[Edu-sig] Teaching Python instead of Java?

[Arthinator@aol.com]

Mathias writes - 
  
>Sorry, it's not about machines at all. It is about formulating
>computational solutions that people read, modify, extend, debug. 
>The machine comes last, and the point of high-level language is 
>to hide the machine. Totally. Period. 

Yes  - the word  machine was in Jeff's sentence

>I question the "loop" part. You want to match the program organization to
>the data organization. Loops hardly ever match, unless all your data are
>linear (natural numbers, lists). XML is all about trees. No sound mind
>should process them with loops. And students should be able to mainpulate
>XML-like stuff after a few weeks or so with total ease. 

But XML wasn't, was it? 

>Why don't you compare Python with a true competitor such as Scheme? 

Good enough advice.  Never heard much other than deep respect for 
Scheme - even when haunting Python lists.

>For a new way to look at the world of high school computing, 
>see 

> http://www.teach-scheme.org/
>http://www.htdp.org/

Been there. Like programming languages.  Agree with
Kirby - the more the better. Don't like programming environments -
for Scheme or Python. I should be your audience - a liberal artist
with an intellectual curiosity about programming.  But the limited
time I have to devote to the pursuit I want use to learn programming,
not orienting myself to an environment.   

What do you recommend to someone who wants to get at Scheme 
with the copy/cut/paste/run  text editor of his choice.

ART