[Edu-sig] Re: The right learning environment

[Kirby Urner]

At 01:36 PM 3/21/2002 -0500, arthur.siegel@rsmi.com wrote:

>Mathias' experience is that there are Python users who
>don't understand the interactive prompt capabilities of
>Python, and rightl;y bemoans the fact.  Don't know who
>those users are or how they got that way.

I don't think Mathias was directly discussing Python
users.  He's a Scheme guy.  The DrScheme shell is
specifically designed for teaching in that it allows
the user to select the level of Scheme -- more features
become available at higher levels.  There's no chance
anyone using his curriculum out of Rice University
would ever miss the fact that PLT Scheme has a shell
mode.  They might miss if it has a non-shell mode, if
they quit to early.

Python users may sometimes miss the Python shell because
they're self-tutoring over the internet and immediately
think in terms of scripts ala programming languages with
no shell mode.  And for many, this remains the focus, as
they're primarily interested in cgi type stuff (for example)
-- the kinds of programs you leave running in the background
while you, the programmer, catch some Zs (daemons).


>I make the more minor point that it is a shame if folks would 
>misunderstand that the interactive promt is something brought
>to them by and available only through IDLE.

I agree.  Equally a shame if they only use the Python shell
in a DOS box, if in Windows, which environment is especially
lame (i.e. no way to get to previously entered commands with
an uparrow, except maybe in Win2000 and above).  Compared
with IDLE, I find the DOS shell to be extremely hard to use.

In GUI world, I'd favor showing a sampling of shells, freeing
students from the idea that there's only one way to go.  So
it should always be IDLE and... never IDLE only.

The Linux text-based shell, in an X-Term window, is more
usable.

Kirby