[Edu-sig] re: VPython followup

[Arthur]

Jason unfortunately I need to comment:

>I've been out of the VPython and idlefork loops, but inspired by the recent
>install problems Art experiencd with latest PyGeo I wrote directly to Bruce
>Sherwood [VPython author].

BRUCE SHERWOOD IS NOT THE VPYTHON AUTHOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That is comment one.

VPython is copywrite, David Scherer.

BUT I CAN CERTAINLY UNDERSTAND HOW THAT CONFUSION COULD ARISE.

>With his permission I quoting from his replies correspondence to me:

>It was not clear how to deal with this issue, but help is on the way. Soon
>the standard IDLE distributed with Python will be replaced by the idlefork
>project, based on David Scherer's original major revision of IDLE as
>distributed with VPython. The new IDLE has a good mechanism for dealing
with
>multiple help files, which was not available in the past. At that point
I'll
>be able to change the VPython installer to avoid the current problem.

Problem?

Is there a problem?

There was a 4 keystroke solution to the problem, since day one.

It was handed to him on a platter.  He opted for the more elegant solution
of CONTINUING TO OVERWRITE PYTHON OWN HELP INDEX
FOR NO DAMN REASON.

He did not see the problem then.  He does still not see the problem.  See
below.


>Currently the VPython installers do not use distutils, because using a
>distutils-based installer is difficult for the novices who are common among
>the VPython users. For example, on Windows you need to bring up a commands
>window and cd to an appropriate directory and invoke Python.... I know from
>actual experience with college students that this is way beyond what works
>in that environment. It is however likely that distutils would be the right
>tool for Linux and Unix installations.

I personally have no patience with hearing about Bruce's  remarks about his
"actual experience with college students". And their ineptitude.  Even after
the division thing was settled, HE WAS STILL GOING TO USE A PATCHED PYTHON
BECAUSE HIS STUDENTS COULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO HANDLE THE IMPORT STATEMENT TO
GET THE NEW BEHAVIOR HE LOBBIED FOR.

I AM CONVINCED IF HE SPENT 20 MINUTES OF CLASS TIME EXPLANING THE UNDERLYING
ISSUE OF THE OLD DIV STATEMENT - NUMERIC TYPING BASIC BASICS - THE ISSUE
WOULD HAVE BEEN TINY. HE FAILED TO PROVIDE HIS STUDENTS WITH ESSENTIAL
INFORMATION AND THEN REPORTED THAT THEY WERE CONFUSED.  CONFUSION IS WHAT
HAPPENS WHEN YOU AREN"T GIVEN PERTINENT AND ESSENTIAL INFORMATION - YOU GET
CONFUSED. MAKE THEM LESS INEPT, AND  STOP TELLING US HOW INPET THEY ARE.

Besides the fact that he is dead wrong about the disutils operations on
Windows.
>And then some further comments today...

"""
A question: What problems have there actually been with this? I have heard
complaints that VPython isn't doing the right thing, but these complaints
seem rather theoretical, in that I don't know in what way anyone has
actually been significantly inconvenienced concerning the help situation.
"""

VINTAGE BRUCE, is all I can say.

Art
























It seems to be Guido's intent that idlefork replace the standard idle with
the final release of Python 2.3. If the new idlefork works for VPython, we
would start using it right away. Unfortunately there are no guarantees,
because at the moment VPython does NOT work with the new idlefork. You can't
quit a VPython program as you could with the original idlefork.
"""

If any of you can help this along please do..
Seems like we are all very close to having happy re-solution now.

thanks
./Jason
______________________________________________
Jason Cunliffe [NOMADICS: Director art+design]
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