From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 8 18:23:17 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:23:17 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] re: Python as a first-year programming language In-Reply-To: <200304280929.20979.urnerk@qwest.net> References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102141.01e42868@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 09:29 AM 4/28/2003 -0700, Kirby Urner wrote: > > - explanations of how it impacts later traditional computer science > > courses, such as data structures and algorithms, operating systems, > > graphics, etc.; there's FUD among some that teaching students a "weird" > > language hurts them in later courses > > > > Toby > >Python is hardly weird. It's rather straightforward and conservative, which >is one of the things people like about it. An agile language, high level and >object oriented. Weirder (but still fine languages, worthy of study) would >be Haskell, Ocaml, Rebol and J. Yet weird languages *are* used in the >business community. J for example: lots of Wall Street types use it for >financial analysis, along with it's older brother, APL. Just found this apropos quote, in Aahz sig: "In many ways, it's a dull language, borrowing solid old concepts from many other languages & styles: boring syntax, unsurprising semantics, few automatic coercions, etc etc. But that's one of the things I like about it." --Tim Peters on Python, 16 Sep 93 Kirby From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 8 18:45:18 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 10:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: <1051703506.17348.9.camel@mdeicaza> References: <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> So I went to Victoria, Canada this weekend to hang with some of the Ploners, including Alan Runyaga, the principal Python coder behind this intricate extrapolation of Zope and CMF (Limi is more responsible for the pleasing look, thanks to his intimate knowledge of CSS (style sheets for XHTML)). I don't know what Vidar's role has been exactly (the third name that appears at the bottom of the Plone Welcome page). Andy McKay was there -- a major player in Zope world, creator of the ZopeZen site, which is undergoing a major overhaul right now, having been slain by a virus. One thing that impressed me about Alan is that he's not a fanatic or at all defensive about Plone, even though he works on it all the time. He has distance and perspective, coming from a strong background in computer science with plenty of C++ and Java and stuff like that. At one point over food he said "I hate programming for the web" (funny, coming from a guy who does this full time) -- meaning it's always bound to be broken in some way, like some web browser is going to render a page differently or mess up in some way. There was a lot of talk about Zope 3, as well as 2.7. We had a big TV at our hosts' home (Jim Roepcke and his wife Cheryl) and saw some interesting demos, e.g. of staging in Plone (three synched versions, letting developers move stuff to production in steps), and ZEO, a Zope Corp utility allowing many real time clients to communicate with the same ZODB on the back end. This was billed as a 'Plone Sprint' meaning we were supposed to get some work done, and given the level of sophistication among the attenders (I was a relative newbie for sure), work really did get done. Improvements to news syndication within Plone, a group folder, debugging against CMF 1.4 beta, and improvements to the documentation, were all accomplished, with some time left over for socializing and multi-user Halo on Jim's Xbox (connected to that large TV). Jonaugustine traveled the farthest to be there -- all the way from Hawaii. The state of Hawaii's intranet is moving to Plone these days. I'm heading down to Powell's Technical today, realizing I need to own a copy of The Zope Bible, which gets more technical than some of the others, and shows how to interact directly with the ZODB (Zope object database) from within the Python shell. That's the kind of low level stuff I need a better handle on. Kirby From pobrien@orbtech.com Thu May 8 19:30:05 2003 From: pobrien@orbtech.com (Patrick K. O'Brien) Date: 08 May 2003 13:30:05 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> References: <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> Message-ID: "Kirby Urner" writes: > I'm heading down to Powell's Technical today, realizing I need to own > a copy of The Zope Bible, which gets more technical than some of the > others, and shows how to interact directly with the ZODB (Zope object > database) from within the Python shell. That's the kind of low level > stuff I need a better handle on. I haven't done it in a while, but you should be able to navigate a ZODB using PyCrust, which gives you autocompletion and the namespace tree view, both of which make it much easier to figure out what exactly is in a ZODB database. -- Patrick K. O'Brien Orbtech http://www.orbtech.com/web/pobrien ----------------------------------------------- "Your source for Python programming expertise." ----------------------------------------------- From delza@blastradius.com Thu May 8 23:22:03 2003 From: delza@blastradius.com (Dethe Elza) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:22:03 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> Message-ID: <7E7C7110-81A3-11D7-B124-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Kirby, Thanks for the report on the Plone sprint, that sounds like fun. I wish I'd known you were going to be in BC, I'd have tried to meet up with you. I work in Vancouver (will be living there too, after next week). Maybe next time. Anyone coming to Vancouver for SVG Open in July? http://www.svgopen.org/ --Dethe From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 8 23:27:44 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:27:44 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: <7E7C7110-81A3-11D7-B124-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508152405.01ea07d0@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 03:22 PM 5/8/2003 -0700, Dethe Elza wrote: >Kirby, > >Thanks for the report on the Plone sprint, that sounds like fun. I wish >I'd known you were going to be in BC, I'd have tried to meet up with >you. I work in Vancouver (will be living there too, after next >week). Maybe next time. Dang! Wish I'd known you were there too. The sprint was advertised at www.plone.org and anyone could sign up through the wiki -- but there're just too many websites to track. I didn't make it to Vancouver proper, but I know it's a beautiful city. You're lucky to be living there. >Anyone coming to Vancouver for SVG Open in July? Hey, looks like fun. Right after OSCON in Portland. But the only way I can really afford these conferences is to speak at 'em (and hence gain admittance). I'm afraid my SVG is not up to snuff yet. >http://www.svgopen.org/ > >--Dethe > From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 8 23:31:22 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 15:31:22 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> <200304300452.h3U4qFGW008550@holycow.sandiego.edu> <5.2.0.9.0.20030508102348.01d63990@pop.ptld.qwest.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508152842.01dc9dd8@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 01:30 PM 5/8/2003 -0500, Patrick K. O'Brien wrote: >I haven't done it in a while, but you should be able to navigate a >ZODB using PyCrust, which gives you autocompletion and the namespace >tree view, both of which make it much easier to figure out what >exactly is in a ZODB database. As I recall, this feature of PyCrust was actually mentioned appreciatively, by either Alan or Andy as I recall. Kevin Altis came by my house a few weeks ago and helped me get PythonCard up and running, inside of which PyCrust is a feature. I now boot into PythonCard sometimes, and will do so some more when I get deeper into the Zope Bible stuff (just got my copy today -- I know a lot of what's in it already, but felt a clear need for this tome in particular). Kirby From altis@semi-retired.com Fri May 9 01:20:13 2003 From: altis@semi-retired.com (Kevin Altis) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 17:20:13 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] fwd: Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science Message-ID: I don't think this has been mentioned on the list, so... """ Python Programming: An Introduction to Computer Science by John Zelle This is a textbook for a "traditional" introduction to computer science course (CS1) using Python. It will be officially published by Franklin, Beedle and Associates (probably Jan. 2004). A pre-publication form of the book will be available for fall classes. You can find an electronic version of the draft manuscript by following this link. """ http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python/ Someone already added it to the book list wiki page http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/IntroductoryBooks ka --- Kevin Altis altis@semi-retired.com http://altis.pycs.net/ http://www.pythoncard.org/ From tom_hoffman@mac.com Fri May 9 02:45:45 2003 From: tom_hoffman@mac.com (tom_hoffman@mac.com) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 21:45:45 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Report from the field In-Reply-To: <7E7C7110-81A3-11D7-B124-0003939B59E8@blastradius.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, May 8, 2003, at 06:22 PM, Dethe Elza wrote: > Kirby, > > Thanks for the report on the Plone sprint, that sounds like fun. I > wish I'd known you were going to be in BC, I'd have tried to meet up > with you. I work in Vancouver (will be living there too, after next > week). Maybe next time. > If anyone is going to OSCOM or otherwise in the Cambridge, MA area, I just posted a "Plone in Schools" birds of a feather meeting at the conference on Thursday, May 29 at 5:15 at John Harvard's Brew House. http://conferences.oscom.org/cambridge/may_2003/boffer/ view_entry.php?id=36&area=8&day=29&month=5&year=2003 Tom Hoffman http://tuttlesvc.org From aahz@pythoncraft.com Fri May 9 03:13:11 2003 From: aahz@pythoncraft.com (Aahz) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 22:13:11 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] FWD: Re: Python/CS1 Message-ID: <20030509021311.GA19501@panix.com> FYI (Please let me know if I forwarded this in error.) ----- Forwarded message from John Zelle ----- > Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:58:09 -0500 > From: John Zelle > To: webmaster@python.org > Subject: Re: Python/CS1 > > Hello, > > Sure, I would be happy to have the manuscript of my book linked to the > Python page. This URL is a page that contains some advocacy for Python > in CS education, as well as a PDF version of the manuscript: > http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python > > My textbook is being published by Franklin, Beedle and Associates and > should be officially out in January. There will also be some sort of > pre-publication version available for folks that may want to use it as a > textbook in the fall. > > Cheers, > > --John Zelle > > ps. I will also check out the Python marketing list you mentioned. > > > Aahz wrote: > > >Howdy, > > > >I'm one of the webmasters at python.org; someone recently posted a link > >to your book on comp.lang.python. Would you be interested in having us > >post a link on python.org? If yes, please send e-mail to > >webmaster@python.org (I've already set Reply-To: for your convenience). > > > >I'm also part of a group of people trying to boost Python's popularity. > >If you'd like to help with that effort (particularly from the standpoint > >of encouraging Python's use in education), you might want to join the > >Marketing Python list at > >http://wingide.com/mailman/listinfo/marketing-python > >At the very least, please consider posting a brief description of how > >you chose Python for your CS1 classes to marketing-python@wingide.com > > > > > > -- > John M. Zelle, Ph.D. | Wartburg College > Associate Prof. of CS | Dept. Math/CS/Physics > zelle@wartburg.edu | Waverly, Iowa > ----- End forwarded message ----- From urnerk@qwest.net Fri May 9 04:38:23 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 08 May 2003 20:38:23 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] FWD: Re: Python/CS1 In-Reply-To: <20030509021311.GA19501@panix.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030508203117.011c9de0@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 10:13 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, Aahz wrote: >FYI > >(Please let me know if I forwarded this in error.) I'll update http://www.python.org/sigs/edu-sig/ with a link to http://mcsp.wartburg.edu/zelle/python -- just need to fiddle with all that SSH1/2 & cvs jazz again :-D. Kirby PS: Aahz, I quoted your Tim Peters quote from you sig a few posts back "In many ways, it's a dull language..." etc. From t.metz@cgiar.org Tue May 13 15:32:35 2003 From: t.metz@cgiar.org (Metz, Thomas (IPGRI - Rome)) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 07:32:35 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training Message-ID: <58D83A8704207E44A1A9D1B410CFCA510C6AB6@ipgrihq9> I am on the lookout for a simple but complete GUI database application (Python, wxPython, MySQL) that can be used for self-study and training. I have seen most of the necessary elements in textbooks, HowTo's, etc., but I think something like a simple collection management database (stamps, videos, cooking recipes, etc.) would be a very good starting point for people who are new to programming and need to get an overview of how GUI, database, and programming logic fit together. In addition to self-study, I would like to use such a system as the starting point for my own entry into Python, which so far has been mainly restricted to reading. Is there anyone who knows about such a system, or would make such a system available? Thomas From urnerk@qwest.net Tue May 13 16:03:31 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 08:03:31 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training In-Reply-To: <58D83A8704207E44A1A9D1B410CFCA510C6AB6@ipgrihq9> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030513075055.01d39388@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 07:32 AM 5/13/2003 -0700, you wrote: >Is there anyone who knows about such a system, or would make such a system >available? > >Thomas Hi Thomas -- I don't know of such a setup to offer. However, as one who is learning more about using Python with both MySQL and PostgreSQL, as well as wxPython, I'd welcome news of what you find out. For me, the most useful thing is to write simple Python methods to create tables and manage inserting, updating, deleting and selecting. The wxPython GUI would come later, after the basic functionality is in place. I'm currently using PostgreSQL to manage a list of Python-related URLs, categorized by key words (one or more). Instead of wxPython, I'm currently using Plone for a front end (making data management doable through a web browser). For wxPython development, you might want to check out PythonCard, which provides a framework for wxPython applications, with a lot of pre-built functionality. Kirby FYI, here's a basic script in Python designed to create the guts of my database of Python-related URLs. This is for PostgreSQL, but I'm sure the MySQL script would look very similar (MySQL uses AUTOINCREMENT in place of sequences etc.). PostgreSQL runs in cygwin under Windows, though a native Windows version is in the pipeline. Development in Linux would be easier. =================== import sys from pg import DB conn = DB('test') # this is a "start from the beginning" type script, i.e. if any objects # are already in the database, they're deleted and recreated from scratch # (meaning we have to check first -- to see if they need to be DROPped). mytables = conn.query(""" SELECT relname FROM pg_stat_user_tables """).getresult() mytables = [item[0] for item in mytables] myseqs = conn.query(""" SELECT relname FROM pg_statio_user_sequences """).getresult() myseqs = [item[0] for item in myseqs] if "edulinks_seq" in myseqs: conn.query("DROP SEQUENCE edulinks_seq") conn.query(""" CREATE SEQUENCE edulinks_seq """) if "categories_seq" in myseqs: conn.query("DROP SEQUENCE categories_seq") conn.query(""" CREATE SEQUENCE categories_seq """) if "edulinks" in mytables: conn.query("DROP TABLE edulinks CASCADE") conn.query(""" CREATE TABLE edulinks ( id INTEGER DEFAULT nextval('edulinks_seq'), url VARCHAR(95), descript VARCHAR(101), notes TEXT, status INT2, PRIMARY KEY(id) )""") if "categories" in mytables: conn.query("DROP TABLE categories CASCADE") conn.query(""" CREATE TABLE categories ( catid INTEGER DEFAULT nextval('categories_seq') PRIMARY KEY, category VARCHAR(30) )""") if "edusort" in mytables: conn.query("DROP TABLE edusort CASCADE") conn.query(""" CREATE TABLE edusort ( id INTEGER REFERENCES edulinks ON UPDATE CASCADE ON DELETE CASCADE, catid INTEGER REFERENCES categories ON UPDATE CASCADE ON DELETE CASCADE )""") # populate tables with data from external text files conn.query("COPY edulinks FROM '/cygdrive/d/cygwin/home/urnerk/pgedulinks.txt' DELIMITERS '|'") conn.query("COPY categories FROM '/cygdrive/d/cygwin/home/urnerk/pgcategories.txt' DELIMITERS '|'") conn.query("COPY edusort FROM '/cygdrive/d/cygwin/home/urnerk/pgedusort.txt' DELIMITERS '|'") # a liberal access policy - :-D conn.query("GRANT ALL ON edulinks TO PUBLIC") conn.query("GRANT ALL ON categories TO PUBLIC") conn.query("GRANT ALL ON edusort TO PUBLIC") conn.close() From wilson@visi.com Tue May 13 16:52:34 2003 From: wilson@visi.com (Tim Wilson) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 10:52:34 -0500 Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: Python_Learner In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200305131052.34154.wilson@visi.com> Hi everyone, Tsering sent this to me as edu-sig-owner. Hopefully we can be of service. -Tim On Sunday 04 May 2003 21:45, Tsering Phuntsok wrote: > To > the Head of the organisation > i am a lover of python programming and i am computer faculty in a Tibetan > School Under Exile-Gov of Tibet,in India. i would like to teach this > programming in my school and i am not much familiar with it, so i need a > help from yours reputed organisation... hope to hear from you soon > yours faithfully > Tsering Phuntsok -- Tim Wilson Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA Science teacher, Linux fan, Zope developer, Grad. student, Daddy mailto:wilson@visi.com | http://qwerk.org/ | public key: 0x8C0F8813 From hancock@anansispaceworks.com Tue May 13 17:15:24 2003 From: hancock@anansispaceworks.com (Terry Hancock) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 09:15:24 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030513075055.01d39388@pop.ptld.qwest.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030513075055.01d39388@pop.ptld.qwest.net> Message-ID: On Tuesday 13 May 2003 08:03 am, Kirby Urner wrote: > I don't know of such a setup to offer. However, as one who is learning more > about using Python with both MySQL and PostgreSQL, as well as wxPython, I'd > welcome news of what you find out. IMHO, the *easiest* interface to use with SQL (at least with MySQL) is the "ZSQL" built into Zope. I went from that to using the DB APIs in the standard library, and it was kind of a block. I'm sure there's an advantage to doing it that way (it's probably more explicit), but for getting started, I think the ZSQL/DTML approach is awfully nice. So, I wonder if there's any way to use it outside of Zope? Otherwise, you're kind of stuck with web applications. Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com From jhrsn@pitt.edu Tue May 13 20:50:23 2003 From: jhrsn@pitt.edu (Jim Harrison) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 15:50:23 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training In-Reply-To: <58D83A8704207E44A1A9D1B410CFCA510C6AB6@ipgrihq9> Message-ID: on 5/13/03 10:32 AM, Metz, Thomas (IPGRI - Rome) at t.metz@cgiar.org wrote: > I am on the lookout for a simple but complete GUI database application... Well, it's not really "complete," but there is a very simple Tkinter-based GUI for maintaining a MySQL phone list in Chris Meyers's Python for Fun tutorial at ibiblio: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/py4fun/ The python code for the interface is at: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/py4fun/gui/sqlPhone.py I think this would be straightforward to extend to the kinds of collections you mention, and it has the advantage that it comes with a tutorial. Note that the tutorial covers both wxPython and Tkinter as GUI construction tools, but the demo code uses Tkinter. Hope this helps, Jim Harrison Univ. of Pittsburgh From Jason Cunliffe" Message-ID: <002d01c319b3$727338a0$6501a8c0@vaio> > I am on the lookout for a simple but complete GUI database application > (Python, wxPython, MySQL) that can be used for self-study and training. I > have seen most of the necessary elements in textbooks, HowTo's, etc., but I > think something like a simple collection management database (stamps, > videos, cooking recipes, etc.) would be a very good starting point for > people who are new to programming and need to get an overview of how GUI, > database, and programming logic fit together. hmm... Zope may be an excellent choice: http://zope.org Although Zope is deep and complex, it can be used out-of-the-box very quickly and easily. You can grow into it and develop custom features, or take it at face value, learn from existing modules and adapt them. It is notable for and intense and very responsive community and a big library of plugins. Zope is an object 'publishing' system written in Python which includes built in persistent object database called ZODB, and several internet servers HTTP, FTP, WEBDAV etc.. There are modules and interfaces for BerkeleyDB, MySQL, and more. Most of these also have standalone libraries including Zope's own ZODB which can be run directly with or without Zope: http://www.amk.ca/zodb/zodb-zeo.html http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Articles/ZODB1 You can run Zope on many platforms. Code/data/sites or parts of them can be imported and exported as simple .zexp cross-platform binary files. This means you can test and develop locally on a PC or laptop, but just as easily across a LAN or the Internet. You can script and access Zope in many ways, but typically you use a web-browser with an GUI interface featuring simple trees and input forms. A Zope 'site' is by default a web site whose contents are maintained in a ZODB [Zope Object Data Base]. Though it my include modules to access external databases, or even anything in the file system :-) Plus there is always FTP access available to you, so that any FTP client can access the ZODB as well as ancillary scripts and files. TIP: Among many developer tools for Zope, I highly recommend Jerome Alet's ZShell, which uses a familiar shell metaphor. This helps one bypass many mouse clicks or diving too deeply into Zope's own syntax. It can be overwhelming, especially when you just want to focus on the problem, not the underlying system. ZShell is also a great way to 'learn' Zope. http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/ http://www.librelogiciel.com/software/ZShell/action_Presentation Zope handles well some nasty problems of database + GUI development. Thanks to its web interface, it is easier to explore you own look'n'feel design GUI issues. It has built-in search, and versioning which is rather remarkable -- multiple levels of undo for the whole damn thing! Warning: Zope is addictive and may cause sleep deprivation. It may be overkill for what you want. But remember, just because all those features are there, you don't have to use them. You may really want to learn more about low-level database programming, or perhaps you are more interested the USE and interface issues. Either way, Zope provides an incredible laboratory which can be installed and running in 15 minutes :-) good luck ! Jason From urnerk@qwest.net Wed May 14 15:42:16 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 07:42:16 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030513075055.01d39388@pop.ptld.qwest.net> References: <58D83A8704207E44A1A9D1B410CFCA510C6AB6@ipgrihq9> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030514074038.01f2cf00@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 08:03 AM 5/13/2003 -0700, Kirby Urner wrote: >I'm currently using PostgreSQL to manage a list of Python-related URLs, >categorized by key words (one or more). Instead of wxPython, I'm currently >using Plone for a front end (making data management doable through a web >browser). Just to clarify, this Zope which people are exulting about is what Plone is using as well, Plone being a content management system on top of Zope. http://www.plone.org It has its own installers, which include Zope (which includes yet another copy of Python). Kirby From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 15 17:06:05 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 09:06:05 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Simple Python database application for self-study and training In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030514074038.01f2cf00@pop.ptld.qwest.net> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030513075055.01d39388@pop.ptld.qwest.net> <58D83A8704207E44A1A9D1B410CFCA510C6AB6@ipgrihq9> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030515085827.01141be0@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 07:42 AM 5/14/2003 -0700, you wrote: >At 08:03 AM 5/13/2003 -0700, Kirby Urner wrote: > >>I'm currently using PostgreSQL to manage a list of Python-related URLs, >>categorized by key words (one or more). Instead of wxPython, I'm currently >>using Plone for a front end (making data management doable through a web >>browser). > >Just to clarify, this Zope which people are exulting about is what >Plone is using as well, Plone being a content management system on >top of Zope. http://www.plone.org It has its own installers, which >include Zope (which includes yet another copy of Python). > >Kirby Just to further clarify, Plone is a content management system (CMS) built using the content management *framework* provided the Zope folks and known as the Zope CMF. Plone folks work hard to incorporate the latest improvements to the CMF e.g. at the recent sprint in Victoria, there was some attention given to incorporating the lastest CMF 1.4beta -- Plone 1.2 will use CMF 1.4 as its basis. If you pop the Welcome page on a Plone site, you'll likely find the following comment embedded in the HTML: ============= Python.
Plone is Copyright © 2000-2003 by Alexander Limi, Alan Runyan, Vidar Andersen. ============= Kirby From urnerk@qwest.net Thu May 15 18:02:42 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:02:42 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] FWD: Re: Python/CS1 In-Reply-To: <20030509021311.GA19501@panix.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030515100118.01e09c50@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 10:13 PM 5/8/2003 -0400, you wrote: >FYI > >(Please let me know if I forwarded this in error.) > >----- Forwarded message from John Zelle ----- > > Date: Wed, 07 May 2003 10:58:09 -0500 > > From: John Zelle > > To: webmaster@python.org > > Subject: Re: Python/CS1 > > OK, edu-sig page updated with a link to Dr. John Zelle's web page. I'll send him an email notifying him of the link. Kirby From ajsiegel@optonline.net Mon May 19 14:19:55 2003 From: ajsiegel@optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:19:55 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] the edu-sig page Message-ID: <00fc01c31e09$57737830$0c02a8c0@Arts> I've noticed that Kirby seems to have undertaken the webmaster role for the edu-sig page. I also understand that there is some movement toward a basic revamping of the python.org pages. All, is my understanding, related to the promoting Python charge. Is discussion of possiblities for a revamped edu-sig page fair game for discussion? My view, in a nutshell, is a refocus, to at least better highlight Python's role at the University level - in CS, introductory programming for Science majors, the study of algorythmics, etc. The activity in these realms is, at this list indicates, substantial - though one gets very little hint of it at the edu-sig page. The CP4E, and programming for children aspect, should be an addendum, rather than a focus, IMO. In the end, the edu-sig page should be a resource to which someone hoping to introduce at the University level, might send doubtful colleagues for information and reinforcement. My view is that the current edu-sig page is in fact counterproudctive in this respect - giving a less than serious view of Python's potential role in education. ART From urnerk@qwest.net Mon May 19 17:49:12 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:49:12 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] the edu-sig page In-Reply-To: <00fc01c31e09$57737830$0c02a8c0@Arts> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030519094513.01ef9300@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 09:19 AM 5/19/2003 -0400, you wrote: >My view is that the current edu-sig page is in fact counterproudctive in >this respect - giving a less than serious view of Python's potential role in >education. > >ART What do you think of the idea of adding a 2nd page that's mainly just a long list of links, including to whatever CS courses we might find. A prototype would be this page: http://www.porpig.org/Members/pdx4d/links.html I'm talking about from astrophysics on down, and I might suggest dropping the utilities section, as they're so many of them -- although tracking CS pages might be just as difficult. Somewhere I'd have to use a word like "sampling". Kirby From tjd@sfu.ca Mon May 19 19:45:23 2003 From: tjd@sfu.ca (Toby Donaldson) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:45:23 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] RE: the edu-sig page In-Reply-To: <20030519160004.6607.69128.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: > Is discussion of possiblities for a revamped edu-sig page fair game for > discussion? > > My view, in a nutshell, is a refocus, to at least better > highlight Python's > role at the University level - in CS, introductory programming for Science > majors, the study of algorythmics, etc. > > The activity in these realms is, at this list indicates, substantial - > though one gets very little hint of it at the edu-sig page. > > The CP4E, and programming for children aspect, should be an > addendum, rather > than a focus, IMO. > > In the end, the edu-sig page should be a resource to which > someone hoping to > introduce at the University level, might send doubtful colleagues for > information and reinforcement. > > My view is that the current edu-sig page is in fact counterproudctive in > this respect - giving a less than serious view of Python's > potential role in > education. I don't know if focusing on pre-university education is counterproductive, but it would be helpful to have educational information spanning the spectrum of learning. I think it's useful to distinguish between two kinds of university-level programming: - computer science students - everyone else I think the impact will be more significant if the focus is on "everyone else". This includes students in the sciences, arts, and humanities. Toby From ajsiegel@optonline.net Tue May 20 01:17:36 2003 From: ajsiegel@optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 20:17:36 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] re: edu-sig pages Message-ID: <000501c31e65$3b5285e0$0c02a8c0@Arts> Toby writes - >I don't know if focusing on pre-university education is counterproductive, >but it would be helpful to have educational information spanning the >spectrum of learning. I am certainly not taking a position that Python is not potentially useful at the pre-University level. But as a practical matter, at that level, there are few educators with enough discretion in establishing curriculum that would allow them to find a place for Python. There is more freedom at the higher education level, and as the list Kirby is compiling seems to indicate, that is where there is substantial and diverse activity in respect to the use of Python. Seems to me the edu-sig page should better reflect that reality. >I think it's useful to distinguish between two kinds of university-level >programming: > - computer science students > - everyone else >I think the impact will be more significant if the focus is on "everyone >else". This includes students in the sciences, arts, and humanities. As a non-CS type myself, I tend to agree. The approach I would recommend is highlighting of "success stories" upfront. But those would not be stories related directly to the use of Python in the classroom. Rather, it would highlight the real world use of Python in problemsolving, focused on activities that have an academic aspect or flavor. e.g. The development of Numeric at Lawrence Livermore and its utilization there. Other examples of the use of Python at major research facilities - I know there are a number of such examples. In AI research and study. And such like. Art From arkamir@softhome.net Tue May 20 01:25:17 2003 From: arkamir@softhome.net (Conrad Koziol) Date: 19 May 2003 17:25:17 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] Creating a tutorial Message-ID: <1053390316.4371.10.camel@quercus.home.net> Hey I was wondering ig you guys have a tutorial for making web forums in python and if you could point me to it From inxdr@yahoo.com.au Tue May 20 09:50:07 2003 From: inxdr@yahoo.com.au (Darren Payne) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:50:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Edu-sig] Re: Edu-sig digest, Vol 1 #689 - 1 msg In-Reply-To: <20030519160004.6607.69128.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <20030520085007.24956.qmail@web11203.mail.yahoo.com> I tend to agree with Arthur in most respects. However, being a high school teache, I would like to see significant resources for high school level study. For me this crosses over into the university level since I work at a slective or magnet school (as most Americans would know them). In addition, I would like to see resources for using PyGame. I have found this is highly motivating for the younger to middle high school student. Plus, for those students who find programming diffifult, I have found they put in a heck more effort when PyGame is involved. --- edu-sig-request@python.org wrote: > Send Edu-sig mailing list submissions to > edu-sig@python.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, > visit > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > or, via email, send a message with subject or body > 'help' to > edu-sig-request@python.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > edu-sig-admin@python.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it > is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Edu-sig digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. the edu-sig page (Arthur) > > --__--__-- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 09:19:55 -0400 > From: Arthur > To: edu-sig@python.org > Subject: [Edu-sig] the edu-sig page > > I've noticed that Kirby seems to have undertaken the > webmaster role for the > edu-sig page. > > I also understand that there is some movement toward > a basic revamping of > the python.org pages. > > All, is my understanding, related to the promoting > Python charge. > > Is discussion of possiblities for a revamped edu-sig > page fair game for > discussion? > > My view, in a nutshell, is a refocus, to at least > better highlight Python's > role at the University level - in CS, introductory > programming for Science > majors, the study of algorythmics, etc. > > The activity in these realms is, at this list > indicates, substantial - > though one gets very little hint of it at the > edu-sig page. > > The CP4E, and programming for children aspect, > should be an addendum, rather > than a focus, IMO. > > In the end, the edu-sig page should be a resource to > which someone hoping to > introduce at the University level, might send > doubtful colleagues for > information and reinforcement. > > My view is that the current edu-sig page is in fact > counterproudctive in > this respect - giving a less than serious view of > Python's potential role in > education. > > ART > > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > Edu-sig mailing list > Edu-sig@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig > > > End of Edu-sig Digest ===== regards Darren Payne Hurlstone Agricultural High School Ph: 9829 9222 Fax: 98292026 email: computing@hurlstone.com.au __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. http://search.yahoo.com From rlatimer@tjhsst.edu Tue May 20 13:58:11 2003 From: rlatimer@tjhsst.edu (Randy Latimer) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Help - Thanks Message-ID: One of my students is working on a Python + Tkinter in order to construct a "Drawing" program. class base - constructs the entire window for her drawing interface class panel - constructs a vertical tool bar on the left side of the interface. Functions will exist for Circle, Square, Triangle, Color, Rotate, Erase, Pen class easel - constructs the drawing portion of the window. Here's the problem: She's defining a a DrawCircle function in class easel (the drawing canvas) The button for "Circle" is defined in the "panel" - tool bar. She's trying to call the DrawCircle function when she left clicks on the Circle button. But nothing happens now when the Circel button is pressed. Thanks for any advice out there - Randy Latimer, rlatimer@tjhsst.edu Here's the program, "Vers3.py" from Tkinter import * import sys #class of the geometric figures. Base is the frame it's called in class base(Frame): def __init__(self, parent=None): Frame.__init__(self, parent) self.pack() self.Makebase() def Makebase(self): panel(self).pack(side=LEFT) easel(self).pack(side=RIGHT) class panel(Frame): def __init__(self, parent=Frame, **config): Frame.__init__(self, parent, config) MyCanvas = Canvas() MyEasel = easel(MyCanvas) self.pack(side = TOP, fill = BOTH) self.MakeGUI(MyEasel,MyCanvas) def MakeGUI(self,MyEasel,MyCanvas): Circle = Button (self,text = "Circle") #creates the #button on the root frame Circle.pack(side = TOP,fill = X, anchor = N) #'packs' the button, putting it on the frame and # specifying resizing options Circle.bind('', self.circle(self, MyEasel, MyCanvas)) # registers mouse event and sends it to the circle() # function Square = Button (self, text = "Square") Square.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Square.bind('', self.square) Triangle = Button (self, text = "Triangle") Triangle.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Triangle.bind('', self.triangle) Color = Button (self, text = "Color") Color.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Color.bind('', self.color) Rotate = Button (self, text = "Rotate") Rotate.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Rotate.bind('', self.rotate) Erase = Button (self, text = "Erase") Erase.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Erase.bind('', self.erase) Pen = Button (self, text = "Pen") Pen.pack(side = TOP, fill = X, anchor = N) Pen.bind('', self.pen) def circle(self, event, MyEasel, MyCanvas): MyEasel.DrawCircle(MyCanvas) #print "eventually I'll draw a circle but for now # I just quit" #import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def square(self, event): print "eventually I'll draw a square but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def triangle(self, event): print "eventually I'll draw a triangle but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def color(self, event): print "eventually I'll change colors but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def rotate(self, event): print "eventually I'll rotate objects but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def erase(self, event): print "eventually I'll erase but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows def pen(self, event): print "eventually I'll draw with a pen but for now I just quit" import sys; sys.exit() #kills windows class easel(Canvas): def __init__(self, parent=Frame, **config): Canvas.__init__(self, parent, config) self.pack(side = TOP, fill = BOTH, expand = YES) canvas = Canvas(self, width = 500, height=200, bg = 'white') canvas.config(scrollregion =(0,0,500,2000)) sbar = Scrollbar(self) sbar.config(command = canvas.yview) canvas.config(yscrollcommand=sbar.set) sbar.pack(side = RIGHT, fill=Y) canvas.pack(side = RIGHT, expand = YES, fill = BOTH) self.canvas = canvas def DrawCircle(self, canvas): canvas.create_oval(10,20,200,200,width=2,fill="blue") if __name__ == '__main__': base().mainloop() From dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu Tue May 20 17:25:14 2003 From: dyoo@hkn.eecs.berkeley.edu (Danny Yoo) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Edu-sig] Python Help - Thanks [callbacks] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 20 May 2003, Randy Latimer wrote: > Here's the problem: > She's defining a a DrawCircle function in class easel (the drawing > canvas) > The button for "Circle" is defined in the "panel" - tool bar. > She's trying to call the DrawCircle function when she left clicks > on the Circle button. > But nothing happens now when the Circel button is pressed. Hi Randy, A valuable part of programming is knowing what to investigate when a program fails. Since nothing's happening when the circle button is pressed, we may want to look at the particular code that binds the button to the DrawCircle function: there might be something there that we need to look at. The binding code is defined in the MakeGUI() method of the panel: ### def MakeGUI(self,MyEasel,MyCanvas): Circle = Button (self,text = "Circle") Circle.pack(side = TOP,fill = X, anchor = N) Circle.bind('', self.circle(self, MyEasel, MyCanvas)) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ### Ah! This bit of code looks suspicious. There are a few things wacky with it The expression, self.circle(self, MyEasel, MyCanvas) calls the method circle() --- but isn't it a bit premature to call it now, during the MakeGUI initialization? Also, 'self' is already an implicit first argument in a method call, so the first argument to this call looks redundant. Looking at the self.circle definition, I'm assuming that you meant to send over the event object? Side note: it seems a little silly to pass MyEasel and MyCanvas around everywhere; wouldn't it be better to make them attributes of our object? Sorry, I'm getting backtracked. *grin* The problem appears to be a confusion on how callbacks work. The code desires to bind to a function that, when called, will itself call self.circle(): ### def bringUpCircle(event): self.circle(MyEasel, MyCanvas) ### And since it's perfectly ok to define internal functions in a method, we can fix the binding bug by doing something like this: ### def MakeGUI(self,MyEasel,MyCanvas): Circle = Button (self,text = "Circle") Circle.pack(side = TOP,fill = X, anchor = N) def bringUpCircle(event): self.circle(event, MyEasel, MyCanvas) Circle.bind('', bringUpCircle) ### For more information, see: http://www.pythonware.com/library/tkinter/introduction/events-and-bindings.htm Good luck to you! From Mohamed.Chaitou@rp.lip6.fr Tue May 27 11:51:43 2003 From: Mohamed.Chaitou@rp.lip6.fr (Mohamad CHAITOU) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:51:43 +0200 Subject: [Edu-sig] a Help for MATE algorithm... Message-ID: <002201c3243d$f62041e0$2c3de384@lip6.fr> This is a multi-part message in MIME format... ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C3244E.B9A47E00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, I need some help concerning the MATE algorithm, if anybody can help me and = send me some simulation code for this algorithm (I need to compare its perf= ormance with the OpIATE algorithm) Thanks in advance ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C3244E.B9A47E00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hi All, I need some help concerning the M= ATE algorithm, if=20 anybody can help me and send me some simulation code for this algorithm (I = need=20 to compare its performance with the OpIATE algorithm) Thanks in advance ------=_NextPart_000_001F_01C3244E.B9A47E00-- From ajsiegel@optonline.net Tue May 27 15:18:12 2003 From: ajsiegel@optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:18:12 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] the edu-sig page, again Message-ID: <000e01c3245a$cf000f10$0c02a8c0@Arts> >From this morning's python-list: """ Date: 26 May 2003 22:32:57 -0700 From: pythonguy@Hotpop.com (Anand Pillai) Subject: Re: State of Python You might be right. When I talked about bookstores, I did not include virtual bookstores. The best way to popularise a language is to teach it in undergrad courses in engineering/science colleges. It is not happening with python in India. From IIT Madras where I graduated, they teach C/Delphi in introductory computer science courses. Python seems to be making some inroads in colleges teaching bioinformatics, as a competitor to Perl. """ The assertion that "the best way to popularise a language is to teach it in undergrad courses in enigineering/science" has, to me, 3 implications. 1) Python is in good stead. It is my feeling that it is in exactly this realm where Python is likely to shine. I say "is likely to" because I have not personally attended such a course. I am confident it does or/and could, in practice. 2) For those who see Python's popularization as a mission, concentration of efforts in this area should have clear and tangible effect, and therefore some priority. 3) It would be sensible, in connection with efforts toward the popularization of Python, for python.org to give focus to the promotion of such activities - which makes the content of the edu-sig page - for those who are interested in the popularization of Python - an important resource. Which is why I am continue to try to instigate some discussion and some activity in the rethinking of the design and content of the edu-sig page. It's actually a quite significant piece of business, it seems to me - that is at least for those interested in the popularization of Python. Art From urnerk@qwest.net Tue May 27 20:14:17 2003 From: urnerk@qwest.net (Kirby Urner) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:14:17 -0700 Subject: [Edu-sig] the edu-sig page, again In-Reply-To: <000e01c3245a$cf000f10$0c02a8c0@Arts> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030527121117.01e838b0@pop.ptld.qwest.net> At 10:18 AM 5/27/2003 -0400, Arthur wrote: >Which is why I am continue to try to instigate some discussion and some >activity in the rethinking of the design and content of the edu-sig page. I asked what you thought of adding a second page primarily of links, including to CS + Python related pages, and I pointed you to an example. I'll add this page to python.org when I get the time, which should be soon. Kirby >It's actually a quite significant piece of business, it seems to me - that >is at least for those interested in the popularization of Python. > > >Art From ajsiegel@optonline.net Tue May 27 23:03:50 2003 From: ajsiegel@optonline.net (Arthur) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 18:03:50 -0400 Subject: [Edu-sig] re: edu-sig pages again Message-ID: <000501c3249b$dafd4cb0$0c02a8c0@Arts> >I asked what you thought of adding a second page primarily of links, >including to CS + Python related pages, and I pointed you to an >example. I'll add this page to python.org when I get the time, >which should be soon. I guess with the right emphasis and an introductory paragraph or two, maybe hihglighting an item or two from the list, it should be a good step in the direction I am advocating. Do you know why Numeric is not on the software list? Or pyVTK? Just as a few, for examples. Art