[Edu-sig] Learn to Program in Ten Years

[Arthur]

On Sun, 2004-12-26 at 15:43 -0800, Kirby Urner wrote:
> > As to wxPython, I'm afraid it just failed a test of some importance to
> > me.  VPython does not run interactively from PyShell or PyCrust.  It
> > just hangs.  It does run interactively from the native prompt and from
> > the Idle prompt.
> > 
> 
> Hence my cc to the wxpython dev list, mentioning VPython, and the "would be
> nice" prospect of integrating it more effectively.

But I think you are talking about something more ambitious than the
issue that is my immediate concern. 

Simply running VPython as one would anything else from the prompt does
not imply any real level of integration.  On the contrary, it seems that
the shell and VPython need to successfully get out of each others' way.
And the problem is they don't.  Subprocesses, threads, or something.

Anything that moves toward real integration would I suspect need to have
most of its work done from the VPython side.  Apparently VPython is
quirky, greedy as it is - since it gives a lot of things that don't
normally have trouble, trouble.  PythonWin I think is another example.
Closing a VPython window closes the IDE with it.  Idle went to some
lengths to accommodate VPython and prevent this. But it complicated the
Idle architecture considerably.  As a response to John's concerns I
tried to look at the code that runs a script from Idle - and you have
threads talking to subprocesses talking to sockets.  Totally out of my
league to try to truly follow, which is a kind of a shame.

I wonder what, if anything, could be done from the VPython side to make
it friendlier, without it losing it's uniqueness.  Understanding that
part of that uniqueness is the fact that the display is just implicitly
there.  
As you know,

>>import visual
>>visual.sphere()

is sufficient to create not only a sphere() but an entire rendering
context and display for itself. I am guessing that is accomplished in
ways other programs needing to cooperate with VPython tend not to like.

I am at a loss to chip in to finding a solution.  But a weekend spent
trying to get deeper into boost::python and GTK indicates some real
interest in the problem, and at least good intentions ;)

Art