[Edu-sig] Re: Edu-sig Digest, Vol 19, Issue 22

Sat Feb 26 12:20:52 CET 2005

Joe,
I am a high school teacher in Australia and I have
kept right away from C / C++. I feel it is simply too
hard @ high school level. I think we have "spoken"
before?

I have taught Pascal, VB, Python and Java - as core
languages over the years.
I have also taught Prolog, Haskell and Scheme LISP -
to demonstrate alternative thinking patterns in
programming.
All programming at high school level, in my experince,
suffers because the GUI in VB is so damn good! I tend
to agree that it doesn't encourage the best coding
skills in students ... however it does allow them to
focus on getting results - relatively quickly - and
with the graphical components which are important to
them - (hold attention, motivate etc).

Python IS a GREAT language to start out with ... but
simply put, the lack of GUI means only the most
committed students get anything out of it without alot
of coercing from me. I read Kirby's work with interest
- however my experience is teenagers just aren't
interested in math. Rather it is a chore that must be
endured, a minimum standard society requires us to
attain.

Java ... well is some regards good, but honestly in my
opinion - vastly over rated. It has so much "gumph" in
it that it takes students 9 - 10 weeks before they
begin to feel comfortable with it and mostly in this
time you lose the majority of them. Once again a VB
like GUI is required. The whole code in this, compile
here, run and then work out what's wrong puts lots of
students off - even when you give them a decent IDE (I
like JCreator, JGRASP or BlueJ if you want to focus on
OO programming)

I see a moderate number of students (always boys) each
year who will definitely become programmers / study
computer science.
I encourage these kids to look at Python and Haskell -
and they tend to be the sort of person who can look
beyond the GUI and want to learn how to really
program.

For the remainder of students who have chosen IT more
for general interest I use VB (last year, 2004, we did
Python, console based programs are really boring!).
This year I have changed and moved to Gamemaker. I
have read huge amounts of material advocating
programming games as a way to encourage kids to think
- (analyse, synthesise, evaluate, plan, design,
manage, communicate) ... AND I have never seen such
enthusiasm for programming, smiles from ear to ear -
even the girls love it! BTW Gamemaker written in
Delphi - I think - and has its roots in Pascal.

Hope this helps

regards
Darren

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. High School Programming for Newbies (Joseph
> Ehlers)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2005 20:39:56 -0600
> From: "Joseph Ehlers" <ehlersjp at msn.com>
> Subject: [Edu-sig] High School Programming for
> Newbies
> To: <edu-sig at python.org>
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> <BAY4-DAV26194BFD97580C48EFDAF8DA650 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Dear Python Community,
> 
>  
> 
> I joined the Python Edu-Sig about a year ago and
> posed the question of what would be good for an
> Introductory High School Programming course.  Your
> input guided my efforts and now my high school is
> finally going to offer programming courses starting
> next year; we currently do not offer any
> programming.  We have permission for two classes and
> administration support for a third class a few years
> down the road.  At the moment the course offerings
> are looking like this:
> 
>  
> 
>   1.. The first semester class will probably be
> Visual Basic.  Two reasons for this:  1). The GUI
> should hold students' attention quickly in this
> elective class and, 2).  Every other high school in
> my metro area is offering Visual Basic. 
>   2.. The second semester class is looking like it
> will be Python.  Books are hard to find but I'm
> looking at, "Python Programming for the Absolute
> Beginner" by Michael Dawson, "Python Programming An
> Introduction to Computer Science" by John Zelle, and
> "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist Learning
> with Python" by Allen Downey, Jeffrey Elkner and
> Chris Meyers.  Maybe I'll settle on one or a
> combination of the three. 
>   3.. The next full year class will be AP Computer
> Science Java (This class won't happen for a few
> years however.  I have to become more knowledgeable
> before I tackle three big fish at once).
>  
> 
> I have done a lot of research on this but I must
> confess that since I am not a programmer that most
> of the research results are over my head.  My high
> school is not turning out programmers; we are just
> trying to expose students to computer science and
> programming and to help them think logically through
> problems.  We are trying to prepare them for college
> computer science.  From my research, Python's
> strengths seem to be:  easy to learn, simple syntax,
> fun, allows students to spend time thinking about
> the problem versus fixing syntax, transitions nicely
> into Java, and develops logical thinking.  All that
> sounds great, just what we are tying to accomplish
> and I can't wait for the course.  
> 
>  
> 
> (I'm finally getting to my question.)  Now some
> people are telling me that we need to offer C++. 
> Help! I don't think I can fit more into the
> curriculum and do justice to any one language.  One
> of our goals is to offer AP Computer Science Java in
> the future and we want the students adequately
> prepared for that language.  What is the opinion of
> the Python Edu-Sig community?  Should we offer C++? 
> And if so, where would it fit into the curriculum? 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you.  This community was very helpful in the
> past in steering me in the right direction. 
> (Another strength of Python).  You are helping shape
> new courses at the high school level.  Your help is
> greatly appreciated.  
> 
>  
> 
> Joe Ehlers
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> End of Edu-sig Digest, Vol 19, Issue 22
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=====
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
regards 
Darren Payne 
Hurlstone Agricultural High School 
Ph: 9829 9222 Fax: 98292026

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