[Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

[kirby urner]

On 7/15/06, ajsiegel at optonline.net <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote:
> > What I glean from studying Guido's, Alan's and Bruce Eckel's writings,
> > is this thing about late binding. You do it all in runtime,
> > basically. You get to be dynamic, aren't under the thumb of a finicky
> > compiler that requires you to predeclare, and thence to "nail down"
> > all your code. Nope, don't have to do it that way, as SmallTalk and
> > Python both prove.
>
> My senbilities only feel under assault when reading the writings of one of
> these folks.
>
> His name is Alan Kay.

But you shouldn't feel under assault vis-a-vis my reason for grouping
them, as the very next sentence after that slayer talk I cited, is
LATE BINDING (all caps like that -- true, in the mind of a note
taker).

> How can they all be saying the same thing?
>

Just check the literature.  Treat it as a technical issue, not a
personality or political one.

Guido, Alan and Bruce all praise the virtues of dynamic runtime-aware
languages, the kind that can easily write and eat their own source
code on the fly, introspect, other tricks.

LISP was the breakthrough in some ways, and Alan circles it for that reason.

He's not short on praise for ideas and people he admires -- an
exclusive elite, but one he's sincere in respecting.

> I *do* acknowledge to Mr. Kay exactly what he asks to have acknowledged  -
> he is in a class of his own.
> .
> No - he needn't care that he offends me.
>
> What I am thoroughly confused about - in all honesty - is that I seem to be
> the exception to the rule, rather the rule.
>
> I don't mean this sarcastically, as more nastiness.
>
> I honestly don't understand the seriousness with which he is taken.
>
> And I have read a lot about science, its history;. and the players that
> history has anointed.
>
> Art

He takes a hard line, that we maybe peaked in 70s, and that the
average IQ of computer science the discipline has been plummeting ever
since.  That line raises hackles.  He adapts, yes, but continues to
come out swinging, with all this trademark "low pass filter" talk, and
obvious skepticism that anyone younger really knows shit.

That's some seriously offensive clowning and a lot of people'd take
him down if they could, but he keeps at it, plus brings new code to
the table, new ideas.  He backs up what he presents with running code.
 It's not just a shallow meme pool he's sharing from.  This guy's done
some homework.

He does more than recycle or rest on his reputation (venturing into
Python Nation was the act of an adventuresome explorer, especially
given some of the hackles around here).

At least that was my experience.  He'll gladly risk offending everyone
at the table, if only to make some point on principle.

Annoying, yes, but also the mark of an earnest thinker.  I'd say you
two probably have more in common than you realize, which may account
some for your blind spot here.

Kirby