[Edu-sig] PySqueak: pyGTK & Cairo & pygtkglext (OpenGL) next?

Sun Jun 4 16:28:11 CEST 2006

On 04/06/06, Paul D. Fernhout <pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com> wrote:
>
> Francois-
>
> Live CDs sound great for the field (we had the earlier discussion about it
> on edusig a month or two back, including a link to a Python software
> distribution on a GNU/Linux bootable CD),
>    http://wiki.python.org/moin/PythonCd
> though for individuals, like you say, they have to be motivated to make
> and boot a CD, more so than a simple download onto their current system.

Oops I missed that, they should add an "edu section",  thanks I'll  try it .

I read a few of the Alan Kay posts in that thread just now, and I think he
> is right on people not wanting to spread technology developed after the
> 1960s (and objects are a 1970s thing. :-). He sounds frustrated about it,
> but then so am I. :-) The site that he linked to was down,

You're right the site isn't accessible for me neither. When I tried it a few
weeks ago it worked well.

I may have mentioned it here before, but one of my relatives who is a
> teacher had to sign a document saying she could be fired if they installed
> any software on her classroom computer.

 [...]

"FREEZE! THIS IS A SOFTWARE RAID"
> http://www.businessweek.com/1997/09/b351634.htm
> and:
> "Guitar maker plays a Linux tune"
>
> http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/27/021127hnerniball.html?s=IDGNS
> Can't find a school raid one off hand, but I know I have seen them before.

Yes we have the same threats in French education and posters from the BSA
everywhere in schools :
http://francois.schnell.free.fr/bazar/exigez-loriginal.JPG
http://swpat.ffii.org/gasnu/bsa/

Personally I hope they will even be more aggressive towards education,
thanks to them it really helps to spread Free Software much quicker ! I
heard Quebec ditched MS Office in secondary education  for Open Office
because of these threats. Other countries like Spain and Brazil are now
massively going for Linux in secondary education.

Me, I'm sacrificing some sleep and it will catch up with me. [I have a
> consulting project that might be coming up so I want to get as much done
> as possible before that distracts me, in hopes it might pick up speed on
> its own afterwards if it reaches a "critical mass" point.]

Still take care of  yourself !  undefined day you should ...  time.sleep
(7*60*60)

But nothing like an audience to get one motivated. I appreciate your
> interest, and hope at some point you might try the TK version in SVN --
> though I have not packaged it, so you'd need to check it out with SVN (or
> download each of about twenty files separately, ouch).
>    http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/patapata/trunk/PataPata/
> I could make a package if that makes it a lot easier though.

Don't worry about the package I've actually co the repository a day ago (on
my XP and Kubuntu box) and will check for updates often to have my current
juicy PataPata version :)

Here's the problem I have with the Tk version:

On Win XP :

- If I alt-right-click on a Morph and call the inspector it doesn't work (ie
I can see in the dos window that it called InspectMorph <Prototype xxxxx>
but the inspector doesn't focus on this Morph)
- If I manually search for a morph in the Inspector (where it says "morphs
<'type list'>") and if I try to change its color for example (lets say
'red') and click "accept" => the morph disappear from the world and the dos
window says : problem drawing morph <Prototype xxxx>

On Kubuntu Dapper Drake:

- the alt (left or right) click  doesn't work as expected : if I want to
drag a morph I'm always dragging the whole application window and I can't
drag an individual Moph anymore. If do an alt-right click I can't access the
menu to inspect the morph (I have a ~"resize" icon for the mouse cursor).
- I have the same bug than for XP if I want to change a value in the
inspector.

Maybe it is related to the bug you were talking about ? I can make a quick
screencast if it helps you to visualize the problem.

francois

>
>
> All the best.
>
> --Paul Fernhout
>
> francois schnell wrote:
> > On 03/06/06, Paul D. Fernhout <pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com> wrote:
> > Just for feedback, I've just installed PyGTK & GTK+ 2.8 runtime &
> > pyCairo on
> > a WinXP box and its really quick: 1 exe for each to double click on.
> > http://www.pcpm.ucl.ac.be/~gustin/win32_ports/
> >
> > The 3D gtkglext is more difficult for now (I didn't find any exe): =>
> mingw
> > , make for win, etc ...
> >
> > Maybe for very *motivated* people (under win and mac-intel), a
> "heavy-gear"
> > possibility to be sure that most things are well set-up will be a
> > patapata-liveCD (maybe based on something like Morphix - that I might
> try
> > this summer).
> >
> > While checking this I've just found out that "pyro" made an apparently
> nice
> > live-CD (with knoppix) :
> > http://www.pyrorobotics.org/?page=PyroLiveCD
> >
> > Actually I think it would also be useful to have a ~
> > "PythonWorldEdu-LiveCD"
> > with :
> >
> > - Python resources  (+ videos)
> > - all the educational Python softs possible (patapata, vpython,
> > Crunchy-Frog, rur-ple, "gnu-math", pyro, pygeo, pygame, pymol, etc ...)
> > - Pyhon and Python bindings apps to make contents with (Blender, Gimp,
> etc)
> > or to play games.
> >
> > In fact I'd like something I could show to people and say : all this
> > software are done either in Python or you can tinker them with Python
> > (bindings)  and if you want to  begin to discover/learn Python all you
> need
> > is the live CD and begin playing with all these.
> >
> > Concerning your java options, I don't know if you've seen the Logo TNG
> Gui
> > on OS-X :
> > http://education.mit.edu/starlogo-tng/tutorial-videos/
> >
> > I'm not a big Java fan but if Java applets could help to bring patapata
> > in a
> > browser with some python code background it could be important.
> > For Alan Kay the browser is something to reconsider:
> > http://www.redhat.com/archives/olpc-software/2006-April/msg00035.html
> >
> >
> > (And I would rather be modifying Jython than CPython,
> >
> >> since Java is somewhat easier to work with than C.) So, maybe I should
> >> think harder about a Jython/Swing version of PataPata (at least as
> >> another
> >> proof of concept)?
> >
> >
> >
> > Dear me I don't now were you find all this pluridisplinarity and energy
> !
> > I don't know what you eat (or drink) in the morning but I want to order
> the
> > same ;)
> >
> > Concerning the different graphical/GUI choices I just don't now enough
> yet
> > to be useful but I'm following with interest your investigations.
> > Maybe, If after gathering feedback's you're not sure about the choices
> to
> > make,  I  tend to advise to go with the one you "feel" you will have the
> > more fun with :)
> > I'm quite convince of that after reading Pekka Himanen book (phD at 20
> ...)
> > which have also an interesting intro of Torwald about the 3
> > (survival,social, and fun) needs :
> > http://www.pekkahimanen.org/
> > http://www.netvironments.org/ECulture/Module3/HackerEthic/
> >
> > francois
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