[Edu-sig] Accessibility to non CS types?

[francois schnell]

On 29/05/06, Paul D. Fernhout <pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com> wrote:
>
> Francois-
>
> Wow!  Thanks for making that Flash recording:
>
> http://francois.schnell.free.fr/bazar/patapata-test1/patapata-test1.html
> That is a neat demo showing things I had not even thought of, like with
> the jumping Morphs (and far beyond my presentation skills).


Well what I''m doing here is not really a "neat" presentation it's just that
when I find something interesting like this I like to show it to other
people :)  (I'm also very much into Free Culture and Free Software
advocating).

My wife is now
> finally impressed somewhat with what I am doing. :-) The version you are
> using did benefit from her trying an earlier version and her feedback on
> it, as several things she (also a programmer) tried that were hard or
> confusing or generated errors, I made easier or fixed.


Oh , send also to her "mes homages" and congratulations from the french man
:) (my English spouse still have nearly no idea what I'm doing with
electronics bits and computers all over the place).


> To answer your first question: To add a method, try right-clicking in the
> yellow inspector pane [...]
>

Dear me ... I didn't think you already have that and didn't try ... it works
great thanks ! fun times ahead :)

To answer your second question: To execute a method in another morph, you
> must first have a pointer to that morph directly. Ideally, that would be
> supported by cut and paste in the inspector, but you can't do that yet.
> However, you can, say, go to Morph 0 and add a field and call it "morph1"
> and then when asked for the value, enter (without quotes):
> "world.morphs[1]" which will evaluate to Morph 1 in the world. Then you
> could reference "self.morph1" in any method of Morph 0, like to call
> "self,morph1.X()" directly.[...]


Great my objects can now talk to each others ! It will be awesome when
you'll also have "quick integration" of this. :) More fun times ahead :))


> I'm guessing you're using WinXP? Nice to see the wxWindows button dragging
> properly.


I'm mainly using  XP for software  I don't  have  on my  Ubuntu Dapper
(like quick sreencasting, itunes/podcasts for my ipod, etc). I have one
screen/keyboard/mouse and a switch quickly between the Linux and XP box.

So many times one does things and thinks no one notices or cares, so I'm
> very excited to see someone trying it (and going to the effort to make a
> Flash video, too). Thanks again for trying it and the encouragement.


Well ... maybe it's why Einstein said it's difficult for people to
understand what they never experienced (ie in our case a visual hands-on
squeak-like familiarity of objects land) , that's also why he said that
imagination is more important than knowledge. I believe it's Alan Kay who
said that the computer revolution haven't started yet in education and that
kids ~need "imagination amplifiers" => make PataPata a good imagination
amplifier !


> As
> regards future evolution, right now I'm at a decision point as to whether
> to push forward in Python further or, as per my previous discussions here
> with Kirby where he rightly points to dominant paradigms in specific
> languages, to jump to something like OCaml and use it to build a Self-like
> prototype language on top of it (something like io, which looks great,
>    http://www.iolanguage.com/about/
> but with a Smalltalk/Self-derived keyword syntax, which I feel is
> desirable), and so essentially producing a system that supports two
> extremes of permissiveness at two different levels -- strong (but
> implicit) typing at a speedy supporting layer and anything-goes prototypes
> above that for most GUI development work. On the other hand, I am making a
> lot of progress with Python (and not knowing OCaml much) and a Python
> version has value to me for other reasons. So, this seems like a big vote
> on keeping it all in Python for now?


Well I don't know OCaml and io but If I were you I would be suspicious of a
"yankee" advising you a language written by french people ;)

I personally would *love* if you continue this in Python, I'm not anymore in
a testing phase, I've seen enough to "adopt" it and see how I can use it for
games/simulations/teaching and help where I can :)

I probably won't be able to help on the core "PataPata"  but my Python
skills gets better and better (I'm quite new to Python).

I can help with :
- bug tracking
- playing with it and doing short examples/demos (games/simulations)
- promoting and doc (especially in the French Python sphere)
- i18n and French translation
- I begin to know more and more the multimedia part of Python (sound, video,
streaming), could be handy one day
- extend morphs to the analog world (data acquisition and automation)
- I'm good at testing plenty of things and finding gems (useful if you don't
want  to reinvent the wheel). :)

Well it's bed time on this part of the globe =>  $ python dreamland.py

Please keep up your excellent work <subliminal> and use Python :)
</subliminal>

francois

All the best.
>
> --Paul Fernhout
>
> francois schnell wrote:
> > On 26/05/06, Paul D. Fernhout <pdfernhout at kurtz-fernhout.com> wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> I think Self leads the way here in generality with one inspector that
> can
> >> be used to build GUIs, programs, or just sets of objects. And here is
> an
> >> attempt to bring that ease of use to Python, building on ideas from
> Self
> >> (and Squeak): :-)
> >>
> >>
> http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/patapata/trunk/PataPata/PataPata.py?view=log
> >>
> >> Doesn't succeed yet perhaps in making that beginner friendly, but a
> >> start.
> >> (PythonCard is much better choice for current work though.)
> >
> >
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've just gave a try to your "PataPata" and I already have fun with it
> > while
> > "testing" it :)
> > http://francois.schnell.free.fr/bazar/patapata-test1/patapata-test1.html
> >
> > Will it be possible to directly add new methods to morphs (maybe from
> the
> > inspector ? ... when I saw the 'grow' method I wanted a "shrink' one
> ...).
> > Is there a way yet to execute a Morph method from another Morph (if I
> click
> > on Morph 1 I'd like to execute method X from Morph 2 for example).
> >
> > I find your "PataPata"  promising and I'm eager to see how it evolves :)
> >
> > francois
> >
> >
> >
> > --Paul Fernhout
>
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