[Edu-sig] The fate of raw_input() in Python 3000

[kirby urner]

On 9/14/06, Arthur <ajsiegel at optonline.net> wrote:

> Ok so far.  Except I like to eat chicken well enough.
>

Funny.

I wrote my post, took Tara to the dentist, then came back and found it
on my screen.  Thought not sent after all.  Added a parenthetical
about chicken.  Then saw I'd really posted to variants.  Then saw your
reply to my first.  Mentioning chicken.  Heh.

> In other words, programming is a kind of math, algebra is a kind of math
> and working the roads together is reinforcing of some of the core
> concepts of each - although it can be said better than that also.

I'd say it's patently obvious from an efficiency standpoint that we
should be merging math and CS earlier than we do.

Those who fight this should be very clear about why.

I'm not always willing to be on the defensive.

I want to hear from the defense:  why no Python in algebra class yet?
Let's here some good reasons (and they better be good).

> > There's a conspiracy to keep basic numeracy divided between math class
> > on the one hand, and CS-as-a-college-thing-only.
>
> A conspiracy needs a motive.  There is not motive and therefore I can't
> find a conspiracy.  There *is* inertia and misinformation.  Most of the

Just keeping stuff the same is comfortable and comforting.  All you
need for a conspiracy is a shared tacit investment in "not rocking the
boat".  Nothing deeply sinister.  But the consequences may be
nevertheless ugly.

> > I'm far from
> > accusing you of being a member of this conspiracy (on the contrary,
> > your book is quite popular with the high school crowd), but I am it's
> > declared enemy, as I think CS needs a *much* bigger footprint in the
> > early grades, where recruiters for technology-literate jobs are
> > artificially kept at a disadvantage.
>
> They are the ones with the motive.  If this is about worrying about
> them, I resign.

By "they" you mean the recruiters?  Students come to college already
turned off to technology careers.

They apparently didn't have much of a positive experience with
technology, up to age 18.

Except maybe as consumers and users maybe.  But not as people who
might develop tomorrow's.

No Python in algebra class?  Why again?  Why just the calculators?

> There is heritage in your world??   I hear more a world where
> everything is obsolete before it dries.
>
> A Gnu Age guru type, you are.
>
> Art

You're not someone I need to prove anything to, when it comes to
heritage.  You're not in my way, not blocking my advance.

So let's talk heritage some other time, when it might actually matter.

Kirby