[Edu-sig] a non-rhetorical question

[John Zelle]

Hi All,

I am very interested in responses to Andy's question because it was just this 
sort of frustration with students' inability to write simple programs that 
led me to using Python (as opposed to C++ or Java) in CS1. After my switch to 
Python and "back to basics" CS1 back in 1999, my results dramatically 
improved. However, I've noticed lately that an increasing share of my 
(college-level) students are beginning to struggle. It's not like the C++ 
days, but enough to be concerned.

So I ask myself again "What has changed about the course?" If anything, what 
has changed is that I am adding more "bells and whistles" to try to make the 
course enticing. Doing projects like HTML screen scrapers, image processing, 
and animations. However, even though the students like these projects, I'm 
feeling that they may actually detract from learning fundamental concepts 
like how to design sentinel loops and simple decisions. Let's face it, every 
API you introduce is extra detail for the students to master, no matter 
how "fun" it is.  Plain old text processing programs can be fun too if:

1) The instructor provides the proper setup/explanation/motivation.

2)  Students have opportunity to master them. Students enjoy what they feel 
they understand and can do.

On Thursday 05 July 2007 11:24 pm, Michael Tobis wrote:
> Sorry, but I don't think you've successfully motivated your students
> if that is all they can do in a month. Let me hazard a suggestion.
> Rather than being too mabitious you are not being ambitious enough.
>
> Scripting languages have batteries included. Doing the stuff you would
> have done with BASIC in 1980 is not necessary and not sufficient. I
> imagine few tenth graders can connect printing sentences backwards and
> such with anything they care about.
>
> see http://hacketyhack.net

I've looked at hacetyhack.net. As others have pointed out, it looks like lots 
of fun for certain well-motivated students. Those with a strong inner-geek 
can go to a site like this and actually learn something. But there is a ton 
of mystery lurking behind this API, and it's not clear to me that this is the 
quickest way for the average student to really learn the universals of 
programming.

> I'd rather kids learned Python than Ruby or PHP or ActionScript, but
> I'd *much* rather they learned one of those than nothing at all.

I'd much rather that they learned the power and limitations of computing in 
general. Learning the details of any particular specialized API does not seem 
all that valuable (or important or useful) to me.

Of course, your mileage may vary. I'm dealing with older and presumeably more 
mature students.

--John


-- 
John M. Zelle, Ph.D.             Wartburg College
Professor of Computer Science    Waverly, IA     
john.zelle at wartburg.edu          (319) 352-8360