[Edu-sig] Politics and Python in Education (meta on list charter)

[Peter Bowyer]

At 06:58 22/07/2007, Paul D. Fernhout wrote:
>OK, let's talk specifics of a CP4E-like project and its limitations.
>Consider one that is mentioned in the CP4E proposal (though somewhat
>dismissively) -- DrScheme, or as it is now, "Teach Scheme":
>   http://www.python.org/doc/essays/cp4e.html

What did any of this have to do with what I wrote?  You sent a 19kb 
email that only briefly touched upon my points at the end.  I rest my 
case: such mailings should be written up in a wiki, blog or other 
medium; they do not enhance a discussion on the list.

>Even adding together the "Teach Scheme" effort to Python's CP4E -- we're
>talking essentially (on a percentage basis) just a hair's width above
>*zero* percent of classrooms which are embracing a CP4E-like ideal --
>after a decade and probably *millions* of dollars (total) and dozens
>of person-years (by smart and motivated people). Curtailing
>discussion here on why this is the case just seems to be ensuring this
>near zero percentage won't change much for Python -- even as I'll admit
>it probably *will* make the people already using Python in the classroom
>happier for the moment (thus some of the +1 comments).

As I see it your understanding of the purpose of the list and mine 
are different.  This isn't a list about CP4E and how to get Python 
out there because it *needs* to be done, it's about practical 
discussion for those on the ground.

Let's see what the edu-sig page says:
"Edu-sig provides an informal venue for comparing notes and 
discussing future possibilities for Python in education. Its origins 
trace to Guido van Rossum's pioneering Computer Programming for 
Everybody (CP4E), a grant proposal accepted by DARPA, and which 
provided a modicum of funding in 1999.

Membership includes, but is not limited to, educators using Python in 
their courses, independent developers, and authors of educational 
materials. Discussion focuses on Python use at all levels, from..."

OK, so I have been interpreting it more narrowly than it is actually 
defined, not having the faintest idea what CP4E is or why an 
Education Special Interest Group (as opposed to a CP4E SIG) should be 
discussing it.

1.  Does the list fulfill the charter?
2.  Does the list fulfill the needs of its members?
3.  Are these the aims of most members on the list?

>Education and schooling are not synonymous.

Agreed, and no where have I stated to the contrary.

Regards,
Peter

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