[Edu-sig] Politics and Python in Education (meta on list charter)

[kirby urner]

On 7/22/07, Peter Bowyer <peter at mapledesign.co.uk> wrote:

> I think frequency and length are a good measure of
> dominance.

I'd be more inclined to agree if there were a fixed disk size.
But we both know human postings take few kbs.  Even a
high rez jpeg is more bytes than most of a month's writing.

Put another way:  I'm not trammeling on anyone's freedom to
post whatever, starting thousands of conversations around
me, like in a busy restaurant.  It could be so high volume
around here that you just pick and choose a few threads,
like on comp.lang.python.

I don't think my relatively high post rate is a barrier to that
happening.  Ergo I don't view myself as quelling debate and
or discussion of whether to teach lists first or dictionaries.

Just ignore me already.  Have you anything to say?  Go right
ahead and say it.  How am I in your way?

I'd think teachers would *want* to be on record somewhere
as supporting a more prominent role for programming in
our culture.  Edu-sig could be used in that way.  That puts
you on the winning side early, often a good place to be.

> Because it comes across like Kirby's or Paul's Journal -

But why is that Kirby's or Paul's fault?  Start hitting it back and forth
with Dethe about whatever you want to talk about.  Stop blank
staring at me.  Snap out of it man!

> it's not often asking for input or in response to others' questions,
> it's information from you being shared.  There's valuable information
> there, but it's not fitting for an email list.  I mean 19kb Paul in
> response to my post!

I've been very conversational in style.  These write-ups or class
notes form a piece of it, yes, but I'm hardly just blabbering to myself.
I'm interspersing my remarks.  Like here.  It's just like an ordinary
email list, sometimes with longer essays by some of the more
prolific.  Ever been on with a group of writers before?  It's just
like this.  Some characters you learn to tune out -- life is short,
I think that's a given.

> >This idea that I'm just sitting back in an armchair, pontificating
> >and theorizing, might fit some other subscribers here, but not me.
> >
> >In Portland, Oregon, we actually teach mathematics using Python.
> >That's just the reality on the ground.  I use edu-sig to file notes on
> >how we're doing that, helping to spread competence to other
> >gnu math teachers out there (a growing army).
>
> But is that edu-sig's role?  I'd say no - that's something for your
> own website/blog to fulfill, not a general discussion list.  I'd

I don't *just* use edu-sig in this way, and I *do* put a lot more in my
blogs, including pictures.  But I hardly think it's off topical to take a
real case of a real teacher really teaching Python, and publishing
some of the notes to edu-sig exclusively.  That's part of what makes
this a valuable resource.  Doesn't have to be the whole story.

> certainly not want you to never provide feedback, but give us brief
> updates on what you're finding works every so often and let us read
> it on your site if we choose.

That sounds like trying to micromanage.  But I know very well you
can filter emails, not read my stuff.  And that's *great*!  I shouldn't
be able to flood you with stuff you don't care about -- not because
I need to cut back, but because you have the power to filter (as do I).

Remember, I get a lot of fan mail.  People encourage me.  Why should
I listen to you over them, when it comes to exactly what/how/when
I should post to edu-sig.

> It comes back to whether the list is viewed as information
> dissemination or a community.  I would strongly argue for the latter,
> as the former can be done by individuals.
>

So welcome to our community then.  Don't think I don't consider it to be one.

> Dominance by a few people doesn't build for an open community either,
> or even community.
>

I haven't bought into your "dominance" metaphor yet.  I'm not forcing
anyone to keep quiet about what they care about am I?  So what that
I write a lot?  I'm a writer.

> >I'm also a busy professional, a DBA for a team of eminent heart
> >surgeons, with clinical data going back to the 1960s (among other
> >hats that I wear).
>
> I have great respect for the amount you manage to do, one day I may
> reach this level of productivity!
>
> In the end it's up to the list mom (an invention sorely missed these
> days) to say what we can and cannot do.  I mean no disrespect to your
> work by these postings Kirby.
>
> Regards,
> Peter

Why do we need a "list mom"?  That sounds so cub scout.

Kirby