[Edu-sig] Django or Web2Py for PyWhip

[kirby urner]

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 4:23 PM, David MacQuigg
<macquigg at ece.arizona.edu> wrote:
> kirby urner wrote:
>>
>> At issue is whether try-over-the-web is a way you need to go, granted
>> other language communities are trying it.
>>
>> You've got Python out of the box if you're a Linux user, and so the
>> question is, if you're not a Linux user, do you even matter?  When it
>> comes to server side architectures, probably not.
>>
>
> The big difference between doing it "in the cloud" and doing it with a
> downloadable app on the student's computer is teacher interaction.  Sure,
> you could do even that with the right kind of networking, but we will still
> need a central server if we want instructors to have a "wide and deep" view
> of the students work in progress, not just a clipping sent in an email.  The
> immediate problem might be difficulties with recursion, but if the teacher
> drills down into the lesson on for-loops and sees some misunderstanding
> there, she might suggest that the student do a few more problems in that
> area first.
>

No argument there, that having a centralized study center will provide
better overview stats.

I'm just skeptical that a web site with the premise "we think you
don't have Python installed, so try it here first" is getting off on
the right foot.

<namespace author = "h.g. wells" title="the time machine" >

If you're a Morlock, working server-side, you've got Python installed.

If you're Eloi, wallowing in Windows, it's easy enough to get it, and
if you aspire to get into programming, that's a worthwhile first step.

</namespace>

I consider OS X a server side technology even if many OS X users know
next to nothing about programming.

In other words, lets not assume that people come to FlyPy or PyJet
because they don't have a running Python, as that's likely not your
demographic.  They'll have it.

On the other hand, if the message is more like:  "do it here on our
cloud or you won't get academic credit for your work", well, that's
something else and might represent a reasonable instructor demand
(getting everything as email snippets for checking is too much work).

Based on my experiences helping international students, like this guy
in Indonesia (a Facebook friend), it's not that easy sharing source
code, especially when all the variable names are in Indonesian (for
me, that's hard to read).

There's this shared whiteboard we can use, with built in chat, but we
each run our Pythons locally.  Having a shared server in the cloud
that we could both observe and work with, might be just the ticket.

> Here's another scenario.  Imagine a diverse set of students, with an equally
> diverse collection of laptops, desktops, OS's, whatever.  When a student has
> some difficulty with his homework, he presses the HELP button, and within
> minutes a "black belt" PyKata instructor is looking at the student's work,
> and offering advice.  These instructors could be former students making a
> little money as tutors, or just doing it as a favor for their younger
> classmates, or maybe helping the sophomore team get ready for a competition.
>

Finding someone to pair up with so that you don't get lost in some
solo project that no one understands but you is a worthy goal.

If doing your Python in the cloud helps you get expert attention, so
much the better.

> I'm not seeing much downside to doing this as a web app, so I haven't given
> much thought to making it a self-contained downloadable app.
>
> -- Dave
>

>From a student centric point of view, if I'm having trouble with my
Python, where will I go?

Newgroups, user groups, Youtubes, Showmedo, a ton of other places.
Friends.  Associates...

However, if I'm in a class with my peers and we share some
over-the-web infrastructure, maybe that's another good way to get some
help.

Having classmates help one another, not just compete, seems very XP
(extreme programming compatible) and should be encouraged.

If they're already paying tuition, so that your Kata black belt has
somewhere to collect, that's different from anonymous over-the-web
students who've not signed up for any specific course.  Right?

I'm sure you've already considered the angles.

Kirby