[Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG - Panel

Mon Oct 25 02:17:54 CEST 2010

Thanks for sharing your experience.  You're right that dealing with
limitations is a very important lesson.  I envy your access to Linux
machines!  I like your story about the girls' complex dance.
Sometimes the process is much, much more important than the result.

> That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8
> weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have
> covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the
> context of programming the scribblers.

To be clear, this is after 13 weeks or so of other programming!  So
really it's not all that different from the schedule you're
describing.  8 weeks to image processing actually sounds pretty
ambitious.  Can you share with us how many days you see your students
and for how many hours, what kind of homework you give them (I give
none) and things like that?  Apologies if you have before but I don't
remember seeing it.  Are you alone with the 7 or do you have to teach
another class simultaneously?

On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 5:12 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 24, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Helene Martin <lognaturel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Vern,
>>
>> I always have trouble with bluetooth interference, changing COM ports
>> (probably a Windows XP "feature"), low batteries and so on.  Of
>>
>> course, these issues are probably aggravated by having 60 students
>> working with them over 220 minutes in a day but I imagine they show up
>> at any scale.  At first, the students find it quaint and put up with
>> it but I've found that their tolerance for the quirks is finite, as is
>> mine.  I hesitate to teach Python basics using the platform for those
>> reasons.  Do you share those problems?  How do you address them?
>
> The bluetooth problem is pretty much taken care of by using the dedicated
> Linux laptops - as long as I can set them up without the others on, it's no
> problem and we don't have any real trouble with that. The battery issue is
> real - as the voltage goes down the bot's behavior changes, and I shudder to
> think of the number of batteries we've burned through. OTOH, I don't see
> such quirks as obstacles to programming, but rather factors that can be at
> least partly mitigated with code.
>
> So we acknowledge the frustration and try (not always successfully, which is
> in itself a lesson) to deal with it.  All of my kids are used to reading the
> battery state frequently in their code, and they're experimenting to find
> what they can do within the limitations of the machines. And failure, (as
> they say on Mythbusters) is always and option. However, a "failure" that
> establishes just how far the robot can be pushed earns an A, as for example
> a pair of girls who tried to have their two robots perform a complex
> interactive dance. They did a good job - analyzing the problems, trying to
> code solutions, but in the end the hardware wasn't up to the task and they
> could tell you exactly why and how things didn't work. That's a success in
> my book and I let them know that.
>
>>
>> That's one of the big reasons that I only do about two weeks with the
>> 'bots.  That's also about the time it takes us to get through the
>> Georgia Tech exercises (with students already knowing Python basics).
>
> That's impressive. We're just getting to the image processing stuff after 8
> weeks, but then, most of them are new to programming. But as I said, we have
> covered creating modules, basic control structures, and the like, all in the
> context of programming the scribblers.
>
> Cheers,
> Vern
>
>> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 8:51 PM, Vern Ceder <vceder at canterburyschool.org>
>> wrote:
>> > On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 11:24 PM, Zac Miller <zmiller at gsc.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello Vern,
>> >>
>> >> The scribbler robots seem to be pretty popular from the replies I've
>> >> been
>> >> getting here.  We bought one of the robots to experiment with and the
>> >> students really enjoy working with it.  How many of the robots do you
>> >> use?
>> >>  What kind of robot to student ratio?
>> >
>> > I have seven students and each has their own scribbler and dedicated
>> > laptop
>> > (they're old, retired laptops running Debian Linux) since having a
>> > dedicated
>> > laptop cuts down on the hassle/time of pairing the bluetooth board.
>> > Most of those students are new to programming and we're using the
>> > scribblers
>> > for the whole semester, sort of following the same process as GA Tech
>> > does.
>> > A couple of the experienced programmers are moving on to more advanced
>> > projects, though. In working with the scribblers, they've learned if
>> > statements, functions, loops, how to create and use separate modules,
>> > share
>> > code, and now are getting to the point of using the camera to grab and
>> > process images and use that information to control the robots. A couple
>> > of
>> > the advanced kids have written multi-threaded apps to both drive the bot
>> > and
>> > have it automatically avoid obstacles. It depends on what you want to
>> > do,
>> > but scribbler/fluke combo has a lot of potential.
>> >>
>> >> I think that a panel discussion with an established program like yours
>> >> and
>> >> a start up like mine may be interesting, maybe we could add a third and
>> >> work
>> >> out the details in private email.  Anyone else interested?
>> >
>> > +1
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I'm interested in doing a poster as well.  I will be working it all out
>> >> this week since the talk proposal deadline is 1 November.
>> >
>> > Good. The final poster submission deadline is January 19, but we have a
>> > limit of 35 posters and are accepting them on a rolling basis.
>> > Acceptance of
>> > a poster is not tied to whether or not a talk is accepted.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> -J. Zachary Miller
>> >>
>> > Cheers,
>> > Vern
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________
>> >> From: Vern Ceder [vceder at canterburyschool.org]
>> >> Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2010 7:55 PM
>> >> To: Zac Miller
>> >> Cc: edu-sig at python.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] Joining my first SIG
>> >>
>> >> Hi Zac,
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, Oct 23, 2010 at 6:39 PM, Zac Miller
>> >> <zmiller at gsc.edu<mailto:zmiller at gsc.edu>> wrote:
>> >> Hello!
>> >>
>> >> I've just joined this SIG, my first, and looked over a few of the
>> >> archived
>> >> threads from last few months.  My name is Zac Miller and I am currently
>> >> teaching Python programming to college and middle school level
>> >> students.
>> >>
>> >> I am curious if there are many K12 educators involved in this SIG?  I
>> >> am
>> >> looking for people to discuss my student's progress with and it seems
>> >> to be
>> >> hard to find others using Python in this setting.
>> >>
>> >> I'm the technology director and programming teacher at Canterbury, a
>> >> private school in Ft Wayne, IN. We've been teaching at least a little
>> >> Python
>> >> to every single 8th and 9th grader in the school since 2001, as well as
>> >> offering electives in Python, Java, C, etc.
>> >>
>> >> Right now, our Python class is using the same robot/bluetooth board
>> >> that
>> >> Georgia Tech uses (http://wiki.roboteducation.org) which has been a
>> >> blast.
>> >> I'm also teaching an online Python enrichment course to middle school
>> >> kids
>> >> through Northwestern University's Gifted Learning Links program
>> >> (http://www.ctd.northwestern.edu/gll/courses/enrichment/courses/),
>> >> using
>> >> Warren and Carter Sande's _Hello, World!_.
>> >>
>> >> As André mentioned there are a few of us on this list, so go ahead and
>> >> raise your questions.
>> >>
>> >> I am also considering putting together a talk proposal for PyCon 2011.
>> >>  So
>> >> far my ideas for a talk would be a brief introduction of myself and my
>> >> experiences learning and teaching Python in the past year.  I attended
>> >> PyCon
>> >> 2010 as student.  Beyond that brief introduction I would like to
>> >> discuss the
>> >> state of programming in K12 education in the state of Georgia, as much
>> >> of it
>> >> as I have been able to untangle, and ideas for improving it.
>> >>
>> >> I've completed a few open record requests to the Georgia Department of
>> >> Education pulling enrollment number for programming and computer
>> >> science
>> >> courses for the entire state.  What would make for an interested PyCon
>> >> talk
>> >> on K12 education involving Python?  Does anyone have similar data or a
>> >> summary of programming education for another state they wouldn't mind
>> >> sharing for me to use as comparison?  Anyone interested in doing a
>> >> Panel
>> >> proposal?
>> >>
>> >> I'd be available for a panel, and would be willing to work on a
>> >> proposal,
>> >> but don't think I have the time to be a main organizer of one... Also,
>> >> as
>> >> the chair of PyCon's poster session, let me encourage you to consider
>> >> presenting some of your findings as a poster. Even if you submit a talk
>> >> or
>> >> panel (and even if they get turned down) you can still submit a poster
>> >> proposal.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Vern Ceder
>> >>
>> >> Thanks!
>> >>
>> >> -J. Zachary Miller
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Edu-sig mailing list
>> >> Edu-sig at python.org<mailto:Edu-sig at python.org>
>> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> This time for sure!
>> >>   -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>> >> -----------------------------
>> >> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>> >> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>> >> vceder at canterburyschool.org<mailto:vceder at canterburyschool.org>;
>> >> 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>> >>
>> >> The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > This time for sure!
>> >    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
>> > -----------------------------
>> > Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
>> > Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
>> > vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>> >
>> > The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Edu-sig mailing list
>> > Edu-sig at python.org
>> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
> --
> This time for sure!
>    -Bullwinkle J. Moose
> -----------------------------
> Vern Ceder, Director of Technology
> Canterbury School, 3210 Smith Road, Ft Wayne, IN 46804
> vceder at canterburyschool.org; 260-436-0746; FAX: 260-436-5137
>
> The Quick Python Book, 2nd Ed - http://bit.ly/bRsWDW
>