From kurner at oreillyschool.com  Mon Oct  1 01:16:14 2012
From: kurner at oreillyschool.com (Kirby Urner)
Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2012 16:16:14 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] Education Summit and a personal note
In-Reply-To: <CAKvj0qTquGdsG8BxWc48gzQz186+BBOKdYR4WJBPrYGiLR5Bjw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAKvj0qTquGdsG8BxWc48gzQz186+BBOKdYR4WJBPrYGiLR5Bjw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGe4BMErWe_-u1UTRCCh9=jKd5kTnyNaSjxEywfKn+dOkoPUAg@mail.gmail.com>

I've accepted the e-Vite already and put it through to my boss to ask the
dean if there might be budget to send me as a rep from my school, vs. me
digging into after taxes earnings.  We shall see (big wheels turns slowly).

I just hope we get it sorted out soon enough to not miss a seat.  I know
Pycon fills quickly.


Kirby
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From da.ajoy at gmail.com  Tue Oct  9 17:40:47 2012
From: da.ajoy at gmail.com (Daniel Ajoy)
Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2012 10:40:47 -0500
Subject: [Edu-sig] "Seven ways to use Python's new turtle module"
Message-ID: <op.wlw4h9zb0gup8g@daniel-pc>

"Seven ways to use Python's new turtle module", presented at PyCon 2009

http://lockerz.com/u/21205615/decalz/13082004/seven_ways_to_use_python_s_new_turtle_mo


From ntoll at ntoll.org  Wed Oct 10 08:00:37 2012
From: ntoll at ntoll.org (Nicholas H.Tollervey)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 07:00:37 +0100
Subject: [Edu-sig] PyconUK education track write-up
Message-ID: <50750F05.5080207@ntoll.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi EduSIGers,

Over the final weekend of September we held PyconUK 2012. I helped to
organise the education track (as mentioned previously on this list)
and I've finally found the time to write up what happened:

http://ntoll.org/article/pyconuk2012

The education "sprint" was especially good fun as both teaching and
developer colleagues collaborated on the beginnings of various resources.

I hope you find it interesting and I'm happy to answer any questions
you may have.

Best wishes,

Nicholas.
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From jurgis.pralgauskis at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 15:28:39 2012
From: jurgis.pralgauskis at gmail.com (Jurgis Pralgauskis)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2012 16:28:39 +0300
Subject: [Edu-sig] python vs processing for introducing programming?
In-Reply-To: <506238F1.6040306@verizon.net>
References: <506238F1.6040306@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <CANDo6EzucntN6QJxSR0=VJUN09L+P8JzmGJFenAA=NrVxgbMLQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

have you noticed a recent post about
http://interactivepython.org/courselib/static/thinkcspy/PythonTurtle/helloturtle.html#iteration-simplifies-our-turtle-program
based on http://www.skulpt.org/

and Coursera starts a course on 15th of September with the same tool
https://www.coursera.org/#course/interactivepython

On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 2:06 AM, Andy Judkis <ajudkis at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hello,
>
> I've been using Python for about 7 or 8 years now to introduce my 10th
> graders to programming, and I've been quite happy with it.  We start out
> with a week of Scratch and a week of RUR-PLE (which I love) before moving on
> to about 3 weeks of Python.  Obviously they don't become experts in that
> time frame, my goal is to just give them a taste of programming.
>
> I've tried various Python environments and graphics libraries over the years
> -- IDLE with livewires, IDLE with the cs1graphics package, JES, vpython --
> and they all have their virtues and pitfalls, at least for my application.
> I've recently become aware of Processing and am really intrigued.  Here are
> some advantages I see:
>
> some fun lessons on khanacademy to get started (a processing library for
> javascript, actually)
> very easy installation, nice simple IDE
> graphical from day 1, very easy interaction with mouse
> there's a great book on using processing with Kinect (Making Things See,
> from O'Reilly) and I think I can demo and talk about some cool stuff from
> that
>
>
> The obvious downsides to me are:
>
> no RUR-PLE
> overall, Processing just isn't as real-world useful as Python
>
>
> I'd be interested in hearing from anyone with experience in teaching
> Processing to this age group, and anyone with any thoughts on the topic.
>
> Thanks,
> Andy Judkis
> Academy of Allied Health and Science
> Neptune, NJ
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>



-- 
Jurgis Pralgauskis
tel: 8-616 77613;
Don't worry, be happy and make things better ;)
http://galvosukykla.lt

From catherine.devlin at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 15:41:26 2012
From: catherine.devlin at gmail.com (Catherine Devlin)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 09:41:26 -0400
Subject: [Edu-sig] Columbus Python Workshop (and IPython Notebook)
Message-ID: <CAGCtaoM7OG69wVOL6ALkwjZpnUVO058nRx_VOH+gXogjMX9fjA@mail.gmail.com>

Announcing the first Columbus Python Workshop for women and their friends!
Jan. 18-19, 2013

The Columbus Python Workshop for women and their friends is a free
hands-on introduction to computer programming that's fun, accessible,
and practical even to those who've never programmed at all before.  We
empower women of all ages and backgrounds to learn programming in a
beginner-friendly environment.

Thanks to Pillar Technologies for hosting the workshop in their
brand-new office in Columbus' Short North!

The workshop is the latest in a series based on the famous Boston
Python Workshop; they've already introduced hundreds of beginners to
programming in Boston, Indianapolis, Portland, Chicago, and Kansas
City.  Now it's Ohio's turn, so spread the word!

Get more details and sign up now:
https://openhatch.org/wiki/Columbus_Python_Workshop

* Happy Ada Lovelace Day!  Traditionally, Ada Lovelace Day is
celebrated by highlighting the achievements of present and past women
in programming.  Today, instead, I'm saluting the contributors of the
future! *

---

Two more aspects about this might be especially interesting to educators:

1) If you haven't looked into the Boston Python Workshop's curriculum,
you really must... it's extremely thoughtful about ramping true
beginners in gently and remembering all the instructions they need.
2) I'm planning to use the IPython Notebook in the workshop in what I
hope will be a really amazing way.  I've blogged about the beginning
of this work at
http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com/2012/10/im-increasingly-amazed-at-ipython.html,
but now I'm pretty confident that I can and will get the doctests to
report their realtime results up to an instructor's dashboard as the
student works.  I'll post again here about that when it's ready.

-- 
- Catherine
http://catherinedevlin.blogspot.com

From aakash at learnstreet.com  Tue Oct 16 23:14:15 2012
From: aakash at learnstreet.com (Aakash Prasad)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2012 14:14:15 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] LearnStreet's Free Online Python Course
Message-ID: <CAPaAuY_XGnX9PXEPu-mYwK9iwmjr-SvzxpR0wuKfJExHbhszCw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I'd like to tell you about a free online Python course that my startup,
LearnStreet (http://www.learnstreet.com), has recently launched (along with
courses on JavaScript and Ruby). Our courses are designed for beginners and
are fun, engaging and interactive through the use of multiple learning
modalities. How is LearnStreet different from other learn-to-code sites you
ask?

UI/UX: A key aspect of LearnStreet?s courses is its distinct UI/UX. In
order to see this, start any one of our courses.

Multi-modal: Our courses are designed for beginners, and we have multiple
ways to help them learn, including live chat, Twitter, Q&A, hints, videos
and background material. http://www.learnstreet.com/lessons/languages/python

Code Garage: Like many of you here, if you already know how to code, check
out Code Garage where you can try your hand at cool coding projects like
building a Mastermind game or a Sudoku Solver.
http://www.learnstreet.com/cg/simple/projects/javascript

Dev Tools: We?ve culled the web to provide some key resources beyond the
core programming language that will help beginners gain a better
understanding of what it takes to become a competent coder.
http://www.learnstreet.com/dev_tools/

We just launched about a couple of weeks ago and would love to get your
thoughts and feedback. We are looking for expert coders to help build out
our other courses so check out the Contribute section on our site as well.

Thanks

Aakash
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Oct 17 20:51:41 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2012 11:51:41 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>

http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2407414

Interesting thread IMO.

Kirby


PS: also enjoying that Ada Day threads on Diversity (python.org)
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From wescpy at gmail.com  Thu Oct 18 18:46:48 2012
From: wescpy at gmail.com (wesley chun)
Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2012 09:46:48 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] Computer Science Education Week (2012 Dec 9-13)
Message-ID: <CAB6eaA4s8FabfMuQZeut5oNzUbt=A2M--8TZNq_NAzAGS=e0Ag@mail.gmail.com>

folks who are doing events/activities for CSEd week should post them up to
the main website (there's only 2 thus far). while i'm available to give a
session (talk or codelab) for any events close to where i'm based (silicon
valley), i don't have the bandwidth to organize an entire event.
anyway, the standard pitch is given below.

cheers,
--wesley


Computer Science Education Week  <http://www.csedweek.org/> (December 9-13,
2012)  is about celebrating and creating visibility for the importance of
K-12 computer science education.  Although the advocacy work is US-focused, the
celebration includes events and activities from all around the world.

Many teachers engage students in special CS-related activities during
CSEdWeek itself, but CS-related activities take place all year long, and
CSEdWeek strives to recognize and celebrate them all.  To do this, we
invite you to pledge
support<http://www.csedweek.org/forms/sign/pledge-step1> for
CSEdWeek and post CS-related K-12 activities on the CSEdWeek web site.

The more events we show, the better equipped we'll be to make the case that
CS education is vitally important and deserves local, national, and
international support!

Please note that contact information is input in Step 1 and in Step 2 you
will be invited to add your event or other outreach activity.
http://www.csedweek.org/forms/sign/pledge-step1

-- 
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
"A computer never does what you want... only what you tell it."
    +wesley chun : wescpy at gmail : @wescpy
    Python training & consulting : http://CyberwebConsulting.com
    "Core Python" books : http://CorePython.com
    Python blog: http://wescpy.blogspot.com
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Sat Oct 20 03:21:21 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2012 18:21:21 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>

Still going.

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7909175

Ada Day posting:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 10:07 AM
Subject: Re: [Diversity] " How will [] free software be improved by being
developed by a bl ack transsexual woman ?"
To: K?ra <kxra at fsf.org>
Cc: women at lists.fedoraproject.org, ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com,
womoz at lists.womoz.org, issues at linuxchix.org, diversity at python.org,
womeninfreesoftware at gnu.org


On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 12:14 AM, K?ra <kxra at fsf.org> wrote:
> Yesterday was Ada Lovelace Day, and I wanted to bring up the types of
> views that we are up against right now. The quote in the subject line is
> one among many critical responses on Reddit to the Free Software
> Foundations post for Ada Lovelace Day.
>

FYI.

I wrote 'In Defense of Ada' some years ago, when a New Yorker article
(the cover article as I recall), tried to take back her "first
computer programmer" title / reputation and give it to someone else (a
guy).

http://www.grunch.net/synergetics/adaessay.html

The kind of diversity I work on most is attracting more non-English
speakers to open source / free software.  This includes many women of
course.

Kirby

On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 11:51 AM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2407414
>
> Interesting thread IMO.
>
> Kirby
>
>
> PS: also enjoying that Ada Day threads on Diversity (python.org)
>
>
>
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 06:41:22 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 21:41:22 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>

Capping the Math Forum thread with a blog post entry point:

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html  (I may
link back the other way -- not sure yet)

Also X-Ref:  Math 2.0:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mathfuture/bw7UfqqNk9w/oRRsA5YaY3IJ
(reply to a Pythonic Math teacher)

Kirby


On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:21 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Still going.
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7909175
>
> Ada Day posting:

From gerry.lowry at abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com  Thu Oct 25 12:00:34 2012
From: gerry.lowry at abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com (gerry lowry +1 705 429-7550 wasaga beach ontario canada)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 06:00:34 -0400
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>

Hello Kirby, i took a very brief look at your http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html.

There does not appear to be any way to comment at the above link.

there, i noticed your "More SQL too while we're at it" ..

imho, i think the time has come for less SQL via more LINQ. 

    Lions and tigers and bears, oh my! 
    Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
    Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!

LINQ is from the house that Bill built, however, see http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx

GOTO http://www.linqpad.net/ for a FREE awesome tool that also does SQL, including
LINQ <==> SQL translation in some cases.

PL/I died because it came from IBM and people hated IBM ...
ergo, the PL/I baby was tossed out with the bath water.

LINQ in spite of coming from "the evil empire" will not die
imho because LINQ has too much inertia and is also too good.

    -------------

i've mentioned this long time ago in one of the python forums
with regards to OLPC ... 

Kirby, your http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html
brings to mind iverson's "Notation as a Tool of Thought" wherein he quotes Whitehead:

    "By relieving the brain of all unnecessary work,
     a good notation sets it free to concentrate on more advanced problems, and
     in effect increases the mental power of the race."

i suggest that the tool for the notation be iverson's J (http://www.jsoftware.com/);

i suggest also that J can be taught K-12 (assuming we can teach teachers to teach, period*).

                      * a period is also a dot.

    -------------

BTW ............ FREE event:     APL at 50      2012.11.01

     York University, Ontario, Canada:  http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/apl50/index.html

    -------------

rgds/gerry

-- From: Edu-sig [mailto:edu-sig-bounces+gerry.lowry=abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com at python.org]
   On Behalf Of kirby urner   Sent: 2012 October 25 Thursday 00:41  To: edu-sig at python.org
Subject: Re: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)

Capping the Math Forum thread with a blog post entry point:

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html  (I may
link back the other way -- not sure yet)

Also X-Ref:  Math 2.0:

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/mathfuture/bw7UfqqNk9w/oRRsA5YaY3IJ
(reply to a Pythonic Math teacher)

Kirby

On Fri, Oct 19, 2012 at 6:21 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Still going.
>
> http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7909175
>
> Ada Day posting:
_______________________________________________
Edu-sig mailing list
Edu-sig at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig


From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Oct 25 18:17:45 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 09:17:45 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 3:00 AM, gerry lowry +1 705 429-7550 wasaga
beach ontario canada <gerry.lowry at abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
wrote:
> Hello Kirby, i took a very brief look at your http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html.
>
> There does not appear to be any way to comment at the above link.
>

Right, I've repurposed the blog format to serve my needs.  It's more a
journal and gives me brownie points within my "church" (Quakers are
expected to keep journals).

Turning on comments would mean an endless fight against bots (includes
humans who don't pass the Turning test) saying "wanna buy an iPod?"
all over my journal.  I always have ad words turned off too.

> there, i noticed your "More SQL too while we're at it" ..
>
> imho, i think the time has come for less SQL via more LINQ.
>
>     Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
>     Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
>     Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
>
> LINQ is from the house that Bill built, however, see http://www.linqpad.net/WhyLINQBeatsSQL.aspx
>
> GOTO http://www.linqpad.net/ for a FREE awesome tool that also does SQL, including
> LINQ <==> SQL translation in some cases.
>

There's always they "gotta understand what the ancestors" wrote argument.

I have no problem with the "this is SQL, this was the tabulation
system of choice for several generations, still used today, but now we
also have..." approach.

Hollerith machines also of interest, "keeping tabs" more generally.

> PL/I died because it came from IBM and people hated IBM ...
> ergo, the PL/I baby was tossed out with the bath water.
>

We do study about IBM's business machines' utility in Nazi Germany,
per my Pycon presentation of 2009 ("we" being my brand of STEM teacher
-- we study population genetics and the pseudo-sciences that adhere to
to this kind of study).

> LINQ in spite of coming from "the evil empire" will not die
> imho because LINQ has too much inertia and is also too good.
>
>     -------------
>
> i've mentioned this long time ago in one of the python forums
> with regards to OLPC ...
>
> Kirby, your http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/10/dot-notation-again.html
> brings to mind iverson's "Notation as a Tool of Thought" wherein he quotes Whitehead:
>
>     "By relieving the brain of all unnecessary work,
>      a good notation sets it free to concentrate on more advanced problems, and
>      in effect increases the mental power of the race."
>

Yes, APL was the first language I loved, and was interactive in a
console, whereas FORTRAN and PL/1 were more easily hated for not
having an REPL.

Later I went to dBase (dBase II... dBase IV, FoxPro, Visual FoxPro) --
always with an REPL.

Yes, Iverson's notion that a mathematical notation could (should) be
"machine executable" helped break down the prejudice that sees "math"
on the one hand and "computer languages" on the other (a dumb cultural
blindness).

I jumped into J pretty early, even before I got into Python.  I wrote
an article, 'Jiving in J' in which Kenneth Iverson himself helped
catch some typos:

http://www.4dsolutions.net/ocn/Jlang.html

> i suggest that the tool for the notation be iverson's J (http://www.jsoftware.com/);
>
> i suggest also that J can be taught K-12 (assuming we can teach teachers to teach, period*).
>
>                       * a period is also a dot.
>

We need students who can learn, period, is what we seemed to come to
at the Shuttleworth meeting.

http://mathforum.org/kb/message.jspa?messageID=7909704

This strategy doesn't hinge on getting the adult teachers up to speed.
 That's not likely to happen in most cases (teachers have no spare
time and in the US especially are not expected to innovate).

With a safe space to study, bandwidth, motivation, you don't need
anyone in your immediate radius to "know J" (or anything much of about
anything for that matter).

>     -------------
>
> BTW ............ FREE event:     APL at 50      2012.11.01
>
>      York University, Ontario, Canada:  http://www.cse.yorku.ca/museum/apl50/index.html
>

APL is wonderful.

However a lot of people who use it are just financial sector snobs who
want to be "indispensable" working for whatever investment house.
They love that it's cryptic and a barrier to mere mortals.  Perl
culture gets that way too.

Some coders want to write "precious" code that only they can read and
interpret at the end of the day.

I'm not a big fan of "cleverness for the sake of cleverness" although
I do like our bagpipe-playing unicyclist (a guy in the neighborhood).

Thanks for posting, sounds like we're on the same page to some degree.

Kirby

From mpaul213 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 16:08:25 2012
From: mpaul213 at gmail.com (michel paul)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 07:08:25 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
	<CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hey Kirby,

I've enjoyed the discussion, and of course I completely agree that dot
notation deserves attention in current math education. However, getting
that discussion going? Wow, from what I've seen ... it would be nearly
impossible. It would pretty much just get ignored.

Yesterday I was involved in a math education group at my school where an
example suggested for introducing 'function' was 'toast'. Basically, you
put bread into the toaster, and <magic/technology happens> out comes toast!
So 'toasting' is a function. Seems to make sense, right?

Well, sure, so long as you're allowing for mutation!  A slice of bread is
an object, and, like most objects, it can change its state. Makes total
sense.

However, is that really what they're thinking about? in traditional
mathematics, the kind they think they want to teach in school, variables
aren't supposed to change their values once assigned. That's a huge deal. The
discussion went on from the toaster to use an example like f(x) = x + 2,
let's say. You put in x, and out comes y. OK ... however, x is still x. x
did not become y. If you say x=5 then a little while later say x=7, well,
it sounds like you're running for office! So the analogy actually breaks
down. A math teacher would not want their students to develop the
misunderstanding that x turned into y. If you actually want to say that,
that's OK, we have developed ways to express that.

So it seems to me there are unrecognized conflicts in schoolish
mathematical thinking, and I believe discussion of dot notation and other
aspects of computational thinking could help shed light on them, could make
the unconscious conscious.

-- Michel

==================================
"What I cannot create, I do not understand."

- Richard Feynman
==================================
"Computer science is the new mathematics."

- Dr. Christos Papadimitriou
==================================
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 17:48:54 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 08:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
	<CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3Sb_FifjtfOdZPOQudXMDAQ-zPaEE5=BAPkroUYM5MH8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 7:08 AM, michel paul <mpaul213 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hey Kirby,
>
> I've enjoyed the discussion, and of course I completely agree that dot
> notation deserves attention in current math education. However, getting
> that discussion going? Wow, from what I've seen ... it would be nearly
> impossible. It would pretty much just get ignored.
>
>
Well, at least we're talking here.

My mom's theory is you can't get anyone's attention about anything anymore
because we're all high on sugar.

She grew up overseas a lot where they don't have so much sugar in
everything.  She thinks US kids might as well be on meth, that's how far
gone.  No wonder they're out there shooting it up like no other culture.
Sugar Pops!


> Yesterday I was involved in a math education group at my school where an
> example suggested for introducing 'function' was 'toast'. Basically, you
> put bread into the toaster, and <magic/technology happens> out comes toast!
> So 'toasting' is a function. Seems to make sense, right?
>
>
Hah.  "Toast" is interesting as in English it's both a verb and a noun.
"To toast", "make toast", "was toasted".

I do like linking "functions" to "verb things that do stuff" i.e. they're
active, though another picture of a function is "a map", which is more
static, like a dict.

What might confuse some students is how Python in particular uses builtin
"range" to create what we would typically call a "domain" in Algebra 1.

f = lambda x:  x * x + 2
mapping = dict ((x, f(x)) for x in range(10))

One could toggle the namespace and just go:

domain = range  # assignment of a synonym i.e. mapping = dict ((x, f(x))
for x in domain(10))



> Well, sure, so long as you're allowing for mutation!  A slice of bread is
> an object, and, like most objects, it can change its state. Makes total
> sense.
>
> However, is that really what they're thinking about? in traditional
> mathematics, the kind they think they want to teach in school, variables
> aren't supposed to change their values once assigned. That's a huge deal. The
> discussion went on from the toaster to use an example like f(x) = x + 2,
> let's say. You put in x, and out comes y. OK ... however, x is still x. x
> did not become y. If you say x=5 then a little while later say x=7, well,
> it sounds like you're running for office! So the analogy actually breaks
> down. A math teacher would not want their students to develop the
> misunderstanding that x turned into y. If you actually want to say that,
> that's OK, we have developed ways to express that.
>
>
Probably where you'll get a lot of overlap is in geometry.  A tetrahedron
of vertexes P,Q,R,S rotating in space, will have changing (x,y,z)
coordinates for each of its vertexes.  We can speak of P.x, P.y, P.z
without too much fear of ridicule by the snoots (math heads -- they tend to
be snooty, whereas engineers are maybe more snarky).


> So it seems to me there are unrecognized conflicts in schoolish
> mathematical thinking, and I believe discussion of dot notation and other
> aspects of computational thinking could help shed light on them, could make
> the unconscious conscious.
>
> -- Michel
>
>
I support these deep dives into what might be cognitive dissonance issues.

Right off the bat, the Python types.FunctionType is not some classic
Dolciani type thing, guaranteed not not be a relation.

It's a related namespace (Python's is, to Dolciani's) but not identical.

However, contrast is information, which is why the Lex Institute for
teaching languages (of 'Who is Fourier?' fame) recommends learning more
than one language at once.  The brain learns from differences, contrasts,
and having these little deltas all over the place, separating namespaces
that are clearly close on some level (like the Latin-based languages) is
highly informative and conducive to learning.  So goes the theory.

Ergo:  teaching schoolish math in tandem with something a little different,
call it industrial math, or aerospace math, or STEM math, could be just the
ticket.

Unless of course your high on sugar (e.g. had Sugar Pops for breakfast),
then just forgeddaboutit.

Kirby
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From litvin at skylit.com  Fri Oct 26 17:03:00 2012
From: litvin at skylit.com (Litvin)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:03:00 -0400
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
	<CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20121026110044.08417530@skylit.com>

At 10:08 AM 10/26/2012, michel paul wrote:
>Yesterday I was involved in a math education group at my school 
>where an example suggested for introducing 'function' was 'toast'. 
>Basically, you put bread into the toaster, and <magic/technology 
>happens> out comes toast! So 'toasting' is a function. Seems to make 
>sense, right?

Then eating a piece of toast is an example of function composition? 
:)  And what would be the inverse function? :)

Gary
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From mpaul213 at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 20:18:47 2012
From: mpaul213 at gmail.com (michel paul)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:18:47 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20121026110044.08417530@skylit.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
	<CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20121026110044.08417530@skylit.com>
Message-ID: <CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Beautiful!

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Litvin <litvin at skylit.com> wrote:

>  At 10:08 AM 10/26/2012, michel paul wrote:
>
> Yesterday I was involved in a math education group at my school where an
> example suggested for introducing 'function' was 'toast'. Basically, you
> put bread into the toaster, and <magic/technology happens> out comes toast!
> So 'toasting' is a function. Seems to make sense, right?
>
>
> Then eating a piece of toast is an example of function composition? :)
> And what would be the inverse function? :)
>
> Gary
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>
>


-- 
==================================
"What I cannot create, I do not understand."

- Richard Feynman
==================================
"Computer science is the new mathematics."

- Dr. Christos Papadimitriou
==================================
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Fri Oct 26 21:50:47 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 12:50:47 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPJgG3TCv9=iUZZRTEeSMZt_EAG1iGosJtaBc+zLPh4LQVMjJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RN+QusMx8e4KdzASazR1V=bvm07P6kiqxVcw3fMqFrwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAPJgG3RxWiDz3e7dFCLW_=NMX0mdy9js_YwY4ju2+fbXPL_Bxg@mail.gmail.com>
	<049e01cdb297$95aef750$c10ce5f0$@abilitybusinesscomputerservices.com>
	<CAPJgG3RAsWcfM2LMccF20-LAxBB=2SsNaVcPPRw+Wbsjh-DE8w@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+AedF-kjTcn4RZh87JpC3_4eYb9myKrB_L0Y0zozrN85Uns2Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20121026110044.08417530@skylit.com>
	<CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3RNS1e+T1qbMMSUKBb9PJZQ-w5715fePUKyTReT1TnQ6g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 11:18 AM, michel paul <mpaul213 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Beautiful!
>

Many functions are irreversible, tiz true.

digested (chewed (toasted ( m ) ) ) -->  encrypted

Good luck getting the plaintext back out again.  Talk about lossy compression.

Kirby


>> Then eating a piece of toast is an example of function composition? :)
>> And what would be the inverse function? :)
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Edu-sig mailing list
>> Edu-sig at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ==================================
> "What I cannot create, I do not understand."
>
> - Richard Feynman
> ==================================
> "Computer science is the new mathematics."
>
> - Dr. Christos Papadimitriou
> ==================================
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig
>

From calcpage at aol.com  Mon Oct 29 16:31:58 2012
From: calcpage at aol.com (A. Jorge Garcia)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 11:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CF8401AB10DAEA-17C8-4BBEC@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com>

(Apologies if you've read this already. I posted it from my cell last 
week but I don't see it in the edu-sig forum archives.)

It is such a battle at both the High School and College levels of Math 
to try anything new. All the traditional Algebraic and Graphing 
Calculator techniques are so ingrained that it's nearly impossible to 
change anything from what is taught to how it is taught! This inertia 
is most evident from the resistance you see from other teachers, 
professors and administrators. Perhaps, I have only myself to blame, as 
I was one of the first adopters of Graphing Calculators in the 1990s in 
my schools and now I'm trying to get everyone to use python/SAGE on PCs 
instead.

So, imagine my surprise when said resistance came from my students this 
year! I have successfully incorporated python/SAGE into my CS 
curriculum without any such resistance. That change was easy as all we 
do in CS is code on PCs. We don't use Graphing Calculators very much in 
preCS or APCS anyeay. Well, this year, I had the bright idea of using 
python/SAGE in any Math class without a terminal exam, such as Regents 
and AP, involving Graphing Calculators. In NYS, kids need to work with 
Graphing Calculators all year in order to do well on Regents and AP 
exams in Math and Science. However, I have a preCalc class that doesn't 
answer to Regents or AP Exams. So, I tried to ween them off the GC but 
the kids are so used to using GCs as a crutch that it's been quite a 
slog through the mud!

BTW, if you're interested, here's a YouTube Playlist I just started 
recording from my preCS class using python/SAGE and the Litvin's 
Discrete Math text (http://skylit.com/mathandpython.html): 
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLL956Pn2cKSgLHSxQLPO6YIQ8VlxLPNgc&feature=plcp

HTH,
A. Jorge Garcia
Applied Math, Physics and CS
http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009



From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Oct 29 20:49:22 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:49:22 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] "dot notation" (in favor of sharing it)
In-Reply-To: <8CF8401AB10DAEA-17C8-4BBEC@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com>
References: <CA+AedF9CciCaGYU0uRW5279v5xLNEdUNCvG1T=JcTTX1beiWxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CF8401AB10DAEA-17C8-4BBEC@webmail-d090.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3SAgPr7naXbgmiue8yCAWEaUvN13-4YgH-5v1aiLFOMvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I really like the traffic on edu-sig as I sense the whirl-winds from
here.  Nice overlook.

True story:  this summer I did another Martian Math class, a short fun
experience for self selected mid-teens with a penchant for math and
things academic, so there by choice, on a bright summer's day, but
only for five days, the last one with the guardians/parents coming in
and see what's been happening.

University of Portland let me use its very best facility,
semi-circular desks, up to date PCs, switches to open and close the
blinds, a projector, great sound, adapters for external laptops as
well as the instructor version...  wow, what a great setup!

However, here's the thing:  I'm working through a nonprofit agency
that piggy-packs on willing colleges and university (Oregon Graduate
Institute, Portland State, Reed College...) and so has to communicate
as aliens, non-campus in some ways.  Martian Math needed VPython if I
were to run all my prepared demos (which the students could fiddle
with).  I have my heart set on Vpython, yet the IDLE for it wouldn't
work, not at all.  No one had tested it.  It was added last minute,
when I sent around my memo "you remembered about VPython right?"

Bottom line:  we could import it in a terminal window version of
Python, if we added the path to sys.path to a remote subdirectory.  A
major pain and I spent quite a few minutes (spread out) apologizing
for the awkward setup and saying how, if they did this at home,
everything would be smoother.  Because that's what I hoped, that
they'd do this at home.

Which brings me to the moral of my story:  if your organizational
setup is just a little too complicated, then chances are it's just too
impractical to get all the pieces in place.  You'll spend energy and
get some of it working, but the lingering frustrations will remain
significant.

What you start to approximate is that "ideal home environment" that
you hope each student will be cocooning in for real studying.  School
is just a place to get ideas to then go off with and learn about.
It's too distracting and frustrating to really expect to get much
studying done, not in a classroom surely.

"Just give us stuff to study and let us come to your for help."
That's the flipped classroom and perhaps the developing model more
generally.  We'll give you stuff to chew on at the school, but you're
expected to do a lot of studying on your own somewhere else, like in
your "dorm" (wherever you go to sleep and relax).

That's the college model though, and with younger kids I think the
feeling has been it doesn't really work that way.

I will end with two responses to that objection:

(1) although I've cast this as a generational picture, there's nothing
to stop adults from learning more Python / Sage / Mathematics were
they to have the time and motivation, and that might happen to a
greater degree in this shifting sands picture, i.e. our primary
clients for all this content are / will be adults in many situations,
and just because one works with kids (say 21 and under) today, doesn't
mean one's only contribution is to the kid-ed biz in the long run.

(2) The virtual classroom you get at home is not necessarily an
entirely solo environment, removed from peer pressure to perform and
to do team work.  A buzzing coffee shop is a less formal setting, like
a student center.  The smartphones are coming along quickly but the
tablets even faster (still more innovation happening).  So we have
that moving target to aim for.  I have a scientific calculator on my
Razr / M.  As an adult, I wouldn't be bullied into exchanging it for a
TI.

We showed a lot of Youtubes with good sound quality.  Mandelbrots and
Mandelbulbs especially.  We got VPython working well enough.  Great
class.  The guardians/parents were impressed.  Thank you University of
Portland and Saturday Academy.  Blog writeup is here:

http://worldgame.blogspot.com/2012/08/adventures-in-teaching-and-driving.html
(tedious geographic details about driving, suggest skipping, only gets
into Python towards the bottom, but the pictures are good).

Kirby

On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 8:31 AM, A. Jorge Garcia <calcpage at aol.com> wrote:
> (Apologies if you've read this already. I posted it from my cell last week
> but I don't see it in the edu-sig forum archives.)
>
> It is such a battle at both the High School and College levels of Math to
> try anything new. All the traditional Algebraic and Graphing Calculator
> techniques are so ingrained that it's nearly impossible to change anything
> from what is taught to how it is taught! This inertia is most evident from
> the resistance you see from other teachers, professors and administrators.
> Perhaps, I have only myself to blame, as I was one of the first adopters of
> Graphing Calculators in the 1990s in my schools and now I'm trying to get
> everyone to use python/SAGE on PCs instead.
>
> So, imagine my surprise when said resistance came from my students this
> year! I have successfully incorporated python/SAGE into my CS curriculum
> without any such resistance. That change was easy as all we do in CS is code
> on PCs. We don't use Graphing Calculators very much in preCS or APCS anyeay.
> Well, this year, I had the bright idea of using python/SAGE in any Math
> class without a terminal exam, such as Regents and AP, involving Graphing
> Calculators. In NYS, kids need to work with Graphing Calculators all year in
> order to do well on Regents and AP exams in Math and Science. However, I
> have a preCalc class that doesn't answer to Regents or AP Exams. So, I tried
> to ween them off the GC but the kids are so used to using GCs as a crutch
> that it's been quite a slog through the mud!
>
> BTW, if you're interested, here's a YouTube Playlist I just started
> recording from my preCS class using python/SAGE and the Litvin's Discrete
> Math text (http://skylit.com/mathandpython.html):
> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLL956Pn2cKSgLHSxQLPO6YIQ8VlxLPNgc&feature=plcp
>
> HTH,
> A. Jorge Garcia
> Applied Math, Physics and CS
> http://shadowfaxrant.blogspot.com
> http://www.youtube.com/calcpage2009
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Edu-sig mailing list
> Edu-sig at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/edu-sig

From thomas at koch.ro  Wed Oct 31 17:02:58 2012
From: thomas at koch.ro (Thomas Koch)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 17:02:58 +0100
Subject: [Edu-sig] python vs processing for introducing programming?
In-Reply-To: <506238F1.6040306@verizon.net>
References: <506238F1.6040306@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <201210311702.59921.thomas@koch.ro>

Hi,

I'm just becoming a teacher, but I've seen a collegue teaching processing and 
observed a few things that I don't like about it:

- Processing comes with it's own IDE and the files you're writing are embedded 
in the real programming. The pupils don't have any change to get an overview 
of the "program". With a small python script OTOH, there's just the script and 
that's it.

- Adding external (image) files to a processing program has puzzled the pubils 
and me too. You can't just download to your home folder and refer to a file 
with the filesystem path. Processing bundles your project to a java jar and so 
the downloaded files need to be added through the IDE.

- Processing has some very ugly, global state and procedural idioms that I'd 
prefer not to teach to my students, like:
  textFont(letterGothic, 32); // sets the global text style
  text("word", 10, 50); // outputs text

  a more object oriented way would look something like

  style = new TextStyle(WHATEVER);
  style.print(WHATEVER);

- Processing confronts the students with functions from day one, because all 
code must be embedded in one of two functions (setup and draw, IIRC).

Regards,

Thomas Koch, http://www.koch.ro

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Oct 31 18:52:19 2012
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2012 10:52:19 -0700
Subject: [Edu-sig] python vs processing for introducing programming?
In-Reply-To: <201210311702.59921.thomas@koch.ro>
References: <506238F1.6040306@verizon.net> <201210311702.59921.thomas@koch.ro>
Message-ID: <CAPJgG3QeQenyHx7Yrchw5dSS9ALKJHFUbCnr4-Wij-7TdY6jhw@mail.gmail.com>

I hope you stick around Thomas.  I'm one of the old timers here but
not a list owner or moderator.

My initial recruitment into Python was through my search for ways to
do 3D (spatial) geometry in cool ways + Guido's on-line CP4E essay.
The web was just getting going and there was a paucity of polyhedrons
out there in jpeg or gif format.  I used to count how many.

Later when it looked like I was using the term "CP4E" in new ways I
changed it to "P4E" (dropping C) to distinguish it from Guido's, and
"HP4E" which is kinda technical (hexapent is a way of dividing the
surface of a sphere, new book called Divided Spheres, a primer to Ed
Popko, has me in the biblio).

As far as Processing goes, my ears perked up at a party recently, some
young and cool dudes chatting, one of them raving about Processing.  I
wanted to but in but wasn't sure how, so I just listened.  I've
admired how Ruby may be used to program Google Sketchup.  "What might
Processing do *for me*" I wonder, greedily rubbing my hands.

My general sense is we don't need to shield students from nasty
aspects of whatever languages as they'll initially / naturally want to
try many, and we should encourage that adventuresome impulse that says
"I'll trying anything once".  They'll inevitably encounter VBA, old
(even new) FoxPro code, lots of Java in the course of bouncing around
in our worlds.

We hope also Scheme, maybe even some J who knows.  I've got Haskell
running on my Mac finally, and find lots of similarities with Python,
even though they're across the "static typing" divide from one another
(their both typed, just Python's type system is more open to duck
types).

New languages are coming along.  At the latest OSCON, it was all about
Go for me (the new language).  I'm mostly just dabbling, as my
training has encouraged me to do.

Python brings some gravitas to the classroom in that we already see it
as "world dominating" in the sense of having lots of real jobs doing
important stuff in many walks of life.

Python is a masterful invention, used with appreciation by code
wranglers around the world.

There's an analogy with English:  would as many people attempt this
difficult language if it was only the great poetry and Shakespeare at
the end of the tunnel.  No.  It's worthwhile to learn because it's so
widely used for everyday communications.  Otherwise why put up with
all that crazy spelling with idioms galore.  English is like the Perl
of human languages, concise to the point of cryptic mixed with verbose
and out of control (the skill of the coder matters so much -- in Java
they tried to make the boilerplate stronger).

My own freshman course in programming (engineering department) was a
wild ride through a whole bunch of languages:  FORTRAN, APL (my
favorite of the bunch), PL/1, SNOBOL, LISP, Assembler (simulated).
Not much OO because this was 1970s and Smalltalk was not running on
our IBM 360/370 I don't think.  I had to pay visits to PDPs and other
labs to try other tools, such as Tektronix graphics terminals (with
and extended version of APL as I recall), really rad.

However this was just me being "well rounded" as a liberal arts kinda guy.

I was anchoring in the philo department (Princeton had a good one, but
the engineering was good too).

Anyway, to make a long story short, POV-Ray was the free renderer of
choice, available on CompuServ with its own kind of Open License.

To write scripts for it, though, was tedious, so the job was to use
scripting languages to spew out "scene description language" (plugging
values in to boilerplate).

That became a back end for VRML output as well.

The kind of coding I was doing anticipated a way more mature project
called AntiPrism by Adrian Rossiter, which I believe was used for many
of the pictures in the Popko book cited above.

Kirby