From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 4 13:15:40 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:15:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference Message-ID: <20020204141540.C304@carolo.net> As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL http://europython.p3b.org It's far from perfect, but that's the best one online ;-) What about europython.org ? Who wants to contribute ? Any news (Martijn, Ivo, ...) Regards, -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From tim@2wave.net Tue Feb 5 12:12:02 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:12:02 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020205121202.87399.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> > > As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL > http://europython.p3b.org > It's far from perfect, but that's the best one > online ;-) A great start! I'll put a notice up about this page this morning at Python 10. > > What about europython.org ? > Who wants to contribute ? I'm unsure who is/are the "point person(s)" for the Europython conference, so I'll use the group to offer my assistance in giving time to make the EuroPython conference a success. If someone could get in touch with me about the roles that need filling, I'll see if any fit my skillset. Please refer to Marc-Andre for a character reference :-) Tim Dr Tim Couper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From tim@2wave.net Tue Feb 5 12:13:19 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:13:19 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> > > As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL > http://europython.p3b.org > It's far from perfect, but that's the best one > online ;-) A great start! I'll put a notice up about this page this morning at Python 10. > > What about europython.org ? > Who wants to contribute ? I'm unsure who is/are the "point person(s)" for the Europython conference, so I'll use the group to offer my assistance in giving time to make the EuroPython conference a success. If someone could get in touch with me about the roles that need filling, I'll see if any fit my skillset. Please refer to Marc-Andre for a character reference :-) Tim Dr Tim Couper __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 5 15:06:37 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:06:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference References: <20020205121202.87399.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C5FF4FD.C2AE83B9@lemburg.com> Tim Couper wrote: > > > > > As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL > > http://europython.p3b.org > > It's far from perfect, but that's the best one > > online ;-) > > A great start! Indeed. I would recommend to redirect the europython.org domain until europython.org is installed and ready to run. PS: Please don't forget to post the official announcement to comp.lang.python.announce and the other widely known news services such as LWN, Linux Today, O'Reilly, various magazines (e.g. PyZine), , etc. If you have the official wording of the announcement settled, please let me know. Then I'll try to run it by a few magazines here in Germany (e.g. Heise's c't, iX etc.). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Feb 5 15:59:13 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 16:59:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1012924752.3c60015102520@webmail.in-berlin.de> Tim Couper : > > As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL > > http://europython.p3b.org > > It's far from perfect, but that's the best one > > online ;-) > > A great start! Yes, it is - especially the cartoon! ;-) Unless I'm the only one slightly confused about this, I suggest to refocus the wording just a bit to say if the conference is mainly about Python ("Euro-Python") or mainly about Zope ("European Python-Zope Developers") or equally well about both. In fact, I see eurozope.org for the first time now, be- ing mentioned in the URL lists, but I guess this does not make it clearer, at least not to me. OTOH, if everybody else is much smarter than I am, then please forget what I wrote... Regards, Dinu From paul@zope.com Wed Feb 6 11:54:01 2002 From: paul@zope.com (Paul Everitt) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 06:54:01 -0500 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference References: <20020205121202.87399.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C611959.2000807@zope.com> FYI, I printed a formatted version of the text supplied by Martijn and handed out around 100 copies yesterday. I also put it on a slide announcing upcoming events. --Paul Tim Couper wrote: >>As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL >>http://europython.p3b.org >>It's far from perfect, but that's the best one >>online ;-) >> > > A great start! I'll put a notice up about this page > this morning at Python 10. > >>What about europython.org ? >>Who wants to contribute ? >> > > I'm unsure who is/are the "point person(s)" for the > Europython conference, so I'll use the group to offer > my assistance in giving time to make the EuroPython > conference a success. If someone could get in touch > with me about the roles that need filling, I'll see if > any fit my skillset. Please refer to Marc-Andre for a > character reference :-) > > Tim > > Dr Tim Couper > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 6 12:58:06 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:58:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference References: <20020205121202.87399.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> <3C611959.2000807@zope.com> Message-ID: <3C61285E.ADE50C50@lemburg.com> Paul Everitt wrote: > > FYI, I printed a formatted version of the text supplied by Martijn and > handed out around 100 copies yesterday. I also put it on a slide > announcing upcoming events. Thanks, Paul ! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 7 10:55:08 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:55:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <1012924752.3c60015102520@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> <1012924752.3c60015102520@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020207105508.GA9397@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Yes, it is - especially the cartoon! ;-) > > Unless I'm the only one slightly confused about this, > I suggest to refocus the wording just a bit to say if > the conference is mainly about Python ("Euro-Python") > or mainly about Zope ("European Python-Zope Developers") > or equally well about both. > > In fact, I see eurozope.org for the first time now, be- > ing mentioned in the URL lists, but I guess this does > not make it clearer, at least not to me. > > OTOH, if everybody else is much smarter than I am, then > please forget what I wrote... It's a good question; many people will have this concern. I *tried* to make Python prominent as I think it's absolutely essential to say 'Python' primarily and Zope only secondarily so as we get as broad a range of Pythoneers as possible. But of course many of the organizers know each other from the European Zope community, so the effects are going to show. When I start mailing the press release to all the places Marc-Andre was suggesting (today and tomorrow).. I'll just try to add a bit before talking about this. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 7 11:05:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:05:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020205121319.16403.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020207110504.GB9397@vet.uu.nl> Tim Couper wrote: > > > > As promised, I started to setup a page at the URL > > http://europython.p3b.org > > It's far from perfect, but that's the best one > > online ;-) > > A great start! I'll put a notice up about this page > this morning at Python 10. What's the status on the www.europython.org site? Last I knew I'd made all the right people talk to each other... :) I'd like to get that one up and running asap. > > What about europython.org ? > > Who wants to contribute ? > > I'm unsure who is/are the "point person(s)" for the > Europython conference, so I'll use the group to offer > my assistance in giving time to make the EuroPython > conference a success. The group is really the point person, but I suppose I could be described as one of the organizers, so message received. Thanks! You can offer immediate assistance in figuring out what happened with europython.org. Talk to: ivo@amaze.nl (Ivo van Wijk from Amaze, zope hosting provider in the Netherlands who offered to host it) Thomas Reulbach , has the domain, is willing to do whatever is required to make it all work. Nicolas Pettiaux -- since Nicolas is organizing all kinds of important stuff this month we can expect less from him; you'd be replacing him in trying to put the website together. And Denis () who has a website up already. We need to move the material over there to a few pages on the www.europython.org site as soon as possible. And get rid of the 'Developers' word in the conference title as I see it on the web page. The conference title is as it's in the press release, and can be shortened to EuroPython (2002). Your job would be to nag everybody until it works, hopefully by today or tomorrow. Then you can get back to me and others over here so we can flesh out some more of the text that should go on this site. > If someone could get in touch > with me about the roles that need filling, I'll see if > any fit my skillset. Please refer to Marc-Andre for a > character reference :-) Hm, well, the first thing that was in my mind was the role I described just now. Once that's moving along we can come up with something better. Regards, Martijn (too busy to nag :) From tim@2wave.net Thu Feb 7 13:37:55 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 13:37:55 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <20020207110504.GB9397@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020207133755.9930.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> OK Martijn, I've started the e-investigation. I'll be out of contact for the rest of today with travel 'n' all, but should be back in contact Friday. For the newsgroup, it would be really great if some of the good people mentioned below could email me anyway :-) Tim --- Martijn Faassen wrote: >> Tim Couper wrote: > You can offer immediate assistance in figuring out > what happened with > europython.org. Talk to: > > ivo@amaze.nl (Ivo van Wijk from Amaze, zope hosting > provider in the > Netherlands who offered to host it) > > Thomas Reulbach , has the > domain, is willing to > do whatever is required to make it all work. > > Nicolas Pettiaux -- > since Nicolas is organizing > all kinds of important stuff this month we can > expect less from him; > you'd be replacing him in trying to put the website > together. > > And Denis () who has a > website up already. We > need to move the material over there to a few pages > on the www.europython.org > site as soon as possible. And get rid of the > 'Developers' word in the > conference title as I see it on the web page. The > conference title is as it's > in the press release, and can be shortened to > EuroPython (2002). > > Your job would be to nag everybody until it works, > hopefully by today or > tomorrow. Then you can get back to me and others > over here so we can > flesh out some more of the text that should go on > this site. > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 7 14:02:35 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:02:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <20020207133755.9930.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020207110504.GB9397@vet.uu.nl> <20020207133755.9930.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020207140235.GA9892@vet.uu.nl> Tim Couper wrote: > OK Martijn, I've started the e-investigation. I'll be > out of contact for the rest of today with travel 'n' > all, but should be back in contact Friday. For the > newsgroup, it would be really great if some of the > good people mentioned below could email me anyway :-) I just heard from Ivo that Nicolas has the login info, and just got the login info from Ivo myself, whee! If people want an account on the site, currently europython.zope.nl until pending DNS changes, please mail me and I'll make you manager. Then next job needs to be the repointing of www.europython.org. Thomas Reulbach needs to talk to Ivo. Ivo suggested changing the DNS records but Thomas hasn't responded to him yet on that, he said. cc of this mail going to Thomas Reulbach; please mail to ivo@amaze.nl on that or any other solution that'll get www.europython.org into the air as soon as possible? I'll put up a little site for starters with the press release. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 7 14:36:06 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:36:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the website Message-ID: <20020207143606.GA10054@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, A very minimal website is now at europython.zope.nl, to be renamed to www.europython.org as soon as possible. I've just put up a (slightly modified) press release. Any comments on that should go to the list soon, as I'll be sending it out to the world shortly. Anyone with particular skill and desire to help out with the site design should mail me for a Zope login. Watch this space for announcements, as I'll be passing off the responsibility of handling the technical details of that site as well as the design off to various other folks as soon as I can. :) I will however be helping to organize the contents of the site. The next bit after the press release will be a call for papers. Since I seem to be heading the program committee as well, um..who wants to help with that? I need someone to lead the Zope track (and you will have one speaker already: me..can talk about Zope and XML as well as Formulator), and folks to help with the Python track. Also if people want to do tutorials please come up with some ideas. :) Perhaps a Formulator tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea in fact.. Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 7 16:46:04 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:46:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the website References: <20020207143606.GA10054@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C62AF4C.6D995E90@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > The next > bit after the press release will be a call for papers. Since I seem to > be heading the program committee as well, um..who wants to help with that? > I need someone to lead the Zope track (and you will have one speaker already: > me..can talk about Zope and XML as well as Formulator), and folks to help with > the Python track. Also if people want to do tutorials please come up with > some ideas. :) Perhaps a Formulator tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea in > fact.. I could help organize one of the Python tracks... which topics are we talking about ? I'd be interested in a web services track (even though there is currently one at IPC10, this is a hot subject). Another topic I'd be interested in is "Python and Business" -- this could be a discussion or a lightning talks session. The basic idea is to talk about problems and solution managers and developers face in everyday business when dealing with Python in project settings, e.g. how to convince a manager to use Python instead of FooBar in a project, epxerience with various business models built around Python, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 7 19:22:51 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 20:22:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference program (was: the website) In-Reply-To: <3C62AF4C.6D995E90@lemburg.com> References: <20020207143606.GA10054@vet.uu.nl> <3C62AF4C.6D995E90@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020207192251.GA11059@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > > The next > > bit after the press release will be a call for papers. Since I seem to > > be heading the program committee as well, um..who wants to help with that? > > I need someone to lead the Zope track (and you will have one speaker already: > > me..can talk about Zope and XML as well as Formulator), and folks to help with > > the Python track. Also if people want to do tutorials please come up with > > some ideas. :) Perhaps a Formulator tutorial wouldn't be a bad idea in > > fact.. > > I could help organize one of the Python tracks... which topics > are we talking about ? I'd be interested in a web services track > (even though there is currently one at IPC10, this is a hot > subject). Perhaps the first question to answer would be 'how many tracks are we going to have'? We were thinking unambitiously about a Python track and a Zope track, as well as tutorials and BoFs, but if: * we expect sufficient speakers * we expect sufficient attendees * we expect sufficient interest * and we have enough room We could run two or more Python tracks. > Another topic I'd be interested in is "Python and Business" -- > this could be a discussion or a lightning talks session. > The basic idea is to talk about problems and solution managers and developers > face in everyday business when dealing with Python in project > settings, e.g. how to convince a manager to use Python instead of > FooBar in a project, epxerience with various business models > built around Python, etc. Yes, this sounds good for a BoF with some structure (some speakers). Regards, Martijn From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Fri Feb 8 05:29:41 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:29:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] www.europython.org web site coordination Message-ID: Dear all, This message (included the necessary management information loke login an= d =20 password) has been sent to Denis and Martijn for further care has they ar= e=20 more active than I am. I should get back on the list soon. Thank you all for your work. Best regards, and keep on the good work, Nicolas ---------- Message transmis ---------- Subject: Fwd: Re: www.europython.org coordination Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:13:25 +0100 From: Nicolas Pettiaux To: Martijn Faassen , Denis Frere Dear Martijn and Denis, I have received this mail 2 days ago from Ivo at Amaze. I just had no time since to do anything. Now, I see The Great Denis is back on track, he has preapared a first bas= ic site at europyhton.os3b.org, you have already done much other things and = are talking on the europyhton list faster than I can react. I propos therefore to retract from the proposed starting maintenance of t= he site as I am unable to follow (I am just too bad at that, hence too slow,= and now there are other people - you) I'll get back to work with you on the program soon, but let you do the we= b activities if possible. Please not the this message contains a password, hence I cannot publish i= t to the europython list. Do use it the base way you can. Best regards, Nicolas ------ Re: europython.org ... Date : Tue, 5 Feb 2002 12:57:28 +0100 De : Ivo van der Wijk =C0 : Nicolas Pettiaux Hi, I've setup a zope hosting account for you. It can be accessed through http://europython.zope.nl/manage=A0with username XXXXXXXXX and password ZZZZZZZZZZ Once the www A record for europython points to ip 213.244.176.141, this should work as well. With regards, =A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0Ivo On Wed, Jan 30, 2002 at 05:13:09AM +0100, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=A0Le Mercredi 30 Janvier 2002 01:14, Thomas Reulbach a =E9crit : >=A0 >=A0Thank you very much for your mail. >=A0 >=A0> as I stated earlier in mails to Martijn and Ivo it is absolutely no problem >=A0> to point the domain europython.org to a zopeserver with the confere= nce >=A0> website. Just send me an address and I will be pleased to do so to = give > it > a start. >=A0 >=A0I just have had no time to take care of the problem. >=A0 >=A0Could Ivo setup a basic site to which europython.org would be pointin= g, so >=A0that I can start to fill it in next week with information about the >=A0conference. >=A0 >=A0> If you would like to have a german translation or some proofreading= for the >=A0> website I would be willing to do so, too. Looking forward. >=A0 >=A0Thank you for your help. >=A0 >=A0Best regards, >=A0 >=A0Nicolas >=A0> Thomas ---------- Message transmis ---------- Subject: Re: www.europython.org coordination Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:12:24 +0100 From: Ivo van der Wijk To: Nicolas Pettiaux Cc: Martijn Faassen , Thomas Reulbach , Denis Frere Hi all, > Yes, I'll start to put there a little page and basis information. > > Could you give me access to this zope site and install as product (the > first one I need : structured text) I will setup a Zope folder asap. What exactly do you need with structured text? Zope supports stx by default, but there's also a ZClass product called StructuredText - do you want this installed? Also, for the DNS hosting, there are 2 options: - make eurozope.org/www.eurozope.org point to our webserver (213.244.176.= 131) or - Amaze becomes authoritative DNS for the entire zone. Also, if we need to do mailhosting as well, MX records have to be configu= red as well, so the latter option might be the easiest. With regards, =09Ivo van der Wijk --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Fri Feb 8 05:31:57 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:31:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website for the Conference In-Reply-To: <3C611959.2000807@zope.com> References: <20020205121202.87399.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> <3C611959.2000807@zope.com> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 6 F=E9vrier 2002 12:54, Paul Everitt a =E9crit : > FYI, I printed a formatted version of the text supplied by Martijn and > handed out around 100 copies yesterday. I also put it on a slide > announcing upcoming events. > > --Paul Thanks Paul. Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Fri Feb 8 05:39:11 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 06:39:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. Message-ID: THe ASWAD team has had much success in preparing its documents for a rece= nt=20 proposal directly in structured text in a cmf wiki prepared by Alastair B= urt=20 (thanks again Alastair). THanks to him, it was possible to extract=20 automatically the text into a pdf of html file to be exported or mailed. Maybe the commitee, made of the active membres so far, MA Lemburg, Tim=20 Cooper, Martijn, Denis, Andy Robinson and maybe myself too, could use suc= h a=20 tool to prepare the document we shall need: press release very soon, prog= rams=20 and other. I would suggest putting a TODO management tool (what has to be done, with= =20 what urgency/priority, who will do it ...) in place too. I don't know suc= h a=20 zope tool yet, but I am very intrested in getting to know such a product,= and=20 I would suspect it not to be too difficult to develop in zope for someone= who=20 knows zope better than I am. Best regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From sf@fermigier.com Fri Feb 8 10:27:03 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 11:27:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. In-Reply-To: ; from nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org on Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 06:39:11AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20020208112703.E95802@math.jussieu.fr> On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 06:39:11AM +0100, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > THe ASWAD team has had much success in preparing its documents for a re= cent=20 > proposal directly in structured text in a cmf wiki prepared by Alastair= Burt=20 > (thanks again Alastair). THanks to him, it was possible to extract=20 > automatically the text into a pdf of html file to be exported or mailed. >=20 > Maybe the commitee, made of the active membres so far, MA Lemburg, Tim=20 > Cooper, Martijn, Denis, Andy Robinson and maybe myself too, could use s= uch a=20 > tool to prepare the document we shall need: press release very soon, pr= ograms=20 > and other. >=20 > I would suggest putting a TODO management tool (what has to be done, wi= th=20 > what urgency/priority, who will do it ...) in place too. I don't know s= uch a=20 > zope tool yet, but I am very intrested in getting to know such a produc= t, and=20 > I would suspect it not to be too difficult to develop in zope for someo= ne who=20 > knows zope better than I am. Right. But I suggest we start with a Wiki first. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 8 11:12:34 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 12:12:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. References: Message-ID: <3C63B2A2.938E072F@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > THe ASWAD team has had much success in preparing its documents for a recent > proposal directly in structured text in a cmf wiki prepared by Alastair Burt > (thanks again Alastair). THanks to him, it was possible to extract > automatically the text into a pdf of html file to be exported or mailed. Sounds like a good idea. Can we have one of those for the development of those documents ? (It doesn't really have to be on the europython.org domain; just somewhere where we know how to find it ;-) > Maybe the commitee, made of the active membres so far, MA Lemburg, Tim > Cooper, Martijn, Denis, Andy Robinson and maybe myself too, could use such a > tool to prepare the document we shall need: press release very soon, programs > and other. Agreed. > I would suggest putting a TODO management tool (what has to be done, with > what urgency/priority, who will do it ...) in place too. I don't know such a > zope tool yet, but I am very intrested in getting to know such a product, and > I would suspect it not to be too difficult to develop in zope for someone who > knows zope better than I am. That would be nice, however, we don't have time to wait for someone to write up such a tool. Let's just use a plain text file (or wiki) for this. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From burt@dfki.de Fri Feb 8 11:54:56 2002 From: burt@dfki.de (Alastair Burt) Date: 08 Feb 2002 12:54:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. In-Reply-To: <3C63B2A2.938E072F@lemburg.com> References: <3C63B2A2.938E072F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > >=20 > > THe ASWAD team has had much success in preparing its documents for a re= cent > > proposal directly in structured text in a cmf wiki prepared by Alastair= Burt > > (thanks again Alastair). THanks to him, it was possible to extract > > automatically the text into a pdf of html file to be exported or mailed. The way I did it was not very sophisticated.=20 - The Wiki had a Python call to return an HTML verison of the Wiki page without the comments at the bottom. - I used Zope's templating language to stitch the HTML together into one big file. - For tables etc., I forgot the structured text and just used HTML directly. - I passed the HTML to "html2ps":http://www.tdb.uu.se/~jan/html2psug.html to get a PostScript file. - I passed the PostScript to "ps2pdf":http://stat.tamu.edu/doc/gs/Ps2pdf.htm to get the final PDF. The resulting document looks reasonably clean -- you can use style sheets with html2ps, and TeX hyphenation files. A more politically correct architecture would be to generate XML-FOP code directly from the structured text DOM tree, but I did not have the time to hack that up. > > I would suggest putting a TODO management tool (what has to be done, wi= th > > what urgency/priority, who will do it ...) in place too. I don't know s= uch a > > zope tool yet, but I am very intrested in getting to know such a produc= t, and > > I would suspect it not to be too difficult to develop in zope for someo= ne who > > knows zope better than I am. >=20 > That would be nice, however, we don't have time to wait for someone > to write up such a tool. Let's just use a plain text file (or wiki) > for this. I used a Zope Wiki hack here, too. If you put the WikiName ToDoAlastair in Wiki pages that Alastair has to fill out, then 'ToDoAlastair/backlinks' will give you a clickable list of all those pages. I must say, I quite like structured text and Wikis, but not everyone does. Many of the ASWAD partners just emailed me .doc files of content that I pasted into the Wiki myself. --- Alastair --=20 --- ---- Alastair Burt Project Coordinator ASWAD (http://dfki.de/aswad) German Centre for AI (DFKI), Stuhlsatzenhausweg 3 Saarbr=FCcken 66123, Germany=20=09=09=09=09=09=09 Email: burt@dfki.de Tel: +49 681 302 2565 Fax: +49 681 302 2235 From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 8 14:03:12 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 15:03:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. References: <3C63B2A2.938E072F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C63DAA0.B5D1D12B@lemburg.com> Alastair Burt wrote: > > "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > > > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > > > > > THe ASWAD team has had much success in preparing its documents for a recent > > > proposal directly in structured text in a cmf wiki prepared by Alastair Burt > > > (thanks again Alastair). THanks to him, it was possible to extract > > > automatically the text into a pdf of html file to be exported or mailed. > > The way I did it was not very sophisticated. > > - The Wiki had a Python call to return an HTML verison of the Wiki page > without the comments at the bottom. > > - I used Zope's templating language to stitch the HTML together into one > big file. > > - For tables etc., I forgot the structured text and just used HTML > directly. > > - I passed the HTML to "html2ps":http://www.tdb.uu.se/~jan/html2psug.html > to get a PostScript file. > > - I passed the PostScript to > "ps2pdf":http://stat.tamu.edu/doc/gs/Ps2pdf.htm to get the final PDF. > > The resulting document looks reasonably clean -- you can use style sheets > with html2ps, and TeX hyphenation files. A more politically correct > architecture would be to generate XML-FOP code directly from the structured > text DOM tree, but I did not have the time to hack that up. If it's only about converting HTML to PDF I could help: Acrobat5 has a nice web capture tool which converts HTML into PDF rather nicely, e.g. we could go from the "print" view of wiki directly to PDF. The only problem is that it's manual work, but if we only do this for finished documents, it should be within range :-) > > > I would suggest putting a TODO management tool (what has to be done, with > > > what urgency/priority, who will do it ...) in place too. I don't know such a > > > zope tool yet, but I am very intrested in getting to know such a product, and > > > I would suspect it not to be too difficult to develop in zope for someone who > > > knows zope better than I am. > > > > That would be nice, however, we don't have time to wait for someone > > to write up such a tool. Let's just use a plain text file (or wiki) > > for this. > > I used a Zope Wiki hack here, too. If you put the WikiName ToDoAlastair in > Wiki pages that Alastair has to fill out, then 'ToDoAlastair/backlinks' > will give you a clickable list of all those pages. > > I must say, I quite like structured text and Wikis, but not everyone > does. Many of the ASWAD partners just emailed me .doc files of content that > I pasted into the Wiki myself. I don't have Zope experience, but if europython.org will use Zope then adding the ZWiki shouldn't be much of a problem (in theory ;-). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tim@2wave.net Fri Feb 8 15:15:45 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 15:15:45 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Marc-Andre wrote > I could help organize one of the Python tracks... > which topics > are we talking about ? I'd be interested in a web > services track > (even though there is currently one at IPC10, this > is a hot > subject). The subject certainly would bear a revisit, as I'm sure that European techies are just as confused about SOAP and our US counterparts. I'd suggest an intro which covered XML-RPC and then SOAP (differentiating between its XML-RPC manifestation and its XML wrapping functionality). Paul Prescod has material which I'm sure could be reused here. I spoke with Mike Olson from 4Suite, who said that he was considering coming to the conference anyway. He and Uche did some really good presentations in the Web Services track, covering the whole XML space, including, among other things, RDF. Depending on the experience level of the attendees, we could maybe have an intro to XML, including SAX and DOM for those who only know how to spell them. Again, the 4Suite guys may be good at this. > Another topic I'd be interested in is "Python and > Business" -- > this could be a discussion or a lightning talks > session. The basic > idea is to talk about problems and solution managers > and developers > face in everyday business when dealing with Python > in project > settings, e.g. how to convince a manager to use > Python instead of > FooBar in a project, epxerience with various > business models > built around Python, etc. This is the area I'm very interested in, and would be offer to run this track; whether it is called "Python and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World". One of the weaknesses of open source systems is the almost complete absence of a marketing presence; this is considered a virtue by many :-). However, it is clear that the quality or effectiveness of technology per se does not cause it to be adopted; on the contrary, it is consumer perception, which is why companies employ marketing people! BTW In this context, I think that Jython can also be a key entry point; are we planning to have anything on that topic from a technical perspective? Anyway, the outcome of this track should be participants leaving with "models" and greater understanding of the external world in which developers and vendors reside, and tools and strategies which can be practically employed to further the growth of Python. The lightning talks idea is a good one, ensuring that contributors are clear that their talk needs to add to the body of knowledge about the hows and whys of the adoption (or non-adoption) of Python/Jython within the organisation, or the successful routes to sales of product which have a Python/Jython content, and how they have had to shape their product presentations to suit their customers' perspectives. It would be good to hear Andy Robinson, for instance, on the subject. This of course assumes that the partipants in the conference will be interested in more than just the technology... Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 8 15:16:30 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:16:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release Message-ID: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, I've sent the press release at the end to comp.lang.python.announce, LWN, LinuxToday and NewsForge. I'd like this to go to more places, but it's a start. Perhaps someone would like to help? :) Announce: European Python and Zope Conference 2002 European Python and Zope Conference 2002 (EuroPython 2002) June 26-28, 2002 Charleroi, Belgium http://www.europython.org The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative to bring together European Python and Zope users and developers. This is also an opportunity for those who are interested in these technologies to learn more about them. This will be the first major European event dedicated solely to the Python programming language and its applications. Since Python is seeing a lot of use and much important Python software is developed in Europe, European Python community members felt it was high time to organize a major gathering. We are extremely proud to announce that one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the creator of Python. The event will be held in Charleroi, a city in the south of Belgium not far from Brussels. The authorities in Charleroi have also generously pledged support for this meeting. Special Zope Track and EuroZope members meeting A special conference track about the Python-based web application Zope will also be organized. This track is to be run in parallel with the track on Python. Conference attendees can freely pick and choose between talks on Python and more Zope specific topics. At a previous Zope gathering in 2001 the EuroZope Foundation was created. The EuroZope Foundation is dedicated to the promotion of Zope in Europe as well as the support of European Zope users and developers. EuroPython 2002 is happy to host the first general member's meeting of the EuroZope Foundation. More information More information will be announced soon at http://www.europython.org. More community participation is very welcome! If you feel inspired to help with the organization of this event, we can always use your help. As a first step, please subscribe to the EuroPython mailing list at: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From sf@fermigier.com Fri Feb 8 15:35:38 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:35:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl>; from faassen@vet.uu.nl on Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:16:30PM +0100 References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020208163538.B50868@math.jussieu.fr> On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:16:30PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, >=20 > I've sent the press release at the end to comp.lang.python.announce, > LWN, LinuxToday and NewsForge. I'd like this to go to more places, > but it's a start. Perhaps someone would like to help? :) The press release is OK for comp.lang.python.announce, LWN, LinuxToday an= d NewsForge, but for a more general audience, we should add a paragraph "ab= out Python". It should be made very clear that Python is free software / open source, and it's widely used by successful projects. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 8 15:55:21 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 16:55:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208163538.B50868@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C63F4E9.39E948C1@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 04:16:30PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Hi there, > > > > I've sent the press release at the end to comp.lang.python.announce, > > LWN, LinuxToday and NewsForge. I'd like this to go to more places, > > but it's a start. Perhaps someone would like to help? :) > > The press release is OK for comp.lang.python.announce, LWN, LinuxToday and > NewsForge, but for a more general audience, we should add a paragraph "about > Python". > > It should be made very clear that Python is free software / open source, > and it's widely used by successful projects. Right and for press people to understand this, you should also add the usual press-release-mumbo-jumbo... please have a look at: http://www.python10.org/p10-media3.html Here's a short blurb about Python: """ Python is an object-oriented Open Source programming language which runs on all modern platforms (http://www.python.org/). By integrating ease-of-use, clarity in coding, enterprise application connectivity and rapid application design, Python establishes an ideal programming platform for todays IT challenges. """ -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From someone@arbitrary.org Fri Feb 8 18:49:37 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 10:49:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim Couper wrote: > > Marc-Andre wrote > > I could help organize one of the Python tracks... > > which topics [snip] > > > Another topic I'd be interested in is "Python and > > Business" -- > > this could be a discussion or a lightning talks > > session. The basic > > idea is to talk about problems and solution managers > > and developers > > face in everyday business when dealing with Python > > in project > > settings, e.g. how to convince a manager to use > > Python instead of > > FooBar in a project, epxerience with various > > business models > > built around Python, etc. > > This is the area I'm very interested in, and would be > offer to run this track; whether it is called "Python > and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World". > One of the weaknesses of open source systems is the > almost complete absence of a marketing presence; this > is considered a virtue by many :-). However, it is > clear that the quality or effectiveness of technology > per se does not cause it to be adopted; on the > contrary, it is consumer perception, which is why > companies employ marketing people! [snip] Hello All, I'm new to this list, but I look forward to attending the conference. I'm in the US now, but am moving to Europe in a few months, and look forward to getting into the scene. I find this topic of "Python in Business" or whatever quite interesting, and Tim if you are going to run this track, I'd be happy to help out. Perhaps my experiences bucking the trend and navigating the political intrigues necessary to get the finance company where I work to adopt Python and Zope for it's most critical systems will provide some interesting background for part of the development of such a track. Joseph From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 8 19:38:54 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:38:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C63F4E9.39E948C1@lemburg.com> References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208163538.B50868@math.jussieu.fr> <3C63F4E9.39E948C1@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020208193854.GA16229@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > The press release is OK for comp.lang.python.announce, LWN, LinuxToday and > > NewsForge, but for a more general audience, we should add a paragraph "about > > Python". Yup, this was a press release to people who already know what Python is, but you're right. > > It should be made very clear that Python is free software / open source, > > and it's widely used by successful projects. > > Right and for press people to understand this, you should also > add the usual press-release-mumbo-jumbo... please have a look at: > > http://www.python10.org/p10-media3.html > > Here's a short blurb about Python: > """ > Python is an object-oriented Open Source programming language which > runs on all modern platforms (http://www.python.org/). By integrating > ease-of-use, clarity in coding, enterprise application connectivity > and rapid application design, Python establishes an ideal programming > platform for todays IT challenges. > """ Perhaps you two could get together and work something out? Take the existing press release and add something like this bit and shake it all up, post it back to the list. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 8 19:49:26 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 20:49:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> Tim Couper wrote: > Marc-Andre wrote > > I could help organize one of the Python tracks... > > which topics > > are we talking about ? I'd be interested in a web > > services track > > (even though there is currently one at IPC10, this > > is a hot > > subject). > > The subject certainly would bear a revisit, as I'm > sure that European techies are just as confused about > SOAP and our US counterparts. > > I'd suggest an intro which covered XML-RPC and then > SOAP (differentiating between its XML-RPC > manifestation and its XML wrapping functionality). > Paul Prescod has material which I'm sure could be > reused here. And perhaps even more importantly, the web services stuff that often is built on top of these RPC layers that actually nobody really knows about yet (at least I don't, and I work with the web daily). Anyway, Marc-Andre and Tim Couper are now in the team responsible for figuring out how we'll proceed on web services and the like at EuroPython. > I spoke with Mike Olson from 4Suite, who said that he > was considering coming to the conference anyway. He > and Uche did some really good presentations in the Web > Services track, covering the whole XML space, > including, among other things, RDF. Depending on the > experience level of the attendees, we could maybe have > an intro to XML, including SAX and DOM for those who > only know how to spell them. Again, the 4Suite guys > may be good at this. There's an overlap with the XML stuff here. I'm interested in XML myself, though not directly from a web services point of view (more for document storage/editing/retrieval/searching). We can do something about XML, definitely. Martin von Loewis knows about this conference and may be willing to work on this too, for instance. [snip] > This is the area I'm very interested in, and would be > offer to run this track; whether it is called "Python > and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World". I know Andy Robinson (I think) said he was interested in such a thing as well. > One of the weaknesses of open source systems is the > almost complete absence of a marketing presence; this > is considered a virtue by many :-). However, it is > clear that the quality or effectiveness of technology > per se does not cause it to be adopted; on the > contrary, it is consumer perception, which is why > companies employ marketing people! > > BTW In this context, I think that Jython can also be a > key entry point; are we planning to have anything on > that topic from a technical perspective? Don't we have a bunch of European Jython hackers? Now what's his name.. Right, Finn Bock in Denmark. I've just sent off an email to him asking if he's interested. > Anyway, the outcome of this track should be > participants leaving with "models" and greater > understanding of the external world in which > developers and vendors reside, and tools and > strategies which can be practically employed to > further the growth of Python. The lightning talks idea > is a good one, ensuring that contributors are clear > that their talk needs to add to the body of knowledge > about the hows and whys of the adoption (or > non-adoption) of Python/Jython within the > organisation, or the successful routes to sales of > product which have a Python/Jython content, and how > they have had to shape their product presentations to > suit their customers' perspectives. It would be good > to hear Andy Robinson, for instance, on the subject. > > This of course assumes that the partipants in the > conference will be interested in more than just the > technology... I certainly would be; Infrae (my company) is a small Python/Zope startup. I think this could definitely draw some interest. Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 8 20:04:08 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 21:04:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208163538.B50868@math.jussieu.fr> <3C63F4E9.39E948C1@lemburg.com> <20020208193854.GA16229@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > [...preparing the press release for *press* release ;-)...] > > Perhaps you two could get together and work something out? Take the existing > press release and add something like this bit and shake it all up, post > it back to the list. Ok, but we'll need some more background info about the organizers, e.g. name of a company, address, press-contact, phone numbers, some bios, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 8 20:10:22 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 21:10:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website update Message-ID: <20020208201022.GC16229@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, http://www.europython.org now points to the new still empty website. I'll repeat my call for someone doing the web design; pushing it a leeetle bit beyond its current minimalistic design would be a good idea. :) Tom Deprez is already working on it all. If you want to help, contact either me or him to get a Zope login. Thanks to Ivo van der Wijk and Thomas Reulbach for getting the ball running on the website! Thanks to Ivo we now also have wiki capability on this website; you can add ZWiki objects. I've set up a completely minimal wiki at: http://www.europython.org/wiki Wiki away! Let me know if you need anything. Right now it's completely open to everybody, but perhaps we want to change that later. Regards, Martijn From andy@reportlab.com Fri Feb 8 12:40:55 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 12:40:55 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > - I passed the PostScript to > "ps2pdf":http://stat.tamu.edu/doc/gs/Ps2pdf.htm to get the final PDF. > > The resulting document looks reasonably clean -- you can use style sheets > with html2ps, and TeX hyphenation files. A more politically correct > architecture would be to generate XML-FOP code directly from the > structured > text DOM tree, but I did not have the time to hack that up. Work out the requirements and a mockup of what you would like, and ReportLab will produce tools to go straight from source to PDF in one step in Python. The company boss is on the committee, and it's what we do for a living after all :-) Likewise we would be happy to make web wizards to let people generate/preview their conference badges, programs which canm be rebuilt from source in seconds etc. - Andy Robinson p.s. off line now until late tonight From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 8 20:48:49 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 21:48:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013201329.3c6439b1bc1fd@webmail.in-berlin.de> Andy Robinson : > Work out the requirements and a mockup of what you would like, > and ReportLab will produce tools to go straight from source > to PDF in one step in Python. The company boss is on the committee, > and it's what we do for a living after all :-) > > Likewise we would be happy to make web wizards to let people > generate/preview their conference badges, programs which canm > be rebuilt from source in seconds etc. Yep, I can donnate my business card script right away or even implement the final one with the official EuroPython design (if I knew what that actually is...). If someone has an "official style guide" and/or logos, dump them right on me or point me to them... Regards, Dinu From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 8 21:48:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 22:48:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208163538.B50868@math.jussieu.fr> <3C63F4E9.39E948C1@lemburg.com> <20020208193854.GA16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020208214828.GA16929@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > > [...preparing the press release for *press* release ;-)...] > > > > Perhaps you two could get together and work something out? Take the existing > > press release and add something like this bit and shake it all up, post > > it back to the list. > > Ok, but we'll need some more background info about the organizers, > e.g. name of a company, address, press-contact, phone numbers, > some bios, etc. um, okay..that's just us on the list. :) A press contact would be good, phone numbers we need to discuss. Regards, Martijn From bckfnn@worldonline.dk Fri Feb 8 22:47:31 2002 From: bckfnn@worldonline.dk (Finn Bock) Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 22:47:31 GMT Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics Message-ID: <3c64363e.46035976@mail.wanadoo.dk> [Martijn Faassen] >Don't we have a bunch of European Jython hackers? Now what's his name.. >Right, Finn Bock in Denmark. And Samuele Pedroni with a .ch domain. >I've just sent off an email to him asking if he's interested. I am. Not sure what kind of topics you have been discussing, but if you are looking for a session where I go over a number of the technical issues and decissions that faces jython, then I could do that. regards, finn From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Sat Feb 9 03:53:50 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 04:53:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website update In-Reply-To: <20020208201022.GC16229@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020208201022.GC16229@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020209045350.I31142@carolo.net> Le Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 09:10:22PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > Hi there, Hi all, > http://www.europython.org now points to the new still empty website.=20 > I'll repeat my call for someone doing the web design; pushing it a=20 > leeetle bit beyond its current minimalistic design would be a good idea= . :) >=20 > Tom Deprez is already working on it all. If you want to help, contact > either me or him to get a Zope login. > > Thanks to Ivo van der Wijk and Thomas Reulbach for getting the ball > running on the website!=20 And thanks to you too for the first steps ! As local players, I think our best participation would be to give local information (access, hotels, ...). I've set up a page "where" that we'll try to fill at best. We will translate the press release in French during this weekend, too. Apart from this, I keep getting contacts to welcome you as you deserve. A bient=F4t, --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Sat Feb 9 04:35:45 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 05:35:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020209053545.J31142@carolo.net> - web services track (XML-RPC, SOAP, RDF, ...) - Python and Business (+ administrations ?) - Jython - ... Great ! What do you think about Education in a CP4E point of view ? (I guess some advanced developpers could be uninterested, but ... what's exactly our target ?) Dodo. -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sat Feb 9 06:25:00 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 07:25:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. In-Reply-To: <1013201329.3c6439b1bc1fd@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013201329.3c6439b1bc1fd@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 8 F=E9vrier 2002 21:48, Dinu Gherman a =E9crit : > Andy Robinson : > > Work out the requirements and a mockup of what you would like, > > and ReportLab will produce tools to go straight from source > > to PDF in one step in Python. The company boss is on the committee, > > and it's what we do for a living after all :-) Great idea. Thank you. > > Likewise we would be happy to make web wizards to let people > > generate/preview their conference badges, programs which canm > > be rebuilt from source in seconds etc. > > Yep, I can donnate my business card script right away > or even implement the final one with the official > EuroPython design (if I knew what that actually is...). > If someone has an "official style guide" and/or logos, > dump them right on me or point me to them... Great crontribution. Thank you. I fully support he idea to have the people entering thei coordinate ONCE=20 though the web to register, and use these information afterwards to gener= ate=20 the entrance badges. Is there any of you, Andy, Dinu who would coordinate that point and the=20 set-up of the tool on the europython.org site with the person who will=20 coordinate the whole site ? Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sat Feb 9 08:01:59 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 09:01:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Just to propose a summary so far about the tracks for the Europython/zope= =20 conference: + intro about XML-RPC and then SOAP (differentiating between its XML-RPC manifestation and its XML wrapping functionality). * reuse Paul Prescod's material=20 * discuss web services built on top of these RPC layers=20 * proposed by Tim Couper =20 + have Mike Olson and Uche from 4Suite do a presentation in a Web Services track, covering the whole XML space, including SAX and DOM and = =20 among other things, RDF (proposed by Tim Couper )=20 + Martijn does something about XML for document stora= ge/=20 editing/ retrieval/ searching. Martin von Loewis may be willing to work o= n=20 this too + Tim and Andy Robinson are intrested in running a "Python and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World" track + I am much interested in this too, even if= not=20 able to contribute much else witht than the marketing that a public supp= ort=20 initiative can provide. (I just can say that I work much with my service=20 providers and colleagues in other public administration stating that I wa= nt=20 Python and ZOPE developments) + Have a Jython presentation with European Jython hackers Finn Bock in=20 Denmark who Martijn is contacting + have a presentation in the business track letting deciders (ie. non=20 technicians) know and understand why having their developpements team use= =20 python/jython/zope and contributing to a knowledge body is good for them,= =20 from a business perspective.=20 I suppose I could contribute here, maybe with Didier Georgieff=20 from SIT du Bas Rhin, as we are mo= re=20 on the "consumer" side (deciders and prescriptors) and are convinced alre= ady.=20 (Side note: soon I plan to open a RFP for my administration to gather pe= ople=20 who could in Europe offer python and zope developpment. ) + Joseph Santaniello proposes to helps with "his=20 experiences bucking the trend and navigating the political=20 intrigues necessary to get the finance company where he work to adopt Python and Zope for it's most critical systems will provide some interesting background for part of the development of such a track." Maybe we could get some ideas and people from the IPC10 conference. Best regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Sat Feb 9 08:46:54 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 09:46:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Todo list for euro python and zope conf. References: <1013201329.3c6439b1bc1fd@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C64E1FE.7F49524C@darwin.in-berlin.de> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > I fully support he idea to have the people entering thei coordinate ONCE > though the web to register, and use these information afterwards to generate > the entrance badges. > > Is there any of you, Andy, Dinu who would coordinate that point and the > set-up of the tool on the europython.org site with the person who will > coordinate the whole site ? If I knew better what to expect I could say yes as far as I'm concerned. What I'd like to avoid, though, is messing too much with the site itself, i.e. web-scrip- ting and integrating everything together. But creating some building blocks, yes. Maybe we just need some kind of outline in the Wiki to move on, ok, I'll try to start something there. Dinu From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sat Feb 9 09:08:26 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 10:08:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208193854.GA16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 8 F=E9vrier 2002 21:04, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > > Perhaps you two could get together and work something out? Take the > > existing press release and add something like this bit and shake it a= ll > > up, post it back to the list. > > Ok, but we'll need some more background info about the organizers, > e.g. name of a company, address, press-contact, phone numbers, > some bios, etc. Yes, but are these details really needed now ? Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 9 11:51:03 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 12:51:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <20020208193854.GA16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C642F38.5EFDFCD3@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C650D27.6FF5C17@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > Le Vendredi 8 F=E9vrier 2002 21:04, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : >=20 > > > Perhaps you two could get together and work something out? Take the > > > existing press release and add something like this bit and shake it= all > > > up, post it back to the list. > > > > Ok, but we'll need some more background info about the organizers, > > e.g. name of a company, address, press-contact, phone numbers, > > some bios, etc. >=20 > Yes, but are these details really needed now ? You always have to mention someone being responsible for the press release and at least give them some coordinates in case they want to get back to you (e.g. for extra press material, etc.).=20 A typical press release usually starts with: "PARIS - BigCompany Inc. announces TheGreatBigProduct, a ." Then what follows is a mix of comments, short bios and product descriptions. To put it simple: we need a name tag for who is organizing the event, e.g. EuroPython Conferences c/o xyz, abc 12,=20 3456 Charleroi. --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sat Feb 9 16:42:14 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:42:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C650D27.6FF5C17@lemburg.com> References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <3C650D27.6FF5C17@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Samedi 9 F=E9vrier 2002 12:51, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > You always have to mention someone being responsible for the press > release and at least give them some coordinates in case they want > to get back to you (e.g. for extra press material, etc.). I agree > A typical press release usually starts with: > > "PARIS - BigCompany Inc. announces TheGreatBigProduct, > a ." > > Then what follows is a mix of comments, short bios and product > descriptions. > > To put it simple: we need a name tag for who is organizing > the event, e.g. EuroPython Conferences c/o xyz, abc 12, > 3456 Charleroi. you are right. And this is easy to add. I propose to put one or two names per country, as we do for Eurolinux, wi= th=20 business addresses more than activists ones. My proposal: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D EuroPython/zope Conferences=20 c/o OS3B, [OS3B address] Charleroi. Belgium Denis Fr=E8re, email: denis@aragne.com, tel: +32. Nicolas Pettiaux, email: npettiaux@cocof.be, tel: +32.(0)496.24.55.01 France St=E9fance Fermigier, email: sf@nuxeo.com, tel: +33. Germany Marc-Andr=E9 Lemburg, email: mal@lemburg.com, tel: +49. Netherlands Martijn Faassen, email: faassen@vet.uu.nl, tel: +31. UK ?? Best regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 9 17:02:50 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 18:02:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <3C650D27.6FF5C17@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020209170250.GA19332@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > I propose to put one or two names per country, as we do for Eurolinux, with > business addresses more than activists ones. [snip proposal] Sounds like a good idea. I'll look up my work phone number (I keep forgetting, but best place to reach me) and mail you all soon. :) Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 9 20:03:34 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:03:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020208151630.GB14597@vet.uu.nl> <3C650D27.6FF5C17@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C658096.A85376BB@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > I propose to put one or two names per country, as we do for Eurolinux, = with > business addresses more than activists ones. >=20 > My proposal: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > EuroPython/Zope Conferences > c/o OS3B, [OS3B address] Charleroi. >=20 > Belgium > Denis Fr=E8re, email: denis@aragne.com, tel: +32. > Nicolas Pettiaux, email: npettiaux@cocof.be, tel: +32.(0)496.24.55.01 >=20 > France > St=E9fance Fermigier, email: sf@nuxeo.com, tel: +33. >=20 > Germany > Marc-Andr=E9 Lemburg, email: mal@lemburg.com, tel: +49. 211.9304112 >=20 > Netherlands > Martijn Faassen, email: faassen@vet.uu.nl, tel: +31. >=20 > UK Tim Couper Andy Robinson --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 08:49:42 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 09:49:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press relaese in wiki Message-ID: Dear, In http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease/ I have put together the adapted press release.=20 Please go and adapt it=20 Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 13:45:33 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:45:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceInformationRelease and RequestForPapers Message-ID: Dear I have just added=20 http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceInformationRelease and http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/RequestForPapers Please check, comment, adapt, correct and disuss these proposals. Best regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 10 13:46:02 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 14:46:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press relaese in wiki References: Message-ID: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > In http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease/ >=20 > I have put together the adapted press release. >=20 > Please go and adapt it I've applied some edits. Please have a look... is the following correct ? """ The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative by EuroPython=20 Conference Team to bring together European Python and Zope users and=20 developers. """ and later: """ EuroPython/Zope Conference Team P3B c/o Aragne Boulevard G=E9n=E9ral Michel 1E B-6000 Charleroi. """ --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 10 14:05:26 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:05:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > Just to propose a summary so far about the tracks for the Europython/zope > conference: Could we have this as Wiki page too ? (I have applied some minor corrections below) > + intro about XML-RPC and then SOAP (differentiating between its RPC > manifestation and its XML wrapping functionality). > * possibly reuse Paul Prescod's material > * discuss web services built on top of these RPC layers > * proposed by Tim Couper and Marc-Andre Lemburg > > + have Mike Olson and Uche from FourThough Inc. do a presentation in a Web > Services track, covering the whole XML space, including SAX and DOM and > among other things, RDF > * proposed by Tim Couper > > + Martijn does something about XML for document storage/ > editing/ retrieval/ searching. Martin von Loewis may be willing to work on > this too > > + Tim, Marc-Andre and Andy Robinson are intrested in running a "Python > and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World" track > > + I am much interested in this too, even if not > able to contribute much else witht than the marketing that a public support > initiative can provide. (I just can say that I work much with my service > providers and colleagues in other public administration stating that I want > Python and ZOPE developments) > > + Have a Jython presentation with European Jython hackers Finn Bock in > Denmark who Martijn is contacting > > + have a presentation in the business track letting deciders (ie. non > technicians) know and understand why having their developpements team use > python/jython/zope and contributing to a knowledge body is good for them, > from a business perspective. > > I suppose I could contribute here, maybe with Didier Georgieff > from SIT du Bas Rhin, as we are more > on the "consumer" side (deciders and prescriptors) and are convinced already. > > (Side note: soon I plan to open a RFP for my administration to gather people > who could in Europe offer python and zope developpment. ) > > + Joseph Santaniello proposes to helps with "his > experiences bucking the trend and navigating the political > intrigues necessary to get the finance company where he work to adopt > Python and Zope for it's most critical systems will provide some > interesting background for part of the development of such a track." In summary we now have the following tracks: 1. Python and Jython 2. Zope 3. Web Services 4. Python in the Real World Now we have three days available. Question is how to organize these three days. We could follow IPCn: 26.06.: Tutorial Day 27.06.: Conference Day 28.06.: Developers Day or maybe just have two conference days (I tend to have a feeling that dev days don't really generate much significant output). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 14:09:02 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:09:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press relaese in wiki In-Reply-To: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> References: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Dimanche 10 F=E9vrier 2002 14:46, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > In http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease/ > > > > I have put together the adapted press release. > > > > Please go and adapt it > > I've applied some edits.=20 Thank you > Please have a look... is the following correct ? > """ > The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative by EuroPython > Conference Team to bring together European Python and Zope users and > developers. > """ I suppose so > and later: > > """ > EuroPython/Zope Conference Team > P3B c/o Aragne > Boulevard G=E9n=E9ral Michel 1E > B-6000 Charleroi. > """ Denis has to tell us. Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 10 14:14:28 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:14:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C668044.366281BA@lemburg.com> Just realized Nicolas has already set up a Wiki page... http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks/ I'm currently editing this page up a bit. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Sun Feb 10 14:14:56 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:14:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> References: <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Dimanche 10 F=E9vrier 2002 15:05, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > Just to propose a summary so far about the tracks for the Europython/= zope > > conference: > > Could we have this as Wiki page too ? this is already in=20 http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks All your ideas below seem good to me. Please go on and edit this wiki page as you like.=20 (I won't for the next 3 hours at least) > (I have applied some minor corrections below) > > > + intro about XML-RPC and then SOAP (differentiating between its RPC > > manifestation and its XML wrapping functionality). > > * possibly reuse Paul Prescod's material > > * discuss web services built on top of these RPC layers > > * proposed by Tim Couper and Marc-Andre Lemburg > > > > > > + have Mike Olson and Uche from FourThough Inc. do a presentation in = a > > Web Services track, covering the whole XML space, including SAX and D= OM > > and among other things, RDF > > * proposed by Tim Couper > > > > + Martijn does something about XML for document > > storage/ editing/ retrieval/ searching. Martin von Loewis may be will= ing > > to work on this too > > > > + Tim, Marc-Andre and Andy Robinson are intrested in running a "Pytho= n > > and Business" or more like "Python in the Real World" track > > > > + I am much interested in this too, eve= n if > > not able to contribute much else witht than the marketing that a publ= ic > > support initiative can provide. (I just can say that I work much with= my > > service providers and colleagues in other public administration stati= ng > > that I want Python and ZOPE developments) > > > > + Have a Jython presentation with European Jython hackers Finn Bock i= n > > Denmark who Martijn is contacting > > > > + have a presentation in the business track letting deciders (ie. non > > technicians) know and understand why having their developpements team= use > > python/jython/zope and contributing to a knowledge body is good for t= hem, > > from a business perspective. > > > > I suppose I could contribute here, maybe with Didier Georgieff > > from SIT du Bas Rhin, as we ar= e > > more on the "consumer" side (deciders and prescriptors) and are convi= nced > > already. > > > > (Side note: soon I plan to open a RFP for my administration to gathe= r > > people who could in Europe offer python and zope developpment. ) > > > > + Joseph Santaniello proposes to helps with "= his > > experiences bucking the trend and navigating the political > > intrigues necessary to get the finance company where he work to adopt > > Python and Zope for it's most critical systems will provide some > > interesting background for part of the development of such a track." > > In summary we now have the following tracks: > > 1. Python and Jython > 2. Zope > 3. Web Services > 4. Python in the Real World > > Now we have three days available. Question is how to organize these > three days. We could follow IPCn: > > 26.06.: Tutorial Day > 27.06.: Conference Day > 28.06.: Developers Day > > or maybe just have two conference days (I tend to have a feeling > that dev days don't really generate much significant output). --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 14:18:23 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:18:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Suggestion: use UserOptions Message-ID: In order to track who did what, I suggest the contributors to the wiki go= to =20 http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/UserOptions and enter their user name. I did with npettiau Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 10 14:25:40 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:25:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C6682E4.2B21D7BA@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > Le Dimanche 10 F=E9vrier 2002 15:05, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > > Just to propose a summary so far about the tracks for the Europytho= n/zope > > > conference: > > > > Could we have this as Wiki page too ? >=20 > this is already in >=20 > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks >=20 > All your ideas below seem good to me. >=20 > Please go on and edit this wiki page as you like. >=20 > (I won't for the next 3 hours at least) I've completed the editing (and now, after the edits :-/, have also set the user cookie). Please review and change as you see fit. --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 10 14:35:58 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 15:35:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceInformationRelease and RequestForPapers References: Message-ID: <3C66854E.DE728F6B@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > Dear > > I have just added > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceInformationRelease Good start :-) I would put a little more emphasis on high level introductions, though (the topics look too technical). We should try to attract not only developers but also people seeking guidance about whether or not to use Python in future projects. The "Python in the Real World" track should explicitly focus on decision makers for this reason. > and > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/RequestForPapers Looks perfect for conference presentations, but it is missing some important parts for a "call for papers" -- the paper submission guidelines ;-) Now, papers are generally tough to manage since you need referees, several rounds etc. Perhaps we don't want refereed papers at the first conference ?! In that case, I'd call the page "Request for Participation" (like the O'Reilly page is called). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Sun Feb 10 15:25:02 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 16:25:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release in wiki In-Reply-To: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> References: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020210162502.P31142@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 02:46:02PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg pianota: >=20 > I've applied some edits. Please have a look... is the following > correct ? >=20 > """ > The European Python and Zope Conference is an initiative by EuroPython=20 > Conference Team to bring together European Python and Zope users and=20 > developers. > """ >=20 > and later: >=20 > """ > EuroPython/Zope Conference Team > P3B c/o Aragne > Boulevard G=E9n=E9ral Michel 1E > B-6000 Charleroi. > """ More accurate :-) As I told during our december meeting, if we need a official name under which the evenement must be placed, we can use P3B (Python Blanc Bleu Belge). It's a belgian non-profit organisation devoted solely to the glory of Python and derivated products. But, of course, if we add "EuroPython/Zope Conference Team" in front of P3B, it will reflect reality better. Good so for me. Aragne is our commercial company (and main sponsor of P3B). I think it's better if it's just a company as others and not the main organizer. For your full information, OS3B is also a non-profit organisation : a Charleroi Linux Users Group we will get help from, Python and Zope being free-software. (And I quite agree with S. Fermigier : we have to be explicit about this. That's the reason why Charleroi's Authorities accept to support the event, not because of technical excellency.) Back in a few hours ... Denis --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Sun Feb 10 16:16:05 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:16:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceInformationRelease and RequestForPapers In-Reply-To: <3C66854E.DE728F6B@lemburg.com> References: <3C66854E.DE728F6B@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Dimanche 10 F=E9vrier 2002 15:35, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > Dear > > > > I have just added > > > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceInformationRelease > > Good start :-) I would put a little more emphasis on high level > introductions, though (the topics look too technical). We should > try to attract not only developers but also people seeking > guidance about whether or not to use Python in future projects. yes > The "Python in the Real World" track should explicitly focus > on decision makers for this reason. Yes , I fully agree.=20 As I am rather not anymore a technician (or let's say the technices is no= t=20 anymore my main objective), this is the track (with a similar one for zop= e)=20 that I am ready to help to manage.=20 > > and > > > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/RequestForPapers > > Looks perfect for conference presentations, but it is missing some > important parts for a "call for papers" -- the paper submission > guidelines ;-) right. Didn't have the time to put that in. > Now, papers are generally tough to manage since you need referees, > several rounds etc. Perhaps we don't want refereed papers at the > first conference ?! In that case, I'd call the page "Request for > Participation" (like the O'Reilly page is called). good idea. Thanks,=20 Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 16:19:17 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:19:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release in wiki In-Reply-To: <20020210162502.P31142@carolo.net> References: <3C66799A.2C228E2B@lemburg.com> <20020210162502.P31142@carolo.net> Message-ID: Le Dimanche 10 F=E9vrier 2002 16:25, Denis a =E9crit : > > EuroPython/Zope Conference Team > > P3B c/o Aragne > > Boulevard G=E9n=E9ral Michel 1E > > B-6000 Charleroi. > > """ > > More accurate :-) > > As I told during our december meeting, if we need a official name under > which the evenement must be placed, we can use P3B (Python Blanc Bleu > Belge). It's a belgian non-profit organisation devoted solely to the > glory of Python and derivated products. > > But, of course, if we add "EuroPython/Zope Conference Team" in front of > P3B, it will reflect reality better. Good so for me. OK=20 > Aragne is our commercial company (and main sponsor of P3B). I think it'= s > better if it's just a company as others and not the main organizer. I propose then to remove the reference to Aragne there. > For your full information, OS3B is also a non-profit organisation : a > Charleroi Linux Users Group we will get help from, Python and Zope bein= g > free-software. (And I quite agree with S. Fermigier : we have to be > explicit about this. That's the reason why Charleroi's Authorities > accept to support the event, not because of technical excellency.) Yes, this has to be said clearly . Who is changing the PR ? Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Sun Feb 10 21:55:27 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:55:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] reponsability for http://www.europython.org/ Message-ID: Dear, As far as I feel, we need to put a site under http://www.europython.org/ = that=20 is a bit better and more complete as soon as possible.=20 There is some material in the wiki=20 http://www.europython.org/wiki=20 can be reworked and put forward. This has to be coordinated with http://europython.p3b.org/ If this is done, we can with success mention it in the press release and=20 gather soe other feedback. Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Mon Feb 11 08:42:26 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:42:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> > > In summary we now have the following tracks: > > 1. Python and Jython > 2. Zope > 3. Web Services > 4. Python in the Real World > Again, you're all focusing on web/internet... But it's funny you wrote point 4 was the real world, i.e. everything else but web :) Java, Zope, web... all these are, of course, very important for some bussiness today. I should say, I has been ? Most of the people I know are using Python in the scientific world. I always present Python as a gluing and/or prototyping langage, and you can see with Numerical Python or other scientific modules, there is a not-internet-related Python community. As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent with web-things, mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI announce. I propose some scientific related Python use, but I must admit this will imply I'll have to fill the topic with some presentations... David Ascher ? Konrad Hinsen ? Paul Dubois ? could brightly open such a topic. Then we can have about 5/10 papers of scientific users in Europe (At least German (DLR) and French aerospace industry ;) I also propose something related with internationalisation, experts are very close to us and it's worth being mentioned that Python is ready for that. Then the last topic I would suggest is DBMS-related topics. You think web is the most important because every company has a web... but there often are more than one database in every company. And there probably is one DBMS behind every web. As far as I remember, C. Tismer has worked on DBMS for one of its customer ? Maybe he could be the topic benevolvs-dictarvr ? See Python home site topics, these main topics already are there. > 1. Python and Jython > 2. Zope > 3. Web Services 4. Python for scientific World (and Galactic if possible) 5. Databases on earth and Python Marcvs [alias This email was not generated using a Python module] From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Feb 11 08:54:47 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:54:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring Message-ID: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Hi, maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? Thanks, Dinu From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Feb 11 09:04:17 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:04:17 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> Message-ID: <1013418257.3c678911554c9@webmail.in-berlin.de> Marc Poinot : > Most of the people I know are using Python in the scientific world. Deformation professionelle... ;-) > I always present Python as a gluing and/or prototyping langage, and > you can see with Numerical Python or other scientific modules, there > is a not-internet-related Python community. > As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent with web-things, > mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... > This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI announce. I fully agree and would also appreciate some "more serious" content, that is less likely to be de-hyped within a year into meaninglessness... I'll ask some folks at the Institut Pasteur right away if they can share some of their Python experience. Also, please think of Michel Sanner who was also present in Long Beach, CA... Marc, would you mind contacting him? Regards, Dinu From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Mon Feb 11 09:16:47 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:16:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020208151545.95608.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <20020208194926.GB16229@vet.uu.nl> <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> <1013418257.3c678911554c9@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C678BFF.1B35F1B1@onera.fr> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Marc Poinot : > > > Most of the people I know are using Python in the scientific world. > > Deformation professionelle... ;-) > > > I always present Python as a gluing and/or prototyping langage, and > > you can see with Numerical Python or other scientific modules, there > > is a not-internet-related Python community. > > As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent with web-things, > > mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... > > This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI announce. > > I fully agree and would also appreciate some "more serious" > content, that is less likely to be de-hyped within a year into > meaninglessness... I'll ask some folks at the Institut Pasteur > right away if they can share some of their Python experience. > > Also, please think of Michel Sanner who was also present in > Long Beach, CA... Marc, would you mind contacting him? > > Regards, > > Dinu > I don't know Michel Sanner. I've seen he's using a molecular package, just what Konrad was developping at first. But I can contact him if I know what's going on for invited speakers. I certainly cannot say to a speaker "come" if I don't know what are the arrangments with organization. Is there some money to make people come ? Who's defining priorities ? Who's holding the pen to say yes/no ? Marcvs [alias Hum... well, a pen cannot speak, I'm wrong, I would have writen "who's holding the penguin..."] From tim@2wave.net Mon Feb 11 09:22:50 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:22:50 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Nicholas Put me down for the UK: Tim Couper. email tim@2wave.net. I think it's a great idea to have the separate country coverage info. However, I think that Marc's point is that it's usual to have *one* point of contact for press details, so it would be good to have a volunteer (if there already hasn't been one!) ... Tim > > Message: 3 > From: Nicolas Pettiaux > Reply-To: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org > To: "M.-A. Lemburg" > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] send out press release > Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:42:14 +0100 > Cc: Martijn Faassen , > sf@fermigier.com, > europython@python.org > > Le Samedi 9 F=E9vrier 2002 12:51, M.-A. Lemburg a > =E9crit : > > > You always have to mention someone being > responsible for the press > > release and at least give them some coordinates in > case they want > > to get back to you (e.g. for extra press material, > etc.). > > I agree > > > A typical press release usually starts with: > > > > "PARIS - BigCompany Inc. announces > TheGreatBigProduct, > > a ." > > > > Then what follows is a mix of comments, short bios > and product > > descriptions. > > > > To put it simple: we need a name tag for who is > organizing > > the event, e.g. EuroPython Conferences c/o xyz, > abc 12, > > 3456 Charleroi. > > you are right. And this is easy to add. > > I propose to put one or two names per country, as we > do for Eurolinux, wi= > th=20 > business addresses more than activists ones. > > My proposal: > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > > EuroPython/zope Conferences=20 > c/o OS3B, [OS3B address] Charleroi. > > Belgium > Denis Fr=E8re, email: denis@aragne.com, tel: +32. > Nicolas Pettiaux, email: npettiaux@cocof.be, tel: > +32.(0)496.24.55.01 > > France > St=E9fance Fermigier, email: sf@nuxeo.com, tel: > +33. > > Germany > Marc-Andr=E9 Lemburg, email: mal@lemburg.com, tel: > +49. > > Netherlands > Martijn Faassen, email: faassen@vet.uu.nl, tel: > +31. > > UK > ?? > > Best regards, > > Nicolas > > > --=20 > Nicolas Pettiaux > Avenue du P=E9rou 29 > B-1000 Brussels > > > > --__--__-- > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > End of EuroPython Digest __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From tim@2wave.net Mon Feb 11 09:54:05 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 09:54:05 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> Message-ID: <20020211095405.12555.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Hi M Poinot :-) [too many Marcs :-)] The question is what do we think are hot topics that would make people want to come? I'm not sure that databases per se are that hot - people are probably either using Oracle or free stuff in the relational domain - and they are largely understood, and covered quite extensively in the Python books available. I'm unsure about the interest in "the database what I wrote" talks, but they might possibly fit in well into the Python in the Real World - as an example of the power and flexibility of python, which made it possible to produce an object database or whatever, which was suited to the application space under consideration. The scientific application of python is, I suppose, "Python in the Scientific World" as opposed to "Python in the Commercial World", which is where the "Python in the Real World" topic started. However, the issues relating to Scientific python are, I think, fundamentally techy, and whether the array handling etc is more efficient or effective than doing it in Fortran or C; are any such scientists going to come who aren't already python-aware? I suspect not. However, I think there is great value in having papers covering examples of scientific applications of python, which could be presented if there's enough interest, or handled as a BoF. These papers are valuable, in my view, as they can form the basis of presentations in conferences specifically focussed on the science concerned, and it is maybe these papers that act as the evangelistic vehicle for python within the scientific community. So I think I'm arguing that Python in the Real world could include some of the science presentations? Just my thoughts ... Tim --- Marc Poinot wrote: > > > > > In summary we now have the following tracks: > > > > 1. Python and Jython > > 2. Zope > > 3. Web Services > > 4. Python in the Real World > > > > Again, you're all focusing on web/internet... But > it's funny you > wrote point 4 was the real world, i.e. everything > else but web :) > Java, Zope, web... all these are, of course, very > important for some > bussiness today. I should say, I has been ? > Most of the people I know are using Python in the > scientific world. > I always present Python as a gluing and/or > prototyping langage, and > you can see with Numerical Python or other > scientific modules, there > is a not-internet-related Python community. > As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent > with web-things, > mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... > This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI > announce. > > I propose some scientific related Python use, but I > must admit this will > imply I'll have to fill the topic with some > presentations... > > David Ascher ? Konrad Hinsen ? Paul Dubois ? could > brightly open > such a topic. Then we can have about 5/10 papers of > scientific > users in Europe (At least German (DLR) and French > aerospace industry ;) > > I also propose something related with > internationalisation, experts are > very close to us and it's worth being mentioned that > Python is ready for > that. > > Then the last topic I would suggest is DBMS-related > topics. You think web > is the most important because every company has a > web... but there often > are more than one database in every company. And > there probably is one > DBMS behind every web. As far as I remember, C. > Tismer has worked on DBMS > for one of its customer ? Maybe he could be the > topic benevolvs-dictarvr ? > > See Python home site topics, these main topics > already are there. > > > 1. Python and Jython > > 2. Zope > > 3. Web Services > 4. Python for scientific World (and Galactic if > possible) > 5. Databases on earth and Python > > Marcvs [alias This email was not generated using a > Python module] __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 10:33:00 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 11:33:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de>; from gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:54:47AM +0100 References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:54:47AM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > Hi, >=20 > maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember > having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. > Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? As said during the december meeting that my company, Nuxeo, could probabl= y give 500 Euros, but it's too early to make a firm commitment. Cheers. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Feb 11 11:16:45 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 12:16:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi EuroPythoneers, I am glad to announce that we (Logilab) plan on helping as much as we can with the EuroPythonZopeConference. I assume you know us already (at least we know most of you :-), but in case you wouldn't, check out http://www.logilab.org/ > EuroPython/zope Conferences > c/o OS3B, [OS3B address] Charleroi. > > France > Stéfance Fermigier, email: sf@nuxeo.com, tel: +33. Feel free to add me : Nicolas Chauvat, email: nicolas.chauvat@logilab.fr, +33 (0)1 45 32 03 12 -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.fr - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 11 12:42:54 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:42:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press-Release French Message-ID: <20020211134254.A26073@carolo.net> I've added a French version of the PR. Comments and improvements welcome. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Mon Feb 11 12:53:12 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:53:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press-Release French References: <20020211134254.A26073@carolo.net> Message-ID: <3C67BEB8.BDCCDAFE@onera.fr> Denis wrote: >=20 > I've added a French version of the PR. > Comments and improvements welcome. >=20 - Il s'agira du premier =E9v=E9nement de grande envergure enti=E8rement + Il s'agira du premier =E9v=E9nement Europeen de grande envergure enti=E8= rement - Une session sp=E9ciale sera d=E9dicac=E9e =E0 Zope + Une session sp=E9ciale sera d=E9di=E9e =E0 Zope Pour ma part, je passerai tout au present. Le futur est lourd et trop inc= ertain :) (I think we would better use present instead of futur) Marcvs [alias IPC already is "grande envergure"] From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 13:36:57 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 14:36:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press-Release French In-Reply-To: <3C67BEB8.BDCCDAFE@onera.fr>; from Marc.Poinot@onera.fr on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 01:53:12PM +0100 References: <20020211134254.A26073@carolo.net> <3C67BEB8.BDCCDAFE@onera.fr> Message-ID: <20020211143657.N49147@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 01:53:12PM +0100, Marc Poinot wrote: > Denis wrote: > >=20 > > I've added a French version of the PR. > > Comments and improvements welcome. > >=20 > - Il s'agira du premier =E9v=E9nement de grande envergure enti=E8rement > + Il s'agira du premier =E9v=E9nement Europeen de grande envergure enti= =E8rement >=20 > - Une session sp=E9ciale sera d=E9dicac=E9e =E0 Zope > + Une session sp=E9ciale sera d=E9di=E9e =E0 Zope >=20 > Pour ma part, je passerai tout au present. Le futur est lourd et trop i= ncertain :) > (I think we would better use present instead of futur) Je reste sur mon commentaire initial: si on se met =E0 la place du journa= liste, qui a priori n'a jamais entendu parler de Python (sauf s'il =E9crit pour Programmez!, Developpeur Reference, Login: ou Gnu/Linux&Hurd Magazine Fra= nce), on ne comprend rien et on passe au communiqu=E9 suivant. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Feb 11 14:23:43 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:23:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, please? Thanks, Dinu From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 14:38:09 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:38:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de>; from gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100 References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German,=20 > please? Like I said earlier in french, the PR in its current form would not work = with an uninformed journalist, who typically wouldn't know what Python / Zope = are. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Feb 11 14:52:15 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:52:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, > > please? > > Like I said earlier in french, the PR in its current form would not work with > an uninformed journalist, who typically wouldn't know what Python / Zope are. I updated the english PR in an effort to make it more journalist friendly. You folks let me know what you think of my changes or just revert them. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 15:32:58 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:32:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C67E42A.1D53DEF0@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Hi, > > maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember > having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. > Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? Good point ! AFAIK, the city of Charleroi is donating the venue for the conference. That's about it, I guess. We'll need to budget this event in order to be able to tell how much sponsoring we need. Ideal would be to get some EU funds for the event, but I don't know whether we have any EU contacts... ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 15:39:56 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:39:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C67E5CC.BC9ABC5F@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, > please? Let's put a deadline on it: next Friday. Then we should take whatever is there and post it to the relevant press entities. Would be nice to have some more translations... French, Spanish, Italian, Russian (my girl friend can help with that one), Polish, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 11 15:42:18 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:42:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PR-French Version Message-ID: <20020211164218.A26616@carolo.net> I rewrote some parts of the French PR in a less litteral translation. (J'ai laiss=E9 quelques verbes au futur, mais j'ai tenu compte de tes remarques, St=E9phane) Merci aux relecteurs. Denis --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 15:47:55 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:47:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: ; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:52:15PM +0100 References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:52:15PM +0100, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002, Stefane Fermigier wrote: >=20 > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > > > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German,=20 > > > please? > >=20 > > Like I said earlier in french, the PR in its current form would not w= ork with > > an uninformed journalist, who typically wouldn't know what Python / Z= ope are. >=20 > I updated the english PR in an effort to make it more journalist > friendly. You folks let me know what you think of my changes or just > revert them. I would suggest rewriting the title like: European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi, Be= lgium, June 26-28 And the header like: Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 For immediate release =20 The EuroPython Conference Team announces that the European Python and Zo= pe Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, Belgium. Th= is conference is an unique opportunity to bring together developers and use= rs of Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scripting langua= ge, and Zope, the leading open source / free software application server and content management platform. [Add more important information here] S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 15:52:31 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:52:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, > > please? > > Like I said earlier in french, the PR in its current form would not work with > an uninformed journalist, who typically wouldn't know what Python / Zope are. There already is a short blurb about Python in the press release wiki. Someone should add a similar blurb for Zope. Could someone please also start unifying the different web-sites which are running information on EuroPython ?! We have a Wiki at http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/FrontPage, a French only announcement on http://www.europython.org/ and a different one on the P3B site. Please also note that the Wiki should be considered the official source of documents. Any changes or new documents should go there. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Mon Feb 11 15:55:16 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:55:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C67E964.A558C61@onera.fr> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > The EuroPython Conference Team announces that the European Python and Zope > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, Belgium. This > conference is an unique opportunity to bring together developers and users of > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scripting language, > and Zope, the leading open source / free software application server and > content management platform. [Add more important information here] The terms "fastest growing"... do we have quanties wich lead us to such a conclusion ? Marcvs [alias With *Numerical Python* you would not have asked !] From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 15:56:55 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:56:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:52:31PM +0100 References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211165655.F74692@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:52:31PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 03:23:43PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > > > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, > > > please? > >=20 > > Like I said earlier in french, the PR in its current form would not w= ork with > > an uninformed journalist, who typically wouldn't know what Python / Z= ope are. >=20 > There already is a short blurb about Python in the press release > wiki. Someone should add a similar blurb for Zope. Zope is the leading open source application server, specializing in conte= nt management, portals, and custom applications. Since Zope Corporation intr= oduced Zope as an open source product in 1998, it has become the platform of cho= ice for content publishers, managers and application developers. Zope comes w= ith complete source code, and no software licensing fees. There are over 20,0= 00 developers around the world contributing to Zope, providing on-going supp= ort and enhancements. More information, including the Zope source code, is available at http://www.zope.com. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ (Shouldn't this be http://www.zope.org/ ???) And in french: Zope est le leader des serveurs d'application open source, sp=E9cialis= =E9 dans la gestion de contenu, les portails et les applications personnalis=E9es. Depuis que Zope Corporation a introduit Zope comme u= n produit open source en 1998, ce dernier est devenu une plate-forme de choix pour les producteurs de contenus, les gestionnaires et les d=E9veloppeurs. Zope est livr=E9 avec l'int=E9gralit=E9 de son code so= urce, et ne supporte pas le co=FBt d'une licence logicielle. On compte plus de = 20000=20 d=E9veloppeurs dans le monde qui contribuent =E0 Zope, fournissant un soutien actif et des am=E9liorations. Plus d'informations, incluant le code source de Zope, sont disponibles sur le site www.zope.com. (Same remark here) S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 15:58:35 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:58:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E964.A558C61@onera.fr>; from Marc.Poinot@onera.fr on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:55:16PM +0100 References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67E964.A558C61@onera.fr> Message-ID: <20020211165835.G74692@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:55:16PM +0100, Marc Poinot wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > The EuroPython Conference Team announces that the European Py= thon and Zope > > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, B= elgium. This > > conference is an unique opportunity to bring together develop= ers and users of > > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scrip= ting language, > > and Zope, the leading open source / free software application= server and > > content management platform. [Add more important information= here] >=20 > The terms "fastest growing"... do we have quanties wich lead us to > such a conclusion ? This assertion can be supported by counting the number of Python books 1 = year ago, and now. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Feb 11 15:59:04 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 16:59:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E964.A558C61@onera.fr> Message-ID: > The terms "fastest growing"... do we have quanties wich lead us to > such a conclusion ? That's usual PR talk ;-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 16:06:50 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:06:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > I would suggest rewriting the title like: > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi, Belgium, > June 26-28 Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... > And the header like: > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython Conference Team is "officially" located. > For immediate release > > The EuroPython Conference Team announces that the European Python and Zope > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, Belgium. This > conference is an unique opportunity to bring together developers and users of The press release has the order right: "users and developers" :-) > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scripting language, > and Zope, the leading open source / free software application server and > content management platform. [Add more important information here] Let's just leave it at "open source". I wouldn't want us to get into discussions about what definition of "free" we mean here and, most of all, avoid any confusion this whole discussion might cause. Again, the press release is right here. Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; that's a road with a dead end in business talks. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Mon Feb 11 16:15:01 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:15:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 05:06:50PM +0100 References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211171500.A76572@math.jussieu.fr> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 05:06:50PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > I would suggest rewriting the title like: > >=20 > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi= , Belgium, > > June 26-28 >=20 > Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an > emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original > intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... "European Python and Zope Conference" was something I took from the current PR. But I think that the original intent, back in december in Charleroi, was to call it that way, since this would bring more people to it. > > And the header like: > >=20 > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 >=20 > We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython=20 > Conference Team is "officially" located. That's an option. But giving a lot of places is a way to say this is trul= ly a european event. > > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, B= elgium. This > > conference is an unique opportunity to bring together develop= ers and users of >=20 > The press release has the order right: "users and developers" :-) OK. > > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scrip= ting language, > > and Zope, the leading open source / free software application= server and > > content management platform. [Add more important information= here] >=20 > Let's just leave it at "open source". I wouldn't want us to get=20 > into discussions about what definition of "free" we mean here and, > most of all, avoid any confusion this whole discussion might > cause. Again, the press release is right here. I'm sure a lot of people (RMS) would disagree. > Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of=20 > Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; > that's a road with a dead end in business talks. Right. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 16:16:31 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:16:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C67EE5F.429435F8@lemburg.com> I've edited the press release a bit: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease Nicolas, could please also add wiki pages for the other languages ?! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From srichter@cbu.edu Mon Feb 11 16:19:13 2002 From: srichter@cbu.edu (Stephan Richter) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 10:19:13 -0600 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020211101746.02d7c9c8@mercury-1.cbu.edu> At 05:06 PM 2/11/2002 +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an >emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original >intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... We agreed early on that Python and Zope would be presented equally, not just by having a Zope track. The EuroZope community wants to use this conference as its official member meeting of the "EuroZope e.V." Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Feb 11 16:21:57 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:21:57 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of > Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; > that's a road with a dead end in business talks. I added it in order to give an idea to the most clueless reader what Python and Zope might be about. That kind of reader would probably have heard of Java and J2EE and would therefore get something to hook up to. It's often hard to explain something to someone without ever mentionning well known "references". If you think it's not a good idea, that's fine with me, just remove it. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 11 16:25:09 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:25:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211172509.B26616@carolo.net> Le Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 04:52:31PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg pianota: > > We have a Wiki at http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/FrontPage, a > French only announcement on http://www.europython.org/ and a different > one on the P3B site. Sorry for the europython.org/index_html : shame on me and long life to Zope Undo possibilities ... :-) EuroPython pages on the P3B site were just a first draft waiting for the actual EuroPython.org to be ready. I will update a few French pages on P3B.org according to the new info on EuroPython.org if needed (i.e. if europython has no localized version) and more probably with news dedicated to a "very local" target. For the rest, I will just let the announcement and a link to the official pages. So, don't take p3b.org into account. > Please also note that the Wiki should be considered the official > source of documents. Any changes or new documents should go there. And I put the French PR in the Wiki. Am I forgiven ? Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Mon Feb 11 16:33:45 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:33:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67EE5F.429435F8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > I've edited the press release a bit: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease > > Nicolas, could please also add wiki pages for the other > languages ?! I am not sure I were the Nicolas you were talking to, but I did it anyway... see http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease I was about to remove the english text from that page since it is in http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleaseEnglish but I thought you guys might want to use the english version on the front page and remove the one above, as in "English won the language war". -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From someone@arbitrary.org Mon Feb 11 16:44:51 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 08:44:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020211095405.12555.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello All, Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too general a topic. Maybe something like 'Python for solving Real World Problems' which has scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, and examples of real world solutions that have been implemented in Python, and another track that focuses on the more non-technical, or less specific aspects of Python in practice. Things like all the business, cultural, and development model stuff. Does that make any sense? Joseph On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 09:54, Tim Couper wrote: > Hi M Poinot :-) [too many Marcs :-)] > > The question is what do we think are hot topics that > would make people want to come? I'm not sure that > databases per se are that hot - people are probably > either using Oracle or free stuff in the relational > domain - and they are largely understood, and covered > quite extensively in the Python books available. I'm > unsure about the interest in "the database what I > wrote" talks, but they might possibly fit in well into > the Python in the Real World - as an example of the > power and flexibility of python, which made it > possible to produce an object database or whatever, > which was suited to the application space under > consideration. > > The scientific application of python is, I suppose, > "Python in the Scientific World" as opposed to "Python > in the Commercial World", which is where the "Python > in the Real World" topic started. > > However, the issues relating to Scientific python are, > I think, fundamentally techy, and whether the array > handling etc is more efficient or effective than doing > it in Fortran or C; are any such scientists going to > come who aren't already python-aware? I suspect not. > > However, I think there is great value in having papers > covering examples of scientific applications of > python, which could be presented if there's enough > interest, or handled as a BoF. These papers are > valuable, in my view, as they can form the basis of > presentations in conferences specifically focussed on > the science concerned, and it is maybe these papers > that act as the evangelistic vehicle for python within > the scientific community. > > So I think I'm arguing that Python in the Real world > could include some of the science presentations? Just > my thoughts ... > > Tim > > > --- Marc Poinot wrote: > > > > > > > In summary we now have the following tracks: > > > > > > 1. Python and Jython > > > 2. Zope > > > 3. Web Services > > > 4. Python in the Real World > > > > > > > Again, you're all focusing on web/internet... But > > it's funny you > > wrote point 4 was the real world, i.e. everything > > else but web :) > > Java, Zope, web... all these are, of course, very > > important for some > > bussiness today. I should say, I has been ? > > Most of the people I know are using Python in the > > scientific world. > > I always present Python as a gluing and/or > > prototyping langage, and > > you can see with Numerical Python or other > > scientific modules, there > > is a not-internet-related Python community. > > As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent > > with web-things, > > mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... > > This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI > > announce. > > > > I propose some scientific related Python use, but I > > must admit this will > > imply I'll have to fill the topic with some > > presentations... > > > > David Ascher ? Konrad Hinsen ? Paul Dubois ? could > > brightly open > > such a topic. Then we can have about 5/10 papers of > > scientific > > users in Europe (At least German (DLR) and French > > aerospace industry ;) > > > > I also propose something related with > > internationalisation, experts are > > very close to us and it's worth being mentioned that > > Python is ready for > > that. > > > > Then the last topic I would suggest is DBMS-related > > topics. You think web > > is the most important because every company has a > > web... but there often > > are more than one database in every company. And > > there probably is one > > DBMS behind every web. As far as I remember, C. > > Tismer has worked on DBMS > > for one of its customer ? Maybe he could be the > > topic benevolvs-dictarvr ? > > > > See Python home site topics, these main topics > > already are there. > > > > > 1. Python and Jython > > > 2. Zope > > > 3. Web Services > > 4. Python for scientific World (and Galactic if > > possible) > > 5. Databases on earth and Python > > > > Marcvs [alias This email was not generated using a > > Python module] > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > -- Joseph Santaniello http://www.arbitrary.org/ F8D7 FA00 845C DCAD 1759 57F3 CFE0 E57C CD94 10F8 -- From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 17:19:51 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:19:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: Message-ID: <3C67FD37.94CE6421@lemburg.com> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > > Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of > > Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; > > that's a road with a dead end in business talks. > > I added it in order to give an idea to the most clueless reader what > Python and Zope might be about. That kind of reader would probably have > heard of Java and J2EE and would therefore get something to hook up > to. It's often hard to explain something to someone without ever > mentionning well known "references". The problem with these references is that it causes people to judge the language or application by comparing it to one of these references. Since Python and Zope use somewhat different strategies to reach their goals compared to Java and J2EE, you'll have a hard time explaining that these different strategies can be just as good if not better. Java and J2EE are industry standards and there's nothing we can change about it (since we don't have the marketing power). Sad, but true. > If you think it's not a good idea, that's fine with me, just remove it. I did. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 19:14:34 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:14:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: Message-ID: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > Hello All, > > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too general a topic. Maybe > something like 'Python for solving Real World Problems' which has > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, and examples of real world > solutions that have been implemented in Python, and another track that > focuses on the more non-technical, or less specific aspects of Python in > practice. Things like all the business, cultural, and development model > stuff. Nothing against scientific applications, but what we Tim and I originally had in mind was a session where we could discuss business models around Python, strategies for convincing decision makers about the values of using Python in projects, total cost of ownership w/r to Python and Python applications, etc. In that sense "the Real World" meant: Python in business environments. So perhaps we need two tracks: * Python in Business * Python in Science I would also propose to have one tutorial day and two conference days (dropping the dev day). This allows us to have three tracks on each day. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From dario@ita.chalmers.se Mon Feb 11 19:47:07 2002 From: dario@ita.chalmers.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:47:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <02ab01c1b334$e38bdd30$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> ----- Original Message ----- From: "M.-A. Lemburg" > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > * Python in Business > * Python in Science > > I would also propose to have one tutorial day and two > conference days (dropping the dev day). This allows us > to have three tracks on each day. Am trying to gather some interest around zope and education on the zope-edu-list, so maybe we could have a BOF or something if interest catc= hes up? How would that fit in? /dario - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K=E4sten Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of Technology dario@ita.chalmers.se ICQ will yield no hits IT Systems & Services From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 20:54:02 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 21:54:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> <02ab01c1b334$e38bdd30$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <3C682F6A.3BAA2F7C@lemburg.com> Dario Lopez-K=E4sten wrote: >=20 > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > > > * Python in Business > > * Python in Science > > > > I would also propose to have one tutorial day and two > > conference days (dropping the dev day). This allows us > > to have three tracks on each day. >=20 > Am trying to gather some interest around zope and education on the > zope-edu-list, so maybe we could have a BOF or something if interest ca= tches > up? >=20 > How would that fit in? I'm sure that the EDU topic fits well into the tracks we currently have planned. BOF's are always an option, though, just as lightning talks -- it all depends on=20 the number of attendees. --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 11 21:02:57 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:02:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> <02ab01c1b334$e38bdd30$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> <3C682F6A.3BAA2F7C@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C683181.42698F80@lemburg.com> FYI, I've updated the track wiki: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks The general picture is to have three tracks per day. Is that possible at the location (i.e. does it provide three rooms to actually do the talks in parallel) ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From someone@arbitrary.org Mon Feb 11 21:06:00 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:06:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too general a topic. Maybe > > something like 'Python for solving Real World Problems' which has > > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, and examples of real world > > solutions that have been implemented in Python, and another track that > > focuses on the more non-technical, or less specific aspects of Python in > > practice. Things like all the business, cultural, and development model > > stuff. > > Nothing against scientific applications, but what we Tim and I > originally had in mind was a session where we could discuss > business models around Python, strategies for convincing > decision makers about the values of using Python in projects, > total cost of ownership w/r to Python and Python applications, > etc. > > In that sense "the Real World" meant: Python in business > environments. > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > * Python in Business > * Python in Science By Python in Business do you mean using Python to solve business problems (figuring out finance charges or something) or the business of using Python and getting it to be accepted, etc. If we think of it as how Python can be used to figure out business problems, it is quite similar to scientific problems (or any other for that matter) and I think perhaps it would be suitable to have a track filled with all sorts of "real world" applications of Python, be they business, scientific, or whatever. But I do agree that there should be a track specifically for the "suits" which discusses among other things the non-programming specific aspects of Python. Things like it's overall benefits, how it works well as a modelling language, how it is quick to develop with, how it's easy to read and thus maintanable, and things about how to convince non-technical sceptics that is is a viable alternative to other more well-know technologies, etc. I think we are sort of saying the same thing. Joseph From someone@arbitrary.org Mon Feb 11 21:26:10 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:26:10 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Extra-curricular activities? In-Reply-To: <3C683181.42698F80@lemburg.com> Message-ID: I recall from the O'reilly OPenSource conferences that there were "open forums" in the conference rooms after hours which groups could sign up for to discuss/do whatever they wanted to. This allowed ad-hoc groups of people to form mini-tracks on the fly, as they saw fit. That was one of the more interesting features, in my opinion. It also might be nice to have some sort of open forum for people/companies to showcase some of their work and to make potential business contacts with others in a semi-structured way. These are vauge not fully formed notions, but does this sound interesting? Joseph From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 21:31:51 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:31:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 22:06, Joseph Santaniello a =E9crit : > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > > > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too general a topic. May= be > > > something like 'Python for solving Real World Problems' which has > > > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, and examples of real > > > world solutions that have been implemented in Python, and another t= rack > > > that focuses on the more non-technical, or less specific aspects of > > > Python in practice. Things like all the business, cultural, and > > > development model stuff. > > > > Nothing against scientific applications, but what we Tim and I > > originally had in mind was a session where we could discuss > > business models around Python, strategies for convincing > > decision makers about the values of using Python in projects, > > total cost of ownership w/r to Python and Python applications, > > etc. What I (Nicolas Pettiaux) had in mind with something like "Python in the = real=20 world" has nothing to do with scientific applications (I have a physics=20 background but I am not any more in such an intersting field) but show t= hat=20 python is good to solve "business problem" just as well as java is (or be= tter=20 if you ask me !) > > In that sense "the Real World" meant: Python in business > > environments. > > > > So perhaps we need two tracks: yes, we need that, provided we find the audience for both.=20 > > * Python in Business > > * Python in Science > > By Python in Business do you mean using Python to solve business proble= ms > (figuring out finance charges or something) or the business of using > Python and getting it to be accepted, etc. Yes this is what I consider > If we think of it as how Python can be used to figure out business > problems, it is quite similar to scientific problems (or any other for > that matter) and I think perhaps it would be suitable to have a track > filled with all sorts of "real world" applications of Python, be they > business, scientific, or whatever. > > But I do agree that there should be a track specifically for the "suits= " > which discusses among other things the non-programming specific aspects= of > Python. Things like it's overall benefits, how it works well as a > modelling language, how it is quick to develop with, how it's easy to > read and thus maintanable, and things about how to convince > non-technical sceptics that is is a viable alternative to other more > well-know technologies, etc. > > I think we are sort of saying the same thing. THank you for telling what I wanted. Nicolas=20 --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Mon Feb 11 21:43:56 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 22:43:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> References: <3C667E26.179E280D@lemburg.com> <3C6783F2.33C04BF2@onera.fr> Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 09:42, Marc Poinot a =E9crit : > > In summary we now have the following tracks: > > > > 1. Python and Jython > > 2. Zope > > 3. Web Services > > 4. Python in the Real World > > Again, you're all focusing on web/internet... But it's funny you > wrote point 4 was the real world, i.e. everything else but web :) > Java, Zope, web... all these are, of course, very important for some > bussiness today. I should say, I has been ? This is just the field I am focused on now. > Most of the people I know are using Python in the scientific world. It depends on everyone's background and main field of interest=20 > I always present Python as a gluing and/or prototyping langage,=20 so do I. This is indeed independat of the metiers; can be business as we= ll=20 as science or any field > and > you can see with Numerical Python or other scientific modules, there > is a not-internet-related Python community. right > As a matter of fact, this community is less fluent with web-things, > mailing lits, dedicated web site, etc... > This morning I saw a yet-another-module-for-MPI announce. > > I propose some scientific related Python use, but I must admit this wil= l > imply I'll have to fill the topic with some presentations... You are very welcome, but I think you are right: you'll have to come with= the=20 people and the presentations. > David Ascher ? Konrad Hinsen ? Paul Dubois ? could brightly open > such a topic. Then we can have about 5/10 papers of scientific > users in Europe (At least German (DLR) and French aerospace industry ;) I would be really interested to see suc topics about scientific uses of=20 Python. > I also propose something related with internationalisation, experts are > very close to us and it's worth being mentioned that Python is ready fo= r > that. Yes definitively, a internationalisation track would be welcome .=20 As well as a track "Python in computer education" I think. > Then the last topic I would suggest is DBMS-related topics. You think w= eb > is the most important because every company has a web... but there ofte= n > are more than one database in every company. And there probably is one > DBMS behind every web. As far as I remember, C. Tismer has worked on DB= MS > for one of its customer ? Maybe he could be the topic benevolvs-dictarv= r ? Goo idea too > See Python home site topics, these main topics already are there. > > > 1. Python and Jython > > 2. Zope > > 3. Web Services > > 4. Python for scientific World (and Galactic if possible) > 5. Databases on earth and Python Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <027801c1b350$540b0b10$268d84d5@skullsplitter> > http://www.europython.org now points to the new still empty website. > I'll repeat my call for someone doing the web design; pushing it a > leeetle bit beyond its current minimalistic design would be a good idea. :) > > Tom Deprez is already working on it all. If you want to help, contact either me or him to get a Zope login. Correction, I haven't done anything yet, sorry!... Had/Have some family obligations.... Now, what do we want at the website? Anybody an idea for how it has to look like? Examples? > Thanks to Ivo van der Wijk and Thomas Reulbach for getting the ball > running on the website! > > Thanks to Ivo we now also have wiki capability on this website; you can > add ZWiki objects. I've set up a completely minimal wiki at: > > http://www.europython.org/wiki > > Wiki away! Let me know if you need anything. Right now it's completely > open to everybody, but perhaps we want to change that later. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:06:15 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:06:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press-Release French In-Reply-To: <20020211143657.N49147@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020211134254.A26073@carolo.net> <3C67BEB8.BDCCDAFE@onera.fr> <20020211143657.N49147@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 14:36, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit : > Je reste sur mon commentaire initial: si on se met =E0 la place du > journaliste, qui a priori n'a jamais entendu parler de Python (sauf s'i= l > =E9crit pour Programmez!, Developpeur Reference, Login: ou Gnu/Linux&Hu= rd > Magazine France), on ne comprend rien et on passe au communiqu=E9 suiva= nt. tout a fait juste. il faut des exemples et comparaison par rapport =E0 qu= elques=20 "buzz" (comme java)=20 Nicolas> =09 --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:09:29 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:09:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 16:47, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit :=09 > I would suggest rewriting the title like: > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi, > Belgium, June 26-28 > > And the header like: > > =09Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 > > =09For immediate release > > =09The EuroPython Conference Team announces that the European Python an= d Zope > =09Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, Belgium.= This > =09conference is an unique opportunity to bring together developers and= users > of Python, the fastest growing open source / free software scripting > language, and Zope, the leading open source / free software application > server and content management platform. [Add more important informatio= n > here] very good I like that . Who's putting that in the wiki and making th=20 ecorresponding changes ? Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From Tom Deprez" Damn, I've been only a few days away and I'm totally lost in the EuroPython mails. Great to see much activity, but couldn't we find a more ordered way of handling things? It's hard to follow if you've to waid through all the messages. Sigh,... back to reading all the messages :-) Regards, Tom. From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:18:59 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:18:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020211171500.A76572@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211171500.A76572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 17:15, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit : > > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charler= oi, > > > Belgium, June 26-28 > > > > Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an > > emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original > > intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... > > "European Python and Zope Conference" was something I took from the > current PR. > But I think that the original intent, back in december in Charleroi, wa= s > to call it that way, since this would bring more people to it. For me it was indeed ... just in between, with python first and zope real= ly=20 next to it. I can personnally sell python mainly through zope !.=20 THis is why I use: European Python and Zope or EuroPython/Zope=20 > > > And the header like: > > > > > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 THis stresses the point that there is much local support. Good idea. > We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython > > Conference Team is "officially" located. We can distinguish the location from the annoucenement places, can't we ? > That's an option. But giving a lot of places is a way to say this is tr= ully > a european event. YES=20 > > > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, > > > Belgium. This conference is an unique opportunity to bring togethe= r > > > developers and users of > > > > The press release has the order right: "users and developers" :-) > > OK. > > > > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software > > > scripting language, and Zope, the leading open source / free softwa= re > > > application server and content management platform. [Add more > > > important information here] > > > > Let's just leave it at "open source". I wouldn't want us to get > > into discussions about what definition of "free" we mean here and, > > most of all, avoid any confusion this whole discussion might > > cause. Again, the press release is right here. this is true but in MANY places at the European Commission and public=20 adminsitrations, people are not anymore saying open source byut free or l= ibre=20 software, stressing the freedom it gives. I propose to keep Stefane's proposal and refuse to debate about that (for= =20 many it is the same anyway) > > Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of > > Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; > > that's a road with a dead end in business talks. > > Right. but the reference was good. need to find somthing else. Thanks, NPE --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From someone@arbitrary.org Mon Feb 11 23:20:19 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:20:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Website update In-Reply-To: <027801c1b350$540b0b10$268d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 23:52, Tom Deprez wrote: > > http://www.europython.org now points to the new still empty website. > > I'll repeat my call for someone doing the web design; pushing it a > > leeetle bit beyond its current minimalistic design would be a good idea. > :) > > > > Tom Deprez is already working on it all. If you want to help, contact > either me or him to get a Zope login. > > Correction, I haven't done anything yet, sorry!... Had/Have some family > obligations.... > Now, what do we want at the website? Anybody an idea for how it has to look > like? Examples? Hi Tom, Are you interested in working on the technical details of the web site, or the graphical elements, or both? I say this because a someone whom I have helped with some Zope backend stuff for some of his clients is perhaps interested in helping with the graphic stuff, so if you don't want to do the graphic stuff, I'll let them know that it's maybe open for them. Joseph > > > Thanks to Ivo van der Wijk and Thomas Reulbach for getting the ball > > running on the website! > > > > Thanks to Ivo we now also have wiki capability on this website; you can > > add ZWiki objects. I've set up a completely minimal wiki at: > > > > http://www.europython.org/wiki > > > > Wiki away! Let me know if you need anything. Right now it's completely > > open to everybody, but perhaps we want to change that later. > > > > Regards, > > > > Martijn > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > EuroPython mailing list > > EuroPython@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > -- Joseph Santaniello http://www.arbitrary.org/ F8D7 FA00 845C DCAD 1759 57F3 CFE0 E57C CD94 10F8 -- From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:20:36 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:20:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Aarggh... In-Reply-To: <02f601c1b352$793b3ca0$268d84d5@skullsplitter> References: <02f601c1b352$793b3ca0$268d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 00:07, Tom Deprez a =E9crit : > Damn, I've been only a few days away and I'm totally lost in the EuroPy= thon > mails. Dear Tom, please go and have a look at the wiki on www.europython.org/wiki=20 It is nearly a summary and will let you start with the last situation. > Great to see much activity, but couldn't we find a more ordered way of > handling things? It's hard to follow if you've to waid through all the > messages. the wiki is mainly the right answer. Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:23:09 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:23:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Extra-curricular activities? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 22:26, Joseph Santaniello a =E9crit : > I recall from the O'reilly OPenSource conferences that there were "open > forums" in the conference rooms after hours which groups could sign up = for > to discuss/do whatever they wanted to. This allowed ad-hoc groups of > people to form mini-tracks on the fly, as they saw fit. > > That was one of the more interesting features, in my opinion. > > It also might be nice to have some sort of open forum for people/compan= ies > to showcase some of their work and to make potential business contacts > with others in a semi-structured way. Very important for the business track =20 > These are vauge not fully formed notions, but does this sound interesti= ng? YES Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From someone@arbitrary.org Mon Feb 11 23:25:00 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 15:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Aarggh... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 at 00:20, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 00:07, Tom Deprez a =E9crit : > > Damn, I've been only a few days away and I'm totally lost in the Euro= Python > > mails. >=20 > Dear Tom, >=20 > please go and have a look at the wiki on www.europython.org/wiki=20 >=20 > It is nearly a summary and will let you start with the last situation. >=20 > > Great to see much activity, but couldn't we find a more ordered way o= f > > handling things? It's hard to follow if you've to waid through all th= e > > messages. >=20 > the wiki is mainly the right answer. What is the "protocol" for responsible wiki editing? I don't want to go=20 messing anything up for someone. Joseph >=20 > Nicolas >=20 --=20 Joseph Santaniello http://www.arbitrary.org/ F8D7 FA00 845C DCAD 1759 57F3 CFE0 E57C CD94 10F8 -- From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Mon Feb 11 23:24:00 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:24:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <02ab01c1b334$e38bdd30$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> <02ab01c1b334$e38bdd30$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: > Am trying to gather some interest around zope and education on the > zope-edu-list, so maybe we could have a BOF or something if interest > catches up? > > How would that fit in? very well for me.=20 I changed the wiki to reflect this. Please go on and add your ideas there= =2E Thanks NPE --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:29:35 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:29:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: References: <20020211095405.12555.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020211232935.GA28241@vet.uu.nl> Joseph Santaniello wrote: > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too general a topic. Maybe > something like 'Python for solving Real World Problems' which has > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, and examples of real world > solutions that have been implemented in Python, and another track that > focuses on the more non-technical, or less specific aspects of Python in > practice. Things like all the business, cultural, and development model > stuff. That's a good split. There's Python applications (within science, the web, etc, which can be different tracks), and there's Python's political/cultural aspects (python in an organization, how to use Python's strengths, what to watch out for, how to get Python accepted, etc). Then there's also 'cool Python technologies', which could be a presentation on the ZODB, on the Psyco specializing compiler, Jython, microthreads and so on. Sometimes that's better in tutorial form, sometimes it's better to do a presentation; it depends on how mature the topic area is among others. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:34:53 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:34:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Extra-curricular activities? In-Reply-To: References: <3C683181.42698F80@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211233453.GB28241@vet.uu.nl> Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > I recall from the O'reilly OPenSource conferences that there were "open > forums" in the conference rooms after hours which groups could sign up for > to discuss/do whatever they wanted to. This allowed ad-hoc groups of > people to form mini-tracks on the fly, as they saw fit. > > That was one of the more interesting features, in my opinion. Right, these would be Birds of a Feather sessions. These can be entirely ad-hoc, or can be a bit more structured with some presentations included. I also much enjoyed last years (couldn't attend this year) lightning talks. I think a lightning talk session would be neat to have. A lightning talk consists of a very short (I think it was 10 minutes or so) presentation on some issue, and you'd have a lot in a row. > It also might be nice to have some sort of open forum for people/companies > to showcase some of their work and to make potential business contacts > with others in a semi-structured way. Sort of like a poster presentation session, I think. > These are vauge not fully formed notions, but does this sound interesting? Yes, they make sense. I'll add a wiki page on stuff like this.. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:40:52 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:40:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3c64363e.46035976@mail.wanadoo.dk> References: <3c64363e.46035976@mail.wanadoo.dk> Message-ID: <20020211234052.GC28241@vet.uu.nl> Finn Bock wrote: > [Martijn Faassen] > > >Don't we have a bunch of European Jython hackers? Now what's his name.. > >Right, Finn Bock in Denmark. > > And Samuele Pedroni with a .ch domain. Can you contact him, if he's not already on the list? > >I've just sent off an email to him asking if he's interested. > > I am. Not sure what kind of topics you have been discussing, but if you > are looking for a session where I go over a number of the technical > issues and decissions that faces jython, then I could do that. Excellent, I'll add a Jython session to the wiki. Oh, there's one already there, I think.. we need to start fleshing out actual talks, I'll open a wiki page, PeopleAndTalks to keep a list. Everyone's free to add people (including themselves) to this list. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:43:26 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:43:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020211234326.GD28241@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > I am glad to announce that we (Logilab) plan on helping as much as we can > with the EuroPythonZopeConference. I assume you know us already (at least > we know most of you :-), but in case you wouldn't, check out > > http://www.logilab.org/ Much cheering from me! You were on my mental list of people to contact. Once you stop to think about it, it's amazing how much cool Python development actually happens right here in Europe. Thanks, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:48:01 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:48:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020211234801.GE28241@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > I updated the english PR in an effort to make it more journalist > friendly. You folks let me know what you think of my changes or just > revert them. I've altered 'the leading' for both Zope & Python to 'a leading', which still sounds impressive and invokes less debate. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:52:41 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:52:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211235241.GF28241@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > I would suggest rewriting the title like: > > > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi, Belgium, > > June 26-28 > > Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an > emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original > intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... While the original intent was to have a conference about Python (..and then also Zope), i.e. Zope comes second, there weren't any sudden changes in emphasis at all. If this is a political issue I for one am quite willing to drop the 'and Zope' from the title, however. > > And the header like: > > > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 > > We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython > Conference Team is "officially" located. Right, and I'm in Rotterdam or in Utrecht, depending on when you're looking. Though www.europython.org runs in Amsterdam. :) [snip comments from Marc-Andre that are sensible; stay away from mentioning Java, let's not get lost in the free/open source debate, etc] I don't know who has the final version of the press release now.. Can we pick one or two people who manage this whole press release story? I'd be glad to let others do this. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:55:51 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:55:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67E8BF.D2F2493F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211235551.GG28241@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > We have a Wiki at http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/FrontPage, a > French only announcement on http://www.europython.org/ and a different > one on the P3B site. The first two are in fact the same site. Due to DNS issues not in my control www.europython.org points at europython.zope.nl, but it's not a DNSy pointing but a redirect-style pointing, I think... Thomas Reulbach and Ivo van der Wijk can get together to fix this. Tom Deprez will hopefully work with Denis to move the stuff from the P3B site towards the www.europython.org site. > Please also note that the Wiki should be considered the official > source of documents. Any changes or new documents should go there. Agreed. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 11 23:59:48 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 00:59:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C67E5CC.BC9ABC5F@lemburg.com> References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E5CC.BC9ABC5F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020211235948.GH28241@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > > Could someone say clearly when the English Press Release > > is declared to be finished, so I can translate it in German, > > please? > > Let's put a deadline on it: next Friday. Sounds good. This is then also the deadline after which we should start with the translation from the English source text? > Then we should take whatever is there and post it to the relevant > press entities. Perhaps we should start a wiki page listing these press entities, so we can actually coordinate which one we contact and we have a handy list for the next time we'll send out a press release. I'll start a preliminary list. > Would be nice to have some more translations... French, Spanish, > Italian, Russian (my girl friend can help with that one), Polish, > etc. I can do the Dutch one. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 00:05:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:05:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212000503.GI28241@vet.uu.nl> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:54:47AM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Hi, > > > > maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember > > having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. > > Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? > > As said during the december meeting that my company, Nuxeo, could probably > give 500 Euros, but it's too early to make a firm commitment. Infrae (mine and Kit Blake's company) can put in some euros too. Paul Everitt also wrote in before and said Zope Corporation could contribute a 'couple of hundred bucks'. We need some kind of policy though so that sponsors can start sponsoring, and know what they'll get back for it. Perhaps sponsors get space for a poster presentation of some sort? And of course they get added to some list of sponsors we'll display prominently everywhere. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 00:05:39 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:05:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <3C67E42A.1D53DEF0@lemburg.com> References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E42A.1D53DEF0@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212000539.GJ28241@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > We'll need to budget this event in order to be able to tell > how much sponsoring we need. Ideal would be to get some EU > funds for the event, but I don't know whether we have any > EU contacts... ? Nicolas P does. Regards, Martijn From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 12 00:20:56 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:20:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press-Release French In-Reply-To: References: <20020211134254.A26073@carolo.net> <3C67BEB8.BDCCDAFE@onera.fr> <20020211143657.N49147@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212012056.B29076@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:06:15AM +0100, Nicolas Pettiaux pianota: > Le Lundi 11 F=E9vrier 2002 14:36, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit : >=20 > > Je reste sur mon commentaire initial: si on se met =E0 la place du > > journaliste, qui a priori n'a jamais entendu parler de Python (sauf s= 'il > > =E9crit pour Programmez!, Developpeur Reference, Login: ou Gnu/Linux&= Hurd > > Magazine France), on ne comprend rien et on passe au communiqu=E9 sui= vant. >=20 > tout a fait juste. il faut des exemples et comparaison par rapport =E0 = quelques=20 > "buzz" (comme java)=20 I don't know if it's what St=E9fane meant. A+ --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 00:23:33 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:23:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Aarggh... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020212002333.GA28951@vet.uu.nl> Joseph Santaniello wrote: > What is the "protocol" for responsible wiki editing? I don't want to go > messing anything up for someone. No protocol yet. I could probably add all sorts of logins and security stuff with sufficient work, but I think we'd better run with the flexibility and take the occasional lossage. It's possible to use Zope's undo if something really important got lost, too. Just contact me, Denis or Tom about it in that case. We do have the creator of the MoinMoin wiki on this list, though. We may eventually want to consider using that one instead, it may have a few useful features (ZWiki generally has a 'some assembly required' feel to it..). Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 00:26:35 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:26:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Website update In-Reply-To: References: <027801c1b350$540b0b10$268d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020212002635.GB28951@vet.uu.nl> Joseph Santaniello wrote: [asking Tom] > Are you interested in working on the technical details of the web site, or > the graphical elements, or both? I say this because a someone whom > I have helped with some Zope backend stuff for some of his clients is > perhaps interested in helping with the graphic stuff, so if you don't want > to do the graphic stuff, I'll let them know that it's maybe open for them. I'm not Tom, but I think we can always use him, so feel free to let him know it's open to him. Tell him to get in touch with Tom so they can coordinate stuff. I can help with some technical stuff for the website as well, but I think I'll work through Tom. Tom, if you want a (formulator) form for something, you know how to reach me. :) Regards, Martijn From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 12 01:44:14 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 02:44:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020211232935.GA28241@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020211095405.12555.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> <20020211232935.GA28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020212024414.D29076@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 12:29:35AM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > > That's a good split. There's Python applications (within science, the web, > etc, which can be different tracks), and there's Python's political/cultural > aspects (python in an organization, how to use Python's strengths, what > to watch out for, how to get Python accepted, etc). > > Then there's also 'cool Python technologies', which could be a presentation > on the ZODB, on the Psyco specializing compiler, Jython, microthreads and > so on. Does some of you know a Visual Python team mate ? It's very visual :-) and hence appealing... Good we get "warm" ! Now, keep in mind the facts : 1. Rooms : Would I cold your enthousiasm if I send you to the URL : http://www.ceme.be/en/sallea.htm and that one : http://www.ceme.be/en/salleb.htm for you having a good idea of the available rooms ? (The multi-purpose room would be left for the meals) 2. Time : As I told you in a previous mail, we should leave the building before 13h00 on the Friday. That's why I thought we could have such a grid : --------------------------------------------------------- | AM | midday | PM | evening | --------------------------------------------------------- Wednesday 26 | Conf. | lunch in | Conf. | social | | | the CEME | | activity | --------------------------------------------------------- Thursday 27 | Conf. | lunch in | Conf. | social | | | the CEME | | activity | --------------------------------------------------------- Friday 28 | Conf. | lunch somewhere else followed| | | by free (openair?) discussions| --------------------------------------------------------- 3. Attendence : How many people do we expect to have in each category ? Developpers Users Curious Business Education Administration ... OK, now we have a grid, let's fill the cells. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From someone@arbitrary.org Tue Feb 12 04:34:44 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:34:44 -0800 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <20020212000503.GI28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: On Monday, February 11, 2002, at 04:05 , Martijn Faassen wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: >> On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:54:47AM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember >>> having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. >>> Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? >> >> As said during the december meeting that my company, Nuxeo, could >> probably >> give 500 Euros, but it's too early to make a firm commitment. > > Infrae (mine and Kit Blake's company) can put in some euros too. Paul > Everitt also wrote in before and said Zope Corporation could > contribute a > 'couple of hundred bucks'. > > We need some kind of policy though so that sponsors can start > sponsoring, > and know what they'll get back for it. Perhaps sponsors get space for > a poster presentation of some sort? And of course they get added to some > list of sponsors we'll display prominently everywhere. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > Another idea for covering expenses is having raffle prizes. For example the meeting rooms could have temporary 802.11b wireless access points set up, and for 5 euros or whatever attendees could buy raffle tickets to win them at the end of the conference. Maybe getting sponsors to donate hardware like this would be easier than cash. Joseph From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 06:00:00 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:00:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Education competition and price + sponsors Message-ID: Dear all, 2 ideas : 1/ Python is a good rapid application developpement tool, that is also ea= sy=20 to learn.=20 Why dont't we launch a contest in the European schools and high school we= =20 know in Europe for an application, in python, on any platform (showing py= hton=20 portability) ? THe price would be given at during the conference by=20 aplitician. THis can attrat both politicians (they like distributing pric= es,=20 this is not hard to do !) and public. 2/ contact sponsors, especially the ones that supported the Python10=20 conference and editors who publish python/zope books to ask them to give = us=20 some books to distribute. Also contact O'Reilly (but mind that we are not= =20 selling the conference, just looking for partners) O'Reilly is supporting= =20 FOSDEM in BRussels next week.=20 Is there some one volunteering for that ?=20 Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 06:06:52 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:06:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <20020212000539.GJ28241@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E42A.1D53DEF0@lemburg.com> <20020212000539.GJ28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 01:05, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > We'll need to budget this event in order to be able to tell > > how much sponsoring we need. Ideal would be to get some EU > > funds for the event, but I don't know whether we have any > > EU contacts... ? > Nicolas P does. OK we shall have some support though the ASWAD project.=20 Don't know the amount yet. Could hopefully be of the order or 2000 EUR. I'll start to see next week if we can find more. Couldn't we start also a contributions/supports/donations page ? Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 06:08:17 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 07:08:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020211234326.GD28241@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020211234326.GD28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 00:43, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > > =09http://www.logilab.org/ > > Much cheering from me! You were on my mental list of people to contact. > > Once you stop to think about it, it's amazing how much cool Python > development actually happens right here in Europe. this is very true and needs to be emphasized. Nicolas P --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Feb 12 07:19:49 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:19:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceOrganizers page added Message-ID: <1013498389.3c68c21553e49@webmail.in-berlin.de> Bonjour, as I'm probably not the only one getting increasingly confused about the matter, I added a ConferenceOrganizers page to the Wiki with three initial names on it that were among the latest in my mailbox: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceOrganizers I hope, everybody will write a concise paragraph sooner or later about his or her role(s) during that conference prepara- tion. And I hope this overview will be useful for all others, but also for these people themselves! ;-) Amities, Dinu From tim@2wave.net Tue Feb 12 08:54:59 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 08:54:59 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> OK. So we're agreed broadly about the scope. However, we do need to get the right topic title, 'cos if we're confused, it'll be 10x worse for attendees! "Suits". While it's unlikely that members of this species will appear at a Python conference (it being perceived as a techy conference), what's probably wanted is a clear presentation of the arguments and resources that can be used/available to win hearts and minds of such persons. This is one of the key thoughts behind the Python and Business track (perhaps "Business" is misleading). With that as a goal, I think we need case studies based on "this is the organisation and its mindset, here's what we did and here's how we changed it (or failed to change it and why)". Clearly this is applicable to anyone who's trying to use python in their work - either in the commercial or scientific domains. I'm unsure how much interest/overlap there is between these 2 domains, insofar as the "suit" problems being addressed overlap - although one does need arguments for both managerial "Suits" and technical "Prima Donnas". Maybe we should call the session "My mind's made up; don't confuse me with the facts" ... Anyway, looking at practicalities, if this is where we want to go, I wonder if we could have a series of 10-15 minute talks, say for an afternoon, asking presenters to focus on the issues which enabled them to succeed in introducing, or reinforcing the use of, Python in their organisation, and can follow it with a BOF for those who'd like to develop or promote any ideas further. Just my 2 (euro)cents Tim --- Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too > general a topic. Maybe > > > something like 'Python for solving Real World > Problems' which has > > > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, > and examples of real world > > > solutions that have been implemented in Python, > and another track that > > > focuses on the more non-technical, or less > specific aspects of Python in > > > practice. Things like all the business, > cultural, and development model > > > stuff. > > > > Nothing against scientific applications, but what > we Tim and I > > originally had in mind was a session where we > could discuss > > business models around Python, strategies for > convincing > > decision makers about the values of using Python > in projects, > > total cost of ownership w/r to Python and Python > applications, > > etc. > > > > In that sense "the Real World" meant: Python in > business > > environments. > > > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > > > * Python in Business > > * Python in Science > > > By Python in Business do you mean using Python to > solve business problems > (figuring out finance charges or something) or the > business of using > Python and getting it to be accepted, etc. > > If we think of it as how Python can be used to > figure out business > problems, it is quite similar to scientific problems > (or any other for > that matter) and I think perhaps it would be > suitable to have a track > filled with all sorts of "real world" applications > of Python, be they > business, scientific, or whatever. > > But I do agree that there should be a track > specifically for the "suits" > which discusses among other things the > non-programming specific aspects of > Python. Things like it's overall benefits, how it > works well as a > modelling language, how it is quick to develop with, > how it's easy to > read and thus maintanable, and things about how to > convince > non-technical sceptics that is is a viable > alternative to other more > well-know technologies, etc. > > I think we are sort of saying the same thing. > > Joseph > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Tue Feb 12 08:55:57 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:55:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers Message-ID: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> How can I invite speakers ? I have some contacts, at least with 3 speakers for papers. But I want to invite some US speakers and I wonder if some of you has an idea ? Or a piece of idea ? Or a beginning of a piece of a bit of a thought ? Plane ticket, hotel ? So far, I'm telling people to give an informal agreement and to reserve the days. Marcvs [alias Scientists and industrial Pythoneers track is on the track] From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 12 08:59:41 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:59:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr>; from Marc.Poinot@onera.fr on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 09:55:57AM +0100 References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> Message-ID: <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 09:55:57AM +0100, Marc Poinot wrote: >=20 > How can I invite speakers ? >=20 > I have some contacts, at least with 3 speakers for papers. But I want > to invite some US speakers and I wonder if some of you has an idea ? > Or a piece of idea ? Or a beginning of a piece of a bit of a thought ? >=20 > Plane ticket, hotel ? >=20 > So far, I'm telling people to give an informal agreement and to reserve > the days.=20 Shouldn't there be a conference commitee, with a call for papers and a selection among the submited papers ? S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From Marc.Poinot@onera.fr Tue Feb 12 09:03:18 2002 From: Marc.Poinot@onera.fr (Marc Poinot) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:03:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 09:55:57AM +0100, Marc Poinot wrote: > > > > How can I invite speakers ? > > > > I have some contacts, at least with 3 speakers for papers. But I want > > to invite some US speakers and I wonder if some of you has an idea ? > > Or a piece of idea ? Or a beginning of a piece of a bit of a thought ? > > > > Plane ticket, hotel ? > > > > So far, I'm telling people to give an informal agreement and to reserve > > the days. > > Shouldn't there be a conference commitee, with a call for papers and a > selection among the submited papers ? > For paper, yes. But I'm not sure we will have hundred of proposals... For invited speakers ? I agree you would like to give a yes/no to all proposals, but we certainly need to have some gourous... Marcvs [alias My proposed invited speaker is P. Dubois] From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 12 09:16:25 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:16:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr>; from Marc.Poinot@onera.fr on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:03:18AM +0100 References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> Message-ID: <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:03:18AM +0100, Marc Poinot wrote: > For paper, yes. But I'm not sure we will have hundred of proposals... >=20 > For invited speakers ? I agree you would like to give a yes/no to all > proposals, but we certainly need to have some gourous... Right. But I think the names of people to contact should be decided by the conference commitee (of which, as I stated in Charleroi in december, I'm willing to take part) beforehand. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 09:26:28 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:26:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211171500.A76572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C68DFC4.C933E296@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > > > > And the header like: > > > > > > > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 > > THis stresses the point that there is much local support. Good idea. > > > We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython > > > Conference Team is "officially" located. > > We can distinguish the location from the annoucenement places, can't we ? > > > That's an option. But giving a lot of places is a way to say this is trully > > a european event. > > YES Except that it looks silly and is not what you'd normally put into a press release text. Since the organization team has it's official lieu in Chareloi, that's the place to put into the text. > > > > Conference 2002 will take place on June 26-28 in Charleroi, > > > > Belgium. This conference is an unique opportunity to bring together > > > > developers and users of > > > > > > The press release has the order right: "users and developers" :-) > > > > OK. > > > > > > Python, the fastest growing open source / free software > > > > scripting language, and Zope, the leading open source / free software > > > > application server and content management platform. [Add more > > > > important information here] > > > > > > Let's just leave it at "open source". I wouldn't want us to get > > > into discussions about what definition of "free" we mean here and, > > > most of all, avoid any confusion this whole discussion might > > > cause. Again, the press release is right here. > > this is true but in MANY places at the European Commission and public > adminsitrations, people are not anymore saying open source byut free or libre > software, stressing the freedom it gives. > > I propose to keep Stefane's proposal and refuse to debate about that (for > many it is the same anyway) I'm strongly -1 on that one and refuse any discussion on that one :-) Seriously, we don't need politics in the announcement. This is not the FSF, it's EuroPython. It is generally understood that open source is a superset of free software. > > > Something I changed in the press-release is the mentioning of > > > Java: you don't want to compare Python to Java or Zope to J2EE; > > > that's a road with a dead end in business talks. > > > > Right. > > but the reference was good. need to find somthing else. The web-sites should have enough information on this. I don't really think we do ourselves any good by trying to compress a comparison into one short sentence. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 12 09:42:28 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:42:28 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > * Python in Business > * Python in Science As Python is largely used in science, I think it would be good to provide a gathering place for all those who use it that way. As someone already proposed, I think Konrad Hinsen (hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr) would be a nice person to organize the track. If he doesn't want to, I am willing to do it, but be aware that Logilab offers professional training for Python+Science. That would help me to set up the track as we already have many contacts, but I wouldn't want people to think that I am doing it only out of interest. One solution would be for both of us to organize it together. Comments ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 12 09:44:00 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:44:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C68DFC4.C933E296@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:26:28AM +0100 References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211171500.A76572@math.jussieu.fr> <3C68DFC4.C933E296@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:26:28AM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >=20 > Seriously, we don't need politics in the announcement. This is > not the FSF, it's EuroPython. It is generally understood that=20 > open source is a superset of free software. It is understood by me that free software and open source software are basically two different ways to name the same kind of software, but that = people strongly disagree on the best word to use. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 09:49:06 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:49:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Extra-curricular activities? References: <3C683181.42698F80@lemburg.com> <20020211233453.GB28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C68E512.22C8FB73@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > > I recall from the O'reilly OPenSource conferences that there were "open > > forums" in the conference rooms after hours which groups could sign up for > > to discuss/do whatever they wanted to. This allowed ad-hoc groups of > > people to form mini-tracks on the fly, as they saw fit. > > > > That was one of the more interesting features, in my opinion. > > Right, these would be Birds of a Feather sessions. These can be entirely > ad-hoc, or can be a bit more structured with some presentations included. > > I also much enjoyed last years (couldn't attend this year) lightning talks. > I think a lightning talk session would be neat to have. A lightning talk > consists of a very short (I think it was 10 minutes or so) presentation on > some issue, and you'd have a lot in a row. In summary, we'll need * BOFs (small get-together-like discussion rounds with a BOF manager; these should be planned shortly before the conference), and * Lightning Talks (very short presentations on various subjects, to be announced at the conference), Since we can't really plan them now, I suggest to just integrate these into the time table somewhere. I'm not sure whether we can start creating a time table just yet, though :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 09:56:28 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:56:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211235241.GF28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C68E6CC.D5D2B0F8@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > > > I would suggest rewriting the title like: > > > > > > European Python and Zope Conference 2002 to take place in Charleroi, Belgium, > > > June 26-28 > > > > Hmm, maybe I have missed something here, but why is there such an > > emphasis on "Zope Conference" all of the sudden ? AFAIR, the original > > intent was to have a Zope track at a Python conference... > > While the original intent was to have a conference about Python (..and > then also Zope), i.e. Zope comes second, there weren't any sudden > changes in emphasis at all. > > If this is a political issue I for one am quite willing to drop > the 'and Zope' from the title, however. I don't have an issue with it, but the current press release text puts more emphasis on Zope than on Python and that's not what I had expected from the first *Python* conference in Europe (after many many years). > > > And the header like: > > > > > > Charleroi, Brussels, Paris, Amsterdam, xxx, February 11 > > > > We should just use Charleroi, since that's where the EuroPython > > Conference Team is "officially" located. > > Right, and I'm in Rotterdam or in Utrecht, depending on when you're looking. > Though www.europython.org runs in Amsterdam. :) > > [snip comments from Marc-Andre that are sensible; stay away from mentioning > Java, let's not get lost in the free/open source debate, etc] > > I don't know who has the final version of the press release now.. Can we > pick one or two people who manage this whole press release story? I'd be > glad to let others do this. :) The wiki has the current version and we put a deadline on the text: next friday. After that we'll need up-to-date translations and can then start pushing the release out the door. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 12 10:00:31 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:00:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C68E6CC.D5D2B0F8@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:56:28AM +0100 References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211235241.GF28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E6CC.D5D2B0F8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212110031.D63572@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:56:28AM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >=20 > > While the original intent was to have a conference about Python (..an= d > > then also Zope), i.e. Zope comes second, there weren't any sudden > > changes in emphasis at all. > >=20 > > If this is a political issue I for one am quite willing to drop > > the 'and Zope' from the title, however. >=20 > I don't have an issue with it, but the current press release > text puts more emphasis on Zope than on Python and that's > not what I had expected from the first *Python* conference > in Europe (after many many years). Right. > The wiki has the current version and we put a deadline on the text: > next friday. After that we'll need up-to-date translations and can > then start pushing the release out the door. Great! (Spreading the word about how great Python is is pretty exciting f= or me.) S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 10:01:59 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:01:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E5CC.BC9ABC5F@lemburg.com> <20020211235948.GH28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C68E817.E5992511@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > Then we should take whatever is there and post it to the relevant > > press entities. > > Perhaps we should start a wiki page listing these press entities, so we > can actually coordinate which one we contact and we have a handy list for > the next time we'll send out a press release. I'll start a preliminary > list. Good idea... (how do you add pages to a wiki ?) > > Would be nice to have some more translations... French, Spanish, > > Italian, Russian (my girl friend can help with that one), Polish, > > etc. > > I can do the Dutch one. Great. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 10:07:21 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:07:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212000503.GI28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C68E959.EF00394E@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Mon, Feb 11, 2002 at 09:54:47AM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > maybe I just forgot about it, but I don't quite remember > > > having seen anybody mentioning the sponsoring issue. > > > Could anybody elaborate a bit on this one, please? > > > > As said during the december meeting that my company, Nuxeo, could probably > > give 500 Euros, but it's too early to make a firm commitment. > > Infrae (mine and Kit Blake's company) can put in some euros too. Paul > Everitt also wrote in before and said Zope Corporation could contribute a > 'couple of hundred bucks'. > > We need some kind of policy though so that sponsors can start sponsoring, > and know what they'll get back for it. Perhaps sponsors get space for > a poster presentation of some sort? And of course they get added to some > list of sponsors we'll display prominently everywhere. Good idea. Let's mimic what Foretec does/did at the IPC conferences: they have different categories of sponsorship and depending on the category, the logos et al. are made visible on announcements, the web-site, the conference table, the badge... The good thing about having categories is that we provide "guidelines" for the amount of sponsoring, rather than the sponsors. Of course, before determining the amounts, we'll need to figure out a budget for the event. Does anybody here have experience with conference budgets ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 12 10:10:59 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:10:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:26:28AM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > > Seriously, we don't need politics in the announcement. This is > > not the FSF, it's EuroPython. It is generally understood that > > open source is a superset of free software. > > It is understood by me that free software and open source software are > basically two different ways to name the same kind of software, but > that people strongly disagree on the best word to use. I would suggest we delay such wars until after the conference... -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 12 10:24:01 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:24:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: ; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 11:10:59AM +0100 References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 11:10:59AM +0100, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 10:26:28AM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > >=20 > > > Seriously, we don't need politics in the announcement. This is > > > not the FSF, it's EuroPython. It is generally understood that=20 > > > open source is a superset of free software. > >=20 > > It is understood by me that free software and open source software ar= e > > basically two different ways to name the same kind of software, but > > that people strongly disagree on the best word to use. >=20 > I would suggest we delay such wars until after the conference... Me too. Hence "free and open source software". S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 10:27:08 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:27:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020211095405.12555.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com> <20020211232935.GA28241@vet.uu.nl> <20020212024414.D29076@carolo.net> Message-ID: <3C68EDFC.D5679E6E@lemburg.com> Denis wrote: > > Now, keep in mind the facts : > > 1. Rooms : > Would I cold your enthousiasm if I send you to the URL : > http://www.ceme.be/en/sallea.htm > and that one : > http://www.ceme.be/en/salleb.htm > for you having a good idea of the available rooms ? > (The multi-purpose room would be left for the meals) Hmm, wouldn't it be better to do catering in the bar/cafeteria ? That way we can split the multi-purpose room in two and use it and the auditorium for the three tracks we have per day. > 2. Time : > As I told you in a previous mail, we should leave the building before > 13h00 on the Friday. > That's why I thought we could have such a grid : > --------------------------------------------------------- > | AM | midday | PM | evening | > --------------------------------------------------------- > Wednesday 26 | Conf. | lunch in | Conf. | social | > | | the CEME | | activity | > --------------------------------------------------------- > Thursday 27 | Conf. | lunch in | Conf. | social | > | | the CEME | | activity | > --------------------------------------------------------- > Friday 28 | Conf. | lunch somewhere else followed| > | | by free (openair?) discussions| > --------------------------------------------------------- FYI, I put this in the wiki: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTimetable To bad that we can't have the Friday afternoon too. Is there some other place we could move the gathering on that day ? > 3. Attendence : > How many people do we expect to have in each category ? > Developpers > Users > Curious > Business > Education > Administration > ... Same here: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceAttendees -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 10:43:47 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:43:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E42A.1D53DEF0@lemburg.com> <20020212000539.GJ28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C68F1E3.2A43D5D6@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 01:05, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > We'll need to budget this event in order to be able to tell > > > how much sponsoring we need. Ideal would be to get some EU > > > funds for the event, but I don't know whether we have any > > > EU contacts... ? >=20 > > Nicolas P does. >=20 > OK we shall have some support though the ASWAD project. >=20 > Don't know the amount yet. Could hopefully be of the order or 2000 EUR. That's good news ! =20 > I'll start to see next week if we can find more. >=20 > Couldn't we start also a contributions/supports/donations page ? I've added one here: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceSponsors --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 10:55:49 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:55:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> Message-ID: <3C68F4B5.65B285DA@lemburg.com> Marc Poinot wrote: > > How can I invite speakers ? > > I have some contacts, at least with 3 speakers for papers. But I want > to invite some US speakers and I wonder if some of you has an idea ? > Or a piece of idea ? Or a beginning of a piece of a bit of a thought ? > > Plane ticket, hotel ? I suppose this depends solely on the budget we have available. Can't spend more money than we have ;-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Juergen Hermann" Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:55:49 +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >Can't spend more money than we have ;-) You're obviously not part of the fun generation! ;) Ciao, J=FCrgen -- J=FCrgen Hermann, Developer (jhe@webde-ag.de) WEB.DE AG, http://webde-ag.de/ From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 11:05:20 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 12:05:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C68F6F0.F1A69CAD@lemburg.com> Tim Couper wrote: > [on the "Python in Business" track] > > Maybe we should > call the session "My mind's made up; don't confuse me > with the facts" ... The fact that we have such a hard time finding the right wording suggests to me that we need a short description for each track title which gets mentioned right alongside with the title itself. Feel free to edit the track page accordingly: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks > Anyway, looking at practicalities, if this is where we > want to go, I wonder if we could have a series of > 10-15 minute talks, say for an afternoon, asking > presenters to focus on the issues which enabled them > to succeed in introducing, or reinforcing the use of, > Python in their organisation, and can follow it with a > BOF for those who'd like to develop or promote any > ideas further. I suppose that's for the track chairman to decide. In general, I think it's a good concept. Ok, back to some real work now... :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From seb@jamkit.com Tue Feb 12 11:46:41 2002 From: seb@jamkit.com (seb bacon) Date: 12 Feb 2002 11:46:41 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1013514406.1884.18.camel@bucharin> On Tue, 2002-02-12 at 08:54, Tim Couper wrote: > "Suits". While it's unlikely that members of this > species will appear at a Python conference (it being > perceived as a techy conference), what's probably > wanted is a clear presentation of the arguments and > resources that can be used/available to win hearts and > minds of such persons. I think you are correct that it will be mostly techy: I tried to whip up some excitement with my colleagues yesterday, but there was a distinct lack of interest because they suspected it would be a 'geekfest'. (Honestly, I don't know what's wrong with some people ;-) However, it is important to understand the composition of the business community. I think an emphasis on 'suits' (Dilbertesque business managers?) gives prominence to large companies at the cost of small to medium sized businesses (SMEs), which after all comprise the vast majority of businesses (more than 90% in the UK, AFAIK). In such companies, the distinction between Techy and Suit is not so strong. Certainly at my company we all wear several hats. WRT Zope in particular, I am sure that there are many SMEs who have *already* based their offering largely or exclusively on Zope and python. For people like this, the decision has already been made, and there's a lot more to talk about: how to get python/zope past *clients*, how to make OSS work in a commercial context, etc. In summary, I would persoanlly be less interested in 'getting python past the suits' and more interested in 'making a python business work'. However, I may be in a minority? seb From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 12:13:24 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 13:13:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> <1013514406.1884.18.camel@bucharin> Message-ID: <3C6906E4.2115998A@lemburg.com> seb bacon wrote: > > In summary, I would persoanlly be less interested in 'getting python > past the suits' and more interested in 'making a python business work'. > However, I may be in a minority? Not at all. The track should cover both aspects: * getting Python accepted in projects * building business models around Python That's where the motivation for the track came from for me at least, since eGenix.com is busy in both fields. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tim@2wave.net Tue Feb 12 14:26:03 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 14:26:03 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C6906E4.2115998A@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212142603.23605.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> --- "M.-A. Lemburg" wrote: > seb bacon wrote: > > > > In summary, I would persoanlly be less interested > in 'getting python > > past the suits' and more interested in 'making a > python business work'. > > However, I may be in a minority? > > Not at all. > > The track should cover both aspects: > * getting Python accepted in projects > * building business models around Python I concur completely. And I think the Lightning talk/BOF model will permit those interested only in one of the aspects to feel included. > > That's where the motivation for the track came from > for me at > least, since eGenix.com is busy in both fields. > is this subtle advertising on the mailing list? :-) Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From xavier@defrang.com Tue Feb 12 14:39:17 2002 From: xavier@defrang.com (Xavier Defrang) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 15:39:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics Message-ID: <3C692915.5B8C2D9A@defrang.com> Tim Couper wrote: > > The track should cover both aspects: > > * getting Python accepted in projects With the increasing importance of Java and its frameworks in large distributed projects, it would be interresting to talk about Jython and the possibilities of extension, scripting and prototyping offered by this implementation. My 2 eurocents... X. ----- blogging & stuff, daily updates >> http://defrang.com From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 12 15:04:59 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 16:04:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics References: <20020212142603.23605.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <3C692F1B.3174B89C@lemburg.com> Tim Couper wrote: > > > The track should cover both aspects: > > * getting Python accepted in projects > > * building business models around Python > > I concur completely. And I think the Lightning > talk/BOF model will permit those interested only in > one of the aspects to feel included. Right. > > > > That's where the motivation for the track came from > > for me at > > least, since eGenix.com is busy in both fields. > > > is this subtle advertising on the mailing list? :-) Not really... I only have to convince myself that going to the conference and spending time on organizing it pays off. It did at the Bordeaux Conference last year and hope that it does again at EuroPython 2002. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lozinski@openstepnews.com Tue Feb 12 17:27:02 2002 From: lozinski@openstepnews.com (Christopher Lozinski) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:27:02 -0800 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Conference References: Message-ID: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> I hope that there will be space for exhibitors. I run python.jobmart.com, and exhibited at the Python10 conference, and I hope that it will be possible to exhibit at the EuroPython Conference. Regards Christopher Lozinski lozinski@jobmart.com From someone@arbitrary.org Tue Feb 12 17:35:37 2002 From: someone@arbitrary.org (Joseph Santaniello) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 09:35:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020212085459.76941.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 at 08:54, Tim Couper wrote: > OK. So we're agreed broadly about the scope. However, > we do need to get the right topic title, 'cos if we're > confused, it'll be 10x worse for attendees! Right! So what do we call it? > > "Suits". While it's unlikely that members of this > species will appear at a Python conference (it being > perceived as a techy conference), what's probably Hey, I'm coming! ;-) But seriously, is it being percieved as a techy conference? I'm not saying that's a good or a bad thing, but I guess we should have a good idea of the demographic of the expected group. > wanted is a clear presentation of the arguments and > resources that can be used/available to win hearts and > minds of such persons. This is one of the key thoughts > behind the Python and Business track (perhaps > "Business" is misleading). With that as a goal, I > think we need case studies based on "this is the > organisation and its mindset, here's what we did and > here's how we changed it (or failed to change it and > why)". Clearly this is applicable to anyone who's > trying to use python in their work - either in the > commercial or scientific domains. I'm unsure how much > interest/overlap there is between these 2 domains, > insofar as the "suit" problems being addressed overlap > - although one does need arguments for both managerial > "Suits" and technical "Prima Donnas". Maybe we should > call the session "My mind's made up; don't confuse me > with the facts" ... > > Anyway, looking at practicalities, if this is where we > want to go, I wonder if we could have a series of > 10-15 minute talks, say for an afternoon, asking > presenters to focus on the issues which enabled them > to succeed in introducing, or reinforcing the use of, > Python in their organisation, and can follow it with a > BOF for those who'd like to develop or promote any > ideas further. I think that's a good approach. Several 15 minute presentations would probably be more effective than one long presentation. Then as you say a BOF since this issue is probably well suited to free-form discussions. Add my 2 cents (or 2.2742 eurocents...) to that sentiment. Joseph PS: Actually some Monty-Python-esque tounge-in-cheek title like "My mind's made up; don't confuse me with the facts" if we get it just right may do a better job of conveying what we are trying to say than some potentially confusing "positive" title. > > Just my 2 (euro)cents > > Tim > > > --- Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > > On Mon, 11 Feb 2002 at 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > > > Joseph Santaniello wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello All, > > > > > > > > Perhaps 'Python in The Real World' is just too > > general a topic. Maybe > > > > something like 'Python for solving Real World > > Problems' which has > > > > scientific issues, technical discussions, etc, > > and examples of real world > > > > solutions that have been implemented in Python, > > and another track that > > > > focuses on the more non-technical, or less > > specific aspects of Python in > > > > practice. Things like all the business, > > cultural, and development model > > > > stuff. > > > > > > Nothing against scientific applications, but what > > we Tim and I > > > originally had in mind was a session where we > > could discuss > > > business models around Python, strategies for > > convincing > > > decision makers about the values of using Python > > in projects, > > > total cost of ownership w/r to Python and Python > > applications, > > > etc. > > > > > > In that sense "the Real World" meant: Python in > > business > > > environments. > > > > > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > > > > > * Python in Business > > > * Python in Science > > > > > > By Python in Business do you mean using Python to > > solve business problems > > (figuring out finance charges or something) or the > > business of using > > Python and getting it to be accepted, etc. > > > > If we think of it as how Python can be used to > > figure out business > > problems, it is quite similar to scientific problems > > (or any other for > > that matter) and I think perhaps it would be > > suitable to have a track > > filled with all sorts of "real world" applications > > of Python, be they > > business, scientific, or whatever. > > > > But I do agree that there should be a track > > specifically for the "suits" > > which discusses among other things the > > non-programming specific aspects of > > Python. Things like it's overall benefits, how it > > works well as a > > modelling language, how it is quick to develop with, > > how it's easy to > > read and thus maintanable, and things about how to > > convince > > non-technical sceptics that is is a viable > > alternative to other more > > well-know technologies, etc. > > > > I think we are sort of saying the same thing. > > > > Joseph > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Everything you'll ever need on one web page > from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts > http://uk.my.yahoo.com > -- Joseph Santaniello http://www.arbitrary.org/ F8D7 FA00 845C DCAD 1759 57F3 CFE0 E57C CD94 10F8 -- From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 18:53:05 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 19:53:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Extra-curricular activities? In-Reply-To: <3C68E512.22C8FB73@lemburg.com> References: <3C683181.42698F80@lemburg.com> <20020211233453.GB28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E512.22C8FB73@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212185305.GA31958@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > In summary, we'll need > > * BOFs (small get-together-like discussion rounds with a > BOF manager; these should be planned shortly before the conference), > > and > > * Lightning Talks (very short presentations on various subjects, > to be announced at the conference), > Since we can't really plan them now, I suggest to just integrate > these into the time table somewhere. I've put them on a wiki page. :) > I'm not sure whether we can start creating a time table just yet, > though :-) I think it's too early. First we need to hunt for people who are willing to give a talk, or are willing to organize a special topic area. Then once we've got a list of talks, we can organize a time table and tracks around it. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:11:48 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:11:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212191148.GB31958@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > So perhaps we need two tracks: > > > > * Python in Business > > * Python in Science > > As Python is largely used in science, I think it would be good to provide > a gathering place for all those who use it that way. As someone already > proposed, I think Konrad Hinsen (hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr) would be a nice > person to organize the track. I've just sent a mail to Konrad. > If he doesn't want to, I am willing to do it, but be aware that Logilab > offers professional training for Python+Science. That would help me to set > up the track as we already have many contacts, but I wouldn't want people > to think that I am doing it only out of interest. Well, one reason we have conferences is to gain more business, so that isn't a big problem. > One solution would be for both of us to organize it together. Sure, get together with him and try to work something out. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:14:56 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:14:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: <20020211234326.GD28241@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020212191456.GC31958@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > [I wrote:] > > Once you stop to think about it, it's amazing how much cool Python > > development actually happens right here in Europe. > > this is very true and needs to be emphasized. Perhaps we need some cheerleading keynote about Python in Europe.. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:16:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:16:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212191631.GD31958@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: [free versus open debate] > I would suggest we delay such wars until after the conference... During the conference! We could divide ourselves into two teams and have a battle friday afternoon! :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:23:54 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:23:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C68E6CC.D5D2B0F8@lemburg.com> References: <20020211153809.A74692@math.jussieu.fr> <20020211164755.D74692@math.jussieu.fr> <3C67EC1A.E8FB1A26@lemburg.com> <20020211235241.GF28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E6CC.D5D2B0F8@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212192354.GF31958@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > If this is a political issue I for one am quite willing to drop > > the 'and Zope' from the title, however. > > I don't have an issue with it, but the current press release > text puts more emphasis on Zope than on Python and that's > not what I had expected from the first *Python* conference > in Europe (after many many years). I've tried hard to de-empathize Zope from the press release, but I failed. :) > The wiki has the current version and we put a deadline on the text: > next friday. After that we'll need up-to-date translations and can > then start pushing the release out the door. We seem to have two english versions; one on the main page and one in a sub page. Confusing. I presume the one on the main press release page is the real one.. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:25:11 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:25:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <3C68E817.E5992511@lemburg.com> References: <20020211092250.8628.qmail@web14505.mail.yahoo.com> <1013437423.3c67d3ef3bba4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C67E5CC.BC9ABC5F@lemburg.com> <20020211235948.GH28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E817.E5992511@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212192511.GG31958@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Good idea... (how do you add pages to a wiki ?) MultiCapitalize a word. Then that'll get a question mark. Click on that, edit the page, and you've got a new page. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:27:25 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:27:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <3C68E959.EF00394E@lemburg.com> References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212000503.GI28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E959.EF00394E@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020212192725.GH31958@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: [snip stuff on conference categories, sounds good] > Of course, before determining the amounts, we'll need to > figure out a budget for the event. Does anybody here have > experience with conference budgets ? Not me. We did do some very preliminary calculations at the Belgium meeting in december. Can perhaps Denis or whomever has the note post all the stuff we created then into the wiki? Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:30:37 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:30:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceOrganizers page added In-Reply-To: <1013498389.3c68c21553e49@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013498389.3c68c21553e49@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020212193037.GI31958@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > as I'm probably not the only one getting increasingly confused > about the matter, I added a ConferenceOrganizers page to the > Wiki with three initial names on it that were among the latest > in my mailbox: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceOrganizers > > I hope, everybody will write a concise paragraph sooner or > later about his or her role(s) during that conference prepara- > tion. And I hope this overview will be useful for all others, but > also for these people themselves! ;-) That's a good idea. I wrote a little paragraph (incomplete) for Denis, and one for me as well. Also incomplete, as I'm not entirely sure what my official role is. I did sort of kick everything into motion.. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:32:53 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:32:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212193253.GJ31958@vet.uu.nl> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > Right. But I think the names of people to contact should be decided by > the conference commitee (of which, as I stated in Charleroi in december, > I'm willing to take part) beforehand. We had a preliminary list of who did what in the notes then. We really need to move those notes into the wiki. I know you had notes of your own, could you move those into the wiki as well? And Denis had notes on his computer.. I forget what I was in the notes. I was in the general committee, and I believe I volunteered for the group doing the program. We need to semi-formalize who gets to make decisions about money pretty soon, though. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 12 19:20:58 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:20:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020212192058.GE31958@vet.uu.nl> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > Me too. Hence "free and open source software". What line in the press release are we talking about? Regards, Martijn From Tom Deprez" Blushing... Embarassing... What an amatuer I am.... I've having amnesia.... Sorry, all just to say that I forgot my own password of the europython site already... so, I'll wait untill a good person sends me a new dummy entry... Tom. From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 22:30:32 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:30:32 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ProgrammingContest Message-ID: Following on my proposal, I have created a page http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ProgrammingContest we still need for that : 1/ a email address programming-contest@europython.org 2/ prizes (cash, Monty Python videotapes and books) 3/ judges 4/ participants As usual, any suggestion, comment , help ... is welcome Best regards Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 12 22:33:45 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:33:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsoring In-Reply-To: <20020212192725.GH31958@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013417687.3c6786d716de4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020211113300.G49147@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212000503.GI28241@vet.uu.nl> <3C68E959.EF00394E@lemburg.com> <20020212192725.GH31958@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020212233345.A5896@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 08:27:25PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > > Not me. We did do some very preliminary calculations at the > Belgium meeting in december. Can perhaps Denis or whomever has the > note post all the stuff we created then into the wiki? I uploaded the notes in the wiki http://www.europython.org/wiki/DecemberPreMeeting It was not structured-text, so the presentation is not very good. I don't feel like editing it now... :-) Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 22:34:21 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:34:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <20020212191148.GB31958@vet.uu.nl> References: <3C68181A.C6916CC8@lemburg.com> <20020212191148.GB31958@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 20:11, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > > If he doesn't want to, I am willing to do it, but be aware that Logil= ab > > offers professional training for Python+Science. That would help me t= o > > set up the track as we already have many contacts, but I wouldn't wan= t > > people to think that I am doing it only out of interest. > > Well, one reason we have conferences is to gain more business, so that > isn't a big problem. =2E.. and generate interest in Python and Zope, for example in schools an= d any=20 other business. I fully agree with Martijn comment Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 22:39:46 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:39:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: Le Mardi 12 F=E9vrier 2002 10:16, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit : To begin with, Could the people on this list suggest to any person who could be interest= ed=20 to prepare something to submit to the request for paper we shall send ver= y=20 soon ? If people don not come spontaneously, at least we will have something alr= eady=20 very interesting ... even if a little pushed. Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selecti= on=20 commitee ? As stated by Stefane, I think the basic "conference commitee" was propos= ed=20 in Charleroi in December. Any other proposal / suggestion is welcome thou= gh. Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 22:44:55 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 23:44:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python tracks/topics In-Reply-To: <3C692F1B.3174B89C@lemburg.com> References: <20020212142603.23605.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com> <3C692F1B.3174B89C@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > > > The track should cover both aspects: > > > * getting Python accepted in projects > > > * building business models around Python > > > > I concur completely. And I think the Lightning > > talk/BOF model will permit those interested only in > > one of the aspects to feel included. I do think this too. In my position, I publish request for proposals.=20 What I want is : answer from commercial companies when I ask for=20 developpement and support.=20 My purpose with the "business track" (or "python for suits" or anything) = is=20 to let the people who may be influential in the decisions (often they are= =20 nearly or old techies) that Python/Zope can save their day. ... and is a very good solution Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 23:13:15 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:13:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: Sorry MAL. I do not want this point to become a difference between us. > > > It is understood by me that free software and open source software = are > > > basically two different ways to name the same kind of software, but > > > that people strongly disagree on the best word to use. This is also the way for me, but only that I recently realised that, in m= any=20 situation, it just depends on the public. For me free software relates to values and open source to pragmatism.=20 AS the first is more important for me than the latter, I tend more and mo= re=20 to speak about free software, but I do use the other word with people who= =20 have other evaluation (especially in a business environement) > > I would suggest we delay such wars until after the conference... OK I won't come with the point anymore. > Me too. Hence "free and open source software". Agree. THis formulation if good for me. Regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From Tom Deprez" <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <01f801c1b41a$24462250$358d84d5@skullsplitter> As I told before to Martijn, I'm willing to help on the paper selection concerning Zope issues... Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicolas Pettiaux" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2002 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Invited speakers Le Mardi 12 Février 2002 10:16, Stefane Fermigier a écrit : To begin with, Could the people on this list suggest to any person who could be interested to prepare something to submit to the request for paper we shall send very soon ? If people don not come spontaneously, at least we will have something already very interesting ... even if a little pushed. Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selection commitee ? As stated by Stefane, I think the basic "conference commitee" was proposed in Charleroi in December. Any other proposal / suggestion is welcome though. Thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Pérou 29 B-1000 Brussels _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 12 23:41:10 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:41:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org Message-ID: Dear all, there is a line on www.python.org stating that there is the europyhton=20 conference an dlinking to the web site. Would someone quickly ack a nicer page to welcome the visitors ? It is a = bit=20 cheap righ now. Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <029001c1b41f$8917f8c0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> I'm trying to work on it, right now. The only problem is that I can't get the versions working... so now I'm going to work on a page and later on switch it to index_html Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicolas Pettiaux" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org Dear all, there is a line on www.python.org stating that there is the europyhton conference an dlinking to the web site. Would someone quickly ack a nicer page to welcome the visitors ? It is a bit cheap righ now. Thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Pérou 29 B-1000 Brussels _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 12 23:53:10 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:53:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <20020212193253.GJ31958@vet.uu.nl> References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212193253.GJ31958@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020213005310.B5896@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 12, 2002 at 08:32:53PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > We had a preliminary list of who did what in the notes then. We really > need to move those notes into the wiki. I know you had notes of your > own, could you move those into the wiki as well? And Denis had notes > on his computer.. http://www.europython.org/wiki/DecemberPreMeeting > I forget what I was in the notes. I was in the general committee, and I > believe I volunteered for the group doing the program. You did. :-) > We need to semi-formalize who gets to make decisions about money pretty > soon, though. General committee ? -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From tom.deprez@village.uunet.be Wed Feb 13 00:34:22 2002 From: tom.deprez@village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 01:34:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org References: <029001c1b41f$8917f8c0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <02ca01c1b426$2fbc21a0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> ok, did some small change, but this is really a dummy page. And it still looks cheap... I should make up the ZPT templates, before going further... sighh, I'm not that fond of ZPT, I'm more used to DTML...anyway I need to stop. I'll work on this further on thursday, since tomorrow I've other obligations. If other want to work on it, ... then be my guest! Regards, Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Deprez" To: ; Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:46 AM Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org I'm trying to work on it, right now. The only problem is that I can't get the versions working... so now I'm going to work on a page and later on switch it to index_html Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nicolas Pettiaux" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 12:41 AM Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org Dear all, there is a line on www.python.org stating that there is the europyhton conference an dlinking to the web site. Would someone quickly ack a nicer page to welcome the visitors ? It is a bit cheap righ now. Thanks, Nicolas -- Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du Pérou 29 B-1000 Brussels _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr Wed Feb 13 08:40:37 2002 From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 09:40:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] ProgrammingContest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ProgrammingContest Sorry to raise the issue of licensing once more, but I think the words you used are slightly confusing. * "we cannot accept entries that require commercial software or other software that is not provided as free software or under GPL." -> This seems to imply that GPLed software is not free software. * "The participants agree that their application free software, protected by the GPL licence." -> This is python we're talking about, and the GPL is not the default licence in the community, even if it is commonly used. I think imposing the GPL, rather than, for instance, the Python Licence, is an error. There's nothing about the maximium number of submission that an individual can make. Alexandre Fayolle -- LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL). From fermigier@clara1.tuxeon.com Wed Feb 13 09:05:15 2002 From: fermigier@clara1.tuxeon.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:05:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ProgrammingContest In-Reply-To: ; from Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr on Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 09:40:37AM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20020213100515.A19137@clara1.tuxeon.com> On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 09:40:37AM +0100, Alexandre Fayolle wrote: > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002, Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ProgrammingContest > > Sorry to raise the issue of licensing once more, but I think the words you > used are slightly confusing. > > * "we cannot accept entries that require commercial software or other > software that is not provided as free software or under GPL." > -> This seems to imply that GPLed software is not free software. > > * "The participants agree that their application free software, protected > by the GPL licence." > -> This is python we're talking about, and the GPL is not the default > licence in the community, even if it is commonly used. I think imposing > the GPL, rather than, for instance, the Python Licence, is an error. Right. Any license stamped as free software by the FSF and Open Source by the OSI should do. S. From all@123piano.com Wed Feb 13 09:25:25 2002 From: all@123piano.com (Philippe Jadin) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 10:25:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction Message-ID: <3C6A3105.8080906@123piano.com> Hello, As a responsible belgian citizen, I had to subscribe to this mailing list, so I did :) I'm a quite active zope developer/designer/wathever that means. I work mainly the freelance way, and I have quite some little success with this cool tool. So,in short, I can contribute to do some layouts for the europython website if it helps. I have a friend which is interested as well (he is a graphic designer, and we often work together on project. A little batleplan maybe ? : 1. define a sitemap 2. create a nice template 3. create some simple logic to have navbars, etc... (or all will be done with wiki? In this case, how is wiki "skinable"?) If you need a template, will it be dtml or zpt? Is there already a project for this? hth, Philippe Jadin 123piano.com 02/280.40.14 60, rue du cornet 1040 Etterbeek (Bruxelles) Belgique From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 10:16:04 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:16:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> Message-ID: <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> Christopher Lozinski wrote: > > I hope that there will be space for exhibitors. > > I run python.jobmart.com, and exhibited at the Python10 conference, and I hope that it > will be possible to exhibit at the EuroPython Conference. We will look into this. What kind of exhibit do you have in mind (a booth, just posters ?). FYI, I've create a preliminary info page at: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceExhibitors -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 10:33:37 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:33:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Updated press release Message-ID: <3C6A4101.5B9F5085@lemburg.com> I've updated the press release a bit and added a blurb about Jython. Please review. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Feb 13 11:16:15 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 12:16:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] ProgrammingContest In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Following on my proposal, I have created a page > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ProgrammingContest > > 3/ judges I think my friend Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr is a good candidate. Ask the PyXML and 4Suite folks ;-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Feb 13 12:04:06 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 13:04:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selection > commitee ? Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr and/or I would be interested. I would say the more the better, even for a small number of papers, as more reviewers means more feedback and more chances to improve the paper/talk before presenting it. Maybe ten to fifteen people ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 13:57:59 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 14:57:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: Message from Nicolas Pettiaux of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 00:13:15 +0100." References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I tried the formulation 'free and open source software' for a conference I organised. It bombed. Everybody thought I meant 'free/open source software, that ALSO COST NO MONEY'. After all, if I did not mean 'COST NO MONEY' then either free, or open source, would be enough. There are no easy answers here. I have personally moved to using Open Source exclusively, and let the unthinking RMS-acolytes hate me, but that may not be an option for you. Just to warn you that I tried it your way and it failed miserably. Laura Creighton From aleax@aleax.it Wed Feb 13 14:15:38 2002 From: aleax@aleax.it (Alex Martelli) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:15:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee Message-ID: "Nicolas Pettiaux" wrote: ... """ Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selection commitee ? """ I've just joined the list (having barely recovered from IPC10:-), but I'm available to referee/review papers if needed (assuming that doesn't create a conflict of interest with _submitting_ papers, right?). Alex From martin@v.loewis.de Wed Feb 13 14:37:29 2002 From: martin@v.loewis.de (Martin v. Loewis) Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:37:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Alex Martelli writes: > I've just joined the list (having barely recovered from IPC10:-), but I'm > available to referee/review papers if needed (assuming that doesn't > create a conflict of interest with _submitting_ papers, right?). Certainly not; it was the same on IPC. Regards, Martin From aleax@aleax.it Wed Feb 13 14:46:54 2002 From: aleax@aleax.it (Alex Martelli) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 15:46:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wednesday 13 February 2002 03:37 pm, Martin v. Loewis wrote: > Alex Martelli writes: > > I've just joined the list (having barely recovered from IPC10:-), but I'm > > available to referee/review papers if needed (assuming that doesn't > > create a conflict of interest with _submitting_ papers, right?). > > Certainly not; it was the same on IPC. So it was, just double-checking because my selfish interest to present at EP is even higher than my impulse to help EP's papers' quality:-). Besides, "it never hurts to state one's assumptions out loud"... Alex From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:03:33 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:03:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020213150333.GA4101@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Le Mardi 12 F?vrier 2002 10:16, Stefane Fermigier a ?crit : > > To begin with, > > Could the people on this list suggest to any person who could be interested > to prepare something to submit to the request for paper we shall send very > soon ? Parse error. Could you rephrase this? I don't understand. :) > If people don not come spontaneously, at least we will have something already > very interesting ... even if a little pushed. People have already contacted me spontaneously, and I've noticed a very tiny amount of pushing can also work wonders. There's a huge amount of people who could do very interesting presentations that I could mail. > Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selection > commitee ? I was on the program commitee already, as far as I was aware. Is this the same as the paper selection commitee? Anyway, I'm volunteering to keep track of all the program/paper issues, though I hope I won't be the only one. I'd like to start appointing specific people as part of specific subgroups soon. [note that I'm assuming a leadership role here and I won't want to ursurp anything, so people should speak up if they object] > As stated by Stefane, I think the basic "conference commitee" was proposed > in Charleroi in December. Any other proposal / suggestion is welcome though. Of course we can still shuffle the main commitee and add people who are active/interested in helping. We should treat this as an open source project in the sense that whoever takes responsibility can get responsibility. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:09:37 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:09:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213150937.GB4101@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > there is a line on www.python.org stating that there is the europyhton > conference an dlinking to the web site. That's because I asked Guido to add a line on that in my boundless enthusiasm. I should've waited a bit until we had a nicer page.. > Would someone quickly ack a nicer page to welcome the visitors ? It is a bit > cheap righ now. Tom seems to have taken care of the worst bits of my 'web design' already. Thanks Tom! Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:10:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:10:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Invited speakers In-Reply-To: <20020213005310.B5896@carolo.net> References: <3C68D89D.FB37A56F@onera.fr> <20020212095941.A63572@math.jussieu.fr> <3C68DA56.F73C62DC@onera.fr> <20020212101625.B63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212193253.GJ31958@vet.uu.nl> <20020213005310.B5896@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020213151028.GC4101@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > > We need to semi-formalize who gets to make decisions about money pretty > > soon, though. > > General committee ? That makes sense. Now we need to formalize who's in there. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:26:27 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:26:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython on python.org In-Reply-To: <02ca01c1b426$2fbc21a0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> References: <029001c1b41f$8917f8c0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> <02ca01c1b426$2fbc21a0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020213152627.GD4101@vet.uu.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > ok, did some small change, but this is really a dummy page. And it still > looks cheap... > > I should make up the ZPT templates, before going further... sighh, I'm not > that fond of ZPT, I'm more used to DTML...anyway I need to stop. It looks a whole lot better already. And DTML is fine with me, if you like it better. Let's not any technical roadblocks stop us! > I'll work on this further on thursday, since tomorrow I've other > obligations. > If other want to work on it, ... then be my guest! Okay, would everybody who wants to be in the web team reply in this thread? This is the team that does web design and infrastructure. Tom is in there already, and Ivo van der Wijk at Amaze is in it also defacto, as he manages that server. I can help with some stuff (forms, some python scripts) if necessary, but don't ask me to do HTML. :) Note that the web team won't have to worry about the content; that'll be taken care of by other groups (or all of us, through the wiki). I'd just like to get a list of people we can talk to concerning the website. I'll add something to the wiki. Hm, see followup mail about teams I'll be sending. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:31:57 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:31:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] organizing 'teams' Message-ID: <20020213153157.GE4101@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, I've added a page to the wiki here: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTeams and I've added my own name to the teams I seem to be in. Please do add your name and email address to the appropriate teams where you think you can help most. I've only added my own name to anything. :) Note that the list of teams isn't complete. Under ProgramCommittee way may need sub pages for the particular parts of the program. This way we know who to take to to get what accomplished. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:35:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:35:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction In-Reply-To: <3C6A3105.8080906@123piano.com> References: <3C6A3105.8080906@123piano.com> Message-ID: <20020213153528.GF4101@vet.uu.nl> Philippe Jadin wrote: [snip] > So,in short, I can contribute to do some layouts for the europython > website if it helps. I have a friend which is interested as well (he is > a graphic designer, and we often work together on project. Okay, please add yourself and info on what you can do to this wiki page (and add your friend too :): http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/WebTeam and mail me or Tom Deprez to get a Zope login. Note that soon I won't be the person to mail for a Zope login, I'm only facilitating the web team, but everybody else can be in charge and do the real work. :) Thanks for your help! Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:37:55 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:37:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020213153755.GG4101@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: [snip more suggestions on free/open source] Hey Laura! Glad to see you here. Regards, Martijn From tismer@tismer.com Wed Feb 13 15:48:41 2002 From: tismer@tismer.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:48:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? Message-ID: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> Hi Europythoneers, I'm at the moment very busy to get my completely new Stackless implementation to fly. I would like to give a talk at Europython. It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure there will be a presentation. Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Kaunstr. 26 : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14163 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ PGP Fingerprint E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15 D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF where do you want to jump today? http://www.stackless.com/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 15:55:03 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:55:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Free/Open source issue Message-ID: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, The free versus open source issue keeps cropping up. I'd like to soon make a decision on this (speaking for the General Committee :) so we can get rid of the distraction once and for all. I've however been unable to find the phrase where some people want to say 'free/open source' and others don't. Which document are we talking about and which line? We want to avoid offending too many people (but I don't particularly care about offending RMS or ESR :), and as Laura suggested, avoid the confusion that may arise from people who think free/open source means 'not useful in a real business situation' and will then automatically stay away before we even get a chance at evangelizing them about this. While most of us have a background of supporting free and/or open source software, I'd also like to avoid giving the impression we restrict all this to such supporters only. I'd like this conference to welcome everybody that is interested in Zope and Python, even if they're, say, Microsoft themselves. Those who want to evangelize will then get the opportunity to actually preach to the non-converted, so that's beneficial to everybody. :) I myself use both vi and emacs. Analogously, I can pose as an open source pragmatist and as a free software advocate equally. :) Note: let's not start a whole debate about this issue, as that's what I'm trying to avoid. I'm just asking for input on what lines in which documents people are having debates about, so that we can quickly reach a conclusion. If you feel like debating please send me private mail and don't cc to the list. :) Regards, Martijn From Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr Wed Feb 13 15:56:53 2002 From: Alexandre.Fayolle@logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:56:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? In-Reply-To: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Christian Tismer wrote: > I would like to give a talk at Europython. > It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure > there will be a presentation. +1 ;o) > Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? There is interest, at least on my side. A presentation is required, and a paper would be welcome too. Alexandre Fayolle -- LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org Narval, the first software agent available as free software (GPL). From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 15:54:13 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:54:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <20020212112401.B31910@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6A8C25.D12A15D4@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I tried the formulation 'free and open source software' for a conference > I organised. It bombed. Everybody thought I meant 'free/open source > software, that ALSO COST NO MONEY'. After all, if I did not mean > 'COST NO MONEY' then either free, or open source, would be enough. > > There are no easy answers here. I have personally moved to using > Open Source exclusively, and let the unthinking RMS-acolytes hate me, > but that may not be an option for you. > > Just to warn you that I tried it your way and it failed miserably. Last I looked there was no mention of "free" anywhere in the press release. Let's leave this discussion now and move on... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 16:04:59 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:04:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] contest clarifications Message-ID: <200202131604.g1DG4x9r031574@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Can people enter things they have been writing for years? Will you fly people in from outside of Europe? If so I am going to tell Prabhu to enter MayaVi http://mayavi.sourceforge.net/index.html He is an Indian phd student, who cannot afford flying to Europe when he feels like it. Of course its the scientific python conference at Lawrence Livermore that somebody should make sure that he can attend .... Just for clarification .... Laura From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 16:17:30 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:17:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213161730.GA4989@vet.uu.nl> Alex Martelli wrote: > On Wednesday 13 February 2002 03:37 pm, Martin v. Loewis wrote: > > Alex Martelli writes: > > > I've just joined the list (having barely recovered from IPC10:-), but I'm > > > available to referee/review papers if needed (assuming that doesn't > > > create a conflict of interest with _submitting_ papers, right?). > > > > Certainly not; it was the same on IPC. > > So it was, just double-checking because my selfish interest to present > at EP is even higher than my impulse to help EP's papers' quality:-). > Besides, "it never hurts to state one's assumptions out loud"... Welcome Alex. Good that you double checked, as we didn't have a policy for that yet, but I'll add one to the wiki (http://www.europython.org/wiki) based on this. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 16:18:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:18:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213161804.GB4989@vet.uu.nl> Alex Martelli wrote: > On Wednesday 13 February 2002 03:37 pm, Martin v. Loewis wrote: > > Alex Martelli writes: > > > I've just joined the list (having barely recovered from IPC10:-), but I'm > > > available to referee/review papers if needed (assuming that doesn't > > > create a conflict of interest with _submitting_ papers, right?). > > > > Certainly not; it was the same on IPC. > > So it was, just double-checking because my selfish interest to present > at EP is even higher than my impulse to help EP's papers' quality:-). > Besides, "it never hurts to state one's assumptions out loud"... Oh, and please add yourself to the teams you think you can contribute to: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTeams Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 16:22:43 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:22:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? In-Reply-To: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> Message-ID: <20020213162243.GC4989@vet.uu.nl> Christian Tismer wrote: > I'm at the moment very busy to get my completely new > Stackless implementation to fly. > I would like to give a talk at Europython. > It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure > there will be a presentation. > > Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? YES there is interest. I think you're so far free to pick your own shape, though we will likely evolve more ideas about this as things develop. What kind of shape would you prefer? Thanks! Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 16:39:38 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 17:39:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the budget issue Message-ID: <20020213163938.GA5429@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, All kinds of ideas are cropping up at the moment involving things that cost actual money. :) As of yet, EuroPython has not much of a budget, so flying over people is currently beyond our means. This may change with sponsorship and conference fees, but the picture right now on how much we could spend if anything at all is completely murky. We have the conference venue (though apparently not entirely free anymore, as we thought before), and we've got a lot of volunteer activity, so we're not doing too badly even without it. Still, looks like we'd have to start working the budget ASAP. Any volunteers? :) Regards, Martijn From mwh@python.net Wed Feb 13 16:54:52 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:54:52 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? In-Reply-To: Christian Tismer's message of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 16:48:41 +0100" References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> Message-ID: <2mk7thpbj7.fsf@starship.python.net> Christian Tismer writes: > Hi Europythoneers, > > I'm at the moment very busy to get my completely new > Stackless implementation to fly. > I would like to give a talk at Europython. > It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure > there will be a presentation. > > Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? Yes! Sheesh, ask a silly question... Cheers, M. -- If I had wanted your website to make noise I would have licked my finger and rubbed it across the monitor. -- signature of "istartedi" on slashdot.org From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 13 18:08:15 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:08:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi folks, I'm a newbee in Python/ZOPE and also to this list. I am a supervisor/coach with a strong software developer and IT consultant background. I help neerds and projects getting along with irritations like "management", "project plans", "mile stones", "team leaders" and "emotional conflicts". I would be happy to talk to the python/zope crowd, but's truly not "tekki" talk. More like "project and process organisation with ZOPE in big (> 50 people) software development projects", "what does it mean to be a happy programmer" or other emotional stuff :-) Since I'm very greatful to the open/free (-whatever-it-means ;-))- source community I'm willing to "support" your budget as a sponsor. I would like to help out with direct support, but my agenda is full-full-full so I don't have any time left. Who's responsible for sponsoring? Regards, Andrew From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 18:07:03 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:07:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 11:16:04 +0100." <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> AB Strakt wants exhibition space. What do we do now? Wikis are great for many things but knowing when 'I can stop searching now, 'cause its not there' is not one of them. Unless one of you fine folk have already solved this one .... Laura From tismer@tismer.com Wed Feb 13 18:19:18 2002 From: tismer@tismer.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:19:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> <20020213162243.GC4989@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6AAE26.5010901@tismer.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > Christian Tismer wrote: > >>I'm at the moment very busy to get my completely new >>Stackless implementation to fly. >>I would like to give a talk at Europython. >>It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure >>there will be a presentation. >> >>Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? >> > > YES there is interest. I think you're so far free to pick your own > shape, though we will likely evolve more ideas about this as things > develop. > > What kind of shape would you prefer? Hmm, I'm quite undecided. I'd like to explain how this new version works, in contrast to the old one (just short). One of the biggest advantages of this new thing is that it is really explainable, since it is so simple and orthogonal to Python's innards. At the same time, I'd want to present it in an interactive session, show some coroutines talking to each others, let uthreads run in parallel, and show that this works even from C extension code. Maybe there could be a discussion like at Spam 9, maybe with Guido if he likes to. You know that I'm playing asembly tricks. But there is also something funny, which we found out when I visited Jean_Claude Wippler last week: On a couple of platforms, it is possible to play tricks with setjmp/longjmp and alloca, to reduce the stack and expand it again. This is of couse a bit slower than assembly, but it is quite portable and gives access to Stackless quite quickly (not on Spark, of course:) I could imagine that this assembly-less version might become a compiler option for Standard Python? ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Kaunstr. 26 : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14163 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ PGP Fingerprint E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15 D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF where do you want to jump today? http://www.stackless.com/ From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 18:24:39 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:24:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6AAF67.29940112@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > AB Strakt wants exhibition space. What do we do now? Wikis are great > for many things but knowing when 'I can stop searching now, 'cause its > not there' is not one of them. Unless one of you fine folk have > already solved this one .... http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceExhibitors I suggest we add all interested companies to that page so we can contact them later on... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Feb 13 18:31:39 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:31:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Who's responsible for sponsoring? I added your name to http://www.europython.org/wiki/ConferenceSponsors -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 18:31:10 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:31:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020213183110.GA6281@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > AB Strakt wants exhibition space. What do we do now? Wikis are great > for many things but knowing when 'I can stop searching now, 'cause its > not there' is not one of them. Unless one of you fine folk have > already solved this one .... We haven't solved it, but we could use your help: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceExhibitors (think you might've found it, as I see your name on it). We need an ExhibitionTeam, so I've added one. Add your name to it if you want to help puzzle this out. Denis Frere is our expert on the conference grounds, so perhaps he should pop in and say something about the possibilities. http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ExhibitionTeam Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 18:36:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:36:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213183628.GB6281@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: [snip] > I would be happy to talk to the python/zope crowd, but's truly > not "tekki" talk. More like "project and process organisation with ZOPE in > big (> 50 people) software development projects", "what does it mean to be a > happy programmer" or other emotional stuff :-) Excellent! The Python for Suits/Python in the real world people (hint to those people: nmake a team or something :) will hopefully get back to you on this. There is seems to be a sizable contingent of people interested in these issues. > Since I'm very greatful to the open/free (-whatever-it-means ;-))- source > community I'm willing to "support" your budget as a sponsor. We've (you? someone? it's a wiki ;) added you to our list and will get back to you on that too. > Who's responsible for sponsoring? Good question. :) I'm currently trying to get that part of things in a better shape. But I really need help on this from someone with more experience on that (hint to any reader of the list). Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 18:44:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:44:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? In-Reply-To: <3C6AAE26.5010901@tismer.com> References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> <20020213162243.GC4989@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AAE26.5010901@tismer.com> Message-ID: <20020213184404.GC6281@vet.uu.nl> Christian Tismer wrote: [snip form and shape of the talk] > Hmm, I'm quite undecided. I'd like to explain how this new > version works, in contrast to the old one (just short). > One of the biggest advantages of this new thing is that > it is really explainable, since it is so simple and orthogonal > to Python's innards. > At the same time, I'd want to present it in an interactive > session, show some coroutines talking to each others, let > uthreads run in parallel, and show that this works even > from C extension code. > Maybe there could be a discussion like at Spam 9, maybe > with Guido if he likes to. Interactive session it should be then. We need to work out some infrastructure for this type of thing. Though a laptop with overhead projector will already get us a long way. Added a note to the wiki. > You know that I'm playing asembly tricks. > But there is also something funny, which we found out when > I visited Jean_Claude Wippler last week: Someone else else we really need to contact. :) [snip interesting techie stuff] Regards, Martijn From js@aixtraware.de Wed Feb 13 18:46:53 2002 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:46:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the budget issue In-Reply-To: <20020213163938.GA5429@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020213163938.GA5429@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <265760000.1013626013@js> Hi Martijn, I am back from a short holiday, and can offer my and EuroZopes volunteering = in this. --On Mittwoch, Februar 13, 2002 17:39:38 +0100 Martijn Faassen=20 wrote: > Hi there, > > All kinds of ideas are cropping up at the moment involving things that > cost actual money. :) As of yet, EuroPython has not much of a budget, > so flying over people is currently beyond our means. > > This may change with sponsorship and conference fees, but the picture > right now on how much we could spend if anything at all is completely > murky. We have the conference venue (though apparently not entirely free > anymore, as we thought before), and we've got a lot of volunteer > activity, so we're not doing too badly even without it. Still, looks like > we'd have to start working the budget ASAP. Any volunteers? :) > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen H=FCsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 Keyserver: http://germany.keyserver.net/en/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 13 18:46:51 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:46:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanx, I corrected the name to the name of my company. I can assure you at least a standard sponsoring, maybe premium (I've to check my bank account ;-) Andrew -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Nicolas Chauvat [mailto:Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2002 19:32 An: Andrew Smart Cc: europython@python.org Betreff: Re: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget > Who's responsible for sponsoring? I added your name to http://www.europython.org/wiki/ConferenceSponsors -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 18:51:52 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:51:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Free/Open source issue References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Note: let's not start a whole debate about this issue, as that's what > I'm trying to avoid. I'm just asking for input on what lines in which > documents people are having debates about, so that we can quickly reach > a conclusion. If you feel like debating please send me private mail and > don't cc to the list. :) There are no such documents; the press release never contained a distinction between free and open source; it always just used open source and talked about where to get the source code from. The discussion started on the mailing list as proposal for an alternative press release opener. Please, let's end this discussion. There are so many more important things to organize... like e.g. whether we have Internet access at the site, whether there are enough coffee machines, projectors, track supervisors, etc. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tismer@tismer.com Wed Feb 13 18:55:09 2002 From: tismer@tismer.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 19:55:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> <20020213162243.GC4989@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AAE26.5010901@tismer.com> <20020213184404.GC6281@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6AB68D.6020908@tismer.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > Christian Tismer wrote: > [snip form and shape of the talk] > >>Hmm, I'm quite undecided. I'd like to explain how this new >>version works, in contrast to the old one (just short). >>One of the biggest advantages of this new thing is that >>it is really explainable, since it is so simple and orthogonal >>to Python's innards. >>At the same time, I'd want to present it in an interactive >>session, show some coroutines talking to each others, let >>uthreads run in parallel, and show that this works even >>from C extension code. >>Maybe there could be a discussion like at Spam 9, maybe >>with Guido if he likes to. >> > > Interactive session it should be then. We need to work out some > infrastructure for this type of thing. Though a laptop with overhead > projector will already get us a long way. Added a note to the wiki. > > >>You know that I'm playing asembly tricks. >>But there is also something funny, which we found out when >>I visited Jean_Claude Wippler last week: >> > > Someone else else we really need to contact. :) For sure. He has improved his Metakit quite much, and I wrote a C interface generator for static structured databases which makes it very easy to use MK with C. Well, not Python related. JC also wrote a proof of concept impl of stackless Tcl, and it really works (not growing the Stack). Well, again not Python. What he might want to show is the MK SQL interface that Gordon McMillan has written for MK? Anyway, try to get him out of his snale house. ciao - chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Kaunstr. 26 : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14163 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ PGP Fingerprint E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15 D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF where do you want to jump today? http://www.stackless.com/ From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 19:07:04 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:07:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] I don't know how many of you are reading conferences-discuss@python.org Message-ID: <200202131907.g1DJ74NK000443@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> But they are discussing something called Sprints now. See: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/conferences-discuss/2002-February/000029.html Sounds like fun to me. Laura From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 20:05:31 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:05:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget References: <20020213183628.GB6281@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6AC70B.18E9B9E@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Andrew Smart wrote: > [snip] > > I would be happy to talk to the python/zope crowd, but's truly > > not "tekki" talk. More like "project and process organisation with ZOPE in > > big (> 50 people) software development projects", "what does it mean to be a > > happy programmer" or other emotional stuff :-) > > Excellent! The Python for Suits/Python in the real world people > (hint to those people: nmake a team or something :) will hopefully get > back to you on this. There is seems to be a sizable contingent of people > interested in these issues. For now, please add proposals on the tracks page I've just created: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PythonInBusinessTrack -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 20:46:49 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:46:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Free/Open source issue In-Reply-To: <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: [snip] > Please, let's end this discussion. Sure. :) Regards, Martijn From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 20:52:57 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:52:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Why is GPL required in the contest?!? In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:46:49 +0100." <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202132052.g1DKqwGo000764@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Alas, 2 people have asked me now about this in the Competition: "The participants agree that their application free software, protected by the GPL licence." Some have got LGPL'd stuff. I think that any open source is more reasonable. Laura Creighton From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 13 20:57:52 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:57:52 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget, Press In-Reply-To: <3C6AC70B.18E9B9E@lemburg.com> Message-ID: I have just added some ideas... there is also an comment about the target audience, I just added a idea of mine. There is also a good question: who is doing the press/media sort of stuff? >> Excellent! The Python for Suits/Python in the real world people >> (hint to those people: nmake a team or something :) will hopefully get >> back to you on this. There is seems to be a sizable contingent of people >> interested in these issues. > >For now, please add proposals on the tracks page I've just created: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PythonInBusinessTrack > From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 13 20:57:11 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:57:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] programming-contest@europython.org Message-ID: <200202132057.g1DKvBtO000790@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> thats the address at the wiki. It does not work. -------------------------- lac@ratthing-b246:~$ show 117 (Message inbox:117) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:51:59 +0100 To: From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON Delivery-Date: Wed Feb 13 21:51:59 2002 Return-Path: MIME-Version: 1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) part 1 text/plain 563 Press to show content... The original message was received at Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:51:56 +0100 from root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.13.29.37] ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 550 Cannot route to ) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to mx00.schlund.de.: >>> DATA <<< 550 Cannot route to 550 5.1.1 ... User unknown <<< 503 Valid RCPT TO must precede DATA part 3 message/rfc822 1276 Press to show content... ------------------------------------------ Whats the real address, and fix the Wiki please Laura From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Wed Feb 13 21:01:28 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:01:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ProgrammingContest In-Reply-To: <20020213100515.A19137@clara1.tuxeon.com> References: <20020213100515.A19137@clara1.tuxeon.com> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 10:05, Stefane Fermigier a =E9crit : > On Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 09:40:37AM +0100, Alexandre Fayolle wrote: > > -> This is python we're talking about, and the GPL is not the defau= lt > > licence in the community, even if it is commonly used. I think imposi= ng > > the GPL, rather than, for instance, the Python Licence, is an error. > > Right. Any license stamped as free software by the FSF and Open Source = by > the OSI should do. This is OK for me Please do adapt the wiki accordingly. Regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 21:07:33 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:07:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Why is GPL required in the contest?!? References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> <200202132052.g1DKqwGo000764@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6AD595.C6FAC3EC@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > Alas, 2 people have asked me now about this in the Competition: > > "The participants agree that their application free software, > protected by the GPL licence." > > Some have got LGPL'd stuff. I think that any open source is more > reasonable. Didn't we agree that the application has to come under an OSI certified license as only requirement ?! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 21:08:08 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:08:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 14:57, Laura Creighton a =E9crit : > I tried the formulation 'free and open source software' for a conferenc= e > I organised. It bombed. Everybody thought I meant 'free/open source > software, that ALSO COST NO MONEY'. After all, if I did not mean > 'COST NO MONEY' then either free, or open source, would be enough. > > There are no easy answers here. I have personally moved to using > Open Source exclusively, and let the unthinking RMS-acolytes hate me, > but that may not be an option for you. > > Just to warn you that I tried it your way and it failed miserably. Thanks for the note.=20 As Stefane noted in an earlier mail, for many open source and free softwa= re=20 is the same (at least for him, and nearly for me) I agree that for people not knowing the details, there is a confusion wit= h=20 the price. I regret this. For me the conference is mainly aimed at people who are using python and = zope=20 in a commercial environment and take benefit for their openness, but also= at=20 students who I want to teach the values of this openness.=20 I agree to use the terms that will be the most appropriate and will lead = to=20 less confusion in the context described above. THis is unfortunate but wo= uld=20 need too much explanation. Maybe an explanation could once come. I could once write that to put on t= he=20 site. Could we / some of us review the wiki to correct this and present a unifo= rm=20 approach ?=20 Just an idea: one approach that was adopted at the European COmmission=20 consists to speak about libre software and explain how this temr relates = to=20 free and open-source. Could we use that formulation ? Is that OK for you ? Best regards, Nicolas > Laura Creighton > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 21:11:41 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:11:41 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget, Press References: Message-ID: <3C6AD68D.F3CF7917@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: > > I have just added some ideas... > there is also an comment about the target audience, I just added a idea of > mine. Thanks. > There is also a good question: who is doing the press/media sort of stuff? There will be a press release next week (the release is online, see http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease It includes a couple of press contacts and possible targets for the release. If know any other good candidates, please add them to the list. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 13 21:15:10 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:15:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Sprints and some ideas for it In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Message: 13 >Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 20:07:04 +0100 >From: Laura Creighton >To: europython@python.org >Subject: [EuroPython] I don't know how many of you are reading conferences-discuss@python.org > >But they are discussing something called Sprints now. See: >http://mail.python.org/pipermail/conferences-discuss/2002-February/000029.h tml > >Sounds like fun to me. YESSS.... I would like that too... One thing: to be "business acceptable" you need more direct connections to MS products. MS is *standard*, no way around. I'm very experienced in programming VB, and with an experienced python/ZOPE programmer on my side I can easily build some integration tools. Wouldn't it be VERY tempting for business people to see how easily you can integrate the existing software infrastructure into Python projects and visa versa? (Hey, I can remember my suprise at the first time I implemented a stable COM server without crashing within 30 minutes with WinPython...). Some NICE XML/SOAP hacks which can directly be started from within Microsoft Word documents... Andrew From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 21:22:14 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:22:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] I don't know how many of you are reading conferences-discuss@python.org In-Reply-To: <200202131907.g1DJ74NK000443@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202131907.g1DJ74NK000443@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020213212214.GB7287@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > But they are discussing something called Sprints now. See: > http://mail.python.org/pipermail/conferences-discuss/2002-February/000029.html > > Sounds like fun to me. Yeah, Paul Everitt already said he was interested in doing a Zope3 sprint around the EuroPython conference. This depends in part on whether someone funds Jim Fulton (or someone) coming over, though (and on space, of course). But we may be able to make EuroPython interesting enough to draw them without funds. A more python oriented sprint would also be very interesting, of course. Interesting idea. I don't have the time to track the whole sprint organization myself though. So any group of people interested in this please create a wiki page. I'm volunteering to take *part* in the sprint, though ;) Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 13 21:29:16 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:29:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Wiki editing References: Message-ID: <3C6ADAAC.14F44F84@lemburg.com> Please, no "discussions" on the wiki pages. If there are questions, these should be directed to the mailing list. Thank you. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 13 21:37:12 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:37:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation Message-ID: Hi folks, I have someone who is going to translate the english press release to german. I don't know if I can hold the deadline till friday. Question: I found no list of press contacts (magazines like C'T, Computerwoche)... Do the ZOPE companies have press staff which could help? Who is doing the press "work" - calling the magazines, getting on the nerves of the editor ;-) trying to get press people to the conference and so on? Andrew From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Wed Feb 13 21:42:58 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:42:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013636578.3c6adde268737@webmail.in-berlin.de> Andrew Smart : > I have someone who is going to translate the english press release to > german. I don't know if I can hold the deadline till friday. > > Question: I found no list of press contacts (magazines like C'T, > Computerwoche)... Go to http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress > Who is doing the press "work" - calling the magazines, getting on the > nerves > of the > editor ;-) trying to get press people to the conference and so on? Maybe the http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressTeam ? Dinu From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 21:55:30 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:55:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] programming-contest@europython.org In-Reply-To: <200202132057.g1DKvBtO000790@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202132057.g1DKvBtO000790@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020213215530.GA7691@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > thats the address at the wiki. It does not work. I didn't even know the address was mentioned anywhere. :) I'll cc this to ivo@amaze.nl, who is graciously helping us with the hosting of this affair. Ivo, the programming-contest@europython.org address doesn't work I think with the current redirect setup for the domain you can't make it work, right? You'd need full DNS control. Would you have the time to bug Thomas Reulbach about this? It'd really be much more convenient if the actual DNS record pointed to the right server. Perhaps it'd be even better if we could fix the ownership issue. Otherwise I've already got 'www.europy.org' as an alternative. If you don't have the time I'll go bug Thomas instead. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 21:56:25 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:56:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Talk and Budget, Press In-Reply-To: References: <3C6AC70B.18E9B9E@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020213215625.GB7691@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > I have just added some ideas... > there is also an comment about the target audience, I just added a idea of > mine. > > There is also a good question: who is doing the press/media sort of stuff? http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PublicRelationsTeam If you want to help, please add yourself. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 22:01:19 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:01:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Why is GPL required in the contest?!? In-Reply-To: <3C6AD595.C6FAC3EC@lemburg.com> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> <200202132052.g1DKqwGo000764@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6AD595.C6FAC3EC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020213220119.GC7691@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > Alas, 2 people have asked me now about this in the Competition: > > > > "The participants agree that their application free software, > > protected by the GPL licence." > > > > Some have got LGPL'd stuff. I think that any open source is more > > reasonable. > > Didn't we agree that the application has to come under an OSI > certified license as only requirement ?! Whee, the licenses again. I've hacked the programming contest wiki page to take out the GPL stuff and to put in the OSI stuff. The actual people organizing the contest will have to adjust this with proper text and URLs to the right places (OSI, FSF), but at least this will stop people from posting about this to the list again. ;) Btw, the prizes; who's going to pay for them? I'm wary of promising prizes if we don't have a proper budget yet. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 13 22:05:27 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:05:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Sprints and some ideas for it In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020213220527.GD7691@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: [sprints] > YESSS.... I would like that too... > > One thing: to be "business acceptable" you need more direct connections to > MS products. > MS is *standard*, no way around. I'm very experienced in programming VB, and > with an experienced python/ZOPE programmer on my side I can easily build > some integration tools. [snip why this is tempting for business people] It would be good to have some discussion/tutorial/talk at the conference about this. It won't be me organizing this part, as I don't work a lot with MS tools anymore though.. But make that part of the business track, by all means! I do not think MS integration should be the target of a sprint though; don't think you'll too many hackers with that. And I'd say sprints are for hackers primarily, not for business people. :) Regards, Martijn From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 22:50:22 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:50:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressRelease Message-ID: The press release on http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressRelease looks much better to me now, thanks to the comunity effort. In order to stress that, I have just added 'please remove if you don't li= ke,=20 but for me it makes a difference to have 20000 developpers contributing t= o a=20 community efforts and 3 000 000 independant developpers. I like best the=20 first and consider it to be more efficient. "Python, Jython and Zope are maintained and enhanced by a community effor= t,=20 supported by many companies, that contribute altogether to these=20 applications."=20 Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 22:59:46 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:59:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ToBeDone Message-ID: I have just added a page to summarize the actions to be done with a deadl= ine http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ToBeDone Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 23:02:47 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:02:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] programming-contest@europython.org In-Reply-To: <20020213215530.GA7691@vet.uu.nl> References: <200202132057.g1DKvBtO000790@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020213215530.GA7691@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 22:55, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > Ivo, the programming-contest@europython.org address doesn't work > > I think with the current redirect setup for the domain you can't make i= t > work, right? You'd need full DNS control. Would you have the time to > bug Thomas Reulbach about this? It'd really be much more convenient if > the actual DNS record pointed to the right server. Perhaps it'd be even > better if we could fix the ownership issue. Otherwise I've already got > 'www.europy.org' as an alternative. > > If you don't have the time I'll go bug Thomas instead. :) > We may need other addresses like info@europython.org soon I suppose. Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 23:05:33 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:05:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Why is GPL required in the contest?!? In-Reply-To: <20020213220119.GC7691@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AD595.C6FAC3EC@lemburg.com> <20020213220119.GC7691@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 23:01, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > > Didn't we agree that the application has to come under an OSI > > certified license as only requirement ?! > Whee, the licenses again. I've hacked the programming contest wiki > page to take out the GPL stuff and to put in the OSI stuff. This is much better indeed. Sorry I just copied the idea from Google cont= est. > The actual people organizing the contest will have to adjust this with > proper text and URLs to the right places (OSI, FSF), but at least this > will stop people from posting about this to the list again. ;) > > Btw, the prizes; who's going to pay for them? I'm wary of promising > prizes if we don't have a proper budget yet. :) Right, but I am quite sure we will find some money. Just don't knwo the=20 amount yet. It can be changed if you have other ideas. Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 23:16:52 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:16:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Free/Open source issue In-Reply-To: <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: I am sorry I introduced the "discussion" with the licence question in the= =20 programming contest.=20 I'll try to be more on the spot and be sure it doesn't come again (even i= f I=20 am intimately convinced that GPL is in the case of the public adminsitrat= ion,=20 ir. my case, the best licence) If it does come, please CHANGE it to "open-source (OSI) approved" Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Wed Feb 13 23:19:53 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 00:19:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] A talk about Stackless? In-Reply-To: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> References: <3C6A8AD9.2040302@tismer.com> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 16:48, Christian Tismer a =E9crit : > Hi Europythoneers, > > I'm at the moment very busy to get my completely new > Stackless implementation to fly. > I would like to give a talk at Europython. > It might be a paper, or maybe a discussion, for sure > there will be a presentation. > > Is there interest in this, and what shape is preferred? why don't yo add yourself to http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PeopleAndTalks Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From denis@aragne.com Thu Feb 14 01:04:58 2002 From: denis@aragne.com (Denis) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 02:04:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: <20020213183110.GA6281@vet.uu.nl> References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020213183110.GA6281@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020214020458.C11748@carolo.net> Le Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > Laura Creighton wrote: > > AB Strakt wants exhibition space. > > We need an ExhibitionTeam, so I've added one. Add your name to it if you > want to help puzzle this out. Denis Frere is our expert on the > conference grounds, so perhaps he should pop in and say something about > the possibilities. Well, I've been in that building and I think it's big enough for our conference. Now, I should have to go there again and have a new look in regard of all what's been discussed on this list. (At first, I tought it would be a great Python fair ; now, I sometimes fear it would become a BigIT-Expo. But I don't want to refrain your enthousiasm during what I think is still a brainstorming, so I prefer to keep silent until real decisions will be made). Let me a few days to manage a jump down there. I'll take some bigger pictures if you want to have a better view. Today, I'm looking at the http://www.ceme.be/en/sallea.htm page and I'm still thinking there is place enough : for example, there is a nice rotunda (so says my dictionary) big enough for small booths. It depends on what exhibitors want exactly. I guess I should join the ExhibitionTeam, SponsoringTeam or whatever you'd like to name it (yes, I think ExhibitionTeam should be a bit clarified). Perhaps that exhibitors could contact me directly, asking what they would like to have as free area, conveniences, etc. Regards, Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From tim@2wave.net Thu Feb 14 07:23:07 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:23:07 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020214072307.57878.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Who from the list is volunteering to become a member of the paper selection commitee ? """ I'm available to referee/review papers Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 07:27:13 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:27:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: <20020214072307.57878.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020214072307.57878.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1013671633.3c6b66d1d4b66@webmail.in-berlin.de> > > Who from the list is volunteering to become a member > > of the paper selection commitee ? > > I'm available to referee/review papers So am I. Dinu From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 07:36:43 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:36:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc Message-ID: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> Is anybody working on graphics material for EuroPython? Logo, styles, etc? Is there a DesignTeam? The most portable way of creating some nice logo is to use the free ReportLab graphics package, as Just van Rossum did for the logos of Python10 which you can see here: http://www.python10.org/ It gives you vector and bit- map graphics from which you can create any bitmap formats plus EPS and PDF (with almost infinite resolution). You can get it from http://www.reportlab.com . Just, are you here to comment on any possible donnations from your side? (I added "fonts" to the subject line to get your attention! ;-) Regards, Dinu From tim@2wave.net Thu Feb 14 08:06:42 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:06:42 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Program and Selection Committee roles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020214080642.63401.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Can we clarify the roles of the ProgramCommittee and the SelectionCommittee [so that both can get on without toe-treading :-) ]. Any offers? Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 08:08:59 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:08:59 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses Message-ID: <1013674139.3c6b709bdfae8@webmail.in-berlin.de> http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress contains a whole lot of entries, but in order to really contact them people need to have something like email addresses (or phone numbers). Could people try to provide such data for each entry, maybe? And someone should be appointed to actually do the mailings, maybe one for each country. Dinu From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 08:51:26 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:51:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo Message-ID: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> I'm not sure who maintains that, so I'm posting here: It should read: The 1st EuroPython Conference and not The 1ste EuroPython Conference In fact, why not just: The First EuroPython Conference Dinu From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 09:14:08 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 10:14:08 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo In-Reply-To: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <1013678048.3c6b7fe0093f4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Dinu Gherman : > I'm not sure who maintains that, so I'm posting here: Also a crucial piece of information is missing, namely the expected number of participants, which is important for sponsoring activities. It doesn't matter if it is 500 or 600, but it does matter if it is 50 or 500. You get the idea. My expectation would be around 200-300 participants. Heck, this list already has already 80 members... Dinu From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 11:06:33 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:06:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation In-Reply-To: <1013636578.3c6adde268737@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: > Maybe the http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressTeam ? I think you meant http://europython.org/wiki/PublicRelationTeam ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Thu Feb 14 11:19:59 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:19:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc In-Reply-To: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020214121959.E11748@carolo.net> Le Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 08:36:43AM +0100, Dinu Gherman pianota: > Is anybody working on graphics material for EuroPython? > Logo, styles, etc? Is there a DesignTeam? Since nothing is coming up to now, I've put one of our fellows on the matter. He will do something before the end of the day. (His name is Vincent Maton, he's now subscribed to the list too). > The most portable way of creating some > nice logo is to use the free ReportLab graphics package > [...] I love Reportlab libs, but Vincent is not used to play with it. If you help him, all is possible. Denis (I'll be out again for the whole day). -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 11:26:44 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:26:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: <20020214020458.C11748@carolo.net> Message-ID: > Perhaps that exhibitors could contact me directly, asking what they > would like to have as free area, conveniences, etc. AS a potential exhibitor, I'd say "Small is beautiful". We would mainly use a booth to let people that say "Hey, I'd like to eventually meet these guys" actually find us and have a display with slides presenting what we're doing. That's one table and two chairs. Small booths would be cheaper and you'd have more of them, so lot of companies could have a presence there and get a chance to meet with everyone else. My experience at fairs is that flex-your-muscles-big-boothers don't impress people that much and don't get much out of it... Start-up season is over by now, businesses would rather see you there every year with a 6m2 booth than one year with a 60m2 one and never ever again ;-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 11:54:19 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:54:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Offer: publishing contact Message-ID: <1013687659.3c6ba56b1ee63@webmail.in-berlin.de> Hi, I can establish a contact to a marketing person/manager=20 at PearsonEd.fr who is not quite sure they can sponsor the event, but would love to hear more about it. This should be=20 an excellent opportunity to train your persuasion muscles! Pearson.com is an "umbrella publisher" (not sure if that notion exists, maybe "container class" is more appropriate)=20 which, among many others, Addison-Wesley, Prentice-Hall=20 and Financial Times are a part of. I'm willing to give his coordinates to anybody speaking well French who can convince him to spend a few bucks. Who is that going to be, Denis, Nicolas&Nicolas or St=E9fane? Please get in touch and decide who will do it. Then ask=20 me for his coordinates... ;-) His general attitude is roughly this: Python hasn't quite=20 taken off in France, and definitly not with Pearson books. So I guess you can argue like this: if you don't jump on it now you'll leave it all to O'Reilly (who will likely organize a Python-specific event this year in the US). Also, there are 21 different Python books in Amazon.com - how many from Pearson? Regards, Dinu PS: BTW, we need to think what companies will get for thir sponsoring... From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 11:55:27 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 12:55:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] paper selection committee In-Reply-To: <1013671633.3c6b66d1d4b66@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: > > > Who from the list is volunteering to become a member > > > of the paper selection commitee ? > > > > I'm available to referee/review papers > > So am I. I added both of you to the list. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 12:12:50 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:12:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: Message from Nicolas Pettiaux of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 22:08:08 +0100." References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> >Nicolas Pettiaux > > Le Mercredi 13 F=E9vrier 2002 14:57, Laura Creighton a =E9crit : > > I tried the formulation 'free and open source software' for a conferen= ce > > I organised. It bombed. Everybody thought I meant 'free/open source > > software, that ALSO COST NO MONEY'. After all, if I did not mean > > 'COST NO MONEY' then either free, or open source, would be enough. > > > > There are no easy answers here. I have personally moved to using > > Open Source exclusively, and let the unthinking RMS-acolytes hate me, > > but that may not be an option for you. > > > > Just to warn you that I tried it your way and it failed miserably. > = > Thanks for the note. = > = > As Stefane noted in an earlier mail, for many open source and free softw= are = > is the same (at least for him, and nearly for me) > = > I agree that for people not knowing the details, there is a confusion wi= th = > the price. I regret this. > = > For me the conference is mainly aimed at people who are using python and= zope = > in a commercial environment and take benefit for their openness, but als= o at = > students who I want to teach the values of this openness. = ----------------- You will have no problem attracting students to this as long as = it does not cost too much, a goal you have attained. Once they arrive we can begin to educate them. But if you use the word Free in English describing the software at the conference, then the people who make purchasing decisions will think _this is a hobby conference_ and not come. I want to avoid this at all costs, even if some students whom it would be worth teaching about open source do not attend. Fliers that I want to send to major government purchasing agencies must not talk about free software, or I will not make any sales and it will be worse than a waste of time, it will damage my reputation as a commercially successful open source company. This must not happen. > I agree to use the terms that will be the most appropriate and will lead= to = > less confusion in the context described above. THis is unfortunate but w= ould = > need too much explanation. > = > Maybe an explanation could once come. I could once write that to put on = the = > site. > = > Could we / some of us review the wiki to correct this and present a unif= orm = > approach ? = > = > Just an idea: one approach that was adopted at the European COmmission = > consists to speak about libre software and explain how this temr relates= to = > free and open-source. Could we use that formulation ? On the Wiki, yes, great wonderful. Now, I have a question for you. Who is organising things with the Commission. I have some good contacts, but you are in Belgium, so you most likely have better ones. I want to invite the Commission to the conference. They have pots of money which they are trying to spend to foster European cooporation and competitiveness. We = should try to get some. What we are doing is precisely what they want us to do, so we should try to get paid for it. I have the idea for a track designed to teach the Commission that when they want a coorporative European solution to a computer related problem they should run not walk to the Python community and purchase one. We want talks about 'unicode and you: getting your name spelled correctly for a change' and 'python: the glue -- how to stick your solution together when half of it was made in European country A and the rest in European country B' and 'successful international collaborations using python' and .... I can brainstorm a dozen more off the top of my head. AB Strakt already has the sort of composition that the Commision makes noises about. We are in Sweden but have principals in Italy and the Netherlands. We think the difficulty in being a start-up with principals in separate countries is more than offset by how good you can be if you do not restrict yourself to only the people who are available in one country. We could talk about that, if there is any interest. We _will_ talk about that informally in any case. I know that Logilab has an international collaboration going on with some other countries. Who else? I want to leave the Commission with the idea that the python community is a great place to spend money. WHo is in charge of that, and what can we do to help? Laura Creighton -- on behalf of all of AB Strakt for this one --- From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 12:24:11 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 13:24:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: > I want to leave the Commission with the idea that the python community > is a great place to spend money. WHo is in charge of that, and > what can we do to help? Open up a page on the wiki that sums up what you just said :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From sf@fermigier.com Thu Feb 14 13:17:49 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:17:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Offer: publishing contact In-Reply-To: <1013687659.3c6ba56b1ee63@webmail.in-berlin.de>; from gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de on Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:54:19PM +0100 References: <1013687659.3c6ba56b1ee63@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:54:19PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > Hi, >=20 > I can establish a contact to a marketing person/manager=20 > at PearsonEd.fr who is not quite sure they can sponsor the > event, but would love to hear more about it. This should be=20 > an excellent opportunity to train your persuasion muscles! >=20 > Pearson.com is an "umbrella publisher" (not sure if that > notion exists, maybe "container class" is more appropriate)=20 > which, among many others, Addison-Wesley, Prentice-Hall=20 > and Financial Times are a part of. >=20 > I'm willing to give his coordinates to anybody speaking well > French who can convince him to spend a few bucks. Who > is that going to be, Denis, Nicolas&Nicolas or St=E9fane? > Please get in touch and decide who will do it. Then ask=20 > me for his coordinates... ;-) >=20 > His general attitude is roughly this: Python hasn't quite=20 > taken off in France, and definitly not with Pearson books. > So I guess you can argue like this: if you don't jump on > it now you'll leave it all to O'Reilly (who will likely organize > a Python-specific event this year in the US). Also, there > are 21 different Python books in Amazon.com - how many > from Pearson? Isn't New Riders / SAMS part of Pearson ? (I think so). Anyway, I can contact the person in France (I may even pehaps already know him/her). S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 13:21:20 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 14:21:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Offer: publishing contact In-Reply-To: <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013687659.3c6ba56b1ee63@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <1013692880.3c6bb9d0c8caa@webmail.in-berlin.de> Stefane Fermigier : > Isn't New Riders / SAMS part of Pearson ? (I think so). Yes, I forgot that... > Anyway, I can contact the person in France (I may even pehaps already > know him/her). I'm sending you the details under seperate cover. Let me know what happened... Dinu From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 14:29:37 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:29:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Sprints and some ideas for it In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Wed, 13 Feb 2002 23:05:27 +0100." <20020213220527.GD7691@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020213220527.GD7691@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202141429.g1EETbGo001650@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > I do not think MS integration should be the target of a sprint though; > don't think you'll too many hackers with that. And I'd say sprints are for > hackers primarily, not for business people. :) > > Regards, > > Martijn > I had enormous success at an open source conference where we just took requests from business people and fixed them up with solutions. A team had 3 hours to produce one. The whole idea was to impress business people that you could actually order an open source solution to any problem you had. Admittedly, this conference was put on by idependent open source consultants who had come there to impress the hell out of the suits so they could get nice new paying contracts --- but there is nothing in my experience that says we are in any way short of such people in the python community. So I would say, give it a chance. Laura Creighton From nico@tekNico.net Thu Feb 14 14:42:48 2002 From: nico@tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:42:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release in Italian Message-ID: <3C6BCCE8.1080208@tekNico.net> Hi everybody, hi Martijn ;^) . I added a page for the press release in Italian, I will translate it as soon as the deadline elapses (that was next Friday, right?). Looking forward to see you all in Charleroi! -- "I was wondering if there's any kind of definitive nickname for Perl programmers, the way we call ourselves Pythonistas?" - Aahz Maruch "Masochists." - Daniel Klein Nicola Larosa - nico@tekNico.net From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 14:47:39 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 15:47:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Martijn Faassen Message-ID: <200202141447.g1EEldN3001760@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> While doing other things I have corrected the spelling of this name twice. There are 2 's'es. Somebody making press releases does not know this. Laura From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 16:24:18 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:24:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] AW: Sprints and some ideas for it In-Reply-To: <200202141429.g1EETbGo001650@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020213220527.GD7691@vet.uu.nl> <200202141429.g1EETbGo001650@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020214162418.GA10856@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I do not think MS integration should be the target of a sprint though; > > don't think you'll too many hackers with that. And I'd say sprints are for > > hackers primarily, not for business people. :) > I had enormous success at an open source conference where we just > took requests from business people and fixed them up with solutions. > A team had 3 hours to produce one. The whole idea was to impress > business people that you could actually order an open source solution > to any problem you had. Admittedly, this conference was put on > by idependent open source consultants who had come there to impress > the hell out of the suits so they could get nice new paying > contracts --- but there is nothing in my experience that says we > are in any way short of such people in the python community. So > I would say, give it a chance. I'd like to give that a chance, if there are people willing to organize that. But I'd like to separate that from a 'sprint', which I selfishly think should be more hacker-oriented (lower level infrastructure and abstractions and such, by hackers for hackers). But there's no reason we can't have both (or either, given time and motivation). Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 16:25:54 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:25:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo In-Reply-To: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020214162554.GB10856@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > I'm not sure who maintains that, so I'm posting here: > It should read: > > The 1st EuroPython Conference > > and not > > The 1ste EuroPython Conference > > In fact, why not just: > > The First EuroPython Conference Thought I'd corrected that in a page already. Did it go back? Perhaps there wasn't another page. For historical reasons I'm wary of using 'first'; there are too many claims for 'first' and I don't want to offend any such claims. I'd like to de-empathize the word 'first' a little. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 16:29:45 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:29:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Martijn Faassen In-Reply-To: <200202141447.g1EEldN3001760@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202141447.g1EEldN3001760@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020214162945.GC10856@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > While doing other things I have corrected the spelling of this name twice. > There are 2 's'es. Somebody making press releases does not know this. Thanks! I know everybody keeps misspelling my last name. Angalon (a MUD I run..) even catches my last name in its 'offensiveness filter' for character names if I mistakenly try to log in with that (instead of my mud nickname). Now it should be easy for people to remember that there's two 's'es after the a (but two a's as well :). Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 16:32:21 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:32:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Program and Selection Committee roles In-Reply-To: <20020214080642.63401.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020214080642.63401.qmail@web14501.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020214163221.GD10856@vet.uu.nl> Tim Couper wrote: > Can we clarify the roles of the ProgramCommittee and > the SelectionCommittee [so that both can get on > without toe-treading :-) ]. Perhaps we should just merge them. But if we don't, the selection committee would be responsible for the *content* of the talks (and primarily the talks), and who gives the talks and such. The program committee is responsible for the actual program, like, what happens when. This doesn't only include the talks, but also things like breaks and special events. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 16:34:32 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:34:32 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release in Italian In-Reply-To: <3C6BCCE8.1080208@tekNico.net> References: <3C6BCCE8.1080208@tekNico.net> Message-ID: <20020214163431.GE10856@vet.uu.nl> Nicola Larosa wrote: > Hi everybody, hi Martijn ;^) . Hi there! > I added a page for the press release in Italian, I will translate it as > soon as the deadline elapses (that was next Friday, right?). Yup, tomorrow. Thanks! > Looking forward to see you all in Charleroi! Likewise! Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 17:00:05 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:00:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses References: <1013674139.3c6b709bdfae8@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C6BED15.AAC2616A@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress > > contains a whole lot of entries, but in order to really contact > them people need to have something like email addresses > (or phone numbers). Could people try to provide such data > for each entry, maybe? And someone should be appointed > to actually do the mailings, maybe one for each country. Why not simply add the name of the people willing to establish the contact behind the entries ? Then, if the release has been sent there (which should happen early next week), this fact should also be noted behind the entry. I've put the procedure on the wiki page: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 17:03:18 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:03:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> <1013678048.3c6b7fe0093f4@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C6BEDD6.E84619E6@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Dinu Gherman : > > > I'm not sure who maintains that, so I'm posting here: > > Also a crucial piece of information is missing, namely > the expected number of participants, which is important > for sponsoring activities. It doesn't matter if it is 500 or > 600, but it does matter if it is 50 or 500. You get the idea. > > My expectation would be around 200-300 participants. > Heck, this list already has already 80 members... That number should go onto: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceAttendees -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 17:04:26 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:04:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference References: Message-ID: <3C6BEE1A.973CE596@lemburg.com> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > > Perhaps that exhibitors could contact me directly, asking what they > > would like to have as free area, conveniences, etc. > > AS a potential exhibitor, I'd say "Small is beautiful". We would mainly > use a booth to let people that say "Hey, I'd like to eventually meet these > guys" actually find us and have a display with slides presenting what > we're doing. That's one table and two chairs. > > Small booths would be cheaper and you'd have more of them, so lot of > companies could have a presence there and get a chance to meet with > everyone else. > > My experience at fairs is that flex-your-muscles-big-boothers don't > impress people that much and don't get much out of it... Start-up season > is over by now, businesses would rather see you there every year with a > 6m2 booth than one year with a 60m2 one and never ever again ;-) Please put this information on: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceExhibitors -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 17:45:09 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:45:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Wiki Syntax - TextFormattingRules Message-ID: <200202141745.g1EHj91B003260@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I have read: TextFormattingRules But still do not know how to paste in a chunk of text, code say, where you want no bullets, not a blank line after every line, and no squishing the lines together either. Just exactly as written. How? Laura Creighton From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 18:13:14 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:13:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Wiki Syntax - TextFormattingRules References: <200202141745.g1EHj91B003260@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6BFE3A.51CD4C@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I have read: TextFormattingRules > But still do not know how to paste in a chunk of text, code say, where > you want no bullets, not a blank line after every line, and no > squishing the lines together either. Just exactly as written. > How?
...
??? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Thu Feb 14 17:27:28 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 18:27:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees Message-ID: Hi, in April (11th, 12th) is the ZOPE BBQ meeting in Berlin... Is there anyone from beehieve (they organize the BBQ) on this list? I think we could use their estimates of attendees to get a feeling, if they are willing to supply us with this information. Andrew From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 18:15:39 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:15:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Wiki Syntax - TextFormattingRules In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:13:14 +0100." <3C6BFE3A.51CD4C@lemburg.com> References: <200202141745.g1EHj91B003260@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6BFE3A.51CD4C@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202141815.g1EIFdGo003492@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Marc-Andre Lemburg > > > me > > I have read: TextFormattingRules > > But still do not know how to paste in a chunk of text, code say, where > > you want no bullets, not a blank line after every line, and no > > squishing the lines together either. Just exactly as written. > > How? > >
> ...
> 
> > ??? Works great. thank you. Laura From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 18:51:15 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:51:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressRelease In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020214185115.GA11765@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, I've given the press release an edit, straightening out and toning down some of the language, and eliminating the implication of a Jython track (we'll have talks on Jython, but I didn't know we had agreed on a special track yet). I've left the whole track issue a bit less prominent, only emphasizing the Zope track, which we'll definitely have besides the Python stuff. I've renamed the conference team from 'EuroPython/Zope Conference Team' to 'EuroPython Conference Team', in the general policy of emphasizing Python, and in the interest of pronouncability. Where does the 20,000 Zope developers figure come from, by the way? I've rewritten Nicolas P's addition to: """ Python, Jython and Zope are maintained and enhanced in open source fashion by an international community of programmers and companies. """ A native speaker of English should preferably a final check of the language after the wiki editing stops tomorrow. After that final round of controlled editing we can start finalizing the translations and sending out the press release, probably early next week. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 18:55:29 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:55:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc In-Reply-To: <20020214121959.E11748@carolo.net> References: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214121959.E11748@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020214185529.GB11765@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > Le Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 08:36:43AM +0100, Dinu Gherman pianota: > > Is anybody working on graphics material for EuroPython? > > Logo, styles, etc? Is there a DesignTeam? > > Since nothing is coming up to now, I've put one of our fellows > on the matter. He will do something before the end of the day. > (His name is Vincent Maton, he's now subscribed to the list too). We've now got a DesignTeam responsible for these issues. Anyone interested should add their name to this page: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/DesignTeam Regards, Martijn From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 18:56:07 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:56:07 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <3C6BED15.AAC2616A@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > Why not simply add the name of the people willing to > establish the contact behind the entries ? Then, if the > release has been sent there (which should happen early > next week), this fact should also be noted behind the entry. > > I've put the procedure on the wiki page: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress Alastair, would you mind explaining again your nice trick about TODOs sorted by name with the ReverseLink (was that the name) feature of the wiki ? Sounds like it could be useful for everyone to add that reverse-linking stuff to their FirstnameLastname page for example. Or to a common TODO page if it's preferred. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 19:00:09 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:00:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: References: <20020214020458.C11748@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020214190009.GC11765@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > Perhaps that exhibitors could contact me directly, asking what they > > would like to have as free area, conveniences, etc. > > AS a potential exhibitor, I'd say "Small is beautiful". We would mainly > use a booth to let people that say "Hey, I'd like to eventually meet these > guys" actually find us and have a display with slides presenting what > we're doing. That's one table and two chairs. I agree we should go small. A table, or alternatively a poster with some details about the company or their technology. A person would be standing there explaining their technology. We do need to decide whether these stands would be permanent or only manned at special times where people get the opportunity to check 'm out. If they can be in a main 'thoroughfare' where many attendees are likely to pass frequently that'd be nice. If that is not possible, we should create special sessions so that the attendees can go and visit the stands. Regards, Martijn From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Thu Feb 14 19:02:50 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:02:50 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013713370.3c6c09daa8d39@webmail.in-berlin.de> Andrew Smart : > Is there anyone from beehieve (they organize the BBQ) on this list? > I think we could use their estimates of attendees to get a feeling, if > they are willing to supply us with this information. All I know is that their target groups were pure Zope users, who more or less happend to learn that Zope was written mostly in Python... I wouldn't expect very useful estimates, but feel free to ask mark@beehive.de. Dinu From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 19:08:34 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:08:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: [avoid the word 'Free' in press releases for marketing reasons] I think that this is a good point, and we'll attempt to avoid giving the word 'Free' too prominent attention. [snip] > > Just an idea: one approach that was adopted at the European COmmission > > consists to speak about libre software and explain how this temr relates to > > free and open-source. Could we use that formulation ? > > On the Wiki, yes, great wonderful. Okay, hereby I declare that we can also use the phrase 'Libre Software' as an alternative for 'open source software' in some contexts. This all fits in with my theory that we can offend RMS freely if we like. Now only if we could fit in the word 'communism' in there somewhere to really offend ESR.. Perhaps 'socialism' will do. :) [snip lots of good questions about the European Commission] As was already said, please do set up a team for this, and run it together with Nicolas Pettiaux and whomever else is interested. See the teams page: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTeams Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 19:09:54 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:09:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressRelease References: <20020214185115.GA11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6C0B82.6A0617F1@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Hi there, > > I've given the press release an edit, straightening out and toning down > some of the language, and eliminating the implication of a Jython track > (we'll have talks on Jython, but I didn't know we had agreed on a special > track yet). I've left the whole track issue a bit less prominent, only > emphasizing the Zope track, which we'll definitely have besides the > Python stuff. Looks good :-) > I've renamed the conference team from 'EuroPython/Zope Conference > Team' to 'EuroPython Conference Team', in the general policy of > emphasizing Python, and in the interest of pronouncability. > > Where does the 20,000 Zope developers figure come from, by the way? I'd suggest to remove the quote from the text; without empirical background they are worth all that much. BTW, it would be an interesting project to try to figure out the number of Python users we have today. > I've rewritten Nicolas P's addition to: > > """ > Python, Jython and Zope are maintained and enhanced in open source fashion by > an international community of programmers and companies. > """ > > A native speaker of English should preferably a final check of the language > after the wiki editing stops tomorrow. After that final round of controlled > editing we can start finalizing the translations and sending out the press > release, probably early next week. Great ! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 19:13:13 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:13:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo In-Reply-To: <3C6BEDD6.E84619E6@lemburg.com> References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> <1013678048.3c6b7fe0093f4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6BEDD6.E84619E6@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020214191313.GE11765@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > My expectation would be around 200-300 participants. > > Heck, this list already has already 80 members... > > That number should go onto: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceAttendees I've added some commentary to that. I suspect that if we're lucky we'll get something more in the range of 400-600 participants. The Zope attendees may make 150-200 alone, and I am seeing more and more how big the Python community in Europe really must be, given the fact that the list participants are likely only to be the tip of the iceberg. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Thu Feb 14 19:14:57 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:14:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020214191457.GF11765@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > in April (11th, 12th) is the ZOPE BBQ meeting in Berlin... > > Is there anyone from beehieve (they organize the BBQ) on this list? > I think we could use their estimates of attendees to get a feeling, if they > are willing to supply us with this information. I'm vaguely planning to go to that BBQ meeting. I'll also contact Mark Pratt right now. Regards, Martijn From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Thu Feb 14 19:20:47 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:20:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > As was already said, please do set up a team for this, and run it together > with Nicolas Pettiaux and whomever else is interested. See the teams page: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTeams Did that : http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/EuropeanTeam -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From lac@strakt.com Thu Feb 14 19:18:33 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:18:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:08:34 +0100." <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Martijn Faassen > > This all fits in with my theory that we can offend RMS freely if we > like. Now only if we could fit in the word 'communism' in there somewhere > to really offend ESR.. Perhaps 'socialism' will do. :) I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure out how to make a new Wiki Page). That should be good enough. Now that we have offended everybody, we had better do something to be inclusive again. Laura From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 19:34:25 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:34:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> <1013678048.3c6b7fe0093f4@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6BEDD6.E84619E6@lemburg.com> <20020214191313.GE11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6C1141.16BD64B@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > > My expectation would be around 200-300 participants. > > > Heck, this list already has already 80 members... > > > > That number should go onto: > > > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceAttendees > > I've added some commentary to that. I suspect that if we're lucky we'll > get something more in the range of 400-600 participants. The Zope attendees > may make 150-200 alone, and I am seeing more and more how big the Python > community in Europe really must be, given the fact that the list participants > are likely only to be the tip of the iceberg. Let's hope the best :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Thu Feb 14 19:37:59 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:37:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6C1217.BB1F8A5F@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure out > how to make a new Wiki Page). Simple: 1. edit the parent page, 2. add a JaddaJadda formatted name to it, then, 3. reading the parent page you'll notice a small '?' next to JaddaJadda. Click on that question mark and edit the text for the page. That's it :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Thu Feb 14 19:29:56 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:29:56 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: <20020214191457.GF11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: I'll be there also... Anyone else? Andrew -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]Im Auftrag von Martijn Faassen Gesendet: Donnerstag, 14. Februar 2002 20:15 An: Andrew Smart Cc: Europython Betreff: Re: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees Andrew Smart wrote: > in April (11th, 12th) is the ZOPE BBQ meeting in Berlin... > > Is there anyone from beehieve (they organize the BBQ) on this list? > I think we could use their estimates of attendees to get a feeling, if they > are willing to supply us with this information. I'm vaguely planning to go to that BBQ meeting. I'll also contact Mark Pratt right now. Regards, Martijn _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From burt@dfki.de Thu Feb 14 20:57:15 2002 From: burt@dfki.de (Alastair Burt) Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:57:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Nicolas Chauvat writes: > Alastair, would you mind explaining again your nice trick about TODOs > sorted by name with the ReverseLink (was that the name) feature of the > wiki ? They seem to be called *backlinks*. And the trick is you sprinkle NicoToDo strings around the web site and create a Wiki page of that name that may as well remain empty. When you go to that page you will see NicoToDo in a large font at the top. Click it and a personal todo list will magically appear before your eyes. Your goal is to do your stuff, remove the NicoToDo strings as you go and reduce that list to nothing. --- Alastair=20 --=20 --- ---- Alastair Burt German Centre for AI (DFKI), Stuhlsatzenhausweg 3 Saarbr=FCcken 66123, Germany=20=09=09=09=09=09=09 Email: burt@dfki.de Tel: +49 681 302 2565 Fax: +49 681 302 2235 From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Thu Feb 14 23:39:36 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:39:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython.org typo In-Reply-To: <3C6C1141.16BD64B@lemburg.com> References: <1013676686.3c6b7a8e0617b@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214191313.GE11765@vet.uu.nl> <3C6C1141.16BD64B@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Jeudi 14 F=E9vrier 2002 20:34, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > > I've added some commentary to that. I suspect that if we're lucky we'= ll > > get something more in the range of 400-600 participants. The Zope > > attendees may make 150-200 alone, and I am seeing more and more how b= ig > > the Python community in Europe really must be, given the fact that th= e > > list participants are likely only to be the tip of the iceberg. > > Let's hope the best :-) Yes. I suppose 200-300 and maybe wrong by a factr of 2 is a godd estimate= =2E Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From denis@aragne.com Thu Feb 14 23:57:15 2002 From: denis@aragne.com (Denis) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:57:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Offer: publishing contact In-Reply-To: <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013687659.3c6ba56b1ee63@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020215005715.A24816@carolo.net> Le Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 02:17:49PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier pianota: > On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:54:19PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > His general attitude is roughly this: Python hasn't quite > > taken off in France, and definitly not with Pearson books. > > [...] > > Isn't New Riders / SAMS part of Pearson ? (I think so). Not sure for New Riders, sure for SAMS. They took over CampusPress last year. If it can help : I translated the book "L'Intro Python" that's Ivan Van Laningham's "Python in 24 hours" (SAM's Publishing). I've to admit it was not the best book about Python. > Anyway, I can contact the person in France (I may even pehaps already > know him/her). Tell him that with the fee I got for that translation, they should have some money left ! ;-) And they still owe me 10 books... Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Samuele Pedroni" <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> <200202132052.g1DKqwGo000764@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <023a01c1b588$b5d501e0$6d94fea9@newmexico> Hi, I'm the other Jython hacker with a .ch domain. Finn Bock has contacted me. All I can say for the moment is that I reasonably plan to attend. regards, Samuele Pedroni. * www.jython.org www.oreilly.com/catalog/jythoness sf.net/projects/jrgp From Tom Deprez" Woops, I forgot that today was valentine... luckely I could manage to buy something... but this means I still haven't done anything on braking up the website into parts... anyway perhaps better to talk about this first... Lets all who want to talk, talk... : 1. Although I'm not used to ZPT, I'm in favor doing it this way... are there people having objectives to ZPT? 2. Are there people who are used at developing CSS? If so, is it possible to make a quick one, which can be used during development and which one contains most thingies (but doesn't have to be final). Could it be done before saterday? I would like to make a very preliminary thing on which we than can build further. 3. I don't think the site has to be really eye-catching. The most important thing is: -all the needed must be there and it must be easely found. 4. Personally I like the Python10 site (information) and the OpenOffice (nice simple layout) site... 5. We need to make entries for sure: * Where it takes place, how to get there, ... * Hotels, How to get to the congress. * Conference Schedules * Speakers * News section (really needed?) * Subscription section * Section to send the abstracts by email? * Sponsors * Organisators/ Contact Persons Mmmm... shouldn't be that hard I guess... Tom. From Tom Deprez" <20020214141749.G49973@math.jussieu.fr> <20020215005715.A24816@carolo.net> Message-ID: <039d01c1b5b5$2c9ab910$358d84d5@skullsplitter> Mmmm, I can try to ask publishers... Although all in America, I've worked (working) for IDG, New Riders and SAMS. Perhaps they can give me some contact persons in Europe. Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis" To: "Stefane Fermigier" Cc: "EuroPython" Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:57 AM Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Offer: publishing contact > Le Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 02:17:49PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier pianota: > > On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 12:54:19PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > His general attitude is roughly this: Python hasn't quite > > > taken off in France, and definitly not with Pearson books. > > > [...] > > > > Isn't New Riders / SAMS part of Pearson ? (I think so). > > Not sure for New Riders, sure for SAMS. They took over CampusPress last > year. > > If it can help : I translated the book "L'Intro Python" that's Ivan > Van Laningham's "Python in 24 hours" (SAM's Publishing). > I've to admit it was not the best book about Python. > > > Anyway, I can contact the person in France (I may even pehaps already > > know him/her). > > Tell him that with the fee I got for that translation, they should have > some money left ! ;-) > And they still owe me 10 books... > > Denis > > -- > Denis FRERE > P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org > OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org > Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 01:27:05 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:27:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] YAPC experiences (forwarded) Message-ID: <20020215012705.GA13546@vet.uu.nl> --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Hi there, I find the attached interesting for consideration of the EuroPython group (it was posted to the python conferences list, which was newly opened and seems to be catering to a largely North American audience for Python conferences so far.) Anyway, the YAPC approach seems to be quite similar to our own, so we may learn something there. Regards, Martijn --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-path: Envelope-to: faassen@localhost Delivery-date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:08:09 +0100 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] ident=faassen) by develop.vet.uu.nl with esmtp (Exim 3.34 #1 (Debian)) id 16bWee-0003ES-0F for ; Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:55:12 +0100 Received: from mail.vet.uu.nl [131.211.172.25] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-5.9.7) for faassen@localhost (single-drop); Fri, 15 Feb 2002 01:55:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from mail.python.org (mail.python.org [63.102.49.29]) by dgkm.vet.uu.nl (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA25450 for ; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:15:03 +0100 (MET) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.python.org) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 16bU9e-0006W3-00; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:15:02 -0500 Received: from [166.84.0.213] (helo=mail2.panix.com) by mail.python.org with esmtp (Exim 3.21 #1) id 16bU92-0006UA-00 for conferences-discuss@python.org; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:14:24 -0500 Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [166.84.1.2]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAF858EF6; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:14:23 -0500 (EST) Received: (from ziggy@localhost) by panix2.panix.com (8.11.3nb1/8.8.8/PanixN1.0) id g1EMENo19387; Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:14:23 -0500 (EST) From: Adam Turoff To: Aahz Maruch Cc: David Ascher , conferences-discuss@python.org Subject: Re: [Conferences-discuss] Let's step back a bit... Message-ID: <20020214221423.GC19360@panix.com> References: <3C6BFDC0.2A23502E@activestate.com> <20020214182338.7D7BCE8C1@waltz.rahul.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20020214182338.7D7BCE8C1@waltz.rahul.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.25i Sender: conferences-discuss-admin@python.org Errors-To: conferences-discuss-admin@python.org X-BeenThere: conferences-discuss@python.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 (101270) Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussing the future of the Python conferences List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:14:23 -0500 X-UIDL: f33028e647f7dc315dc885c144659965 On Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 10:23:37AM -0800, Aahz Maruch wrote: > My take is that what we're seeing is the result of consensus that we > want something kind of like YAPC, and we're treading water while we wait > for Guido to tell us what YAS wants from us to get moving. Speaking with my YAS hat on... YAPC has always been a self-organizing event. That's the way we created it, that's the way we wanted it, that's the way it's worked for us. Furthermore, the model has been repeatedly successful -- at least for our community, filling our expectations and suiting our needs. The recipe is actually quite simple: Assume you'll get enough content. (Hasn't been a problem so far) Find a venue that provides: enough room for the attendees enough room for all of the concurrent tracks basic power, projector, etc. ethernet Add catering breakfast beverages and such at break lunch (or proximity to lunch) dinner (or proximity to dinner) Handle lodging, transportation, etc. proximity to hotels, group discounts if possible should be close to typical transit hubs Add frills proceedings 802.11b conference area network badges tshirts tote bags / lanyards / swag / etc. These issues need to be tackled in pretty much this order. I neglected to mention budgetary issues. Part of that is because the low-cost aspect of YAPC is an integral part to how we define it; sponsorship has been a fundemental aspect of any YAPC, with sponsors providing the funds for proceedings, some of the catering, etc. How do we choose a location? Simple: A host committee puts together a rough proposal that covers the basic requirements (venue, catering, lodging, etc.) The best proposal is chosen The site is announced For YAPC, the selection of "best proposal" incorporates total cost for the event, cost to the attendee, and proximity to dorms/cheap student lodging. Location is a factor in that we want to bring Perl events to those who can't get to California easily/cheaply for OSCON. We also want to keep the conference cost at or below US$100 for a three day event. Now, with all of that out of the way, what does YAS want? First off, we're not offering to take over the role of conference organizer (i.e. Fortec); we're more interested in community building. If the Python community wants to organize a conference (YAPC like or otherwise), we're happy to fill the role of facilitator and bring our experience to the table[*]. Most of the work would need to be done on a volunteer basis though -- the program committee, editing and formatting of the proceedings (if produced), the registration table, liasons with the host facility, etc. But what does YAS need in order to help put a Python event together? The first and most important thing all of us need (Pythonistas and YAS) is a clear idea of the expectations and requirements for this conference. If Pythonistas are used to paying upwards of $1000 in conference fees, is $250/3 days acceptable, or is the goal to meet the YAS model of $100/3 days? What are the expectations in terms of the number concurrent tracks? Number of presentations? Number of tutorials? How important is low-cost student accomodation? Is there a good time of year, or is facility availability a driving factor? Can someone use their contacts at a university? Do they want to volunteer as a liason? Do they want to make an introduction? Is this the One and Only International Python Conference, or is this a small regional conference? Are both required/necessary/desirable? How does this fit into plans for Python/Zope tracks at the O'Reilly conference? Just a few ideas to chew on, Z. *: YAS has done registration for YAPCs in the past. No reason why this couldn't be done for a Python conference as well. _______________________________________________ Conferences-discuss mailing list Conferences-discuss@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/conferences-discuss --azLHFNyN32YCQGCU-- From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 01:46:33 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:46:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Exhibitors at the EuroPython Conference In-Reply-To: <20020214020458.C11748@carolo.net> References: <3C695066.1308E6A5@openstepnews.com> <3C6A3CE4.B620E986@lemburg.com> <200202131807.g1DI73Go032625@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020213183110.GA6281@vet.uu.nl> <20020214020458.C11748@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020215014633.GA13798@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > Le Wed, Feb 13, 2002 at 07:31:10PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > AB Strakt wants exhibition space. > > > > We need an ExhibitionTeam, so I've added one. Add your name to it if you > > want to help puzzle this out. Denis Frere is our expert on the > > conference grounds, so perhaps he should pop in and say something about > > the possibilities. > > Well, I've been in that building and I think it's big enough for our > conference. Now, I should have to go there again and have a new look in > regard of all what's been discussed on this list. > (At first, I tought it would be a great Python fair ; now, I sometimes > fear it would become a BigIT-Expo. But I don't want to refrain your > enthousiasm during what I think is still a brainstorming, so I prefer > to keep silent until real decisions will be made). We don't want to become BigIT Expo with huge booths and such. What we want is a way in which relatively small geekish companies can show off to everybody what they are doing. As was mentioned before, you need a table or a poster and a computer somewhere. Internet access would be nice. > Let me a few days to manage a jump down there. I'll take some bigger > pictures if you want to have a better view. Today, I'm looking at the > http://www.ceme.be/en/sallea.htm page and I'm still thinking there is > place enough : for example, there is a nice rotunda (so says my > dictionary) big enough for small booths. Thanks for scouting this out. I'm sure there's sufficient space. > > It depends on what exhibitors want exactly. > > I guess I should join the ExhibitionTeam, SponsoringTeam or whatever > you'd like to name it (yes, I think ExhibitionTeam should be a bit > clarified). Yup, add yourself to the ExhibitionTeam. The Sponsoring/Financial stuff is another thing in my mind, though of course sponsoring and the right to exhibit may be connected to make it more likely people will sponsor us. :) > Perhaps that exhibitors could contact me directly, asking what they > would like to have as free area, conveniences, etc. I think we should start with the wiki page and work from that. If there are any exhibitors that need privacy or have very special concerns about the building themselves, feel free to contact Denis directly, of course. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 01:49:24 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:49:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] more Jython ;) In-Reply-To: <023a01c1b588$b5d501e0$6d94fea9@newmexico> References: <20020213155503.GA4234@vet.uu.nl> <3C6AB5C8.AB5DEDC@lemburg.com> <20020213204649.GA7287@vet.uu.nl> <200202132052.g1DKqwGo000764@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <023a01c1b588$b5d501e0$6d94fea9@newmexico> Message-ID: <20020215014924.GB13798@vet.uu.nl> Samuele Pedroni wrote: > I'm the other Jython hacker with a .ch domain. > > Finn Bock has contacted me. > > All I can say for the moment is that > I reasonably plan to attend. Sounds great! If you can Finn can work out some interesting talks/sessions for Jython that'd make us very happy -- we're already listing Jython specifically in the press release, so we'll have to have something now. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 01:52:14 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:52:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: <1013713370.3c6c09daa8d39@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013713370.3c6c09daa8d39@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020215015214.GC13798@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Andrew Smart : > > > Is there anyone from beehieve (they organize the BBQ) on this list? > > I think we could use their estimates of attendees to get a feeling, if > > they are willing to supply us with this information. > > All I know is that their target groups were pure Zope users, > who more or less happend to learn that Zope was written > mostly in Python... I wouldn't expect very useful estimates, > but feel free to ask mark@beehive.de. We can expect we'll get quite a few of that target group showing up though, which is why we're organizing a Zope track. How many people will show up for that is quite a useful estimate all by itself. Note also that Mark Pratt has mentioned in the past he was interested in organizing a Python event, so I'm really hoping he'd like to contribute to EuroPython's organization. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 01:55:17 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:55:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202131357.g1DDvxGo031006@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > > Martijn Faassen > > > > This all fits in with my theory that we can offend RMS freely if we > > like. Now only if we could fit in the word 'communism' in there somewhere > > to really offend ESR.. Perhaps 'socialism' will do. :) > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure out > how to make a new Wiki Page). That should be good enough. Now that > we have offended everybody, we had better do something to be inclusive > again. Oh, right, I'd forgotten about the evil socialist government money! Besides, Denis told us that the socialists are the main party in power in Charleroi, and they're sponsoring the venue already. Okay, we've got ESR fully covered! (though he may say all the tax money we can get back from the evil government is only good for everybody, but that's a cop-out :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 02:05:03 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 03:05:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Ok, back In-Reply-To: <038001c1b5b4$bda236f0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> References: <038001c1b5b4$bda236f0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020215020503.GE13798@vet.uu.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: [snip] > 1. Although I'm not used to ZPT, I'm in favor doing it this way... are there > people having objectives to ZPT? ZPT's fine with me, but no objections to DTML. Infrae (Kit and I :) have been switching our development from DTML to ZPT in the last few months and we noticed getting the hang of it happened very quickly. > 2. Are there people who are used at developing CSS? If so, is it possible to > make a quick one, which can be used during development and which one > contains most thingies (but doesn't have to be final). I can ask Kit here. I'll let you know tomorrow. > Could it be done before saterday? I would like to make a very preliminary > thing on which we than can build further. Up to you guys. :) > 3. I don't think the site has to be really eye-catching. The most important > thing is: > > -all the needed must be there and it must be easely found. Agreed. It just needs to look nice and clean. > 5. We need to make entries for sure: > > * Where it takes place, how to get there, ... > * Hotels, How to get to the congress. > * Conference Schedules > * Speakers > * News section (really needed?) > * Subscription section > * Section to send the abstracts by email? > * Sponsors > * Organisators/ Contact Persons By next week I expect some of our wiki pages will be cooked enough to start moving over the text into the website proper. The PR team and associated chaff like me should be the ones determining what is ready for publication, though of course help from you (like this list above) is gladly accepted. Anyway, we'll let you (the web people) know what material we have ready. Since it's in the wiki it'll be structured text already, so if you could make the pages work with that we can move quickly. The texts that will ready first will be the general information about the conference (press release and other information). Afterwards I think we should start running simple news items ("Christian Tismer will speak about stackless!") to make people excited. After a while we should have some forms ready and will move on to accepting submissions for abstracts and finally (pre) registrations. How does that sound? Thanks, Martijn From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Fri Feb 15 05:31:01 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:31:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Ok, back In-Reply-To: <20020215020503.GE13798@vet.uu.nl> References: <038001c1b5b4$bda236f0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> <20020215020503.GE13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 15 F=E9vrier 2002 03:05, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > Tom Deprez wrote: > [snip] > > > 1. Although I'm not used to ZPT, I'm in favor doing it this way... ar= e > > there people having objectives to ZPT? > > ZPT's fine with me, but no objections to DTML. Infrae (Kit and I :) hav= e > been switching our development from DTML to ZPT in the last few months > and we noticed getting the hang of it happened very quickly. NO idea, but the one that I also want to learn about ZPT > > 2. Are there people who are used at developing CSS? If so, is it poss= ible > > to make a quick one, which can be used during development and which o= ne > > contains most thingies (but doesn't have to be final). > > I can ask Kit here. I'll let you know tomorrow. > > > Could it be done before saterday? I would like to make a very prelimi= nary > > thing on which we than can build further. > > Up to you guys. :) > > > 3. I don't think the site has to be really eye-catching. The most > > important thing is: > > > > -all the needed must be there and it must be easely found. > Agreed. It just needs to look nice and clean. Exactely > > 5. We need to make entries for sure: > > > > * Where it takes place, how to get there, ... > > * Hotels, How to get to the congress. > > * Conference Schedules > > * Speakers > > * News section (really needed?) > > * Subscription section > > * Section to send the abstracts by email? > > * Sponsors > > * Organisators/ Contact Persons > By next week I expect some of our wiki pages will be cooked enough to > start moving over the text into the website proper.=20 Yes, much of this material already exist in the wiki > The PR team and > associated chaff like me should be the ones determining what is ready f= or > publication, though of course help from you (like this list above) is > gladly accepted. I did not find the PRteam in the wiki . I propose to be one of them. Agree =20 > Anyway, we'll let you (the web people) know what material we have ready= =2E > Since it's in the wiki it'll be structured text already, so if you coul= d > make the pages work with that we can move quickly. > > The texts that will ready first will be the general information about > the conference (press release and other information). Afterwards I thin= k > we should start running simple news items ("Christian Tismer will speak > about stackless!") to make people excited. After a while we should > have some forms ready and will move on to accepting submissions for > abstracts and finally (pre) registrations. > How does that sound? very well Please not that I'll be away for 3 days (not next to any computer) and th= e=20 then I'll be extremely busy on Tuesday and Wednesday with conferences, so= =20 I'll probably be back somehow only next thursday. Take care and work well. Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Feb 15 05:48:54 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:48:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Vendredi 15 F=E9vrier 2002 02:55, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > Martijn Faassen > > > > > > This all fits in with my theory that we can offend RMS freely if we > > > like. Now only if we could fit in the word 'communism' in there > > > somewhere to really offend ESR.. Perhaps 'socialism' will do. :) > > > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure out > > how to make a new Wiki Page). =20 very good idea. I have some contacts at the EU and besides I am in Brusse= ls.=20 We could coordinate this (publically through the list) and exchange the=20 contacts (privately with the SponsorTeam)=20 As I am ICT manager in a large administration, implied in some EU finance= d=20 projects, I plan to also try and get some money from there. > That should be good enough. Now that > > we have offended everybody, we had better do something to be inclusiv= e > > again. > Oh, right, I'd forgotten about the evil socialist government money! Yes, please let us remember that ! > Besides, Denis told us that the socialists are the main party in power = in > Charleroi, and they're sponsoring the venue already. Okay, we've got > ESR fully covered! (though he may say all the tax money we can > get back from the evil government is only good for everybody, but > that's a cop-out :) Just a note about something everyone doesn't knwo in the list: there is an REALLY increasing perception within the Belgian Socialist par= ty=20 that free software (and they insist on the freedom side they understand ,= not=20 caring about open source pragmatic approach they do not understand becaus= e=20 they are not in the IT field) is good for education and public=20 administration.=20 This, as far as I understood, was the key selling factor Denis used to ge= t=20 the CEME place and the whole committement by the city of Charleroi. I am afraid that should we forget that, would they not be pleased. For example, some people in the city of Charleroi are considering to star= t a=20 specific education program about free software, in order to educate peopl= e=20 and put them back to work in the IT field through free software. THis does NOT mean that accepting any OSI licence is not good for us (not= =20 everyone is as consciuous as the socialists) but it is needed to know I=20 suppose. > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Feb 15 05:55:22 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:55:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141212.g1ECCoGo001433@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020214190834.GD11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Le Jeudi 14 F=E9vrier 2002 20:08, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > Laura Creighton wrote: > [avoid the word 'Free' in press releases for marketing reasons] > > I think that this is a good point, and we'll attempt to avoid giving th= e > word 'Free' too prominent attention. OK > [snip] > > > > Just an idea: one approach that was adopted at the European COmmiss= ion > > > consists to speak about libre software and explain how this temr > > > relates to free and open-source. Could we use that formulation ? > > > > On the Wiki, yes, great wonderful. > > Okay, hereby I declare that we can also use the phrase 'Libre Software' > as an alternative for 'open source software' in some contexts. good (see my post of this morning regarding government money and socialis= m) > As was already said, please do set up a team for this, and run it toget= her > with Nicolas Pettiaux and whomever else is interested. See the teams pa= ge: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTeams OK for me Thanks, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Fri Feb 15 05:56:00 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 06:56:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] send out press release In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le Jeudi 14 F=E9vrier 2002 13:24, Nicolas Chauvat a =E9crit : > > I want to leave the Commission with the idea that the python communit= y > > is a great place to spend money. WHo is in charge of that, and > > what can we do to help? > > Open up a page on the wiki that sums up what you just said :-) good idea NicolasP --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - www.ael.be=20 From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 07:37:11 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:37:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: <20020215015214.GC13798@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013713370.3c6c09daa8d39@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215015214.GC13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <1013758631.3c6cbaa70be32@webmail.in-berlin.de> Martijn Faassen : > Note also that Mark Pratt has mentioned in the past he was interested > in organizing a Python event, so I'm really hoping he'd like to > contribute to EuroPython's organization. I know, but again, don't expect too much. Beehive is a purely commercial place following its own interests. I'd love to see them participate but after several chats with Mark I'm skeptical. Dinu From all@123piano.com Fri Feb 15 08:14:24 2002 From: all@123piano.com (Philippe Jadin) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:14:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc References: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214121959.E11748@carolo.net> <20020214185529.GB11765@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6CC360.3020808@123piano.com> I hade some spare time last night so I did a little layout, feel free to take inspiration from it : http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout01.gif http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout02.gif nothing fancy, maybe just a start... (vector file available if anyone is interested) It could easily be htmlified Philippe Martijn Faassen wrote: >Denis wrote: > >>Le Thu, Feb 14, 2002 at 08:36:43AM +0100, Dinu Gherman pianota: >> >>>Is anybody working on graphics material for EuroPython? >>>Logo, styles, etc? Is there a DesignTeam? >>> >>Since nothing is coming up to now, I've put one of our fellows >>on the matter. He will do something before the end of the day. >>(His name is Vincent Maton, he's now subscribed to the list too). >> > >We've now got a DesignTeam responsible for these issues. Anyone interested >should add their name to this page: > >http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/DesignTeam > >Regards, > >Martijn > From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 08:19:29 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:19:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <1013761169.3c6cc49180c1e@webmail.in-berlin.de> Nicolas Pettiaux : > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > > > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure > > > out how to make a new Wiki Page). > > very good idea. I have some contacts at the EU and besides I am in > Brussels. We could coordinate this (publically through the list) and > exchange the contacts (privately with the SponsorTeam) I'd love to see that happen, but without trying to dampen your enthusiasm: have you tried before to pull some money out of these bodies? I know people who did, and I know it is pretty tough (unless you want a few hundred million euros). The EU has a huge complex bureaucratic fund application system with many sources of money that you're almost un- able to spot without professional support and it will certainly give you only a quarter of what you need and mostly only a year *after* you need it. There are forms with deadlines and if you write one letter outside of some allowed field by mistake your application failed! What is maybe the most annoying of all: there is absolutely no way to predict when you will receive something, how much, or why you didn't get anything as the internal guidelines change every few months in very intransparent ways. Hope this doesn't sound too frustrated, but at least you should know about the challenges ahead... ;-) Regards, Dinu From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 08:34:03 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:34:03 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc In-Reply-To: <3C6CC360.3020808@123piano.com> Message-ID: >I hade some spare time last night so I did a little layout, feel free to >take inspiration from it : > >http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout01.gif >http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout02.gif Looks good... Are you working on a logo also? I have a designer which owes me a job, so she could work on a logo... Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 11:19:39 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:19:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >=20 > Le Vendredi 15 F=E9vrier 2002 02:55, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure o= ut > > > how to make a new Wiki Page). >=20 > very good idea. I have some contacts at the EU and besides I am in Brus= sels. > We could coordinate this (publically through the list) and exchange the > contacts (privately with the SponsorTeam) Indeed. Say, is there a lobby in the EU for OSS ? > Just a note about something everyone doesn't knwo in the list: >=20 > there is an REALLY increasing perception within the Belgian Socialist p= arty > that free software (and they insist on the freedom side they understand= , not > caring about open source pragmatic approach they do not understand beca= use > they are not in the IT field) is good for education and public > administration. OSI compliant have the "free" built-in... at least as far as money is concerned. What definition of "free" do they have in mind ? =20 > This, as far as I understood, was the key selling factor Denis used to = get > the CEME place and the whole committement by the city of Charleroi. >=20 > I am afraid that should we forget that, would they not be pleased. >=20 > For example, some people in the city of Charleroi are considering to st= art a > specific education program about free software, in order to educate peo= ple > and put them back to work in the IT field through free software. >=20 > THis does NOT mean that accepting any OSI licence is not good for us (n= ot > everyone is as consciuous as the socialists) but it is needed to know I > suppose. Let's educate them at the conference. Perhaps we could have a talk summarizing all the different models in the business track ?! --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk Fri Feb 15 11:30:23 2002 From: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Browning) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:30:23 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> References: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <80915079.1013772623@[192.168.1.2]> --On 15 February 2002 12:19 +0100 "M.-A. Lemburg" wrote: > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >> >> Le Vendredi 15 F=E9vrier 2002 02:55, Martijn Faassen a =E9crit : >> > Laura Creighton wrote: >> > > I am organising a plan to Get Government Money. (if I can figure = out >> > > how to make a new Wiki Page). >> >> very good idea. I have some contacts at the EU and besides I am in >> Brussels. We could coordinate this (publically through the list) and >> exchange the contacts (privately with the SponsorTeam) > > Indeed. Say, is there a lobby in the EU for OSS ? It's an interesting space to watch. Wasn't a French minister recently singing the praises of OSS? There are signs that the British Government's apparent love affair with Microsoft is starting to cool following the publication of two papers for consultation: http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=3D429 http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=3D430 (And yes, don't use Netscape 4 or you can't see the pages. Open government or what?) Paul -- The Library, Tyndall Avenue, Univ. of Bristol, Bristol, BS8 1TJ, UK E-mail: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk URL: http://www.bris.ac.uk/ From bh@intevation.de Fri Feb 15 12:05:19 2002 From: bh@intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog) Date: 15 Feb 2002 13:05:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <6qadubq7b4.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > > > very good idea. I have some contacts at the EU and besides I am in Brussels. > > We could coordinate this (publically through the list) and exchange the > > contacts (privately with the SponsorTeam) > > Indeed. Say, is there a lobby in the EU for OSS ? The EU is actively funding free software. See e.g. http://www.cordis.lu/ist/ka4/tesss/impl_free.htm#eighth : It is encouraged to consider implementation of middleware and tools as Open Source software. and In 2001, there was a dedicated action line "Free Software Development: Toward critical mass" with two objectives : (i) To foster in Europe a critical mass of development of free software released under GPL-compatible licenses. (ii) To make available European based support services for free software projects. Aynbody interested in EU + Free Software might want to go to FOSDEM in Brussels this weekend. There'll be a talk by Philippe Aigrain about this, IIRC. Bernhard -- Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ Sketch http://sketch.sourceforge.net/ MapIt! http://mapit.de/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Feb 15 12:11:36 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:11:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > OSI compliant have the "free" built-in... at least as far as money > is concerned. What definition of "free" do they have in mind ? I suppose it is free as in "Not to being tied with a particular vendor or supplier and ask anyone to modify it if you happen to need to". -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Feb 15 12:18:53 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:18:53 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > They seem to be called *backlinks*. And the trick is you sprinkle NicoToDo > strings around the web site and create a Wiki page of that name that may as > well remain empty. When you go to that page you will see NicoToDo in a > large font at the top. Click it and a personal todo list will magically > appear before your eyes. Your goal is to do your stuff, remove the NicoToDo > strings as you go and reduce that list to nothing. Thanks. So here is what I did : 1. add a list of people (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) 2. tried to reparent people names to that item, by I didn't have a login/password 3. took the items from ToBeDone and added SomeOneToDo tags in actual pages describing the thing. There are more tags to add though. Try www.europython.org/wiki/AndrewSmart and click on list of things to do for an example. You'll see that he has to provide a logo as his participation to the DesignTeam. Back to other work :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 12:32:25 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:32:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. References: Message-ID: <3C6CFFD9.F2F2BF6A@lemburg.com> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > > OSI compliant have the "free" built-in... at least as far as money > > is concerned. What definition of "free" do they have in mind ? > > I suppose it is free as in "Not to being tied with a particular vendor or > supplier and ask anyone to modify it if you happen to need to". And that's just what the term "Open Source" establishes: http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html Looks like some talk about this would be worth having :-) [they even have translations of the OSI definition in all EU languages, now that should convince them it's a good thing ;-)] -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Fri Feb 15 13:00:52 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:00:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <80915079.1013772623@[192.168.1.2]> References: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <80915079.1013772623@[192.168.1.2]> Message-ID: Paul Browning writes: > It's an interesting space to watch. Wasn't a French minister > recently singing the praises of OSS? I don't remember, but OpenSource is a topic of discussion in the French parliament, as it is in Germany, by the way. But it seems that all those activities remain at the stage of showing interest, without actuall adopting OpenSource programs for government/parliament work. > http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=429 > http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=430 > > (And yes, don't use Netscape 4 or you can't see the pages. > Open government or what?) I can read the PDF versions running Opera 5 under Linux. What's the problem with Netscape 4? Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 13:28:24 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:28:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation Message-ID: I'll get a german translation for the press release in the next hour. Since there have been changes from the time I catched it from the site I need to do a little editing. How can I see the diff beetween the two english versions? Hey, nice thing with the ToDoList :-) The logo is "under construction" :-)) Andrew From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Feb 15 13:30:25 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:30:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6CFFD9.F2F2BF6A@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > And that's just what the term "Open Source" establishes: > > http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.html > > Looks like some talk about this would be worth having :-) Yeah, but that's not what I meant, so I guess if we can't even settle on a definition ourselves, we'll need a talk/place to explain it cleanly to the outside world during the conference. Argh, I meant not to participate in that thread about license and somehow posted an answer anyway... back to work :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:30:25 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:30:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Ok, back In-Reply-To: References: <038001c1b5b4$bda236f0$358d84d5@skullsplitter> <20020215020503.GE13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020215133025.GA15389@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > > The PR team and > > associated chaff like me should be the ones determining what is ready for > > publication, though of course help from you (like this list above) is > > gladly accepted. > > I did not find the PRteam in the wiki . I propose to be one of them. I see you likely found them: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PublicRelationsTeam Regards, Martijn From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 13:31:37 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:31:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Message from Dinu Gherman of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:19:29 +0100." <1013761169.3c6cc49180c1e@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <1013761169.3c6cc49180c1e@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <200202151331.g1FDVcGo005097@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Yes. AB Strakt has lots of experience getting money out of such bodies. Jacob Hall=E9n had that as sort of a full time job for a few years before becoming one of the founders here. Some of the rest of us have done it before as well. One of the reasons we at AB Strakt are developing our product is to make this process _easier_ (EVENTUALLY -- don't ask for help now, our very first release is still months away, and the first target to organise is 'a small university' (i.e. ours), not 'everybody who want to get money from the Commission'). But that is our eventual target. We know all about the paperwork, the change = document tracking, and the like. The only difficulty is time. The Commission does not move quickly. I = like a years lead time between (I want the money) and (I start to get it). Sometimes that is not long enough. Also, nobody at AB Strakt has much in = the way of free time. I really wish you guys had told me sooner ... Laura= From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 13:34:48 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:34:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:31:37 +0100." <200202151331.g1FDVcGo005097@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <1013761169.3c6cc49180c1e@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151331.g1FDVcGo005097@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200202151334.g1FDYmGo005120@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Me: > The only difficulty is time. The Commission does not move quickly. I > like a years lead time between (I want the money) and (I start to get it). > Sometimes that is not long enough. Also, nobody at AB Strakt has much in > the way of free time. I really wish you guys had told me sooner ... That should be a year between 'wanting' and 'getting approval'. 'Getting the cash in the bank account' is something that takes even longer ... Laura From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:40:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:40:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020215134031.GB15389@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: [snip snip] > Just a note about something everyone doesn't knwo in the list: > > there is an REALLY increasing perception within the Belgian Socialist party > that free software (and they insist on the freedom side they understand , not > caring about open source pragmatic approach they do not understand because > they are not in the IT field) is good for education and public > administration. > > This, as far as I understood, was the key selling factor Denis used to get > the CEME place and the whole committement by the city of Charleroi. > > I am afraid that should we forget that, would they not be pleased. We won't forget it. We'll plaster 'Libre Software' over our website, I think. We can also provide links to Free Software in general, and use it a few times. So we'll have to do a careful balancing act between people scared by the word 'Free' and otherwise won't come, and the people who like the word Free. 'libre' is a good compromise for starters, though, as the meaning is clearer than the word 'free' in English. Anyway, I'm volunteering for this balancing act of offending (cough, pleasing) all parties in this equally. If anyone has concerns or arguments about the whole issue of free versus open, please contact me by private email so we can keep most of the discussion off the list. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:43:03 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:43:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ZOPE BBQ - beehieve contact / estimates of attendees In-Reply-To: <1013758631.3c6cbaa70be32@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013713370.3c6c09daa8d39@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215015214.GC13798@vet.uu.nl> <1013758631.3c6cbaa70be32@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020215134303.GC15389@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Martijn Faassen : > > > Note also that Mark Pratt has mentioned in the past he was interested > > in organizing a Python event, so I'm really hoping he'd like to > > contribute to EuroPython's organization. > > I know, but again, don't expect too much. Beehive is a purely > commercial place following its own interests. I'd love to see > them participate but after several chats with Mark I'm skeptical. I've contacted him and Beehive is interested in contributing to some extent, which is excellent news. Naturally their resources like any of ours are limited, but we weren't expecting them to do all the work in the first place so I'm not concerned. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:49:11 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:49:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Graphics, logos, styling, design, fonts, etc In-Reply-To: <3C6CC360.3020808@123piano.com> References: <1013672203.3c6b690b6aafa@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020214121959.E11748@carolo.net> <20020214185529.GB11765@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CC360.3020808@123piano.com> Message-ID: <20020215134911.GD15389@vet.uu.nl> Philippe Jadin wrote: > I hade some spare time last night so I did a little layout, feel free to > take inspiration from it : > > http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout01.gif > http://www.123piano.com/europython/layout02.gif > > nothing fancy, maybe just a start... Looks like a good start. I've added these links to the http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/WebTeam so they don't get lost. You guys should probably create some wiki pages to discuss these matters in more details, moving them off the WebTeam page. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:53:15 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:53:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020215135315.GE15389@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > OSI compliant have the "free" built-in... at least as far as money > is concerned. What definition of "free" do they have in mind ? I think we're talking in the 'free as in speech' sense here. The word 'libre' in French means this, they have another word for 'free as in beer' (gratis). In Dutch that's 'vrij' and 'gratis' respectively, and in German that would be 'frei' and 'gratis/umsonst'. But you likely know that better than I do. :) [snip] > Let's educate them at the conference. Perhaps we could have a talk > summarizing all the different models in the business track ?! Sounds good, let's please postpone the discussion on this so we have something left to talk about at the conference. ;) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 13:55:17 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:55:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215135517.GF15389@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > So here is what I did : > > 1. add a list of people (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) Neat! > 2. tried to reparent people names to that item, by I didn't have a > login/password If there are no disastrous consequences, I could make reparenting an operation anyone can do, I think. That sounds good? Thanks, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 14:01:10 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:01:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] need phone numbers etc for press release Message-ID: <20020215140110.GA15504@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, In order to finalize the press release, we need some additional phone numbers (or possibly swap around names). Currently for the UK we have names but no phone numbers: UK * Tim Couper, email: drtimcouper@yahoo.co.uk, tel: +44. * Andy Robinson, email: andy@reportlab.com , tel: +44. Are you two okay with having your name listed there, and if so would you please go in there and supply a phone number? Regards, Martijn From tim@2wave.net Fri Feb 15 14:09:52 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:09:52 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Re: need phone numbers etc for press release In-Reply-To: <20020215140110.GA15504@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020215140952.28189.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> I edited the wiki a couple of days ago. You'll see the updated entry in Press Release English Tim --- Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > In order to finalize the press release, we need some > additional > phone numbers (or possibly swap around names). > Currently for > the UK we have names but no phone numbers: > > UK > > * Tim Couper, email: drtimcouper@yahoo.co.uk, > tel: +44. > > * Andy Robinson, email: andy@reportlab.com , > tel: +44. > > Are you two okay with having your name listed there, > and if so would > you please go in there and supply a phone number? > > Regards, > > Martijn > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk Fri Feb 15 14:15:31 2002 From: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk (Paul Browning) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:15:31 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On 15 Feb 2002 14:00:52 +0100 Konrad Hinsen wrote: > Paul Browning writes: > > > It's an interesting space to watch. Wasn't a French minister > > recently singing the praises of OSS? > > I don't remember, but OpenSource is a topic of discussion in the > French parliament, as it is in Germany, by the way. But it seems that > all those activities remain at the stage of showing interest, without > actuall adopting OpenSource programs for government/parliament work. Viola! http://www.zope.com/News/PressReleases/Zope2-5-Jan28-2001 > > > http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=429 > > http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/rfc/rfc_document.asp?docnum=430 > > > > (And yes, don't use Netscape 4 or you can't see the pages. > > Open government or what?) > > I can read the PDF versions running Opera 5 under Linux. What's > the problem with Netscape 4? In Netscape 4.75 all I get is a largely white page ... but it does have a W3C logo top left so it least it is trying! Paul -- The Library, Tyndall Avenue, Univ. of Bristol, Bristol, BS8 1TJ, UK E-mail: paul.browning@bristol.ac.uk URL: http://www.bris.ac.uk/ From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 14:25:28 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:25:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:19:39 +0100." <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Do we want to call it the 'Python in Government and Business' Track then? When I was at the OReilly Open Source Convention in the USA 2 years ago, I met many Germans who were very happy that the German government had passed some law that required the government to use Open Source Solutions when available. Can I see some relevant documents about this and how it has worked out? German is ok, but I would really like some Swedish English or French ones if you have any. It would make a great business talk. The way you get a great business track is to figure out what you want to have said, and then commission the papers from the people who would say this best. Of course you have an open submitted process, and you will get a few real astonishing wonders that nobody thought of. This is gravy. It is _not_ like a scientific conference, where you never know what you are going to get because it depends on what people are willing to submit. (Actually sometimes you commission papers for them as well, but let's not discuss _this_ here and now.) Free accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? Laura From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Feb 15 14:30:49 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:30:49 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Re: need phone numbers etc for press release In-Reply-To: <20020215140952.28189.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > I edited the wiki a couple of days ago. You'll see the > updated entry in Press Release English I merged your changes and moved the text from PressRelease to PressReleaseEnglish, which is now the single working document aka "reference". Translations can start from there tomorrow morning as today is the deadline for the press release. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 14:41:13 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:41:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Your message of "15 Feb 2002 13:05:19 +0100." <6qadubq7b4.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <6qadubq7b4.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Message-ID: <200202151441.g1FEfDGo005321@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> >Bernhard Herzog: >Aynbody interested in EU + Free Software might want to go to FOSDEM in >Brussels this weekend. There'll be a talk by Philippe Aigrain about >this, IIRC. Do you know what it would take to get him to give this talk for us? Laura From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 14:46:37 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:46:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] german press release (Korrekturlesen), contacts Message-ID: Hi folks, the german translation is on the net. I'm currently working over it, correcting some spelling (the translator was no tekki). Need someone German to look over it, in an hour or two. Is it meaningful to double the list of contacts? I would like to have something like "include this page"... like it can be done with MoinMoin wiki's.... does Zwiki support something like this? Andrew From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 15:06:24 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:06:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message from Nicolas Chauvat of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:18:53 +0100." References: Message-ID: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I want to add an entry to (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) for Jacob Hall=E9n. It's coming out as Jacob Hall. How? Laura = From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 15:19:45 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:19:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished Message-ID: Hi folks, the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. Someone is going to read & correct this before sending it, please? Andrew From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 15:22:14 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:22:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> Laura Creighton : > I want to add an entry to > (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) > for Jacob Hall=E9n. It's coming out as Jacob Hall. How? You better don't use characters with diacritical marks as they tend not to come out as expected, like you've just ex- perienced... Dinu From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 15:25:58 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:25:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] I don't see anybody from Eastern Europe here. Message-ID: <200202151525.g1FFPw9M005524@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Who is working on outreach so they are not forgotten? A cheap conference is exactly what they are looking for, but they assume all conferences in the West are too expensive. We need hard numbers. Laura From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 15:27:11 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:27:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] logistics in Charleroi Message-ID: <200202151527.g1FFRBcj005540@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> A restaurant guide is always nice. I put that in the Wiki, but this is so that discussions are to take place in the mailing list. Laura From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 15:40:43 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:40:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> Quoting Andrew Smart : > the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. > Someone is going to read & correct this before sending it, > please? Done, mostly commas and hyphens... It's still not expressing clearly the followging: * who is the, somewhat magic, EuroPython Conf.Team? * how many participants are eyxpected? * is it Python/Zope 50/50 or are there various Zope "submeetings"? I hope this can be made slightly more consistent and clearer. Regards, Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman ................................................................ "If the Nuremberg laws were applied today, then every Post-War American president would have to be hanged." (Noam Chomsky) From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Fri Feb 15 15:40:36 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:40:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Andrew Smart" writes: > I'll get a german translation for the press release in the next hour. And I just posted one in Esperanto - can't hurt :-) Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 15:38:02 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:38:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message from Dinu Gherman of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:22:14 +0100." <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Laura Creighton : > = > > I want to add an entry to > > (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) > > for Jacob Hall=E9n. It's coming out as Jacob Hall. How? > = > You better don't use characters with diacritical marks as > they tend not to come out as expected, like you've just ex- > perienced... Arrgh. Hallen is Swedish for 'the hall'. Hall=E9n is Swedish for 'from the region named Halland'. They are pronounced differently. Grumble Grumble Grumble. Laura From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 15:44:20 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:44:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > Do we want to call it the 'Python in Government and Business' Track then? No. The government money issue is really part of the options you have for raising money for a project, start-up or event. It fits in nicely as talk, but shouldn't dominate it. > When I was at the OReilly Open Source Convention in the USA 2 years ago, > I met many Germans who were very happy that the German government had > passed some law that required the government to use Open Source > Solutions when available. Can I see some relevant documents about this > and how it has worked out? German is ok, but I would really like some > Swedish English or French ones if you have any. It would make a > great business talk. I don't remember such a law :-) There was some talk to at least consider using open source, but that's probably it. (If there were such a law the government wouldn't put up the question of whether or not to use open source software for the parliament.) Could be wrong though... > The way you get a great business track is to figure out what you want > to have said, and then commission the papers from the people who would > say this best. Of course you have an open submitted process, and you > will get a few real astonishing wonders that nobody thought of. This > is gravy. It is _not_ like a scientific conference, where you never > know what you are going to get because it depends on what people are > willing to submit. I don't think we can commission talks (I only know these under the name "invited talks" or "key notes"), simple because we can't offer anything much in return. > (Actually sometimes you commission papers for them > as well, but let's not discuss _this_ here and now.) Free > accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? I'm not even sure about the free accomodation part -- it all depends on the budget. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 15:47:24 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:47:24 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] I don't see anybody from Eastern Europe here. In-Reply-To: <200202151525.g1FFPw9M005524@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202151525.g1FFPw9M005524@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <1013788044.3c6d2d8c0a8c5@webmail.in-berlin.de> Quoting Laura Creighton : > Who is working on outreach so they are not forgotten? A cheap > conference > is exactly what they are looking for, but they assume all conferences > in > the West are too expensive. We need hard numbers. A difficult topic... Where they don't need visas anymore they need to show now considerable amounts of cash to pass the borders to Austria, say... which should be an effective means to compensate for their new travelling freedom... Dinu -- Dinu C. Gherman ................................................................ "The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people. " (Noam Chomsky) From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Fri Feb 15 15:53:38 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:53:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Andrew Smart" writes: > the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. Someone is g= oing > to read & correct this before sending it, please? '26. 28. Juni 2002' --> '26. - 28. Juni 2002' ausschliesslich der Python Programmiersprache --> ausschliesslich der Programmiersprache Python es an der Zeit eine=20 --> es an der Zeit, eine=20 k=F6nnen sich je nach Bedarf f=FCr Reden =FCber Python oder speziell Zope= bezogene Themen entscheiden. --> k=F6nnen sich je nach Interesse f=FCr Vortr=E4ge =FCber Python oder s= peziell Zope-bezogene Themen entscheiden. EuroZope Mitglieder Versammlung --> EuroZope- Mitgliederversammlung Zope Zusammenkunft --> Zope-Zusammenkunft EuroZope Stiftung --> EuroZope-Stiftung Zope Benutzer --> Zope-Benutzer gl=FCcklich dar=FCber Gastgeber=20 --> gl=FCcklich dar=FCber, Gastgeber=20 Python ist die f=FChrende objektorientiert Open Source Programmiersprache= =20 --> Python ist die f=FChrende objektorientierte Open Source-Programmiersp= rache=20 beinhaltet, bietet Python die ideale=20 --> beinhaltet, ist Python die ideale=20 Python Quellcodes --> Python-Quellcodes Zope Gesellschaft --> Zope Corporation (it's a name, right?) Open Source Produkt --> Open Source-Produkt So far for what I consider mistakes that should be corrected. I am not happy with the overall style of the text, which is very formal, in parts even legalese and/or old-fashioned, and in general looks like a translation from English (probably because it is). But it is defintely understandable. Konrad. --=20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------ From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 16:05:43 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:05:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C6D31D7.3B8B56E@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Quoting Andrew Smart : > > > the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. > > Someone is going to read & correct this before sending it, > > please? Thanks ! > Done, mostly commas and hyphens... > > It's still not expressing clearly the followging: > > * who is the, somewhat magic, EuroPython Conf.Team? > * how many participants are eyxpected? > * is it Python/Zope 50/50 or are there various Zope > "submeetings"? > > I hope this can be made slightly more consistent and > clearer. I've done some editing of the language. Now we should have a few more people run grammar checks on it then start getting the word next week. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 16:06:08 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:06:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation References: Message-ID: <3C6D31F0.36D035FA@lemburg.com> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > > "Andrew Smart" writes: > > > I'll get a german translation for the press release in the next hour. > > And I just posted one in Esperanto - can't hurt :-) Cool :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 16:08:14 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:08:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished References: Message-ID: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > > "Andrew Smart" writes: > > > the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. Someone is going > > to read & correct this before sending it, please? > > [proposed changes] Could you edit these changes into the Wiki ? Thanks. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 16:08:49 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:08:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:44:20 +0100." <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202151608.g1FG8nGo005693@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> >Marc-Andre Lemburg: > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > Do we want to call it the 'Python in Government and Business' Track then? > > No. > > The government money issue is really part of the options you have > for raising money for a project, start-up or event. It fits > in nicely as talk, but shouldn't dominate it. I was thinking more along the line of 'You are a government. You need a python open source solution'. They do for the same reason businesses do, but lots of people in government do not see much of a connection between what they do and what businesses do. If you title your track that way, Government people know to attend this one. [Marc-Andre doesn't know about any German law requring the government to use open source solutions] Hmm. I am remembering 'in health care' or some such. > > I don't think we can commission talks (I only know these under > the name "invited talks" or "key notes"), simple because we can't > offer anything much in return. (Then you commission them from people that were going anyway, and promise them nothing but the soapbox to stand on.) [snip] Laura Creighton From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Fri Feb 15 16:12:20 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:12:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> (mal@lemburg.com) References: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> > Could you edit these changes into the Wiki ? Thanks. Sure, but since this might take a while, I wonder what happens if someone else decides to make changes at the same time - is there some coordination in the Wiki itself, or do we need to agree "offline"? Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 16:16:48 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:16:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> References: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> Message-ID: <1013789808.3c6d3470e94d0@webmail.in-berlin.de> Konrad Hinsen : > > Could you edit these changes into the Wiki ? Thanks. > > Sure, but since this might take a while, I wonder what happens if > someone > else decides to make changes at the same time - is there some > coordination > in the Wiki itself, or do we need to agree "offline"? This is the Wiki-Nature: you think about it and find it's already done, like with most of your changes! The secret is to make only small deltas... (although a Moin-like diff would be nice...). Dinu From robin@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 16:20:48 2002 From: robin@reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:20:48 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: In article <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>, Laura Creighton writes >> Laura Creighton : >> >> > I want to add an entry to >> > (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) >> > for Jacob Hallén. It's coming out as Jacob Hall. How? >> >> You better don't use characters with diacritical marks as >> they tend not to come out as expected, like you've just ex- >> perienced... > >Arrgh. Hallen is Swedish for 'the hall'. Hallén is Swedish for >'from the region named Halland'. They are pronounced differently. >Grumble Grumble Grumble. > >Laura well according to my HTML book you could try é or é -- Robin Becker From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 16:31:05 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:31:05 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <1013790665.3c6d37c975004@webmail.in-berlin.de> Robin Becker : > well according to my HTML book you could try > > é or é That depends very more on what the specific Wiki implemen- tation allows inside the WikiNames... which was the whole point I think... Dinu From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Feb 15 16:33:51 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:33:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press release, german translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > And I just posted one in Esperanto - can't hurt :-) :-)) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From robin@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 16:37:34 2002 From: robin@reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:37:34 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3HFcGJAOlTb8EwGs@jessikat.demon.co.uk> In article , Robin Becker writes ...... >> >>Arrgh. Hallen is Swedish for 'the hall'. Hallén is Swedish for >>'from the region named Halland'. They are pronounced differently. >>Grumble Grumble Grumble. >> >>Laura >well according to my HTML book you could try > >é or é well it seems as though wiki's are a bit pedantic about converting &'s into & so any wiki experts able to say how you put real html into a wiki page? -- Robin Becker From robin@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 16:39:04 2002 From: robin@reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:39:04 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <1013790665.3c6d37c975004@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013790665.3c6d37c975004@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: In article <1013790665.3c6d37c975004@webmail.in-berlin.de>, Dinu Gherman writes >Robin Becker : > >> well according to my HTML book you could try >> >> é or é > >That depends very more on what the specific Wiki implemen- >tation allows inside the WikiNames... which was the whole >point I think... > >Dinu > sigh yes I just tried and it seems they don't have an escape into HTML easily. -- Robin Becker From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 16:36:39 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:36:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message from Robin Becker of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:20:48 GMT." References: <200202151506.g1FF6OGo005372@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <1013786534.3c6d27a62d570@webmail.in-berlin.de> <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > In article <200202151538.g1FFc2Go005599@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>, Laura > Creighton writes > >> Laura Creighton : > >> = > >> > I want to add an entry to > >> > (http://www.europython.org/wiki/ListOfPeople) > >> > for Jacob Hall=E9n. It's coming out as Jacob Hall. How? > >> = > >> You better don't use characters with diacritical marks as > >> they tend not to come out as expected, like you've just ex- > >> perienced... > > > >Arrgh. Hallen is Swedish for 'the hall'. Hall=E9n is Swedish for > >'from the region named Halland'. They are pronounced differently. > >Grumble Grumble Grumble. > > > >Laura > well according to my HTML book you could try > = > é or é > -- = > Robin Becker Alas, neither of them work. Laura From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 16:42:44 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:42:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come Message-ID: Maybe we should help ourselves and offer a possibility to register for official conference news and if the person is willing to come. Like - a official new mailing list (seperate from this organisational mailing list) Responsible: PublicRelationsteam - throu a web registration formular - the person can say O I will definitly attend (inform me about news and if avaible, entry prices) O I will probably attend (inform me about news and if avaible entry prices) O I am interested, inform me about news - additionally: O I need a cheap accomodation O I need a business/hotel accomodation With the later informations we can talk to hotels and get special discounts. Good Idea? I don't know how to make this with wiki...? Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 16:56:01 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:56:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come References: Message-ID: <3C6D3DA1.F1DFD639@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: > > Maybe we should help ourselves and offer a possibility to register for > official conference news and if the person is willing to come. Very good idea :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From andy@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 17:04:33 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:04:33 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] RE: need phone numbers etc for press release In-Reply-To: <20020215140110.GA15504@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Andy Robinson: +44-7976-355742 If you want a physical office instead of a human, you could also quote: ReportLab Europe Ltd. +44-20-8545-7271 I'll brief my colleagues. But my mobile phone gets answered for more hours each day, the office is just 10:00-18:00 - Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Martijn Faassen [mailto:faassen@vet.uu.nl] > Sent: 15 February 2002 14:01 > To: europython@python.org > Cc: drtimcouper@yahoo.co.uk; andy@reportlab.com > Subject: need phone numbers etc for press release > > > Hi there, > > In order to finalize the press release, we need some additional > phone numbers (or possibly swap around names). Currently for > the UK we have names but no phone numbers: > > UK > > * Tim Couper, email: drtimcouper@yahoo.co.uk, tel: +44. > > * Andy Robinson, email: andy@reportlab.com , tel: +44. > > Are you two okay with having your name listed there, and if so would > you please go in there and supply a phone number? > > Regards, > > Martijn > > From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 17:30:48 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:30:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Service - Travelling, Accomodation, Restaurants Message-ID: Added some new main entry points on the wiki front page - Service - TravelGuide - AccomodationGuide - RestaurantGuide I'll be fill in some informations about travelling from Germany. Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 16:45:24 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:45:24 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: Try

My Néme

Gives you My Néme Andrew From robin@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 17:44:29 2002 From: robin@reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:44:29 +0000 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: References: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: In article , Andrew Smart writes >Try > >

My Néme

> >Gives you > > My Néme > >Andrew > > ...not in my moin at least. I guess all the standard HTML characters are mangled so the html meaning get's lost. -- Robin Becker From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Fri Feb 15 17:48:26 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 15 Feb 2002 18:48:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <1013789808.3c6d3470e94d0@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> <1013789808.3c6d3470e94d0@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: Dinu Gherman writes: > This is the Wiki-Nature: you think about it and find it's already > done, like with most of your changes! The secret is to make > only small deltas... (although a Moin-like diff would be nice...). I tried this, but found this very inconvenient. When I edit a page, save it, and then take up editing again, I get the *old* page again. Perhaps this is my Web browser caching, but whatever the reason, it is not practical. Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 17:51:14 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:51:14 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <200202151741.g1FHftGo006515@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: Your wish is my command... :-) Did it with a HTML command :-) Is NOT a wiki link, but a hyperlink, and it's working -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Laura Creighton [mailto:lac@strakt.com] Gesendet: Freitag, 15. Februar 2002 18:42 An: Andrew Smart Betreff: Re: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses That doesn't work either. Its a problem with the header software. If you can get the accent in JacobHallén in the ListOfPeople, I would be most grateful. Thank you, Laura Creighton ps .. how are business tracks to be coordinated? From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 17:48:22 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:48:22 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message from Robin Becker of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 17:44:29 GMT." References: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200202151748.g1FHmMGo006544@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > In article , > Andrew Smart writes > >Try > > > >

My Néme

> > > >Gives you > > > > My N=E9me > > > >Andrew > > > > > ...not in my moin at least. I guess all the standard HTML characters are > mangled so the html meaning get's lost. > -- = That doesn't work in the Titles for ListOfPeople either, alas. Laura= From lac@strakt.com Fri Feb 15 17:50:50 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:50:50 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton of "Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:48:22 +0100." <200202151748.g1FHmMGo006544@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202151748.g1FHmMGo006544@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200202151750.g1FHooGo006583@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > > In article , > > Andrew Smart writes > > >Try > > > > > >

My Néme

> > > > > >Gives you > > > > > > My N=E9me > > > > > >Andrew > > > > > > > > ...not in my moin at least. I guess all the standard HTML characters a= re > > mangled so the html meaning get's lost. > > -- = > = > That doesn't work in the Titles for ListOfPeople either, alas. > = > Laura I was wrong. Andrew Smart fixed it. Now to read what he really did and learn something. Thank you Andrew Smart. Laura= From robin@reportlab.com Fri Feb 15 18:56:25 2002 From: robin@reportlab.com (Robin Becker) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:56:25 +0000 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] PressReleasePress contact addresses In-Reply-To: <200202151750.g1FHooGo006583@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202151636.g1FGadGo006228@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202151748.g1FHmMGo006544@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200202151750.g1FHooGo006583@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <1xg8bIAZnVb8Ewk3@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk> In article <200202151750.g1FHooGo006583@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>, Laura Creighton writes ...... > >I was wrong. Andrew Smart fixed it. Now to read what he really did and >learn something. Thank you Andrew Smart. > >Laura seems he used a direct
Jacob Hallén I suppose the zope wiki must be clever enough to leave it alone. -- Robin Becker From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 19:19:21 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 20:19:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Commissioning talks References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> <200202151608.g1FG8nGo005693@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6D5F39.52C78B4@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > >Marc-Andre Lemburg: > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > > > Do we want to call it the 'Python in Government and Business' Track then? > > > > No. > > > > The government money issue is really part of the options you have > > for raising money for a project, start-up or event. It fits > > in nicely as talk, but shouldn't dominate it. > > I was thinking more along the line of 'You are a government. You need > a python open source solution'. They do for the same reason businesses > do, but lots of people in government do not see much of a connection > between what they do and what businesses do. If you title your track > that way, Government people know to attend this one. The problem is that we could then just as well add churches, charities and other non-profits, etc. to the track title. I would rather like to keep it generic in a certain sense that separates it from the other tracks. The track's list of talks and subtitle will then provide the information you are asking for. > [Marc-Andre doesn't know about any German law requring the government to > use open source solutions] > > Hmm. I am remembering 'in health care' or some such. Could be; don't know. I do know that open source software, esp. Linux is used quite a bit in government agencies, but there's no general agreement on its usefulness, AFAIK. Most of their software still runs in classical mainframe based client/server or even direct 3270 mode. > > I don't think we can commission talks (I only know these under > > the name "invited talks" or "key notes"), simple because we can't > > offer anything much in return. > > (Then you commission them from people that were going anyway, and > promise them nothing but the soapbox to stand on.) Ok :-) ... then I would like you to talk about strategies of convincing government agencies and commissions (like the EU commission) about the positive effects of building IT strategies on top of open source platforms, Python in particular, of course. How many more talks can I commission to AB Strakt ? Here are some more ideas (provided there are any candidates out there who have experience in these areas): * Experience with Python in business projects - switching from (you name it) to Python: benefits, problems,... - training effort needed to get C++/Java programmers up and running in Python - prototyping in Python and then going to production with it: reduced costs, rewriting hot-spots in C, ... - planning a Python based project: comparing the required man power to a C++ or Java project, project phases, roll out, ... * Mentioning Python in front of customers / investors - pros/cons of doing so, providing good answers to common questions - handling FUD: what's Python ? where do I find programmers ? - modern programming: "we run this project mainly using the C++/Java interpreter pattern" - investement security: how hard would it be to have XYZ maintain the software ? what if I want feature ABC added in two years ? - enterprise integration: which interfaces are available ? how relyable are they ? - legalese: who can I sue if something goes wrong ? * Python on the job - selecting the right tools: which IDE, platform, GUI ? - designing a Python application: where to start, which method to use, ... - dependencies on third-party libs: do licenses pose a problem for commercial products ? - managing the code base: classes, modules and packages More to come... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Fri Feb 15 21:21:04 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:21:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] GermanTravelGuide Message-ID: Hi folks, just added a GermanTravelGuide to the net. Gives 2 links to travel informations, and hints about the way and the traveltime from 3 directions (Hannover, Köln/Colonge and Stuttgart), each with car and rail. Where is the nearest airport? Liege? Brüssel? I did it in German, since it is a GermanTravelGuide. Is that ok? Or should be held in english? Andrew From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:23:15 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:23:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: need phone numbers etc for press release In-Reply-To: <20020215140952.28189.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20020215140110.GA15504@vet.uu.nl> <20020215140952.28189.qmail@web14502.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20020215222315.GA17939@vet.uu.nl> Tim Couper wrote: > I edited the wiki a couple of days ago. You'll see the > updated entry in Press Release English Darn, I knew I shouldn've have left that press release english in there. I think (hope) the one we were editing was the one on the main page. I'll remove the press release English now after diffing it with the one on the main press release page.. Oh, wait, someone moved it already.. Looks like it's the right one. Still don't have Andy Robinson's phone number. Andy? Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:27:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:27:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > Free accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? Right now we have no money for free accomodation, so we can't offer that, and free conference entry needs to be discussed in the general discussion on budget. I'd like to offer speakers *something* at least; perhaps we can have a student rate which also applies to speakers. But before we start handing out anything that costs actual money as opposed to volunteer time, I'd like to have the budget situation a lot better than it is now. As right now it's pretty much absent; we haven't even decided completely yet which bank account to use. We haven't decided how to protect ourselves against the risk of going over budget, and in case we actually make money, we haven't decided what happens with that either. I'm at a loss on how to proceed here, and some advice would be good. Perhaps the smartest thing to do is start a special foundation to run the conference, but I'm not sure how easy/quickly we can do that. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:34:38 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:34:38 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Removing the 20,000 Message-ID: <20020215223438.GD17939@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, Since we've got so clue where the 20,000 figure of Zope developers came from, I've removed it from all press releases. Though it wasn't in the french one. And I can't really read Esperanto, but I deleted the 20,000 one anyway. If it was something about 20,000 leagues under the sea in that text, I apologize. :) Let's not throw around numbers when we can't back them up extremely well. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:39:39 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:39:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Quoting Andrew Smart : > > > the german press release is edited, layouted and finished. > > Someone is going to read & correct this before sending it, > > please? > > Done, mostly commas and hyphens... > > It's still not expressing clearly the followging: > > * who is the, somewhat magic, EuroPython Conf.Team? That's us. We're somewhat magic. :) Please note that the whole process was started when I just ad-hoc started mailing a bunch of people I knew about in the python and zope worlds whether they were interested in a conference. They were, and here we are. :) > * how many participants are eyxpected? 200-300, but possibly quite a bit more if we're lucky. I don't think there'll be less than 200. > * is it Python/Zope 50/50 or are there various Zope > "submeetings"? It's Python Python Python first, and there'll be a Zope track. That said, the Zope community in recent years in Europe has been somewhat more organized than the Python community, in that there were several meetings since 2000 with the same usual suspects present, and there's a also EuroZope foundation. I've been drawing on that community, which is why you see such a large dosage of Zopeisms. But it's generally been agreed that this is Euro*Python* (and also Zope). Python first. The Zopers will come in any case if we don't completely ignore Zope. > I hope this can be made slightly more consistent and > clearer. I was already trying, but apparently even the recent edits still failed in that regard. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:43:14 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:43:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6D2CD4.AC370FEC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020215224313.GF17939@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > I don't think we can commission talks (I only know these under > the name "invited talks" or "key notes"), simple because we can't > offer anything much in return. In general I don't think we have to worry about getting enough talks anyway. Well known Pythoneers are coming to us by themselves offering to do talks. In other cases, I just sent a single mail to someone and they were quite willing to do talks. This may be different on the business track, but even there I don't think we've got to worry too much either.. > > (Actually sometimes you commission papers for them > > as well, but let's not discuss _this_ here and now.) Free > > accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? > > I'm not even sure about the free accomodation part -- it all > depends on the budget. Right, free entrance we can discuss or alternatively a conference rate cut (IPC didn't even do that and still gets speakers though, but I suggest we do at the least a rate cut for speakers). Accommodation depends entirely on the budget, or possibly on whether the locals want to put up with them. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:45:21 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:45:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215224520.GG17939@vet.uu.nl> Konrad Hinsen wrote: [snip] > So far for what I consider mistakes that should be corrected. I am not > happy with the overall style of the text, which is very formal, in > parts even legalese and/or old-fashioned, and in general looks like a > translation from English (probably because it is). But it is defintely > understandable. Does the formal/legalese/old fashioned complaint also apply to the English text? Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:47:45 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:47:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> References: <3C6D326E.66C39BDD@lemburg.com> <200202151612.g1FGCK532592@chinon.cnrs-orleans.fr> Message-ID: <20020215224745.GH17939@vet.uu.nl> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > > Could you edit these changes into the Wiki ? Thanks. > > Sure, but since this might take a while, I wonder what happens if someone > else decides to make changes at the same time - is there some coordination > in the Wiki itself, or do we need to agree "offline"? I think you need to depend on luck. We may want to switch to MoinMoin which I think has a diff mechanism, but that doesn't come with our Zope install and I don't want to overburden Amaze with a lot of demands from us. :) MoinMoin isn't a Zope based wiki btw, but it is python based. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:51:14 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:51:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020215225114.GI17939@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > > Maybe we should help ourselves and offer a possibility to register for > official conference news and if the person is willing to come. > > Like > - a official new mailing list (seperate from this organisational mailing > list) > Responsible: PublicRelationsteam We can do this quickly so we need to do that first. Is anyone volunteering with the technology or should I go and beg various people? I think I can arrange something with python.org if desired. [web form with questionnaire] > With the later informations we can talk to hotels and get special discounts. I think we need to be careful with this (it all depends on how we ask the questions), and I think we can simply start with the above mailing list and see how many people subscribe. Later on we need a registration form, of course. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Fri Feb 15 22:54:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:54:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] RE: need phone numbers etc for press release In-Reply-To: References: <20020215140110.GA15504@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020215225404.GJ17939@vet.uu.nl> Andy Robinson wrote: > Andy Robinson: +44-7976-355742 > > If you want a physical office instead of a human, > you could also quote: > > ReportLab Europe Ltd. +44-20-8545-7271 > > I'll brief my colleagues. > But my mobile phone gets answered for more hours > each day, the office is just 10:00-18:00 Okay, then I've added the former one to the wiki in the English press release (the mobile one). The other phone numbers all have a (0) in them; I've not added it here but if someone know how that works for UK phone numbers feel free to correct it. Regards, Martijn From mal@lemburg.com Fri Feb 15 22:54:25 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 23:54:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6D91A1.40F5E772@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > Free accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? > > Right now we have no money for free accomodation, so we can't offer that, > and free conference entry needs to be discussed in the general discussion > on budget. I'd like to offer speakers *something* at least; perhaps > we can have a student rate which also applies to speakers. If at all possible, speakers should not have to pay for the conference -- they already put enough effort into preparing the talk. Since budgets are always about legal responsibility, you should start thinking about defining the conference legal entities. Since the conference team is officially cited at Charleroi, that's probably where you should incorporate the foundation. I hope that these things don't take too long. Donations will have to go to the foundation's bank account and we can't talk about budgets until the first donations start pouring in... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Feb 15 23:29:08 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:29:08 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Martijn Faassen : > > * who is the, somewhat magic, EuroPython Conf.Team? > > That's us. We're somewhat magic. :) > > Please note that the whole process was started when I just ad-hoc > started > mailing a bunch of people I knew about in the python and zope worlds > whether they were interested in a conference. They were, and here we > are. :) Well, yes, but how should somebody *outside* know that? To somebody new (press, sponsors, ...) "Conference Team" just doesn't mean much, I think. But I also have no better solution to offer. > > * how many participants are eyxpected? > > 200-300, but possibly quite a bit more if we're lucky. I don't think > there'll be less than 200. Right, but then it should be in the announcementm if only as a figure like 250-350. > It's Python Python Python first, and there'll be a Zope track. Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- ting". Dinu From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 07:21:15 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:21:15 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come In-Reply-To: <20020215225114.GI17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: >> With the later informations we can talk to hotels and get special discounts. Martijn wrote: >I think we need to be careful with this (it all depends on how we ask >the questions), and I think we can simply start with the above mailing list >and see how many people subscribe. Hmm... since we have the assistance from the Charleroi city people it's not so difficult to talk to the hotels. They are used to it, at least the business hotels. If we don't know how many people, ok, so lets talk about rates for at least 40 / 80 / 120 people. The people have to register themselfs in the hotel (and, of course, to the conference) early enough to get the discount. So, if we have OUR registration formular up and running, we'll see the count of students, business people etc. and can talk to the hotels. If there are 39 instead of 40 people than the hotel won't complain - they have at least 39 bookings, thats more than zero. Ok, if there is only ONE hotel in Chareloi then we have maybe a different situation :-) For the students I thoughted about two possibilites: a) "Jugendherbergen": (youth hostel ?) - don't know the word, but that are cheap accomodations - we should just reserve enough beds b) Families - with the support of the local city Who is from Chareloi, by the way? Maybe it's neccessary to send manpower to Chareloi from time to time to support... Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 07:41:20 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:41:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget, Sponsoring and Message-ID: Hmmm.... thinking about budget: >From my student times I know that one can raise more money if you go around and say "please" to as many companies as possible. I've not done this myself... I was surprised to see the amount of money, spend without any "logos", posters or so. Ok, it's dot-com-down-time now... Aren't there any webrings of python / zope users? I can offer sponsoring support for germany: my assistant can call companies, which officially use python and/or zope, and ask them very politly (we shut down your zope server remotly if not ;-) for a contribution. We have to find out this companies before, of course. And we have to make clear that the python conference is a nonprofit organisation, and the money is for the costs and for the students. Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 07:31:18 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 08:31:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Logo's Message-ID: The first draft of a logo is hopefully avaiable on Monday evening... But its coming from a professional designer and worth waiting. Hope so, at least :-) Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 08:05:20 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:05:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions Message-ID: I've created a BudgetTeam Page: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/BudgetTeam I've joined the team :-) I've put in a whole lot of todo's - roughly sorted in logical/chronological order Questions: - Have VIPs (Guido,...) to pay for accomodation? Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 08:42:40 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 09:42:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations & Monty Python Message-ID: Hmm... thinking about public relations and press... what about to contact someone from Monty Python and ask them if they support the EPC? And if so, maybe someone wants to come and see the neerds? And maybe, maybe someone would have fun to make an sketch? Besides the fun it would draw more attentions from the press "mysterical group of neerds invent with support of Monty Python a way to talk to directly to fanged rabbits via computers, your honor" :) Also we should inform our fellow humor pythoniasts (people, sites) about our event... Are there any contacts to Monty Python already? Ok, one way to scare the business people *laugh* , but one should not forget our roots... Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 16 10:48:02 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:48:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> Dinu Gherman wrote: > > Martijn Faassen : > > > It's Python Python Python first, and there'll be a Zope track. > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > ting". +1 Is there still time to change this ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Sat Feb 16 11:02:00 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:02:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 11:48:02AM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 11:48:02AM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Dinu Gherman wrote: > >=20 > > Martijn Faassen : > > > > > It's Python Python Python first, and there'll be a Zope track. > >=20 > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > > ting". >=20 > +1 No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". That would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone did agree not to remmove Zope from the title. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Sat Feb 16 11:43:13 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:43:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations & Monty Python In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Also we should inform our fellow humor pythoniasts (people, sites) about our > event... See http://www.europython.org/wiki/PressReleasePress for that. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Sat Feb 16 11:47:21 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:47:21 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > > ting". > > +1 Same here. Zope is written is Python. The conference is about Python and is an ideal place for Zope folks to get together. More people, more fun. But EuroPythonZope might confuse the outside world that will end up thinking Python is The Solution for building scientific web sites and Zope is the other name of an ASP-like programming language. See watta mean ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From sf@fermigier.com Sat Feb 16 12:25:16 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:25:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr>; from sf@fermigier.com on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: >=20 > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". That > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone did > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important the= re there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track dur= ing a Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 16 12:35:19 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:35:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". That > > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone did > > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important there > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track during a > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. How about this: """ Announcing: European Python Conference 2002 (EPC 2002) The First Major Python and Zope Event in Europe """ -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Sat Feb 16 12:39:56 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:39:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:35:19PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216133956.E71674@math.jussieu.fr> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:35:19PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > > > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". T= hat > > > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone = did > > > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. > >=20 > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important= there > > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track= during a > > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. >=20 > How about this: >=20 > """ > Announcing: >=20 > European Python Conference 2002=20 > (EPC 2002) >=20 > The First Major Python and Zope Event in Europe >=20 > """ Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'd much rather see: """ Announcing: European Python and Zope Conference 2002=20 (EPZC 2002) The First Major Python and Zope Event in Europe """ S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 16 12:43:25 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:43:25 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". That > > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone did > > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important there > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track during a > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. I can understand that Zopers would like to see Zope in the title, but the same is probably true for users of many other Python applications, such as for example Webware. By making Python more prominent, the benefits we achieve reach out to all Python applications equally. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Sat Feb 16 12:50:05 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:50:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:43:25PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216135005.A77046@math.jussieu.fr> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:43:25PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > > > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". T= hat > > > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone = did > > > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. > >=20 > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important= there > > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track= during a > > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. >=20 > I can understand that Zopers would like to see Zope in the > title, but the same is probably true for users of many other=20 > Python applications, such as for example Webware. By making=20 > Python more prominent, the benefits we achieve reach out to=20 > all Python applications equally. I don't believe removing "Zope" from the title will benefit in anyway to the Webware, eGenix, etc. people. I firmly believe, OTOH, that putting "Zope" in the title will bring more people and more attention (press, etc.) to the conference. Anyway, other people in this list will probably want to express their opi= nion before the title of the conference is changed. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Sat Feb 16 13:17:24 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 14:17:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> <20020216135005.A77046@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <3C6E5BE4.E796A38@lemburg.com> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 01:43:25PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > > > > > No, we already settled for "European Python and Zope Conference". That > > > > would make it "EPZC 2002" if you like, but I thought that everyone did > > > > agree not to remmove Zope from the title. > > > > > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important there > > > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track during a > > > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. > > > > I can understand that Zopers would like to see Zope in the > > title, but the same is probably true for users of many other > > Python applications, such as for example Webware. By making > > Python more prominent, the benefits we achieve reach out to > > all Python applications equally. > > I don't believe removing "Zope" from the title will benefit in anyway > to the Webware, eGenix, etc. people. Ah, that's not what I am after. The conference is *not* about products or companies. It's about Python. If I would want to reach out to potential customers, I'd go to the CeBIT, an O'Reilly conference, Internet World or some other major event. > I firmly believe, OTOH, that putting "Zope" in the title will bring more > people and more attention (press, etc.) to the conference. The website is already named EuroPython, the mailing list as well. The EuroPython.org web site mentions EuroPython as title of the conference. We have already made Zope very prominent in the conference press release and the conference information. This should generate enough awareness for potentially interested Zope users to come to the conference and perhaps learn more about what is actually doing all the work inside Zope. > Anyway, other people in this list will probably want to express their opinion > before the title of the conference is changed. Agreed. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 15:53:34 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 16:53:34 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <3C6E5BE4.E796A38@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Hi, are we going to have a war about the conference title? :-) Who's going to enlist me and what money/advantages do I get for doing so? *sarcastic*grin* We should not forget that beehieve is organizing the Zope BBQ in April, and they changed their planning so that there is no conflict between both events. As I understood it, the Zope BBQ ist Z*O*P*E only, and since there also many EuroZope people attending it's also a sort of europa-wide event. At least as I understood it. As well I understand the wish to draw as many people as possible, including as many ZOPEists as possible. If I compare the keynote-speakers (Zope BBQ: Jim Fulton, Python: Guido) I would say the EPC is a Python event, and Zope is well enough represented throu the subtitle, the tracks and the press release. IMHO, we should focus more on getting valueable press, announcements in mailing lists, links/stories on the front pages of popular web sites to draw people instead of discussing the title of the conference. Hups, I did it... I have choosen my side *grin* Andrew From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 16:34:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:34:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <3C6D91A1.40F5E772@lemburg.com> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> <3C6D91A1.40F5E772@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216163428.GA19302@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > > > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > Free accomodation and conference entry is all we can offer, correct? > > > > Right now we have no money for free accomodation, so we can't offer that, > > and free conference entry needs to be discussed in the general discussion > > on budget. I'd like to offer speakers *something* at least; perhaps > > we can have a student rate which also applies to speakers. > > If at all possible, speakers should not have to pay for the > conference -- they already put enough effort into preparing > the talk. Agreed. > Since budgets are always about legal responsibility, you should > start thinking about defining the conference legal entities. > > Since the conference team is officially cited at Charleroi, > that's probably where you should incorporate the foundation. > I hope that these things don't take too long. Donations will > have to go to the foundation's bank account and we can't talk > about budgets until the first donations start pouring in... Okay, I hope we can start something like this moving. If not in Charleroi, then somewhere else.. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 16:36:44 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:36:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > Martijn Faassen : > > > > * who is the, somewhat magic, EuroPython Conf.Team? > > > > That's us. We're somewhat magic. :) > > > > Please note that the whole process was started when I just ad-hoc > > started > > mailing a bunch of people I knew about in the python and zope worlds > > whether they were interested in a conference. They were, and here we > > are. :) > > Well, yes, but how should somebody *outside* know that? > To somebody new (press, sponsors, ...) "Conference Team" > just doesn't mean much, I think. But I also have no better > solution to offer. We offer a list of contacts at the bottom. Perhaps we should plaster 'conference team representatives' above it? :) > > > * how many participants are eyxpected? > > > > 200-300, but possibly quite a bit more if we're lucky. I don't think > > there'll be less than 200. > > Right, but then it should be in the announcementm if only as a > figure like 250-350. We should be announcing how many people will show up? Is that common practice? We don't know how many people will show up, and I don't want to announce stuff we don't know about. > > It's Python Python Python first, and there'll be a Zope track. > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > ting". Perhaps so, if you think that Python users who don't use Zope will be so put off by the current title that they won't show up. Regards, Martijn From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sat Feb 16 16:18:16 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 17:18:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Alternative Frontpage Message-ID: Hi, since I don't like scrolling the frontpage all the time I played around with table HTML tags. You can see the result in http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/AlternativeFrontPage Speaks anything against changing the frontpage according to my layout? I don't wanted to offend everbody by just changing it :-) I can do a bit more layouting (making every table cell blink in different colors and speeds, automatically popping up of different ad windows, stuff like that ;-) if wished... Andrew From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Sat Feb 16 18:46:29 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 19:46:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> Martijn Faassen : > > Well, yes, but how should somebody *outside* know that? > > To somebody new (press, sponsors, ...) "Conference Team" > > just doesn't mean much, I think. But I also have no better > > solution to offer. > > We offer a list of contacts at the bottom. Perhaps we should plaster > 'conference team representatives' above it? :) Yep, why not? > > Right, but then it should be in the announcementm if only as a > > figure like 250-350. > > We should be announcing how many people will show up? Is that common > practice? We don't know how many people will show up, and I don't want > to announce stuff we don't know about. Right, but we can say how much we expect, which will be useful information for sponsors and people writing about the event. nobody wants to mention an event with 50 lonely Pythonistas. > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > > ting". > > Perhaps so, if you think that Python users who don't use Zope will be > so put off by the current title that they won't show up. That's not quite the point. The real point is focus. Of course each Python application camp would like to appear in the title, and although many Zopers are involved in the organi- zation now as was likely the case for IPC8 in Wash., DC, (where I've been) with a huge Zope track, it was not named IPZC8 but just IPC8. How can we know there will be further "European Python *and* Zope" conferences? If we say "First EPZC" we do imply there will be more of them. I'm not sure this is very realistic. There could be easily two different conference branches, one for Python and one for Zope in Europe, which would be great for both camps. Worse even, look at it from a sponsor's point of view: why should O'Reilly pay anything for a conference that is 50% about the product of one particular company as expressed in its very title? Why isn't this particular company a main sponsor of the event? Mega-worse: why should O'Reilly pay for Guido's ticket, say, when he actually represents Zope corporation?? See what I mean? The more I think about it the more reasons I find to mention Zope only from the subtitle to the rest of the announcement, very prominently, but not in the title. It reduces all kinds of sources for confusion. Best regards, Dinu From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 22:58:03 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 23:58:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216225803.GA20840@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > """ > Announcing: > > European Python Conference 2002 > (EPC 2002) > > The First Major Python and Zope Event in Europe > > """ That has the disadvantage of not being true. :) There have been several Zope events in Europe in the past already, and there will be on in April in Berlin again. I don't want to get into a 'first' match. It might be more true for Python, but even then you can get into a debate. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:12:28 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:12:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216231228.GB20840@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > I can understand that Zopers would like to see Zope in the > title, but the same is probably true for users of many other > Python applications, such as for example Webware. By making > Python more prominent, the benefits we achieve reach out to > all Python applications equally. >From the start, the goal was to make Python more prominent. We succeeded; many people here are from the Python community only, and don't particularly care about Zope, and want to remove it from the long name of the conference. Zope use in Europe is a *lot* bigger and more organized than say, Webware use. From the start core members of the European Zope community have been involved in the organization of this conference -- the whole thing *started* in the Zope community. We're going to have a EuroZope Foundation member's meeting as well. I expect a significant proportion of the people showing up will show up primarily because of Zope. To attract Zope users, we want to say "__Python__ (and Zope)". I think we're saying Python loudly enough, and we should now be careful we don't completely get rid of the "(and Zope)" part. We're already calling the thing EuroPython, call our website www.europython.org, our mailinglist is called europython@python.org. The long name of the conference is "European Python and Zope conference 2002". So, do we really think we're going to scare away Python-only users with that title? I think we might scare away some Zope users if we make it less prominent. And lose a valuable opportunity to evangelize the wider world of Python to them, with which sometimes they're not very familiar. Plus we'll simply get fewer people showing up. :) That said, of course not everything hinges on the title, and we could alter the title not to have Zope and have a subtitle which does, even though we can't use the one proposed here (first major..). Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:17:53 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:17:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <3C6E5BE4.E796A38@lemburg.com> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E53ED.53DB5C47@lemburg.com> <20020216135005.A77046@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E5BE4.E796A38@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020216231753.GC20840@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Ah, that's not what I am after. The conference is *not* about > products or companies. It's about Python. It's about Python (and Zope). > If I would want to reach out to potential customers, I'd go > to the CeBIT, an O'Reilly conference, Internet World or some > other major event. Zope users aren't potential users of Python; they're already users of Python. > > I firmly believe, OTOH, that putting "Zope" in the title will bring more > > people and more attention (press, etc.) to the conference. > > The website is already named EuroPython, the mailing list > as well. The EuroPython.org web site mentions EuroPython as title > of the conference. Yup, that was a deliberate attempt by us in the Zope community to draw in the Python community and make it more prominent! As I just said in another mail. It's been my intention from the outset. I didn't realize we'd succeed so well that people think it is out of place in the title. :) Should we change the title to: European Python (and Zope) conference 2002? :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:26:20 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:26:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: [snip] > Worse even, look at it from a sponsor's point of view: why > should O'Reilly pay anything for a conference that is 50% > about the product of one particular company as expressed > in its very title? Zope is an open source project and a lot bigger than just one company. > Why isn't this particular company a main > sponsor of the event? Mega-worse: why should O'Reilly > pay for Guido's ticket, say, when he actually represents > Zope corporation?? See what I mean? No, I don't understand what you mean here. > The more I think about it the more reasons I find to mention > Zope only from the subtitle to the rest of the announcement, > very prominently, but not in the title. It reduces all kinds of > sources for confusion. What about the following attempt at a deal -- we'll remove the word Zope from the title and move it to a subtitle. In return, we'll get the agreement from the people pushing for this that we'll also all commit to doing sufficient PR to get the European Zope users to show up. Naturally the Zope team will do the brunt of this work, but I'd like to avoid getting any more complaints, and in fact some support. As an example, we may want to organize a Zope3 sprint and invite a prominent Zope architect over as a keynote speaker. That probably requires something from the conference budget. How does that sound? Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:30:55 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:30:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come In-Reply-To: References: <20020215225114.GI17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020216233055.GE20840@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > > > >> With the later informations we can talk to hotels and get special > discounts. > > Martijn wrote: > >I think we need to be careful with this (it all depends on how we ask > >the questions), and I think we can simply start with the above mailing list > >and see how many people subscribe. I think something went wrong with the context here. I was talking we should be careful doing pre-registrations and questionnaires before we actually have enough infrastructure set up to handle them. > Hmm... since we have the assistance from the Charleroi city people it's not > so difficult to talk to the hotels. They are used to it, at least the > business hotels. If we don't know how many people, ok, so lets talk about > rates for at least 40 / 80 / 120 people. The people have to register > themselfs in the hotel (and, of course, to the conference) early enough to > get the discount. Sure, that sounds like a good idea. I think looking into this is a good project. > So, if we have OUR registration formular up and running, we'll see the count > of students, business people etc. and can talk to the hotels. If there are > 39 instead of 40 people than the hotel won't complain - they have at least > 39 bookings, thats more than zero. Ok, if there is only ONE hotel in > Chareloi then we have maybe a different situation :-) Ah, right. That's a good point. But let's not make it the registration, as we don't know enough right now about the budget to handle registration. Let's just start a mailing list for those interested, along with a questionairre asking those interested for some more details about themselves (whether they're students, and such). > For the students I thoughted about two possibilites: > a) "Jugendherbergen": (youth hostel ?) - don't know the word, but that are > cheap accomodations - we should just reserve enough beds > b) Families - with the support of the local city > > Who is from Chareloi, by the way? Maybe it's neccessary to send manpower to > Chareloi from time to time to support... Denis Frere is the main contact for Charleroi. I think it certainly makes sense to have at least one other meeting at Charleroi before the actual conference, sometime in the following months. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:36:35 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:36:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Alternative Frontpage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020216233635.GF20840@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > Hi, > > since I don't like scrolling the frontpage all the time I played around with > table HTML tags. > > You can see the result in > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/AlternativeFrontPage > > Speaks anything against changing the frontpage according to my layout? I > don't wanted to offend everbody by just changing it :-) > > I can do a bit more layouting (making every table cell blink in different > colors and speeds, automatically popping up of different ad windows, stuff > like that ;-) if wished... Hm, this one makes me have to scroll horizontally if my browser is too small, and I prefer scrolling vertically. :) I myself prefer the original frontpage. It's also easier to edit than a HTML table. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Sat Feb 16 23:42:10 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 00:42:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020216234210.GA21278@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > I've created a BudgetTeam Page: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/BudgetTeam > > I've joined the team :-) I've joined too. No experience with this, but I felt I should at least be aware of what's going on there. > I've put in a whole lot of todo's - roughly sorted in logical/chronological > order > > Questions: > - Have VIPs (Guido,...) to pay for accomodation? Good question. :) Again this depends on our budget. I'm sure also some of the local Charleroi people will be able to provide some space at home for VIPs. Regards, Martijn From thomas@reulbach.com Sun Feb 17 01:17:33 2002 From: thomas@reulbach.com (Thomas Reulbach) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 02:17:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> It think keeping Python and Zope in the title is a good decision. Especially business and government people will be much more attracted if Zope is in the main title, too. I guess we should also avoid putting Zope in brackets which is just ugly. Python is already emphasized correctly by the sequence of terms. just my 2c Thomas From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sun Feb 17 03:00:13 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:00:13 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: <20020216234210.GA21278@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > Andrew Smart wrote: > > I've created a BudgetTeam Page: > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/BudgetTeam > > > > I've joined the team :-) Welcome :-) > I've joined too. No experience with this, but I felt I should at least > be aware of what's going on there. Oh, you'll see that budgeting and money is easy... if you have enough of it :-> Else is also easy... just be sure to be the first one running ;-) I love numbers and calculations, and I'm sure we have enough conference-experienced people around to help out. We just have to ensure enough manpower and intelligence for getting sponsors. Question: How we will handle the budget data/calculations? Is there any usable OpenSource spreadsheet avaiable? StarOffice? Andrew From nico@tekNico.net Sun Feb 17 07:35:50 2002 From: nico@tekNico.net (Nicola Larosa) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 08:35:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press release in Italian References: <3C6BCCE8.1080208@tekNico.net> <20020214163431.GE10856@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6F5D56.1090502@tekNico.net> [sent this yesterday, by mistake, to Martijn only] >> I added a page for the press release in Italian, I will translate it as >> soon as the deadline elapses (that was next Friday, right?). > Yup, tomorrow. Thanks! It is done. (As Atrus said.) It looks like there's some kind of bug in the Wiki, the "More Information" section towards the end keeps going on in bold after the title, and even more so in Italian than in English. Yes, I know we are bolder. ;^) Anyway, the stuff is there. -- "I was wondering if there's any kind of definitive nickname for Perl programmers, the way we call ourselves Pythonistas?" - Aahz Maruch "Masochists." - Daniel Klein Nicola Larosa - nico@tekNico.net From sf@fermigier.com Sun Feb 17 08:01:45 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:01:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020216225803.GA20840@vet.uu.nl>; from faassen@vet.uu.nl on Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 11:58:03PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> <20020216225803.GA20840@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020217090145.A75149@math.jussieu.fr> On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 11:58:03PM +0100, Martijn Faassen wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > """ > > Announcing: > >=20 > > European Python Conference 2002=20 > > (EPC 2002) > >=20 > > The First Major Python and Zope Event in Europe > >=20 > > """ >=20 > That has the disadvantage of not being true. :) But it *is* the first First Major Python *and* Zope Event. There has been major Python Events (in 1999) and Zope events (many) already, but no one with the double focus. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From js@aixtraware.de Sun Feb 17 09:20:59 2002 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:20:59 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <46580000.1013937659@js> Hi, I want to join too, how do I do that, just editing the Page ? --On Sonntag, Februar 17, 2002 04:00:13 +0100 Andrew Smart=20 wrote: >> Andrew Smart wrote: >> > I've created a BudgetTeam Page: >> http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/BudgetTeam >> > >> > I've joined the team :-) > > Welcome :-) > >> I've joined too. No experience with this, but I felt I should at least >> be aware of what's going on there. > > Oh, you'll see that budgeting and money is easy... if you have enough of > it :-> > Else is also easy... just be sure to be the first one running ;-) > > I love numbers and calculations, and I'm sure we have enough > conference-experienced people around to help out. We just have to ensure > enough manpower and intelligence for getting sponsors. > > Question: > > How we will handle the budget data/calculations? Is there any usable > OpenSource spreadsheet avaiable? StarOffice? > > Andrew > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen H=FCsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 Keyserver: http://germany.keyserver.net/en/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sun Feb 17 09:53:04 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:53:04 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: <46580000.1013937659@js> Message-ID: Yup. > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]Im > Auftrag von Joachim Schmitz > Gesendet: Sonntag, 17. Februar 2002 10:21 > An: Andrew Smart; Martijn Faassen > Cc: Europython; denis@aragne.com > Betreff: Re: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions > > > Hi, > > I want to join too, how do I do that, just editing the Page ? > > > --On Sonntag, Februar 17, 2002 04:00:13 +0100 Andrew Smart > wrote: > > >> Andrew Smart wrote: > >> > I've created a BudgetTeam Page: > >> http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/BudgetTeam > >> > > >> > I've joined the team :-) > > > > Welcome :-) > > > >> I've joined too. No experience with this, but I felt I should at least > >> be aware of what's going on there. > > > > Oh, you'll see that budgeting and money is easy... if you have enough of > > it :-> > > Else is also easy... just be sure to be the first one running ;-) > > > > I love numbers and calculations, and I'm sure we have enough > > conference-experienced people around to help out. We just have to ensure > > enough manpower and intelligence for getting sponsors. > > > > Question: > > > > How we will handle the budget data/calculations? Is there any usable > > OpenSource spreadsheet avaiable? StarOffice? > > > > Andrew > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > EuroPython mailing list > > EuroPython@python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > > Mit freundlichen Grüßen Joachim Schmitz > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > AixtraWare Ingenieurbüro für Internetanwendungen > Hüsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven > Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Key fingerprint = DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 > Keyserver: http://germany.keyserver.net/en/ > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From sf@fermigier.com Sun Feb 17 10:31:33 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 11:31:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award Message-ID: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> Hi, I just learnt that GvR won the FSF award this year (http://www.fsf.org/press/2002-02-16-FSF-Award.html). Should we add something abour it in the press release ? S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Sun Feb 17 11:25:57 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 17 Feb 2002 12:25:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020215224520.GG17939@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020215224520.GG17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Martijn Faassen writes: > Does the formal/legalese/old fashioned complaint also apply to the English > text? Not for my taste, but then I am not a native English speaker, so I'll leave that question to others. Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 17 13:04:11 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:04:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C6FAA4B.D90CB3CC@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > What about the following attempt at a deal -- we'll remove the word > Zope from the title and move it to a subtitle. In return, we'll get > the agreement from the people pushing for this that we'll also all > commit to doing sufficient PR to get the European Zope users to show up. > Naturally the Zope team will do the brunt of this work, but I'd like > to avoid getting any more complaints, and in fact some support. > As an example, we may want to organize a Zope3 sprint and invite a prominent > Zope architect over as a keynote speaker. That probably requires something > from the conference budget. > > How does that sound? +1 Actually, my proposal for the first few lines of the press release aimed for exactly this... just seems that I didn't get the wording right. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From sf@fermigier.com Sun Feb 17 13:12:06 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:12:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <3C6FAA4B.D90CB3CC@lemburg.com>; from mal@lemburg.com on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 02:04:11PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> <3C6FAA4B.D90CB3CC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020217141206.A2770@math.jussieu.fr> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 02:04:11PM +0100, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > >=20 > > What about the following attempt at a deal -- we'll remove the word > > Zope from the title and move it to a subtitle. In return, we'll get > > the agreement from the people pushing for this that we'll also all > > commit to doing sufficient PR to get the European Zope users to show = up. > > Naturally the Zope team will do the brunt of this work, but I'd like > > to avoid getting any more complaints, and in fact some support. > > As an example, we may want to organize a Zope3 sprint and invite a pr= ominent > > Zope architect over as a keynote speaker. That probably requires some= thing > > from the conference budget. > >=20 > > How does that sound? >=20 > +1 -1 S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From th.@gmx.de Sun Feb 17 13:16:19 2002 From: th.@gmx.de (Thorsten Horstmann) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:16:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] german press release (Korrekturlesen), contacts References: Message-ID: <3C6FAD23.FDA5E46E@gmx.de> Andrew Smart wrote: > the german translation is on the net. I'm currently working over it, > correcting some spelling (the translator was no tekki). Need someone German > to look over it, in an hour or two. mir wuerde "Vortragsreihe" besser als Uebersetzung von "Track" gefallen als "Veranstaltungsreihe". Ansonsten ist die Uebersetzung IMHO gut. Wann ist die deadline fuer Aenderungen? Gruss, -Thorsten From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Sun Feb 17 13:17:26 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:17:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <1013951846.3c6fad663726c@webmail.in-berlin.de> Martijn Faassen : > What about the following attempt at a deal -- we'll remove the word > Zope from the title and move it to a subtitle. [...] > > How does that sound? That's basically what I suggested. No need for being more radical than that. It would surprise me if the Zope camp would no longer come to the event because of that. +1 Dinu From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 17 13:46:20 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:46:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] german press release (Korrekturlesen), contacts References: <3C6FAD23.FDA5E46E@gmx.de> Message-ID: <3C6FB42C.38B10873@lemburg.com> [Please note: mailing list language is English] Thorsten Horstmann wrote: > > Andrew Smart wrote: > > the german translation is on the net. I'm currently working over it, > > correcting some spelling (the translator was no tekki). Need someone German > > to look over it, in an hour or two. > > mir wuerde "Vortragsreihe" besser als Uebersetzung von "Track" gefallen > als "Veranstaltungsreihe". Agreed. > Ansonsten ist die Uebersetzung IMHO gut. Wann ist die deadline fuer > Aenderungen? The deadline was last friday, but since the press release won't go out until early next week, changes are still possible. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lac@strakt.com Sun Feb 17 13:47:35 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:47:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: Message from Dinu Gherman of "Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:29:08 +0100." <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <200202171347.g1HDlZGo008587@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Dinu > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > ting". > > Dinu I agree. Laura From lac@strakt.com Sun Feb 17 14:23:16 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:23:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: Message from Stefane Fermigier of "Sat, 16 Feb 2002 13:25:16 +0100." <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <200202171423.g1HENGGo009054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important there > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track during a > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. > > S. In a sincere effort to understand - why is this important? Are their feelings already hurt for some reason? Are there lots of people who only use Zope and don't care about Python the language at all? Did this start out as a Zope Conference and we don't want to appear to be taking it over? Puzzled, Laura From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Sun Feb 17 14:21:51 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:21:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] german press release (Korrekturlesen), contacts In-Reply-To: <3C6FAD23.FDA5E46E@gmx.de> Message-ID: > Auftrag von Thorsten Horstmann > > mir wuerde "Vortragsreihe" besser als Uebersetzung von "Track" gefallen > als "Veranstaltungsreihe". Sound's good for me... "Veranstaltungsreihe" was just the first association and I was a bit in the hurry to get it finished last Friday. Andrew From lac@strakt.com Sun Feb 17 14:54:39 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:54:39 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew Smart" of "Sun, 17 Feb 2002 04:00:13 +0100." References: Message-ID: <200202171454.g1HEsdGo009677@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> StarOffice works. We use it here. But it is also _enormous_, too big to download. Anybody have anything smaller? Laura From lac@strakt.com Sun Feb 17 15:41:28 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:41:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EU grants Message-ID: <200202171541.g1HFfSIO010158@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I found out how to get one. http://www.cordis.lu/ist/calls/200104.htm WE ARE TOO LATE. They need 6 months notice. Otherwise we could have got up to half our costs paid. sorry about that, Laura Creighton From obenassy@free.fr Sun Feb 17 17:18:31 2002 From: obenassy@free.fr (Odile =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9nassy?=) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:18:31 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions References: <200202171454.g1HEsdGo009677@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6FE5E7.7923832B@free.fr> Laura Creighton a =E9crit : > = > StarOffice works. We use it here. But it is also _enormous_, too big = to > download. Anybody have anything smaller? > = I've heard good things about SIAG http://siag.nu -- = Odile B=E9nassy http://obenassy.free.fr/ Journ=E9es du Logiciel Libre dans l'Education = http://www.libresoftware-educ.org From sf@fermigier.com Sun Feb 17 17:27:12 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:27:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <200202171423.g1HENGGo009054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>; from lac@strakt.com on Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 03:23:16PM +0100 References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <200202171423.g1HENGGo009054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020217182712.B2770@math.jussieu.fr> On Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 03:23:16PM +0100, Laura Creighton wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 12:02:00PM +0100, Stefane Fermigier wrote: > >=20 > > One of the arguments would be that for many EuroZopers it's important= there > > there is a Zope conference labeled as such, and not just a Zope track= during a > > Python (or Linux, or whatever) Conference. > >=20 > > S. >=20 > In a sincere effort to understand - why is this important? Are their > feelings already hurt for some reason? Are there lots of people who > only use Zope and don't care about Python the language at all? Did > this start out as a Zope Conference and we don't want to appear to be > taking it over? =20 AFAICT, this started as a Python and Zope conference, back when we discussed it in Charleroi. We agreed that we put the emphasis on Python, but not to the point to not put Zope in the title. And to reply to your question: 1) I think there is a non neglegible proportion of Zope users who would use it anyway of it was written in Perl, Java, Ruby or CAML. There is also a number of business people who would even prefer that Zope was written in Java, and are very hard (most of the time, impossible) to convince that having Zope written in Python is the good choice. 2) Speaking for myself, my feelings would not be hurt, since I'm a fan of the Python language since way before Zope was even conceived, but I st= ill this the right decision, for the conference, is to put Zope in the title. S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From mal@lemburg.com Sun Feb 17 17:45:46 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:45:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EU grants References: <200202171541.g1HFfSIO010158@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C6FEC4A.3C0059DC@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I found out how to get one. > http://www.cordis.lu/ist/calls/200104.htm > WE ARE TOO LATE. They need 6 months notice. Otherwise we could have got > up to half our costs paid. Well, maybe could use this program for EPC 2003 ?! (Please upload the link to the wiki. Thanks.) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From js@aixtraware.de Sun Feb 17 18:14:28 2002 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:14:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020217182712.B2770@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <200202171423.g1HENGGo009054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020217182712.B2770@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <26390000.1013969668@js> --On Sonntag, Februar 17, 2002 18:27:12 +0100 Stefane Fermigier=20 wrote: > And to reply to your question: > > 1) I think there is a non neglegible proportion of Zope users who > would use it anyway of it was written in Perl, Java, Ruby or CAML. > There is also a number of business people who would even prefer that Zope > was written in Java, and are very hard (most of the time, impossible) > to convince that having Zope written in Python is the good choice. > > 2) Speaking for myself, my feelings would not be hurt, since I'm a fan > of the Python language since way before Zope was even conceived, but I > still this the right decision, for the conference, is to put Zope in the > title. > 100 % agreed !!! best regards Joachim Schmitz (1. chairman) ---------------------------------------------------------- EuroZope e.V. H=FCsgenstr. 33a D-52457 Aldenhoven Germany phone: +49-2464-8851 fax : +49-2464-905163 ---------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 key server: http://germany.keyserver.net/en/ From js@aixtraware.de Sun Feb 17 18:12:13 2002 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:12:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] government money, socialism et al. In-Reply-To: <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <25820000.1013969533@js> Hi Martijn, --On Freitag, Februar 15, 2002 23:27:31 +0100 Martijn Faassen=20 wrote: > > I'm at a loss on how to proceed here, and some advice would be good. > Perhaps the smartest thing to do is start a special foundation to > run the conference, but I'm not sure how easy/quickly we can do that. > I want to offer the help of EuroZope e.V. here. We have the logistics=20 already setup for this purpose. Also the EuroZope e.V. now definetly has a booth at the CeBit and we could=20 use this to promote Zope too. best regards Joachim Schmitz (1. chairman) ---------------------------------------------------------- EuroZope e.V. H=FCsgenstr. 33a D-52457 Aldenhoven Germany phone: +49-2464-8851 fax : +49-2464-905163 ---------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 key server: http://germany.keyserver.net/en/ From lac@strakt.com Sun Feb 17 19:25:36 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:25:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EU grants In-Reply-To: Message from "M.-A. Lemburg" of "Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:45:46 +0100." <3C6FEC4A.3C0059DC@lemburg.com> References: <200202171541.g1HFfSIO010158@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <3C6FEC4A.3C0059DC@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <200202171925.g1HJPaGo010521@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > > I found out how to get one. > > http://www.cordis.lu/ist/calls/200104.htm > > WE ARE TOO LATE. They need 6 months notice. Otherwise we could have got > > up to half our costs paid. > > Well, maybe could use this program for EPC 2003 ?! (Please upload > the link to the wiki. Thanks.) It's 5 months, not 6 - made a typo as I raced out the door. We are still too late. The link is now in the wiki. Laura From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 02:32:20 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 03:32:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account [Was: government money, socialism et al.] In-Reply-To: <25820000.1013969533@js> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> <25820000.1013969533@js> Message-ID: <20020218033220.E8743@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 07:12:13PM +0100, Joachim Schmitz pianota: > I want to offer the help of EuroZope e.V. here. We have the logistics > already setup for this purpose. Thanks, President, if you can accept Visa/AnyOther card payments, this could help, indeed. I also proposed (during the December meeting) to use P3B bank account. The first advantage I see is that I've access to it, and, as local contact, I could have to pay things before the conference happens. I can guarantee full view on the bank statements, we've nothing to hide. (Should I insist on the fact that P3B is a non-profit org. ?) So, if Joachim (well, I mean EuroZope) can receive the money and send it on P3B bank account, this could be the easiest way for the moment. Now, if many of you think it would be better to create a europython organization before the event, and a own EuroPython bank account, it's possible too. Though, I think it would take more time than we can spend. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From denis@aragne.com Mon Feb 18 03:57:28 2002 From: denis@aragne.com (Denis =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fr=E8re?=) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 04:57:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title (Press Release German finished) In-Reply-To: <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216163644.GB19302@vet.uu.nl> <1013885189.3c6ea9055b02f@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020216232620.GD20840@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020218045728.F8743@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 12:26:20AM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > > What about the following attempt at a deal -- we'll remove the word > Zope from the title and move it to a subtitle. In return, we'll get > the agreement from the people pushing for this that we'll also all > commit to doing sufficient PR to get the European Zope users to show up. > Naturally the Zope team will do the brunt of this work, but I'd like > to avoid getting any more complaints, and in fact some support. > As an example, we may want to organize a Zope3 sprint and invite a prominent > Zope architect over as a keynote speaker. That probably requires something > from the conference budget. > > How does that sound? +1 I've read our first mails again. Though the spark came from a EuroZope discussion, I answered : --------quoting me Fri, 16 Nov 2001 ------------------------------ > we've been thinking of organizing a Python Conference for months. -------------------------------------------------------------------- So, I feel consistent today. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:09:50 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:09:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] GermanTravelGuide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020218050950.G8743@carolo.net> Le Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 10:21:04PM +0100, Andrew Smart pianota: > Hi folks, >=20 > just added a GermanTravelGuide to the net. > Gives 2 links to travel informations, and hints about the way and the > traveltime from 3 directions (Hannover, K=F6ln/Colonge and Stuttgart), = each > with car and rail. Thanks. > Where is the nearest airport? Liege? Br=FCssel? Charleroi :-) But there are only specific lines covered essentially by Ryan Air. (See their website). For other provenances/destinations, Brussels is the nearest.=20 > I did it in German, since it is a GermanTravelGuide. Is that ok? Or sho= uld > be held in english? Both if you want. :-) One of us here is preparing a hotel list and we'll contact them to ask for group prices or any other advantage. Denis --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:14:30 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:14:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Removing the 20,000 In-Reply-To: <20020215223438.GD17939@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020215223438.GD17939@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020218051430.H8743@carolo.net> Le Fri, Feb 15, 2002 at 11:34:38PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > Though it wasn't in the french one. The french one will be reviewed against last english version. (Que les volontaires l=E8vent le doigt ...) Denis --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:21:48 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:21:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget, Sponsoring and In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020218052148.I8743@carolo.net> Le Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 08:41:20AM +0100, Andrew Smart pianota: > I can offer sponsoring support for germany: my assistant can call companies, > which officially use python and/or zope, and ask them very politly (we shut > down your zope server remotly if not ;-) for a contribution. That shouldn't hurt. :-) > We have to find out this companies before, of course. And we have to make > clear that the python conference is a nonprofit organisation, Of course, it's a non-profit organization. > and the money is for the costs and for the students. Should there be money left ? If so, it could be funds for the next conference, too. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:43:03 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:43:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come In-Reply-To: <20020216233055.GE20840@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020215225114.GI17939@vet.uu.nl> <20020216233055.GE20840@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020218054303.J8743@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 12:30:55AM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > [Hotels and such] As I told in an another mail : we started a list. We need some time to contact them. > Let's just start a mailing list for those interested, along with > a questionairre asking those interested for some more details about > themselves (whether they're students, and such). And if people are willing to help, they could answer a lot more questions : - do they wish organized transportation from the hotel to the conference point ? - would they like evening social events and if yes, which kind ? - ... and perhaps a last one too : - what are they willing to pay for such a conference. > Denis Frere is the main contact for Charleroi. I think it certainly > makes sense to have at least one other meeting at Charleroi before > the actual conference, sometime in the following months. You're always welcome, of course. We could settle a date. Not too soon so that we have more data to discuss. Not too late so that we have time to correct wrong things. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:50:41 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:50:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award In-Reply-To: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> References: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 11:31:33AM +0100, Stefane Fermigier pianota: > I just learnt that GvR won the FSF award this year > (http://www.fsf.org/press/2002-02-16-FSF-Award.html). Yes. I've been spending my whole week-end at FOSDEM and I missed him ! Anyway, got a few good contacts there. > Should we add something abour it in the press release ? I would personnally be pleased. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 04:57:48 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 05:57:48 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: <200202171454.g1HEsdGo009677@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200202171454.g1HEsdGo009677@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020218055748.L8743@carolo.net> Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 03:54:39PM +0100, Laura Creighton pianota: > StarOffice works. We use it here. But it is also _enormous_ I do think too it's not worth installing such a monster. > Anybody have anything smaller? Plain text and some python scripts ? Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Feb 18 07:20:18 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:20:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award In-Reply-To: <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> References: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <1014016818.3c70ab3285e43@webmail.in-berlin.de> > Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > > > I just learnt that GvR won the FSF award this year > > (http://www.fsf.org/press/2002-02-16-FSF-Award.html). [...] > > Should we add something abour it in the press release ? Sure, why not? Something like moving from: """The EuroPython Conference Team is proud to announce that one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the creator of Python""" to : """The EuroPython Conference Team is proud to announce that one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the creator of Python and winner of the FSF Award for the Ad- vancement of Free Software 2001!""" perhaps? Dinu From marc@msys.ch Mon Feb 18 09:07:00 2002 From: marc@msys.ch (Marc Balmer) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:07:00 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction / Paper proposal Message-ID: Hello! I am new to this list, and I am a bit lost in then EuroPython "Information Jungle".. ;-) I read through some mailings in the archive, but I seem not the find the proper place to propose a paper. My proposal is for the "Python in the Real World"-Track and is entitled "Building an IT-Architecture for Distributet, cross-platform, enterprise applications using Python, CORBA and wxWindows". It is primariliy the result of a research we have done for a customer, so it has a focus on practiability. If such a speech is of interest, please let me know how I could submit details (Abstract, Bio etc.) and where I can find more Information about EuroPython. Regards, Marc -- Marc Balmer, Micro Systems, Kannenfeldstrasse 32, CH-4056 Basel Tel +41 61 383 05 10, Fax +41 61 383 05 12, http://www.msys.ch/ From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Mon Feb 18 10:20:11 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:20:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction / Paper proposal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Marc Balmer writes: > My proposal is for the "Python in the Real World"-Track and is What is the "real world"? And what are the other worlds? Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 18 10:44:29 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:44:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction / Paper proposal References: Message-ID: <3C70DB0D.543F2590@lemburg.com> Marc Balmer wrote: > > Hello! > > I am new to this list, and I am a bit lost in then EuroPython > "Information Jungle".. ;-) > > I read through some mailings in the archive, but I seem not > the find the proper place to propose a paper. You already made the correct first move ... post the proposal to this list. In general, I think it's ok to either post to this list or contact the track champions directly. > My proposal is for the "Python in the Real World"-Track and is > entitled "Building an IT-Architecture for Distributet, cross-platform, > enterprise applications using Python, CORBA and wxWindows". > > It is primariliy the result of a research we have done for a customer, > so it has a focus on practiability. > > If such a speech is of interest, please let me know how I could > submit details (Abstract, Bio etc.) and where I can find more > Information about EuroPython. Please edit a short description of the talk under "Ideas" into the track wiki at: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PythonInBusinessTrack You should include a short description and your contact details, so that we can follow up. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 18 10:49:10 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:49:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction / Paper proposal References: Message-ID: <3C70DC26.BBF8BC2F@lemburg.com> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > > Marc Balmer writes: > > > My proposal is for the "Python in the Real World"-Track and is > > What is the "real world"? And what are the other worlds? The track is called "Python in Business" now. There are also other tracks which cover other aspects of the Real World :-) Perhaps you can volunteer as track champion for the "Python in Science" track ?! http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From burt@dfki.de Mon Feb 18 11:27:22 2002 From: burt@dfki.de (Alastair Burt) Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:27:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference Title In-Reply-To: <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: Dinu Gherman writes: > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and=20 > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing=20 > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > ting". What happened to the good old tradition of naming conferences after tins of meat? I think the conference should obviously be called "EUROSPAM 1", which does not have Zope or Python in the title. Just-trying-to-be-constructive-ly yours, Alastair --=20 --- ---- Alastair Burt German Centre for AI (DFKI), Stuhlsatzenhausweg 3 Saarbr=FCcken 66123, Germany=20=09=09=09=09=09=09 Email: burt@dfki.de Tel: +49 681 302 2565 Fax: +49 681 302 2235 From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Mon Feb 18 12:09:15 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:09:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Conference Title In-Reply-To: References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <1014034155.3c70eeeb77de2@webmail.in-berlin.de> Alastair Burt : > Dinu Gherman writes: > > > Good, but then I see an inconsistency between "EuroPython" > > and "European Python and Zope Conference". Ideally, I feel > > like it should be "European Python Conference 2002" and > > "EPC 2002" (like IPC10), with some subtitle emphasizing > > Zope like "The first Major European Python and Zope Mee- > > ting". > > What happened to the good old tradition of naming conferences after > tins of meat? I think the conference should obviously be called > "EUROSPAM 1", which does not have Zope or Python in the title. The tradition does likely still exist, but I guess the general movement is toward getting more "market share" and, hence, appearing to be less of a cult movement to the "other folks" is more of an advantage. Apart from that, I'd prefer FOIE-GRAS I... ;-) Dinu From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 16:31:01 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:31:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> Message-ID: <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> Thomas Reulbach wrote: > It think keeping Python and Zope in the title is a good decision. > Especially business and government people will be much more attracted if > Zope is in the main title, too. I guess we should also avoid putting Zope > in brackets which is just ugly. Python is already emphasized correctly by > the sequence of terms. > just my 2c That was my original intent too. What do others think? Get rid of Zope in the title or keep it there? Those who have spoken up already I'll count already, so no need to reply to this again. I'd just like to test the waters on this. Regards, Martijn From lac@strakt.com Mon Feb 18 16:33:42 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:33:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:31:01 +0100." <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202181633.g1IGXhGo012970@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I think the time to fuss about the title was before you made your press release. Now there are more important fish to fry. I cannot raise money that is supposed to be sent to somebody's private bank account. People around here will simply giggle. Laura Creighton From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 16:38:12 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:38:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award In-Reply-To: <1014016818.3c70ab3285e43@webmail.in-berlin.de> References: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> <1014016818.3c70ab3285e43@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020218163812.GB27059@vet.uu.nl> Dinu Gherman wrote: > """The EuroPython Conference Team is proud to announce that > one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the > creator of Python and winner of the FSF Award for the Ad- > vancement of Free Software 2001!""" As long as Laura doesn't think it will scare away business people afraid of the word 'Free'. I think 'the creator of Python' is more than enough praise already, though, for a Python conference. :) Regards, Martijn From lac@strakt.com Mon Feb 18 16:42:36 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:42:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:38:12 +0100." <20020218163812.GB27059@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> <1014016818.3c70ab3285e43@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020218163812.GB27059@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202181642.g1IGgaGo013012@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Dinu Gherman wrote: > > """The EuroPython Conference Team is proud to announce that > > one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the > > creator of Python and winner of the FSF Award for the Ad- > > vancement of Free Software 2001!""" > > As long as Laura doesn't think it will scare away business people > afraid of the word 'Free'. > > I think 'the creator of Python' is more than enough praise already, > though, for a Python conference. :) It will play better if you say the Free Software Foundation's Award for the Advancement of Free Software. The people who have never heard of the Free Software Foundation will know that 'it is an official thing made by an official body (or at least an official sounding body)' before their brain makes the connection to 'hobby', and they decide to stay home. Laura From marc@msys.ch Mon Feb 18 16:58:44 2002 From: marc@msys.ch (Marc Balmer) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 17:58:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title In-Reply-To: <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Am Montag den, 18. Februar 2002, um 17:31, schrieb Martijn Faassen: > That was my original intent too. What do others think? Get rid of Zope > in the title or keep it there? Those who have spoken up already > I'll count already, so no need to reply to this again. I'd just like to > test > the waters on this. I vote vor "EuroPython", sans Zope in the title. - mb -- Marc Balmer, Micro Systems, Kannenfeldstrasse 32, CH-4056 Basel Tel +41 61 383 05 10, Fax +41 61 383 05 12, http://www.msys.ch/ From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Mon Feb 18 17:02:46 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:02:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title In-Reply-To: <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: Martijn Faassen writes: > That was my original intent too. What do others think? Get rid of Zope I have strictly no opinion on this. I don't think we'll have more or less participants either way, so just throw a coin and let's find an end to this discussion. Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mal@lemburg.com Mon Feb 18 17:32:48 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 18:32:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Getting incorporated... References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> <200202181633.g1IGXhGo012970@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <3C713AC0.841DF65@lemburg.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > > I cannot raise money > that is supposed to be sent to somebody's private bank account. People > around here will simply giggle. That's right; the budget team should get this done ASAP. Don't know what you have to do in Belgium or The Netherlands to setup a foundation, but it shouldn't be all that hard. Just one thing: please don't call it "European Python Software Foundation", because the PSF might want to use this name for its own purposes. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mvm@brutele.be Mon Feb 18 22:24:13 2002 From: mvm@brutele.be (vincent) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:24:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... Message-ID: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Hi everybody, My name is vincent and I'm a Web Designer. SO, Denis ask me to prepare a simple layout for the internet Euro Python web site, Ok I did it and this the model, see it @ : http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython What do you think about ??? Hope to enjoy yourself ... Vincent. From srichter@cbu.edu Mon Feb 18 22:38:43 2002 From: srichter@cbu.edu (Stephan Richter) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 16:38:43 -0600 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020218163739.01a93918@mercury-1.cbu.edu> At 11:24 PM 2/18/2002 +0100, vincent wrote: >Hi everybody, > >My name is vincent and I'm a Web Designer. > >SO, Denis ask me to prepare a simple layout for the internet Euro Python web >site, >Ok I did it and this the model, see it @ : > >http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython > >What do you think about ??? > >Hope to enjoy yourself ... So, it is decided that Zope will not appear in the conference name? I though the conference was named "EuroPython and EuroZope Conference"? Regards, Stephan -- Stephan Richter CBU - Physics and Chemistry Student Web2k - Web Design/Development & Technical Project Management From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:45:27 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:45:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release German finished In-Reply-To: <20020217090145.A75149@math.jussieu.fr> References: <1013787643.3c6d2bfb3e056@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020215223939.GE17939@vet.uu.nl> <1013815748.3c6d99c45f86d@webmail.in-berlin.de> <3C6E38E2.6454D1FC@lemburg.com> <20020216120200.A71674@math.jussieu.fr> <20020216132516.C71674@math.jussieu.fr> <3C6E5207.BFEF03F5@lemburg.com> <20020216225803.GA20840@vet.uu.nl> <20020217090145.A75149@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: <20020218224527.GA28444@vet.uu.nl> Stefane Fermigier wrote: > > That has the disadvantage of not being true. :) > > But it *is* the first First Major Python *and* Zope Event. > > There has been major Python Events (in 1999) and Zope events (many) > already, but no one with the double focus. I realize that, but no everybody is going to read that 'and' as a boolean one -- natural language leaves open various other competing interpretation, and we're not going to risk that. We'll stay away from the word 'first' where it can possibly be misinterpreted. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:47:43 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:47:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Public Relations, Registration of the people willing to come In-Reply-To: <20020218054303.J8743@carolo.net> References: <20020215225114.GI17939@vet.uu.nl> <20020216233055.GE20840@vet.uu.nl> <20020218054303.J8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020218224743.GB28444@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > You're always welcome, of course. Great! :) > We could settle a date. Not too soon so that we have more data to > discuss. Not too late so that we have time to correct wrong things. I'll open a wiki page so we don't lose track of this too quickly. I won't put any dates on it yet, just that we want to plan a kind of meeting. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:51:23 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:51:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget, Sponsoring and In-Reply-To: <20020218052148.I8743@carolo.net> References: <20020218052148.I8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020218225123.GC28444@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > Le Sat, Feb 16, 2002 at 08:41:20AM +0100, Andrew Smart pianota: > > I can offer sponsoring support for germany: my assistant can call companies, > > which officially use python and/or zope, and ask them very politly (we shut > > down your zope server remotly if not ;-) for a contribution. > > That shouldn't hurt. :-) > > > We have to find out this companies before, of course. And we have to make > > clear that the python conference is a nonprofit organisation, > > Of course, it's a non-profit organization. > > > and the money is for the costs and for the students. > > Should there be money left ? > If so, it could be funds for the next conference, too. This again indicates the need we need some EuroPython organization, (or a EuroPython conference organization in particular doing only the conference(s)), to manage this money and to bear the risk. We don't intend to make money with the conference, but we don't have to go spend all the money either in case it should make a profit. I think having an organization for this would be the best thing, but I don't know enough about the legal matters to accurately comment. We do seem to have others who can, though, so I'll leave that up to them. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:52:57 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:52:57 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: <20020218055748.L8743@carolo.net> References: <200202171454.g1HEsdGo009677@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020218055748.L8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020218225257.GD28444@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: > Le Sun, Feb 17, 2002 at 03:54:39PM +0100, Laura Creighton pianota: > > StarOffice works. We use it here. But it is also _enormous_ > > I do think too it's not worth installing such a monster. > > > Anybody have anything smaller? > > Plain text and some python scripts ? There's gnumeric, though that may be difficult to download and install too. I use Debian and it's part of debian unstable, so for me it's easy. Star Office we can deal with here at Infrae too, so not a big problem. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:56:59 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:56:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Conference title In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.1.20020217020757.00a06830@pop.puretec.de> <20020218163101.GA27059@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020218225659.GE28444@vet.uu.nl> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > Martijn Faassen writes: > > > That was my original intent too. What do others think? Get rid of Zope > > I have strictly no opinion on this. I don't think we'll have more or > less participants either way, so just throw a coin and let's find an > end to this discussion. I've considered matters and threw a coin in my head and we'll keep the title as it is, with Zope in there. The short title remains EuroPython, and the general policy remains the same; we'll focus on Python but won't neglect the Zope side. If we are to organize another conference next year we can reevaluate the issue with more data. I hope that this closes the discussion. Now on to the money matters. If we're to start a EuroPython Foundation, what do we do and who does it? What are the options? What's easiest? Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 22:57:51 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:57:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] FSF award In-Reply-To: <200202181642.g1IGgaGo013012@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20020217113133.A76337@math.jussieu.fr> <20020218055041.K8743@carolo.net> <1014016818.3c70ab3285e43@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020218163812.GB27059@vet.uu.nl> <200202181642.g1IGgaGo013012@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20020218225751.GF28444@vet.uu.nl> Laura Creighton wrote: > > Dinu Gherman wrote: > > > """The EuroPython Conference Team is proud to announce that > > > one of the keynote speakers will be Guido van Rossum, the > > > creator of Python and winner of the FSF Award for the Ad- > > > vancement of Free Software 2001!""" > > > > As long as Laura doesn't think it will scare away business people > > afraid of the word 'Free'. > > > > I think 'the creator of Python' is more than enough praise already, > > though, for a Python conference. :) > > It will play better if you say the Free Software Foundation's Award for > the Advancement of Free Software. The people who have never heard > of the Free Software Foundation will know that 'it is an official > thing made by an official body (or at least an official sounding body)' > before their brain makes the connection to 'hobby', and they decide to > stay home. Perhaps we should put it in the 'Python' description then. Though the press release is closed for editing of that scale now, so we'll just put something on our website and put it in the next press release. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 23:02:42 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:02:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account [Was: government money, socialism et al.] In-Reply-To: <20020218033220.E8743@carolo.net> References: <20020212104359.C63572@math.jussieu.fr> <200202141918.g1EJIXGo003887@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215015517.GD13798@vet.uu.nl> <3C6CEECB.36024E24@lemburg.com> <200202151425.g1FEPSGo005252@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <20020215222731.GB17939@vet.uu.nl> <25820000.1013969533@js> <20020218033220.E8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020218230241.GH28444@vet.uu.nl> Denis wrote: [using various bank accounts] > Now, if many of you think it would be better to create a europython > organization before the event, and a own EuroPython bank account, it's > possible too. Though, I think it would take more time than we can spend. I get the impression that this may indeed be best, though it will take time. We do seem to have the expertise for this in our group, however (not me, but I'll do whatever people tell me to do :). What does the BudgetTeam think? :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 23:11:51 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:11:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020218163739.01a93918@mercury-1.cbu.edu> References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> <5.1.0.14.2.20020218163739.01a93918@mercury-1.cbu.edu> Message-ID: <20020218231151.GA28799@vet.uu.nl> Stephan Richter wrote: > So, it is decided that Zope will not appear in the conference name? I > though the conference was named "EuroPython and EuroZope Conference"? It's just been decided (I hope :) that the name will remain the same: European Python and Zope Conference (2002). The short name remains 'EuroPython'. Python remains the main thing everything resolves around. Any further debate we'll have next year if we're to organize another conference. I think attendance figures (or possibly registration figures already, if we ask for some extra data) will already give us quite a bit of input on whether the decision to keep 'Zope' in there was the right one. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 23:17:10 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:17:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams Message-ID: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, I am afraid I've seen a number of mockups for the EuroPython website already, along with a logo and I know about another one still incoming. We are apparently seeing a bit of overkill there and we don't want to get into somekind of endless discussion about whose design is best, etc. So could the people interested in web design and the design of other matters like conference materials please get together and coordinate matters? Once things are coordinated, we can then proceed to give some feedback on the design and then quickly move on to implementing it. I think so far there was some consensus about aiming for a simple low-frills design, so that's all the design input so far. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Mon Feb 18 23:22:58 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:22:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Any pressing press release issues left? Message-ID: <20020218232258.GB28827@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, Are there any pressing (sorry, can't help myself :) press release issues left? I can't think of any (except that there's not a Dutch translation yet :), so if not, we should move to get the release out there. http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/PressReleasePress contains a large amount of press entities we should be contacting. Please follow the instructions on the page if you want to 'claim' one. I just claimed a whole lot I'll be sending, and if no issues come up I'll start sending them out tomorrow. Regards, Martijn From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Mon Feb 18 23:32:17 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 00:32:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: <20020218225257.GD28444@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <20020219003217.S8743@carolo.net> Le Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:52:57PM +0100, Martijn Faassen pianota: > > There's gnumeric, though that may be difficult to download and install > too. I use Debian and it's part of debian unstable, so for me it's > easy. > Debian is clearly the right choice. ;-) Why not gnumeric ? Is everyone concerned running GNU/Linux ? (Yes, RMS was at FOSDEM too). Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <022a01c1b8d7$e898ec20$368c84d5@skullsplitter> Euhm, great, But I would have liked you told that you were working on this before.... Now I've waisted some valuable time of mine :-(((( Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "vincent" To: "Euro Python" Cc: "vincent" Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 11:24 PM Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... > Hi everybody, > > My name is vincent and I'm a Web Designer. > > SO, Denis ask me to prepare a simple layout for the internet Euro Python web > site, > Ok I did it and this the model, see it @ : > > http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython > > What do you think about ??? > > Hope to enjoy yourself ... > > Vincent. > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From jacek@artymiak.com Tue Feb 19 02:16:28 2002 From: jacek@artymiak.com (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 01:16:28 -0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: ; from europython-request@python.org on Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:01:29PM -0500 References: Message-ID: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> Hi, I'd like to propose a tutorial for the EuroPython conference. I'm working on a Python port of my FreeMovie library, which creates and parses Macromedia Flash(tm) SWF files. It is, in effect, an SWF SDK written entirely in Python. FM comes with a high-level toolkit that simplifies the process of creating and parsing SWF files. I use it to visualize business and scientific data. I wonder if there would be anyone interested in attending a tutorial session on this subject? The FM library is licenced under the terms of the GPL. -- Jacek Artymiak writer, author, developer, consultant --------------------------- e-mail: jacek@artymiak.com --------------------------- www: http://www.artymiak.com --------------------------- From Tom Deprez" Message-ID: <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> I back you up on this Martijn. I already tried to start some discussion about the webdesign on this list, but almost nobody responded (I think only you did). At the moment I was thinking on something and now I see somebody did a wonderfull job, but damn, no I waisted my time! I don't like this to happen, since I already don't have much free time. Regards, Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martijn Faassen" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 12:17 AM Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams > Hi there, > > I am afraid I've seen a number of mockups for the EuroPython website > already, along with a logo and I know about another one still > incoming. We are apparently seeing a bit of overkill there and we don't > want to get into somekind of endless discussion about whose design is > best, etc. > > So could the people interested in web design and the design of other > matters like conference materials please get together and coordinate matters? > Once things are coordinated, we can then proceed to give some feedback > on the design and then quickly move on to implementing it. > > I think so far there was some consensus about aiming for a simple > low-frills design, so that's all the design input so far. :) > > Regards, > > Martijn > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 19 01:28:17 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:28:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: <022a01c1b8d7$e898ec20$368c84d5@skullsplitter> References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> <022a01c1b8d7$e898ec20$368c84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020219022817.V8743@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:56:37AM +0100, Tom Deprez pianota: > Euhm, great, > > But I would have liked you told that you were working on this before... > Now I've waisted some valuable time of mine :-(((( It's has been said on the list. Philippe Jadin did something too, and Andrew asked another designer for a logo. --- quoting Martijn Faassen Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:55:29 +0100 ----- > We've now got a DesignTeam responsible for these issues. Anyone > interested should add their name to this page: > > http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/DesignTeam > ----------------------------------------------------------------- Please, follow Martijn's advice : add your names in the wiki and try to coordinate so that such displeasure doesn't happen too often. Notice that there is a DesignTeam and a WebTeam. As I already told you (outside this list), Tom, I really thought you were working on a more technical way on the Website. Now, checking those pages, I must admit it's not so clear : designers are listed on both. Shouldn't we keep only one of them ? If not, choose the prefered one : WebTeam should focus on architecture, forms, etc. DesignTeam should focus on logos, buttons, and so on. (Vincent, add yourself too). A+ -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 19 01:52:07 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 02:52:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <20020219025207.W8743@carolo.net> Le Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 11:24:13PM +0100, vincent pianota: > Ok I did it and this the model, see it @ : > > http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython > > What do you think about ??? Quick advice : + impressive, doesn't look cheap anymore + lots of work on it, I guess, thank you - not as light as we're used to - I personnally don't like the euro sign in the logo (though it's pronounced "euro" as in EuroPython, it makes me think to a financial thing when I see it like this) - keep the title as discussed for the press release See you soon. Denis -- Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Feb 19 07:07:11 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:07:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Logo, first try (pdf file) Message-ID: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C1B91C.6F3C4C10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi folks, after some discussions Dagmar made the first EPC logo (sometime last night...). It's colorful and inspired by the name "python" as well as that it is a european conference (stars). Don't shoot it of instantly if it isn't your individual taste, it's the first try... Dagmar needs some feedback based on the first visualisation... I think Dagmar will join the list herself sooner or later. I hope the list supports filing attachments... else I'll need a place to upload the pdf-file. Andrew Logo from: JUST AD. Einfach werben. 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344 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500]=0D>>=0Dendobj=0D22 0 obj=0D<<=0D/Type /FontDescriptor=0D/Ascent = 900=0D/CapHeight 765=0D/Descent 200=0D/Flags 34=0D/FontBBox [-2 -165 852 = 816]=0D/FontName /HouseFly=0D/ItalicAngle 0=0D/StemV = 0=0D>>=0Dendobj=0D18 0 obj=0D<<=0D/Type /Font=0D/Subtype /Type1=0D/Name = /F3=0D/BaseFont /Funhouse=0D/Encoding /MacRomanEncoding=0D/FirstChar = 0=0D/LastChar 255=0D/FontDescriptor 23 0 R=0D/Widths [=0D500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500=0D600 260 369 709 644 592 = 628 167 246 273 372 503 180 430 204 441=0D819 509 795 958 888 911 948 = 646 694 849 297 297 500 430 500 478=0D500 805 991 948 1004 491 578 1223 = 533 418 744 838 876 1353 957 591=0D816 889 797 785 1010 702 823 1306 = 1031 967 777 175 489 224 500 430=0D500 805 991 948 1004 491 578 1223 533 = 418 744 838 876 1353 957 591=0D816 889 797 785 1010 702 823 1306 1031 = 967 777 500 500 500 500 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500 500 500 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500 500 500=0D500 500 564 500 500 394 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500 500=0D532 651 278 258 195 182 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500=0D500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 500 = 500]=0D>>=0Dendobj=0D23 0 obj=0D<<=0D/Type /FontDescriptor=0D/Ascent = 1000=0D/CapHeight 850=0D/Descent 208=0D/Flags 34=0D/FontBBox [-173 -218 = 1264 958]=0D/FontName /Funhouse=0D/ItalicAngle 0=0D/StemV = 0=0D>>=0Dendobj=0D19 0 obj=0D<<=0D/Type /Font=0D/Subtype /Type1=0D/Name = /F4=0D/BaseFont /Tekton-Bold=0D/Encoding 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554 494 432 560 229 498 285 285 553 = 553=0D449 228 187 363 903 630 560 630 560 560 240 240 240 240 642 = 642=0D790 642 626 626 626 220 351 440 361 376 118 273 330 410 270 = 352]=0D>>=0Dendobj=0D24 0 obj=0D<<=0D/Type /FontDescriptor=0D/Ascent = 833=0D/CapHeight 708=0D/Descent 250=0D/Flags 34=0D/FontBBox [-104 -311 = 1000 948]=0D/FontName /Tekton-Bold=0D/ItalicAngle 0=0D/StemV = 0=0D>>=0Dendobj=0Dxref=0D0 25=0D0000000000 65535 f =0D0000000009 00000 n = =0D0000000058 00000 n =0D0000000127 00000 n =0D0000009025 00000 n = =0D0000018891 00000 n =0D0000000231 00000 n =0D0000000328 00000 n = =0D0000000286 00000 n =0D0000028878 00000 n =0D0000030257 00000 n = =0D0000009131 00000 n =0D0000009231 00000 n =0D0000009188 00000 n = =0D0000031635 00000 n =0D0000018997 00000 n =0D0000019098 00000 n = =0D0000019054 00000 n =0D0000032994 00000 n =0D0000034369 00000 n = =0D0000030080 00000 n =0D0000031458 00000 n =0D0000032828 00000 n = =0D0000034199 00000 n =0D0000035567 00000 n =0Dtrailer=0D<<=0D/Root 1 0 = R=0D/Size 25=0D>>=0Dstartxref=0D35739=0D%%EOF=0D ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C1B91C.6F3C4C10-- From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Feb 19 07:08:52 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:08:52 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> Message-ID: <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> Jacek Artymiak : > I'd like to propose a tutorial for the EuroPython conference. Great! > I'm working on a Python port of my FreeMovie library, which creates > and parses Macromedia Flash(tm) SWF files. It is, in effect, an SWF > SDK written entirely in Python. FM comes with a high-level toolkit > that simplifies the process of creating and parsing SWF files. I > use it to visualize business and scientific data. I wonder if there > would be anyone interested in attending a tutorial session on this > subject? The FM library is licenced under the terms of the GPL. Absolutely! Do you have more info on it somewhere? Regards, Dinu From nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org Tue Feb 19 07:26:06 2002 From: nicolas.pettiaux@openbe.org (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:26:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] aargh ! 3 days out and I must read 200 mails for Europython alone Message-ID: --------------Boundary-00=_IBRRP94EYRIQCK4XWL74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear really active member of the Eurpoython team, 3 days out (to get a rest) and I must read 200 mails for Europython alone= ! Could anyone summarize what I need to read, do and provide as most import= ant=20 info, as I'll be away fro mthe list for another 2 or 3 days because of 3=20 conferences about libre software I organize (see the joint info for more = ) Thank you, Nicolas Please call me on my portable +32.24.55.01 for really urgent matters. --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux Avenue du P=E9rou 29 B-1000 Brussels --------------Boundary-00=_IBRRP94EYRIQCK4XWL74 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; name="annonce_pitch_20020220.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="annonce_pitch_20020220.txt" CqBBbm5vdW5jaW5nIHRoZSBGaXJzdCBKb2ludCBQSVRDSC1FSUYgU2VtaW5hcgqgIlRoZSBGdXR1 cmUgb2YgT3BlbiBTb2Z0d2FyZSBNb2RlbHMiCqBGZWJydWFyeSAyMCwgMjAwMiwgYXQgdGhlIEV1 cm9wZWFuIFBhcmxpYW1lbnQsIEJydXNzZWxzLCBCRUxHSVVNCgqgaHR0cDovL3VzZXJzLnNreW5l dC5iZS9waXRjaHdvcmxkL01lbWJlcnMlMjBPbmx5L0FnZW5kYSUyMGR1JTIwc2VtaW5haXJlJTIw 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Hups... have SuSE7.3 but don't know if I have THIS one... and I use often my W*-based Laptop, so I would prefer some portable format. > (Yes, RMS was at FOSDEM too). Hmm... whatever you mean, it sounds good... what is RMS, and FOSDEM? Andrew From tim@2wave.net Tue Feb 19 08:15:44 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:15:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython] Conference Title In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20020219081544.85345.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> > Alastair Burt : > > > Dinu Gherman writes: > > > .... What happened to the good old tradition of naming > conferences after > > tins of meat? I think the conference should > obviously be called > > "EUROSPAM 1", which does not have Zope or Python > in the title. > > The tradition does likely still exist, but I guess > the general > movement is toward getting more "market share" and, > hence, > appearing to be less of a cult movement to the > "other folks" > is more of an advantage. > > Apart from that, I'd prefer FOIE-GRAS I... ;-) > > Dinu Rather than Spam we could use the sausage, under the title: "The Wurst is yet to come" er... I'll go back to work now ..... Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From xavier@defrang.com Tue Feb 19 09:02:36 2002 From: xavier@defrang.com (Xavier Defrang) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:02:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <3C7214AC.630273F1@defrang.com> vincent wrote: > What do you think about ??? I'm not "officialy" a web designer but I'm really concerned with design and usability issues so here are my remarks, don't get offended... design is often a matter of taste... I hope you'll take this as constructive remarks. First of all, i'd remove that splashscreen : it's completely useless and definetly look unprofessional (such a design would suit more a hacking/cracking conference! ;)) The logo is way too complex. How do you think it will look if you print it out on badges, t-shirts or whatever? What about reusing that cute little Python icon bundled with the Python distribution and just add a european symbol (flag?) on it? IMHO the design is also bloated with images, there are too many of them... A nearly pure text site would be better for a tech audience. Have a look at Python10.org, I won't say it's got a perfect design but it's light and you've got all the information one click away. I'm afraid you designed the layout of the site before having the structure of the site clearly defined... Btw, what happened to the lovely lightweight layout i saw on, the list a few days ago? This layout was more likely to bring in more suits with pockets full of shiny bucks to be spent in Python/Zope consulting. ;) no-i-am-not-jakob-nielsen'ly yours, X. ----- blogging & stuff, daily updates >> http://defrang.com From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 19 09:07:55 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:07:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <3C7215EB.256EAB8F@lemburg.com> vincent wrote: > > Hi everybody, > > My name is vincent and I'm a Web Designer. > > SO, Denis ask me to prepare a simple layout for the internet Euro Python web > site, > Ok I did it and this the model, see it @ : > > http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython > > What do you think about ??? Some observations: * Python is a programming language, so this is really more about bits and bytes than reptiles (note that Python originated from the TV series Monty Python, not the snake's name). * The web-site will have to give a professional look and feel. It's intention is to attract, among others, managers and business people. I'm afraid that the snake may scare these groups away rather than attract them. * The site will be put more emphasis on content then looks. It should provide a basic layout which looks reasonable and then allow for more or less arbitrary content to be displayed in the content area. * The Euro logo in the conference logo is a bit misleading I think: the ring of starts would better fit here (putting emphasis on community rather than monetary values). Perhaps you could get in touch with Just van Rossum, the brother of Guido van Rossum, and set up a WebsiteDesignTeam ?! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Feb 19 09:26:41 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 10:26:41 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: <3C7215EB.256EAB8F@lemburg.com> References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> <3C7215EB.256EAB8F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <1014110801.3c721a51c0614@webmail.in-berlin.de> "M.-A. Lemburg" : > * Python is a programming language, so this is really more about > bits and bytes than reptiles (note that Python originated > from the TV series Monty Python, not the snake's name). There are other references to reptiles, but anyway. That makes me wonder if there could be an EPC2002 logo that mimicks the graphics style used in the Monty Python series? In fact that does reappear to some degree in the student video shown at IPC10: http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/pyBiblio/pythonvideo.php (ca. 250 MB...). Regards, Dinu From mwh@python.net Tue Feb 19 10:01:36 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 19 Feb 2002 10:01:36 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Logo, first try (pdf file) In-Reply-To: "Andrew Smart"'s message of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 08:07:11 +0100" References: Message-ID: <2mr8nhn62n.fsf@starship.python.net> "Andrew Smart" writes: > after some discussions Dagmar made the first EPC logo (sometime last > night...). It's colorful and inspired by the name "python" as well as that > it is a european conference (stars). > > Don't shoot it of instantly if it isn't your individual taste, it's the > first try... Dagmar needs some feedback based on the first visualisation... Random comments: 1) Basically I like it. Nice and simple. Should look good on a T-shirt. 2) Perhaps the colours are a bit too garish? 3) The stars should certainly be in a circle to resemble the stars of the EU (i.e. like the first logo in the pdf) 4) I thought the short name of the conference was EuroPython (i.e. CamelCased), not Euro-python or similar. Cheers, M. -- There are two ways of constructing a software design: one way is to make it so simple that there are obviously no deficiencies and the other way is to make it so complicated that there are no obvious deficiencies. -- C. A. R. Hoare From mvm@brutele.be Tue Feb 19 10:19:46 2002 From: mvm@brutele.be (vincent) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:19:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> <3C7215EB.256EAB8F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <005401c1b92e$f4a19970$3aff44d4@gfx> Thank you @ all !!! Vincent. From lac@strakt.com Tue Feb 19 10:30:44 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:30:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Maybe, The Euro Python Layout... In-Reply-To: Message from "vincent" of "Mon, 18 Feb 2002 23:24:13 +0100." <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> References: <000901c1b8cb$01539010$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <200202191030.g1JAUiGo014867@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I am looking at http://212.68.204.88:9673/europython The Snake is terrific. I don't like the white at the bottom of the screen. If we want to use this Snake as part of general marketting material, i.e. make paper-tree version of this logo, it may be too dark. There is a harsh edge to the left of the brown log or whatever the snake is sitting on which I think is jarring. I have mixed feelings about turning the Y into the forked snake's tongue. It's innovative, but python tongues don't fork to quite that extent, and are black not red. But then I win awards for being too much of a pedant all the time. The Snake itself is terrific. Good work. Laura Creighton From jacek@artymiak.com Tue Feb 19 13:37:14 2002 From: jacek@artymiak.com (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:37:14 -0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de>; from gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:08:52AM +0100 References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:08:52AM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > I'm working on a Python port of my FreeMovie library, which creates > > and parses Macromedia Flash(tm) SWF files. It is, in effect, an SWF > > SDK written entirely in Python. FM comes with a high-level toolkit > > that simplifies the process of creating and parsing SWF files. I > > use it to visualize business and scientific data. I wonder if there > > would be anyone interested in attending a tutorial session on this > > subject? The FM library is licenced under the terms of the GPL. > > Absolutely! Do you have more info on it somewhere? Thank you. I'll be posting more information and the source code within the next two weeks on http://freemovie.sourceforge.net. I'm also thinking of publishing a printed developer's guide for the Python port of FreeMovie. As for the tutorial, I'd like to propose the following schedule: 1. The general structure of SWF files: a gentle introduction to the Flash SWF file format. 2. The general structure of the FreeMovie library: an explanation of the layered architecure of the FM library. 3. Working with vector graphics: creating simple and complex vector shapes, solid and gradient fills, layers. 4. Working with bitmap graphics: using bitmaps as standalone shapes and fills. 5. Animation: simple motion, morphing. 6. Slicing and splicing SWF files: extracting tags from one SWF file and adding them into another. That should be enough to fill 3 hours :-) What do you think? Best, -- Jacek Artymiak writer, author, developer, consultant --------------------------- e-mail: jacek@artymiak.com --------------------------- www: http://www.artymiak.com --------------------------- From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Feb 19 11:36:08 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:36:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation Message-ID: Hi folks, hmm... I have no knowledge about Belgium business/organisational structures and how to found them. I searched a bit and found 2 "commercial" forms: SPRL = Societe Privee a Responsabilite Limitee BV = Besloten Venootschap met Beperkte Aansprakelijkheid The first one sounds a bit like a "GmbH" (Ltd.) in Germany/London. The second i can't translate, but I would guess it's the bigger one (like "AG" in Germany). You need at least one Person as Founder, can be forein, must have a professional card. Founding capital: at least 750.000 bfrs (around 18.000 Euro), costs: 30.000 bfrs (750 Euro) One have to "pay" before founding at least 20% of the capital (3600 Euro). Time to found: at least 8 weeks I'm seeking further, but anyone from Belgium with know-how would be very welcome! I'm seeking organisational structures for non-profit organisations... I've also found references for european-wide company structures (called EWIV in German), but that's quite high-level stuff so I cannot say if it would suit us... Andrew From p.vrijlandt@aig.azn.nl Tue Feb 19 11:47:47 2002 From: p.vrijlandt@aig.azn.nl (p.vrijlandt@aig.azn.nl) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:47:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation Message-ID: Form: Reply Text: (64 lines follow) I'm Dutch, not Belgian, but BV = Besloten Venootschap met Beperkte Aansprakelijkheid translates as SPRL = Societe Privee a Responsabilite Limitee in French. I suppose this would be roughly equivalent to GmbH or Ltd The Dutch 'other' possibilty would be NV = Naamloze Vennootschap equals SA = Societe Anonyme possibly AG = AktienGesellschaft Don't know about Belgium though -- Patrick Vrijlandt ---------- Tekst van het origineel ---------- Van: "Andrew Smart" , op 19-02-2002 12:36: To: ISMTP@azninfo22@Servers["Europython" ] Hi folks, hmm... I have no knowledge about Belgium business/organisational structures and how to found them. I searched a bit and found 2 "commercial" forms: SPRL = Societe Privee a Responsabilite Limitee BV = Besloten Venootschap met Beperkte Aansprakelijkheid The first one sounds a bit like a "GmbH" (Ltd.) in Germany/London. The second i can't translate, but I would guess it's the bigger one (like "AG" in Germany). You need at least one Person as Founder, can be forein, must have a professional card. Founding capital: at least 750.000 bfrs (around 18.000 Euro), costs: 30.000 bfrs (750 Euro) One have to "pay" before founding at least 20% of the capital (3600 Euro). Time to found: at least 8 weeks I'm seeking further, but anyone from Belgium with know-how would be very welcome! I'm seeking organisational structures for non-profit organisations... I've also found references for european-wide company structures (called EWIV in German), but that's quite high-level stuff so I cannot say if it would suit us... Andrew _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de Tue Feb 19 11:50:31 2002 From: gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 12:50:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> Message-ID: <1014119431.3c723c075fc13@webmail.in-berlin.de> Jacek Artymiak : > As for the tutorial, I'd like to propose the following schedule: > > 1. The general structure of SWF files: a gentle introduction to the > Flash SWF file format. > 2. The general structure of the FreeMovie library: an explanation of > the layered architecure of the FM library. > 3. Working with vector graphics: creating simple and complex vector > shapes, solid and gradient fills, layers. > 4. Working with bitmap graphics: using bitmaps as standalone shapes > and fills. > 5. Animation: simple motion, morphing. > 6. Slicing and splicing SWF files: extracting tags from one SWF file > and adding them into another. > > That should be enough to fill 3 hours :-) > > What do you think? Have a look in the time schedule to check if there is space for a dedicated conference track! ;-) More seriously, you should check www.reportlab.com as they have quite some of what you list above, including vector graphics, to generate PDF, EPS and bitmap graphics formats (using libart), but no SWF. It would be cool to find a way for cross-fertilization, if only as a seperate module (be- cause of potential license issues... ReportLab is FreeBSD- licensed). ReportLab-biased'ly, Dinu From spirou@colnet.carolo.net Tue Feb 19 12:14:31 2002 From: spirou@colnet.carolo.net (Denis) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:14:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020219131431.B8743@carolo.net> Le Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:36:08PM +0100, Andrew Smart pianota: > Hi folks, >=20 > hmm... I have no knowledge about Belgium business/organisational struct= ures > and how to found them. > [Soci=E9t=E9 Anonyme (S.A.) and Soci=E9t=E9 de Personne =E0 Responsabil= it=E9 > Limit=E9e (S.P.R.L.) summary] These kind of organization is more suited for profit structures. I really don't think we should go this way. > I'm seeking further, but anyone from Belgium with know-how would be ver= y > welcome! >=20 > I'm seeking organisational structures for non-profit organisations... My first thought would go for a=20 Association Sans But Lucratif (A.S.B.L.) that's a non-profit association. What's needed : * Statutes - writing statutes (how long ? from a few days to several months if we discuss every sentence as we discussed the conference title ;-) - around 300 to 400 euros for official publications (depends on the length of the statutes) - about 4 weeks for registration - eventually, statutes revision if there's a legal problem with the first draft (some weeks more) =20 * Bank Account - shouldn't be very long (but in fact, I've been experiencing it's not so easy sometimes : there's always a form that needs to be signed by all the founders, then another form the bank has forgotten on your first visit, then another form, because they have lost the first one, ...) That means we could set up such an organization up before June, but we could be short on time for first incoming funds, for example. So, this could be a aim, but we could have to use other ways meanwhile. EuroZope --> P3B --> EuroPython (when it's running) ? Denis --=20 Denis FRERE P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org=20 Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From bh@intevation.de Tue Feb 19 12:40:56 2002 From: bh@intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog) Date: 19 Feb 2002 13:40:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014119431.3c723c075fc13@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Dinu Gherman writes: > Jacek Artymiak : > > > As for the tutorial, I'd like to propose the following schedule: [freemovie Tutorial description snipped] > > > > That should be enough to fill 3 hours :-) > > > > What do you think? > > Have a look in the time schedule to check if there is space > for a dedicated conference track! ;-) [...] > It would be cool to find a way > for cross-fertilization, if only as a seperate module (be- > cause of potential license issues... ReportLab is FreeBSD- > licensed). How much interest would there be in a graphics track? There are quite a few graphics projects in Python. In addition to freemovie and reportlab, there's piddle/sping, PIL, Justs's font-stuff and Sketch (and no doubt I'm forgetting some). Bernhard -- Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ Sketch http://sketch.sourceforge.net/ MapIt! http://mapit.de/ From lac@strakt.com Tue Feb 19 13:08:18 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:08:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hallén how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. Message-ID: <200202191308.g1JD8Ij5015969@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> He has done this many times. He said: 1 day. I asked him to write it up. This is his response: 'collecting 5 people' need not be done in person. An Irc channel would work, or a conference telephone call. There are roughly 10 Euros in a Swedish Krona. ------------- (Message inbox:1171) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:23:51 +0100 To: Laura Creighton From: Jacob Hall n Subject: How to make a non-profit society in Sweden Return-Path: jacob@strakt.com Delivery-Date: Tue Feb 19 13:16:31 2002 Return-Path: Received: from strakt.com (jacob@enzo.strakt.com [62.13.29.40]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.1/8.12.1/Debian -5) with ESMTP id g1JCGVpZ002060 for ; Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:16:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3C7243D7.3060106@strakt.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 13:23:51 +0100 From: Jacob =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hall=E9n?= User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: sv, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Laura Creighton Subject: How to make a non-profit society in Sweden Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit 1. Collect 5 people. 2. Create some by-laws. They have to contain purpose, grounds for membership and administrative details, like how many members the board should have and how a general meeting is called. 3. Hold a meeting to officially form the society. In the meeting you select a board. You also set up rules for who gets to officially sign papers for the society (including how to access money in the bank). The last item may even be in the by-laws. 4. Go to the bank or the post office with your papers and ask to open an account. A bank account you can get for free. If you want to connect it to the bank giro or to use it over the Internet, there is a yearly charge of a couple of hundred kronor. A postal giro account costs something like 400 kronor per year. If you want to set up organisations that have more lee-way in what they can do financially, it takes a bit more time and work. You can make for-profit societies (ekonomisk förening) and trusts (stiftelser). I have made a trust once, but not a for-profit society. Jacob From dario@ita.chalmers.se Tue Feb 19 13:26:26 2002 From: dario@ita.chalmers.se (=?Windows-1252?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:26:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] =?Windows-1252?Q?Re:_=5BEuroPython=5D_I_asked_Jacob_Hall=E9n_how_long_it_?= =?Windows-1252?Q?would_take_to_make_a_non_profit_society_in_Sweden.?= References: <200202191308.g1JD8Ij5015969@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <00e401c1b949$089f66e0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> From: "Laura Creighton" > > He has done this many times. He said: 1 day. I asked him to write it up. > This is his response: 'collecting 5 people' need not be done in person. > An Irc channel would work, or a conference telephone call. There are > roughly 10 Euros in a Swedish Krona. > > ------------- > 1. Collect 5 people. > 2. Create some by-laws. They have to contain purpose, grounds for > membership and administrative details, like how many members the board > should have and how a general meeting is called. I have some experince in being on the board for a couple of non-profit or= gs in Sweden , and can provide good examples for bylaws (even a fill-in-the-blanks-and-elaborate-a-bit bylaw-form) that are specifically = for non-profit organisations. They are in swedish, but it would be trivial to translate them into english if there is interest. /dario - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K=E4sten Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of Technology dario@ita.chalmers.se ICQ will yield no hits IT Systems & Services From mwh@python.net Tue Feb 19 13:31:05 2002 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: 19 Feb 2002 13:31:05 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hallén how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. In-Reply-To: Laura Creighton's message of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:08:18 +0100" References: <200202191308.g1JD8Ij5015969@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <2mwux97g4m.fsf@starship.python.net> Laura Creighton writes: > He has done this many times. He said: 1 day. I asked him to write it up. > This is his response: 'collecting 5 people' need not be done in person. > An Irc channel would work, or a conference telephone call. There are > roughly 10 Euros in a Swedish Krona. I think you mean ~10 krona to a euro? E4000 a year for a bank account seems a bit steep... Cheers, M. -- [Perl] combines all the worst aspects of C and Lisp: a billion different sublanguages in one monolithic executable. It combines the power of C with the readability of PostScript. -- Jamie Zawinski From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 13:44:02 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:44:02 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account [Was: government money, socialism et al.] In-Reply-To: <20020218230241.GH28444@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > I get the impression that this may indeed be best, though it will take > time. We do seem to have the expertise for this in our group, however > (not me, but I'll do whatever people tell me to do :). What does the > BudgetTeam think? :) I am not part of the BudgetTeam, but I know that in France it is rather easy to create an "association loi 1901" (non-profit) or a "groupement intérêt économique" (for-profit). Neither are companies. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 13:50:25 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:50:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] EPC Logo, first try (pdf file) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > after some discussions Dagmar made the first EPC logo (sometime last > night...). It's colorful and inspired by the name "python" as well as that > it is a european conference (stars). > > Don't shoot it of instantly if it isn't your individual taste, it's the > first try... Dagmar needs some feedback based on the first visualisation... IMHO: maybe a little *too* colorful, but I rather like it :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Tue Feb 19 13:55:08 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 19 Feb 2002 14:55:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: "Andrew Smart" writes: > I searched a bit and found 2 "commercial" forms: > > SPRL = Societe Privee a Responsabilite Limitee > BV = Besloten Venootschap met Beperkte Aansprakelijkheid These seem to be the same to me, once in French and once in Dutch. But for our needs, I'd go for some form of association rather than a commercial company. Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Tue Feb 19 13:56:16 2002 From: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr (Konrad Hinsen) Date: 19 Feb 2002 14:56:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Introduction / Paper proposal In-Reply-To: <3C70DC26.BBF8BC2F@lemburg.com> References: <3C70DC26.BBF8BC2F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > Perhaps you can volunteer as track champion for the > "Python in Science" track ?! OK in principle, but before I accept responsibility for any kind of program, I'd like to know the conditions: how much time is available for the track, what are the conditions for inviting speakers, etc. Konrad. -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Konrad Hinsen | E-Mail: hinsen@cnrs-orleans.fr Centre de Biophysique Moleculaire (CNRS) | Tel.: +33-2.38.25.56.24 Rue Charles Sadron | Fax: +33-2.38.63.15.17 45071 Orleans Cedex 2 | Deutsch/Esperanto/English/ France | Nederlands/Francais ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 13:59:45 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:59:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > I searched a bit and found 2 "commercial" forms: > > SPRL = Societe Privee a Responsabilite Limitee > BV = Besloten Venootschap met Beperkte Aansprakelijkheid > > The first one sounds a bit like a "GmbH" (Ltd.) in Germany/London. > The second i can't translate, but I would guess it's the bigger one (like > "AG" in Germany). That would be SARL and SA in France. That's for companies, with customers, staff on the payroll, etc. I'm not sure that it is what we are looking for. Or is it ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 14:02:50 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:02:50 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Message-ID: > How much interest would there be in a graphics track? There are quite a > few graphics projects in Python. In addition to freemovie and reportlab, > there's piddle/sping, PIL, Justs's font-stuff and Sketch (and no doubt > I'm forgetting some). Sounds like a good idea. To me at least. Unless someone objects, please create the track in the wiki and add your name there. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 19 14:24:17 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:24:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Track organization References: <3C70DC26.BBF8BC2F@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C726011.F110BE02@lemburg.com> Konrad Hinsen wrote: > > "M.-A. Lemburg" writes: > > > Perhaps you can volunteer as track champion for the > > "Python in Science" track ?! > > OK in principle, but before I accept responsibility for any kind of > program, I'd like to know the conditions: how much time is available > for the track, what are the conditions for inviting speakers, etc. You get full repsonsibility, including reviewing proposals for talks and/or commissioning them. The timeframe for the tracks is not fixed yet, but a look at: http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTimetable and http://europython.zope.nl/wiki/ConferenceTracks suggests that you have either an AM or PM session available. In general, I think we should come up with a rough estimate of how many talks we think we are going to get in each track. I added the AM - PM assignment to the tracks table with emphasis on the Python track in the hope that a lot of interesting talks will be held in this track. Conditions for invited speakers depend on the budget. I hope that we'll be able to give them free admission, however, not even that is certain. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From lac@strakt.com Tue Feb 19 14:24:17 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:24:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hall n how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Hudson of "19 Feb 2002 13:31:05 GMT." <2mwux97g4m.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200202191308.g1JD8Ij5015969@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2mwux97g4m.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200202191424.g1JEOIGo016153@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Laura Creighton writes: > > > He has done this many times. He said: 1 day. I asked him to write it up. > > This is his response: 'collecting 5 people' need not be done in person. > > An Irc channel would work, or a conference telephone call. There are > > roughly 10 Euros in a Swedish Krona. > > I think you mean ~10 krona to a euro? E4000 a year for a bank account > seems a bit steep... > > Cheers, > M. Absolutely. oh is my face red. Laura From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 14:28:59 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:28:59 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams In-Reply-To: <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > I back you up on this Martijn. > > I already tried to start some discussion about the webdesign on this list, > but almost nobody responded (I think only you did). > At the moment I was thinking on something and now I see somebody did a > wonderfull job, but damn, no I waisted my time! > I don't like this to happen, since I already don't have much free time. What we basically need is someone to take the lead on this, and who will make sure everybody is coordinated. They need to nag everybody and keep track of the status and things that are still missing, and try to push through some sort of vision. Is anyone willing to step forward as one? Tom? If a leader is determined for the web and design issues we can put him or her with big blinking letters on the wiki somewhere, so everybody knows who to talk to. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 14:33:43 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:33:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hall?n how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. In-Reply-To: <00e401c1b949$089f66e0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200202191308.g1JD8Ij5015969@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <00e401c1b949$089f66e0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20020219143343.GB31290@vet.uu.nl> Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: > > 1. Collect 5 people. > > 2. Create some by-laws. They have to contain purpose, grounds for > > membership and administrative details, like how many members the board > > should have and how a general meeting is called. > > I have some experince in being on the board for a couple of non-profit orgs > in Sweden , and can provide good examples for bylaws (even a > fill-in-the-blanks-and-elaborate-a-bit bylaw-form) that are specifically for > non-profit organisations. They are in swedish, but it would be trivial to > translate them into english if there is interest. I'd like to see these. I know we also discussed the bylaws issue when we were in Berlin for EuroZope, so I have at least a little bit of a reference frame. That said, one main question remains as to what we're actually founding: * an organization dedicated to the organization of EuroPython *conferences* * a more general organization about Python in Europe that happens to also organize conferences; i.e. a EuroPython Foundation. As I understand it the first approach is a bit of a lower risk; i.e. if we did the second EuroPython may run into financial troubles from the start (though I certainly hope and trust we can keep this risk low and not lose any money). But of course having a EuroPython Foundation (sister to the EuroZope foundation) wouldn't be a bad idea in general. So what do people think is best? Regards, Martijn From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 14:39:33 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:39:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Track organization In-Reply-To: <3C726011.F110BE02@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > Conditions for invited speakers depend on the budget. I hope that > we'll be able to give them free admission, however, not even that is > certain. I agree that there is not budget figures yet, but it seems to me that free admission for the speakers is the least we could do for them. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 14:41:46 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:41:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > That would be SARL and SA in France. That's for companies, with customers, > staff on the payroll, etc. I'm not sure that it is what we are looking > for. Or is it ? Nope, I don't think so either. We want a non-profit organization. When Joachim Schmitz looked into this for EuroZope, he could find no europe-wide organizational structure but found out that (say) a German foundation would work fine too for this type of purpose. If nobody know better (that there is a European style foundation), then we'll have to base it in a country somewhere. Could be Sweden though perhaps a euro-land country may be a trifle easier if people need to pay money to it. Could basically be anywhere in Europe, as far as I'm aware. But then I'm not very aware beyond this. :) So: * there is no European-wide Foundation as a possibility, right? * if not, any special reasons to base it in a particular European country, or *not* any particular European country? * any other important points? :) Regards, Martijn From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 14:42:25 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:42:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Re: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hall?n how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. In-Reply-To: <20020219143343.GB31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > That said, one main question remains as to what we're actually founding: > > * an organization dedicated to the organization of EuroPython > *conferences* > > * a more general organization about Python in Europe that happens to > also organize conferences; i.e. a EuroPython Foundation. > > So what do people think is best? KISS + "Overdesign is bad" = let's go for the simplest one, we'll get into the trouble of upgrading it later if need arises :-) -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 14:45:18 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:45:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > * there is no European-wide Foundation as a possibility, right? Searching the web, I found out that there are plans by the EC to make it a possibility, but nothing's in existence yet, hence we have to pick a country and use its laws. Does anyone know better ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 14:45:21 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:45:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] aargh ! 3 days out and I must read 200 mails for Europython alone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20020219144521.GD31290@vet.uu.nl> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Dear really active member of the Eurpoython team, > > 3 days out (to get a rest) and I must read 200 mails for Europython alone ! > > Could anyone summarize what I need to read, do and provide as most important > info, as I'll be away fro mthe list for another 2 or 3 days The most important thing to do is to read the budget discussion and offer some feedback on the organization form you think we should/could take, or if we shouldn't, why not, etc. How to formalize certain issues having to do with getting/spending money and carrying risk is the most burning issue at present. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 14:49:27 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:49:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam, Budget Questions In-Reply-To: References: <20020219003217.S8743@carolo.net> Message-ID: <20020219144927.GE31290@vet.uu.nl> Andrew Smart wrote: > > Why not gnumeric ? > > Hups... have SuSE7.3 but don't know if I have THIS one... and I use often my > W*-based Laptop, so I would prefer some portable format. I believe Gnumeric at least read and very possibly also write Excel. But then I'm absolutely no spreadsheet person so I'll shut up on this for now. > > (Yes, RMS was at FOSDEM too). > > Hmm... whatever you mean, it sounds good... what is RMS, and FOSDEM? FOSDEM was a meeting on free software/open source recently held in Belgium. RMS stands for Richard M Stallman, who is the central free software figure. Eccentric and very determined in his cause. Very amusing when he sings. Wrote big pieces of things like Emacs and gcc early on. The GNU stuff. Hard to describe. Reference here was because Denis said "GNU/Linux", which is how RMS wants you to describe a Linux distribution. Regards, Martijn From lac@strakt.com Tue Feb 19 14:48:58 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:48:58 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: Message from Martijn Faassen of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:41:46 +0100." <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <200202191448.g1JEmwGo016502@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > > That would be SARL and SA in France. That's for companies, with customers, > > staff on the payroll, etc. I'm not sure that it is what we are looking > > for. Or is it ? > > Nope, I don't think so either. We want a non-profit organization. When > Joachim Schmitz looked into this for EuroZope, he could find no > europe-wide organizational structure but found out that (say) a German > foundation would work fine too for this type of purpose. > > If nobody know better (that there is a European style foundation), then > we'll have to base it in a country somewhere. Could be Sweden though > perhaps a euro-land country may be a trifle easier if people need to > pay money to it. Could basically be anywhere in Europe, as far as I'm > aware. But then I'm not very aware beyond this. :) You can stuff Euros into our banks. We understand what to do with them. Its getting Euros out, the paper, that is a problem, if that matters. Postgiro is good for all of Europe. > > So: > > * there is no European-wide Foundation as a possibility, right? Not that I can figure. We have to be under some jurisdiction > > * if not, any special reasons to base it in a particular European country, > or *not* any particular European country? > > * any other important points? :) If we do not pay any salaries, then we do not have to register the Society with the Swedish government, so we are not liable for taxes. This is important. Figure out the tax consequences of other alternatives. > Martijn Laura Creighton From bh@intevation.de Tue Feb 19 14:55:34 2002 From: bh@intevation.de (Bernhard Herzog) Date: 19 Feb 2002 15:55:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> References: <20020219144146.GC31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <6q3czxcyhl.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Martijn Faassen writes: > * there is no European-wide Foundation as a possibility, right? Correct, AFAIK. The FSF-Europe had the same problem. They ended up starting with an non-profit organization in Germany ("eingetragener Verein", to be specific) as a parent organization and they're slowly adding sub-organizations for other european countries. > * any other important points? :) One advantage of non-profit organizations is that donations to them are usually tax-deductible. However, this doesn't work on a european level, unfortunately. I.e. a donation from a german company to a belgian non-profit probably wouldn't be deductible, for instance. This was one reason for the FSFE to use the more complex setup with country specific sub-organizations. This is something that can't be solved until June, of course, but may be important to keep in mind when thinking about a more permanent setup for a european Python organization. Bernhard -- Intevation GmbH http://intevation.de/ Sketch http://sketch.sourceforge.net/ MapIt! http://mapit.de/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Feb 19 17:33:31 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 18:33:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] Press Release Message-ID: Hey, Is the press release considered done ? Is the french translation considered done ? Does it need proof-reading ? I am ready to send to good news to several french speaking people, but first I'd like to be sure this press release is our final answer. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Feb 19 19:29:02 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:29:02 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: <6q3czxcyhl.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Message-ID: > > * there is no European-wide Foundation as a possibility, right? > > Correct, AFAIK. The FSF-Europe had the same problem. They ended up > starting with an non-profit organization in Germany ("eingetragener > Verein", to be specific) as a parent organization and they're slowly > adding sub-organizations for other european countries. As I wrote today I may have found something which is supported from EU and already "in use". Some sort of light-weight european society. I have to read some dull, boring legal stuff I printed out tomorrow, will provide more informations later. Andrew From andy@reportlab.com Tue Feb 19 15:21:10 2002 From: andy@reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 15:21:10 -0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hall?n how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. In-Reply-To: <20020219143343.GB31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: > That said, one main question remains as to what we're > actually founding: > > * an organization dedicated to the organization of EuroPython > *conferences* > > * a more general organization about Python in Europe that > happens to > also organize conferences; i.e. a EuroPython Foundation. > I think there are good grounds for having the second, one day. In the UK and US, clubs, societies and companies all must have some kind of charter saying "what they are for", but this can be a vague sentence which leaves both options open. BTW, I know a team at a large consulting firm who regularly apply for and get large EU research grants. They put together some academics, some developers and some vague requirements from the EU, and initiate and manage large projects. What prevented ReportLab being involved so far was that they need "partners" who are (a) European and (b) non-profit. If such a foundation existed, there is a good chance it could be a partner in such projects and used to get some money and even employ Python developers one day. IF things are looking suitably non-chaotic nearer the time, I will try to get the relevant firm to attend the conference. They nearly made it to LSM last year, but the lack of a business focus turned them off at the last moment. - Andy Robinson From mal@lemburg.com Tue Feb 19 20:29:23 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 21:29:23 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: [EuroPython] I asked Jacob Hall?n how long it would take to make a non profit society in Sweden. References: Message-ID: <3C72B5A3.A94BEE5C@lemburg.com> Andy Robinson wrote: > > > That said, one main question remains as to what we're > > actually founding: > > > > * an organization dedicated to the organization of EuroPython > > *conferences* > > > > * a more general organization about Python in Europe that > > happens to > > also organize conferences; i.e. a EuroPython Foundation. > > > > I think there are good grounds for having the second, one day. One day, yes, but for the current conference, we'll need just any kind of (possibly short-lived) organization. And we need it fast :-/ BTW, the PSF will possibly reach out to Europe as well. That move will have to be well though over though, since we will probably need one non-profit foundation at the top with country-based ones underneath (in order to get the non-profit benefits in all EU-countries). > BTW, I know a team at a large consulting firm who regularly apply > for and get large EU research grants. They put together some > academics, some developers and some vague requirements from the EU, > and initiate and manage large projects. What prevented ReportLab > being involved so far was that they need "partners" who are > (a) European and (b) non-profit. If such a foundation existed, there > is a good chance it could be a partner in such projects and used > to get some money and even employ Python developers one day. > > IF things are looking suitably non-chaotic nearer the time, > I will try to get the relevant firm to attend the conference. > They nearly made it to LSM last year, but the lack of a business > focus turned them off at the last moment. Sounds like a good contact :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Feb 19 19:29:01 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:29:01 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam: Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmm... to summarize the replies: I think we all agree that the Conference Organisation has to be some sort of non-profit-society. There are known ways to form a society (in Germany it's even a bit more simple... if 2 people agree to do something together it's already some sort of society called GbR. No forms, no written statement...), but till now we know nothing about a equivalent in Belgium. Question I: where do we found the society? Belgium? France? Germany? Sweden? Madeira? (Please vote; you have a vote for the quality of the singing, one vote for the permformance of the artist and one vote how closly the artist resemble one randomly choosen spectator; your vote ranges from 1 to 10 :-) The last "country" wins because for the sun... ;-) Question II: what is pragramtic and practical? - where will the most money spent? -> probably Belgium - where will the most money contributed? -> different countries? Question III: are there known non-profit societies which have limited liabilities? Usual the easy-formed societies split the risc of debts to the members of the society. In Germany a creditor can choose any member of a society to pay the _full_ debt... Question IV: who will found the society in given country? -> we have to get a count of willing people in each country to see if we have enough. Citizenship restrictions may apply... Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Feb 19 22:20:44 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:20:44 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation Message-ID: Yup, I found something which might be/probably is a sort of european organisation. Possible since 1989; there are currently around 800 so called EWIV (german abbreviation, something like 'european economical interest association'). Background: you can found a EWIV association in any choosen european country. In each country is a mapping between the EWIV and a given association/organisational law. In different countries are different restrictions to EWIV (e.g. in Irland a EWIV can not have more than 20 members, in Spain you can not move a EWIV to another country if it is again national interest and stuff like that). A EWIV is registered in one germany country (the usual registration offices) and then published european-wide. A EWIV can move beetween countries without bigger problems, like: founded in Germany, moved to Belgium. You don't have to re-found the association. The founding is as easy as any other: at least 2 people/organisations from 2 different european countries are needed. No funding necessary, minimal formal requirements. The association can be founded for a given time or for ever. The association is a own legal person, can have treaties, bank accounts. If there are unpaid debts the association cannot pay than the members will have to pay. EWIV's are used by companies as well by non-profit-organisations (example: Choroi Association - GEIE). EWIV's cannot be members of others EWIV's... The whole document is about 105 pages; some questions are still open (tax-deduction?). The biggest problem, though, will be to get the registration offices to register the EWIV. I doubt that many people in our well-feared bureaucratic know about this... Maybe one to two people other than should go hunting for english versions of the document and more data: Some anchors: - based on european regulation (EWG) 2137/85 - there is a network called „REGIE“ which supplies informations and contacts Some address: Amt für amtliche Veröffentlichungen der Europäischen Gemeinschaften - EUR-OP Section „Marchés publics“ 2, rue Mercier L-2985 Luxemburg Fax: +352/2929 42670 Europäische Kommission Sekretariat von Herrn Reinhard Schulte-Braucks - GD XXIII/A/1 Rue de la Loi 200, AN 80 B-1049 Brüssel (Fax +32.2.295.97.84) The law about EWIV in Belgium is based on: - law from 12.7.89 about the introduction of EWIV - regulation 8/1989 dating 31.8.89 about taxes The link (105 German pages) http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/library/lib-entrepreneurship/doc/geie/h andbkde.pdf Andrew From sf@fermigier.com Tue Feb 19 22:43:56 2002 From: sf@fermigier.com (Stefane Fermigier) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:43:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation In-Reply-To: ; from Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 11:20:44PM +0100 References: Message-ID: <20020219234356.H87159@math.jussieu.fr> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 11:20:44PM +0100, Andrew Smart wrote: > Yup, I found something which might be/probably is a sort of european > organisation. >=20 > Possible since 1989; there are currently around 800 so called EWIV (ger= man > abbreviation, something like 'european economical interest association'= ). Thanks for the research, I believe it's the right direction to look into. > The link (105 German pages) > http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/library/lib-entrepreneurship/doc/g= eie/h > andbkde.pdf Also available in french en english (handbkfr.pdf, handbken.pdf). S. --=20 St=E9fane Fermigier, Tel: +33 (0)6 63 04 12 77 (mobile). http://nuxeo.com/ & http://portalux.com/ & http://aful.org/ "Amazon: we patent the dot in .com" From faassen@vet.uu.nl Tue Feb 19 23:18:13 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:18:13 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the wiki moved Message-ID: <20020219231813.GA323@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, Due to some miscommunication a link to our half-baked wiki was included in the Python-URL. I don't want the whole world to run into our wiki; the wiki is not for public consumption at all, even though it is public in the sense that it's open. So I'm renaming the wiki to 'draftwiki' to make everything entirely clear to the futurefuture, and adjust the 'wiki' link to point back to the homepage.. Sorry for the inconvenience, but I can't pull back all those Python-URLs and I don't want people to run into the wiki first thing they see. Regards, Martijn From mvm@brutele.be Tue Feb 19 23:24:15 2002 From: mvm@brutele.be (vincent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:24:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] For your lost time ... Message-ID: <000701c1b99c$8c010b80$3aff44d4@gfx> ... Before you say thank you for your devotion or your job. Second, you say sorry but we looking for a simple mind... See you soon, Your Designer web, Vincent. From dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de Tue Feb 19 23:13:03 2002 From: dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de (dagmar kolb de) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:13:03 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C72DC00.E4F7F3D4@just-ad.de> Hi Martijn, hi Tom since I join the list only since one day, I did not get the beginning in this thread. Just know following mail: Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Tom Deprez wrote: > > I back you up on this Martijn. > > > > I already tried to start some discussion about the webdesign on this list, > > but almost nobody responded (I think only you did). > > At the moment I was thinking on something and now I see somebody did a > > wonderfull job, but damn, no I waisted my time! > > I don't like this to happen, since I already don't have much free time. > > What we basically need is someone to take the lead on this, and who > will make sure everybody is coordinated. They need to nag everybody > and keep track of the status and things that are still missing, and try to > push through some sort of vision. > > Is anyone willing to step forward as one? Tom? > > If a leader is determined for the web and design issues we can put him or her > with big blinking letters on the wiki somewhere, so everybody knows who to > talk to. :) > > Regards, > > Martijn I agree to you, that there should be a leader. As far as I follow the discussion here, there is still a lot to organise and put into a legal form.... I work on the logo, I will keep track of this, of course. But I still do not know who elso does what. For example the webdesign. My only contact so far is Andrew Smart. So if you can give some more infos, do not hesitate to get in touch :-)) If you have any questions about the logo design, print realisation, webdesign ... just send me a mail :-)) cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. Grafik · Photographie · PR · Webdesign Dipl.-Designerin Dagmar Kolb · mobil 0170.86 57 346 mailto dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de · http://www.just-ad.de From dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de Tue Feb 19 23:32:37 2002 From: dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de (dagmar kolb de) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 00:32:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Intro / EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd Message-ID: <3C72E095.18E1A0E5@just-ad.de> Hi everybody, may I introduce myself first? My name is Dagmar (dago) Kolb. I am graphic designer *signature below*, knowing Andrew Smart for quite a while :-)) That is how I stumbled somehow into this python thing *gg* Anyway, nice to be on this list since today. You got the first layouts for the logo and here is the second version. Thanks a lot for your feedback, Marc Balmer, Nicolas Chauvat and Michael Hudson. Look at the new ones, you will like them :-) Sorry, but again I got a mail that I have to wait till the listmaster approves my mail with the attachment. Still too big, though I allready splitted it... Thanks for your patience, this is text only. cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. Grafik · Photographie · PR · Webdesign Dipl.-Designerin Dagmar Kolb · mobil 0170.86 57 346 mailto dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de · http://www.just-ad.de From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 20 00:03:07 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:03:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] press release is ready Message-ID: <20020220000307.GA921@vet.uu.nl> Hi there, Since nobody seems to say that the press release isn't ready for sending, I will just declare it 'ready' and hope the best. So let's go send out some press releases! I've frozen the English version of the press release. You can get a plain text version here: http://www.europython.org/press_releases/d20020215/en Only the English version for now; if the other languages are ready please let me know and I'll add them. The HTML version of the press release on the homepage is generated from the plain text structured text version. A bit clunky, and we should replace the homepage text with something shorter and move the press release off to some sub pages eventually. A reminder that the wiki has moved: http://www.europython.org/draftwiki we can move it back once the Python-URLs have disappeared from most news sites homepages, if desired. Regards, Martijn From Tom Deprez" <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> > What we basically need is someone to take the lead on this, and who will make sure everybody is coordinated. They need to nag everybody > and keep track of the status and things that are still missing, and try to push through some sort of vision. > > Is anyone willing to step forward as one? Tom? Well, I've seen far better designs than I can do myself, so I think I better leave the design to the people with the experience and just work on some technical parts of the web, which I was doing in the first place. But I find it hard to seperate it completely with design stuff :-). So, perhaps it's better to let somebody of the design persons coördinate the web design stuff. If nobody wants to take up, then I might step forward, not that I will be able to bring good input. So far, I know of 2 webdesigners working on EuroPython (If I forget someone, please let me know): dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de mvm@brutele.be Perhaps it's good if the web-designers talk to each other and share their ideas? Regards, Tom. > If a leader is determined for the web and design issues we can put him or her > with big blinking letters on the wiki somewhere, so everybody knows who to > talk to. :) > > Regards, > > Martijn > From all@123piano.com Wed Feb 20 07:53:06 2002 From: all@123piano.com (Philippe Jadin) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 08:53:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <3C7355E2.3040402@123piano.com> Tom Deprez wrote: >Well, I've seen far better designs than I can do myself, so I think I better >leave the design to the people with the experience and just work on some >technical parts of the web, which I was doing in the first place. But I find >it hard to seperate it completely with design stuff :-). >So, perhaps it's better to let somebody of the design persons coördinate >the web design stuff. If nobody wants to take up, then I might step forward, >not that I will be able to bring good input. > They are quite slightly related of course... I'd like to help as well (I'm on http://europython.zope.nl/draftwiki/DesignTeam ). I think we need to settle on some simple conventions for the website "architecture", like for example - one folder per page - a "content" dtml doc in each folder - use standard html headers and footer - have a single index_html file containing : - have a single print dtml method like : From that, we can define some navigational methods, add search, breadcrumbs, etc... The design team should provide those standard html headers and footers, and imho we could work together on the design. Btw, it would ease a lot if the navigation bars were done with html text only (in this case we can autogenerate them). As for the design itself, it would go faster if every designer (or the group of designers) provided some layouts in bitmap format (no need to mess with html at this stage), then we could all vote which one is the best, then implement this design in html/css. In the mean time we can use a minimal design like the one currently there. Does it sounds like a good battleplan ? >So far, I know of 2 webdesigners working on EuroPython (If I forget someone, >please let me know): > >dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de >mvm@brutele.be > you may add philippe@123piano.com :) >Perhaps it's good if the web-designers talk to each other and share their >ideas? > >Regards, Tom. > > >>If a leader is determined for the web and design issues we can put him or >> >her > >>with big blinking letters on the wiki somewhere, so everybody knows who to >>talk to. :) >> >>Regards, >> >>Martijn >> > > > >_______________________________________________ >EuroPython mailing list >EuroPython@python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 20 08:19:23 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:19:23 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew Smart" of "Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:29:02 +0100." References: Message-ID: <200202200819.g1K8JNGo017774@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> > As I wrote today I may have found something which is supported from EU and > already "in use". Some sort of light-weight european society. I have to read > some dull, boring legal stuff I printed out tomorrow, will provide more > informations later. > > Andrew Can we have a URL? Thank you. Laura Creighton From jacek@artymiak.com Wed Feb 20 10:25:56 2002 From: jacek@artymiak.com (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:25:56 -0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <1014119431.3c723c075fc13@webmail.in-berlin.de>; from gherman@darwin.in-berlin.de on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:50:31PM +0100 References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014119431.3c723c075fc13@webmail.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <20020220092556.V26210@skuba.h--y.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 12:50:31PM +0100, Dinu Gherman wrote: > > That should be enough to fill 3 hours :-) > > > > What do you think? > > Have a look in the time schedule to check if there is space > for a dedicated conference track! ;-) :-))) Good idea! > More seriously, you should check www.reportlab.com as they > have quite some of what you list above, including vector > ... > cause of potential license issues... ReportLab is FreeBSD- > licensed). That's a tempting challenge. I don't know their products but I will put that on a TODO list for the FreeMovie project. The licensing issues are less important, as I'm changing the FreeMovie license from GPL to LGPL, which should ease the pain of mixing code. -- Jacek Artymiak writer, author, developer, consultant --------------------------- e-mail: jacek@artymiak.com --------------------------- www: http://www.artymiak.com --------------------------- From jacek@artymiak.com Wed Feb 20 10:33:23 2002 From: jacek@artymiak.com (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:33:23 -0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de>; from bh@intevation.de on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 01:40:56PM +0100 References: <20020219011628.Q26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014102532.3c71fa041fca8@webmail.in-berlin.de> <20020219123714.S26210@skuba.h--y.com> <1014119431.3c723c075fc13@webmail.in-berlin.de> <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Message-ID: <20020220093322.W26210@skuba.h--y.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 01:40:56PM +0100, Bernhard Herzog wrote: > How much interest would there be in a graphics track? There are quite a Count me in for the graphics track. > few graphics projects in Python. In addition to freemovie and reportlab, > there's piddle/sping, PIL, Justs's font-stuff and Sketch (and no doubt > I'm forgetting some). Blender, tdmagic, Alice, RoboFog, ... Python is also used in commercial applications like Caligari trueSpace. -- Jacek Artymiak writer, author, developer, consultant --------------------------- e-mail: jacek@artymiak.com --------------------------- www: http://www.artymiak.com --------------------------- From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 08:39:27 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:39:27 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam: Europython Conf Organisation References: Message-ID: <3C7360BF.7B04AD95@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: > > Hmm... to summarize the replies: > > I think we all agree that the Conference Organisation has to be some sort of > non-profit-society. While it's desirable to form a non-profit organization, we don't have the time for this. In order to become non-profit, one usually has to go through a few hoops to get the official status. More important than the non-profit status is IMHO that the people who will run the conference are legal part of the association and that the aim of that organization is somehow set in stone with a focus on the conference. A close binding to the city of Charleroi would probably be a good idea, if that's possible. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From jacek@artymiak.com Wed Feb 20 10:44:46 2002 From: jacek@artymiak.com (Jacek Artymiak) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:44:46 -0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie In-Reply-To: ; from Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr on Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 03:02:50PM +0100 References: <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> Message-ID: <20020220094446.X26210@skuba.h--y.com> On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 03:02:50PM +0100, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > Sounds like a good idea. To me at least. Unless someone objects, please > create the track in the wiki and add your name there. No objections. I added Python in Computer Graphics track on the tutorial day. -- Jacek Artymiak writer, author, developer, consultant --------------------------- e-mail: jacek@artymiak.com --------------------------- www: http://www.artymiak.com --------------------------- From all@123piano.com Wed Feb 20 08:51:52 2002 From: all@123piano.com (Philippe Jadin) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:51:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Tutorial: Using FreeMovie References: <6q8z9pd4pz.fsf@abnoba.intevation.de> <20020220094446.X26210@skuba.h--y.com> Message-ID: <3C7363A8.50504@123piano.com> Jacek Artymiak wrote: >On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 03:02:50PM +0100, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > >>Sounds like a good idea. To me at least. Unless someone objects, please >>create the track in the wiki and add your name there. >> > >No objections. I added Python in Computer Graphics track on the tutorial day. > count me in as a *very* interested "spectator" philippe From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 08:53:34 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:53:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation References: Message-ID: <3C73640E.39A83825@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: > > Yup, I found something which might be/probably is a sort of european > organisation. > > Possible since 1989; there are currently around 800 so called EWIV (german > abbreviation, something like 'european economical interest association'). Thanks for the research. However, the problem with this form is that only entrepreneurs can be members of such an association. It is not open to people who don't run a business of some sort. I believe that we should ask the city of Charleroi for help here. Perhaps they can come up with a good form and help with getting it up and running fast ?! -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 08:56:50 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:56:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the wiki moved References: <20020219231813.GA323@vet.uu.nl> Message-ID: <3C7364D2.E19A6DED@lemburg.com> Martijn Faassen wrote: > > Hi there, > > Due to some miscommunication a link to our half-baked wiki was included > in the Python-URL. I don't want the whole world to run into our > wiki; the wiki is not for public consumption at all, even though it is > public in the sense that it's open. > > So I'm renaming the wiki to 'draftwiki' to make everything entirely clear > to the futurefuture, and adjust the 'wiki' link to point back to the > homepage.. > > Sorry for the inconvenience, but I can't pull back all those Python-URLs > and I don't want people to run into the wiki first thing they see. Please also make sure that we have daily backups of the content. The information stored in the wiki is starting to become vital for the conference... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 20 09:01:47 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:01:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Budget Team: PathToFollow, Bank Account, Credit Cards, CEO Message-ID: Hi, after some thinking I would suggest the following path: - get more informations about EWIV's parallel: get more informations about non-profit-organisations in Belgium - decision what type of association to found, and where to found => if we have willing people in Belgium / Chareloi then we should found in Belgium if not: take the country where such people exist After the decision: - We need a sort of "CEO" for the association which has primary access to bank account and has the right to sign contracts and so on. => Who is willing to join the association? => Who is willing to be "CEO"? => Who is willing to support the "paper-work"? "Let the cash flow": I think, the easiest way to _get_ the money (contributions) is to use credit cards. It's a bit expensive (i think around 4% commission) but most of the people / companies can pay with CC. Everyone else has to send checkes or has to transfer the money via wire. => we need people with experience with credit card payments? => maybe we can use an existing e-shop/cc contract (EuroZope e.V.?) which "sells" contributions? If we have a bank account, then we should get EC Cards with PIN for the people who have to use cash or have to make direct payments in shops. These EC Cards works almost everywhere in Europe. Additionally the bank account should have some sort of electronic banking (best browser-based) and the (choosen?) members of the society have the right to look into the bank account and the transactions. But not everbody should have the ability to make transactions, though. Andrew From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 20 09:04:19 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:04:19 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation In-Reply-To: <3C73640E.39A83825@lemburg.com> Message-ID: > Marc-Andre Lemburg: > Thanks for the research. However, the problem with this form is > that only entrepreneurs can be members of such an association. > It is not open to people who don't run a business of some sort. As to my knowledge every natural person can be member of a EWIV. All need that you have some sort of economic activity, and organisation of a conference counts as one. As I have written there are existing non-profit-EWIV's. You don't have to be entrepeneur. Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 09:05:01 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:05:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] For your lost time ... References: <000701c1b99c$8c010b80$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <3C7366BD.EED21AA4@lemburg.com> vincent wrote: > > ... Before you say thank you for your devotion or your job. > > Second, you say sorry but we looking for a simple mind... > > See you soon, > > Your Designer web, Vincent. I don't understand: are you disappointed or angry ? I don't think that anyone wanted to upset you or put down your work. The problem is that we should have talked about the design of the web-site *before* having you do any work on it. I believe that we're all sorry for the way this turned out. Again, perhaps you ought to start a conference web design team and open up a wiki page for the design guidelines. Then, after a few weeks, there should be a deadline and after that you are in control. How does that sound ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Feb 20 08:45:54 2002 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:45:54 +0100 Subject: AW: AW: [EuroPython] Budget Questions / Europython Conf Organisation In-Reply-To: <200202200819.g1K8JNGo017774@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: > Can we have a URL? Thank you. > Laura Creighton Please see my following mail, there is the link Andrew From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 09:42:44 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:42:44 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation References: Message-ID: <3C736F94.D76826B2@lemburg.com> Andrew Smart wrote: > > > Marc-Andre Lemburg: > > Thanks for the research. However, the problem with this form is > > that only entrepreneurs can be members of such an association. > > It is not open to people who don't run a business of some sort. > > As to my knowledge every natural person can be member of a EWIV. All need > that you have some sort of economic activity, and organisation of a > conference counts as one. I have my doubts here, since the definition of economic activity usually includes making profit. Reading the document, it seems that the main aim was to raise cooperations between companies to a EU level. > As I have written there are existing > non-profit-EWIV's. This is no contractdiction to the members being profit oriented, IMHO. Let's hope I am wrong since this form of organization does indeed look very promising to what we have in mind. Does anybody have contacts to one of those non-profit EWIVs ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tom.deprez@village.uunet.be Wed Feb 20 09:55:24 2002 From: tom.deprez@village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:55:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <3C7355E2.3040402@123piano.com> Message-ID: <004501c1b9f4$b875a100$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> >They are quite slightly related of course... I'd like to help as well >(I'm on http://europython.zope.nl/draftwiki/DesignTeam ). >I think we need to settle on some simple conventions for the website >"architecture", like for example >- one folder per page >- a "content" dtml doc in each folder >- use standard html headers and footer >- have a single index_html file containing : > > > I agree on all above, exactly what I had in mind, but I was thinking on ZPT, instead of DTML. >- have a single print dtml method like : > > > > From that, we can define some navigational methods, add search, breadcrumbs, etc... yup >The design team should provide those standard html headers and footers, and imho we could work together on the design. >Btw, it would ease a lot if the navigation bars were done with html text only (in this case we can autogenerate them). >As for the design itself, it would go faster if every designer (or the group of designers) provided some layouts in bitmap format (no need to >mess with html at this stage), then we could all vote which one is the best, then implement this design in html/css. In the mean time we can >use a minimal design like the one currently there. >Does it sounds like a good battleplan ? Good battle plan. Does everybody feels comfortable on this? >So far, I know of 3webdesigners working on EuroPython (If I forget someone,please let me know): dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de mvm@brutele.be philippe@123piano.com Regards, Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 09:57:11 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:57:11 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation References: <3C736F94.D76826B2@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C7372F7.31D05A12@lemburg.com> "M.-A. Lemburg" wrote: > > Andrew Smart wrote: > > > > > Marc-Andre Lemburg: > > > Thanks for the research. However, the problem with this form is > > > that only entrepreneurs can be members of such an association. > > > It is not open to people who don't run a business of some sort. > > > > As to my knowledge every natural person can be member of a EWIV. All need > > that you have some sort of economic activity, and organisation of a > > conference counts as one. > > I have my doubts here, since the definition of economic activity > usually includes making profit. Reading the document, it seems that > the main aim was to raise cooperations between companies to a > EU level. If you look at page 45, 2.2, they even explicitly exclude other non-profit organizations from becoming an EWIV member. There's also no mention of non-profit in the document. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de Tue Feb 19 22:29:18 2002 From: dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de (dagmar kolb de) Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 23:29:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd Message-ID: <3C72D1BF.7A79535D@just-ad.de> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------959AAAB37B5CBB8C39D9CFA0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everybody, may I introduce myself first? My name is Dagmar (dago) Kolb. I am graphic designer *signature below*, knowing Andrew Smart for quite a while :-)) That is how I stumbled somehow into this python thing *gg* Anyway, nice to be on this list since today. You got the first layouts for the logo and here is the second version. Thanks a lot for your feedback, Marc Balmer, Nicolas Chauvat and Michael Hudson. Look at the new ones, you will like them :-) cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. 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<3C72DE47.EEE076B@just-ad.de> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------00A286468AC60F899ECABD2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi everybody, here is the second part ogf the new layouts. cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. Grafik · Photographie · PR · Webdesign Dipl.-Designerin Dagmar Kolb · mobil 0170.86 57 346 mailto dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de · http://www.just-ad.de --------------00A286468AC60F899ECABD2B Content-Type: application/pdf; x-mac-type="50444620"; x-mac-creator="4341524F"; name="pythonlogoK3.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Description: Unknown Document Content-Disposition: inline; filename="pythonlogoK3.pdf" JVBERi0xLjINMSAwIG9iag08PA0vVHlwZSAvQ2F0YWxvZw0vUGFnZXMgMiAwIFINPj4NZW5k b2JqDTIgMCBvYmoNPDwNL1R5cGUgL1BhZ2VzDS9Db3VudCAzDS9LaWRzIFszIDAgUiA0IDAg UiA1IDAgUl0NPj4NZW5kb2JqDTMgMCBvYmoNPDwNL1R5cGUgL1BhZ2UNL1BhcmVudCAyIDAg Ug0vTWVkaWFCb3ggWzAgMCA1OTUgODQxXQ0vUmVzb3VyY2VzIDYgMCBSDS9Db250ZW50cyA3 IDAgUg0+Pg1lbmRvYmoNNiAwIG9iag08PA0vUHJvY1NldCBbL1BERiAvVGV4dF0NL0ZvbnQg OCAwIFINPj4NZW5kb2JqDTggMCBvYmoNPDwNL0YwIDkgMCBSDS9GMSAxMCAwIFINPj4NZW5k b2JqDTcgMCBvYmoNPDwNL0xlbmd0aCA5ODY5DS9GaWx0ZXIgWy9BU0NJSTg1RGVjb2RlIC9G bGF0ZURlY29kZV0NPj4Nc3RyZWFtDUdoU0VmYkhicUU6QW9lQkxSY2EnZD4/YkFCaCYuKj9p 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JUST AD. Einfach werben. 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What would it give if the python made a circle and the stars were on the body of the snake. Just an idea, don't know if it would be nice. Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "dagmar kolb de" To: "Europython" Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 11:29 PM Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd Hi everybody, may I introduce myself first? My name is Dagmar (dago) Kolb. I am graphic designer *signature below*, knowing Andrew Smart for quite a while :-)) That is how I stumbled somehow into this python thing *gg* Anyway, nice to be on this list since today. You got the first layouts for the logo and here is the second version. Thanks a lot for your feedback, Marc Balmer, Nicolas Chauvat and Michael Hudson. Look at the new ones, you will like them :-) cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. Grafik · Photographie · PR · Webdesign Dipl.-Designerin Dagmar Kolb · mobil 0170.86 57 346 mailto dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de · http://www.just-ad.de From oli@aragne.com Wed Feb 20 10:26:15 2002 From: oli@aragne.com (Olivier Laurent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:26:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams In-Reply-To: <3C7355E2.3040402@123piano.com> References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <3C7355E2.3040402@123piano.com> Message-ID: <200202201026.ATO63155@mirapoint2.brutele.be> On Wednesday 20 February 2002 08:53, Philippe Jadin wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >Well, I've seen far better designs than I can do myself, so I think I > > better leave the design to the people with the experience and just work > > on some technical parts of the web, which I was doing in the first place. > > But I find it hard to seperate it completely with design stuff :-). > >So, perhaps it's better to let somebody of the design persons coördinate > >the web design stuff. If nobody wants to take up, then I might step > > forward, not that I will be able to bring good input. > > They are quite slightly related of course... I'd like to help as well > (I'm on http://europython.zope.nl/draftwiki/DesignTeam ). > > I think we need to settle on some simple conventions for the website > "architecture", like for example > > - one folder per page > - a "content" dtml doc in each folder > - use standard html headers and footer > - have a single index_html file containing : > > > > > > - have a single print dtml method like : > > > > If you want to go faster and If you like the http://europython.p3b.org layout. I can give access to Tom for example or export the whole site. I'm not talking about colors or logos here but the general layout like tables and the place of things on the page. The site is nearly exactly following the conventions that Tom talked about a few lines above. With the exception that I'm not using structured text. > From that, we can define some navigational methods, add search, > breadcrumbs, etc... I have top and bottom breadcrumbs, a print method but no search capabilities. I also have a simple css style sheet. Each page (Folder) can have two or three (default) columns. It depends on a Folder attibute. Each navigation table (on the left) is a DTML method which lies in a Folder called 'navig'. And each news table (on the right) is an instance of a product of our own. The product is very beta but a DTML method can do the same. A News Entry has some attibutes: an author, a expiration date, an expired boolean, a news summary, a creation date and a format (html or structured text). A news entry can also be 'not visible', 'visible if authenticated' (for testing) or 'validated'. Just tell me if you are interested. -- Olivier Laurent P3B    : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B   : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo  http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 20 10:29:04 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:29:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams In-Reply-To: <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <021e01c1b8d7$50fd46e0$368c84d5@skullsplitter> <20020219142859.GA31290@vet.uu.nl> <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20020220102904.GA2672@vet.uu.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > > What we basically need is someone to take the lead on this, and who will > make sure everybody is coordinated. They need to nag everybody > > and keep track of the status and things that are still missing, and try to > push through some sort of vision. > > > > Is anyone willing to step forward as one? Tom? > > Well, I've seen far better designs than I can do myself, so I think I better > leave the design to the people with the experience and just work on some > technical parts of the web, which I was doing in the first place. But I find > it hard to seperate it completely with design stuff :-). > So, perhaps it's better to let somebody of the design persons co?rdinate > the web design stuff. If nobody wants to take up, then I might step forward, > not that I will be able to bring good input. It isn't just about design (though coordination is needed there too), but the entire technical and infrastructural aspects of the website as well. For instance, the DNS of www.europython.org still hasn't changed to point to the right server, and we're still dealing with redirects, I think. So the in-charge person would do the nagging. On the design issue, the in-charge person would say what designs are good, what needs to be better, keep track of the goals, and get the right people (like the several people we have designing logos so far!) to get in touch with each other. Does anyone feel ready to take care of all of this? It'd take a load off my back, as now it's just rather completely unfocused with parallel activities! And don't worry, I'll still nag the web design and design groups whenever I get worried about something. :) By the way, if web and design teams are not the right split, then this mythical leader should just change it all around according to his or her own insights. > So far, I know of 2 webdesigners working on EuroPython (If I forget someone, > please let me know): > > dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de > mvm@brutele.be > > Perhaps it's good if the web-designers talk to each other and share their > ideas? Yes, that kind of common-sense idea is exactly what we need. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 20 10:33:31 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:33:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] the wiki moved In-Reply-To: <3C7364D2.E19A6DED@lemburg.com> References: <20020219231813.GA323@vet.uu.nl> <3C7364D2.E19A6DED@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020220103331.GC2672@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > > Sorry for the inconvenience, but I can't pull back all those Python-URLs > > and I don't want people to run into the wiki first thing they see. > > Please also make sure that we have daily backups of the content. > The information stored in the wiki is starting to become vital > for the conference... Good idea. I'll ask Ivo for it, and if not, I'll try to come up with a sort of auto-backup script I can run here. Regards, Martijn From faassen@vet.uu.nl Wed Feb 20 10:38:33 2002 From: faassen@vet.uu.nl (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:38:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] For your lost time ... In-Reply-To: <3C7366BD.EED21AA4@lemburg.com> References: <000701c1b99c$8c010b80$3aff44d4@gfx> <3C7366BD.EED21AA4@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <20020220103833.GE2672@vet.uu.nl> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: [snip confusing post from Vincent] > I don't understand: are you disappointed or angry ? I don't > think that anyone wanted to upset you or put down your work. > > The problem is that we should have talked about the design of > the web-site *before* having you do any work on it. I believe > that we're all sorry for the way this turned out. Yes; I wish that had happened too. I should've been more vigilant about this -- I heard various people said they asked various people to do aspects of the design but didn't really track it all down. Should've made sure everybody was aware that they should discuss things with each other. I'm sorry it got so confusing! Regards, Martijn From seb@jamkit.com Wed Feb 20 10:43:17 2002 From: seb@jamkit.com (seb bacon) Date: 20 Feb 2002 10:43:17 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd In-Reply-To: <008701c1b9f8$056a11f0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> References: <3C72D1BF.7A79535D@just-ad.de> <008701c1b9f8$056a11f0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <1014201798.8766.41.camel@bucharin> On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 10:18, Tom Deprez wrote: > Just wondering.... > > What would it give if the python made a circle and the stars were on the > body of the snake. > > Just an idea, don't know if it would be nice. +2 I like that idea too :-) From tom.deprez@village.uunet.be Wed Feb 20 10:57:49 2002 From: tom.deprez@village.uunet.be (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 11:57:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Calling Web and Design teams References: <20020218231710.GA28827@vet.uu.nl> <02ac01c1b9a3$6fcf02d0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <3C7355E2.3040402@123piano.com> <200202201026.ATO63155@mirapoint2.brutele.be> Message-ID: <00b501c1b9fd$e4d9ada0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> Hi Olivier, >If you want to go faster and If you like the http://europython.p3b.org layout. I can give access to Tom for example or export the whole site. I'm >not talking about colors or logos here but the general layout like tables and the place of things on the page. >The site is nearly exactly following the conventions that Tom talked about a few lines above. With the exception that I'm not using structured text. Yes, it would be nice to snip some code :-) But, If I read correctly, you are using DTML? I'm thinking on using ZPT and STX (since all the wiki content is written in STX), but this doesn't mean we can't use code from the P3B site. > From that, we can define some navigational methods, add search, breadcrumbs, etc... > I have top and bottom breadcrumbs, a print method but no search capabilities. > I also have a simple css style sheet. Nice, If we could use this one, then we can easily update the site when the final CSS is ready >Each page (Folder) can have two or three (default) columns. It depends on a Folder attibute. >Each navigation table (on the left) is a DTML method which lies in a Folder called 'navig'. And each news table (on the right) is an instance of a >product of our own. The product is very beta but a DTML method can do the same. A News Entry has some attibutes: an author, a expiration date, an >expired boolean, a news summary, a creation date and a format (html or structured text). A news entry can also be 'not visible', 'visible if >authenticated' (for testing) or 'validated'. >Just tell me if you are interested. We are :-) Tom. -- Olivier Laurent P3B : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org OS3B : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo http://www.os3b.org Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From dario@ita.chalmers.se Wed Feb 20 11:11:11 2002 From: dario@ita.chalmers.se (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:11:11 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] BudgetTeam: Europython Conf Organisation References: <3C7360BF.7B04AD95@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <01cc01c1b9ff$4dff4aa0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> > > > > Hmm... to summarize the replies: > > > > I think we all agree that the Conference Organisation has to be some sort of > > non-profit-society. > > While it's desirable to form a non-profit organization, we > don't have the time for this. In order to become non-profit, one > usually has to go through a few hoops to get the official > status. Not in Sweden. IIRC, as soon as you have a constituent meeting , a signed excerp (sp?) of the protocol describing how the board was elected (and wh= o they are) and a signed document describing who are on the board and who a= re the legal representatives of the association you are official. What takes time is to get the bank account (about 1 day i think). A postgirot accoun= t takes a few more days. > > More important than the non-profit status is IMHO that the > people who will run the conference are legal part of the > association and that the aim of that organization is > somehow set in stone with a focus on the conference. The associations by-laws guarnatee this. An important part of this in Swe= den is that membership be voluntary. Now, if there are *other* reasons for this association to be based in a particular contry, then those reasons should be put forth and explained. Else, does it matter? I say choose the one with least adminstrative buerocracy. /dario - -------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K=E4sten Systems Developer Chalmers Univ. of Technology dario@ita.chalmers.se ICQ will yield no hits IT Systems & Services From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 11:26:29 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:26:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Forming a Europython Conference Organization References: <3C7360BF.7B04AD95@lemburg.com> <01cc01c1b9ff$4dff4aa0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <3C7387E5.2DCC3135@lemburg.com> Dario Lopez-K=E4sten wrote: >=20 > > > > > > Hmm... to summarize the replies: > > > > > > I think we all agree that the Conference Organisation has to be som= e > sort of > > > non-profit-society. > > > > While it's desirable to form a non-profit organization, we > > don't have the time for this. In order to become non-profit, one > > usually has to go through a few hoops to get the official > > status. >=20 > Not in Sweden. IIRC, as soon as you have a constituent meeting , a sign= ed > excerp (sp?) of the protocol describing how the board was elected (and = who > they are) and a signed document describing who are on the board and who= are > the legal representatives of the association you are official. What tak= es > time is to get the bank account (about 1 day i think). A postgirot acco= unt > takes a few more days. In Germany this is similiar. The only extra steps involved are: 1. Get a notary to validate the signature on the document 2. Go to the local registry and get the association registered 3. Send the documents to the IRS for approval Ideally, step 3 ought to be done as step 0. as well to make sure that you get non-profit status. So much for the theory. I've never gone through this process, so it's not clear to me how long it would take (probably 2 months as I know our government authorities...). =20 > > > > More important than the non-profit status is IMHO that the > > people who will run the conference are legal part of the > > association and that the aim of that organization is > > somehow set in stone with a focus on the conference. >=20 > The associations by-laws guarnatee this. An important part of this in S= weden > is that membership be voluntary. >=20 > Now, if there are *other* reasons for this association to be based in a > particular contry, then those reasons should be put forth and explained. > Else, does it matter? I say choose the one with least adminstrative > buerocracy. +1. Who's going to participate in such an association ?=20 I can volunteer as member, but not for the board since I=20 don't have enough time for that. --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de Wed Feb 20 11:20:36 2002 From: dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de (dagmar kolb de) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:20:36 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd References: <3C72D1BF.7A79535D@just-ad.de> <008701c1b9f8$056a11f0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <1014201798.8766.41.camel@bucharin> Message-ID: <3C738684.8B6262FD@just-ad.de> Hi Seb, hi Tom, hi everybody thanks for your feedback :-)) On Wed, 2002-02-20 at 10:18, Tom Deprez wrote: > Just wondering.... > > What would it give if the python made a circle and the stars were on the > body of the snake. > > Just an idea, don't know if it would be nice. +2 I like that idea too :-) But I do not agree to this idea for following reasons: There are two separate elements of the logo with separate importance. The python and the euro stars. Mixing both would cause irritation und misunderstandings. The stars have to build a circle themselves to be recognized as the europa symbol. The snake stands for python itself. It is the main element and can be used for several purposes. Both elements are combined for the event europython conference only in this case! If there was e.g. a national conference, there would be the german flag instead of the stars... If you want to use the logo for python only, it stands alone without the euro stars. Combined with another text possibly... To keep the elements separate gives various ways of using. Creating a logo means to have a basic element. Here: the snake. For each purpose other elements are added, if necessary. The snake will be recognised as a symbol for python in every case. Means: logo->brand->corporate identity. That is what we want, don´t we? cu dago -- JUST AD. Einfach werben. Grafik · Photographie · PR · Webdesign Dipl.-Designerin Dagmar Kolb · mobil 0170.86 57 346 mailto dagmar.kolb@just-ad.de · http://www.just-ad.de From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Feb 20 12:09:00 2002 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:09:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: [EuroPython] European Python Conference Organisation In-Reply-To: <20020219234356.H87159@math.jussieu.fr> Message-ID: > > The link (105 German pages) > > http://europa.eu.int/comm/enterprise/library/lib-entrepreneurship/doc/geie/h > > andbkde.pdf > > Also available in french en english (handbkfr.pdf, handbken.pdf). Read all about it in the wiki on the LegalBody page. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tim@2wave.net Wed Feb 20 13:14:44 2002 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:14:44 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Binaries on the newsgroup Message-ID: <20020220131444.93755.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com> I think that we should avoid posting binaries to the newsgroup. Can we provide an upload directory for them and reference the file in a posting? Tim __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From mvm@brutele.be Wed Feb 20 13:26:41 2002 From: mvm@brutele.be (vincent) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:26:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] What about this logo ??? Message-ID: <005b01c1ba12$3c9a08f0$3aff44d4@gfx> C'est un message de format MIME en plusieurs parties. ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C1BA1A.9D963EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit This a model for the logo... Maybe you prefer this way ? 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References: <005b01c1ba12$3c9a08f0$3aff44d4@gfx> Message-ID: <3C73A718.FFD76258@defrang.com> Hi all, I actually wonder why are you guys trying to reinvent the wheel when there's already a nearly official "Python" text logo used on the python.org website and a really eye-candy Python character provided as an icon in the Python distribution... I guess that most Python users are already used to this visual identity. You (all designers working on logos) could probably leverage these known visual items and combine them with the european flag? Regards, X. ----- blogging & stuff, daily updates >> http://defrang.com From lac@strakt.com Wed Feb 20 13:35:45 2002 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:35:45 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd In-Reply-To: Message from dagmar kolb de of "Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:20:36 +0100." <3C738684.8B6262FD@just-ad.de> References: <3C72D1BF.7A79535D@just-ad.de> <008701c1b9f8$056a11f0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <1014201798.8766.41.camel@bucharin> <3C738684.8B6262FD@just-ad.de> Message-ID: <200202201335.g1KDZkGo018966@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I don't recall ever be=EDng asked for input as to what was to go INTO the logo. This is probably too late, but for the record: I would rather no snakes on it at all. I especially do not want a cartoonish-snake. My basic position is that if there is one person on the planet who can look at the python logo and say 'oooh, that's cute' then my job of marketting is _harder_ not _easier_. The image I want to get across is 'serious professional language suitable for extremely hard professional work'. This icon is not helping. It is too friendly, colloquial, and social for my purposes. This is the icon for 'python is fun, and we are silly folk who like fun and puns'. It is hard to raise money on that platform. Laura Creighton From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 13:47:34 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:47:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Forming a Europython Conference Organization References: <3C7360BF.7B04AD95@lemburg.com> <01cc01c1b9ff$4dff4aa0$4bdf1081@ita.chalmers.se> <3C7387E5.2DCC3135@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3C73A8F6.7E0F1490@lemburg.com> Let's sum up what the requirements are: * We need the legal entity ASAP (within one month !) * If possible, it should be a non-profit organization We may have to be careful here, since the Charleroi city is funding part of the venue, so it may require that the organization has the non-profit status in Belgium (I'm not sure whether they could give money or other goods to an e.g. German or Swedish non-profit org). The bylaws will have to be adapted accordingly. * We'll need a membership structure of the organization. I'd suggest to make Martijn Faassen the president form the board out of the various people responsible for important tasks w/r the conference (budget, local authorities, legal counsil, web-site, etc.). All other conference team members should be permissable as members. * The org will have to setup a bank account quickly, so that a budget can be planned and managed. Sources of income are: - attendence fees - sponsor fees - exhibitor fees - donations Anything else ? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH ______________________________________________________________________ Company & Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Wed Feb 20 13:49:05 2002 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:49:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EUROPYTHON LOGO 2nd References: <3C72D1BF.7A79535D@just-ad.de> <008701c1b9f8$056a11f0$8e8d84d5@skullsplitter> <1014201798.8766.41.camel@bucharin> <3C738684.8B6262FD@just-ad.de> <2