[EuroPython] Revised brochures available

Nicolas Chauvat Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr
Fri, 21 Jun 2002 16:41:24 +0200 (CEST)

On Fri, 21 Jun 2002, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> I'm not interesting in a flame war here and would also welcome
> comments from other people.

Other people please speak up to get this matter cleared out quickly.

> I replied to you yesterday that you should please consult the
> brochure.

That mail got lost then.

> The EuroPython Organization needs more support for the next round.

Sure, more support would be good. But starting the organization of EPC2
right after EPC1 and getting the same support as this time would be enough
for us to get a better one next year. Time was a problem more than good
will and hard work IMHO.
> This event was much too much of a financial risk for P3B.

AFAIK, you're not P3B. Denis chose to take that risk, he is the one to
be thanked for it (and Martijn for the initial idea).

> We only reached a break even about a week ago -- that's 10 days before
> the conference !

Starting the organization of a conference 4 month before its date is very
risky and dangerous... but we all made it and that's something we can be
happy with.

Again, we did not take that much of financial risk. P3B did.

> > Good. If the only purpose of the committee was for the event to happen and
> > was internal organization, why would we need to mention it in the
> > brochure?
> Because these guys are the ones sponsors and investors need to
> talk to. They do have to know they are talking to the right
> persons. This was one of the points we heard
> from potential attendees and companies who criticised
> and turned down on us.

No. You cannot be "the right person" because you decided so. You can be
the one that took care of many important issues and has to get credit for
that, but you cannot hijack the organisation of the conference and tell
potential sponsors and investors "talk to me, I'm the only one in charge

And nothing proves that we need "investors". And if we are to continue
with non-profit organization, we could very well name someone to take care
of sponsors. AFAIK, Denis found sponsors for this year's conference.

If you really want to put a contact, I'm very fine with putting P3B,
without any bios or names.

And I'd be curious about the names of the companies who turned down on us.

> > Here are my suggestions: remove the bios and put in all the names of the
> > people who participated, in alphabetical order, without any details about
> > what they did. If you want me to, I can compile a list from the archives
> > of the mailing list, from the IRC logs, etc.
> That was the intent of the credits page one the last page of the
> brochure. We know that not all people are propely mentioned
> on that page, but didn't get more feedback.

Could it be that people who contributed early on didn't have time to
proff-read the all thing. Is that a good reason for us not to give them
credit for what they did ?

> If you could submit a more complete list, we can try to integrate it
> there.

Well, if you can "try", I'll "try" to provide you with one.

> We can also make the bios less prominent on the team page and add more
> names and bios to the support team section.

My opinion is "just remove them".
> Replacing the complete page with an alphabetic list is not an
> option,

My opinion is "just remove the page".

> because this would not reflect the structure of the EuroPython
> organization which is modelled very much after the Python development
> scheme: BDFL + core team + cast of thousands.

Couple questions here: who decided this and when was it publicly stated ?
Damn, who could be that BDFL, is it Tom or Denis ? Who is part of the core
team ? Where did the the thousands go ?

It sounds so natural when you say this, that I feel stupid asking...

> > As you already know, I sent comments about the brochure within the hour I
> > learned about it on tuesday morning. I did not keep a copy of the brochure
> > that was published on monday, but I'm pretty sure the bios weren't in at
> > the time.
> Believe me: they were in right from the start.

Then I made a mistake in not bringing this up earlier.

> As I said many times before: I don't have a problem with adding more
> credit mentions to the brochure (except maybe for the fact that it
> further delays publishing it).
> Please send us an alphabetical list of name - task combinations
> and we'll put it on the credits page.

You don't have a problem with it except that there is no time left for it,
that "someone" has to do it and that removing the bios is out of the

> If more people think they should be mentioned on the team page, please
> tell us. We certainly don't want any member of the team to be
> misrepresented. You can mail us to europython@p3b.org but it has to be
> within the next few hours, since ReportLab will finalize the brochure
> tonight.
> Gosh, I never knew how hard it would be to keep people happy
> and still organize an event of this size (heck, we're probably
> almost as large as the IPC !).

I'm sure removing the bios to give proper credit would "make people
happy". I didn't hear about Tom and Denis on this list, but I would bet
they wouldn't mind...

And you don't have to keep people happy since you're not "THE" organizer
of the event but "AN" organizer of the event, thus "WE" have to keep
"OURSELVES" happy.

I cannot understand why my point of view seems to be hard to understand...
we organized this as a group. We get credit as a group. We discuss the
organization of next year's conference as a group during EPC1 next week.
And if we agree as a group that you're in charge for next year's
conference and that people get to talk to you, then fine ! But don't try
to make it look like this is mandatory, that it was agreed on long ago and
that not having bios on the front page will lead us to failure.

Another try: what's so difficult with replacing this page with P3B's
contact information displayed as it was on the first press release ?

Quoting it here :

                  Comité d'organisation EuroPython
                  P3B c/o Aragne
                  Boulevard Général Michel 1E
                  B-6000 Charleroi

[then names of contacts per country]

if you want to use an e-mail address, make it europython@p3b.org and turn
it into a semi-public list.

Nicolas Chauvat

http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France)