From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Sun Jan 12 08:07:08 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:07:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] let's start again Message-ID: Dear all, THis is my first mail since the beginning of the year and I wish you all = a=20 very successful year 2003, a very good health (the same for your company = :-),=20 and successfull python and zope projects. I think that is is time to start again the serious and organized work we = need=20 to do to have a EPC2003 (Europython Conference 2003) that is as successfu= l,=20 if not more than the 2002 was. Please look at and contribute=20 http://www.europython.org/draftwiki=20 I especially added=20 http://europython.zope.nl/draftwiki/EuroPython2003 (thanks for the help on the table: I am not a specilist) Besr regards, Nicolas PS sorry for cross-posting, but I think it is intresting to both ML --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.=20 Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - http://www.ael.be=20 From lozinski@jobmart.com Sun Jan 12 17:42:45 2003 From: lozinski@jobmart.com (lozinski@jobmart.com) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 09:42:45 -0800 (PST) Subject: [EuroPython] Europython Conference In-Reply-To: <20030112170007.2890.37447.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <1030112094245.205AAC/q.lozinski@maya> I really like holding them as part of linux conferences. It makes it easy to grow the community. If we hold a separate conference, it will mostly be existing python people, rather than new python people. Regards Christopher Lozinski lozinski@jobmart.com 510 795 6086 (office) 510 599 6086 (cell) From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Sun Jan 12 18:17:21 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:17:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython Conference In-Reply-To: <1030112094245.205AAC/q.lozinski@maya> References: <1030112094245.205AAC/q.lozinski@maya> Message-ID: Le Dimanche 12 Janvier 2003 18:42, lozinski@jobmart.com a =E9crit : > I really like holding them as part of linux conferences. It makes it e= asy > to grow the community. There is the Zope Pavilion during the Solutions Linux but it has also bee= n=20 decided to focus on Python and Zope during these specific conferences > If we hold a separate conference, it will mostly be existing python peo= ple, > rather than new python people. True, but we also need to focus people on some subjects, activities that = are=20 sometimes incompatile to actions that can take place at the larger (in=20 scope)conferences. Having both makes sense to me. My 2 cents :-) Best regards, Nicolas > Regards > Christopher Lozinski > lozinski@jobmart.com > 510 795 6086 (office) > 510 599 6086 (cell) > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.=20 Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - http://www.ael.be=20 From paul@eurozope.org Sun Jan 12 18:24:46 2003 From: paul@eurozope.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Sun, 12 Jan 2003 19:24:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Europython Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20EAFE15-265B-11D7-BF39-003065C7DEAE@eurozope.org> On dimanche, jan 12, 2003, at 19:17 Europe/Paris, Nicolas Pettiaux=20 wrote: > Le Dimanche 12 Janvier 2003 18:42, lozinski@jobmart.com a =E9crit : >> I really like holding them as part of linux conferences. It makes it=20= >> easy >> to grow the community. > > There is the Zope Pavilion during the Solutions Linux but it has also=20= > been > decided to focus on Python and Zope during these specific conferences Yes, and in fact, both of you will be there. :^) >> If we hold a separate conference, it will mostly be existing python=20= >> people, >> rather than new python people. > > True, but we also need to focus people on some subjects, activities=20 > that are > sometimes incompatile to actions that can take place at the larger (in > scope)conferences. > > Having both makes sense to me. Me too. Different audiences. --Paul= From lac@strakt.com Mon Jan 13 14:36:28 2003 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2003 15:36:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] We need to revise the first paragraph on http://www.europython.org/ Message-ID: <200301131436.h0DEaS9o004722@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Quote from it: 'This will be the first major European event dedicated solely to the Python programming language and its applications.' That was last year. I suggest just 'This event will be dedicated ... ' but others may want to stress that the last one was a success we are going to build on, or some-such. Laura Creighton From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Tue Jan 14 19:34:10 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:34:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? Message-ID: I did not see any message on this list for a while, nor any reply to my l= ast=20 post . Has the message been lost ?=20 Am I not connected anymore ? Have you all disappeared ? Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.=20 Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - http://www.ael.be=20 From lac@strakt.com Tue Jan 14 20:57:02 2003 From: lac@strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:57:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Nicolas Pettiaux, your mail appears to be very broken Message-ID: <200301142057.h0EKv2jL010971@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I sent this reply to your message on Europython, and got this back. It seems half-way through sending you mail, your site decided that sending mail to jpetiau@gilmore.ael.be would be more fun, and there is no user jpetiau. My whole bounce follows: Laura Creighton ------- Forwarded Message Return-Path: MAILER-DAEMON Delivery-Date: Tue Jan 14 21:49:44 2003 Received: from gilmore.ael.be (gilmore.ael.be [158.64.60.71]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0EKnhxw020804 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:44 +0100 Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) id A8245173465; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:38 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:38 +0100 (CET) From: MAILER-DAEMON@gilmore.ael.be (Mail Delivery System) Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: lac@strakt.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status; boundary="6E99B17346B.1042577378/gilmore.ael.be" Message-Id: <20030114204938.A8245173465@gilmore.ael.be> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.0 required=5.0 tests=MAILER_DAEMON,SPAM_PHRASE_01_02 version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: This is a MIME-encapsulated message. - --6E99B17346B.1042577378/gilmore.ael.be Content-Description: Notification Content-Type: text/plain This is the Postfix program at host gilmore.ael.be. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The Postfix program : unknown user: "jpetiau" - --6E99B17346B.1042577378/gilmore.ael.be Content-Description: Delivery error report Content-Type: message/delivery-status Reporting-MTA: dns; gilmore.ael.be Arrival-Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:37 +0100 (CET) Final-Recipient: rfc822; jpetiau@gilmore.ael.be Action: failed Status: 5.0.0 Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; unknown user: "jpetiau" - --6E99B17346B.1042577378/gilmore.ael.be Content-Description: Undelivered Message Content-Type: message/rfc822 Received: by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) id 6E99B17346B; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:37 +0100 (CET) Delivered-To: npettiau@gilmore.ael.be Received: from localhost.localdomain (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 217AA173465 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from theraft.strakt.com (theraft.strakt.com [62.119.131.80]) by gilmore.ael.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E17B173465 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:35 +0100 (CET) Received: from ratthing-b246.strakt.com (root@ratthing-b246.strakt.com [62.119.131.74]) by theraft.strakt.com (8.12.3/8.12.3/Debian -4) with ESMTP id h0EKnTxx020788 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NO) for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:49:29 +0100 Received: from strakt.com (lac@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ratthing-b246.strakt.com (8.12.6/8.12.6/Debian-5) with ESMTP id h0EKjCjL010862 for ; Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:45:12 +0100 Message-Id: <200301142045.h0EKjCjL010862@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 To: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Subject: Re: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:34:10 +0100." References: Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 21:45:12 +0100 From: Laura Creighton X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-0.2 required=8.0 tests=CARRIAGE_RETURNS,IN_REP_TO,REFERENCES,SPAM_PHRASE_00_01 version=2.43 X-Spam-Level: I saw you. I posted something to EuroPython on Monday. Did you see it? The list is very quiet. Laura Creighton ps like your Gandhi quote a lot. - --6E99B17346B.1042577378/gilmore.ael.be-- ------- End of Forwarded Message From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Wed Jan 15 07:19:40 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 08:19:40 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Nicolas, no your message hasn't been lost. But currently there is so much to do that I don't have the time to reply in time. I hope this will get better, I'm loosing contact... :-)) Regards, Andrew > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython-admin@python.org]Im > Auftrag von Nicolas Pettiaux > Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Januar 2003 20:34 > An: europython@python.org > Betreff: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? > > > I did not see any message on this list for a while, nor any reply > to my last > post . > > Has the message been lost ? > > Am I not connected anymore ? > > Have you all disappeared ? > > Nicolas > -- > Nicolas Pettiaux > "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. > Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi > > Association électronique libre pour la promotion des > droits de l'Homme dans la Société de l'information (AEL) - > http://www.ael.be > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Wed Jan 15 08:33:19 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 09:33:19 +0100 Subject: AW: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Le Mercredi 15 Janvier 2003 08:19, Andrew Smart a =E9crit : > Hi Nicolas, > > no your message hasn't been lost. But currently there is so much to do = that > I don't have the time to reply in time. I understand > I hope this will get better, I'm loosing contact... :-)) Thank yo for the short message anyway. Regards, Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.=20 Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - http://www.ael.be=20 From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 15 10:22:29 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:22:29 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? References: Message-ID: <011601c2bc80$0212af90$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Andrew Smart wrote: > Hi Nicolas, > > no your message hasn't been lost. But currently there is so much to > do that I don't have the time to reply in time. > I hope this will get better, I'm loosing contact... :-)) I think you're not the only one at the moment. Tom. > Regards, > Andrew > > > >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: europython-admin@python.org [mailto:europython- >> admin@python.org]Im Auftrag von Nicolas Pettiaux >> Gesendet: Dienstag, 14. Januar 2003 20:34 >> An: europython@python.org >> Betreff: [EuroPython] anyone living out there ? >> >> >> I did not see any message on this list for a while, nor any reply >> to my last >> post . >> >> Has the message been lost ? >> >> Am I not connected anymore ? >> >> Have you all disappeared ? >> >> Nicolas >> -- >> Nicolas Pettiaux >> "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you. >> Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi >> >> Association électronique libre pour la promotion des >> droits de l'Homme dans la Société de l'information (AEL) - >> http://www.ael.be >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> EuroPython mailing list >> EuroPython@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython >> > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From mal@lemburg.com Wed Jan 15 19:03:54 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:03:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Archiving EPC 2002 Website In-Reply-To: <3E0C40C5.9080001@lemburg.com> References: <20021218022058.GO15896@carolo.net> <00bf01c2aa67$bdc876a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E0C40C5.9080001@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3E25B09A.4060508@lemburg.com> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >>> Can the europython site be changed to let the world know that it >>> takes palce at that time ... and that we are wroking on the >>> preparation of the event ? >> >> >> I made some very small changes. >> I hope Vincent is able to make some changes to the graphics concerning >> the >> date. > > > Before recrafting the whole web-site to apply to 2003 may I suggest > that we keep a copy of the 2002 web-site under a new URL, e.g. > http://www.europython.org/2002/ ?! Could someone knowledgeable please take care of this ? Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mal@lemburg.com Wed Jan 15 19:14:31 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:14:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 Message-ID: <3E25B317.6010705@lemburg.com> Tim Couper and I would like to volunteer as track chairmen for the EPC 2003 Business Track. Apart from that I won't be joining in for anything like the Executive Committee this year. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Tom Deprez" <20021218022058.GO15896@carolo.net> <00bf01c2aa67$bdc876a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E0C40C5.9080001@lemburg.com> <3E25B09A.4060508@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <020501c2bced$9f8fd5f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Marc, It has been done... ie a backup has been made a week or 2 ago (when you first asked it)... I didn't had time to move it and I'm not sure if it will be that easy, ie concerning certain products (like the ones of Joachim). But anyway the backup is made and we could move it under another folder (2002), if needed. Regards, Tom. M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> Tom Deprez wrote: >> >>>> Can the europython site be changed to let the world know that it >>>> takes palce at that time ... and that we are wroking on the >>>> preparation of the event ? >>> >>> >>> I made some very small changes. >>> I hope Vincent is able to make some changes to the graphics >>> concerning the >>> date. >> >> >> Before recrafting the whole web-site to apply to 2003 may I suggest >> that we keep a copy of the 2002 web-site under a new URL, e.g. >> http://www.europython.org/2002/ ?! > > Could someone knowledgeable please take care of this ? > > Thanks, From mal@lemburg.com Thu Jan 16 08:41:15 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2003 09:41:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Archiving EPC 2002 Website In-Reply-To: <020501c2bced$9f8fd5f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> References: <20021218022058.GO15896@carolo.net> <00bf01c2aa67$bdc876a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E0C40C5.9080001@lemburg.com> <3E25B09A.4060508@lemburg.com> <020501c2bced$9f8fd5f0$8901a8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <3E26702B.4010909@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Marc, > > It has been done... ie a backup has been made a week or 2 ago (when you > first asked it)... I didn't had time to move it and I'm not sure if it > will be that easy, ie concerning certain products (like the ones of > Joachim). But anyway the backup is made and we could move it under > another folder (2002), if needed. Great, thanks. -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tim@2wave.net Fri Jan 17 11:59:43 2003 From: tim@2wave.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Tim=20Couper?=) Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:59:43 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 In-Reply-To: <20030116170008.6638.4486.Mailman@mail.python.org> Message-ID: <20030117115943.16660.qmail@web41112.mail.yahoo.com> AS well as assisting Marc in that role, I would also be willing to be an "anchor man" for the main meetings, with notices, introductions, jokes, and any other "runtime" elements (like getting projectors ....(as last year)). Tim > Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 20:14:31 +0100 > From: "M.-A. Lemburg" > Organization: eGenix.com Software GmbH > To: EuroPython Mailing List > Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 > > Tim Couper and I would like to volunteer as track > chairmen > for the EPC 2003 Business Track. > > Apart from that I won't be joining in for anything > like the > Executive Committee this year. > > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH > Digest __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com From nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be Sat Jan 18 07:29:07 2003 From: nicolas.pettiaux@ael.be (Nicolas Pettiaux) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 08:29:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 In-Reply-To: <3E25B317.6010705@lemburg.com> References: <3E25B317.6010705@lemburg.com> Message-ID: Le Mercredi 15 Janvier 2003 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : > Tim Couper and I would like to volunteer as track chairmen > for the EPC 2003 Business Track. Thank you.=20 Before stating my point about your interesting proposal, I would like to = know=20 the answer to some questions I have like (not limited to)=20 * how do you see this business track in the overall EPC2003 schedule ? * What actions do you plan to take relate to the actions of chairing the=20 EPC2003 Business Track. (EBT) * who would be the public for EBT * how do you plan to attract such a public * what will you propose him as business value * where would your public come from (types of companies as well as=20 geographical origin) * how large do you expect the business public to be and why=20 Thanks > Apart from that I won't be joining in for anything like the > Executive Committee this year. thanks again for the job you did last year. Nicolas --=20 Nicolas Pettiaux "First they ignore you. Then they laugh at you.=20 Then they fight you. Then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi Association =E9lectronique libre pour la promotion des=20 droits de l'Homme dans la Soci=E9t=E9 de l'information (AEL) - http://www.ael.be=20 From mal@lemburg.com Sat Jan 18 16:16:33 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 18 Jan 2003 17:16:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 In-Reply-To: References: <3E25B317.6010705@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3E297DE1.10800@lemburg.com> Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: > Le Mercredi 15 Janvier 2003 20:14, M.-A. Lemburg a =E9crit : >=20 >>Tim Couper and I would like to volunteer as track chairmen >>for the EPC 2003 Business Track. >=20 > Thank you.=20 >=20 > Before stating my point about your interesting proposal, I would like t= o know=20 > the answer to some questions I have like (not limited to)=20 >=20 > * how do you see this business track in the overall EPC2003 schedule ? We're open to suggestions here. I think that last year has shown the business track to be a popular track and we intend to grow on that. > * What actions do you plan to take relate to the actions of chairing th= e=20 > EPC2003 Business Track. (EBT) The same we took last year: make sure that everything works out and that the quality of talks is assured. > * who would be the public for EBT People interested in using Python in business projects; last years audience was largely composed of such people -- both from the customer and the project management camp. > * how do you plan to attract such a public Basically using the same mechanisms as last year (press releases, announcements on mailing lists, etc.). Since we now have the PBF, we could also use their resources to attract more business people. We think that last years event has shown that EPC is a usable platform for inviting interested business parties, i.e. the conference atmosphere is very professional and the quality of talks high. This makes EPC an ideal platform for introducing customers to Python and its offerings. > * what will you propose him as business value Getting to know Python, meeting business people in the field, exchanging experiences, etc. > * where would your public come from (types of companies as well as=20 > geographical origin) Since EPC is a European event, we're mostly reaching out to the European community. As for types of companies, this is hard to say. Last year we had mostly people from smaller companies; though, I'd really like to see a few Fortune500 companies presented there too. I think that the final goal should be the company scope of recent IPC conferences, that is the whole range from small companies with high profile up to the big players such as Disney. > * how large do you expect the business public to be and why=20 This really depends on how companies will begin to use EPC as platform. Last year had few customers on site -- I guess mainly because it wasn't clear yet what kind of conference EPC would turn out to be. We expect this to change starting this year. Now, I'm curious about your point :-) --=20 Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de Tue Jan 21 09:58:21 2003 From: Andrew.Smart@smart-knowhow.de (Andrew Smart) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 10:58:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsored support for EPC 03 Message-ID: Hi folks, since I'm not able to help out myself personally I will help out organisation of the EPC 03 with sponsored (wo)manpower. Silke is working for me and very good (better than me ;-) in organizing things. She will be helping out EPC 03 conference organisation in the next 2 months. She is no computer geek, so that she won't be able to help out in scripting, HTML-coding, database administration or such things. But she has already organized several conferences and events and comes from the "practical side" of life. She will appear on the mailing list in short time and introduce herself. Regards, Andrew From tom@aragne.com Tue Jan 21 10:11:42 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 21 Jan 2003 11:11:42 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Sponsored support for EPC 03 References: Message-ID: <006601c2c135$7f3c9760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Great! Thanks Tom. Andrew Smart wrote: > Hi folks, > > since I'm not able to help out myself personally I will help out > organisation of the EPC 03 with sponsored (wo)manpower. > Silke is working for me and very good (better than me ;-) in > organizing things. She will be helping out EPC 03 conference > organisation in the next 2 months. > > She is no computer geek, so that she won't be able to help out in > scripting, HTML-coding, database administration or such things. But > she has already organized several conferences and events and comes > from the "practical side" of life. > > She will appear on the mailing list in short time and introduce > herself. > > Regards, > Andrew > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From mal@lemburg.com Fri Jan 24 22:06:48 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 24 Jan 2003 23:06:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Business Track EPC2003 In-Reply-To: <3E297DE1.10800@lemburg.com> References: <3E25B317.6010705@lemburg.com> <3E297DE1.10800@lemburg.com> Message-ID: <3E31B8F8.6060203@lemburg.com> M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Nicolas Pettiaux wrote: >>> Tim Couper and I would like to volunteer as track chairmen >>> for the EPC 2003 Business Track. >> Thank you. >> Before stating my point about your interesting proposal, I would like >> to know the answer to some questions I have like (not limited to) >> ... > > Now, I'm curious about your point :-) Ok, I'll take that as: go ahead, please :-) Tom mentioned that he has backed up the current site, so I think it's time to keep the copy under www.europython.org/2002/, and free up the talk database for 2003. Should we use the wiki for talk organization, etc. ? In that case, we'd also need a fresh copy of that for 2003. Any takers ? Please let me know when Tim and I can start hunting down Python pros for some nice business talks. Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From tom@aragne.com Tue Jan 28 16:20:12 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:20:12 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website Message-ID: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi all, Ok, it took quiet some time to find free time for working on the EuroPython website. But it's getting urgent and I found some spare time. As told, I already made a backup of 2002. I now imported it back under the folder '2002', so it can rest there forever. (perhaps some modifications are needed, but we can look at those later) I decided not to change the layout or move to Plone, etc. It would probably take too much time from me, which I don't have at the moment and I think the site still looks nice (my opinion). Perhaps later we make the switch. Meanwhile I contacted Amaze.nl and they are still willing to be the provider for EPC 2003. Further I contacted Joachim Smitz (Aixtraware) who made the online registration and talk database, last year. He rewrote his product completely and will make the transition this week (first the zope instance has to be upgraded to a newer version). Further he is also going to make a call for paper form, which allows you to enter a paper online. The paper will be stored in the new talks database and will automatically receive the status 'suggested' If this is finished all the track champions can start working on getting people's papers. Further, does someone has an idea of the owner of 'www.europython.org'? Were some people working on it to get it for EuroPython? I experience some slowness of the site, which I hope we can resolve soon. So, in short : the europython website people are back in the running. Are the others ready? Regards, Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Tue Jan 28 16:28:53 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:28:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030128162853.GG27628@logilab.fr> On Tue, Jan 28, 2003 at 05:20:12PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > So, in short : the europython website people are back in the running. Are > the others ready? I'm willing to take care of the science track once again. I also would like to revive the idea of getting actual end-users (as opposed to hackers) of Python come a talk about their personnal experience. I think it would be nice to have a track like "I meant to use java, but company X convinced me to use python instead and I am a happy customer". -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From mal@lemburg.com Wed Jan 29 09:10:20 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:10:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3E379A7C.3080300@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi all, > > Ok, it took quiet some time to find free time for working on the EuroPython > website. But it's getting urgent and I found some spare time. > > As told, I already made a backup of 2002. I now imported it back under the > folder '2002', so it can rest there forever. (perhaps some modifications are > needed, but we can look at those later) Thanks. > I decided not to change the layout or move to Plone, etc. It would probably > take too much time from me, which I don't have at the moment and I think the > site still looks nice (my opinion). Perhaps later we make the switch. Good move :-) > Meanwhile I contacted Amaze.nl and they are still willing to be the provider > for EPC 2003. > > Further I contacted Joachim Smitz (Aixtraware) who made the online > registration and talk database, last year. He rewrote his product completely > and will make the transition this week (first the zope instance has to be > upgraded to a newer version). > Further he is also going to make a call for paper form, which allows you to > enter a paper online. The paper will be stored in the new talks database and > will automatically receive the status 'suggested' What will happen with the 2002 entries in that database ? > If this is finished all the track champions can start working on getting > people's papers. Actually, I think that we're more into talks than papers. Time's too short for complete reviews anyway and I don't expect anyone willing to go through this work-intense setup. > Further, does someone has an idea of the owner of 'www.europython.org'? > Were some people working on it to get it for EuroPython? I experience some > slowness of the site, which I hope we can resolve soon. > > So, in short : the europython website people are back in the running. Are > the others ready? -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From js@aixtraware.de Wed Jan 29 09:17:11 2003 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:17:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> --On Dienstag, Januar 28, 2003 17:20:12 +0100 Tom Deprez =20 wrote: > Hi all, > > Ok, it took quiet some time to find free time for working on the > EuroPython website. But it's getting urgent and I found some spare time. > > As told, I already made a backup of 2002. I now imported it back under = the > folder '2002', so it can rest there forever. (perhaps some modifications > are needed, but we can look at those later) > > I decided not to change the layout or move to Plone, etc. It would > probably take too much time from me, which I don't have at the moment and > I think the site still looks nice (my opinion). Perhaps later we make the > switch. While working on the call-for-papers form, I tried to understand the=20 software-layout of the EuroPython site, and it looks too complicated to me. Is the Localizer-setup there state of the art, or wouldn't it be better to=20 switch to i18n support there ? > > Meanwhile I contacted Amaze.nl and they are still willing to be the > provider for EPC 2003. > > Further I contacted Joachim Smitz (Aixtraware) who made the online Schmitz > registration and talk database, last year. He rewrote his product > completely and will make the transition this week (first the zope > instance has to be upgraded to a newer version). > Further he is also going to make a call for paper form, which allows you > to enter a paper online. The paper will be stored in the new talks > database and will automatically receive the status 'suggested' > > If this is finished all the track champions can start working on getting > people's papers. > > Further, does someone has an idea of the owner of 'www.europython.org'? > Were some people working on it to get it for EuroPython? I experience = some > slowness of the site, which I hope we can resolve soon. > > So, in short : the europython website people are back in the running. Are > the others ready? > > Regards, > Tom. > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen H=FCsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 Keyserver: http://www.keyserver.net/en/ From gotcha@swing.be Wed Jan 29 09:56:27 2003 From: gotcha@swing.be (Godefroid Chapelle) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 10:56:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> Message-ID: <3E37A54B.4050506@swing.be> Joachim Schmitz wrote: > > While working on the call-for-papers form, I tried to understand the=20 > software-layout of the EuroPython site, and it looks too complicated=20 > to me. > > Is the Localizer-setup there state of the art, or wouldn't it be=20 > better to switch to > i18n support there ? As far as I know, it is not state of the art. But I have no idea how=20 difficult it would be to switch to i18n TAL. > > Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmit= z > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 29 10:22:31 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 11:22:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> Message-ID: <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > While working on the call-for-papers form, I tried to understand the > software-layout of the EuroPython site, and it looks too complicated > to me. > > Is the Localizer-setup there state of the art, or wouldn't it be > better to switch to > i18n support there ? Nope, it isn't the state of the art. It was added after the site was mostly build. What do you mean with i18n? The support for i18n included in the latest releases of Zope 2.x? For my part, the i18n may be made different in the 2003 version of EuroPython. Most text has to be translated again, so this work has to be done anyway and as far as I know, it doesn't mind which tool to use. However, I don't know anything of the i18n support in Zope2.x, I do know that the translations were quickly made with the use of Localizer, so we can say that localizer is an easy tool. Tom. From j-david@noos.fr Wed Jan 29 12:09:53 2003 From: j-david@noos.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Juan_David_Ib=E1=F1ez_Palomar?=) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:09:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> Tom Deprez wrote: >>While working on the call-for-papers form, I tried to understand the >>software-layout of the EuroPython site, and it looks too complicated >>to me. >> >>Is the Localizer-setup there state of the art, or wouldn't it be >>better to switch to >>i18n support there ? >> >> > >Nope, it isn't the state of the art. It was added after the site was mostly >build. What do you mean with i18n? The support for i18n included in the >latest releases of Zope 2.x? > >For my part, the i18n may be made different in the 2003 version of >EuroPython. Most text has to be translated again, so this work has to be >done anyway and as far as I know, it doesn't mind which tool to use. >However, I don't know anything of the i18n support in Zope2.x, I do know >that the translations were quickly made with the use of Localizer, so we >can say that localizer is an easy tool. > >Tom. > > > The switch to the i18n tal namespace could help. Note that you still need a backend, Localizer+TranslationService is an option, maybe there are others. The other multilingual part is the content, here it will be harder to find alternatives to Localizer. Actually, this was the most problematic part, the problem are the applications that are built without i18n in mind, you can just add i18n at the end. For example, the ZPatterns based applications were the hardest thing to internationalize. Anyway, if we want to support non latin-1 langauges, an update to Zope 2.6 and Localizer 1.0 should be done. Another suggestion, no more images with localizable text. I hope to help with the i18n as I did last year, I expect to have time later in February. Another important thing, the 2002 web site should live in a different Zope instance. Otherwise it is very likely we will break it when we build the 2003 web site (because of software updates, etc..) Once this is done, I think the site should migrate to Zope 2.6 and Localizer 1.0, the TranslationService product should be installed too. And please, anybody developing an application for the web site, think about i18n. Best regards, -- J. David Ibáñez, http://www.j-david.net Software Engineer / Ingénieur Logiciel / Ingeniero de Software From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Jan 29 12:20:27 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:20:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> Message-ID: <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 01:09:53PM +0100, Juan David Ibáñez Palomar wrote: > Once this is done, I think the site should migrate to Zope 2.6 > and Localizer 1.0, the TranslationService product should be > installed too. If we do this, I suggest we omve to Plone 1.0 which will be released next week. As it is a complete Content Management System, sharing tasks and rights will be much easier. We could even give access to people that want to give talks for them to update their contact info, presentation abstract, etc. thus distributing the work and reducing the workload even further. Yes, I'm willing to help to set things up. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 29 12:42:09 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:42:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> Message-ID: <018701c2c793$d6e113b0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> > The switch to the i18n tal namespace could help. Note that > you still need a backend, Localizer+TranslationService is > an option, maybe there are others. Interesting to hear. > The other multilingual part is the content, here it will be > harder to find alternatives to Localizer. Actually, this was > the most problematic part, the problem are the applications > that are built without i18n in mind, you can just add i18n > at the end. For example, the ZPatterns based applications > were the hardest thing to internationalize. Well, Joachim made a new version of his product which makes the ZPatterns dependency obsolete. So this is good news for i18n > Anyway, if we want to support non latin-1 langauges, an > update to Zope 2.6 and Localizer 1.0 should be done. Plans are under the way. On Joachim's request we move first to 2.5.1, so he can make a transition of the older information and then we upgrade to 2.6 > Another suggestion, no more images with localizable text. Can you give an example on what you mean or how to solve it (my i18n experience is low!) > I hope to help with the i18n as I did last year, I expect > to have time later in February. Great! Nice to hear! > Another important thing, the 2002 web site should live in a > different Zope instance. Otherwise it is very likely we will > break it when we build the 2003 web site (because of software > updates, etc..) I'll see if this is possible. I hope Amaze is willing to give us two instances. > Once this is done, I think the site should migrate to Zope 2.6 > and Localizer 1.0, the TranslationService product should be > installed too. Will do. As said above, we first go to 2.5.1 than probably to 2.6 > And please, anybody developing an application for the web site, > think about i18n. Do you have any information etc on what the things are we need to keep in mind? Some sort of i18n style guide. This is important for people not used to make i18n projects. Tom. From js@aixtraware.de Wed Jan 29 12:46:02 2003 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 13:46:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> Message-ID: <84740000.1043844362@[10.2.1.1]> --On Mittwoch, Januar 29, 2003 13:09:53 +0100 Juan David Ib=E1=F1ez Palomar = wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >>> While working on the call-for-papers form, I tried to understand the >>> software-layout of the EuroPython site, and it looks too complicated >>> to me. >>> >>> Is the Localizer-setup there state of the art, or wouldn't it be >>> better to switch to >>> i18n support there ? >>> >>> >> >> Nope, it isn't the state of the art. It was added after the site was >> mostly build. What do you mean with i18n? The support for i18n included >> in the latest releases of Zope 2.x? >> >> For my part, the i18n may be made different in the 2003 version of >> EuroPython. Most text has to be translated again, so this work has to be >> done anyway and as far as I know, it doesn't mind which tool to use. >> However, I don't know anything of the i18n support in Zope2.x, I do know >> that the translations were quickly made with the use of Localizer, so = we >> can say that localizer is an easy tool. >> >> Tom. >> >> >> > > The switch to the i18n tal namespace could help. Note that > you still need a backend, Localizer+TranslationService is > an option, maybe there are others. Do you have an example, where the i18n namespace is used in "pure" Zope=20 i.e. without CMF or Plone ? > > The other multilingual part is the content, here it will be > harder to find alternatives to Localizer. Actually, this was > the most problematic part, the problem are the applications > that are built without i18n in mind, you can just add i18n > at the end. For example, the ZPatterns based applications > were the hardest thing to internationalize. My new product AixtraTables does not use ZPatterns anymore, and I intend to = build in support for Localizer. > > Anyway, if we want to support non latin-1 langauges, an > update to Zope 2.6 and Localizer 1.0 should be done. Another > suggestion, no more images with localizable text. >From what I read in the Localizer INSTALL.txt Localizer 1.0 also works with Zope 2.5.1, if a patch is applied. > > I hope to help with the i18n as I did last year, I expect > to have time later in February. > > Another important thing, the 2002 web site should live in a > different Zope instance. Otherwise it is very likely we will > break it when we build the 2003 web site (because of software > updates, etc..) I agree, but it may be hard to get two Zope instances for free. > > Once this is done, I think the site should migrate to Zope 2.6 > and Localizer 1.0, the TranslationService product should be > installed too. > > And please, anybody developing an application for the web site, > think about i18n. > > > Best regards, > > -- > J. David Ib=E1=F1ez, http://www.j-david.net > Software Engineer / Ing=E9nieur Logiciel / Ingeniero de Software > > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen H=FCsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 Keyserver: http://www.keyserver.net/en/ From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 29 13:07:14 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:07:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> Once this is done, I think the site should migrate to Zope 2.6 >> and Localizer 1.0, the TranslationService product should be >> installed too. > > If we do this, I suggest we omve to Plone 1.0 which will be released > next week. As it is a complete Content Management System, sharing > tasks and rights will be much easier. To be honoust I'm not a Plone addict... Also while you have everything else, we still need to change the look of it (to the EuroPython site now), so this means... more time I have to put in. Further, I'm not sure, but thus Plone not require that you have a certain version of a browser? I don't like that at all... Since on the internet a lot of different browsers and versions of browsers exist. You can debate on the fact why people don't upgrade, but people are free to use whatever they want. I also don't know how Joachims products work in Plone. Joachim can give you more on this. > We could even give access to people that want to give talks for them > to update their contact info, presentation abstract, etc. thus > distributing the work and reducing the workload even further. Yes, this is interesting. But see above, my strongest objection is that you need certain browsers and versions. Perhaps I'm wrong here, if so, tell me. But I don't want to get messages everyday telling me that the site doesn't look nice or doesn't work on somebody's browser. > Yes, I'm willing to help to set things up. But of course, if people insist on having plone, I'm willing to help the move. Tom. From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 29 13:15:14 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:15:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <84740000.1043844362@[10.2.1.1]> Message-ID: <01c401c2c798$75c24ea0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> >> Another important thing, the 2002 web site should live in a >> different Zope instance. Otherwise it is very likely we will >> break it when we build the 2003 web site (because of software >> updates, etc..) > > I agree, but it may be hard to get two Zope instances for free. Question is already asked to Amaze. I'm waiting for their response, but I would understand them if they say 2 is too much. At least the database information (talks, etc) will still exist if we only have one instance (which is the most important). If the old site is needed, we can then always upgrade it to the new instance (after 2003 is more or less ready) Tom. From mal@lemburg.com Wed Jan 29 13:37:24 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:37:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] ACCU Conference (Python UK) Message-ID: <3E37D914.6050907@lemburg.com> Just thought you might be interested how ACCU manages these conferences: I especially like he sponsorship page because of its great detail. Perhaps the organizers could steel some ideas :-) -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Jan 29 13:58:08 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 14:58:08 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:07:14PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > Yes, this is interesting. But see above, my strongest objection is that you > need certain browsers and versions. Perhaps I'm wrong here, if so, tell me. You are. That's what plone skins are meant for: adapt to the browser. I checked with people on the #plone channel and was told that plone is *fully*functionnal* with Netscape 4. It does not look as good as Mozilla 1.2, but it works. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From js@aixtraware.de Wed Jan 29 14:09:39 2003 From: js@aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:09:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> I just viewed the www.plone.org with Netscape 4, and your right it's=20 functional and readable, but it looks ugly. --On Mittwoch, Januar 29, 2003 14:58:08 +0100 Nicolas Chauvat=20 wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:07:14PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: >> Yes, this is interesting. But see above, my strongest objection is that >> you need certain browsers and versions. Perhaps I'm wrong here, if so, >> tell me. > > You are. That's what plone skins are meant for: adapt to the browser. > > I checked with people on the #plone channel and was told that plone is > *fully*functionnal* with Netscape 4. It does not look as good as Mozilla > 1.2, but it works. > > -- > Nicolas Chauvat > > http://www.logilab.com - "Mais o=F9 est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris > (France) > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmitz -------------------------------------------------------------------- AixtraWare Ingenieurb=FCro f=FCr Internetanwendungen H=FCsgenstr. 33a, D-52457 Aldenhoven Telefon: +49-2464-8851, FAX: +49-2464-905163 -------------------------------------------------------------------- Key fingerprint =3D DA10 CC82 62F8 1DBB 39A1 1EDC 725B 3317 A8D7 C3A6 Keyserver: http://www.keyserver.net/en/ From paul@eurozope.org Wed Jan 29 14:31:19 2003 From: paul@eurozope.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:31:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <5503BD04-3396-11D7-B189-000393C2939A@eurozope.org> On Wednesday, Jan 29, 2003, at 14:58 Europe/Paris, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 02:07:14PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: >> Yes, this is interesting. But see above, my strongest objection is >> that you >> need certain browsers and versions. Perhaps I'm wrong here, if so, >> tell me. > > You are. That's what plone skins are meant for: adapt to the browser. > > I checked with people on the #plone channel and was told that plone is > *fully*functionnal* with Netscape 4. It does not look as good as > Mozilla 1.2, > but it works. Yes, that's the strategy of CSS. With a market share of under 3% (somewhere around there), it simply doesn't justify the effort to maintain a standards-version of your site, and a NS4.7-- version of your site. People that disagree are usually the ones not responsible for managing the design. :^) --Paul From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Jan 29 14:31:16 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 15:31:16 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> Message-ID: <20030129143116.GC3857@logilab.fr> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 03:09:39PM +0100, Joachim Schmitz wrote: > I just viewed the www.plone.org with Netscape 4, and your right it's > functional and readable, but it looks ugly. Quite possible. The solution would then be to adapt the NS4 skin to make it look nicer for our europython website. In any case, we would have to rewrite skins to make europython look like europython and not like the standard plone site. But porting the current layout/colors to a plone skin should not be too hard. I would bet on one day of work, less with the help of people who've done it before. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Wed Jan 29 15:02:55 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:02:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> <20030129143116.GC3857@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi, Well, looks like several people like the plone approach... I'm not that a favorite, but if most people are willing, so be it... We first have to know if we get 2 zope instances... Let's vote: Who wants to make of EuroPython another Plone site? Yes: No: >> I just viewed the www.plone.org with Netscape 4, and your right it's >> functional and readable, but it looks ugly. What about IE 4.0, Opera, KDE Browser ? > Quite possible. The solution would then be to adapt the NS4 skin to > make it look nicer for our europython website. ... well, then it has to be done with someone used to work with CSS. > In any case, we would have to rewrite skins to make europython look > like europython and not like the standard plone site. > > But porting the current layout/colors to a plone skin should not be > too hard. I would bet on one day of work, less with the help of > people who've done it before. Also for people who aren't used with Plone? Will it then also be less than one day? PS. One day = probably longer for most of us, since it has to be done in free time :-) PS. I still don't know why people are now all jumping on plone. For me, it's just another Zope product, which is a great product, but also brings some incompatibilities with normal Zope products forth (which is not that great and makes me afraid to go too much away from the Zope core). But hey, that's another discussion :-) From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Wed Jan 29 15:10:57 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:10:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> <20030129143116.GC3857@logilab.fr> <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030129151057.GG3857@logilab.fr> On Wed, Jan 29, 2003 at 04:02:55PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > if we get 2 zope instances... In case we couldn't I may try to set something up via the PBF. > Who wants to make of EuroPython another Plone site? > > Yes: +1. > >> I just viewed the www.plone.org with Netscape 4, and your right it's > >> functional and readable, but it looks ugly. > > What about IE 4.0, Opera, KDE Browser ? Just tried lynx on www.plone.org and it's pretty readable. For me, that's the most you can ask for. Once again, it's just a matter of stylesheet, it's not specific to plone. If we write a EuroPython skin, we'll have to make sure it displays nicely. > PS. I still don't know why people are now all jumping on plone. For me, it's > just another Zope product, which is a great product, but also brings some > incompatibilities with normal Zope products forth (which is not that great > and makes me afraid to go too much away from the Zope core). But hey, that's > another discussion :-) Plone is to CMS what Python is to programming languages: try it. -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From j-david@noos.fr Wed Jan 29 17:06:55 2003 From: j-david@noos.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Juan_David_Ib=E1=F1ez_Palomar?=) Date: Wed, 29 Jan 2003 18:06:55 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <84740000.1043844362@[10.2.1.1]> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <84740000.1043844362@[10.2.1.1]> Message-ID: <3E380A2F.9080106@noos.fr> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030903070306020806060909 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Joachim Schmitz wrote: > > > --On Mittwoch, Januar 29, 2003 13:09:53 +0100 Juan David Ibáñez > Palomar wrote: > >> >> The switch to the i18n tal namespace could help. Note that >> you still need a backend, Localizer+TranslationService is >> an option, maybe there are others. > > > Do you have an example, where the i18n namespace is used in "pure" > Zope i.e. without > CMF or Plone ? > There is nothing special about it (attached a simplistic example) >> >> The other multilingual part is the content, here it will be >> harder to find alternatives to Localizer. Actually, this was >> the most problematic part, the problem are the applications >> that are built without i18n in mind, you can just add i18n >> at the end. For example, the ZPatterns based applications >> were the hardest thing to internationalize. > > > My new product AixtraTables does not use ZPatterns anymore, and I > intend to build in > support for Localizer. > good >> >> Anyway, if we want to support non latin-1 langauges, an >> update to Zope 2.6 and Localizer 1.0 should be done. Another >> suggestion, no more images with localizable text. > > >> From what I read in the Localizer INSTALL.txt Localizer 1.0 also >> works with > > Zope 2.5.1, if a patch is applied. > Maybe, never tested it myself, Florent Guillaume knows. For sure, the upgrade could be done in several steps: 1. move to Zope 2.5.1 2. move to Zope 2.6 3. move to Localizer 1.0 Regards, -- J. 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Being images they are much more difficult to internationalize and localize. >>And please, anybody developing an application for the web site, >>think about i18n. >> >> > >Do you have any information etc on what the things are we need to keep in >mind? >Some sort of i18n style guide. This is important for people not used to >make i18n projects. > > > Basically, for the interfaces, if you use ZPT then just use the i18n namespace syntax, Localizer would be the backend and TranslationService is the glue that makes ZPT and Localizer work together. For the localizable content (example, the description of a talk), you have to provide a version for each language and a web interface to change them. Then, when requested you have to send the right language version based on a language negotiation policy, to be consistent the same language negotiation system must be used across all the web site, I guess this means to use the Localizer language negotiation services. It is also posible to use the facilities provided by Localizer to implement the storage and maybe the web interfaces of the different language versions for the content, for example the LocalPropertyManager class, etc.. I'm sorry I'm not going to write the documentation here, but feel free to make any particular question. >Tom. > > > >_______________________________________________ >EuroPython mailing list >EuroPython@python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > -- J. David Ibáñez, http://www.j-david.net Software Engineer / Ingénieur Logiciel / Ingeniero de Software From mal@lemburg.com Thu Jan 30 00:02:14 2003 From: mal@lemburg.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 01:02:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> <20030129143116.GC3857@logilab.fr> <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <3E386B86.602@lemburg.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > Well, looks like several people like the plone approach... I'm not that a > favorite, but if most people are willing, so be it... We first have to know > if we get 2 zope instances... > > Let's vote: > > Who wants to make of EuroPython another Plone site? > Yes: No: x Never change a working system... there are more important things to care about, like e.g. setting up the tracks, placing track chairmen in charge, getting the word out, finding sponsors, etc. But you know all that... -- Marc-Andre Lemburg CEO eGenix.com Software GmbH _______________________________________________________________________ eGenix.com -- Makers of the Python mx Extensions: mxDateTime,mxODBC,... Python Consulting: http://www.egenix.com/ Python Software: http://www.egenix.com/files/python/ From mwh@python.net Thu Jan 30 09:57:11 2003 From: mwh@python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2003 09:57:11 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Website In-Reply-To: <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> ("Tom Deprez"'s message of "Wed, 29 Jan 2003 16:02:55 +0100") References: <029d01c2c6e9$2289a1c0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <71920000.1043831831@[10.2.1.1]> <007f01c2c780$555a0760$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <3E37C491.8060207@noos.fr> <20030129122026.GB560@logilab.fr> <01a601c2c797$58155f60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030129135808.GA3857@logilab.fr> <94500000.1043849379@[10.2.1.1]> <20030129143116.GC3857@logilab.fr> <03e201c2c7a7$80b3fb60$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <2mhebrm03s.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: > Who wants to make of EuroPython another Plone site? > > Yes: > No: The only people who should be allowed to vote in this are the people who are offering the time and skills to run the website, i.e. not me. If they think plone will save them time, produce a better site, etc then lets use it. If it's just another cool toy, let's not. Cheers, M. -- C is not clean -- the language has _many_ gotchas and traps, and although its semantics are _simple_ in some sense, it is not any cleaner than the assembly-language design it is based on. -- Erik Naggum, comp.lang.lisp From tom@aragne.com Fri Jan 31 12:58:51 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 13:58:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] 2 Zope instances! Message-ID: <00ab01c2c928$8129a4a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Hi all, Amaze provided us 2 Zope instances!! The new one contains the old data, so we can start on the move and forget the EP 2002 compatibilities issues for a while. The new instance can be found here: http://hosting.zope.nl:8108 It isn't coupled to a domain at the moment, that we can do after we've a working EP 2003. Tom. From Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr Fri Jan 31 13:03:43 2003 From: Nicolas.Chauvat@logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:03:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] 2 Zope instances! In-Reply-To: <00ab01c2c928$8129a4a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <00ab01c2c928$8129a4a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Message-ID: <20030131130343.GC31495@logilab.fr> On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 01:58:51PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi all, > > Amaze provided us 2 Zope instances!! The new one contains the old data, so > we can start on the move and forget the EP 2002 compatibilities issues for a > while. > > The new instance can be found here: http://hosting.zope.nl:8108 > > It isn't coupled to a domain at the moment, that we can do after we've a > working EP 2003. Shoudl we start right away with plone then ? -- Nicolas Chauvat http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, Paris (France) From tom@aragne.com Fri Jan 31 13:23:27 2003 From: tom@aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2003 14:23:27 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] 2 Zope instances! References: <00ab01c2c928$8129a4a0$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> <20030131130343.GC31495@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <00ec01c2c92b$f0af9250$b36da8c0@uz.kuleuven.ac.be> Well, At the moment we had 1 vote for and another against. I'm also in favor not to move it, since the site works and I'm afraid that changing it would take too much time. I need to get into Plone myself and since I don't know anything about it, it can take time. Joachim also prefers to use the old site first. I've nothing much against Plone, but we started too late (yes, again, sorry, but this is voluntary work :-)). Let us first concentrate that talks can be submitted, etc... later we can still move to Plone (even after the congress, ie for the next congres), but at least we have a EP 2003 ready . Tom. Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > On Fri, Jan 31, 2003 at 01:58:51PM +0100, Tom Deprez wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> Amaze provided us 2 Zope instances!! The new one contains the old >> data, so we can start on the move and forget the EP 2002 >> compatibilities issues for a while. >> >> The new instance can be found here: http://hosting.zope.nl:8108 >> >> It isn't coupled to a domain at the moment, that we can do after >> we've a working EP 2003. > > Shoudl we start right away with plone then ? > > http://www.logilab.com - "Mais où est donc Ornicar ?" - LOGILAB, > Paris (France) > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython