[EuroPython] EP 2004 decision rather quickly?

[Magnus Lyckå]

At 03:37 2003-07-04 +0200, Denis wrote:
>For the first part, track chairmen did a good job : I didn't stick my
>nose in the program (though I sometimes think I should do).
>But for the second part, no local team candidate showed up. So, I don't
>quite understand why there should be any last minute turnaround.

I don't understand what you mean by "last minute turnaround".

As far as I understand, there was an offer from Göteborg to
arrange next years EuroPython. It seems to me that they spoke
quite a bit about that in Charleri, and I though you were present
at some time when Laura and I talked about it, but my memory might
be playing tricks here.

The Strakt people have been involved in arranging similar events
for many years. I first met Jacob Hallén in 1982. At that time
the event he was involved with was maybe similar in size to
EuroPython, but it grew a lot, and he had a central role in those
arrangements for many years.

I don't know how much he's involved these days, but that event still
happens every year (since 1977), and it gathers about 1000 visitors
each year now. Over the years, several other people at AB Strakt
have worked with the arrangement of this event as well. (I was really
surprised last year when I found out that these guys where python
programmers now.)

I don't know Dario Lopez-Kästen, but I think the Strakt people do,
and he obviously has prior experience in arrangine conferences at
Chalmers as well.

I understand that they believe that they can arrange EPC, and that
large parts of the arrangements are prepared. Jacob even quoted exact
prices for inexpensive lodging at a central place in Göteborg,
on walking distance from the planned location. They had plans for
exact locations of the talks, as well as for sprints etc. I guess
it's better that someone at Strakt explains what they are planning
though.

>I don't want to fight against my friends (and will it or not, Martijn, I
>count you among them).
>I just want to fight to make Python "10 times bigger" (TM Paul Everitt)

Agreed!

>The biggest obstacle in reaching our goal with both first EPC editions
>was that we started far too late. If we don't start now, it will be too
>late again in 2004.

I agree that it's good to get started soon, but I don't see that
there is a problem to let this take a week or two.

>I don't want to loose our precious time for 2004 by starting now a call
>for candidates, discuss the candidatures, set up a pool, etc.

There have been two offers to arrange EPC 2004: Oxford and Göteborg.
This was openly discussed on the mailing list in late April.

M-A Lemburg wrote that "Tim Couper told me about the possibility to
do such an event in or near Oxford, UK, using college factilities." See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2003-April/002879.html
I heard no clear reiteration of that in Charleroi. If Tim is eager,
he's very subtle...

Dario Lopez-Kästen offered to arrange it at Chalmers, the technical
university in Göteborg, and a very suitable location for EPC. See
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2003-April/002894.html

Considering what you are writing now, I suppose there could have been
more communication than there have been, but you can't expect everybody
to be aware of what you wrote in a single email in November last year,
or that they should absolutely agree. Noone commented on that proposal
in November or later as far as I can see in the archives, and I don't
understand how you are thinking if you imagine that there was some
kind of decision or consensus about your idea of a close collaboration
between the 2003 and 2004 arrangers, or that those who have offered
to do 2004 has somehow not lived up to expectations. It seems to me
that they are much further ahead in their planning not than you were
a year ago.

What happened was that Marc-Andre basically ended the discussion on
April 29 by saying "Great ! Let's discuss this at in 58 days :-)"
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2003-April/002901.html
I can't see that you objected against that.

Noone object to that then, and if you felt that a more clear and formal
dicussion about EPC 2004 should have taken place in or before Charleroi,
you certainly had the chance to do that.

>But I
>would be glad to do such a thing for 2005. For me, candidates should not
>only declare themselves, but work hard on one year edition if they are
>volunteering for the next one.

Having done the same job well before is certainly a good way to show ones
worth, but there are other ways to show dedication and capability. We're
after all talking about the company where Alex Martelli, Laura Creighton
and Jacob Hallén works... I trust that they *will* do it if they offer to
do it.

At least Alex have been an appreciated contributor to EuroPython this year.
I seem to have seen a lot of involvement from Laura as well. Laura and
Jacob were obviously very busy negotiating with Andy Robinson's ReportLab
during EuroPython which you might have heard, and they have also started
to build up the Python Business Forum during the time since last EuroPython.
As far as I understand, they were very involved in the PyPy sprint just
before EuroPython. They also run one of the major Python companies, and for
instance, they sponsored the UK Python conference at the ACCU Conference.
Right now I suppose they might be on their way to OSCON, where at least Alex
and Laura will talk during next week.

One big advantage for Jacob and the others at Strakt is that they
already have all the contacts they need to arrange this in Göteborg.
That is an advantage in Göteborg, but it doesn't mean that they would
be able to offer more than anyone else for an arrangement in Charleroi
or any other place. I don't see that they would be more or less capable
of fixing the conference in Göteborg if they have been involved more
with this years EuroPython web site etc.

I doubt that they will offer to do EPC2004 if their proposal would be
considered hostile though. I'm sure they have much better things to
do than to fight over this. I feel a bit sad now, because I feel
that the preparations for 2004 have gotten a poor start this way.

Göteborg could have been a great place to host Europython 2004.
Not that Chareroi is bad, but I honestly think Göteborg could have
been even better. This is not because the Strakt people would do a
better job than the Aragne people, but because the conference rooms
would be better, sprints could run in the same locations, there would
be 20 Euro rooms on walking distance from the conference, and the city
of Göteborg would also be on walking distance from the conference,
with all it has to offer, from Scandiavias best amusement park for
the playful, one of the worlds best concert halls for the musical,
the nice southern archipelago that can be reached with a plain
"bus" ticket etc etc. Sure, it's further to travel if you live in
Belgium or France, but Ryanair flies there from London, Frankfurt and
Glasgow, as well as most other major airlines. There are ferries from
UK, Denmark and Germany directly to Göteborg, and so on.

We also have common root with many of you. Wallonians built the city
in the 17th century (to defend us against the Danes) and later, the
trade and industry was dominated by people from the U.K, especially
Scotland. Actually, the church next to which Rob Roy is buried is
an exact copy of the church that brewer master Carneige built for
his workers in the Göteborg harbour. After all, if you're a Scotsman
and have paid the architect...why not build one more copy of the
church in your old home village...


--
Magnus Lycka (It's really Lyckå), magnus@thinkware.se
Thinkware AB, Sweden, www.thinkware.se
I code Python ~ The Agile Programming Language