[EuroPython] EPC as an EuroPython Association SIG

[Denis Frère]

Le Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 04:06:13AM +0200, Dario Lopez-Kästen pianota:

(I'm adding these lines after I wrote the mail : though I'm answering to
Dario, this is not personal for him. Through Dario, I'm speaking to all
of you who feel concerned and answering to various previous mails).

> It is also clear that so far, volunteering to organise the EPC means, worst
> case, a big personal financial and cerdibility risk, because there is no
> legal entity behind the EPC taking all the heat - just a bunch of
> individuals trying to make a conference. This, in general, makes organising
> the EPC a risky business on many levels.

Not so risky nowadays, the risk was much higher when we didn't know how
many visitors we could have. Now, we have a rather good idea, we have
had two 'live' market studies.
But this is another story, let's keep to the topic.

> [...]
> All of the above, imho, should lead us to the obvious conclusion: we need to
> formalise the way the EuroPython Community organises itself. For various
> reasons, we need the structure and strength that a formal entity can give
> us.

As Tom said : a formal entity is not the urgent point if it doesn't
define the way of decision making in its bylaws.

For example, now, we would have to decide if we need a formal
organisation/association and if yes, which one (at least 3 kinds have
been proposed). But how shall we decide on that first point ?
Everybody runs and the first one to come back with any legal entity
rules ?

PBF has been created this way, almost the same way as we announced
EPC2004 : quickly, after a few informal discussions, no real vote, ...
The quickest on the ball has won. Will you do the same here ?

I could also say that the formal entity exists : you know it, it's P3B.
Just become members of P3B and everything is fine. We just have to
rename it EPA if you want. (That's not my actual proposition, but that
is one possible proposition too).

So the point is : how shall we democratically decide what is democracy
in a EP association. How shall we decide on the decision process without
having a decision process defined ? Hackers love recursive games don't
they ?

> The only thing required to form an EPA based on the above, is to
> announce a meeting, hold the meeting and elect a board, form the sig,
> and presto.

Perhaps that you'll also need the acceptance of your rules by that
vaguely defined community.

I also would like to ask that you (all) don't exclude too many people
because :
- they are on hollidays for the moment
- they are working hard and don't follow the mailing-list
- they have no time to keep chatting
- they haven't read all Magnus's mails yet ;-)
- they are not very fluent with English and don't dare to step in the
  discussion
- etc.

English fluency, for example, is a tyranic rule we have to live with.
I can remember some of you, Democrats, killing softly another guy who
couldn't defend his point smartly enough because of the language
knowledge (lack of ...). See how the Greeks are poorly represented in
our european association. Happy those who are fluent enough, for the
other ones : "Vae victis" (that's Latin).

Conclusion : democracy is a difficult exercise. We'll have to find a
real *consensus* for having a good start. I guess we aren't done with
it before some time, but in the end, I'm glad our announce led to the
discussion.

Denis

-- 
Denis FRERE
P3B    : Club Python(-Zope) Belge --------- http://www.p3b.org
OS3B   : Club Open-Software(-Linux) Carolo  http://www.os3b.org 
Aragne : Python-Zope Solutions & Formations http://www.aragne.com