From magnus at thinkware.se  Mon Mar  1 04:35:18 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Mon Mar  1 04:35:28 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBBY2NvbW9kYXRpb24gcHJpY2VzIA==?=
Message-ID: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready.

When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people
are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's
good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they
will have space there, or need to look at another place.

Since this is mainly 2- and 4-bed rooms, I was also wondering
how things work with prices for a non-full room. Do you have
to rent a full room, or can you expect an unknown room mate
if you just book one bed or what?


> We got an even better rate than listed on their website
For the teddybears as well? ;)

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar  1 08:22:58 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar  1 08:23:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today
Message-ID: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com>

The meeting is today at 18.00 CET on the #europython channel att the freenode 
IRC network.

I planned for this meeting to be different. Since we are behind schedule with 
getting the website up and getting the promotion materials sent, I'd like to 
make most of this meeting a working party to get things finished.

However, there are some issues to start with:

AGENDA
A. Introductions, if any

B. Information/Decision items 
After surprisingly strong response to the tutorials questionaire, I think the 
only reasonable decision is that we should have tutorials, and that they 
should be during the conference at no extra cost. We should have a basic 
Python tutorial and a number of others. We have lots of volunteers for lots 
of interesting subjects.

C. Progress reports
- Food (Laura)
- Keynote speakers (Jacob)

D. Urgent discussion/action items
Release of EP information.

E. Followups

F. Other items 


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar  1 08:57:40 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar  1 08:57:51 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?= <jacob@strakt.com> 
	of "Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:22:58 +0100."
	<200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> 
References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> 
Message-ID: <200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

>C. Progress reports
>- Food (Laura)
>- Keynote speakers (Jacob)
>
>D. Urgent discussion/action items
>Release of EP information.
>
>E. Followups
>
>F. Other items 

I want to add 't-shirts' here, because I told Vincent Mahon I would
show people his new design for a tshirt, which I like.

Laura

From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar  1 09:18:09 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar  1 09:18:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today 
In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> of "Mon,
	01 Mar 2004 14:57:40 +0100."
	<200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> 
References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com>
	<200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> 
Message-ID: <200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:57:40 +0100, Laura Creighton writes:
>>C. Progress reports
>>- Food (Laura)
>>- Keynote speakers (Jacob)
>>
>>D. Urgent discussion/action items
>>Release of EP information.
>>
>>E. Followups
>>
>>F. Other items 
>
>I want to add 't-shirts' here, because I told Vincent Mahon I would
>show people his new design for a tshirt, which I like.
>
>Laura

I forgot.  Is there a way to stick a JPEG on a wiki?

Laura

From steve at z3u.com  Mon Mar  1 09:27:15 2004
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Mon Mar  1 09:27:41 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today
In-Reply-To: <200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com>
	<200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <20040301142715.GH15280@fridge.pov.lt>


> I forgot.  Is there a way to stick a JPEG on a wiki?

I think you can just use an <img> tag, like in HTML.

I have sent you a username and password to upload images.

--
Steve Alexander


From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar  1 16:19:15 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar  1 17:01:28 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
Message-ID: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>

Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions 
about how this Plone thingie works:

1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site 
wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site?

2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site?

3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both 
the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant.

4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers 
and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't 
register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying 
"Register here", we have failed badly.

5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days 
when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we 
have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. 
This event should only cover 1 May.

6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC 
2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site?

Jacob


From bea at webwitches.com  Tue Mar  2 01:31:46 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Tue Mar  2 01:29:43 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <1078209106.4236.12.camel@ogg>

On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 22:19, Jacob Hall?n wrote:
> Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions 
> about how this Plone thingie works:
> 
> 1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site 
> wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site?

That can be taken away without any problem if that is wanted (I agree
with it but not every one may...)
> 
> 2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site?

Yes and no. The navigation is there for that, but the tabs at the top
can be made for things you want a direct link for. They are put in my an
admin, most probably Dario or me, currently.

> 3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both 
> the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant.

Because they currently are. The left navigation shows the folders. The
top tabs show what you (ie we) tell them to.

> 4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers 
> and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't 
> register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying 
> "Register here", we have failed badly.

Joachim said that the paper submission requires that one registers
first. That can be changed, but it would put a lot of safety in
question. He had to leave yesterday at some stage, but no one else
reacted when he and I discussed it. So we should talk about this now.

> 5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days 
> when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we 
> have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. 
> This event should only cover 1 May.

We had nothing else yet and these were tests Dario and I made to test
the input results. You are correct, they should only set the final day.

> 6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC 
> 2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site?

That is an excellent question. I think that all the folders with 2004
info should be available at the root of the navigation, but then a
discussion began about why the folders had been set like this, meaning
for reusability of the site in the future. I put A-Z there because it
was the only spontaneous thought I had on how to move the folder with
the current conference to the top. It is still silly, I agree. All the
info inside it should be seen first and at the top. It is all the
general info at the bottom that makes it confusing, because you don't
know if you should click on "about 2004" or "about "ep".

I wanted to move all the rest of the information into folders like
"general" and "past" so that people can see 2004 as the obvious choice,
but I was overruled :)

As a first step, we can make top tabs to point to the obvious directions
you want people to take, e.g. accommodation, but also others. How does
that sound?

bea


-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 02:25:38 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 02:25:57 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>

Jacob Hall?n wrote:

> Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions 
> about how this Plone thingie works:
> 
> 1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site 
> wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site?

yes, it is a standard Plone thngie, that we just haven't removed yet.

> 2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site?

Yes and no. The Navigation box will show the puslished folder structured 
to the user, but it wont show the individual pages. This is a setting 
that can be changed, however (imo) it would be preferable that the main 
page of each folder was used to link to the rest of the pages. For instance:

http://plone.org/documentation/

the nav box here only shows the folders that are available under 
documentation. These folders are the "main areas" of the /documentation 
folder strutcture. The main page (the 'index_html' page) of the 
/documentation folder, however, has links ti the individual documents.

> 3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both 
> the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant.

This is defined on a portal level. The tabs may, for instance, 
correspond to the root level folder structure, i.e. if it is decided 
that the portal should not use the Nvigation box, the the tabs can be 
used to provide links to the "main sections" of the portal.

The tabs are also usefull to provide a link to "meta-parts" of the 
portal. For instance the 'news' tab will always work even if there is no 
'news' folder. It simply points to a template that displays all 
available news. The same can be done for other things, ie talks, papers, 
interviews, etc.

> 4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers 
> and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't 
> register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying 
> "Register here", we have failed badly.

Can you elaborate? What is wrong with registering to the conference in 
general? I.e. by registering to the site you register to the conference, 
either as submitter or participant. This is not a bad thing imo - it al 
depends on what semnatics we attach to the act of registering.

Also, there is an important distinction that we have not made clear yet 
- were to draw the line between the EuroPython Society (EPS) and the 
EuroPython Conference (EPC), arraangeed by the EPS.

The site is constructed as being the EPS site, with the most important 
and prominent feature of it being the current EPC.

So som of the discussed features spring from this distinction, for 
instance registering.

Note however that the registering form may be as simple or as 
complicated as we wish. To get back to your question, do we have reason 
to believe that people whose paper is not accepted won?t be coming at 
all to the conference?

> 5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days 
> when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we 
> have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. 
> This event should only cover 1 May.

Uh? That is not what i see here and not the way we set it up...

ah, i see. this is a bug in the display code for the Plone calendar. The 
  event is in fact 0 (zero) minutes long but the (stupid) calendar 
displays it as a month long event. We are looking into it, but for the 
tie being pelase make such milestone-kind of events exatly one minute 
long, for display reasons.


> 6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC 
> 2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site?

Well, yes. We had a lengthy discussion on this on irc a couple of weeks ago.

I ****REALLY*** would like to point out the fact that *EVERYBODY* was 
suppopsed to have come back to us with feedback and observations like 
"should it really look this/that way" for the past 3 weeks. Not now, 
but, like, last week at the latest.

Now, the focus should of course be to makig things better, so we are 
open to any alternative suggestions that may arise. However, merely 
asking whether something should look like that or not without a 
couterproposal will get very few things done.

The way it was setup up previously was like this:

EPC 2004 at the top, it being a symlink to /conferences/epc2004

however, since it opened up the navigation box in the bottom half, it 
was deemed to be unusually hard for visitors to understand, thus it was 
changed to be the way it is now.

It is not the best solution but the best so far. Any opinions on 
alternative ways of doing this, please give them *NOW* so that we have a 
chance to change it.

> Jacob

Apologies for the somewhat harsh tone of this mail, it is not directed 
at you personally, but to the list in general - it is bad style to 
ignore bea's pleas for feedback during three weeks and then, when 
everybody suddenly realises that "shit, we need to have the website 
online yesterday" all kinds of opinions, some not so nicely presented, 
come flying by.

But, like I said - focus is on getting a great website, so keep those 
questions and suggestions coming.

/dario



From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 02:28:56 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 02:29:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more
Message-ID: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se>

hello,

I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the 
following two things fixed.

1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with plone

2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at 
monday (a 1 char  change in the product code)

3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with 
reStrecturedText.

Ok, so that was three things :-)

Cheese,

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From francesco at reflab.it  Tue Mar  2 04:39:59 2004
From: francesco at reflab.it (Francesco Ciriaci)
Date: Tue Mar  2 04:40:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Tutorials questionaire
In-Reply-To: <200402231937.i1NJbpVM018877@enzo.strakt.com>
References: <200402231937.i1NJbpVM018877@enzo.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <200403021040.17982.francesco@reflab.it>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi!

> 1. Are you likely to attend Europython?
>
> Yes/No/Only if there are tutorials I'd like to go to.

Yes.

> 2. What topics would you be interested in? How much would you be ready
> to pay for such a tutorial?

Topics: Workflow, Content Management, Zope Business

I don't think I would pay more than 15 euros for a tutorial

> 3. When would it be most suitable for you to participate in a tutorial?
> Please rank the alternatives.
> a. Friday 4 June
> b. Saturday 5 June
> c. Sunday 6 June
> d. During the conference
> e. When it doesn't conflict with my Sprint
> f. Thursday 10 June

e.

> 4. Would you be willing to give a tutorial?  On what subject(s)?

Yes. 
I'like to present CMF/Plone new paradigm for Content Managed web applications 
(how many applications should are made of contents?)

> 5. Is there any other input you would like to give us?

Very important for me: give some space/time/attractiviness also to business 
around Python/Zope/Plone. The very bad of last EPC was lack of "business side 
of the Zope".

> More information about Europython 2004 will be available shortly at
> http://www.europython.org.

Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to? thanks.

.francesco ciriaci

- -- 
Francesco Ciriaci - REFLAB
Cell. +39 333 4284675
www.reflab.com
www.reflab.org
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From js at aixtraware.de  Tue Mar  2 05:59:50 2004
From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz)
Date: Tue Mar  2 04:59:38 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices
In-Reply-To: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>
References: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de>

Hi,

Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35:
> Laura Creighton wrote:
> 
>>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready.
> 
> 
> When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people
> are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's
> good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they
> will have space there, or need to look at another place.
I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to
handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far:

1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the
conference first.

2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed
in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you.

3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do
the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of
the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have
registered for the conference before.

4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people
can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we
can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and
secure way.


That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly
easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome.


-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en                                Joachim Schmitz
......................................................................
AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851
H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163



From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 05:52:09 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 05:52:43 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings 
In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=
	<dario@ita.chalmers.se> of "Tue,
	02 Mar 2004 08:25:38 +0100." <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> 
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> 
Message-ID: <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>


The level of resentment I experience when I have to make a password to
do something I want is so intense that I often decide it's not worth it.
In the case of conferences, it means that I either won't go or just show
up.  I don't know how many people resent passwords as much as I do;
many people do not care because they save them all on their laptops, and
figure if they lose their laptop, their life is over anyway, so <shrug> :-)

We have several things we want people to be able to do:

indicate that they are coming

indicate food allergies & vegetarian status

pay for the conference

sign up for a sprint 

sign up for a tutorial

submit a tutorial

submit a talk

submit a referred paper

pay for the conference

reserve rooms through us at SGS bost?der -- also for their families and
   other significant people they are bringing

Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you
fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_.  I don't want them to
have to log in in addition to all of the above.  That is just
irritating.  Logins, in my opinion, are for people who want to
participate in the creation of the website, not for people who just
want to use the thing..

Laura


From bea at webwitches.com  Tue Mar  2 06:23:01 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Tue Mar  2 06:19:37 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices
In-Reply-To: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de>
References: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>
	<40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de>
Message-ID: <1078226581.2320.13.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 11:59, Joachim Schmitz wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35:
> > Laura Creighton wrote:
> > 
> >>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready.
> > 
> > 
> > When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people
> > are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's
> > good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they
> > will have space there, or need to look at another place.
> I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to
> handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far:
> 
> 1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the
> conference first.
> 
> 2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed
> in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you.
> 
> 3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do
> the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of
> the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have
> registered for the conference before.
> 
> 4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people
> can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we
> can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and
> secure way.
> 
> 
> That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly
> easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome.

As far as I am concerned, you thought of all eventualities. I suppose
that of people have a preference on how to share rooms they should take
it upon themselves to also clear the payment, don't you think? so yes, I
think you're fine.

regards

bea



-- 

"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
B?atrice Fontaine
Fabriksgatan 7 - SE 96131 Boden
Tel +46 921 15045 GSM +46 70 640 2773


From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 06:55:02 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 06:55:17 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices 
In-Reply-To: Message from Joachim Schmitz <js@aixtraware.de> 
	of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100." <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> 
References: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>
	<40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> 
Message-ID: <200403021155.i22Bt2eB021302@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes:
>Hi,
>
>Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35:
>> Laura Creighton wrote:
>> 
>>>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready.
>> 
>> 
>> When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people
>> are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's
>> good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they
>> will have space there, or need to look at another place.
>I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to
>handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far:
>
>1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the
>conference first.

ok, as long as people can register for other people (family members)
who aren't attending the conference.

>
>2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed
>in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you.

This is intolerably heterosexual-centric.  Also heterosexual couples
will want to stay together, even if they want 2 rooms out of a 4.

Moreover, there are people coming to EuroPython who actively dislike
one another.  Murphy's Law says that we will maximise assignments
so that they will all end up sharing with each other. :-(

I'd rather a webpage with a list of people who _want a room in a 4_
and _want a room in a 2_, and _which nights I want to be there_ with
space for a short description, that could be left blank.  The rooms
are non-smoking, but it probably makes sense to house smokers with
smokers, because when the have to go out and smoke, they would like
company, and so they won't awaken non-smokers.  People who write
'party animal' and people who write 'quiet, early sleeper' probably do
not want to share a room. 

>3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do
>the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of
>the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have
>registered for the conference before.

No, some of the people will be booking for themselves and their families,
taking a whole 4.

>
>4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people
>can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we
>can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and
>secure way.

This is where I enviison using a wiki, and we will lose some on
security.  But once you have your room filled, you can secure that.
If we have a problem with people erasing people's names so that they
can get in on the room they want with the people they like, we can
deal with it then.  I suspect that this will only be a problem if we
have drastically underestimated the number of people who want rooms.

You DON'T want to do this via private mails. It has to be on a
website, or publically posted someplace.  I've been through this
before, and here is why.

Persons T U V and W decide to come to Europython, and talk about
sharing a room.  Person T books this.  Sometime next week, Person T
revises his booking -- now T U V and Q are in, and W is out.  W is or
is not informed by mail ...

Come the day of the conference, some very unhappy Ws have no place to stay.
The conference organisers have to put them up in their own houses.  Since
one of the reasons that people bump others out of the room is that
the have belatedly discovered that W is a jerk, things are even worse
for the conference organisers than is usually the case.  

Room assignments have to be posted at all times, and the posted one
is the one that must be adhered to in case of a dispute.  

>That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly
>easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome.

It misses the big problem in coordination altogether.  These are not
rooms 'just for the 2 nights in between the conference'.  People are
arriving on different days, and staying for different lengths, based
on when they want to have their Sprints (and some people want to have
a vacation in G?teborg before or after the conference as well).  

We need a way for people who are looking for roommates to advertise
what they want -- and here I think a wiki is best -- and then, when
they get a group formed, then book themselves as a room.

People who haven't formed a group by the last day of booking for
SGS veckobost?der might be subject to arbitrarily getting assigned
to each other, but I hope that little or none of that will be
necessary.

Part of the fun of this is in getting to know other people.  Why not
let that start as a quest to find roommates?

Laura






From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 07:04:00 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  2 07:04:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> (Laura
	Creighton's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:52:09 +0100")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>

Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> writes:

> The level of resentment I experience when I have to make a password to
> do something I want is so intense that I often decide it's not worth it.

For heaven's sake, people are going to be typing their credit card
numbers into this site!  So long as we are careful to make the process
of going from visiting the site for the first time to being a paid up
comfirmed conference attendee painless and *obvious* I don't think
this is a big deal.

So we have a link "Register for the Conference".  If the user is not
registered for the site, they get directed to a page saying "please
enter some details here or log in", then on to the (con) registration
page.  If they are already logged in to the site, they proceed
straight to the latter page.

I was under the impression that the webwerkers had this in hand (many
websites work this way).

> In the case of conferences, it means that I either won't go or just show
> up.  I don't know how many people resent passwords as much as I do;
> many people do not care because they save them all on their laptops, and
> figure if they lose their laptop, their life is over anyway, so <shrug> :-)

I just use the same password a lot...

> We have several things we want people to be able to do:
>
> indicate that they are coming
>
> indicate food allergies & vegetarian status
>
> pay for the conference
>
> sign up for a sprint 
>
> sign up for a tutorial

These ^

> submit a tutorial
>
> submit a talk
>
> submit a referred paper

and these ^ are somewhat unrelated, i.e. I'd have thought people would
be unlikely to do them at the same time.

> pay for the conference
>
> reserve rooms through us at SGS bost?der -- also for their families and
>    other significant people they are bringing

these are back in the first category again.

> Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you
> fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_.  I don't want them to
> have to log in in addition to all of the above.  That is just
> irritating.  

Well, they are going to have to tell us who they are for any of the
above actions to make much sense!

> Logins, in my opinion, are for people who want to participate in the
> creation of the website, not for people who just want to use the
> thing..

I think you may be on the losing side of that website design argument
(globally, I mean, not just in relation to the epc site).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier if you burn down
  the haystack and scan the ashes with a metal detector.
      -- the Silicon Valley Tarot (another one nicked from David Rush)

From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 07:11:48 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  2 07:11:52 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> (
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten's_message_of?= "Tue, 02 Mar 2004
	08:25:38 +0100")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <2mk723fny3.fsf@starship.python.net>

Dario Lopez-K?sten <dario@ita.chalmers.se> writes:

> I ****REALLY*** would like to point out the fact that *EVERYBODY* was
> suppopsed to have come back to us with feedback and observations like
> "should it really look this/that way" for the past 3 weeks. Not now,
> but, like, last week at the latest.

Sorry.  Life gets in the way, etc.  Besides up until /fairly/ recently
the website was so raw that it was hard for someone who hadn't been
working on it and didn't understand plone to make head or tail of (at
least, I couldn't).  Now you've reached the point where the peanut
gallery can see what's going on and carp.

> Now, the focus should of course be to makig things better, so we are
> open to any alternative suggestions that may arise. However, merely
> asking whether something should look like that or not without a
> couterproposal will get very few things done.
>
> The way it was setup up previously was like this:
>
> EPC 2004 at the top, it being a symlink to /conferences/epc2004
>
> however, since it opened up the navigation box in the bottom half, it
> was deemed to be unusually hard for visitors to understand, thus it
> was changed to be the way it is now.

Is there a chance that having OrderedFolders (or whatever it was)
installed will make this more sensible?

> It is not the best solution but the best so far. Any opinions on
> alternative ways of doing this, please give them *NOW* so that we have
> a chance to change it.

I'm afraid I'm too ignorant to see the possibilities :-(

Having some stuff under /epc/current and some other stuff under
/epc/conferences/epc2004 does seem suboptimal.  If we can
reorg. things so that on going to the root of the site the user sees
in the nav box:

  EPC
    Conferences
      2004
    About the EPC
    Interviews
    ...

and there's a big fat link in the content area to
/epc/conferences/epc2004, then that suits *me* fine.  Others may have
other complaints.

> Apologies for the somewhat harsh tone of this mail, it is not directed
> at you personally, but to the list in general - it is bad style to
> ignore bea's pleas for feedback during three weeks and then, when
> everybody suddenly realises that "shit, we need to have the website
> online yesterday" all kinds of opinions, some not so nicely presented,
> come flying by.

Feel free to be rude back :-)

> But, like I said - focus is on getting a great website, so keep those
> questions and suggestions coming.

Indeed, the site seems to be coming together really nicely!  It's
about 90% there, we just need to do the other 90% now <wink>.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable
  from irony.                                           -- Erik Naggum

From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 07:15:45 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  2 07:15:48 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices
In-Reply-To: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> (Joachim Schmitz's message of
	"Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100")
References: <think001_404300f5160c9@webmail.thinkware.se>
	<40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de>
Message-ID: <2mfzcrfnri.fsf@starship.python.net>

Joachim Schmitz <js@aixtraware.de> writes:

> 2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed
> in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you.

I agree with Laura that assigning people beds like this is probably a
bad idea.  We have N beds in 4 bed rooms and M beds in 2 bed rooms,
but who gets which beds is more-or-less up to those involved (up to a
few days before people start arriving when the disorganized ones get
shoved where they still fit).  This sort of thing will probably end up
being organized via wikis, personal emails and bits of paper...

This means less work for you, I think :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Famous remarks are very seldom quoted correctly.
                                                    -- Simeon Strunsky

From mal at egenix.com  Tue Mar  2 07:17:12 2004
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Tue Mar  2 07:17:17 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices
In-Reply-To: <404236CC.1040403@comcast.net>
References: <200401140247.19083.jacob@strakt.com>	<404206E5.2030809@egenix.com>
	<404236CC.1040403@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <40447B48.7070300@egenix.com>

Thank you for the many suggestions. Perhaps the orga team can put
up this information on the web-site ?


Jeremiah Foster wrote:
> There are some excellent and affordable accommodations in G?teborg. I'll 
> start with the really cheap first;
> 
> One very good option is the Spar Hotel[1], there are two of them, the 
> one I am linking to is literally two minutes walk from the conference. 
> Spar means "save" in Swedish so this is a budget conscious hotel. Rooms 
> are about 65 EUR and like most Swedish hotels, it should be very 
> comfortable. In fact, my experience is that Swedish youth hostels are 
> nicer than many cheap hotels in other parts of the world. You may 
> seriously want to consider them because they are very nice. (If you ever 
> go to G?vle, you must stay at the hostel there, it is amazing.) One such 
> hostel, called a minihotel because it really is a hotel, is G?teborgs 
> Minihotel[2]. The price list is from 2001, but even if prices have risen 
> it is incredibly cheap; for a two-bed room it is 20 EUR per bed. Another 
> good option, near the ferry terminals and the Nordic regions largest 
> record store, is Massthuggsterrasens Vandrarhem[3].
> 
> Another possibility is Hotel Vasa[4] in Vasastan, one of the nicest 
> parts of the city. It is a short walk to the center and the conference 
> and there are many, many cafes lining Vasagatan, the main street through 
> Vasastan. It is one of the hipper areas for restaurants and there are 
> clubs near by on the Avenyn. Prices at Hotel Vasa are listed in SEK but 
> are closer to 100 EUR, even less than that depending when you are there.
> 
> This option is a hotel[5] right on the Avenyn, G?teborg's main street. 
> The prices are current and are as low as 47 EUR.
> 
> More info can be gleaned from G?teborg's main web site[6] which is 
> pretty good.
> 
> I am not a conference organizer so I cannot speak to any arrangements 
> that may or have not been made on behalf of attendees, but hopefully 
> there will be something reasonable available, G?teborg is a lovely city 
> especially at that time of year and good attendance at the conference I 
> am sure is welcome.
> 
> Let me know if I can help in any other way.
> 
> - Jeremiah Foster // Pythonian
> 
> [1] http://www.sparhotel.se/index2.asp?iLanguageID=2
> [2] http://www.minihotel.se/
> [3] http://www.mastenvandrarhem.com/
> [4] http://www.hotelvasa.se/
> [5] http://www.avenyturist.com/English/en_index.htm
> [6] http://www.goteborg.se/prod/sk/goteborg.nsf/1/english?OpenDocument
> Map with hotels from city center
> http://www.esa.int/sympo2000/hotels.htm
> 
> M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> 
>> Are there any reasonably priced hotels in G?teborg ?
>>
>> The only one I found was an IBIS hotel; all others have prices
>> which start at 120 EUR per night...
>>
>> Will the organizers arrange special rates in any of these hotels
>> (like we did in Charleroi) ?
>>
>> Thanks,
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Mar 02 2004)
 >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________
EuroPython 2004, G?teborg, Sweden                           96 days left

::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! ::::

From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Mar  2 08:46:57 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue Mar  2 08:44:54 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:

>>Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you
>>fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_.  I don't want them to
>>have to log in in addition to all of the above.  That is just
>>irritating.  
>>    
>>
>
>Well, they are going to have to tell us who they are for any of the
>above actions to make much sense!
>
>  
>
Right, so a login makes a lot of sense. You make a login and fill in 
your personal details *once* for your account, and then when logged in 
sign up to this and that, submit this and that, etc. This way you can 
avoid having to fill in your contact information 5 times for each form 
you fill in.

What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the 
*conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for 
the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email 
giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied 
random password and enter their conference preferences and the like.

Regards,

Martijn


From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 09:18:25 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 09:18:46 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
Message-ID: <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>

Martijn Faassen wrote:

> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the 
> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for 
> the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email 
> giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied 
> random password and enter their conference preferences and the like.

this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we 
are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the 
conference.

I perceived some hints that this may not be the case... or am i wrong?

Because if not, then the registration is for the conference and the you 
get access to all the nifty other features, like paper submittal, room 
reservation, etc.

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 09:37:33 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 09:37:47 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings 
In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=
	<dario@ita.chalmers.se> of "Tue,
	02 Mar 2004 15:18:25 +0100." <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> 
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> 
Message-ID: <200403021437.i22EbX7X021858@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:18:25 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes:
>Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the 
>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for
> 
>> the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email
> 
>> giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied 
>> random password and enter their conference preferences and the like.
>
>this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we 
>are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the 
>conference.

This looks good to me.  I like it that you can register for the conference
and not have to go through the hasslde of getting a login, or waiting
for it to be validated.  This is all I wanted to avoid.

>
>I perceived some hints that this may not be the case... or am i wrong?
>
>Because if not, then the registration is for the conference and the you 
>get access to all the nifty other features, like paper submittal, room 
>reservation, etc.
>
>/dario

I know somebody who wants to submit a paper.  If it is accepted he is
flying here from the USA.  If it isn't, he isn't.  I don't think that
he would mind doing somehting like 'indicating an interest to attend'
but no cash will change hands until he hears from the Refereed Paper
Authorities.

Laura

From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 09:45:52 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  2 09:45:54 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> (
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten's_message_of?= "Tue, 02 Mar 2004
	15:18:25 +0100")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>

Dario Lopez-K?sten <dario@ita.chalmers.se> writes:

> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the
>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up
>> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send
>> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with
>> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and
>> the like.
>
> this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we
> are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the
> conference.

Um... why?  So long as it's possible to join the site independently of
registering for the con as well, is this a problem?  And, after all,
you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Remember - if all you have is an axe, every problem looks 
  like hours of fun.                                        -- Frossie
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 10:07:41 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:08:04 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>

Michael Hudson wrote:

 > Dario Lopez-K?sten <dario@ita.chalmers.se> writes:
 >
 >> Martijn Faassen wrote:
 >>
 >>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the
 >>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up
 >>> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send
 >>> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with
 >>> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and
 >>> the like.
 >>
 >>
 >> this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we
 >> are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the
 >> conference.
 >
 >
 > Um... why?  So long as it's possible to join the site independently of
 > registering for the con as well, is this a problem?  And, after all,
 > you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this.


uh... right. How about this:

1) Sign up for the site
1.b) We prod you about personal info (optional as long as you haven't 
signed up for the conference or any other activity that needs personal 
info) and incidentally we ask if you wish to sing up for the 2004 
conference (though this is optional)
2) Once you are signed up to the site you can with the same sign up 
specify if you want to sign up for the conference, submit a paper etc.

Each thing uses your personal information that you specified at some 
point - no need to re-enter any info.

Alternatively, every time people sign up to the conference or any other 
activity on the site, an account is created for them (unless they have 
one previously).

The main point we are trying to make is that we need personal info on 
people. NAd if we don't want to force them to enter it more than once 
(for everybody else than plain conference attendants) then we need to be 
able to retrieve that info somehow.

Now, I have a small doubt - how much of this, if anything is actually in 
place?

/dario - will shut up now.

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.


From jacob at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 10:16:42 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:16:46 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes
Message-ID: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com>

Oh dear, what a mess. I guess it is all my fault, because I should have 
understood more about web thingies. However, I didn't, and now we need to 
clear up the whole mess in a hurry, because we are running very late.

I will list the things I want to accomplish. I understand that some of them 
may be impossible to do or require an extraordinary amount of work. If so, I 
need to be told about it, and I need an alternate route suggested. We have a 
day or two before the website _must_ go live.

1. I want a website that is clean and simple to navigate for the visitor. This 
means that the boxes for logging in and publishing information must be gone. 
The only thing acceptable for the administration of the site is a single, 
discreet button somewhere. The site should be a EuroPython website, not a 
Plone website.

2. I want a sidebar that looks like the old site. I want to change some of the 
headings and links, but otherwise I want it to be exactly the same. It is a 
very good navigation tool, providing just the right help. When we have these, 
we can get rid of the tabs at the top (No, tabs at the top is not a working 
replacement -- I really want the grouping of the subjects that you get on the 
sidebar in the old website).

3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely 
identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to 
supply a password. The registration process should not require them to select 
"register" as one operation and then require a step "submit paper". The 
workflow should be that they select "submit paper" -- then, if registration 
is necessary, the workflow process gives them a registration form, followed 
by the form for submitting the paper.

4. Registering for things should be a series of links in the left sidebar.

Now, time is very short, and that means that there is no room for discussion 
of wether my list of points is the best thing or not. What I want to know is 
if the things I am asking for are possible in the current timeframe.

Jacob


From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 10:25:14 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:25:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings 
In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=
	<dario@ita.chalmers.se> of "Tue,
	02 Mar 2004 16:07:41 +0100." <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> 
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> 
Message-ID: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:07:41 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes:
>Michael Hudson wrote:
>
> > Dario Lopez-K?sten <dario@ita.chalmers.se> writes:
> >
> >> Martijn Faassen wrote:
> >>
> >>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the
> >>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up
> >>> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send
> >>> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with
> >>> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and
> >>> the like.
> >>
> >>
> >> this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we
> >> are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the
> >> conference.
> >
> >
> > Um... why?  So long as it's possible to join the site independently of
> > registering for the con as well, is this a problem?  And, after all,
> > you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this.
>
>
>uh... right. How about this:
>
>1) Sign up for the site
>1.b) We prod you about personal info (optional as long as you haven't 
>signed up for the conference or any other activity that needs personal 
>info) and incidentally we ask if you wish to sing up for the 2004 
>conference (though this is optional)
>2) Once you are signed up to the site you can with the same sign up 
>specify if you want to sign up for the conference, submit a paper etc.
>
>Each thing uses your personal information that you specified at some 
>point - no need to re-enter any info.
>
>Alternatively, every time people sign up to the conference or any other 
>activity on the site, an account is created for them (unless they have 
>one previously).

--- this is the alternative I like.  But I do not understand why they
    need an account.  Once we have their name, we can try to collect
    information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we
    can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things.


What I mean is

'This is my name.  This is my email.  Here is my payment.  <SEND> click.'

This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for
the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take.

*Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help
 the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* 

is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in
people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut
allergies/no red meat/ we have  -- but as the bottom line, name,
email, and money is all we absolutely have to have.

Laura


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  2 10:35:40 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:35:42 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> (Laura
	Creighton's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:25:14 +0100")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>

Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> writes:

> --- this is the alternative I like.  But I do not understand why they
>     need an account.  Once we have their name, we can try to collect
>     information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we
>     can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things.

How is this different from them having an account?

I seem to see people saying "I don't want X, Y and Z, I want Y, Z and
X" a lot here...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  GET   *BONK*
  BACK  *BONK*
  IN    *BONK*
  THERE *BONK*             -- Naich using the troll hammer in cam.misc

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 10:42:39 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:42:57 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> --- this is the alternative I like.  But I do not understand why they
>     need an account.  Once we have their name, we can try to collect
>     information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we
>     can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things.
> 
> 
> What I mean is
> 
> 'This is my name.  This is my email.  Here is my payment.  <SEND> click.'
> 
> This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for
> the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take.
> 
> *Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help
>  the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* 
> 
> is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in
> people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut
> allergies/no red meat/ we have  -- but as the bottom line, name,
> email, and money is all we absolutely have to have.

right, so as long as we make it non-intrusive to the *average* user we 
can make a set of forms that do the job, right?

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 10:47:40 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 10:47:58 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes
In-Reply-To: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <4044AC9C.2070104@ita.chalmers.se>

*sigh* what a mess.

How about we scrpa the new ideas we have altogether ans just reuse the 
old site?

/dario - giving up...


From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 11:12:01 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 11:12:17 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings 
In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Hudson <mwh@python.net> of "Tue,
	02 Mar 2004 15:35:40 GMT." <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> 
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> 
Message-ID: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:35:40 GMT, Michael Hudson writes:
>Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> writes:
>
>> --- this is the alternative I like.  But I do not understand why they
>>     need an account.  Once we have their name, we can try to collect
>>     information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we
>>     can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things
>.
>
>How is this different from them having an account?
>
>I seem to see people saying "I don't want X, Y and Z, I want Y, Z and
>X" a lot here...
>
>Cheers,
>mwh

Aha, perhaps it is a language problem.

Accounts for me are things with passwords.  You have to supply a
password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then
typing it to use the system.  I have 0% faith in password security,
so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity).

If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and
which had the password, <no password>, and where they were never prompted
for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were
hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had
accounts, and just interacted with the website.

People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one
they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will
often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder.
Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or
may not.  So what.

Right now, what I am seeing is the notion that since we moved to
Plone, which was supposed to make everythiong easier, we have 
discovered a hidden cost.  It is now tons easier for the people
who know Plone, and some of the people who know Zope, and even
people who knew neither, to add content to the website.

Contact me if you wish to do this and don't know how.

This is its virtue.

What isn't good, what isn't even close to acceptable, is the notion
that you have to be a plone-login-holder to register for the
conference.  I want people who have 15 minutes to register for
EuroPython, just before they leave for a concert, to be able to
do type, type, type, click, in ... done'.

So is what you call an account different from what I do? 


From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 11:14:40 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar  2 11:14:56 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings 
In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=
	<dario@ita.chalmers.se> of "Tue,
	02 Mar 2004 16:42:39 +0100." <4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se> 
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se> 
Message-ID: <200403021614.i22GEfP3022202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:42:39 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes:
>Laura Creighton wrote:
>> --- this is the alternative I like.  But I do not understand why they
>>     need an account.  Once we have their name, we can try to collect
>>     information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we
>>     can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things
>.
>> 
>> 
>> What I mean is
>> 
>> 'This is my name.  This is my email.  Here is my payment.  <SEND> click
>.'
>> 
>> This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for
>> the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take
>.
>> 
>> *Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help
>>  the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* 
>> 
>> is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in
>> people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut
>> allergies/no red meat/ we have  -- but as the bottom line, name,
>> email, and money is all we absolutely have to have.
>
>right, so as long as we make it non-intrusive to the *average* user we 
>can make a set of forms that do the job, right?
>
>/dario

I would say 'typical' rather than average, but yes, this is what I think
is reasonable.

Laura



From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 11:28:25 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 11:28:42 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <4044B629.1010008@ita.chalmers.se>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> What isn't good, what isn't even close to acceptable, is the notion
> that you have to be a plone-login-holder to register for the
> conference.  I want people who have 15 minutes to register for
> EuroPython, just before they leave for a concert, to be able to
> do type, type, type, click, in ... done'.

you can hardly blame plone for the fact that this is a decision we, 
IIRC, cleared with all of you a copule of weeks ago on a meeting and got 
"OK" for.

This has of course nohing to do with plone.

/dario


-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar  2 13:18:20 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 13:18:39 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Updated the website with a new structure...
Message-ID: <4044CFEC.9040609@ita.chalmers.se>

small changes, but i thik it is a step towards what people have 
expressed  that they need.

It is not complete, ie. all the info on thet society would have to be 
moved to a separate folder, but it is a start.

will work on it tomorrow, dont have more time today.

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar  2 14:38:12 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar  2 14:38:19 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBSZTogRXVyb3B5dGhvbiBUdXRvcmlhbHMgcXVlc3Rpb25haXJl?=
Message-ID: <think001_4044e2723a6f3@webmail.thinkware.se>

Francesco Ciriaci wrote:
> Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to? thanks.

Yes. See http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Mar  2 15:00:31 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue Mar  2 14:58:22 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow
Message-ID: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com>

Hi there,

Since we now have a long thread on this and a significant amount of 
confusion, let me sketch out some use cases:

Use cases:

Actors:

  * system: the website

  * person:  a person in the wild unknown to us who wants to register  
                   for EuroPython.

  * talk submitter: someone who wants to submit a talk for EP

  * plone user: a person registered with Plone

Use case 1: Person registers for EuroPython

1 person goes to EuroPython website.

2 person clicks easy to find 'Register now!' link/button on homepage

3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged 
in, also ask for username.

4 system sends off person to site with payment details.

5 If person is not logged in, system makes person into plone user, 
including random password.

6 person is registered with EP for conference. person receives a mail
with confirmation. If person is not logged in, also include plone user 
account information with random password.

Extensions:

3a username is already known with system but user isn't

3a1 system shows form again, and asks for different username

3b username is already known to the system as person already
has plone account

3b1 Person is presented with option to log in first.

3b2 Person becomes Plone User.

3b3 To step 2.

Use case 2: Plone user provides dietary preferences

1. Home page/email presents clear link to 'dietary preferences' page. 
User clicks on it.

2. System shows in dietary preferences in form of this particular user.

3. User fills in form.

Extensions:

2a User is not logged in
 
  2a1 System shows login form to user

  2a2. User logs in. Back to step 2.

2b. User tries to change preferences at last minute!

  2b1 System prevents user from access these screens after certain
         cutoff date. (alternative: at cutoff date information is retrieved
         from the system, all later changes are lost).

Use case 3: Plone user submits talk

1. Home page provides link to 'submit talk' page. User clicks on it.

2. System provides talk submission form.

3. Plone user submits talk.

Extensions:

2a. User is not logged in

  2a1. System shows login form to user

  2a2. User logs in. Back to step 2.

Regards,

Martijn


From faassen at infrae.com  Tue Mar  2 15:03:03 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Tue Mar  2 15:00:56 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes
In-Reply-To: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <4044E877.2050602@infrae.com>

Jacob Hall?n wrote:

>3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely 
>identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to 
>supply a password. The registration process should not require them to select 
>"register" as one operation and then require a step "submit paper". The 
>workflow should be that they select "submit paper" -- then, if registration 
>is necessary, the workflow process gives them a registration form, followed 
>by the form for submitting the paper.
>
>  
>
I think this requirement can be weakened:

 * people who want to register for the conference proper shouldn't have 
to log in

 * people who want to do anything else (submit talk, dietary 
preferences, etc, etc) *are* required to create a login.

If this significantly eases the production of the website I think this 
is a good enough compromise.

Regards,

Martijn


From steve at z3u.com  Tue Mar  2 15:28:41 2004
From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Tue Mar  2 15:29:04 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow
In-Reply-To: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com>
References: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com>
Message-ID: <20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt>


> 3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged 
> in, also ask for username.

Thanks for the digestion / summary.


Can we use email addresses as usernames?

- We will be collecting email addresses anyway, so why ask for a
  username too?

- I really dislike websites that ask me to choose a username, but don't
  tell me what usernames are already taken.

- I usually remember passwords, but often forget usernames when I can't
  use my usual username.

--
Steve Alexander


From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar  2 18:18:45 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar  2 18:18:51 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWJpdGUgd29lcw==?=
Message-ID: <think001_4044e4ef26e8c@webmail.thinkware.se>

Jacob wrote:
> We have a day or two before the website _must_ go live. 

That sounds like a very short time to fix this for people
who happen to have other jobs they need to handle besides
this... Particularly since there seems to be some work
left on the pure content side as well. E.g.
http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/about/contact
directs people to the Charleroi team...

The site seems inconsistent on when early bird registration
will start. 15th of March according to
http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/current/view and
http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/Attending/
and 1st of March according to
http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/events/Event.2004-02-23.4350/view

I assume registration start at 15th of March isn't bad.

I doubt that people will rush to register for the
conference before there is any real content presented for
the conference. First of all, I think we need people to 
submit talks, and present that to the web site visitors.

I felt this was a big problem last year, when EPC was new to
me and I didn't know what to expect from it. The web site was
advertised, and I looked week after week for some kind of
content, so that I could find out what to expect if I went
there. It took (I felt) a long time before stuff started to
appear. It was only through the mailing list and by guessing
that it would be similar to the previous year that I managed
to get an impression of what the conference would be like.

It's my opinion that it's bad to advertise something before
you have something substantial to offer. A lot of people will
just turn away and ignore you when you try to approach them
again. So, don't bang on the big drum to get people to register
until we are clear on the keynote speakers, and have at least
a substancial part of the speakers list.

> 3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely 
> identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to 
> supply a password. 

Registration with an email address certainly makes sense
to me. Is it reasonably easy to set plone up so that 
people need to use a valid email address as user name?

If I've registered information on the web site, I want to
be able to see what info I've entered, and maybe change
things. It should certainly not be possible for me to see
someone elses personal info just by typing in their email
address. This makes me feel that a password is required.
But it's fine with me if the system makes a password and
mails it to me when I've registered. I'd also like to be
able to get a password reminder via email.

It seems trivial to write code to generate a password and
send that in an email similar to the kind of join mailing 
list emails that Mailman sends. I don't know how easy it
is to integrate this with the Plone system though.

Password generation could be done something like this:
import random
chars = "ABCDEFGHJKLMNPRSTUVWXYZabcdefghjkmnopqrstuvwxyz23456789"
"".join([random.choice(chars) for x in range(8)])

(My experience is that including 1, l, I, O and 0 in
generated passwords causes support to users who misread
the characters and complain that the password doesn't
work. I guess some special characters could be ok as 
well, but maybe 55**8 different passwords is enough?)

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar  2 18:40:48 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar  2 18:41:07 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWIgc2l0ZSB3b25kZXJpbmdzIA==?=
Message-ID: <think001_404518a496629@webmail.thinkware.se>

Laura wrote:
> People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one
> they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will
> often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder.
> Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or
> may not.  So what.

But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they
registered with, saying something like:

'''
Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference.

Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython
2004 Conference in ... with the following information:
[snip]

Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this
is not correct.

Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with 
password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information,
such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want 
to book a room at our bla bla bla.

Make sure that you save this information for further reference.
'''

Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit?

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar  2 18:41:12 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar  2 18:41:18 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWIgc2l0ZSB3b25kZXJpbmdzIA==?=
Message-ID: <think001_404518a496629@webmail.thinkware.se>

Laura wrote:
> People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one
> they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will
> often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder.
> Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or
> may not.  So what.

But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they
registered with, saying something like:

'''
Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference.

Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython
2004 Conference in ... with the following information:
[snip]

Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this
is not correct.

Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with 
password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information,
such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want 
to book a room at our bla bla bla.

Make sure that you save this information for further reference.
'''

Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit?

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From jacob at strakt.com  Tue Mar  2 19:17:22 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Tue Mar  2 19:17:25 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <think001_404518a496629@webmail.thinkware.se>
References: <think001_404518a496629@webmail.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com>

On onsdag 3 mars 2004 00.41, Magnus Lycka wrote:
> Laura wrote:
> > People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one
> > they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will
> > often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder.
> > Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or
> > may not.  So what.
>
> But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they
> registered with, saying something like:
>
> '''
> Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference.
>
> Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython
> 2004 Conference in ... with the following information:
> [snip]
>
> Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this
> is not correct.
>
> Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with
> password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information,
> such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want
> to book a room at our bla bla bla.
>
> Make sure that you save this information for further reference.
> '''
>
> Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit?

It would be a lot better, usability wise.

Jacob


From sasha at systemvaruhuset.com  Tue Mar  2 16:55:59 2004
From: sasha at systemvaruhuset.com (Sasha Vincic)
Date: Tue Mar  2 21:36:14 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow
In-Reply-To: <20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt>
References: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com>
	<20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt>
Message-ID: <1078264558.3588.17.camel@silent>

On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 21:28, Steve Alexander wrote:
> > 3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged 
> > in, also ask for username.
> 
> Thanks for the digestion / summary.
> 
> 
> Can we use email addresses as usernames?
> 
> - We will be collecting email addresses anyway, so why ask for a
>   username too?
Zope & CMF don't permit usernames = emails due a standard where you
can't have member folders = email. I have made a patch for a customer of
mine who doesn't use member folders to allow emails as usernames but
everything else is CMF/Plonish.

So yes you can do it with a patch.



From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Mar  3 04:46:51 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Mar  3 04:46:57 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> Accounts for me are things with passwords.  You have to supply a
> password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then
> typing it to use the system.  I have 0% faith in password security,
> so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity).

Urm, I may be missing something here, but I suspect you may in a mintority there...

> If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and
> which had the password, <no password>, and where they were never prompted
> for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were
> hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had
> accounts, and just interacted with the website.

...I don't think I'd even like to specify what talks I'd be attending without 
typing in a password over SSL ;-)

The website _is_ SSL'ed, right?!

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Mar  3 05:35:33 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed Mar  3 05:35:50 2004
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSB3ZWJzaXRlIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiB3b3JrZmxvdw==?=
Message-ID: <think001_4045b2b2c3768@webmail.thinkware.se>

> Zope & CMF don't permit usernames = emails due a standard where you
> can't have member folders = email. I have made a patch for a customer of
> mine who doesn't use member folders to allow emails as usernames but
> everything else is CMF/Plonish.

I assume it would be possible to perform some
kind of trick like
username = email.lower().replace('@','AT').replace('.','DOT')

(as far as I understand, email addresses are supposed to be
case insensitive) and 

email = username.replace('AT','@').replace('DOT','.')

to allow the use of both email logins and member folders.

Or are there other restrictions, such as length, that cause
trouble?

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr  Wed Mar  3 06:22:11 2004
From: Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat)
Date: Wed Mar  3 06:22:20 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes
In-Reply-To: <think001_4044e4ef26e8c@webmail.thinkware.se>
References: <think001_4044e4ef26e8c@webmail.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <20040303112211.GA28977@logilab.fr>

On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:18:45AM +0100, Magnus Lycka wrote:

> I doubt that people will rush to register for the
> conference before there is any real content presented for
> the conference. First of all, I think we need people to 
> submit talks, and present that to the web site visitors.
> 
> I felt this was a big problem last year, when EPC was new to
> me and I didn't know what to expect from it. The web site was
> advertised, and I looked week after week for some kind of
> content, so that I could find out what to expect if I went
> there. It took (I felt) a long time before stuff started to
> appear. It was only through the mailing list and by guessing
> that it would be similar to the previous year that I managed
> to get an impression of what the conference would be like.

I have one talk accepted already and the corresponding PDF waiting in
my mailbox. I can't wait to create an account and write down the password
to never-forget-it-this-time-it-will-be-different as I look forward to
upload that talk and to people having a chance to stare at more content.

-- 
Nicolas Chauvat

logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances  

From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar  3 06:51:00 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed Mar  3 06:51:04 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of
	"Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:46:51 +0000")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>

Chris Withers <lists@simplistix.co.uk> writes:

> Laura Creighton wrote:
>
>> Accounts for me are things with passwords.  You have to supply a
>> password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then
>> typing it to use the system.  I have 0% faith in password security,
>> so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity).
>
> Urm, I may be missing something here, but I suspect you may in a mintority there...
>
>> If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and
>> which had the password, <no password>, and where they were never prompted
>> for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were
>> hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had
>> accounts, and just interacted with the website.
>
> ...I don't think I'd even like to specify what talks I'd be attending
> without typing in a password over SSL ;-)
>
> The website _is_ SSL'ed, right?!

For payment it will be.  Probably not for anything else.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most
  fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and
  double it                        -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index

From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar  3 17:44:55 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar  3 17:34:46 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
Message-ID: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
where I can find out about the folliowing:

1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.

It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
which can point me directly to the right direction.

Thanks in advance,
Tom.


From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar  3 17:29:14 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar  3 17:37:12 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more
References: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi Dario,

I'm one of the persons who has access, so I can install products:

Tell me:

1) where I can find the ordered folder product you want to have
installed
2) which char I've to change in the CMFCalendar code
3)where I  can find the restructured text product.

Regards,
Tom.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dario Lopez-K?sten" <dario@ita.chalmers.se>
To: <europython@python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:28 AM
Subject: [Tom] [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more


hello,

I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the
following two things fixed.

1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with
plone

2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at
monday (a 1 char  change in the product code)

3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with
reStrecturedText.

Ok, so that was three things :-)

Cheese,

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

_______________________________________________
EuroPython mailing list
EuroPython@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


From magnus at thinkware.se  Wed Mar  3 17:10:44 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Wed Mar  3 17:45:11 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web material
Message-ID: <think001_40464dcfccdd8@webmail.thinkware.se>

I've written some more info about G?teborg. This time about 
the local industry. I thought it might be of interest to
the visitors to know that the cameras used by the astronauts
to take pictures on the moon were built in G?teborg etc.

http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/companies

Is this relevant? Other comments? I guess it's not number
one priority at this very moment, but it's something that
could help build curiosity for a visit.

I've previously written a bit on travel info, and not no
feedback at all :( but I think almost all of the substance in
http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/travelinfo
have already appeared elsewhere in the site.

I plan to write some more about places to visit in G?teborg
a bit later, but that will be at least a week from now.

Since I haven't actually lived in G?teborg since 1997 (but
I plan to return soon :) I would need some guidence on some
issues such as nice pubs and clubs etc. Is Nef 
http://www.nefertiti.se/ as good as it used to be? What
else? http://www.jazzhuset.se/ ? Folkmusikkaf?et is nice for
people who like folk dancing, but closed in the summer 
I think. Python programmers don't go to shallow night clubs
like Tr?dg?r'n or Valand, do they? ;)

Is Sommarklubben (or whatever it's called these days) open
during the conference?

At least for eating, the work is already done! :)
http://www.strakt.com/guide.html

-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From js at aixtraware.de  Wed Mar  3 17:55:48 2004
From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz)
Date: Wed Mar  3 17:55:51 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se>
	<00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <40466274.1090205@aixtraware.de>

Hi Tom,

ordered folder is already installed.

Tom Deprez said the following on 03/03/04 23:29:
> Hi Dario,
> 
> I'm one of the persons who has access, so I can install products:
> 
> Tell me:
> 
> 1) where I can find the ordered folder product you want to have
> installed
> 2) which char I've to change in the CMFCalendar code
> 3)where I  can find the restructured text product.
> 
> Regards,
> Tom.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Dario Lopez-K?sten" <dario@ita.chalmers.se>
> To: <europython@python.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:28 AM
> Subject: [Tom] [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more
> 
> 
> hello,
> 
> I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the
> following two things fixed.
> 
> 1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with
> plone
> 
> 2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at
> monday (a 1 char  change in the product code)
> 
> 3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with
> reStrecturedText.
> 
> Ok, so that was three things :-)
> 
> Cheese,
> 
> /dario
> 


-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en                                Joachim Schmitz
......................................................................
AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851
H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163

From lac at strakt.com  Wed Mar  3 23:34:36 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:22:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web material 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:10:44 +0100."
	<think001_40464dcfccdd8@webmail.thinkware.se> 
References: <think001_40464dcfccdd8@webmail.thinkware.se> 
Message-ID: <200403040434.i244Yafh026844@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>


Alas, the resturant guide at www.strakt.com needs revising.  Plus its
the guide to the top resturants in town, and we need one for the
most inexpensive places as well....

Nefertiti http://www.nefertiti.se/ is still great ...

Andrew Dalke has been spending evenints here going Salsa dancing.
I'll get him to post content ...


Laura

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Thu Mar  4 00:12:41 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:22:42 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <4046BAC9.3070702@ita.chalmers.se>

Tom Deprez wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
> 
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.

do this in the ZMI.

> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.

Do this in the ZMI - create a zpt document - take for instance a copy of 
  one of the folder listins.

> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

If you are loking into making an index_html for the interviews folder, I 
am allready working on it. Please tell me what kind of information you 
need displayed apart from what you allready see in the default folder 
listing.

Sincerely,


/dario
for the web-team


-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr  Thu Mar  4 02:24:54 2004
From: Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:24:27 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <20040304072454.GA28062@logilab.fr>


> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.

use the metadata tab that appears on top of the document.

> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.

add that as you would add any object thru the ZMI, but make sure you call the
right macros to have headers, footers, etc. Use portal_skins/* as an example.

-- 
Nicolas Chauvat

logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances  

From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Thu Mar  4 03:44:36 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:25:51 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>
	<2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> For payment it will be.  Probably not for anything else.

Why not?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From mario at ruggier.org  Thu Mar  4 04:30:31 2004
From: mario at ruggier.org (Mario Ruggier)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:29:56 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Tutorials questionaire
In-Reply-To: <200402231940.i1NJe0Qd019719@enzo.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <94C90E26-6DBE-11D8-ACCD-000393756786@ruggier.org>

> Dear Europython 2003 attendee,
>
> The organising committee for Europython is currently busy planning
> this years conference, which will run in G?teborg, Sweden, 7-9 June
> 2004.
>
> To help us serve the community in the best way possible, we need your
> input on what you think we should do in the way of tutorials.
>
> Please send this questionare filled in to "europython@python.org".
>
> 1. Are you likely to attend Europython?
>
> Yes/No/Only if there are tutorials I'd like to go to.

No, not likely. But not out of the question either.

> 2. What topics would you be interested in? How much would you be ready
> to pay for such a tutorial?

Discussion/comparison of developing python applications
within a j2ee-like framework, should one be defined or agreed upon.
I feel this is Python's biggest lack, and the no.1 reason for 
difficulty in
making a case for using python for large applications and systems.

The cost should be part of the conference, but I would be willing to
pay a reasonable rate should it be asked.

> 3. When would it be most suitable for you to participate in a tutorial?
> Please rank the alternatives.
> a. Friday 4 June
> b. Saturday 5 June
> c. Sunday 6 June
> d. During the conference
> e. When it doesn't conflict with my Sprint
> f. Thursday 10 June

d. During the Conference
f. Thur 10 June (maybe)

> 4. Would you be willing to give a tutorial?  On what subject(s)?

No.

> 5. Is there any other input you would like to give us?

Please make it as easy as possible to arrange for us to come -- 
information
for inexpensive transport and accommodation!

> More information about Europython 2004 will be available shortly at
> http://www.europython.org.
>
> For the Europython team
>
> Jacob Hall?n
> Head organiser

Best regards,

	Mario Ruggier

email      mario@ruggier.org
home      +33 4 50 41 96 14
mobile    +41 79 214 0791


From bea at webwitches.com  Thu Mar  4 04:41:12 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:30:00 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <1078393272.13537.108.camel@ogg>

On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
> 
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.
> 
> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

Hi Tom et al.

The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual
suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on
the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation
part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out
a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh
and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go
through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of
content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day.

We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were
agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have
been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so
case closed :)

So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content
of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as
always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old
tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have
enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this
evening?

see you then

bea





-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  4 06:12:03 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:31:12 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of
	"Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:44:36 +0000")
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>
	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>
	<2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net>

Chris Withers <lists@simplistix.co.uk> writes:

> Michael Hudson wrote:
>
>> For payment it will be.  Probably not for anything else.
>
> Why not?

What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good
argument :-)

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  If you're talking "useful", I'm not your bot.
                                            -- Tim Peters, 08 Nov 2001

From mwh at python.net  Thu Mar  4 06:18:57 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:31:18 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> (Tom Deprez's
	message of "Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:44:55 +0100")
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <2m1xo8c126.fsf@starship.python.net>

"Tom Deprez" <tom@aragne.com> writes:

> Hi,

Is this all about the interviews page?  I've made a start on playing
with that (as you can probably see).

> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
>
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.

Like, e.g. "interview date"? :-)

This seems to be a more a zope than plone question, and I don't know
how to do it.

> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.

This is easy, ish.  And I've already done it for /epc/interviews/.
What I did was (1) download the plone 1.0.5 source (2) in the ZMI
upload CMFPlone/skins/plone_forms/folder_listing.pt to
/epc/interviews/index_html (3) hack at this a bit.

> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

I'm planning on staying up as long as it takes tonight to get the site
ready for public consumption, and suspect #plone on freenode is going
to be on the receiving end of a lot of questions...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  : Giant screaming pieces of excrement, they are.
  I have a feeling that some of the people in here have a 
  MUCH more exciting time relieving themselves than I do.
                                       -- Mike Sphar & Dave Brown, asr

From eldada at mdstud.chalmers.se  Thu Mar  4 06:23:23 2004
From: eldada at mdstud.chalmers.se (Ali El Dada)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:31:21 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web material
References: <think001_40464dcfccdd8@webmail.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <404711AB.6070704@mdstud.chalmers.se>

I am (a Python programmer of course :) ) studying in Chalmers,  so I 
hope I can help in anything, although I have been living in G?teborg for 
only a couple of months. From this experience I can say that some places 
to visit in the city include the Liseberg park and the islands in 
G?teborg's archipelago... they should be lovely in the summer (i live on 
one of them!)

probably the best place to search is http://www.goteborg.com/ , and of 
course the tourist information office when you arrive.. this is located 
at the Kungsportsplatsen stop.. And speaking about tram/bus stops, you 
will probably need to check out http://www.vasttrafik.se , the site of 
the company responsible for transportation within the city (tram, bus, 
ferry boats...).

and i think good clubs include excet and tr?dg?rn, but as Magnus 
indicated, that depends on taste :)

Regards,
Ali El Dada


Magnus Lycka wrote:

>I've written some more info about G?teborg. This time about 
>the local industry. I thought it might be of interest to
>the visitors to know that the cameras used by the astronauts
>to take pictures on the moon were built in G?teborg etc.
>
>http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/companies
>
>Is this relevant? Other comments? I guess it's not number
>one priority at this very moment, but it's something that
>could help build curiosity for a visit.
>
>I've previously written a bit on travel info, and not no
>feedback at all :( but I think almost all of the substance in
>http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/travelinfo
>have already appeared elsewhere in the site.
>
>I plan to write some more about places to visit in G?teborg
>a bit later, but that will be at least a week from now.
>
>Since I haven't actually lived in G?teborg since 1997 (but
>I plan to return soon :) I would need some guidence on some
>issues such as nice pubs and clubs etc. Is Nef 
>http://www.nefertiti.se/ as good as it used to be? What
>else? http://www.jazzhuset.se/ ? Folkmusikkaf?et is nice for
>people who like folk dancing, but closed in the summer 
>I think. Python programmers don't go to shallow night clubs
>like Tr?dg?r'n or Valand, do they? ;)
>
>Is Sommarklubben (or whatever it's called these days) open
>during the conference?
>
>At least for eating, the work is already done! :)
>http://www.strakt.com/guide.html
>
>  
>


From bea at webwitches.com  Thu Mar  4 06:35:42 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:31:22 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <1078400140.14126.114.camel@ogg>

This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning:

On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
> 
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.
> 
> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

Hi Tom et al.

The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual
suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on
the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation
part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out
a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh
and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go
through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of
content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day.

We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were
agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have
been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so
case closed :)

So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content
of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as
always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old
tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have
enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this
evening?

see you then

bea





-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From bea at webwitches.com  Thu Mar  4 09:30:31 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:35:24 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <1078410630.14126.118.camel@ogg>

This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning, neither when I sent it at lunch:

On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
> 
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.
> 
> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

Hi Tom et al.

The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual
suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on
the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation
part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out
a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh
and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go
through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of
content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day.

We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were
agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have
been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so
case closed :)

So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content
of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as
always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old
tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have
enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this
evening?

see you then

bea





-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From bea at webwitches.com  Thu Mar  4 09:38:53 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Thu Mar  4 09:36:33 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info: fourth try
In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <1078411133.13534.121.camel@ogg>

This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning, neither when I sent it at lunch, neither a few minutes ago...

On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document
> where I can find out about the folliowing:
> 
> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie
> navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page
> template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is
> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout.
> 
> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and
> this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts
> which can point me directly to the right direction.

Hi Tom et al.

The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual
suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on
the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation
part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out
a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh
and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go
through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of
content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day.

We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were
agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have
been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so
case closed :)

So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content
of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as
always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old
tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have
enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this
evening?

see you then

bea





-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From bea at webwitches.com  Thu Mar  4 11:05:57 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Thu Mar  4 11:03:37 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] multiplied message
Message-ID: <1078416357.14126.130.camel@ogg>

Sorry for the multiplication. Whatever got stopped obviously went
through in the end.

-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From faassen at infrae.com  Thu Mar  4 12:33:04 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Thu Mar  4 13:11:08 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <think001_404518a496629@webmail.thinkware.se>
	<200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <40476850.4@infrae.com>

Jacob Hall?n wrote:

>>Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit?
>>    
>>
>
>It would be a lot better, usability wise.
>
>  
>
Note that this scenario is also in my use cases. :)

Use cases (Alistair Cockburn style) do force one to think through these 
issues.

Regards,

Martijn



From tom at aragne.com  Thu Mar  4 14:52:20 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Thu Mar  4 14:50:41 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<4046BAC9.3070702@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <00ab01c40223$70f609e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote:
> Tom Deprez wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a
>> document where I can find out about the folliowing:
>>
>> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
>
> do this in the ZMI.

Ah, okay, I thought this would be possible in the Plone interface as
well, through dublic core properties. But looks like we need to do it
the ZMI way. Fine by me.

>
>> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework
>> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some
>> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to
>> know is what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an
>> iteration over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the
>> plone layout.
>
> Do this in the ZMI - create a zpt document - take for instance a copy
>   of one of the folder listins.
>
>> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation
>> and this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone
>> addicts which can point me directly to the right direction.
>
> If you are loking into making an index_html for the interviews
> folder, I am allready working on it. Please tell me what kind of
> information you need displayed apart from what you allready see in
> the default folder listing.

Great! Well, I want to have the interviews chronological as they were
entered before. So I need to add a property somewhere where we place the
date of publishing. (now they all are published on the day I added them
to the Plone site, ie March 2004)

Thanks,
Tom.

> Sincerely,
>
>
> /dario
> for the web-team


From tom at aragne.com  Thu Mar  4 14:52:25 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Thu Mar  4 14:50:44 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<20040304072454.GA28062@logilab.fr>
Message-ID: <00ac01c40223$7287f480$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Nicolas Chauvat wrote:
>> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
>
> use the metadata tab that appears on top of the document.

Mmm, this is the place I thought it would be, but I couldonly find the
Properties tab, which only allows me to add keywords

>> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework
>> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some
>> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to
>> know is
>> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration
>> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone
>> layout.
>
> add that as you would add any object thru the ZMI, but make sure you
> call the right macros to have headers, footers, etc. Use
> portal_skins/* as an example.

Thanks.

Tom.


From tom at aragne.com  Thu Mar  4 15:13:54 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Thu Mar  4 15:03:09 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info
References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<2m1xo8c126.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <00c201c40225$3a940080$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

>> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a
>> document where I can find out about the folliowing:
>>
>> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents.
>
> Like, e.g. "interview date"? :-)

yup

> This seems to be a more a zope than plone question, and I don't know
> how to do it.
>
>> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework
>> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some
>> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to
>> know is what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an
>> iteration over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the
>> plone layout.
>
> This is easy, ish.  And I've already done it for /epc/interviews/.
> What I did was (1) download the plone 1.0.5 source (2) in the ZMI
> upload CMFPlone/skins/plone_forms/folder_listing.pt to
> /epc/interviews/index_html (3) hack at this a bit.

ha... but I'm coming from the ZMI programming, so I look at it in
another way. I've already code to provide what I want, but I didn't had
the knowledge about the plone layout issues.

>> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation
>> and this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone
>> addicts which can point me directly to the right direction.
>
> I'm planning on staying up as long as it takes tonight to get the site
> ready for public consumption, and suspect #plone on freenode is going
> to be on the receiving end of a lot of questions...
>
> Cheers,
> mwh


From jeremiannika at comcast.net  Thu Mar  4 18:06:28 2004
From: jeremiannika at comcast.net (Jeremiah Foster)
Date: Thu Mar  4 18:05:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes]
Message-ID: <4047B674.3010901@comcast.net>

Hey there,

Whichever way the site is to be structured, it is clear that the work 
flow ought to be structured;

  1. Goals need to be set
  2. Deadlines firmly established
  3. Specific tasks ought to be assigned
  4. Deliverables defined
  5. Execute on deliverables

This straight forward approach may effectuate faster development time. 
It seems the team is semi-mired in a tools, content, style, discussion 
when these types of dialogs are better suited to when deadlines are not 
so near.  Discussion on high level issues is more appropriate to the 
planning stage and this seems like the development stage.

Perhaps if we prioritize according to Jacob's outline, use the old site 
as a template for the new site, and share out the content development 
amongst  team members, that might be a productive approach. If there is 
time after the site is up and functional, then we can either build out 
functionality or modify the structural framework.

Sincerely,

- Jeremiah // Pythonian
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Jeremiah Foster <jeremiannika@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Webite woes
Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:55:17 -0500
Size: 1574
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040304/515b3cf2/EuroPythonWebitewoes.mht
From bea at webwitches.com  Fri Mar  5 03:08:26 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Fri Mar  5 03:06:02 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] conference organisation and web site
Message-ID: <1078474106.421.98.camel@ogg>

Hi all

I am aware of the fact that all the advice is well-meant but I would
like to clarify the picture here. The people working on the conference
and/or site are not a bunch of chaotic wasters and making meta-comments
on how it should be run would not solve any problems even if there were
some. The team is not discussing, the team is producing. Every one else
is discussing. The public picture is therefore rather slanted.

We are running slightly late on a self-imposed deadline, we have spent
and are spending many hours on getting the site ready, while others are
getting together more information to put on the site. The site requires
a good bit of missing content from the local suspects and some technical
fixes from the rest, in order for the registration and accommodation to
work. Yes, it would have been nice to have all the comments 6 weeks ago
when we asked for them, but they didn't come. Now we get them, now we
make the site. Some comments will be taken on board, others won't.

As always: #europython.

see you there

bea



-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Mar  5 05:12:15 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri Mar  5 05:12:22 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<40449051.1070008@infrae.com>	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se>
	<4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>	<4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>	<2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>	<4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk>
	<2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk>

Michael Hudson wrote:

> What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good
> argument :-)

Data privacy?

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From bea at webwitches.com  Fri Mar  5 05:23:31 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Fri Mar  5 05:21:11 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings
In-Reply-To: <4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com>
	<404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se>	<2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk>	<2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk>
	<2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1078482211.417.120.camel@ogg>

On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 11:12, Chris Withers wrote:
> Michael Hudson wrote:
> 
> > What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good
> > argument :-)
> 
> Data privacy?

That doesn't really fit the idea of letting people share rooms over a
wiki and not wanting to remember passwords, does it? That is pretty much
as un-private as you can get. I think that this is a philosophical
discussion more than anything else.

bea



-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From faassen at infrae.com  Fri Mar  5 09:46:50 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri Mar  5 09:44:24 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website constructive feedback
Message-ID: <404892DA.6000803@infrae.com>

Hi there,

This mail is intended to be constructive feedback on the website, 
triggered by a question from Michael on the IRC #europython channel. If 
any of these suggestions are considered not to be constructive, please 
ignore them. :)

* sidebar to the right: upcoming events as it stands now keeps striking 
me as news items. Perhaps this problem will decrease once there are more 
actual news items, pushing 'upcoming events' to the bottom.

* sidebar to the right: lose the calendar. It waste space and if it does 
something beyond show today's date I don't know what it is. :) I can 
already look up today's date in various other ways, and even if we want 
to present today's date on the site, we can do this in text format.

* the screen is rather squished together due to the two sidebars. If 
there were more horizontal space, we'd be able to see more text, and 
have to scroll less.

* the side in inside out. When I go to the site, I want to see the 
latest news, events related to the conference, and I want to see 
information about europython 2004. There needs to be information on the 
homepage about:

   * registering (even if this is not possible yet, it needs to state 
that it will be soon in that case)

   * submitting a talk

   * submitting a refereed paper

If then I'm interested in the general EuroPython origanization I should 
follow a link lower in.

This is currently hidden away until I click either in navigation or in 
the tabs.

* the tabs are a really weird way of navigation. They don't seem to be 
context dependent, and 'More info' brings me to the same page every 
time. I don't see how this tab add any value. 'Talks' currently seems to 
be broken. In general the tab navigation seems pretty odd. I am 
expecting multiple views on a particular object or subsite, but instead 
they seem to be links to particular places in the site.

* the navigation pane is odd. I jump around strangely in it when I click 
on tabs, and if I click the top one I end up somewhere in the middle. In 
addition if I click down from top to bottom I go through:

   * a page about attending. This is fine, except there should be 
concrete information about how to register (or if not possible yet, that 
this is so)

   * an 'events' folder. This folder isn't done yet, and basically 
replicates the events I can access through the sidebar. It's confusing 
this is the second navigation option. I'm interested about:

     * how to register

     * what talks there are

     * the location

     * how I submit a talk

   * a 'news' folder. The same story here. It's unfinished, it claims 
there are no news items, and I can already get to this using the sidebar 
and using the tab at the top.

   * press releases. As far down to the bottom as possible. Normal 
people don't read press release archives first. :)

   * sessions -- this should move up. Apparently sessions and its sub 
entry 'talks' show almost but not quite the same thing. The outer one 
adds a mysterious 'browse' tab that I can click and that gives me 
mysterious information.

   * sponsors: further down to the bottom; most people won't be sponsors 
and don't want to know about sponsors before they hear about sprints.

   * sprints -- move this up to near the sessions, as it's a 'conference 
event'.

In general, make it very clear that the 'call for papers' is *different* 
from the 'call for talks'. The refereed paper track is actually 
interesting to *less* people than the 'call for talks'. This needs to 
very clear. People who want to submit a talk to a track don't need to 
distracted by stuff about call for papers, lest they confuse the two.

Regards,

Martijn

From faassen at infrae.com  Fri Mar  5 12:09:41 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri Mar  5 12:07:16 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Re: website constructive feedback
In-Reply-To: <m3vfljfgqd.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
References: <404892DA.6000803@infrae.com>
	<m3vfljfgqd.fsf@pc150.maths.bris.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <4048B455.9080900@infrae.com>

Michael Hudson wrote:
[calendar]
> Well, yes, it does more than that.  Note sure it's worth the space it
> takes, though.

The point is I don't know what it does, and I'm the newbie user that's 
therefore not going to use it. :)


>>This is currently hidden away until I click either in navigation or in
>>the tabs. 
> 
> My take on this is that we should redirect (HTTP 301 style) from / to
> /conferences/epc2004/.

If that works as a quick fix that's good. It's not going to make 
navigation easier though.


>>* the tabs are a really weird way of navigation. They don't seem to be
>>  context dependent, 
> 
> 
> They're not meant to be.

Peculiar use of tabs, then. :)


>>  and 'More info' brings me to the same page every time.
> 
> 
> Yes, it probably isn't too cleverly named.

Definitely not, I don't expect 'More info' gets me to the home page of 
the current conference. :)

[snip]
>>  In general the tab navigation seems pretty odd. I am expecting
>>  multiple views on a particular object or subsite, but instead they
>>  seem to be links to particular places in the site.
> 
> I think you may have spent too long staring at the ZMI :-)

Actually plone uses this metaphor itself. It's the original tab metaphor 
as far as I understand. These days tabs are also used for a kind of 
multi-document-interface, like in Mozilla.

Here's a fun page about tabs:

http://digilander.libero.it/chiediloapippo/Engineering/iarchitect/tabs.htm

The top level tabs seem to be redundant anyway.

>>* the navigation pane is odd. I jump around strangely in it when I
>>  click on tabs, and if I click the top one I end up somewhere in the
>>  middle. In addition if I click down from top to bottom I go through:
>>
>>   * a page about attending. This is fine, except there should be
>>     concrete information about how to register (or if not possible
>>     yet, that this is so)
> 
> 
> Uh, isn't that on this page?

Yeah, at the very bottom if I read all the text. There should be 
something on the top in big letters stating "registration will open 15 
march". It shouldn't talk about refereed paper proposals or submission 
of talks at all, and it starts with this right at the top. This is not 
the page about this. It's about me wanting to go to the conference.

>>   * an 'events' folder. This folder isn't done yet, and basically
>>     replicates the events I can access through the sidebar.  
> 
> We're probably going to hide it...

Good.

>>     It's confusing this is the second navigation option. I'm
>>     interested about:
>>
>>     * how to register
>>
>>     * what talks there are
>>
>>     * the location
>>
>>     * how I submit a talk
> 
> 
> That's what the idea of the tabs across the top is.

The Welcome tab doesn't say anything about this; it goes to a very 
general page about EuroPython.

The news tab doesn't either.

Nor does the search tab.

'More info' then brings me to the attending page, though not actually to 
the EPC root page itself.

Finally the 'talks' tab, while interesting in intent gives me an error.

The tabs at the top are not doing their job.

>>   * a 'news' folder. The same story here. It's unfinished, it claims
>>     there are no news items, and I can already get to this using the
>>     sidebar and using the tab at the top.
> 
> 
> This should probably be hidden too.

Agreed.

>>   * press releases. As far down to the bottom as possible. Normal
>>     people don't read press release archives first. :)
>>
>>   * sessions -- this should move up. Apparently sessions and its sub
>>     entry 'talks' show almost but not quite the same thing. The outer
>>     one adds a mysterious 'browse' tab that I can click and that
>>     gives me mysterious information.
> 
> 
>>   * sponsors: further down to the bottom; most people won't be
>>     sponsors and don't want to know about sponsors before they hear
>>     about sprints.
>>
>>   * sprints -- move this up to near the sessions, as it's a
>>     'conference event'.
>>
>>In general, make it very clear that the 'call for papers' is
>>*different* from the 'call for talks'.
> 
> 
> Done, I think?
> 

Um, not really:

The 'homepage' for EPC 2004 (which I can only go to if I navigate into 
it, tabs don't bring me there) says:

Call for Papers

And then goes on talkinga bout a call for participation, links there. It 
explains there are two kinds, but under the heading of 'call for papers'?

Then the link to the press release on call for participation:

Mostly talks about the non refereed tracks, though mentions the refereed 
track first. This page seems mostly okay.

Also I get a weird nesting effect in the sidebar, and probably the URLs, 
I can click so I get this:

http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/conferences/epc2004/pressreleases/call_for_participation_html

with a pretty peculiar sidebar.

Again, I expect answers to my questions straight away when I get to the 
site:

  * how much it costs and how to register.

  * what the conference and the talks are about.

  * the location, where do I need to go.

  * how I submit a talk (and learn there I can also submit a refereed paper)

I'm not getting answers to some of these questions without significant 
amounts of random clicking around. This is wrong.

I'll try to write something soon which helps here, though Infrae is 
keeping me rather overly busy at the moment..

>>The refereed paper track is actually interesting to *less* people
>>than the 'call for talks'. This needs to very clear. People who want
>>to submit a talk to a track don't need to distracted by stuff about
>>call for papers, lest they confuse the two. 
> 
> We need pages that detail how you register for the con, what's
> involved in submitting a talk, etc.  They're not there yet.

Right, that will certainly help. :)

Regards,

Martijn

From faassen at infrae.com  Fri Mar  5 17:46:53 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Fri Mar  5 17:44:30 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website new feedback :)
Message-ID: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com>

Hi there,

Bea, of course I didn't hear a thing about me being right about the tabs. :)

Anyway, the tabs make navigation is a lot easier now. Some feedback 
based on what I can see now. Sorry this is so incremental, but of course 
I work this out as I go along:

'Welcome'

This needs to be one page with the important facts, with what where when 
how much, how to join, how to help. It doesn't have everything yet.

'How to attend':

Perhaps call this 'attending'.

We need to have stand out more that registration is not open at this 
point, but will open soon, under its own heading. Preferably at the top 
of the page, not at the bottom like it is now. Registration itself also 
needs to be at the top of the page, with more details aobut when, where 
and how much later on.

'How to register for talks'

A subtly confusing title. You register to *give* talks, not to attend 
talks. The link to actually submit a talk needs to be higher up, so it 
doesn't scroll down off the page and I don't have to wade through text.

Also I think the conference *contents* needs to come first. So, perhaps 
call this 'talks', not registering for talks, and fill the contents with 
what tracks there are (already there) and later on the famous talk matrix.

Right now need to give prominence to how to submit a talk, but it's 
fairly natural for a person who wants to do so to click on 'talks' too.

'How to submit refereed papers'

I don't think this needs it own tab entry. I'd also shorten this to 
'refereed papers' so that if you keep it as a tab this can turn into a 
list of the papers later on, once they're submitted.

'Where does it happen'

Doesn't need its own entry as linked from 'attending', as long as the 
location is in the sidebar. Once ordered folder works I assume we can 
also reorder the navigation sidebar to similar system as well. Could be 
shortened to 'location'.

In general, names in the tabs should be the same as those in the sidebar.

I'll see whether I can write/edit/rewrite at least some of these pages 
this weekend, but I'm not promising anything...

Regards,

Martijn






From bea at webwitches.com  Sat Mar  6 03:49:45 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Sat Mar  6 03:47:14 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website new feedback :)
In-Reply-To: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com>
References: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com>
Message-ID: <1078562985.1062.167.camel@ogg>

On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 23:46, Martijn Faassen wrote:
> Hi there,
> 
> Bea, of course I didn't hear a thing about me being right about the tabs. :)

dammit. I _knew_ you'd read through the backlog ;)

[snip]

> I'll see whether I can write/edit/rewrite at least some of these pages 
> this weekend, but I'm not promising anything...

Please do. You are most welcome :)

Thank!

bea



-- 
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.
B?atrice Fontaine
Fabriksgatan 7 - SE- 96131 Boden
Tel + 46 921 150 45 - GSM + 46 70 640 2773
E-mail : bea@webwitches.com - URL: www.webwitches.com


From jacob at strakt.com  Sat Mar  6 18:32:54 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Sat Mar  6 18:32:59 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment
Message-ID: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>

http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588


From tismer at stackless.com  Sat Mar  6 22:22:34 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Sat Mar  6 22:22:37 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment
In-Reply-To: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <404A957A.1000202@stackless.com>

Jacob Hall?n wrote:

> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588

Which exceptionally gifted human being did that?

impressed-ly -- chris

-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer@stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/


From lac at strakt.com  Sat Mar  6 22:38:52 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sat Mar  6 22:39:09 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment 
In-Reply-To: Message from Christian Tismer <tismer@stackless.com> 
	of "Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100." <404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> 
References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>
	<404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> 
Message-ID: <200403070338.i273cqpp005112@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100, Christian Tismer writes:
>Jacob Hall?n wrote:
>
>> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb
>253e7e2932949588
>
>Which exceptionally gifted human being did that?
>
>impressed-ly -- chris
>
>-- 
>Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer@stackless.com>


The cut out parts of the Bayern Tapestry are here:
http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php

as part of the 'Historic Tale Construction Kit'.

authors are Karnebogen and Ingvblvth -- whose pictures you can see on
that page.

Jacob made the story though, and assembled the bits.

Laura Creighton

ps

I say we should send it to comp.lang.python, and comp.lang.python.announce

pps 

yes we know about the typo on page one.  but --heh-- so has 
http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php  !! So we could lie and
say we made an error to look folksy, but it would be a lie ...

From bea at webwitches.com  Sun Mar  7 07:30:08 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Sun Mar  7 07:27:30 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Faassen's cooking recipee for website improvements
Message-ID: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg>

... is being currently adapted and implemented by me because most of it
made sense, it being Martijn and all :)

Those interested and not otherwise engaged should look around the site
to see if it makes sense to them, too.

see you on #europython

bea

-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From tom at aragne.com  Sun Mar  7 14:12:40 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Sun Mar  7 14:11:34 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment
References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com><404A957A.1000202@stackless.com>
	<200403070338.i273cqpp005112@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <004601c40479$88aeaf80$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Nicely done!

Tom

Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100, Christian Tismer
> writes:
>> Jacob Hall?n wrote:
>>
>>>
http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb
>>> 253e7e2932949588
>>
>> Which exceptionally gifted human being did that?
>>
>> impressed-ly -- chris
>>
>> --
>> Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer@stackless.com>
>
>
> The cut out parts of the Bayern Tapestry are here:
> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php
>
> as part of the 'Historic Tale Construction Kit'.
>
> authors are Karnebogen and Ingvblvth -- whose pictures you can see on
> that page.
>
> Jacob made the story though, and assembled the bits.
>
> Laura Creighton
>
> ps
>
> I say we should send it to comp.lang.python, and
> comp.lang.python.announce
>
> pps
>
> yes we know about the typo on page one.  but --heh-- so has
> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php  !! So we could lie
> and say we made an error to look folksy, but it would be a lie ...
>
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


From tom at aragne.com  Sun Mar  7 16:17:36 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Sun Mar  7 16:06:44 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews
References: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg>
Message-ID: <006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

I'm eager to start with the interviews again and I think it is time to
start with them.
Does somebody has an idea of persons he/she wants me to interview.

Regards,
Tom.


From js at aixtraware.de  Mon Mar  8 05:38:43 2004
From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz)
Date: Mon Mar  8 05:38:41 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join
Message-ID: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de>

hi,

in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference, 
it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be 
butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged 
in, which in turn requires to join the site.

Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the 
web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from 
doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for 
the conference.

So I suggest the following:

on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this:

support the idea of an European Python conference and express your 
interest in the EPC 2004 in G?teborg by joining this site as a member. 
It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address.
By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference, 
also you as a member have the following advantages:

- personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit
- easier registration process
- express your personal preferences for example for food
- book a room in a cheap accomodation
- easier to submit talks

more shuggar for joining can be added...


just my 2 ec



-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en                                Joachim Schmitz
......................................................................
AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851
H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163

From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Mar  8 07:33:16 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon Mar  8 07:30:28 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews
In-Reply-To: <006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg>
	<006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <404C680C.5070002@infrae.com>

Tom Deprez wrote:
> I'm eager to start with the interviews again and I think it is time
> to start with them. Does somebody has an idea of persons he/she wants
> me to interview.

The keynote speakers; Guido and Mark Shuttleworth. It would probably be 
a good idea for both of them to send the list of interview questions 
proposed around to this list a few times so people can comment. I'm sure 
  for instance Steve may be able to come up with interesting leading 
questions for schooltool for Mark. :)

Regards,

Martijn

From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar  8 07:34:36 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar  8 07:34:48 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join 
In-Reply-To: Message from Joachim Schmitz <js@aixtraware.de> 
	of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100." <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> 
References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> 
Message-ID: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes:
>hi,
>
>in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference,=
>20
>it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be=20
>butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged=
>20
>in, which in turn requires to join the site.
>
>Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the=20
>web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from=20
>doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for=
>20
>the conference.
>
>So I suggest the following:
>
>on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this:
>
>support the idea of an European Python conference and express your=20
>interest in the EPC 2004 in G=F6teborg by joining this site as a member.=
>20
>It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address.

is it?  I thought you had to have a password as well.


>By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference,=20
>also you as a member have the following advantages:
>
>- personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit
>- easier registration process
>- express your personal preferences for example for food
>- book a room in a cheap accomodation
>- easier to submit talks
>
>more shuggar for joining can be added...
>
>
>just my 2 ec
>
>
>
>--=20
>Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen                                Joachim Schmit
>=
>z
>......................................................................
>AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851
>H=FCsgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163
>
>_______________________________________________
>EuroPython mailing list
>EuroPython@python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


This is fine by me as long as there is another option.

'All I want to do is register to attend the conference'  click.
for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of 
involvement with the website.

Laura

From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar  8 07:50:27 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon Mar  8 07:50:30 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment
In-Reply-To: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> (
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jacob_Hall=E9n's_message_of?= "Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:32:54
	+0100")
References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net>

Jacob Hall?n <jacob@strakt.com> writes:

> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588

Cool!  We must find some way of linking to this from the website...

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  MAN:  How can I tell that the past isn't a fiction designed to
        account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical
        sensations and my state of mind?
                   -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12

From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Mar  8 08:05:32 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon Mar  8 08:05:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join
In-Reply-To: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de>
	<200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <404C6F9C.5090100@infrae.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> 'All I want to do is register to attend the conference'  click.
> for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of 
> involvement with the website.

I agree that this minimal use case should be accomplished.

Joachim, if you haven't already, please check out the use cases I posted 
the other day?

Regards,

Martijn

From js at aixtraware.de  Mon Mar  8 08:12:33 2004
From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz)
Date: Mon Mar  8 08:12:31 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join
In-Reply-To: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de>
	<200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <404C7141.40007@aixtraware.de>

Laura Creighton said the following on 03/08/04 13:34:
> In a message of Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes:
>>It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address.
> 
> 
> is it?  I thought you had to have a password as well.

not in the current join form, but we can autogenerate a password, the 
member can change this later in his memberarea if he wishes.

> This is fine by me as long as there is another option.
> 
> 'All I want to do is register to attend the conference'  click.
> for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of 
> involvement with the website.
> 
I actually want call joining a high involvement, it is more expressing 
your interest in EPC and if you do it (the joining) at a early date, you 
can do the registration stuff later more easely and have the options to 
specify your preferences.

but yes we also will have the plain registration button, where you can 
register and pay without joining.

but then you cannot:

- reserve a room
- specify your food preferences
- more to come ...


-- 
Mit freundlichen Gr??en                                Joachim Schmitz
......................................................................
AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851
H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163

From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar  8 08:23:23 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar  8 08:23:30 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment
In-Reply-To: <2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net>
References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com>
	<2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <200403081423.23814.jacob@strakt.com>

On m?ndag 8 mars 2004 13.50, Michael Hudson wrote:
> Jacob Hall?n <jacob@strakt.com> writes:
> > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb25
> >3e7e2932949588
>
> Cool!  We must find some way of linking to this from the website...

I have made screenshots of all the pages and corrected the numerous mistakes. 
We can now put the story on our own website.

Jacob


From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar  8 08:28:01 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar  8 08:28:07 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join
In-Reply-To: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de>
References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de>
Message-ID: <200403081428.01986.jacob@strakt.com>

On m?ndag 8 mars 2004 11.38, Joachim Schmitz wrote:
> hi,
>
> in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference,
> it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be
> butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged
> in, which in turn requires to join the site.
>
> Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the
> web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from
> doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for
> the conference.
>
> So I suggest the following:
>
> on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this:
>
> support the idea of an European Python conference and express your
> interest in the EPC 2004 in G?teborg by joining this site as a member.
> It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address.
> By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference,
> also you as a member have the following advantages:
>
> - personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit
> - easier registration process
> - express your personal preferences for example for food
> - book a room in a cheap accomodation
> - easier to submit talks
>
> more sugar for joining can be added...

This is ok by me, as long as it is true. If you have to join the site in order 
to register, we must say so explicitly, and have language explaining that 
this helps us in handling their requests.

Jacob


From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Tue Mar  9 04:20:59 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Tue Mar  9 04:21:28 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Urm?
Message-ID: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk>

This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I want to know 
and can't find out I thought I'd ask here:

1. When can I book to go to the conference? When does the early-bird period 
start and end? How much is it and where do I sign up?

2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of the 
conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport?

2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are there 
discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any travel/accomodation 
subsidy for speakers?

I would have thought these are the more common questions people come to the 
website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the space on the front 
page, rather than a honking great gif, which is cute but doesn't help me at all...

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From mwh at python.net  Tue Mar  9 05:24:21 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar  9 05:24:24 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Urm?
In-Reply-To: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of
	"Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:20:59 +0000")
References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <2mr7w2z5be.fsf@starship.python.net>

Chris Withers <lists@simplistix.co.uk> writes:

> This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I want
> to know and can't find out I thought I'd ask here:
>
> 1. When can I book to go to the conference? 

We're currently aiming for next monday, i.e. the 15th.

> When does the early-bird period start and end?

Well, it starts when it starts (see above) and is currently finishing
on the first of May.  There's no hurry.

> How much is it 

Early bird reg is 160 euro.

> and where do I sign up?

On the website, when we've finished it :-)

> 2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of
>    the conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport?

Wait a day or two, and all this will be explained in beautiful clarity
on the website.  It's also been discussed on this list...

> 2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are
>    there discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any
>    travel/accomodation subsidy for speakers?

Ditto.

> I would have thought these are the more common questions people come
> to the website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the
> space on the front page, rather than a honking great gif, which is
> cute but doesn't help me at all...

Patience!

Please note that what's currently at www.europython.org is going to be
entirely replaced, pretty soon (we hope).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  I don't have any special knowledge of all this. In fact, I made all
  the above up, in the hope that it corresponds to reality.
                                            -- Mark Carroll, ucam.chat

From tom at aragne.com  Tue Mar  9 13:10:44 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Tue Mar  9 13:13:29 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Urm?
References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment?
The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so
it's normal you don't find that kind of information.


Tom.

Chris Withers wrote:
> This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I
> want to know and can't find out I thought I'd ask here:
>
> 1. When can I book to go to the conference? When does the early-bird
> period
> start and end? How much is it and where do I sign up?
>
> 2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of
> the conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport?
>
> 2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are
> there discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any
> travel/accomodation subsidy for speakers?
>
> I would have thought these are the more common questions people come
> to the website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the
> space on the front page, rather than a honking great gif, which is
> cute but doesn't help me at all...
>
> cheers,
>
> Chris


From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Wed Mar 10 08:46:42 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Wed Mar 10 08:46:48 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Urm?
In-Reply-To: <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk>
	<010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk>

Tom Deprez wrote:

> I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment?
> The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so
> it's normal you don't find that kind of information.

And that's a GOOD thing? ;-)

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From faassen at infrae.com  Wed Mar 10 09:41:15 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Wed Mar 10 09:38:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Urm?
In-Reply-To: <404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk>
References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk>	<010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk>
Message-ID: <404F290B.2030707@infrae.com>

Chris Withers wrote:
> Tom Deprez wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment?
>> The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so
>> it's normal you don't find that kind of information.
> 
> 
> And that's a GOOD thing? ;-)

Did he say it was a good thing? Obviously the new site is being worked 
on by us in order to get this information online. Want to contribute, 
please contact them on irc.freenode.net on the #europython channel.

Regards,

Martijn

From bh at udev.org  Wed Mar 10 10:44:04 2004
From: bh at udev.org (Henrion Benjamin)
Date: Wed Mar 10 10:49:23 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone?
Message-ID: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>

Hello,

I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a
conference (like Europython)?

Will the next website use Plone?

-- 
Benjamin Henrion <bh@udev.org>
http://bh.udev.org

From lac at strakt.com  Wed Mar 10 10:52:46 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed Mar 10 10:53:00 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Henrion Benjamin <bh@udev.org> of "Wed,
	10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100." <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> 
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> 
Message-ID: <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100, Henrion Benjamin writes:
>Hello,
>
>I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a
>conference (like Europython)?
>
>Will the next website use Plone?

Yes.

>
>-- 
>Benjamin Henrion <bh@udev.org>
>http://bh.udev.org

Laura

From faassen at infrae.com  Wed Mar 10 11:53:38 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Wed Mar 10 11:50:32 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone?
In-Reply-To: <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>
	<200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100, Henrion Benjamin writes:
> 
>>Hello,
>>
>>I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a
>>conference (like Europython)?
>>
>>Will the next website use Plone?
> 
> 
> Yes.
> 

That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this 
project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the 
aim of the current project.

Regards,

Martijn

From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Thu Mar 11 06:04:25 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Thu Mar 11 06:04:59 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone?
In-Reply-To: <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com>
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>	<200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<404F4812.2010908@infrae.com>
Message-ID: <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk>

Martijn Faassen wrote:

> That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this 
> project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the 
> aim of the current project.

For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference management kit?

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 11 07:05:12 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu Mar 11 07:05:24 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Withers <lists@simplistix.co.uk> 
	of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT." <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> 
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>
	<200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> 
Message-ID: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT, Chris Withers writes:
>Martijn Faassen wrote:
>
>> That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this
> 
>> project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the 
>> aim of the current project.
>
>For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference manageme
>nt kit?
>
>cheers,
>
>Chris

Yes.  

(I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the
 principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors.
 Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said 
_it's not ready yet_.)

I appreciate the fact that things have slipped 2 weeks has left
you with the impression  that  we don't know what the hell we
are doing, but the fact of the matter is that this particular
conference team has over 20 years of experience running things.

Our problem is that we know our problem domain too well, not too
little.  And because I am being a complete jerk in not allowing things
to launch 'because they are good enough for an amateur conference'.
I refuse to compromise on my standards, which makes for more work
that takes longer, but be a tad more patient and I am sure you
will like the result.

Laura Creighton
(off to write more content)

Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant!  Why don't
you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?!
Complaining is _easy_.



From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 11 08:01:16 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu Mar 11 08:01:20 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] hey Henrion Benjamin
Message-ID: <200403111301.i2BD1GZd019918@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

can you tell your domain that I am not a jerk?

My mail to you bounces.

 This is the Postfix program at host bug.udev.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

                        The Postfix program

<bh@pong.udev.org>: host mail.bh.udev.org[213.186.46.45] said: 553 sorry, that
    domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1)
-----

thanks very much,
Laura

From jacob at strakt.com  Thu Mar 11 19:47:37 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Thu Mar 11 19:47:42 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
Message-ID: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>

Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some 
things that need dealing with, before we can go public.

Jacob

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am imagining that I am somebody who would like to submit a refereed paper.

I look at the website, find general information, find the refereed track on 
the tab at the top.

I read all the stuff and click on the link to the talk submission page.

* (Here I would like to be sent to the right place on the page, but I don't 
know how to express that.)

I click on "submit talk". After a little bit of thinking I figure out that I 
have to register. Not ideal, but workable.

Once I have registered, I can klick a button to log in. An extra step, but 
still fairly ok. * (It would be better if I automatically logged in.)

When I click on the login button, I am sent to a page that says "You are now 
logged in" and "Items published since your last login".

* Now I am totally lost -- I was trying to submit an abstract for a talk. Why 
am I getting "Items pubished since my last login"? I haven't even logged in 
before!

* This needs to be fixed. Can't you use server side session handling, a 
cookie, or some URL mangling to store the information about where the user 
was trying to go?

Anyway, after having found my way back to the submissions page, I want to 
enter my abstract. I am now faced with a form which says "talk title", "short 
description", "Long description", etc.

* There is no mention of the abstract on this page. Does it go in the short or 
the long description? I'd like to format this page so it suits refereed 
papers, which are different from normal talks. Can I?

* I am also confused about the "type of talk" selection box. I know that I 
selected "refereed paper", so why do I have to enter this information again?

* Why do I get the options 15, 30, 45 and 90 minutes? 90 minutes is an option 
only for a tutorial, and I thought we decided to have either 30 or 60 minutes 
as talk lengths.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From the perspective of other visitors on the site, there are some more things 
that I would like to see changed:

* A tutorial is by default 90 minutes, and should only have that option. It 
should also have the "type of talk" set to "tutorial" with no other options.

* Regular talks can be 30 or 60 minutes. Those should be the only options.

* I still find the "navigation" box to be more harm than help. It gives 
different names to the tabs that are found along the top, it shows strange 
listings of events, no news under Europython 2004 (because the news are 
stored elsewhere) and show a raw directory structure, that is of no use to 
the visitor. Can't we get rid of this box?

* When you click the "Welcome" tab along the top, you come to a page which has 
a box along the left side with a caption "Related". This is very confusing. 
Can we make it go away?

Jacob Hall?n


From stuart at stuartbishop.net  Fri Mar 12 00:10:44 2004
From: stuart at stuartbishop.net (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Fri Mar 12 00:11:11 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? 
In-Reply-To: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>
	<200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk>
	<200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <9D7E7562-73E3-11D8-87C9-000A95A06FC6@stuartbishop.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 11/03/2004, at 11:05 PM, Laura Creighton wrote:

> In a message of Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT, Chris Withers writes:
>> Martijn Faassen wrote:
>>
>>> That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn 
>>> this
>>
>>> project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not 
>>> the
>>> aim of the current project.
>>
>> For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference 
>> manageme
>

> (I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the
>  principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors.
>  Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said
> _it's not ready yet_.)

And if it is still not ready, the 2nd generation of our system
should be complete. http://commongroundconferences.com/ :-)

> Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant!  Why don't
> you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?!
> Complaining is _easy_.

And fun too ;-)

- -- Stuart (Australia's Europython 2004 contingent) 

- --  
Stuart Bishop <stuart@stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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From lists at simplistix.co.uk  Fri Mar 12 02:47:41 2004
From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers)
Date: Fri Mar 12 02:47:50 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone?
In-Reply-To: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost>
	<200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk>
	<200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <40516B1D.5090802@simplistix.co.uk>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> (I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the
>  principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors.
>  Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said 
> _it's not ready yet_.)

That's why I said next year ;-)

> I appreciate the fact that things have slipped 2 weeks has left
> you with the impression  that  we don't know what the hell we
> are doing, but the fact of the matter is that this particular
> conference team has over 20 years of experience running things.

Not at all, I'm well aware of how much fun events can be to organise :-S

> Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant!  Why don't
> you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?!

...I subscribe to the Fred Brookes view of throwing more people at a project to 
try and make it finish faster...

(that said, if you have any specific technical problems with Zope, do give me a 
shout)

> Complaining is _easy_.

...and what Stuart said ;-)

cheers,

Chris

-- 
Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting
            - http://www.simplistix.co.uk


From bea at webwitches.com  Fri Mar 12 03:20:48 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Fri Mar 12 03:17:07 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
In-Reply-To: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote:
> Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some 
> things that need dealing with, before we can go public.

[snip]

Thanks for the forensic walk around the site, Jacob ;)

Some of the things you are addressing are indeed Plone defaults that can
and should be customised (like where you land when you've joined).
Others (like related, news, etc) were set up by those who gave Plone the
first try as a sustainable conference website environment,so they should
get a last chance to protest before we kill anything.

I think that we need dario, michael, joachim, shae, me (and other
hopefuls, of course!) and you online at the same time, to iron these
last things out. We need you to sit in - or at least by ;) - to say:
"yes, that's the way I want it" after each item has been dealt with.
Otherwise we will add another confirmation phase behind it, which is a
waste of time, imho. Does that appeal to you? Because then I would
suggest that all those involved mention their least available times
between now and Monday evening and we make a deal to sit together for
2-3 hours, which is all it should take.

OK with all those who feel personally addressed by the question?

shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back
late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on Saturday
and Sunday.


bea


-- 
Beatrice Fontaine <bea@webwitches.com>


From bea at webwitches.com  Fri Mar 12 03:52:02 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Fri Mar 12 03:48:25 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
In-Reply-To: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote:
> Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some 
> things that need dealing with, before we can go public.
[snip]

http://z3u.com/ep2004/WebWerkersLog

I made a job list of jacob's message and included my own comments.


see you on #europython!


bea

-- 
Beatrice Fontaine <bea@webwitches.com>


From mwh at python.net  Fri Mar 12 08:04:03 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Fri Mar 12 08:04:06 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
In-Reply-To: <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost> (Beatrice Fontaine's
	message of "12 Mar 2004 09:20:48 +0100")
References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
	<1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <2md67itdx8.fsf@starship.python.net>

Beatrice Fontaine <bea@webwitches.com> writes:

> shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back
> late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on Saturday
> and Sunday.

My weekend plans are somewhat up in the air, but I'm unlikely to be
around for much of it.

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  You owe the Oracle a star-spangled dunce cap.
                 -- Internet Oracularity Internet Oracularity #1299-08

From jacob at strakt.com  Fri Mar 12 10:43:39 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Fri Mar 12 10:43:44 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
In-Reply-To: <1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost>
References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
	<1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <200403121643.39379.jacob@strakt.com>

On fredag 12 mars 2004 09.52, Beatrice Fontaine wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote:
> > Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are
> > some things that need dealing with, before we can go public.
>
> [snip]
>
> http://z3u.com/ep2004/WebWerkersLog
>
> I made a job list of jacob's message and included my own comments.
>
>
> see you on #europython!


I added some comments on the Webwerkers page in response to Beas comments. I 
hope they clarify what I'm after.

Jacob


From tom at aragne.com  Fri Mar 12 13:51:47 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Fri Mar 12 13:50:52 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website
References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com>
	<1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <009001c40863$166b6ce0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Urgh, sorry, I won't be online much this weekend (family matters). I'll
hop in when I'm able to. Don't know if I would be great of help, dough:
solving something plonish would probably take me more time than the
meeting itself.
It's a shame, I haven't been able to help you at all. And perhaps for
the better of it, the site is looking nicely.

Regards,
Tom.

Beatrice Fontaine wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote:
>> Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there
>> are some things that need dealing with, before we can go public.
>
> [snip]
>
> Thanks for the forensic walk around the site, Jacob ;)
>
> Some of the things you are addressing are indeed Plone defaults that
> can
> and should be customised (like where you land when you've joined).
> Others (like related, news, etc) were set up by those who gave Plone
> the first try as a sustainable conference website environment,so they
> should
> get a last chance to protest before we kill anything.
>
> I think that we need dario, michael, joachim, shae, me (and other
> hopefuls, of course!) and you online at the same time, to iron these
> last things out. We need you to sit in - or at least by ;) - to say:
> "yes, that's the way I want it" after each item has been dealt with.
> Otherwise we will add another confirmation phase behind it, which is a
> waste of time, imho. Does that appeal to you? Because then I would
> suggest that all those involved mention their least available times
> between now and Monday evening and we make a deal to sit together for
> 2-3 hours, which is all it should take.
>
> OK with all those who feel personally addressed by the question?
>
> shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back
> late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on
> Saturday
> and Sunday.
>
>
> bea


From tom at aragne.com  Fri Mar 12 17:56:38 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Fri Mar 12 18:06:02 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Plone site
Message-ID: <00c301c40886$ba6b4a90$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

Why am I only able to add a 

Talks Folder
People Folder
Plone Conference Person
Plone Conference Track
Plone Conference Talk

item inside the epc2002 & epc2003 folder?

Thanks,
tom


From tom at aragne.com  Fri Mar 12 20:04:45 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Fri Mar 12 20:03:46 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Old content to New
Message-ID: <00d501c40897$2ee24080$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

I've cleaned up the root of the develop instance as much as I could. All
objects inside are needed for survival of the old websites (ie websites
of 2003 & 2003), so please don't delete these.

Further, I've migrated the 2003 contents to the develop server.

I've added links to 2002 & 2003 folders in the epc plone site. Most
links work..., unfortunately not all.
I know the talks database has been migrated and contains all old talks,
we should adjust the code in the 2002/2003 folders so the 'session
track/talk' links work again. I need to discuss this with Joachim if
possible. (but that something for later)


PS. I changed the top 'EuroPython 2004' link to 'EuroPython' since that
top link opens the leaves with all conferences.
Also, now, when a person enters 'http://europython-develop.zope.nl',
he/she will arrive at the page of the current conference.

PPS. Be my guest to change my changes/additions.

Regards,
Tom.


From tom at aragne.com  Sat Mar 13 04:47:04 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Sat Mar 13 04:53:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze
Message-ID: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hmmm,

It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other
also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze?

Regards,
Tom.


From ivo at amaze.nl  Sat Mar 13 05:04:00 2004
From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk)
Date: Sat Mar 13 05:03:40 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze
In-Reply-To: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl>

Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hmmm,
> 
> It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other
> also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze?
> 

It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously. Someone will 
need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix the problem right away, 
but we're working on it.

Cheers

	Ivo

> Regards,
> Tom.
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


-- 
Drs. I.R. van der Wijk                                      -=-
Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12                     Amaze Internet Services V.O.F.
1017 RC Amsterdam, NL                                       -=-
T +31-20-4688336         F +31-20-4688337       Zope/Plone/Content Management
W http://www.amaze.nl    E info@amaze.nl           Open Source Solutions
W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl                 Consultancy
PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp

From ivo at amaze.nl  Sat Mar 13 06:10:43 2004
From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk)
Date: Sat Mar 13 06:10:25 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze
In-Reply-To: <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl>
References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<4052DC90.107@amaze.nl>
Message-ID: <4052EC33.5020908@amaze.nl>

Ivo van der Wijk wrote:
> Tom Deprez wrote:
> 
>> Hmmm,
>>
>> It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other
>> also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze?
>>
> 
> It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously. Someone 
> will need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix the problem 
> right away, but we're working on it.
> 

The server is up again.

Cheers

	Ivo

-- 
Drs. I.R. van der Wijk                                      -=-
Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12                     Amaze Internet Services V.O.F.
1017 RC Amsterdam, NL                                       -=-
T +31-20-4688336         F +31-20-4688337       Zope/Plone/Content Management
W http://www.amaze.nl    E info@amaze.nl           Open Source Solutions
W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl                 Consultancy
PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp

From tom at aragne.com  Sat Mar 13 06:22:16 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Sat Mar 13 06:35:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze
References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<4052DC90.107@amaze.nl> <4052EC33.5020908@amaze.nl>
Message-ID: <010701c408ef$6ce30600$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Thanks!

Tom;

Ivo van der Wijk wrote:
> Ivo van der Wijk wrote:
>> Tom Deprez wrote:
>> 
>>> Hmmm,
>>> 
>>> It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are
>>> other also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of
>>> amaze? 
>>> 
>> 
>> It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously.
>> Someone will need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix
>> the problem right away, but we're working on it.
>> 
> 
> The server is up again.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ivo

From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar 15 08:56:05 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar 15 08:56:11 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today
Message-ID: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com>

Unfortunately, Laura and I will be on a plane to Brussels when the meeting is 
held today. I hope mwh can take command of the meeting.

We need to focus on  getting the website online. Any more delays and we have 
to cancel the refereed paper track. Then we need to start on the 
registration/room reservation, so that we don't run into time problems with 
that. Our plan was to open registration/reservations today, and I guess we 
are not in a position to do that.

Cheers

Jacob

AGENDA
A. Introductions, if any

B. Information/Decision items 

C. Progress reports

D. Urgent discussion/action items
- Getting the website online
Needs to get done. Announcements to comp.lang.python.announce to be sent.
More announcements to be made. More and better texts from track chairmen.

- Registration and room reservation
Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the 
people working with it need?

E. Followups

F. Other items 


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 15 14:27:57 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Mon Mar 15 14:28:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today
In-Reply-To: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com> (
	=?iso-8859-1?q?Jacob_Hall=E9n's_message_of?= "Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:56:05
	+0100")
References: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com>
Message-ID: <2m7jxlrjuq.fsf@starship.python.net>

Jacob Hall?n <jacob@strakt.com> writes:

> D. Urgent discussion/action items
> - Getting the website online
> Needs to get done. Announcements to comp.lang.python.announce to be sent.
> More announcements to be made. More and better texts from track chairmen.

I think we're ready here.  Not perfect, but good enough.  We agreed a
short delay (about 24 hours) before asking amaze to switch.

> - Registration and room reservation
> Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the 
> people working with it need?

There was some discussion of whether SGS Veckobost??de prefer to deal
in rooms or beds for billing purposes (roughly speaking).

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
  Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work.    -- C Hacking
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html

From tom at aragne.com  Tue Mar 16 17:02:01 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Tue Mar 16 17:00:55 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] switch?
Message-ID: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and
I'll ask Amaze

Regards,
Tom.


From mwh at python.net  Wed Mar 17 07:31:12 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Wed Mar 17 07:31:16 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] switch?
In-Reply-To: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> (Tom Deprez's
	message of "Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:02:01 +0100")
References: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <2m7jxjpsdr.fsf@starship.python.net>

"Tom Deprez" <tom@aragne.com> writes:

> Hi,
>
> Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and
> I'll ask Amaze

Let's do it!

Cheers,
mwh

-- 
  Never meddle in the affairs of NT. It is slow to boot and quick to
  crash.                                             -- Stephen Harris
               -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html

From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar 17 14:08:59 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar 17 14:08:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] switch?
References: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<2m7jxjpsdr.fsf@starship.python.net>
Message-ID: <00ba01c40c53$4ffac570$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Okay, 

Request has been sent.

Regards,
Tom.

Michael Hudson wrote:
> "Tom Deprez" <tom@aragne.com> writes:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and
>> I'll ask Amaze
> 
> Let's do it!
> 
> Cheers,
> mwh

From faassen at infrae.com  Thu Mar 18 06:01:14 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Thu Mar 18 05:57:04 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] problem with switching sites
Message-ID: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com>

Hi there,

Ivo just now tried to switch (he was on #europython irc) but the new 
site turned out to be full of broken links, still pointing to places 
like this:

http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/venue

which after the switch was already broken.

Since nobody who knew much about the site was there on irc, we asked him 
to switch it back again.

Something is odd with virtual hosting, presumably. Anybody have any idea?

Regards,

Martijn

From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 18 08:57:45 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu Mar 18 08:57:49 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms.
Message-ID: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where?

Laura

From jacob at strakt.com  Thu Mar 18 09:03:30 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Thu Mar 18 09:03:50 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms.
In-Reply-To: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com>

On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote:
> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where?

The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until we 
know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc.

Jacob


From lac at strakt.com  Thu Mar 18 09:18:39 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu Mar 18 09:19:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms. 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?= <jacob@strakt.com> 
	of "Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100."
	<200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> 
References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> 
Message-ID: <200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100, Jacob Hall?n writes:
>On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote:
>> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where?
>
>The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until
> we 
>know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc.
>
>Jacob

Correct, but however we assign them, we will end up wanting to
post a schedule outside the doors.  These 'things to post schedules
on' -- do they provide them, or do we? also bulletin boards for announcements,
and the like.

Laura


From jacob at strakt.com  Thu Mar 18 09:50:49 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Thu Mar 18 09:51:09 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms.
In-Reply-To: <200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
	<200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com>
	<200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <200403181550.49451.jacob@strakt.com>

On torsdag 18 mars 2004 15.18, Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100, Jacob Hall?n writes:
> >On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote:
> >> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where?
> >
> >The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until
> > we
> >know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc.
> >
> >Jacob
>
> Correct, but however we assign them, we will end up wanting to
> post a schedule outside the doors.  These 'things to post schedules
> on' -- do they provide them, or do we? also bulletin boards for
> announcements, and the like.

There are no suitable boards or signs outside the doors. Taping schedules to 
doors and walls will work well though.

For central bulletin boards, there are several bords avaliable. Since school 
is out, there is no problem in clearing them. Also, there are movable screens 
somewhere in the building. Borrowing a few of these should not pose a problem 
either.

Jacob


From stuart.b at commonground.com.au  Thu Mar 18 22:49:06 2004
From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop)
Date: Thu Mar 18 22:49:40 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] problem with switching sites
In-Reply-To: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com>
References: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com>
Message-ID: <5ED1A9F9-7958-11D8-890A-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On 18/03/2004, at 10:01 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> Ivo just now tried to switch (he was on #europython irc) but the new 
> site turned out to be full of broken links, still pointing to places 
> like this:
>
> http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/venue
>
> which after the switch was already broken.
>
> Since nobody who knew much about the site was there on irc, we asked 
> him to switch it back again.
>
> Something is odd with virtual hosting, presumably. Anybody have any 
> idea?

Did someone use a SiteRoot, instead of something that isn't
deprecated-for-a-good-reason like VirtualHostMoster?

- --  
Stuart Bishop <stuart@stuartbishop.net>
http://www.stuartbishop.net/
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From jacob at strakt.com  Fri Mar 19 19:14:26 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Fri Mar 19 19:14:31 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] The cat is out of the bag
Message-ID: <200403200114.26239.jacob@strakt.com>

I've sent announcements to all registered people from last year, as well as to 
c.l.p and c.l.p.a. Please send copies of the announcement on the various 
mailing lists that you participate in. Zope, Plone, national mailing lists 
etc. Please mail this list saying what you have done, so we can track these 
activities.

Many thanks to the Webwerkers for all their hard work.

Jacob Hall?n


From tismer at stackless.com  Fri Mar 19 19:41:22 2004
From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer)
Date: Fri Mar 19 19:41:09 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Call for Participation
In-Reply-To: <200403192353.i2JNrdjw023655@enzo.strakt.com>
References: <200403192353.i2JNrdjw023655@enzo.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <405B9332.8070108@stackless.com>

Jacob Hall?n wrote:

...

> Important dates
> 
>     * Refereed paper proposals: 19 March - 31 March

Does this mean I still could submit a refereed paper?

I'm about to declare the Death of the Reactive Pattern. :-)

cheers -- chris

p.s.: need your input on the questions I asked in my last message
-- 
Christian Tismer             :^)   <mailto:tismer@stackless.com>
Mission Impossible 5oftware  :     Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a     :    *Starship* http://starship.python.net/
14109 Berlin                 :     PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/
work +49 30 89 09 53 34  home +49 30 802 86 56  mobile +49 173 24 18 776
PGP 0x57F3BF04       9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619  305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04
      whom do you want to sponsor today?   http://www.stackless.com/


From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar 22 10:09:37 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar 22 10:09:44 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today
Message-ID: <200403221609.38109.jacob@strakt.com>

Our next focus is making reservations operational, so this will be the focus 
of todays meeting.

Cheers

Jacob

AGENDA
A. Introductions, if any

B. Information/Decision items 

C. Progress reports

D. Urgent discussion/action items
- Registration and room reservation
Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the 
people working with it need?
How do we handle room reservations and placements in rooms.

E. Followups
- Results of going public

F. Other items 


From faassen at infrae.com  Mon Mar 22 12:43:47 2004
From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen)
Date: Mon Mar 22 12:39:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] login weirdness
Message-ID: <405F25D3.9040302@infrae.com>

Hey,

If I log in with the wrong password, I get an almost empty page with the 
text: you have reached isAnonymous

This doesn't seem right. :)

Regards,

Martijn

From andy at reportlab.com  Mon Mar 22 18:00:11 2004
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Mon Mar 22 18:00:20 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] 3 weeks to go until Python UK!
Message-ID: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHCEGCKIAA.andy@reportlab.com>


The UK Python Conference 2004 is just 3 weeks away, at
the Randolph Hotel in Oxford, April 16-17 2004 (Fri/Sat).
Come and listen to top Python experts including David Ascher,
Alex Martelli, Samuele Pedroni, Marc-Andre Lemburg, Chris
Withers, Duncan Booth, Armin Rigo and more.

   http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html


The event follows on from a 2-day Open Source Forum discussing
the key issues in the software industry, with speakers from
IBM, SuSE, MySQL, Zope (Paul Everitt), ActiveState (David Ascher)
reflecting on the state and direction of Open Source Software
and debating key issues such as software patents. Come and make
it a week!

   http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html

Python companies may be interested in our budget sponsorship package:
a stand and a 10-minute lunchtime talk on the Friday or Saturday Python
track for just ?200.  This is an ideal chance to showcase your
skills or solutions to an audience of architects and decision
makers from throughout the UK software development, or to
advertise your Python product.

   http://www.accu.org/conference/sponsorship.html


Best Regards

Andy Robinson
UK Python Conference chair


From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar 23 11:10:11 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar 23 11:10:42 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc
Message-ID: <think001_40605a946a6dc@webmail.thinkware.se>

It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some
details...

In conferences/epc2004/venue/transit_html it says:
"Getting to the tourist apartments at Utlandagatan"

In accomodation_html we write about "a block of 2 
and 4 bed rooms with SGS Veckobost?der". We also
use SGS Veckobost?der in epc2004/Attending/index_html/view

The average web site visitor might guess that these
are the tourist appartments at Utlandagatan, but I
still think it's better if we use a consistent label
for these rooms.

Perhaps it would be better to change the heading in
transit_html to
"Getting to SGS Veckobost?der at Utlandagatan"

BTW, in several places, such as
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/view
and
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/
we get pages that look different although we are in
the same place according to the navigation tree. I
assume that "epc2004/view" should show the same
page as "epc2004/", and not that strange catalog
listing (which I assume should be invisible to web
site visitors).

Finally, one misspelled word:

http://www.europython.org/society/bylaws: s/ideel f?rening/ideell f?rening



-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From magnus at thinkware.se  Tue Mar 23 11:10:15 2004
From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka)
Date: Tue Mar 23 11:10:45 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc
Message-ID: <think001_40605a946a6dc@webmail.thinkware.se>

It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some
details...

In conferences/epc2004/venue/transit_html it says:
"Getting to the tourist apartments at Utlandagatan"

In accomodation_html we write about "a block of 2 
and 4 bed rooms with SGS Veckobost?der". We also
use SGS Veckobost?der in epc2004/Attending/index_html/view

The average web site visitor might guess that these
are the tourist appartments at Utlandagatan, but I
still think it's better if we use a consistent label
for these rooms.

Perhaps it would be better to change the heading in
transit_html to
"Getting to SGS Veckobost?der at Utlandagatan"

BTW, in several places, such as
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/view
and
http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/
we get pages that look different although we are in
the same place according to the navigation tree. I
assume that "epc2004/view" should show the same
page as "epc2004/", and not that strange catalog
listing (which I assume should be invisible to web
site visitors).

Finally, one misspelled word:

http://www.europython.org/society/bylaws: s/ideel f?rening/ideell f?rening



-- 
Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB
Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN
phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65
http://www.thinkware.se/  mailto:magnus@thinkware.se

From andy at reportlab.com  Tue Mar 23 18:03:40 2004
From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson)
Date: Tue Mar 23 18:07:48 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceKit, schedules and timetables
Message-ID: <PGECLPOBGNBNKHNAGIJHCENAKIAA.andy@reportlab.com>

Hi everyone.  Congratulations on getting the site up!

I have noted the volume of work going into this,
sorry to say I have not followed the details, but it looks
really professional and impressive - and responds very fast.


As you know we did some dynamic PDF programmes the last 2 years.
We're ready to do the same again, but it will be a bit different
this time:  there is a standardized 'ConferenceKit' solution
available now, which will let the EuroPython organisers log in,
upload covers, templates and stuff like that, and design and preview
the documents.  We can also generate timetables in all shapes
and sizes ready for printing.  And if EuroPython wants any
other kinds of documents (how about a preview-your-own-badge
wizard?), we'd be happy to try and help with that too.

To make it work an upload script will be needed to push
speakers, tracks and talks from the EuroPython site into
a fairly simple remote MySQL database for each event.  

We are rather busy getting this ready for Python UK (April 14-17)
and XML Europe / Seybold (Amsterdam, April 18-21).  After that
it will be better documented and tested and we should have plenty
of time to help set up any printed documents needed for the event.

For now I just wanted to say it will definitely be available, and 
far better than before!

Best Regards,


Andy Robinson
CEO/Chief Architect
ReportLab Europe Ltd.
mobile +44-7976-355742
office +44-20-8544-8049
 

From sasha at systemvaruhuset.com  Thu Mar 25 03:52:47 2004
From: sasha at systemvaruhuset.com (Sasha Vincic)
Date: Thu Mar 25 03:52:52 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] http://europython.org/ generates error
In-Reply-To: <4031CE18.5020605@ita.chalmers.se>
References: <2mvfm6282u.fsf@starship.python.net>
	<4031CE18.5020605@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <1080204767.1798.15.camel@silent>

A little note; http://europython.org/ generates an error, should
redirect to www.europython.org

/Sasha


From hqduqukf at cebinet.com.br  Sun Mar 28 05:21:39 2004
From: hqduqukf at cebinet.com.br (Ashlee Britt)
Date: Sun Mar 28 06:03:20 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Proven Google AdWord writing styles that will generate
	clicks and money 
Message-ID: <PCDZGVJKLVINFMKHUCJWACZ@emt.ee>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040328/79bdcd9e/attachment.html
From ghum at gmx.net  Sun Mar 28 07:54:46 2004
From: ghum at gmx.net (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: Sun Mar 28 07:44:20 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Advertisments for Europython
Message-ID: <001b01c414c3$d9c04050$642aa8c0@tog2>

I'm reading the German business magazin "brand eins"

on page 48 of the current volume there is an advertisment of google, they are promoting their adwords.

Included is a virtual voucher of 50 Euro - I would like to "donate" it to Europython. Can we use these? Shall we get googlers to go to www.europython.org?

Harald
-------------- next part --------------
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From virusalert at salaction.de  Sun Mar 28 16:34:22 2004
From: virusalert at salaction.de (virusalert@salaction.de)
Date: Sun Mar 28 16:34:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Virus Alert
Message-ID: <200403282134.i2SLYMb25735@mail.salaction.de>

The mail message (file: abuse_list.pif) you sent to iris.weissen@salaction.de contains a virus. (on mail.salaction.de)

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Mon Mar 29 03:31:52 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Mon Mar 29 03:32:03 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting
Message-ID: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se>

Hi, I can?t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and 
thrupught the evening.

What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch...

/Dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From bea at webwitches.com  Mon Mar 29 04:26:44 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Mon Mar 29 04:26:00 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting
In-Reply-To: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se>
References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <1080552403.31702.7.camel@ogg>

On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 10:31, Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote:
> Hi, I can?t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and 
> thrupught the evening.
> 
> What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch...

Same here, I'm afraid. Invitation to a 40th birthday from the early
evening on. If there is anything I can contribute before that, let me
know. If not, I am available tomorrow afternoon...

I'll eat some cake in your honour!

Regards

bea

-- 
bea@webwitches.com
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 04:29:53 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar 29 04:30:01 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting 
In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=
	<dario@ita.chalmers.se> of "Mon,
	29 Mar 2004 10:31:52 +0200." <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> 
References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> 
Message-ID: <200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:31:52 +0200, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes:
>Hi, I can=E4t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and=2
>0
>thrupught the evening.
>
>What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch...
>
>/Dario

Jacob and I just got back from PyCon last night.  So we are jetlagged.
I just got up now, and Jacob is still asleep.  I wanted to spend the meeting
on the hotel reservation system, and getting the sponsorship logos on
the front page, plus whatever else needs doing.

Laura


From bea at webwitches.com  Mon Mar 29 04:36:04 2004
From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine)
Date: Mon Mar 29 04:36:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting
In-Reply-To: <200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se>
	<200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <1080552963.31702.14.camel@ogg>

On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 11:29, Laura Creighton wrote:

[snip]

> Jacob and I just got back from PyCon last night.  So we are jetlagged.
> I just got up now, and Jacob is still asleep.  I wanted to spend the meeting
> on the hotel reservation system, and getting the sponsorship logos on
> the front page, plus whatever else needs doing.

Hotel: We had a talk about that last week, mainly about how to bill room
sharers separately for business purposes.
Logo: In sent ours to Tom last week. I hope he got all the ones
necessary.
Whatever else: throw stuff my way as needed. I will scream if you're
throwing too hard.

Welcome back in Europe. Hope the conference was great!

bea


-- 
"My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me.
B?atrice Fontaine
Fabriksgatan 7 - SE- 96131 Boden
Tel + 46 921 150 45 - GSM + 46 70 640 2773
E-mail : bea@webwitches.com - URL: www.webwitches.com


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 07:44:31 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar 29 07:44:35 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] wanted wiki pages
Message-ID: <200403291244.i2TCiV77024834@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

I want 3 wiki pages accessible from www.europython.org.
One to add your name to a Sprint List, to talk about Sprints.
One to add your lightning talk.
One to add your BOF session.

Pycon http://www.pycon.org/ had a Sprint page 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SprintPlan2004
that was active before PyCon.

We can steal the relevant info.

Pycon lightning talks were not set up in advance.  This was a problem.
People missed hearing things they were interested in.  So I want a page
like that ....  unless Anna who is organising this, I think, minds.

BOFs also were planned in an ad-hoc fashion.  I think that more BOFs
will be added on site, but I want people who already know they want one
to get in on the scheduling.

Laura


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 09:20:08 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar 29 09:20:46 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] My (old) interview on
	http://www.europython.org/interviews/laura_creighton/view
Message-ID: <200403291420.i2TEK8CH025090@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>


In it Jacob Hallén 's name is misspelled Jacob Hallì

can somebody change that, please?

Laura

From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 12:06:27 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar 29 12:06:50 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] testing registration
Message-ID: <200403291706.i2TH6Rik025523@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

1. I would like all the forms to fit on one page.  I hate this 'step 1,
step 2, step 3' where your information vanishes trick.
2. can we get medium tshirts
3.  SWIFT is misspelled.
4. There is no point in asking people what type of registration.
   If it is before the early bird, they should get this, and if it is
   too late, they should not.  They need to select if they are a
   speaker, but this means for the refereed track only, right, not
   for giving a talk?  So this selection is ambiguous.  We need
   to describe, in a paragraph:

  what is a student

and
 
  what is a speaker

and then let them click a checkbox saying what they are.

The 'you entered the following data' shows that it is indeed possible
to fit in pne page, but there is way too much whitespace and its should
be formatted to fit in one page without scrolling by making some fields side
by side.

Why are we collecting all this personal information?  It should
be optional, I think.

Let people get their registration id MAILED to them.

We need a chatty yap about WorldPay -- or a link to one of their
yaps -- to show that this is a secure way to pay.  I don't know
the first thing about them -- I assume we are using them for a
good reason, but it reassures me to know something about them.

I want new fields.

a) are you a vegetarian
b) have you any food allergies
c) do you have limited mobility
d) is there anything else we need to know to make your stay at our
   conference a more pleasant one.

Now, after all of this they should be referred to the Sprint Page,
to sign up for Sprints, and the Food Page, to talk in great detail
about food if they want -- so we need a food page -- and the
accomodation page, so they can reserve a room.  The closing of
registering should thank them for registering for EP, and give
them these links to choose from.

Laura

From jjl at pobox.com  Mon Mar 29 12:13:36 2004
From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee)
Date: Mon Mar 29 12:12:37 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] ANN: Python UK Conference, 16th - 17th April 2004
Message-ID: <Pine.WNT.4.58.0403291755530.408@vernon>

The Python UK conference is taking place on Friday and Saturday 16th
and 17th of April, as part of the ACCU Spring Conference at the
Randolph Hotel in the centre of Oxford.  The impressive list of
speakers includes David Ascher, Alex Martelli, Armin Rigo of Psyco and
PyPy fame, Duncan Booth, Chris Withers, and core CPython and Jython
developers Michael Hudson and Samuele Pedroni.  The Python conference
follows a 2-day Open Source event with well-known open-source leader
and Pythonista Eric Raymond, co-founder of Zope corp Paul Everitt, and
a host of other interesting speakers.

http://www.accu.org/conference/

http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html

http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html


Though all the official speakers are invited, there will be
considerable space during breaks and after hours for Python
mini-talks, Birds of a Feather meetings and sprints (possibly
including a PyPy sprint).

There are also very reasonable sponsorship options (starting from 200
for a lunchtime stand and talk) for Python companies wishing to
promote themselves; see the 'sponsorship' page of the site for
details.


John

From jacob at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 13:22:53 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Mon Mar 29 13:22:59 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] For adding to the website
Message-ID: <200403292022.53882.jacob@strakt.com>

Taxis
=====

Taxis in Sweden are not price regulated, and there are a few ways that
visitors can get into trouble. Mostly because they get an astronomic
bill at the end of the journey.

A few rules to avoid this:

1. All licensed taxis have yellow number plates. Never buy a ride with
someone who doesn't. They are illegal taxis, and people do get in bad
trouble riding them from time to time.

2. Some of the licensed taxis have very high fares. You avoid those by
only using "Taxi G?teborg" and "Taxis Kurir". These are the largest taxi
chains, with a reputation to protect, so you can trust them to deal with
you fairly.

3. In town, always run on the meter. 

4. For airport transfer, ask for "fast pris". This means "fixed price".
It should be around SEK 370 for going to/from Landvetter.

Taxis in general are expensive and mostly unnecessary. Public transit will
take you just about anywhere, just a tad slower.


From lac at strakt.com  Mon Mar 29 16:11:52 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Mon Mar 29 16:12:02 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] dates on europython site are in YYY-MM-DD numberical
	format.
Message-ID: <200403292111.i2TLBquU026202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

But Americans are coming.  So we had better change that to spell out
the month, else they will get confused.

Laura

From tom at aragne.com  Mon Mar 29 16:32:27 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Mon Mar 29 16:32:34 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] My (old) interview
	onhttp://www.europython.org/interviews/laura_creighton/view
References: <200403291420.i2TEK8CH025090@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <023c01c415d5$8fab6bd0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

should be fixed now.

Laura Creighton wrote:
> In it Jacob Hall?n 's name is misspelled Jacob Hall?
>
> can somebody change that, please?
>
> Laura
>
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


From tom at aragne.com  Mon Mar 29 17:08:57 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Mon Mar 29 17:07:28 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] plone: table
Message-ID: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Hi,

How can I remove the green border around a table in plone? I tried
several css attributes, but to no avail.

Thanks,
T.


From rev_anna_r at yahoo.com  Mon Mar 29 20:41:47 2004
From: rev_anna_r at yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft)
Date: Mon Mar 29 20:41:51 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] wanted wiki pages
In-Reply-To: <200403291244.i2TCiV77024834@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <20040330014147.15492.qmail@web60409.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Laura Creighton <lac@strakt.com> wrote:
> I want 3 wiki pages accessible from www.europython.org.
> One to add your name to a Sprint List, to talk about Sprints.
> One to add your lightning talk.
> One to add your BOF session.
> 
> Pycon http://www.pycon.org/ had a Sprint page 
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SprintPlan2004
> that was active before PyCon.
> 
> We can steal the relevant info.

> Pycon lightning talks were not set up in advance.  This was a
> problem.
> People missed hearing things they were interested in. 

Yep - I kinda sorta volunteered to fix that for them for next year -
assuming I get to attend next year... 

> So I want a
> page
> like that ....  unless Anna who is organising this, I think, minds.

Anna would be delighted. I am busy playing tourist in DC with my kids
right now... but go ahead and setup a wiki and I'll go check it out... 

But keep in mind, I'm hoping that folks can submit a lightning talk on
the normal "submit talks" page... so we can track them. (I had
requested that previously...)

BTW - is there anywhere we can find the talks that were uploaded for
last year? Are those gone into the ether or are they saved on some old
variant of the website somewhere?

Anna

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Tue Mar 30 01:58:00 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Tue Mar 30 01:58:10 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site +
	changes
Message-ID: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se>

Hello,

1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site - I 
do not understand it :-)

2) Changes to the organisation of sponsor images.

3) Changes in caching


First, I would like to know how the VirtualHosting setup is done with 
the site.

the EPC2002 and 2003 refer to fodlers that do not exist in the root of 
the www.eurpython.org site.

The same goes for many images that refer to an /images folder not 
present in the root of www.europython.org. This makes it hard to manage 
images, etc.

Second, I am moving all the images from the root of www.europython.org 
to /conferences/epc2004/sponsors/logos/. This keeps things neat and tidy 
and keeps the root non-cluttered.

Thirdly, I have changed some of the caching parameters... this means 
that the site will be slower, but on the other hand it will display 
correct info.

Up to know I cached things like the login page, the folder_contents ZPT 
and other similar things, which simply lead to probolems for people 
using the site, especially for managers.

If you encounter more stuff that seems "weird and/or broken" please let 
me know and I'll try to see if it is related to caching... any expert in 
Zope caching out there is welcome to help - I am by no means an expert.

Cheers,

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From gotcha at bubblenet.be  Tue Mar 30 04:43:49 2004
From: gotcha at bubblenet.be (Godefroid Chapelle)
Date: Tue Mar 30 04:40:54 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] plone: table
In-Reply-To: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <40694155.5060602@bubblenet.be>

Tom Deprez wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> How can I remove the green border around a table in plone? I tried
> several css attributes, but to no avail.

To find out which css attributes are set on which html tag, use Mozilla 
dom inspector (found under tools, web development menu).

You can select any html node, or in the dom tree, or by clicking the 
graphical element in the page itself.

After that, you get a chance to select CSS style rules in the right 
panel. This way, you can see which css rule apply to the node and get an 
easy way to know where to change it. You even can edit it in memory to 
check if you use the right setting !

Better learn how to fish than getting a fish for free ;-)
> 
> Thanks,
> T.
> 


-- 
Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha)                http://bubblenet.be


From mwh at python.net  Mon Mar 29 11:41:50 2004
From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson)
Date: Tue Mar 30 05:11:06 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc
In-Reply-To: <think001_40605a946a6dc@webmail.thinkware.se> (Magnus Lycka's
	message of "Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:10:11 +0100")
References: <think001_40605a946a6dc@webmail.thinkware.se>
Message-ID: <2m1xnbli5t.fsf@starship.python.net>

Magnus Lycka <magnus@thinkware.se> writes:

> It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some details...

If you tell me your username I'll give you the privs to fix these
yourself :-)

Cheers,
mwh
(how's that for a threat? <wink>)

-- 
  #ifndef P_tmpdir
  printf( "Go buy a better computer" );
  exit( ETHESKYISFALLINGANDIWANTMYMAMA );
                         -- Dimitri Maziuk on writing secure code, asr

From ivo at amaze.nl  Tue Mar 30 05:43:19 2004
From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk)
Date: Tue Mar 30 05:52:17 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site
	+	changes
In-Reply-To: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se>
References: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <40694F47.7070808@amaze.nl>

Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> 1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site - I 
> do not understand it :-)
> 

 From a hosting perspective, requests for (www.)europython.org are mapped 
directly to the root of the Zope instance. The VHM there takes care of rewriting 
requests to the correct folders.

I know nothing about images configuations.

Cheers

	Ivo



-- 
Drs. I.R. van der Wijk                                      -=-
Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12                     Amaze Internet Services V.O.F.
1017 RC Amsterdam, NL                                       -=-
T +31-20-4688336         F +31-20-4688337       Zope/Plone/Content Management
W http://www.amaze.nl    E info@amaze.nl           Open Source Solutions
W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl                 Consultancy
PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp

From jacob at strakt.com  Tue Mar 30 09:57:26 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=)
Date: Tue Mar 30 10:00:39 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation reservation design
Message-ID: <200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com>

Here is my design idea for how to make reservations for rooms. I am assuming 
we have personal details for whoever is making the reservation. While there 
are probably more service minded approaches to the problem, this one has the 
advantage that it is simple and only gives a limited number of choices.

The most common case outside of what we cover will probably be people who want 
to stay an extra night after the conference. We have to check with SGS 
Veckobost?der if they have the room available in any case, so this will have 
to be handled manually no matter what.

Jacob
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From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar 30 10:15:04 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar 30 10:15:11 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation reservation design 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:57:26 +0200."
	<200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com> 
References: <200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com> 
Message-ID: <200403301515.i2UFF4T8029400@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

I suggest we make the wiki before we get teh reservations.  We want
people to self-organise into groups of 2 or 4.

We need to make it clear that the person who is booking the reservation
a) is responsible for the whole bill
b) can rent a whole room and not share it, or share it with non-conference
   family members -- just sign up for all the beds, and pay extra.
c) if you arrange to share a room with some people, and they don't show
   or don't pay you, we aren't responsible.

Laura

From jacob at strakt.com  Tue Mar 30 10:32:06 2004
From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n?=)
Date: Tue Mar 30 10:32:13 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython
Message-ID: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com>

Name of the account holder:  Europython Society

Address:              c/o AB Strakt
                      Norra ?gatan 10
                      SE-416 64 G?teborg
                      Sweden

Name of the Bank:     SWEDBANK  (a.k.a. F?reningssparbanken)

Address:              Box 6046
                      400 60 G?teborg
                      Sweden
 
BIC (SWIFT) code:     SWEDESS

Bank Clearing Number: 8105-9 
Account Number:       037 676 534-3  (non-Swedish residents)
                      983 415 181-4  (Swedish residents)

I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have 
that information in a day or two.

Jacob


From lac at strakt.com  Tue Mar 30 10:38:53 2004
From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue Mar 30 10:39:26 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n?= <jacob@strakt.com> 
	of "Tue,
	30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200." <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> 
References: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> 
Message-ID: <200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>

In a message of Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200, Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n
?= writes:
>Name of the account holder:  Europython Society
>
>Address:              c/o AB Strakt
>                      Norra ?gatan 10
>                      SE-416 64 G?teborg
>                      Sweden
>
>Name of the Bank:     SWEDBANK  (a.k.a. F?reningssparbanken)
>
>Address:              Box 6046
>                      400 60 G?teborg
>                      Sweden
>=20
>BIC (SWIFT) code:     SWEDESS
>
>Bank Clearing Number: 8105-9=20
>Account Number:       037 676 534-3  (non-Swedish residents)
>                      983 415 181-4  (Swedish residents)
>
>I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have
>that information in a day or two.
>
>Jacob

If you are in Europe, the fee should be 0.  New law.

Laura

From dario at ita.chalmers.se  Wed Mar 31 03:15:02 2004
From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=)
Date: Wed Mar 31 03:15:17 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython
In-Reply-To: <200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
References: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com>
	<200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com>
Message-ID: <406A7E06.9000803@ita.chalmers.se>

Laura Creighton wrote:
> In a message of Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200, Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n
> ?= writes:
>>I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have
>>that information in a day or two.
>>
>>Jacob
> 
> If you are in Europe, the fee should be 0.  New law.
> 

Nevertheless most banks charge anythin from 0.25 euros up to 1 euro for 
EU payments.

There seems to be no consistent info on SWEDBANKS website on what the 
charges are. This needs to be looked up specifically.

/dario

-- 
-- -------------------------------------------------------------------
Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech.

From cristian.lucchesi at iit.cnr.it  Wed Mar 31 12:03:00 2004
From: cristian.lucchesi at iit.cnr.it (Cristian Lucchesi)
Date: Wed Mar 31 12:03:16 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Refereed paper submission
Message-ID: <1080752580.27633.48.camel@lucchesi.iit.cnr.it>

Hi,
Europython.org is not available at 18.40, we have to submit a refereed
paper so we have think to send the abstract here:

Author: Marco Andreini, Cristian Lucchesi, Maurizio Martinelli, Giuseppe
Vasarelli of Institute for Informatics and Telematics (IIT), Italian
National Research Council (CNR).

Abstract:
The amount of paper documents that need to be digitized is huge. It is
useful to have a system to capture and query them on line in a simple
way.

In this paper we present an acquisition and information retrivial system
based on Zope/Plone, that allows a quick definition of costumized data
type and an easy management of the storage of digitized documents.

Using the Archetypes extension, it is possible to obtain the relevant
interfaces and dynamic validations that allow multiple users to input
such documents in a simple and quick way. In addition, the python
client, which has been designed to work on HTTP/HTTPS, automatizes the
acquisition phases and the delivery of the data to the server.

Making the storage of data independent from the ZODB (the limit of which
is hightlighted by our benchmarks) and making it be dependent just on
the transactional filesystems and on the Postgresql DBMS, it is possible
to support a good scalability even for millions of documents and for
hundreds of GigaBytes of images.

The architecture is fully compliant with web standards and with its
design principles.

The approach of this paper is applied to a case study regarding the
acquisition and the queries of millions of paper documents belonging to
the Italian Registration Authoriy for Internet Domain Names.

Best regards,
Cristian



From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar 31 11:57:32 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar 31 12:04:04 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site
	+changes
References: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <00ea01c41742$5fbc68c0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote:
> Hello,
>
> 1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site
> - I do not understand it :-)
>
> 2) Changes to the organisation of sponsor images.
>
> 3) Changes in caching
>
>
> First, I would like to know how the VirtualHosting setup is done with
> the site.

Don't know, haven't set it up this way.

> the EPC2002 and 2003 refer to fodlers that do not exist in the root of
> the www.eurpython.org site.

They DO or at least did exist (lastly checked on monday)...
These folders are needed because they are the old europython websites
and should stay..

> The same goes for many images that refer to an /images folder not
> present in the root of www.europython.org. This makes it hard to
> manage images, etc.
>
> Second, I am moving all the images from the root of www.europython.org
> to /conferences/epc2004/sponsors/logos/. This keeps things neat and
> tidy and keeps the root non-cluttered.

DON'T move this.... I've let them inside because the epc2002 and epc2003
use them....

>
> Thirdly, I have changed some of the caching parameters... this means
> that the site will be slower, but on the other hand it will display
> correct info.
>
> Up to know I cached things like the login page, the folder_contents
> ZPT and other similar things, which simply lead to probolems for
> people using the site, especially for managers.
>
> If you encounter more stuff that seems "weird and/or broken" please
> let me know and I'll try to see if it is related to caching... any
> expert in Zope caching out there is welcome to help - I am by no
> means an expert.
>
> Cheers,
>
> /dario


From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar 31 11:58:46 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar 31 12:04:07 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website
Message-ID: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down.

T.

From ivo at amaze.nl  Wed Mar 31 13:14:39 2004
From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk)
Date: Wed Mar 31 13:13:58 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website
In-Reply-To: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
References: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
Message-ID: <406B0A8F.1030400@amaze.nl>

Tom Deprez wrote:
> Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down.
> 

The instance was running but not responding. If you have shellaccess, you can 
zopectl restart it (which I have done now)

Cheers

	Ivo

> T.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython@python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


-- 
Drs. I.R. van der Wijk                                      -=-
Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12                     Amaze Internet Services V.O.F.
1017 RC Amsterdam, NL                                       -=-
T +31-20-4688336         F +31-20-4688337       Zope/Plone/Content Management
W http://www.amaze.nl    E info@amaze.nl           Open Source Solutions
W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl                 Consultancy
PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp

From tom at aragne.com  Wed Mar 31 13:32:01 2004
From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez)
Date: Wed Mar 31 13:38:25 2004
Subject: [EuroPython] website
References: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>
	<406B0A8F.1030400@amaze.nl>
Message-ID: <012a01c4174f$915860c0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter>

Thanks for the tip and the help.

Regards,
Tom.

Ivo van der Wijk wrote:
> Tom Deprez wrote:
>> Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down.
>> 
> 
> The instance was running but not responding. If you have shellaccess,
> you can zopectl restart it (which I have done now)
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Ivo
> 
>> T.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> EuroPython mailing list
>> EuroPython@python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython