From magnus at thinkware.se Mon Mar 1 04:35:18 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Mon Mar 1 04:35:28 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBBY2NvbW9kYXRpb24gcHJpY2VzIA==?= Message-ID: Laura Creighton wrote: > The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready. When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they will have space there, or need to look at another place. Since this is mainly 2- and 4-bed rooms, I was also wondering how things work with prices for a non-full room. Do you have to rent a full room, or can you expect an unknown room mate if you just book one bed or what? > We got an even better rate than listed on their website For the teddybears as well? ;) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 1 08:22:58 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 1 08:23:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today Message-ID: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> The meeting is today at 18.00 CET on the #europython channel att the freenode IRC network. I planned for this meeting to be different. Since we are behind schedule with getting the website up and getting the promotion materials sent, I'd like to make most of this meeting a working party to get things finished. However, there are some issues to start with: AGENDA A. Introductions, if any B. Information/Decision items After surprisingly strong response to the tutorials questionaire, I think the only reasonable decision is that we should have tutorials, and that they should be during the conference at no extra cost. We should have a basic Python tutorial and a number of others. We have lots of volunteers for lots of interesting subjects. C. Progress reports - Food (Laura) - Keynote speakers (Jacob) D. Urgent discussion/action items Release of EP information. E. Followups F. Other items From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 1 08:57:40 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 1 08:57:51 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?= of "Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:22:58 +0100." <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> >C. Progress reports >- Food (Laura) >- Keynote speakers (Jacob) > >D. Urgent discussion/action items >Release of EP information. > >E. Followups > >F. Other items I want to add 't-shirts' here, because I told Vincent Mahon I would show people his new design for a tshirt, which I like. Laura From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 1 09:18:09 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 1 09:18:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton of "Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:57:40 +0100." <200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> <200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Mon, 01 Mar 2004 14:57:40 +0100, Laura Creighton writes: >>C. Progress reports >>- Food (Laura) >>- Keynote speakers (Jacob) >> >>D. Urgent discussion/action items >>Release of EP information. >> >>E. Followups >> >>F. Other items > >I want to add 't-shirts' here, because I told Vincent Mahon I would >show people his new design for a tshirt, which I like. > >Laura I forgot. Is there a way to stick a JPEG on a wiki? Laura From steve at z3u.com Mon Mar 1 09:27:15 2004 From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander) Date: Mon Mar 1 09:27:41 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for the meeting today In-Reply-To: <200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403011422.58163.jacob@strakt.com> <200403011357.i21DveWw018344@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200403011418.i21EI9Gb018480@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20040301142715.GH15280@fridge.pov.lt> > I forgot. Is there a way to stick a JPEG on a wiki? I think you can just use an tag, like in HTML. I have sent you a username and password to upload images. -- Steve Alexander From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 1 16:19:15 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 1 17:01:28 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings Message-ID: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions about how this Plone thingie works: 1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site? 2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site? 3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant. 4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying "Register here", we have failed badly. 5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. This event should only cover 1 May. 6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC 2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site? Jacob From bea at webwitches.com Tue Mar 2 01:31:46 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Tue Mar 2 01:29:43 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <1078209106.4236.12.camel@ogg> On Mon, 2004-03-01 at 22:19, Jacob Hall?n wrote: > Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions > about how this Plone thingie works: > > 1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site > wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site? That can be taken away without any problem if that is wanted (I agree with it but not every one may...) > > 2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site? Yes and no. The navigation is there for that, but the tabs at the top can be made for things you want a direct link for. They are put in my an admin, most probably Dario or me, currently. > 3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both > the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant. Because they currently are. The left navigation shows the folders. The top tabs show what you (ie we) tell them to. > 4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers > and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't > register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying > "Register here", we have failed badly. Joachim said that the paper submission requires that one registers first. That can be changed, but it would put a lot of safety in question. He had to leave yesterday at some stage, but no one else reacted when he and I discussed it. So we should talk about this now. > 5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days > when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we > have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. > This event should only cover 1 May. We had nothing else yet and these were tests Dario and I made to test the input results. You are correct, they should only set the final day. > 6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC > 2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site? That is an excellent question. I think that all the folders with 2004 info should be available at the root of the navigation, but then a discussion began about why the folders had been set like this, meaning for reusability of the site in the future. I put A-Z there because it was the only spontaneous thought I had on how to move the folder with the current conference to the top. It is still silly, I agree. All the info inside it should be seen first and at the top. It is all the general info at the bottom that makes it confusing, because you don't know if you should click on "about 2004" or "about "ep". I wanted to move all the rest of the information into folders like "general" and "past" so that people can see 2004 as the obvious choice, but I was overruled :) As a first step, we can make top tabs to point to the obvious directions you want people to take, e.g. accommodation, but also others. How does that sound? bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 02:25:38 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 02:25:57 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> Jacob Hall?n wrote: > Now that the website starts to fill with information, I have some questions > about how this Plone thingie works: > > 1. I find the "About" and "Log in" boxes to be stuff that visitors to the site > wouldn't wnat to see. Will they be gone from the production site? yes, it is a standard Plone thngie, that we just haven't removed yet. > 2. Is the "Navigation" box the way people are supposed to navigate the site? Yes and no. The Navigation box will show the puslished folder structured to the user, but it wont show the individual pages. This is a setting that can be changed, however (imo) it would be preferable that the main page of each folder was used to link to the rest of the pages. For instance: http://plone.org/documentation/ the nav box here only shows the folders that are available under documentation. These folders are the "main areas" of the /documentation folder strutcture. The main page (the 'index_html' page) of the /documentation folder, however, has links ti the individual documents. > 3. What defines what stuff gets added to the tabs along the top? Having both > the Navigation box and the tabs at the top seems to be redundant. This is defined on a portal level. The tabs may, for instance, correspond to the root level folder structure, i.e. if it is decided that the portal should not use the Nvigation box, the the tabs can be used to provide links to the "main sections" of the portal. The tabs are also usefull to provide a link to "meta-parts" of the portal. For instance the 'news' tab will always work even if there is no 'news' folder. It simply points to a template that displays all available news. The same can be done for other things, ie talks, papers, interviews, etc. > 4. Somebody said that people will have to make an account to register papers > and register for the conference. I hope this is not true. If you can't > register by just filling in a simple form that is at the end of a link saying > "Register here", we have failed badly. Can you elaborate? What is wrong with registering to the conference in general? I.e. by registering to the site you register to the conference, either as submitter or participant. This is not a bad thing imo - it al depends on what semnatics we attach to the act of registering. Also, there is an important distinction that we have not made clear yet - were to draw the line between the EuroPython Society (EPS) and the EuroPython Conference (EPC), arraangeed by the EPS. The site is constructed as being the EPS site, with the most important and prominent feature of it being the current EPC. So som of the discussed features spring from this distinction, for instance registering. Note however that the registering form may be as simple or as complicated as we wish. To get back to your question, do we have reason to believe that people whose paper is not accepted won?t be coming at all to the conference? > 5. I think we are using the event calendar in a bad way. We should mark days > when specific things happen, instead of marking off periods. Right now, we > have the event " EarlyBird Registration Ends!" set up for 1 April - 1 May. > This event should only cover 1 May. Uh? That is not what i see here and not the way we set it up... ah, i see. this is a bug in the display code for the Plone calendar. The event is in fact 0 (zero) minutes long but the (stupid) calendar displays it as a month long event. We are looking into it, but for the tie being pelase make such milestone-kind of events exatly one minute long, for display reasons. > 6. Are visitors expected to understand that they need to open the "A-Z EPC > 2004" box in the Navigation box in order to find the contents of the site? Well, yes. We had a lengthy discussion on this on irc a couple of weeks ago. I ****REALLY*** would like to point out the fact that *EVERYBODY* was suppopsed to have come back to us with feedback and observations like "should it really look this/that way" for the past 3 weeks. Not now, but, like, last week at the latest. Now, the focus should of course be to makig things better, so we are open to any alternative suggestions that may arise. However, merely asking whether something should look like that or not without a couterproposal will get very few things done. The way it was setup up previously was like this: EPC 2004 at the top, it being a symlink to /conferences/epc2004 however, since it opened up the navigation box in the bottom half, it was deemed to be unusually hard for visitors to understand, thus it was changed to be the way it is now. It is not the best solution but the best so far. Any opinions on alternative ways of doing this, please give them *NOW* so that we have a chance to change it. > Jacob Apologies for the somewhat harsh tone of this mail, it is not directed at you personally, but to the list in general - it is bad style to ignore bea's pleas for feedback during three weeks and then, when everybody suddenly realises that "shit, we need to have the website online yesterday" all kinds of opinions, some not so nicely presented, come flying by. But, like I said - focus is on getting a great website, so keep those questions and suggestions coming. /dario From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 02:28:56 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 02:29:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more Message-ID: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se> hello, I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the following two things fixed. 1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with plone 2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at monday (a 1 char change in the product code) 3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with reStrecturedText. Ok, so that was three things :-) Cheese, /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From francesco at reflab.it Tue Mar 2 04:39:59 2004 From: francesco at reflab.it (Francesco Ciriaci) Date: Tue Mar 2 04:40:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Tutorials questionaire In-Reply-To: <200402231937.i1NJbpVM018877@enzo.strakt.com> References: <200402231937.i1NJbpVM018877@enzo.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403021040.17982.francesco@reflab.it> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi! > 1. Are you likely to attend Europython? > > Yes/No/Only if there are tutorials I'd like to go to. Yes. > 2. What topics would you be interested in? How much would you be ready > to pay for such a tutorial? Topics: Workflow, Content Management, Zope Business I don't think I would pay more than 15 euros for a tutorial > 3. When would it be most suitable for you to participate in a tutorial? > Please rank the alternatives. > a. Friday 4 June > b. Saturday 5 June > c. Sunday 6 June > d. During the conference > e. When it doesn't conflict with my Sprint > f. Thursday 10 June e. > 4. Would you be willing to give a tutorial? On what subject(s)? Yes. I'like to present CMF/Plone new paradigm for Content Managed web applications (how many applications should are made of contents?) > 5. Is there any other input you would like to give us? Very important for me: give some space/time/attractiviness also to business around Python/Zope/Plone. The very bad of last EPC was lack of "business side of the Zope". > More information about Europython 2004 will be available shortly at > http://www.europython.org. Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to? thanks. .francesco ciriaci - -- Francesco Ciriaci - REFLAB Cell. +39 333 4284675 www.reflab.com www.reflab.org -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFARFaBmyOLE5g6uZ0RAqDcAKCZqG7ZayLkoC8Z1sLv6FUrHdKdGQCdHACL zvi0mQf17o99t3pCYeZW5wI= =7mqK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From js at aixtraware.de Tue Mar 2 05:59:50 2004 From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Tue Mar 2 04:59:38 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> Hi, Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35: > Laura Creighton wrote: > >>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready. > > > When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people > are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's > good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they > will have space there, or need to look at another place. I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far: 1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the conference first. 2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you. 3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have registered for the conference before. 4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and secure way. That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome. -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en Joachim Schmitz ...................................................................... AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 05:52:09 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 05:52:43 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:25:38 +0100." <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> The level of resentment I experience when I have to make a password to do something I want is so intense that I often decide it's not worth it. In the case of conferences, it means that I either won't go or just show up. I don't know how many people resent passwords as much as I do; many people do not care because they save them all on their laptops, and figure if they lose their laptop, their life is over anyway, so :-) We have several things we want people to be able to do: indicate that they are coming indicate food allergies & vegetarian status pay for the conference sign up for a sprint sign up for a tutorial submit a tutorial submit a talk submit a referred paper pay for the conference reserve rooms through us at SGS bost?der -- also for their families and other significant people they are bringing Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_. I don't want them to have to log in in addition to all of the above. That is just irritating. Logins, in my opinion, are for people who want to participate in the creation of the website, not for people who just want to use the thing.. Laura From bea at webwitches.com Tue Mar 2 06:23:01 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Tue Mar 2 06:19:37 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices In-Reply-To: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> References: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <1078226581.2320.13.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 11:59, Joachim Schmitz wrote: > Hi, > > Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35: > > Laura Creighton wrote: > > > >>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready. > > > > > > When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people > > are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's > > good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they > > will have space there, or need to look at another place. > I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to > handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far: > > 1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the > conference first. > > 2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed > in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you. > > 3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do > the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of > the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have > registered for the conference before. > > 4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people > can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we > can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and > secure way. > > > That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly > easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome. As far as I am concerned, you thought of all eventualities. I suppose that of people have a preference on how to share rooms they should take it upon themselves to also clear the payment, don't you think? so yes, I think you're fine. regards bea -- "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-++-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ B?atrice Fontaine Fabriksgatan 7 - SE 96131 Boden Tel +46 921 15045 GSM +46 70 640 2773 From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 06:55:02 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 06:55:17 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices In-Reply-To: Message from Joachim Schmitz of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100." <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> References: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <200403021155.i22Bt2eB021302@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes: >Hi, > >Magnus Lycka said the following on 03/01/04 10:35: >> Laura Creighton wrote: >> >>>The website to coordinate this [SGS Veckobost?der] isn't quite ready. >> >> >> When do you expect this to be on-line? It seems some people >> are starting to plan their trip in detail now, and it's >> good for attendees to know as soon as possible whether they >> will have space there, or need to look at another place. >I am working on the registration process, and need som ideas how to >handle this room registration. Here are my ideas so far: > >1. to reserve a place in SGS Veckobost?der, one has to register for the >conference first. ok, as long as people can register for other people (family members) who aren't attending the conference. > >2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed >in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you. This is intolerably heterosexual-centric. Also heterosexual couples will want to stay together, even if they want 2 rooms out of a 4. Moreover, there are people coming to EuroPython who actively dislike one another. Murphy's Law says that we will maximise assignments so that they will all end up sharing with each other. :-( I'd rather a webpage with a list of people who _want a room in a 4_ and _want a room in a 2_, and _which nights I want to be there_ with space for a short description, that could be left blank. The rooms are non-smoking, but it probably makes sense to house smokers with smokers, because when the have to go out and smoke, they would like company, and so they won't awaken non-smokers. People who write 'party animal' and people who write 'quiet, early sleeper' probably do not want to share a room. >3. if one wants to book a full 2-bed or 4-bed room, one person has to do >the booking and payment, and he/she has to give the email-addresses of >the persons sharing the room with him/her. These persons must also have >registered for the conference before. No, some of the people will be booking for themselves and their families, taking a whole 4. > >4. possibly the roomassignments will be publicly available, so people >can rearange the assignement in private mails. But I am not sure how we >can reflect these rearangements on the public site in a simple and >secure way. This is where I enviison using a wiki, and we will lose some on security. But once you have your room filled, you can secure that. If we have a problem with people erasing people's names so that they can get in on the room they want with the people they like, we can deal with it then. I suspect that this will only be a problem if we have drastically underestimated the number of people who want rooms. You DON'T want to do this via private mails. It has to be on a website, or publically posted someplace. I've been through this before, and here is why. Persons T U V and W decide to come to Europython, and talk about sharing a room. Person T books this. Sometime next week, Person T revises his booking -- now T U V and Q are in, and W is out. W is or is not informed by mail ... Come the day of the conference, some very unhappy Ws have no place to stay. The conference organisers have to put them up in their own houses. Since one of the reasons that people bump others out of the room is that the have belatedly discovered that W is a jerk, things are even worse for the conference organisers than is usually the case. Room assignments have to be posted at all times, and the posted one is the one that must be adhered to in case of a dispute. >That is the solution I consider the best compromised between relativly >easy/simple to implement and flexibility for the attendees. Ideas welcome. It misses the big problem in coordination altogether. These are not rooms 'just for the 2 nights in between the conference'. People are arriving on different days, and staying for different lengths, based on when they want to have their Sprints (and some people want to have a vacation in G?teborg before or after the conference as well). We need a way for people who are looking for roommates to advertise what they want -- and here I think a wiki is best -- and then, when they get a group formed, then book themselves as a room. People who haven't formed a group by the last day of booking for SGS veckobost?der might be subject to arbitrarily getting assigned to each other, but I hope that little or none of that will be necessary. Part of the fun of this is in getting to know other people. Why not let that start as a quest to find roommates? Laura From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 2 07:04:00 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 2 07:04:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> (Laura Creighton's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:52:09 +0100") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> Laura Creighton writes: > The level of resentment I experience when I have to make a password to > do something I want is so intense that I often decide it's not worth it. For heaven's sake, people are going to be typing their credit card numbers into this site! So long as we are careful to make the process of going from visiting the site for the first time to being a paid up comfirmed conference attendee painless and *obvious* I don't think this is a big deal. So we have a link "Register for the Conference". If the user is not registered for the site, they get directed to a page saying "please enter some details here or log in", then on to the (con) registration page. If they are already logged in to the site, they proceed straight to the latter page. I was under the impression that the webwerkers had this in hand (many websites work this way). > In the case of conferences, it means that I either won't go or just show > up. I don't know how many people resent passwords as much as I do; > many people do not care because they save them all on their laptops, and > figure if they lose their laptop, their life is over anyway, so :-) I just use the same password a lot... > We have several things we want people to be able to do: > > indicate that they are coming > > indicate food allergies & vegetarian status > > pay for the conference > > sign up for a sprint > > sign up for a tutorial These ^ > submit a tutorial > > submit a talk > > submit a referred paper and these ^ are somewhat unrelated, i.e. I'd have thought people would be unlikely to do them at the same time. > pay for the conference > > reserve rooms through us at SGS bost?der -- also for their families and > other significant people they are bringing these are back in the first category again. > Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you > fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_. I don't want them to > have to log in in addition to all of the above. That is just > irritating. Well, they are going to have to tell us who they are for any of the above actions to make much sense! > Logins, in my opinion, are for people who want to participate in the > creation of the website, not for people who just want to use the > thing.. I think you may be on the losing side of that website design argument (globally, I mean, not just in relation to the epc site). Cheers, mwh -- Finding a needle in a haystack is a lot easier if you burn down the haystack and scan the ashes with a metal detector. -- the Silicon Valley Tarot (another one nicked from David Rush) From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 2 07:11:48 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 2 07:11:52 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten's_message_of?= "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:25:38 +0100") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <2mk723fny3.fsf@starship.python.net> Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: > I ****REALLY*** would like to point out the fact that *EVERYBODY* was > suppopsed to have come back to us with feedback and observations like > "should it really look this/that way" for the past 3 weeks. Not now, > but, like, last week at the latest. Sorry. Life gets in the way, etc. Besides up until /fairly/ recently the website was so raw that it was hard for someone who hadn't been working on it and didn't understand plone to make head or tail of (at least, I couldn't). Now you've reached the point where the peanut gallery can see what's going on and carp. > Now, the focus should of course be to makig things better, so we are > open to any alternative suggestions that may arise. However, merely > asking whether something should look like that or not without a > couterproposal will get very few things done. > > The way it was setup up previously was like this: > > EPC 2004 at the top, it being a symlink to /conferences/epc2004 > > however, since it opened up the navigation box in the bottom half, it > was deemed to be unusually hard for visitors to understand, thus it > was changed to be the way it is now. Is there a chance that having OrderedFolders (or whatever it was) installed will make this more sensible? > It is not the best solution but the best so far. Any opinions on > alternative ways of doing this, please give them *NOW* so that we have > a chance to change it. I'm afraid I'm too ignorant to see the possibilities :-( Having some stuff under /epc/current and some other stuff under /epc/conferences/epc2004 does seem suboptimal. If we can reorg. things so that on going to the root of the site the user sees in the nav box: EPC Conferences 2004 About the EPC Interviews ... and there's a big fat link in the content area to /epc/conferences/epc2004, then that suits *me* fine. Others may have other complaints. > Apologies for the somewhat harsh tone of this mail, it is not directed > at you personally, but to the list in general - it is bad style to > ignore bea's pleas for feedback during three weeks and then, when > everybody suddenly realises that "shit, we need to have the website > online yesterday" all kinds of opinions, some not so nicely presented, > come flying by. Feel free to be rude back :-) > But, like I said - focus is on getting a great website, so keep those > questions and suggestions coming. Indeed, the site seems to be coming together really nicely! It's about 90% there, we just need to do the other 90% now . Cheers, mwh -- Sufficiently advanced political correctness is indistinguishable from irony. -- Erik Naggum From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 2 07:15:45 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 2 07:15:48 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices In-Reply-To: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> (Joachim Schmitz's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:59:50 +0100") References: <40446926.4030809@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <2mfzcrfnri.fsf@starship.python.net> Joachim Schmitz writes: > 2. if one books a single bed in a 2-bed or 4-bed room, the next free bed > in room of that category (with the same sex) will be assigned to you. I agree with Laura that assigning people beds like this is probably a bad idea. We have N beds in 4 bed rooms and M beds in 2 bed rooms, but who gets which beds is more-or-less up to those involved (up to a few days before people start arriving when the disorganized ones get shoved where they still fit). This sort of thing will probably end up being organized via wikis, personal emails and bits of paper... This means less work for you, I think :-) Cheers, mwh -- Famous remarks are very seldom quoted correctly. -- Simeon Strunsky From mal at egenix.com Tue Mar 2 07:17:12 2004 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Tue Mar 2 07:17:17 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation prices In-Reply-To: <404236CC.1040403@comcast.net> References: <200401140247.19083.jacob@strakt.com> <404206E5.2030809@egenix.com> <404236CC.1040403@comcast.net> Message-ID: <40447B48.7070300@egenix.com> Thank you for the many suggestions. Perhaps the orga team can put up this information on the web-site ? Jeremiah Foster wrote: > There are some excellent and affordable accommodations in G?teborg. I'll > start with the really cheap first; > > One very good option is the Spar Hotel[1], there are two of them, the > one I am linking to is literally two minutes walk from the conference. > Spar means "save" in Swedish so this is a budget conscious hotel. Rooms > are about 65 EUR and like most Swedish hotels, it should be very > comfortable. In fact, my experience is that Swedish youth hostels are > nicer than many cheap hotels in other parts of the world. You may > seriously want to consider them because they are very nice. (If you ever > go to G?vle, you must stay at the hostel there, it is amazing.) One such > hostel, called a minihotel because it really is a hotel, is G?teborgs > Minihotel[2]. The price list is from 2001, but even if prices have risen > it is incredibly cheap; for a two-bed room it is 20 EUR per bed. Another > good option, near the ferry terminals and the Nordic regions largest > record store, is Massthuggsterrasens Vandrarhem[3]. > > Another possibility is Hotel Vasa[4] in Vasastan, one of the nicest > parts of the city. It is a short walk to the center and the conference > and there are many, many cafes lining Vasagatan, the main street through > Vasastan. It is one of the hipper areas for restaurants and there are > clubs near by on the Avenyn. Prices at Hotel Vasa are listed in SEK but > are closer to 100 EUR, even less than that depending when you are there. > > This option is a hotel[5] right on the Avenyn, G?teborg's main street. > The prices are current and are as low as 47 EUR. > > More info can be gleaned from G?teborg's main web site[6] which is > pretty good. > > I am not a conference organizer so I cannot speak to any arrangements > that may or have not been made on behalf of attendees, but hopefully > there will be something reasonable available, G?teborg is a lovely city > especially at that time of year and good attendance at the conference I > am sure is welcome. > > Let me know if I can help in any other way. > > - Jeremiah Foster // Pythonian > > [1] http://www.sparhotel.se/index2.asp?iLanguageID=2 > [2] http://www.minihotel.se/ > [3] http://www.mastenvandrarhem.com/ > [4] http://www.hotelvasa.se/ > [5] http://www.avenyturist.com/English/en_index.htm > [6] http://www.goteborg.se/prod/sk/goteborg.nsf/1/english?OpenDocument > Map with hotels from city center > http://www.esa.int/sympo2000/hotels.htm > > M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> Are there any reasonably priced hotels in G?teborg ? >> >> The only one I found was an IBIS hotel; all others have prices >> which start at 120 EUR per night... >> >> Will the organizers arrange special rates in any of these hotels >> (like we did in Charleroi) ? >> >> Thanks, > > > -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Mar 02 2004) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ EuroPython 2004, G?teborg, Sweden 96 days left ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: From faassen at infrae.com Tue Mar 2 08:46:57 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue Mar 2 08:44:54 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> Michael Hudson wrote: >>Each one of these needs to be a form, or part of a form, and when you >>fill it out, and hit submit, you are _done_. I don't want them to >>have to log in in addition to all of the above. That is just >>irritating. >> >> > >Well, they are going to have to tell us who they are for any of the >above actions to make much sense! > > > Right, so a login makes a lot of sense. You make a login and fill in your personal details *once* for your account, and then when logged in sign up to this and that, submit this and that, etc. This way you can avoid having to fill in your contact information 5 times for each form you fill in. What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and the like. Regards, Martijn From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 09:18:25 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 09:18:46 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> Message-ID: <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> Martijn Faassen wrote: > What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the > *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for > the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email > giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied > random password and enter their conference preferences and the like. this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the conference. I perceived some hints that this may not be the case... or am i wrong? Because if not, then the registration is for the conference and the you get access to all the nifty other features, like paper submittal, room reservation, etc. /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 09:37:33 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 09:37:47 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:18:25 +0100." <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200403021437.i22EbX7X021858@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:18:25 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: >Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the >> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up for > >> the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send an email > >> giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with supplied >> random password and enter their conference preferences and the like. > >this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we >are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the >conference. This looks good to me. I like it that you can register for the conference and not have to go through the hasslde of getting a login, or waiting for it to be validated. This is all I wanted to avoid. > >I perceived some hints that this may not be the case... or am i wrong? > >Because if not, then the registration is for the conference and the you >get access to all the nifty other features, like paper submittal, room >reservation, etc. > >/dario I know somebody who wants to submit a paper. If it is accepted he is flying here from the USA. If it isn't, he isn't. I don't think that he would mind doing somehting like 'indicating an interest to attend' but no cash will change hands until he hears from the Refereed Paper Authorities. Laura From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 2 09:45:52 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 2 09:45:54 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten's_message_of?= "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:18:25 +0100") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: > Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the >> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up >> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send >> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with >> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and >> the like. > > this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we > are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the > conference. Um... why? So long as it's possible to join the site independently of registering for the con as well, is this a problem? And, after all, you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this. Cheers, mwh -- Remember - if all you have is an axe, every problem looks like hours of fun. -- Frossie -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 10:07:41 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:08:04 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> Michael Hudson wrote: > Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: > >> Martijn Faassen wrote: >> >>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the >>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up >>> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send >>> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with >>> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and >>> the like. >> >> >> this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we >> are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the >> conference. > > > Um... why? So long as it's possible to join the site independently of > registering for the con as well, is this a problem? And, after all, > you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this. uh... right. How about this: 1) Sign up for the site 1.b) We prod you about personal info (optional as long as you haven't signed up for the conference or any other activity that needs personal info) and incidentally we ask if you wish to sing up for the 2004 conference (though this is optional) 2) Once you are signed up to the site you can with the same sign up specify if you want to sign up for the conference, submit a paper etc. Each thing uses your personal information that you specified at some point - no need to re-enter any info. Alternatively, every time people sign up to the conference or any other activity on the site, an account is created for them (unless they have one previously). The main point we are trying to make is that we need personal info on people. NAd if we don't want to force them to enter it more than once (for everybody else than plain conference attendants) then we need to be able to retrieve that info somehow. Now, I have a small doubt - how much of this, if anything is actually in place? /dario - will shut up now. -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From jacob at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 10:16:42 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:16:46 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes Message-ID: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com> Oh dear, what a mess. I guess it is all my fault, because I should have understood more about web thingies. However, I didn't, and now we need to clear up the whole mess in a hurry, because we are running very late. I will list the things I want to accomplish. I understand that some of them may be impossible to do or require an extraordinary amount of work. If so, I need to be told about it, and I need an alternate route suggested. We have a day or two before the website _must_ go live. 1. I want a website that is clean and simple to navigate for the visitor. This means that the boxes for logging in and publishing information must be gone. The only thing acceptable for the administration of the site is a single, discreet button somewhere. The site should be a EuroPython website, not a Plone website. 2. I want a sidebar that looks like the old site. I want to change some of the headings and links, but otherwise I want it to be exactly the same. It is a very good navigation tool, providing just the right help. When we have these, we can get rid of the tabs at the top (No, tabs at the top is not a working replacement -- I really want the grouping of the subjects that you get on the sidebar in the old website). 3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to supply a password. The registration process should not require them to select "register" as one operation and then require a step "submit paper". The workflow should be that they select "submit paper" -- then, if registration is necessary, the workflow process gives them a registration form, followed by the form for submitting the paper. 4. Registering for things should be a series of links in the left sidebar. Now, time is very short, and that means that there is no room for discussion of wether my list of points is the best thing or not. What I want to know is if the things I am asking for are possible in the current timeframe. Jacob From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 10:25:14 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:25:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:07:41 +0100." <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:07:41 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: >Michael Hudson wrote: > > > Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: > > > >> Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> > >>> What would be nice if it'd be possible to sign up for at least the > >>> *conference* without a login. One way to do it is to let signing up > >>> for the conference be one way to *generate* a login. It could send > >>> an email giving login info, and asks the user to please log in with > >>> supplied random password and enter their conference preferences and > >>> the like. > >> > >> > >> this was more or less the idea we (or at least I) had in mind, but we > >> are then assuming that everybody who signs up will be attending the > >> conference. > > > > > > Um... why? So long as it's possible to join the site independently of > > registering for the con as well, is this a problem? And, after all, > > you, me, bea, gnube, etc have all joined the site like this. > > >uh... right. How about this: > >1) Sign up for the site >1.b) We prod you about personal info (optional as long as you haven't >signed up for the conference or any other activity that needs personal >info) and incidentally we ask if you wish to sing up for the 2004 >conference (though this is optional) >2) Once you are signed up to the site you can with the same sign up >specify if you want to sign up for the conference, submit a paper etc. > >Each thing uses your personal information that you specified at some >point - no need to re-enter any info. > >Alternatively, every time people sign up to the conference or any other >activity on the site, an account is created for them (unless they have >one previously). --- this is the alternative I like. But I do not understand why they need an account. Once we have their name, we can try to collect information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things. What I mean is 'This is my name. This is my email. Here is my payment. click.' This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take. *Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut allergies/no red meat/ we have -- but as the bottom line, name, email, and money is all we absolutely have to have. Laura From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 2 10:35:40 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:35:42 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> (Laura Creighton's message of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:25:14 +0100") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> Laura Creighton writes: > --- this is the alternative I like. But I do not understand why they > need an account. Once we have their name, we can try to collect > information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we > can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things. How is this different from them having an account? I seem to see people saying "I don't want X, Y and Z, I want Y, Z and X" a lot here... Cheers, mwh -- GET *BONK* BACK *BONK* IN *BONK* THERE *BONK* -- Naich using the troll hammer in cam.misc From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 10:42:39 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:42:57 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se> Laura Creighton wrote: > --- this is the alternative I like. But I do not understand why they > need an account. Once we have their name, we can try to collect > information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we > can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things. > > > What I mean is > > 'This is my name. This is my email. Here is my payment. click.' > > This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for > the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take. > > *Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help > the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* > > is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in > people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut > allergies/no red meat/ we have -- but as the bottom line, name, > email, and money is all we absolutely have to have. right, so as long as we make it non-intrusive to the *average* user we can make a set of forms that do the job, right? /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 10:47:40 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 10:47:58 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes In-Reply-To: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <4044AC9C.2070104@ita.chalmers.se> *sigh* what a mess. How about we scrpa the new ideas we have altogether ans just reuse the old site? /dario - giving up... From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 11:12:01 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 11:12:17 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: Message from Michael Hudson of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:35:40 GMT." <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 15:35:40 GMT, Michael Hudson writes: >Laura Creighton writes: > >> --- this is the alternative I like. But I do not understand why they >> need an account. Once we have their name, we can try to collect >> information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we >> can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things >. > >How is this different from them having an account? > >I seem to see people saying "I don't want X, Y and Z, I want Y, Z and >X" a lot here... > >Cheers, >mwh Aha, perhaps it is a language problem. Accounts for me are things with passwords. You have to supply a password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then typing it to use the system. I have 0% faith in password security, so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity). If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and which had the password, , and where they were never prompted for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had accounts, and just interacted with the website. People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder. Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or may not. So what. Right now, what I am seeing is the notion that since we moved to Plone, which was supposed to make everythiong easier, we have discovered a hidden cost. It is now tons easier for the people who know Plone, and some of the people who know Zope, and even people who knew neither, to add content to the website. Contact me if you wish to do this and don't know how. This is its virtue. What isn't good, what isn't even close to acceptable, is the notion that you have to be a plone-login-holder to register for the conference. I want people who have 15 minutes to register for EuroPython, just before they leave for a concert, to be able to do type, type, type, click, in ... done'. So is what you call an account different from what I do? From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 11:14:40 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 2 11:14:56 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:42:39 +0100." <4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4044AB6F.3050504@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200403021614.i22GEfP3022202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 02 Mar 2004 16:42:39 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: >Laura Creighton wrote: >> --- this is the alternative I like. But I do not understand why they >> need an account. Once we have their name, we can try to collect >> information and we can stuff it into a database someplace so we >> can refer to it later, and keep people from having to retype things >. >> >> >> What I mean is >> >> 'This is my name. This is my email. Here is my payment. click >.' >> >> This the the very minimum that you should need to do to register for >> the early bird rate at EuroPython, and that is about all it should take >. >> >> *Please take a moment to fill out this questionaire which will help >> the EuroPython Organisers make your stay more pleasant* >> >> is all well and good, and as Food Czar, I am really interested in >> people's food wants, and how many vegetarians/lactose intolerant/nut >> allergies/no red meat/ we have -- but as the bottom line, name, >> email, and money is all we absolutely have to have. > >right, so as long as we make it non-intrusive to the *average* user we >can make a set of forms that do the job, right? > >/dario I would say 'typical' rather than average, but yes, this is what I think is reasonable. Laura From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 11:28:25 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 11:28:42 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <4044B629.1010008@ita.chalmers.se> Laura Creighton wrote: > What isn't good, what isn't even close to acceptable, is the notion > that you have to be a plone-login-holder to register for the > conference. I want people who have 15 minutes to register for > EuroPython, just before they leave for a concert, to be able to > do type, type, type, click, in ... done'. you can hardly blame plone for the fact that this is a decision we, IIRC, cleared with all of you a copule of weeks ago on a meeting and got "OK" for. This has of course nohing to do with plone. /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 2 13:18:20 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 13:18:39 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Updated the website with a new structure... Message-ID: <4044CFEC.9040609@ita.chalmers.se> small changes, but i thik it is a step towards what people have expressed that they need. It is not complete, ie. all the info on thet society would have to be moved to a separate folder, but it is a start. will work on it tomorrow, dont have more time today. /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 2 14:38:12 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 2 14:38:19 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBSZTogRXVyb3B5dGhvbiBUdXRvcmlhbHMgcXVlc3Rpb25haXJl?= Message-ID: Francesco Ciriaci wrote: > Is there a mailing list I can subscribe to? thanks. Yes. See http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From faassen at infrae.com Tue Mar 2 15:00:31 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue Mar 2 14:58:22 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow Message-ID: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com> Hi there, Since we now have a long thread on this and a significant amount of confusion, let me sketch out some use cases: Use cases: Actors: * system: the website * person: a person in the wild unknown to us who wants to register for EuroPython. * talk submitter: someone who wants to submit a talk for EP * plone user: a person registered with Plone Use case 1: Person registers for EuroPython 1 person goes to EuroPython website. 2 person clicks easy to find 'Register now!' link/button on homepage 3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged in, also ask for username. 4 system sends off person to site with payment details. 5 If person is not logged in, system makes person into plone user, including random password. 6 person is registered with EP for conference. person receives a mail with confirmation. If person is not logged in, also include plone user account information with random password. Extensions: 3a username is already known with system but user isn't 3a1 system shows form again, and asks for different username 3b username is already known to the system as person already has plone account 3b1 Person is presented with option to log in first. 3b2 Person becomes Plone User. 3b3 To step 2. Use case 2: Plone user provides dietary preferences 1. Home page/email presents clear link to 'dietary preferences' page. User clicks on it. 2. System shows in dietary preferences in form of this particular user. 3. User fills in form. Extensions: 2a User is not logged in 2a1 System shows login form to user 2a2. User logs in. Back to step 2. 2b. User tries to change preferences at last minute! 2b1 System prevents user from access these screens after certain cutoff date. (alternative: at cutoff date information is retrieved from the system, all later changes are lost). Use case 3: Plone user submits talk 1. Home page provides link to 'submit talk' page. User clicks on it. 2. System provides talk submission form. 3. Plone user submits talk. Extensions: 2a. User is not logged in 2a1. System shows login form to user 2a2. User logs in. Back to step 2. Regards, Martijn From faassen at infrae.com Tue Mar 2 15:03:03 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Tue Mar 2 15:00:56 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes In-Reply-To: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403021616.42515.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <4044E877.2050602@infrae.com> Jacob Hall?n wrote: >3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely >identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to >supply a password. The registration process should not require them to select >"register" as one operation and then require a step "submit paper". The >workflow should be that they select "submit paper" -- then, if registration >is necessary, the workflow process gives them a registration form, followed >by the form for submitting the paper. > > > I think this requirement can be weakened: * people who want to register for the conference proper shouldn't have to log in * people who want to do anything else (submit talk, dietary preferences, etc, etc) *are* required to create a login. If this significantly eases the production of the website I think this is a good enough compromise. Regards, Martijn From steve at z3u.com Tue Mar 2 15:28:41 2004 From: steve at z3u.com (Steve Alexander) Date: Tue Mar 2 15:29:04 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow In-Reply-To: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com> References: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com> Message-ID: <20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt> > 3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged > in, also ask for username. Thanks for the digestion / summary. Can we use email addresses as usernames? - We will be collecting email addresses anyway, so why ask for a username too? - I really dislike websites that ask me to choose a username, but don't tell me what usernames are already taken. - I usually remember passwords, but often forget usernames when I can't use my usual username. -- Steve Alexander From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 2 18:18:45 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 2 18:18:51 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWJpdGUgd29lcw==?= Message-ID: Jacob wrote: > We have a day or two before the website _must_ go live. That sounds like a very short time to fix this for people who happen to have other jobs they need to handle besides this... Particularly since there seems to be some work left on the pure content side as well. E.g. http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/about/contact directs people to the Charleroi team... The site seems inconsistent on when early bird registration will start. 15th of March according to http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/current/view and http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/Attending/ and 1st of March according to http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/events/Event.2004-02-23.4350/view I assume registration start at 15th of March isn't bad. I doubt that people will rush to register for the conference before there is any real content presented for the conference. First of all, I think we need people to submit talks, and present that to the web site visitors. I felt this was a big problem last year, when EPC was new to me and I didn't know what to expect from it. The web site was advertised, and I looked week after week for some kind of content, so that I could find out what to expect if I went there. It took (I felt) a long time before stuff started to appear. It was only through the mailing list and by guessing that it would be similar to the previous year that I managed to get an impression of what the conference would be like. It's my opinion that it's bad to advertise something before you have something substantial to offer. A lot of people will just turn away and ignore you when you try to approach them again. So, don't bang on the big drum to get people to register until we are clear on the keynote speakers, and have at least a substancial part of the speakers list. > 3. People registering for talks, attendance and lodging should be uniquely > identified by an email address they provide. They should not be required to > supply a password. Registration with an email address certainly makes sense to me. Is it reasonably easy to set plone up so that people need to use a valid email address as user name? If I've registered information on the web site, I want to be able to see what info I've entered, and maybe change things. It should certainly not be possible for me to see someone elses personal info just by typing in their email address. This makes me feel that a password is required. But it's fine with me if the system makes a password and mails it to me when I've registered. I'd also like to be able to get a password reminder via email. It seems trivial to write code to generate a password and send that in an email similar to the kind of join mailing list emails that Mailman sends. I don't know how easy it is to integrate this with the Plone system though. Password generation could be done something like this: import random chars = "ABCDEFGHJKLMNPRSTUVWXYZabcdefghjkmnopqrstuvwxyz23456789" "".join([random.choice(chars) for x in range(8)]) (My experience is that including 1, l, I, O and 0 in generated passwords causes support to users who misread the characters and complain that the password doesn't work. I guess some special characters could be ok as well, but maybe 55**8 different passwords is enough?) -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 2 18:40:48 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 2 18:41:07 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWIgc2l0ZSB3b25kZXJpbmdzIA==?= Message-ID: Laura wrote: > People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one > they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will > often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder. > Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or > may not. So what. But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they registered with, saying something like: ''' Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference. Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython 2004 Conference in ... with the following information: [snip] Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this is not correct. Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information, such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want to book a room at our bla bla bla. Make sure that you save this information for further reference. ''' Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit? -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 2 18:41:12 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 2 18:41:18 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSBXZWIgc2l0ZSB3b25kZXJpbmdzIA==?= Message-ID: Laura wrote: > People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one > they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will > often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder. > Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or > may not. So what. But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they registered with, saying something like: ''' Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference. Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython 2004 Conference in ... with the following information: [snip] Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this is not correct. Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information, such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want to book a room at our bla bla bla. Make sure that you save this information for further reference. ''' Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit? -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From jacob at strakt.com Tue Mar 2 19:17:22 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Tue Mar 2 19:17:25 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com> On onsdag 3 mars 2004 00.41, Magnus Lycka wrote: > Laura wrote: > > People with multiple email addresses who cannot remember which one > > they used to instantiate official identity on the website -- will > > often instatiate again, suffer website-multiple-personality-disorder. > > Making this thing do call by reference, via 'Full Name' may work, or > > may not. So what. > > But what if they got an email sent to the mail address they > registered with, saying something like: > > ''' > Confirmation of registration for the EuroPython 2004 Conference. > > Someone (presumably you) have registered to attend at the EuroPython > 2004 Conference in ... with the following information: > [snip] > > Please get in touch with us at admin@europython.org if this > is not correct. > > Log in to the EPC web site at [url] using whatever@example.com with > password ew435df2 if you want to change or add any information, > such as food preferences or to submit papers etc, or if you want > to book a room at our bla bla bla. > > Make sure that you save this information for further reference. > ''' > > Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit? It would be a lot better, usability wise. Jacob From sasha at systemvaruhuset.com Tue Mar 2 16:55:59 2004 From: sasha at systemvaruhuset.com (Sasha Vincic) Date: Tue Mar 2 21:36:14 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website registration workflow In-Reply-To: <20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt> References: <4044E7DF.6070502@infrae.com> <20040302202841.GJ15280@fridge.pov.lt> Message-ID: <1078264558.3588.17.camel@silent> On Tue, 2004-03-02 at 21:28, Steve Alexander wrote: > > 3 system shows form asking for personal details. If person is not logged > > in, also ask for username. > > Thanks for the digestion / summary. > > > Can we use email addresses as usernames? > > - We will be collecting email addresses anyway, so why ask for a > username too? Zope & CMF don't permit usernames = emails due a standard where you can't have member folders = email. I have made a patch for a customer of mine who doesn't use member folders to allow emails as usernames but everything else is CMF/Plonish. So yes you can do it with a patch. From lists at simplistix.co.uk Wed Mar 3 04:46:51 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Wed Mar 3 04:46:57 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> Laura Creighton wrote: > Accounts for me are things with passwords. You have to supply a > password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then > typing it to use the system. I have 0% faith in password security, > so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity). Urm, I may be missing something here, but I suspect you may in a mintority there... > If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and > which had the password, , and where they were never prompted > for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were > hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had > accounts, and just interacted with the website. ...I don't think I'd even like to specify what talks I'd be attending without typing in a password over SSL ;-) The website _is_ SSL'ed, right?! Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From magnus at thinkware.se Wed Mar 3 05:35:33 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Mar 3 05:35:50 2004 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?B?UmU6IFtFdXJvUHl0aG9uXSB3ZWJzaXRlIHJlZ2lzdHJhdGlvbiB3b3JrZmxvdw==?= Message-ID: > Zope & CMF don't permit usernames = emails due a standard where you > can't have member folders = email. I have made a patch for a customer of > mine who doesn't use member folders to allow emails as usernames but > everything else is CMF/Plonish. I assume it would be possible to perform some kind of trick like username = email.lower().replace('@','AT').replace('.','DOT') (as far as I understand, email addresses are supposed to be case insensitive) and email = username.replace('AT','@').replace('DOT','.') to allow the use of both email logins and member folders. Or are there other restrictions, such as length, that cause trouble? -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr Wed Mar 3 06:22:11 2004 From: Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Wed Mar 3 06:22:20 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040303112211.GA28977@logilab.fr> On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:18:45AM +0100, Magnus Lycka wrote: > I doubt that people will rush to register for the > conference before there is any real content presented for > the conference. First of all, I think we need people to > submit talks, and present that to the web site visitors. > > I felt this was a big problem last year, when EPC was new to > me and I didn't know what to expect from it. The web site was > advertised, and I looked week after week for some kind of > content, so that I could find out what to expect if I went > there. It took (I felt) a long time before stuff started to > appear. It was only through the mailing list and by guessing > that it would be similar to the previous year that I managed > to get an impression of what the conference would be like. I have one talk accepted already and the corresponding PDF waiting in my mailbox. I can't wait to create an account and write down the password to never-forget-it-this-time-it-will-be-different as I look forward to upload that talk and to people having a chance to stare at more content. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From mwh at python.net Wed Mar 3 06:51:00 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed Mar 3 06:51:04 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of "Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:46:51 +0000") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> Chris Withers writes: > Laura Creighton wrote: > >> Accounts for me are things with passwords. You have to supply a >> password, and then are stuck remembering the damn thing, and then >> typing it to use the system. I have 0% faith in password security, >> so all I consider this is a barrier to commerce (and other activity). > > Urm, I may be missing something here, but I suspect you may in a mintority there... > >> If everybody could have an account which is their email address, and >> which had the password, , and where they were never prompted >> for a password, then I would say that people had accounts which were >> hassle free -- so hassle free that they were not aware that they had >> accounts, and just interacted with the website. > > ...I don't think I'd even like to specify what talks I'd be attending > without typing in a password over SSL ;-) > > The website _is_ SSL'ed, right?! For payment it will be. Probably not for anything else. Cheers, mwh -- CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and double it -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 3 17:44:55 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 3 17:34:46 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info Message-ID: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document where I can find out about the folliowing: 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts which can point me directly to the right direction. Thanks in advance, Tom. From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 3 17:29:14 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 3 17:37:12 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more References: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi Dario, I'm one of the persons who has access, so I can install products: Tell me: 1) where I can find the ordered folder product you want to have installed 2) which char I've to change in the CMFCalendar code 3)where I can find the restructured text product. Regards, Tom. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dario Lopez-K?sten" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: [Tom] [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more hello, I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the following two things fixed. 1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with plone 2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at monday (a 1 char change in the product code) 3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with reStrecturedText. Ok, so that was three things :-) Cheese, /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. _______________________________________________ EuroPython mailing list EuroPython@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From magnus at thinkware.se Wed Mar 3 17:10:44 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Wed Mar 3 17:45:11 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web material Message-ID: I've written some more info about G?teborg. This time about the local industry. I thought it might be of interest to the visitors to know that the cameras used by the astronauts to take pictures on the moon were built in G?teborg etc. http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/companies Is this relevant? Other comments? I guess it's not number one priority at this very moment, but it's something that could help build curiosity for a visit. I've previously written a bit on travel info, and not no feedback at all :( but I think almost all of the substance in http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/travelinfo have already appeared elsewhere in the site. I plan to write some more about places to visit in G?teborg a bit later, but that will be at least a week from now. Since I haven't actually lived in G?teborg since 1997 (but I plan to return soon :) I would need some guidence on some issues such as nice pubs and clubs etc. Is Nef http://www.nefertiti.se/ as good as it used to be? What else? http://www.jazzhuset.se/ ? Folkmusikkaf?et is nice for people who like folk dancing, but closed in the summer I think. Python programmers don't go to shallow night clubs like Tr?dg?r'n or Valand, do they? ;) Is Sommarklubben (or whatever it's called these days) open during the conference? At least for eating, the work is already done! :) http://www.strakt.com/guide.html -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From js at aixtraware.de Wed Mar 3 17:55:48 2004 From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Wed Mar 3 17:55:51 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more In-Reply-To: <00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <404437B8.207@ita.chalmers.se> <00bb01c4016f$92165030$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <40466274.1090205@aixtraware.de> Hi Tom, ordered folder is already installed. Tom Deprez said the following on 03/03/04 23:29: > Hi Dario, > > I'm one of the persons who has access, so I can install products: > > Tell me: > > 1) where I can find the ordered folder product you want to have > installed > 2) which char I've to change in the CMFCalendar code > 3)where I can find the restructured text product. > > Regards, > Tom. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dario Lopez-K?sten" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:28 AM > Subject: [Tom] [EuroPython] OrderedFolder installed on epc-devel + more > > > hello, > > I forget who has shell access to the EPC-devel site. but I need the > following two things fixed. > > 1) I need to have a version of OrderedFolder installed that works with > plone > > 2) I need to have the CMFCalendar changed so that weekdays astart at > monday (a 1 char change in the product code) > > 3) I need to know whether we can replace StructuredText with > reStrecturedText. > > Ok, so that was three things :-) > > Cheese, > > /dario > -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en Joachim Schmitz ...................................................................... AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 From lac at strakt.com Wed Mar 3 23:34:36 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:22:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web material In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 03 Mar 2004 23:10:44 +0100." References: Message-ID: <200403040434.i244Yafh026844@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Alas, the resturant guide at www.strakt.com needs revising. Plus its the guide to the top resturants in town, and we need one for the most inexpensive places as well.... Nefertiti http://www.nefertiti.se/ is still great ... Andrew Dalke has been spending evenints here going Salsa dancing. I'll get him to post content ... Laura From dario at ita.chalmers.se Thu Mar 4 00:12:41 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:22:42 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <4046BAC9.3070702@ita.chalmers.se> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. do this in the ZMI. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. Do this in the ZMI - create a zpt document - take for instance a copy of one of the folder listins. > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. If you are loking into making an index_html for the interviews folder, I am allready working on it. Please tell me what kind of information you need displayed apart from what you allready see in the default folder listing. Sincerely, /dario for the web-team -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr Thu Mar 4 02:24:54 2004 From: Nicolas.Chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:24:27 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <20040304072454.GA28062@logilab.fr> > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. use the metadata tab that appears on top of the document. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. add that as you would add any object thru the ZMI, but make sure you call the right macros to have headers, footers, etc. Use portal_skins/* as an example. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From lists at simplistix.co.uk Thu Mar 4 03:44:36 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:25:51 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> Michael Hudson wrote: > For payment it will be. Probably not for anything else. Why not? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From mario at ruggier.org Thu Mar 4 04:30:31 2004 From: mario at ruggier.org (Mario Ruggier) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:29:56 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Tutorials questionaire In-Reply-To: <200402231940.i1NJe0Qd019719@enzo.strakt.com> Message-ID: <94C90E26-6DBE-11D8-ACCD-000393756786@ruggier.org> > Dear Europython 2003 attendee, > > The organising committee for Europython is currently busy planning > this years conference, which will run in G?teborg, Sweden, 7-9 June > 2004. > > To help us serve the community in the best way possible, we need your > input on what you think we should do in the way of tutorials. > > Please send this questionare filled in to "europython@python.org". > > 1. Are you likely to attend Europython? > > Yes/No/Only if there are tutorials I'd like to go to. No, not likely. But not out of the question either. > 2. What topics would you be interested in? How much would you be ready > to pay for such a tutorial? Discussion/comparison of developing python applications within a j2ee-like framework, should one be defined or agreed upon. I feel this is Python's biggest lack, and the no.1 reason for difficulty in making a case for using python for large applications and systems. The cost should be part of the conference, but I would be willing to pay a reasonable rate should it be asked. > 3. When would it be most suitable for you to participate in a tutorial? > Please rank the alternatives. > a. Friday 4 June > b. Saturday 5 June > c. Sunday 6 June > d. During the conference > e. When it doesn't conflict with my Sprint > f. Thursday 10 June d. During the Conference f. Thur 10 June (maybe) > 4. Would you be willing to give a tutorial? On what subject(s)? No. > 5. Is there any other input you would like to give us? Please make it as easy as possible to arrange for us to come -- information for inexpensive transport and accommodation! > More information about Europython 2004 will be available shortly at > http://www.europython.org. > > For the Europython team > > Jacob Hall?n > Head organiser Best regards, Mario Ruggier email mario@ruggier.org home +33 4 50 41 96 14 mobile +41 79 214 0791 From bea at webwitches.com Thu Mar 4 04:41:12 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:30:00 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <1078393272.13537.108.camel@ogg> On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. > > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. Hi Tom et al. The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day. We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so case closed :) So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this evening? see you then bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From mwh at python.net Thu Mar 4 06:12:03 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:31:12 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of "Thu, 04 Mar 2004 08:44:36 +0000") References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net> Chris Withers writes: > Michael Hudson wrote: > >> For payment it will be. Probably not for anything else. > > Why not? What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good argument :-) Cheers, mwh -- If you're talking "useful", I'm not your bot. -- Tim Peters, 08 Nov 2001 From mwh at python.net Thu Mar 4 06:18:57 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:31:18 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> (Tom Deprez's message of "Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:44:55 +0100") References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <2m1xo8c126.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: > Hi, Is this all about the interviews page? I've made a start on playing with that (as you can probably see). > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. Like, e.g. "interview date"? :-) This seems to be a more a zope than plone question, and I don't know how to do it. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. This is easy, ish. And I've already done it for /epc/interviews/. What I did was (1) download the plone 1.0.5 source (2) in the ZMI upload CMFPlone/skins/plone_forms/folder_listing.pt to /epc/interviews/index_html (3) hack at this a bit. > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. I'm planning on staying up as long as it takes tonight to get the site ready for public consumption, and suspect #plone on freenode is going to be on the receiving end of a lot of questions... Cheers, mwh -- : Giant screaming pieces of excrement, they are. I have a feeling that some of the people in here have a MUCH more exciting time relieving themselves than I do. -- Mike Sphar & Dave Brown, asr From eldada at mdstud.chalmers.se Thu Mar 4 06:23:23 2004 From: eldada at mdstud.chalmers.se (Ali El Dada) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:31:21 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web material References: Message-ID: <404711AB.6070704@mdstud.chalmers.se> I am (a Python programmer of course :) ) studying in Chalmers, so I hope I can help in anything, although I have been living in G?teborg for only a couple of months. From this experience I can say that some places to visit in the city include the Liseberg park and the islands in G?teborg's archipelago... they should be lovely in the summer (i live on one of them!) probably the best place to search is http://www.goteborg.com/ , and of course the tourist information office when you arrive.. this is located at the Kungsportsplatsen stop.. And speaking about tram/bus stops, you will probably need to check out http://www.vasttrafik.se , the site of the company responsible for transportation within the city (tram, bus, ferry boats...). and i think good clubs include excet and tr?dg?rn, but as Magnus indicated, that depends on taste :) Regards, Ali El Dada Magnus Lycka wrote: >I've written some more info about G?teborg. This time about >the local industry. I thought it might be of interest to >the visitors to know that the cameras used by the astronauts >to take pictures on the moon were built in G?teborg etc. > >http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/companies > >Is this relevant? Other comments? I guess it's not number >one priority at this very moment, but it's something that >could help build curiosity for a visit. > >I've previously written a bit on travel info, and not no >feedback at all :( but I think almost all of the substance in >http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/Members/mly/travelinfo >have already appeared elsewhere in the site. > >I plan to write some more about places to visit in G?teborg >a bit later, but that will be at least a week from now. > >Since I haven't actually lived in G?teborg since 1997 (but >I plan to return soon :) I would need some guidence on some >issues such as nice pubs and clubs etc. Is Nef >http://www.nefertiti.se/ as good as it used to be? What >else? http://www.jazzhuset.se/ ? Folkmusikkaf?et is nice for >people who like folk dancing, but closed in the summer >I think. Python programmers don't go to shallow night clubs >like Tr?dg?r'n or Valand, do they? ;) > >Is Sommarklubben (or whatever it's called these days) open >during the conference? > >At least for eating, the work is already done! :) >http://www.strakt.com/guide.html > > > From bea at webwitches.com Thu Mar 4 06:35:42 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:31:22 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <1078400140.14126.114.camel@ogg> This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning: On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. > > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. Hi Tom et al. The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day. We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so case closed :) So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this evening? see you then bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From bea at webwitches.com Thu Mar 4 09:30:31 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:35:24 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <1078410630.14126.118.camel@ogg> This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning, neither when I sent it at lunch: On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. > > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. Hi Tom et al. The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day. We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so case closed :) So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this evening? see you then bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From bea at webwitches.com Thu Mar 4 09:38:53 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Thu Mar 4 09:36:33 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info: fourth try In-Reply-To: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <1078411133.13534.121.camel@ogg> This seems to not have gone through when I sent it this morning, neither when I sent it at lunch, neither a few minutes ago... On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 23:44, Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a document > where I can find out about the folliowing: > > 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework (ie > navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some page > template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to know is > what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration > over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone layout. > > It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation and > this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone addicts > which can point me directly to the right direction. Hi Tom et al. The right direction is towards the europython channel, where the usual suspects have been toiling heavily over the last days to get the show on the road, so to say. JoachimS is working on finishing the accommodation part, dlk and svincic each have their local copies of stuff to test out a variety of options and have been working hard on it, and at least mvh and me (hopefully also some other suspects) will sit together and go through the pages tonight to see how much we can fix in terms of content. JoachimS is unavailable for that because he is working all day. We want to very specifically _not_ start re-discussing things that were agreed upon many weeks ago and whine about how everything would have been better if one had just... we already did that part on Monday, so case closed :) So it would be great if you could hop on tonight. You know the content of the existing site best so your participation is most welcome, as always. JoachimS has built a tool to automagically take over the old tracks, talks, etc, but sadly he won't be there tonight. Anyway, we have enough other stuff to cover in his absence. Are you available this evening? see you then bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From bea at webwitches.com Thu Mar 4 11:05:57 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Thu Mar 4 11:03:37 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] multiplied message Message-ID: <1078416357.14126.130.camel@ogg> Sorry for the multiplication. Whatever got stopped obviously went through in the end. -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From faassen at infrae.com Thu Mar 4 12:33:04 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu Mar 4 13:11:08 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403030117.22223.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <40476850.4@infrae.com> Jacob Hall?n wrote: >>Don't you think that would reduce the burden a bit? >> >> > >It would be a lot better, usability wise. > > > Note that this scenario is also in my use cases. :) Use cases (Alistair Cockburn style) do force one to think through these issues. Regards, Martijn From tom at aragne.com Thu Mar 4 14:52:20 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu Mar 4 14:50:41 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <4046BAC9.3070702@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <00ab01c40223$70f609e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a >> document where I can find out about the folliowing: >> >> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > > do this in the ZMI. Ah, okay, I thought this would be possible in the Plone interface as well, through dublic core properties. But looks like we need to do it the ZMI way. Fine by me. > >> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework >> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some >> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to >> know is what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an >> iteration over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the >> plone layout. > > Do this in the ZMI - create a zpt document - take for instance a copy > of one of the folder listins. > >> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation >> and this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone >> addicts which can point me directly to the right direction. > > If you are loking into making an index_html for the interviews > folder, I am allready working on it. Please tell me what kind of > information you need displayed apart from what you allready see in > the default folder listing. Great! Well, I want to have the interviews chronological as they were entered before. So I need to add a property somewhere where we place the date of publishing. (now they all are published on the day I added them to the Plone site, ie March 2004) Thanks, Tom. > Sincerely, > > > /dario > for the web-team From tom at aragne.com Thu Mar 4 14:52:25 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu Mar 4 14:50:44 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <20040304072454.GA28062@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <00ac01c40223$7287f480$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > > use the metadata tab that appears on top of the document. Mmm, this is the place I thought it would be, but I couldonly find the Properties tab, which only allows me to add keywords >> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework >> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some >> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to >> know is >> what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an iteration >> over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the plone >> layout. > > add that as you would add any object thru the ZMI, but make sure you > call the right macros to have headers, footers, etc. Use > portal_skins/* as an example. Thanks. Tom. From tom at aragne.com Thu Mar 4 15:13:54 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Thu Mar 4 15:03:09 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone info References: <00c101c40171$280c3f40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <2m1xo8c126.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <00c201c40225$3a940080$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> >> I'm a little bit lost in Plone, but can somebody point me to a >> document where I can find out about the folliowing: >> >> 1) Add a 'metadata' property to some of the documents. > > Like, e.g. "interview date"? :-) yup > This seems to be a more a zope than plone question, and I don't know > how to do it. > >> 2) How to create an index_html page with the whole plone framework >> (ie navigation, header, footer, etc), but in which I can use some >> page template code to iterate over a python script. All I need to >> know is what I've to do to get some custom content (in this case an >> iteration over a python script) on a page (eg index_html) with the >> plone layout. > > This is easy, ish. And I've already done it for /epc/interviews/. > What I did was (1) download the plone 1.0.5 source (2) in the ZMI > upload CMFPlone/skins/plone_forms/folder_listing.pt to > /epc/interviews/index_html (3) hack at this a bit. ha... but I'm coming from the ZMI programming, so I look at it in another way. I've already code to provide what I want, but I didn't had the knowledge about the plone layout issues. >> It's probably easy, but I'm unable to find the right documentation >> and this costs too much of my time. I hope there are some Plone >> addicts which can point me directly to the right direction. > > I'm planning on staying up as long as it takes tonight to get the site > ready for public consumption, and suspect #plone on freenode is going > to be on the receiving end of a lot of questions... > > Cheers, > mwh From jeremiannika at comcast.net Thu Mar 4 18:06:28 2004 From: jeremiannika at comcast.net (Jeremiah Foster) Date: Thu Mar 4 18:05:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Webite woes] Message-ID: <4047B674.3010901@comcast.net> Hey there, Whichever way the site is to be structured, it is clear that the work flow ought to be structured; 1. Goals need to be set 2. Deadlines firmly established 3. Specific tasks ought to be assigned 4. Deliverables defined 5. Execute on deliverables This straight forward approach may effectuate faster development time. It seems the team is semi-mired in a tools, content, style, discussion when these types of dialogs are better suited to when deadlines are not so near. Discussion on high level issues is more appropriate to the planning stage and this seems like the development stage. Perhaps if we prioritize according to Jacob's outline, use the old site as a template for the new site, and share out the content development amongst team members, that might be a productive approach. If there is time after the site is up and functional, then we can either build out functionality or modify the structural framework. Sincerely, - Jeremiah // Pythonian -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: Jeremiah Foster Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Webite woes Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 18:55:17 -0500 Size: 1574 Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040304/515b3cf2/EuroPythonWebitewoes.mht From bea at webwitches.com Fri Mar 5 03:08:26 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Fri Mar 5 03:06:02 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] conference organisation and web site Message-ID: <1078474106.421.98.camel@ogg> Hi all I am aware of the fact that all the advice is well-meant but I would like to clarify the picture here. The people working on the conference and/or site are not a bunch of chaotic wasters and making meta-comments on how it should be run would not solve any problems even if there were some. The team is not discussing, the team is producing. Every one else is discussing. The public picture is therefore rather slanted. We are running slightly late on a self-imposed deadline, we have spent and are spending many hours on getting the site ready, while others are getting together more information to put on the site. The site requires a good bit of missing content from the local suspects and some technical fixes from the rest, in order for the registration and accommodation to work. Yes, it would have been nice to have all the comments 6 weeks ago when we asked for them, but they didn't come. Now we get them, now we make the site. Some comments will be taken on board, others won't. As always: #europython. see you there bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From lists at simplistix.co.uk Fri Mar 5 05:12:15 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Fri Mar 5 05:12:22 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk> Michael Hudson wrote: > What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good > argument :-) Data privacy? Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From bea at webwitches.com Fri Mar 5 05:23:31 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Fri Mar 5 05:21:11 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Web site wonderings In-Reply-To: <4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk> References: <200403012219.15894.jacob@strakt.com> <404436F2.3060500@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021052.i22Aq9jx021058@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2moerffob3.fsf@starship.python.net> <40449051.1070008@infrae.com> <404497B1.6080501@ita.chalmers.se> <2meksbe28v.fsf@starship.python.net> <4044A30D.1060305@ita.chalmers.se> <4044A33D.5000606@ita.chalmers.se> <200403021525.i22FPEIa022054@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <2m7jy3dzxv.fsf@starship.python.net> <200403021612.i22GC1Ji022168@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <4045A98B.3070606@simplistix.co.uk> <2mishmcfob.fsf@starship.python.net> <4046EC74.3080302@simplistix.co.uk> <2m65dkc1do.fsf@starship.python.net> <4048527F.4010404@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <1078482211.417.120.camel@ogg> On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 11:12, Chris Withers wrote: > Michael Hudson wrote: > > > What would the advantage of SSLing anything else be? (this is a good > > argument :-) > > Data privacy? That doesn't really fit the idea of letting people share rooms over a wiki and not wanting to remember passwords, does it? That is pretty much as un-private as you can get. I think that this is a philosophical discussion more than anything else. bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From faassen at infrae.com Fri Mar 5 09:46:50 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri Mar 5 09:44:24 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website constructive feedback Message-ID: <404892DA.6000803@infrae.com> Hi there, This mail is intended to be constructive feedback on the website, triggered by a question from Michael on the IRC #europython channel. If any of these suggestions are considered not to be constructive, please ignore them. :) * sidebar to the right: upcoming events as it stands now keeps striking me as news items. Perhaps this problem will decrease once there are more actual news items, pushing 'upcoming events' to the bottom. * sidebar to the right: lose the calendar. It waste space and if it does something beyond show today's date I don't know what it is. :) I can already look up today's date in various other ways, and even if we want to present today's date on the site, we can do this in text format. * the screen is rather squished together due to the two sidebars. If there were more horizontal space, we'd be able to see more text, and have to scroll less. * the side in inside out. When I go to the site, I want to see the latest news, events related to the conference, and I want to see information about europython 2004. There needs to be information on the homepage about: * registering (even if this is not possible yet, it needs to state that it will be soon in that case) * submitting a talk * submitting a refereed paper If then I'm interested in the general EuroPython origanization I should follow a link lower in. This is currently hidden away until I click either in navigation or in the tabs. * the tabs are a really weird way of navigation. They don't seem to be context dependent, and 'More info' brings me to the same page every time. I don't see how this tab add any value. 'Talks' currently seems to be broken. In general the tab navigation seems pretty odd. I am expecting multiple views on a particular object or subsite, but instead they seem to be links to particular places in the site. * the navigation pane is odd. I jump around strangely in it when I click on tabs, and if I click the top one I end up somewhere in the middle. In addition if I click down from top to bottom I go through: * a page about attending. This is fine, except there should be concrete information about how to register (or if not possible yet, that this is so) * an 'events' folder. This folder isn't done yet, and basically replicates the events I can access through the sidebar. It's confusing this is the second navigation option. I'm interested about: * how to register * what talks there are * the location * how I submit a talk * a 'news' folder. The same story here. It's unfinished, it claims there are no news items, and I can already get to this using the sidebar and using the tab at the top. * press releases. As far down to the bottom as possible. Normal people don't read press release archives first. :) * sessions -- this should move up. Apparently sessions and its sub entry 'talks' show almost but not quite the same thing. The outer one adds a mysterious 'browse' tab that I can click and that gives me mysterious information. * sponsors: further down to the bottom; most people won't be sponsors and don't want to know about sponsors before they hear about sprints. * sprints -- move this up to near the sessions, as it's a 'conference event'. In general, make it very clear that the 'call for papers' is *different* from the 'call for talks'. The refereed paper track is actually interesting to *less* people than the 'call for talks'. This needs to very clear. People who want to submit a talk to a track don't need to distracted by stuff about call for papers, lest they confuse the two. Regards, Martijn From faassen at infrae.com Fri Mar 5 12:09:41 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri Mar 5 12:07:16 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: website constructive feedback In-Reply-To: References: <404892DA.6000803@infrae.com> Message-ID: <4048B455.9080900@infrae.com> Michael Hudson wrote: [calendar] > Well, yes, it does more than that. Note sure it's worth the space it > takes, though. The point is I don't know what it does, and I'm the newbie user that's therefore not going to use it. :) >>This is currently hidden away until I click either in navigation or in >>the tabs. > > My take on this is that we should redirect (HTTP 301 style) from / to > /conferences/epc2004/. If that works as a quick fix that's good. It's not going to make navigation easier though. >>* the tabs are a really weird way of navigation. They don't seem to be >> context dependent, > > > They're not meant to be. Peculiar use of tabs, then. :) >> and 'More info' brings me to the same page every time. > > > Yes, it probably isn't too cleverly named. Definitely not, I don't expect 'More info' gets me to the home page of the current conference. :) [snip] >> In general the tab navigation seems pretty odd. I am expecting >> multiple views on a particular object or subsite, but instead they >> seem to be links to particular places in the site. > > I think you may have spent too long staring at the ZMI :-) Actually plone uses this metaphor itself. It's the original tab metaphor as far as I understand. These days tabs are also used for a kind of multi-document-interface, like in Mozilla. Here's a fun page about tabs: http://digilander.libero.it/chiediloapippo/Engineering/iarchitect/tabs.htm The top level tabs seem to be redundant anyway. >>* the navigation pane is odd. I jump around strangely in it when I >> click on tabs, and if I click the top one I end up somewhere in the >> middle. In addition if I click down from top to bottom I go through: >> >> * a page about attending. This is fine, except there should be >> concrete information about how to register (or if not possible >> yet, that this is so) > > > Uh, isn't that on this page? Yeah, at the very bottom if I read all the text. There should be something on the top in big letters stating "registration will open 15 march". It shouldn't talk about refereed paper proposals or submission of talks at all, and it starts with this right at the top. This is not the page about this. It's about me wanting to go to the conference. >> * an 'events' folder. This folder isn't done yet, and basically >> replicates the events I can access through the sidebar. > > We're probably going to hide it... Good. >> It's confusing this is the second navigation option. I'm >> interested about: >> >> * how to register >> >> * what talks there are >> >> * the location >> >> * how I submit a talk > > > That's what the idea of the tabs across the top is. The Welcome tab doesn't say anything about this; it goes to a very general page about EuroPython. The news tab doesn't either. Nor does the search tab. 'More info' then brings me to the attending page, though not actually to the EPC root page itself. Finally the 'talks' tab, while interesting in intent gives me an error. The tabs at the top are not doing their job. >> * a 'news' folder. The same story here. It's unfinished, it claims >> there are no news items, and I can already get to this using the >> sidebar and using the tab at the top. > > > This should probably be hidden too. Agreed. >> * press releases. As far down to the bottom as possible. Normal >> people don't read press release archives first. :) >> >> * sessions -- this should move up. Apparently sessions and its sub >> entry 'talks' show almost but not quite the same thing. The outer >> one adds a mysterious 'browse' tab that I can click and that >> gives me mysterious information. > > >> * sponsors: further down to the bottom; most people won't be >> sponsors and don't want to know about sponsors before they hear >> about sprints. >> >> * sprints -- move this up to near the sessions, as it's a >> 'conference event'. >> >>In general, make it very clear that the 'call for papers' is >>*different* from the 'call for talks'. > > > Done, I think? > Um, not really: The 'homepage' for EPC 2004 (which I can only go to if I navigate into it, tabs don't bring me there) says: Call for Papers And then goes on talkinga bout a call for participation, links there. It explains there are two kinds, but under the heading of 'call for papers'? Then the link to the press release on call for participation: Mostly talks about the non refereed tracks, though mentions the refereed track first. This page seems mostly okay. Also I get a weird nesting effect in the sidebar, and probably the URLs, I can click so I get this: http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/conferences/epc2004/pressreleases/call_for_participation_html with a pretty peculiar sidebar. Again, I expect answers to my questions straight away when I get to the site: * how much it costs and how to register. * what the conference and the talks are about. * the location, where do I need to go. * how I submit a talk (and learn there I can also submit a refereed paper) I'm not getting answers to some of these questions without significant amounts of random clicking around. This is wrong. I'll try to write something soon which helps here, though Infrae is keeping me rather overly busy at the moment.. >>The refereed paper track is actually interesting to *less* people >>than the 'call for talks'. This needs to very clear. People who want >>to submit a talk to a track don't need to distracted by stuff about >>call for papers, lest they confuse the two. > > We need pages that detail how you register for the con, what's > involved in submitting a talk, etc. They're not there yet. Right, that will certainly help. :) Regards, Martijn From faassen at infrae.com Fri Mar 5 17:46:53 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Fri Mar 5 17:44:30 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website new feedback :) Message-ID: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com> Hi there, Bea, of course I didn't hear a thing about me being right about the tabs. :) Anyway, the tabs make navigation is a lot easier now. Some feedback based on what I can see now. Sorry this is so incremental, but of course I work this out as I go along: 'Welcome' This needs to be one page with the important facts, with what where when how much, how to join, how to help. It doesn't have everything yet. 'How to attend': Perhaps call this 'attending'. We need to have stand out more that registration is not open at this point, but will open soon, under its own heading. Preferably at the top of the page, not at the bottom like it is now. Registration itself also needs to be at the top of the page, with more details aobut when, where and how much later on. 'How to register for talks' A subtly confusing title. You register to *give* talks, not to attend talks. The link to actually submit a talk needs to be higher up, so it doesn't scroll down off the page and I don't have to wade through text. Also I think the conference *contents* needs to come first. So, perhaps call this 'talks', not registering for talks, and fill the contents with what tracks there are (already there) and later on the famous talk matrix. Right now need to give prominence to how to submit a talk, but it's fairly natural for a person who wants to do so to click on 'talks' too. 'How to submit refereed papers' I don't think this needs it own tab entry. I'd also shorten this to 'refereed papers' so that if you keep it as a tab this can turn into a list of the papers later on, once they're submitted. 'Where does it happen' Doesn't need its own entry as linked from 'attending', as long as the location is in the sidebar. Once ordered folder works I assume we can also reorder the navigation sidebar to similar system as well. Could be shortened to 'location'. In general, names in the tabs should be the same as those in the sidebar. I'll see whether I can write/edit/rewrite at least some of these pages this weekend, but I'm not promising anything... Regards, Martijn From bea at webwitches.com Sat Mar 6 03:49:45 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Sat Mar 6 03:47:14 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website new feedback :) In-Reply-To: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com> References: <4049035D.7090403@infrae.com> Message-ID: <1078562985.1062.167.camel@ogg> On Fri, 2004-03-05 at 23:46, Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > Bea, of course I didn't hear a thing about me being right about the tabs. :) dammit. I _knew_ you'd read through the backlog ;) [snip] > I'll see whether I can write/edit/rewrite at least some of these pages > this weekend, but I'm not promising anything... Please do. You are most welcome :) Thank! bea -- "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. B?atrice Fontaine Fabriksgatan 7 - SE- 96131 Boden Tel + 46 921 150 45 - GSM + 46 70 640 2773 E-mail : bea@webwitches.com - URL: www.webwitches.com From jacob at strakt.com Sat Mar 6 18:32:54 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Sat Mar 6 18:32:59 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment Message-ID: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588 From tismer at stackless.com Sat Mar 6 22:22:34 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Sat Mar 6 22:22:37 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment In-Reply-To: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> Jacob Hall?n wrote: > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588 Which exceptionally gifted human being did that? impressed-ly -- chris -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From lac at strakt.com Sat Mar 6 22:38:52 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Sat Mar 6 22:39:09 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment In-Reply-To: Message from Christian Tismer of "Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100." <404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> <404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> Message-ID: <200403070338.i273cqpp005112@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100, Christian Tismer writes: >Jacob Hall?n wrote: > >> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb >253e7e2932949588 > >Which exceptionally gifted human being did that? > >impressed-ly -- chris > >-- >Christian Tismer :^) The cut out parts of the Bayern Tapestry are here: http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php as part of the 'Historic Tale Construction Kit'. authors are Karnebogen and Ingvblvth -- whose pictures you can see on that page. Jacob made the story though, and assembled the bits. Laura Creighton ps I say we should send it to comp.lang.python, and comp.lang.python.announce pps yes we know about the typo on page one. but --heh-- so has http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php !! So we could lie and say we made an error to look folksy, but it would be a lie ... From bea at webwitches.com Sun Mar 7 07:30:08 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Sun Mar 7 07:27:30 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Faassen's cooking recipee for website improvements Message-ID: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg> ... is being currently adapted and implemented by me because most of it made sense, it being Martijn and all :) Those interested and not otherwise engaged should look around the site to see if it makes sense to them, too. see you on #europython bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From tom at aragne.com Sun Mar 7 14:12:40 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Sun Mar 7 14:11:34 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com><404A957A.1000202@stackless.com> <200403070338.i273cqpp005112@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <004601c40479$88aeaf80$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Nicely done! Tom Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Sun, 07 Mar 2004 04:22:34 +0100, Christian Tismer > writes: >> Jacob Hall?n wrote: >> >>> http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb >>> 253e7e2932949588 >> >> Which exceptionally gifted human being did that? >> >> impressed-ly -- chris >> >> -- >> Christian Tismer :^) > > > The cut out parts of the Bayern Tapestry are here: > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php > > as part of the 'Historic Tale Construction Kit'. > > authors are Karnebogen and Ingvblvth -- whose pictures you can see on > that page. > > Jacob made the story though, and assembled the bits. > > Laura Creighton > > ps > > I say we should send it to comp.lang.python, and > comp.lang.python.announce > > pps > > yes we know about the typo on page one. but --heh-- so has > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php !! So we could lie > and say we made an error to look folksy, but it would be a lie ... > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From tom at aragne.com Sun Mar 7 16:17:36 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Sun Mar 7 16:06:44 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews References: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg> Message-ID: <006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, I'm eager to start with the interviews again and I think it is time to start with them. Does somebody has an idea of persons he/she wants me to interview. Regards, Tom. From js at aixtraware.de Mon Mar 8 05:38:43 2004 From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Mon Mar 8 05:38:41 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join Message-ID: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> hi, in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference, it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged in, which in turn requires to join the site. Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for the conference. So I suggest the following: on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this: support the idea of an European Python conference and express your interest in the EPC 2004 in G?teborg by joining this site as a member. It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address. By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference, also you as a member have the following advantages: - personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit - easier registration process - express your personal preferences for example for food - book a room in a cheap accomodation - easier to submit talks more shuggar for joining can be added... just my 2 ec -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en Joachim Schmitz ...................................................................... AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 From faassen at infrae.com Mon Mar 8 07:33:16 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon Mar 8 07:30:28 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Interviews In-Reply-To: <006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <1078662608.2729.36.camel@ogg> <006601c40489$9f023850$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <404C680C.5070002@infrae.com> Tom Deprez wrote: > I'm eager to start with the interviews again and I think it is time > to start with them. Does somebody has an idea of persons he/she wants > me to interview. The keynote speakers; Guido and Mark Shuttleworth. It would probably be a good idea for both of them to send the list of interview questions proposed around to this list a few times so people can comment. I'm sure for instance Steve may be able to come up with interesting leading questions for schooltool for Mark. :) Regards, Martijn From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 8 07:34:36 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 8 07:34:48 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join In-Reply-To: Message from Joachim Schmitz of "Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100." <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes: >hi, > >in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference,= >20 >it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be=20 >butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged= >20 >in, which in turn requires to join the site. > >Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the=20 >web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from=20 >doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for= >20 >the conference. > >So I suggest the following: > >on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this: > >support the idea of an European Python conference and express your=20 >interest in the EPC 2004 in G=F6teborg by joining this site as a member.= >20 >It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address. is it? I thought you had to have a password as well. >By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference,=20 >also you as a member have the following advantages: > >- personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit >- easier registration process >- express your personal preferences for example for food >- book a room in a cheap accomodation >- easier to submit talks > >more shuggar for joining can be added... > > >just my 2 ec > > > >--=20 >Mit freundlichen Gr=FC=DFen Joachim Schmit >= >z >...................................................................... >AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 >H=FCsgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 > >_______________________________________________ >EuroPython mailing list >EuroPython@python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython This is fine by me as long as there is another option. 'All I want to do is register to attend the conference' click. for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of involvement with the website. Laura From mwh at python.net Mon Mar 8 07:50:27 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon Mar 8 07:50:30 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment In-Reply-To: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Jacob_Hall=E9n's_message_of?= "Sun, 7 Mar 2004 00:32:54 +0100") References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net> Jacob Hall?n writes: > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb253e7e2932949588 Cool! We must find some way of linking to this from the website... Cheers, mwh -- MAN: How can I tell that the past isn't a fiction designed to account for the discrepancy between my immediate physical sensations and my state of mind? -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12 From faassen at infrae.com Mon Mar 8 08:05:32 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon Mar 8 08:05:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join In-Reply-To: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <404C6F9C.5090100@infrae.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > 'All I want to do is register to attend the conference' click. > for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of > involvement with the website. I agree that this minimal use case should be accomplished. Joachim, if you haven't already, please check out the use cases I posted the other day? Regards, Martijn From js at aixtraware.de Mon Mar 8 08:12:33 2004 From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Mon Mar 8 08:12:31 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join In-Reply-To: <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> <200403081234.i28CYbPj009629@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <404C7141.40007@aixtraware.de> Laura Creighton said the following on 03/08/04 13:34: > In a message of Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:38:43 +0100, Joachim Schmitz writes: >>It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address. > > > is it? I thought you had to have a password as well. not in the current join form, but we can autogenerate a password, the member can change this later in his memberarea if he wishes. > This is fine by me as long as there is another option. > > 'All I want to do is register to attend the conference' click. > for people who want to attend, but don't want a high level of > involvement with the website. > I actually want call joining a high involvement, it is more expressing your interest in EPC and if you do it (the joining) at a early date, you can do the registration stuff later more easely and have the options to specify your preferences. but yes we also will have the plain registration button, where you can register and pay without joining. but then you cannot: - reserve a room - specify your food preferences - more to come ... -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en Joachim Schmitz ...................................................................... AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 8 08:23:23 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 8 08:23:30 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] A flash story, for your entertainment In-Reply-To: <2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <200403070032.54147.jacob@strakt.com> <2m1xo31p0s.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200403081423.23814.jacob@strakt.com> On m?ndag 8 mars 2004 13.50, Michael Hudson wrote: > Jacob Hall?n writes: > > http://www.adgame-wonderland.de/type/bayeux.php?id=0a66e17d3ccde15bdecb25 > >3e7e2932949588 > > Cool! We must find some way of linking to this from the website... I have made screenshots of all the pages and corrected the numerous mistakes. We can now put the story on our own website. Jacob From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 8 08:28:01 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 8 08:28:07 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] to join or not to join In-Reply-To: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> References: <404C4D33.3000304@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <200403081428.01986.jacob@strakt.com> On m?ndag 8 mars 2004 11.38, Joachim Schmitz wrote: > hi, > > in the process of developing the workflow for the EuroPython conference, > it became very obvious, that for the internal processing, it would be > butthe best solution to allow any entering of data requires to be logged > in, which in turn requires to join the site. > > Even though the technical benefit is obvious - at least for the > web-team, there is some discussion about, if this prevents people from > doing actions on the site, like submitting talks or even registering for > the conference. > > So I suggest the following: > > on the main page of the EPC-site there is something like this: > > support the idea of an European Python conference and express your > interest in the EPC 2004 in G?teborg by joining this site as a member. > It is as easy as entering your fullname and email address. > By this you can help us (the organizers) to make a better conference, > also you as a member have the following advantages: > > - personalized news: what is new on the site since your last visit > - easier registration process > - express your personal preferences for example for food > - book a room in a cheap accomodation > - easier to submit talks > > more sugar for joining can be added... This is ok by me, as long as it is true. If you have to join the site in order to register, we must say so explicitly, and have language explaining that this helps us in handling their requests. Jacob From lists at simplistix.co.uk Tue Mar 9 04:20:59 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Tue Mar 9 04:21:28 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Urm? Message-ID: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I want to know and can't find out I thought I'd ask here: 1. When can I book to go to the conference? When does the early-bird period start and end? How much is it and where do I sign up? 2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of the conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport? 2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are there discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any travel/accomodation subsidy for speakers? I would have thought these are the more common questions people come to the website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the space on the front page, rather than a honking great gif, which is cute but doesn't help me at all... cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From mwh at python.net Tue Mar 9 05:24:21 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 9 05:24:24 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Urm? In-Reply-To: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> (Chris Withers's message of "Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:20:59 +0000") References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <2mr7w2z5be.fsf@starship.python.net> Chris Withers writes: > This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I want > to know and can't find out I thought I'd ask here: > > 1. When can I book to go to the conference? We're currently aiming for next monday, i.e. the 15th. > When does the early-bird period start and end? Well, it starts when it starts (see above) and is currently finishing on the first of May. There's no hurry. > How much is it Early bird reg is 160 euro. > and where do I sign up? On the website, when we've finished it :-) > 2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of > the conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport? Wait a day or two, and all this will be explained in beautiful clarity on the website. It's also been discussed on this list... > 2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are > there discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any > travel/accomodation subsidy for speakers? Ditto. > I would have thought these are the more common questions people come > to the website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the > space on the front page, rather than a honking great gif, which is > cute but doesn't help me at all... Patience! Please note that what's currently at www.europython.org is going to be entirely replaced, pretty soon (we hope). Cheers, mwh -- I don't have any special knowledge of all this. In fact, I made all the above up, in the hope that it corresponds to reality. -- Mark Carroll, ucam.chat From tom at aragne.com Tue Mar 9 13:10:44 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue Mar 9 13:13:29 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Urm? References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment? The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so it's normal you don't find that kind of information. Tom. Chris Withers wrote: > This isn't meant to add petrol to any website flames, but since I > want to know and can't find out I thought I'd ask here: > > 1. When can I book to go to the conference? When does the early-bird > period > start and end? How much is it and where do I sign up? > > 2. Where can I stay? What are the nearest places to the location of > the conference at varying costs? Where's the nearest airport? > > 2. How do I find out about giving a presentation at Europython? Are > there discounted attendance rates for speakers? Is there any > travel/accomodation subsidy for speakers? > > I would have thought these are the more common questions people come > to the website with, so I'm suprised there isn't more made of the > space on the front page, rather than a honking great gif, which is > cute but doesn't help me at all... > > cheers, > > Chris From lists at simplistix.co.uk Wed Mar 10 08:46:42 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Wed Mar 10 08:46:48 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Urm? In-Reply-To: <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk> Tom Deprez wrote: > I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment? > The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so > it's normal you don't find that kind of information. And that's a GOOD thing? ;-) Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From faassen at infrae.com Wed Mar 10 09:41:15 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed Mar 10 09:38:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Urm? In-Reply-To: <404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk> References: <404D8C7B.2020707@simplistix.co.uk> <010101c40603$c294d9a0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <404F1C42.1070907@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <404F290B.2030707@infrae.com> Chris Withers wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >> I'm not sure, but to which site are you looking at the moment? >> The new site on which the people are working, isn't online yet... so >> it's normal you don't find that kind of information. > > > And that's a GOOD thing? ;-) Did he say it was a good thing? Obviously the new site is being worked on by us in order to get this information online. Want to contribute, please contact them on irc.freenode.net on the #europython channel. Regards, Martijn From bh at udev.org Wed Mar 10 10:44:04 2004 From: bh at udev.org (Henrion Benjamin) Date: Wed Mar 10 10:49:23 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? Message-ID: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> Hello, I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a conference (like Europython)? Will the next website use Plone? -- Benjamin Henrion http://bh.udev.org From lac at strakt.com Wed Mar 10 10:52:46 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Wed Mar 10 10:53:00 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: Message from Henrion Benjamin of "Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100." <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> Message-ID: <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100, Henrion Benjamin writes: >Hello, > >I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a >conference (like Europython)? > >Will the next website use Plone? Yes. > >-- >Benjamin Henrion >http://bh.udev.org Laura From faassen at infrae.com Wed Mar 10 11:53:38 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Wed Mar 10 11:50:32 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:44:04 +0100, Henrion Benjamin writes: > >>Hello, >> >>I wanted to know if Plone could be used to make a workflow to organise a >>conference (like Europython)? >> >>Will the next website use Plone? > > > Yes. > That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the aim of the current project. Regards, Martijn From lists at simplistix.co.uk Thu Mar 11 06:04:25 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Thu Mar 11 06:04:59 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> Message-ID: <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> Martijn Faassen wrote: > That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this > project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the > aim of the current project. For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference management kit? cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From lac at strakt.com Thu Mar 11 07:05:12 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu Mar 11 07:05:24 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: Message from Chris Withers of "Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT." <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> Message-ID: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT, Chris Withers writes: >Martijn Faassen wrote: > >> That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn this > >> project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not the >> aim of the current project. > >For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference manageme >nt kit? > >cheers, > >Chris Yes. (I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors. Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said _it's not ready yet_.) I appreciate the fact that things have slipped 2 weeks has left you with the impression that we don't know what the hell we are doing, but the fact of the matter is that this particular conference team has over 20 years of experience running things. Our problem is that we know our problem domain too well, not too little. And because I am being a complete jerk in not allowing things to launch 'because they are good enough for an amateur conference'. I refuse to compromise on my standards, which makes for more work that takes longer, but be a tad more patient and I am sure you will like the result. Laura Creighton (off to write more content) Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant! Why don't you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?! Complaining is _easy_. From lac at strakt.com Thu Mar 11 08:01:16 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu Mar 11 08:01:20 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] hey Henrion Benjamin Message-ID: <200403111301.i2BD1GZd019918@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> can you tell your domain that I am not a jerk? My mail to you bounces. This is the Postfix program at host bug.udev.org. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The Postfix program : host mail.bh.udev.org[213.186.46.45] said: 553 sorry, that domain isn't in my list of allowed rcpthosts (#5.7.1) ----- thanks very much, Laura From jacob at strakt.com Thu Mar 11 19:47:37 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Thu Mar 11 19:47:42 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website Message-ID: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some things that need dealing with, before we can go public. Jacob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am imagining that I am somebody who would like to submit a refereed paper. I look at the website, find general information, find the refereed track on the tab at the top. I read all the stuff and click on the link to the talk submission page. * (Here I would like to be sent to the right place on the page, but I don't know how to express that.) I click on "submit talk". After a little bit of thinking I figure out that I have to register. Not ideal, but workable. Once I have registered, I can klick a button to log in. An extra step, but still fairly ok. * (It would be better if I automatically logged in.) When I click on the login button, I am sent to a page that says "You are now logged in" and "Items published since your last login". * Now I am totally lost -- I was trying to submit an abstract for a talk. Why am I getting "Items pubished since my last login"? I haven't even logged in before! * This needs to be fixed. Can't you use server side session handling, a cookie, or some URL mangling to store the information about where the user was trying to go? Anyway, after having found my way back to the submissions page, I want to enter my abstract. I am now faced with a form which says "talk title", "short description", "Long description", etc. * There is no mention of the abstract on this page. Does it go in the short or the long description? I'd like to format this page so it suits refereed papers, which are different from normal talks. Can I? * I am also confused about the "type of talk" selection box. I know that I selected "refereed paper", so why do I have to enter this information again? * Why do I get the options 15, 30, 45 and 90 minutes? 90 minutes is an option only for a tutorial, and I thought we decided to have either 30 or 60 minutes as talk lengths. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From the perspective of other visitors on the site, there are some more things that I would like to see changed: * A tutorial is by default 90 minutes, and should only have that option. It should also have the "type of talk" set to "tutorial" with no other options. * Regular talks can be 30 or 60 minutes. Those should be the only options. * I still find the "navigation" box to be more harm than help. It gives different names to the tabs that are found along the top, it shows strange listings of events, no news under Europython 2004 (because the news are stored elsewhere) and show a raw directory structure, that is of no use to the visitor. Can't we get rid of this box? * When you click the "Welcome" tab along the top, you come to a page which has a box along the left side with a caption "Related". This is very confusing. Can we make it go away? Jacob Hall?n From stuart at stuartbishop.net Fri Mar 12 00:10:44 2004 From: stuart at stuartbishop.net (Stuart Bishop) Date: Fri Mar 12 00:11:11 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <9D7E7562-73E3-11D8-87C9-000A95A06FC6@stuartbishop.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 11/03/2004, at 11:05 PM, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Thu, 11 Mar 2004 11:04:25 GMT, Chris Withers writes: >> Martijn Faassen wrote: >> >>> That said, I expect significant work would need to be done to turn >>> this >> >>> project into a generic ConferencePlone or something like that. Not >>> the >>> aim of the current project. >> >> For next year, have you guys though about ReportLab's conference >> manageme > > (I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the > principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors. > Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said > _it's not ready yet_.) And if it is still not ready, the 2nd generation of our system should be complete. http://commongroundconferences.com/ :-) > Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant! Why don't > you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?! > Complaining is _easy_. And fun too ;-) - -- Stuart (Australia's Europython 2004 contingent) - -- Stuart Bishop http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQFAUUZYAfqZj7rGN0oRAlOgAKCG4ZLtg/GxfZJqBBf1+p48tw6GhACfc6r1 3Bh6id6LNgsegnPhmMOR3ow= =rZ+g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From lists at simplistix.co.uk Fri Mar 12 02:47:41 2004 From: lists at simplistix.co.uk (Chris Withers) Date: Fri Mar 12 02:47:50 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] managing a conference organisation through Plone? In-Reply-To: <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <20040310154404.GA21961@localhost> <200403101552.i2AFqkNs016881@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <404F4812.2010908@infrae.com> <405047B9.2080605@simplistix.co.uk> <200403111205.i2BC5C0H019532@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <40516B1D.5090802@simplistix.co.uk> Laura Creighton wrote: > (I am one of the organisers of the conference, and one of the > principal investors in Reportlab, and on its board of directors. > Andy was given every opportunity to showcase this _now_ but he said > _it's not ready yet_.) That's why I said next year ;-) > I appreciate the fact that things have slipped 2 weeks has left > you with the impression that we don't know what the hell we > are doing, but the fact of the matter is that this particular > conference team has over 20 years of experience running things. Not at all, I'm well aware of how much fun events can be to organise :-S > Hey, your sig says that you are a Zope consultant! Why don't > you show up at #europython at irc.freenode.net and _help_ !?! ...I subscribe to the Fred Brookes view of throwing more people at a project to try and make it finish faster... (that said, if you have any specific technical problems with Zope, do give me a shout) > Complaining is _easy_. ...and what Stuart said ;-) cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk From bea at webwitches.com Fri Mar 12 03:20:48 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Fri Mar 12 03:17:07 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website In-Reply-To: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote: > Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some > things that need dealing with, before we can go public. [snip] Thanks for the forensic walk around the site, Jacob ;) Some of the things you are addressing are indeed Plone defaults that can and should be customised (like where you land when you've joined). Others (like related, news, etc) were set up by those who gave Plone the first try as a sustainable conference website environment,so they should get a last chance to protest before we kill anything. I think that we need dario, michael, joachim, shae, me (and other hopefuls, of course!) and you online at the same time, to iron these last things out. We need you to sit in - or at least by ;) - to say: "yes, that's the way I want it" after each item has been dealt with. Otherwise we will add another confirmation phase behind it, which is a waste of time, imho. Does that appeal to you? Because then I would suggest that all those involved mention their least available times between now and Monday evening and we make a deal to sit together for 2-3 hours, which is all it should take. OK with all those who feel personally addressed by the question? shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on Saturday and Sunday. bea -- Beatrice Fontaine From bea at webwitches.com Fri Mar 12 03:52:02 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Fri Mar 12 03:48:25 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website In-Reply-To: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost> On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote: > Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are some > things that need dealing with, before we can go public. [snip] http://z3u.com/ep2004/WebWerkersLog I made a job list of jacob's message and included my own comments. see you on #europython! bea -- Beatrice Fontaine From mwh at python.net Fri Mar 12 08:04:03 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Fri Mar 12 08:04:06 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website In-Reply-To: <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost> (Beatrice Fontaine's message of "12 Mar 2004 09:20:48 +0100") References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <2md67itdx8.fsf@starship.python.net> Beatrice Fontaine writes: > shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back > late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on Saturday > and Sunday. My weekend plans are somewhat up in the air, but I'm unlikely to be around for much of it. Cheers, mwh -- You owe the Oracle a star-spangled dunce cap. -- Internet Oracularity Internet Oracularity #1299-08 From jacob at strakt.com Fri Mar 12 10:43:39 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Fri Mar 12 10:43:44 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website In-Reply-To: <1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost> References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> <1079081522.2332.30.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200403121643.39379.jacob@strakt.com> On fredag 12 mars 2004 09.52, Beatrice Fontaine wrote: > On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote: > > Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there are > > some things that need dealing with, before we can go public. > > [snip] > > http://z3u.com/ep2004/WebWerkersLog > > I made a job list of jacob's message and included my own comments. > > > see you on #europython! I added some comments on the Webwerkers page in response to Beas comments. I hope they clarify what I'm after. Jacob From tom at aragne.com Fri Mar 12 13:51:47 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri Mar 12 13:50:52 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Final fixes for the website References: <200403120147.37687.jacob@strakt.com> <1079079648.2331.21.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <009001c40863$166b6ce0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Urgh, sorry, I won't be online much this weekend (family matters). I'll hop in when I'm able to. Don't know if I would be great of help, dough: solving something plonish would probably take me more time than the meeting itself. It's a shame, I haven't been able to help you at all. And perhaps for the better of it, the site is looking nicely. Regards, Tom. Beatrice Fontaine wrote: > On Fri, 2004-03-12 at 01:47, Jacob Hall?n wrote: >> Things are starting to look good on the website, but I think there >> are some things that need dealing with, before we can go public. > > [snip] > > Thanks for the forensic walk around the site, Jacob ;) > > Some of the things you are addressing are indeed Plone defaults that > can > and should be customised (like where you land when you've joined). > Others (like related, news, etc) were set up by those who gave Plone > the first try as a sustainable conference website environment,so they > should > get a last chance to protest before we kill anything. > > I think that we need dario, michael, joachim, shae, me (and other > hopefuls, of course!) and you online at the same time, to iron these > last things out. We need you to sit in - or at least by ;) - to say: > "yes, that's the way I want it" after each item has been dealt with. > Otherwise we will add another confirmation phase behind it, which is a > waste of time, imho. Does that appeal to you? Because then I would > suggest that all those involved mention their least available times > between now and Monday evening and we make a deal to sit together for > 2-3 hours, which is all it should take. > > OK with all those who feel personally addressed by the question? > > shapr/bea are at a yearly meeting from 1700 CET today and will be back > late, but we are both pretty much available any (sane) time on > Saturday > and Sunday. > > > bea From tom at aragne.com Fri Mar 12 17:56:38 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri Mar 12 18:06:02 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Plone site Message-ID: <00c301c40886$ba6b4a90$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, Why am I only able to add a Talks Folder People Folder Plone Conference Person Plone Conference Track Plone Conference Talk item inside the epc2002 & epc2003 folder? Thanks, tom From tom at aragne.com Fri Mar 12 20:04:45 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Fri Mar 12 20:03:46 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Old content to New Message-ID: <00d501c40897$2ee24080$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, I've cleaned up the root of the develop instance as much as I could. All objects inside are needed for survival of the old websites (ie websites of 2003 & 2003), so please don't delete these. Further, I've migrated the 2003 contents to the develop server. I've added links to 2002 & 2003 folders in the epc plone site. Most links work..., unfortunately not all. I know the talks database has been migrated and contains all old talks, we should adjust the code in the 2002/2003 folders so the 'session track/talk' links work again. I need to discuss this with Joachim if possible. (but that something for later) PS. I changed the top 'EuroPython 2004' link to 'EuroPython' since that top link opens the leaves with all conferences. Also, now, when a person enters 'http://europython-develop.zope.nl', he/she will arrive at the page of the current conference. PPS. Be my guest to change my changes/additions. Regards, Tom. From tom at aragne.com Sat Mar 13 04:47:04 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Sat Mar 13 04:53:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze Message-ID: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hmmm, It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze? Regards, Tom. From ivo at amaze.nl Sat Mar 13 05:04:00 2004 From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk) Date: Sat Mar 13 05:03:40 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze In-Reply-To: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hmmm, > > It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other > also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze? > It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously. Someone will need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix the problem right away, but we're working on it. Cheers Ivo > Regards, > Tom. > > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Drs. I.R. van der Wijk -=- Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12 Amaze Internet Services V.O.F. 1017 RC Amsterdam, NL -=- T +31-20-4688336 F +31-20-4688337 Zope/Plone/Content Management W http://www.amaze.nl E info@amaze.nl Open Source Solutions W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl Consultancy PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp From ivo at amaze.nl Sat Mar 13 06:10:43 2004 From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk) Date: Sat Mar 13 06:10:25 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze In-Reply-To: <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl> References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl> Message-ID: <4052EC33.5020908@amaze.nl> Ivo van der Wijk wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: > >> Hmmm, >> >> It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are other >> also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of amaze? >> > > It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously. Someone > will need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix the problem > right away, but we're working on it. > The server is up again. Cheers Ivo -- Drs. I.R. van der Wijk -=- Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12 Amaze Internet Services V.O.F. 1017 RC Amsterdam, NL -=- T +31-20-4688336 F +31-20-4688337 Zope/Plone/Content Management W http://www.amaze.nl E info@amaze.nl Open Source Solutions W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl Consultancy PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp From tom at aragne.com Sat Mar 13 06:22:16 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Sat Mar 13 06:35:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Amaze References: <002201c408e1$1f1bdcc0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <4052DC90.107@amaze.nl> <4052EC33.5020908@amaze.nl> Message-ID: <010701c408ef$6ce30600$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Thanks! Tom; Ivo van der Wijk wrote: > Ivo van der Wijk wrote: >> Tom Deprez wrote: >> >>> Hmmm, >>> >>> It looks like the Amaze server has some problems this morning. Are >>> other also unable to reach both EuroPythons and other sites of >>> amaze? >>> >> >> It appears that one of our hostingservers has died mysteriously. >> Someone will need to go to the colocation facility, so we can't fix >> the problem right away, but we're working on it. >> > > The server is up again. > > Cheers > > Ivo From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 15 08:56:05 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 15 08:56:11 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today Message-ID: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com> Unfortunately, Laura and I will be on a plane to Brussels when the meeting is held today. I hope mwh can take command of the meeting. We need to focus on getting the website online. Any more delays and we have to cancel the refereed paper track. Then we need to start on the registration/room reservation, so that we don't run into time problems with that. Our plan was to open registration/reservations today, and I guess we are not in a position to do that. Cheers Jacob AGENDA A. Introductions, if any B. Information/Decision items C. Progress reports D. Urgent discussion/action items - Getting the website online Needs to get done. Announcements to comp.lang.python.announce to be sent. More announcements to be made. More and better texts from track chairmen. - Registration and room reservation Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the people working with it need? E. Followups F. Other items From mwh at python.net Mon Mar 15 14:27:57 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon Mar 15 14:28:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today In-Reply-To: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Jacob_Hall=E9n's_message_of?= "Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:56:05 +0100") References: <200403151456.05416.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <2m7jxlrjuq.fsf@starship.python.net> Jacob Hall?n writes: > D. Urgent discussion/action items > - Getting the website online > Needs to get done. Announcements to comp.lang.python.announce to be sent. > More announcements to be made. More and better texts from track chairmen. I think we're ready here. Not perfect, but good enough. We agreed a short delay (about 24 hours) before asking amaze to switch. > - Registration and room reservation > Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the > people working with it need? There was some discussion of whether SGS Veckobost??de prefer to deal in rooms or beds for billing purposes (roughly speaking). Cheers, mwh -- While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work. -- C Hacking -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html From tom at aragne.com Tue Mar 16 17:02:01 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Tue Mar 16 17:00:55 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] switch? Message-ID: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and I'll ask Amaze Regards, Tom. From mwh at python.net Wed Mar 17 07:31:12 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed Mar 17 07:31:16 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] switch? In-Reply-To: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> (Tom Deprez's message of "Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:02:01 +0100") References: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <2m7jxjpsdr.fsf@starship.python.net> "Tom Deprez" writes: > Hi, > > Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and > I'll ask Amaze Let's do it! Cheers, mwh -- Never meddle in the affairs of NT. It is slow to boot and quick to crash. -- Stephen Harris -- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 17 14:08:59 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 17 14:08:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] switch? References: <019b01c40ba2$50adee40$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <2m7jxjpsdr.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <00ba01c40c53$4ffac570$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Okay, Request has been sent. Regards, Tom. Michael Hudson wrote: > "Tom Deprez" writes: > >> Hi, >> >> Are we ready to switch the website instances? If so, let me know and >> I'll ask Amaze > > Let's do it! > > Cheers, > mwh From faassen at infrae.com Thu Mar 18 06:01:14 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Thu Mar 18 05:57:04 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] problem with switching sites Message-ID: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com> Hi there, Ivo just now tried to switch (he was on #europython irc) but the new site turned out to be full of broken links, still pointing to places like this: http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/venue which after the switch was already broken. Since nobody who knew much about the site was there on irc, we asked him to switch it back again. Something is odd with virtual hosting, presumably. Anybody have any idea? Regards, Martijn From lac at strakt.com Thu Mar 18 08:57:45 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu Mar 18 08:57:49 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms. Message-ID: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where? Laura From jacob at strakt.com Thu Mar 18 09:03:30 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Thu Mar 18 09:03:50 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms. In-Reply-To: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote: > Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where? The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until we know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc. Jacob From lac at strakt.com Thu Mar 18 09:18:39 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu Mar 18 09:19:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms. In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?= of "Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100." <200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100, Jacob Hall?n writes: >On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote: >> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where? > >The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until > we >know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc. > >Jacob Correct, but however we assign them, we will end up wanting to post a schedule outside the doors. These 'things to post schedules on' -- do they provide them, or do we? also bulletin boards for announcements, and the like. Laura From jacob at strakt.com Thu Mar 18 09:50:49 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Thu Mar 18 09:51:09 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] signs for outside of the rooms. In-Reply-To: <200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403181357.i2IDvjlT009017@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> <200403181503.30602.jacob@strakt.com> <200403181418.i2IEIdPu009074@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403181550.49451.jacob@strakt.com> On torsdag 18 mars 2004 15.18, Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:03:30 +0100, Jacob Hall?n writes: > >On torsdag 18 mars 2004 14.57, Laura Creighton wrote: > >> Does Chalmers supply them, so we can list what is going on where? > > > >The rooms are clearly named, but we will not assign things to rooms until > > we > >know how many people are coming, what talks we will have etc. > > > >Jacob > > Correct, but however we assign them, we will end up wanting to > post a schedule outside the doors. These 'things to post schedules > on' -- do they provide them, or do we? also bulletin boards for > announcements, and the like. There are no suitable boards or signs outside the doors. Taping schedules to doors and walls will work well though. For central bulletin boards, there are several bords avaliable. Since school is out, there is no problem in clearing them. Also, there are movable screens somewhere in the building. Borrowing a few of these should not pose a problem either. Jacob From stuart.b at commonground.com.au Thu Mar 18 22:49:06 2004 From: stuart.b at commonground.com.au (Stuart Bishop) Date: Thu Mar 18 22:49:40 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] problem with switching sites In-Reply-To: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com> References: <4059817A.7070008@infrae.com> Message-ID: <5ED1A9F9-7958-11D8-890A-000A95A06FC6@commonground.com.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 18/03/2004, at 10:01 PM, Martijn Faassen wrote: > Hi there, > > Ivo just now tried to switch (he was on #europython irc) but the new > site turned out to be full of broken links, still pointing to places > like this: > > http://europython-develop.zope.nl/epc/conferences/epc2004/venue > > which after the switch was already broken. > > Since nobody who knew much about the site was there on irc, we asked > him to switch it back again. > > Something is odd with virtual hosting, presumably. Anybody have any > idea? Did someone use a SiteRoot, instead of something that isn't deprecated-for-a-good-reason like VirtualHostMoster? - -- Stuart Bishop http://www.stuartbishop.net/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (Darwin) iD8DBQFAWm22AfqZj7rGN0oRAtnOAKCGOS5634cUytFv3qBy4GfOF9/UQQCeLG9u KKYcMfyhkXaq/7wDoL33uz8= =rtXy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jacob at strakt.com Fri Mar 19 19:14:26 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Fri Mar 19 19:14:31 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] The cat is out of the bag Message-ID: <200403200114.26239.jacob@strakt.com> I've sent announcements to all registered people from last year, as well as to c.l.p and c.l.p.a. Please send copies of the announcement on the various mailing lists that you participate in. Zope, Plone, national mailing lists etc. Please mail this list saying what you have done, so we can track these activities. Many thanks to the Webwerkers for all their hard work. Jacob Hall?n From tismer at stackless.com Fri Mar 19 19:41:22 2004 From: tismer at stackless.com (Christian Tismer) Date: Fri Mar 19 19:41:09 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Re: Europython Call for Participation In-Reply-To: <200403192353.i2JNrdjw023655@enzo.strakt.com> References: <200403192353.i2JNrdjw023655@enzo.strakt.com> Message-ID: <405B9332.8070108@stackless.com> Jacob Hall?n wrote: ... > Important dates > > * Refereed paper proposals: 19 March - 31 March Does this mean I still could submit a refereed paper? I'm about to declare the Death of the Reactive Pattern. :-) cheers -- chris p.s.: need your input on the questions I asked in my last message -- Christian Tismer :^) Mission Impossible 5oftware : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's Johannes-Niemeyer-Weg 9a : *Starship* http://starship.python.net/ 14109 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net/ work +49 30 89 09 53 34 home +49 30 802 86 56 mobile +49 173 24 18 776 PGP 0x57F3BF04 9064 F4E1 D754 C2FF 1619 305B C09C 5A3B 57F3 BF04 whom do you want to sponsor today? http://www.stackless.com/ From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 22 10:09:37 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 22 10:09:44 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Agenda for today Message-ID: <200403221609.38109.jacob@strakt.com> Our next focus is making reservations operational, so this will be the focus of todays meeting. Cheers Jacob AGENDA A. Introductions, if any B. Information/Decision items C. Progress reports D. Urgent discussion/action items - Registration and room reservation Where are we now. When can we expect to be online? What help and input do the people working with it need? How do we handle room reservations and placements in rooms. E. Followups - Results of going public F. Other items From faassen at infrae.com Mon Mar 22 12:43:47 2004 From: faassen at infrae.com (Martijn Faassen) Date: Mon Mar 22 12:39:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] login weirdness Message-ID: <405F25D3.9040302@infrae.com> Hey, If I log in with the wrong password, I get an almost empty page with the text: you have reached isAnonymous This doesn't seem right. :) Regards, Martijn From andy at reportlab.com Mon Mar 22 18:00:11 2004 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Mon Mar 22 18:00:20 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] 3 weeks to go until Python UK! Message-ID: The UK Python Conference 2004 is just 3 weeks away, at the Randolph Hotel in Oxford, April 16-17 2004 (Fri/Sat). Come and listen to top Python experts including David Ascher, Alex Martelli, Samuele Pedroni, Marc-Andre Lemburg, Chris Withers, Duncan Booth, Armin Rigo and more. http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html The event follows on from a 2-day Open Source Forum discussing the key issues in the software industry, with speakers from IBM, SuSE, MySQL, Zope (Paul Everitt), ActiveState (David Ascher) reflecting on the state and direction of Open Source Software and debating key issues such as software patents. Come and make it a week! http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html Python companies may be interested in our budget sponsorship package: a stand and a 10-minute lunchtime talk on the Friday or Saturday Python track for just ?200. This is an ideal chance to showcase your skills or solutions to an audience of architects and decision makers from throughout the UK software development, or to advertise your Python product. http://www.accu.org/conference/sponsorship.html Best Regards Andy Robinson UK Python Conference chair From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 23 11:10:11 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 23 11:10:42 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc Message-ID: It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some details... In conferences/epc2004/venue/transit_html it says: "Getting to the tourist apartments at Utlandagatan" In accomodation_html we write about "a block of 2 and 4 bed rooms with SGS Veckobost?der". We also use SGS Veckobost?der in epc2004/Attending/index_html/view The average web site visitor might guess that these are the tourist appartments at Utlandagatan, but I still think it's better if we use a consistent label for these rooms. Perhaps it would be better to change the heading in transit_html to "Getting to SGS Veckobost?der at Utlandagatan" BTW, in several places, such as http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/view and http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/ we get pages that look different although we are in the same place according to the navigation tree. I assume that "epc2004/view" should show the same page as "epc2004/", and not that strange catalog listing (which I assume should be invisible to web site visitors). Finally, one misspelled word: http://www.europython.org/society/bylaws: s/ideel f?rening/ideell f?rening -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From magnus at thinkware.se Tue Mar 23 11:10:15 2004 From: magnus at thinkware.se (Magnus Lycka) Date: Tue Mar 23 11:10:45 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc Message-ID: It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some details... In conferences/epc2004/venue/transit_html it says: "Getting to the tourist apartments at Utlandagatan" In accomodation_html we write about "a block of 2 and 4 bed rooms with SGS Veckobost?der". We also use SGS Veckobost?der in epc2004/Attending/index_html/view The average web site visitor might guess that these are the tourist appartments at Utlandagatan, but I still think it's better if we use a consistent label for these rooms. Perhaps it would be better to change the heading in transit_html to "Getting to SGS Veckobost?der at Utlandagatan" BTW, in several places, such as http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/view and http://www.europython.org/conferences/epc2004/ we get pages that look different although we are in the same place according to the navigation tree. I assume that "epc2004/view" should show the same page as "epc2004/", and not that strange catalog listing (which I assume should be invisible to web site visitors). Finally, one misspelled word: http://www.europython.org/society/bylaws: s/ideel f?rening/ideell f?rening -- Magnus Lycka, Thinkware AB Alvans vag 99, SE-907 50 UMEA, SWEDEN phone: int+46 70 582 80 65, fax: int+46 70 612 80 65 http://www.thinkware.se/ mailto:magnus@thinkware.se From andy at reportlab.com Tue Mar 23 18:03:40 2004 From: andy at reportlab.com (Andy Robinson) Date: Tue Mar 23 18:07:48 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] ConferenceKit, schedules and timetables Message-ID: Hi everyone. Congratulations on getting the site up! I have noted the volume of work going into this, sorry to say I have not followed the details, but it looks really professional and impressive - and responds very fast. As you know we did some dynamic PDF programmes the last 2 years. We're ready to do the same again, but it will be a bit different this time: there is a standardized 'ConferenceKit' solution available now, which will let the EuroPython organisers log in, upload covers, templates and stuff like that, and design and preview the documents. We can also generate timetables in all shapes and sizes ready for printing. And if EuroPython wants any other kinds of documents (how about a preview-your-own-badge wizard?), we'd be happy to try and help with that too. To make it work an upload script will be needed to push speakers, tracks and talks from the EuroPython site into a fairly simple remote MySQL database for each event. We are rather busy getting this ready for Python UK (April 14-17) and XML Europe / Seybold (Amsterdam, April 18-21). After that it will be better documented and tested and we should have plenty of time to help set up any printed documents needed for the event. For now I just wanted to say it will definitely be available, and far better than before! Best Regards, Andy Robinson CEO/Chief Architect ReportLab Europe Ltd. mobile +44-7976-355742 office +44-20-8544-8049 From sasha at systemvaruhuset.com Thu Mar 25 03:52:47 2004 From: sasha at systemvaruhuset.com (Sasha Vincic) Date: Thu Mar 25 03:52:52 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] http://europython.org/ generates error In-Reply-To: <4031CE18.5020605@ita.chalmers.se> References: <2mvfm6282u.fsf@starship.python.net> <4031CE18.5020605@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1080204767.1798.15.camel@silent> A little note; http://europython.org/ generates an error, should redirect to www.europython.org /Sasha From hqduqukf at cebinet.com.br Sun Mar 28 05:21:39 2004 From: hqduqukf at cebinet.com.br (Ashlee Britt) Date: Sun Mar 28 06:03:20 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Proven Google AdWord writing styles that will generate clicks and money Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040328/79bdcd9e/attachment.html From ghum at gmx.net Sun Mar 28 07:54:46 2004 From: ghum at gmx.net (Harald Armin Massa) Date: Sun Mar 28 07:44:20 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Advertisments for Europython Message-ID: <001b01c414c3$d9c04050$642aa8c0@tog2> I'm reading the German business magazin "brand eins" on page 48 of the current volume there is an advertisment of google, they are promoting their adwords. Included is a virtual voucher of 50 Euro - I would like to "donate" it to Europython. Can we use these? Shall we get googlers to go to www.europython.org? Harald -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040328/a676099d/attachment.html From virusalert at salaction.de Sun Mar 28 16:34:22 2004 From: virusalert at salaction.de (virusalert@salaction.de) Date: Sun Mar 28 16:34:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Virus Alert Message-ID: <200403282134.i2SLYMb25735@mail.salaction.de> The mail message (file: abuse_list.pif) you sent to iris.weissen@salaction.de contains a virus. (on mail.salaction.de) From dario at ita.chalmers.se Mon Mar 29 03:31:52 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Mon Mar 29 03:32:03 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting Message-ID: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> Hi, I can?t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and thrupught the evening. What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch... /Dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From bea at webwitches.com Mon Mar 29 04:26:44 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Mon Mar 29 04:26:00 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting In-Reply-To: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <1080552403.31702.7.camel@ogg> On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 10:31, Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: > Hi, I can?t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and > thrupught the evening. > > What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch... Same here, I'm afraid. Invitation to a 40th birthday from the early evening on. If there is anything I can contribute before that, let me know. If not, I am available tomorrow afternoon... I'll eat some cake in your honour! Regards bea -- bea@webwitches.com "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 04:29:53 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 29 04:30:01 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:31:52 +0200." <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:31:52 +0200, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: >Hi, I can=E4t attend todays meeting due to workactivity after lunch and=2 >0 >thrupught the evening. > >What is the agenda? Perhaps I can manage do do soemthing before lunch... > >/Dario Jacob and I just got back from PyCon last night. So we are jetlagged. I just got up now, and Jacob is still asleep. I wanted to spend the meeting on the hotel reservation system, and getting the sponsorship logos on the front page, plus whatever else needs doing. Laura From bea at webwitches.com Mon Mar 29 04:36:04 2004 From: bea at webwitches.com (Beatrice Fontaine) Date: Mon Mar 29 04:36:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Can't attend todays meeting In-Reply-To: <200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <4067DEF8.5080806@ita.chalmers.se> <200403290929.i2T9TrpV024358@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <1080552963.31702.14.camel@ogg> On Mon, 2004-03-29 at 11:29, Laura Creighton wrote: [snip] > Jacob and I just got back from PyCon last night. So we are jetlagged. > I just got up now, and Jacob is still asleep. I wanted to spend the meeting > on the hotel reservation system, and getting the sponsorship logos on > the front page, plus whatever else needs doing. Hotel: We had a talk about that last week, mainly about how to bill room sharers separately for business purposes. Logo: In sent ours to Tom last week. I hope he got all the ones necessary. Whatever else: throw stuff my way as needed. I will scream if you're throwing too hard. Welcome back in Europe. Hope the conference was great! bea -- "My agenda is so hidden that I can't find it myself". Me. B?atrice Fontaine Fabriksgatan 7 - SE- 96131 Boden Tel + 46 921 150 45 - GSM + 46 70 640 2773 E-mail : bea@webwitches.com - URL: www.webwitches.com From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 07:44:31 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 29 07:44:35 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] wanted wiki pages Message-ID: <200403291244.i2TCiV77024834@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I want 3 wiki pages accessible from www.europython.org. One to add your name to a Sprint List, to talk about Sprints. One to add your lightning talk. One to add your BOF session. Pycon http://www.pycon.org/ had a Sprint page http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SprintPlan2004 that was active before PyCon. We can steal the relevant info. Pycon lightning talks were not set up in advance. This was a problem. People missed hearing things they were interested in. So I want a page like that .... unless Anna who is organising this, I think, minds. BOFs also were planned in an ad-hoc fashion. I think that more BOFs will be added on site, but I want people who already know they want one to get in on the scheduling. Laura From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 09:20:08 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 29 09:20:46 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] My (old) interview on http://www.europython.org/interviews/laura_creighton/view Message-ID: <200403291420.i2TEK8CH025090@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In it Jacob Hallén 's name is misspelled Jacob Hallì can somebody change that, please? Laura From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 12:06:27 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 29 12:06:50 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] testing registration Message-ID: <200403291706.i2TH6Rik025523@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> 1. I would like all the forms to fit on one page. I hate this 'step 1, step 2, step 3' where your information vanishes trick. 2. can we get medium tshirts 3. SWIFT is misspelled. 4. There is no point in asking people what type of registration. If it is before the early bird, they should get this, and if it is too late, they should not. They need to select if they are a speaker, but this means for the refereed track only, right, not for giving a talk? So this selection is ambiguous. We need to describe, in a paragraph: what is a student and what is a speaker and then let them click a checkbox saying what they are. The 'you entered the following data' shows that it is indeed possible to fit in pne page, but there is way too much whitespace and its should be formatted to fit in one page without scrolling by making some fields side by side. Why are we collecting all this personal information? It should be optional, I think. Let people get their registration id MAILED to them. We need a chatty yap about WorldPay -- or a link to one of their yaps -- to show that this is a secure way to pay. I don't know the first thing about them -- I assume we are using them for a good reason, but it reassures me to know something about them. I want new fields. a) are you a vegetarian b) have you any food allergies c) do you have limited mobility d) is there anything else we need to know to make your stay at our conference a more pleasant one. Now, after all of this they should be referred to the Sprint Page, to sign up for Sprints, and the Food Page, to talk in great detail about food if they want -- so we need a food page -- and the accomodation page, so they can reserve a room. The closing of registering should thank them for registering for EP, and give them these links to choose from. Laura From jjl at pobox.com Mon Mar 29 12:13:36 2004 From: jjl at pobox.com (John J Lee) Date: Mon Mar 29 12:12:37 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] ANN: Python UK Conference, 16th - 17th April 2004 Message-ID: The Python UK conference is taking place on Friday and Saturday 16th and 17th of April, as part of the ACCU Spring Conference at the Randolph Hotel in the centre of Oxford. The impressive list of speakers includes David Ascher, Alex Martelli, Armin Rigo of Psyco and PyPy fame, Duncan Booth, Chris Withers, and core CPython and Jython developers Michael Hudson and Samuele Pedroni. The Python conference follows a 2-day Open Source event with well-known open-source leader and Pythonista Eric Raymond, co-founder of Zope corp Paul Everitt, and a host of other interesting speakers. http://www.accu.org/conference/ http://www.accu.org/conference/python.html http://www.accu.org/conference/opensource.html Though all the official speakers are invited, there will be considerable space during breaks and after hours for Python mini-talks, Birds of a Feather meetings and sprints (possibly including a PyPy sprint). There are also very reasonable sponsorship options (starting from 200 for a lunchtime stand and talk) for Python companies wishing to promote themselves; see the 'sponsorship' page of the site for details. John From jacob at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 13:22:53 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon Mar 29 13:22:59 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] For adding to the website Message-ID: <200403292022.53882.jacob@strakt.com> Taxis ===== Taxis in Sweden are not price regulated, and there are a few ways that visitors can get into trouble. Mostly because they get an astronomic bill at the end of the journey. A few rules to avoid this: 1. All licensed taxis have yellow number plates. Never buy a ride with someone who doesn't. They are illegal taxis, and people do get in bad trouble riding them from time to time. 2. Some of the licensed taxis have very high fares. You avoid those by only using "Taxi G?teborg" and "Taxis Kurir". These are the largest taxi chains, with a reputation to protect, so you can trust them to deal with you fairly. 3. In town, always run on the meter. 4. For airport transfer, ask for "fast pris". This means "fixed price". It should be around SEK 370 for going to/from Landvetter. Taxis in general are expensive and mostly unnecessary. Public transit will take you just about anywhere, just a tad slower. From lac at strakt.com Mon Mar 29 16:11:52 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Mon Mar 29 16:12:02 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] dates on europython site are in YYY-MM-DD numberical format. Message-ID: <200403292111.i2TLBquU026202@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> But Americans are coming. So we had better change that to spell out the month, else they will get confused. Laura From tom at aragne.com Mon Mar 29 16:32:27 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Mon Mar 29 16:32:34 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] My (old) interview onhttp://www.europython.org/interviews/laura_creighton/view References: <200403291420.i2TEK8CH025090@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <023c01c415d5$8fab6bd0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> should be fixed now. Laura Creighton wrote: > In it Jacob Hall?n 's name is misspelled Jacob Hall? > > can somebody change that, please? > > Laura > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From tom at aragne.com Mon Mar 29 17:08:57 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Mon Mar 29 17:07:28 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] plone: table Message-ID: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Hi, How can I remove the green border around a table in plone? I tried several css attributes, but to no avail. Thanks, T. From rev_anna_r at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 20:41:47 2004 From: rev_anna_r at yahoo.com (Anna Ravenscroft) Date: Mon Mar 29 20:41:51 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] wanted wiki pages In-Reply-To: <200403291244.i2TCiV77024834@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20040330014147.15492.qmail@web60409.mail.yahoo.com> --- Laura Creighton wrote: > I want 3 wiki pages accessible from www.europython.org. > One to add your name to a Sprint List, to talk about Sprints. > One to add your lightning talk. > One to add your BOF session. > > Pycon http://www.pycon.org/ had a Sprint page > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/SprintPlan2004 > that was active before PyCon. > > We can steal the relevant info. > Pycon lightning talks were not set up in advance. This was a > problem. > People missed hearing things they were interested in. Yep - I kinda sorta volunteered to fix that for them for next year - assuming I get to attend next year... > So I want a > page > like that .... unless Anna who is organising this, I think, minds. Anna would be delighted. I am busy playing tourist in DC with my kids right now... but go ahead and setup a wiki and I'll go check it out... But keep in mind, I'm hoping that folks can submit a lightning talk on the normal "submit talks" page... so we can track them. (I had requested that previously...) BTW - is there anywhere we can find the talks that were uploaded for last year? Are those gone into the ether or are they saved on some old variant of the website somewhere? Anna From dario at ita.chalmers.se Tue Mar 30 01:58:00 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Tue Mar 30 01:58:10 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site + changes Message-ID: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se> Hello, 1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site - I do not understand it :-) 2) Changes to the organisation of sponsor images. 3) Changes in caching First, I would like to know how the VirtualHosting setup is done with the site. the EPC2002 and 2003 refer to fodlers that do not exist in the root of the www.eurpython.org site. The same goes for many images that refer to an /images folder not present in the root of www.europython.org. This makes it hard to manage images, etc. Second, I am moving all the images from the root of www.europython.org to /conferences/epc2004/sponsors/logos/. This keeps things neat and tidy and keeps the root non-cluttered. Thirdly, I have changed some of the caching parameters... this means that the site will be slower, but on the other hand it will display correct info. Up to know I cached things like the login page, the folder_contents ZPT and other similar things, which simply lead to probolems for people using the site, especially for managers. If you encounter more stuff that seems "weird and/or broken" please let me know and I'll try to see if it is related to caching... any expert in Zope caching out there is welcome to help - I am by no means an expert. Cheers, /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From gotcha at bubblenet.be Tue Mar 30 04:43:49 2004 From: gotcha at bubblenet.be (Godefroid Chapelle) Date: Tue Mar 30 04:40:54 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] plone: table In-Reply-To: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <025701c415da$6f51eb70$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <40694155.5060602@bubblenet.be> Tom Deprez wrote: > Hi, > > How can I remove the green border around a table in plone? I tried > several css attributes, but to no avail. To find out which css attributes are set on which html tag, use Mozilla dom inspector (found under tools, web development menu). You can select any html node, or in the dom tree, or by clicking the graphical element in the page itself. After that, you get a chance to select CSS style rules in the right panel. This way, you can see which css rule apply to the node and get an easy way to know where to change it. You even can edit it in memory to check if you use the right setting ! Better learn how to fish than getting a fish for free ;-) > > Thanks, > T. > -- Godefroid Chapelle (aka __gotcha) http://bubblenet.be From mwh at python.net Mon Mar 29 11:41:50 2004 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue Mar 30 05:11:06 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Detail in transit_html etc In-Reply-To: (Magnus Lycka's message of "Tue, 23 Mar 2004 17:10:11 +0100") References: Message-ID: <2m1xnbli5t.fsf@starship.python.net> Magnus Lycka writes: > It's nice that the new site is live, but I found some details... If you tell me your username I'll give you the privs to fix these yourself :-) Cheers, mwh (how's that for a threat? ) -- #ifndef P_tmpdir printf( "Go buy a better computer" ); exit( ETHESKYISFALLINGANDIWANTMYMAMA ); -- Dimitri Maziuk on writing secure code, asr From ivo at amaze.nl Tue Mar 30 05:43:19 2004 From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk) Date: Tue Mar 30 05:52:17 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site + changes In-Reply-To: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se> References: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <40694F47.7070808@amaze.nl> Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: > Hello, > > 1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site - I > do not understand it :-) > From a hosting perspective, requests for (www.)europython.org are mapped directly to the root of the Zope instance. The VHM there takes care of rewriting requests to the correct folders. I know nothing about images configuations. Cheers Ivo -- Drs. I.R. van der Wijk -=- Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12 Amaze Internet Services V.O.F. 1017 RC Amsterdam, NL -=- T +31-20-4688336 F +31-20-4688337 Zope/Plone/Content Management W http://www.amaze.nl E info@amaze.nl Open Source Solutions W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl Consultancy PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp From jacob at strakt.com Tue Mar 30 09:57:26 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Tue Mar 30 10:00:39 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation reservation design Message-ID: <200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com> Here is my design idea for how to make reservations for rooms. I am assuming we have personal details for whoever is making the reservation. While there are probably more service minded approaches to the problem, this one has the advantage that it is simple and only gives a limited number of choices. The most common case outside of what we cover will probably be people who want to stay an extra night after the conference. We have to check with SGS Veckobost?der if they have the room available in any case, so this will have to be handled manually no matter what. Jacob -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: accomodation.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 91075 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20040330/710ccde9/accomodation-0001.pdf From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 30 10:15:04 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 30 10:15:11 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Accomodation reservation design In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:57:26 +0200." <200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403301657.26322.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403301515.i2UFF4T8029400@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> I suggest we make the wiki before we get teh reservations. We want people to self-organise into groups of 2 or 4. We need to make it clear that the person who is booking the reservation a) is responsible for the whole bill b) can rent a whole room and not share it, or share it with non-conference family members -- just sign up for all the beds, and pay extra. c) if you arrange to share a room with some people, and they don't show or don't pay you, we aren't responsible. Laura From jacob at strakt.com Tue Mar 30 10:32:06 2004 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n?=) Date: Tue Mar 30 10:32:13 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython Message-ID: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> Name of the account holder: Europython Society Address: c/o AB Strakt Norra ?gatan 10 SE-416 64 G?teborg Sweden Name of the Bank: SWEDBANK (a.k.a. F?reningssparbanken) Address: Box 6046 400 60 G?teborg Sweden BIC (SWIFT) code: SWEDESS Bank Clearing Number: 8105-9 Account Number: 037 676 534-3 (non-Swedish residents) 983 415 181-4 (Swedish residents) I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have that information in a day or two. Jacob From lac at strakt.com Tue Mar 30 10:38:53 2004 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue Mar 30 10:39:26 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython In-Reply-To: Message from Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n?= of "Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200." <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> References: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> In a message of Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200, Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n ?= writes: >Name of the account holder: Europython Society > >Address: c/o AB Strakt > Norra ?gatan 10 > SE-416 64 G?teborg > Sweden > >Name of the Bank: SWEDBANK (a.k.a. F?reningssparbanken) > >Address: Box 6046 > 400 60 G?teborg > Sweden >=20 >BIC (SWIFT) code: SWEDESS > >Bank Clearing Number: 8105-9=20 >Account Number: 037 676 534-3 (non-Swedish residents) > 983 415 181-4 (Swedish residents) > >I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have >that information in a day or two. > >Jacob If you are in Europe, the fee should be 0. New law. Laura From dario at ita.chalmers.se Wed Mar 31 03:15:02 2004 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Wed Mar 31 03:15:17 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Bank account numbers of Europython In-Reply-To: <200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <200403301732.06061.jacob@strakt.com> <200403301538.i2UFcrwI029472@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <406A7E06.9000803@ita.chalmers.se> Laura Creighton wrote: > In a message of Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:32:06 +0200, Jacob =?utf-8?q?Hall=C3=A9n > ?= writes: >>I don't know what our fee for receiving foreign payments is. I should have >>that information in a day or two. >> >>Jacob > > If you are in Europe, the fee should be 0. New law. > Nevertheless most banks charge anythin from 0.25 euros up to 1 euro for EU payments. There seems to be no consistent info on SWEDBANKS website on what the charges are. This needs to be looked up specifically. /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. From cristian.lucchesi at iit.cnr.it Wed Mar 31 12:03:00 2004 From: cristian.lucchesi at iit.cnr.it (Cristian Lucchesi) Date: Wed Mar 31 12:03:16 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Refereed paper submission Message-ID: <1080752580.27633.48.camel@lucchesi.iit.cnr.it> Hi, Europython.org is not available at 18.40, we have to submit a refereed paper so we have think to send the abstract here: Author: Marco Andreini, Cristian Lucchesi, Maurizio Martinelli, Giuseppe Vasarelli of Institute for Informatics and Telematics (IIT), Italian National Research Council (CNR). Abstract: The amount of paper documents that need to be digitized is huge. It is useful to have a system to capture and query them on line in a simple way. In this paper we present an acquisition and information retrivial system based on Zope/Plone, that allows a quick definition of costumized data type and an easy management of the storage of digitized documents. Using the Archetypes extension, it is possible to obtain the relevant interfaces and dynamic validations that allow multiple users to input such documents in a simple and quick way. In addition, the python client, which has been designed to work on HTTP/HTTPS, automatizes the acquisition phases and the delivery of the data to the server. Making the storage of data independent from the ZODB (the limit of which is hightlighted by our benchmarks) and making it be dependent just on the transactional filesystems and on the Postgresql DBMS, it is possible to support a good scalability even for millions of documents and for hundreds of GigaBytes of images. The architecture is fully compliant with web standards and with its design principles. The approach of this paper is applied to a case study regarding the acquisition and the queries of millions of paper documents belonging to the Italian Registration Authoriy for Internet Domain Names. Best regards, Cristian From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 31 11:57:32 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 31 12:04:04 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] Problems with the Virutal hosting setup of the site +changes References: <40691A78.8070505@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <00ea01c41742$5fbc68c0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Dario Lopez-K?sten wrote: > Hello, > > 1) I have some issues with how the virtual hosting setup of the site > - I do not understand it :-) > > 2) Changes to the organisation of sponsor images. > > 3) Changes in caching > > > First, I would like to know how the VirtualHosting setup is done with > the site. Don't know, haven't set it up this way. > the EPC2002 and 2003 refer to fodlers that do not exist in the root of > the www.eurpython.org site. They DO or at least did exist (lastly checked on monday)... These folders are needed because they are the old europython websites and should stay.. > The same goes for many images that refer to an /images folder not > present in the root of www.europython.org. This makes it hard to > manage images, etc. > > Second, I am moving all the images from the root of www.europython.org > to /conferences/epc2004/sponsors/logos/. This keeps things neat and > tidy and keeps the root non-cluttered. DON'T move this.... I've let them inside because the epc2002 and epc2003 use them.... > > Thirdly, I have changed some of the caching parameters... this means > that the site will be slower, but on the other hand it will display > correct info. > > Up to know I cached things like the login page, the folder_contents > ZPT and other similar things, which simply lead to probolems for > people using the site, especially for managers. > > If you encounter more stuff that seems "weird and/or broken" please > let me know and I'll try to see if it is related to caching... any > expert in Zope caching out there is welcome to help - I am by no > means an expert. > > Cheers, > > /dario From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 31 11:58:46 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 31 12:04:07 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website Message-ID: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down. T. From ivo at amaze.nl Wed Mar 31 13:14:39 2004 From: ivo at amaze.nl (Ivo van der Wijk) Date: Wed Mar 31 13:13:58 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website In-Reply-To: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> References: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Message-ID: <406B0A8F.1030400@amaze.nl> Tom Deprez wrote: > Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down. > The instance was running but not responding. If you have shellaccess, you can zopectl restart it (which I have done now) Cheers Ivo > T. > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython@python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Drs. I.R. van der Wijk -=- Korte Leidsedwarsstraat 12 Amaze Internet Services V.O.F. 1017 RC Amsterdam, NL -=- T +31-20-4688336 F +31-20-4688337 Zope/Plone/Content Management W http://www.amaze.nl E info@amaze.nl Open Source Solutions W http://vanderwijk.info E ivo@amaze.nl Consultancy PGP http://vanderwijk.info/pgp From tom at aragne.com Wed Mar 31 13:32:01 2004 From: tom at aragne.com (Tom Deprez) Date: Wed Mar 31 13:38:25 2004 Subject: [EuroPython] website References: <00eb01c41742$624d73e0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> <406B0A8F.1030400@amaze.nl> Message-ID: <012a01c4174f$915860c0$897ba8c0@skullsplitter> Thanks for the tip and the help. Regards, Tom. Ivo van der Wijk wrote: > Tom Deprez wrote: >> Don't know what the case is, but the website seems to be down. >> > > The instance was running but not responding. If you have shellaccess, > you can zopectl restart it (which I have done now) > > Cheers > > Ivo > >> T. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> EuroPython mailing list >> EuroPython@python.org >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython