From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 9 10:53:02 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 09:53:02 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] IRC meeting **TODAY** Message-ID: <2mwth9ram9.fsf@starship.python.net> >From http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2006/IrcMeetings : We plan to have a meeting on Monday the 9th of January at 1700 GMT+1 in the #europython channel on freenode. I think that's still the plan. Apologies for not sending this reminder sooner. Cheers, mwh -- "Fetch me my internet pants." -- from Twisted.Quotes From hpk at trillke.net Mon Jan 9 11:12:18 2006 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 11:12:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] IRC meeting **TODAY** In-Reply-To: <2mwth9ram9.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mwth9ram9.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <20060109101218.GX3134@solar.trillke.net> On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 09:53 +0000, Michael Hudson wrote: > >From http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2006/IrcMeetings : > > We plan to have a meeting on Monday the 9th of January at 1700 > GMT+1 in the #europython channel on freenode. > > I think that's still the plan. Apologies for not sending this > reminder sooner. I suggest the following topics: * brief posting about everyone's interest (to get a picture of why everyone attends) * Detailed Status of Preparations at CERN (Benedikt) * Track Planning / Chairs Status (Michael) * PR-considerations (Paul/Holger), mostly thinking about keynote-givers * Timeline EuroPython 2006 (can someone prepare a proposal from past experiences?) * schedule Next Meeting (early Feb?) Please feel free to comment/amend/add/delete from this list before the meeting. I'd appreciate if we can keep the meeting to 60 minutes. Let's rather do a couple of short meetings than a few long lasting ones. And no, i am not interested in moderating the meeting but would proably do it *this time* if enough people want me to :) I actually suggest Aiste to do it, hehe. cheers, holger From jacob at strakt.com Mon Jan 9 14:13:47 2006 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 14:13:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] IRC meeting **TODAY** In-Reply-To: <20060109101218.GX3134@solar.trillke.net> References: <2mwth9ram9.fsf@starship.python.net> <20060109101218.GX3134@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <200601091413.47793.jacob@strakt.com> m?ndagen den 9 januari 2006 11.12 skrev holger krekel: > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 09:53 +0000, Michael Hudson wrote: > > >From http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2006/IrcMeetings : > > > > We plan to have a meeting on Monday the 9th of January at 1700 > > GMT+1 in the #europython channel on freenode. > > > > I think that's still the plan. Apologies for not sending this > > reminder sooner. > > I suggest the following topics: > > * brief posting about everyone's interest (to get a picture > of why everyone attends) > * Detailed Status of Preparations at CERN (Benedikt) > * Track Planning / Chairs Status (Michael) > * PR-considerations (Paul/Holger), mostly thinking about keynote-givers > * Timeline EuroPython 2006 (can someone prepare a proposal from past > experiences?) * schedule Next Meeting (early Feb?) > > Please feel free to comment/amend/add/delete from this list > before the meeting. > > I'd appreciate if we can keep the meeting to 60 minutes. > Let's rather do a couple of short meetings than a few long > lasting ones. And no, i am not interested in moderating > the meeting but would proably do it *this time* if enough > people want me to :) I actually suggest Aiste to do it, hehe. I will probably not be able to attend the meeting, but I am still committed to do the following parts: 1. Provide the technical solution for registration, approval and publishing of talks. 2. Provide the technical solution for attendee registration. 3. Handle the printing of badges. 4. Make a handover of the conference program generation, giving whoever will do the generation the tools for extracting the correct information from the conference registration system and inserting it into the conference program generation system. Items 1-3 are mostly doing an update and improvement to the system used last year. There are a few usability issues I would like to address and I would like to add the possibility of setting a password for people who wish to protect their personal information. There should also be a box to check if you don't want to be included in a list of attendees. Since we haven't had an opt-out before, we have been unable to give out details about attendees to other attendees, and there have been several people asking for such a list. Jacob Hall?n From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Mon Jan 9 16:34:57 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 16:34:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] IRC meeting **TODAY** In-Reply-To: <200601091413.47793.jacob@strakt.com> References: <2mwth9ram9.fsf@starship.python.net> <20060109101218.GX3134@solar.trillke.net> <200601091413.47793.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <20060109153457.GC2331@crater.logilab.fr> I will probably not be able to attend the meeting, but I am still committed to do the following parts: * manage the science track [with help from other volunteers that contacted me] -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From gregweblists at googlemail.com Mon Jan 9 18:07:35 2006 From: gregweblists at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Weber?=) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:07:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PR: Get listed in a swiss OSS agenda (printed and electronic); deadline for printed version: 31.1.2006 Message-ID: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> Hi everybody! There is a so called "OSS Roadmap" (agenda with OSS events): http://www.ch-open.ch/sigs/ossroadmap/ (german only) Partial translation to english: The association /ch/open (http://www.ch-open.ch) in corporation with IBM Switzerland (http://www.ibm.ch) will prepare a callendar (a so called OSS roadmap) with all Open Source activities in 2006. - There will be a printed version (deadline 31.1.2006) - and an electronic version (no deadlines) If I get some help I can have a look we get registered for the print version of this agenda. We should really get listed there! Gregoire From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Mon Jan 9 18:42:52 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 18:42:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Site europython 2006 In-Reply-To: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> References: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> Message-ID: <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> >jan 09 17:42:37 Aiste mwh: who was responsible for webpage and other related things in the last conf? >jan 09 17:42:38 * dlk agrees with aiset - this is a hot topic :-) >jan 09 17:42:52 Aiste and who is interested in doing it this year? >jan 09 17:42:56 dlk Aiste: it was jean-marc. >jan 09 17:42:56 mwh Aiste: i think jacob and laura did almost all of it >jan 09 17:43:01 Aiste :) >jan 09 17:43:03 mwh content-wise, that is >jan 09 17:43:10 dlk we switched from Plone to CPS because no-one was happy with plone. >jan 09 17:43:16 Aiste content is somewhat separate from solution >jan 09 17:43:27 pedronis Bene: in what it is written? >jan 09 17:43:32 dlk and b fore that we swithced from something else to plone because none was happy with what was avialble then. >jan 09 17:43:47 Aiste ok, same situation this year as I can see >jan 09 17:43:53 zopepaul dlk: too bad the system won't write the words on the pages, as that's the real problem :) >jan 09 17:43:54 Aiste can we move the disscussion to mailing list >jan 09 17:44:04 hpk +1 > > Hi, As far as I can tell, the solution was a bit complex last year in that 3 different solutions were involved: - Strakt's own system for the registration to the conference, schedule planning and authors' bio and articles (http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/presentation.chtml). - CPS for the site content, information about the conference (http://www.europython.org/) - The wiki on python.org for user contributions (sprints, etc..http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython2005) /JM From asouzaleite at gmx.de Fri Jan 6 10:36:07 2006 From: asouzaleite at gmx.de (Aroldo Souza-Leite) Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2006 10:36:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] talk slides Gothenburg 2005 Message-ID: <43BE3A07.8020204@gmx.de> Hi, could somebody upload my Gothenburg slides 2005 to http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/alisttrack.chtml?track=694 (Zope 3 Common Criteria Certirification). I've forgotten all instructions and passwords, sorry. Thanks. Aroldo. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Zope3C_gothenburg_2005.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 254819 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20060106/05dbc3e8/attachment-0001.pdf From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Mon Jan 9 18:49:18 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:49:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN Message-ID: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> Hi all! Some comments and information from the local organizers on epc2006: Rooms and infrastructure: - rooms are booked and confirmed. - we prebooked open space for that and need to confirm it. - we have prepared network for conference and sprints and some conference printers. - for registraiton we need the MAC addresses of the laptops to make our live easier. The CERN IT is a little bit peculiar with that. - at CERN you get access cards. I prepared special ones with the EPC logo. We have to fix the numbers of cards to print. No problem if there are to few - then we just get the normal ones. Website: - I propose using the INDICO software project funded by the EU. There is a group at CERN willing to support us. (http://indico.web.cern.ch/ indico/index.html). What's your opinion? PR: - we could print conference posters in our print shop but we need someone to design it. - since you can get T-shirts at CERN and at every conference I propose conference coffee cups. I have plenty of conference shirts but I don't wear them at all. - in the next CERN courier will be an article about Europython. (CERN courier is a journal which is read by most of the particle physicists) Tracks and talks: - Should we have a poster session? - I would like to have a talk about CERN and the role of CERN in physics and computing science. Is there time for that? Fees and registration: - we have to decide the conference fees soon. - if there are people from outside EU or Schengen needing a visa they should register early enough that CERN has time to help with that. That's all for the moment. Cheers Benedikt -- Benedikt Hegner, DESY FLC Notkestr. 85, D-22607 Hamburg Office: 1d/38a Phone: +49 (0)40 8998 1797 Fax: +49 (0)40 8998 1812 at CERN: Office: 32/4b-20 Phone: +41 (0)22 767 6487 Fax: +41 (0)22 782 8923 From jacob at strakt.com Mon Jan 9 21:11:09 2006 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2006 21:11:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] talk slides Gothenburg 2005 In-Reply-To: <43BE3A07.8020204@gmx.de> References: <43BE3A07.8020204@gmx.de> Message-ID: <200601092111.09354.jacob@strakt.com> fredagen den 6 januari 2006 10.36 skrev Aroldo Souza-Leite: > Hi, > > could somebody upload my Gothenburg slides 2005 to > > http://www.python-in-business.org/ep2005/alisttrack.chtml?track=694 > > (Zope 3 Common Criteria Certirification). > > I've forgotten all instructions and passwords, sorry. Done. Jacob From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 10 10:17:55 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 09:17:55 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] PR: Get listed in a swiss OSS agenda (printed and electronic); deadline for printed version: 31.1.2006 In-Reply-To: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> ( =?iso-8859-1?q?Gr=E9goire_Weber's_message_of?= "Mon, 9 Jan 2006 18:07:35 +0100") References: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2mirssqw58.fsf@starship.python.net> Gr?goire Weber writes: > Hi everybody! > > There is a so called "OSS Roadmap" (agenda with OSS events): > > http://www.ch-open.ch/sigs/ossroadmap/ (german only) > > Partial translation to english: > > The association /ch/open (http://www.ch-open.ch) in corporation > with IBM Switzerland (http://www.ibm.ch) will prepare a callendar > (a so called OSS roadmap) with all Open Source activities in 2006. > > - There will be a printed version (deadline 31.1.2006) > - and an electronic version (no deadlines) > > If I get some help I can have a look we get registered for the print > version of this agenda. > > We should really get listed there! What needs to be done to make this happen? It certainly sounds like a good idea. Cheers, mwh -- Slim Shady is fed up with your shit, and he's going to kill you. -- Eminem, "Public Service Announcement 2000" From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Tue Jan 10 10:35:21 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 10:35:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PR: Get listed in a swiss OSS agenda (printed and electronic); deadline for printed version: 31.1.2006 In-Reply-To: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> References: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Gr?goire, I can help with that. What do you need? Harald - do you still have the german PR text from 2005? Cheers Benedikt -- Benedikt Hegner, DESY FLC Notkestr. 85, D-22607 Hamburg Office: 1d/38a Phone: +49 (0)40 8998 1797 Fax: +49 (0)40 8998 1812 at CERN: Office: 32/4b-20 Phone: +41 (0)22 767 6487 Fax: +41 (0)22 782 8923 On 09.01.2006, at 18:07, Gr?goire Weber wrote: > Hi everybody! > > There is a so called "OSS Roadmap" (agenda with OSS events): > > http://www.ch-open.ch/sigs/ossroadmap/ (german only) > > Partial translation to english: > > The association /ch/open (http://www.ch-open.ch) in corporation > with IBM Switzerland (http://www.ibm.ch) will prepare a callendar > (a so called OSS roadmap) with all Open Source activities in 2006. > > - There will be a printed version (deadline 31.1.2006) > - and an electronic version (no deadlines) > > If I get some help I can have a look we get registered for the print > version of this agenda. > > We should really get listed there! > > Gregoire > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Jan 10 12:55:54 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:55:54 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Site europython 2006 In-Reply-To: <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> References: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> Just for historical concerns... On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 06:42:52PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: > >jan 09 17:43:10 dlk we switched from Plone to CPS because no-one was happy with plone. or rather, people willing to do the work did not know plone and did not want to learn. > >jan 09 17:43:32 dlk and b fore that we swithced from something else to plone because none was happy with what was avialble then. before that it was Zope and people willing to do the work thought it would be easier with plone. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From paul at zope-europe.org Tue Jan 10 13:22:49 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:22:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Site europython 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> References: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <156D8D40-5595-4BA8-B4CA-E01A83A5AA78@zope-europe.org> Just to emphasize this point, history has shown that only a small number of people, namely the conference organizers, spend any non- negligible time working on *content* for the site. As such, this organizer's group should be free to make any technology choice they want. The idea that "if we had a better tool, people would write more" has proven itself to be wishful thinking. People simply haven't been motivated to write content, IMO, and use the website technology as an excuse for lack of contribution. (I'm as much to blame on this as anybody.) --Paul On Jan 10, 2006, at 12:55 PM, Nicolas Chauvat wrote: > Just for historical concerns... > > On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 06:42:52PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: >>> jan 09 17:43:10 dlk we switched from Plone to CPS because no-one >>> was happy with plone. > > or rather, people willing to do the work did not know plone and did > not want to learn. > >>> jan 09 17:43:32 dlk and b fore that we swithced from something >>> else to plone because none was happy with what was avialble then. > > before that it was Zope and people willing to do the work thought it > would be easier with plone. > > -- > Nicolas Chauvat > > logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de > connaissances > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 10 13:30:14 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 13:30:14 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Site europython 2006 In-Reply-To: Message from Nicolas Chauvat of "Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:55:54 +0100." <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> References: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> Message-ID: <200601101230.k0ACUECC021815@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> No, more correct the first time. Many of the people who had used Plone the year before _hated_ it. Laura In a message of Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:55:54 +0100, Nicolas Chauvat writes: >Just for historical concerns... > >On Mon, Jan 09, 2006 at 06:42:52PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: >> >jan 09 17:43:10 dlk we switched from Plone to CPS because no-one was h >appy with plone. > >or rather, people willing to do the work did not know plone and did >not want to learn. >> >jan 09 17:43:32 dlk and b fore that we swithced from something else to > plone because none was happy with what was avialble then. > >before that it was Zope and people willing to do the work thought it >would be easier with plone. > >-- >Nicolas Chauvat > >logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances > >_______________________________________________ >EuroPython mailing list >EuroPython at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 10 13:40:52 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 12:40:52 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> Message-ID: <2moe2kp86j.fsf@starship.python.net> Benedikt Hegner writes: > Hi all! > > Some comments and information from the local organizers on epc2006: > > Rooms and infrastructure: > - rooms are booked and confirmed. > - we prebooked open space for that and need to confirm it. > - we have prepared network for conference and sprints and some > conference printers. > - for registraiton we need the MAC addresses of the laptops to make > our live easier. The CERN IT is a little bit peculiar with that. People will whinge about this however we play it, but we should try to make sure people are forewarned. > Website: > - I propose using the INDICO software project funded by the EU. There > is a group at CERN willing to support us. (http://indico.web.cern.ch/ > indico/index.html). What's your opinion? Well, in principle the idea of having someone else do the work appeals to me. There are some obvious caveats though: - is this something we can use for EP2007, ... ? - does it basically work? If hand-holding and baby-sitting are required, I'd rather hold the hand of software we wrote. I'm also a little unsure what "using" this software involves. Would we install it on our own machine, or get some kind of account on a machine at CERN? > PR: > - we could print conference posters in our print shop but we need > someone to design it. Traditionally this sort of thing has been done by Vincent Maton but I don't know if he's still around/willing to do this... > - since you can get T-shirts at CERN and at every conference I > propose conference coffee cups. I have plenty of conference shirts > but I don't wear them at all. Me too... > - in the next CERN courier will be an article about Europython. (CERN > courier is a journal which is read by most of the particle physicists) > > Tracks and talks: > - Should we have a poster session? I'm not sure about this. If I had something interesting I wanted to present that didn't merit a full talk, I'd probably angle for a lightning talk, not a poster. But other opinions may vary. > - I would like to have a talk about CERN and the role of CERN in > physics and computing science. Is there time for that? I'm sure we can make time :) Talk to Nicolas, I guess. > Fees and registration: > - we have to decide the conference fees soon. How soon? I guess timeline and budget should be very firmly on the agenda for the next #europython meeting (which will be on the 23rd of January, btw). I would like to avoid having anything to do with the budget :) Cheers, mwh -- What the semicolon's anxious supporters fret about is the tendency of contemporary writers to use a dash instead of a semicolon and thus precipitate the end of the world. -- Lynne Truss, "Eats, Shoots & Leaves" From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Jan 10 14:27:30 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:27:30 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Site europython 2006 In-Reply-To: <200601101230.k0ACUECC021815@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> References: <43C29BE6.6030807@nuxeo.com> <43C2A09C.1050400@ita.chalmers.se> <20060110115554.GD2054@logilab.fr> <200601101230.k0ACUECC021815@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> Message-ID: <20060110132730.GE2054@logilab.fr> On Tue, Jan 10, 2006 at 01:30:14PM +0100, Laura Creighton wrote: > > No, more correct the first time. Many of the people who had used > Plone the year before _hated_ it. -1 but I completely agree with what paul said: let the people that do the actual work use the tool they want. what would be nice is that some kind soul finds a way to backup content (wget ?) of older sites to make sure it stays available over time. but as i can't, i won't complain if no one does. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Jan 10 14:31:11 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 14:31:11 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <2moe2kp86j.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <2moe2kp86j.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <20060110133111.GF2054@logilab.fr> > > - I would like to have a talk about CERN and the role of CERN in > > physics and computing science. Is there time for that? > > I'm sure we can make time :) Talk to Nicolas, I guess. If talking in the Science track is fine with you, consider yourself accepted as a speaker and please tell us everything we ever wish we knew about Python at CERN :) -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From aiste at pov.lt Tue Jan 10 18:20:55 2006 From: aiste at pov.lt (Aiste Kesminaite) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:55 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> Message-ID: <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Tracks and talks: > - Should we have a poster session? I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning talks fulfilling this need. One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to not have one person who chairs the whole track during the conference but rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the whole conference or most of it just in one track. Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for that track. What do people think about this change? - -- Aiste Kesminaite Managing director, Programmers of Vilnius Phone: +370 6563 6462 Email: aiste at pov.lt Web: www.pov.lt -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (Darwin) iD8DBQFDw+z2fK7m+cZVdY0RAjdnAJwIPqJxV1OVy3A4djSJsj7WwZ4R4gCfaGCQ wDmRAr2OfvHXjQgLzKsXi6c= =scmN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Tue Jan 10 18:31:22 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 18:31:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> Message-ID: On 10.01.2006, at 18:20, Aiste Kesminaite wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > >> Tracks and talks: >> - Should we have a poster session? > > I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning > talks fulfilling this need. > > One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion > about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to > not have one person who chairs the whole track during the > conference but > rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the > whole > conference or most of it just in one track. > > Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the > conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for > that track. > > What do people think about this change? +1 It's common for other conferences to split it up in that way. And it makes perfectly sense. Cheers Benedikt From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 10 18:43:19 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 17:43:19 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> (Aiste Kesminaite's message of "Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:55 +0200") References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> Message-ID: <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> Aiste Kesminaite writes: >> Tracks and talks: >> - Should we have a poster session? > > I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning > talks fulfilling this need. > > One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion > about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to > not have one person who chairs the whole track during the conference but > rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the whole > conference or most of it just in one track. > > Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the > conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for > that track. > > What do people think about this change? It makes sense to me. In other news, I'd like to have an IRC meeting for people considering being track chairs (in the before-the-conference sense) sometime in the next couple of weeks. As a strawman, I'd like to propose this Friday (the 13th) at 1500 GMT (so 1600 for those on the continent). Cheers, mwh -- MARVIN: Oh dear, I think you'll find reality's on the blink again. -- The Hitch-Hikers Guide to the Galaxy, Episode 12 From aiste at pov.lt Tue Jan 10 18:56:06 2006 From: aiste at pov.lt (Aiste Kesminaite) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:56:06 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <43C3F536.7050502@pov.lt> > In other news, I'd like to have an IRC meeting for people considering > being track chairs (in the before-the-conference sense) sometime in > the next couple of weeks. As a strawman, I'd like to propose this > Friday (the 13th) at 1500 GMT (so 1600 for those on the continent). I will be travelling this week and most likelly will not be online at any predictable time. Any time from 18:00 GMT next Tuesday (the 17th) is good for me. -- Aiste Kesminaite Managing director, Programmers of Vilnius Phone: +370 6563 6462 Email: aiste at pov.lt Web: www.pov.lt From lac at strakt.com Tue Jan 10 23:16:43 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 23:16:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: Message from Aiste Kesminaite of "Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:55 +0200." <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> Message-ID: <200601102216.k0AMGhKK010262@ratthing-b246.strakt.com> My scientist friends are very used to poster sessions, and say they like them. If we expect CERN to draw a substantial number of scientists, this might be friendly. Also, why either/or? Have posters _and_ give a lightning talk.... Laura In a message of Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:20:55 +0200, Aiste Kesminaite writes: >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >Hash: SHA1 > >> Tracks and talks: >> - Should we have a poster session? > >I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning >talks fulfilling this need. > >One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion >about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to >not have one person who chairs the whole track during the conference but >rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the whole >conference or most of it just in one track. > >Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the >conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for >that track. > >What do people think about this change? > >- -- >Aiste Kesminaite >Managing director, Programmers of Vilnius >Phone: +370 6563 6462 >Email: aiste at pov.lt >Web: www.pov.lt >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (Darwin) > >iD8DBQFDw+z2fK7m+cZVdY0RAjdnAJwIPqJxV1OVy3A4djSJsj7WwZ4R4gCfaGCQ >wDmRAr2OfvHXjQgLzKsXi6c= >=scmN >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >_______________________________________________ >EuroPython mailing list >EuroPython at python.org >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From asouzaleite at gmx.de Wed Jan 11 08:14:06 2006 From: asouzaleite at gmx.de (Aroldo Souza-Leite) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:14:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <43C4B03E.9000006@gmx.de> Michael Hudson schrieb: >Aiste Kesminaite writes: > > > >>>Tracks and talks: >>>- Should we have a poster session? >>> >>> >>I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning >>talks fulfilling this need. >> >>One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion >>about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to >>not have one person who chairs the whole track during the conference but >>rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the whole >>conference or most of it just in one track. >> >>Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the >>conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for >>that track. >> >>What do people think about this change? >> >> > >It makes sense to me. > >In other news, I'd like to have an IRC meeting for people considering >being track chairs (in the before-the-conference sense) sometime in >the next couple of weeks. As a strawman, I'd like to propose this >Friday (the 13th) at 1500 GMT (so 1600 for those on the continent). > >Cheers, >mwh > > > I'm not sure I'll have learned how to hook myself onto this abovementioned IRC object till the next session, but I'll try. In any case, if there is anything an utterly untechnical person could to in the preparation phase, I'm ready. For instance, taking care of the Education Track again would be allright with me, if there is going to be one. Cheers, Aroldo. From paul at zope-europe.org Wed Jan 11 09:57:02 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 09:57:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <7BE77D96-DCE9-4D1E-B9A3-401FDE23FA3D@zope-europe.org> On Jan 10, 2006, at 6:43 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: > Aiste Kesminaite writes: > >>> Tracks and talks: >>> - Should we have a poster session? >> >> I have no strong opinion about that but would lean to the lightning >> talks fulfilling this need. >> >> One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion >> about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a >> suggestion to >> not have one person who chairs the whole track during the >> conference but >> rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the >> whole >> conference or most of it just in one track. >> >> Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the >> conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for >> that track. >> >> What do people think about this change? > > It makes sense to me. +1 from me also. Track chair does preparation beforehand, track hosts manage presentations the day of the conference. > In other news, I'd like to have an IRC meeting for people considering > being track chairs (in the before-the-conference sense) sometime in > the next couple of weeks. As a strawman, I'd like to propose this > Friday (the 13th) at 1500 GMT (so 1600 for those on the continent). I'll be traveling that day, FWIW. --Paul From mwh at python.net Wed Jan 11 11:17:23 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:17:23 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43C3F536.7050502@pov.lt> (Aiste Kesminaite's message of "Tue, 10 Jan 2006 19:56:06 +0200") References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> <43C3F536.7050502@pov.lt> Message-ID: <2mbqyjt6fg.fsf@starship.python.net> Aiste Kesminaite writes: >> In other news, I'd like to have an IRC meeting for people considering >> being track chairs (in the before-the-conference sense) sometime in >> the next couple of weeks. As a strawman, I'd like to propose this >> Friday (the 13th) at 1500 GMT (so 1600 for those on the continent). > > I will be travelling this week and most likelly will not be online at > any predictable time. Any time from 18:00 GMT next Tuesday (the 17th) is > good for me. So it seems that this week isn't a good time for the meeting, and the latter half of next week is not good for the PyPyers because of our review. This pushes the track chair chat back beyond the next general meeting, so let's talk about it there. Cheers, mwh -- Worryingly, DEFUN appears to be a function that removes all the fun from something: after using it all your code is converted to C++. -- Tim Bradshaw, comp.lang.lisp From mwh at python.net Wed Jan 11 11:24:12 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2006 10:24:12 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43C4B03E.9000006@gmx.de> (Aroldo Souza-Leite's message of "Wed, 11 Jan 2006 08:14:06 +0100") References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> <2mk6d8ou6g.fsf@starship.python.net> <43C4B03E.9000006@gmx.de> Message-ID: <2m7j97t643.fsf@starship.python.net> Aroldo Souza-Leite writes: > I'm not sure I'll have learned how to hook myself onto this > abovementioned IRC object till the next session, but I'll try. > In any case, if there is anything an utterly untechnical person could to > in the preparation phase, I'm ready. For instance, taking care of the > Education Track again would be allright with me, if there is going to be > one. If by "taking care" you mean going and finding talks, that sounds great! Cheers, mwh -- this "I hate c++" is so old it's as old as C++, yes -- from Twisted.Quotes From gregweblists at googlemail.com Fri Jan 13 09:39:10 2006 From: gregweblists at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9goire_Weber?=) Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 09:39:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] PR: Get listed in a swiss OSS agenda (printed and electronic); deadline for printed version: 31.1.2006 In-Reply-To: References: <9fe139f50601090907x6e1f0537s@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9fe139f50601130039o39b9ee49i@mail.gmail.com> Hi Benedikt, May you (as German :-) ) read the instructions on the following page (or just fill out the form): http://www.ch-open.ch/sigs/ossroadmap/ If there are problems, just send me an e-mail. I know the responsible for this service. I may also post the event. Crucial for the event to attract as much people as possible is to have a good description text (max 500 chars). Gregoire 2006/1/10, Benedikt Hegner : > Hi Gr?goire, > > I can help with that. What do you need? > > Harald - do you still have the german PR text from 2005? > > Cheers > Benedikt > > > > -- > Benedikt Hegner, DESY FLC > Notkestr. 85, D-22607 Hamburg > Office: 1d/38a > Phone: +49 (0)40 8998 1797 > Fax: +49 (0)40 8998 1812 > > at CERN: > Office: 32/4b-20 > Phone: +41 (0)22 767 6487 > Fax: +41 (0)22 782 8923 > > > > On 09.01.2006, at 18:07, Gr?goire Weber wrote: > > > Hi everybody! > > > > There is a so called "OSS Roadmap" (agenda with OSS events): > > > > http://www.ch-open.ch/sigs/ossroadmap/ (german only) > > > > Partial translation to english: > > > > The association /ch/open (http://www.ch-open.ch) in corporation > > with IBM Switzerland (http://www.ibm.ch) will prepare a callendar > > (a so called OSS roadmap) with all Open Source activities in 2006. > > > > - There will be a printed version (deadline 31.1.2006) > > - and an electronic version (no deadlines) > > > > If I get some help I can have a look we get registered for the print > > version of this agenda. > > > > We should really get listed there! > > > > Gregoire > > _______________________________________________ > > EuroPython mailing list > > EuroPython at python.org > > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Mon Jan 16 11:03:22 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:03:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] europython website Message-ID: <5E9A623C-8AC2-446F-899D-A64634449D86@cern.ch> Hi all, sorry, it is a little bit late but I was quite busy the last days. Let me answer Michael's questions about Indico: This software was used before for other conferences and needs definitely no hand-holding or baby-sitting. The features are for example timetables, call for abstracts, registration, printing and everything related to the background work for track chairs (scheduling tracks, shifting talks, rejecting talks etc.). This software is free software (GPL), available as a package and yes - it can be used for the next conferences. It is not a big task to transfer a full conference (with talks, papers etc.) to another server. One major point - it is supported by a responsive developer group. We already have a running Europython test site at CERN ( http:// indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=44 ). In principle we have nothing more to do than to use it. (I can create all needed accounts) So I propose the following: programme, timetables, registration, call for abstracts and all the work the track chairs have to do should be done with the Indico solution. All other information like travel information, sponsors, public relation stuff can be put on a more or less simple CMS without fancy features. We have already some information prepared and need to fill it in somewhere. Personally I prefer Plone but I am happy with every other out-of-the-box solution. As Paul said - let's this year focus on content. Cheers Benedikt -- Benedikt Hegner, DESY FLC Notkestr. 85, D-22607 Hamburg Office: 1d/38a Phone: +49 (0)40 8998 1797 Fax: +49 (0)40 8998 1812 at CERN: Office: 32/4b-20 Phone: +41 (0)22 767 6487 Fax: +41 (0)22 782 8923 From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 16 11:13:15 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:13:15 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] europython website In-Reply-To: <5E9A623C-8AC2-446F-899D-A64634449D86@cern.ch> (Benedikt Hegner's message of "Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:03:22 +0100") References: <5E9A623C-8AC2-446F-899D-A64634449D86@cern.ch> Message-ID: <2macdwqy4k.fsf@starship.python.net> Benedikt Hegner writes: > Hi all, > > sorry, it is a little bit late but I was quite busy the last days. > Let me answer Michael's questions about Indico: > This software was used before for other conferences and needs > definitely no hand-holding or baby-sitting. The features are for > example timetables, call for abstracts, registration, printing and > everything related to the background work for track chairs > (scheduling tracks, shifting talks, rejecting talks etc.). This > software is free software (GPL), available as a package and yes - it > can be used for the next conferences. It is not a big task to > transfer a full conference (with talks, papers etc.) to another > server. One major point - it is supported by a responsive developer > group. This is all good -- I'd attempted to install it and failed and attempting to email the user group bounced, so I was getting a bit discouraged... > We already have a running Europython test site at CERN ( http:// > indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=44 ). In principle we have > nothing more to do than to use it. (I can create all needed accounts) Looks fine to me. Something I didn't see in the parts of indico I looked at was anything to do with submitting talks, though. > So I propose the following: > programme, timetables, registration, call for abstracts and all the > work the track chairs have to do should be done with the Indico > solution. All other information like travel information, sponsors, > public relation stuff can be put on a more or less simple CMS without > fancy features. We have already some information prepared and need to > fill it in somewhere. Personally I prefer Plone but I am happy with > every other out-of-the-box solution. You seem to have a start on this information in the indico instance already -- is there a need for another CMS? Cheers, mwh -- The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. -- Steve Jobs, (From _Triumph of the Nerds_ PBS special) and quoted by Aahz on comp.lang.python From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Mon Jan 16 11:22:50 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:22:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] europython website In-Reply-To: <2macdwqy4k.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <5E9A623C-8AC2-446F-899D-A64634449D86@cern.ch> <2macdwqy4k.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: Hello Michael, > > This is all good -- I'd attempted to install it and failed and > attempting to email the user group bounced, so I was getting a bit > discouraged... Hmm.... what's the address you've tried? >> We already have a running Europython test site at CERN ( http:// >> indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=44 ). In principle we have >> nothing more to do than to use it. (I can create all needed accounts) > > Looks fine to me. Something I didn't see in the parts of indico I > looked at was anything to do with submitting talks, though. It's in there but not accessible for the public. >> So I propose the following: >> programme, timetables, registration, call for abstracts and all the >> work the track chairs have to do should be done with the Indico >> solution. All other information like travel information, sponsors, >> public relation stuff can be put on a more or less simple CMS without >> fancy features. We have already some information prepared and need to >> fill it in somewhere. Personally I prefer Plone but I am happy with >> every other out-of-the-box solution. > > You seem to have a start on this information in the indico instance > already -- is there a need for another CMS? Yes and no - for the sprints I would like to have a wiki which is not possible in Indico as far as I know. Cheers Benedikt From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 16 11:37:31 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2006 10:37:31 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] europython website In-Reply-To: (Benedikt Hegner's message of "Mon, 16 Jan 2006 11:22:50 +0100") References: <5E9A623C-8AC2-446F-899D-A64634449D86@cern.ch> <2macdwqy4k.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <2m64okqx04.fsf@starship.python.net> Benedikt Hegner writes: > Hello Michael, > >> >> This is all good -- I'd attempted to install it and failed and >> attempting to email the user group bounced, so I was getting a bit >> discouraged... > Hmm.... what's the address you've tried? project-indico-usergroup at cern.ch, from http://indico.web.cern.ch/indico/user_group.html >>> We already have a running Europython test site at CERN ( http:// >>> indico.cern.ch/conferenceDisplay.py?confId=44 ). In principle we have >>> nothing more to do than to use it. (I can create all needed accounts) >> >> Looks fine to me. Something I didn't see in the parts of indico I >> looked at was anything to do with submitting talks, though. > It's in there but not accessible for the public. Well, the way previous EuroPython's have gone is to put out a call for papers and invite submissions from the public. A goodly fraction of talks actually result from the track chairs going and finding them, of course, but open submission is important, I think. >>> So I propose the following: >>> programme, timetables, registration, call for abstracts and all the >>> work the track chairs have to do should be done with the Indico >>> solution. All other information like travel information, sponsors, >>> public relation stuff can be put on a more or less simple CMS without >>> fancy features. We have already some information prepared and need to >>> fill it in somewhere. Personally I prefer Plone but I am happy with >>> every other out-of-the-box solution. >> >> You seem to have a start on this information in the indico instance >> already -- is there a need for another CMS? > Yes and no - for the sprints I would like to have a wiki which is not > possible in Indico as far as I know. OK. Wikis are easy -- python.org has one, for starters... Cheers, mwh -- Hiro dicks about with his computer, naturally. Being stranded on a life raft in the Pacific is a perfect venue for a hacker. -- Snow Crash, Neal Stephenson From mal at egenix.com Wed Jan 18 12:22:43 2006 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:22:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43C3ECF7.9080402@pov.lt> Message-ID: <43CE2503.7050005@egenix.com> > One more thing related to tracks and talks -- there was a discussion > about changing track chairing format -- i.e. there was a suggestion to > not have one person who chairs the whole track during the conference but > rather have several people do it so no one would have to spend the whole > conference or most of it just in one track. > > Taking care of choosing talks for a particular track prior to the > conference would still be done by one or a few people responsible for > that track. > > What do people think about this change? FWIW: We've done that for the Python Framework track last year and it worked out great. The only question that came up was how to treat the track chairs vs. the hosts with respect to the conference fee. We chose to simply sign up as speaker or standard attendee (most hosts were speakers). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 18 2006) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: From mal at egenix.com Wed Jan 18 12:28:10 2006 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:28:10 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> Message-ID: <43CE264A.4050107@egenix.com> Benedikt Hegner wrote: > Hi all! > > Some comments and information from the local organizers on epc2006: Could you remind us on the dates ? Thanks, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 18 2006) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Wed Jan 18 12:32:07 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:32:07 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <43CE264A.4050107@egenix.com> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43CE264A.4050107@egenix.com> Message-ID: <2F4D359D-5036-4960-9521-D4355DA8010A@cern.ch> Mon 3 July to Wed 5 July. And the sprints are from 30 June to 9 July. Cheers Benedikt > Benedikt Hegner wrote: >> Hi all! >> >> Some comments and information from the local organizers on epc2006: > > Could you remind us on the dates ? > > Thanks, > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > eGenix.com > > Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 18 > 2006) >>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http:// >>>> www.egenix.com/ >>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http:// >>>> zope.egenix.com/ >>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http:// >>>> python.egenix.com/ > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > > ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for > free ! :::: From mal at egenix.com Wed Jan 18 12:46:19 2006 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:46:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] preparations at CERN In-Reply-To: <2F4D359D-5036-4960-9521-D4355DA8010A@cern.ch> References: <64361CA3-0C9B-4B70-98AC-0A0A5D323A78@cern.ch> <43CE264A.4050107@egenix.com> <2F4D359D-5036-4960-9521-D4355DA8010A@cern.ch> Message-ID: <43CE2A8B.3070002@egenix.com> Benedikt Hegner wrote: > Mon 3 July to Wed 5 July. > And the sprints are from 30 June to 9 July. Thank you ! > Cheers > Benedikt > > >> Benedikt Hegner wrote: >>> Hi all! >>> >>> Some comments and information from the local organizers on epc2006: >> >> Could you remind us on the dates ? >> >> Thanks, >> -- Marc-Andre Lemburg >> eGenix.com >> >> Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 18 2006) >>>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ >> ________________________________________________________________________ >> >> ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 18 2006) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 23 11:04:31 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 10:04:31 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] irc meeting this afternoon Message-ID: <2m1wyzntu8.fsf@starship.python.net> I believe we agreed to have an irc meeting in #europython at 1700 central european time tonight. I intend to be there but first I have to work out how to get past the firewall at the PyPy sprint... Cheers, mwh -- [1] If you're lost in the woods, just bury some fibre in the ground carrying data. Fairly soon a JCB will be along to cut it for you - follow the JCB back to civilsation/hitch a lift. -- Simon Burr, cam.misc From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Mon Jan 23 16:54:56 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:54:56 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] local organizers update Message-ID: Hi all, before the meeting just some information. Keynote speakers: Would you be interested in a keynote about World Wide Grid? This was one of the ideas we had when discussing this topic in our meeting. For the people who asked: Tim Berners-Lee is to expensive for us (think alone of the travel costs from USA). Conference dinner proposal: Rillettes de saumon sur saladine Supreme de poulet ?provencale? Entremet aux fruits **** Terrine de Rouget Longe de veau rotie au Noilly Prat Salade de fruits rouges **** Salade estivale (jambon cru/melon) Cornet de truite aux petits legumes Foret noire **** Garniture de saison selon le choix No proposal for the vegetarian menu yet. Budget breakdown: lunch will not be included for several reasons. The prices for lunch have a wide range. From simple sandwich to a full blown lunch everything is possible. Providing coupons we would limit for example in Restaurant 1 the choice to the standard menus Proton, Neutron (what else should meals for physicists be named after ;-)) and vegetarian. And because we will not get any rebates (too bad) we decided to exclude lunch from the conference fee. So what's included then: - a personal folder with information about the conference, the site... - coffee breaks (coffee, tee, croissant, juice, water, biscuits) - drink - conference dinner - access cards (yes. we probably have to pay for stupid plastic cards to access the cern area) - guided tour to one of the big experiment areas for 100 participants. - some infrastructure (e.g. a room with terminals for people without a portable) This makes in total costs of roughly 65 Euro per Person. Could be 2 Euros more or less. Some items are not yet clear. I know - it's a lot Then we have the expenses for Keynote speakers and grants for some speakers. Extrapolated from the numbers I got for last year it's about 8000 Euro. With a low estimate of 250 participants that would make (together with 1000 printed stuff, 1000 reserve) about 25,000 Euro to finance the conference at the local site. My conservative idea for the fees (new/old): 50/70 Euro for Speakers (yes. cheaper than our costs per person. Otherwise it would be more expensive than last year if you think of the lunch.) Students 65/100 Euro (early bird) 100/150 Euro (normal) 150/200 Euro (at door) Other participants: 120/160 Euro (early bird) 190/220 Euro (normal) 240/270 Euro (at door) I based my calculation on these numbers: 20 staff 60 Speakers 75 early birds 60 Normal 25 early bird students 10 students If we scale this up to 300 participants the fees could be reduced a lot. Website: A simple but nice looking website for PR about europython in general, with some information about the past conferences and a link to the new one. I will help with the content (which is already there in parts). All other information is on our local website at CERN. But there we are a little bit limited in matters of eye-candy layouts. That's the reason why I think we need such a website. Deadlines: We have to discuss the deadlines for talk submission, early birds, normal registration etc. And we need a deadline for announcing the conference. Official Europython Society stuff: Would it make sense to open a bank account somewhere in a country with the Euro? The next conference will probably be in another "Euro- Country". Now with an account in Sweden it will be a conversion from Euro to Swedish Crowns, then back to Euro and some Swiss francs. That's waste of money. That's all for the moment. Waiting for your comments :-) Cheers Benedikt From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 23 17:33:46 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:33:46 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] local organizers update In-Reply-To: (Benedikt Hegner's message of "Mon, 23 Jan 2006 16:54:56 +0100") References: Message-ID: <2mk6cqnbth.fsf@starship.python.net> Benedikt Hegner writes: > My conservative idea for the fees (new/old): > 50/70 Euro for Speakers (yes. cheaper than our costs per person. > Otherwise it would be more expensive than last year if you think of > the lunch.) We had absolutely loads of speakers last year, which is fun in some ways but hurt the bottom line. I think we should feel free to charge them more (PyCon charges speakers full price, and doesn't seem short of talks. I'm not sure we should go that far). Cheers, mwh -- Strangely enough I saw just such a beast at the grocery store last night. Starbucks sells Javachip. (It's ice cream, but that shouldn't be an obstacle for the Java marketing people.) -- Jeremy Hylton, 29 Apr 1997 From paul at zope-europe.org Mon Jan 23 17:41:40 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:41:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] local organizers update In-Reply-To: <2mk6cqnbth.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mk6cqnbth.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <078D8930-8DDE-4FD4-91B1-F2DB9E69F412@zope-europe.org> On Jan 23, 2006, at 5:33 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: > Benedikt Hegner writes: > >> My conservative idea for the fees (new/old): >> 50/70 Euro for Speakers (yes. cheaper than our costs per person. >> Otherwise it would be more expensive than last year if you think of >> the lunch.) > > We had absolutely loads of speakers last year, which is fun in some > ways but hurt the bottom line. I think we should feel free to charge > them more (PyCon charges speakers full price, and doesn't seem short > of talks. I'm not sure we should go that far). I agree with your point. Equally, we have some people that put in talk submissions not because they plan to do a good job on their talk, but rather they just want a lower fee. Negative incentive. :^) --Paul From mwh at python.net Mon Jan 23 18:06:09 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 17:06:09 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Track Chair meeting 31st January Message-ID: <2mfynenabi.fsf@starship.python.net> As discussed in today's more general IRC meeting, I'd like to have a meeting on the #europython channel on freenode at 5pm centraol european time to discuss issues to do with the chairing of tracks (chairing of tracks in the before-conference sense). Basically, we should talk about which tracks we want, what we will call them and who will coordinate the process of finding talks for them. If you are interested in this latter role, please attend. Ideally, after this meeting we'd be able to write a Call For Papers. Cheers, mwh -- . <- the point your article -> . |------------------------- a long way ------------------------| -- Christophe Rhodes, ucam.chat From hpk at trillke.net Mon Jan 23 18:19:48 2006 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:19:48 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 Message-ID: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Hi folks, here are my brief notes/minutes about the EuroPython meeting today, hope i got everything correctly. Next Meeting is 6th February 2006, 5pm CET (60 minutes max) and will be moderated by Aiste - send her or the europython list your agenda topics. cheers, holger EuroPython Orga Meeting 23rd January 2006 ---------------------------------------------- Time & Location: #europython 23rd Jan 2006, 5pm-6pm CET Attendees: Paul Everitt, Michael Hudson, Benedikt Hegner, Holger Krekel (moderation), Aiste Kesminaite, Jacob Hallen, Alexander Schremm (xorAxAx), Christian Scholz (MrTopf), Harald Armin Massa (ghum) the meeting was ad-hoc moderated by holger. * Discussion about "Zope" track Paul suggests to go for a "Web Frameworks Track" instead of limiting it to Zope. He thinks that this should help to get more cross-pollination going within the python web framework communities. There would likely be a quota on Zope talks then. The ideas were welcomed by the attendees and will likely be followed up on the mailing list and on the upcoming track chair meeting. * conference fees Benedikt sent a mail to the EuroPython list short before the meeting about price calculations. Apart from the fact that a some people want higher speaker prices the prices are reasonable. The fee calculations should be decided upon at the next EuroPython Meeting. * deadlines The meeting came up with the following rought timeline: 15th February Call for Proposals March Opening online Registration (Payment issue pending!) 31st March Deadline for proposal submissions 30th April Prelininary Program with accepted talks 19th May Closing Early Bird registration * Renaming EuroPython to Pycon idea Holger mentions the idea of renaming EuroPython to Pycon. The idea is generally welcomed but a number of people think that we should not tackle this for 2006. Everybody agrees that heading for some more discussions with organisers from non-europe Python conferences e.g. at Pycon 2006 makes sense. The guiding idea is to have a worldwide naming/context umbrella for Python conferences. * next dates: 31st January 5pm Track-Chair Meeting (moderation + agenda: Michael) 6th February 5pm EuroPython Meeting (moderation + agenda: Aiste) somewhat open topics: * decision/procedures on conference software (favourite seems to be Benedikt's CERN solution for now) * followup on payment procedures/accounts (IBAN + Creditcard payment possibilities desired) * Website ??? From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Mon Jan 23 18:34:04 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:34:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <20060123173404.GN2067@logilab.fr> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 06:19:48PM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > * Renaming EuroPython to Pycon idea > Holger mentions the idea of renaming EuroPython to Pycon. -1*10 > The idea is generally welcomed but a number of people think > that we should not tackle this for 2006. Everybody agrees > that heading for some more discussions with organisers > from non-europe Python conferences e.g. at Pycon 2006 > makes sense. +1 > The guiding idea is to have a worldwide > naming/context umbrella for Python conferences. Why would that be necessary ? IMHO, having two names for two very distinct events is perfect. At the moment you know that PyCon means US and EuroPython means Europe. I would welcome PyAsia or LatinaPy, etc. and try to get there. But if every Python Conference is named PyCon, you'll have: A: Will I meet you at PyCon 2007 ? B: Which one, the one in Europe or the one in the US ? A: EuroPyCon. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From paul at zope-europe.org Mon Jan 23 18:44:50 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:44:50 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: On Jan 23, 2006, at 6:19 PM, holger krekel wrote: > * Discussion about "Zope" track > > Paul suggests to go for a "Web Frameworks Track" instead > of limiting it to Zope. He thinks that this should > help to get more cross-pollination going within the > python web framework communities. There would likely > be a quota on Zope talks then. The ideas were welcomed > by the attendees and will likely be followed up > on the mailing list and on the upcoming track chair > meeting. To add some more background on this point, Zope would like to be less of an island in the Python community. I think Zope has much to offer, especially in Zope 3, where interesting parts can be used in isolation. I also think Zope has lots to gain from Python and other Python web frameworks. There's tons of exciting stuff going on in the Python web frameworks space. Finally, I think Python itself is facing strong competition in Python web frameworks. We (the Python web frameworks) should recognize this and work together more to tell a better story. Having a Zope mini-event inside the EuroPython main event has worked well for a number years. I think times have changed, though, and we should all hang out together and listen to what the others have to offer. --Paul From paul at zope-europe.org Mon Jan 23 18:47:51 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 18:47:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <93E07978-AA13-4C61-9D81-F4B10FF5BCF1@zope-europe.org> Oops... On Jan 23, 2006, at 6:44 PM, Paul Everitt wrote: > > On Jan 23, 2006, at 6:19 PM, holger krekel wrote: > >> * Discussion about "Zope" track >> >> Paul suggests to go for a "Web Frameworks Track" instead >> of limiting it to Zope. He thinks that this should >> help to get more cross-pollination going within the >> python web framework communities. There would likely >> be a quota on Zope talks then. The ideas were welcomed >> by the attendees and will likely be followed up >> on the mailing list and on the upcoming track chair >> meeting. > > To add some more background on this point, Zope would like to be less > of an island in the Python community. I think Zope has much to > offer, especially in Zope 3, where interesting parts can be used in > isolation. I also think Zope has lots to gain from Python and other > Python web frameworks. There's tons of exciting stuff going on in > the Python web frameworks space. > > Finally, I think Python itself is facing strong competition in Python ^^^^ Omit the second "Python". --Paul > web frameworks. We (the Python web frameworks) should recognize this > and work together more to tell a better story. > > Having a Zope mini-event inside the EuroPython main event has worked > well for a number years. I think times have changed, though, and we > should all hang out together and listen to what the others have to > offer. > > --Paul > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > From tziade at nuxeo.com Mon Jan 23 19:13:35 2006 From: tziade at nuxeo.com (=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Tarek_Ziad=E9?=) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:13:35 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <43D51CCF.6000105@nuxeo.com> holger krekel wrote: >* Renaming EuroPython to Pycon idea > Holger mentions the idea of renaming EuroPython to Pycon. > The idea is generally welcomed but a number of people think > that we should not tackle this for 2006. Everybody agrees > that heading for some more discussions with organisers > from non-europe Python conferences e.g. at Pycon 2006 > makes sense. The guiding idea is to have a worldwide > naming/context umbrella for Python conferences. > > -1 unless it's named EuroPycon The worldwide naming/context is already present: Python (or Pycon) This would be very confusing imo to have two events with the very same name Tarek -- Tarek Ziad? | Nuxeo R&D (Paris, France) CPS Plateform : http://www.cps-project.org mail: tziade at nuxeo.com | tel: +33 (0) 6 30 37 02 63 You need Zope 3 - http://www.z3lab.org/ From hpk at trillke.net Mon Jan 23 19:48:51 2006 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 19:48:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <43D51CCF.6000105@nuxeo.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D51CCF.6000105@nuxeo.com> Message-ID: <20060123184851.GC13417@solar.trillke.net> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 19:13 +0100, Tarek Ziad? wrote: > holger krekel wrote: > > >* Renaming EuroPython to Pycon idea > > Holger mentions the idea of renaming EuroPython to Pycon. > > The idea is generally welcomed but a number of people think > > that we should not tackle this for 2006. Everybody agrees > > that heading for some more discussions with organisers > > from non-europe Python conferences e.g. at Pycon 2006 > > makes sense. The guiding idea is to have a worldwide > > naming/context umbrella for Python conferences. > > > > > -1 unless it's named EuroPycon > > The worldwide naming/context is already present: Python (or Pycon) > This would be very confusing imo to have two events with the very same name We didn't yet motivate the idea much here on the list and neither at the meeting. Basically it's an idea that relates to PR/marketing. Having Pycon US, Pycon Europe, Pycon Brasil etc. would show that Python has a world wide connected developer community. It's certainly not about having the exactly same name. Btw, people already expressed at the meeting that they would only consider it if the US guys would append some regional suffix as well. Anyway, let's not go wild at the idea for 2006 unless we want to definitely exclude the consideration at all ... but that didn't appear so at todays #europython meeting, at least. Actually the "Zope" webframework renaming was supposed to be the thread-spawning discussion :) cheers, holger From js at aixtraware.de Mon Jan 23 20:27:51 2006 From: js at aixtraware.de (Joachim Schmitz) Date: Mon, 23 Jan 2006 20:27:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <43D52E37.8060607@aixtraware.de> holger krekel wrote: > Hi folks, > somewhat open topics: > > * decision/procedures on conference software (favourite seems > to be Benedikt's CERN solution for now) I can offer to port my conference-product, which was used for EPC2002, to EPC2004 to CPS. The Call-for proposals part can be ready 15.2.2006. > * followup on payment procedures/accounts (IBAN + Creditcard > payment possibilities desired) Independent which conference system will be used I can offer to integrate the WorldPay-Creditcard system which was used on all EPC's into whatever registration system is used, as long it is WEB-based. > * Website ??? Wouldn't it be best to reuse the WEB-site from last year. Certainly, there has to be a lokal administrator for it. -- Mit freundlichen Gr??en Joachim Schmitz ...................................................................... AixtraWare eK ..Joachim Schmitz ..www.aixtraware.de ..t: +49-2464-8851 H?sgenstr. 33a .....d-52457 Aldenhoven .............f: +49-2464-905163 From asouzaleite at gmx.de Wed Jan 25 08:29:49 2006 From: asouzaleite at gmx.de (Aroldo Souza-Leite) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:49 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D52E37.8060607@aixtraware.de> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D52E37.8060607@aixtraware.de> Message-ID: <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> Hi list, a Python software solution for the Europython conference would be cool. If there is someone (Joachim Schmitz) prepared to configure it using the experience of the last conferences, it seems to me that this little bit of Python sectarianism won't keep us from concentrating on the conference content. Joachim, if you think I can help more than disturb in any task, please tell me. Cheers. Aroldo. Joachim Schmitz schrieb: >holger krekel wrote: > > >>Hi folks, >> >> > > > > >>somewhat open topics: >> >>* decision/procedures on conference software (favourite seems >> to be Benedikt's CERN solution for now) >> >> > >I can offer to port my conference-product, which was used for EPC2002, >to EPC2004 to CPS. The Call-for proposals part can be ready 15.2.2006. > > > >>* followup on payment procedures/accounts (IBAN + Creditcard >> payment possibilities desired) >> >> > >Independent which conference system will be used I can offer to >integrate the WorldPay-Creditcard system which was used on all EPC's >into whatever registration system is used, as long it is WEB-based. > > > >>* Website ??? >> >> >Wouldn't it be best to reuse the WEB-site from last year. Certainly, >there has to be a lokal administrator for it. > > > > From mwh at python.net Wed Jan 25 10:16:47 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 09:16:47 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> (Aroldo Souza-Leite's message of "Wed, 25 Jan 2006 08:29:49 +0100") References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D52E37.8060607@aixtraware.de> <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> Message-ID: <2mpsmglla8.fsf@starship.python.net> Aroldo Souza-Leite writes: > Hi list, > > a Python software solution for the Europython conference would be cool. > If there is someone (Joachim Schmitz) prepared to configure it using the > experience of the last conferences, it seems to me that this little bit > of Python sectarianism won't keep us from concentrating on the > conference content. FWIW, CERN's indico conference software is written in Python too (and is open source, gpl I believe). I also failed in my attempt to install it, though... Cheers, mwh -- CLiki pages can be edited by anybody at any time. Imagine the most fearsomely comprehensive legal disclaimer you have ever seen, and double it -- http://ww.telent.net/cliki/index From jacob at strakt.com Wed Jan 25 17:38:57 2006 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob Hallen) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 17:38:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <2mpsmglla8.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> <2mpsmglla8.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> onsdag 25 januari 2006 10.16 skrev Michael Hudson: > Aroldo Souza-Leite writes: > > Hi list, > > > > a Python software solution for the Europython conference would be cool. > > If there is someone (Joachim Schmitz) prepared to configure it using the > > experience of the last conferences, it seems to me that this little bit > > of Python sectarianism won't keep us from concentrating on the > > conference content. > > FWIW, CERN's indico conference software is written in Python too (and > is open source, gpl I believe). I also failed in my attempt to > install it, though... When making the choice of registration software, there are some rather important points to consider. 1. The software has to work on the day we start taking registrations. This may sound self evident, but we have had problems in the past. Using something that has been tested saves a lot of grief. 2. The software needs to do a good job in supporting all the actors using the system. This means that speakers and attendees should have an easy time registering. The track chairs should be able to view and handle all the talks in their tracks. The schedulers needs to have support for scheduling. The registration administrators must have access to many different views and a powerful search interface. Last year I was able to place a payment by searching for all attendees from the UK who had ordered a T-shirt and for whom a payment was not yet registered. There were many other such incidents where the search interface saved many hours of work. 3. Producing quality outputs is essential. There are 3 major products and some minor ones needed. a) Invoices. You must be able to produce invoices in accordance with legal requirements. The smallest amount of work for the organisers is generated if attendees can print their own invoices. Don't expect everyone to manage to print an invoice at registration. You need an interface so they can come back and make a separate printout. They need fields for entering an organisation number and other reference information on the invoice. You must put the attendee information in a place that is not part of the address fields, or some organisations will complain. You must have complete payment information on invoices. b) Badges. A lot of work went into making name tags that are actually readable and that contain useful information. I decided to go for name, organisation, email address and country (plus attendee category) as useful information to put on the badge. Email address was made in a smaller and harder to read print, because I wanted that bit of information to be a bit harder to access. If the badge holder wants to give it out, he/she can point to the badge. All the major fields require scaling, as some individuals have very long names or organisation names, while most people have reasonably short ones. Adjusting everyone for the longest names means that everyone gets badges that are impossible to read. c) Programme Making a printable programme with all necessary content is not a trivial exercise. So far we have been relying on the software of Reportlab for this task. It has the nice feature of allowing each attendee to print a customised programme. d) Statistics You should be able to generate statistics lengthwise and crosswise. How many staff, track chairs, speakers, students, early birds, on-sites, no-shows, people from different countries etc. e) Talk materials You need places to store these and make them available to attendees and to the general public. Moving to a solution that doesn't support these things would be a regression, as would having a registration procedure that does not build on the lessons we have learned in previous years of Europython. Getting it right was actually hard work. This said, I'll be just as happy not doing registration with the CAPS system, as it would require a bit of work from me. However, I think that the CAPS system encapsulates the lessons we have learned in a way that the other proposals are unlikely to do. For the website with information about the conference, what we had the last 2 years was hopelessly over-engineered. There is need for some fairly advanced templating, which allows for the display of banner ads, unified dropdown menus and such, but the content management behind has really been in the way of collaborative work on the website. The ideal solution from my horizon would be a very small directory tree with a simple include mechanism and files written in either xhtml or Rest. The webserver would handle the includes, the Rest translations and finally fill in the dynamic content before serving up a webpage. Doing Plone or CPS for handling a site of about 25 web pages is as impractical as shooting mosquitos with an anti-aircraft gun. Jacob Hall?n From steve at canonical.com Wed Jan 25 17:51:43 2006 From: steve at canonical.com (Steve Alexander) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 18:51:43 +0200 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> <2mpsmglla8.fsf@starship.python.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D7AC9F.9060206@canonical.com> > For the website with information about the conference, what we had the last 2 > years was hopelessly over-engineered. There is need for some fairly advanced > templating, which allows for the display of banner ads, unified dropdown > menus and such, but the content management behind has really been in the way > of collaborative work on the website. The ideal solution from my horizon > would be a very small directory tree with a simple include mechanism and > files written in either xhtml or Rest. The webserver would handle the > includes, the Rest translations and finally fill in the dynamic content > before serving up a webpage. Doing Plone or CPS for handling a site of about > 25 web pages is as impractical as shooting mosquitos with an anti-aircraft > gun. The Ubuntu linux distribution has recently moved its website from Plone to a MoinMoin wiki, with some customized moin style files. I think a MoinMoin wiki meets the basic needs you outlined above. -- Steve Alexander From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Wed Jan 25 19:29:18 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Wed, 25 Jan 2006 19:29:18 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <43D728ED.8010805@gmx.de> <2mpsmglla8.fsf@starship.python.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> Jacob Hallen wrote: > >This said, I'll be just as happy not doing registration with the CAPS system, >as it would require a bit of work from me. However, I think that the CAPS >system encapsulates the lessons we have learned in a way that the other >proposals are unlikely to do. > >For the website with information about the conference, what we had the last 2 >years was hopelessly over-engineered. There is need for some fairly advanced >templating, which allows for the display of banner ads, unified dropdown >menus and such, but the content management behind has really been in the way >of collaborative work on the website. The ideal solution from my horizon >would be a very small directory tree with a simple include mechanism and >files written in either xhtml or Rest. The webserver would handle the >includes, the Rest translations and finally fill in the dynamic content >before serving up a webpage. Doing Plone or CPS for handling a site of about >25 web pages is as impractical as shooting mosquitos with an anti-aircraft >gun. > >Jacob Hall?n > > There are 120 pages on the current europython site (not 25). Doing that on a wiki with banners, menus, ... is not completely as trivial as you suggest (see for instance what you'll get with a wiki http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2006 ) Concerning registration most conferences I've attended handled registration via email or via fax (cf http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/register.html) or via simple HTML/CGI forms. They certainly use some desktop software to organize talks, attendees, schedules, but I don't see the value of doing this through the web. It is definitely overkill and cumbersome as it proved out to be during last year's conference. /JM From jacob at strakt.com Thu Jan 26 15:17:21 2006 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob Hallen) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:17:21 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> onsdag 25 januari 2006 19.29 skrev Jean-Marc Orliaguet: > Jacob Hallen wrote: > >This said, I'll be just as happy not doing registration with the CAPS > > system, as it would require a bit of work from me. However, I think that > > the CAPS system encapsulates the lessons we have learned in a way that > > the other proposals are unlikely to do. > > > >For the website with information about the conference, what we had the > > last 2 years was hopelessly over-engineered. There is need for some > > fairly advanced templating, which allows for the display of banner ads, > > unified dropdown menus and such, but the content management behind has > > really been in the way of collaborative work on the website. The ideal > > solution from my horizon would be a very small directory tree with a > > simple include mechanism and files written in either xhtml or Rest. The > > webserver would handle the includes, the Rest translations and finally > > fill in the dynamic content before serving up a webpage. Doing Plone or > > CPS for handling a site of about 25 web pages is as impractical as > > shooting mosquitos with an anti-aircraft gun. > > > >Jacob Hall?n > > There are 120 pages on the current europython site (not 25). Doing that > on a wiki with banners, menus, ... is not completely as trivial as you > suggest (see for instance what you'll get with a wiki > http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2006 ) I count 25 distinct pages that are viewable by visitors to the site, plus a few off-site links. I don't know what the other 95 pages do. They seem to be overhead to me. I'm not suggesting that building the website is completely trivial.I'm saying that the solutions we have seen so far have made the job more difficult than it needs to be. Laura Creighton and I were the main content providers both for the 2005 and the 2004 conferences. We found that Plone imposed a number of limitations on the overall look of the website, and that it had a cumbersome interface for entering content. CPS fixed the limitations of the overall look, but imposed arbitrary limitations on page design (for instance, I could not scale pictures as I liked). It also has a workflow model that is unsuitable for close collaboration on individual pages,as you are supposed to develop pages in your own sandbox and then publish them. We ended up building everything in the published space and giving full privileges to everything to everyone wanting to do any modifications. > Concerning registration most conferences I've attended handled > registration via email or via fax (cf > http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/register.html) or via simple HTML/CGI > forms. They certainly use some desktop software to organize talks, > attendees, schedules, but I don't see the value of doing this through > the web. It is definitely overkill and cumbersome as it proved out to be > during last year's conference. For these conferences, how did they produce badges? How did they produce invoices? How much time did they spend on handling administrative matters? How many problems tracking payments did they have? What sort of organisation did they have backing the conference (perhaps that organisation already had an accounting system and a secretary doing a whole lot of typing)? Did they actually take into account the individual preferences of the attendees, or did they just create a schedule on speculation? Were the organisers, each with his own needs for information, spread over a whole continent? How did they distribute proceedings? How much did their overheads cost? What did you consider to be cumbersome with the handling of talks and scheduling during last years conference? Jacob Hall?n From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Thu Jan 26 15:22:24 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:22:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D8DB20.6020708@ita.chalmers.se> Jacob Hallen wrote: >onsdag 25 januari 2006 19.29 skrev Jean-Marc Orliaguet: > > >>Jacob Hallen wrote: >> >> >>>This said, I'll be just as happy not doing registration with the CAPS >>>system, as it would require a bit of work from me. However, I think that >>>the CAPS system encapsulates the lessons we have learned in a way that >>>the other proposals are unlikely to do. >>> >>>For the website with information about the conference, what we had the >>>last 2 years was hopelessly over-engineered. There is need for some >>>fairly advanced templating, which allows for the display of banner ads, >>>unified dropdown menus and such, but the content management behind has >>>really been in the way of collaborative work on the website. The ideal >>>solution from my horizon would be a very small directory tree with a >>>simple include mechanism and files written in either xhtml or Rest. The >>>webserver would handle the includes, the Rest translations and finally >>>fill in the dynamic content before serving up a webpage. Doing Plone or >>>CPS for handling a site of about 25 web pages is as impractical as >>>shooting mosquitos with an anti-aircraft gun. >>> >>>Jacob Hall?n >>> >>> >>There are 120 pages on the current europython site (not 25). Doing that >>on a wiki with banners, menus, ... is not completely as trivial as you >>suggest (see for instance what you'll get with a wiki >>http://wiki.python.org/moin/PyCon2006 ) >> >> > >I count 25 distinct pages that are viewable by visitors to the site, plus a >few off-site links. I don't know what the other 95 pages do. They seem to be >overhead to me. > >I'm not suggesting that building the website is completely trivial.I'm saying >that the solutions we have seen so far have made the job more difficult than >it needs to be. Laura Creighton and I were the main content providers both >for the 2005 and the 2004 conferences. We found that Plone imposed a number >of limitations on the overall look of the website, and that it had a >cumbersome interface for entering content. CPS fixed the limitations of the >overall look, but imposed arbitrary limitations on page design (for instance, >I could not scale pictures as I liked). It also has a workflow model that is >unsuitable for close collaboration on individual pages,as you are supposed to >develop pages in your own sandbox and then publish them. We ended up building >everything in the published space and giving full privileges to everything to >everyone wanting to do any modifications. > > > Images are scaled down to a certain limit to avoid breaking the page's design, the size might have been increased at will. Concerning the workflow, you misunderstood how it works hence you draw hasty conclusions. You are not supposed to create documents "in your own sandbox". Documents are created inside common workspaces. Contributors who have access to the workspaces can share documents as on a wiki, before publishing them. >>Concerning registration most conferences I've attended handled >>registration via email or via fax (cf >>http://www.python.org/pycon/2006/register.html) or via simple HTML/CGI >>forms. They certainly use some desktop software to organize talks, >>attendees, schedules, but I don't see the value of doing this through >>the web. It is definitely overkill and cumbersome as it proved out to be >>during last year's conference. >> >> > >For these conferences, how did they produce badges? How did they produce >invoices? How much time did they spend on handling administrative matters? >How many problems tracking payments did they have? What sort of organisation >did they have backing the conference (perhaps that organisation already had >an accounting system and a secretary doing a whole lot of typing)? Did they >actually take into account the individual preferences of the attendees, or >did they just create a schedule on speculation? Were the organisers, each >with his own needs for information, spread over a whole continent? How did >they distribute proceedings? How much did their overheads cost? > >What did you consider to be cumbersome with the handling of talks and >scheduling during last years conference? > >Jacob Hall?n > > I don't know how others do, they certainly use excel, MS word. I got the impression that it was an alpha version which was running last year, considering all the manual fixes that were done once the registration had opened. The security was very low since anyone could edit other's presentations. I'm simply saying that all the manual work that you did to get the system running might as well been spent on some desktop application instead. You may have spent more time building and fixing the system than the time that would have been needed to do the administrative work. /JM From dario at ita.chalmers.se Thu Jan 26 15:56:51 2006 From: dario at ita.chalmers.se (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?=) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:56:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> uh, this discussion, IMNSHO, is rapidly becoming non-interesting. And I am a bit upset at seeing the same discussion popup again and again. So, can we please just decide on what software to use? I am not interested in, at least as I perceive it, this covert blame-game that is currently going on. What happened, happende, let's not let it happen again. The problems we had we had were had for specific reasons - most of them had nothing to do with the technology. Bottom line: is the software ready or not? We need NOT to integrate the website with INFORMATION on the conference with any other conference reg.system, automated or manual. I've managed larger conferences that EPC without any automated systems. ust a website with info (edicted with a texteditor). So, how much time do folks that have interests in EPC using their software need to set up working environments so that the rest of us can evaluate? Perhaps there are more people than just Strakt and CERN interested in having their software evaluated? We need to have a decision on this soon. And please - let's keep the requirements at a sensible and practical level. Is 10 days enough time for the interested parties to set their systems up? /dario -- -- ------------------------------------------------------------------- Dario Lopez-K?sten, IT Systems & Services Chalmers University of Tech. Lyrics applied to programming & application design: "emancipate yourself from mental slavery" - redemption song, b. marley From lac at strakt.com Thu Jan 26 20:29:41 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 20:29:41 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: Message from =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Dario_Lopez-K=E4sten?= of "Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:56:51 +0100." <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 26 Jan 2006 15:56:51 +0100, Dario Lopez-K?sten writes: > >uh, this discussion, IMNSHO, is rapidly becoming non-interesting. And I >am a bit upset at seeing the same discussion popup again and again. > >So, can we please just decide on what software to use? I am not >interested in, at least as I perceive it, this covert blame-game that is >currently going on. This is not blame. This is a complete and unreconciable difference of opinion as to what is desirable in the way to do work. There is an important difference. There is a reason why Python has dozens and dozens of webframeworks and workflow systems. People who start off using any one often end up really unhappy because the design of the system does not match the way that they want to structure the work. And when they get really unhappy, they go off and write their own system. >What happened, happende, let's not let it happen again. The problems we >had we had were had for specific reasons - most of them had nothing to >do with the technology. They had everything to do with the technology, and whether the technology made it possible for them to do what it was they wanted to do in the way that they wanted to do it, or whether some things 'just couldn't be done' or 'were easier to do manually' and so on and so forth. These are the very working conditions that make people decide that one technology does not suit their needs and go get, or write another one. But given our diverse community, it is not surprising that we cannot find a fit which suits everybody. Consider CherryPy, to pick something that we aren't using, and as far as I know are not considering using, so should not unduly stress people out. I have heard both of these comments about CherryPy's likeness to PHP. It is 'a major strength that allows people to work in ways they prefer and enjoy', or 'an abomination, like the PHP it resembles, that makes it working with it an intolerable experience'. There is no hope in getting these two reviewers to meet in some happy middle. You might, if you worked hard at it, create a work experience that both of them dislike, but pleasing them both is impossible. There is a reason why we have so many webframeworks, and that does not reflect badly on us. People really, really, really do care about how they work, and really prefer to do things in ways that other people hate. Indeed, the same feature _often_ works that way. >Bottom line: is the software ready or not? > >We need NOT to integrate the website with INFORMATION on the conference >with any other conference reg.system, automated or manual. I've managed >larger conferences that EPC without any automated systems. ust a website >with info (edicted with a texteditor). What is relevant is whether the people who plan to manage EP2006 want integration, most definitely do not want integration, or do not care. >So, how much time do folks that have interests in EPC using their >software need to set up working environments so that the rest of us can >evaluate? I think that, should there be any evaluation to be done, only the people who have already planned to do a lot of work in organising the conference should do it. Otherwise we risk getting a system based on the needs and desires of irrelevant people. So if CERN is full of people who are already familiar with the CERN system and prefer to use it because it is what they know and are familiar with, then that would be reason enough for me to conclude they should use it. My problem is that so far I haven't heard from any knowledgable CERN system people. The people who were pushing it, were doing so, despite being unfamiliar with it. This is Proof by 'it must work, lots of people have used it'. But if there is one thing we have figured out, in enormous detail, is that 'working for lots of people' does not imply 'working for you' or even 'having what you would consider the most elementary and necessary features implemented'. People implement features in accordance to what they consider 'essential' and the variation among different tools is large. >Perhaps there are more people than just Strakt and CERN interested in >having their software evaluated? > >We need to have a decision on this soon. And please - let's keep the >requirements at a sensible and practical level. This is the problem. What one person considers 'an unreasonable requirement' somebody else considers 'an essential requirement'. > >Is 10 days enough time for the interested parties to set their systems up >? > >/dario What I would like to see is a discussion, or a report, or something from the CERN Europython organising team as to what it is that they want, in freatures, usability, whatever-. Now it may be that they are feeling inhibited in discussing it, because they would in general discuss this in French. I'd say, discuss or post it in French. I'd just like to make sure that you know what you want, ahead of time, and, should you prefer to use one system or another, that you have some reason for using it beyond 'it was developed here and we feel we have to use it' or 'why not?', or 'somebody told me it was cool'. Because I have already gone through the 'we should use some system because somebody else likes it' route. And the 'I never thought about it much, but surely any system would work in some reasonable way, they way I consider reasonable ... it ought to have the appropriate capabilities, even though I have never used it, just because' route. This is an invitation to an unbelievable amount of stress. You can make yourself sick over this. I want to spare you all this agony. I really and truly believe that the conference organisers should use a system they like and enjoy using. If you don't have a candidate, possibly because you have never used a system and you want to go try the Strakt system, to see if you like it, then we can set something up. If you already have some other system you know and love, this is fine with me too. The other thing this report would be useful for is to locate: 'who besides Benedikt is organising this thing'? Even with track chairs, Europython is way to much work for one person to handle the 'onsite preparation details'. If Benedikt needs help, then we need to hear about this as soon as possible. take care all, Laura From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Thu Jan 26 21:30:37 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:30:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> Laura Creighton wrote: > ..... > > >But given our diverse community, it is not surprising that we cannot >find a fit which suits everybody. Consider CherryPy, to pick >something that we aren't using, and as far as I know are not >considering using, so should not unduly stress people out. I have >heard both of these comments about CherryPy's likeness to PHP. It is >'a major strength that allows people to work in ways they prefer and >enjoy', or 'an abomination, like the PHP it resembles, that makes it >working with it an intolerable experience'. There is no hope in >getting these two reviewers to meet in some happy middle. You might, >if you worked hard at it, create a work experience that both of them >dislike, but pleasing them both is impossible. > >There is a reason why we have so many webframeworks, and that does >not reflect badly on us. People really, really, really do care about >how they work, and really prefer to do things in ways that other people >hate. Indeed, the same feature _often_ works that way. > > But finding a framework that pleases everyone has never been the goal. The important point has been to get a site up and running that *visitors* are pleased with. That Plone's or CPS' workflow model do not fit your frame of mind is of very little interest. we had a student who came one afternoon and created the "getting around g?teborg" pages (http://www.europython.org/sections/location/getting_around_the_g/bp_to_ep) and it took 5 minutes before he could start using the software. Which is why I still don't understand what you are bitching about concerning the site .. If you can't learn different ways of working with software than the ones you are used with, then I would say that it is a problem of yours in the first place. /JM From cs at comlounge.net Thu Jan 26 22:01:15 2006 From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 22:01:15 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <43D9389B.60108@comlounge.net> Hi! Just a note from sort of an outsider.. I don't know what actually went wrong with the systems used before (though I would be interested in what sort of things these systems could not provide. But this only via PM to not bloat this thread). But IMHO things should calm down here again. I think most of the systems can be tailored in a way that a) the editors can work with them and b) the visitors can use. The latter should be even more subject to some designer/visual communicator than to a programmer. The programmer should just make it fit. Speaking of the first thing in an ideal situation there should be some analysis before in what they need and so on. As it seems that Benedikt (and who else?) proposed their system as they are used to it I don't see any problem in why not just using it. Information about the conference in general never seemed that much and can in the worst case simply be done in simple HTML. But again here should these people decide who actually do the editing. As stated above I think that the appearance to the visitor should be tweakable with nearly every system. And somehow combining different system should also be no problem (e.g. using some Apache rewrite rules, iframes or whatever). So it might be of interest a) who will actually be providing the information b) what system do they prefer to use and (if no system is preferred) c) what are the requirements maybe also d) what system parts must be there? (information, registering, talk database etc.) Don't know if that mail helps but I was just wondering that choosing the system for the website is the main problem ;-) -- christian -- Christian Scholz/COM.lounge cs at comlounge.net http://mrtopf.tv http://comlounge.net http://dev.comlounge.net From lac at strakt.com Thu Jan 26 23:01:39 2006 From: lac at strakt.com (Laura Creighton) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:01:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: Message from Jean-Marc Orliaguet of "Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:30:37 +0100." <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> In a message of Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:30:37 +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet writes: >Laura Creighton wrote: > >> ..... >> >> >>But given our diverse community, it is not surprising that we cannot >>find a fit which suits everybody. Consider CherryPy, to pick >>something that we aren't using, and as far as I know are not >>considering using, so should not unduly stress people out. I have >>heard both of these comments about CherryPy's likeness to PHP. It is >>'a major strength that allows people to work in ways they prefer and >>enjoy', or 'an abomination, like the PHP it resembles, that makes it >>working with it an intolerable experience'. There is no hope in >>getting these two reviewers to meet in some happy middle. You might, >>if you worked hard at it, create a work experience that both of them >>dislike, but pleasing them both is impossible. >> >>There is a reason why we have so many webframeworks, and that does >>not reflect badly on us. People really, really, really do care about >>how they work, and really prefer to do things in ways that other people >>hate. Indeed, the same feature _often_ works that way. >> >> > > >But finding a framework that pleases everyone has never been the goal. >The important point has been to get a site up and running that >*visitors* are pleased with. That Plone's or CPS' workflow model do not >fit your frame of mind is of very little interest. You see, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. In my frame of reference, the tools that matter most are the tools that are used by the conference organisers to organise the conference. Then come the tools that help people produce content. Then come usability issues for the webvisitors, including, but not restricted to the tools that make the website searchable. If all of these work well, the visitors will get an experience which they enjoy, without being aware of where the work has gone into making the experience enjoyable. On the other hand, if the way of working is too hard, or too unpleasant, then the people who were signed up to do it will go away or do less or be busy with other problems in the workflow to get involved with more complicated things. The visitors will be unhappy, but in a way that 'putting the website first' will not address. >we had a student who came one afternoon and created the "getting around >g?teborg" pages >(http://www.europython.org/sections/location/getting_around_the_g/bp_to_e >p) >and it took 5 minutes before he could start using the software. yes. This is one of my great failures. There were supposed to be six of them. But 1 dropped out for unknown reasons, and the other 4 all cited 'I don't want to use this software' as a reason why they just mailed me what they could, and left things in my lap. This happened a lot. People who were supposed to find things 'easier to use than pure Zope' found them 'restrictive enough that I would prefer not to'. Europython potential volunteers apparantly contain a set of people who like to take things exactly as they are handed to them, and those who find that computing is all about 'the customising of life to suit'. >Which is why I still don't understand what you are bitching about >concerning the site .. If you can't learn different ways of working with >software than the ones you are used with, then I would say that it is a >problem of yours in the first place. > >/JM yes, I understand this. But the problem isn't that I 'cannot learn different ways' as might be witnessed by all the work I have done no matter what system. My problem is not that I cannot do it, but that I cannot get the functionality I want out of it to make the experience pleasant. Or efficient. I am also a LISP programmer bigot. I completely reject the notion of separating 'code' from 'data'. I am also an emacs rather than vi person. I hate the notion of modes altogether, which I believe is related to my notion that the separation of code from data is evil, but am not certain. That I expect more from a system than what I get, and I expect different from a system from what I get, does not imply 'oh she could get it if only she knew it better' but instead that the whole goals of the system are different than the ones I have in my mind when I wanted one. My experience in using Plone exactly matches the person who was unhappy she they bought an automobile when she really wanted a motorboat believing what she was told that 'after all they are both transportation'. It doesn't mean that Plone makes a bad automobile. It does mean that the conversion of an automobile into 'something that floats' will not be easy. What I want to ensure is that the next organising body, should it want a thing that floats, gets one that does so. Or whatever the heck it is that it wants. What I want to destroy is the idea that 'pretty much any system will be ok, because they do not matter a lot'. Laura From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Thu Jan 26 23:22:09 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:22:09 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20060126222209.GA15416@crater.logilab.fr> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 09:30:37PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: > Which is why I still don't understand what you are bitching about > concerning the site .. If you can't learn different ways of working with > software than the ones you are used with, then I would say that it is a > problem of yours in the first place. I am sure that you realize calling other people names is not helping. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Thu Jan 26 23:11:33 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2006 23:11:33 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> Message-ID: <43D94915.20308@ita.chalmers.se> Laura Creighton wrote: >In a message of Thu, 26 Jan 2006 21:30:37 +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet writes: > > >> >>But finding a framework that pleases everyone has never been the goal. >>The important point has been to get a site up and running that >>*visitors* are pleased with. That Plone's or CPS' workflow model do not >>fit your frame of mind is of very little interest. >> >> > >You see, this is a fundamental point of disagreement. In my frame of >reference, the tools that matter most are the tools that are used by >the conference organisers to organise the conference. Then come the >tools that help people produce content. Then come usability issues >for the webvisitors, including, but not restricted to the tools that >make the website searchable. If all of these work well, the visitors >will get an experience which they enjoy, without being aware of where >the work has gone into making the experience enjoyable. > >On the other hand, if the way of working is too hard, or too unpleasant, >then the people who were signed up to do it will go away or do less or >be busy with other problems in the workflow to get involved with more >complicated things. The visitors will be unhappy, but in a way that >'putting the website first' will not address. > > > This does not seem very professional from those who are saying that they want to contribute in the first place. If you sign up to do a job, you can't just blame it on the software as an excuse for not doing what you said you would be willing to do. Providing software is not the same thing as getting commitment from contributors. >>we had a student who came one afternoon and created the "getting around >>g?teborg" pages >>(http://www.europython.org/sections/location/getting_around_the_g/bp_to_e >>p) >>and it took 5 minutes before he could start using the software. >> >> > >yes. This is one of my great failures. There were supposed to be >six of them. But 1 dropped out for unknown reasons, and the >other 4 all cited 'I don't want to use this software' as a >reason why they just mailed me what they could, and left things in >my lap. > > > This is the problem with volunteering, and open-source projects in general: you are free to quit when things are no longer fun. You should be made it clear that the job was not about evaluating software but about using it. >This happened a lot. People who were supposed to find things >'easier to use than pure Zope' found them 'restrictive enough >that I would prefer not to'. Europython potential volunteers >apparantly contain a set of people who like to take things >exactly as they are handed to them, and those who find that >computing is all about 'the customising of life to suit'. > > > The solution is about setting rules. If some people consider that organizing a conference is mainly about trying different frameworks maybe they should consider doing something else as a hobby? >>Which is why I still don't understand what you are bitching about >>concerning the site .. If you can't learn different ways of working with >>software than the ones you are used with, then I would say that it is a >>problem of yours in the first place. >> >>/JM >> >> > >yes, I understand this. But the problem isn't that I 'cannot learn >different ways' as might be witnessed by all the work I have done no >matter what system. My problem is not that I cannot do it, but that >I cannot get the functionality I want out of it to make the >experience pleasant. Or efficient. > >I am also a LISP programmer bigot. I completely reject the >notion of separating 'code' from 'data'. I am also an emacs rather >than vi person. I hate the notion of modes altogether, which I >believe is related to my notion that the separation of code from >data is evil, but am not certain. > >That I expect more from a system than what I get, >and I expect different from a system from what I get, does not >imply 'oh she could get it if only she knew it better' but >instead that the whole goals of the system are different than >the ones I have in my mind when I wanted one. > >My experience in using Plone exactly matches the person who was >unhappy she they bought an automobile when she really wanted a >motorboat believing what she was told that 'after all they are both >transportation'. It doesn't mean that Plone makes a bad automobile. >It does mean that the conversion of an automobile into 'something that >floats' will not be easy. > >What I want to ensure is that the next organising body, should it >want a thing that floats, gets one that does so. Or whatever the >heck it is that it wants. What I want to destroy is the idea that >'pretty much any system will be ok, because they do not matter >a lot'. > >Laura > > I agree, but if you are supposed to use a piece of paper and a pen to write an essay, are you going to complain about how bad the tools were for writing and how much better a typewriter would have been as an excuse for not having written the essay? /JM From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Fri Jan 27 00:02:22 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 00:02:22 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D94915.20308@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> <43D94915.20308@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 11:11:33PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: > I agree, but if you are supposed to use a piece of paper and a pen to > write an essay, are you going to complain about how bad the tools were > for writing and how much better a typewriter would have been as an > excuse for not having written the essay? In this case she got her company to provide the software she needed to do the job. I do not call that an "excuse for not writing the essay". Whoever does the work choses the tools. If CPS gets dropped then so be it. Plone was dropped before it (and *I*', among others, had spent time with it) and pure Zope was dropped before that (and *I*, among others, had spent time as well). EuroPython happened whatever tool got used. I am sure it will happen again this year even if the organizers decide to work with Dreamweaver[*]. Oh, and actually what Jacob was proposing (rest documents stored in svn and turned to html) was far from stupid, but since he is not the one scheduled to do the work he does not get to chose either :) Could this stop now? Could we let Benedikt and whoever is commited to take care of the site go ahead with what they want to use? -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances *: I was told some people actually make web sites with it. From asouzaleite at gmx.de Fri Jan 27 08:13:52 2006 From: asouzaleite at gmx.de (Aroldo Souza-Leite) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 08:13:52 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> <43D94915.20308@ita.chalmers.se> <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> Message-ID: <43D9C830.3000508@gmx.de> Hi list, every now and then in his or her life every serious-minded carpenter has to face a quarrel in the inner family about their own living-room furniture. Of course the ones who need (or perhaps need not) a conference org tool for the next round have absolute priority and should urgently state what they want - the rest of us abide. But I learned a lot from this discussion. As a result I think the Python community is beautiful even in moments of pain. The only form of suffering that sanctifies is honesty. Cheers, Aroldo. From jmo at ita.chalmers.se Fri Jan 27 09:36:46 2006 From: jmo at ita.chalmers.se (Jean-Marc Orliaguet) Date: Fri, 27 Jan 2006 09:36:46 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <200601251738.57132.jacob@strakt.com> <43D7C37E.9040003@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261517.21868.jacob@strakt.com> <43D8E333.3060000@ita.chalmers.se> <200601261929.k0QJTfEm004936@theraft.strakt.com> <43D9316D.1090402@ita.chalmers.se> <200601262201.k0QM1d7p011360@theraft.strakt.com> <43D94915.20308@ita.chalmers.se> <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> Message-ID: <43D9DB9E.8000202@ita.chalmers.se> Nicolas Chauvat wrote: >On Thu, Jan 26, 2006 at 11:11:33PM +0100, Jean-Marc Orliaguet wrote: > > >>I agree, but if you are supposed to use a piece of paper and a pen to >>write an essay, are you going to complain about how bad the tools were >>for writing and how much better a typewriter would have been as an >>excuse for not having written the essay? >> >> > >In this case she got her company to provide the software she needed to >do the job. I do not call that an "excuse for not writing the essay". > >Whoever does the work choses the tools. If CPS gets dropped then so be >it. Plone was dropped before it (and *I*', among others, had spent >time with it) and pure Zope was dropped before that (and *I*, among >others, had spent time as well). EuroPython happened whatever tool >got used. I am sure it will happen again this year even if the >organizers decide to work with Dreamweaver[*]. > >Oh, and actually what Jacob was proposing (rest documents stored in >svn and turned to html) was far from stupid, but since he is not the >one scheduled to do the work he does not get to chose either :) > >Could this stop now? Could we let Benedikt and whoever is commited to >take care of the site go ahead with what they want to use? > > > FYI, you missed the point. My comments were not about the tools; it was about commitment from participants. I have no suggestion whatsoever concerning the tools that are going to be used this year: Participants propose the solutions they like, and once a solution has been selected by a common agreement (as it was done on IRC during a meething in december las year), the contributors should get in "contribution mode", not in the "I-don't-like-the-software" mode or in the "I'm-going-to-evalute-the-workflow" mode. Organizing a conference is not about evaluating or selling software. /JM From jacob at strakt.com Sat Jan 28 18:59:06 2006 From: jacob at strakt.com (Jacob =?iso-8859-1?q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 18:59:06 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Python conference software In-Reply-To: <43D9DB9E.8000202@ita.chalmers.se> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <20060126230222.GF15416@crater.logilab.fr> <43D9DB9E.8000202@ita.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <200601281859.08263.jacob@strakt.com> fredagen den 27 januari 2006 09.36 skrev Jean-Marc Orliaguet: > FYI, you missed the point. > My comments were not about the tools; it was about commitment from > participants. > > I have no suggestion whatsoever concerning the tools that are going to > be used this year: > > Participants propose the solutions they like, and once a solution has > been selected by a common agreement (as it was done on IRC during a > meething in december las year), the contributors should get in > "contribution mode", not in the "I-don't-like-the-software" mode or in > the "I'm-going-to-evalute-the-workflow" mode. > > Organizing a conference is not about evaluating or selling software. My comments were about my experiences from last year. They are of course subjective, but I think it was important for the organisers of this years conference to know what worked well, what problems I encountered and what sort of things they are expected to produce. Having these things show up as nasty surprises late in the process is not a good thing. For instance, we had to manually make invoices for all people who wanted one at Europython 2004. This turned out to be about 200 people and each invoice took about 5 minutes, adding up to about 16 hours of staff time at the conference. Benedikt and the other organisers have to make a decision on what software to use. I think they should do so with as much information about the problem to solve as well as the alternatives they have in order to be able to make the best decision. From a personal standpoint, my offer to put more work into the CAPS system in order to improve on what we had last year still stands, should the organisers decide that they want to use this solution. If they go down a different route, I will be happy to respond to questions, but I will not not put efforts into building another system to suit Europython. Jacob Hall?n From mal at egenix.com Sat Jan 28 23:21:04 2006 From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:21:04 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <43DBEE50.8080108@egenix.com> holger krekel wrote: > * Renaming EuroPython to Pycon idea > Holger mentions the idea of renaming EuroPython to Pycon. > The idea is generally welcomed but a number of people think > that we should not tackle this for 2006. Everybody agrees > that heading for some more discussions with organisers > from non-europe Python conferences e.g. at Pycon 2006 > makes sense. The guiding idea is to have a worldwide > naming/context umbrella for Python conferences. I like the idea. Note that http://www.pycon.org/ already hints to such setup and indeed, you'll find the US event under http://us.pycon.org/ since that was the idea behind the pycon.org domain. Pointing eu.pycon.org to a PyCon Europe site would be easy as well. Dito for e.g. PyCon Asia, PyCon Brazil, etc. If you do intend to go down this route, you should probably contact the PSF since it will probably have to give you the OK to use the name (which I'm sure won't be a problem at all). -- Marc-Andre Lemburg eGenix.com Professional Python Services directly from the Source (#1, Jan 28 2006) >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ... http://www.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ... http://zope.egenix.com/ >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ... http://python.egenix.com/ ________________________________________________________________________ ::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,FreeBSD for free ! :::: From hpk at trillke.net Tue Jan 31 09:12:37 2006 From: hpk at trillke.net (holger krekel) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:12:37 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <20060131081237.GW13417@solar.trillke.net> On Mon, Jan 23, 2006 at 18:44 +0100, Paul Everitt wrote: > On Jan 23, 2006, at 6:19 PM, holger krekel wrote: > > > * Discussion about "Zope" track > > > > Paul suggests to go for a "Web Frameworks Track" instead > > of limiting it to Zope. He thinks that this should > > help to get more cross-pollination going within the > > python web framework communities. There would likely > > be a quota on Zope talks then. The ideas were welcomed > > by the attendees and will likely be followed up > > on the mailing list and on the upcoming track chair > > meeting. > > To add some more background on this point, Zope would like to be less > of an island in the Python community. I think Zope has much to > offer, especially in Zope 3, where interesting parts can be used in > isolation. I also think Zope has lots to gain from Python and other > Python web frameworks. There's tons of exciting stuff going on in > the Python web frameworks space. > > Finally, I think Python itself is facing strong competition in Python > web frameworks. We (the Python web frameworks) should recognize this > and work together more to tell a better story. As you know this sounds good to me. Let me add that i think that it would be nice to reach outside the Python Web Frameworks development worlds - not so much thinking about Ruby on Rails but about Seaside (http://seaside.st) and possibly other approaches that leverage language features not existing in Python. Inviting people from those communities (or having a "PyPy possibilities workshop" within the web track for that matter) may help to divert some "island" or competition thinking within Python webframework land :) cheers, holger From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 31 10:59:43 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:59:43 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time Message-ID: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> As previously threatened, I'd like to hold a meeting of people wanting to chair a track at this year's EuroPython tonight. Ideally after this meeting we'll know what tracks we are going to have and who's going to chair them and be in a fit state to write a call for papers. Cheers, mwh -- Famous remarks are very seldom quoted correctly. -- Simeon Strunsky From alexandre.fayolle at logilab.fr Tue Jan 31 11:20:57 2006 From: alexandre.fayolle at logilab.fr (Alexandre Fayolle) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:20:57 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <20060131102057.GF22539@crater.logilab.fr> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 09:59:43AM +0000, Michael Hudson wrote: > As previously threatened, I'd like to hold a meeting of people wanting > to chair a track at this year's EuroPython tonight. Ideally after > this meeting we'll know what tracks we are going to have and who's > going to chair them and be in a fit state to write a call for papers. Hi, Nicolas Chauvat intends to chair the 'Python in the Scientific Computing domain' as he did for the previous editions of EPC. Unfortunately, he won't be able to attend today's meeting, because he is busy on Logilab's booth at Solution Linux 2006 in Paris which has started today. -- Alexandre Fayolle LOGILAB, Paris (France). http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 481 bytes Desc: Digital signature Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/attachments/20060131/28eb40e0/attachment.pgp From asouzaleite at gmx.de Tue Jan 31 11:33:17 2006 From: asouzaleite at gmx.de (Aroldo Souza-Leite) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 11:33:17 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <43DF3CED.1010407@gmx.de> Hi Michael, again I don't know if I'll be at the meeting tonight, but I'm still applying for the Education Track, including, of course, the necessary jobs in the conference foreground ( looking for people, papers, etc). Regards, Aroldo. Michael Hudson schrieb: >As previously threatened, I'd like to hold a meeting of people wanting >to chair a track at this year's EuroPython tonight. Ideally after >this meeting we'll know what tracks we are going to have and who's >going to chair them and be in a fit state to write a call for papers. > >Cheers, >mwh > > > From mwh at python.net Tue Jan 31 18:09:45 2006 From: mwh at python.net (Michael Hudson) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:09:45 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> (Michael Hudson's message of "Tue, 31 Jan 2006 09:59:43 +0000") References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> Michael Hudson writes: > As previously threatened, I'd like to hold a meeting of people wanting > to chair a track at this year's EuroPython tonight. Ideally after > this meeting we'll know what tracks we are going to have and who's > going to chair them and be in a fit state to write a call for papers. OK, the upshot of this was indeed a list of tracks and chairs, something like this: holger/bea d - agile aiste/bea f - social skills nicolas - science paul/godefroid - zope/web samuele - python language and libraries john pinner/harald? - business again aroldo/lac - education/neophytes lac - misfits armin/carl - refereed papers If your one of these people I'd like you to add a description of your track to http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2006/TrackDescriptions within the next week (or email me or the list if the wiki doesn't like you for some reason). In addition, there are a few questions: (1) What are the sizes and numbers of the rooms we've reserved? I know I've seen this somewhere, I just forget where that was. (2) How seriously do we want to run tutorials? Charging extra, doing them on a separate day and splitting the costs with the giver of the tutorial or just a couple of long-ish talks on the first morning? If we want to take them seriously, we could do with finding some energetic person to take care of them. (3) I read in an old-ish maik that "CERN are interested in a strong science track and a strong neophytes track." Is there someone at CERN who can help with making sure this happens? I guess this means to some extent coordination with Nicolas and a marketing effort to find scientists who can give interesting talks and finding out what they want to learn about :) The current plan calls for the CFP to go out on the 15th of February, a little more than two weeks time. Is this still on course? I think so, modulo website stuff... Cheers, mwh -- It's an especially annoying American buzzword for "business use, as opposed to consumer, research, or educational use". -- Tim Peters defines "enterprise" From benedikt.hegner at cern.ch Tue Jan 31 18:27:31 2006 From: benedikt.hegner at cern.ch (Benedikt Hegner) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 18:27:31 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <364E261B-CEBC-4721-9C78-4AEC2F380FF1@cern.ch> Hi all, > (1) What are the sizes and numbers of the rooms we've reserved? I > know I've seen this somewhere, I just forget where that was. we have four rooms and open space for posters. The main auditorium is 340. The others are about 100 plus space for two more rows. > (2) How seriously do we want to run tutorials? Charging extra, doing > them on a separate day and splitting the costs with the giver of > the tutorial or just a couple of long-ish talks on the first > morning? If we want to take them seriously, we could do with > finding some energetic person to take care of them. > > (3) I read in an old-ish maik that "CERN are interested in a strong > science track and a strong neophytes track." Is there someone at > CERN who can help with making sure this happens? I guess this > means to some extent coordination with Nicolas and a marketing > effort to find scientists who can give interesting talks and > finding out what they want to learn about :) One of us here in Geneva will help Nicolas with the Science Track. And I have already some possible speakers in mind. Cheers Benedikt From paul at zope-europe.org Tue Jan 31 19:25:28 2006 From: paul at zope-europe.org (Paul Everitt) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 19:25:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> Message-ID: <96925124-B059-4DCB-B99B-D5159A9A713B@zope-europe.org> On Jan 31, 2006, at 6:09 PM, Michael Hudson wrote: > (2) How seriously do we want to run tutorials? Charging extra, doing > them on a separate day and splitting the costs with the giver of > the tutorial or just a couple of long-ish talks on the first > morning? If we want to take them seriously, we could do with > finding some energetic person to take care of them. I totally agree. The gap between "I think that's a must-do idea!" and "I volunteer to make it happen" is rather large. :^) IMO, 50% of the tutorial givers approach is as a much-longer presentation. It takes some good oversight to make sure the audience gets its money worth. --Paul From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Jan 31 20:46:05 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:46:05 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] #europython minutes 23rd January 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060131081237.GW13417@solar.trillke.net> References: <20060123171948.GB13417@solar.trillke.net> <20060131081237.GW13417@solar.trillke.net> Message-ID: <20060131194605.GC1644@crater.logilab.fr> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 09:12:37AM +0100, holger krekel wrote: > but about Seaside (http://seaside.st) and possibly other approaches > that leverage language features not existing in Python. Sounds interesting. Do you have time to share pointers ? -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances From nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr Tue Jan 31 20:50:26 2006 From: nicolas.chauvat at logilab.fr (Nicolas Chauvat) Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2006 20:50:26 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] track chair meeting today #europython 1700 central european time In-Reply-To: <364E261B-CEBC-4721-9C78-4AEC2F380FF1@cern.ch> References: <2mk6cghg4w.fsf@starship.python.net> <2macdcgw86.fsf@starship.python.net> <364E261B-CEBC-4721-9C78-4AEC2F380FF1@cern.ch> Message-ID: <20060131195026.GD1644@crater.logilab.fr> On Tue, Jan 31, 2006 at 06:27:31PM +0100, Benedikt Hegner wrote: > One of us here in Geneva will help Nicolas with the Science Track. > And I have already some possible speakers in mind. Nice. It is always better not to be the only one looking for speakers. -- Nicolas Chauvat logilab.fr - services en informatique avanc?e et gestion de connaissances