From adamfromhungary at gmail.com  Wed Nov  7 23:14:22 2007
From: adamfromhungary at gmail.com (Adam)
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 23:14:22 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] python - stealth window
Message-ID: <33e619fa0711071414j77144c0cjcd645e6bf0a64449@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I want create Windows console window in stealth with Python script. I tried
search on internet but I do not find anything. I want something like this
just it is in C++:

    HWND stealth; /*creating stealth (window is not visible)*/
    AllocConsole();
    stealth=FindWindowA("ConsoleWindowClass",NULL);
    ShowWindow(stealth,0);


So I start my script and that is will be run in the background and I can
trick with "hotkeys" in WINAMP. I do not worry for a new one window. :-) I
hope you understand me because my english is not perfect.

Regards,

Adam
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From lac at openend.se  Thu Nov  8 00:52:06 2007
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2007 00:52:06 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] python - stealth window
In-Reply-To: Message from Adam <adamfromhungary@gmail.com> of "Wed,
	07 Nov 2007 23:14:22 +0100."
	<33e619fa0711071414j77144c0cjcd645e6bf0a64449@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <33e619fa0711071414j77144c0cjcd645e6bf0a64449@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <200711072352.lA7Nq6X9018839@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Wed, 07 Nov 2007 23:14:22 +0100, Adam writes:
>Hello,
>
>I want create Windows console window in stealth with Python script. I tri
>ed
>search on internet but I do not find anything. I want something like this
>just it is in C++:
>
>    HWND stealth; /*creating stealth (window is not visible)*/
>    AllocConsole();
>    stealth=FindWindowA("ConsoleWindowClass",NULL);
>    ShowWindow(stealth,0);
>
>
>So I start my script and that is will be run in the background and I can
>trick with "hotkeys" in WINAMP. I do not worry for a new one window. :-) 
>I
>hope you understand me because my english is not perfect.
>
>Regards,
>
>Adam

Your English is fine, but this is not the place to discuss questions
like that.  This mailing list is for discussing how to run the
annual Europython conference.  Send your mail to python-list at python.org
instead.

good luck,
Laura Creighton

From eiwot23 at gmail.com  Wed Nov 14 11:06:27 2007
From: eiwot23 at gmail.com (SciTechScholarships Blog)
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 17:06:27 +0700
Subject: [EuroPython] Interesting Erasmus-Mundus scholarships
Message-ID: <2d8f06a0711140206w14f83cdex9edc1593e8d435c2@mail.gmail.com>

Check out this interesting scholarships :)
http://scitechscholarships.blogspot.com/2007/11/erasmus-mundus-student-scholarships-for.html
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From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 21:57:04 2007
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 12:57:04 -0800
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
Message-ID: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>

Yo EuroFolk! (Volk or whatever)...  Just thought I'd drop in from a
frosty Pacific coastal rain forest, heavy into chip fab, to ask about
the state of the web framework as of today.

We know we don't want to go with CERN's again right? as it depended
too much on specific inhouse assumptions.

Event planners need to just throw a lot of ad hoc SQL at a back end
and get meaningful results -- very open architecture in other words.

I'm in the process of using Pycon's front end for Chicago in March of
2008 and am so far finding the workflow fairly smooth, even as they
wire out a few kinks.

There's a process whereby paper and tutorial submissions happen
through the framework, as does the reviewer process (I don't know of
any outcomes yet).

One of the reviewers (# 5) of my 30-45 minute talk proposal posted a
note readable by me, saying to delete my given name from the prose
writeup, as we're in an anonymous phase of the process.  I did so
immediately.

Anyway, the economist in me says why not investigate cloning the
source from Pycon, forking if necessary, but perhaps blowing an even
bigger balloon to hand on to some next conference?

Or perhaps Django doesn't have enough friends in Europe, I really
don't know.  There's something to be said for choosing from competing
prototypes.

How far down the decision tree have you gotten I wonder?  Still up in
the relational versus object oriented clouds, as in MySQL vs ZODB?

In that case, I'd suggest descending the executive tree a few notches,
in the interests of getting going.

On the other hand, maybe you've already finished the job and I'm just
too out of the loop to know about it.

Kirby Urner
Portland, Oregon
Europythons:  G?teberg 05, Vilnius 07

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Mon Nov 26 22:48:17 2007
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 13:48:17 -0800
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c0711261348u5181375cm658c5ca2486b1e1a@mail.gmail.com>

Plus on another front I wanted to add how encouraging it would seem,
to me at least, to have a way to toggle into Cyrillic versions of the
Europython site, for two reasons:

(1) having Europython as far eastward as Vilnius is a deliberate
invitation to would-be attenders even further east, or in the same
general area

and

(2) a big theme of our Python community these days is the
transition from 2.x to 3.x and what that means in terms of unicode
becoming the native format, whereby source code might start
to diffuse more successfully outside of Latin-1 and ASCII.

Having the Europython website show off these breakthroughs in
internationalization would be ipso facto a positive advertisement
for Python and its world class sophistication etc.

AsiaPython and/or AfricaPython will give Python 3.x even deeper
workouts, but that's for other lists to work out.

I realize that Europythons have compromised on English a lot,
given Esperanto never took.

However, I think Europython is a lot like Starbucks:  it's a trusted
brand whereby newbies become inducted and persuaded that this
*is* a great way to build one's career (same with Pycon in North
America).

This message feeds back to the local user groups, where the most
local and regional dialects are hard currency.

The message is: you can take Python into these local classrooms,
without forcing a lot of mandatory English instruction as a consequence.

It still helps to be able to read in multiple human languages, no question,
but decoupling reading source code from reading only in Latin-1 will make
many learning curves less steep, helping with recruitment and retainment.

Plus this new chapter of unicode source code (not just Python is trail-
blazing here) mitigates any fears of any single geek monoculture taking
shape (i.e. we're not The Borg, much as we might look like it some days).

Kirby

On Nov 26, 2007 12:57 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yo EuroFolk! (Volk or whatever)...  Just thought I'd drop in from a
> frosty Pacific coastal rain forest, heavy into chip fab, to ask about
> the state of the web framework as of today.
>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Nov 27 01:14:23 2007
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 01:14:23 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Monday 26 November 2007 21:57:04 kirby urner wrote:
> Yo EuroFolk! (Volk or whatever)...  Just thought I'd drop in from a
> frosty Pacific coastal rain forest, heavy into chip fab, to ask about
> the state of the web framework as of today.

We're currently discussing stuff on the europython-improve list which was set 
up after the conference but which has been quiet for quite some time:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve

You're welcome to join! My suggestion is to go with a Wiki for the main Web 
site, and to let those with stronger opinions figure out how they want to do 
registration and the talk management. ;-)

It's interesting to hear of your experiences with the PyCon systems, though.

[...]

> Kirby Urner
> Portland, Oregon
> Europythons:  G?teberg 05, Vilnius 07

Perhaps we should have badges or medals for display to other conference 
participants, showing which of the previous conferences we've been to. :-)

Paul


From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Tue Nov 27 23:44:54 2007
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:44:54 -0800
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: <200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <f604188c0711271444i368e58d4u596dd7a6eb7e76b9@mail.gmail.com>

On Nov 26, 2007 4:14 PM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:

<< SNIP >>

> Perhaps we should have badges or medals for display to other conference
> participants, showing which of the previous conferences we've been to. :-)
>
> Paul

Yeah, or walking sticks, like you get in Baveria (lots of little decals).

Kirby

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Wed Nov 28 00:01:09 2007
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:01:09 -0800
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0711271444i368e58d4u596dd7a6eb7e76b9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<f604188c0711271444i368e58d4u596dd7a6eb7e76b9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c0711271501tc977214y7debcfe43fda66c3@mail.gmail.com>

Oops, Bavaria, sorry (still have my stick) -- anyway, T-shirts work.

I've said all I need to say re web framework and internationalization
goals, appreciate the invite to -improve though.

Given my very distant location, I think I'd best leave it to the pros
closer to the action.  Urner out.


On Nov 27, 2007 2:44 PM, kirby urner <kirby.urner at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2007 4:14 PM, Paul Boddie <paul at boddie.org.uk> wrote:
>
> << SNIP >>
>
> > Perhaps we should have badges or medals for display to other conference
> > participants, showing which of the previous conferences we've been to. :-)
> >
> > Paul
>
> Yeah, or walking sticks, like you get in Baveria (lots of little decals).
>
> Kirby
>

From cs at comlounge.net  Wed Nov 28 00:31:50 2007
From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:31:50 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: <200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <474CA8E6.10306@comlounge.net>

Hi!

So here is my $0.02 for that front page :-)

(not sure this was the right thread)

First of all the question is for whom that web site is and I think we 
have some audiences here:

- people new to EuroPython, maybe even Python, might want to know what it is
- regular visitors of EP, they know what it is but want to get details 
about the next one and esp. want to register for it.
- people registered for the conference. They want more detailed 
information such as accomodation, how to actually get there and of 
course the program.

Most of that stuff does not really cry for a wiki IMHO but more for a 
design agency trying to address at least the 2 first groups (for those 
the site needs to be directly approachable, they need to figure out how 
to get that information or how to register quickly. Thus a clear 
call-to-action. The last group already paid money and thus they migth be 
more willing to look for the information they need which does not mean 
that it should be awkwardly hidden somewhere but that the two first 
groups should have priority in placing the links and/or buttons 
(actually I like big Register-here buttons)

As for the content I see two fields here:

- general information such as accomodation and travelling as well
   as pricing information etc. Maybe also some news section ("We got XXX 
to hold a keynote")

- more dynamic information such as talks and especially sprints, 
lightning talks etc.

for the latter I would see a wiki (talks probably coming from some sort 
of database), for the first part more some sort of CMS (as you might 
know I would say Plone but the people putting in that general 
information should maybe choose. I heard there have been problems with 
Plone in the past, so it's maybe not the right choice but I would like 
to know more about these problems as we should solve user problems ;-) )
But regardless what system I think that esp. the homepage should not be 
changeable by anybody. Actually I think it should contain more graphics 
and should contain the most important parts prominently(what is it and 
how to register). The rest can then be on sub pages.

Another nice thing would be some sort of archive of the last EuroPython 
maybe with photos, videos, links to blog post (we need to blog more 
anyway) and so on. I think somebody showed something at the last EP on 
how it could look but basically it's importing some RSS feeds (and maybe 
converting these to content on the site so this information does not go 
away should the RSS feed die). But this point is just some icing if 
somebody feels enlighted to do it.

As for the wiki and spam, what about limiting editing functionality to 
those registered? I mean all this stuff does not necessarily need to be 
edited by anybody. Of course some system to only store this list of 
people in one place without manual copying would be the best option here.

Oh, and I think we should do something about the design as it looks a 
bit aged IMHO. I would even like a new logo but not sure how hard it 
would be to do one or to decide on one (same with design in general).

And looking at e.g. http://en.oreilly.com/rails2008/public/content/home
some call for talks would probably also be important to have now (or in 
general a Call for participation in a prominent spot).

(as for sponsoring some design I might think of doing that if there is 
some consensus on what to do)

Ok, that much for my $0.02 :-)

-- Christian



Paul Boddie schrieb:
> On Monday 26 November 2007 21:57:04 kirby urner wrote:
> 
>>Yo EuroFolk! (Volk or whatever)...  Just thought I'd drop in from a
>>frosty Pacific coastal rain forest, heavy into chip fab, to ask about
>>the state of the web framework as of today.
> 
> 
> We're currently discussing stuff on the europython-improve list which was set 
> up after the conference but which has been quiet for quite some time:
> 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve
> 
> You're welcome to join! My suggestion is to go with a Wiki for the main Web 
> site, and to let those with stronger opinions figure out how they want to do 
> registration and the talk management. ;-)
> 
> It's interesting to hear of your experiences with the PyCon systems, though.
> 
> [...]
> 
> 
>>Kirby Urner
>>Portland, Oregon
>>Europythons:  G?teberg 05, Vilnius 07
> 
> 
> Perhaps we should have badges or medals for display to other conference 
> participants, showing which of the previous conferences we've been to. :-)
> 
> Paul
> 
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


-- 
Christian Scholz                         video blog: http://comlounge.tv
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** neues Blog: http://mrtopf.de/blog
** neuer Podcast: http://mrtopf.de/podcast

From lac at openend.se  Wed Nov 28 08:56:27 2007
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:56:27 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Reality Check in Winter
In-Reply-To: Message from Christian Scholz <cs@comlounge.net> 
	of "Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:31:50 +0100." <474CA8E6.10306@comlounge.net> 
References: <f604188c0711261257sb23c6c9q9bd4cbb7dd261422@mail.gmail.com>
	<200711270114.24041.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<474CA8E6.10306@comlounge.net> 
Message-ID: <200711280756.lAS7uRRl003149@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:31:50 +0100, Christian Scholz writes:
>Hi!
>
>So here is my $0.02 for that front page :-)
>
>(not sure this was the right thread)
>
>First of all the question is for whom that web site is and I think we 
>have some audiences here:
>
>- people new to EuroPython, maybe even Python, might want to know what it
> is
>- regular visitors of EP, they know what it is but want to get details 
>about the next one and esp. want to register for it.
>- people registered for the conference. They want more detailed 
>information such as accomodation, how to actually get there and of 
>course the program.

This is, I think, the problem.  The people you think the site is
mostly for, is the people I think that the site ought least to be for.

I want the site to be foremost for the organisers of the conference,
to help organise the conference.  And if you're not an organiser,
then -- why not?  I'd like it if the site said 'you're supposed to
be doing something around here to help put on the conference' and
not 'here is the conference we are planning to give you'.  I'm
not sure how we get this effect, but the site we have now clearly
gives the other effect.

<snip points about making the registration process easier to find
 and use, which I agree with>

>Another nice thing would be some sort of archive of the last EuroPython 
>maybe with photos, videos, links to blog post (we need to blog more 
>anyway) and so on. I think somebody showed something at the last EP on 
>how it could look but basically it's importing some RSS feeds (and maybe 
>converting these to content on the site so this information does not go 
>away should the RSS feed die). But this point is just some icing if 
>somebody feels enlighted to do it.

I don't think that this is some icing -- I think this is what we
need to get more community involvement.  Privided that everybody
can post things that goes on the feed and its not more 'blah blah
from the conference orginisers to you the audience'

>As for the wiki and spam, what about limiting editing functionality to 
>those registered? I mean all this stuff does not necessarily need to be 
>edited by anybody. Of course some system to only store this list of 
>people in one place without manual copying would be the best option here.

I don't want to limit the editing to those who are registered.  I want
the site editable by people who are not registered for this year's
conference.  I want the community to be out discussing and helping
even if they cannot attend this year.  And in particular, I don't want
the site to be only used for one event and then more or less die for
another year.  Because I don't want the organising to more or less die
every year, the same way it has now.  Its not clear to me that even
requring a login in order to edit isn't too much.  I haven't given up
on OpenID yet -- I am curious as to what problems Doug found with it.

One thing I have thought of is a system where everybody has a set of
 virtual postits, so that people could stick them on appropriate 
places of the site with notes -- move this colum there, this thing
is not sized properly -- this thing does not work with safari --
etc, etc, all linked to the bug tracker.  It might help designing
such a thing even though we aren't all located in the same place.

On the other hand, something in me says that people who are interested
in such things should just come to G?teborg and stay at my house until
we work out the details of things.

I just don't know how to do design-by-distributed-people.  It seems
a hard problem to me.

>Oh, and I think we should do something about the design as it looks a 
>bit aged IMHO. I would even like a new logo but not sure how hard it 
>would be to do one or to decide on one (same with design in general).

It's not hard to find willing artists, and the artist we have been using
Vincent Maton, could probably be convinced to do an updated  version.
It's harder to know what you want in a new version.

>And looking at e.g. http://en.oreilly.com/rails2008/public/content/home
>some call for talks would probably also be important to have now (or in 
>general a Call for participation in a prominent spot).

yes.

>(as for sponsoring some design I might think of doing that if there is 
>some consensus on what to do)

Yes, that's one of the hard things.

>
>Ok, that much for my $0.02 :-)
>
>-- Christian