From lac at openend.se  Tue Mar 11 15:10:04 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython
Message-ID: <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se>

We're still very short of volunteers.  Try joining europython-improve at python.org
if you want to help out.


From lac at openend.se  Tue Mar 11 17:35:55 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 17:35:55 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython
In-Reply-To: Message from Laura Creighton <lac@openend.se> of "Tue,
	11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100."
	<200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> 
References: <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se> 
Message-ID: <200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:10:04 +0100, Laura Creighton writes:
>We're still very short of volunteers.  Try joining europython-improve at pyt
>hon.org
>if you want to help out.

And at that point my internet connection went away for the day.
So, while true, that wasn't all I wanted to say. :-)

One thing we have always done is outreach to some other area --
business or testing or agile methodologies or ...

So we need input, what would people be interested in seeing this year?

Also we wonder would people be interested in tutorials?  Would those
that would let us know what sort of tutorials they would be interested
in?  And how much they would be interested in paying for it?

No promises, but we'd like to know what interests you.

And, yes, we'd really like to see more volunteers to help organise this thing.

Laura

From haraldarminmassa at gmail.com  Wed Mar 12 11:47:43 2008
From: haraldarminmassa at gmail.com (Harald Armin Massa)
Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 11:47:43 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] ideas for Europython
In-Reply-To: <200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se>
References: <lac@openend.se> <200803111410.m2BEA4JN032282@theraft.openend.se>
	<200803111635.m2BGZtWh004466@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <7be3f35d0803120347i7caaf22cu563c904f9a6c34a3@mail.gmail.com>

>  >We're still very short of volunteers.  Try joining europython-improve at pyt
>  >hon.org
>  >if you want to help out.

to make it a one-click and enter some stuff option:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve

Harald



-- 
GHUM Harald Massa
persuadere et programmare
Harald Armin Massa
Spielberger Stra?e 49
70435 Stuttgart
0173/9409607
fx 01212-5-13695179
-
EuroPython 2008 will take place in Vilnius, Lithuania - Stay tuned!

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Thu Mar 13 22:36:44 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 22:36:44 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython 2008: Another Call for Theme and Talk
	Suggestions
Message-ID: <200803132236.45106.paul@boddie.org.uk>

It has been very quiet on the mailing list recently, but for those of you not 
aware of the work happening behind the scenes for EuroPython, we have been 
getting ready to accept talk proposals for this year's conference. As a 
result, we [*] are still interested in having as many ideas for conference 
themes and talks as possible - really, we just want to know what topics are 
most interesting to people who are thinking about coming to EuroPython 2008.

See here for the page of talk and theme suggestions so far:

http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions

And see here for some help on contributing to the EuroPython site:

http://www.europython.org/community/Participants

If you want to help review talks, once we start accepting proposals, don't be 
shy! Either send a mail to this list, or create an account on the EuroPython 
site and add yourself to the "Conference Programme" list:

http://www.europython.org/community/Volunteers

And if you can think of innovative ideas for a particular theme: perhaps some 
kind of tutorial session or just a gathering of people with a passionate 
interest in a particular theme, feel free to tell us all about it!

Make EuroPython yours: get involved now! :-)

[*] As EuroPython is a community conference, there isn't really an "us" 
(meaning the organisers) and a "them" (meaning everyone else). Everyone is 
welcome to help shape the conference into something meaningful to them. See 
the EuroPython site at europython.org for more information!

From lac at openend.se  Fri Mar 14 01:15:26 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 01:15:26 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython
Message-ID: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>

every year, a few weeks before Europython, somebody gets the idea
that we should record the talks.  At this point and time, the
organisers all say 'EEEEP! Great idea but too late now, too bad you
didn't say something earlier.'

For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something.

Laura

From marco.mariani at prometeia.it  Fri Mar 14 11:14:17 2008
From: marco.mariani at prometeia.it (Marco Mariani)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:14:17 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython
In-Reply-To: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <47DA4FF9.80103@prometeia.it>

Laura Creighton wrote:

> For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something.
>   

Unfortunately, I cannot volunteer, but I think a side-to-side recording 
like this

http://rubyconf2007.confreaks.com/d1t1p1_what_makes_code_beautiful.html

would make a *huge* difference.


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From regebro at gmail.com  Fri Mar 14 21:17:43 2008
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:17:43 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython
In-Reply-To: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Laura Creighton <lac at openend.se> wrote:
>  For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something.

I've been to 2? conference now (currently at PyCon) and and both the
two first ones, EuropPython 2007 and PloneConf 2007, some talks (all
att PloneConf) was recorded and supposed to be put up "later". That
"later" never happened.

I suspect that after the conference everybody is too tired to actually
do anything. I think that if somebody wants to do this stuff, they
should be dedicated to do that, and the setup should be such that
publishing it is a matter of pushing a button, more or less. Otherwise
it won't happen, and may be just a waste of energy.

-- 
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
+33 661 58 14 64

From cs at comlounge.net  Mon Mar 17 15:49:18 2008
From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:49:18 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython
In-Reply-To: <319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
	<319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net>

Hi!

Lennart Regebro wrote:
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 1:15 AM, Laura Creighton <lac at openend.se> wrote:
>>  For 2008, Now's the earlier when you should be saying something.
> 
> I've been to 2? conference now (currently at PyCon) and and both the
> two first ones, EuropPython 2007 and PloneConf 2007, some talks (all
> att PloneConf) was recorded and supposed to be put up "later". That
> "later" never happened.

Well, that's not completely true. First of all the recording at 
EuroPython 2007 was my own decision to do and thus completely 
voluntarily and there even appeared most of the talks I recorded at
http://comlounge.tv

With Plone Conference some talks also appeared on http://plone.tv and 
those which I recorded on http://ustream.tv

The problem is clear though: Doing video recordings with good post 
production (adding titles, maybe slides) is great to have but also a lot 
of work. If you record on tape you usually have to do:

- get the footage off the tape (this is realtime, 1 hr talk = 1 hr wait 
for capturing)
- edit the video (depending on what you have to add, simple process with 
intro/outro is maybe 10 mins, adding slides might be 1-2 hours per talk)
- render the video (depends on hardware and settings, might also take 1 
hr or even more)

In the case of capturing and rendering those computers used for it are 
usually taken by this so you cannot really do much in parallel unless 
you have lots of computers.

All of this is probably the reason why video productions rarely work 
good that way unless you throw a lot of money at it.

What I learned from previous conferences was that a somewhat different 
workflow might work better in which you do as much as you can on 
location, including publishing it. This can work as follows:

- put a camera with tripod in every room you want to capture
- attach it to a laptop/computer
- stream it live via http://ustream.tv or similar services.
- record it on the service
- copy the embed code over to some blog or wiki or website.

That's all. Downside: You need a good enough connection to stream to 
that service, quality is not 100% great but usually sufficient. The good 
side: Setup is very easy, no editing is needed and it's directly online. 
Of course the other good thing is that people can watch it live and 
eventually ask questions via the chat which could be relayed be the 
video person to the speaker.

An alternative would be not to stream it live but to directly capture it 
via e.g. Quicktime Pro (but I am not sure if this can encode directly).
You only would need to upload it then and you need enough HD space.

So what's usually needed for one of these setups is some people 
controlling it (it would be good to at least have 2 people per room so 
that 1 person is not bound to one room the whole time), one camera, one 
laptop, one tripod.

Additionally to have better recording quality other things would be good 
such as

- a wireless microphone or some connection to an existing microphone to 
get better sound (that's problem number one usually, getting not the 
typing around you but the speaker's voice on tape)
- good lighting. The speaker should always be in good light and we 
should notice light from windows in front earlier (like it was at 
Simon's keynote last year, was hard to film).

This should be some working setup. I myself can provide 2 cameras and 1 
tripod. I would prefer the streaming solution as this can provide more 
participation from the outside (streaming to Second Life would be nice 
aswell but then you need a Quicktime Streaming Server which are not that 
easy to get and are expensive. Flash streaming on the net is free these 
days and getting better and better).

ustream.tv also allows you to download the recordings, convert/edit them 
and upload them somewhere else. It also hosts your recordings if you 
wish to do so. In general I'd go for http://blip.tv if you want to host 
videos, thus no sponsor should be needed for hosting videos.

> I suspect that after the conference everybody is too tired to actually
> do anything. I think that if somebody wants to do this stuff, they
> should be dedicated to do that, and the setup should be such that
> publishing it is a matter of pushing a button, more or less. Otherwise
> it won't happen, and may be just a waste of energy.

Well, I think if some volunteers even just record a few talks and put 
even fewer of them online, that's still ok as long as people do not 
expect everything to happen. If they do, they should think about helping 
  by e.g. controlling cameras, providing something etc.

cheers,

Christian




-- 
Christian Scholz                         video blog: http://comlounge.tv
COM.lounge                                   blog: http://mrtopf.de/blog
Luetticher Strasse 10                                    Skype: HerrTopf
52064 Aachen                              Homepage: http://comlounge.net
Tel: +49 241 400 730 0                           E-Mail cs at comlounge.net
Fax: +49 241 979 00 850                               IRC: MrTopf, Tao_T

connect with me: http://mrtopf.de/connect

From regebro at gmail.com  Mon Mar 17 17:00:41 2008
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:00:41 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] recording Europython
In-Reply-To: <47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net>
References: <200803140015.m2E0FQfi002361@theraft.openend.se>
	<319e029f0803141317s275a750ci82046b35b0f3cf82@mail.gmail.com>
	<47DE84EE.4030205@comlounge.net>
Message-ID: <319e029f0803170900q60aa20cfsac2f58bb9cb8d559@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 3:49 PM, Christian Scholz <cs at comlounge.net> wrote:
>  Well, that's not completely true. First of all the recording at
>  EuroPython 2007 was my own decision to do and thus completely
>  voluntarily and there even appeared most of the talks I recorded at
>  http://comlounge.tv

Oh, OK, then I misrembembered, I thought there was some more people.
So it was only the Plone Cnference recordings that gone missing (yours
of course didn't, but the official ones).

>  In the case of capturing and rendering those computers used for it are
>  usually taken by this so you cannot really do much in parallel unless
>  you have lots of computers.

Which is why they asked to borrow peoples laptops here at PyCon. :)

>  What I learned from previous conferences was that a somewhat different
>  workflow might work better in which you do as much as you can on
>  location, including publishing it. This can work as follows:
>
>  - put a camera with tripod in every room you want to capture
>  - attach it to a laptop/computer
>  - stream it live via http://ustream.tv or similar services.
>  - record it on the service
>  - copy the embed code over to some blog or wiki or website.

Yes, exactly! This is not going to get the good uality with
synchronized slides and stuff, but you don't need that. It's cool, but
a straight recording of not amazing quality is better than no
recording.

>  - a wireless microphone or some connection to an existing microphone to
>  get better sound (that's problem number one usually, getting not the
>  typing around you but the speaker's voice on tape)
>  - good lighting. The speaker should always be in good light and we
>  should notice light from windows in front earlier (like it was at
>  Simon's keynote last year, was hard to film).

Somebody that has a second mic to catch the questions at the end is a
really good thing as well. That also improves the experience at the
conference as well.

-- 
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
+33 661 58 14 64

From david at boddie.org.uk  Tue Mar 18 02:02:39 2008
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 02:02:39 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython 2008 - Any interest in tutorials?
Message-ID: <200803180202.39481.david@boddie.org.uk>

As many of you are already aware, preparations for this year's EuroPython
are under way. For the second year running, the event will be held in
Vilnius, Lithuania, with the main programme taking place on Monday 7th,
Tuesday 8th and Wednesday 9th July.

Those of us involved with organising the conference are currently looking
for ways in which we can make the event more interesting for beginners and
experts alike.

One way in which we could do this, particularly for people who are learning
Python, is to allocate time for tutorials. This approach appears to be
popular at conferences like PyCon and PyCon UK, but isn't something we
normally do at EuroPython, though there are often talks are aimed at
beginners in the schedule.

What we'd like to know is:

 * Is this something that you would like to see?
 * Would you be interested in giving a tutorial?
 * Which subject would you be interested in hearing/talking about?

If you answered "yes" to either of the first two questions, please feel
free to add suggestions for tutorials, either as a participant or as a
speaker, to this page on the EuroPython Wiki:

  http://www.europython.org/community/Talk_Suggestions

We're always looking for more participants/organisers. Please take a look
at this page on the EuroPython Web site for more details on how to get
involved:

  http://www.europython.org/community/Participants

Hope to see some of you there!

David Boddie - EuroPython 2008 participant :-)

From regebro at gmail.com  Fri Mar 21 16:13:14 2008
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed?
Message-ID: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com>

I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython,
when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not
even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really
like Vilnius.

But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e.
Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I
thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I
could actually do something. :)

Well, do ya?

-- 
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
+33 661 58 14 64

From lac at openend.se  Fri Mar 21 16:34:45 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:34:45 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed?
In-Reply-To: Message from "Lennart Regebro" <regebro@gmail.com> of "Fri,
	21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100."
	<319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> 
References: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com> 
Message-ID: <200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:13:14 +0100, "Lennart Regebro" writes:
>I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython,
>when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not
>even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really
>like Vilnius.
>
>But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e.
>Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I
>thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I
>could actually do something. :)
>
>Well, do ya?
>
>-- 
>Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
>http://www.colliberty.com/
>+33 661 58 14 64

Yes please.

There are actually a whole lot of jobs which you could do from your
computer at home.  If you show up at the EP organising meeting
we are having at 19.00 CET today, we can point you at some, or
look at this list:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPythonRoles?highlight=%28roles%29

And please join europython-improve at python.org where we are
discussing things.

For talks:
Think of themes that you would like to have covered at Europython,
and talks you would like to see, as well as people you might like to
have give them.  Also were you at the PyCON 'Teach me Twisted'
session where Steve Holden was the learner?  We'd like to hear from
somebody who attended it how it worked in more detail.

Thanks very much, and thank you for volunteering,
Laura Creighton (for everybody)




From regebro at gmail.com  Fri Mar 21 16:48:58 2008
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:48:58 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed?
In-Reply-To: <200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se>
References: <regebro@gmail.com>
	<319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com>
	<200803211534.m2LFYjW4008808@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <319e029f0803210848s378f48d9lc9ac5093a7cd0b51@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:34 PM, Laura Creighton <lac at openend.se> wrote:
>  There are actually a whole lot of jobs which you could do from your
>  computer at home.

It should be noted that I couldn't organize my way out of a paper bag,
so if it involves organizing something, or calling people, I'm gonna
suck. :)

>  If you show up at the EP organising meeting
>  we are having at 19.00 CET today

OK, I'll do that.

>  And please join europython-improve at python.org where we are
>  discussing things.

Done.

>  have give them.  Also were you at the PyCON 'Teach me Twisted'
>  session where Steve Holden was the learner?

No, sorry...

-- 
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
+33 661 58 14 64

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Fri Mar 21 22:18:51 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:18:51 -0700
Subject: [EuroPython] Program committee help needed?
In-Reply-To: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <319e029f0803210813h4c64c7f2n2d52edb37151fc6b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f604188c0803211418i44381e89tb29ccc1adb5af8a1@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:13 AM, Lennart Regebro <regebro at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm a bit annoyed that I don't have any time to help with EuroPython,
>  when they organizers are so evidently overworked. I'll probably not
>  even have time/money to go this year, which sucks, because I really
>  like Vilnius.

Yeah me too, a lot.  Perfect conference hotel, POV brings experience.
But then Gothenburg has Chalmers, Open End...

How about just go back and forth between these two?  OK just
a fantasy, a way of registering my enthusiasm for both venues.

Kirby

>
>  But at PyCon they said they needed help with the program comitt?e.
>  Well, that's a job that I can do from my computer at home! So I
>  thought, maybe EuroPython also need help with that? Because then I
>  could actually do something. :)
>
>  Well, do ya?
>
>  --
>  Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
>  http://www.colliberty.com/
>  +33 661 58 14 64
>  _______________________________________________
>  EuroPython mailing list
>  EuroPython at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sat Mar 22 22:30:12 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 22:30:12 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
Message-ID: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>

We?ve had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it 
is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since 
EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it?

Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes:

http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo

We?ll announce the winning logo after a suitable amount of time has elapsed, 
but don?t risk being too late: visit the site and vote now!

(Apologies to anyone reading this for the second or third time. As some of you 
may have noticed, EuroPython conference blog entries are now carried by the 
Planet Python feed.)

From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net  Sat Mar 22 23:10:41 2008
From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:10:41 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:30:12PM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote:
> We?ve had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it 
> is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since 
> EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it?
> 
> Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes:
> 
> http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo

None of the links on that page show me any logo. And when I click on the 
'full size verzion' link I am redirected to 

http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/Badge.png

I think a decent CMS is a bigger priority that the logo...


-- 
__________________________________________________
"Nothing is as subjective as reality"
Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net
__________________________________________________

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Sat Mar 22 23:20:37 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 15:20:37 -0700
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>

Works for me.  I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full size page.

I don't think I'll vote though.  Feeling like I don't live in Europe,
so I shouldn't have a say.

Good work though -- very promising graphics.

Kirby


On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Reinoud van Leeuwen
<reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 10:30:12PM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote:
>  > We've had many great submissions for the EuroPython logo competition, and it
>  > is now time to make a decision: the current logo has been in use since
>  > EuroPython began back in 2002; which logo should replace it?
>  >
>  > Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your votes:
>  >
>  > http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo
>
>  None of the links on that page show me any logo. And when I click on the
>  'full size verzion' link I am redirected to
>
>  http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/Badge.png
>
>  I think a decent CMS is a bigger priority that the logo...
>
>
>  --
>  __________________________________________________
>  "Nothing is as subjective as reality"
>  Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
>  http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net
>  __________________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>  EuroPython mailing list
>  EuroPython at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
>

From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net  Sat Mar 22 23:36:49 2008
From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen)
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote:

> Works for me.  I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full 
> size page.

Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason:

on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/Jonkman the 
not working image is referred to as                                             
http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari)                       
                                                                                
The HTML source is                                                              
                                                                                
<a class="external"  
href="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"><img
alt="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"
src="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"
title="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png" /></a>

Other images on the page are things like:                                       
src="/wiki/modern/img/star_off.png"                                             

But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki                           

So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using a 
language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy 
like this is really bad press IMHO....
                                                                   
-- 
__________________________________________________
"Nothing is as subjective as reality"
Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net
__________________________________________________

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Mar 23 00:26:33 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 00:26:33 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Saturday 22 March 2008 23:36:49 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote:
> > Works for me.  I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full
> > size page.
>
> Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason:
>
> on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/Jonkman the
> not working image is referred to as
> http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari)

Yes, this is the result of what the MoinMoin help actually suggests:

http://www.europython.org/community/HelpOnLinking

> The HTML source is
>
> <a class="external"
> href="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"><img
> alt="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"
> src="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png"
> title="http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png" /></a>
>
> Other images on the page are things like:
> src="/wiki/modern/img/star_off.png"
>
> But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki

Not necessarily. Please see RFC 3986, which is probably what most browsers 
support:

http://gbiv.com/protocols/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#components

I'd be interested to hear whether people experience difficulties with Internet 
Explorer.

> So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using a
> language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy
> like this is really bad press IMHO....

I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986 to its 
developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some technology with 
Safari, has no problems showing the images.

Paul

P.S. Volunteers are always welcome to improve the Web site.

From lac at openend.se  Sun Mar 23 01:00:56 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 01:00:56 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: Message from Reinoud van Leeuwen <reinoud.v@n.leeuwen.net> 
	of "Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100."
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> 
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl> 
Message-ID: <200803230000.m2N00vlr022415@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Sat, 22 Mar 2008 23:36:49 +0100, Reinoud van Leeuwen writes:
<snip>

>So please fix the other problems first, and test your code. We are using 
>a 
>language that has fantastic test frameworks. Delivering something sloppy 
>like this is really bad press IMHO....

>Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
>http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net

Want to join europython-improve as a tester for safari?

Laura

From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net  Sun Mar 23 02:07:12 2008
From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 02:07:12 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:33AM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote:

> I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986 to its 
> developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some technology with 
> Safari, has no problems showing the images.

Yes, blame others instead of making a website that all browsers can 
read...
I'm very surprised no one else noticed this...

-- 
__________________________________________________
"Nothing is as subjective as reality"
Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net
__________________________________________________

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Mar 23 03:15:07 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 03:15:07 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<20080323010712.GF61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <200803230315.07325.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Sunday 23 March 2008 02:07:12 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 12:26:33AM +0100, Paul Boddie wrote:
> > I suggest that you bring Safari's apparent inability to handle RFC 3986
> > to its developers. I note that Konqueror 3.5.6, which shares some
> > technology with Safari, has no problems showing the images.
>
> Yes, blame others instead of making a website that all browsers can
> read...

Unfortunately, I can only personally test using two different browsers (each 
having two different versions [*]) and have to rely on others to point out 
incompatibilities which occur with other browsers. I do not, I'm afraid to 
say, run all browsers myself.

> I'm very surprised no one else noticed this...

Well, the Safari people will need to deal with this issue eventually, if they 
haven't done so already in a version later than the one you're using. Some 
version and platform information would indeed be nice in order to work out 
who this problem might affect besides yourself.

In any case, thank you for the feedback. If you're inclined to help out with 
testing or with any other volunteer activity, please feel free to join the 
europython-improve list:

http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython-improve

Paul

[*] Firefox 1.5 and 2.0, Konqueror 3.5.2 and 3.5.6.

From regebro at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 08:14:49 2008
From: regebro at gmail.com (Lennart Regebro)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:14:49 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<20080322221041.GC61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
Message-ID: <319e029f0803230014h1c6fb44fyc7b13629b2467de6@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 11:36 PM, Reinoud van Leeuwen
<reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net> wrote:
>  But /wiki is of course something else that http:/wiki

It's actually the same thing, and  valid syntax. That syntax should be
avoided (so the site is doing wrong) but allowed (which Safari
doesn't, so it's also wrong).

-- 
Lennart Regebro: Zope and Plone consulting.
http://www.colliberty.com/
+33 661 58 14 64

From paulj at webtic.nl  Sun Mar 23 10:58:34 2008
From: paulj at webtic.nl (Paul Jongsma)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:58:34 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<f604188c0803221520r2d8fe582p2c6d83f2418bcb3b@mail.gmail.com>
	<20080322223649.GE61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl>


On 23 mrt 2008, at 00:26, Paul Boddie wrote:

> On Saturday 22 March 2008 23:36:49 Reinoud van Leeuwen wrote:
>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2008 at 03:20:37PM -0700, kirby urner wrote:
>>> Works for me.  I get a list of contestants, a thumbnail page, a full
>>> size page.
>>
>> Hmm Firefox accepts it but Safari not. And for a good reason:
>>
>> on http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo/ 
>> Jonkman the
>> not working image is referred to as
>> http:/wiki/ep2008/img/logo/europython-112x80.png (Safari)
>
> Yes, this is the result of what the MoinMoin help actually suggests:
>
> http://www.europython.org/community/HelpOnLinking

While not being intimate with MoinMoin I do use it sometimes and never  
seen this problem on other Wiki's
As I am not allowed to edit that specific page I cannot see the coding  
of it, but if it using ImageLink that might be the cause, it appears  
to be outdated, see http://moinmo.in/MacroMarket/ImageLink


> I'd be interested to hear whether people experience difficulties  
> with Internet
> Explorer.

Checked IE6, it renders it into a working page.
Tested both Safari 3.0 and 3.1 this covers all recent Mac OS X  
releases, both fail.
It would be good to fix the pages.

Best regards

Paul


From paul at boddie.org.uk  Sun Mar 23 15:56:40 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 15:56:40 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl>
Message-ID: <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk>

On Sunday 23 March 2008 10:58:34 Paul Jongsma wrote:
>
> While not being intimate with MoinMoin I do use it sometimes and never
> seen this problem on other Wiki's
> As I am not allowed to edit that specific page I cannot see the coding
> of it, but if it using ImageLink that might be the cause, it appears
> to be outdated, see http://moinmo.in/MacroMarket/ImageLink

You should still be able to view the raw text of the page - see the actions 
menu for details. In fact, the images are inserted using the conventional 
link syntax.

> Checked IE6, it renders it into a working page.
> Tested both Safari 3.0 and 3.1 this covers all recent Mac OS X
> releases, both fail.
> It would be good to fix the pages.

Thanks for the report. I'll update the page to use the full URLs for the 
images instead.

Paul

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Sun Mar 23 16:40:04 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 08:40:04 -0700
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl>
	<200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <f604188c0803230840j149429d0o96cc49ead583cbb8@mail.gmail.com>

Finding it ironic how "let's vote for our flag" turned into wrestling
with the machinery in the voting booth.

Kirby

From reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net  Sun Mar 23 17:10:11 2008
From: reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net (Reinoud van Leeuwen)
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 17:10:11 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
In-Reply-To: <f604188c0803230840j149429d0o96cc49ead583cbb8@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<200803230026.34048.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<833DAA6E-8505-4838-91CF-2F6CB53BC22D@webtic.nl>
	<200803231556.40926.paul@boddie.org.uk>
	<f604188c0803230840j149429d0o96cc49ead583cbb8@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20080323161011.GM61008@spoetnik.xs4all.nl>

On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 08:40:04AM -0700, kirby urner wrote:

> Finding it ironic how "let's vote for our flag" turned into wrestling
> with the machinery in the voting booth.

Isn't that the trend nowadays with electronic voting systems? ";-)

-- 
__________________________________________________
"Nothing is as subjective as reality"
Reinoud van Leeuwen    reinoud.v at n.leeuwen.net
http://reinoud.van.leeuwen.net
__________________________________________________

From mvm at brutele.be  Mon Mar 24 13:49:50 2008
From: mvm at brutele.be (mvm)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:49:50 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Vote for a New EuroPython Logo!
References: <200803222230.12737.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <011501c88dad$8c6dbdc0$6501a8c0@gfx02>

> Visit the EuroPython Web site to browse the entrants and to cast your 
> votes:
>
> http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo

And here, You can see all my proposals :
http://mvm.quintagroup.com/websites/mvm/epclogos/serie1




Vincent Maton
 web designer
--------------------------
Graphic :: Designer :: Internet
   www.mvmgraphic.be


From mambomalsehn at web.de  Mon Mar 24 17:48:01 2008
From: mambomalsehn at web.de (johannes faber)
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:48:01 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Digest, Vol 55, Issue 7
In-Reply-To: <mailman.9.1206270007.22793.europython@python.org>
References: <mailman.9.1206270007.22793.europython@python.org>
Message-ID: <1ED51E08-9D36-4DBE-92E8-D1683249221C@web.de>


Am 23. Mrz 2008 um 12:00 schrieb europython-request at python.org:

>>> http://www.europython.org/community/Planning/ProposedLogo


there is no problem with safari 3.1 an mac os x 10.4.11
-------------- next part --------------
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From renesd at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 00:55:22 2008
From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 10:55:22 +1100
Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into
	header...
Message-ID: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com>

hi,

the euro python front page needs its rss feed in the head of the html.

<link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="EuroPython
Conference RSS Feed" href="http://europython.wordpress.com/feed/" />
<link rel="pingback" href="http://europython.wordpress.com/xmlrpc.php" />


cheers,

From renesd at gmail.com  Tue Mar 25 01:01:09 2008
From: renesd at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ren=E9_Dudfield?=)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:01:09 +1100
Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into
	header...
In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com>

Another improvement for the blog navigation...

Put a link to the main europython page on the blog.

Probably in the nav section next to the about link...
<li><a href="http://www.europython.org/">Main europython page</a></li>

cheers,



On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:55 AM, Ren? Dudfield <renesd at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi,
>
>  the euro python front page needs its rss feed in the head of the html.
>
>  <link rel="alternate" type="application/rss+xml" title="EuroPython
>  Conference RSS Feed" href="http://europython.wordpress.com/feed/" />
>  <link rel="pingback" href="http://europython.wordpress.com/xmlrpc.php" />
>
>
>  cheers,
>

From paul at boddie.org.uk  Tue Mar 25 01:30:07 2008
From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:30:07 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into
	header...
In-Reply-To: <64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com>
References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com>
	<64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk>

Ren?,

Thank you for the suggestions!

> Another improvement for the blog navigation...
>
> Put a link to the main europython page on the blog.
>
> Probably in the nav section next to the about link...
> <li><a href="http://www.europython.org/">Main europython page</a></li>

The blog is a WordPress site, so I'll need some time to figure this out - it 
doesn't seem as simple as just editing the HTML, unfortunately.

I've added the link elements to the development version of the Wiki, however, 
and I'll try and update the public site tomorrow.

Regards,

Paul

From cs at comlounge.net  Tue Mar 25 01:29:28 2008
From: cs at comlounge.net (Christian Scholz)
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:29:28 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] rss feed on front page missing. paste this into
 header...
In-Reply-To: <200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk>
References: <64ddb72c0803241655s79f82aelecb9b777a666dcd6@mail.gmail.com>	<64ddb72c0803241701l66ffdc9bs34218a79dba2f549@mail.gmail.com>
	<200803250130.07945.paul@boddie.org.uk>
Message-ID: <47E84768.8040807@comlounge.net>

Hi!

That link was already in the blogroll but the blogroll wasn't in the 
sidebar ;-)

I changed this now and it shows up.


-- Christian

Paul Boddie wrote:
> Ren?,
> 
> Thank you for the suggestions!
> 
>> Another improvement for the blog navigation...
>>
>> Put a link to the main europython page on the blog.
>>
>> Probably in the nav section next to the about link...
>> <li><a href="http://www.europython.org/">Main europython page</a></li>
> 
> The blog is a WordPress site, so I'll need some time to figure this out - it 
> doesn't seem as simple as just editing the HTML, unfortunately.
> 
> I've added the link elements to the development version of the Wiki, however, 
> and I'll try and update the public site tomorrow.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Paul
> _______________________________________________
> EuroPython mailing list
> EuroPython at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython


-- 
Christian Scholz                         video blog: http://comlounge.tv
COM.lounge                                   blog: http://mrtopf.de/blog
Luetticher Strasse 10                                    Skype: HerrTopf
52064 Aachen                              Homepage: http://comlounge.net
Tel: +49 241 400 730 0                           E-Mail cs at comlounge.net
Fax: +49 241 979 00 850                               IRC: MrTopf, Tao_T

connect with me: http://mrtopf.de/connect

From steve at canonical.com  Wed Mar 26 12:14:58 2008
From: steve at canonical.com (Steve Alexander)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
Message-ID: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com>

I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year.  Let me
know what you think of this.

The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion.  His
web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/

Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to
give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we
can do about it.


The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
its problems.

-- Steve

From lac at openend.se  Wed Mar 26 12:27:15 2008
From: lac at openend.se (Laura Creighton)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:27:15 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
In-Reply-To: Message from Steve Alexander <steve@canonical.com> 
	of "Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100." <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> 
References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> 
Message-ID: <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se>

In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes:
>I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year.  Let me
>know what you think of this.
>
>The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion.  His
>web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/
>
>Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to
>give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we
>can do about it.
>
>
>The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
>lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
>about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
>its problems.
>
>-- Steve

One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the
USA version of copyright.  People here believe that the law, history,
and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not.  

Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are
working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries --
in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting
right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think
it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over.
Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in
patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know
where to round up the usual suspects.

Laura

From david at boddie.org.uk  Thu Mar 27 00:29:23 2008
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 00:29:23 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython]  Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
Message-ID: <200803270029.23438.david@boddie.org.uk>

On Wed Mar 26 12:27:15 CET 2008, Laura Creighton wrote:

> Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are
> working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries --
> in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting
> right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think
> it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over.

I think this would be very useful. I think an discussion of these issues
would be educational for a lot of people right now.

David

From ct at gocept.com  Thu Mar 27 07:26:15 2008
From: ct at gocept.com (Christian Theune)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:26:15 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
In-Reply-To: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com>
References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com>
Message-ID: <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy>

Hi,

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:14:58PM +0100, Steve Alexander wrote:
> I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year.  Let me
> know what you think of this.
> 
> The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion.  His
> web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/
> 
> Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to
> give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we
> can do about it.

Yay. I really enjoy Karls writing (he also wrote "Producing Open Source
Software").

> The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
> lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
> about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
> its problems.

I liked his presentation. In fact I thought it was the best keynote at PyCon
actually.

Christian

-- 
gocept gmbh & co. kg - forsterstrasse 29 - 06112 halle (saale) - germany
www.gocept.com - ct at gocept.com - phone +49 345 122 9889 7 -
fax +49 345 122 9889 1 - zope and plone consulting and development

From funthyme at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 12:56:35 2008
From: funthyme at gmail.com (John Pinner)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:56:35 +0000
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
In-Reply-To: <200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se>
References: <steve@canonical.com> <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com>
	<200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se>
Message-ID: <ff8a32f0803270456o6eb638dbmf7d68c9d6402b3a5@mail.gmail.com>

On 26/03/2008, Laura Creighton <lac at openend.se> wrote:
> In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes:
>  >I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year.  Let me
>  >know what you think of this.
>  >
>  >The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion.  His
>  >web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/
>  >
>  >Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to
>  >give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we
>  >can do about it.
>  >
>  >
>  >The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
>  >lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
>  >about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
>  >its problems.
>  >
>  >-- Steve
>
>
> One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the
>  USA version of copyright.  People here believe that the law, history,
>  and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not.
>
>  Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are
>  working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries --
>  in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting
>  right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think
>  it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over.
>  Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in
>  patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know
>  where to round up the usual suspects.

The European position is quite different, but equally important. I
think that we should have a copyright session (panel?) and leave the
choice of speakers to Laura's judgement.

John
--

>
>  Laura
>
> _______________________________________________
>  EuroPython mailing list
>  EuroPython at python.org
>  http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython
>

From kirby.urner at gmail.com  Thu Mar 27 15:54:59 2008
From: kirby.urner at gmail.com (kirby urner)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 07:54:59 -0700
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
In-Reply-To: <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy>
References: <47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com> <20080327062615.GC14099@mindy>
Message-ID: <f604188c0803270754j110c90d2uf87cb24d9e4756bb@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Christian Theune <ct at gocept.com> wrote:

<< SNIP >>

>  > The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
>  > lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
>  > about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
>  > its problems.
>
>  I liked his presentation. In fact I thought it was the best keynote at PyCon
>  actually.
>
>  Christian
>

I thought the talk was topical (well suited to a Pycon, though borderline
not because not about Python per se, more OSCONish in flavor) and
well prepared and delivered.

I personally get impatient with the whole way economist-lawyers think
(prisoners dilemma, tragedy of the commons, free rider problem),
think economics needs competition from competing disciplines
(general systems theory anyone?), think lawyers have been way too
slow getting behind open source, are only doing it now because they
have no choice (so now all of a sudden it "makes sense" whereas
before we were "dot commies") but that's just my griping, not reflecting
on the speaker per se.

He also didn't seem all that aware of the ethnic subcultural aspects
of patent, other intellectual property law, i.e. it's all pretty broken in the
US and only idiot nations would attempt to carbon copy what's so
abysmally not working, again my personal opinion.  But he never
claimed to be offering recipes for others to copy (we already have
a surfeit of open source licenses).

Kirby

From mal at egenix.com  Thu Mar 27 17:54:56 2008
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 17:54:56 +0100
Subject: [EuroPython] Proposal: Keynote speakers for EP 2008
In-Reply-To: <ff8a32f0803270456o6eb638dbmf7d68c9d6402b3a5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <steve@canonical.com>
	<47EA3032.7040909@canonical.com>	<200803261127.m2QBRFF0017179@theraft.openend.se>
	<ff8a32f0803270456o6eb638dbmf7d68c9d6402b3a5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <47EBD160.9050801@egenix.com>

On 2008-03-27 12:56, John Pinner wrote:
> On 26/03/2008, Laura Creighton <lac at openend.se> wrote:
>> In a message of Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:14:58 +0100, Steve Alexander writes:
>>  >I want to propose two keynote speakers for EuroPython this year.  Let me
>>  >know what you think of this.
>>  >
>>  >The first is Karl Fogel, author of the Red Bean book on Subversion.  His
>>  >web site and weblog is at http://rants.org/
>>  >
>>  >Karl's current passion is copyright reform, so I propose inviting him to
>>  >give a keynote at EuroPython about what's up with copyright, and what we
>>  >can do about it.
>>  >
>>  >
>>  >The second is Van Lindberg.  Van is a Python programmer and also a
>>  >lawyer at a US law firm.  He gave a keynote at PyCon this month, also
>>  >about copyright, showing how it works, what it's for, its history and
>>  >its problems.
>>  >
>>  >-- Steve
>>
>>
>> One of the greatest problems we face in Europe is overexposure to the
>>  USA version of copyright.  People here believe that the law, history,
>>  and whatnot is the same as in the USA, when it is not.
>>
>>  Through FFII I have many splendid connections with Europeans who are
>>  working on copyright reform both Europe wide and in their own countries --
>>  in the Netherlands in particular things are getting very interesting
>>  right now -- so if this is a topic we would like to persue, I think
>>  it would work better as a panel discussion with experts from all over.
>>  Having helped host 2 conferences discussing how to make reforms in
>>  patents trademarks and copyrights in the last 16 months, I know
>>  where to round up the usual suspects.
> 
> The European position is quite different, but equally important. I
> think that we should have a copyright session (panel?) and leave the
> choice of speakers to Laura's judgement.

+1

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Mar 27 2008)
 >>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
 >>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

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    eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
     D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
            Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611

From mal at egenix.com  Mon Mar 31 12:02:40 2008
From: mal at egenix.com (M.-A. Lemburg)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:02:40 +0200
Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths
Message-ID: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com>

Andrew's article on this years PyCon:

http://www.amk.ca/diary/2008/03/pycon_2008_a_look_back.html

The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were
considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well
last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions
and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot
better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break
and switching.

What do others think ?

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Mar 31 2008)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

:::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611

From benno.luthiger at id.ethz.ch  Mon Mar 31 14:24:21 2008
From: benno.luthiger at id.ethz.ch (Luthiger Stoll  Benno)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 14:24:21 +0200
Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths
In-Reply-To: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com>
References: <47F0B6C0.1030700@egenix.com>
Message-ID: <E3E477557C6C514EA367E5E40169C49D0168CAB3@EX3.d.ethz.ch>

I strongly agree with this suggestion.

I kind of suffered the flurry caused by people dropping into the room after time or leaving the room before time because of hurrying from room to room between the talks. (And, of course, I caused such disturbances as well when I had to switch).

I got the experience that conferences are better organized if there is time to switch between the talks in different rooms.

Therefore, a 45 minutes scheduling (including 5 minutes for switching) seems a very good solution to me.

Regards,
Benno

______________________________________
ETH Zurich
Benno Luthiger
IT Services
WEP J 14, Weinbergstrasse 109
8092 Zurich, Switzerland

Tel: +41 44 632 57 65
______________________________________



-----Original Message-----
From: europython-bounces at python.org [mailto:europython-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of M.-A. Lemburg
Sent: Montag, 31. M?rz 2008 12:03
To: EuroPython Mailing List
Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths

Andrew's article on this years PyCon:

http://www.amk.ca/diary/2008/03/pycon_2008_a_look_back.html

The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were
considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well
last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions
and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot
better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break
and switching.

What do others think ?

-- 
Marc-Andre Lemburg
eGenix.com

Professional Python Services directly from the Source  (#1, Mar 31 2008)
>>> Python/Zope Consulting and Support ...        http://www.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC.Zope.Database.Adapter ...             http://zope.egenix.com/
>>> mxODBC, mxDateTime, mxTextTools ...        http://python.egenix.com/
________________________________________________________________________

:::: Try mxODBC.Zope.DA for Windows,Linux,Solaris,MacOSX for free ! ::::


   eGenix.com Software, Skills and Services GmbH  Pastor-Loeh-Str.48
    D-40764 Langenfeld, Germany. CEO Dipl.-Math. Marc-Andre Lemburg
           Registered at Amtsgericht Duesseldorf: HRB 46611
_______________________________________________
EuroPython mailing list
EuroPython at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython

From david at boddie.org.uk  Mon Mar 31 15:21:40 2008
From: david at boddie.org.uk (David Boddie)
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:21:40 +0200
Subject: [EuroPython] Talk lengths
Message-ID: <200803311521.40068.david@boddie.org.uk>

On Mon Mar 31 12:02:40 CEST 2008, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:

> The comments on talk length are interesting... 30 minutes were
> considered too short. I found 30 minutes a bit short as well
> last time I did a talk in Vilnius. If you want to have discussions
> and more time switching between talks, then 45 minutes are a lot
> better, IMHO: 30 minutes talk, 10 minutes discussion, 5 minutes break
> and switching.

This topic came up in one of the IRC meetings:

http://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2008/IRCMeetings/IRCMeeting6

For simplicity, we decided that we should keep the 30 vs. 60 minute slots and
make 45 minute sessions fill the rest of the time with discussion. The idea
being that in-depth talks could run to around 45 minutes with 15 minutes for
questions and demos - the longer the talk, the more time you have to leave
for questions. That's the theory, at least.

Maybe 45 minutes slots would work, but I wouldn't want to schedule 45 minute
talks alongside 30 minute ones.

David