From mal at europython.eu Thu Jan 16 17:06:53 2014 From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:06:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython has a new Blog Message-ID: <52D8039D.8080705@europython.eu> The EuroPython Society has setup a new blog for EuroPython in its efforts to provide more conference facilities for the EuroPython organization and to enhance the EuroPython attendee experience. http://blog.europython.eu/ There?s an RSS feed in case you want to subscribe to it: http://blog.europython.eu/rss The blog itself is hosted on Tumblr, so you can also follow the blog using your Tumblr account: log in, visit the blog and click ?Follow" in the upper right corner: http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europython If you?re looking for older blog entries, please check the EuroPython 2013 blog, which lists the entries for 2011-2013: https://ep2013.europython.eu/blog/ Enjoy, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director EuroPython Society http://www.europython-society.org/ From mal at europython.eu Thu Jan 16 17:09:43 2014 From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 17:09:43 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] EuroPython Society website now live Message-ID: <52D80447.5080700@europython.eu> The EuroPython Society has created a new website to collect information on EuroPython, the society and its working: http://www.europython-society.org/ For those who don?t know: the society is a Swedish non-profit organization which was formed in 2004 by the EuroPython organizers to put on EuroPython conferences. A new board was voted in at the EuroPython 2012 conference: https://ep2013.europython.eu/blog/2012/07/08/change-board-europython-society Given the size of EuroPython conferences, we?re working on formalizing the EuroPython selection process, providing resources and arranging with local teams to run EuroPython conferences: http://www.europython-society.org/cfp We consider the EuroPython Society the representation of the EuroPython attendees, so if you have questions, requests for improvements or other ideas on how to improve the series, please feel free to contact us: http://www.europython-society.org/contact You can also become members of the EuroPython Society at no charge and then vote at the general assembly of the society. Please visit our members page for more information: http://www.europython-society.org/members Enjoy, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director EuroPython Society http://www.europython-society.org/ From mal at europython.eu Thu Jan 30 11:29:39 2014 From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Thu, 30 Jan 2014 11:29:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started Message-ID: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> [Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing lists, user groups, etc.; thanks :-)] The EuroPython Society (EPS) has started work on preparing the Call for Participation (CFP) for organizing the EuroPython 2015 conference: http://www.europython-society.org/ For 2015, we are setting up a new structure for the conference organization, which is focused on local and distributed work groups that are closely integrated with the EuroPython Society. We hope to greatly reduce the work load for the local teams, attract community members that want to get involved and to streamline the whole process of transitioning from one location to the next, making the conference organization a lot easier for everyone. If you are interested in potentially signing up as local team or participating in the work groups, please subscribe to one of our communication channels: * Tumblr http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europythonsociety * RSS http://www.europython-society.org/rss * Twitter https://twitter.com/europythons * EuroPython Mailing List https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython We are aiming for end of February as announcement date for the CFP 2015. Enjoy, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director EuroPython Society http://www.europython-society.org/ From ct at gocept.com Fri Jan 31 07:53:02 2014 From: ct at gocept.com (Christian Theune) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 07:53:02 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> Message-ID: Hi, not being part of the organizing team of EP 2014 but noticing how the EuroPython society works: I?d rather recommend everyone who thinks about organizing anything to stay miles away from the EPS for your own sanity. If anyone thinks about participating I?d recommend contacting the organizing team for Berlin 2014 (which was publicly given the task of organizing 2015, too AFAICT). Christian On 30. Jan2014, at 11:29, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > [Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing lists, > user groups, etc.; thanks :-)] > > The EuroPython Society (EPS) has started work on preparing the > Call for Participation (CFP) for organizing the EuroPython 2015 > conference: > > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > For 2015, we are setting up a new structure for the conference > organization, which is focused on local and distributed work groups > that are closely integrated with the EuroPython Society. > > We hope to greatly reduce the work load for the local teams, attract > community members that want to get involved and to streamline the > whole process of transitioning from one location to the next, making > the conference organization a lot easier for everyone. > > If you are interested in potentially signing up as local team or > participating in the work groups, please subscribe to one of > our communication channels: > > * Tumblr > http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europythonsociety > > * RSS > http://www.europython-society.org/rss > > * Twitter > https://twitter.com/europythons > > * EuroPython Mailing List > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > We are aiming for end of February as announcement date for the CFP 2015. > > Enjoy, > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > Director > EuroPython Society > http://www.europython-society.org/ > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython -- Christian Theune ? gocept gmbh & co. kg flyingcircus.io ? operations as a service Forsterstra?e 29 ? 06112 Halle (Saale) ? Tel +49 345 1229889-7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From markuszapke at gmx.net Fri Jan 31 09:14:19 2014 From: markuszapke at gmx.net (=?windows-1252?Q?Markus_Zapke-Gr=FCndemann?=) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 09:14:19 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> Message-ID: <52EB5B5B.3020508@gmx.net> Christian Theune schrieb: > not being part of the organizing team of EP 2014 but noticing how the > EuroPython society works: > > I?d rather recommend everyone who thinks about organizing anything to stay > miles away from the EPS for your own sanity. > > If anyone thinks about participating I?d recommend contacting the organizing > team for Berlin 2014 (which was publicly given the task of organizing 2015, > too AFAICT). I don't understand. Can you please explain in detail? Regards Markus From ct at gocept.com Fri Jan 31 09:20:28 2014 From: ct at gocept.com (Christian Theune) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 09:20:28 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <52EB5B5B.3020508@gmx.net> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <52EB5B5B.3020508@gmx.net> Message-ID: Hi, On 31. Jan2014, at 09:14, Markus Zapke-Gr?ndemann wrote: > Christian Theune schrieb: >> not being part of the organizing team of EP 2014 but noticing how the >> EuroPython society works: >> >> I?d rather recommend everyone who thinks about organizing anything to stay >> miles away from the EPS for your own sanity. >> >> If anyone thinks about participating I?d recommend contacting the organizing >> team for Berlin 2014 (which was publicly given the task of organizing 2015, >> too AFAICT). > I don't understand. Can you please explain in detail? I?m close friends with some of the EP 2014 organizers. Seeing them in such pain an despair caused by the EPS makes me feel so sad for our community. Many of the current organizers have a lot of experience in organizing a conference and getting things done. Being volunteers they should not have to deal with this arrogance of bureaucracy. *ANY* organization having volunteers work for them should be extremely humble for having *anyone* spend their spare time for them. The EPS is the opposite. They position themselves as strong leaders of whatever (starting with a back-chamber election two years ago) and having to defend the good name of the EPS (for whatever reason) to avoid the volunteers doing anything wrong. *sigh* Again, to any organization that deals with volunteers: shut the fuck up, enable people, get out of their hair and get your ego down. Christian -- Christian Theune ? gocept gmbh & co. kg flyingcircus.io ? operations as a service Forsterstra?e 29 ? 06112 Halle (Saale) ? Tel +49 345 1229889-7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 495 bytes Desc: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail URL: From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Jan 31 11:10:01 2014 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 11:10:01 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> Message-ID: <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> Hi Marc-Andr?, this call comes as a little surprise to me. To my knowledge after EuroPython 2013 in Florence there was a call for proposals for 2014 and 2015, following a rule saying that it would be wise to reuse locally accumulated knowledge at least once. Berlin volunteered to organized these two and the EPS accepted. Right? I'd much appreciate if you could elaborate on how the fact of posting your call can be considered an improvement in the EuroPython conference series, especially since the event in 2014 hasn't even happened, yet? As an aside, I'm much in favor of improving things, including the EuroPython conference series. Everything can be improved, for ever. But after reading a bit on europython-society.org I must say I'm finding the amount of helpful information or tools on how to organize an EuroPython conference rather underwhelming. Instead there is much text about the EPS bylaws, board, members and a general assembly. Not enough though, to understand e.g. how the board approves membership applications. I've been to at least five EuroPython conferences, but I can't remember having given my vote to anybody in the EPS board. True, I'm not an EPS member, the same holds for thousands of others. BTW, how many members does the EPS have? europython-society.org doesn't tell, or I couldn't find the figure. Does it have enough to speak for the entire community? A final remark, just weeks ago I briefly thought about becoming an EPS member without quite knowing the implications. I've changed my mind again, now, because I've seen too many organizations with members obsessed by themselves and the letters of their own rules rather than by their real subject. I'm glad I've missed that trap, so I can actually contribute something to a successful conference. Which is not to say that the EPS doesn't make a useful job, it's just maybe not always too obvious, at least for me. Regards, Dinu PS: BTW, I'm making a wild guess here, but the EuroPython list signature just maybe should rather read "21th-27th July" instead of "21th27th July". M.-A. Lemburg: > [Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing lists, > user groups, etc.; thanks :-)] > > The EuroPython Society (EPS) has started work on preparing the > Call for Participation (CFP) for organizing the EuroPython 2015 > conference: > > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > For 2015, we are setting up a new structure for the conference > organization, which is focused on local and distributed work groups > that are closely integrated with the EuroPython Society. > > We hope to greatly reduce the work load for the local teams, attract > community members that want to get involved and to streamline the > whole process of transitioning from one location to the next, making > the conference organization a lot easier for everyone. > > If you are interested in potentially signing up as local team or > participating in the work groups, please subscribe to one of > our communication channels: > > * Tumblr > http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europythonsociety > > * RSS > http://www.europython-society.org/rss > > * Twitter > https://twitter.com/europythons > > * EuroPython Mailing List > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > We are aiming for end of February as announcement date for the CFP 2015. > > Enjoy, > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > Director > EuroPython Society > http://www.europython-society.org/ > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de Fri Jan 31 11:15:53 2014 From: gherman at darwin.in-berlin.de (Dinu Gherman) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 11:15:53 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: I wrote: > PS: BTW, I'm making a wild guess here, but the EuroPython list signature just maybe should rather read "21th-27th July" instead of "21th27th July". And to please the really nitpicking: "21st-27th July" would be even better. Regards, Dinu From mal at europython.eu Fri Jan 31 11:36:20 2014 From: mal at europython.eu (M.-A. Lemburg) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 11:36:20 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <52EB7CA4.2040105@europython.eu> Hi Dinu, as we mentioned in the email: we've *started work* on the call for participation. We'll have more information available when we announce the call :-) A lot of work still needs to be done, since we're aiming for a new model of organizing EuroPython conferences. Please have some patience. Cheers, -- Marc-Andre Lemburg Director EuroPython Society http://www.europython-society.org/ From jasper.paterson at welovesalt.com Fri Jan 31 11:13:29 2014 From: jasper.paterson at welovesalt.com (Jasper Paterson) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 10:13:29 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> Message-ID: <8FC38CC42902EA4A8708EDC9FE900C8C616AD8C6@MBX03.xe2hosting.net> Please remove me from this mailing list. I would argue that it should read '21st-27th July' not '21th-27th July' Jasper Paterson Python Specialist Consultant 9 Wootton Street, London, SE1 8TG // 020 7928 2525 // 07551 157 389 // www.welovesalt.com Salt helps clients find exceptional talent to enable their digital transformation. If a client engages any candidate, standard Salt terms will apply, a copy of which can be found here: http://www.welovesalt.com/terms-and-conditions. Registered Office: Panel House, Park Street, Guildford, GU1 4HN. Registered In England & Wales No. 06912620 Think green. Consider the environment before printing this email or its attachment(s) -----Original Message----- From: EuroPython [mailto:europython-bounces+jasper.paterson=welovesalt.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Dinu Gherman Sent: 31 January 2014 10:10 To: M.-A. Lemburg Cc: EuroPython Mailing List; europython-improve Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started Hi Marc-Andr?, this call comes as a little surprise to me. To my knowledge after EuroPython 2013 in Florence there was a call for proposals for 2014 and 2015, following a rule saying that it would be wise to reuse locally accumulated knowledge at least once. Berlin volunteered to organized these two and the EPS accepted. Right? I'd much appreciate if you could elaborate on how the fact of posting your call can be considered an improvement in the EuroPython conference series, especially since the event in 2014 hasn't even happened, yet? As an aside, I'm much in favor of improving things, including the EuroPython conference series. Everything can be improved, for ever. But after reading a bit on europython-society.org I must say I'm finding the amount of helpful information or tools on how to organize an EuroPython conference rather underwhelming. Instead there is much text about the EPS bylaws, board, members and a general assembly. Not enough though, to understand e.g. how the board approves membership applications. I've been to at least five EuroPython conferences, but I can't remember having given my vote to anybody in the EPS board. True, I'm not an EPS member, the same holds for thousands of others. BTW, how many members does the EPS have? europython-society.org doesn't tell, or I couldn't find the figure. Does it have enough to speak for the entire community? A final remark, just weeks ago I briefly thought about becoming an EPS member without quite knowing the implications. I've changed my mind again, now, because I've seen too many organizations with members obsessed by themselves and the letters of their own rules rather than by their real subject. I'm glad I've missed that trap, so I can actually contribute something to a successful conference. Which is not to say that the EPS doesn't make a useful job, it's just maybe not always too obvious, at least for me. Regards, Dinu PS: BTW, I'm making a wild guess here, but the EuroPython list signature just maybe should rather read "21th-27th July" instead of "21th27th July". M.-A. Lemburg: > [Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing > lists, user groups, etc.; thanks :-)] > > The EuroPython Society (EPS) has started work on preparing the Call > for Participation (CFP) for organizing the EuroPython 2015 > conference: > > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > For 2015, we are setting up a new structure for the conference > organization, which is focused on local and distributed work groups > that are closely integrated with the EuroPython Society. > > We hope to greatly reduce the work load for the local teams, attract > community members that want to get involved and to streamline the > whole process of transitioning from one location to the next, making > the conference organization a lot easier for everyone. > > If you are interested in potentially signing up as local team or > participating in the work groups, please subscribe to one of our > communication channels: > > * Tumblr > http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europythonsociety > > * RSS > http://www.europython-society.org/rss > > * Twitter > https://twitter.com/europythons > > * EuroPython Mailing List > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > We are aiming for end of February as announcement date for the CFP 2015. > > Enjoy, > -- > Marc-Andre Lemburg > Director > EuroPython Society > http://www.europython-society.org/ > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython _______________________________________________ EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list EuroPython at python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From alex.kavanagh at tinwood.com Fri Jan 31 12:35:27 2014 From: alex.kavanagh at tinwood.com (Alex Kavanagh) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 11:35:27 +0000 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <8FC38CC42902EA4A8708EDC9FE900C8C616AD8C6@MBX03.xe2hosting.net> References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <1F337F28-5E15-475F-8F5F-1CB65EC8902D@darwin.in-berlin.de> <8FC38CC42902EA4A8708EDC9FE900C8C616AD8C6@MBX03.xe2hosting.net> Message-ID: On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Jasper Paterson < jasper.paterson at welovesalt.com> wrote: > Please remove me from this mailing list. > You *can* do this yourself: https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython Have a look towards the bottom of the page about unsubscribing. I don't run the list or otherwise have any control or otherwise, but I just thought it might be useful for you to know. Best, Alex. > I would argue that it should read '21st-27th July' not '21th-27th July' > > Jasper Paterson > Python Specialist Consultant > 9 Wootton Street, London, SE1 8TG // 020 7928 2525 // 07551 157 389 // > www.welovesalt.com > > Salt helps clients find exceptional talent to enable their digital > transformation. If a client engages any candidate, > standard Salt terms will apply, a copy of which can be found here: > http://www.welovesalt.com/terms-and-conditions. > Registered Office: Panel House, Park Street, Guildford, GU1 4HN. > Registered In England & Wales No. 06912620 > > Think green. Consider the environment before printing this email or its > attachment(s) > > -----Original Message----- > From: EuroPython [mailto:europython-bounces+jasper.paterson= > welovesalt.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Dinu Gherman > Sent: 31 January 2014 10:10 > To: M.-A. Lemburg > Cc: EuroPython Mailing List; europython-improve > Subject: Re: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython > 2015 has started > > Hi Marc-Andr?, > > this call comes as a little surprise to me. To my knowledge after > EuroPython 2013 in Florence there was a call for proposals for 2014 and > 2015, following a rule saying that it would be wise to reuse locally > accumulated knowledge at least once. Berlin volunteered to organized these > two and the EPS accepted. Right? I'd much appreciate if you could elaborate > on how the fact of posting your call can be considered an improvement in > the EuroPython conference series, especially since the event in 2014 hasn't > even happened, yet? > > As an aside, I'm much in favor of improving things, including the > EuroPython conference series. Everything can be improved, for ever. But > after reading a bit on europython-society.org I must say I'm finding the > amount of helpful information or tools on how to organize an EuroPython > conference rather underwhelming. Instead there is much text about the EPS > bylaws, board, members and a general assembly. Not enough though, to > understand e.g. how the board approves membership applications. > > I've been to at least five EuroPython conferences, but I can't remember > having given my vote to anybody in the EPS board. True, I'm not an EPS > member, the same holds for thousands of others. BTW, how many members does > the EPS have? europython-society.org doesn't tell, or I couldn't find the > figure. Does it have enough to speak for the entire community? > > A final remark, just weeks ago I briefly thought about becoming an EPS > member without quite knowing the implications. I've changed my mind again, > now, because I've seen too many organizations with members obsessed by > themselves and the letters of their own rules rather than by their real > subject. I'm glad I've missed that trap, so I can actually contribute > something to a successful conference. Which is not to say that the EPS > doesn't make a useful job, it's just maybe not always too obvious, at least > for me. > > Regards, > > Dinu > > PS: BTW, I'm making a wild guess here, but the EuroPython list signature > just maybe should rather read "21th-27th July" instead of "21th27th July". > > > M.-A. Lemburg: > > > [Please help spread the word by forwarding to other relevant mailing > > lists, user groups, etc.; thanks :-)] > > > > The EuroPython Society (EPS) has started work on preparing the Call > > for Participation (CFP) for organizing the EuroPython 2015 > > conference: > > > > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > > > For 2015, we are setting up a new structure for the conference > > organization, which is focused on local and distributed work groups > > that are closely integrated with the EuroPython Society. > > > > We hope to greatly reduce the work load for the local teams, attract > > community members that want to get involved and to streamline the > > whole process of transitioning from one location to the next, making > > the conference organization a lot easier for everyone. > > > > If you are interested in potentially signing up as local team or > > participating in the work groups, please subscribe to one of our > > communication channels: > > > > * Tumblr > > http://www.tumblr.com/follow/europythonsociety > > > > * RSS > > http://www.europython-society.org/rss > > > > * Twitter > > https://twitter.com/europythons > > > > * EuroPython Mailing List > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > > > We are aiming for end of February as announcement date for the CFP 2015. > > > > Enjoy, > > -- > > Marc-Andre Lemburg > > Director > > EuroPython Society > > http://www.europython-society.org/ > > _______________________________________________ > > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July EuroPython mailing list > > EuroPython at python.org > > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython > -- Alex Kavanagh Tinwood Ltd -- Open Source Information & Communications Solutions Delivering Freedom, Creating Value w: www.tinwood.com e: alex.kavanagh at tinwood.com a: 20 Sefton Ave, NE6 5QR, Company No: 5233914 (Eng & Wales) Sorry if you got this by mistake - please accept our apologies; please let us know that this message has gone astray so we don't do it again. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Jan 31 13:03:47 2014 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 13:03:47 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: References: <52EA2993.3010403@europython.eu> <52EB5B5B.3020508@gmx.net> Message-ID: <201401311303.48077.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Friday 31. January 2014 09.20.28 Christian Theune wrote: > > I?m close friends with some of the EP 2014 organizers. Seeing them in such > pain an despair caused by the EPS makes me feel so sad for our community. > > Many of the current organizers have a lot of experience in organizing a > conference and getting things done. Being volunteers they should not have > to deal with this arrogance of bureaucracy. *ANY* organization having > volunteers work for them should be extremely humble for having *anyone* > spend their spare time for them. The EPS is the opposite. They position > themselves as strong leaders of whatever (starting with a back-chamber > election two years ago) and having to defend the good name of the EPS (for > whatever reason) to avoid the volunteers doing anything wrong. I haven't had anything to do with EuroPython for the last three years, so I'm not able to comment on anything beyond my last involvement and what has taken place in public, but I think that any discussion about dissatisfaction with the way things are done should be a constructive one. I agree with you completely that the efforts of volunteers should be recognised and that organisations shouldn't make more work for those people because it is convenient to do so. My impression was that the way EuroPython has been organised since I last participated back in 2010, with a certain level of agreement preceding that, involved (and would involve) more coordination from year to year and from venue to venue, meaning that the needless dumping and subsequent reinvention of tools and systems, and the needless loss of expertise would not continue. Not least because only the most motivated and well-resourced groups are able to perform such "tear downs", and even then they are arguably wasting their own time doing so. The way this should all function is that local and general expertise is combined so that everybody benefits. Both the Italian and UK organisers had a track record in organising conferences before taking on the role of hosting the EuroPython conference, and neither were likely to experience problems in doing so. Similarly, there's a lot of expertise amongst this year's organisers, so in principle they could get by doing everything themselves, too. But unless EuroPython is going to be a bit like the (previously) rotating EU presidency where the name just gets used by existing conferences who are doing just fine, there has to be some accumulation of knowledge and experience so that others can consider hosting the conference themselves. In principle, having a parent organisation is beneficial because it should be able to offer substantial support to potential organising groups and be able to retain expertise that is independent of any particular local group. It has always seemed quite absurd that as people rewrite some system or other for the nth time because they didn't like the last one, that people didn't all collaborate on such things - wherever they happen to be situated, because that is of relatively little significance - over the many years that the conference has been in existence. Nobody has to sit somewhere local to the venue a couple of months before, hacking away, even though the circumstances have finally managed to focus their mind on the task in hand. > Again, to any organization that deals with volunteers: shut the fuck up, > enable people, get out of their hair and get your ego down. Well, yes, I agree in principle that volunteers should be able to contribute and not feel like they are doing someone's job for them, although I think that everyone involved with EuroPython is a volunteer, so perhaps it is all about figuring out a consensus. If I were more involved with EuroPython now, I would be worried that no-one would be able to pick up the conference once all the interested organisers of big conferences have taken it on and have decided that once/twice/thrice was enough. My feeling is that conferences should perhaps grow organically, anyway, and this would also allow them to experiment with new formats, which is what PyCon UK has apparently done quite successfully. But that shouldn't mean that there isn't a role to play for an organisation who can assist groups in getting started: there are certainly many useful lessons to be learned from such an entity and its members. It may be the case that this year's organisers don't really need the help - I couldn't say - but others might benefit from it in future. But I think people need to work constructively towards a collaboration that benefits everyone now and in the future. Paul P.S. And before anyone asks, no, I've never had any EuroPython Society role. P.P.S. And I'll gladly take any thread of this nature to another list if this is desired, and before I get mistaken for being the secretary of random people on the Internet for whom the notion of self-service is a new one. (Read the message footer, people!) From jacob at openend.se Fri Jan 31 19:34:51 2014 From: jacob at openend.se (Jacob =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Hall=E9n?=) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 19:34:51 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started Message-ID: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> I am writing this from the sidelines, since I am not actively participating in the EPS board work, though I am formally treasurer for the EPS. This has given me access to what is going on, but I don't have a deep emotional involvement in the ongoing discussions and negotiations. I'm still writing tis in "we" form, since I feel a responsibility for the future of EuroPython. I have been involved in the setup of all new locations for EuroPython and this is the first time we have run into real difficulties in the collaboration with the local organization. In the Call for Participation that was the basis for the selection of a new site for Europython, there was a requirement for the cost of attendance. It turns out that the promised figures from the Berlin team can't be met and that cost of attendance will take a serious jump, compared to Florence. This is a serious problem for the EPS, because our explicit goal is to arrange a really affordable conference. We are now looking at conference fees that are 5 times higher than the ones for G?teborg and it is starting to hurt. Worries about getting enough participants and getting a reasonable mix of people has gotten the EPS board more involved in pricing issues than they would like to be. This is not only a concern for the conference this year, but for future conferences. A large number of the attendees have come to EuroPython for many years. If they are scared off by the price this year, they are less likely to come back in the future. This may be the first EuroPython where I won't be able to afford going. There was another requirement in the CfP, for the local organization to use the conference system that was used and developed by the people in Florence. As Paul Boddie correctly guessed, this is a way for the EPS to enable future local organizers to work with exiting tools, instead of having to invent their own. What happens when people invent their own is that we lose functionality and make conference participants fight buggy software. We actually had a working conference system with voting on talks, accommodation booking and all sorts of features in 2005, but it was abandoned by the people at CERN. It came as a surprise and chock to the EPS when the Berlin team flat out refused to use the system that has been developed by the Italians. They argue that the system is not of production quality. I can't really say much about that, since I haven't seen the code, but there were resources available from the Italians to improve the system and to help with setting it up for the Berlin conference. The EPS has ended up accepting that the Berlin organizers build their own system, but having a system that a new conference organizer can just start using is still a strategic goal. The final issue is that the Berlin team designed a new conference logo. At the same time they decided that they wanted to market the conference as EP14. This is not acceptable to the EPS. We feel that it is important that EuroPython is called EuroPython. We have accepted the logo under the condition that EuroPython is spelled out underneath it, wherever it is used. We have also required that URLs, Email addresses and other communication channels use the EUroPython name and not ep14. This has met severe and (in my opinion) pig- headed resistance from some of the local organizers. Having worked with past organizers, I know that every one of them would have quickly and fully complied with our request. --- The first two points I have mentioned have been resolved with the local organization, but the outcome is not what the EPS would like it to be. The third issue seems to be mostly sorted out, though there may still be some holdover left. This means that there is a working collaboration between the EPS and the local organizers, though there are still points of friction. I hope the collaboration climate can be improved and I am sure that the local organizers are working on it. The EPS board certainly is. I think much of the controversy could have been avoided if we had had direct communications with more people on the ground in Berlin before the preparations for the conference started. The announcement of a CfP for 2015 should be seen in this light. There are a couple of important goals for the EPS that can be better fulfilled by putting out a CfP, based on the things we have learned from the previous process. The winning bid may still come from Berlin, but this time with a clearer understanding of expectations. Now, the EuroPython Society is an open membership organization. If you think the board is mishandling or misjudging the situation, you are free to join and change the way the society operates. Jacob Hall?n From lists at zopyx.com Fri Jan 31 20:04:40 2014 From: lists at zopyx.com (Andreas Jung) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:04:40 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> References: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> Message-ID: <52EBF3C8.8000309@zopyx.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jacob Hall?n wrote: > > In the Call for Participation that was the basis for the selection of > a new site for Europython, there was a requirement for the cost of > attendance. It turns out that the promised figures from the Berlin > team can't be met and that cost of attendance will take a serious > jump, compared to Florence. > > This is a serious problem for the EPS, because our explicit goal is > to arrange a really affordable conference. We are now looking at > conference fees that are 5 times higher than the ones for G?teborg > and it is starting to hurt. Worries about getting enough participants > and getting a reasonable mix of people has gotten the EPS board more > involved in pricing issues than they would like to be. This is not > only a concern for the conference this year, but for future > conferences. A large number of the attendees have come to EuroPython > for many years. If they are scared off by the price this year, they > are less likely to come back in the future. > With respect but this is FUD. The standard ticket price for EP 2013 were for Student/Individual/Business: 330 ? / 500 ? / 620 ? The standard EP 2014 rates are for Student/Individual/Business: 200 ? / 400 ? / 600 ? Keep in mind that all EP 2014 tickets are all-inclusive (social event, catering during the sprints etc.) Andreas -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJS6/PIAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjLcELwM0a9Fe4fLkA+mULWdLfKvP9 HHHLVH99/hs/Pe4ZHAmcUF2rc6T3lyLdAC/XK3EzTl+ppEGdbXlab+oPrN6VfjHv GnUVvt7TKYfCI4cw9FkgqF1wXrqdcRVT0MXu1fecKUxKst+zQ54XaI+wY8MGhDww dC1KA5YTYZODSO3l+WFxpMblxSTeyegutSaPV7XdoxxSq5bhLhnEEj6Ev9uAxql9 Dg87vOpTWe6DU/g/0A3tsaJCduwvOVwYyHBPBPuOYts7zYrVv0QYDdNXi7Jw8Gl4 HVFd2Xb4IBPWYpeUmL1QeFj+o652aE0kIpNAIxHVi856HhyCKwBGqzpqRo/5YOcI C9K6kg6kacINgiwsNSulm2sa0JLM/AsiWMd5ZFgqnaJAi3mpRcaN+dZ00zMPuvax Bhmv3ea1FJubFfu9XQWYJug4R7yEs8zwd9IDikSaQb94v68rDqZ+61SZ2W+Mk+eQ V+P0egepnsnqRp9dnuRAFN9J7gySQmA= =yuc7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: lists.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 353 bytes Desc: not available URL: From horst at zerokspot.com Fri Jan 31 20:47:24 2014 From: horst at zerokspot.com (Horst Gutmann) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:47:24 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> References: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> Message-ID: Hello Jacob :-) I'm currently part of the web team for the EP2014 and have attended EuroPython conferences for the last 4 years. I also helped on the web team for the last couple of PyCon.DE conferences. Thank you for these details from the EPS' point of view. They are much appreciated :-) There have definitely been some friction points over the last couple of months but it seems to me like everything has become much more calm and quiet over the last month (at least from what I can gather by not noticing all that my burner roofs anymore ;-)). I just wanted to contribute a little bit to the whole "software" topic since some of the statements issues here might be interpreted in a wrong way: The point about the software being used for EP2014 indicates that this software is completely new, which isn't true. It has been used and updated over the last couple of years for the PyCon.DE conference series. It definitely needed and still needs a lot of work to use it for a EuroPython conference, but I'm certain that this would be the case for any software in preparation for a new conference year. We had some issues with previous year's software which were discussed in other mail exchanges between the EPS and the local organizer group, so I don't really want to reiterate them here. That being said, I totally agree that there should be a software component to the conference package as handed out by the EPS and it would help if you could reuse that explicit knowledge from previous years. The problem with the current approach (speaking totally for myself here and not as part of an organization or group) is, though, that such a software should not be written as part of the preparation for a specific event. The timeframe there is usually far to tight to create anything that might be usable for anything but the local team. We saw some of this in the previous year's software as we see it in this year's. Me having worked on this software for the last 2 years definitely helps here when it comes to adapting it to the EP format which probably was one of the reasons why we eventually decided to go with the PyCon.DE software. That being a "flatout" refusal is slightly exaggerated. We thought quite long and hard about it and most of use at least skimmed over the code to see how easy it would be to adapt to what we had in mind. But as said before, this has already been discussed in a more appropriate forum. So my proposal would be to create some kind ... let's call it a "task force" (that sounds exciting ;-)) with volunteers from as many previous EP conferences to come up with a set of requirements and ideally also a base-implementation that can then really be used by local organizers :-) From my perspective (and speaking only for myself here) the requirement to use the previous software at this point is unrealistic if there are alternatives the local group has more local knowledge with. If you've read all the way down to this point: Thank you very much :-) -- Horst On 31 Jan 2014, at 19:34, Jacob Hall?n wrote: > I am writing this from the sidelines, since I am not actively > participating in > the EPS board work, though I am formally treasurer for the EPS. This > has given > me access to what is going on, but I don't have a deep emotional > involvement > in the ongoing discussions and negotiations. I'm still writing tis in > "we" > form, since I feel a responsibility for the future of EuroPython. > > I have been involved in the setup of all new locations for EuroPython > and this > is the first time we have run into real difficulties in the > collaboration with > the local organization. > > In the Call for Participation that was the basis for the selection of > a new > site for Europython, there was a requirement for the cost of > attendance. It > turns out that the promised figures from the Berlin team can't be met > and that > cost of attendance will take a serious jump, compared to Florence. > > This is a serious problem for the EPS, because our explicit goal is to > arrange > a really affordable conference. We are now looking at conference fees > that are > 5 times higher than the ones for G?teborg and it is starting to hurt. > Worries > about getting enough participants and getting a reasonable mix of > people has > gotten the EPS board more involved in pricing issues than they would > like to > be. This is not only a concern for the conference this year, but for > future > conferences. A large number of the attendees have come to EuroPython > for many > years. If they are scared off by the price this year, they are less > likely to > come back in the future. > > This may be the first EuroPython where I won't be able to afford > going. > > There was another requirement in the CfP, for the local organization > to use > the conference system that was used and developed by the people in > Florence. > As Paul Boddie correctly guessed, this is a way for the EPS to enable > future > local organizers to work with exiting tools, instead of having to > invent their > own. What happens when people invent their own is that we lose > functionality > and make conference participants fight buggy software. We actually had > a > working conference system with voting on talks, accommodation booking > and all > sorts of features in 2005, but it was abandoned by the people at CERN. > > It came as a surprise and chock to the EPS when the Berlin team flat > out > refused to use the system that has been developed by the Italians. > They argue > that the system is not of production quality. I can't really say much > about > that, since I haven't seen the code, but there were resources > available from > the Italians to improve the system and to help with setting it up for > the > Berlin conference. > > The EPS has ended up accepting that the Berlin organizers build their > own > system, but having a system that a new conference organizer can just > start > using is still a strategic goal. > > The final issue is that the Berlin team designed a new conference > logo. At the > same time they decided that they wanted to market the conference as > EP14. > This is not acceptable to the EPS. We feel that it is important that > EuroPython is called EuroPython. We have accepted the logo under the > condition > that EuroPython is spelled out underneath it, wherever it is used. We > have > also required that URLs, Email addresses and other communication > channels use > the EUroPython name and not ep14. This has met severe and (in my > opinion) pig- > headed resistance from some of the local organizers. > > Having worked with past organizers, I know that every one of them > would have > quickly and fully complied with our request. > > --- > > The first two points I have mentioned have been resolved with the > local > organization, but the outcome is not what the EPS would like it to be. > The > third issue seems to be mostly sorted out, though there may still be > some > holdover left. > > This means that there is a working collaboration between the EPS and > the local > organizers, though there are still points of friction. I hope the > collaboration climate can be improved and I am sure that the local > organizers > are working on it. The EPS board certainly is. > > I think much of the controversy could have been avoided if we had had > direct > communications with more people on the ground in Berlin before the > preparations for the conference started. > > The announcement of a CfP for 2015 should be seen in this light. There > are a > couple of important goals for the EPS that can be better fulfilled by > putting > out a CfP, based on the things we have learned from the previous > process. The > winning bid may still come from Berlin, but this time with a clearer > understanding of expectations. > > Now, the EuroPython Society is an open membership organization. If you > think > the board is mishandling or misjudging the situation, you are free to > join and > change the way the society operates. > > Jacob Hall?n > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 Berlin, 21th27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From lists at zopyx.com Fri Jan 31 20:53:34 2014 From: lists at zopyx.com (Andreas Jung) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 20:53:34 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started In-Reply-To: <52EBF3C8.8000309@zopyx.com> References: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> <52EBF3C8.8000309@zopyx.com> Message-ID: <9AF2ED68-FD6F-4FE9-8169-3B472D7964C2@zopyx.com> I have to correct the 2013 prices: 165/315/370. Still the prices of the EP 2014 are in a range that make this conference affordable and reasonably priced. Comparable conferences - often run only for two or three day - are more expensive. Regards Andreas Jung ----- Sorry for being brief - sent from a mobile device. > Am 31.01.2014 um 20:04 schrieb Andreas Jung : > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Jacob Hall?n wrote: > >> >> In the Call for Participation that was the basis for the selection of >> a new site for Europython, there was a requirement for the cost of >> attendance. It turns out that the promised figures from the Berlin >> team can't be met and that cost of attendance will take a serious >> jump, compared to Florence. >> >> This is a serious problem for the EPS, because our explicit goal is >> to arrange a really affordable conference. We are now looking at >> conference fees that are 5 times higher than the ones for G?teborg >> and it is starting to hurt. Worries about getting enough participants >> and getting a reasonable mix of people has gotten the EPS board more >> involved in pricing issues than they would like to be. This is not >> only a concern for the conference this year, but for future >> conferences. A large number of the attendees have come to EuroPython >> for many years. If they are scared off by the price this year, they >> are less likely to come back in the future. > > With respect but this is FUD. > > The standard ticket price for EP 2013 were for Student/Individual/Business: > 330 ? / 500 ? / 620 ? > > The standard EP 2014 rates are for Student/Individual/Business: > > 200 ? / 400 ? / 600 ? > > Keep in mind that all EP 2014 tickets are all-inclusive (social event, > catering during the sprints etc.) > > Andreas > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJS6/PIAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjLcELwM0a9Fe4fLkA+mULWdLfKvP9 > HHHLVH99/hs/Pe4ZHAmcUF2rc6T3lyLdAC/XK3EzTl+ppEGdbXlab+oPrN6VfjHv > GnUVvt7TKYfCI4cw9FkgqF1wXrqdcRVT0MXu1fecKUxKst+zQ54XaI+wY8MGhDww > dC1KA5YTYZODSO3l+WFxpMblxSTeyegutSaPV7XdoxxSq5bhLhnEEj6Ev9uAxql9 > Dg87vOpTWe6DU/g/0A3tsaJCduwvOVwYyHBPBPuOYts7zYrVv0QYDdNXi7Jw8Gl4 > HVFd2Xb4IBPWYpeUmL1QeFj+o652aE0kIpNAIxHVi856HhyCKwBGqzpqRo/5YOcI > C9K6kg6kacINgiwsNSulm2sa0JLM/AsiWMd5ZFgqnaJAi3mpRcaN+dZ00zMPuvax > Bhmv3ea1FJubFfu9XQWYJug4R7yEs8zwd9IDikSaQb94v68rDqZ+61SZ2W+Mk+eQ > V+P0egepnsnqRp9dnuRAFN9J7gySQmA= > =yuc7 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > _______________________________________________ > EuroPython 2014 ? Berlin, 21th?27th July > EuroPython mailing list > EuroPython at python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/europython From paul at boddie.org.uk Fri Jan 31 23:23:39 2014 From: paul at boddie.org.uk (Paul Boddie) Date: Fri, 31 Jan 2014 23:23:39 +0100 Subject: [EuroPython] Pricing (was Re: Work on Call for Participation for EuroPython 2015 has started) In-Reply-To: <9AF2ED68-FD6F-4FE9-8169-3B472D7964C2@zopyx.com> References: <3482344.NNzFdStJc6@sangiovese> <52EBF3C8.8000309@zopyx.com> <9AF2ED68-FD6F-4FE9-8169-3B472D7964C2@zopyx.com> Message-ID: <201401312323.40230.paul@boddie.org.uk> On Friday 31. January 2014 20.53.34 Andreas Jung wrote: > I have to correct the 2013 prices: 165/315/370. > > Still the prices of the EP 2014 are in a range that make this conference > affordable and reasonably priced. Comparable conferences - often run only > for two or three day - are more expensive. It's worth dipping into the historical record for price information. Here's something I dug up: https://wiki.python.org/moin/EuroPython/2007/FeeStructureAttendees Obviously, back then there was no distinction between individual and business rates at EuroPython. I see that PyCon this year is ~95/260/445 for the regular rates, and I think that apart from those choosing the corporate rate, the prices have remained fairly stable for the established conferences, considering things like inflation, longer conferences, more included stuff, and so on. Back in 2007, the exceptional conference was RuPy which offered incredibly cheap rates for students, and I think we were all aware that EuroPython was going to look expensive in comparison and might end up being too expensive for the regional audience, particularly students, but there was no chance that EuroPython could discount rates aggressively to "compete" with RuPy. And of course, no-one was really competing with anyone else, anyway. Paul