[group-organizers] Group-Organizers Digest, Vol 35, Issue 1
Clayton Parker
clayton at sixfeetup.com
Tue Sep 18 16:02:40 CEST 2012
On Sep 17, 2012, at 6:13 AM, Kevin Shockey wrote:
> I'm laying down the ground work for the first Python user group in Puerto
> Rico. According to the PSF Wiki, the preferred name is Python Interest
> Group, PIG or PIGgies. So I abbreviated the new user group prPIG. We eat
> a lot of pork here and it is the most popular main course during Christmas,
> so I thought it fit pretty well. Any opinions?
There are a lot of uses of 'py' also. ChiPy and IndyPy for example. You can
check the wiki to see what others have done:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/LocalUserGroups
I would say that it helps if the name is easy to say and memorable.
This will help when you are working on promoting the group.
Clayton
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>
> On Sun, Sep 16, 2012 at 1:17 AM, <group-organizers-request at python.org>wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. python user group name (Jonas Geiregat)
>> 2. Re: python user group name (Andrew Schoen)
>> 3. Re: python user group name (Brandon Rhodes)
>> 4. Re: python user group name (Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 00:08:19 +0200
>> From: Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org>
>> To: group-organizers at python.org
>> Subject: [group-organizers] python user group name
>> Message-ID: <3AF25C38-0E47-4127-AFC1-6A9F26BD0244 at geiregat.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> We're starting up a new user group for Python user in Belgium.
>>
>> I've tweeted some weeks ago about this idea and got some responses. We
>> started to think publicly (that is on twitter) about this idea.
>>
>> The first thing we wanted to have was a name to identify ourselves with.
>> One of the people who was active in this conversation came up with pyBug
>> (Python Belgian User Group).
>>
>> He also suggested to move the conversation to linked in, since there
>> already was an "active" thread for Belgium Python users. So we did that.
>>
>> We argued about the name and the first steps etc ..
>>
>> This week I decided that pybug would be the name, since only once person
>> didn't like the name and no-one else said anything about it.
>>
>> So registered pybug.be and paid for it with my own money. Next thing I
>> posted this in the thread. Shortly after that some people, but mainly one
>> started to argue that he didn't like the name and he wanted to call out a
>> poll.
>>
>> So we did that, and pybug came out as a winner. Lucky for me because I
>> already paid for the domain.
>>
>> Then again some people started complaining that they didn't had a change
>> to vote, mainly because they weren't actively watching the thread.
>>
>> At this point I started to get irritated, but because I don't want to push
>> myself forward as any kind of leader or dictator I said ok, let's have
>> another poll.
>>
>> This poll still running but it seems the name will be pythonbelgium. For
>> the arguments that it is the most pythonic name. Also other people started
>> joining the conversation (which is a good and wonderful thing)
>>
>> I dislike the name and I dislike the whole fact there's been so much
>> argument about a name.
>>
>> So I really don't know what to do here, what are my options?
>>
>> Should I stick with the final outcome of the latest poll and pick
>> pythonbelgium as name or would it be wrong to stand up as the one who
>> started this whole thing and say, no.
>>
>> I don't like the name and I've already paid for a domain, I'm sorry but we
>> can't poll forever just because other people start to join the
>> conversation. Would this be considered as wrong ?
>>
>>
>> Yours sincerely,
>>
>> Jonas Geiregat.
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 17:38:53 -0500
>> From: Andrew Schoen <andrew.schoen at gmail.com>
>> To: Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org>, group-organizers at python.org
>> Subject: Re: [group-organizers] python user group name
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAGAp9=
>> Mtto0ysMbia5s1eHcvOY1wpkzQdyaftmCBWwP38cVyMg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I dislike the name and I dislike the whole fact there's been so much
>>> argument about a name.
>>>
>>
>> I think a user groups name is quite important and deserving of discussion.
>> I prefer pythonbelgium because it's more descriptive of the what the group
>> is actually about, which makes it easier to find for newcomers to python.
>> Which IMHO is a very important role for a user group. While pybug is a
>> bit ambiguous.
>>
>> My local group went with PythonKC and PyKC, with that being one of the main
>> reasons.
>>
>> Andrew Schoen
>>
>>
>>>
>>> So I really don't know what to do here, what are my options?
>>>
>>> Should I stick with the final outcome of the latest poll and pick
>>> pythonbelgium as name or would it be wrong to stand up as the one who
>>> started this whole thing and say, no.
>>>
>>> I don't like the name and I've already paid for a domain, I'm sorry but
>> we
>>> can't poll forever just because other people start to join the
>>> conversation. Would this be considered as wrong ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>
>>> Jonas Geiregat.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Group-Organizers mailing list
>>> Group-Organizers at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/group-organizers
>>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 19:14:09 -0400
>> From: Brandon Rhodes <brandon at rhodesmill.org>
>> To: Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org>
>> Cc: group-organizers at python.org
>> Subject: Re: [group-organizers] python user group name
>> Message-ID: <87haqyswu6.fsf at asaph.rhodesmill.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>>
>> Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org> writes:
>>
>>> We're starting up a new user group for Python user in Belgium.
>>
>> CONGRATULATIONS!
>>
>> This is a wonderful step, and I hope that your rough start will not
>> prevent this group from being a wonderful resource both for programmers
>> in Belgium, and also for those who are not yet programmers but who might
>> some day want to learn.
>>
>> (Also, I should say: your country has nice beer. It's my favorite.)
>>
>>> The first thing we wanted to have was a name to identify ourselves
>>> with. ... At this point I started to get irritated, but because I
>>> don't want to push myself forward as any kind of leader or dictator I
>>> said ok, let's have another poll.
>>
>> My experience with Python Atlanta, which I led for several years until
>> moving away last December, was that user groups actually *need* leaders
>> who step "forward." There are simply too many small decisions to be
>> made for every one to be voted on, and too many programmers who seem
>> psychologically predisposed to become angry and intransigent every time
>> a debate is opened to which they are eligible to contribute.
>>
>> Let me contrast a "dictator" with another figure: the "host" of a party
>> or event.
>>
>> You should think of a "dictator" as someone who exercises control that
>> people cannot escape. I would say that a "dictator" makes decisions
>> that people MUST follow, because those people have been maneuvered into
>> showing up for something that they then CANNOT escape - either because
>> they are physically imprisoned, or because their emotional investment is
>> too high for them to leave. A dictator would take a programming meeting
>> that was supposed to be about one topic, and suddenly ruin it and make
>> everyone spend all the time on another topic in which no one but the
>> dictator was interested. A dictator would let someone invest hundreds
>> of hours in the users group, only to then throw away their work because
>> of a flippant decision to do something different.
>>
>> A "host" may superficially look like a dictator, since the host of a
>> gathering or party will often have to make many decisions, alone, simply
>> so that the party can happen: perhaps choosing the name, or perhaps the
>> venue, or maybe deciding which of several speakers get scheduled this
>> month. But the host is very different:
>>
>> * A "host" is satisfied with their small domain of control - the little
>> event that they are managing and to which they are trying to welcome
>> others - so the host does not attempt hostile takeovers of other
>> activities if people are doing them well.
>>
>> * A "host" is up-front about all of their decisions, and never
>> manipulates people by needlessly changing things at the last minute,
>> or misrepresenting the kind of gathering that they are running. They
>> say, "Thanks for your input, everyone - HERE is where we are meeting
>> this month, but please continue to let me know about your ideas."
>>
>> * A "host" does lots of listening, and then tries to make the decision
>> that will let the host's event be of the greatest benefit possible.
>> Sometimes the host really does not know what to choose, and can put
>> things up to a vote. Sometimes the host knows that they lack
>> expertise, and lets, say, the JavaScript people in the group choose
>> the speaker who comes during "JavaScript Month." But the host has to
>> remember how many quiet people, who never post on the mailing list,
>> will un-subscribe and leave forever if the mailing list - that they
>> had hoped would teach them about Python, and help them know what
>> speakers are coming next month - becomes a loud and upsetting forum
>> where a few loud people keep debating things without end.
>>
>> * I found that it was almost always better to delegate ("Doug tells me
>> that the meeting location is difficult for many people to reach, so
>> for July he is going to choose another meeting location for us that
>> we're going to try out for one month!") instead of asking for a vote.
>> Voting is a very poor way of making decisions, and is generally
>> appropriate only for situations where a group of people are going to
>> be FORCED to abide by a decision (maybe they live in a country and the
>> country needs laws that are binding on everyone), and so they all need
>> a say in that decision. But in general it brings out the worst in
>> people: they become trivial, argumentative, insulting towards one
>> another, and typically a very few people invest a crazy amount of
>> energy - and might be the only ones who vote - while everyone else
>> becomes upset and then sad.
>>
>> Think of yourself as the host of a party: you want people to be happy,
>> you want people to be helping you put up decorations and giving talks
>> and helping you find good places to meet. But all of those people are
>> busy and need someone who can listen to everyone then say, "This month
>> we are going to try THIS," so that people can put their energy towards
>> something productive - making "THIS" as awesome as it can be this month
>> - instead of putting energy towards endless debates that, by their very
>> structure, mean that a large number of people are going to lose when
>> each debate concludes.
>>
>> (As an aside: LinkedIn groups in Atlanta tended to be full of people who
>> wanted to look important and argue, because, well, if they had useful
>> jobs and lots of friends, they wouldn't be sitting around on LinkedIn
>> trying to look big and important! So I hope you can soon move to a more
>> open forum like a Google Group, where you won't have to cater to the
>> people who happen to be maintaining profiles on LinkedIn.)
>>
>>> ... This poll still running but it seems the name will be
>>> pythonbelgium.
>>
>> This is a difficult situation.
>>
>> It would, I believe, have been within your rights to simply name the
>> group "pyBug" to begin with. Or to have stopped with the first poll and
>> said "The name is PyBug, it's time to move forward and start actually
>> meeting!"
>>
>> But since you let the second poll start, it seems to be that you should
>> abide by its results - otherwise, you have done one of the things
>> "dictators" do: you have invited people to invest time and effort into
>> something (the second poll), then thrown it away.
>>
>> If I were you, I would register the second name and consider the money
>> you spent to be the price of an important lesson: the lesson of what can
>> happen when you have the time and energy to try hosting something, then
>> decide to let other people - who are not stepping forward like you are -
>> to debate endlessly about things like names. Compared to what other
>> people sometimes pay to learn this lesson, you have probably purchased
>> it rather cheaply. :) (Unless you bought the domain for 20 years or
>> something!)
>>
>> Either way, make a decision, thank everyone for participating, and move
>> on towards actual meetings that people will benefit from.
>>
>> Try to be a "host", who listens to ideas, but then takes responsibility
>> for making a decisions about when and where and how the meeting will
>> take place, so that people have something concrete to contribute towards
>> instead of only endless debates that only a few people can win.
>>
>> I will tell two stories from Python Atlanta.
>>
>> First, we used to meet in a big fancy classroom with a built-in
>> projector and stadium seating. The group was VERY quiet, and everyone
>> sat at least two seats apart (Americans are very shy), and most people
>> left after the talks were done without ever having spoken to anyone the
>> whole evening.
>>
>> Then, one month, the big classroom was reserved, so we met at an
>> informal meeting place instead, a few people brought beers, and there
>> were couches and little tables and people had to sit close together.
>> The group - which had ALWAYS been quiet - was so loud that I had to
>> SHOUT to start the meeting! It was wonderful!
>>
>> So, without asking anyone, I canceled our classroom and got us a room at
>> Manuel's Tavern in Atlanta, because that was the kind of group I wanted:
>> a group that had energy, and talked together and made friends, and where
>> a newcomer could come and have met three or four people by the end of
>> the night, instead of only hearing the talks and then slinking out
>> because it was a classroom and no one felt like they could speak.
>>
>> I did not need a poll, or any votes: I knew what kind of meetup I
>> wanted, and I was happy to take responsibility for the decision and
>> explain to people why we were trying out the new meeting place, so that
>> they could tell me later whether they though our meetup could be
>> improved even further.
>>
>> My second story:
>>
>> Someone named JR wanted a different kind of meeting, in addition to our
>> monthly meeting where everyone listened to talks: he wanted people to
>> sit around with laptops, hacking on projects, and having the experienced
>> Python people help the newcomers. So once he had chosen a location and
>> a night, I happily advertised it on the meetup group, and mentioned it
>> at every meeting. Only a few people came at first, but he kept doing it
>> every two weeks, and after a while he had a regular group coming. I let
>> him be the "host", and make all of the decisions, for those other
>> meetings - I was delegating, you see - while I kept making decisions
>> only for the main meeting. That way, each meeting had a clear mission,
>> and focus, and people knew who to go ask if they had an idea about how
>> one of the meetings could be better.
>>
>> And, delegating the other meetings to JR prevented me from getting
>> stretched too thin, and it - I hope - prevented Python Atlanta from
>> becoming the "Brandon Show" where everything would have had to be about
>> me.
>>
>> I hope that you will be happy, even with a group named "pythonbelgium",
>> and that your group becomes a strong and happy place where, because you
>> or other organizers make a few decisions to get things going, everyone
>> else is able to contribute talks and thoughts and ideas and programming
>> classes, until you are a large and powerful force for education and
>> camaraderie among your nation's programmers. Good luck!
>>
>> (And now we get to hear about what the other organizers think of my
>> crazy advice!)
>>
>> --
>> Brandon Rhodes brandon at rhodesmill.org
>> http://rhodesmill.org/brandon
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 00:16:57 -0500
>> From: "Jeff Hinrichs - DM&T" <jeffh at dundeemt.com>
>> To: Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org>
>> Cc: group-organizers at python.org
>> Subject: Re: [group-organizers] python user group name
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CALHZEO_EmP89ZYxiLRhmCgG8x2mzgKLN0KOxYyCEbX7wpVFx_A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Jonas Geiregat <jonas at geiregat.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> We're starting up a new user group for Python user in Belgium.
>>>
>>> I've tweeted some weeks ago about this idea and got some responses. We
>>> started to think publicly (that is on twitter) about this idea.
>>>
>>> The first thing we wanted to have was a name to identify ourselves with.
>>> One of the people who was active in this conversation came up with pyBug
>>> (Python Belgian User Group).
>>>
>>> He also suggested to move the conversation to linked in, since there
>>> already was an "active" thread for Belgium Python users. So we did that.
>>>
>>> We argued about the name and the first steps etc ..
>>>
>>> This week I decided that pybug would be the name, since only once person
>>> didn't like the name and no-one else said anything about it.
>>>
>>> So registered pybug.be and paid for it with my own money. Next thing I
>>> posted this in the thread. Shortly after that some people, but mainly one
>>> started to argue that he didn't like the name and he wanted to call out a
>>> poll.
>>>
>>> So we did that, and pybug came out as a winner. Lucky for me because I
>>> already paid for the domain.
>>>
>>> Then again some people started complaining that they didn't had a change
>>> to vote, mainly because they weren't actively watching the thread.
>>>
>>> At this point I started to get irritated, but because I don't want to
>> push
>>> myself forward as any kind of leader or dictator I said ok, let's have
>>> another poll.
>>>
>>> This poll still running but it seems the name will be pythonbelgium. For
>>> the arguments that it is the most pythonic name. Also other people
>> started
>>> joining the conversation (which is a good and wonderful thing)
>>>
>>> I dislike the name and I dislike the whole fact there's been so much
>>> argument about a name.
>>>
>>> So I really don't know what to do here, what are my options?
>>>
>>> Should I stick with the final outcome of the latest poll and pick
>>> pythonbelgium as name or would it be wrong to stand up as the one who
>>> started this whole thing and say, no.
>>>
>>> I don't like the name and I've already paid for a domain, I'm sorry but
>> we
>>> can't poll forever just because other people start to join the
>>> conversation. Would this be considered as wrong ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Yours sincerely,
>>>
>>> Jonas Geiregat.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Group-Organizers mailing list
>>> Group-Organizers at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/group-organizers
>>>
>>
>> Welcome to the often colorful world of users groups! You have encountered
>> your first "Bike Shed" discussion. see
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkinson's_Law_of_Triviality for details.
>>
>> As first mover, the decision is yours -- just know that there is always
>> some dissent. When we started I initially thought of going with OmaPy but
>> was warned off because in Dutch it meant some thing else. We ended up
>> going with OmahaPython (not pep8 friendly :)
>>
>> When it comes down to it, just getting the ball rolling is the hard part.
>> Congratulations on that! Encourage the dissenters to put on a
>> presentation at your next meeting!
>>
>>
>> --
>> Best,
>>
>> Jeff Hinrichs
>> 402.218.1473
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of Group-Organizers Digest, Vol 35, Issue 1
>> ***********************************************
>>
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