Fwd: Re: [Tutor] Re: [Edu-sig] RE: [Idle-dev] IDLE's save-before-run r equirement

[stephen]

Ok, as mentioned in my last message, here are the idle-dev related parts of 
my original message to Guido on revitalising IDLE; for historical 
edification. 

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
Subject: Re: [Tutor] Re: [Edu-sig] RE: [Idle-dev] IDLE's save-before-run r 
equirement
Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2001 02:16:18 +1000
From: stephen <elguavas@users.sourceforge.net>
To: Guido van Rossum <guido@digicool.com>

On Fri, 22 Jun 2001 12:48am, you wrote:
> Thanks for your long and well-reasoned reply.
> Do you mind if I resend that to the idle-sig?
>> > I just did that, moments after I accidentally sent it only to you... 8-\
>
> Noticed.
>
> > Actually, I have a proposal for you on the future of IDLE, which I'd like
> > to run by you.
>
> Sure!

Great. I've actually been thinking quite a lot about this.
[...]
In any case, I'd better _try_ and be brief so here are a few of my ideas 
about IDLE in  disorganised, after 1am, point(ish) form:

1. IDLE needs a benevolent dictator (and I think it should be you :).
I've been involved in other open source projects with pretty open cvs and
an insane level of 'democracy'. Those projects were washouts that ended
up getting nowherere by not getting everywhere. Sure people need to be able to
have a say. But we need a clear statement of what IDLE is and will remain
that any contributors can work to. I'd like to see that 'mission statement'
being something that includes things along the lines of the points I was
trying to make in my pervious message to the list, and that have since been 
stated more clearly by many others, about IDLE staying on track. Of course 
this needs to be flexible enough to allow growth.

2. You are obviously way to busy to be a fully hands on leader of a
revitalised IDLE project, so you need a 'coordinator', that is
someone to isolate you from a lot of stuff so your input can be on the
important issues plus whatever else you feel like and have the time for
lending your hand to. But I think it would be important for you to retain
final power of veto, or 'weight of opinnion' if you prefer, over changes and
the direction of the project just like you do over the rest of python.

I think you'd like to retain your influence over IDLE, and I think it would 
be best if you did. I'm sure it's only as neat as it is now because you've 
been caring for it. ;-)

Anyway, I have the inclination, and I'd like to make the time available to
take on this job. All I have to offer are modest python and tkinter 
experience,  and some ability to write documentation (which I've done before),
a generally reasonable temper, and some enthusiasm for the task. Of course I 
don't expect anything to happen because of this, I'm just offering.

3. Some of the things I would propose doing:

Revitalise the hosting of the IDLE development project; site it somewhere 
(where it already is?), have the code in cvs with only limited committers: 
any code donations accepted of course but by patch, to be assessed and merged 
if appropriate by those who can commit. Checkouts carte blanche, snapshots as 
appropriate. More stuff on the website, including the mission statement and a 
faq with info for those who want to submit patches or help out in other ways. 
etc. Look into merging what is decided upon from the Vpython and the exiting 
fork project at sourceforge.

The things I'd like to work on personally (at least some of):
1. coordination and filtering stuff for you attention as required (up to your
time available, etc.).
2. coding
- a) making the inteface nicer in terms of gui configurability for fonts,
colours, recent files list, etc. etc. (iI like doing this kind of user
friendly stuff )
- b) maybe code template insertion (for language keywords, etc)?? or context 
help lookup (from code in editor) to python documentation for langage element 
and library stuff?
(- ( c) slightly possibly at some stage  looking into completing some half 
baked early stage work on a simple python coded tkinter gui - builder I 
started once, as an optional add on) ??)
3. writing a new section of standard python documentation on IDLE, to make
IDLE really a noticed part of python and for use as the IDLE help also.
4. canvassing edu-sig guys for input into how to make IDLE better for helping
python learners.

Hmm, that already seems like a lot... and I'm sure there were other ideas 
that I'm not thinking of right now. 8-\

Anyway, sorry to take up so much of your time with all this. Let me know what 
you think about any of these ideas. I'm offering the time and energy for any 
of this that you think is worthwhile (maybe none! :), I'll certainly give a 
try if it would be any use.

BTW, what I notice appearing on the idle-dev list about it really being
'compatability'  problem between various ide's can of course all be 
solved by a combination of configurability in IDLE and enabling some 
behaviours by command line switches etc., of desired. No need to throw out 
all the good work in IDLE to help with the kinds of issues mentionned here.

Anyway the major points of my proposal are: steady as she goes, and, to keep
your hand on the reins, while freeing it as much as you need.

Regards,
Stephen.
ps. apologies for tired typos and spelling.
--
<elguavas@users.sourceforge.net>
More power to those who don't care for it.

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Stephen M. Gava
<elguavas@users.sourceforge.net>
"More power to those who don't care for it." - anon