[Idle-dev] I18N prep work - convert strings to use format()

[Guido van Rossum]

I think the string.Template facility was designed with i18n in mind:
https://docs.python.org/3/library/string.html?highlight=string.template#string.Template
(or the PY2 equivalent).

On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 4:46 PM, Al Sweigart <al at inventwithpython.com>
wrote:

> Just for some clarifications, the conversion to .format() would not do
> the I18N translation itself. It's simply to set up the underlying
> strings in a way that makes it possible for the translated strings to
> have the interpolated parts in a different order. The actual
> translation stuff will be handled by the gettext module in the
> standard way. The translator does not have to be a software developer
> and won't see the .format() code (or any code) at all.
>
> Aside: The gettext module adds a _() function to the global namespace,
> so instead of print('Hello world') you would change the source code to
> print(_('Hello world')) and gettext has _() return the appropriate
> string for the language setting. The only thing the translator sees in
> their software tools is 'Hello world'.
>
> I admit this is a low priority and doesn't produce immediate benefit,
> but it's a task that I'm willing to take on myself to do the work for.
> After which, I'll continue the bug 17776 work. IDLE I18N is my
> personal objective, and I don't want to burden or task others with it
> any more than necessary.
>
> I agree that what should be translated are the user-facing UI messages
> (menus, config, etc). Error messages are low priority. But it's easier
> to get the strings set up correctly the first time so translators
> don't have to repeat work.
>
> On Thu, Jan 22, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Terry Reedy <tjreedy at udel.edu> wrote:
> > On 1/21/2015 10:51 AM, Tal Einat wrote:
> >>
> >> On Wed, Jan 21, 2015 at 10:03 AM, Al Sweigart <al at inventwithpython.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to change the old-style string formatting from '%s %s' %
> >>> (foo, bar) to the format() string method version. This is not just a
> >>> cosmetic change, but would be part of the prep work for I18N support
> >>> for IDLE.
> >
> >
> > Since I currently regard internationalizaiton as pie in the sky, I would
> > tend to see such changes as cosmetic.  If I were editing format strings
> > anyway, I might then make the change simply because I prefer it.
> >
> >>> For some languages, the order that variables would need to be
> >>> interpolated into strings would not be the same. For example, in
> >>> English you could have:
> >>>
> >>> color = 'black'
> >>> animal = 'cat'
> >>> "The %s %s's toy." % (color, animal)
> >>>
> >>> While in Spanish, this would be:
> >>>
> >>> color = 'negro'
> >>> animal = 'gato'
> >>> "El juguete del %s %s." % (animal, color)
> >
> >
> > This can also be done with % formats.
> >
> >>>> "The %(color)s %(anim)s's toy." % {'color': 'black', 'anim': 'cat'}
> > "The black cat's toy."
> >>>> "El juguete del %(anim)s %(color)s." % {'color': 'negro', 'anim':
> >>>> 'gato'}
> > 'El juguete del gato negro.'
> >
> > That said, I prefer .format, and also note that the Idle replacement
> strings
> > (as opposed to the format), should not need translation.
> >
> >>> However, this defeats translating the "The %s %s's toy." string for
> >>> I18N. Using the format() string method fixes this: "The {color}
> >>> {animal}'s toy." could be translated as "El juguete del {animal}
> >>> {color}."
> >>>
> >>> I'd like to go through the strings in IDLE and convert them to use
> >>> format(). This wouldn't be all of the strings: only those that are
> >>> user-facing and have multiple %s (or other) conversion specifiers
> >>> would need to be translated.
> >
> >
> > The only examples I can think of where this applies are warning messages
> > such as
> >
> >     warning = ('\n Warning: configHandler.py - IdleConf.GetOption -\n'
> >                ' invalid %r value for configuration option %r\n'
> >                ' from section %r: %r' %
> >                 (type, option, section,
> >                 self.userCfg[configType].Get(section, option,
> >                               raw=raw)))
> >
> > If Il8n did happen, these would be a low priority, as Il8n advocates have
> > said menu first, then configuration dialogs next.  Unlike exception
> > messages, which would not be translated, such messages should hopefully
> > never be seen, and in a classroom, an instructor would need to interpret
> it
> > anyway as to what to do.
> >
> > When I work on confighandler (which definitely needs work) and review its
> > warning messages, I should like to revise this one (and others like it)
> to
> > specify the file with the problem, so one would know where to make a fix.
> > For this one, the file depends on the user config directory and the
> config
> > type.  (Telling users where the message comes from is pretty useless.)  I
> > might rewrite as
> >
> > warning = ("Config Warning: user configuration file {fname},"
> >            "section [{sname}], option {oname} must be type {tname}.  "
> >            "Entry {uval} is not valid; using backup value instead."
> >             .format(fname=<whatever>, sname=section, oname=option,
> >              tname=type, uval=...))
> >
> >>> This is a change that touches on a lot of files, so I wanted to see if
> >>> anyone could foresee issues with this change before I start on it.
> >
> >
> > Not useful now in itself.
> >
> >> If i18n is your goal, are you sure that string.format() is the way to
> go?
> >
> >
> > Either kind of format can be translated if one uses field names. If one
> > replaces by position, .format is better since one can switch from '{0}
> {1}'
> > to '{1} {0}' without changing the .format call.  With 4 or 5 fields, as
> in
> > the real example above, I like field names.  For code that should never
> be
> > run, the run time cost is irrelevant.
> >
> > --
> > Terry Jan Reedy
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IDLE-dev mailing list
> > IDLE-dev at python.org
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
> _______________________________________________
> IDLE-dev mailing list
> IDLE-dev at python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/idle-dev
>



-- 
--Guido van Rossum (python.org/~guido)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/idle-dev/attachments/20150121/1be6145b/attachment-0001.html>