[IPython-dev] Twisted 8...
barrywark at gmail.com
Tue Apr 1 22:55:07 EDT 2008
Same on OS X. Installation is easy (via setuptools or distutils). If I
find time in the next day or two, I'll make a twisted8 branch of
ipython1-dev and will try to get things working. Brian, shoot me a
note if you're going to do the same; I'm sure your efforts will be
more efficient than mine.
On Tue, Apr 1, 2008 at 7:11 PM, Glenn H Tarbox, PhD <glenn at tarbox.org> wrote:
> I don't fully understand all the issues with setuptools and the variants
> other than there is a substantial debate. I've seen threads and IRC
> traffic on this on the twisted channels and elsewhere so I know there
> are issues.
> However, I've been running trunk Twisted for a while... 8.0 did bring a
> number of fixes but the rather dramatic jump in numbering is almost
> entirely about changing the version numbering scheme itself (the 8 is
> for 2008), not a rearchitecture.
> By the time code makes it to the trunk on Twisted, its pretty solid.
> I've had no trouble and given the number of tests and buildbots (I host
> 4), I'd be surprised if we found significant issues.
> On linux the installation is trivial and solid... can't speak to the
> other platforms.
> On Wed, 2008-04-02 at 01:26 +0200, Gael Varoquaux wrote:
> > On Tue, Apr 01, 2008 at 04:11:52PM -0700, Barry Wark wrote:
> > > Just to play devil's advocate, it's not our fault that linux distros
> > > lag behind in their packaged version of Twisted ;)
> > How old is the twisted 8.0 release? I have the feeling it is only a
> > couple of weeks old. In this case you can't call not packaging in a
> > stable release lagging behind, but simply normal procedure of validating
> > before shipping. Do you run mission-critical servers? Do you know what it
> > means to have a lab stopped from working if their is a flaw on the
> > packages you supported on one of your servers. I can tell you, it feels
> > very bad. So supporting leading edge is great when you are dealing with
> > your own box, and you are a devlopper happy to play around, but elsewhere
> > more conservative decisions can also make sense.
> > > On the more practical side, why not use Python's pacakge system (i.e.
> > > setuptools) to install Twisted (I'd guess that all linux distros that
> > > would include ipython would also have setuptools packages)?
> > Because it s not Python's package system. It is a hack to work around the
> > fact that Python has no package system. It induces a crazy amount of side
> > effect and misbehaviors. Don't get me wrong, I use setuptools a lot, and
> > appreciate the fonctionnality they add, but I can hardly see them as a
> > robust solution for packaging. It is funny you should mention them, AFAIK
> > until this (leading edge) release, twisted itself could not be installed
> > using setuptools.
> > I am not sure if you have followed, but currently setuptools are a
> > burning subject. IMHO Python packaging is a burning subject, and I am
> > tired of loosing a ridiculous amount of time to deal with different
> > version of libraries. I am afraid there is no good solution. Provide
> > several almost good solutions is a good idea, and setuptools do figure
> > amongst these, but I must admit I wouldn't force people to rely on
> > setuptools. I bites back.
> > > using a setuptools-compatible Twisted might allow the ipython1
> > > installer to install (maybe even precompiled) Twisted eggs if Twisted
> > > isn't present. Just a thought.
> > This kind of reasonning has brought setuptools to what it is currently:
> > something very problematic on secure and high-reliability servers. Indeed
> > you seem to be suggesting that the installer will be doing some magic to
> > download the requirements if they are not their. Think about it, this is
> > both a unacceptable security hole, and something that forbids any kind of
> > alternate packaging (for instance for automated deployement on a
> > cluster).
> > I am just trying to warn people that setuptools is a neat toy, but not a
> > solution for everybody. I use it a lot on my development boxes, but never
> > on my servers.
> > My 2 cents,
> > Gaël
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> Glenn H. Tarbox, PhD | Don't worry about people stealing your ideas. If your ideas
> 206-494-0819 | are any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats
> glenn at tarbox.org (gtalk) + ghtdak on aim/freenode | ^ Howard Aiken, IBM engineer
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