From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 05:26:54 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 10:26:54 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 June 2011 04:33, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> * Moving away from ipython.scipy.org to simply ipython.org
>

This makes sense. I understand we can easily create a CNAME if we're hosting
the site using Github pages.


> * Using sphinx for the entire site as matplotlib does.
>

This I'm less sure about. Sphinx is great for documentation, but I don't
think it works so well for a whole website:

* The layout is really geared towards writing documentation.
* With so many projects now using Sphinx for docs, people instantly
recognise the layout and think 'docs'. Whenever I go to matplotlib's
website, I have this feeling that I've missed the homepage somewhere and
skipped straight to the docs.
* We'll want to update parts of the website fairly often. If every small
change requires the site to be checked out as source, rebuilt by Sphinx
(with all its dependencies) and reuploaded, the site's just going to get out
of date.


> * Moving the wiki stuff over to github.
>

Again, this makes sense. I take it we're talking about turning on the wiki
feature in Github, rather than just moving the content into github pages?

I think the key thing is to work out how we want to divide content between:
- Documentation
- A wiki
- A landing page (or a small collection of pages)

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 05:31:26 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 10:31:26 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] %edit magic in new frontends
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinZZfUQbP==w2J-fWS1aWzM1t1m4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=nLzrbQvCUCGcv6HOANJpjBRqY3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB1q+UWY4Ask87jjC+oDBbBToaTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinZZfUQbP==w2J-fWS1aWzM1t1m4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik7zinRmQru+JyAvAkgMDdXpwO7rw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 June 2011 04:37, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> * I vote that the -x flag be removed completely.  Edit should just edit.


This is already done in code - the -x flag isn't accepted when calling %edit
in a ZMQ shell. It just hasn't been removed from the docstring yet.

Or do you mean that the single process terminal frontend shouldn't execute
code after editing?

Thomas
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From harry at resolversystems.com  Wed Jun  1 05:48:48 2011
From: harry at resolversystems.com (Harry Percival)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 10:48:48 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>

Hi all,

we've been lurking on the list for a few weeks.  We hope to have IPython 
support in PythonAnywhere in the next week or two.  If you guys are 
keen, we could probably serve up a "try it now" iframe, with a live 
IPython interpreter for people to use, straight from your site...

Here's a screenshot by way of a teaser.  All nice colours, tab 
completion works...  We'd probably need a couple more experience IPython 
users to beta test though?

more info here: http://www.pythonanywhere.com/

rgds,
Harry

-- 
Harry Percival
Developer
harry at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 3051 2751

PythonAnywhere: a Python console in your browser
<http://pythonanywhere.com/>

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK

On 01/06/2011 10:26, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> On 1 June 2011 04:33, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com 
> <mailto:ellisonbg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     * Moving away from ipython.scipy.org <http://ipython.scipy.org> to
>     simply ipython.org <http://ipython.org>
>
>
> This makes sense. I understand we can easily create a CNAME if we're 
> hosting the site using Github pages.
>
>     * Using sphinx for the entire site as matplotlib does.
>
>
> This I'm less sure about. Sphinx is great for documentation, but I 
> don't think it works so well for a whole website:
>
> * The layout is really geared towards writing documentation.
> * With so many projects now using Sphinx for docs, people instantly 
> recognise the layout and think 'docs'. Whenever I go to matplotlib's 
> website, I have this feeling that I've missed the homepage somewhere 
> and skipped straight to the docs.
> * We'll want to update parts of the website fairly often. If every 
> small change requires the site to be checked out as source, rebuilt by 
> Sphinx (with all its dependencies) and reuploaded, the site's just 
> going to get out of date.
>
>     * Moving the wiki stuff over to github.
>
>
> Again, this makes sense. I take it we're talking about turning on the 
> wiki feature in Github, rather than just moving the content into 
> github pages?
>
> I think the key thing is to work out how we want to divide content 
> between:
> - Documentation
> - A wiki
> - A landing page (or a small collection of pages)
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev

-- 
Harry Percival
Developer
harry at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 3051 2751

Dirigible: a Python cloud spreadsheet
<http://projectdirigible.com/>

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK

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From harry at resolversystems.com  Wed Jun  1 05:56:01 2011
From: harry at resolversystems.com (Harry Percival)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 10:56:01 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
Message-ID: <4DE60CB1.8090306@resolversystems.com>

oops, and here's the screenshot.

On 01/06/2011 10:48, Harry Percival wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> we've been lurking on the list for a few weeks.  We hope to have 
> IPython support in PythonAnywhere in the next week or two.  If you 
> guys are keen, we could probably serve up a "try it now" iframe, with 
> a live IPython interpreter for people to use, straight from your site...
>
> Here's a screenshot by way of a teaser.  All nice colours, tab 
> completion works...  We'd probably need a couple more experience 
> IPython users to beta test though?
>
> more info here: http://www.pythonanywhere.com/
>
> rgds,
> Harry
>
> -- 
> Harry Percival
> Developer
> harry at resolversystems.com
> +44 (0) 20 3051 2751
>
> PythonAnywhere: a Python console in your browser
> <http://pythonanywhere.com/>
>
> 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
> VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
> Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
> Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK
>
> On 01/06/2011 10:26, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
>> On 1 June 2011 04:33, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:ellisonbg at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     * Moving away from ipython.scipy.org <http://ipython.scipy.org>
>>     to simply ipython.org <http://ipython.org>
>>
>>
>> This makes sense. I understand we can easily create a CNAME if we're 
>> hosting the site using Github pages.
>>
>>     * Using sphinx for the entire site as matplotlib does.
>>
>>
>> This I'm less sure about. Sphinx is great for documentation, but I 
>> don't think it works so well for a whole website:
>>
>> * The layout is really geared towards writing documentation.
>> * With so many projects now using Sphinx for docs, people instantly 
>> recognise the layout and think 'docs'. Whenever I go to matplotlib's 
>> website, I have this feeling that I've missed the homepage somewhere 
>> and skipped straight to the docs.
>> * We'll want to update parts of the website fairly often. If every 
>> small change requires the site to be checked out as source, rebuilt 
>> by Sphinx (with all its dependencies) and reuploaded, the site's just 
>> going to get out of date.
>>
>>     * Moving the wiki stuff over to github.
>>
>>
>> Again, this makes sense. I take it we're talking about turning on the 
>> wiki feature in Github, rather than just moving the content into 
>> github pages?
>>
>> I think the key thing is to work out how we want to divide content 
>> between:
>> - Documentation
>> - A wiki
>> - A landing page (or a small collection of pages)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
> -- 
> Harry Percival
> Developer
> harry at resolversystems.com
> +44 (0) 20 3051 2751
>
> Dirigible: a Python cloud spreadsheet
> <http://projectdirigible.com/>
>
> 17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
> VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
> Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
> Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK

-- 
Harry Percival
Developer
harry at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 3051 2751

Dirigible: a Python cloud spreadsheet
<http://projectdirigible.com/>

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK

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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 07:38:05 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 12:38:05 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimYMJ=91Xof9yPZa_7nF3HBqKmg2A@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 June 2011 10:48, Harry Percival <harry at resolversystems.com> wrote:

> we've been lurking on the list for a few weeks.  We hope to have IPython
> support in PythonAnywhere in the next week or two.  If you guys are keen, we
> could probably serve up a "try it now" iframe, with a live IPython
> interpreter for people to use, straight from your site...


Personally, I love the idea of a 'try it now' feature: its hard to give a
good impression of an interactive environment using screenshots.

My main concern would be to what extent it's actually IPython we're demoing.
We don't currently have a web-based console, so I assume you've written a
lot of your own code for the user interaction. On the one hand, we don't
want people getting a poor impression due to the limitations of the web
browser, or due to flaws in code we can't correct (not that I expect your
code to be bad, but all non-trivial software has bugs). On the other hand,
if you've added extra features, we don't want the demo to promise something
we can't deliver on the desktop. In short, if we do this, what we show needs
to be as 'pure IPython' as possible.

Other thoughts:
- Are you basing it on IPython 0.10.x (the current stable version), or 0.11
(the version we'll release soon)?
- I assume your console will run in any modern web browser? It's not going
to display an 'install Silverlight' button, like certain
alternatives<http://www.trypython.org/>,
is it? ;-)
- I'm guessing your parts of the code are proprietary. I don't have a
problem with that, but I honestly don't know whether it could stir up
feelings if we're seen as promoting your business.

I hope more people will chime in on this as it reaches a civilised time in
their own time zones.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From harry at resolversystems.com  Wed Jun  1 08:21:43 2011
From: harry at resolversystems.com (Harry Percival)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 13:21:43 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimYMJ=91Xof9yPZa_7nF3HBqKmg2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
	<BANLkTimYMJ=91Xof9yPZa_7nF3HBqKmg2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE62ED7.1020501@resolversystems.com>

Thanks Thomas, those are all very reasonable concerns.

The beta is still in very early stages, so it may still be a little too 
buggy to be great promotion - in particular, it's rather sluggish at the 
moment, so probably not ready for public consumption.

In terms of displaying "pure" IPython though, I think we should be quite 
close - we haven't really built in any bells and whistles over and above 
what you'd find in a normal local terminal session.

Best thing is probably to take a look for yourselves!  When you sign up, 
you'll get an automated email from us with a few questions.  If you 
mention in your answers that you're on the ipython list, we'll bump you 
up the queue for invites.  It's always good to have demanding users!

rgds,
Harry

On 01/06/2011 12:38, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> On 1 June 2011 10:48, Harry Percival <harry at resolversystems.com 
> <mailto:harry at resolversystems.com>> wrote:
>
>     we've been lurking on the list for a few weeks.  We hope to have
>     IPython support in PythonAnywhere in the next week or two.  If you
>     guys are keen, we could probably serve up a "try it now" iframe,
>     with a live IPython interpreter for people to use, straight from
>     your site...
>
>
> Personally, I love the idea of a 'try it now' feature: its hard to 
> give a good impression of an interactive environment using screenshots.
>
> My main concern would be to what extent it's actually IPython we're 
> demoing. We don't currently have a web-based console, so I assume 
> you've written a lot of your own code for the user interaction. On the 
> one hand, we don't want people getting a poor impression due to the 
> limitations of the web browser, or due to flaws in code we can't 
> correct (not that I expect your code to be bad, but all non-trivial 
> software has bugs). On the other hand, if you've added extra features, 
> we don't want the demo to promise something we can't deliver on the 
> desktop. In short, if we do this, what we show needs to be as 'pure 
> IPython' as possible.
>
> Other thoughts:
> - Are you basing it on IPython 0.10.x (the current stable version), or 
> 0.11 (the version we'll release soon)?
> - I assume your console will run in any modern web browser? It's not 
> going to display an 'install Silverlight' button, like certain 
> alternatives <http://www.trypython.org/>, is it? ;-)
> - I'm guessing your parts of the code are proprietary. I don't have a 
> problem with that, but I honestly don't know whether it could stir up 
> feelings if we're seen as promoting your business.
>
> I hope more people will chime in on this as it reaches a civilised 
> time in their own time zones.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas

-- 
Harry Percival
Developer
harry at resolversystems.com
+44 (0) 20 3051 2751

Dirigible: a Python cloud spreadsheet
<http://projectdirigible.com/>

17a Clerkenwell Road, London EC1M 5RD, UK
VAT No.: GB 893 5643 79
Registered in England and Wales as company number 5467329.
Registered address: 843 Finchley Road, London NW11 8NA, UK

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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 08:59:13 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:59:13 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE62ED7.1020501@resolversystems.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE60B00.7020804@resolversystems.com>
	<BANLkTimYMJ=91Xof9yPZa_7nF3HBqKmg2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE62ED7.1020501@resolversystems.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=RNuOweSyTo6+3xYBkF4xQDZdfHg@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 June 2011 13:21, Harry Percival <harry at resolversystems.com> wrote:

> Best thing is probably to take a look for yourselves!
>

I've now got an invite and had a quick look. It's an interesting approach,
quite different to what we're doing with the new frontends for IPython 0.11.
They are actually emulating a terminal in the browser, to the point that you
can run nano inside it (I'm impressed!). The upside of that is that you get
essentially kosher terminal IPython. The downside is that there is, as Harry
mentioned, a bit of lag. It seems to be sending every keystroke to the
server before displaying it, so there's a noticeable gap between pressing a
key and seeing it appear. I assume they're planning to improve that before
it goes public.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun  1 09:20:56 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:20:56 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim-OChy-V+6A8Bqg6Co_p+PLjDD1A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim-OChy-V+6A8Bqg6Co_p+PLjDD1A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE63CB8.7090108@creativetrax.com>

On 5/31/11 10:07 PM, Brian Granger wrote:
> Jason,
>
> The other thing to consider is that the main frontend that will need
> security is the html notebook.  For that, we do plan on having HTTPS
> enabled by default.


Yes, I agree that's a concern.

Jason



From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun  1 09:40:31 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 08:40:31 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>

On 5/31/11 1:45 PM, MinRK wrote:
> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:13, Jason Grout<jason-sage at creativetrax.com>  wrote:
>> On 5/31/11 12:57 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>
>>> We did briefly have an encrypted socket, but the zeromq community
>>> rightly opposed that rather vehemently, largely because we aren't
>>> security experts, and the illusion of security provided by a poor
>>> implementation is really *less* secure than having no security at all.
>>>
>>> Our answer with IPython is that SSH provides our security.  Typically
>>> the Controller listens on localhost, and the best way to connect to it
>>> from another machine is with an SSH tunnel (IPython does help create
>>> the tunnels) rather than listening on a public port.  We do provide a
>>> small level of additional security by including an authentication key
>>> in all messages that is checked when receiving to determine if the
>>> sender is authorized to make a request.
>>
>> If I understand things correctly, if I have several frontends running code
>> on a single backend server (with multiple kernels---the sage notebook is my
>> usecase), then untrusted code from any of the kernels could connect to and
>> mess with the other sessions, right?  Is it correct to say that any user
>> could connect with any kernel running on the same server?
>
> Oh, you are talking about the *non* parallel kernel.  Yes, that code
> has exactly zero security - anyone with access to the sockets can
> execute arbitrary code.  We really do need to replace
> IPython.zmq.session with the one in the parallel code which does
> include simple key checking, which should be per-kernel (or
> per-cluster in the parallel code).


I think simple key-checking is what I was talking about.  Do you mean 
something equivalent to the Authentication Keys section of the 
multiprocessing module docs [1]?  Basically, I pass in a shared secret 
as an argument when I start the kernel, and then the pyzmq connection is 
authenticated with this secret without transmitting the secret.

Thanks,

Jason

[1] http://docs.python.org/dev/library/multiprocessing#authentication-keys


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 12:41:55 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 09:41:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 06:40, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 5/31/11 1:45 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 11:13, Jason Grout<jason-sage at creativetrax.com>
>> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> On 5/31/11 12:57 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> We did briefly have an encrypted socket, but the zeromq community
>>>> rightly opposed that rather vehemently, largely because we aren't
>>>> security experts, and the illusion of security provided by a poor
>>>> implementation is really *less* secure than having no security at all.
>>>>
>>>> Our answer with IPython is that SSH provides our security. ?Typically
>>>> the Controller listens on localhost, and the best way to connect to it
>>>> from another machine is with an SSH tunnel (IPython does help create
>>>> the tunnels) rather than listening on a public port. ?We do provide a
>>>> small level of additional security by including an authentication key
>>>> in all messages that is checked when receiving to determine if the
>>>> sender is authorized to make a request.
>>>
>>> If I understand things correctly, if I have several frontends running
>>> code
>>> on a single backend server (with multiple kernels---the sage notebook is
>>> my
>>> usecase), then untrusted code from any of the kernels could connect to
>>> and
>>> mess with the other sessions, right? ?Is it correct to say that any user
>>> could connect with any kernel running on the same server?
>>
>> Oh, you are talking about the *non* parallel kernel. ?Yes, that code
>> has exactly zero security - anyone with access to the sockets can
>> execute arbitrary code. ?We really do need to replace
>> IPython.zmq.session with the one in the parallel code which does
>> include simple key checking, which should be per-kernel (or
>> per-cluster in the parallel code).
>
>
> I think simple key-checking is what I was talking about. ?Do you mean
> something equivalent to the Authentication Keys section of the
> multiprocessing module docs [1]? ?Basically, I pass in a shared secret as an
> argument when I start the kernel, and then the pyzmq connection is
> authenticated with this secret without transmitting the secret.

What we have currently is extremely primitive, and only meant to
protect against accidental execution rather than
malicious intrusion. The key is sent and checked with every message.
Handshaking is particularly complicated with zeromq since it's connectionless,
but I think applying it just to the execution socket is doable, though
it's actually impossible on the other sockets as they are.

-MinRK

>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> [1] http://docs.python.org/dev/library/multiprocessing#authentication-keys
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 14:20:30 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:20:30 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> What we have currently is extremely primitive, and only meant to
> protect against accidental execution rather than
> malicious intrusion. The key is sent and checked with every message.

If I understand correctly the link Jason sent, and from a quick
reading of the multiprocessing code, we should be able to use the same
machinery to avoid sending/receving the keys.  The main functions that
do the work in MP are in the 'connection' submodule, and they are
really two standalone functions:

def deliver_challenge(connection, authkey):
    import hmac
    assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
    message = os.urandom(MESSAGE_LENGTH)
    connection.send_bytes(CHALLENGE + message)
    digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
    response = connection.recv_bytes(256)        # reject large message
    if response == digest:
        connection.send_bytes(WELCOME)
    else:
        connection.send_bytes(FAILURE)
        raise AuthenticationError('digest received was wrong')

def answer_challenge(connection, authkey):
    import hmac
    assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
    message = connection.recv_bytes(256)         # reject large message
    assert message[:len(CHALLENGE)] == CHALLENGE, 'message = %r' % message
    message = message[len(CHALLENGE):]
    digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
    connection.send_bytes(digest)
    response = connection.recv_bytes(256)        # reject large message
    if response != WELCOME:
        raise AuthenticationError('digest sent was rejected')


They work with objects that have a basic socket interface, but
adapting this to zmq sockets should be possible.  Am I missing
something?

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 14:33:33 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 11:33:33 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:20, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What we have currently is extremely primitive, and only meant to
>> protect against accidental execution rather than
>> malicious intrusion. The key is sent and checked with every message.
>
> If I understand correctly the link Jason sent, and from a quick
> reading of the multiprocessing code, we should be able to use the same
> machinery to avoid sending/receving the keys. ?The main functions that
> do the work in MP are in the 'connection' submodule, and they are
> really two standalone functions:
>
> def deliver_challenge(connection, authkey):
> ? ?import hmac
> ? ?assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
> ? ?message = os.urandom(MESSAGE_LENGTH)
> ? ?connection.send_bytes(CHALLENGE + message)
> ? ?digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
> ? ?response = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ?# reject large message
> ? ?if response == digest:
> ? ? ? ?connection.send_bytes(WELCOME)
> ? ?else:
> ? ? ? ?connection.send_bytes(FAILURE)
> ? ? ? ?raise AuthenticationError('digest received was wrong')
>
> def answer_challenge(connection, authkey):
> ? ?import hmac
> ? ?assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
> ? ?message = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ? # reject large message
> ? ?assert message[:len(CHALLENGE)] == CHALLENGE, 'message = %r' % message
> ? ?message = message[len(CHALLENGE):]
> ? ?digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
> ? ?connection.send_bytes(digest)
> ? ?response = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ?# reject large message
> ? ?if response != WELCOME:
> ? ? ? ?raise AuthenticationError('digest sent was rejected')
>
>
> They work with objects that have a basic socket interface, but
> adapting this to zmq sockets should be possible. ?Am I missing
> something?

We have 3 main channels:
Shell (XREQ-XREP)
Stdin (XREQ-XREQ) (I think?)
IOPub (PUB-SUB)

Of these, *only* the XREP can authenticate connections.  The reason is
that none of the other sockets actually know where messages came from,
so there's no mechanism for seeing if the sender previously had a
successful handshake because you actually have no idea who the sender
was.

Even the client's XREQ socket cannot authenticate replies, it must
trust that the replies are coming from the kernel.

That said, the only easy one is the one that is the most important -
the Kernel checking requests prior to execution. However, if you have
someone sniffing on the line, it's trivial to spoof an authenticated
socket - just copy the IDENT, which is sent in the clear over the
wire, and the kernel will have exactly no idea that you aren't the
original authenticated client.

ZMQ has no mechanism for dropping connections (because it has no
public notion of connections), so a one-time authenticated connection
essentially turns your one key into a set of keys (the socket
identities), which are still sent over the wire in exactly the same
fashion as the key is now, and just as vulnerable as sending the key
in the clear, except now you have more of them.

-MinRK

>
> Cheers,
>
> f
>


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 16:06:28 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:06:28 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] %edit magic in new frontends
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik7zinRmQru+JyAvAkgMDdXpwO7rw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=nLzrbQvCUCGcv6HOANJpjBRqY3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB1q+UWY4Ask87jjC+oDBbBToaTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinZZfUQbP==w2J-fWS1aWzM1t1m4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7zinRmQru+JyAvAkgMDdXpwO7rw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikuN9REN_p6-4mDL4ktQ-yc+HWTkA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:31 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1 June 2011 04:37, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> * I vote that the -x flag be removed completely. ?Edit should just edit.
>
> This is already done in code - the -x flag isn't accepted when calling %edit
> in a ZMQ shell. It just hasn't been removed from the docstring yet.
>
> Or do you mean that the single process terminal frontend shouldn't execute
> code after editing?

Yes, I have always found it confusing that "edit" actually meant "edit
and run" in the terminal.

Cheers,

Brian

> Thomas
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 16:32:58 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:32:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Thomas,

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This makes sense. I understand we can easily create a CNAME if we're hosting
> the site using Github pages.
>
>>
>> * Using sphinx for the entire site as matplotlib does.
>
> This I'm less sure about. Sphinx is great for documentation, but I don't
> think it works so well for a whole website:
>
> * The layout is really geared towards writing documentation.
> * With so many projects now using Sphinx for docs, people instantly
> recognise the layout and think 'docs'. Whenever I go to matplotlib's
> website, I have this feeling that I've missed the homepage somewhere and
> skipped straight to the docs.
> * We'll want to update parts of the website fairly often. If every small
> change requires the site to be checked out as source, rebuilt by Sphinx
> (with all its dependencies) and reuploaded, the site's just going to get out
> of date.

Mmh, I actually think that sphinx is a good choice, given your points
above.  Hear me out:

- layout: that's just a matter of theming, and a small amount of
theme/template work (that would need to be done anyway for any site)
can make a sphinx-based site look completely different.

- updates: I update my site (sphinx-based: http://fperez.org) with a simple

make upload

that runs 'make html' and then rsyncs the content up.  I actually find
that to be the easiest way to do it, since it reuses the tools I
already use for everything else (make, git, sphinx, rsync).

I *really* want the website content to be under version control, and
also to be written in reST instead of hand-coded html (except possibly
for a few visually key pages like the main page, if necessary).  If
it's in simple reST we're much more likely to actually keep it updated
than if we have to hand-edit html, which I find fairly unpleasant.

One of the things that I sadly let fall through the cracks when I came
back from India, was that Komal (CC'd here), one of the students who
participated in the IPython sprints, did make headway into this
problem already:

https://github.com/komal2608/ipython-website

She took my advice of porting our existing content to sphinx and got
things going, and unfortunately upon my return I never followed up on
this (my apology, BTW).  I haven't had a chance to review it yet, but
that was done based on the plan of building with sphinx from our
existing content on the moin wiki.

>> * Moving the wiki stuff over to github.
>
> Again, this makes sense. I take it we're talking about turning on the wiki
> feature in Github, rather than just moving the content into github pages?

I think the main site shouldn't *be* a wiki, but that we should *have*
a wiki.  A wiki is good for certain things, and having one will be
good.  The github one may be OK, I haven't actually used it.  Other
things equal, github will win on the grounds of good tool reuse.

> I think the key thing is to work out how we want to divide content between:
> - Documentation
> - A wiki
> - A landing page (or a small collection of pages)

I think the landing page should be visually very good (and I'm awful
at that), and then we should have a few pages for specific areas of
content that don't need to be in the manuals themselves.  But I
suspect with a bit of sphinx theming, all those could be done nicely
in reST, leaving the wiki for community-edited material and the manual
for full-on docs.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 16:35:37 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 13:35:37 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] %edit magic in new frontends
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikuN9REN_p6-4mDL4ktQ-yc+HWTkA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=nLzrbQvCUCGcv6HOANJpjBRqY3A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinB1q+UWY4Ask87jjC+oDBbBToaTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinZZfUQbP==w2J-fWS1aWzM1t1m4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7zinRmQru+JyAvAkgMDdXpwO7rw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikuN9REN_p6-4mDL4ktQ-yc+HWTkA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ZM46NB-c-Kw6L+vt5ScjM5EhZKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 1:06 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Yes, I have always found it confusing that "edit" actually meant "edit
> and run" in the terminal.

Let's not completely change this, though: while we can debate whether
it was the right original choice for me to have made years ago, and I
actually don't ever use %edit myself, I've seen (and received email
feedback) about people who *only* use ipython this way, and who rely
on this behavior as their natural workflow.

I think that if we find glaring problems in our design we should
definitely fix them and break backwards compatibility, but we should
also give some consideration to the weight of habit that has been
built in the worfklows of many people who may not necessarily be vocal
on our -dev list.

Cheers,

f


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun  1 19:04:55 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:04:55 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>

On 6/1/11 1:33 PM, MinRK wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:20, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> What we have currently is extremely primitive, and only meant to
>>> protect against accidental execution rather than
>>> malicious intrusion. The key is sent and checked with every message.
>>
>> If I understand correctly the link Jason sent, and from a quick
>> reading of the multiprocessing code, we should be able to use the same
>> machinery to avoid sending/receving the keys.  The main functions that
>> do the work in MP are in the 'connection' submodule, and they are
>> really two standalone functions:
>>
>> def deliver_challenge(connection, authkey):
>>     import hmac
>>     assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
>>     message = os.urandom(MESSAGE_LENGTH)
>>     connection.send_bytes(CHALLENGE + message)
>>     digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
>>     response = connection.recv_bytes(256)        # reject large message
>>     if response == digest:
>>         connection.send_bytes(WELCOME)
>>     else:
>>         connection.send_bytes(FAILURE)
>>         raise AuthenticationError('digest received was wrong')
>>
>> def answer_challenge(connection, authkey):
>>     import hmac
>>     assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
>>     message = connection.recv_bytes(256)         # reject large message
>>     assert message[:len(CHALLENGE)] == CHALLENGE, 'message = %r' % message
>>     message = message[len(CHALLENGE):]
>>     digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
>>     connection.send_bytes(digest)
>>     response = connection.recv_bytes(256)        # reject large message
>>     if response != WELCOME:
>>         raise AuthenticationError('digest sent was rejected')
>>
>>
>> They work with objects that have a basic socket interface, but
>> adapting this to zmq sockets should be possible.  Am I missing
>> something?
>
> We have 3 main channels:
> Shell (XREQ-XREP)
> Stdin (XREQ-XREQ) (I think?)
> IOPub (PUB-SUB)
>
> Of these, *only* the XREP can authenticate connections.  The reason is
> that none of the other sockets actually know where messages came from,
> so there's no mechanism for seeing if the sender previously had a
> successful handshake because you actually have no idea who the sender
> was.
>
> Even the client's XREQ socket cannot authenticate replies, it must
> trust that the replies are coming from the kernel.
>
> That said, the only easy one is the one that is the most important -
> the Kernel checking requests prior to execution. However, if you have
> someone sniffing on the line, it's trivial to spoof an authenticated
> socket - just copy the IDENT, which is sent in the clear over the
> wire, and the kernel will have exactly no idea that you aren't the
> original authenticated client.


If we don't have the concept of connection, then maybe we can 
authenticate each request by "signing" the requests.  For example, we 
could send a hash of the concatenation of the shared secret and the 
content of the message.  So a message would look like:

(signature, json_message)

The receiving code would then do the same process: concatenate the bytes 
in json_message, right off the wire, with the shared secret, do the same 
hash, and check the signature.  This would provide some assurance that 
whoever sent the message knew the shared secret.

Another thing we could do for a sequence of messages is to always 
increment a sequence number appended to the shared secret before sending 
the message, and send the hash of the shared secret + sequence number. 
This provides a series of keys, but each is a one-time key (the receiver 
tracks the sequence number, so it can ignore people that try to reuse 
these hashes).

Jason



From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 19:26:45 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:26:45 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikieQDu0sCR0iS1qD=Fo7KEc1d2Aw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 16:04, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/11 1:33 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 11:20, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 9:41 AM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>>
>>>> What we have currently is extremely primitive, and only meant to
>>>> protect against accidental execution rather than
>>>> malicious intrusion. The key is sent and checked with every message.
>>>
>>> If I understand correctly the link Jason sent, and from a quick
>>> reading of the multiprocessing code, we should be able to use the same
>>> machinery to avoid sending/receving the keys. ?The main functions that
>>> do the work in MP are in the 'connection' submodule, and they are
>>> really two standalone functions:
>>>
>>> def deliver_challenge(connection, authkey):
>>> ? ?import hmac
>>> ? ?assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
>>> ? ?message = os.urandom(MESSAGE_LENGTH)
>>> ? ?connection.send_bytes(CHALLENGE + message)
>>> ? ?digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
>>> ? ?response = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ?# reject large message
>>> ? ?if response == digest:
>>> ? ? ? ?connection.send_bytes(WELCOME)
>>> ? ?else:
>>> ? ? ? ?connection.send_bytes(FAILURE)
>>> ? ? ? ?raise AuthenticationError('digest received was wrong')
>>>
>>> def answer_challenge(connection, authkey):
>>> ? ?import hmac
>>> ? ?assert isinstance(authkey, bytes)
>>> ? ?message = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ? # reject large message
>>> ? ?assert message[:len(CHALLENGE)] == CHALLENGE, 'message = %r' % message
>>> ? ?message = message[len(CHALLENGE):]
>>> ? ?digest = hmac.new(authkey, message).digest()
>>> ? ?connection.send_bytes(digest)
>>> ? ?response = connection.recv_bytes(256) ? ? ? ?# reject large message
>>> ? ?if response != WELCOME:
>>> ? ? ? ?raise AuthenticationError('digest sent was rejected')
>>>
>>>
>>> They work with objects that have a basic socket interface, but
>>> adapting this to zmq sockets should be possible. ?Am I missing
>>> something?
>>
>> We have 3 main channels:
>> Shell (XREQ-XREP)
>> Stdin (XREQ-XREQ) (I think?)
>> IOPub (PUB-SUB)
>>
>> Of these, *only* the XREP can authenticate connections. ?The reason is
>> that none of the other sockets actually know where messages came from,
>> so there's no mechanism for seeing if the sender previously had a
>> successful handshake because you actually have no idea who the sender
>> was.
>>
>> Even the client's XREQ socket cannot authenticate replies, it must
>> trust that the replies are coming from the kernel.
>>
>> That said, the only easy one is the one that is the most important -
>> the Kernel checking requests prior to execution. However, if you have
>> someone sniffing on the line, it's trivial to spoof an authenticated
>> socket - just copy the IDENT, which is sent in the clear over the
>> wire, and the kernel will have exactly no idea that you aren't the
>> original authenticated client.
>
>
> If we don't have the concept of connection, then maybe we can authenticate
> each request by "signing" the requests. ?For example, we could send a hash
> of the concatenation of the shared secret and the content of the message.
> ?So a message would look like:
>
> (signature, json_message)
>
> The receiving code would then do the same process: concatenate the bytes in
> json_message, right off the wire, with the shared secret, do the same hash,
> and check the signature. ?This would provide some assurance that whoever
> sent the message knew the shared secret.

I don't see a reason why this wouldn't work.  If we don't have
one-time keys, then there's
nothing preventing sniffers from resubmitting the *same* message,
though it would protect
against arbitrary code.

The only disadvantage is that you are digesting potentially large
messages, but that's the way it goes.

>
> Another thing we could do for a sequence of messages is to always increment
> a sequence number appended to the shared secret before sending the message,
> and send the hash of the shared secret + sequence number. This provides a
> series of keys, but each is a one-time key (the receiver tracks the sequence
> number, so it can ignore people that try to reuse these hashes).

With multiple clients, there would need to be a counter *per client*,
since each client doesn't
know how many messages the other clients are sending.

>
> Jason
>
>


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun  1 19:35:17 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 01 Jun 2011 18:35:17 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>

On 6/1/11 6:04 PM, Jason Grout wrote:
> For example, we
> could send a hash of the concatenation of the shared secret and the
> content of the message.

Of course, as aptly stated by khrafra [1] and many others, it's always 
better to use the prebuilt libraries to do signing.  Here are two 
standard modules that could do authentication:

Standard Python module: http://docs.python.org/library/hmac.html

Google Keyczar: http://www.keyczar.org/

Thanks,

Jason


[1] 
http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/attt2/dont_hash_secrets/c0jdilj 
: Haha.. you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The 
most famous is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only 
slightly less famous is this: Never attempt to roll your own crypto when 
there's a well-tested library that'll do it better!


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  1 19:42:49 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 1 Jun 2011 16:42:49 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com> <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinBA80BE7O+X1=mvFGqyAXZpWcJdw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 16:35, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 6/1/11 6:04 PM, Jason Grout wrote:
>> For example, we
>> could send a hash of the concatenation of the shared secret and the
>> content of the message.
>
> Of course, as aptly stated by khrafra [1] and many others, it's always
> better to use the prebuilt libraries to do signing. ?Here are two
> standard modules that could do authentication:

Certainly true.  I've already started writing the signing code with
hmac, but I have to run
and meet some ZeroMQ folks in San Francisco.  I should probably have a
sample up tomorrow.

>
> Standard Python module: http://docs.python.org/library/hmac.html
>
> Google Keyczar: http://www.keyczar.org/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
>
> [1]
> http://www.reddit.com/r/netsec/comments/attt2/dont_hash_secrets/c0jdilj
> : Haha.. you fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The
> most famous is: Never get involved in a land war in Asia. But only
> slightly less famous is this: Never attempt to roll your own crypto when
> there's a well-tested library that'll do it better!
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 05:57:00 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 10:57:00 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>

On 1 June 2011 21:32, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> I *really* want the website content to be under version control, and
> also to be written in reST instead of hand-coded html (except possibly
> for a few visually key pages like the main page, if necessary).  If
> it's in simple reST we're much more likely to actually keep it updated
> than if we have to hand-edit html, which I find fairly unpleasant.
>

I think in fact we're saying the same thing, but from two different angles.
I'm not suggesting we write reams of content in straight HTML. Sphinx/RST is
the right tool for the bulk of the stuff, augmented with a wiki for the more
changeable stuff. But, as you say, a couple of key pages - certainly the
landing page, and perhaps also the download page - need to be visually
attractive.

I think this is going to be easier to achieve by designing them in HTML than
by trying to hammer Sphinx's output into the form we want. Sphinx can be
themed, but the examples I've seen all still fit within a certain Sphinx
model, which doesn't feel ideal for a homepage.

I'll try building Komal's repository a bit later on.

In terms of the landing page, have you had a look at the file I sent above?
I'm by no means a designer, but that's how I envisage the basic shape of it
- a little content, with the focus on a set of key links to downloads, docs,
mailing lists, etc.

Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 11:37:34 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 08:37:34 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=v8kGC_dvQq8Ex8ArmWk8TUcyVqw@mail.gmail.com>

A few comments:

* We are not very far off from being at the point where we hire a
professional design firm to design a logo, color scheme and website
for us.
* I am very much in favor of us sticking with Sphinx for everything
for now because we will spend dozens of hours getting a hand coded
website to look as nice as Sphinx across all browsers.  Sure we could
do this, but I think it is not worth the effort at this point when a
full blow professional designed site is just around the corner.
* We can tweak the Sphinx css to "personalize" our design.
* I think the websites that are using Sphinx throughout (networkx,
matplotlib) have an extremely nice uniform look at the only sites that
beat these in terms of looks (sqlalchemy) are done professional
quality designed sites.
* We could have a different Sphinx website for the docs and the main
website with slightly different color themes to distinguish the two,
but I don't think that is necessary.

Cheers,

Brian

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 2:57 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 1 June 2011 21:32, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I *really* want the website content to be under version control, and
>> also to be written in reST instead of hand-coded html (except possibly
>> for a few visually key pages like the main page, if necessary). ?If
>> it's in simple reST we're much more likely to actually keep it updated
>> than if we have to hand-edit html, which I find fairly unpleasant.
>
> I think in fact we're saying the same thing, but from two different angles.
> I'm not suggesting we write reams of content in straight HTML. Sphinx/RST is
> the right tool for the bulk of the stuff, augmented with a wiki for the more
> changeable stuff. But, as you say, a couple of key pages - certainly the
> landing page, and perhaps also the download page - need to be visually
> attractive.
>
> I think this is going to be easier to achieve by designing them in HTML than
> by trying to hammer Sphinx's output into the form we want. Sphinx can be
> themed, but the examples I've seen all still fit within a certain Sphinx
> model, which doesn't feel ideal for a homepage.
>
> I'll try building Komal's repository a bit later on.
>
> In terms of the landing page, have you had a look at the file I sent above?
> I'm by no means a designer, but that's how I envisage the basic shape of it
> - a little content, with the focus on a set of key links to downloads, docs,
> mailing lists, etc.
>
> Thomas
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 11:52:27 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 16:52:27 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=v8kGC_dvQq8Ex8ArmWk8TUcyVqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=v8kGC_dvQq8Ex8ArmWk8TUcyVqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=qT=ghV0YqGKMDKzt7BP9HU89hkQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 2 June 2011 16:37, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> * We are not very far off from being at the point where we hire a
> professional design firm to design a logo, color scheme and website
> for us.
>

OK, I didn't know that. I shall let them handle it, then.

* We can tweak the Sphinx css to "personalize" our design.
> * I think the websites that are using Sphinx throughout (networkx,
> matplotlib) have an extremely nice uniform look at the only sites that
> beat these in terms of looks (sqlalchemy) are done professional
> quality designed sites.


To me, sphinx websites look like documentation. You can customise the
design, but it's still obviously a sphinx website, and I still feel that
I've missed the homepage when I look at the sites for matplotlib or
networkx.

But if we're just talking about a stopgap until we get professionals to
design a website for us, let's not waste time arguing about how we do it. Do
we have a rough timescale for when this design will be happening?

Thanks,
Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 14:41:55 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 11:41:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <9FFA06C8-D32E-4C31-891E-90E7D9A041E9@gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com> <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinBA80BE7O+X1=mvFGqyAXZpWcJdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6D110.2010002@creativetrax.com>
	<9FFA06C8-D32E-4C31-891E-90E7D9A041E9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin7zx8UjXPmH3uiSEsEpcqY_5SXUw@mail.gmail.com>

I'm realizing that, in the parallel code at least, there is no way to
maintain these counters in a synchronized way.  This is because the
connections are in fact many-to-many, not one-to-many, so the receiver
can't know the count for the sender, and for load-balanced execution
the sender doesn't know who the receiver is. What I've done instead to
prevent sniffed duplicates is to simply keep track of previously seen
digests, and don't allow repeats.

The code is pretty simple, and I'll merge it after the newconfig code is merged.

-MinRK

On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 17:29, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, I will add it to the Session object in IPython. ?Like the ssh code, though, there is really nothing IPython specific in the session (aside from the use of traitlets). It's a perfectly general pyzmq utility that you could use anywhere, and might (someday) end up in pyzmq itself.
>
> -MinRK
>
> On Jun 1, 2011, at 16:53, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
>
>> On 6/1/11 6:42 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>> On Wed, Jun 1, 2011 at 16:35, Jason Grout<jason-sage at creativetrax.com> ?wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/11 6:04 PM, Jason Grout wrote:
>>>>> For example, we
>>>>> could send a hash of the concatenation of the shared secret and the
>>>>> content of the message.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, as aptly stated by khrafra [1] and many others, it's always
>>>> better to use the prebuilt libraries to do signing. ?Here are two
>>>> standard modules that could do authentication:
>>>
>>> Certainly true. ?I've already started writing the signing code with
>>> hmac, but I have to run
>>> and meet some ZeroMQ folks in San Francisco. ?I should probably have a
>>> sample up tomorrow.
>>
>>
>> Fantastic! ?Thanks! ?Do you mean that you are adding this directly to pyzmq, as a layer above the library wrapper? ?That's where we would use it, though if it wasn't in pyzmq, I suppose we could always just incorporate the functions themselves into our codebase.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jason
>>
>> --
>> Jason Grout
>
>


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Thu Jun  2 15:10:06 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 14:10:06 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin7zx8UjXPmH3uiSEsEpcqY_5SXUw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com>
	<4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinBA80BE7O+X1=mvFGqyAXZpWcJdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6D110.2010002@creativetrax.com>
	<9FFA06C8-D32E-4C31-891E-90E7D9A041E9@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin7zx8UjXPmH3uiSEsEpcqY_5SXUw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE7E00E.6030200@creativetrax.com>

On 6/2/11 1:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
> I'm realizing that, in the parallel code at least, there is no way to
> maintain these counters in a synchronized way.  This is because the
> connections are in fact many-to-many, not one-to-many, so the receiver
> can't know the count for the sender, and for load-balanced execution
> the sender doesn't know who the receiver is. What I've done instead to
> prevent sniffed duplicates is to simply keep track of previously seen
> digests, and don't allow repeats.

That makes sense.

>
> The code is pretty simple, and I'll merge it after the newconfig code is merged.

Did you happen to push it to a github branch somewhere?  If so, we might 
use it pretty much immediately in our Sage "single-cell" web server.

You're right that it should be simple enough to write myself, but I 
figure (*especially* with crypto) it's better to have two eyes looking 
at one piece of code rather than two people rewriting the same thing twice.

Jason


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 15:12:11 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 12:12:11 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <4DE7E00E.6030200@creativetrax.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com> <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinBA80BE7O+X1=mvFGqyAXZpWcJdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6D110.2010002@creativetrax.com>
	<9FFA06C8-D32E-4C31-891E-90E7D9A041E9@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin7zx8UjXPmH3uiSEsEpcqY_5SXUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE7E00E.6030200@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=dYTXns4HE27rZ1BKhr76VFGgdkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:10, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> On 6/2/11 1:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> I'm realizing that, in the parallel code at least, there is no way to
>> maintain these counters in a synchronized way. ?This is because the
>> connections are in fact many-to-many, not one-to-many, so the receiver
>> can't know the count for the sender, and for load-balanced execution
>> the sender doesn't know who the receiver is. What I've done instead to
>> prevent sniffed duplicates is to simply keep track of previously seen
>> digests, and don't allow repeats.
>
> That makes sense.
>
>>
>> The code is pretty simple, and I'll merge it after the newconfig code is
>> merged.
>
> Did you happen to push it to a github branch somewhere? ?If so, we might use
> it pretty much immediately in our Sage "single-cell" web server.
>
> You're right that it should be simple enough to write myself, but I figure
> (*especially* with crypto) it's better to have two eyes looking at one piece
> of code rather than two people rewriting the same thing twice.

I'll push it this afternoon, I'm just cleaning up a few things first.

>
> Jason
>


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 18:05:06 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 15:05:06 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] pyzmq authentication
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=dYTXns4HE27rZ1BKhr76VFGgdkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4DE52899.90402@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=W6v2HaAGboRFgXwf3KMxrPpFNVw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE52FC3.1080408@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=nXFDBrpQMC=9LYW6bfdVuWccKeg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6414F.3070002@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTikyp1EezUjGtFo8Kw4mcD3i+urYZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=qN0fF3xH7eEFQ=L=i9quw52h41g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikDCgQ00gsV8f8AEsD-aPmpDhv+Gw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6C597.1020201@creativetrax.com> <4DE6CCB5.5080706@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinBA80BE7O+X1=mvFGqyAXZpWcJdw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE6D110.2010002@creativetrax.com>
	<9FFA06C8-D32E-4C31-891E-90E7D9A041E9@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin7zx8UjXPmH3uiSEsEpcqY_5SXUw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE7E00E.6030200@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=dYTXns4HE27rZ1BKhr76VFGgdkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=8vx=U_9p_8BVnwcSq+Mss4uYaEQ@mail.gmail.com>

Pushed to my hmac branch.  The relevant code is in the sign method:
https://github.com/minrk/ipython/blob/hmac/IPython/parallel/streamsession.py#L231
and the checking in unpack_message:
https://github.com/minrk/ipython/blob/hmac/IPython/parallel/streamsession.py#L448

Note that this class is *not* used in IPython.zmq, but the two classes
will be merged at some point.

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:12, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 12:10, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
>> On 6/2/11 1:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm realizing that, in the parallel code at least, there is no way to
>>> maintain these counters in a synchronized way. ?This is because the
>>> connections are in fact many-to-many, not one-to-many, so the receiver
>>> can't know the count for the sender, and for load-balanced execution
>>> the sender doesn't know who the receiver is. What I've done instead to
>>> prevent sniffed duplicates is to simply keep track of previously seen
>>> digests, and don't allow repeats.
>>
>> That makes sense.
>>
>>>
>>> The code is pretty simple, and I'll merge it after the newconfig code is
>>> merged.
>>
>> Did you happen to push it to a github branch somewhere? ?If so, we might use
>> it pretty much immediately in our Sage "single-cell" web server.
>>
>> You're right that it should be simple enough to write myself, but I figure
>> (*especially* with crypto) it's better to have two eyes looking at one piece
>> of code rather than two people rewriting the same thing twice.
>
> I'll push it this afternoon, I'm just cleaning up a few things first.
>
>>
>> Jason
>>
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Thu Jun  2 22:58:48 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 19:58:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 2:57 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think in fact we're saying the same thing, but from two different angles.
> I'm not suggesting we write reams of content in straight HTML. Sphinx/RST is
> the right tool for the bulk of the stuff, augmented with a wiki for the more
> changeable stuff. But, as you say, a couple of key pages - certainly the
> landing page, and perhaps also the download page - need to be visually
> attractive.
>
> I think this is going to be easier to achieve by designing them in HTML than
> by trying to hammer Sphinx's output into the form we want. Sphinx can be
> themed, but the examples I've seen all still fit within a certain Sphinx
> model, which doesn't feel ideal for a homepage.

We're saying mostly the same thing, though I'm still saying that
sphinx *can* be the right tool even for what the part you have in
mind:

- sphinx makes it very easy to have specific pages in pure html (ideal
for heavily manually designed pages)

- while your statement above is true of most sphinx sites out there, I
don't think it's a necessary outcome, just the fact that most people
seem to do only minimal tweaking of the theme templates.  But even the
web ignoramus that I am was able to change my site (http://fperez.org)
to look somewhat different.  You can still recognize the right sidebar
easily, but I think it doesn't feel quite as doc-like as others, and
this was literally just a tiny bit of changing the default theme
template, with *zero* hand-coded html.

So I still think that a small amount of fiddling with shphinx, with
the deliberate intent of making a theme that is deliberately designed
*not* for documentation.  I think mine is a decent starting point,
since I already nuked many of the doc-driven elements out.  It just
needs a litlte more visual flair.


> I'll try building Komal's repository a bit later on.
>
> In terms of the landing page, have you had a look at the file I sent above?
> I'm by no means a designer, but that's how I envisage the basic shape of it
> - a little content, with the focus on a set of key links to downloads, docs,
> mailing lists, etc.

I just did now, and I think that's on the right track.

Back to Brian's comment and the question of resources, while we hope
to have later this year some extra resources for this kind of thing, I
honestly think that doing something now is not a bad idea at all, as
long as it doesn't become a major project for anyone.  It's not
*certain* we'll have spare resources for this, and our current
situation is so sad (an old moin wiki and a mishmash of github stuff)
that an improvement would be very welcome, in my view.  As long as
it's not a huge sink of effort, I don't see any harm in improving this
direction now, if you (or anyone else) has the energy for it. That's
why I proposed it as one of the India projects, which Komal picked up.

Cheers,

f


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Thu Jun  2 23:23:02 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2011 22:23:02 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE85396.8050109@creativetrax.com>

On 6/2/11 9:58 PM, Fernando Perez wrote:
> - sphinx makes it very easy to have specific pages in pure html (ideal
> for heavily manually designed pages)

I just browsed your site and checked out some of the show source links. 
  Very nice!  I'm now considering whether to move my personal DokuWiki 
site over to Sphinx.

When you say easy above, do you mean having a rst page that basically 
just consists of a singe raw:: html block, like this snippet from your 
site [1]?

.. raw:: html

    <div align="center"> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640"
    height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1j_HxD4iLn8" 
frameborder="0"
    allowfullscreen></iframe></div>

Thanks,

Jason


[1] http://fperez.org/_sources/talks/index.txt


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 01:51:21 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 22:51:21 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE85396.8050109@creativetrax.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE85396.8050109@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikEoszOocJG2Qh8hKOmSGrnR_=x2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Jason,

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> I just browsed your site and checked out some of the show source links.
> ?Very nice! ?I'm now considering whether to move my personal DokuWiki
> site over to Sphinx.

Thanks!  If you want to get going quickly, feel free to grab my
toolchain, it's available right there:

http://fperez.org/code/index.html

there are a few things that are needed to make building a normal
website more convenient with sphinx, and I think I've taken care of
that with the tools listed there (making it easy to automatically
sync/upload any static files you have locally like pdfs of talks and
papers is probably the main point).

> When you say easy above, do you mean having a rst page that basically
> just consists of a singe raw:: html block, like this snippet from your
> site [1]?
>
> .. raw:: html
>
> ? ?<div align="center"> <iframe title="YouTube video player" width="640"
> ? ?height="390" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/1j_HxD4iLn8"
> frameborder="0"
> ? ?allowfullscreen></iframe></div>
>

Yes.  I believe it's also possible to tell sphinx that certain pages
are kept as pure html and never held in reST, though I'm not sure
right now what the call/parameter is for that.

Best,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 01:54:11 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2011 22:54:11 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 2, 2011 at 7:58 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> - while your statement above is true of most sphinx sites out there, I
> don't think it's a necessary outcome, just the fact that most people
> seem to do only minimal tweaking of the theme templates. ?But even the
> web ignoramus that I am was able to change my site (http://fperez.org)
> to look somewhat different. ?You can still recognize the right sidebar
> easily, but I think it doesn't feel quite as doc-like as others, and
> this was literally just a tiny bit of changing the default theme
> template, with *zero* hand-coded html.

I think this proves my point much better than my lousy site:

http://www.pocoo.org/

That's the site of the sphinx guys themselves, and it says at the
bottom it was made with sphinx, yet I think it looks perfectly nice.
Something along those lines (ideas-wise, I don't mean copying the
design) is what I had in mind when I made my points above.

Best,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 06:04:24 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 11:04:24 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>

On 3 June 2011 06:54, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think this proves my point much better than my lousy site:
>
> http://www.pocoo.org/
>
> That's the site of the sphinx guys themselves, and it says at the
> bottom it was made with sphinx, yet I think it looks perfectly nice.
> Something along those lines (ideas-wise, I don't mean copying the
> design) is what I had in mind when I made my points above.
>

Point conceded. I hadn't realised all the Pocoo sites were done in Sphinx.

Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 09:03:35 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:03:35 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>

I've cloned Komal's repository and started fiddling. There's some way to go,
but it's looking promising.

https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website

Thomas
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From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Fri Jun  3 09:15:00 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2011 08:15:00 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>

On 6/3/11 8:03 AM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> I've cloned Komal's repository and started fiddling. There's some way to
> go, but it's looking promising.
>
> https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website

I cloned and tried building, but got an error:

% make
sphinx-build -b html -d _build/doctrees  . _build/html
Making output directory...
Running Sphinx v1.0.7

Extension error:
Could not import extension ipython_console_highlighting (exception: No 
module named ipython_console_highlighting)
make: *** [html] Error 1


Do you know what I need to do?  Is this a sphinx extension that should 
be installed?

Thanks,

Jason



From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 09:34:11 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 14:34:11 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=HzRLGzizNdxjUjLA+SkNZ3cGgPw@mail.gmail.com>

Oh yes, I got that too. I symlinked the sphinxext directory from /docs in
the ipython repository, which seems to have the relevant extension. But we
should work out a more permanent solution.

Thomas

On 3 June 2011 14:15, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:

> On 6/3/11 8:03 AM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> > I've cloned Komal's repository and started fiddling. There's some way to
> > go, but it's looking promising.
> >
> > https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>
> I cloned and tried building, but got an error:
>
> % make
> sphinx-build -b html -d _build/doctrees  . _build/html
> Making output directory...
> Running Sphinx v1.0.7
>
> Extension error:
> Could not import extension ipython_console_highlighting (exception: No
> module named ipython_console_highlighting)
> make: *** [html] Error 1
>
>
> Do you know what I need to do?  Is this a sphinx extension that should
> be installed?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jason
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 10:55:57 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 15:55:57 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>

In terms of what goes where, I suggest that the cookbook and the lists of
projects using IPython should stay in a wiki form somewhere. Of the
'developer zone', I think the more formal information belongs in the
developer section of the docs, and the other useful information should live
in a wiki.

That would leave the "landing" site with:
- homepage
- download & installation page
- news
- presentations
- FAQ
- citation

Thomas

On 3 June 2011 14:03, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've cloned Komal's repository and started fiddling. There's some way to
> go, but it's looking promising.
>
> https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>
> Thomas
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 12:21:25 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 09:21:25 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimD=z4ecExuai-yiDOjkNMHjRrfvA@mail.gmail.com>

n Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 6:15 AM, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
> Extension error:
> Could not import extension ipython_console_highlighting (exception: No
> module named ipython_console_highlighting)
> make: *** [html] Error 1
>
>
> Do you know what I need to do? ?Is this a sphinx extension that should
> be installed?

Oh, sorry, just nuke that from the conf.py for now (look for that
extension name towards the early part of the file).  You don't really
need it for a regular site in most cases.

I haven't really bulletproofed that tool very much, it's just my own
personal script, sorry.  But with a small amount of fiddling it should
be good to go for you later on.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 12:23:55 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 09:23:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=HzRLGzizNdxjUjLA+SkNZ3cGgPw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DE8DE54.2090906@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=HzRLGzizNdxjUjLA+SkNZ3cGgPw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikVNNzt=aefra3PLVTEOXKMfvUj3A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 6:34 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh yes, I got that too. I symlinked the sphinxext directory from /docs in
> the ipython repository, which seems to have the relevant extension. But we
> should work out a more permanent solution.
>

I said to Jason he should nuke it, since for his personal site he
likely won't need it.  For us, we should just make that extension an
installable part of ipython (I think there's even an open issue for
that, but I can't find it right now), since we'll likely want  to show
nicely highlighted ipython examples in our docs.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun  3 12:26:41 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2011 09:26:41 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 7:55 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> In terms of what goes where, I suggest that the cookbook and the lists of
> projects using IPython should stay in a wiki form somewhere. Of the

I'd like a link to a wiki for that, so that users can update that
information, but it might be nice to have a more static version of the
same with screenshots, etc. Basically I see the wiki as a way for the
community to easily feed us information (already written up in reST),
some of which once 'edited' gets baked into the docs in a more
permanent fashion, with better formatting, etc.  But if that's too
much to commit to early on, no problem.

> 'developer zone', I think the more formal information belongs in the
> developer section of the docs, and the other useful information should live
> in a wiki.
>
> That would leave the "landing" site with:
> - homepage
> - download & installation page

And this should be mostly links to the PyPI and github download areas.

> - news
> - presentations
> - FAQ
> - citation

Sounds good.

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 08:03:02 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:03:02 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>

The website in my fork of Komal's repository is now (hopefully) up to date
and intact.

https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website

Cookbook, Developer zone, and Projects using IPython are, for now, links
pointing to the moin wiki. News is up to date, version numbers should be
correct, and the content on the homepage has been cut down. The favicon is a
bland placeholder until someone feels like designing a decent one.

Please do build it and let me know if you spot any mistakes or omissions.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From satra at mit.edu  Mon Jun  6 21:39:09 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 21:39:09 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
Message-ID: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>

hi min and brian,

trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master

cheers,

satra

Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
    Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core
-Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o
-L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
    ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
******************************************
cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g -O3
-arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
-I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
-I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include
-I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
zmq/core/constants.c -o
build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function
-Wno-strict-aliasing
zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported
only once
zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use in this
function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared (first use
in this function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use in
this function)
zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared (first
use in this function)
error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun  6 22:11:48 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 19:11:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>

Hi, sorry you are having issues.

Those values being undefined means the zmq.h that gcc is finding is old (pre-2.1.0, I think), but weirdly the libzmq the detection is finding is current.

Try looking around for zmq.h, and removing the old one.

-MinRK

On Jun 6, 2011, at 18:39, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:

> hi min and brian,
> 
> trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master
> 
> cheers,
> 
> satra
> 
> Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
>     Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
> cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
> cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o -L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
>     ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
> ******************************************
> cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
> building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
> creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
> creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
> creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
> gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g -O3 -arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c zmq/core/constants.c -o build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function -Wno-strict-aliasing
> zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
> zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
> zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use in this function)
> zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared (first use in this function)
> error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 13:25:31 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 18:25:31 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>

I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:

http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/

Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before the
0.11 release.

Thanks,
Thomas

On 6 June 2011 13:03, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> The website in my fork of Komal's repository is now (hopefully) up to date
> and intact.
>
>
> https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>
> Cookbook, Developer zone, and Projects using IPython are, for now, links
> pointing to the moin wiki. News is up to date, version numbers should be
> correct, and the content on the homepage has been cut down. The favicon is a
> bland placeholder until someone feels like designing a decent one.
>
> Please do build it and let me know if you spot any mistakes or omissions.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
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From tdimiduk at physics.harvard.edu  Wed Jun  8 13:27:13 2011
From: tdimiduk at physics.harvard.edu (Tom Dimiduk)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 13:27:13 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DEFB0F1.6020203@physics.harvard.edu>

Mention that it works on python 2.7?

On 06/08/2011 01:25 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
>
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>
> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before
> the 0.11 release.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> On 6 June 2011 13:03, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com
> <mailto:takowl at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     The website in my fork of Komal's repository is now (hopefully) up
>     to date and intact.
>
>
>     https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>
>     Cookbook, Developer zone, and Projects using IPython are, for now,
>     links pointing to the moin wiki. News is up to date, version numbers
>     should be correct, and the content on the homepage has been cut
>     down. The favicon is a bland placeholder until someone feels like
>     designing a decent one.
>
>     Please do build it and let me know if you spot any mistakes or
>     omissions.
>
>     Thanks,
>     Thomas
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:04:34 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:04:34 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DEFB0F1.6020203@physics.harvard.edu>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DEFB0F1.6020203@physics.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=w7w7dpPs=8zynsiaJcAaohMhE0w@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 June 2011 18:27, Tom Dimiduk <tdimiduk at physics.harvard.edu> wrote:

> Mention that it works on python 2.7?


Good point, thanks. It's updated.

I'll also remember to change it when we release 0.11, because we're dropping
support for Python 2.5.

Best wishes,
Thomas
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From dsdale24 at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:07:58 2011
From: dsdale24 at gmail.com (Darren Dale)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:07:58 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] Message spec draft more fleshed out
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinmtG09CEX8NS+K=NBJKmfGmio8Ciq35rm5vvO7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinmtG09CEX8NS+K=NBJKmfGmio8Ciq35rm5vvO7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik4m735mB6zSq5gLAzfO-46bT-Upw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Fernando,

On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> here:
>
> http://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/106bc2e0587d315db67988c1803b8574fc54463a/docs/source/development/messaging.txt
>
> is a more fleshed out message spec document for feedback.

I haven't been following this topic very closely, but a colleague just
brought MessagePack to my attention: http://msgpack.org/ . I thought
it might be of interest to the IPython devs.

Darren


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:11:40 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 11:11:40 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
>
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>
> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before the
> 0.11 release.

Awesome!!!

I would really like to thank both Komal and Thomas for making this
happen, as well as apologizing to Komal for having initially ignored
your great work that got this ball moving.  I hope you won't take it
as a slight, and will be interested in participating again in the
project (whether on website work or anything else).

OK, how should we proceed?  The only problem is that I'm knee-deep
into the writing of *two* grants, both of which will directly benefit
IPython in a major way if funded, but which are taking up a lot of my
time. AKA, I'm swamped but happy to delegate.

As far as I'm concerned, that is already so much nicer than what we
had, that I'd be happy to move *today*.  It would be great to give our
scipy'11 talk with 0.11 off a nice new website :)

The points I can think of are:

- wiki: do we move off moin to the github one?  That seems a
no-brainer to me, but I haven't actually used the gh wiki, so perhaps
it's not a good idea for some reason I'm not aware of.

- logistics of moving: the hosting is currently off the scipy.org
server.  Thomas, I'm happy to give you login access on the ipython
account if you just send me your public ssh key.

Alternatively we can look into hosting it elsewhere if we want to have
a more updated platform.  The scipy.org server is stuck in a time
dilation bubble running Fedora 4, released 6 years ago and
unmaintained for almost as many, so doing anything useful on that
server is a major exercise in frustration, since you're stuck running
python2.4 and ages-old libraries.  I do have a dreamhost account with
unlimited hosting that is at least running debian 5 and has some more
up-to-date tools (though we'd still need to do a home build of
python2.6/3 on it).  I also own the ipython.org  domain, which
currently just redirects to ipython.scipy.org, but we could switch to
using that.

Cheers,

f


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:20:37 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 11:20:37 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
>>
>> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>>
>> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
>> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
>> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before the
>> 0.11 release.
>
> Awesome!!!
>
> I would really like to thank both Komal and Thomas for making this
> happen, as well as apologizing to Komal for having initially ignored
> your great work that got this ball moving. ?I hope you won't take it
> as a slight, and will be interested in participating again in the
> project (whether on website work or anything else).
>
> OK, how should we proceed? ?The only problem is that I'm knee-deep
> into the writing of *two* grants, both of which will directly benefit
> IPython in a major way if funded, but which are taking up a lot of my
> time. AKA, I'm swamped but happy to delegate.
>
> As far as I'm concerned, that is already so much nicer than what we
> had, that I'd be happy to move *today*. ?It would be great to give our
> scipy'11 talk with 0.11 off a nice new website :)
>
> The points I can think of are:
>
> - wiki: do we move off moin to the github one? ?That seems a
> no-brainer to me, but I haven't actually used the gh wiki, so perhaps
> it's not a good idea for some reason I'm not aware of.

Yes, let's move the wiki to github, including the FAQ, Cookbook, etc.

> - logistics of moving: the hosting is currently off the scipy.org
> server. ?Thomas, I'm happy to give you login access on the ipython
> account if you just send me your public ssh key.
>
> Alternatively we can look into hosting it elsewhere if we want to have
> a more updated platform. ?The scipy.org server is stuck in a time
> dilation bubble running Fedora 4, released 6 years ago and
> unmaintained for almost as many, so doing anything useful on that
> server is a major exercise in frustration, since you're stuck running
> python2.4 and ages-old libraries. ?I do have a dreamhost account with
> unlimited hosting that is at least running debian 5 and has some more
> up-to-date tools (though we'd still need to do a home build of
> python2.6/3 on it). ?I also own the ipython.org ?domain, which
> currently just redirects to ipython.scipy.org, but we could switch to
> using that.

I am strongly in favor of moving to another hosting situation and
using the ipython.org domain.

Let's also create an official IPython repo for the site so all of us
can commit/push directly to it.

> Cheers,
>
> f
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:22:49 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:22:49 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinb4sBpJStjDGeys-rr0hvCtNgknQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 June 2011 19:11, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> As far as I'm concerned, that is already so much nicer than what we
> had, that I'd be happy to move *today*.  It would be great to give our
> scipy'11 talk with 0.11 off a nice new website :)
>

Excellent!


>  The points I can think of are:
>
> - wiki: do we move off moin to the github one?  That seems a
> no-brainer to me, but I haven't actually used the gh wiki, so perhaps
> it's not a good idea for some reason I'm not aware of.
>

It's kind of orthogonal - so long as we leave the relevant parts of the
current wiki up, we can link to them. We can move that stuff to Github and
update the links at any point.


>
> - logistics of moving: the hosting is currently off the scipy.org
> server.  Thomas, I'm happy to give you login access on the ipython
> account if you just send me your public ssh key.
>
> Alternatively we can look into hosting it elsewhere if we want to have
> a more updated platform.  The scipy.org server is stuck in a time
> dilation bubble running Fedora 4, released 6 years ago and
> unmaintained for almost as many, so doing anything useful on that
> server is a major exercise in frustration, since you're stuck running
> python2.4 and ages-old libraries.  I do have a dreamhost account with
> unlimited hosting that is at least running debian 5 and has some more
> up-to-date tools (though we'd still need to do a home build of
> python2.6/3 on it).  I also own the ipython.org  domain, which
> currently just redirects to ipython.scipy.org, but we could switch to
> using that.
>

I suggest we use github pages, have www.ipython.org as the primary domain,
and ipython.scipy.org as a redirect to it. ipython.github.com would also
automatically become a redirect.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:34:07 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 11:34:07 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:20, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
> >>
> >> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
> >>
> >> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
> >> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
> >> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before
> the
> >> 0.11 release.
>

Great!  one small note: use the current logo in the docs, rather than the
old one from scipy.org (the bevels make me sad).
It's in docs/source/_static/logo.png



> >
> > Awesome!!!
> >
> > I would really like to thank both Komal and Thomas for making this
> > happen, as well as apologizing to Komal for having initially ignored
> > your great work that got this ball moving.  I hope you won't take it
> > as a slight, and will be interested in participating again in the
> > project (whether on website work or anything else).
> >
> > OK, how should we proceed?  The only problem is that I'm knee-deep
> > into the writing of *two* grants, both of which will directly benefit
> > IPython in a major way if funded, but which are taking up a lot of my
> > time. AKA, I'm swamped but happy to delegate.
> >
> > As far as I'm concerned, that is already so much nicer than what we
> > had, that I'd be happy to move *today*.  It would be great to give our
> > scipy'11 talk with 0.11 off a nice new website :)
> >
> > The points I can think of are:
> >
> > - wiki: do we move off moin to the github one?  That seems a
> > no-brainer to me, but I haven't actually used the gh wiki, so perhaps
> > it's not a good idea for some reason I'm not aware of.
>
> Yes, let's move the wiki to github, including the FAQ, Cookbook, etc.
>
> > - logistics of moving: the hosting is currently off the scipy.org
> > server.  Thomas, I'm happy to give you login access on the ipython
> > account if you just send me your public ssh key.
> >
> > Alternatively we can look into hosting it elsewhere if we want to have
> > a more updated platform.  The scipy.org server is stuck in a time
> > dilation bubble running Fedora 4, released 6 years ago and
> > unmaintained for almost as many, so doing anything useful on that
> > server is a major exercise in frustration, since you're stuck running
> > python2.4 and ages-old libraries.  I do have a dreamhost account with
> > unlimited hosting that is at least running debian 5 and has some more
> > up-to-date tools (though we'd still need to do a home build of
> > python2.6/3 on it).  I also own the ipython.org  domain, which
> > currently just redirects to ipython.scipy.org, but we could switch to
> > using that.
>
> I am strongly in favor of moving to another hosting situation and
> using the ipython.org domain.
>

Is there any reason to not just point ipython.org to ipython.github.com, and
host there?  We definitely *shouldn't* put it back on scipy.org



>
> Let's also create an official IPython repo for the site so all of us
> can commit/push directly to it.
>
> > Cheers,
> >
> > f
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 14:53:34 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 11:53:34 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:34 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there any reason to not just point ipython.org to ipython.github.com, and
> host there? ?We definitely *shouldn't* put it back on scipy.org

Well, the question is, if we want to ever host anything other than the
html, like static files, pdfs, videos, etc, or configure any other
functionality, we may find the github hosting insufficient and a real
shell account may be a welcome bit of functionality.

BUT, since I'm so incredibly time-constrained right now, I'm more than
happy to go with GH right away if you guys prefer that.

I have made an 'ipython' user account on dreamhost and I can give any
of the core devs ssh access to it if you want, so if you prefer to
configure things off the ipython.org server, it will only take a few
minutes.

I'm kind of partial to having real shell access for this kind of work,
so my vote is for going with a real server, but perhaps we don't
really need that much...

Thoughts?

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 15:26:43 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 20:26:43 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 June 2011 19:53, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well, the question is, if we want to ever host anything other than the
> html, like static files, pdfs, videos, etc, or configure any other
> functionality, we may find the github hosting insufficient and a real
> shell account may be a welcome bit of functionality.
>

We can put static files there (as we do for the PDF docs at the moment). As
far as I know, the only real limitation is that we can't have dynamic pages
(e.g. a wiki, comment form, etc.). I don't think that's really an obstacle
for what we want.

I'd favour using Github, unless we've got some good reason not to, if only
because all the core devs are already set up to use it.

Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 15:37:30 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 20:37:30 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=VXjmZkoTvhHe9sK9J5W9n+a-iKg@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 June 2011 19:34, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Great!  one small note: use the current logo in the docs, rather than the
> old one from scipy.org (the bevels make me sad).
> It's in docs/source/_static/logo.png
>

Done, thanks.

As a side note, if anyone with graphic design skills wants to design a
bigger logo for the header, that would be good. Take a look at
http://sphinx.pocoo.org/ or http://matplotlib.sourceforge.net/ to see the
sort of thing I mean.

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 16:32:49 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:32:49 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Message spec draft more fleshed out
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik4m735mB6zSq5gLAzfO-46bT-Upw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinmtG09CEX8NS+K=NBJKmfGmio8Ciq35rm5vvO7@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4m735mB6zSq5gLAzfO-46bT-Upw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=OJLVTv9x7PbGvuqGS6n+NcZ8XoA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 11:07, Darren Dale <dsdale24 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Fernando,
>
> On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 4:02 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > here:
> >
> >
> http://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/106bc2e0587d315db67988c1803b8574fc54463a/docs/source/development/messaging.txt
> >
> > is a more fleshed out message spec document for feedback.
>
> I haven't been following this topic very closely, but a colleague just
> brought MessagePack to my attention: http://msgpack.org/ . I thought
> it might be of interest to the IPython devs.
>

That is definitely cool.  Perhaps we should provide a note in the message
doc that describes how to use custom serialization, and various useful
libraries such as this one.

Once the Session object in the parallel code replaces the one in IPython.zmq
(already done in a local branch, but waiting for newapp to merge), the
message serialization will be user configurable, just like it is in the
parallel code.  The message spec only requires that messages be JSONable
(simple dicts/lists of strings and numbers), and there is no code (or
shouldn't be, anyway) outside the Session that deals with JSON directly.

-MinRK


> Darren
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 16:58:12 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 13:58:12 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd favour using Github, unless we've got some good reason not to, if only
> because all the core devs are already set up to use it.

No objection from me for now then, we can always revisit this if the
need arises.  As long as github gets us moving *now*, it's already a
win.

I would, however, like to make sure that the publicly visible url is
always ipython.org, not a redirect to a github.com url. Is that
possible with their system (sorry if this is obvious, I just haven't
had the time to investigate their setup).

In that case, then we'd only need to set up the GH machinery, and
someone let me know if I need to configure anything special with my
webhost for the ipython.org domain (right now it redirects to
ipython.scipy.org).  Once ipython.org is working as we like it, we can
ask Enthought's admin to change ipython.scipy.org to redirect to
ipython.org.

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 17:03:47 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:03:47 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=KjxHig6jkF8br8YVSq7pxy=cE3g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 13:58, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I'd favour using Github, unless we've got some good reason not to, if
> only
> > because all the core devs are already set up to use it.
>
> No objection from me for now then, we can always revisit this if the
> need arises.  As long as github gets us moving *now*, it's already a
> win.
>
> I would, however, like to make sure that the publicly visible url is
> always ipython.org, not a redirect to a github.com url. Is that
> possible with their system (sorry if this is obvious, I just haven't
> had the time to investigate their setup).
>

This is easy, see the pages doc: http://pages.github.com/#custom_domains


>
> In that case, then we'd only need to set up the GH machinery, and
> someone let me know if I need to configure anything special with my
> webhost for the ipython.org domain (right now it redirects to
> ipython.scipy.org).  Once ipython.org is working as we like it, we can
> ask Enthought's admin to change ipython.scipy.org to redirect to
> ipython.org.
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 17:09:20 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 22:09:20 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=KjxHig6jkF8br8YVSq7pxy=cE3g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=KjxHig6jkF8br8YVSq7pxy=cE3g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikX3AoKpA6e6Ab2qGhGe_RKXwUwHg@mail.gmail.com>

On 8 June 2011 22:03, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would, however, like to make sure that the publicly visible url is
>> always ipython.org, not a redirect to a github.com url. Is that
>> possible with their system (sorry if this is obvious, I just haven't
>> had the time to investigate their setup).
>>
>
> This is easy, see the pages doc: http://pages.github.com/#custom_domains
>

To summarise: they'll make ipython.github.com redirect to ipython.org when
we set it up.

I think the first thing to do is if you (Fernando) can create two
repositories under ipython: clone ipython-website for the source, and create
ipython.github.com (as the repo name) for the built website. When we push to
the latter, it should automatically appear at ipython.github.com. Then we
can set it up to serve as ipython.org instead.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 17:11:48 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 14:11:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikX3AoKpA6e6Ab2qGhGe_RKXwUwHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=KjxHig6jkF8br8YVSq7pxy=cE3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikX3AoKpA6e6Ab2qGhGe_RKXwUwHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik7rCioVF0MN_DuixZF1CM=jsxsJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:09 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think the first thing to do is if you (Fernando) can create two
> repositories under ipython: clone ipython-website for the source, and create
> ipython.github.com (as the repo name) for the built website. When we push to
> the latter, it should automatically appear at ipython.github.com. Then we
> can set it up to serve as ipython.org instead.

Let's quckly chat on IRC to finish this up...

f


From satra at mit.edu  Wed Jun  8 18:06:30 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 18:06:30 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>

hi min

found the file. i'm using EPD and since it bundles pyzmq, the include path
contains the old pyzmq. i'm trying to figure out a way to have this pyzmq
compile with my zmq instead of EPD's.

cheers,

satra



On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, sorry you are having issues.
>
> Those values being undefined means the zmq.h that gcc is finding is old
> (pre-2.1.0, I think), but weirdly the libzmq the detection is finding is
> current.
>
> Try looking around for zmq.h, and removing the old one.
>
> -MinRK
>
> On Jun 6, 2011, at 18:39, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>
> > hi min and brian,
> >
> > trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master
> >
> > cheers,
> >
> > satra
> >
> > Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
> >     Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
> > cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core
> -Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
> > cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o
> -L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
> >     ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
> > ******************************************
> > cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
> > building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
> > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g
> -O3 -arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include
> -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
> zmq/core/constants.c -o
> build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function
> -Wno-strict-aliasing
> > zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported
> only once
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in this
> function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared (first
> use in this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use in
> this function)
> > zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared
> (first use in this function)
> > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IPython-dev mailing list
> > IPython-dev at scipy.org
> > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 18:19:27 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:19:27 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik7rCioVF0MN_DuixZF1CM=jsxsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=x1fEd8UdLKBCHHZqcs7ESS0kdJg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim4WxnRt4MQGQCzwkHzTqJj1ZBa3Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=GBhaCUM80uBRmGyLzwft-LWcvsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKoN-YM_2YZ-Bnc2y+z5NCoY+B6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=LkcmreN6Zvqt-VdY4RRyADG18iQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinzDVnpAy3MOza_F3DLz3Am+zzE2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=KjxHig6jkF8br8YVSq7pxy=cE3g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikX3AoKpA6e6Ab2qGhGe_RKXwUwHg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik7rCioVF0MN_DuixZF1CM=jsxsJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinbqw6DUemVSnqAdUtQKOwLUe0ZHQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 2:11 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Let's quckly chat on IRC to finish this up...

OK, we've just created a clean website repo:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython-website

which publishes to:

http://ipython.github.com/

In a few hours, once DNS changes propagate, it will also work as ipython.org.

Many thanks again to Komal and Thomas for getting us out of ugly land!

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 18:30:25 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:30:25 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:06, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:

> hi min
>
> found the file. i'm using EPD and since it bundles pyzmq, the include path
> contains the old pyzmq. i'm trying to figure out a way to have this pyzmq
> compile with my zmq instead of EPD's.
>

use `python setup.py configure --zmq=/path/to/install/prefix` to tell pyzmq
where libzmq is installed.  I'm a bit concerned by the how your
configuration is inconsistent, such that LD finds your libzmq before EPD's,
but gcc finds EPD's zmq.h before yours.

In any case, specifying the zmq location should help.


>
> cheers,
>
> satra
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, sorry you are having issues.
>>
>> Those values being undefined means the zmq.h that gcc is finding is old
>> (pre-2.1.0, I think), but weirdly the libzmq the detection is finding is
>> current.
>>
>> Try looking around for zmq.h, and removing the old one.
>>
>> -MinRK
>>
>> On Jun 6, 2011, at 18:39, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > hi min and brian,
>> >
>> > trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master
>> >
>> > cheers,
>> >
>> > satra
>> >
>> > Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
>> >     Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
>> > cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core
>> -Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
>> > cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o
>> -L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
>> >     ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
>> > ******************************************
>> > cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
>> > building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
>> > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g
>> -O3 -arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include
>> -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
>> zmq/core/constants.c -o
>> build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function
>> -Wno-strict-aliasing
>> > zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is
>> reported only once
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in this
>> function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared (first
>> use in this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use in
>> this function)
>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared
>> (first use in this function)
>> > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > IPython-dev mailing list
>> > IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>
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From satra at mit.edu  Wed Jun  8 18:47:57 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 18:47:57 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>

hi min,

unfortunately that didn't help. you can see from the output that the
configuration simply uses a limited set of directories, while the gcc
compilation during the build process lists the EPD include directory before
the include dir found by configure or setup.cfg

output at: https://gist.github.com/1015631

cheers,

satra


On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:30 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:06, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>
>> hi min
>>
>> found the file. i'm using EPD and since it bundles pyzmq, the include path
>> contains the old pyzmq. i'm trying to figure out a way to have this pyzmq
>> compile with my zmq instead of EPD's.
>>
>
> use `python setup.py configure --zmq=/path/to/install/prefix` to tell pyzmq
> where libzmq is installed.  I'm a bit concerned by the how your
> configuration is inconsistent, such that LD finds your libzmq before EPD's,
> but gcc finds EPD's zmq.h before yours.
>
> In any case, specifying the zmq location should help.
>
>
>>
>> cheers,
>>
>> satra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, sorry you are having issues.
>>>
>>> Those values being undefined means the zmq.h that gcc is finding is old
>>> (pre-2.1.0, I think), but weirdly the libzmq the detection is finding is
>>> current.
>>>
>>> Try looking around for zmq.h, and removing the old one.
>>>
>>> -MinRK
>>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2011, at 18:39, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> > hi min and brian,
>>> >
>>> > trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master
>>> >
>>> > cheers,
>>> >
>>> > satra
>>> >
>>> > Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
>>> >     Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
>>> > cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core
>>> -Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
>>> > cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o
>>> -L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
>>> >     ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
>>> > ******************************************
>>> > cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
>>> > building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
>>> > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g
>>> -O3 -arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
>>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
>>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include
>>> -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
>>> zmq/core/constants.c -o
>>> build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function
>>> -Wno-strict-aliasing
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is
>>> reported only once
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use in
>>> this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared (first
>>> use in this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use
>>> in this function)
>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared
>>> (first use in this function)
>>> > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > IPython-dev mailing list
>>> > IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>> > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>
>>
>
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 19:01:54 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:01:54 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>

EPD has installed zmq.h to
/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include, then?  If adding
locations to include_dirs explicitly does not take precedence over the
system defaults, then this is honestly a huge, critical bug in EPD itself,
but I'm not 100% what's responsible for EPD being inappropriately prepended
to the include path.

The dirty, hackish answer would be to remove (or rename) the zmq headers
installed by EPD, or install libzmq with a prefix of
'/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0', thus clobbering the old
libzmq.  There shouldn't be any EPD code that requires the existence of the
zmq *headers*, but if they do similar horrible things with library paths,
then you will only get one step further, and need to remove/replace libzmq
in EPD entirely.

-MinRK

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:47, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:

> hi min,
>
> unfortunately that didn't help. you can see from the output that the
> configuration simply uses a limited set of directories, while the gcc
> compilation during the build process lists the EPD include directory before
> the include dir found by configure or setup.cfg
>
> output at: https://gist.github.com/1015631
>
> cheers,
>
> satra
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 6:30 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 15:06, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> hi min
>>>
>>> found the file. i'm using EPD and since it bundles pyzmq, the include
>>> path contains the old pyzmq. i'm trying to figure out a way to have this
>>> pyzmq compile with my zmq instead of EPD's.
>>>
>>
>> use `python setup.py configure --zmq=/path/to/install/prefix` to tell
>> pyzmq where libzmq is installed.  I'm a bit concerned by the how your
>> configuration is inconsistent, such that LD finds your libzmq before EPD's,
>> but gcc finds EPD's zmq.h before yours.
>>
>> In any case, specifying the zmq location should help.
>>
>>
>>>
>>> cheers,
>>>
>>> satra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 6, 2011 at 10:11 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi, sorry you are having issues.
>>>>
>>>> Those values being undefined means the zmq.h that gcc is finding is old
>>>> (pre-2.1.0, I think), but weirdly the libzmq the detection is finding is
>>>> current.
>>>>
>>>> Try looking around for zmq.h, and removing the old one.
>>>>
>>>> -MinRK
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 6, 2011, at 18:39, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > hi min and brian,
>>>> >
>>>> > trying to compile pyzmq, both from git clone master
>>>> >
>>>> > cheers,
>>>> >
>>>> > satra
>>>> >
>>>> > Configure: Autodetecting ZMQ settings...
>>>> >     Custom ZMQ dir:       /software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi
>>>> > cc -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core
>>>> -Izmq/devices -c detect/vers.c -o detect/vers.o
>>>> > cc -arch x86_64 -undefined dynamic_lookup detect/vers.o
>>>> -L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o detect/vers
>>>> >     ZMQ version detected: 2.1.7
>>>> > ******************************************
>>>> > cythoning zmq/core/constants.pyx to zmq/core/constants.c
>>>> > building 'zmq.core.constants' extension
>>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7
>>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq
>>>> > creating build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core
>>>> > gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g
>>>> -O3 -arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
>>>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
>>>> -I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include
>>>> -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
>>>> zmq/core/constants.c -o
>>>> build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/core/constants.o -Wno-unused-function
>>>> -Wno-strict-aliasing
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c: In function ?initconstants?:
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: ?ZMQ_XPUB? undeclared (first use in
>>>> this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: (Each undeclared identifier is
>>>> reported only once
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1024: error: for each function it appears in.)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1036: error: ?ZMQ_XSUB? undeclared (first use in
>>>> this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1662: error: ?ZMQ_FD? undeclared (first use in
>>>> this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1674: error: ?ZMQ_EVENTS? undeclared (first use
>>>> in this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1686: error: ?ZMQ_TYPE? undeclared (first use in
>>>> this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1698: error: ?ZMQ_LINGER? undeclared (first use
>>>> in this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1710: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL? undeclared
>>>> (first use in this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1722: error: ?ZMQ_BACKLOG? undeclared (first use
>>>> in this function)
>>>> > zmq/core/constants.c:1850: error: ?ZMQ_RECONNECT_IVL_MAX? undeclared
>>>> (first use in this function)
>>>> > error: command 'gcc' failed with exit status 1
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > IPython-dev mailing list
>>>> > IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>>> > http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IPython-dev mailing list
>>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 19:43:07 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:43:07 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <isp1ec$rrd$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/8/11 6:01 PM, MinRK wrote:
> EPD has installed zmq.h to
> /Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include, then?  If adding
> locations to include_dirs explicitly does not take precedence over the system
> defaults, then this is honestly a huge, critical bug in EPD itself, but I'm not
> 100% what's responsible for EPD being inappropriately prepended to the include path.
>
> The dirty, hackish answer would be to remove (or rename) the zmq headers
> installed by EPD, or install libzmq with a prefix of
> '/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0', thus clobbering the old
> libzmq.  There shouldn't be any EPD code that requires the existence of the zmq
> *headers*, but if they do similar horrible things with library paths, then you
> will only get one step further, and need to remove/replace libzmq in EPD entirely.

You can easily remove the 0MQ libraries and pyzmq from EPD, which is probably 
best, regardless:

   $ egginst --remove zeromq pyzmq

I don't *think* we've modified distutils to prepend {sys.prefix}/include/.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From satra at mit.edu  Wed Jun  8 19:49:11 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:49:11 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <isp1ec$rrd$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<isp1ec$rrd$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikeVJum5_N8d8TiDXX4aAYSijmEuw@mail.gmail.com>

thanks min and robert.

i went with removing the EPD libraries for now and the current pyzmq
installed fine.

cheers,

satra


On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/8/11 6:01 PM, MinRK wrote:
> > EPD has installed zmq.h to
> > /Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include, then?  If
> adding
> > locations to include_dirs explicitly does not take precedence over the
> system
> > defaults, then this is honestly a huge, critical bug in EPD itself, but
> I'm not
> > 100% what's responsible for EPD being inappropriately prepended to the
> include path.
> >
> > The dirty, hackish answer would be to remove (or rename) the zmq headers
> > installed by EPD, or install libzmq with a prefix of
> > '/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0', thus clobbering the
> old
> > libzmq.  There shouldn't be any EPD code that requires the existence of
> the zmq
> > *headers*, but if they do similar horrible things with library paths,
> then you
> > will only get one step further, and need to remove/replace libzmq in EPD
> entirely.
>
> You can easily remove the 0MQ libraries and pyzmq from EPD, which is
> probably
> best, regardless:
>
>   $ egginst --remove zeromq pyzmq
>
> I don't *think* we've modified distutils to prepend {sys.prefix}/include/.
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>   -- Umberto Eco
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From robert.kern at gmail.com  Wed Jun  8 19:51:05 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Wed, 08 Jun 2011 18:51:05 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikeVJum5_N8d8TiDXX4aAYSijmEuw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>	<isp1ec$rrd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTikeVJum5_N8d8TiDXX4aAYSijmEuw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <isp1tb$tpi$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/8/11 6:49 PM, Satrajit Ghosh wrote:
> thanks min and robert.
>
> i went with removing the EPD libraries for now and the current pyzmq installed fine.

Is the EPD include/ directory still showing up in the compile line?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From satra at mit.edu  Wed Jun  8 19:56:45 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 19:56:45 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <isp1tb$tpi$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <BANLkTim9T8cNwNgDQ2U7+=xvk5L3=1x=wQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<F368F34F-7E4E-47A5-9698-5BF2FE745794@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik5-Y1vmvyOsYk4knctzbOGrCZspA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik_Cd=7oiXJ5Lo5o9HqQr52UbTLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim6ePXEzY-OMESS5uo_dXrWBgreDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik84u6zWuST=SYAYWWLEMP1=hsOWQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<isp1ec$rrd$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTikeVJum5_N8d8TiDXX4aAYSijmEuw@mail.gmail.com>
	<isp1tb$tpi$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=vYL82-Nzj0YYX-6dwjv4MOmBU8g@mail.gmail.com>

hi robert,

in fact as you can see below, both the compile step and the linking step
includes the EPD include/lib directories.

gcc -fno-strict-aliasing -fno-common -dynamic -arch x86_64 -DNDEBUG -g -O3
-arch x86_64 -I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include
-I/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/include -Izmq/utils -Izmq/core -Izmq/devices
-I/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include/python2.7 -c
zmq/devices/monitoredqueue.c -o
build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/devices/monitoredqueue.o
-Wno-unused-function -Wno-strict-aliasing

gcc -g -arch x86_64 -L/usr/local/lib
-L/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/lib -bundle -undefined
dynamic_lookup -g -arch x86_64 -L/usr/local/lib
-L/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/lib -arch x86_64
build/temp.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/devices/monitoredqueue.o
-L/software/venvs/EPD/7.0/ipxi/lib -lzmq -o
build/lib.macosx-10.5-x86_64-2.7/zmq/devices/monitoredqueue.so

cheers,

satra

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:51 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/8/11 6:49 PM, Satrajit Ghosh wrote:
> > thanks min and robert.
> >
> > i went with removing the EPD libraries for now and the current pyzmq
> installed fine.
>
> Is the EPD include/ directory still showing up in the compile line?
>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless
> enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it
> had
>  an underlying truth."
>   -- Umberto Eco
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From ischnell at enthought.com  Thu Jun  9 19:35:03 2011
From: ischnell at enthought.com (Ilan Schnell)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 18:35:03 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
Message-ID: <BANLkTim+YvyctDn=0oLE5S7qtwgQ1-3jYg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Group,

it is true that EPD installs zmq.h (anf many other header file,
other than the Python ones) in <sys.prefix>/include.  This way
the headers are always on the include path, if you use
distutils to compile C extensions.

> EPD has installed zmq.h to
> /Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include, then?  If adding
> locations to include_dirs explicitly does not take precedence over the
> system defaults, then this is honestly a huge, critical bug in EPD itself,
> but I'm not 100% what's responsible for EPD being inappropriately prepended
> to the include path.

distuils is responsible this, so it is not a hugh critical bug in EPD itself,
although one could argue that it is a bug in distutils.  However, we don't
want to change distutils default behavior in EPD.

> The dirty, hackish answer would be to remove (or rename) the zmq headers
> installed by EPD, or install libzmq with a prefix of
> '/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0', thus clobbering the old
> libzmq.  There shouldn't be any EPD code that requires the existence of the
> zmq *headers*, but if they do similar horrible things with library paths,
> then you will only get one step further, and need to remove/replace libzmq
> in EPD entirely.

removing the zeromq EPD package, which includes the headers is a good solution.

- Ilan


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Thu Jun  9 20:42:28 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 17:42:28 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] trying to compile pyzmq
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim+YvyctDn=0oLE5S7qtwgQ1-3jYg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim+YvyctDn=0oLE5S7qtwgQ1-3jYg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikxj0_UGA25gbzUNiBo56tzr9D4UA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 16:35, Ilan Schnell <ischnell at enthought.com> wrote:

> Hello Group,
>
> it is true that EPD installs zmq.h (anf many other header file,
> other than the Python ones) in <sys.prefix>/include.  This way
> the headers are always on the include path, if you use
> distutils to compile C extensions.
>

Yes, it's definitely appropriate to install the headers there for
development. Their presence is not the problem.


>
> > EPD has installed zmq.h to
> > /Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0/include, then?  If
> adding
> > locations to include_dirs explicitly does not take precedence over the
> > system defaults, then this is honestly a huge, critical bug in EPD
> itself,
> > but I'm not 100% what's responsible for EPD being inappropriately
> prepended
> > to the include path.
>
> distuils is responsible this, so it is not a hugh critical bug in EPD
> itself,
> although one could argue that it is a bug in distutils.  However, we don't
> want to change distutils default behavior in EPD.
>

I agree that you wouldn't want to change the behavior of distutils, but it
is not accurate that distutils is entirely responsible.

EPD's config/Makefile specifies  `-I<sysprefix>/include` dir in OPT, which
ends up in CFLAGS, which comes *before* any user-specified include dirs.

Python.org builds do not have any include dirs in this variable, and thus do
not have this problem (possibly for this reason).  The result is that EPD
includes sysprefix/include *twice* - in the highest priority position via
CFLAGS, and in the lowest priority position via normal channels.  The latter
doesn't cause any problems, but the former breaks user-specified include
paths.

If you
edit /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.7/lib/python2.7/config/Makefile
and remove the trailing '-I/Library...', from line 61 (starting `OPT=`) then
configuration will be properly respected.

Note that this does not remove the -I<sysprefix>/include from compilation
flags, it only removes the *duplicate* entry that placed it at the highest
priority inappropriately.

Since this is an issue that makes EPD behavior different from Python.org
installs in a build-breaking way, I think it can rightly be considered an
EPD bug, though it is distutils that pulls the EPD configuration into the
compilation commands.  However, it could also be considered a deliberate
feature that EPD prevents the use of multiple versions of compiled libraries
by overriding user preferences during compilation.

-MinRK



>
> > The dirty, hackish answer would be to remove (or rename) the zmq headers
> > installed by EPD, or install libzmq with a prefix of
> > '/Library/Frameworks/EPD64.framework/Versions/7.0', thus clobbering the
> old
> > libzmq.  There shouldn't be any EPD code that requires the existence of
> the
> > zmq *headers*, but if they do similar horrible things with library paths,
> > then you will only get one step further, and need to remove/replace
> libzmq
> > in EPD entirely.
>
> removing the zeromq EPD package, which includes the headers is a good
> solution.
>
> - Ilan
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 05:26:30 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 10:26:30 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinR5TwTxY_SL0ns69iTNZv-8gyZyg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinySpuRTvxRz2JTeWq8ZnOppAqmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9mrwgsxCoVET6qBNj4RHvT6emfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinR5TwTxY_SL0ns69iTNZv-8gyZyg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=1AwLxGT5kwPZrLvNsuQ5jUd3Wkg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks, Carl. I'm no designer, so unless someone else comes forwards about a
banner, I'll probably get back to you about it.

Best wishes,
Thomas

On 10 June 2011 01:00, Carl Joseph Younger <carl.input at gmail.com> wrote:

> I might be able to help you with a banner, I'm just in the middle of
> something not fun with Google's blobstore API. If you haven't got it
> sorted in the next few days, give me a nudge and I'll put something
> together.
>
> Nice one
>
>
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From satra at mit.edu  Fri Jun 10 12:56:50 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:56:50 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] task client equivalence
Message-ID: <BANLkTinxGwHApCPLZtQC51pVN5cqmoxDAw@mail.gmail.com>

what would be the ipy:xi equivalent of:

taskclient.clear(taskid)

given that currently no taskid is returned but an async result object, how
do i clear things related to that process after its done?

cheers,

satra
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 14:17:00 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:17:00 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] task client equivalence
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinxGwHApCPLZtQC51pVN5cqmoxDAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinxGwHApCPLZtQC51pVN5cqmoxDAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik0MF16B548vshEzEbq-T_0eyAirg@mail.gmail.com>

Since the controller uses a database rather than storing everything in
memory, it should be less important (from a memory footprint perspective,
anyway) to clear the data.

It is now Client.purge_results(msg_ids) to clear data in the Hub (Views wrap
this method as well).  It expects msg_ids, but you can pass it AsyncResults,
since they are just really just containers of msg_ids.

-MinRK

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 09:56, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:

> what would be the ipy:xi equivalent of:
>
> taskclient.clear(taskid)
>
> given that currently no taskid is returned but an async result object, how
> do i clear things related to that process after its done?
>
> cheers,
>
> satra
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:05:11 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:05:11 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
Message-ID: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi folks,

well, ipython.org is now officially functioning, and over the next few
days ipython.scipy.org will at some point become a redirect to that.
Wohoo!   BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue.  For a
long time we've had a simple, static directory:

http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/

that houses release files and other static content.  This is handy for
many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc).  Pypi and possibly many
other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.

Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github setup?

Cheers,

f


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:14:47 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:14:47 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>

The github files area should allow us to host all of these things just fine.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:05 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> well, ipython.org is now officially functioning, and over the next few
> days ipython.scipy.org will at some point become a redirect to that.
> Wohoo! ? BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue. ?For a
> long time we've had a simple, static directory:
>
> http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/
>
> that houses release files and other static content. ?This is handy for
> many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
> get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc). ?Pypi and possibly many
> other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
> ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.
>
> Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github setup?
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:19:42 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:19:42 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> The github files area should allow us to host all of these things just fine.

Do you know if there's an easy way to upload/rsync/whatever a bunch of
stuff to the files area on one shot?  In fact, I actually don't know
what the 'files area' is... I see the 'downloads' button but that's
auto-generated from git release tags, so it's tied to the repo.  Which
is the area for static files?

f


From scorpion032 at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:36:48 2011
From: scorpion032 at gmail.com (Lakshman Prasad)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 01:06:48 +0530
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTindnPJG5=TJYjmni1mLA+x4KZ5tNw@mail.gmail.com>

Just add the folder into the gh-pages branch
git add folder
git commit
git push

It will be accessible via ipython.org/folder-name

I figure there is a bandwidth and/or file-size restriction for direct
downloads.

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:49 AM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com>wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > The github files area should allow us to host all of these things just
> fine.
>
> Do you know if there's an easy way to upload/rsync/whatever a bunch of
> stuff to the files area on one shot?  In fact, I actually don't know
> what the 'files area' is... I see the 'downloads' button but that's
> auto-generated from git release tags, so it's tied to the repo.  Which
> is the area for static files?
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:42:06 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:42:06 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimE=x4ngEODx8jmM0tm4RotvvrDsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:19, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > The github files area should allow us to host all of these things just
> fine.
>
> Do you know if there's an easy way to upload/rsync/whatever a bunch of
> stuff to the files area on one shot?  In fact, I actually don't know
> what the 'files area' is... I see the 'downloads' button but that's
> auto-generated from git release tags, so it's tied to the repo.  Which
> is the area for static files?
>

Tags are automatically *added* to the downloads, but you can upload anything
you want.

There isn't an API for uploading files, but there are scripts for it:
https://github.com/tekkub/github-upload

Also note that pages repos are expected to serve static files, so they can
be put in the repo just fine.

-MinRK



>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 15:58:45 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 12:58:45 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinYFZg1_AzaapP1U0Ak2N4zYD6h5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=HRB6eqBGe9WTdaK0tNM9KnXZGyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimJ_p5vN58=8SNgDSQ5sn3YZ45u1w@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I meant the download area.  You can manually post files in the
download area as well, which we do for pyzmq.  I would use that for
static files that are releases/downloads and use the github files for
other static stuff.

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:19 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 12:14 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> The github files area should allow us to host all of these things just fine.
>
> Do you know if there's an easy way to upload/rsync/whatever a bunch of
> stuff to the files area on one shot? ?In fact, I actually don't know
> what the 'files area' is... I see the 'downloads' button but that's
> auto-generated from git release tags, so it's tied to the repo. ?Which
> is the area for static files?
>
> f
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 16:43:21 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 21:43:21 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 June 2011 20:05, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> well, ipython.org is now officially functioning, and over the next few
> days ipython.scipy.org will at some point become a redirect to that.
>

Will ipython.scipy.org/moin/ still exist, or do we need to move some stuff
to a Github wiki quickly? At present, the cookbook, 'developer zone' and
list of projects that use IPython are still based on the moin wiki.


> Wohoo!   BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue.  For a
> long time we've had a simple, static directory:
>
> http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/
>
> that houses release files and other static content.  This is handy for
> many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
> get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc).  Pypi and possibly many
> other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
> ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.
>
> Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github
> setup?
>

I'd go with roughly what other people are talking about: files to download
(like the releases) go in the Github downloads area, and other things can be
served straight from the website, as the PDF docs already are. Not quite as
convenient at the command line, perhaps, but I think it's workable.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 16:48:46 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 13:48:46 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Will ipython.scipy.org/moin/ still exist, or do we need to move some stuff
> to a Github wiki quickly? At present, the cookbook, 'developer zone' and
> list of projects that use IPython are still based on the moin wiki.

No, we'll need to move to a new wiki.  But I did ask the Enthought
admin to keep a domain like oldipython.scipy.org for a while, so we
can go fish anything we may have missed (and I still have ssh access
to the underlying account, if need be).

>> Wohoo! ? BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue. ?For a
>> long time we've had a simple, static directory:
>>
>> http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/
>>
>> that houses release files and other static content. ?This is handy for
>> many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
>> get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc). ?Pypi and possibly many
>> other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
>> ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.
>>
>> Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github
>> setup?
>
> I'd go with roughly what other people are talking about: files to download
> (like the releases) go in the Github downloads area, and other things can be
> served straight from the website, as the PDF docs already are. Not quite as
> convenient at the command line, perhaps, but I think it's workable.

Fine by me, but two questions:

- places like pypi expect a base url for downloads (what our old dist/
one did) and they go fishing in there for files (eggs, sources, etc).
Would the GH downloads area still work for that?

- the dist/ area is BIG, as in 400MB big right now.  Before I push
that, I want to make sure everyone saying that we go that route is OK
with it :)  I don't have time right now to spend a few hours pruning
old files, and I also *want* a public archive of all our old versions,
so simply deleting all the old releases is not on the table.  I can
push that dist/ as-is right now, but the next git pull of that repo
will be hefty for those working with it :)

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 17:28:26 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 14:28:26 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 13:48, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Will ipython.scipy.org/moin/ still exist, or do we need to move some
> stuff
> > to a Github wiki quickly? At present, the cookbook, 'developer zone' and
> > list of projects that use IPython are still based on the moin wiki.
>
> No, we'll need to move to a new wiki.  But I did ask the Enthought
> admin to keep a domain like oldipython.scipy.org for a while, so we
> can go fish anything we may have missed (and I still have ssh access
> to the underlying account, if need be).
>
> >> Wohoo!   BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue.  For a
> >> long time we've had a simple, static directory:
> >>
> >> http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/
> >>
> >> that houses release files and other static content.  This is handy for
> >> many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
> >> get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc).  Pypi and possibly many
> >> other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
> >> ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.
> >>
> >> Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github
> >> setup?
> >
> > I'd go with roughly what other people are talking about: files to
> download
> > (like the releases) go in the Github downloads area, and other things can
> be
> > served straight from the website, as the PDF docs already are. Not quite
> as
> > convenient at the command line, perhaps, but I think it's workable.
>
> Fine by me, but two questions:
>
> - places like pypi expect a base url for downloads (what our old dist/
> one did) and they go fishing in there for files (eggs, sources, etc).
> Would the GH downloads area still work for that?
>

Yes - if you've ever pip installed pyzmq you got it from the GitHub
downloads page.


>
> - the dist/ area is BIG, as in 400MB big right now.  Before I push
> that, I want to make sure everyone saying that we go that route is OK
> with it :)  I don't have time right now to spend a few hours pruning
> old files, and I also *want* a public archive of all our old versions,
> so simply deleting all the old releases is not on the table.  I can
> push that dist/ as-is right now, but the next git pull of that repo
> will be hefty for those working with it :)
>

I didn't realize just how huge it was.

As it stands, GitHub is not a good place to put lots of large files.  We
will quickly run into the free-account storage limit (300MB) if we dump
every old binary release there.

As Brian said, I think the IPython install downloads should *not* go in the
pages repo, but rather in the GitHub Downloads section, but we may want to
limit that to >= 0.10.

If we want to keep bdists in perpetuity, we need somewhere else.  *New*
releases, though, should certainly be in the GitHub downloads section.

-MinRK


>
> Cheers,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 17:35:08 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 22:35:08 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 June 2011 22:28, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> As it stands, GitHub is not a good place to put lots of large files.  We
> will quickly run into the free-account storage limit (300MB) if we dump
> every old binary release there.


Would Enthought object to us simply leaving it where it already is? It's a
bit of hard drive space, but if new releases are on Github, the bandwidth
used should be minimal.

Impressive, though, that we still have every version back to 0.0.1 (last
modified almost a decade ago).

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 18:19:22 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:19:22 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinoLKNrA1nGt2vAYc7vfMZyz0Wd0g@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Would Enthought object to us simply leaving it where it already is? It's a
> bit of hard drive space, but if new releases are on Github, the bandwidth
> used should be minimal.

I doubt it, it's not like they're kicking us out :)  I just want a
sensible solution from the DNS perspective, since ipython.scipy.org
will redirect to ipython.org, we don't want a circular redirect.

I don't know much about DNS... Is it possible to have ipython.org
point to github, but something like archive.ipython.org be elsewhere?
In that case, we can even host it at my dreamhost account, where I
control the DNS and have unlimited storage.

> Impressive, though, that we still have every version back to 0.0.1 (last
> modified almost a decade ago).

Yup, and I want to keep it that way.  Those should remain publicly
available for the foreseeable future, I think it's important to have a
long-term archival view of these things.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 18:36:18 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:36:18 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> No, we'll need to move to a new wiki.

And BTW, it's worth asking whether the github wiki really is the best
option: what I don't like about it, is that it has a very strongly
developer-oriented feel, because it's inside the repo area.  I wonder
if for general user issues, a standalone wiki instance (we could just
run a more recent version of moin, or something else, ourselves),
isn't a nicer solution.  I love github as much as anyone else, but I
don't think we need to blindly use github for everything just because
it's github.  We should evaluate each of the tools they offer and use
it only if it's a good fit for what we're trying to do.

In this case, our wiki should be mostly a place to collect
community/user feedback with a very low barrier of entry.  Before it
was also our main website, but that's gone, so we can focus on making
it as nice and useful as possible for the use case we actually need it
for.

Best,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 18:47:21 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 23:47:21 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinoLKNrA1nGt2vAYc7vfMZyz0Wd0g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinoLKNrA1nGt2vAYc7vfMZyz0Wd0g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin6yKhMuGrFQxmLNA2bQBSiYAyjXA@mail.gmail.com>

On 10 June 2011 23:19, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know much about DNS... Is it possible to have ipython.org
> point to github, but something like archive.ipython.org be elsewhere?
> In that case, we can even host it at my dreamhost account, where I
> control the DNS and have unlimited storage.
>

Yes, I think it should be. I'm not a DNS guru, but as far as I know you
should be able to set an A or CNAME record for any subdomain.

Re: wikis - Github has the advantage that it means most of our user
interaction is on one system, so we're not needlessly giving people another
username and password. That said, you're right that Github is really a
developer site.

Some of the content could be moved onto the website proper. But, I think we
have some stuff - especially the 'cookbook', which people outside the core
team should be able to update easily (without branching and sending a pull
request). What's the best way to do this? We could almost put the recipes in
something like gist, but with the idea of a collection.

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 18:52:56 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:52:56 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin6yKhMuGrFQxmLNA2bQBSiYAyjXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinoLKNrA1nGt2vAYc7vfMZyz0Wd0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin6yKhMuGrFQxmLNA2bQBSiYAyjXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=nStj3uRdoaeWr6A_5jagraYGOEw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 15:47, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 10 June 2011 23:19, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know much about DNS... Is it possible to have ipython.org
>> point to github, but something like archive.ipython.org be elsewhere?
>> In that case, we can even host it at my dreamhost account, where I
>> control the DNS and have unlimited storage.
>>
>
> Yes, I think it should be. I'm not a DNS guru, but as far as I know you
> should be able to set an A or CNAME record for any subdomain.
>

Yes, you can have (infinite?) subdomains that have no relation whatsoever to
where your top domain points.  I have used this to point to friends'
computers who don't have a domain name, just so I don't have to remember
their IP.


>
> Re: wikis - Github has the advantage that it means most of our user
> interaction is on one system, so we're not needlessly giving people another
> username and password. That said, you're right that Github is really a
> developer site.
>
> Some of the content could be moved onto the website proper. But, I think we
> have some stuff - especially the 'cookbook', which people outside the core
> team should be able to update easily (without branching and sending a pull
> request). What's the best way to do this? We could almost put the recipes in
> something like gist, but with the idea of a collection.
>
> Thomas
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 18:57:38 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 15:57:38 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin6yKhMuGrFQxmLNA2bQBSiYAyjXA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNNzBdg0unMU8fDfvGxTNqu1YNXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinjW8S5-GJHEyagtAjjM-cwp_PjXQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinoLKNrA1nGt2vAYc7vfMZyz0Wd0g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin6yKhMuGrFQxmLNA2bQBSiYAyjXA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikVLSG8E8sF3JoR4YH9Dga4ddW+zg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some of the content could be moved onto the website proper. But, I think we
> have some stuff - especially the 'cookbook', which people outside the core
> team should be able to update easily (without branching and sending a pull
> request).

A FAQ is also a good thing for users to be able to contribute to, as
is a list of projects using ipython, or of external
talks/presentations, etc.  There are good use cases for a wiki, and
one that should be friendly to users beyond the git-oriented
developers.

That's why I'm not yet sold on github being the right place for the
wiki.  This is the exact reason  why years ago we moved from Trac as
our wiki, and I think the same applies to github.

Cheers,

f


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 19:24:24 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:24:24 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=5pTFZgkWm5L=u8gRc09ACSsC+4A@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Will ipython.scipy.org/moin/ still exist, or do we need to move some stuff
>> to a Github wiki quickly? At present, the cookbook, 'developer zone' and
>> list of projects that use IPython are still based on the moin wiki.
>
> No, we'll need to move to a new wiki. ?But I did ask the Enthought
> admin to keep a domain like oldipython.scipy.org for a while, so we
> can go fish anything we may have missed (and I still have ssh access
> to the underlying account, if need be).
>
>>> Wohoo! ? BUT, we now need to figure out the static file issue. ?For a
>>> long time we've had a simple, static directory:
>>>
>>> http://ipython.scipy.org/dist/
>>>
>>> that houses release files and other static content. ?This is handy for
>>> many reasons (easy to use, simply scp a file in there and anyone can
>>> get it, convenient archive of old stuff, etc). ?Pypi and possibly many
>>> other locations point to that, so it would be nice if we could have
>>> ipython.org/dist with similar functionality.
>>>
>>> Thomas, do you have some ideas on how to approach this with the github
>>> setup?
>>
>> I'd go with roughly what other people are talking about: files to download
>> (like the releases) go in the Github downloads area, and other things can be
>> served straight from the website, as the PDF docs already are. Not quite as
>> convenient at the command line, perhaps, but I think it's workable.
>
> Fine by me, but two questions:
>
> - places like pypi expect a base url for downloads (what our old dist/
> one did) and they go fishing in there for files (eggs, sources, etc).
> Would the GH downloads area still work for that?

Yep:

https://github.com/zeromq/pyzmq/downloads

> - the dist/ area is BIG, as in 400MB big right now. ?Before I push
> that, I want to make sure everyone saying that we go that route is OK
> with it :) ?I don't have time right now to spend a few hours pruning
> old files, and I also *want* a public archive of all our old versions,
> so simply deleting all the old releases is not on the table. ?I can
> push that dist/ as-is right now, but the next git pull of that repo
> will be hefty for those working with it :)

Let's not push all of this to the github files.  Here is what I am thinking:

* Prune older binary releases (pre 0.10).
* Upload the newer binary+source releases and older source releases to
github downloads.
* See how big the rest of dist is and push that to the github files.

> Cheers,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 19:31:33 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 16:31:33 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 3:36 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 1:48 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>> No, we'll need to move to a new wiki.
>
> And BTW, it's worth asking whether the github wiki really is the best
> option: what I don't like about it, is that it has a very strongly
> developer-oriented feel, because it's inside the repo area. ?I wonder
> if for general user issues, a standalone wiki instance (we could just
> run a more recent version of moin, or something else, ourselves),
> isn't a nicer solution. ?I love github as much as anyone else, but I
> don't think we need to blindly use github for everything just because
> it's github. ?We should evaluate each of the tools they offer and use
> it only if it's a good fit for what we're trying to do.

I think that the github wiki is a good option, mainly because (I
think) it solves all of the problem of who can edit the wiki.  Moin is
a nightmare for that and forces us to manage users by hand.  Also, in
my mind, github is not just for developers in that it hosts our issue
and downloads which both are user focused.

But if we do want a separate wiki, I am -1 on Moin.  I have not been
impressed with it at all.  We would have to go searching for
alternatives...

> In this case, our wiki should be mostly a place to collect
> community/user feedback with a very low barrier of entry. ?Before it
> was also our main website, but that's gone, so we can focus on making
> it as nice and useful as possible for the use case we actually need it
> for.
>
> Best,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 20:00:03 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:00:03 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=5pTFZgkWm5L=u8gRc09ACSsC+4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=5pTFZgkWm5L=u8gRc09ACSsC+4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin2JwLA0qCUiH7JFHwk1Aiva+21uA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:24 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Let's not push all of this to the github files. ?Here is what I am thinking:
>
> * Prune older binary releases (pre 0.10).
> * Upload the newer binary+source releases and older source releases to
> github downloads.
> * See how big the rest of dist is and push that to the github files.
>

Well, it seems the alternative of archive.ipython.org is simpler: just
push everything we had in dist/ there and be done with it.  All new
releases would be archived there, but the official entry point would
be the github downloads area.

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 20:10:16 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:10:16 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> I think that the github wiki is a good option, mainly because (I
> think) it solves all of the problem of who can edit the wiki. ?Moin is

The github wikis don't have a search feature at all, that seems to be
a pretty major oversight to me... But I haven't played with them at
all in practice, so perhaps it's hidden somewhere.

> a nightmare for that and forces us to manage users by hand. ?Also, in

Well, what is really the nightmare?  Moin automatically manages user
creation, it's just that we made an ACL to restrict writing to members
of the WritersGroup.  That means that for a new user to get write
privileges, someone has to add them to this page:

http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/WritersGroup

Reading this:

http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/WritersGroup?action=info

This page has seen a total of 15 edits in the last three years, all by
me.  That hardly qualifies as a nightmare, and that's all there is to
it.  What else did you have in mind that's an actual, concrete problem
with Moin?

> my mind, github is not just for developers in that it hosts our issue
> and downloads which both are user focused.

That is true, though I think a class of user exists who just wants to
read some info on a simple wiki (and who might get confused by all the
UI controls at the top of every github wiki), that is different from
the user willing to file a bug report.

Basically what I'm saying is that I don't think github is the most
newbie-friendly wiki environment out there, given its lack of search
and the fact that all the Github-specific machinery remains exposed
always.

> But if we do want a separate wiki, I am -1 on Moin. ?I have not been
> impressed with it at all. ?We would have to go searching for
> alternatives...

I'm not particularly partial to it, but honestly I don't see what the
problem is either.  What specific problems do you have with it?  In my
mind the only real issue was spam, and with the WritersGroup trick it
simply vanished over three years ago.  As for the rest, it:

- supports reST natively (hugely important for us, so we can easily
move wiki content over to the docs).
- supports images and attachments
- is searchable
- we already know how to use it.

I'm not opposed to changing systems, but I would like to see concrete
problems with Moin that force us to change before we take that step
(which will cost us time).

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 20:29:54 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 01:29:54 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimT7wc85JHpuFOkpAYqg0t7htopbw@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 June 2011 01:10, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> That means that for a new user to get write
> privileges, someone has to add them to this page:
>
> http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/WritersGroup
>

FWIW, whatever system we end up with, I think we should allow any registered
(and captcha-ed) user to edit, except maybe for a couple of critical pages.
If editing's any harder than it needs to be, the content just ends up out of
date. If the software doesn't keep spam low enough that we can revert what
gets through, then we should consider switching to a system that can.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 20:37:52 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 17:37:52 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimT7wc85JHpuFOkpAYqg0t7htopbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimT7wc85JHpuFOkpAYqg0t7htopbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=cWpMTjwBns=bZkN5b8xLLaCxzAA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> FWIW, whatever system we end up with, I think we should allow any registered
> (and captcha-ed) user to edit, except maybe for a couple of critical pages.
> If editing's any harder than it needs to be, the content just ends up out of
> date. If the software doesn't keep spam low enough that we can revert what
> gets through, then we should consider switching to a system that can.

The reason we added that was precisely because we were having to spend
way too much time reverting stuff.  But the version of Moin on
scipy.org had no captcha, only registration.  Basically the balance
was:

- register plus email once to get added to the list, edit at will,
*zero* spam for three years.

- register only: endless spam.

I don't know where in that continuum of zero-to-infinite spam a
captcha system would put us.  Honestly, it doesn't seem to me that
asking people to send a single email for human authorization is a huge
burden that is really causing us to lose us a lot of contributors, and
it does cut *completely* the spam problem.  But perhaps it is causing
them to go away...

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 20:58:32 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 01:58:32 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=cWpMTjwBns=bZkN5b8xLLaCxzAA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimT7wc85JHpuFOkpAYqg0t7htopbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=cWpMTjwBns=bZkN5b8xLLaCxzAA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTini+-NuEcY=EdT_FM7DAwYoMBzV5w@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 June 2011 01:37, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> The reason we added that was precisely because we were having to spend
> way too much time reverting stuff.  But the version of Moin on
> scipy.org had no captcha, only registration.
>


Then this is a failure in the software. Newer versions of Moin seem to be
able to have CAPTCHAs, and there various other things you can do about spam:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam


> I don't know where in that continuum of zero-to-infinite spam a
> captcha system would put us.  Honestly, it doesn't seem to me that
> asking people to send a single email for human authorization is a huge
> burden that is really causing us to lose us a lot of contributors, and
> it does cut *completely* the spam problem.  But perhaps it is causing
> them to go away...
>

It's not so much that it's a burden. It's just that when you see a paragraph
that's out of date, or a broken link, or whatever, and you can click edit
and fix it immediately, people do (some people, anyway). If you've got to
set up an account, then get someone to give you edit permission...never
mind, there's better things to be getting on with. It's for a similar reason
that I advocate using an existing, popular site like Github. If I have to
register for a new account, or spend two minutes guessing which password I
chose for this site two years ago, the chances that I will bother decay
exponentially with the time I expect it to take.

Maybe this is a solution, if we have a ruby-capable server somewhere: have a
github wiki mirrored somewhere else, so we can link to it (read-only)
without the github branding.
http://smeagolrb.info/

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 10 21:10:27 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2011 18:10:27 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website - static files?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTini+-NuEcY=EdT_FM7DAwYoMBzV5w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikQRz97YsoCkuEGicgVO9bB8qXT2A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKnUQtxF-wLUk1Vh8o+PB-X=4Utg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=yvkVYJDNiAE972sM+uPW15CgmJQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8xmFpmSHQb7xFNbqx62dhErxmsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=khtykxmG24Enq3LQDHdFZwr3eLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=YXqh10MbZ-D+xgRj6BcqniY0Zzw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimT7wc85JHpuFOkpAYqg0t7htopbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=cWpMTjwBns=bZkN5b8xLLaCxzAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTini+-NuEcY=EdT_FM7DAwYoMBzV5w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=QXRrCbYYu6whJTTVMAB+htLrM6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 5:58 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Then this is a failure in the software. Newer versions of Moin seem to be
> able to have CAPTCHAs, and there various other things you can do about spam:
> http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:Combating_spam

Yes, that's certainly true (though that's a mediawiki page, similar
things apply to moin).  The moin on scipy.org is ancient, I'm sure
current versions at least have captcha (for the record, it might be
possible to enable it on the scipy moin, it's just that dealing with
so many old libraries there is too painful to consider).

>> I don't know where in that continuum of zero-to-infinite spam a
>> captcha system would put us. ?Honestly, it doesn't seem to me that
>> asking people to send a single email for human authorization is a huge
>> burden that is really causing us to lose us a lot of contributors, and
>> it does cut *completely* the spam problem. ?But perhaps it is causing
>> them to go away...
>
> It's not so much that it's a burden. It's just that when you see a paragraph
> that's out of date, or a broken link, or whatever, and you can click edit
> and fix it immediately, people do (some people, anyway). If you've got to
> set up an account, then get someone to give you edit permission...never
> mind, there's better things to be getting on with. It's for a similar reason
> that I advocate using an existing, popular site like Github. If I have to
> register for a new account, or spend two minutes guessing which password I
> chose for this site two years ago, the chances that I will bother decay
> exponentially with the time I expect it to take.

Yes, that's true.  I'm all for finding whatever balances ease of
use/contributions with burden on maintainers.  Because while it's very
important that we make it as easy as possible to contribute, we really
don't  have the time to be doing spam cleanup frequently.  We've had
users in the past who have kindly helped with that boring task, but
I'm not sure we want to rely on that, as I think that's a waste of
*anyone's* time, not just mine :)

> Maybe this is a solution, if we have a ruby-capable server somewhere: have a
> github wiki mirrored somewhere else, so we can link to it (read-only)
> without the github branding.
> http://smeagolrb.info/

We can use the dreamhost setup for that, though it's a simple shared
host with limited cpu quotas.  But I can't imagine that kind of static
mirroring being very cpu intensive.

Let's think what the requirements are for a wiki for us:

- reST support.
- images/attachments.
- search function
- spam control
- low barrier for new users to contribute (use existing authentication
or allow on-the-spot editing with good captcha or similar).
- ease of deployment and ongoing maintenance for the team (we have
preciously little time for all of this, so even moin loses big on this
front vs. github, which is already done).

What else?

With clear criteria we can see what meets which from the tools
available, and then decide on the best compromise (likely nothing will
be perfect on all).

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Sat Jun 11 08:07:55 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 13:07:55 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinvyw8aCasH4WpZBQRqXAVJ2-c+pA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinySpuRTvxRz2JTeWq8ZnOppAqmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9mrwgsxCoVET6qBNj4RHvT6emfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinR5TwTxY_SL0ns69iTNZv-8gyZyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1AwLxGT5kwPZrLvNsuQ5jUd3Wkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyw8aCasH4WpZBQRqXAVJ2-c+pA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Carl,

The live site is at http://ipython.org/ , and the source code is at
https://github.com/ipython/ipython-website .

In terms of the logo, I think the only visually distinctive thing about
IPython are the prompts, which inspired the existing IP[y] logo. We could
also have some reference to the yellow & blue Python logo (
http://python.org/), but on the other hand, we're pitching this as an
environment for data exploration and interactive computing in general, not
only as a Python shell.

I've CCed in the dev list - Carl has offered to design some sort of
banner-style logo for the top of our website (see the sites for matplotlib
and sphinx for examples). Any suggestions on what it should look like? Do we
have any theme it should fit in with?

Finally, don't spend too long doing this, because it's been suggested that
if IPython gets some funding, some of it might go on professional design for
this sort of thing. I understand that this isn't definite, though.

Thanks,
Thomas

On 11 June 2011 02:51, Carl Joseph Younger <carl.input at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Thomas ~ Can you send me a link to the new site, I can't find it in
> my inbox. Also, if you can provide a few pointers as to what you'd
> like for the banner and stuff, I'll have a look and see what I can do.
>
> All the best
> Carl
>
> On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:26 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks, Carl. I'm no designer, so unless someone else comes forwards
> about a
> > banner, I'll probably get back to you about it.
> >
> > Best wishes,
> > Thomas
> >
> > On 10 June 2011 01:00, Carl Joseph Younger <carl.input at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I might be able to help you with a banner, I'm just in the middle of
> >> something not fun with Google's blobstore API. If you haven't got it
> >> sorted in the next few days, give me a nudge and I'll put something
> >> together.
> >>
> >> Nice one
> >>
> >
> >
>
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From klonuo at gmail.com  Sat Jun 11 09:06:52 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo Umom)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:06:52 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinvyw8aCasH4WpZBQRqXAVJ2-c+pA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110611150650.80B3.B1C76292@gmail.com>

Hi, I just saw demo page, and please allow me to comments that Sphinx 
system looks great as always, but header on demo page does not look 
good. It's too dark with unnecessary gradient background image. 

Following Sphinx or matplotlib portal, with some graphic is good idea, 
and other is just try same colors as footer for header wrapper (together 
with 3/4px bottom border) 

Cheers


On 11.06.2011 14:07:55 Thomas Kluyver wrote:

> Hi Carl,
> 
> The live site is at http://ipython.org/ , and the source code is at
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython-website .
> 
> In terms of the logo, I think the only visually distinctive thing about
> IPython are the prompts, which inspired the existing IP[y] logo. We could
> also have some reference to the yellow & blue Python logo (
> http://python.org/), but on the other hand, we're pitching this as an
> environment for data exploration and interactive computing in general, not
> only as a Python shell.
> 
> I've CCed in the dev list - Carl has offered to design some sort of
> banner-style logo for the top of our website (see the sites for matplotlib
> and sphinx for examples). Any suggestions on what it should look like? Do we
> have any theme it should fit in with?
> 
> Finally, don't spend too long doing this, because it's been suggested that
> if IPython gets some funding, some of it might go on professional design for
> this sort of thing. I understand that this isn't definite, though.
> 
> Thanks,
> Thomas
> 


From takowl at gmail.com  Sat Jun 11 10:37:51 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 15:37:51 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110611150650.80B3.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinvyw8aCasH4WpZBQRqXAVJ2-c+pA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110611150650.80B3.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiki_LzgB5djuBDGvHyK8Fpit7Mytg@mail.gmail.com>

On 11 June 2011 14:06, Klonuo Umom <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, I just saw demo page, and please allow me to comments that Sphinx
> system looks great as always, but header on demo page does not look
> good. It's too dark with unnecessary gradient background image.
>

I agree the header could be better. Let's work this out when we've got a
banner logo, though.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Sat Jun 11 11:02:12 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 11 Jun 2011 08:02:12 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinySpuRTvxRz2JTeWq8ZnOppAqmAA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9mrwgsxCoVET6qBNj4RHvT6emfQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinR5TwTxY_SL0ns69iTNZv-8gyZyg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1AwLxGT5kwPZrLvNsuQ5jUd3Wkg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinvyw8aCasH4WpZBQRqXAVJ2-c+pA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin+7QNo9P2Vhs4zkQL3h+79D+i5Jg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=Q3gLfLYm20fMXBaXwAfT5_MkgdQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> In terms of the logo, I think the only visually distinctive thing about
> IPython are the prompts, which inspired the existing IP[y] logo. We could
> also have some reference to the yellow & blue Python logo
> (http://python.org/), but on the other hand, we're pitching this as an
> environment for data exploration and interactive computing in general, not
> only as a Python shell.
>
> I've CCed in the dev list - Carl has offered to design some sort of
> banner-style logo for the top of our website (see the sites for matplotlib
> and sphinx for examples). Any suggestions on what it should look like? Do we
> have any theme it should fit in with?

I've never had any graphics design talent, unfortunately, so all I can
do is thank those willing to help us on that front (it really is much
appreciated).  From the ideas side, though, I think it's worth opening
up beyond the prompts metaphor.  It's true that IPython is more of a
library/environment and up until now it was only a console app and the
twisted-based parallel code. That made it kind of hard to come up with
nice visually impacting logos that would directly resonate with the
project's everyday use. I think Min did a great job with the original
logo, which we've used for a few years.  But (hopefully Min or nobody
else will object) I'd be open to some fresh thinking on that front,
perhaps something can be designed that better conveys all the new
machinery and use cases we now have:

- terminal-based interactive work
- rich console (Qt) with control over the Python VM (as embodied by an
IPython kernel)
- web console/notebook
- lightweight parallel system, with interactive capabilities

I know that IPython isn't the easiest project to capture in a logo.
So go crazy with ideas, and please post anything you come up with for
review!  Many thanks in advance for this help.

Cheers,

f

ps - in the end, whatever image(s) are chosen should be committed to
the repo in inkscape-editable SVG format so they can be worked on with
fully open source tools always (it's OK if the author works with other
apps that may be better than inkscape, but the final version should be
editable with open tools).  For convenience, committing a couple of
PNG renders at various common resolutions is fine, so people using the
logos in everyday work don't have to re-render them all the time.


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Sun Jun 12 18:18:51 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:18:51 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>

Some feeedback on the current design:

* Some of the main elements that make the Sphinx design nice are missing:

- The navigation bar between the banner and the rest of the content is
not there.
- In the right panel, the nice colored boxes that divide the content
vertically are also gone.
- The vertical colored regions to the L and R of the content are gone.
 These nicely frame the content.

Can we *start* out using the default Sphinx template and then identify
things we want to change/customize for our purposes.  My preference
would be the following order:

1.  First address the content.  This would include getting the
navigation elements to point to our pages etc.
2.  Then come up with a custom color scheme.  There are a number of
online tools for helping pick color schemes.
3.  Then pick a font for "IPython" and create a banner based on that
and the color scheme.
4.  Only then start to make minor tweaks to the actual layout as needed.

I recommend this order of things, because the layout should be created
to support/frame the content, not the other way around.

Cheers,

Brian

On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
>
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>
> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before the
> 0.11 release.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> On 6 June 2011 13:03, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The website in my fork of Komal's repository is now (hopefully) up to date
>> and intact.
>>
>> https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>>
>> Cookbook, Developer zone, and Projects using IPython are, for now, links
>> pointing to the moin wiki. News is up to date, version numbers should be
>> correct, and the content on the homepage has been cut down. The favicon is a
>> bland placeholder until someone feels like designing a decent one.
>>
>> Please do build it and let me know if you spot any mistakes or omissions.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Sun Jun 12 18:22:16 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2011 15:22:16 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiky5Q8EqprmGOXEts3HdMD0NVP5Kg@mail.gmail.com>

For example:

http://colorschemedesigner.com/

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Some feeedback on the current design:
>
> * Some of the main elements that make the Sphinx design nice are missing:
>
> - The navigation bar between the banner and the rest of the content is
> not there.
> - In the right panel, the nice colored boxes that divide the content
> vertically are also gone.
> - The vertical colored regions to the L and R of the content are gone.
> ?These nicely frame the content.
>
> Can we *start* out using the default Sphinx template and then identify
> things we want to change/customize for our purposes. ?My preference
> would be the following order:
>
> 1. ?First address the content. ?This would include getting the
> navigation elements to point to our pages etc.
> 2. ?Then come up with a custom color scheme. ?There are a number of
> online tools for helping pick color schemes.
> 3. ?Then pick a font for "IPython" and create a banner based on that
> and the color scheme.
> 4. ?Only then start to make minor tweaks to the actual layout as needed.
>
> I recommend this order of things, because the layout should be created
> to support/frame the content, not the other way around.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I've put the built website up so it's easy to evaluate:
>>
>> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>>
>> Please have a look, and let me know of any broken links, out of date
>> information, and so on. I think it's an improvement on the moin wiki, so
>> barring any major problems, I'd hope it can go live alongside or before the
>> 0.11 release.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Thomas
>>
>> On 6 June 2011 13:03, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> The website in my fork of Komal's repository is now (hopefully) up to date
>>> and intact.
>>>
>>> https://github.com/takluyver/ipython-website
>>>
>>> Cookbook, Developer zone, and Projects using IPython are, for now, links
>>> pointing to the moin wiki. News is up to date, version numbers should be
>>> correct, and the content on the homepage has been cut down. The favicon is a
>>> bland placeholder until someone feels like designing a decent one.
>>>
>>> Please do build it and let me know if you spot any mistakes or omissions.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Thomas
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Sun Jun 12 19:01:55 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 00:01:55 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>

On 12 June 2011 23:18, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> - The navigation bar between the banner and the rest of the content is
> not there.
>

I don't think it would fit with what we're doing. Navigation links are on
the right. Arguably the most important part of this site is the 'menu' of
the various resources related to IPython - we can't cram that into a
horizontal bar, and splitting the links up would make it less clear.


> - In the right panel, the nice colored boxes that divide the content
> vertically are also gone.
> - The vertical colored regions to the L and R of the content are gone.
>  These nicely frame the content.
>

These are style choices embedded in the theme we're using, called 'agogo'.
It's easy enough to change each if you want to, but I'm not sure that they'd
particularly improve the appearance.

For reasons previously mentioned, I *don't* want this to look like other
Sphinx sites. We're using Sphinx here as a tool to separate content (the rst
files) from the layout, not to produce a documentation site. As long as the
layout works technically and aesthetically, I don't want to change it to be
more like the default Sphinx output. I'm quite happy to accept criticism on
the layout, but please don't start with an expectation of the standard
Sphinx layout.

> 1.  First address the content.  This would include getting the
> navigation elements to point to our pages etc.

I think all the links are already correct - please let me know if not.

> 2.  Then come up with a custom color scheme.  There are a number of
> online tools for helping pick color schemes.

I spent some time trying this (using Adobe Kuler), but eventually I decided
to leave it to someone with more artistic talent - possibly someone paid to
do it. That said, I don't think the colour scheme in agogo (grey, blue,
orange) is too ugly.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 14:05:35 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 11:05:35 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas,

On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 4:01 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12 June 2011 23:18, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> - The navigation bar between the banner and the rest of the content is
>> not there.
>
> I don't think it would fit with what we're doing. Navigation links are on
> the right. Arguably the most important part of this site is the 'menu' of
> the various resources related to IPython - we can't cram that into a
> horizontal bar, and splitting the links up would make it less clear.

I agree that the main navigation area is the R panel, but visually I
think we need the division between the banner and content that the
horizontal bar provides.  This is a common design element seen in many
website.  The horizontal navigation area can include a reduced set of
links (for example, on fperez.org, he just has a "Home" link).

In terms of splitting up the links, I think there are some natural
divisions on links:

* Internal links to other places on the website.
* Links to the "community": lists, github, wiki, IRC
* Downloads.
* Links to the documentation.

I think it does make sense to put the internal links in the horizontal
navigation bar, but there could be something else in this horizontal
divider.

Currently, these different types of links are all grouped together in
the R panel, which creates a disorganized look.  Splitting the R panel
vertically and using visual elements to partition the different types
of links makes sense - not because that is what Sphinx does by
default, but because it organizes the material in a way that helps
users.

>>
>> - In the right panel, the nice colored boxes that divide the content
>> vertically are also gone.
>> - The vertical colored regions to the L and R of the content are gone.
>> ?These nicely frame the content.
>
> These are style choices embedded in the theme we're using, called 'agogo'.
> It's easy enough to change each if you want to, but I'm not sure that they'd
> particularly improve the appearance.
>
> For reasons previously mentioned, I *don't* want this to look like other
> Sphinx sites. We're using Sphinx here as a tool to separate content (the rst
> files) from the layout, not to produce a documentation site. As long as the
> layout works technically and aesthetically, I don't want to change it to be
> more like the default Sphinx output. I'm quite happy to accept criticism on
> the layout, but please don't start with an expectation of the standard
> Sphinx layout.

This is what I meant to communicate: I don't think the current layout
works technically and aesthetically.  I am not particularly attached
to the Sphinx layout specifically.  The particular things the current
design is missing are:

* A horizontal divider between the banner and main content area.  I
don't particularly care that this has navigation links, but visually,
we need something to divide these areas.
* The width of the content needs to be made smaller than the browser
Window to frame the content.  Using an alternate color in the R and L
page margines is one option (what Sphinx does), but we could simply
leave it as white space.  With todays wide screen monitors, content
looks awkward if it spans the entire width of the Window - like
reading a book without margins.
* We need to use a single font for the entire website, not counting
the one used for the banner.  Mixing serif and sans-serif fonts
creates a look that is visually disjoint.
* The R panel needs to have vertical regions that are visually
separated that allow us to group different categories of links
together (internal, community, docs, downloads).  I don't care that we
use the same visual treatment that Sphinx does, but we need some
consistent way of organizing this content visually and logically.

I don't feel like these things will make the website look more like
Sphinx as these are techniques used by almost all well designed
websites out there.  My desire to revert back to the default Sphinx
layout is merely because it gives us a starting place that already has
these elements in place and then we can tweak them to make it look as
non-Sphinx-like as we want.

As a simple example, here is my website:

http://www.brianegranger.com/

It is is a WordPress site that uses a well-known commercial theme.
Note that it has all of these basic elements I am talking about, but
looks nothing like a Sphinx site.  Many more examples of these design
elements can be found on the web.

There are obviously other layout patterns we could use:

* L panel instead of R.
* Both L and R panels (we probably don't have enough material for 2 panels)
* Multiple columns of main content (I don't think our content is well
suited to this.).
* Put an image carousel below the banner for browsing screenshots.

>> 1. ?First address the content. ?This would include getting the
>> navigation elements to point to our pages etc.
>
> I think all the links are already correct - please let me know if not.
>
>> 2. ?Then come up with a custom color scheme. ?There are a number of
>> online tools for helping pick color schemes.
>
> I spent some time trying this (using Adobe Kuler), but eventually I decided
> to leave it to someone with more artistic talent - possibly someone paid to
> do it. That said, I don't think the colour scheme in agogo (grey, blue,
> orange) is too ugly.

I may have some time to give this a shot later today.

Cheers,

Brian

> Thanks,
> Thomas
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 14:55:24 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:55:24 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 June 2011 19:05, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> In terms of splitting up the links, I think there are some natural
> divisions on links:
>
> * Internal links to other places on the website.
> * Links to the "community": lists, github, wiki, IRC
> * Downloads.
> * Links to the documentation.
>
> I think it does make sense to put the internal links in the horizontal
> navigation bar, but there could be something else in this horizontal
> divider.
>

Alright, I'll look into choosing a subset of links to try putting in a
navbar.


>
> Currently, these different types of links are all grouped together in
> the R panel, which creates a disorganized look.  Splitting the R panel
> vertically and using visual elements to partition the different types
> of links makes sense - not because that is what Sphinx does by
> default, but because it organizes the material in a way that helps
> users.
>

I don't think there are such clear divisions - the wiki is between community
and documentation, github is between downloads and community, and the pages
on the website are kind of a miscellany - things which don't need to be on
the wiki, but don't quite belong in docs, like the FAQ.

At present, I've tried to divide links into a key group - docs, bug tracker,
mailing list, and so on, and a secondary group, with a gap between them.
Then the downloads and github links were pulled out to sit with the version
info at the top. I think subdividing them into more than 2-3 groups will
just make it slower to scan through them. I'll see if I can come up with a
better arrangement when I try the navbar.


> This is what I meant to communicate: I don't think the current layout
> works technically and aesthetically.
>

While there's room for improvement, I'm happy enough with the current layout
that I would prefer to build on it rather than reverting to the default
Sphinx output and starting afresh.


> * The width of the content needs to be made smaller than the browser
> Window to frame the content.  Using an alternate color in the R and L
> page margines is one option (what Sphinx does), but we could simply
> leave it as white space.  With todays wide screen monitors, content
> looks awkward if it spans the entire width of the Window - like
> reading a book without margins.
>

I know, and the width is already constrained, although maybe it should be a
bit narrower. The whole thing is limited to 80em, and the main text block to
60em. Obviously whether this fills the window depends on the width of your
monitor/window.


> * We need to use a single font for the entire website, not counting
> the one used for the banner.  Mixing serif and sans-serif fonts
> creates a look that is visually disjoint.
>

I'm sure I've seen serif titles used with sans-serif text elsewhere, but
I'll admit again that I'm not a designer, and agree to try your suggestion.

I'll fiddle with the layout a bit, and let you know when I've got a preview.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 18:23:36 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:23:36 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 14 June 2011 19:55, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'll fiddle with the layout a bit, and let you know when I've got a
> preview.


http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/

Using the banner Klonuo posted, and drawing inspiration from the page he
posted. Brian, is this closer to what you were expecting?

Specifically:
- The dark background to the header is gone
- Five links to pages on the same site have been brought up into a nav bar.
- The sidebar is divided by thin grey lines, and the bottom section of links
has its own heading
- The overall page width is reduced to 75em
- Headings are in the same font as the body text

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 19:02:00 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 16:02:00 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas,

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 3:23 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 14 June 2011 19:55, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'll fiddle with the layout a bit, and let you know when I've got a
>> preview.
>
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>
> Using the banner Klonuo posted, and drawing inspiration from the page he
> posted. Brian, is this closer to what you were expecting?

Awesome, I am really starting to like how this is shaping up!

> Specifically:
> - The dark background to the header is gone

This, along with the new banner design is a *massive* improvement!

> - Five links to pages on the same site have been brought up into a nav bar.

Yep, I like the formatting of these links as well and the "dot" separator.

> - The sidebar is divided by thin grey lines, and the bottom section of links
> has its own heading

This too looks fantastic - I like the thin grey lines.

> - The overall page width is reduced to 75em
> - Headings are in the same font as the body text

Again both of these are great as well.

Some minor comments:

* reduce max-width to something closer to 68-70.  With the current
font sizes, the page still looks slightly too "full" at 75em width.
* reduce the padding on sphinxsidebar to 1em and increase width to
14em to give us a bit more room to content in the sidebar.
* reduce div.document max-width to something around 55em.
* Overall I like the partition of link in the R sidepanel.  But I
think the "Links" section should only contain external links as it is
a bit odd to see a "link" to "Home" here.

I think we need to get Fernando's thoughts (hopefully tonight) and
then start to figure out a good color scheme and make final decisions
on the logo.

But this is a huge step forward - thanks everyone for putting time into this!

Cheers,

Brian

> Thanks,
> Thomas
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 14 19:17:25 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:17:25 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 00:02, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some minor comments:
>
> * reduce max-width to something closer to 68-70.  With the current
> font sizes, the page still looks slightly too "full" at 75em width.
> * reduce the padding on sphinxsidebar to 1em and increase width to
> 14em to give us a bit more room to content in the sidebar.
> * reduce div.document max-width to something around 55em.
> * Overall I like the partition of link in the R sidepanel.  But I
> think the "Links" section should only contain external links as it is
> a bit odd to see a "link" to "Home" here.
>

OK, I've sorted out all of these - thanks for the pointers. I'll deal with
the documentation landing page tomorrow.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From epatters at enthought.com  Tue Jun 14 21:52:46 2011
From: epatters at enthought.com (Evan Patterson)
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 20:52:46 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinQ-dmJaX1ZLzKKyj+TqHe9B2MsSQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 6:17 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 15 June 2011 00:02, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Some minor comments:
>>
>> * reduce max-width to something closer to 68-70.  With the current
>> font sizes, the page still looks slightly too "full" at 75em width.
>> * reduce the padding on sphinxsidebar to 1em and increase width to
>> 14em to give us a bit more room to content in the sidebar.
>> * reduce div.document max-width to something around 55em.
>> * Overall I like the partition of link in the R sidepanel.  But I
>> think the "Links" section should only contain external links as it is
>> a bit odd to see a "link" to "Home" here.
>>
>
> OK, I've sorted out all of these - thanks for the pointers. I'll deal with
> the documentation landing page tomorrow.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas


Brian is right, the webpage is really starting to look good.

Great work, Thomas!

Evan
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 03:18:22 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:18:22 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,

On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 4:17 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> OK, I've sorted out all of these - thanks for the pointers. I'll deal with
> the documentation landing page tomorrow.

I'm to far behind on lots of stuff to comment on this massive thread,
so just a few thoughts:

- The nav bar at the top (Home . Download ...) is great, but the font
for it should be larger, and/or boldfaced, I think.  Right now that
sort of gets lost between the  banner logo and the title.

- Perhaps a little more color somehwere?  I don't think we need to
turn the site into a circus tent, but it feels too bright white for my
taste, enough to actually feel a little blinding.  I think a small
amount of color, in moderation (and with visual balance helped by some
of the color scheme sites that have been mentioned), would look nice
and reduce the glare a little.  Just a thought.

- Search box? Since it's made in sphinx, we can leave the default
sphinx search and it will work inside the site automatically.


But even if you were to leave it as-is, it's such a massive
improvement already, that I can only cheer.

Many, many thanks to everyone who has helped here, this is great.

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 05:25:28 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:25:28 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimjar0=s6EfZ8eY6KrStC5PfVeRFQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=BxnbcH5TkPCxXpkRYs04GV9YJjg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikL-bjGLQUK2BBW0KFXsZNaaEB9Ew@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimrKMj8V=hi8y7yYzm3BoFrP0PoXw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 08:18, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> - The nav bar at the top (Home . Download ...) is great, but the font
> for it should be larger, and/or boldfaced, I think.  Right now that
> sort of gets lost between the  banner logo and the title.
>
> - Perhaps a little more color somehwere?  I don't think we need to
> turn the site into a circus tent, but it feels too bright white for my
> taste, enough to actually feel a little blinding.  I think a small
> amount of color, in moderation (and with visual balance helped by some
> of the color scheme sites that have been mentioned), would look nice
> and reduce the glare a little.  Just a thought.
>

I'll have a play with these.


> - Search box? Since it's made in sphinx, we can leave the default
> sphinx search and it will work inside the site automatically.


I not so convinced on this. There's relatively little content on this site
that we want to search, and people might expect that it would search inside
the docs as well. If we want a search box, I would use something like
Google's custom search engine, so that it covered the docs and the wiki. But
perhaps we should just let people go to a search engine themselves.
Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks for all the feedback everyone's sending,

Thomas
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From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun 15 11:53:10 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 08:53:10 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>

On 6/15/11 2:25 AM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> On 15 June 2011 08:18, Fernando Perez <fperez.net

>     - Search box? Since it's made in sphinx, we can leave the default
>     sphinx search and it will work inside the site automatically.
>
>
> I not so convinced on this. There's relatively little content on this
> site that we want to search, and people might expect that it would
> search inside the docs as well. If we want a search box, I would use
> something like Google's custom search engine, so that it covered the
> docs and the wiki. But perhaps we should just let people go to a search
> engine themselves. Thoughts, anyone?

You might look at the sagemath.org search box and the resulting page.  I 
believe it was Harald Schilly who implemented a very nice search 
interface.  I've CCd him on this email.

Harald: this is an ongoing discussion about revamping the ipython.org 
website.

Jason



From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 12:31:30 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:31:30 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinq6ENNGbvT=nysRTEQ3orAD5toDg@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 16:53, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:

> You might look at the sagemath.org search box and the resulting page.  I
> believe it was Harald Schilly who implemented a very nice search
> interface.  I've CCd him on this email.
>
> Harald: this is an ongoing discussion about revamping the ipython.org
> website.
>

Thanks, Jason.

I see that that's powered by Google. Was it much effort to set up? How many
sites does it cover?

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 12:32:50 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 09:32:50 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinq6ENNGbvT=nysRTEQ3orAD5toDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinq6ENNGbvT=nysRTEQ3orAD5toDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikg8S8MqhEDgN8AKY2nA9yyMC009A@mail.gmail.com>

http://www.google.com/cse/

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:31 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 June 2011 16:53, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:
>>
>> You might look at the sagemath.org search box and the resulting page. ?I
>> believe it was Harald Schilly who implemented a very nice search
>> interface. ?I've CCd him on this email.
>>
>> Harald: this is an ongoing discussion about revamping the ipython.org
>> website.
>
> Thanks, Jason.
>
> I see that that's powered by Google. Was it much effort to set up? How many
> sites does it cover?
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 12:38:07 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:38:07 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikg8S8MqhEDgN8AKY2nA9yyMC009A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinq6ENNGbvT=nysRTEQ3orAD5toDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikg8S8MqhEDgN8AKY2nA9yyMC009A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikG5fU-JOFR=hxqEsOsWsojx8tX-A@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 17:32, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.google.com/cse/


http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=017950022472296044740:wfr9nyfshwo

If we reckon it's a valuable approach, I'll spend more time customising it.
It could also search mailing list archives, which I haven't added at
present.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 13:32:39 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:32:39 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikG5fU-JOFR=hxqEsOsWsojx8tX-A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=x5Qu+9w2mAhNy-_EuzPU7CNefEg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikdS799N2jL-ngCHDOaM01jspdx5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinQFXqXfZETosnja7key5AQd0=nvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimX6gc=+piavQy5tWYEsXXX3jWjUA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=jNGEw-UvT3uHEdQDX6ohW=dvdTg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinC4ygBC8MvUVdLH-m6b3SwFyGq-Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksMFvSALj9vf686b6-QpXz_7MurA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=_eNEe_QJK-eE1PQoKFHL7r+Zi=Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinKo086AbY9mJxDDSE3ahMDyVi-tw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikHRBgHcQcwimEF=+yLqpXhBP5kwA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=FvBrmSoP1SQVfBP9tvxt6uZkO4A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=Xt1uW7_OBcsz9vFTKLo1w5VX4Tg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=4TYPdrccBBevE8wJNTkq-9unWNQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin51iiqGLBaf_ypb9eFOQsT67a18Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=+tUCZb6kpFmM-RiiV0PS-4Xo32A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinSufe2NeReu1iOMB2VDNMzsM_8bw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimFM9pc5ppm1jQWhUxsL_+MdohyHA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinfAOButAXpiCbc6SB4xZYhCTcTvQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF8D566.1070601@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTinq6ENNGbvT=nysRTEQ3orAD5toDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikg8S8MqhEDgN8AKY2nA9yyMC009A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikG5fU-JOFR=hxqEsOsWsojx8tX-A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin1-k4kQUxoqUydCVV_Qii3ZkP5Xw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:38 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> If we reckon it's a valuable approach, I'll spend more time customising it.
> It could also search mailing list archives, which I haven't added at
> present.

That would be excellent!

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 15:39:52 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:39:52 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] New favicon
Message-ID: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

I'm making a new topic for this because the old thread is moving so fast
it's hard for people to keep up with. Klonuo has been brainstorming favicons
for the new website, and we'd like to get feedback from more people. Take a
look at the examples in the attached image.

It's designed to tie in with a larger logo that we're working on at the same
time. I've attached a couple of example concepts to compare, but there are
plenty more if you hunt through the thread.

Issues we've been considering:
- The ][ is derived from a capital I for IPython. There are variations in
spacing and colour.
- The third bracket ] and the colon are from a concept for a logo, which has
the form ][Py] .
- The ][ is somewhat similar to a logo used in the 70s & 80s by Apple for
the Apple II series of computers.

So far, my favourites are A1 and B2 (despite the similarity in shape to
Apple's ][ ). Klonuo, can you post which you prefer?

Your thoughts are welcome, or you can send back different designs or
variants of any of these.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From klonuo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 15:51:51 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo Umom)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:51:51 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110615215149.8EA6.B1C76292@gmail.com>

Excellent move Thomas

favicon sheet looks great :) I prefer B1

as for logo I attached my coloring and spacing version as "][2.png"
which matches B1 favicon
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:06:58 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:06:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=0z=7DH+5M14tfwL9TLYA6mtVNrA@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Issues we've been considering:
> - The ][ is derived from a capital I for IPython. There are variations in
> spacing and colour.
> - The third bracket ] and the colon are from a concept for a logo, which has
> the form ][Py] .
> - The ][ is somewhat similar to a logo used in the 70s & 80s by Apple for
> the Apple II series of computers.

I have to say that I'm not crazy about the ][ yet, but I'm trying to
keep an open mind and it's slowly growing on me.  So you guys may be
onto something here :)

Of the three banners, I really don't like #2, and I'm ~50/50 on 1 and
3. The larger spacing between ][ in #1 is visually nicer, but I think
it moves away from an 'I' and ends up looking more like Apple's roman
II.  The one in #3 keeps the idea of the square brackets but almost
completely blends into the capital I of IPython.

So I guess that means I lean towards #3...

That would make B2 the preferred favicon then.

Cheers,

f
Cheers,

f


From ischnell at enthought.com  Wed Jun 15 16:10:46 2011
From: ischnell at enthought.com (Ilan Schnell)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:10:46 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello group,

how close is ipython 0.11 to being released.  I am hoping
to update to the new version in the upcoming EPD 7.1
release, which is scheduled for the end of June (which is
approaching quickly).

Thanks   Ilan


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:15:47 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:15:47 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>

It is our intention to release 0.11 by the end of June as well.

The last major change is under review now, and should be in master by the end of the week.

After that, all that should remain are some documentation, packaging, and Windows updates.

-MinRK

On Jun 15, 2011, at 13:10, Ilan Schnell <ischnell at enthought.com> wrote:

> Hello group,
> 
> how close is ipython 0.11 to being released.  I am hoping
> to update to the new version in the upcoming EPD 7.1
> release, which is scheduled for the end of June (which is
> approaching quickly).
> 
> Thanks   Ilan
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From ischnell at enthought.com  Wed Jun 15 16:20:00 2011
From: ischnell at enthought.com (Ilan Schnell)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:20:00 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
In-Reply-To: <BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikoieffeQPn-JgYNyGKp9VUKpR6fA@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for the quick reply.  I hope the timing works out.

- Ilan


On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 3:15 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> It is our intention to release 0.11 by the end of June as well.
>
> The last major change is under review now, and should be in master by the end of the week.
>
> After that, all that should remain are some documentation, packaging, and Windows updates.
>
> -MinRK
>
> On Jun 15, 2011, at 13:10, Ilan Schnell <ischnell at enthought.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello group,
>>
>> how close is ipython 0.11 to being released. ?I am hoping
>> to update to the new version in the upcoming EPD 7.1
>> release, which is scheduled for the end of June (which is
>> approaching quickly).
>>
>> Thanks ? Ilan
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:20:34 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:20:34 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks for putting this together.

For the favicons I like the B series best with B2 probably my top.

For the banners, I don't really like the ][: designs of 1 and 3 at
all, mainly because they are taking us away from our existing logo.  I
like the ][Py] design of 2, but prefer a small amount of space between
the ] and [.

I also still like our original IP[y]; design equally to 2.  I should
note that I am hoping we can come up with a logo/favicon that sticks
with the same basic design we already have, but improves it.  I know I
sound like a broken record, but I don't think we should get into a
full logo redesign at this point.

Cheers,

Brian


On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 12:39 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm making a new topic for this because the old thread is moving so fast
> it's hard for people to keep up with. Klonuo has been brainstorming favicons
> for the new website, and we'd like to get feedback from more people. Take a
> look at the examples in the attached image.
>
> It's designed to tie in with a larger logo that we're working on at the same
> time. I've attached a couple of example concepts to compare, but there are
> plenty more if you hunt through the thread.
>
> Issues we've been considering:
> - The ][ is derived from a capital I for IPython. There are variations in
> spacing and colour.
> - The third bracket ] and the colon are from a concept for a logo, which has
> the form ][Py] .
> - The ][ is somewhat similar to a logo used in the 70s & 80s by Apple for
> the Apple II series of computers.
>
> So far, my favourites are A1 and B2 (despite the similarity in shape to
> Apple's ][ ). Klonuo, can you post which you prefer?
>
> Your thoughts are welcome, or you can send back different designs or
> variants of any of these.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From epatters at enthought.com  Wed Jun 15 16:25:22 2011
From: epatters at enthought.com (Evan Patterson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:25:22 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
In-Reply-To: <BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DFE8CD1F-B358-4F4D-A1BF-B563756EE344@enthought.com>

I hope to knock out the last thing on my list this weekend. (That being the correct handling in the Qt console of output that arrives after the execution reply.)

Evan

On Jun 15, 2011, at 3:15 PM, Min RK wrote:

> It is our intention to release 0.11 by the end of June as well.
> 
> The last major change is under review now, and should be in master by the end of the week.
> 
> After that, all that should remain are some documentation, packaging, and Windows updates.
> 
> -MinRK
> 
> On Jun 15, 2011, at 13:10, Ilan Schnell <ischnell at enthought.com> wrote:
> 
>> Hello group,
>> 
>> how close is ipython 0.11 to being released.  I am hoping
>> to update to the new version in the upcoming EPD 7.1
>> release, which is scheduled for the end of June (which is
>> approaching quickly).
>> 
>> Thanks   Ilan
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev



From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:34:48 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:34:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>

Howdy,

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> For the banners, I don't really like the ][: designs of 1 and 3 at
> all, mainly because they are taking us away from our existing logo. ?I
> like the ][Py] design of 2, but prefer a small amount of space between
> the ] and [.
>
> I also still like our original IP[y]; design equally to 2. ?I should
> note that I am hoping we can come up with a logo/favicon that sticks
> with the same basic design we already have, but improves it. ?I know I
> sound like a broken record, but I don't think we should get into a
> full logo redesign at this point.

The fact that we've gone in exactly opposite directions with our vote
is then probably a good indication to stay put.  We should only make a
full change on this if we're all convinced we love the new one.
Otherwise, staying closer to what we have should win.

I'm OK staying with the current logo too.  Perhaps this has been
rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
change the font to one where the I has serifs?  That seems to be the
main limitation of the current one to me, as I do like the idea of the
serifed I matching visually the [].

Just a thought...

f


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:40:39 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 13:40:39 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=++La=Q00rBBHkpwy6qNrbQvnA4g@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> For the banners, I don't really like the ][: designs of 1 and 3 at
>> all, mainly because they are taking us away from our existing logo. ?I
>> like the ][Py] design of 2, but prefer a small amount of space between
>> the ] and [.
>>
>> I also still like our original IP[y]; design equally to 2. ?I should
>> note that I am hoping we can come up with a logo/favicon that sticks
>> with the same basic design we already have, but improves it. ?I know I
>> sound like a broken record, but I don't think we should get into a
>> full logo redesign at this point.
>
> The fact that we've gone in exactly opposite directions with our vote
> is then probably a good indication to stay put. ?We should only make a
> full change on this if we're all convinced we love the new one.
> Otherwise, staying closer to what we have should win.

Yes, this is why I have been hesitant to get into a more complete
redesign.  The search space increases dramatically and reaching a
final result that everyone likes will be a much more lengthy process.

> I'm OK staying with the current logo too. ?Perhaps this has been
> rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
> digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
> change the font to one where the I has serifs? ?That seems to be the
> main limitation of the current one to me, as I do like the idea of the
> serifed I matching visually the [].

I do like to "refreshing" of the IP[y]: design that has been done with
the new font and the corresponding banner.  Are other people OK with
this?  I also think changing the colors to match the color scheme we
pick for the website makes sense.

Cheers,

Brian

> Just a thought...
>
> f
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From klonuo at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 16:49:14 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo Umom)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:49:14 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110615224912.8EAC.B1C76292@gmail.com>

On 15.06.2011 22:34:48 Fernando Perez wrote:

> The fact that we've gone in exactly opposite directions with our vote
> is then probably a good indication to stay put.  We should only make a
> full change on this if we're all convinced we love the new one.
> Otherwise, staying closer to what we have should win.
> 
> I'm OK staying with the current logo too.  Perhaps this has been
> rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
> digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
> change the font to one where the I has serifs?  That seems to be the
> main limitation of the current one to me, as I do like the idea of the
> serifed I matching visually the [].
> 
> Just a thought...

We were discussing also that in "IP[y]:" IP associates too much on 
vastly used term IP (Internet protocol) and all it's derivations. To no 
surprise there is already IPy module for Python which does exactly that 
- Internet protocols. Then we (I) also discussed about braking term "Py" 
in "IP[y]:" or necessity to use such term in logo at all. 

Thinking about favicon and logo at same time as making website does not 
seem strange to me. Previous logo can't be put in favicon if that 
matters anything. Even if not, after these days tries, old logo seems 
weary now to me and it sure wont fit in new coloring scheme which I 
understand is to be prepared. 

I tried to summarise what I read this two days, without trying to impose 
anything. I'm fine with whatever you decide


Cheers


From epatters at enthought.com  Wed Jun 15 16:54:09 2011
From: epatters at enthought.com (Evan Patterson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:54:09 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=++La=Q00rBBHkpwy6qNrbQvnA4g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=++La=Q00rBBHkpwy6qNrbQvnA4g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <9143FED3-2BA4-4056-94B7-55E3DFA29D24@enthought.com>

On Jun 15, 2011, at 3:40 PM, Brian Granger wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy,
>> 
>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> For the banners, I don't really like the ][: designs of 1 and 3 at
>>> all, mainly because they are taking us away from our existing logo.  I
>>> like the ][Py] design of 2, but prefer a small amount of space between
>>> the ] and [.
>>> 
>>> I also still like our original IP[y]; design equally to 2.  I should
>>> note that I am hoping we can come up with a logo/favicon that sticks
>>> with the same basic design we already have, but improves it.  I know I
>>> sound like a broken record, but I don't think we should get into a
>>> full logo redesign at this point.
>> 
>> The fact that we've gone in exactly opposite directions with our vote
>> is then probably a good indication to stay put.  We should only make a
>> full change on this if we're all convinced we love the new one.
>> Otherwise, staying closer to what we have should win.
> 
> Yes, this is why I have been hesitant to get into a more complete
> redesign.  The search space increases dramatically and reaching a
> final result that everyone likes will be a much more lengthy process.
> 
>> I'm OK staying with the current logo too.  Perhaps this has been
>> rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
>> digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
>> change the font to one where the I has serifs?  That seems to be the
>> main limitation of the current one to me, as I do like the idea of the
>> serifed I matching visually the [].
> 
> I do like to "refreshing" of the IP[y]: design that has been done with
> the new font and the corresponding banner.  Are other people OK with
> this?  I also think changing the colors to match the color scheme we
> pick for the website makes sense.

I prefer the "refresh" of the IP[y] design to both the old version and the ][ business. The new color scheme is definitely an improvement, but I think the ][ simply looks strange.

Evan

From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 17:38:00 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:38:00 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 21:34, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'm OK staying with the current logo too.  Perhaps this has been
> rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
> digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
> change the font to one where the I has serifs?
>

It started off with that, then we just wandered on to other possibilities.

I like the ][ form because it's fairly unambiguous (I think it's
sufficiently distinctive from Apple's), and is easily made into a
recognisable favicon. There's nothing obvious to do with the IP[y] logo at
16x16 pixels, and it could carry the 'IP' connotations Klonuo mentioned.
(Aside: it's really tricky, trying to look at the logo as if I'd never seen
it before.)

If we want to just update the IP[y] design, does anyone have any good ideas
for the favicon? Something like group C above? My plain 'IPy' favicon is
only intended as a placeholder.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 17:59:13 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 22:59:13 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
In-Reply-To: <BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimmFdbBzY1q6nJMVRMohZKFXMZXtg@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 21:15, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> After that, all that should remain are some documentation, packaging, and
> Windows updates.


Critical bugs (i.e. blockers for 0.11):

- 79 and 175 are about config - I assume they'll both be closed when the
newapp work is merged in
- 8 and 66 are docs related
- 340, 351, 369, 378, 481 are Windows specific things to sort out.

Pull requests:
Most can wait until after the release
- newapp (454) is going in soon
- I'd quite like to get the changes to traitlets strings (462) in, so that
the Python 3 port is closer to the main version for release.
- The changes to keybindings for the Qt console (496) should be simple once
the config stuff is in place.

Anything else? Are there any of the 12 high-priority bugs (or any others)
that really ought to be blockers?

Thanks,
Thomas
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From carl.input at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:13:09 2011
From: carl.input at gmail.com (Carl Joseph Younger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:13:09 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTiksrWbDzoL_FAM+NRQ8Rm-07gOyCQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think Even's right about the ][ looking strange. I'm not sure what
you guys are trying to do, but it aint working. I don't want to sound
arrogant, I just want to be frank ~ the artwork offered here sucks.
The site itself is looking really nice and the new text in the banner
looks good, but on the branding side of things, it's just crazy.

I posted an attempt at a logo, it went nowhere, I can live with that,
but I'm totally lost as to what to try next as there seems to be some
kind of commitment to having that classic, mathematical community look
~ much like the old site.

matplotlib's banner is ok, you wouldn't knock it if your saw it, but
it's not a benchmark by any stretch?

I really do want to help, but I just don't know what to aim for. I'll
attach my logo here again ~ indulge me please ~ can anyone tell me
where I'm going wrong. I really thought this logo was going to go down
a treat.

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:38 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15 June 2011 21:34, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm OK staying with the current logo too. ?Perhaps this has been
>> rehashed already (the previous thread had more than I was able to
>> digest, forgive me), but why not keep the current one and simply
>> change the font to one where the I has serifs?
>
> It started off with that, then we just wandered on to other possibilities.
>
> I like the ][ form because it's fairly unambiguous (I think it's
> sufficiently distinctive from Apple's), and is easily made into a
> recognisable favicon. There's nothing obvious to do with the IP[y] logo at
> 16x16 pixels, and it could carry the 'IP' connotations Klonuo mentioned.
> (Aside: it's really tricky, trying to look at the logo as if I'd never seen
> it before.)
>
> If we want to just update the IP[y] design, does anyone have any good ideas
> for the favicon? Something like group C above? My plain 'IPy' favicon is
> only intended as a placeholder.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:14:04 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:14:04 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimnhr40JfyYDV4=RJFqzoenr=vsMQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 2:38 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> I like the ][ form because it's fairly unambiguous (I think it's
> sufficiently distinctive from Apple's), and is easily made into a
> recognisable favicon. There's nothing obvious to do with the IP[y] logo at
> 16x16 pixels, and it could carry the 'IP' connotations Klonuo mentioned.
> (Aside: it's really tricky, trying to look at the logo as if I'd never seen
> it before.)
>

One drawback of the ][ is that the prompts don't really look like that, it's
just a play with brackets and the letter I.

BTW, the IP connotation doesn't bother me in the slightest, we've had
IPython with that spelling for so long that I have no problem with a bit of
a name collision.  It's impossible today to avoid all name collisions in any
case...

Sorry, I'll need to tune out again of this conversation at the worst
possible time, but real job calls (more like yells)...

It seems to me that, given the lack of any clear consensus/happiness on new
ideas, a conservative approach should win.

And honestly, if we simply keep what we have it won't be the end of the
world: having a clean website we can update easily and control with git is
the major win here, we don't need to burn too many cycles on the banner
business.

Much more importantly: we're starting to get close to release time deadline,
and I think our energies would be better spent on that...  I'm drowning in
deadlines (some that will benefit ipython majorly if they work out, but
those are longer term), so what little time I have for this now I'll spend
on getting us closer to release.

Cheers,

f
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:34:40 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:34:40 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTiksrWbDzoL_FAM+NRQ8Rm-07gOyCQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTiksrWbDzoL_FAM+NRQ8Rm-07gOyCQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik0ORcvyeA26KzafmSu_3pDwmDaTg@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 23:13, Carl Joseph Younger <carl.input at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think Even's right about the ][ looking strange. I'm not sure what
> you guys are trying to do, but it aint working. I don't want to sound
> arrogant, I just want to be frank ~ the artwork offered here sucks.
> The site itself is looking really nice and the new text in the banner
> looks good, but on the branding side of things, it's just crazy.
>

Thanks for your input, Carl. I think perhaps your artistic tastes are a bit
different to most of the people commenting here. I think we're going for a
more minimalistic look. Your logo is technically impressive, but (speaking
for myself at least), the extra elements and colours look somewhat
distracting.

I agree matplotlib's logo isn't perhaps a perfect example. Perhaps Sphinx's
banner shows better the sort of thing we're aiming for:
http://sphinx.pocoo.org/

Fernando:
> It seems to me that, given the lack of any clear consensus/happiness on
new ideas, a conservative approach should win.

OK. Does anyone want to have a crack at a favicon to fit in with that?

This is the advantage of having a BDFL. These questions get resolved and we
can get on. ;-)

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:35:37 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:35:37 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
Message-ID: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
refactor.  The result is in this branch:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp

The changes are massive and affect all of the top level applications.
A pretty solid code review has been done, but before we merge this, it
would be fantastic if we could have other people help try it out.
Somethings to look at:

* The top level applications:

ipython -h
ipcluster -h

* Subcommands:

ipython profile
ipython qtconsole
ipcluster start

* Command line options and flags (see the help strings).
* Creation and selection of profiles.
* Editing config files

Any help would be greatly appreciated!  And thanks to Min for doing
such a great job.

Cheers,

Brian

-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun 15 18:41:30 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:41:30 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User]  New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimnhr40JfyYDV4=RJFqzoenr=vsMQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimnhr40JfyYDV4=RJFqzoenr=vsMQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DF9351A.9030101@creativetrax.com>

On 6/15/11 3:14 PM, Fernando Perez wrote:
> Much more importantly: we're starting to get close to release time
> deadline, and I think our energies would be better spent on that...  I'm
> drowning in deadlines (some that will benefit ipython majorly if they
> work out, but those are longer term), so what little time I have for
> this now I'll spend on getting us closer to release.

+1.  We are eagerly waiting for 0.11/0.12/1.0.  Much more eager about 
that than the new website, as pretty and wonderful as the new website is.

Thanks,

Jason




From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:45:43 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 15:45:43 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 release date
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimmFdbBzY1q6nJMVRMohZKFXMZXtg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=khejQ-75pJZqiArm=Wdv2mfcUDg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BCD94CC9-728C-4470-BEA3-3E7CFBC9CC9A@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimmFdbBzY1q6nJMVRMohZKFXMZXtg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikxsS01puVPutmSmF_uUv7u6zfZRw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 14:59, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 15 June 2011 21:15, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> After that, all that should remain are some documentation, packaging, and
>> Windows updates.
>
>
> Critical bugs (i.e. blockers for 0.11):
>
> - 79 and 175 are about config - I assume they'll both be closed when the
> newapp work is merged in
>

These are both resolved in newapp


> - 8 and 66 are docs related
>




> - 340, 351, 369, 378, 481 are Windows specific things to sort out.


I've been looking at some of these - several of them are *make sure it
works* things that may not need any work.


>
> Pull requests:
> Most can wait until after the release
> - newapp (454) is going in soon
>

Yes it is, in the next day or two.


> - I'd quite like to get the changes to traitlets strings (462) in, so that
> the Python 3 port is closer to the main version for release.
>

Yes, me too - as soon as newapp is merged, we should be able to get it in
quite quickly (the various CStr traits in parallel will become Bytes, and
use ObjectName various places that it is appropriate).


> - The changes to keybindings for the Qt console (496) should be simple once
> the config stuff is in place.
>

Not *super* simple, as the way the keybindings are written is not well
suited to modular key-combos.  I don't expect this to make it in by 0.11,
but it will be very nice.


>
> Anything else? Are there any of the 12 high-priority bugs (or any others)
> that really ought to be blockers?
>

514 won't be fixed, but we should come up with a message somewhere to help
prevent confusion.
478 only affects python 3
I think Evan said he is going to get to 476 this weekend
451 is resolved in newapp
Nobody has been able to reproduce 440 as far as I know, so it can slip if we
don't figure it out...
371 should be a small fix, but the cause is rare
136 and 124 both have to do with embedding, and I am not familiar with that
code.  Right now, embedding just doesn't work I think.
I think 131 and 29 are really the same, and addressed as part of your Pickle
PR that we will save for 0.12
13 is vague, and I don't think anything *needs* to be done for 0.11.

-MinRK


>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 18:47:07 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 23:47:07 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <4DF9351A.9030101@creativetrax.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimnhr40JfyYDV4=RJFqzoenr=vsMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF9351A.9030101@creativetrax.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=uEuJ73Ov=gsztdbu_f7sKKed-Yw@mail.gmail.com>

On 15 June 2011 23:41, Jason Grout <jason-sage at creativetrax.com> wrote:

> +1.  We are eagerly waiting for 0.11/0.12/1.0.  Much more eager about
> that than the new website, as pretty and wonderful as the new website is.
>

Agreed, that's the important thing. I started doing the website while I was
waiting for the release - I hadn't expected so much discussion about it.

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 19:19:09 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 16:19:09 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, please do test, as I don't doubt there are still tweaks that need
to be made.

A screenshot of the most exciting consequence of hooking up the config
stuff to the qtconsole:

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9314/screenshot20110615at155.png

$> ipython qtconsole pylab=inline ConsoleWidget.font_family="Comic Sans MS"

-MinRK

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 15:35, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
> refactor. ?The result is in this branch:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp
>
> The changes are massive and affect all of the top level applications.
> A pretty solid code review has been done, but before we merge this, it
> would be fantastic if we could have other people help try it out.
> Somethings to look at:
>
> * The top level applications:
>
> ipython -h
> ipcluster -h
>
> * Subcommands:
>
> ipython profile
> ipython qtconsole
> ipcluster start
>
> * Command line options and flags (see the help strings).
> * Creation and selection of profiles.
> * Editing config files
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated! ?And thanks to Min for doing
> such a great job.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 19:33:40 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 00:33:40 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 June 2011 00:19, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> A screenshot of the most exciting consequence of hooking up the config
> stuff to the qtconsole:


The goggles, they do nothing ;-)

More seriously:
- ipython profile does nothing - should a command like that print out a
brief usage message, like when you get the arguments wrong for many command
line programs
- ipcluster start throws an error, I don't know if this is something in my
setup:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/bin/ipcluster", line 18, in
<module>
    launch_new_instance()
  File
"/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/parallel/apps/ipclusterapp.py",
line 438, in launch_new_instance
    app = IPBaseParallelApplication.instance()
NameError: global name 'IPBaseParallelApplication' is not defined

I'll do more testing soon, hopefully.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 20:24:38 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:24:38 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] New favicon
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=uEuJ73Ov=gsztdbu_f7sKKed-Yw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinfjBUaOBUMi-N0Hv2-hK80bxANqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=Uv9f-Kg39o0SSCaBUaaNGTn=sg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTing-gwkm3OiOhi8cXpXsd7+Cp4efA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=j4iFCFcB6+kubb4j9id5dxcjd7A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimnhr40JfyYDV4=RJFqzoenr=vsMQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DF9351A.9030101@creativetrax.com>
	<BANLkTi=uEuJ73Ov=gsztdbu_f7sKKed-Yw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=xN+LhKsQq1dzvJx5WKknZ25t2iQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Agreed, that's the important thing. I started doing the website while I was
> waiting for the release - I hadn't expected so much discussion about it.

Not trying to sound ungrateful to the new participants who have
pitched in on this topic (really, we *do* appreciate your interest and
contributions), but what happens is that a website/logo is something
everybody can have an opinion on, while fixing the last nasty critical
bugs for release is not.  So the moment this opens up, lots of people
jump in :)

This shows us there's genuine interest in ipython, and that's great.
But I think we've burned enough cycles on this for now, we can always
revisit it later and I think that we already have what we needed: a
git-controlled website that looks nice (perhaps not awesome, but
perfectly nice) and that we can easily update with tools we like (aka
sphinx).  The rest of the polish can come later, as a celebratory gift
to ourselves once we push a few releases.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 20:27:47 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:27:47 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimrfyC8V9ajtF-osVz8STDxX3hnQQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 4:19 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> A screenshot of the most exciting consequence of hooking up the config
> stuff to the qtconsole:
>
> http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/9314/screenshot20110615at155.png
>
>>gt; ipython qtconsole pylab=inline ConsoleWidget.font_family="Comic Sans MS"

You know, people go to hell for far lesser offences...

:)

f


From satra at mit.edu  Wed Jun 15 20:31:47 2011
From: satra at mit.edu (Satrajit Ghosh)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 20:31:47 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] profiles + enthought traits
Message-ID: <BANLkTin3VZnaxC2E5qB7PrjcUP1b3L0w4w@mail.gmail.com>

hi guys,

do you already have a built in profile to suppress the additional fields of
traits? if not is there a doc pointer somewhere i can use to create a new
profile for ipy:xi (eye-pixie - that's my name for your new release :) )?

cheers,

satra
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 20:39:58 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:39:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] profiles + enthought traits
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin3VZnaxC2E5qB7PrjcUP1b3L0w4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin3VZnaxC2E5qB7PrjcUP1b3L0w4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTincgUqX582nvnhBv7CwjaOPC6gsyQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Satrajit Ghosh <satra at mit.edu> wrote:
> hi guys,
>
> do you already have a built in profile to suppress the additional fields of
> traits? if not is there a doc pointer somewhere i can use to create a new
> profile for ipy:xi (eye-pixie - that's my name for your new release :) )?

You just need to save it from deathrow by updating it to work with 0.11:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/deathrow/ipy_traits_completer.py

I see a pull request in your future...

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 20:42:21 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:42:21 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 16:33, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 16 June 2011 00:19, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> A screenshot of the most exciting consequence of hooking up the config
>> stuff to the qtconsole:
>
> The goggles, they do nothing ;-)
>
> More seriously:
> - ipython profile does nothing - should a command like that print out a
> brief usage message, like when you get the arguments wrong for many command
> line programs
> - ipcluster start throws an error, I don't know if this is something in my
> setup:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/bin/ipcluster", line 18, in
> <module>
> ??? launch_new_instance()
> ? File
> "/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/parallel/apps/ipclusterapp.py",
> line 438, in launch_new_instance
> ??? app = IPBaseParallelApplication.instance()
> NameError: global name 'IPBaseParallelApplication' is not defined

Right - there was some renaming and find/replacing in the last couple
of commits, and I didn't run every script.  Both of these are fixed
now - `ipython profile` without a subcommand prints its usage, just
like ipcluster.

>
> I'll do more testing soon, hopefully.
>
> Thomas
>


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 22:09:39 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:09:39 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Error in newapp with ipcluster
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=S10mORkiMHeHwLA8oPF7b9c+SGA@mail.gmail.com>

I get the following behavior in newapp:

(ipython-0.11)[laptop:ipython]$ ipcluster -h
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Users/bgranger/Documents/Computation/virtualenv/ipython-0.11/bin/ipcluster",
line 8, in <module>
    load_entry_point('ipython==0.11.dev', 'console_scripts', 'ipcluster')()
  File "/Users/bgranger/Documents/Computation/IPython/code/ipython/IPython/parallel/apps/ipclusterapp.py",
line 438, in launch_new_instance
    app = IPBaseParallelApplication.instance()
NameError: global name 'IPBaseParallelApplication' is not defined

Cheers,

Brian

-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From kevin.buchs at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 22:09:39 2011
From: kevin.buchs at gmail.com (Kevin Buchs)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:09:39 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] gitting newapp
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=M69nKPr2Tup8D9CkSFF+EyVKhLw@mail.gmail.com>

I am interested in helping out with testing newapp. The screenshot
looks great. However, I am very new to git. I tried to fetch and clone
from this https URL, but that is not working. The page that is brought
up when I open it into a browser gives me a git command which clones
the whole ipython tree, but there is nothing called newapp in that.
So, a pointer or two, please.

> Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
> refactor. ?The result is in this branch:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp

- Kevin Buchs


From epatters at enthought.com  Wed Jun 15 22:14:14 2011
From: epatters at enthought.com (Evan Patterson)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 21:14:14 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] gitting newapp
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=M69nKPr2Tup8D9CkSFF+EyVKhLw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=M69nKPr2Tup8D9CkSFF+EyVKhLw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTim=TUDKjbRfXvbVZaMotiw4tLL1TA@mail.gmail.com>

After cloning the IPython repo using the link provided by GitHub, navigate
to the root of the repository and execute 'git checkout newapp'.

Evan

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Kevin Buchs <kevin.buchs at gmail.com> wrote:

> I am interested in helping out with testing newapp. The screenshot
> looks great. However, I am very new to git. I tried to fetch and clone
> from this https URL, but that is not working. The page that is brought
> up when I open it into a browser gives me a git command which clones
> the whole ipython tree, but there is nothing called newapp in that.
> So, a pointer or two, please.
>
> > Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
> > refactor. ?The result is in this branch:
> >
> > https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp
>
> - Kevin Buchs
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 15 22:18:34 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2011 19:18:34 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Error in newapp with ipcluster
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=S10mORkiMHeHwLA8oPF7b9c+SGA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=S10mORkiMHeHwLA8oPF7b9c+SGA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikfQJ7tGRvkedndtiDNZmMOpM6t7w@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 19:09, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> I get the following behavior in newapp:
>
> (ipython-0.11)[laptop:ipython]$ ipcluster -h
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ?File "/Users/bgranger/Documents/Computation/virtualenv/ipython-0.11/bin/ipcluster",
> line 8, in <module>
> ? ?load_entry_point('ipython==0.11.dev', 'console_scripts', 'ipcluster')()
> ?File "/Users/bgranger/Documents/Computation/IPython/code/ipython/IPython/parallel/apps/ipclusterapp.py",
> line 438, in launch_new_instance
> ? ?app = IPBaseParallelApplication.instance()
> NameError: global name 'IPBaseParallelApplication' is not defined

This was fixed an hour or so ago.

>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From erik.tollerud at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 03:50:33 2011
From: erik.tollerud at gmail.com (Erik Tollerud)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 03:50:33 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>

Maybe I've just missed something really obvious, but when I pull the
newapp branch and do either "python setup.py build" or "python
setup.py develop", it fails with this message:

error: package directory 'IPython/config/default' does not exist

And the build or install gives up at that point.

(This is on OS X 10.6, although it's not clear to me that that's relevant...)


On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 8:42 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 16:33, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 16 June 2011 00:19, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> A screenshot of the most exciting consequence of hooking up the config
>>> stuff to the qtconsole:
>>
>> The goggles, they do nothing ;-)
>>
>> More seriously:
>> - ipython profile does nothing - should a command like that print out a
>> brief usage message, like when you get the arguments wrong for many command
>> line programs
>> - ipcluster start throws an error, I don't know if this is something in my
>> setup:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> ? File "/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/bin/ipcluster", line 18, in
>> <module>
>> ??? launch_new_instance()
>> ? File
>> "/home/thomas/Code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/parallel/apps/ipclusterapp.py",
>> line 438, in launch_new_instance
>> ??? app = IPBaseParallelApplication.instance()
>> NameError: global name 'IPBaseParallelApplication' is not defined
>
> Right - there was some renaming and find/replacing in the last couple
> of commits, and I didn't run every script. ?Both of these are fixed
> now - `ipython profile` without a subcommand prints its usage, just
> like ipcluster.
>
>>
>> I'll do more testing soon, hopefully.
>>
>> Thomas
>>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Erik Tollerud


From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 05:34:13 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:34:13 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] gitting newapp
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTim=TUDKjbRfXvbVZaMotiw4tLL1TA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTi=M69nKPr2Tup8D9CkSFF+EyVKhLw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTim=TUDKjbRfXvbVZaMotiw4tLL1TA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=uocEBPRrOjL35ifO9K+uKc1bkHA@mail.gmail.com>

You can also click the 'Downloads' button in github and get a tarball of the
tip of the branch you're looking at. But when it's changing rapidly, it's
easier to stay up to date by cloning the repo.

Thomas

On 16 June 2011 03:14, Evan Patterson <epatters at enthought.com> wrote:

> After cloning the IPython repo using the link provided by GitHub, navigate
> to the root of the repository and execute 'git checkout newapp'.
>
> Evan
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 9:09 PM, Kevin Buchs <kevin.buchs at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I am interested in helping out with testing newapp. The screenshot
>> looks great. However, I am very new to git. I tried to fetch and clone
>> from this https URL, but that is not working. The page that is brought
>> up when I open it into a browser gives me a git command which clones
>> the whole ipython tree, but there is nothing called newapp in that.
>> So, a pointer or two, please.
>>
>> > Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
>> > refactor. ?The result is in this branch:
>> >
>> > https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp
>>
>> - Kevin Buchs
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>
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From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 06:03:08 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 11:03:08 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>

On 16 June 2011 08:50, Erik Tollerud <erik.tollerud at gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe I've just missed something really obvious, but when I pull the
> newapp branch and do either "python setup.py build" or "python
> setup.py develop", it fails with this message:
>
> error: package directory 'IPython/config/default' does not exist
>

I got that too. It looks like it was down to the recent commit which made
the default config autogenerated. There was a line in setupbase.py which
referenced that package. With that line changed, it installs for me, so I've
pushed the change to the newapp branch.

Thomas
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From tdimiduk at physics.harvard.edu  Thu Jun 16 10:57:24 2011
From: tdimiduk at physics.harvard.edu (Tom Dimiduk)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 10:57:24 -0400
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DFA19D4.6090707@physics.harvard.edu>

The new qtconsole crashes on ubuntu 11.04 (see below).  This crash 
clears right up when I upgrade to pyqmq version 2.1.7, but the app 
thinks it can run with pyzmq 2.0.10-1 and I got this crash with ubuntu 
packaged 2.0.10.1-1 so I thought you might like to know.

-----

[tdimiduk at kBt:~|284]$ ipython qtconsole
Starting the kernel at pid: 14841
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AttributeError                               Python 2.7.1+: /usr/bin/python
                                                    Thu Jun 16 10:22:19 2011
A problem occured executing Python code.  Here is the sequence of function
calls leading up to the error, with the most recent (innermost) call last.
/usr/local/bin/ipython in <module>()
       1 #!/usr/bin/python
       2 """Terminal-based IPython entry point.
       3
       4 Note: this is identical to 
IPython/frontend/terminal/scripts/ipython for now.
       5 Once 0.11 is closer to release, we will likely need to 
reorganize the script
       6 entry points."""
       7
       8 from IPython.frontend.terminal.ipapp import launch_new_instance
       9
---> 10 launch_new_instance()
         global launch_new_instance = <function launch_new_instance at 
0x26c38c0>

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.pyc 
in launch_new_instance()
     336     """Load the default config file from the default ipython_dir.
     337
     338     This is useful for embedded shells.
     339     """
     340     if ipython_dir is None:
     341         ipython_dir = get_ipython_dir()
     342     profile_dir = os.path.join(ipython_dir, 'profile_default')
     343     cl = PyFileConfigLoader(default_config_file_name, profile_dir)
     344     config = cl.load_config()
     345     return config
     346
     347
     348 def launch_new_instance():
     349     """Create and run a full blown IPython instance"""
     350     app = TerminalIPythonApp.instance()
--> 351     app.initialize()
     352     app.start()
     353
     354
     355 if __name__ == '__main__':
     356     launch_new_instance()
     357

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.pyc 
in initialize(self=<IPython.frontend.terminal.ipapp.TerminalIPythonApp 
object>, argv=None)
     244     def _force_interact_changed(self, name, old, new):
     245         if new:
     246             self.interact = True
     247
     248     def _file_to_run_changed(self, name, old, new):
     249         if new and not self.force_interact:
     250                 self.interact = False
     251     _code_to_run_changed = _file_to_run_changed
     252
     253     # internal, not-configurable
     254     interact=Bool(True)
     255
     256
     257     def initialize(self, argv=None):
     258         """Do actions after construct, but before starting the 
app."""
--> 259         super(TerminalIPythonApp, self).initialize(argv)
     260         if self.subapp is not None:
     261             # don't bother initializing further, starting subapp
     262             return
     263         if not self.ignore_old_config:
     264             check_for_old_config(self.ipython_dir)
     265         # print self.extra_args
     266         if self.extra_args:
     267             self.file_to_run = self.extra_args[0]
     268         # create the shell
     269         self.init_shell()
     270         # and draw the banner
     271         self.init_banner()
     272         # Now a variety of things that happen after the banner 
is printed.
     273         self.init_gui_pylab()
     274         self.init_extensions()

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/core/application.pyc in 
initialize(self=<IPython.frontend.terminal.ipapp.TerminalIPythonApp 
object>, argv=None)
     265             else:
     266                 self.stage_default_config_file()
     267
     268     def stage_default_config_file(self):
     269         """auto generate default config file, and stage it into 
the profile."""
     270         s = self.generate_config_file()
     271         fname = os.path.join(self.profile_dir.location, 
self.config_file_name)
     272         if self.overwrite or not os.path.exists(fname):
     273             self.log.warn("Generating default config file: 
%r"%(fname))
     274             with open(fname, 'w') as f:
     275                 f.write(s)
     276
     277
     278     def initialize(self, argv=None):
     279         self.init_crash_handler()
--> 280         self.parse_command_line(argv)
     281         if self.subapp is not None:
     282             # stop here if subapp is taking over
     283             return
     284         cl_config = self.config
     285         self.init_profile_dir()
     286         self.init_config_files()
     287         self.load_config_file()
     288         # enforce cl-opts override configfile opts:
     289         self.update_config(cl_config)
     290

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/config/application.pyc in 
parse_command_line(self=<IPython.frontend.terminal.ipapp.TerminalIPythonApp 
object>, argv=['qtconsole'])
     300         self.__class__.clear_instance()
     301         # instantiate
     302         self.subapp = subapp.instance()
     303         # and initialize subapp
     304         self.subapp.initialize(argv)
     305
     306     def parse_command_line(self, argv=None):
     307         """Parse the command line arguments."""
     308         argv = sys.argv[1:] if argv is None else argv
     309
     310         if self.subcommands and len(argv) > 0:
     311             # we have subcommands, and one may have been specified
     312             subc, subargv = argv[0], argv[1:]
     313             if re.match(r'^\w(\-?\w)*$', subc) and subc in 
self.subcommands:
     314                 # it's a subcommand, and *not* a flag or class 
parameter
--> 315                 return self.initialize_subcommand(subc, subargv)
     316
     317         if '-h' in argv or '--help' in argv or '--help-all' in 
argv:
     318             self.print_description()
     319             self.print_help('--help-all' in argv)
     320             self.exit(0)
     321
     322         if '--version' in argv:
     323             self.print_version()
     324             self.exit(0)
     325
     326         loader = KeyValueConfigLoader(argv=argv, 
aliases=self.aliases,
     327                                         flags=self.flags)
     328         try:
     329             config = loader.load_config()
     330         except ArgumentError as e:

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/config/application.pyc in 
initialize_subcommand(self=<IPython.frontend.terminal.ipapp.TerminalIPythonApp 
object>, subc='qtconsole', argv=[])
     289         # events.
     290         self.config = newconfig
     291
     292     def initialize_subcommand(self, subc, argv=None):
     293         """Initialize a subcommand with argv."""
     294         subapp,help = self.subcommands.get(subc)
     295
     296         if isinstance(subapp, basestring):
     297             subapp = import_item(subapp)
     298
     299         # clear existing instances
     300         self.__class__.clear_instance()
     301         # instantiate
     302         self.subapp = subapp.instance()
     303         # and initialize subapp
--> 304         self.subapp.initialize(argv)
     305
     306     def parse_command_line(self, argv=None):
     307         """Parse the command line arguments."""
     308         argv = sys.argv[1:] if argv is None else argv
     309
     310         if self.subcommands and len(argv) > 0:
     311             # we have subcommands, and one may have been specified
     312             subc, subargv = argv[0], argv[1:]
     313             if re.match(r'^\w(\-?\w)*$', subc) and subc in 
self.subcommands:
     314                 # it's a subcommand, and *not* a flag or class 
parameter
     315                 return self.initialize_subcommand(subc, subargv)
     316
     317         if '-h' in argv or '--help' in argv or '--help-all' in 
argv:
     318             self.print_description()
     319             self.print_help('--help-all' in argv)

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/console/qtconsoleapp.pyc 
in 
initialize(self=<IPython.frontend.qt.console.qtconsoleapp.IPythonQtConsoleApp 
object>, argv=[])
     383             # defaults to change
     384             widget.set_default_style()
     385
     386         if self.stylesheet:
     387             # we got an expicit stylesheet
     388             if os.path.isfile(self.stylesheet):
     389                 with open(self.stylesheet) as f:
     390                     sheet = f.read()
     391                 widget.style_sheet = sheet
     392                 widget._style_sheet_changed()
     393             else:
     394                 raise IOError("Stylesheet %r not 
found."%self.stylesheet)
     395
     396     def initialize(self, argv=None):
     397         super(IPythonQtConsoleApp, self).initialize(argv)
--> 398         self.init_kernel_manager()
     399         self.init_qt_elements()
     400         self.init_colors()
     401
     402     def start(self):
     403
     404         # draw the window
     405         self.window.show()
     406
     407         # Start the application main loop.
     408         self.app.exec_()
     409
     410 
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     411 # Main entry point
     412 
#-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
     413

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/console/qtconsoleapp.pyc 
in 
init_kernel_manager(self=<IPython.frontend.qt.console.qtconsoleapp.IPythonQtConsoleApp 
object>)
     303         signal.signal(signal.SIGINT, signal.SIG_DFL)
     304
     305         # Create a KernelManager and start a kernel.
     306         self.kernel_manager = QtKernelManager(
     307                                 shell_address=(self.ip, 
self.shell_port),
     308                                 sub_address=(self.ip, 
self.iopub_port),
     309                                 stdin_address=(self.ip, 
self.stdin_port),
     310                                 hb_address=(self.ip, self.hb_port),
     311                                 config=self.config
     312         )
     313         # start the kernel
     314         if not self.existing:
     315             kwargs = dict(ip=self.ip, ipython=not self.pure)
     316             kwargs['extra_arguments'] = self.kernel_argv
     317             self.kernel_manager.start_kernel(**kwargs)
--> 318         self.kernel_manager.start_channels()
     319
     320
     321     def init_qt_elements(self):
     322         # Create the widget.
     323         self.app = QtGui.QApplication([])
     324         local_kernel = (not self.existing) or self.ip in LOCAL_IPS
     325         self.widget = self.widget_factory(config=self.config,
     326                                         local_kernel=local_kernel)
     327         self.widget.kernel_manager = self.kernel_manager
     328         self.window = MainWindow(self.app, self.widget, 
self.existing,
     329                                 may_close=local_kernel,
     330                                 confirm_exit=self.confirm_exit)
     331         self.window.setWindowTitle('Python' if self.pure else 
'IPython')
     332
     333     def init_colors(self):

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/kernelmanager.pyc 
in 
start_channels(self=<IPython.frontend.qt.kernelmanager.QtKernelManager 
object>, *args=(), **kw={})
     200
     201     #------ Kernel process management 
------------------------------------------
     202
     203     def start_kernel(self, *args, **kw):
     204         """ Reimplemented for proper heartbeat management.
     205         """
     206         if self._shell_channel is not None:
     207             self._shell_channel.reset_first_reply()
     208         super(QtKernelManager, self).start_kernel(*args, **kw)
     209
     210     #------ Channel management 
-------------------------------------------------
     211
     212     def start_channels(self, *args, **kw):
     213         """ Reimplemented to emit signal.
     214         """
--> 215         super(QtKernelManager, self).start_channels(*args, **kw)
     216         self.started_channels.emit()
     217
     218     def stop_channels(self):
     219         """ Reimplemented to emit signal.
     220         """
     221         super(QtKernelManager, self).stop_channels()
     222         self.stopped_channels.emit()
     223
     224     @property
     225     def shell_channel(self):
     226         """ Reimplemented for proper heartbeat management.
     227         """
     228         if self._shell_channel is None:
     229             self._shell_channel = super(QtKernelManager, 
self).shell_channel
     230 
self._shell_channel.first_reply.connect(self._first_reply)

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/zmq/kernelmanager.pyc in 
start_channels(self=<IPython.frontend.qt.kernelmanager.QtKernelManager 
object>, shell=True, sub=True, stdin=True, hb=True)
     718         # atexit.register(self.context.term)
     719
     720 
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     721     # Channel management methods:
     722 
#--------------------------------------------------------------------------
     723
     724     def start_channels(self, shell=True, sub=True, stdin=True, 
hb=True):
     725         """Starts the channels for this kernel.
     726
     727         This will create the channels if they do not exist and 
then start
     728         them. If port numbers of 0 are being used (random 
ports) then you
     729         must first call :method:`start_kernel`. If the channels 
have been
     730         stopped and you call this, :class:`RuntimeError` will 
be raised.
     731         """
     732         if shell:
--> 733             self.shell_channel.start()
     734         if sub:
     735             self.sub_channel.start()
     736         if stdin:
     737             self.stdin_channel.start()
     738         if hb:
     739             self.hb_channel.start()
     740
     741     def stop_channels(self):
     742         """Stops all the running channels for this kernel.
     743         """
     744         if self.shell_channel.is_alive():
     745             self.shell_channel.stop()
     746         if self.sub_channel.is_alive():
     747             self.sub_channel.stop()
     748         if self.stdin_channel.is_alive():

AttributeError: 'QtKernelManager' object has no attribute 'shell_channel'

**********************************************************************
Oops, ipython-qtconsole crashed. We do our best to make it stable, but...

A crash report was automatically generated with the following information:
   - A verbatim copy of the crash traceback.
   - A copy of your input history during this session.
   - Data on your current ipython-qtconsole configuration.

It was left in the file named:
	'/home/tdimiduk/.config/ipython/Crash_report_ipython-qtconsole.txt'
If you can email this file to the developers, the information in it will 
help
them in understanding and correcting the problem.

You can mail it to: None at None
with the subject 'ipython-qtconsole Crash Report'.

If you want to do it now, the following command will work (under Unix):
mail -s 'ipython-qtconsole Crash Report' None < 
/home/tdimiduk/.config/ipython/Crash_report_ipython-qtconsole.txt

To ensure accurate tracking of this issue, please file a report about it at:
None

Hit <Enter> to quit this message (your terminal may 
close):---------------------------------------------------------------------------
AttributeError                            Traceback (most recent call last)
/home/tdimiduk/<string> in <module>()

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/zmq/ipkernel.pyc in main()
     666     """Run an IPKernel as an application"""
     667     app = IPKernelApp.instance()
--> 668     app.initialize()
     669     app.start()
     670

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/zmq/ipkernel.pyc in 
initialize(self=<IPython.zmq.ipkernel.IPKernelApp object>, argv=None)
     600     )
     601     def initialize(self, argv=None):
--> 602         super(IPKernelApp, self).initialize(argv)
     603         self.init_shell()
     604         self.init_extensions()

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/zmq/kernelapp.pyc in 
initialize(self=<IPython.zmq.ipkernel.IPKernelApp object>, argv=None)
     201         self.init_session()
     202         self.init_poller()
--> 203         self.init_sockets()
     204         self.init_io()
     205         self.init_kernel()

/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/IPython/zmq/kernelapp.pyc in 
init_sockets(self=<IPython.zmq.ipkernel.IPKernelApp object>)
     132         # Create a context, a session, and the kernel sockets.
     133         io.raw_print("Starting the kernel at pid:", os.getpid())
--> 134         context = zmq.Context.instance()
     135         # Uncomment this to try closing the context.
     136         # atexit.register(context.term)

AttributeError: type object 'zmq.core.context.Context' has no attribute 
'instance'

On 06/15/2011 06:35 PM, Brian Granger wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Min has done an absolutely fantastic job in finishing the config
> refactor.  The result is in this branch:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/tree/newapp
>
> The changes are massive and affect all of the top level applications.
> A pretty solid code review has been done, but before we merge this, it
> would be fantastic if we could have other people help try it out.
> Somethings to look at:
>
> * The top level applications:
>
> ipython -h
> ipcluster -h
>
> * Subcommands:
>
> ipython profile
> ipython qtconsole
> ipcluster start
>
> * Command line options and flags (see the help strings).
> * Creation and selection of profiles.
> * Editing config files
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!  And thanks to Min for doing
> such a great job.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 14:56:27 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:56:27 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] profiles + enthought traits
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTincgUqX582nvnhBv7CwjaOPC6gsyQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin3VZnaxC2E5qB7PrjcUP1b3L0w4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTincgUqX582nvnhBv7CwjaOPC6gsyQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itdjkr$q14$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/15/11 7:39 PM, Fernando Perez wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 5:31 PM, Satrajit Ghosh<satra at mit.edu>  wrote:
>> hi guys,
>>
>> do you already have a built in profile to suppress the additional fields of
>> traits? if not is there a doc pointer somewhere i can use to create a new
>> profile for ipy:xi (eye-pixie - that's my name for your new release :) )?
>
> You just need to save it from deathrow by updating it to work with 0.11:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/deathrow/ipy_traits_completer.py
>
> I see a pull request in your future...

Ideally, it wouldn't load without Traits being loaded. I previously posted an 
idea for implementing that, though I didn't get any feedback. Is this something 
worth my implementing?

http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2011-May/007527.html

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From fperez.net at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 16:19:28 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:19:28 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] profiles + enthought traits
In-Reply-To: <itdjkr$q14$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <BANLkTin3VZnaxC2E5qB7PrjcUP1b3L0w4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTincgUqX582nvnhBv7CwjaOPC6gsyQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<itdjkr$q14$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=rj+JWwPebNKQSp5OPgaTaHzMYgA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ideally, it wouldn't load without Traits being loaded. I previously posted an
> idea for implementing that, though I didn't get any feedback. Is this something
> worth my implementing?
>
> http://mail.scipy.org/pipermail/ipython-dev/2011-May/007527.html

Replied there to keep the thread/context consistent.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 16:18:58 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 13:18:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> There's a general problem for writing package-specific extensions to IPython.
> Namely, you want to be able to write and enable an extension to IPython that
> provides special behavior for particular objects, say numpy arrays, without
> requiring that a particular package be imported at startup. You can often get by
> in ad hoc ways. For example, in the pretty-printing code, I added the ability to
> register deferred type-checking. For magic functions, you can usually just do
> local imports inside the magics.
>
> However, I've had an idea for a general solution.

I'm kind of -1 on this approach right now, mostly because I really
don't want to add more special paths to our execution logic.  Instead,
we have already the ability for users to register any function they
desire to execute afterwards:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py#L689

So my suggestion would be for this to be done by the user as a
post-execute function.  We can certainly provide it pre-canned to
eliminate the need for users to rewrite boilerplate, but I'd rather
keep the main run* methods as tight as they can reasonably be in the
main codebase.

How does that sound?


f


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 17:16:08 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 16:16:08 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/16/11 3:18 PM, Fernando Perez wrote:
> On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> There's a general problem for writing package-specific extensions to IPython.
>> Namely, you want to be able to write and enable an extension to IPython that
>> provides special behavior for particular objects, say numpy arrays, without
>> requiring that a particular package be imported at startup. You can often get by
>> in ad hoc ways. For example, in the pretty-printing code, I added the ability to
>> register deferred type-checking. For magic functions, you can usually just do
>> local imports inside the magics.
>>
>> However, I've had an idea for a general solution.
>
> I'm kind of -1 on this approach right now, mostly because I really
> don't want to add more special paths to our execution logic.  Instead,
> we have already the ability for users to register any function they
> desire to execute afterwards:
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py#L689
>
> So my suggestion would be for this to be done by the user as a
> post-execute function.  We can certainly provide it pre-canned to
> eliminate the need for users to rewrite boilerplate, but I'd rather
> keep the main run* methods as tight as they can reasonably be in the
> main codebase.

What would the user experience look like in this scenario?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 17:22:19 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 22:22:19 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>

Some more thoughts about newapp:

- If I do 'ipython -h', I get a long block of text sent back. How simple
would it be to feed that into a pager (as 'man x' and 'git log' do) for
easier viewing?
- It would be good to have tab completion for the various subcommands &
options. In Ubuntu, /etc/bash_completions.d/ is the relevant place. Anyone
good at shell scripting? We should probably chat with packagers about this.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 16 19:51:55 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:51:55 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
Message-ID: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>

J?rgen's found that there's still a unicode problem in trunk, which I don't
think can be completely resolved, but we'd like to get some more opinions on
it.

The issue is that, while we can parse Python code as either unicode or
bytes, there's no way to indicate what encoding is used in either case. So:
1. If we parse as unicode, non-ascii characters which occur inside byte
literals are always interpreted as bytes by encoding with utf-8. This is
what we now do in trunk.
2. If we parse as bytes, bytes occurring inside unicode literals are always
interpreted as characters by decoding with cp1252.

The necessary parameter is not going to be included in Python, because it's
not a problem in Python 3: http://bugs.python.org/issue5911

The practical upshot is platform dependent:
1 will always work correctly when the user enters u"???" (unicode literals),
and will coincidentally work with byte literals where the terminal uses
utf-8 (as I believe most Linux and Mac terminals do).
2 will always work as you'd expect when the user enters "???" (bytes
literals), and will coincidentally work with unicode literals where the
terminal uses cp1252 (Windows computers in English speaking countries and
parts of Europe).

I'm fairly confident that 1 is the better approach - it's critical that you
can enter those characters as part of a unicode string, but less so that you
can enter them in a byte string. Also, most of our users are on Linux or
Mac, so it should 'just work' for more people.

The question is whether we want to try to include a workaround for other
cases. Where stdin_encoding is cp1252, we could encode each cell as cp1252
before parsing it. That would then behave as expected in the two commonest
situations (UTF-8 unix terminals and cp1252 windows terminals). On the
downside, it's an horrendously ugly hack, and I don't know what it would do
on platforms other than CPython. J?rgen also suggested making it an option,
although I wonder how many people will ever find it.

My own inclination is simply to say that non-ascii characters will be
interpreted correctly in unicode literals, but their behaviour in byte
literals is undefined, and you should use the '\xe9' notation to write bytes
above 127. Note that Python 3 actually enforces this rule: b"?" is a
SyntaxError. But I'd like to collect some more thoughts, or see if we can
come up with a way to avoid the problem (short of writing our own parser).

Thanks for reading this - it took me a while to properly understand the
problem, so I hope I've explained it clearly.

Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 00:08:44 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 21:08:44 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinQHKEKyNskfFX89O=3EKkKAFgWeg@mail.gmail.com>

Thomas,

Thanks for summarizing this.  Is this the type of thing that we would
want to add a config=True attribute to InteractiveShell to control
this behavior?  We could default to (1), but allow (2) if needed.

Cheers,

Brian



On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> J?rgen's found that there's still a unicode problem in trunk, which I don't
> think can be completely resolved, but we'd like to get some more opinions on
> it.
>
> The issue is that, while we can parse Python code as either unicode or
> bytes, there's no way to indicate what encoding is used in either case. So:
> 1. If we parse as unicode, non-ascii characters which occur inside byte
> literals are always interpreted as bytes by encoding with utf-8. This is
> what we now do in trunk.
> 2. If we parse as bytes, bytes occurring inside unicode literals are always
> interpreted as characters by decoding with cp1252.
>
> The necessary parameter is not going to be included in Python, because it's
> not a problem in Python 3: http://bugs.python.org/issue5911
>
> The practical upshot is platform dependent:
> 1 will always work correctly when the user enters u"???" (unicode literals),
> and will coincidentally work with byte literals where the terminal uses
> utf-8 (as I believe most Linux and Mac terminals do).
> 2 will always work as you'd expect when the user enters "???" (bytes
> literals), and will coincidentally work with unicode literals where the
> terminal uses cp1252 (Windows computers in English speaking countries and
> parts of Europe).
>
> I'm fairly confident that 1 is the better approach - it's critical that you
> can enter those characters as part of a unicode string, but less so that you
> can enter them in a byte string. Also, most of our users are on Linux or
> Mac, so it should 'just work' for more people.
>
> The question is whether we want to try to include a workaround for other
> cases. Where stdin_encoding is cp1252, we could encode each cell as cp1252
> before parsing it. That would then behave as expected in the two commonest
> situations (UTF-8 unix terminals and cp1252 windows terminals). On the
> downside, it's an horrendously ugly hack, and I don't know what it would do
> on platforms other than CPython. J?rgen also suggested making it an option,
> although I wonder how many people will ever find it.
>
> My own inclination is simply to say that non-ascii characters will be
> interpreted correctly in unicode literals, but their behaviour in byte
> literals is undefined, and you should use the '\xe9' notation to write bytes
> above 127. Note that Python 3 actually enforces this rule: b"?" is a
> SyntaxError. But I'd like to collect some more thoughts, or see if we can
> come up with a way to avoid the problem (short of writing our own parser).
>
> Thanks for reading this - it took me a while to properly understand the
> problem, so I hope I've explained it clearly.
>
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 02:39:46 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 23:39:46 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 4:51 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> My own inclination is simply to say that non-ascii characters will be
> interpreted correctly in unicode literals, but their behaviour in byte
> literals is undefined, and you should use the '\xe9' notation to write bytes
> above 127. Note that Python 3 actually enforces this rule: b"?" is a
> SyntaxError. But I'd like to collect some more thoughts, or see if we can
> come up with a way to avoid the problem (short of writing our own parser).
>
> Thanks for reading this - it took me a while to properly understand the
> problem, so I hope I've explained it clearly.

Many thanks for the excellent summary, Thomas.

I concur with you, both because (even if slightly less convenient in
py2 due to needing the explicit u prefix) it's semantically consistent
with how unicode objects work, and because of it being the natural
path for py3.

I guess we could make it a configurable option, but I'm not even sure
it's worth the added complexity, so I'm mildly -1 on going down that
road, unless I can be convinced that the implementation isn't that
complicated and that there's really a *major* usability win for
certain users for whom the default is just too annoying to bear.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 02:45:33 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2011 23:45:33 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikhsFz17D+LWh=tXT9K_QvSzeLokw@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> What would the user experience look like in this scenario?

Since the config file is executed when IPython isn't fully up yet,
it's not the place to put code that depends on IPython itself, that's
why we have the exec_files field.  So I have in my config file this:

c.Global.exec_files = ['extras.py']

and extras.py is a simple python file where I do

ip = get_ipython()

and then call whatever I need on that object.  So in this case, you could write:

ip = get_ipython()
ip.register_post_execute(yourfunc)

where yourfunc is defined to be precisely the little blurb of code you
suggested, that does the deferred module hooking.  yourfunc is any
callable, so you could have something like

handler = DeferredHandler()
...
handler.register('numpy', my_numpy_formatter)
handler.register('traits', my_traits_completer)

...

ip.register_post_execute(handler.execution_hook)

or whatever method in this object implements the logic you suggested.

I realize there's a tiny bit more work here, but I think the bulk of
the boilerplate can be packaged in an easy to use way, and instead of
adding special-case code to one of the most sensitive codepaths we
have, we'd be reusing a generic mechanism we have.

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 06:24:11 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:24:11 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik+i7ZE9F4B8QLYLvgY8ZEEbtVseg@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 June 2011 07:39, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> I guess we could make it a configurable option, but I'm not even sure
> it's worth the added complexity, so I'm mildly -1 on going down that
> road, unless I can be convinced that the implementation isn't that
> complicated and that there's really a *major* usability win for
> certain users for whom the default is just too annoying to bear.
>

The complexity in terms of code is fairly minimal - a boolean config
variable, and an if/else inside run_cell should cover it. The main downside
would be the added load on testing and maintenance - if the variable became
widely used, any bug report relating to unicode would leave us asking which
way the user had it set.

I'll leave it to J?rgen to put the case for usability.

In fact, I've just worked out a way round the issue, although it's not
pretty. If we were to encode each cell, and prepend the "# coding: <enc>"
magic comment before parsing it, it seems to work. However, the line numbers
within the cell are then out by 1 (i.e. if you see a traceback). As far as I
can tell, there's no way to store this state between compile/parse calls -
codeop.Compile doesn't remember it. I don't much like the idea of doing
this, though.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 13:04:55 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:04:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikhsFz17D+LWh=tXT9K_QvSzeLokw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTikhsFz17D+LWh=tXT9K_QvSzeLokw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimV7FniiGC6006mCdmAtqOGc8UoyA@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What would the user experience look like in this scenario?
>
> Since the config file is executed when IPython isn't fully up yet,
> it's not the place to put code that depends on IPython itself, that's
> why we have the exec_files field. ?So I have in my config file this:

But wait, extensions are loaded later when IPython has come up fully.
Why not put this logic in the extension itself.  IOW, have the
extension call:

ip.register_post_execute(yourfunc)

that would fully keep all of the logic localized in the extension as
it should be.

Brian

> c.Global.exec_files = ['extras.py']
>
> and extras.py is a simple python file where I do
>
> ip = get_ipython()
>
> and then call whatever I need on that object. ?So in this case, you could write:
>
> ip = get_ipython()
> ip.register_post_execute(yourfunc)
>
> where yourfunc is defined to be precisely the little blurb of code you
> suggested, that does the deferred module hooking. ?yourfunc is any
> callable, so you could have something like
>
> handler = DeferredHandler()
> ...
> handler.register('numpy', my_numpy_formatter)
> handler.register('traits', my_traits_completer)
>
> ...
>
> ip.register_post_execute(handler.execution_hook)
>
> or whatever method in this object implements the logic you suggested.
>
> I realize there's a tiny bit more work here, but I think the bulk of
> the boilerplate can be packaged in an easy to use way, and instead of
> adding special-case code to one of the most sensitive codepaths we
> have, we'd be reusing a generic mechanism we have.
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 13:08:04 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:08:04 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik+i7ZE9F4B8QLYLvgY8ZEEbtVseg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik+i7ZE9F4B8QLYLvgY8ZEEbtVseg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimJ1AL_F1miM2TS=NkA-7u6xYfkHg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 17 June 2011 07:39, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I guess we could make it a configurable option, but I'm not even sure
>> it's worth the added complexity, so I'm mildly -1 on going down that
>> road, unless I can be convinced that the implementation isn't that
>> complicated and that there's really a *major* usability win for
>> certain users for whom the default is just too annoying to bear.
>
> The complexity in terms of code is fairly minimal - a boolean config
> variable, and an if/else inside run_cell should cover it. The main downside
> would be the added load on testing and maintenance - if the variable became
> widely used, any bug report relating to unicode would leave us asking which
> way the user had it set.
>
> I'll leave it to J?rgen to put the case for usability.
>
> In fact, I've just worked out a way round the issue, although it's not
> pretty. If we were to encode each cell, and prepend the "# coding: <enc>"
> magic comment before parsing it, it seems to work. However, the line numbers
> within the cell are then out by 1 (i.e. if you see a traceback). As far as I
> can tell, there's no way to store this state between compile/parse calls -
> codeop.Compile doesn't remember it. I don't much like the idea of doing
> this, though.

This sounds too complex.  I would say let's just go with (1).

Cheers,

Brian

> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 14:13:10 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:13:10 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimV7FniiGC6006mCdmAtqOGc8UoyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>
	<itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTikhsFz17D+LWh=tXT9K_QvSzeLokw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimV7FniiGC6006mCdmAtqOGc8UoyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimMvj2Aw0XDmi=wDpbJcxNPSAjfzg@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:04 AM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> But wait, extensions are loaded later when IPython has come up fully.
> Why not put this logic in the extension itself. ?IOW, have the
> extension call:
>
> ip.register_post_execute(yourfunc)
>
> that would fully keep all of the logic localized in the extension as
> it should be.

Yup, that should work fine indeed.

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 14:14:58 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 11:14:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimJ1AL_F1miM2TS=NkA-7u6xYfkHg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik+i7ZE9F4B8QLYLvgY8ZEEbtVseg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimJ1AL_F1miM2TS=NkA-7u6xYfkHg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTingTDT-Y=fW=bPUycZ8zcU7RLytwQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 10:08 AM, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> This sounds too complex. ?I would say let's just go with (1).

That's my feeling too.  Jorgen, does that sound like a show stopper to you?

It does require the explicit u"" prefix for unicode literals, but that
seems like a reasonable thing to ask, given the semantics of byte
strings and unicode.

Cheers,

f


From jorgen.stenarson at bostream.nu  Fri Jun 17 14:25:12 2011
From: jorgen.stenarson at bostream.nu (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Stenarson?=)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:25:12 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Fwd: Re:  String encoding
Message-ID: <4DFB9C08.10305@bostream.nu>

I accidentaly sent this only to Thomas. Here it is for the list.

Thomas Kluyver skrev 2011-06-17 12:24:
>
> I'll leave it to J?rgen to put the case for usability.

When typing new stuff interactively it is only a case of remembering to
add a u before the string which is not such a big deal. I think the most
annoying thing will be when trying to reevaluate a repr of some string
object that happens to contain non-ascii characters, I do not know how
often that happens. I guess we will see how many questions/"bugs
reports" we get about this, because alternative 1 is different from how
the regular prompt works.

I think we should go with 1 and revisit this decision if we get a lot of
questions/"bug reports".

/J?rgen


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 14:26:01 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 13:26:01 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Package-specific extensions: an idea
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimV7FniiGC6006mCdmAtqOGc8UoyA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <iquu0u$qlm$1@dough.gmane.org>	<BANLkTi=-wwH_Zt2JPVyZdimBvnTGMyvRKg@mail.gmail.com>	<itdrqp$efl$1@dough.gmane.org>	<BANLkTikhsFz17D+LWh=tXT9K_QvSzeLokw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimV7FniiGC6006mCdmAtqOGc8UoyA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itg67p$7al$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/17/11 12:04 PM, Brian Granger wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 11:45 PM, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 2:16 PM, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> What would the user experience look like in this scenario?
>>
>> Since the config file is executed when IPython isn't fully up yet,
>> it's not the place to put code that depends on IPython itself, that's
>> why we have the exec_files field.  So I have in my config file this:
>
> But wait, extensions are loaded later when IPython has come up fully.
> Why not put this logic in the extension itself.  IOW, have the
> extension call:
>
> ip.register_post_execute(yourfunc)
>
> that would fully keep all of the logic localized in the extension as
> it should be.

Except that you don't want to register a separate function for each extension. 
You want to have a single function that deals with all of the delayed 
activations. And you want to implement this logic exactly once, not reimplement 
it in each extension that needs it.

How about this: we implement the logic that goes through the list of 
('module_name', 'extension_name') pairs in an 
InteractiveShell.check_deferred_extensions() method. We keep the configuration 
in c.Global.deferred_extensions as I had it. We make no modifications to the 
run_cell() method. Upon configuration, *if* deferred_extensions is not empty, 
then the InteractiveShell uses 
self.register_post_execute(self.check_deferred_extensions).

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From takowl at gmail.com  Fri Jun 17 15:54:44 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:54:44 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] String encoding
In-Reply-To: <4DFB94D5.2080909@bostream.nu>
References: <BANLkTinGf4sC4dD4yZxqw4AAbQ9CUcP1ig@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikNsbNYaZE5M+i1K=nDbea_Ea0STg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik+i7ZE9F4B8QLYLvgY8ZEEbtVseg@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DFB94D5.2080909@bostream.nu>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikjnRAixBfKtRciHbQE9HTrZUN8pQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 17 June 2011 18:54, J?rgen Stenarson <jorgen.stenarson at bostream.nu>wrote:

> I think the most annoying thing will be when trying to reevaluate a repr of
> some string object that happens to contain non-ascii characters, I do not
> know how often that happens.


As far as I know, the repr never displays those characters in a byte string
- it always uses the '\xe9' notation, which should work with no problems.


> I guess we will see how many questions/"bugs reports" we get about this,
> because alternative 1 is different from how the regular prompt works.


Unfortunately, both alternatives are different from how the pure Python
prompt works, at least for some users (e.g. with cp850, neither alternative
will work for both unicode and bytes literals). The Python interactive shell
must be able to call the parser in a way that's not exposed to pure Python
code.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 18:40:54 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:40:54 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] python3.2 + ipython : KO [Numpy-discussion]
 IPython on python3, for the adventurous...
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimOdV34=z53N8nhP=2B8tLL_C46rQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimOdV34=z53N8nhP=2B8tLL_C46rQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin=xfz2iP_MARB+hkFOnjaHFNUDig@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Olivier,

please send your messages about IPython to the list, not directly to
me, so that others can also assist with the problem and the discussion
is publicly archived.  Here is the mailing list info:

http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-user


On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Olivier Darge <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
> hello Fernando,
>
> I consider switching to python3,
> currently 3.2 on mac.
> I really want to continue using this nice IPython :-)
>
> I found this page off course... http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/Python3
>
> I cant' succeed running the last ipython3.
>
> installation of this package seems ok :
>
> mbp13:ipython-ipython-py3k-9c4fead odar$ python3 setup.py install
> ============================================================================
> BUILDING IPYTHON
> ??????????????? python: 3.2 (r32:88452, Feb 20 2011, 11:12:31)? [GCC 4.2.1
> ??????????????????????? (Apple Inc. build 5664)]
> ????????????? platform: darwin
>
> OPTIONAL DEPENDENCIES
> ??????????????? sphinx: Not found (required for building documentation)
> ????????????? pygments: Not found (required for syntax highlighting
> ??????????????????????? documentation)
> ????????????????? nose: Not found (required for running the test suite)
> ?????????????? pexpect: no (required for running standalone doctests)
> ???????????????? pyzmq: no (required for qtconsole and parallel computing
> ??????????????????????? capabilities)
> ????????????? readline: yes
> running install
> running build
> running build_py
> creating build
> creating build/lib
> creating build/lib/IPython
>
>
> but, when running ipython3 executable... :
>
> mbp13:~ odar$ /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/bin/ipython3
> ; exit;
> Error in sys.excepthook:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
> line 736, in __init__
> ??? restore_signals, start_new_session)
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
> line 1330, in _execute_child
> ??? raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg)
> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'otool'
>
> Original exception was:
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/bin/ipython3",
> line 10, in <module>
> ??? launch_new_instance()
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.py",
> line 662, in launch_new_instance
> ??? app.start()
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/application.py",
> line 219, in start
> ??? self.initialize()
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/application.py",
> line 211, in initialize
> ??? self.construct()
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.py",
> line 478, in construct
> ??? self.shell =
> TerminalInteractiveShell.instance(config=self.master_config)
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/config/configurable.py",
> line 203, in instance
> ??? inst = cls(*args, **kwargs)
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/interactiveshell.py",
> line 86, in __init__
> ??? user_global_ns=user_global_ns, custom_exceptions=custom_exceptions
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py",
> line 400, in __init__
> ??? self.init_readline()
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py",
> line 1542, in init_readline
> ??? import IPython.utils.rlineimpl as readline
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/utils/rlineimpl.py",
> line 59, in <module>
> ??? p = Popen(['otool', '-L', _rl.__file__], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
> line 736, in __init__
> ??? restore_signals, start_new_session)
> ? File
> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
> line 1330, in _execute_child
> ??? raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg)
> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'otool'
> logout
>
> [Op?ration termin?e]
>
>
> really strange.
> What can be missing in my way of launching ipython3 executable ?
>
> btw, thanks a lot for providing IPython !
>
> cheers from Belgium,
>
> --
> Olivier DARGE

Indeed, as you already found out, it seems XCode is needed on the mac
because of the unconditional call to otool.

That sounds like a bug to me that we've effectively made Xcode a
dependency on OSX, we shouldn't do that.  But I'd like correction from
our osx experts in case I'm wrong, before opening a ticket on this...

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 18:47:10 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:47:10 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] python3.2 + ipython : KO [Numpy-discussion]
	IPython on python3, for the adventurous...
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin=xfz2iP_MARB+hkFOnjaHFNUDig@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimOdV34=z53N8nhP=2B8tLL_C46rQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin=xfz2iP_MARB+hkFOnjaHFNUDig@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DE26DD91-AC7F-4D29-B5E8-04FDBF41CCEE@gmail.com>

I did not know otool was part of XCode.

That should definitely be conditional, and perhaps there is a better way to detect libedit without it.

-MinRK

On Jun 18, 2011, at 15:40, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Olivier,
> 
> please send your messages about IPython to the list, not directly to
> me, so that others can also assist with the problem and the discussion
> is publicly archived.  Here is the mailing list info:
> 
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-user
> 
> 
> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 7:41 AM, Olivier Darge <olivier.darge at gmail.com> wrote:
>> hello Fernando,
>> 
>> I consider switching to python3,
>> currently 3.2 on mac.
>> I really want to continue using this nice IPython :-)
>> 
>> I found this page off course... http://ipython.scipy.org/moin/Python3
>> 
>> I cant' succeed running the last ipython3.
>> 
>> installation of this package seems ok :
>> 
>> mbp13:ipython-ipython-py3k-9c4fead odar$ python3 setup.py install
>> ============================================================================
>> BUILDING IPYTHON
>>                 python: 3.2 (r32:88452, Feb 20 2011, 11:12:31)  [GCC 4.2.1
>>                         (Apple Inc. build 5664)]
>>               platform: darwin
>> 
>> OPTIONAL DEPENDENCIES
>>                 sphinx: Not found (required for building documentation)
>>               pygments: Not found (required for syntax highlighting
>>                         documentation)
>>                   nose: Not found (required for running the test suite)
>>                pexpect: no (required for running standalone doctests)
>>                  pyzmq: no (required for qtconsole and parallel computing
>>                         capabilities)
>>               readline: yes
>> running install
>> running build
>> running build_py
>> creating build
>> creating build/lib
>> creating build/lib/IPython
>> 
>> 
>> but, when running ipython3 executable... :
>> 
>> mbp13:~ odar$ /Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/bin/ipython3
>> ; exit;
>> Error in sys.excepthook:
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
>> line 736, in __init__
>>     restore_signals, start_new_session)
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
>> line 1330, in _execute_child
>>     raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg)
>> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'otool'
>> 
>> Original exception was:
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/bin/ipython3",
>> line 10, in <module>
>>     launch_new_instance()
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.py",
>> line 662, in launch_new_instance
>>     app.start()
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/application.py",
>> line 219, in start
>>     self.initialize()
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/application.py",
>> line 211, in initialize
>>     self.construct()
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/ipapp.py",
>> line 478, in construct
>>     self.shell =
>> TerminalInteractiveShell.instance(config=self.master_config)
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/config/configurable.py",
>> line 203, in instance
>>     inst = cls(*args, **kwargs)
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/frontend/terminal/interactiveshell.py",
>> line 86, in __init__
>>     user_global_ns=user_global_ns, custom_exceptions=custom_exceptions
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py",
>> line 400, in __init__
>>     self.init_readline()
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/core/interactiveshell.py",
>> line 1542, in init_readline
>>     import IPython.utils.rlineimpl as readline
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/site-packages/IPython/utils/rlineimpl.py",
>> line 59, in <module>
>>     p = Popen(['otool', '-L', _rl.__file__], stdout=PIPE, stderr=PIPE)
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
>> line 736, in __init__
>>     restore_signals, start_new_session)
>>   File
>> "/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/3.2/lib/python3.2/subprocess.py",
>> line 1330, in _execute_child
>>     raise child_exception_type(errno_num, err_msg)
>> OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 'otool'
>> logout
>> 
>> [Op?ration termin?e]
>> 
>> 
>> really strange.
>> What can be missing in my way of launching ipython3 executable ?
>> 
>> btw, thanks a lot for providing IPython !
>> 
>> cheers from Belgium,
>> 
>> --
>> Olivier DARGE
> 
> Indeed, as you already found out, it seems XCode is needed on the mac
> because of the unconditional call to otool.
> 
> That sounds like a bug to me that we've effectively made Xcode a
> dependency on OSX, we shouldn't do that.  But I'd like correction from
> our osx experts in case I'm wrong, before opening a ticket on this...
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 18:57:39 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 15:57:39 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] python3.2 + ipython : KO [Numpy-discussion]
 IPython on python3, for the adventurous...
In-Reply-To: <DE26DD91-AC7F-4D29-B5E8-04FDBF41CCEE@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimOdV34=z53N8nhP=2B8tLL_C46rQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin=xfz2iP_MARB+hkFOnjaHFNUDig@mail.gmail.com>
	<DE26DD91-AC7F-4D29-B5E8-04FDBF41CCEE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinwMUtcNX7tia9P1npij1+ei1Ug=g@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> I did not know otool was part of XCode.
>
> That should definitely be conditional, and perhaps there is a better way to detect libedit without it.

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues/524

Made it critical, b/c we'll make a ton of osx users pretty unhappy out
of the gate otherwise (anyone without xcode).

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Sat Jun 18 19:42:34 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2011 16:42:34 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] python3.2 + ipython : KO [Numpy-discussion]
 IPython on python3, for the adventurous...
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinwMUtcNX7tia9P1npij1+ei1Ug=g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimOdV34=z53N8nhP=2B8tLL_C46rQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin=xfz2iP_MARB+hkFOnjaHFNUDig@mail.gmail.com>
	<DE26DD91-AC7F-4D29-B5E8-04FDBF41CCEE@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinwMUtcNX7tia9P1npij1+ei1Ug=g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinTouzvDPUq+co5birb-TZEanyv5A@mail.gmail.com>

See here for a possible fix:
https://github.com/ipython/ipython/pull/525

-MinRK

On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 15:57, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Min RK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I did not know otool was part of XCode.
> >
> > That should definitely be conditional, and perhaps there is a better way
> to detect libedit without it.
>
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/issues/524
>
> Made it critical, b/c we'll make a ton of osx users pretty unhappy out
> of the gate otherwise (anyone without xcode).
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
>
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From agardelein at yahoo.fr  Sun Jun 19 12:09:14 2011
From: agardelein at yahoo.fr (Arnaud Gardelein)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 18:09:14 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Docstrings for magic functions
Message-ID: <1308499754.5586.16.camel@bomberx>

Hi,

I'm Arnaud, new to this mailing list but using ipython since a little
more than a year now. I really like IPython features and decided to
write an application on top of it, oscopy, a kind of oscilloscope to
view electrical simulation results (oscopy.org).

It consist of a framework and an application that use heavily magic
functions to facilitate the access to framework functions. I have
documented those functions with docstrings, that can be displayed by
typing %magic_name?, for the user it would be simpler to use 'help
magic_name'. For instance I have tried to do 'help lsmagic' but of
course lsmagic is not defined in global scope.
Is there a way have this working ?

Regards,

Arnaud. 



From takowl at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 14:02:14 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 19:02:14 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Docstrings for magic functions
In-Reply-To: <1308499754.5586.16.camel@bomberx>
References: <1308499754.5586.16.camel@bomberx>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=4-zi1jBSWhodHwuVi5pv_3jN+hg@mail.gmail.com>

On 19 June 2011 17:09, Arnaud Gardelein <agardelein at yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm Arnaud, new to this mailing list but using ipython since a little
> more than a year now. I really like IPython features and decided to
> write an application on top of it, oscopy, a kind of oscilloscope to
> view electrical simulation results (oscopy.org).
>
> It consist of a framework and an application that use heavily magic
> functions to facilitate the access to framework functions. I have
> documented those functions with docstrings, that can be displayed by
> typing %magic_name?, for the user it would be simpler to use 'help
> magic_name'. For instance I have tried to do 'help lsmagic' but of
> course lsmagic is not defined in global scope.
> Is there a way have this working ?
>

Hi Arnaud,

You can already call 'pinfo lsmagic', which works as you'd describe. pinfo
is short for print information. If magic calls are very important to your
application, it should be possible for you to make 'help' an alias for
pinfo. Then again, I prefer to type 'lsmagic?' rather than 'help lsmagic'.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 15:31:44 2011
From: johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com (Johann Cohen-Tanugi)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 21:31:44 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] [Windows] pyzmq 2.1.7 installation
In-Reply-To: <20110617233052.C1C2.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <20110616022515.8EB8.B1C76292@gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=nyJ-E7wXDQ1TzFnazb7qqe0iVPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110617233052.C1C2.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4DFE4EA0.8050609@gmail.com>

hi there, is anyone working on LSF support for the parallel engines?
best,
Johann


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Sun Jun 19 16:10:44 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 13:10:44 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] [Windows] pyzmq 2.1.7 installation
In-Reply-To: <4DFE4EA0.8050609@gmail.com>
References: <20110616022515.8EB8.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=nyJ-E7wXDQ1TzFnazb7qqe0iVPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110617233052.C1C2.B1C76292@gmail.com> <4DFE4EA0.8050609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikBb2VQ=YeqoXxZRCra0JrdSoBuZQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> wrote:
> hi there, is anyone working on LSF support for the parallel engines?

Not yet, though I do see it in 0.10.2.  I imagine LSF support would be
another trivial subclass of the PBS Launcher like SGE.

If you want to contribute/test LSF Launchers, that would be great!

See https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/0.10.2/IPython/kernel/scripts/ipcluster.py
for the old LSF support

and https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/newapp/IPython/parallel/apps/launcher.py
for the file containing the Launchers in 0.11.

-MinRK

> best,
> Johann
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From agardelein at yahoo.fr  Sun Jun 19 17:14:34 2011
From: agardelein at yahoo.fr (Arnaud Gardelein)
Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2011 23:14:34 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Docstrings for magic functions
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=4-zi1jBSWhodHwuVi5pv_3jN+hg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <1308499754.5586.16.camel@bomberx>
	<BANLkTi=4-zi1jBSWhodHwuVi5pv_3jN+hg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1308518074.3922.0.camel@bomberx>

Thanks Thomas for the tip. I will implement an alias to pinfo.

Arnaud.

Le dimanche 19 juin 2011 ? 19:02 +0100, Thomas Kluyver a ?crit :
> On 19 June 2011 17:09, Arnaud Gardelein <agardelein at yahoo.fr> wrote:
>         Hi,
>         
>         I'm Arnaud, new to this mailing list but using ipython since a
>         little
>         more than a year now. I really like IPython features and
>         decided to
>         write an application on top of it, oscopy, a kind of
>         oscilloscope to
>         view electrical simulation results (oscopy.org).
>         
>         It consist of a framework and an application that use heavily
>         magic
>         functions to facilitate the access to framework functions. I
>         have
>         documented those functions with docstrings, that can be
>         displayed by
>         typing %magic_name?, for the user it would be simpler to use
>         'help
>         magic_name'. For instance I have tried to do 'help lsmagic'
>         but of
>         course lsmagic is not defined in global scope.
>         Is there a way have this working ?
> 
> Hi Arnaud,
> 
> You can already call 'pinfo lsmagic', which works as you'd describe.
> pinfo is short for print information. If magic calls are very
> important to your application, it should be possible for you to make
> 'help' an alias for pinfo. Then again, I prefer to type 'lsmagic?'
> rather than 'help lsmagic'.
> 
> Thanks,
> Thomas
> 




From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 03:34:43 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 00:34:43 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] [IPython-User] [Windows] pyzmq 2.1.7 installation
In-Reply-To: <4DFEF2D7.6010906@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
References: <20110616022515.8EB8.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=nyJ-E7wXDQ1TzFnazb7qqe0iVPA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110617233052.C1C2.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<4DFE4EA0.8050609@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikBb2VQ=YeqoXxZRCra0JrdSoBuZQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4DFEF2D7.6010906@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
Message-ID: <8A1F8D08-A6FA-4584-8A18-EA1A77610C03@gmail.com>

Yes, trivial might be an exaggeration, but it should just be a matter of subclassing PBSLauncher and using bsub instead of qsub, and making appropriate adjustments to job templates etc.  Looking at how the SGE classes derive from PBS should provide most of what you need. You may not even need to override any methods, but I'm not sufficiently familiar with LSF to be sure.

That should be easier for someone who actually has an LSF system to test, rather than just hoping there are no typos as I would have to do.

-MinRK

On Jun 20, 2011, at 0:12, Johann Cohen-Tanugi <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> wrote:

> hi Min,
> ok I will be happy to try out, once I understand enough of what is there already ;)
> Given the impressive amount of work in this 0.11 release, I am suspicious as to what you call 'trivial' :)
> 
> best,
> Johann
> 
> On 06/19/2011 10:10 PM, MinRK wrote:
>> On Sun, Jun 19, 2011 at 12:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> hi there, is anyone working on LSF support for the parallel engines?
>> Not yet, though I do see it in 0.10.2.  I imagine LSF support would be
>> another trivial subclass of the PBS Launcher like SGE.
>> 
>> If you want to contribute/test LSF Launchers, that would be great!
>> 
>> See https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/0.10.2/IPython/kernel/scripts/ipcluster.py
>> for the old LSF support
>> 
>> and https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/newapp/IPython/parallel/apps/launcher.py
>> for the file containing the Launchers in 0.11.
>> 
>> -MinRK
>> 
>>> best,
>>> Johann
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IPython-dev mailing list
>>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>> 


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 08:53:18 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:53:18 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
Message-ID: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>

This is now RC1 for the new website:

http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/

Hopefully the only thing still to be sorted out is the banner font - Klonuo,
can we try a couple of different possibilities for that?

The tiles in the sidebar now have a pale blue background, thanks to Klonuo.
I think this looks much better than the previous grey.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 09:00:23 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:00:23 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>

I'm getting ipython-qtconsole failing in newapp:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/bin/ipython-qtconsole", line
6, in <module>
    main()
  File
"/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/console/ipythonqt.py",
line 224, in main
    kernel_manager.start_kernel(**kwargs)
  File
"/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/kernelmanager.py",
line 208, in start_kernel
    super(QtKernelManager, self).start_kernel(*args, **kw)
  File
"/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/zmq/kernelmanager.py",
line 794, in start_kernel
    stdin_port=stdin[1], hb_port=hb[1], **kw)
  File
"/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/zmq/ipkernel.py",
line 662, in launch_kernel
    *args, **kwargs)
TypeError: base_launch_kernel() got an unexpected keyword argument 'colors'

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 12:44:20 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:44:20 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>

I think your environment is stale, because ipythonqt.py has been
renamed to qtconsole.py, and you might be launching the old script via
a lingering .pyc or something.

Note that ipython-qtconsole has been removed in favor of `ipython
qtconsole` per Brian's request, except as a GUI script with
setuptools.

-MinRK

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 06:00, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm getting ipython-qtconsole failing in newapp:
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ? File "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/bin/ipython-qtconsole", line
> 6, in <module>
> ??? main()
> ? File
> "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/console/ipythonqt.py",
> line 224, in main
> ??? kernel_manager.start_kernel(**kwargs)
> ? File
> "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/frontend/qt/kernelmanager.py",
> line 208, in start_kernel
> ??? super(QtKernelManager, self).start_kernel(*args, **kw)
> ? File
> "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/zmq/kernelmanager.py",
> line 794, in start_kernel
> ??? stdin_port=stdin[1], hb_port=hb[1], **kw)
> ? File
> "/home/thomas/code/virtualenvs/ipy-trunk/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/zmq/ipkernel.py",
> line 662, in launch_kernel
> ??? *args, **kwargs)
> TypeError: base_launch_kernel() got an unexpected keyword argument 'colors'
>
> Thomas
>


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 12:56:17 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 17:56:17 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 June 2011 17:44, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think your environment is stale, because ipythonqt.py has been
> renamed to qtconsole.py, and you might be launching the old script via
> a lingering .pyc or something.
>

Oh yes, my mistake, I was doing ipython-qtconsole.

We seem to have broken non-ascii input at the Qt console. I'm looking into
it.

Thomas
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From klonuo at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 13:14:17 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:14:17 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110620191414.89CC.B1C76292@gmail.com>

On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 13:53:18 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is now RC1 for the new website:
> 
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
> 
> Hopefully the only thing still to be sorted out is the banner font - Klonuo,
> can we try a couple of different possibilities for that?
> 
> The tiles in the sidebar now have a pale blue background, thanks to Klonuo.
> I think this looks much better than the previous grey.
> 

OK, Thomas :)

Are there any suggestions which fonts should be used, as I'm not in with
free fonts?

Also about blue color used in logo image: should we maybe use blue color
from H1 (darker) or H2 element (slightly lighter) or?


I'd comment on footer - I think that font should be reduced, as it seems
it's in same size as body text


Cheers


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 14:10:09 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:10:09 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>

I think we should merge newapp into master.  It is a big change, and
needs to spend some time there before release, and that time is
quickly running out.  We should be releasing 0.11 in less than 2
weeks.

It also makes other pull requests hard, because it touches so much of
the code base.

-MinRK



On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 09:56, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 June 2011 17:44, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think your environment is stale, because ipythonqt.py has been
>> renamed to qtconsole.py, and you might be launching the old script via
>> a lingering .pyc or something.
>
> Oh yes, my mistake, I was doing ipython-qtconsole.
>
> We seem to have broken non-ascii input at the Qt console. I'm looking into
> it.
>
> Thomas
>


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 14:12:44 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 19:12:44 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimU-X8ZjBEkTMunZvtQrDg-B2sw8Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 June 2011 17:56, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> We seem to have broken non-ascii input at the Qt console. I'm looking into
> it.


IPython/zmq/session.py, line 76 - we're bludgeoning unicode out of a dict.
So the console sends the execute request OK, but the kernel flattens it out
in retrieving it. I'm not quite sure why we're squashing on unpacking: both
the server and the client should be capable of handling unicode strings.

Made PR 532.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 15:58:48 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:58:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinLmkwuMZsAgSQvFQrtTybV0WTWVQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hopefully the only thing still to be sorted out is the banner font - Klonuo,
> can we try a couple of different possibilities for that?
>

Minor comment: whatever text is used should be rendered with rgba
subpixel antialiasing, currently it's only using simple font-color
antialiasing, and the difference is pretty noticeable on a modern LCD.

Cheers,

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 16:30:37 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:30:37 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110620191414.89CC.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110620191414.89CC.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimmR70oaLgkhVRtki3Ke7+GCAQrGg@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 June 2011 18:14, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Are there any suggestions which fonts should be used, as I'm not in with
> free fonts?
>

I'm not in with fonts at all, I'm afraid. I think Min suggested Anonymous
Pro, another monospace font. Let's also try with a sans-serif variable width
font. There's a list here:

http://www.google.com/webfonts?subset=latin&category=sans-serif


> Also about blue color used in logo image: should we maybe use blue color
> from H1 (darker) or H2 element (slightly lighter) or?
>

It's up to you!


> I'd comment on footer - I think that font should be reduced, as it seems
> it's in same size as body text


I'll fiddle with it.

Thanks again!

Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 17:00:03 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:00:03 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 June 2011 19:10, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think we should merge newapp into master.  It is a big change, and
> needs to spend some time there before release, and that time is
> quickly running out.  We should be releasing 0.11 in less than 2
> weeks.
>
> It also makes other pull requests hard, because it touches so much of
> the code base.
>

I'll second this - we're not going to reject it, the diff is too big to
really get a handle on, and various other pull requests will need to be
rebased once it's merged, so we may as well get on with it.

The only thing I would suggest is: can we tag* the commit immediately before
we merge, so that we've got a reference point if we think there are
regressions.

*I'm guessing this is how git tags work - if not, substitute the appropriate
term.

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 17:15:10 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:15:10 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 14:00, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 20 June 2011 19:10, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I think we should merge newapp into master. ?It is a big change, and
>> needs to spend some time there before release, and that time is
>> quickly running out. ?We should be releasing 0.11 in less than 2
>> weeks.
>>
>> It also makes other pull requests hard, because it touches so much of
>> the code base.
>
> I'll second this - we're not going to reject it, the diff is too big to
> really get a handle on, and various other pull requests will need to be
> rebased once it's merged, so we may as well get on with it.
>
> The only thing I would suggest is: can we tag* the commit immediately before
> we merge, so that we've got a reference point if we think there are
> regressions.
>
> *I'm guessing this is how git tags work - if not, substitute the appropriate
> term.

Tags are typically a permanent, lasting reference point, though I
suppose we could have a transient tag pointing to pre-newapp HEAD.
Alternatively, we could ensure that newapp gets a proper merge, which
would make the previous head obvious (merge commits have two parents),
but that's not quite as convenient for easy checkout as a proper tag.

-MinRK

>
> Thomas
>


From klonuo at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 17:35:19 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:35:19 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimmR70oaLgkhVRtki3Ke7+GCAQrGg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20110620191414.89CC.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimmR70oaLgkhVRtki3Ke7+GCAQrGg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110620233512.7BB9.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:30:37 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 20 June 2011 18:14, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Are there any suggestions which fonts should be used, as I'm not in with
> > free fonts?
> >
> 
> I'm not in with fonts at all, I'm afraid. I think Min suggested Anonymous
> Pro, another monospace font. Let's also try with a sans-serif variable width
> font. There's a list here:
> 
> http://www.google.com/webfonts?subset=latin&category=sans-serif
> 

I couldn't find anything interesting to me except Droid Sans Mono
Added Anonymous Pro as suggested and Quicksend to add more exotic


> > Also about blue color used in logo image: should we maybe use blue color
> > from H1 (darker) or H2 element (slightly lighter) or?
> >
> 
> It's up to you!
> 

I choose H2 blue
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From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 18:09:57 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 23:09:57 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>

On 20 June 2011 22:15, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>  Tags are typically a permanent, lasting reference point, though I
> suppose we could have a transient tag pointing to pre-newapp HEAD.
> Alternatively, we could ensure that newapp gets a proper merge, which
> would make the previous head obvious (merge commits have two parents),
> but that's not quite as convenient for easy checkout as a proper tag.


Let's have a tag for a bit, just for easy use with checkout and bisect.

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:22:27 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:22:27 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110620233512.7BB9.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <20110620191414.89CC.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimmR70oaLgkhVRtki3Ke7+GCAQrGg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110620233512.7BB9.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikCpR-aEEqHoGyBiw5qJKkpj2YB8g@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I couldn't find anything interesting to me except Droid Sans Mono
> Added Anonymous Pro as suggested and Quicksend to add more exotic

I actually like quicksend a lot, though it's perhaps a bit too thin,
and I think we said we wanted to stick to a serifed 'I'.

I have one comment for all: the size of the brackets and the location
of the y.  The current logo pushes the y up and make the brackets a
little smaller, so that they are better balanced visually.  I know
that y is normally a drop letter, so I think it's fine to leave it
droppped, but I think we should then make the [] little smaller.
Otherwise, in all but the Droid sample, the y feels a little lost with
a lot of empty space above it inside the [].

Cheers,

f


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:24:15 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:24:15 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Let's have a tag for a bit, just for easy use with checkout and bisect.
>

+1 for a tag.  Since our release tags are all prefixed with rel-, I
think it's perfectly reasonable to use another prefix for tags for
development use.  Say 'dev', feeling creative :)

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:38:35 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:38:35 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 16:24, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 3:09 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Let's have a tag for a bit, just for easy use with checkout and bisect.
>>
>
> +1 for a tag. ?Since our release tags are all prefixed with rel-, I
> think it's perfectly reasonable to use another prefix for tags for
> development use. ?Say 'dev', feeling creative :)

Is that a 'go' for merge? If so, I'll tag&merge once I get home in an
hour or so.  Or we can wait a day or so for objections.

-MinRK

>
> f
>


From klonuo at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 19:40:01 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 01:40:01 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikCpR-aEEqHoGyBiw5qJKkpj2YB8g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20110620233512.7BB9.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikCpR-aEEqHoGyBiw5qJKkpj2YB8g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110621013955.7BBE.B1C76292@gmail.com>

Nice spottings :) I actually first made adjustments on Droid Sans Mono, 
then just changed font for other samples 

In all samples however [y]: is smaller then IP part (30pt vs 36pt), but 
we could make [] with same height as IP, and adjust "y" per font 


When you select desired font, or suggest other for try, I could make 
subpixel antialiasing on final image 


Cheers


On Mon, 20 Jun 2011 16:22:27 -0700
Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 2:35 PM, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I couldn't find anything interesting to me except Droid Sans Mono
> > Added Anonymous Pro as suggested and Quicksend to add more exotic
> 
> I actually like quicksend a lot, though it's perhaps a bit too thin,
> and I think we said we wanted to stick to a serifed 'I'.
> 
> I have one comment for all: the size of the brackets and the location
> of the y.  The current logo pushes the y up and make the brackets a
> little smaller, so that they are better balanced visually.  I know
> that y is normally a drop letter, so I think it's fine to leave it
> droppped, but I think we should then make the [] little smaller.
> Otherwise, in all but the Droid sample, the y feels a little lost with
> a lot of empty space above it inside the [].
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f

--------------------
Full-quoting makes you scroll past the same junk over and over.



From fperez.net at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 23:09:15 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:09:15 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:38 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Is that a 'go' for merge? If so, I'll tag&merge once I get home in an
> hour or so. ?Or we can wait a day or so for objections.
>

>From my side, it's a go.  The ideas are sound, and we're at the point
where what we need is battle testing to shake out the problems.  So I
don't see holding on having much value at this point.

Some minor comments:

- This variable seems to be ignored now, it worked in master:

c.Global.ignore_old_config = True

for people who have a single ipython_dir (like me) because they need
to handle both 0.10 and 0.11 series simultaneously, it's nice to have
a way to silence all those warnings.

- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
it's just noise.  I realize we now have a more consistent structure
for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.

Otherwise, it looks good, passes the test suite, etc.

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Mon Jun 20 23:38:21 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 20:38:21 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 20:09, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 4:38 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is that a 'go' for merge? If so, I'll tag&merge once I get home in an
>> hour or so. ?Or we can wait a day or so for objections.
>>
>
> From my side, it's a go. ?The ideas are sound, and we're at the point
> where what we need is battle testing to shake out the problems. ?So I
> don't see holding on having much value at this point.

Okay, I will go ahead with the merge this evening, then.

Since this is merging newapp, I'll call the pre-merge tag 'oldapp'.

>
> Some minor comments:
>
> - This variable seems to be ignored now, it worked in master:
>
> c.Global.ignore_old_config = True

Nothing looks at the Global config anymore. This is now
application-level, in c.InteractiveShellApp.ignore_old_config I
believe (I don't see these warnings with my default config).  Perhaps
it should be moved to BaseIPythonApplication, though.

>
> for people who have a single ipython_dir (like me) because they need
> to handle both 0.10 and 0.11 series simultaneously, it's nice to have
> a way to silence all those warnings.
>
> - I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.

Easy enough, I'll do this before merging.

-MinRK

>
> Otherwise, it looks good, passes the test suite, etc.
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 00:02:33 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:02:33 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:38 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> Nothing looks at the Global config anymore. This is now
> application-level, in c.InteractiveShellApp.ignore_old_config I
> believe (I don't see these warnings with my default config). ?Perhaps
> it should be moved to BaseIPythonApplication, though.

Yup, that works, thanks.  We should probably indicate the silencing
variable along with the warning msg (that's how I found out about the
right variable with the previous setup).

>> - I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>
> Easy enough, I'll do this before merging.

Great, thanks.

Cheers,

f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 00:22:38 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 21:22:38 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>

newapp has been merged into master.


On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 21:02, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 8:38 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Nothing looks at the Global config anymore. This is now
>> application-level, in c.InteractiveShellApp.ignore_old_config I
>> believe (I don't see these warnings with my default config). ?Perhaps
>> it should be moved to BaseIPythonApplication, though.
>
> Yup, that works, thanks. ?We should probably indicate the silencing
> variable along with the warning msg (that's how I found out about the
> right variable with the previous setup).

specific Config variable noted in the warning message.

>
>>> - I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>
>> Easy enough, I'll do this before merging.
>
> Great, thanks.
>
> Cheers,
>
> f
>


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 01:37:12 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:37:12 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
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	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
Message-ID: <9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>

Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and interactive IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally for connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your interactive environment.  There's no reason to change your interactive config just to connect to a different cluster.

That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that of the current application, not just 'default'.

-MinRK

On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann Cohen-Tanugi <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> wrote:

> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>> it's just noise.  I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>> 
> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following Min's advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I could gather
> I did
> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then when I started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
> ipython profile=lsf
> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
> 
> from IPython.parallel import Client
> c = Client(profile='lsf')
> 
> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to be 2 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the parallel lsf one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge the 2?
> 
> best,
> Johann


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 04:05:49 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 01:05:49 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikvMZPPi5uysBh6m4ixKSQh3P8g=A@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> newapp has been merged into master.
>

Thanks!

BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...

Cheers,

f


From hans_meine at gmx.net  Tue Jun 21 05:15:19 2011
From: hans_meine at gmx.net (Hans Meine)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:15:19 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinLmkwuMZsAgSQvFQrtTybV0WTWVQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLmkwuMZsAgSQvFQrtTybV0WTWVQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <201106211115.19408.hans_meine@gmx.net>

Am Montag, 20. Juni 2011, um 21:58:48 schrieb Fernando Perez:
> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 5:53 AM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hopefully the only thing still to be sorted out is the banner font -
> > Klonuo, can we try a couple of different possibilities for that?
> 
> Minor comment: whatever text is used should be rendered with rgba
> subpixel antialiasing, currently it's only using simple font-color
> antialiasing, and the difference is pretty noticeable on a modern LCD.

OTOH, subpixel-antialised images will look awful on monitors with a different 
(or no) subpixel layout!

Since I don't see a way to detect this, I'd vote for the simpler antialiasing 
(maybe trying to align with pixels such that antialiasing is minimized, e.g. 
in Inkscape).

HTH,
  Hans


From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 05:37:17 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:37:17 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <201106211115.19408.hans_meine@gmx.net>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLmkwuMZsAgSQvFQrtTybV0WTWVQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<201106211115.19408.hans_meine@gmx.net>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinj3ywRhX4kqoEDVj64obMfa7XGCg@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 June 2011 10:15, Hans Meine <hans_meine at gmx.net> wrote:

> OTOH, subpixel-antialised images will look awful on monitors with a
> different
> (or no) subpixel layout!
>
> Since I don't see a way to detect this, I'd vote for the simpler
> antialiasing
> (maybe trying to align with pixels such that antialiasing is minimized,
> e.g.
> in Inkscape).
>

Then again, most people looking at it will be doing so on an LCD screen with
standard RGB pixel layout, so it makes sense to optimise for the common
case.

However, maybe we can let the browser render the banner. If we deliver it as
SVG with a fallback, or as HTML using the @font-face directive in CSS, we
should be able to have it rendered the best way on any screen, and degrade
gracefully in older browsers.

On the logos, I'd agree with Fernando that there's a lot of empty space
above the y - especially for Anonymous Pro and Quicksend.

Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 11:23:06 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 08:23:06 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>


On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> newapp has been merged into master.
>> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
> honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
> support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...

It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'.  Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.

-MinRK

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> f


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 11:27:35 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 08:27:35 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikoCQb7W-2KvYQUBr5Qfn8AEiKrKQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> wrote:
> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of the
> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see the
> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
> 1/ A trivial typo at :
> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start controllers
> and engines with various remote execution schemes. ?Currently supported
> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque, SGE),
> and Windows HPC Server.
> ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?|_____>
> should be :command:`mpiexec`
> 2/ I can read the following lines :
> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
> or
> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>
> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option AFAICT,
> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.

Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed '--parallel'.

>
> best,
> Johann
>
> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>
>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and interactive
>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally for
>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your interactive
>> environment. ?There's no reason to change your interactive config just to
>> connect to a different cluster.
>>
>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that of
>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>
>> -MinRK
>>
>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ?wrote:
>>
>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>>>>
>>>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>
>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following Min's
>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I could
>>> gather
>>> I did
>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then when I
>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>
>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>
>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to be 2
>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the parallel lsf
>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge the 2?
>>>
>>> best,
>>> Johann
>


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 12:12:32 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:12:32 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>
> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>> honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>> support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>
> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'.  Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.

Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab" 
for the pylab profile?

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 12:20:47 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:20:47 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>
	<itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>


On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:12, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>> 
>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> 
>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks!
>>> 
>>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>>> honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
>>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>>> support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>> 
>> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'.  Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.
> 
> Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab" 
> for the pylab profile?

-pylab is rejected as an invalid argument, just as anything prefixed with just one leading '-'. Flags currently require a '--' prefix, but that is entirely artificial. Allowing the shorter leading '-' is a trivial change, and might ease the transition for people.

-MinRK

> 
> -- 
> Robert Kern
> 
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>  an underlying truth."
>   -- Umberto Eco
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 12:31:18 2011
From: johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com (Johann Cohen-Tanugi)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 18:31:18 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>

hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
  git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff 
related to python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
then :
python setup.py install 
--prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python

perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the 
native python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having 
/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top 
of PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed 
with python?

Anyway, I will continue investigating....
sorry for the noise,
JOhann

On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>  wrote:
>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of the
>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see the
>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start controllers
>> and engines with various remote execution schemes.  Currently supported
>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque, SGE),
>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>                                                                     |_____>
>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>> or
>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>
>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option AFAICT,
>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed '--parallel'.
>
>> best,
>> Johann
>>
>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and interactive
>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally for
>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your interactive
>>> environment.  There's no reason to change your interactive config just to
>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>
>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that of
>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>
>>> -MinRK
>>>
>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>    wrote:
>>>
>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>>>>> it's just noise.  I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>>
>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following Min's
>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I could
>>>> gather
>>>> I did
>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then when I
>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>
>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>
>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to be 2
>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the parallel lsf
>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge the 2?
>>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Johann


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 12:41:25 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 09:41:25 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=UjF+cxERcTF3VRjrqSgCDitR=mw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikZOcqt2XKRC1TbK8GtOntCFFHvag@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> wrote:
> hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
> ?git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
> I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff related to
> python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
> then :
> python setup.py install
> --prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python
>
> perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the native
> python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having
> /afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top of
> PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed with
> python?

If it was installed with setuptools/easy_install, yes - they inject
packages at the front sys.path at runtime, ending up ahead of
PYTHONPATH. easy_installed packages can even come before '.'.

You can check which one you are importing by looking at `IPython.__file__`.

It's possible that I've messed something up, but the source looks
right (https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/profileapp.py#L127)

>
> Anyway, I will continue investigating....
> sorry for the noise,
> JOhann
>
> On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of
>>> the
>>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see the
>>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start controllers
>>> and engines with various remote execution schemes. ?Currently supported
>>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque,
>>> SGE),
>>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>>
>>> ?|_____>
>>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>>> or
>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>>
>>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option
>>> AFAICT,
>>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
>>
>> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed
>> '--parallel'.
>>
>>> best,
>>> Johann
>>>
>>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and interactive
>>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally for
>>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your
>>>> interactive
>>>> environment. ?There's no reason to change your interactive config just
>>>> to
>>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>>
>>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that of
>>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>>
>>>> -MinRK
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ? ?wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following Min's
>>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I
>>>>> could
>>>>> gather
>>>>> I did
>>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then when
>>>>> I
>>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>>
>>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>>
>>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to be
>>>>> 2
>>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the
>>>>> parallel lsf
>>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge the
>>>>> 2?
>>>>>
>>>>> best,
>>>>> Johann
>


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 12:47:09 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:47:09 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>	<itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itqhue$rl9$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/21/11 11:20 AM, Min RK wrote:
>
> On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:12, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>
>> On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com>   wrote:
>>>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>>
>>>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>>>> honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
>>>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>>>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>>>> support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>>>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>>>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>>>
>>> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'.  Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.
>>
>> Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab"
>> for the pylab profile?
>
> -pylab is rejected as an invalid argument, just as anything prefixed with just one leading '-'. Flags currently require a '--' prefix, but that is entirely artificial. Allowing the shorter leading '-' is a trivial change, and might ease the transition for people.

Well, yes. Changing "-i" to "--i" is just gratuitous, as is disallowing the 
short aliases for "-p/--profile" and "-l/--log". It makes IPython more 
non-standard in addition to backwards-incompatible. The manual parsing in 
KeyValueConfigLoader exacerbates this (e.g. it seems to require 
"--profile=scipy" rather than "--profile scipy" like most applications would 
accept).

I know it's late in the game to be commenting on this, but that's an unpleasant 
change. I see an ArgParseConfigLoader, but it seems unfinished and unused.

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 13:00:15 2011
From: johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com (Johann Cohen-Tanugi)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:00:15 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E00CE1F.3000609@gmail.com>

ok found the problem : I still had the ipython-newapp source code in the 
same dir as the new ipython, I did everything from this new ipython dir,
but at execution it was looking into ipython-newapp. Obviously there is 
something I was not expecting.... Anyway now it works.

sorry again,
Johann

On 06/21/2011 06:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
>>   git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
>> I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff related to
>> python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
>> then :
>> python setup.py install
>> --prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python
>>
>> perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the native
>> python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having
>> /afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top of
>> PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed with
>> python?
> If it was installed with setuptools/easy_install, yes - they inject
> packages at the front sys.path at runtime, ending up ahead of
> PYTHONPATH. easy_installed packages can even come before '.'.
>
> You can check which one you are importing by looking at `IPython.__file__`.
>
> It's possible that I've messed something up, but the source looks
> right (https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/profileapp.py#L127)
>
>> Anyway, I will continue investigating....
>> sorry for the noise,
>> JOhann
>>
>> On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>    wrote:
>>>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of
>>>> the
>>>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see the
>>>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>>>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>>>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start controllers
>>>> and engines with various remote execution schemes.  Currently supported
>>>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque,
>>>> SGE),
>>>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>>>
>>>>   |_____>
>>>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>>>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>>>> or
>>>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>>>
>>>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option
>>>> AFAICT,
>>>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
>>> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed
>>> '--parallel'.
>>>
>>>> best,
>>>> Johann
>>>>
>>>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and interactive
>>>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally for
>>>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your
>>>>> interactive
>>>>> environment.  There's no reason to change your interactive config just
>>>>> to
>>>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that of
>>>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>>>
>>>>> -MinRK
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>      wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default case,
>>>>>>> it's just noise.  I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we should
>>>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following Min's
>>>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I
>>>>>> could
>>>>>> gather
>>>>>> I did
>>>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then when
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to be
>>>>>> 2
>>>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the
>>>>>> parallel lsf
>>>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge the
>>>>>> 2?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> Johann


From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 13:33:33 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:33:33 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTinj3ywRhX4kqoEDVj64obMfa7XGCg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <201106211115.19408.hans_meine@gmx.net>
	<BANLkTinj3ywRhX4kqoEDVj64obMfa7XGCg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:37:17 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 21 June 2011 10:15, Hans Meine <hans_meine at gmx.net> wrote:
> 
> > OTOH, subpixel-antialised images will look awful on monitors with a
> > different
> > (or no) subpixel layout!
> >
> > Since I don't see a way to detect this, I'd vote for the simpler
> > antialiasing
> > (maybe trying to align with pixels such that antialiasing is minimized,
> > e.g.
> > in Inkscape).
> >
> 
> Then again, most people looking at it will be doing so on an LCD screen with
> standard RGB pixel layout, so it makes sense to optimise for the common
> case.
> 
> However, maybe we can let the browser render the banner. If we deliver it as
> SVG with a fallback, or as HTML using the @font-face directive in CSS, we
> should be able to have it rendered the best way on any screen, and degrade
> gracefully in older browsers.

SVG usage as header logo is interesting idea, although a bit avant 
garde, as I'm not sure how wide spread is this approach and what are 
browser considerations with embedded fonts. 

Then how browsers renders this fonts? For example IE9 font rendering 
engine looks very different then FireFox or IE8 or other browsers. 

What would be difference if we use vector objects instead fonts?
And is SVG font rendered, subpixel antialiased or standard antialiased?

About "@font-face directive in CSS" I'm not sure what you mean?


I attached two examples: standard antialiased and subpixel antialiased 
and wait for users with CRT to comment. I don't have CRT monitor near. 


> On the logos, I'd agree with Fernando that there's a lot of empty space
> above the y - especially for Anonymous Pro and Quicksend.

At the end, I'm not sure also about "[y]" size/spacing reconsiderations? 
Do you expect me to redo logos or you can choose font without redoing? I 
think this is not that big drawback and we can choose font besides it, 
afterwhich I'll adjust elements on chosen font (in case of Droid it 
already looks fine to me) 

And if you have other font ideas, point at it


Cheers

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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 13:50:27 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:50:27 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <itqhue$rl9$1@dough.gmane.org>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>
	<itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>
	<itqhue$rl9$1@dough.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=9VhZUkpJ80pKav-CBcuWnQrc8Zg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:47, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 6/21/11 11:20 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>
>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:12, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com> ? wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com> ? wrote:
>>>>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>
>>>>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>>>>> honoring -pylab with a single dash. ?We've talked about this before,
>>>>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>>>>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>>>>> support. ?I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>>>>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>>>>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'. ?Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.
>>>
>>> Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab"
>>> for the pylab profile?
>>
>> -pylab is rejected as an invalid argument, just as anything prefixed with just one leading '-'. Flags currently require a '--' prefix, but that is entirely artificial. Allowing the shorter leading '-' is a trivial change, and might ease the transition for people.
>
> Well, yes. Changing "-i" to "--i" is just gratuitous, as is disallowing the
> short aliases for "-p/--profile" and "-l/--log". It makes IPython more
> non-standard in addition to backwards-incompatible.

The only reason '-' is not allowed for flags now is in case we want to
add something like short aliases.

> The manual parsing in
> KeyValueConfigLoader exacerbates this (e.g. it seems to require
> "--profile=scipy" rather than "--profile scipy" like most applications would
> accept).

Command-line args are unambiguous - flags, prefixed with `--` *never*
take arguments, and setting values is always simply a Python
assignment, thus never prefixed by '-', so now specifying which pylab
backend to use and using the auto backend are different:

# use matplotlib default:
ipython --pylab # equivalent to ipython pylab=auto
# specify Qt:
ipython pylab=qt

Neither of the following works:
ipython --pylab=qt
ipython --pylab qt


>
> I know it's late in the game to be commenting on this, but that's an unpleasant
> change. I see an ArgParseConfigLoader, but it seems unfinished and unused.

I don't know if it's unfinished, but it's definitely unused.

The KeyValue command-line args are definitely not as nice as argparse.
 The advantage, though, is that 100% of configurable IPython is
available on the command-line, and adding/updating/changing
configurable traits themselves updates the command-line arguments and
helpstrings.  Specifying command-line args is also identical to
specifying the same values in a config file, so users familiar with
configuring IPython are also familiar with the command-line options.

It's a rough change, and it's going to be difficult/unattractive for
some people. If people really do hate it, we can drop back to argparse
in 0.12, but the net effect this change has had on the IPython code
base itself has been positive.

-MinRK

>
> --
> Robert Kern
>
> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
> ?that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
> ?an underlying truth."
> ? -- Umberto Eco
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 13:58:04 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:58:04 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <4E00CE1F.3000609@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin9GsqV5PQ_FWPxVuoK64Pi_drRvA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00CE1F.3000609@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=6SjpUXJUwcTmARF-qnfomcjSfBQ@mail.gmail.com>

Glad you were able to fix it.

I just pushed an update to the online docs, so they should be up to date now.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:00, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> wrote:
> ok found the problem : I still had the ipython-newapp source code in the
> same dir as the new ipython, I did everything from this new ipython dir,
> but at execution it was looking into ipython-newapp. Obviously there is
> something I was not expecting.... Anyway now it works.
>
> sorry again,
> Johann
>
> On 06/21/2011 06:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
>>> ?git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
>>> I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff related
>>> to
>>> python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
>>> then :
>>> python setup.py install
>>> --prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python
>>>
>>> perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the native
>>> python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having
>>> /afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top
>>> of
>>> PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed with
>>> python?
>>
>> If it was installed with setuptools/easy_install, yes - they inject
>> packages at the front sys.path at runtime, ending up ahead of
>> PYTHONPATH. easy_installed packages can even come before '.'.
>>
>> You can check which one you are importing by looking at
>> `IPython.__file__`.
>>
>> It's possible that I've messed something up, but the source looks
>> right
>> (https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/profileapp.py#L127)
>>
>>> Anyway, I will continue investigating....
>>> sorry for the noise,
>>> JOhann
>>>
>>> On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>>> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ? ?wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of
>>>>> the
>>>>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see
>>>>> the
>>>>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>>>>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>>>>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start
>>>>> controllers
>>>>> and engines with various remote execution schemes. ?Currently supported
>>>>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque,
>>>>> SGE),
>>>>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>>>>
>>>>> ?|_____>
>>>>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>>>>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>>>>> or
>>>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>>>>
>>>>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option
>>>>> AFAICT,
>>>>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
>>>>
>>>> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed
>>>> '--parallel'.
>>>>
>>>>> best,
>>>>> Johann
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and
>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your
>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>> environment. ?There's no reason to change your interactive config just
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -MinRK
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>>>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ? ? ?wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default
>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we
>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following
>>>>>>> Min's
>>>>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I
>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the
>>>>>>> parallel lsf
>>>>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> 2?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best,
>>>>>>> Johann
>


From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 14:19:58 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:19:58 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <201106211115.19408.hans_meine@gmx.net>
	<BANLkTinj3ywRhX4kqoEDVj64obMfa7XGCg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin4eQ2eap=s29qEMvg6810YrCzLLg@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 June 2011 18:33, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

> SVG usage as header logo is interesting idea, although a bit avant
> garde, as I'm not sure how wide spread is this approach and what are
> browser considerations with embedded fonts.
>
> Then how browsers renders this fonts? For example IE9 font rendering
> engine looks very different then FireFox or IE8 or other browsers.
>
> What would be difference if we use vector objects instead fonts?
> And is SVG font rendered, subpixel antialiased or standard antialiased?
>
> About "@font-face directive in CSS" I'm not sure what you mean?
>

I don't know the details of font rendering, but if we converted it to letter
shapes, it should look the same on any supporting browser, I think. Then we
could include a PNG as a fallback.

@font-face is a way to load a reference to a font that you can then use in a
CSS font-family definition. Most browsers now support it, although IE only
had partial support until v9 (http://caniuse.com/#feat=fontface ). Browsers
that don't support it would just use fallback font families as is normal
with CSS.



> At the end, I'm not sure also about "[y]" size/spacing reconsiderations?
> Do you expect me to redo logos or you can choose font without redoing? I
> think this is not that big drawback and we can choose font besides it,
> afterwhich I'll adjust elements on chosen font (in case of Droid it
> already looks fine to me)
>
> And if you have other font ideas, point at it
>

The top ones look fine to me, but I'll let other people comment on
typographic matters! Hope this isn't getting too frustrating - we should
have a decision soon.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 14:40:34 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:40:34 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Fw: Re:  Website
Message-ID: <20110621204032.1030.B1C76292@gmail.com>

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 19:19:58 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know the details of font rendering, but if we converted it to letter
> shapes, it should look the same on any supporting browser, I think. Then we
> could include a PNG as a fallback. 

AFAIK subpixel rendering is only applied to fonts. Images don't have 
that possibility (information) unless you hardcode that effect (or use 
some format as DjVu) 


> @font-face is a way to load a reference to a font that you can then use in a
> CSS font-family definition. Most browsers now support it, although IE only
> had partial support until v9 (http://caniuse.com/#feat=fontface ). Browsers
> that don't support it would just use fallback font families as is normal
> with CSS.

Sorry, but I still don't get it. What will you reference with that 
directive? Do you mean to put logo as text in html?


> The top ones look fine to me, but I'll let other people comment on
> typographic matters! Hope this isn't getting too frustrating - we should
> have a decision soon.

No. I was asking as I wasn't sure if you are implying to redo.
I'm in Droid from those samples


Cheers



From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 14:56:19 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:56:19 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110621204032.1030.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <20110621204032.1030.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110621205613.1034.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:40:34 +0200
Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

> > I don't know the details of font rendering, but if we converted it to letter
> > shapes, it should look the same on any supporting browser, I think. Then we
> > could include a PNG as a fallback. 
> 
> AFAIK subpixel rendering is only applied to fonts. Images don't have 
> that possibility (information) unless you hardcode that effect (or use 
> some format as DjVu) 


Small update (for LCD on Windows 7): 

If text in SVG is as vector object instead font then is rendered without subpixel aa
If text in SVG is as text object then is rendered with subpixel aa

I checked on IE9 and FireFox 5


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 15:37:21 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 12:37:21 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=9VhZUkpJ80pKav-CBcuWnQrc8Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>
	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>
	<itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>
	<itqhue$rl9$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=9VhZUkpJ80pKav-CBcuWnQrc8Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=EQ0VT=VH=8KV-7UYB7WyAVfJ5sg@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:50 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:47, Robert Kern <robert.kern at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 6/21/11 11:20 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:12, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com> ? wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com> ? wrote:
>>>>>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>>>>>> honoring -pylab with a single dash. ?We've talked about this before,
>>>>>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>>>>>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>>>>>> support. ?I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>>>>>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>>>>>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'. ?Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab"
>>>> for the pylab profile?
>>>
>>> -pylab is rejected as an invalid argument, just as anything prefixed with just one leading '-'. Flags currently require a '--' prefix, but that is entirely artificial. Allowing the shorter leading '-' is a trivial change, and might ease the transition for people.
>>
>> Well, yes. Changing "-i" to "--i" is just gratuitous, as is disallowing the
>> short aliases for "-p/--profile" and "-l/--log". It makes IPython more
>> non-standard in addition to backwards-incompatible.
>
> The only reason '-' is not allowed for flags now is in case we want to
> add something like short aliases.
>
>> The manual parsing in
>> KeyValueConfigLoader exacerbates this (e.g. it seems to require
>> "--profile=scipy" rather than "--profile scipy" like most applications would
>> accept).
>
> Command-line args are unambiguous - flags, prefixed with `--` *never*
> take arguments, and setting values is always simply a Python
> assignment, thus never prefixed by '-', so now specifying which pylab
> backend to use and using the auto backend are different:
>
> # use matplotlib default:
> ipython --pylab # equivalent to ipython pylab=auto
> # specify Qt:
> ipython pylab=qt
>
> Neither of the following works:
> ipython --pylab=qt
> ipython --pylab qt
>
>
>>
>> I know it's late in the game to be commenting on this, but that's an unpleasant
>> change. I see an ArgParseConfigLoader, but it seems unfinished and unused.
>
> I don't know if it's unfinished, but it's definitely unused.

Yes, this is an important point that we will have to highlight and
clarify in the docs.  We have *completely* moved away from the
argparse style command line parsing.

> The KeyValue command-line args are definitely not as nice as argparse.
> ?The advantage, though, is that 100% of configurable IPython is
> available on the command-line, and adding/updating/changing
> configurable traits themselves updates the command-line arguments and
> helpstrings. ?Specifying command-line args is also identical to
> specifying the same values in a config file, so users familiar with
> configuring IPython are also familiar with the command-line options.

I am biased because I helped to design the new config system and
command line parsing, but I
do think the new style is a much better approach for IPython that
users will quickly adapt to
and like.  Personally, I actually like this command line syntax
*better* than that of argparse as
it looks more like Python code (it is!) and has a very attractive
uniformity between the code,
command line and config files.  I won't deny though that it is a huge
change though.

Cheers,

Brian

> It's a rough change, and it's going to be difficult/unattractive for
> some people. If people really do hate it, we can drop back to argparse
> in 0.12, but the net effect this change has had on the IPython code
> base itself has been positive.




> -MinRK
>
>>
>> --
>> Robert Kern
>>
>> "I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
>> ?that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
>> ?an underlying truth."
>> ? -- Umberto Eco
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From robert.kern at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 15:47:42 2011
From: robert.kern at gmail.com (Robert Kern)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:47:42 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Helping battle testing the newapp branch
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=9VhZUkpJ80pKav-CBcuWnQrc8Zg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinLBDzFsxXyMGHdvUMPkrVtgLAxeA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTinNMFBMeK2WDswXJ6JHamC6wBU1dA@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=axnENBDsvsCO-OUmUs586x9Vo1Q@mail.gmail.com>	<BANLkTi=ALwo515vamRr-rKXG68LpnRPZAw@mail.gmail.com>	<6AB57500-429E-425A-A587-9FA914672D85@gmail.com>	<itqfti$eoq$1@dough.gmane.org>	<9C35B0E7-6BDE-4AD9-96FB-B9A31437AEA4@gmail.com>	<itqhue$rl9$1@dough.gmane.org>
	<BANLkTi=9VhZUkpJ80pKav-CBcuWnQrc8Zg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <itqsgv$vh0$1@dough.gmane.org>

On 6/21/11 12:50 PM, MinRK wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:47, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> On 6/21/11 11:20 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>
>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 9:12, Robert Kern<robert.kern at gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 6/21/11 10:23 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jun 21, 2011, at 1:05, Fernando Perez<fperez.net at gmail.com>     wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2011 at 9:22 PM, MinRK<benjaminrk at gmail.com>     wrote:
>>>>>>> newapp has been merged into master.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> BTW, I think we should add back the (ugly, I know) special-case of
>>>>>> honoring -pylab with a single dash.  We've talked about this before,
>>>>>> while it's ugly, this is written in *many* places, including books and
>>>>>> published papers, as the way to start ipython with plotting/numerical
>>>>>> support.  I think it's worth the friendliness to users who arrive via
>>>>>> that path to have that option just work, even if it means an ugly two
>>>>>> lines of code special-casing '-pylab' in sys.argv...
>>>>>
>>>>> It doesn't have to be ugly - we could easily allow flags to be specified with one or two leading '-'.  Currently, one '-' cannot be valid, so it is safe to allow it.
>>>>
>>>> Well, '-pylab' gets parsed the same as '-p ylab'. Maybe just add an alias "ylab"
>>>> for the pylab profile?
>>>
>>> -pylab is rejected as an invalid argument, just as anything prefixed with just one leading '-'. Flags currently require a '--' prefix, but that is entirely artificial. Allowing the shorter leading '-' is a trivial change, and might ease the transition for people.
>>
>> Well, yes. Changing "-i" to "--i" is just gratuitous, as is disallowing the
>> short aliases for "-p/--profile" and "-l/--log". It makes IPython more
>> non-standard in addition to backwards-incompatible.
>
> The only reason '-' is not allowed for flags now is in case we want to
> add something like short aliases.
>
>> The manual parsing in
>> KeyValueConfigLoader exacerbates this (e.g. it seems to require
>> "--profile=scipy" rather than "--profile scipy" like most applications would
>> accept).
>
> Command-line args are unambiguous - flags, prefixed with `--` *never*
> take arguments, and setting values is always simply a Python
> assignment, thus never prefixed by '-', so now specifying which pylab
> backend to use and using the auto backend are different:
>
> # use matplotlib default:
> ipython --pylab # equivalent to ipython pylab=auto
> # specify Qt:
> ipython pylab=qt
>
> Neither of the following works:
> ipython --pylab=qt
> ipython --pylab qt

Okay, I was under a misapprehension, then.

>> I know it's late in the game to be commenting on this, but that's an unpleasant
>> change. I see an ArgParseConfigLoader, but it seems unfinished and unused.
>
> I don't know if it's unfinished, but it's definitely unused.

By "unfinished", I meant that one still needs to implement a method to configure 
it. It can't determine what arguments it allows from a data structure in the 
same way that KeyValueConfigLoader does.

And PS: *please* stop Ccing me. I'm subscribed to the list!

-- 
Robert Kern

"I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma
  that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had
  an underlying truth."
   -- Umberto Eco



From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 15:58:02 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:58:02 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4eQ2eap=s29qEMvg6810YrCzLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 June 2011 19:40, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

>  AFAIK subpixel rendering is only applied to fonts. Images don't have
> that possibility (information) unless you hardcode that effect (or use
> some format as DjVu)
>

OK, scratch that idea. I'd assumed it could antialias lines and curves in
the same way.


> > @font-face is a way to load a reference to a font that you can then use
> in a
> > CSS font-family definition. Most browsers now support it, although IE
> only
> > had partial support until v9 (http://caniuse.com/#feat=fontface ).
> Browsers
> > that don't support it would just use fallback font families as is normal
> > with CSS.
>
> Sorry, but I still don't get it. What will you reference with that
> directive? Do you mean to put logo as text in html?
>

Yes, you'd put the logo in as HTML, and style it with CSS. Newer browsers
let you reference fonts, so that you can use a font which isn't installed on
the user's computer. See Google's instructions for Droid Sans Mono, for
example:

http://www.google.com/webfonts/family?family=Droid+Sans+Mono&subset=latin#code


> > The top ones look fine to me, but I'll let other people comment on
> > typographic matters! Hope this isn't getting too frustrating - we should
> > have a decision soon.
>
> No. I was asking as I wasn't sure if you are implying to redo.
> I'm in Droid from those samples


If you've got spare time, it would be interesting to see them with the [y]
adjusted so that there's less space above the y (whether you move the y or
shrink the [ ] is up to you). But don't worry too much about it. Primarily
I'd like to get some more opinions - Brian, Min, Evan, you've all weighed in
on logos previously - what do you think of the different fonts Klonuo has
tried?

Thanks,
Thomas
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From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 16:15:12 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:15:12 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110621221505.1038.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:58:02 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, you'd put the logo in as HTML, and style it with CSS. Newer browsers
> let you reference fonts, so that you can use a font which isn't installed on
> the user's computer. See Google's instructions for Droid Sans Mono, for
> example:
> 
> http://www.google.com/webfonts/family?family=Droid+Sans+Mono&subset=latin#code
> 

So you are saying to use image only for IP[y]: part in logo and use html 
and webfont feature for description part? 

If it's not complicated for you to manage it, that could solve 
antialiasing thing, as we are not concerned about antialiasing 
in IP[y]: part as it uses large enough font


> If you've got spare time, it would be interesting to see them with the [y]
> adjusted so that there's less space above the y (whether you move the y or
> shrink the [ ] is up to you). But don't worry too much about it.

I'll wait on comments, then adjust winner font


> I'd like to get some more opinions - Brian, Min, Evan, you've all weighed in
> on logos previously - what do you think of the different fonts Klonuo has
> tried?

Maybe they don't browse topics named "Website" :D


Cheers


From epatters at enthought.com  Tue Jun 21 16:16:47 2011
From: epatters at enthought.com (Evan Patterson)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:16:47 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4eQ2eap=s29qEMvg6810YrCzLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>


On Jun 21, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:

> On 21 June 2011 19:40, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:
> AFAIK subpixel rendering is only applied to fonts. Images don't have
> that possibility (information) unless you hardcode that effect (or use
> some format as DjVu)
> 
> OK, scratch that idea. I'd assumed it could antialias lines and curves in the same way.
>  
> > @font-face is a way to load a reference to a font that you can then use in a
> > CSS font-family definition. Most browsers now support it, although IE only
> > had partial support until v9 (http://caniuse.com/#feat=fontface ). Browsers
> > that don't support it would just use fallback font families as is normal
> > with CSS.
> 
> Sorry, but I still don't get it. What will you reference with that
> directive? Do you mean to put logo as text in html?
> 
> Yes, you'd put the logo in as HTML, and style it with CSS. Newer browsers let you reference fonts, so that you can use a font which isn't installed on the user's computer. See Google's instructions for Droid Sans Mono, for example:
> 
> http://www.google.com/webfonts/family?family=Droid+Sans+Mono&subset=latin#code
>  
> > The top ones look fine to me, but I'll let other people comment on
> > typographic matters! Hope this isn't getting too frustrating - we should
> > have a decision soon.
> 
> No. I was asking as I wasn't sure if you are implying to redo.
> I'm in Droid from those samples
> 
> If you've got spare time, it would be interesting to see them with the [y] adjusted so that there's less space above the y (whether you move the y or shrink the [ ] is up to you). But don't worry too much about it. Primarily I'd like to get some more opinions - Brian, Min, Evan, you've all weighed in on logos previously - what do you think of the different fonts Klonuo has tried?

I like Droid Sans Mono. Quicksend is too dainty, and I don't like how low the y's are compared to the brackets in Inconsolata and Anonymous Pro. I believe Fernando made a similar comment about the placement of the 'y'.

Evan

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From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 16:29:30 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 21:29:30 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110621221505.1038.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110621221505.1038.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=rS9tZB5W34r6wa99CSOUh-4CZMg@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 June 2011 21:15, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> So you are saying to use image only for IP[y]: part in logo and use html
> and webfont feature for description part?
>
> If it's not complicated for you to manage it, that could solve
> antialiasing thing, as we are not concerned about antialiasing
> in IP[y]: part as it uses large enough font


Actually, I was thinking of doing the lot in html/css. I don't relish the
idea of trying to make it behave, but it does sidestep all the arguments
about subpixel antialiasing.

Let's do a PNG first, so we can get the website up, then worry about doing
anything clever later - as Fernando said before, the focus is on the
upcoming release (and it would be nice to have the website ready by then).

>Maybe they don't browse topics named "Website" :D

Maybe! I see Evan's responded (thanks, Evan). We'll give the others a bit
more time.

Thanks
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From johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 16:45:48 2011
From: johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com (Johann Cohen-Tanugi)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 22:45:48 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=6SjpUXJUwcTmARF-qnfomcjSfBQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
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	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00CE1F.3000609@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=6SjpUXJUwcTmARF-qnfomcjSfBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E0102FC.6010407@gmail.com>



On 06/21/2011 07:58 PM, MinRK wrote:
> Glad you were able to fix it.
I am still a bit puzzled by what I see in the 
$HOME/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py
I do not see c.Global, but for instance :
-bash-3.2$ grep engine_launcher ~/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/*
/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py:# 
c.IPClusterStart.engine_launcher_class = 'LSFEngineSetLauncher'
/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py:# 
c.IPClusterEngines.engine_launcher_class = 'LSFEngineSetLauncher'

(where LSF replaces Local as I just edited it)

Johann
> I just pushed an update to the online docs, so they should be up to date now.
thanks a lot. Where is it? 
http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/parallel/parallel_process.html seems 
to still be the old version....

best,
JCT
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:00, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com>  wrote:
>> ok found the problem : I still had the ipython-newapp source code in the
>> same dir as the new ipython, I did everything from this new ipython dir,
>> but at execution it was looking into ipython-newapp. Obviously there is
>> something I was not expecting.... Anyway now it works.
>>
>> sorry again,
>> Johann
>>
>> On 06/21/2011 06:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com>    wrote:
>>>> hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
>>>>   git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
>>>> I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff related
>>>> to
>>>> python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
>>>> then :
>>>> python setup.py install
>>>> --prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python
>>>>
>>>> perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the native
>>>> python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having
>>>> /afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top
>>>> of
>>>> PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed with
>>>> python?
>>> If it was installed with setuptools/easy_install, yes - they inject
>>> packages at the front sys.path at runtime, ending up ahead of
>>> PYTHONPATH. easy_installed packages can even come before '.'.
>>>
>>> You can check which one you are importing by looking at
>>> `IPython.__file__`.
>>>
>>> It's possible that I've messed something up, but the source looks
>>> right
>>> (https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/profileapp.py#L127)
>>>
>>>> Anyway, I will continue investigating....
>>>> sorry for the noise,
>>>> JOhann
>>>>
>>>> On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>>>> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>      wrote:
>>>>>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>>>>>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>>>>>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start
>>>>>> controllers
>>>>>> and engines with various remote execution schemes.  Currently supported
>>>>>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque,
>>>>>> SGE),
>>>>>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>   |_____>
>>>>>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>>>>>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>>>>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>>>>>> or
>>>>>>     $ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>>>>>
>>>>>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option
>>>>>> AFAICT,
>>>>>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
>>>>> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed
>>>>> '--parallel'.
>>>>>
>>>>>> best,
>>>>>> Johann
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and
>>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally
>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your
>>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>>> environment.  There's no reason to change your interactive config just
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -MinRK
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>>>>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr>        wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default
>>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>>> it's just noise.  I realize we now have a more consistent structure
>>>>>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we
>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default cases.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following
>>>>>>>> Min's
>>>>>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I
>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>>>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>>>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>>>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>>>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the
>>>>>>>> parallel lsf
>>>>>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> 2?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> best,
>>>>>>>> Johann


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 17:41:55 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:41:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] new doc for parallel sessions on clusters
In-Reply-To: <4E0102FC.6010407@gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikBWVXxOc2ZY_mrnh93H9--P2Zy4w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTink33n1H8t3uVxaSAMvSNhFTEZVzQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=1zFvsx-4GXv_=LMh3FMXq+jF22w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikQPNZpUkYEFMzWxrXQKnzMgVAbsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik4oMnThpgd2p2FBAFKVbfraSfSQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin5PvsY4O=dXQe0FF6dM325zwm6oQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=z4BOP0+07RDwptFeH1SfCerxY3w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTik06VPnHUNz=xGseXuWfRde8cv2jA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin8UZTYOjZVPYV3U6aUDPaKZRQs7w@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikzKBMX6eNxK0qohYhFeMqKGwcLpA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin0FsetmZiP_wN8Jpt6bO8oEdiMZw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTinw0XDdtVwB+R1VvBda8G=GAoCFkw@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E002819.4080504@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<9CDA3147-8799-48E5-AC35-6392F9A8D8D4@gmail.com>
	<4E00AA40.3070802@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
	<BANLkTinKVpnyB6JW+LxwNmkJXA_eDwEnLQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00C756.4080400@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikfH03GAXsyoZOzp7=AoLyX1K1fSQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E00CE1F.3000609@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=6SjpUXJUwcTmARF-qnfomcjSfBQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E0102FC.6010407@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=vNUYdhNV3xQujdvnOpQUkJzn-+A@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 13:45, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On 06/21/2011 07:58 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> Glad you were able to fix it.
>
> I am still a bit puzzled by what I see in the
> $HOME/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py
> I do not see c.Global, but for instance :
> -bash-3.2$ grep engine_launcher ~/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/*
> /u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py:#
> c.IPClusterStart.engine_launcher_class = 'LSFEngineSetLauncher'
> /u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_lsf/ipcluster_config.py:#
> c.IPClusterEngines.engine_launcher_class = 'LSFEngineSetLauncher'

Sorry, c.Global is not used for anything anymore.  The generated
default config files are accurate.

>
> (where LSF replaces Local as I just edited it)
>
> Johann
>>
>> I just pushed an update to the online docs, so they should be up to date
>> now.
>
> thanks a lot. Where is it?
> http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/parallel/parallel_process.html seems to
> still be the old version....

Oops, I managed to push the update to my own branch.  The real docs
are up to date now.

>
> best,
> JCT
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 10:00, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> ok found the problem : I still had the ipython-newapp source code in the
>>> same dir as the new ipython, I did everything from this new ipython dir,
>>> but at execution it was looking into ipython-newapp. Obviously there is
>>> something I was not expecting.... Anyway now it works.
>>>
>>> sorry again,
>>> Johann
>>>
>>> On 06/21/2011 06:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 09:31, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> ? ?wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> hmmm ok, after the merge is this the right way to get the code :
>>>>> ?git clone git://github.com/ipython/ipython.git ipython
>>>>> I removed the whole source directory, and the local install stuff
>>>>> related
>>>>> to
>>>>> python, and I started from scratch using the git command above.
>>>>> then :
>>>>> python setup.py install
>>>>> --prefix=/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/which python
>>>>>
>>>>> perhaps the problem is that there is an ipython installed with the
>>>>> native
>>>>> python that I use above, and I am wrong to assume that having
>>>>> /afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/.../site-packages at the top
>>>>> of
>>>>> PYTHONPATH is enough to ensure that it overrides the one installed with
>>>>> python?
>>>>
>>>> If it was installed with setuptools/easy_install, yes - they inject
>>>> packages at the front sys.path at runtime, ending up ahead of
>>>> PYTHONPATH. easy_installed packages can even come before '.'.
>>>>
>>>> You can check which one you are importing by looking at
>>>> `IPython.__file__`.
>>>>
>>>> It's possible that I've messed something up, but the source looks
>>>> right
>>>>
>>>> (https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/IPython/core/profileapp.py#L127)
>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I will continue investigating....
>>>>> sorry for the noise,
>>>>> JOhann
>>>>>
>>>>> On 06/21/2011 05:27 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 07:27, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>>>>>> <johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ? ? ?wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hi there, I tried to build the sphinx doc on my machine after a pull
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> head (after Min announced the merge of newapp into master), and I see
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> following in docs/source/parallel/parallel_process.txt :
>>>>>>> 1/ A trivial typo at :
>>>>>>> :command:`ipcluster` has a notion of Launchers that can start
>>>>>>> controllers
>>>>>>> and engines with various remote execution schemes. ?Currently
>>>>>>> supported
>>>>>>> models include :command:`ssh`, :command`mpiexec`, PBS-style (Torque,
>>>>>>> SGE),
>>>>>>> and Windows HPC Server.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ?|_____>
>>>>>>> should be :command:`mpiexec`
>>>>>>> 2/ I can read the following lines :
>>>>>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=mpi
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>> ? ?$ ipython profile create --parallel profile=pbs
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> while ipython profile create does *not* accept a --parallel option
>>>>>>> AFAICT,
>>>>>>> but rather --cluster or --no-cluster.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then you do not have current master, because the flag is indeed
>>>>>> '--parallel'.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best,
>>>>>>> Johann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 06/21/2011 07:37 AM, Min RK wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yes, it is going to be standard for the cluster profile and
>>>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>>>> IPython to be different - the profile for the Client is principally
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> connection info, and the shell profile is for configuring your
>>>>>>>> interactive
>>>>>>>> environment. ?There's no reason to change your interactive config
>>>>>>>> just
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> connect to a different cluster.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That said, the default profile of the Client should probably be that
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the current application, not just 'default'.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -MinRK
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jun 20, 2011, at 22:11, Johann
>>>>>>>> Cohen-Tanugi<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> ? ? ? ?wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> hi- I don't think we should print the profile name in the default
>>>>>>>>> case,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> it's just noise. ?I realize we now have a more consistent
>>>>>>>>>> structure
>>>>>>>>>> for profiles and even the default case is now a profile, but we
>>>>>>>>>> should
>>>>>>>>>> keep the amount of printed stuff to a minimum in the default
>>>>>>>>>> cases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Actually I have a question here : I was trying newapp, following
>>>>>>>>> Min's
>>>>>>>>> advice, to try to add the LSF support in parallel.apps. From what I
>>>>>>>>> could
>>>>>>>>> gather
>>>>>>>>> I did
>>>>>>>>> ipcluster start -p lsf -n 2
>>>>>>>>> which created profile_lsf in my $HOME/.ipython directory, but then
>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> started another terminal window for the ipython session, I typed
>>>>>>>>> ipython profile=lsf
>>>>>>>>> and this loaded the default profile, so that I had to type :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>>>>>>>> c = Client(profile='lsf')
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so that unless this is a bug or an operator mistake, there seems to
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>>> 'profiles' in such a use case : the ipython global one, and the
>>>>>>>>> parallel lsf
>>>>>>>>> one. I find that a bit confusing, and maybe there is a way to merge
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> 2?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> best,
>>>>>>>>> Johann
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 17:56:23 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:56:23 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
References: <20110621193331.BE09.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin4eQ2eap=s29qEMvg6810YrCzLLg@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110621203958.102D.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimOjdOxqckUT0fY3EktMsO86BZ8FA@mail.gmail.com>
	<010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Evan Patterson <epatters at enthought.com> wrote:
> I like Droid Sans Mono. Quicksend is too dainty, and I don't like how low
> the y's are compared to the brackets in Inconsolata and Anonymous Pro. I
> believe Fernando made a similar comment about the placement of the 'y'.

My thoughts precisely.

Having said that, I'm back to silent mode, so that any cycles I may
have go towards reviewing critical pull requests for the release.  We
can release with an ugly banner, not with major blocker bugs :)

Cheers,

f


From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 18:05:31 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:05:31 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
	<BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>

On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 14:56:23 -0700
Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Evan Patterson <epatters at enthought.com> wrote:
> > I like Droid Sans Mono. Quicksend is too dainty, and I don't like how low
> > the y's are compared to the brackets in Inconsolata and Anonymous Pro. I
> > believe Fernando made a similar comment about the placement of the 'y'.
> 
> My thoughts precisely.
> 
> Having said that, I'm back to silent mode, so that any cycles I may
> have go towards reviewing critical pull requests for the release.  We
> can release with an ugly banner, not with major blocker bugs :)


I attached enhanced banner some hours ago, with Droid Sans in standard 
and subpixel antialiasing versions, which can be used instead current 




From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 18:21:24 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:21:24 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>
References: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
	<BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>

On 21 June 2011 23:05, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:

>  I attached enhanced banner some hours ago, with Droid Sans in standard
> and subpixel antialiasing versions, which can be used instead current


Right, I've put that up on http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/ . I
think the standard anti-aliased version looks OK on an LCD screen.

If there's no objections, I'll flip the switch on this design tomorrow
evening. We can, of course, carry on tweaking later.

Klonuo, can we have an SVG version of the Droid Sans Mono banner, since that
seems to be what we're going with for now.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 18:27:30 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 15:27:30 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
	<BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikZnXrG4Awc+5HKhKc1GvHPeVNxZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Quicksend and Droid Sans are pretty nice, but the space around/above
the 'y' needs to be addressed (in all of them).

The logo actually on the website should *not* be SVG, it should be a
simple PNG for browser consistency.  The SVG is for keeping a source
so we can build new images for various sizes, etc., and make changes
most easily.

-MinRK

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 15:21, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 21 June 2011 23:05, Klonuo <klonuo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I attached enhanced banner some hours ago, with Droid Sans in standard
>> and subpixel antialiasing versions, which can be used instead current
>
> Right, I've put that up on http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/ . I
> think the standard anti-aliased version looks OK on an LCD screen.
>
> If there's no objections, I'll flip the switch on this design tomorrow
> evening. We can, of course, carry on tweaking later.
>
> Klonuo, can we have an SVG version of the Droid Sans Mono banner, since that
> seems to be what we're going with for now.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>


From klonuo at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 18:57:58 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 00:57:58 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110622005751.1040.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Tue, 21 Jun 2011 23:21:24 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> Klonuo, can we have an SVG version of the Droid Sans Mono banner, since that
> seems to be what we're going with for now.


Attached SVG files are with embedded font characters - won't work in
browsers but in vector application will (CorelDraw, Inkscape...)


Attached files:


1. IPy_Droid-Sans-Mono.svg

As in PDF sample


2. IPy_Droid-Sans-Mono_rev1.svg

"y" enlarged to match IP size and vertical placing 

In summary:

"[y]:" uses -15% kerning

Letters "IPy" follow text flow (bottom line) at size 36pt,
while symbols are at 30pt


3. logo_droid_rev1.png.png

Bitmap from above


Cheers
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Tue Jun 21 19:48:48 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:48:48 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010497E2-70C3-4745-8035-093A1204D3ED@enthought.com>
	<BANLkTimtxOj+dMTsz1ciwdvjWsP5Gp2qbQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<20110622000524.103C.B1C76292@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimO4CeB81F+65XN7DvkUA895XSLyw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikdEazyZG2wLjwVje6R4JnJM3zhWA@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Jun 21, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Right, I've put that up on http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/ . I
> think the standard anti-aliased version looks OK on an LCD screen.
>
> If there's no objections, I'll flip the switch on this design tomorrow
> evening. We can, of course, carry on tweaking later.

Awesome!

And modulo minor cleanups that are still in flight, I'd then like to
call for a friendly moratorium on all website design discussions for a
little while :)

I really, enormously appreciate the time you've all taken to help out
with this, and Klonuo's patience is commendable.  But I think it's
time we shift our attention completely from design back to content,
both in the code and even on the website.  Let's hold off on more
color/font/size debates for a few weeks, at least until we have 0.11
AND 0.12 done and released.

Thanks to all who have helped, and I hope it's clear that I don't have
the illusion that in a volunteer project, I can "tell" people how to
spend their time.  It's just that I'm worried that the clock is
ticking on a release, and right now I'm to my neck in
grant/talks/paper writing (most of it to benefit ipython in the long
haul) so I would like to see our collective energies directed now
towards not missing our long-promised 0.11 release.

Cheers,

f


From ischnell at enthought.com  Tue Jun 21 21:15:18 2011
From: ischnell at enthought.com (Ilan Schnell)
Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2011 20:15:18 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] ANN: ETS 4.0 released
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=FPrrP+mT80YTonmurQAD0XEDkFg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I am happy to announce the release of ETS 4.0.  This is the
first major release of the Enthought Tool Suite in almost
three years.  This release removes the 'enthought' namespace
from all projects.  For example:

    from enthought.traits.api import HasTraits

is now simply::

    from traits.api import HasTraits

For backwards compatibility, a proxy package 'etsproxy' has
been added, which should permit existing code to work.  For
convenience this package also contains a refactor tool 'ets3to4'
to convert projects to the new namespace (so that they don't
rely on the 'etsproxy' package).

If you want to download the source code of all ETS projects, you
can download http://www.enthought.com/repo/ets/ALLETS-4.0.0.tar (41MB).
The projects themselves are now hosted on: https://github.com/enthought

We understand that the namespace refactor (which prompted this
major release in the first place) is a big change, and even
though we have tested examples and some of our own code against
this ETS version, we expect there to be little glitches.  We are
therefore already planning a 4.0.1 bug-fix release in about 2-3
weeks.

We are looking forward to your feedback (the development mailing list
is enthought-dev at enthought.com), and hope you enjoy ETS 4.

- Ilan


From takowl at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 06:36:30 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:36:30 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] To do before 0.11 release
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=MWC=v5fAmpVjVY57JSrvZSSTiRA@mail.gmail.com>

What still needs to be done before 0.11 is released:

- Docs need to be updated (2 critical bugs)
- Checking things on Windows (5 critical bugs)
- Fix for unicode output on Windows (#529, pull request #534)

Plus I'd like to land pull requests 462 (making traitlets compatible with
Python 3) and 533 (removing dead code). As far as I know, both are ready and
passing all tests, but I'd like someone else to OK them.

Fernando, you're assigned on the docs bugs and one other critical bug. I
know you've got a lot to do, so

Thanks,
Thomas
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From johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 11:39:36 2011
From: johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com (Johann Cohen-Tanugi)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 17:39:36 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] client connection in shared filesystem for a farm of
	machines
Message-ID: <4E020CB8.6060006@gmail.com>

Hello,
I am using a farm of several machines, and I log in to it using ssh and 
a generic farm name, ending up on one specific machine depending on 
loads etc.... All the machines of the farm see the AFS filesystem, on 
which a json file was created when I fired ipcluster after a first login 
to the farm.
Then I start another terminal and log in again to the farm, ending up on 
another machine than the one the ipcluster is running on.
If I then do :
from IPython.parallel import Client
c = Client()

it hangs.... If I do:
c = 
Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
it returns :
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
TypeError                                 Traceback (most recent call last)
/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/test_directory/<ipython-input-3-9325a79c5ee0> 
in <module>()
----> 1 c = 
Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')

TypeError: __new__() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

so I guess the doc in 
http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/parallel/parallel_intro.html#getting-started 
needs a patch.

Finally if I do :
c = 
Client(url_or_file='/afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
it also hangs, while on the same ipython session I can immediately check :
In [8]: ls -ltr 
/afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json
-rw------- 1 cohen ec 130 Jun 22 08:06 
/afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json

that indeed the JSON file is accessible via the AFS file sharing.


I checked that if I forced connecting to the same machine instead of 
using the generic farm name,
c=Client() immediately returns with the engines attached and I can 
proceed normally.

Thanks in advance for the help,
johann


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 14:41:42 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 11:41:42 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] client connection in shared filesystem for a farm
 of machines
In-Reply-To: <4E020CB8.6060006@gmail.com>
References: <4E020CB8.6060006@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimUdOkTom6dZR4YhmzW1M3O=Sxq6Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 08:39, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello,
> I am using a farm of several machines, and I log in to it using ssh and
> a generic farm name, ending up on one specific machine depending on
> loads etc.... All the machines of the farm see the AFS filesystem, on
> which a json file was created when I fired ipcluster after a first login
> to the farm.
> Then I start another terminal and log in again to the farm, ending up on
> another machine than the one the ipcluster is running on.
> If I then do :
> from IPython.parallel import Client
> c = Client()
>
> it hangs.... If I do:
> c =
> Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
> it returns :
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> TypeError ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Traceback (most recent call last)
> /a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/test_directory/<ipython-input-3-9325a79c5ee0>
> in <module>()
> ----> 1 c =
> Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
>
> TypeError: __new__() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>
> so I guess the doc in
> http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/parallel/parallel_intro.html#getting-started
> needs a patch.

The docs are right - I just introduced a bug when I made the Client
inherit from HasTraits.  I pushed a simple fix to master, so it does
accept positional arguments.
I also included a fix for the 'hang', which is actually a units
problem in pyzmq's select - trying to connect to a nonexistent
controller will now timeout after 10 seconds (timeout is an arg in the
Client constructor, so you can make it shorter if you like).

>
> Finally if I do :
> c =
> Client(url_or_file='/afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
> it also hangs, while on the same ipython session I can immediately check :
> In [8]: ls -ltr
> /afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json
> -rw------- 1 cohen ec 130 Jun 22 08:06
> /afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json
>
> that indeed the JSON file is accessible via the AFS file sharing.
>
>
> I checked that if I forced connecting to the same machine instead of
> using the generic farm name,
> c=Client() immediately returns with the engines attached and I can
> proceed normally.

The Controller only listens on loopback by default for security
reasons. If you want to connect to a different machine, you must
instruct the Controller to listen on a public interface (e.g.
ip=0.0.0.0), which you should only do if your cluster is safely behind
a firewall. Otherwise, you must use ssh tunnels to connect to the
Controller, via the Client's 'ssh' arg.

-MinRK

>
> Thanks in advance for the help,
> johann
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From jason-sage at creativetrax.com  Wed Jun 22 14:52:01 2011
From: jason-sage at creativetrax.com (Jason Grout)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:52:01 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] Website
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTik=1f2iXUDJUZv5ss8iod0A80bsrg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E0239D1.4010801@creativetrax.com>

On 6/20/11 7:53 AM, Thomas Kluyver wrote:
> This is now RC1 for the new website:
>
> http://takluyver.github.com/ipython-website/
>


A short comment (yes, I saw there was a moratorium; I'm just posting so 
that the comment doesn't get lost when website work is renewed :).  I 
notice lots of links to .html files.  For example, on the front page, 
you have:

`More news... <news.html>`_

Wouldn't it be better to use the sphinx linking syntax [1], so you could 
do something like this instead:

:doc:`More news... <news>`

That way you aren't hardcoding in the .html filename, so presumably 
links would work in other formats as well.  You could also explicitly 
add a label and use a :ref: link instead.

Thanks,

Jason


[1] http://sphinx.pocoo.org/markup/inline.html


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 22 16:40:03 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2011 13:40:03 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] client connection in shared filesystem for a farm
 of machines
In-Reply-To: <4E024EF1.9000709@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
References: <4E020CB8.6060006@gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimUdOkTom6dZR4YhmzW1M3O=Sxq6Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<4E024EF1.9000709@lupm.univ-montp2.fr>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinzQpHJ-bZWOc-1EmZ6YNeAJOm=aA@mail.gmail.com>

Sorry, A recent pull request broke the Controller. Should be fixed now.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 13:22, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
<johann.cohen-tanugi at lupm.univ-montp2.fr> wrote:
> hmm, I just did a "git pull", but now when starting the controller I get :
> [IPClusterStart] [IPEngineApp] Using existing profile dir:
> '/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default'
> [IPClusterStart] ERROR:root:Error in periodic callback
> [IPClusterStart] Traceback (most recent call last):
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/afs/slac/g/glast/users/cohen/IPYDEV/local/lib/python2.6/site-packages/zmq/eventloop/ioloop.py",
> line 432, in _run
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? self.callback()
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/parallel/controller/heartmonitor.py",
> line 112, in beat
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? map(self.handle_new_heart, newhearts)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/parallel/controller/heartmonitor.py",
> line 123, in handle_new_heart
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? handler(heart)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/parallel/controller/hub.py",
> line 530, in handle_new_heart
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? self.finish_registration(heart)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/parallel/controller/hub.py",
> line 977, in finish_registration
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? control=control, heartbeat=heart)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/utils/traitlets.py",
> line 420, in __init__
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? setattr(self, key, value)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/utils/traitlets.py",
> line 302, in __set__
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? new_value = self._validate(obj, value)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/utils/traitlets.py",
> line 310, in _validate
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? return self.validate(obj, value)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/utils/traitlets.py",
> line 967, in validate
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? self.error(obj, value)
> [IPClusterStart] ? File
> "/a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/ipython/IPython/utils/traitlets.py",
> line 333, in error
> [IPClusterStart] ? ? raise TraitError(e)
> [IPClusterStart] TraitError: The 'control' trait of an EngineConnector
> instance must be a string, but a value of
> u'218df526-7c37-4bb1-bb57-652ce02cd122' <type 'unicode'> was specified.
> [IPClusterStart] INFO:IPControllerApp:heartbeat::ignoring new heart:
> '218df526-7c37-4bb1-bb57-652ce02cd122'
>
>
> On 06/22/2011 08:41 PM, MinRK wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 08:39, Johann Cohen-Tanugi
>> <johann.cohentanugi at gmail.com> ?wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello,
>>> I am using a farm of several machines, and I log in to it using ssh and
>>> a generic farm name, ending up on one specific machine depending on
>>> loads etc.... All the machines of the farm see the AFS filesystem, on
>>> which a json file was created when I fired ipcluster after a first login
>>> to the farm.
>>> Then I start another terminal and log in again to the farm, ending up on
>>> another machine than the one the ipcluster is running on.
>>> If I then do :
>>> from IPython.parallel import Client
>>> c = Client()
>>>
>>> it hangs.... If I do:
>>> c =
>>>
>>> Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
>>> it returns :
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> TypeError ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Traceback (most recent call
>>> last)
>>>
>>> /a/wain006/g.glast.u54/cohen/IPYDEV/test_directory/<ipython-input-3-9325a79c5ee0>
>>> in<module>()
>>> ----> ?1 c =
>>>
>>> Client('/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
>>>
>>> TypeError: __new__() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)
>>>
>>> so I guess the doc in
>>>
>>> http://ipython.org/ipython-doc/dev/parallel/parallel_intro.html#getting-started
>>> needs a patch.
>>
>> The docs are right - I just introduced a bug when I made the Client
>> inherit from HasTraits. ?I pushed a simple fix to master, so it does
>> accept positional arguments.
>> I also included a fix for the 'hang', which is actually a units
>> problem in pyzmq's select - trying to connect to a nonexistent
>> controller will now timeout after 10 seconds (timeout is an arg in the
>> Client constructor, so you can make it shorter if you like).
>>
>>> Finally if I do :
>>> c =
>>>
>>> Client(url_or_file='/afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json')
>>> it also hangs, while on the same ipython session I can immediately check
>>> :
>>> In [8]: ls -ltr
>>>
>>> /afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json
>>> -rw------- 1 cohen ec 130 Jun 22 08:06
>>>
>>> /afs/slac/u/ec/cohen/.config/ipython/profile_default/security/ipcontroller-client.json
>>>
>>> that indeed the JSON file is accessible via the AFS file sharing.
>>>
>>>
>>> I checked that if I forced connecting to the same machine instead of
>>> using the generic farm name,
>>> c=Client() immediately returns with the engines attached and I can
>>> proceed normally.
>>
>> The Controller only listens on loopback by default for security
>> reasons. If you want to connect to a different machine, you must
>> instruct the Controller to listen on a public interface (e.g.
>> ip=0.0.0.0), which you should only do if your cluster is safely behind
>> a firewall. Otherwise, you must use ssh tunnels to connect to the
>> Controller, via the Client's 'ssh' arg.
>>
>> -MinRK
>>
>>> Thanks in advance for the help,
>>> johann
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IPython-dev mailing list
>>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>>
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Thu Jun 23 17:25:30 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:25:30 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] website banner filename change
Message-ID: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>

Hey,

thanks to everyone for the work on the site, it looks great and it's
now live at ipython.org!

Thomas, quick thing: could you change the name of the banner file to
something other than 'banner'?  The reason for this odd request is
that I noticed that in certain configurations, AdBlock will block any
image file called 'banner.png'.  So anyone who goes to our site and
happens to have adblock installed with those settings simply won't see
our banner at all, and they won't even know there's a problem, they'll
simply see the site without the banner anywhere (and hence, will have
no navigation pointer back to the homepage either).

It seems safest simply to name it something else, like header_logo, or
anything that doesn't match an aggressive *banner* regexp...

Thanks!

f


From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 23 17:53:46 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:53:46 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] website banner filename change
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>

On 23 June 2011 22:25, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> It seems safest simply to name it something else, like header_logo, or
> anything that doesn't match an aggressive *banner* regexp...


Done. It's now IPy_header.png :-)

Thomas
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From fperez.net at gmail.com  Thu Jun 23 17:54:45 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2011 14:54:45 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] website banner filename change
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimDSCeQuE9w8K82ARqGO17MYRMY_Q@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Jun 23, 2011 at 2:53 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Done. It's now IPy_header.png :-)
>

Great, thanks!  I now see our beautiful banner with all my browsers :)

Best,

f


From klonuo at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 09:47:50 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:47:50 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] website banner filename change
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110624154748.B254.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:53:46 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 June 2011 22:25, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > It seems safest simply to name it something else, like header_logo, or
> > anything that doesn't match an aggressive *banner* regexp...
> 
> 
> Done. It's now IPy_header.png :-)
> 
> Thomas

Looks good :)

Although I attached PNG/SVG logo that covered complains about empty
spacing in brackets etc, as revision 1 in latest SVG attachments, but
anyway it looks much better then previous logo and miles away then old
rusty logo :D

Footer (c) font is still unnecessary too big if I may notice


From klonuo at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 09:50:03 2011
From: klonuo at gmail.com (Klonuo)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 15:50:03 +0200
Subject: [IPython-dev] website banner filename change
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimSuQz721PfV3ASQ61=wX+==oUM1g@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTin1dw1q6gYB+WfpKMFEPu2Sao6ibQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20110624154957.B25B.B1C76292@gmail.com>


On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 22:53:46 +0100
Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 23 June 2011 22:25, Fernando Perez <fperez.net at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > It seems safest simply to name it something else, like header_logo, or
> > anything that doesn't match an aggressive *banner* regexp...
> 
> 
> Done. It's now IPy_header.png :-)
> 
> Thomas

Sorry forgot previously to mention necessity of more top padding for
logo/header


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 14:01:38 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:01:38 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Requiring distribute on Windows
Message-ID: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

In the course of testing IPython.parallel on Windows, Min and I have
discovered that ipcluster won't work on Windows unless distribute is
installed and used to install IPython.  The reason is that setuptools
has a bug that interacts with multiprocessing in a subtle, nasty way.
Min has been using distribute all along for testing and dev., so we
didn't see it until now.  This leads to a question:

Should we required distribute to be installed and used to install
IPython on Windows?

I am not sure how this will affect the .msi installer.  We might be
able to relax the requirement for that installer as the command line
scripts are created differently.

Cheers,

Brian

-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 14:52:55 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:52:55 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Requiring distribute on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:01, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In the course of testing IPython.parallel on Windows, Min and I have
> discovered that ipcluster won't work on Windows unless distribute is
> installed and used to install IPython. ?The reason is that setuptools
> has a bug that interacts with multiprocessing in a subtle, nasty way.
> Min has been using distribute all along for testing and dev., so we
> didn't see it until now. ?This leads to a question:
>
> Should we required distribute to be installed and used to install
> IPython on Windows?

The issue is that distribute writes scripts with the traditional `if
__name__ == '__main__'` block, whereas
vanilla setuptools does not, breaking any use of multiprocessing in
entry points on Windows (all child processes will enter the outer
loop, launching an infinite number of children).

I *have* figured out a way to catch this in the entry point itself
using inspect, so we shouldn't have to depend on distribute, if this
fix is acceptable:

https://github.com/minrk/ipython/commit/ab437a4d476f7819cf47a5dbb5ee6d40f66a7958

-MinRK

>
> I am not sure how this will affect the .msi installer. ?We might be
> able to relax the requirement for that installer as the command line
> scripts are created differently.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 15:20:07 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:20:07 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Requiring distribute on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=8sud4_xPrJ8jFDcEiQ1xkGGnFOw@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:01, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> In the course of testing IPython.parallel on Windows, Min and I have
>> discovered that ipcluster won't work on Windows unless distribute is
>> installed and used to install IPython. ?The reason is that setuptools
>> has a bug that interacts with multiprocessing in a subtle, nasty way.
>> Min has been using distribute all along for testing and dev., so we
>> didn't see it until now. ?This leads to a question:
>>
>> Should we required distribute to be installed and used to install
>> IPython on Windows?
>
> The issue is that distribute writes scripts with the traditional `if
> __name__ == '__main__'` block, whereas
> vanilla setuptools does not, breaking any use of multiprocessing in
> entry points on Windows (all child processes will enter the outer
> loop, launching an infinite number of children).
>
> I *have* figured out a way to catch this in the entry point itself
> using inspect, so we shouldn't have to depend on distribute, if this
> fix is acceptable:
>
> https://github.com/minrk/ipython/commit/ab437a4d476f7819cf47a5dbb5ee6d40f66a7958

I will look at this later today.  That would probably be better than
requiring distribute though.

Cheers,

Brian

> -MinRK
>
>>
>> I am not sure how this will affect the .msi installer. ?We might be
>> able to relax the requirement for that installer as the command line
>> scripts are created differently.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> --
>> Brian E. Granger
>> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
>> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPython-dev mailing list
>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 15:20:53 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:20:53 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Requiring distribute on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTi=8sud4_xPrJ8jFDcEiQ1xkGGnFOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTi=8sud4_xPrJ8jFDcEiQ1xkGGnFOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=bdcNOUjQ04P+yJXts5UJLvkC3og@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 12:20, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:01, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> In the course of testing IPython.parallel on Windows, Min and I have
>>> discovered that ipcluster won't work on Windows unless distribute is
>>> installed and used to install IPython. ?The reason is that setuptools
>>> has a bug that interacts with multiprocessing in a subtle, nasty way.
>>> Min has been using distribute all along for testing and dev., so we
>>> didn't see it until now. ?This leads to a question:
>>>
>>> Should we required distribute to be installed and used to install
>>> IPython on Windows?
>>
>> The issue is that distribute writes scripts with the traditional `if
>> __name__ == '__main__'` block, whereas
>> vanilla setuptools does not, breaking any use of multiprocessing in
>> entry points on Windows (all child processes will enter the outer
>> loop, launching an infinite number of children).
>>
>> I *have* figured out a way to catch this in the entry point itself
>> using inspect, so we shouldn't have to depend on distribute, if this
>> fix is acceptable:
>>
>> https://github.com/minrk/ipython/commit/ab437a4d476f7819cf47a5dbb5ee6d40f66a7958
>
> I will look at this later today. ?That would probably be better than
> requiring distribute though.

I discovered a cleaner check using multiprocessing instead of inspect:
https://github.com/minrk/ipython/commit/3d64c96440751be38fe2a61400134eec3609457e

>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian
>
>> -MinRK
>>
>>>
>>> I am not sure how this will affect the .msi installer. ?We might be
>>> able to relax the requirement for that installer as the command line
>>> scripts are created differently.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Brian
>>>
>>> --
>>> Brian E. Granger
>>> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
>>> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> IPython-dev mailing list
>>> IPython-dev at scipy.org
>>> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Brian E. Granger
> Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
> bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com
>


From fperez.net at gmail.com  Fri Jun 24 15:23:23 2011
From: fperez.net at gmail.com (Fernando Perez)
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:23:23 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Requiring distribute on Windows
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikTmyZiaW9MdazSA2xzT-kFs56VcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimh5Yu86fWGGM3rmbLFsx8YT66zqQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=WYV9w5Y=SeYRRNbEygFdNmnaVFA@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:52 AM, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I *have* figured out a way to catch this in the entry point itself
> using inspect, so we shouldn't have to depend on distribute, if this
> fix is acceptable:
>
> https://github.com/minrk/ipython/commit/ab437a4d476f7819cf47a5dbb5ee6d40f66a7958

It's not pretty, but seems tightly localized enough that it won't have
a big ripple effect, and hopefully post 0.11 we can spend some time
building the installation code to deploy ipython without requiring
either setuptools or distribute.

If we had a penny for every hour setuptools has cost us, we'd be rich :)

Cheers,

f


From erik.tollerud at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 03:41:21 2011
From: erik.tollerud at gmail.com (Erik Tollerud)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 02:41:21 -0500
Subject: [IPython-dev] No newapp gui=osx option?
Message-ID: <BANLkTin4qpsNdKbwVcsEgLuFk=vu-S2Cqw@mail.gmail.com>

There's some behavior in the newapp configuration system I don't
entirely understand under Mac OS X.  The "%gui" magic seems to still
accept the "osx" GUI integration (although it's not in the docstring),
but it doesn't work in the command line "gui=xxx" option.  On the
other hand, "pylab=osx" does seem to work.  Some I'm confused as to
why the "gui" option has no osx choice, but pylab does.

This may not matter, as the macosx backend it matplotlib seems to work
fine regardless of the state of the gui magic, but it's a bit
confusing what exactly the point of the osx option is, in that case.

-- 
Erik Tollerud


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 14:32:25 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (Min RK)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 11:32:25 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] No newapp gui=osx option?
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTin4qpsNdKbwVcsEgLuFk=vu-S2Cqw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTin4qpsNdKbwVcsEgLuFk=vu-S2Cqw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3A00D530-230F-496A-828E-088C765F1B51@gmail.com>

the GUI integration is for making IPython work with the eventloop of various GUI toolkits when the basic IPython won't.  Nothing needs to change for the Mac backend to work, so there is no special GUI integration for the mac eventloop.

The pylab flag selects the matplotlib backend *and* the appropriate eventloop integration, which for macosx is None.

-MinRK

On Jun 26, 2011, at 0:41, Erik Tollerud <erik.tollerud at gmail.com> wrote:

> There's some behavior in the newapp configuration system I don't
> entirely understand under Mac OS X.  The "%gui" magic seems to still
> accept the "osx" GUI integration (although it's not in the docstring),
> but it doesn't work in the command line "gui=xxx" option.  On the
> other hand, "pylab=osx" does seem to work.  Some I'm confused as to
> why the "gui" option has no osx choice, but pylab does.
> 
> This may not matter, as the macosx backend it matplotlib seems to work
> fine regardless of the state of the gui magic, but it's a bit
> confusing what exactly the point of the osx option is, in that case.
> 
> -- 
> Erik Tollerud
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Sun Jun 26 22:02:09 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Sun, 26 Jun 2011 19:02:09 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 update
Message-ID: <BANLkTimY4wBCUU219YbKzD+RuXu+SF7K0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

Another update on currently outstanding issues marked for 0.11, so we
can see how we are doing. I think we are quite close, and
documentation is really where the focus needs to be this week.  I'm
sure there are several places where docs and examples refer to stale
0.10 APIs or patterns.

critical issues:
---------

#281: pyreadline doesn't appear to play nice with the matplotlib qt
backend on Windows.  I don't know anything about how to address this
issue.
    J?rgen said that it does not affect the qtconsole (logical,
because the qtconsole doesn't use readline).

    This is a pretty big deal, but it doesn't *technically* appear to
be an IPython issue, though IPython is where interactive matplotlib
and pyreadline meet each other.
    It does *only* affect qt+terminal IPython with pyreadline, though.

#66: What's New.  It appears to be fairly up to date
(https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/docs/source/whatsnew/development.txt),
but anything devs notice as missing should be added. We can leave this
open as a reminder until the last minute.

#8: mayavi+qt - This appears to be fixed by the recently released
ETS4, but Evan said he will test to be sure

#269: mainloop() API - this code seems to be ready, so the issue now
just involves a doc update, and the embedding IPython docs and
examples don't appear to have been touched since 0.10, so they
obviously need to be revisited.  I've started working on this, and
I'll push updates probably this evening.

high:
-----

#440: qtconsole crash on %run completion on Linux+EPD when run from a
launcher without a terminal window - since this is solved by requiring
the qtconsole to have a terminal window, I'm not too concerned with
letting this stand in 0.11, though we should definitely figure it out.

#378: Windows path issues - Windows path completion appears to have
never been particularly good when using absolute paths and/or
backslash escapes.  I thought this was a bad regression, but when I
tried testing with 0.10, it doesn't appear to be any worse as far as I
can tell, though I am not well experienced with Windows.  Since fixing
this would be a major improvement over 0.10, rather than fixing a
regression, I'm okay with slipping to 0.12.  Any Windows developers
who can explore this would be much appreciated.


At this point, I think all medium and low priority issues will not
make the cut for 0.11, unless someone feels the need to take care of a
few of them.  Anyone who thinks we should block on one of these,
should suggest it be promoted to high/critical.  I don't think letting
these slip is a huge deal, since we plan to have a relatively quick
succession of releases as bugs are inevitably revealed once we
actually get 0.11 out the door.

I think we should be able to cut 0.11 (or possibly 0.11 rc1) by this
Friday, 07/01.

-MinRK


From takowl at gmail.com  Mon Jun 27 06:35:15 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2011 11:35:15 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] 0.11 update
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimY4wBCUU219YbKzD+RuXu+SF7K0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimY4wBCUU219YbKzD+RuXu+SF7K0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=xtB_D_Zjij9a_W7+_dZTNWzoM0Q@mail.gmail.com>

On 27 June 2011 03:02, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> #66: What's New.  It appears to be fairly up to date
> (
> https://github.com/ipython/ipython/blob/master/docs/source/whatsnew/development.txt
> ),
> but anything devs notice as missing should be added. We can leave this
> open as a reminder until the last minute.


I made some updates to it a while back, but I don't know most of what's been
going on since the last release, so it could definitely do with other people
checking it.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 16:43:40 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 21:43:40 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] get_ipython() versus _ip
Message-ID: <BANLkTikpm7SjgFVBuDQ-Ew8O-7c0CxpByg@mail.gmail.com>

Something I've been wondering for a while now: in previous versions, the
user namespace had a reference to the shell object with a name like _ip. In
trunk, we've replaced that with a get_ipython() callable, which returns the
same reference. What was the reasoning behind that? I find that when I want
to use it, I inevitably end up typing "ip = get_ipython()", both for brevity
and so I get tab completion.

Thanks,
Thomas
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From ellisonbg at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 19:55:46 2011
From: ellisonbg at gmail.com (Brian Granger)
Date: Tue, 28 Jun 2011 16:55:46 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] get_ipython() versus _ip
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikpm7SjgFVBuDQ-Ew8O-7c0CxpByg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikpm7SjgFVBuDQ-Ew8O-7c0CxpByg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTimPR4_MTih+eBebBRNSbuUO19NbOw@mail.gmail.com>

The logic was that we want to minimize the things we insert into the
global namespace.
The name get_ipython is 1) less likely to run into collisions than
generic things like _ip and 2)
get_ipython suggest that it is a public API, whereas all of the _ and
__ names suggest that
it is a private API.

I know it is not great, but I like having something that is public but
we want to avoid name
collisions.  I am definitely open to ideas though.

Brian



On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Thomas Kluyver <takowl at gmail.com> wrote:
> Something I've been wondering for a while now: in previous versions, the
> user namespace had a reference to the shell object with a name like _ip. In
> trunk, we've replaced that with a get_ipython() callable, which returns the
> same reference. What was the reasoning behind that? I find that when I want
> to use it, I inevitably end up typing "ip = get_ipython()", both for brevity
> and so I get tab completion.
>
> Thanks,
> Thomas
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>
>



-- 
Brian E. Granger
Cal Poly State University, San Luis Obispo
bgranger at calpoly.edu and ellisonbg at gmail.com


From takowl at gmail.com  Tue Jun 28 20:15:09 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 01:15:09 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] get_ipython() versus _ip
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimPR4_MTih+eBebBRNSbuUO19NbOw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikpm7SjgFVBuDQ-Ew8O-7c0CxpByg@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTimPR4_MTih+eBebBRNSbuUO19NbOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinemSavknkK7t90dEyLY0vzGJjK4g@mail.gmail.com>

On 29 June 2011 00:55, Brian Granger <ellisonbg at gmail.com> wrote:

> The name get_ipython is 1) less likely to run into collisions than
> generic things like _ip and 2)
> get_ipython suggest that it is a public API, whereas all of the _ and
> __ names suggest that
> it is a private API.
>

That makes sense. I'd prefer to have a reference rather than a callable,
though.

Would it make sense to have a public reference called something like ipy,
and a backup copy called something like __ipy? The public name would act
like the built in variables - you can replace it if you want, but it's not
advised. Our own code would use the 'hidden' name, so magic functions etc.
would carry on working even if you did ipy = 2.

Then again, I'm comfortable with the idea of using 'hidden' name like _ip as
the only available name: it's a bit special, because it reaches outside of
the environment you're working in, so it makes sense to mark it as
different. It's also not something I'd expect most end users to be using
regularly.

Thomas
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From erik.tollerud at gmail.com  Wed Jun 29 22:45:52 2011
From: erik.tollerud at gmail.com (Erik Tollerud)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 19:45:52 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Connection info for qtconsole kernels
Message-ID: <BANLkTikJp5BRJDVXpxOb=TqMjjC-Twj+qw@mail.gmail.com>

I just noticed that on the current master, the message indicating the
connection details needed to use "--existing" are no longer printed
when an ipython qtconsole is started, but instead prints the kernel
pid.  Is this intentional?  Is there some way to output that
information when the first qtconsole is started, or retrieve it if I
know the kernel pid?  It seems to defeat the point of the --existing
option if it's impossible to get the information needed to make the
connection.

I know "--debug" includes the information, but printing all the debug
information to be able to connect a second console seems
confusing/difficult. (Oh, and the debug line says "--external
shell=##### iopub=##### stdin=##### hb=#####", which I think is
supposed to be "--existing shell=##### iopub=##### stdin=#####
hb=#####" - I can submit a bug report on that if desired, although it
seems pretty trivial)


On a related note, with the newapp configuration system is there any
way to connect to an already-existing kernel via a terminal-based
frontend, or is qtconsole currently the only way to do this?

-- 
Erik Tollerud


From benjaminrk at gmail.com  Wed Jun 29 23:18:58 2011
From: benjaminrk at gmail.com (MinRK)
Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2011 20:18:58 -0700
Subject: [IPython-dev] Connection info for qtconsole kernels
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikJp5BRJDVXpxOb=TqMjjC-Twj+qw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikJp5BRJDVXpxOb=TqMjjC-Twj+qw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTikTyPZYSAXJ12qfhymJLAsS5hroxw@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 19:45, Erik Tollerud <erik.tollerud at gmail.com> wrote:
> I just noticed that on the current master, the message indicating the
> connection details needed to use "--existing" are no longer printed
> when an ipython qtconsole is started, but instead prints the kernel
> pid. ?Is this intentional? ?Is there some way to output that
> information when the first qtconsole is started, or retrieve it if I
> know the kernel pid? ?It seems to defeat the point of the --existing
> option if it's impossible to get the information needed to make the
> connection.

I noticed this too, and actually fixed it a few hours ago in
https://github.com/ipython/ipython/commit/cc9aebe90611bde507fa6cf7206a4afda421179b

>
> I know "--debug" includes the information, but printing all the debug
> information to be able to connect a second console seems
> confusing/difficult. (Oh, and the debug line says "--external
> shell=##### iopub=##### stdin=##### hb=#####", which I think is
> supposed to be "--existing shell=##### iopub=##### stdin=#####
> hb=#####" - I can submit a bug report on that if desired, although it
> seems pretty trivial)
>
>
> On a related note, with the newapp configuration system is there any
> way to connect to an already-existing kernel via a terminal-based
> frontend, or is qtconsole currently the only way to do this?

There are plans for other two-process frontends, but there is not yet
a working terminal version.  Currently there is only the QtConsole in
master, and the html notebook is in a branch.

-MinRK

>
> --
> Erik Tollerud
> _______________________________________________
> IPython-dev mailing list
> IPython-dev at scipy.org
> http://mail.scipy.org/mailman/listinfo/ipython-dev
>


From takowl at gmail.com  Thu Jun 30 05:11:57 2011
From: takowl at gmail.com (Thomas Kluyver)
Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 10:11:57 +0100
Subject: [IPython-dev] Connection info for qtconsole kernels
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTikTyPZYSAXJ12qfhymJLAsS5hroxw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTikJp5BRJDVXpxOb=TqMjjC-Twj+qw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTikTyPZYSAXJ12qfhymJLAsS5hroxw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=50mTfLxqh5rZqSVb0Hk_2E9oBmA@mail.gmail.com>

On 30 June 2011 04:18, MinRK <benjaminrk at gmail.com> wrote:

> There are plans for other two-process frontends, but there is not yet
> a working terminal version.  Currently there is only the QtConsole in
> master, and the html notebook is in a branch.
>

There's a basic working prototype for a terminal frontend, although it's not
yet adapted to use newapp. It's here if you want to hack on it:

https://github.com/ipython/ipython/pull/433

Thomas
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