[IronPython] more pythonic than python ( end - REALLY)

fernando moreira fclm1000 at msn.com
Wed Jun 21 20:09:21 CEST 2006

First of all, i want to APOLOGIZE for still being here. My posts and their 
replies went out of topic and are not contributing for the development of 

So, this is my last post here. To anyone who wants to show  me my mistakes, 
i beg to point another forum where i would gladly reply (or send me an 

One thing that i would like to be clear is that i am glad for any effort of 
the open source community - does not matter if the sofware is or is not how 
i think it should be. I have a strong sympathy for their (yours) works. ;)

>For sure, i don´t want nor like a messy language with thousands of features 
>that would satisfy any randomic newbie wish. I want a compact,
 > clean, robust, simple, coerent and friendly language: everything that
>Python  promissed to be. Of course, such perfect language won´t 100% 
>satisfy everybody, but then it will be a case of "Love it or leave it".

It is interesting that you claim promises to have all the features you 
listed and yet you think it should break those features to be nice to 
newbies. As stated what you suggested is a matter of taste, therefore little 
long term value for the community.


I know that my english is far from perfect, but i think that my lines above 
were of  easy understanding. Anyway i will try to explain more. My point is 
(and was) that any language that is compact, robust, simple, clean, etc... 
is the best thing a newbie (and veterans probably) would like to have. Thus, 
there would be no need, nor room neither sense  for idiosyncratic annoying 
new features. I wrote very clear : *then it will be a case of "Love it or 
leave it".*  I did not write *then you love it and keep claiminig for new 
features*. Of course, i don´t think Python is compact, simple, pythonic, 
robust, etc.. as soon as i go a step deep inside it, except, obviouslly, 
when compared to C++ for example.

>If i understand well, the good developers of the language have too much 
>work to deal with changes that would fit in the fundamental principles over 
>  wich the language as prototyped (Zen of Python, for example) but are not 
>indispensable for make a piece of code works. I think that it is a pity 
>that they are too busy.

I don't think you understood correctly. They won't do what you suggest 
because they are too busy but because they don't believe it would add any 
value, and since the language already allows you to achieve it, why should 
they spend time on it?

My original post here was never about change Python. I was only asking if 
the IronPython team, had any project for start a NEW language, more pythonic 
than Python, after they finnish their present work.

When i wrote "the good developers of the language" i was NEVER talking about 
IronPython team. I was replying an e-mail that used exactly theese words and 
referred the "Benevolent Dictator For Life" (strange title, heh ?). And for 
all that i read inside and outside python.org i would never spend my time 
sugesting anything to them.

The point is not "how i think Python should be by my own concepts". The 
point is "how i think Python should be by it's concepts on it's own white 
paper (or something like that). Of course, there  still room for my 
subjectivity, but i think i am being neutral. ( I am talking about the 
language in general. I am not insisting about strings operation)..

Specifically answering your question about why should they spend time with 
features that don´t add any value since language already allows someone to 
achieve a task, i  say : EVOLUTION. I mean if the language is more 
expressive, less error prone, increases protuctivity, etc., with a new 
feature or the extinguishment of an old feature; than this change ADDS SOME 
VALUE to the language. If things were not this way you were not talking 
about python now, but about C or assembly ( they can do  OOP too ) or 
straight machine code :p.

Well, as said before, this is my last post here about this matter. I leave 
with the same ideas i had when i came.

Thank you all.

Good luck and good work !

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