[IronPython] Python Pages -- web application stack (like django, rails, ...)

Michael Foord fuzzyman at voidspace.org.uk
Thu Jun 12 11:40:42 CEST 2008

The Silverlight integration is a *great* idea - but there really are a 
lot of Python web frameworks and template languages out there. I'm 
afraid realistically you're unlikely to get more than a handful of users 
- but if you enjoy coding it then there is no reason to stop.

You might have more people *using* your code if you build good 
Silverlight support for one of the other web frameworks though.

Web frameworks:

PSP (Python Server Pages - with Python as a templating language I believe)
CherrPy (really an application server)
Zope and Plone
Twisted and Nevow
Quixote or Asyncore
Spyce (also uses Python as a templating language)

There are also plenty of templating languages:

Stan (used by Nevow)
ZPT (Zope)
SimpleTal (another Zope one)
Django template language
PTL (Python templating language used by Quixote)
Clearsilver (written in C with bindings for many languages)

Actually I disagree that yours uses Python - it uses something that 
looks a bit like Python...

I've never found indentation to be a problem in templating with Python. 
I (of course) have my own templating system that uses unadorned Python 
in templates - and I use it for rest2web (generate static html pages for 
a website from text source and templates) and Firedrop2 (Python blog 
client). You can see the templating system documented here:


All the best,

Michael Foord

Jonathan Slenders wrote:
> 2008/6/12 Jonathan Slenders <jonathan at slenders.be 
> <mailto:jonathan at slenders.be>>:
>     2008/6/12 Tim Roberts <timr at probo.com <mailto:timr at probo.com>>:
>         On Thu, 12 Jun 2008 01:09:01 +0200, "Jonathan Slenders"
>         <jonathan at slenders.be <mailto:jonathan at slenders.be>>
>             I'm working on a web application framework in Python, and
>             just uploaded the
>             first release.
>             Now I quote from my own README. What it actually does is:
>             - Provide an easy way to embed Python code into HTML,
>             similar to PHP, JPS
>             and other server side languages.
>             - Make reusing HTML very easy. It uses concepts like
>             master pages and
>              including of other pages as a control. This is a very
>             rich template
>              mechanism.
>             ...
>         May I ask what motivated you to create this from scratch?
>          There are a number of excellent Python web application
>         frameworks available today, several of which have syntax and
>         functionality almost exactly like yours.
>         I'm not trying to say you shouldn't do such a thing, but
>         people in the world at large already complain there are too
>         many web frameworks for Python.  I'm just wondering why you
>         didn't choose one of the existing frameworks that was close to
>         what you wanted, and become a contributor to that.  Was there
>         something you thought was fundamentally missing from the others?
>     Dear Tim,
>     You should know that I've been working on this project for about a
>     year and a half. Apart from Django, I didn't know even one
>     framework that I liked during this development. (Actually, at the
>     start I didn't know about Django, later on I did and realised it
>     was good but had my reasons not to use it. I'm not going to
>     discuss it now.)
>     All that time it's just been the back-end for my personal web site
>     - I had never the intend to publish it. But the framework became
>     gradually more and more extensive and since a half year I realized
>     that it was well designed and could compete with others.
>     Some of my best friends are very active Django users, and when I
>     showed my framework, they also said that it was pretty similar to
>     that.
>     If you know that many Python web frameworks, I'd really like to
>     hear about it. (I've seen several, yes, but some were very
>     outdated and and not maintained anymore)
>     Because I don't know much of them it's hard to say what I missed.
>     But what I wanted was:
>     - query parameters should be available as variables, but they
>     shouldn't be unpacked by default as was in PHP years ago (I want
>     to declare the variables that should be accepted)
>     - It *should* work perfectly well without database. (at the start
>     of this project, my hosting had no database)
>     - code should be reusable with master pages like ASP.net does
>     - when a master page is stored in another directory than the url's
>     ("<a href=...".) should be rewritten in a way so that they are
>     always reusable to the page from where the are generated
>     - form input fields should be available as objects.
>     Again, I didn't know any framework that does all this. Django
>     needs a database (not?) and the others which I found were crap,
>     sorry....
>     Jonathan
> OK, I have to take my word back. Django can run without database. But 
> still, it's totally different, it has a custom template language, 
> while I'm actually using Python itself als template language. Pylons 
> -- what I just found -- also seems to have a custom (and thus limited) 
> template language. I think this is unique, isn't it?
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