[IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
adamb at silverkeytech.com
Tue Aug 4 17:58:02 CEST 2009
Any update on the source code availability for IPY for ASP.Net?
On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 3:11 PM, Jimmy Schementi <
Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
> I completely agree with your points; we have a finite amount of resources
> and choose to focus on language compatibility over .NET web-stack
> integration. Though IronPython has done that web-work in the past, we’re
> purely focused on compat. I’ve forwarded on the previous mail to the
> ASP.NET team; I want to see IronPython and IronRuby be used on the web
> more too. =)
> That being said, *I’ve just finished packaging up
> Microsoft.Web.Scripting.dll that works against the released IronPython 2
> Beta 1, and I’ll be releasing it either today to tomorrow* … so end of
> conversation? =P Na, I this is a good conversation to have, but in short
> you’ll be able to use IronPython 2 Beta 1 in ASP.NET very soon again.
> Hopefully the next beta of IronPython 2.6 will include the DLL and source,
> otherwise I’ll make this package again.
> *From:* Dody Gunawinata [mailto:empirebuilder at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2009 4:23 AM
> *To:* Jimmy Schementi
> *Cc:* Discussion of IronPython
> *Subject:* Re: [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
> The refresh was unusable because it contained the version of IronPyton that
> is not compatible with .Net 3.5 framework (I think it was built on IP 2.0
> Beta 3/4);
> I'm griping about this issue in this list because I don't think this is a
> completely separate issue from the DLR programming languages. Maybe it is
> not a direct responsibility of this team, but the impact is direct for the
> following reasons:
> - Nobody adopts a language as is. The libraries matters. The existing
> community of Python and Ruby are not going to move to Windows platform just
> because IronPython and IronRuby are being worked on and released. They have
> had a multi platform runtimes with de facto standards that are capable of
> doing wonderful things for more than a decade.
> - There is much bigger market for language adoption for existing
> .Net/Windows based developers (and new developers) and these guys/gals are
> using mostly standard Microsoft stacks. And they are using .Net via mainly
> C# and VB.Net. If the DLR languages do not have proper support at least for
> the major technology stacks (I would consider ASP.Net/Silverlight as major
> stacks), many people will not consider using the DLR based language for
> their production systems.
> - I know ASP.Net MVC is open source and it's free to be extended etc,
> but ASP.Net WebForm have be en deployed massively and that's not going to
> change anytime soon. And theres is already a support, albeit poor and not up
> to date, for ASP.Net webform stacks in IronPython. Not having it fully
> updated is a waste of opportunity.
> - .Net 4.0 and C# vNext contains dynamic language support but really,
> what is good for if the DLR languages can only be used in much more limited
> scenarios because some major technology stacks are not supported.
> - You raised correctly that Django and RoR are being used to validate
> the languages. But I would argue that the existing technology stack support
> validates the DLR platform, not just the languages.
> So yes, I'm not happy with the level of investment being put on supporting
> the technology stacks because I think it is pretty short sighted. No, I
> don't blame this team for this but at least if I complain on this list, it
> might have a chance being forwarded internally because this is one of the
> best community mailing list for Microsoft technologies.
> Dody Gunawinata
> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Jimmy Schementi <
> Jimmy.Schementi at microsoft.com> wrote:
> First off, it hasn’t been three years: a refresh was released 8 months ago,
> and sent to this very list:
> Secondly, rather than just producing these one off releases (where are very
> taxing on the team), we’re doing it right and getting the source code
> released and Ms-Pl’d, so we can include it on Codeplex sources, builds, and
> nightly builds. Then it can be included in each IronPython release, just
> like Silverlight binaries are.
> Lastly, IronRuby and IronPython are programming languages, made by
> programming language teams. We’re very interested in running as many
> existing Ruby and Python programs as possible. It just so happens that
> Django and Rails are popular, complex pieces of software that help find
> bugs, and give the languages street cred for running them. If those web
> frameworks didn’t run, theirs probably something wrong with our language.
> Running in ASP.NET and MVC require a significant amount of work *outside*of the language, so it really isn’t a language team’s purpose to build that.
> Sure they provide good demos as conferences or blog posts, but they’ll only
> be toys. We’ve invested in those technologies before, which is why the
> ASP.NET and Silverlight integration exists, but no one is working on
> enabling web-technologies full-time (though I have spurts of diving back
> into Silverlight from time to time). If you don’t like the level of
> investment in dynamic languages for Microsoft web technologies, that’s
> something that you should communicate to the ASP.NET team; Phil Haack (
> http://www.haacked.com) or Dmitry Robsman (http://blogs.msdn.com/dmitryr)
> are good people to address.
> *From:* users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com [mailto:
> users-bounces at lists.ironpython.com] *On Behalf Of *Dody Gunawinata
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2009 1:22 PM
> *To:* Discussion of IronPython
> *Subject:* [IronPython] IronPython for ASP.Net
> Is there any update for IronPython for ASP.Net?
> It has been three years since IronPython support for ASP.Net introduced
> with the release of the whitepaper (
> http://www.asp.net/DynamicLanguages/whitepaper/) and the first binary.
> Since then I think we've had Katrina, a Beijing Olympic, a new President, a
> financial collapse and two James Bond movies - yet until now there is still
> no up to date support for the technology. I know that the legal team, etc
> are working on the source release, but I think it is pretty galling that
> Microsoft's own web framework stack is barely supported by its own dynamic
> language technology, both on the 'classic' ASP.Net and MVC stack. I mean
> there is more energy put into having IronPython and IronRuby to run Django
> and RubyOnRails web framework instead of ASP.Net stack. This just doesn't
> make sense to me.
> Users mailing list
> Users at lists.ironpython.com
Email: adamb at silverkeytech.com
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