[Ironpython-users] numpy implementation [was Re: Community Meeting]

Wed Jul 13 12:12:05 EDT 2016

The scipy/numpy to .Net was funded by microsoft.  They got reasonably close, but ran out of time, funding, etc., the etc. being some of the main people went to continuum.io.

From: Ironpython-users [mailto:ironpython-users-bounces+smortaz=microsoft.com at python.org] On Behalf Of Slide
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2016 9:08 AM
To: Uncle Meat <3000.sjg at gmail.com>; Markus Schaber <m.schaber at codesys.com>
Cc: ironpython-users at python.org
Subject: [Ironpython-users] numpy implementation [was Re: Community Meeting]

Moving this discussion on numpy into its own thread so searching for it will be easier for folks in the future.
On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:59 AM Uncle Meat <3000.sjg at gmail.com<mailto:3000.sjg at gmail.com>> wrote:
OK, I was able to track down some source code for the NumpyDotNet project. It looks like some people did a lot of work on this: https://github.com/numpy/numpy-refactor
I'm not sure what state it's in or even if it builds. I'm not sure who did the .NET portion (I think it was Enthought) but it looks like the "refactor" branch includes/inherits the numpy license.

Steve

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Uncle Meat <3000.sjg at gmail.com<mailto:3000.sjg at gmail.com>> wrote:
You can still get the install binaries and Python code here: https://store.enthought.com/repo/.iron/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fstore.enthought.com%2frepo%2f.iron%2f&data=01%7c01%7csmortaz%40exchange.microsoft.com%7cad9a0312b40b45216b3c08d3ab37f608%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=mSEeUs%2fNX9D%2fobqgGpBT0Rou3bL8K6OM4RfDVVBGy1c%3d> but you have to create a login at the Enthought site. Looks like the key to this is the NumpyDotNet dlls that I cant locate. Maybe we can ask Enthought if they'd like to open source it (or maybe this is just a dead end)?

Steve

On Wed, Jul 13, 2016 at 1:59 AM, Markus Schaber <m.schaber at codesys.com<mailto:m.schaber at codesys.com>> wrote:
Hi,

At a first glance, IronLab looks nice.

The License is LGPL, so I think it cannot be part of the main IronPython distribution.

OTOH, they’re using “NumPy and SciPY for IronPython / .NET” which seems abandoned, but used to be maintained by the PTVS people:
http://pytools.codeplex.com/wikipage?title=NumPy%20and%20SciPy%20for%20.Net<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3a%2f%2fpytools.codeplex.com%2fwikipage%3ftitle%3dNumPy%2520and%2520SciPy%2520for%2520.Net&data=01%7c01%7csmortaz%40exchange.microsoft.com%7cad9a0312b40b45216b3c08d3ab37f608%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=%2ffernr6vyabN1xDUZoq4oGzs9h%2bOnSuxLN5%2f0s4%2bKxs%3d>
However, I could not locate the source repository of those libraries…

Btw, I found a serious drawback on my previous suggestion to use C++/CLI: It’s hardly platform independent that way, as there’s no C++/CLI Compiler (yet) which works on non-windows platforms.

Best regards

Markus Schaber

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From: Uncle Meat [mailto:3000.sjg at gmail.com<mailto:3000.sjg at gmail.com>]
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 6:32 PM
To: Markus Schaber
Cc: Haymo Kutschbach; Tim Orling; ironpython-users at python.org<mailto:ironpython-users at python.org>

Subject: Re: [Ironpython-users] Community Meeting

A project exists called IronLab (https://github.com/rwg0/ironlab) that works with both numpy and scipy. Maybe we can leverage what was done in IronLab to support numpy? I think it uses the code developed by Enthought, not sure if it's OSS.

Thanks,
Steve

On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 11:56 AM, Markus Schaber <m.schaber at codesys.com<mailto:m.schaber at codesys.com>> wrote:
Hi,

Another way might be to use C++/CLI and the NumPy sources to directly write a .NET wrapper for NumPy, with the API optimized for the IronPython use case.

Might be more work, but AFAICS, should give the best results (performance-wise).

Best regards

Markus Schaber

CODESYS® a trademark of 3S-Smart Software Solutions GmbH

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From: Ironpython-users [mailto:ironpython-users-bounces+m.schaber<mailto:ironpython-users-bounces%2Bm.schaber>=codesys.com at python.org<mailto:codesys.com at python.org>] On Behalf Of Haymo Kutschbach
Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 5:39 PM
To: Tim Orling; Uncle Meat
Cc: ironpython-users at python.org<mailto:ironpython-users at python.org>
Subject: Re: [Ironpython-users] Community Meeting

Thanks Tim,

Ironclad looks interesting. Will investigate it. Thanks for the reference!

The promising thing regarding efforts: most, if not all of it has been done already in our Computing Engine. In fact people maintain wrappers around the (Matlab'isch) ILNumerics which mimic the numpy API and tend to be rather thin. The effort therefore would establish in getting rid of such wrappers and to handle the internal storage differences directly in ILNumerics. But of course, this needs to be done also...

Best
Haymo

On July 11, 2016 10:23:28 PM Tim Orling <ticotimo at gmail.com<mailto:ticotimo at gmail.com>> wrote:

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Uncle Meat <3000.sjg at gmail.com<mailto:3000.sjg at gmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Haymo,

I am very interested in having IPy support Numpy. I would be willing to support the effort if you need some help.

Numpy is a problem because of the amount of C extensions. The best hope, IMHO, is ironclad which marshalls objects around. Pawel and I spent a bit of time getting a clean build of ironclad, but whether it was actually functional or not remains to be seen. We were going for clean builds as a first step. Actually getting Numpy to be .NET native is going to be a LOT of work.

https://github.com/IronLanguages/ironclad
Unfortunately, I have changed employers and am not that focused on .NET any more. My main interest these days would be to see IronPython3 moving forward (out of fondness for the platform).
Cheers,
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center)

Thanks,
Steve

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Haymo Kutschbach <h.kutschbach at ilnumerics.net<mailto:h.kutschbach at ilnumerics.net>> wrote:
Hi Alex and all!

Thanks for the interesting news and for all the work done so far! There are considerations at ILNumerics to add numpy support to IronPython. So I would like to closely follow plans and progress of the main project. If there is a chance to attend the upcoming meeting I would like to participate as well.

My timezone is CEST / Berlin.

Best regards
Haymo

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From: Ironpython-users [mailto:ironpython-users-bounces+h.kutschbach<mailto:ironpython-users-bounces%2Bh.kutschbach>=ilnumerics.net at python.org<mailto:ilnumerics.net at python.org>] On Behalf Of Slide
Sent: Montag, 11. Juli 2016 07:02
To: ironpython-users at python.org<mailto:ironpython-users at python.org>
Subject: [Ironpython-users] Community Meeting

Hello IronPythonistas!

Jeff Hardy has handed over the mangement of IronPython to myself and Benedikt Eggers. We are hoping to recruit some new people to contribute to IronPython and get some releases out. We would like to have a community meeting to discuss future direction for IronPython. We're planning on holding the meeting on Gitter, you can find the room here: https://gitter.im/IronLanguages/main<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3a%2f%2fgitter.im%2fIronLanguages%2fmain&data=01%7c01%7csmortaz%40exchange.microsoft.com%7cad9a0312b40b45216b3c08d3ab37f608%7c72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7c1&sdata=yM5YsQz95pKA6qvNOLyoz92YA7Q9zH8oCuGw40ulmsQ%3d>.

I would like to cover the following agenda topics, but would definitely like to hear from community members what they would like to discuss as well.

- IronRuby - What do we want to do here?
- Issue disposition - there are currently about 961 issues, with most having been ported from CodePlex.
- Release schedule - I would like to do more rolling releases, getting features and fixes out faster, but still maintaining stability
- Continuous Integration - I was, for some time a contributor on the Jenkins project, I am approaching CloudBees to see what might be available for open source projects
- IronPython 3 - Roadmap to IronPython 3, which would be Python 3 compatible.

Please reply back if you are interested in attending the meeting and specify your timezone. I'd like to make the meeting as easy to attend as possible for the most amount of people. We won't be able to get everyone, but I would like to get as many as possible. I would like to hold the meeting this Thursday.

Thanks!

Alex Earl
(slide)

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