[ mailman-Bugs-1866486 ] validate HTML and email produced

Thu Jan 24 03:31:15 CET 2008

Bugs item #1866486, was opened at 2008-01-08 10:40
Message generated for change (Comment added) made by jidanni
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Category: Web/CGI
Group: None
Status: Open
Resolution: None
Priority: 5
Private: No
Submitted By: jidanni (jidanni)
Assigned to: Nobody/Anonymous (nobody)
Summary: validate HTML and email produced

Initial Comment:
In your test suite add
for all languages
   for all HTML pages
       run them thru a HTML validator
   for all administrative email sent
       run them thru e.g., SpamAssassin, to detect
       SUBJECT_NEEDS_ENCODING etc. embarrassment.

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>Comment By: jidanni (jidanni)
Date: 2008-01-24 10:31

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=1971011
Originator: YES

Can't find the button to merge this with 1861600. Perhaps I don't have
javascript turned on.

Anyway: I did see http://wiki.list.org/display/DEV/Summer+of+Code but
he's got it all wrong. Instead of going the javascript direction, he
should just go to the strict.dtd direction. Using not even one TABLE,
only H1 H2, etc. Indeed just like the HTML in my http://jidanni.org/ .

I mean if anything, the number of buttons and choices on the Mailman
web interface should shrink, not grow. Therefore the slightly looser H1
H2 etc. instead of TABLEs will not be too big anyway. I don't even see
the need for any CSS. Just H2 or <DL><DT><DD><P> lists of questions
and answers (item names and their choices.)

Mailman is not some multimedia application. You should go the
Strict.dtd route. No color too: then you will be forced to make your
H2's titles meaningful ones, improving accessibility for everybody.

(P.S., the Chinese sample I gave also has its language selector ripped
out, else I would have to also maintain an English page, as that is
Dreamhost's site language, and cannot be
turned off (bug 1875187))

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Comment By: jidanni (jidanni)
Date: 2008-01-23 03:55

Message:
Logged In: YES 
user_id=1971011
Originator: YES

And as you will find your HTML is jam packed with _very hard to
maintain presentational blibber_, causing a billion validator errors,
meaning it is just by shear luck that people hopefully see what your
thought maybe they might see in their browsers at all, therefore I
recommend you forget your FrontPage Express style tag soup mess, and
try HTML Strict (http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd).

Never mind all those colors and tables. Get in the habit of thinking
from the point of all users: _accessibility_.

Here's an example of how I repaired your disastrous listinfo.html.

I couldn't use strict.dtd as the stuff I include of yours isn't
strict.

Also you insist on sticking a TABLE inside an ADDRESS, in
mm-mailman-footer, so short of just hardcoding the whole thing, it
will never be valid HTML.

Anyway I'm just telling you, not volunteering to help, but just
telling you, that aren't  these <H1> and <H2>'s easier to maintain
than that TABLE tag barf that you contracted Plotzworth Whoopie Pages
Web Designers for?

P.S., Before making one more release, make sure what you release is
valid HTML. Does Wikipedia pass the validator? Yes. It is quite
bananas to just emit TAG JUMBLE GAMBLE HTML with FINGER CROSSED to
people's browsers.

Anyway, just some <h2>'s and <p>'s:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
<html lang="zh-tw">
<head>
 <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content=
 "text/html; charset=utf-8">
 <meta http-equiv="Content-Language" content="zh-tw">
 <title><mm-list-name> 相關資訊</title>
</head>
<body>
<h1><mm-list-name> -- <mm-list-description></h1>
<P>關於<mm-list-name>論壇</P>
<mm-subscribe-form-start><mm-form-end>
<p><mm-list-info></p>
<p>欲查本論壇舊信，請逕洽
<mm-archive><mm-list-name>檔案保管處</MM-Archive>。
 <mm-restricted-list-message></p>
<h2>使用<mm-list-name></h2>
 <P>欲在論壇發言，請寄到 <a
href="mailto:<MM-Posting-Addr>"><mm-posting-addr></a>。
<h2>加入<mm-list-name>論壇</h2>
 <P>請於聚會現場報名。 <!--ripped out this section, must
subscribe in person-->
<h2><mm-list-name>訂閱者</h2>
 <P><mm-options-form-start><mm-editing-options><mm-form-end>
<mm-mailman-footer>
</body>
</html>

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