[Mailman-Developers] Re: Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 175, Issue 14

Pat patudelan at goalsnet.com.pe
Fri Nov 14 13:20:16 EST 2003


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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Uncaught bounce notification ..  (Martin Maechler)
>    2. Re: Uncaught bounce notification ..  (J C Lawrence)
>    3. Re: Uncaught bounce notification .. (Nigel Metheringham)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100
>From: Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification ..
>To: J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu>
>Cc: mailman-developers <mailman-developers at python.org>, Martin
>         Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>Message-ID: <16308.36060.659955.861772 at gargle.gargle.HOWL>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> >>>>> "J" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu>
> >>>>>     on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:45 -0500 writes:
>
>     J> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100
>     J> Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
>
>     >> My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s per
>     >> day, only few of which are spam/virus related.
>
>     J> Turn on VERP for a few days.
>
>     J> --
>     J> J C Lawrence
>     J> ---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
>     J> claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
>     J> http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
>
>Thank you, "J", for the suggestion,
>but that seems not an option for two reasons
>
>1) we (currenly must) use sendmail and that doesn't seem to
>    support VERPing -- or at least we haven't found docu on that
>
>2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO
>    resources on the mail servert.  Currently that server almost
>    constantly runs on load 2.5 -- 3
>     (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..)
>
>------
>
>OTOH, most of these "uncaught bounce notification" can quite
>easily resolved by a human, i.e., the subscriber's e-mail can
>very often be found in the bounce.
>E.g., if they resend the full headers, I can find the proper
>subscriber's address in a "Received:" header such as
>
>Received: from hypatia.math.ethz.ch (root at hypatia.ethz.ch [129.132.58.23])
>         by cryforhelp.mr.itd.umich.edu (umich) with ESMTP id hAB7NrHc014893
>         for <pgreen at umich.edu>; Tue, 11 Nov 2003 02:23:53 -0500
>
>(hypatia is our own mail server)
>
>I.e., I think mailman's analysis of the bounce message leaves
>room for improvement. Can you tell me where in the python code
>this happens (so we might consider improving it here)?
>
>Best regards,
>and thank you all for mailman!
>
>Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch>    http://stat.ethz.ch/~maechler/
>Seminar fuer Statistik, ETH-Zentrum  LEO C16    Leonhardstr. 27
>ETH (Federal Inst. Technology)  8092 Zurich     SWITZERLAND
>phone: x-41-1-632-3408          fax: ...-1228                   <><
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 08:40:02 -0500
>From: J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification ..
>To: Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch>
>Cc: mailman-developers <mailman-developers at python.org>
>Message-ID: <10436.1068817202 at kanga.nu>
>
>On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100
>Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
> > "J" == J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> on Tue, 11 Nov 2003 09:05:45
> > -0500 writes:
> >> On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 10:52:07 +0100 Martin Maechler
> >> <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
>
> >>> My problem is that I get about 50 "Uncaught bounce notification"s
> >>> per day, only few of which are spam/virus related.
>
> >> Turn on VERP for a few days.
>
> > 1) we (currenly must) use sendmail and that doesn't seem to support
> > VERPing -- or at least we haven't found docu on that
>
>Mailman's VERP supports don't require VERP support in the MTA, merely
>support for plus addressing.
>
> > 2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO resources
> > on the mail servert.  Currently that server almost constantly runs on
> > load 2.5 -- 3 (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..)
>
>The added overhead is increased delivery expense in the form of more
>disk IO, both for the initial delivery from Mailman, and the final
>delivery to the target MX.  The other overheads are fairly minimal given
>minor MTA tuning.
>
>--
>J C Lawrence
>---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
>claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?
>http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 13:48:05 +0000
>From: Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk>
>Subject: Re: [Mailman-Developers] Uncaught bounce notification ..
>To: mailman-developers <mailman-developers at python.org>
>Message-ID: <1068817685.18487.17.camel at angua.localnet>
>Content-Type: text/plain
>
>On Fri, 2003-11-14 at 13:40, J C Lawrence wrote:
> > On Fri, 14 Nov 2003 09:05:48 +0100
> > Martin Maechler <maechler at stat.math.ethz.ch> wrote:
> > > 2) VERP will probably cost quite a bit of CPU/memory/disk-IO resources
> > > on the mail servert.  Currently that server almost constantly runs on
> > > load 2.5 -- 3 (because of anti-virus / anti-spam / mailman ..)
> >
> > The added overhead is increased delivery expense in the form of more
> > disk IO, both for the initial delivery from Mailman, and the final
> > delivery to the target MX.  The other overheads are fairly minimal given
> > minor MTA tuning.
>
>Virus/Spam scanning should not be done for mail injection from mailman -
>its already been scanned when it came through the MTA on the way into
>mailman, so a second scan is completely superfluous and downright silly
>when you have expanded the original incoming message into a number of
>outgoing ones (even without VERP).
>
>         Nigel.
>--
>[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
>[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
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>End of Mailman-Developers Digest, Vol 175, Issue 14
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