making Mailman CAN-SPAM compliant (was Re:[Mailman-Developers] Hashing member passwords in config.pck)

[Brad Knowles]

At 11:28 AM -0400 2005-02-16, Adrian Bye wrote:

>  We've previously had conversations about some Yahoo groups 
>functionality which
>  you said wasn't possible:
>
>  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp

	Indeed, we have.

>  Yesterday I contributed patches which enables Mailman to have this exact
>  functionality which we borrowed from Yahoo Groups.  Yet I've seen no response
>  from you yet, and only one half dismissive response from another mailman
>  developer.

	I've been waiting to see what Barry, Tokio, or one of the other 
core developers think of these patches.  Keep in mind that they are 
exceptionally busy people, and it may take a long time for them to be 
able to take a look at them.

	I have not yet had a chance to look at them myself.  I've been 
focused on putting together my own little script to assist in the 
day-to-day site administration tasks for running a Mailman mailing 
list server, one of the few areas where I can see that Mailman can 
use improvement, and where my previous experience and limited 
scripting skills can be put to good use in helping to make this 
situation better.  Well, at least better for me, and then contribute 
the patch to SourceForge so that others can take a look at it and see 
if it's useful for them.  My hope is that this might be able to be 
incorporated into future versions of Mailman as well.


	So, you take me to task for not having yet posted an exhaustive 
analysis of your patch, but I don't see a comment from you on my 
script.  Can we call it even?

>  Mailman CAN be as good - and better - than Yahoo Groups.  It doesn't
>  have to take lots of money and resources.  Just being willing to accept
>  our code a piece at a time, and encouraging those who contribute will
>  go a long way towards getting there.

	You are right that Mailman can be better than Yahoo!Groups.  I 
don't think you're going to make Mailman better than Yahoo!Groups in 
every respect, at least not without spending a lot of money.  But we 
can continue to take steps towards that goal.

	That said, we do gladly accept contributions, but since this is a 
non-profit open source project which is maintained in what little 
spare time that people have, you have to accept that it may take a 
while for the contributions to be reviewed and analyzed by the 
appropriate people.


	As for Tobias' contributions to Mailman, he has already given us 
quite a lot, and has a great deal more that has been done for his own 
site and which I believe he is happy to contribute to the project.  I 
look forward to continuing to work with him in the future.

	However, just because I've agreed to work with him in doing 
Mailman administration for his site and I will try to do what I can 
to help him get better integration between Mailman and an amazingly 
wide variety of other projects, and hopefully be able to bring this 
experience back to the Mailman project, that doesn't necessarily mean 
that I will always agree with him 100% -- either in private or public.

	You should not make any assumptions about general attitudes 
towards all possible future contributions from the community or third 
parties, based on a single response.


	In this particular matter, I was talking about the current 
capabilities of Mailman, not where we hope to ultimately be able to 
take it.

>  There may be some disagreement on the unsubscribe styff, but the
>  header/footer handling only benefits everyone.  I certainly hope that
>  the mailman team will be responsive, and accept these patches and
>  integrate them into the codebase.  From my side we'll do whatever it
>  takes to make that happen.  Just tell us what we have to do.

	That's great news!  However, we do ask that you give the core 
developers a little time to look over your contribution and make 
their analysis.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.