[Mailman-Developers] PHP Wrappers?

Brad Knowles brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Fri Nov 18 00:41:48 CET 2005

At 2:49 PM -0500 2005-11-17, Kevin McCann wrote:

>  For me, the most frustrating part is knowing that the time is not right
>  for technical reasons but having to do it anyway because of political
>  reasons (and, of course, the political reasons are borne from good
>  intentions: helping the needy).

	Indeed, that is extremely frustrating.  One thing I've always 
really hated is when bad technical decisions get made because of bad 
political decisions.  Long-term, that's been one of my biggest hot 

>  I think we can get past this, too. In the end we're on the same team,
>  even if our goals are a bit different.
>  Admittedly, I responded as a frustrated person. See, I tried very hard
>  to get MM3 funding to happen behind the scenes.

	And I have to confess that I wasn't aware of the things you had 
tried to do behind the scenes -- From what I read, it seemed to me 
like you didn't know what was going on within the project and were 
making unreasonable complaints.

	With this irreconcilable difference between our starting 
positions, I think the outcome we arrived at was at least somewhat 

>                                And when I saw someone on the list suggest
>  that the quick solution is to wait for MM3,

	I'd have to go back and check the exact wording, but I don't know 
if it was intended as being the "quick solution".  I think it was 
intended to be taken as the "least slow" solution, in the overall 
scheme of open source alternatives.  But that's neither here nor 

>                                              well, I guess I let my
>  frustration show.  :-(    I do apologize for that.

	And I was too quick to lump your response in with others that I 
had seen in the past, and my response was harsher than it should have 
been.  I apologize for both of those mistakes.

>  Nevertheless, I still want to help. Eventhough I'm no longer with my
>  previous org. (or in international development at the moment), I still
>  want to see solutions for the Dgroups and the Kabissas of the world who
>  want to do good things for people who need a helping hand. So, when MM3
>  gets moving, I'll be sure to listen in, try to learn what I can from the
>  group, and offer anything that might be of value.

	I think that would be very welcome.  We each contribute in our 
own ways, and it sounds like you've got some ideas and methods that 
are relatively rare.  Ideas which might help open further doors for 
others, and allow them to be able contribute even more, better and 

	The frustrating part here will be waiting until we can make our 

>  Sound fair? Are we good?

	Yeah, I think we're good.

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.

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