[Mailman-Developers] PHP Wrappers?

Barry Warsaw barry at python.org
Fri Nov 18 02:01:47 CET 2005

On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 23:49 -0500, Kevin McCann wrote:

> This kind of response is precisely what makes me realize there is a huge 
> disconnect between people who run mailing lists and ONLY want to run 
> mailing lists and those who want to have a mailing list be a critical 
> component of something more useful in the way of comunication and 
> collaboration tools tha thelp build communities of practice. I'm not 
> going to try to make you "get it" but I will say that the right tool for 
> "the job" just doesn't exist yet. It would be nice if it did.

A quick bit of history might help explain why Mailman is the way it is.
John Viega wrote Mailman to support mailing lists for some of his
favorite bands.  We (Ken Manheimer first, then joined by me) resurrected
it because we were tired of using Majordomo to support the python.org
mailing lists.  So Mailman clearly comes out of the open discussion
technical and fanboy mailing list tradition.  I believe that's why it's
very easy for people who want wide-ranging open discussion lists to
adopt Mailman and just use it, and why it's more difficult for people to
make it do things it wasn't originally intended to do.  Not that I think
those things are impossible, but they're more painful than they need to

> I'm not throwing stones, Brad. I've tried to make that clear. And I know 
> precisely what Mailman is and isn't. When it comes to looking at what it 
> isn't, I'm hoping for solutions. It won't happen in MM2, I know that. 
> MM3? I've seen no developments on the MM3 list. I have heard Barry 
> mention he's too busy to really do anything (I think he's hoping for 
> spare time soon but "soon" is elusive for many). If there are 
> significant developments, why are they not mentioned on the MM3 list?

It's a valid point. I will make it a priority over the holidays to
discuss MM3 project management on the mailman3-dev list.

> I went to the MM3 sprint. I'm on the MM3 list. I tried to get tens of 
> thousands of dollars in funding for it, and came damn close, but things 
> fell through because there was no movement on the project and the 
> potential funders were nervous about it. Barry can confirm that I was 
> trying to get things to happen from my end. Unless there is some sort of 
> MM3 Secret Society that I was not invited to, I think I have followed 
> things as closely as possible.

There is no MSU @$(X...bEDF1abz... (carrier lost)


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