From mailman at tux.org  Tue Oct  1 00:05:22 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:05:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help for a new install on Linux
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLIDFMLAEJJBGMCKBAEGJCEAA.mark@tildens.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209301739010.629-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Mon, 30 Sep 2002, Mark Tilden wrote:

> 2. I created a second test list with no spaces in the name. It
> works better.  However, whenever I send mail to the list server, I
> get a "loop back" bounce message from sendmail. Here's the message:
>
> > This is the Postfix program at host gateway.tildens.org.
> >
> > <markstestlist at gateway.tildens.org>: mail for gateway.tildens.org
> > loops back to myself

That's a DNS issue.  Most often when the "loops back to myself" error
shows up, the MX host for the target domain resolves to 127.0.0.1
which clearly creates a loop.  Sometimes, a correctly configured MX
record will still create this problem if the MTA has not been configured
to recognize local mail as such and deliver it differently than other
mail it is relaying.  i.e., if a given MTA has been configured to relay
-everything- based solely on MX records and it discovers that the relay
for a given domain is -itself- (even if the MX record does not point to
"127.0.0.1") it might issue the "loops back to myself" NDR in that case,
too.  (Typically, an MTA for a given domain is configured to either
deliver mail for that domain locally (i.e., to a mailbox) or to use a
specific host as the next-hop relay for that domain (i.e., don't look it
up in DNS).)

While troubleshooting, remember that the view of DNS from the system
in question may be very different from the view of DNS from some other
system, even a "neighbor".

Take a careful look at things; you claim that bounce message comes
from sendmail, but the NDR you provided is from a Postfix MTA.  Did
you mean "the MTA" instead of "sendmail"?  If not, the environment in
which you are operating may be quite different from what you believe
it to be.

HTH
- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From sergeyli at pisem.net  Tue Oct  1 00:42:45 2002
From: sergeyli at pisem.net (Sergey A Lipnevich)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 18:42:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Operation not permitted" when updating aliases in Postfix.py
Message-ID: <3D98D365.8030104@pisem.net>

Hi,

My mailman installation is mostly doing fine, but every time I create a 
new list, I hit an error while performing os.system(update aliases db) 
in Postfix.py. I'm not running a secure kernel. I  fact, when I do:

su - mailman
python -c 'import os; print os.system("<skipped>/postalias 
<skipped>/mailman/data/aliases");'

I get "0" (zero character) in the output, which means it's OK (?). How 
come it can't run when a web interface is used? Naturally, my Apache is 
not running under mailman's uid.
Thank you!

Sergey,
Source Mage GNU/Linux,
http://www.sourcemage.org/.




From bronto at csd-bes.net  Tue Oct  1 01:48:54 2002
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (bronto)
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 16:48:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cron errors, no archiving, v2.1b3
Message-ID: <a05111b09b9be90cf686a@[10.1.19.62]>

I posted a question regarding error messages last week while I was 
still running 2.1b2.  I have just upgraded to v2.1b3 after being 
chastised for being tardy with updating. :')

Now back to the questions - I have more info.  Here's what I posted 
last week (the 23rd):

"I'm running Mailamn v2.1b2, and just got these errors sent to my email:

_________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Cron <mailman at g3> /usr/bin/python2 -S 
/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 44, in ?
     from Mailman import MailList
ValueError: bad marshal data

Subject: Cron <mailman at g3> /usr/bin/python2 -S 
/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 44, in ?
     from Mailman import MailList
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 65, in ?
     from Mailman.OldStyleMemberships import OldStyleMemberships
ValueError: bad marshal data

__________________________________________________________________________
They came five minutes apart.  The reference to "gate" suggests to me 
that it might have something to do with newsgroup syncing, but I'm 
not doing any of that."

Since posting that last week, I have discovered that one of my 
mailing lists has stopped functioning to some degree.  I had set up 
this particular list to be a simple personal archive of messages from 
another mailing list I subscribe to.  It doesn't send anything, so I 
hadn't noticed any problems.  While doing my mailman update, I 
discovered that no messages have been archived since the 23rd when I 
got the above errors.  Snooping around the mailman directories, I see 
a ton of files (several hundred) in the qfiles/shunt directory, dated 
since 9/23.  There are also a few dozen from 7/2, FWIW.  I'm betting 
this isn't a coincidence, but know nothing more than that.

What now?

TIA

Rob



From prins at eduvision.nl  Tue Oct  1 15:51:10 2002
From: prins at eduvision.nl (Peter Prins)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:51:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list right problem
Message-ID: <00a001c26951$99700cc0$7001a8c0@don>

Hello,

I have problem, which I am trying to solve for more then a week now :p
Mailman always worked good until something went wrong with, well whatever it
was, but I don't know.

So I reconfigured and recompiled it again, but then I got errors about wrong
userid's.
That problem is solved now, finally, but the old lists which I had work
great, but when I want to add a new list
they won't work. :(

This is the error message:

Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper
    post test". Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 41, GOT
gid
    12.  (Reconfigure to take 12?)

So I reconfigured it, with id 12, but then nothing works. recompile again
with id 41 and the old lists are working again, except the new
lists.

Somebody recognize this or could help me out.

Best regards,

Peter Prins





From wash at wananchi.com  Tue Oct  1 16:59:32 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:59:32 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ## Mailman Questions for "FAQ"
In-Reply-To: <p05100300b9b9e4999a25@[204.111.24.196]>
References: <p05100300b9b9e4999a25@[204.111.24.196]>
Message-ID: <20021001145932.GN69612@ns2.wananchi.com>

* Fred Showker <showker at graphic-design.com> [20020929 19:05]: wrote:
> Greetings
> 
> QUESTIONS FOR MAILMAN


Which version of Mailman???


> #1 Sudden deluge of SPAM hitting the list
> 
>    Under the "Security" section of the ADMIN it says:
> 
>    "... See "forbidden"
> 
>    However I cannot find "forbidden" anywhere on any of the
>    help pages or any of the other pages. Also searched the
>    documentation and the word doesn't occur there either.


I can't see "Security" section myself ;-)


>    Will those 'frequent' spammers be blocked if I add their
>    domains to the block screen?


Mailman 2.0.x has some patch to intergrate SpamAssassin - it's
at sourceforge.


>    How do I block them without getting a notice?
> 
>         Hold posts with header value matching a specified regexp.
>             Allows you to filter out known addresses or domains that function
>             primarily as spam providers.
> 
>    I do not want to "HOLD" those posts, I want them blocked and
>    deleted without being notified.



Search the list archives for "clear request" script.


> #2 Sudden deluge of "bounces" or "undeliverables"
> 
>    The list has been operating fine for months using this set
>    of subscribers. Suddenly, yesterday, I get 160 "undeliverables"
>    from known good addresses. Some of them also actually got
>    posted. Today I get 7 more pages of bounces.


You have to sort that out with your MTA.



> #3 Bouncing Non-Subscribers
> 
>    I would rather "DISCARD" and delete all posts from non-subscribers
>    and NOT get any notice of any kind.
>    The option doesn't seem to be available. How do I do that?


clear requests script will do, I believe.


> #4 When are duplicates deleted?
> 
>    If I get duplicate addresses, are they deleted immediately?


Never seen it myself.




> #5 Remote "Unsubscribe"
> 
>    Is there a better way to "UNSUBSCRIBE" people using an email?


They can do it themselves, no?


>    It is rediculously tedious to remove people (who post a "Remove Me"
>    to the list) by going to the member management page. 
>    If you've got a list of 50,000 subscribers, you have to first
>    load all the initial page, then try to find the page where the
>    address is located, then find that person to UNSUBSCRIBE them.



That's all I have for now.



        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post



From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Tue Oct  1 17:23:47 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:23:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What does this REALLY mean??
Message-ID: <006801c2695e$8a77bb20$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>

member_posting_only (privacy): Restrict posting privilege to list members?
(member_posting_only)

Use this option if you want to restrict posting to list members. If you want
list members to be able to post, plus a handful of other posters, see the
posters setting below

I took this from the help in the admin section of my mailman web interface?
Please, someone help me out, does this mean that only posts from certain
addresses will go straight out onto the list?? Or does this mean that only
certain specified addresses will have thier messages forwarded for approval,
and all others rejected. Because I would really like to have the latter!



***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......
and those that are, never forget the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club nights.....
http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/listinfo/clubnights
and enter your email address
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ?
Do you have talent?
Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***




From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Tue Oct  1 17:27:21 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:27:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I force password reminders?
Message-ID: <006a01c2695f$09d77540$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>

I'm guessing that this must be possible, because to the best of my knowledge
password reminders must be sent using a cron job. The problem is which one!!


***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......
and those that are, never forget the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club nights.....
http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/listinfo/clubnights
and enter your email address
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ?
Do you have talent?
Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***




From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Tue Oct  1 17:34:16 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 16:34:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I force password reminders?
In-Reply-To: <006a01c2695f$09d77540$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>
References: <006a01c2695f$09d77540$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>
Message-ID: <200210011634.16755.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

Have a look at

http://www.list.org/admins.html

The cron jobs section has what you are looking for

John

On Tuesday 01 Oct 2002 4:27 pm, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> I'm guessing that this must be possible, because to the best of my
> knowledge password reminders must be sent using a cron job. The problem is
> which one!!
>
>
> ***
> Not everyone is touched by an Angel......
> and those that are, never forget the experience.
> ***
> If you want guest list for bare club nights.....
> http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/listinfo/clubnights
> and enter your email address
> ***
> Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ?
> Do you have talent?
> Send an email to
> sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
> ***
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Tue Oct  1 18:10:04 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:10:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML welcome messages
Message-ID: <007901c26965$01584290$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>

Is it possible to have a HTML welcome message sent out to my subscribers,
instead of text based ones? I mean in get mails from Tech Republic, and they
are CRISP! It's just a thought!


***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......
and those that are, never forget the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club nights.....
http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/listinfo/clubnights
and enter your email address
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ?
Do you have talent?
Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***




From justin at jalcorn.net  Tue Oct  1 18:51:50 2002
From: justin at jalcorn.net (Justin Alcorn)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:51:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large Attachments
Message-ID: <2719.209.176.71.196.1033491110.squirrel@jalcorn.net>

I am trying to set up a list whose reason for being is to allow the
emailing of attachments to a large number of (self-selected) people.

I've set the max message size to Zero, and small attachments work fine
when subscribers are set up as not 'Plain'.   but larger attachments are
missing, with no indication of what is happening to them.  Is there
another setting I need to use for large attachments?


-- 
Justin Alcorn
http://jalcorn.net
Contact me http://www.keen.com/UnixHelp





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  1 20:27:29 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 01 Oct 2002 14:27:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list right problem
In-Reply-To: <00a001c26951$99700cc0$7001a8c0@don>
References: <00a001c26951$99700cc0$7001a8c0@don>
Message-ID: <1033496850.1638.152.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You might want to run ~mailman/bin/check_perms  (and reset your mail-gid
to use 12)

On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 09:51, Peter Prins wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have problem, which I am trying to solve for more then a week now :p
> Mailman always worked good until something went wrong with, well whatever it
> was, but I don't know.
> 
> So I reconfigured and recompiled it again, but then I got errors about wrong
> userid's.
> That problem is solved now, finally, but the old lists which I had work
> great, but when I want to add a new list
> they won't work. :(
> 
> This is the error message:
> 
> Command died with status 2: "/var/mailman/mail/wrapper
>     post test". Command output: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 41, GOT
> gid
>     12.  (Reconfigure to take 12?)
> 
> So I reconfigured it, with id 12, but then nothing works. recompile again
> with id 41 and the old lists are working again, except the new
> lists.
> 
> Somebody recognize this or could help me out.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Peter Prins
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jchum at aismedia.com  Tue Oct  1 21:08:45 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:08:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format
Message-ID: <001301c2697d$f75cfc90$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Hi,

I'm pretty new to Mailman, but I was wondering how would I send a newsletter
in HTML format. Other email blast applications usually have an option
whether to send as HTML or as TXT format. Any ideas how'd I do this?


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Tue Oct  1 21:24:55 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:24:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format
References: <001301c2697d$f75cfc90$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <OE559J1Mm3xFKGqvX7v000038cb@hotmail.com>

send it to the list as an html email
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Chum" <jchum at aismedia.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format


> Hi,
>
> I'm pretty new to Mailman, but I was wondering how would I send a
newsletter
> in HTML format. Other email blast applications usually have an option
> whether to send as HTML or as TXT format. Any ideas how'd I do this?
>
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Chum
> Systems Developer
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
> "We Build eBusinesses"
> 115 Perimeter Center Terrace
> Suite 540
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
> http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From mir at soartech.com  Tue Oct  1 21:23:13 2002
From: mir at soartech.com (David Mir)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:23:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiving I'm dying over here.....
Message-ID: <200210011523.13552.mir@soartech.com>

Please HELP I am running Mailman (mailman-2.0.11-1) installed via RPM on RH7.3 
system.  Archiving never has worked.  If just left to pipermail all I get is 
the "raw" dump screen no matter what the settings on the mailing list (have 
set it to daily and still not archives. This mailing list has been runnning 
for over a month, so I tried using Mhonarc I can't get that to work (though 
that one AT LEAST gives me an error message).  Can anyone please, please, 
please (w/sugar on top) tell me how I can either get pipermail mail to work 
(ie. what to look for and what settings to check) or tell me how they got 
Mhonarc to (exactly what changes to what files) work as their archiver.  Let 
me say I have already followed several unoffical How-tos none of them worked, 
if I just tell mhonarc to take my mbox and convert it it works fine (I get a 
web page etc.) if I try to get mailman to send mhonarc the message I get "sh: 
-c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file" error message at least this 
is farthest I have gotten .(this archinvg thing is killing me! :)

Here is my mm_cfg.py file:
(including various commented out command lines for Mhonarc)
====================================================================================
# -*- python -*-

# Copyright (C) 1998 by the Free Software Foundation, Inc.
#
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
#
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
#
# You should have received a copy of the GNU General Public License
# along with this program; if not, write to the Free Software
# Foundation, Inc., 59 Temple Place - Suite 330, Boston, MA 02111-1307, USA.


"""This is the module which takes your site-specific settings.

From a raw distribution it should be copied to mm_cfg.py.  If you
already have an mm_cfg.py, be careful to add in only the new settings
you want.  The complete set of distributed defaults, with annotation,
are in ./Defaults.  In mm_cfg, override only those you want to
change, after the

  from Defaults import *

line (see below).

Note that these are just default settings - many can be overridden via the
admin and user interfaces on a per-list or per-user basis.

Note also that some of the settings are resolved against the active list
setting by using the value as a format string against the
list-instance-object's dictionary - see the distributed value of
DEFAULT_MSG_FOOTER for an example."""


#######################################################
#    Here's where we get the distributed defaults.    #

from Defaults import *
import pwd, grp

##############################################################
#    Here's where we override shipped defaults with settings #
#    suitable for the RPM package.                           #
#MAILMAN_UID = pwd.getpwnam('mailman')[2]
#MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam('mailman')[2]
LOG_DIR     = '/var/log/mailman'
QUEUE_DIR   = '/var/spool/mailman/qfiles'

##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.            #

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'soartech.com'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://www.%s/mailman/' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
MAILMAN_OWNER     = 'mailman-owner@%s' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = 0

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL='/archives'

#PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/bin/mhonarc -add -outdir 
/var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s >> /tmp/out_external_archiver'
#PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/bin/mhonarc -add -outdir 
/var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s >> /tmp/out_external_archiver'



#PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p 
/var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s ; /usr/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add 
-umask 022 -outdir /var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s -multipg  
-expireage 2592000 -idxsize 1
5 -noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile 
/var/mailman/frames.mrc'
#PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(mkdir -p 
/var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s ; /usr/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add 
-umask 022 -outdir /var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s -multipg  
-expireage 2592000 -idxsize
15 -noauthsort -reverse -nothread -nosubsort -idxfname index.html -rcfile 
/var/mailman/frames.mrc'

PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '(/usr/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 
-outdir /var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s -multipg -reverse 
-idxfname index.html -rcfile /var/mailman/frames.mrc'

PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = '/usr/bin/mhonarc -nomodtime -add -umask 022 
-outdir /var/mailman/archives/mhonarc/%(listname)s -multipg -reverse 
-idxfname index.html -rcfile /var/mailman/frames.mrc'

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py.
============================================================================

also I have changed in default.py:
# Are archives on or off by default?
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE = 1                               # 0=Off, 1=On

# Are archives public or private by default?
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_PRIVATE    = 0                    # 0=public, 1=private

# ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX
#-1 - do not do any archiving
# 0 - do not archive to mbox, use builtin mailman html archiving only
# 1 - archive to mbox to use an external archiving mechanism only
# 2 - archive to both mbox and builtin mailman html archiving -
#     use this to make both external archiving mechanism work and
#     mailman's builtin html archiving.  the flat mail file can be
#     useful for searching, external archivers, etc.
#
ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 2

# 0 - yearly
# 1 - monthly
# 2 - quarterly
# 3 - weekly
# 4 - daily
#
DEFAULT_ARCHIVE_VOLUME_FREQUENCY = 1

# These variables control the use of an external archiver.  Normally if
# archiving is turned on (see ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX above and the list's archive*
# attributes) the internal Pipermail archiver is used.  This is the default if
# both of these variables are set to false.  When either is set, the value
# should be a shell command string which will get passed to os.popen().  This
# string can contain %(listname)s for dictionary interpolation.  The name of
# the list being archived will be substituted for this.
#
# Note that if you set one of these variables, you should set both of them
# (they can be the same string).  This will mean your external archiver will
# be used regardless of whether public or private archives are selected.
PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 1
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER = 1

==================================

Yes before trying mhonarc I had both PUBLIC_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER and 
PRIVATE_EXTERNAL_ARCHIVER set to 0.


Thanks!


-- 
David Mir
System Administrator
Soar Technology, Inc.
mir at soartech.com





From jchum at aismedia.com  Tue Oct  1 21:59:20 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:59:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format
In-Reply-To: <OE559J1Mm3xFKGqvX7v000038cb@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001701c26985$08b0b340$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Hmm,

Why is there an option in the web interface that allows to get MIME or Plain
Text Digests:

Get MIME or Plain Text Digests?
If you have any problems with MIME digests, select plain text.
x MIME x Plain Text

What kind of effect does that have on the newsletter?

Does Mailman automatically check the content of the email to see whether it
needs to send as HTML or TEXT format?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of John Wards
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 3:25 PM
To: jchum at aismedia.com
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format


send it to the list as an html email
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Chum" <jchum at aismedia.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 8:08 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format


> Hi,
>
> I'm pretty new to Mailman, but I was wondering how would I send a
newsletter
> in HTML format. Other email blast applications usually have an option
> whether to send as HTML or as TXT format. Any ideas how'd I do this?
>
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Chum
> Systems Developer
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
> "We Build eBusinesses"
> 115 Perimeter Center Terrace
> Suite 540
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
> http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From dan at ssc.com  Tue Oct  1 22:58:41 2002
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 13:58:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format
In-Reply-To: <001301c2697d$f75cfc90$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
References: <001301c2697d$f75cfc90$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <20021001135841.E30396@ssc.com>

On Tue, Oct 01, 2002 at 03:08:45PM -0400, Jonathan Chum wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm pretty new to Mailman, but I was wondering how would I send a newsletter
> in HTML format. Other email blast applications usually have an option
> whether to send as HTML or as TXT format. Any ideas how'd I do this?

Submit the email as html?

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>   Technical Manager
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://www.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From danny at terweij.nl  Tue Oct  1 23:00:02 2002
From: danny at terweij.nl (Danny Terweij)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 23:00:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format
References: <001701c26985$08b0b340$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <003201c2698d$82fc6740$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>

Hmm is he using the digest mode on his list? I do not think so.. Read his
message.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Chum" <jchum at aismedia.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 9:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Sending out email blast in HTML format


> Hmm,
>
> Why is there an option in the web interface that allows to get MIME or
Plain
> Text Digests:





From kremels at kreme.com  Tue Oct  1 23:20:04 2002
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:20:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: MM & Mac OS X ?
In-Reply-To: <B9BD03CF.5C48%brossow@mac.com>
Message-ID: <8D3E7E66-D583-11D6-800C-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com>

On Sunday, Sep 29, 2002, at 18:23 Canada/Mountain, Brent Rossow wrote:
> If anyone has successfully installed MM on Mac OS X, I'd love to get 
> some
> pointers.  Majordomo is working adequately, but I'd like my listserv 
> package
> to be more than just "adequate."  Any help is greatly appreciated!

I built and installed mailman as root, then chmodded the install to 
mailman.

If you get errors during the make then you need to let us know what 
THOSE errors are.

--
Adopted kids are such a pain -- you have to teach them how to look like 
you ...
    -- Gilda Radner




From justin at jalcorn.net  Wed Oct  2 00:35:40 2002
From: justin at jalcorn.net (Justin Alcorn)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 18:35:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Private Lists and mailpasswds
Message-ID: <3D9A233C.3060204@jalcorn.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Private lists on my server didn't get the monthly password mailing, even though
I set them to do so.  I'm not a member of any private lists on any other server,
so I wasn't sure if this was expected behavior.

Looking through cron/mailpasswds I found:

~    a_public_list = None

~    (for all lists....)

~        if not a_public_list and mlist.advertised:
~            a_public_list = mlist


~    if a_public_list:
~        a_public_list.Lock()
~        try:
~            mail_passwords(a_public_list, hosts)
~        finally:
~            a_public_list.Save()
~            a_public_list.Unlock()


OK, I'm a perl, C and php coder, not python, but it appears to me that we aren't
going to process any lists unless at least one is advertised.  Why?  There's no
indication of that in any documentation.  I have no public lists on my server,
so I go through all the processing and end up with a_public_list being false,
and I simply fall through to the bottom.  I can't see any security risk
associated with sending out the passwords.  Is this a bug?

if I take off the 'and mlist.advertised' it seems to me that I'd send out
passwords.  But I still don't quite understand the logic, it seems that the
first public list found will be Lock()ed, Save()ed and Unlock()ed.  HUH?
someone please explain.
- --
Justin Alcorn
http://jalcorn.net
PGP Sig: A36D D691 C5B0 BE15  5A2A AF49 AA1C 372C
http://www.keen.com/UnixHelp

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: PGP 6.5.8
Comment: Using PGP with Netscape - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iQEVAwUBPZojO3YdKc0RR4enAQGVSQgAvDFEHqWjKJ0CRN+CiHZr5uVz2dwADViv
Jz3OupMQ0IrJO0W1GmrtoACI2nTChMhFMTAbNvhbVGXnRTSCdUUoHrUBhIhlCus4
+hZekrSGYDCVqLuSDwSbHtgSwWRGOvFpP9610esL97zTb/Vqw0j3LSG2M6OXAtI9
DIIRZgexMum7N8Aiv3Z53CWYril94Q4Y+AS+LLKmDlMsqXW6XH5PV5vB6TQCpspW
pi8NvlZd9HhDWC0YtXbRDVmzdr6rS0rYp1Esj6W95o5zuQn0CkrP8FqDdhBfmC1q
FZQnxLDe4MAbJ4D/EZI5v26sMCVm3PAPWFDoWGAocSucL7/B088ntQ==
=ClXl
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----




From moe at whooshweb.com  Wed Oct  2 00:59:03 2002
From: moe at whooshweb.com (DawnMarie Moe)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 15:59:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] INTERACTIVE MAP  HELPS ARTS WALKERS PLAN THEIR WALK
Message-ID: <DEEGKBPMCGOBKKIPCKMKGELMCOAA.moe@whooshweb.com>


OlympiaOnline.com  - Thurston county's ad-free, cost-free online community -
announced today the publication of the first interactive version of the Arts
Walk map.

	?We thought this would be a nice community contribution to the Arts Walk
this year.  Part of the Walk is a 12-year retrospective of Arts Walk map and
poster design,? said DawnMarie Moe, web developer and owner of WhooshWeb,
Inc.,  ?and it just makes sense that there should be an interactive version.
So we teamed up with OlympiaOnline to provide it.?

	The online version of the map reveals information about the artists as
reader hover their mouse over the numbered locations.  It is also connected
to a database of Arts Walk information which can be sorted online to give
easy access to artists, events, times, and locations.  In addition, there is
a printable PDF version of the map.

	Links to the map and database can be found at www.olympiaonline.com.  Take
a look and Plan Your Walk today!

Arts Walk 2002 will be held on Friday, October 4.

DawnMarie Moe
WhooshWeb, Inc. / OlympiaOnline
www.whooshweb.com
www.olympiaonline.com
360.455.7075 (tel) ~ 360.838.2180 (fax)
The work of an individual still remains the spark that moves mankind
forward.
- Igor Sikorsky, Russian-born American engineer




From dmpadilla at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  1 13:06:38 2002
From: dmpadilla at mindspring.com (David Padilla)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 04:06:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20020716090107.00a28240@rlw.best.vwh.net>
Message-ID: <MABBJODKLBEOIMCLENECEEPICJAA.dmpadilla@mindspring.com>

My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list. 

How is this done? I have seen it done with .php, but that is beyond me. Is there there a Perl program, or other program availble for this? Is there a hosting company which provides this feature for a reasonable fee? I have review much of Webmonkey and searched the Web without success. I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks,
David




From pontus.falk at fro.se  Wed Oct  2 02:33:35 2002
From: pontus.falk at fro.se (Pontus Falk)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:33:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
Message-ID: <007b01c269ab$585e62e0$0101a8c0@localdomain>

Hi!

I'm trying to setup Mailman on Red Hat 7.3.

Everythings seems to be OK until I run the newlist command. Shouldn't that
command update the /etc/aliases file? Well, it doesn't...

Any ideas?

/Pontus





From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Oct  2 02:44:16 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:44:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
In-Reply-To: <007b01c269ab$585e62e0$0101a8c0@localdomain>
References: <007b01c269ab$585e62e0$0101a8c0@localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021001174416.4d0435a5.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:33:35 +0200
"Pontus Falk" <pontus.falk at fro.se> wrote:

> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to setup Mailman on Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> Everythings seems to be OK until I run the newlist command.
> Shouldn't that command update the /etc/aliases file? Well, it
> doesn't...
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> /Pontus

No.  "Newlist" does not update the command.  You have to login as
root and update the /etc/aliases file and then run "newaliases" as
root.

--
Raquel
============================================================
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
underneath his own home.
  --Harrold Stassen




From pontus.falk at fro.se  Wed Oct  2 03:08:48 2002
From: pontus.falk at fro.se (Pontus Falk)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:08:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thanks...
Message-ID: <00d901c269b0$44016d60$0101a8c0@localdomain>

So, now I know that I have to update /etc/aliases by myself... Thanks to
everyon!!!

When I now start a new list I get a message back...

<message>
You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

    http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/admin/skansen

The web page for users of your mailing list is:

    http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/listinfo/skansen
<end>

How do I tell Mailman that my domain name is se.homelinux.org?





From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Oct  2 03:48:00 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:48:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thanks...
In-Reply-To: <00d901c269b0$44016d60$0101a8c0@localdomain>
References: <00d901c269b0$44016d60$0101a8c0@localdomain>
Message-ID: <20021001184800.00e43224.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:08:48 +0200
"Pontus Falk" <pontus.falk at fro.se> wrote:

> So, now I know that I have to update /etc/aliases by myself...
> Thanks to everyon!!!
> 
> When I now start a new list I get a message back...
> 
> <message>
> You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:
> 
>     http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/admin/skansen
> 
> The web page for users of your mailing list is:
> 
>     http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/listinfo/skansen
> <end>
> 
> How do I tell Mailman that my domain name is se.homelinux.org?

What version are you using?

--
Raquel
============================================================
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
underneath his own home.
  --Harrold Stassen




From pontus.falk at fro.se  Wed Oct  2 04:04:01 2002
From: pontus.falk at fro.se (Pontus Falk)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 04:04:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Thanks...
References: <00d901c269b0$44016d60$0101a8c0@localdomain> <20021001184800.00e43224.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <013401c269b7$faa2cc60$0101a8c0@localdomain>

So, I solved the "localhost.localdomain" problem... When I now try to
confirm a subscription I get the following in return...

By the way, Im using Mailman 2.0.9... As installed with Red Hat 7.3...

<message>
This is an automated response.

There were problems with the email commands you sent to Mailman via
the administrative address <skansen-request at se.homelinux.org>.

To obtain instructions on valid Mailman email commands, send email to
<skansen-request at se.homelinux.org> with the word "help" in the subject
line or in the body of the message.

If you want to reach the human being that manages this mailing list,
please send your message to <skansen-admin at se.homelinux.org>.

The following is a detailed description of the problems.


***** confirm 849285
>>>>> An unexpected Mailman error has occurred.
>>>>>
>>>>> Please forward your request to the human list administrator in charge
>>>>> of this list at <skansen-admin at se.homelinux.org>.  The traceback is
>>>>> attached below and will be forwarded to the list administrator
>>>>> automatically.

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 223, in
ParseMailCommands
    self.__dispatch[cmd](args, line, msg)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 621, in
ProcessConfirmCmd
    self.ProcessConfirmation(cookie)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1026, in ProcessConfirmation
    got = Pending().confirmed(cookie)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 88, in confirmed
    self.__save(db)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Pending.py", line 111, in __save
    fp = open(self.db_path, "w")
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/mailman/data/pending_subscriptions.db'
<end>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raquel Rice" <raquel at thericehouse.net>
To: "mailman-users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 3:48 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Thanks...


> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 03:08:48 +0200
> "Pontus Falk" <pontus.falk at fro.se> wrote:
>
> > So, now I know that I have to update /etc/aliases by myself...
> > Thanks to everyon!!!
> >
> > When I now start a new list I get a message back...
> >
> > <message>
> > You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:
> >
> >     http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/admin/skansen
> >
> > The web page for users of your mailing list is:
> >
> >     http://localhost.localdomain/mailman/listinfo/skansen
> > <end>
> >
> > How do I tell Mailman that my domain name is se.homelinux.org?
>
> What version are you using?
>
> --
> Raquel
> ============================================================
> Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
> underneath his own home.
>   --Harrold Stassen
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>





From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Wed Oct  2 04:39:01 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:39:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beta upgrade FAQ or How-To?
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0209301018430.29844-100000@pooh.ASARian.org> 
		<3D98AA0C.F8C93E38@whidbey.com> <1033421671.9908.0.camel@lerlaptop.iadfw.net>
Message-ID: <3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>


Larry Rosenman wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 14:46, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> > I've decided that it's time to make the jump to the beta, and I'm wondering if anyone is maintaining
> > any guides for the process. I have a new list to setup, which will be my first with a virtual domain,
> > but I also have a dozen current lists to preserve.
> >
> > I assume that this is touched on in the docs with the package, but would like to at least look at
> > anything else out there before I actually tackle the change.

>
> it was a no brainer.  just make sure that you have Python 2.2.1, and do
> the right scripting to start it.

Okay, I've spent four or five hours trying to figure out how to get Python 2.2.1 installed with no success
at all. Every attempt is met with a long string of unmet dependencies. If I have to upgrade the blasted
machine from RedHat 6.2, which works perfectly well in this context, in order to move forware with MailMan
I'm going to have to rethink the whole idea.

I did find a RedHat 6.2 RPM for  Python, but reports:
error: failed dependencies:
        libcrypto.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
        libexpat.so.0 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
        libssl.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1

Are those likely to be in one of the other Python RPMs, like python2-devel or python2-tools? Or will those
just expose six hundred more dependencies?

Van


--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From innocence_wasted at hotmail.com  Wed Oct  2 04:49:07 2002
From: innocence_wasted at hotmail.com (Sparklez Grrl)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:49:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailto Link? 2nd time
Message-ID: <OE42rQVD7VUz4NSinsE0000950a@hotmail.com>

Norm. StatHi!

I was wondering if there was a way for me to .. make a mailto link to a request_to_join at domainname.com (for example).. that goes directly to the mailman database and submits them as a subscriber and don't have to go to the general list info page? Thanks..

Luvz, Hugz k Friendship 
Jackie..Y 

Innocence Wasted 
www.innocencewasted.com
Help Stop Domestic Violence..Sign the Petition 
Help Stop Domestic Violence..Sign the Petition 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021001/b886d204/attachment.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: Sparklez Grrl.vcf
Type: text/x-vcard
Size: 263 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021001/b886d204/attachment.vcf 

From raquel at thericehouse.net  Wed Oct  2 05:25:36 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 20:25:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beta upgrade FAQ or How-To?
In-Reply-To: <3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0209301018430.29844-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
	<3D98AA0C.F8C93E38@whidbey.com>
	<1033421671.9908.0.camel@lerlaptop.iadfw.net>
	<3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <20021001202536.0a8c8d89.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:39:01 -0700
"G. Armour Van Horn" <vanhorn at whidbey.com> wrote:

> 
> Okay, I've spent four or five hours trying to figure out how to
> get Python 2.2.1 installed with no success at all. Every attempt
> is met with a long string of unmet dependencies. If I have to
> upgrade the blasted machine from RedHat 6.2, which works perfectly
> well in this context, in order to move forware with MailMan I'm
> going to have to rethink the whole idea.
> 
> I did find a RedHat 6.2 RPM for  Python, but reports:
> error: failed dependencies:
>         libcrypto.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
>         libexpat.so.0 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
>         libssl.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
> 
> Are those likely to be in one of the other Python RPMs, like
> python2-devel or python2-tools? Or will those just expose six
> hundred more dependencies?
> 
> Van

I don't have an answer to your exact question.  I can tell you
though that I run RH 6.1.  I downloaded and installed, with no
problems, Python 2.2.1 from the source, rather than from RPMs.

--
Raquel
============================================================
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
underneath his own home.
  --Harrold Stassen




From kremels at kreme.com  Wed Oct  2 08:41:12 2002
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 00:41:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <MABBJODKLBEOIMCLENECEEPICJAA.dmpadilla@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <F1499AFC-D5D1-11D6-BAAE-00050279C409@kreme.com>

On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:

> My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to 
> use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on 
> many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a 
> button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.

This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every 
list of spammers known, and then some.

Bad bad bad bad bad idea.  Some scumball starts hitting that page with 
millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his 
spam.  No thanks.

-- 
Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting 
you
were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective.  -- 
Seventeen magazine




From dmpadilla at mindspring.com  Tue Oct  1 21:18:45 2002
From: dmpadilla at mindspring.com (David Padilla)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 12:18:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <F1499AFC-D5D1-11D6-BAAE-00050279C409@kreme.com>
Message-ID: <MABBJODKLBEOIMCLENECAEPOCJAA.dmpadilla@mindspring.com>

I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next newletter, or anouncement, etc.

Thanks,
david

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of LuKreme
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 11:41 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: One Button Direct Subscription
> 
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, October 1, 2002, at 05:06 AM, David Padilla wrote:
> 
> > My web host provides a Mailman mailing list software. I would like to 
> > use it to provide direct subscription to a mailing list, as you see on 
> > many websites. You know, where you type in your e-mail, click a 
> > button, and you are then subscribed to a mailing list.
> 
> This is a very good way to get yourself )and your ISP) listed in every 
> list of spammers known, and then some.
> 
> Bad bad bad bad bad idea.  Some scumball starts hitting that page with 
> millions of subscribe requests and then uses your list to deliver his 
> spam.  No thanks.
> 
> -- 
> Conversations are so difficult. You risk changing yourself, admitting 
> you
> were wrong, coming to appreciate the other person's perspective.  -- 
> Seventeen magazine
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From william+mm at hq.newdream.net  Wed Oct  2 10:10:47 2002
From: william+mm at hq.newdream.net (Will Yardley)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 01:10:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <MABBJODKLBEOIMCLENECAEPOCJAA.dmpadilla@mindspring.com>
References: <F1499AFC-D5D1-11D6-BAAE-00050279C409@kreme.com> <MABBJODKLBEOIMCLENECAEPOCJAA.dmpadilla@mindspring.com>
Message-ID: <20021002081047.GO31511@hq.newdream.net>

David Padilla wrote:

> I should have been more clear. I want to create direct subscription to
> announcement only lists, similiar to those see ALL over the net. You
> know those, add your e-mail and become subscirbed to our next
> newletter, or anouncement, etc.

Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone
can subscribe anyone else to your list.

This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like
this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.

-- 
Will Yardley
input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >




From pahud at ezplay.tv  Wed Oct  2 10:52:00 2002
From: pahud at ezplay.tv (Patrick Hsieh)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 16:52:00 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to customize subscription success welcome message?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209272328520.9768-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
References: <20020927182310.0334.PAHUD@ezplay.tv> <Pine.LNX.4.30.0209272328520.9768-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
Message-ID: <20021002165102.94F0.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>

Hello <mailman at tux.org>,

I am using mailman 2.0.13 on Debian testing.
If I can't do this in 2.0.x, is there anyway to find out the
new-subscriber welcome message file? I hope I can change the content of
it. Thank you.


On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:33:27 -0400 (EDT)
<mailman at tux.org> wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Patrick Hsieh wrote:
> 
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I've read the FAQ and can't find any idea about this.
> 
> (assuming v2.0.x; the same or very similar will certainly apply to
> v2.1 as well)
> 
> How about "List-specific text prepended to new-subscriber welcome
> message"?  This is in the admin interface, under "General Options"
> (i.e., the first page), the 6th item down from the top.
> 
> - Andrew
> 
>   ----------------------------------------------------------------
>   Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

-- 
Patrick Hsieh <pahud at ezplay.tv>

GPG public key http://pahud.net/pubkeys/pahudatezplay.gpg




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Wed Oct  2 11:53:06 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 10:53:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beta upgrade FAQ or How-To?
In-Reply-To: <20021001202536.0a8c8d89.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
 <Pine.BSF.4.44.0209301018430.29844-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
 <3D98AA0C.F8C93E38@whidbey.com>
 <1033421671.9908.0.camel@lerlaptop.iadfw.net>
 <3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021002103143.0210bb00@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 04:25 02/10/2002, Raquel Rice wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Oct 2002 19:39:01 -0700
>"G. Armour Van Horn" <vanhorn at whidbey.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Okay, I've spent four or five hours trying to figure out how to
> > get Python 2.2.1 installed with no success at all. Every attempt
> > is met with a long string of unmet dependencies. If I have to
> > upgrade the blasted machine from RedHat 6.2, which works perfectly
> > well in this context, in order to move forware with MailMan I'm
> > going to have to rethink the whole idea.
> >
> > I did find a RedHat 6.2 RPM for  Python, but reports:
> > error: failed dependencies:
> >         libcrypto.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
> >         libexpat.so.0 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
> >         libssl.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1
> >
> > Are those likely to be in one of the other Python RPMs, like
> > python2-devel or python2-tools? Or will those just expose six
> > hundred more dependencies?
> >
> > Van

These shared libaries are in other packages but the Python you are trying 
to install is configured to provide optional modules that use them. The 
Python RPM you are using was built on a system with these other packages 
installed and the Python RPM you have is now dependent on them.

If you build Python 2.2.1 from source on your machine it will hopefully 
detect which optional modules it can include based on what is installed on 
your machine. Either that or you can adjust the Modules setup file to meet 
your needs.. Either download the Python source .tgz or you could try using 
the SRPM that is the companion to the RPM you've been using.

Personally, I always build from the .tgz as I find it simple and reliable.

If you use the SRPM you may have to modify the SPEC file, depending on how 
that is set up,  to avoid the same problem with the RPM you reconstruct 
from it.

>I don't have an answer to your exact question.  I can tell you
>though that I run RH 6.1.  I downloaded and installed, with no
>problems, Python 2.2.1 from the source, rather than from RPMs.
>
>--
>Raquel
>============================================================
>Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
>underneath his own home.
>   --Harrold Stassen




From jimpop at rocketship.com  Wed Oct  2 13:23:39 2002
From: jimpop at rocketship.com (Jim Popovitch)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 07:23:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <20021002081047.GO31511@hq.newdream.net>
Message-ID: <FMELKIGJMCKDEONBJEDGMEGKEFAA.jimpop@rocketship.com>

Hi Will,

That is not entirely true.  Sometimes you already have the person
authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking software), and all
that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by
pressing one button.

-Jim P.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Yardley
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM
>
> Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; otherwise anyone
> can subscribe anyone else to your list.
>
> This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a system like
> this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
>
> --
> Will Yardley
> input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >












From mailman at tux.org  Wed Oct  2 14:08:14 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 08:08:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] is it possible to customize subscription
 success welcome message?
In-Reply-To: <20021002165102.94F0.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210020802460.3884-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Wed, 2 Oct 2002, Patrick Hsieh wrote:

> I am using mailman 2.0.13 on Debian testing.
> If I can't do this in 2.0.x, is there anyway to find out the
> new-subscriber welcome message file? I hope I can change the
> content of it. Thank you.

Okay, sounds like you are talking about changing the entire welcome
message, not just adding your own text to it.  In that case, you need
to edit code.  Start with ~/mailman/Mailman/Deliverer.py

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/


> On Fri, 27 Sep 2002 23:33:27 -0400 (EDT)
> <mailman at tux.org> wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 27 Sep 2002, Patrick Hsieh wrote:
> >
> > > Hello all,
> > >
> > > I've read the FAQ and can't find any idea about this.
> >
> > (assuming v2.0.x; the same or very similar will certainly apply to
> > v2.1 as well)
> >
> > How about "List-specific text prepended to new-subscriber welcome
> > message"?  This is in the admin interface, under "General Options"
> > (i.e., the first page), the 6th item down from the top.
> >
> > - Andrew




From ler at lerctr.org  Wed Oct  2 14:22:12 2002
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: 02 Oct 2002 07:22:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beta upgrade FAQ or How-To?
In-Reply-To: <3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0209301018430.29844-100000@pooh.ASARian.org> 
	<3D98AA0C.F8C93E38@whidbey.com>
	<1033421671.9908.0.camel@lerlaptop.iadfw.net> 
	<3D9A5C45.41165076@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <1033561332.377.2.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>

On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 21:39, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> 
> 
> Larry Rosenman wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 14:46, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> > > I've decided that it's time to make the jump to the beta, and I'm wondering if anyone is maintaining
> > > any guides for the process. I have a new list to setup, which will be my first with a virtual domain,
> > > but I also have a dozen current lists to preserve.
> > >
> > > I assume that this is touched on in the docs with the package, but would like to at least look at
> > > anything else out there before I actually tackle the change.
> 
> >
> > it was a no brainer.  just make sure that you have Python 2.2.1, and do
> > the right scripting to start it.
> 
> Okay, I've spent four or five hours trying to figure out how to get Python 2.2.1 installed with no success
> at all. Every attempt is met with a long string of unmet dependencies. If I have to upgrade the blasted
> machine from RedHat 6.2, which works perfectly well in this context, in order to move forware with MailMan
> I'm going to have to rethink the whole idea.
> 
> I did find a RedHat 6.2 RPM for  Python, but reports:
> error: failed dependencies:
>         libcrypto.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1  **OPENSSL
>         libexpat.so.0 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1 expat, should be standalone
>         libssl.so.2 is needed by python2-2.2.1-1 **openSSL
> 
> Are those likely to be in one of the other Python RPMs, like python2-devel or python2-tools? Or will those
> just expose six hundred more dependencies?
> 
nah.

> Van
> 
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
> on a theme delivered every morning.
> Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
> mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD
> 
> For web hosting and maintenance,
> visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749




From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Wed Oct  2 15:14:15 2002
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 02 Oct 2002 15:14:15 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML welcome messages
In-Reply-To: "Angel Gabriel"'s message of "Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:10:04 +0100"
References: <007901c26965$01584290$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>
Message-ID: <m3ofad9e54.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

"Angel Gabriel" <badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk> writes:

> Is it possible to have a HTML welcome message sent out to my subscribers,
> instead of text based ones? I mean in get mails from Tech Republic, and they
> are CRISP! It's just a thought!

HTML Mail ist bad. If you want it, edit your
$MAILMANHOME/templates/subscribeack.txt.


Please send no Cc.
Detlef Neubauer
-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://www.keyserver.net/ Oo.




From detlef.neubauer at charite.de  Wed Oct  2 15:20:01 2002
From: detlef.neubauer at charite.de (Detlef Neubauer)
Date: 02 Oct 2002 15:20:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailto Link? 2nd time
In-Reply-To: "Sparklez Grrl"'s message of "Tue, 1 Oct 2002 19:49:07 -0700"
References: <OE42rQVD7VUz4NSinsE0000950a@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <m3k7l19dvi.fsf@mailman.charite.de>

"Sparklez Grrl" <innocence_wasted at hotmail.com> writes:

> I was wondering if there was a way for me to .. make a mailto link to
> a request_to_join at domainname.com (for example).. that goes directly to
> the mailman database and submits them as a subscriber and don't have
> to go to the general list info page? Thanks..

?

You can make <a href="mailto:list-request at domain.tld?subject=subcribe;body=subscribe">foobar</a>
If this not work, try , not ;.
Or <a href="http://host.domain.tld/mailman/listinfo/list">foobar</a>


Please send no Cc.
Detlef Neubauer
-- 
.oO GnuPG Key auf http://www.keyserver.net/ Oo.




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  2 15:20:41 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 02 Oct 2002 09:20:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
In-Reply-To: <20021001174416.4d0435a5.raquel@thericehouse.net>
References: <007b01c269ab$585e62e0$0101a8c0@localdomain> 
	<20021001174416.4d0435a5.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <1033564842.2455.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

newlist -o


On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 20:44, Raquel Rice wrote:
> On Wed, 2 Oct 2002 02:33:35 +0200
> "Pontus Falk" <pontus.falk at fro.se> wrote:
> 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I'm trying to setup Mailman on Red Hat 7.3.
> > 
> > Everythings seems to be OK until I run the newlist command.
> > Shouldn't that command update the /etc/aliases file? Well, it
> > doesn't...
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > /Pontus
> 
> No.  "Newlist" does not update the command.  You have to login as
> root and update the /etc/aliases file and then run "newaliases" as
> root.
> 
> --
> Raquel
> ============================================================
> Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance is lighting a fire
> underneath his own home.
>   --Harrold Stassen
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From mliceaga7 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  2 15:47:31 2002
From: mliceaga7 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mariano=20Liceaga?=)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:47:31 -0300 (ART)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems trying to make mailman work
Message-ID: <20021002134731.26464.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>

I downloaded the last version from the list.org site,
installed it with no problem, configured the cron job
and created a test list. The notification to the owner
of the list was correctly sent. 

The problem is when I try to suscribe or ask for help
to the list (sending a mail to test-request at myhost
with the subjects 'subscribe' or 'help') never receive
a confirmation message or any answer at all. The
mailman queue directory is empty, so I guess that
mailman is not receiving the mails.

Mailman is configured in  SMTPDirect mode (the default
mode).The host in which is running has a web server,
firewall and a basic sendmail config where everything
that comes from the inner network is relayed to our
ISP smtp server.
Can somebody explain me how the SMTPDirect mode works?
It?s only for the outgoing mail? What can be my
problem?? Please give me stuff to try, I've spended
more than 2 days and still nothing, even worse, no
more ideas. 
Somebody help me please!! 




Ahora pod?s usar Yahoo! Messenger desde tu celular. Aprend? c?mo hacerlo en Yahoo! M?vil: http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/sms.html



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  2 16:11:51 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 02 Oct 2002 10:11:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems trying to make mailman work
In-Reply-To: <20021002134731.26464.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021002134731.26464.qmail@web13807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1033567911.1732.24.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

First place to check is the log files for Mailman: ~mailman/logs/..
Then run through your MTA's log files.

If you don't find any errors logged or bounced/refused messages then you
need to look at your firewall rules and the setup of your MTA.

Are you installing this on a Linux box?  What Distribution?  Red Hat
adds some interesting security "features" to Sendmail that need to be
circumvented for Mailman to work properly.

Good Luck!

On Wed, 2002-10-02 at 09:47, Mariano Liceaga wrote:
> I downloaded the last version from the list.org site,
> installed it with no problem, configured the cron job
> and created a test list. The notification to the owner
> of the list was correctly sent. 
> 
> The problem is when I try to suscribe or ask for help
> to the list (sending a mail to test-request at myhost
> with the subjects 'subscribe' or 'help') never receive
> a confirmation message or any answer at all. The
> mailman queue directory is empty, so I guess that
> mailman is not receiving the mails.
> 
> Mailman is configured in  SMTPDirect mode (the default
> mode).The host in which is running has a web server,
> firewall and a basic sendmail config where everything
> that comes from the inner network is relayed to our
> ISP smtp server.
> Can somebody explain me how the SMTPDirect mode works?
> It?s only for the outgoing mail? What can be my
> problem?? Please give me stuff to try, I've spended
> more than 2 days and still nothing, even worse, no
> more ideas. 
> Somebody help me please!! 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ahora pod?s usar Yahoo! Messenger desde tu celular. Aprend? c?mo hacerlo en Yahoo! M?vil: http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/sms.html
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Wed Oct  2 19:07:20 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 18:07:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can I get messages that I have to approve forwarded to my mail?
Message-ID: <001001c26a36$2c1224c0$1c01a8c0@voda>

I think the subject says it all. I'd like to get mesages that I need to
approve forwarded to me, because it's possible that I may but five or six of
them together in one message, and post that out instead.

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.bounceme.net/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.bounceme.net
***




From kenc at heavy.com  Wed Oct  2 19:06:30 2002
From: kenc at heavy.com (Ken Carson)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 13:06:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Approving Messages
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002125813.05f1aef8@imap.heavy.com>

I have been using mailman for a while now about 1 year or so.  I have never 
had any problems except about 1 week ago.  I went to approve some messages 
on our system (was 2.0.05) and when I clicked on the "Tend to pending 
administrative requests" link, I get the "Were sorry we hit a bug 
message".  I checked the error logs and I am getting "bad marshal data" 
errors on the Hold.py and ListAdmin.py.

I updated to versio 2.0.13 because I saw some people fixed this problem by 
doing this, but still get the same error.  I also rebuild the offending 
database.

Here is the messages from the error logs:

Oct 02 12:55:02 2002 (3429) Delivery exception: bad marshal data
Oct 02 12:55:02 2002 (3429) Traceback (innermost last):
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 159, in process
     hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, NotExplicitlyAllowed)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in hold_for_approval
     mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 145, in HoldMessage
     self.__opendb()
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
ValueError: bad marshal data

This is a production system (redhat 7.1 with postfix) so, I need to get it 
back functioning properly ASAP.  If anyone has any ideas, please let me know.

Thanks.



--
Ken Carson
Heavy




From gargp at earthlink.net  Thu Oct  3 05:51:53 2002
From: gargp at earthlink.net (Pankaj K Garg)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 20:51:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Developers] RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
Message-ID: <000201c26a90$37f8ead0$8d835f0f@home.org>

Yes, indeed this is the situation I am also in. I have an application,
somewhat like SourceForge, where we embed Mailman as the list manager.
The user is already logged in to the main application, and we know
the user's email address, etc. So, its not very nice to have:
(1) separate passwords for each mailing list, and (2) require the user
to type in their identity and password for subscription, options editing,
and un-subscribe requests.

I'm in the process of changing some of the Cgi scripts and making a
few changes to Mailman 2.0.9 to remove these aspects for an already
authenticated user.

If others are interested, I can put a patch together with the latest
Mailman code.

Regards

Pankaj
 
P.S. I am resending this message to mailman-users as my previous reply
to the original message from Jim did not make it to this list. That reply
was cc'd to Jim, Will, and the mailman-developers list.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:24 AM
> To: Will Yardley; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
> 
> 
> Hi Will,
> 
> That is not entirely true.  Sometimes you already have the person
> authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking 
> software), and all
> that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by
> pressing one button.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Will Yardley
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM
> >
> > Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; 
> otherwise anyone
> > can subscribe anyone else to your list.
> >
> > This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a 
> system like
> > this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
> >
> > --
> > Will Yardley
> > input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


_______________________________________________
Mailman-Developers mailing list
Mailman-Developers at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman-21/listinfo/mailman-developers




From greg at gregwestin.com  Thu Oct  3 05:26:06 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 23:26:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing not detected?
Message-ID: <D9F9D7D8-D67F-11D6-833B-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>

On one of our lists, posters receive bounce messages from some users 
that apparently don't exist, but Mailman doesn't pick it up.  Those 
e-mail addresses aren't subscribed to the list, so I assume someone is 
forwarding their e-mail, but I don't know of any way to figure out 
which user that might be.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Greg
--
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php




From greg at gregwestin.com  Thu Oct  3 06:12:36 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:12:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing welcome messages list by list?
Message-ID: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>

Is there a way to allow list administrators to customize the welcome 
message sent out to new subscribers, or does this have to be done on a 
site-wide basis?

Thanks,

Greg

--
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php




From pahud at ezplay.tv  Thu Oct  3 11:22:27 2002
From: pahud at ezplay.tv (Patrick Hsieh)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:22:27 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing welcome messages list by list?
In-Reply-To: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
Message-ID: <20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>

Hello Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com>,

I am running mailman 2.0.13 on Debian testing.
In my case, just modify /etc/mailman/subscribeack.txt.



On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:12:36 -0400
Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to allow list administrators to customize the welcome 
> message sent out to new subscribers, or does this have to be done on a 
> site-wide basis?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Greg
> 
> --
> greg at gregwestin.com
> http://www.gregwestin.com
> Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

-- 
Patrick Hsieh <pahud at ezplay.tv>

GPG public key http://pahud.net/pubkeys/pahudatezplay.gpg




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Thu Oct  3 12:20:00 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 03:20:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade failure to 2.1b3
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com> <20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>
Message-ID: <3D9C19D0.9BE4C4CB@whidbey.com>

I've been running Mailman for most of two years, going from 2.0.5 to 2.0.12+ on a
very lightly loaded K6-233. I've finally been convinced to move up. Last night I
reved RedHat from 6.2 to 7.2, installed Python2 2.2.1, and generally brought
things up to date.

I also added virtual host support to Postfix, as I have a client that wants this
on their new list. I am now hosting DNS for their domain, and mail to their domain
through the Postfix-style virtual host works.

I decided not to change the Mailman location at this time, so I used the
following  config:

./configure --with-mail-gid=99 --with-cgi-gid=99 --prefix=/home/mailman
--with-python=/usr/bin/python2

The configure runs fine right down to the end where it tells me I don't have
Chinese Unicode support and sends me off to a location where there aren't any
files, but I don't really expect to have a lot of Chinese customers on here. It's
the next step that is stopping me:

make install runs smoothly for several minutes, but concludes with this:

> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/update", line 44, in ?
>     import paths
> ImportError: No module named paths
> make: *** [update] Error 1
>

The appropriate section in /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3/build/bin/update looks like
this:


> import paths
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> from Mailman import Utils
> from Mailman import MailList
> from Mailman.LockFile import TimeOutError
> from Mailman.i18n import _
> from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
>

I tried commenting them out one at a time, but each time I just had to comment out
the next one. I blew away everything in the /home/mailman directory except the
lists, logs, and archives and got the same result. Just to be thorough, I cleaned
everything out, blew away the /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3 directory, extracted the
install files again, and there was no change. I even downloaded another copy of
the tarball.

So what am I missing?

Van



--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021003/53246193/attachment.htm 

From greg at gregwestin.com  Thu Oct  3 15:59:15 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:59:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customizing welcome messages list by list?
In-Reply-To: <20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
        <20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>
Message-ID: <14737.155.41.10.1.1033653555.squirrel@webmail.gregwestin.com>

So you're saying that there isn't any way to modify it on a list by list
basis?

Thanks.

Greg

<quote who="Patrick Hsieh">
> Hello Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com>,
>
> I am running mailman 2.0.13 on Debian testing.
> In my case, just modify /etc/mailman/subscribeack.txt.
>
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 00:12:36 -0400
> Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there a way to allow list administrators to customize the welcome
>> message sent out to new subscribers, or does this have to be done on a
>>  site-wide basis?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Greg
>>

-- 
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php





From tsmith at rcairplanes.com  Thu Oct  3 17:13:01 2002
From: tsmith at rcairplanes.com (Thomas C. Smith, D.C.)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 09:13:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cronjobs broken...
References: <D9F9D7D8-D67F-11D6-833B-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
Message-ID: <006e01c26aef$67363910$78bcb38e@doctor>

python-2.2.1-17
mailman 2.0.13

I get the following errors from my cronjobs...

/usr/mailman/cron/qrunner:0: SyntaxWarning: name '_listcache' is assigned to
before global declaration
/usr/lib/python2.2/regsub.py:15: DeprecationWarning: the regsub module is
deprecated; please use re.sub()
  DeprecationWarning)


Help!





From kenc at heavy.com  Thu Oct  3 17:24:36 2002
From: kenc at heavy.com (Ken Carson)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:24:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sorry We Hit a Bug
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003112215.03881510@imap.heavy.com>

Hello, I am getting this error on my logs and now I can't "approve" any 
postings.  Anyone know what happened?  Mailman was working fine until about 
a week ago when this start.  I have upgraded to 2.0.13 and it didn't help.

admin(5304): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.13 -----]
admin(5304): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(5304): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(5304):   File "/usr/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(5304):     main()
admin(5304):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 115, in main
admin(5304):     PrintRequests(mlist, doc)
admin(5304):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 131, in 
PrintRequests
admin(5304):     if not mlist.NumRequestsPending():
admin(5304):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 96, in 
NumRequestsPending
admin(5304):     self.__opendb()
admin(5304):   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
admin(5304):     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
admin(5304): ValueError: bad marshal data

Anything will help at this point, please let me know if any of you have see 
this.

--
Ken Carson
Heavy




From wheakory at isu.edu  Thu Oct  3 20:59:12 2002
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:59:12 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Edit a message then approve it
Message-ID: <3D9C9380.188031CB@isu.edu>

I have tried the below documentation for editing a held message then
approving it or sending it through, but it does not work.

Steps:

I forward the message to myself and click on the Reply-to, to bring it
up for editing
and then I edit the message (I'm using netscape messenger to do so). How
do I do this part of the documentation "
- Resend the message to the list using a Resent-To: header containing
the list posting address." There is no Resent-To: header option when you
compose a message in the Netscape Mail Client, so then I put the
Approval Header in the very first line of the body of the message
"Approved:password" which I use the site mailman password. I send the
message off  (which I use the mailman mailing list address), and the
message is sent to me with the "Approval:password" in the first line of
the message, the reason it was not held for approval is because I allow
my subscribed email to post without approval but the message did not
edit properly, because it shows the Approval:password in the first line
of the body. What I'm I doing wrong.



3.9. How do I edit a held message before approving it for the list?

Here's how to do this:

- Use the "forward this message" feature in the admindb page to forward
the message to yourself.

- At the same time, discard the original held message. You may want to
do this later, after you're sure the message was properly
forwarded to you.

- Edit the message in your mail reader. You should include a notice in
the message explaining that the list moderator has edited the
message. Please use proper netiquette!

- Resend the message to the list using a Resent-To: header containing
the list posting address. Also include an Approved: header
containing the list's admin password.

Viola! The edited message should be forwarded to the list membership.

==========

Alternatively, you can edit the actual held message found in
~mailman/data/... The message will be in a file called
heldmsg-<listname>-<number>.txt

You can use "grep" to find the message, and your favorite editor to
change it.

Once you have modified the message, feel free to approve it.

The web-interface shows you a portion of the message that has been
copied into a database called request.db. When you edit the
message via the web-interface you are actually editing the portion
captured in request.db and not the original message.

Approval of the message sends the actual held message from
~mailman/data/..

==========

Note for Mailman 2.1: the second suggestion about doesn't work so well
because by default, held messages are stored on disks in a
more efficient binary representation called a "pickle". Pickles aren't
normally editable. If you still want to use the second suggestion, you
might want to set HOLD_MESSAGES_AS_PICKLES in ListAdmin.py to 0, which
tells Mailman to store them using the older, less
efficient, plaintext representation instead of pickles.

I still don't like the second suggestion much because it is limited to
only those who have access to the system disk and command line.
Also, in MM2.1 the admindb interface doesn't fool you into thinking you
can edit the message, as the text areas are now read-only.

Edit this entry / Log info / Last changed on Thu Apr 18 23:31:06 2002 by
Barry Warsaw

--
#########################################
Kory Wheatley
Academic Computing Analyst Sr.
Phone 282-3874
#########################################
Everything must point to him.





From bayak at jwjpdx.org  Thu Oct  3 21:24:02 2002
From: bayak at jwjpdx.org (bayak at jwjpdx.org)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:24:02 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix transport problem
Message-ID: <61348.207.225.79.149.1033673042.squirrel@207.202.128.155>

Hello,

I am having trouble with transport. trivial-rewrite is getting this error

fatal:open database /etc/postfix/transport.db Invalid Argument

I added this line to the transport file and ran postmap

(I'm using this script http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman.py)

lists.mydomain.org  mailman:

But the transport.db file is empty.

Any ideas?







From trish.morley at sri.com  Thu Oct  3 21:11:08 2002
From: trish.morley at sri.com (Trish Morley)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:11:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems trying to make mailman work 
References: <20021002160006.25991.81427.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3D9C964C.39235CCD@sri.com>

I have exactly the same problem as Mariano, with RedHat.  What are the
"features"?  How do we circumvent them? 

Thanks.

Jon Carnes wrote:
>Are you installing this on a Linux box?  What Distribution?  Red Hat
>adds some interesting security "features" to Sendmail that need to be
>circumvented for Mailman to work properly.

>Good Luck!

          On Wed, 2002-10-02 at 09:47, Mariano Liceaga wrote:
          > I downloaded the last version from the list.org site,
          > installed it with no problem, configured the cron job
          > and created a test list. The notification to the owner
          > of the list was correctly sent. 
          > 
          > The problem is when I try to suscribe or ask for help
          > to the list (sending a mail to test-request at myhost
          > with the subjects 'subscribe' or 'help') never receive
          > a confirmation message or any answer at all. The
          > mailman queue directory is empty, so I guess that
          > mailman is not receiving the mails.



From Jeremy at lr3.com  Thu Oct  3 21:25:32 2002
From: Jeremy at lr3.com (Jeremy Summers)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:25:32 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs cron job fails
Message-ID: <6720F68918F6D411949B00B0D011BD2045901D@mail.mail.lr3_corp.com>

I have Mailman 2.0.13 running several mailing lists and they are all working
fine except I get the following error every day at five when checkdbs runs

Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 43, in main
    count = mlist.NumRequestsPending()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 96, in NumRequestsPending
    self.__opendb()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
    self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
EOFError: EOF read where object expected

I get the same error if I try to run checkdbs manually.  Does anyone have
any idea what would be causing this?

Jeremy Summers




From kenc at heavy.com  Thu Oct  3 21:32:42 2002
From: kenc at heavy.com (Ken Carson)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:32:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs cron job fails
In-Reply-To: <6720F68918F6D411949B00B0D011BD2045901D@mail.mail.lr3_corp.
 com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021003152920.0936fec0@imap.heavy.com>

I go this error and now I can't get any of my db stuff work properly.  I 
get an error whenever I try to approve postings.

Sorry that I don't have a gootanswer but backup your data now while its 
still stable and try running check_perms -f you may luck out with a 
permissions problem.

The error you have is what I had, then I got a "bad marshal data" error, so 
far nothing I have found has fixed that one.



At 03:25 PM 10/3/2002 -0400, Jeremy Summers wrote:
>I have Mailman 2.0.13 running several mailing lists and they are all working
>fine except I get the following error every day at five when checkdbs runs
>
>Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 43, in main
>     count = mlist.NumRequestsPending()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 96, in NumRequestsPending
>     self.__opendb()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
>     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>EOFError: EOF read where object expected
>
>I get the same error if I try to run checkdbs manually.  Does anyone have
>any idea what would be causing this?
>
>Jeremy Summers
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


--
Ken Carson
Heavy




From Jeremy at lr3.com  Thu Oct  3 22:01:38 2002
From: Jeremy at lr3.com (Jeremy Summers)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:01:38 -0400 
Subject: FW: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs cron job fails
Message-ID: <6720F68918F6D411949B00B0D011BD2045901F@mail.mail.lr3_corp.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Jeremy Summers 
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 4:00 PM
To: 'Ken Carson'
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs cron job fails


I just fixed this problem.  For me, it was because on two of my lists, the
request.db had gotten corrupted somehow.  Request.db is located at
mailman/lists/<listname>/request.db.  I fixed it by overwriting the two
corrupt ones with a good one from a new test list that I created.  It should
only have a size of 2 when it is blank.  Before I fixed it, I was also
unable to tend to administrative tasks for those two lists, but I didn't
know because I'm not the administrator for them.  The administrator hasn't
been doing anything with it.

Hope this helps...

Jeremy Summers


-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Carson [mailto:kenc at heavy.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 3:33 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] checkdbs cron job fails


I go this error and now I can't get any of my db stuff work properly.  I 
get an error whenever I try to approve postings.

Sorry that I don't have a gootanswer but backup your data now while its 
still stable and try running check_perms -f you may luck out with a 
permissions problem.

The error you have is what I had, then I got a "bad marshal data" error, so 
far nothing I have found has fixed that one.



At 03:25 PM 10/3/2002 -0400, Jeremy Summers wrote:
>I have Mailman 2.0.13 running several mailing lists and they are all
working
>fine except I get the following error every day at five when checkdbs runs
>
>Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/home/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 43, in main
>     count = mlist.NumRequestsPending()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 96, in
NumRequestsPending
>     self.__opendb()
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
>     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
>EOFError: EOF read where object expected
>
>I get the same error if I try to run checkdbs manually.  Does anyone have
>any idea what would be causing this?
>
>Jeremy Summers
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


--
Ken Carson
Heavy


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From ander1 at wanadoo.es  Tue Oct  1 01:21:07 2002
From: ander1 at wanadoo.es (Ander)
Date: 01 Oct 2002 01:21:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I rename a list?
Message-ID: <1033428070.400.21.camel@agaliaretph>

Hello,
I would like to know if the is a way to rename a list.

Thanks





From matwood at orion.it.luc.edu  Tue Oct  1 18:21:29 2002
From: matwood at orion.it.luc.edu (Matthew Atwood)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 11:21:29 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reg exp in mailman 2.0.13
Message-ID: <20021001162129.4FBFD13E95@orion.it.luc.edu>

Hello,

 We're running mailman 2.0.13 and having lots of problems with people 
asking to be removed and posting to the list.  Is there a way to look for 
the word remove in the subject line and hold those posts for administrator 
approval?

Thanks,
Matt



From kenc at heavy.com  Tue Oct  1 20:26:45 2002
From: kenc at heavy.com (Ken Carson)
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 2002 14:26:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021001141140.045eff40@imap.heavy.com>

I have been using mailman with python, postfix and apache for about 1.5 
years.  I am now getting these errors all the time:

Oct 01 14:16:02 2002 (7749) Delivery exception: bad marshal data
Oct 01 14:16:02 2002 (7749) Traceback (innermost last):
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 159, in process
     hold_for_approval(mlist, msg, msgdata, NotExplicitlyAllowed)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 218, in hold_for_approval
     mlist.HoldMessage(msg, reason, msgdata)
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 145, in HoldMessage
     self.__opendb()
   File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 69, in __opendb
     self.__db = marshal.load(fp)
ValueError: bad marshal data

I have rebuild the databases, and upgraded to the latest version.  I can't 
really find any other info on this problem.  Lots of people have had it it 
from what I can find in news groups, web sites, etc many different things 
have fixed it.  Right now the largest mailing list we have is down and its 
a huge probelm.  (we get about 300 requests from our members a day to this 
list).

Anythng you can tell me would be helpful.



--
Ken Carson
Heavy




From gargp at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  2 03:11:20 2002
From: gargp at earthlink.net (Pankaj K Garg)
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 18:11:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
In-Reply-To: <007b01c269ab$585e62e0$0101a8c0@localdomain>
Message-ID: <000001c269b0$a0c598a0$8d835f0f@home.org>

No, the newlist command does not update /etc/aliases,
as you most probably require super user priviledges
to update /etc/aliases, while you may not require
super user priviledges to create a new list.

So, you have to do that manually.

Pankaj


> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Pontus Falk
> Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:34 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I'm trying to setup Mailman on Red Hat 7.3.
> 
> Everythings seems to be OK until I run the newlist command. 
> Shouldn't that
> command update the /etc/aliases file? Well, it doesn't...
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> /Pontus
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 



From gargp at earthlink.net  Wed Oct  2 19:03:12 2002
From: gargp at earthlink.net (Pankaj K Garg)
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 2002 10:03:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
In-Reply-To: <FMELKIGJMCKDEONBJEDGMEGKEFAA.jimpop@rocketship.com>
Message-ID: <000901c26a35$98aa8c40$8d835f0f@home.org>

Yes, indeed this is the situation I am also in. I have an application,
somewhat like SourceForge, where we embed Mailman as the list manager.
The user is already logged in to the main application, and we know
the user's email address, etc. So, its not very nice to have:
(1) separate passwords for each mailing list, and (2) require the user
to type in their identity and password for subscription, options editing,
and un-subscribe requests.

I'm in the process of changing some of the Cgi scripts and making a
few changes to Mailman 2.0.9 to remove these aspects for an already
authenticated user.

If others are interested, I can put a patch together with the latest
Mailman code.

Regards

Pankaj
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jim Popovitch
> Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:24 AM
> To: Will Yardley; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Re: Re: One Button Direct Subscription
> 
> 
> Hi Will,
> 
> That is not entirely true.  Sometimes you already have the person
> authenticated via another fashion (think: online banking 
> software), and all
> that you want to do is have the user subscribe for banking notices by
> pressing one button.
> 
> -Jim P.
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Will Yardley
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 02, 2002 4:11 AM
> >
> > Well in any event, you should confirm the subscription; 
> otherwise anyone
> > can subscribe anyone else to your list.
> >
> > This is known as confirmed opt-in, and if you don't use a 
> system like
> > this, you're very likely to get booted by your ISP for spamming.
> >
> > --
> > Will Yardley
> > input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From emymura at ucla.edu  Thu Oct  3 02:55:58 2002
From: emymura at ucla.edu (Emy Murakawa)
Date: Wed, 02 Oct 2002 17:55:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002175147.023f6758@pop.ucla.edu>

I had originally sent an e-mail to Christopher Kolar <ckolar at aurora.edu> as 
he had written the user help info, but aside from indicating that he had 
done it (so it must be possible) and that it would require some change in 
setting, he hasn't responded any further.  Of course, since he's no longer 
with mailman, I think he did very well to respond to me at all.  I then 
tried contacting help at python.org, and they suggested I go back to the 
mailman site and start again.

Can you help me out with something? CHIS has a listserv. I am familiar with 
entering new names, correcting them, and un-subscribing them, but here's 
the problem. I would like to make a couple of sections of the listserv a 
global sub-list. In other words, using a familiar group, I'd like to have 
faculty under one mail address that broadcasts to all. I.e., I'd like to be 
able to pick "Faculty" and be able to limit the group for edits, 
corrections, updates, etc. (in other words, a group cut-n-paste).

I don't know what this is technically called, but I've heard it referred to 
as a global group list and an umbrella subset (the entire listserv is the 
umbrella, and within the umbrella are several sub-sets). I'd appreciate any 
insight you might be able to give me!

Emy

Response from our IT:

Sorry Emy, but I haven't heard of anything like that being applicable to 
the Listserv software that we are using. We are currently using "Mailman" 
by www.python.org
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021002/f45f1d4f/attachment.html 

From dmitri at arvid.ee  Thu Oct  3 10:21:33 2002
From: dmitri at arvid.ee (Dmitri Gofmekler)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:21:33 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] International headers.
Message-ID: <001e01c26ab5$e3c35790$1a1eb4d5@lazer>

Hello Dear Mailman Users and authors,

I have a small problem with an archived messages with international
headers. Is it possible to see normal (decoded) subject instead this
one: =?koi8-r?B?8MXS18HRINfF0tPJ0SDMydPUwSDHz9TP18Eu?=


Thanks,
Dmitri.




From webb_k at suu.edu  Thu Oct  3 20:23:03 2002
From: webb_k at suu.edu (Kathleen Webb)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:23:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
Message-ID: <B9C1E727.321F%webb_k@suu.edu>

Hi,

On installing Mailman on Mac OSX 10.2(Jaguar), I'm stuck.

The error report via e-mail is:

----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ucet"
    (reason: Service unavailable)
    (expanded from: <ucet-request at xxxxxxx>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
smrsh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable

-------
In the README.SENDMAIL it says:

    % cd /etc/smrsh
    % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper
  (I would do  % ln -s /Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper )

I've looked everywhere I know how to find smrsh in the OSX file system, so I
can add the symbolic link.

Does some wise person know where to find smrsh in OSX (Jaguar)?

Kathy




From sbachand at lcc.gc.ca  Thu Oct  3 21:09:40 2002
From: sbachand at lcc.gc.ca (Stephane Bachand)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:09:40 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question?
Message-ID: <02Oct3.145239edt.119041@gateway.lcc.gc.ca>

I have run into a problem that, when I sent a message with attachments, the
users who had digest messages selected did not receive the attachments. Is
there a way to correct this?
 
Please advise, thank you.
 
Stephane Bachand 
Communications Officer
Law Commission of Canada
sbachand at lcc.gc.ca <mailto:sbachand at lcc.gc.ca> 
www.lcc.gc.ca <http://www.lcc.gc.ca/> 
Tel: 613-946-8973, fax / t?l?c 613-946-8988
473 Albert Street, 11th Floor, Trebla Building, 
Ottawa, Ontario K1A 0H8
473, rue Albert, 11e ?tage, ?difice Trebla
Ottawa, (Ontario) K1A 0H8

	 	
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021003/7ef436b7/attachment.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: law090_e.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 2396 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021003/7ef436b7/attachment.gif 

From slaplist at rockhopper.penguinpalace.com  Thu Oct  3 21:15:08 2002
From: slaplist at rockhopper.penguinpalace.com (Slap's Mailing List Account)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:15:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data
In-Reply-To: <20021003185801.16529.94282.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031207440.27633-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>

Hiya,

I run a discussion list using Mailman 2.1 for a small open-source project.
Recently, there was a security vulnerability discussed on my list and
shortly after it was brought to light, several users of my list were
attacked by a cracker through this security issue. I believe that the
attacker saw the posts on our list (in the public archives or he could
even be subscribed) and used that information to attack our users, and
that he gained their IP addresses through the headers of their posts to
the list.

I have this option enabled: (Hide the sender of a message, replacing it
with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)), but
when the user sends email, it still shows it as originating from their
personal computer. I need a way to protect this information (their IP
address, etc) so that it looks like the messages are just coming from my
Mailman server instead.

Since there are several users on my list who are running my software and
posting to the list from the same server, I need to be able to protect
them - otherwise, we will not be able to safely discuss issues such as
security concerns again.

If anybody can help me with this, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!

Sean B




From kmalecki at ic.net  Thu Oct  3 22:49:22 2002
From: kmalecki at ic.net (Kris Malecki)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:49:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Pipermail archive into Lyris
Message-ID: <021201c26b1e$5a3f1630$e3d4a098@mach.ic.net>

Hi,
I would like to import a Pipermail archive into Lyris List Manager (v. 4.1.2). How to do it? Thanks,
Kris Malecki
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021003/6d1e919f/attachment.htm 

From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct  3 23:06:29 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:06:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems trying to make mailman work
In-Reply-To: <3D9C964C.39235CCD@sri.com>
References: <20021002160006.25991.81427.Mailman@mail.python.org> 
	<3D9C964C.39235CCD@sri.com>
Message-ID: <1033679190.5363.59.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 15:11, Trish Morley wrote:
> I have exactly the same problem as Mariano, with RedHat.  What are the
> "features"?  How do we circumvent them? 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Jon Carnes wrote:
> >Are you installing this on a Linux box?  What Distribution?  Red Hat
> >adds some interesting security "features" to Sendmail that need to be
> >circumvented for Mailman to work properly.
> 
> >Good Luck!

 - smrsh: create link to the wrapper program in /etc/smrsh/..

 - recompile Sendmail to listen on all interfaces or edit
/etc/sendmail.cf and comment out the line specifing  the  port
(Port=smtp,Addr=127.0.0.1)

Jon Carnes




From flavio at gral.com.br  Thu Oct  3 23:29:06 2002
From: flavio at gral.com.br (Flavio)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 18:29:06 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML Titles Subject charset errors
Message-ID: <NGBBKMCJFJOOJIELKIMDIEDPCOAA.flavio@gral.com.br>

Dear List

We receive e-mails with dead keys and keep them in HTML OK, but when we list
the title by subject for example(Web), the subject in site looks like this

[linuxrj]
=?iso-8859-1?Q?Estudos_Ava=E7ados__-_Instalando_o_Red_Hat_Linux_7.3_com_u?=
 =?iso-8859-1?Q?ma_placa_m=E3e_SiS_?=

But the correct is

[linuxrj] Estudos Ava?ados - Instalando o Red Hat Linux 7.3 com uma placa
m?e SiS

with dead keys

We use portguese-BR

Example: http://gral.com.br/pipermail/linuxrj/2002-October/subject.html


Thanks
Fl?vio Brito
Brasil





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct  3 23:36:40 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:36:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data
In-Reply-To: 
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031207440.27633-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>
References: 
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031207440.27633-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>
Message-ID: <1033681000.5359.73.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

There are couple of things you can do.

 - Edit the source of the arching program so that it drops the header
info from messages before archiving them (I did this last year for a
list and it's worked great).

 - Run a script that edits the Mbox file for the list directly and then
re-archive after you run the script.

Note, that folks have the option under the default install to download
the mbox file for the list. If you simply edit the archives, then
someone can still grab all the headers, etc, from the mbox.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
======
On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 15:15, Slap's Mailing List Account wrote:
> Hiya,
> 
> I run a discussion list using Mailman 2.1 for a small open-source project.
> Recently, there was a security vulnerability discussed on my list and
> shortly after it was brought to light, several users of my list were
> attacked by a cracker through this security issue. I believe that the
> attacker saw the posts on our list (in the public archives or he could
> even be subscribed) and used that information to attack our users, and
> that he gained their IP addresses through the headers of their posts to
> the list.
> 
> I have this option enabled: (Hide the sender of a message, replacing it
> with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)), but
> when the user sends email, it still shows it as originating from their
> personal computer. I need a way to protect this information (their IP
> address, etc) so that it looks like the messages are just coming from my
> Mailman server instead.
> 
> Since there are several users on my list who are running my software and
> posting to the list from the same server, I need to be able to protect
> them - otherwise, we will not be able to safely discuss issues such as
> security concerns again.
> 
> If anybody can help me with this, I'd greatly appreciate it.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Sean B
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct  3 23:49:43 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:49:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002175147.023f6758@pop.ucla.edu>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20021002175147.023f6758@pop.ucla.edu>
Message-ID: <1033681786.5359.84.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If I understand what you are asking, then this is no problem... *You
want a list called "Faculty at ucla.edu" that contains individual email
addresses. Then you want to use this email address in other lists.*

This works fine.  The list can be setup as a standard mailing alias or
as a mailman list. If you want to limit use of the email address and you
want to intercept Mailman administration notes for the list, then you
should setup the list as a Mailman list - or front end the list with a
procmail script. Either of these will let you check various properties
of the header and dump email that is inappropriate.

Then when you have faculty that change their email addresses you can
simply change the address in one location.

Another solution to this is use some simple command line scripts to
manage your lists. That would give you one stop-shopping for making
changes to existing lists.

If the above does not help - can you be more specific as to what you
need?  Perhaps provide a small example?

Take care - Jon Carnes
===
On Wed, 2002-10-02 at 20:55, Emy Murakawa wrote:
> I had originally sent an e-mail to Christopher Kolar <ckolar at aurora.edu> as 
> he had written the user help info, but aside from indicating that he had 
> done it (so it must be possible) and that it would require some change in 
> setting, he hasn't responded any further.  Of course, since he's no longer 
> with mailman, I think he did very well to respond to me at all.  I then 
> tried contacting help at python.org, and they suggested I go back to the 
> mailman site and start again.
> 
> Can you help me out with something? CHIS has a listserv. I am familiar with 
> entering new names, correcting them, and un-subscribing them, but here's 
> the problem. I would like to make a couple of sections of the listserv a 
> global sub-list. In other words, using a familiar group, I'd like to have 
> faculty under one mail address that broadcasts to all. I.e., I'd like to be 
> able to pick "Faculty" and be able to limit the group for edits, 
> corrections, updates, etc. (in other words, a group cut-n-paste).
> 
> I don't know what this is technically called, but I've heard it referred to 
> as a global group list and an umbrella subset (the entire listserv is the 
> umbrella, and within the umbrella are several sub-sets). I'd appreciate any 
> insight you might be able to give me!
> 
> Emy
> 
> Response from our IT:
> 
> Sorry Emy, but I haven't heard of anything like that being applicable to 
> the Listserv software that we are using. We are currently using "Mailman" 
> by www.python.org





From brossow at mac.com  Thu Oct  3 23:50:13 2002
From: brossow at mac.com (Brent Rossow)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:50:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
In-Reply-To: <B9C1E727.321F%webb_k@suu.edu>
Message-ID: <B9C225C5.5E78%brossow@mac.com>

Kathleen,

Look here:  /usr/libexec/smrsh

For future reference, you can use the following command to locate files from
the command line:

    find <beginning_directory> -name <filename>

    EX:  find / -name smrsh

OSXFAQ.com has had some good tips on using the find command lately.  :-)

Cheers,
Brent




> From: Kathleen Webb <webb_k at suu.edu>
> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:23:03 -0600
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On installing Mailman on Mac OSX 10.2(Jaguar), I'm stuck.
> 
> The error report via e-mail is:
> 
> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ucet"
>   (reason: Service unavailable)
>   (expanded from: <ucet-request at xxxxxxx>)
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> smrsh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable
> 
> -------
> In the README.SENDMAIL it says:
> 
>   % cd /etc/smrsh
>   % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper
> (I would do  % ln -s /Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper )
> 
> I've looked everywhere I know how to find smrsh in the OSX file system, so I
> can add the symbolic link.
> 
> Does some wise person know where to find smrsh in OSX (Jaguar)?
> 
> Kathy
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct  3 23:53:39 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 17:53:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reg exp in mailman 2.0.13
In-Reply-To: <20021001162129.4FBFD13E95@orion.it.luc.edu>
References: <20021001162129.4FBFD13E95@orion.it.luc.edu>
Message-ID: <1033682019.5363.89.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The best help is to include a footer with each list that points folks to
the web-based list control pages (see for example the one on this
email).

Other than that, you could add "remove" as one of the keywords that
administriva looks for, but that might require a small side-trip to the
source code.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 12:21, Matthew Atwood wrote:
> Hello,
> 
>  We're running mailman 2.0.13 and having lots of problems with people 
> asking to be removed and posting to the list.  Is there a way to look for 
> the word remove in the subject line and hold those posts for administrator 
> approval?
> 
> Thanks,
> Matt
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct  4 00:00:53 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 18:00:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] batch updates to mail lists?
In-Reply-To: <3D98B18B.3030703@softpro.com>
References: <3D98B18B.3030703@softpro.com>
Message-ID: <1033682453.5359.96.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Yes.  I've automated this before at a company that used the database in
a very similar way.  You can dump out the email addresses into a text
file - and only the email addresses - one email address per line. Then
use the Mailman command-line commands to sync up the list with the text
file.

You can get the text file on a Linux box several ways: making direct
ODBC calls to the database, or having the server dump it out to the
Linux box running Samba.

I also scanned the unsubscribe's that came into the list and passed
those back in a text file for the admin to play with.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
===

On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 16:18, Bob Treitman wrote:
> Question: Can list administrators do batch replacements of
> the entire mailing list membership list?
> 
> I'm considering using Mailman to distribute email newsletters
> to an organization whose email addresses are stored in a
> database.  For several reasons, I don't want people (un)subscribing
> from Mailman; instead, I want to make sure that their email
> addresses are disabled in the database, and then the list
> administrator will replace the existing Mailman list with a
> completely new list generated from the database in plain text
> or any other format.
> 
> The reasons:
> 
> 1. As people are removed from the database, I need to make sure
> that their email addresses are removed from the Mailman list.
> 2. I need to minimize the administrative effort, and since we
> need to make the changes in the database, I would rather not
> duplicate the work by editing the Mailman list.
> 
> -- 
> Bob Treitman       bob at softpro.com
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct  4 00:03:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 18:03:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
In-Reply-To: <000001c269b0$a0c598a0$8d835f0f@home.org>
References: <000001c269b0$a0c598a0$8d835f0f@home.org>
Message-ID: <1033682616.5359.100.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Well, if you setup your MTA to allow it, you can run newlist -o and it
will update your /etc/aliases file for you.

Both Postfix and Sendmail allow you to have secondary aliases files that
are editable by users.  The sysadmin can setup one of these that is
editable by the user mailman and then the process is much easier.

Jon Carnes

On Tue, 2002-10-01 at 21:11, Pankaj K Garg wrote:
> No, the newlist command does not update /etc/aliases,
> as you most probably require super user priviledges
> to update /etc/aliases, while you may not require
> super user priviledges to create a new list.
> 
> So, you have to do that manually.
> 
> Pankaj
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> > [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Pontus Falk
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2002 5:34 PM
> > To: mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman on Red Hat 7.3
> > 
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I'm trying to setup Mailman on Red Hat 7.3.
> > 
> > Everythings seems to be OK until I run the newlist command. 
> > Shouldn't that
> > command update the /etc/aliases file? Well, it doesn't...
> > 
> > Any ideas?
> > 
> > /Pontus
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct  4 00:08:28 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 18:08:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help for a new install on Linux
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLIDFMLAEJJBGMCKBEEGICEAA.mark@tildens.org>
References: <NGBBLIDFMLAEJJBGMCKBEEGICEAA.mark@tildens.org>
Message-ID: <1033682908.5359.105.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

1) use a \ in front of the space, or simply telnet to the server and
delete the offending list (~mailman/lists/private/<list name>)

2) configure your MTA (postfix) to accept mail for: gateway.tildens.org
You probably have it set only to "tildens.org".

Jon Carnes
===
On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 13:11, Mark Tilden wrote:
> Ladies & Gents:
> 
> I'm new to this, so please forgive me if these questions are basic:
> 
> I've installed mailman on my linux box and it seems to be for the most part
> working, after some tweaking. I have run into two problems that have me
> stumped, however:
> 
> 1. I created a test list after I installed mailman. Unfortunately, the name
> of the list contains spaces. That appears to cause numerous problems,
> including for some reason a problem with the administration interface cookie
> not working properly. However, the most curious, is that I can't delete the
> list. I've tried running the rmlist script, and it appears to work, but the
> mail list persists. I've tried putting the name in quotes. Any suggestions?
> 
> 2. I created a second test list with no spaces in the name. It works better.
> However, whenever I send mail to the list server, I get a "loop back" bounce
> message from sendmail. Here's the message:
> 
> > This is the Postfix program at host gateway.tildens.org.
> >
> > I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
> > below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.
> >
> > For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>
> >
> > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
> > delete your own text from the message returned below.
> >
> >			The Postfix program
> >
> > <markstestlist at gateway.tildens.org>: mail for gateway.tildens.org loops
> back to myself
> 
> Can someone point me in a direction to fix this? What have I done wrong?
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> Mark
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From raquel at thericehouse.net  Fri Oct  4 01:08:51 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 16:08:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I rename a list?
In-Reply-To: <1033428070.400.21.camel@agaliaretph>
References: <1033428070.400.21.camel@agaliaretph>
Message-ID: <20021003160851.2594a944.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On 01 Oct 2002 01:21:07 +0200
Ander <ander1 at wanadoo.es> wrote:

> Hello,
> I would like to know if the is a way to rename a list.
> 
> Thanks

My suggestion would be "newlist", use "/bin/move_list" and then,
"rmlist" the old list.

--
Raquel
============================================================
Follow the path of the unsafe, independent thinker.  Expose your
ideas to the dangers of controversy.  Speak your mind and fear less
the label of 'crackpot' than the stigma of conformity.  And on
issues that seem important to you, stand up and be counted at any
cost.
  --Thomas J. Watson




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Fri Oct  4 02:43:42 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 17:43:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone please look at these errors?
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com> <20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv> <3D9C19D0.9BE4C4CB@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <3D9CE43E.211409D1@whidbey.com>

I sent this early this morning when I gave up on the upgrade for the day, I'd really like to have someone look at this so I can try again tonight.

Van

"G. Armour Van Horn" wrote:

> I've been running Mailman for most of two years, going from 2.0.5 to 2.0.12+ on a very lightly loaded K6-233. I've finally been convinced to move up. Last night I reved RedHat from 6.2 to 7.2, installed Python2 2.2.1, and generally brought things up to date.
>
> I also added virtual host support to Postfix, as I have a client that wants this on their new list. I am now hosting DNS for their domain, and mail to their domain through the Postfix-style virtual host works.
>
> I decided not to change the Mailman location at this time, so I used the following  config:
>
> ./configure --with-mail-gid=99 --with-cgi-gid=99 --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python2
>
> The configure runs fine right down to the end where it tells me I don't have Chinese Unicode support and sends me off to a location where there aren't any files, but I don't really expect to have a lot of Chinese customers on here. It's the next step that is stopping me:
>
> make install runs smoothly for several minutes, but concludes with this:
>
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "bin/update", line 44, in ?
> >     import paths
> > ImportError: No module named paths
> > make: *** [update] Error 1
> >
>
> The appropriate section in /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3/build/bin/update looks like this:
>
>
> > import paths
> > from Mailman import mm_cfg
> > from Mailman import Utils
> > from Mailman import MailList
> > from Mailman.LockFile import TimeOutError
> > from Mailman.i18n import _
> > from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
> >
>
> I tried commenting them out one at a time, but each time I just had to comment out the next one. I blew away everything in the /home/mailman directory except the lists, logs, and archives and got the same result. Just to be thorough, I cleaned everything out, blew away the /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3 directory, extracted the install files again, and there was no change. I even downloaded another copy of the tarball.
>
> So what am I missing?
>
> Van
>
>

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct  4 03:26:51 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 03 Oct 2002 21:26:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone please look at these errors?
In-Reply-To: <3D9CE43E.211409D1@whidbey.com>
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
	<20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv> <3D9C19D0.9BE4C4CB@whidbey.com> 
	<3D9CE43E.211409D1@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <1033694812.1634.8.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Sounds like its having problems trying to upgrade. Try moving
/home/mailman to another place then recreate the directory empty (and
reset the rights (owner=mailman, group=mailman).

Now try installing into the empty directory.

Jon Carnes

On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 20:43, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> I sent this early this morning when I gave up on the upgrade for the day, I'd really like to have someone look at this so I can try again tonight.
> 
> Van
> 
> "G. Armour Van Horn" wrote:
> 
> > I've been running Mailman for most of two years, going from 2.0.5 to 2.0.12+ on a very lightly loaded K6-233. I've finally been convinced to move up. Last night I reved RedHat from 6.2 to 7.2, installed Python2 2.2.1, and generally brought things up to date.
> >
> > I also added virtual host support to Postfix, as I have a client that wants this on their new list. I am now hosting DNS for their domain, and mail to their domain through the Postfix-style virtual host works.
> >
> > I decided not to change the Mailman location at this time, so I used the following  config:
> >
> > ./configure --with-mail-gid=99 --with-cgi-gid=99 --prefix=/home/mailman --with-python=/usr/bin/python2
> >
> > The configure runs fine right down to the end where it tells me I don't have Chinese Unicode support and sends me off to a location where there aren't any files, but I don't really expect to have a lot of Chinese customers on here. It's the next step that is stopping me:
> >
> > make install runs smoothly for several minutes, but concludes with this:
> >
> > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> > > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "bin/update", line 44, in ?
> > >     import paths
> > > ImportError: No module named paths
> > > make: *** [update] Error 1
> > >
> >
> > The appropriate section in /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3/build/bin/update looks like this:
> >
> >
> > > import paths
> > > from Mailman import mm_cfg
> > > from Mailman import Utils
> > > from Mailman import MailList
> > > from Mailman.LockFile import TimeOutError
> > > from Mailman.i18n import _
> > > from Mailman.Queue.Switchboard import Switchboard
> > >
> >
> > I tried commenting them out one at a time, but each time I just had to comment out the next one. I blew away everything in the /home/mailman directory except the lists, logs, and archives and got the same result. Just to be thorough, I cleaned everything out, blew away the /usr/src/mailman-2.1b3 directory, extracted the install files again, and there was no change. I even downloaded another copy of the tarball.
> >
> > So what am I missing?
> >
> > Van
> >
> >
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
> on a theme delivered every morning.
> Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
> mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD
> 
> For web hosting and maintenance,
> visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Oct  4 09:51:40 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:51:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Stephane Bachand <sbachand@lcc.gc.ca> 
   of "Thu, 03 Oct 2002 15:09:40 EDT." <02Oct3.145239edt.119041@gateway.lcc.gc.ca> 
References: <02Oct3.145239edt.119041@gateway.lcc.gc.ca> 
Message-ID: <9421.1033717900@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:09:40 -0400 
Stephane Bachand <sbachand at lcc.gc.ca> wrote:

> I have run into a problem that, when I sent a message with
> attachments, the users who had digest messages selected did not
> receive the attachments. Is there a way to correct this?
 
MIME digests.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Oct  4 09:52:53 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:52:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Slap's Mailing List Account" <slaplist@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com> 
   of "Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:15:08 PDT." <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031207440.27633-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031207440.27633-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com> 
Message-ID: <9453.1033717973@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 12:15:08 -0700 (PDT) 

> Since there are several users on my list who are running my software
> and posting to the list from the same server, I need to be able to
> protect them - otherwise, we will not be able to safely discuss issues
> such as security concerns again.

Pipe the list messages thru a procmail filter which uses formail to
remove all Received: headers prior to passing the message on to Mailman.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Oct  4 09:55:22 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 00:55:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] International headers. 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Dmitri Gofmekler" <dmitri@arvid.ee> 
   of "Thu, 03 Oct 2002 11:21:33 +0300." <001e01c26ab5$e3c35790$1a1eb4d5@lazer> 
References: <001e01c26ab5$e3c35790$1a1eb4d5@lazer> 
Message-ID: <9506.1033718122@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 3 Oct 2002 11:21:33 +0300 
Dmitri Gofmekler <dmitri at arvid.ee> wrote:

> Hello Dear Mailman Users and authors, I have a small problem with an
> archived messages with international headers. Is it possible to see
> normal (decoded) subject instead this one:
> =?koi8-r?B?8MXS18HRINfF0tPJ0SDMydPUwSDHz9TP18Eu?=

Use a fully MIME aware archiver ala MHonARc.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From wash at wananchi.com  Fri Oct  4 11:05:15 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:05:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delivery failures for posts
Message-ID: <20021004090515.GJ37634@ns2.wananchi.com>

Does anyone have an idea what would cause these errore:


Aug 27 16:25:14 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:14 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:15 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:15 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:16 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:17 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later
Aug 27 16:25:17 2002 (13774) delivery to wash at wananchi.com failed with code 451: Temporary local problem - please try later


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct  4 13:02:49 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 04 Oct 2002 07:02:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone please look at these errors?
In-Reply-To: <3D9CFD29.41D95443@whidbey.com>
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
	<20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv> <3D9C19D0.9BE4C4CB@whidbey.com> 
	<3D9CE43E.211409D1@whidbey.com> <1033694812.1634.8.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
	 <3D9CFD29.41D95443@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <1033729370.1633.11.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Thu, 2002-10-03 at 22:30, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> What about all my current lists and archives? Can I just move them back in after the upgrade and expect it to work? Or do I then have to rerun the update scripts once they're back there? (Like genaliases and arch?)
> 
> Van
> 

Lets not put the cart before the horse. Right now you simply need to
figure out where the problem is. If this works, then the problem is in
the UPgrade routines.  At that point you can move your list data back
into place and try again and see if it upgrades everything.

If not, you may need to extract your list info and recreate the lists,
if you only have about 20 that's not a big deal - if you have hundreds
then it gets tough.

If the install doesn't work with a blank install directory, then the
problem is a missing or mis-configured component on your system.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes




From jsekel at brocku.ca  Fri Oct  4 17:55:54 2002
From: jsekel at brocku.ca (Josh Sekel)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 11:55:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!!!
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021004115300.021f0768@eagle.bus.brocku.ca>

Hello everyone,  I am a total newbie and need some help.  I can't get 
newlist to work.  I have inherited this system and don't know what is 
wrong.  There are many lists up and running right now but I need to put 
more up.  The error I get is command not found.  The manuals just say to 
run newlist, what am I doing wrong?

Thank you,


Josh Sekel
IT Consultant
Faculty of Business
Brock University
500 Glenridge Ave.
St. Catharines, ON
L2S-3A1
T: (905) 688-5550 x:4691
F: (905) 688-9779
jsekel at brocku.ca




From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Fri Oct  4 17:45:19 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:45:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!!!
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021004115300.021f0768@eagle.bus.brocku.ca>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021004115300.021f0768@eagle.bus.brocku.ca>
Message-ID: <200210041645.19094.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

try

/themailmandir/bin/newlist


On Friday 04 Oct 2002 4:55 pm, Josh Sekel wrote:
> Hello everyone,  I am a total newbie and need some help.  I can't get
> newlist to work.  I have inherited this system and don't know what is
> wrong.  There are many lists up and running right now but I need to put
> more up.  The error I get is command not found.  The manuals just say to
> run newlist, what am I doing wrong?
>
> Thank you,
>
>
> Josh Sekel
> IT Consultant
> Faculty of Business
> Brock University
> 500 Glenridge Ave.
> St. Catharines, ON
> L2S-3A1
> T: (905) 688-5550 x:4691
> F: (905) 688-9779
> jsekel at brocku.ca
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jchum at aismedia.com  Fri Oct  4 18:06:29 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 12:06:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending email to the list
Message-ID: <010901c26bc0$009087c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

I've just got started with Mailman, and reviewing the list and admnistrator
documentation. I could not find anywhere how'd I send a HTML or plain text
to the list. I logged in as the list administrator and it provide options to
configure the list, unless I missed an option to send an email. Where would
I find where I need to fill and email this newsletter out to the subscribers
on the list? And, is there an options I have to do in order to send HTML
newsletters?


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Fri Oct  4 18:12:58 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:12:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending email to the list
In-Reply-To: <010901c26bc0$009087c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
References: <010901c26bc0$009087c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <200210041712.58824.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

Subscribe your self to the list and send the email using your email software

John

On Friday 04 Oct 2002 5:06 pm, Jonathan Chum wrote:
> I've just got started with Mailman, and reviewing the list and admnistrator
> documentation. I could not find anywhere how'd I send a HTML or plain text
> to the list. I logged in as the list administrator and it provide options
> to configure the list, unless I missed an option to send an email. Where
> would I find where I need to fill and email this newsletter out to the
> subscribers on the list? And, is there an options I have to do in order to
> send HTML newsletters?
>
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Chum
> Systems Developer
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
> "We Build eBusinesses"
> 115 Perimeter Center Terrace
> Suite 540
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
> http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From mlitzler at tisztanet.hu  Fri Oct  4 19:35:30 2002
From: mlitzler at tisztanet.hu (Litzler =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mih=E1ly?=)
Date: 04 Oct 2002 19:35:30 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customize verify.txt and so on
Message-ID: <1033752931.11955.82.camel@almasretes>

Hi!

I'm using Woody's mailman.

Is it possible, to have an own verify.txt for each lists?

Thanks!

Mike







From dave at allpar.com  Fri Oct  4 22:28:21 2002
From: dave at allpar.com (Dr. David A. Zatz)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:28:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List settings not updated?
Message-ID: <p05111b0eb9c3aa00f800@[192.168.0.12]>

Some of my list settings aren't being updated (I just set up three new
lists). On one, where only one person was supposed to be able to post, it
seems anyone can. On all of them, the list name isn't being put in front of
the subject, and the reply-to is always to the individual rather than to he
list. I set these things a few times now using the Web interface. Help?



From Jeremy at lr3.com  Fri Oct  4 22:35:15 2002
From: Jeremy at lr3.com (Jeremy Summers)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 16:35:15 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List settings not updated?
Message-ID: <6720F68918F6D411949B00B0D011BD20459024@mail.mail.lr3_corp.com>

Do you get any errors when you make the changes via the web interface?  Have
you checked the error logs?

Jeremy Summers

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. David A. Zatz [mailto:dave at allpar.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 4:28 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List settings not updated?


Some of my list settings aren't being updated (I just set up three new
lists). On one, where only one person was supposed to be able to post, it
seems anyone can. On all of them, the list name isn't being put in front of
the subject, and the reply-to is always to the individual rather than to he
list. I set these things a few times now using the Web interface. Help?

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct  5 01:21:07 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 04 Oct 2002 19:21:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customize verify.txt and so on
In-Reply-To: <1033752931.11955.82.camel@almasretes>
References: <1033752931.11955.82.camel@almasretes>
Message-ID: <1033773667.1637.89.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Only if you can modify the source code, but if you can then this is a
pretty easy mod.

Jon Carnes
===
On Fri, 2002-10-04 at 13:35, Litzler Mih?ly wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm using Woody's mailman.
> 
> Is it possible, to have an own verify.txt for each lists?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sat Oct  5 04:49:19 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2002 22:49:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Greetings! :) New mailman user here.
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021004224330.044ef908@mail.wingfoot.org>

I have to say I really like this software--it was much easier to get 
installed and running than Majordomo was...

I have a few questions, which I hope haven't already been answered (I've 
searched the web, archives, etc)...

1)      Will a soon-to-be-released version of Mailman support attachment 
stripping?

2)      Is there work going on to extend Mailman to have files areas and 
such (similar to Yahoo Groups functionality)?

If these projects are happening, I'd like to see if there's anything I can 
do to help... write docs, be a second-pair-of-eyes over code (I'm a mere 
fledgling when it comes to coding..), whatever I can do.. :)

Thanks !
Glenn


---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From guido at sohne.net  Sat Oct  5 21:10:37 2002
From: guido at sohne.net (Guido Sohne)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 19:10:37 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives not being created (qmail + stable mailman release)
Message-ID: <20021005191037.GB20487@sohne.net>

I've installed Mailman as per the INSTALL and README.QMAIL
documentation. It works fine except for one thing, the list
archives are not being generated ... I've taken a look at
the mbox directories and they are indeed empty and devoid
of any life.

My Mailman configuration details are as follows:-

.qmail:
&me at myhostname.net

.qmail-owner:
&me at myhostname.net

.qmail-default:
|/usr/bin/python /home/mailman/scripts/qmail-to-mailman.py

Qmail is configured as follows:

lists.myhostname.net is in rcpthosts and virtualdomains

.qmail-mylistname contains the text
&mailman

In virtualdomains, mail for lists.myhostname.net is 
handled by the mailman user ...

I don't know enough about mailman to know how the
email archives are generated so I do not know if 
the absence of a .maildir is the issue ...
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021005/cc768524/attachment.pgp 

From dave at allpar.com  Sat Oct  5 22:31:13 2002
From: dave at allpar.com (Dr. David A. Zatz)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 16:31:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Odd problem
In-Reply-To: <20021005160006.13695.87520.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021005160006.13695.87520.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <p05111b00b9c4fc5f2b37@[192.168.0.12]>

Let me clarify my problem. When I edit my preferneces, now I was able to
get them to actually change - but they don't seem to affect actual list
behavior. The [ListName] is not sent, and mail always goes back to the
poster, notto the list. Can anyone illuminate me?



From kremels at kreme.com  Sat Oct  5 22:32:33 2002
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:32:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
In-Reply-To: <B9C225C5.5E78%brossow@mac.com>
Message-ID: <93AE3F84-D8A1-11D6-A02D-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com>

On Thursday, Oct 3, 2002, at 15:50 Canada/Mountain, Brent Rossow wrote:
> Kathleen,
>
> Look here:  /usr/libexec/smrsh
>
> For future reference, you can use the following command to locate 
> files from
> the command line:
>
>     find <beginning_directory> -name <filename>

Only do this if `locate <filename>` fails.

>     EX:  find / -name smrsh

% locate smrsh

(I changed my locate to update daily instead of weekly)

-- 
Dimp (dimp), n.:  A person who insults you in a cheap department store 
by asking, "Do you work here?"  -- Rich Hall, "Sniglets"




From kremels at kreme.com  Sat Oct  5 22:38:56 2002
From: kremels at kreme.com (LuKreme)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 14:38:56 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Greetings! :) New mailman user here.
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021004224330.044ef908@mail.wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <77E1AA52-D8A2-11D6-A02D-003065AB9B0E@kreme.com>

On Friday, Oct 4, 2002, at 20:49 Canada/Mountain, Glenn Sieb wrote:
> 1)      Will a soon-to-be-released version of Mailman support 
> attachment stripping?

The current version supports this (2.1b3)

> 2)      Is there work going on to extend Mailman to have files areas 
> and such (similar to Yahoo Groups functionality)?

erm... I doubt it.  There are other ways to do this.




From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sun Oct  6 00:45:41 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 15:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 changing existing domain
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210051308320.62460-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210051308320.62460-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <20021005154541.4000c641.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Sat, 5 Oct 2002 13:24:58 -0400 (EDT)
Fuzzy <fuzzy at pooh.ASARian.org> wrote:

> 
> application     version
> -----------     -------
> mailman		2.1b3
> python 		2.2.1
> apache 		1.3.23
> sendmail	8.11.6
> 
> 
> I have some lists that migated to a virtual domain,
> (both Apache and Sendmail, virtual name based domains).
> 
> I changed the "host name this list prefers email" to
> the virtual domain, and modified the virtusers table
> to route incoming mail to the the mailman aliases.
> 
> Mailman now uses the correct virtual domain in email,
> and for mailto: URLs, but still uses the original
> domain in http:// URLs (the RFC2369 headers and the
> footer that MM adds to the post).
> 
> How do I convince MM to use to use the correct
> virtual domains?
> 
> I can get to both the admin and the listinfo
> pages using either domain (the "real" or the
> "virtual"). While I was logged in to the
> listinfo pages, I asked MM to tell me what
> mailing lists I was in, (it listed the ones
> in the virtual domain only). MM seems to
> know what address  is on which list at what
> domain. I guess I missed a setting someplace?
> 

You need to take care of this in mm_cfg, using "add_virtualhost()". 
The syntax can be found in Defaults.py.  Once your virtual hosts are
added there, it will work properly.

--
Raquel
============================================================
We must learn to live together as brothers or perish together as
fools.
  --Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.




From brossow at cesa12.k12.wi.us  Thu Oct  3 23:48:51 2002
From: brossow at cesa12.k12.wi.us (Brent Rossow)
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 16:48:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
In-Reply-To: <B9C1E727.321F%webb_k@suu.edu>
Message-ID: <B9C22573.5E74%brossow@cesa12.k12.wi.us>

Kathleen,

Look here:  /usr/libexec/smrsh

For future reference, you can use the following command to locate files from
the command line:

    find <beginning_directory> -name <filename>

    EX:  find / -name smrsh

OSXFAQ.com has had some good tips on using the find command lately.  :-)

Cheers,
Brent

___________________________________________
Brent E. Rossow
Educational Technology Specialist
Cooperative Educational Service Agency #12
Ashland, WI 54806
(715) 682-2363 x136 (voice)
(715) 682-7244 (fax)

"I'm off to crash the server.  Wish me luck!"
  -- CDW advertisement



> From: Kathleen Webb <webb_k at suu.edu>
> Date: Thu, 03 Oct 2002 12:23:03 -0600
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] OSX Jaguar smrsh - can't find that
> 
> Hi,
> 
> On installing Mailman on Mac OSX 10.2(Jaguar), I'm stuck.
> 
> The error report via e-mail is:
> 
> ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ucet"
>   (reason: Service unavailable)
>   (expanded from: <ucet-request at xxxxxxx>)
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> smrsh: wrapper not available for sendmail programs
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable
> 
> -------
> In the README.SENDMAIL it says:
> 
>   % cd /etc/smrsh
>   % ln -s /home/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper
> (I would do  % ln -s /Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper )
> 
> I've looked everywhere I know how to find smrsh in the OSX file system, so I
> can add the symbolic link.
> 
> Does some wise person know where to find smrsh in OSX (Jaguar)?
> 
> Kathy
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From slaplist at rockhopper.penguinpalace.com  Fri Oct  4 00:40:38 2002
From: slaplist at rockhopper.penguinpalace.com (Slap's Mailing List Account)
Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2002 15:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data
In-Reply-To: <20021003215013.24508.37016.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031538230.27666-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>

Jon,

I may implement that for a temporary solution, but it does not take away
the full problem because anybody could be subscribed to the mailing list
(which isn't very high traffic anyhow) and see the IP addresses in the
message headers. Ideally I'd like to be able to protect my users from
being seen in the email headers at all. Is there any way to do this? Will
I have to do something with sendmail to make this happen?

Thanks
Sean





From vibert at cis.fr  Fri Oct  4 10:22:53 2002
From: vibert at cis.fr (vibert at cis.fr)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 10:22:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask information
Message-ID: <OF63A7C1EE.59364124-ONC1256C48.002D8617-C1256C48.002DCE28@LocalDomain>

Hello,

I don't know mailman or exhange 2000. But a  customer want use mailman on 
linux with exhange 2000.
Could you tell me if you are agree with this configuration ? (Even a 
solution with sendmail or other is better. )And give me some leads about 
this architecture ?

Thanks,


CIS - Patrick VIBERT - I.T.C
T?l :  02.51.85.28.74
         06.84.80.97.80
Fax : 02.40.30.19.28
Mail : vibert at cis.fr

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021004/7d7da414/attachment.htm 

From director at conticonti.com  Fri Oct  4 14:59:04 2002
From: director at conticonti.com (director at conticonti.com)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 06:59:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options
Message-ID: <FCENKGOEEHIFOPEFIIKMCEBECDAA.director@conticonti.com>

Periodically I want to be able to blast announcements to my entire list, but
other times I want to just compile a digest for list members. I am unsure
what settings I use to achieve these goals.  Any help would be appreciated.

----------------------------------------------
Michael M. Conti




From erik.myllymaki at starpointe.ca  Sat Oct  5 02:02:53 2002
From: erik.myllymaki at starpointe.ca (Erik Myllymaki)
Date: Fri, 4 Oct 2002 17:02:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman.2.1b3 - bounces going to moderators?
Message-ID: <02eb01c26c02$8d5d6dc0$f621a8c0@topdown>

Is this correct behaviour?

I thought the bounces that get past the auto bounce detection woulod only go
to the list owner, but they seem to be going to all the moderators too...




From ges at wingfoot.org  Sun Oct  6 01:03:24 2002
From: ges at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:03:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Greetings! :) New mailman user here.
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021005190315.01991160@mail.wingfoot.org>

At 02:38 PM 10/5/2002 -0600, LuKreme posted the following...
>On Friday, Oct 4, 2002, at 20:49 Canada/Mountain, Glenn Sieb wrote:
>>1)      Will a soon-to-be-released version of Mailman support attachment 
>>stripping?
>
>The current version supports this (2.1b3)

Cool--thanks.. :)

>>2)      Is there work going on to extend Mailman to have files areas and 
>>such (similar to Yahoo Groups functionality)?
>
>erm... I doubt it.  There are other ways to do this.

Hmm.. can you point me in the right direction? Most importantly I'm 
interested in the Files section.. I believe I can recreate the "database" 
and "links" sections via editing the HTML of the list page...

Thanks :)
Glenn


---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sun Oct  6 01:24:47 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 19:24:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Greetings! :) New mailman user here.
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021005192440.01907c50@mail.wingfoot.org>

At 02:38 PM 10/5/2002 -0600, LuKreme posted the following...
>On Friday, Oct 4, 2002, at 20:49 Canada/Mountain, Glenn Sieb wrote:
>>1)      Will a soon-to-be-released version of Mailman support attachment 
>>stripping?
>
>The current version supports this (2.1b3)

Cool--thanks.. :)

>>2)      Is there work going on to extend Mailman to have files areas and 
>>such (similar to Yahoo Groups functionality)?
>
>erm... I doubt it.  There are other ways to do this.

Hmm.. can you point me in the right direction? Most importantly I'm 
interested in the Files section.. I believe I can recreate the "database" 
and "links" sections via editing the HTML of the list page...

Thanks :)
Glenn


---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct  6 04:13:01 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:13:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210031538230.27666-100000@rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>
Message-ID: <002001c26cdd$e6ac02c0$1501a8c0@anncons2>

One of the other frequent posters to the list had an excellent suggestion -
Front end the mailing list with a procmail script to remove most of the
headers.  Just leave the headers that you need, remove the ones you don't
like.

If you need help with procmail recipes for doing this, then check the
archives of this list or "man procmailex".

Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Slap's Mailing List Account" <slaplist at rockhopper.penguinpalace.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2002 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Protecting user data


> Jon,
>
> I may implement that for a temporary solution, but it does not take away
> the full problem because anybody could be subscribed to the mailing list
> (which isn't very high traffic anyhow) and see the IP addresses in the
> message headers. Ideally I'd like to be able to protect my users from
> being seen in the email headers at all. Is there any way to do this? Will
> I have to do something with sendmail to make this happen?
>
> Thanks
> Sean
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct  6 04:23:17 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:23:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Greetings! :) New mailman user here.
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021005190315.01991160@mail.wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <002e01c26cdf$5546b800$1501a8c0@anncons2>

Not familiar with YaHoo's file section, but I'm sure that you duplicate it
simply by using Apache.  If you need to limit access to certain pages/files
to only group members then you can use one of the FAQ entries to generate a
.htaccess list from the Mailman list (using the email addresses and the
mailman password for each user).

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glenn Sieb" <ges at wingfoot.org>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Re: Greetings! :) New mailman user here.


> At 02:38 PM 10/5/2002 -0600, LuKreme posted the following...
> >On Friday, Oct 4, 2002, at 20:49 Canada/Mountain, Glenn Sieb wrote:
> >>1)      Will a soon-to-be-released version of Mailman support attachment
> >>stripping?
> >
> >The current version supports this (2.1b3)
>
> Cool--thanks.. :)
>
> >>2)      Is there work going on to extend Mailman to have files areas and
> >>such (similar to Yahoo Groups functionality)?
> >
> >erm... I doubt it.  There are other ways to do this.
>
> Hmm.. can you point me in the right direction? Most importantly I'm
> interested in the Files section.. I believe I can recreate the "database"
> and "links" sections via editing the HTML of the list page...
>
> Thanks :)
> Glenn
>
>
> ---
> The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
> (c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
> "Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is
right.
> Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
> they are told." -- unattributed
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct  6 04:46:24 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 21:46:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options
References: <FCENKGOEEHIFOPEFIIKMCEBECDAA.director@conticonti.com>
Message-ID: <003601c26ce2$8fb7eec0$1501a8c0@anncons2>

Set the list up as Digest only, then run a parallel list that you can simply
blast to.  You can use the command-line commands to keep the lists in sync
with each other.

You can also use the command-line tools to simply dump out a text file with
all the email addresses and then send you blast directly using the emails in
that file.

I think the Beta has a feature that works for doing this.  Alas the current
production does not.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: <director at conticonti.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 7:59 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options


> Periodically I want to be able to blast announcements to my entire list,
but
> other times I want to just compile a digest for list members. I am unsure
> what settings I use to achieve these goals.  Any help would be
appreciated.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Michael M. Conti
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sun Oct  6 03:58:54 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2002 21:58:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Beta 2.1b3 permission problem...
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021005215350.0250f498@mail.wingfoot.org>

I'm not sure if this is the right list... but I just got 2.1b3 (LOVE the 
mime-filter!) installed on my system, and was getting the GID problems, and 
went through (by the by, the GID/UID was set right...) and ran check_perms, 
etc... finally saw that mailman was:

-rwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman  1739 Oct  5 20:29 mailman

It needs to be:

-rwxr-sr-x  1 root  mailman  1739 Oct  5 20:29 mailman

If this was a blame-me oops, I apologize in advance.. but I figured that 
check_perms would check to make sure that $prefix/scripts/mailman is 02755.

Anywho.. thanks again for this product.. you guys rock :)

Glenn

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct  6 05:15:28 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 22:15:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask information
References: <OF63A7C1EE.59364124-ONC1256C48.002D8617-C1256C48.002DCE28@LocalDomain>
Message-ID: <004801c26ce6$9fd66120$1501a8c0@anncons2>

Run Sendmail or Postfix locally on the linux box.  You'll need a local mail transport.

You can setup the MTA (Sendmail or Postfix) to use the Exchange server as a Smart relay, or you can simply have it send the messages out directly.

When you setup the lists, you setup forwards from the Exchange server for each list you setup in Mailman, or you can qualify the lists by using the host name such as:
   sales at mailman.domain.com
   prod_mark at mailman.domain.com
   support at mailman.domain.com

These will be different from your exchange lists which would be:
  sales at domain.com
  prod_mark at mailman.com
  support at domain.com

===

Exchange has similar functionality to Mailman.  In Exchange, the sysadmin can setup lists and then give ownership of those lists to various users.  The owners can modify and manipulate the lists.  They can also setup who can/cannot post to the lists.

I've setup Mailman to run alongside Exchange at a few clients. Mailman doesn't really give them much more than Exchange. 

Jon Carnes
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: vibert at cis.fr 
  To: mailman-users at python.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 3:22 AM
  Subject: [Mailman-Users] Ask information



  Hello, 

  I don't know mailman or exhange 2000. But a  customer want use mailman on linux with exhange 2000. 
  Could you tell me if you are agree with this configuration ? (Even a solution with sendmail or other is better. )And give me some leads about this architecture ? 

  Thanks, 


  CIS - Patrick VIBERT - I.T.C
  T?l :  02.51.85.28.74
          06.84.80.97.80
  Fax : 02.40.30.19.28
  Mail : vibert at cis.fr

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021005/dc9c8493/attachment.html 

From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct  6 05:57:16 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 05 Oct 2002 23:57:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options
In-Reply-To: <FCENKGOEEHIFOPEFIIKMMEBLCDAA.director@conticonti.com>
References: <FCENKGOEEHIFOPEFIIKMMEBLCDAA.director@conticonti.com>
Message-ID: <1033876637.1633.6.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Sat, 2002-10-05 at 22:51, director at conticonti.com wrote:
> Jon,
> 
> Can you give me examples of the command-line commands to keep the lists in
> sync or direct me to where I can find that information.

~mailman/bin/list_members <listname> - will dump out the email addresses
of a list

~mailman/bin/sync_members - can be used to sync the membership up with a
text file of email addresses. 

> 
> Also when you say a parallel list, I am assuming that I establish another
> mailing list which is just used for blasting. Is there no way to turn on and
> off this feature within mailman?

You can modify the trigger values for the digest blast and then send
your message.  You are forcing your folks to use digest mode when they
subscribe to the list (or are subscribed to the list by you) - thus they
will only get a digest from the list.

For the message to go immediately, it either has to go out as a digest
(with adjusted trigger so it happens right away), or you have to send
the message out via another list (or directly).
> 
> Good Luck - Jon Carnes





From director at conticonti.com  Sun Oct  6 04:51:06 2002
From: director at conticonti.com (director at conticonti.com)
Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2002 20:51:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options
In-Reply-To: <003601c26ce2$8fb7eec0$1501a8c0@anncons2>
Message-ID: <FCENKGOEEHIFOPEFIIKMMEBLCDAA.director@conticonti.com>

Jon,

Can you give me examples of the command-line commands to keep the lists in
sync or direct me to where I can find that information.

Also when you say a parallel list, I am assuming that I establish another
mailing list which is just used for blasting. Is there no way to turn on and
off this feature within mailman?

Thanks.
mc

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Carnes [mailto:jonc at nc.rr.com]
Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2002 8:46 PM
To: director at conticonti.com; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options


Set the list up as Digest only, then run a parallel list that you can simply
blast to.  You can use the command-line commands to keep the lists in sync
with each other.

You can also use the command-line tools to simply dump out a text file with
all the email addresses and then send you blast directly using the emails in
that file.

I think the Beta has a feature that works for doing this.  Alas the current
production does not.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: <director at conticonti.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 7:59 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Announcement\ Digest options


> Periodically I want to be able to blast announcements to my entire list,
but
> other times I want to just compile a digest for list members. I am unsure
> what settings I use to achieve these goals.  Any help would be
appreciated.
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> Michael M. Conti
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/







From webb_k at suu.edu  Sun Oct  6 08:10:10 2002
From: webb_k at suu.edu (Kathleen Webb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 00:10:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mac OSX Jaguar Mailman/Sendmail - complete installation steps
Message-ID: <B9C52FE2.3337%webb_k@suu.edu>

** Successful Jaguar (Mac OSX 10.2) installation steps for Mailman/Sendmail
**

I followed the instructions in the INSTALL file included with the Mailman
source. Because I am not an expert, I made several wrong turns. I kept a log
of the things I did as I went through the whole process.

I've cleaned up the steps I took and provide them here. I am NOT good at
UNIX, so some of the steps may actually not be in the absolutely correct
order, and some of the steps may even not be necessary. Feel free to comment
on mistakes I may have made, or decisions that may cause problems.

I have Mailman running now on my Macintosh laptop with  OS X 10.2 - Jaguar.
Others' mileage may vary.

========================================
Step 1) Collect all the things you need. (I include this step because most
Macintosh users will not have done any UNIX style installations.)

a) You need to use a text editor like BBEdit Lite.
    http://www.barebones.com/

b) You need to download and decompress the Mailman software. (The
installation instructions are in step 4.) Download the software from:
    http://www.list.org/

c) You need Stuffit Expander to uncompress BBEdit Lite and Mailman. Your
Macintosh probably already has Stuffit Expander installed.
    http://www.aladdinsys.com/

d) You need to use the Terminal program on your OS X 10.2 computer. You'll
find in it the Utilities folder inside the Applications folder. You may want
to drag the Terminal icon to the dock for easy access.

e) You need to know how to change privileges with Jaguar. (To change a file
or folder's owner and/or group, click once on its icon, the choose File -->
Show Info [command-I]. In the info box is the ability to look at the owner
and group. To change it, you click on the lock. A dialog box comes up with
your user name. Assuming you are an administrator on your machine - and thus
in the admin group, put in your password to unlock the ability to change a
file's ownership attributes.)

f) Python 2.2 comes pre-installed on your computer. It is already
functioning and ready for use by Mailman. (To verify you have Python, open
the Terminal application. at the  % prompt, type:
    sudo Python -V
and then hit the enter/return key. You'll be prompted for your password.
When you enter it, the terminal will respond with the Python version.

g) Apache web server software comes pre-installed on your computer and has
already been configured and is running.

h) Sendmail is already installed on your computer but is not running,
doesn't have a folder smrsh needs and doesn't have an alias file.
(Instructions are in step 2 and step 6.)

i) You need to know how to get into hidden subdirectories. In the Finder,
use the Go menu and choose Go to Folder. Type in the path to the hidden
folder you need to open.

j) You need to know how to make a new user. You use the System Preferences
application [from the Apple menu]. Use the Accounts panel in the System
section.

k) You need to know how to run the Net Info Manager application. [It is in
the Utilities folder in the Applications folder.] You use this to create
groups.

l) You need to install the Developer Tools that came with your Jaguar disks
or several of the steps won't work (the Terminal command that begins with
m4).

========================================
Step 2) Get Sendmail running

a) From the Finder, use the Go menu and choose Go to Folder and type in:
    /etc

b) Click once on the hostconfig icon and use the File menu to Show Info
[command-I]. Click on the lock to unlock the privileges. Change the owner to
yourself with read and write privileges. Close the Info window.

c) Use BBEdit to open hostconfig. Look down the file until you see the line
about the Mailserver. Change it to read:
          MAILSERVER=-YES-

d) Save the changes and close the hostconfig file.

e) With the hostconfig icon still selected, use the File menu to Show Info
[command-I]. Change the owner back to System. Close the Info window.

f) Either reboot your computer or open the Terminal application. At the %
prompt, type:
    sudo nohup /System/Library/StartupItems/Sendmail &
Hit return/enter. Terminal will ask for your password. Put it in and hit
return/enter.

g) In the terminal application type:
    sudo cp /usr/share/sendmail/conf/cf/generic-darwin.mc
/etc/mail/config.mc

h) From the finder, use the Go menu and Go to Folder. Type in:
    /etc/mail

i) Select the config.mc icon and change its owner to you. (Use Show Info
from the Finder's File menu.)

j) use BBEdit to open config.mc.

k) Scroll down to find the
    undefine(`ALIAS_FILE')
line. Remove that line. Add in these 3 lines:
     define(`ALIAS_FILE', `/etc/mail/aliases')
     define(`confDONT_BLAME_SENDMAIL', `GroupWritableDirPathSafe')
     define(`LUSER_RELAY', `local:webb_k')
(except replace the webb_k with your username)
Save the file and close it.

l) Open BBEdit and create a new file that contains this text. [replace the 2
places where it says webb_k at xx.xxx with your own e-mail address:
########################
#  Aliases in this file will NOT be expanded in the header from
#  Mail, but WILL be visible over networks.
#       >>>>>>>>>>      The program "newaliases" must be run after
#       >> NOTE >>      this file is updated for any changes to
#       >>>>>>>>>>      show through to sendmail.
# See also RFC 2142, `MAILBOX NAMES FOR COMMON SERVICES, ROLES
# AND FUNCTIONS', May 1997
# Pretty much everything else in this file points to "root", so
# you would do well in either reading roots mailbox or forwarding
# roots email from here.

root:   webb_k at xx.xxx

# Basic system aliases -- these MUST be present
MAILER-DAEMON: postmaster
postmaster: root

# General redirections for pseudo accounts
bin:    root
daemon: root
man:    root
news:   root
nobody: root
operator: root
pop:    root
usenet: news
xten:   root

# NETWORK OPERATIONS MAILBOX NAMES
abuse:          root
noc:            root
security:       root

# SUPPORT MAILBOX NAMES FOR SPECIFIC INTERNET SERVICES
ftp:            root
ftp-bugs:       ftp
hostmaster:     root
webmaster:      root
www:            webmaster

mailman:    webb_k at xx.xx
mailman-owner:    mailman

########################

Save the file on your desktop and name it:
    aliases

m) In this part you'll copy the aliases file from your desktop to /etc/mail
Open the Terminal application. At the % prompt type:
    sudo cp
Make sure you type a space after the cp. Then drag the aliases icon from
your desktop into the Terminal window. (That will put the path on the
command line.) Then type a space and type
    /etc/mail
[The command will look like:
    sudo cp /Users/webb_k/Desktop/aliases /etc/mail
Hit return/enter.]


========================================
Step 3) Set up the user and group needed to run Mailman.

a) Open the System Preferences from the Apple menu. Choose the Accounts
panel. Create a new user called
    mailman
by using the New User... button. Remember the password you assign to the
user. Close the System Preferences panel.

b) Open the Net Info Manager application. (It is located in the Utilities
folder inside the Applications folder.)

c) Click on the lock at the bottom of the window and put in your password.

d) Click on groups in the second column. Click the New button. That creates
a name attribute in the bottom half of the window. Type:
    mailman
in the value column.

e) Pull down the Edit menu and choose Add. In the new attribute, type:
    passwd
in the Property column and
    *
in the Value(s) column.

f) Pull down the Edit menu and choose Add. In the new attribute, type:
    gid
in the Property column and
    199
in the Value(s) column.

g) Click on users in the second column. (You'll be asked to save the changes
you've made to the mailman group. Click the Save button.)

h) Click on mailman in the third column. Select the gid attribute and put
    199
in the Property column.

i) Close the Net Info Manager and Save the changes to the mailman user.


========================================
Step 4) Create a folder for mailman in the finder.

a) You can choose where to create the folder. I chose to make the mailman
folder in the Applications folder. These instructions assume that is where
you create the new folder.

b) Copy the downloaded and uncompressed mailman-2.0.13 folder into the new
mailman folder in the Applications folder. (The version you downloaded may
be slightly different.)

c) Click on the mailman folder and set the owner and group to mailman with
the Show Info command.

d) In the Terminal application, type:
    sudo chmod a+rw,g+ws /Applications/mailman

e) Assuming the you are using the mailman-2.0.13 version, in the Terminal
application type:
    cd /Applications/mailman/mailman-2.0.13
    sudo ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman --with-cgi-gid=70
--with-mail-gid=1

(FYI: on my machine group 70 is www and group 1 is daemon)

f) A whole bunch of lines of code will scroll through the Terminal window.
When it finishes, in the Terminal window, type:
    sudo make install
    cd ..
    sudo bin/check_perms -f
    sudo bin/check_perms -f

(Repeat the check_perms until no errors are reported. If you end up with
problems later, this whole step is probably where the problem will come
from. Permissions are important to Mailman.)


========================================
Step 5) Set up your web server to serve the Mailman web pages for
subscribing and administrating the mailing list.

a) From the Finder, use the Go menu and choose Go to Folder. Type in:
    /etc/httpd/

b) Select the httpd.conf file. Change its owner to you with Show Info.

c) Open httpd.conf with BBEdit. Add these lines to the file:

          ScriptAlias   /mailman/       /Applications/mailman/cgi-bin/
          Alias /pipermail/    /Applications/mailman/archives/public/
  <Directory "/Applications/mailman/archives/public">
  Options FollowSymLinks
  </Directory>

d) Save the file and close it. Change the owner back to System with the Show
Info.

e) In the Terminal application, type:
    su - mailman
    cd /Applications/mailman/cron
    crontab crontab.in
    exit
    sudo /Applications/mailman/bin/mmsitepass xxxx

[Replace xxxx with the password you want to use as the master password to
the mailman application.]

f) Use the Go menu, use the Go to Folder to:
    /var

g) Select the mail folder.

h) Using the Show Info command, change the group to mail with Read & Write
privileges. (You may need to set the owner to you, set the group, then set
the owner back to system. Tell it to apply it to all the contents.)

========================================
Step 6) Finish Sendmail's setup and get it running.

a) In the Terminal application type:
    cd /usr
    sudo mkdir adm
    cd adm
    sudo mkdir sm.bin
    cd sm.bin
    sudo ln -s /Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper
    sudo /System/Library/StartupItems/Sendmail/Sendmail start
    sudo m4 /usr/share/sendmail/conf/m4/cf.m4 /etc/mail/config.mc >
/tmp/sendmail.cf
    sudo mv /etc/mail/sendmail.cf /etc/mail/sendmail.cf.old
    sudo mv /tmp/sendmail.cf /etc/mail/sendmail.cf
    sudo makemap hash /etc/mail/access < /etc/mail/access
    sudo newaliases
    sudo /System/Library/StartupItems/Sendmail/Sendmail restart
    sudo niutil -create . /locations/sendmail
    sudo niutil -createprop . /locations/sendmail sendmail.cf
/etc/mail/sendmail.cf


========================================
Step 7) Create a mailing list.

a) In the Terminal application, type:
    su - mailman
    /Applications/mailman/bin/newlist

The Terminal will ask you for the name of the list. Type a list name without
a space, For example, you could name the list:
    test

b) After you hit return/enter, the Terminal will ask you for the owner's
e-mail. Type in a valid e-mail address, like:
    webb_k at xx.xxx

c) After you hit return/enter, the Terminal will give you a list of 4
aliases like:
    test:                    "|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
    test-admin:              "|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
test"
    test-request:            "|/Applications/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd
test"
    test-owner:              test-admin

d) Select (highlight) these 4 lines and copy them.

e) Use the Finder's Go menu and choose Go to Folder. Type in:
    /etc/mail

f) Open the aliases file with BBEdit and paste the 5 aliases at the end of
the file. Save the file and close it.

g) in the Terminal application, type:
    sudo newaliases

h) You repeat this step (7) for each new list you need.

========================================
Step 8)

a) Use your browser to go to:
    http://localhost/mailman/listinfo

to subscribe to your new list. (Regular users would substitute your
webserver's address for the localhost part of the URL.)

b) Use your browser to go to:
    http://localhost/mailman/admin

to administer your new list.

========================================
Comments:

These sites helped:

http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/2692

http://www.osxfaq.com/FAQ/Mail_Admin_FAQ/index.ws

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1998-November/000150.html

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg05335.html

http://www.afp548.com/Articles/mail/python-mailman.html

http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?q=Y&a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945
231&m=5060918922

http://www.macaddict.com/forums/Forum33/HTML/002746.html

Also, two users on the mailman-users mailing list answered key questions as
I was working through this process.

***** Simon Forster <simon at babelfix.com>
Brent Rossow <brossow at cesa12.k12.wi.us>

========================================
Disclaimer:
These steps worked for me. Others' mileage may vary. Feel free to post
clarifications needed for the steps I've included.

Details of my operating system:
I purchased a Macintosh Powerbook with OS 10.1. I kept it updated with
updates from the Apple site. I purchased OS X 10.2 Jaguar when it came out
and upgraded my system with the Apple CDs.

I also installed the Developer tools that came on a separate CD with Jaguar.
I don't have a partitioned drive and I had previously installed Open Base
and CUPS as well as regular OS  X software.

The biggest hurdles I had to overcome were:
    a) understanding which ids to use when compiling the Mailman application
(step 4e)

    b) figuring out that smrsh (used by Sendmail) needed to have a couple
folders created to work (Thanks Simon.) (step 6a)

    c) knowing that the lists needed to be created by the mailman user.
(step 7a)

    d) I'm used to having install packages that do all the dirty work for
me, or at least having pictures that go along with the instructions [grin]

    e) I do not know UNIX commands and am beginning to learn how to leverage
its power - mostly by trial and error and reading how others solve things.

    f) I left out the steps for pointing to the images for the web pages.
See the INSTALL file included with the Mailman source for info on how to do
that.






From tim1 at timduru.org  Sun Oct  6 21:51:34 2002
From: tim1 at timduru.org (timduru)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 21:51:34 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass after upgrade
Message-ID: <20021006215134.41ec19e8.tim1@timduru.org>

Heyos,

I've recently reinstalled the server that was hosting the mailman
mailing I was running (mailman 2.0.4). 

I put the different files and archives back into the fresh install 
of the server / mailman (2.0.13)

the lists seems to be working fine but when once tries to go to the
archives (private) it ask for the password, 
once you enter it you get the main page with the threads / months
lists, then when you click on something on that page it takes you back
to the login / pass page. 

As it's written on the page it's using session cookies, 
but not sure why it doesn't work anymore.. 

any help appreciated :)




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 00:36:18 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 06 Oct 2002 18:36:18 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass after
	upgrade
In-Reply-To: <20021006215134.41ec19e8.tim1@timduru.org>
References: <20021006215134.41ec19e8.tim1@timduru.org>
Message-ID: <1033943778.2179.3.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Could simply be your browser.  Have you set your browser to accept
cookies from that site?  What browser are you using? 

Some versions of konquerer had problems with storing Python generated
cookies. The current version of IE needs for you to setup that site as
specifically able to store a cookie on your workstation.

Jon Carnes

On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 15:51, timduru wrote:
> Heyos,
> 
> I've recently reinstalled the server that was hosting the mailman
> mailing I was running (mailman 2.0.4). 
> 
> I put the different files and archives back into the fresh install 
> of the server / mailman (2.0.13)
> 
> the lists seems to be working fine but when once tries to go to the
> archives (private) it ask for the password, 
> once you enter it you get the main page with the threads / months
> lists, then when you click on something on that page it takes you back
> to the login / pass page. 
> 
> As it's written on the page it's using session cookies, 
> but not sure why it doesn't work anymore.. 
> 
> any help appreciated :)
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 00:49:59 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 06 Oct 2002 18:49:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix / Mailman integration script
Message-ID: <1033944599.2183.9.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Found this while tooling around the internet (looking to add mp3
functionality to Redhat 8.0)

Jon Carnes
===
Postfix & Mailman integration
May 29th 2002, 8:57 MST

The Postfix mail server and the Mailman are both highly regarded and
popular packages. This python script glues Postfix and Mailman together
in a way so that a virtual domains such as lists.example.com can be
defined and all deliveries are handed off to Mailman. The benefit of
this is that it does not require the creation of ANY aliases.
Installation and configuration instructions are comments inside the
script.


http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman.py




From shashank at evl.uic.edu  Mon Oct  7 01:34:18 2002
From: shashank at evl.uic.edu (Shashank)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 18:34:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do i remove this error message.
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1021006183007.2173738A-100000@laurel.evl.uic.edu>

I keepo getting this error message from the cron daemon.. 

I guessed that there might be  some ownershiop problem with the file
request.db,
but i checked it and couldn't find any such problems.. Here is the o/p of 
ls -al

-rw-r--r--    1 root     mailman         2 Sep 17 12:05 request.db


PLease let me know what should i do.. 
Thanks
Shashank


Traceback (innermost last):

  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ?
    main()
  File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 59, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 860, in Save
    self.SaveRequestsDb()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in SaveRequestsDb
    self.__closedb()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in __closedb
    fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/mailman/lists/all/request.db'





From kbarr216 at yahoo.com  Mon Oct  7 01:44:59 2002
From: kbarr216 at yahoo.com (Ken Barr)
Date: Sun, 6 Oct 2002 16:44:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private list
Message-ID: <20021006234459.14408.qmail@web80303.mail.yahoo.com>

with 2.0.13, is there an option (or a hack) to create
an unjoinable list?

Only the administrator should be able to add people to
our site's "admin" list so that no one can subscribe
to a list of problems with our machine.  

Everyone -should- be able to send mail to this list,
though, not just subscribers.

Thanks,
Ken

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
http://sbc.yahoo.com



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 01:59:45 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 06 Oct 2002 19:59:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do i remove this error message.
In-Reply-To: 
	<Pine.SGI.3.95.1021006183007.2173738A-100000@laurel.evl.uic.edu>
References: <Pine.SGI.3.95.1021006183007.2173738A-100000@laurel.evl.uic.edu>
Message-ID: <1033948786.2179.50.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The file should writable via the group mailman:
  chmod g+w request.db

All of mailman's files need to be accessible via the group rights.  The
rights should be:
  -rw-rw-r--

You might want to run the ~mailman/bin/check_perms program to make sure
that nothing else was modified.  

Are you using a work-around to automatically dump the spam waiting for
the mailing list?  If so, you might want to add the chmod statement
above to your script. 

Jon Carnes
===
On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 19:34, Shashank wrote:
> I keepo getting this error message from the cron daemon.. 
> 
> I guessed that there might be  some ownershiop problem with the file
> request.db,
> but i checked it and couldn't find any such problems.. Here is the o/p of 
> ls -al
> 
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     mailman         2 Sep 17 12:05 request.db
> 
> 
> PLease let me know what should i do.. 
> Thanks
> Shashank
> 
> 
> Traceback (innermost last):
> 
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 92, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/var/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 59, in main
>     mlist.Save()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 860, in Save
>     self.SaveRequestsDb()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in SaveRequestsDb
>     self.__closedb()
>   File "/var/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in __closedb
>     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/mailman/lists/all/request.db'
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 02:06:11 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 06 Oct 2002 20:06:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private list
In-Reply-To: <20021006234459.14408.qmail@web80303.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021006234459.14408.qmail@web80303.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1033949172.2183.57.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Web-admin / Privacy page / Second option:
   "What steps are required for subscription?"

Choose "require approval" or "confirm+approval"


On Sun, 2002-10-06 at 19:44, Ken Barr wrote:
> with 2.0.13, is there an option (or a hack) to create
> an unjoinable list?
> 
> Only the administrator should be able to add people to
> our site's "admin" list so that no one can subscribe
> to a list of problems with our machine.  
> 
> Everyone -should- be able to send mail to this list,
> though, not just subscribers.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ken
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New DSL Internet Access from SBC & Yahoo!
> http://sbc.yahoo.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct  7 02:47:32 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 20:47:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix / Mailman integration script
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006204728.03079768@mail.wingfoot.org>

At 06:49 PM 10/6/2002 -0400, Jon Carnes posted the following...
>Postfix & Mailman integration
>May 29th 2002, 8:57 MST
>
>The Postfix mail server and the Mailman are both highly regarded and
>popular packages. This python script glues Postfix and Mailman together
>in a way so that a virtual domains such as lists.example.com can be
>defined and all deliveries are handed off to Mailman. The benefit of
>this is that it does not require the creation of ANY aliases.
>Installation and configuration instructions are comments inside the
>script.
>
>http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman.py

Interesting.. I've grabbed this, and have modified it for 2.1b3...

Some things I changed:

1) It was calling something called "env" in the shebang, which I had to put 
/usr/local/bin/python (if anyone has a suggestion on this, I'm happy to 
take it, of course... as I mentioned eariler, I am a fledgling programmer 
here...)

2) I changed the types to:

     type = "post"
     types = (("-admin$", "admin"),
              ("-bounces$", "bounces"),
              ("-confirm$", "confirm"),
              ("-join$", "join"),
              ("-leave$", "leave"),
              ("-owner$", "owner"),
              ("-request$", "request"),
              ("-subscribe$", "subscribe"),
              ("-unsubscribe$", "unsubscribe"))

(I suppose I could get rid of the bounce() function, but I figured I'd keep 
it in as a "catch all"...)

Just thought I'd share this.. :)

Thanks!
Glenn

---

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From michael at james.st  Mon Oct  7 02:47:14 2002
From: michael at james.st (Michael James)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:47:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perl scripts to convert Listproc lists to Mailman
Message-ID: <a05100345b9c6830221fd@[172.16.0.11]>

Dear Mailman-users,

Our Solaris server got hacked
 and I'm porting its function to an existing Suse Linux box.

Listproc (known with no affection here as "The Impaler")
 won't compile so we have decided to make the break to Mailman.

Washington University announce that they will be porting their maillists
 to Mailman over the next few months.

My situation is a bit different.

I have about 1300 subscribers on 80 lists to re-create in Mailman,
 preferably by tomorrow morning.

Last night I started writing a quick and dirty perl script to do the job,
 seems perfectly possible, I have the lists created already.

There are heaps of similar queries on this list,
 so someone must have written a more complete script
 than I can rush up overnight.

However in case there aren't any out there, here is last nights effort,
 it creates the lists, putting the aliases into /etc/postfix/aliases.lists



#!/usr/local/bin/perl

$LISTPROC       = '/home/alianet/server';
$MAILMAN        = '/usr/lib/mailman';
$ALIASES        = '/etc/postfix/aliases.lists';
$DEFAULT_PW     = 'missing_pw';

$NEWLIST        = "$MAILMAN/bin/newlist";

# Put a header into the new alias file
open(OUT, "> $ALIASES") or die
        "Can't write new aliases file $ALIASES\n";
print OUT "#\tAliases for Mailman Lists\n#\n",
        "#\tWARNING: This file is automatically generated\n",
        "#\tAny changes made here will be lost\n\n";
close(OUT);


# First get a hash of lists and owners.
# Since newlist can only give a list 1 owner
#  we will have to add the other owners later through the web
open(IN, "< $LISTPROC/owners")
        or die "Can't read the Listproc owners file\n";
while (<IN>)
{
        chop;
        s/^\s//;                        # strip leading whitespace
        /^$/ and next;                  # skip blank lines
        /^#/ and next;                  # skip comments

        ($owner, $list, @options) = split;

        $list =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;           # canonicalize $list
        $list eq 'server' and next;     # dump old Site Manager entry

        unless ( $owners{$list} ) { $owners{$list} = $owner; }
        else    { print "Remember to add $address as an owner to $list\n"; }
}
close(IN);


# Now get the passwords from the config files
opendir(DIR, "$LISTPROC/lists") or
        die "Can't find Listproc Lists directory\n";
foreach $list (readdir(DIR))
{
        -d "$LISTPROC/lists/$list" or next;

        open(IN, "$LISTPROC/lists/$list/config") or do
        {       warn "No config file for $_ list\n";
                next;
        };

        $list =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;

        while (<IN>)
        {
                chop;
                ($attribute, undef, $value) = split(/\s+/, $_, 3);
                $attribute =~/^passwd$/i and $passwords{$list} = $value;
        }
}
closedir(DIR);


foreach (sort(keys(%owners)))
{
        unless ( $passwords{$_} )
        {       warn "No password for $list list, using $DEFAULT_PW\n";
                $passwords{$_} = $DEFAULT_PW;
        }

        print join ' ', $NEWLIST, '-q', '-o', $ALIASES,
                $_, $owners{$_}, $passwords{$_}, "\n";

        system $NEWLIST, '-q', '-o', $ALIASES,
                $_, $owners{$_}, $passwords{$_};
        print "\n";
}

-- 
A right not exercised is a privilege
a privilege not exercised is illegal.

Michael James			michael at james.st
8 Brennan St			Phone: +61 2 6247 2556
Hackett, ACT 2602		Mobile: +61 4 1747 4065
AUSTRALIA			Fax: +61 2 6278 0011




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct  7 03:51:52 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:51:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with email addresses in 2.1b3...
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006214224.033626d8@mail.wingfoot.org>

Here's the email result of a newlist command: Note it says 
"localhost.wingfoot.org" where it *should* say "lists.wingfoot.org"

I have :
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.wingfoot.org'

In my mm_cfg.py .. Postfix is my MTA. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing 
wrong here or point me in the right direction? :-/

Thanks!
Glenn

Delivered-To: ges at wingfoot.org
Subject: Your new mailing list: test4
From: mailman-admin at wingfoot.org
To: ges at wingfoot.org
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:37:30 -0400
X-BeenThere: test4 at localhost.wingfoot.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3
List-Id: <test4.localhost.wingfoot.org>
Sender: test4-bounces at wingfoot.org

The mailing list `test4' has just been created for you.  The following
is some basic information about your mailing list.

Your mailing list password is:

     xxxx

You need this password to configure your mailing list.  You also need
it to handle administrative requests, such as approving mail if you
choose to run a moderated list.

You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

     https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/admin/test4

The web page for users of your mailing list is:

     https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/listinfo/test4

You can even customize these web pages from the list configuration
page.  However, you do need to know HTML to be able to do this.

There is also an email-based interface for users (not administrators)
of your list; you can get info about using it by sending a message
with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:

     test4-request at localhost.wingfoot.org

To unsubscribe a user: from the mailing list 'listinfo' web page,
click on or enter the user's email address as if you were that user.
Where that user would put in their password to unsubscribe, put in
your admin password.  You can also use your password to change
member's options, including digestification, delivery disabling, etc.

Please address all questions to mailman-admin at localhost.wingfoot.org.

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct  7 04:25:36 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:25:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with email addresses in 2.1b3...
In-Reply-To: <a05111b04b9c69b8d0410@[192.168.123.100]>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006214224.033626d8@mail.wingfoot.org>
 <5.1.1.6.0.20021006214224.033626d8@mail.wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006221605.031c4b38@mail.wingfoot.org>

At 09:05 PM 10/6/2002 -0500, Dan Phillips posted the following...
>$MAILHOST environmental variable at the time you ran ./configure. Did you 
>set it? I had the same problem until I manually set it ('setenv $MAILHOST 
>host.domain') immediately before running the config script.

I just rebuilt this way... it didn't change anything :(

My mm_cfg.py has the following (all the changes I've done):

DEFAULT_URL         = 'https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/'
MTA = 'Postfix'
POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.wingfoot.org'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.wingfoot.org'
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Even with this--I just noticed the List-Archive header is coming up:
List-Archive: <http://localhost.wingfoot.org/pipermail/test2>

When it should be:
List-Archive: <https://www.wingfoot.org/pipermail/test2>

Thanks in advance!
Glenn

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct  7 05:14:37 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 23:14:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with email addresses in 2.1b3...
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006231227.02d8dbf8@wheresmymailserver.com>

>DEFAULT_URL         = 'https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/'
>MTA = 'Postfix'
>POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postalias'
>POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/local/sbin/postmap'
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.wingfoot.org'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'www.wingfoot.org'
>DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
>PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = 'https://%(hostname)s/pipermail/%(listname)s'

Ok.. I used deductive reasoning and put PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL in the 
mm_cfg.py file.. that fixed the List-Archive bit...

The rewritten "To:" line turns out to be I didn't realize I had a 
masquerade_domains command in my main.cf

Thanks everyone... Sorry to have been an idjit about it .. :-/

Glenn

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From cooleydd at pacbell.net  Mon Oct  7 06:08:22 2002
From: cooleydd at pacbell.net (Don Cooley)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:08:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006214224.033626d8@mail.wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFIEAGPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>

To All

It is my understanding that I cannot send many Blind Copies with Mailman
as it will ask for an approval before it is allowed to go through.

For example, If I am dealing with 20 Mailman lists and I want to send a
post to all of them, I would use my name (and regular email address) in
the To: and the names of the twenty lists in the Blind Copy area.  There
are many problems involved if I can not achieve this.  I simply cannot
post to each one individually because of time restraints and other
internal problems of mine.

Has to be some way that I can allow those 20 lists to be included as a
Blind Copy in one post.  It has to be achieved in a way that it would not
effect any other lists on the server.

Any ideas??




From wash at wananchi.com  Mon Oct  7 07:20:33 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 08:20:33 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFIEAGPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006214224.033626d8@mail.wingfoot.org> <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFIEAGPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20021007052033.GA18486@ns2.wananchi.com>

* Don Cooley <cooleydd at pacbell.net> [20021007 07:08]: wrote:
> To All
> 
> It is my understanding that I cannot send many Blind Copies with Mailman
> as it will ask for an approval before it is allowed to go through.
> 
> For example, If I am dealing with 20 Mailman lists and I want to send a
> post to all of them, I would use my name (and regular email address) in
> the To: and the names of the twenty lists in the Blind Copy area.  There
> are many problems involved if I can not achieve this.  I simply cannot
> post to each one individually because of time restraints and other
> internal problems of mine.
> 
> Has to be some way that I can allow those 20 lists to be included as a
> Blind Copy in one post.  It has to be achieved in a way that it would not
> effect any other lists on the server.
> 
> Any ideas??


Create another list and subscribe the current lists to it. Probably this
should be an "ANNOUNCE" only list. Then make yourself the only user who
can post to this new list.


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post



From cooleydd at pacbell.net  Mon Oct  7 07:32:49 2002
From: cooleydd at pacbell.net (Don Cooley)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 22:32:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies
In-Reply-To: <20021007052033.GA18486@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFMEAOPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>

That is an idea but the problem is - is that I do not always send to the
same group of the 20.  Sometimes it might be 8 of them sometimes all,
sometimes 2 , etc., etc., etc.  Actually I rarely send to all

Any more ideas - but that is a good one.

An additional problem is that these are groups of men with prostate cancer
and I have a medical privacy concern in addition to just being able to
send to a few at a time.  It seems to me that the Blind Copy should be
able to be turned on or off according to the list owner.

Thanks

Don
      Order your "Prostate-Help CD-ROM" at
            http://www.cooleyville.com/cancer/cacdrom.htm
      Prostate-Help Web Site, Aubrey's latest book on PCa,
      Dr. Myers Prostate Forums, and more all included.
      Don Cooley, call 408 268-6400 if I can help!
             Web site - http://prostate-help.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Odhiambo Washington
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:21 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Cc: cooleydd at pacbell.net
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies


* Don Cooley <cooleydd at pacbell.net> [20021007 07:08]: wrote:
> To All
>
> It is my understanding that I cannot send many Blind Copies with Mailman
> as it will ask for an approval before it is allowed to go through.
>
> For example, If I am dealing with 20 Mailman lists and I want to send a
> post to all of them, I would use my name (and regular email address) in
> the To: and the names of the twenty lists in the Blind Copy area.  There
> are many problems involved if I can not achieve this.  I simply cannot
> post to each one individually because of time restraints and other
> internal problems of mine.
>
> Has to be some way that I can allow those 20 lists to be included as a
> Blind Copy in one post.  It has to be achieved in a way that it would
not
> effect any other lists on the server.
>
> Any ideas??


Create another list and subscribe the current lists to it. Probably this
should be an "ANNOUNCE" only list. Then make yourself the only user who
can post to this new list.


        cheers
       - wash
+----------------------------------+--------------------------------------
---+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)
|
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
---+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"
						 --from a /. post

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From bas at brijn.nu  Mon Oct  7 08:36:06 2002
From: bas at brijn.nu (bas at brijn.nu)
Date: Mon,  7 Oct 2002 08:36:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim4
Message-ID: <1033972566.3da12b564e254@imp2.brijn.nu>

Hello,

I searched with Google, but was surprised to find only very limited 
information on integrating mailman with Exim4.

Does somebody know a similar explanation as now in the docs for Exim3 for 
Exim4?

Kind regards,
Bas Rijniersce




From bellini at emmequadro.net  Mon Oct  7 13:05:10 2002
From: bellini at emmequadro.net (Marco Bellini)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 13:05:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery hangs
Message-ID: <024901c26df1$6759cec0$0c010a0a@pcmarco>

sometimes a message in the qfiles dir hangs the system.
this is the log

Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485): Traceback (innermost last):
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ?
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):      kids = main(lock)
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 253, in main
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):      keepqueued =
dispose_message(mlist, msg, msgdata)
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 157, in dispose_message
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):      mlist.ParseMailCommands(msg)
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):   File
"/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailCommandHandler.py", line 123, in
ParseMailCommands
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485):      precedence = msg.get('precedence',
'').lower()
Oct 07 12:55:31 2002 qrunner(20485): AttributeError :  'string' object has
no attribute 'lower'

i'm running mailman 2.0.12
can anyone help me?

thx
m.






From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 14:56:02 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 08:56:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFMEAOPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
References: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFMEAOPJAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <1033995363.1813.3.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Make the TO: be either your email address or some bogus email address.
In each list that you want to BCC, put your email address (or the bogus
one that you decided to use for the TO:) into 
"Alias names (regexps) which qualify as explicit to or cc destination
names for this list." - You'll find this on the web-admin Privacy page.

Jon Carnes

===
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 01:32, Don Cooley wrote:
> That is an idea but the problem is - is that I do not always send to the
> same group of the 20.  Sometimes it might be 8 of them sometimes all,
> sometimes 2 , etc., etc., etc.  Actually I rarely send to all
> 
> Any more ideas - but that is a good one.
> 
> An additional problem is that these are groups of men with prostate cancer
> and I have a medical privacy concern in addition to just being able to
> send to a few at a time.  It seems to me that the Blind Copy should be
> able to be turned on or off according to the list owner.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Don
>       Order your "Prostate-Help CD-ROM" at
>             http://www.cooleyville.com/cancer/cacdrom.htm
>       Prostate-Help Web Site, Aubrey's latest book on PCa,
>       Dr. Myers Prostate Forums, and more all included.
>       Don Cooley, call 408 268-6400 if I can help!
>              Web site - http://prostate-help.com
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Odhiambo Washington
> Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 10:21 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Cc: cooleydd at pacbell.net
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Blind Copies
> 
> 
> * Don Cooley <cooleydd at pacbell.net> [20021007 07:08]: wrote:
> > To All
> >
> > It is my understanding that I cannot send many Blind Copies with Mailman
> > as it will ask for an approval before it is allowed to go through.
> >
> > For example, If I am dealing with 20 Mailman lists and I want to send a
> > post to all of them, I would use my name (and regular email address) in
> > the To: and the names of the twenty lists in the Blind Copy area.  There
> > are many problems involved if I can not achieve this.  I simply cannot
> > post to each one individually because of time restraints and other
> > internal problems of mine.
> >
> > Has to be some way that I can allow those 20 lists to be included as a
> > Blind Copy in one post.  It has to be achieved in a way that it would
> not
> > effect any other lists on the server.
> >
> > Any ideas??
> 
> 
> Create another list and subscribe the current lists to it. Probably this
> should be an "ANNOUNCE" only list. Then make yourself the only user who
> can post to this new list.
> 
> 
>         cheers
>        - wash
> +----------------------------------+--------------------------------------
> ---+
> Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)
> |
> http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
> GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
> +---------------------------------+---------------------------------------
> ---+
> "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"
> 						 --from a /. post
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 14:57:31 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 08:57:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery hangs
In-Reply-To: <024901c26df1$6759cec0$0c010a0a@pcmarco>
References: <024901c26df1$6759cec0$0c010a0a@pcmarco>
Message-ID: <1033995451.1808.5.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Upgrade to Mailman 2.0.13





From jchum at aismedia.com  Mon Oct  7 16:33:43 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:33:43 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending HTML to the email list
Message-ID: <00a901c26e0e$8a169b10$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Hi,

I've sent a HTML document successfully to the list and I'm curious what will
happen to those who cannot read HTML documents properly? Is there an option
in Mailman for subscribers to subscribe to a text only version, or will that
require setting up a new list? Or will Mailman handle this for me?


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From clawson at jungle.ca  Mon Oct  7 16:36:32 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 10:36:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
Message-ID: <B9C71430.2D3A1%clawson@jungle.ca>

Hi. 

My qrunner log (in /var/log/mailman) is generating hundreds of lines like
the following:

Oct 07 10:33:04 2002 (6942) Could not acquire qrunner lock

What is trying to lock qrunner? Why would it be failing to acquire a lock?
What would be the consequences of failing to acquire a lock?

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson
clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct  7 16:47:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 10:47:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <B9C71430.2D3A1%clawson@jungle.ca>
References: <B9C71430.2D3A1%clawson@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <1034002073.1808.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This one should be in the FAQ if it is not already.

This is normal in Mailman version 2.0.x which you are *probably* running
(you didn't tell us your version or really anything about your system -
shame on you!)

This version of Mailman uses a cron job to launch qrunner every minute -
but if qrunner is still running from the previous minute, then it will
not be able to acquire a lock and it will not launch a second incident
of qrunner.

Why is qrunner still running?  Well its delivering mail to folks on your
mailing lists. As your lists grow larger qrunner takes longer to run.

Jon Carnes

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 10:36, Chris Lawson wrote:
> Hi. 
> 
> My qrunner log (in /var/log/mailman) is generating hundreds of lines like
> the following:
> 
> Oct 07 10:33:04 2002 (6942) Could not acquire qrunner lock
> 
> What is trying to lock qrunner? Why would it be failing to acquire a lock?
> What would be the consequences of failing to acquire a lock?
> 
> cmkl
> -- 
> Chris Lawson
> clawson at jungle.ca
> http://www.jungle.ca
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Mon Oct  7 17:18:44 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 16:18:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating unique welcome messages.
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIIEBHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

I posted a similar question last week, and I was given a response, but I
soon realised that that wasn't what I wanted to do. I would like to have
tailored HTML welcome messages, on a per list basis. My subscribees *does
that worrd actually exist!?* all use HTML based email readers, or web based
email accounts, *actually nearly 80% use hotmail, the rest, a split between
yahoo, and work email*. It would be nice if I could have a tailored HTML
message for every list. Is this possible?

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2184 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021007/9ee0cb0c/attachment.bin 

From greg at gregwestin.com  Mon Oct  7 18:37:22 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating unique welcome messages.
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIIEBHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.44.0210071235120.18395-100000@westin>

I posted about this, as well, except not the HTML e-mail part.  It looks
like the answer is no, because you can only customize the message the each
list adds to the top of the welcome e-mail, or change the e-mail
site-wide.  I'd guess that you could modify the welcome e-mail template to
make it HTML mail, and then simply have the customized portion at the top
of each e-mail, but I'm not sure there'd be a heck of a lot of a point to
doing that.

Greg

---
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com/
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Angel Gabriel wrote:

> I posted a similar question last week, and I was given a response, but I
> soon realised that that wasn't what I wanted to do. I would like to have
> tailored HTML welcome messages, on a per list basis. My subscribees *does
> that worrd actually exist!?* all use HTML based email readers, or web based
> email accounts, *actually nearly 80% use hotmail, the rest, a split between
> yahoo, and work email*. It would be nice if I could have a tailored HTML
> message for every list. Is this possible?
>
> ***
> Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
> the experience.
> ***
> If you want guest list for bare club
> nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
> ***
> Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
> sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
> ***
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>
>




From mailinglists at belfin.ch  Mon Oct  7 18:45:07 2002
From: mailinglists at belfin.ch (mailinglists at belfin.ch)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 18:45:07 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] want gid 500 not 100
Message-ID: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B22A8@mx.snizek.ch>

Hello

This is the error I get upon confirming my subscription:

This is the MS Exchange 2003 XP Bugfree program at host lists.seaan.net.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The MS Exchange 2003 XP Bugfree program

<mailman-request at lists.seaan.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman". Command output:
Failure
    to exec script. WANTED gid 500, GOT gid 100.  (Reconfigure to take 100?)


checking the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman it is group mailman user
mailman both gid 500 and uid 500. 
to be precise hte directory looks like this:

-rwxr-sr-x    1 mailman  mailman     38452 Oct  7 15:06 mailman


What am I doing wrong?

Thanks,
philipp

ah, yes, mailer is postfix



From mailman at tux.org  Mon Oct  7 18:53:35 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 12:53:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sending HTML to the email list
In-Reply-To: <00a901c26e0e$8a169b10$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210071204450.13294-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Mon, 7 Oct 2002, Jonathan Chum wrote:

> I've sent a HTML document successfully to the list and I'm curious
> what will happen to those who cannot read HTML documents properly? Is
> there an option in Mailman for subscribers to subscribe to a text only
> version, or will that require setting up a new list?

The proper way to handle a subscriber base where the capabilities of
the end-users' e-mail software varies is to send a multipart message
with the same content rendered in various formats.  Such messages are
called "multipart/alternative" (for obvious reasons) and modern e-mail
software will select an appropriate part to display.  Modern e-mail
software will also -compose- these multipart/alternative messages for
you; make sure you are using modern e-mail software and that you have
it configured to do this.

The down side?  Your outgoing message is larger than it needs to be,
because it contains the same information more than once.  (Also, some
formats, like HTML, are "fluffy" -- they are all by themselves larger
than they need to be to convey the information.)  This is a problem
if you pay for your connectivity by the byte, or if you are near your
monthly limits or whatever.  If connectivity is cheap for you, then you
may find this downside to be small.  If connectivity is -not- cheap
for your subscribers, they may very well ask if you can drop the HTML
stuff and just send it plain-text.

If you do not mind sending the same message twice - once in HTML and
once in plain text - you are certainly free to set up two lists and
direct people to subscribe to the one that suits them.  The nature of
the messages going out, and the nature of your subscriber base will
determine whether or not this becomes a huge pain in the neck.  For
example, this might lead to an administrative nightmare if subscribers
become really confused about the two lists, or if your turn-over rate
is high, or whatever.  Or, it may be a breeze.

> Or will Mailman handle this for me?

I will hazard a guess that no, Mailman will -never- take care of
reposting HTML messages to HTML or plain text (or other formats)
based on the subscriber's preference.  For one, as I outlined above,
accommodating varying e-mail reading software capabilities is already
taken care of with an established standard (RFC 2046 (see section 5.1.4
in particular)).  For another, there is already plenty of work to do on
essential and highly desireable features, to say nothing of docs, etc.
What you envision would require Mailman to have a full-blown HTML parser
so that it can render things like nested HTML tables into the equivalent
formated plain text.

For the same reason that Mailman will (I would guess) never contain
a spell-checker, I would guess that it will never contain an HTML parser:
This is not Mailman's role.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From michael at james.st  Mon Oct  7 18:48:40 2002
From: michael at james.st (Michael James)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 02:48:40 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perl scripts to convert Listproc lists to Mailman
Message-ID: <a05100351b9c760482514@[172.16.0.11]>

Dear Mailman-users,

Well, no replies came in and the need was great
 so I have just started hacking.

My users getported or disconnected.
Their (and my) choice is Mailman-how-it-comes-out or nothing.  So.

I figure that most of the users
 were living with the preferences listproc wished on them anyway.
Once they get the web interface
 they will be able to actually configure subs how they want.

Here is the second installment   "add-members-from-listproc"

It creates a directory called "Listproc-subscribers"
 reads the subscribers file
 from as many list configuration directories as you give it,
 generates an alphabetical file of "email at addresses  (Real Names)"
 offers you the option to edit it with vi,
 and loads it in using mailman/bin/add_users
The list files are called <listname>.digest and
 they are left in Listproc-subscribers after a run.

The only preference users carry with them is digest or not.

I can't see a scriptable way of configuring things like
 ACK  NoReview  etc.

Short of learning the email interface that is
 and forging subscription modification emails out of perl.

The likely usage for the script is:

	add-members-from-listproc ~server/lists/*

ie: give it one or more list directories with .subscriber files in them.

Run it without parameters and it'll give a usage prompt.

Perl follows:


#!/usr/local/bin/perl

$LISTPROC       = '/home/alianet/server';
$MAILMAN        = '/usr/lib/mailman';
$TMP_DIR        = 'Listproc-subscribers';

$VI             = '/bin/vi';
$ADD_MEMBERS    = "$MAILMAN/bin/add_members";

use File::Basename;

@ARGV or die "Usage: add-users-from-listproc list_dir [list_dir] ...\n",
                "Hint: add-users-from-listproc ~server/lists/*\n";

-d $TMP_DIR or mkdir $TMP_DIR;

foreach $list_dir (@ARGV)
{
        $list_dir =~ s%/$%%;
        -d "$list_dir" or next;
        $list = basename($list_dir);
        $list =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;   # cannonicalize $list

        # Now get the subscribers to add
        print "\nLooking at $list\n";

        # Initialize some variables
        %entries = ();
        $digest_file = "$TMP_DIR/$list.digest";
        $non_digest = "$TMP_DIR/$list.non";

        open(IN, "$list_dir/.subscribers") or do
                { warn "No subscribers file for $_ list\n"; next; };
        while (<IN>)
        {
                chop;
                ($address, @options) = split;
                $address =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;        # lowercase it
                # check it has an @ with something either side
                $address =~ /.\@./ or next;

                # Looks like a valid line

               $ack=0; $type='non'; $yes=0;
               while ($_=shift(@options))
                {
                        /ACK/ and do { $ack=1; next; };
                        /\d+/ and next;
                        /DIGEST/ and do { $type='digest'; next; };
                        /^NO$/ and last;
                        /^YES$/ and do { $yes=1; last; };
                }
                $name = join ' ', @options;

                # If there are no capitals then uppercase first letters
                $name =~ tr/A-Z/A-Z/ or $name =~ s/\b(\w)/\u\1/g;

                # We will have to eyeball a lot of these
                # The columns might as well line up
                length($address) <  8 and $address .= "\t";
                length($address) < 16 and $address .= "\t";
                length($address) < 24 and $address .= "\t";
                length($address) < 32 and $address .= "\t";

                if ( $entries{digest}{$address} || $entries{non}{$address} )
                {       print "\tDuplicate entries:\t",
                                $entries{$type}{$address},
                                "\t\t\t$address\t($name)\n";
                }
                else { $entries{$type}{$address} = "$address\t($name)\n"; }
        }
        close(IN);
        # Entries loaded into entries hash

        $count = load_list( $list, $digest_file, $entries{digest} ) and
                print "\t$count digest entries loaded into $list\n";

        $count = load_list( $list, $non_digest, $entries{non} ) and
                print "\t$count regular entries loaded into $list\n";
}



sub load_list
# expects a filename and a ref to a hash of entries
# returns
{       my($list, $file, $ref) = @_;
        my $count = 0;

        open(OUT, "> $file") or
                die "Can't write $file\n";
        foreach (sort(keys(%$ref)))
        {       ++$count;
                print OUT $$ref{$_};
        }
        close(OUT);

        # If it's empty, forget it
        unless ( $count ) { unlink($file); return; }

        print "\t$file has $count entries, Load, Edit, Skip or Quit? ";
        my $answer = <STDIN>;
        $answer =~ /^q/i and exit;
        $answer =~ /^s/i and return;
        $answer =~ /^e/i and system $VI, $file;

        # Count lines again and if it's empty, forget it
        $count = 0; open(IN, "< $file"); ++$count while <IN>;
        unless ( $count ) { unlink($file); return; }

        system $ADD_MEMBERS, '-cn', '-wn', '-n', $file, $list;
}
-- 
A right not exercised is a privilege
a privilege not exercised is illegal.

Michael James			michael at james.st
8 Brennan St			Phone: +61 2 6247 2556
Hackett, ACT 2602		Mobile: +61 4 1747 4065
AUSTRALIA			Fax: +61 2 6278 0011




From michael at james.st  Mon Oct  7 19:04:33 2002
From: michael at james.st (Michael James)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 03:04:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perl scripts to convert Listproc lists to Mailman
Message-ID: <a05100352b9c76ee1938f@[172.16.0.11]>

Dear Mailman-users,

Read this part first, it didn't come through the first time.

Our Solaris server got hacked
 and I'm porting its function to an existing Suse Linux box.

Listproc (known with no affection here as "The Impaler")
 won't compile so we have decided to make the break to Mailman.

Washington University announce that they will be porting their maillists
 to Mailman over the next few months.

My situation is a bit different.

I have about 1300 subscribers on 80 lists to re-create in Mailman,
 preferably by tomorrow morning.

Last night I started writing a quick and dirty perl script to do the job,
 seems perfectly possible, I have the lists created already.

There are heaps of similar queries on this list,
 so someone must have written a more complete script
 than I can rush up overnight.

However in case there aren't any out there, here is last nights effort,
 it creates the lists, putting the aliases into /etc/postfix/aliases.lists



#!/usr/local/bin/perl

$LISTPROC       = '/home/alianet/server';
$MAILMAN        = '/usr/lib/mailman';
$ALIASES        = '/etc/postfix/aliases.lists';
$DEFAULT_PW     = 'missing_pw';

$NEWLIST        = "$MAILMAN/bin/newlist";

# Put a header into the new alias file
open(OUT, "> $ALIASES") or die
        "Can't write new aliases file $ALIASES\n";
print OUT "#\tAliases for Mailman Lists\n#\n",
        "#\tWARNING: This file is automatically generated\n",
        "#\tAny changes made here will be lost\n\n";
close(OUT);


# First get a hash of lists and owners.
# Since newlist can only give a list 1 owner
#  we will have to add the other owners later through the web
open(IN, "< $LISTPROC/owners")
        or die "Can't read the Listproc owners file\n";
while (<IN>)
{
        chop;
        s/^\s//;                        # strip leading whitespace
        /^$/ and next;                  # skip blank lines
        /^#/ and next;                  # skip comments

        ($owner, $list, @options) = split;

        $list =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;           # canonicalize $list
        $list eq 'server' and next;     # dump old Site Manager entry

        unless ( $owners{$list} ) { $owners{$list} = $owner; }
        else    { print "Remember to add $address as an owner to $list\n"; }
}
close(IN);


# Now get the passwords from the config files
opendir(DIR, "$LISTPROC/lists") or
        die "Can't find Listproc Lists directory\n";
foreach $list (readdir(DIR))
{
        -d "$LISTPROC/lists/$list" or next;

        open(IN, "$LISTPROC/lists/$list/config") or do
        {       warn "No config file for $_ list\n";
                next;
        };

        $list =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/;

        while (<IN>)
        {
                chop;
                ($attribute, undef, $value) = split(/\s+/, $_, 3);
                $attribute =~/^passwd$/i and $passwords{$list} = $value;
        }
}
closedir(DIR);


foreach (sort(keys(%owners)))
{
        unless ( $passwords{$_} )
        {       warn "No password for $list list, using $DEFAULT_PW\n";
                $passwords{$_} = $DEFAULT_PW;
        }

        print join ' ', $NEWLIST, '-q', '-o', $ALIASES,
                $_, $owners{$_}, $passwords{$_}, "\n";

        system $NEWLIST, '-q', '-o', $ALIASES,
                $_, $owners{$_}, $passwords{$_};
        print "\n";
}

-- 
A right not exercised is a privilege
a privilege not exercised is illegal.

Michael James			michael at james.st
8 Brennan St			Phone: +61 2 6247 2556
Hackett, ACT 2602		Mobile: +61 4 1747 4065
AUSTRALIA			Fax: +61 2 6278 0011




From haroldp at sierraweb.com  Mon Oct  7 19:46:05 2002
From: haroldp at sierraweb.com (Harold Paulson)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 10:46:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] customize verify.txt and so on
In-Reply-To: <1033752931.11955.82.camel@almasretes>
References: <1033752931.11955.82.camel@almasretes>
Message-ID: <p05100304b9c777b36d7f@[216.162.173.6]>

There was a patch to do this for Mailman 2.0, back in the day:

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&aid=400953&func=detail

But it has not been updated in a very long time, and I do not think 
it will apply to any recent version.

Mailman 2.1 includes this functionality by default, but it is still 
beta at this point.  If one of the Python gurus around here wanted to 
update that patch, that would be cool...

	- H


>Hi!
>
>I'm using Woody's mailman.
>
>Is it possible, to have an own verify.txt for each lists?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mike


-- 

Harold Paulson                  Sierra Web Design
haroldp at sierraweb.com           http://www.sierraweb.com
VOICE: 775.833.9500             FAX:   775-201-4458



From clawson at jungle.ca  Mon Oct  7 17:07:39 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 11:07:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <1034002073.1808.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <200210072008.g97K8RT08768@linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca>

on 10/7/02 10:47 AM, Jon Carnes aka jonc at nc.rr.com wrote:

> This one should be in the FAQ if it is not already.

Leaping before I look, once again. Of course it is. I followed the advice
and checked for a running qrunner. There was none. I went to
/usr/share/mailman/locks/ and deleted *a ton* of lock files, including many
for the same list.

> This is normal in Mailman version 2.0.x which you are *probably* running
> (you didn't tell us your version or really anything about your system -
> shame on you!)

I do respond well to shaming, so yes, I'm running mailman 2.0.13-0.7.0 aka
the RedHat RPM version of 2.0.13 on RedHat 7.0

> Why is qrunner still running?  Well its delivering mail to folks on your
> mailing lists. As your lists grow larger qrunner takes longer to run.

I think now I understand what qrunner does, or rather is supposed to do on
normal systems.

But here's why I'm nosing around the qrunner log file in the first place.
It's not delivering messages. If I create a new list, or subscribe someone
new, mailman sends the usual feedback messages. But list traffic is nowhere
to be found. 

I just sent a message to my test list, and it's created new lock files:
qrunner.lock and qrunner.lock.linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca.7138

top tells me there's no mailman process running.

My error log has a few of these in them:

AlreadyLockedError:

Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059): Traceback (innermost last):
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
"/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ?
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      kids = main(lock)
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
"/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 264, in main
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      mlist.Save()
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
"/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 861, in Save
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
"/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 256, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      makelink(privdir, pubdir)
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
"/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 42, in makelink
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      os.symlink(old, new)
Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or
directory 

Any suggestions you could offer. Should I post this to the list? Or is this
a FAQ too?

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson
clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 01:06:54 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 19:06:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Creating unique welcome messages.
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIIEBHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIIEBHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1034032015.3449.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If you have access to the Source Code, then the answer is yes.  Someone
has already written the patches needed for this (you would have to check
the archives...).

The hack into the source is extremely minor. I believe you only have to
change one line - the line that grabs the generic welcome text. Change
it so that the path to the file is relative to the list. Then of course
you need to copy the generic welcome file into each of the list
directories.  After that, edit at will!

Good luck - Jon Carnes
===
On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 11:18, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> I posted a similar question last week, and I was given a response, but I
> soon realised that that wasn't what I wanted to do. I would like to have
> tailored HTML welcome messages, on a per list basis. My subscribees *does
> that worrd actually exist!?* all use HTML based email readers, or web based
> email accounts, *actually nearly 80% use hotmail, the rest, a split between
> yahoo, and work email*. It would be nice if I could have a tailored HTML
> message for every list. Is this possible?
> 
> ***
> Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
> the experience.
> ***
> If you want guest list for bare club
> nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
> ***
> Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
> sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
> ***
> 
> 
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
>  





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 01:20:35 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 19:20:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] want gid 500 not 100
In-Reply-To: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B22A8@mx.snizek.ch>
References: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B22A8@mx.snizek.ch>
Message-ID: <1034032841.3449.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 12:45, mailinglists at belfin.ch wrote:

Re-install Mailman and in the ./configure step use a switch to point the
mail-gid to 100.

The GID being mentioned is the Group ID of the MTA (in this case 100) -
not the GID of the Mailman user.  The GID of the MTA user is needed, as
it is the MTA user that is actually going to run the Mailman wrapper
program (the program that is complaining).

As a security precaution only root, mailman, and the MTA can run the
wrapper program.

> <mailman-request at lists.seaan.net>: Command died with status 2:
>     "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman". Command output:
> Failure
>     to exec script. WANTED gid 500, GOT gid 100.  (Reconfigure to take 100?)
> 
> 
> checking the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman it is group mailman user
> mailman both gid 500 and uid 500. 
> to be precise hte directory looks like this:
> 
> -rwxr-sr-x    1 mailman  mailman     38452 Oct  7 15:06 mailman
> 
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 

Not reading the FAQ
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Good Luck - Jon Carnes




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 01:27:10 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 19:27:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <200210072008.g97K8RT08768@linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca>
References: <200210072008.g97K8RT08768@linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca>
Message-ID: <1034033230.3461.19.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Hmmm, interesting error. Have you run ~mailman/bin/check_perms ?  Are
the proper directories setup as Set-gid?  Have you run out of space on
any of your volumes?

> I'm running mailman 2.0.13-0.7.0 aka
> the RedHat RPM version of 2.0.13 on RedHat 7.0
> 
> I just sent a message to my test list, and it's created new lock files:
> qrunner.lock and qrunner.lock.linux.jungle.ottawa.on.ca.7138
> 
> top tells me there's no mailman process running.
> 
> My error log has a few of these in them:
> 
> AlreadyLockedError:
> 
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059): Traceback (innermost last):
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
> "/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 283, in ?
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      kids = main(lock)
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
> "/usr/share/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 264, in main
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      mlist.Save()
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
> "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 861, in Save
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
> "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 256, in
> CheckHTMLArchiveDir
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      makelink(privdir, pubdir)
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):   File
> "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 42, in makelink
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059):      os.symlink(old, new)
> Oct 07 10:42:02 2002 qrunner(7059): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file or
> directory 
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 01:36:30 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 07 Oct 2002 19:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman and sendmail
In-Reply-To: <20021007230240.79789.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021007230240.79789.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1034033790.3461.23.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Check both Mailman and your MTA (Sendmail) log files.  
If they don't give a clue, then try running qrunner by hand (look at the
cron files for Mailman and see the proper syntax for running qrunner).

If you cant figure it out, then post back to the list with the info you
have and what version you are running (version of Mailman, Sendmail,
Linux - or other OS)

Jon Carnes

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 19:02, Mariano Liceaga wrote:
> After making some modifications to sendmail config I
> can finally send a help or subscribe command to the
> list, and get a response. Now I realize that I have
> another problem, I post to the list but the messages
> never show up...what can it be now??
> Thanx a lot!
> 
> 
> Ahora pod?s usar Yahoo! Messenger desde tu celular. Aprend? c?mo hacerlo en Yahoo! M?vil: http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/sms.html





From barry at python.org  Tue Oct  8 04:48:40 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:48:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] MM & Mac OS X ?
References: <966C5F5A-D430-11D6-8CFF-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
	<2147483647.1033393890@mrspeel.fates.org>
Message-ID: <15778.18312.981711.250611@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "DBO" == David B O'Donnell <atropos at fates.org> writes:

    DBO> I've been running MailMan under Mac OS X Server for quite a
    DBO> while now, using Postfix as the MTA. The process for running
    DBO> under Client is virtually the same. You may find the article
    DBO> on AFP548.com (URL:
    DBO> http://www.afp548.com/Articles/mail/python-mailman.html) to
    DBO> be of help, if you also use Postfix.

I'm going to start a MacOSX README.  Mind if I included this url?

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct  8 04:56:00 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 22:56:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade failure to 2.1b3
References: <596AEE1A-D686-11D6-9F10-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>
	<20021003172146.518B.PAHUD@ezplay.tv>
	<3D9C19D0.9BE4C4CB@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <15778.18752.251838.448552@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "GAVH" == G Armour Van Horn <vanhorn at whidbey.com> writes:

    GAVH> The configure runs fine right down to the end where it tells
    GAVH> me I don't have Chinese Unicode support and sends me off to
    GAVH> a location where there aren't any files, but I don't really
    GAVH> expect to have a lot of Chinese customers on here. It's the
    GAVH> next step that is stopping me:

    GAVH> make install runs smoothly for several minutes, but
    GAVH> concludes with this:

    > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
    > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
    > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
    > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
    > Compiling /home/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
    > Traceback (most recent call last):
    >   File "bin/update", line 44, in ?
    >     import paths
    > ImportError: No module named paths
    > make: *** [update] Error 1
    >

As far as I've been able to figure out, this only happens when you do
not have the python2-devel package installed.  It should never happen
when you build Python from source.  Apparently RH decided not to
include the distutils package in the basic Python RPM, but Mailman 2.1
requires distutils in order to properly install.

MM2.1b4 will barf loudly if distutils is missing, so at least you
won't get this mysterious error.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct  8 05:03:33 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:03:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mac OSX Jaguar Mailman/Sendmail - complete installation steps
References: <B9C52FE2.3337%webb_k@suu.edu>
Message-ID: <15778.19205.901753.704562@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "KW" == Kathleen Webb <webb_k at suu.edu> writes:

    KW> ** Successful Jaguar (Mac OSX 10.2) installation steps for
    KW> Mailman/Sendmail **

Thanks for the post Kathleen.  I'd like to include a url to this
archived message in the new README.MACOSX file.

Can you tell me, was this Mailman 2.0 or 2.1?

-Barry



From clawson at jungle.ca  Tue Oct  8 05:08:06 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 23:08:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <1034033230.3461.19.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <B9C7C456.2D3D8%clawson@jungle.ca>

on 10/7/02 7:27 PM, Jon Carnes aka jonc at nc.rr.com wrote:

> Hmmm, interesting error. Have you run ~mailman/bin/check_perms ?

Yes. "No problems found."

> Are the proper directories setup as Set-gid?

Um... a bit of a knowledge blind spot for me. The directory of a given
private list archive is mailman.mailman.

But there are a couple of odd things in two public archive directories for
lists created since I moved to the rpm version of Mailman.

The public archive directories (which seem to be soft links to private
archive directories) for these two lists are flashing white with a red
background, when I look at them (using 'ls'). That usually means there's a
permission or a linking problem. But they, like the non-flashing
directories, are root.mailman

>  Have you run out of space on any of your volumes?

I'm close, but /var has 9mb left and that's as close as I come to full.

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson
clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca




From barry at python.org  Tue Oct  8 05:08:29 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:08:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim4
References: <1033972566.3da12b564e254@imp2.brijn.nu>
Message-ID: <15778.19501.395226.839093@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "bas" ==   <bas at brijn.nu> writes:

    bas> Does somebody know a similar explanation as now in the docs
    bas> for Exim3 for Exim4?

We use Mailman and Exim4 on python.org/zope.org.  I'll try to update
README.EXIM with some examples from our configuration for MM2.1b4.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct  8 05:23:06 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 23:23:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman.2.1b3 - bounces going to moderators?
References: <02eb01c26c02$8d5d6dc0$f621a8c0@topdown>
Message-ID: <15778.20378.132752.276893@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "EM" == Erik Myllymaki <erik.myllymaki at starpointe.ca> writes:

    EM> Is this correct behaviour?

It's definitely documented to only go to the list owners.

    EM> I thought the bounces that get past the auto bounce detection
    EM> woulod only go to the list owner, but they seem to be going to
    EM> all the moderators too...

The list moderators probably don't need to be bothered.  I'll fix that
for MM2.1b4.

Thanks,
-Barry



From mailinglists at belfin.ch  Tue Oct  8 08:42:36 2002
From: mailinglists at belfin.ch (mailinglists at belfin.ch)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:42:36 +0200 
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] want gid 500 not 100
Message-ID: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B22B2@mx.snizek.ch>

Thanks a lot, that was the solution. Works now!

Philipp


> On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 12:45, mailinglists at belfin.ch wrote:
> 
> Re-install Mailman and in the ./configure step use a switch 
> to point the
> mail-gid to 100.
> 
> The GID being mentioned is the Group ID of the MTA (in this 
> case 100) -
> not the GID of the Mailman user.  The GID of the MTA user is 
> needed, as
> it is the MTA user that is actually going to run the Mailman wrapper
> program (the program that is complaining).
> 
> As a security precaution only root, mailman, and the MTA can run the
> wrapper program.
> 
> > <mailman-request at lists.seaan.net>: Command died with status 2:
> >     "/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman". 
> Command output:
> > Failure
> >     to exec script. WANTED gid 500, GOT gid 100.  
> (Reconfigure to take 100?)
> > 
> > 
> > checking the /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman it is group 
> mailman user
> > mailman both gid 500 and uid 500. 
> > to be precise hte directory looks like this:
> > 
> > -rwxr-sr-x    1 mailman  mailman     38452 Oct  7 15:06 mailman
> > 
> > 
> > What am I doing wrong?
> > 
> 
> Not reading the FAQ
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: 
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Good Luck - Jon Carnes



From barbara at sprog.auc.dk  Tue Oct  8 11:20:00 2002
From: barbara at sprog.auc.dk (Barbara Johansen)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:20:00 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Exim4
In-Reply-To: <1033972566.3da12b564e254@imp2.brijn.nu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10210081110290.8320-100000@hercules.humfak.auc.dk>

> Does somebody know a similar explanation as now in the docs for
> Exim3 for Exim4?

This is not an How-To but an How-we-do our exim.conf:
Our system: Mailman-2.0.13, Exim-4.05, SunOS 5.8, virtuel domains,

# In global section:

# Mailman opsaetning
MAILMAN_HOME=/pack/mailman
# user and group for Mailman
MAILMAN_UID=mailman
MAILMAN_GID=mailman

trusted_users = mailman

# In the router configuration part of exim.conf

# First 2 routers rewrite list-owner or owner-list to list-admin
# This is only done if the list exists.
# List existence checks are done by seeing if the file
# MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
# exists.  

list_mailmanowner_router:
   driver = redirect
   qualify_preserve_domain
   local_part_suffix = "-owner"
   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
   data = "${lc:$local_part}-admin@${domain}"

owner_mailmanlist_router:
   driver = redirect
   qualify_preserve_domain
   local_part_prefix = "owner-"
   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
   data = "${lc:$local_part}-admin@${domain}"

##
## Next 3 routers routes admin, request and list mail to the appropriate
## transport.  List existence is checked as above.

list_admin_director:
   driver = accept
   local_part_suffix = -admin
   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
   transport = list_admin_transport

list_request_director:
   driver = accept
   local_part_suffix = -request
   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
   transport = list_request_transport

list_director:
   driver = accept
   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/lists/$local_part/config.db
   transport = list_transport


# IN the transports section:

## Three transports for list mail, request mail and admin mail
## respectively

## Mailman is installed in MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/
## Mailman is configured to be invoked as user mailman
list_transport:
           driver = pipe
           command = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/mail/wrapper post ${lc:$local_part}
           current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           user = MAILMAN_UID
           group = MAILMAN_GID

list_request_transport:
           driver = pipe
           command = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/mail/wrapper mailcmd ${lc:$local_part}
           current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           user = MAILMAN_UID
           group = MAILMAN_GID

list_admin_transport:
           driver = pipe
           command = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain/mail/wrapper mailowner  ${lc:$local_part}
           current_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           home_directory = MAILMAN_HOME/$domain
           user = MAILMAN_UID
           group = MAILMAN_GID

..................................


HTH
Barbara

Barbara B. Johansen
Faculty of Humanities
Computing office
Aalborg University
Kroghstraede 3
DK 9220 Aalborg





From colin_neeson at mac.com  Tue Oct  8 13:39:14 2002
From: colin_neeson at mac.com (colin_neeson at mac.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:39:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1b3 gate_news cron problem Sparc/Linux 6.2
Message-ID: <9256DB5A-DAB2-11D6-B69D-00039398EC48@mac.com>

Hi All,

I'm a bit of a newbie in relation to Mailman and Python, but I have 
successfully installed Mailman 2.1b3 on a Sparc/Linux 6.2 (Zoot) box, 
and everything has been peachy until I try to gate mail to news and 
vice versa.

I configured the news server today (innd), and can successfully post 
and read news items I have sent to it.  When the cron job for gate_news 
runs, I get the following:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 270, in ?
     main()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 252, in main
     clearcache()
   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 107, in clearcache
     conn.quit()
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/nntplib.py", line 552, in quit
     resp = self.shortcmd('QUIT')
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/nntplib.py", line 247, in shortcmd
     self.putcmd(line)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/nntplib.py", line 187, in putcmd
     self.putline(line)
   File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/nntplib.py", line 182, in putline
     self.sock.sendall(line)
socket.error: (32, 'Broken pipe')

I've done a search on sourceforge and a quick search on the archives, 
but not a lot there in respect to this.  Could anyone offer a bit of a 
hand here?

Cheers,

-colin.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1331 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021008/a982c31f/attachment.bin 

From clawson at jungle.ca  Tue Oct  8 14:28:47 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 08:28:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <1034033230.3461.19.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <B9C847BF.2D3EF%clawson@jungle.ca>

on 10/7/02 7:27 PM, Jon Carnes aka jonc at nc.rr.com wrote:

> Hmmm, interesting error. Have you run ~mailman/bin/check_perms ?  Are
> the proper directories setup as Set-gid?  Have you run out of space on
> any of your volumes?

Another bit of wierdness. There are a ton of .msg and .db files piled up in
/var/spool/mailman/qfiles

Or is that normal?

I take it that means the messages aren't getting sent out at all. Where is
the log that logs the fact that no queued messages are being delivered.

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson
clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca




From Jeremy at lr3.com  Tue Oct  8 14:46:25 2002
From: Jeremy at lr3.com (Jeremy Summers)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:46:25 -0400 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with email addresses in 2.1b3...
Message-ID: <6720F68918F6D411949B00B0D011BD20459027@mail.mail.lr3_corp.com>

It looks to me like you don't have the hostname properly set on either your
mail server.  On Red Hat, the config file is found in /etc/hosts.

Jeremy Summers

-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Sieb [mailto:ges+lists at wingfoot.org]
Sent: Sunday, October 06, 2002 9:52 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with email addresses in 2.1b3...


Here's the email result of a newlist command: Note it says 
"localhost.wingfoot.org" where it *should* say "lists.wingfoot.org"

I have :
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.wingfoot.org'

In my mm_cfg.py .. Postfix is my MTA. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing 
wrong here or point me in the right direction? :-/

Thanks!
Glenn

Delivered-To: ges at wingfoot.org
Subject: Your new mailing list: test4
From: mailman-admin at wingfoot.org
To: ges at wingfoot.org
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 21:37:30 -0400
X-BeenThere: test4 at localhost.wingfoot.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1b3
List-Id: <test4.localhost.wingfoot.org>
Sender: test4-bounces at wingfoot.org

The mailing list `test4' has just been created for you.  The following
is some basic information about your mailing list.

Your mailing list password is:

     xxxx

You need this password to configure your mailing list.  You also need
it to handle administrative requests, such as approving mail if you
choose to run a moderated list.

You can configure your mailing list at the following web page:

     https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/admin/test4

The web page for users of your mailing list is:

     https://www.wingfoot.org/mailman/listinfo/test4

You can even customize these web pages from the list configuration
page.  However, you do need to know HTML to be able to do this.

There is also an email-based interface for users (not administrators)
of your list; you can get info about using it by sending a message
with just the word `help' as subject or in the body, to:

     test4-request at localhost.wingfoot.org

To unsubscribe a user: from the mailing list 'listinfo' web page,
click on or enter the user's email address as if you were that user.
Where that user would put in their password to unsubscribe, put in
your admin password.  You can also use your password to change
member's options, including digestification, delivery disabling, etc.

Please address all questions to mailman-admin at localhost.wingfoot.org.

---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is
right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 20:01:07 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 08 Oct 2002 14:01:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <B9C7C456.2D3D8%clawson@jungle.ca>
References: <B9C7C456.2D3D8%clawson@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <1034100067.1639.43.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 23:08, Chris Lawson wrote:

> > Are the proper directories setup as Set-gid?
> 
> Um... a bit of a knowledge blind spot for me. The directory of a given
> private list archive is mailman.mailman.

In the INSTALL file for Mailman it details some setup directions:
  Make sure this directory is set to group `mailman' (or whatever
  you're going to specify as --with-ownergroup) and has the setgid
  bit set (but see README.BSD if you're on a BSD system).  You
  probably also want to guarantee that this directory is readable
  and executable by everyone.  For example, these shell commands
  will accomplish this:
      % cd $prefix   (cd /home/mailman)
      % chgrp mailman .
      % chmod a+rx,g+ws .

>
> But there are a couple of odd things in two public archive directories for
> lists created since I moved to the rpm version of Mailman.

I friggin hate the RPM versions of Mailman.  You might simply want to
install from source and see if everything works after that...

> 
> The public archive directories (which seem to be soft links to private
> archive directories) for these two lists are flashing white with a red
> background, when I look at them (using 'ls'). That usually means there's a
> permission or a linking problem. But they, like the non-flashing
> directories, are root.mailman

I'm guessing that the links point to directories that no longer exist
(or never existed). Why not recreate those directories?
> 
> >  Have you run out of space on any of your volumes?
> 
> I'm close, but /var has 9mb left and that's as close as I come to full.

9mb?!?  That's not a lot of free space... I personally would worry about
that.  Check your log files and see if you can't delete some - so you
can reclaim more space.





From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Tue Oct  8 20:01:40 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Tue, 08 Oct 2002 11:01:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qfiles constipation
Message-ID: <136130000.1034100100@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

I've had consistent problems with the mailman qfiles directory getting 
heavily backlogged (100-200 files stuck, sometimes for several hours) with 
several various 2.0.x versions of mailman.  The qrunner log shows lines 
like so:

Oct 08 10:03:01 2002 (92546) Could not acquire qrunner lock
Oct 08 10:09:02 2002 (93469) Could not acquire qrunner lock

I'm able to clear the backlog by killing off the currently running qrunner 
processes and removing the lock files in the locks directory.  I've written 
a small Perl script to check the qfiles directory for a backlog and take 
the necessary measures every so often, but that's a bit of a hackish 
solution, I'd say.  Besides the fact that it causes a pretty big burst of 
email to be sent all at once, which some users consider unpleasant.

I'm currently running mailman 2.0.12 (not built from ports) on FreeBSD 
4.6-STABLE, with the qrunner running every 3 minutes.

I see Chris Lawson reported the same problem yesterday.  Anyone else having 
this problem with bursty (around 2-3 emails per minute at peak) high volume 
lists?  Anyone else figure out a solution?  Any mailman developers have any 
input on this?  Perhaps qrunner could be throttled to not attempt to 
process more than N files per run?

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311



From listmail at gearyweb.com  Tue Oct  8 20:14:26 2002
From: listmail at gearyweb.com (Michael Geary)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 12:14:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner permission errors
In-Reply-To: <15778.18312.981711.250611@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com>

Hi Folks,

I'm on the tail end of migrating my mail server & lists from one OS X 
machine to another. Everything has gone reasonably fine, except my 
qrunner cron job. I am getting the following email every minute:

"shell-init: could not get current directory: getcwd: cannot access 
parent directories: Permission denied"

I have checked the permissions with mailman/bin/check_perms and I get 
no errors.

Can anyone offer me some insights?

Thanks,

michael

-----------------------------------------------
michael geary
The Treeline Group, Inc.
560 S. State Street, E-2
Orem, UT 84058

(801) 225-1414 x 1002
http://www.treelinegroup.com




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct  8 20:14:58 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 08 Oct 2002 14:14:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <B9C847BF.2D3EF%clawson@jungle.ca>
References: <B9C847BF.2D3EF%clawson@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <1034100899.1639.55.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Tue, 2002-10-08 at 08:28, Chris Lawson wrote:
> 
> Another bit of wierdness. There are a ton of .msg and .db files piled up in
> /var/spool/mailman/qfiles
> 
> Or is that normal?

Not normal.  You might try running qrunner by hand and see what happens:
  su mailman
  /usr/bin/python -S ~mailman/cron/qrunner


> 
> I take it that means the messages aren't getting sent out at all. Where is
> the log that logs the fact that no queued messages are being delivered.
> 
Malman logs are in ~mailman/logs/..

Good Luck




From patrick at armage.org  Wed Oct  9 03:14:39 2002
From: patrick at armage.org (Patrick)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 03:14:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of lists - suspicious header
Message-ID: <20021009011439.GB22815@armage.org>

Hello,

I'm using mailman 2.0.11Woody on my debian.

I have a problem to have list of lists works correctly.

I have a 'test' list which is subscribed to a 'general' list. 
When I post a mail to 'test', it's ok.
When I post a mail to 'general', 'general' receives it and distributes 
to all its members. Then 'test' receives it. But 'test' always holds the
mail because of "suspicious header".

I don't know what to do. I have no indication of what is wrong with
the header, just that it's suspicious...

I try a lot of options, docs reading, google and archives seearching but
didn't find any way to solve my problem.

I guess you will want more informations to help me but don't know what
kind of, so please ask, I will provide them.

Please help,

-- 
Patrick



From ms at probsd.org  Wed Oct  9 03:39:52 2002
From: ms at probsd.org (Michael Sharp)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:39:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail errors
Message-ID: <1094.192.168.1.1.1034127592.squirrel@webmail.probsd.org>

I have my httpd.conf  configured as such for pipermail:

Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
    <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
        Options Indexes FollowSymlinks MultiViews
        AllowOverride None
        Order allow,deny
        Allow from all
    </Directory>

/usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms  shows NO permission errors. Apache has
been restarted since the changes were made. Other than that, all works
fine, except http://domain.com/pipermail/<listname>   shows a 404 Error
Not Found.

Any ideas?

Michael






From patrick at armage.org  Wed Oct  9 04:01:38 2002
From: patrick at armage.org (Patrick)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 04:01:38 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail errors
In-Reply-To: <1094.192.168.1.1.1034127592.squirrel@webmail.probsd.org>
References: <1094.192.168.1.1.1034127592.squirrel@webmail.probsd.org>
Message-ID: <20021009020138.GA23436@armage.org>

Le 08 octobre 2002 a 21:39, Michael Sharp ?crivait:
 
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms  shows NO permission errors. Apache has
> been restarted since the changes were made. Other than that, all works
> fine, except http://domain.com/pipermail/<listname>   shows a 404 Error
> Not Found.

Have some mails already been sent ? If no mail have been posted, then
there will be no archive file.
And I don't remember at which time the scheduler creates the archive but
it may be only one time a day, ... so be patient :)

-- 
Patrick



From wwalker at bybent.com  Wed Oct  9 04:31:25 2002
From: wwalker at bybent.com (Wayne Walker)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 21:31:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman getting behind (qfiles)
Message-ID: <20021009023125.GF31653@bybent.com>

The qfiles directory has 160 files (80 each of .db, .msg).

How do I get it to process them faster (machine is 99% idle, connection
to the net is multiple OC-192...)

Defaults.py:

QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300

So, this thing sits for 15 minutes and reduces the qfiles dir (180 to
118 in 15 minutes).  Any ideas why it would take longer than that?

Should I set sendmail to always queue messages so that the qfiles
empties fast and then rerun the queue in sendmail more often?

-- 

Wayne Walker



From clawson at jungle.ca  Wed Oct  9 06:37:44 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 00:37:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <1034100067.1639.43.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <B9C92AD8.2D4B3%clawson@jungle.ca>

on 10/8/02 2:01 PM, Jon Carnes aka jonc at nc.rr.com wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-10-07 at 23:08, Chris Lawson wrote:
> 
>>> Are the proper directories setup as Set-gid?
>> 
>> Um... a bit of a knowledge blind spot for me. The directory of a given
>> private list archive is mailman.mailman.
> 
> In the INSTALL file for Mailman it details some setup directions:
> Make sure this directory is set to group `mailman' (or whatever
> you're going to specify as --with-ownergroup) and has the setgid
> bit set (but see README.BSD if you're on a BSD system).  You
> probably also want to guarantee that this directory is readable
> and executable by everyone.  For example, these shell commands
> will accomplish this:
>     % cd $prefix   (cd /home/mailman)
>     % chgrp mailman .
>     % chmod a+rx,g+ws .

Okay. Did that.

> I friggin hate the RPM versions of Mailman.  You might simply want to
> install from source and see if everything works after that...

Okay. I did that. Most things seem to work.

I still seem to be getting this odd error with the request.db

Oct 09 00:36:27 2002 admin(8367):
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
admin(8367): [----- Mailman Version: 2.0.13 -----]
admin(8367): [----- Traceback ------]
admin(8367): Traceback (innermost last):
admin(8367):   File "/home/mailman/scripts/driver", line 96, in run_main
admin(8367):     main()
admin(8367):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 118, in
main
admin(8367):     mlist.Save()
admin(8367):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 860, in Save
admin(8367):     self.SaveRequestsDb()
admin(8367):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 93, in
SaveRequestsDb
admin(8367):     self.__closedb()
admin(8367):   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 80, in
__closedb
admin(8367):     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
admin(8367): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/home/mailman/lists/test/request.db'

>>>  Have you run out of space on any of your volumes?
>> 
>> I'm close, but /var has 9mb left and that's as close as I come to full.
> 
> 9mb?!?  That's not a lot of free space... I personally would worry about
> that.  Check your log files and see if you can't delete some - so you
> can reclaim more space.

I cleared a bunch of space. There's now 135M free.

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson
clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca




From barbara at sprog.auc.dk  Wed Oct  9 09:05:09 2002
From: barbara at sprog.auc.dk (Barbara Johansen)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:05:09 +0200 (MET DST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail errors
In-Reply-To: <1094.192.168.1.1.1034127592.squirrel@webmail.probsd.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.10.10210090903030.8320-100000@hercules.humfak.auc.dk>

Did you setup the cronjobs?

On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Michael Sharp wrote:

> I have my httpd.conf  configured as such for pipermail:
> 
> Alias /pipermail/ "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
>     <Directory "/usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
>         Options Indexes FollowSymlinks MultiViews
>         AllowOverride None
>         Order allow,deny
>         Allow from all
>     </Directory>
> 
> /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms  shows NO permission errors. Apache has
> been restarted since the changes were made. Other than that, all works
> fine, except http://domain.com/pipermail/<listname>   shows a 404 Error
> Not Found.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Michael
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 

mvh
Barbara

Barbara B. Johansen
Faculty of Humanities
Computing office
Aalborg University
Kroghstraede 3
DK 9220 Aalborg




From heitbrockd at schlick.de  Wed Oct  9 09:11:09 2002
From: heitbrockd at schlick.de (Denis Heitbrock)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 09:11:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] save and restore newsletter (dbs)
Message-ID: <003701c26f63$0bfa8c90$c65a18ac@ws90198>

hi,

how can i save and restore the newsletter (dbs) after my system crashed?


regards,

Denis Heitbrock




From thetraveller at canada.com  Wed Oct  9 10:14:47 2002
From: thetraveller at canada.com (The Traveller)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 01:14:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access admin area
Message-ID: <B9C93387.766A%thetraveller@canada.com>

Hi:

I have set up mailman (2.0.10 on FreeBSD) and have been using it for several
weeks now without problems.

I have a list that has approximately 50,000 subscribers which I am moving
from one list provider to my local list.

All was going very well until I tried to import users using the mass
subscribe feature. I got thru about 4,000 then I no longer have access to
the admin area for this list (all other lists are not affected). When I try
I get  the following error (after a very long wait):


Server Error

The following error occurred:

The server closed the connection while reading the response.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please contact the administrator.


Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Wed Oct  9 10:19:22 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 01:19:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password frustration - 2.1b3
References: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com>
Message-ID: <3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com>

Barry hit the nail on the head regarding python2-devel being needed for RedHat
users. I installed that package and 2.1b3 compiled in just a few minutes, and
ran the first time. (Well, at least I can get to the admin interface.)

I went to setup a new list, ran newlist from the mailman/bin collection, and was
immediately able to connect to setup the normal minimal things. It accepted the
list password and the site password without problem, the frustration was how
often it accepted them. I would make a change, hit submit, and it wanted my
password to get back to the page. I click to another page, it wanted my
password. Make a change there, it wanted my password. This from the same
installation of Netscape 4.78 that has long been my default browser. It is not a
problem for Opera 6.05 or MSIE.

Okay, now I have sent the first test message, and it is returned to me with this
text:

Final-Recipient: rfc822; test at virtuoso.domainvanhorn.com
Action: failed
Status: 5.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 1:
    "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"

What does that mean?

Van


--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From ler at lerctr.org  Wed Oct  9 10:37:17 2002
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 03:37:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password frustration - 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com>
References: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com> 
	<3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <1034152637.382.8.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 03:19, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
> 
> Okay, now I have sent the first test message, and it is returned to me with this
> text:
> 
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; test at virtuoso.domainvanhorn.com
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.0.0
> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Command died with status 1:
>     "/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
> 
> What does that mean?
your post command didn't work.  The alias translated to a program, and
that program exited with a status 1. 

Check the mailman logs to see what it didn't like.

My suspicion is a permissions issue. 

LER

> 
> Van
> 
> 
> --
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
> on a theme delivered every morning.
> Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
> mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD
> 
> For web hosting and maintenance,
> visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Wed Oct  9 11:33:02 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 02:33:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password frustration - 2.1b3
References: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com> 
		<3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com> <1034152637.382.8.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <3DA3F7CE.FD290176@whidbey.com>

Well, at the time I had a permissions issue. So I chowned the whole tree to
mailman:mailman, and went back and did "config.status" and "make install" to ratify
it. Then I did a couple of other little things I had overlooked in the INSTALL file.
Nothing is being logged in the mailman/logs to speak of, certainly none of my test
messages.

I discovered from the /var/log/maillog file that I had a problem with my aliases, and
came to figure out that I was editing /etc/postfix/aliases but newaliases was using
the /etc/aliases file to create an aliases.db file I now have added all the correct
aliases (from bin/genaliases) to the /etc/aliases file, run newaliases, and just in
case, copied both to /etc/postfix/.

Here's the maillog tail from my last attempt to post:


     Oct  9 02:25:41 virtuoso postfix/smtpd[1487]: 8702E2D7B2:
     client=mailout.whidbey.net[209.166.64.124]
     Oct  9 02:25:41 virtuoso postfix/cleanup[1488]: 8702E2D7B2:
     message-id=<3DA3F63C.6D2DCC90 at whidbey.com>
     Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/smtpd[1487]: disconnect from
     mailout.whidbey.net[209.166.64.124]
     Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: 8702E2D7B2:
     from=<vanhorn at whidbey.com>, size=1258, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
     Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/local[1490]: fatal: open database
     /etc/postfix/aliases.db: Invalid argument
     Oct  9 02:25:43 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: warning: premature end-of-input
     from private/local socket while reading input attribute name
     Oct  9 02:25:43 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: warning: private/local socket:
     malformed response
     Oct  9 02:25:43 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: warning: transport local failure
     -- see a previous warning/fatal/panic logfile record for the problem
     description
     Oct  9 02:25:43 virtuoso postfix/master[823]: warning: process
     /usr/libexec/postfix/local pid 1490 exit status 1
     Oct  9 02:25:43 virtuoso postfix/master[823]: warning:
     /usr/libexec/postfix/local: bad command startup -- throttling

Incidentally, this message has not been bounced.

I have to get on a plane in a few hours, and would like not to leave the system in
this state for the next week!

Van



--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021009/5e7b3b7f/attachment.htm 

From ler at lerctr.org  Wed Oct  9 11:53:16 2002
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 04:53:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password frustration - 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <3DA3F7CE.FD290176@whidbey.com>
References: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com> 
	<3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com>
	<1034152637.382.8.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org> 
	<3DA3F7CE.FD290176@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <1034157196.399.4.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 04:33, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:

> I discovered from the /var/log/maillog file that I had a problem with my aliases, and
> came to figure out that I was editing /etc/postfix/aliases but newaliases was using
> the /etc/aliases file to create an aliases.db file I now have added all the correct
> aliases (from bin/genaliases) to the /etc/aliases file, run newaliases, and just in
> case, copied both to /etc/postfix/.
[snip]
> 

>      Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: 8702E2D7B2:
>      from=<vanhorn at whidbey.com>, size=1258, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>      Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/local[1490]: fatal: open database
>      /etc/postfix/aliases.db: Invalid argument
This looks like a DB version mismatch... (I'm not a postfix guy)...

> Incidentally, this message has not been bounced.
> 
> I have to get on a plane in a few hours, and would like not to leave the system in
> this state for the next week!
Understand that one.  I'd check the makemap version and postfix version
for what DB (DBM) they are using.  Somethings not matched right.


LER

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749




From mailman at tux.org  Wed Oct  9 12:17:09 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 06:17:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman getting behind (qfiles)
In-Reply-To: <20021009023125.GF31653@bybent.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210090604270.26729-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Wayne Walker wrote:

> QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
> QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
>
> So, this thing sits for 15 minutes and reduces the qfiles dir (180 to
> 118 in 15 minutes).  Any ideas why it would take longer than that?

Is it the same messages always sitting around, or a different bunch
every time?  Also, are you positive that it takes the full 15 minutes
for qrunner to reduce the queue, or does it perhaps do what it is
going to do very quickly, and then bogs down?  Finally, does your
qrunner log show anything that might help?

The only time I have had a Mailman queue backlog is when there was a
bad  message in the queue.  I moved it aside, and the rest cleared out
in good time.  The qrunner log was very clear about the problem; one
look there, and you may have your answer right away.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Wed Oct  9 13:06:54 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 04:06:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Install frustration - 2.1b3
References: <C7BBC79C-DAE9-11D6-80D8-003065B85DAA@gearyweb.com> 
		<3DA3E68A.3F06721C@whidbey.com>
		<1034152637.382.8.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org> 
		<3DA3F7CE.FD290176@whidbey.com> <1034157196.399.4.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <3DA40DCE.926A82FF@whidbey.com>

Alls well that ends ...

I cured the problem, finally, by deleting all the aliases in my virtual domain setup, which
I had created following one of the explanations in the README.POSTFIX file. Of course I was
then running Mailman 2.0.13.

If anyone has a better checklist of things to do to setup "postfix virtual domains", please
post here and possibly send it to roadstar at verbose.twistedhistory.com - the address I'll be
checking for the next week while I'm out of town.

Van

Larry Rosenman wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 04:33, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:
>
> > I discovered from the /var/log/maillog file that I had a problem with my aliases, and
> > came to figure out that I was editing /etc/postfix/aliases but newaliases was using
> > the /etc/aliases file to create an aliases.db file I now have added all the correct
> > aliases (from bin/genaliases) to the /etc/aliases file, run newaliases, and just in
> > case, copied both to /etc/postfix/.
> [snip]
> >
>
> >      Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/qmgr[841]: 8702E2D7B2:
> >      from=<vanhorn at whidbey.com>, size=1258, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> >      Oct  9 02:25:42 virtuoso postfix/local[1490]: fatal: open database
> >      /etc/postfix/aliases.db: Invalid argument
> This looks like a DB version mismatch... (I'm not a postfix guy)...
>
> > Incidentally, this message has not been bounced.
> >
> > I have to get on a plane in a few hours, and would like not to leave the system in
> > this state for the next week!
> Understand that one.  I'd check the makemap version and postfix version
> for what DB (DBM) they are using.  Somethings not matched right.
>
> LER
>
> --
> Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
> Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
> US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From greg at gregwestin.com  Wed Oct  9 13:07:31 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 07:07:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mass subscribing users WITH real names
In-Reply-To: <3DA3DEE1.23264AD0@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4E7ABC99-DB77-11D6-932D-003065C03184@gregwestin.com>

I believe Mailman will accept a number of different conventions for 
entering real names, but it makes no distinction between 'first' and 
'last' names.  For example:

Will-Main <willmaine at yahoo.com>
Main, Will (willmaine at yahoo.com)
"Will Main" <willmaine at yahoo.com>

To quote a message from Barry, found by searching the archives of this 
list,

---
Actually, any format recognized by email.Utils.parseaddr() is
acceptable:

http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/module-email.Utils.html

so

Anne Person <aperson at example.com>
"Brian D. Ude" <bdude at example.com>
---

I hope that answers your question.

Greg

On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 03:46  AM, Will-Maine wrote:

> Greg Westin-
> What is the format of the REAL NAME parameter when you mass
> subscribe users?   I don't see any description in the
> manuals.  Appreciate any guidance you can provide.
>
> yahoogroups uses "user at domain First LastName" as the input
> format for mass subscriptions.  What about mailman?
> -will
>
>
> Wed, 25 Sep 2002 07:15:38 -0400
>
>       Previous message: [Mailman-Users] Real Names
>       Next message: [Mailman-Users] OverflowError: mktime
> argument out of range
>       Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [
> author ]
>
>
>
> There is in 2.1b3.  You can specify it either when mass
> subscribing
> names, or later with the membership interface.
>
> Greg
>
> On Wednesday, September 25, 2002, at 04:56  AM, Ian Holder
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Is there anyway to specify the real names of subscribed
> e-mail users?
>>
>> ie: When you access a list of subscribers it just shows
> "john at
>> doe.com",
>> is there anyway to specify the subscribers real name next
> to the e-mail
>> address?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>




From goebel at emunix.emich.edu  Wed Oct  9 14:24:01 2002
From: goebel at emunix.emich.edu (Matt Goebel)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:24:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about disabling due to bouncing notification...
Message-ID: <200210091224.g99CO1J18703@emunix.emich.edu>


Hello,

  Running Mailman 2.0.13 on Tru64 4.0G with sendmail 8.11.6 and have 
hopefully a simple question.

  I've had a couple of list owners complain that when their users
(mostly on yahoo.com or hotmail.com) are disable because of bouncing,
they - the list owners - are not notified by email.  Does this 
feature work consistantly?  One of my list admins seems to be 
paranoid that someone is changing their list subscribers 
settings, and that this has nothing to do with bouncing...

Thanks,
Mattias

-- 
Matthew Goebel : goebel at emunix.emich.edu : Unix Jockey @ EMU : Hail Eris
Neo-Student, Net Lurker, Donut consumer, and procrastinating Furry Fan.
 "Always with the negative waves, Moriarty" - Oddball
 "Comfort the troubled, and trouble the comfortable." - Dietrich Bonhoeffer



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  9 17:03:13 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 11:03:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <B9C92AD8.2D4B3%clawson@jungle.ca>
References: <B9C92AD8.2D4B3%clawson@jungle.ca>
Message-ID: <1034175794.1635.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 00:37, Chris Lawson wrote:
> admin(8367):     fp = open(self.__filename, 'w')
> admin(8367): IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
> '/home/mailman/lists/test/request.db'
> 

Just to remove any thought of rights issues, how about setting the
rights to that file so that it is read/writable to all.

The current rights should look like this: 
   -rw-rw-r--   mailman   mailman

To set the file so that it is world writable:
   chmod a+w request.db

If it is still giving you problems, then it is not a rights issue (at
least not a file rights issue).

What OS are you using?  Are you on a BSD system?
Check /etc/passwd and make sure that the UID for mailman is unique.
Check /etc/group and make sure that the GID for mailman is unique.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes 





From mailman at tux.org  Wed Oct  9 17:11:47 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about disabling due to bouncing
 notification...
In-Reply-To: <200210091224.g99CO1J18703@emunix.emich.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210091102220.21574-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Matt Goebel wrote:

>   Running Mailman 2.0.13 on Tru64 4.0G with sendmail 8.11.6 and
> have  hopefully a simple question.
>
>   I've had a couple of list owners complain that when their users
> (mostly on yahoo.com or hotmail.com) are disable because of
> bouncing, they - the list owners - are not notified by email.  Does
> this feature work consistently?

What is the setting for "Action when critical or excessive bounces
are detected" for those lists?  When you ask "Does this feature work
consistently?" are you saying that it is set to "Disable and notify
me" and that sometimes the notice does not go out?  If it is set to
"Disable and DON'T notify me" -for those lists- then you have your
answer.  If it -is- set to send the notices, is it possible that the
notices go out but do not make it very far?  i.e., can your Mailman
and/or MTA logs shed any light on whether or not the notices actually
are sent but perhaps are not able to be delivered?

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  9 17:13:33 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 11:13:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to access admin area
In-Reply-To: <B9C93387.766A%thetraveller@canada.com>
References: <B9C93387.766A%thetraveller@canada.com>
Message-ID: <1034176414.1635.17.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Check to see if the configuration file was corrupted:
  ~mailman/bin/check_db ~mailman/lists/<listname>/config.db

If not, see if you can access the configuration via the command line:
  ~mailman/bin/list_members
  ~mailman/bin/add_members

Some larger lists take too long to load on slower servers, so the
maintenance has to be done via the command line.  There are several
work-arounds for this.  My favorite is to put aside a small part of the
RAM as a drive and then to mount that RAM drive over the list
configuration directory.  You have to take care to copy off the files to
another location that is really on disk.  Do it hourly and on shutdown,
then on startup load it back in.

An other clever variation on this is to create a small disk partition
the same size as the RAM drive and mount the two as a RAID 1 drive. The
RAM disk information will then automatically be taken care of my the OS.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
===
On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 04:14, The Traveller wrote:
> Hi:
> 
> I have set up mailman (2.0.10 on FreeBSD) and have been using it for several
> weeks now without problems.
> 
> I have a list that has approximately 50,000 subscribers which I am moving
> from one list provider to my local list.
> 
> All was going very well until I tried to import users using the mass
> subscribe feature. I got thru about 4,000 then I no longer have access to
> the admin area for this list (all other lists are not affected). When I try
> I get  the following error (after a very long wait):
> 
> 
> Server Error
> 
> The following error occurred:
> 
> The server closed the connection while reading the response.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please contact the administrator.
> 
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  9 17:17:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 11:17:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman getting behind (qfiles)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210090604270.26729-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210090604270.26729-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
Message-ID: <1034176672.1639.21.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 06:17, mailman at tux.org wrote:
> On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Wayne Walker wrote:
> 
> > QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
> > QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
> >
> > So, this thing sits for 15 minutes and reduces the qfiles dir (180 to
> > 118 in 15 minutes).  Any ideas why it would take longer than that?
> 
> Is it the same messages always sitting around, or a different bunch
> every time?  Also, are you positive that it takes the full 15 minutes
> for qrunner to reduce the queue, or does it perhaps do what it is
> going to do very quickly, and then bogs down?  Finally, does your
> qrunner log show anything that might help?
> 
> The only time I have had a Mailman queue backlog is when there was a
> bad  message in the queue.  I moved it aside, and the rest cleared out
> in good time.  The qrunner log was very clear about the problem; one
> look there, and you may have your answer right away.
> 
> - Andrew
> 
I agree with Andrew, but want to add that you should run a caching named
server on this box. The processing of your mail will speed up
dramatically.  Also, you should switch to Postfix for the MTA as it does
a better job of handling undeliverable mail (to sites that have
unreliable mail servers and poorly setup secondaries).

- Jon Carnes




From wash at wananchi.com  Wed Oct  9 17:22:18 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 18:22:18 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1b3 Language Choice - Bug???
Message-ID: <20021009152218.GB88832@ns2.wananchi.com>

I am running 2.1b3 on a production box. I created a list and made the
default language FRENCH. Later I changed my mind and disabled all
languages except ENGLISH only. Howevere, when this list sends notices
to the moderator, it sends them in French. This language is not available
to the moderator at all as I disabled it. Why is it so???



        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post



From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Wed Oct  9 17:39:44 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:39:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cached Name server - How does it speed up things?
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

Does a cached name server have to be on the exact same machine as mailman?
Or can I add it to another machine on my network? I'm thinking that if it's
on the same subnet as my mailman machine would the performance increase be
negligable if I installed a cache nameserver on the same machine as
mailman?? This is just questions, and over the last few weeks, I think it's
pretty obvious that postfix seems to be the MTA of choice, so how to I
transfer all my aliases over?

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2184 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021009/8086e415/attachment.bin 

From dan at ssc.com  Wed Oct  9 17:38:17 2002
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 08:38:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cached Name server - How does it speed up things?
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20021009083817.B26286@ssc.com>

On Wed, Oct 09, 2002 at 04:39:44PM +0100, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> Does a cached name server have to be on the exact same machine as mailman?

No.

> Or can I add it to another machine on my network? I'm thinking that if it's
> on the same subnet as my mailman machine would the performance increase be
> negligable if I installed a cache nameserver on the same machine as
> mailman?? This is just questions, and over the last few weeks, I think it's

Most likely.

> pretty obvious that postfix seems to be the MTA of choice, so how to I
> transfer all my aliases over?

>From your headers I would guess you're now running sendmail.

If so, and if your aliases are in /etc/aliases, after setting
up postfix, run

postalias /etc/aliases

Have a look at /etc/postfix/main.cf, looking for the alias_maps
parameter.  On our list server, this looks like:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases
             hash:/etc/aliases.d/mailman
         
because I find it convenient to keep our mailman aliases in a
separate file.  After changing that,

postalias /etc/aliases.d/mailman

Some distributions may place Postfix's default alias file in
/etc/postfix/aliases.  If so, you can either copy your aliases
file, or change the alias_maps parameter.

-- 
Dan Wilder



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct  9 18:12:43 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 09:12:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cached Name server - How does it speed up things? 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Angel Gabriel" <badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk> 
   of "Wed, 09 Oct 2002 16:39:44 BST." <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk> 
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk> 
Message-ID: <25627.1034179963@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:39:44 +0100 
Angel Gabriel <badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk> wrote:

> Does a cached name server have to be on the exact same machine as
> mailman?  

No, but you lose most of the benefits if its not.

> I think it's pretty obvious that postfix seems to be the MTA of
> choice...

Postfix and Exim have (surprisingly) similar performance curves.  I
readily recommend either in large load cases.

> so how to I transfer all my aliases over?

That depends on how you configure your MTA.  Simplest is to keep your
system and Mailman alias lists separate.  Under postfix that just means
that you declare two alias maps

  alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases
  alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/var/lib/mailman/data/aliases

Under Exim its a bit easier as you don't actually need any aliases at
all if you follow the HOW-TO.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From clawson at jungle.ca  Wed Oct  9 19:03:31 2002
From: clawson at jungle.ca (Chris Lawson)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 13:03:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner lock
In-Reply-To: <1034175794.1635.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <B9C9D9A3.841F%clawson@jungle.ca>

on 10/9/02 11:03 AM, Jon Carnes at jonc at nc.rr.com typed:

> Just to remove any thought of rights issues, how about setting the
> rights to that file so that it is read/writable to all.
> 
> The current rights should look like this:
>  -rw-rw-r--   mailman   mailman

They do now. But they didn't. They were...

-rw-r--r--    1 root     mailman      1377 Oct  8 23:47 request.db

...which I take to be a problem.

I changed them to mailman.mailman group read and write and the error
messages went away.

These are lists that were created and/or modified during my ill-fated
flirtation  with the rpm version of mailman. I tarred them to another
directory, uninstalled the  rpm version, deleted the residual directories,
and copied the lists back after I had reinstalled mailman from the source
distribution.

I assume that somewhere along that tortured path I or RedHat's rpm messed up
the permissions.

> To set the file so that it is world writable:
>  chmod a+w request.db

Maybe I don't need to do that?

> What OS are you using?  Are you on a BSD system?

No. It's RedHat Linux 7.0.

> Check /etc/passwd and make sure that the UID for mailman is unique.

It is.

> Check /etc/group and make sure that the GID for mailman is unique.

It is.

cmkl
-- 
Chris Lawson, clawson at jungle.ca
http://www.jungle.ca
Ottawa Ontario




From subscribe at mcknight.uk.net  Wed Oct  9 19:16:50 2002
From: subscribe at mcknight.uk.net (Stuart)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:16:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix/mailman/aix/newlist probs
Message-ID: <B9CA2312.9D3D%subscribe@mcknight.uk.net>

OK, this is annoying me now.....many years ago in a distant galaxy I
installed Mailman 2 with Postfix and set up two mailing lists, which ran
quite happily.

Today I add another mailing list, using the newlist command and take the
alias lines and add them to the rest. Run postalias as before and reload
postfix. Test the new mailing list alias and they bounce:

<quixotesolutions-request at mcknight.uk.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd quixotesolutions". Command
output:
    Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 54, GOT gid -2.  (Reconfigure to take
    -2?)

Thinking it's a total bosh, I try the existing mailing lists and they work
fine.....

The web admin interface for ALL three mailing lists works fine.....

Here's the alias entries first and last:

## bobtalk mailing list
## created: 08-Apr-2002 root
bobtalk:                 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post bobtalk"
bobtalk-admin:           "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
bobtalk"
bobtalk-request:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd bobtalk"
bobtalk-owner:           bobtalk-admin

<snip>

## quixotesolutions mailing list
## created: 09-Oct-2002 root
quixotesolutions:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-owner:  quixotesolutions-admin


Running the Mailman check_perms command says everything okay...

Ho hum....anybody been as dumb as me lately and done the same thing..?!

Regards to all

Stuart




From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Wed Oct  9 19:19:21 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:19:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman getting behind (qfiles)
In-Reply-To: <1034176672.1639.21.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210090604270.26729-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
 <1034176672.1639.21.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <178560000.1034183961@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

Same problems for me, and I am running a caching-only named on the box, 
with Exim.
The only item in my qrunner log other than complaining about not being able 
to acquire a lock is newsyslog turning the log file over...
Has anyone had luck in solving this problem through tuning the qrunner 
variables in Defaults.py?  Are there recommended settings for this based on 
how often qrunner runs?

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:17:52 -0400 Jon Carnes <jonc at nc.rr.com> 
wrote:

> On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 06:17, mailman at tux.org wrote:
>> On Tue, 8 Oct 2002, Wayne Walker wrote:
>>
>> > QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
>> > QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
>> >
>> > So, this thing sits for 15 minutes and reduces the qfiles dir (180 to
>> > 118 in 15 minutes).  Any ideas why it would take longer than that?
>>
>> Is it the same messages always sitting around, or a different bunch
>> every time?  Also, are you positive that it takes the full 15 minutes
>> for qrunner to reduce the queue, or does it perhaps do what it is
>> going to do very quickly, and then bogs down?  Finally, does your
>> qrunner log show anything that might help?
>>
>> The only time I have had a Mailman queue backlog is when there was a
>> bad  message in the queue.  I moved it aside, and the rest cleared out
>> in good time.  The qrunner log was very clear about the problem; one
>> look there, and you may have your answer right away.
>>
>> - Andrew
>>
> I agree with Andrew, but want to add that you should run a caching named
> server on this box. The processing of your mail will speed up
> dramatically.  Also, you should switch to Postfix for the MTA as it does
> a better job of handling undeliverable mail (to sites that have
> unreliable mail servers and poorly setup secondaries).
>
> - Jon Carnes
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct  9 19:31:08 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 09 Oct 2002 13:31:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cached Name server - How does it speed up
	things?
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIAEFHCIAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1034184669.1639.33.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 11:39, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> Does a cached name server have to be on the exact same machine as mailman?

Depends on how your MTA (Sendmail) is setup.  If it simply hands off all
incoming mail to another mailserver, then no.
If it actually tries to deliver the individual mailman messages, then
YES!

Note: it's not a requirement, but it really speeds up the processing of
mail to have the caching named on the local machine. 

> Or can I add it to another machine on my network? 

If you want to setup the local Sendmail install on your mailman list
server so that it simply forwards any outgoing mail to that machine,
then that will work fine.

IMHO, mail servers should *always* run a caching named server as well.

- Jon Carnes




From jason at shakabuku.org  Wed Oct  9 19:52:17 2002
From: jason at shakabuku.org (Jason Bodnar)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:52:17 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Make Mailman send confirmations from fully quallified hostname?
Message-ID: <20021009175217.M43809@shakabuku.org>

My regular mail is handled by mail.broadq.com. I've got an mx record for
lists.broadq.com pointing to the host running Mailman. In mm_cfg.py I have:

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'lists.broadq.com'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://www.broadq.com/cgi-bin/mailman/' 
MAILMAN_OWNER     = 'mailman-owner@%s' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME

I created a list called 'test'. When I subscribe from the web page for the
'test' list I get a confirmation email but the reply-to header is
'test-request at broadq.com' rather than 'test-request at lists.broadq.com'. How can
I make Mailman set the reply-to to the latter?

--
Jason Bodnar
jason at shakabuku.org
http://www.shakabuku.org




From patrick at armage.org  Wed Oct  9 20:57:09 2002
From: patrick at armage.org (Patrick)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:57:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] suspicious headers
Message-ID: <20021009185709.GM23436@armage.org>

Hello,

I have some real problem with mailman 2.0.11

I check 
require_explicit_destination : yes

and add
acceptable_aliases : myalias at armage\.org

(both with web interface)

then in my /etc/alias I add this line :
myalias: test at list.armage.org

do newaliases, try to send a mail at myalias at armage.org and... it is
holds because of a suspicious header !

Here are the "suspicious header" :

---------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <pmail at armage.org>
Delivered-To: test at list.armage.org
Received: by mail.armage.org (Postfix, from userid 1000)
id 87A8AAFC25; Wed,  9 Oct 2002 20:42:13 +0200 (CEST)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:42:13 +0200
From: Patrick <patrick at armage.org>
To: myalias at armage.org
Subject: test alias 2
Message-ID: <20021009184213.GL23436 at armage.org>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.28i
--------------------------------------------------------

Is there anything I can do ?

-- 
Patrick



From jchum at aismedia.com  Wed Oct  9 20:51:44 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:51:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email 3x
Message-ID: <01ad01c26fc4$ea0a1e40$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Mailman on the last email l sent out mailed users 3 copies of the email to
the entire list. I'm not why this started happening as we haven't changed
any settings, and I'm not sure where to start as to why this email was sent
out over a period of 3 days.

Any ideas or suggestions on what could be happening? I'm using it with
Sendmail if that helps.


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From pauljkiely at yahoo.com  Wed Oct  9 21:23:19 2002
From: pauljkiely at yahoo.com (Paul Kiely)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:23:19 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove a list with spaces
Message-ID: <20021009192319.685.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com>

i'm running mailman 2.0.11 on solaris.

how do i remove a list with spaces in the name?  i
tried enclosing the list in both single and double
quotes (which was suggested in the mailman-users
archive) but no luck.

can i just cd into /home/mailman/lists and just rm the
list directory manually?

any help is appreciated.

greate software, by the way...

-paul

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com



From dankopat at washburn.edu  Wed Oct  9 22:12:18 2002
From: dankopat at washburn.edu (danko patrick)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:12:18 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Configure Error - Can't Load Library
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.44.0210091506050.645610-100000@faculty.wuacc.edu>

I'm attempting an install of mailman 2.0.13 on AIX 5.1.  I'm using gcc
2.95.3.0, openssl 0.9.6.7, and python 2.1.1.0.  I'm getting the error
below when running a configure.  I checked to make sure all libraries
listed in the error are there and permissions are fine.  I'm by no means a
python guru.  Any assistance with this would be GREATLY appreciated.
Here's the configure...

./configure --prefix=/usr/local/pkg/mailman --with-cgi-gid=nobody


and here's the output....

checking for --with-python... no
checking for python... /usr/local/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... /usr/local/bin/python
checking Python version... 2.1.1
checking for a BSD compatible install... ./install-sh -c
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... yes
checking for true... /usr/bin/true
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for gcc... gcc
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (gcc  ) is a cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether gcc accepts -g... yes
checking whether #! works in shell scripts... yes
checking for --with-var-prefix... no
checking for --with-username... mailman
checking for mailman UID... 211
checking for --with-groupname... mailman
checking for mailman GID... 201
checking permissions on /usr/local/pkg/mailman... okay
checking for mail wrapper GID... 6
checking for CGI wrapper GID... -2
checking for CGI extensions... no
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "conftest.py", line 2, in ?
    from socket import *
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.1/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: from module /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so
Exec format error
can't load library:  /usr/local/lib/python2.1/lib-dynload/_socket.so
 /usr/local/lib/libssl.a libssl.so
 libssl.so
can't load library: /usr/local/lib/libssl.a
 /usr/local/lib/libssl.a


If anyone has any ideas please let me know.

thanks,

-Patrick




From greg at gregwestin.com  Wed Oct  9 22:24:11 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:24:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove a list with spaces
In-Reply-To: <20021009192319.685.qmail@web14903.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.44.0210091623160.1265-100000@westin>

Dear Paul,

I don't know if this would work or not, but have you tried something like:

rmlist -a list\ name\ with\ spaces

? Maybe that would work.

Greg

---
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com/
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php

On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Paul Kiely wrote:

> i'm running mailman 2.0.11 on solaris.
>
> how do i remove a list with spaces in the name?  i
> tried enclosing the list in both single and double
> quotes (which was suggested in the mailman-users
> archive) but no luck.
>
> can i just cd into /home/mailman/lists and just rm the
> list directory manually?
>
> any help is appreciated.
>
> greate software, by the way...
>
> -paul
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From jchum at aismedia.com  Wed Oct  9 23:12:12 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 17:12:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates
In-Reply-To: <01ad01c26fc4$ea0a1e40$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <01bc01c26fd8$8a0cd0f0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

I hate quoting myself, but I'm a bit frustrated with Mailman at the moment.
I've checked the logs/smtp just to make sure I was giving qrunner enough
time. Did some research on the archives of python and was not able to
determine what other possible causes.

The message ID was the exact ID in all 3 messages I received in my test
account. The time stamp was also the same on when the message was sent.

I'm not sure if the MTA duplicated or Mailman duplicated the message. Any
ideas?

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jonathan Chum
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:52 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email 3x


Mailman on the last email l sent out mailed users 3 copies of the email to
the entire list. I'm not why this started happening as we haven't changed
any settings, and I'm not sure where to start as to why this email was sent
out over a period of 3 days.

Any ideas or suggestions on what could be happening? I'm using it with
Sendmail if that helps.


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From fingers at fingers.co.za  Wed Oct  9 23:17:54 2002
From: fingers at fingers.co.za (fingers)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 23:17:54 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [resend] problems after bungled re-installs with daily admindb
 reminders (fwd)
Message-ID: <20021009231654.A59233-100000@snow.fingers.co.za>

Hi

I hate resending posts that are unanswered, 'cos it normally means nobody
can assist. I'm hoping perhaps someone could give me atleast a suggestion,
any takers? :)

Regards

--Rob

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2002 17:38:28 +0200 (SAST)
From: fingers <fingers at fingers.co.za>
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems after bungled re-installs with daily
    admindb reminders

hi there

i bungled an already working installation of mailman trying to install 2.x

everything is now working. except for 1 thing:

every day at the time specified in my cron, I get the:

1 <listname> admin request(s) waiting

mail for every single list I have running. I've trolled the directory
tree, but can't find anything obviously wrong.

the eventual process to re-install was:

nuke /path/to/mailman

install 2.x in /path/to/mailman

copy the archives and lists, from the backup, to the new installation.

I've tried doing a "submit all data" on the blank pages where mailman
seems to think there's a request waiting, to no avail.

any suggestions or pointers to somewhere to rtfm for this specifically
would be appreciated.

thanks

--Rob


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jforrester at usapowernet.com  Thu Oct 10 02:10:54 2002
From: jforrester at usapowernet.com (Jeff Forrester)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:10:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unadvertised Lists
Message-ID: <003801c26ff1$8fbe9ab0$6801a8c0@jeff>

Is there a way for an administrator to view unadvertised lists he has had created if he has forgotten the names of some of them, without having the sys admin to do a list_lists? I know how to view advertised lists by going to the listinfo directory, but I don't know how to view all lists (advertised and unadvertised). Is there a main administration area for the administrator to see all lists, advertisted and unadvertised, that he is administrator of?


Jeff Forrester
Vice-President
Lead Programmer/Web Developer
InterTechnics, Inc.
http://intertechnics.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021009/4ac64a37/attachment.htm 

From NtsElliot at netscape.net  Thu Oct 10 11:59:28 2002
From: NtsElliot at netscape.net (Elliot Kleiman)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 05:59:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What are digests?
Message-ID: <1D459E2E.26F11780.027B318E@netscape.net>

I am new to mailman and mailing lists. What is the digest feature? What is digesting?

Thanks,

Elliot

__________________________________________________________________
The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now! http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp 

Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/



From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Thu Oct 10 12:07:02 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:07:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What are digests?
In-Reply-To: <1D459E2E.26F11780.027B318E@netscape.net>
References: <1D459E2E.26F11780.027B318E@netscape.net>
Message-ID: <200210101107.02889.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

I have just asked my girlfriend who is studying human science.....and she said

"The process of breaking down your food into managable parts"

John

P.S. It just puts all emails that were sent to the list in the digest period 
into one big email.

On Thursday 10 Oct 2002 10:59 am, Elliot Kleiman wrote:
> I am new to mailman and mailing lists. What is the digest feature? What is
> digesting?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Elliot
>
> __________________________________________________________________
> The NEW Netscape 7.0 browser is now available. Upgrade now!
> http://channels.netscape.com/ns/browsers/download.jsp
>
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Mail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From sb.list at sb.org  Thu Oct 10 13:54:30 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 07:54:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What are digests?
In-Reply-To: <200210101107.02889.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>
Message-ID: <B9CAE2B6.47F99%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/10/02 6:07 AM, "John Wards" <j.wards at sportnetwork.net> wrote:

> I have just asked my girlfriend who is studying human science.....and she said
> 
> "The process of breaking down your food into managable parts"
> 

I think she's right. Have you noticed that the subscriber list has two
columns for "non-digested" subscribers and "digested" ones? Very appetizing.

 - Stoney




From jchum at aismedia.com  Thu Oct 10 14:13:53 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:13:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates
In-Reply-To: <0e2c01c26fd8$cd495730$32ec40ab@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <01ed01c27056$80b8ac80$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

I noticed that Apache died during the night over during this period and
rummaging through some log files, I've picked up this:

pid 32821 (sendmail), uid 0, was killed: out of swap space
Oct  9 00:05:23 custsvr1 /kernel: pid 32821 (sendmail), uid 0, was killed:
out of swap space
swap_pager_getswapspace: failed
Oct  9 00:25:17 custsvr1 sendmail[37992]: g993CjL36495: SYSERR(root): Can't
create transcript file ./xfg993CjL36495: File ex
ists
Oct  9 00:57:55 custsvr1 sendmail[37992]: g993EGL36589: queueup: cannot
create ./tfg993EGL36589, uid=0: File exists
Oct  9 01:11:35 custsvr1 sendmail[38256]: g9931DL35920: queueup: cannot
create ./tfg9931DL35920, uid=0: File exists
Oct  9 01:49:01 custsvr1 sendmail[38256]: g993APL36303: SYSERR(root): Can't
create transcript file ./xfg993APL36303: File ex
ists

This log was in the dmesg.today in the /var/log directory.

Exactly what does "swap_pager_getswapspace: failed" mean? I'm assuming that
there was enough swap space, so Mailman died and reattempted to try again,
yet loosing it's place as to what users did receive the newsletter, and
resent the letter again.

Mailman was setup as a 1 way delivery system, that is, only 1 admin sends
the newsletter, and everyone on the list receives a copy of it.

Currently this is what top looks like this morning at 8:00 AM EST:

last pid: 61450;  load averages:  0.55,  0.18,  0.08
up 49+15:23:38  08:12:57
40 processes:  1 running, 39 sleeping
CPU states:  0.0% user,  0.0% nice,  0.0% system,  0.0% interrupt,  100%
idle
Mem: 15M Active, 13M Inact, 44M Wired, 2288K Cache, 22M Buf, 48M Free
Swap: 512M Total, 17M Used, 495M Free, 3% Inuse

Any ideas?

-----Original Message-----
From: David Chait [mailto:davidc at bonair.stanford.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:14 PM
To: jchum at aismedia.com
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates


John,
    Switch your MTA on to a debug setting and watch the conversation go
through, that should score some type of information.

-David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Chum" <jchum at aismedia.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates


> I hate quoting myself, but I'm a bit frustrated with Mailman at the
moment.
> I've checked the logs/smtp just to make sure I was giving qrunner enough
> time. Did some research on the archives of python and was not able to
> determine what other possible causes.
>
> The message ID was the exact ID in all 3 messages I received in my test
> account. The time stamp was also the same on when the message was sent.
>
> I'm not sure if the MTA duplicated or Mailman duplicated the message. Any
> ideas?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jonathan Chum
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:52 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email 3x
>
>
> Mailman on the last email l sent out mailed users 3 copies of the email to
> the entire list. I'm not why this started happening as we haven't changed
> any settings, and I'm not sure where to start as to why this email was
sent
> out over a period of 3 days.
>
> Any ideas or suggestions on what could be happening? I'm using it with
> Sendmail if that helps.
>
>
> Regards,
> Jonathan Chum
> Systems Developer
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
> "We Build eBusinesses"
> 115 Perimeter Center Terrace
> Suite 540
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
> http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>





From justin at jalcorn.net  Thu Oct 10 14:47:16 2002
From: justin at jalcorn.net (Justin Alcorn)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 08:47:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates
References: <01ed01c27056$80b8ac80$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <3DA576D4.30602@jalcorn.net>

It means just what the previous line said:

pid 32821 (sendmail), uid 0, was killed: out of swap space

Running out of swap space is VERY BAD.  All kinds of BAD things will happen to 
your system.  the line you referenced simply means that a function called 
swap_pager_getswapspace wasn't able to do it's job..because you were out of 
swap.  Either you have too little memory, too little swap, or a nasty memory 
leak in one of the programs you are running.

Add swap ( `man swap` ) and reboot.

Jonathan Chum wrote:
> I noticed that Apache died during the night over during this period and
> rummaging through some log files, I've picked up this:
> 
> pid 32821 (sendmail), uid 0, was killed: out of swap space
> Oct  9 00:05:23 custsvr1 /kernel: pid 32821 (sendmail), uid 0, was killed:
> out of swap space
> swap_pager_getswapspace: failed
> Oct  9 00:25:17 custsvr1 sendmail[37992]: g993CjL36495: SYSERR(root): Can't
> create transcript file ./xfg993CjL36495: File ex
> ists
> Oct  9 00:57:55 custsvr1 sendmail[37992]: g993EGL36589: queueup: cannot
> create ./tfg993EGL36589, uid=0: File exists
> Oct  9 01:11:35 custsvr1 sendmail[38256]: g9931DL35920: queueup: cannot
> create ./tfg9931DL35920, uid=0: File exists
> Oct  9 01:49:01 custsvr1 sendmail[38256]: g993APL36303: SYSERR(root): Can't
> create transcript file ./xfg993APL36303: File ex
> ists
> 
> This log was in the dmesg.today in the /var/log directory.
> 
> Exactly what does "swap_pager_getswapspace: failed" mean? I'm assuming that
> there was enough swap space, so Mailman died and reattempted to try again,
> yet loosing it's place as to what users did receive the newsletter, and
> resent the letter again.
> 
> Mailman was setup as a 1 way delivery system, that is, only 1 admin sends
> the newsletter, and everyone on the list receives a copy of it.
> 
> Currently this is what top looks like this morning at 8:00 AM EST:
> 
> last pid: 61450;  load averages:  0.55,  0.18,  0.08
> up 49+15:23:38  08:12:57
> 40 processes:  1 running, 39 sleeping
> CPU states:  0.0% user,  0.0% nice,  0.0% system,  0.0% interrupt,  100%
> idle
> Mem: 15M Active, 13M Inact, 44M Wired, 2288K Cache, 22M Buf, 48M Free
> Swap: 512M Total, 17M Used, 495M Free, 3% Inuse
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Chait [mailto:davidc at bonair.stanford.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:14 PM
> To: jchum at aismedia.com
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates
> 
> 
> John,
>     Switch your MTA on to a debug setting and watch the conversation go
> through, that should score some type of information.
> 
> -David
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Chum" <jchum at aismedia.com>
> To: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:12 PM
> Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email duplicates
> 
> 
> 
>>I hate quoting myself, but I'm a bit frustrated with Mailman at the
> 
> moment.
> 
>>I've checked the logs/smtp just to make sure I was giving qrunner enough
>>time. Did some research on the archives of python and was not able to
>>determine what other possible causes.
>>
>>The message ID was the exact ID in all 3 messages I received in my test
>>account. The time stamp was also the same on when the message was sent.
>>
>>I'm not sure if the MTA duplicated or Mailman duplicated the message. Any
>>ideas?
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
>>[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jonathan Chum
>>Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:52 PM
>>To: mailman-users at python.org
>>Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman sending out email 3x
>>
>>
>>Mailman on the last email l sent out mailed users 3 copies of the email to
>>the entire list. I'm not why this started happening as we haven't changed
>>any settings, and I'm not sure where to start as to why this email was
> 
> sent
> 
>>out over a period of 3 days.
>>
>>Any ideas or suggestions on what could be happening? I'm using it with
>>Sendmail if that helps.
>>
>>
>>Regards,
>>Jonathan Chum
>>Systems Developer
>>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
>>"We Build eBusinesses"
>>115 Perimeter Center Terrace
>>Suite 540
>>Atlanta, GA 30346
>>Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
>>http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


-- 
Justin Alcorn
http://jalcorn.net
PGP Sig: A36D D691 C5B0 BE15  5A2A AF49 AA1C 372C
http://www.keen.com/UnixHelp




From pauljkiely at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 10 15:30:11 2002
From: pauljkiely at yahoo.com (Paul Kiely)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 06:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove a list with spaces
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.44.0210091623160.1265-100000@westin>
Message-ID: <20021010133011.50311.qmail@web14913.mail.yahoo.com>

i've tried a whole manner of quotes and escaping out
the spaces.  i've tried the following with no luck:

rmlist -a "test list"
rmlist -a 'test list"
rmlist -a test\ list
rmlist -a "test\ list"
rmlist -a 'test\ list'

none have worked.

i'm no python guru but i looked in the source for
rmlist and list looks like all it does is an 'rm -rf'
of /home/mailman/lists/<listname> as well as the
archive directories associated with the list.

i'm now just looking for confirmation if this is safe
for me to do manually.

-paul

--- Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com> wrote:
> Dear Paul,
> 
> I don't know if this would work or not, but have you
> tried something like:
> 
> rmlist -a list\ name\ with\ spaces
> 
> ? Maybe that would work.
> 
> Greg
> 
> ---
> greg at gregwestin.com
> http://www.gregwestin.com/
> Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php
> 
> On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Paul Kiely wrote:
> 
> > i'm running mailman 2.0.11 on solaris.
> >
> > how do i remove a list with spaces in the name?  i
> > tried enclosing the list in both single and double
> > quotes (which was suggested in the mailman-users
> > archive) but no luck.
> >
> > can i just cd into /home/mailman/lists and just rm
> the
> > list directory manually?
> >
> > any help is appreciated.
> >
> > greate software, by the way...
> >
> > -paul
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> > http://faith.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> >
>
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ:
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
>
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >
> 


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 10 15:39:49 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 10 Oct 2002 09:39:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unadvertised Lists
In-Reply-To: <003801c26ff1$8fbe9ab0$6801a8c0@jeff>
References: <003801c26ff1$8fbe9ab0$6801a8c0@jeff>
Message-ID: <1034257189.1637.13.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The web interface is not going to give you what you want, but if you can
login to the server (even as an ordinary user) you might be able to read
the /etc/aliases file. 
  grep post /etc/aliases

On Wed, 2002-10-09 at 20:10, Jeff Forrester wrote:
> Is there a way for an administrator to view unadvertised lists he has had created if he has forgotten the names of some of them, without having the sys admin to do a list_lists? I know how to view advertised lists by going to the listinfo directory, but I don't know how to view all lists (advertised and unadvertised). Is there a main administration area for the administrator to see all lists, advertisted and unadvertised, that he is administrator of?
> 
> 
> Jeff Forrester
> Vice-President
> Lead Programmer/Web Developer
> InterTechnics, Inc.
> http://intertechnics.com





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 10 15:43:48 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 10 Oct 2002 09:43:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to remove a list with spaces
In-Reply-To: <20021010133011.50311.qmail@web14913.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021010133011.50311.qmail@web14913.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1034257429.1633.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Exactly right!  

On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 09:30, Paul Kiely wrote:
> i've tried a whole manner of quotes and escaping out
> the spaces.  i've tried the following with no luck:
> 
> rmlist -a "test list"
> rmlist -a 'test list"
> rmlist -a test\ list
> rmlist -a "test\ list"
> rmlist -a 'test\ list'
> 
> none have worked.
> 
> i'm no python guru but i looked in the source for
> rmlist and list looks like all it does is an 'rm -rf'
> of /home/mailman/lists/<listname> as well as the
> archive directories associated with the list.
> 
> i'm now just looking for confirmation if this is safe
> for me to do manually.
> 
> -paul
> 
> --- Greg Westin <greg at gregwestin.com> wrote:
> > Dear Paul,
> > 
> > I don't know if this would work or not, but have you
> > tried something like:
> > 
> > rmlist -a list\ name\ with\ spaces
> > 
> > ? Maybe that would work.
> > 
> > Greg
> > 
> > ---
> > greg at gregwestin.com
> > http://www.gregwestin.com/
> > Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php
> > 
> > On Wed, 9 Oct 2002, Paul Kiely wrote:
> > 
> > > i'm running mailman 2.0.11 on solaris.
> > >
> > > how do i remove a list with spaces in the name?  i
> > > tried enclosing the list in both single and double
> > > quotes (which was suggested in the mailman-users
> > > archive) but no luck.
> > >
> > > can i just cd into /home/mailman/lists and just rm
> > the
> > > list directory manually?
> > >
> > > any help is appreciated.
> > >
> > > greate software, by the way...
> > >
> > > -paul
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do you Yahoo!?
> > > Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> > > http://faith.yahoo.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> ------------------------------------------------------
> > > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > >
> >
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > > Mailman FAQ:
> > http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > > Searchable Archives:
> >
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> > >
> > 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
> http://faith.yahoo.com
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From david at midrange.com  Thu Oct 10 20:49:11 2002
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:49:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Block messages with klez?
Message-ID: <ao4i21$99u$1@main.gmane.org>

Anyone know of a way to easily block messages that contain the Klez virus in
2.0.13?

I've got a attachment stripping patch on my install of Mailman, so the Klez
payload isn't delivered, but the blank messages are still being sent
through.

Thanks!

david







From webperson at now.org  Thu Oct 10 22:53:00 2002
From: webperson at now.org (NOW Website Coordinator)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 13:53:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in production?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>

The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on the mailing 
list that suggest people should use it in production if they want certain 
features.

When is it going to come out of beta?

Is anyone currently using it?

Are you using it with Qmail in production?

Would you recommend it?

Are you using it with its internal archiver or with an external one?

Thanks.


Sarah Stapleton-Gray
--------------------------------------------
Web Site Coordinator
National Organization for Women
http://www.now.org





From chrisw at signalbhn.org  Thu Oct 10 22:51:54 2002
From: chrisw at signalbhn.org (Chris Wiegand)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:51:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in production?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>
Message-ID: <001b01c2709e$de5aee00$0b0fa8c0@signalbhn.org>

I'll admit - we are using 2.1b1. I deployed it because we needed some
feature (I forget which), which was only in the 2.1 series. It has been very
stable, for us. When 2.1 goes "stable", I'll migrate over then. I use
Postfix with it, the redhat package version for rh 7.2. I use it's built in
archiver, we don't really use it anyways...

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of NOW Website
Coordinator
Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 14:53
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in
production?


The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on the mailing
list that suggest people should use it in production if they want certain
features.

When is it going to come out of beta?

Is anyone currently using it?

Are you using it with Qmail in production?

Would you recommend it?

Are you using it with its internal archiver or with an external one?

Thanks.


Sarah Stapleton-Gray
--------------------------------------------
Web Site Coordinator
National Organization for Women
http://www.now.org



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From ler at lerctr.org  Thu Oct 10 22:53:48 2002
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: 10 Oct 2002 15:53:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in production?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>
Message-ID: <1034283228.4234.0.camel@lerlaptop.lerctr.org>

On Thu, 2002-10-10 at 15:53, NOW Website Coordinator wrote:
> The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on the mailing 
> list that suggest people should use it in production if they want certain 
> features.
> 
> When is it going to come out of beta?
That's Barry's call.
> 
> Is anyone currently using it?
Yes, works great. 
> 
> Are you using it with Qmail in production?
No, Sendmail.
> 
> Would you recommend it?
Yes.
> 
> Are you using it with its internal archiver or with an external one?
Internal. 

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Sarah Stapleton-Gray
> --------------------------------------------
> Web Site Coordinator
> National Organization for Women
> http://www.now.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 972-414-9812                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 1905 Steamboat Springs Drive, Garland, TX 75044-6749




From ajai at bway.net  Fri Oct 11 01:45:54 2002
From: ajai at bway.net (Ajai Khattri)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 19:45:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber Limits
Message-ID: <20021010234554.GA3169@bway.net>

Didn't see anything about this in the FAQ.

Is it possible to limit the maximum number of subscribers on a list?

-- 
.jA
repoleveD \ .nimdA smetsyS



From davin at pacifier.com  Fri Oct 11 01:48:45 2002
From: davin at pacifier.com (Davin Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:48:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] throughput
Message-ID: <000b01c270b7$966ce440$3201a8c0@DAVIN>

Does anybody know how to figure optimal speed settings for throughput?

We have Mailman and Postfix sending out on a 1Mbps line. Is there a way
to determine what the best case speed would be?





From davin at pacifier.com  Fri Oct 11 01:46:40 2002
From: davin at pacifier.com (Davin Dahlgren)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:46:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the to: field
Message-ID: <000a01c270b7$4bedd8c0$3201a8c0@DAVIN>

Is there a way to change the email address in the to: field to reflect
the recipient's address rather than the sender's address?






From greg at gregwestin.com  Fri Oct 11 02:10:12 2002
From: greg at gregwestin.com (Greg Westin)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:10:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing the to: field
In-Reply-To: <000a01c270b7$4bedd8c0$3201a8c0@DAVIN>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.44.0210102009060.4235-100000@westin>

The To: field has the sender's address in it?  Huh?  It should have the
list address in it.  If you mean, is there a way to have each subscriber's
address appear in the To: field, rather than the list address, the answer,
I believe, is no.  This is because Mailman doesn't send the messages one
by one, but in batches.

Greg

---
greg at gregwestin.com
http://www.gregwestin.com/
Contact info: http://www.gregwestin.com/contact.php

On Thu, 10 Oct 2002, Davin Dahlgren wrote:

> Is there a way to change the email address in the to: field to reflect
> the recipient's address rather than the sender's address?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From reb at taco.com  Fri Oct 11 02:20:35 2002
From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archiver / spammer address scraping question...
Message-ID: <3999.209.209.60.41.1034295635.squirrel@webmail.taco.com>

Hi!

We use Mailman 2.0 for a number of lists which require arcives that
are open to all. We have had problems with spammers scraping addresses
from these archives and we wish to do something about it. The problem
is that if we hide all of the email addresses then legitimate users
will not be able to contact people about list-related subjects off of
the list since they won't have their email addresses.

>From what I can see, an ideal archiver would do this:
- Hide all email/mailto addresses in publicly available (no
  password) archives.
- Display email/mailto addresses when a user is logged into
  the archives using their Mailman password for the list.

Does anything do this?

Am I being naive in assuming that spammers will not obtain a
password and then scrape the archives to fill their need for
"100% opt in" addresses?

What have others done to address this issue?

reb





From mike at mgdesign.net  Fri Oct 11 03:38:42 2002
From: mike at mgdesign.net (Mike Gholson)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:38:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
Message-ID: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC707224E@64-42-35-250.atgi.net>

Hi all,

I've installed mailman 2.013 on my Redhat 7.2 box.
Qmail is my MTA and I'm having a hard time getting
Mailman to work right.

I can create lists and the system notifies me of the
new list.  I can even log in to the info page and
sign-up.  The system sends me a confirmation message.

BUT, when I reply to the confirmation message, it
gets lost.

I can see the message in my mail queue.  So, I think
mailman isn't creating the proper path to Qmail.

Anyone know where I can look for help on this?

-- Mike



From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Fri Oct 11 10:16:02 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:16:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in production?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010135145.00d92100@now.org>
Message-ID: <200210110916.03019.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

On Thursday 10 Oct 2002 9:53 pm, NOW Website Coordinator wrote:
> The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on the mailing
> list that suggest people should use it in production if they want certain
> features.
>
> When is it going to come out of beta?
Dunno...........
>
> Is anyone currently using it?
Yup, have many active lists
>
> Are you using it with Qmail in production?
Yup, usinging it with qmail and the mailman-to-qmail script supplied. This 
makes for an very easy list to manage. Oh I am also using 
FreeBSD.....wild....;-)
>
> Would you recommend it?
Yes have had no problems with it
>
> Are you using it with its internal archiver or with an external one?
erm....both......I have a few applications that I have built that have its own 
front end to interact with the mailing list stuff and the archiver just 
wasn't pretty enough. I am using www.phorum.org and its phorum mail script. 
for archiving.


Cheers
John Wards
SportNetwork.net



From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Fri Oct 11 10:18:53 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 09:18:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC707224E@64-42-35-250.atgi.net>
References: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC707224E@64-42-35-250.atgi.net>
Message-ID: <200210110918.53326.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

I had the same problems.............

First off have you set up your cron jobs? Double check..............

Secondly if you have...........

This is dodgy.............run the cron Jobs as root..................

I managed to stop doing this after I upgraded to 2.1b but that was due to my 
dodgy install

John

On Friday 11 Oct 2002 2:38 am, Mike Gholson wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I've installed mailman 2.013 on my Redhat 7.2 box.
> Qmail is my MTA and I'm having a hard time getting
> Mailman to work right.
>
> I can create lists and the system notifies me of the
> new list.  I can even log in to the info page and
> sign-up.  The system sends me a confirmation message.
>
> BUT, when I reply to the confirmation message, it
> gets lost.
>
> I can see the message in my mail queue.  So, I think
> mailman isn't creating the proper path to Qmail.
>
> Anyone know where I can look for help on this?
>
> -- Mike
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From filizzi at umich.edu  Fri Oct 11 18:41:36 2002
From: filizzi at umich.edu (Matt Filizzi)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 12:41:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
Message-ID: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>

We have two machines running mailman, both setup identical.  Both were 
running fine up untill a week ago (except for some reason one was 
marking valid emails as nomail but that's another question), then one of 
our two servers started sending out the following qrunner error messages 
everytime qrunner was run.  Also it seems that messages are not being 
sent from that server anymore.  Nothing has changed configuration wise 
to cause this.  Any ideas of where to even start looking?

sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file

-- 
Matt Filizzi

Michigan Poverty Law Program
611 Church Street, Suite 4A
Ann Arbor, Michigan  48104
734.998.6100 x 23




From subscribe at mcknight.uk.net  Fri Oct 11 19:33:30 2002
From: subscribe at mcknight.uk.net (Stuart)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 18:33:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Length of list name?
Message-ID: <B9CCC9FA.9F3C%subscribe@mcknight.uk.net>

Hi all,

I think I solved my earlier problem with a single list out of three bouncing
in my mailman/postfix/aix environment. After checking out the permissions
really carefully with no luck, I tried creating a new list with a shorter
name and that works fine - my guess is something must break when the suffix
"-request" gets added.

My lists that work are:
Bobtalk
Vignette
Quixote

The broken one is 
Quixotesolutions

Anybody seen any FAQ detailing the max length of list name? I'm using
Mailman 2.0.13 and AIX 4.1.5 with Python 1.52

TIA

Stuart




From dpadilla at sdsc.edu  Fri Oct 11 20:23:36 2002
From: dpadilla at sdsc.edu (David Padilla)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 11:23:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing rejection messages
Message-ID: <3DA71728.E4355423@sdsc.edu>

I'm a newbie to Mailman, and I apologize if this question has been answered earlier.  

Is it possible to edit the standard notices that Mailman sends out when a posting by a non-member is
held for approval?  I wasn't able to find any way in the FAQ or documentation.  Thanks for any
help.  

-- 
-David Padilla
-Production Support Programmer
-The Protein Data Bank



From linux_news at nextphere.com  Fri Oct 11 16:18:08 2002
From: linux_news at nextphere.com (linux_news at nextphere.com)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:18:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with list member's vacation script
Message-ID: <E1805yc-0001IR-00@real.local.evenreal.com>

Hi,

I manage a mailing list site with mailman, and I recently had the following 
problem:

Lets say I have a list called test at site.org with 3 members: m1 at foo.org, 
m2 at foo.org and m3 at foo.org. m3 has its vacation script turned on. m1 sends an 
email to test at site.org, so m2,m3 and m1 itself receive the email. m3's 
vacation script replies to m1 and to test at site.org, so m1 gets 2 copies of 
the reply (one directly and one through test at site.org), m2 gets a copy and m1 
gets a copy of its own reply which in turn will be replied by its vacation 
script and so on. So my mail server ends up sending a lot of useless emails.
How can I stop this situation? 
I know I can reject or hold emails based on some header pattern matching, but 
I cannot do this on a case by case basis, not all vacation scripts behave the 
same, so this is not a solution for my problem.
I was thinking maybe there's a way to configure mailman so that if m1 sends 
an email to test at site.org mailman will not send a copy of the email back to 
m1 just because m1 is a list member.

Also, is there a way to limit the number of postings each member is allowed 
to sent per day?

Thanks,

-- 
Gustavo M.



From jared at synapseglobal.com  Sat Oct 12 00:23:18 2002
From: jared at synapseglobal.com (jared sanders)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UID/GID mismatch error....
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011152119.009f9e50@k2.synapseglobal.com>

We re-installed apache-1.3.27 (prevoiusly 1.3.24) on our server, while we 
left mailman untouched.  Now when we try to use mailman we get the following:
Mailman CGI error!!!
The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set by 
the Web server.
The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured and installed 
incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again, paying close 
attention to the --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry is being 
stored in your syslog:
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT gid 60001.  (Reconfigure to take 
60001?)

we want to fix this problem without upgrading or recompiling mailman, we 
cannot lose our current mailing lists.  Any guidance would be great, thanks 
in advance guys!

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021011/29265de8/attachment.html 

From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Sat Oct 12 00:51:21 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:51:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UID/GID mismatch error....
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011152119.009f9e50@k2.synapseglobal.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011152119.009f9e50@k2.synapseglobal.com>
Message-ID: <55170000.1034376681@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

This one is always fun.

You can rerun ./configure and set the --with-cgi-gid to what it should be 
(probably 60001 in your case), then rerun make (don't need to do make 
install), then copy the newly compiled cgi wrapper over the old one.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Friday, October 11, 2002 15:23:18 -0700 jared sanders 
<jared at synapseglobal.com> wrote:

> We re-installed apache-1.3.27 (prevoiusly 1.3.24) on our server, while we
> left mailman untouched.  Now when we try to use mailman we get the
> following: Mailman CGI error!!!
> The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set
> by the Web server. The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured
> and installed incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again,
> paying close attention to the --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry
> is being stored in your syslog: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT
> gid 60001.  (Reconfigure to take 60001?)
>
> we want to fix this problem without upgrading or recompiling mailman, we
> cannot lose our current mailing lists.  Any guidance would be great,
> thanks in advance guys!
>





From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Sat Oct 12 00:55:04 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:55:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UID/GID mismatch error....
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011152119.009f9e50@k2.synapseglobal.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021011152119.009f9e50@k2.synapseglobal.com>
Message-ID: <56140000.1034376904@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

A better/easier fix might be to run httpd as the same user that you were 
running it as under 1.3.24.  Sounds like you were running it as GID 1 
(daemon) before  and are now running it as gid 60001.


--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Friday, October 11, 2002 15:23:18 -0700 jared sanders 
<jared at synapseglobal.com> wrote:

> We re-installed apache-1.3.27 (prevoiusly 1.3.24) on our server, while we
> left mailman untouched.  Now when we try to use mailman we get the
> following: Mailman CGI error!!!
> The expected gid of the Mailman CGI wrapper did not match the gid as set
> by the Web server. The most likely cause is that Mailman was configured
> and installed incorrectly. Please read the INSTALL instructions again,
> paying close attention to the --with-cgi-gid configure option. This entry
> is being stored in your syslog: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT
> gid 60001.  (Reconfigure to take 60001?)
>
> we want to fix this problem without upgrading or recompiling mailman, we
> cannot lose our current mailing lists.  Any guidance would be great,
> thanks in advance guys!
>





From davin at pacifier.com  Sat Oct 12 00:56:21 2002
From: davin at pacifier.com (Davin Dahlgren)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:56:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anti-SPAM features
Message-ID: <001c01c27179$6f472430$3201a8c0@DAVIN>

Has anyone had any problems with SPAM filters because of the lack of an
explicit recipient in the To: field? I notice that Mailman itself has an
option to filter out messages as SPAM if they do not carry an explicit
recipient, but I am told that Mailman itself has no way to send with
explicit recipients.

Does this generally cause problems? Is there a way to set the number of
recipients per mailing, or is that pretty much hard coded in?

Davin





From webmaster at infomarketingonline.com  Sat Oct 12 01:44:48 2002
From: webmaster at infomarketingonline.com (Michael Ambrosio)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:44:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] JPG and GIF attachments
Message-ID: <E1809HL-0006ss-00@host15.nocdirect.com>

The host where I have my list is running Mailman 
2.0.11.  The problem I have is when you send JPG or GIF attachments, 
they email fine, but they show up in the archives as code.  Any ideas 
why this does this?

 
Michael Ambrosio
Host Me Pay Me
webmaster at host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you have to host a site, wouldn't it be nice
to earn some extra money too?
 
Host your site. Earn an income.
 
Fat package. Dependable servers. Dedicated
and helpful service staff.
 
http://www.host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10/11/2002

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: checkmark.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 383 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021011/02aae614/attachment.gif 

From raquel at thericehouse.net  Sat Oct 12 01:59:55 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 16:59:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 changing existing domain (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210111920510.25657-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210111920510.25657-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <20021011165955.7db1a365.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:21:47 -0400 (EDT)
Fuzzy <fuzzy at pooh.ASARian.org> wrote:

> 
> [repost]
> 
> application     version
> -----------     -------
> mailman		2.1b3
> python 		2.2.1
> apache 		1.3.23
> sendmail	8.11.6
> 
> 
> I have some lists that migated to a virtual domain,
> (both Apache and Sendmail, virtual name based domains).
> 
> I changed the "host name this list prefers email" to
> the virtual domain, and modified the virtusers table
> to route incoming mail to the the mailman aliases.
> 
> Mailman now uses the correct virtual domain in email,
> and for mailto: URLs, but still uses the original
> domain in http:// URLs (the RFC2369 headers and the
> footer that MM adds to the post).
> 
> How do I convince MM to use to use the correct
> virtual domains?
> 
> I can get to both the admin and the listinfo
> pages using either domain (the "real" or the
> "virtual"). While I was logged in to the
> listinfo pages, I asked MM to tell me what
> mailing lists I was in, (it listed the ones
> in the virtual domain only). MM seems to
> know what address  is on which list at what
> domain. I guess I missed a setting someplace?

You need to take care of this in mm_cfg, using "add_virtualhost()". 
The syntax can be found in Defaults.py.  Once your virtual hosts are
added there, it will work properly.

--
Raquel
============================================================
First keep the peace within yourself, then you can also bring peace
to others.
  --Thomas A Kempis




From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sat Oct 12 04:31:14 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 20:31:14 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] advertising a list
Message-ID: <34194.200.67.148.198.1034389874.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>

I have just configured a test list with mailman 2.0.13, and everything is
fine, but when visiting the mysite/mailman/listinfo page, I get the
message  "There currently are no publicly-advertised mailman mailing lists
on mysite...".
When I append the list name (/test) it works fine. The question here is:
what should I do in order to "advertise" a list?

Thanks in advice guys.





From ges at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct  7 02:42:24 2002
From: ges at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sun, 06 Oct 2002 20:42:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix / Mailman integration script
In-Reply-To: <1033944599.2183.9.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021006193219.00bc7128@mail.wingfoot.org>

At 06:49 PM 10/6/2002 -0400, Jon Carnes posted the following...
>Postfix & Mailman integration
>May 29th 2002, 8:57 MST
>
>The Postfix mail server and the Mailman are both highly regarded and
>popular packages. This python script glues Postfix and Mailman together
>in a way so that a virtual domains such as lists.example.com can be
>defined and all deliveries are handed off to Mailman. The benefit of
>this is that it does not require the creation of ANY aliases.
>Installation and configuration instructions are comments inside the
>script.
>
>http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman.py

Interesting.. I've grabbed this, and have modified it for 2.1b3...

Some things I changed:

1) It was calling something called "env" in the shebang, which I had to put 
/usr/local/bin/python (if anyone has a suggestion on this, I'm happy to 
take it, of course... as I mentioned eariler, I am a fledgling programmer 
here...)

2) I changed the types to:

     type = "post"
     types = (("-admin$", "admin"),
              ("-bounces$", "bounces"),
              ("-confirm$", "confirm"),
              ("-join$", "join"),
              ("-leave$", "leave"),
              ("-owner$", "owner"),
              ("-request$", "request"),
              ("-subscribe$", "subscribe"),
              ("-unsubscribe$", "unsubscribe"))

(I suppose I could get rid of the bounce() function, but I figured I'd keep 
it in as a "catch all"...)

Just thought I'd share this.. :)

Thanks!
Glenn

---

The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br  Mon Oct  7 14:05:07 2002
From: gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br (Gleydson Mazioli da Silva)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:05:07 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems after restoring a dump with Mailman 2.1b3
Message-ID: <20021007090507.0bd259eb.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>

Hi all,

This is the first message that I post to this list. My name is Gleydson, and I'm the maintainer of pt_BR translation of Mailman 2.1b
and a list manager for www.cipsga.org.br.

Recently I've backup the old site configuration with "config_list -o file list" and list_members (for both regular and digest members)
for all lists.

After doing the update, I've created the lists with "new_list" and restored the previous configuration for each one. But after that,
no-one list name is show in the listinfo and admin page! The same thing not happen when I create lists using the Web interface.

So, I ask if this is a new_list bug and the procedure to show the list names (even if need to do by hand).

Thanks!

Gleydson Mazioli da Silva 
-------------------------
gleydson at ima.sp.gov.br
Consultor de Servidores GNU/Linux
IMA - Inform?tica de Municipios Associados
Av. Anchieta 200 - Campinas - SP
(19) 3232-9611 - R. 216



From sdavis at prosing.com  Mon Oct  7 15:05:59 2002
From: sdavis at prosing.com (Scott D. Davis)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 09:05:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New user: Load
Message-ID: <001b01c26e02$49080ed0$0300a8c0@Admin>

Hello:

I am thinking of implimenting Mailman.

Question:
What kind of load can I expect with a list of 150,000 Users.

My internet connection is Cable, and I am using RH 7.2 as a server.

I guess my question is, should I forget it or move forward with
implimentation?  Should there be concern on my part about bandwidth, and
resources?


Thanks,
Scott

===========================
Scott D. Davis, IT Manager
1-800-PRO-SING, x1131
SDavis at ProSing.com
http://www.prosing.com
===========================





From mliceaga7 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct  8 01:02:40 2002
From: mliceaga7 at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Mariano=20Liceaga?=)
Date: Mon, 7 Oct 2002 20:02:40 -0300 (ART)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and sendmail
Message-ID: <20021007230240.79789.qmail@web13805.mail.yahoo.com>

After making some modifications to sendmail config I
can finally send a help or subscribe command to the
list, and get a response. Now I realize that I have
another problem, I post to the list but the messages
never show up...what can it be now??
Thanx a lot!


Ahora pod?s usar Yahoo! Messenger desde tu celular. Aprend? c?mo hacerlo en Yahoo! M?vil: http://ar.mobile.yahoo.com/sms.html



From poonam at magnet-i.com  Tue Oct  8 08:15:13 2002
From: poonam at magnet-i.com (poonam at magnet-i.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 11:45:13 +0530 (IST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] maling list
Message-ID: <38053.192.168.0.1.1034057713.squirrel@www.maya.world>

hi,

i want to add 250000 at single time. how to do that in mail man? if i want 
to give a url to my web suite user to subscribe & unsubscribe form my 
mailing how to do that...?


thanking you

poonam oka

-----------------------------------------





From psnizek at belfin.ch  Tue Oct  8 08:41:56 2002
From: psnizek at belfin.ch (psnizek at belfin.ch)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 08:41:56 +0200 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mdom gets filled up with mails from itself
Message-ID: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B22B1@mx.snizek.ch>

Hello

mdom account gets filled up with mails from itself. How do I stop this? I
didn't find it in the faq. 

thank you
Philipp

Oct  8 08:31:00 lists postfix/cleanup[5873]: 87C728A97:
message-id=<20021008063100.87C728A97 at lists.seaan.net>
Oct  8 08:31:00 lists postfix/qmgr[653]: 87C728A97:
from=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, size=576, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct  8 08:31:00 lists postfix/local[9136]: 87C728A97:
to=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (mailbox)
Oct  8 08:32:00 lists postfix/pickup[6045]: A57A28A97: uid=28 from=<mdom>
Oct  8 08:32:00 lists postfix/cleanup[5873]: A57A28A97:
message-id=<20021008063200.A57A28A97 at lists.seaan.net>
Oct  8 08:32:00 lists postfix/qmgr[653]: A57A28A97:
from=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, size=576, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct  8 08:32:00 lists postfix/local[9136]: A57A28A97:
to=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (mailbox)
Oct  8 08:33:00 lists postfix/pickup[6045]: CB5958A97: uid=28 from=<mdom>
Oct  8 08:33:00 lists postfix/cleanup[5873]: CB5958A97:
message-id=<20021008063300.CB5958A97 at lists.seaan.net>
Oct  8 08:33:00 lists postfix/qmgr[653]: CB5958A97:
from=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, size=576, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct  8 08:33:00 lists postfix/local[9136]: CB5958A97:
to=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, relay=local, delay=0, status=sent (mailbox)
Oct  8 08:34:00 lists postfix/pickup[6045]: E8F1C8A97: uid=28 from=<mdom>
Oct  8 08:34:00 lists postfix/cleanup[5873]: E8F1C8A97:
message-id=<20021008063400.E8F1C8A97 at lists.seaan.net>
Oct  8 08:34:00 lists postfix/qmgr[653]: E8F1C8A97:
from=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, size=576, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct  8 08:34:01 lists postfix/local[9136]: E8F1C8A97:
to=<mdom at lists.seaan.net>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent (mailbox)



From admin at lettersbyus.com  Tue Oct  8 14:49:22 2002
From: admin at lettersbyus.com (LettersByUs Admin)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 07:49:22 -0500 (Central Daylight Time)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Mailman
Message-ID: <3DA2D452.000014.29375@janetlee>

 I was just wondering if there is a limit of how many subscribers can be on
a list?



I am a first time user of the Mailman program and have found it to be very
simple and easy to understand.



Thank you

Janet LaGoy

 

~*~*~*~

Visit our website: http://lettersbyus.com

Email us at: admin at lettersbyus.com 

 

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021008/c3390c85/attachment.html 

From dromanowski at TRIRIGA.com  Tue Oct  8 19:45:01 2002
From: dromanowski at TRIRIGA.com (David Romanowski)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 10:45:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rest user password
Message-ID: <C0813D854A46F249A72DC407680227A901C8C05C@mail1.tririga.com>

I've checked the archives but I'm unable to find a way to reset the users password.  As a list Admin, is it possible to reset a users password?

Your assistance is appreciated!

David



From randall at amen.org.uk  Wed Oct  9 00:09:49 2002
From: randall at amen.org.uk (Randall Hardy)
Date: Tue, 8 Oct 2002 23:09:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HTML/Plain Text
Message-ID: <001001c26f17$7086ab40$5625ff3e@dads>

Dear Python,

I manage a mailing list which uses Mailman 2.0.13. My ISP is zetnet.co.uk

If possible I would like set Mailman to forward mail as Plain Text only
whatever format they have been written in. However, I cannot see any way of
doing this in the regular postings section. (I can in the digest settings.)

Please can you tell me if there is any way as a list manager I can select this
an option.

I subscribe to a list on Yahoo!Groups which also uses Mailman and the
moderator on that seems to have been able to strip out HTML in postings. Is
theirs a different version?

The main reason for wanting to do this is to prevent the spread of viruses -
this has happened in the past.

If I can't set it is there some way I can ask the site administrator to do so?

I look forward to what I hope will be a helpful reply.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yours - Randall Hardy
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Take a thoughtful look at our planet's history -
visit: www.amen.org.uk




From p.vasarhelyi at kkt.bme.hu  Wed Oct  9 10:27:36 2002
From: p.vasarhelyi at kkt.bme.hu (Vásárhelyi Pál)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 10:27:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman: Co-operation with UNESCO
Message-ID: <3DA3E878.5075@kkt.bme.hu>

Dear Collegue,

UNESCO (the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural
Organization) wishes to promote the use of freware products/free
services in the field of education in developing countries, presenting
them on its web-site in a harmonised way and obtaining royalty-free use,
when this needs specific negotiations. The Budapest University of
Technology is assisting UNESCO in this task. 

Understanding that Mailman is available as Open source, it would be
highly appreciated if you could confirm, that educational
institutions co-operating with UNESCO in developing countries will have
the right to download and eventually modify it under GPL.

Should this be possible, we would need information on the following
characteristics of the software tool:
- state of development: is there a stable version? Date of Last update?
- support available or planned, such as FAQ, demo version, user manual,
teacher guide, discussion forum,
- adaptability to local requirements, such as possibility of
personalisation, using languages else than English, availability of
counterpart to assist external users..
- Hardware and Informatics knowledge required for use
- Download possibilities, such as server-uptime.

Your kind co-operation would be a valuable contribution by your
institution and country to the development of education in countries,
where this is the crucial task to be solved in order to reduce poverty
and its consequences.

Thanks and best regards
Pal Vasarhelyi



From joe at ibite.com  Wed Oct  9 17:58:02 2002
From: joe at ibite.com (Joe Chapuis)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 11:58:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] installation instructions
Message-ID: <NEBBLJNOOLPHENIEFDHOOEAJFMAA.joe@ibite.com>

Hello:

I am trying to install mailman per the
instructions at: http://www.list.org/install-start.html

However, the page is mostly blank.

It says:

IMPORTANT: Pay special attention to the step below where you
have to set up your crontab entries. If you do not do this,
Mailman will not work.

Unfortunately, there is nothing below that point.

Any suggestions?

Thank You,
Joe




From srazin at cio.sc.gov  Wed Oct  9 18:26:40 2002
From: srazin at cio.sc.gov (Sergey Razin)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 12:26:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Several Questions about Mailman
Message-ID: <sda4208b.015@gwmail.state.sc.us>

Good Day!
I have several questions about Mailman that I was unable to find
answers to on the website.
I would like to receive some answers to it because I would like to use
it. 
Is Mailman free? I know that download is free but do you charge
depending on number of users or number of lists that I will have.
How many users and lists it can support?
How is it secure? 
 
Thank you for your help
Looking forward to hear from you soon.
Sergey
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021009/9a42b4e4/attachment.htm 

From stuart at mcknight.uk.net  Wed Oct  9 19:14:00 2002
From: stuart at mcknight.uk.net (Stuart McKnight)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 18:14:00 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix/mailman/aix/newlist probs
Message-ID: <B9CA2268.9D38%stuart@mcknight.uk.net>

OK, this is annoying me now.....many years ago in a distant galaxy I
installed Mailman 2 with Postfix and set up two mailing lists, which ran
quite happily.

Today I add another mailing list, using the newlist command and take the
alias lines and add them to the rest. Run postalias as before and reload
postfix. Test the new mailing list alias and they bounce:

<quixotesolutions-request at mcknight.uk.net>: Command died with status 2:
    "/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd quixotesolutions". Command
output:
    Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 54, GOT gid -2.  (Reconfigure to take
    -2?)

Thinking it's a total bosh, I try the existing mailing lists and they work
fine.....

The web admin interface for ALL three mailing lists works fine.....

Here's the alias entries first and last:

## bobtalk mailing list
## created: 08-Apr-2002 root
bobtalk:                 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post bobtalk"
bobtalk-admin:           "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
bobtalk"
bobtalk-request:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd bobtalk"
bobtalk-owner:           bobtalk-admin

<snip>

## quixotesolutions mailing list
## created: 09-Oct-2002 root
quixotesolutions:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper post
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-admin:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-request: "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd
quixotesolutions"
quixotesolutions-owner:  quixotesolutions-admin


Running the Mailman check_perms command says everything okay...

Ho hum....anybody been as dumb as me lately and done the same thing..?!

Regards to all

Stuart




From sdavis at prosing.com  Wed Oct  9 21:42:51 2002
From: sdavis at prosing.com (Scott D. Davis)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 15:42:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with possible user?
Message-ID: <001e01c26fcc$125b73b0$0300a8c0@Admin>

I wrote this before, but did not see it pop up...

Hello:

I am thinking of implimenting Mailman.

Question:
What kind of load can I expect with a list of 150,000 Users.

My internet connection is Cable, and I am using RH 7.2 as a server.

I guess my question is, should I forget it or move forward with
implimentation?  Should there be concern on my part about bandwidth, and
resources?


Thanks,
Scott

===========================
Scott D. Davis, IT Manager
1-800-PRO-SING, x1131
SDavis at ProSing.com
http://www.prosing.com
===========================





From spencero at mail.utexas.edu  Wed Oct  9 21:54:04 2002
From: spencero at mail.utexas.edu (Spencer Ogden)
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 14:54:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman config
Message-ID: <200210091454.04056.spencero@mail.utexas.edu>

I'm finding the instructions on configuring mailmaan a little vague. I've 
got everything installed and responding over the web, but I am not getting 
a confirmation email after creating a list. I am running exim locally and 
have tried send the confirmation to both a local address and a remote one, 
neither show up. I can send mail locally with mutt to both the local and 
the remote address. I'm not seeing anything from mailman in my syslog... 
and there is no mailman/logs directory. Any help is appreciated.

Spencer



From fa at ision.net  Thu Oct 10 14:13:00 2002
From: fa at ision.net (Frank Altpeter)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 14:13:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem compiling mailman
Message-ID: <20021010121300.GA884@ision.net>

Hello,

i just tried to install mailman to finally replace majordomo, but it
didn't work as expected.

I fist installed python successfully:

mail:~ # python
Python 2.2.2b1 (#1, Oct 10 2002, 13:39:17) 
[GCC 2.7.2.1] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.

After proceeding as listed in the install instructions on the web site,
i've created username and group 'mailman' and started to configure
mailman as user 'mailman'.

The output of the configure works fine, until that point:

mail:/usr/src/mailman-2.0.13 $ ./configure
[...]
checking for --with-username... mailman
checking for mailman UID... 5555
checking for --with-groupname... mailman
checking for mailman GID... 5555
checking permissions on /home/mailman... okay
checking for mail wrapper GID... 1
checking for CGI wrapper GID... 60001
checking for CGI extensions... no
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "conftest.py", line 2, in ?
    from socket import *
  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.2/socket.py", line 41, in ?
    from _socket import *
ImportError: No module named _socket

This happens on SunOS mail 5.5 Generic_103093-26 sun4u sparc SUNW,Ultra-1

(And yes i know that this is a "little" bit old :-)

Since this is the first time i'm using python, i'm unable to find out
what this error means and how to solve it. Any hints?

With kind regards,

		Frank Altpeter

P.S. please include me in reply since i'm not subscribed to this list.



From webperson at now.org  Thu Oct 10 20:06:24 2002
From: webperson at now.org (NOW Website Coordinator)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 11:06:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in production?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021010110442.00b9ca50@now.org>

The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on the mailing 
list that suggest people should use it in production if they want certain 
features.

When is it going to come out of beta?


Sarah Stapleton-Gray
--------------------------------------------
Web Site Coordinator
National Organization for Women
http://www.now.org





From psnizek at belfin.ch  Thu Oct 10 22:52:26 2002
From: psnizek at belfin.ch (psnizek@seaan.net)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 22:52:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1 -- is anyone using it in producti
	on?
Message-ID: <31347F3CE518D6118ACB00A0246AD0560B2321@mx.snizek.ch>




> The web site warns away from using it, but I see responses on 
> the mailing 
> list that suggest people should use it in production if they 
> want certain 
> features.

what do they warn of? web server? place a reverse proxy in front of it. we
run it with squid 2.4 stable 3 with host headers and there is no probelm.

> When is it going to come out of beta?

Have no idea. When it's finished I guess.
 
> Is anyone currently using it?

Yes. Me. 

> Are you using it with Qmail in production?

No, with Postfix.

> Would you recommend it?

Yes, I would.

> Are you using it with its internal archiver or with an external one?

Internal.

> Thanks.

u're welcome.

> 
> Sarah Stapleton-Gray
> --------------------------------------------
> Web Site Coordinator
> National Organization for Women
> http://www.now.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 



From cdark at wildlife-resort.com  Thu Oct 10 23:58:40 2002
From: cdark at wildlife-resort.com (Charles Dark)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 16:58:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP
Message-ID: <NGBBJDDEJKFGJOCLFMBDOEHMCEAA.cdark@wildlife-resort.com>

I am unsure of how to install MailMan.  Specifically, I don't quite
understand what is meant and how to implement the new user and new group.
Any help you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Charles
cdark at wildlife-resort.com




From coy at mooneymart.com  Fri Oct 11 00:43:00 2002
From: coy at mooneymart.com (Coy)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 18:43:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Question
Message-ID: <00a501c270ae$6365edc0$3902a8c0@Coysc1200>

Hi,
 
We are considering using Mailman but would like to have a more detailed
sign-in page asking for the usual contact data and a few other fields.
We would also like to allow members or users with valid passwords access
to most of this data so as to verify the ID of the person making the
posts is accurate.  
 
In other words, we want things like; name, address, emails, phones, and
a few other fields including a short data box for a short bio (for
example).  This data page could be accessed if and when someone wanted
to by listing the email of the person who's data they are seeking.  This
data would only be available if a person went to a specific portion of
our site and/or URL to peruse the sign-up page.  
 
Is this possible and/or how could we do it?  If you can't answer this,
can you tell us how to have it done from here.  
 
 
I hope this is clear, if not advise,
 
Thanks in advance
 
 
Coy Jacob
800-AC4-SALE,   941-484-0801
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021010/98452115/attachment.html 

From webmaster at inmarkon.com  Fri Oct 11 02:09:07 2002
From: webmaster at inmarkon.com (Michael Ambrosio)
Date: Thu, 10 Oct 2002 20:09:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] JPG Attachments
Message-ID: <E17znMW-0004GK-00@ns1.mewebdns.com>

The host I have my list on is running Mailman 2.0.11.  Whe I sent 
picture attachments (jpg, gif) it shows up in the archives as code.  
Anyone know why? 

Thanks.
 
Michael Ambrosio
Host Me Pay Me
webmaster at host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you have to host a site, wouldn't it be nice
to earn some extra money too?
 
Host your site. Earn an income.
 
Fat package. Dependable servers. Dedicated
and helpful service staff.
 
http://www.host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10/10/2002






From gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br  Fri Oct 11 15:02:46 2002
From: gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br (Gleydson Mazioli da Silva)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:02:46 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with mailman 2.1b3 in a production environment
Message-ID: <20021011100246.46f1e8ca.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>

Hi all,

After updating the mailman 2.0.9 to 2.1b3, I got the following problem:

After four days, all list messages were delivered correctly. But now, 
no one message is delivered for list members (I think normal members only). 
The postfix log show the following message when it receives a message

-----------------
Oct 10 18:47:00 cipsga postfix/smtpd[22785]: connect from denver.procergs.com.br
[200.198.129.163]
Oct 10 18:47:01 cipsga postfix/smtpd[22785]: E6C101FC03: client=denver.procergs.
com.br[200.198.129.163]
Oct 10 18:47:02 cipsga postfix/cleanup[22786]: E6C101FC03: message-id=<200210101
85002.7dcfbee8.someuser at focalinux.org>
Oct 10 18:47:02 cipsga postfix/smtpd[22785]: disconnect from denver.procergs.com
.br[200.198.129.163]
Oct 10 18:47:02 cipsga postfix/qmgr[28099]: E6C101FC03: from=<someuser at focalinux
.org>, size=944, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Oct 10 18:47:02 cipsga postfix/local[22787]: E6C101FC03: to=<linuxchix at listas.ci
psga.org.br>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent ("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman
 post linuxchix")
----------------

And the processing stop at this point. No one list configuration was changed and 
the /etc/init.d/mailman process (the system runs in Debian GNU/Linux) is 
running to deliver the messages.

One thing: the message appear in lists/list-name/digest.mbox, even if it isn't 
delivered.

The check_perms is ok, and the lists were working right in the last 5 days.

I need any help to debug and (if the experience of list help) solve the problem
fasten :-)

Thanks!

-- 
Gleydson Mazioli da Silva 
-------------------------
gleydson at ima.sp.gov.br
Consultor de Servidores GNU/Linux
IMA - Inform?tica de Municipios Associados
Av. Anchieta 200 - Campinas - SP
(19) 3232-9611 - R. 216



From fa at ision.net  Fri Oct 11 15:16:35 2002
From: fa at ision.net (Frank Altpeter)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:16:35 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failure to exec script...
Message-ID: <20021011131635.GI24723@ision.net>

hello!

Although there are some threads in the mail archive to this problem, i
think this one is slightly different so i decided to ask here...

I'm getting the following error:


   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----               
"|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"                                         
    (expanded from: <test at ision.net>)                                           
                                                                                
   ----- Transcript of session follows -----                                    
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid d, GOT gid d.  (Reconfigure to take d?)      
554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2           
                                                                                

Unlike the other posters before, there's a gid of "d" mentioned, where a
number should be in place...

Then, mailman has been installed correctly with its own uid and gid:

uid=5555(mailman) gid=5555(mailman)

When executing the often mentioned check_perms as user mailman, it says
that there are no problems found.

mail:~ $ id
uid=5555(mailman) gid=5555(mailman)
mail:~ $ pwd
/home/mailman
mail:~ $ ls -laF mail
total 56
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman      512 Oct 10 15:21 ./
drwxrwsr-x  18 mailman  mailman      512 Oct 10 15:51 ../
-rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    25904 Oct 10 15:21 wrapper*
mail:~ $ 

Any hints on that? I really wanted to get rid of majordomo :-)

With kind regards,

		Frank Altpeter



From mjr at psychtrials.com  Fri Oct 11 20:20:28 2002
From: mjr at psychtrials.com (Michael J. Rieser, MD, PSC)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 14:20:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>

How do I set up mailing list so that the individuals who subscribe are not able to send e-mail to all the members in the list. This leaves too much risk for spam in my opinion. Are there other mail-list servers?

Thank you.

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021011/66e6b1a4/attachment.htm 

From gward at mems-exchange.org  Fri Oct 11 21:13:30 2002
From: gward at mems-exchange.org (Greg Ward)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:13:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files with leading blank line
Message-ID: <20021011191330.GA28626@cthulhu.gerg.ca>

My usual mode of interaction with Mailman is via the command-line --
this web stuff is just too newfangled.  Thus, whenever I want to look in
a list's archive, I generally run "mutt -f" on the archive mbox file.

I have noticed that many Mailman mbox archives are just a tad bogus:
ie. they start with a blank line rather than a "From " line, eg.

$ head -2 archives/private/microscope-list.mbox/microscope-list.mbox

>From microscope-list-admin  Thu Jan 28 10:11:07 1999

Naturally, mutt complains that this is not a valid mbox file.

Is this an old bug that was fixed long ago, and does not affect new
lists?  Or can this still happen with the current Mailman?  (I'm in the
process of switching from 2.0.12 to 2.1b3+.)

My usual workaround is to look over both shoulders to make sure no one's
watching, cross my fingers and hope that no posts come in in the next
few seconds, and manually remove the offending blank line with a text
editor.  Is there a better way?

Thanks --

        Greg
-- 
Greg Ward - software developer                gward at mems-exchange.org
MEMS Exchange                            http://www.mems-exchange.org



From eyoung at toyota.com  Fri Oct 11 22:14:06 2002
From: eyoung at toyota.com (Edmund Young III)
Date: 11 Oct 2002 13:14:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman failed script, unexpected GID on Suse Linux
Message-ID: <1034367247.24517.44.camel@matrix>

I am having issues with unexpected GID when attempting to send mail
through wrapper scripts.
Any help is appreciated.

Failure message:

===============

The original message was received at Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:17:10 -0700
from localhost [127.0.0.1]
with id g9BHHAGQ000640

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
    (reason: 2)
    (expanded from: <test at straylight.toyota.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 2.  (Reconfigure to
take 2?)
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2
-- 


*****************************
Best Regards,
Edmund Young III
Unix Systems Administrator
Bus. (310) 468 - 1620
Toyota Motor Sales
http://www.toyota.com
*****************************




From cristina at uchicago.edu  Sat Oct 12 00:33:03 2002
From: cristina at uchicago.edu (cristina correa)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 17:33:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0210111731360.7308-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>

For a listhost, is there a maxiumum number of people one can authorize to
send mails without the need of being approved? We have about ten names
listed in ours, but for some of the addresses it witholds the messages for
approval regardless!!

Thanks,
cristina



*******************
Cristina Correa
1101 E, 56th St. 128-A
Chicago, IL 60637
(773) 834-9227
*******************




From reply at inmarkon.com  Sat Oct 12 01:40:05 2002
From: reply at inmarkon.com (Michael Ambrosio)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 19:40:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] JPEG Attachments
Message-ID: <E1809O5-0000Yr-00@ns1.mewebdns.com>

The host where I have my list is running Mailman 2.0.11.  The problem 
I have is when you send JPG or GIF attachments, they email fine, but 
they show up in the archives as code.  Any ideas why this does this?
 
Michael Ambrosio
Host Me Pay Me
webmaster at host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you have to host a site, wouldn't it be nice
to earn some extra money too?
 
Host your site. Earn an income.
 
Fat package. Dependable servers. Dedicated
and helpful service staff.
 
http://www.host-me-pay-me.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
10/11/2002

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: checkmark.gif
Type: image/gif
Size: 383 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021011/2aeab1f1/attachment.gif 

From wolf at wolfstream.net  Sat Oct 12 05:47:12 2002
From: wolf at wolfstream.net (Tom Whiting)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:47:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Several Questions about Mailman
In-Reply-To: <sda4208b.015@gwmail.state.sc.us>
References: <sda4208b.015@gwmail.state.sc.us>
Message-ID: <200210112247.12621.wolf@wolfstream.net>

Hello, 
Yes, mailman is free to download, free to use.
How many users and lists can It support? I've heard of 100+ lists with quite a 
number of users on each.
Security is all handled by the server itself, not mailman. How secure the 
distribution is is all dependent on your own server, or the server it sits 
on.
On Wednesday 09 October 2002 11:26 am, Sergey Razin wrote:
> Good Day!
> I have several questions about Mailman that I was unable to find
> answers to on the website.
> I would like to receive some answers to it because I would like to use
> it.
> Is Mailman free? I know that download is free but do you charge
> depending on number of users or number of lists that I will have.
> How many users and lists it can support?
> How is it secure?
>
> Thank you for your help
> Looking forward to hear from you soon.
> Sergey




From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Sat Oct 12 07:12:13 2002
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 22:12:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman: Co-operation with UNESCO
In-Reply-To: <3DA3E878.5075@kkt.bme.hu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0210112209440.9201-100000@gort.cjb.net>

On Oct 9, 2002 at 10:27, V?s?rhelyi P?l wrote:

>- state of development: is there a stable version? Date of Last update?

Yes there is, but you'll have to check the website.

>- support available or planned, such as FAQ, demo version, user manual,
>teacher guide, discussion forum,

There is lots of support, including FAQs, and the mailman-users
mailing list. "Demo version" does not apply as the whole unit is
available for free use.

>- adaptability to local requirements, such as possibility of
>personalisation, using languages else than English, availability of
>counterpart to assist external users..

This exists.

>- Hardware and Informatics knowledge required for use

No hardware knowledge. Software knowledge: installation on a unix-like
system. Sysadmin-level knowledge recommended.

>- Download possibilities, such as server-uptime.

Not understood.

>Your kind co-operation would be a valuable contribution by your
>institution and country to the development of education in countries,
>where this is the crucial task to be solved in order to reduce poverty
>and its consequences.

How does that help?

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
Resistance is useless!	 (if < 1 ohm)




From awagner at speakeasy.net  Sat Oct 12 09:48:22 2002
From: awagner at speakeasy.net (Art)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 00:48:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delayed posts to mailman lists from Netscape/Mozilla browsers
Message-ID: <3DA7D3C6.2040701@speakeasy.net>

I encountered and solved a problem with Netscape 4.xx under Linux 
causing problems when posting to a mailman 1.xx mailing list. Due to a 
problem with how Netscape 4.xx handled headers the postings ended up 
being held for administrative action before being posted to the list. 
This was resolved / fixed by adding a statment to Netscapes prefs.js and 
preferences.js file s to change how Netscape handled headers. I am now 
using Netscape 7.00 and Mozilla 1.2b under Linux and have been noticing 
the same problem again. Can you direct me to a source of the fix for 
this problem under my current browsers?
Art Wagner
Note; I may encounter the problem on this post :<}




From mailman-list at mackinlay.demon.co.uk  Sat Oct 12 16:07:29 2002
From: mailman-list at mackinlay.demon.co.uk (Colin Mackinlay)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:07:29 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin links - changing email address?
Message-ID: <Marcel-1.53-1012140729-0b0hxQ&@demon.co.uk>

Wnen visiting .../mailman/admin I receive, correctly, a page that gives
all the publically advertised lists for that domain i.e.
  domain1.net/mailman/admin shows the 1 list I have there
The "send questions and comments" link points correctly to
  mailman-owner at domain1.net

I have a virtual host for www.domain2.net which also gives correctly its
two public lists. The "send questions..." link points to
  mailman-owner at www.domain2.net

Clearly this page is being generated dynamically from the url used to
visit it - unfortunately this email address is wrong but I can see no
way to edit it.

The "host name this list prefers" for both my domain2.net lists is in
fact lists.domain2.net. Mailman doesn't seem to mind the difference
between the url with www.xxx and the hostname lists.xxx and produces the
list of lists ok but if questions and comments are mailed they should go
to @domain2.net ideally, or to @lists.domain2.net at least.

This must be possible becaus  http://mail.python.org/mailman/admin has
got "questions and comments to" pointing at @python.org i.e. it has
dropped the mail. in the URL when generating the address

How do you do this? I can't find anything in the docs or faq and there
doesn't seem to be a template for this page it must be created by the
cgi-bin/admin program on the fly.


-- 
Colin Mackinlay



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 17:15:25 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 11:15:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
In-Reply-To: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>
References: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <1034435725.1637.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Check the log files for mailman.

Check the space on the server and make sure none of your volumes is too
full.  Then check your lists for the latest subscribers (you should be
able to see the new subscribers in the log files).  See if someone
subscribed using a "full name" <email at address.com> combination.  

Finally, check your qfiles directory and see if there is a malformed
message waiting to be processed.  You might need to move the files out
of there and see if processing continues normally afterward.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 12:41, Matt Filizzi wrote:
> We have two machines running mailman, both setup identical.  Both were 
> running fine up untill a week ago (except for some reason one was 
> marking valid emails as nomail but that's another question), then one of 
> our two servers started sending out the following qrunner error messages 
> everytime qrunner was run.  Also it seems that messages are not being 
> sent from that server anymore.  Nothing has changed configuration wise 
> to cause this.  Any ideas of where to even start looking?
> 
> sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
> sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
> sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
> sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
> sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
> sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
> 
> -- 
> Matt Filizzi
> 
> Michigan Poverty Law Program
> 611 Church Street, Suite 4A
> Ann Arbor, Michigan  48104
> 734.998.6100 x 23
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 17:28:05 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 11:28:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing rejection messages
In-Reply-To: <3DA71728.E4355423@sdsc.edu>
References: <3DA71728.E4355423@sdsc.edu>
Message-ID: <1034436486.1633.13.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Mailman is Open Source, so if you have sysadmin rights to the server
that Mailman is running on, then you can do anything you would like,
including personalizing the standard notices.

The 2.0.x series does not let you do this by default, but you can edit
the Source code.

I think the 2.1.x series (still in Beta, but some folks are running it
in production) allows you to change a lot of the standard notices -
though I don't know if this is one of the ones allowed.

Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 14:23, David Padilla wrote:
> I'm a newbie to Mailman, and I apologize if this question has been answered earlier.  
> 
> Is it possible to edit the standard notices that Mailman sends out when a posting by a non-member is
> held for approval?  I wasn't able to find any way in the FAQ or documentation.  Thanks for any
> help.  
> 
> -- 
> -David Padilla
> -Production Support Programmer
> -The Protein Data Bank
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 17:41:39 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 11:41:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with list member's vacation script
In-Reply-To: <E1805yc-0001IR-00@real.local.evenreal.com>
References: <E1805yc-0001IR-00@real.local.evenreal.com>
Message-ID: <1034437299.1637.25.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is an age-old problem. Some folks use this as an argument to make
the default reply be the sender and not the list. That is one solution,
but not one I like...  

Really the best solution is to teach folks the proper way to setup a
vacation message.  Vacation messages should *only* respond to emails
where either the TO: or CC: of the message has the users email address
in it.

If folks violate this, then drop them off the list (or set them to
"notmetoo")

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 10:18, linux_news at nextphere.com wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I manage a mailing list site with mailman, and I recently had the following 
> problem:
> 
> Lets say I have a list called test at site.org with 3 members: m1 at foo.org, 
> m2 at foo.org and m3 at foo.org. m3 has its vacation script turned on. m1 sends an 
> email to test at site.org, so m2,m3 and m1 itself receive the email. m3's 
> vacation script replies to m1 and to test at site.org, so m1 gets 2 copies of 
> the reply (one directly and one through test at site.org), m2 gets a copy and m1 
> gets a copy of its own reply which in turn will be replied by its vacation 
> script and so on. So my mail server ends up sending a lot of useless emails.
> How can I stop this situation? 
> I know I can reject or hold emails based on some header pattern matching, but 
> I cannot do this on a case by case basis, not all vacation scripts behave the 
> same, so this is not a solution for my problem.
> I was thinking maybe there's a way to configure mailman so that if m1 sends 
> an email to test at site.org mailman will not send a copy of the email back to 
> m1 just because m1 is a list member.
> 
> Also, is there a way to limit the number of postings each member is allowed 
> to sent per day?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -- 
> Gustavo M.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 17:47:12 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 11:47:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anti-SPAM features
In-Reply-To: <001c01c27179$6f472430$3201a8c0@DAVIN>
References: <001c01c27179$6f472430$3201a8c0@DAVIN>
Message-ID: <1034437632.1637.30.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I run Spam Assassin and have no problem with Mailman lists.

If you have problems due to the lack of a specific TO:, then send the
message to your email address and CC: the mailman list.

Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 18:56, Davin Dahlgren wrote:
> Has anyone had any problems with SPAM filters because of the lack of an
> explicit recipient in the To: field? I notice that Mailman itself has an
> option to filter out messages as SPAM if they do not carry an explicit
> recipient, but I am told that Mailman itself has no way to send with
> explicit recipients.
> 
> Does this generally cause problems? Is there a way to set the number of
> recipients per mailing, or is that pretty much hard coded in?
> 
> Davin
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From ptatters at zerobyzero.ca  Sat Oct 12 18:25:04 2002
From: ptatters at zerobyzero.ca (Peter Tattersall)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 12:25:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help with Qmail
In-Reply-To: <6A36A4FF313F4D459920D206EDF68BC707224E@64-42-35-250.atgi.net>
Message-ID: <29F2300C-DDFF-11D6-B57E-0003931C4CFA@zerobyzero.ca>

On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 09:38  PM, Mike Gholson wrote:

> I can create lists and the system notifies me of the
> new list.  I can even log in to the info page and
> sign-up.  The system sends me a confirmation message.
>

Did you set up the qmail aliases when you created the new list? The 
newlist command will tell you the aliases to set up, but doesn't do it 
itself.




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 19:44:12 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 13:44:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] JPG and GIF attachments
In-Reply-To: <E1809HL-0006ss-00@host15.nocdirect.com>
References: <E1809HL-0006ss-00@host15.nocdirect.com>
Message-ID: <1034444653.1633.41.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Pipermail doesn't do a good job with MIME.  You can try setting your
archives to allow MIME.  If it still does not work, then you should look
at using an external archiver like MHonArc
  http://www.mhonarc.org

You don't have to run MHonArc on the server with the lists, it can run
anywhere on the internet - you simply subscribe a user to the lists you
want to archive.  Some folks run archivers as a service.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 19:44, Michael Ambrosio wrote:
> The host where I have my list is running Mailman 
> 2.0.11.  The problem I have is when you send JPG or GIF attachments, 
> they email fine, but they show up in the archives as code.  Any ideas 
> why this does this?
> 
>  
> Michael Ambrosio
> Host Me Pay Me
> webmaster at host-me-pay-me.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> If you have to host a site, wouldn't it be nice
> to earn some extra money too?
>  
> Host your site. Earn an income.
>  
> Fat package. Dependable servers. Dedicated
> and helpful service staff.
>  
> http://www.host-me-pay-me.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 10/11/2002
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:06:11 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:06:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] advertising a list
In-Reply-To: <34194.200.67.148.198.1034389874.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
References: <34194.200.67.148.198.1034389874.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
Message-ID: <1034445971.1637.53.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You've probably already found this, but just in case - Look on the web
admin pages under Privacy options and make sure that your lists are
Advertised.

If that is already checked, then go back to the General page and make
sure that Base URL is matches your "mysite/mailman/".

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 22:31, Armando Soto Baeza wrote:
> I have just configured a test list with mailman 2.0.13, and everything is
> fine, but when visiting the mysite/mailman/listinfo page, I get the
> message  "There currently are no publicly-advertised mailman mailing lists
> on mysite...".
> When I append the list name (/test) it works fine. The question here is:
> what should I do in order to "advertise" a list?
> 
> Thanks in advice guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:19:01 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:19:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] failure to exec script...
In-Reply-To: <20021011131635.GI24723@ision.net>
References: <20021011131635.GI24723@ision.net>
Message-ID: <1034446742.1637.58.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Hmmm... What OS are you running this on?

To fix this, you have to figure out what Group your MTA (sendmail,
postfix, exim, qmail,etc...) runs as, then reconfigure mailman so that
it knows what group ID should be allowed to run the Wrapper program.

Looks like your system is doing some funky things with the Group rights.

Jon Carnes
===
On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 09:16, Frank Altpeter wrote:
> 
> hello!
> 
> Although there are some threads in the mail archive to this problem, i
> think this one is slightly different so i decided to ask here...
> 
> I'm getting the following error:
> 
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----               
> "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"                                         
>     (expanded from: <test at ision.net>)                                           
>                                                                                 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----                                    
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid d, GOT gid d.  (Reconfigure to take d?)      
> 554 "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"... unknown mailer error 2           
>                                                                                 
> 
> Unlike the other posters before, there's a gid of "d" mentioned, where a
> number should be in place...
> 
> Then, mailman has been installed correctly with its own uid and gid:
> 
> uid=5555(mailman) gid=5555(mailman)
> 
> When executing the often mentioned check_perms as user mailman, it says
> that there are no problems found.
> 
> mail:~ $ id
> uid=5555(mailman) gid=5555(mailman)
> mail:~ $ pwd
> /home/mailman
> mail:~ $ ls -laF mail
> total 56
> drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman  mailman      512 Oct 10 15:21 ./
> drwxrwsr-x  18 mailman  mailman      512 Oct 10 15:51 ../
> -rwxr-sr-x   1 mailman  mailman    25904 Oct 10 15:21 wrapper*
> mail:~ $ 
> 
> Any hints on that? I really wanted to get rid of majordomo :-)
> 
> With kind regards,
> 
> 		Frank Altpeter
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:21:58 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:21:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>
References: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>
Message-ID: <1034446918.1637.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 14:20, Michael J. Rieser, MD, PSC wrote:
> How do I set up mailing list so that the individuals who subscribe are not able to send e-mail to all the members in the list. This leaves too much risk for spam in my opinion. Are there other mail-list servers?
> 
> Thank you.
> 

You can set the list to be Moderated, so that all messages must be
approved.  You can also setup a sub-list of email addresses that are
allowed to post to the list without being moderated.

Explore the Web-Admin pages of your Mailman lists.  You will find a lot
of anti-spam functionality.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:27:45 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:27:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mbox files with leading blank line
In-Reply-To: <20021011191330.GA28626@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
References: <20021011191330.GA28626@cthulhu.gerg.ca>
Message-ID: <1034447265.1637.68.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is really not a bug in Mailman - though I think the new series (ver
2.1.x) checks for this condition and "fixes" it.  
I believe this is caused by some Mailers that leave off the From: or
misconfigure it.  This issue was discussed in detail on the list about a
year ago.

Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 15:13, Greg Ward wrote:
> My usual mode of interaction with Mailman is via the command-line --
> this web stuff is just too newfangled.  Thus, whenever I want to look in
> a list's archive, I generally run "mutt -f" on the archive mbox file.
> 
> I have noticed that many Mailman mbox archives are just a tad bogus:
> ie. they start with a blank line rather than a "From " line, eg.
> 
> $ head -2 archives/private/microscope-list.mbox/microscope-list.mbox
> 
> >From microscope-list-admin  Thu Jan 28 10:11:07 1999
> 
> Naturally, mutt complains that this is not a valid mbox file.
> 
> Is this an old bug that was fixed long ago, and does not affect new
> lists?  Or can this still happen with the current Mailman?  (I'm in the
> process of switching from 2.0.12 to 2.1b3+.)
> 
> My usual workaround is to look over both shoulders to make sure no one's
> watching, cross my fingers and hope that no posts come in in the next
> few seconds, and manually remove the offending blank line with a text
> editor.  Is there a better way?
> 
> Thanks --
> 
>         Greg
> -- 
> Greg Ward - software developer                gward at mems-exchange.org
> MEMS Exchange                            http://www.mems-exchange.org
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:31:09 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:31:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman failed script, unexpected GID on Suse
	Linux
In-Reply-To: <1034367247.24517.44.camel@matrix>
References: <1034367247.24517.44.camel@matrix>
Message-ID: <1034447469.1637.72.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Take a look at the FAQ 
 http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

You need to reinstall Mailman and use the switch --mail-gid=2 on your
./configure step.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 16:14, Edmund Young III wrote:
> I am having issues with unexpected GID when attempting to send mail
> through wrapper scripts.
> Any help is appreciated.
> 
> Failure message:
> 
> ===============
> 
> The original message was received at Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:17:10 -0700
> from localhost [127.0.0.1]
> with id g9BHHAGQ000640
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
>     (reason: 2)
>     (expanded from: <test at straylight.toyota.com>)
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 2.  (Reconfigure to
> take 2?)
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2
> -- 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 12 20:35:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 12 Oct 2002 14:35:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0210111731360.7308-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0210111731360.7308-100000@harper.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <1034447752.1633.78.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

There is no "hard" limit to the number of addresses.  I'm going to guess
that your folks have various email addresses that they use (I use about
5).  To be on the safe side, you should add all the various addresses
that your admins use to the field (one address per line).

Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 18:33, cristina correa wrote:
> 
> For a listhost, is there a maxiumum number of people one can authorize to
> send mails without the need of being approved? We have about ten names
> listed in ours, but for some of the addresses it witholds the messages for
> approval regardless!!
> 
> Thanks,
> cristina
> 
> 
> 
> *******************
> Cristina Correa
> 1101 E, 56th St. 128-A
> Chicago, IL 60637
> (773) 834-9227
> *******************
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From campbelc at calweb.com  Sun Oct 13 00:00:41 2002
From: campbelc at calweb.com (Charles E Campbell)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 15:00:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems creating a new list
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012144224.02f32c48@pop.calweb.com>

Hello:

         I am new to mailman administration.  I am taking over a list 
server that has work well for about a year now.  My problem is that now I 
have to create a new mailing list.

         I cd into the mailman/bin directory as root and run . newlist 
useraddress password.  However the program spits out the help information 
and the line that says you can use any number of arguments and you will be 
prompted for the rest.  BTW non of the other scripts in bin work either.

Then I get what looks like a list of commands that can't be found

: File name too long
import:  Unable to connect to X server()
...
bash: from: command not found
...
bash: PROGRAM: command not found
bash: SENDMAIL_ALIAS_TEMPLATE: command not found
bash: QMAIL_ALIAS_TEMPLAT: command not found
bash: STDOUTMSG: command not found
bash: ALASTEMPLATE: command not found
bash: newlist: line 87: syntax error near unexpected token 'string.lower(m'
bash: newlist: line 87 'style = string.lower(mmcfg.MTA_ALIASES_STYLE)'

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?  So I need to be su'd as 
mailman?  I don't have the mailman password so I have been working as root.

Thanks Chuck Campbell

=======================================
Charles E. Campbell Ph.D.

River City Research Group
PO Box 622198
Orangevale, CA 95662

916-988-3501 HOME
916-988-7144 Office
916-988-6092 FAX
916-276-5693 Cell
=======================================
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021012/2009a166/attachment.htm 

From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sun Oct 13 01:47:04 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 17:47:04 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Advertising a list: solved
Message-ID: <33130.200.67.148.250.1034466424.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>

Thanks to all who give me your suggestions.

Expecting it helps someone else, here is an abstract of what should be
done in order to advertise a new list.

1.- Under the privacy options, be sure to check on "Advertise this list
when people ask what lists are on this machine" (indeed I had it).

2.- Under the General Options, be sure to put in the field "Base URL for
Mailman web interface." the right name of your host. In my case, I had it
wrong, cause I did not put the host name, just the domain. (It works fine
to the web service, but not for the mailman).

3.- Enjoy your new list!

Regards





From satyap at satya.virtualave.net  Sun Oct 13 03:20:21 2002
From: satyap at satya.virtualave.net (Satya)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 18:20:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems creating a new list
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012144224.02f32c48@pop.calweb.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0210121818590.14453-100000@gort.cjb.net>

On Oct 12, 2002 at 15:00, Charles E Campbell wrote:

>         I cd into the mailman/bin directory as root and run . newlist 
>useraddress password.  However the program spits out the help information 
>and the line that says you can use any number of arguments and you will be 
>prompted for the rest.  BTW non of the other scripts in bin work either.

>Then I get what looks like a list of commands that can't be found

::spit-take::

You are doing this:

$ . newlist useraddress password

which says, run newlist with the default shell as the script
interpreter.

You want to do this:

$ ./newlist useraddress password

-- 
Satya. <URL:http://satya.virtualave.net/>
ISDN: It Still Does Nothing




From pietro at bastardi.net  Sun Oct 13 03:35:26 2002
From: pietro at bastardi.net (pietro)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 22:35:26 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do i know if local or global password was used?
Message-ID: <3DA8CDDE.7040505@bastardi.net>

hi,

Do i have a way to tell if someone editing a list config was using the 
local list admin password, or the global mailman password?

thanks,
pietro.





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct 13 06:16:30 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 13 Oct 2002 00:16:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems creating a new list
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012144224.02f32c48@pop.calweb.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.2.20021012144224.02f32c48@pop.calweb.com>
Message-ID: <1034482591.1639.21.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 18:00, Charles E Campbell wrote:

> 
> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong?  So I need to be su'd as 
> mailman?  I don't have the mailman password so I have been working as root.
> 
> Thanks Chuck Campbell
> 
Well, if you can login as root, then you can: su mailman
If you are logged in as root, it won't ask you for a password.

Try su-ing as the Mailman user and running the command:
  ~mailman/bin/newlist

You can also reset the password for Mailman by logging in as root and
typing:  passwd mailman

Good Luck - Jon Carnes




From wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu  Sun Oct 13 16:33:44 2002
From: wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu (Paul L. Schumacher)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 09:33:44 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>

What is a good virus (worm) protection tool for mailman?

I have a virus message in the archives now.  How do I remove a single
message from the archives?

thanks much!

-- 
Paul L. Schumacher
Winona State University
Computer Science Department




From michael at james.st  Sun Oct 13 16:48:14 2002
From: michael at james.st (Michael James)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:48:14 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection?
In-Reply-To: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
References: 
 <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
Message-ID: <a05100324b9cf379a1007@[172.16.0.11]>

>What is a good virus (worm) protection tool for mailman?

I'm working on a Mailman, Postfix, Sophos-Mailmonitor-Sweep setup.
Looks good but just got it working so I'll let you know.
-- 
A right not exercised is a privilege
a privilege not exercised is illegal.

Michael James			michael at james.st
8 Brennan St			Phone: +61 2 6247 2556
Hackett, ACT 2602		Mobile: +61 4 1747 4065
AUSTRALIA			Fax: +61 2 6278 0011




From claw at kanga.nu  Sun Oct 13 21:26:12 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:26:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection? 
In-Reply-To: Message from Michael James <michael@james.st> 
   of "Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:48:14 +1000." <a05100324b9cf379a1007@[172.16.0.11]> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>  <a05100324b9cf379a1007@[172.16.0.11]> 
Message-ID: <25194.1034537172@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002 00:48:14 +1000 
Michael James <michael at james.st> wrote:

>> What is a good virus (worm) protection tool for mailman?

> I'm working on a Mailman, Postfix, Sophos-Mailmonitor-Sweep setup.
> Looks good but just got it working so I'll let you know.

I take a multi-fold approach:

  1) Front Mailman with TMDA 

  2) MIME strip all posts

  3) Discard (silently) all messages which end up too short (20 bytes)
  after MIME stripping.

  4) Authenticate against both From: and envelope (TMDA and Mailman)

Since I added the TMDA setup my rate of SPAM and virus messages hitting
the moderation interface (all my lists are hand moderated) has fallen
from 20 - 30 a day to a grand total of two messages in the last three
months.  Quite an improvement.

MIME stripping, which I implemented before TMDA, castrates all virus and
the majority of SPAM, often whacking them down so hard that they fail
the 20 byte rule and are discarded silently.  The fat that it also makes
posts that I want on my lists (no HTML etc), is also pleasant.

Authentication against both From: and Envelope was useful in Mailman,
but was a real gainer when it came along with TMDA.  That, more so than
the TMDA whitelist filtering, is what cleaned up my message stream.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu  Sun Oct 13 21:37:40 2002
From: wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu (Paul L. Schumacher)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 14:37:40 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection? 
In-Reply-To: <25194.1034537172@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210131437240.30451-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>

thanks so much.

Paul L. Schumacher
Winona State University
Computer Science Department




From eric at themepark.com  Sun Oct 13 21:44:51 2002
From: eric at themepark.com (Eric Mueller)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 12:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Segmenting subscribers
Message-ID: <005501c272f1$029fff40$6601a8c0@toshiba>

Hi, quick question - I'm looking into adopting mailman to handling some
annoucement lists, but I need a way to "segment" users-- that is, when
folks subscribe, they would be able to mark themselves as part of group
A, group B and/or group C. Then, when sending out an annoucement to the
list, the person sending should be able to specify which groups it
should go to (for example, "all the people in groups A and C"). Bounces
and so forth should be handled normally since ultimately it's just one
big list on the back end, not three separate lists. Can Mailman do this,
or can anyone refer me to a system that can?
 
best
Eric Mueller
http://themepark.com
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021013/87243c87/attachment.html 

From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 01:40:32 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 13 Oct 2002 19:40:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Segmenting subscribers
In-Reply-To: <005501c272f1$029fff40$6601a8c0@toshiba>
References: <005501c272f1$029fff40$6601a8c0@toshiba>
Message-ID: <1034552433.10088.8.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

What an odd question... You can certainly setup three lists and then a
master list (called an umbrella list).  Folks could then send to any of
the lists they wanted - individual lists or the master/umbrella list.

On Sun, 2002-10-13 at 15:44, Eric Mueller wrote:
> Hi, quick question - I'm looking into adopting mailman to handling some
> annoucement lists, but I need a way to "segment" users-- that is, when
> folks subscribe, they would be able to mark themselves as part of group
> A, group B and/or group C. Then, when sending out an annoucement to the
> list, the person sending should be able to specify which groups it
> should go to (for example, "all the people in groups A and C"). Bounces
> and so forth should be handled normally since ultimately it's just one
> big list on the back end, not three separate lists. Can Mailman do this,
> or can anyone refer me to a system that can?
>  
> best
> Eric Mueller
> http://themepark.com
>  





From wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu  Mon Oct 14 01:40:46 2002
From: wnpauls at linux2.winona.msus.edu (Paul L. Schumacher)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:40:46 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing one message from the archives ???
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210131839550.31792-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>

How do I remove one message from the archives?  It is a worm!

thanks,

-- 
Paul L. Schumacher
Winona State University
Computer Science Department




From mailman at whitworks.com  Mon Oct 14 01:52:37 2002
From: mailman at whitworks.com (mailman at whitworks.com)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:52:37 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210131839550.31792-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210131850150.12069-100000@host.whitworks.com>

qrunner is showing all kinds of lock files all of a sudden.  The server 
had some "issues" today and had been rebooted a couple of times - then the 
lock files appeared.  Do I need to restart something with Mailman?  It 
looks like messages aren't coming thru.  I'm using 2.0.13

Thanks in advance
Valerie




From tom at element117.com  Mon Oct 14 02:03:37 2002
From: tom at element117.com (Thomas Oakes)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:03:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing one message from the archives ???
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210131839550.31792-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
Message-ID: <NEBBKNAEEHJFKKFKODNBEEKCEBAA.tom@element117.com>

Try this FAQs.
I just followed this the other day to remove a few messages.
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp

==Tom==

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Paul L. Schumacher
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2002 7:41 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing one message from the archives ???


How do I remove one message from the archives?  It is a worm!

thanks,

--
Paul L. Schumacher
Winona State University
Computer Science Department


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Oct 14 02:47:41 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 18:47:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210131850150.12069-100000@host.whitworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DAA142D.68B3978@pcraft.com>

mailman at whitworks.com wrote:

> qrunner is showing all kinds of lock files all of a sudden.  The server
> had some "issues" today and had been rebooted a couple of times - then the
> lock files appeared.  Do I need to restart something with Mailman?  It
> looks like messages aren't coming thru.  I'm using 2.0.13

    Just delete those lock files.

--
W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From mailman at whitworks.com  Mon Oct 14 02:53:32 2002
From: mailman at whitworks.com (WhitmoreWebWorks)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 19:53:32 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
In-Reply-To: <3DAA142D.68B3978@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210131952060.11860-100000@host.whitworks.com>


> 
>     Just delete those lock files.
> 

Well, I had done that - but more kept coming.  For the same lists that had 
developed lock files.  Should I be checking those individual lists for 
errors?  Sorry - I just am not sure where I should be looking to fix this 
mess.

-valerie




From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Oct 14 04:19:46 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:19:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210131952060.11860-100000@host.whitworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DAA29C2.1349F88C@pcraft.com>

WhitmoreWebWorks wrote:

> Well, I had done that - but more kept coming.  For the same lists that had
> developed lock files.  Should I be checking those individual lists for
> errors?  Sorry - I just am not sure where I should be looking to fix this
> mess.

    Mailman creates lock files whenever it's accessing the config.db file.  This
happens both through qrunner, as well as any access to the web interface.  The
difference is that the web interface creates short lock files - short in the
sense that they will get deleted as soon as that task is done (whether you're
logging in, or viewing one of the membership pages.)

    Qrunner on the other hand creates a lock file for as long as it needs it -
and it's that length of time that may be a problem.  If it's taking more than
(the default) 5 minutes for qrunner to finish its task, that lock file can
become stale when cron fires off a second qrunner task.

    One thing you could do is this:  temporarily remove the qrunner task from
cron.  Then manually try to run it and see how long it takes.  If it takes a
while to run, you may have to adjust your cron time.

--
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From mailman at whitworks.com  Mon Oct 14 04:47:07 2002
From: mailman at whitworks.com (WhitmoreWebWorks)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:47:07 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question 
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132146520.15175-100000@host.whitworks.com>


Hmmm...well, it doesn't seem to be recreating those lock files now - but 
still no mail is coming thru.  

I'm at a loss as to what to try next.  The server has been hanging on 
processes all day (non mailman ones too).  

I'm still learning all the server stuff (I really never wanted to manage a 
server but had no choice!).  How do I check the cron entries to see if 
they are working?  Where else would you recommend looking for problems?  
Everything was working fine until this morning.  I had to kill a qrunner 
process that wouldn't "let go" and overloaded the server.  I then upgraded 
CPanel - which automatically upgraded mailman from 2.0.11 to 2.0.13.  Then 
- nothing worked.


On Sun, 13 Oct 2002, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:

> WhitmoreWebWorks wrote:
> 
> > Well, I had done that - but more kept coming.  For the same lists that had
> > developed lock files.  Should I be checking those individual lists for
> > errors?  Sorry - I just am not sure where I should be looking to fix this
> > mess.
> 
>     Mailman creates lock files whenever it's accessing the config.db file.  This
> happens both through qrunner, as well as any access to the web interface.  The
> difference is that the web interface creates short lock files - short in the
> sense that they will get deleted as soon as that task is done (whether you're
> logging in, or viewing one of the membership pages.)
> 
>     Qrunner on the other hand creates a lock file for as long as it needs it -
> and it's that length of time that may be a problem.  If it's taking more than
> (the default) 5 minutes for qrunner to finish its task, that lock file can
> become stale when cron fires off a second qrunner task.
> 
>     One thing you could do is this:  temporarily remove the qrunner task from
> cron.  Then manually try to run it and see how long it takes.  If it takes a
> while to run, you may have to adjust your cron time.
> 
> --
> H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
>   +--------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
>   IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
>   Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
>   http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> 





From tmann at black.ils.unc.edu  Mon Oct 14 04:53:53 2002
From: tmann at black.ils.unc.edu (Tommy Mann)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:53:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives problem (install)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132250210.18220-100000@black.ils.unc.edu>

Hello,

I've just installed Mailman on my Linux box -- great app!  I can't get the 
archives to work though -- I get a page not found error when I visit:
http://black.ils.unc.edu:8080/pipermail/test/  <-- test is my testing mail 
list

Here's what I've added to the httpd.conf file:
=====================
Alias /pipermail/ "/home/mailman/achives/public/"

<Directory "/home/mailman/archives/public/">
  Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>
====================

Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong or what I'm missing??  Thanks!

Tommy
tmann at black.ils.unc.edu






From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Oct 14 04:51:04 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 20:51:04 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132146520.15175-100000@host.whitworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DAA3118.A6C9B015@pcraft.com>

WhitmoreWebWorks wrote:

> I'm at a loss as to what to try next.  The server has been hanging on
> processes all day (non mailman ones too).

    This is bad.  Have you tried restarting the server?

--
H | "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser." - John Gardner
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From mailman at whitworks.com  Mon Oct 14 05:02:28 2002
From: mailman at whitworks.com (WhitmoreWebWorks)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 22:02:28 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
In-Reply-To: <3DAA3118.A6C9B015@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132159340.15175-100000@host.whitworks.com>

> 
>     This is bad.  Have you tried restarting the server?

Yes.  Restarted apache, then rebooted the server (when that didn't seem to 
do it).  The techies at the hosting company didn't have a solution 
(weekend crew, what do you expect!) so I'm hoping the regulars will have 
some feedback for me tomorrow.  Do you think there could be something 
wrong with the server that is doing this?

-valerie




From ashley at pcraft.com  Mon Oct 14 05:14:33 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 21:14:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132159340.15175-100000@host.whitworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DAA3698.AAEFA790@pcraft.com>

WhitmoreWebWorks wrote:

> Do you think there could be something
> wrong with the server that is doing this?

    The fact that you have processes that are hanging (besides just mailman), yes.

--
H | "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser." - John Gardner
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From michael at james.st  Mon Oct 14 07:20:48 2002
From: michael at james.st (Michael James)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:20:48 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Perl scripts to convert Listproc lists to Mailman
Message-ID: <a05100331b9cffe00b6f3@[172.16.0.11]>

Dear Mailman-users,

Here is the 3rd perl-script
 mainly aimed at porting lists from Listproc to Mailman,
 but this one makes no reference to listproc.
It just changes the settings on a number of lists.

When lists are created using "newlist"
 they come up with unacceptably loose permissions.

In descending order of disasterousness:

The list is postable-to by anybody.
	member_posting_only = 0

The list is not moderated
	moderated = 0

These 2 options mean anyone can spam the list.
And whether it's malicious, objectionable or infected; it's bad.

Other settings you might like to tighten up a bit:

The subscription list is viewable by anybody.
	private_roster = 0

The archives are public.
	archive_private = 0

There is a file Mailman/Defaults.py where you can set your own defaults
 but under member_posting_only = 1 it says "When it works".
Not encouraging!

Hence this script.

Edit the formal variables at the beginning to suit your site.
Edit the defaults after __DATA__ to suit your taste.

run:   set-list-defaults list of lists
 or:	set-list-defaults ALL

It will ask you before it changes anything, stop it there
 and look at the file tmp/defaults_for_all_lists
 to see what was about to happen.


The next installment will debrief Listproc
 and configure individual Mailman lists accordingly.
If there is enough interest, I'll look at archives.

michaelj


Perl follows:



#!/usr/local/bin/perl

$LISTPROC       = '/home/alianet/server';
$MAILMAN        = '/usr/lib/mailman';
$TMP_DIR        = 'tmp';
$DEFAULTS       = "$TMP_DIR/defaults_for_all_lists";

$VI             = '/bin/vi';
$LIST_LISTS     = "$MAILMAN/bin/list_lists";
$CONFIG_LIST    = "$MAILMAN/bin/config_list";


@ARGV or die "Usage: $0 list [list] etc...\n",
        "   or: $0 ALL [-list_to_leave_out]\n";


# Get the DATA from the end of this file
#  and cook up the defaults file to be loaded for each list.
-d $TMP_DIR or mkdir $TMP_DIR;
open(OUT, "> $DEFAULTS") or die "Can't write $DEFAULTS\n";
while (<DATA>)
{       chop;
        /^\s*$/ and next;       # ignore blank lines
        /^\s*#/ and next;       # and comments
        print OUT $_, "\n";
}
close OUT;


# Now get all the lists present into %all_lists
open(IN, "$LIST_LISTS |") or
        die "Can't list lists with $LIST_LISTS\n";
my $Name, %all_lists;
while (<IN>)
{       chop;

        s/ matching mailing lists found:/ Mailing Lists present./ and do
        {       print $_, "\n";
                next;
        };

        s/^\s+//;       # shave leading whitespace
        s/\s+-\s.*$//;  # take off description
        $Name = $_;     # keep capitalization
        tr/A-Z/a-z/;    # Canonicalize name by lowercasing it

        # My test for a valid list name:
        #       at least 2 characters
        #       begins with alpha
        #       alphanumeric, "-" and ".";
        if ( /../ and /^[a-zA-Z]/ and ! /[^-.\w\d]/ )
                { $all_lists{$_} = $Name; }
        else
        {       warn "Illegal list name $Name\n";
                next;
        }
}

# Work out from the command line which lists to do
my($count, %todo_list) = 0;
foreach (@ARGV)
{
        # Add it or delete it?
        $delete = 0;
        s/^-// and ++$delete;

        /^ALL$/ and do
        {       $delete and die "What's this '-ALL' nonsense?\n",
                        "You can only subtract lists one at a time\n";

                foreach (keys(%all_lists))
                {       ++$count;
                        $todo_list{$_} = $all_lists{$_};
                }
                next;
        };

        $Name = $_;
        tr/A-Z/a-z/;

        $all_lists{$_} or die "We don't have a list '$Name'\n";

        if ( $delete )
        {       $all_lists{$_} and delete($all_lists{$_});
                $todo_list{$_} and delete($todo_list{$_}) and --$count;
                next;
        }

        ++$count;
        $todo_list{$_} = $Name;
}

print "About to set defaults for $count lists:\n";
foreach (sort(keys(%todo_list))) { print "\t$todo_list{$_}\n"; }
print "  Procede?  ";
my $ok = <STDIN>;
$ok =~ /^y/ or die "Nothing changed.\n";

# Actually do it
print "Changing these options:\n";
my @options = ('-v', '-i');     # run verbose first time
foreach (sort(keys(%todo_list)))
{
        system $CONFIG_LIST, @options, $DEFAULTS, $_;
        @options = ('-i');      # no more -v after first run
}

__DATA__


## This is the defaults that will get set on all lists.
## captured on Mon Oct 14 10:58:19 200^2

## General options
#
# Fundamental list characteristics, including descriptive info and basic
# behaviors.

# welcome message.  The rest of the welcome message already describes
# the important addresses and URLs for the mailing list, so you don't
# need to include any of that kind of stuff here.  This should just
# contain mission-specific kinds of things, like etiquette policies or
# team orientation, or that kind of thing.
#welcome_msg = ''

# Text sent to people leaving the list.  If empty, no special text will
# be added to the unsubscribe message.
#goodbye_msg = "Trying wasn't it..."

# This option controls what Mailman does to the Reply-To:
# header in messages flowing through this mailing list.
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Poster"
#    1 = "This list"    # BAD BAD BAD
#    2 = "Explicit address"
reply_goes_to_list = 0

# This is the address set in the Reply-To: header when the
# last option is set to 2  (Explicit address).
# 
#reply_to_address = ''

# Administrivia tests will check postings to see whether it's really
# meant as an administrative request (like subscribe, unsubscribe, etc),
# and will add it to the the administrative requests queue, notifying
# the  administrator of the new request, in the process. 
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
administrivia = 1

# Send monthly password reminders or no? Overrides the previous option.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
send_reminders = 1

# Turn this on only if you plan on subscribing people manually and don't
# want them to know that you did so.  This option is most useful for
# transparently migrating lists from some other mailing list manager to
# Mailman.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
send_welcome_msg = 1

# List admins are sent daily reminders of pending admin approval
# requests, like subscriptions to a moderated list or postings that are
# being held for one reason or another.  Setting this option causes
# notices to be sent immediately on the arrival of new requests, as
# well.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
admin_immed_notify = 1

# Should administrator get notices of subscribes/unsubscribes?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
admin_notify_mchanges = 1

# Approval notices are sent when mail triggers certain of the limits
# <em>except</em> routine list moderation and spam filters, for which
# notices are <em>not</em> sent.  This option overrides ever sending the
# notice.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Yes"
#    1 = "No"
dont_respond_to_post_requests = 0

# Maximum length in Kb of a message body.  Use 0 for no limit.
max_message_size = 40

# The host_name is the preferred name for email to mailman-related
# addresses on this host, and generally should be the mail host's
# exchanger address, if any.  This setting can be useful for selecting
# among alternative names of a host that has multiple addresses.
host_name = 'lists.alia.org.au'

# This is the common root for all Mailman URLs referencing this
#  mailing list.  It is also used in the listinfo overview
# of mailing lists to identify whether or not this list
# resides on the virtual host identified by the overview
web_page_url = 'http://lists.alia.org.au/mailman/'

## Privacy options
#
# List access policies, including anti-spam measures, covering members
# and outsiders.  (See also the <a
# href="http://lists.alia.org.au/mailman/admin/experimental/archive">Archival 
# Options section</a> for separate archive-privacy settings.)

# Advertise this list when people ask what lists are on this machine?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
advertised = 1

# confirm (*) - email confirmation required <br>require approval -
# require list administrator approval for subscriptions
# <br>confirm+approval - both confirm and approve<p> (*) when someone
# requests a subscription, mailman sends them a notice with a unique
# subscription request number that they must reply to in order to
# subscribe.<br> This prevents mischievous (or malicious) people from
# creating subscriptions for others without their consent.
#
# legal values are:
#    1 = "confirm"
#    2 = "require approval"
#    3 = "confirm+approval"
subscribe_policy = 3

# When set, the list of subscribers is protected by member or admin
# password authentication.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Anyone"
#    1 = "List members"
#    2 = "List admin only"
private_roster = 2

# Setting this option causes member email addresses to be transformed
# when they are presented on list web pages (both in text and as links),
# so they're not trivially recognizable as email addresses.  The
# intention is to to prevent the addresses from being snarfed up by
# automated web scanners for use by spammers.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
obscure_addresses = 1

# Must posts be approved by an administrator?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
moderated = 1

# Use this option if you want to restrict posting to list members. If
# you want list members to be able to post, plus a handful of other
# posters, see the <i> posters </i> setting below
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
member_posting_only = 1

# Adding entries here will have one of two effects, according to whether
# another option restricts posting to members. <ul> <li> If
# <i>member_posting_only</i> is 'yes', then entries added here will have
# posting privilege in addition to list members. <li> If
# <i>member_posting_only</i> is 'no', then <em>only</em> the posters
# listed here will be able to post without admin approval. </ul>
posters = []

# Many (in fact, most) spams do not explicitly name their myriad
# destinations in the explicit destination addresses - in fact, often
# the to field has a totally bogus address for obfuscation.  The
# constraint applies only to the stuff in the address before the '@'
# sign, but still catches all such spams.<p>The cost is that the list
# will not accept unhindered any postings relayed from other addresses,
# unless <ol> <li>The relaying address has the same name, or <li>The
# relaying address name is included on the options that specifies
# acceptable aliases for the list. </ol>
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
require_explicit_destination = 1

# Alternate addresses that are acceptable when
# `require_explicit_destination' is enabled.  This option takes a list
# of regular expressions, one per line, which is matched against every
# recipient address in the message.  The matching is performed with
# Python's re.match() function, meaning they are anchored to the start
# of the string. <p>For backwards compatibility with Mailman 1.1, if the
# regexp does not contain an `@', then the pattern is matched against
# just the local part of the recipient address.  If that match fails, or
# if the pattern does contain an `@', then the pattern is matched
# against the entire recipient address.  <p>Matching against the local
# part is deprecated; in a future release, the pattern will always be
# matched against the  entire recipient address.
acceptable_aliases = ''

# If a posting has this number, or more, of recipients, it is held for
# admin approval.  Use 0 for no ceiling.
max_num_recipients = 10

# Email addresses whose posts should always be held for approval, no
# matter what other options you have set. See also the subsequent option
# which applies to arbitrary content of arbitrary headers.
forbidden_posters = ['virus.scan']

# Use this option to prohibit posts according to specific header values.
# The target value is a regular-expression for matching against the
# specified header.  The match is done disregarding letter case.  Lines
# beginning with '#' are ignored as comments.<p>For example:<pre>to:
# .*@public.com </pre> says to hold all postings with a <em>to</em> mail
# header containing '@public.com' anywhere among the addresses.<p>Note
# that leading whitespace is trimmed from the regexp.  This can be
# circumvented in a number of ways, eg by escaping or bracketing it.<p>
# See also the <em>forbidden_posters</em> option for a related
# mechanism.
#bounce_matching_headers ="""# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
#to: friend at public.com
#message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
#from: list at listme.com
#from: .*@uplinkpro.com
#"""

# Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address
# (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields)
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
anonymous_list = 0

## Nondigest options
#
# Policies concerning immediately delivered list traffic.

# Can subscribers choose to receive mail immediately, rather than in
# batched digests?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
nondigestable = 1

# Text prepended to the top of every immediately-delivery message. This
# text can include <b><code>%(attribute)s</code></b> format strings
# which are resolved against the list's attributes.  For details, see <a
# href="http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html">Python's 
# string formatting rules</a>.  Some useful attributes are:
# 
# <ul>
#     <li><b><code>real_name</code></b> - The `pretty' name of the list;
# usually
#     the list name with capitalization.
# 
#     <li><b><code>_internal_name</code></b> - The name by which the
# list is
#     identified in URLs, where case is significant.
# 
#     <li><b><code>host_name</code></b> - The fully qualified domain
# name
#     that the list server runs on.
# 
#     <li><b><code>web_page_url</code></b> - The base URL for Mailman.
# This
#     can be appended with,
#     e.g. <em><code>listinfo/%(_internal_name)s</code></em> to yield
# the
#     listinfo page for the mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>description</code></b> - The brief description of the
#     mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>info</code></b> - The full description of the mailing
#     list.
# </ul>
# 
#msg_header = ''

# Text appended to the bottom of every immediately-delivery message.
# This text can include <b><code>%(attribute)s</code></b> format strings
# which are resolved against the list's attributes.  For details, see <a
# href="http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html">Python's 
# string formatting rules</a>.  Some useful attributes are:
# 
# <ul>
#     <li><b><code>real_name</code></b> - The `pretty' name of the list;
# usually
#     the list name with capitalization.
# 
#     <li><b><code>_internal_name</code></b> - The name by which the
# list is
#     identified in URLs, where case is significant.
# 
#     <li><b><code>host_name</code></b> - The fully qualified domain
# name
#     that the list server runs on.
# 
#     <li><b><code>web_page_url</code></b> - The base URL for Mailman.
# This
#     can be appended with,
#     e.g. <em><code>listinfo/%(_internal_name)s</code></em> to yield
# the
#     listinfo page for the mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>description</code></b> - The brief description of the
#     mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>info</code></b> - The full description of the mailing
#     list.
# </ul>
# 
#msg_footer ="""_______________________________________________
#%(real_name)s mailing list
#%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
#%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
#"""

## Digest options
#
# Batched-delivery digest characteristics.

# Can list members choose to receive list traffic bunched in digests?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
digestable = 1

# Which delivery mode is the default for new users?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Regular"
#    1 = "Digest"
digest_is_default = 0

# When receiving digests, which format is default?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Plain"
#    1 = "Mime"
mime_is_default_digest = 0

# How big in Kb should a digest be before it gets sent out?
digest_size_threshhold = 30

# Should a digest be dispatched daily when the size threshold isn't
# reached?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
digest_send_periodic = 1

# Text attached (as an initial message, before the table of contents) to
# the top of digests. This text can include
# <b><code>%(attribute)s</code></b> format strings which are resolved
# against the list's attributes.  For details, see <a
# href="http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html">Python's 
# string formatting rules</a>.  Some useful attributes are:
# 
# <ul>
#     <li><b><code>real_name</code></b> - The `pretty' name of the list;
# usually
#     the list name with capitalization.
# 
#     <li><b><code>_internal_name</code></b> - The name by which the
# list is
#     identified in URLs, where case is significant.
# 
#     <li><b><code>host_name</code></b> - The fully qualified domain
# name
#     that the list server runs on.
# 
#     <li><b><code>web_page_url</code></b> - The base URL for Mailman.
# This
#     can be appended with,
#     e.g. <em><code>listinfo/%(_internal_name)s</code></em> to yield
# the
#     listinfo page for the mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>description</code></b> - The brief description of the
#     mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>info</code></b> - The full description of the mailing
#     list.
# </ul>
# 
#digest_header = ''

# Text attached (as a final message) to the bottom of digests. This text
# can include <b><code>%(attribute)s</code></b> format strings which are
# resolved against the list's attributes.  For details, see <a
# href="http://www.python.org/doc/current/lib/typesseq-strings.html">Python's 
# string formatting rules</a>.  Some useful attributes are:
# 
# <ul>
#     <li><b><code>real_name</code></b> - The `pretty' name of the list;
# usually
#     the list name with capitalization.
# 
#     <li><b><code>_internal_name</code></b> - The name by which the
# list is
#     identified in URLs, where case is significant.
# 
#     <li><b><code>host_name</code></b> - The fully qualified domain
# name
#     that the list server runs on.
# 
#     <li><b><code>web_page_url</code></b> - The base URL for Mailman.
# This
#     can be appended with,
#     e.g. <em><code>listinfo/%(_internal_name)s</code></em> to yield
# the
#     listinfo page for the mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>description</code></b> - The brief description of the
#     mailing list.
# 
#     <li><b><code>info</code></b> - The full description of the mailing
#     list.
# </ul>
# 
#digest_footer ="""_______________________________________________
#%(real_name)s mailing list
#%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
#%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
#"""

## Bounce options
#
# Policies regarding systematic processing of bounce messages, to help
# automate recognition and handling of defunct addresses.

# Try to figure out error messages automatically? 
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
bounce_processing = 1

# Minimum number of days an address has been non-fatally bad before we
# take action
minimum_removal_date = 7

# Minimum number of posts to the list since members first bounce before
# we consider removing them from the list
minimum_post_count_before_bounce_action = 5

# Maximum number of messages your list gets in an hour.  (Yes, bounce
# detection finds this info useful)
max_posts_between_bounces = 5

# Action when critical or excessive bounces are detected.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Do nothing"
#    1 = "Disable and notify me"
#    2 = "Disable and DON'T notify me"
#    3 = "Remove and notify me"
automatic_bounce_action = 1

## Archive options
#
# List traffic archival policies.

# Archive messages?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
archive = 1

# Is archive file source for public or private archival?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "public"
#    1 = "private"
archive_private = 1

# Set date in archive to when the mail is claimed to have been sent, or
# to the time we resend it?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "When sent"
#    1 = "When resent"
clobber_date = 0

# How often should a new archive volume be started?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "Yearly"
#    1 = "Monthly"
#    2 = "Quarterly"
#    3 = "Weekly"
#    4 = "Daily"
archive_volume_frequency = 1

## Gateway options
#
# Mail-to-News and News-to-Mail gateway services.

# The News server is not part of Mailman proper.  You have to already
# have access to a NNTP server, and that NNTP server has to recognize
# the machine this mailing list runs on as a machine capable of reading
# and posting news.
nntp_host = ''

# The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from.
linked_newsgroup = ''

# Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
gateway_to_news = 0

# Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
gateway_to_mail = 0

## Autoreply options
#
# Auto-responder characteristics.<p>
# 
# In the text fields below, Python %(string)s interpolation is performed
# with the following key/value substitutions: <p><ul>
#     <li><b>%(listname)s</b> - <em>gets the name of the mailing
# list</em>
#     <li><b>%(listurl)s</b> - <em>gets the list's listinfo URL</em>
#     <li><b>%(requestemail)s</b> - <em>gets the list's -request
# address</em>
#     <li><b>%(adminemail)s</b> - <em>gets the list's -admin
# address</em>
#     <li><b>%(owneremail)s</b> - <em>gets the list's -owner
# address</em>
# </ul>
# 
# <p>For each text field, you can either enter the text directly into
# the text box, or you can specify a file on your local system to upload
# as the text.

# Should Mailman send an auto-response to mailing list posters?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
autorespond_postings = 0

# Auto-response text to send to mailing list posters.
autoresponse_postings_text = ''

# Should Mailman send an auto-response to emails sent to the -admin and
# -owner addresses?
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes"
autorespond_admin = 0

# Auto-response text to send to -admin and -owner emails.
autoresponse_admin_text = ''

# Should Mailman send an auto-response to emails sent to the -request
# address?  If you choose yes, decide whether you want Mailman to
# discard the original email, or forward it on to the system as a normal
# mail command.
#
# legal values are:
#    0 = "No"
#    1 = "Yes, w/discard"
#    2 = "Yes, w/forward"
autorespond_requests = 0

# Auto-response text to send to -request emails.
autoresponse_request_text = ''

# Number of days between auto-responses to either the mailing list or
# -admin/-owner address from the same poster.  Set to zero (or negative)
# for no grace period (i.e. auto-respond to every message).
autoresponse_graceperiod = 90

michaelj at flat /usr/lib/mailman/                                                                     # 
-- 




From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct 14 07:28:48 2002
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:28:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hey Jon, here's something for your FAQ entry for Mailman..
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021014012844.017ce1b0@mail.wingfoot.org>

Hey Jon--

First--thank you for pointing me to your entry in the FAQ--it was exactly 
what I was looking for!! :)

Now, I'd like to give back .. :)

I have a suggested addition for that entry: FAQ # 3.7, Setting up Web 
access using MM list passwords - for Apache...

Here's a Perl script that creates a Makefile that you can call in your 
crontab to rebuild htpasswd files for all of your lists... I figured since 
you pointed me towards this FAQ, I'd share what I did with it so far.. :)

I hope you find this useful.. it's my first perl script!

I'm sure this can be made even better... but this is what I have so far.. 
:) Suggestions/etc are always welcomed and encouraged!

Thanks again!
Glenn

Suggested addendum for FAQ Entry 3.7:

To automate this procedure, I first made a wrapper for Mailman's newlist 
that consists of:

#!/bin/sh
/etc/mailman/bin/newlist
/adm/bin/mm_make_htaccess.pl
--

So whenever you create a new mailing list, it will recreate the Makefile 
which will keep your htaccess passwords for your lists up to date. Put in 
whatever output options you usually use for newlist.

Here is a perl script that creates the Makefile to do all the work for you:

#!/usr/bin/perl
###############
##
## mm_make_htaccess.pl
##
## Create $file_dir/Makefile for Mailman use.
## version 1.0
## by ges, 10/12/2002
##
## This script is designed to take the directory names
## from ~mailman/lists and put them into a Makefile
## which, when run, will create htpasswd files for
## all your mailman lists, for use in Apache.
##
###############
##
## First we define where Mailman lists reside.
##
## Then we define what directory the Makefile
## lives in, as well as where the htpasswd files
## will live.
##
## Then we will set a variable to change for
## admins using Mailman 2.1 or 2.0
##
## Change $configext to be db for 2.0
## or pck for 2.1
##
$list_dir="/etc/mailman/lists";
$file_dir="/etc/httpd";
$configext="pck";
##
## First let's open the list directory!
## Once that's done, we'll read the filenames into @names
## for later use!
##
opendir(LISTDIR,$list_dir) || die("Cannot Open $list_dir!");
@lists = readdir(LISTDIR);
closedir(LISTDIR);
##
## Now we open the makefile
##
open(MAKEFILE,">$file_dir/Makefile") || die("Cannot Open File");
         print MAKEFILE "\n\nall: mailmanstuff\n\n";
         print MAKEFILE "mailmanstuff: ";
                 foreach $list (@lists)
                 {
                         next if ($list eq ".");
                         next if ($list eq "..");
                         print MAKEFILE "$file_dir/htpasswd.$list ";
                         next;
                 }
         $list="";
         print MAKEFILE "\n\n";
                 foreach $list (@lists)
                 {
                         next if ($list eq ".");
                         next if ($list eq "..");
                         print MAKEFILE "$file_dir/htpasswd.$list: ";
                         print MAKEFILE "$list_dir/$list/config.$configext\n";
                         print MAKEFILE "\t/home/adm/bin/mm_htaccess 
$list\n\n";
                         next;
                 }
close(MAKEFILE)
--
Change the variables at the beginning of the script to match your 
installation of Mailman (I put a symlink in /etc to make it easier for me 
to get to).

Now we create a small shell script:

#!/bin/sh
cd /etc/httpd
make
--

Change /etc/httpd to match $file_dir from the perl script. Put this shell 
script into your crontab to run every 10 minutes or so--remember--it's a 
Makefile, so it won't actually do anything if the files haven't changed!

Now, just run your wrapper when you make new lists on Mailman, and every 10 
minutes the htpasswd files will be created using Jon Carnes' mm_htaccess 
script!

--ges 10/13/02
ges at wingfoot.org


---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From mark at good-stuff.co.uk  Mon Oct 14 11:12:25 2002
From: mark at good-stuff.co.uk (Mark Goodge)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:12:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20021014100555.00a93800@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>

Hi,

I run several mailing lists, all of which have posting restricted to 
members only, some of which require approval for subscriptions and one of 
which is moderated (requires posts to be approved). This means there are 
quite a lot of administrative requests to be dealt with every day.

One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the number of 
non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin queues waiting to be 
discarded. As I only ever want to discard them, never forward them, approve 
them or reply to them, I would prefer them to be silently dropped by 
Mailman without them ever reaching the admin requests queue. However, I 
can't find any way in the configs to do this. Am I missing something, or is 
there an undocumented feature that will allow this? Or is it simply not 
possible with Mailman? (in which case, I'm going to have to go back to 
Majordomo, which does allow non-member posts to be silently discarded).

Thanks

Mark




From j.wards at sportnetwork.net  Mon Oct 14 11:19:15 2002
From: j.wards at sportnetwork.net (John Wards)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 10:19:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20021014100555.00a93800@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20021014100555.00a93800@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200210141019.15114.j.wards@sportnetwork.net>

Up grade to the Beta version it has that feature

John

On Monday 14 Oct 2002 10:12 am, Mark Goodge wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I run several mailing lists, all of which have posting restricted to
> members only, some of which require approval for subscriptions and one of
> which is moderated (requires posts to be approved). This means there are
> quite a lot of administrative requests to be dealt with every day.
>
> One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the number of
> non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin queues waiting to be
> discarded. As I only ever want to discard them, never forward them, approve
> them or reply to them, I would prefer them to be silently dropped by
> Mailman without them ever reaching the admin requests queue. However, I
> can't find any way in the configs to do this. Am I missing something, or is
> there an undocumented feature that will allow this? Or is it simply not
> possible with Mailman? (in which case, I'm going to have to go back to
> Majordomo, which does allow non-member posts to be silently discarded).
>
> Thanks
>
> Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 15:08:06 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 09:08:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP Problem
In-Reply-To: <000e01c19385$e71f82e0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
References: <000e01c19385$e71f82e0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
Message-ID: <1034600887.1638.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If I read that warning correctly, it is simply telling you that the
email address Christian at malibu-2002.de is bouncing.

What happens when you send an email to "Christian at malibu-2002.de"?  Does
it bounce?  Are only Mailman messages bouncing to that address?

On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 07:06, Fuss, Christian wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> i do have a really urgent Problem with my Mailman. Actually everythings working fine except of sending the mails to the list-members.
> I get following failure in the smtp-failures log:
> 
> Oct 12 19:49:11 2002 (2292) delivery to Christian at malibu-2002.de failed with code 553: 5.3.0 <mailingliste-bounces at malibu-2002.de>... No such user here
> 
> what might be a problem is, that i have activated smtp auth for preventing relaying.
> 
> 
> 
> can anybody help me?
> 
> thx
> 
> Christ





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 15:13:58 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 09:13:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archives problem (install)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132250210.18220-100000@black.ils.unc.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132250210.18220-100000@black.ils.unc.edu>
Message-ID: <1034601239.1638.6.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is definitely an FAQ... Send some mail to the list, wait a day and
then check (or run the archiver by hand *after* sending some mail to the
list).  

The archives are created automatically - but only after some mail is
sent, and the arch script is run (from cron).

Good luck - Jon Carnes

On Sun, 2002-10-13 at 22:53, Tommy Mann wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I've just installed Mailman on my Linux box -- great app!  I can't get the 
> archives to work though -- I get a page not found error when I visit:
> http://black.ils.unc.edu:8080/pipermail/test/  <-- test is my testing mail 
> list
> 
> Here's what I've added to the httpd.conf file:
> =====================
> Alias /pipermail/ "/home/mailman/achives/public/"
> 
> <Directory "/home/mailman/archives/public/">
>   Options FollowSymLinks
> </Directory>
> ====================
> 
> Any thoughts on what I'm doing wrong or what I'm missing??  Thanks!
> 
> Tommy
> tmann at black.ils.unc.edu
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 15:16:12 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 09:16:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] restart question
In-Reply-To: <3DAA3698.AAEFA790@pcraft.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210132159340.15175-100000@host.whitworks.com> 
	<3DAA3698.AAEFA790@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <1034601373.1634.9.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Off hand, I would say that your server ran out of space (or something
worse).  In which case, only the sysadmin can rescue you!

Good Luck 

On Sun, 2002-10-13 at 23:14, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
> WhitmoreWebWorks wrote:
> 
> > Do you think there could be something
> > wrong with the server that is doing this?
> 
>     The fact that you have processes that are hanging (besides just mailman), yes.
> 
> --
> H | "Life is the art of drawing without an eraser." - John Gardner
>   +--------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
>   Director of Internet Operations / SysAdmin    .     800.441.3873 x130
>   Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave, #6
>   http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 15:50:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 09:50:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20021014100555.00a93800@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20021014100555.00a93800@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1034603437.1638.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

As someone else mentioned, the Beta has this feature.

Also, if you have sysadmin rights to the server running Mailman, then
you can setup one of the work-arounds. There are a couple of
work-arounds that allow you to discard the messages silently.

Check out FAQ article 1.12 and article 4.15

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 05:12, Mark Goodge wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I run several mailing lists, all of which have posting restricted to 
> members only, some of which require approval for subscriptions and one of 
> which is moderated (requires posts to be approved). This means there are 
> quite a lot of administrative requests to be dealt with every day.
> 
> One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the number of 
> non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin queues waiting to be 
> discarded. As I only ever want to discard them, never forward them, approve 
> them or reply to them, I would prefer them to be silently dropped by 
> Mailman without them ever reaching the admin requests queue. However, I 
> can't find any way in the configs to do this. Am I missing something, or is 
> there an undocumented feature that will allow this? Or is it simply not 
> possible with Mailman? (in which case, I'm going to have to go back to 
> Majordomo, which does allow non-member posts to be silently discarded).
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 17:01:37 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 11:01:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP Problem
In-Reply-To: <000901c27389$56d37e50$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
References: <000e01c19385$e71f82e0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
	<1034600887.1638.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<000901c27389$56d37e50$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
Message-ID: <1034607697.1638.50.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You need to look at your mail transport logs and see where the error is
coming from.  I'm guessing that you tightened up the local servers
relaying (/etc/mail/access - for sendmail) and that you probably turned
off relaying for localhost.

If that is the case, then Mailman will only be able to deliver mail
locally (assuming you didn't deny access for local delivery!).

Try logging into the Mailman server and:
  su - mailman
  echo "test mail" | mail -s "Test Message" christian at mailibu-2002.de
 
I'll bet that does not get delivered.  If so, then you need to play with
your relay rules until it can be delivered.

Good Luck!

On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 09:55, Fuss, Christian wrote:
> yes it's bouncing too all adresses of the list not only to
> Christian at malibu-2002.de, i have no problems sending mails to that adress...
> i think the problem has something to do with relaying and smtp auth... but i
> haven't found any posts or articles about that kind of failures
> 
> thx
> 
> Chris
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Carnes" <jonc at nc.rr.com>
> To: "Fuss, Christian" <Christian at malibu-2002.de>
> Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Monday, October 14, 2002 3:08 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] SMTP Problem
> 
> 
> > If I read that warning correctly, it is simply telling you that the
> > email address Christian at malibu-2002.de is bouncing.
> >
> > What happens when you send an email to "Christian at malibu-2002.de"?  Does
> > it bounce?  Are only Mailman messages bouncing to that address?
> >
> > On Wed, 2002-01-02 at 07:06, Fuss, Christian wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > i do have a really urgent Problem with my Mailman. Actually everythings
> working fine except of sending the mails to the list-members.
> > > I get following failure in the smtp-failures log:
> > >
> > > Oct 12 19:49:11 2002 (2292) delivery to Christian at malibu-2002.de failed
> with code 553: 5.3.0 <mailingliste-bounces at malibu-2002.de>... No such user
> here
> > >
> > > what might be a problem is, that i have activated smtp auth for
> preventing relaying.
> > >





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 14 17:07:51 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 11:07:51 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman failed script, unexpected GID on Suse
	Linux
In-Reply-To: <1034607399.11196.4.camel@matrix>
References: <1034367247.24517.44.camel@matrix> 
	<1034447469.1637.72.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<1034607399.11196.4.camel@matrix>
Message-ID: <1034608071.1634.55.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is not the first time it's happened!  You might want to contact the
person in charge of maintaining that package for SuSE.

It may be that they make some assumptions as to which mailserver you are
using, and you used a different mailserver.  If that is the case, then
you might find a package that is labeled as being Mailman-MTAname.  That
would be an alternative Mailman install that is specific to the MTA you
choose.

Good Luck
 
On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 10:56, Edmund Young III wrote:
> But, mailman comes installed on Suse Linux, it just seems unbelievable I
> need to reinstall the application in this scenario?
> 
> 
> On Sat, 2002-10-12 at 11:31, Jon Carnes wrote:
> > Take a look at the FAQ 
> >  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > 
> > You need to reinstall Mailman and use the switch --mail-gid=2 on your
> > ./configure step.
> > 
> > Good Luck - Jon Carnes
> > On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 16:14, Edmund Young III wrote:
> > > I am having issues with unexpected GID when attempting to send mail
> > > through wrapper scripts.
> > > Any help is appreciated.
> > > 
> > > Failure message:
> > > 
> > > ===============
> > > 
> > > The original message was received at Fri, 11 Oct 2002 10:17:10 -0700
> > > from localhost [127.0.0.1]
> > > with id g9BHHAGQ000640
> > > 
> > >    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> > > "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post test"
> > >     (reason: 2)
> > >     (expanded from: <test at straylight.toyota.com>)
> > > 
> > >    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> > > Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 65534, GOT gid 2.  (Reconfigure to
> > > take 2?)
> > > 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2
> > > -- 
> > 
> -- 
> 
> 
> *****************************
> Best Regards,
> Edmund Young III
> Unix Systems Administrator
> Bus. (310) 468 - 1620
> Toyota Motor Sales
> http://www.toyota.com
> *****************************
> 





From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Mon Oct 14 19:11:39 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 11:11:39 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu>
Message-ID: <33207.200.67.148.250.1034615499.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>

Check procmail-sanitizer, it's great!

http://www.impsec.org/email-tools/procmail-security.html

> What is a good virus (worm) protection tool for mailman?
>
> I have a virus message in the archives now.  How do I remove a single
> message from the archives?
>
> thanks much!
>
> --
> Paul L. Schumacher
> Winona State University
> Computer Science Department
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From dan at ssc.com  Mon Oct 14 18:28:58 2002
From: dan at ssc.com (Dan Wilder)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:28:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virus (worm) protection?
In-Reply-To: <33207.200.67.148.250.1034615499.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210130931490.29231-100000@linux2.winona.msus.edu> <33207.200.67.148.250.1034615499.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
Message-ID: <20021014092858.B18605@ssc.com>

On Mon, Oct 14, 2002 at 11:11:39AM -0600, Armando Soto Baeza wrote:
> Check procmail-sanitizer, it's great!
> 
> http://www.impsec.org/email-tools/procmail-security.html
> 
> > What is a good virus (worm) protection tool for mailman?
> >
> > I have a virus message in the archives now.  How do I remove a single
> > message from the archives?
> >
> > thanks much!

As to removing a single article, I believe the easiest way is to
regenerate the archive.  Presuming you're using pipermail, that is.

Supposing your pipermail directory is:

  /var/lib/mailman/archives/

Mailman is installed in 

  /usr/lib/mailman/

and your list is 

  notme-list 

Then, as a user with write access to the pipermail archives,

  cd /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/notme-list.mbox/

With your favorite email client, open the file

  notme-list.mbox

delete the offending post, and rewrite notme-list.mbox  

Next, rebuild the archive for notme-list:

  /usr/lib/mailman/bin/arch notme-list

and you're done.

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------
 Dan Wilder <dan at ssc.com>   Technical Manager
 SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549   Phone:  206-782-8808
 Seattle, WA  98155-0549    URL http://www.linuxjournal.com/
-----------------------------------------------------------------



From filizzi at umich.edu  Mon Oct 14 18:55:19 2002
From: filizzi at umich.edu (Matt Filizzi)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 12:55:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
References: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu> <1034435725.1637.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DAAF6F7.2040405@umich.edu>

Just as an update, what the problem was is someone subscribed with an ' 
in their email address. (ex. o'brien at test.com)  Does anyone know if this 
is valid for email addresses?  I couldn't find any mention in the RFC 
about it.

Jon Carnes wrote:
> Check the log files for mailman.
> 
> Check the space on the server and make sure none of your volumes is too
> full.  Then check your lists for the latest subscribers (you should be
> able to see the new subscribers in the log files).  See if someone
> subscribed using a "full name" <email at address.com> combination.  
> 
> Finally, check your qfiles directory and see if there is a malformed
> message waiting to be processed.  You might need to move the files out
> of there and see if processing continues normally afterward.
> 
> Good Luck - Jon Carnes
> 
> On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 12:41, Matt Filizzi wrote:
> 
>>We have two machines running mailman, both setup identical.  Both were 
>>running fine up untill a week ago (except for some reason one was 
>>marking valid emails as nomail but that's another question), then one of 
>>our two servers started sending out the following qrunner error messages 
>>everytime qrunner was run.  Also it seems that messages are not being 
>>sent from that server anymore.  Nothing has changed configuration wise 
>>to cause this.  Any ideas of where to even start looking?
>>
>>sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
>>sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
>>sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
>>sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
>>sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
>>sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
>>sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
>>sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
>>sh: -c: line 1: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `''
>>sh: -c: line 2: syntax error: unexpected end of file
>>
>>-- 
>>Matt Filizzi
>>
>>Michigan Poverty Law Program
>>611 Church Street, Suite 4A
>>Ann Arbor, Michigan  48104
>>734.998.6100 x 23
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 

-- 
Matt Filizzi

Michigan Poverty Law Program
611 Church Street, Suite 4A
Ann Arbor, Michigan  48104
734.998.6100 x 23




From bga at bug-br.org.br  Mon Oct 14 19:16:01 2002
From: bga at bug-br.org.br (Bruno G. Albuquerque)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 15:16:01 -0200 (BRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman detecting bounces when there is none.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210141512320.22446-100000@metropoles.eduweb.com.br>

Hello.

	Yesterday Mailman decided that most of the people subscribed to 
the lists I run at my site were bouncing and disabled hundreds of 
accounts. The problem is that they're not bouncing at all! I had to 
disable bounce detection and manually enable the affected accounts. If I 
enable automatic bounce detection it disables all accounts again.

	Any ideas? I am running Mailman 2.0.8 (considering upgrading to 
2.0.13).

	-Bruno





From mailman at tux.org  Mon Oct 14 20:04:55 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:04:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
In-Reply-To: <3DAAF6F7.2040405@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210141358200.6970-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Mon, 14 Oct 2002, Matt Filizzi wrote:

> Just as an update, what the problem was is someone subscribed with
> an ' in their email address. (ex. o'brien at test.com)  Does anyone know
> if this is valid for email addresses?

It is valid.

> I couldn't find any mention in the RFC  about it.

See RFC 2822, section 3.4 and 3.4.1, and then section 3.2.4 for a
definition of "dot-atom", etc.

Or, see RFC 822, section 6.1, and then section 3.3 for a definition
of "word", etc.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From doug.curtis at world-mail.org  Mon Oct 14 20:52:38 2002
From: doug.curtis at world-mail.org (Doug Curtis)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 14:52:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in mailman logs
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021014145102.00b2cd88@mail.gtrep.gatech.edu>

I have started getting this error since last Friday in my mailman logs and 
can't figure out how to fix it:

Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Delivery exception: require_explicit_destination
Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Traceback (innermost last):
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 178, in process
     if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
AttributeError: require_explicit_destination

I have never had this problem before but it just started to pop up.

I am running Redhat Linux 7.0.

Thanks,

Doug




From mjones6 at commnav.com  Mon Oct 14 22:32:36 2002
From: mjones6 at commnav.com (Morgan Jones)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:32:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sun ONE/iPlanet Messenger 5.2?
Message-ID: <20021014163236.C27731@perfectorder.com>


I am new to the list and to mailman so I apologize in advance if this
has been covered...

We are running Sun ONE/iPlanet messenger in Solaris 8.  For those
using the same, here's the issue that we're up against:

imsimta program -a .. forces programs to be registered with command
line arguments.  Mailman depends on the list name as an argument.
This would imply that that we need to register three new programs for
each list that is created.  This could get cumbersome fast.  Here's an
example:

$ bin/newlist morgantest
Enter the email of the person running the list: mjones6 at commnav.com
Initial morgantest password: 
Entry for aliases file:

## morgantest mailing list
## created: 14-Oct-2002 root
morgantest:              "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper post morgantest"
morgantest-admin:        "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner morgantest"
morgantest-request:      "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd morgantest"
morgantest-owner:        morgantest-admin


The only sol'n I can see is to write a perl script that parses the
incoming message and execs the wrapper script with the appropriate
arguments..

Does anybody have an alternate solution?

thanks.

-morgan


Morgan Jones // mjones6 at commnav.com
             // CommNav, Inc.



From mailman at tux.org  Mon Oct 14 23:40:34 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <1034603437.1638.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210141724160.9865-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On 14 Oct 2002, Jon Carnes wrote:

> As someone else mentioned, the Beta has this feature.
>
> Also, if you have sysadmin rights to the server running Mailman,
> then you can setup one of the work-arounds. There are a couple of
> work-arounds that allow you to discard the messages silently.
>
> Check out FAQ article 1.12 and article 4.15

> On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 05:12, Mark Goodge wrote:
> >
> > One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the
> > number of non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin queues
> > waiting to be discarded. As I only ever want to discard them, never
> > forward them, approve them or reply to them, I would prefer them to
> > be silently dropped by Mailman without them ever reaching the admin
> > requests queue.

Another approach is to stop spam where it should be stopped: before
or at the MTA.  It is only prudent for Mailman and other programs
that deal with e-mail to be built with an awareness of the reality
of spam, and it is helpful when such programs include anit-spam
features ... but these should always be regarded as -helps- not
solutions.  Said another way:  While not disregarding the ways that
Mailman can help you fight spam, do not forget to view your mail
system as a whole system, with many layers and many components.

Ultimately, the best way to stop spam from ever reaching the admin
requests queue is to stop spam from passing through your MTA.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From mailman at tux.org  Mon Oct 14 23:54:03 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:54:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with list member's vacation script
In-Reply-To: <1034437299.1637.25.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210141741010.9865-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On 12 Oct 2002, Jon Carnes wrote:

> Really the best solution is to teach folks the proper way to setup a
> vacation message.  Vacation messages should *only* respond to emails
> where either the TO: or CC: of the message has the users email address
> in it.

> On Fri, 2002-10-11 at 10:18, linux_news at nextphere.com wrote:
>
> > I manage a mailing list site with mailman, and I recently had the
> > following  problem:
> >
> > Lets say I have a list called test at site.org with 3 members:
> > m1 at foo.org, m2 at foo.org and m3 at foo.org. m3 has its vacation script
> > turned on. m1 sends an email to test at site.org, so m2,m3 and m1 itself
> > receive the email. m3's vacation script replies to m1 and to
> > test at site.org, so m1 gets 2 copies of the reply (one directly and one
> > through test at site.org), m2 gets a copy and m1 gets a copy of its own
> > reply which in turn will be replied by its vacation script and so on.
> > So my mail server ends up sending a lot of useless emails.  How can I
> > stop this situation?

... Also, vacation programs should keep track of addresses to which
they have already sent an on-vacation message, and not send another
such message within X number of days.  Jon's suggestions will do more
to eliminate your problem, while mine only reduces the problem.  (But,
importantly, my suggestion does eliminate the looping effect; the "and
so on" part of your problem report.)  Both Jon's suggestions and mine
require you to be able to influence the behavior of your list members,
and I agree with Jon that dropping people from the list is a perfectly
valid way to attempt to influence people who cause endless message
loops -- especially to a mailing list.  At any rate, it is the
appropriate thing to do with list members who do nothing when you
politely point out to them why their vacation message set-up and/or
program is causing problems.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From andhy_w at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 02:56:00 2002
From: andhy_w at yahoo.com (andhy widodo)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:56:00 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to install mail man
Message-ID: <20021015005600.92670.qmail@web13906.mail.yahoo.com>

Dear All,
How to install mailman (I mean the complete step
script) ? I use Readhat distributions. Thank you.

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 03:13:54 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 21:13:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error in mailman logs
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021014145102.00b2cd88@mail.gtrep.gatech.edu>
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021014145102.00b2cd88@mail.gtrep.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <1034644434.1638.4.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I suspect that your config.db for one of your lists is corrupt.

Reasoning: "require_explicit)destination is an attribute of your mailing
list. If the program Hold.py can't find this attribute, then it may be
missing from your list - ergo corrupt.

You can use the ~mailman/bin/check_db program to check on your lists
database.

Of course it could be a whole host of other more simple problems such as
your server running out of space on a critical volume.

Good Luck

On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 14:52, Doug Curtis wrote:
> I have started getting this error since last Friday in my mailman logs and 
> can't figure out how to fix it:
> 
> Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Delivery exception: require_explicit_destination
> Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Traceback (innermost last):
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in do_pipeline
>      func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>    File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 178, in process
>      if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
> AttributeError: require_explicit_destination
> 
> I have never had this problem before but it just started to pop up.
> 
> I am running Redhat Linux 7.0.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 03:27:01 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 14 Oct 2002 21:27:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Sun ONE/iPlanet Messenger 5.2?
In-Reply-To: <20021014163236.C27731@perfectorder.com>
References: <20021014163236.C27731@perfectorder.com>
Message-ID: <1034645221.1634.16.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Interesting problem! I would tackle this by:
 - renaming the newlist command to something like orig.newlist and then
 - writing a script that collects the data necessary for newlist, 
 - feed that data into orig.newlist, 
 - capture the output, and then 
 - run the "imsimta" command for each of the necessary lines.

Basically do just what you said, write a wrapper around the newlist
command.


On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 16:32, Morgan Jones wrote:
> 
> 
> I am new to the list and to mailman so I apologize in advance if this
> has been covered...
> 
> We are running Sun ONE/iPlanet messenger in Solaris 8.  For those
> using the same, here's the issue that we're up against:
> 
> imsimta program -a .. forces programs to be registered with command
> line arguments.  Mailman depends on the list name as an argument.
> This would imply that that we need to register three new programs for
> each list that is created.  This could get cumbersome fast.  Here's an
> example:
> 
> $ bin/newlist morgantest
> Enter the email of the person running the list: mjones6 at commnav.com
> Initial morgantest password: 
> Entry for aliases file:
> 
> ## morgantest mailing list
> ## created: 14-Oct-2002 root
> morgantest:              "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper post morgantest"
> morgantest-admin:        "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner morgantest"
> morgantest-request:      "|/opt/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd morgantest"
> morgantest-owner:        morgantest-admin
> 
> 
> The only sol'n I can see is to write a perl script that parses the
> incoming message and execs the wrapper script with the appropriate
> arguments..
> 
> Does anybody have an alternate solution?
> 
> thanks.
> 
> -morgan
> 
> 
> Morgan Jones // mjones6 at commnav.com
>              // CommNav, Inc.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From benas at transtrado.lt  Tue Oct 15 09:41:09 2002
From: benas at transtrado.lt (Benas Adomavicius)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:41:09 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
Message-ID: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>

Hi all,

I have tried installing Mailman 2.1b3 on Mandrake 8.1 system. ./Configure
went fine, however upon make install i received following error:

Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ...
Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
Listing /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ...
Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
    from Mailman import Utils
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
    import email.Iterators
ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
make: *** [update] Error 1


Does anyone know how I could resolve it? It seems to be asking for module
email.iterators, where could I find it?



____________________________________________
Transtrado
International transport and logistics
phone +370 5 2793333
fax +370 5 2793025
ICQ: 16733824
____________________________________________



-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021015/4f1a08f3/attachment.html 

From mark at good-stuff.co.uk  Tue Oct 15 09:47:39 2002
From: mark at good-stuff.co.uk (Mark Goodge)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:47:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210141724160.9865-100000@gwyn.tux.org>
References: <1034603437.1638.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20021015084224.00a8f3a0@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>

At 17:40 14/10/2002 -0400, mailman at tux.org wrote:
>On 14 Oct 2002, Jon Carnes wrote:
> > >
> > > One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the
> > > number of non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin queues
> > > waiting to be discarded. As I only ever want to discard them, never
> > > forward them, approve them or reply to them, I would prefer them to
> > > be silently dropped by Mailman without them ever reaching the admin
> > > requests queue.
>
>Another approach is to stop spam where it should be stopped: before
>or at the MTA.  It is only prudent for Mailman and other programs
>that deal with e-mail to be built with an awareness of the reality
>of spam, and it is helpful when such programs include anit-spam
>features ... but these should always be regarded as -helps- not
>solutions.

 From Mailman's point of view, though, the origin of the email is 
irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether it's "genuine" spam, a mistaken 
attempt to contact the list administrator by using the list address instead 
of the admin address, a member trying to post with the wrong address, or 
whatever. All of these are non-member posts, and all of them get treated 
exactly the same - that is, they are discarded without replies. A pre-list 
spam filter will deal with some of it, but not all of it.

Mark




From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Oct 15 10:33:06 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 01:33:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts 
In-Reply-To: Message from Mark Goodge <mark@good-stuff.co.uk> 
   of "Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:47:39 BST." <5.0.2.1.2.20021015084224.00a8f3a0@pop.good-stuff.co.uk> 
References: <1034603437.1638.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>  <5.0.2.1.2.20021015084224.00a8f3a0@pop.good-stuff.co.uk> 
Message-ID: <29292.1034670786@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:47:39 +0100 
Mark Goodge <mark at good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

> A pre-list spam filter will deal with some of it, but not all of it.

That's very close to untrue.

Note:

  TMDA can read mailman list configurations, and membership rosters in
  particular, and can filter on that basis.

I've been fronting my lists with TMDA (see my HOWTO) for a few months
now.  Due to other accidents of history all of my lists are hand
moderated.  I can't state that a TMDA setup will catch all SPAM, but you
might like the below:

Stats:

  Prior to TMDA there was an average of 20 - 30 SPAM and virus messages
  per list in the moderation queue.

  Within the last three months I've had a grand total of __two__ virus
  messages reach the moderation interface for *ANY* list.  No SPAM
  messages have reached any list's moderation interface.

Caveats: 

  I also do heavy MIME filtering via `mimefilter` along with TMDA
  filtering.  Basically this means I remove all MIME parts which aren't
  text/plain or message/rfc822, and if the resulting message is less
  than 20 bytes long I silently discard it.  (See the HOWTO for details)

  I deployed the MIME filter prior to deploying the TMDA filters.  It
  was responsible for a considerable reduction in SPAM and virus mail
  reaching the moderation interfaces -- down from ~50 a day to 20 - 30.
  Definitely enough to notice, but no more.  TMDA took it down so close
  to 0 as to be near indistinguishable.

Observations:

  In three months of TMDA fronted list operation:

    Just over 30 addresses have been confirmed thru TMDA (ie posters
    posting from non-subscribed addresses).

    2 valid posts from 2 different addresses were not confirmed.  In the
    one case I was able to research fully it was due to misconfiguration
    of the mail systems at his ISP as his messages were sent with an
    invalid (ie bouncing) Return-Path.  As TMDA sends the confirmation
    to the Return-Path, that didn't work.  Given this (rather gross)
    screwup on his ISP's part, I don't consider this a problem.  The
    other case's domain fell off the net before I was able to get around
    to tracking the details down.  I'd be unsurprised it was a similarly
    screwed mail system.

    5 members (who hit the TMDA confirmation) exclaimed something
    equivalent to: "If that's all that's required to work with this new
    filter then there's no problem at all!"  One went on at some length.

    Asides from the five admiring comments, there have been no other
    comments from users on the TMDA aspects.  Then again, TMDA is
    transparent to the majority of posting users as they post from
    subscribed addresses.

Do you have any idea how pleasant it is to moderate lists which have
zero SPAM and zero virus messages?  And its been that way for months...

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From linux at mostert.nom.za  Tue Oct 15 12:12:40 2002
From: linux at mostert.nom.za (Mozzi)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:12:40 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple emails
Message-ID: <3DABEA18.4000407@mostert.nom.za>

Hi all

I get the problem that on verey large lists some people get mail 2 or 
even 4 times. (50 000+)
I use these lists to mail users on my system.

Now I think I know where the problem lies.
in the config file it says this

QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300

I s it possible that my process liftime is just to long ?
can I fafely set it to None ?

When setting it to none do I.....
QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = 0
or.....
QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = none ???

Am I on the right track here or is there another cure?

SECONDLY
QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
does this mean it sends mails out 300 @ a time ?
Can I increase that to say 500?

Tnx all

Mozzi

-- 
  _
( )	Ascii ribbon campaign against html email
  X
/ \




From lists.ASkwar at email-server.info  Tue Oct 15 13:00:43 2002
From: lists.ASkwar at email-server.info (Alexander Skwar)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 13:00:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing From?
Message-ID: <1034679643.3dabf55b2a9f2@confixx.p15097023.pureserver.info>

Hi!

I'm running Mailman 2.1b3 on a server of mine.  On one of the lists, I'd
like Mailman to change the From: header of outgoing mails to some value,
so that it is impossible (or at least harder) for the users to the see
the name and/or email adress of the user who originally sent the message.

Is this possible?  If so - how would I do it?

Thanks,

Alexander Skwar
-- 
How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (en)
Homepage:     http://www.iso-top.biz  |  Jabber: askwar at a-message.de
   iso-top.biz - Die g?nstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
-- 
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/



From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Tue Oct 15 14:14:58 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 08:14:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210150814350.13020-100000@seyyav.pair.com>

Hi,

I'm using mailman 2.0.6.  My list is configured so that only members
can post to the list and all posts must be approved by the
administrator.  The other day an un-approved post was distributed to my
list.  The post was not held for approval and I know it went out to the
list because it showed up in the archives.

Has anyone ever had an unauthorized post go out to a their list without
administrative approval?  The email appeared to have come from the
list-admin address.  Do later versions of mailman patch this?

Tim





From Christian at malibu-2002.de  Tue Oct 15 16:37:36 2002
From: Christian at malibu-2002.de (Fuss, Christian)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:37:36 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP-Problem
Message-ID: <002d01c27458$68f647f0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>

Hi,

and again my Problem with Mailman and SMTP, posting is actually working, a posted message is even shown in the archive. Just delivering to the members doesnt work, i get the following error message in the /var/log/mail:

"Oct 15 16:33:18 p15093706 sendmail[28096]: NOQUEUE: localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA"

Relaying is allowed, i can send mails from console having any problems.

Anyone got an idea??

Thx
Chris
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021015/45b15ca8/attachment.htm 

From wheakory at isu.edu  Tue Oct 15 17:18:16 2002
From: wheakory at isu.edu (Kory Wheatley)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:18:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman editing messages
Message-ID: <3DAC31B8.73A42708@isu.edu>

I noticed in mailman 2.1.b3 that you can't edit a message from
"mailman/data" anymore and then approve the message with the edited
changes, (through the command line). Will there be a work around that
you
will be able to do this, because currently has I've talked about I'm not

able to use the web interface to edit a message through Netscape Mailer
(which really is not considered a web interface, but you know what I'm
talking about) so I currently do it through the command line in
/mailman/data with mailman 2.0.13. When Mailman 2.1 comes out I will not

be able to use either approach, so I hope that maybe these issues have
been expressed.

I don't mean to be critical, because I've used Mailman since its first
existence with our 170 production Universities Mailing lists and I like
it.
.

--
#########################################
Kory Wheatley
Academic Computing Analyst Sr.
Phone 282-3874
#########################################
Everything must point to him.





From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 17:56:09 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 11:56:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman-Developers] Mailman editing messages
References: <3DAC31B8.73A42708@isu.edu>
Message-ID: <15788.15001.511675.885092@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "KW" == Kory Wheatley <wheakory at isu.edu> writes:

    KW> I noticed in mailman 2.1.b3 that you can't edit a message from
    KW> "mailman/data" anymore and then approve the message with the
    KW> edited changes, (through the command line). Will there be a
    KW> work around that you will be able to do this, because
    KW> currently has I've talked about I'm not

    KW> able to use the web interface to edit a message through
    KW> Netscape Mailer (which really is not considered a web
    KW> interface, but you know what I'm talking about) so I currently
    KW> do it through the command line in /mailman/data with mailman
    KW> 2.0.13. When Mailman 2.1 comes out I will not

    KW> be able to use either approach, so I hope that maybe these
    KW> issues have been expressed.

    KW> I don't mean to be critical, because I've used Mailman since
    KW> its first existence with our 170 production Universities
    KW> Mailing lists and I like it.  .

Set HOLD_MESSAGES_AS_PICKLES=0 in your mm_cfg.py file and any messages
waiting for approval will be stored as plaintext instead of Python
pickles.  It's less efficient, but who cares?

Just be sure that when you edit the held message file, you save it in
a form that the email Parser's lax parsing mode can grok.  IOW,
conform to the RFCs and you'll be cool.

-Barry



From mutty at prosoft.com.tr  Tue Oct 15 18:06:06 2002
From: mutty at prosoft.com.tr (Muttalip Saygin)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:06:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] authentication problem
Message-ID: <3DAC3CEE.2010808@prosoft.com.tr>

hi all.
As a newbie I have installed mailman 2.0.13 with python 2.2.1c1  on Suse 
8.0.
Login screen for admin appears and  accepts my password  but mailman 
does not write any change and brings login screen again.
My browser accepts cookies properly  also I have checked with different 
machines and different browsers ..so what can it be wrong?
thnx
mutty

-- 
"Everybody writes their own story"
Prosoft ?leti?im Sistemleri Ltd.
0312 4466616
0312 4462423





From mailman at tux.org  Tue Oct 15 18:39:35 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 12:39:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20021015084224.00a8f3a0@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210151146180.25131-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, Mark Goodge wrote:

> > > > One thing that makes all this more awkward to deal with is the
> > > > number of non-member (spam) posts that end up in the admin
> > > > queues waiting to be discarded.
> >
> >Another approach is to stop spam where it should be stopped: before
> >or at the MTA.
>
> From Mailman's point of view, though, the origin of the email is
> irrelevant. It doesn't matter whether it's "genuine" spam, a
> mistaken attempt to contact the list administrator by using the list
> address instead of the admin address, a member trying to post with
> the wrong address, or whatever. All of these are non-member posts,
> and all of them get treated exactly the same - that is, they are
> discarded without replies. A pre-list spam filter will deal with
> some of it, but not all of it.

I must have misunderstood your original post.  I read your original
post to say, essentially, "I have a lot of administrative requests to
deal with every day, and I could deal with them more efficiently if
I did not have to bother with all the spam that is commingled in
among them; I would like the spam to never reach the administrative
queue."

And, by "spam" I thought you meant genuine spam, not just "unwanted
e-mail".  (Spam, of course, is just one particular kind of unwanted
e-mail.  Some unwanted e-mail is just a part of life; unwanted e-mail
from list members who could use an additional clue or two is a part of
life as a list owner.)  I personally favor taking the opportunity to
provide the necessary clue, but I suppose having one's posts disappear
into the void provides -some- sort of feedback.  (But, in my experience,
it almost always leads to follow-up messages, often including accusations
that service is poor, or something is broken, or the sys-admins don't
know what they are doing, etc.)  I -do- see a place for automatically
discarding anything that would otherwise require administrative action,
but I personally would reserve this feature for one-way (newsletter)
lists and the like.

The other replies to your post should prove very helpful in
implementing the automatic discarding that you seek.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From spamfilter2 at mupp.net  Tue Oct 15 18:48:17 2002
From: spamfilter2 at mupp.net (j2)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:48:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 and keepalive?
Message-ID: <00b601c2746a$a94238c0$7800a8c0@fozzie>

FOr some reason my 2.1 install stops running and has to be restarted every
week or so. I this a common problem (prolly not since i cant find it in the
archives) or does someone have keepalive-script for mailman?


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 2002-10-11




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 19:19:16 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 13:19:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
References: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
Message-ID: <1034702356.1779.48.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Interesting... there was a comment last week about Red Hat's 8.0
distribution - they didn't include some of the Python modules needed for
the installation of Mailman.  I wonder if this is also true for Mandrake
8.1.  Have you tried it on Mandrake 8.2?

You might try going back to the install CD and installing all packages
related to Python.

Good Luck

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 03:41, Benas Adomavicius wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have tried installing Mailman 2.1b3 on Mandrake 8.1 system. ./Configure
> went fine, however upon make install i received following error:
> 
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> Listing /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>     from Mailman import Utils
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
>     import email.Iterators
> ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
> make: *** [update] Error 1
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how I could resolve it? It seems to be asking for module
> email.iterators, where could I find it?
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________
> Transtrado
> International transport and logistics
> phone +370 5 2793333
> fax +370 5 2793025
> ICQ: 16733824
> ____________________________________________
> 
> 
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 19:32:03 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 13:32:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Silently discarding non-member posts
In-Reply-To: <F1329BS4fkRvsraA6Q1000086f1@hotmail.com>
References: <F1329BS4fkRvsraA6Q1000086f1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1034703123.1779.55.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The only big piece you seem to be missing is that each install has a
separate owner.  When you run the ./configure command you will include a
switch pointing the "owner" of this particular install, and also to the
home directory for the install.  

The owner for site1 will be something like user mmsite1.  The owner for
site2 will be something like mmsite2, etc... Each of these is a user
with a separate home directory.  Each user has its own cron table as
well. Everything else is just as you described below!

Good Luck, and remember to start out small (get two virtual sites
working), and then grow from there.

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 04:53, John Walsh wrote:
> 
> 
> Jon,
> 
> You seam to know something about mailman :-
> 
> I am trying to get it to keep virtual domains completely
> seperate. So that I can have same name lists on different
> virtual domains.
> 
> I see this is being worked on, but for the moment I don't
> think it is fully supported.
> 
> I think there may be a work around :-
> 
> A seperate installation of mailman, 1 per virtual domain.
> 
> This means feeding the emails into the correct installation,
> which can be done through aliases and virusertable (sendmail),
> and Apache can also be directed as such in its setup.
> 
> The only thing I need to know (because I have not tried it
> yet) is - how does mailman know where its root directory is ?
> 
> If it gets it from its run path (both wrapper and python
> scripts), then I think this will work.
> 
> Do you have any ideas about this - or I'll just try it.
> 
> What else might I be missing ? I think there is a cron job
> somewhere to fix too ?
> 
> Thanks,
> John.
> 
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 19:38:49 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 13:38:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing From?
In-Reply-To: <1034679643.3dabf55b2a9f2@confixx.p15097023.pureserver.info>
References: <1034679643.3dabf55b2a9f2@confixx.p15097023.pureserver.info>
Message-ID: <1034703530.1779.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This was not a function available in Mailman 2.0.x and I don't think its
available in 2.1.x series either.

You can however Front-end your mailing list with something like a
procmail script.  In other words, send email coming to your list through
a script that pre-processes it.  

You could also dive into the source code for Mailman and have it drop or
mangle various headers from messages before sending them back out.  This
is really not as hard as you might think.

Good Luck
 
On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 07:00, Alexander Skwar wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> I'm running Mailman 2.1b3 on a server of mine.  On one of the lists, I'd
> like Mailman to change the From: header of outgoing mails to some value,
> so that it is impossible (or at least harder) for the users to the see
> the name and/or email adress of the user who originally sent the message.
> 
> Is this possible?  If so - how would I do it?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Alexander Skwar
> -- 
> How to quote: http://learn.to/quote (german) http://quote.6x.to (en)
> Homepage:     http://www.iso-top.biz  |  Jabber: askwar at a-message.de
>    iso-top.biz - Die g?nstige Art an Linux Distributionen zu kommen
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 19:57:42 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 13:57:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP-Problem
In-Reply-To: <002d01c27458$68f647f0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
References: <002d01c27458$68f647f0$abcc14ac@euh17e107>
Message-ID: <1034704667.1798.84.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Can you login to that server and:
  telnet 127.0.0.1 25

In other words is sendmail listing to all available ports on the server?

If so, what happens if you put the following in
~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
   DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
   #DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'

In other words, change the way Mailman attempts to drop messages off to
your MTA.

Good Luck to you - Jon Carnes
===
On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 10:37, Fuss, Christian wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> and again my Problem with Mailman and SMTP, posting is actually working, a posted message is even shown in the archive. Just delivering to the members doesnt work, i get the following error message in the /var/log/mail:
> 
> "Oct 15 16:33:18 p15093706 sendmail[28096]: NOQUEUE: localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA"
> 
> Relaying is allowed, i can send mails from console having any problems.
> 
> Anyone got an idea??
> 
> Thx
> Chris





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 20:01:40 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 14:01:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SMTP-Problem
In-Reply-To: <1034704667.1798.84.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
References: <002d01c27458$68f647f0$abcc14ac@euh17e107> 
	<1034704667.1798.84.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1034704900.1798.92.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If that doesn't work (or you don't like the solution), change back to
using SMTPDirect and then try mucking about with some of the other SMTP
variables. In particular you might want to change:
  SMTPHOST

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 13:57, Jon Carnes wrote:
> Can you login to that server and:
>   telnet 127.0.0.1 25
> 
> In other words is sendmail listing to all available ports on the server?
> 
> If so, what happens if you put the following in
> ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py:
>    DELIVERY_MODULE = 'Sendmail'
>    #DELIVERY_MODULE = 'SMTPDirect'
> 
> In other words, change the way Mailman attempts to drop messages off to
> your MTA.
> 
> Good Luck to you - Jon Carnes
> ===
> On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 10:37, Fuss, Christian wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > and again my Problem with Mailman and SMTP, posting is actually working, a posted message is even shown in the archive. Just delivering to the members doesnt work, i get the following error message in the /var/log/mail:
> > 
> > "Oct 15 16:33:18 p15093706 sendmail[28096]: NOQUEUE: localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1] did not issue MAIL/EXPN/VRFY/ETRN during connection to MTA"
> > 
> > Relaying is allowed, i can send mails from console having any problems.
> > 
> > Anyone got an idea??
> > 
> > Thx
> > Chris
> 





From doug.curtis at world-mail.org  Tue Oct 15 21:08:24 2002
From: doug.curtis at world-mail.org (Doug Curtis)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:08:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Error in mailman logs
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021014145102.00b2cd88@mail.gtrep.gatech.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.2.20021015150643.00bc8af8@world-mail.org>

At 02:52 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>I have started getting this error since last Friday in my mailman logs and 
>can't figure out how to fix it:
>
>Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Delivery exception: require_explicit_destination
>Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Traceback (innermost last):
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
> do_pipeline
>     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 178, in process
>     if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
>AttributeError: require_explicit_destination
>
>I have never had this problem before but it just started to pop up.
>
>I am running Redhat Linux 7.0.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Doug

Ok, one more thing I've just noticed, when I try to go to the privacy 
options of only one of my mail lists, I get a mailman error on the webpage 
but not on any of my other lists.  I'm not sure what is wrong with just 
that one list since I've done a check_db on it.

Thanks,

Doug




From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 21:47:50 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:47:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
References: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>
	<1034435725.1637.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
	<3DAAF6F7.2040405@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <15788.28902.136394.518192@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "MF" == Matt Filizzi <filizzi at umich.edu> writes:

    MF> Just as an update, what the problem was is someone subscribed
    MF> with an ' in their email address. (ex. o'brien at test.com) Does
    MF> anyone know if this is valid for email addresses?  I couldn't
    MF> find any mention in the RFC about it.

This may have been answered already (I'm clearing out my inbox).

Don't use the Sendmail.py DELIVERY_MODULE.  It calls out the shell,
and aside from being insecure, is vulnerable to weird quoting issues.
SMTPDirect.py is the way to go.

-Barry



From filizzi at umich.edu  Tue Oct 15 21:58:24 2002
From: filizzi at umich.edu (Matt Filizzi)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:58:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
References: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>	<1034435725.1637.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>	<3DAAF6F7.2040405@umich.edu> <15788.28902.136394.518192@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <3DAC7360.9020005@umich.edu>

We switched from using SMTPDirect to Sendmail because for some reason 
certin accounts were being set to nomail.  Presumably this was because 
Mailman was unable to connect to their server, and assumed it was down. 
  (that is only a guess)  I say that because using Sendmail it has not 
had that problem.

Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>>>>>>"MF" == Matt Filizzi <filizzi at umich.edu> writes:
>>>>>
> 
>     MF> Just as an update, what the problem was is someone subscribed
>     MF> with an ' in their email address. (ex. o'brien at test.com) Does
>     MF> anyone know if this is valid for email addresses?  I couldn't
>     MF> find any mention in the RFC about it.
> 
> This may have been answered already (I'm clearing out my inbox).
> 
> Don't use the Sendmail.py DELIVERY_MODULE.  It calls out the shell,
> and aside from being insecure, is vulnerable to weird quoting issues.
> SMTPDirect.py is the way to go.
> 
> -Barry

-- 
Matt Filizzi

Michigan Poverty Law Program
611 Church Street, Suite 4A
Ann Arbor, Michigan  48104
734.998.6100 x 23




From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 21:52:25 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:52:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
References: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
Message-ID: <15788.29177.333687.663304@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "BA" == Benas Adomavicius <benas at transtrado.lt> writes:

    BA> Hi all,

    BA> I have tried installing Mailman 2.1b3 on Mandrake 8.1
    BA> system. ./Configure went fine, however upon make install i
    BA> received following error:

    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ...
    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
    | Listing /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ...
    | Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
    | Traceback (most recent call last):
    |   File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
    |     from Mailman import Utils
    |   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
    |     import email.Iterators
    | ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
    | make: *** [update] Error 1

    BA> Does anyone know how I could resolve it? It seems to be asking
    BA> for module email.iterators, where could I find it?

I'm betting that the root cause of this is the same as the paths.py
problem on RH.  Are you using Python installed from RPM?

If so, be sure you install the devel package as well, otherwise your
Python will not have the distutils package, which is essential for
installing Mailman.  From-source installs of Python will not have this
problem, but it looks like RPM packagers have decided to put distutils
in the devel packages.

In MM2.1b4, configure will bark loudly if the distutils package isn't
available.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 22:02:12 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:02:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner unexpected EOF
References: <3DA6FF40.2090406@umich.edu>
	<1034435725.1637.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
	<3DAAF6F7.2040405@umich.edu>
	<15788.28902.136394.518192@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3DAC7360.9020005@umich.edu>
Message-ID: <15788.29764.462694.423322@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "MF" == Matt Filizzi <filizzi at umich.edu> writes:

    MF> We switched from using SMTPDirect to Sendmail because for some
    MF> reason certin accounts were being set to nomail.  Presumably
    MF> this was because Mailman was unable to connect to their
    MF> server, and assumed it was down. (that is only a guess) I say
    MF> that because using Sendmail it has not had that problem.

If you can't reach their server after repeated attempts, why wouldn't
you want to deactivate their accounts?  Note that if their problems
are transient, Mailman will give them a break and keep trying for a
while.  They really have to be down for a long time to get disabled.

-Barry



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 22:38:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 16:38:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Error in mailman logs
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.2.20021015150643.00bc8af8@world-mail.org>
References: <5.1.1.5.2.20021015150643.00bc8af8@world-mail.org>
Message-ID: <1034714533.1779.269.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You might need to regenerate the archives.  The mailman/bin/arch command
is used for that.

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 15:08, Doug Curtis wrote:
> At 02:52 PM 10/14/2002 -0400, you wrote:
> >I have started getting this error since last Friday in my mailman logs and 
> >can't figure out how to fix it:
> >
> >Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Delivery exception: require_explicit_destination
> >Oct 14 14:47:01 2002 (2656) Traceback (innermost last):
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in 
> > do_pipeline
> >     func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
> >   File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Hold.py", line 178, in process
> >     if mlist.require_explicit_destination and \
> >AttributeError: require_explicit_destination
> >
> >I have never had this problem before but it just started to pop up.
> >
> >I am running Redhat Linux 7.0.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Doug
> 
> Ok, one more thing I've just noticed, when I try to go to the privacy 
> options of only one of my mail lists, I get a mailman error on the webpage 
> but not on any of my other lists.  I'm not sure what is wrong with just 
> that one list since I've done a check_db on it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 15 22:38:26 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 16:38:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] multiple emails
In-Reply-To: <3DABEA18.4000407@mostert.nom.za>
References: <3DABEA18.4000407@mostert.nom.za>
Message-ID: <1034714380.1798.267.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The archives contain a lengthy discussion of this issue (from quite a
while back). 

What version of Mailman are you running?  You might want to upgrade at
this time if you are running a version below 2.0.13.

Also, how are the resources on your current server?  50thousand plus is
a lot of folks and it may be that it's time to upgrade your hardware.

I think that you are right about the problem being related to qrunner
and its timeout. It could simply be that it is taking soo long to
deliver a message that the lock file times out:

  # This variable specifies how long the lock will be retained 
  # for a specific operation on a mailing list.  Watch your 
  # logs/lock file and if you see a lot of lock breakages, you 
  # might need to bump this up.  However if you set this
  # too high, a faulty script (or incorrect use of bin/withlist) 
  # can prevent the list from being used until the lifetime 
  # expires.  This is probably one of the most crucial tuning 
  # variables in the system.
  LIST_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(5)

  # cron/qrunner lock lifetime.  This is probably the second
  # most crucial tuning variable in the system.  See the 
  # notes for LIST_LOCK_LIFETIME above.  Watch your logs/smtp
  # file and make sure that QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME is set longer
  # than the longest period you see here.  It is a bad thing 
  # if multiple qrunners run at the same time.
  QRUNNER_LOCK_LIFETIME = hours(10)

Hope this helps!  Take care - Jon Carnes

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 06:12, Mozzi wrote:
> Hi all
> 
> I get the problem that on verey large lists some people get mail 2 or 
> even 4 times. (50 000+)
> I use these lists to mail users on my system.
> 
> Now I think I know where the problem lies.
> in the config file it says this
> 
> QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = minutes(15)
> QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
> 
> I s it possible that my process liftime is just to long ?
> can I fafely set it to None ?
> 
> When setting it to none do I.....
> QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = 0
> or.....
> QRUNNER_PROCESS_LIFETIME = none ???
> 
> Am I on the right track here or is there another cure?
> 
> SECONDLY
> QRUNNER_MAX_MESSAGES = 300
> does this mean it sends mails out 300 @ a time ?
> Can I increase that to say 500?
> 
> Tnx all
> 
> Mozzi
> 
> -- 
>   _
> ( )	Ascii ribbon campaign against html email
>   X
> / \
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 23:15:33 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:15:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 and keepalive?
References: <00b601c2746a$a94238c0$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <15788.34165.99131.183325@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "spamfilter2" ==   <spamfilter2 at mupp.net> writes:

    spamfilter2> FOr some reason my 2.1 install stops running and has
    spamfilter2> to be restarted every week or so. I this a common
    spamfilter2> problem (prolly not since i cant find it in the
    spamfilter2> archives) or does someone have keepalive-script for
    spamfilter2> mailman?

I've been running our MM2.1b3 installation on python.org non-stop
without interruption or restart (except occasionally to sync to cvs).
Check your log files for details.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 15 23:27:17 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:27:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing From?
References: <1034679643.3dabf55b2a9f2@confixx.p15097023.pureserver.info>
	<1034703530.1779.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <15788.34869.474700.114072@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "JC" == Jon Carnes <jonc at nc.rr.com> writes:

    JC> This was not a function available in Mailman 2.0.x and I don't
    JC> think its available in 2.1.x series either.

Actually, check out the anonymous_list setting in the General admin
page.  It does some bit of anonymizing of the messages, including
getting rid of the original From header.  It's still possible to leak
identity of course, say in some X-* header (hmm, maybe these should be
removed too?), or in the content or style of the message <wink>, or in
the cute salutations.

you-can-run-but-you-can't-hide-ly y'rs,
-Barry



From korci at netstudio.hu  Wed Oct 16 00:23:48 2002
From: korci at netstudio.hu (Odri Kornel)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 00:23:48 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list
Message-ID: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix>

Hello!

Is it possible to create a private list where only one or two
subscribers can post, and the others can only read? And if possible,
than how? I've checked the list management web page, but I couldn't find
anything about it there.

Thanks for Your help:

Korci 

-- 
Odri Korn?l (Netstudio Hungary Kft.-- http://www.netstudio.hu )
Key fingerprint: 8B80 FEFA 3817 2432 A862  3620 C15F AA96 F681 97B2
mailto:korci at netstudio.hu
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021016/2495d354/attachment.pgp 

From reb at taco.com  Wed Oct 16 00:41:56 2002
From: reb at taco.com (Phydeaux)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 18:41:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Wrong domain on admin mail
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021015182727.03e88170@mail.taco.com>

I'm running 2.0.12 with about 15 lists, all of which are using the virtual
domain feature. New ones seem to have admin mail come "from" one of
the domains used by one of the first lists created, not from the domain
specified for the list. Users find this confusing.

What can I do to fix this?

reb




From alex at phred.org  Wed Oct 16 00:42:33 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210150814350.13020-100000@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20021015154046.M669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 15 Oct 2002, sean pambianco wrote:
> I'm using mailman 2.0.6.  My list is configured so that only members
> can post to the list and all posts must be approved by the
> administrator.  The other day an un-approved post was distributed to my
> list.  The post was not held for approval and I know it went out to the
> list because it showed up in the archives.
>
> Has anyone ever had an unauthorized post go out to a their list without
> administrative approval?  The email appeared to have come from the
> list-admin address.  Do later versions of mailman patch this?

It is very easy to forge the From:  line in email.  If a spammer
forges the From:  line to have a user which is on your list then it
will go through.  This isn't really a problem that Mailman itself can
solve.

I've also had a few examples of a member joining, sending spam, and
leaving the list very quickly.

alex




From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 16 00:52:27 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 18:52:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Problems with mailman 2.1b3 in a production environment
References: <20021011100246.46f1e8ca.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>
Message-ID: <m33cr7b9hw.fsf@zope.com>

>>>>> "GMdS" == Gleydson Mazioli da Silva
>>>>> <gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br> writes:

    GMdS> After updating the mailman 2.0.9 to 2.1b3, I got the
    GMdS> following problem:

    GMdS> After four days, all list messages were delivered
    GMdS> correctly. But now, no one message is delivered for list
    GMdS> members (I think normal members only). The postfix log show
    GMdS> the following message when it receives a message

    GMdS> And the processing stop at this point. No one list
    GMdS> configuration was changed and the /etc/init.d/mailman
    GMdS> process (the system runs in Debian GNU/Linux) is running to
    GMdS> deliver the messages.

Are there any stale locks in the locks directory?  Are there any
errors in the log files?  I'msure you tried restarting the qrunner
daemon, right?  Try "mailmanctl stop" followed by "mailmanctl start"
(this isn't exactly the same as "mailmanctl restart".

    GMdS> One thing: the message appear in
    GMdS> lists/list-name/digest.mbox, even if it isn't delivered.

So it's getting to the list, and it has to be being processed in the
incoming queue pipeline at least through to ToDigest.py.  That's a
good clue.  I'm betting messages are piling up in qfiles right?

-Barry





From barry at zope.com  Wed Oct 16 01:03:05 2002
From: barry at zope.com (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: 15 Oct 2002 19:03:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman: Co-operation with UNESCO
References: <3DA3E878.5075@kkt.bme.hu>
Message-ID: <m3wuoj9ufq.fsf@zope.com>

Looks like Satya already followed up, and this was posted a while
back, but I'll just add a few tidbits.  I'm reading this on gmane...

>>>>> "VP" == V?s?rhelyi P?l <p.vasarhelyi at kkt.bme.hu> writes:

    VP> UNESCO (the United Nations Educational, Scientific and
    VP> Cultural Organization) wishes to promote the use of freware
    VP> products/free services in the field of education in developing
    VP> countries, presenting them on its web-site in a harmonised way
    VP> and obtaining royalty-free use, when this needs specific
    VP> negotiations. The Budapest University of Technology is
    VP> assisting UNESCO in this task.

Cool!  Sounds like a good cause.

    VP> Understanding that Mailman is available as Open source, it
    VP> would be highly appreciated if you could confirm, that
    VP> educational institutions co-operating with UNESCO in
    VP> developing countries will have the right to download and
    VP> eventually modify it under GPL.

Yes of course.  GNU Mailman is GPL'd so you are free to do whatever
you want with it, including modifying it and redistributing the
modifications.  Hopefully, if the mods are useful to the general
Mailman community, you'll donate them back, or course. :)

GNU Mailman depends on Python, and while that is not GPL'd, the Python
Software Foundation licence that governs all modern stable versions of
Python also allow you to do anything you want with it.  Here's the
license for the freshly minted Python 2.2.2 release:

http://www.python.org/2.2.2/license.html

    VP> Should this be possible, we would need information on the
    VP> following characteristics of the software tool: - state of
    VP> development: is there a stable version?

Yes, Mailman 2.0.13 is the current stable release.
    
    VP> Date of Last update?

Mailman 2.0.13 was released on 29-Jul-2002.
    
    VP> - support available or planned, such as FAQ, demo version,
    VP> user manual, teacher guide, discussion forum,

As Satya mentioned, there is vibrant community support.  I hope to
work out some new documentation for the Mailman 2.1 release (currently
in very late beta testing).
    
    VP> - adaptability
    VP> to local requirements, such as possibility of personalisation,
    VP> using languages else than English,

Yes, but you'll want MM2.1 for these.
    
    VP> availability of counterpart
    VP> to assist external users.

I'm sorry, I don't know what that means.
    
    VP> .  - Hardware and Informatics knowledge required for use

General system administration knowledge is required, including web
server and mail server configuration experience, as well as general
Unix tool building knowledge.
    
    VP> - Download possibilities, such as
    VP> server-uptime.

Are you asking about what kind of statistics you can gather?  There's
lots of useful information in the log files, but digging it out is an
exercise left to the reader, at the moment.

    VP> Your kind co-operation would be a valuable contribution by
    VP> your institution and country to the development of education
    VP> in countries, where this is the crucial task to be solved in
    VP> order to reduce poverty and its consequences.

    | Thanks and best regards
    | Pal Vasarhelyi

Good luck, and you can contact me directly if you have any other
questions.

-Barry





From skye at ffwd.cx  Wed Oct 16 02:50:50 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 17:50:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce detection broken?
Message-ID: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx>

Hello,

I just upgraded from mailman 2.0beta4 to 2.0.13 (python 2.2.1) and
everything is going pretty smoothly, except certain kinds of bounces
aren't being picked up by the bounce detector.

I've verified that the Bouncers/*.py process() functions are being
called, and it picks up some bounces, but not others (one is from
MSEXCH)

I can collect a bunch of un-detected bounces and send them to someone
for analysis.  Please help, my list owners are being flooded with mail.
It's like being a majordomo owner all over again :)

Thanks,
Skye




From spamfilter2 at mupp.net  Wed Oct 16 07:02:25 2002
From: spamfilter2 at mupp.net (j2)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 07:02:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 and keepalive?
References: <00b601c2746a$a94238c0$7800a8c0@fozzie> <15788.34165.99131.183325@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <00ef01c274d1$38148150$7800a8c0@fozzie>

> I've been running our MM2.1b3 installation on python.org non-stop
> without interruption or restart (except occasionally to sync to cvs).
> Check your log files for details.

Nothing in there. It just "stops running".


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.401 / Virus Database: 226 - Release Date: 2002-10-12



From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 16 07:13:07 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:13:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1 and keepalive?
References: <00b601c2746a$a94238c0$7800a8c0@fozzie>
	<15788.34165.99131.183325@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<00ef01c274d1$38148150$7800a8c0@fozzie>
Message-ID: <15788.62819.803151.183587@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "spamfilter2" ==   <spamfilter2 at mupp.net> writes:

    >> I've been running our MM2.1b3 installation on python.org
    >> non-stop without interruption or restart (except occasionally
    >> to sync to cvs).  Check your log files for details.

    spamfilter2> Nothing in there. It just "stops running".

If that's really the case, and there's no trace of a problem in any of
the log files (including your mail server's logs), then you need to go
into debug mode.

- shut down the daemon with "mailmanctl stop"

- send a message to the list

- you should see two files in qfiles/in

- run the various qrunners manually, like so

    % bin/qrunner -r Incoming -o

- substitute other queues as necessary

- you should eventually end up with files in qfiles/out

- when you run "qrunner -r Outgoing -o" the files should get delivered
  to your smtpd, and you should be able to see that in the logs

- if that all flows without error, the problem must be in your mail
  server.

HTH,
-Barry



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 16 10:03:57 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 01:03:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam 
In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:42:33 PDT." <20021015154046.M669-100000@phred.org> 
References: <20021015154046.M669-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <15743.1034755437@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:

> It is very easy to forge the From: line in email.  If a spammer forges
> the From: line to have a user which is on your list then it will go
> through.  This isn't really a problem that Mailman itself can solve.

v2.1 authenticates on envelope as well.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From admin at web-standart.net  Wed Oct 16 10:04:19 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:19 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix>
Message-ID: <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana>

!!!Hello! Heelp - Myyy !!!

Is it possible to create a private list where only one or two
subscribers can post, and the others can only read? And if possible,
than how? Like majordomo or any, containing in body message: "Approved:
'password' " - to not to load administrators by constant requirement of the
approval!
I've checked the list management web page, but I couldn't find
anything about it there. (((

Thanks for Your help:

Jorj Kirey

----- Original Message -----
From: "Odri Kornel" <korci at netstudio.hu>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:23 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list






From cormack at chem.vu.nl  Wed Oct 16 10:21:26 2002
From: cormack at chem.vu.nl (Drew McCormack)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:21:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public archive doesn't get updated
Message-ID: <43DB1B0A-E0E0-11D6-BDFF-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>

I recently upgraded to Mac OS X 10.2, and I think I have somehow 
introduced an archiving problem. I recompiled my copy of Mailman, and 
everything works, except that messages do not appear in the public html 
pages. If I check the private directory, they are in the html pages 
there.

I am using Postfix and Apache; archiving worked before, so I don't 
think there is any problem with my copy of mailman. I have checked the 
Defaults.py file, but can't see anything wrong there.

I am no mailman expert, so I don't even know what the relation is 
between the public and private directories, and how each is filled. Can 
anyone guide me to the likely cause of my problem?

Drew

========================================
  Dr. Drew McCormack (Kmr. R153)
  Afd. Theoretische Chemie
  Faculteit Exacte Wetenschappen
  Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
  De Boelelaan 1083
  1081 HV Amsterdam
  The Netherlands

  Email		cormack at chem.vu.nl
  Telephone  	+31 20 44 47623
  Mobile		+31 6 483 21307
  Fax   		+31 20 44 47629




From mark at good-stuff.co.uk  Wed Oct 16 11:30:03 2002
From: mark at good-stuff.co.uk (Mark Goodge)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:30:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list
In-Reply-To: <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana>
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix>
Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20021016102214.00a94bb8@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>

At 11:04 16/10/2002 +0300, admin wrote:
>!!!Hello! Heelp - Myyy !!!
>
>Is it possible to create a private list where only one or two
>subscribers can post, and the others can only read? And if possible,
>than how? Like majordomo or any, containing in body message: "Approved:
>'password' " - to not to load administrators by constant requirement of the
>approval!
>I've checked the list management web page, but I couldn't find
>anything about it there. (((

Set "Restrict posting privilege to list members?" to "No", and then add 
your privileged posting addresses into the "Addresses of members accepted 
for posting to this list without implicit approval requirement" field.

See "Posting privileges explained" here:

http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html

for an explanation of how the various settings interact to achieve what you 
want.

Mark




From admin at web-standart.net  Wed Oct 16 11:38:49 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:38:49 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix> <5.0.2.1.2.20021016102214.00a94bb8@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
Message-ID: <00f801c274f7$dbebc100$1c00a8c0@liliana>

Then spammers will be able to fake headers of the message and  sending in my
list (
> >!!!Hello! Heelp - Myyy !!!
> >
> >Is it possible to create a private list where only one or two
> >subscribers can post, and the others can only read? And if possible,
> >than how? Like majordomo or any, containing in body message: "Approved:
> >'password' " - to not to load administrators by constant requirement of
the
> >approval!
> >I've checked the list management web page, but I couldn't find
> >anything about it there. (((
>
> Set "Restrict posting privilege to list members?" to "No", and then add
> your privileged posting addresses into the "Addresses of members accepted
> for posting to this list without implicit approval requirement" field.
Then spammers will be able to fake headers of the message and  sending in my
list (


>
> See "Posting privileges explained" here:
>
> http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html
>
> for an explanation of how the various settings interact to achieve what
you
> want.
>
> Mark
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From hennie at sabinet.co.za  Wed Oct 16 11:45:46 2002
From: hennie at sabinet.co.za (Hennie Rautenbach)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:45:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with configure
Message-ID: <3DAD354A.1050902@sabinet.co.za>

OS Solaris 8
Version: mailman-2.0.13
Python: 2.2.1

I have created the mailman user (uid 110) and the mailman group (gid 15)

When I run configure (as the mailman user) I get the following output:

(Stuff excluded at the top)

checking for true... /bin/true
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for gcc... /usr/local/bin/gcc
checking whether the C compiler (/usr/local/bin/gcc  ) works... yes
checking whether the C compiler (/usr/local/bin/gcc  ) is a 
cross-compiler... no
checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
checking whether /usr/local/bin/gcc accepts -g... yes
checking whether #! works in shell scripts... yes
checking for --with-var-prefix... no
checking for --with-username... mailman
checking for mailman UID... Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "conftest.py", line 1, in ?
    import pwd, string
ImportError: No module named pwd
cat: cannot open conftest.out

configure: error:
***** No "mailman" user found!
***** Your system must have a "mailman" user defined
***** (usually in your /etc/passwd file).  Please see the INSTALL
***** file for details.

I can confirm that the mailman user and group exist. I can log in fine 
as "mailman".

What am I doing wrong here ?

Any advice or help will be much appreciated.

Regards,

Hennie (first time mailman user)

 
===================================================================
 Hennie Rautenbach                  Work: http://www.sabinet.co.za
 082-556-1191                       Play: http://www.overland.co.za	

 It's choice, not chance, that determines your destiny. 
                                       -- Jean Nidetch
 ===================================================================



#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared 
by MailMarshal
For more information please visit www.marshalsoftware.com
#####################################################################################



From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Wed Oct 16 12:39:05 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:39:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with configure
In-Reply-To: <3DAD354A.1050902@sabinet.co.za>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021016113617.00a72b68@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 10:45 16/10/2002, Hennie Rautenbach wrote:
>OS Solaris 8
>Version: mailman-2.0.13
>Python: 2.2.1
>
>I have created the mailman user (uid 110) and the mailman group (gid 15)
>
>When I run configure (as the mailman user) I get the following output:
>
>(Stuff excluded at the top)
>
>checking for true... /bin/true
>checking for --without-gcc... no
>checking for gcc... /usr/local/bin/gcc
>checking whether the C compiler (/usr/local/bin/gcc  ) works... yes
>checking whether the C compiler (/usr/local/bin/gcc  ) is a 
>cross-compiler... no
>checking whether we are using GNU C... yes
>checking whether /usr/local/bin/gcc accepts -g... yes
>checking whether #! works in shell scripts... yes
>checking for --with-var-prefix... no
>checking for --with-username... mailman
>checking for mailman UID... Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "conftest.py", line 1, in ?
>    import pwd, string
>ImportError: No module named pwd
>cat: cannot open conftest.out
>
>configure: error:
>***** No "mailman" user found!
>***** Your system must have a "mailman" user defined
>***** (usually in your /etc/passwd file).  Please see the INSTALL
>***** file for details.
>
>I can confirm that the mailman user and group exist. I can log in fine as 
>"mailman".
>
>What am I doing wrong here ?
>
>Any advice or help will be much appreciated.
>
>Regards,
>
>Hennie (first time mailman user)

Your problem is a Python installation one rather than a Mailman one. See 
this archived post to this list for more explanation:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg11920.html




From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Wed Oct 16 15:30:54 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:30:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Cron <root@raw-talent> /usr/bin/mrtg /etc/mrtg/mrtg.cfg
Message-ID: <000301c27518$4209f950$1401a8c0@jmc.netcafe>

I just cleared out my HTML dir, so that I could upload a new website, and
all of a sudden I get this error? I'm guessing it's because I removed the
below directory.... the question is, what is it, and what does it do?? More
importantly, how do I put it back? Any help would be appreciated, thanks in
advance.


-----Original Message-----
From: Cron Daemon [mailto:root at raw-talent.d2g.com]
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 7:20 PM
To: root at raw-talent.d2g.com
Subject: Cron <root at raw-talent> /usr/bin/mrtg /etc/mrtg/mrtg.cfg


ERROR: CFG Error in "workdir", line 0: Working directory /var/www/html/mrtg
does not exist



---
Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/2002





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 16:11:42 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 10:11:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKIEHECMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
References: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKIEHECMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
Message-ID: <1034777503.1819.11.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

As a guess, I would say that you have a routing problem with your MTA
(postfix). You might need to setup Postfix so that it allows relaying
from 127.0.0.1 (localhost).

As to the footer, try sending a text message to the list and see if the
footer is included then.  I'm guessing again, but you are probably
sending HTML email to the list, and the email is constructed so that it
stops displaying before the footer text.

Hope this helps - Jon Carnes

On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 04:02, Benas Adomavicius wrote:
> Dear Jon,
> 
> Thanks for your info. This helped immensly. Mailman has installed and is
> running.
> 
> A strange thing that has come up, which I am still trying to trace down.  I
> have created a test mailing list. When mailing to local clients (email
> addresses on my local network) everything works like a charm. However, when
> I add outside email addresses, message does not go out! Further more, no
> evidence of that message is present in the mailman logs either! Very
> strange, currently I am looking at my postfix logs seeing what happened to
> that email.
> 
> Also it seems that mailman does not place a footer at the end of messages
> either. Have you encountered something similar in past?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> Benas
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
> > [mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jon Carnes
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2002 7:19 PM
> > To: Benas Adomavicius
> > Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> > Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
> >
> >
> > Interesting... there was a comment last week about Red Hat's 8.0
> > distribution - they didn't include some of the Python modules needed for
> > the installation of Mailman.  I wonder if this is also true for Mandrake
> > 8.1.  Have you tried it on Mandrake 8.2?
> >
> > You might try going back to the install CD and installing all packages
> > related to Python.
> >
> > Good Luck
> >
> > On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 03:41, Benas Adomavicius wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have tried installing Mailman 2.1b3 on Mandrake 8.1 system.
> > ./Configure
> > > went fine, however upon make install i received following error:
> > >
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ...
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> > > Listing /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ...
> > > Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> > > Traceback (most recent call last):
> > >   File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
> > >     from Mailman import Utils
> > >   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
> > >     import email.Iterators
> > > ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
> > > make: *** [update] Error 1
> > >
> > >
> > > Does anyone know how I could resolve it? It seems to be asking
> > for module
> > > email.iterators, where could I find it?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ____________________________________________
> > > Transtrado
> > > International transport and logistics
> > > phone +370 5 2793333
> > > fax +370 5 2793025
> > > ICQ: 16733824
> > > ____________________________________________
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 





From ERantanen at osc.uscg.mil  Wed Oct 16 17:27:09 2002
From: ERantanen at osc.uscg.mil (Rantanen, TC1)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:27:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin passwd
Message-ID: <13828F680182D511893300508BD68317022AFB9C@oscex2-bu.osc.uscg.mil>

Is there away to find an admin passwd for the web pages?

I have root access to the system.

Not sure if the passwd is stored somewhere with in the mailman configs or
db's.

Ed Rantanen



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 17:37:13 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:37:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public archive doesn't get updated
In-Reply-To: <43DB1B0A-E0E0-11D6-BDFF-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>
References: <43DB1B0A-E0E0-11D6-BDFF-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>
Message-ID: <1034782633.1819.95.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

When you go to the webadmin and look at the Archival Options section -
are your archives marked as private or public?

On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 04:21, Drew McCormack wrote:
> I recently upgraded to Mac OS X 10.2, and I think I have somehow 
> introduced an archiving problem. I recompiled my copy of Mailman, and 
> everything works, except that messages do not appear in the public html 
> pages. If I check the private directory, they are in the html pages 
> there.
> 
> I am using Postfix and Apache; archiving worked before, so I don't 
> think there is any problem with my copy of mailman. I have checked the 
> Defaults.py file, but can't see anything wrong there.
> 
> I am no mailman expert, so I don't even know what the relation is 
> between the public and private directories, and how each is filled. Can 
> anyone guide me to the likely cause of my problem?
> 
> Drew
> 
> ========================================
>   Dr. Drew McCormack (Kmr. R153)
>   Afd. Theoretische Chemie
>   Faculteit Exacte Wetenschappen
>   Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
>   De Boelelaan 1083
>   1081 HV Amsterdam
>   The Netherlands
> 
>   Email		cormack at chem.vu.nl
>   Telephone  	+31 20 44 47623
>   Mobile		+31 6 483 21307
>   Fax   		+31 20 44 47629
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From cormack at chem.vu.nl  Wed Oct 16 17:43:42 2002
From: cormack at chem.vu.nl (Drew McCormack)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:43:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public archive doesn't get updated
In-Reply-To: <1034782633.1819.95.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <0C85ED25-E11E-11D6-91A7-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 05:37  pm, Jon Carnes wrote:

> When you go to the webadmin and look at the Archival Options section -
> are your archives marked as private or public?
"public", so that is not it, I guess.

Drew

>
> On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 04:21, Drew McCormack wrote:
>> I recently upgraded to Mac OS X 10.2, and I think I have somehow
>> introduced an archiving problem. I recompiled my copy of Mailman, and
>> everything works, except that messages do not appear in the public 
>> html
>> pages. If I check the private directory, they are in the html pages
>> there.
>>
>> I am using Postfix and Apache; archiving worked before, so I don't
>> think there is any problem with my copy of mailman. I have checked the
>> Defaults.py file, but can't see anything wrong there.
>>
>> I am no mailman expert, so I don't even know what the relation is
>> between the public and private directories, and how each is filled. 
>> Can
>> anyone guide me to the likely cause of my problem?
>>
>> Drew
>>
>> ========================================
>>   Dr. Drew McCormack (Kmr. R153)
>>   Afd. Theoretische Chemie
>>   Faculteit Exacte Wetenschappen
>>   Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
>>   De Boelelaan 1083
>>   1081 HV Amsterdam
>>   The Netherlands
>>
>>   Email		cormack at chem.vu.nl
>>   Telephone  	+31 20 44 47623
>>   Mobile		+31 6 483 21307
>>   Fax   		+31 20 44 47629
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
========================================
  Dr. Drew McCormack (Kmr. R153)
  Afd. Theoretische Chemie
  Faculteit Exacte Wetenschappen
  Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam
  De Boelelaan 1083
  1081 HV Amsterdam
  The Netherlands

  Email		cormack at chem.vu.nl
  Telephone  	+31 20 44 47623
  Mobile		+31 6 483 21307
  Fax   		+31 20 44 47629




From peter.smith at UTSouthwestern.edu  Wed Oct 16 18:06:55 2002
From: peter.smith at UTSouthwestern.edu (Peter Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:06:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing the admin password for a list
Message-ID: <3DAD8E9F.1080305@utsouthwestern.edu>

I successfully changed the password for a list.  Is anyone interested in 
the process on how to do this?  Or is there some documented method of 
doing this already (because I could not find it!)?

If there is interest I will post it.

Peter Smith




From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 16 18:48:27 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 09:48:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
In-Reply-To: Message from admin <admin@web-standart.net> 
   of "Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:19 +0300." <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix>  <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> 
Message-ID: <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:19 +0300 
admin  <admin at web-standart.net> wrote:

> !!!Hello! Heelp - Myyy !!!  

Please see the FAQ:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py 

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From admin at web-standart.net  Wed Oct 16 18:58:21 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:58:21 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix>  <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana>  <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana>

> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 11:04:19 +0300
> admin  <admin at web-standart.net> wrote:
>
> > !!!Hello! Heelp - Myyy !!!
>
> Please see the FAQ:
3.11. How do I create a newsletter (admin-post only) ?
.......
I this understands, but me necessary to know as mailman checks authenticity
sending - after all headline of the message much easy fake - in majordomo -
a line in tele letter " Approved: password" - but here that?

=========
Jorj_K Kiev




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 19:08:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 13:08:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems including footer in HTML mail using
	Mailman 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKIEMNCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
References: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKIEMNCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
Message-ID: <1034788133.1819.106.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 10:20, Benas Adomavicius wrote:
> Otherwise, footer issue remains a
> mistery. In fact, when I receve bounced messages, footer is included in a
> attachement. However in the main email it does not go out visible. Should I
> include some HTML tags in the footer to show it?
> 
> Benas
> 

This is an HTML/MIME problem. It is addressed better in the 2.1.x series
(which you are running), but apparently not well enough for your
purposes. Others on the list have more experience with that than I do.

The footer should appear fine on Text based email messages that folks
send to the list, but HTML based emails will have problems with the
footer.  The footer will be included, but may not be displayed.

If you have any interesting info that you really need to appear in every
message, you might consider switching that info to the header.
The other alternative is simply to create a monthly message with list
information/etiquette and send that out via a cron-job. 

Good Luck - Jon Carnes




From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 16 19:57:22 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:57:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
In-Reply-To: Message from admin <admin@web-standart.net> 
   of "Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:58:21 +0300." <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana> 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix> <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu>  <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana> 
Message-ID: <24011.1034791042@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 19:58:21 +0300 
admin  <admin at web-standart.net> wrote:

> 3.11. How do I create a newsletter (admin-post only) ?  .......  I
> this understands, but me necessary to know as mailman checks
> authenticity sending - after all headline of the message much easy
> fake - in majordomo - a line in tele letter " Approved: password" -
> but here that?

Only in v2.1.

v2.0 checks either From: or envelope (configurable).  v2.1 checks both
can use a password header to approve posts thru the moderation
interface.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 20:07:11 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 14:07:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Public archive doesn't get updated
In-Reply-To: <0C85ED25-E11E-11D6-91A7-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>
References: <0C85ED25-E11E-11D6-91A7-003065BD3BD8@chem.vu.nl>
Message-ID: <1034791632.1819.162.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Hmmm... backup the current directory 
   ~mailman/archives/public/<listname> 
and then recreate it as a link pointing to
   ~mailman/archives/private/<listname>

cd /home/mailman/archives/public
mv mylist bak.mylist
ln -s /home/mailman/archives/private/mylist mylist

When you do an "ls -l" in the ~mailman/archives/public/..  directory it
should look something like this:
   mylist -> /home/mailman/archives/private/mylist

Test that out and see if doesn't open up your archives for the world to
see!

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

===
On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 11:43, Drew McCormack wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 05:37  pm, Jon Carnes wrote:
> 
> > When you go to the webadmin and look at the Archival Options section -
> > are your archives marked as private or public?
> "public", so that is not it, I guess.
> 
> Drew
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 19:58:42 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 13:58:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman passwords
In-Reply-To: 
	<13828F680182D511893300508BD68317022AFB9C@oscex2-bu.osc.uscg.mil>
References: 
	<13828F680182D511893300508BD68317022AFB9C@oscex2-bu.osc.uscg.mil>
Message-ID: <1034791122.1819.153.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

There are three types of passwords:

 - User password, this is simply the password for the mailman user on
your server, it lets you login as the user "mailman", all of Mailman's
processes run as this user.  To change this password, login as root and
run:
    passwd mailman

 - Mailman Site password, this lets you login to any list as an admin
and look at or modify the configuration, as well as approve posts
(anything an admin of the list can do).  To change this password, login
to the server as root or the mailman user and run:
    ~mailman/bin/mmsitepass

 - List password, each list has a password that allows a local admin to
modify or configure the list, as well as approve posts to the list.  To
change this password, login to the Web Admin page for the list (using
the Mailman Site password), go to the bottom of the General Options web
page and put in the new password.  This password will be specific to
this list.

Hope this helps!

Jon Carnes
===
On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 11:27, Rantanen, TC1 wrote:
> Is there away to find an admin passwd for the web pages?
> 
> I have root access to the system.
> 
> Not sure if the passwd is stored somewhere with in the mailman configs or
> db's.
> 
> Ed Rantanen
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From skye at ffwd.cx  Wed Oct 16 21:58:47 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 12:58:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce detection broken?
In-Reply-To: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx>
References: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx>
Message-ID: <20021016195846.GY34719@ffwd.cx>

Well, since nobody helped, I went ahead and started debugging the stuff
in Bouncers/*.py

First I took a look at why Hotmail bounces weren't being caught in
DSN.py.  Here's an example with my debugging:

Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN parsing header {'action': 'failed',
'final-recipient': 'rfc822;djmattie at hotmail.com', 'status': '5.0.0',
'original-recipient': ''}
Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN got val
Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN parsing header {'action': 'failed',
'final-recipient': 'rfc822;primordialnature at hotmail.com', 'status':
'5.0.0', 'original-recipient': ''}
Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN got val
Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN parsing header {'action': 'failed',
'final-recipient': 'rfc822;j_j_vernon at hotmail.com', 'status': '5.0.0',
'original-recipient': ''}
Oct 16 12:46:01 2002 (11207) DSN got val

So for some reason the final-recipient was there but it wasn't picking
it up.  So on a hunch I changed this line:

       val = headers.get('original-recipient',
                         headers.get('final-recipient'))

to simply this:

        val = headers.get('final-recipient')

and now val is filled, and DSN bounce detection works in this case.

Why was the header not being found????????
Skye


Word on the street is Skye Poier said:
> Hello,
> 
> I just upgraded from mailman 2.0beta4 to 2.0.13 (python 2.2.1) and
> everything is going pretty smoothly, except certain kinds of bounces
> aren't being picked up by the bounce detector.
> 
> I've verified that the Bouncers/*.py process() functions are being
> called, and it picks up some bounces, but not others (one is from
> MSEXCH)
> 
> I can collect a bunch of un-detected bounces and send them to someone
> for analysis.  Please help, my list owners are being flooded with mail.
> It's like being a majordomo owner all over again :)
> 
> Thanks,
> Skye
> 



From snixon at rednut.net  Wed Oct 16 21:51:21 2002
From: snixon at rednut.net (Stuart Nixon)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:51:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linkup to xmailserver / help with how wrapper works
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016202215.01f59c18@localhost>

hello

i have just installed mailman 2.0.13 all's installed ok. but i need a 
little help in finding out how to link up mail delivery from xmailserver 
(www.xmailserver.org) to mailman. i assume wrapper is used for this purpose 
in some way.

does anyone have any links to any documentation describing what / how 
mailman accepts delivery of messages. particularly what wrapper expects as 
parameters.

i have looked at the README.*'s and searched the archive for any mention of 
xmail or xmailserver but found nothing that seems relevant to this

any help or suggestions would be gratefully received

stuart nixon




From jsimmons at goblin.punk.net  Wed Oct 16 22:15:26 2002
From: jsimmons at goblin.punk.net (Jeff Simmons)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:15:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
Message-ID: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>

I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot of 
messages from us on the floor.

I'm guessing here, but I think they've put in a filter that kills messages 
with a certain number of multiple recipients (note that Mailman does this by 
default, but holds the messages for admin approval).  If so, we're gonna have 
problems.

Anyone else seeing this kind of thing?

-- 
Jeff Simmons				       jsimmons at goblin.punk.net
     Simmons Consulting - Network Engineering, Administration, Security
    "You guys, I don't hear any noise.  Are you sure you're doing it right?"
                        - My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult



From skye at ffwd.cx  Wed Oct 16 22:18:43 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:18:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
References: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
Message-ID: <20021016201843.GA34719@ffwd.cx>

I'm having this problem as well.  I tried changing Precedence: bulk to
'list', but that didn't seem to help.

Skye

Word on the street is Jeff Simmons said:
> I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot of 
> messages from us on the floor.
> 
> I'm guessing here, but I think they've put in a filter that kills messages 
> with a certain number of multiple recipients (note that Mailman does this by 
> default, but holds the messages for admin approval).  If so, we're gonna have 
> problems.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this kind of thing?
> 



From tim1 at timduru.org  Wed Oct 16 22:18:52 2002
From: tim1 at timduru.org (timduru)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:18:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
References: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
Message-ID: <20021016221852.313e14f9.tim1@timduru.org>

On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:15:26 -0700
Jeff Simmons <jsimmons at goblin.punk.net> wrote:


> I'm guessing here, but I think they've put in a filter that kills
> messages with a certain number of multiple recipients (note that
> Mailman does this by default, but holds the messages for admin
> approval).  If so, we're gonna have problems.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this kind of thing?


yes, same with my lists. 
When I send an email directly to one of the bouncing emails 
it works fine. 
It seems hotmail has some sort of new filter in place, and that mails
coming from mailman lists are matched by it.. 




From skye at ffwd.cx  Wed Oct 16 22:31:42 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:31:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <20021016221852.313e14f9.tim1@timduru.org>
References: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net> <20021016221852.313e14f9.tim1@timduru.org>
Message-ID: <20021016203142.GD12436@ffwd.cx>

I just did another test, with a normal list post.  If you have your
hotmail set to "enhanced" junk mail filtering, list mail goes in the
junk mail folder (or trash) automatically no matter what the Precedence
header, because its not To: me at hotmail.  If its in the Junk mail folder,
you can click on it and say "this isn't junk mail" and then "this is a
mail list i'm on" which excludes it from the filter rules.

sigh

Skye

Word on the street is timduru said:
> On Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:15:26 -0700
> Jeff Simmons <jsimmons at goblin.punk.net> wrote:
> 
> 
> > I'm guessing here, but I think they've put in a filter that kills
> > messages with a certain number of multiple recipients (note that
> > Mailman does this by default, but holds the messages for admin
> > approval).  If so, we're gonna have problems.
> > 
> > Anyone else seeing this kind of thing?
> 
> 
> yes, same with my lists. 
> When I send an email directly to one of the bouncing emails 
> it works fine. 
> It seems hotmail has some sort of new filter in place, and that mails
> coming from mailman lists are matched by it.. 
> 



From chil at kyndig.com  Wed Oct 16 22:29:04 2002
From: chil at kyndig.com (Bobby Bailey)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:29:04 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
References: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
Message-ID: <200210161629.04803.chil@kyndig.com>

On Wednesday 16 October 2002 04:15 pm, Jeff Simmons wrote:
> I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot of 
> messages from us on the floor.
> 
> I'm guessing here, but I think they've put in a filter that kills messages 
> with a certain number of multiple recipients (note that Mailman does this by 
> default, but holds the messages for admin approval).  If so, we're gonna 
have 
> problems.
> 
> Anyone else seeing this kind of thing?
> 
> -- 
> Jeff Simmons				       jsimmons at goblin.punk.net
>      Simmons Consulting - Network Engineering, Administration, Security
>     "You guys, I don't hear any noise.  Are you sure you're doing it right?"
>                         - My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 

Here's something from another list I'm on that's experiencing problems:


----- Original Message -----
From: "Troy Fisher" 
To: "Jason Gauthier","'Mike Barton'"
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 12:06 PM
Subject: Re: ADMINISTRIVIA: Hotmail Users Removed from ROM Mailing List


> This is what I got from My local LUG Support groupies:
>
> On Wed, Oct 16, 2002 at 10:52:13AM -0700, Troy Fisher wrote:
> > Microsoft has decided that this mailing list is spam.
> >
> > So, all hotmail subscribers have been removed from the list.
>
>  Incorrect. Hotmail is having issues with a spooler of theirs that's
> choking on mis-timestamped mails. The messages from listproc go through
this
> spooler, which fills up and bounces mail.
>
>  I spent about an hour on the phone with Hotmail, found out what was
> broken, found the listproc admins at IT, and put the two together. As
> annoying as seeing all the bounces is, I'm leaving all the Hotmail
> subscribers on the list because this is a problem I expect to see cleared
up
> quickly.
>
>


-- 
Bobby Bailey    | "The only source of knowledge is experience."
MUD Developer   | -- Albert Einstein
Internet Junkie | PGP Keys: http://chil.kyndig.com/pgp
http://www.kyndig.com/ -- Mud & Online Text Game Community




From sb.list at sb.org  Wed Oct 16 22:34:58 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:34:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <20021016203142.GD12436@ffwd.cx>
Message-ID: <B9D345B2.48FDB%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/16/02 4:31 PM, "Skye Poier" <skye at ffwd.cx> wrote:

> I just did another test, with a normal list post.  If you have your
> hotmail set to "enhanced" junk mail filtering, list mail goes in the
> junk mail folder (or trash) automatically no matter what the Precedence
> header, because its not To: me at hotmail.  If its in the Junk mail folder,
> you can click on it and say "this isn't junk mail" and then "this is a
> mail list i'm on" which excludes it from the filter rules.
> 
> sigh

The new "personalized" setting in Mailman should fix this, since it puts the
subscriber's address in the To: field.

 - Stoney




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 16 22:54:41 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:54:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <200210162015.g9GKFQq13616@goblin.punk.net>
Message-ID: <7E2CF420-E149-11D6-9047-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>

On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 01:15  PM, Jeff Simmons wrote:

> I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot 
> of
> messages from us on the floor.
>

Hotmail seems to be more broken than usual.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech, Apple IS&T E-mail systems
chuq at apple.com




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Wed Oct 16 23:04:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 17:04:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Linkup to xmailserver / help with how wrapper
	works
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016202215.01f59c18@localhost>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016202215.01f59c18@localhost>
Message-ID: <1034802276.1644.207.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

The aliases setup for a list tells it all:

mylist:           "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper post mylist"
mylist-admin:     "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner mylist"
mylist-request:   "|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd mylist"
mylist-owner:     mylist-admin

Wrapper takes as input the following keywords:
  post - send the incoming message to the list "mylist"
  mailowner - send the incoming message to owners of "mylist"
  mailcmd - send the incoming message to the command interpreter

The keyword must be followed by a list name.

Good Luck with your setup!

===
On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 15:51, Stuart Nixon wrote:
> hello
> 
> i have just installed mailman 2.0.13 all's installed ok. but i need a 
> little help in finding out how to link up mail delivery from xmailserver 
> (www.xmailserver.org) to mailman. i assume wrapper is used for this purpose 
> in some way.
> 
> does anyone have any links to any documentation describing what / how 
> mailman accepts delivery of messages. particularly what wrapper expects as 
> parameters.
> 
> i have looked at the README.*'s and searched the archive for any mention of 
> xmail or xmailserver but found nothing that seems relevant to this
> 
> any help or suggestions would be gratefully received
> 
> stuart nixon
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From mailmanlist at maneuveringspeed.com  Thu Oct 17 00:09:44 2002
From: mailmanlist at maneuveringspeed.com (Greg Long)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 15:09:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin and Mailman - like this?
In-Reply-To: <BC50EA45A923D61191D700065B05EBA979AD15@PLUTO>
Message-ID: <004001c27560$bd25da80$6401a8c0@Endeavor>

I *BELEIVE* I have it, but I prefer not to test it by spamming the list
unless neccessary.

In the Privacy Options section, Form box "Hold posts with header value
matching a specified regexp."  I added two lines to the default so that
it now contains (between the  "-------" lines):
----------------------------------------------
# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
to: friend at public.com
message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
from: list at listme.com
from: .*@uplinkpro.com
subject: *****SPAM*****
from: jenny600 at hotmail.com
----------------------------------------------

The last from: address is one I allow to collect spam.  The previous
line is the one I am concerned about.  My Spamassassin installation tags
spam with the subject *****SPAM***** I would like Mailman to hold
messages containing this for approval by the admin (me).

Does this sound like I set it up OK?

Thanks,
Greg
Klamath Linux-Unix Group (KLUG)




From jared at synapseglobal.com  Thu Oct 17 01:12:18 2002
From: jared at synapseglobal.com (jared sanders)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:12:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman isn't sending out mail...
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016161206.009fb2b0@k2.synapseglobal.com>

Basically mail isn't going through to the lists. Not sure where to check 
for any type of error logs. There wasn't a problem until we upgraded, not 
sure if anyone else has experienced this or not. Any help would be 
appreciated, thanks.




From skye at ffwd.cx  Thu Oct 17 02:00:47 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 17:00:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce detection broken?
In-Reply-To: <20021016195846.GY34719@ffwd.cx>
References: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx> <20021016195846.GY34719@ffwd.cx>
Message-ID: <20021017000047.GI15943@ffwd.cx>

Another followup.
I added the following to SimpleMatch.py

    # MSEXCH
    (_c('did not reach the following recipient'),
     _c('MSEXCH:'),
     _c('(?P<addr>[^ ]*) on ')),

to catch bounces like this:

Your message

  To:      test at ffwd.cx
  Subject: [Test] test8
  Sent:    Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:51:22 -0500

did not reach the following recipient(s):

martind at icpas.org on Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:57:11 -0500
    The recipient name is not recognized
        The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=illinois cpa
soc;l=ICPASNT102101600574W9M1ATW
    MSEXCH:IMS:Illinois CPA Society:ICPAS:ICPASNT1 0 (000C05A6) Unknown
Recipient

However the DSN match problem is unexplained, and I'm not sure why my
OLD version of mailman 2.0beta4 did NOT spam list-admin with these.

Should I be directing this to mailman-developers?  I feel like I'm
talking to myself...

Skye




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 17 02:59:17 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 20:59:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin and Mailman - like this?
In-Reply-To: <004001c27560$bd25da80$6401a8c0@Endeavor>
References: <004001c27560$bd25da80$6401a8c0@Endeavor>
Message-ID: <1034816361.2644.78.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I'm wondering if you need to front-end each of those *'s with a \

Alternately, you could modify Spam Assassin to use a different
character.

On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 18:09, Greg Long wrote:
> I *BELEIVE* I have it, but I prefer not to test it by spamming the list
> unless neccessary.
> 
> In the Privacy Options section, Form box "Hold posts with header value
> matching a specified regexp."  I added two lines to the default so that
> it now contains (between the  "-------" lines):
> ----------------------------------------------
> # Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
> to: friend at public.com
> message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
> from: list at listme.com
> from: .*@uplinkpro.com
> subject: *****SPAM*****
> from: jenny600 at hotmail.com
> ----------------------------------------------
> 
> The last from: address is one I allow to collect spam.  The previous
> line is the one I am concerned about.  My Spamassassin installation tags
> spam with the subject *****SPAM***** I would like Mailman to hold
> messages containing this for approval by the admin (me).
> 
> Does this sound like I set it up OK?
> 
> Thanks,
> Greg
> Klamath Linux-Unix Group (KLUG)
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 17 03:23:17 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 16 Oct 2002 21:23:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce detection broken?
In-Reply-To: <20021017000047.GI15943@ffwd.cx>
References: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx>
	<20021016195846.GY34719@ffwd.cx>  <20021017000047.GI15943@ffwd.cx>
Message-ID: <1034817797.2640.98.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I'm actually enjoying the conversation (though it is one sided).  I've
modified most of the other parts of Mailman at one time or another and
always wanted to look at the bounce sections - just never had a good
reason to.

Looks like it's as easy to modify as the other modules.

If you take it to the Dev list, I'll have to re-up on that list in order
to follow the thread! Worse things could happen.

Thanks for sharing the work!

Jon Carnes

On Wed, 2002-10-16 at 20:00, Skye Poier wrote:
> Another followup.
> I added the following to SimpleMatch.py
> 
>     # MSEXCH
>     (_c('did not reach the following recipient'),
>      _c('MSEXCH:'),
>      _c('(?P<addr>[^ ]*) on ')),
> 
> to catch bounces like this:
> 
> Your message
> 
>   To:      test at ffwd.cx
>   Subject: [Test] test8
>   Sent:    Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:51:22 -0500
> 
> did not reach the following recipient(s):
> 
> martind at icpas.org on Tue, 15 Oct 2002 19:57:11 -0500
>     The recipient name is not recognized
>         The MTS-ID of the original message is: c=us;a= ;p=illinois cpa
> soc;l=ICPASNT102101600574W9M1ATW
>     MSEXCH:IMS:Illinois CPA Society:ICPAS:ICPASNT1 0 (000C05A6) Unknown
> Recipient
> 
> However the DSN match problem is unexplained, and I'm not sure why my
> OLD version of mailman 2.0beta4 did NOT spam list-admin with these.
> 
> Should I be directing this to mailman-developers?  I feel like I'm
> talking to myself...
> 
> Skye
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From pietro at bastardi.net  Thu Oct 17 03:05:59 2002
From: pietro at bastardi.net (pietro)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:05:59 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin and Mailman - like this?
References: <004001c27560$bd25da80$6401a8c0@Endeavor> <1034816361.2644.78.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DAE0CF7.7020108@bastardi.net>

Jon Carnes escreveu:
> I'm wondering if you need to front-end each of those *'s with a \
> 
> Alternately, you could modify Spam Assassin to use a different
> character.

Spam Assassin also adds 'X-Spam-Status: yes' to the message header. you 
can you this regexp to block spam to your list.

pietro.





From mailmanlist at maneuveringspeed.com  Thu Oct 17 03:35:18 2002
From: mailmanlist at maneuveringspeed.com (Greg Long)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 18:35:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin and Mailman - like this?
In-Reply-To: <3DAE0CF7.7020108@bastardi.net>
Message-ID: <004601c2757d$7368b940$6401a8c0@Endeavor>

I used BOTH, actually :)

and I had to learn the syntax for a regular expression...indeed
preceeding the asterisks with a backslash:

X-Spam-Status: Yes
Subject: \*\*\*\*\*SPAM\*\*\*\*\*

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org] On Behalf Of pietro
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 6:06 PM
To: Jon Carnes
Cc: Greg Long; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Spamassassin and Mailman - like this?


Jon Carnes escreveu:
> I'm wondering if you need to front-end each of those *'s with a \
> 
> Alternately, you could modify Spam Assassin to use a different 
> character.

Spam Assassin also adds 'X-Spam-Status: yes' to the message header. you 
can you this regexp to block spam to your list.

pietro.



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From dene at ulmschneiders.com  Thu Oct 17 04:25:31 2002
From: dene at ulmschneiders.com (Dene Ulmschneider)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:25:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non moderated lists are holding messages for approval
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021016222525.00b7b698@mail.datatechie.com>

I have several lists running on my mailman install and it seems that lists 
that I have set to hole messages for admin approval are actually allowing 
messages through without approval. Mailman is also holding messages on 
lists that are not set for moderation and even when I have my email address 
set to be allowed to post no matter what - it still holds my messages tot 
he list.

Anyone know why this would happen and have any suggestions on how to fix this?


Thank you,

Dene Ulmschneider
------------------------------------------------------------------------
home:           718.322.6636
office:         718.738.8859
pager:          917.654.0479
toll free:      888.891.6385
email:          dene at ulmschneiders.com
pager mail:     denenow at ulmschneiders.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life is too short...-...you  should have dessert first"




From william+mm at hq.newdream.net  Thu Oct 17 05:04:04 2002
From: william+mm at hq.newdream.net (Will Yardley)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 20:04:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: spam
In-Reply-To: <15743.1034755437@kanga.nu>
References: <20021015154046.M669-100000@phred.org> <15743.1034755437@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20021017030404.GE27008@hq.newdream.net>

J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:42:33 -0700 (PDT) alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:

> > It is very easy to forge the From: line in email.  If a spammer forges
> > the From: line to have a user which is on your list then it will go
> > through.  This isn't really a problem that Mailman itself can solve.
> 
> v2.1 authenticates on envelope as well.

Does it do this by default? This sounds like a bad idea as forging the
envelope-sender is pretty trivial (and common), and there's no reason
that the envelope-sender needs to match the 'From:' header.

-- 
Will Yardley
input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >




From dariodeo at yahoo.com  Thu Oct 17 08:55:09 2002
From: dariodeo at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dario=20Duque?=)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:55:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need instruction of mailman
Message-ID: <20021017065509.32110.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>

i am dario duque, new in the list and need help about
mailman becouse i?m the manager of economiaind, this a
list of my university and don?t have the manuals and
my asesor of internet no isn?t in colombia now.


thanks for your coments.

pd.
if is possible the manual in spanish or portuguese.

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versi?n: Webcam, voz, y mucho m?s ?Gratis! 
Desc?rgalo ya desde http://messenger.yahoo.es



From admin at web-standart.net  Thu Oct 17 11:55:15 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 12:55:15 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix> <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu>  <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana>  <24011.1034791042@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <005201c275c3$51f3cd40$1c00a8c0@liliana>

> > 3.11. How do I create a newsletter (admin-post only) ?  .......  I
> Only in v2.1.
> 
> v2.0 checks either From: or envelope (configurable).  v2.1 checks both
> can use a password header to approve posts thru the moderation
> interface.
something I in 2.11 this has not found - prompt as where install, please




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 17 15:15:15 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 17 Oct 2002 09:15:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i need instruction of mailman - advice to a
	newbie
In-Reply-To: <20021017065509.32110.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021017065509.32110.qmail@web10002.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1034860515.1637.9.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If you have any specific questions, post them here.

Otherwise, you could read the FAQ:
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

The basics are covered in the FAQ.

To create a new list:
 - Login to the server running Mailman and run the command:
      ~mailman/bin/newlist
 - This will ask you for the new lists name and the email 
      address of the administrator for the new list.
 - It will then print out 4 lines (and some comments) that
      you must copy into your systems /etc/aliases file 
      (or equivelent). 
 - Generally after that you run "newaliases" so that your
      MTA (mail server) recognizes the new aliases.
 - The list admin will receive a message detailing how to
      access and modify the new list. That message will 
      contain a web link to the Web Admin interface as
      well as the new lists email address.

You should create a test list and play with that. Once you have played
with the test list for awhile and played with the various configuration
settings, you will be a Mailman guru!

Good Luck





From mail at freelock.com  Thu Oct 17 17:18:54 2002
From: mail at freelock.com (John Locke)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:18:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210161431090.58291-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
References: <5.0.2.1.2.20021016102214.00a94bb8@pop.good-stuff.co.uk>
        <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210161431090.58291-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <3220.192.168.9.12.1034867934.squirrel@foraker.freelock.com>

I had this problem initially, too, until I figured out that when you use
newlist to create your list, you need to put the domain name of the web
host, not the email host.

For example, if you're in the mailman home directory, type:

bin/newlist list at www.domain.com

instead of

bin/newlist list at domain.com.

The former sets the web host to "www.domain.com", and, if you have that in
your mm_cfg.py, sets the email host to "domain.com".

So how do you change the web host for existing lists? The setting was
available from the web page in 2.0.x, but it's no longer there in 2.1b.

I'm no Python person, but I was able to change my existing lists directly,
using the bin/fix_url.py script and bin/withlist. I created a copy of
fix_url.py (in this example, fix_domain.py), and changed the line:

    mlist.web_page_url = mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN % mm_cfg.DEFAULT_URL_HOST

to:

    mlist.web_page_url = 'http://www.domain.com/mailman'


Then ran the script with:

bin/withlist -l -r fix_domain <list_name>


Hope this helps,


-- 
John Locke
Owner, Freelock, LLC
http://www.freelock.com



Fuzzy said:
>
> Mailman 2.1b3
> FreeBSD 4.7rc
> Python 2.2.1
> Sendmail 8.12.6
>
> I looked at the Mailman Administration Guide V2,
> http://staff.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/mailman-administration-v2.html.
>
> The guide tells me that the "Base URL Mailman web interface" is an
> option of the General Options admin page, but it does not appear on our
> Admin General Options pages. Has it moved to some other page / location
> for MM2.1b3? My main page has "Host name this list prefers for email" vs
> "Host name this list prefers". I ran ~mailman/bin/config_list and
> searched the result for the value "web_page_url" variable. The result
> was only a comment and the text for the footer. Do I need to substitute
> the literal Base URL for the variable in the input to config_list to get
> mailman to put the correct, (changed to virtual domain name after list
> creation), base URL in the footer and the RFC-2369 headers? I've already
> added the code to mm_cfg.py to define the virtual domains as well as the
> real domain.
>
> <fragment from the Mailman Administration Guide V2>
>






From geoff at wsu.edu  Thu Oct 17 17:42:40 2002
From: geoff at wsu.edu (Geoff Allen)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:42:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
References: <7E2CF420-E149-11D6-9047-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DAEDA70.6020305@wsu.edu>

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 01:15  PM, Jeff Simmons wrote:
> 
>> I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot of
>> messages from us on the floor.
>>
> 
> Hotmail seems to be more broken than usual.

It's not just Mailman. It's a generic hotmail problem. We're seeing it 
from listproc.

One of our list owners got the following explanation from hotmail:

From: "Jack at CS"
Subject: RE: WSU mailing list bounces
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:20:52 -0700
To: "'Peter Harkins'"
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416

Hi Peter,

OK, here's what's happening. We accept your message and it goes on our
spoolers. Something on our SMTP servers messes up the time stamp on one
or more messages in that same que. The spooler tries to enumerate all
the messages it's got and can't, so it starts over. And it still can't.
48 hours later the spooler crashes from having an insanely long que, or
the admin finally tracks down what spooler is clogging the system. Then
it reboots and notices that all of your messages have been in the que
for 48 hours and that their TTL has expired. It then bounces the
messages back to you with a generic 5.0.0 error.

Right now we are putting together a QFE (basically a system wide policy
change) that will allow the spoolers to disregard any individual message
with a defective time stamp and then go ahead and process the rest of
the que. That's the good news. The bad news it that this QFE cannot go
into effect for at least 2 weeks.

Meanwhile, at least we know what the problem is. For you the solution is
to treat all of our 5.0.0 errors as if they were, say 4.5.1 errors. In
other words, just try to resend the messages. The odds are that you'll
get through on a second try as you'll end up on a different spooler.

Let me know if that help at all.

Jack, MSN Hotmail support


-- 
Geoff Allen, geoff at wsu.edu, <http://www.wsu.edu/~geoff/>

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in
practice, there is.  -- Author unknown




From admin at web-standart.net  Thu Oct 17 18:00:59 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 19:00:59 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix> <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu> <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana> <24011.1034791042@kanga.nu>  <005201c275c3$51f3cd40$1c00a8c0@liliana>  <9859.1034869884@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <002301c275f6$62e9f6a0$1c00a8c0@liliana>

> > something I in 2.1b3 this has not found - prompt as where install,
> > please
>
> I'm afraid I don't understand your question.  Would you mind asking it
> again some more data?
Thank For answer!!!
I do not find  in mailman 2.1b3 that- possible protect read-only list from
forgery of the headline "From:"
there is such possibility in majordomo at insertions in body letter
"Approved: password" - but in mailman this where?
Thanks You!!!Thanks You!!!Thanks You!!!




From dairiki at dairiki.org  Thu Oct 17 18:47:58 2002
From: dairiki at dairiki.org (Jeff Dairiki)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 09:47:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <3DAEDA70.6020305@wsu.edu>
References: <7E2CF420-E149-11D6-9047-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<3DAEDA70.6020305@wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <20021017094758.31e26c2d.dairiki@dairiki.org>

On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:42:40 -0700
Geoff Allen <geoff at wsu.edu> wrote:

> One of our list owners got the following explanation from hotmail:

...

> 48 hours later the spooler crashes from having an insanely long que,
...
> it reboots and notices that all of your messages have been in the que
> for 48 hours and that their TTL has expired.

A good story... but our messages are bouncing in a matter of minutes,
not 48 hours...




From jsimmons at goblin.punk.net  Thu Oct 17 19:27:00 2002
From: jsimmons at goblin.punk.net (Jeff Simmons)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 10:27:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
In-Reply-To: <20021017094758.31e26c2d.dairiki@dairiki.org>
References: <7E2CF420-E149-11D6-9047-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <3DAEDA70.6020305@wsu.edu> <20021017094758.31e26c2d.dairiki@dairiki.org>
Message-ID: <200210171727.g9HHR0q30986@goblin.punk.net>

On Thursday 17 October 2002 09:47 am, Jeff Dairiki wrote:
> On Thu, 17 Oct 2002 08:42:40 -0700
>
> Geoff Allen <geoff at wsu.edu> wrote:
> > One of our list owners got the following explanation from hotmail:
>
> ...
>
> > 48 hours later the spooler crashes from having an insanely long que,
>
> ...
>
> > it reboots and notices that all of your messages have been in the que
> > for 48 hours and that their TTL has expired.
>
> A good story... but our messages are bouncing in a matter of minutes,
> not 48 hours...

Agreed.  Some of my messages are getting those 5.0.0 replies almost 
instantaneously. 

And it's always the messages with multiple recipients.  Single recipient 
messages go through just fine.

-- 
Jeff Simmons				       jsimmons at goblin.punk.net
     Simmons Consulting - Network Engineering, Administration, Security
    "You guys, I don't hear any noise.  Are you sure you're doing it right?"
                        - My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult



From barry at python.org  Thu Oct 17 20:10:35 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:10:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is anyone gatewaying to a moderated newsgroup?
Message-ID: <15790.64795.122440.828483@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

I'd like to know if anybody else uses Mailman to gateway a mailing
list to a moderated newsgroup.  On python.org we gateway
python-announce-list to comp.lang.python.announce, but we have to use
SF patch #401270 to do so.

Under prodding by the FSF, I've thought about this issue some more,
and it's something I have to deal with before we can move
python-announce-list over to the MM2.1 code base.  I had a brainstorm
about how to make this much easier to support, but I'd like to bounce
this off of someone else for some sanity checking.

This seems like an esoteric subject, so I don't want to bother the
lists if no one else is doing this.  If there's interest, I'll follow
up with a message to just mailman-developers.

Thanks,
-Barry



From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Thu Oct 17 20:17:16 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 11:17:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 qrunner performance (backlog)
Message-ID: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

I recently upgraded from mailman 2.0.12 to 2.1b3 and am quite pleased with 
the new qrunner setup (among other things).  We have one particularly high 
volume list with very bursty postings (since the main poster is scripting 
postings).  In mailman 2.0.12 we'd often have hundreds of files stuck in 
the qfiles directory, sometimes for hours.  Now, postings go through much 
more quickly.  However, archiving still lags quite a bit, and that qrunner 
has _very_ long run times:

mailman  5476 93.5  2.7 32188 31388  ??  R     4:18PM 115:01.18 qrunner 
/home/services/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s (python)

I'm pretty sure lag in archiving is what was causing the whole thing to 
back up in 2.0.12.  So, although the backlog is now mostly isolated to 
archiving (a very good thing) I'm looking for a solution to fix that.  Not 
archiving is not an option.  Should forking more ArchRunners help with 
this, or will this just cause more contention?

My platform is FreeBSD 4.6-STABLE on a 700mhz PIII with 1GB RAM, running 
mailman 2.1b3 with Exim 4.05.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311



From admin at web-standart.net  Thu Oct 17 17:15:51 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:15:51 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Read only list 
References: <1034720642.17900.4.camel@phoenix> <002101c274ea$a1e1e320$1c00a8c0@liliana> <22359.1034786907@kanga.nu>  <02bd01c27535$3ca10fe0$1c00a8c0@liliana>  <24011.1034791042@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <061e01c275f0$15f0d220$1c00a8c0@liliana>

Heeelp-my!!! Heeeelllllppppp!!!!!
whole day ????????????, ??????????????????(((????????
> > 3.11. How do I create a newsletter (admin-post only) ?  .......  I
> > this understands, but me necessary to know as mailman checks
> > authenticity sending - after all headline of the message much easy
> > fake - in majordomo - a line in tele letter " Approved: password" -
> > but here that?
>
> Only in v2.1.
can not find in adjustment V2.1 what use password in headline of the message
for automatic approval ??????????? (((((((((((((

can not protect read-only sheet from forgery of the field "From"
>
> v2.0 checks either From: or envelope (configurable).  v2.1 checks both
> can use a password header to approve posts thru the moderation
> interface.
can not find in adjustment V2.1
=
as- did not happen to me most add this function on procmail, (((





From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Thu Oct 17 23:11:54 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 14:11:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 qrunner performance (backlog)
In-Reply-To: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
References: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <104840000.1034889114@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

Doesn't look like it helps when the backlog is associated with only one 
particular high volume list, as it seems (by looking at the /locks 
directory) that only one qrunner can operate on a given list at a time.
The other ArchRunner is basically idle.  However, it might help if the 
qrunner tasks for one particularly high volume list were impacting 
performance for other lists.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Thursday, October 17, 2002 11:17:16 -0700 "Andrew D. Clark" 
<andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> wrote:

> I recently upgraded from mailman 2.0.12 to 2.1b3 and am quite pleased
> with the new qrunner setup (among other things).  We have one
> particularly high volume list with very bursty postings (since the main
> poster is scripting postings).  In mailman 2.0.12 we'd often have
> hundreds of files stuck in the qfiles directory, sometimes for hours.
> Now, postings go through much more quickly.  However, archiving still
> lags quite a bit, and that qrunner has _very_ long run times:
>
> mailman  5476 93.5  2.7 32188 31388  ??  R     4:18PM 115:01.18 qrunner
> /home/services/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s (python)
>
> I'm pretty sure lag in archiving is what was causing the whole thing to
> back up in 2.0.12.  So, although the backlog is now mostly isolated to
> archiving (a very good thing) I'm looking for a solution to fix that.
> Not archiving is not an option.  Should forking more ArchRunners help
> with this, or will this just cause more contention?
>
> My platform is FreeBSD 4.6-STABLE on a 700mhz PIII with 1GB RAM, running
> mailman 2.1b3 with Exim 4.05.
>
> --
> Andrew Clark
> Campus Network Programmer
> Office of Information Technology
> University of California, Santa Barbara
> andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From mail at freelock.com  Fri Oct 18 01:20:08 2002
From: mail at freelock.com (John Locke)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:20:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
Message-ID: <1789.192.168.9.5.1034896808.squirrel@foraker>

Hey fuzzy, fix your MTA!

<Off-Topic Rant>
Responding via the list, because your MTA is bouncing mail from me...
because, according to your MTA, my mail's coming from a spam-friendly
domain...

I'm relaying my mail through my ISP, AT&T Broadband (attbi.com), and
you're bouncing all mail from there. Hate to think how many legitimate
messages you're bouncing... and if you're taking a stand against the
biggest cable operator for spam, I'm not sure how you can expect anybody
to help you, when they can't even email you!

</Off-Topic Rant>
Okay, sorry 'bout the flame. Back to your question:


Fuzzy said:

<snip>

> I just tried that I have a bunch of lists that are now virtually
> hosted, (they were on the main domain qhen created).
>
>                   mt - Multiple Treasures
>                mt-bj - Multiple Treasures - Beginning of Journey
>           mt-littles - Multiple Treasures Littles
>                mt-rr - MT's Reading Room
>                mt-so - Multiple Treasures SO's
>             mt-staff - Multiple Treasures Staff
>                  mt2 - Multiple Treasures Two
>
> I copied fix_url.py and changed the line as shown...
>
> #! /usr/local/bin/python
>
> """Reset a list's web_page_url attribute to
> http://www.multipletreasures.org/mailman
>
> This script is intended to be run as a bin/withlist script, i.e.
>
> % bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt <mylist>
> """
>
> import paths
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> from Mailman.i18n import _
>
>
>
> def fix_url(mlist):
>     mlist.web_page_url = 'http://www.multipletreasures.org/mailman'
> print _('Saving list')
>     mlist.Save()
>     mlist.Unlock()
>
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     print _(__doc__.replace('%', '%%'))
>
> Then I ran bin/withlist fix_url_mt.py mt
> and got the following traceback?
>
> Importing fix_url_mt...
> Running fix_url_mt.py()...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/withlist", line 271, in ?
>     main()
>   File "bin/withlist", line 246, in main
>     func = getattr(mod, callable)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'
>
> I also tried without the .py and got 'has no attriubute fix_url_mt'?
>



bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt mt

You forgot the flags...

Type

bin/withlist

for command line help...

-l locks the list while the change is being made...
-r indicates the next arg is a script to execute...

You don't need the .py.

Cheers,
John






From mail at freelock.com  Fri Oct 18 02:01:36 2002
From: mail at freelock.com (John Locke)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:01:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
Message-ID: <2076.192.168.9.5.1034899296.squirrel@foraker>

Fuzzy said:
>
<snip>
> I reran with the same script, I'd posted before.
> its still failing. I don't know python, I looked
> and line 271 is just
>
> mail()
>
>
> Script started on Thu Oct 17 19:31:09 2002
> pooh /usr/local/mailman> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt mt
> Importing fix_url_mt...
> Running fix_url_mt.fix_url_mt()...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/withlist", line 271, in ?
>     main()
>   File "bin/withlist", line 246, in main
>     func = getattr(mod, callable)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fix_url_mt'
> pooh /usr/local/mailman> exit
> Script done on Thu Oct 17 19:31:15 2002
>

Ah, I see the problem...

I don't know Python, either, but I just hacked that script when I needed
to run it. Looks like there's one other thing I changed:

def fix_url(mlist):

needs to be changed to the same name as the script:

def fix_url_mt(mlist):

This is the line before the web_page_url that you had to change.

Cheers,
John






From john at io.com  Fri Oct 18 08:36:55 2002
From: john at io.com (John Buttery)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 01:36:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <1789.192.168.9.5.1034896808.squirrel@foraker>
References: <1789.192.168.9.5.1034896808.squirrel@foraker>
Message-ID: <20021018063655.GE9929@io.com>

* John Locke <mail at freelock.com> [2002-10-17 16:20:08 -0700]:
> Hey fuzzy, fix your MTA!
> 
> <Off-Topic Rant>
> Responding via the list, because your MTA is bouncing mail from me...
> because, according to your MTA, my mail's coming from a spam-friendly
> domain...
> 
> I'm relaying my mail through my ISP, AT&T Broadband (attbi.com), and
> you're bouncing all mail from there. Hate to think how many legitimate
> messages you're bouncing... and if you're taking a stand against the
> biggest cable operator for spam, I'm not sure how you can expect anybody
> to help you, when they can't even email you!
> 
> </Off-Topic Rant>

  While you do have a good point -- that it behooves the person asking
the question to avoid putting roadblocks up that prevent the return of
answers -- you're dodging the issue that it's _your_ ISP's MTA that
needs fixing.  If your ISP has an open relay, some day you'll hit this
same sort of blacklist when it's in your interest to get the mail
through, instead of the recipient's.
  I realize the administration of AT&T's SMTP server is outside your
control (well, other than getting a new, non-spam-friendly provider),
but don't tell someone else they're the problem because your ISP is too
lazy or incompetent to fix their network.
  Apologies to you (and the rest of the list) for _this_ flame, and I
assure everyone that this will be my only post on the subject.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John Buttery
                                     (Web page temporarily unavailable)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/77a8ddc1/attachment.pgp 

From admin at web-standart.net  Fri Oct 18 09:38:22 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:38:22 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] !!!Help-My!!! Maiman 2.1b3 check_perm is OK.
Message-ID: <003401c27679$56e89a40$1c00a8c0@liliana>

appear mistakes in cron like this
check_perm is OK
==========================================
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 116, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 64, in main
    mlist.Save()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 490, in Save
    self.SaveRequestsDb()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 138, in
SaveRequestsDb
    self.__closedb()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 123, in __closedb
    fp = open(tmpfile, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/marketing-news/request.db.tmp'




From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Fri Oct 18 09:39:57 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:39:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
References: <7E2CF420-E149-11D6-9047-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com> <3DAEDA70.6020305@wsu.edu>
Message-ID: <3DAFBACD.6927FB4F@whidbey.com>

It's probably time for them to upgrade their mail servers to FreeBSD again.

Van

Geoff Allen wrote:

> Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> >
> > On Wednesday, October 16, 2002, at 01:15  PM, Jeff Simmons wrote:
> >
> >> I've talked to several other Mailman admins - Hotmail is dumping a lot of
> >> messages from us on the floor.
> >>
> >
> > Hotmail seems to be more broken than usual.
>
> It's not just Mailman. It's a generic hotmail problem. We're seeing it
> from listproc.
>
> One of our list owners got the following explanation from hotmail:
>
> From: "Jack at CS"
> Subject: RE: WSU mailing list bounces
> Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:20:52 -0700
> To: "'Peter Harkins'"
> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.3416
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> OK, here's what's happening. We accept your message and it goes on our
> spoolers. Something on our SMTP servers messes up the time stamp on one
> or more messages in that same que. The spooler tries to enumerate all
> the messages it's got and can't, so it starts over. And it still can't.
> 48 hours later the spooler crashes from having an insanely long que, or
> the admin finally tracks down what spooler is clogging the system. Then
> it reboots and notices that all of your messages have been in the que
> for 48 hours and that their TTL has expired. It then bounces the
> messages back to you with a generic 5.0.0 error.
>
> Right now we are putting together a QFE (basically a system wide policy
> change) that will allow the spoolers to disregard any individual message
> with a defective time stamp and then go ahead and process the rest of
> the que. That's the good news. The bad news it that this QFE cannot go
> into effect for at least 2 weeks.
>
> Meanwhile, at least we know what the problem is. For you the solution is
> to treat all of our 5.0.0 errors as if they were, say 4.5.1 errors. In
> other words, just try to resend the messages. The odds are that you'll
> get through on a second try as you'll end up on a different spooler.
>
> Let me know if that help at all.
>
> Jack, MSN Hotmail support
>
> --
> Geoff Allen, geoff at wsu.edu, <http://www.wsu.edu/~geoff/>
>
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in
> practice, there is.  -- Author unknown
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Fri Oct 18 14:39:01 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 13:39:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspected Virus
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIGELJCJAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

Hello people. As you can see this message is posted to a few lists, I'm
sorry for cross posting, but err... umm... it saves me having to do three
emails!! Anyway, I have a machine that's running, Red Hat 7.3 (hence the red
hat list), and Mailman (hence the mailman list) and that's all. It's also
the email server for my network. I've checked the logs, and I can't see
anything suspicious..... (not that's I'd notice!) but there are times, when
the machine slows down real bad, when I'm using the web interface, seeing as
I'm on a the same subnet, I know this is not net traffic, and I'm getting a
lot of emails telling me about failed deliveries to email address I know I'm
not sending to. I get about 6 or 7 a day, and these are the FAILED ones.
Seeing as I run a mail server with mailing lists on it, the last thing I
want is a virus sending it self out to over 3k people. What I would like to
do, is setup virus protection, I'm in the process of setting it up on each
of my clients, win98, NT, 2000, I know, I know! But it would be nice to have
my Linux box protected, and my email filtered before it's received. What
steps can I take to achieve the above? Thanks people!!
 

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent? Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2620 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/3c5f9b03/attachment.bin 

From tech at murrain.net  Fri Oct 18 16:42:21 2002
From: tech at murrain.net (Michelle Murrain)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:42:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving user passwords
Message-ID: <a05111b13b9d5cdb74561@[192.168.1.20]>

We set up a list and subscribed people to it silently. Is there a way 
to either have us retrieve the passwords for the whole batch, or for 
us to set all passwords to blank, so users can easily unsubscribe w/o 
having to go an retrieve their own passwords (it's an especially 
clueless bunch, we're learning).

Thanks!
-- 
.Michelle

--------------------------
Michelle Murrain, Technology Consulting
tech at murrain.net     http://www.murrain.net
413-253-2874 ph
413-222-6350 cell
413-825-0288 fax
AIM:pearlbear0 Y!:pearlbear9 ICQ:129250575

"A vocation is where the world's hunger & your great gladness meet." 
Frederick Buechner




From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Fri Oct 18 17:25:07 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 16:25:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Virus in ma mail ... these are the headers....
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIGEMNCJAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

This is a continuation of my viral problem.... I'm guessing that this person
was either infected by my, or infected me.... but how do I notify them??
These are the headers of one of the problem mails. Is there anything I can
do?

Return-Path: <friends at shakeit.net>
Received: from smtp.lycos.co.uk (croy-gw1.homechoice.co.uk [212.187.250.18])
	by mailbox-8.st1.spray.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7E1E3252DF
	for <badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk>; Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:01:29 +0200
(DST)
From: werfriends <friends at shakeit.net>
To: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk
Subject: Bullshit Screensaver to ur friends !!
Date: Fri,18 Oct 2002 16:03:06 PM
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
	boundary=simqlgr
Message-Id: <20021018150129.7E1E3252DF at mailbox-8.st1.spray.net>

 

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent? Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2524 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/a8244605/attachment.bin 

From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 18 18:26:09 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:26:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving user passwords
References: <a05111b13b9d5cdb74561@[192.168.1.20]>
Message-ID: <000901c276c3$11c7c400$1501a8c0@anncons2>

Check out the FAQ 1.5 entry (for running without passwords)
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.005.htp

For a script to dump out the current passwords you can modify the one in FAQ
3.7
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.005.htp

To just dump out the passwords without creating the htpassword list (used by
apache), comment out the line that begins with "htpasswd -b ... " and then
uncomment the next line that begins with "# echo $i ..."

You could write a small python program to open the database (config.db) and
blank out the passwords.  I don't believe anyone has done that yet - but it
would be quite easy to do.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michelle Murrain" <tech at murrain.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 9:42 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Retrieving user passwords


> We set up a list and subscribed people to it silently. Is there a way
> to either have us retrieve the passwords for the whole batch, or for
> us to set all passwords to blank, so users can easily unsubscribe w/o
> having to go an retrieve their own passwords (it's an especially
> clueless bunch, we're learning).
>
> Thanks!
> --
> .Michelle
>
> --------------------------
> Michelle Murrain, Technology Consulting
> tech at murrain.net     http://www.murrain.net
> 413-253-2874 ph
> 413-222-6350 cell
> 413-825-0288 fax
> AIM:pearlbear0 Y!:pearlbear9 ICQ:129250575
>
> "A vocation is where the world's hunger & your great gladness meet."
> Frederick Buechner
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From khanam at bham.ac.uk  Fri Oct 18 15:03:59 2002
From: khanam at bham.ac.uk (Arshad Khan)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 14:03:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman- not responding to subscription confirmation
Message-ID: <009401c276a6$d2f38aa0$c441bc93@jinnah>

Hi there all,

I have setup Mailman on a redhat 7.3 running sendmail and pop3 server. Sendmail is configured with the default settings from redhat, My problem is that Mailman sends welcome response but doesnot respond to subscription confirmation requests and as well as it doesnot send any mail to a particular domain.
Does anyone have any clue how I can sort out this problem. In regards to sendmail, it allows RELAY from local host by default.

Arshad
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/06eda779/attachment.html 

From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Fri Oct 18 19:17:23 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 18:17:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman- not responding to subscription confirmation
In-Reply-To: <009401c276a6$d2f38aa0$c441bc93@jinnah>
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIKENGCJAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

Have you set up your aliases? You have to do this manually.
  -----Original Message-----
  From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Arshad Khan
  Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 2:04 PM
  To: mailman-users at python.org
  Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman- not responding to subscription
confirmation


  Hi there all,

  I have setup Mailman on a redhat 7.3 running sendmail and pop3 server.
Sendmail is configured with the default settings from redhat, My problem is
that Mailman sends welcome response but doesnot respond to subscription
confirmation requests and as well as it doesnot send any mail to a
particular domain.
  Does anyone have any clue how I can sort out this problem. In regards to
sendmail, it allows RELAY from local host by default.

  Arshad

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/7e99d749/attachment.htm 

From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 18 21:06:26 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:06:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bounce detection broken?
References: <20021016005050.GF34719@ffwd.cx>
	<20021016195846.GY34719@ffwd.cx>
	<20021017000047.GI15943@ffwd.cx>
Message-ID: <15792.23474.712034.403453@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "SP" == Skye Poier <skye at ffwd.cx> writes:

    SP> Another followup.
    SP> I added the following to SimpleMatch.py

Thanks Skye, and thanks JC for forwarding this to me.  Although I'm
going to implement this slightly differently to accommodate another
MSExchange format I've got on file, your patch and example was quite
helpful.

-Baryr



From dene at datatechie.com  Sun Oct 13 05:49:34 2002
From: dene at datatechie.com (Dene Ulmschneider)
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2002 23:49:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non moderated lists are holding messages for approval
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021012234711.00b6cb10@192.168.1.112>

I have several lists running on my mailman install and it seems that lists 
that I have set to hole messages for admin approval are actually allowing 
messages through without approval. Mailman is also holding messages on 
lists that are not set for moderation and even when I have my email address 
set to be allowed to post no matter what - it still holds my messages tot 
he list.

Anyone know why this would happen and have any suggestions on how to fix this?


Thank You

Dene Ulmschneider
Data Techie Inc.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
toll free:      888.891.6385
pager:          917.654.0479
email:          dene at datatechie.com
pager mail:     denenow at datatechie.com
website:        www.datatechie.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Life is too short...-...you  should have dessert first"




From trixee at rcn.com  Sun Oct 13 06:51:00 2002
From: trixee at rcn.com (Tricia C. Sesar)
Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2002 00:51:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hardware Requirements?
Message-ID: <02101300510001.01156@Maleah>

I've been asked to size up a list server which would begin at 1000 users and 
need to scale to 32,000 users. The lists would be primarily to provide one 
way notification-type messages, rather than constant back and forth 
conversations between members.

I've never set up a list server, so I'm wondering what some general hardware 
requirements might be. 

The OS will be Linux, and theMTA would be either Sendmail or Qmail.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

--Steve



From ges at wingfoot.org  Mon Oct 14 07:28:33 2002
From: ges at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 01:28:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hey Jon, here's something for your FAQ entry for Mailman..
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021013001713.037d6488@mail.wingfoot.org>

Hey Jon--

First--thank you for pointing me to your entry in the FAQ--it was exactly 
what I was looking for!! :)

Now, I'd like to give back .. :)

I have a suggested addition for that entry: FAQ # 3.7, Setting up Web 
access using MM list passwords - for Apache...

Here's a Perl script that creates a Makefile that you can call in your 
crontab to rebuild htpasswd files for all of your lists... I figured since 
you pointed me towards this FAQ, I'd share what I did with it so far.. :)

I hope you find this useful.. it's my first perl script!

I'm sure this can be made even better... but this is what I have so far.. 
:) Suggestions/etc are always welcomed and encouraged!

Thanks again!
Glenn

Suggested addendum for FAQ Entry 3.7:

To automate this procedure, I first made a wrapper for Mailman's newlist 
that consists of:

#!/bin/sh
/etc/mailman/bin/newlist
/adm/bin/mm_make_htaccess.pl
--

So whenever you create a new mailing list, it will recreate the Makefile 
which will keep your htaccess passwords for your lists up to date. Put in 
whatever output options you usually use for newlist.

Here is a perl script that creates the Makefile to do all the work for you:

#!/usr/bin/perl
###############
##
## mm_make_htaccess.pl
##
## Create $file_dir/Makefile for Mailman use.
## version 1.0
## by ges, 10/12/2002
##
## This script is designed to take the directory names
## from ~mailman/lists and put them into a Makefile
## which, when run, will create htpasswd files for
## all your mailman lists, for use in Apache.
##
###############
##
## First we define where Mailman lists reside.
##
## Then we define what directory the Makefile
## lives in, as well as where the htpasswd files
## will live.
##
## Then we will set a variable to change for
## admins using Mailman 2.1 or 2.0
##
## Change $configext to be db for 2.0
## or pck for 2.1
##
$list_dir="/etc/mailman/lists";
$file_dir="/etc/httpd";
$configext="pck";
##
## First let's open the list directory!
## Once that's done, we'll read the filenames into @names
## for later use!
##
opendir(LISTDIR,$list_dir) || die("Cannot Open $list_dir!");
@lists = readdir(LISTDIR);
closedir(LISTDIR);
##
## Now we open the makefile
##
open(MAKEFILE,">$file_dir/Makefile") || die("Cannot Open File");
         print MAKEFILE "\n\nall: mailmanstuff\n\n";
         print MAKEFILE "mailmanstuff: ";
                 foreach $list (@lists)
                 {
                         next if ($list eq ".");
                         next if ($list eq "..");
                         print MAKEFILE "$file_dir/htpasswd.$list ";
                         next;
                 }
         $list="";
         print MAKEFILE "\n\n";
                 foreach $list (@lists)
                 {
                         next if ($list eq ".");
                         next if ($list eq "..");
                         print MAKEFILE "$file_dir/htpasswd.$list: ";
                         print MAKEFILE "$list_dir/$list/config.$configext\n";
                         print MAKEFILE "\t/home/adm/bin/mm_htaccess 
$list\n\n";
                         next;
                 }
close(MAKEFILE)
--
Change the variables at the beginning of the script to match your 
installation of Mailman (I put a symlink in /etc to make it easier for me 
to get to).

Now we create a small shell script:

#!/bin/sh
cd /etc/httpd
make
--

Change /etc/httpd to match $file_dir from the perl script. Put this shell 
script into your crontab to run every 10 minutes or so--remember--it's a 
Makefile, so it won't actually do anything if the files haven't changed!

Now, just run your wrapper when you make new lists on Mailman, and every 10 
minutes the htpasswd files will be created using Jon Carnes' mm_htaccess 
script!

--ges 10/13/02
ges at wingfoot.org


---
The original portions of this message are the copyright of the author
(c)1998-2002 Glenn E. Sieb.    ICQ UIN: 300395    IRC Nick: Rainbear
"Religion is for those who do what they are told regardless of what is right.
Spirituality is for those who do what is right regardless of what
they are told." -- unattributed





From mjr at psychtrials.com  Mon Oct 14 22:22:34 2002
From: mjr at psychtrials.com (Michael J. Rieser, MD, PSC)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 16:22:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
References: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr> <1034446918.1637.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>

>From Jon Carnes Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:21 PM

> You can set the list to be Moderated, so that all messages must be
> approved.  You can also setup a sub-list of email addresses that are
> allowed to post to the list without being moderated.

Dear Jon:

Sorry I sent this to the whole mailing list, but your email address
(jonc at nc.rr.com) did not take my send.

Thanks for the response. Does Mailman support the concept of anonymity?

For example, can the program allow users to designate a USER NAME and also
an email address that is verifiable?

The email list I am compiling is for those who are mentally ill, are
patients, or have relatives who are ill. The need for anonymity is high.

What do you suggest?

Thanks.







From mgh_57 at yahoo.com  Tue Oct 15 07:36:08 2002
From: mgh_57 at yahoo.com (Masoumeh Ghahremani)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 22:36:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I install mailman on a mailserver and access it from another web-server by using nfs?
Message-ID: <20021015053608.80128.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>


I have two RedHat Linux Server .One Mail Server ( I don't like run it's http service ) and one Webserver .
I like to install Mailman on my Mail server and access to it from my web server .
How can I do this by using NFS and share directories?

Regard.



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
faith.yahoo.com
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021014/84f83699/attachment.html 

From gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br  Tue Oct 15 14:32:43 2002
From: gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br (Gleydson Mazioli da Silva)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:32:43 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems installing Mailman 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
References: <BLEGJEDLMCLOCNNMFMBKKEAHCMAA.benas@transtrado.lt>
Message-ID: <20021015103243.60fb6300.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>

Install the python-dev package :-)

"Benas Adomavicius" <benas at transtrado.lt> em Tue, 15 Oct 2002 09:41:09 +0200 escreveu:

> Hi all,
> 
> I have tried installing Mailman 2.1b3 on Mandrake 8.1 system. ./Configure
> went fine, however upon make install i received following error:
> 
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Version.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/__init__.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/htmlformat.py ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py ...
> Listing /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/pythonlib ...
> Compiling /var/lib/mailman/Mailman/versions.py ...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/update", line 46, in ?
>     from Mailman import Utils
>   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Utils.py", line 34, in ?
>     import email.Iterators
> ImportError: No module named email.Iterators
> make: *** [update] Error 1
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how I could resolve it? It seems to be asking for module
> email.iterators, where could I find it?
> 
> 
> 
> ____________________________________________
> Transtrado
> International transport and logistics
> phone +370 5 2793333
> fax +370 5 2793025
> ICQ: 16733824
> ____________________________________________
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Gleydson Mazioli da Silva 
-------------------------
gleydson at ima.sp.gov.br
Consultor de Servidores GNU/Linux
IMA - Inform?tica de Municipios Associados
Av. Anchieta 200 - Campinas - SP
(19) 3232-9611 - R. 216



From gaborgulya at hksz.eszhok.bme.hu  Tue Oct 15 15:56:29 2002
From: gaborgulya at hksz.eszhok.bme.hu (Gabor BORGULYA)
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 15:56:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to the wishlist
Message-ID: <3DAC1E8D.5070904@hksz.eszhok.bme.hu>

Hi!

My wish (that can not be found yet in The Mailman Wishlist) is the 
following:

Possibility of requesting resending a part of the archives. E.g. the 
last two months, when subscribing.

Yours,

Gabor




From mario_soto at compuall.cl  Wed Oct 16 19:10:24 2002
From: mario_soto at compuall.cl (Mario Alberto Soto Cordones)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:10:24 -0300 (CLST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I CANT SEND EMAIL A LIST MEMBER
Message-ID: <34520.200.50.126.125.1034788224.squirrel@www.compuall.cl>

I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH MAILMAN.

I HAVE INSTALLED THE MAILMAN SOFTWARE IN MY SEVER RH 8.0.
I CREATE A LIST USUARIOS at COMPUALL.CL. BUT WHEN SEND EMAIL AT ALL LIST THE
EMAIL IS NOT RECEIVED.

PLEASE HELP ME.


Muchas Gracias
Mario Soto





From mario_soto at compuall.cl  Wed Oct 16 19:17:38 2002
From: mario_soto at compuall.cl (Mario Alberto Soto Cordones)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:17:38 -0300 (CLST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with Forbidden
Message-ID: <34641.200.50.126.125.1034788658.squirrel@www.compuall.cl>

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /pipermail/openoffice/ on this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
ErrorDocument to handle the request.






From dariodeo at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 16 22:50:09 2002
From: dariodeo at yahoo.com (=?iso-8859-1?q?Dario=20Duque?=)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 22:50:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <20021016205009.91863.qmail@web10009.mail.yahoo.com>

i a new user of mailman and i the manager of the list
economiaind of the medellin university too, but my
list have problems, for that my list no is working in
this moment.

thanks for the atention

dario duque

_______________________________________________________________
Yahoo! Messenger
Nueva versi?n: Webcam, voz, y mucho m?s ?Gratis! 
Desc?rgalo ya desde http://messenger.yahoo.es



From jared at synapseglobal.com  Thu Oct 17 01:05:35 2002
From: jared at synapseglobal.com (jared sanders)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 16:05:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending out mail to the lists...
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016160435.00a05ec0@k2.synapseglobal.com>

Basically mail isn't going through to the lists.  Not sure where to check 
for any type of error logs.  There wasn't a problem until we upgraded, not 
sure if anyone else has experienced this or not.  Any help would be 
appreciated, thanks.




From bigmoose at thekiwi.com  Thu Oct 17 16:25:52 2002
From: bigmoose at thekiwi.com (BigMoosE)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 00:25:52 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how do i remotely add users?
Message-ID: <010401c275e9$2583f570$6401a8c0@bigmoose>

can i remotely add users to the mailing, say they enter their email address in a lil textbox, press submit,a nd they receive an email, instead of the web signup that u have provided, i want something a bit simpler that first with my site

thanks
bigmoose

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/4f38d32f/attachment.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 11155 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021018/4f38d32f/attachment.obj 

From john at freelock.com  Fri Oct 18 01:19:03 2002
From: john at freelock.com (John Locke)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 16:19:03 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
Message-ID: <1787.192.168.9.5.1034896743.squirrel@foraker>

Hey fuzzy, fix your MTA!

<Off-Topic Rant>
Responding via the list, because your MTA is bouncing mail from me...
because, according to your MTA, my mail's coming from a spam-friendly
domain...

I'm relaying my mail through my ISP, AT&T Broadband (attbi.com), and
you're bouncing all mail from there. Hate to think how many legitimate
messages you're bouncing... and if you're taking a stand against the
biggest cable operator for spam, I'm not sure how you can expect anybody
to help you, when they can't even email you!

</Off-Topic Rant>
Okay, sorry 'bout the flame. Back to your question:


Fuzzy said:

<snip>

> I just tried that I have a bunch of lists that are now virtually
> hosted, (they were on the main domain qhen created).
>
>                   mt - Multiple Treasures
>                mt-bj - Multiple Treasures - Beginning of Journey
>           mt-littles - Multiple Treasures Littles
>                mt-rr - MT's Reading Room
>                mt-so - Multiple Treasures SO's
>             mt-staff - Multiple Treasures Staff
>                  mt2 - Multiple Treasures Two
>
> I copied fix_url.py and changed the line as shown...
>
> #! /usr/local/bin/python
>
> """Reset a list's web_page_url attribute to
> http://www.multipletreasures.org/mailman
>
> This script is intended to be run as a bin/withlist script, i.e.
>
> % bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt <mylist>
> """
>
> import paths
> from Mailman import mm_cfg
> from Mailman.i18n import _
>
>
>
> def fix_url(mlist):
>     mlist.web_page_url = 'http://www.multipletreasures.org/mailman'
> print _('Saving list')
>     mlist.Save()
>     mlist.Unlock()
>
>
>
> if __name__ == '__main__':
>     print _(__doc__.replace('%', '%%'))
>
> Then I ran bin/withlist fix_url_mt.py mt
> and got the following traceback?
>
> Importing fix_url_mt...
> Running fix_url_mt.py()...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/withlist", line 271, in ?
>     main()
>   File "bin/withlist", line 246, in main
>     func = getattr(mod, callable)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'py'
>
> I also tried without the .py and got 'has no attriubute fix_url_mt'?
>



bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt mt

You forgot the flags...

Type

bin/withlist

for command line help...

-l locks the list while the change is being made...
-r indicates the next arg is a script to execute...

You don't need the .py.

Cheers,
John







From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Fri Oct 18 02:01:11 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 20:01:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list?
Message-ID: <200210180001.g9I01BN11208@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

[I'm not on mailman-users, please reply/CC to my email directly.]

How do I create an identical duplicate of a list by another new name?

I'm using mailman 2.0.13.  It takes me time to create a new list, b/c for
the most part I want to configure that list identically to other lists
(esp. wrt privacy/protection features).  Specifically I want to turn on/off
certain features, etc.  I do so by creating a new list, then going through
the Web interface for the old and new list, and setting the options by hand.
It's a pain and time consuming.

I could not find a python script to duplicate one list to another.  I'd like
to copy everything: configuration, archives, and subscribership.  Actually,
I mostly care about configuration.  I don't mind if the subscribership and
archives are duplicated or not (I can handle that relatively automatically
by other means).

If someone had written a python script to "cp oldlist newlist" please let me
know.  (I couldn't find it in the faqs either.)

Thanks,
Erez.



From john at freelock.com  Fri Oct 18 02:01:13 2002
From: john at freelock.com (John Locke)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 17:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Still can't locate the place to change a virtual domain name's base URL for MM2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210171932340.91690-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
References: <1789.192.168.9.5.1034896808.squirrel@foraker>
        <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210171932340.91690-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <2076.192.168.9.5.1034899273.squirrel@foraker>

Fuzzy said:
>
<snip>
> I reran with the same script, I'd posted before.
> its still failing. I don't know python, I looked
> and line 271 is just
>
> mail()
>
>
> Script started on Thu Oct 17 19:31:09 2002
> pooh /usr/local/mailman> bin/withlist -l -r fix_url_mt mt
> Importing fix_url_mt...
> Running fix_url_mt.fix_url_mt()...
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "bin/withlist", line 271, in ?
>     main()
>   File "bin/withlist", line 246, in main
>     func = getattr(mod, callable)
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'fix_url_mt'
> pooh /usr/local/mailman> exit
> Script done on Thu Oct 17 19:31:15 2002
>

Ah, I see the problem...

I don't know Python, either, but I just hacked that script when I needed
to run it. Looks like there's one other thing I changed:

def fix_url(mlist):

needs to be changed to the same name as the script:

def fix_url_mt(mlist):

This is the line before the web_page_url that you had to change.

Cheers,
John






From us at einsnull.com  Fri Oct 18 11:17:42 2002
From: us at einsnull.com (Ulf Schleth)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 09:18:42 +1
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman restricted post
Message-ID: <3DAFD1F2.24766.194F951@localhost>

hi, i just installed mailman. seems to be a better solution than the good old majordomo. 
i also read the faq but did not find the following:

i have a list with many members, but want only 3 or 4 persons to be able to post on 
that list but also moderated to make it more complicated for spammers to send an 
email over the list.

the only way i found was to allow ALL users to send moderated. but that's no good, 
because ei HAVE to approve or disapprove lots of non-authorized emails.

greetings,
ulf
-- 
 einsnull,  Rosenthaler Str. 39,  D-10178 Berlin,  fon +49-30-44650705
 fax +49-30-44650704, http://www.einsnull.com mailto:info at einsnull.com 




From gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br  Fri Oct 18 15:05:59 2002
From: gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br (Gleydson Mazioli da Silva)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 10:05:59 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Problems with mailman 2.1b3 in a production environment
In-Reply-To: <m33cr7b9hw.fsf@zope.com>
References: <20021011100246.46f1e8ca.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>
	<m33cr7b9hw.fsf@zope.com>
Message-ID: <20021018100559.141c2876.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>

barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) em 15 Oct 2002 18:52:27 -0400 escreveu:

> 
> >>>>> "GMdS" == Gleydson Mazioli da Silva
> >>>>> <gleydson.mazioli at ima.sp.gov.br> writes:
> 
>     GMdS> After updating the mailman 2.0.9 to 2.1b3, I got the
>     GMdS> following problem:
> 
>     GMdS> After four days, all list messages were delivered
>     GMdS> correctly. But now, no one message is delivered for list
>     GMdS> members (I think normal members only). The postfix log show
>     GMdS> the following message when it receives a message
> 
>     GMdS> And the processing stop at this point. No one list
>     GMdS> configuration was changed and the /etc/init.d/mailman
>     GMdS> process (the system runs in Debian GNU/Linux) is running to
>     GMdS> deliver the messages.
> 
> Are there any stale locks in the locks directory?  Are there any
> errors in the log files?  I'msure you tried restarting the qrunner
> daemon, right?  Try "mailmanctl stop" followed by "mailmanctl start"
> (this isn't exactly the same as "mailmanctl restart".

No, the locks directory is empty but some errors appear on the error log
such as: 

*********** Start of error log **********************

Oct 11 14:31:36 2002 (25450) Uncaught runner exception: unsupported format character ',' (0x2c) at index 18
Oct 11 14:31:36 2002 (25450) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 129, in _dispose
    status = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 152, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 87, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 128, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 141, in send_i18n_digests
    digestid = _('%(realname)s Digest, Vol %(volume)d, Issue %(issue)d')
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 76, in _
    return _translation.gettext(s) % dict
ValueError: unsupported format character ',' (0x2c) at index 18

Oct 11 20:13:26 2002 (25450) Uncaught runner exception: unsupported format character ',' (0x2c) at index 18
Oct 11 20:13:26 2002 (25450) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 105, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 154, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 129, in _dispose
    status = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 152, in _dopipeline
    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 87, in process
    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 128, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 141, in send_i18n_digests
    digestid = _('%(realname)s Digest, Vol %(volume)d, Issue %(issue)d')
  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 76, in _
    return _translation.gettext(s) % dict
ValueError: unsupported format character ',' (0x2c) at index 18

******************* end of error log *************************

And part of qrunner log:

****************** start of qrunner log *********************
Oct 11 10:44:14 2002 (25430) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25435, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 11 10:44:14 2002 (25430) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25431, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 11 10:45:03 2002 (25452) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:03 2002 (25449) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:03 2002 (25447) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:04 2002 (25448) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:04 2002 (25450) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:04 2002 (25451) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Oct 11 10:45:04 2002 (25453) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25447) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25447) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25449) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25449) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25450) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25450) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25451) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25451) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25452) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25452) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25453) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25453) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25448) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25448) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:29 2002 (25446) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25453, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25451, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25449, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25452, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25448, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25450, sig: None, sts: 15, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
Oct 12 16:03:30 2002 (25446) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 25447, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1) 

***************** end ********************


>     GMdS> One thing: the message appear in
>     GMdS> lists/list-name/digest.mbox, even if it isn't delivered.
> 
> So it's getting to the list, and it has to be being processed in the
> incoming queue pipeline at least through to ToDigest.py.  That's a
> good clue.  I'm betting messages are piling up in qfiles right?

I've also checked the qfiles/shunt directory, and some messages are there :-)


Gleydson Mazioli da Silva 
-------------------------
gleydson at ima.sp.gov.br
Consultor de Servidores GNU/Linux
IMA - Inform?tica de Municipios Associados
Av. Anchieta 200 - Campinas - SP
(19) 3232-9611 - R. 216



From stephenb at uidaho.edu  Fri Oct 18 20:33:29 2002
From: stephenb at uidaho.edu (Stephen Balukoff)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 11:33:29 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <Pine.GHP.4.30.0210181112510.20366-100000@hawk.csrv.uidaho.edu>

Howdy!

Over the past couple of months, and continuing throughout the next couple of
months, the main IT organization in the university I work for is moving our
main mail-handling system from Sendmail to SunONE (iPlanet / Netscape)
Messaging Server 5.2.

After much persuasion, I managed to convince the Powers that Be that this would
be a good opportunity to move off of our decrepit and crufty majordomo mailing
list management system onto something much more sleek and modern (Mailman).
The only stipulation was that I provide some limited backward-compatibility for
majordomo commands to mailman.

After much searching, I was unable to find any detailed instructions for
getting Mailman to work under a SunONE installation, nor was I able to find any
kind of majordomo-emulator for Mailman.

So...  since I've just gone through the pain of making it all work, I thought
I'd share my findings with anyone else who has done the same, is doing the
same, or is considering doing the same.  If you have had experience with this,
please let me know if I'm shooting myself in the foot with anything I'm doing
here.  (We have yet to go production with the new mail system, and it'd be nice
to elliminate any big gotchas before we have 25,000 users on the system...)

Apologies for the perl code:  I don't have time to learn python right now with
our "extremely aggressive" deadline for this project.  Feel free to use the
instructions and scripts I've got posted at the following site however you
wish (although if you do incorporate any of this into a package or
distribution, It'd be nice to receive credit :) :

http://www.uidaho.edu/~stephenb/mailman-on-sunone/readme.html

One note:  I am not currently subscribed to the Mailman-users list, so please
CC: any replies to the e-mail to my address.

Yours simply,

Stephen


-- 
Stephen Balukoff
Unix System Analyst             stephenb at uidaho.edu
Information Technology Services	(208)885-4377
University of Idaho             http://www.uidaho.edu/~stephenb/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 18 23:37:49 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 18 Oct 2002 17:37:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman- not responding to subscription
	confirmation
In-Reply-To: <009401c276a6$d2f38aa0$c441bc93@jinnah>
References: <009401c276a6$d2f38aa0$c441bc93@jinnah>
Message-ID: <1034977073.1633.11.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

See what interfaces Sendmail is listening on, 
   netstat -na |grep tcp |grep ":25 "

If sendmail is not listening on all your interfaces (and especially
127.0.0.1) then it may not be able to respond to the SMTP delivery that
Mailman is trying to make.
 
If that is the case then you will have to edit your /etc/sendmail.cf
file and remove the line that is limiting which interfaces that Sendmail
responds to.

I suspect however, that your real problem is with smrsh.  Check your
Sendmail logs and see if they have any errors.  Look for the time that
you tried to send a message to one of your mailing lists.  

Good Luck

Jon Carnes
====
On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 09:03, Arshad Khan wrote:
> Hi there all,
> 
> I have setup Mailman on a redhat 7.3 running sendmail and pop3 server. Sendmail is configured with the default settings from redhat, My problem is that Mailman sends welcome response but doesnot respond to subscription confirmation requests and as well as it doesnot send any mail to a particular domain.
> Does anyone have any clue how I can sort out this problem. In regards to sendmail, it allows RELAY from local host by default.
> 
> Arshad





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 18 23:51:17 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 18 Oct 2002 17:51:17 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman restricted post
In-Reply-To: <3DAFD1F2.24766.194F951@localhost>
References: <3DAFD1F2.24766.194F951@localhost>
Message-ID: <1034977877.1633.15.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Your best bet here is to front-end the mailing list with a procmail
script which passes the approved folks on to the mailman list, but dumps
any mail not from those folks.

Good luck - Jon Carnes

On Fri, 2002-10-18 at 05:17, Ulf Schleth wrote:
> 
> hi, i just installed mailman. seems to be a better solution than the good old majordomo. 
> i also read the faq but did not find the following:
> 
> i have a list with many members, but want only 3 or 4 persons to be able to post on 
> that list but also moderated to make it more complicated for spammers to send an 
> email over the list.
> 
> the only way i found was to allow ALL users to send moderated. but that's no good, 
> because ei HAVE to approve or disapprove lots of non-authorized emails.
> 
> greetings,
> ulf
> -- 
>  einsnull,  Rosenthaler Str. 39,  D-10178 Berlin,  fon +49-30-44650705
>  fax +49-30-44650704, http://www.einsnull.com mailto:info at einsnull.com 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From skye at ffwd.cx  Sat Oct 19 00:27:10 2002
From: skye at ffwd.cx (Skye Poier)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 15:27:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman not sending out mail to the lists...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016160435.00a05ec0@k2.synapseglobal.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021016160435.00a05ec0@k2.synapseglobal.com>
Message-ID: <20021018222710.GS54297@ffwd.cx>

> Basically mail isn't going through to the lists.  Not sure where to check 
> for any type of error logs.  There wasn't a problem until we upgraded, not 
> sure if anyone else has experienced this or not.  Any help would be 
> appreciated, thanks.

logs/error perhaps?
are the messages sitting in qfiles/ ?

Skye




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 02:50:01 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 18 Oct 2002 20:50:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>
References: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>
	<1034446918.1637.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>
Message-ID: <1034988602.2093.7.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is not a function of Mailman.

I suggest that you setup a webform to mail to your list - an
unadvertised webform (advertised only via your list).  Make sure you
hard-code the To: in the webform so that it only mails to your list.

This way, the mail comes from your webserver and not from the
individual.  Can't get more anonymous than that in this day and age.

Note: this could be widely abused.

An alternative is to setup an anonymous re-mailer for your list.  This
is basically an alias on your mailserver that is front-ended by a script
which removes the incoming headers and then remails the body to your
mailing list (as the anonymous user on your mailserver).

Most folks don't really worry about this type of thing anymore as bogus
email accounts are so easy to come by.  Simply go to www.hotmail.com and
create an anonymous user, then mail-away!

Good Luck,

Jon Carnes
===
On Mon, 2002-10-14 at 16:22, Michael J. Rieser, MD, PSC wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the response. Does Mailman support the concept of anonymity?
> 
> For example, can the program allow users to designate a USER NAME and also
> an email address that is verifiable?
> 
> The email list I am compiling is for those who are mentally ill, are
> patients, or have relatives who are ill. The need for anonymity is high.
> 
> What do you suggest?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 02:55:07 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 18 Oct 2002 20:55:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I install mailman on a mailserver and
	access it from another web-server by using nfs?
In-Reply-To: <20021015053608.80128.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20021015053608.80128.qmail@web21205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1034988907.2089.12.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You could simply mount Mailman's home directory via NFS then do the cron
and aliases setup on the Mailserver then do the CGI setup on the
webserver.

Some folks do this, but it leaves me scratching my head.  I've never
seen the web load from even a large Mailman install amount to very much
in system resources.  And as for security, Apache is fairly bullet-proof
as long as you leave off the modules you aren't using.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 01:36, Masoumeh Ghahremani wrote:
> 
> I have two RedHat Linux Server .One Mail Server ( I don't like run it's http service ) and one Webserver .
> I like to install Mailman on my Mail server and access to it from my web server .
> How can I do this by using NFS and share directories?
> 
> Regard.
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos, & more
> faith.yahoo.com





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 03:01:56 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 18 Oct 2002 21:01:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] to the wishlist
In-Reply-To: <3DAC1E8D.5070904@hksz.eszhok.bme.hu>
References: <3DAC1E8D.5070904@hksz.eszhok.bme.hu>
Message-ID: <1034989317.2089.20.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Actually, you can download the entire achive in MBOX format. If you
like, you can edit that file and cut off the file at whatever date you
want. Then simply import it into your Email program.

I run Evolution and it is trivial to import an mbox format file into my
mailbox:
  Create a new folder (it's empty)
  Open a command line windows and copy the mbox file into the newly
created Evolution folder ../evolution/local/<newfolder>/mbox
  Open the new folder in Evolution... wait a few seconds as it indexes
it.
  Viola! The archives are now in my email.  

May all your wishes come true!

Jon Carnes
===

On Tue, 2002-10-15 at 09:56, Gabor BORGULYA wrote:
> Hi!
> 
> My wish (that can not be found yet in The Mailman Wishlist) is the 
> following:
> 
> Possibility of requesting resending a part of the archives. E.g. the 
> last two months, when subscribing.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> Gabor
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sat Oct 19 04:38:28 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 20:38:28 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>
References: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>
        <1034446918.1637.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
        <022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>
Message-ID: <32911.200.67.148.63.1034995108.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>

You can hide the list members and make the list sending messages as coming
from its address instead of member's one. Is this maybe not enough for
your needs?

REgards

>>From Jon Carnes Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:21 PM
>
>> You can set the list to be Moderated, so that all messages must be
>> approved.  You can also setup a sub-list of email addresses that are
>> allowed to post to the list without being moderated.
>
> Dear Jon:
>
> Sorry I sent this to the whole mailing list, but your email address
> (jonc at nc.rr.com) did not take my send.
>
> Thanks for the response. Does Mailman support the concept of anonymity?
>
> For example, can the program allow users to designate a USER NAME and
> also an email address that is verifiable?
>
> The email list I am compiling is for those who are mentally ill, are
> patients, or have relatives who are ill. The need for anonymity is high.
>
> What do you suggest?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sat Oct 19 05:01:21 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 21:01:21 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <32911.200.67.148.63.1034995108.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
References: <001401c27152$e0dcd120$6701a8c0@mjr>
        <1034446918.1637.62.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
        <022801c273bf$94aa9430$6701a8c0@mjr>
        <32911.200.67.148.63.1034995108.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>
Message-ID: <33046.200.67.148.63.1034996481.squirrel@catsanet.com.mx>

Oh, I was wrong, sorry!

All you can do is defining the reply-to. It seems you can not do what you
want :-(

> You can hide the list members and make the list sending messages as
> coming from its address instead of member's one. Is this maybe not
> enough for your needs?
>
> REgards
>
>>>From Jon Carnes Saturday, October 12, 2002 2:21 PM
>>
>>> You can set the list to be Moderated, so that all messages must be
>>> approved.  You can also setup a sub-list of email addresses that are
>>> allowed to post to the list without being moderated.
>>
>> Dear Jon:
>>
>> Sorry I sent this to the whole mailing list, but your email address
>> (jonc at nc.rr.com) did not take my send.
>>
>> Thanks for the response. Does Mailman support the concept of
>> anonymity?
>>
>> For example, can the program allow users to designate a USER NAME and
>> also an email address that is verifiable?
>>
>> The email list I am compiling is for those who are mentally ill, are
>> patients, or have relatives who are ill. The need for anonymity is
>> high.
>>
>> What do you suggest?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From cioloweb at tiscali.it  Sat Oct 19 12:57:56 2002
From: cioloweb at tiscali.it (Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 12:57:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to to automatically add users..?
Message-ID: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>

I'm the root of a server linux with a lot of users...
I would like to have every user (also newusers) automatically added to the mailinglist.... how can I do this?
...
thanX
 byez
CioloWeb
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021019/5549103b/attachment.htm 

From kdhendup at dit.gov.bt  Sat Oct 19 13:42:50 2002
From: kdhendup at dit.gov.bt (Karma Dhendup)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 17:42:50 +0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can the group adminstrator remove the archived messages!!
Message-ID: <000a01c27764$a748db80$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>

Hi,
can i give previllege for other mailman adm to remove the unwanted mails. (other adm will not have access to the server but he should be able to delete by loging as adm of his group.)
Very urgent please.

Karma Dhendup

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021019/11d42182/attachment.html 

From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Sat Oct 19 14:46:57 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:46:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list?
Message-ID: <200210191246.g9JCkvJ20435@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

[I've used mailman for a few years now, but I'm new to this list.]

How do I create an identical duplicate of a list by another new name?

I'm using mailman 2.0.13.  I'm generally very happy with it.  When I need to
create a new list, it takes me time to create it, b/c for the most part I
want to configure that list identically to other lists (esp. wrt
privacy/protection features).  Specifically I want to turn on/off certain
features, etc.  I do so by creating a new list, then going through the Web
interface for the old and new list, and setting the options by hand.  It's a
pain and time consuming.

I could not find a python script to duplicate one list to another.  I'd like
to copy everything: configuration, archives, and subscribership.  Actually,
I mostly care about configuration.  I don't mind if the subscribership and
archives are duplicated or not (I can handle those relatively automatically
by other means).

If someone had written a python script to "cp oldlist newlist" please let me
know.  (I couldn't find it in the faqs either.)

I also couldn't find this feature in the short list of new mailman 2.1
features.  Is something like that planned for 2.1?

Thanks,
Erez.



From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Sat Oct 19 14:50:27 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:50:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
Message-ID: <200210191250.g9JCoRW20504@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

On one mailman list I maintain, I get spams submitted to the list.  Spammers
find out about that list and I can't do much about that.  However, when such
a spam comes to me, it gets queued by mailman and I, the list-admin, have to
go and manually reject/discard those spams.  It's becoming an annoying
chore.  I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to discard/reject ALL
non-subscriber emails, and have mailman send them back a note saying they
have to subscribe first.  I didn't see such a feature off hand in Mailman.
Is there? (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)

Occasionally a non-subscriber really asks an appropriate question on my
list.  I'm willing to accept that those people will have to subscribe first;
it's the price they have to pay --- but it'll save me time.

Thanks,
Erez.



From lisaclinton78 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 19 15:31:30 2002
From: lisaclinton78 at yahoo.com (Lisa Clinton)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:31:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (un)subscribing to Mailman list via emal
Message-ID: <20021019133130.57623.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>

I am planning to set up a Mailman mailing list for my
users. My experience is that for many of these people
it is a bit easier if they can subscribe (or
unsubscribe) by simply sending an email to a special
address, instead of going to a web page (they're used
to Yahoo Groups, which has that sort of feature).

I understand that Mailman does allow people to
(un)subscribe by sending an email. What format does
Mailman require? What address should people use?

I did look around for Mailman documention and found
quite a lot, and it did mention that people can
(un)subscribe via email, but nowhere did it say
specifically how.

Thanks in advance for your help,

Lisa


__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/



From elaine at elainemiller.com  Sat Oct 19 15:41:06 2002
From: elaine at elainemiller.com (Elaine Miller)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 06:41:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (un)subscribing to Mailman list via emal
In-Reply-To: <20021019133130.57623.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3DB0FE82.26521.157FB99@localhost>

Heh. Boy, did I feel goofy when I first learned this one, after looking 
and looking...

The answer is in the full headers of any mailman message -- like this one.

There's a list of link/addesses, including one for unsubscribe. You can 
copy that into your message footers for the comfort of your subscribers.

-Elaine


On 19 Oct 2002 at 6:31, Lisa Clinton wrote:

> I am planning to set up a Mailman mailing list for my
> users. My experience is that for many of these people
> it is a bit easier if they can subscribe (or
> unsubscribe) by simply sending an email to a special
> address, instead of going to a web page (they're used
> to Yahoo Groups, which has that sort of feature).
> 
> I understand that Mailman does allow people to
> (un)subscribe by sending an email. What format does
> Mailman require? What address should people use?
> 
> I did look around for Mailman documention and found
> quite a lot, and it did mention that people can
> (un)subscribe via email, but nowhere did it say
> specifically how.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help,
> 
> Lisa
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
> http://webhosting.yahoo.com/
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 


--
Elaine Miller, leatherdyke geek
Elaine at VancouverLeather.Com
http://vancouverleather.com




From mburton at jo.birdsense.com  Sat Oct 19 17:41:16 2002
From: mburton at jo.birdsense.com (Mike Burton)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:41:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
References: <200210191250.g9JCoRW20504@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a@ALFA>

Hi Erez,

Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.  That'll do
exactly what you are asking for.

Take care,
Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Erez Zadok" <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>


> On one mailman list I maintain, I get spams submitted to the list.
Spammers
> find out about that list and I can't do much about that.  However, when
such
> a spam comes to me, it gets queued by mailman and I, the list-admin, have
to
> go and manually reject/discard those spams.  It's becoming an annoying
> chore.  I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to discard/reject
ALL
> non-subscriber emails, and have mailman send them back a note saying they
> have to subscribe first.  I didn't see such a feature off hand in Mailman.
> Is there? (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)
>
> Occasionally a non-subscriber really asks an appropriate question on my
> list.  I'm willing to accept that those people will have to subscribe
first;
> it's the price they have to pay --- but it'll save me time.
>
> Thanks,
> Erez.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>





From admin at web-standart.net  Sat Oct 19 19:28:05 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:28:05 +0200
Subject: Fw: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
Message-ID: <006d01c27794$e2f3f860$0200a8c0@silence>

I unfortunately (((
I unfortunately as have not found a way to make admin-post only list and
anybody and could not answer me - how to make as well as in majordomo in a
body of the letter " Aproved: password "  (((
=========HEELP___MYYYY!!!((((((=======
>
> > Hi Erez,
> >
> > Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.
That'll
> do
> > exactly what you are asking for.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Mike
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Erez Zadok" <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
> >
> >
> > > On one mailman list I maintain, I get spams submitted to the list.
> > Spammers
> > > find out about that list and I can't do much about that.  However,
when
> > such
> > > a spam comes to me, it gets queued by mailman and I, the list-admin,
> have
> > to
> > > go and manually reject/discard those spams.  It's becoming an annoying
> > > chore.  I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to
discard/reject
> > ALL
> > > non-subscriber emails, and have mailman send them back a note saying
> they
> > > have to subscribe first.  I didn't see such a feature off hand in
> Mailman.
> > > Is there? (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)
> > >
> > > Occasionally a non-subscriber really asks an appropriate question on
my
> > > list.  I'm willing to accept that those people will have to subscribe
> > first;
> > > it's the price they have to pay --- but it'll save me time.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Erez.
>
>




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 19:36:56 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 13:36:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to to automatically add users..?
In-Reply-To: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>
References: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>
Message-ID: <1035049016.1633.23.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

There are a lot of ways to do this...

You could dump out the passwd file via a cron job and a script that
skipped the first 29 or so users (system users) and then simply dumps
every other user to a file.  Then you would use Mailman's command line
to sync that text file with a mailing list.  

In the example below, I dump out the passwd file starting at the 30th
user and going to the end of the file.  Then I add the domain part of
the email address (mydomain.com) for each user and pump that out to a
text file called localusers.txt.  At that point I sync that file to a
local mailman list called "localusers".
 
  USERS=`cat /etc/passwd |sed -n "30,$ p"| cut -f1 -d: `
  for i in $USERS 
  do 
    echo $i at mydomain.com > ~mailman/localusers.txt
  done
  ~mailman/bin/sync_members -f ~mailman/localusers.txt localusers


Here is the help description for sync_members:

   Synchronize a mailing list's membership with a flat file.
This script is useful if you have a Mailman mailing list and a sendmail
:include: style list of addresses (also as is used in Majordomo).  For
every address in the file that does not appear in the mailing list, the
address is added.  For every address in the mailing list that does not
appear in the file, the address is removed.  Other options control what
happens when an address is added or removed.
===

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
===
On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 06:57, Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster wrote:
> I'm the root of a server linux with a lot of users...
> I would like to have every user (also newusers) automatically added to the mailinglist.... how can I do this?
> ...
> thanX
>  byez
> CioloWeb





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 19:41:48 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 13:41:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can the group adminstrator remove the archived
	messages!!
In-Reply-To: <000a01c27764$a748db80$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>
References: <000a01c27764$a748db80$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>
Message-ID: <1035049313.1633.29.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Yes. You can simply setup an unique password for a list and let your
other admins for that list know that password.  The admins can
approve/discard posts as well as modify the lists configurations

If you are running the beta version of Mailman you can setup sub-admins
that only have the ability to moderate the mail.

Good Luck 

On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 07:42, Karma Dhendup wrote:
> Hi,
> can i give previllege for other mailman adm to remove the unwanted mails. (other adm will not have access to the server but he should be able to delete by loging as adm of his group.)
> Very urgent please.
> 
> Karma Dhendup
> 





From cioloweb at tiscali.it  Sat Oct 19 19:39:43 2002
From: cioloweb at tiscali.it (Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:39:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] HELP!!! How to to automatically add users..?
References: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>
Message-ID: <001101c27796$82ec01e0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>

I'm the root of a server linux with a lot of users...
I would like to have every user (also newusers) automatically added to the mailinglist.... how can I do this?
...
thanX
 byez
CioloWeb
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021019/da7e5c7d/attachment.htm 

From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 19:48:14 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 13:48:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list?
In-Reply-To: <200210191246.g9JCkvJ20435@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
References: <200210191246.g9JCkvJ20435@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <1035049694.1633.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I've seen a python script that does this - it was posted to this list,
so it must be in the archives.  What you really need to do, is edit your
~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file and add in the defaults that you
prefer.  Then when you create a new list, the defaults will be set
properly to your standards.

Alternately, you can dump out a lists configuration by using
~mailman/bin/dumpdb

You can modify the output and then feed that back into a list (using
dumpdb again) to modify its configuration!  Dumpdb is a great tool and
you can use it to dump out and save various mailing list "syles" (like
announcement only lists, general discussion lists, or moderated private
lists, etc...)

Good Luck - Jon Carnes

On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 08:46, Erez Zadok wrote:
> [I've used mailman for a few years now, but I'm new to this list.]
> 
> How do I create an identical duplicate of a list by another new name?
> 
> I'm using mailman 2.0.13.  I'm generally very happy with it.  When I need to
> create a new list, it takes me time to create it, b/c for the most part I
> want to configure that list identically to other lists (esp. wrt
> privacy/protection features).  Specifically I want to turn on/off certain
> features, etc.  I do so by creating a new list, then going through the Web
> interface for the old and new list, and setting the options by hand.  It's a
> pain and time consuming.
> 
> I could not find a python script to duplicate one list to another.  I'd like
> to copy everything: configuration, archives, and subscribership.  Actually,
> I mostly care about configuration.  I don't mind if the subscribership and
> archives are duplicated or not (I can handle those relatively automatically
> by other means).
> 
> If someone had written a python script to "cp oldlist newlist" please let me
> know.  (I couldn't find it in the faqs either.)
> 
> I also couldn't find this feature in the short list of new mailman 2.1
> features.  Is something like that planned for 2.1?
> 
> Thanks,
> Erez.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sat Oct 19 19:55:41 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 19 Oct 2002 13:55:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
In-Reply-To: <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a@ALFA>
References: <200210191250.g9JCoRW20504@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu> 
	<001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a@ALFA>
Message-ID: <1035050142.1633.39.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I think he's already done that and simply wants Mailman to handle the
held messages by deleting them instead of holding them.

Erez, you should check out the FAQ, there are a couple of sections that
will help you out.  There is a work-around that deletes all the messages
daily instead of sending you a daily status of held messages.

You might also consider an upgrade to the Beta version.  The beta
version has this built into it!

Jon Carnes
===
On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 11:41, Mike Burton wrote:
> Hi Erez,
> 
> Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.  That'll do
> exactly what you are asking for.
> 
> Take care,
> Mike
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erez Zadok" <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
> 
> 
> > On one mailman list I maintain, I get spams submitted to the list.
> Spammers
> > find out about that list and I can't do much about that.  However, when
> such
> > a spam comes to me, it gets queued by mailman and I, the list-admin, have
> to
> > go and manually reject/discard those spams.  It's becoming an annoying
> > chore.  I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to discard/reject
> ALL
> > non-subscriber emails, and have mailman send them back a note saying they
> > have to subscribe first.  I didn't see such a feature off hand in Mailman.
> > Is there? (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)
> >
> > Occasionally a non-subscriber really asks an appropriate question on my
> > list.  I'm willing to accept that those people will have to subscribe
> first;
> > it's the price they have to pay --- but it'll save me time.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Erez.
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Sat Oct 19 20:37:11 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 14:37:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 19 Oct 2002 08:41:16 PDT."
             <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a@ALFA> 
Message-ID: <200210191837.g9JIbB205870@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

In message <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a at ALFA>, "Mike Burton" writes:
> Hi Erez,
> 
> Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.  That'll do
> exactly what you are asking for.
> 
> Take care,
> Mike

Mike, I don't think that's what I'm looking for.  I already set
member_posting_only to "Yes" but it doesn't solve my problem entirely.  If
you're not a list member, your postings are held for approval.  I don't want
non-subscriber postings held anywhere.  I want such postings discarded
immediately, after bouncing back a note to the sender saying that they must
subscribe first to post to this list.

Erez.



From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Sun Oct 20 00:13:38 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:13:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "19 Oct 2002 13:55:41 EDT."
             <1035050142.1633.39.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
Message-ID: <200210192213.g9JMDcm06662@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

In message <1035050142.1633.39.camel at Anncons.nc.rr.com>, Jon Carnes writes:
> I think he's already done that and simply wants Mailman to handle the
> held messages by deleting them instead of holding them.
> 
> Erez, you should check out the FAQ, there are a couple of sections that
> will help you out.  There is a work-around that deletes all the messages
> daily instead of sending you a daily status of held messages.

Yes, that was useful.  However, it don't inform the sender that their
message was deleted.  Worse, they might already have gotten an auto-bounce
saying that their message is held for approval, expecting someone to approve
it.

> You might also consider an upgrade to the Beta version.  The beta
> version has this built into it!

Great.  I'll give it a try (on a system on which I have privileges to
install a new/beta mailman software. :-)

> Jon Carnes

Erez.



From ezk at cs.sunysb.edu  Sun Oct 20 00:18:12 2002
From: ezk at cs.sunysb.edu (Erez Zadok)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 18:18:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "19 Oct 2002 13:48:14 EDT."
             <1035049694.1633.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
Message-ID: <200210192218.g9JMICn06693@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>

In message <1035049694.1633.35.camel at Anncons.nc.rr.com>, Jon Carnes writes:
> I've seen a python script that does this - it was posted to this list,
> so it must be in the archives.  What you really need to do, is edit your
> ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file and add in the defaults that you
> prefer.  Then when you create a new list, the defaults will be set
> properly to your standards.
> 
> Alternately, you can dump out a lists configuration by using
> ~mailman/bin/dumpdb
> 
> You can modify the output and then feed that back into a list (using
> dumpdb again) to modify its configuration!  Dumpdb is a great tool and
> you can use it to dump out and save various mailing list "syles" (like
> announcement only lists, general discussion lists, or moderated private
> lists, etc...)
> 
> Good Luck - Jon Carnes

I've used dumpdb before.  Definitely a useful tool.  But how _exactly_ do I
feed in edited dumped files ("marshaled dictionary"?) back into mailman
using dumpdb?  Can you send me the actual sequence of shell commands?

Maybe there's some python magic I'm not familiar with; but dumpdb doesn't
appear to take stdin, and seems always to want to have an argv[1] specifying
a .db file of that .db format.

It'll be great if I could use dumpdb to re-configure an entire list.

Thanks,
Erez.



From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 20 03:46:09 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:46:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list?
References: <200210191246.g9JCkvJ20435@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <15794.2785.376200.301615@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "EZ" == Erez Zadok <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu> writes:

    EZ> [I've used mailman for a few years now, but I'm new to this
    EZ> list.]

    EZ> How do I create an identical duplicate of a list by another
    EZ> new name?

    EZ> I'm using mailman 2.0.13.  I'm generally very happy with it.
    EZ> When I need to create a new list, it takes me time to create
    EZ> it, b/c for the most part I want to configure that list
    EZ> identically to other lists (esp. wrt privacy/protection
    EZ> features).  Specifically I want to turn on/off certain
    EZ> features, etc.  I do so by creating a new list, then going
    EZ> through the Web interface for the old and new list, and
    EZ> setting the options by hand.  It's a pain and time consuming.

Erez, take a look at bin/config_list.  What you can do is set up some
basic templates for values you want in common on all your lists, then
install them via bin/config_list.  Note that you do /not/ have to have
all the variables in your template that are given by config_list -o.
If you omit some from your template, they won't be changed in the
target mailing list.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 20 03:46:55 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:46:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
References: <200210191250.g9JCoRW20504@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <15794.2831.286654.543674@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "EZ" == Erez Zadok <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu> writes:

    EZ> I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to
    EZ> discard/reject ALL non-subscriber emails, and have mailman
    EZ> send them back a note saying they have to subscribe first.  I
    EZ> didn't see such a feature off hand in Mailman.  Is there? 
    EZ> (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)

Yes, this is a Mailman 2.1 feature.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 20 03:48:07 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:48:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (un)subscribing to Mailman list via emal
References: <20021019133130.57623.qmail@web13106.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <15794.2903.770595.421208@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "LC" == Lisa Clinton <lisaclinton78 at yahoo.com> writes:

    LC> I understand that Mailman does allow people to
    LC> (un)subscribe by sending an email. What format does
    LC> Mailman require? What address should people use?

In Mailman 2.1, you can send a message to mylist-leave at dom.ain and you
will get a mailback confirmation for unsubscribing.
mylist-unsubscribe is an alias for mylist-leave.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 20 03:55:35 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 qrunner performance (backlog)
References: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <15794.3352.673522.639552@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "ADC" == Andrew D Clark <andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> writes:

    ADC> I'm pretty sure lag in archiving is what was causing the
    ADC> whole thing to back up in 2.0.12.  So, although the backlog
    ADC> is now mostly isolated to archiving (a very good thing) I'm
    ADC> looking for a solution to fix that.  Not archiving is not an
    ADC> option.  Should forking more ArchRunners help with this, or
    ADC> will this just cause more contention?

Because of the list locks, it'll only help if you're archiving
messages for a bunch of lists.  But if that's the case, it'll
definitely help (at the cost of more cpu) because ArchRunner --
actually all the qrunners -- can only handle one message at a time.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Sun Oct 20 03:59:09 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 21:59:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] !!!Help-My!!! Maiman 2.1b3 check_perm is OK.
References: <003401c27679$56e89a40$1c00a8c0@liliana>
Message-ID: <15794.3565.492173.826608@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "admin" ==   <admin at web-standart.net> writes:

    | appear mistakes in cron like this
    | check_perm is OK

    | IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
    | '/usr/local/mailman/lists/marketing-news/request.db.tmp'

I just fixed MM2.1's check_perms to check the request.db.tmp file too.

-Barry




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Sun Oct 20 06:05:30 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 20 Oct 2002 00:05:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicating a mailman list?
In-Reply-To: <1035049694.1633.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
References: <200210191246.g9JCkvJ20435@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu> 
	<1035049694.1633.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1035086730.1633.10.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

D'oh!  My bad... I meant ~mailman/bin/config_list

===
  Configure a list from a text file description.

Usage: config_list [options] listname

Options:
 --inputfile filename
 -i filename
  Configure the list by assigning each module-global variable in the
  file to an attribute on the list object, then saving the list.  The
  named file is loaded with execfile() and must be legal Python code.
  Any variable that isn't already an attribute of the list object is
  ignored (a warning message is printed).  See also the -c option.

  A special variable named `mlist' is put into the globals during the
  execfile, which is bound to the actual MailList object.  This lets you
  do all manner of bizarre thing to the list object, but BEWARE!  Using
  this can severely (and possibly irreparably) damage your mailing list!

--outputfile filename
-o filename
  Instead of configuring the list, print out a list's configuration
  variables in a format suitable for input using this script.  In this
  way, you can easily capture the configuration settings for a
  particular list and imprint those settings on another list.  filename
  is the file to output the settings to.  If filename is `-', standard
  out is used.

--checkonly
-c
  With this option, the modified list is not actually changed.  Only
  useful with -i.

--verbose
-v
  Print the name of each attribute as it is being changed.  Only useful
  with -i.

--help
-h
  Print this help message and exit.

The options -o and -i are mutually exclusive.
===

Sorry about the mis-fire, I meant that you can create nice templates for
mailing list types (or styles) using:
   ~mailman/bin/config_list -o <filename> <listname>

Then edit <filename> to only modify the specific configuration option of
a mailing list that you want changed.  Any configuration option deleted
from the file will be left alone on the list that you feed this back
into. You feed these settings into a list by using:
   ~mailman/bin/config_list -i <filename> <listname>

Hope this is more helpful!

Jon Carnes

===
On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 13:48, Jon Carnes wrote:
> I've seen a python script that does this - it was posted to this list,
> so it must be in the archives.  What you really need to do, is edit your
> ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py file and add in the defaults that you
> prefer.  Then when you create a new list, the defaults will be set
> properly to your standards.
> 
> Alternately, you can dump out a lists configuration by using
> ~mailman/bin/dumpdb
> 
> You can modify the output and then feed that back into a list (using
> dumpdb again) to modify its configuration!  Dumpdb is a great tool and
> you can use it to dump out and save various mailing list "syles" (like
> announcement only lists, general discussion lists, or moderated private
> lists, etc...)
> 
> Good Luck - Jon Carnes
> 
> On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 08:46, Erez Zadok wrote:
> > [I've used mailman for a few years now, but I'm new to this list.]
> > 
> > How do I create an identical duplicate of a list by another new name?
> > 
> > I'm using mailman 2.0.13.  I'm generally very happy with it.  When I need to
> > create a new list, it takes me time to create it, b/c for the most part I
> > want to configure that list identically to other lists (esp. wrt
> > privacy/protection features).  Specifically I want to turn on/off certain
> > features, etc.  I do so by creating a new list, then going through the Web
> > interface for the old and new list, and setting the options by hand.  It's a
> > pain and time consuming.
> > 
> > I could not find a python script to duplicate one list to another.  I'd like
> > to copy everything: configuration, archives, and subscribership.  Actually,
> > I mostly care about configuration.  I don't mind if the subscribership and
> > archives are duplicated or not (I can handle those relatively automatically
> > by other means).
> > 
> > If someone had written a python script to "cp oldlist newlist" please let me
> > know.  (I couldn't find it in the faqs either.)
> > 
> > I also couldn't find this feature in the short list of new mailman 2.1
> > features.  Is something like that planned for 2.1?





From gbm at godsfellowship.com  Sun Oct 20 16:03:55 2002
From: gbm at godsfellowship.com (gbm at godsfellowship.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 14:03:55 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and Domino; can't get mail back to mailman
Message-ID: <OFB5BBE51F.9DD18BD3-ON86256C58.004CE976@mctires.com>

I have mailman on a slackware box with sendmail.    ww1.mydomain.com
The mailserver for ww1 is mx.mydomain.com. It is a WinNT box running Domino
Mail Server.
I have a mailing list: list
So the addresses are : list at mydomain.com
          list-admin at mydomain.com
          list-requests at mydomain.com
          list-owner at mydomain.com
These are set up in aliases.

When I try to send a request, etc, say to list at mydomain.com it routes to
mx.mydomain.com and is rejected because their is no user name
list at mydomain.com on the Domino Server.  If I make a user
list at mydomain.com, it stops at the Domino Server level.

How do I get the mail back to ww1.mydomain.com?

This seems like an ignorant configuration question, but I have searched
Google, the Mailman documentation, and the mailman archives without
success. Lotus research, and Lotus Domino configuration is something short
of user-friendly or intuitive.

Brent Mayes




From david at midrange.com  Sun Oct 20 17:16:11 2002
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 10:16:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: mailman and Domino; can't get mail back to mailman
References: <OFB5BBE51F.9DD18BD3-ON86256C58.004CE976@mctires.com>
Message-ID: <aouha2$se$1@main.gmane.org>

<gbm at godsfellowship.com> wrote in message
news:OFB5BBE51F.9DD18BD3-ON86256C58.004CE976 at mctires.com...
> I have mailman on a slackware box with sendmail.    ww1.mydomain.com
> The mailserver for ww1 is mx.mydomain.com. It is a WinNT box running
Domino
> Mail Server.

Seems like a pretty basic problem to me ...

You need to get the mail to your linux box.  Either send the mail to
list at ww1.mydomain.com (make sure your mailman and sendmail is suitably aware
of the domain change), or configure the domino server to redirct to the list
aliases to the same alias on the linux box.

I try to avoid Domino at all costs (I knew a guy who administered Domino
once ... he died), so I really can't help you with the specifics.

david








From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 04:31:12 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:31:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to to automatically add users..?
References: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso> <1035049016.1633.23.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> <002c01c2785f$9e9227c0$b6047550@ottobrerosso>
Message-ID: <000701c278a9$ec538d60$1501a8c0@anncons2>

You would copy the script to a file and then make the file executable:
  chmod a+x <filename>

Then you would run the file nightly as either the user root or the user
mailman.  To do this as the mailman user you would:
  su mailman
  crontab -i

This will let you edit the crontab for mailman. The following line added to
the crontab would run the file ~mailman/localuser_sync (assuming you saved
the script given in the last email into that file) at 2:05am every night:
    5 2 * * *    ~mailman/localuser_sync

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster" <cioloweb at tiscali.it>
To: "Jon Carnes" <jonc at nc.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] How to to automatically add users..?


> Excuse me... I'm not so skilled yet... I'm just at the beginning...
> Where I have to use or put or write this script???
>
> grazie > thanx
>
> by
> CioloWeb
>
> > local mailman list called "localusers".
> >
> >   USERS=`cat /etc/passwd |sed -n "30,$ p"| cut -f1 -d: `
> >   for i in $USERS
> >   do
> >     echo $i at mydomain.com > ~mailman/localusers.txt
> >   done
> >   ~mailman/bin/sync_members -f ~mailman/localusers.txt localusers
> >
>
>
>




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 04:44:07 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Sun, 20 Oct 2002 21:44:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass after upgrade
References: <20021006215134.41ec19e8.tim1@timduru.org><1033943778.2179.3.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com><20021007005011.2d2122d0.tim1@timduru.org><1033948397.2179.43.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com><20021015103615.180dcf58.tim1@timduru.org> <20021020212713.19d48987.timduru@timduru.org>
Message-ID: <000f01c278ab$ba971740$1501a8c0@anncons2>

Check the file structure of the public/private folders for the archives.
Make sure that they have the same structure and rights as the ones that are
working.  "ln -l" should be all you need to use to look at the archive
files.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "timduru" <timduru at timduru.org>
To: "Jon Carnes" <jonc at nc.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass after
upgrade


> Just an update:
>
> the archives are working fine with new lists.
> It seems it's having a problem with lists I restored after the new
> install.
>
> any idea ? :)
>




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 15:31:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 21 Oct 2002 09:31:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can the group adminstrator remove the
	archivedmessages!!
In-Reply-To: <003001c278b4$1e3bff10$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>
References: <000a01c27764$a748db80$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>
	<1035049313.1633.29.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<003001c278b4$1e3bff10$9700a8c0@dit.gov.bt>
Message-ID: <1035207101.1639.28.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

You are asking for a simple way to remove messages from the archive?

That is not a feature of Mailman. To remove archived messages, someone
with System Administration rights will have to edit the mbox file that
contains the message archive.  After that, you have to delete the old
HTML based archives and regenerate them using the ~mailman/bin/arch
command.

An alternative is to turn off the archives for a bit, then:
- import the archive mbox format into a folder in your email
- edit the folder, deleting any mail and expunging the deletes
- export the modified mbox file
- ftp the mbox file back to the server
- replace the old mbox file in the archive
- regenerate the archives using ~mailman/bin/arch

And yet another alternative is to use an external Archiver. Mailman's
archiver is very simple and lacks some of the features of more advanced
Archivers (like Monharc). You could use an external archiver that allows
you to delete old mail easily via a web form.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
===

On Sun, 2002-10-20 at 23:44, Karma Dhendup wrote:
> Hello,
> I mean removing the messages that has been approved once. I already have
> added a unique passwd for that admin in my Linux box, but that admin do not
> know Linux cmd. I want that group admin to delete the messages by loggin
> into their group and remove the messages that has been approved once and
> archived.
> The reason why I m' writting that is because I have not seen remove message
> option in the archived files.
> 
> Thanks and I once again wait for your valuable suggestions.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jon Carnes" <jonc at nc.rr.com>
> To: "Karma Dhendup" <kdhendup at dit.gov.bt>
> Cc: <mailman-users at python.org>
> Sent: Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:41 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can the group adminstrator remove the
> archivedmessages!!
> 
> 
> > Yes. You can simply setup an unique password for a list and let your
> > other admins for that list know that password.  The admins can
> > approve/discard posts as well as modify the lists configurations
> >
> > If you are running the beta version of Mailman you can setup sub-admins
> > that only have the ability to moderate the mail.
> >
> > Good Luck
> >
> > On Sat, 2002-10-19 at 07:42, Karma Dhendup wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > can i give previllege for other mailman adm to remove the unwanted
> mails. (other adm will not have access to the server but he should be able
> to delete by loging as adm of his group.)
> > > Very urgent please.
> > >
> > > Karma Dhendup
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 





From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Mon Oct 21 15:34:33 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 09:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hotmail dumping Mailman messages?
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210210932080.30748-100000@seyyav.pair.com>

I've also been experiencing this problem as well.  The story I got was
that their mail server/queue or whatever is overloaded and giving a 500
error, permanent error that address is not available, rather than a 450
error, temporary error that mailbox in unavailable.

Sean




From jchum at aismedia.com  Mon Oct 21 16:49:24 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:49:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why is Mailman not sending?
Message-ID: <02b801c27911$0c4b94c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Mailman was setup on the server by another admin and I know it works. I su
to mailman and create a new list, add the changes to the aliases file, ran
newaliases so it would take effect, change virtusertable so it's consistent
with the changes in the aliases, then make the virtusertable.

I've sent a test message to the list and nothing came out of it. I am not
sure it suppose to take 10 minutes just incase it's queing things up. I've
open the qfiles folder under the Mailman directory and my messages are
located there. I am not sure if that's normal, but I think Mailman has
accepted the email, but just not sending it out.

Is there something I'm missing here? What else could I look into?


Regards,
Jonathan Chum
Systems Developer

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
"We Build eBusinesses"
115 Perimeter Center Terrace
Suite 540
Atlanta, GA 30346
Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 17:34:30 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 21 Oct 2002 11:34:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why is Mailman not sending?
In-Reply-To: <02b801c27911$0c4b94c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
References: <02b801c27911$0c4b94c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <1035214470.9296.31.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

If the messages are in the qfiles directory then Mailman should be
trying to deliver them.  If they don't get delivered then look in the
mailman log files and also check out your MTA's (I'm guessing you use
Sendmail) log files to see what the errors are.

Good Luck

On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 10:49, Jonathan Chum wrote:
> Mailman was setup on the server by another admin and I know it works. I su
> to mailman and create a new list, add the changes to the aliases file, ran
> newaliases so it would take effect, change virtusertable so it's consistent
> with the changes in the aliases, then make the virtusertable.
> 
> I've sent a test message to the list and nothing came out of it. I am not
> sure it suppose to take 10 minutes just incase it's queing things up. I've
> open the qfiles folder under the Mailman directory and my messages are
> located there. I am not sure if that's normal, but I think Mailman has
> accepted the email, but just not sending it out.
> 
> Is there something I'm missing here? What else could I look into?
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Jonathan Chum
> Systems Developer
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A I S   M e d i a ,  I n c .
> "We Build eBusinesses"
> 115 Perimeter Center Terrace
> Suite 540
> Atlanta, GA 30346
> Tel: 800.784.0919, Ext 502 / Fax: 678.382.2471
> http://www.aismedia.com / jchum at aismedia.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net  Mon Oct 21 18:20:09 2002
From: bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net (Matthew Davis)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:20:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why is Mailman not sending?
In-Reply-To: <02b801c27911$0c4b94c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>; from jchum@aismedia.com on Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 10:49:24AM -0400
References: <02b801c27911$0c4b94c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>
Message-ID: <20021021122009.A32494@dogpound.vnet.net>

Did you install the crontab for the mailman user using the crontab.in file?

* Jonathan Chum (jchum at aismedia.com) wrote: 
> I've sent a test message to the list and nothing came out of it. I am not
> sure it suppose to take 10 minutes just incase it's queing things up. I've
> open the qfiles folder under the Mailman directory and my messages are
> located there. I am not sure if that's normal, but I think Mailman has
> accepted the email, but just not sending it out.
> 

Matthew Davis
http://dogpound.vnet.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
What a long, strange trip it's been!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Monday, October 21, 2002 / 12:18PM



From tim1 at timduru.org  Mon Oct 21 19:51:26 2002
From: tim1 at timduru.org (timduru)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:51:26 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass after upgrade
In-Reply-To: <000f01c278ab$ba971740$1501a8c0@anncons2>
References: <20021006215134.41ec19e8.tim1@timduru.org>
	<1033943778.2179.3.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
	<20021007005011.2d2122d0.tim1@timduru.org>
	<1033948397.2179.43.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
	<20021015103615.180dcf58.tim1@timduru.org>
	<20021020212713.19d48987.timduru@timduru.org>
	<000f01c278ab$ba971740$1501a8c0@anncons2>
Message-ID: <20021021195126.107b1ea3.tim1@timduru.org>

ok I've found the problem. 

It was because the old list was configured with a url starting by
/list/
while the new install is /mailman/ 

Now in the cookie there is a field used to determine under what path
it has to be used. 

It seems it was working with konqueror because it doesn't check that
field. Seems like a bug to me ;) 

Well anyway it's working fine now , thanks :) 


> Check the file structure of the public/private folders for the
> archives. Make sure that they have the same structure and rights as
> the ones that are working.  "ln -l" should be all you need to use to
> look at the archive files.
> 
> Good Luck - Jon Carnes
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "timduru" <timduru at timduru.org>
> To: "Jon Carnes" <jonc at nc.rr.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 20, 2002 2:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archives page keeps asking for login/pass
> after upgrade
> 
> 
> > Just an update:
> >
> > the archives are working fine with new lists.
> > It seems it's having a problem with lists I restored after the new
> > install.
> >
> > any idea ? :)
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


-- 
Timduru
-------------------------------------------------------
?????????????????? .
????????????????? / V\?timduru at timduru.org
??????????????? / `? /?Timduru the Meerkat on TLKMUCK
?????????????? <<?? |???????????("`-/")_.-'"``-._
?????????????? /??? |??????????? . . `) -._??? )-;-,_`)
???????????? /????? |?????????? (v_,)'? _? )`-.\? ``-'
?????????? /??????? |?????????? _;- _,-_/ / ((,'
???????? /??? \? \ /????????? ((,.-'? ((,/
??????? (????? ) | |???? ICQ number: 2747084
?? _____|?? _/_? | |?Timduru's Lion king & Balto Page:
? <______\______)\__) http://www.timduru.org/
http://www.baltofans.org/   http://fursuit.timduru.org
---------------------------------------------------------



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 20:48:15 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 21 Oct 2002 14:48:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: after other tests
In-Reply-To: <004301c2792f$3fee4980$649cd33e@ottobrerosso>
References: <002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso>
	<1035049016.1633.23.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<004301c2792f$3fee4980$649cd33e@ottobrerosso>
Message-ID: <1035226095.10021.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

D'oh!  the script should read:
    echo $i at mydomain.com >> ~mailman/localusers.txt

Then be sure to remove the file after you do the mailman sync!

Take care - Jon Carnes
===
On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 14:25, Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster wrote:
> >   USERS=`cat /etc/passwd |sed -n "30,$ p"| cut -f1 -d: `
> 
> I put the result of this command in  a file and all is good
> the problems I think start here...
> ...
> >   for i in $USERS
> >   do
> >     echo $i at mydomain.com > ~mailman/localusers.txt
> >   done
> 
> everytime he do it only for the last...
> 
> example
> user are:
> a
> b
> c
> d
> 
> he write only
> 
> d at mydomain.com
> 
> ps: I found out (studying the first command you gave me) that I can have the
> same result with :
> 
> USERS=`ls /home/ | cat `
> 
> what you think about it?
> 
> ciao
> byez
> CioloWeb
> 
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 21 22:40:14 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 21 Oct 2002 16:40:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: yahooo-!!!!!
In-Reply-To: <000501c27939$15861240$649cd33e@ottobrerosso>
References: 
	<002801c2775e$621e9dc0$e86c7450@ottobrerosso><1035049016.1633.23.camel@Annco
	 ns.nc.rr.com> <004301c2792f$3fee4980$649cd33e@ottobrerosso>
	<1035226095.10021.2.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<000501c27939$15861240$649cd33e@ottobrerosso>
Message-ID: <1035232815.10021.39.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 15:35, Ciolo_-^DusT^-_WebMaster wrote:
> PERFECT!!!!
> 
> the last question... if I add manually other users not in my domain they
> will be deleted after the sync??

Yes, but you could easily modify the script to handle external users...

  # ext_localusers contains email addresses from users not
  #   in your local password file
  cp ~mailman/ext_localusers.txt ~mailman/localusers.txt
  USERS=`cat /etc/passwd |sed -n "30,$ p"| cut -f1 -d: `
  for i in $USERS 
  do 
    echo $i at mydomain.com >> ~mailman/localusers.txt
  done
  ~mailman/bin/sync_members -f ~mailman/localusers.txt localusers


> 
> ciao e grazie!
> bye and Thanx!
> byez
> CioloWeb
> 






From barry at python.org  Mon Oct 21 23:48:06 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 17:48:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Problems with mailman 2.1b3 in a production environment
References: <20021011100246.46f1e8ca.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>
	<m33cr7b9hw.fsf@zope.com>
	<20021018100559.141c2876.gleydson@ima.sp.gov.br>
Message-ID: <15796.30230.729631.734419@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

    |    digestid = _('%(realname)s Digest, Vol %(volume)d, Issue %(issue)d')
    |  File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/i18n.py", line 76, in _
    |    return _translation.gettext(s) % dict
    | ValueError: unsupported format character ',' (0x2c) at index 18

This, and my knowing you're using the pt_BR translation led me to the
clue.  The mailman.po file has a broken translation for this source
string.  The `s' format character was left off the %(realname)s
substitution variable.

I'll fix that, but don't forget to use bin/transcheck to check your
translations (I know we're still trying to work out cvs access for
you!).

-Barry



From e_lenihan at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 22 01:05:43 2002
From: e_lenihan at hotmail.com (ellen lenihan)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 16:05:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Carriage Returns in Archives
Message-ID: <F136HndvJoXEAOPS8bA0000b7cd@hotmail.com>

Hi

I'm a new list manager and we're having a problem with our archives.
The way they are formatted they don't have carriage returns and keep
running on to the right. We searched and searched with out any luck. Any 
ideas on how we could format the archives so they read nicely and don't run 
on?

Thanks,
Ellen

_________________________________________________________________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp




From VKN at afrigeneas.net  Tue Oct 22 03:49:42 2002
From: VKN at afrigeneas.net (VKNelson)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:49:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman and Free Mail
Message-ID: <20021022014942.E8CFE3F47@sitemail.everyone.net>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021021/79396360/attachment.asc 

From webperson at now.org  Tue Oct 22 04:57:45 2002
From: webperson at now.org (NOW Website Coordinator)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:57:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preferred sendmail replacement?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org>

We need a sendmail replacement (for Solaris) that is fast.  Someone had 
tried to get Qmail working with Mailman, but did not have success.

What sendmail replacement are you using for your Unix (preferably Solaris) 
machine?  Is it reliable?  Fast (how big are your lists)?  Not too hard to 
configure and use?

Thanks in advance. 




From jon at csh.rit.edu  Tue Oct 22 05:11:26 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 23:11:26 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preferred sendmail replacement?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org>
Message-ID: <20021022031126.GA2051@csh.rit.edu>

On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:57:45PM -0700, NOW Website Coordinator wrote:

This has the potential to be come religious, but ...

> What sendmail replacement are you using for your Unix (preferably Solaris) 
> machine?  Is it reliable?  Fast (how big are your lists)?  Not too hard to 
> configure and use?
 
I've had excellent luck with Postfix.  Configuration is always a
breeze, and performance is quite good.  In terms of Mailman, the
integration is quite good (in the Mailman 2.1 branch).

I've also heard good things about exim, but I've never run it myself.

I used to run qmail (mainly for ezmlm), but I got tired of the
"non-standard" way it handled things (e.g. .qmail files), switched to
Postfix, and never looked back.

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From william+mm at hq.newdream.net  Tue Oct 22 05:55:44 2002
From: william+mm at hq.newdream.net (Will Yardley)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 20:55:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: preferred sendmail replacement?
In-Reply-To: <20021022031126.GA2051@csh.rit.edu>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org> <20021022031126.GA2051@csh.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <20021022035544.GB24464@hq.newdream.net>

Jon Parise wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:57:45PM -0700, NOW Website Coordinator wrote:
 
> This has the potential to be come religious, but ...

Indeed!
 
>> What sendmail replacement are you using for your Unix (preferably
>> Solaris) machine?  Is it reliable?  Fast (how big are your lists)?
>> Not too hard to configure and use?
  
> I've had excellent luck with Postfix.  Configuration is always a
> breeze, and performance is quite good.  In terms of Mailman, the
> integration is quite good (in the Mailman 2.1 branch).
> 
> I've also heard good things about exim, but I've never run it myself.
> 
> I used to run qmail (mainly for ezmlm), but I got tired of the
> "non-standard" way it handled things (e.g. .qmail files), switched to
> Postfix, and never looked back.

I'll second the recommendation for Postfix (and I think that Mailman
development is done on Postfix as well).

I use Postfix on small boxes with one user (ie my own), as well as
machines with upwards of 25k users, and on FreeBSD, Linux, and Solaris
8. I'm very happy with its performance, ease of use, flexibility and
ease of installation / Sendmail compatibility. It also has a great (and
helpful) user community.

I'm not a big fan of qmail, although I've used it in the past. See
http://lifewithoutqmail.org/.

Exim would also be worth looking into.

-- 
Will Yardley
input: william < @ hq . newdream . net . >




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 22 06:02:02 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 22 Oct 2002 00:02:02 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preferred sendmail replacement? Postfix!
In-Reply-To: <20021022031126.GA2051@csh.rit.edu>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org> 
	<20021022031126.GA2051@csh.rit.edu>
Message-ID: <1035259323.1663.8.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I don't think this will become too much of a religious war... Postfix is
easily one of the best replacements for sendmail.  A lot of popular
Linux distributions have moved over to Postfix as their MTA so look for
it to outpace Sendmail rapidly the next few years.

Of the drop-in replacements for Sendmail, Postfix is also one of the
easiest to configure and to install.  Postfix also has superior support
for virtual domains, etc, etc, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Others in the also ran column include: exim and qmail.  Though you have
had a bad experience with qmail.

Good Luck with Postfix!

Jon Carnes (avid Sendmail fan, but Postfix realist) 
===
On Mon, 2002-10-21 at 23:11, Jon Parise wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 21, 2002 at 07:57:45PM -0700, NOW Website Coordinator wrote:
> 
> This has the potential to be come religious, but ...
> 
> > What sendmail replacement are you using for your Unix (preferably Solaris) 
> > machine?  Is it reliable?  Fast (how big are your lists)?  Not too hard to 
> > configure and use?
>  
> I've had excellent luck with Postfix.  Configuration is always a
> breeze, and performance is quite good.  In terms of Mailman, the
> integration is quite good (in the Mailman 2.1 branch).
> 
> I've also heard good things about exim, but I've never run it myself.
> 
> I used to run qmail (mainly for ezmlm), but I got tired of the
> "non-standard" way it handled things (e.g. .qmail files), switched to
> Postfix, and never looked back.
> 
> -- 
> Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From ascoli at ascu.unian.it  Tue Oct 22 16:31:37 2002
From: ascoli at ascu.unian.it (Lindo Nepi)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:31:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem using mailman +sendmail on debian 3.0
Message-ID: <200210221431.g9MEVbMn006335@ascu.unian.it>

hi all
i'm using mailman 2.0.11 on a debian 3.0 with sendmail

(sendmail 8.12.3) 

when i try to post on my mailinglist , or i mail to a "-request" address (for example if i must subscribe myself on a mailinglist) i don't receive any response from mailman...any mail..any error in logs...any error in sendmail 

in my /var/log/mail.log i have found
Oct 18 18:36:24 2002 (21076) lugancona-list: pending and747 at libero.it  ppp-219-183.27-151.libero.it


Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sm-mta[4827]: g9MDZTOM004827: from=<ascoli at ascu.unian.it>,
size=368, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200210221335.g9MDZTpU004826 at ascu.unian.it>,
proto=ESMTP, daemon=MSA, relay=ascoli at localhost [127.0.0.1]
Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sendmail[4826]: g9MDZTpU004826: to=lugancona3-list-request at ascu.unian.it, ctladdr=ascoli (614/200), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=relay, pri=30062, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (g9MDZTOM004827 Message accepted for delivery)
Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sm-mta[4829]: g9MDZTOM004827: to="|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd lugancona3-list", ctladdr=<lugancona3-list-request at ascu.unian.it>
(8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30683, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent




From brianr at bjsystems.co.uk  Tue Oct 22 18:04:49 2002
From: brianr at bjsystems.co.uk (Brian Read)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:04:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base URL for Mailman web interface
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021022170343.0568ce18@server01>

Hi

Did anyone discover where we can set the "Base URL for Mailman web 
interface", as it seems to have dropped out of the web management interface?

Cheers

Brian

Brian J Read
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk
www.theonlineorganiser.com
www.thepersonalknowledgebase.com
Mitel SMEserver Contributions and Howtos: 
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk/abandon/links.html
+44 1695 723723





From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Tue Oct 22 18:35:02 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:35:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Base URL for Mailman web interface
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021022170343.0568ce18@server01>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021022172539.00a809c8@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 17:04 22/10/2002, Brian Read wrote:
>Hi
>
>Did anyone discover where we can set the "Base URL for Mailman web 
>interface", as it seems to have dropped out of the web management interface?
>
>Cheers
>
>Brian

There is a script $prefix/bin/fix_url.py in the MM 2.1b3 install for 
re-setting a list's web_page_url parameter.

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg04704.html says:

<quote>
A new script bin/fix_url.py can be used with bin/withlist to change a 
list's web_page_url configuration variable (since it is no longer 
modifiable through the web).
</quote>




From spam at baya.net  Tue Oct 22 19:16:08 2002
From: spam at baya.net (Matthew Baya)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:16:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RE: preferred sendmail replacement?
In-Reply-To: <20021022160005.7706.29187.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <B9DB0018.5147B%spam@baya.net>

Just a quick note, I've used mailman with qmail without a problem, and just
moved to courier (http://www.courier-mta.org/) and it's working fine there
too.

-Matt
Svaha.com

--------------
Matthew J. Baya         matt at baya.net
85 Guptil Farm Way, Ellsworth, ME 04605-4109
http://matt.baya.net/          H: (207) 667-4892
Svaha.Com - web hosting & services. http://svaha.com/




From claw at kanga.nu  Tue Oct 22 19:36:41 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:36:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] preferred sendmail replacement? 
In-Reply-To: Message from NOW Website Coordinator <webperson@now.org> 
   of "Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:57:45 PDT." <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org> 
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021021195552.00dd13a0@now.org> 
Message-ID: <32173.1035308201@kanga.nu>

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 19:57:45 -0700 
NOW Website Coordinator <webperson at now.org> wrote:

> We need a sendmail replacement (for Solaris) that is fast.  Someone
> had tried to get Qmail working with Mailman, but did not have success.

> What sendmail replacement are you using for your Unix (preferably
> Solaris) machine?  Is it reliable?  Fast (how big are your lists)?
> Not too hard to configure and use?

Please see the FAQ:

  http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py 

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From acozer at fti.com.br  Tue Oct 22 20:02:45 2002
From: acozer at fti.com.br (Alberto Cozer)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 16:02:45 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems when installing Mailman with QMAIL
Message-ID: <OF50CC634F.DF479BE9-ON83256C5A.00617243-03256C5A.0063590B@fti.com.br>

Hello folks,

I have recently installed Mailman and Python on a system where QMail was 
already working. I have followed all the 
steps described on the installation documentation, but I am facing some 
problems not covered by those docs.

First of all, after the creation of my list (using the "newlist" command, 
under behalf of user mailman), if i choose an 
e-mail from outside my QMail managed domains for the list admin e-mail, 
the list admin receives no mail telling that 
the list has already been set up. But, if the list administrator e-mail is 
a local e-mail address, the message gets delivered. 

My first guess is that there is something to do with relay configuration, 
but I am not sure what kind of relay access I 
have to set on QMail. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? 

The second problem is related to the list subscribers. No subscribers are 
being able to receive the messages
sent to the list. I guess this problem has something to do with the first 
one, although I am not sure. Looking at the Mailman
post logs I found errors but I haven't found the reason for the error 
anywhere yet, even in my syslog. Does anyone have a guess
on that also? 

Thanks in advance for your help. 

Regards,

Alberto Cozer
Security Outsource Manager, Future Technologies Digital Security
IBM Certified AIX System Specialist
Checkpoint Certified Security Engineer, CCSE
acozer at fti.com.br
http://www.fti.com.br
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021022/5d336ec1/attachment.htm 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 5925 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021022/5d336ec1/attachment.bin 

From eyoung at toyota.com  Tue Oct 22 20:07:40 2002
From: eyoung at toyota.com (Edmund Young III)
Date: 22 Oct 2002 11:07:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator question - how to turn if off
Message-ID: <1035310062.5101.78.camel@matrix>

I recently started having to approve all messages to my list, receive
the following message - 

The reason it is being held:
Message has implicit destination

Is there a way to turn this off?





From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Tue Oct 22 20:53:28 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 qrunner performance (backlog)
In-Reply-To: <15794.3352.673522.639552@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
 <15794.3352.673522.639552@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <45860000.1035312808@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

To quote from bin/qrunner:

"Each named runner class is run in round-robin fashion.  In other words, the
first named runner is run to consume all the files currently in its
directory.  When that qrunner is done, the next one is run to consume all 
the
files in /its/ directory, and so on.  The number of total iterations can be
given on the command line."

So, if I understand this correctly, if ArchRunner is the first named 
qrunner (the default), it will have to complete its run before an other 
qrunner will be able to process their queues.  Is this correct?  It seems a 
little backwards, since I'd guess that archives are usually the lowest 
priority queue.  Can this ordering be changed by altering the QRUNNERS = [] 
array?
So, the qrunners _aren't_ really executing in parallel?

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Saturday, October 19, 2002 21:55:35 -0400 "Barry A. Warsaw" 
<barry at python.org> wrote:

>
>>>>>> "ADC" == Andrew D Clark <andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> writes:
>
>     ADC> I'm pretty sure lag in archiving is what was causing the
>     ADC> whole thing to back up in 2.0.12.  So, although the backlog
>     ADC> is now mostly isolated to archiving (a very good thing) I'm
>     ADC> looking for a solution to fix that.  Not archiving is not an
>     ADC> option.  Should forking more ArchRunners help with this, or
>     ADC> will this just cause more contention?
>
> Because of the list locks, it'll only help if you're archiving
> messages for a bunch of lists.  But if that's the case, it'll
> definitely help (at the cost of more cpu) because ArchRunner --
> actually all the qrunners -- can only handle one message at a time.
>
> -Barry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 22 21:47:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 22 Oct 2002 15:47:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem using mailman +sendmail on debian 3.0
In-Reply-To: <200210221431.g9MEVbMn006335@ascu.unian.it>
References: <200210221431.g9MEVbMn006335@ascu.unian.it>
Message-ID: <1035316072.1633.29.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Check your mailman logs as well.  It could be that your mailserver is
not listening on localhost (telnet 127.0.0.1 25), or that your
mailserver does not allow relays from localhost.

Your Mailman logs will give more detail as to what is happening.

If the logs are blank, make sure that you have installed the cronjobs
necessary to run Mailman and that cron is running.

As a last resort, you can look at the cron jobs and run by hand the
qrunner job to see what output/errors you get.

Good Luck!

On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 10:31, Lindo Nepi wrote:
> hi all
> i'm using mailman 2.0.11 on a debian 3.0 with sendmail
> 
> (sendmail 8.12.3) 
> 
> when i try to post on my mailinglist , or i mail to a "-request" address (for example if i must subscribe myself on a mailinglist) i don't receive any response from mailman...any mail..any error in logs...any error in sendmail 
> 
> in my /var/log/mail.log i have found
> Oct 18 18:36:24 2002 (21076) lugancona-list: pending and747 at libero.it  ppp-219-183.27-151.libero.it
> 
> 
> Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sm-mta[4827]: g9MDZTOM004827: from=<ascoli at ascu.unian.it>,
> size=368, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<200210221335.g9MDZTpU004826 at ascu.unian.it>,
> proto=ESMTP, daemon=MSA, relay=ascoli at localhost [127.0.0.1]
> Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sendmail[4826]: g9MDZTpU004826: to=lugancona3-list-request at ascu.unian.it, ctladdr=ascoli (614/200), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=relay, pri=30062, relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (g9MDZTOM004827 Message accepted for delivery)
> Oct 22 15:35:30 ascu sm-mta[4829]: g9MDZTOM004827: to="|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd lugancona3-list", ctladdr=<lugancona3-list-request at ascu.unian.it>
> (8/0), delay=00:00:00, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=30683, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 22 21:52:52 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 22 Oct 2002 15:52:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems when installing Mailman with QMAIL
In-Reply-To: 
	<OF50CC634F.DF479BE9-ON83256C5A.00617243-03256C5A.0063590B@fti.com.br>
References: 
	<OF50CC634F.DF479BE9-ON83256C5A.00617243-03256C5A.0063590B@fti.com.br>
Message-ID: <1035316372.1633.33.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I'm inclined to agree with your suspicion that you are having routing
problems.  You might want to make sure that you are allowing localhost
(127.0.0.1) to relay. 

Best of luck - Jon Carnes

 On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 14:02, Alberto Cozer wrote:
> Hello folks,
> 
> I have recently installed Mailman and Python on a system where QMail was 
> already working. I have followed all the 
> steps described on the installation documentation, but I am facing some 
> problems not covered by those docs.
> 
> First of all, after the creation of my list (using the "newlist" command, 
> under behalf of user mailman), if i choose an 
> e-mail from outside my QMail managed domains for the list admin e-mail, 
> the list admin receives no mail telling that 
> the list has already been set up. But, if the list administrator e-mail is 
> a local e-mail address, the message gets delivered. 
> 
> My first guess is that there is something to do with relay configuration, 
> but I am not sure what kind of relay access I 
> have to set on QMail. Has anyone here ever seen this problem? 
> 
> The second problem is related to the list subscribers. No subscribers are 
> being able to receive the messages
> sent to the list. I guess this problem has something to do with the first 
> one, although I am not sure. Looking at the Mailman
> post logs I found errors but I haven't found the reason for the error 
> anywhere yet, even in my syslog. Does anyone have a guess
> on that also? 
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help. 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Alberto Cozer
> Security Outsource Manager, Future Technologies Digital Security
> IBM Certified AIX System Specialist
> Checkpoint Certified Security Engineer, CCSE
> acozer at fti.com.br
> http://www.fti.com.br





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 22 21:57:09 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 22 Oct 2002 15:57:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator question - how to turn if off
In-Reply-To: <1035310062.5101.78.camel@matrix>
References: <1035310062.5101.78.camel@matrix>
Message-ID: <1035316629.1633.38.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

I'm guessing that you have assigned an alias that redirects to your list
(or someone else has).  Take a look at the header info next time and see
what the "TO: " address really is.  It's not the same as the actual
email address of the list.

You can use the web admin pages to add that name as an acceptable
alternative to your list address (acceptable as long as it appears in
the TO: or CC: fields.

If folks are sending notes and BCC:-ing your list, then you'll have to
further tweak the settings on your lists configuration, and make the
choice between allowing spam onto your lists or not having to approve
the messages.

Good Luck

On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 14:07, Edmund Young III wrote:
> I recently started having to approve all messages to my list, receive
> the following message - 
> 
> The reason it is being held:
> Message has implicit destination
> 
> Is there a way to turn this off?
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From RFinkelm at regis.edu  Wed Oct 23 01:29:37 2002
From: RFinkelm at regis.edu (Finkelmeier, Robert)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:29:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Documentation
Message-ID: <8EBC4161BB42D511977F00508B6D7C360306FB2B@its39.regis.edu>

Hello:
 
I'm a new user to Mailman. Our provider recently installed it to replace
another email listserv management tool. As a new user I need to learn the
basics of this web based program. Therefore, where do I find introductory
administrator documentation (I prefer a printable source document) to assist
me in setting up our lists? For example:

1.	Explanation of the configuration categories.
2.	Setting descriptive information under the General Options.
3.	Implementing a welcome letter, etc.

Your assistance would be appreciated. Thank you in advance.
 
Bob
 
*********************************************** 
Robert Finkelmeier
Academic Director
New Ventures of Regis University, Inc.
6890 West 52nd Avenue, Suite 201
Arvada, Colorado 80002-3962

303-458-4275 Voice
303-964-5496 Fax
rfinkelm at regis.edu <mailto:rfinkelm at regis.edu>  Email
http://www.newventures.regis.edu <http://www.newventures.regis.edu/> 

***********************************************
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021022/365abce6/attachment.htm 

From mdodson at coremetrics.com  Wed Oct 23 06:53:29 2002
From: mdodson at coremetrics.com (Dodson, Matthew)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:53:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question -- sendmail errors
Message-ID: <85063BBE668FD411944400D0B744267A470411@ausmail.core.coremetrics.com>

I am runnibg redhat 7.2 with the latest build of mailman. I receive the
following error from sendmail when I try to confirm a subscription. Sorry if
this has been answered before.

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- 
|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ops 
    (reason: service unavailable) 
    (expanded from: <ops-request at support.coremetrics.com>) 

   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 
smrsh: wrapper.mailcmd.ops not available for sendmail programs 
554 5.0.0 Service unavailable 


Thanks,
MD 



From daniel.richter at wimba.com  Wed Oct 23 08:45:46 2002
From: daniel.richter at wimba.com (Dan Richter)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:45:46 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>

I was using Majordomo, but I got scared off when I realized that anyone 
could bypass the list posting restrictions by posting to the correct alias. 
(The normal list alias processes, then redirects to a second alias which 
blindly transmits.) The "blind forward" alias shows up in the headers, so I 
can't even hide it from people. Please reassure me that Mailman does not 
have this vulnerability!

========== Dan Richter ============== mailto:Dan at wimba.com ===========
         Customers who consider our waitresses uncivil
         ought to see the manager.
                - Sign in a restaurant in New York




From admin at web-standart.net  Wed Oct 23 09:19:03 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:19:03 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>
Message-ID: <000701c27a64$7baabae0$1c00a8c0@liliana>

I had that- question
and in current of the week tried to get here answer, but alas, nobody not
was able on this answer, come to go to majordomo

> I was using Majordomo, but I got scared off when I realized that anyone
> could bypass the list posting restrictions by posting to the correct
alias.
> (The normal list alias processes, then redirects to a second alias which
> blindly transmits.) The "blind forward" alias shows up in the headers, so
I
> can't even hide it from people. Please reassure me that Mailman does not
> have this vulnerability!
>
> ========== Dan Richter ============== mailto:Dan at wimba.com ===========
>          Customers who consider our waitresses uncivil
>          ought to see the manager.
>                 - Sign in a restaurant in New York
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From hennie at sabinet.co.za  Wed Oct 23 10:23:00 2002
From: hennie at sabinet.co.za (Hennie Rautenbach)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:23:00 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] --with-mail-gid=?
Message-ID: <3DB65C64.5080609@sabinet.co.za>

Hi there folks,

I have downloaded/configured/compiled and installed mailman-2.0.13 on a 
Sun running Solaris 8 and Python 2.2.1 and sendmail 8.10.2.

I have followed the documentation as best I could and have setup a 
mailing list etc.

When I post to the list the following error appear in /var/log/syslog...

Oct 23 10:14:44 vogue sendmail[15676]: [ID 801593 mail.info] 
g9NAEev15676: from=
<hennie at sabinet.co.za>, size=1600, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
msgid=<3DB65A82.7040903 at sa
binet.co.za>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mfwjs01.mfw.is.co.za 
[196.35.77.13]
Oct 23 10:14:44 vogue Mailman mail-wrapper: [ID 702911 mail.error] 
Failure to ex
ec script. WANTED gid 2, GOT gid 1.  (Reconfigure to take 1?)

So my (probably stupid) question is: How do I determine under which GID 
sendmail runs ?

Regards,

Hennie

-- 
===================================================================
 Hennie Rautenbach                  Work: http://www.sabinet.co.za
 082-556-1191                       Play: http://www.overland.co.za	

 It's choice, not chance, that determines your destiny. 
                                       -- Jean Nidetch
 ===================================================================



#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared 
by MailMarshal
For more information please visit www.marshalsoftware.com
#####################################################################################



From hennie at sabinet.co.za  Wed Oct 23 10:29:25 2002
From: hennie at sabinet.co.za (Hennie Rautenbach)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:29:25 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] --with-mail-gid=? (please ignore..)
References: <3DB65C64.5080609@sabinet.co.za>
Message-ID: <3DB65DE5.1080600@sabinet.co.za>

My apologies folks,

Just found it in the FAQ. Pardon the waste of bandwidth.

Regards,

Hennie

Hennie Rautenbach wrote:

> Hi there folks,
>
> I have downloaded/configured/compiled and installed mailman-2.0.13 on 
> a Sun running Solaris 8 and Python 2.2.1 and sendmail 8.10.2.
>
> I have followed the documentation as best I could and have setup a 
> mailing list etc.
>
> When I post to the list the following error appear in /var/log/syslog...
>
> Oct 23 10:14:44 vogue sendmail[15676]: [ID 801593 mail.info] 
> g9NAEev15676: from=
> <hennie at sabinet.co.za>, size=1600, class=0, nrcpts=1, 
> msgid=<3DB65A82.7040903 at sa
> binet.co.za>, proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=mfwjs01.mfw.is.co.za 
> [196.35.77.13]
> Oct 23 10:14:44 vogue Mailman mail-wrapper: [ID 702911 mail.error] 
> Failure to ex
> ec script. WANTED gid 2, GOT gid 1.  (Reconfigure to take 1?)
>
> So my (probably stupid) question is: How do I determine under which 
> GID sendmail runs ?
>
> Regards,
>
> Hennie
>

-- 
===================================================================
 Hennie Rautenbach                  Work: http://www.sabinet.co.za
 082-556-1191                       Play: http://www.overland.co.za	

 It's choice, not chance, that determines your destiny. 
                                       -- Jean Nidetch
 ===================================================================




#####################################################################################
This e-mail message has been scanned for Viruses and Content and cleared 
by MailMarshal
For more information please visit www.marshalsoftware.com
#####################################################################################



From jon at csh.rit.edu  Wed Oct 23 17:42:11 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 11:42:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>
Message-ID: <20021023154210.GA24785@csh.rit.edu>

On Wed, Oct 23, 2002 at 08:45:46AM +0200, Dan Richter wrote:

> I was using Majordomo, but I got scared off when I realized that anyone 
> could bypass the list posting restrictions by posting to the correct alias. 
> (The normal list alias processes, then redirects to a second alias which 
> blindly transmits.) The "blind forward" alias shows up in the headers, so I 
> can't even hide it from people. Please reassure me that Mailman does not 
> have this vulnerability!
 
It's quite easy to block inbound mail to majordomo's list exploder
address.  If you're using Postfix, just add something like the
following to a recipient access map:

/^(.*)-outgoing@(.*)$/!/^owner-.*/      550 Use recipient address ${1}@${2} instead.

I don't believe Mailman suffers from the same kind insecurity, though.

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Wed Oct 23 18:29:25 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:29:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2Q's: Smallest Distro - Samsung SCX-1000 can it work in linux?
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAICEAKCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

First Question, I would like to know what disto has the smallest footprint
so that I can connect to a terminal server. i would like if this could be do
with a floppy disk, imagine the joy!!

Second Question, I'm having NO luck finding drivers for the above printer in
linux. I'd like to try with the CUPS system? That should be fun! Anyway, you
can reply via the mailing list, or via my personal email. Thanks in advance.

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.394 / Virus Database: 224 - Release Date: 10/3/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2240 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021023/b9546e2d/attachment.bin 

From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 23 18:31:41 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 09:31:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Richter <daniel.richter@wimba.com> 
   of "Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:45:46 +0200." <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com> 
References: <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com> 
Message-ID: <19261.1035390701@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 08:45:46 +0200 
Dan Richter <daniel.richter at wimba.com> wrote:

> I was using Majordomo, but I got scared off when I realized that
> anyone could bypass the list posting restrictions by posting to the
> correct alias. (The normal list alias processes, then redirects to a
> second alias which blindly transmits.) The "blind forward" alias shows
> up in the headers, so I can't even hide it from people. Please
> reassure me that Mailman does not have this vulnerability!

Mailman doesn't use secret aliased.

Mailman v2.0 authenticates on From: or envelope (you pick).

Mailman v2.1 authenticates on From: and envelope.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From daniel.richter at wimba.com  Wed Oct 23 19:00:06 2002
From: daniel.richter at wimba.com (Dan Richter)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:00:06 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security 
In-Reply-To: <19261.1035390701@kanga.nu>
References: <Message from Dan Richter <daniel.richter@wimba.com>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>
 <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20021023185526.029f3cd0@mail.wimba.com>

>Mailman doesn't use secret aliased.

That's good.

>Mailman v2.0 authenticates on From: or envelope (you pick).
>
>Mailman v2.1 authenticates on From: and envelope.

Pardon me for being a pain here, but isn't it ridiculously easy to forge a 
From:, and also rather easy to forge an envelope?

Now I'll be humble and admit that I don't even know what an envelope is. So 
my question about the envelope really boils down to: if I have root access 
on a machine other than the one Mailman is running on, can I fool Mailman's 
envelope recognition?

========== Dan Richter ============== mailto:Dan at wimba.com ===========
        He [Bob Dole] fought in Italy, where he suffered
        a serious head injury. Then he went into politics.
                - a poorly worded radio announcement in 1961




From admin at web-standart.net  Wed Oct 23 19:03:37 2002
From: admin at web-standart.net (admin)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:03:37 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security 
References: <Message from Dan Richter <daniel.richter@wimba.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20021023185526.029f3cd0@mail.wimba.com>
Message-ID: <00e601c27ab6$24b56760$1c00a8c0@liliana>

> >Mailman v2.1 authenticates on From: and envelope.
What is used?
>
> Pardon me for being a pain here, but isn't it ridiculously easy to forge a
> From:, and also rather easy to forge an envelope?
>
> Now I'll be humble and admit that I don't even know what an envelope is.
So
> my question about the envelope really boils down to: if I have root access
> on a machine other than the one Mailman is running on, can I fool
Mailman's
> envelope recognition?
no seen protection no - write although with any machines, but faked field
From: and access open - I checked from miscellaneous hosts and domains




From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Wed Oct 23 19:31:22 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:31:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner backlog in mailman 2.1b3
Message-ID: <101690000.1035394282@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

OK, so mailman 2.1b3 was doing a better of not getting backlogged than 
mailman 2.0.12, but today I have 1085 files total in all the queues (552 in 
the in queue).  The oldest file in the in queue is about 1 hour old. 
Should mailman be able to handle high volume bursty postings like this? 
The system itself is pretty fast (PIII 733 with 1GB RAM, fast disks, local 
caching named server).  qrunner logs (or any other log, for that matter) 
don't point out anything unusual.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 23 19:32:56 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:32:56 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Security 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Richter <daniel.richter@wimba.com> 
   of "Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:00:06 +0200." <5.1.0.14.1.20021023185526.029f3cd0@mail.wimba.com> 
References: <Message from Dan Richter <daniel.richter@wimba.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com> <5.1.0.14.1.20021022175543.029e8100@mail.wimba.com>  <5.1.0.14.1.20021023185526.029f3cd0@mail.wimba.com> 
Message-ID: <20725.1035394376@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 23 Oct 2002 19:00:06 +0200 
Dan Richter <daniel.richter at wimba.com> wrote:

> Pardon me for being a pain here, but isn't it ridiculously easy to
> forge a From:, and also rather easy to forge an envelope?

From: is trivial under many MTAs.  Envelope requires understanding SMTP
and driving that manually.  However, this is largely moot: if you need
strong(er) authentication in email systems, period, and this is not just
limited to Mailman, you're basically into the realms of PKI.

  Exception: (I do this in a couple case) I require mail arriving with
  specific From: and Envelopes to also list specific addresses in the
  Received: headers.  This is not strong, it is equally trivially forged
  as the envelope, but it is (currently) a sufficient barrier to entry
  to cut even the few who do forge envelopes that I've found.

> Now I'll be humble and admit that I don't even know what an envelope
> is. 

Crudely, its the "From " header (note the space).  More usefully the
envelope contains the return-path, the address to which a bounce should
be sent back to if this message bounces.

> So my question about the envelope really boils down to: if I have root
> access on a machine other than the one Mailman is running on, can I
> fool Mailman's envelope recognition?

Absolutely.

You don't need root access on any system to forge email.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.




From gbm at pecosbill.com  Sat Oct 19 06:28:46 2002
From: gbm at pecosbill.com (gbm at pecosbill.com)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 04:28:46 GMT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and domino mail server
Message-ID: <OF4B5D637C.30F665FD-ON86256C57.0017A3BA@mctires.com>

I have mailman on a slackware box with sendmail.    ww1.mydomain.com
The mailserver for ww1 is mx.mydomain.com. It is a WinNT box running Domino
Mail Server.
I have a mailing list: list
So the addresses are : list at mydomain.com
          list-admin at mydomain.com
          list-requests at mydomain.com
          list-owner at mydomain.com
These are set up in aliases.

When I try to send a request, etc, say to list at mydomain.com it routes to
mx.mydomain.com and is rejected because their is no user name
list at mydomain.com on the Domino Server.  If I make a user
list at mydomain.com, it stops at the Domino Server level.

How do I get the mail back to ww1.mydomain.com?

Brent Mayes




From jfaris at pop3.utoledo.edu  Sat Oct 19 06:57:06 2002
From: jfaris at pop3.utoledo.edu (Jared Faris)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 00:57:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron sending mailman error every 15 mins
Message-ID: <000101c2772b$f8e87c40$0200a8c0@eva01>

I have had a lot of trouble getting mailman to run on my debian box, and
I am going to setup another box to play with it on because of said
trouble...but I am having a really major issue.

Every fifteen minutes or so I get the following email:


from: root at myserver
subject: Cron <mail at myserver>   if [ -x /usr/sbin/exim -a -f
/etc/exim/exim.conf ]; then /usr/sbin/exim -q ; fi

2002-10-18 23:23:02 182JT9-0003AY-03 Neither the system_aliases director
nor the address_pipe transport set a uid for local delivery of
|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner cr


Cron is sending it regularly and it is almost self DOS'ing itself.  I
su'd to the mail user and checked his crontab with a "crontab -u mail
-l" and it says there is no crontab for user.  I tried to do the same
from many of the other possible users that mail could have dealt with to
no avail.

If anyone knows how I can find out what is causing this and stop it I
would be eternally grateful.  I saw some posts in the past about this
issue but was unable to find any solutions.


Jared Faris




From Kiev1 at web-standart.net  Sat Oct 19 19:22:16 2002
From: Kiev1 at web-standart.net (kiev1)
Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 19:22:16 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
References: <200210191250.g9JCoRW20504@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu> <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a@ALFA>
Message-ID: <005b01c27794$15c82aa0$0200a8c0@silence>

I unfortunately (((
I unfortunately as have not found a way to make admin-post only list and
anybody and could not answer me - how to make as well as in majordomo in a
body of the letter " Aproved: password "  (((

> Hi Erez,
>
> Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.  That'll
do
> exactly what you are asking for.
>
> Take care,
> Mike
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Erez Zadok" <ezk at cs.sunysb.edu>
>
>
> > On one mailman list I maintain, I get spams submitted to the list.
> Spammers
> > find out about that list and I can't do much about that.  However, when
> such
> > a spam comes to me, it gets queued by mailman and I, the list-admin,
have
> to
> > go and manually reject/discard those spams.  It's becoming an annoying
> > chore.  I'd like to be able to just configure Mailman to discard/reject
> ALL
> > non-subscriber emails, and have mailman send them back a note saying
they
> > have to subscribe first.  I didn't see such a feature off hand in
Mailman.
> > Is there? (maybe part of the 2.1 anti-spam features?)
> >
> > Occasionally a non-subscriber really asks an appropriate question on my
> > list.  I'm willing to accept that those people will have to subscribe
> first;
> > it's the price they have to pay --- but it'll save me time.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Erez.





From whitestar at sourcevisions.net  Mon Oct 21 06:52:59 2002
From: whitestar at sourcevisions.net (Terence)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 12:52:59 +0800 (SGT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help on email headers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210211246460.30125-100000@sourcevisions.net>

Hello,

I see some redundant links on the email headers, listed below:

List-Help: <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=help> 
List-Post: <mailto:be at sourcevisions.net> 
List-Subscribe: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/mailman/listinfo/be>, 
        <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=subscribe> 
List-Id: Basic Essence Mailing List <be.sourcevisions.net> 
List-Unsubscribe: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/mailman/listinfo/be>, 
        <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=unsubscribe> 
List-Archive: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/pipermail/be/> 

Is there any way to remove those above while only maintaining the 
List-Id?. Those lines are extras since we can follow the link below to 
configure our options

I'll appreciate if anyone can help me out

Thank you very much :) 

-- 
Best Regards
Terence Tham
E-Alias: Odin 
whitestar at sourcevisions.net




From bhorton at psdservices.com  Mon Oct 21 23:41:40 2002
From: bhorton at psdservices.com (Bob Horton)
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:41:40 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Official Mailman Logo in EPS format
Message-ID: <IBEKKNHHNCEOJEKPKPAFIEOMCFAA.bhorton@psdservices.com>

Hi,

I am involved in an Open Source Expo and we would like to put a large
version (ie about 10 x 20 inches) of the Mailman logo on the back of a
booth.

Where would I go to find a version in EPS format that could be used?

Thanks in advance.

Bob Horton.

Bob Horton
PSD Services Inc.
Web Hosting & Development
Phone: (306) 522-4638 (522-INET)
bhorton at psdservices.com




From johan at fransson.se  Tue Oct 22 21:11:31 2002
From: johan at fransson.se (Johan Fransson)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 21:11:31 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CVS
Message-ID: <3DB5A2E3.83717986@fransson.se>

Hi!

I wonder how I can get the latest CVS-version of mailman.
I have not been able to find any repository adress on your site?

I also wonder if you plan to develop the list-join functionality soon
since it is in your TODO-list?
I was thinking I might do it myself if it is not finished :)

Best Regards, Johan

--
****************************************************************
| Datorkraft i Stockholm - datorer, programmering, webhotell...|
****************************************************************
| Johan Fransson     | Tel: 08-35 13 41   | johan at fransson.se  |
| Malmv?gen 57 A, BV | Cell:070-766 48 17 | info at fransson.se   |
| 191 62 Sollentuna  | SMS: 0707664817 at sms.tele2.se            |
| www.fransson.se    | www.datorkraft.se  | ICQ:3682765        |
****************************************************************






From Prakash.Subramanian at nsc.com  Tue Oct 22 23:39:54 2002
From: Prakash.Subramanian at nsc.com (Prakash Subramanian)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:39:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman withlist documents
Message-ID: <3DB5C5AA.2020904@acme.nsc.com>

Hello,

I am trying to use withlist+python through command line to control 100s 
of lists.  I know only m.Save(), m.Unlock() ... where can I find 
documents more about functions like these.

Please help.

Thanks,
Prakash





From knabet at wou.edu  Wed Oct 23 02:12:50 2002
From: knabet at wou.edu (Travis Knabe)
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:12:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
Message-ID: <1e29d01e4877.1e48771e29d0@wou.edu>

This is the message I'm getting when I try to send a message to my list 
called testing at wou.edu

The .db files they're referring to have the owner as nsuser ( what my 
webserver on a diff. machine runs under ) During the config I told it to run 
the cgi-scripts as nsgroup ( the group my webserver runs as )  But the 
group on the .db files is set to mailman.  So I'm not sure what doesn't 
have permissions to the .db file 

any help would be great.

Travis Knabe
Systems Manager
503-838-8507
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at wou.edu>
Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
Size: 3479
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021022/a87b7cb1/attachment.mht 

From gaspirtz at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 23 19:39:31 2002
From: gaspirtz at yahoo.com (Oliver)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Software
Message-ID: <20021023173931.14889.qmail@web11806.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi...

I would like to use your software to run my mailing list (about
900,000 subscribers) on my own server (currently I use Lyris.)

I would like to run Mailamn on a 1.3 GHZ Celeron with 512 mb Ram, but
I could also upgrade to 1 GB Ram, or get a 2 GHZ Pentium 4 if you
think that would improve performance.

How many mails can Mailman send out per hour? I usually send out one
e-mail every day at midnight, and occasionally a second mail at 11
am. Do you think your software would be able to handle that? What's
the largest list you know of that is being managed through your
software?

Thank you.

Oliver



__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/



From jon at csh.rit.edu  Wed Oct 23 23:59:35 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 17:59:35 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CVS
In-Reply-To: <3DB5A2E3.83717986@fransson.se>
References: <3DB5A2E3.83717986@fransson.se>
Message-ID: <20021023215935.GE28226@csh.rit.edu>

On Tue, Oct 22, 2002 at 09:11:31PM +0200, Johan Fransson wrote:

> I wonder how I can get the latest CVS-version of mailman.
> I have not been able to find any repository adress on your site?

http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=103

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/



From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Thu Oct 24 01:35:06 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 16:35:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speeding up archiver in mailman 2.1b3?
Message-ID: <176920000.1035416106@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

Since I'm hopelessly backlogged in my archive queue (1644 files), does 
anyone have any suggestions for speeding up archiving?  The qrunner process 
is certainly eating up CPU and memory, but is only archiving about 1 msg 
per minute.  All the other queues move at a decent pace.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311



From shane at another.org  Thu Oct 24 02:50:18 2002
From: shane at another.org (Shane DeRidder)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 20:50:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.0.13 -- list configuration not saving?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210232042080.5678-100000@scratchpost.hq.another.org>

I upgraded to 2.0.13 from 2.0.11 a while back and everything has been 
running fine.  The lists I maintain have all been working perfectly as 
with previous versions.

Tonite, I created a new list.  Any changes I attempt to make this list via
the web interface do not get saved.  I cannot add subscribers to the list
from the web interface either.  I can, however, use config_list to make
changes to the new list, and it saves properly.

My previously running lists seem unaffected.  I can make changes and
add/remove subscribers via the web and also the commandline tools with no 
problems.

Neither Mailman nor Apache are generating any error messages.

I'm running the following:

RedHat Linux 7.2 on Intel.
Apache 1.3.27
Mailman 2.0.13 (compiled and installed from source)
Python v1.5.2 (RedHat RPM)


Anyone have any ideas?

--
 __              _     _              Founder/Owner - shane at another.org
(_ |_  _.._  _  | \ _ |_)o _| _| _ ._ AnotherNet - http://www.another.net/
__)| |(_|| |(/_ |_/(/_| \|(_|(_|(/_|  Your Internet Community!




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 03:57:56 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 23 Oct 2002 21:57:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
In-Reply-To: <1e29d01e4877.1e48771e29d0@wou.edu>
References: <1e29d01e4877.1e48771e29d0@wou.edu>
Message-ID: <1035424677.1633.28.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

have you run ~mailman/bin/check_perms?

The owner of the .db file should be the mailman user.
Good Luck

On Tue, 2002-10-22 at 20:12, Travis Knabe wrote:
> This is the message I'm getting when I try to send a message to my list 
> called testing at wou.edu
> 
> The .db files they're referring to have the owner as nsuser ( what my 
> webserver on a diff. machine runs under ) During the config I told it to run 
> the cgi-scripts as nsgroup ( the group my webserver runs as )  But the 
> group on the .db files is set to mailman.  So I'm not sure what doesn't 
> have permissions to the .db file 
> 
> any help would be great.
> 
> Travis Knabe
> Systems Manager
> 503-838-8507
> ----
> 

> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at wou.edu>
> To: knabet at wou.edu
> Subject: Returned mail: unknown mailer error 1
> Date: 22 Oct 2002 17:09:47 -0700
> 
> The original message was received at Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
> from kitty.wou.edu [140.211.117.31]
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> "|/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/mail/wrapper post testing"
>     (expanded from: <testing at wou.edu>)
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/scripts/post", line 94, in ?
>     main()
>   File "/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/scripts/post", line 73, in main
>     mlist = MailList.MailList(listname, lock=0)
>   File "/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 79, in __init__
>     self.Load()
>   File "/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 892, in Load
>     dict, e = self.__load(dbfile)
>   File "/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 869, in __load
>     fp = open(dbfile)
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/lists/testing/config.db'
> 554 "|/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/mail/wrapper post testing"... unknown mailer error 1
> ----
> 

> Reporting-MTA: dns; gilligan.wou.edu
> Received-From-MTA: DNS; kitty.wou.edu
> Arrival-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:09:45 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; <testing at wou.edu>
> X-Actual-Recipient: RFC822; |/net/aero/global/a1/data/solaris8/apps/mailman/mail/wrapper post testing at gilligan.wou.edu
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.0.0
> Last-Attempt-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:09:47 -0700 (PDT)
> ----
> 

> From: Travis Knabe <knabet at kitty.wou.edu>
> To: testing at wou.edu
> Subject: asl;kdfja;l
> Date: 22 Oct 2002 17:10:25 -0700
> 
> 
> 
> Travis Knabe
> Systems Manager
> 503-838-8507
> 





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 04:07:23 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 23 Oct 2002 22:07:23 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] newbie question -- sendmail errors
In-Reply-To: 
	<85063BBE668FD411944400D0B744267A470411@ausmail.core.coremetrics.com>
References: 
	<85063BBE668FD411944400D0B744267A470411@ausmail.core.coremetrics.com>
Message-ID: <1035425244.1633.38.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

This is simply one of the first of a few errors you will run into while
installing on Red Hat (using the rpms). 

You need to add a link in your /etc/smrsh directory to your mailman
wrapper program.  Something like:
  cd /etc/smrsh
  ln -s ~mailman/mail/wrapper wrapper

This tells smrsh that Mailman's wrapper program is okay-dokie to run via
a Sendmail alias.

Next problem you will run into is that your Sendmail does not listen for
a local connection.  If you install from source, there are some really
nice files that tell you all about smrsh and about the overly paranoid
Sendmail problem - and how to get around them.

There are a couple of ways around the Sendmail problem, the easiest is
to comment out the line in your /etc/sendmail.cf file that restricts the
interfaces used by Sendmail.  If that line is commented out then
Sendmail will default to listening on all local interfaces, and isn't
that a happy thing to do!?!

  # SMTP client options
  #O ClientPortOptions=Address= ......

Good Luck!

On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 00:53, Dodson, Matthew wrote:
> I am runnibg redhat 7.2 with the latest build of mailman. I receive the
> following error from sendmail when I try to confirm a subscription. Sorry if
> this has been answered before.
> 
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- 
> |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd ops 
>     (reason: service unavailable) 
>     (expanded from: <ops-request at support.coremetrics.com>) 
> 
>    ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 
> smrsh: wrapper.mailcmd.ops not available for sendmail programs 
> 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> MD 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From emmettc at mindpie.com  Thu Oct 24 07:59:41 2002
From: emmettc at mindpie.com (Emmett Culley)
Date: 23 Oct 2002 22:59:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail to lists are rejected
Message-ID: <1035439181.27315.91.camel@EMMETT1>

I running a RH 7.3 distro, and am using Mailman with sendmail and
apache.  I can successfully send and receive e-mail both locally and
remotely, and the web server works correctly as well.

I've managed to get Mailman installed with the web interface working.  I
can add a new list and the list owner gets the notification message.  I
can add users from the admin page and they get the notification.

In all cases, replies to the addresses given in the notifications are
rejected by the server.  As are posts to the list.

I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.

I run into the end of my understanding of the "connection" from sendmail
to Mailman and cannot seem to find the information on the web.

None of the e-mail from this group or in the archives seems to address
this particular problem.  I am sure it is my configuration.

I'd be grateful for any help.

Emmett







From ashley at pcraft.com  Thu Oct 24 08:02:45 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 00:02:45 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail to lists are rejected
References: <1035439181.27315.91.camel@EMMETT1>
Message-ID: <3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com>

Emmett Culley wrote:

> I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
> unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
> minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.

    Did you forget to add the necessary aliases to sendmail?

--
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From jonc at NC.RR.COM  Thu Oct 24 15:03:54 2002
From: jonc at NC.RR.COM (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 09:03:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail to lists are rejected
In-Reply-To: <3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com>
References: <1035439181.27315.91.camel@EMMETT1> 
	<3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <1035464634.5406.3.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

It could also be a relay problem since the server is sending mail from a
local user (the mailman admin), but not sending mail from off-site
personnel. 

If you added the aliases (and ran newaliases) then check your
/etc/mail/access file and see if localhost (127.0.0.1) is allowed to
relay


On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 02:02, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
> Emmett Culley wrote:
> 
> > I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
> > unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
> > minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.
> 
>     Did you forget to add the necessary aliases to sendmail?
> 
> --
> H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
>   +--------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
>   IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
>   Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
>   http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Thu Oct 24 15:20:22 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 09:20:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210240916560.93412-100000@seyyav.pair.com>

Hi,

I'm running mailman 2.06 on a freebsd box.  From time to time, posts to my
lists start being delivered in duplicate, some times even triplicate,
quadruplicate, and more.

Checking the headers confirms it is the same message being sent out twice.
Is this a know issues and is there any fix for it? A patch or upgrade
maybe?

Thanks,
Sean




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Thu Oct 24 16:09:57 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:09:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210240916560.93412-100000@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024145703.00a889b8@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 14:20 24/10/2002, sean pambianco wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm running mailman 2.06 on a freebsd box.  From time to time, posts to my
>lists start being delivered in duplicate, some times even triplicate,
>quadruplicate, and more.
>
>Checking the headers confirms it is the same message being sent out twice.
>Is this a know issues and is there any fix for it? A patch or upgrade
>maybe?
>
>Thanks,
>Sean

Just a sanity check, you haven't got any umbrella lists that could be 
causing this have you?

If not, the issue is whether it is Mailman sending things out multiple 
times or your MTA.

I'd try to verify from the MTA log (?var/log/mail ?) whether Mailman is 
passing the duplicates to the MTA or not.

If Mailman isn't passing the MTA duplicates then suspect the MTA; for 
instance, I'm told that there are circumstances when Sendmail will send out 
duplicates.




From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Thu Oct 24 17:41:42 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024145703.00a889b8@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210241132060.34143-100000@seyyav.pair.com>


> Just a sanity check, you haven't got any umbrella lists that could be
> causing this have you?
>
> If not, the issue is whether it is Mailman sending things out multiple
> times or your MTA.
>
> I'd try to verify from the MTA log (?var/log/mail ?) whether Mailman is
> passing the duplicates to the MTA or not.
>
> If Mailman isn't passing the MTA duplicates then suspect the MTA; for
> instance, I'm told that there are circumstances when Sendmail will send out
> duplicates.


No umbrella lists.  I'm running postfix as the MTA.

I'll check the logs.  Question, if qrunner got started via cron before the
previous cron start finished could that possible resend the post to the
list again?

Sean




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Thu Oct 24 18:51:02 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 17:51:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210241132060.34143-100000@seyyav.pair.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024145703.00a889b8@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024173815.03b6e660@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 16:41 24/10/2002, sean pambianco wrote:


> > Just a sanity check, you haven't got any umbrella lists that could be
> > causing this have you?
> >
> > If not, the issue is whether it is Mailman sending things out multiple
> > times or your MTA.
> >
> > I'd try to verify from the MTA log (?var/log/mail ?) whether Mailman is
> > passing the duplicates to the MTA or not.
> >
> > If Mailman isn't passing the MTA duplicates then suspect the MTA; for
> > instance, I'm told that there are circumstances when Sendmail will send out
> > duplicates.
>
>
>No umbrella lists.  I'm running postfix as the MTA.
>
>I'll check the logs.  Question, if qrunner got started via cron before the
>previous cron start finished could that possible resend the post to the
>list again?
>
>Sean

Not likely. I'd expect any qrunner started by cron while another was still 
running to log 'Could not acquire qrunner lock' in the $prefix/logs/qrunner 
log and exit.

When these problems occur does anything indicative show up in Mailman's 
post, smtp, smtp-failure or error logs?




From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Thu Oct 24 19:02:53 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:02:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024173815.03b6e660@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210241301050.52154-100000@seyyav.pair.com>

> >I'll check the logs.  Question, if qrunner got started via cron before the
> >previous cron start finished could that possible resend the post to the
> >list again?
> >
> >Sean
>
> Not likely. I'd expect any qrunner started by cron while another was still
> running to log 'Could not acquire qrunner lock' in the $prefix/logs/qrunner
> log and exit.
>
> When these problems occur does anything indicative show up in Mailman's
> post, smtp, smtp-failure or error logs?

So then, at any one time there should only be one instance of qrunner
running on the server?

I constantly see mulitiple copies of qrunner running on the server.

Sean




From bb at L8R.net  Thu Oct 24 19:27:07 2002
From: bb at L8R.net (Brad Barnett)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:27:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding my own bit to the "unsubscribe" command
In-Reply-To: <20021024172501.13919.89040.Mailman@mail.python.org>
References: <20021024172501.13919.89040.Mailman@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20021024132707.3262d455.bb@L8R.net>


Hello all,

Would anyone have a good suggestion on how get a bit of code executed
every time someone unsubscribes from a list?  I want the code to execute
if the user uses the web interface or the -request email address for the
list.

Is there such a way to do this without having to modify mailman itself?



From badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk  Thu Oct 24 19:09:30 2002
From: badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk (Angel Gabriel)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:09:30 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I...
Message-ID: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>

... send out a mail to everyone on my list, and have it automatically
display thier unsubscribe/options link... the one that is unique to thier
email address?

***
Not everyone is touched by an Angel......and those that are, never forget
the experience.
***
If you want guest list for bare club
nights.....http://raw-talent.hopto.org/mailman/clubnights
***
Can you sing, dance, MC, DJ, do you have talent?Send an email to
sign-me at raw-talent.hopto.org
***


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.404 / Virus Database: 228 - Release Date: 10/15/02
 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 1924 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021024/945bbee3/attachment.bin 

From camel at lrllamas.com  Thu Oct 24 19:48:25 2002
From: camel at lrllamas.com (Jay S Curtis)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:48:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I...
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <200210241348.25870.camel@lrllamas.com>

that would be a nice trick to go out with the monthly password update...

On Thursday 24 October 2002 01:09 pm, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> ... send out a mail to everyone on my list, and have it automatically
> display thier unsubscribe/options link... the one that is unique to thier
> email address?

-- 
Medical Fact: Realistic expectation can provide complete relief
from frequent disappointment.

Jay S. Curtis




From sb.list at sb.org  Thu Oct 24 20:00:59 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:00:59 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I...
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <B9DDAD9B.4A65D%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/24/02 1:09 PM, "Angel Gabriel" <badmangabriel at lycos.co.uk> wrote:

> ... send out a mail to everyone on my list, and have it automatically
> display thier unsubscribe/options link... the one that is unique to thier
> email address?

Upgrade to the latest CVS version? Or wait for the next beta.

 - Stoney




From ccalzone at quarry.com  Thu Oct 24 19:59:08 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 13:59:08 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
Message-ID: <4B198AF0-E77A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

I've set up a Mailman list server on a linux box running Qmail as it's 
mail server.  In building mailman, I set the cgi group id to the same 
as what our webserver runs as, and the mail group id as the one used by 
the qmail user "mailuser", which initially seemed to work just fine.

Now, however, after a few weeks of non-usage, I picked up the project 
again, to find that Mailman no longer seems to be talking to Qmail.  
There are no entries in /var/log/maillog acknowledging any 
communication with Mailman, and Mailman logs every attempted message 
send in ~mailman/logs/bounce although nothing shows up in the error log.

Is there a good way to find out at what point (and why) the mail 
sending is failing?




From jchum at aismedia.com  Thu Oct 24 20:08:41 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:08:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why is Mailman not sending?
In-Reply-To: <20021021122009.A32494@dogpound.vnet.net>
Message-ID: <00a701c27b88$62a367c0$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Actually, now that I look into it, the qrunner line is commented out. I am
not sure why the admin decided to do so, but would not affect why the mail
is not being delivered via qrunner?

bash-2.05a# crontab -u mailman -l
# At 5PM every day, mail reminders to admins as to pending requests
0 17 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /svc/mail/mailman/cron/checkdbs
#
# Noon, mail digests for lists that do periodic as well as threshhold
delivery.
0 12 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /svc/mail/mailman/cron/senddigests
#
# 5 AM on the first of each month, mail out password reminders.
0 5 1 * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /svc/mail/mailman/cron/mailpasswds
#
# Every 5 mins, try to gate news to mail.  You can comment this one out
# if you don't want to allow gating, or don't have any going on right now,
# or want to exclusively use a callback strategy instead of polling.
#0,5,10,15,20,25,30,35,40,45,50,55 * * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S
/svc/mail/mailman/cron/gate_news
#
# At 3:27am every night, regenerate the gzip'd archive file.  Only
# turn this on if the internal archiver is used and
# GZIP_ARCHIVE_TXT_FILES is false in mm_cfg.py
27 3 * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /svc/mail/mailman/cron/nightly_gzip
#
# Retry failed deliveries once per minute.
#*/10 * * * * /usr/local/bin/python -S /svc/mail/mailman/cron/qrunner

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Davis
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 12:20 PM
To: Jonathan Chum
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Why is Mailman not sending?


Did you install the crontab for the mailman user using the crontab.in file?

* Jonathan Chum (jchum at aismedia.com) wrote:
> I've sent a test message to the list and nothing came out of it. I am not
> sure it suppose to take 10 minutes just incase it's queing things up. I've
> open the qfiles folder under the Mailman directory and my messages are
> located there. I am not sure if that's normal, but I think Mailman has
> accepted the email, but just not sending it out.
>

Matthew Davis
http://dogpound.vnet.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
What a long, strange trip it's been!
----------------------------------------------------------------
Monday, October 21, 2002 / 12:18PM

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 20:33:38 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 14:33:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I...
In-Reply-To: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
References: <NGBBLKFIDENNFHKFMGAIOEFNCLAA.badmangabriel@lycos.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1035484418.5577.16.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:09, Angel Gabriel wrote:
> ... send out a mail to everyone on my list, and have it automatically
> display thier unsubscribe/options link... the one that is unique to thier
> email address?
> 
The monthly reminder does that.  You can look at Mailman's cron and
simply submit the same command su-ed as mailman.




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 20:49:36 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 14:49:36 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding my own bit to the "unsubscribe" command
In-Reply-To: <20021024132707.3262d455.bb@L8R.net>
References: <20021024172501.13919.89040.Mailman@mail.python.org> 
	<20021024132707.3262d455.bb@L8R.net>
Message-ID: <1035485376.5577.33.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Modifying mailman is no big deal, but you could simply run a cron job
every hour that compares the current members (~mailman/bin/list_members)
to a stored list.  If the stored list is different, then execute a
command using the diff and restore the modified list.

Good Luck!

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:27, Brad Barnett wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> Would anyone have a good suggestion on how get a bit of code executed
> every time someone unsubscribes from a list?  I want the code to execute
> if the user uses the web interface or the -request email address for the
> list.
> 
> Is there such a way to do this without having to modify mailman itself?
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From bb at L8R.net  Thu Oct 24 20:52:27 2002
From: bb at L8R.net (Brad Barnett)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 14:52:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding my own bit to the "unsubscribe" command
In-Reply-To: <1035485376.5577.33.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
References: <20021024172501.13919.89040.Mailman@mail.python.org>
	<20021024132707.3262d455.bb@L8R.net>
	<1035485376.5577.33.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <20021024145227.4d360e5d.bb@L8R.net>


I thought of something along this line about a 1/2 hour ago, but I was
going to use the find_member script.  It's probably more efficient to use
your method though, dump it into a perl array, and compare an output from
my database query that way.

Thanks!

On 24 Oct 2002 14:49:36 -0400
Jon Carnes <jonc at nc.rr.com> wrote:

> Modifying mailman is no big deal, but you could simply run a cron job
> every hour that compares the current members (~mailman/bin/list_members)
> to a stored list.  If the stored list is different, then execute a
> command using the diff and restore the modified list.
> 
> Good Luck!
> 
> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:27, Brad Barnett wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hello all,
> > 
> > Would anyone have a good suggestion on how get a bit of code executed
> > every time someone unsubscribes from a list?  I want the code to
> > execute if the user uses the web interface or the -request email
> > address for the list.
> > 
> > Is there such a way to do this without having to modify mailman
> > itself?
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 21:32:30 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 15:32:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <4B198AF0-E77A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
References: <4B198AF0-E77A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
Message-ID: <1035487953.5577.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Check to see that cron is running and then run qrunner by hand (using
the format of the mailman cron job that runs every minute).

Good Luck
===
On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:59, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> I've set up a Mailman list server on a linux box running Qmail as it's 
> mail server.  In building mailman, I set the cgi group id to the same 
> as what our webserver runs as, and the mail group id as the one used by 
> the qmail user "mailuser", which initially seemed to work just fine.
> 
> Now, however, after a few weeks of non-usage, I picked up the project 
> again, to find that Mailman no longer seems to be talking to Qmail.  
> There are no entries in /var/log/maillog acknowledging any 
> communication with Mailman, and Mailman logs every attempted message 
> send in ~mailman/logs/bounce although nothing shows up in the error log.
> 
> Is there a good way to find out at what point (and why) the mail 
> sending is failing?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jchum at aismedia.com  Thu Oct 24 21:52:06 2002
From: jchum at aismedia.com (Jonathan Chum)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:52:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <1035487953.5577.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c27b96$d5202640$cd1b9642@atlp.aismedia.com>

Yea,

I tried that and it works! Thanks. I am not sure why the admin disabled the
qrunner since March yet had other processes running. After commenting back
in the cronjob, the emails that were queued since, splurged and were
delivered :) yupee

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Jon Carnes
Sent: Thursday, October 24, 2002 3:33 PM
To: Christopher Calzonetti
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?


Check to see that cron is running and then run qrunner by hand (using
the format of the mailman cron job that runs every minute).

Good Luck
===
On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:59, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> I've set up a Mailman list server on a linux box running Qmail as it's
> mail server.  In building mailman, I set the cgi group id to the same
> as what our webserver runs as, and the mail group id as the one used by
> the qmail user "mailuser", which initially seemed to work just fine.
>
> Now, however, after a few weeks of non-usage, I picked up the project
> again, to find that Mailman no longer seems to be talking to Qmail.
> There are no entries in /var/log/maillog acknowledging any
> communication with Mailman, and Mailman logs every attempted message
> send in ~mailman/logs/bounce although nothing shows up in the error log.
>
> Is there a good way to find out at what point (and why) the mail
> sending is failing?
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From ccalzone at quarry.com  Thu Oct 24 21:54:39 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 15:54:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <1035487953.5577.35.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <6E4F846E-E78A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

cron seems to be working well enough.  I just inserted a quick little 
thing like

37 15 * * * echo test

and got an e-mail at 3:37pm.

When I ran the qrunner entry:

/usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner

and it seemed to run without complaining.  I'm not sure that that's the 
problem though, as the bounce and smtp log entries in ~mailman/logs are 
being updated.

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 03:32 p, Jon Carnes wrote:

> Check to see that cron is running and then run qrunner by hand (using
> the format of the mailman cron job that runs every minute).
>
> Good Luck
> ===
> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:59, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
>> I've set up a Mailman list server on a linux box running Qmail as it's
>> mail server.  In building mailman, I set the cgi group id to the same
>> as what our webserver runs as, and the mail group id as the one used 
>> by
>> the qmail user "mailuser", which initially seemed to work just fine.
>>
>> Now, however, after a few weeks of non-usage, I picked up the project
>> again, to find that Mailman no longer seems to be talking to Qmail.
>> There are no entries in /var/log/maillog acknowledging any
>> communication with Mailman, and Mailman logs every attempted message
>> send in ~mailman/logs/bounce although nothing shows up in the error 
>> log.
>>
>> Is there a good way to find out at what point (and why) the mail
>> sending is failing?
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 22:09:11 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 16:09:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <6E4F846E-E78A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
References: <6E4F846E-E78A-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
Message-ID: <1035490152.5577.58.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail doesn't
record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?

Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?

  netstat -na |grep ":25 "

If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
   tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN

If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, you
would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the Defaults.py
file as an example of what to put in there.

Good Luck.

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 15:54, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> cron seems to be working well enough.  I just inserted a quick little 
> thing like
> 
> 37 15 * * * echo test
> 
> and got an e-mail at 3:37pm.
> 
> When I ran the qrunner entry:
> 
> /usr/bin/python -S /usr/local/mailman/cron/qrunner
> 
> and it seemed to run without complaining.  I'm not sure that that's the 
> problem though, as the bounce and smtp log entries in ~mailman/logs are 
> being updated.
> 
> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 03:32 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
> 
> > Check to see that cron is running and then run qrunner by hand (using
> > the format of the mailman cron job that runs every minute).
> >
> > Good Luck
> > ===
> > On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 13:59, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> >> I've set up a Mailman list server on a linux box running Qmail as it's
> >> mail server.  In building mailman, I set the cgi group id to the same
> >> as what our webserver runs as, and the mail group id as the one used 
> >> by
> >> the qmail user "mailuser", which initially seemed to work just fine.
> >>
> >> Now, however, after a few weeks of non-usage, I picked up the project
> >> again, to find that Mailman no longer seems to be talking to Qmail.
> >> There are no entries in /var/log/maillog acknowledging any
> >> communication with Mailman, and Mailman logs every attempted message
> >> send in ~mailman/logs/bounce although nothing shows up in the error 
> >> log.
> >>
> >> Is there a good way to find out at what point (and why) the mail
> >> sending is failing?
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------
> >> Mailman-Users mailing list
> >> Mailman-Users at python.org
> >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> >> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >> Searchable Archives: 
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From mailman at tux.org  Thu Oct 24 22:26:47 2002
From: mailman at tux.org (mailman at tux.org)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:26:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help on email headers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210211246460.30125-100000@sourcevisions.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.30.0210241612050.4232-100000@gwyn.tux.org>

On Mon, 21 Oct 2002, Terence wrote:

> I see some redundant links on the email headers, listed below:
>
> List-Help: <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=help>
> List-Post: <mailto:be at sourcevisions.net>
> List-Subscribe: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/mailman/listinfo/be>,
>         <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=subscribe>
> List-Id: Basic Essence Mailing List <be.sourcevisions.net>
> List-Unsubscribe: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/mailman/listinfo/be>,
>         <mailto:be-request at sourcevisions.net?subject=unsubscribe>
> List-Archive: <http://sourcevisions.net:81/pipermail/be/>
>
> Is there any way to remove those above while only maintaining the
> List-Id?. Those lines are extras since we can follow the link below
> to configure our options

The purpose of these header fields can be found in RFC 2369.  As noted
in the abstract of that document, the idea is to provide a formal way
to present that information, so that end-user e-mail software can grab
the info and present buttons, menu itmes, icons, or whathaveyou to the
user for quick access to the associate actions.

Thus, from a standards point-of-view, it is the footer lines that are
redundant, not the List-* headers.

But, since making use of the List-* headers directly is not yet a
widely adopted feature of e-mail software, having the footer lines in
the message still serves a purpose.

If the List-* header fields -really- bother you, you can modify Mailman
or pass the messages through a filter that strips out the List-* headers
that you don't want, or some similar strategy.

- Andrew

  ----------------------------------------------------------------
  Mailman Administrator   -   http://www.tux.org/mailman/listinfo/




From ccalzone at quarry.com  Thu Oct 24 22:28:54 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:28:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <1035490152.5577.58.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <370AAF52-E78F-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

Not exactly.  Mail sent to the mailman lists just seems to disappear 
into a void.  As does any mail generated by Mailman, like when you 
subscribe to the list through the web interface.  Mailman records that 
it tried to send a message to the user in the smtp and bounce logs, but 
/var/log/maillog shows no record of it.

Qmail seems to be working fine otherwise.  The netstat command you 
suggested gives an output exactly like you indicated it would.  Mail 
messages get sent out from that box just fine, and messages in to not 
list addresses get delivered just fine.

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:09 p, Jon Carnes wrote:

> So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail doesn't
> record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?
>
> Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?
>
>   netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>
> If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
>    tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN
>
> If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
> interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, you
> would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the Defaults.py
> file as an example of what to put in there.
>
> Good Luck.




From ccalzone at quarry.com  Thu Oct 24 22:39:50 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 16:39:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <370AAF52-E78F-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
Message-ID: <BE340516-E790-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

Follow up.  I was slightly incorrect in what I said earlier:

E-mails sent TO the list show up in the list archives.  E-mails 
originating FROM Mailman are what appear to be failing.

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:28 p, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:

> Not exactly.  Mail sent to the mailman lists just seems to disappear 
> into a void.  As does any mail generated by Mailman, like when you 
> subscribe to the list through the web interface.  Mailman records that 
> it tried to send a message to the user in the smtp and bounce logs, 
> but /var/log/maillog shows no record of it.
>
> Qmail seems to be working fine otherwise.  The netstat command you 
> suggested gives an output exactly like you indicated it would.  Mail 
> messages get sent out from that box just fine, and messages in to not 
> list addresses get delivered just fine.
>
> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:09 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
>
>> So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail doesn't
>> record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?
>>
>> Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?
>>
>>   netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>>
>> If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
>>    tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN
>>
>> If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
>> interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, you
>> would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the Defaults.py
>> file as an example of what to put in there.
>>
>> Good Luck.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Thu Oct 24 23:03:21 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 17:03:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <BE340516-E790-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
References: <BE340516-E790-11D6-9951-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
Message-ID: <1035493401.5576.63.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Hmmmm, Sounds more like a routing problem then. Still a routing problem
should show some errors in your MTA's log file.

Check out your MTA routing table and make sure that localhost
(127.0.0.1) is allowed to relay.

Good Luck!

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 16:39, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> Follow up.  I was slightly incorrect in what I said earlier:
> 
> E-mails sent TO the list show up in the list archives.  E-mails 
> originating FROM Mailman are what appear to be failing.
> 
> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:28 p, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
> 
> > Not exactly.  Mail sent to the mailman lists just seems to disappear 
> > into a void.  As does any mail generated by Mailman, like when you 
> > subscribe to the list through the web interface.  Mailman records that 
> > it tried to send a message to the user in the smtp and bounce logs, 
> > but /var/log/maillog shows no record of it.
> >
> > Qmail seems to be working fine otherwise.  The netstat command you 
> > suggested gives an output exactly like you indicated it would.  Mail 
> > messages get sent out from that box just fine, and messages in to not 
> > list addresses get delivered just fine.
> >
> > On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:09 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
> >
> >> So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail doesn't
> >> record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?
> >>
> >> Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?
> >>
> >>   netstat -na |grep ":25 "
> >>
> >> If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
> >>    tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN
> >>
> >> If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
> >> interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, you
> >> would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the Defaults.py
> >> file as an example of what to put in there.
> >>
> >> Good Luck.
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives: 
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From den at altern.org  Thu Oct 24 23:19:19 2002
From: den at altern.org (Denis)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 23:19:19 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman & Postix
Message-ID: <1035494359.539.333.camel@collectifs.org>

Hi,

I have a problem with Mailman and postfix.

When i send a message to a adresslist, i have a mail of Postfix who say:
"This is the Postfix program at host xxxx

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations."

...

Someone can explain what i have to do or send me a link to documentation
?

Thanks 
Denis




From laurent.parenteau at tr.cgocable.ca  Fri Oct 25 03:51:27 2002
From: laurent.parenteau at tr.cgocable.ca (Laurent Parenteau)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:51:27 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI error
Message-ID: <3DB8A39F.1030202@tr.cgocable.ca>

Hi,

    I got this error message


  Mailman CGI error!!!

This entry is being stored in your syslog:

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid -1.  (Reconfigure to take -1?)



but when I try to reconfigure mailman (using --with-cgi-gid -1), it says
"configure: error: -1: invalid option; use --help to show usage"

so why did I get that cgi error?




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 25 04:56:14 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 22:56:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI error
In-Reply-To: <3DB8A39F.1030202@tr.cgocable.ca>
References: <3DB8A39F.1030202@tr.cgocable.ca>
Message-ID: <1035514575.5909.66.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Your webserver is not using a GID. In your /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
file - assuming that you are using Apache - set the group ID to 99 (or
nobody). The stop and restart Apache.  That should get rid of the error.

Good Luck

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 21:51, Laurent Parenteau wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>     I got this error message
> 
> 
>   Mailman CGI error!!!
> 
> This entry is being stored in your syslog:
> 
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 99, GOT gid -1.  (Reconfigure to take -1?)
> 
> 
> 
> but when I try to reconfigure mailman (using --with-cgi-gid -1), it says
> "configure: error: -1: invalid option; use --help to show usage"
> 
> so why did I get that cgi error?
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From emmettc at mindpie.com  Fri Oct 25 05:21:19 2002
From: emmettc at mindpie.com (Emmett Culley)
Date: 24 Oct 2002 20:21:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail to lists are rejected
In-Reply-To: <3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com>
References: <1035439181.27315.91.camel@EMMETT1> 
	<3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <1035516089.27321.1392.camel@EMMETT1>

No I didn't.  And when I did I got this in response:

*****

From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON at mindpie.com>
To: emmettc at mindpie.com
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
Date: 24 Oct 2002 20:10:36 +0000

The original message was received at Thu, 24 Oct 2002 20:10:36 GMT
from EMMETT1 [192.168.6.16]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/var/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test1"
    (reason: 2)
    (expanded from: <test1-request at mindpie.com>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 47.  (Reconfigure to take
47?)
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2

*****

I"ll keep looking...

Thanks for the responses,
Emmett

On Wed, 2002-10-23 at 23:02, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
> Emmett Culley wrote:
> 
> > I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
> > unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
> > minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.
> 
>     Did you forget to add the necessary aliases to sendmail?
> 
> --
> H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
>   +--------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
>   IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
>   Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
>   http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.
> 
> 





From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct 25 05:21:03 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:21:03 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] e-mail to lists are rejected
References: <1035439181.27315.91.camel@EMMETT1> 
		<3DB78D05.430FDA4B@pcraft.com> <1035516089.27321.1392.camel@EMMETT1>
Message-ID: <3DB8B89F.273A0833@pcraft.com>

Emmett Culley wrote:

>    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 12, GOT gid 47.  (Reconfigure to take
> 47?)
> 554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 2

    This means you compiled mailman with mail-gid 12, while your system is
really running with mail-gid 47.  You need to reconfigure and recompile mailman.

--
H | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From peter at airborne.org  Fri Oct 25 05:48:53 2002
From: peter at airborne.org (Peter)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:48:53 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
Message-ID: <003801c27bd9$70fddc00$6401a8c0@vic.bigpond.net.au>

Advice request,

does anyone have some HTML code to enable subscribe / unsubscribe directly from a web site into a mailman list?

Thanks,

Peter
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021025/05768a0c/attachment.htm 

From fish at livingsky.net  Fri Oct 25 05:53:24 2002
From: fish at livingsky.net (fish)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:53:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web subscription not working
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAEEJMDEAA.fish@livingsky.net>

Hi

I am an new user, installed Mailman on a Debian server running Exim. I have
finally figured out how to get the proper urls working and being able to get
to the various webpages supplied for list and admins, but when I try to
subscribe a test user from the web interface, I get the following error
message.

---------------
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  pipe to |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
    generated by test-request at livingsky.net
    Child process of address_pipe transport returned 2 from command:
    /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper

The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:

------ pipe to |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
       generated by test-request at livingsky.net ------

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT gid 103.  (Reconfigure to take
103?)


Now, from reading the troubleshooting list at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/install-faq.html, I get that Mailman is
looking for a different gid, but this is Debian and I can't configure
anything when it installs a program. How do I change this so that it will
work? BTW, I can subscribe the address from the admin page, but not from the
general subscription page.



Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca 

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2220 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021024/99487c19/attachment.bin 

From ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com  Fri Oct 25 08:30:52 2002
From: ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com (Ganeshh)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:00:52 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman messages are not delivery to Exim Mailboxes]
Message-ID: <3DB8E51C.6030001@lateralsoftware.com>

Dear Lists

Let me know the reason why my lists mails are not getting delivered to 
its recipients...

i have 102 and odd files (mails) under my qfiles directory..  also i 
dont find an error messages in the error.log file

I am using mailman 2.0.8 and exim 3.35

Please help

Warm Regards
Ganeshh




From admin at whoistesting.com  Fri Oct 25 10:22:22 2002
From: admin at whoistesting.com (Who Is Testing?)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:22:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Unsubscribing: Not subscribed
Message-ID: <E2B59C23-E7F2-11D6-ADC9-0030656420AA@whoistesting.com>

Error Unsubscribing:

*	mail at domain.net -- Not subscribed

Help!

I seem to have a 'stuck' user. My list shows the above error whenever I 
make any changes to the mebership of the list I run. The email address 
in question shows on the Membership List as being subscribed. However no 
mail is sent to that address, and I can't remove it from the list in 
order to resubscribe it properly.

Any suggestions?


TIA


Piers




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Fri Oct 25 13:01:33 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:01:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210241301050.52154-100000@seyyav.pair.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021024173815.03b6e660@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025103608.031017a8@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 18:02 24/10/2002, sean pambianco wrote:
> > >I'll check the logs.  Question, if qrunner got started via cron before the
> > >previous cron start finished could that possible resend the post to the
> > >list again?
> > >
> > >Sean
> >
> > Not likely. I'd expect any qrunner started by cron while another was still
> > running to log 'Could not acquire qrunner lock' in the $prefix/logs/qrunner
> > log and exit.
> >
> > When these problems occur does anything indicative show up in Mailman's
> > post, smtp, smtp-failure or error logs?
>
>So then, at any one time there should only be one instance of qrunner
>running on the server?
>
>I constantly see mulitiple copies of qrunner running on the server.

>Sean

I'm looking at MM 2.0.13 so things may be different with the 2.0.6 you are 
running but not by much.

Only one instance of the cron launched qrunner should be extant at any one 
time.

 From a quick look at the code, that instance may spawn child processes 
although the only case I can see is in the ToUsenet handler.

It isn't obvious to me that this will lead to Mailman sending out multiple 
copies of a message. Have you been able to observe Mailman doing this in 
your MTA logs?




From ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com  Fri Oct 25 14:35:23 2002
From: ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com (Ganeshh)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:05:23 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman2.0.8 qfiles directory loaded with mails not delivered]
Message-ID: <3DB93A8B.6020100@lateralsoftware.com>

Dear All

I have already posted my problem in this list, since its critical for 
me, am posting it once again...

I need your help to solve my problem.

am running 14 lists on my server , for 24 hrs my lists mails are not 
delivering to its subcribers...

i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
growing....

i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...

I need to solve this problem once and for all...
kindly let me know... what do i need to do...

I use Exim as my MTA

Thanks in advance
warm regards
Ganeshh





From jeremyp at pobox.com  Fri Oct 25 15:36:31 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 09:36:31 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI error
In-Reply-To: <1035514575.5909.66.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
References: <3DB8A39F.1030202@tr.cgocable.ca> 
	<1035514575.5909.66.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <1035552991.12162.16.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 22:56, Jon Carnes wrote:
> Your webserver is not using a GID. In your /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
> file - assuming that you are using Apache - set the group ID to 99 (or
> nobody). The stop and restart Apache.  That should get rid of the error.

Check your password /group files and see what GID "nobody" is using on
your system.  On some systems, nobody is UID and GID of -1, which may be
the same as 65535, depending on your system.  This setup can be
confusing; I recommend using a "normal" UID/GID for nobody, which is how
many systems do it.

--Jeremy




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 25 16:03:05 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 10:03:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman CGI error
In-Reply-To: <1035552991.12162.16.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
References: <3DB8A39F.1030202@tr.cgocable.ca> 
	<1035514575.5909.66.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<1035552991.12162.16.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
Message-ID: <1035554586.1637.32.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Hi Jeremy! :-)

Well, actually you can infer from his message that the GID for nobody is
99.  It's why Mailman choose 99 and this is in fact the default setup
for his distro.

BTW: he replied off list that this fixed his problem!

Take care - Jon

PS. I'm gone to New York for the next 10 days and will be electronically
challenged, so I leave the care and feeding of Mailman's tech-support in
your capable hands while I'm away!  See you when I get back.

===
On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 09:36, Jeremy Portzer wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 22:56, Jon Carnes wrote:
> > Your webserver is not using a GID. In your /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf
> > file - assuming that you are using Apache - set the group ID to 99 (or
> > nobody). The stop and restart Apache.  That should get rid of the error.
> 
> Check your password /group files and see what GID "nobody" is using on
> your system.  On some systems, nobody is UID and GID of -1, which may be
> the same as 65535, depending on your system.  This setup can be
> confusing; I recommend using a "normal" UID/GID for nobody, which is how
> many systems do it.
> 
> --Jeremy
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 25 16:07:22 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 10:07:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman2.0.8 qfiles directory loaded with mails
	not delivered]
In-Reply-To: <3DB93A8B.6020100@lateralsoftware.com>
References: <3DB93A8B.6020100@lateralsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1035554843.1637.37.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Ganesh, we need much more info.  Can you dig into your MTA (exim) log
files and tell us what is happening to the mail.  Obviously the mail is
making it into Mailman from Exim, but do you see any errors or warnings
from Mailman attempting to resend that mail out the list addresses?

If not, then you have an smtp connectivity problem between Mailman and
Exim.  We've troubleshoot a lot of those lately:
  netstat -na |grep ":25 "

and look for which interfaces that exim is listening on.  Exim must
accept a connection from localhost (127.0.0.1).

After accepting the connection, Exim must allow relaying from any mail
that is dropped off via localhost.

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
===
On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 08:35, Ganeshh wrote:
> Dear All
> 
> I have already posted my problem in this list, since its critical for 
> me, am posting it once again...
> 
> I need your help to solve my problem.
> 
> am running 14 lists on my server , for 24 hrs my lists mails are not 
> delivering to its subcribers...
> 
> i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
> growing....
> 
> i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
> start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...
> 
> I need to solve this problem once and for all...
> kindly let me know... what do i need to do...
> 
> I use Exim as my MTA
> 
> Thanks in advance
> warm regards
> Ganeshh
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From delilah at seyyav.pair.com  Fri Oct 25 16:12:00 2002
From: delilah at seyyav.pair.com (sean pambianco)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:12:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] duplicate post
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025103608.031017a8@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210251009540.94289-100000@seyyav.pair.com>

> >So then, at any one time there should only be one instance of qrunner
> >running on the server?
> >
> >I constantly see mulitiple copies of qrunner running on the server.
>
> >Sean
>
> I'm looking at MM 2.0.13 so things may be different with the 2.0.6 you are
> running but not by much.
>
> Only one instance of the cron launched qrunner should be extant at any one
> time.
>
>  From a quick look at the code, that instance may spawn child processes
> although the only case I can see is in the ToUsenet handler.
>
> It isn't obvious to me that this will lead to Mailman sending out multiple
> copies of a message. Have you been able to observe Mailman doing this in
> your MTA logs?

>From what I can tell, the post is showing up the MTA logs twice but only
once in the Mailman logs.  But reading the MTA logs is like reading
anonther language.

Sean




From ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com  Fri Oct 25 16:33:52 2002
From: ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com (Ganeshh)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:03:52 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman2.0.8 qfiles directory loaded with mails
 not delivered]
References: <3DB93A8B.6020100@lateralsoftware.com> <1035554843.1637.37.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <3DB95650.3090602@lateralsoftware.com>

my maillog doesnt show warnings or errors...
my netstat output : 
tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64918      
ESTABLISHED
tcp        0      0  <public ip>:25              194.109.218.210:49128   
ESTABLISHED
tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64915      
ESTABLISHED
tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64914      
ESTABLISHED
tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64913      
ESTABLISHED
tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64912      
ESTABLISHED
tcp        1      0  <public ip> :25         209.47.251.19:54069     
CLOSING
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               
LISTEN    

I have two 30M files plus few big ones in the qfiles directory...
the history of my lists was stable for more than 6 months and this is 
the first time...., the traffic oflate is heavy...

whats next to be done?
Warm Regards
Ganeshh


Jon Carnes wrote:

>Ganesh, we need much more info.  Can you dig into your MTA (exim) log
>files and tell us what is happening to the mail.  Obviously the mail is
>making it into Mailman from Exim, but do you see any errors or warnings
>from Mailman attempting to resend that mail out the list addresses?
>
>If not, then you have an smtp connectivity problem between Mailman and
>Exim.  We've troubleshoot a lot of those lately:
>  netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>
>and look for which interfaces that exim is listening on.  Exim must
>accept a connection from localhost (127.0.0.1).
>
>After accepting the connection, Exim must allow relaying from any mail
>that is dropped off via localhost.
>
>Good Luck - Jon Carnes
>===
>On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 08:35, Ganeshh wrote:
>
>>Dear All
>>
>>I have already posted my problem in this list, since its critical for 
>>me, am posting it once again...
>>
>>I need your help to solve my problem.
>>
>>am running 14 lists on my server , for 24 hrs my lists mails are not 
>>delivering to its subcribers...
>>
>>i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
>>growing....
>>
>>i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
>>start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...
>>
>>I need to solve this problem once and for all...
>>kindly let me know... what do i need to do...
>>
>>I use Exim as my MTA
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>>warm regards
>>Ganeshh
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------
>>Mailman-Users mailing list
>>Mailman-Users at python.org
>>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>
>
>
>
>






From jonc at nc.rr.com  Fri Oct 25 16:49:45 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 10:49:45 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman2.0.8 qfiles directory loaded with mails
	not delivered]
In-Reply-To: <3DB953D2.3020403@lateralsoftware.com>
References: <3DB93A8B.6020100@lateralsoftware.com>
	<1035554843.1637.37.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com> 
	<3DB953D2.3020403@lateralsoftware.com>
Message-ID: <1035557386.1637.43.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>

Fortunately for me, I don't use Exim often.  The logs look okay to me,
but I'm not an expert.

I think your suggestion of dumping the large attachments is a good
idea.  Do you have a size restriction on your MTA?

Also, that should show up in your Mailman logs.  Have you looked in your
Mailman logs?  I'll bet they will indicate that Exim is bouncing the
mail due to some reason (such as file too large!).

If dumping the large attachments doesn't work, then try copying the
whole Qfiles directory to some temporary space and then deleting the
waiting qfiles.  Follow-up with a test message.  If it works then there
was something about one of the queued up messages that was blocking. 

Take care and good Luck.

On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 10:23, Ganeshh wrote:
> Dear Jon
> 
> Thanks for your mail.
> 
> Please find the logs below:
> 
> 
> I have logs as above...
> 
> but to delivery completion as normal way
> _
> Normal Logs_
> 
> 2002-10-24 09:25:58 184Z6E-0007WG-00 <= sumithra at naturesoft.net 
> H=(somu.naturesoft.net) [192.168.0.13] P=esmtp
>  S=1320 id=5.1.0.14.0.20021024093839.00ab42b0 at 192.168.0.3
> 2002-10-24 09:25:59 184Z6E-0007WG-00 => | /home/mailman/mail/wrapper 
> post sysadmin <sysadmin at naturesoft.net> D
> =system_aliases T=address_pipe              
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 <= sysadmin-admin at naturesoft.net 
> H=localhost.localdomain (naturesoft.net)
>  [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=2292 
> id=5.1.0.14.0.20021024093839.00ab42b0 at 192.168.0.3
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => sumithra 
> <sumithra at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => bond <sumithra at naturesoft.net> 
> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => natarajan_vp 
> <natarajan_vp at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_deliver
> y
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => ganesh_h 
> <ganesh_h at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => maniezhilan 
> <maniezhilan at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => bamini_s 
> <bamini_s at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => gopinath_r 
> <gopinath_r at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => ganesh_s 
> <ganesh_s at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> 2002-10-24 09:26:06 184Z6M-0007WX-00 => somasekar_s 
> <somasekar_s at naturesoft.net> D=localuser T=local_delivery
> ------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>                                                                                                   
> 
> _exim mail log after Problem struck:_
> 
> /2002-10-24 16:20:28 184fZM-0005cc-00 <= sivakumar_k at naturesoft.net 
> H=(siva) [192.168.0.38] P=smtp S=23068 id=0
> 1a701c27b4d$72f285b0$2600a8c0 at naturesoft.com
> 2002-10-24 16:20:28 184fZM-0005cc-00 => | /home/mailman/mail/wrapper 
> post testing <testing at naturesoft.net> D=s
> ystem_aliases T=address_pipe
> /2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBg-00067v-00 => | /home/mailman/mail/wrapper 
> mailowner embedded <embedded-admin at nature
> soft.net> D=system_aliases T=address_pipe
> 2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBg-00067v-00 Completed
> 2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBh-000686-00 <= mgmtquotes-admin at naturesoft.net 
> H=localhost.localdomain (naturesoft.ne
> t) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=1454
> 2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBg-000680-00 => | /home/mailman/mail/wrapper 
> mailowner resume <resume-admin at naturesoft
> .net> D=system_aliases T=address_pipe
> 2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBg-000680-00 Completed
> 2002-10-24 17:00:05 184gBh-00068G-00 <= denshimedia-admin at naturesoft.net 
> H=localhost.localdomain (naturesoft.n
> et) [127.0.0.1] P=esmtp S=1473
> 2002-10-24 17:00:06 184gBh-000686-00 => |/home/mailman/mail/wrapper 
> mailowner mgmtquotes <mgmtquotes-admin at nat
> uresoft.net> D=system_aliases T=address_pipe
> 2002-10-24 17:00:06 184gBh-000686-00 Completed
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> The output of netstat -na | grep ":25"
> 
> 
> tcp        0      0 66.11.73.100:25         66.218.66.102:13187     
> TIME_WAIT
> tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64918      
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        0      0 61.11.73.100:25         194.109.218.210:49128   
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64915      
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64914      
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64913      
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        0      0 192.168.0.3:25          192.168.0.15:64912      
> ESTABLISHED
> tcp        1     40 61.11.73.100:25         209.47.251.19:54069     CLOSING
> tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               
> LISTEN     
> 
> Exim also accept connection < telnet localhost 25
> Trying 127.0.0.1...
> Connected to localhost.localdomain.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 lateralsoftware.com ESMTP Exim 3.35 #1 Fri, 25 Oct 2002 19:32:33 +0530 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> Note: i have 2 files on 30+ MB of size under my qfiles directory... 
> (mail attachments)
> if i remove them.. will it work...
> my machine is pentium machine with 126 MB RAM
> 
> Please let me know
> Warm Regards
> Ganeshh
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon Carnes wrote:
> 
> >Ganesh, we need much more info.  Can you dig into your MTA (exim) log
> >files and tell us what is happening to the mail.  Obviously the mail is
> >making it into Mailman from Exim, but do you see any errors or warnings
> >from Mailman attempting to resend that mail out the list addresses?
> >
> >If not, then you have an smtp connectivity problem between Mailman and
> >Exim.  We've troubleshoot a lot of those lately:
> >  netstat -na |grep ":25 "
> >
> >and look for which interfaces that exim is listening on.  Exim must
> >accept a connection from localhost (127.0.0.1).
> >
> >After accepting the connection, Exim must allow relaying from any mail
> >that is dropped off via localhost.
> >
> >Good Luck - Jon Carnes
> >===
> >On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 08:35, Ganeshh wrote:
> >
> >>Dear All
> >>
> >>I have already posted my problem in this list, since its critical for 
> >>me, am posting it once again...
> >>
> >>I need your help to solve my problem.
> >>
> >>am running 14 lists on my server , for 24 hrs my lists mails are not 
> >>delivering to its subcribers...
> >>
> >>i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
> >>growing....
> >>
> >>i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
> >>start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...
> >>
> >>I need to solve this problem once and for all...
> >>kindly let me know... what do i need to do...
> >>
> >>I use Exim as my MTA
> >>
> >>Thanks in advance
> >>warm regards
> >>Ganeshh
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>------------------------------------------------------
> >>Mailman-Users mailing list
> >>Mailman-Users at python.org
> >>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> >>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 





From webmaster at evirtualhome.com  Fri Oct 25 17:49:37 2002
From: webmaster at evirtualhome.com (e Virtual Home)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:49:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe/unsubscribe forms in my own webpages
Message-ID: <E1856iP-0003E0-00@megs10.100mwh.com>

Is there a way to subscribe/unsubscribe to a form in my own webpages?




From fish at livingsky.net  Fri Oct 25 18:06:47 2002
From: fish at livingsky.net (fish)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 10:06:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web subscription not working
In-Reply-To: <20021025140600.GA18808@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAEEKKDEAA.fish@livingsky.net>

Thanks Odhiambo

I would do this, but I cannot find any tarballs anywhere which relate to
mailman on my system. Where would I get this, and is it advisable to do so
under the Debian system? (this part addresses to Debian users)

I was checking out the netstat results, as John suggested that someone else
do, and this is what I got

--------
fish:/var/log#  netstat -na |grep ":25 "
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:25              0.0.0.0:*               LISTEN
--------

Being a linux neophyte, this seems to say that nothing is listening on
localhost or 127.0.0.1.

And being curious, I decided to check the passwd file for the user with
pid:uid of 103 and it was the other list program that I was using when I
decided to try mailman (whispering here, "it was Listar") and was wondering
if I should just change the pid:uid of that user to what mailman was looking
for?




Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: Odhiambo Washington [mailto:wash at wananchi.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 8:06 AM
To: fish
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Web subscription not working


* fish <fish at livingsky.net> [20021025 06:54]: wrote:

Hello Fish (for real? ;-))

> The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:
>
> ------ pipe to |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
>        generated by test-request at livingsky.net ------
>
> Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT gid 103.  (Reconfigure to take
> 103?)
>
>
> Now, from reading the troubleshooting list at
> http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/install-faq.html, I get that Mailman
is
> looking for a different gid, but this is Debian and I can't configure
> anything when it installs a program. How do I change this so that it will
> work? BTW, I can subscribe the address from the admin page, but not from
the
> general subscription page.


Why don't you look at where Debian has installed it, grab a tarball,
run
./configure --with-prefix=/existing/path --with-mail-gid=XX --with-cgi-gid=X
X

Then install??

I run FreeBSD so I may be lying to you because I don't know Debian stuff,
but unixwise (using the same version of Mailman that Debian uses) I believe
I am correct ;-)


-Wash

--
Odhiambo Washington   <wash at wananchi.com>  "The box said 'Requires
Wananchi Online Ltd.  www.wananchi.com      Windows 95, NT, or better,'
Tel: +254 2 313985-9  +254 2 313922         so I installed FreeBSD."
GSM: +254 72 743223   +254 733 744121       This sig is McQ!  :-)


Schapiro's Explanation:
	The grass is always greener on the other side -- but that's
because they use more manure.




From wackyvorlon at yahoo.ca  Fri Oct 25 20:32:18 2002
From: wackyvorlon at yahoo.ca (Paul Anderson)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:32:18 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrative Page Problem
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210251228220.2374-100000@ab.hsia.telus.net>

I have installed mailman 2.0.6 onto my Redhat 7.2 system.  I can add and 
list members via the command line, however I can't get into the 
administrative section.  I get the login page, type in the password, and 
then I get the login page again.  Cookies are enabled in my browser, I've 
tried both mozilla from remote and lynx on the affected machine.  Nothing 
is being logged anywhere about this.

You can try for yourself at:

http://www.nawcc-ihc.org/cgi-bin/admin/ihc-test

And the password is irc

I note that a message was in the archives from someone who had the exact 
same problem I'm having, but no one posted a reply:(


-- 
---
Paul Anderson
wackyvorlon at yahoo.ca
http://www.yahoogroups.com/group/victorianmen -- Owner




From ccalzone at quarry.com  Fri Oct 25 20:38:12 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:38:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <1035493401.5576.63.camel@Anncons.nc.rr.com>
Message-ID: <EAC63FE6-E848-11D6-BB04-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

Well, the firewall appears to be allowing connections to port 25 from 
0.0.0.0/0, and /var/log/messages isn't complaining, so it's not that.  
I modified qmail's rcphosts file to add localhost, although that was 
never an issue before.

I did a quick check to discover that if a mail is denied by qmail that 
for some reason it's not logged anywhere by qmail os syslogd or 
splogger.  If I can figure out how to do that, I might get more insight.

On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 05:03 p, Jon Carnes wrote:

> Hmmmm, Sounds more like a routing problem then. Still a routing problem
> should show some errors in your MTA's log file.
>
> Check out your MTA routing table and make sure that localhost
> (127.0.0.1) is allowed to relay.
>
> Good Luck!
>
> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 16:39, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
>> Follow up.  I was slightly incorrect in what I said earlier:
>>
>> E-mails sent TO the list show up in the list archives.  E-mails
>> originating FROM Mailman are what appear to be failing.
>>
>> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:28 p, Christopher Calzonetti 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Not exactly.  Mail sent to the mailman lists just seems to disappear
>>> into a void.  As does any mail generated by Mailman, like when you
>>> subscribe to the list through the web interface.  Mailman records 
>>> that
>>> it tried to send a message to the user in the smtp and bounce logs,
>>> but /var/log/maillog shows no record of it.
>>>
>>> Qmail seems to be working fine otherwise.  The netstat command you
>>> suggested gives an output exactly like you indicated it would.  Mail
>>> messages get sent out from that box just fine, and messages in to not
>>> list addresses get delivered just fine.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:09 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
>>>
>>>> So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail doesn't
>>>> record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?
>>>>
>>>> Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?
>>>>
>>>>   netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>>>>
>>>> If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
>>>>    tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN
>>>>
>>>> If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
>>>> interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, 
>>>> you
>>>> would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the 
>>>> Defaults.py
>>>> file as an example of what to put in there.
>>>>
>>>> Good Luck.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>> Searchable Archives:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From ctgreybeard at snet.net  Fri Oct 25 21:34:21 2002
From: ctgreybeard at snet.net (Bill Waggoner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:34:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Upgrade and move to new machine?
Message-ID: <200210251534.21614.ctgreybeard@snet.net>

I'd like to move my lists (all 2 of them) from one machine to a newer one, and 
at the same time or shortly after, upgrade from 2.0 to 2.1.  If feasible I'd 
also like to move the base directory from /opt/mailman to /usr/local/mailman.

Is there a doc or FAQ that will outline what I need to do?  Or, failing that, 
can someone outline the steps I should take?  I don't think I need detailed 
instructions, but "gotcha's" that I should avoid would be helpful.

Thanks,

Bill Waggoner



From support at iquest.ucsb.edu  Fri Oct 25 21:44:05 2002
From: support at iquest.ucsb.edu (Support)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 12:44:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
Message-ID: <1035575045.3524.19.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>

Hi,

Im running mailman-2.0.13, RH 7.2, Sendmail, apache1.3.26, UW-IMAP,
python-1.5.2

I created a test list and tried subscribing via the web interface. I get
an email requesting that I reply as confirmation. I reply but don't get
a confirmation email back and my email is not listed as a member.  I
look at the mailman logs and just see 'pending' for my email. I look at
the /var/log/maillog and I see this

###---------The subscribe request

Oct 25 12:15:11 correo sendmail[25608]: g9PJF7e25608:
from=<testlist-admin at MYMAIL_SERVER>, size=1820, class=-60, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<20021025191507.25606.34268.Mailman at MYMAIL_SERVER>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
Oct 25 12:15:11 correo sendmail[25608]: g9PJF7e25608:
to=<SUBSCRIBER_EMAIL ADDRESS>, delay=00:00:00, mailer=esmtp, pri=139820,
stat=queued


###------The email is sent

Oct 25 12:15:19 correo sendmail[25610]: g9PJF7e25608:
to=<SUBSCRIBER_EMAIL ADDRESS>, delay=00:00:08, xdelay=00:00:03,
mailer=esmtp, pri=229820, relay=mailin-02.mx.netscape.net.
[205.188.158.57], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (OK)

###------My reply 

Oct 25 12:16:32 correo sendmail[25616]: g9PJGRe25616:
from=<SUBSCRIBER_EMAIL ADDRESS>, size=1858, class=0, nrcpts=1,
msgid=<1B4F5DA2.2A09D3E4.001611A6 at netscape.net>, proto=ESMTP,
daemon=MTA, relay=imo-r04.mx.aol.com [152.163.225.100]

###----My reply delivered (stat=Sent?)

Oct 25 12:16:55 correo sendmail[25623]: g9PJGRe25616:
to="|/home/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd testlist",
ctladdr=<testlist-request at MYMAIL_SERVER> (8/0), delay=00:00:24,
xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=121858, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent

###-----


It says that the reply was recieved but the actual subscription never
takes place. Can anyone shed some light here?

thanx,







From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct 25 21:47:47 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:47:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
References: <1035575045.3524.19.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <3DB99FE3.9C7AF032@pcraft.com>

Support wrote:

> I created a test list and tried subscribing via the web interface. I get
> an email requesting that I reply as confirmation. I reply but don't get
> a confirmation email back and my email is not listed as a member.

    Did you install the crontab?

--
W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 25 22:15:06 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:15:06 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speeding up archiver in mailman 2.1b3?
References: <176920000.1035416106@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <15801.42570.962199.334290@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "ADC" == Andrew D Clark <andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> writes:

    ADC> Since I'm hopelessly backlogged in my archive queue (1644
    ADC> files), does anyone have any suggestions for speeding up
    ADC> archiving?  The qrunner process is certainly eating up CPU
    ADC> and memory, but is only archiving about 1 msg per minute.
    ADC> All the other queues move at a decent pace.

Here's a thought, if you're interested in hacking some code.

In Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py, ArchiveMail() we create a new
HyperArchive instance each time we want to add a new message to the
archive.  That in turn creates a new HyperDatabase instance, which in
turn un-marshals all the state of the archiver.

I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense if the archiver stored the
HyperArchive instance on self and re-used it.  That might save a lot
of i/o, although I don't know if it would help much with overall
performance, and I don't know if Pipermail would still operate
correctly.  It's worth a shot.

Another idea would to change the scheme the Pipermail archiver used
from a one-file-per-message scheme to a Unix mailbox scheme.  The
basic idea would be for ToArchive.py to append the message to a Unix
mbox, and then have ArchRunner.py slurp a multi-message mbox into the
archive instead of doing one message at a time.

I don't have time to play with these ideas, so I'm cc'ing
mailman-developers, in case anyone wants to do some hacking and
profiling.

-Barry



From support at iquest.ucsb.edu  Fri Oct 25 22:19:13 2002
From: support at iquest.ucsb.edu (Support)
Date: 25 Oct 2002 13:19:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
In-Reply-To: <3DB99FE3.9C7AF032@pcraft.com>
References: <1035575045.3524.19.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
	 <3DB99FE3.9C7AF032@pcraft.com>
Message-ID: <1035577153.3518.29.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>

Ok, I think that worked.

I noticed that adding the cron job was IMPERATIVE but I never thought
that it would hinder subscriptions. It says YOU'LL BE SORRY IF YOU DON'T
which I took as not completely necessary.

DEVELOPERS:  Why don't you just add the cron jobs as a NECESSARY part of
the installation. I've noticed that a few other people may have had
similar problems. Or in FAQ add "Syslog says subscription email sent
but, I'm not added to the list, why?" Answer "Install the cron job" 

thanx for you help.



On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 12:47, Ashley M. Kirchner wrote:
> Support wrote:
> 
> > I created a test list and tried subscribing via the web interface. I get
> > an email requesting that I reply as confirmation. I reply but don't get
> > a confirmation email back and my email is not listed as a member.
> 
>     Did you install the crontab?
> 
> --
> W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
>   +--------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
>   IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
>   Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
>   http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.





From andrew.clark at ucsb.edu  Fri Oct 25 22:28:09 2002
From: andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (Andrew D. Clark)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 13:28:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] speeding up archiver in mailman 2.1b3?
In-Reply-To: <15801.42570.962199.334290@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <176920000.1035416106@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
 <15801.42570.962199.334290@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <6260000.1035577689@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>

I've actually got over 3000 files in the archive queue now :)
But, setting ARCHIVE_TO_MBOX = 1 (skipping pipermail archiving), seems to 
speed things up vastly (at least, running qrunner -r Arch -o actually 
processes one message and takes less than 1 second (as opposed to over 5 
minutes)).  Running it right now without -o (endless loop) and it's 
chugging along at a wonderful pace.  Just finished in about 10 seconds.  So 
there ya go.  It's definately pipermail archiving that's the very expensive 
operation.
I can always run bin/arch to build the pipermail archive after the fact.  I 
wanted to look into using mhonarc anyhow..
I'll look into fixing mailman too ;)
Thanks very much for your help.

--
Andrew Clark
Campus Network Programmer
Office of Information Technology
University of California, Santa Barbara
andrew.clark at ucsb.edu (805) 893-5311

--On Friday, October 25, 2002 16:15:06 -0400 "Barry A. Warsaw" 
<barry at python.org> wrote:

>
>>>>>> "ADC" == Andrew D Clark <andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> writes:
>
>     ADC> Since I'm hopelessly backlogged in my archive queue (1644
>     ADC> files), does anyone have any suggestions for speeding up
>     ADC> archiving?  The qrunner process is certainly eating up CPU
>     ADC> and memory, but is only archiving about 1 msg per minute.
>     ADC> All the other queues move at a decent pace.
>
> Here's a thought, if you're interested in hacking some code.
>
> In Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py, ArchiveMail() we create a new
> HyperArchive instance each time we want to add a new message to the
> archive.  That in turn creates a new HyperDatabase instance, which in
> turn un-marshals all the state of the archiver.
>
> I wonder if it wouldn't make more sense if the archiver stored the
> HyperArchive instance on self and re-used it.  That might save a lot
> of i/o, although I don't know if it would help much with overall
> performance, and I don't know if Pipermail would still operate
> correctly.  It's worth a shot.
>
> Another idea would to change the scheme the Pipermail archiver used
> from a one-file-per-message scheme to a Unix mailbox scheme.  The
> basic idea would be for ToArchive.py to append the message to a Unix
> mbox, and then have ArchRunner.py slurp a multi-message mbox into the
> archive instead of doing one message at a time.
>
> I don't have time to play with these ideas, so I'm cc'ing
> mailman-developers, in case anyone wants to do some hacking and
> profiling.
>
> -Barry






From raul at asmodean.net  Fri Oct 25 22:32:56 2002
From: raul at asmodean.net (Raul A. Gallegos)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 15:32:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
In-Reply-To: <1035577153.3518.29.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
References: <1035575045.3524.19.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu> <3DB99FE3.9C7AF032@pcraft.com> <1035577153.3518.29.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <20021025203255.GN1649@asmodean.net>

Support said the following on Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 01:19:13PM -0700:
> Ok, I think that worked.
> 
> I noticed that adding the cron job was IMPERATIVE but I never thought
> that it would hinder subscriptions. It says YOU'LL BE SORRY IF YOU DON'T
> which I took as not completely necessary.

Hmm, that kind of message I take as, "If you don't do it you will be 
screwed, so you better do it." *smile*.

> DEVELOPERS:  Why don't you just add the cron jobs as a NECESSARY part of
> the installation. I've noticed that a few other people may have had
> similar problems. Or in FAQ add "Syslog says subscription email sent
> but, I'm not added to the list, why?" Answer "Install the cron job" 

No, no, no!!!  I don't want install scripts messing with my crontabs, 
I'd rather set them up myself.  What if you have a special palace to put 
them in or want to tweak the times.?


-- 
Ever wonder if alternate worlds exist besides our own?  Join the 
parallel-worlds mailing list to discuss this, and similar topics.  click
http://www.asmodean.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/parallel-worlds
Raul A. Gallegos http://www.asmodean.net/contact.html



From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 25 22:34:56 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:34:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Official Mailman Logo in EPS format
References: <IBEKKNHHNCEOJEKPKPAFIEOMCFAA.bhorton@psdservices.com>
Message-ID: <15801.43760.957689.391314@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "BH" == Bob Horton <bhorton at psdservices.com> writes:

    BH> I am involved in an Open Source Expo and we would like to put
    BH> a large version (ie about 10 x 20 inches) of the Mailman logo
    BH> on the back of a booth.

    BH> Where would I go to find a version in EPS format that could be
    BH> used?

Bob, you're welcome to take the current Mailman logos and do anything
you want with them.  I'm not a graphics guy so I've no clue how to
convert them to EPS, but if someone does it, please also donate it
back to us so I can add it to the distro.

-Barry



From ccalzone at quarry.com  Fri Oct 25 22:22:54 2002
From: ccalzone at quarry.com (Christopher Calzonetti)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:22:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Not talking to Qmail?
In-Reply-To: <EAC63FE6-E848-11D6-BB04-000393B657AE@quarry.com>
Message-ID: <8B3232A8-E857-11D6-A787-000393B657AE@quarry.com>

It looks like the problem is indeed with Qmail.  I finally got the 
telnet client installed on that box.  (Don't ask me why it wasn't 
installed initially, but there ya go.)  Telnetting to localhost 25 
allowed me to verify that for whatever reason, mail being listed as 
from localhost or the actual machine name wasn't getting delivered to 
any machine that wasn't itself for some reason.  I'll track this down 
and see if I can't solve it.

Thanks for your help.

On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 02:38 p, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:

> Well, the firewall appears to be allowing connections to port 25 from 
> 0.0.0.0/0, and /var/log/messages isn't complaining, so it's not that.  
> I modified qmail's rcphosts file to add localhost, although that was 
> never an issue before.
>
> I did a quick check to discover that if a mail is denied by qmail that 
> for some reason it's not logged anywhere by qmail os syslogd or 
> splogger.  If I can figure out how to do that, I might get more 
> insight.
>
> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 05:03 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
>
>> Hmmmm, Sounds more like a routing problem then. Still a routing 
>> problem
>> should show some errors in your MTA's log file.
>>
>> Check out your MTA routing table and make sure that localhost
>> (127.0.0.1) is allowed to relay.
>>
>> Good Luck!
>>
>> On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 16:39, Christopher Calzonetti wrote:
>>> Follow up.  I was slightly incorrect in what I said earlier:
>>>
>>> E-mails sent TO the list show up in the list archives.  E-mails
>>> originating FROM Mailman are what appear to be failing.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:28 p, Christopher Calzonetti 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Not exactly.  Mail sent to the mailman lists just seems to disappear
>>>> into a void.  As does any mail generated by Mailman, like when you
>>>> subscribe to the list through the web interface.  Mailman records 
>>>> that
>>>> it tried to send a message to the user in the smtp and bounce logs,
>>>> but /var/log/maillog shows no record of it.
>>>>
>>>> Qmail seems to be working fine otherwise.  The netstat command you
>>>> suggested gives an output exactly like you indicated it would.  Mail
>>>> messages get sent out from that box just fine, and messages in to 
>>>> not
>>>> list addresses get delivered just fine.
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, October 24, 2002, at 04:09 p, Jon Carnes wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So all the mail sent to mailman lists is bouncing? but qmail 
>>>>> doesn't
>>>>> record any attempt by mailman to submit the messages?
>>>>>
>>>>> Is Qmail listening on the localhost (127.0.0.1) interface?
>>>>>
>>>>>   netstat -na |grep ":25 "
>>>>>
>>>>> If you see a line like the one below, then that is okay:
>>>>>    tcp     0     0 0.0.0.0:25      0.0.0.0:*       LISTEN
>>>>>
>>>>> If not, then Qmail may not be accepting mail sent to the local host
>>>>> interface.  This is the default used by Mailman.  To change this, 
>>>>> you
>>>>> would have to edit ~mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py and use the 
>>>>> Defaults.py
>>>>> file as an example of what to put in there.
>>>>>
>>>>> Good Luck.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>>>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>>> Searchable Archives:
>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------
>>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>>> Searchable Archives: 
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>




From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 25 22:35:40 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:35:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CVS
References: <3DB5A2E3.83717986@fransson.se>
Message-ID: <15801.43804.668637.502374@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "JF" == Johan Fransson <johan at fransson.se> writes:

    JF> I wonder how I can get the latest CVS-version of mailman.  I
    JF> have not been able to find any repository adress on your site?

See http://sf.net/projects and look under the CVS link.

-Barry



From barry at python.org  Fri Oct 25 22:46:20 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 16:46:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Official Mailman Logo in EPS format
References: <15801.43760.957689.391314@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<IBEKKNHHNCEOJEKPKPAFGEBECHAA.bhorton@psdservices.com>
Message-ID: <15801.44444.35802.222197@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "BH" == Bob Horton <bhorton at psdservices.com> writes:

    BH> How very Open Source of an answer!

:)

    BH> Of course.

    BH> In fact I'm almost inclined to do it just because ... but
    BH> we'll see if I have time.

Cool.  Now, if you were looking to put together an open source
soundtrack, I could definitely give you an mp3 of The Theme from
Mailman (The Mailman Never Delivers Twice).  It rocks!

    BH> Thanks for getting back to me.

No problem.
-Barry



From ashley at pcraft.com  Fri Oct 25 22:46:46 2002
From: ashley at pcraft.com (Ashley M. Kirchner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:46:46 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Official Mailman Logo in EPS format
References: <IBEKKNHHNCEOJEKPKPAFIEOMCFAA.bhorton@psdservices.com>
Message-ID: <3DB9ADB6.6C532CD3@pcraft.com>

Bob Horton wrote:

> I am involved in an Open Source Expo and we would like to put a large
> version (ie about 10 x 20 inches) of the Mailman logo on the back of a
> booth.
>
> Where would I go to find a version in EPS format that could be used?

    The problem is that we don't have any large enough file to use for such
print.  All we have are these small jpg logos - at least, those are the only
ones I've ever seen.  I can easily open up the large logo (at list.org) and save
it out as an EPS, however printing it at such large size will only yield a
rather bad, pixelated image.  Not something you'd want to use on a booth.

--
W | I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere.
  +--------------------------------------------------------------------
  Ashley M. Kirchner <mailto:ashley at pcraft.com>   .   303.442.6410 x130
  IT Director / SysAdmin / WebSmith             .     800.441.3873 x130
  Photo Craft Laboratories, Inc.            .     3550 Arapahoe Ave. #6
  http://www.pcraft.com ..... .  .    .       Boulder, CO 80303, U.S.A.






From ctgreybeard at snet.net  Sat Oct 26 00:40:25 2002
From: ctgreybeard at snet.net (Bill Waggoner)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:40:25 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists?
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org>

I've installed mailman 2.0.13 fresh and configure everything as correctly 
as I can tell.  I have been running mailman on another system for a while 
so I am fairly familiar with it.

When I create my first list, "test".  It doesn't show up on the listinfo 
page but I can get to the admin page and the listinfo/test page.  It also 
shows up on the /admin page and I can manage it just fine.

Ideas?

Bill




From barry at python.org  Sat Oct 26 00:43:11 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:43:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman 2.1b3 qrunner performance (backlog)
References: <97750000.1034878636@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
	<15794.3352.673522.639552@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<45860000.1035312808@modulus.oit.ucsb.edu>
Message-ID: <15801.51455.409049.283200@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "ADC" == Andrew D Clark <andrew.clark at ucsb.edu> writes:

    ADC> So, if I understand this correctly, if ArchRunner is the
    ADC> first named qrunner (the default), it will have to complete
    ADC> its run before an other qrunner will be able to process their
    ADC> queues.  Is this correct?

Not exactly.  You're forgetting that mailmanctl is the usual way to
start all the qrunners going, and it forks a separate process for each
queue.  It actually invokes bin/qrunner with a separate -r option each
time.  So in normal operation, they do all run in parallel.
    
    ADC> It seems a little backwards, since I'd guess that archives
    ADC> are usually the lowest priority queue.  Can this ordering be
    ADC> changed by altering the QRUNNERS = [] array?  So, the
    ADC> qrunners _aren't_ really executing in parallel?

Since they are running parallel, it doesn't make sense to change the
order, but what you /can/ do is change the SLEEPTIME for ArchRunner so
that it doesn't try to run once per minute.  Currently you need to add
something like

    SLEEPTIME = mm_cfg.minutes(5)

just under the "class ArchRunner" in ArchRunner.py to change this
though.

-Barry



From indira at indira.net  Sat Oct 26 02:39:49 2002
From: indira at indira.net (Indira)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 20:39:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subject: private archives
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0210252038180.29886-100000@durga.theundergroundcity.com>

hello,
I installed mailman-2.0.12 . I'm running netbsd-1.6.
Everything seems to be working fine except that all the archives are
public.

I checked the cgi-bin permissions and it not owned by mailman.

Here is the section of my httpd.conf that concerns mailman:
<IfModule mod_alias.c>
    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Alias /pipermail/ "/var/db/mailman/archives/public/"
    Alias /mailman-icons/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/icons/"
</IfModule>

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
    Options Indexes Includes MultiViews SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/icons">
        Options none
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/var/db/mailman/archives/public/">
    Options SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

Any suggestions?

Indira







From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Oct 26 03:57:24 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:57:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
In-Reply-To: <20021025203255.GN1649@asmodean.net>
Message-ID: <45CDFDC5-E886-11D6-B383-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>

On Friday, October 25, 2002, at 01:32  PM, Raul A. Gallegos wrote:

>> that it would hinder subscriptions. It says YOU'LL BE SORRY IF YOU 
>> DON'T
>> which I took as not completely necessary.
>
> Hmm, that kind of message I take as, "If you don't do it you will be
> screwed, so you better do it." *smile*.

I guess we need to change the message to "do this, or we'll hunt you 
down and hurt your dog".

>> DEVELOPERS:  Why don't you just add the cron jobs as a NECESSARY part 
>> of
>> the installation.

>
> No, no, no!!!  I don't want install scripts messing with my crontabs,
> I'd rather set them up myself.  What if you have a special palace to 
> put
> them in or want to tweak the times.?

crontab editing isn't really standardized, either, and it's a real 
b-tch to figure out if the cron entries are already there, or have been 
installed and customized, or....

this is not something I think should be automated. Too many ways to 
make life much worse. And given how often we run into "I thought it was 
optional" (as opposed to "read the instructions? why?'), I'm just not 
convinced it's broken.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.




From markgill at GreatBooks.Org  Sat Oct 26 16:01:52 2002
From: markgill at GreatBooks.Org (Mark Gillingham)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:01:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bogus archive_directory
Message-ID: <sdba5a11.051@GBF_2.greatbooks.org>

An archive file became corrupt (I think) and now I get the follow
error:

List college has a bogus archive_directory:
/var/mailman/archives/private/college

This directory appears to be empty or broken (I cannot open it). If I
rename this directory will it recreate itself?

Mark



From tph3 at cornell.edu  Sat Oct 26 17:54:41 2002
From: tph3 at cornell.edu (Tom Hanna)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:54:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Netscape 7 (WIN) & Admin Requests
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021026111159.035c5428@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>

Anybody else have a problem with Netscape 7 (WIN) as an interface to 
mailman administrative actions?  I do!  I set my browser prefs to "accept 
all cookies" and Mailman simply does not respond as if it is able to set 
cookies for my admin session, and does not accept any admin changes..

Process: in Net7 (WIN)
-Set edit>prefs>privacy & security>cookies to "accept all cookies"
-Login at foo.com/mailman/admin/listname
-On the listname main admin page, click on "privacy options"
**This takes me back to the login prompt, with a notification: "From this 
point on, you must have cookies enabled in your browser, otherwise no 
administrative changes will take effect."
-Login again
**This takes me into the "privacy options" page I was seeking (something 
was accepted!)
-Add item to "Addresses of members accepted for posting..."
-Click "Submit All Data"
**This takes me back to the login prompt, with the "cookies notification"
-Login again
**This takes me to the "Privacy Options" page -- where I find that the 
change did not take!
-Make the same change again
****This takes me back to the login prompt, with the "cookies notification"
-Login again
**This takes me to the "Privacy Options" page -- where I find that the 
change did not take!
...........................etc
**All other clickable items (including explanatory texts) return me to the 
login prompt with the cookies warning .....
-------------
NOTE: When I switch browsers to Net4.0 (!!), Mailman's admin interface 
works just fine.




From barry at python.org  Sat Oct 26 19:17:05 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:17:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1 beta 4
Message-ID: <15802.52753.139705.927733@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

I've released Mailman 2.1 beta 4; see below for a list of changes
since version 2.1 beta 2.  There have been tons of bug fixes, added
support for Swedish, and some minor new features.

Remember that discussions about version 2.1 are still preferred on
mailman-developers.  It's also not a bad idea to follow the cvs
checkins if you're using 2.1b4.  I plan on moving the remaining
Mailman discussion lists (mailman-users, mailman-announce,
mailman-i18n, mailman-docs, and mailman-checkins) over to the new
version asap.

I'm also hoping that this will be the last beta release.  I've gotten
tons of great feedback since 2.1b3, and there are still a bunch of
mostly minor bugs to fix, but it's great to see more and more people
testing and deploying the new version.  I think we're getting really
close.

Enjoy,
-Barry

-------------------- snip snip --------------------
2.1 beta 4 (26-Oct-2002)

    The usual assortment of bug fixes and language updates, some u/i
    tweaks, as well as the following:

    - Configuring / building / installing
        o Tightened up some configure checks; it will now bark loudly
          if you don't have the Python distutils package available
          (some Linux distros only include distutils in their "devel"
          packages).

        o Mailman's username/group security assertions are now done by
          symbolic name instead of numeric id.  This provides a level
          of indirection that makes it much easier to move or package
          Mailman.  --with-mail-gid and --with-cgi-gid are retained,
          but they control the group names used instead.

    - Command line scripts
        o A new script, bin/transcheck that language teams can use to
          check their .po files.

        o bin/list_members grew a --fullnames/-f option to print the
          full names along with the addresses.

        o cron/senddigests grew --help/-h and --listname/-l options.

        o bin/fix_url.py grew some command line options to support moving
          a list to a specific virtual domain.

    - Pipermail / archiving
        o Reworked the directory layout for archive attachments to be
          less susceptible to inode overload.  Attachments are now
          placed in

          archives/private/<listname>/attachments/<YYYYMMDD>/<msgidhash>

        o Internationalization support in the archiver has been improved.

    - Internationalization
        o New languages: Swedish.

    - Mail handling
        o Content filtering now has a pass_mime_type variable, which
          is a whitelist of MIME types to allow in postings.  See the
          details of the variable in the Content Filtering category
          for more information.

        o If a member has enabled their DontReceiveDuplicates option,
          we'll also strip their addresses from the Cc headers in the
          copy of the message sent to the list.  This helps keep the
          Cc lines from growing astronomically.

        o Bounce messages are now forwarded to the list administrators
          both if they are unrecognized, and if no list member's
          address could be extracted.

        o Content filtering now has a filter_action variable which
          controls what happens when a message matches the content
          filter rules.  The default is still to discard the message.

        o When searching for an Approve/Approved header, the first
          non-whitespace line of the body of the message is also
          checked, if the body has a MIME type of text/plain.

        o If a list is personalized, and the list's posting address is
          not included in a Reply-To header, the posting address is
          copied into a Cc header, otherwise there was no (easy) way a
          recipient could reply back to the list.

        o Added a MS Exchange bounce recognizer.

        o New configuration variable news_moderation which allows the
          mail->news gateway to properly post to moderated newsgroups.

        o Messages sent to a list's owners now comes from the site
          list to prevent mail loops when list owners or moderators
          having bouncing addresses.

    - Miscellaneous
        o mailanctl prevents runaway restarts by imposing a maximum
          restart value (defaulting to 10) for restarting the
          qrunners.  If you hit this limit, do "mailmanctl stop"
          followed by "mailmanctl start".

        o The Membership Management page's search feature now includes
          searching on members real names.

        o The start of a manual for list administrators is given in
          Python HOWTO format (LaTeX).  It's in doc/mailman-admin.tex
          but it still needs lots of fleshing out.

        o More protections against creating a list with an invalid name.



From aparajita at aparajitaworld.com  Sat Oct 26 20:35:14 2002
From: aparajita at aparajitaworld.com (Aparajita Fishman)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:35:14 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bin/arch not working
Message-ID: <AAC66D18-E911-11D6-B22B-00039375AFF0@aparajitaworld.com>

I run bin/arch as recommended in the documentation, but then when I go 
to my list's archive page it says there are no archives. Any 
suggestions?

Regards,

    Aparajita
    Victory-Heart Productions
    aparajita at aparajitaworld.com
    www.aparajitaworld.com




From aparajita at aparajitaworld.com  Sat Oct 26 20:39:42 2002
From: aparajita at aparajitaworld.com (Aparajita Fishman)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 14:39:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't receive mail
Message-ID: <4AAC2380-E912-11D6-B22B-00039375AFF0@aparajitaworld.com>

I am subscribed to my list under two accounts in the same domain as 
Mailman, and neither one receives my posts to the list. Looking in the 
bounce log, it seems one of the accounts is bouncing because of a 
timeout. Yet I always receive administrative messages from the list, 
which go to the same account that is bouncing for regular posting.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

    Aparajita
    Victory-Heart Productions
    aparajita at aparajitaworld.com
    www.aparajitaworld.com




From jared at synapseglobal.com  Sat Oct 26 20:42:29 2002
From: jared at synapseglobal.com (jared sanders)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 11:42:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I have the same problem with the list not sending mail..but
 getting confirmations...
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021026114104.00a0b350@k2.synapseglobal.com>

When a user signs up to the list they get a confirmation of the request, 
also  administrative emails go through.  But the posts to the lists dont, 
i've checked the error logs...and i see nothing, there is nothing sitting 
int he qfiles dir, and the mailman user had its own cronjobs setup.  I'm 
not sure exactly what to do...any help would be great
thanks.

Jared




From jeremyp at pobox.com  Sat Oct 26 21:21:12 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 26 Oct 2002 15:21:12 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED Mailman 2.1 beta 4
In-Reply-To: <15802.52753.139705.927733@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <15802.52753.139705.927733@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <1035660099.4370.1.camel@silverstar>

On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 13:17, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:
>         o Mailman's username/group security assertions are now done by
>           symbolic name instead of numeric id.  This provides a level
>           of indirection that makes it much easier to move or package
>           Mailman.  --with-mail-gid and --with-cgi-gid are retained,
>           but they control the group names used instead.

Thanks for this change!  This should hopefully clear up one of the most
common problems on this list... :-)

--Jeremy




From aparajita at aparajitaworld.com  Sat Oct 26 21:11:39 2002
From: aparajita at aparajitaworld.com (Aparajita Fishman)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 15:11:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I have the same problem with the list not sending mail..but getting confirmations...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021026114104.00a0b350@k2.synapseglobal.com>
Message-ID: <C18DEA52-E916-11D6-B22B-00039375AFF0@aparajitaworld.com>

> When a user signs up to the list they get a confirmation of the 
> request, also  administrative emails go through.  But the posts to the 
> lists dont, i've checked the error logs...and i see nothing, there is 
> nothing sitting int he qfiles dir, and the mailman user had its own 
> cronjobs setup.

It gets wierder...my admin account is aparajita at aparajitaworld.com. I 
receive admin messages there no problem. I subscribed under that 
account name and set my personal options to receive a receipt when I 
post. I posted and received a receipt from Mailman, but not the actual 
message. Looking at the bounce log it said it had bounced.

Help!

Regards,

    Aparajita
    Victory-Heart Productions
    aparajita at aparajitaworld.com
    www.aparajitaworld.com




From narnett at mccmedia.com  Sat Oct 26 22:35:35 2002
From: narnett at mccmedia.com (Nick Arnett)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:35:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] inetd doesn't start mailman...?
Message-ID: <PHEDLIMPMIAGAEPEFBGCAEOADIAA.narnett@mccmedia.com>

I'm using RedHat 7.1 and Mailman 2.1b2... and although I appear to have
everything configured properly for inetd to start Mailman, it doesn't.
Linuxconf also reports that it thinks Mailman isn't running, when it
actually is, and manages to stop it when it tries to restart it.  I'm afraid
I don't know enough about this area to know where to look for the problem.
Suggestions?

Nick

--
Nick Arnett
Phone/fax: (408) 904-7198
narnett at mccmedia.com





From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Sat Oct 26 22:52:37 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 13:52:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] rejecting non-subscriber postings
References: <200210191837.g9JIbB205870@agora.fsl.cs.sunysb.edu>
Message-ID: <3DBB0095.A2CC3291@whidbey.com>

On my lists I probably have a two to one ratio of spam or virus postings to
legitimate messages. The legitimate postings come entirely from users who either
have multiple addresses or slight variations of their address, and I really don't
feel like throwing them away. Mailman 2.1 handles this a little differently, I'm
not yet sure if I like it better or not. But if you just refrain from checking the
held postings every time you get notice of one the time it takes will drop
substantially. Most of the time I can tell the difference really quickly.

I will say (Attn: Barry) that I would like it to be more clear on that page *why*
the messages are held. Now they all say "Post to moderated list" and tell the
sender that the message was "deemed inappropriate by the moderator." (Note that
although I have quoted these strings, I am going from memory and they may only be
paraphrased.)

Van

Erez Zadok wrote:

> In message <001201c27785$f6bc81a0$020a0a0a at ALFA>, "Mike Burton" writes:
> > Hi Erez,
> >
> > Set your list posting to members only under the Privacy section.  That'll do
> > exactly what you are asking for.
> >
> > Take care,
> > Mike
>
> Mike, I don't think that's what I'm looking for.  I already set
> member_posting_only to "Yes" but it doesn't solve my problem entirely.  If
> you're not a list member, your postings are held for approval.  I don't want
> non-subscriber postings held anywhere.  I want such postings discarded
> immediately, after bouncing back a note to the sender saying that they must
> subscribe first to post to this list.
>
> Erez.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------





From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sun Oct 27 00:30:30 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:30:30 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org>
Message-ID: <34586.192.168.1.2.1035671430.squirrel@_default_>

I had that problem too. The thing was so easy! Check you have written the
right name of your site in your config file. In my case I had put
www.mydomain.com, then I change it to just mydomain.com and it worked!

> I've installed mailman 2.0.13 fresh and configure everything as
> correctly  as I can tell.  I have been running mailman on another system
> for a while  so I am fairly familiar with it.
>
> When I create my first list, "test".  It doesn't show up on the listinfo
>  page but I can get to the admin page and the listinfo/test page.  It
> also  shows up on the /admin page and I can manage it just fine.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Bill
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sun Oct 27 00:32:48 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:32:48 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org>
Message-ID: <34600.192.168.1.2.1035671568.squirrel@_default_>

Check also the link pointing to your listinfo page, I had
www.mydomain.com, so I had to change it too.

Good Luck

> I've installed mailman 2.0.13 fresh and configure everything as
> correctly  as I can tell.  I have been running mailman on another system
> for a while  so I am fairly familiar with it.
>
> When I create my first list, "test".  It doesn't show up on the listinfo
>  page but I can get to the admin page and the listinfo/test page.  It
> also  shows up on the /admin page and I can manage it just fine.
>
> Ideas?
>
> Bill
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sun Oct 27 00:36:23 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:36:23 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I have the same problem with the list not sending mail..but getting confirmations...
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021026114104.00a0b350@k2.synapseglobal.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021026114104.00a0b350@k2.synapseglobal.com>
Message-ID: <34613.192.168.1.2.1035671783.squirrel@_default_>

You have that problem with all of your list suscribers, or just with a few
of them. In the first case, it may be as simple as you have not add the
proper lines to your aliases file.

Be more specific and maybe somebody can help you :-)


> When a user signs up to the list they get a confirmation of the request,
>  also  administrative emails go through.  But the posts to the lists
> dont,  i've checked the error logs...and i see nothing, there is nothing
> sitting  int he qfiles dir, and the mailman user had its own cronjobs
> setup.  I'm  not sure exactly what to do...any help would be great
> thanks.
>
> Jared
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx  Sun Oct 27 00:45:12 2002
From: asbaeza at catsanet.com.mx (Armando Soto Baeza)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 16:45:12 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't subscribe via web
In-Reply-To: <20021025203255.GN1649@asmodean.net>
References: <1035575045.3524.19.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
        <3DB99FE3.9C7AF032@pcraft.com>
        <1035577153.3518.29.camel@chirpy-boy.iquest.ucsb.edu>
        <20021025203255.GN1649@asmodean.net>
Message-ID: <34644.192.168.1.2.1035672312.squirrel@_default_>

OK. It is not my list, but WHY DO NOT YOU READ THE DOCUMENTATION BEFORE
INSTALLING? I am new to mailman and had no problems with it (well just a
few little, subtile ones). Maybe the message coul be YOU'LL BE REALLY VERY
SORRY IF YOU DON'T. do you think it were enough?

> Support said the following on Fri, Oct 25, 2002 at 01:19:13PM -0700:
>> Ok, I think that worked.
>>
>> I noticed that adding the cron job was IMPERATIVE but I never thought
>> that it would hinder subscriptions. It says YOU'LL BE SORRY IF YOU
>> DON'T which I took as not completely necessary.
>
> Hmm, that kind of message I take as, "If you don't do it you will be
> screwed, so you better do it." *smile*.
>
>> DEVELOPERS:  Why don't you just add the cron jobs as a NECESSARY part
>> of the installation. I've noticed that a few other people may have had
>> similar problems. Or in FAQ add "Syslog says subscription email sent
>> but, I'm not added to the list, why?" Answer "Install the cron job"
>
> No, no, no!!!  I don't want install scripts messing with my crontabs,
> I'd rather set them up myself.  What if you have a special palace to put
>  them in or want to tweak the times.?
>
>
> --
> Ever wonder if alternate worlds exist besides our own?  Join the
> parallel-worlds mailing list to discuss this, and similar topics.  click
> http://www.asmodean.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/parallel-worlds
> Raul A. Gallegos http://www.asmodean.net/contact.html
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/






From webperson at now.org  Mon Oct 28 02:36:02 2002
From: webperson at now.org (NOW Website Coordinator)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:36:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ":include:" type list in Mailman -- ie, use text file for list members?
Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20021027173425.00ca37f0@now.org>

I can't find a place, or an answer in the FAQ or the mailing list archives, 
of how to get Mailman to use an external file for a list.
Ie, a list with email addresses one on a line.

Is this possible or not at all?


Sarah Stapleton-Gray
--------------------------------------------
Web Site Coordinator
National Organization for Women
http://www.now.org





From raquel at thericehouse.net  Mon Oct 28 02:41:33 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:41:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ":include:" type list in Mailman -- ie, use text file for list members?
In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20021027173425.00ca37f0@now.org>
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021027173425.00ca37f0@now.org>
Message-ID: <20021027174133.7cfab39e.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:36:02 -0800
NOW Website Coordinator <webperson at now.org> wrote:

> I can't find a place, or an answer in the FAQ or the mailing list
> archives, of how to get Mailman to use an external file for a
> list. Ie, a list with email addresses one on a line.
> 
> Is this possible or not at all?
> 
> 
> Sarah Stapleton-Gray

I don't know that it's available using 2.0.*.  However, I know that
it is possible using 2.1*, at least using the web interface.

--
Raquel
============================================================
Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe. 
But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help the greatest of all
causes - goodwill among men and peace on earth.
  --Albert Einstein




From gms at wp.cc.nc.us  Mon Oct 28 03:58:36 2002
From: gms at wp.cc.nc.us (Gary M. Suddreth)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 21:58:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem after moving lists
Message-ID: <200210280258.g9S2waQ09779@wp.cc.nc.us>

I had to copy a list from a dying harddrive to a new installation.  The
files were copied keeping all original permissions. Both systems used
mailman on RedHat 7.3 with the latest update.
check_perms and check_db report everything is fine.  New lists created
on the new machine work fine.  The list from the former machine gets web
errors (Mailman bug) after the logos on all admin screens, and the logs
indicate the following

Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 (12044) Delivery exception:
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 (12044) Traceback (innermost last):
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/HandlerAPI.py", line 82, in
do_pipeline
    func(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py", line 77, in process
    mlist.Lock()
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 1341, in Lock
    self.__lock.lock(timeout)
  File "/var/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 266, in lock
    raise AlreadyLockedError
AlreadyLockedError:

Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044): Traceback (innermost last):
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):   File "/var/mailman/cron/qrunner",
line 283, in ?
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):      kids = main(lock)
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):   File "/var/mailman/cron/qrunner",
line 264, in main
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):      mlist.Save()
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 861, in Save
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):      self.CheckHTMLArchiveDir()
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 256, in
CheckHTMLArchiveDir
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):      makelink(privdir, pubdir)
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):   File
"/var/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 42, in makelink
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044):      os.symlink(old, new)
Oct 27 21:08:31 2002 qrunner(12044): OSError :  [Errno 2] No such file
or directory

Any ideas on how to repair this would be appreciated.


Gary M. Suddreth
Coordinator/Instructor  Computer Engineering Tech./Computer Science
Western Piedmont Community College
gms at wp.cc.nc.us




From icon at accesscomm.ca  Thu Oct 24 05:32:02 2002
From: icon at accesscomm.ca (Bob)
Date: Wed, 23 Oct 2002 21:32:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help getting it working right
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCACEIFDEAA.icon@accesscomm.ca>

I have installed Mailman 2x on a Debian system running Exim as the mail
server. I set up a "test" list, and then tried to get to the webpage to
subscribe, but while I could get to the page, after some fiddling with the
address, I could not get it to subscribe me, it always went to a blank page
and said "could not find server". Here are the problems as I have figured
them out.

Can get to www.domain.net/mailman and www.domain.net/mailman/listinfo and
www.domain.net/mailman/listinfo/test/ or any address that reads
www.domain.net/mailman* but when I try to do anything on any of these pages,
they refer to www.domain.net/cgi-bin/mailman* and the added "cgi-bin" is one
of the things stopping it. 

Also, it seems to need "www" to actually be in the address it is looking
for, but is not putting it in there itself, thus the addresses are coming up
http://domain.net/* 

When I make these changes, I can get to the pages, but then cannot do
anything because whenever I try to submit something, it looks for the
"cgi-bin" in the address and does not put in the "www". 

If you understood this, can anyone help me?

Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca 

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2008 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021023/d0b45211/attachment.bin 

From emmett at os-tools.com  Thu Oct 24 07:50:28 2002
From: emmett at os-tools.com (Emmett Culley)
Date: 23 Oct 2002 22:50:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to list server is rejected
Message-ID: <1035438629.27322.75.camel@EMMETT1>

I running a RH 7.3 distro, and am using Mailman with sendmail and
apache.  I can successfully send and receive e-mail both locally and
remotely, and the web server works correctly as well.

I've managed to get Mailman installed with the web interface working.  I
can add a new list and the list owner gets the notification message.  I
can add users from the admin page and they get the notification.

In all cases, replies to the addresses given in the notifications are
rejected by the server.  As are posts to the list.

I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.

I run into the end of my understanding of the "connection" from sendmail
to Mailman and cannot seem to find the information on the web.

None of the e-mail from this group or in the archives seems to address
this particular problem.  I am sure it is my configuration.

I'd be grateful for any help.

Emmett






From bfilipiak at ONLINE.EMICH.EDU  Thu Oct 24 17:06:54 2002
From: bfilipiak at ONLINE.EMICH.EDU (Brian Filipiak)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 11:06:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman's "Customizable Home Page" feature
Message-ID: <3B441017-E762-11D6-AAC0-0003931D98B6@online.emich.edu>

So,

Just how customizable is it? Can I build a completely new one, as long 
as I keep the essential fields in place?

My server admin thinks the home pages are dynamically built as users 
log in, rather than being static forms.

We're using 2.0.13.

Thanks,

Brian

__________________________

Brian Filipiak
Grant Project Associate
Teacher Education
313 K Porter Building
Eastern Michigan University
Ypsilanti, MI 48197

734-487-7120 x 2649
bfilipiak at online.emich.edu
__________________________




From flmg5855 at tj.sc.gov.br  Fri Oct 25 00:01:41 2002
From: flmg5855 at tj.sc.gov.br (Fernando L. M. =?iso-8859-1?Q?Gon=E7alves?=)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 19:01:41 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman 2.1b3
Message-ID: <3DB86DC5.971412C4@tj.sc.gov.br>

Hi,

I installed mailman in my Solaris 7 machine e was Ok, but when I sent a
message to list "teste" I receive the following message :


  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post teste"
    (reason: 2)
    (expanded from: <teste at tj.sc.gov.br>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 22, GOT gid 1.  (Reconfigure to take
1?)
554 5.3.0 "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post teste"... unknown
mailer error 2



Can you help me ?

Thanks.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021024/a087cbb4/attachment.html 

From felixf at pz4.org  Fri Oct 25 00:20:21 2002
From: felixf at pz4.org (Felix Filozov)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 18:20:21 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Poster, The List, Explicit
Message-ID: <000001c27bab$8c007720$6a01a8c0@cpu1>

Hello,
 
I ran into a small problem with the Reply-To header. When I pick
"Explicit" or "The List" options to be in my Reply-To header, Mailman
discards those options and chooses "Poster" as the header. I want the
option to be The List, however Mailman uses the Poster option.
 
Thanks
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021024/01bba8b4/attachment.htm 

From icon at accesscomm.ca  Fri Oct 25 05:28:52 2002
From: icon at accesscomm.ca (Bob)
Date: Thu, 24 Oct 2002 21:28:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Web subscription not working
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAIEJKDEAA.icon@accesscomm.ca>

Hi

I am an new user, installed Mailman on a Debian server running Exim. I have
finally figured out how to get the proper urls working and being able to get
to the various webpages supplied for list and admins, but when I try to
subscribe a test user from the web interface, I get the following error
message.

---------------
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software (Exim).

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  pipe to |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
    generated by test-request at livingsky.net
    Child process of address_pipe transport returned 2 from command:
    /var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper

The following text was generated during the delivery attempt:

------ pipe to |/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper mailcmd test
       generated by test-request at livingsky.net ------

Failure to exec script. WANTED gid 1, GOT gid 103.  (Reconfigure to take
103?)


Now, from reading the troubleshooting list at
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/install-faq.html, I get that Mailman is
looking for a different gid, but this is Debian and I can't configure
anything when it installs a program. How do I change this so that it will
work? BTW, I can subscribe the address from the admin page, but not from the
general subscription page.



Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca 

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: winmail.dat
Type: application/ms-tnef
Size: 2220 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021024/5d8e8c1d/attachment.bin 

From mdurand at cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca  Fri Oct 25 15:16:20 2002
From: mdurand at cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca (Martin Durand)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 09:16:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CLI mass subscribe in 2.1b3
Message-ID: <p05100303b9def290467e@[199.202.105.225]>

Bonjour,

Although the cabal will probably launch a crusade against us, we're 
running Mailman 2.1b3 as our production mailing list manager. Mainly 
because of the multilingual aspect.

We have a dozen lists automatically created from different 
administrative systems. On majordomo, all we had to do to update 
those lists was basically to overwrite the corresponding address 
files.

Is there a way to do the same thing with Mailman 2.1b3 ? Ideally, it 
would be a mass unsubscribe of every address followed by a mass 
subscribe of the new list.

A quick look through the archives (pipermail REALLY needs a search 
function) didn't produce anything.

TIA
-- 
_____________________________________________________________________
  Martin Durand                        Sainte-Foy College
  IT & telecom director                2410, chemin Sainte-Foy
  mdurand at cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca          Sainte-Foy, QC, Canada, G1V 1T3
  Voice : +1-418-659-6600 #4275        Fax : +1-418-659-4563



From morgan at commnav.com  Fri Oct 25 18:59:35 2002
From: morgan at commnav.com (Morgan Jones )
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:59:35 EDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman with Sun ONE/iPlanet Messenger
Message-ID: <34757.66.149.101.234.1035565175.commnav@home.commnav.com>

Hello.

Some of you may remember a posting by me a few weeks back regarding integrating Mailman into Sune ONE Messenger.  The consensus was that there really was no simple solution.  We ended up developing our own and I thought I'd share it.  See attached files.

As an aside, I believe it was last friday that somebody sent a similar message with their solution attached.  The insightful among you wil notice that they took a different approach. 

-morgan


Morgan Jones // morgan at commnav.com
                          CommNav, Inc.
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: mailmanWSunONEMessenger.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021025/bb23cb75/attachment.txt 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: mailmanWrapper.pl
Type: application/octet-stream
Size: 4341 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021025/bb23cb75/attachment.obj 

From bhorton at psdservices.com  Fri Oct 25 22:41:25 2002
From: bhorton at psdservices.com (Bob Horton)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 14:41:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Official Mailman Logo in EPS format
In-Reply-To: <15801.43760.957689.391314@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <IBEKKNHHNCEOJEKPKPAFGEBECHAA.bhorton@psdservices.com>

> >>>>> "BH" == Bob Horton <bhorton at psdservices.com> writes:
>
>     BH> I am involved in an Open Source Expo and we would like to put
>     BH> a large version (ie about 10 x 20 inches) of the Mailman logo
>     BH> on the back of a booth.
>
>     BH> Where would I go to find a version in EPS format that could be
>     BH> used?
>
> Bob, you're welcome to take the current Mailman logos and do anything
> you want with them.  I'm not a graphics guy so I've no clue how to
> convert them to EPS, but if someone does it, please also donate it
> back to us so I can add it to the distro.

How very Open Source of an answer!

Of course.

In fact I'm almost inclined to do it just because ... but we'll see if I
have time.

Thanks for getting back to me.

Bob.




From indira at theundergroundcity.com  Sat Oct 26 00:47:59 2002
From: indira at theundergroundcity.com (Indira)
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:47:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] private archives
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.44.0210251841480.16695-100000@durga.theundergroundcity.com>

hello,
I installed mailman-2.0.12 . I'm running netbsd-1.6.
Everything seems to be working fine except that all the archives are
public.

I checked the cgi-bin permissions and it not owned by mailman.

Here is the section of my httpd.conf that concerns mailman:
<IfModule mod_alias.c>
    ScriptAlias /mailman/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/"
    Alias /pipermail/ "/var/db/mailman/archives/public/"
    Alias /mailman-icons/ "/usr/local/lib/mailman/icons/"
</IfModule>

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/cgi-bin">
    Options Indexes Includes MultiViews SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/usr/local/lib/mailman/icons">
        Options none
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Directory "/var/db/mailman/archives/public/">
    Options SymLinksIfOwnerMatch
    AllowOverride FileInfo AuthConfig Limit
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

Any suggestions?

Indira




From keichii at iteration.net  Sun Oct 27 03:38:40 2002
From: keichii at iteration.net (Michael C. Wu)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:38:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] already followed FAQ instructions:problem with postfix/mailman
Message-ID: <20021027023840.GA61943@nuit.iteration.net>

Hi,

  I am trying to install mailman on FreeBSD 4.7 and have encountered some problems. 

  1. I use postfix+mailman.  In the installation guide, it describes
  a known problem with gid and postfix.

  I followed the instructions and here is my setup:
  root at ntugene /usr/local/mailman# grep aliases /usr/local/etc/postfix/main.cf
  alias_maps = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/aliases.postfix
  alias_database = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/usr/local/mailman/aliases.postfix

  oot at ntugene /usr/local/mailman# ls -al aliases.postfix*      ?? 10/27 10:34:27
  -rw-r--r--  1 mailman  mailman   1343 Oct 27 10:15 aliases.postfix
  -rw-r--r--  1 mailman  mailman  65536 Oct 27 10:15 aliases.postfix.db

  %id
  uid=91(mailman) gid=91(mailman) groups=91(mailman)
  %python -c'import os; print os.getgid()'
  91

  But I still get this error:

  Oct 27 10:18:59 ntugene Mailman mail-wrapper: Failure to exec script. WANTED gid
   91, GOT gid 65534.  (Reconfigure to take 65534?)

  root at ntugene /usr/local/mailman# id 65534                     ?? 10/27 10:36:48
  uid=65534(nobody) gid=65534(nobody) groups=65534(nobody)


  Should I use group nobody to run this? It seems contradictory
  to the installation documents and security practices as well.

  Thanks,
  Michael



From keichii at iteration.net  Sun Oct 27 03:42:41 2002
From: keichii at iteration.net (Michael C. Wu)
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 19:42:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and undocumented pipermail distribution
Message-ID: <20021027024241.GB61943@nuit.iteration.net>

Hi,

  A question regarding postfix+pipermail+mailman.  The pipermail
  homepage 
  http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html
  states that pipermail is no longer maintained but found in the mailman distro.

  Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py
  Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.pyc
  
  Exists but there are no documentation to be found.

  How should I setup pipermail to archive mail?  Is there a howto
  somewhere?  I do not need anything fancy, just a simple to install
  archiver.

  Thanks,
  Michael



From spacehijackers at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 27 16:29:16 2002
From: spacehijackers at hotmail.com (Space Hijackers)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 15:29:16 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribe non member posters?
Message-ID: <F140CFbN4TZyabYTHrd000000ec@hotmail.com>

I don't know if this is impossible or not, but bear with me and I will 
explain my problem.

I am using mailman in order to run a list, and wish to get a bit more 
information about people who wish to subscribe (A short statement or series 
of check boxes).  Obviously the subscribe page just asks for their email and 
a password.  Is it possible to add other parts to this?

Another alternative would be to get non members to send a mail to the list 
applying to join with a short statement.  I can set it to allow non member 
postings with admin approval, the admin can read the message and then mass 
subscribe them.

But is there a way of having a subscribe/reject button on the held post 
options as there is with the subscribe options?

Does anyone else have any ideas or can someone point me in the right 
direction?

I would really appreciate any help.

Cheers,

Robin





_________________________________________________________________
Choose an Internet access plan right for you -- try MSN! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp




From bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net  Mon Oct 28 04:36:09 2002
From: bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net (Matthew Davis)
Date: 27 Oct 2002 22:36:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to list server is rejected
In-Reply-To: <1035438629.27322.75.camel@EMMETT1>
References: <1035438629.27322.75.camel@EMMETT1>
Message-ID: <1035776170.4775.1.camel@matt.dogpound2.org>

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 01:50, Emmett Culley wrote:
> I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
> unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
> minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.

Did you add the mailman aliases to the sendmail alias file?

-- 

Matthew Davis
http://dogpound.vnet.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, October 27, 2002 / 10:35PM




From icon at accesscomm.ca  Mon Oct 28 06:00:01 2002
From: icon at accesscomm.ca (Bob)
Date: Sun, 27 Oct 2002 23:00:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to list server is rejected
In-Reply-To: <1035776170.4775.1.camel@matt.dogpound2.org>
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAKENCDEAA.icon@accesscomm.ca>

I am having the same problem, but I am using exim. 

Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-admin at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-admin at python.org]On Behalf Of Matthew Davis
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 9:36 PM
To: Emmett Culley
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] mail to list server is rejected


On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 01:50, Emmett Culley wrote:
> I can see that the messages to the list are rejected (maillog) as "User
> unknown".  I can see in the cron log that qrunner is invoked every
> minute.  I disabled the "news" portion in crontab.in.

Did you add the mailman aliases to the sendmail alias file?

-- 

Matthew Davis
http://dogpound.vnet.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
BREAKFAST.COM halted... cereal port not responding.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Sunday, October 27, 2002 / 10:35PM


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From cerdil at ttnet.net.tr  Mon Oct 28 09:25:44 2002
From: cerdil at ttnet.net.tr (shawn   Erdil)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:25:44 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] =?iso-8859-9?B?8PDn5y0gY2hhcnNldCAgcHJvYmxlbQ==?=
Message-ID: <003401c27e5b$9d06d6b0$6501a8c0@coco>


i am  having  problem  with  east  europe  charsets    - 8859-9   charsets-    like   "de&#287"   with characters  like ?,i,?

???

i  have  changed  the  encoding  in  defaults.py  but  did  not  help.

any  body  have  a  solution?


i appreciate  your    replies,

thank  you

shann


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021028/58631d45/attachment.htm 

From steinar at fremme.no  Mon Oct 28 10:59:33 2002
From: steinar at fremme.no (Steinar Fremme)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 10:59:33 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] qrunner mailman-2.1b4
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210281055250.17153-100000@fremme.no>


Hello all!
Upgraded from 2.0.13 to 2.1b4 today, and things seems
to be OK.
But when starting : bin/mailmanctl start
I get an error like :
**********************************************************
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/home/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 59, in run
    filecnt = self._oneloop()
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 88, in _oneloop
    msg, msgdata = self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 144, in dequeue
    data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 239, in 
_ext_read
    dict = marshal.load(fp)
EOFError: EOF read where object expected
******************************************************

And the qrunner error log:

(pid: 17718, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1) 
[restarting]
Oct 28 10:46:33 2002 (17701) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum 
restart limit of 10, not restarting.


Could someone give me a hint to get my lists working again ??

Thank You

STeinar




From markus.ruecker at mr-consult.net  Mon Oct 28 11:02:47 2002
From: markus.ruecker at mr-consult.net (Markus Ruecker)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:02:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Users in MySQL Database ???
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAJyM+DJ+7SE+G7HdEI7RB18KAAAAQAAAAgTHVOUPNHk6hbBw9BZBEEQEAAAAA@mr-consult.net>

Hi,
 
is ist possible to store list users in a MySQL Database?
I'm running MM 2.1b3 with Postfix on SuSE Linux 7.3.

Markus Ruecker 

mr-consult.net


 

 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021028/9872e3e9/attachment.html 

From adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl  Mon Oct 28 11:31:44 2002
From: adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl (Adrian Wieczorek)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:31:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH
Message-ID: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>

Hello,

 I've just installed mailman v2.0.13 on my site and have one question:

My Sendmail is running with smtp authorization and all messages sending
from mailman are not relayed, because auth mechanism isn't used during
connection.

How to solve this problem? Is there SMTP AUTH support in current version of
mailman ? (LOGIN or PLAIN)

I didn't find any informations in documentation abaut that...


--
Best Regards,
ADi.







From sb.list at sb.org  Mon Oct 28 13:39:12 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 07:39:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CLI mass subscribe in 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b9def290467e@[199.202.105.225]>
Message-ID: <B9E29A20.4AEE7%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/25/02 8:16 AM, "Martin Durand" <mdurand at cegep-ste-foy.qc.ca> wrote:

> ...
> We have a dozen lists automatically created from different
> administrative systems. On majordomo, all we had to do to update
> those lists was basically to overwrite the corresponding address
> files.
> 
> Is there a way to do the same thing with Mailman 2.1b3 ? Ideally, it
> would be a mass unsubscribe of every address followed by a mass
> subscribe of the new list.

You want bin/sync_members. This is better than remove all then add, since it
lets continuing people keep their settings.

See <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/admins.html>.

 - Stoney




From ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com  Mon Oct 28 14:18:50 2002
From: ganeshh at lateralsoftware.com (Ganeshh)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:48:50 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman 2.0.8 qfiles problem]
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021028095833.00a93c80@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <3DBD393A.30006@lateralsoftware.com>

Hi Ricard

Thanks for your mail.

The problem was with the mail size and i rectified the same.

But one thing, that particular list in which i had mail size restricted 
to 2 MB,  still  guys were sending mails with huge attachments, and that 
was not moderated properly.

In the above case, will the mail still sit on the queue ? or will it sit 
on the queue once the mail is approved?

Thanks
Ganeshh

Richard Barrett wrote:

> At 11:47 25/10/2002, you wrote:
>
>> Hi  Richard
>>
>>
>> I have already posted my problem in the list, but yet to get a reply....
>>
>> I need your help to solve my problem.
>>
>> am running 14 lists on my server , and for the past 1 day, my lists 
>> mails are not delivering to its subcribers...
>>
>> i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
>> growing....
>>
>> i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
>> start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...
>>
>> I need to solve this problem once and for all...
>> kindly let me know... what do i need to do...
>>
>> Thanks in advance
>> warm regards
>> Ganeshh
>
>
> Ganeshh
>
> I've been away for a couple of days and only just got your message 
> (and seen the posts and response on the mailman users list).
>
> I notice that you said in one response to Jon Carnes:
>
> At 14:33 25/10/2002, Ganeshh wrote:
>
>> have two 30M files plus few big ones in the qfiles directory...
>
>
> My experience with very large emails like these (and indeed smaller 
> than 30 Mbytes) is that they can bring Mailman to its knees, 
> particularly when the list to which such large postings are being made 
> are being archived.
>
> I'd suggest:
>
> 1. stopping the qrunner
>
> 2. moving very large .msg files and their companion .db files in the 
> $prefix/qfiles directory into some other temporary location
>
> Then restart the qrunner. If my guess about big files is correct, then 
> Mailman will start to clear the backlog of smaller emails.
>
> With my installation, I've stopped allowing very large posts to mail 
> lists. Where possible I get people to put the large files somewhere 
> the other list members can access rather than attaching them to email 
> to a mail list. If the originator  can give access either through NFS 
> (on the local network) or with HTTP from the their public_html 
> directory, they can mail out the file path or URL so that list members 
> can collect a copy of the large attachment if they want to.
>
>
>






From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Mon Oct 28 17:36:01 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:36:01 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: [Mailman 2.0.8 qfiles problem]
In-Reply-To: <3DBD393A.30006@lateralsoftware.com>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021028095833.00a93c80@pop.ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021028160204.031c0428@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 13:18 28/10/2002, Ganeshh wrote:
>Hi Ricard
>
>Thanks for your mail.
>
>The problem was with the mail size and i rectified the same.
>
>But one thing, that particular list in which i had mail size restricted to 
>2 MB,  still  guys were sending mails with huge attachments, and that was 
>not moderated properly.

I haven't seen this problem. Maybe someone else on mailman-users has.

>In the above case, will the mail still sit on the queue ? or will it sit 
>on the queue once the mail is approved?

With the lists where I've got posting size restrictions, any post over the 
size limit is held pending authorization. Initially they are in the 
$prefix/qfiles directory until it is determined they are too big and are 
held. for approval. While held they sit in the directory $prefix/data with 
a different name. Once approved they are moved back into the $prefix/qfiles 
directory again with a different name until they are sent out to the list 
membership.

>Thanks
>Ganeshh
>
>Richard Barrett wrote:
>
>>At 11:47 25/10/2002, you wrote:
>>
>>>Hi  Richard
>>>
>>>
>>>I have already posted my problem in the list, but yet to get a reply....
>>>
>>>I need your help to solve my problem.
>>>
>>>am running 14 lists on my server , and for the past 1 day, my lists 
>>>mails are not delivering to its subcribers...
>>>
>>>i have around 180 files (mails ) in my qfiles directory and it keeps 
>>>growing....
>>>
>>>i manually stopped qrunner , deleted all files in directory locks and 
>>>start qrunner manually, but nothing happened...
>>>
>>>I need to solve this problem once and for all...
>>>kindly let me know... what do i need to do...
>>>
>>>Thanks in advance
>>>warm regards
>>>Ganeshh
>>
>>
>>Ganeshh
>>
>>I've been away for a couple of days and only just got your message (and 
>>seen the posts and response on the mailman users list).
>>
>>I notice that you said in one response to Jon Carnes:
>>
>>At 14:33 25/10/2002, Ganeshh wrote:
>>
>>>have two 30M files plus few big ones in the qfiles directory...
>>
>>
>>My experience with very large emails like these (and indeed smaller than 
>>30 Mbytes) is that they can bring Mailman to its knees, particularly when 
>>the list to which such large postings are being made are being archived.
>>
>>I'd suggest:
>>
>>1. stopping the qrunner
>>
>>2. moving very large .msg files and their companion .db files in the 
>>$prefix/qfiles directory into some other temporary location
>>
>>Then restart the qrunner. If my guess about big files is correct, then 
>>Mailman will start to clear the backlog of smaller emails.
>>
>>With my installation, I've stopped allowing very large posts to mail 
>>lists. Where possible I get people to put the large files somewhere the 
>>other list members can access rather than attaching them to email to a 
>>mail list. If the originator  can give access either through NFS (on the 
>>local network) or with HTTP from the their public_html directory, they 
>>can mail out the file path or URL so that list members can collect a copy 
>>of the large attachment if they want to.
>>
>>
>
>




From cerdil at ttnet.net.tr  Mon Oct 28 17:34:17 2002
From: cerdil at ttnet.net.tr (shawn   Erdil)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:34:17 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] what to do for different python versions?
Message-ID: <000a01c27e9f$dfa41ed0$6501a8c0@coco>

, i  want  to  install  the  new  mailman  2.1b4  version,  but  the  configure  command  cannot  find  the  required  2.1  python  interpreter,

i  have  installed  the  2.1  version  of python  from  an  rpm,  it  s  there  in  usr/bin/python  but  my  systems  sees  the  version  1.5  as  the  default  interpreter .the  older  version  of  ma,ilman  works  fine with  python  1.5


what  can  i  do ?
should i  uninstall  the  python  1.5 version?
rename  the  2.1 version?
show  the correct path on  the  configure  script?
could  you  please  write  a  sample  ?

thank  you

shawn  Erdil.


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021028/e3e2ebbc/attachment.htm 

From jeremyp at pobox.com  Mon Oct 28 18:54:05 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 12:54:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman's "Customizable Home Page" feature
In-Reply-To: <3B441017-E762-11D6-AAC0-0003931D98B6@online.emich.edu>
References: <3B441017-E762-11D6-AAC0-0003931D98B6@online.emich.edu>
Message-ID: <1035827650.22164.6.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Thu, 2002-10-24 at 11:06, Brian Filipiak wrote:
> So,
> 
> Just how customizable is it? Can I build a completely new one, as long 
> as I keep the essential fields in place?
> 
> My server admin thinks the home pages are dynamically built as users 
> log in, rather than being static forms.

It's pretty customizable.  Look at the section in your administrative
pages that reads "Edit the HTML for the public list pages."  It should
be relatively self-explanatory.  Basically, you can use any HTML, but
with special <MM-*> tags that are replaced with variables when the pages
are served up by mailman.

--Jeremy




From jeremyp at pobox.com  Mon Oct 28 18:57:32 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 12:57:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No public lists?
In-Reply-To: <34586.192.168.1.2.1035671430.squirrel@_default_>
References: <5.1.1.6.0.20021025183606.02a7c780@mail.greybeard.org> 
	<34586.192.168.1.2.1035671430.squirrel@_default_>
Message-ID: <1035827853.22164.13.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

You can of course customize this on a per-list basis by using the
"hostname this list prefers" in the General Options of your mailing list
administration page.  The behavior also depends on how you're set up for
virtual hosting in mm_cfg.py .

On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 18:30, Armando Soto Baeza wrote:
> I had that problem too. The thing was so easy! Check you have written the
> right name of your site in your config file. In my case I had put
> www.mydomain.com, then I change it to just mydomain.com and it worked!
> 
> > I've installed mailman 2.0.13 fresh and configure everything as
> > correctly  as I can tell.  I have been running mailman on another system
> > for a while  so I am fairly familiar with it.
> >
> > When I create my first list, "test".  It doesn't show up on the listinfo
> >  page but I can get to the admin page and the listinfo/test page.  It
> > also  shows up on the /admin page and I can manage it just fine.
> >
> > Ideas?
> >
> > Bill
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------------------------
> > Mailman-Users mailing list
> > Mailman-Users at python.org
> > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> > Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> > Searchable Archives:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 





From jeremyp at pobox.com  Mon Oct 28 18:55:49 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 12:55:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Netscape 7 (WIN) & Admin Requests
In-Reply-To: 
	<5.1.0.14.2.20021026111159.035c5428@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
References: 
	<5.1.0.14.2.20021026111159.035c5428@postoffice2.mail.cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <1035827750.22161.8.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 11:54, Tom Hanna wrote:
> Anybody else have a problem with Netscape 7 (WIN) as an interface to 
> mailman administrative actions?  I do!  I set my browser prefs to "accept 
> all cookies" and Mailman simply does not respond as if it is able to set 
> cookies for my admin session, and does not accept any admin changes..
>

Are you running a proxy server somewhere along the way that might be
interfering with cookies?

--Jeremy
 




From jeremyp at pobox.com  Mon Oct 28 19:07:34 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 13:07:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] CLI mass subscribe in 2.1b3
In-Reply-To: <p05100303b9def290467e@[199.202.105.225]>
References: <p05100303b9def290467e@[199.202.105.225]>
Message-ID: <1035828456.22161.30.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Fri, 2002-10-25 at 09:16, Martin Durand wrote:
> 
> A quick look through the archives (pipermail REALLY needs a search 
> function) didn't produce anything.
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Martin,

Check the footer of every message sent to this list.  You'll see there
is a searchable archive of this list available. :-)

Also, if you're interested in implementing searchable archives for your
own lists, I recommend looking at the patches for mailman that allow for
integration with htdig.  See this url for more information:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=htdig&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

Regards,
Jeremy




From jeremyp at pobox.com  Mon Oct 28 19:02:58 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 13:02:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and undocumented pipermail distribution
In-Reply-To: <20021027024241.GB61943@nuit.iteration.net>
References: <20021027024241.GB61943@nuit.iteration.net>
Message-ID: <1035828181.22161.22.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Sat, 2002-10-26 at 22:42, Michael C. Wu wrote:
> 
>   How should I setup pipermail to archive mail?  Is there a howto
>   somewhere?  I do not need anything fancy, just a simple to install
>   archiver.

The built-in archiver in mailman *IS* pipermail.  You don't need to
install anything except mailman itself.  Just enable archiving in your
lists, and assuming you've followed the mailman installation
instructions, it will work fine.  

--Jeremy





From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 28 19:37:01 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:37:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH
References: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>
Message-ID: <004f01c27eb1$33db0ca0$ea88323f@burroughshome>

Wow! That would be an awesome addition, and should be easy to program too.
To bad I'm on the road Or I would give it a whack...

(BTW: I don't think this capability exists yet inside Mailman, but you can
accomplish it via a wrapper if you move the port that Mailman uses to call
SMTP)

Good Luck - Jon Carnes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Adrian Wieczorek" <adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 5:31 AM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH


> Hello,
>
>  I've just installed mailman v2.0.13 on my site and have one question:
>
> My Sendmail is running with smtp authorization and all messages sending
> from mailman are not relayed, because auth mechanism isn't used during
> connection.
>
> How to solve this problem? Is there SMTP AUTH support in current version
of
> mailman ? (LOGIN or PLAIN)
>
> I didn't find any informations in documentation abaut that...
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> ADi.
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From jonc at nc.rr.com  Mon Oct 28 19:42:57 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 13:42:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ":include:" type list in Mailman -- ie, use text file for list members?
References: <4.3.2.7.2.20021027173425.00ca37f0@now.org> <20021027174133.7cfab39e.raquel@thericehouse.net>
Message-ID: <008f01c27eb1$d6db4280$ea88323f@burroughshome>

Look at the ~mailman/bin/sync_users command.  It is exactly what you want.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Raquel Rice" <raquel at thericehouse.net>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Sunday, October 27, 2002 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] ":include:" type list in Mailman -- ie, use
text file for list members?


> On Sun, 27 Oct 2002 17:36:02 -0800
> NOW Website Coordinator <webperson at now.org> wrote:
>
> > I can't find a place, or an answer in the FAQ or the mailing list
> > archives, of how to get Mailman to use an external file for a
> > list. Ie, a list with email addresses one on a line.
> >
> > Is this possible or not at all?
> >
> >
> > Sarah Stapleton-Gray
>
> I don't know that it's available using 2.0.*.  However, I know that
> it is possible using 2.1*, at least using the web interface.
>
> --
> Raquel
> ============================================================
> Nothing that I can do will change the structure of the universe.
> But maybe, by raising my voice, I can help the greatest of all
> causes - goodwill among men and peace on earth.
>   --Albert Einstein
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/




From barry at python.org  Mon Oct 28 20:15:51 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:15:51 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and undocumented pipermail distribution
References: <20021027024241.GB61943@nuit.iteration.net>
Message-ID: <15805.36071.230741.685531@gargle.gargle.HOWL>

>>>>> "MCW" == Michael C Wu <keichii at iteration.net> writes:

    MCW>   A question regarding postfix+pipermail+mailman.  The
    MCW> pipermail homepage
    MCW> http://www.amk.ca/python/unmaintained/pipermail.html states
    MCW> that pipermail is no longer maintained but found in the
    MCW> mailman distro.

    |   Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py
    |   Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.pyc
  
    MCW>   Exists but there are no documentation to be found.

    MCW>   How should I setup pipermail to archive mail?  Is there a
    MCW> howto somewhere?  I do not need anything fancy, just a simple
    MCW> to install archiver.

You don't need to do anything if you just want Pipermail to work with
Mailman.  But I doubt that at this point Mailman's version of
Pipermail could be used as a standalone archiver, without a lot of
work.

-Barry



From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Mon Oct 28 20:22:14 2002
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 11:22:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working
Message-ID: <9C2F3AD0B86DC94B987EC4FB97C7A32405EEAEA0@XCH-SW-08.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Hi Everyone,
I am running on mailman-2.0.6-1.
I want to set up the Mail-News and News-Mail gateway for my list.
I used my admin GUI and specify the following:
  	The internet address of the machine your News server is running on :
news.boeing.com
	The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from : boeing.test
	Should new posts to the mailing list to be sent to the newsgroup :
selected "Yes" 
	Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list?
selected "Yes"
	Should Mailman perform a catchup on the newsgroup? selected "No".
This is what I got:
When I sent an email to my mailing list, I saw the mail posted on the
Usenet.
But when I use the Usenet reply the message, I don't see the mail sent to my
mailing test.  Any new posts to the newsgroup ARE NOT sent to my mailing
list.

I don't have any clue at this point why it is only working one way.  
I was looking at the /var/mailman/logs/fromusenet file and this is what I
got:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------
Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist: [680..729]
Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 10:45:01 2002 (30128) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 10:45:01 2002 (30128) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 10:45:01 2002 (30128) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 10:50:01 2002 (30149) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 10:50:01 2002 (30149) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 10:50:01 2002 (30149) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 10:55:01 2002 (30180) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 10:55:01 2002 (30180) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 10:55:01 2002 (30180) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 11:00:02 2002 (30209) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 11:00:02 2002 (30209) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 11:00:02 2002 (30209) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 11:05:00 2002 (30247) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 11:05:00 2002 (30247) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 11:05:00 2002 (30247) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550
Oct 28 11:10:01 2002 (30265) brasssgi-testlist: [680..733]
Oct 28 11:10:01 2002 (30265) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
Oct 28 11:10:01 2002 (30265) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550

What I noticed was that I posted a reply message at the Usenet about 10:40,
and this file had some changes from [680...729] to [680...733].
I don't really understand what this mean.

Any inputs is appreciated.  I wonder if there is some configuration files
that I need to configure.  

Thanks

Mary 
(562) 797-1545




From e_lenihan at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 28 23:08:29 2002
From: e_lenihan at hotmail.com (ellen lenihan)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:08:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Carriage Return in Archives
Message-ID: <F155HvQFEiDwv5YYW9T0001a1e0@hotmail.com>

Hi

I posted this question to the list before but did not see a response so I 
thought I'd try again.
Anyway - I'm new to managing a list and we've notice that for our archives 
there is no carriage return. So text just runs very far to the right making 
it very hard to read.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Ellen




_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online 
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963




From jerry at sandiego.edu  Mon Oct 28 23:32:11 2002
From: jerry at sandiego.edu (Jerry Stratton)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:32:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working
In-Reply-To: 
 <9C2F3AD0B86DC94B987EC4FB97C7A32405EEAEA0@XCH-SW-08.sw.nos.boeing.com>
References: 
 <9C2F3AD0B86DC94B987EC4FB97C7A32405EEAEA0@XCH-SW-08.sw.nos.boeing.com>
Message-ID: <a05111a09b9e36a06fe67@[199.106.12.16]>

>But when I use the Usenet reply the message, I don't see the mail sent to my
>mailing test.  Any new posts to the newsgroup ARE NOT sent to my mailing
>list.

>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist: [680..729]
>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550

What are the message numbers on the Usenet server? This looks to me like the "watermark" (the last message number that mailman went and got) is higher than the current message numbers. Is it possible that the message numbers got reset somewhow?

You might try telling it to play "catchup". This may reset the watermark to the current highest, allowing subsequent messages to get picked up by mailman.

Jerry
-- 
jerry at sandiego.edu
http://www.sandiego.edu/~jerry/
Serra 188B/x8773
--
The more restrictions there are, the poorer the people become. The greater the government's power, the more chaotic the nation would become. The more the ruler imposes laws and prohibitions on his people, the more frequently evil deeds would occur.
--The Silence of the Wise: The Sayings of Lao Zi 



From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Tue Oct 29 01:00:23 2002
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 16:00:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working
Message-ID: <9C2F3AD0B86DC94B987EC4FB97C7A32405EEAEA9@XCH-SW-08.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Jerry,

Yes.  You were right, that was the problem!  I also looked the fromusenet
file, and it did indicate that 
it was caught up with the message.    I am also starting getting messages
posted on my mailing list that is posted on the news group.

Thanks.

Mary 
(562) 797-1545


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Stratton [mailto:jerry at sandiego.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 3:05 PM
To: Wang, Mary Y
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working


>Thanks for the inputs.
>
>I went to the Mailman and tried to select 'yes' on -> Should Mailman
perform
>a catchup on the newsgroup?, but Mailman automatically puts it back to
'no'.
>Does anyone also have this problem?  Is there I can overwrite this in
>Mailman code?

This is what it is supposed to do. Once you do a "catchup" there is no
reason to do another one.

>How do you find message numbers on the Usenet server?  I didn't see message
>numbers listed in the Usenet server?

Some clients will show you the message number on the message; the
command-line program "trn" will, for example.

You may want to work with your news server system administrator on this.

Jerry
-- 
jerry at sandiego.edu
http://www.sandiego.edu/~jerry/
Serra 188B/x8773
--
The more restrictions there are, the poorer the people become. The greater
the government's power, the more chaotic the nation would become. The more
the ruler imposes laws and prohibitions on his people, the more frequently
evil deeds would occur.
--The Silence of the Wise: The Sayings of Lao Zi 



From mary.y.wang at boeing.com  Mon Oct 28 23:53:03 2002
From: mary.y.wang at boeing.com (Wang, Mary Y)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 14:53:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working
Message-ID: <9C2F3AD0B86DC94B987EC4FB97C7A32405EEAEA6@XCH-SW-08.sw.nos.boeing.com>

Thanks for the inputs.

I went to the Mailman and tried to select 'yes' on -> Should Mailman perform
a catchup on the newsgroup?, but Mailman automatically puts it back to 'no'.
Does anyone also have this problem?  Is there I can overwrite this in
Mailman code?

How do you find message numbers on the Usenet server?  I didn't see message
numbers listed in the Usenet server?

Any inputs is appreciated.

Mary 
(562) 797-1545


-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Stratton [mailto:jerry at sandiego.edu]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 2:32 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] From UseNet Is Not Working


>But when I use the Usenet reply the message, I don't see the mail sent to
my
>mailing test.  Any new posts to the newsgroup ARE NOT sent to my mailing
>list.

>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist: [680..729]
>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) nothing new for list brasssgi-testlist
>Oct 28 10:40:03 2002 (30103) brasssgi-testlist watermark: 1550

What are the message numbers on the Usenet server? This looks to me like the
"watermark" (the last message number that mailman went and got) is higher
than the current message numbers. Is it possible that the message numbers
got reset somewhow?

You might try telling it to play "catchup". This may reset the watermark to
the current highest, allowing subsequent messages to get picked up by
mailman.

Jerry
-- 
jerry at sandiego.edu
http://www.sandiego.edu/~jerry/
Serra 188B/x8773
--
The more restrictions there are, the poorer the people become. The greater
the government's power, the more chaotic the nation would become. The more
the ruler imposes laws and prohibitions on his people, the more frequently
evil deeds would occur.
--The Silence of the Wise: The Sayings of Lao Zi 

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 01:41:11 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:41:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Welcome to Mailman 2.1
Message-ID: <15805.55591.47010.608367@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Hi folks,

Just a quick note to let you know that I moved these four lists to
Mailman 2.1b4+.  Things seem to be working okay, but of course, now
the fun begins.  I'll be watching the logs, but please do let me know
if you notice anything strange.

-Barry

P.S. to mailman-users-owner... Hope you like the new moderation
interface!


From agardner at internap.com  Tue Oct 29 01:26:59 2002
From: agardner at internap.com (Adam Gardner)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 19:26:59 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Only allow posts from one domain
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210281923350.21760-100000@agardner.acs.internap.com>

Hey,

Sorry if this question has been asked to death, but I really couldn't find
anything in the archives that could help. Basically I want to allow only
*@domain.com to be able to post to my mailing list(s). I have seen the
procmail idea, and it looks good. But I also keep seeing people talking
about being able to use regexp's to do the same thing internally to
mailman. I keep seeing "posters = [<your-regexp-here]", but I'm not sure
where to put this. Does mailman indeed allow for regular expressions for
this type of thing? And where would I put this information.

Thanks for any responses,

Adam Gardner



From jeremyp at pobox.com  Tue Oct 29 02:05:03 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 20:05:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Carriage Return in Archives
In-Reply-To: <F155HvQFEiDwv5YYW9T0001a1e0@hotmail.com>
References: <F155HvQFEiDwv5YYW9T0001a1e0@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1035853506.1922.8.camel@silverstar>

On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 17:08, ellen lenihan wrote:

> I posted this question to the list before but did not see a response so I 
> thought I'd try again.
> Anyway - I'm new to managing a list and we've notice that for our archives 
> there is no carriage return. So text just runs very far to the right making 
> it very hard to read.
> Any suggestions?
> Thanks,
> Ellen

Does this occur with every message in the archive, or just some of
them?  If it's just some of them, it probably indicates that the
original poster used a mail program that didn't send carriage returns in
the first place.  This is a bug or misconfiguration in the original mail
program, and not mailman's fault.  Ask your users to set the line length
at 72 characters.

If this affects all posts, including those with proper carriage returns
in the original message, I'm not sure what to say.

--Jeremy



From FawadKhan at AirgoNetworks.Com  Tue Oct 29 03:44:07 2002
From: FawadKhan at AirgoNetworks.Com (Fawad Khan)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:44:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FW: Problems with sending mails to a New list
Message-ID: <3FFBC907DD03A34CA4410C5C745DEB120108D58E@wnimail.woodsidenet.com>

I created a new list without any problems but now when I send a message
to that list it is not getting archived.
When I go to the webserver ad look at the error when trying to go to the
archive page, it tells me that :
 
File does not exist: /scratch/mailman/install/archives/public/nic-list 
 
When I go to this directory the file is there and linked to the private
directory
 
nic-list -> /scratch/mailman/install/archives/private/nic-list
nic-list.mbox -> /scratch/mailman/install/archives/private/nic-list.mbox
 
But the directory nic-list does not exist plus nic-list.mbox is empty.
 
After creating the list I did add following lines to /etc/aliases
 
# nic-list mailing list
## created: 28-Oct-2002 perforce
nic-list:           "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper post
nic-list"
nic-list-admin:     "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper mailowner
nic-list"
nic-list-request:   "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper mailcmd
nic-list"
nic-list-owner:     nic-list-admin
 
And also ran newaliases command as a root.
 
Please let me know if anyone knows what I am doing wrong.
 
Thanks,
 
Fawad Khan
 <http://www.airgonet.com/> 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021028/6954589e/attachment.html 

From adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl  Tue Oct 29 09:51:07 2002
From: adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl (Adrian Wieczorek)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:51:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH
References: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>
	<004f01c27eb1$33db0ca0$ea88323f@burroughshome>
Message-ID: <006e01c27f28$533e33c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>

Hello,

> Wow! That would be an awesome addition, and should be easy to program too.
> To bad I'm on the road Or I would give it a whack...
>
> (BTW: I don't think this capability exists yet inside Mailman, but you can
> accomplish it via a wrapper if you move the port that Mailman uses to call
> SMTP)

 Problem was solved temporarily by changing DELIVERY_MODULE to 'Sendmail'
in Mailman/Defaults.py (by default there is 'SMTPDirect'). Now authorization
is not needed, because messages are sent directly to the sendmail pipe.



--
Best Regards,
ADi.






From adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl  Tue Oct 29 11:58:31 2002
From: adrian.wieczorek at blink.pl (Adrian Wieczorek)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:58:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH
References: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>
	<004f01c27eb1$33db0ca0$ea88323f@burroughshome>
Message-ID: <01de01c27f3a$23f53b60$1001a8c0@blink.pl>

> Wow! That would be an awesome addition, and should be easy to program too.
> To bad I'm on the road Or I would give it a whack...
>
> (BTW: I don't think this capability exists yet inside Mailman, but you can
> accomplish it via a wrapper if you move the port that Mailman uses to call
> SMTP)

Problem was solved temporarily by changing DELIVERY_MODULE to 'Sendmail'
in Mailman/Defaults.py (by default there is 'SMTPDirect'). Now authorization
is not needed, because messages are sent directly to the sendmail pipe.



--
Best Regards,
ADi.






From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 12:24:56 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 29 Oct 2002 11:24:56 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman and SMTP AUTH
In-Reply-To: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>
References: <014801c27e6d$35fe79c0$1001a8c0@blink.pl>
Message-ID: <1035890696.1353.7.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Mon, 2002-10-28 at 10:31, Adrian Wieczorek wrote:
> My Sendmail is running with smtp authorization and all messages sending
> from mailman are not relayed, because auth mechanism isn't used during
> connection.

Assuming your mailman and sendmail installation are on the same machine,
is it not possible to configure sendmail to accept relay without
authentication from localhost (127.0.0.1)?

SMTP auth isn't really buying you much here - other than I guess making
it a little harder to configure an open relay by accident (which is
useful).  However the auth will impact your SMTP sessions - although not
to an extent likely to significantly impair performance.

        Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From brianr at bjsystems.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 12:39:54 2002
From: brianr at bjsystems.co.uk (Brian Read)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:39:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>

Hi

I have a set-up where the domain name is different to the mailing address name.

Mailman seems to have set-up the mail addresses and the list admin URLs ok, 
but it gets the Archive URL wrong.  It is using the email hostname,. not 
the domain name that it uses for the list admin etc.

I have tried editrting mm_cfg.py, the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL var, but my 
postings still come out with the "old" URL.  How do I change it for 
existing lists?

Cheers

Brian

Brian J Read
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk
www.theonlineorganiser.com
www.thepersonalknowledgebase.com
Mitel SMEserver Contributions and Howtos: 
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk/abandon/links.html
+44 1695 723723




From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 13:51:54 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:51:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021029124921.032968a0@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 11:39 29/10/2002, Brian Read wrote:
>Hi
>
>I have a set-up where the domain name is different to the mailing address 
>name.
>
>Mailman seems to have set-up the mail addresses and the list admin URLs 
>ok, but it gets the Archive URL wrong.  It is using the email hostname,. 
>not the domain name that it uses for the list admin etc.
>
>I have tried editrting mm_cfg.py, the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL var, but my 
>postings still come out with the "old" URL.  How do I change it for 
>existing lists?
>
>Cheers
>
>Brian


have you tried using $prefix/bin/fix_url.py ?



From mir at suse.com  Tue Oct 29 13:54:08 2002
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:54:08 +0100
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
	<20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>
Message-ID: <20021029135408.A17763@suse.de>

Oops ...

sorry for my stupid rant :-)

It seems that the new mailman now creates individual "To:" headers.
I'm not sure if I like this since I cannot tell whether the recipient
wanted to send the mail really to me and only cc the list (so he might
expect a personal answer from myself), or if it's just a regular list
mail. But this is definitely not the fault of Brian or somebody else ...

Cheerio,

Michael

-- 
=============================================================================
Michael Radziej           SuSE Linux AG              phone +49-911-74053-646
Internal IT               Deutschherrenstr. 15-19    fax   +49-911-3206727
(vormals interne EDV)     90429 N?rnberg, Germany    web   http://www.suse.de
=============================================================================
                                 Ich geb's zu, es ist manchmal alptraumartig.
                                                  cg am 24.10.2002 ?ber perl



From mir at suse.com  Tue Oct 29 13:42:13 2002
From: mir at suse.com (Michael Radziej)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:42:13 +0100
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
Message-ID: <20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>

Hello,

why is everybody adding my email address into the cc field?
Please stop it.

Michael


-- 
=============================================================================
Michael Radziej           SuSE Linux AG              phone +49-911-74053-646
Internal IT               Deutschherrenstr. 15-19    fax   +49-911-3206727
(vormals interne EDV)     90429 N?rnberg, Germany    web   http://www.suse.de
=============================================================================
                                 Ich geb's zu, es ist manchmal alptraumartig.
                                                  cg am 24.10.2002 ?ber perl



From andreas at conectiva.com.br  Tue Oct 29 14:06:46 2002
From: andreas at conectiva.com.br (Andreas Hasenack)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:06:46 -0300
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
	<20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>
Message-ID: <20021029130646.GG4863@conectiva.com.br>

Same here, and the response I got from the list owner isn't very
encouraging:

You have reached the Mailman-Users administrator.  This is a canned
response; it is doubtful that I will respond personally to your
message.

Most likely it's a problem with the migration to 2.1b4.

Em Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 01:42:13PM +0100, Michael Radziej escreveu:
> why is everybody adding my email address into the cc field?
> Please stop it.


From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 14:13:50 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 29 Oct 2002 13:13:50 +0000
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029135408.A17763@suse.de>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
	<20021029134212.A17628@suse.de>  <20021029135408.A17763@suse.de>
Message-ID: <1035897230.3225.7.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 12:54, Michael Radziej wrote:
> It seems that the new mailman now creates individual "To:" headers.
> I'm not sure if I like this since I cannot tell whether the recipient
> wanted to send the mail really to me and only cc the list (so he might
> expect a personal answer from myself), or if it's just a regular list
> mail. But this is definitely not the fault of Brian or somebody else ...

Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think is
in general bad for a general purpose list, or a (n unecessary) side
effect of VERP handling, although if thats the case then the VERP
limiting has been set so all messages are VERPed.

I guess it will change after the US folks get going again... unless
Barry is wanting to knock all the bugs out of personalisation by
stressing it a little.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From sb.list at sb.org  Tue Oct 29 14:42:36 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:42:36 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029135408.A17763@suse.de>
Message-ID: <B9E3FA7C.4B1AE%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/29/02 7:54 AM, "Michael Radziej" <mir at suse.com> wrote:

> It seems that the new mailman now creates individual "To:" headers.
> I'm not sure if I like this since I cannot tell whether the recipient
> wanted to send the mail really to me and only cc the list (so he might
> expect a personal answer from myself), or if it's just a regular list
> mail. But this is definitely not the fault of Brian or somebody else ...

Take a look at the bottom of the message. If there's a footer, it's unlikely
that your sender typed that in. If there's not, and it's html, check for the
list headers.

 - Stoney



From bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net  Tue Oct 29 15:21:02 2002
From: bigdog at dogpound.vnet.net (Matthew Davis)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:21:02 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029130646.GG4863@conectiva.com.br>;
	from andreas@conectiva.com.br on Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 10:06:46AM -0300
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029112818.05951ec8@server01>
	<20021029134212.A17628@suse.de> <20021029130646.GG4863@conectiva.com.br>
Message-ID: <20021029092102.A16767@dogpound.vnet.net>

Or the new way 2.1b4 sends mail (feature or bug?, barry will know).

If you look the to: is your address and the cc: is the mailing list.

* Andreas Hasenack (andreas at conectiva.com.br) wrote:
> 
> Most likely it's a problem with the migration to 2.1b4.
> 
> Em Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 01:42:13PM +0100, Michael Radziej escreveu:
> > why is everybody adding my email address into the cc field?
> > Please stop it.

Matthew Davis
http://dogpound.vnet.net/
----------------------------------------------------------------
I haven't lost my mind; I'm sure it's backed up on tape somewhere! 
----------------------------------------------------------------
Tuesday, October 29, 2002 / 09:19AM


From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Tue Oct 29 15:30:38 2002
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern - Former Rocket Scientist)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:30:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210290929560.4275-100000@forest.umiacs.umd.edu>

Has anyone incorporated spamassassin with mailman? If so, do you have any
detailed instructions?

Thanks


 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
 David Stern                                            University of Maryland
                Institute for Advanced Computer Studies



From miller_brett at bah.com  Tue Oct 29 15:39:35 2002
From: miller_brett at bah.com (Miller Brett)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:39:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4
Message-ID: <000701c27f59$0386ad90$3f80509c@nitrox>

Hello mailman users,

I just upgraded to Mailman beta 4 and I am receiving this error when a
mailman cron job runs. Has anyone seen this error and does anyone know
how to fix it. Thank you for your time.


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 26, in ?
    from email.Charset import Charset
ImportError: No module named email.Charset


Brett Miller 
Booz | Allen | Hamilton
E-mail: miller_brett at bah.com
Office: (410)684-6468 






From pareilly at tcd.ie  Tue Oct 29 15:48:39 2002
From: pareilly at tcd.ie (Paul Reilly)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:48:39 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
In-Reply-To: <000701c27f59$0386ad90$3f80509c@nitrox>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.4.43L0.0210291446170.39845-100000@web2.tcd.ie>


I've setup mailman on a virtual hosting envinroment, but each virtual
listinfo main page...

http://lists.virtualdomain.com/mailman/listinfo

has a link to admin page which lists all the mailing lists on the
server, not just the ones for this virtual domain!

How do I remove this?

Thanks

Paul



From chris_colombo at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 29 16:09:37 2002
From: chris_colombo at hotmail.com (chris colombo)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:09:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
Message-ID: <F159PefLJGWSa1aNEVJ0001ca27@hotmail.com>


I have no idea what this mailstuff is all about.  Just woke up today and my 
box is full of this Mailman-Users chatter.

Do you know how I get away?





>From: Paul Reilly <pareilly at tcd.ie>
>To: chris_colombo at hotmail.com
>CC: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:48:39 +0000 (GMT)
>
>
>I've setup mailman on a virtual hosting envinroment, but each virtual
>listinfo main page...
>
>http://lists.virtualdomain.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>has a link to admin page which lists all the mailing lists on the
>server, not just the ones for this virtual domain!
>
>How do I remove this?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/


_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband. 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 16:13:24 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:13:24 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1035897230.3225.7.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 05:13  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

> Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think is
> in general bad for a general purpose list,

It is. This is a new feature of 2.1, folks. And I disagree strongly 
with Nigel that it's a bad idea. I've been running my lists with 
personalization on for about 10 days now (they got all the pain fixing 
things...), and it's a nice plus. It'll be nicer once Barry adds some 
of the personalization into the footer. Once this is turned on, you can 
do some neat things like pre-load the URL for the listinfo page so it 
takes a user to their info directly, not a generic page where they have 
to figure out what to do.

It's a feature, not a bug.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging.



From jeremyp at pobox.com  Tue Oct 29 16:20:36 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 29 Oct 2002 10:20:36 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <1035904837.23604.23.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 10:13, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 05:13  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> > Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think is
> > in general bad for a general purpose list,
> 
> It is. This is a new feature of 2.1, folks. And I disagree strongly 
> with Nigel that it's a bad idea. I've been running my lists with 
> personalization on for about 10 days now (they got all the pain fixing 
> things...), and it's a nice plus. It'll be nicer once Barry adds some 
> of the personalization into the footer. Once this is turned on, you can 
> do some neat things like pre-load the URL for the listinfo page so it 
> takes a user to their info directly, not a generic page where they have 
> to figure out what to do.
> 
> It's a feature, not a bug.

But it is a "bug" to enable this behavior on existing lists without
alerting people clearly.  Obviously it's screwing up many people's
filters.  List administrators take note -- don't do this on your own
lists when you upgrade!

--Jeremy



From chris_colombo at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 29 16:33:50 2002
From: chris_colombo at hotmail.com (chris colombo)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:33:50 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
Message-ID: <F32BcKfExvWvqzAoa2J00000730@hotmail.com>

UNSUBSCRIBE






>From: Jeremy Portzer <jeremyp at pobox.com>
>To: chris_colombo at hotmail.com
>CC: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: Re: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
>Date: 29 Oct 2002 10:20:36 -0500
>
>On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 10:13, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> >
> > On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 05:13  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> >
> > > Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think 
>is
> > > in general bad for a general purpose list,
> >
> > It is. This is a new feature of 2.1, folks. And I disagree strongly
> > with Nigel that it's a bad idea. I've been running my lists with
> > personalization on for about 10 days now (they got all the pain fixing
> > things...), and it's a nice plus. It'll be nicer once Barry adds some
> > of the personalization into the footer. Once this is turned on, you can
> > do some neat things like pre-load the URL for the listinfo page so it
> > takes a user to their info directly, not a generic page where they have
> > to figure out what to do.
> >
> > It's a feature, not a bug.
>
>But it is a "bug" to enable this behavior on existing lists without
>alerting people clearly.  Obviously it's screwing up many people's
>filters.  List administrators take note -- don't do this on your own
>lists when you upgrade!
>
>--Jeremy
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/


_________________________________________________________________
Broadband??Dial-up? Get reliable MSN Internet Access. 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp



From brianr at bjsystems.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 16:43:15 2002
From: brianr at bjsystems.co.uk (Brian Read)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:43:15 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20021029154302.02363e80@server01>

At 12:51 29/10/2002, you wrote:
>At 11:39 29/10/2002, Brian Read wrote:
>>Hi
>>
>>I have a set-up where the domain name is different to the mailing address 
>>name.
>>
>>Mailman seems to have set-up the mail addresses and the list admin URLs 
>>ok, but it gets the Archive URL wrong.  It is using the email hostname,. 
>>not the domain name that it uses for the list admin etc.
>>
>>I have tried editrting mm_cfg.py, the PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL var, but my 
>>postings still come out with the "old" URL.  How do I change it for 
>>existing lists?
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>Brian
>
>
>have you tried using $prefix/bin/fix_url.py ?


I have now, and it made no difference.  I suspect this is a bug - where do 
I submit it?

cheers

Brian





>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/

Brian J Read
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk
www.theonlineorganiser.com
www.thepersonalknowledgebase.com
Mitel SMEserver Contributions and Howtos: 
www.abandonmicrosoft.co.uk/abandon/links.html
+44 1695 723723




From jon at csh.rit.edu  Tue Oct 29 16:45:37 2002
From: jon at csh.rit.edu (Jon Parise)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:45:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamassassin
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210290929560.4275-100000@forest.umiacs.umd.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210290929560.4275-100000@forest.umiacs.umd.edu>
Message-ID: <20021029154537.GC10265@csh.rit.edu>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 09:30:38AM -0500, Dave Stern - Former Rocket Scientist wrote:

> Has anyone incorporated spamassassin with mailman? If so, do you have any
> detailed instructions?
 
There is an existing patch[1] for Mailman 2.0.  I'm currently testing
an updated version for Mailman 2.1.  I hope to make it available soon,
but I'm kind of swamped this week with work and preparations for the
International PHP Conference next week.

[1] http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=534577&group_id=103&atid=300103

-- 
Jon Parise (jon at csh.rit.edu)  ::  http://www.csh.rit.edu/~jon/


From spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu  Tue Oct 29 16:40:47 2002
From: spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu (Spam account)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:40:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman archives problem unsolved
Message-ID: <20021029154047.GB8812@fisher.forestry.uga.edu>

I have followed the instructions in the Mailman FAQ, and have found 
various postings in this list archive, but I still can't get my mailman 
list archives working. Than is, I still have some type of permissions 
configuration problem which gives me a forbidden error from apache.

On my Debian server, I have created a symbolic link:

pipermail -> /var/lib/mailman/archives/public

and have also added symbolic link permissions in httpd.conf:

<Location /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
  Options FollowSymLinks
</Location>

That should do it right? But when I try and access 

http://<myservername>/pipermail/<mylistname>

I get the forbidden error. Any idea what I may be missing?

TIA,
cjf


From chris_colombo at hotmail.com  Tue Oct 29 16:57:19 2002
From: chris_colombo at hotmail.com (chris colombo)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:57:19 -0500
Subject: Fwd: [Mailman-Users] mailman archives problem unsolved
Message-ID: <F64GEuXxZoGo7ZzDH0r00019f71@hotmail.com>



HELP




>From: Spam account <spam at fisher.forestry.uga.edu>
>To: chris_colombo at hotmail.com
>CC: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman archives problem unsolved
>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:40:47 -0500
>
>I have followed the instructions in the Mailman FAQ, and have found
>various postings in this list archive, but I still can't get my mailman
>list archives working. Than is, I still have some type of permissions
>configuration problem which gives me a forbidden error from apache.
>
>On my Debian server, I have created a symbolic link:
>
>pipermail -> /var/lib/mailman/archives/public
>
>and have also added symbolic link permissions in httpd.conf:
>
><Location /var/lib/mailman/archives/public>
>   Options FollowSymLinks
></Location>
>
>That should do it right? But when I try and access
>
>http://<myservername>/pipermail/<mylistname>
>
>I get the forbidden error. Any idea what I may be missing?
>
>TIA,
>cjf
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/


_________________________________________________________________
Get faster connections?-- switch to?MSN Internet Access! 
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/default.asp



From davidgordon at ntlworld.com  Tue Oct 29 17:14:46 2002
From: davidgordon at ntlworld.com (David Gordon)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:14:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman & bulkmail?
Message-ID: <20021029161447.1365@smtp.ntlworld.com>

I'm thinking of moving a mailing list from Majordomo to Mailman. I know
very little about either, less about Mailman.

Currently our host does not count mail against our bandwith quota. We are
moving to a new server where it will be counted. I have no idea how much
we use or how to work it out. Say we have 500 subscribers and a 2k
message is posted. How much bandwidth did we use?

I'm told with Majordomo it's 500 x 2k. But if we were to run Bulkmail
with Majordomo that would decrease to 10k. Now I don't know enough about
how outgiong mail works or what Bulkmail is, to question this. But it
seem like a good idea?

So, my question is, how much bandwith would Mailman use and could I use
Bulkmail with it?

Thanks!

-- 
DG



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 17:40:21 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 08:40:21 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1035904837.23604.23.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
Message-ID: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:20  AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote:

> alerting people clearly.  Obviously it's screwing up many people's
> filters.

then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering on 
List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on 
to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also incorrect.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh
nervously and change the subject.



From jeremyp at pobox.com  Tue Oct 29 17:52:09 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 29 Oct 2002 11:52:09 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <1035910329.23550.48.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 11:40, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:20  AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote:
> 
> > alerting people clearly.  Obviously it's screwing up many people's
> > filters.
> 
> then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering on 
> List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on 
> to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also incorrect.

Personally, *my* filters were correct; I'm having no problems.

It's just a general good idea that when you change things, you should
let your users know of the changes.  I agree that filtering on To/From
is not idea, but many people do not know better.  Many people are used
to other list software that has nothing like List-ID, so they're forced
to filtering on To/From.

One of the rules of effective system administration is to not piss off
your users.  I was just trying to remind people of this!  You can be a
BOFH in private, but that attitude doesn't work in real life.

--Jeremy
(fortunately, this thread is already marked OFFTOPIC!)



From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Tue Oct 29 17:55:29 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 29 Oct 2002 16:55:29 +0000
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 16:40, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering on 
> List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on 
> to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also incorrect.

Agreed.

However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To line
highly irritating (even more so if I use list specific delivery
addresses).  I'd far rather only see the list address, and any
pre-existing additional addresses, in the header To/Cc lines.  Seeing my
own address in a message header raises a mental flag that this message
was sent to me personally, and sincere as you are no doubt being Chuq, I
don't think you would consider the last batch of messages from you all
personally addressed to me :-)

If you want to put the real delivery address in the message put it in
the footer - some mail systems (hello sendmail) happily bugger around
with the header lines anyway so its not even a (completely) safe marker
of which account is subscribed to the list.

	Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From andreas at conectiva.com.br  Tue Oct 29 17:56:38 2002
From: andreas at conectiva.com.br (Andreas Hasenack)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:56:38 -0300
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <1035904837.23604.23.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
	<1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029165638.GM4863@conectiva.com.br>

Em Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 08:40:21AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach escreveu:
> then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering on 
> List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on 
> to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also incorrect.

I was filtering on "Sender", but that changed also. No problem, let's start
filtering on List-ID.



From bronto at csd-bes.net  Tue Oct 29 18:10:08 2002
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (bronto)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:10:08 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b02b9e471053245@[10.1.19.62]>


>then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering 
>on List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on 
>to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also 
>incorrect.

This will be good advice once all the mail clients support filtering 
on List-ID.  What about now?

Rob


From gerald at impressive.net  Tue Oct 29 18:12:42 2002
From: gerald at impressive.net (Gerald Oskoboiny)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:12:42 -0500
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in
	postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <1035897230.3225.7.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029171242.GD7004@impressive.net>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 07:13:24AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> 
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 05:13  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> >Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think is
> >in general bad for a general purpose list,
> 
> It is. This is a new feature of 2.1, folks. And I disagree strongly 
> with Nigel that it's a bad idea. I've been running my lists with 
> personalization on for about 10 days now (they got all the pain fixing 
> things...), and it's a nice plus.
:
> It's a feature, not a bug.

ouch!

Is this feature enabled by default? If so, I urge you to reconsider.

I think the use of this feature should be strongly deprecated,
like reply-to munging.

-- 
Gerald Oskoboiny <gerald at impressive.net>
http://impressive.net/people/gerald/


From jonc at nc.rr.com  Tue Oct 29 18:22:41 2002
From: jonc at nc.rr.com (Jon Carnes)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:22:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I assume you want help unsubscribing?
References: <F64GEuXxZoGo7ZzDH0r00019f71@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <00b901c27f6f$cbe6e780$4791323f@burroughshome>

To unsubscribe from the mailman-users list send a text based email to
mailman-users-request at python.org then in the body of the message simply put:
  unsubscribe <your email address>

You should receive a confirmation email in a few minutes.  You can also go
to the listinfo WebPages for the list and then enter your name and your
password and unsubscribe that way.

If you don't know your password, don't despair their is link off that page
that will mail your password to you.

Good Luck and God's speed!

> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 18:39:22 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:39:22 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1035910329.23550.48.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
Message-ID: <5C3BB5C6-EB65-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 08:52  AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote:
> It's just a general good idea that when you change things, you should
> let your users know of the changes.

I don't disagree. I thought Barry did send out a warning that the list 
was going to 2.1.

> One of the rules of effective system administration is to not piss off
> your users.

On the other hand, people have to remember this list is about mailman, 
so testing mailman on it is a necessary evil, and things are going to 
happen that, ahem, aren't always what's planned. The joy of beta code 
is even if you do get all the warnings, stuff's going to change in ways 
that you may not be ready for (because it might be broken...)


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

The Cliff's Notes Cliff's Notes on Hamlet:
     And they all died happily ever after



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 18:46:29 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:46:29 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <5AE00CB8-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 08:55  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:

> However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To line
> highly irritating

Why? I'm curious.

What you're seeing is the move of mailman away from a bulk delivery 
model.

Why? Because, among other things, it's the first step towards a 
fully-customized setup. 2.1 allows you to customize various aspects of 
your subscription in ways that couldn't be done before. Also, more and 
more mail systems throw a tainted eye at all bulk mail (and for that 
matter, anything that is sent using BCC), and I think it's important 
that we understand that and differentiate mailing lists from those bulk 
deliveries.

> Seeing my
> own address in a message header raises a mental flag that this message
> was sent to me personally,

Well, it was. Mailman carefully packaged up the message I posted, and 
then customized it to the preferences of each subscriber of the list. 
yours was set up JUST for you, in fact. As the personallization aspects 
are added to the message templates, you'll see that more obviously. And 
if you choose to customize your subscription, you'll start taking more 
advantage of it...


>  and sincere as you are no doubt being Chuq, I
> don't think you would consider the last batch of messages from you all
> personally addressed to me :-)

actually, we could argue the philosophy of that at some point...

> If you want to put the real delivery address in the message put it in
> the footer - some mail systems (hello sendmail) happily bugger around
> with the header lines anyway so its not even a (completely) safe marker
> of which account is subscribed to the list.
>

Actually, sendmail does a good job of this. The only mail server I'm 
really pissed at these days is First Class (hint: I just wrote a new 
bounce processing system for a project. I fed it 70,000 bounces, and it 
managed to handle all of them except about 800. Of those 800, half were 
from first class servers. In fact, NO first class server bounce was 
able to be automatically processed. Exchange and Notes were very 
distant second and 3rd for messing up stuff such that I couldn't 
process things....)

Sendmail gets a bad rap for things that people writing stupid 
interfaces to it make it do.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam my clothes down here, will you?



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 18:48:39 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:48:39 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b02b9e471053245@[10.1.19.62]>
Message-ID: <A871D3DA-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:10  AM, bronto wrote:

> This will be good advice once all the mail clients support filtering 
> on List-ID.  What about now?
>

Get a better mail client. or double check. The good mail clients let 
you specify custom headers to filter on, so just create a custom one 
for list-id.

If your mail client really is braindead (how do you filter on 
yahoogroups then?) then Sender is an acceptable backup, and there's no 
excuse for a client to not filter on that, IMHO. sender should be 
stable most of the time, but might change during upgrades. List-ID is 
defined to be static across the life of a list just for this reason.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

IMHO: Jargon. Acronym for In My Humble Opinion. Used to flag as an 
opinion
something that is clearly from context an opinion to everyone except the
mentally dense. Opinions flagged by IMHO are actually rarely humble. 
IMHO.
     (source: third unabridged dictionary of chuqui-isms).



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 18:50:16 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 09:50:16 -0800
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in
	postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <20021029171242.GD7004@impressive.net>
Message-ID: <E1D383AE-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:12  AM, Gerald Oskoboiny wrote:

>> It's a feature, not a bug.
>
> ouch!
>
> Is this feature enabled by default? If so, I urge you to reconsider.

No. and I wouldn't expect it to be in 2.1. but I think it ought to be 
considered an indication of "future directions in thinking". hint hint.

> I think the use of this feature should be strongly deprecated,
> like reply-to munging.
>

why? I'm curious. Other than it's "not what I'm used to"?


>
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

He doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier.



From bruno at postle.net  Tue Oct 29 18:53:03 2002
From: bruno at postle.net (Bruno Postle)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:53:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] To-munging considered harmful
In-Reply-To: <1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <20021029175303.GA22973@postle.net>

On Tue 29-Oct-2002 at 04:55:29PM +0000, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> 
> However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To
> line highly irritating (even more so if I use list specific
> delivery addresses).  I'd far rather only see the list address,
> and any pre-existing additional addresses, in the header To/Cc
> lines.

This is much like Reply-To munging.  I can see situations where it
might be useful, but personally I'd rather receive the message as
the poster sent-it (or as near as possible).  For instance, I've
often redistributed list archives as mbox files; personalised mail
means that they can't be regarded as a definitive 'historical
record'.

Ok, I bet I can turn this off as a user, but please don't make it
the default for mailman.

As an aside, I'd prefer that any messages _I_ send to a list arn't
rewritten so as to appear as if I sent them directly to every
recipient.  It gives a very different impression, not something I'd
be happy with in general - Since I'm really _not_ sending mail for
the personal immediate attention of all those people.

> Seeing my own address in a message header raises a mental flag
> that this message was sent to me personally

Agreed, I have no problems filtering this list format (not least
since filtering incoming mail on 'To' is bad practice anyway), but I
do highlight messages with my own address in the headers - Something
that is now (somewhat) messed-up.

-- 
Bruno


From alex at phred.org  Tue Oct 29 19:08:56 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:08:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <F81B0C91-EB50-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029100654.I669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 05:13  AM, Nigel Metheringham wrote:
> > Its either that personalisation has been switched on - which I think is
> > in general bad for a general purpose list,
>
> It is. This is a new feature of 2.1, folks. And I disagree strongly
> with Nigel that it's a bad idea. I've been running my lists with
> personalization on for about 10 days now (they got all the pain fixing
> things...), and it's a nice plus. It'll be nicer once Barry adds some
> of the personalization into the footer. Once this is turned on, you can
> do some neat things like pre-load the URL for the listinfo page so it
> takes a user to their info directly, not a generic page where they have
> to figure out what to do.

The problem with personalization in the To: header is that I can't
tell if email is to me or just to the list.

I have my email client color messages depending on what is in the To:
header.  If my name is there it is one color, if not it is another
color.  In folders for mailing lists this makes it very easy to skim
for replies to my messages.  With personalization turned on it is
impossible for me to use this feature anymore.

I think personalization in the footers is great (personalized
response), and sticking an X-MailmanTo header or something would be
great.  Making it look like each message is to me, instead of to the
list, is terrible.

Hopefully personalization can be turned on without requiring this
as well.

alex



From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Tue Oct 29 19:24:14 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:24:14 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <3DBED24E.CDDFB8EA@whidbey.com>

Gosh, I get a lot of mail here that doesn't have anything resembling a List-ID
header, and I don't recall every seeing the filter settings for my mail software
(Eudora and NS Messenger) that offered to filter on that header, so I can't
accept your contention that filtering on other fields is "incorrect."

That is the same as my saying that the nickname derived from Charles is "Chuck"
and that "Chuq" is wrong.

Van

Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:20  AM, Jeremy Portzer wrote:
>
> > alerting people clearly.  Obviously it's screwing up many people's
> > filters.
>
> then your filters were set up wrong. You sohuld have been filtering on
> List-ID all along, since that's what it's there for. Filtering on
> to/from is incorrect, so saying we shouldn't break it is also incorrect.
>
> --

--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 19:36:21 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:36:21 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029100654.I669-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <51C8B291-EB6D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


at this point, no. But I think it's an interesting question whether 
personalization should require the to/cc header mods or not. I can see 
why you might want to personalize other parts but not that.

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 19:38:21 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:38:21 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <3DBED24E.CDDFB8EA@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <9962A80E-EB6D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:24  AM, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:

> Gosh, I get a lot of mail here that doesn't have anything resembling a 
> List-ID
> header, and I don't recall every seeing the filter settings for my 
> mail software
> (Eudora and NS Messenger) that offered to filter on that header, so I 
> can't
> accept your contention that filtering on other fields is "incorrect."

Point taken. If list-ID exists, it is what you should use to filter 
list mail on. not all list servers support list-ID yet, but the right 
answer is to encourage them to follow the standards, and you should.

> That is the same as my saying that the nickname derived from Charles 
> is "Chuck"
> and that "Chuq" is wrong.
>

Of course, some folks have, in fact, tried to have that discussion with 
me... Not that it worked.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

He doesn't have ulcers, but he's a carrier.



From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Tue Oct 29 19:38:19 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:38:19 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

> > However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To line
> > highly irritating
> 
> Why? I'm curious.

Because it's simply a lie.  I got this mail with the headers:

From:    Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com>
To:      jay at ccs.neu.edu
cc:      Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>

What that means to me is that Chuq Von Rospach knows me, knows my email
address, deliberately decided to send this mail to me specifically,
and thinks that the subscribers of mailman-users at python.org might
be interested in looking over our shoulders as we have this personal
conversation.

I often put people and/or lists in the To: or Cc: headers, or Bcc: 
headers, depending on the content of the mail and how important I 
think it is to them.  I will trust lists less if they mess with what 
I put there.

I sometimes put actual content that is important to the message in 
those headers, such as:

To: People who attended my last party <jay at example.org>
Bcc: jay-party-list at example.org
Subject: Somebody left a jacket

I expect that people with civilized mailers are going to be able to 
see what I typed in the To: (and From: and Cc:) headers, and I consider 
that part of the message.

Back to filtering, I filter lots of my mailing lists into separate 
folders, but I only do so if my own address doesn't appear in the 
destination headers, because in that case I consider the message addressed 
to me as an individual as well as to the list, and I want it to end 
up in the place where mail-addressed-to-me-as-an-individual goes.

With this change that distinction is lost.  I can no longer tell (except
by seeing how many copies of a message I got, which may break in other
ways if a message is sent to multiple lists) whether I was singled out
as a particular more-interested recipient of a message, or if I got it
only because I'm subscribed to a list.

For lists I administer, I'll just turn this off when I migrate.

For lists I'm subscribed to but filter to folders and read in batch 
mode, I'll just change my filters to adapt.  That loses me the adavantage 
of treating messages that actually *did* list me individually as a 
recipient differently, and means that I might not see something that 
was sent to the list but Cc:'ed to me for some time, and might not 
get the chance to respond in a timely fashion.

For lists I'm subscribed to but *don't* filter to folders and normally 
read interspersed with the rest of my mail, I'd find the new behaviour 
sufficiently awful that I'd start filtering them (and be much less 
likely to read them in a timely fashion).

The end result (if Mailman-run lists were to routinely switch to this
behaviour) is that I'll be subscribed to fewer lists than I am now, and
that of the lists I stay subscribed to, I'll be a less active participant.

(On the other hand, I really want personalized footers and mailman-not-rfc822
"headers".)

If the new behaviour is optional and not the default, and you don't 
have to enable the (RFC822) header munging in order to turn on personalized 
delivery, then I see no problem with the new functionality being there. 
I can even imagine certain very special-purpose, broadcast-only lists 
where it might be desirable.  But it's certainly not a behaviour I 
would want on any list I was subscribed to.

Sorry if this message comes across as heated.  Maybe I've taken this 
discussion more personally because it was all addressed to me specifically. :-)
Mailman is fabulous, and the improvements in the new version are
generally great, and I'm looking forward to migrating to 2.1, and 
I think my users are going to love some of the new features.

But I sure am glad this particular change isn't going to be the default, 
(and I hope it doesn't prevent me from turning on personalized footers).

Cheers,

Jay


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 19:45:28 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:45:28 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:38  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:
> Because it's simply a lie.  I got this mail with the headers:
>

sorry. don't agree.


> What that means to me is that Chuq Von Rospach knows me, knows my email
> address, deliberately decided to send this mail to me specifically,

um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.

> Back to filtering, I filter lots of my mailing lists into separate
> folders, but I only do so if my own address doesn't appear in the
> destination headers, because in that case I consider the message 
> addressed
> to me as an individual as well as to the list, and I want it to end
> up in the place where mail-addressed-to-me-as-an-individual goes.
>
> With this change that distinction is lost.  I can no longer tell

I think that filtering method is flawed, personally. I filter all list 
mail into a folder, using list-id, sender, mailing-list (damn you, 
yahoogroups), and occasionally a weird header from some funky list 
server that doesn't come near the standards except in leap years.

that way, I know what's in my personal mailbox is personal mail. Even 
if it's a reply I got from a posting to a mail list. That allows me to 
carry on a discussion on a list in a timely manner, even if (for 
instance) I don't read the mail in the list folder for a while. Like, 
well, this discussion...

> For lists I'm subscribed to but filter to folders and read in batch
> mode, I'll just change my filters to adapt.  That loses me the 
> adavantage
> of treating messages that actually *did* list me individually as a
> recipient differently,

not really. you STILL have List-ID. If it exists, you know it came 
through the server. If it doesn't, it's a direct copy. you haven't lost 
the ability to figure this out at all (and, in fact, it worked that way 
before. Your system, FWIW, fails if, say, I send email to the list and 
BCC you. Mine handles that appropriately...)

> Sorry if this message comes across as heated.

not at all. Now's the right time to put this on the table and hash it 
out. Better now than AFTER it ships...

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

No! No! Dead girl, OFF the table! -- Shrek



From alex at phred.org  Tue Oct 29 19:50:53 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:50:53 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Change to 2.1b4 for "personalisation" of
 to:
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210291258160.12348-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <20021029104804.Q669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Fuzzy wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Matthew Davis wrote:
> > Or the new way 2.1b4 sends mail (feature or bug?, barry will know).
> >
> > If you look the to: is your address and the cc: is the mailing list.
>
> It does lose me one benefit of using mailing lists,
> (having my ISP do actual delivery, so my DSL only
> has to send 1 copy of outbound list email with lots
> of envelope rcpt-to's). With this setup, every
> target address will have to be connected to
> separately. Lots more "work" for my DSL.

Is your ISP aware that you are using their email server in this way?
My generally very helpful ISP considers this abuse of resources and
will drop you as a customer if you are sending bulk email through
their server.

You can turn this feature off too.

Depending on the size of your lists a DSL line can do just fine.  I
have two ~1000 member lists each with 50-100 messages per day as well
as about 10 other less busy lists.  I host this on a 256kbps DSL
connection with no problems.  I do have outbound SMTP bandwidth
limited to 128kbps so that sending of digests isn't as noticable.

alex



From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Tue Oct 29 19:54:41 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:54:41 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021029185442.2802B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

> > What that means to me is that Chuq Von Rospach knows me, knows my email
> > address, deliberately decided to send this mail to me specifically,

> um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.

Well, obviously I can tell in this context that it isn't true, but that's
what the semantics of seing my address in a To: or a Cc: header are for
me.  What do *you* think the connotations should be?  If there weren't
any destination headers at all in RFC822 messages, and the only information
end-users got about source or recipient were the envelope information,
the situation would be different, but we *do* use To: and Cc: to mean
different things.

Whatever the merits of your arguments about what headers I should be using
to filter which lists, the fact is that taking something the original
composer of the mail entered in the To: field and moving it to the Cc:
field, and taking something the original composer didn't specify at all
and putting it in the To: field is losing information.  I can imagine
situations where you want to lose that piece of information, but not
very typical ones.

FWIW,

Jay



From alex at phred.org  Tue Oct 29 19:56:39 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> I think that filtering method is flawed, personally. I filter all list
> mail into a folder, using list-id, sender, mailing-list (damn you,
> yahoogroups), and occasionally a weird header from some funky list
> server that doesn't come near the standards except in leap years.
>
> that way, I know what's in my personal mailbox is personal mail. Even
> if it's a reply I got from a posting to a mail list. That allows me to
> carry on a discussion on a list in a timely manner, even if (for
> instance) I don't read the mail in the list folder for a while. Like,
> well, this discussion...

This doesn't work in a few situations:

1) You are using an email system which removes duplicates (based on
the Message-Id header).  Microsoft Exchange 2000 is one such system.
If Mailman is changing the headers so much perhaps it should stick a
new Message-Id on the message though.

2) You want replies to your messages to show up in your mailman-users
folder (or whatever), but colored in a different manner.  I do this.
If I'm away for a while and want to catch up on a folder I just scan
for cyan messages.  I don't want public replies to messages that I
posted on a mailing list to end up in my private inbox.

At best this should be a user option.  I checked, but it isn't there.

The only advantage that I see for putting the user's email address in
the To line (vs another header or the footer) is that it slips by the
default anti-spam rules on Hotmail and other products that assume
bcc'd messages are spam.

alex



From FawadKhan at AirgoNetworks.Com  Tue Oct 29 20:04:39 2002
From: FawadKhan at AirgoNetworks.Com (Fawad Khan)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:04:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New list Problems
Message-ID: <3FFBC907DD03A34CA4410C5C745DEB120108D5A5@wnimail.woodsidenet.com>

I am posting this one again:
 
I created a new list without any problems but now when I send a message
to that list it is not getting archived.
When I go to the webserver ad look at the error when trying to go to the
archive page, it tells me that :
 
File does not exist: /scratch/mailman/install/archives/public/nic-list 
 
When I go to this directory the file is there and linked to the private
directory
 
nic-list -> /scratch/mailman/install/archives/private/nic-list
nic-list.mbox -> /scratch/mailman/install/archives/private/nic-list.mbox
 
But the directory nic-list does not exist plus nic-list.mbox is empty.
 
After creating the list I did add following lines to /etc/aliases
 
# nic-list mailing list
## created: 28-Oct-2002 perforce
nic-list:           "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper post
nic-list"
nic-list-admin:     "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper mailowner
nic-list"
nic-list-request:   "|/scratch/mailman/install/mail/wrapper mailcmd
nic-list"
nic-list-owner:     nic-list-admin
 
And also ran newaliases command as a root.
 
Please let me know if anyone knows what I am doing wrong.
 
Thanks,
Fawad Khan
 <http://www.airgonet.com/> 
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021029/b5e2f461/attachment.htm 

From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 20:15:58 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:15:58 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org>
Message-ID: <DAFA9035-EB72-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:56  AM, alex wetmore wrote:

> The only advantage that I see for putting the user's email address in
> the To line (vs another header or the footer) is that it slips by the
> default anti-spam rules on Hotmail and other products that assume
> bcc'd messages are spam.
>

don't discount the importance of that... Bcc mail is increasingly being 
banned by sites. I'm not saying they should, but they are.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 20:20:13 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:20:13 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029185442.2802B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <7304E0FA-EB73-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:54  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:

> Well, obviously I can tell in this context that it isn't true, but 
> that's
> what the semantics of seing my address in a To: or a Cc: header are for
> me.  What do *you* think the connotations should be?

well, To: is who the email is sent to. CC: are other interested 
parties. From a practical necessity, we've put the list in as a CC: 
because otherwise you break replying to the list completely, which is a 
Bad Thing (so there's theory, and thre's making clients work as they're 
currently implemented.)

> Whatever the merits of your arguments about what headers I should be 
> using
> to filter which lists, the fact is that taking something the original
> composer of the mail entered in the To: field and moving it to the Cc:

But you're making a false assumption here, that the list was in the to 
line. That's not a safe assumption. it could be in to, cc or bcc. Just 
as you could be in to, cc or bcc. if you're assuming where the 
addresses are, you'll break at random occasions when users don't follow 
your ideas of appropriate. What mailman is doing is standardizing where 
that stuff ends up on redelivery, so if anything, it's more reliable 
than the existing system, which is random but assumes a certain 
behavior.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Stress is when you wake up screaming and you realize you haven't fallen 
asleep yet.



From gerald at impressive.net  Tue Oct 29 20:27:16 2002
From: gerald at impressive.net (Gerald Oskoboiny)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:27:16 -0500
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in
	postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <E1D383AE-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029171242.GD7004@impressive.net>
	<E1D383AE-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029192716.GE7004@impressive.net>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 09:50:16AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:12  AM, Gerald Oskoboiny wrote:
> >
> >ouch!
> >
> >Is this feature enabled by default? If so, I urge you to reconsider.
> 
> No. and I wouldn't expect it to be in 2.1.

whew.

> but I think it ought to be considered an indication of "future
> directions in thinking". hint hint.

<marge>hmmmmm...</marge>

> >I think the use of this feature should be strongly deprecated,
> >like reply-to munging.
> 
> why? I'm curious. Other than it's "not what I'm used to"?

I agree with almost everything Jay Sekora has written in this thread.

When I look at the headers of a message, I expect to see them as
they were composed by the message author. I don't think MLMs
should alter the contents of important headers like To:, From:,
Cc:, Subject:, Message-Id:, Reply-To:, except in very rare cases.

-- 
Gerald Oskoboiny <gerald at impressive.net>
http://impressive.net/people/gerald/


From sb.list at sb.org  Tue Oct 29 20:26:50 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:26:50 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <B9E44B2A.4B2C4%sb.list@sb.org>

On 10/29/02 1:38 PM, "Jay Sekora" <jay at ccs.neu.edu> wrote:

> Back to filtering, I filter lots of my mailing lists into separate
> folders, but I only do so if my own address doesn't appear in the
> destination headers, because in that case I consider the message addressed
> to me as an individual as well as to the list, and I want it to end
> up in the place where mail-addressed-to-me-as-an-individual goes.
> 
> With this change that distinction is lost.  I can no longer tell (except
> by seeing how many copies of a message I got, which may break in other
> ways if a message is sent to multiple lists) whether I was singled out
> as a particular more-interested recipient of a message, or if I got it
> only because I'm subscribed to a list.

Can't you filter on messages with you in the To: line and NOT List-Id:? That
would identify all non-list messages to you.

 - Stoney



From john at io.com  Tue Oct 29 20:33:08 2002
From: john at io.com (John Buttery)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:33:08 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>

* Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> [2002-10-29 10:45:28 -0800]:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:38  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:
> >Because it's simply a lie.  I got this mail with the headers:
> 
> sorry. don't agree.
 
  "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is what
you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?  It's in
plain black and white.

> >What that means to me is that Chuq Von Rospach knows me, knows my email
> >address, deliberately decided to send this mail to me specifically,
> 
> um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.

  Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have your
address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  Hint: you can't.  (Of
course, I acknowledge that sending a copy directly to a person who is
already subscribed to the list is a bit silly/redundant, but I don't see
that that dilutes the point at all.  In five seconds I can think of a
case where this would happen...I see a mail off the list, I don't know
someone is subscribed, so I send them my followup but also CC the list
because I think it pertains there also.  With this new function, you've
just erased anybody's ability to tell the difference between those two
situations.)
  Saying you "don't buy" something that someone has stated is their
opinion/feeling is indefensible.  :)
 
> >Back to filtering, I filter lots of my mailing lists into separate
> >folders, but I only do so if my own address doesn't appear in the
> >destination headers, because in that case I consider the message 
> >addressed
> >to me as an individual as well as to the list, and I want it to end
> >up in the place where mail-addressed-to-me-as-an-individual goes.
> >
> >With this change that distinction is lost.  I can no longer tell
> 
> I think that filtering method is flawed, personally. I filter all list 
> mail into a folder, using list-id, sender, mailing-list (damn you, 
> yahoogroups), and occasionally a weird header from some funky list 
> server that doesn't come near the standards except in leap years.
> 
> that way, I know what's in my personal mailbox is personal mail. Even 
> if it's a reply I got from a posting to a mail list. That allows me to 
> carry on a discussion on a list in a timely manner, even if (for 
> instance) I don't read the mail in the list folder for a while. Like, 
> well, this discussion...

  When two mails are sent out, I'll get one filtered into my folder for
the list, and the other one sent to my main inbox; that's the way the
sender intended it, and that's the way I want it.  That doesn't happen
anymore, because there's actually only one email, since you've included
a fake header.  You're saying a (copy of an) email has been sent
directly to me when it hasn't.

> >For lists I'm subscribed to but filter to folders and read in batch
> >mode, I'll just change my filters to adapt.  That loses me the 
> >adavantage
> >of treating messages that actually *did* list me individually as a
> >recipient differently,
> 
> not really. you STILL have List-ID. If it exists, you know it came 
> through the server. If it doesn't, it's a direct copy. you haven't lost 
> the ability to figure this out at all (and, in fact, it worked that way 
> before. Your system, FWIW, fails if, say, I send email to the list and 
> BCC you. Mine handles that appropriately...)

  True...but should be unecessary.  Besides, filtering into folders is
only one application of header matching, as others have pointed out.
Colorization of lines (based on whether your exact address is in the
headers somewhere) in a message index is another, and List-ID won't help
you on that one. :)
  But really, this is all getting away from the original philosophical
point that an address that a message was not sent to should not be faked
into the headers.

> >Sorry if this message comes across as heated.
> 
> not at all. Now's the right time to put this on the table and hash it 
> out. Better now than AFTER it ships...

  Break out the asbestos suits!  :p

  And again, like someone else said, it's not really that bad as long as
it's configurable (and even better if it's not the default).  BUT, I
do/will consider it a step backwards for any lists I'm on to implement.
Is there any chance of making a special setting so that all of the
personalization options _except_ this one can be applied to an account?
I'm going out on a limb here, but I think I may not be the only one who
would like to see that.  :)

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John Buttery
                                     (Web page temporarily unavailable)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021029/181dd6c7/attachment.pgp 

From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Tue Oct 29 20:35:12 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:35:12 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021029193513.653CB13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

> well, To: is who the email is sent to. CC: are other interested 
> parties.

And who gets to decide that - the actual creator of the content who
understands what the message is about, or a piece of infrastructure
software that treats all messages it receives the same way?

I don't mind the subject-munging that mailman does if the list owner
adds an identifying tag because that's added to the existing header
the composer typed; the original information is still there.

Do you think it would make sense, on most lists, to *replace* the 
subject with (eg) "Subject: Mail from $sender to $listname on $date"?
That's the same sort of thing.

> > Whatever the merits of your arguments about what headers I should be 
> > using
> > to filter which lists, the fact is that taking something the original
> > composer of the mail entered in the To: field and moving it to the Cc:

> But you're making a false assumption here, that the list was in the to 
> line. That's not a safe assumption.

No, I'm not making that assumption at all.

I'm assuming that the person who typed in the message put the list
address where s/he thought it belonged.  I want to *know* where that
person thought it belonged.  I know that the list might be in the
To: line, in the Cc: line, in the Apparently-To: line added by an MTA,
or not reflected in the RFC822 headers at all, and I want to be able
to distinguish those cases.

> it could be in to, cc or bcc. Just 
> as you could be in to, cc or bcc. if you're assuming where the 
> addresses are, you'll break at random occasions when users don't follow 
> your ideas of appropriate. What mailman is doing is standardizing where 
> that stuff ends up on redelivery, so if anything, it's more reliable 
> than the existing system, which is random but assumes a certain 
> behavior.

Whether I put an address in the To: list or the Cc: list or the Bcc:
list when I compose a message is *not* random, but deliberately
chosen.  I don't *want* it "standardized" - it's content-bearing.

FWIW,

Jay


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 20:44:45 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:44:45 -0800
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in
	postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <20021029192716.GE7004@impressive.net>
Message-ID: <E03C3DE2-EB76-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:27  AM, Gerald Oskoboiny wrote:

>
> I agree with almost everything Jay Sekora has written in this thread.

it's too bad these issues didn't come up as this got hashed out on 
mailman-developers. it's good that it's going to get hashed out while 
it's still in beta. there's probably a "hint hint" in there somewhere...

> When I look at the headers of a message, I expect to see them as
> they were composed by the message author. I don't think MLMs
> should alter the contents of important headers like To:, From:,
> Cc:, Subject:, Message-Id:, Reply-To:, except in very rare cases.

Except MLMs have a long tradition of modifying them. If you CC or BCC a 
list, it generally rewrites itself into the to line. We've changed that 
to CC. there's a long tradition of modifying subject (list flags for 
one, cleaning up "Re:" issues for another) and reply-to. These 
modifications are quite common and accepted.

I don't think what's being done is out of the ordinary. I do  think 
it's not "what we're used to", but I think that's because there are 
some basic assumptions about how this stuff works have been rethought. 
the key one is "mailing list manager as bulk e-mailer". Traditionally, 
true. But a basic requirement? I don't think so. Instead, it was more a 
situation forced on us by capacity limitations, which are rapidly being 
relaxed. Since (most of us) have increased processing capability and 
network, we should figure out how to properly operate in that 
environment, where we're doing what a server OUGHT to do once the 
shackles are removed (and since we know not everyone has those 
capabilities, it's not a requirement to use them...).

to me, saying we shouldn't innovate here is like telling HTML people to 
stop at HTML 3.2 and GIFs, and forget all that newer stuff. The reality 
is, most MLMs act pretty much like they acted back in the early 80's. 
the net and e-mail itself have changed radically, this is the first 
step in trying to make sure the MLM environment adapts to and takes 
advantage of all of those changes and innovations, too.

There are a lot of things we're trying to do to get away from "it was 
good enough for my grandfather...." mode in MLM. another area you folks 
haven't even started yelling about yet is in the MIME world. 2.1 is 
taking the first steps from dealing with MIME as a pain in the ass that 
should be thrown out to something that is an integral part of e-mail 
that has to be managed (and can be taken advantage of). The days when 
mime is handled by simply stripping it out are ending, because it's 
time to sell that old black and white TV and buy a color one... 
(giggle).


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam my clothes down here, will you?



From alex at phred.org  Tue Oct 29 20:55:56 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 11:55:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL
 in postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <E03C3DE2-EB76-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021029115325.W669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:27  AM, Gerald Oskoboiny wrote:
> > I agree with almost everything Jay Sekora has written in this thread.
>
> it's too bad these issues didn't come up as this got hashed out on
> mailman-developers. it's good that it's going to get hashed out while
> it's still in beta. there's probably a "hint hint" in there somewhere...

A lot of us are users and not developers, but we still have feelings
(strong ones in this case) on major changes like this.  Perhaps
mailman-users was the right place for the discussion, not
mailman-developers.

I work on a commercial email product and so I can't legally (as
defined by my company's lawyers) look at the mailman source code.  For
that reason I never joined the developers list.

Do we need a mailman-advanced-users list?

alex



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 21:08:28 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:08:28 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029193513.653CB13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <3052CE65-EB7A-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:35  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:

>> well, To: is who the email is sent to. CC: are other interested
>> parties.
>
> And who gets to decide that - the actual creator of the content who
> understands what the message is about, or a piece of infrastructure
> software that treats all messages it receives the same way?

Now we start getting into heavy philosophical issues about all this. 
Which means there are likely no "right" answers in an objective sense. 
I say that up front, just in case. I want folks to know I'm not arguing 
"I'm right", but "this is how I think it ought to be". Maybe a minor 
semantical shift, but a key one, IMHO.

> I don't mind the subject-munging that mailman does if the list owner
> adds an identifying tag because that's added to the existing header
> the composer typed; the original information is still there.

OTOH, I *really* hate subject munging. here's why: my research shows 
that the subject line is the A-number-1 determinator of whether a user 
opens a piece of email or not. That's THE key item of information for 
whether it gets deleted out of the summary listing unread or not.

The subject line is ALREADY seriously challenged as an information 
source -- effectively, it's limited to about 50 characters by most mail 
clients, in some cases, that can be as low as 35 characters in some 
mail clients.

So when you tell me that the original author only has 50 characters to 
convince someone to open their piece of email, but you think it's okay 
for the MLM to take 10-15% of that space, and the 10-15% PRIME space at 
the front of the line, to install a flag that already exists elsewhere 
in the headers (list-id, sender, etc), I have problems with that. 
You've effectively kicked the user out of a good chunk of his own space 
advertising why someone should read that message, and stuffed in the 
equivalent of a pop-up ad into that space for the mailing list.

I consider that a horrible tradeoff. I won't go so far as to call it an 
abuse of the subject line, but I think it's really hurting the intent 
of the user, which is to give them the ability to convince someone to 
read that message.

To me, that's a much bigger sin than regularizing how the To and CC are 
presented, because if nothing else, that's an attempt to make it easier 
to use that information without depending on how the original user 
presented it. After all, you're dependin on them doing the to: list, 
CC: you, and while that might be true, it's not guaranteed true. And 
MLMs have played with it as well. This is just a new take on how to 
structure it.

> Do you think it would make sense, on most lists, to *replace* the
> subject with (eg) "Subject: Mail from $sender to $listname on $date"?
> That's the same sort of thing.

No. I argue the opposite, that subject line is one of the headers taht 
I consider MOST untouchable.

> I'm assuming that the person who typed in the message put the list
> address where s/he thought it belonged.  I want to *know* where that
> person thought it belonged.

then why don't you care what the person put in the subject line? 
addresses are -- addresses. The subject line is the author's own 
thought on the piece of email. But it's okay to play with that, but not 
standardize the look of the addresses? To/cc/bcc is really an 
artificial construct in the email world, anyway, a hangover from the 
paper days. The subject line is the author's knock on your front door.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

IMHO: Jargon. Acronym for In My Humble Opinion. Used to flag as an 
opinion
something that is clearly from context an opinion to everyone except the
mentally dense. Opinions flagged by IMHO are actually rarely humble. 
IMHO.
     (source: third unabridged dictionary of chuqui-isms).



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 21:30:06 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:30:06 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>
Message-ID: <363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:33  AM, John Buttery wrote:

>   "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
> what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is what
> you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?  It's in
> plain black and white.

we aren't re-addressing. We're standardizing the way the existing 
addresses are presented.

>> um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.
>
>   Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have your
> address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  Hint: you can't.

sure I can. If it went through the list server, it has a List-ID 
attached. So it's clear which one came from where.

> (Of
> course, I acknowledge that sending a copy directly to a person who is
> already subscribed to the list is a bit silly/redundant,

See, I don't agree with that, either. I've explained how I take 
advantage of this in my filtering to continue discussions I'm involved 
in without having to paw through all my list mail...

>   Saying you "don't buy" something that someone has stated is their
> opinion/feeling is indefensible.  :)

yeah, but when a situation is arguably a subjective decision in the 
first place, sometimes it's all you get.

>   When two mails are sent out, I'll get one filtered into my folder for
> the list, and the other one sent to my main inbox; that's the way the
> sender intended it, and that's the way I want it.

and if you filter on list-id, that's how you'll get it no matter who 
does what to the to/cc/bcc. If you DON'T filter on list-id, you depend 
on the end users doing what you expect them to do. That's a filtering 
method guaranteed to fail randomly.

filtering list mail based on to/cc is a flawed approach. to argue that 
we can't break what's broken by definition is a flawed argument. IMHO.

>   True...but should be unecessary.

but it is, because it's the ONLY reliable filtering tool you have. the 
others depend on people doing what you consider "right", so they fail 
when those users don't. If anything, this new header format 
rationalizes that so decisions by the end users can't break the 
filtering, if you absolutely MUST use to/from/cc for some reason.

> Colorization of lines (based on whether your exact address is in the
> headers somewhere) in a message index is another, and List-ID won't 
> help
> you on that one. :)

and if you'll notice, I haven't refuted that one. it's a point that 
needs consideration.


>   But really, this is all getting away from the original philosophical
> point that an address that a message was not sent to should not be 
> faked
> into the headers.

I'd argue whether that's true.

I guess I'm arguing that it's the end of the days of "bulk" mail, and 
the beginning of the days of "mass" mail. There are significant 
semantical differences and advantages. To use paper-mail analogies, 
it's time to move from sending out everything to "Resident", and start 
adding enough intelligence to the system so that it actually shows up 
with your name on it.

>


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 21:46:29 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:46:29 -0500
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users]
	Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>
Message-ID: <15806.62373.266277.344609@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


First off, yes, I turned on personalization for this list, and yes, I
should have notified the list members before doing this.  I talked it
over with the list owners, but that clearly wasn't enough.  My
apologies.

But don't forget your special place of honor <wink> as guinea pigs for
the new software, so complaints are welcome and taken in that
constructive spirit too!

>>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham
>>>>> <Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk> writes:

    NM> However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To
    NM> line highly irritating (even more so if I use list specific
    NM> delivery addresses).

You're not the only person who has complained about that, and I can
see the point.  I think Chuq was lobbying for not putting the
recipient's address in the To line, but I disagreed because I thought
it would be friendlier.  Chuq was probably right and I was probably
wrong.

So I'm willing to change that so that the To header is no different
regardless of whether personalization is enabled or not.  Ideally, we
might want YACV (yet another configuration variable), but I'll default
to yagni until we have a use case for otherwise.
    
As for any filters you might have in place, I think Chuq's right, you
/should/ be filtering on List-ID.  I can sympathize with filters on To
headers, and my backtracking on this decision will fix that.  I don't
have much sympathy for filters on Sender headers.  I put Sender
squarely in the implementation detail corner so I feel like I can
change that if necessary.  You shouldn't be relying on Sender anyway
because it's only required if different than the From header.

HTH,
-Barry


From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 21:49:53 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:49:53 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
References: <1035910329.23550.48.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
	<5C3BB5C6-EB65-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15806.62577.567295.537520@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> On the other hand, people have to remember this list is about
    CVR> mailman, so testing mailman on it is a necessary evil, and
    CVR> things are going to happen that, ahem, aren't always what's
    CVR> planned. The joy of beta code is even if you do get all the
    CVR> warnings, stuff's going to change in ways that you may not be
    CVR> ready for (because it might be broken...)

I'll just add that Chuq's been exceedingly patient with the change to
MM2.1 on this list.  He's not mentioning the mailbombing the list
owners got this morning because the bounce processor had a little bug
in it.

(Hey Chuq, I /think/ I just nailed this one. ;)

fixed-in-cvs-ly y'rs,
-Barry


From john at netrom.com  Tue Oct 29 21:52:16 2002
From: john at netrom.com (John Vozza)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:52:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re:
	[Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <15806.62373.266277.344609@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210291549570.4696-100000@mike.netrom.com>

Whatever change you made also broke the unsubscribe since I have been
trying to get off the list since you started the "personalization" stuff.

(And yes, I did send email's to the proper address as indicated in the
message headers...)

Regards

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NetRom Internet Services			973-208-1339 voice
john at netrom.com					973-208-0942 fax
http://www.netrom.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Barry A. Warsaw wrote:

>
> First off, yes, I turned on personalization for this list, and yes, I
> should have notified the list members before doing this.  I talked it
> over with the list owners, but that clearly wasn't enough.  My
> apologies.
>
> But don't forget your special place of honor <wink> as guinea pigs for
> the new software, so complaints are welcome and taken in that
> constructive spirit too!
>
> >>>>> "NM" == Nigel Metheringham
> >>>>> <Nigel.Metheringham at dev.intechnology.co.uk> writes:
>
>     NM> However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To
>     NM> line highly irritating (even more so if I use list specific
>     NM> delivery addresses).
>
> You're not the only person who has complained about that, and I can
> see the point.  I think Chuq was lobbying for not putting the
> recipient's address in the To line, but I disagreed because I thought
> it would be friendlier.  Chuq was probably right and I was probably
> wrong.
>
> So I'm willing to change that so that the To header is no different
> regardless of whether personalization is enabled or not.  Ideally, we
> might want YACV (yet another configuration variable), but I'll default
> to yagni until we have a use case for otherwise.
>
> As for any filters you might have in place, I think Chuq's right, you
> /should/ be filtering on List-ID.  I can sympathize with filters on To
> headers, and my backtracking on this decision will fix that.  I don't
> have much sympathy for filters on Sender headers.  I put Sender
> squarely in the implementation detail corner so I feel like I can
> change that if necessary.  You shouldn't be relying on Sender anyway
> because it's only required if different than the From header.
>
> HTH,
> -Barry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
>



From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 21:55:38 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:55:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Change to 2.1b4 for "personalisation" of to:
References: <20021029092102.A16767@dogpound.vnet.net>
	<Pine.BSF.4.44.0210291258160.12348-100000@pooh.ASARian.org>
Message-ID: <15806.62922.23784.705045@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "fuzzy" ==   <fuzzy at pooh.asarian.org> writes:

    fuzzy> It does lose me one benefit of using mailing lists,
    fuzzy> (having my ISP do actual delivery, so my DSL only
    fuzzy> has to send 1 copy of outbound list email with lots
    fuzzy> of envelope rcpt-to's). With this setup, every
    fuzzy> target address will have to be connected to
    fuzzy> separately. Lots more "work" for my DSL.

You're right that personalization (+ verp) requires more bandwidth and
system resources, which is why the site administrator must enable it
before any of your list admins can turn it on.

Just to be clear, personalization and verp options are not
site-enabled by default.  Once your site admin enables them, they
still aren't enabled by default for each list.

-Barry


From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 22:14:42 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:14:42 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
References: <20021029193513.653CB13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<3052CE65-EB7A-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <15806.64066.77458.218783@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:

    CVR> The subject line is ALREADY seriously challenged as an
    CVR> information source -- effectively, it's limited to about 50
    CVR> characters by most mail clients, in some cases, that can be
    CVR> as low as 35 characters in some mail clients.

    CVR> So when you tell me that the original author only has 50
    CVR> characters to convince someone to open their piece of email,
    CVR> but you think it's okay for the MLM to take 10-15% of that
    CVR> space, and the 10-15% PRIME space at the front of the line,
    CVR> to install a flag that already exists elsewhere in the
    CVR> headers (list-id, sender, etc), I have problems with
    CVR> that. You've effectively kicked the user out of a good chunk
    CVR> of his own space advertising why someone should read that
    CVR> message, and stuffed in the equivalent of a pop-up ad into
    CVR> that space for the mailing list.

Very interesting point!
-Barry



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Tue Oct 29 22:21:30 2002
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:21:30 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <15806.62577.567295.537520@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
References: <1035910329.23550.48.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>
	<5C3BB5C6-EB65-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<15806.62577.567295.537520@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <20021029132130.01fa8fc7.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:49:53 -0500
barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw) wrote:

> 
> >>>>> "CVR" == Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> writes:
> 
>     CVR> On the other hand, people have to remember this list is
>     CVR> about mailman, so testing mailman on it is a necessary
>     CVR> evil, and things are going to happen that, ahem, aren't
>     CVR> always what's planned. The joy of beta code is even if
>     CVR> you do get all the warnings, stuff's going to change in
>     CVR> ways that you may not be ready for (because it might be
>     CVR> broken...)
> 
> I'll just add that Chuq's been exceedingly patient with the change
> to MM2.1 on this list.  He's not mentioning the mailbombing the
> list owners got this morning because the bounce processor had a
> little bug in it.
> 
> (Hey Chuq, I /think/ I just nailed this one. ;)
> 
> fixed-in-cvs-ly y'rs,
> -Barry

It sounds like we need to be careful moving from 2.1b3 to 2.1b4
then.

--
Raquel
============================================================
Men show their characters in nothing more clearly than in what they
think laughable.
  --Johann Wolfgang von Goethe



From vanhorn at whidbey.com  Tue Oct 29 22:29:39 2002
From: vanhorn at whidbey.com (G. Armour Van Horn)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:29:39 -0800
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re: 
 [Mailman-Users]Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<15806.62373.266277.344609@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <3DBEFDC3.7F529F99@whidbey.com>

"Barry A. Warsaw" wrote:

> As for any filters you might have in place, I think Chuq's right, you
> /should/ be filtering on List-ID.  I can sympathize with filters on To
> headers, and my backtracking on this decision will fix that.  I don't
> have much sympathy for filters on Sender headers.  I put Sender
> squarely in the implementation detail corner so I feel like I can
> change that if necessary.  You shouldn't be relying on Sender anyway
> because it's only required if different than the From header.

Well, you can argue this on a philosophical basis, or on an enginerring "best
practice" basis, but in the real world you only have so many things that a user
can filter on. Netscape Mesenger only allows specific pre-configured headers to
be used, and List-ID isn't one of them. To, CC, subject, sender, date, status,
priority, and body. Body, of course, is incredibly slow, so I never use that one.
Eudora adds "Any Header" which would at least allow List-ID to be noticed, but
only in a context in which some string (like "mailman-users") will appear
multiple times.

Maybe I should look again at moving my Messenger Mail to Mozilla, but previous
tests show it is only capable of importing about half of my In box, so I don't
exactly consider that appealing.

In other words, the filtering is going to be done based on the capabilities of
the client. Something that is theoretically better may not be terrible useful.

Van


--
----------------------------------------------------------
Sign up now for Quotes of the Day, a handful of quotations
on a theme delivered every morning.
Enlightenment! Daily, for free!
mailto:twisted at whidbey.com?subject=Subscribe_QOTD

For web hosting and maintenance,
visit Van's home page: http://www.domainvanhorn.com/van/
----------------------------------------------------------




From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Tue Oct 29 22:57:53 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:57:53 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021029215754.6CF2013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

[Chuq's content reordered somewhat to suit the flow of my replies.]

> > I don't mind the subject-munging that mailman does if the list owner
> > adds an identifying tag because that's added to the existing header
> > the composer typed; the original information is still there.

> OTOH, I *really* hate subject munging. here's why: my research shows 
> that the subject line is the A-number-1 determinator of whether a user 
> opens a piece of email or not. That's THE key item of information for 
> whether it gets deleted out of the summary listing unread or not.

Actually, I shouldn't have said I don't mind it.  I should have said 
I minded it a little bit, but not a lot.  But I'd mind it a lot more 
if the munging actually *removed* some of the text the user put there.
As it is, it's an annoyance, but I can still get the original information 
(although it might be messed up somewhat by line-wrapping).

Something analagous in the To: and Cc: lines would be if Mailman changed:

From: Jay Sekora <jay at ccs.neu.edu>
To: mailman-users at python.org

to

From: Jay Sekora via mailman-users at python.org <jay at ccs.neu.edu>
To: mailman-users at python.org

or to

From: Jay Sekora <jay at ccs.neu.edu>
To: mailman-users at python.org (for chuqui at plaidworks.com)

Both of those options would annoy me, but in both cases they add information 
rather than subtracting it.  But my understanding is that the new 
personalization mechanisms will make the following sets of headers 
indistinguishable, if you at example.org is subscribed to list at example.org:

From: me at example.org
To: you at example.org
Cc: list at example.org

From: me at example.org
To: list at example.org

To me, that's a *HUGE* distinction in the intent of the author.  If 
I were composing mail for a list that did this sort of rewriting, 
I'd probably eventually feel compelled to paraphrase the header information 
in the body of the message, along the lines of "(This message is for 
<you at example.org>, including the list in case anybody else is interested.)" 
or something like that.

> To me, [subject rewriting is] a much bigger sin than regularizing how
> the To and CC are presented, because if nothing else, that's an
> attempt to make it easier to use that information without depending
> on how the original user presented it. After all, you're dependin on
> them doing the to: list, CC: you, and while that might be true, it's
> not guaranteed true. And MLMs have played with it as well. This is
> just a new take on how to structure it.

In my opinion, the From:, To:, Cc:, and Subject: headings are all equally 
"sacred"; they all contain information chosen by the composer of the 
message.  And if you rewrite the To: and Cc: headers because you assume 
message composers are too stupid to use them properly, you're ruining 
things for the (vast majority in my experience) people who do use 
them properly.

If the theory is that RFC822 headers should be thrown out _in toto_ and we
should start over from scratch, well, that's interesting an interesting
research topic (and I think current Internet email standards may be
nearing the end of their shelf life), but I don't think it's realistic
for existing mailing lists.

> > Do you think it would make sense, on most lists, to *replace* the
> > subject with (eg) "Subject: Mail from $sender to $listname on $date"?
> > That's the same sort of thing.

> No. I argue the opposite, that subject line is one of the headers taht 
> I consider MOST untouchable.

And I see From:, To:, and Cc: in the same category.  If I were forced
to throw away one of those four, it would be Cc:, but if I had to throw
away two of those four, they'd be Cc: and Subject:.

> > I'm assuming that the person who typed in the message put the list
> > address where s/he thought it belonged.  I want to *know* where that
> > person thought it belonged.

> then why don't you care what the person put in the subject line?

I do, and I was using the issue of the subject line to explain how 
I felt about the To: line.  In an ideal world, the list software wouldn't 
mess with either one.  In a pragmatic world, I guess I'd be OK with 
the list adding some commentary to To: or Cc:, the way it does with 
Subject:, as long as it didn't actually move things around from one 
header to another, but I wouldn't be thrilled with it.

> addresses are -- addresses.

Addresses represent people, or groups of people, and humans make
distinctions among people and groups of people.  Who a message is
addressed to is a huge and crucial part of the social context of the
message.

The following two messages are very different:

  To: mailman-users at python.org
  
  The problem of drug and alcohol abuse in America's youth is a serious
  one, but I think there are few problems that can't be solved by 
  judicious application of pretzels.

and

  To: president at whitehouse.gov
  Cc: mailman-users at python.org
  
  The problem of drug and alcohol abuse in America's youth is a serious
  one, but I think there are few problems that can't be solved by 
  judicious application of pretzels.

Those two messages are significantly different in tone even in the 
unlikely event that <president at whitehouse.gov> happens to be subscribed 
to mailman-users.

> The subject line is the author's own 
> thought on the piece of email.

And the To: and Cc: headers are the author's own thought about who 
the email is for, and that's very important information.

> To/cc/bcc is really an artificial construct in the email world,
> anyway, a hangover from the paper days.

But those conventions existed in the days of paper memos because people
felt they communicated something important.  We still need to communicate 
the same meaning one way or another, and there's a widespread, widely
accepted means of doing that in email.  If we throw that away, or 
break its usefulness for that purpose, people writing and reading 
email will need to find a new mechanism to accomplish the same thing.

> The subject line is the author's knock on your front door.

I pay much more attention to the From: line, for what it's worth.

FWIW,

Jay


From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 23:03:44 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:03:44 -0500
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re: 
 [Mailman-Users]Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
References: <1DB96AB4-EB5D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<1035910530.3225.47.camel@gaspode.localnet>
	<15806.62373.266277.344609@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
	<3DBEFDC3.7F529F99@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <15807.1472.154700.823286@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "GAVH" == G Armour Van Horn <vanhorn at whidbey.com> writes:

    >> I put Sender squarely in the implementation detail corner so I
    >> feel like I can change that if necessary.  You shouldn't be
    >> relying on Sender anyway because it's only required if
    >> different than the From header.

    GAVH> Well, you can argue this on a philosophical basis, or on an
    GAVH> enginerring "best practice" basis, but in the real world you
    GAVH> only have so many things that a user can filter on.

But you can't rely on the Sender header being there at all, so it
makes a poor choice for filtering on anyway.
    
-Barry


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Tue Oct 29 23:04:46 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:04:46 -0800
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re:
	[Mailman-Users]Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <3DBEFDC3.7F529F99@whidbey.com>
Message-ID: <6FAC1DE6-EB8A-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 01:29  PM, G. Armour Van Horn wrote:

> can filter on. Netscape Mesenger only allows specific pre-configured 
> headers to
> be used, and List-ID isn't one of them.

and at some point, you have to decide not to wait for everyone else to 
get their act together, because they won't unless you push them. we 
don't want to stick with HTML 3.2 and black and white TVs forever, do 
we?

> In other words, the filtering is going to be done based on the 
> capabilities of
> the client. Something that is theoretically better may not be terrible 
> useful.
>

the fact that some people using some clients are going to be 
inconvenienced is not necessarily an excuse to force everyone else to 
be inconvenienced by avoiding innovations. there's no 100% solution to 
any of this. the trick is to know when it's time to stop waiting and 
move forward.




>
-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.



From bob at nleaudio.com  Tue Oct 29 23:02:09 2002
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:02:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Personalization stuff
References: <E186eTF-0003jZ-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <3DBF0561.782543DF@nleaudio.com>

Barry Wrote:
>     NM> However I find the addition of my delivery address into the To
>     NM> line highly irritating (even more so if I use list specific
>     NM> delivery addresses).
> 
> You're not the only person who has complained about that, and I can
> see the point.  I think Chuq was lobbying for not putting the
> recipient's address in the To line, but I disagreed because I thought
> it would be friendlier.  Chuq was probably right and I was probably
> wrong.
> 
> So I'm willing to change that so that the To header is no different
> regardless of whether personalization is enabled or not.  Ideally, we
> might want YACV (yet another configuration variable), but I'll default
> to yagni until we have a use case for otherwise.

No, No, NO!  Please keep the To: be the recipient, or at least allow that as a 
configuration thing.  It would fix another problem that I've had with .procmail 
scripts.  Barry, PLEASE leave the option you currently have!

Bob


From barry at python.org  Tue Oct 29 23:17:36 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 17:17:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Personalization stuff
References: <E186eTF-0003jZ-00@mail.python.org>
	<3DBF0561.782543DF@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <15807.2304.3579.729378@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "bob" ==   <bob at nleaudio.com> writes:

    bob> No, No, NO!  Please keep the To: be the recipient, or at
    bob> least allow that as a configuration thing.  It would fix
    bob> another problem that I've had with .procmail scripts.  Barry,
    bob> PLEASE leave the option you currently have!

Could you describe that problem in more detail?
-Barry


From cooleydd at pacbell.net  Wed Oct 30 01:10:30 2002
From: cooleydd at pacbell.net (Don Cooley)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:10:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List ID
In-Reply-To: <15807.2304.3579.729378@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFOEJNPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>

May I ask a perfectible dumb question from an owner of many Mailman
lists.

My header shows my list ID as the following:
     List-Id: A Discussion of Alternatives to Traditional Prostate
Cancer Treatments <alternatives.phcagroups.org>

What part of that is the list ID that is being discussed and how would
this be used in the Outlook 2000 Rules Wizard?

Example please!

Don
      Order your "Prostate-Help CD-ROM" at
            http://www.cooleyville.com/cancer/cacdrom.htm
      Prostate-Help Web Site, Aubrey's latest book on PCa,
      Dr. Myers Prostate Forums, and more all included.
      Don Cooley, call 408 268-6400 if I can help!
             Web site - http://prostate-help.com



From alex at phred.org  Wed Oct 30 01:30:27 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:30:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021029215754.6CF2013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <20021029162941.H669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Jay Sekora wrote:
> [Chuq's content reordered somewhat to suit the flow of my replies.]
> > > I don't mind the subject-munging that mailman does if the list owner
> > > adds an identifying tag because that's added to the existing header
> > > the composer typed; the original information is still there.
>
> > OTOH, I *really* hate subject munging. here's why: my research shows
> > that the subject line is the A-number-1 determinator of whether a user
> > opens a piece of email or not. That's THE key item of information for
> > whether it gets deleted out of the summary listing unread or not.
>
> Actually, I shouldn't have said I don't mind it.  I should have said
> I minded it a little bit, but not a lot.  But I'd mind it a lot more
> if the munging actually *removed* some of the text the user put there.
> As it is, it's an annoyance, but I can still get the original information
> (although it might be messed up somewhat by line-wrapping).

It is removing something that the user put there.  On this reply to
you I have your address on the To line because I'm using Reply to All.
In the version that I'll get back from the list your name won't be
there anymore (along with anyone else who I put on the To or Cc
lines).

alex



From rhorer at swbell.net  Wed Oct 30 02:54:25 2002
From: rhorer at swbell.net (Kyle Rhorer)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:54:25 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021029215754.6CF2013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
References: <20021029215754.6CF2013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <200210291954.25574.rhorer@swbell.net>

On Tuesday 29 October 2002 15:57, Jay Sekora wrote:
> > addresses are -- addresses.
>
> Addresses represent people, or groups of people, and humans make
> distinctions among people and groups of people.  Who a message is
> addressed to is a huge and crucial part of the social context of the
> message.

Agreed.  As someone else pointed out, there are huge differences in 
meaning between snail mail addressed to "Resident", "Valued Customer", 
and "Mr. Samuel Bigshot, Esq.".  There's also a difference between a 
hand-addressed note and one where the address is typewritten.  If Jane 
Busy gives a hand-written note to her personal assistant as she runs 
out the office door to catch a plane with the instructions "Please mail 
this", and the assistant types the address onto a standard-issue 
letterhead envelope and runs it through the postage meter, I am going 
to treat that very differently than if the letter arrives with a 
handwritten recipient address and an old-fashioned stamp.  I'm also 
likely to be quite upset when I finally get around to opening the 
envelope with the typewritten address only to find out it is not a 
mass-mailed solicitation, but rather a personal (and possibly 
time-sensitive) note that Jane cared enough to hand write.  I feel that 
the analogy translates fairly well to email.

I can't say that I have thought the whole Mailman personalization/header 
munging issue through thoroughly enough to prefer one behavior over the 
other.  I just figured a slightly different perspective might help the 
discussion find its way toward the right direction, whatever that may 
be.

Kyle
-- 
Since the general civilizations of mankind, I believe there are more
instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual
and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden
usurpations.
                                                  -James Madison




From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 30 03:08:29 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:08:29 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:08:56 PST." <20021029100654.I669-100000@phred.org> 
References: <20021029100654.I669-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <19865.1035943709@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:08:56 -0800 (PST) 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:

> The problem with personalization in the To: header is that I can't
> tell if email is to me or just to the list.

Be careful here in distinguishing limitations and models of your MUA as
problems with external systems.  The fact that you MUA exposes specific
features and the manner you take advantage of them is something between
you and your MUA and has little to do with Mailman.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 03:51:53 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 18:51:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List ID
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFOEJNPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <8BFE032D-EBB2-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 04:10  PM, Don Cooley wrote:

> My header shows my list ID as the following:
>      List-Id: A Discussion of Alternatives to Traditional Prostate
> Cancer Treatments <alternatives.phcagroups.org>
>
> What part of that is the list ID that is being discussed and how would
> this be used in the Outlook 2000 Rules Wizard?
>

This is your short description for the list: A Discussion of 
Alternatives to Traditional Prostate Cancer Treatments

This is the ID of your list: alternatives.phcagroups.org

what I usually do is set up a filter something similar to (your exact 
setup will vary, this isn't outlook syntax)

Header "list-id" contains "alternatives.phcagroups.org".

If I'm on multiple mail lists, I'll do a single filter for the site:

Header "list-id" contains "phcagroups.org".

In theory, you could filter all lists to a folder with something like:

Header "list-id" exists

or

Header "list-id" not empty

if you only use a single "lists" folder.

the ability to use fewer rules is something you really can't do with 
Sender or filtering on to/cc.




-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh
nervously and change the subject.



From bronto at csd-bes.net  Wed Oct 30 04:23:29 2002
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (bronto)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:23:29 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <A871D3DA-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <A871D3DA-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>

Eudora, both Mac and Windows, I consider a good mail client.  Cross 
platform is a requirement for me.  It's weakness is complex 
filtering.  If either one can filter on List-ID, I'd like to know how.

But that's beside the point, because we can't always control what 
clients our users use.  To say that filtering on to/from is 
"incorrect" is a bit over the top, IMHO.

Rob


>On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 09:10  AM, bronto wrote:
>
>>This will be good advice once all the mail clients support 
>>filtering on List-ID.  What about now?
>>
>
>Get a better mail client. or double check. The good mail clients let 
>you specify custom headers to filter on, so just create a custom one 
>for list-id.
>
>If your mail client really is braindead (how do you filter on 
>yahoogroups then?) then Sender is an acceptable backup, and there's 
>no excuse for a client to not filter on that, IMHO. sender should be 
>stable most of the time, but might change during upgrades. List-ID 
>is defined to be static across the life of a list just for this 
>reason.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 04:30:13 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:30:13 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
Message-ID: <E6A5B437-EBB7-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:23  PM, bronto wrote:

> Eudora, both Mac and Windows, I consider a good mail client.

I did, three years ago. too bad they went and programmed that stupid 
chili pepper filter instead of doing basic things like fixing HTML 
rendering. now, it's a pretty weak mail client.

>   Cross platform is a requirement for me.  It's weakness is complex 
> filtering.  If either one can filter on List-ID, I'd like to know how.
>

Simple. Create a filter (this is Eudora 5.1 on OS 9, FWIW. but this 
filter's been available forever).

For header, type in "list-id:". leave the pop up on "contains". To the 
right of contains type in "python.org". set your actions to be whatever 
you want. Save it.

eudora's one of the easier ones to do this in. too bad the interface is 
so geeky, because you have to have solved the problem to know how to 
solve the problem.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 04:32:56 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:32:56 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
Message-ID: <47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:23  PM, bronto wrote:
> But that's beside the point, because we can't always control what 
> clients our users use.  To say that filtering on to/from is 
> "incorrect" is a bit over the top, IMHO.
>

No, it's not. Not a bit. One of the things my organization does is 
manage the email systems for our corporation (not a small one). and we 
set policy on email clients quite simply: "here are the ones we 
support. If you use something else, we wish you luck. If it doesn't 
work right, we hope you can fix it".

True, we can't FORCE them to use only supported software. Nor do I 
think you should try. but that doesn't make failures of that 
unsupported stuff MY (our) problem. It could well be there's a good 
reason we don't recommend you use it, after all....


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/




From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 30 04:37:26 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:37:26 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 PST." <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org> 
References: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <20926.1035949046@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:

> 1) You are using an email system which removes duplicates (based on
> the Message-Id header).  Microsoft Exchange 2000 is one such system.
> If Mailman is changing the headers so much perhaps it should stick a
> new Message-Id on the message though.

We should start out admitting that such mail systems are broken and then
decide how far we want to cater to such broken systems.

> 2) You want replies to your messages to show up in your mailman-users
> folder (or whatever), but colored in a different manner.  I do this.
> If I'm away for a while and want to catch up on a folder I just scan
> for cyan messages.  I don't want public replies to messages that I
> posted on a mailing list to end up in my private inbox.

There are multiple ways to achieve this.  Parsing To: is one of the more
fragile ways.  Far more effective and near-guaranteed to be correct
(except for the standard broken software case as above) is tracking
In-Reply-To: from your original post(s).

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 30 04:43:24 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:43:24 -0800
Subject: personalization features (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in
	postings (2.1b3)) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Gerald Oskoboiny <gerald@impressive.net> 
   of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:27:16 EST." <20021029192716.GE7004@impressive.net> 
References: <20021029171242.GD7004@impressive.net>
	<E1D383AE-EB66-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021029192716.GE7004@impressive.net> 
Message-ID: <21028.1035949404@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:27:16 -0500 
Gerald Oskoboiny <gerald at impressive.net> wrote:

> When I look at the headers of a message, I expect to see them as they
> were composed by the message author. 

You've lead a sheltered mailing list life.

> I don't think MLMs should alter the contents of important headers like
> To:, From:, Cc:, Subject:, Message-Id:, Reply-To:, except in very rare
> cases.

There's a core debate here, which is as old as mailing lists, and was
old when I first ran into it 18 years ago:

  Is a message distributed by a mailing list a new message or merely a
  redistribution of an prior message?

Depending on the answer to that question you can justify (or not) things
like Message-ID being rewritten by the list server, as well as To: etc.
Its comparatively easy to frame cogent and sound arguments for either
side.  The worse and most comforting thing is that in practice both
sides are correct.  Mailman is merely marginally extending this debate
to also enclude the To: header -- which you should care to note is not
original to Mailman, but has been a fairly dead aspect of the debate for
some years (due more to apathy than resolution).

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From bronto at csd-bes.net  Wed Oct 30 04:48:40 2002
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (bronto)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:48:40 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <E6A5B437-EBB7-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <E6A5B437-EBB7-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b10b9e506a05f7e@[10.1.19.62]>

>On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:23  PM, bronto wrote:
>
>>Eudora, both Mac and Windows, I consider a good mail client.
>
>I did, three years ago. too bad they went and programmed that stupid 
>chili pepper filter instead of doing basic things like fixing HTML 
>rendering. now, it's a pretty weak mail client.

Yes, HTML suffers, particularly on the Mac.

>>   Cross platform is a requirement for me.  It's weakness is complex 
>>filtering.  If either one can filter on List-ID, I'd like to know 
>>how.
>>
>
>Simple. Create a filter (this is Eudora 5.1 on OS 9, FWIW. but this 
>filter's been available forever).
>
>For header, type in "list-id:". leave the pop up on "contains". To 
>the right of contains type in "python.org". set your actions to be 
>whatever you want. Save it.
>
>eudora's one of the easier ones to do this in. too bad the interface 
>is so geeky, because you have to have solved the problem to know how 
>to solve the problem.

Too cool; I always just assumed that what was in the drop down was 
the only options available.  Type it in?  Doh!

Now, can you tell me how to put in AND or OR logic?  :')

Rob


From claw at kanga.nu  Wed Oct 30 04:51:03 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:51:03 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from John Buttery <john@io.com> 
   of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:33:08 CST." <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com> 
References: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021029193308.GA25878@io.com> 
Message-ID: <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:33:08 -0600 
John Buttery <john at io.com> wrote:
> * Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> [2002-10-29 10:45:28
> -0800]:
>> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:38 AM, Jay Sekora wrote: 

>> Because it's simply a lie.  I got this mail with the headers:

>> sorry. don't agree.
 
> "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
> what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is
> what you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?
> It's in plain black and white.

Sure it is.  You assuming a certain set of semantic connotations for the
To: and Cc: headers and then inferentially assume that everybody else
operates on the same understanding of those headers.  The problem is
that its just not true.  Your assumptions are neither universal or
necessarily shared.

>> >What that means to me is that Chuq Von Rospach knows me, knows my
>> email >address, deliberately decided to send this mail to me
>> specifically,
>> 
>> um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.

> Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have
> your address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  

One has a List-ID header, one doesn't.  

One has an In-Reply-To that references my prior post, one doesn't.

> Hint: you can't.  

Sure I can.

> (Of course, I acknowledge that sending a copy directly to a person who
> is already subscribed to the list is a bit silly/redundant, but I
> don't see that that dilutes the point at all.  In five seconds I can
> think of a case where this would happen...I see a mail off the list, I
> don't know someone is subscribed, so I send them my followup but also
> CC the list because I think it pertains there also.  With this new
> function, you've just erased anybody's ability to tell the difference
> between those two situations.)  

Ignoring the aspects of etiquette in quoting a private email in a public
forum, this is also not a problem for the same reasons as above. 

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From bronto at csd-bes.net  Wed Oct 30 04:52:56 2002
From: bronto at csd-bes.net (bronto)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 19:52:56 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <a05111b11b9e5073e8498@[10.1.19.62]>

But yours is a situation where you *can* influence the client.  If a 
business tells it's customers they have to change mail clients the 
proper response would be "who do you think you are, Microsoft?".  And 
they'd be right, too.


>On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:23  PM, bronto wrote:
>>But that's beside the point, because we can't always control what 
>>clients our users use.  To say that filtering on to/from is 
>>"incorrect" is a bit over the top, IMHO.
>>
>
>No, it's not. Not a bit. One of the things my organization does is 
>manage the email systems for our corporation (not a small one). and 
>we set policy on email clients quite simply: "here are the ones we 
>support. If you use something else, we wish you luck. If it doesn't 
>work right, we hope you can fix it".
>
>True, we can't FORCE them to use only supported software. Nor do I 
>think you should try. but that doesn't make failures of that 
>unsupported stuff MY (our) problem. It could well be there's a good 
>reason we don't recommend you use it, after all....


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 05:08:58 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 20:08:58 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <a05111b11b9e5073e8498@[10.1.19.62]>
Message-ID: <5080F2C0-EBBD-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 07:52  PM, bronto wrote:

> But yours is a situation where you *can* influence the client.  If a 
> business tells it's customers they have to change mail clients the 
> proper response would be "who do you think you are, Microsoft?".  And 
> they'd be right, too.
>

Sorry, disagree. I think it's perfectly legitimate to say "these are 
the only tools we can support, because these are the only ones we've 
tested and know work to our standards. If you don't use them, we can't 
guarantee they'll work right".

If you think we can influence our user base, you don't know our user 
base. but what we CAN do is set groundrules that point out where our 
sphere of responsibility ends. then it's up to the user whether or not 
to tread into unsupported waters. Because tehy want to doesn't make it 
our responsibility to support it.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Very funny, Scotty. Now beam my clothes down here, will you?



From cooleydd at pacbell.net  Wed Oct 30 06:50:56 2002
From: cooleydd at pacbell.net (Don Cooley)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 21:50:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List ID
In-Reply-To: <8BFE032D-EBB2-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFGELCPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>

Chuq

It appears that Outlook does not have the capability to sort by List ID
unless I am missing something.

I can only add what is in the header and I believe that I would have to
add the whole thing:
"List-Id: A Discussion of Alternatives to Traditional Prostate Cancer
Treatments <alternatives.phcagroups.org>"

Anyone have any thoughts.  When you realize that I have some 3800
members in my various lists and some 85% of them use Outlook or Outlook
Express - it would be nice if I could sort by the List ID.

Don
      Order your "Prostate-Help CD-ROM" at
            http://www.cooleyville.com/cancer/cacdrom.htm
      Prostate-Help Web Site, Aubrey's latest book on PCa,
      Dr. Myers Prostate Forums, and more all included.
      Don Cooley, call 408 268-6400 if I can help!
             Web site - http://prostate-help.com

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+cooleydd=pacbell.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+cooleydd=pacbell.net at python.org]On Behalf
Of Chuq Von Rospach
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 6:52 PM
To: cooleydd at pacbell.net
Cc: Mailman mailing list management users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] List ID



On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 04:10  PM, Don Cooley wrote:

> My header shows my list ID as the following:
>      List-Id: A Discussion of Alternatives to Traditional Prostate
> Cancer Treatments <alternatives.phcagroups.org>
>
> What part of that is the list ID that is being discussed and how would
> this be used in the Outlook 2000 Rules Wizard?
>

This is your short description for the list: A Discussion of
Alternatives to Traditional Prostate Cancer Treatments

This is the ID of your list: alternatives.phcagroups.org

what I usually do is set up a filter something similar to (your exact
setup will vary, this isn't outlook syntax)

Header "list-id" contains "alternatives.phcagroups.org".

If I'm on multiple mail lists, I'll do a single filter for the site:

Header "list-id" contains "phcagroups.org".

In theory, you could filter all lists to a folder with something like:

Header "list-id" exists

or

Header "list-id" not empty

if you only use a single "lists" folder.

the ability to use fewer rules is something you really can't do with
Sender or filtering on to/cc.




--
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Someday, we'll look back on this, laugh
nervously and change the subject.


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

This message was sent to: cooleydd at pacbell.net
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/cooleydd%40pacbell.
net



From mburton at jo.birdsense.com  Wed Oct 30 08:04:11 2002
From: mburton at jo.birdsense.com (Mike Burton)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:04:11 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
References: <9962A80E-EB6D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <017201c27fe2$8c59ff80$020a0a0a@ALFA>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuq Von Rospach" <chuqui at plaidworks.com>

> Point taken. If list-ID exists, it is what you should use to filter
> list mail on. not all list servers support list-ID yet, but the right
> answer is to encourage them to follow the standards, and you should.

Not to sound like Mr. Negativity, but your proposed filter on List-ID isn't
implementable on many mainstream MUAs.  So I have seen this question asked
already, but read no response so far - I use Outlook as my MUA, so how do I
sort on the List-ID field (impossible from what I know of Outlook)?  From
what you appear to be supporting I have two choices - be screwed or change
MUAs - neither are acceptable answers from my standpoint.

I also have the issue of seeing the mail headers reflect that the mail was
sent to me and CC'd to the list, especially since the from line states your
name and not the list name.  This isn't correct (read as wrong!).  I did not
receive the mail directly from you as indicated based on the painly visible
header fields.  The original mail was not CC'd to the list as indicated
either.  In fact, it was mailed to the list and distributed from the list to
me.  Maybe this is a semantic, but it's how folks see and read the To, From,
CC headers - including myself.  Creating this kind confusion and making it
harder to relate to how a mail comes to be delivered is not a standard that
I believe will gain support.  If you think folks want to spend their time
examining headers to understand how the mail was really handled, then you're
on the right track here.  But if you really understand end users, you will
know better.  Now, did I send this mail to you directly or did it come
through the list?  Would you know for sure if you hadn't filtered it without
digging through the headers?  I believe my point has been made if you think
about it a little.

I've been doing email for over 23 years now and I've never seen this kind of
header mutation come to be accepted and I really hope Mailman doesn't keep t
his adaptation.  I think it is unacceptable to alter the headers this way -
just my two cents.

Thanks for the listen,
Mike




From bob at nleaudio.com  Wed Oct 30 08:13:42 2002
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 03:13:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Big discussion on filtering
In-Reply-To: <E186my6-000121-00@mail.python.org>
References: <E186my6-000121-00@mail.python.org>
Message-ID: <20021030071342.M74122@nleaudio.com>

Wouldn't it be easy to filter mail based on the subject?  Most lists
(including ones here) add [listname] to the subject... So you could key in on
that, no?  Yes, you would get the occasional direct reply from someone on the
list, but that should be part of your list folder anyways, right?  Just some
thoughts.

Bob






From mburton at jo.birdsense.com  Wed Oct 30 08:28:31 2002
From: mburton at jo.birdsense.com (Mike Burton)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 23:28:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Big discussion on filtering
References: <E186my6-000121-00@mail.python.org>
	<20021030071342.M74122@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <01a401c27fe5$f30e8a90$020a0a0a@ALFA>

Good point, Bob.  In fact that's exactly how I filter mail.  But this still
doesn't address the suggested filtering strategy of using a field that is
not accessible to most MUA's nor the issue of how the headers make the mail
path appear.  Nor does it address the issue of forcing this issue on end
users and creating headaches and undo effort to understand how a mail
actually was routed to your inbox.

So, let's assume that you are also filtering on subject content (I assume
you are).  Without digging into the headers, did I send this mail to you and
CC the list, or did I mail it to the list only?  Can you tell the
difference?  Can you acknowledge there could be a difference?  And what if I
didn't CC the list, but the subject line still reads [Mailman-Users]?  Are
you going to respond to the list address or to me directly?  What would be
the appropriate way to handle this mail?  Why should there be so much
thought necessary to do a simple thing like respond to email on a mailing
list?

Mike

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Puff at NLE" <bob at nleaudio.com>
To: <mburton at jo.birdsense.com>
Cc: "Mailman mailing list management users" <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 11:13 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Big discussion on filtering


> Wouldn't it be easy to filter mail based on the subject?  Most lists
> (including ones here) add [listname] to the subject... So you could key in
on
> that, no?  Yes, you would get the occasional direct reply from someone on
the
> list, but that should be part of your list folder anyways, right?  Just
some
> thoughts.





From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Wed Oct 30 10:15:14 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 09:15:14 +0000
Subject: Problems with personalization (was Re: OFFTOPIC Re:
	[Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3))
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210291549570.4696-100000@mike.netrom.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0210291549570.4696-100000@mike.netrom.com>
Message-ID: <1035969316.6516.5.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Tue, 2002-10-29 at 20:52, John Vozza wrote:
> Whatever change you made also broke the unsubscribe since I have been
> trying to get off the list since you started the "personalization" stuff.

Is that mail based unsubscribe?
Certainly web based subscribe/unsubscribe is working since I did that
yesterday morning after realising I had the wrong address subbed to
those lists.

	Nigel.

-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Wed Oct 30 10:33:18 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 09:33:18 +0000
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20926.1035949046@kanga.nu>
References: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org>  
	<20926.1035949046@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <1035970398.6516.16.camel@gaspode.localnet>

[Interesting to see that the Mail List Experts (presumably a mailman
list of this type could loosely be described as that) still suffer from
the 2000 threads under one unrelated subject problem :-) ]


On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 03:37, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) 
> alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:
> 
> > 1) You are using an email system which removes duplicates (based on
> > the Message-Id header).  Microsoft Exchange 2000 is one such system.
> > If Mailman is changing the headers so much perhaps it should stick a
> > new Message-Id on the message though.
> 
> We should start out admitting that such mail systems are broken and then
> decide how far we want to cater to such broken systems.

Accepting that it is broken to attempt to duplicate filter on message
id, its also broken to send out different messages with the same message
id - if only for the sake of the poor schmuck attempting to work through
his MTA logs where 1000 different (different injection, sender and
recipient) messages all have the same message id.   It can be done but
it gets much harder...

Oh rats - I guess that totally breaks threading then.... this is a
horrid morass.

To go back to the To header handling.  The basic reason I don't like it
is because I use the headers to mentally process a message's relevance
to me - along with various other things.  A message that has my name in
the To/Cc line I assume the sender had a reason for including me - ie I
was involved in the thread previously and so might be expected to
continue an interest.  Now I will have 2 copies of that mail - main
mailbox and list mailbox - but I generally always reply from the list
mailbox.  The To mangling breaks my mental processes (and I'm getting
too old to go and buy some more) without any real gain that I can see.
It looks too much like a spammers trick to persuade me its really a
personal message.

	Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Wed Oct 30 11:09:28 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 10:09:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List ID
In-Reply-To: <8BFE032D-EBB2-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <8BFE032D-EBB2-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <1035972568.6516.30.camel@gaspode.localnet>

Its not for outlook - its actually an exim filter - but for the record
this his how I handle all the mailing lists that come past me:-

  http://www.exim.org/pipermail/exim-users/Week-of-Mon-20021028/045563.html

	Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From danny at terweij.nl  Wed Oct 30 11:58:57 2002
From: danny at terweij.nl (Danny Terweij)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:58:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] B4 changed the To: line?
Message-ID: <134901c28003$58d1d900$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>

Hi all,

I do not know if this is the same as discussed now on the users list about
"List Id".
But all my users from all lists are complaining since i upgraded to B4/B4+ .

The Short list description is placed at every outgoing mail at the TO:
field.

If  the short list desciption is: "Welcome at this fine list" (You can see
this at the /listinfo/ web page) Then all mail looks like this:

>From : Danny Terweij
To: Welcome at this fine list

How to stop this or how to get back what it was before B4 version?

Danny Terweij.





From giallu at chemiome.chm.unipg.it  Wed Oct 30 12:20:49 2002
From: giallu at chemiome.chm.unipg.it (Gianluca Sforna)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 12:20:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1b4 installation problem
Message-ID: <1035976850.15326.114.camel@dx2>

This seems to me a python-related problem, but since I never had a
mailing list software installed, I write to this list hoping someone
could help...

System info:

OS:      Trustix secure linux 1.5
MTA:     postfix-0.0.20010228.pl08
Pyhton   1.5.2

At first I tried mailman 2.0.13 and, while I was able to install it and
see the web interface, I realized that for a tighter integration with
postfix I could install 2.1b.

So I downloaded 2.1b4 (I tried even the CVS version) but, since pyhton 2
is not shipped with my server distribution, I had to download it and
recompile from the sources.

Everything seems fine with python since I can succesfully configure;
make ; make install the mailman package but, when looking at the
mailman/admin (or any other web page) I got this error:

--------------------------------------
Bug in Mailman version 2.1b4+

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy
of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman//scripts/driver", line 61, in run_main
    import paths
  File "/home/mailman//scripts/paths.py", line 60, in ?
    import korean.aliases
ImportError: No module named aliases

Python information:

Variable Value
sys.version 2.2.2 (#2, Oct 29 2002, 20:16:46) [GCC 2.95.3 20010315
(release)]
sys.executable /usr/bin/python2.2
sys.prefix /usr
sys.exec_prefix /usr
sys.path /usr
sys.platform linux2
---------------------------------------------

now I tought: I don't care korean language so maybe I can remove that
line... actally that error is gone but now I have again a "bug":

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/mailman//scripts/driver", line 63, in run_main
    from Mailman.Logging.StampedLogger import StampedLogger
  File "/home/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 18, in ?
    import time
ImportError: No module named time

>From this I understand my python build is somewhat broken (i.e. it
cannot find modules), but I really do not understand how to fix it.

I do know this is not a bug, but a serious UBD :) so please help me if
you can.

Gianluca






From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Wed Oct 30 12:48:14 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:48:14 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 
 MM 2.1b4 versions of Mailman-htdig integration patches posted
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021030114305.039d0390@pop.ftel.co.uk>

I have now posted revised versions of my Mailman-htdig integration patches 
that are compatible with MM 2.1b4 release.

These revised patches can be found via the URLs below and should apply 
without complaint to a fresh extract from the MM 2.1b4 source release.

If you encounter any difficulties with the patches or their use then let me 
know.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444879&group_id=103&atid=300103

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=444884&group_id=10 
3&atid=300103



From sb.list at sb.org  Wed Oct 30 14:22:52 2002
From: sb.list at sb.org (Stonewall Ballard)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:22:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How about a topic for the To: munging discussion?
Message-ID: <B9E5475C.4B4CE%sb.list@sb.org>

I haven't had a chance to try out the "topics" feature in mailman. Since the
discussion of the personalization and To: munging is going on so long, how
about making a topic for it so we can try out unsubscribing to it. ;-)

Actually, this has been interesting. I did not know that anyone expected
these fields to have much, let alone a consistent, meaning.

 - Stoney

-- 
Stonewall Ballard 
stoney at sb.org           http://stoney.sb.org/




From mcora at atstake.com  Wed Oct 30 15:43:29 2002
From: mcora at atstake.com (Mike Cora)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:43:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem accessing admin web interface
Message-ID: <LBEOJNMOLPHBMDAMFFOAOEEFCAAA.mcora@atstake.com>

Hi,

I've very new to linux and mailman, sorry if this is a simple question.
I've recently taken over as mailman admin of an existing installation.  When
trying to access the admin web interface for any list users receive an
Internal Server Error.  Looking through the logs shows a "premature end of
script headers" error.  What steps can I take next to troubleshoot this
issue?

Thanks!

Mike Cora
@stake, Inc.
196 Broadway
Cambridge, MA 02139-1902




From gwolosh at njit.edu  Wed Oct 30 16:12:03 2002
From: gwolosh at njit.edu (Gedaliah Wolosh)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:12:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4
In-Reply-To: <000701c27f59$0386ad90$3f80509c@nitrox>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210301010060.3297-100000@kippah.njit.edu>

Mailman gurus,

I also get this error.  My installation is a brand new 2.1b4 running on
RedHat 8.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

--Gedaliah

On Tue, the 23rd of Cheshvan, 5763 (10/29/2002) Miller Brett wrote:

> Hello mailman users,
>
> I just upgraded to Mailman beta 4 and I am receiving this error when a
> mailman cron job runs. Has anyone seen this error and does anyone know
> how to fix it. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 26, in ?
>     from email.Charset import Charset
> ImportError: No module named email.Charset
>
>
> Brett Miller
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> E-mail: miller_brett at bah.com
> Office: (410)684-6468
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
>



From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Wed Oct 30 16:57:47 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:57:47 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021030155748.0564013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

> > The problem with personalization in the To: header is that I can't
> > tell if email is to me or just to the list.

> Be careful here in distinguishing limitations and models of your MUA as
> problems with external systems.  The fact that you MUA exposes specific
> features and the manner you take advantage of them is something between
> you and your MUA and has little to do with Mailman.

So if Mailman decides to change the Subject: header to "What this message
is about:", transcribe the addresses in the To:, Cc:, and From: fields
into EBCDIC and reverse the local part and the domain, and put all the
headers at the bottom of the message instead of the top, would my beef
be with my mail reader for not displaying that properly?

-j.


From miller_brett at bah.com  Wed Oct 30 16:58:38 2002
From: miller_brett at bah.com (Miller Brett)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:58:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210301010060.3297-100000@kippah.njit.edu>
Message-ID: <004701c2802d$38e0b790$3f80509c@nitrox>

After doing some research, it looks the charset.py and charset.pyc are
in the /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/ directory but it still is
unable to load the email.charset module. Can anyone shed some light on
this? Thanks

Brett Miller 
Booz | Allen | Hamilton


-----Original Message-----
From: Gedaliah Wolosh [mailto:gwolosh at njit.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:12 AM
To: Miller Brett
Cc: Mailman mailing list management users
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4

Mailman gurus,

I also get this error.  My installation is a brand new 2.1b4 running on
RedHat 8.  Any information would be greatly appreciated.

--Gedaliah

On Tue, the 23rd of Cheshvan, 5763 (10/29/2002) Miller Brett wrote:

> Hello mailman users,
>
> I just upgraded to Mailman beta 4 and I am receiving this error when a
> mailman cron job runs. Has anyone seen this error and does anyone know
> how to fix it. Thank you for your time.
>
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 26, in ?
>     from email.Charset import Charset
> ImportError: No module named email.Charset
>
>
> Brett Miller
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> E-mail: miller_brett at bah.com
> Office: (410)684-6468
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
>





From alex at phred.org  Wed Oct 30 17:05:32 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:05:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20926.1035949046@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20021030075359.N669-100000@phred.org>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST)
> alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:
> > 1) You are using an email system which removes duplicates (based on
> > the Message-Id header).  Microsoft Exchange 2000 is one such system.
> > If Mailman is changing the headers so much perhaps it should stick a
> > new Message-Id on the message though.
>
> We should start out admitting that such mail systems are broken and then
> decide how far we want to cater to such broken systems.

Eliminating duplicates is a useful feature, not a broken one.  Think
about the hacks that Mailman-2.1 has to prevent sending the duplicate.
In a complex corporate topology there are reasons why duplicates are
sometimes generated, but clients should have no reason to see them.

Exchange is not the only system that does this, but it might be the
widest deployed.

> > 2) You want replies to your messages to show up in your mailman-users
> > folder (or whatever), but colored in a different manner.  I do this.
> > If I'm away for a while and want to catch up on a folder I just scan
> > for cyan messages.  I don't want public replies to messages that I
> > posted on a mailing list to end up in my private inbox.
>
> There are multiple ways to achieve this.  Parsing To: is one of the more
> fragile ways.  Far more effective and near-guaranteed to be correct
> (except for the standard broken software case as above) is tracking
> In-Reply-To: from your original post(s).

That depends on keeping a database of sent message-ids and comparing
In-Reply-To against each of them.  Few clients support this.

If you can recommend a decent text-based IMAP client that runs on
Unix and Win32 and which supports this functionality I'm all ears.


alex



From jay at ccs.neu.edu  Wed Oct 30 17:23:14 2002
From: jay at ccs.neu.edu (Jay Sekora)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:23:14 -0500
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
Message-ID: <20021030162314.DB02813530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>

> No, it's not. Not a bit. One of the things my organization does is 
> manage the email systems for our corporation (not a small one). and we 
> set policy on email clients quite simply: "here are the ones we 
> support. If you use something else, we wish you luck. If it doesn't 
> work right, we hope you can fix it".

That's an excellent strategy for managing support staff's workload,
and it's a strategy we use at my job as well.  It's a terrible strategy
to get a software project taken seriously around the world.  Imagine if
Python could only build on HP/UX, IRIX, and SCO Unix, using a particular
version of GCC that had the quirks that Guido liked and didn't have the
quirks he didn't like.  Would anybody be using it?

-j.

PS - Admittedly, Mailman is *already* taken seriously around the world.
But I don't think it has sufficient monopoly power yet that it can impose
this sort of a paradigm shift on email.  Actually, it's going to have
a hard time doing that as long as anybody also gets non-mailing-list-mail.
If it were a newsreader or a weblogging system, it would have a better 
chance, because people don't see their news or their blogs alongside 
their personal email, so it's not going to bother them as much if 
the semantics are different.


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 17:25:48 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:25:48 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: <20021030155748.0564013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
Message-ID: <3FEFAAE4-EC24-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 07:57  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:

> So if Mailman decides to change the Subject: header to "What this 
> message
> is about:", transcribe the addresses in the To:, Cc:, and From: fields
> into EBCDIC and reverse the local part and the domain, and put all the
> headers at the bottom of the message instead of the top, would my beef
> be with my mail reader for not displaying that properly?
>

As someone who spent time on the college debate team, I feel it 
necessary that sometimes an extreme case is useful to illuminate the 
edge conditions you need to worry about in an issue.

And sometimes it's just silly and petty.

chuq

-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/




From cooleydd at pacbell.net  Wed Oct 30 17:26:52 2002
From: cooleydd at pacbell.net (Don Cooley)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:26:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] B4 changed the To: line?
In-Reply-To: <134901c28003$58d1d900$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>
Message-ID: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFCEMIPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>

To All

We have had a nice long debate about changing the To: line.  What sees
to be forgotten is that our lists serve PEOPLE and people who, by and
large, have little experience with lists.  What seems to be clear to the
experts here can be absolutely confusing to the members of our lists.
(I have 3800 members on various prostate cancer lists so it tends to be
old men.)

When I send an email I assume it goes out the way I sent it.  When I
reply to an email from a list I expect the email to go to the place I
received it from - the list for example.  It seems to me that this
change breaks both of these expectations.  For example if I want to
reply to this list and I click "Reply To All:" it puts the name of the
sender in the To: line and the name of the list in the CC line.  This is
exactly the opposite that common sense would tell you to do.  Now to
make it go to the list, logically I remove the individual name in To:
and drag the name from the CC line to the To: line.  This seems very
backward - why would I want ever to send to both and give that member
two copies of the same post.  Not logical.

ON LSoft the To: line shows the group name - THAT IS WHERE I SEND THE
POST.  Here is where it can become confusing - in my case when I send a
post I put only the List name in the To: field and all the other names
in the CC field.  This is logical to me and works very well.  However
that is not done by most of the members.  They put everyone's name in
the To: field (wish I could restrict that to one name).  Now if you
really wanted to help the members - one might consider the list name
always in the To: field and all other names in the CC field.

Sorting is another problem.  I have used LSoft for 4 years and the same
for Yahoo.  I find that they are much easier to sort than is Mailman
using Outlook 2000.  I am yet to find some ways of sorting some of the
messages I receive as owner.

Why can't the List ID contain only the name of the list and not the
other material.  Easy sort.

I don't know if I am right or wrong but what I am trying to say is that
the experts on this list seem to be arguing semantics and not real life
use of the list by the members.  For me and my old men - KISS - Keep It
Simple Stupid .

Don



From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 30 17:34:02 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:34:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4
References: <000701c27f59$0386ad90$3f80509c@nitrox>
	<Pine.GSO.4.44.0210301010060.3297-100000@kippah.njit.edu>
Message-ID: <15808.2554.400275.122057@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "GW" == Gedaliah Wolosh <gwolosh at njit.edu> writes:

    GW> Mailman gurus,

    GW> I also get this error.  My installation is a brand new 2.1b4
    GW> running on RedHat 8.  Any information would be greatly
    GW> appreciated.

Grab cvs or wait a day or two for b5.  Or grab email 2.4.3 from
sf.net/projects/mimelib and install it into your Python distro.

-Barry


From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 30 17:37:09 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 11:37:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with 2.1 beta 4
References: <000701c27f59$0386ad90$3f80509c@nitrox>
	<Pine.GSO.4.44.0210301010060.3297-100000@kippah.njit.edu>
Message-ID: <15808.2741.876424.426066@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


Or apply this patch:

Index: checkdbs
===================================================================
RCS file: /cvsroot/mailman/mailman/cron/checkdbs,v
retrieving revision 2.16
retrieving revision 2.17
diff -u -r2.16 -r2.17
--- checkdbs	28 Oct 2002 02:57:33 -0000	2.16
+++ checkdbs	28 Oct 2002 03:43:42 -0000	2.17
@@ -23,12 +23,12 @@
 import sys
 import time
 from types import UnicodeType
-from email.Charset import Charset
 
 import paths
-# mm_cfg must be imported before the other modules, due to the side-effect of
-# it hacking sys.paths to include site-packages.  Without this, running this
-# script from cron with python -S will fail.
+
+# Import this after paths so we get Mailman's copy of the email package
+from email.Charset import Charset
+
 from Mailman import mm_cfg
 from Mailman import Utils
 from Mailman import MailList


From jcapps at qwest.net  Tue Oct 29 03:49:11 2002
From: jcapps at qwest.net (Jeremy)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 18:49:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] queued, but not sent
Message-ID: <001101c27ef5$c2df5a20$0300a8c0@braindog.org>

recently upgraded from sendmail-8.11.6.i386.rpm on redhat 7.1 to sendmail
8.12.6 installed from source, and after sorting out the new --with-mail-gid
(8.12.6 needed a new mail gid) I needed and rebuilt smrsh, placing a new
symlink to wrapper, mailman seems to be receiving posts ok, but the posts
end up directly in the queue (qfiles dir) with no errors in any of the
mailman or sendmail logs.  Adding users, mailman will still send out
notifications, with no errors.  What would cause it to directly queue
messages without an error?  Mailman version is 2.0.13.




From CherilynL at sd.co.za  Tue Oct 29 09:36:07 2002
From: CherilynL at sd.co.za (Cherilyn Lang)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:36:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error decoding authorization cookie
Message-ID: <8258A910B1DDD511A01F009027E04C1301C0246B@se002052.sd.co.za>

Good day
 
Please explain what this error means.  I am trying to unsubscribe a member
but every time I try to access that chunk of members, this error appears.  

 

Kindest regards, <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />


===============================================


Cherilyn Lang


SecureData, Marketing Co-ordinator

Tel:        + 27 (11) 257-8612

Fax:       + 27 (11) 257-8699

E-mail:    cherilynl at sd.co.za <mailto:cherilynl at sd.co.za> 

Website:   <http://www.sd.co.za/> http://www.sd.co.za

Solutions:

Trend Micro Antivirus and Content Security, Centennial 

Discovery Network Asset Management, Cell-ID Token-

Based User Authentication, CryptonWare PKI Systems,

BorderWare and Basilisk Firewalls and Internet Security

System's Intrusion Detection Software.  

Services: 

Data Recovery, Media Duplication and Technical Support.  

===============================================
 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021029/6848799d/attachment.htm 

From icon at accesscomm.ca  Tue Oct 29 19:40:18 2002
From: icon at accesscomm.ca (Bob)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:40:18 -0600
Subject: FW: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAKEABDFAA.icon@accesscomm.ca>

Hi there,

This is the third such message that I received in the past day, since the
list was upgraded. I don't know why my address was in the "From" field,
since I didn't send the referenced message to the list in the first place,
and didn't reply to it in the second. Also, do I know the originator of the
message to the list, nor the person who is complaining about getting the
messages and not being part of the list.

Please, Mr. List Moderator/Owner/Coordinator, fix this problem so this guy
can sleep without fear and I can go on vacation without trepidation. :-)

Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+fish=livingsky.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+fish=livingsky.net at python.org]On Behalf Of
chris colombo
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 9:10 AM
To: fish at livingsky.net
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?



I have no idea what this mailstuff is all about.  Just woke up today and my
box is full of this Mailman-Users chatter.

Do you know how I get away?





>From: Paul Reilly <pareilly at tcd.ie>
>To: chris_colombo at hotmail.com
>CC: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:48:39 +0000 (GMT)
>
>
>I've setup mailman on a virtual hosting envinroment, but each virtual
>listinfo main page...
>
>http://lists.virtualdomain.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>has a link to admin page which lists all the mailing lists on the
>server, not just the ones for this virtual domain!
>
>How do I remove this?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/


_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Re_ [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans_.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021029/d2eb496c/attachment.txt 

From icon at accesscomm.ca  Tue Oct 29 19:54:22 2002
From: icon at accesscomm.ca (Bob)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:54:22 -0600
Subject: FW: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
Message-ID: <FFEHJKDOKCCPDELMCLCAIEADDFAA.icon@accesscomm.ca>

Hi there,

This is the third such message that I received in the past day, since the
list was upgraded. I don't know why my address was in the "From" field,
since I didn't send the referenced message to the list in the first place,
and didn't reply to it in the second. Also, do I know the originator of the
message to the list, nor the person who is complaining about getting the
messages and not being part of the list.

Please, Mr. List Moderator/Owner/Coordinator, fix this problem so this guy
can sleep without fear and I can go on vacation without trepidation. :-)

Robert Lydiate
icon at accesscomm.ca

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+fish=livingsky.net at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+fish=livingsky.net at python.org]On Behalf Of
chris colombo
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 9:10 AM
To: fish at livingsky.net
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?



I have no idea what this mailstuff is all about.  Just woke up today and my
box is full of this Mailman-Users chatter.

Do you know how I get away?





>From: Paul Reilly <pareilly at tcd.ie>
>To: chris_colombo at hotmail.com
>CC: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>
>Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans?
>Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:48:39 +0000 (GMT)
>
>
>I've setup mailman on a virtual hosting envinroment, but each virtual
>listinfo main page...
>
>http://lists.virtualdomain.com/mailman/listinfo
>
>has a link to admin page which lists all the mailing lists on the
>server, not just the ones for this virtual domain!
>
>How do I remove this?
>
>Thanks
>
>Paul
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives:
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/


_________________________________________________________________
Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.
http://resourcecenter.msn.com/access/plans/freeactivation.asp


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%%40python.org/
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: Re_ [Mailman-Users] virtual domain mailmans_.txt
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021029/44a232d2/attachment.txt 

From rustym at main.nc.us  Tue Oct 29 21:59:36 2002
From: rustym at main.nc.us (TyrusMaynard)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 15:59:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure email addresses_ where?
Message-ID: <JJGWMLBAMKLF0OJTSLGPKIRLRP74.3dbef6b8@750>

   In my short experience as a Mailman 2.0.13   list administrator, I have had this 
setting:
obscure_addresses (privacy): Show member addrs so they're not directly 
recognizable as email addrs?

toggled  as  "Yes"  since the inception of the list.

The help says that the following will result:
"Setting this option causes member email addresses to be transformed when 
they are presented on list web pages (both in text and as links), so they're not 
trivially recognizable as email addresses. The intention is to to prevent the 
addresses from being snarfed up by automated web scanners for use by 
spammers".

However the mail items  in the list archives  still show the  "@"   in all email 
addresses.   Only the  list of  member addresses  has an "AT" replacement to 
thwart  spam robot scanners  ( and that is configured to be viewed only by 
admin anyway).

???Is this feature working properly? ...  and will there be a future  Mailman 
version that will  eliminate emails entirely so that they elude more than trivial  
interpretation?

Since I also have the archives set to a private status:
(archive_private (archive), could  this privacy setting be the reason why the  
"@"  values are not substituted.?     If so , can I expect for the emails to be 
hidden or substituted  if and when the archive is coverted to public status.

Thanks 
Tyrus Maynard




From James at excitech.com.au  Wed Oct 30 13:23:27 2002
From: James at excitech.com.au (James Quiring)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 23:23:27 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems view archives (again you say)
Message-ID: <D13DE2BD344ED2119D5E00AA00607B44159A06@server3.excitech.com.au>

I an running mailman on freebsd with apache and sendmail.  All works as
expected except that I cant view the archives for public lists (lists with
private archives work fine).

The error is the usuall 403 don't have permission to access
/pipermail/listname/

I have not errors logged in the httpd-error.log

my httpd.conf includes:

Alias	/pipermail/	"/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"

</Directory 	"usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
	Allow overide none
	Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>

and as I said - if I mark it as private it works.

uid and gid are mailman for files in the lists archive directory
apache runs as www

Any help would be appreciated.

Regards
James Quiring

Mailman newbie.


From leewei at 163.net  Wed Oct 30 11:16:05 2002
From: leewei at 163.net (Leewei)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 18:16:05 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "All recipients refused"
Message-ID: <35548232086.20021030181606@163.net>

Hello all,

 I installed Mailman RPM package on my Red Hat 7.2. But the list can
not relay any e-mail! I can read all sent mails in list archives on
web but none of list members can get the mail!

In /var/log/mailman/smtp file, it goes like this:
...
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds
Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds
...

In /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure file, it goes like this:
...
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) -1 user1 at hotmail.com (ignore)
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) -1 user2 at hotmail.com (ignore)
Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) -1 user3 at hotmail.com (ignore)
...

Could someone please tell me why? Thank you very much!

-- 
Best regards,
 Leewei                          mailto:leewei at 163.net



From pcharp at mcas.k12.in.us  Wed Oct 30 15:37:47 2002
From: pcharp at mcas.k12.in.us (Peter Charpentier)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:37:47 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] technical help
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.4.05L.10210300833160.24119-100000@rosie.mcas.k12.in.us>

I am using Mailman v2.0.13 on Red Hat 6.1 and am having problems with mail
delivery. When I create a list it is suppose to send an email to the list
administrator, but it doesn't. I installed Mailman on a webserver, but am
using a different mail server. I can mail users on the mail server from
the webserver and vice versa. I need some help with this. Thanks

Peter Charpentier
Michigan City Area Schools



From director at mywoman2woman.com  Wed Oct 30 16:26:19 2002
From: director at mywoman2woman.com (Director)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:26:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
Message-ID: <00df01c28028$b24049c0$bd552144@aberdn01.md.comcast.net>

Hi my list is down, it's been down since Monday evening...this happened once before. Nothing has changed, just stopped working. Any ideas?


Sharon S. E. Schlossenberg
Director - My Woman2Woman Network, LLC

http://www.mywoman2woman.com
director at mywoman2woman.com
(800) 216-0549
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021030/0fdd7088/attachment.html 

From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Oct 30 18:24:59 2002
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:24:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] B4 changed the To: line?
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFCEMIPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <846EAE41-EC2C-11D6-9BB5-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>


On Wednesday, October 30, 2002, at 08:26  AM, Don Cooley wrote:

>  What sees
> to be forgotten is that our lists serve PEOPLE and people who, by and
> large, have little experience with lists.  What seems to be clear to 
> the
> experts here can be absolutely confusing to the members of our lists.
> (I have 3800 members on various prostate cancer lists so it tends to be
> old men.)

excuse me for being offended, but...

What gives you the right to claim that because you don't like our 
decisions, the folks involved in these decisions haven't considered the 
needs of the user? And what gives you the authority to speak for "the 
users" whatever in the hell that is? your 3800 members?

if we're speaking from the size of our user-bases, the sites I run are 
larger than yours by about a factor of 25x. I've been running and 
building stuff like this for 20 years now.

Why do you think you're suddenly more qualified than myself, or JC, or 
Barry, or the folks who's spent the last year or so sweating out these 
details trying to get 2.0 to 2.1? I find your attitude really arrogant 
here, Don.

Disagree with us? fine. want to persuade us? great. In case you haven't 
noticed, we've been sitting here listening and thinking over what 
people have been saying. But to pull out this "I am the mystical 
master, and I'm channelling the REAL OPINIONS of the USERS, and you 
ivory tower creeps just don't get it" -- I'm offended. you just really 
screwed the chances of you convincing me of your position with this 
crap.

> When I send an email I assume it goes out the way I sent it.

good for you. wanna know what the TYPICAL user wants? He wants things 
to work the way they expect it. one reason the headers got re-arranged 
is because when people do things like Bcc: the list, or re-arrange to 
and Cc and stuff, or start throwing reply-tos on things, or anything 
other than the 'default' behaviors, stuff doesn't act as expected for 
these typical users, and they don't have a chance to understand why. By 
regularlizing the headers, one reason to do it was to FIX THINGS FOR 
THE USERS -- by making sure that when they take an action, it does what 
THEY expect it to do, not what people who muck around with headers like 
you try to force them to do.

In other words, we're protecting the typical user from the non-typical 
user, whether they're doign something fancy because they like it, or 
because they're a jerk and trying to play games with the people on the 
list. By standardizing how the headers are sent out, the list server 
creates a standard, consistent interaction with users, and gets rid of 
the random chaos that shows up today when folks play with the headers.

don't try to pull this "i really know the users" crap on me. I've spent 
more time talking to users about how lists ought to run in my career 
than most people on this list will ever spend on ANYTHING having to do 
with e-mail. You don't have a clue what users really want, and I don't 
appreciate the way you're trying to foist off your personal agenda 
through these "users".

Thank you for deciding what the right answer is BEFORE studying the 
issue, and then not listening to any data that doesn't fit your idea of 
how things ought to be. Fortunately, the mailman developers aren't like 
that.

Now I'm going to go shut up and get real work done, before I say 
something really inflammatory.

Feel free to take a return shot at me. you've earned one, and I'm 
dropping it after this rant. we now return the list to it's normal 
operations... (sorry, barry...)


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

The first rule of holes: If you are in one, stop digging.


-- 
Chuq Von Rospach, Architech
chuqui at plaidworks.com -- http://www.plaidworks.com/chuqui/blog/

Yes, I am an agent of Satan, but my duties
are largely ceremonial.



From cra at bigfatpipe.net  Wed Oct 30 18:05:23 2002
From: cra at bigfatpipe.net (Christopher Allen [BigFatPipe.Net])
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 09:05:23 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] B4 changed the To: line?
In-Reply-To: <NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFCEMIPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0210300848120.48568-100000@west.bigfatpipe.net>

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002, Don Cooley wrote:
> We have had a nice long debate about changing the To: line.  What sees
> to be forgotten is that our lists serve PEOPLE and people who, by and
> large, have little experience with lists.  What seems to be clear to the
> experts here can be absolutely confusing to the members of our lists.
> (I have 3800 members on various prostate cancer lists so it tends to be
> old men.)

Thank you!  This is exactly the case.  While there are lots of theoretical
and philosophical reasons to put the actual recipient into the To: field,
end-users have a hard enough time understanding the difference between
"reply" and "reply to all," let alone "something that was sent to them,"
vs. "something that was sent to a list, but marked as though it was sent
to them."

> When I send an email I assume it goes out the way I sent it.

... without alteration of existing header data.  Quoting RFC 821:

     | Notice that the forward-path and reverse-path appear in   |
     | the SMTP commands and replies, but not necessarily in the |
     | message. That is, there is no need for these paths and    |
     | especially this syntax to appear in the "To:" , "From:",  |
     | "CC:", etc. fields of the message header.                 |

> Why can't the List ID contain only the name of the list and not the
> other material.  Easy sort.

We advise our users to sort on the X-BeenThere: or List-Id: headers.  As
of yet I haven't had a user complain that this wasn't possible, but I'm
not up to date with the GUI mail clients so I don't know what limitations
they may have.

Here's my suggestion, valued at what y'all paid to receive it:  Since the
role of the list package is to redirect the mail to subscribers, wouldn't
addition of a "Resent-To:" header be more appropriate than munging of an
otherwise accurate To: header?

-CA





From barry at python.org  Wed Oct 30 18:21:16 2002
From: barry at python.org (Barry A. Warsaw)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:21:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] B4 changed the To: line?
References: <134901c28003$58d1d900$1e00a8c0@onsnet.org>
	<NBBBJBHAGKJNNALLEJDFCEMIPPAA.cooleydd@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <15808.5388.751877.872357@gargle.gargle.HOWL>


>>>>> "DC" == Don Cooley <cooleydd at pacbell.net> writes:

    DC> We have had a nice long debate about changing the To: line.

I think we can stop the debate now.  I am going to back this change
out for MM2.1 and we can re-address it for later versions.  I'll leave
the code commented out so anybody who wants the behavior shouldn't
find it too hard to re-enable.

    DC> Why can't the List ID contain only the name of the list and
    DC> not the other material.  Easy sort.

Because List-ID format is defined by an RFC.  We would need a /really/
good reason to break an internet standard, and I don't think we have
one for this header.

-Barry


From wash at wananchi.com  Wed Oct 30 18:49:01 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 20:49:01 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions problem in Debian
Message-ID: <20021030174901.GB98803@ns2.wananchi.com>


Hiya,


I have installed mailman-2.0.13 for a friend in Debian Linux and it's giving
me this error:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/qrunner", line 276, in ?
    lock.lock(timeout=0.5)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 219, in lock
    self.__write()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 350, in __write
    fp = open(self.__tmpfname, 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/lib/mailman/locks/qrunner.lock.fish.17284


I have searched the archives and found suggested solutions, but they seem not to work
for me.

I have done chmod g+w $prefix/locks  - no solution
I have now done chmod 1777 locks which seems to have at leasted paused the numerous
error mails which were going to mailman-owner.

I believe this is not cool. I am a FreeBSD user. 

Can Debian users advise.

Mailman is running as mailman:mailman, not list. I have reconfigured a few things.

Thanks in advance




        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From gwolosh at njit.edu  Wed Oct 30 18:52:40 2002
From: gwolosh at njit.edu (Gedaliah Wolosh)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 12:52:40 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Integrating LDAP and Mailman 2.1b4
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0210301252000.3297-100000@kippah.njit.edu>


Hi folks,

I have spent the last several hours looking for documentation on how to
integrate LDAP with mailman.  What I need to be able to do is create a
list where the membership is based on certain criteria fed to an LDAP
server.  Is this possible??  If anyone has done something like this I
would appreciate explicit instructions on how to do this.

--Gedaliah




From jeremyp at pobox.com  Wed Oct 30 19:07:56 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 13:07:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problems view archives (again you say)
In-Reply-To: 
	<D13DE2BD344ED2119D5E00AA00607B44159A06@server3.excitech.com.au>
References: <D13DE2BD344ED2119D5E00AA00607B44159A06@server3.excitech.com.au>
Message-ID: <1036001277.25445.17.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 07:23, James Quiring wrote:
> 
> my httpd.conf includes:
> 
> Alias	/pipermail/	"/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/"
> 
> </Directory 	"usr/local/mailman/archives/public">
> 	Allow overide none
> 	Options FollowSymLinks
> </Directory>

That syntax is all wrong .  Look at the httpd.conf file and follow the
syntax of the other directives, or read the Apache documentation.  The
syntax should be something like:

<Directory 	/usr/local/mailman/archives/public >
	AllowOverride none
	Options FollowSymLinks
</Directory>


Also, check your Apache error log (might be in /var/log/httpd/error_log,
or elsewhere, can't remember where FreeBSD puts it).  The Apache error
log should list the exact reason for the permission error.

Hope this helps,
Jeremy



From pbm at autistici.org  Wed Oct 30 19:10:15 2002
From: pbm at autistici.org (pbm)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 19:10:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions problem in Debian
In-Reply-To: <20021030174901.GB98803@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <20021030174901.GB98803@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <20021030181015.GK12493@marchiori.net>

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: msg.pgp
Url: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021030/e66b3288/attachment.pot 

From jeremyp at pobox.com  Wed Oct 30 19:12:20 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 13:12:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help!
In-Reply-To: <00df01c28028$b24049c0$bd552144@aberdn01.md.comcast.net>
References: <00df01c28028$b24049c0$bd552144@aberdn01.md.comcast.net>
Message-ID: <1036001542.25445.23.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 10:26, Director wrote:
> Hi my list is down, it's been down since Monday evening...this happened once before. Nothing has changed, just stopped working. Any ideas?

What do you mean by "down" ?  What error messages are you getting?  Do
the log files show anything unusual?

Also, run "df" and make sure you don't have any full filesystems.  Full
filesystems are the most common cause of "nothing changed but it's
broke" errors.

--Jeremy



From jeremyp at pobox.com  Wed Oct 30 19:10:24 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 30 Oct 2002 13:10:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help! "All recipients refused"
In-Reply-To: <35548232086.20021030181606@163.net>
References: <35548232086.20021030181606@163.net>
Message-ID: <1036001426.25442.21.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 05:16, Leewei wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
>  I installed Mailman RPM package on my Red Hat 7.2. But the list can
> not relay any e-mail! I can read all sent mails in list archives on
> web but none of list members can get the mail!
> 
> In /var/log/mailman/smtp file, it goes like this:
> ...
> Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
> Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
> Oct 30 18:03:00 2002 (10101) smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds
> Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
> Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) All recipients refused: (111, 'Connection refused')
> Oct 30 18:04:00 2002 (10106) smtp for 5 recips, completed in 0.005 seconds
> ...

Have you configured your MTA (mail transport agent, such as sendmail if
you're using RHL's default)?  It looks like it's refusing connections. 
Maybe you need to allow external connections to sendmail?  This could be
fixed by editing /etc/mail/sendmail.mc and regenerating sendmail.cf  --
there is a comment in /etc/mail/sendmail.mc that tells you what to do.

--Jeremy



From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 20:22:23 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:22:23 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>
References: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021029193308.GA25878@io.com> <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20021030192223.GI10004@sherohman.org>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 07:51:03PM -0800, J C Lawrence wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:33:08 -0600 
> John Buttery <john at io.com> wrote:
> > Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> > hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have
> > your address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  
> 
> One has a List-ID header, one doesn't.  
> 
> One has an In-Reply-To that references my prior post, one doesn't.
> 
> > Hint: you can't.  
> 
> Sure I can.

Try again.  Your message included both

In-Reply-To: Message from John Buttery <john at io.com>
   of "Tue, 29 Oct 2002 13:33:08 CST."  <20021029193308.GA25878 at io.com>

and

List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>

among its headers.  Both would have the In-Reply-To: header, still
leaving John without a way to determine whether a list message was
sent only to the list or both to him directly and to the list.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 20:17:37 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:17:37 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>
	<363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021030191736.GH10004@sherohman.org>

Forgive me if I'm a little behind on the issues, but this is
something I didn't notice until the huge thread erupted...

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 12:30:06PM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:33  AM, John Buttery wrote:
> >  "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
> >what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is what
> >you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?  It's in
> >plain black and white.
> 
> we aren't re-addressing. We're standardizing the way the existing 
> addresses are presented.

I am sending this message with the header

To: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users at python.org>

If it arrives with a different address (such as "To:  Your Name
<you at some.domain.com>"), then it has been re-addressed.  This is not
standardizing the way the existing addresses are presented because
"Your Name <you at some.domain.com>" is not an existing address.

> >  Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> >hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have your
> >address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  Hint: you can't.
> 
> sure I can. If it went through the list server, it has a List-ID 
> attached. So it's clear which one came from where.

That just tells you whether that specific copy came in via the list.
It does not tell you whether a second copy was sent to you directly.
To: munging destroys information just as clearly as Reply-To:
munging.

> filtering list mail based on to/cc is a flawed approach. to argue that 
> we can't break what's broken by definition is a flawed argument. IMHO.

If the filtering on to/cc is being done solely for the sake of
determining whether a copy of the message was sent directly to you
personally (and not to determine whether the message was received via
a mailing list, why is this flawed?

> I guess I'm arguing that it's the end of the days of "bulk" mail, and 
> the beginning of the days of "mass" mail. There are significant 
> semantical differences and advantages.

Such as?

> To use paper-mail analogies, 
> it's time to move from sending out everything to "Resident", and start 
> adding enough intelligence to the system so that it actually shows up 
> with your name on it.

Sending paper mail to <current resident's name> instead of to
"resident" is a cheap trick used by bulk mail houses to convince
people that they're receiving personalized mail instead of form
letters.  Faking the To: header is no different.  The mail isn't
being sent to you personally, so it shouldn't claim that it is.

(And, yes, it also annoys me to receive paper mail which starts off
with "Dear David," but is obviously a form letter.)

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 20:33:00 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:33:00 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <7304E0FA-EB73-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029185442.2802B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<7304E0FA-EB73-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021030193300.GJ10004@sherohman.org>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 11:20:13AM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 10:54  AM, Jay Sekora wrote:
> >Whatever the merits of your arguments about what headers I should be 
> >using
> >to filter which lists, the fact is that taking something the original
> >composer of the mail entered in the To: field and moving it to the Cc:
> 
> But you're making a false assumption here, that the list was in the to 
> line. That's not a safe assumption. it could be in to, cc or bcc. Just 
> as you could be in to, cc or bcc. if you're assuming where the 
> addresses are, you'll break at random occasions when users don't follow 
> your ideas of appropriate.

I'm not sure that you're following Jay's point.  He appears to me to
be arguing (and I agree with him) that To:, Cc:, and Bcc: headers
have semantic differences in their usage.  Your standardization of
what goes where destroys those semantics.

Yes, the semantics are not universally recognized and some users
won't follow them.  But that doesn't mean they should be squashed.
(Note also that I'm talking here about distinctions to humans and
explicitly not about filtering on them.)

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 20:44:46 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:44:46 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
	<47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021030194446.GK10004@sherohman.org>

On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 07:32:56PM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> No, it's not. Not a bit. One of the things my organization does is 
> manage the email systems for our corporation (not a small one). and we 
> set policy on email clients quite simply: "here are the ones we 
> support. If you use something else, we wish you luck. If it doesn't 
> work right, we hope you can fix it".

I have no recollection of any mailing list ever sending me a list of
supported MUAs when I subscribed.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 20:55:01 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:55:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Big discussion on filtering
In-Reply-To: <20021030071342.M74122@nleaudio.com>
References: <E186my6-000121-00@mail.python.org>
	<20021030071342.M74122@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <20021030195501.GL10004@sherohman.org>

On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 03:13:42AM -0400, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:
> Wouldn't it be easy to filter mail based on the subject?  Most lists
> (including ones here) add [listname] to the subject... So you could key in on
> that, no?  Yes, you would get the occasional direct reply from someone on the
> list, but that should be part of your list folder anyways, right?

Uh...  Wrong.

If I get a direct reply to a list posting, it is either an offlist reply
to me only (in which case putting it in the list folder is bad because
the list didn't handle it) or it is something which the sender wanted
me, for whatever reason, to see more urgently than other list members
(in which case it should go into my main inbox so I'll see it sooner
and it will stand out from the other list messages).

Or at least that would be the case if I didn't send out my messages with
a Mail-Reply-To: header indicating that I want all replies to my list
messages to be Cc:ed to me, because (like in the second case above)
I want to see replies to my list posts immediately, in my main inbox,
instead of trying to sift them out of the list mailbox whenever I get
around to reading the list again.

You may want offlist replies and Cc:s of onlist replies to go into your
list mailbox, but that preference is by no means universal.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From rhorer at swbell.net  Wed Oct 30 21:00:06 2002
From: rhorer at swbell.net (Kyle Rhorer)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:00:06 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021030191736.GH10004@sherohman.org>
References: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>
 <363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
 <20021030191736.GH10004@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <200210301400.06506.rhorer@swbell.net>

On Wednesday 30 October 2002 13:17, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> To: munging destroys information just as clearly as Reply-To:
> munging.

I have to disagree that Reply-To: munging destroys information.  Here's 
why -- most MUA's I have used do not by default show the Reply-To: 
header for either incoming or outgoing mail.  Some will let you 
configure them to show it, some won't.  Many (most?) users have never 
seen a Reply-To: header (or field if you're speaking of entering info 
into the MUA for sending), so they don't rely on it to give them any 
meaningful information.  If a list administrator wants to preserve the 
From: header but cause replies to go back to the list, then IMO 
Reply-To: munging is an appropriate way to cause such behavior.  In 
contrast, I'm leaning toward the opinion that changing the To: header 
is Bad Juju?.

> Faking the To: header is no different.  The mail isn't
> being sent to you personally, so it shouldn't claim that it is.

That point is what tipped my scale.

Kyle
-- 
Since the general civilizations of mankind, I believe there are more
instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual
and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden
usurpations.
                                                  -James Madison




From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 21:05:22 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:05:22 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <200210301400.06506.rhorer@swbell.net>
References: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>
	<363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021030191736.GH10004@sherohman.org> <200210301400.06506.rhorer@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <20021030200522.GM10004@sherohman.org>

On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 02:00:06PM -0600, Kyle Rhorer wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 October 2002 13:17, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> > To: munging destroys information just as clearly as Reply-To:
> > munging.
> 
> I have to disagree that Reply-To: munging destroys information.

You're right.  Strike that statement from my earlier post.  Reply-To:
munging affects functionality, it doesn't destroy information, given
that most/all implementations of Reply-To: munging will preserve an
existing Reply-To: header.

In all honesty, I'm not quite sure what I was thinking when I typed
that...

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From rhorer at swbell.net  Wed Oct 30 21:12:54 2002
From: rhorer at swbell.net (Kyle Rhorer)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:12:54 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <20021030194446.GK10004@sherohman.org>
References: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
 <47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
 <20021030194446.GK10004@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <200210301412.54086.rhorer@swbell.net>

On Wednesday 30 October 2002 13:44, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 29, 2002 at 07:32:56PM -0800, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:
> > No, it's not. Not a bit. One of the things my organization does is
> > manage the email systems for our corporation (not a small one). and
> > we set policy on email clients quite simply: "here are the ones we
> > support. If you use something else, we wish you luck. If it doesn't
> > work right, we hope you can fix it".
>
> I have no recollection of any mailing list ever sending me a list of
> supported MUAs when I subscribed.

IIRC, he wasn't speaking in the context of mailing lists.  He was 
speaking in the context of a corporate helpdesk that supports employee 
or contract customer users.  The fact that it's impractical to make the 
same sort of proclaimations in a public mailing list setting is why 
historically an MLM would attempt to cater to the LCD.  If I understand 
the discussion that has gone on here, the thinking is that it's time to 
push the issue a little bit in order to raise the bar.  I agree with 
that line of thinking, but I don't necessarily agree with all the ways 
in which it was implemented.  However, what seems at first glance to be 
a change for the worse sometimes turns out in the long term to be a 
change for the better, so I'm keeping an open mind and respecting the 
judgement of those wiser in such matters than myself.

Kyle
-- 
Since the general civilizations of mankind, I believe there are more
instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual
and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden
usurpations.
                                                  -James Madison




From esper at sherohman.org  Wed Oct 30 21:29:27 2002
From: esper at sherohman.org (Dave Sherohman)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:29:27 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <200210301412.54086.rhorer@swbell.net>
References: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
	<47BDF9F6-EBB8-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021030194446.GK10004@sherohman.org> <200210301412.54086.rhorer@swbell.net>
Message-ID: <20021030202926.GP10004@sherohman.org>

On Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 02:12:54PM -0600, Kyle Rhorer wrote:
> On Wednesday 30 October 2002 13:44, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> > I have no recollection of any mailing list ever sending me a list of
> > supported MUAs when I subscribed.
> 
> IIRC, he wasn't speaking in the context of mailing lists.  He was 
> speaking in the context of a corporate helpdesk that supports employee 
> or contract customer users.

Which was exactly my point.  Even though it may be appropriate (and
necessary) for Chuq's organization to provide lists of supported software
to their customers, this does not mean that it is appropriate for MLM
developers or list owners to dictate to their users what mail clients
must be used with the list.

> If I understand 
> the discussion that has gone on here, the thinking is that it's time to 
> push the issue a little bit in order to raise the bar.

I agree, so long as the change is for the better, such as the List-*
headers.  I also tend to be quick when it comes to suggesting that
people upgrade to MUAs that support a reply-to-list function (or demand
that their MUA vendor add it).  But rearranging existing headers and
clobbering their original content strikes me as a very, very bad idea.

Was this discussed onlist before being implemented?  If so, does anyone
remember a thread title and approximate time frame so I can look it up in
the archive?  This discussion has focused entirely on why it's bad and I'd
like to see what potential positive points there might be in its favor.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


From rhorer at swbell.net  Wed Oct 30 21:48:26 2002
From: rhorer at swbell.net (Kyle Rhorer)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:48:26 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Continuation of discussion about substituting To:
	header
In-Reply-To: <20021030202926.GP10004@sherohman.org>
References: <a05111b0fb9e4ffd1c5db@[10.1.19.62]>
 <200210301412.54086.rhorer@swbell.net> <20021030202926.GP10004@sherohman.org>
Message-ID: <200210301448.26781.rhorer@swbell.net>

On Wednesday 30 October 2002 14:29, Dave Sherohman wrote:
> Was this discussed onlist before being implemented?

Apparently it was discussed on mailman-developers.

>  If so, does
> anyone remember a thread title and approximate time frame so I can
> look it up in the archive?

I was just thinking not more than 5 minutes ago about making the 
following request, but you (sort of) beat me to it.  Here goes:  there 
was apparently discussion on mailman-developers that hashed out some of 
the same issues we're discussing here.  If the discussion there was 
anything like it is here, it would take quite a lot of time to wade 
through the archives to follow the discussion.  Is there someone here 
who is also subscribed to mailman-developers and wouldn't mind posting 
a summary of the discussion that went on there?

Thanks,
Kyle
-- 
Since the general civilizations of mankind, I believe there are more
instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual
and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden
usurpations.
                                                  -James Madison




From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 06:20:37 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 21:20:37 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dave Sherohman <esper@sherohman.org> 
   of "Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:22:23 CST." <20021030192223.GI10004@sherohman.org> 
References: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021029193308.GA25878@io.com> <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>
	<20021030192223.GI10004@sherohman.org> 
Message-ID: <10871.1036041637@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 13:22:23 -0600 
Dave Sherohman <esper at sherohman.org> wrote:

> Both would have the In-Reply-To: header, still leaving John without a
> way to determine whether a list message was sent only to the list or
> both to him directly and to the list.

Sure he can: he has two copies of the message.  One sent thru the list,
and one sent directly.  In looking at each message he can see clearly
how it got to him _AND_ that they came by different paths.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From antonin.hily at forpro-creteil.org  Thu Oct 31 06:47:57 2002
From: antonin.hily at forpro-creteil.org (Antonin Hily)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:47:57 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pb with postfix... HELP !!!!!
Message-ID: <4b0ceef63ab1ebec81cc23b2125c300c3dc0c524@>



Hi !

i'm french user of mailman...
my config :
Woody + postfix + mailman 2.0.11
when i create new list, i can't send mail to...
*******
This is the Postfix program at host XXXXX.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

                        The Postfix program

<service-info at XXXXXX>: unknown user: "service-info"



i don't understand why...
did i create a user and put an alias in /etc/aliases ?????
argh....

thanks a lot

antonin




____________________
Antonin Hily
DAFCO Cr?teil




From tmiller at nethawk.com  Thu Oct 31 07:45:55 2002
From: tmiller at nethawk.com (Tim Miller)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 01:45:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] StripMIME not catching MS attachment
In-Reply-To: <15802.52753.139705.927733@gargle.gargle.HOWL>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20021031014033.0358eec0@mail.nethawk.com>

We are using StripMime on our lists.  It is not catching winmail.dat attachments.  Has anyone modified stripmime to take care of this MS sewage?

Offending headers below.

Encoding: 19 TEXT, 74 UUENCODE 
X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00

TIA

Tim



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 09:39:50 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 00:39:50 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from alex wetmore <alex@phred.org> 
   of "Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:05:32 PST." <20021030075359.N669-100000@phred.org> 
References: <20021030075359.N669-100000@phred.org> 
Message-ID: <13360.1036053590@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 08:05:32 -0800 (PST) 
alex wetmore <alex at phred.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) alex wetmore
>> <alex at phred.org> wrote: 

>>> 1) You are using an email system which removes duplicates (based on
>>> the Message-Id header).  Microsoft Exchange 2000 is one such system.
>>> If Mailman is changing the headers so much perhaps it should stick a
>>> new Message-Id on the message though.

>> We should start out admitting that such mail systems are broken and
>> then decide how far we want to cater to such broken systems.

> Eliminating duplicates is a useful feature, not a broken one.  

My original statement was more generous than I intended.  Corrected:

  MTAs which do duplicate suppression are broken.  That's the function
  of the MUA, or, in very constrained instances, the LDA.

> Think about the hacks that Mailman-2.1 has to prevent sending the
> duplicate.  

Yup.  I'm not fond of their existence.

> In a complex corporate topology there are reasons why duplicates are
> sometimes generated, but clients should have no reason to see them.

Then they configure their MUAs not to.

> Exchange is not the only system that does this, but it might be the
> widest deployed.

FWLIW Cyrus can do dupe suppression at the LDA level.  Sadly its a
global setting.

>> There are multiple ways to achieve this.  Parsing To: is one of the
>> more fragile ways.  Far more effective and near-guaranteed to be
>> correct (except for the standard broken software case as above) is
>> tracking In-Reply-To: from your original post(s).

> That depends on keeping a database of sent message-ids and comparing
> In-Reply-To against each of them.  Few clients support this.

Ignoring the closed source or otherwise opaque cases (ie no LDA/MDA
control): tracking In-Reply-To: headers is neither complex or expensive.
I do it here and have done for years.

Counting the opaque and transparent cases: Partially true.  Most MUAs
will happily thread under your original message.

  Note to self: Must investigate doing this sort of thing under Sieve.
  I'm fairly sure it's not possible (need to escape the Sieve sandbox
  for localFS access).

> If you can recommend a decent text-based IMAP client that runs on Unix
> and Win32 and which supports this functionality I'm all ears.

Sorry, I don't track the Windows state of affairs.  Its been 12 years
since I used windows anything more than trivially and I've no interest
in changing that.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 11:05:58 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 02:05:58 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Jay Sekora <jay@ccs.neu.edu> 
	<20021030155748.0564013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu> 
References: <20021030155748.0564013530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu> 
Message-ID: <14276.1036058758@kanga.nu>

On Wed, 30 Oct 2002 10:57:47 -0500 
Jay Sekora <jay at ccs.neu.edu> wrote:

> So if Mailman decides to change the Subject: header to "What this
> message is about:", transcribe the addresses in the To:, Cc:, and
> From: fields into EBCDIC and reverse the local part and the domain,
> and put all the headers at the bottom of the message instead of the
> top, would my beef be with my mail reader for not displaying that
> properly?

Yes, if such a thing complied with RFC 2822 and the rest.  Happily, it,
and the transforms you describe, don't.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 11:11:58 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 02:11:58 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham
	<Nigel.Metheringham@dev.InTechnology.co.uk> 
	<1035970398.6516.16.camel@gaspode.localnet> 
References: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org> <20926.1035949046@kanga.nu>
	<1035970398.6516.16.camel@gaspode.localnet> 
Message-ID: <14398.1036059118@kanga.nu>

On 30 Oct 2002 09:33:18 +0000 
Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk> wrote:

> [Interesting to see that the Mail List Experts (presumably a mailman
> list of this type could loosely be described as that) still suffer
> from the 2000 threads under one unrelated subject problem :-) ]

I'll confess that I gave up on Subject; years ago.

> On Wed, 2002-10-30 at 03:37, J C Lawrence wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Oct 2002 10:56:39 -0800 (PST) alex wetmore
>> <alex at phred.org> wrote:

>> We should start out admitting that such mail systems are broken and
>> then decide how far we want to cater to such broken systems.

> Accepting that it is broken to attempt to duplicate filter on message
> id, its also broken to send out different messages with the same
> message id - if only for the sake of the poor schmuck attempting to
> work through his MTA logs where 1000 different (different injection,
> sender and recipient) messages all have the same message id.  It can
> be done but it gets much harder...

<nods violently in agreement>

> Oh rats - I guess that totally breaks threading then.... this is a
> horrid morass.

Yes, and thus the root of the question on whether MLM's should rewrite
Message-ID.  I tend to the side that they shouldn't on the principle of
least surprise and the fact that a reply to the private fork which is
CC'ed to the list won't thread against the list-form of the original
message.

> To go back to the To header handling.  The basic reason I don't like
> it is because I use the headers to mentally process a message's
> relevance to me - along with various other things.  A message that has
> my name in the To/Cc line I assume the sender had a reason for
> including me - ie I was involved in the thread previously and so might
> be expected to continue an interest.  Now I will have 2 copies of that
> mail - main mailbox and list mailbox - but I generally always reply
> from the list mailbox.  The To mangling breaks my mental processes
> (and I'm getting too old to go and buy some more) without any real
> gain that I can see.  It looks too much like a spammers trick to
> persuade me its really a personal message.

I don't disagree.

However we're talking about an option here, not a mandate.  Privately I
want Mailman's VERP-ish knobs and I'll play with personalistion of To:
on my smaller lists to see how that goes before possibly rolling out to
the larger lists if well received.  BUT, when using Mailman as a
corporate representation tool (which I do), eg as a front face to
marketing or engineering, then personalising To: is flat out wonderful
and does exactly what I (as the list owner and target of Marketing's ire
in those cases) want.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk  Thu Oct 31 11:44:40 2002
From: Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk (Nigel Metheringham)
Date: 31 Oct 2002 10:44:40 +0000
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <14398.1036059118@kanga.nu>
References: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org>
	<1035970398.6516.16.camel@gaspode.localnet>  
	<14398.1036059118@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <1036061081.11669.4.camel@gaspode.localnet>

On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 10:11, J C Lawrence wrote:
> However we're talking about an option here, not a mandate.  Privately I
> want Mailman's VERP-ish knobs and I'll play with personalistion of To:
> on my smaller lists to see how that goes before possibly rolling out to
> the larger lists if well received.  BUT, when using Mailman as a
> corporate representation tool (which I do), eg as a front face to
> marketing or engineering, then personalising To: is flat out wonderful
> and does exactly what I (as the list owner and target of Marketing's ire
> in those cases) want.

True - the discussion has become a mixture of what Mailman should be
able to do, along with how Mailman should be running this list.... and
to a large degree my To comments are in relation to this list with the
obvious requirement that it must be possible to run Mailman without
playing games with the To header :-)

	Nigel.
-- 
[ Nigel Metheringham           Nigel.Metheringham at InTechnology.co.uk ]
[ - Comments in this message are my own and not ITO opinion/policy - ]



From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Oct 31 11:54:09 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:54:09 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions problem in Debian
In-Reply-To: <20021030181015.GK12493@marchiori.net>
References: <20021030174901.GB98803@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<20021030181015.GK12493@marchiori.net>
Message-ID: <20021031105409.GM84992@ns2.wananchi.com>

* pbm <pbm at autistici.org> [20021030 21:13]: wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Odhiambo Washington, Wed, Oct 30, 2002 at 08:49:01PM +0300:
> > Mailman is running as mailman:mailman, not list. I have reconfigured a few things.
> 
> this is why. 
> 
> you should try
> find / -group list -exec chgrp mailman '{}' \;
> but be aware that any apt-get upgrade that upgrades mailman will break it again.


Ok. So on Debian, what are the following values?

mailman userid
mailman groupid


The answer to those 2 Qs will help me fix the stuff at compile time.




-Wash

-- 
Odhiambo Washington   <wash at wananchi.com>  "The box said 'Requires
Wananchi Online Ltd.  www.wananchi.com      Windows 95, NT, or better,'
Tel: +254 2 313985-9  +254 2 313922         so I installed FreeBSD."   
GSM: +254 72 743223   +254 733 744121       This sig is McQ!  :-)


I'm going to live forever, or die trying!
		-- Spider Robinson


From alex at phred.org  Thu Oct 31 14:59:43 2002
From: alex at phred.org (alex wetmore)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 05:59:43 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] StripMIME not catching MS attachment
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20021031014033.0358eec0@mail.nethawk.com>
Message-ID: <20021031055843.U669-100000@phred.org>

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002, Tim Miller wrote:
> We are using StripMime on our lists.  It is not catching winmail.dat attachments.  Has anyone modified stripmime to take care of this MS sewage?
>
> Offending headers below.
>
> Encoding: 19 TEXT, 74 UUENCODE
> X-MS-Attachment: WINMAIL.DAT 0 00-00-1980 00:00

StripMIME doesn't handle UUEncoded attachments, only MIME attachments.

Only really really old versions of the Exchange client or server
send winmail.dat.  You might suggest that your user upgrade to a
more recent client.

alex



From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Oct 31 17:13:41 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:13:41 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disguising e-mail addresses in 2.0.x impossible??
Message-ID: <20021031161341.GZ84992@ns2.wananchi.com>


Hiya,

Perhaps I don't know how to frame the question. That may explain why I've never
received a response for it. I am asking for the last time this one.

I know it is possible, because Nigel has done it on exim0users archives.
How do I make the e-mail addresses of the posters appear as "user at domain"
and not user at domain in the searchable archives?

In exim-users archives, the footer says "
This archive was generated by Pipermail 0.05 (Mailman edition)."

I hope it's not pipermail that does the disguising, but some code within
Mailman. Which patch is that one??

Well, how is it done???? Specific reference to 2.0.x.


Thanks in advance.

        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington, wash at wananchi.com	. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
http://ns2.wananchi.com/~wash/		. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From john at io.com  Thu Oct 31 17:16:54 2002
From: john at io.com (John Buttery)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:16:54 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029193308.GA25878@io.com>
	<363BE27C-EB7D-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021031161653.GA12156@io.com>

* Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> [2002-10-29 12:30:06 -0800]:
> On Tuesday, October 29, 2002, at 11:33  AM, John Buttery wrote:
> 
> >  "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
> >what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is what
> >you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?  It's in
> >plain black and white.
> 
> we aren't re-addressing. We're standardizing the way the existing 
> addresses are presented.

  Sorry, I should have specified that I was defining "re-addressing" as
precisely that...although I would use the word "rearranging" rather than
"standardizing".  :)

> >>um, interesting philosophy. I don't buy it. Not for a moment.
> >
> >  Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> >hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have your
> >address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  Hint: you can't.
> 
> sure I can. If it went through the list server, it has a List-ID 
> attached. So it's clear which one came from where.

  Hmm, good point.  I still don't think it justifies the change, but
you're right.  You could make the argument that someone may get the list
posting and then wonder what happened to the other mail (the one that
was sent directly to them, as indicated by the To: field), but I guess
that's pretty nitpicky.

> >(Of
> >course, I acknowledge that sending a copy directly to a person who is
> >already subscribed to the list is a bit silly/redundant,
> 
> See, I don't agree with that, either. I've explained how I take 
> advantage of this in my filtering to continue discussions I'm involved 
> in without having to paw through all my list mail...

  I would say the "correct" (notice my use of quotes to denote opinion)
way to handle that situation would be to have your MUA identify the
messages you're interested in, in the list mailbox's listing...rather
than depending on getting a copy to your main inbox; I guess both our
points are valid here, though.

> >  Saying you "don't buy" something that someone has stated is their
> >opinion/feeling is indefensible.  :)
> 
> yeah, but when a situation is arguably a subjective decision in the 
> first place, sometimes it's all you get.

  Hah!  Touche.  :)

> >  When two mails are sent out, I'll get one filtered into my folder for
> >the list, and the other one sent to my main inbox; that's the way the
> >sender intended it, and that's the way I want it.
> 
> and if you filter on list-id, that's how you'll get it no matter who 
> does what to the to/cc/bcc. If you DON'T filter on list-id, you depend 
> on the end users doing what you expect them to do. That's a filtering 
> method guaranteed to fail randomly.
> 
> filtering list mail based on to/cc is a flawed approach. to argue that 
> we can't break what's broken by definition is a flawed argument. IMHO.

  Yeah, you're right about that.  Personally I configure procmail to
filter on every single header I can for each list, even though it's
overkill, so I'm not really affected by it...I was just making the
argument in principle, but it doesn't stand up.  (Except maybe for users
of Outlook* and other broken MUAs, but I'm already pretty tired of those
programs' authors' antics from being on the mutt mailing list for so
long...)

> >  True...but should be unecessary.
> 
> but it is, because it's the ONLY reliable filtering tool you have. the 
> others depend on people doing what you consider "right", so they fail 
> when those users don't. If anything, this new header format 
> rationalizes that so decisions by the end users can't break the 
> filtering, if you absolutely MUST use to/from/cc for some reason.

  That's a good point, and a solid argument for making the feature
configurable (as opposed to not having it at all).  Sort of like lists
that mangle the subject line to help out those same MUAs.  *cough* :)

> >Colorization of lines (based on whether your exact address is in the
> >headers somewhere) in a message index is another, and List-ID won't 
> >help
> >you on that one. :)
> 
> and if you'll notice, I haven't refuted that one. it's a point that 
> needs consideration.

  Well, this is kind of a lame way to make a point (I'm referring to
what I'm about to say, not what you said), but you could argue that
people who would turn on this sort of personalization to bootstrap their
MUA's inferior filtering capabilities are not likely to be able to take
advantage of the finer points of stuff like index colorizing, so it's a
moot point.  :p
  Personally, I think this particular eventuality would be addressed
excellently by putting YACV in there to make this particular behaviour
separate from the rest of the personalization. 

> >  But really, this is all getting away from the original philosophical
> >point that an address that a message was not sent to should not be 
> >faked
> >into the headers.
> 
> I'd argue whether that's true.
> 
> I guess I'm arguing that it's the end of the days of "bulk" mail, and 
> the beginning of the days of "mass" mail. There are significant 
> semantical differences and advantages. To use paper-mail analogies, 
> it's time to move from sending out everything to "Resident", and start 
> adding enough intelligence to the system so that it actually shows up 
> with your name on it.

  I completely see what you mean by that, but I think it's wrong.  :)
For most lists, anyway.  Maybe I just have an overly pragmatic mind, but
I see a real, discernable difference between "the list" and "the members
of the list".  I don't, and don't want to, think of this mailing list as
a set of people, I want to think of it as "the list".  Hmm, that doesn't
make any sense at all, does it?  Well, maybe I can't put my finger on
it, but there's something about having my actual address in the To:
field that fundamentally changes the way I see a message.  Funny how the
little things pop up.  I understand that the logic to put a person's own
address on each mail is more technologically advanced, but I just don't
think it should be done that way.
  Don't get me wrong, I fully support this feature as an option (as I
support _any_ feature as an option)...I'm sure there's times when it's
appropriate.  Just keep it away from me, please.  :) 

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John Buttery
                                     (Web page temporarily unavailable)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/b660ed0b/attachment.pgp 

From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Oct 31 17:22:07 2002
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 19:22:07 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] obscure email addresses_ where?
In-Reply-To: <JJGWMLBAMKLF0OJTSLGPKIRLRP74.3dbef6b8@750>
References: <JJGWMLBAMKLF0OJTSLGPKIRLRP74.3dbef6b8@750>
Message-ID: <20021031162207.GB84992@ns2.wananchi.com>

* TyrusMaynard <rustym at main.nc.us> [20021030 20:18]: wrote:
>    In my short experience as a Mailman 2.0.13   list administrator, I have had this 
> setting:
> obscure_addresses (privacy): Show member addrs so they're not directly 
> recognizable as email addrs?
> 
> toggled  as  "Yes"  since the inception of the list.
> 
> The help says that the following will result:
> "Setting this option causes member email addresses to be transformed when 
> they are presented on list web pages (both in text and as links), so they're not 
> trivially recognizable as email addresses. The intention is to to prevent the 
> addresses from being snarfed up by automated web scanners for use by 
> spammers".
> 
> However the mail items  in the list archives  still show the  "@"   in all email 
> addresses.   Only the  list of  member addresses  has an "AT" replacement to 
> thwart  spam robot scanners  ( and that is configured to be viewed only by 
> admin anyway).
> 
> ???Is this feature working properly? ...  and will there be a future  Mailman 
> version that will  eliminate emails entirely so that they elude more than trivial  
> interpretation?
> 
> Since I also have the archives set to a private status:
> (archive_private (archive), could  this privacy setting be the reason why the  
> "@"  values are not substituted.?     If so , can I expect for the emails to be 
> hidden or substituted  if and when the archive is coverted to public status.


In summary, that feature doesn't work. I can say that conclusively. Some experienced
list admins have it working but I believe they used some patch that someone forgot
to document ;)



-Wash

-- 
Odhiambo Washington   <wash at wananchi.com>  "The box said 'Requires
Wananchi Online Ltd.  www.wananchi.com      Windows 95, NT, or better,'
Tel: +254 2 313985-9  +254 2 313922         so I installed FreeBSD."   
GSM: +254 72 743223   +254 733 744121       This sig is McQ!  :-)


Pound for pound, the amoeba is the most vicious animal on earth.


From aeverett at webintl.com  Thu Oct 31 17:30:47 2002
From: aeverett at webintl.com (Albert Everett)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:30:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron strangeness
Message-ID: <1C7F2338-ECEE-11D6-97E1-00039345F4BA@webintl.com>

A few days ago I installed FreeBSD 4.7 on a server after backing up 
/usr/local/mailman to an iBook running OSX.

After rebooting the server, I installed Mailman 2.0.13 from the ports 
collection. After the Mailman installation, I copied the lists and 
archives back into /usr/local/mailman on the server from the iBook and 
ran check_perms and check_db. After that, I adjusted list and archives 
perms manually, using a working Mailman installation (another FreeBSD 
machine) as an example.

The web interface to the lists is doing fine. Sendmail config is fine.

PROBLEM: Delivery to the Mailman lists works fine, but posted messages 
aren't blown out to list members.

Troubleshooting so far:
-- mailman user and group in place
-- perms inside /usr/local/mailman/cron are same as on another working 
Mailman machine, same for /var/cron/tabs/mailman
-- python executable by everyone
-- perms on scripts in /usr/local/mailman/cron are 644, owned by 
root:mailman
-- /var/cron/tabs/mailman is in place and is the same as 
/usr/local/mailman/cron/crontab.in
-- /var/log/cron shows qrunner being run every minute, but 
/var/log/maillog not showing any delivery to list members
-- qrunner works when I run  'python -S qrunnner' manually as root, 
afterward /var/log/maillog shows successful delivery to list members

I'm out of ideas. Anyone out there have a clue?

Albert



From jsingh at fdu.edu  Thu Oct 31 17:22:29 2002
From: jsingh at fdu.edu (jsingh)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:22:29 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help
In-Reply-To: <mailman.66.1036078243.27838.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <003e01c280f9$b888cba0$410bee84@FDUJACK>

Hey Guys

            I am a newbie doing this mailman install. So far I have
installed everything fine, I am able to view almost everything over the
web(leaving the archives).

I created a new mailing list, and mailman sent out a message to all the
subscribers I enrolled. But when I send a message to the mailing list I
got this in my 

Mail log 

"Oct 30 18:58:18 dragon sendmail[1508]: g9UNwImp001508:
<mytestlist at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "

So I sent an email back to the admin and I got the same thing back  

"Oct 30 19:02:53 dragon sendmail[5302]: g9V02rmp005302:
<mytestlist-admin at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "

Could anyone possibly tell me where I am staggering from my path. Please
I need help on this, anyone who does , my thanks to them before hand.

 

 

Newbie --



From john at io.com  Thu Oct 31 17:35:01 2002
From: john at io.com (John Buttery)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:35:01 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>
References: <20021029183820.1214B13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<981D3F66-EB6E-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
	<20021029193308.GA25878@io.com> <21146.1035949863@kanga.nu>
Message-ID: <20021031163501.GB12156@io.com>

* J C Lawrence <claw at kanga.nu> [2002-10-29 19:51:03 -0800]:
> John Buttery <john at io.com> wrote:
>  
> > "Lie" is kinda an interesting way to put it, but I think we all know
> > what he means.  How can you say that readdressing a mail (which is
> > what you're doing here) isn't a "lie" the way he's referring to it?
> > It's in plain black and white.
> 
> Sure it is.  You assuming a certain set of semantic connotations for the
> To: and Cc: headers and then inferentially assume that everybody else
> operates on the same understanding of those headers.  The problem is
> that its just not true.  Your assumptions are neither universal or
> necessarily shared.

  Thinking that the address in the To: field is an address that the
sender originally targeted directly may not be universal, but I think
it's pretty close.  *shrug*

> > Well, OK then, how would you differentiate this new behaviour from a
> > hypothetical message I might have sent pre-upgrade that _did_ have
> > your address in the To: and the list in the CC:?  
> 
> One has a List-ID header, one doesn't.  
> 
> One has an In-Reply-To that references my prior post, one doesn't.

  You're right about this, I hadn't fully thought things out before I
said that.  However, it doesn't solve the problem of not knowing whether
one of these list postings is the first of two duplicates, or just a
normal posting.  Someone just posted something about the In-Reply-To:
header that may or may not refute that part, but it's moot because your
point stands on the List-ID: header alone.

> > (Of course, I acknowledge that sending a copy directly to a person who
> > is already subscribed to the list is a bit silly/redundant, but I
> > don't see that that dilutes the point at all.  In five seconds I can
> > think of a case where this would happen...I see a mail off the list, I
> > don't know someone is subscribed, so I send them my followup but also
> > CC the list because I think it pertains there also.  With this new
> > function, you've just erased anybody's ability to tell the difference
> > between those two situations.)  
> 
> Ignoring the aspects of etiquette in quoting a private email in a public
> forum, this is also not a problem for the same reasons as above. 

  True, and I take that statement back for the same reasons as above.
:p  And, of course, I was not encouraging people to post private emails
on-list, which is a MASSIVE etiquette breach...I was just trying to
point out a situation in which "information loss" would happen.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John Buttery
                                     (Web page temporarily unavailable)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/d0babbf0/attachment.pgp 

From john at io.com  Thu Oct 31 17:49:15 2002
From: john at io.com (John Buttery)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:49:15 -0600
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3)
In-Reply-To: <3052CE65-EB7A-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
References: <20021029193513.653CB13530C@maia.ccs.neu.edu>
	<3052CE65-EB7A-11D6-A331-0003934516A8@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <20021031164915.GC12156@io.com>

* Chuq Von Rospach <chuqui at plaidworks.com> [2002-10-29 12:08:28 -0800]:
> Now we start getting into heavy philosophical issues about all this. 
> Which means there are likely no "right" answers in an objective sense. 
> I say that up front, just in case. I want folks to know I'm not arguing 
> "I'm right", but "this is how I think it ought to be". Maybe a minor 
> semantical shift, but a key one, IMHO.

  I told you it was philosophical!  :p

> then why don't you care what the person put in the subject line? 
> addresses are -- addresses. The subject line is the author's own 
> thought on the piece of email. But it's okay to play with that, but not 
> standardize the look of the addresses? To/cc/bcc is really an 
> artificial construct in the email world, anyway, a hangover from the 
> paper days. The subject line is the author's knock on your front door.

  I think his point is that the specific type of Subject:-munging
happening here doesn't destroy information; the entire original subject
is there for perusal, it's just been moved over 15 characters or so.  An
enterprising procmail user could surgically remove it and restore the
message to its original state.  However, with the To/CC modifications,
you're making changes that are impossible to back out.  Someone put it a
lot better than I did, a few messages back, when they said (paraphrasing
here) "those headers aren't standard, and that's the point...they're put
there in a particular way by the sender of the message, and I want to
know what that way was when I get it, because there is a form of content
[albeit meta-content :p -- Ed.] in them".  Putting it that way really
rang true for me, because that's IT...even if the user (who sends the
mail) _does_ do something that hoses up my filters, then that's what I
want to know...not have the MLM correct it for me.

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
 John Buttery
                                     (Web page temporarily unavailable)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 196 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/c0c64555/attachment.pgp 

From greg at solution-link.com  Thu Oct 31 18:24:39 2002
From: greg at solution-link.com (greg at solution-link.com)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:24:39 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] from log files
Message-ID: <007701c28102$657cf180$0301a8c0@solutionlink.com.solutionlink.com>

Hello
    I have a question about a process running I am having this one process running over and over and I'm not sure if it is a sign of something gone wrong or if its normal can someone advise me if  it is a problem and what the fix is or if I should disregard. copy of message in logs
>>>>>>>.
Oct 31 11:22:00 mail CROND[7188]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
Oct 31 11:22:59 mail CROND[7208]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
Oct 31 11:23:00 mail CROND[7210]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)

Greg Makuch
Whatever Computes Ltd.
http://www.whatevercomputes.com
greg at whatevercomputes.com
phone: 306-569-4174
Toll-free: 1-877-291-3269
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/ec206c2c/attachment.htm 

From jsingh at fdu.edu  Thu Oct 31 18:32:33 2002
From: jsingh at fdu.edu (jsingh)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:32:33 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help
In-Reply-To: <003e01c280f9$b888cba0$410bee84@FDUJACK>
Message-ID: <009101c28103$7f23c1d0$410bee84@FDUJACK>

Hey Guys
I went back to the documentation, and went a step ahead. Now when I send
a  message to the mailing list it tells me I have the wrong gid for
mailman. I reconfigured it , but to no avail.
Any suggestions
thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+jsingh=fdu.edu at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+jsingh=fdu.edu at python.org] On Behalf Of
jsingh
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:22 AM
To: Bloody Novice
Cc: Mailman mailing list management users
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help

Hey Guys

            I am a newbie doing this mailman install. So far I have
installed everything fine, I am able to view almost everything over the
web(leaving the archives).

I created a new mailing list, and mailman sent out a message to all the
subscribers I enrolled. But when I send a message to the mailing list I
got this in my 

Mail log 

"Oct 30 18:58:18 dragon sendmail[1508]: g9UNwImp001508:
<mytestlist at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "

So I sent an email back to the admin and I got the same thing back  

"Oct 30 19:02:53 dragon sendmail[5302]: g9V02rmp005302:
<mytestlist-admin at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "

Could anyone possibly tell me where I am staggering from my path. Please
I need help on this, anyone who does , my thanks to them before hand.

 

 

Newbie --


------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

This message was sent to: jsingh at fdu.edu
Unsubscribe or change your options at
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/jsingh%40fdu.edu



From aeverett at webintl.com  Thu Oct 31 18:34:08 2002
From: aeverett at webintl.com (Albert Everett)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:34:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman cron strangeness
In-Reply-To: <1C7F2338-ECEE-11D6-97E1-00039345F4BA@webintl.com>
Message-ID: <F5B1FB9C-ECF6-11D6-B75E-00039345F4BA@webintl.com>

Added note:

Moved /var/cron/tabs/mailman to /var/cron/tabs/root and qrunner works 
properly.

So, there's something keeping cron from doing the right thing as mailman.

Running the cron file as root works well enough, but I'd like to have 
things work normally without the workaround.

Albert

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 10:30  AM, Albert Everett wrote:

> A few days ago I installed FreeBSD 4.7 on a server after backing up 
> /usr/local/mailman to an iBook running OSX.
>
> After rebooting the server, I installed Mailman 2.0.13 from the ports 
> collection. After the Mailman installation, I copied the lists and 
> archives back into /usr/local/mailman on the server from the iBook and 
> ran check_perms and check_db. After that, I adjusted list and archives 
> perms manually, using a working Mailman installation (another FreeBSD 
> machine) as an example.
>
> The web interface to the lists is doing fine. Sendmail config is fine.
>
> PROBLEM: Delivery to the Mailman lists works fine, but posted messages 
> aren't blown out to list members.
>
> Troubleshooting so far:
> -- mailman user and group in place
> -- perms inside /usr/local/mailman/cron are same as on another working 
> Mailman machine, same for /var/cron/tabs/mailman
> -- python executable by everyone
> -- perms on scripts in /usr/local/mailman/cron are 644, owned by 
> root:mailman
> -- /var/cron/tabs/mailman is in place and is the same as 
> /usr/local/mailman/cron/crontab.in
> -- /var/log/cron shows qrunner being run every minute, but 
> /var/log/maillog not showing any delivery to list members
> -- qrunner works when I run  'python -S qrunnner' manually as root, 
> afterward /var/log/maillog shows successful delivery to list members
>
> I'm out of ideas. Anyone out there have a clue?
>
> Albert
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-
> users%40python.org/
>
> This message was sent to: aeverett at webintl.com
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-
> users/aeverett%40webintl.com



From aeverett at webintl.com  Thu Oct 31 18:36:54 2002
From: aeverett at webintl.com (Albert Everett)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 11:36:54 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] from log files
In-Reply-To: <007701c28102$657cf180$0301a8c0@solutionlink.com.solutionlink.com>
Message-ID: <588DBE6E-ECF7-11D6-B75E-00039345F4BA@webintl.com>

It's doing exactly what it should. Qrunnner is the script that blows 
posts out to list members. It should run every minute. Ironically, this 
is what I'm trying to get my system to do correctly.

Albert

On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 11:24  AM, greg at solution-link.com 
wrote:

> Hello
> ??? I have a question about a process running I am having this one 
> process running over and over and I'm not sure if it is a sign of 
> something gone wrong or if its normal can someone advise me if it is a 
> problem and what the fix is or if I should disregard. copy of message 
> in logs
> >>>>>>>.
> Oct 31 11:22:00 mail CROND[7188]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
> /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
> Oct 31 11:22:59 mail CROND[7208]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
> /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
> Oct 31 11:23:00 mail CROND[7210]: (mailman) CMD (/usr/bin/python -S 
> /home/mailman/cron/qrunner)
> ?
> Greg Makuch
> Whatever Computes Ltd.
> http://www.whatevercomputes.com
> greg at whatevercomputes.com
> phone: 306-569-4174
> Toll-free: 1-877-291-3269
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: text/enriched
Size: 1473 bytes
Desc: not available
Url : http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/b3db4a0b/attachment.bin 

From R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk  Thu Oct 31 18:51:11 2002
From: R.Barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 17:51:11 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help
In-Reply-To: <003e01c280f9$b888cba0$410bee84@FDUJACK>
References: <mailman.66.1036078243.27838.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.0.20021031174726.036222a8@pop.ftel.co.uk>

At 16:22 31/10/2002, jsingh wrote:
>Hey Guys
>
>             I am a newbie doing this mailman install. So far I have
>installed everything fine, I am able to view almost everything over the
>web(leaving the archives).
>
>I created a new mailing list, and mailman sent out a message to all the
>subscribers I enrolled. But when I send a message to the mailing list I
>got this in my
>
>Mail log
>
>"Oct 30 18:58:18 dragon sendmail[1508]: g9UNwImp001508:
><mytestlist at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
>
>So I sent an email back to the admin and I got the same thing back
>
>"Oct 30 19:02:53 dragon sendmail[5302]: g9V02rmp005302:
><mytestlist-admin at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
>
>Could anyone possibly tell me where I am staggering from my path. Please
>I need help on this, anyone who does , my thanks to them before hand.
>
>

Have you told your MTA about the list's mail aliases? If not then take a 
look at the results of this search 
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=aliases&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

>
>
>Newbie --



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 21:03:09 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:03:09 -0800
Subject: OFFTOPIC Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive URL in postings (2.1b3) 
In-Reply-To: Message from Nigel Metheringham
	<Nigel.Metheringham@dev.InTechnology.co.uk> 
	<1036061081.11669.4.camel@gaspode.localnet> 
References: <20021029105217.V669-100000@phred.org>
	<1035970398.6516.16.camel@gaspode.localnet> <14398.1036059118@kanga.nu>
	<1036061081.11669.4.camel@gaspode.localnet> 
Message-ID: <22570.1036094589@kanga.nu>

On 31 Oct 2002 10:44:40 +0000 
Nigel Metheringham <Nigel.Metheringham at dev.InTechnology.co.uk> wrote:
> On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 10:11, J C Lawrence wrote:

> True - the discussion has become a mixture of what Mailman should be
> able to do, along with how Mailman should be running this list.... 

<nod>

> and to a large degree my To comments are in relation to this list with
> the obvious requirement that it must be possible to run Mailman
> without playing games with the To header :-)

+1

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Oct 31 21:03:59 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:03:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions problem in Debian 
In-Reply-To: Message from Odhiambo Washington <wash@wananchi.com> 
	<20021031105409.GM84992@ns2.wananchi.com> 
References: <20021030174901.GB98803@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<20021030181015.GK12493@marchiori.net>
	<20021031105409.GM84992@ns2.wananchi.com> 
Message-ID: <22587.1036094639@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:54:09 +0300 
Odhiambo Washington <wash at wananchi.com> wrote:

> Ok. So on Debian, what are the following values?

> mailman userid mailman groupid

list.list for /testing.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.



From jeremyp at pobox.com  Thu Oct 31 22:07:26 2002
From: jeremyp at pobox.com (Jeremy Portzer)
Date: 31 Oct 2002 16:07:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help
In-Reply-To: <003e01c280f9$b888cba0$410bee84@FDUJACK>
References: <003e01c280f9$b888cba0$410bee84@FDUJACK>
Message-ID: <1036098447.27574.48.camel@jeremy.dtcc.cc.nc.us>

On Thu, 2002-10-31 at 11:22, jsingh wrote:
> Hey Guys
> 
>             I am a newbie doing this mailman install. So far I have
> installed everything fine, I am able to view almost everything over the
> web(leaving the archives).
> 
> I created a new mailing list, and mailman sent out a message to all the
> subscribers I enrolled. But when I send a message to the mailing list I
> got this in my 
> 
> Mail log 
> 
> "Oct 30 18:58:18 dragon sendmail[1508]: g9UNwImp001508:
> <mytestlist at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
> 
> So I sent an email back to the admin and I got the same thing back  
> 
> "Oct 30 19:02:53 dragon sendmail[5302]: g9V02rmp005302:
> <mytestlist-admin at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
> 
> Could anyone possibly tell me where I am staggering from my path. Please
> I need help on this, anyone who does , my thanks to them before hand.

Sounds like you forgot to add the aliases to your /etc/aliases file (or
wherever your aliases are stored).  Or maybe you forgot to run
"newaliases" after adding the aliases.

This is covered pretty clearly in the documentation -- did you read it?
( http://www.list.org/install-test.html for example)

--Jeremy



From lloyd915 at webtv.net  Wed Oct 30 22:04:19 2002
From: lloyd915 at webtv.net (Lloyd Baker)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 15:04:19 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] adding a name on the mail list
Message-ID: <13640-3DC04953-964@storefull-2115.public.lawson.webtv.net>

I can not find the add button to add a name on the mail list. Thank you.



From relinger at netaktiv.com  Thu Oct 31 12:31:03 2002
From: relinger at netaktiv.com (Jerome Relinger)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 12:31:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman in French ?
Message-ID: <200210311231.03738.relinger@netaktiv.com>

Hi there,

Would you have any information on 
translating mailman in French ?

That would help down here ;-)

Best,
------------------
J?r?me Relinger


From rafaelthiesen at bol.com.br  Wed Oct 30 17:03:14 2002
From: rafaelthiesen at bol.com.br (Rafael Thiesen)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 14:03:14 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail Delivery message
Message-ID: <008101c2802e$17369820$e81bfea9@thiesen>

Anyone know if its possible and, if so, how i could receive the "mail delivery problem" messages to -admin@ in daily mails, instead of one message for any problem mail of my list?

R.Thiesen
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021030/0b75d387/attachment.htm 

From root at aristotle.mcas.k12.in.us  Wed Oct 30 10:52:11 2002
From: root at aristotle.mcas.k12.in.us (root)
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 04:52:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] technical help
Message-ID: <200210300952.EAA03886@aristotle.mcas.k12.in.us>

I need help with you mailman list server. When i email a post i get permission denied. I need some helpful tips or some kind of insight into what i need to be doing. The alias i am emailing to is /home/mailman/mail/wrapper post test. Test being the list. Which GID am i suppose to have for the mail. I tried 51 and i tried the group mail's(12) GID, but neither of them will let me run ./configure --with-mail-gid ##. Please help.

Thank you

Peter Charpentier
Michigan City Area Schools



From antonin at forpro-creteil.org  Thu Oct 31 06:45:06 2002
From: antonin at forpro-creteil.org (Antonin Hily)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 06:45:06 +0100 (CET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pb with postfix... HELP !!!!!
Message-ID: <b77623712cca08fb65984b67300848e93dc0c47b@>

Hi !

i'm french user of mailman...
my config :
Woody + postfix + mailman 2.0.11
when i create new list, i can't send mail to...
*******
This is the Postfix program at host XXXXX.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

                        The Postfix program

<service-info at XXXXXX>: unknown user: "service-info"



i don't understand why...
did i create a user and put an alias in /etc/aliases ?????
argh....

thanks a lot

antonin



____________________
Antonin Hily
DAFCO Cr?teil





From jsingh at fdu.edu  Thu Oct 31 16:17:11 2002
From: jsingh at fdu.edu (jsingh)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 10:17:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Help out
Message-ID: <001c01c280f0$95f82850$410bee84@FDUJACK>

Hey Guys
            I am a newbie doing this mailman install. So far I have
installed everything fine, I am able to view almost everything over the
web(leaving the archives).
I created a new mailing list, and mailman sent out a message to all the
subscribers I enrolled. But when I send a message to the mailing list I
got this in my 
Mail log 
"Oct 30 18:58:18 dragon sendmail[1508]: g9UNwImp001508:
<mytestlist at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
So I sent an email back to the admin and I got the same thing back  
"Oct 30 19:02:53 dragon sendmail[5302]: g9V02rmp005302:
<mytestlist-admin at dragon.fdu.edu>... User unknown "
Could anyone possibly tell me where I am staggering from my path. Please
I need help on this, anyone who does , my thanks to them before hand.
 
 
Newbie --
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/attachments/20021031/ddcbc55d/attachment.html