[Mailman-Users] Re: Flat Threads when posting usingOutlook/Exchange clients

Jon Carnes jonc at nc.rr.com
Tue Jul 1 03:20:51 CEST 2003

To allow a Mail-client to Thread email, it puts a special header line in
the email. When a similar Mail-client responds, it recognizes the
special header and maintains that special header in any response.
Sometimes a Mail-client adds it's own header that specifically says: In
response to Message-xxxxx.

The problem is that different Mail-clients use different headers for
determining if a mail is a response or not. Eudora is very robust in
handling various different "standards", and often can thread mail fairly
well.  On the other hand, Outlook is fairly poor and doesn't even
recognize other MS threading "standards" - or for that matter the
threading "standards" of other versions of Outlook.

Outlook also wipes out any identifying header information when it
creates the header for a responding message.

I hope that explains why most Admins treat threading email in Outlook as
a joke.

I'm not aware of a IEEE standard's RFC that covers the threading of
email.  I'm sure there is one, but the major makers of email clients
seem to be ignoring it.

Jon Carnes

On Mon, 2003-06-30 at 20:36, jsmith wrote:
> I have posted over and over that this issue is not just Outlook or MS
> related.  I have the same issue with headers and footers regardless of
> what email client is used.  I have 2.1.2 on a freebsd 4.7 machine with
> sendmail.  My mac users send to the list, Eudora users, outlook and all
> I have tried.  Same problem.
> I am not saying its not more prevalent in outlook.  But it is happening
> with other programs.  And I know everyone will be quick to say, don't
> use sendmail, or you must have installed it wrong.  
> I have posted the problem here before and no one has responded with
> anything close to a resolution.  I was told by someone that it was being
> address in the next version.  So I am waiting.
> There doesn't seem to be nothing else I can do.
> As far as the statement to use a MUA that doesn't suck.  You need to
> crawl out of the 18th century.  MS has had the mail client world tied up
> for a long time, and gains more everyday.  I personally don't like
> Outlook in a pop3 environment.  But in an exchange environment protected
> by a proper firewall there is only a few that compare for collaboration
> and global use.  But then again, I come from an environment that has
> servers all over the world synchronizing the GAL and shared objects
> every night.  Not too many other options for global address books.
> There are some.  But not many.
> My little 2 cents
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Will Yardley [mailto:william+mm at hq.newdream.net] 
> Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 4:53 PM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Flat Threads when posting
> usingOutlook/Exchange clients
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2003 at 03:56:59PM -0700, Roy Santos wrote:
> > I have seen a few postings regarding problems getting
> > flat threads while posting using Outlook clients. See
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users@python.org/msg03011.html.
> > But what I haven't seen is an answer on how or what
> > needs adjusting in MS for making proper threading that
> > Netscape, Eudora, Mozilla, etc.
> What needs adjusting? Using an MUA which doesn't suck.... I think some
> versions of Outlook do generate the proper headers, but I imagine it's
> based on version #, as opposed to being a configurable setting. The Mac
> version (which is much better behaved in general) does.
> > Is there a setting in the Defaults.py or other place to use "Subject"
> > instead of "In-Reply-To" or "References"?
> I'm pretty sure there isn't. A lot of MUAs can do this; it probably
> wouldn't be a bad idea, but could cause unexpected problems (like when
> people send messages to the list with generic subject lines).

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