[Mailman-Users] Umbrella/Parent Lists

Richard Barrett r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk
Fri May 9 19:01:03 CEST 2003

At 16:16 09/05/2003, Greg Harris wrote:

>Thanks for the replies.  It looks as though reg ex is not considered the
>best way to access memberships yet.  However, since a database is used
>for list memberships, it would seem to be the best long-term solution,
>if it can be developed.  I also wonder if I made it clear that I was
>trying to add all members of a child list and not specific members from
>a child list.  Each child list would be set up in such a way that they
>all had write access to the parent list or all of them could only read
>from the parent list, (an announcement list).  Does this change anyone's
>thinking, or are scripts still the best way to go?

Not mine, because the way standard Mailman code works, the 'umbrella' list 
does not "look down" into the membership list of a subordinate list, nor 
can a regex associated with the  the 'umbrella' list readily do so. 
Essentailly, the subordinate list's email address is nothing special  just 
that of another subscriber.

>Also, I would like to see your scripts Wesley, if possible.  It sounds
>like there is a great deal of potential available from your scripts.  I
>wonder if you could add a line or two to the add user script that would
>run the appropriate parent list rebuild.  This script would then of
>course call any other scripts that it needed to update.  You would, of
>course have to use a standard naming scheme, so that it could use a
>variable from the add user script.  This should allow for "instant"
>updates across the board.  I use instant loosely here, simply because
>you have to wait until the scripts finish running.
>Greg Harris
>On Thu, 2003-05-08 at 14:51, Wesley T. Perdue wrote:
> > Greg,
> >
> > I've recently implemented Mailman 2.1.2 for my office.  I'm completely
>happy with Mailman, with one exception: I'm surprised at the lack of
>support of nested lists.
> >
> > I too came across Jon Carnes' workaround shell script (thanks, Jon!);
>it didn't meet my needs as-is, but inspired me to write a more elaborate
>Perl script that comes closer.  I needed a solution that provided an
>arbitrary depth of list nesting; my Perl script supports that.  It uses
>rules written in text files (one file per parent list, which includes
>the component list names) to automatically build the parent lists from
>their component lists.
> >
> > For example, eng is the list of all engineers at my company; it is
>composed of three lists: the hardware engineers, the software engineers,
>and others that must monitor the eng list.  The hardware engineer list
>is itself composed of three different lists.
> >
> > My script lacks one feature I need: I'd like it to be driven by
>membership changes in the child lists, rather than cron-driven.  That
>is, when someone joins or leaves my software list, I'd like my eng list
>to be automatically updated.  I'm not a Python programmer (I'm barely a
>Perl programmer), so it may take me a while to figure out how to
>implement this feature.  Arbitrarily rebuilding all parent lists on a
>frequent basis is a waste of resources on my already busy server; plus,
>it introduces a time delay in the parent-list-updating.
> >
> > My script does not address your need for posting rules based on list
>membership; that seems to be a more involved change to Mailman's
>behavior, which will probably need to be written in Python.
> >
> > I have more basic posting rules needs; in general, I allow all list
>members to post to the list, and then use the regular expression rules
>to also allow posting from within our site, while denying posting from
>anyone off-site.
> >
> > If your lists are low-traffic or you have staff that can act as list
>moderator(s), a combination of regular expression rules and manually
>moderating the lists may be a useful way to restrict posts.  For
>example, you could allow initially moderated posts for list members,
>moderate posts from non-list but site members, and discard posts from
>non-site members.
> >
> > I hope you find this helpful.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Wes
> > ----------
> > Wes Perdue
> > IT Manager, Greenfield Networks
> >
> > At 09:07 AM 5/7/2003 -0500, Greg Harris wrote:
> > >After looking through the many articles on this topic, I am still not
> > >seeing a truly dynamic fix.  First, I am not very familiar with
> > >programming and this is the first time I have set up a mailing list,
> > >please be forgiving.
> > >
> > >I am mainly looking at how to allow all users from certain other
> > >lists, to post to a higher list.  Let me try to quickly explain.  I
> > >in a public school system, so I will use that example.  The High
> > >Principal would be in a list which would only include himself and the
> > >Assistant Principals, HS-Principals.  That list would be covered by a
> > >Principals list.  The Principals list would be a compilation of the
> > >different building principal lists and all principals would be able
> > >post to the Principals list.  However, HS-Principals would also be
> > >of HS-Staff.  HS-Staff would be an umbrella for the list English,
> > >Science, etc.  Only HS-Principals would be allowed to send to
> > >Hopefully by now, you can see that this is just using the
> > >structure for a creation of Umbrella/Parent lists that would
> > >the entire district.  Essentially, I want to put each user in only
> > >list, and then use those lists to determine who can write to what
> > >
> > >Although the initial setup will be huge, the long term management
> > >be much easier than trying to add each person to all the lists that
> > >would be a part of.
> > >
> > >Rather than using scripts and cron jobs to build lists, it would seem
> > >be a better use of resources to use regular expressions in the
> > >accept_these_nonmembers.  Unfortunately, I do not have the experience
> > >write these expressions.  Has anyone else tried this?  Am I
> > >off my rocker and about to watch it burn?
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >
> > >Greg Harris
> >
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Richard Barrett                                      http://www.openinfo.co.uk

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