From judypetersen at comcast.net  Mon Nov  1 00:07:13 2004
From: judypetersen at comcast.net (Judy Petersen)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:07:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is 2.0 the latest documentation?
In-Reply-To: <018201c4bf8a$a41be4a0$0200a8c0@Adrian>
Message-ID: <NGBBJNMJILLGJCEPBPJNGEJMFNAA.judypetersen@comcast.net>

I have GNU Mailman List Management Guide v 2.0 but the Mailman I'm using is
2.1.5. I've searched the net but can find nothing more recent. Is the 2.0
Guide the most recent available?

Judy Petersen
"Blessed are the young, for they will inherit the national debt." Herbert
Clark Hoover (1874-1964), 31st US President



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  1 00:21:52 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:21:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is 2.0 the latest documentation?
In-Reply-To: <NGBBJNMJILLGJCEPBPJNGEJMFNAA.judypetersen@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC17212004103115215205628f40f706@msapiro>

Judy Petersen wrote:

>I have GNU Mailman List Management Guide v 2.0 but the Mailman I'm using is
>2.1.5. I've searched the net but can find nothing more recent. Is the 2.0
>Guide the most recent available?

That's the most recent version of that document. There is some more
recent documentation. See http://www.list.org/docs.html

In particular, it notes:

 The University of Washington has some very nice documentation on their
 installation of Mailman. It may be specific to UW's set up at times,
 but you might find it useful as a general help guide too.

and links to http://www.washington.edu/computing/mailman/

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  1 01:03:29 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:03:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue
In-Reply-To: <018201c4bf8a$a41be4a0$0200a8c0@Adrian>
Message-ID: <PC172120041031160329079609b4cb59@msapiro>

Adrian Cooper wrote:
>
>Can Mailman be configured to use Sendmail to send and Exim to receive?

Default Mailman uses SMTPDirect.py to send. This in turn uses the
python smtplib to establish connection to SMTPHOST and SMTPPORT for
sending. The defaults for these in Defaults.py are 'localhost' and 0
respectively. Port 0 tells smtplib to use its default which presumably
is 25.

Thus if you set SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py to some value other than 0 or 25
which won't conflict with other ports and set up Sendmail on localhost
to listen on that port while leaving Exim as your incoming MTA on port
25, I think that would do it.

Or you could use Sendmail on a different host by setting SMTPHOST.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  1 01:35:30 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 16:35:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman adding extra  reply-to address
In-Reply-To: <000001c4bd11$fa7371e0$56d2c2d8@Jan>
Message-ID: <PC1721200410311635300546d6d7efa0@msapiro>

Fran Le Bouleix wrote:

>I have a problem with one of my lists:
>
>The list is set up to send replies to a Specific address:
>name at listname.com
>When the owner sends a message to the list, the reply-to headers are set
>to both
>the list address (listname at lists101.his.com) + the specific adress
>(name at listname.com) 
>
>I asked the owner to send a copy of the message she is sending to the
>list, and here is what we have:
>
>- headers of the message sent directly to us:
>
>User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:15:38 -0400
>Subject: Oprah/10 Rites/Virginia Update/Texas Campaign/Kentucky survey -
> 10/04
>From: List Name=?ISO-8859-1?B?riA=?=<name at listname.com>
>To: listname=?ISO-8859-1?B?riA=?=List <listname at lists101.his.com>
>CC: Heller <support at his.com>
>Message-ID: <BDA5DC9A.B4AB%name at listname.com>
>Mime-version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain;
>	charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
>
>- headers of the message received as a list member:
>
>User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.1.0.040913
>Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:15:38 -0400
>To: listname=?ISO-8859-1?B?riA=?=List <listname at lists101.his.com>
>Message-ID: <BDA5DC9A.B4AB%name at listname.com>
>Mime-version: 1.0
>Content-type: text/plain;
>	charset="ISO-8859-1"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by lists101.his.com
>id
>	i9S3Dkdv099476
>X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:20:19 -0400
>Cc: Heller <support at his.com>
>From: listname at lists101.his.com
>Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?=5Blistname=AE=5D_?= Oprah/10 Rites/Virginia
> Update/Texas Campaign/Kentucky survey - 10/04
>X-BeenThere: listname at lists101.his.com
>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.3
>Precedence: list
>Reply-To: name at listname.com, listname at lists101.his.com

<headers below Reply-To: snipped>
>
>And the list config says:
>
># legal values are:
>#    0 = "Poster"
>#    1 = "This list"
>#    2 = "Explicit address"
>reply_goes_to_list = 2
>
>reply_to_address = 'name at listname.com'
>
>
>Where does the second reply-to address comes from when the email is sent
>via Mailman????
>Any Mailman variable I should check?

What is the setting for first_strip_reply_to? This should be Yes (or
1). If it is set to No, the explicit reply to will be added to the
incoming Reply-To: instead of replacing it.

I know the message you received directly doesn't show a Reply-To:, but
th list message has an X-Mailman-Approved-At: header indicating it
went through an approval process. Maybe a Reply-To: got added there.

In any case, make sure that first_strip_reply_to is Yes, and if it
wasn't, I think that will fix the problem.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From james.chen at qut.edu.au  Mon Nov  1 01:44:50 2004
From: james.chen at qut.edu.au (James Chen)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 10:44:50 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Truncated long file name in attachment causes
	problem for Eudora
Message-ID: <200411010043.BXZ32999@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>

Hi All,

 

Recently we deployed mailman V2.1.5 for our university, however we are
experiencing some teething problems with attachment.

 

An attachment with space in the long file name (45+) will lose it's file
extension due to wrapping in the mailman has caused Eudora clients NOT able
to open the attachment properly while Outlook always looks for the last dot
in the long file name and pose no problem in this issue. Can anyone have
similar experience or solution please give us some help.  

 

James Chen  MSc. MCSE for 2000/NT CNA  MCE
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++  

Voice: 61-7-38649378

Mobile:61-405-175-817

Fax:61-7-3864 2921
Network Applications Team
Information and Technology Division 
The Queensland University of Technology      Brisbane, Australia

 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov  1 02:30:12 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 02:30:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Truncated long file name in
	attachment causes 	problem for Eudora
In-Reply-To: <200411010043.BXZ32999@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>
References: <200411010043.BXZ32999@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06002004bdab4076e49f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:44 AM +1000 2004-11-01, James Chen wrote:

>  An attachment with space in the long file name (45+) will lose it's file
>  extension due to wrapping in the mailman has caused Eudora clients NOT able
>  to open the attachment properly while Outlook always looks for the last dot
>  in the long file name and pose no problem in this issue. Can anyone have
>  similar experience or solution please give us some help.

	Mailman doesn't re-wrap messages.  If you're having problems with 
attachments, this seems more likely to be an issue with Eudora, not 
Mailman.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  1 04:17:16 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 19:17:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender details and anonymous list
In-Reply-To: <417E7FE8.3000704@jamkit.com>
Message-ID: <PC1721200410311917160508e851bf0c@msapiro>

Miles Waller wrote:
>
>I have set up an anonymous list - it's for announcements from a central 
>team to subscribers only, no discussions.
>
>It's all working great, exactly as required ... with one tiny problem.  
>The anonymous list correctly removes the details of who in the team sent 
>the message, and replaces it with the lists email address.  I have been 
>asked to set this so that it is a specific name, rather than the 
>address. I.e, in their mail clients, users will see:
>
>From: The company's biggest boss
>
>instead of
>
>From: announcements at example.com
>
>Having spent some time looking, I'm fairly sure this isn't possible in 
>mailman at the moment: the choices are either the mailing list, or the 
>original sender.  Can anyone confirm definitively?  I am using version 
>2.1.2.

You are correct. Those are the two choices unless you want to hack the
code in Cleanse.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  1 05:07:46 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 20:07:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] cannot send messages to the mailing lists
In-Reply-To: <004801c4bd1e$598c4510$6b0b010a@Fab>
Message-ID: <PC172120041031200746061798235c37@msapiro>

Fabian wrote:
>
>I am subscriped to an mailing list i created. I get the first
>authenciation email from my server, but I cant respond I get this error:
>
>      'fabiantest at humano2.org' am 28.10.2004 15:42
>            550 5.1.1 <fabiantest at humano2.com> User unknown; rejecting
>
>what should I do?

It looks like you don't have aliases properly set up in your MTA.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Articles 1.7 and 3.14

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  1 05:45:41 2004
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 13:45:41 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender details and anonymous list
In-Reply-To: <417E7FE8.3000704@jamkit.com> (Miles Waller's message of "Tue,
	26 Oct 2004 17:48:40 +0100")
References: <417E7FE8.3000704@jamkit.com>
Message-ID: <87u0saw51m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Miles" == Miles Waller <miles at jamkit.com> writes:

    Miles> The anonymous list correctly removes the details of who in
    Miles> the team sent the message, and replaces it with the lists
    Miles> email address.  I have been asked to set this so that it is
    Miles> a specific name, rather than the address. I.e, in their
    Miles> mail clients, users will see:

    Miles> From: The company's biggest boss

    Miles> instead of

    Miles> From: announcements at example.com

This is really a client-side (user) issue.  The From: header by
definition contains addresses.  It may also contain an identifying
string (ie, a "real name"), and comments.  If you set the list's
visible name to "The company's biggest boss", I would guess that
mailman would format the From: header as

From: "The company's biggest boss" <announcements at example.com>

and if it doesn't, it should be easy to hack Mailman to get it to do
so.  The address itself is _not_ optional in Internet mail, and the
"official" Mailman distribution will not support omitting it, I'm sure
(ie, I would bet a large sum of money against a rather small amount of
money -- it's not my decision to make).

Since most of the house-broken clients used on Windows and the Mac
support displaying only the "real name" or comment, just sneak into
the Biggest Boss's office and set his MUA to do that.  You'll hear no
more complaints.<wink>


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Mon Nov  1 06:43:43 2004
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 14:43:43 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <4182B1A5.7020305@bard.edu> (Stewart Dean's message of "Fri, 29
	Oct 2004 17:09:57 -0400")
References: <4182B1A5.7020305@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <87pt2yw2cw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Stewart" == Stewart Dean <sdean at bard.edu> writes:

    Stewart> <scraping sound of soapbox being pulled up>

    Stewart> I really, /really/ appreciate applications that build
    Stewart> into a single binary or a very few files, that can be
    Stewart> built on a (different) build and test host, then copied
    Stewart> over to the production when everything is thrashed out
    Stewart> and ripe...you know, like Pine and UoW IMAP.

Mailman solves a different kind of problem from Pine and IMAP.  IMAP
has no user interface; Pine doesn't need to worry about screwing up
anything but the user's own data if it screws up.  The MLM problem is
much less straightforward; it requires careful attention to security
issues, both against hostile entities like crackers and spammers, and
against benign but still dangerous activity (aka "fool-proofing").  In
order to deal with the inherent complexity, AFAIK most MLMs are
written in scripting languages like Python or Perl, and the rest (eg,
smartlist, which is distributed with procmail) are very inflexible,
require list manager == system administrator, and require separate
CGIs, invariably written in a scripting language, to provide the web
interface.

    Stewart> = there's prolly other things that don't come to mind
    Stewart> right now.

Microsoft Exchange sounds like it's just what you need.  It's only
your money and your freedom that are at stake.  ;-)

    Stewart> I guess I'm just hopelessly behind-the-times in not
    Stewart> wanting the installation fairy sprinkling files here and
    Stewart> there and generally making heavy local dependencies.

Not at all.  In fact, that's been a design goal and within the
constraints imposed by dealing with an MTA and multiple user
interfaces, it's been successful IMO.  Compared to earlier versions of
majordomo (I haven't dealt with anything but Mailman for about 4
years), Mailman has a well-defined structure which makes it easy to
find the things I need, and has very few local dependencies except for
Python and the MTA.  On the other hand, compared to smartlist it
allows me to delegate list configuration to the owners with little
worry, and makes user-specific configuration possible.

All the files are under one directory, except for the MTA
configuration and possibly the archives.  If your production system is
binary-compatible with your test system, you just tar up the whole
thing on the test side and untar on the production system.  You may
have to make any MTA changes by hand, although it's not hard to
configure some MTAs (sendmail comes to mind) to use multiple alias
files.

    Stewart> I Just Wanted A Mailing List Manager...

Actually, I suspect you define Mailing List Manager in a way that
doesn't apply to Mailman.  What "mailing list manager" means in this
context is "a set of user interfaces that allow list owners and users
to configure their lists and subscriptions without requiring effort on
the part of system administrators."  It's about allowing delegation of
responsibility without complicating your life, rather than about
simplifying your life per se.

If you're mostly setting up one-way announcement lists and the like,
you might be more interested in CRM (customer relations management)
software.  If you are looking for something that just manages
distribution lists and don't care about flexibility for list owners
and users, smartlist might be more up your alley.

    Stewart> Augustine's Law #405:
    Stewart> Anything that isn't in a design won't break

Murphy's Corollary to Augustine's Law #405: The users will
nevertheless complain that the feature is broken by its very absence.

So design the system that gives you exactly what you need, no more,
and no less, and put it out for bid.  Be it ever so humble, it won't
be cheap.<wink>

    Stewart> Or tell me how wonderful it is............

It would help if you described what your needs are rather than
complaining about aspects of Mailman that are designed-in in order to
meet the needs perceived by the designers.  It's quite possible that
you would be better served by a different package.

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From drjones at vii.com  Mon Nov  1 06:54:04 2004
From: drjones at vii.com (Dr. Jones)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 22:54:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change in servers
Message-ID: <4185CF7C.10703@vii.com>

I have a couple mail lists on my system, which worked with my prior ISP 
and server.

I have a different ISP now, and need to figure out how to switch them 
over to run on the new ISP.

How do I do this?

scott

-- 
Dr. Scott S. Jones
Hands-On Chiropractic 
IRC: irc.freenode.net #utah
Yahoo: sanchiro12




From Michael.Schmidt at imagine03.de  Mon Nov  1 10:39:13 2004
From: Michael.Schmidt at imagine03.de (Michael Schmidt)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 09:39:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20041101.edM.47869700@organizer.imagine03.de>

Hi,

i have some trouble to setup mailman on my server. My Server is from german
hoster Strato and is running with Suse Linux, Postfix and Apache. I have
installed the mailman software, and i can also setup the first maillist
"mailman". The only error i get is, when i want to use the web-interface. The
server returns an internal server error and the error-log said:

 Nov  1 10:06:21 2004] [error] [client 217.235.33.211] Premature end of script
headers: /srv/www/htdocs/web6/html/cgi-bin/create

I can't fix this problem. Can anybody help me, or have anybody experience with
configuration mailman on Strato Highend Server?

Thanks for helping tips!
Micha



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov  1 12:17:40 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:17:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender details and anonymous list
In-Reply-To: <87u0saw51m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <417E7FE8.3000704@jamkit.com>
	<87u0saw51m.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06002007bdabcadf5597@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:45 PM +0900 2004-11-01, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>       The address itself is _not_ optional in Internet mail, and the
>  "official" Mailman distribution will not support omitting it, I'm sure
>  (ie, I would bet a large sum of money against a rather small amount of
>  money -- it's not my decision to make).

	You are right.  The real e-mail address is not optional with 
Internet e-mail, and there is absolutely nothing that can be done 
about that.  If you want Internet e-mail, then you have to have a 
real e-mail address.  Otherwise, get something else.

>  Since most of the house-broken clients used on Windows and the Mac
>  support displaying only the "real name" or comment, just sneak into
>  the Biggest Boss's office and set his MUA to do that.  You'll hear no
>  more complaints.<wink>

	Clearly, this is a presentation issue.  Stephen has the right 
idea here that changing the boss's MUA so that it displays what he 
wants is the right way to solve this problem.

	Of course, then this leads to other issues, such as people who 
may set their e-mail address to one thing, but put something else in 
the comments.  For example, the e-mail address might be 
"miles at jamkit.com", but the comment might be "Biggest Boss".  Now, 
anyone can spoof e-mail coming from anyone, without changing their 
e-mail address, only their comments.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov  1 12:22:09 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:22:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] change in servers
In-Reply-To: <4185CF7C.10703@vii.com>
References: <4185CF7C.10703@vii.com>
Message-ID: <p06002008bdabcc8bb9c2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:54 PM -0700 2004-10-31, Dr. Jones wrote:

>  I have a different ISP now, and need to figure out how to switch them over
>  to run on the new ISP.
>
>  How do I do this?

	You haven't given us any useful information.  Please go to the 
Mailman FAQ Wizard at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and 
look at FAQs 1.22 and 1.23.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Nov  1 18:53:12 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 12:53:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about 2.1.5 Install
In-Reply-To: <200410310314.i9V3Edkp030400@web1.pcosupport.org>
References: <200410310314.i9V3Edkp030400@web1.pcosupport.org>
Message-ID: <1099331592.12501.54.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 23:08, Branden Simbeck wrote:
> I have a server using a chrooted environment for my various websites
> (running 3 websites). Specificly I am running an a red hat server with ensim
> basic. Are there any modiciations to Mailman 2.1.5, outside the regular
> configuration, to make it work in a chrooted environement.

Is a chroot jail worth it? Chroot jails can be compromised. Mailman does
not run in isolation, it has a heavy interaction with your MTA and your
web server, it also depends on cron. Both MTA and HTTP servers now reach
their tentacles into the overall system very far when trying to utilize
various authentication methods, LDAP, etc. Communication between these
various components is mostly done via sockets. All of this has to be
visible in the chroot, AND all changes outside the chroot have to be
reflected back into the chroot, its enormous. Even Wietse Venema the
author of postfix has cooled his earlier recommendation for chroot
environments. By all means go for it, just don't under estimate the task
and weigh the cost against the benefit. Eschewing chroot and instead
focusing on best practices, aggressive tracking of security updates, and
possible adoption of SELinux (verdict on SELinux is still out) is
probably a more realistic security approach than chroot isolation. Just
my opinion ...

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From adrian at cooper.net  Mon Nov  1 19:00:46 2004
From: adrian at cooper.net (Adrian Cooper)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:00:46 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue
References: <PC172120041031160329079609b4cb59@msapiro>
Message-ID: <01fa01c4c03c$b7789400$0200a8c0@Adrian>

Hi Mark,

> Thus if you set SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py to some value other than 0 or 25
> which won't conflict with other ports and set up Sendmail on localhost
> to listen on that port while leaving Exim as your incoming MTA on port
> 25, I think that would do it.

Sendmail, as used by apps like PHPBB for example, doesn't use port 25 to
relay the mail. Mail is injected directly into the Sendmail spool queue to
be sent directly. That is why I asked the question; if Mailman could be
configured to dump outgoing messages into the Sendmail spool, there would be
no port 25 conflict issues. Exim could still manage the other aspects.

Regards,

Adrian.




From adrian at cooper.net  Mon Nov  1 19:05:07 2004
From: adrian at cooper.net (Adrian Cooper)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 18:05:07 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue
References: <PC172120041031160329079609b4cb59@msapiro>
	<01fa01c4c03c$b7789400$0200a8c0@Adrian>
Message-ID: <020d01c4c03d$531416a0$0200a8c0@Adrian>

Hi,

>
> Sendmail, as used by apps like PHPBB for example, doesn't use port 25 to
> relay the mail. Mail is injected directly into the Sendmail spool queue to
> be sent directly. That is why I asked the question; if Mailman could be
> configured to dump outgoing messages into the Sendmail spool, there would
be
> no port 25 conflict issues. Exim could still manage the other aspects.

To followup up on that, it would be necessary to configure Mailman to send
to e.g.:

/usr/sbin/sendmail

instead of port 25.

Is this possible?

Best regards,

Adrian.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 02:36:12 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 17:36:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail stuck in Exim queue
In-Reply-To: <020d01c4c03d$531416a0$0200a8c0@Adrian>
Message-ID: <PC172120041101173612046812df7080@msapiro>

Adrian Cooper wrote:
>>
>> Sendmail, as used by apps like PHPBB for example, doesn't use port 25 to
>> relay the mail. Mail is injected directly into the Sendmail spool queue to
>> be sent directly. That is why I asked the question; if Mailman could be
>> configured to dump outgoing messages into the Sendmail spool, there would
>be
>> no port 25 conflict issues. Exim could still manage the other aspects.
>
>To followup up on that, it would be necessary to configure Mailman to send
>to e.g.:
>
>/usr/sbin/sendmail
>
>instead of port 25.
>
>Is this possible?

See the assignment to DELIVERY_MODULE and the comments that precede it
and the same for SENDMAIL_CMD in Defaults.py and be sure to read
everything in Sendmail.py as well.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Tue Nov  2 04:32:52 2004
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matthew England)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 21:32:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking up on state of Virtual Hosts feature
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041101212551.06ce9a38@mail.core.com>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5 on a system hosting many ("virtual") domains all 
with different Mailman-based list namespaces.  Before I haul off and create 
a Mailman installation for each domain (on my one server/host), and 
presumably creating a whole slew of redundant mailman processes 
(presumably??), I'd like to check on the state of the Virtual Host 
feature.  ie, have any patches come to fruition that would allow "true" 
virtual hosting as per below?  Are there any plans to add this 
functionality in the near future?

In an associated question, I presume that each different mailman 
installation (eg, /home/mailman.domain1.com, /home/mailman.domain2.com) 
will create separate control scripts (eg, /etc/init.d/mailman.domain1.com, 
/etc/init.d/mailman.domain2.com).  Is this all correct?

Virtual-Host reference:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp

Excerpt:

  With unmodified, standard Mailman source code, there is a single
  namespace for list names shared by all virtual host supported by a
  given Mailman installation. Multiple installations on the same machine
  can be used to avoid the list naming restrictions this creates.

-Matt



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Tue Nov  2 05:20:31 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:20:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking up on state of Virtual Hosts feature
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041101212551.06ce9a38@mail.core.com>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20041101212551.06ce9a38@mail.core.com>
Message-ID: <41870B0F.9020402@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&func=detail&aid=943827
There is no plan to include this in 2.1 stable branch. It may be in
mailman 3.0 or later.

Matthew England wrote:

> I'm using Mailman 2.1.5 on a system hosting many ("virtual") domains all 
> with different Mailman-based list namespaces.  Before I haul off and 
> create a Mailman installation for each domain (on my one server/host), 
> and presumably creating a whole slew of redundant mailman processes 
> (presumably??), I'd like to check on the state of the Virtual Host 
> feature.  ie, have any patches come to fruition that would allow "true" 
> virtual hosting as per below?  Are there any plans to add this 
> functionality in the near future?
> 
> In an associated question, I presume that each different mailman 
> installation (eg, /home/mailman.domain1.com, /home/mailman.domain2.com) 
> will create separate control scripts (eg, 
> /etc/init.d/mailman.domain1.com, /etc/init.d/mailman.domain2.com).  Is 
> this all correct?
> 
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From mengland at mengland.net  Tue Nov  2 13:57:01 2004
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matthew England)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 06:57:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Checking up on state of Virtual Hosts feature
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041102065614.06a16c70@mail.core.com>

At 11/1/2004 10:20 PM, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
>See
>http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&func=detail&aid=943827
>There is no plan to include this in 2.1 stable branch. It may be in
>mailman 3.0 or later.

Thanks for this info.  Seems like good news.

http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103&func=detail&aid=943827

Does anyone have the above patch working for Mailman 2.1.5 with significant 
testing and confidence?  On a Redhat 9 system (the one I'm using), 
perhaps?   The patch says it's running Mailman rev "2.1.1-5.1 Debian 
stable", something that I'm assuming is a source brance off of 2.1.1 
specifically for Debian systems.

Can anyone elaborate more on this version of Mailman and how it differs 
with respect to the 2 patched files (bin/newlist and Mailman/MailList.py)?

To quote the patch link:

"
We developped a reliable solution for running lists with the same name on 
different domains on the same Mailman installation.
I implemented that on top of the Mailman 2.1.1-5.1 Debian stable 
package.  All that is needed is to patch 2 files (bin/newlist,
Mailman/MailList.py) in the mailman install...
"

-Matt  



From Newcombe at mordor.clayton.edu  Tue Nov  2 14:28:16 2004
From: Newcombe at mordor.clayton.edu (Dan Newcombe)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:28:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping all moderation
In-Reply-To: <4181AF50.5020405@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0410282112300.23300@mordor.clayton.edu>
	<4181AF50.5020405@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411020821130.27997@mordor.clayton.edu>

On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> > However, I can find no way to reject those messages outright - they always
> > get sent for moderation and the poster gets a message saying it is being
> > considered.  I would prefer it got dropped and the poster told the message
> > was too big.
> How do you moderate those messages? If you are using older version of
> Mailman and put some in bounce_matching_headers, you should upgrade to
> 2.1.5 and use new header_filter_rules to reject or discard them.

I am on v2.1.5.  Right now the attachments are moderated by size.  I have
it set to 2M.  Anything below goes through - anything above gets put in
the moderate queue.  That is what I don't want.   I'd much rather anything
below 2M go through, anything above 2M gets dropped outright.

> Also, the next release will have ability to "scrub" the attachments in
> pipermail archive area. This was developed for use in message archiving

Not exactly the solution I'm looking for.    A little more broad than
wanted.

I guess what I'm really looking for is something similar to the
generic_nonmember_action tag which allows me to choose what happens when a
message breaks the rules.  In that case, I can tell it to reject the
message alltogether.     I guess a tag like message_toobig_action or
any_message_that_would_require_moderation_action - or similar
functionality.   Times like this knowing python might help I guess :)


From hala at orientplanet.com  Mon Nov  1 23:40:32 2004
From: hala at orientplanet.com (Hala Al haddad)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 14:40:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problems 
Message-ID: <012401c4c063$ce496bb0$0864a8c0@Hala>

Hi,
I am using mailman software which is available in my web server (livehost.net) and am facing some problems in the mailing lists I wonder if you can solve it for me :
first can I remove the from line from the msg which is sending to the list members because its coming now with full details (i.g: Test-bounces at orientplanet.info; on behalf of; List [orientp at orientplanet.info]) or if I can keep only the email am sending from in the from line.?

how many emails can be send by hour if I am having above 1000 contact in the mailing list ? and is this related to the webspace?

looking to hear from you 

thanks in advance 

Hala Al Haddad
PR Accounts Executive 
Orient Planet 
PR & Marketing Communications
PO Box 23345, Dubai UAE
Tel: +971 4 3988901
Fax: +971 4 3988941
Email: hala at orientplanet.ae
Website: www.orientplanet.com 


From fx619 at trend-dynamics.com  Mon Nov  1 14:57:45 2004
From: fx619 at trend-dynamics.com (Jesse Thompson)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 05:57:45 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How Do I stop the monthly reminder?
Message-ID: <200411155745.811512@jessidontcrash>

Every month a subscription reminder goes out? How do I stop that from occuring?

Jesse Thompson
122 Deer Trail Cir
Arroyo Grande, CA 93420
805-473-8296




From jeremy at laundrapak.com  Mon Nov  1 18:06:23 2004
From: jeremy at laundrapak.com (Jeremy Kestler)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 12:06:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exporting a list and deleting a list
Message-ID: <000001c4c035$1fbb8840$2002a8c0@sheffield>

can you please help me figure out how to export a list of names and
delete the list?
 
thanks,
jeremy
 
Jeremy B. Kestler
CEO
LaundraPak(tm), The Over-The-Door Laundry Backpack!
44 Des Moines Ct
Tinton Falls, NJ 07712
jeremy at laundrapak.com
www.laundrapak.com <http://www.laundrapak.com/> 
732-493-5141 Office
404-822-3805 Cell


From jjest at u.washington.edu  Tue Nov  2 05:05:35 2004
From: jjest at u.washington.edu (Jeremiah Jester)
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2004 20:05:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] automating user subscription
Message-ID: <4187078F.4080707@u.washington.edu>

I have a simple php webform that I would like users to fill out and have 
it automatically subscribe them to a particular mailman list on my 
server. The form needs to be seperate from the default mailman 
subscription page as I will need to have it have many other feilds as 
well as to output its contents into a mysql database. Is there a plain 
text config file that I can simply append an email address too every 
time the form is executed? If not, any other suggestions? Or maybe 
mailman has the capability to read its subscription list from a mysql 
database? I appreciate your help!

Thanks,
JJ


From hariagus at rimba.net  Mon Nov  1 16:21:50 2004
From: hariagus at rimba.net (Hariagus Rimba)
Date: Mon, 1 Nov 2004 22:21:50 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bugs
Message-ID: <006901c4c026$838358d0$226c9eca@Revival>

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5

We're sorry, we hit a bug!
If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! 

Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 123, in main
    ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc)
  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 164, in ChangeHTML
    fp = open(os.path.join(langdir, template_name), 'w')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/forum_gssja.org/en/listinfo.html'




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Python information:
      Variable Value 
      sys.version 2.2.2 (#1, Feb 24 2003, 19:13:11) [GCC 3.2.2 20030222 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.2-4)]  
      sys.executable /usr/bin/python2  
      sys.prefix /usr  
      sys.exec_prefix /usr  
      sys.path /usr  
      sys.platform linux2  




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Environment variables:
      Variable Value 
      HTTP_ACCEPT  image/gif, image/x-xbitmap, image/jpeg, image/pjpeg, application/vnd.ms-excel, application/vnd.ms-powerpoint, application/msword, application/x-shockwave-flash, */*  
      CONTENT_TYPE  application/x-www-form-urlencoded  
      HTTP_REFERER  http://mail.gssja.org/mailman/edithtml/forum_gssja.org/listinfo.html  
      SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache/1.3.31 (Unix) mod_jk/1.2.5 mod_gzip/1.3.26.1a mod_auth_passthrough/1.8 mod_log_bytes/1.2 mod_bwlimited/1.4 PHP/4.3.9 FrontPage/5.0.2.2634a mod_ssl/2.8.20 OpenSSL/0.9.7a  
      REDIRECT_STATUS  200  
      SCRIPT_FILENAME  /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/cgi-bin/edithtml  
      SERVER_ADMIN  root at austin.servershost.net  
      SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/edithtml  
      SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache/1.3.31 Server at austin.servershost.net Port 80 
      REQUEST_METHOD  POST  
      HTTP_HOST  mail.gssja.org  
      PATH_INFO  /forum_gssja.org/listinfo.html  
      REDIRECT_URL  /mailman/edithtml/forum_gssja.org/listinfo.html  
      SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1  
      QUERY_STRING   
      HTTP_CACHE_CONTROL  no-cache  
      REQUEST_URI  /mailman/edithtml/forum_gssja.org/listinfo.html  
      CONTENT_LENGTH  11261  
      HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1; .NET CLR 1.1.4322)  
      HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive  
      HTTP_COOKIE  forum_gssja.org+admin=28020000006970538641732800000031396435373736323538373464636431316663653636663265613833343837316564626362653763; lang=indonesian  
      SERVER_NAME  austin.servershost.net  
      REMOTE_ADDR  202.158.108.235  
      REMOTE_PORT  1944  
      HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  en-us  
      PYTHONPATH  /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman  
      PATH_TRANSLATED  /usr/local/apache/htdocs/forum_gssja.org/listinfo.html  
      SERVER_PORT  80  
      GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1  
      HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate  
      SERVER_ADDR  205.234.132.6  
      DOCUMENT_ROOT  /usr/local/apache/htdocs  



From madduck at madduck.net  Tue Nov  2 17:18:27 2004
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:18:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update: LDAP Membership Adaptor V3.0
In-Reply-To: <E84D32316C63B54D80F864E4B9EA0696030CD547@ECOWV03M.Telewest.Internal>
References: <E84D32316C63B54D80F864E4B9EA0696030CD547@ECOWV03M.Telewest.Internal>
Message-ID: <20041102161827.GA26273@cirrus.madduck.net>

also sprach martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk <martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk> [2004.10.30.1506 +0200]:
> Most of the code here is his, I've modified it to use group
> membership to populate the lists.

Define populate, please? Is this a one-time import feature, or is
the directory server contacted in real-time?

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
unix, because rebooting is for adding new hardware.
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From jdennis at redhat.com  Tue Nov  2 17:37:45 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 11:37:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Adding list
In-Reply-To: <1099160852.4611.29.camel@securelinux>
References: <1099160852.4611.29.camel@securelinux>
Message-ID: <1099413465.12501.132.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 14:27, Bernie Johnson wrote:
> I am running RH ES 3 and installed the mailman rpm.  Every time I try to
> create a list it give me this error:
> 
> Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists
> 
> Can some one please give me a hand.
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Tech

What user are you trying to do this as? Is it mailman? Permissions are
granted on a group basis with the group mailman as the group having
permission on the mailman files. When the rpm is installed the user
mailman is created and group mailman is created, both uid and gid should
be 41. By default the only member of the mailman group is the user
mailman. Unless you're executing as a member of the mailman group you're
going to have permission problems.

For security reasons, even though the user mailman is created by the rpm
installation the mailman user is not assigned a password and the mailman
login shell is set to "nologin" preventing logging on as the user
mailman. This done because the act of installing the mailman rpm should
not grant login privileges just because the package was installed (many
admins and users install all packages without ever intending to run
them, it would be a security hole for installation to open up accounts).

The root user will need to assign mailman a password and unlock the
mailman account by changing the login shell to something other than
"nologin". At that point the proper course of actions is to "su" to
mailman or login as mailman which will put you in the mailman directory
where you will find the bin subdirectory with the command line
utilities.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 17:54:37 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 08:54:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping all moderation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0411020821130.27997@mordor.clayton.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110208543700468ab9d6f3@msapiro>

Dan Newcombe wrote:
>
>I am on v2.1.5.  Right now the attachments are moderated by size.  I have
>it set to 2M.  Anything below goes through - anything above gets put in
>the moderate queue.  That is what I don't want.   I'd much rather anything
>below 2M go through, anything above 2M gets dropped outright.

<snip>
 
>I guess what I'm really looking for is something similar to the
>generic_nonmember_action tag which allows me to choose what happens when a
>message breaks the rules.  In that case, I can tell it to reject the
>message alltogether.     I guess a tag like message_toobig_action or
>any_message_that_would_require_moderation_action - or similar
>functionality.   Times like this knowing python might help I guess :)

The only controls are generic_nonmember_action for posts from
non-members and member_moderation_action for posts from moderated
members.

The setting you're looking for doesn't currently exist. I agree that it
would be good to be able to specify the disposition of "too big"
messages and also to specify the disposition of messages caught in the
Privacy options...->Recipient filters, but this ability doesn't
currently exist. Messages caught in any of these filters are always
held for "moderator" approval.

See the wishlist at http://www.list.org/todo.html and the SourceForge
Mailman feature request page at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?atid=350103&group_id=103&func=browse

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:07:32 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:07:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman problems 
In-Reply-To: <012401c4c063$ce496bb0$0864a8c0@Hala>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110209073202038ab9d78b@msapiro>

Hala Al haddad wrote:

>I am using mailman software which is available in my web server (livehost.net) and am facing some problems in the mailing lists I wonder if you can solve it for me :
>first can I remove the from line from the msg which is sending to the list members because its coming now with full details (i.g: Test-bounces at orientplanet.info; on behalf of; List [orientp at orientplanet.info]) or if I can keep only the email am sending from in the from line.?

It is the users MUA (MS outlook?) that is doing this, not Mailman.

See FAQ article 2.3.

>how many emails can be send by hour if I am having above 1000 contact in the mailing list ? and is this related to the webspace?

Search the FAQ wizard for performance, although in this case, the
question might more properly be addressed to livehost.net. Number of
e-mails per hour is not related to webspace per se, although it might
impact webspace required for archives.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:13:33 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:13:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How Do I stop the monthly reminder?
In-Reply-To: <200411155745.811512@jessidontcrash>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411020913330500c47724b5@msapiro>

Jesse Thompson wrote:

>Every month a subscription reminder goes out? How do I stop that from occuring?

List members can turn off their own reminders on their list options
page.

List administrators can turn off all reminders for the list on the
list's General Options page.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:23:41 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:23:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Password Reminder Bounces?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041030102935.042876f8@pop3.direcway.com>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110209234101258ab9d746@msapiro>

Speedy Gonzalis wrote:
>
>I am wondering what action if any is taken by Mailman v2.1.x when a password reminder bounces.  Is it tracked anywhere?  Will the bouncing address eventually be removed from the lists it is a member of?
>

Password reminders are sent from the "site" list, and most people they
are sent to aren't members of the site list, so the bounces if any are
probably ignored (I don't know this for sure) unless they are
unrecognized in which case they would be handled according to Bounce
Processing settings for the site list.

Presumably this is only an issue for people who have disabled all their
list e-mail since others would be picked up by normal list bounce
processing and eventually disabled and deleted assuming the list(s)
they are members of do bounce processing.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:34:50 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:34:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exporting a list and deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <000001c4c035$1fbb8840$2002a8c0@sheffield>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411020934500406177e6fe8@msapiro>

Jeremy Kestler wrote:

>can you please help me figure out how to export a list of names and
>delete the list?

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.9.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:40:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:40:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <200410281332.i9SDWmHV028160@ylpvm29.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411020940020250e765527c@msapiro>

steve wrote:
>
>I run pop3 servers on  the Mac OS X platform.  Does Mailman work with this
>OS?
>I do run Linux servers as well, but I am trying to find on your site, the
>spec?s , etc..



>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 1.21

Also http://www.list.org/ for general Mailman info.
--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:50:16 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:50:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (hopefully) quick question
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041028173019.028bf0a0@mail.waterwatch.org>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411020950160031c2f20b0f@msapiro>

Molly Kramer wrote:

>Hello, and thank you for Mailman.  I work for a non-profit and use Mailman 
>to manage our listserv for action alerts to members and others.  It's great.
>
>My question is: I would like to print out a list of all our listserv 
>members (their e-mail addresses).  Is there a way to do that?

The preferred way is bin/list_members, but if you don't host mailman on
your own server, you may not have access to that.

The e-mail "who" command works, but it doesn't show "hidden" members.

Jim Tittsler has a python script that can get the member list via the
web admin interface. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 18:54:40 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 09:54:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question --- quite urgente 
In-Reply-To: <000801c4bf41$93fc9540$5f1e5451@netcabo.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411020954400890c2f20e82@msapiro>

<paulinha at enne.online.pt> wrote:

>I started to use mailman for the first time but I have encountered a problem.
>
>Hotmail accounts do not receive my content sent by use of mailman. The hotmail account useres only receive the title and nothing else.
>
>Why does that happen?

You may find a clue in FAQ article 4.39.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 19:04:51 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:04:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bugs
In-Reply-To: <006901c4c026$838358d0$226c9eca@Revival>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411021004510828f6f2a7ef@msapiro>

Hariagus Rimba wrote:

>Bug in Mailman version 2.1.5
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks! 
>
>Traceback:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 123, in main
>    ChangeHTML(mlist, cgidata, template_name, doc)
>  File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/edithtml.py", line 164, in ChangeHTML
>    fp = open(os.path.join(langdir, template_name), 'w')
>IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/forum_gssja.org/en/listinfo.html'
>

You are trying to edit the listinfo template for the forum_gssja.org
list and something isn't set up to run with the user or group required
to create/write the list specific template.

This list probably can't help you further with cPanel issues. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rar at dragon.com  Tue Nov  2 19:41:14 2004
From: rar at dragon.com (Bob Rea)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 13:41:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Intro and first problem
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20041102133618.01ad0e00@pop.dragon.com>

Hi, I'm Bob and I work for an Internet provider that serves mailing lists. 
I was recently given the job of moving ezmlm lists to Mailman. I completed 
this.

Now a problem has arisen and I don't know what to do. I have looked at the 
configurations of several of these lists and can't find a way to solve it.

Mail that should come to (listname)-owner is coming to mailman-owner. He is 
unhappy with getting these messages. I and others should be getting them. 
How do we deal with this?


Bob Rea
Dragon Networks
770-458-1350



From adrian at cooper.net  Tue Nov  2 19:56:11 2004
From: adrian at cooper.net (Adrian Cooper)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 18:56:11 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsletyter  only config?
Message-ID: <043c01c4c10d$9faae810$0200a8c0@Adrian>

Hi,

Can Mailman be configured as newsletter broadcast only, i.e. where list
members cannot post to the list?

We have a requirement for a newsletter system where members can subsribe and
unsubscribe, view archives etc., but cannot post to the list. We only want
moderators to be able to post.

If that isn't possible, can it be set to require moderation for all posts to
the list so we can intercept members using the posting address?

Thanks very much.

Adrian.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 20:21:07 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:21:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Intro and first problem
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20041102133618.01ad0e00@pop.dragon.com>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110211210707348315cdc5@msapiro>

Bob Rea wrote:

>Hi, I'm Bob and I work for an Internet provider that serves mailing lists. 
>I was recently given the job of moving ezmlm lists to Mailman. I completed 
>this.
>
>Now a problem has arisen and I don't know what to do. I have looked at the 
>configurations of several of these lists and can't find a way to solve it.
>
>Mail that should come to (listname)-owner is coming to mailman-owner. He is 
>unhappy with getting these messages. I and others should be getting them. 
>How do we deal with this?

What specific mail is being misdirected? How is the mail addressed on
the To: header? Have you checked yor MTA aliases for the
(listname)-owner addresses?

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.022.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  2 20:23:32 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 11:23:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newsletyter  only config?
In-Reply-To: <043c01c4c10d$9faae810$0200a8c0@Adrian>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110211233200158315cb0f@msapiro>

Adrian Cooper wrote:
>
>Can Mailman be configured as newsletter broadcast only, i.e. where list
>members cannot post to the list?
>
>We have a requirement for a newsletter system where members can subsribe and
>unsubscribe, view archives etc., but cannot post to the list. We only want
>moderators to be able to post.
>
>If that isn't possible, can it be set to require moderation for all posts to
>the list so we can intercept members using the posting address?

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.11.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:26:08 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:26:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <200410281332.i9SDWmHV028160@ylpvm29.prodigy.net>
References: <200410281332.i9SDWmHV028160@ylpvm29.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <p06002024bdad9da8bd60@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:32 AM -0500 2004-10-28, steve wrote:

>  I run pop3 servers on  the Mac OS X platform.  Does Mailman work with this
>  OS?
>  I do run Linux servers as well, but I am trying to find on your site, the
>  spec's , etc..

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "MacOS X". 
Or see the index of all entries at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=index> and look for 
"MacOS X".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:26:53 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:26:53 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (hopefully) quick question
In-Reply-To: <6.1.0.6.1.20041028173019.028bf0a0@mail.waterwatch.org>
References: <6.1.0.6.1.20041028173019.028bf0a0@mail.waterwatch.org>
Message-ID: <p06002025bdad9e00d1e9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:31 PM -0700 2004-10-28, Molly Kramer wrote:

>  My question is: I would like to print out a list of all our listserv
>  members (their e-mail addresses).  Is there a way to do that?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:27:32 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:27:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update: LDAP Membership Adaptor V3.0
In-Reply-To: <E84D32316C63B54D80F864E4B9EA0696030CD547@ECOWV03M.Telewest.Intern
	al>
References: <E84D32316C63B54D80F864E4B9EA0696030CD547@ECOWV03M.Telewest.Intern
	al>
Message-ID: <p06002026bdad9e1fd91e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:06 PM +0100 2004-10-30, <martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>  Erik Forsberg has developed an LDAP adaptor which populates list
>  membership based upon an attribute value held on the user entry.

	Can you put this into the Mailman FAQ Wizard?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:29:40 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:29:40 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error Adding list
In-Reply-To: <1099160852.4611.29.camel@securelinux>
References: <1099160852.4611.29.camel@securelinux>
Message-ID: <p06002027bdad9e5ee803@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:27 PM -0400 2004-10-30, Bernie Johnson wrote:

>  I am running RH ES 3 and installed the mailman rpm.  Every time I try to
>  create a list it give me this error:
>
>  Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing lists

	Looks like you may be logging in with the password of a list 
administrator, but not the Mailman site-wide password.  Only the 
latter will allow you to create new lists.

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.008.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:37:08 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:37:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question --- quite urgente
In-Reply-To: <000801c4bf41$93fc9540$5f1e5451@netcabo.pt>
References: <000801c4bf41$93fc9540$5f1e5451@netcabo.pt>
Message-ID: <p06002028bdad9fa133ae@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:03 PM +0000 2004-10-31, <paulinha at enne.online.pt> wrote:

>  Hotmail accounts do not receive my content sent by use of mailman. The
>  hotmail account useres only receive the title and nothing else.

	I imagine that the problem is your HTML messages are being 
mis-interpreted, perhaps because the messages are being modified as a 
result of header or footers being added by Mailman.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp> 
for one type of problem.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:37:58 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:37:58 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bugs
In-Reply-To: <006901c4c026$838358d0$226c9eca@Revival>
References: <006901c4c026$838358d0$226c9eca@Revival>
Message-ID: <p06002029bdada08c6aab@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:21 PM +0700 2004-11-01, Hariagus Rimba wrote:

>    File "/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  2 21:45:10 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 21:45:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] exporting a list and deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <000001c4c035$1fbb8840$2002a8c0@sheffield>
References: <000001c4c035$1fbb8840$2002a8c0@sheffield>
Message-ID: <p0600202abdada24dd3e5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:06 PM -0500 2004-11-01, Jeremy Kestler wrote:

>  can you please help me figure out how to export a list of names and
>  delete the list?

	See <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From htian at ias.edu  Tue Nov  2 22:13:54 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 16:13:54 -0500 
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of moderated members
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC0586647F@PICO>

Hi,

We can use list_members command to list the regular or nomail members. But I
want to know how many members are moderated (all members with moderate bit).
Does anyone know how do it?
Thanks for your help. Hong


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  3 00:02:52 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 15:02:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <20041101.edM.47869700@organizer.imagine03.de>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411021502520953ec3b0e0d@msapiro>

Michael Schmidt wrote:
>
>i have some trouble to setup mailman on my server. My Server is from german
>hoster Strato and is running with Suse Linux, Postfix and Apache. I have
>installed the mailman software, and i can also setup the first maillist
>"mailman". The only error i get is, when i want to use the web-interface. The
>server returns an internal server error and the error-log said:
>
> Nov  1 10:06:21 2004] [error] [client 217.235.33.211] Premature end of script
>headers: /srv/www/htdocs/web6/html/cgi-bin/create
>
>I can't fix this problem. Can anybody help me, or have anybody experience with
>configuration mailman on Strato Highend Server?

Have you read section 4 of the INSTALL document?

Do you have the appropriate

  ScriptAlias   /mailman/       $prefix/cgi-bin/

in your Apache configuration? ($prefix is the path to your mailman
installation).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ptatters at zerobyzero.ca  Wed Nov  3 01:05:02 2004
From: ptatters at zerobyzero.ca (Peter Tattersall)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:05:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <200410281332.i9SDWmHV028160@ylpvm29.prodigy.net>
References: <200410281332.i9SDWmHV028160@ylpvm29.prodigy.net>
Message-ID: <0272F946-2D2C-11D9-9502-0003931C4CFA@zerobyzero.ca>

On 28-Oct-04, at 9:32 AM, steve wrote:

> Hello
>
> I run pop3 servers on  the Mac OS X platform.  Does Mailman work with 
> this
> OS?
> I do run Linux servers as well, but I am trying to find on your site, 
> the
> spec?s , etc..
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve Campbell
> Wideloadgames.org

Are you running X-serve or an individual copy of Mac OS X? Mailman is 
installed on the x-serve systems, though I understand it's a pain to 
work with because Apple made some modifications to the source code. As 
for individual systems, I am running Mac OS X 10.3.6 with Postfix 
enabled (using the aptly named Postfix Enabler to turn everything on), 
along with anomy, spamassassin, and Mailman 2.1.5. Installation was 
basically a matter of downloading the package and following 
installation instructions. My lists are small, no more than 200 members 
on any one list, but the system handles everything smoothly and 
invisibly while I continue to work in the foreground. If you have a 
heavier load in mind you should prepare to dedicate a machine. The only 
annoying aspect of the whole setup is that I'm using mail.app to handle 
all my correspondence, and whenever I reply to a list I have to 
remember to switch things around to avoid top-posting.

Peter Tattersall
NYAA "List Mom"


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  3 02:04:36 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:04:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Where are my archives?
In-Reply-To: <2618.170.94.191.66.1098727429.squirrel@www.jfredball.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411021704360796ec3b0d60@msapiro>

Fred Ball wrote:

>I completely changed IP numbers for my domain.  Now I notice on the list administration
>General Options Section, the following series of links appears:
>
>     Other Administrative Activities
>
>     Tend to pending moderator requests:
>     http://machine.mydomain.com/mailman/admindb/listname
>
>     Go to the general list information page
>     http://machine.mydomain.com/mailman/listinfo/listname
>
>     Edit the public HTML pages
>     http://machine.mydomain.com/mailman/edithtml/listname
>
>     Go to list archives
>     http://adsl-65-67-80-177.dsl.ltrkar.swbell.net/pipermail/listname
>
>The first three work fine, but for some reason, the archives link doesn't use my domain
>name, but the ISP's name for my address. This pattern is true on this link for all
>lists.  Why doesn't it use my regular domain name??
>
>When I manually go to:
>
>     http://machine.mydomain.com/pipermail/listname
>
>I can see the archives for the list, but they stop when the IP change happened.  This is
>true for all lists in existence at the time of the change.  Lists begun since the
>switchover are working fine.
>
>Where do I tweak the setup to get my archives working again?

Since newly created lists work and only old lists don't, this might be
a problem that can be fixed with fix_url.py.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

See article 4.29 for more info.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  3 02:15:49 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 17:15:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0410270830480.7390@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411021715490562ec3b0c83@msapiro>

Sean wrote:
>
>A list user posts started being shunted with the following showing up in
>the error log:
>
>Oct 27 08:14:28 2004 (5860) SHUNTING:
>1098822989.626565+42a5b473e4384099ea19ea0a27cae64d4d65c0b2
>Oct 27 08:14:29 2004 (5860) Uncaught runner exception: unpack list of
>wrong size
>Oct 27 08:14:29 2004 (5860) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, in
>_dispose
>    more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, in
>_dopipeline
>    sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 91, in process
>    send_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 132, in
>send_digests
>    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 306, in send_
>    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 265, in process
>    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
>  File "/usr/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 359, in
>save_attachment
>    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
>  File "/usr/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 725, in
>get_filename
>    filename = self.get_param('filename', missing, 'content-disposition')
>  File "/usr/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 608, in get_param
>    for k, v in self._get_params_preserve(failobj, header):
>  File "/usr/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 555, in
>_get_params_preserve
>    params = Utils.decode_params(params)
>  File "/usr/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 337, in decode_params
>    charset, language, value = decode_rfc2231(EMPTYSTRING.join(value))
>  File "/usr/mailman/pythonlib/email/Utils.py", line 284, in
>decode_rfc2231
>    charset, language, s = parts
>ValueError: unpack list of wrong size
>
>I've search through the archives and found other posts regarding this
>error but no resolution was found.  They were from some time ago so I'm
>hoping someone may be able to provide some insight into this now.

Did you see the post at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-September/039410.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Nov  3 03:38:22 2004
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 2004 20:38:22 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman
In-Reply-To: <0272F946-2D2C-11D9-9502-0003931C4CFA@zerobyzero.ca>
Message-ID: <BDADA0BE.4346%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 11/2/04 6:05 PM, Peter Tattersall at ptatters at zerobyzero.ca wrote:

> Are you running X-serve or an individual copy of Mac OS X? Mailman is
> installed on the x-serve systems, though I understand it's a pain to
> work with because Apple made some modifications to the source code. As
> for individual systems, I am running Mac OS X 10.3.6 with Postfix
> enabled (using the aptly named Postfix Enabler to turn everything on),
> along with anomy, spamassassin, and Mailman 2.1.5.

If you're using client MacOS X 10.3.something (Panther), then as Peter
indicated, get Postfix running with Postfix Enabler and then see the note I
wrote on getting Mailman running on Panther (client)
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-September/039600.html>.
So long as you can follow directions, it is easy to get Mailman running on
MacOS X.

-- Larry Stone
   larry at stonejongleux.com
   http://www.stonejongleux.com/
   




From kpcasey at gmail.com  Wed Nov  3 04:17:41 2004
From: kpcasey at gmail.com (Keith Casey)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 22:17:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing Problem
Message-ID: <2f5adf504110219175f7ca31b@mail.gmail.com>

I just 'inhereted' a mailing list and I'm just trying to figure out my
way around.. yes.. a total n00b.

I spent an hour or so looking for a solution to a problem that many
people are expereincing on the list.

When they want to unsubscribe on the wed interface, one inputs their
e-mail address (it exists in the list) and when they press the
'Unsubscribe or Edit Options" button, they are sent to the 'subscribe'
page and it says this:

Subscription results
Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted
upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your
subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email,
or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you
will soon get a confirmation email which contains further
instructions.

Then an e-mail is generated stating that someone has tried subscribing
you to a list that you're already on.

It doesn't bring them to an edit or unsubscribe page when they press
the button after they put in their e-mail address.... which shouldn't
it be brining the user there?

We're using version 2.1.5.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov  3 04:52:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 19:52:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unsubscribing Problem
In-Reply-To: <2f5adf504110219175f7ca31b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411021952020046e46c1050@msapiro>

Keith Casey wrote:

>I just 'inhereted' a mailing list and I'm just trying to figure out my
>way around.. yes.. a total n00b.
>
>I spent an hour or so looking for a solution to a problem that many
>people are expereincing on the list.
>
>When they want to unsubscribe on the wed interface, one inputs their
>e-mail address (it exists in the list) and when they press the
>'Unsubscribe or Edit Options" button, they are sent to the 'subscribe'
>page and it says this:
>
>Subscription results
>Your subscription request has been received, and will soon be acted
>upon. Depending on the configuration of this mailing list, your
>subscription request may have to be first confirmed by you via email,
>or approved by the list moderator. If confirmation is required, you
>will soon get a confirmation email which contains further
>instructions.
>
>Then an e-mail is generated stating that someone has tried subscribing
>you to a list that you're already on.
>
>It doesn't bring them to an edit or unsubscribe page when they press
>the button after they put in their e-mail address.... which shouldn't
>it be brining the user there?
>
>We're using version 2.1.5.

Here's my guess.

Someone has edited the template for the listinfo page, probably using
the "Edit the public HTML pages"->"General list information page"
link, but possibly via shell access.

This edit attempted to rearrange the page and has resulted in the
"Unsubscribe or edit options" form being logically nested within the
"Subscribe" form. This is an easy mistake to make because the start
tag for the "Subscribe" form comes too early in the template.

Each form in the template begins with a tag of the form
<MM-Xxx-Form-Start> and ends with the tag <MM-Form-End>.

In the default template, the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start> tag comes way
too soon on the page, so attempts to rearrange things may move its
<MM-Form-End> tag after another form without moving the start tag or
move another form into the area between the <MM-Subscribe-Form-Start>
tag and its <MM-Form-End> tag.

The default English template (which should be unchanged is in
templates/en/listinfo.html. The one for your list is probably in
lists/list-name/en/listinfo.html.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sisira at apac.ko.com  Wed Nov  3 09:14:13 2004
From: sisira at apac.ko.com (Sisira Kumara)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:14:13 +0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sisira Kumara/LK/APAC/TCCC is out of the office.
Message-ID: <OFEADB5F54.ED4BCFD2-ON46256F41.002D3F42-46256F41.002D3F45@na.ko.com>





I will be out of the office starting  11/03/2004 and will not return until
11/05/2004.

I will respond to your message when I return.



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Wed Nov  3 14:12:49 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:12:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list of moderated members
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC0586647F@PICO>
References: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC0586647F@PICO>
Message-ID: <20041103131249.GA3827@server.onjapan.net>

On Tue, Nov 02, 2004 at 04:13:54PM -0500, Hong Jiang Tian wrote:
> We can use list_members command to list the regular or nomail members. But I
> want to know how many members are moderated (all members with moderate bit).

One way to do it is to use the bin/withlist tool.

Create a file called list_moderated.py in your ~mailman directory:
##### cut here
from Mailman import mm_cfg

def list_moderated(m):
    for member in m.getMembers():
        if m.getMemberOption(member, mm_cfg.Moderate):
            print member
##### cut here

Then to list the moderated members of 'mylist' give the command:
  bin/withlist -q -r list_moderated mylist

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From paul.williams at uwex.edu  Wed Nov  3 16:34:53 2004
From: paul.williams at uwex.edu (Paul Williams)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 09:34:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Rotating mailman mbox archives
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20041103092013.00bb1780@imap.uwex.edu>

I couple of weeks ago I asked how people were
dealing with disk storage with mailman archives.

I didn't receive an email that I could use.  In the end
we used a similar method that we were using with listproc.

If anyone is interested, I have indicated the method
in the following description.  Someone may find it useful.

We elected to rotate the mbox archives monthly and keep
6 versions and also save them in gzip format to conserve space.
We do this via a crontab entry as follows

0 0 1 * *  /bin/su - mailman -c '/usr/local/etc/mailman/cycle-mbox-gz | \
           mail -s "mailman mboxes cycled `date`" mailman' \
                1>/dev/null 2>/dev/null

The cycle-mbox-gz file is as follows (I don't know who
wrote the rotate() script)

#!/bin/sh
#
# Shell script which cycles your 
~mailman/archives/private/LIST-NAME.mbox/LIST-NAME.mbox.x.gz files
# then copies the latest mbox to mbox.o and gzips it.
# It retains 6 units (a unit can be a day, week, month ...)
# It should be run out of the mailman's account (server) cron entry.
# as in /bin/su - mailman -c '/usr/local/etc/mailman/cycle-mbox-gz'

# Change log
# paulw  10-25-04       Changed so it rotates mailman mailboxes

MAILMAN=~mailman
MM_ARCHIVE_DIR=$MAILMAN/archives/private


rotate() {
         file="$1"; shift
         rm -f "$file.$1.gz"
         for i in "$@"; do
                 [ "$i" = "0" ] && j="" || j=".`expr $i - 1`"
                 [ -f "$file$j.gz" ] && mv -f "$file$j.gz" "$file.$i.gz"
         done
         if [[ -s $file ]]; then
           cp $file $file.0 ; chmod 664 $file.0
           gzip $file.0
           cp /dev/null "$file"
         fi
}

#
# Find and cycle the mboxes ...
#
#for FILE in "test2"
for FILE in `$MAILMAN/bin/list_lists -b`
    do
         rotate $MM_ARCHIVE_DIR/$FILE.mbox/$FILE.mbox 5 4 3 2 1 0
         #echo $MM_ARCHIVE_DIR/$FILE.mbox/$FILE.mbox
    done



It seems to work as long as you don't need to run the
~mailman/bin/arch command and regenerate the indexes.

paulw



From acravens at uen.org  Wed Nov  3 18:52:20 2004
From: acravens at uen.org (Andy Cravens)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:52:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How can I manually delete held msg?
Message-ID: <41891AD4.377FE6A9@uen.org>

Is there a way to manually delete held messages from a list's config.db
file?  I periodically get held messages that will not delete because
they contain a sequence of characters that cause the discard function to
blow up.  You know, the 'ol "We're sorry, we hit a bug!" error screen.

In the past I've solved this by determining the date of the bad e-mail
and restoring the config.db file from tape backup to the day before the
e-mail was received.  This is getting to be too much.  

I've searched the archives and found a few posts on this but no
solutions.  I saw one post from Barry Warsaw that described a procedure
using bin/withlist but I didn't understand it. 

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/1999-July/001720.html   

I don't know how to "lock" a list and I don't want to edit the list's
attributes.  I just want to delete the bad e-mail message.  Any tips
would be appreciated.

I'm using mailman 1.0 (upgrading next month)


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From twarfield at astcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 20:56:06 2004
From: twarfield at astcorp.com (Tom Warfield)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:56:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderation
Message-ID: <EGELKLAHLIAAFINGMFMJKEIIGGAA.twarfield@astcorp.com>


What are the instructions to set this up?

I have setup my mailman list, and everything *appears* to be working.

But I can not get the moderation to work at all.  If you send anything, from
anyone, it just lets it go right through.

Trying to figure out where I have gone wrong.  To me I think something is
not working right with mailman, but it is possible I have missed something
somewhere.  Just whish I knew where!

I even went into the users portion and set everyone to moderate posts and
that didn't work either.  Now I am stuck.

Thanks,
Tom W.



From rick at niof.net  Wed Nov  3 20:56:19 2004
From: rick at niof.net (Rick Pasotto)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:56:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <20041103195619.GY31976@niof.net>

On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 12:37:09PM -0600, Kelly Conwell wrote:
> How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing
> this, as well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an
> allowed sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe
> (5) more individuals users who are not part of the list.

Tell the user: "Don't do that."

-- 
"The road uphill and the road downhill are one and the same."
	-- Heraclitus, philosopher (Ca. 540-470 BCE)
    Rick Pasotto    rick at niof.net    http://www.niof.net


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From trichard at techovations.com  Wed Nov  3 21:53:59 2004
From: trichard at techovations.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:53:59 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
Message-ID: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>

Ok,

Here is what I'm trying to do I would like to know if anyone has done
this.  Right I have a mail server that handles all my incoming and out
going mail along with all my web request.  So right now my server is a
mail and web server.

What I would like to do is split off the web server on to its own machine.
 So that I have a server that is dedicated to mail and one that is
dedicated to web.

I have tried this once before without much success in getting mailman to
run on the web server and still send mail.

Has anyone successfully set this up and if so what tricks to I need to do
to get it to work correctly.

Thanks
Troy




From kclair at serve.com  Wed Nov  3 21:29:10 2004
From: kclair at serve.com (Kristina Clair)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:29:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
Message-ID: <20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>

I set this up with no problem - but the key was that the webserver and
mailserver share a network file system.  I installed mailman into
/home/mailman, which both servers mount.  Then I set up apache as per
the installation instructions and started the qrunner on the mailserver.
The webserver handles the web requests and the mailserver sends out all
the mail.
Of course you need to make sure that both servers have all the proper
users and groups, etc, set up for mailman to run.

I don't really know how you'd do it without some shared filesystem...

Kristina

On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 02:53:59PM -0600, Troy Richard wrote:
- Ok,
- 
- Here is what I'm trying to do I would like to know if anyone has done
- this.  Right I have a mail server that handles all my incoming and out
- going mail along with all my web request.  So right now my server is a
- mail and web server.
- 
- What I would like to do is split off the web server on to its own machine.
-  So that I have a server that is dedicated to mail and one that is
- dedicated to web.
- 
- I have tried this once before without much success in getting mailman to
- run on the web server and still send mail.
- 
- Has anyone successfully set this up and if so what tricks to I need to do
- to get it to work correctly.
- 
- Thanks
- Troy
- 
- 
- ------------------------------------------------------
- Mailman-Users mailing list
- Mailman-Users at python.org
- http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
- Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
- Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/


From trichard at techovations.com  Wed Nov  3 22:44:26 2004
From: trichard at techovations.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:44:26 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
Message-ID: <57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>

I think that might be my problem.  Both servers have their own file
systems.  I wonder if their is a way to aliases the url to point to the
mail server instead of having to go to
http://www.mydomain.com:8080/mailman/listinfo/maillist you could point
http://www.mudomain.com/mailman/listinfo/maillist to resovle to the
previous url.

Not sure if this can be done but that would be one way around it.  Anyone
have any ideas if this possible.

Thanks
Troy

> I set this up with no problem - but the key was that the webserver and
> mailserver share a network file system.  I installed mailman into
> /home/mailman, which both servers mount.  Then I set up apache as per
> the installation instructions and started the qrunner on the mailserver.
> The webserver handles the web requests and the mailserver sends out all
> the mail.
> Of course you need to make sure that both servers have all the proper
> users and groups, etc, set up for mailman to run.
>
> I don't really know how you'd do it without some shared filesystem...
>
> Kristina
>
> On Wed, Nov 03, 2004 at 02:53:59PM -0600, Troy Richard wrote:
> - Ok,
> -
> - Here is what I'm trying to do I would like to know if anyone has done
> - this.  Right I have a mail server that handles all my incoming and out
> - going mail along with all my web request.  So right now my server is a
> - mail and web server.
> -
> - What I would like to do is split off the web server on to its own
> machine.
> -  So that I have a server that is dedicated to mail and one that is
> - dedicated to web.
> -
> - I have tried this once before without much success in getting mailman to
> - run on the web server and still send mail.
> -
> - Has anyone successfully set this up and if so what tricks to I need to
> do
> - to get it to work correctly.
> -
> - Thanks
> - Troy
> -
> -
> - ------------------------------------------------------
> - Mailman-Users mailing list
> - Mailman-Users at python.org
> - http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> - Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> - Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>






From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Wed Nov  3 23:22:18 2004
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:22:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
Message-ID: <D2B871FE-2DE6-11D9-BD83-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>

no, but you can set up mailman to run on one machine, and use the 
second machine as a web proxy for the pages. that's straight forward. 
I'd be very leery of network filesystem issues because of the locking 
problems that might happen.


On Nov 3, 2004, at 1:44 PM, Troy Richard wrote:

> I think that might be my problem.  Both servers have their own file
> systems.  I wonder if their is a way to aliases the url to point to the
> mail server instead of having to go to



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Thu Nov  4 01:20:06 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 21:20:06 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but any subscriber
	can write!
Message-ID: <418975B6.60202@adinet.com.uy>

Hello,

I am managing a web based (CPanel + MailMan WebAdmin) mailing list.

I've 1200+ subscribers and want only an email address, say, 
allowed at mydomain.com to write to newsletter at mydomain.com to write 
messages in order to be delivered to all the subscribers.

It's an announce-only list. I don't want other subscribers to post.
Buy if any subscriber writes a message to newsletter at mydomain.com the 
message is posted...!

I've been browsing all the settings and can't find the way out. I'm sure 
I'm missing some important setting/flag.

How can I manage this?

Thanks in advance.
-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov  4 00:31:49 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:31:49 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
Message-ID: <p0600203ebdaf1a960592@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:44 PM -0600 2004-11-03, Troy Richard wrote:

>  Not sure if this can be done but that would be one way around it.  Anyone
>  have any ideas if this possible.

	Another way to resolve this issue is to have Mailman dump all 
outgoing mail on another server (or set of servers).  Mailman doesn't 
have to worry about developing large queues or anything, and the bulk 
of the work handling the mail messages is done by the downstream 
machines.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov  4 00:37:23 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:37:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <D2B871FE-2DE6-11D9-BD83-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<D2B871FE-2DE6-11D9-BD83-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <p0600203fbdaf1ae818af@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:22 PM -0800 2004-11-03, Chuq Von Rospach wrote:

>                                                                  I'd be
>  very leery of network filesystem issues because of the locking problems
>  that might happen.

	From what we've been able to tell, Mailman is actually quite 
intelligent in terms of working around all the standard NFS problems 
with locking, etc....

	I'd still be leery of using NFS for a variety of other reasons, 
but it does appear that the Mailman code does everything it could 
reasonably do to minimize the known problems with NFS.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From trichard at techovations.com  Thu Nov  4 00:47:05 2004
From: trichard at techovations.com (Troy Richard)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:47:05 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <p0600203ebdaf1a960592@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<p0600203ebdaf1a960592@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <4359.192.168.0.199.1099525625.squirrel@192.168.0.199>

So you would just install the mailman on the 2nd server and then just send
all the mail through the mail server.  The only problem I'm seeing with
that is how do you get the incoming mail to the web server for mailman to
process?

Troy


> At 3:44 PM -0600 2004-11-03, Troy Richard wrote:
>
>>  Not sure if this can be done but that would be one way around it.
>> Anyone
>>  have any ideas if this possible.
>
> 	Another way to resolve this issue is to have Mailman dump all
> outgoing mail on another server (or set of servers).  Mailman doesn't
> have to worry about developing large queues or anything, and the bulk
> of the work handling the mail messages is done by the downstream
> machines.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>    SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
>






From jwt at onjapan.net  Thu Nov  4 00:42:52 2004
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:42:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <13D6754F-2DF2-11D9-A2CF-000A957919FA@onjapan.net>

On Nov 4, 2004, at 03:37, Kelly Conwell wrote:

> How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing 
> this, as
> well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
> sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
> individuals users who are not part of the list.

On the list's Privacy options... Recipient filters page you can 
increase max_num_recipients.

In the long run, I think you would be better off teaching the user not 
to post that way (which among other things shares the list of addresses 
with the mailing list).



-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 00:46:29 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:46:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110315462907818c6556ca@msapiro>

Kelly Conwell wrote:

>How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
>well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
>sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
>individuals users who are not part of the list.


You seem to have some server problem involved in delivering your post
to mailman-users. From the headers of this post ...

Received: from glenview34.org (mail.glenview34.org [216.124.72.10])
	by bag.python.org (Postfix) with ESMTP
	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Thu,  4 Nov 2004 00:11:27 +0100 (CET)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by glenview34.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E57105C7DE
	for <mailman-users at python.org>; Wed,  3 Nov 2004 18:37:10 +0000 (GMT)

This is the 5th copy of the post delivered from glenview34.org to
bag.python.org.

Now, to address your question. I'm not sure what you're asking, but if
you want to unconditionally accept posts with a lot of recipients, go
to your list's Privacy options...->Recipient filters page and set
max_num_recipients according to "Details for". Or if you want to hold
posts that Cc: a number of people, do the same.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 00:50:15 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 15:50:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderation
In-Reply-To: <EGELKLAHLIAAFINGMFMJKEIIGGAA.twarfield@astcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411031550150796adc861eb@msapiro>

Tom Warfield wrote:
>
>What are the instructions to set this up?
>
>I have setup my mailman list, and everything *appears* to be working.
>
>But I can not get the moderation to work at all.  If you send anything, from
>anyone, it just lets it go right through.
>
>Trying to figure out where I have gone wrong.  To me I think something is
>not working right with mailman, but it is possible I have missed something
>somewhere.  Just whish I knew where!
>
>I even went into the users portion and set everyone to moderate posts and
>that didn't work either.  Now I am stuck.

If you go to your list's Privacy options...->Sender filters, is
generic_nonmember_action set to Accept?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chad at shire.net  Thu Nov  4 00:55:52 2004
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:55:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <4359.192.168.0.199.1099525625.squirrel@192.168.0.199>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>
	<p0600203ebdaf1a960592@[10.0.1.3]>
	<4359.192.168.0.199.1099525625.squirrel@192.168.0.199>
Message-ID: <E4A87C86-2DF3-11D9-BFDF-003065A70D30@shire.net>


On Nov 3, 2004, at 4:47 PM, Troy Richard wrote:

> So you would just install the mailman on the 2nd server and then just 
> send
> all the mail through the mail server.  The only problem I'm seeing with
> that is how do you get the incoming mail to the web server for mailman 
> to
> process?

Just set up a second webserver that only processes mailman and stick it 
on the mail server.  It is the easiest...  Or have a separate mail 
server that only handles lists and have mailman installed on that, 
which is what I do. It could even be a virtual machine type server if 
you have that capability (like a "jail" on FreeBSD)

Chad

>
> Troy
>
>
>> At 3:44 PM -0600 2004-11-03, Troy Richard wrote:
>>
>>>  Not sure if this can be done but that would be one way around it.
>>> Anyone
>>>  have any ideas if this possible.
>>
>> 	Another way to resolve this issue is to have Mailman dump all
>> outgoing mail on another server (or set of servers).  Mailman doesn't
>> have to worry about developing large queues or anything, and the bulk
>> of the work handling the mail messages is done by the downstream
>> machines.
>>
>> --
>> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>>
>> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
>> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>>
>>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>>
>>    SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov  4 00:57:42 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 00:57:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but
	any subscriber 	can write!
In-Reply-To: <418975B6.60202@adinet.com.uy>
References: <418975B6.60202@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <p06002041bdaf20726531@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:20 PM -0300 2004-11-03, Arlequ?n wrote:

>  It's an announce-only list. I don't want other subscribers to post.
>  Buy if any subscriber writes a message to newsletter at mydomain.com the
>  message is posted...!

	See the Mailman FAQ at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, question 3.11.  See also 
question 6.11.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov  4 01:00:57 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 01:00:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on 2 servers
In-Reply-To: <4359.192.168.0.199.1099525625.squirrel@192.168.0.199>
References: <59449.199.38.51.133.1099515239.squirrel@199.38.51.133>   
	<20041103202910.GA3379@karl.serve.com>   
	<57772.199.38.51.133.1099518266.squirrel@199.38.51.133>   
	<p0600203ebdaf1a960592@[10.0.1.3]>
	<4359.192.168.0.199.1099525625.squirrel@192.168.0.199>
Message-ID: <p06002042bdaf214d988b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:47 PM -0600 2004-11-03, Troy Richard wrote:

>  So you would just install the mailman on the 2nd server and then just send
>  all the mail through the mail server.

	I think that would probably be one of the easiest configurations, yes.

>                                         The only problem I'm seeing with
>  that is how do you get the incoming mail to the web server for mailman to
>  process?

	The Mailman machine handles it's own incoming mail.  The other 
machine is used just for outgoing mail.  At least, that's the easy 
way to do it.

	If the one outgoing-only machine turns out not to be sufficient, 
it's easy enough to set up additional outgoing-only machines and to 
pass traffic off to the set of outgoing-only machines through some 
sort of round-robin or other load-balancing technique.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 01:01:05 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 16:01:05 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but any
	subscribercan write!
In-Reply-To: <418975B6.60202@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <PC172220041103160105095372d79f5e@msapiro>

Arlequ?n wrote:
>
>I am managing a web based (CPanel + MailMan WebAdmin) mailing list.
>
>I've 1200+ subscribers and want only an email address, say, 
>allowed at mydomain.com to write to newsletter at mydomain.com to write 
>messages in order to be delivered to all the subscribers.
>
>It's an announce-only list. I don't want other subscribers to post.
>Buy if any subscriber writes a message to newsletter at mydomain.com the 
>message is posted...!
>
>I've been browsing all the settings and can't find the way out. I'm sure 
>I'm missing some important setting/flag.
>
>How can I manage this?

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.11 (and also article 6.11)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Thu Nov  4 01:08:28 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 16:08:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Administrivia boilerplate
Message-ID: <F8E9366FF0D71B6C53F34A27@[10.0.0.4]>

Does anyone have some good boilerplate to use in a welcome message or a 
periodic reminder to cover some of the common newbie mistakes?

I'm thinking of issues like hijacking threads, which a lot of new list 
users don't understand, and use of the List-Id header for filtering. (Esp. 
for Outlook Express, users of which rarely see headers.)


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From twarfield at astcorp.com  Thu Nov  4 05:02:53 2004
From: twarfield at astcorp.com (Tom Warfield)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:02:53 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderation
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411031550150796adc861eb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <EGELKLAHLIAAFINGMFMJMEJDGGAA.twarfield@astcorp.com>

>>
>>I even went into the users portion and set everyone to moderate posts and
>>that didn't work either.  Now I am stuck.
>
>If you go to your list's Privacy options...->Sender filters, is
>generic_nonmember_action set to Accept?

Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
defined.

Currently I have checked "hold"

But it still lets them through.

Tom W.



From web_worker at mosaic.org.nz  Thu Nov  4 05:17:01 2004
From: web_worker at mosaic.org.nz (Michael Adams)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:17:01 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <4189AD3D.2000800@mosaic.org.nz>

Kelly Conwell wrote:

>How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
>well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
>sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
>individuals users who are not part of the list.
>
>Thanks
>
>Kelly
>
>  
>
Hmm, Too many messages to the recipient. ;)

Michael
lurking and learning.


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 06:08:37 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:08:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderation
In-Reply-To: <EGELKLAHLIAAFINGMFMJMEJDGGAA.twarfield@astcorp.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411032108370093679ee9e2@msapiro>

Tom Warfield wrote:
>
>Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is
>defined.
>
>Currently I have checked "hold"
>
>But it still lets them through.

Is there anything at all in "List of non-member addresses whose
postings should be automatically accepted.
(Details for accept_these_nonmembers)"? If so what?

What do the MTA aliases for the list look like?

Have there been any changes to GLOBAL_PIPELINE in Defaults.py or
mm_cfg.py? Does the list have a 'pipline' attribute?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From james.chen at qut.edu.au  Thu Nov  4 06:26:16 2004
From: james.chen at qut.edu.au (James Chen)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 15:26:16 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does wrap long file name in attachment
Message-ID: <200411040525.BYF46510@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>

Hi all,

We recently deployed Mailman for mail list service and are experiencing a
interesting problem. When a mail with attachment which longer than  45
characters and space in it then the file name is wrapped after passing
through mailman. Please see logs  below which I popped from command line.

Is there anyone with similar experience on this ? please help!


Regards,
James Chen



=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


--=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: application/msword;
        name="NO-SpaceWORD 123456789AVCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ15.doc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="NO-SpaceWORD
        123456789AVCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ15.doc"


--=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: application/msword;
        name="SpaceWORD 12345 6789 AVCDEFG HIJKL MNOP QRST UVW XYZ4.doc"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="SpaceWORD 12345 6789 AVCDEFG HIJKL MNOP QRST
        UVW XYZ4.doc"


--=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: application/pdf;
        name="Space PDF 12345 6789 AVCDEFG HIJKL MNOP QRST UVW XYZ9.pdf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="Space PDF 12345 6789 AVCDEFG HIJKL MNOP QRST
        UVW XYZ9.pdf"


--=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: application/pdf;
        name="NO-SpacePDF_123456789AVCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ15.pdf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Disposition: attachment;
        filename="NO-SpacePDF_123456789AVCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ15.pdf"


--=====================_1812299921==_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


--=====================_1812299921==_--





From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov  4 12:14:26 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 12:14:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does wrap long file name in
 attachment
In-Reply-To: <200411040525.BYF46510@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>
References: <200411040525.BYF46510@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>
Message-ID: <p06002049bdafbf2b98c6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:26 PM +1000 2004-11-04, James Chen wrote:

>  We recently deployed Mailman for mail list service and are experiencing a
>  interesting problem. When a mail with attachment which longer than  45
>  characters and space in it then the file name is wrapped after passing
>  through mailman. Please see logs  below which I popped from command line.

	Mailman doesn't do any line re-wrapping like this.  This is 
almost certainly a problem with your MUA.  Try looking at the same 
message from the same list with a different MUA.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From allen at circleofa.com  Thu Nov  4 12:54:15 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:54:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
Message-ID: <BDAF5867.63C4%allen@circleofa.com>

I have a situation in which I frequently need to manually unsubscribe some
members from my list--usually triggered by some incoming message such as an
unrecognized bounce. Instead of going to the list's admin page and using
"Mass Unsubscribe", or looking up the member and checking the unsub box, I
would like to be able to unsubscribe them by e-mail using an admin password,
such as:

    unsubscribe joe at aol.com pwd=AdminPwd

Reason: I want to partially automate the unsub process using AppleScript.

The documentation describes the unsubscribe command like this:

    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]

Can I use that with the admin password and "address=joe at aol.com"?
-- 






From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From webmaster at mcvfifesanddrums.org  Thu Nov  4 15:56:32 2004
From: webmaster at mcvfifesanddrums.org (MCV Webmaster)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:56:32 -0500 (EST)
Subject: help moderators! (was Re: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to
	the message)
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0411040954430.29875@www.fifedrum.org>


Can someone please moderate this person, at least temporarily? There is 
obviously some techncial problem on her end.



From sage at ll.mit.edu  Thu Nov  4 16:17:27 2004
From: sage at ll.mit.edu (Jay Sage)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 10:17:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Up Mailman to Send Bounce Messages to Me
Message-ID: <418A4807.50504@ll.mit.edu>

I run a list for an organization that sends information to
its members using Mailman. I would like to be notified
whenever a message to a subscriber bounces so that I can
contact the member directly (perhaps by telephone) to find
out what their correct email address is, or to help them
with whatever problem is preventing the delivery of our
email. In other words, I do not want Mailman to
automatically disable or cancel the subscription, and I do
not want Mailman to just swallow up the bounce messages.

How do I set up Mailman to do what I want?

-- Jay Sage



From tim at litwiller.net  Thu Nov  4 16:25:57 2004
From: tim at litwiller.net (Tim Litwiller)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 09:25:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am a new Mailman user
Message-ID: <418A4A05.4090802@litwiller.net>

I am running SME 6.0.1 and the mailman contrib package found at contribs.org

It was quite easy to setup but after a week or so I found this in the archive 
the list has been working ok but I'd rather learn something about it and not have errors
than just leave it.

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/opt/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 43, in ?
    from Mailman import mm_cfg
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
    from Defaults import *
  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py", line 94
    DEFAULT_URL = 
                 ^
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

I've looked at those files and am wondering what is wrong with the first two 
errors and for the third error should I remove that line. In my Defaults.py I have this

---cut---
# DEFAULT_HOST_NAME has been replaced with DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, however some
# sites may have the former in their mm_cfg.py files.  If so, we'll believe
# that, otherwise we'll believe DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.  Same for DEFAULT_URL.
DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = None
DEFAULT_URL = None
---cut---






From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From judypetersen at comcast.net  Thu Nov  4 17:10:01 2004
From: judypetersen at comcast.net (Judy Petersen)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:10:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please unsubscribe me
In-Reply-To: <418A4A05.4090802@litwiller.net>
Message-ID: <NGBBJNMJILLGJCEPBPJNAEDIFOAA.judypetersen@comcast.net>

I appreciate the help I've found here but it appears that we are switching
to another host with a different mail program.

Thank you.

Judy P



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 17:25:59 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:25:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <BDAF5867.63C4%allen@circleofa.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411040825590984e3d88b33@msapiro>

Allen Watson wrote:

>I have a situation in which I frequently need to manually unsubscribe some
>members from my list--usually triggered by some incoming message such as an
>unrecognized bounce. Instead of going to the list's admin page and using
>"Mass Unsubscribe", or looking up the member and checking the unsub box, I
>would like to be able to unsubscribe them by e-mail using an admin password,
>such as:
>
>    unsubscribe joe at aol.com pwd=AdminPwd
>
>Reason: I want to partially automate the unsub process using AppleScript.
>
>The documentation describes the unsubscribe command like this:
>
>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>
>Can I use that with the admin password and "address=joe at aol.com"?

If the list's unsubscribe_policy is set to require admin approval, no
password is required in the unsubscribe e-mail command, but then you
have to approve the unsubscribe on the web so this probably doesn't
work for you.

Currently, only the users' password works; the list admin password
doesn't.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 18:32:30 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:32:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman does wrap long file name inattachment
In-Reply-To: <p06002049bdafbf2b98c6@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411040932300671fa233bfd@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 3:26 PM +1000 2004-11-04, James Chen wrote:
>
>>  We recently deployed Mailman for mail list service and are experiencing a
>>  interesting problem. When a mail with attachment which longer than  45
>>  characters and space in it then the file name is wrapped after passing
>>  through mailman. Please see logs  below which I popped from command line.
>
>	Mailman doesn't do any line re-wrapping like this.  This is 
>almost certainly a problem with your MUA.  Try looking at the same 
>message from the same list with a different MUA.

Actually, these are MIME headers, not body lines and Mailman does fold
long headers in accord with RFC2822 sec 2.2.3

The problem is that this folding is only supposed to be done where the
standard allows for "folding white space" which is where the type or
amount of white space is not syntactically significant. Here the
folding is done inside of a quoted string which represents a file name
and that appears to be wrong.

I have tested this with my own installation sending one message to me
directly, to me via Mailman listname-owner, to me via a Mailman list
and to me via the MTAs on the Mailman machine and procmail. The two
messages that went through Mailman got the file name folded and the
other two didn't.

Headers as sent and received not through mailman were

>Content-Type: message/rfc822;
>	name="Make the name a whole bunch longerRe  [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail.eml"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>Content-Disposition: attachment;
>	filename="Make the name a whole bunch longerRe  [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail.eml"

Headers that passed through mailman were

>Content-Type: message/rfc822;
>	name="Make the name a whole bunch longerRe [Mailman-Users] Admin
>	unsubscribe members by e-mail.eml"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
>Content-Disposition: attachment;
>	filename="Make the name a whole bunch longerRe [Mailman-Users] Admin
>	unsubscribe members by e-mail.eml"

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 18:36:44 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 09:36:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Setting Up Mailman to Send Bounce Messages to Me
In-Reply-To: <418A4807.50504@ll.mit.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411040936440515fa233b6f@msapiro>

Jay Sage wrote:

>I run a list for an organization that sends information to
>its members using Mailman. I would like to be notified
>whenever a message to a subscriber bounces so that I can
>contact the member directly (perhaps by telephone) to find
>out what their correct email address is, or to help them
>with whatever problem is preventing the delivery of our
>email. In other words, I do not want Mailman to
>automatically disable or cancel the subscription, and I do
>not want Mailman to just swallow up the bounce messages.
>
>How do I set up Mailman to do what I want?

Set up the listname-bounces alias in your MTA to deliver to you instead
of Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 19:48:27 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:48:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am a new Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <418A4A05.4090802@litwiller.net>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411041048270453785b2c60@msapiro>

Tim Litwiller wrote:

>I am running SME 6.0.1 and the mailman contrib package found at contribs.org
>
>It was quite easy to setup but after a week or so I found this in the archive 

What archive?? Do you mean the Mailman error log file?

>the list has been working ok but I'd rather learn something about it and not have errors
>than just leave it.
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/opt/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 43, in ?
>    from Mailman import mm_cfg
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
>    from Defaults import *
>  File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py", line 94
>    DEFAULT_URL = 
>                 ^
>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>
>I've looked at those files and am wondering what is wrong with the first two 
>errors and for the third error should I remove that line. In my Defaults.py I have this

This is a traceback. There is only the one error. The lines above are
how you got there.

>---cut---
># DEFAULT_HOST_NAME has been replaced with DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, however some
># sites may have the former in their mm_cfg.py files.  If so, we'll believe
># that, otherwise we'll believe DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.  Same for DEFAULT_URL.
>DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = None
>DEFAULT_URL = None
>---cut---

This looks correct. What happens if you do

cd /opt/mailman/Mailman/
python   <- or whatever the command is to invoke python on your system
>>>from Defaults import *  <- ">>>" is python prompt

Then type control-D at the next prompt to quit.

If you get the same error, try

rm Defaults.pyc

and then do the above again.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tim at litwiller.net  Thu Nov  4 19:59:08 2004
From: tim at litwiller.net (Tim Litwiller)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 12:59:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am a new Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411041048270453785b2c60@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411041048270453785b2c60@msapiro>
Message-ID: <418A7BFC.30007@litwiller.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Tim Litwiller wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I am running SME 6.0.1 and the mailman contrib package found at contribs.org
>>
>>It was quite easy to setup but after a week or so I found this in the archive 
>>    
>>
>
>What archive?? Do you mean the Mailman error log file?
>
>  
>
>>the list has been working ok but I'd rather learn something about it and not have errors
>>than just leave it.
>>
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "/opt/mailman/cron/gate_news", line 43, in ?
>>   from Mailman import mm_cfg
>> File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 44, in ?
>>   from Defaults import *
>> File "/opt/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py", line 94
>>   DEFAULT_URL = 
>>                ^
>>SyntaxError: invalid syntax
>>
>>I've looked at those files and am wondering what is wrong with the first two 
>>errors and for the third error should I remove that line. In my Defaults.py I have this
>>    
>>
>
>This is a traceback. There is only the one error. The lines above are
>how you got there.
>
>  
>
>>---cut---
>># DEFAULT_HOST_NAME has been replaced with DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST, however some
>># sites may have the former in their mm_cfg.py files.  If so, we'll believe
>># that, otherwise we'll believe DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST.  Same for DEFAULT_URL.
>>DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = None
>>DEFAULT_URL = None
>>---cut---
>>    
>>
>
>This looks correct. What happens if you do
>
>cd /opt/mailman/Mailman/
>python   <- or whatever the command is to invoke python on your system
>  
>
>>>>from Defaults import *  <- ">>>" is python prompt
>>>      
>>>
>
>Then type control-D at the next prompt to quit.
>
>If you get the same error, try
>
>rm Defaults.pyc
>
>and then do the above again.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>  
>
judging by that :

 DEFAULT_URL = none
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
NameError: name 'none' is not defined

should line 94 be set  to
DEFAULT_URL = "none" as that doens't give an error




From chanaka at vcs.informatics.lk  Thu Nov  4 20:55:08 2004
From: chanaka at vcs.informatics.lk (chanaka at vcs.informatics.lk)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 01:55:08 +0600 (LKT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re:mail man 2.1.5 on Red Hat
Message-ID: <3049.203.81.110.45.1099598108.squirrel@www2.informatics.lk>

Hi list

I have installed mailman 2.1.5 on red hat Es 3.0 and configured with

#./configure --prefix=/var/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache  --with-mail-
gid=mail

and added a list called newlist ecerything went fine but when i send a
mail to newlist the mail does not come to the moderator.
what could be the possible reason?

appreciate help on this.


Chanaka-



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 20:31:44 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:31:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am a new Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <418A7BFC.30007@litwiller.net>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411041131440000357b144c@msapiro>

Tim Litwiller wrote:

>judging by that :
>
> DEFAULT_URL = none
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>NameError: name 'none' is not defined
>
>should line 94 be set  to
>DEFAULT_URL = "none" as that doens't give an error

It looks to me as though it did give an error as it should

>NameError: name 'none' is not defined

If you just type

DEFAULT_URL = None

at the python prompt, it should give no error, but that isn't the
issue. The issue is whether or not there is any actual problem with
your Defaults.py or perhaps with Defaults.pyc (the compiled version).

Did you try actually cd to the Mailman directory, invoke python and
type "from Defaults import *" as I suggested. If you do that and it
gives no error, then there is no actual problem and no reason for the
original error you quoted.

If you do that and it gives the error, and you then remove Defaults.pyc
and try again and it is OK, then the problem was that Defaults.pyc was
corrupted and it is now fixed. If the error doesn't go away, then
there is some problem with that line in Defaults.py, but it didn't
seem so from your previous post.

Also, if this was only a single error occurrence, it will probably
remain a mystery, as normally, /opt/mailman/cron/gate_news is run by
cron every 5 minutes.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov  4 20:46:16 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:46:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re:mail man 2.1.5 on Red Hat
In-Reply-To: <3049.203.81.110.45.1099598108.squirrel@www2.informatics.lk>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411041146160453357b15f5@msapiro>

<chanaka at vcs.informatics.lk> wrote:
>
>I have installed mailman 2.1.5 on red hat Es 3.0 and configured with
>
>#./configure --prefix=/var/mailman --with-cgi-gid=apache  --with-mail-
>gid=mail
>
>and added a list called newlist ecerything went fine but when i send a
>mail to newlist the mail does not come to the moderator.
>what could be the possible reason?

See:

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.14.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From tim at litwiller.net  Thu Nov  4 22:50:09 2004
From: tim at litwiller.net (Tim Litwiller)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 15:50:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I am a new Mailman user
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411041131440000357b144c@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411041131440000357b144c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <418AA411.10101@litwiller.net>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Tim Litwiller wrote:
>
>  
>
>>judging by that :
>>
>>DEFAULT_URL = none
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>> File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>>NameError: name 'none' is not defined
>>
>>should line 94 be set  to
>>DEFAULT_URL = "none" as that doens't give an error
>>    
>>
>
>It looks to me as though it did give an error as it should
>
>  
>
>>NameError: name 'none' is not defined
>>    
>>
>
>If you just type
>
>DEFAULT_URL = None
>
>at the python prompt, it should give no error, but that isn't the
>issue. The issue is whether or not there is any actual problem with
>your Defaults.py or perhaps with Defaults.pyc (the compiled version).
>
>Did you try actually cd to the Mailman directory, invoke python and
>type "from Defaults import *" as I suggested. If you do that and it
>gives no error, then there is no actual problem and no reason for the
>original error you quoted.
>
>If you do that and it gives the error, and you then remove Defaults.pyc
>and try again and it is OK, then the problem was that Defaults.pyc was
>corrupted and it is now fixed. If the error doesn't go away, then
>there is some problem with that line in Defaults.py, but it didn't
>seem so from your previous post.
>
>Also, if this was only a single error occurrence, it will probably
>remain a mystery, as normally, /opt/mailman/cron/gate_news is run by
>cron every 5 minutes.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>  
>
I didn't get an error doing what you said except on the

DEFAULT_URL = None 

line.  But now it doesn't error. 






From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kmccann at bellanet.org  Fri Nov  5 02:47:15 2004
From: kmccann at bellanet.org (Kevin McCann)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:47:15 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many, period.
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <418ADBA3.8040707@bellanet.org>

Am I the only one who has received about 20 messages identical to the 
one below? If not, is there a list admin for this list who can disable 
her subscription?

Thanks,
Kevin


Kelly Conwell wrote:

>How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
>well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
>sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
>individuals users who are not part of the list.
>  
>



From chad at shire.net  Fri Nov  5 02:39:30 2004
From: chad at shire.net (Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:39:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
Message-ID: <89866481-2ECB-11D9-BFDF-003065A70D30@shire.net>


On Nov 3, 2004, at 11:37 AM, Kelly Conwell wrote:

> How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing 
> this, as
> well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
> sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
> individuals users who are not part of the list.

Is there a reason why I have been getting this same message several 
times a day for several days now?

Thanks
Chad



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 03:00:30 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:00:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <89866481-2ECB-11D9-BFDF-003065A70D30@shire.net>
Message-ID: <PC172220041104180030064032ea701e@msapiro>

Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote:
>
>On Nov 3, 2004, at 11:37 AM, Kelly Conwell wrote:
>
>> How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing 
>> this, as
>> well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
>> sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
>> individuals users who are not part of the list.
>
>Is there a reason why I have been getting this same message several 
>times a day for several days now?

Yes, the OP has some kind of server problem that keeps retrying the
delivery of the post every hour and 20 minutes or so even though the
post is accepted by the incoming MTA at python.org every time.

Either the OP has not been checking mail and is unaware of this or
doesn't know what to do about it (hint talk to the administrator of
your server at mail.glenview34.org).

Also, the administrators of this list (mailman-users at python.org) are
either unaware of the problem or haven't bothered to moderate the OP's
subscription or take other action.

And I know it must seem like several days, but it's only been about 31
hours.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From raquel at thericehouse.net  Fri Nov  5 03:15:54 2004
From: raquel at thericehouse.net (Raquel Rice)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:15:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many, period.
In-Reply-To: <418ADBA3.8040707@bellanet.org>
References: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>
	<418ADBA3.8040707@bellanet.org>
Message-ID: <20041104181554.490e4026.raquel@thericehouse.net>

On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 20:47:15 -0500
Kevin McCann <kmccann at bellanet.org> wrote:

> Am I the only one who has received about 20 messages identical to
> the one below? If not, is there a list admin for this list who can
> disable her subscription?
> 
> Thanks,
> Kevin
> 

I'm ready to blacklist him!

-- 
Raquel
============================================================
Yearn to understand first and to be understood second.
  --Beca Lewis Allen



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 04:23:31 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 04:23:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041104180030064032ea701e@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041104180030064032ea701e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002054bdb0a1e0bb82@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:00 PM -0800 2004-11-04, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Also, the administrators of this list (mailman-users at python.org) are
>  either unaware of the problem or haven't bothered to moderate the OP's
>  subscription or take other action.

	I had thought someone else would have already taken action 
against this user, but I guess not.  I just sent a note to a couple 
of different places where python.org admins hang out, to see if I can 
get one of them to handle this user or give me the approval to do it 
myself.

	I've already got all the access I need and I'm pretty sure I know 
where to find the site admin password, I just do not (yet) have the 
official approval to do so.


	Of all the python.org admins on the various lists, I may be the 
only one who pays much attention to mailman-users.  I'll see if I can 
get that corrected.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From dennis.black at ualberta.ca  Tue Nov  2 18:28:14 2004
From: dennis.black at ualberta.ca (Dennis Black)
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:28:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping all moderation
Message-ID: <41914C5A@webmail.ualberta.ca>

>===== Original Message From Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> =====
>Dan Newcombe wrote:
>>
>>I am on v2.1.5.  Right now the attachments are moderated by size.  I have
>>it set to 2M.  Anything below goes through - anything above gets put in
>>the moderate queue.  That is what I don't want.   I'd much rather anything
>>below 2M go through, anything above 2M gets dropped outright.
>
>The setting you're looking for doesn't currently exist. I agree that it
>would be good to be able to specify the disposition of "too big"
>messages and also to specify the disposition of messages caught in the
>Privacy options...->Recipient filters, but this ability doesn't
>currently exist. Messages caught in any of these filters are always
>held for "moderator" approval.
>
Dan, I haven't taught myself python either. That's why I use procmail.
This recipe would do it, intercepting the message before it hits your list.

.yourlist.procmailrc:

TMPDIR=/tmp
MAILDIR=$TMPDIR
LOGFILE=/dev/null

:0
* > 2048000
/dev/null

:0
|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post yourlist


your aliases file:
yourlist: "|/usr/local/bin/procmail -m /etc/procmail/.yourlist.procmailrc"



From marendra at yahoo.com  Wed Nov  3 08:21:53 2004
From: marendra at yahoo.com (Marendra Nutriaji)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 07:21:53 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman usage - accepting all nonmember mail
Message-ID: <20041103072153.3341.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>

hi there
i'm using mailman for a while, and it's good i reckon.
what i want to ask is: how can i permanently accept
all non member user to send email to my list?

as long as i know, i only can put the accepted email
address in the box. I don't wan't to do that. i want
all people in the world can send email to the member
of my list. how can i do that?

your help is really appreciated

thank you in advance
marendra


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From twarfield at astcorp.com  Wed Nov  3 19:38:19 2004
From: twarfield at astcorp.com (Tom Warfield)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:38:19 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List Moderation?
Message-ID: <EGELKLAHLIAAFINGMFMJOEIFGGAA.twarfield@astcorp.com>

What are the instructions to set this up?

I have setup my mailman list, and everything *appears* to be working.

But I can not get the moderation to work at all.  If you send anything, from
anyone, it just lets it go right through.

Trying to figure out where I have gone wrong.  To me I think something is
not working right with mailman, but it is possible I have missed something
somewhere.  Just whish I knew where!

Thanks,
Tom W.



From martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk  Thu Nov  4 00:33:07 2004
From: martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk (martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 23:33:07 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Update: LDAP Membership Adaptor V3.0
Message-ID: <E84D32316C63B54D80F864E4B9EA0696030CD548@ECOWV03M.Telewest.Internal>

Martin Krafft said...

>also sprach martin.whinnery at blueyonder.co.uk <martin.whinnery at >blueyonder.co.uk> [2004.10.30.1506 +0200]:
>> Most of the code here is his, I've modified it to use group
>> membership to populate the lists.
>
>Define populate, please? Is this a one-time import feature, or is
>the directory server contacted in real-time?

Real-time. So for the lists concerned (which needn't be all your lists, the MemberAdaptor setup applies per-list, which is nice, ta Barry), the list's members are gotten from the directory.

Remember that this particular implementation (if that's not too big a word) takes away ALL per-user customisation, of which arguably the most painful is digest prefs. All you get is list-wide configuration.

A 'good' implementation would allow for per-list user prefs customisation ( 'I want the users of this list to get digests', for instance ), and would modify the web interface to reflect the lessened functionality. Which mine doesn't. Quite frankly, I don't yet know how, although I did have a reasonable handle on it for a little while. And I've not got much time. It does what I need right now.


Anyways, enough of my own voice.

Mart




From zrelli at jaist.ac.jp  Thu Nov  4 06:37:59 2004
From: zrelli at jaist.ac.jp (Saber Zrelli)
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 14:37:59 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] problem with group mailman 
Message-ID: <4189C037.2090709@jaist.ac.jp>

Hi folks ,

I just installed mailman in my FreeBSD box ,
everything went allright , except this :
when some user sends a registration confirmation , he recieves a mail 
containing the following error report :

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
"|/usr/local/www/data/mailman/mail/mailman request jaist"
    (reason: 8)
    (expanded from: <jaist-request at thunder.jpcert.cc>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
Failure to find group name mailman.  Try adding this group
to your system, or re-run configure, providing an
existing group name with the command line option --with-mail-gid.
554 5.3.0 unknown mailer error 8



This error message says that the system does not contain the group "mailman" , but when I check in my password and group files , I can see that i have a user "mailman" and a group "mailman" .


thanks for any suggestions .


--
Saber




From joasia at redakcja.esensja.pl  Thu Nov  4 10:36:17 2004
From: joasia at redakcja.esensja.pl (Jo'Asia)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 10:36:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowner.org server
Message-ID: <614826871.20041104103617@redakcja.esensja.pl>

I have a few questions after upgrading mailman - they would be right on
the Listowner mailing list. Unfortunately this is the one and only
official mailman-related list that simply does not work (looks like the
lisowner.org server is down).

Jo'Asia

-- 
 __.-=-.  -< Joanna Slupek >----------------------< http://esensja.pl/ >-
  --<()>  -< joasia @ hell . pl >------< http://bujold.fantastyka.net/ >-
 .__.'|   -< If you're gonna have delusions, you may as well go for
             the really satisfying ones.      {Babylon 5, Marcus Cole} >-






From homepage at efn.org  Thu Nov  4 16:21:23 2004
From: homepage at efn.org (HPA)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 07:21:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Listowners list available?
Message-ID: <00c801c4c281$f2f63d10$0300a8c0@TOWER>

Hey I'm attempting to access the Mailman Listowners mailing list and
archives from
http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/lists.html

"Listowners" and "archive" links are not working...
http://listowner.org/
http://listowner.org/pipermail/lo/

Woody





From kim at nevelsteen.com  Thu Nov  4 18:52:06 2004
From: kim at nevelsteen.com (Kim Nevelsteen)
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 18:52:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who is moderated?
Message-ID: <000d01c4c297$0069a3f0$1717a8c0@cactus>

Hello Mainman developers,
I have searched through your help files and such and I don't see a 
single reference to my question, so I state it via mail.

How does Mailman confirm that a message sent out under a particular
address is *actually* the real address. I can configure any outgoing
address I like in my email client, so who says I can't send a mail
to the list under the list owners address and get a post of spam?

-KiM



From shawn at vitalstocks.com  Thu Nov  4 01:36:07 2004
From: shawn at vitalstocks.com (Shawn Meehan)
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 17:36:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Question
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA5TINdbGW8ESVLamTxneRWsKAAAAQAAAAi6LPDhIeRUWaNlYXDvxJIwEAAAAA@vitalstocks.com>

Does your mailman software have a feature where you can tell the amount
of people that are opening your emails?
 
What a great tool you make available!  Thanks
 
Shawn M. Meehan
460 NW Heron Avenue
Mountain Home, ID  83647-2444
EMail: shawn at vitalstocks.com
 


From ginu.george at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 09:14:14 2004
From: ginu.george at gmail.com (Ginu George)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:14:14 +0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator
Message-ID: <b203303504110500146f026852@mail.gmail.com>

I am facing some problems.
We have 4mailing list in the mail man server. i am the admin for the
four, but we have more than 20 co-admins and moderators.

When i put moderator password for the moderators all other, even the
members can access the admin pages. how can i solve this.

-- 
Regards
Ginu George


From zainie at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 09:26:43 2004
From: zainie at gmail.com (Zain Memon)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 00:26:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
Message-ID: <4b398499041105002687bd9df@mail.gmail.com>

I'm running Postfix as my MTA with Mailman, and I'm having a bit of
trouble. I've created a list, added subscribers, and stuck the info
into /etc/aliases. However, when I email the listname at domain.com
address, it bounces back as "Unknown User." Here's what shows up in
/var/log/maillog:

Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: connect from
rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: 2144F20BA:
client=rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 2144F20BA:
message-id=<4b398499041105002321e617d9 at mail.gmail.com>
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA:
from=<zainie at gmail.com>, size=1236, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/virtual[18970]: 2144F20BA:
to=<famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0,
status=bounced (unknown user: "famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net")
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 3C5E620BC:
message-id=<20041105082451.3C5E620BC at fanime.kicks-ass.net>
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: from=<>,
size=2956, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA: removed
Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: disconnect from
rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/smtp[18972]: 3C5E620BC:
to=<zainie at gmail.com>, relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27],
delay=2, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1099643002)
Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: removed

Here's my main.cf file for Postfix: http://fanime.kicks-ass.net/main.cf
I've been following the instructions on this page:
http://www.syntheticzero.com/howto/vmail.php

If I had to guess, I'd say my problem was the relay... The log entry
for recieving the email says relay=virtual while the log entry for
sending the "User Unkown" email back to the server says
"relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27]"... and the latter works.

Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong?


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 10:07:12 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:07:12 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Feature Question
In-Reply-To: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA5TINdbGW8ESVLamTxn
	eRWsKAAAAQAAAAi6LPDhIeRUWaNlYXDvxJIwEAAAAA@vitalstocks.com>
References: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA5TINdbGW8ESVLamTxn
	eRWsKAAAAQAAAAi6LPDhIeRUWaNlYXDvxJIwEAAAAA@vitalstocks.com>
Message-ID: <p06002056bdb0f30dc214@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:36 PM -0700 2004-11-03, Shawn Meehan wrote:

>  Does your mailman software have a feature where you can tell the amount
>  of people that are opening your emails?

	No.  To do so would require that everyone run the same MUA, and 
that the MUA provide this level of detail, and that the headers you 
place on the outgoing mail would require this kind of access.

	None of this is true on the Internet.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 10:23:23 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:23:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listowner.org server
In-Reply-To: <614826871.20041104103617@redakcja.esensja.pl>
References: <614826871.20041104103617@redakcja.esensja.pl>
Message-ID: <p06002057bdb0f357d37c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:36 AM +0100 2004-11-04, Jo'Asia wrote:

>  I have a few questions after upgrading mailman - they would be right on
>  the Listowner mailing list. Unfortunately this is the one and only
>  official mailman-related list that simply does not work (looks like the
>  lisowner.org server is down).

	The FAQ entry 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.025.htp> 
has been created to address this issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 10:23:34 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:23:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman Listowners list available?
In-Reply-To: <00c801c4c281$f2f63d10$0300a8c0@TOWER>
References: <00c801c4c281$f2f63d10$0300a8c0@TOWER>
Message-ID: <p06002058bdb0f407fcd3@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:21 AM -0800 2004-11-04, HPA wrote:

>  "Listowners" and "archive" links are not working...
>  http://listowner.org/
>  http://listowner.org/pipermail/lo/

	The FAQ entry 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.025.htp> 
has been created to address this issue.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 10:15:16 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:15:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who is moderated?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c4c297$0069a3f0$1717a8c0@cactus>
References: <000d01c4c297$0069a3f0$1717a8c0@cactus>
Message-ID: <p06002059bdb0f42a04ed@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:52 PM +0100 2004-11-04, Kim Nevelsteen wrote:

>  Hello Mainman developers,

	Actually, this is the mailman-users mailing list.  There is a 
separate mailman-developers mailing list.

>  How does Mailman confirm that a message sent out under a particular
>  address is *actually* the real address.

	It checks the headers in a specific order to see what is claimed.

>                                           I can configure any outgoing
>  address I like in my email client, so who says I can't send a mail
>  to the list under the list owners address and get a post of spam?

	That's true.  There is no cryptographic validation performed on 
the sender address as claimed in the message.

	See 
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-October/040464.html> 
for more on this subject.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From tony.molloy at ul.ie  Fri Nov  5 10:43:18 2004
From: tony.molloy at ul.ie (Tony Molloy)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:43:18 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inital mailman list
Message-ID: <200411050943.18750.tony.molloy@ul.ie>


I installed and configured Mailman. Then according to the install guide 
I created the initial mailman list using:

    ./bin/newlist mailman

Then I started the daemon and checked it was running.

I'm trying to subscribe myself to the inital mailman list, as it says in 
the install guide, but when I click on the list either on the "mailing 
lists" page or the "list admin overview" page nothing happens.

I've created a test list and it seems to work OK so the installation 
seems to be fine.

How do I subscribe to the initial mailman mailing list.

Regards,

Tony
-- 


Tony Molloy.

Dept. of Comp. Sci.
University of Limerick


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 11:00:03 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:00:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Who is moderated?
In-Reply-To: <000d01c4c297$0069a3f0$1717a8c0@cactus>
References: <000d01c4c297$0069a3f0$1717a8c0@cactus>
Message-ID: <p0600205abdb0ff83adb5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:52 PM +0100 2004-11-04, Kim Nevelsteen wrote:

>  I have searched through your help files and such and I don't see a
>  single reference to my question, so I state it via mail.

	The entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.046.htp> 
has been created to address this issue.

	Please let us know if you have any further questions on this topic.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From data2 at cablespeed.com  Fri Nov  5 15:15:52 2004
From: data2 at cablespeed.com (Jon Krause)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:15:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inital mailman list
References: <200411050943.18750.tony.molloy@ul.ie>
Message-ID: <0b1601c4c341$f5baff20$05dc3818@mdm2205>


From: "Tony Molloy"
:
: I installed and configured Mailman. Then according to the install guide
: I created the initial mailman list using:
:
:     ./bin/newlist mailman
:
: Then I started the daemon and checked it was running.
:
: I'm trying to subscribe myself to the inital mailman list, as it says in
: the install guide, but when I click on the list either on the "mailing
: lists" page or the "list admin overview" page nothing happens.
:
: I've created a test list and it seems to work OK so the installation
: seems to be fine.
:
: How do I subscribe to the initial mailman mailing list.
:
: Regards,
:
: Tony
: -- 
:
:
: Tony Molloy.
:
: Dept. of Comp. Sci.
: University of Limerick
------------------------------------------------------

Tony, append the admin URL with the listname (in your example: /mailman
Full URL might read: http://lists.tonysdomain.edu/admin/tonyslistname  ).
Since you have not made your list "public" you need to go directly to it to
view admin options, membership options, etc.

Best, Jon



From asbjorn at tigerstaden.no  Fri Nov  5 15:22:15 2004
From: asbjorn at tigerstaden.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?=)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:22:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <PC172120041027180211043763a4afe0@msapiro>
References: <PC172120041027180211043763a4afe0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <opsgzwvdzguvpchu@quark>

On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:02:11 -0700, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> The text in the "info" box is not HTML despite the confusing
> documentation. It is text only. Any included "<", ">" or "&"
> characters are escaped.

Although I have not edited this page myself, I understand it so as the  
text has not been in HTML in any way. Plain text has been entered, but  
still non-ASCII characters have been double-escaped. Why they are escaped  
in the first place is a mystery; why they are escaped twice is  
incomprihensible.

> You can replace the entire template as above if you wish. See
> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
> for info about editing other templates beyond the three that can be
> edited this way.

Okay, thanks. I don't understand the procedure quite well, though. If I  
edit <what?>, will I be able to change the outputed HTML and CSS and thus  
be able to change the look of (all) the Mailman pages (including the  
archives)?

> Changes to the source will affect the entire installation, not just a
> particular list or virtual domain and are more difficult to maintain
> across updates. It's better to edit the templates.

Okay.

> That said, the modules involved in presenting the listinfo page are
> Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py and Mailman/HTMLFormatter.py.

Nice to know. Thanks.

-- 
Asbj?rn Ulsberg         -=|=-        asbjornu at hotmail.com
?He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away?


From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 16:30:37 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 07:30:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Inital mailman list
In-Reply-To: <200411050943.18750.tony.molloy@ul.ie>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110507303703434ff8d95c@msapiro>

Tony Molloy wrote:
>
>I installed and configured Mailman. Then according to the install guide 
>I created the initial mailman list using:
>
>    ./bin/newlist mailman
>
>Then I started the daemon and checked it was running.
>
>I'm trying to subscribe myself to the inital mailman list, as it says in 
>the install guide, but when I click on the list either on the "mailing 
>lists" page or the "list admin overview" page nothing happens.

The problem is the recommended rewrite rule for Apache is too agressive.

You probably have something like

RedirectMatch /mailman[/]*$ http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

or something equivalent if your web server is not Apache.

The pattern should be anchored. I.e.

RedirectMatch /^mailman[/]*$ http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo

The workaround before you change your Apache config is to append
something to the URL you use or modify it in some other way that the
cgi script ignores. E.g. instead of trying to go to

http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman

go to

http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mailman/x

or to

http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/Mailman

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 17:10:47 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:10:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman usage - accepting all nonmember mail
In-Reply-To: <20041103072153.3341.qmail@web41523.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411050810470875d4d731ba@msapiro>

Marendra Nutriaji wrote:

>i'm using mailman for a while, and it's good i reckon.
>what i want to ask is: how can i permanently accept
>all non member user to send email to my list?

Go to Privacy options...->Sender filters and set
generic_nonmember_action to Accept.

>as long as i know, i only can put the accepted email
>address in the box. I don't wan't to do that. i want
>all people in the world can send email to the member
>of my list. how can i do that?

The above setting will do it. You could also put a pattern such as
 ^.*$
which will match any address in the accept_these_nonmembers list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sdean at bard.edu  Fri Nov  5 18:36:02 2004
From: sdean at bard.edu (Stewart Dean)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:36:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>
Message-ID: <418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>

Thanks, Paul, have a beer on me...........it's nice to know that I'm not just some street 
corner crank, but that the situation really IS stupid, SO unfortunate.  Features are nice, 
front ends are nice, blart and bonkus death rays are soooooooooooooo hot....butbutbutbut, 
you development elvenfolk didja never think that a major element of the adaption of your 
cathedral of code is system management and upgrade?????...that if it's too much of a 
Chaley Foxtrot in that respect, no one will want to dance with you?????

A lot of this freeware just stuns me.  One application like Mailman is bad enough, but add 
in Apache and python and manymanyfiles and you just have to have a combinatorial explosion 
of phase-of-the-moon gotchas when you try to upgrade....<just get the new tarball and 
untar/drop it on top the production version>  Uh-huh, and when smoke comes out the side, 
/then/ what?
We usta have a super-geek who would whump up these magical application suites that knocked 
the socks of the management, gottahaveit!!!, and then throw it over the wall to me to 
maintain and upgrade without any documentation.  Now you have 3000 people using and loving 
it and wanting it up every second (a college runs 25x8x357) and along comes a honking 
security exposure.  Should I defecate or go blind???
The magic word is PRODUCTION.  Honestly, without Perfect Knowledge (TMk) how could you?
I mean, the only halfway air tight, non-omniscient, production-tolerable way to do it is 
to have two machines that leapfrog each other.....
Sheesh.  Stop Making New Function And Make/use A GNU Packaging Setup That Allows SysAdmins 
to Upgrade, Patch, Backout (whatta concept!) and GNU APPS 'MARKET SHARE' WILL GO UP BY 
50%, 200%, who knows?   You will be so proud of yourself!

sorry.  So much promise.  Gorgeous babe of an application, but /so/ high maintenance and 
maybe a dose of the c*&p

paul.ellis at cybertrust.com wrote:

> Stewart -
> 
> <pulling up a barstool>
> 
> I feel your pain. With all due respect to the helpful comments posted by
> Mr. Turnbull and Mr. Dennis, I find Mailman very awkward indeed. You make
> reference to the idea of building on a test host and pushing the install
> over to a production box - and how involved something like that is.  
> Myself, I've been in the test stages of a migration of a mailman install
> (2.0.x to 2.1.x) from one box to another for many weeks. The sorta, kinda
> migration info in the Mailman faq is far from adequate. The bestiary of
> python, binaries and config files that Mailman is (and *then* you add in
> apache and a decent MTA) makes migration distressingly difficult. Though I
> was painstakingly carefull to install Mailman properly on the new box
> (yes, the INSTALL doc is ridiculously lengthly: tweak, dink, edit, hack,
> kludge) and move everything over (lists, archives, data directory), my
> first attempt failed completely. My second attempt mostly worked but,
> finally, was unusable due to the fact that the admindb functions would
> *occasionally* return 500 errors to my list owner's browsers. yeah. great.
> I posted request for help to this list but the silence was deafening.
> Although I do notice that the people on this list are generally pretty
> helpful, it's my impression that the development team is Very busy (well,
> smart people usually are) and can't pay as much attention to streamlining
> Mailman as some of us would prefer.
> 
> But I'm SO in agreement with your point about the single binary (or few
> binaries). And how that really is in keeping with the unix tradition. If
> the kind of functionality apache or sendmail provide (yeah postfix does it
> with a veritable smurf attack of binaries but what an elegant and
> maintainable smurf attack!) can be packaged in the condensed manner that
> they are (single binary) it's just frustrating that Mailman is so, um,
> distributed ;-). Especially when the heavy lifting is really done by the
> MTA and web server....
> 
> On the other hand, the price is right... And as far as I can tell, if you
> install Mailman carefull and tatoo the 0s and 1s to the drive (forget
> about moving it anywhere, ever) it does seem to work well. And finally, it
> does seem to me to be the best thing out there (I haven't done an
> exhaustive survey) for letting users manage their own lists. Because god
> knows we all probably don't have the time for that....
> 
> Best,
> --------------------------
> Paul Ellis
> Unix Systems Administrator
> Cybertrust Corporation
> paul.ellis at cybertrust.com
> 703/480-8605
> 
> 
> On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Stewart Dean wrote:
> 
> 
>><scraping sound of soapbox being pulled up>
>>
>>I really, /really/ appreciate applications that build into a single binary or a very few 
>>files, that can be built on a (different) build and test host, then copied over to the 
>>production when everything is thrashed out and ripe...you know, like Pine and UoW IMAP.
>>I like it because:
>>= it keeps the production host clean,
>>= updates are MUCH more manageable,
>>= you don't have a compiler on the production host to give hackers a way to build nasty 
>>things on your production machines,
>>= You know when you remove/replace the single/very few files, you've got everything 
>>cleaned out/replaced.
>>= there's prolly other things that don't come to mind right now.
>>
>>I have just gotten to page three of INSTALL and it seems like This Will Not Be The Case 
>>With Mailman.  Tell me it isn't so.

-- 
====
Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Henderson Computer Resources
Center of Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York  12504
sdean at bard.edu  voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 17:35:56 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:35:56 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
In-Reply-To: <4b398499041105002687bd9df@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411050835560656d4d730e8@msapiro>

Zain Memon wrote:

>I'm running Postfix as my MTA with Mailman, and I'm having a bit of
>trouble. I've created a list, added subscribers, and stuck the info
>into /etc/aliases.

Why not /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases which mailman will update
automatically with the right settings in mm_cfg.py

>However, when I email the listname at domain.com
>address, it bounces back as "Unknown User." Here's what shows up in
>/var/log/maillog:
>
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: connect from
>rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: 2144F20BA:
>client=rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 2144F20BA:
>message-id=<4b398499041105002321e617d9 at mail.gmail.com>
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA:
>from=<zainie at gmail.com>, size=1236, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/virtual[18970]: 2144F20BA:
>to=<famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0,
>status=bounced (unknown user: "famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net")
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 3C5E620BC:
>message-id=<20041105082451.3C5E620BC at fanime.kicks-ass.net>
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: from=<>,
>size=2956, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA: removed
>Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: disconnect from
>rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
>Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/smtp[18972]: 3C5E620BC:
>to=<zainie at gmail.com>, relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27],
>delay=2, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1099643002)
>Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: removed
>
>Here's my main.cf file for Postfix: http://fanime.kicks-ass.net/main.cf
>I've been following the instructions on this page:
>http://www.syntheticzero.com/howto/vmail.php

Did you follow the "mailman postfix howto" that's linked from the
Mailman section near the bottom of that page?

>If I had to guess, I'd say my problem was the relay... The log entry
>for recieving the email says relay=virtual while the log entry for
>sending the "User Unkown" email back to the server says
>"relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27]"... and the latter works.

This seems definitely to be an alias problem. Did you run Postfix
"newaliases" or did you run Mailman bin/genaliases?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Nov  5 17:38:47 2004
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:38:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>
	<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <2A535CC4-2F49-11D9-9228-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>

And you get what you pay for, I guess. If you're in that situation, why 
do you assume that because the software doesn't have a price tag you no 
longer need a compentent tech person managing it? you did a great 
explanation of why geeks still get paychecks, not why these packages 
are bad.


On Nov 5, 2004, at 9:36 AM, Stewart Dean wrote:

>  Now you have 3000 people using and loving it and wanting it up every 
> second (a college runs 25x8x357) and along comes a honking security 
> exposure.  Should I defecate or go blind???
> The magic word is PRODUCTION. 



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 17:48:21 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:48:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator
In-Reply-To: <b203303504110500146f026852@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411050848210031b67e52b4@msapiro>

Ginu George wrote:

>I am facing some problems.
>We have 4mailing list in the mail man server. i am the admin for the
>four, but we have more than 20 co-admins and moderators.
>
>When i put moderator password for the moderators all other, even the
>members can access the admin pages. how can i solve this.

This seems very strange. First of all, the moderator password as
opposed to the administrator password only allows access to the
admindb page. only the administrator password should allow access to
the admin pages.

How are list members or anyone accessing the admin pages. Do they not
get challenged for a password? If you start a new browser session
(i.e. quit your browser entirely and then start it again) and go to an
admin page, are you challenged for a password?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kconwell at glenview34.org  Wed Nov  3 19:37:09 2004
From: kconwell at glenview34.org (Kelly Conwell)
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:37:09 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
Message-ID: <BDAE8175.CA5%kconwell@glenview34.org>

How do I correct "Too many recipients to the message" in a mailing this, as
well as, see who the user is sending to ? The list user is an allowed
sender. He post To: alist at domain.org and will also Cc: maybe (5) more
individuals users who are not part of the list.

Thanks

Kelly




From millerlu at integraonline.com  Fri Nov  5 18:15:59 2004
From: millerlu at integraonline.com (Luke Miller)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 09:15:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All recipients refused: address family not supported
Message-ID: <001101c4c35b$1ec31c40$0a011eac@mimir>

 

I have been getting an interesting error on one of the lists on my server.  The rest of the lists appear to work fine.  This same error appears the last few times someone has tried to send to this list.  The list owner reports that no one is getting any messages from the list.  Here are the log entries I found:

 

post:

Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) post to LIST from email at domain.com, size=812, 1 failures

 

smtp:

Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) All recipients refused: (1, 'address family not supported')

                                          

I am running Mailman version 2.0.8 on Solaris (sparc), my MTA is qmail.  

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

Thanks,

 

Luke



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Nov  5 18:23:48 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 12:23:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>
	<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 12:36, Stewart Dean wrote:
> [ snip free software is hard to use rant ]

It seems to me you have several options are your disposal:

1) Pay a nominal fee for your software. In the Linux domain Red Hat and
other distribution vendors work hard to provide the type of end user
experience you want. Enterprise versions seek to provide stability,
security, and ease of use for demanding enterprise class situations by
doing active engineering on open source software. Red Hat, SuSE, and
others are in business, its not a charity (but you can download free
versions of our RPM from the Fedora project, which forms the base for
the next enterprise distribution).

2) Contribute your time to the project. Most everything you get for free
with an open source project was done by volunteers who thought it was
more productive to contribute than complain. Your work in making the
project better will be appreciated by all.

3) Don't use something you never paid for or contributed to.

John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From zainie at gmail.com  Fri Nov  5 19:00:28 2004
From: zainie at gmail.com (Zain Memon)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 10:00:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411050835560656d4d730e8@msapiro>
References: <4b398499041105002687bd9df@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1722200411050835560656d4d730e8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4b3984990411051000227f43b5@mail.gmail.com>

I've tried sticking it into both /etc/aliases and
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.My postfix $alias_maps variable
includes both these locations. Yeah, I've ran both newaliases and
genaliases. I've ran a postalias on both as well. Followed the
INSTALL, README, and README.POSTFIX down to the dot.

For postfix, my $relay_domains variable is set to $transport_maps,
which is set to mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/transport (according to the
tutorial). Why the mysql:? Do I need to add any data into a MySQL
table?


On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 08:35:56 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Zain Memon wrote:
> 
> >I'm running Postfix as my MTA with Mailman, and I'm having a bit of
> >trouble. I've created a list, added subscribers, and stuck the info
> >into /etc/aliases.
> 
> Why not /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases which mailman will update
> automatically with the right settings in mm_cfg.py
> 
> 
> 
> >However, when I email the listname at domain.com
> >address, it bounces back as "Unknown User." Here's what shows up in
> >/var/log/maillog:
> >
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: connect from
> >rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: 2144F20BA:
> >client=rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 2144F20BA:
> >message-id=<4b398499041105002321e617d9 at mail.gmail.com>
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA:
> >from=<zainie at gmail.com>, size=1236, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/virtual[18970]: 2144F20BA:
> >to=<famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net>, relay=virtual, delay=0,
> >status=bounced (unknown user: "famine at fanime.kicks-ass.net")
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/cleanup[18969]: 3C5E620BC:
> >message-id=<20041105082451.3C5E620BC at fanime.kicks-ass.net>
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: from=<>,
> >size=2956, nrcpt=1 (queue active)
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 2144F20BA: removed
> >Nov  5 00:24:51 fanime postfix/smtpd[18966]: disconnect from
> >rproxy.gmail.com[64.233.170.198]
> >Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/smtp[18972]: 3C5E620BC:
> >to=<zainie at gmail.com>, relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27],
> >delay=2, status=sent (250 2.0.0 OK 1099643002)
> >Nov  5 00:24:53 fanime postfix/qmgr[18963]: 3C5E620BC: removed
> >
> >Here's my main.cf file for Postfix: http://fanime.kicks-ass.net/main.cf
> >I've been following the instructions on this page:
> >http://www.syntheticzero.com/howto/vmail.php
> 
> Did you follow the "mailman postfix howto" that's linked from the
> Mailman section near the bottom of that page?
> 
> >If I had to guess, I'd say my problem was the relay... The log entry
> >for recieving the email says relay=virtual while the log entry for
> >sending the "User Unkown" email back to the server says
> >"relay=gsmtp171.google.com[64.233.171.27]"... and the latter works.
> 
> This seems definitely to be an alias problem. Did you run Postfix
> "newaliases" or did you run Mailman bin/genaliases?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From mikej at confluenttech.com  Fri Nov  5 19:22:13 2004
From: mikej at confluenttech.com (Michael G. Jung)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:22:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Traceback in update.py
Message-ID: <9D7F0DF3FB16D41184010050DA90E0000181B7E6@neo.confluentasp.local>

Hello:

I've searched around the archive but have not found reference to this.
I attempted to upgrade from version 2.1.4 to version 2.1.5.  When the
update proceedure runs I get this traceback.  I'll be happy to supply
any additional information.

OS: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-P3
Python: 2.3.3

Any advise on how to proceed would be much appreciated.

Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database
updating old qfiles
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "bin/update", line 780, in ?
    errors = main()
  File "bin/update", line 709, in main
    update_qfiles()
  File "bin/update", line 441, in update_qfiles
    msg, data = dequeue(filebase)
  File "bin/update", line 497, in dequeue
    msg = cPickle.load(msgfp)

Michael Jung
Confluent Technologies
11857 Commonwealth Drive
Louisville, KY 40299
502-212-4045 Work Voice


From brenno at dewinter.com  Fri Nov  5 19:29:45 2004
From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 19:29:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman e-mail delivery
Message-ID: <1099679385.2067.120.camel@localhost>

Hi,

I have a new server with mailman installed on it. When testing the
MailMan-functionality I have the strangest thing. When I sent a mail to
the test list, it is delivered to the wrapper (according to the log).
But after that the e-mail seems to be archived in /dev/null, since there
is no trace. The spooky part is that the mailman-logs don't report
anything about the e-mail.

I run Debian Stable with LDAP, Cyrus, IMAP, TLS, etc. on the server and 
have Mailman 2.0.11-1woody8. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Brenno.
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 19:29:08 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 19:29:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Too many recipients to the message
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041104180030064032ea701e@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041104180030064032ea701e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0600205dbdb1764c8513@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:00 PM -0800 2004-11-04, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>>Is there a reason why I have been getting this same message several
>>times a day for several days now?
>
>  Yes, the OP has some kind of server problem that keeps retrying the
>  delivery of the post every hour and 20 minutes or so even though the
>  post is accepted by the incoming MTA at python.org every time.

	Okay, the problem user is now moderated, and they will not be 
allowed to post to the list until they fix their mail server.

>  Also, the administrators of this list (mailman-users at python.org) are
>  either unaware of the problem or haven't bothered to moderate the OP's
>  subscription or take other action.

	In the future, please send all such complaints to 
<mailman-users-owner at python.org>.  Chuq and I try to keep up on this 
list, but I know that Barry doesn't always have the time to do so. 
If you want to get the attention of the list admins, this is the best 
way to do it.

	Yes, I'm also guilty of not following this rule.  ;)

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Fri Nov  5 19:51:52 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 18:51:52 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I "set delivery off" via email?
Message-ID: <C1B6BCA8-2F5B-11D9-BCC9-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>

In just the same way as you can subscribe and unsubscribe from a 
mailman list by sending (for example) an email to:  
<mailinglistname-request at postoffice.com>  with the subject line:
unsubscribe <password> address=member at postoffice.com,  I was under the 
impression that you can suspend delivery of list emails by sending an 
email to the same address with subject line:
set delivery off <password> address=member at postoffice.com

Is that not correct?
If it IS correct, then why is it not working?

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 20:03:07 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:03:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I "set delivery off" via email?
In-Reply-To: <C1B6BCA8-2F5B-11D9-BCC9-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041105110307096889d32dcf@msapiro>

PeteBell wrote:

>In just the same way as you can subscribe and unsubscribe from a 
>mailman list by sending (for example) an email to:  
><mailinglistname-request at postoffice.com>  with the subject line:
>unsubscribe <password> address=member at postoffice.com,  I was under the 
>impression that you can suspend delivery of list emails by sending an 
>email to the same address with subject line:
>set delivery off <password> address=member at postoffice.com
>
>Is that not correct?
>If it IS correct, then why is it not working?

It's two commands so they must be in the body, not the subject.

set authenticate <password> [address=<address>]
set delivery off

For documentation of e-mail 'set' commands send the command

set help

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sdean at bard.edu  Fri Nov  5 21:09:11 2004
From: sdean at bard.edu (Stewart Dean)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:09:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>	
	<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
	<1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>

John, everything you say is valid, and your response is helpful.  It is not my intent to 
just 'bitch from the cheap seat'...the old, 'The food's no good and there's not enough of it'.
What I was attempting to express was/is my frustration at a beautiful application with 
many good feature, responsive development, etc., etc....that is missing the boat with the 
fundamental issue of maintenance and updating.  It is like the guy who builds an exquisite 
power boat in the basement...but with no way to get it out of the basement.
I'd think it wouldn't have taken any longer to design the GNU packaging tools and process 
to build single-binary, host-portable output.  A lot of thought has gone into Mailman...a 
little more into in packaging would have boosted its acceptance enormously

John Dennis wrote:

> On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 12:36, Stewart Dean wrote:
> 
>>[ snip free software is hard to use rant ]
> 
> 
> It seems to me you have several options are your disposal:
> 
> 1) Pay a nominal fee for your software. In the Linux domain Red Hat and
> other distribution vendors work hard to provide the type of end user
> experience you want. Enterprise versions seek to provide stability,
> security, and ease of use for demanding enterprise class situations by
> doing active engineering on open source software. Red Hat, SuSE, and
> others are in business, its not a charity (but you can download free
> versions of our RPM from the Fedora project, which forms the base for
> the next enterprise distribution).
> 
> 2) Contribute your time to the project. Most everything you get for free
> with an open source project was done by volunteers who thought it was
> more productive to contribute than complain. Your work in making the
> project better will be appreciated by all.
> 
> 3) Don't use something you never paid for or contributed to.
> 
> John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>

-- 
====
Stewart Dean, Unix System Admin, Henderson Computer Resources
Center of Bard College, Annandale-on-Hudson, New York  12504
sdean at bard.edu  voice: 845-758-7475, fax: 845-758-7035



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 20:14:44 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:14:44 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman e-mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <1099679385.2067.120.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC172220041105111444064048c9818c@msapiro>

Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winterwrote:
>
>I have a new server with mailman installed on it. When testing the
>MailMan-functionality I have the strangest thing. When I sent a mail to
>the test list, it is delivered to the wrapper (according to the log).
>But after that the e-mail seems to be archived in /dev/null, since there
>is no trace. The spooky part is that the mailman-logs don't report
>anything about the e-mail.
>
>I run Debian Stable with LDAP, Cyrus, IMAP, TLS, etc. on the server and
>have Mailman 2.0.11-1woody8. Any help is greatly appreciated.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.14.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 20:21:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:21:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Traceback in update.py
In-Reply-To: <9D7F0DF3FB16D41184010050DA90E0000181B7E6@neo.confluentasp.local>
Message-ID: <PC172220041105112102015652f9a8de@msapiro>

Michael G. Jung wrote:
>
>I've searched around the archive but have not found reference to this.
>I attempted to upgrade from version 2.1.4 to version 2.1.5.  When the
>update proceedure runs I get this traceback.  I'll be happy to supply
>any additional information.
>
>OS: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-P3
>Python: 2.3.3
>
>Any advise on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
>
>Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database
>updating old qfiles
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "bin/update", line 780, in ?
>    errors = main()
>  File "bin/update", line 709, in main
>    update_qfiles()
>  File "bin/update", line 441, in update_qfiles
>    msg, data = dequeue(filebase)
>  File "bin/update", line 497, in dequeue
>    msg = cPickle.load(msgfp)
>

Was there an error message?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 20:24:21 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:24:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All recipients refused: address family not
	supported
In-Reply-To: <001101c4c35b$1ec31c40$0a011eac@mimir>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051124210312d104dc6d@msapiro>

Luke Miller wrote:
>
>I have been getting an interesting error on one of the lists on my server.  The rest of the lists appear to work fine.  This same error appears the last few times someone has tried to send to this list.  The list owner reports that no one is getting any messages from the list.  Here are the log entries I found:
>
> 
>
>post:
>
>Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) post to LIST from email at domain.com, size=812, 1 failures
>
> 
>
>smtp:
>
>Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) All recipients refused: (1, 'address family not supported')
>
>                                          
>
>I am running Mailman version 2.0.8 on Solaris (sparc), my MTA is qmail.  
>
>Does anyone have any ideas?

What do your qmail logs show?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 20:33:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:33:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
In-Reply-To: <4b3984990411051000227f43b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051133140828d104de6a@msapiro>

Zain Memon wrote:

>I've tried sticking it into both /etc/aliases and
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.My postfix $alias_maps variable
>includes both these locations. Yeah, I've ran both newaliases and
>genaliases. I've ran a postalias on both as well. Followed the
>INSTALL, README, and README.POSTFIX down to the dot.
>
>For postfix, my $relay_domains variable is set to $transport_maps,
>which is set to mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/transport (according to the
>tutorial). Why the mysql:? Do I need to add any data into a MySQL
>table?

Your getting beyond anything I know here, but "Why the mysql:?" would
be my question. The how to you're following is integrating mysql for
some purpose, but it is certainly not required for a basic Mailman
installation which only requires an MTA (Postfix in your case) and
Mailman plus a web server.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From allen at circleofa.com  Fri Nov  5 20:35:30 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 11:35:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411040825590984e3d88b33@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDB11602.66FD%allen@circleofa.com>

On 11/4/04 8:25 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Allen Watson wrote:
> 
>> The documentation describes the unsubscribe command like this:
>> 
>>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>> 
>> Can I use that with the admin password and "address=joe at aol.com"?
> 
> If the list's unsubscribe_policy is set to require admin approval, no
> password is required in the unsubscribe e-mail command, but then you
> have to approve the unsubscribe on the web so this probably doesn't
> work for you.
> 
> Currently, only the users' password works; the list admin password
> doesn't.
> 

I'd like to suggest, then, that this ability be added to Mailman. Listserv
has it. It is extremely useful and saves a lot of time.
-- 
Allen Watson

The Circle of Atonement, P.O. Box 4238, W. Sedona, AZ 86340
<http://www.circleofa.com>




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov  5 21:25:33 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 21:25:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding
 question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net
	.>		<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
	<1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <p0600205ebdb1909aaf32@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:09 PM -0500 2004-11-05, Stewart Dean wrote:

>  What I was attempting to express was/is my frustration at a beautiful
>  application with many good feature, responsive development, etc., etc....
>  that is missing the boat with the fundamental issue of maintenance and
>  updating.  It is like the guy who builds an exquisite power boat in the
>  basement...but with no way to get it out of the basement.

	Mailman is an open source project.  We will be glad to receive 
any contributions you may care to make to help us work towards this 
goal.

>  I'd think it wouldn't have taken any longer to design the GNU packaging
>  tools and process to build single-binary, host-portable output.  A lot
>  of thought has gone into Mailman...a little more into in packaging would
>  have boosted its acceptance enormously

	You really should read the Mailman FAQ entries at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=index>.  Pay special 
attention to question 4.55.

	Gnu and Linux are not the only operating systems or tool 
environments where Mailman is expected to run.  We don't ship 
binaries.  We ship source code.  If you want a nice and clean binary 
installation which adheres to whatever your views are regarding where 
things should be installed, then you should be looking to your OS 
vendor for a binary package.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brenno at dewinter.com  Fri Nov  5 21:47:41 2004
From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 21:47:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman e-mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041105111444064048c9818c@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041105111444064048c9818c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1099687661.2066.129.camel@localhost>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the pointer. I worked through it all, which I didn't solve
the issue and everything seemed normal. There is one thing different:
there is no user mailman. But that may be due to a difference between
RedHat and Debian. Renewed testing learned me that there is really no
logging done when I sent the e-mail.

May normal e-mail claims to deliver it to mailman:
Nov  5 21:41:34 webster postfix/local[30406]: DA2D55FA04:
to=<systeemgebruikers at dewinter.com>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent
("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post systeemgebruikers")

I didn't find anylocks or whatsoever. So I feel pretty clueless.

Cheers,

Brenno.

> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> 
> Article 3.14.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 21:52:08 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 12:52:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <BDB11602.66FD%allen@circleofa.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051252080250d4077ca2@msapiro>

Allen Watson wrote:

>On 11/4/04 8:25 AM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> Allen Watson wrote:
>> 
>>> The documentation describes the unsubscribe command like this:
>>> 
>>>    unsubscribe [password] [address=<address>]
>>> 
>>> Can I use that with the admin password and "address=joe at aol.com"?
>> 
>> If the list's unsubscribe_policy is set to require admin approval, no
>> password is required in the unsubscribe e-mail command, but then you
>> have to approve the unsubscribe on the web so this probably doesn't
>> work for you.
>> 
>> Currently, only the users' password works; the list admin password
>> doesn't.
>> 
>
>I'd like to suggest, then, that this ability be added to Mailman. Listserv
>has it. It is extremely useful and saves a lot of time.

The place to make feature requests is
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103

Also see the links in the first paragraph at
http://www.list.org/devs.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov  5 22:10:13 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 13:10:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman e-mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <1099687661.2066.129.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051310130781d104de3a@msapiro>

Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter wrote:
>
>Thanks for the pointer. I worked through it all, which I didn't solve
>the issue and everything seemed normal. There is one thing different:
>there is no user mailman. But that may be due to a difference between
>RedHat and Debian. Renewed testing learned me that there is really no
>logging done when I sent the e-mail.

The mailman user and group don't have to be "mailman" but there has to
be one. If you ran bin/check_perms as in the FAQ and it was OK, then
you're probably OK there.

>May normal e-mail claims to deliver it to mailman:
>Nov  5 21:41:34 webster postfix/local[30406]: DA2D55FA04:
>to=3D<systeemgebruikers at dewinter.com>, relay=3Dlocal, delay=3D1, status=3Ds=
>ent
>("|/var/lib/mailman/mail/wrapper post systeemgebruikers")
>
>I didn't find anylocks or whatsoever. So I feel pretty clueless.

Since you're working with a Debian package, you're probably better off
seeking help from Debian resources.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Fri Nov  5 23:02:47 2004
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 14:02:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>	
	<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
	<1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <6DDC3730-2F76-11D9-B3CB-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>


On Nov 5, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Stewart Dean wrote:

> John, everything you say is valid, and your response is helpful.  It 
> is not my intent to just 'bitch from the cheap seat'...the old, 'The 
> food's no good and there's not enough of it'.

> What I was attempting to express was/is my frustration at a beautiful 
> application with many good feature, responsive development, etc., 
> etc....that is missing the boat with the fundamental issue of 
> maintenance and updating.  It is like the guy who builds an exquisite 
> power boat in the basement...but with no way to get it out of the 
> basement.

And those two issues are fundamentally tied together.

There are a limited number of people actively involved in Mailman's 
code. Most of those people have limited amounts of time (I'm currently 
back in 60-70 hour mode, although I seem to be heading back to a more 
normal 50 hour week finally). Volunteers are involved because they have 
their own ideas of what's important and what is needed to improve the 
system, and they commit the time to make sure their priorities get 
implemented.

I've got a nice laundry list of things I'd like to see in Mailman. 
Better UI and easier maintenance would be nice, but they're in the 
middle of my list, not the top. I'm not going to move them to the top 
of MY list because YOU feel they ought to be there. And given my 
schedule, which is similar to Barry's and Brad's, and Toiko's and... 
(you get the point), there are always going to be more features than 
time.

I know when folks who are involved with open source projects say "hey! 
start coding!" it pisses people off. I sympathize but I sympathize from 
both sides, and the bottom line is that's the reality. It's not that 
developers aren't open to feedback or suggestions, because we all are, 
and knowing the core Mailman folks the way I do, I feel safe saying 
they agree with you and wish they could do it, too (but we all have 
lives, or pretend to).

But the bottom line is -- users who make suggestions can influence the 
priorities of the developers (and do), but when users attempt to 
dictate those priorities, it gets the developers just as pissed as 
"hey! start coding" pisses off the users. It goes both ways here.

It needs to be remembered that the coin of the realm in an open source 
project is sweat equity. If you invest in the project with sweat equity 
(hours, code, donuts, resources, jolt cola) you get a say in setting 
the agenda and direction of the project. If you don't invest that time 
-- you're a spectator. And spectators can't change things, they can 
only attempt to convince someone who can to champion their cause. Which 
happens, but if it doesn't, that's not OUR fault as developers 
(although many leave in a huff claiming so), it's your fault for not 
putting more than talk into the bargain.

that's life. None of us are paid to do this. And most of us not only 
have full-time (or more) jobs, but spouses, children, lives, houses, 
lawns and all those other things do, just like all of the users do -- 
except we ALSO try to fit working on this code into our lives as well, 
because it's important to us. And there's a lot to do, and way too few 
people around putting time into doing it.

So it comes down to the reality that if you feel it HAS to be done, do 
it, or find someone to do it and pay them, or pay one of us to do it 
for the project, or something. Because that's how you set the agenda 
instead of complain about it. And if that sounds mean, sorry. Life 
doesn't always allow "live happily ever after" sugarcoating, and it 
serves no useful purpose here to pretend otherwise. I'm not bitching at 
a person, but at a situation, and you don't fix the situation by lying 
about it or avoiding it because it's unpleasant.

but the reality is simple: lots of needed work, few available 
development hours. Physics wins, and the only way to change that is to 
change the basics of that reality: take away features, rearrange their 
priority, or add resources to solve them. And unless you choose the 
latter, you're just one more voice in the hundreds asking for things to 
be done, and it's the ones doing the work that decide the priority.



From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Nov  6 00:32:08 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:32:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <6DDC3730-2F76-11D9-B3CB-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>
Message-ID: <BDB14D78.18080%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/5/2004 14:02, "Chuq Von Rospach" <chuqui at plaidworks.com> wrote:

> I know when folks who are involved with open source projects say "hey!
> start coding!" it pisses people off. I sympathize but I sympathize from
> both sides, and the bottom line is that's the reality. It's not that
> developers aren't open to feedback or suggestions, because we all are,
> and knowing the core Mailman folks the way I do, I feel safe saying
> they agree with you and wish they could do it, too (but we all have
> lives, or pretend to).

And, for many projects, there are many of us who definitely should NOT be
asked to code.  The intersection of project and those of us in the category
varies.

I should never be asked to code in C (or C++).  I don't like C (and I've
never written any C to execute in the Unix/Linux environment).  Until
sometime shortly after 1995, I could still say "I've been around computers
more than twice as long as C has."  I did become reasonably OK with C and
C++ in the Macintosh environment (pre-Carbon) but put it aside, and I can't
even sensibly be asked to do C (C++, Objective C) in the current Mac
environment.

Of course, Mailman is in Python...that's a different situation.  But will a
single-binary Mailman still be in Python?

Some people who shouldn't code should document, instead.  Lots of projects
could use that (including commercial ones).  Or coordinate.

  --John




From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Nov  6 00:36:20 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 15:36:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] All recipients refused: address family not
	supported
In-Reply-To: <001101c4c35b$1ec31c40$0a011eac@mimir>
Message-ID: <BDB14E74.18082%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/5/2004 9:15, "Luke Miller" <millerlu at integraonline.com> wrote:

> 
> 
> I have been getting an interesting error on one of the lists on my server.
> The rest of the lists appear to work fine.  This same error appears the last
> few times someone has tried to send to this list.  The list owner reports that
> no one is getting any messages from the list.  Here are the log entries I
> found:
> 
> 
> 
> post:
> 
> Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) post to LIST from email at domain.com, size=812, 1
> failures
> 
> 
> 
> smtp:
> 
> Nov 03 19:18:25 2004 (19605) All recipients refused: (1, 'address family not
> supported')
> 
>                  
> 
> I am running Mailman version 2.0.8 on Solaris (sparc), my MTA is qmail.
> 
> Does anyone have any ideas?

Does either all or none of your installation (Solaris, qmail, Mailman 2.0.8
and the related Python, etc) support IPV6?

A mix of support and non-support could be troubling.

  --John


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov  6 00:53:07 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:53:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <opsgzwvdzguvpchu@quark>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051553070765f7ffb964@msapiro>

Asbj?rn Ulsberg wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:02:11 -0700, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
>> The text in the "info" box is not HTML despite the confusing
>> documentation. It is text only. Any included "<", ">" or "&"
>> characters are escaped.

The above statement is more or less correct for 2.1.4, but not for 2.1.5

>
>Although I have not edited this page myself, I understand it so as the  
>text has not been in HTML in any way. Plain text has been entered, but  
>still non-ASCII characters have been double-escaped. Why they are escaped  
>in the first place is a mystery; why they are escaped twice is  
>incomprihensible.

See
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=870028&group_id=103&atid=100103
for more info on this issue.

>> You can replace the entire template as above if you wish. See
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp
>> for info about editing other templates beyond the three that can be
>> edited this way.
>
>Okay, thanks. I don't understand the procedure quite well, though. If I  
>edit <what?>, will I be able to change the outputed HTML and CSS and thus  
>be able to change the look of (all) the Mailman pages (including the  
>archives)?

I don't think I can explain this process better than the FAQ article,
but the Mailman installation contains a templates/ directory with many
national language subdirectories which in turn contain templates for
many (but not yet all) Mailman generated e-mails and web pages. For
example, there is a listinfo.html file (in each language) which is the
template for the listinfo page.

You can modify these and place modified templates in one of three
places (don't modify the original files) as described in the FAQ
depending on whether the modified template should be used for a single
list, for all lists in a single domain or site wide. By so doing, you
can change the look of many pages including the archives, but not the
list admin pages or the user options login page for example.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Nov  6 00:55:49 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 08:55:49 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <BDAF5867.63C4%allen@circleofa.com>
References: <BDAF5867.63C4%allen@circleofa.com>
Message-ID: <418C1305.90202@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

> would like to be able to unsubscribe them by e-mail using an admin password,
> such as:
> 
>     unsubscribe joe at aol.com pwd=AdminPwd
> 
> Reason: I want to partially automate the unsub process using AppleScript.

I wonder if AppleScript can automate web access. If you can use wget, 
then you can unsub a user like this:

$ wget 
'http://www.example.com/mailman/options/yourlist/joe at example.net&unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=AdminPwd'

Cheers,
-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov  6 01:17:14 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 01:17:14 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding
 question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <BDB14D78.18080%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BDB14D78.18080%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <p0600206ebdb1c83db97b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:32 PM -0800 2004-11-05, John W. Baxter wrote:

>  Of course, Mailman is in Python...that's a different situation.  But will a
>  single-binary Mailman still be in Python?

	If you want a single-binary version, go to your OS vendor and see 
if they have a pre-built package which you can install.  I sincerely 
doubt that the Mailman project is ever going to ship anything other 
than a source-code based system.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From chuqui at plaidworks.com  Sat Nov  6 01:47:13 2004
From: chuqui at plaidworks.com (Chuq Von Rospach)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 16:47:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <BDB14D78.18080%jwblist@olympus.net>
References: <BDB14D78.18080%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <65FF2062-2F8D-11D9-8136-000D93C23532@plaidworks.com>

of course, we're also desperate for people to document... that's 
another common request -- better docs.




On Nov 5, 2004, at 3:32 PM, John W. Baxter wrote:

> Some people who shouldn't code should document, instead.  Lots of 
> projects
> could use that (including commercial ones).  Or coordinate.
>



From allen at circleofa.com  Sat Nov  6 02:00:57 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2004 17:00:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <418C1305.90202@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <BDB16249.679E%allen@circleofa.com>

Applescript can use "do shell script" to access shell commands. I don't seem
to have wget on my OS 10.3.5 system; can "curl" do the job?

I tried running it; it returned the HTML for the page, looking like it is
halfway there. I tried entering the URL you gave (with appropriate values
substituted), but it seems to call up the member options page with
everything from the user's address on as the user's address. That is, it
says, "Yourlist list: Member Options for
joe at 4example.net&unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=AdminPwd" at the top of the
page. It does not seem to understand anything after that address. Is
something missing? 

This approach seems really promising; I hope we can work out the kinks.

On 11/5/04 3:55 PM, "Tokio Kikuchi" <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> wrote:

> wget 
> 'http://www.example.com/mailman/options/yourlist/joe at example.net&unsub=1&unsub
> confirm=1&password=AdminPwd'

-- 
Your companion on the journey,
Allen Watson

The Circle of Atonement, P.O. Box 4238, W. Sedona, AZ 86340
<http://www.circleofa.com>
"Whom you forgive is free, and what you give you share. Forgive the sins
your brother thinks he has committed, and all the guilt you think you see in
him." (A Course in Miracles, T-19.IV(D.i).15:9-10)






From asbjorn at tigerstaden.no  Sat Nov  6 02:15:17 2004
From: asbjorn at tigerstaden.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?=)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 02:15:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Encoding problems
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411051553070765f7ffb964@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411051553070765f7ffb964@msapiro>
Message-ID: <opsg0q3rsxuvpchu@quark>

On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 15:53:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

>>> The text in the "info" box is not HTML despite the confusing
>>> documentation. It is text only. Any included "<", ">" or "&"
>>> characters are escaped.
>
> The above statement is more or less correct for 2.1.4, but not for 2.1.5

Okay. Perhaps an upgrade is a good solution, then?

> See
> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=870028&group_id=103&atid=100103
> for more info on this issue.

It describes the problem perfectly, and hopefully it's fixed in 2.1.5.  
I'll try it out.

> I don't think I can explain this process better than the FAQ article,
> but the Mailman installation contains a templates/ directory with many
> national language subdirectories which in turn contain templates for
> many (but not yet all) Mailman generated e-mails and web pages. For
> example, there is a listinfo.html file (in each language) which is the
> template for the listinfo page.

Okay. Thanks for the information.

-- 
Asbj?rn Ulsberg         -=|=-        asbjornu at hotmail.com
?He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away?


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov  6 02:34:29 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 2004 17:34:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <BDB16249.679E%allen@circleofa.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411051734290281adcb65f6@msapiro>

Allen Watson wrote:

>Applescript can use "do shell script" to access shell commands. I don't seem
>to have wget on my OS 10.3.5 system; can "curl" do the job?
>
>I tried running it; it returned the HTML for the page, looking like it is
>halfway there. I tried entering the URL you gave (with appropriate values
>substituted), but it seems to call up the member options page with
>everything from the user's address on as the user's address. That is, it
>says, "Yourlist list: Member Options for
>joe at 4example.net&unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=AdminPwd" at the top of the
>page. It does not seem to understand anything after that address. Is
>something missing? 
>
>This approach seems really promising; I hope we can work out the kinks.

The first & should be ?

http://www.example.com/mailman/options/test_2/joe at example.net?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=AdminPwd

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Sat Nov  6 19:10:43 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:10:43 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but any subscriber
	can write!
In-Reply-To: <p06002041bdaf20726531@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <418975B6.60202@adinet.com.uy> <p06002041bdaf20726531@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <418D13A3.4040508@adinet.com.uy>

Brad Knowles escribi?:

> At 9:20 PM -0300 2004-11-03, Arlequ?n wrote:
> 
>>  It's an announce-only list. I don't want other subscribers to post.
>>  Buy if any subscriber writes a message to newsletter at mydomain.com the
>>  message is posted...!
> 
> 
>     See the Mailman FAQ at <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>,
> question 3.11.  See also question 6.11.
> 
Thanks Brad.

Actually, I don't have acces to a freshh Mailman installation. I can
only administer MailMan through its web interface.

Reading the FAQ 3.11 section, I still can't find the way to "Disable
mnthly passowrd reminders".

How can I?
-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262



From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Sat Nov  6 19:51:02 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 15:51:02 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Approved header"?
Message-ID: <418D1D16.7070101@adinet.com.uy>

Hello.

I was reading the 3.11 Mailman FAQ Section and I quote:

`How to post to the announcement list: [......] A more secure
alternative is for your approved posters to add an Approved header to
their postings as a header, or as the first line of the post.?

Well, the poster in my environment uses Mozilla Mail 1.7.3 to post
messages and I don't know how to customize Mozilla headers.

On the other hand.... I can't figure out how's that thing of using a
`first line of the post?. Every thing I post in the message body will be
 delivered to all subscribers!, won't it?

TIA
-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262



From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Sat Nov  6 20:14:17 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 16:14:17 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Approved header" ?
Message-ID: <418D2289.8080707@adinet.com.uy>

Hello.

I was reading the 3.11 Mailman FAQ Section and I quote:

`How to post to the announcement list: [......] A more secure
alternative is for your approved posters to add an Approved header to
their postings as a header, or as the first line of the post.?

Well, the poster in my environment uses Mozilla Mail 1.7.3 to post
messages and I don't know how to customize Mozilla headers.

On the other hand.... I can't figure out how's that thing of using a
`first line of the post?. Every thing I post in the message body will be
 delivered to all subscribers!, won't it?

TIA
-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262





From allen at circleofa.com  Sat Nov  6 21:51:30 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Sat, 06 Nov 2004 12:51:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Admin unsubscribe members by e-mail
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411051734290281adcb65f6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDB27952.6969%allen@circleofa.com>

On 11/5/04 5:34 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Allen Watson wrote:
> 
>> Applescript can use "do shell script" to access shell commands. I don't seem
>> to have wget on my OS 10.3.5 system; can "curl" do the job?
>> 
>> I tried running it; it returned the HTML for the page, looking like it is
>> halfway there. I tried entering the URL you gave (with appropriate values
>> substituted), but it seems to call up the member options page with
>> everything from the user's address on as the user's address. That is, it
>> says, "Yourlist list: Member Options for
>> joe at 4example.net&unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1&password=AdminPwd" at the top of the
>> page. It does not seem to understand anything after that address. Is
>> something missing?
>> 
>> This approach seems really promising; I hope we can work out the kinks.
> 
> The first & should be ?
> 
> http://www.example.com/mailman/options/test_2/joe at example.net?unsub=1&unsubcon
> firm=1&password=AdminPwd
> 
Yes! That works. Thanks a million; I will write me an AppleScript that will
let me select an e-mail address, run the script, and cause that person to be
unsubscribed. And as I manage six lists, it will let me select from a list
of six names. 

-- 
Your companion on the journey,
Allen Watson

The Circle of Atonement, P.O. Box 4238, W. Sedona, AZ 86340
<http://www.circleofa.com>
"Whom you forgive is free, and what you give you share. Forgive the sins
your brother thinks he has committed, and all the guilt you think you see in
him." (A Course in Miracles, T-19.IV(D.i).15:9-10)






From steph_meng at yahoo.co.uk  Sun Nov  7 02:23:25 2004
From: steph_meng at yahoo.co.uk (stephen m)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 01:23:25 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating messages via email
Message-ID: <20041107012325.25597.qmail@web60901.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I am a new user, so I have a simple question :>

I have searched and looked at the help, but I can't
find how to moderate messages via email. For example,
if I have no access to the web, but can still receive
email, can I do those admin tasks of
edit/accept/delete messages via email?

Thank you for your help,
Steph


	
	
		
___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com


From web_worker at mosaic.org.nz  Sun Nov  7 03:32:02 2004
From: web_worker at mosaic.org.nz (Michael Adams)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 15:32:02 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating messages via email
In-Reply-To: <20041107012325.25597.qmail@web60901.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20041107012325.25597.qmail@web60901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <418D8922.3020501@mosaic.org.nz>

stephen m wrote:

>Hello,
>
>I am a new user, so I have a simple question :>
>
>I have searched and looked at the help, but I can't
>find how to moderate messages via email. For example,
>if I have no access to the web, but can still receive
>email, can I do those admin tasks of
>edit/accept/delete messages via email?
>
>Thank you for your help,
>Steph
>  
>
If you really don't have access to the web how can you administer your 
mailing list???
Try clicking this link
    http://www.google.com/.
If you truly don't have web access then tell your boss that you need it 
to perform your duties administering the mailing list.

Michael



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov  7 04:19:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:19:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but any
	subscribercan write!
In-Reply-To: <418D13A3.4040508@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411061919020296b184eeaa@msapiro>

Arlequ?n wrote:
>
>Actually, I don't have acces to a freshh Mailman installation. I can
>only administer MailMan through its web interface.
>
>Reading the FAQ 3.11 section, I still can't find the way to "Disable
>mnthly passowrd reminders".
>
>How can I?

It is the first option in the Notifications section of the lists
General Options page. It's called send_reminders. If it isn't there,
then cPanel has changed things and you'll have to address your inquiry
to cPanel.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov  7 04:46:00 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 19:46:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Approved header" ?
In-Reply-To: <418D2289.8080707@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411061946000031c7cf9fbf@msapiro>

Arlequ?n wrote:
>
>On the other hand.... I can't figure out how's that thing of using a
>`first line of the post?. Every thing I post in the message body will be
> delivered to all subscribers!, won't it?

No. If you put the

Approved: <password>

line as the first line of the body , Mailman will recognize it as the
"header" and remove it from the body. Follow it with a blank line
because the line following the Approved: line is removed too (in
Mailman 2.1.4 anyway).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov  7 06:11:48 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 21:11:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderating messages via email
In-Reply-To: <20041107012325.25597.qmail@web60901.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411062111480921c7cfa369@msapiro>

stephen m wrote:
>
>I have searched and looked at the help, but I can't
>find how to moderate messages via email. For example,
>if I have no access to the web, but can still receive
>email, can I do those admin tasks of
>edit/accept/delete messages via email?

The e-mail command interface is for user functions like (un)subscribe
and retrieving/changing password and opions. There really is no e-mail
administrative interface.

That said, if you have your mailman set to validate posts based on
envelope sender (USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes in mm_cfg.py) and you have
your list set to send immediate notification of pending posts, you can
"approve" a post by e-mail by resending the post portion of the
approval notice to the list. I.e. you send the original post to the
list with envelope sender = you. This will result in the original post
going to the list without further approval assuming you can post
without approval.

This will work for posts from non-members and moderated members. It
won't work for posts with "implicit destination" or "too many
recipients" unless you also add the list as a To: or Cc: or delete
recipients from the To: and/or Cc: to prevent the post from being held
again.

Also, while this will result in a copy of the post to the list, the
original will still be held for approval until it is deleted via the
admindb web interface.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brenno at dewinter.com  Sun Nov  7 11:46:47 2004
From: brenno at dewinter.com (Brenno J.S.A.A.F. de Winter)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:46:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem with Mailman e-mail delivery
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411051310130781d104de3a@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411051310130781d104de3a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1099824407.2288.3.camel@localhost>


> Since you're working with a Debian package, you're probably better off
> seeking help from Debian resources.
Checkperms were ok indeed, so I'll head off to the Debian resources.

Cheers,

Brenno.
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From veepster at hotmail.com  Sun Nov  7 14:12:39 2004
From: veepster at hotmail.com (veep veep)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 13:12:39 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest issue
Message-ID: <BAY21-F28KRfcjcMzfo00013d92@hotmail.com>

Some of my list members get their digests in the 'message from user on date' 
format instead of 'message 1', 'message 2', etc.

Their first message is a blank message not listed in the list of topics 
'message from unknown on unknown'.

The problem is these subscribers never get the full list of messages. It's 
usually one message and the digest issue ends..

Any ideas on why this happens?

vp

_________________________________________________________________
Hey there NRIs!  Desi news, films, ?n more! http://www.msn.co.in/nri/ Stay 
in the loop!



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov  7 18:33:39 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 09:33:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] digest issue
In-Reply-To: <BAY21-F28KRfcjcMzfo00013d92@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041107093339082843ce9a43@msapiro>

veep veep wrote:

>Some of my list members get their digests in the 'message from user on date' 
>format instead of 'message 1', 'message 2', etc.
>
>Their first message is a blank message not listed in the list of topics 
>'message from unknown on unknown'.
>
>The problem is these subscribers never get the full list of messages. It's 
>usually one message and the digest issue ends..
>
>Any ideas on why this happens?

Without seeing an actual raw digest from your list, I can't say for
sure, but I think the most likely answer is that the member's MUA
doesn't understand the mime type multipart/digest.

The structure of a MIME format Digest is as follows:

Overall message is miltipart/mixed

Subpart 1 is text/plain - the list boiler plate

Subpart 2 is text/plain - the TOC of the digest

Subpart 3 is multipart/digest

Subpart 3.1 is message/rfc822 - the first message

Subpart 3.2 is message/rfc822 - the second message

...

Subpart 4 is text/plain the list digest footer if any

I don't use a digest "header" so I'm not sure how it is sent, but it
may be added to the end of subpart 1 or to the beginning of subpart 2
or it may be an additional text/plain part between subparts 1 and 2.

If the member's MUA understands MIME, but doesn't understand
Content-Type: multipart/digest, it could possibly result in what the
member sees. If the member has the ability somehow to view the
"source" of the message, does it look like the above structure or is
the message truncated there too?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From joel at korgsit.com  Sun Nov  7 06:29:24 2004
From: joel at korgsit.com (Joel Plane)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:29:24 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] help
Message-ID: <418DB2B4.8040709@korgsit.com>

how do i uninstall mailman completely?


From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Sun Nov  7 20:31:19 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2004 16:31:19 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Closed newsletter mailing list but any
	subscribercan write!
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411061919020296b184eeaa@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411061919020296b184eeaa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <418E7807.5050208@adinet.com.uy>

Mark Sapiro escribi?:

> Arlequ?n wrote:
> 
>>Actually, I don't have acces to a freshh Mailman installation. I can
>>only administer MailMan through its web interface.
>>
>>Reading the FAQ 3.11 section, I still can't find the way to "Disable
>>mnthly passowrd reminders".
>>
>>How can I?
> 
> 
> It is the first option in the Notifications section of the lists
> General Options page. It's called send_reminders. If it isn't there,
> then cPanel has changed things and you'll have to address your inquiry
> to cPanel.
> 

Thank you very much, Mark. I've got it.
cPanel didn't change that. :)


-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262



From zainie at gmail.com  Mon Nov  8 00:32:47 2004
From: zainie at gmail.com (Zain Memon)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:32:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411051133140828d104de6a@msapiro>
References: <4b3984990411051000227f43b5@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC1722200411051133140828d104de6a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4b39849904110715322ca0a8b7@mail.gmail.com>

I wonder why they want me to put in mysql stuff. 

What is a "normal" value for the $relay_domains variable? 


On Fri, 5 Nov 2004 11:33:14 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Zain Memon wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> >I've tried sticking it into both /etc/aliases and
> >/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.My postfix $alias_maps variable
> >includes both these locations. Yeah, I've ran both newaliases and
> >genaliases. I've ran a postalias on both as well. Followed the
> >INSTALL, README, and README.POSTFIX down to the dot.
> >
> >For postfix, my $relay_domains variable is set to $transport_maps,
> >which is set to mysql:/etc/postfix/sql/transport (according to the
> >tutorial). Why the mysql:? Do I need to add any data into a MySQL
> >table?
> 
> Your getting beyond anything I know here, but "Why the mysql:?" would
> be my question. The how to you're following is integrating mysql for
> some purpose, but it is certainly not required for a basic Mailman
> installation which only requires an MTA (Postfix in your case) and
> Mailman plus a web server.
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
>


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov  8 00:59:16 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 15:59:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Much ado about relay
In-Reply-To: <4b39849904110715322ca0a8b7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041107155916042130257b35@msapiro>

Zain Memon wrote:

>I wonder why they want me to put in mysql stuff. 

It has something to do with using a mysql database to validate
something for Postfix or something. As I mentioned before, the How To
you are following is for something much more complicated than a
straightforward Mailman - Postfix installation.

>What is a "normal" value for the $relay_domains variable? 

$relay_domains is the domain(s) to which Postfix will relay mail. The
normal value would be the default ($mydestination) which I think means
that Postfix will accept mail from the outside world only for delivery
locally. I assume this is appropriate for a Mailman - Postfix
installation, but as I said previously, this is really beyond what I
know about.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 07:13:52 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 22:13:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Message-ID: <20041108061352.42242.qmail@web54008.mail.yahoo.com>

salam

			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 09:01:33 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 00:01:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] zzzzzzzzzzz
Message-ID: <20041108080133.28725.qmail@web54005.mail.yahoo.com>

szzdxDzxdfzfcsxcfcxzzxcsdfsdzvvccxzcvzxcvvcccccccccccc

 
 
asaasdasdrfadgfafgsdgvadsfgvadfgvadfgdag
 





			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From per at berggasoline.co.za  Mon Nov  8 09:44:07 2004
From: per at berggasoline.co.za (Per Qvindesland)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 10:44:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation
Message-ID: <200411081044.07842.per@berggasoline.co.za>

Hello Guys and Girls,

Ok I admit it I am stupid but who the heck to i sucessfully install Mailman on 
a RH 8.0 machine running cyrus for pop and imap and Postfix for smtp, I have 
dowloaded a script that I found a link on from Postscripts web site called 
postfix-to-mailman.py but when I am trying to run it it stops with a messsage 
saying "LOCAL not set" from what I understand that this actually means that 
there it can't find postfix? anybody with any idea on how to resolve this and 
if there is perhaps another way of installing mailman without to much hassle.

Kind regards
Per Qvindesland
This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mail transmission cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message, which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. 



From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:05:06 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:05:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aaaa
Message-ID: <20041108110506.12440.qmail@web54010.mail.yahoo.com>

sdsdsddfsdfafggfasfdsgagsdfgsdg
 
 

			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
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From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:27:54 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:27:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aaaa
Message-ID: <20041108112754.14801.qmail@web54007.mail.yahoo.com>

dddddddd

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:32:55 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:32:55 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] aaa
Message-ID: <20041108113255.36510.qmail@web54009.mail.yahoo.com>

fffffff

			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:35:20 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:35:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] font
Message-ID: <20041108113520.37158.qmail@web54009.mail.yahoo.com>

????
????
?? ????

			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:40:34 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:40:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <20041108114034.20139.qmail@web54003.mail.yahoo.com>

??????? ?? ??????????

			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 12:57:56 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 03:57:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I want to know i can attach a file
Message-ID: <20041108115756.22613.qmail@web54010.mail.yahoo.com>

  
			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 13:04:19 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 04:04:19 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] please dont read this mesaage,I'm really sorry
Message-ID: <20041108120419.37429.qmail@web54004.mail.yahoo.com>





			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 13:31:32 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 04:31:32 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] i'm sorry,it's atest
Message-ID: <20041108123132.29405.qmail@web54007.mail.yahoo.com>

  
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 
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From vaez_ha at yahoo.com  Mon Nov  8 14:49:06 2004
From: vaez_ha at yahoo.com (VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif))
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 05:49:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] thanks for all
Message-ID: <20041108134906.57179.qmail@web54003.mail.yahoo.com>

  
			
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
 Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com

From mikej at confluenttech.com  Mon Nov  8 15:21:08 2004
From: mikej at confluenttech.com (Michael G. Jung)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 09:21:08 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Traceback in update.py
Message-ID: <9D7F0DF3FB16D41184010050DA90E0000181B7F0@neo.confluentasp.local>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 2:21 PM
> To: Michael G. Jung; mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Traceback in update.py
> 
> 
> Michael G. Jung wrote:
> >
> >I've searched around the archive but have not found 
> reference to this.
> >I attempted to upgrade from version 2.1.4 to version 2.1.5.  When the
> >update proceedure runs I get this traceback.  I'll be happy to supply
> >any additional information.
> >
> >OS: FreeBSD 4.10-RELEASE-P3
> >Python: 2.3.3
> >
> >Any advise on how to proceed would be much appreciated.
> >
> >Updating Mailman 2.1.4 pending.pck database
> >updating old qfiles
> >Traceback (most recent call last):
> >  File "bin/update", line 780, in ?
> >    errors = main()
> >  File "bin/update", line 709, in main
> >    update_qfiles()
> >  File "bin/update", line 441, in update_qfiles
> >    msg, data = dequeue(filebase)
> >  File "bin/update", line 497, in dequeue
> >    msg = cPickle.load(msgfp)
> >
> 
> Was there an error message?
> 

Sorry, yes - didn't mean to leave that off!

EOFError

--mikej

> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Nov  8 17:18:07 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:18:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] {Oink!!} Pig at the wedding question/diatribe
In-Reply-To: <418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0411050949490.18663-100000@paule.corp.trusecure.net.>
	<418BBA02.40804@bard.edu>
	<1099675428.32558.85.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
	<418BDDE7.7010800@bard.edu>
Message-ID: <1099930686.3910.15.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2004-11-05 at 15:09, Stewart Dean wrote:
> I'd think it wouldn't have taken any longer to design the GNU packaging tools and process 
> to build single-binary, host-portable output.  A lot of thought has gone into Mailman...a 
> little more into in packaging would have boosted its acceptance enormously

Most open source projects, mailman included, are designed to run on wide
variety of systems, each with their own peculiar installation and
run-time behavior. In fact your desire for a GNU tool to produce a
portable binary installation is exactly what Mailman uses, it is called
"autoconf" but is more familiar to people as "configure", the script
that executes first to figure out how to make and install the package on
a given system. No, its not a GUI tool, but its not hard to use and to
be honest it's probably the closest we'll ever get to a GNU packaging
tool for a host of reasons.

Because packaging across a wide variety of systems is hard/impossible to
do in a portable manner the responsibility for producing binary packages
falls not to the open source project but rather the OS vendor. The OS
vendor knows how to produce binary packages. All this means is you want
to go to your vendor for a pre-built binary package with easy
installation, not the open source project. In the Linux domain OS vendor
equates to "distribution" (e.g. Red Hat, SuSE, gentoo, debian, etc.) For
other commercial OS's such as Sun Solaris, IBM AIX, HP hpux, etc. you go
to the company you bought your OS from. Or you do the installation
yourself with "./configure; make install"
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Mon Nov  8 18:15:16 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 11:15:16 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove an owner from the command line?
Message-ID: <1099934115.1854.79.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

I took over managing our mailman lists a few months ago and have become
pretty adept with the command line utilities.

Recently I got a request to remove the owner of a couple of our lists.

I know that I can do this from the web, but is there a way to remove
list owners from the command line?

Thanks

Jim Jones
-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From davidr at drbott.com  Mon Nov  8 22:54:07 2004
From: davidr at drbott.com (David Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 13:54:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Rejected messages do not always include the reason
	for rejection
Message-ID: <B6A25F85-31D0-11D9-9A19-000A95766D28@drbott.com>

I'm trying to identify a problem with pending moderator requests in 
Mailman 2.1.4 on Mac OS X Server 10.3.5.  Before I dive into the source 
(I've looked around a bit, and am slightly intimidated), I thought I 
would ask around here.  This appears to have been happening since we 
got it installed, only just now have discovered the behavior.

When using the <http://listserver.domain.tld/mailman/admindb/listname> 
interface, all rejected message responses indicate "No reason given."

When using the 
<http://listserver.domain.tld/mailman/admindb/listname?msgid=77> 
interface, a rejected message gives the explanation for rejection in 
the response.

This only appears to apply when rejecting messages.  Deferred message 
responses give the appropriate explanation.

Mac OS X Server 10.3.5, Mailman 2.1.4

What am I missing here?

case 1 response:
--------
> Your request to the ListTest mailing list
>
>     Posting of your message titled "rejection testing"
>
> has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
> following reason for rejecting your request:
>
> "No reason given"
>
> Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
> at:
>
>     listtest-owner at listserver.domain.tld

case 2 response:
--------
> Your request to the ListTest mailing list
>
>     Posting of your message titled "rejection testing 3"
>
> has been rejected by the list moderator.  The moderator gave the
> following reason for rejecting your request:
>
> "Non-members are not allowed to post messages to this list."
>
> Any questions or comments should be directed to the list administrator
> at:
>
>     listtest-owner at listserver.domain.tld


David Reynolds
Dr. Bott LLC
<http://www.drbott.com>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 01:07:30 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:07:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I want to know i can attach a file
In-Reply-To: <20041108115756.22613.qmail@web54010.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411081607300234d2f45ec8@msapiro>

To VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif)

Your various test posts to the mailman-users list aside from annoying
people are at best only going to tell you how the content filtering is
set up on this list. They aren't going to tell you anything about how
content filtering can be set up in general.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From will at willspc.net  Tue Nov  9 02:27:26 2004
From: will at willspc.net (Will Nordmeyer)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:27:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator not receiving notifications
Message-ID: <200411090127.iA91RQs22975@ns2.wnahosting.com>

Hi,

 

I've got a list where the moderator is not receiving list submission
notifications.

 

Any suggestions?



From alexis at tpys.com.ar  Tue Nov  9 02:43:27 2004
From: alexis at tpys.com.ar (Alexis)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 22:43:27 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing domain matching
Message-ID: <20041109014359.6E3731E4003@bag.python.org>

Hi all, is there any way to prevent some domains to be disabled/removed by
bounce processing?


Thanks.




From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue Nov  9 05:33:15 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:33:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erasing archived message 
Message-ID: <20041109043234.M15316@enabled.com>

FreeBSD-4.9
mailman-2.1.5


can somebody please send me to a link or tutorial that shows how to remove a
message from the archives please?

cheers,

Noah



From russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu  Tue Nov  9 06:26:36 2004
From: russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu (Russ Pagenkopf)
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:26:36 -0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Surgemail, FreeBSD and Mailman
Message-ID: <4190550C.5000908@uas.alaska.edu>

Hi all,

Hope this isn't too simple a problem; either I can't wrap my head around 
it or I can't find it in the documentation/faq anywhere.

Anyways, I'm running FreeBSD 4.9, Python 2.3_1, Surgemail 2.1c7 and 
Mailman 2.1.5. Compiled fine and did the initial INSTALL steps. Have run 
check_perm a few time and have stopped getting errors.

Created a new list via the web page called testlist and added my email 
address via the account management screen. When I went to send a test 
email to testlist at worldprism.net I got an error message in response from 
the local mail server.

---------------------------------
This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
each recipient was rejected.

     Recipient: <testlist at worldprism dot net>
     Reason:    No such user (testlist) -ERR testlist at worldprism dot 
net not found

Please reply to <postmaster at uas dot alaska dot edu>
if you feel this message to be in error.

Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.uas.alaska.edu
Received-From-MTA:dns; [137.229.198.76]
Arrival-Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:17:31 -0900

Remote-Recipient: rfc822;<testlist at worldprism.net>
Diagnostic-Code: smtp;551 SMTP-Deliver:BadRecipient
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.6
Remote-MTA: DNS;mail.worldprism.net
Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:17:38 -0900

Subject: test
From: Russ Pagenkopf <russ.pagenkopf at uas dot alaska dot edu>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:17:31 -0900
To: testlist at worldprism.net
------------------------------------------------------------

Suggestions?

Thanks,
Russ Pagenkopf


From skandari at ie.sharif.edu  Tue Nov  9 08:27:01 2004
From: skandari at ie.sharif.edu (Eskandari (82103902))
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:57:01 +0330 (IRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] simple test
Message-ID: <53710.81.31.166.251.1099985221.squirrel@81.31.166.251>

simple test


From skandari at ie.sharif.edu  Tue Nov  9 08:24:00 2004
From: skandari at ie.sharif.edu (Eskandari (82103902))
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:54:00 +0330 (IRST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how a group is defined?
Message-ID: <53402.81.31.166.251.1099985040.squirrel@81.31.166.251>

I wanna know how the users identify the mail is received from group rather
than an indivisual?
any idea?


From thomasc at belgaboard.com  Tue Nov  9 11:52:05 2004
From: thomasc at belgaboard.com (Thomas Carpentier)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:52:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Surgemail, FreeBSD and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <4190550C.5000908@uas.alaska.edu>
References: <4190550C.5000908@uas.alaska.edu>
Message-ID: <p06110403bdb650ff9415@[10.10.10.99]>

>Created a new list via the web page called testlist and added my 
>email address via the account management screen. When I went to send 
>a test email to testlist at worldprism.net I got an error message in 
>response from the local mail server.
>
>---------------------------------
>This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
>
>Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
>The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
>each recipient was rejected.
>
>     Recipient: <testlist at worldprism dot net>
>     Reason:    No such user (testlist) -ERR testlist at worldprism 
>dot net not found

[...]

You have a problem with the integration of mailman into surgemail. I 
can't tell you more about it, I don't know surgemail.


From by at xs4all.nl  Tue Nov  9 12:58:29 2004
From: by at xs4all.nl (by at xs4all.nl)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:58:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail disappears
Message-ID: <000d01c4c653$6d890ce0$9700000a@elmo>

Hello,

We have exacty the same problem as described in:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-developers at python.org/msg07362.html

[quote]

I am having trouble sending e-mail to my mailing list...I created a list and

I have been using it for about 6 months, but all of a sudden, when I e-mail
a

post...it just disappears and doesn't even appear on the moderator's page.

[/quote]

We also have a whole bunch of mailing lists for 1 domain that suddenly have
stopped working. Mail sent to them simply disappears.

However, when creating a new mailing list under the same domainname, it
works fine.

We are running redhat 7.3 / Cpanel / Exim



From jwt at onjapan.net  Tue Nov  9 13:25:12 2004
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 21:25:12 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove an owner from the command line?
In-Reply-To: <1099934115.1854.79.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>
References: <1099934115.1854.79.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>
Message-ID: <670C8CB7-324A-11D9-9757-0003936A9B5C@onjapan.net>

On Nov 9, 2004, at 02:15, G James Jones wrote:

> Recently I got a request to remove the owner of a couple of our lists.
>
> I know that I can do this from the web, but is there a way to remove
> list owners from the command line?

You can use bin/withlist to manipulate the mailing list object.  Use 
the command line option to lock the list, use standard Python syntax to 
modify the object to suit (getting clues about variable names from the 
web interface and Defaults.py), and then Save() the modified object.  
(Making backup copies of the list object before making modifications is 
always a good idea.)

The 'owner' variable is a list of strings.

$ bin/withlist -l mylist
 >>> print m.owner
['owner1 at example.com', 'owner2 at example.com']
 >>> del m.owner[m.owner.index('owner1 at example.com')]
 >>> print m.owner
['owner2 at example.com']
 >>> m.owner.insert(0, 'newkid at example.com')
 >>> print m.owner
['newkid at example.com', 'owner2 at example.com']
 >>> m.Save()
 >>> {ctrl-D}

Run 'bin/withlist --h' for a description of how you can use the -r 
switch to make that into a command line script you can call with 
withlist.  (There are many examples in the mailman-users archives.)

You can also use bin/config_list (check both the -i and -o switches) to 
get human readable/editable information, rather than bin/withlist's 
more "programatic" style.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov  9 13:58:28 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:58:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail disappears
In-Reply-To: <000d01c4c653$6d890ce0$9700000a@elmo>
References: <000d01c4c653$6d890ce0$9700000a@elmo>
Message-ID: <p0600208fbdb66f26d9b9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:58 PM +0100 2004-11-09, <by at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>  We also have a whole bunch of mailing lists for 1 domain that suddenly have
>  stopped working. Mail sent to them simply disappears.

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and look at question 3.14.

>  We are running redhat 7.3 / Cpanel / Exim

	See also question 6.11.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Tue Nov  9 15:57:06 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 08:57:06 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Surgemail, FreeBSD and Mailman
In-Reply-To: <20041109110100.0397D1E4023@bag.python.org>
References: <20041109110100.0397D1E4023@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1100012226.2297.8.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: Russ Pagenkopf <russ.pagenkopf at uas.alaska.edu>
> To: Mailman-Users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Surgemail, FreeBSD and Mailman
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:26:36 -0900
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Hope this isn't too simple a problem; either I can't wrap my head around 
> it or I can't find it in the documentation/faq anywhere.
> 
> Anyways, I'm running FreeBSD 4.9, Python 2.3_1, Surgemail 2.1c7 and 
> Mailman 2.1.5. Compiled fine and did the initial INSTALL steps. Have run 
> check_perm a few time and have stopped getting errors.
> 
> Created a new list via the web page called testlist and added my email 
> address via the account management screen. When I went to send a test 
> email to testlist at worldprism.net I got an error message in response from 
> the local mail server.
> 

I don't use Surgemail, but I get similar errors when using Postfix (our
MTA) if I don't set up the aliases in the postfix  mail alias file
(under linux, /etc/postfix/aliases) for the list that I created .

A typical alias for a test list might look like:

testlist:              "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post testlist"

testlist-admin:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin testlist"

testlist-bounces:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces
testlist"

testlist-confirm:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm
testlist"

testlist-join:         "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join testlist"

testlist-leave:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave testlist"

testlist-owner:        "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner testlist"

testlist-request:      "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request
testlist"

testlist-subscribe:    "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe
testlist"

testlist-unsubscribe:  "|/usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe
testlist"

After adding these entries, I have to execute the postfix newaliases
command to register them.

If I forget either step, I get very similar errors to the one below.

Hope this helps-

Jim Jones

> ---------------------------------
> This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:
> 
> Each of the following recipients was rejected by a remote mail server.
> The reasons given by the server are included to help you determine why
> each recipient was rejected.
> 
>      Recipient: <testlist at worldprism dot net>
>      Reason:    No such user (testlist) -ERR testlist at worldprism dot 
> net not found
> 
> Please reply to <postmaster at uas dot alaska dot edu>
> if you feel this message to be in error.
> 
> Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.uas.alaska.edu
> Received-From-MTA:dns; [137.229.198.76]
> Arrival-Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:17:31 -0900
> 
> Remote-Recipient: rfc822;<testlist at worldprism.net>
> Diagnostic-Code: smtp;551 SMTP-Deliver:BadRecipient
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.1.6
> Remote-MTA: DNS;mail.worldprism.net
> Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:17:38 -0900
> 
> Subject: test
> From: Russ Pagenkopf <russ.pagenkopf at uas dot alaska dot edu>
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:17:31 -0900
> To: testlist at worldprism.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Russ Pagenkopf
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________

-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Tue Nov  9 15:50:19 2004
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 15:50:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No web interface
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB6D@sea0620smail.abf.local>

Hi all,

I'm new to this list. My name is Ralph Utbult and I work'n'live in Sweden. My main occupation is fixing Windows (and users of it...). I run one *nix (Mandrake for the time) for mail.

My question:
Is it possible to use Mailman in a "simpler" way than subscribing via web? I would like to subscribe/unsubscribe via mail, as other list servers do.

Regards,

Ralph Utbult
Systemansvarig
ABF G?teborg

Bes?ksadress: S?dra All?gatan 1, 4:e v?n, G?teborg
Postadress: Olof Palmes Plats, 413 04  G?teborg

Telefon: 031-7743176
Mobil:   0706-743176
Fax:     031-7743105
E-post:  ralph.utbult at abf.se
ICQ:     108998663


From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Tue Nov  9 16:17:00 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 09:17:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove an owner from the command line?
In-Reply-To: <670C8CB7-324A-11D9-9757-0003936A9B5C@onjapan.net>
References: <1099934115.1854.79.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>
	<670C8CB7-324A-11D9-9757-0003936A9B5C@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <1100013420.2298.14.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 06:25, Jim Tittsler wrote:
> On Nov 9, 2004, at 02:15, G James Jones wrote:
> 
> > Recently I got a request to remove the owner of a couple of our lists.
> >
> > I know that I can do this from the web, but is there a way to remove
> > list owners from the command line?
> 
> You can use bin/withlist to manipulate the mailing list object.  Use 
> the command line option to lock the list, use standard Python syntax to 
> modify the object to suit (getting clues about variable names from the 
> web interface and Defaults.py), and then Save() the modified object.  
> (Making backup copies of the list object before making modifications is 
> always a good idea.)
> 
> The 'owner' variable is a list of strings.
> 
> $ bin/withlist -l mylist
>  >>> print m.owner
> ['owner1 at example.com', 'owner2 at example.com']
>  >>> del m.owner[m.owner.index('owner1 at example.com')]
>  >>> print m.owner
> ['owner2 at example.com']
>  >>> m.owner.insert(0, 'newkid at example.com')
>  >>> print m.owner
> ['newkid at example.com', 'owner2 at example.com']
>  >>> m.Save()
>  >>> {ctrl-D}
> 
> Run 'bin/withlist --h' for a description of how you can use the -r 
> switch to make that into a command line script you can call with 
> withlist.  (There are many examples in the mailman-users archives.)
> 

That looks like the stuff I was looking for.  I will give it a shot.

>
> You can also use bin/config_list (check both the -i and -o switches) to 
> get human readable/editable information, rather than bin/withlist's 
> more "programatic" style.

One question with using bin/config_list?  If I output the original
configuration with -o, then change the configuration (adding and/or
removing owners and moderators) and then use the modified config file
with bin/config_list -i to apply the new configuration back to the list,
will I damage anything?

config_list looks like an easier route until my python abilities get up
to being able to extend (using withlist) mailman for my personal needs.

I just want to make sure that importing a modified config over an
existing config isn't going to cause more headaches than it relieves.

Thanks for the prompt help.

Jim Jones
-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Tue Nov  9 13:59:22 2004
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:59:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erasing archived message
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411090754350.30498@seyyav.pair.com>


> FreeBSD-4.9
> mailman-2.1.5
>
>
> can somebody please send me to a link or tutorial that shows how to
> remove a message from the archives please?
>
> cheers,
>
> Noah

I'm not aware of link or tutorial for this.  To remove the a message from
the archives you need shell access to the server running mailman and
access the ~mailman/bin commands.

Edit the mbox file for the list to remove the message and run
~mailman/bin/arch to rebuild the archive.  Run arch with the --wipe option
to remove the original archive before rebuilding.

Sean


From Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu  Tue Nov  9 17:14:00 2004
From: Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu (Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:14:00 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <OF0BFB10F6.314A0EC6-ON06256F47.0058A7B4@wlc.edu>

 

We are considering implementing Mailman and I am working on testing it
out.  I have Mailman 2.1.4 installed on a Fedora Core 2 box and everything
seems to be configured fine except the MTA.  We have a Lotus Notes Domino
server and I am not sure what to configure to use this server.  Please
forgive the newbie question.

 

Thanks.



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 17:16:27 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:16:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erasing archived message
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411090754350.30498@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041109081627070332afc9da@msapiro>

Sean quoting Noah:
>>
>> can somebody please send me to a link or tutorial that shows how to
>> remove a message from the archives please?
>
>I'm not aware of link or tutorial for this.  To remove the a message from
>the archives you need shell access to the server running mailman and
>access the ~mailman/bin commands.
>
>Edit the mbox file for the list to remove the message and run
>~mailman/bin/arch to rebuild the archive.  Run arch with the --wipe option
>to remove the original archive before rebuilding.

This is all described in much more detail along with various caveats at
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 17:41:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 08:41:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how a group is defined?
In-Reply-To: <53402.81.31.166.251.1099985040.squirrel@81.31.166.251>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110908410303750516b17a@msapiro>

(82103902) Eskandari wrote:

>I wanna know how the users identify the mail is received from group rather
>than an indivisual?
>any idea?

The presence of RFC 2369 headers in the message.

The presence of a unquoted list header or footer such as the following
in the message.
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Sender: and Errors-To: headers and envelope from all with
listname-bounces address.

To: or Cc: to the list rather than the individual.

List identifier in the subject.

From: from the list instead of individual if list is "anonymous".

Some of the above (actually all but the Sender: etc.) depend on
optional properties of the list; the list identifier in the subject is
often present in off list replies, and any or all of the above could
be spoofed if someone really wanted to fool you.

If you're really concerned about spoofing, you could also look at
Received: headers and a few X-*: headers inserted by Mailman, but it's
probably easier to look in the list's archive if any and see if the
post is there.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 18:15:20 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:15:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No web interface
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB6D@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110909152007813f1dc3a1@msapiro>

Ralph Utbult" wrote:
>
>My question:
>Is it possible to use Mailman in a "simpler" way than subscribing via web? I would like to subscribe/unsubscribe via mail, as other list servers do.
>

Send blank e-mail with "Subject: help" to
mailman-users-request at python.org for a list of available e-mail
requests.

Also, you can subscribe by e-mailing listname-join at example.com or
listname-subscribe at example.com and leave by e-mailing
listname-leave at example.com or listname-unsubscribe at example.com.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 18:20:09 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 09:20:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove an owner from the command line?
In-Reply-To: <1100013420.2298.14.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411090920090859f4e97244@msapiro>

G James Jones wrote:
>
>One question with using bin/config_list?  If I output the original
>configuration with -o, then change the configuration (adding and/or
>removing owners and moderators) and then use the modified config file
>with bin/config_list -i to apply the new configuration back to the list,
>will I damage anything?

Depends what you mess up in the edit :-)

>config_list looks like an easier route until my python abilities get up
>to being able to extend (using withlist) mailman for my personal needs.
>
>I just want to make sure that importing a modified config over an
>existing config isn't going to cause more headaches than it relieves.

It won't if you only change what you want to be changed.

Note that with bin/config_list -i, you only have to input those
attributes you want to change. Everything else is unchanged.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Tue Nov  9 18:48:50 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 11:48:50 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I remove an owner from the command line?
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411090920090859f4e97244@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411090920090859f4e97244@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1100022529.2295.32.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 11:20, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> G James Jones wrote:
> >
> >One question with using bin/config_list?  If I output the original
> >configuration with -o, then change the configuration (adding and/or
> >removing owners and moderators) and then use the modified config file
> >with bin/config_list -i to apply the new configuration back to the list,
> >will I damage anything?
> 
> Depends what you mess up in the edit :-)
>

THAT'S a unix/linux/bsd thing... like "Will typing rm-rf hurt my Linux
install?" "It depends where you are when you do it."  =^)


> 
> >config_list looks like an easier route until my python abilities get up
> >to being able to extend (using withlist) mailman for my personal needs.
> >
> >I just want to make sure that importing a modified config over an
> >existing config isn't going to cause more headaches than it relieves.
> 
> It won't if you only change what you want to be changed.
> 

I tried it on a test channel and it seemed to work fine... so I
proceeded with the rest.

using bin/config_list was still clunky, but not as clunky as having to
change all of them through the web.  Thanks for the help.

withlist seems very promising.  Time to add "Go Ahead and Start Learning
Python Already!!!" to my growing todo list.  A couple of custom tools
could come in handy.


>
> Note that with bin/config_list -i, you only have to input those
> attributes you want to change. Everything else is unchanged.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From bescher at rsegroup.com  Tue Nov  9 20:15:42 2004
From: bescher at rsegroup.com (Bob Escher)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 13:15:42 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing message as a attachment
Message-ID: <002b01c4c690$82e08900$43c12145@rsegroup.com>

When I send a message out to a list
the footer always show up in outlook or outlook
express as a attachment. Is there a way to change this
to not show it as a attachment in the email

Thank you

Bob Escher




From admin2 at enabled.com  Tue Nov  9 20:47:20 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:47:20 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] erasing archived message (solved)
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041109081627070332afc9da@msapiro>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411090754350.30498@seyyav.pair.com>
	<PC172220041109081627070332afc9da@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041109194656.M15404@enabled.com>


> This is all described in much more detail along with various caveats 
> at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp


this is a perfect turtorial.  thanks for sending it along.

cheers,

Noah


> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov  9 21:07:04 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 12:07:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing message as a attachment
In-Reply-To: <002b01c4c690$82e08900$43c12145@rsegroup.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411091207040062575aae62@msapiro>

Bob Escher wrote:

>When I send a message out to a list
>the footer always show up in outlook or outlook
>express as a attachment. Is there a way to change this
>to not show it as a attachment in the email

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

See article 4.39.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From doctor at mcc.ac.uk  Tue Nov  9 21:55:28 2004
From: doctor at mcc.ac.uk (Mike Richardson)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 20:55:28 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP for list owner auth during creation
Message-ID: <20041109205528.GW10357@jadzia.mcc.ac.uk>

Has anyone done any work on modifying Mailman 2.1 so that when a user tries
to create a mailing list it authenticated them against an LDAP server and
uses an LDAP attribute such as 'mail' to populate the list owner address
field? 

It would also be nice to have a way of logging in as said list owner
(authenticating against LDAP) and getting a list owner screen showing all
the lists they own. 

Any helpful tips if/when I do it myself would be appreciated. 

Thanks

Mike
-- 
Mike Richardson
Messaging and Collaboration
Manchester Computing
Email: mike.richardson at manchester.ac.uk
*Plain text only please - attachments stripped on arrival*


From alexis at tpys.com.ar  Wed Nov 10 02:09:10 2004
From: alexis at tpys.com.ar (Alexis)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 22:09:10 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
Message-ID: <20041110010942.DBBA91E4002@bag.python.org>

Hi all, is there anyway to avoid account disable/remove by bounce processing
based on domains?

This is, we have announcement lists and some of our users have autorespond
messages and get disabled/removed from the lists, we want to avoid bounce
processing for our domain.

Thank you



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 02:59:40 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 17:59:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <20041110010942.DBBA91E4002@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC17222004110917594004841eda3a6c@msapiro>

Alexis wrote:

>Hi all, is there anyway to avoid account disable/remove by bounce processing
>based on domains?
>
>This is, we have announcement lists and some of our users have autorespond
>messages and get disabled/removed from the lists, we want to avoid bounce
>processing for our domain.

I'm confused.

Your post yesterday said:

>Hi all, is there any way to prevent some domains to be disabled/removed by
>bounce processing?

I thought this and your first paragraph above ask about not processing
bounces from specific members domains.

Your second paragraph above seems to ask about disabling bounce
processing for entire lists.

This latter is easy to do by list, just set bounce_processing to "No"
on the list's Bounce Processing page.

However, a list member's autoresponder normally doesn't result in a
recognized bounce. Are you sure that's the issue?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kornshell at solonet.co.id  Wed Nov 10 08:23:21 2004
From: kornshell at solonet.co.id (David)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:23:21 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make list as private, no more new milis
Message-ID: <4191C1E9.90505@solonet.co.id>

Dear all,

I am newbie here, I already setup my new mailman at RedHat 9.0 and 
successfull. But my question is how to make my mailman can't used by 
another and couldn't create new milis ? And also how to make to public 
if I changed my mind ?



Thank you.


From by at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 10 10:58:39 2004
From: by at xs4all.nl (by at xs4all.nl)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:58:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No moderator requests after 2.1.5 upgrade
Message-ID: <000901c4c70b$daa06950$9700000a@elmo>

We ran in the same problem as:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg27978.html

although setting the mailing list manager to external at address.com all
moderator email is sent to [nameoflist]-admin at domain.com
below every list is the following which also shows this problem:

------------
list is moderated by <a href="mailto:Nameoflist-owner at domain.com">external
at address.com</a><br>
------------

result: moderators do not receive moderator requests when these
"Nameoflist-owner" emailaddresses do not exist.

Is this a bug?



From by at xs4all.nl  Wed Nov 10 14:19:51 2004
From: by at xs4all.nl (by at xs4all.nl)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:19:51 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No moderator requests after 2.1.5 upgrade
Message-ID: <000701c4c727$f5e53df0$9700000a@elmo>

[AT] signs where parsed in previous message, by which the actual meaning of
my message was gone, please find editted message below:


> We ran in the same problem as:
>
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg27978.html
>
> although setting the mailing list manager to external[AT]address.com all
> moderator email is sent to [nameoflist]-admin[AT]domain.com
> below every list is the following which also shows this problem:
>
> ------------
> list is moderated by <a
href="mailto:Nameoflist-owner[AT]domain.com">external
> at address.com</a><br>
> ------------
>
> result: moderators do not receive moderator requests when these
> "Nameoflist-owner" emailaddresses do not exist.
>
> Is this a bug?
>



From cr10 at compuserve.com  Wed Nov 10 15:49:39 2004
From: cr10 at compuserve.com (Clare Redstone)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:49:39 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
Message-ID: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>

I am completely new to creating web sites and running mailing lists so do
not understand all the information I?ve found and would appreciate some
things spelling out for me.

I would like to run a mailing list as a discussion and support group.
Some members would like to receive each message as it is posted.
Others would like a digest.
And others would prefer to access the messages on a web site.
I would also like an archive that only group members can read ? but it would
be OK for new members to be able to read the old archives.
It would be great if the archive is searchable at least by key words. By
author too?

Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?

And if so, I?ll need to find a new host as the one I use now doesn?t have
Python.

Thank you for your help.

Clare



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Wed Nov 10 15:59:02 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 06:59:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>
References: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>
Message-ID: <355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10.169.6.241]>

--On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:49 PM +0000 Clare Redstone 
<cr10 at compuserve.com> wrote:

> Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?

It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.

What's a novice? Depends on how well he can follow the written instructions.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 16:37:48 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:37:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No moderator requests after 2.1.5 upgrade
In-Reply-To: <000901c4c70b$daa06950$9700000a@elmo>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411100737480265d01fffd9@msapiro>

<by at xs4all.nl> wrote:

>We ran in the same problem as:
>
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg27978.html
>
>although setting the mailing list manager to external at address.com all
>moderator email is sent to [nameoflist]-admin at domain.com
>below every list is the following which also shows this problem:
>
>------------
>list is moderated by <a href="mailto:Nameoflist-owner at domain.com">external
>at address.com</a><br>
>------------
>
>result: moderators do not receive moderator requests when these
>"Nameoflist-owner" emailaddresses do not exist.
>
>Is this a bug?

No it is not a bug. It appears that you do not have a Nameoflist-owner
alias in your MTA to pipe mail to that address to

 mailman/mail/mailman owner Nameoflist

You need to pipe mail to all 9 of the -admin, -bounces, -confirm,
-join, -leave, -owner, -request, -subscribe and -unsubscribe addresses
back to mailman. Mailman sends moderator requests to the
Nameoflist-owner address and when it receives it there, it sends it to
the actual owners.

The problem is your MTA is not properly set up to deliver mail to the
-owner address to Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 17:07:04 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:07:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10.169.6.241]>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411100807040406545b625a@msapiro>

 Kenneth Porter wrote:

>--On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:49 PM +0000 Clare Redstone 
><cr10 at compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>> Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?
>
>It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.

The pipermail archives can be made searchable. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp
and
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.008.htp

External archivers can be used. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.004.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From topper at libero.it  Wed Nov 10 17:15:55 2004
From: topper at libero.it (topper at libero.it)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:15:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin request waiting after web_page_url
Message-ID: <I6Z16J$F632409021E6C852385A8860876D194A@libero.it>

Hello,

I have mailman 2.0.11 on woody.
I've a message in pending post (Cause: Post by non-member to a members-only
list), but before approve this post I have changed web_page_url in web
interface. After that I had to modify web_page_url with command line
config_list. Now it's all ok, but every day at 5 PM I receive the admin request
for the pending post, in the email I have the old url, so i change the url to
point to the new, but web interface tell me that there are no pending request.

My question is: where is saved this pending request? How can i remove this request?

Thanks in advance.



____________________________________________________________
Libero ADSL: navighi gratis a 1.2 Mega, senza canone e costi di attivazione. 
Abbonati subito su http://www.libero.it 




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 17:32:21 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:32:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to make list as private, no more new milis
In-Reply-To: <4191C1E9.90505@solonet.co.id>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411100832210531d491f4c8@msapiro>

David wrote:
>
>I am newbie here, I already setup my new mailman at RedHat 9.0 and 
>successfull. But my question is how to make my mailman can't used by 
>another and couldn't create new milis ? And also how to make to public 
>if I changed my mind ?

Mail list creation requires sufficient shell access to run the command
line tools or it requires the site password or list creator password
if any to create lists from the web. Presumably, "others" don't have
any of these.

An individual list can be made public or private at any time as can its
archives if any through the web interface. See "advertised" in
"Privacy options..." and "archive_private" in "Archiving Options".
These can also be set with bin/config_list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Wed Nov 10 18:36:31 2004
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:36:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete a message
Message-ID: <4192519F.6010407@nclack.k12.or.us>

I didn't see this in the archives so I thought I would ask. A user sent

a message to a list yesterday.  Do to some problems which I haven't 
figured out yet, I see nothing in the error logs, the message never got 
sent.  The user needed the message to go out so he used our old list 
serv to do this.  What I want to do is stop this message from being 
delivered.  So is there some way to see if there are messages that are 
ready to be sent and then delete those messages? 

Thanks in advance

-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District #12
haack at nclack.k12.or.us




From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Nov 10 20:40:52 2004
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:40:52 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Lists
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.0.20041110133856.0294efe8@pop.visi.com>

I have a number of "hidden" non-public lists on my system.  Consequently they do not appear in the "Admin Overview Page."  Is there a way to get them to appear there, but still be hidden to normal users?

David Andrews




From jwblist at olympus.net  Wed Nov 10 22:27:16 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:27:16 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <PC17222004110917594004841eda3a6c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDB7C7B4.182AB%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/9/2004 17:59, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> However, a list member's autoresponder normally doesn't result in a
> recognized bounce. Are you sure that's the issue?

People are remarkably creative in the making of broken autoresponders.

  --John


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 22:41:51 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:41:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Lists
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.0.20041110133856.0294efe8@pop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111013415102184a4e97ad@msapiro>

David Andrews wrote:

>I have a number of "hidden" non-public lists on my system.  Consequently they do not appear in the "Admin Overview Page."  Is there a way to get them to appear there, but still be hidden to normal users?
>

Short of hacking admin.py to skip the "advertised" test or doing
something even more involved, no.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 10 23:17:54 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:17:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Delete a message
In-Reply-To: <4192519F.6010407@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111014175401714a4e9781@msapiro>

Robert Haack wrote:

>I didn't see this in the archives so I thought I would ask. A user sent
>
>a message to a list yesterday.  Do to some problems which I haven't 
>figured out yet, I see nothing in the error logs, the message never got 
>sent.  The user needed the message to go out so he used our old list 
>serv to do this.  What I want to do is stop this message from being 
>delivered.  So is there some way to see if there are messages that are 
>ready to be sent and then delete those messages? 

Look in qfiles/*

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From alexis at tpys.com.ar  Wed Nov 10 22:37:44 2004
From: alexis at tpys.com.ar (Alexis)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:37:44 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing
In-Reply-To: <BDB7C7B4.182AB%jwblist@olympus.net>
Message-ID: <20041110231151.225B51E4002@bag.python.org>

 hahaha, this is true.

In this case is the default autorespond program for qmail. I've not modified
anything (yet if I found that this is the problem of the bounces)



-----Mensaje original-----
De: mailman-users-bounces at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces at python.org] En nombre de John W. Baxter
Enviado el: Mi?rcoles, 10 de Noviembre de 2004 18:27
Para: Mailman-Users at python.org
Asunto: Re: [Mailman-Users] Bounce processing

On 11/9/2004 17:59, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> However, a list member's autoresponder normally doesn't result in a 
> recognized bounce. Are you sure that's the issue?

People are remarkably creative in the making of broken autoresponders.

  --John
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From zainie at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 01:01:04 2004
From: zainie at gmail.com (Zain Memon)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 16:01:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing relay
Message-ID: <4b39849904111016017f1301f2@mail.gmail.com>

A line in my /var/log/maillog shows this:

86FD820BA: to=<email at address.com>, orig_to=<email at address.com>,
relay=virtual, delay=0, status=bounced (unknown user:
"email at address.com")

What do I need to do to change the relay=virtual to something else?

I'm running Postfix and Mailman on a FreeBSD system.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 01:15:54 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:15:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing relay
In-Reply-To: <4b39849904111016017f1301f2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4b39849904111016017f1301f2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p060020b6bdb85f823010@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:01 PM -0800 2004-11-10, Zain Memon wrote:

>  What do I need to do to change the relay=virtual to something else?
>
>  I'm running Postfix and Mailman on a FreeBSD system.

	This is a postfix problem.  You would most likely be best served 
by going to the postfix web site and looking up things in their FAQ, 
their archives of their mailing lists, etc....  If that doesn't do 
the job, then try asking your question on their mailing lists.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From kornshell at solonet.co.id  Thu Nov 11 03:57:28 2004
From: kornshell at solonet.co.id (David)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:57:28 +0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post Installation Mailman Question
Message-ID: <4192D518.6020103@solonet.co.id>


Hello there,
I successfull install mailman 2.1.5 at RedHat 9.0, but I have some 
questions here :

1. How to change the owner ? from /$prefix/bin/list_owners I get one, I 
want to edit nor add another one
2. If a milis created, it always send notification to owner of mailman 
to add some lines for aliases to /etc/aliases and restart aliases, I 
want make this automatically (create a milis, automatically insert some 
important aliases related to milis and restart aliases without login to 
the box)
3. I want to make archieves at web can not accessed by everyone.


Thank you


From asbjorn at tigerstaden.no  Thu Nov 11 04:11:09 2004
From: asbjorn at tigerstaden.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Asbj=F8rn_Ulsberg?=)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 04:11:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scramble e-mail addresses in archives
Message-ID: <opsg95svr2uvpchu@quark>

Is it possible to have Mailman scramble all e-mail addresses that occurs  
(on both e-mail headers and message body) in e-mails sent to a Mailman  
list so that these e-mail addresses are also scrambled in the archives  
(and thus not harvested by spam robots)?

If this function exist, how is it turned on, and is it possible to have it  
scramble e-mail addresses in old archives?

-- 
Asbj?rn Ulsberg         -=|=-        asbjornu at hotmail.com
?He's a loathsome offensive brute, yet I can't look away?


From texascritter at gmail.com  Thu Nov 11 06:08:24 2004
From: texascritter at gmail.com (texas critter)
Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:08:24 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I want to know i can attach a file
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411081607300234d2f45ec8@msapiro>
References: <20041108115756.22613.qmail@web54010.mail.yahoo.com>
	<PC1722200411081607300234d2f45ec8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <b78c97bf0411102108171c3ff2@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, 8 Nov 2004 16:07:30 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> To VAEZ(daneshjooye sharif)
> 
> Your various test posts to the mailman-users list aside from annoying
> people are at best only going to tell you how the content filtering is

and get him kill-filtered by the list members so if/when he does have
a real question about Mailman, no-one will see his post.

-- 
hth,
texas critter

Glenfinnan Web Hosting: http://www.glenfinnan.net/
EL-M FAQ: http://www.emaillist-managers.com/


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Thu Nov 11 10:44:39 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:44:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] admin request waiting after web_page_url
In-Reply-To: <I6Z16J$F632409021E6C852385A8860876D194A@libero.it>
References: <I6Z16J$F632409021E6C852385A8860876D194A@libero.it>
Message-ID: <20041111094439.GA4873@server.onjapan.net>

On Wed, Nov 10, 2004 at 05:15:55PM +0100, topper at libero.it wrote:
> I have mailman 2.0.11 on woody.
[...]
> config_list. Now it's all ok, but every day at 5 PM I receive
> the admin request for the pending post, in the email I have
> the old url, so i change the url to point to the new, but web
> interface tell me that there are no pending request.

If the mail still contains the old URL, it suggests the list
configuration still has not been properly changed.

> My question is: where is saved this pending request? How can i
> remove this request?

In 2.0.x, check the lists/mylist/request.db file.  Perhaps
there is a permissions problem that is preventing Mailman
from modifying when you use the web interface.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From damir.miklavcic at lpp.si  Thu Nov 11 10:49:11 2004
From: damir.miklavcic at lpp.si (syse)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:49:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using non regular port on mailman
Message-ID: <41933597.4030300@lpp.si>

I have a mailman up and running just fine on it's default port 80.
But problems have started when I changed the default port in httpd.conf
80 to listen on 82!
>From that time on my web interface for mailman just don't seams to work
fine any more!! All links are pointing to the default port which is 80!
I tried it whith new installation from the scratch on my test machine.
So before I started a mailman service httpd was set to listen on port
82, and I've got the same result!
I think that must be a problem whit cgi-bin scripts ?
Have anybody else run on this problem ??? 

Regards, Damir



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Thu Nov 11 12:32:44 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:32:44 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] using non regular port on mailman
In-Reply-To: <41933597.4030300@lpp.si>
References: <41933597.4030300@lpp.si>
Message-ID: <20041111113244.GA6171@server.onjapan.net>

On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 10:49:11AM +0100, syse wrote:
> >From that time on my web interface for mailman just don't seams to work
> fine any more!! All links are pointing to the default port which is 80!

You will want to change DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in your mm_cfg.py.
Copy the original line from Defaults.py into mm_cfg.py and edit
it to include the :82.

You will also want to do it for PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL if your
machine has public archives made using the internal Pipermail
archiver.

Newly created lists will pick up the new value from your
mm_cfg.py.  To fix existing lists, you will want to run
bin/fix_url.py (Run it with no arguments and it will explain to
to use it with bin/withlist to update existing lists.)

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Thu Nov 11 15:09:08 2004
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:09:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No web interface
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB8C@sea0620smail.abf.local>

> Ralph Utbult" wrote:
> >
> >My question:
> >Is it possible to use Mailman in a "simpler" way than 
> subscribing via web? I would like to subscribe/unsubscribe 
> via mail, as other list servers do.
> >
> 
> Send blank e-mail with "Subject: help" to 
> mailman-users-request at python.org for a list of available 
> e-mail requests.
> 
> Also, you can subscribe by e-mailing 
> listname-join at example.com or listname-subscribe at example.com 
> and leave by e-mailing listname-leave at example.com or 
> listname-unsubscribe at example.com.
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

I don't know if I expressed myself badly (probably I did!). I was looking for a way to set up my own mailman (in Mandrake 10, with Postfix) without the web interface. At last, I found the right document! Thanks anyway for the help!

Ralph Utbult

----------------------------------------
Min e-post skyddas av SPAMfighter
506 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
H?mta gratis p? www.spamfighter.com idag!


From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Thu Nov 11 15:11:21 2004
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:11:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug?
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB8D@sea0620smail.abf.local>

Got the following reply when accessing via web. Sent it to sf.net bug
report. Anyone got any idea on what is wrong?

Ralph Utbult


Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/scripts/driver", line 68, in run_main
    immediate=1)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 52, in
__init__
    Logger.__init__(self, category, nofail, immediate)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 49, in
__init__
    self.__get_f()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 67, in __get_f
    1)
  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/codecs.py", line 566, in open
    file = __builtin__.open(filename, mode, buffering)
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'





------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Python information:
Variable Value 
sys.version 2.3.3 (#2, Feb 17 2004, 11:45:40) [GCC 3.3.2 (Mandrake Linux
10.0 3.3.2-6mdk)]  
sys.executable /usr/bin/python  
sys.prefix /usr  
sys.exec_prefix /usr  
sys.path /usr  
sys.platform linux2  




------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

Environment variables:
Variable Value 
SERVER_SOFTWARE  Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.48 (Mandrake
Linux/6.7.100mdk)  
SCRIPT_NAME  /mailman/admin  
SERVER_SIGNATURE  Apache-AdvancedExtranetServer/2.0.48 (Mandrake
Linux/6.7.100mdk) Server at hyndan.gbg.abf.se Port 80 
REQUEST_METHOD  GET  
PATH_INFO  /mailman  
SERVER_PROTOCOL  HTTP/1.1  
QUERY_STRING   
HTTP_USER_AGENT  Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.1; SV1;
.NET CLR 1.1.4322)  
HTTP_CONNECTION  Keep-Alive  
SERVER_NAME  hyndan.gbg.abf.se  
REMOTE_ADDR  62.127.120.98  
PATH_TRANSLATED  /var/www/html/mailman  
SERVER_PORT  80  
SERVER_ADDR  192.168.1.111  
DOCUMENT_ROOT  /var/www/html  
PYTHONPATH  /usr/lib/mailman  
SCRIPT_FILENAME  /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/admin  
SERVER_ADMIN  root at localhost  
HTTP_HOST  hyndan.gbg.abf.se  
REQUEST_URI  /mailman/admin/mailman  
HTTP_ACCEPT  */*  
GATEWAY_INTERFACE  CGI/1.1  
REMOTE_PORT  16832  
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE  sv  
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING  gzip, deflate  

----------------------------------------
Min e-post skyddas av SPAMfighter
506 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
Hamta gratis pa www.spamfighter.com idag!


From piero.salandin at eriador.it  Thu Nov 11 15:25:44 2004
From: piero.salandin at eriador.it (Piero Salandin)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:25:44 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10\.169\.6\.241]>
References: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>
	<355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10.169.6.241]>
Message-ID: <145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>

Hi there!

On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:59 Kenneth Porter wrote:

>> Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?

KP> It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.

I think you cannot REPLY to messages (or post messages) via Web, isn't it?

Best regards.

--
Ing. Piero Salandin




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 15:01:02 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:01:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] I want to know i can attach a file
In-Reply-To: <b78c97bf0411102108171c3ff2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20041108115756.22613.qmail@web54010.mail.yahoo.com>
	<PC1722200411081607300234d2f45ec8@msapiro>
	<b78c97bf0411102108171c3ff2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p060020b9bdb920e08272@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:08 PM -0600 2004-11-10, texas critter wrote:

>>  Your various test posts to the mailman-users list aside from annoying
>>  people are at best only going to tell you how the content filtering is
>
>  and get him kill-filtered by the list members so if/when he does have
>  a real question about Mailman, no-one will see his post.

	He's already been toasted.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 15:07:26 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:07:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post Installation Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <4192D518.6020103@solonet.co.id>
References: <4192D518.6020103@solonet.co.id>
Message-ID: <p060020babdb921579e2c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:57 AM +0700 2004-11-11, David wrote:

>  2. If a milis created, it always send notification to owner of mailman to
>  add some lines for aliases to /etc/aliases and restart aliases, I want
>  make this automatically (create a milis, automatically insert some
>  important aliases related to milis and restart aliases without login to
>  the box)

	What MTA are you using?  If you're using sendmail, please see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.049.htp>.

>  3. I want to make archieves at web can not accessed by everyone.

	That's easy.  From the main web admin interface for your list, go 
to "Archiving Options".  From there, go to the second radio button, 
which has the description "Is archive file source for public or 
private archival?"  Set this to be "private", and click on the 
"Submit Your Changes" button.


	I highly recommend that you read the Mailman FAQ entries at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.022.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.023.htp> 
before proceeding.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 15:15:09 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:15:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scramble e-mail addresses in archives
In-Reply-To: <opsg95svr2uvpchu@quark>
References: <opsg95svr2uvpchu@quark>
Message-ID: <p060020bbbdb923240a3c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 4:11 AM +0100 2004-11-11, Asbj?rn Ulsberg wrote:

>  Is it possible to have Mailman scramble all e-mail addresses that occurs
>  (on both e-mail headers and message body) in e-mails sent to a Mailman list
>  so that these e-mail addresses are also scrambled in the archives (and
>  thus not harvested by spam robots)?

	You can't scramble all e-mail addresses that appear in the 
messages that are sent out, because then users couldn't reply, 
misconfigured MTAs might reject the messages as spam, etc....  The 
best you can do is to protect the archives, which Mailman does by 
default.

	However, Mailman also usually provides a link to the full mailbox 
with addresses that have not been protected, and that problem is 
addressed at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.034.htp>.

>  If this function exist, how is it turned on, and is it possible to have
>  it scramble e-mail addresses in old archives?

	From the main web admin page for your list, go to the "Privacy 
options..." page.  Scroll down to the bottom of the page, and make 
sure that the last radio button is set to "Yes".  It has the 
description "Show member addresses so they're not directly 
recognizable  as email addresses?"  If this needs to be corrected, 
then do so and click on the "Submit Your Changes" button.

	If you want something more than what this option provides, you'll 
need to make source code modifications to Mailman in order to obtain 
your desired results.  If you go that direction, we would appreciate 
your contributing those changes back to the project.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 16:27:07 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:27:07 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bug?
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB8D@sea0620smail.abf.local>
References: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06AB8D@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <p060020c1bdb935204155@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:11 PM +0100 2004-11-11, Ralph Utbult wrote:

>  Got the following reply when accessing via web. Sent it to sf.net bug
>  report. Anyone got any idea on what is wrong?

	[ ... deletia ... ]

>  IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'

	It says "permission denied".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 16:27:36 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:27:36 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>
References: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>
	<355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10.169.6.241]>
	<145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>
Message-ID: <p060020c2bdb935564e00@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:25 PM +0100 2004-11-11, Piero Salandin wrote:

>>>  Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?
>
>  KP> It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.
>
>  I think you cannot REPLY to messages (or post messages) via Web, isn't it?

	Not without a separate webmail server, no.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 11 16:57:36 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:57:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411110757360125ad9bee21@msapiro>

Piero Salandin wrote:
>
>On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:59 Kenneth Porter wrote:
>
>>> Can MailMan do this and can a novice set it up?
>
>KP> It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.
>
>I think you cannot REPLY to messages (or post messages) via Web, isn't it?

That's correct, but that wasn't one of the things asked about in the OP.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Thu Nov 11 17:45:25 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:45:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 9, Issue 30
In-Reply-To: <20041111110023.0014E1E4003@bag.python.org>
References: <20041111110023.0014E1E4003@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1100191525.1862.25.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

> From: David <kornshell at solonet.co.id>
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post Installation Mailman Question
> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:57:28 +0700
> 
> 
> Hello there,
> I successfull install mailman 2.1.5 at RedHat 9.0, but I have some 
> questions here :
> 

Excellent!  It is a great piece of software and I think you will like it
a lot.

>
> 1. How to change the owner ? from /$prefix/bin/list_owners I get one, I 
> want to edit nor add another one

I asked this a couple of days ago.  The owners of the list can use the
mailman web interface to add, remove or change ownership.

If you want to do it as a site admin, you can do it in a programmatic
way using bin/withlist using Python syntax to modify the owner object of
the list.

Check the archives for this list for an excellent example.

Another, easy, way to do it from the command line as ad admin is to dump
the configuration of the list, change the value(s) that you are
concerned about (ownership, whether or not you want public archives,
etc) and then reload the modified configuration.

bin/config_list -o and -i should help in that regard.

bin/config_list --help should get you started.

Just edit the output file with your favorite editor and then import your
changes.

use -v to make sure all went well.

use -c to do a dry run.



> 2. If a milis created, it always send notification to owner of mailman 
> to add some lines for aliases to /etc/aliases and restart aliases, I 
> want make this automatically (create a milis, automatically insert some 
> important aliases related to milis and restart aliases without login to 
> the box)

My guess is that you will have to script this.

> 3. I want to make archieves at web can not accessed by everyone.
> 

See my answer above.

> 
> Thank you
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________

-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 11 17:26:33 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 17:26:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Will MailMan do all this?
In-Reply-To: <145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>
References: <MHEJLJHDFJAAIPHBALKCEEOBCJAA.cr10@compuserve.com>
	<355326BC163BDCD658EE5F04@[10.169.6.241]>
	<145447242.20041111152544@eriador.it>
Message-ID: <p060020c4bdb942f17e35@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:25 PM +0100 2004-11-11, Piero Salandin wrote:

>  KP> It lacks the search feature. I believe everything else is there.
>
>  I think you cannot REPLY to messages (or post messages) via Web, isn't it?

	I have added the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.026.htp> 
to try to address these kinds of questions.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From torriem at chem.byu.edu  Thu Nov 11 17:40:48 2004
From: torriem at chem.byu.edu (Michael L Torrie)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:40:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one virtual domain to another
	(same installation)
Message-ID: <1100191248.12790.4.camel@isengard>

When I first set up mailman, the machine had one name.  Now that the
machine is production, it has a new name (although the old one still
works for compatibility).  I want to migrate all the lists over to use
the current name for the virtual host.  Right now I have to log in using
the old name (use the old name in the url) to manage half of my lists.
There used to be a move_list script, but that seems to not be a part of
mailman anymore.  What should I do?

Michael

-- 



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 11 18:04:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 09:04:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one virtual domain to
	another(same installation)
In-Reply-To: <1100191248.12790.4.camel@isengard>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411110904140734b9822bcc@msapiro>

Michael L Torrie wrote:

>When I first set up mailman, the machine had one name.  Now that the
>machine is production, it has a new name (although the old one still
>works for compatibility).  I want to migrate all the lists over to use
>the current name for the virtual host.  Right now I have to log in using
>the old name (use the old name in the url) to manage half of my lists.
>There used to be a move_list script, but that seems to not be a part of
>mailman anymore.  What should I do?

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.29. (don't miss the "Existing versus new lists" section)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From torriem at chem.byu.edu  Thu Nov 11 18:51:05 2004
From: torriem at chem.byu.edu (Michael L Torrie)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:51:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moving a list from one virtual domain to
	another(same installation)
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411110904140734b9822bcc@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411110904140734b9822bcc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1100195465.12790.6.camel@isengard>

On Thu, 2004-11-11 at 09:04 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> 
> Article 4.29. (don't miss the "Existing versus new lists" section)

Thanks very much.

> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
-- 



From garym at xmlteam.com  Thu Nov 11 19:41:20 2004
From: garym at xmlteam.com (Gary Lawrence Murphy)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:41:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Another cause for no-emails?
Message-ID: <m28y98qldb.fsf@maya.dyndns.org>


I appear to have discovered yet another way to prevent mailman from
sending out those pesky mailing list emails ;) ... I've been through
the checklist on 3.14 of the FAQ, also checked the RH9 Sendmail FAQ
and everything (so far) checks out

but mailman does not send mail.

The possibly complicating factor is this host having two virtual
domains, although sending regular emails _to_ either the
lists.xmlteam.com or fod2.xmlteam.com addresses seems to work just
fine:

I'm using the RPM in the RH9 distribution, mailman-2.1-8, with
sendmail configured with the cw option set and including all possible
hostnames for this IP, /etc/mail/access includes all the domains as
RELAY able, there's nothing at all in the mailman/error (0 bytes) and
mailman is correctly entered into the smrsh.  I've even set the
SMTPHOST to the IP, just in case

Another possible clue: while Sendmail appears to route the inbound
message correctly, nothing shows up in the archives or the moderation
queue.

the only entries in the /var/log/maillog goes like this:

    Nov 10 20:53:19 feed2 sendmail[558]: iAB1quDr000552:
    to=xtnews at lists.xmlteam.com, ctladdr=garym at xmlteam.com (505/501),
    delay=00:00:23, xdelay=00:00:11, mailer=relay, pri=30416,
    relay=[127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1], dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent (iAB1r8FO\000559
    Message accepted for delivery)

    Nov 10 20:53:22 feed2 sendmail[565]: iAB1r8FO000559:
    to="|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post xtnews",
    ctladdr=<xtnews at lists.xmlteam.com> (8/0), delay=00:00:04,
    xdelay=00:00:01, mailer=prog, pri=30965, dsn=2.0.0, stat=Sent


sendmail -bt also suggests the aliases and virtual host configuration
are correct ...

    # /usr/lib/sendmail -bv xtnews at lists.xmlteam.com

    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post xtnews"... deliverable: mailer
    prog, user "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post xtnews"

Now, one suspicious thing: RH9 apparently runs Sendmail under the user
group 'smmsp', and when I tried to run /var/mailman/mail/mailman as
the smmsp _user_, I got

# sudo -u smmsp /var/mailman/mail/mailman post xtnews

    Group mismatch error. Mailman expected the mail wrapper script to be
    executed as one of the following groups:
    [mail, nobody, mailman],

    but the system's mail server executed the mail script as group: "smmsp".
    Try tweaking the mail server to run the script as one of these groups:
    [mail, nobody, mailman],

    or re-run configure providing the command line option:
    '--with-mail-gid=smmsp'.

Smoking gun?  Clear case of a RH9 mis-packaging?  Must I _recompile_
mailman to make this change? (I'm afraid changing RH9's Sendmail
installation as recommended could open an even larger can of worms)

Any other diagnostic tests I can run?

-- 
    gary lawrence murphy <gary at xmlteam.com> :: xml team solutions
     :: sports data integration through open standard sportsml ::
             www.xmlteam.com :: sportwire.sourceforge.net


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 11 20:51:17 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 11:51:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator not receiving notifications
In-Reply-To: <200411090127.iA91RQs22975@ns2.wnahosting.com>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111111511702817311f62a@msapiro>

Will Nordmeyer wrote:
>
>I've got a list where the moderator is not receiving list submission
>notifications.

The "moderated post" notices (and other notices) are sent from Mailman
to the listname-owner address. When they are received back by Mailman,
they are resent to the actual owners and moderators.

If the listname-owner alias is not set in the MTA (or there is not some
equivalent MTA process) to pipe mail addressed to the listname-owner
address  to "$prefix/mail/mailman owner listname", the notices won't
be sent to the proper addresses.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu  Thu Nov 11 20:52:47 2004
From: Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu (Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:52:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Lotus Notes MTA
Message-ID: <OF273A6550.7AB84E24-ON06256F49.006CCFDC@wlc.edu>

 

I have installed Mailman on a Fedora Core 2 box and our site has a Lotus
Notes server as our main mail server.  Can  I use the Notes server or do I
install Sendmail or Postfix on the Fedora box and then use the Notes
server to send the mail? What files to I need to configure to make this
happen.  I am a total newbie so I apologize.

 

Thanks.



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 11 21:18:15 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 12:18:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Lotus Notes MTA
In-Reply-To: <OF273A6550.7AB84E24-ON06256F49.006CCFDC@wlc.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411111218150828c5bb8b2b@msapiro>

Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu wrote:
>
>I have installed Mailman on a Fedora Core 2 box and our site has a Lotus
>Notes server as our main mail server.  Can  I use the Notes server or do I
>install Sendmail or Postfix on the Fedora box and then use the Notes
>server to send the mail? What files to I need to configure to make this
>happen.  I am a total newbie so I apologize.

You need to be able to tell the incoming MTA to pipe mail addressed to
any of the list addresses to the mail/mailman wrapper with appropriate
arguments. With Sendmail and Postfix, this is normally done with
aliases.

It's not absolutely mandatory, but you should be able to handle VERP
like addresses. E.g. incoming mail to

  mailman-users-bounces+msapiro=value.net at python.org

needs to be delivered in exactly the same way as mail to

  mailman-users-bounces at python.org

If Lotus Notes can do these things, you should be OK, but also see the
second paragraph of
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.010.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pythonTutor at venix.com  Thu Nov 11 21:56:56 2004
From: pythonTutor at venix.com (Lloyd Kvam)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:56:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generating a count of -1 pending requests
Message-ID: <1100206616.18761.63.camel@laptop.venix.com>

The web interface does not show any pending request. check_db does not
report any problems.  I'd appreciate any pointers on where to go to fix
this.


The Improveyourmedicalcare at www.venix.com mailing list has -1
request(s) waiting for your consideration at:

        http://www.venix.com/mailman/admindb/improveyourmedicalcare
        
Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

-- 
Lloyd Kvam
Venix Corp



From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Thu Nov 11 20:54:19 2004
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 20:54:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Lists
References: <6.0.1.1.0.20041110133856.0294efe8@pop.visi.com>
Message-ID: <alm.20041111205419.23987@gwaihir.akallabeth.de>

David Andrews schrieb:

>  I have a number of "hidden" non-public lists on my system. 
>  Consequently they do not appear in the "Admin Overview Page."  Is
>  there a way to get them to appear there, but still be hidden to
>  normal users?

Since everyone can go to the Admin Overview Page it would not be a
very good idea to let "hidden" lists appear there ...



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 11 22:42:47 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:42:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] generating a count of -1 pending requests
In-Reply-To: <1100206616.18761.63.camel@laptop.venix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411111342470421f4f405b4@msapiro>

Lloyd Kvam wrote:

>The web interface does not show any pending request. check_db does not
>report any problems.  I'd appreciate any pointers on where to go to fix
>this.
>
>
>The Improveyourmedicalcare at www.venix.com mailing list has -1
>request(s) waiting for your consideration at:
>
>        http://www.venix.com/mailman/admindb/improveyourmedicalcare
>        
>Please attend to this at your earliest convenience.  This notice of
>pending requests, if any, will be sent out daily.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.38.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu  Fri Nov 12 01:15:32 2004
From: Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu (Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu)
Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 18:15:32 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Lotus Notes MTA
Message-ID: <OF2F033ECE.69F700C7-ON06256F4A.00003CF0@wlc.edu>


Would another solution be to install Sendmail or Postfix on the Fedora box
and use this strictly for Mailman or would that require another domain? I
would prefer not to use the Lotus Notes server if possible. I guess what I
am asking is if we can have two email servers, the current Notes server
and a Mailman server running some MTA program.  If so, what would be
required to make this work.

Thanks for the help.

-----Original Message-----
From: msapiro at value.net [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:18 PM
To: Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Lotus Notes MTA

Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu wrote:
>
>I have installed Mailman on a Fedora Core 2 box and our site has a Lotus
>Notes server as our main mail server.  Can  I use the Notes server or do
I
>install Sendmail or Postfix on the Fedora box and then use the Notes
>server to send the mail? What files to I need to configure to make this
>happen.  I am a total newbie so I apologize.

You need to be able to tell the incoming MTA to pipe mail addressed to
any of the list addresses to the mail/mailman wrapper with appropriate
arguments. With Sendmail and Postfix, this is normally done with
aliases.

It's not absolutely mandatory, but you should be able to handle VERP
like addresses. E.g. incoming mail to

  mailman-users-bounces+msapiro=value.net at python.org

needs to be delivered in exactly the same way as mail to

  mailman-users-bounces at python.org

If Lotus Notes can do these things, you should be OK, but also see the
second paragraph of
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.010.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 12 01:47:15 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 09:47:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Post Installation Mailman Question
In-Reply-To: <4192D518.6020103@solonet.co.id>
References: <4192D518.6020103@solonet.co.id>
Message-ID: <20041112004715.GA14869@server.onjapan.net>

On Thu, Nov 11, 2004 at 09:57:28AM +0700, David wrote:
> 1. How to change the owner ? from /$prefix/bin/list_owners I get one, I 
> want to edit nor add another one

You can change it from the web interface of each list on the
"General Options" page.

>From the server shell prompt, there are some suggestions in
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/040737.html>

> 2. If a milis created, it always send notification to owner of mailman 
> to add some lines for aliases to /etc/aliases and restart aliases, I 
> want make this automatically (create a milis, automatically insert some 
> important aliases related to milis and restart aliases without login to 
> the box)

A technique for doing that with the Exim mail server is
provided in the README.EXIM file (as well as at
<http://www.exim.org/howto/mailman21.html> )

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov 12 03:19:50 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 03:19:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Lotus Notes MTA
In-Reply-To: <OF2F033ECE.69F700C7-ON06256F4A.00003CF0@wlc.edu>
References: <OF2F033ECE.69F700C7-ON06256F4A.00003CF0@wlc.edu>
Message-ID: <p06200704bdb9cb296bbc@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:15 PM -0600 2004-11-11, Jeff_Nagel at wlc.edu wrote:

>  Would another solution be to install Sendmail or Postfix on the Fedora box
>  and use this strictly for Mailman or would that require another domain? I
>  would prefer not to use the Lotus Notes server if possible. I guess what I
>  am asking is if we can have two email servers, the current Notes server
>  and a Mailman server running some MTA program.  If so, what would be
>  required to make this work.

	That might be able to be done, but a lot depends on the Lotus 
Notes server.  If you can configure it to listen only to a given IP 
address, then you should be able to set up another IP address on the 
same machine (maybe even bound to the same interface).  This other IP 
address would have to have a different name, but not necessarily a 
different domain.  You could then configure postfix or sendmail to 
listen to this other IP address, and configure Mailman to use the 
other hostname associated with this other IP address.

	If you can't configure Notes to listen only to a given IP 
address, you're going to have a much tougher job.  You can't have two 
programs share the same port number, so neither postfix nor sendmail 
would be able to share the SMTP port with Notes.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From coke_drinker at ogts.net  Fri Nov 12 08:58:45 2004
From: coke_drinker at ogts.net (Bruce Toews)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 01:58:45 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing All Hidden Users
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.61.0411120155580.82421@server2.shellworld.net>

Hi. I sure hope I'm not out of line by posting this question here.

I run a mailing list, and I am moving it from one place to another. Both 
are run on Mailman. I thought it would be courteous to automatically have 
my subscribers' addresses hidden for their privacy protection. But now 
that I am moving the list, I need to get the whole subscriber list, and 
that list is hidden even from me, list owner. Is there any easy way to get 
at that entire list or do I need to uncheck the hidden option for every 
single user one-by-one?

Bruce

-- 
Bruce Toews
E-mail and MSN/Windows Messenger: coke_drinker at ogts.net
Web Site (including info on my weekly commentaries): http://www.ogts.net
For the best oldies anywhere visit http://www.treasureislandoldies.com


From etierra at gmail.com  Fri Nov 12 10:42:07 2004
From: etierra at gmail.com (Tierra)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 02:42:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizations
Message-ID: <c7ef32a7041112014255a09ae0@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty new to mailman (and was pretty lucky to get it working with
qmail, let me just say the user notes from qmail users came in VERY
handy), and I just wanted to know if there's someway I can cut back on
processes. Mailman seems to be eating up a lot more memory than really
needed. Is this just a drawback of running through Python?

  PID USER      PR  NI  VIRT  RES  SHR S %CPU %MEM    TIME+  COMMAND
22537 mailman    9   0  6544 6056 4732 S  0.0 10.2   0:01.86 python
22540 mailman    9   0  5592 4272 4264 S  0.0  7.2   0:02.22 python
22541 mailman    9   0  5444 3176 3176 S  0.0  5.3   0:01.92 python
22539 mailman    9   0  5384 2392 2392 S  0.0  4.0   0:01.29 python
22534 mailman    9   0  5104 2364 2364 S  0.0  4.0   0:01.09 python
22535 mailman    9   0  5084 2316 2316 S  0.0  3.9   0:01.09 python
22536 mailman    9   0  5072 2308 2308 S  0.0  3.9   0:00.35 python
22538 mailman    9   0  5120 2304 2304 S  0.0  3.9   0:01.35 python
17394 mailman    9   0  4272 1092 1092 S  0.0  1.8   0:00.14 mailmanctl

Yes, that is 10% of mem on the first listed process, and yes, I'm
tight on ram right now.

Bryan Petty


From lists at debpro.webcom.dk  Fri Nov 12 11:07:13 2004
From: lists at debpro.webcom.dk (Jacob Friis)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:07:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients email addresses in To: header or
 clickable unsubscribe link
Message-ID: <41948B51.2060201@debpro.webcom.dk>

Is it possible to have the members address in the To: header?
Or a clickable unsubscribe link in the mail?


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov 12 11:28:33 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:28:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Optimizations
In-Reply-To: <c7ef32a7041112014255a09ae0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7ef32a7041112014255a09ae0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200706bdba3a176b88@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:42 AM -0700 2004-11-12, Tierra wrote:

>  Yes, that is 10% of mem on the first listed process, and yes, I'm
>  tight on ram right now.

	Mailman 2.1.x will have eight or nine qrunner processes 
constantly in memory, but they shouldn't be running unless they have 
actual work to do.


	Depending on what OS you're using, the system may try to keep 
everything in memory that it can, so as to make maximum use of what 
is available.  Anything that is not currently running is liable to be 
paged out in favour of other processes, filesystem/disk caching, 
etc....

	On many systems I'm familiar with, it is not at all uncommon to 
see what appears to be just a few KB "free", but on closer inspection 
you discover that most of the memory that is "used" is actually 
"cache" or "inactive", and therefore available for immediate page-out 
and re-use by other processes.


	Here's a FreeBSD 5.2.1 system I help administer:

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS  TT  STAT STARTED      TIME COMMAND
mailman  53524  0.0  0.0  7928   12  ??  Ss   Wed02PM   0:00.46 mailmanctl
mailman  54142  0.0  1.5  8544 3828  ??  S    Wed02PM   0:57.26 VirginRunner
mailman  54143  0.0  0.7  7892 1844  ??  S    Wed02PM   0:55.32 CommandRunner
mailman  54144  0.0  1.7  8592 4252  ??  S    Wed02PM   1:03.93 IncomingRunner
mailman  54145  0.0  0.4  7892 1064  ??  S    Wed02PM   0:00.69 RetryRunner
mailman  54146  0.0  0.7  8328 1888  ??  S    Wed02PM   0:57.06 NewsRunner
mailman  54147  0.0  0.8  8512 2036  ??  S    Wed02PM   0:59.44 BounceRunner
mailman  54148  0.0  1.1 10180 2784  ??  S    Wed02PM   1:18.16 ArchRunner
mailman  54149  0.0  1.7  8940 4332  ??  S    Wed02PM   1:47.38 OutgoingRunner

	On this machine, the first few lines of "top" shows:

last pid: 75984;  load averages:  0.00,  0.00,  0.00   up 10+08:30:45  02:13:03
79 processes:  3 running, 76 sleeping
CPU states: 14.3% user,  0.0% nice, 23.8% system,  0.0% interrupt, 61.9% idle
Mem: 132M Active, 20M Inact, 60M Wired, 6280K Cache, 34M Buf, 25M Free
Swap: 513M Total, 73M Used, 440M Free, 14% Inuse


	Here's a Debian Linux (kernel 2.4.26) machine I help administer:

USER       PID %CPU %MEM   VSZ  RSS TTY      STAT START   TIME COMMAND
mailman   5130  0.0  0.1  5828  2088 ?       S    Jul06   0:00 mailmanctl
mailman   5131  2.0  1.6 54028 34896 ?       S    Jul06 3807:00 ArchRunner
mailman   5132  0.3  0.7 25740 15252 ?       S    Jul06 606:43 BounceRunner
mailman   5133  0.0  0.7 19328 15608 ?       S    Jul06  73:38 CommandRunner
mailman   5134  0.1  0.7 18696 16040 ?       S    Jul06 305:05 IncomingRunner
mailman   5135  0.0  0.3  9212  6840 ?       S    Jul06  43:38 NewsRunner
mailman   5136  2.4  1.1 25316 22816 ?       S    Jul06 4528:36 OutgoingRunner
mailman   5137  0.1  0.7 16828 14500 ?       S    Jul06 307:12 VirginRunner
mailman   5138  0.0  0.0  9624  1848 ?       S    Jul06   0:03 RetryRunner
mailman  19970  0.0  0.0 10184  1592 ?       S    Aug21   0:00 gate_news

	Top shows:

  11:16:51 up 129 days, 14:07,  1 user,  load average: 0.08, 0.18, 0.22
145 processes: 142 sleeping, 2 running, 1 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU states:  71.4% user,  33.0% system,   0.9% nice,  2333.9% idle
Mem:   2069316K total,  2020500K used,    48816K free,    53956K buffers
Swap:  1951888K total,   191316K used,  1760572K free,   935268K cached


	Both of these machines are effectively completely idle at the 
moment, and yet neither of them has a whole lot of memory that, on 
first glance, would appear to be free.  If you really want to find 
out whether or not you're tight on memory that is actively being 
used, with your system thrashing about trying to always free up 
memory from processes that are fighting for the same resources, you 
need to use other tools to investigate this matter.  One good tool is 
"iostat", another one is "vmstat".

	Looking at that FreeBSD machine again, vmstat shows:

% vmstat 1 20
  procs      memory      page                    disks     faults      cpu
  r b w     avm    fre  flt  re  pi  po  fr  sr da0 da1   in   sy  cs us sy id
  1 0 0  500148  49132   58   1   0   0  36  95   0   0  363    0 317  2  1 97
  0 0 0  500148  49132    5   0   0   0   5   0   0   0  365    0 304  0  4 96
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   1   0   0   0  357    0 291  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  358    0 284  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  357    0 284  1  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  361    0 298  1  2 97
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  369    0 312  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   3   0  369    0 341  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  364    0 296  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  357    0 287  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  361    0 301  2  2 97
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   4   0   9   0  386    0 344  1  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  367    0 301  1  4 95
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  360    0 288  1  3 96
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  357    0 286  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  361    0 301  0  2 98
  0 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   2   0  368    0 312  1  2 98
  2 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   1   0   0   0  358    0 290  2  2 96
  2 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  357    0 285  1  3 96
  2 0 0  500148  49132    0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0  358    0 289  0  3 97

	Looking at the Linux box, vmstat shows:

% vmstat 1 20
    procs                      memory    swap          io     system         cpu
  r  b  w   swpd   free   buff  cache  si  so    bi    bo   in    cs  us  sy  id
  0  0  0 191316  51020  54252 936864   0   0    14    15    9    19   2  10  18
  0  0  0 191316  50940  54280 936880   0   0     4   256  251   329   0   0  99
  0  0  0 191316  50828  54284 936900   0   0     8     0  263   422   0   0  99
  0  0  0 191316  50780  54288 936916   0   0     8     0  241   414   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  50016  54292 936932   0   0     4     0  216   345   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  49244  54292 936940   0   0     0     0  195   248   0   0 100
  0  0  0 191316  50588  54316 936956   0   0     0  1160  300   644   3   2  95
  0  0  0 191316  50516  54328 936968   0   0     8    64  222   252   1   0  99
  0  0  0 191316  50360  54344 936996   0   0    24     0  236   324   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  49708  54352 936980   0   0    16     0  246   433   1   0  98
  0  0  0 191316  50364  54360 936992   0   0    12     0  315   466   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  48820  54376 937004   0   0     0   272  220   314   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  49112  54380 936936   0   0     4     0  225   343   1   0  99
  0  0  0 191316  50836  54388 936920   0   0     4     0  206   304   3   1  96
  0  0  0 191316  50772  54388 936932   0   0     0     0  174   171   0   0 100
  0  1  0 191316  50728  54392 936944   0   0    12     0  237   435   0   0 100
  0  0  0 191316  50696  54412 936956   0   0     0   220  193   221   0   1  99
  0  0  0 191316  50640  54416 936968   0   0     8     0  187   120   0   0 100
  0  0  0 191316  49928  54416 936984   0   0     0     0  214   362   1   0  99
  0  0  0 191316  50576  54416 936992   0   0     0     0  215   344   0   0  99


	For the FreeBSD box, look at the columns for "pi" (page in) and 
"po" (page out).  This machine isn't doing any paging at all, which 
means that there is no memory pressure.  It may appear to be short on 
memory, but that's only because the system is keeping everything in 
memory that it can, and it hasn't needed to page anything out that 
it's got currently loaded.  You can also look at the columns for "fr" 
(free) and "sr" (scan rate).  The former is "pages freed per second", 
and the latter is "pages scanned by clock algorithm, per-second". 
Both fields show that this system is doing very little in either of 
these categories, and confirms the conclusions drawn from the pi/po 
columns.


	To go any further into this topic, you really have to know more 
about your OS and how to do proper performance monitoring, analysis, 
and tuning for it.  Of course, that is really beyond the scope of 
this mailing list.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov 12 11:29:54 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:29:54 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing All Hidden Users
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.61.0411120155580.82421@server2.shellworld.net>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.61.0411120155580.82421@server2.shellworld.net>
Message-ID: <p06200707bdba40d800d9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:58 AM -0600 2004-11-12, Bruce Toews wrote:

>  But now that I am moving the list, I need to get the whole subscriber
>  list, and that list is hidden even from me, list owner. Is there any
>  easy way to get at that entire list or do I need to uncheck the hidden
>  option for every single user one-by-one?

	You can do it from the command-line.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov 12 12:46:31 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:46:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients email addresses in To:
	header or  clickable unsubscribe link
In-Reply-To: <41948B51.2060201@debpro.webcom.dk>
References: <41948B51.2060201@debpro.webcom.dk>
Message-ID: <p06200710bdba5205073e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:07 AM +0100 2004-11-12, Jacob Friis wrote:

>  Is it possible to have the members address in the To: header?

	You could turn on full personalization, but that does some other 
things you may not like.  Among other things, it destroys information 
about what other recipients were listed where on the original 
recipient headers.

>  Or a clickable unsubscribe link in the mail?

	Also available through personalization.  You just have to modify 
the template.

	Also note the RFC 2142 headers that Mailman will include by 
default on each and every message that is sent through the system. 
For example, the mailman-users mailing lists includes the following 
headers with every message sent:

List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users>
List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>


	Depending on the recipients MUA, they should be able to click on 
the appropriate link and have their system "Do The Right Thing".


	I would encourage you to go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and read all the entries 
that discuss personalization.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 12 17:27:00 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:27:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Seeing All Hidden Users
In-Reply-To: <p06200707bdba40d800d9@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411120827000234c7186b2a@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 1:58 AM -0600 2004-11-12, Bruce Toews wrote:
>
>>  But now that I am moving the list, I need to get the whole subscriber
>>  list, and that list is hidden even from me, list owner. Is there any
>>  easy way to get at that entire list or do I need to uncheck the hidden
>>  option for every single user one-by-one?
>
>	You can do it from the command-line.  See 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.009.htp>.


And if you don't have access to the command line tools, see
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb

Also, rather than hiding everyones address for privacy, why not just
make the subscriber list available to list owners only?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 12 17:44:34 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 08:44:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recipients email addresses in To:header or
	clickable unsubscribe link
In-Reply-To: <p06200710bdba5205073e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC172220041112084434006265a6a240@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 11:07 AM +0100 2004-11-12, Jacob Friis wrote:
>
>>  Is it possible to have the members address in the To: header?
>
>	You could turn on full personalization, but that does some other 
>things you may not like.  Among other things, it destroys information 
>about what other recipients were listed where on the original 
>recipient headers.
>
>>  Or a clickable unsubscribe link in the mail?
>
>	Also available through personalization.  You just have to modify 
>the template.

Also note that you can enable and turn on personalization without "full
personalization" which will make all the necessary user information
available to build an unsubscribe link in the footer without munging
the To: header. However, all the personalization options only work for
individual messages, not for digests.

>	Also note the RFC 2142 headers that Mailman will include by 
>default on each and every message that is sent through the system. 
>For example, the mailman-users mailing lists includes the following 
>headers with every message sent:
>
>List-Id: Mailman mailing list management users <mailman-users.python.org>
>List-Unsubscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
>	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>List-Archive: <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users>
>List-Post: <mailto:mailman-users at python.org>
>List-Help: <mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=help>
>List-Subscribe: <http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users>,
>	<mailto:mailman-users-request at python.org?subject=subscribe>
>
>
>	Depending on the recipients MUA, they should be able to click on 
>the appropriate link and have their system "Do The Right Thing".

Assuming that when they follow the mailto link, the address they reply
from is the subscribed address. This may not be the case, especially
if the user has subscribed a "forwarding" address to the list and has
forgotten that fact.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brent.shafer at leeca.org  Fri Nov 12 19:04:19 2004
From: brent.shafer at leeca.org (Brent Shafer)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 13:04:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <464F5F99-34D5-11D9-910A-000D93AFF428@leeca.org>

I'm almost there!!!  My Mailman server is sending out confirmation 
emails, but the reply address is being bounced by my SMTP server.  I'm 
assuming that the alias list that was generated when I first created 
the Mailman list needs to be installed, but I'm not sure where to paste 
that information.  Any help would be greatly appreciated...  the error 
email I'm getting back is pasted below.

Thanks
Brent

This report relates to a message you sent with the following header 
fields:

   Message-id: 
<fc.0119ece10000d7a73b9aca0096dca746.d7a8 at blackriver.k12.oh.us>
   Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:54:50 -0500
   From: Brent Shafer <brent_s at blackriver.k12.oh.us>
   To: br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us
   Subject: Re: confirm a5819382b0121a2823b076cf1b7921bf560a0991

Your message cannot be delivered to the following recipients:

   Recipient address: br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us
   Reason: Remote SMTP server has rejected address
   Diagnostic code: smtp;550 5.1.1 
<br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us>... User unknown
   Remote system: dns;mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us 
(TCP|156.63.49.7|2020|10.91.20.7|25) (mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us ESMTP 
Sendmail 8.12.10/8.12.10; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:58:00 -0500)

Return-path: <brent_s at blackriver.k12.oh.us>
Received: from TCP-DAEMON.LEECA.ORG by LEECA.ORG (PMDF V6.1-1 #30717)
  id <01LH59MT8NXE002YY3 at LEECA.ORG>; Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:53:01 -0400 
(EDT)
Received: from CONVERSION-DAEMON.LEECA.ORG by LEECA.ORG (PMDF V6.1-1 
#30717)
  id <01LH59MSY9E8000EZ3 at LEECA.ORG> for
  br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us; Fri,
  12 Nov 2004 11:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from blackriver.k12.oh.us ([10.91.20.3])
  by LEECA.ORG (PMDF V6.1-1 #30717) with ESMTP id 
<01LH59MSNBKK002T9N at LEECA.ORG>
  for br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us; Fri,
  12 Nov 2004 11:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:54:50 -0500
From: Brent Shafer <brent_s at blackriver.k12.oh.us>
Subject: Re: confirm a5819382b0121a2823b076cf1b7921bf560a0991
In-reply-to: 
<mailman.0.1095968491.3084.br_schools at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us>
To: br_schools-request at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us
Message-id: 
<fc.0119ece10000d7a73b9aca0096dca746.d7a8 at blackriver.k12.oh.us>
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
X-FC-SERVER-TZ: 15729388
References: 
<mailman.0.1095968491.3084.br_schools at mail.blackriver.k12.oh.us>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 12 20:51:18 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:51:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <464F5F99-34D5-11D9-910A-000D93AFF428@leeca.org>
Message-ID: <PC172220041112115118046873bb64c6@Notebook>

Brent Shafer wrote:

>I'm almost there!!!  My Mailman server is sending out confirmation 
>emails, but the reply address is being bounced by my SMTP server.  I'm 
>assuming that the alias list that was generated when I first created 
>the Mailman list needs to be installed, but I'm not sure where to paste 
>that information.  Any help would be greatly appreciated...  the error 
>email I'm getting back is pasted below.


It appears from the bounce message you included that your MTA is
Sendmail. Read the README.SENDMAIL document in the top level directory
of the source distribution.

Also visit the FAQ wizard -

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

and read articles 1.7, 3.14 and 4.49.

Also, please read article 1.22.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sbalmos at simunex.com  Sat Nov 13 00:18:17 2004
From: sbalmos at simunex.com (Scott Balmos)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:18:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some requirements questions
Message-ID: <419544B9.7050209@simunex.com>

Hi all,

Some of my questions about using Mailman have already been answered in 
the FAQ. Others, I have here. Let's see what can be answered. :)

1) Can a list be set to refuse any subscribing/unsubscribing action? I 
intend to use the LDAP adapter, so subscribing/unsubscribing actions are 
both unnecessary, but also undesirable.

2) Say I have a list mixed with some subscribers who should, and some 
subscriber who should not, have posting access to the list. I am 
assuming this means the only way I can do this is to have all of the 
can-post subscribers be explicitly listed in the posting rights 
preferences? In this case, if/when one of those can-post subscribers 
changes their email address in the LDAP directory, do I have to also 
manually go into all the lists that they're members of, and somehow 
manually (through human intervention, or extra code in my LDAP manager 
web-app) change their email addresses in there too, or does Mailman 
somehow "realize" that it's still the same person, but with an updated 
address.

3) Since my native mail server is Cyrus, many of my users use the 
username+folder at blah extended address syntax in order to directly 
deliver mailing list posts to a specific folder in their IMAP store. 
Messages coming from this user, obviously, will look like they're from 
username at blah, *not* username+folder at blah as stored in the subscriber 
list. Is there any way to get Mailman to recognize this (maybe by 
stripping off the extended username after the + sign)? Whereabouts in 
the code would I look for this?

4) Can an umbrella list have its own set of explicit posters? Say I have 
lists A, B, and C, which have explicit posting rights given to some of 
their subscribers. Now I have umbrella list Foo, containing those three 
lists. The only person who should have posting rights to this umbrella 
is Joe Blow, who is not a subscriber of A, B, or C. Actually, more 
generally, can the umbrella list have a combination of both individual 
subscribers, and other lists, and then one of those umbrella subscribers 
be given explicit posting access?

5) Can Mailman pull list subscriber data from multiple sources? In my 
setup, I have the normal subscribers, who should have posting access, in 
LDAP, and then a set of "observer" can't-post subscribers in an SQL 
table. Is it possible to combine LDAP & SQL subscriber lists for a 
single mailing list like this?

Sorry for the long-winded nature of this post. Thanks for the info!

--Scott Balmos




From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 13 01:30:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 16:30:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some requirements questions
In-Reply-To: <419544B9.7050209@simunex.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411121630140312f0a26a66@msapiro>

Scott Balmos wrote:
>
>Some of my questions about using Mailman have already been answered in 
>the FAQ. Others, I have here. Let's see what can be answered. :)

First, I have know knowledge of or experience with any LDAP
MemberAdaptor or how it might change my answers so beware.

>1) Can a list be set to refuse any subscribing/unsubscribing action? I 
>intend to use the LDAP adapter, so subscribing/unsubscribing actions are 
>both unnecessary, but also undesirable.

Lists can be set so subscription requires owner approval, but then the
owner has to reject them, but the owner can supply an informative
message.

There is a ban_list of addresses prevented from subscribing. An entry
in this list can be a pattern such as ^.*$ which prevents anyone from
subscribing, but you may or may not like the reject message.

>2) Say I have a list mixed with some subscribers who should, and some 
>subscriber who should not, have posting access to the list. I am 
>assuming this means the only way I can do this is to have all of the 
>can-post subscribers be explicitly listed in the posting rights 
>preferences?

That's one way to do it. Perhaps a better way is to moderate all
members except those allowed to post and either reject or discard
posts from moderated members. I *guess* the moderation bit would have
to be part of the LDAP directory and be returned by the LDAP
MemberAdaptor. That solves the issue below.

Yet another way to do this is moderate everyone and allow only posts
with an Approved: "header" as discussed in FAQ articles 3.11 and 3.34.

>In this case, if/when one of those can-post subscribers 
>changes their email address in the LDAP directory, do I have to also 
>manually go into all the lists that they're members of, and somehow 
>manually (through human intervention, or extra code in my LDAP manager 
>web-app) change their email addresses in there too, or does Mailman 
>somehow "realize" that it's still the same person, but with an updated 
>address.
>
>3) Since my native mail server is Cyrus, many of my users use the 
>username+folder at blah extended address syntax in order to directly 
>deliver mailing list posts to a specific folder in their IMAP store. 
>Messages coming from this user, obviously, will look like they're from 
>username at blah, *not* username+folder at blah as stored in the subscriber 
>list. Is there any way to get Mailman to recognize this (maybe by 
>stripping off the extended username after the + sign)? Whereabouts in 
>the code would I look for this?

Only with full personalization enabled are posts addressed To: the
member. Otherwise, the To: header is unchanged and may have the list
and other addresses in it. So if you're not going to enable full
personalization, there's no need to have username+folder addresses in
the member list. If you want this addressing, you have to enable full
personalization which has performance considerations.

There may be other conflicts with the "+" addressing. Mailman sends
bounce probes with VERP like sender addresses that look like
listname-bounces+user=user.domain at list.domain (user=user.domain is the
members e-mail with "@" changed to"="). Mailman can also be configured
to send other messages with VERP like senders.

>4) Can an umbrella list have its own set of explicit posters?

Yes.

>Say I have 
>lists A, B, and C, which have explicit posting rights given to some of 
>their subscribers. Now I have umbrella list Foo, containing those three 
>lists. The only person who should have posting rights to this umbrella 
>is Joe Blow, who is not a subscriber of A, B, or C. Actually, more 
>generally, can the umbrella list have a combination of both individual 
>subscribers, and other lists, and then one of those umbrella subscribers 
>be given explicit posting access?

Yes. This is true whether posting rights are conferred by Approved:
"header", or lack of moderation. Also, specific non-members can be
given posting rights.

>5) Can Mailman pull list subscriber data from multiple sources? In my 
>setup, I have the normal subscribers, who should have posting access, in 
>LDAP, and then a set of "observer" can't-post subscribers in an SQL 
>table. Is it possible to combine LDAP & SQL subscriber lists for a 
>single mailing list like this?

This is up to the MemberAdaptor and whatever it can do.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From allen at circleofa.com  Fri Nov 12 20:02:13 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 11:02:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicates and list-in-list
Message-ID: <BDBA48B5.763A%allen@circleofa.com>

Suppose I have two mailing lists, ListA and ListB. Some individuals are on
both lists, but most of the addresses are unique to one or the other list.

Now, suppose I set up a third list, ListC, that consists of two members:

    listA at mydomain.com
    listB at mydomain.com

What happens to addresses that are on both lists? Do the recipients get two
copies of everything sent to ListC? Or are duplicates filtered out
automatically, so each recipient receives just one copy?
-- 
Your companion on the journey,
Allen Watson

The Circle of Atonement, P.O. Box 4238, W. Sedona, AZ 86340
<http://www.circleofa.com>
"Whom you forgive is free, and what you give you share. Forgive the sins
your brother thinks he has committed, and all the guilt you think you see in
him." (A Course in Miracles, T-19.IV(D.i).15:9-10)






From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 13 03:30:50 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 18:30:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicates and list-in-list
In-Reply-To: <BDBA48B5.763A%allen@circleofa.com>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111218305008905358e78c@msapiro>

Allen Watson wrote:

>Suppose I have two mailing lists, ListA and ListB. Some individuals are on
>both lists, but most of the addresses are unique to one or the other list.
>
>Now, suppose I set up a third list, ListC, that consists of two members:
>
>    listA at mydomain.com
>    listB at mydomain.com
>
>What happens to addresses that are on both lists? Do the recipients get two
>copies of everything sent to ListC? Or are duplicates filtered out
>automatically, so each recipient receives just one copy?

Duplicates are not filtered. Those who are members of both listA and
listB will receive two copies of each post to listC.

See FAQ article 3.5 for one way to work around this.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sbalmos at simunex.com  Sat Nov 13 04:50:54 2004
From: sbalmos at simunex.com (Scott Balmos)
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 22:50:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some requirements questions
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411121630140312f0a26a66@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411121630140312f0a26a66@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4195849E.1040808@simunex.com>

Thanks for the answers. A few clarifications below. I'm rather familiar 
with Sympa, so a lot of the counterexamples are from it, unfortunately. :/

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Scott Balmos wrote:
>  
>
>>1) Can a list be set to refuse any subscribing/unsubscribing action? I 
>>intend to use the LDAP adapter, so subscribing/unsubscribing actions are 
>>both unnecessary, but also undesirable.
>>    
>>
>
>Lists can be set so subscription requires owner approval, but then the
>owner has to reject them, but the owner can supply an informative
>message.
>
>There is a ban_list of addresses prevented from subscribing. An entry
>in this list can be a pattern such as ^.*$ which prevents anyone from
>subscribing, but you may or may not like the reject message.
>
>  
>
Igg... Sounds nasty. Sympa has a subscribe_option & unsubscribe_option 
named "closed" which outright refused all requests. I guess ban_list 
would work for subscribers. Unsubscribing is what I'm worried about. 
Most of my lists will be in LDAP and SQL. Some of them are "managed", 
which means they're really supposed to be admin'd through my web app's 
list manager, not in Mailman's admin interface. A person's not supposed 
to be able to unsubscribe on their own. For one, if I'm reading right, 
this would cause the LDAP MemberAdaptor to bomb, because it's read-only 
(attempting to delete a record from LDAP?). And for SQL... Supposedly it 
would delete, but I don't want that to happen.

Maybe someone else on the list has a better idea to handle this? :)

>>2) Say I have a list mixed with some subscribers who should, and some 
>>subscriber who should not, have posting access to the list. I am 
>>assuming this means the only way I can do this is to have all of the 
>>can-post subscribers be explicitly listed in the posting rights 
>>preferences?
>>    
>>
>
>That's one way to do it. Perhaps a better way is to moderate all
>members except those allowed to post and either reject or discard
>posts from moderated members. I *guess* the moderation bit would have
>to be part of the LDAP directory and be returned by the LDAP
>MemberAdaptor. That solves the issue below.
>
>Yet another way to do this is moderate everyone and allow only posts
>with an Approved: "header" as discussed in FAQ articles 3.11 and 3.34.
>
>  
>
I honestly like the first suggestion. But I'm completely unfamiliar with 
Mailman's internals, and there doesn't seem to be any type of internal 
design document or such for me to decipher such. I'm moderately familiar 
with Python itself. But I quickly went cross-eyed looking at some of 
Mailman's source. :) Any hints on where to start with this? What parts 
of MemberAdaptor handle the user moderation bit? Bad enough I have to 
find a suitable attribute in the LDAP object classes to store this. :D

One thing I just realized is that the LDAP store would have to store the 
moderation bit *per user per list*. I can't just set a "global" 
moderation bit on the user record itself, that wouldn't make sense. More 
"internals" question, then. Where, or rather how, is the list moderation 
settings stored anyway? I'm assuming MemberAdaptors could be written all 
over the place for lists, but the list-specific stuff, like moderation 
bits, are still stored in some internal DB.

This is starting to look like a nasty rewrite of the LDAP & SQL 
MemberAdaptors. And this "explicit posting rights" feature really was 
what I thought would win me over from Sympa to Mailman.

>>In this case, if/when one of those can-post subscribers 
>>changes their email address in the LDAP directory, do I have to also 
>>manually go into all the lists that they're members of, and somehow 
>>manually (through human intervention, or extra code in my LDAP manager 
>>web-app) change their email addresses in there too, or does Mailman 
>>somehow "realize" that it's still the same person, but with an updated 
>>address.
>>
>>3) Since my native mail server is Cyrus, many of my users use the 
>>username+folder at blah extended address syntax in order to directly 
>>deliver mailing list posts to a specific folder in their IMAP store. 
>>Messages coming from this user, obviously, will look like they're from 
>>username at blah, *not* username+folder at blah as stored in the subscriber 
>>list. Is there any way to get Mailman to recognize this (maybe by 
>>stripping off the extended username after the + sign)? Whereabouts in 
>>the code would I look for this?
>>    
>>
>
>Only with full personalization enabled are posts addressed To: the
>member. Otherwise, the To: header is unchanged and may have the list
>and other addresses in it. So if you're not going to enable full
>personalization, there's no need to have username+folder addresses in
>the member list. If you want this addressing, you have to enable full
>personalization which has performance considerations.
>
>There may be other conflicts with the "+" addressing. Mailman sends
>bounce probes with VERP like sender addresses that look like
>listname-bounces+user=user.domain at list.domain (user=user.domain is the
>members e-mail with "@" changed to"="). Mailman can also be configured
>to send other messages with VERP like senders.
>
>  
>
Err... Okay... The second paragraph I understand. Though really, those 
addresses shouldn't be necessary. Like one page says (I forget where), 
if you have bouncing addresses in your enterprise LDAP directory, you've 
got bigger problems. Likewise for unsubscribe and other "dynamic" 
management addresses, as I said I didn't want them.

The first paragraph I think we confused each other. The address that 
Mailman would have in its list subscriber DB would be user+foo at blah, so 
that the subscriber's MTA (Postfix) receives that address in the 
envelope-receiver, and delivers accordingly into the folder. It is not 
dependent on the To: header line, which can be whatever it wants. No 
personalization necessary. What I'm more concerned about is from the 
subscriber to Mailman. In that direction, the user's mail client has set 
up just user at blah, like normal. Mailman, thus, receives posts as such, 
and because it has user+foo at blah in its subscriber db, not user at blah, 
the post looks like it's coming from a non-subscriber. I was wondering 
if there was a config variable or something to handle this, or where in 
the post handling code does the subscriber-to-email matching take place, 
so I can possibly hack this?

>>5) Can Mailman pull list subscriber data from multiple sources? In my 
>>setup, I have the normal subscribers, who should have posting access, in 
>>LDAP, and then a set of "observer" can't-post subscribers in an SQL 
>>table. Is it possible to combine LDAP & SQL subscriber lists for a 
>>single mailing list like this?
>>    
>>
>
>This is up to the MemberAdaptor and whatever it can do.
>
>  
>
Okay... I guess it's better to ask if we can have multiple 
MemberAdaptors per list? I see there is an LDAP MemberAdaptor and an SQL 
MemberAdaptor. Can I theoretically define both in extend.py for the list 
somehow? Honestly grasping at straws because I'm so new to Mailman. 
Sympa was easy, as you just kept defining separate include_user_data_* 
paragraphs for each data source of a list.

Sorry for all the constant questions. Mailman, right now, is a black box 
to me, despite my somewhat working knowledge of Python.

--Scott



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 13 13:21:10 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 13:21:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Some requirements questions
In-Reply-To: <4195849E.1040808@simunex.com>
References: <PC1722200411121630140312f0a26a66@msapiro>
	<4195849E.1040808@simunex.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071cbdbbaba709e9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:50 PM -0500 2004-11-12, Scott Balmos wrote:

>  The first paragraph I think we confused each other. The address that
>  Mailman would have in its list subscriber DB would be user+foo at blah, so
>  that the subscriber's MTA (Postfix) receives that address in the
>  envelope-receiver, and delivers accordingly into the folder.

	True.

>                                                               It is
>  not dependent on the To: header line, which can be whatever it wants.

	If you're using full personalization, then the envelope recipient 
and the "To:" header will be the same.  There's no way around that, 
unless you want to make source code modifications.

	Otherwise, the "To:" header remains whatever it was, and the 
envelope recipient address has the "+" extension.

>  No personalization necessary. What I'm more concerned about is from
>  the subscriber to Mailman. In that direction, the user's mail client
>  has set up just user at blah, like normal. Mailman, thus, receives posts
>  as such, and because it has user+foo at blah in its subscriber db, not
>  user at blah, the post looks like it's coming from a non-subscriber.

	Unless the subscriber configures their MUA to make sure that it 
always submits messages as user+detail at example.com when submitting to 
the list, then this is an issue.

>  I was wondering if there was a config variable or something to handle
>  this, or where in the post handling code does the subscriber-to-email
>  matching take place, so I can possibly hack this?

	The typical Mailman way to solve this problem is to subscribe 
both addresses to the list, and then set one of them to NOMAIL.  This 
way the subscriber gets to control their own effective "whitelist" 
entry.

	Otherwise, you have to deal with whitelisting the envelope sender 
address separately, which is a pain.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From drjones at vii.com  Sat Nov 13 16:00:54 2004
From: drjones at vii.com (Dr. Jones)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 08:00:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't switch over...help
Message-ID: <419621A6.10001@vii.com>

When I mail a note to this list: 2ls at sanchiro.com I get the following 
error message:

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

  2ls at sanchiro.com
    Unrouteable address


I no longer have the domain 'sanchiro.com' up and running. I have also 
switched ISP's since setting up this particular mail list.

What I seek help with is changing the address, to one of three domains 
which I do currently own, to handle mail list traffic for this and other 
lists.

How do I proceed?

Scott

-- 
Dr. Scott S. Jones
Hands-On Chiropractic 
IRC: irc.freenode.net #utah
Yahoo: sanchiro12




From david at collegesailing.org  Sat Nov 13 17:15:44 2004
From: david at collegesailing.org (David Dabney)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 11:15:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-network posting errors
Message-ID: <CCEMKPEOIGNFKLEAJDDMCENOCDAA.david@collegesailing.org>

Hello all,

I'm new to mailman and have installed it on a hosting service's linux
machine using sendmail.

Everything seems to work properly except that when I try to send mail to the
list from a computer not on the local network, whether it be subscribe,
post, etc..., it does not work.

Any ideas? I've dug and dug through documentation and forums and have not
found anyone run into this problem.

Thanks in advance for a quick response!

-Dave

-------------------------
David Dabney
ICSA Webmaster
david at collegesailing.org
-------------------------



From r.barrett at ftel.co.uk  Sat Nov 13 22:42:24 2004
From: r.barrett at ftel.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 21:42:24 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scramble e-mail addresses in archives
Message-ID: <E7CF97EF-35BC-11D9-A868-000A957C9A50@ftel.co.uk>

Brad

you said in a a post on the subject on Thu Nov 11 15:15:09 CET 2004:

<quote>
If you want something more than what this option provides, you'll
need to make source code modifications to Mailman in order to obtain
your desired results.  If you go that direction, we would appreciate
your contributing those changes back to the project.
</quote>

I generated this MM 2.1.3 patch (#850805 - Aggressive anti email  
address harvesting measure) a while back, which will probably work OK  
with later versions of 2.1.x:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/? 
func=detail&aid=850805&group_id=103&atid=300103

It was not approved of by some mailman developers but it did have the  
merit of masking pretty much everything (_all_ headers and message  
content) that could be used for harvesting email addresses from the  
archived messages without actually modifying the messages in the  
archives, i.e. it operates on what is delivered through the web  
interface making no irreversible changes to the underlying data.

I am sure it could be improved on but it might be useful to some people  
with concerns in this area.

Richard
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Barrett                               http://www.openinfo.co.uk



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 14 02:21:19 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:21:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't switch over...help
In-Reply-To: <419621A6.10001@vii.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411131721190812b947d2bf@msapiro>

Dr. Jones wrote:
>
>What I seek help with is changing the address, to one of three domains 
>which I do currently own, to handle mail list traffic for this and other 
>lists.

See the FAQ wizard

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Relevant articles include 3.4 and 4.29.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 14 02:29:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:29:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Non-network posting errors
In-Reply-To: <CCEMKPEOIGNFKLEAJDDMCENOCDAA.david@collegesailing.org>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411131729020421b947d127@msapiro>

David Dabney wrote:
>
>Everything seems to work properly except that when I try to send mail to the
>list from a computer not on the local network, whether it be subscribe,
>post, etc..., it does not work.

In what way does it fail? Do you get an "undeliverable" notice back in
response to your mail?

>Any ideas? I've dug and dug through documentation and forums and have not
>found anyone run into this problem.

Check the sendmail log. Also see FAQ article 3.14.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From marco.giardina at tin.it  Sun Nov 14 02:29:47 2004
From: marco.giardina at tin.it (Marco Giardina)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 02:29:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - Change language
Message-ID: <AB917E92-35DC-11D9-BE3D-000A95E8A896@tin.it>

Hello list,

so i have installed a Mailman release 2.12 and it start in UK language. 
Please can make to modified it in default italian language?

TIA
Marco Giardina



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Nov 14 02:10:19 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 02:10:19 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Scramble e-mail addresses in archives
In-Reply-To: <E7CF97EF-35BC-11D9-A868-000A957C9A50@ftel.co.uk>
References: <E7CF97EF-35BC-11D9-A868-000A957C9A50@ftel.co.uk>
Message-ID: <p06200724bdbc60c97df2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:42 PM +0000 2004-11-13, Richard Barrett wrote:

>  I generated this MM 2.1.3 patch (#850805 - Aggressive anti email address
>  harvesting measure) a while back, which will probably work OK with later
>  versions of 2.1.x:

	Very cool!  Did you want to create a small FAQ entry about this?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 14 02:57:52 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 17:57:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman - Change language
In-Reply-To: <AB917E92-35DC-11D9-BE3D-000A95E8A896@tin.it>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411131757520078635b3742@msapiro>

Marco Giardina wrote:
>
>so i have installed a Mailman release 2.12 and it start in UK language. 
>Please can make to modified it in default italian language?

DEFAULT_SERVER_LANGUAGE = 'it'

in mm_cfg.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From decibel at decibel.org  Sun Nov 14 07:57:08 2004
From: decibel at decibel.org (Jim C. Nasby)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 00:57:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain names and virtual domains
Message-ID: <20041114065708.GH77327@decibel.org>

I'm trying to setup Mailman on flake.decibel.org with the lists at
lists.decibel.org. I've tried setting DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to both
decibel.org and lists.decibel.org, but postfix is only responding to
list at decibel.org (where I get a permission error).
list at lists.decibel.org gets me an email from postfix about a mail loop.

Do I need to manually add the domain to the aliases file? Will that file
ever get changed after list creation?

Also, is there any way to host lists on different virtual domains, or
the FAQ about needing the commercial version still true?
-- 
Jim C. Nasby, Database Consultant               decibel at decibel.org 
Give your computer some brain candy! www.distributed.net Team #1828

Windows: "Where do you want to go today?"
Linux: "Where do you want to go tomorrow?"
FreeBSD: "Are you guys coming, or what?"


From jan.eri at disnorge.no  Sun Nov 14 15:54:31 2004
From: jan.eri at disnorge.no (Jan Eri)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 15:54:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header entries
Message-ID: <419771A7.8000400@disnorge.no>

Hi,

we are using Mailman 2.1.4, but we are handling subscription and 
unsubscription with a separate system. Is there a way to remove the 
List-Subscribe: and List-Unsubscribe: lines from the header of the 
messages from the list?

I did browse tha FAQ, and I got a feeling this may not be easily 
possible. But I hope you will allow me asking the question anyway.

regards,
Jan

-- 
DIS-Norge
http://www.disnorge.no/



From matt-lists-mm at ire.org  Sun Nov 14 15:58:15 2004
From: matt-lists-mm at ire.org (Matthew Dickinson)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 08:58:15 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Lists
In-Reply-To: <PC17222004111013415102184a4e97ad@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200411141458.iAEEwAi3014287@svr1.nicar.org>

On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> I have a number of "hidden" non-public lists on my system. 
>> Consequently they do not appear in the "Admin Overview Page."  Is
>> there a way to get them to appear there, but still be hidden to
>> normal users?   
>> 
> 
> Short of hacking admin.py to skip the "advertised" test or doing
> something even more involved, no.

It would be nice though for the global list admin ID/user to have a page
showing all lists, and then each of them clickable to go to the listinfo or
the admin pages for that list.

In essence, after logging on, the global administrator, can see all of the
lists that are hidden with a similar format to now but if the lists were
public.

This could be further enhanced upon by adding users/groups who are able to
see a selection of these lists when logged on - in essence a lower-level of
admin, just managing a subset of groups.

Thanks,

Matthew Dickinson



From SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net  Sun Nov 14 16:42:36 2004
From: SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net (Speedy Gonzalis)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 10:42:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header entries
In-Reply-To: <419771A7.8000400@disnorge.no>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041114103710.027ff5f0@pop.SoftHome.net>

Go to your lists admin page.
At the bottom there is an option that says "Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) headers?"
Select "No"
Press the "submit your changes" button.

You may want to do the same with the "List-Post: header" option as well.

Tim



At 09:54 AM 11/14/2004, Jan Eri wrote:
>Hi,
>
>we are using Mailman 2.1.4, but we are handling subscription and unsubscription with a separate system. Is there a way to remove the List-Subscribe: and List-Unsubscribe: lines from the header of the messages from the list?



From jan.eri at disnorge.no  Sun Nov 14 16:45:26 2004
From: jan.eri at disnorge.no (Jan Eri)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:45:26 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header entries
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041114103710.027ff5f0@pop.SoftHome.net>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20041114103710.027ff5f0@pop.SoftHome.net>
Message-ID: <41977D96.2010704@disnorge.no>

I'm embarassed, found it after I sent my question. Thanks anyway Tim!

regards,
Jan

Speedy Gonzalis wrote:

>Go to your lists admin page.
>At the bottom there is an option that says "Should messages from this mailing list include the RFC 2369 (i.e. List-*) headers?"
>Select "No"
>Press the "submit your changes" button.
>
>You may want to do the same with the "List-Post: header" option as well.
>
>Tim
>  
>


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Nov 14 16:45:55 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:45:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Header entries
In-Reply-To: <419771A7.8000400@disnorge.no>
References: <419771A7.8000400@disnorge.no>
Message-ID: <p0620072abdbd2d336740@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:54 PM +0100 2004-11-14, Jan Eri wrote:

>  we are using Mailman 2.1.4, but we are handling subscription and
>  unsubscription with a separate system. Is there a way to remove the
>  List-Subscribe: and List-Unsubscribe: lines from the header of the
>  messages from the list?

	From the web admin interface for your mailing list, go down to 
the bottom of the "General Options" page.  You will see some radio 
buttons labeled:

		Should messages from this mailing list include the  RFC 2369
		(i.e. List-*) headers?  Yes is highly  recommended.

	And:

		Should postings include the List-Post: header?


	In your case, you probably want to set these radio buttons to 
"No", although they will probably default to be "Yes".

	See also Mailman FAQ entry 4.1 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Nov 14 16:41:17 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:41:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Domain names and virtual domains
In-Reply-To: <20041114065708.GH77327@decibel.org>
References: <20041114065708.GH77327@decibel.org>
Message-ID: <p06200729bdbd2c6135c4@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:57 AM -0600 2004-11-14, Jim C. Nasby wrote:

>  I'm trying to setup Mailman on flake.decibel.org with the lists at
>  lists.decibel.org. I've tried setting DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST to both
>  decibel.org and lists.decibel.org, but postfix is only responding to
>  list at decibel.org (where I get a permission error).
>  list at lists.decibel.org gets me an email from postfix about a mail loop.

	These are postfix configuration issues, not problems with Mailman.

>  Do I need to manually add the domain to the aliases file? Will that file
>  ever get changed after list creation?

	You will need to modify your configuration to support those 
domains, yes.  There are probably several ways to do that, and you 
need to choose which one works best for you.

	That said, if you peruse the README.POSTFIX file that comes with 
Mailman, you should see one recommended method that has worked well 
for others.

>  Also, is there any way to host lists on different virtual domains, or
>  the FAQ about needing the commercial version still true?

	I'm not sure what you mean.  The FAQ entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp> 
is definitely still applicable.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From madduck at madduck.net  Sun Nov 14 22:45:11 2004
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:45:11 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to set everyone's moderation bit
Message-ID: <20041114214511.GA24640@cirrus.madduck.net>

I have a list of 1400 users and I want to set everyone's moderation
bit. I tried using an automated script with wget, but apparently,
Mailman (2.1.5-1.1, from Debian) does not want to honour such
requests: setting the 'mod' bit and submitting the changes does not
seem to have an effect; the bit is not set when the page reloads.

So now I am looking for a way to set everyone's moderation bit, e.g.
with withlist, but I cannot figure out how to get at the members
list. MailList.getMembers seems to exist:

  <bound method OldStyleMemberships.getMembers of <Mailman.OldStyleMemberships.OldStyleMemberships instance at 0x4061174c>>

But I do not want to deal with OldStyleMemberships, and I also did
not find a way to set the moderation bit there.

Any hints are warmly welcomed!

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
it's practically impossible to look at a penguin and feel angry.
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From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Nov 14 23:24:50 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 14:24:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending held message notifications
Message-ID: <20041114220601.M19152@enabled.com>

mailman-2.1.5
FreeBSD-4.9

okay I am at a loss here and sure how to fix this problem.  there is a
maillist that is not sending administrative notifications to the
administrators and moderators when a moderated member posts to the list. 
There is a message to the poster but the administrators.

any clues how I can figure out from the logs what is going on here - because
the only thing that has information is the vette logs but there is no details
of all the admin email notifications that get sent when a message is held. 

where do I go from here?

cheers,

Noah



From angusf at mac.com  Sun Nov 14 23:31:32 2004
From: angusf at mac.com (Angus)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:31:32 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and suddenly last
	night it stopped.
Message-ID: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>

Mail is working, List subscription is working. Mails to the list are 
not working.

Its mailman 2.12 and and my server also has CLAMAV and Spam Assasin run 
by mail scanner.

Before I tear my hair out can anyone point me at some basic things I 
can check. Its been working perfectly for over a year in this config 
sending to a 400 strong list. Nothing has changed that I am aware of on 
the Cobalt Raq 550r server its on.

Angus



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Mon Nov 15 00:43:38 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 08:43:38 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to set everyone's moderation bit
In-Reply-To: <20041114214511.GA24640@cirrus.madduck.net>
References: <20041114214511.GA24640@cirrus.madduck.net>
Message-ID: <4197EDAA.1050108@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Go to the admin/<listname>/members page and you will find an interface
to set all members' moderation bit.

martin f krafft wrote:

> I have a list of 1400 users and I want to set everyone's moderation
> bit. 

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From lists at mindlace.net  Mon Nov 15 01:05:00 2004
From: lists at mindlace.net (ethan fremen)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 19:05:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hotmail delivery status notification not processed
Message-ID: <4197F2AC.2070103@mindlace.net>

Hello,

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5, and I notice that all the DSN's that come from
hotmail are sent on to the administrator.

As far as I can tell they comply exactly with the RFC. I've included a
component below.

Maybe it's that DSN/check() is doing a get() instead of get_all() for
the Action? I'm not sure.

Let me know if there's anything I could do to help debug this. I'm not
on the list so please CC me in any reply.

--9B095B5ADSN=_01C4C90E84E48D34000878FBmc10?s12.hotmail
Content-Type: message/delivery-status

Reporting-MTA: dns;mc10-s12.hotmail.com
Received-From-MTA: dns;mc10-f12.hotmail.com
Arrival-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:08:17 -0800

Original-Recipient:
Final-Recipient: rfc822;XXX at hotmail.com
Action: delayed
Status: 4.4.7
Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800

Original-Recipient:
Final-Recipient: rfc822;YYY at hotmail.com
Action: delayed
Status: 4.4.7
Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800

Original-Recipient:
Final-Recipient: rfc822;ZZZ at hotmail.com
Action: delayed
Status: 4.4.7
Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800

--
~mindlace



From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Nov 15 01:22:14 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 16:22:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and suddenly
	last night it stopped.
In-Reply-To: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
References: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20041115002214.M7350@enabled.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 22:31:32 +0000, Angus wrote
> Mail is working, List subscription is working. Mails to the list are 
> not working.
> 
> Its mailman 2.12 and and my server also has CLAMAV and Spam Assasin 
> run by mail scanner.
> 
> Before I tear my hair out can anyone point me at some basic things I 
> can check. Its been working perfectly for over a year in this config 
> sending to a 400 strong list. Nothing has changed that I am aware of 
> on the Cobalt Raq 550r server its on.


Angus,

what is your MTA - sendmail and queue mail?  Have you just tried to restart
the qrunner daemon and see if anything clears?  Anything recently added to
your ~mailman/logs/error logs?

cheers,

Noah



> 
> Angus
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 15 02:15:11 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:15:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending held message notifications
In-Reply-To: <20041114220601.M19152@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411141715110020cc05b75f@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>okay I am at a loss here and sure how to fix this problem.  there is a
>maillist that is not sending administrative notifications to the
>administrators and moderators when a moderated member posts to the list. 
>There is a message to the poster but the administrators.
>
>any clues how I can figure out from the logs what is going on here - because
>the only thing that has information is the vette logs but there is no details
>of all the admin email notifications that get sent when a message is held. 
>
>where do I go from here?

The notices are sent first from sitelist-bounces to listname-owner
where they should be received by Mailman and resent to the
owners/moderators.

The Mailman smtp log should show both transactions. You imply that this
is one list and other lists are working in this respect. If this is
correct, this seems to implicate the listname-owner address. Check the
MTA aliases and also the MTA logs for problems with this address.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 15 02:28:34 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 02:28:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hotmail delivery status notification not processed
In-Reply-To: <4197F2AC.2070103@mindlace.net>
References: <4197F2AC.2070103@mindlace.net>
Message-ID: <p06200730bdbdb63583b8@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:05 PM -0500 2004-11-14, ethan fremen wrote:

>  I'm using Mailman 2.1.5, and I notice that all the DSN's that come from
>  hotmail are sent on to the administrator.

	Yeah, I'm fighting this same problem myself.  I'm not a 
programmer (and I've never done anything with Python), so my ability 
to debug these is limited.

>  Let me know if there's anything I could do to help debug this. I'm not
>  on the list so please CC me in any reply.

	If anyone comes up with a solution to this problem, please let me know.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 15 02:30:28 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:30:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hotmail delivery status notification not processed
In-Reply-To: <4197F2AC.2070103@mindlace.net>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411141730280630cc05b9d2@msapiro>

ethan fremen wrote:
>
>I'm using Mailman 2.1.5, and I notice that all the DSN's that come from
>hotmail are sent on to the administrator.
>
>As far as I can tell they comply exactly with the RFC. I've included a
>component below.
>
>Maybe it's that DSN/check() is doing a get() instead of get_all() for
>the Action? I'm not sure.
>
>Let me know if there's anything I could do to help debug this. I'm not
>on the list so please CC me in any reply.
>
>--9B095B5ADSN=_01C4C90E84E48D34000878FBmc10?s12.hotmail
>Content-Type: message/delivery-status
>
>Reporting-MTA: dns;mc10-s12.hotmail.com
>Received-From-MTA: dns;mc10-f12.hotmail.com
>Arrival-Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2004 12:08:17 -0800
>
>Original-Recipient:
>Final-Recipient: rfc822;XXX at hotmail.com
>Action: delayed
>Status: 4.4.7
>Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800
>
>Original-Recipient:
>Final-Recipient: rfc822;YYY at hotmail.com
>Action: delayed
>Status: 4.4.7
>Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800
>
>Original-Recipient:
>Final-Recipient: rfc822;ZZZ at hotmail.com
>Action: delayed
>Status: 4.4.7
>Will-Retry-Until: Sat, 13 Nov 2004 00:08:17 -0800

I am on Mailman 2.1.4 and I see the same thing with Hotmail, but note
that the "unrecognized" bounces that you show and that I see as well
are delayed delivery warnings. If and when the actual undeliverable
bounce arrives, it is recognized and treated as a bounce.

The more interesting issue to me is what is screwed up with Hotmail.
This only happens with a few Hotmail users, but it happens reliably
with them. Also when the actual undeliverable bounce arrives, the
reason is one Hotmail server is unable to connect to another Hotmail
server.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 15 02:44:54 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:44:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Hidden Lists
In-Reply-To: <200411141458.iAEEwAi3014287@svr1.nicar.org>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411141744540942548fb204@msapiro>

Matthew Dickinson wrote:

>On Wednesday, November 10, 2004 15:42, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>> I have a number of "hidden" non-public lists on my system. 
>>> Consequently they do not appear in the "Admin Overview Page."  Is
>>> there a way to get them to appear there, but still be hidden to
>>> normal users?   
>>> 
>> 
>> Short of hacking admin.py to skip the "advertised" test or doing
>> something even more involved, no.
>
>It would be nice though for the global list admin ID/user to have a page
>showing all lists, and then each of them clickable to go to the listinfo or
>the admin pages for that list.

<snip>

The place to submit Feature Requests/Requests for Enhancement for
Mailman is http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103

There is also useful information at http://www.list.org/devs.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 15 03:03:06 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 03:03:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hotmail delivery status notification not processed
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411141730280630cc05b9d2@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411141730280630cc05b9d2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06200732bdbdbe566b83@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:30 PM -0800 2004-11-14, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  I am on Mailman 2.1.4 and I see the same thing with Hotmail, but note
>  that the "unrecognized" bounces that you show and that I see as well
>  are delayed delivery warnings. If and when the actual undeliverable
>  bounce arrives, it is recognized and treated as a bounce.

	True, but IMO these should be handled correctly by Mailman.  It 
should either ignore all delayed delivery warnings in all known 
formats, or it should treat them as a particular case of a bounce.

>  The more interesting issue to me is what is screwed up with Hotmail.
>  This only happens with a few Hotmail users, but it happens reliably
>  with them.

	I'll have to go back and check, but now that you mention it, I do 
seem to recall that there were a large number of messages which 
always referred to the same recipients.

>              Also when the actual undeliverable bounce arrives, the
>  reason is one Hotmail server is unable to connect to another Hotmail
>  server.

	Now that is something I hadn't noticed.  Thanks for the info!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Nov 15 03:27:46 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:27:46 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending held message notifications
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411141715110020cc05b75f@msapiro>
References: <20041114220601.M19152@enabled.com>
	<PC1722200411141715110020cc05b75f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041115015531.M74939@enabled.com>

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 17:15:11 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >okay I am at a loss here and sure how to fix this problem.  there is a
> >maillist that is not sending administrative notifications to the
> >administrators and moderators when a moderated member posts to the list. 
> >There is a message to the poster but the administrators.
> >
> >any clues how I can figure out from the logs what is going on here - because
> >the only thing that has information is the vette logs but there is no details
> >of all the admin email notifications that get sent when a message is held. 
> >
> >where do I go from here?
> 
> The notices are sent first from sitelist-bounces to listname-owner
> where they should be received by Mailman and resent to the
> owners/moderators.


Thanks Mark,

yeah I am okay at mailing the listname-owner address directly.  so I just need
to Verify that Mailman is able to that as well.  


> 
> The Mailman smtp log should show both transactions. You imply that this
> is one list and other lists are working in this respect. If this is
> correct, this seems to implicate the listname-owner address. Check 
> the MTA aliases and also the MTA logs for problems with this address.
> 


there is only one list that this is happening to - to the best of my
knowledge.  I set up a test list with all members moderated and I see that the
list admins are getting notified properly. 

there are entries in the smtp logs but its difficult for me to decifer what is
going on with them.  I see that when mailman handles the moderated post on my
test list that there are three (3) associated emails in the ~mailman/logs/smtp
logs.

when I look at the logs in regards to the list that is not sending hold
notifications to the moderators/admins there is only one email.

the list name is 18 characters long and with the -owner it makes it 24
characters (without the domain name).  might that have anything to do with it?

what else can I check here?


cheers,

Noah



> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From allen at circleofa.com  Mon Nov 15 03:41:38 2004
From: allen at circleofa.com (Allen Watson)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 18:41:38 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Duplicates and list-in-list
In-Reply-To: <PC17222004111218305008905358e78c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDBD5762.7A57%allen@circleofa.com>

Too bad. I can't use the workaround in the FAQ, because my six lists are on
a pair.com server; I do not have command line access.

I've devised a way to do this (combine the six lists into a single list with
no duplicate addresses) by using the "who" command to get all six lists
mailed to me. I combine these, sort and remove duplicates using BBEdit.
Then, I import the lot into an address book group in Microsoft Entourage,
and mail it. Even with about 1000 entries, Entourage via Earthlink seems to
handle the load OK.

I've thought of setting up a seventh, master list, and updating it each time
we need to use it, rather like your script does. I may go that route. But I
wish there were a simpler way. It is a pain in the neck to have to do this
every time we want to use the "master list." Fortunately, we don't need to
do it that often.


On 11/12/04 6:30 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

>> What happens to addresses that are on both lists? Do the recipients get two
>> copies of everything sent to ListC? Or are duplicates filtered out
>> automatically, so each recipient receives just one copy?
> 
> Duplicates are not filtered. Those who are members of both listA and
> listB will receive two copies of each post to listC.
> 
> See FAQ article 3.5 for one way to work around this.
> 
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

-- 
Your companion on the journey,
Allen Watson

The Circle of Atonement, P.O. Box 4238, W. Sedona, AZ 86340
<http://www.circleofa.com>
"Whom you forgive is free, and what you give you share. Forgive the sins
your brother thinks he has committed, and all the guilt you think you see in
him." (A Course in Miracles, T-19.IV(D.i).15:9-10)






From jwt at onjapan.net  Mon Nov 15 07:27:10 2004
From: jwt at onjapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:27:10 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending held message notifications
In-Reply-To: <20041115015531.M74939@enabled.com>
References: <20041114220601.M19152@enabled.com>
	<PC1722200411141715110020cc05b75f@msapiro>
	<20041115015531.M74939@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <6150DEAF-36CF-11D9-96BE-000A957919FA@onjapan.net>

On Nov 15, 2004, at 11:27, Noah wrote:

> when I look at the logs in regards to the list that is not sending hold
> notifications to the moderators/admins there is only one email.

Do you have that list set so that "Should the list moderators get 
immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices about 
collected ones?" is "No" on the General Options page?  (If set to "No", 
the messages should be mailed out daily by a cron job.  In that case 
you would want to check that Mailman's cron jobs are running properly, 
and check your mail logs around the time the notices are mailed out 
(around 0800 by default).)



From angusf at mac.com  Mon Nov 15 08:04:09 2004
From: angusf at mac.com (Angus)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:04:09 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and suddenly
	last night it stopped.
In-Reply-To: <20041115001725.M95932@enabled.com>
References: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115001725.M95932@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <8C12D92C-36D4-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>

>
> what is your MTA - sendmail and queue mail?  Have you just tried to 
> restart
> the qrunner daemon and see if anything clears?  Anything recently 
> added to
> your ~mailman/logs/error logs?

Its sendmail. I rebooted the server to see if that would clear it.

Something about disk space but theres plenty of disk space on all 
partitions.

Angus



From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Nov 15 08:15:22 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:15:22 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman not sending held message notifications
	[solved]
In-Reply-To: <6150DEAF-36CF-11D9-96BE-000A957919FA@onjapan.net>
References: <20041114220601.M19152@enabled.com>
	<PC1722200411141715110020cc05b75f@msapiro>
	<20041115015531.M74939@enabled.com>
	<6150DEAF-36CF-11D9-96BE-000A957919FA@onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <20041115071459.M79161@enabled.com>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 15:27:10 +0900, Jim Tittsler wrote
> On Nov 15, 2004, at 11:27, Noah wrote:
> 
> > when I look at the logs in regards to the list that is not sending hold
> > notifications to the moderators/admins there is only one email.
> 
> Do you have that list set so that "Should the list moderators get 
> immediate notice of new requests, as well as daily notices about 
> collected ones?" is "No" on the General Options page?  (If set to 
> "No", the messages should be mailed out daily by a cron job.  In 
> that case you would want to check that Mailman's cron jobs are 
> running properly, and check your mail logs around the time the 
> notices are mailed out 
> (around 0800 by default).)

Learn something new every day.  thanks Jim!


cheers,

Noah



From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Nov 15 08:24:49 2004
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 14 Nov 2004 23:24:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and suddenly
	last night it stopped.
In-Reply-To: <8C12D92C-36D4-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
References: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115001725.M95932@enabled.com>
	<8C12D92C-36D4-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
Message-ID: <20041115071537.M10779@enabled.com>

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 07:04:09 +0000, Angus wrote
> >
> > what is your MTA - sendmail and queue mail?  Have you just tried to 
> > restart
> > the qrunner daemon and see if anything clears?  Anything recently 
> > added to
> > your ~mailman/logs/error logs?
> 
> Its sendmail. I rebooted the server to see if that would clear it.
> 
> Something about disk space but theres plenty of disk space on all 
> partitions.



Hi,

possibly you have soft-updates in your /etc/fstab on your /var partition. 
therefore your filesystem is claiming space for unwriten log files, etc.  so
you will not see them physically on the drive.  

reminder - this is not a windblows box - problems are solveable before
rebooting because there are logs, lots of applications to tell you what is
going on, and commands to just get things done.

lsof is a great application to load to see what applications are requiring
space on the partitions.  you could 'lsof | grep var'  to see this.  most
likely it is apache or something eating up room on /var

restarting the daemon and cycling your log files will help.  I do this
nightly.  Newsyslog for freeBSD does well and rotatelogs for Linux is good as
well.

cheers,

Noah
 


> 
> Angus
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From madduck at madduck.net  Mon Nov 15 09:32:04 2004
From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f krafft)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:32:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how to set everyone's moderation bit
In-Reply-To: <4197EDAA.1050108@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <20041114214511.GA24640@cirrus.madduck.net>
	<4197EDAA.1050108@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <20041115083204.GA1314@cirrus.madduck.net>

also sprach Tokio Kikuchi <tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp> [2004.11.15.0043 +0100]:
> Go to the admin/<listname>/members page and you will find an interface
> to set all members' moderation bit.

Oh that was too easy!

-- 
martin;              (greetings from the heart of the sun.)
  \____ echo mailto: !#^."<*>"|tr "<*> mailto:" net at madduck
 
invalid/expired pgp subkeys? use subkeys.pgp.net as keyserver!
spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net
 
may the bluebird of happiness twiddle your bits.
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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 15 09:36:45 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 09:36:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and
	suddenly 	last night it stopped.
In-Reply-To: <20041115071537.M10779@enabled.com>
References: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115001725.M95932@enabled.com>
	<8C12D92C-36D4-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115071537.M10779@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <p06200733bdbe1a4ef9c5@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:24 PM -0800 2004-11-14, Noah wrote:

>  possibly you have soft-updates in your /etc/fstab on your /var partition.
>  therefore your filesystem is claiming space for unwriten log files, etc.  so
>  you will not see them physically on the drive.

	You could have problems with log files that have been deleted but 
which are held open by some process (and therefore the disk space has 
not yet been recovered), regardless of what type of filesystem is 
being used.

	Moreover, the filesystem could have run out of inodes but have 
plenty of disk space available -- a "df -i" should show whether or 
not that was the case, looking in the "ifree" and "%iused" columns.


	Excepting these two nits, the advice is good.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From sythos at sythos.net  Mon Nov 15 14:22:03 2004
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 14:22:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change URL_HOST without change EMAIL_HOST on
	existing mailinglist?
Message-ID: <20041115132203.GA15226@sythos.net>

Hi all,

	I've some mailing list managed by mailman, all the list are
accepted in the domain "mailinglist at sythos.net" but my web domain is
"www.sythos.net".

I found in mm_cfg.py the way to change this in new crate list, but in
old list generated when URL_HOST=EMAIL_HOST how can I change URL_HOST to
www.sythos.net in web (or console) interface?

Second question, in wich way can I set https instead http?

Regards to all
	Sythos


-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments
    


From sysmda at zim.gsu.edu  Mon Nov 15 16:28:18 2004
From: sysmda at zim.gsu.edu (Mike Alberghini)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 10:28:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unicode problems with admindb
Message-ID: <20041115152818.GB22682@zim.gsu.edu>

I'm having some trouble with 2.1.4.  When I try to go to the list admindb
page, I get a "UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)"

I tried deleteing everything for the list in ~mailman/data, with no luck.

The details:

We are running Mailman 2.1.4 on Solaris 8.

http://mailbox.gsu.edu/mailman/admindb/asia-l produces:

Bug in Mailman version 2.1.4

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what happened. Thanks!
Traceback:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/apps/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 228, in main
    num += show_helds_overview(mlist, form)
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py", line 473, in show_helds_overview
    mlist.HandleRequest(id, mm_cfg.DISCARD)
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 184, in HandleRequest
    forward, addr)
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/ListAdmin.py", line 373, in __handlepost
    syslog('vette', note)
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 40, in write
    self.write_ex(kind, msg, args, kws)
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Syslog.py", line 58, in write_ex
    logf.write(msg + '\n')
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Logging/StampedLogger.py", line 73, in write
    Logger.write(self, "%s %s" % (prefix, msg))
  File "/apps/mailman/Mailman/Logging/Logger.py", line 91, in write
    f.write(msg)
UnicodeError: ASCII encoding error: ordinal not in range(128)



Python information:

Variable	Value
sys.version	2.2.1 (#1, Sep 18 2002, 16:36:23) [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (release)]
sys.executable	/apps/python2.2.1/bin/python
sys.prefix	/apps/python2.2.1
sys.exec_prefix	/apps/python2.2.1
sys.path	/apps/python2.2.1
sys.platform	sunos5

Environment variables:

Variable	Value
PATH_INFO 	/asia-l
HTTP_COOKIE 	asia-l+admin=280200000069f9bf9841732800000031363536333934666537303264373635656366393362613237386234613538396665313437316134
SERVER_SOFTWARE 	Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) mod_perl/1.24
PYTHONPATH 	/apps/mailman
SCRIPT_FILENAME 	/apps/mailman/cgi-bin/admindb
SERVER_ADMIN 	root at gsu.edu
SCRIPT_NAME 	/mailman/admindb
SCRIPT_URI 	http://mailbox.gsu.edu/mailman/admindb/asia-l
SERVER_SIGNATURE 	
Apache/1.3.26 Server at mailbox.gsu.edu Port 80
REQUEST_METHOD 	GET
HTTP_HOST 	mailbox.gsu.edu
SCRIPT_URL 	/mailman/admindb/asia-l
SERVER_PROTOCOL 	HTTP/1.1
QUERY_STRING 	
HTTP_CONNECTION 	keep-alive
PATH_TRANSLATED 	/apps/apache/mailbox.gsu.edu-80/htdocs/asia-l
REQUEST_URI 	/mailman/admindb/asia-l
HTTP_ACCEPT 	text/xml,application/xml,application/xhtml+xml,text/html;q=0.9,text/plain;q=0.8,image/png,*/*;q=0.5
HTTP_ACCEPT_CHARSET 	ISO-8859-1,utf-8;q=0.7,*;q=0.7
HTTP_USER_AGENT 	Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; SunOS sun4u; rv:1.7.3) Gecko/20041007 Firefox/0.10.1
TZ 	US/Eastern
SERVER_NAME 	mailbox.gsu.edu
REMOTE_ADDR 	131.96.234.45
REMOTE_PORT 	51807
HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE 	en-us,en;q=0.5
UNIQUE_ID 	QZjJeYNgAgwAAEkNPmU
SERVER_PORT 	80
GATEWAY_INTERFACE 	CGI/1.1
DOCUMENT_ROOT 	/apps/apache/mailbox.gsu.edu-80/htdocs
HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING 	gzip,deflate
SERVER_ADDR 	131.96.2.12
HTTP_KEEP_ALIVE 	300 

Pretty much the same info gets posted to ~mailman/logs/error.

-- 
Michael Alberghini
Software Systems Engineer
Georgia State University
mike at gsu.edu


From mclark at cdtmail.org  Mon Nov 15 19:43:27 2004
From: mclark at cdtmail.org (Michael Clark)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:43:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large Mailman installation?
Message-ID: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>

I am trying to create a Mailman installation with 450 
announcement-only mailing lists, and with around 50 umbrella lists. 
Each announcement list will have between 10 and 500 members. Each 
umbrella list is also announcement only made up of various 
combinations of the smaller announcement lists. Does anyone have any 
advice or experience in a setup like this? Thanks, Michael




-- 
Michael Clark, Webmaster
Center for Democracy and Technology
1634 Eye Street NW, Suite 1100
Washington, DC 20006
voice: 202-637-9800
http://www.cdt.org/

Join our Activist Network! Your participation can make a difference!
http://www.cdt.org/join/


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Mon Nov 15 19:47:58 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:47:58 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List statistics
Message-ID: <DE9FE42D-3736-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>

I am creating a list using Mailman which was previously served by 
topica.com and was wondering if I can now recreate one or two of the 
features they had on offer...

Namely, the ability to publish a regularly updating set of statistics 
on my website with figures for:
    Number of members currently subscribed
    Average number of emails per day
    Number of emails today
(etc)

Please note that I do NOT have access to the actual mailman program as 
it is hosted as a server-wide installation shared by all domains on the 
server, of which I am but one.

Thanks in advance
Pete Bell, UK



From anne at isoc.org  Mon Nov 15 19:46:06 2004
From: anne at isoc.org (Anne Shroeder - Internet Society)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 13:46:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallowing access to previous archives
In-Reply-To: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>
Message-ID: <HGEKLFPEOHKAOBIMHGHPAEOHIGAA.anne@isoc.org>

I need to open up a particular list to a larger group of people; however,
the leaders of the list wish to make all previous archived messages
inaccessible to the new subscribers.  Is there a way to archive the archives
to a different location where they are not available to all members of the
list, but are still not hard to get to for old members or at least to the
sysadmin?

Anne



From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Mon Nov 15 19:52:54 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2004 18:52:54 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
Message-ID: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>

I am creating a website 'front end' for my new list which is run by 
using Mailman and am running into logging in difficulties which would 
be best worked around using my own logging-in system. However, I need 
access to the members' email addresses/passwords database and 
understand it is stored inside the mailman installation. Unfortunately 
I do NOT have access to the actual mailman program as it is hosted as a 
server-wide installation shared by all domains on the server, of which 
I am but one.

Does anyone have any experience of how to access this database and 
somehow keep it sync'd with one of mine.

Please note, I use an Apple Mac, and when I look at the scripts and 
coding in the Mailman FAQs, I am left cold, as I wouldn't know where to 
begin! I have no knowledge of these things and would need a novice's 
guide to what I am wanting to achieve.

Thanks in advance
Pete Bell, UK



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 16 01:28:56 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:28:56 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large Mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>
References: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>
Message-ID: <p06200745bdbefa0c6ab9@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:43 PM -0500 2004-11-15, Michael Clark wrote:

>  I am trying to create a Mailman installation with 450 announcement-only
>  mailing lists, and with around 50 umbrella lists. Each announcement list
>  will have between 10 and 500 members. Each umbrella list is also
>  announcement only made up of various combinations of the smaller
>  announcement lists. Does anyone have any advice or experience in a setup
>  like this?

	Advice?  What kind of advice are you looking for?

	Have you read the Mailman FAQ Wizard entry at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp>? 
Have you searched the rest of the Mailman FAQ Wizard for the word 
"performance"?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 16 01:31:50 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:31:50 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List statistics
In-Reply-To: <DE9FE42D-3736-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <DE9FE42D-3736-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200746bdbefa8f8958@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:47 PM +0000 2004-11-15, PeteBell wrote:

>  Namely, the ability to publish a regularly updating set of statistics on
>  my website with figures for:
>     Number of members currently subscribed
>     Average number of emails per day
>     Number of emails today
>  (etc)

	If you have access to the server, you can run various log 
processing scripts which can create this kind of information.  If you 
use postfix as your MTA, check out a tool called "pflogsumm". 
Another good tool to look at is "lire" from logreport.org.

>  Please note that I do NOT have access to the actual mailman program as
>  it is hosted as a server-wide installation shared by all domains on the
>  server, of which I am but one.

	That's going to be much more difficult.  Mailman doesn't do any 
log processing of this sort, and it doesn't have any statistics 
gathering/reporting features I am aware of.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 16 01:34:27 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 01:34:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06200747bdbefb13a844@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:52 PM +0000 2004-11-15, PeteBell wrote:

>  Please note, I use an Apple Mac, and when I look at the scripts and coding
>  in the Mailman FAQs, I am left cold, as I wouldn't know where to begin! I
>  have no knowledge of these things and would need a novice's guide to what
>  I am wanting to achieve.

	Using MacOS X Server?  If so, then you're going to need to go to 
Apple for your support questions.  The version of Mailman that they 
provide out-of-the-box has been hacked, and they've added all sorts 
of customized administration overhead as well.

	If you can convince your server administrator to install Mailman 
from our source tarballs and not use the pre-built version supplied 
with the OS, we'd be in a better position to help, but will still be 
limited in our ability to assist with issues specific to MacOS X.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Tue Nov 16 02:07:33 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:07:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to change URL_HOST without change EMAIL_HOST
	on existing mailinglist?
In-Reply-To: <20041115132203.GA15226@sythos.net>
References: <20041115132203.GA15226@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <20041116010732.GB13806@server.onjapan.net>

On Mon, Nov 15, 2004 at 02:22:03PM +0100, Sythos wrote:
> I found in mm_cfg.py the way to change this in new crate list, but in
> old list generated when URL_HOST=EMAIL_HOST how can I change URL_HOST to
> www.sythos.net in web (or console) interface?

Use the bin/fix_url.py tool.  (Run it without arguments and it
will show you how to use it with bin/withlist to fix an
existing list.)

> Second question, in wich way can I set https instead http?

Set
  DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'
in your mm_cfg.py.  (You may also want to set
PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL, see the information in Defaults.py, and set
the new value in your mm_cfg.py.)

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Tue Nov 16 02:43:15 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:43:15 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20041116014315.GC13806@server.onjapan.net>

On Mon, Nov 15, 2004 at 06:52:54PM +0000, PeteBell wrote:
> I am creating a website 'front end' for my new list which is run by 
> using Mailman and am running into logging in difficulties which would 
> be best worked around using my own logging-in system. However, I need 
> access to the members' email addresses/passwords database and 
> understand it is stored inside the mailman installation. Unfortunately 
> I do NOT have access to the actual mailman program as it is hosted as a 
> server-wide installation shared by all domains on the server, of which 
> I am but one.

Not having access to the mailman installation makes this *much*
more difficult.  One technique that is possible, but tricky to
get right, is to have your web front end manipulate the real
Mailman web interface.  Python's ClientCookie module or PHP's
CURL module provide tools for doing this, allowing your web
front end enter form data and "read" and manipulate result
pages before display to the end user.  It does take *careful*
scripting because you will want to handle the possible error
conditions that the Mailman web interface may present you.
(You probably will also want to eliminate direct access to the
underlying Mailman pages by end users in this scenario.)

> Does anyone have any experience of how to access this database and 
> somehow keep it sync'd with one of mine.

There are easier techniques if you have access to the Mailman
server.


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Tue Nov 16 07:59:38 2004
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:59:38 +0100
Subject: SV: [Mailman-Users] Bug?
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06ABB5@sea0620smail.abf.local>

> >  IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
> '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'
> 
> 	It says "permission denied".
> 
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

As I see it, this info tells me that there was something wrong and Mailman (or wathever program)couldn't write to ther error log. It does not tell me what the problem was.

Ralph Utbult

----------------------------------------
Min e-post skyddas av SPAMfighter
607 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
H?mta gratis p? www.spamfighter.com idag!


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Tue Nov 16 08:27:27 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 07:27:27 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
Message-ID: <F7AEAA82-37A0-11D9-A70F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>

Brad
No, I'm not talking about the server. The mailman I am using resides on 
the UNIX server at which I am hosted. I only mentioned Apple Mac 
because that's what computer I use and I wanted to give all info 
possible.

As you say that you can help if it's YOUR installation and tarballs 
(whatever they are), well it IS yours, so I am putting the question 
back to you, please (quoted below).

Thanks in advance
Pete Bell, UK


On 16 Nov 2004, at 00:34, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 6:52 PM +0000 2004-11-15, PeteBell wrote:
>
>>  Please note, I use an Apple Mac, and when I look at the scripts and 
>> coding
>>  in the Mailman FAQs, I am left cold, as I wouldn't know where to 
>> begin! I
>>  have no knowledge of these things and would need a novice's guide to 
>> what
>>  I am wanting to achieve.
>
> 	Using MacOS X Server?  If so, then you're going to need to go to 
> Apple for your support questions.  The version of Mailman that they 
> provide out-of-the-box has been hacked, and they've added all sorts of 
> customized administration overhead as well.
>
> 	If you can convince your server administrator to install Mailman from 
> our source tarballs and not use the pre-built version supplied with 
> the OS, we'd be in a better position to help, but will still be 
> limited in our ability to assist with issues specific to MacOS X.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.
>



From sythos at sythos.net  Tue Nov 16 09:16:24 2004
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:16:24 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more power to moderator
Message-ID: <20041116081624.GB371@sythos.net>

I need moderator can suspend a user (bann from list) but with only
moderator password they can control pending ticket and no function in
control panel. There is a way to get moderator more power?




-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments
    


From mailman-user at darksleep.com  Tue Nov 16 10:46:48 2004
From: mailman-user at darksleep.com (Steven J. Owens)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 04:46:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
Message-ID: <20041116094648.GA5503@localhost>

Hi,

Mailman seems to randomly stop sending messages.  

I'm running:

     debian woody
     postfix 2.1.3-1
     mailman 2.1.5
     python 2.3.4-1

My only real suspect is that either mailmanctl isn't being started, or
that bad lock files are being built up in the lock directory.

Restarting mailman with "/etc/init.d/mailman restart" or
"/var/lib/mailman/bin/mailmanctl restart" seems to get things working
again, but I'm kind of bothered by this, since I have no idea why it
stopped, and I tend to not notice it's stopped until a day or two go
by (most of my lists are intermittent traffic, 30-40 users). 

Should I put in a cron job to restart mailman every hour or so?
What else can I do?


Background:

This problem started sometime in the past year mailman.  Before that,
for a couple years, mailman worked reliably and we were quite happy
with it.

It's entirely possible that the problem may have happened after an
upgrade.  It happens intermittently, so it's hard to tell.

This last time around, I spent several hours digging through list
archives and reading FAQs, trying to figure out what's going on.
I followed FAQ 3.14, Troubleshooting: no mail going out to list
members:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

There are various things that are different about a debian apt mailman
installation:

- the "mailman" account is named "lists"
- there is no /home/lists or /home/mailman
- mailman's files are located in:
  /var/lib/mailman
  /usr/lib/mailman
  /usr/share/mailman

My first thought was to check the log files, which on debian are in
/var/log/mailman (I think this is soft-linked from /var/lib/mailman).
However, the log files showed nothing.  The last successful message
was on Nov 11, the error log file's last line was from Nov 1.

I have plenty of file space, checked with "df -h", got 1.5 GB
available.

I have plenty of inodes, checked with "df -i", got 1.5M IFree.


0) check_perms showed all sorts of weird issues, but that may be
related to the general weirdness of the debian apt installation of
mailman.  

     list at darksleep:/etc$ /var/lib/mailman/bin/check_perms
     /var/lib/mailman/mail bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/Mailman bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/cron bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/scripts bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/logs bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/templates bad group (has: root, expected list)
     /var/lib/mailman/cgi-bin bad group (has: root, expected list)
     Problems found: 8
     Re-run as list (or root) with -f flag to fix

However, su-ing to root and re-running check_perms with -f did not fix
the problems (though it reported that it was).

So I skipped this step and checked the others.

1) Cron:

darksleep:/var/lib/mailman# ps -aux |grep cron |grep -v grep
root      8550  0.0  0.0  1756  500 ?        S    Sep20   0:04 /usr/sbin/cron

Loks like Cron's running.

2) Aliases

The aliases are all there in /etc/aliases, somebody on #postfix told
me I should also run:

postalias /etc/aliases

Which I did, but still no change.

3) Smrsh, skipped this step, since I'm not using redhat or sendmail.

4) Interface, again, I'm not running sendmail, and in any event I'm
pretty sure that the MTA's okay, since it gets used a fair bit every
day and has shown no sign of problems.

5) qrunner

su-ing to "lists" and running "crontab -l" showed no jobs at all,
but I found the mailman files in:
     /etc/cron.d/mailman

In any event, both /var/lib/mailman/bin/version and "dpkg -l mailman"
says I'm running 2.1.5 (dpkg says 2.1.5.3), and this section of the
FAQ says:

   If you are running Mailman 2.1.x then the qrunners are daemons that
   are started by $prefix/bin/mailmanctl, which itself may be being 
   run via a 'mailman' startup script. This is described in the 
   INSTALL document for the version of MM you are running.

I can't find any INSTALL document with:
     dpkg -L mailman | fgrep INSTALL

(Warning, don't do "dpkg -L mailman<enter>", there are over 3000 files
in the mailman package :-).

I can't see a mailmanctl daemon with:
     ps -aux| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep

I'm not sure what's going on.  At first I was excited, because I
figured the absence of a mailmanctl process meant that was the
problem.  When I did "mailmanctl start", messages waiting in the 
queue were delivered, and they appear to still be getting through
now, a couple hours later.

However, on a closer re-reading, of the above paragraph, it doesn't
really say that there's supposed to be a mailmanctl process running.
It doens't say much of anything, really.

There's nothing about mailmanctl in /etc/cron.d/mailman.
There's nothing about mailmanctl in /var/log/mailman/*.

6) Locks

There are definitely lock files in /var/lib/mailman/locks, and they
definitely have process IDs that don't show up in "ps -aux".  But I'm
not sure that's the _problem_, since things start and messages go
through, even with the lock files there.

Nevertheless, I removed the old lock files, since they all date from
May, September, etc.

7) Logs

The only thing I can find in the logs that looks suspicious is:

qrunner:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
Nov 11 18:30:33 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

locks:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606) 2004-November-thread.lock lifetime has expired, breaking
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in?
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     main()
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/var/lib/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, inmain
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     qrunner.run()
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 70, in run
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     filecnt = self._oneloop()
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/ArchRunner.py", line 73, in _dispose
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     mlist.ArchiveMail(msg)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/Archiver.py", line 215, in ArchiveMail
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     h.processUnixMailbox(f)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 569, in processUnixMailbox
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     self.add_article(a)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 615, in add_article
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     article.parentID = parentID = self.get_parent_info(arch, article)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/pipermail.py", line 649, in get_parent_info
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     if parentID and not self.database.hasArticle(archive, parentID):
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 273, in hasArticle
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     self.__openIndices(archive)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 251, in __openIndices
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     t = DumbBTree(os.path.join(arcdir, archive + '-' + i))
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 61, in __init__
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     self.lock()
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Archiver/HyperDatabase.py", line 77, in lock
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     self.lockfile.lock()
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     important=True)
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in __writelog
Nov 10 16:37:14 2004 (1606)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710) beehiverefugees.lock lifetime has expired, breaking 
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 178, in ?
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     main()
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/usr/lib/mailman/cron/checkdbs", line 84, in main
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     mlist = MailList.MailList(name)
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 126, in __init__
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     self.Lock()
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 159, in Lock
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     self.__lock.lock(timeout)
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 306, in lock
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     important=True)
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)   File "/var/lib/mailman/Mailman/LockFile.py", line 416, in __writelog
Nov 12 08:00:02 2004 (20710)     traceback.print_stack(file=logf)
----------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
Steven J. Owens
puff at darksleep.com

"I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong,
 declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and
 this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read.
 Take it all with a grain of salt." - http://darksleep.com/notablog



From iane at sussex.ac.uk  Tue Nov 16 11:15:08 2004
From: iane at sussex.ac.uk (Ian Eiloart)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 10:15:08 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Large Mailman installation?
In-Reply-To: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>
References: <p06110411bdbea7bb8ae0@[10.0.1.102]>
Message-ID: <62EB05B2D4EB4E6B84332C9D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>

--On Monday, November 15, 2004 13:43:27 GMT -0500 Michael Clark 
<mclark at cdtmail.org> wrote:

> I am trying to create a Mailman installation with 450 announcement-only
> mailing lists, and with around 50 umbrella lists. Each announcement list
> will have between 10 and 500 members. Each umbrella list is also
> announcement only made up of various combinations of the smaller
> announcement lists. Does anyone have any advice or experience in a setup
> like this? Thanks, Michael

For that number of lists, its worth scripting your efforts. Check out the 
contents of $MAILMAN/bin.

For the umbrella lists, make sure you enter the umbrella list address as a 
permitted poster for each of its members.

Make sure that your MTA won't accept email addressed to the lists. Don't 
use mailman "reject" facilities, because that will cause spam messages to 
bounce back to the forged sender address. Mailman "rejects" cause MTA 
bounces, so it is better to reject at the MTA level.

-- 
Ian Eiloart
Servers Team
Sussex University ITS



From snake.lists at snakepit.net  Tue Nov 16 18:36:58 2004
From: snake.lists at snakepit.net (Russ Michaels (Snake))
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:36:58 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow list
In-Reply-To: <62EB05B2D4EB4E6B84332C9D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <20041116173645.1B6A31E4007@bag.python.org>

I thought this list was being very slow, but I just noticed that when you
hit reply, it replies to the poster, and not to the list, so all my posts
have been going to the wrong place.
Is this intentional, as every other list I have ever been on REPLIES go to
the list not to the poster. Thus I do not even think to check the TO
address.

russ




From snake.lists at snakepit.net  Tue Nov 16 19:17:19 2004
From: snake.lists at snakepit.net (Russ Michaels (Snake))
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 18:17:19 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
In-Reply-To: <20041116173645.1B6A31E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <20041116181702.7F0501E4006@bag.python.org>

 
Having some probs with this.

Posts made to the list will appear on the news server, but not vice versa.

Any idea why ?

Russ




From fehwalker at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 20:09:24 2004
From: fehwalker at gmail.com (Bryan Fullerton)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:09:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing bounce_score_threshold punts subscribers?
Message-ID: <35de0c3004111611097315a8f7@mail.gmail.com>

I'm using Mailman 2.1.5.

I ran into a situation today where a list owner changed the
bounce_score_threshold from 7 to 3, and 55 subscribers were disabled
when cron/disabled ran. Most of these users haven't seen a bounce in
at least weeks, in some cases years, but they all did have bounce
scores over 3 and under 7.

I'm unsure exactly why this happened, I thought there were things in
place to handle this (removing stale bounce info, bounce probe
emails). From my mail logs it looks like Mailman sent an email to the
subscriber and the list owner at the same time. I don't know what was
in the mail to the subscriber, but the list owner got this:

=====
Subject: 	Bounce action notification
Date: 	Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:00:18 -0500
From: 	mailman at lists.samurai.com
To: 	trawlers-and-trawlering-owner at lists.samurai.com

This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:

    List:       Trawlers-and-trawlering
    Member:     [elided]
    Action:     Subscription disabled.
    Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
    

The triggering bounce notice is attached below.

Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at
mailman at lists.samurai.com.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

[disabled by periodic sweep and cull, no message available]
=====

In the Mailman bounce log for that same address I see:

Nov 16 09:00:18 2004 (89086) trawlers-and-trawlering: [elided]
disabling due to probe bounce received

The last info I have for that address in the bounce logs before this is:

Oct 30 00:07:48 2004 (748) [elided]: trawlers-and-trawlering current
bounce score: 4.0

>From what I can see all of the 55 subscribers disabled today are
digest subscribers, but their digest is being successfully delivered
every day.

So... 

Why wasn't their bounce score determined to be stale and discarded?
bounce_info_stale_after is set to 3 (was set to 7 until last night).

Why was it logged that they were disabled due to a probe bounce when
that wasn't the case? My mail server is pretty quick, but I can't see
it sending and receiving back a probe message in the same second (not
to mention there's no bounce in the mail logs).

If this is a legitimate bug, and not just my misunderstanding of how
things work, let me know and I'll open a bug on SourceForge.

Thanks,
Bryan


From etierra at gmail.com  Tue Nov 16 21:53:01 2004
From: etierra at gmail.com (Tierra)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:53:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow list
In-Reply-To: <20041116173645.1B6A31E4007@bag.python.org>
References: <62EB05B2D4EB4E6B84332C9D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<20041116173645.1B6A31E4007@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <c7ef32a70411161253fbd5238@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:36:58 -0000, Russ Michaels (Snake)
<snake.lists at snakepit.net> wrote:
> I thought this list was being very slow, but I just noticed that when you
> hit reply, it replies to the poster, and not to the list, so all my posts
> have been going to the wrong place.
> Is this intentional, as every other list I have ever been on REPLIES go to
> the list not to the poster. Thus I do not even think to check the TO
> address.

Yes, it's intentional. Look up header munging:
http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

Use Reply-To-All on any mailing lists.

Bryan


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 16 21:55:11 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 12:55:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] more power to moderator
In-Reply-To: <20041116081624.GB371@sythos.net>
Message-ID: <PC172220041116125511042163226210@msapiro>

Sythos wrote:

>I need moderator can suspend a user (bann from list) but with only
>moderator password they can control pending ticket and no function in
>control panel. There is a way to get moderator more power?

Not without giving her/him the list admin (owner) password.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 16 22:04:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:04:03 -0800
Subject: SV: [Mailman-Users] Bug?
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A06ABB5@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411161304030437318127b8@msapiro>

Ralph Utbult wrote:

>> >  IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
>> '/var/lib/mailman/logs/error'
>> 
>> 	It says "permission denied".
>> 
>> --
>> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
>As I see it, this info tells me that there was something wrong and Mailman (or wathever program)couldn't write to ther error log. It does not tell me what the problem was.
>

If the file /var/lib/mailman/logs/error exists, then it needs group
write permission for the group that mailman executes under. If the
file doesn't exist, then the /var/lib/mailman/logs directory needs the
same.

The command line program

  bin/check_perms

can help you determine what permissions are not sufficient. When run as
root with the -f option, it can fix problems. Run it whith --help for
more information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 16 22:54:17 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 13:54:17 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
In-Reply-To: <20041116094648.GA5503@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411161354170140d32a2ebd@msapiro>

Steven J. Owens wrote:
>
>In any event, both /var/lib/mailman/bin/version and "dpkg -l mailman"
>says I'm running 2.1.5 (dpkg says 2.1.5.3), and this section of the
>FAQ says:
>
>   If you are running Mailman 2.1.x then the qrunners are daemons that
>   are started by $prefix/bin/mailmanctl, which itself may be being 
>   run via a 'mailman' startup script. This is described in the 
>   INSTALL document for the version of MM you are running.
>
>I can't find any INSTALL document with:
>     dpkg -L mailman | fgrep INSTALL
>
>(Warning, don't do "dpkg -L mailman<enter>", there are over 3000 files
>in the mailman package :-).

It's part of the source distribution. Apparently, Debian doesn't
include it in their package.

>I can't see a mailmanctl daemon with:
>     ps -aux| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep

Note that on Red Hat 7.3, with an 80 column screen, I have to do 
     ps -auxw| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
in order to see anything.

>I'm not sure what's going on.  At first I was excited, because I
>figured the absence of a mailmanctl process meant that was the
>problem.  When I did "mailmanctl start", messages waiting in the 
>queue were delivered, and they appear to still be getting through
>now, a couple hours later.
>
>However, on a closer re-reading, of the above paragraph, it doesn't
>really say that there's supposed to be a mailmanctl process running.
>It doens't say much of anything, really.

There should be a "mailmanctl -s -q start" running that was started by
/etc/init.d/mailman. It in turn should have started all the qrunner
processes which should also be running (a total of eight qrunners
assuming no slicing). If a qrunner stops, mailmanctl should notice and
restart it, but if mailmanctl stops too then so does everything except
receipt and queueing of messages.

<snip>
>
>The only thing I can find in the logs that looks suspicious is:
>
>qrunner:
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
>Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
>Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
>Nov 11 18:30:33 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
>----------------------------------------------------------------------

We don't know why the incoming and outgoing runners are  receiving
SIGTERM, but this will cause the problem because they will quit and
the master won't restart them. See

   bin/mailmanctl --help

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 16 23:01:13 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 14:01:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
In-Reply-To: <20041116181702.7F0501E4006@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411161401130171a026eed8@msapiro>

Russ Michaels (Snake) wrote:
>
>Posts made to the list will appear on the news server, but not vice versa.
>
>Any idea why ?

Is gate_news being run by cron?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From snake.lists at snakepit.net  Tue Nov 16 23:19:34 2004
From: snake.lists at snakepit.net (Russ Michaels (Snake))
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 22:19:34 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411161401130171a026eed8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041116221924.109311E4006@bag.python.org>

Probably not, I'll tell the sysadmin, cheers... 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: 16 November 2004 22:01
> To: Russ Michaels (Snake); mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
> 
> Russ Michaels (Snake) wrote:
> >
> >Posts made to the list will appear on the news server, but 
> not vice versa.
> >
> >Any idea why ?
> 
> Is gate_news being run by cron?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 16 09:41:21 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 09:41:21 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <F7AEAA82-37A0-11D9-A70F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <F7AEAA82-37A0-11D9-A70F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p0620074bbdbf6bee1bc6@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:27 AM +0000 2004-11-16, PeteBell wrote:

>  No, I'm not talking about the server. The mailman I am using resides on
>  the UNIX server at which I am hosted. I only mentioned Apple Mac because
>  that's what computer I use and I wanted to give all info possible.

	Ahh.  Okay.  That wasn't clear to me from the previous post.

>  As you say that you can help if it's YOUR installation and tarballs
>  (whatever they are), well it IS yours, so I am putting the question back
>  to you, please (quoted below).

	From your original post:

>>  I am creating a website 'front end' for my new list which is run by
>>  using Mailman and am running into logging in difficulties which would
>>  be best worked around using my own logging-in system. However, I need
>>  access to the members' email addresses/passwords database and understand
>>  it is stored inside the mailman installation. Unfortunately I do NOT
>>  have access to the actual mailman program as it is hosted as a
>>  server-wide installation shared by all domains on the server, of which
>>  I am but one.

	I believe that information is stored within Python "pickles". 
Without direct access to the server, and direct read access to those 
data structures, I don't know how you can solve this problem.

>>  Please note, I use an Apple Mac, and when I look at the scripts and
>>  coding in the Mailman FAQs, I am left cold, as I wouldn't know where
>>  to begin! I have no knowledge of these things and would need a
>>  novice's guide to what I am wanting to achieve.

	The problem is that for this sort of thing, you need to obtain 
experience in programming in Python, and you need to spend some time 
learning the internal operations of Mailman.  You don't get that kind 
of experience overnight.

	You may not have any choice but to have your server 
administrators do the work for you that you need done, and you may 
need to pay them in order to get this kind of consulting assistance. 
Alternatively, if they could give you the access you need, you might 
be able to obtain consulting assistance from someone else on the 
list, who could help you do what you want.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 17 00:45:34 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 00:45:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Slow list
In-Reply-To: <c7ef32a70411161253fbd5238@mail.gmail.com>
References: <62EB05B2D4EB4E6B84332C9D@lewes.staff.uscs.susx.ac.uk>
	<20041116173645.1B6A31E4007@bag.python.org>
	<c7ef32a70411161253fbd5238@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06200753bdc0414f1ed2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:53 PM -0700 2004-11-16, Tierra wrote:

>  Yes, it's intentional. Look up header munging:
>  http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html

	See also 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.048.htp>

>  Use Reply-To-All on any mailing lists.

	That may not work as desired with all MUAs.  If that's the case 
for the original poster, then he needs to fix this problem by getting 
an MUA that properly implements a "list reply" function, as well as 
the other two typical options.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 02:48:15 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 17:48:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Disallowing access to previous archives
In-Reply-To: <HGEKLFPEOHKAOBIMHGHPAEOHIGAA.anne@isoc.org>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411161748150093a026ee8c@msapiro>

Anne Shroeder - Internet Society wrote:

>I need to open up a particular list to a larger group of people; however,
>the leaders of the list wish to make all previous archived messages
>inaccessible to the new subscribers.  Is there a way to archive the archives
>to a different location where they are not available to all members of the
>list, but are still not hard to get to for old members or at least to the
>sysadmin?

FAQ article 3.3 has useful info on this.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Basically what you want to do is move the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox somewhere else and
replace it with an empty file with the same name and permissions (or
copy it elsewhere and then empty it), and then run

 bin/arch --wipe listname

This will remove everything from the listname archive and start it over
and you will still have the old messages in the old listname.mbox file.

If you want to have an accessable pipermail archive with the old
messages, you could create a list, say old-list, and move the old
.mbox file to archives/old-list.mbox/old-list.mbox and then build an
archive with

 bin/arch --wipe old-list

Of course, that archive would need to be private and people who need
access to it would need to be subscribed to old-list and old-list set
up fully moderated so people couldn't post to it, ...

That's pretty messy, but there's not much choice if you want to give
people access to the old archive via Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From angusf at mac.com  Wed Nov 17 03:22:40 2004
From: angusf at mac.com (Angus Fox)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 02:22:40 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List has been running for a year and suddenly
	last night it stopped.
In-Reply-To: <p06200733bdbe1a4ef9c5@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <EFB81AB0-368C-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115001725.M95932@enabled.com>
	<8C12D92C-36D4-11D9-A2C3-0050E4C05D73@mac.com>
	<20041115071537.M10779@enabled.com> <p06200733bdbe1a4ef9c5@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <2569253.1100658160810.JavaMail.angusf@mac.com>

On Monday, November 15, 2004, at 08:52AM, Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

>At 11:24 PM -0800 2004-11-14, Noah wrote:
>
>>  possibly you have soft-updates in your /etc/fstab on your /var partition.
>>  therefore your filesystem is claiming space for unwriten log files, etc.  so
>>  you will not see them physically on the drive.
>
>	You could have problems with log files that have been deleted but 
>which are held open by some process (and therefore the disk space has 
>not yet been recovered), regardless of what type of filesystem is 
>being used.
>
>	Moreover, the filesystem could have run out of inodes but have 
>plenty of disk space available -- a "df -i" should show whether or 
>not that was the case, looking in the "ifree" and "%iused" columns.
>
>
>	Excepting these two nits, the advice is good.
FIXED!

My friend from Red Hat had a look and fixed this for me (thank you Mark). It turned out to be some kind of shunt error he spotted in mailman 2.12 logs. He upgraded through the versions as per instructions in the various readmes. Python, perl versions etc.. all remain the same as before. 

specific upgrade options were: 
./configure --with-mail-gid=mail --with-cgi-gid=httpd 
make install 

During upgrade it croaked on updating the qfiles and I didn't save the 
error. They are still there in 

/usr/local/mailman/qfiles/shunt 

and I believe it to be a problem with file format changes and dir 
structure changes between releases. 

Now all is well and its running perfectly again on mailman 2.15.

Thanks for your pointers, all were checked out but in the end moving through the upgrades to 2.15 seems to have solved the problem.

Angus



From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Wed Nov 17 04:34:22 2004
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 16:34:22 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman features
Message-ID: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EBE99827@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

While looking to replace Communigate Pro with Mailman a user asked if these are possible,

1) If a user is a user on multiple lists, can the user receive 1 email with all the messages in, as opposed to (say) 4....I assume this means in digest mode....can mailman do this?

2) For send out lists, how would we set a list up such that only the owner(s) can subscribe a user? ie a user cannot subscribe via the web or email, it is an outgoing list only. As far as I can see it would need to be hidden and all msgs would go to a moderator, global bit?

3) Automation of lists to /etc/aliases for sendmail on Linux (Sendmail), when generating a new list but this does not happen.

4) Hooking into a mysql (or similar) database either pulling data or taking it if pushed to mailman. ie mailman becomes part of a "integrated solution". I would think this is possible, especially as Mailman is Python based but I am not a programmer, has anybody done something like this?

5) Scaling, 100,000 users? very peaky loads expected.

6) Has anybody sized a server to handle 100,000 list member mail shots? I have a grunty Dell that I can add another 2 CPUs to plus more Ram so its a question of do I need them....

PS no I am not a spammer.....just have lots of students.......

;]

regards

Steven
aka Thing


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 05:38:04 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 20:38:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman features
In-Reply-To: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EBE99827@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411162038040343a5a9487b@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:

>While looking to replace Communigate Pro with Mailman a user asked if these are possible,
>
>1) If a user is a user on multiple lists, can the user receive 1 email with all the messages in, as opposed to (say) 4....I assume this means in digest mode....can mailman do this?

No.

>2) For send out lists, how would we set a list up such that only the owner(s) can subscribe a user? ie a user cannot subscribe via the web or email, it is an outgoing list only. As far as I can see it would need to be hidden and all msgs would go to a moderator, global bit?

Yes. Can set list so all user initiated subscribes require owner
approval. See FAQ article 3.11 regarding outgoing only list.

>3) Automation of lists to /etc/aliases for sendmail on Linux (Sendmail), when generating a new list but this does not happen.

See FAQ 4.49.

>4) Hooking into a mysql (or similar) database either pulling data or taking it if pushed to mailman. ie mailman becomes part of a "integrated solution". I would think this is possible, especially as Mailman is Python based but I am not a programmer, has anybody done something like this?

See http://www.google.com/search?q=mailman+memberadaptor+mysql

>5) Scaling, 100,000 users? very peaky loads expected.
>
>6) Has anybody sized a server to handle 100,000 list member mail shots? I have a grunty Dell that I can add another 2 CPUs to plus more Ram so its a question of do I need them....

For both 5 and 6 see FAQ 1.15. Also search the FAQ wizard for
performance.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark at altenberg.com  Wed Nov 17 08:37:48 2004
From: mark at altenberg.com (Mark Altenberg)
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 2004 23:37:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get mailman on Panther Server working
	correctly
Message-ID: <p06110404bdc0afeeca40@[192.168.1.3]>

Hi,
I'm having some kind of problem, perhaps with DNS or something, and my list serve cannot accept mail from outside it's domain. I'm using Panther Server, with it's built in SMTP server and stock MailMan. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Mark
mark at altenberg.com


From ralph.utbult at abf.se  Wed Nov 17 11:33:05 2004
From: ralph.utbult at abf.se (Ralph Utbult)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:33:05 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with diacritical characters
Message-ID: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A0D9FA5@sea0620smail.abf.local>

Im trying to add an info-text in the footer. Since I live in Sweden, I use our diacritical (or umlaut) characters (??????). Python signals that I use non-ASCII characters "\xf6" (yes, I know tihs...). So, do I use HTML-like umlaut-codes or do I "internationalize" Python?

Regards

Ralph Utbult
Systemansvarig
ABF G?teborg

Bes?ksadress: S?dra All?gatan 1, 4:e v?n, G?teborg
Postadress: Olof Palmes Plats, 413 04  G?teborg

Telefon: 031-7743176
Mobil:   0706-743176
Fax:     031-7743105
E-post:  ralph.utbult at abf.se
ICQ:     108998663

----------------------------------------
Min e-post skyddas av SPAMfighter
630 spam har blivit blockerade hittills.
H?mta gratis p? www.spamfighter.com idag!


From sven.osterwalder at infoklick.ch  Wed Nov 17 12:16:42 2004
From: sven.osterwalder at infoklick.ch (Sven Osterwalder)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 12:16:42 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't arrive
Message-ID: <000201c4cc96$eae98630$1400000a@mega.ch>

Hello,
I've setup postfix 2.1.3 and mailman 2.1.4.
To connect both I use a script found on the web:
 
 <http://www.gurulabs.com/files/postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py>
postfix-to-mailman-2.1.py
 
The script seems to work, because when I mailed to the list without the
script involved
(sendmail testlist at maillist.mydomain.ch
<mailto:testlist at maillist.domain.ch> ) I got a timeout. Now I get:
 
Nov 17 11:40:17 webserver postfix/pickup[12293]: E8FE16BD38: uid=0
from=<root> 
Nov 17 11:40:17 webserver postfix/cleanup[12675]: E8FE16BD38:
message-id=<20041117104017.E8FE16BD38 at webserver.mydomain.ch> 
Nov 17 11:40:17 webserver postfix/qmgr[12294]: E8FE16BD38:
from=<root at webserver.mydomain.ch>, size=298, nrcpt=1 (queue active) 
Nov 17 11:40:18 webserver postfix/pipe[12696]: E8FE16BD38:
to=<testlist at mail.mydomain.ch>, relay=mailman, delay=1, status=sent
(mail.mydomain.ch) 
Nov 17 11:40:18 webserver postfix/qmgr[12294]: E8FE16BD38: removed
 
So I assume, the mail was sent. But mailman does nothing.. so no mail
goes out to the subscribers of testlist.
When I send any mail i.e. sendmail test at test.ch it works without
problems and the user receives the mail.
Can anyone help me on this?
 
Thanks and with kindly regards
 
Sven Osterwalder


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Wed Nov 17 16:02:43 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 15:02:43 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <6D820A28-38A6-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
	<20041116014315.GC13806@server.onjapan.net>
	<080D9088-3806-11D9-995D-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
	<20041117135904.GA30093@server.onjapan.net>
	<6D820A28-38A6-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <BBE547A4-38A9-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>

On 17 Nov 2004, at 14:39, PeteBell wrote:

Further to my problems with this (kindly addressed by Brad, Mark & Jim, 
the other thing which occurs to me is that at the moment a member of a 
list is asked to log in when either changing his/her option settings, 
seeing the members list (if set up to be visible to members only), or 
to see the archive (if members only).

If I could find a way that a member could log in, thereby downloading 
the session-long cookie, but NOT being taken to either of the above 
mailman-generated pages, I still wouldn't need to get involved with 
having my own mailman installation.

Do you know if this would be possible to do?

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK



From millerj at truman.edu  Wed Nov 17 16:18:47 2004
From: millerj at truman.edu (Jason Miller)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 09:18:47 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on OS X 10.3.5 with apache, problems
Message-ID: <FA266E90-38AB-11D9-8346-000A95A7D4D6@truman.edu>

Dear listers,

I've been trying to get Mailman up and running on my 10.3.5 boxes, but 
I've had very little luck. I've followed the instructions from the 
README.MACOSX and README.POSTFIX distibuted with the tarball, and I've 
also used the slightly different instructions at 
http://www.afp548.com/Articles/Jaguar/mailman21-upgrade.html. From what 
I can tell without sending a test message through mailman, all the CLI 
stuff seems to work just fine, but I'm unable to get a web interface 
work.

Can anyone point me to a HOWTO for getting Mailman to work with OS X 
10.3.5? I've googled and googled and googled, read as much on-line 
information as I can find, and I have little to show for it.

One bit of info about my problem that I can offer is this:  when I try 
to go to http://localhost/mailman, I get a "Not Found" error even 
though I have

Alias mailman/ "/Applications/mailman/"

in my httpd.conf file.  (I've also had the same alias for /mailman/ and 
I have the exact same problem.)  In my access_log file I get

[Wed Nov 17 09:15:31 2004] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not 
exist: /Library/WebServer/Documents/mailman

when I look for http://localhost/mailman.

Thanks in advance for whatever guidance list members can offer.

================================================================
Jason E. Miller, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics
Truman State University
Kirksville, MO
http://pyrite.truman.edu/millerj/
660.785.7430



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 16:43:32 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:43:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on OS X 10.3.5 with apache, problems
In-Reply-To: <FA266E90-38AB-11D9-8346-000A95A7D4D6@truman.edu>
Message-ID: <PC172220041117074332070316b5179f@msapiro>

Jason Miller wrote:
>
>Can anyone point me to a HOWTO for getting Mailman to work with OS X 
>10.3.5? I've googled and googled and googled, read as much on-line 
>information as I can find, and I have little to show for it.

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp

It references the www.afp548.com article you mentioned, but also other
things that might be helpful.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 16:46:34 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:46:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mails don't arrive
In-Reply-To: <000201c4cc96$eae98630$1400000a@mega.ch>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111707463405460848ca04@msapiro>

Sven Osterwalder wrote:
> 
>So I assume, the mail was sent. But mailman does nothing.. so no mail
>goes out to the subscribers of testlist.
>When I send any mail i.e. sendmail test at test.ch it works without
>problems and the user receives the mail.
>Can anyone help me on this?

See FAQ article 3.14.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 16:55:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 07:55:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems with diacritical characters
In-Reply-To: <A3EEB985B9693B4BB29A3B2D8C39AD0A0D9FA5@sea0620smail.abf.local>
Message-ID: <PC17222004111707550209680848cb8a@msapiro>

Ralph Utbult wrote:

>Im trying to add an info-text in the footer. Since I live in Sweden, I use our diacritical (or umlaut) characters (??????). Python signals that I use non-ASCII characters "\xf6" (yes, I know tihs...). So, do I use HTML-like umlaut-codes or do I "internationalize" Python?
>

I believe if you choose Swedish as the preferred language for the list,
you will be able to add text with the characters you want.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 17 17:06:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 08:06:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get mailman on Panther Server
	workingcorrectly
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bdc0afeeca40@[192.168.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411170806140953e6e5c067@msapiro>

Mark Altenberg wrote:

>I'm having some kind of problem, perhaps with DNS or something, and my list serve cannot accept mail from outside it's domain. I'm using Panther Server, with it's built in SMTP server and stock MailMan. Any ideas?
>

Apple's Panther Server Mailman is non-standard and foreign to most
people on this list. You may do better seeking help from Apple
resources.

That said, can you connect from outside to port 25 in your domain with
a telnet client? If not, there may be a firewall or other device
blocking port 25 access or your MTA (SMTP server) may not be
listening. Neither of these is a Mailman issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman-user at darksleep.com  Wed Nov 17 17:29:35 2004
From: mailman-user at darksleep.com (Steven J. Owens)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 11:29:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411161354170140d32a2ebd@msapiro>
References: <20041116094648.GA5503@localhost>
	<PC1722200411161354170140d32a2ebd@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041117162935.GB5503@localhost>

Mark,

On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 01:54:17PM -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >I can't see a mailmanctl daemon with:
> >     ps -aux| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
> 
> Note that on Red Hat 7.3, with an 80 column screen, I have to do 
>      ps -auxw| grep mailmanctl |grep -v grep
> in order to see anything.

     Even with -auxw I get nothing.

     However, I just sent a message out to a mailing list and it went
through properly. 
 
> There should be a "mailmanctl -s -q start" running that was started by
> /etc/init.d/mailman. It in turn should have started all the qrunner
> processes which should also be running (a total of eight qrunners
> assuming no slicing). If a qrunner stops, mailmanctl should notice and
> restart it, but if mailmanctl stops too then so does everything except
> receipt and queueing of messages.

     Where is mailmanctl normally supposed to be started from?  I
don't see any reference to mailmanctl in /etc/cron.d/mailman.

     I do see mailmanctl in /etc/init.d/mailman.  Does that mean that
the mailmanctl process should be started on system startup and should
remain running until system shutdown?

     I still want to solve the problem, but meanwhile, would there be
any negative effect to adding an hourly cron job to restart
mailmanctl?  Or perhaps to run a script to check that
/var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid is a valid process ID, else
restart mailmanctl?
 
> >The only thing I can find in the logs that looks suspicious is:
> >qrunner:
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
> >Nov 11 16:19:27 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
> >Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1060) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >Nov 11 18:30:26 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.  Stopping.
> >Nov 11 18:30:33 2004 (1061) IncomingRunner qrunner exiting.
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> We don't know why the incoming and outgoing runners are  receiving
> SIGTERM, but this will cause the problem because they will quit and
> the master won't restart them. See
> 
>    bin/mailmanctl --help

     I've just learned something new... while I was trying to check for
mailmanctl again, I got:

17:07:30, puff at darksleep:~> ps -auxw| grep mailmanctl
bash: pipe error: Too many open files in system 

     Could be the system is running out of filehandles and mailman's
falling over as a result?

     Could mailman be consuming a whole lot of filehandles?

-- 
Steven J. Owens
puff at darksleep.com

"I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong,
 declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and
 this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read.
 Take it all with a grain of salt." - http://darksleep.com/notablog



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Nov 17 17:38:57 2004
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 10:38:57 -0600 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman on OS X 10.3.5 with apache, problems
In-Reply-To: <FA266E90-38AB-11D9-8346-000A95A7D4D6@truman.edu>
References: <FA266E90-38AB-11D9-8346-000A95A7D4D6@truman.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0411171031430.24872@albion.stonejongleux.com>

On Wed, 17 Nov 2004, Jason Miller wrote:

> Can anyone point me to a HOWTO for getting Mailman to work with OS X
> 10.3.5? I've googled and googled and googled, read as much on-line
> information as I can find, and I have little to show for it.

See the instructions I wrote which are linked from the FAQ entry Mark
referenced or just go there directly at
<http://mai.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-September/039600.html>

> One bit of info about my problem that I can offer is this:  when I try
> to go to http://localhost/mailman, I get a "Not Found" error even
> though I have
>
> Alias mailman/ "/Applications/mailman/"
>
> in my httpd.conf file.

I suspect that's your problem as my instructions do not have that
directive in them but does have a somewhat different ScriptAlias directive
for /mailman/ and an Alias directive for /pipermail/. For that matter, I
don't see that directive in the afp548.com article you referenced so I
don't know why you think you want that there (but I'm an Apache neophyte -
I just followed the directions I received).

-- Larry Stone
   lstone19 at stonejongleux.com




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 18 01:24:41 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:24:41 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get mailman on Panther Server
	working 	correctly
In-Reply-To: <p06110404bdc0afeeca40@[192.168.1.3]>
References: <p06110404bdc0afeeca40@[192.168.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p0600200cbdc19bdfb075@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:37 PM -0800 2004-11-16, Mark Altenberg wrote:

>  I'm having some kind of problem, perhaps with DNS or something, and my
>  list serve cannot accept mail from outside it's domain. I'm using Panther
>  Server, with it's built in SMTP server and stock MailMan. Any ideas?

	Well, you haven't given us much information.  Please see FAQs 
1.22 and 1.23 in the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.

	In addition, our ability to help with MacOS X Server and the 
Apple-customized version of Mailman may be limited.  See also FAQ 
1.21.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 18 01:33:13 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 01:33:13 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending
 messages
In-Reply-To: <20041117162935.GB5503@localhost>
References: <20041116094648.GA5503@localhost>
	<PC1722200411161354170140d32a2ebd@msapiro>
	<20041117162935.GB5503@localhost>
Message-ID: <p0600200dbdc19d26fd16@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:29 AM -0500 2004-11-17, Steven J. Owens wrote:

>       Even with -auxw I get nothing.

	You may need to toss in a second "w".  I know that I need to do 
this on some of the systems I admin.

>       Where is mailmanctl normally supposed to be started from?  I
>  don't see any reference to mailmanctl in /etc/cron.d/mailman.

	It is not started from cron.

>       I do see mailmanctl in /etc/init.d/mailman.  Does that mean that
>  the mailmanctl process should be started on system startup and should
>  remain running until system shutdown?

	Correct, it is started on boot and should remain running until shutdown.

>       I still want to solve the problem, but meanwhile, would there be
>  any negative effect to adding an hourly cron job to restart
>  mailmanctl?  Or perhaps to run a script to check that
>  /var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid is a valid process ID, else
>  restart mailmanctl?

	The latter might be a good idea, but I think the former could be a bad one.


	If possible, I would want that script to gather as much 
information as possible about the mailmanctl process that died or 
does not currently exist (including all left-over children, etc...), 
before doing the actual restart.

	There may be something else going on that would help you solve 
the real problem, if you can figure out what that is.

>  17:07:30, puff at darksleep:~> ps -auxw| grep mailmanctl
>  bash: pipe error: Too many open files in system

	Ouch!

>       Could be the system is running out of filehandles and mailman's
>  falling over as a result?

	That could certainly cause problems for any process on the 
system, Mailman included.

>       Could mailman be consuming a whole lot of filehandles?

	It will consume filehandles while it is opening, closing, and 
otherwise processing messages, or while pipermail is accessing the 
system archive as a response to a user request.  But it should only 
be processing a small number of messages at any one given moment in 
time, and shouldn't be running out of filehandles.

	It sounds to me like there is a more serious problem going on 
here that needs to be located and resolved before Mailman will be 
able to function normally.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Thu Nov 18 03:47:00 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2004 21:47:00 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411172126210.21518@access.ces.clemson.edu>

I am trying to move lists between servers and upgrade from 2.0.x to 2.1.5,
and it's not working.

I was able to recreate the archives with cleanarch and arch.  Then I move
the lists/mylist directory to the new server and run withlist -l -r
fix_url mylist.  Then I see the following problems:

(1) The list does not appear on either the listinfo or admin pages.

(2) I can go to the admin page directly at
my.site.com/mailman/admin/mylist, but if I submit any config changes or go
to any of the other admin pages, Mailman crashes with a "Premature end of
scripts" message.

Did I miss a step someplace?  Anyone else seen this problem when
upgrading?

TIA.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From spread3test at 163.com  Thu Nov 18 04:36:35 2004
From: spread3test at 163.com (=?gb2312?B?c3ByZWFkM3Rlc3Q=?=)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 11:36:35 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why i got more than 20 copies...
Message-ID: <419C18C3.000060.23458@m218.163.com>

   Hello.      i just installed mailman-2.1.5,it works,But I do receive 24 copies of all moderation messages. In short it seems anything sent by the software to me as list moderator comes in 24 copies or not at all.      what's wrong with it and how could i solve this problem,thanks.
From james.chen at qut.edu.au  Thu Nov 18 06:44:33 2004
From: james.chen at qut.edu.au (James Chen)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 15:44:33 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update 14000 list by config_list takes 48 hours
Message-ID: <200411180543.BZO65109@mail-router02.qut.edu.au>

 

Hi all,

 

We just deployed the Mailman for campus E-mail lists service recently and
are having some difficulties updating the 14000 lists on weekly basis.  The
lists data are extracted from Oracle Database and then spooled into two
files for each list, one file is for list members and the other is for the
configuration of list.  We call config_list.py to inject these two files
into Mailman database, Due to the performance of config_list.py, each inject
takes up to 5~10 seconds to complete  a  average list while longer for large
list. Apparently the bottleneck resides in the process when config_list
update the database in Mailman.

 

 Can someone in this list please advise is there different ways to
speed/tune up the update process?  

Regards

 

 

James Chen  


Information and Technology Division 
The Queensland University of Technology      Brisbane, Australia

 



From snake.lists at snakepit.net  Thu Nov 18 13:08:50 2004
From: snake.lists at snakepit.net (Russ Michaels (Snake))
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 12:08:50 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411161401130171a026eed8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041118120851.51C611E4006@bag.python.org>

 right, this wasn't running... It is now, every 5 minutes, but the list is
still not getting posts sent to the news server.
Any other possible causes ?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: 16 November 2004 22:01
> To: Russ Michaels (Snake); mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] News <-> list gateway
> 
> Russ Michaels (Snake) wrote:
> >
> >Posts made to the list will appear on the news server, but 
> not vice versa.
> >
> >Any idea why ?
> 
> Is gate_news being run by cron?
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> 




From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Thu Nov 18 13:23:27 2004
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:23:27 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
In-Reply-To: <20041118110049.D8C501E401D@bag.python.org>
References: <20041118110049.D8C501E401D@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411180719520.22263@seyyav.pair.com>

> >       I still want to solve the problem, but meanwhile, would there be
> >  any negative effect to adding an hourly cron job to restart
> >  mailmanctl?  Or perhaps to run a script to check that
> >  /var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid is a valid process ID, else
> >  restart mailmanctl?
>
> 	The latter might be a good idea, but I think the former could be a bad one.

I'm curiuos as to why you feel restarting the mailmanctl every few hours
is bad?  Running a cron to check for master-qrunner.pid won't catch an
individual qrunner that dies out.

Sean


From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Nov 18 13:43:58 2004
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:43:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411180719520.22263@seyyav.pair.com>
References: <20041118110049.D8C501E401D@bag.python.org>
	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0411180719520.22263@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20041118074358.21e04cfd@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:23:27 -0500 (EST)
Sean wrote:

> > >       I still want to solve the problem, but meanwhile, would
> > >       there be
> > >  any negative effect to adding an hourly cron job to restart
> > >  mailmanctl?  Or perhaps to run a script to check that
> > >  /var/lib/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid is a valid process ID,
> > >  else restart mailmanctl?
> >
> > 	The latter might be a good idea, but I think the former could be
> > 	a bad one.
> 
> I'm curiuos as to why you feel restarting the mailmanctl every few
> hours is bad?  Running a cron to check for master-qrunner.pid won't
> catch an individual qrunner that dies out.
> 
> Sean

Hi Sean,

I run several low traffic lists (rarely more than 10 messages per day
and fewer than 250 users per list).  I'd worry about a restart while
mailman is in operation.  Not knowing the code, there _could_ be
problems in nuking it unexpectedly.  With my low volume, "unexpected"
isn't likely to cause damage, but I'd be careful.

Several times I've had qrunner tasks die.  My solution is a daily cron
job /usr/local/bin/check.qrunner.sh which knows there should be 8 tasks
running, checks the count, and does the restart.

FWIW, here's the script:

##### /usr/local/bin/check.qrunner.sh #####

#!/bin/sh

PAT="bin/[q]runner"
CNT=`ps alxw | grep $PAT | wc -l | awk '{print $1}'`

if [ -z "$MAILTO" ] ; then
    CMD="cat"
else
    CMD="mail -s\"qrunner check\" $MAILTO"
fi

if [ "$CNT" == "8" ] ; then
    if [ -z "$MAILTO" ] ; then
        echo OK | $CMD
    fi
else
    ( \
        ps alxw | grep $PAT ; \
        ps alxw | grep $PAT | wc -l ; \
        service mailman restart \
    ) | sed "s@\ *.*select S.*   .... @@" \
      | service mailman restart \
      | $CMD
fi


From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Thu Nov 18 15:49:23 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 08:49:23 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Update 14000 list by config_list takes 48 hours
In-Reply-To: <20041118110049.22D4E1E4017@bag.python.org>
References: <20041118110049.22D4E1E4017@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1100789363.2183.5.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

James-

I am not an expert, but I would bet that writing a python script using
withlist to manipulate the objects within the list would have a better
performance footprint than using config_list.

Just a guess and I am sure that it require more programming than a
config_list solution.

Good Luck

Jim Jones

> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 05:00, mailman-users-request at python.org wrote:
        
           From: 
        James Chen
        <james.chen at qut.edu.au>
             To: 
        mailman-users at python.org
        Subject: 
        [Mailman-Users] Update 14000 list by config_list takes 48 hours
           Date: 
        Thu, 18
        Nov 2004
        15:44:33
        +1000
        
         
        
        Hi all,
        
         
        
        We just deployed the Mailman for campus E-mail lists service
        recently and
        are having some difficulties updating the 14000 lists on weekly
        basis.  The
        lists data are extracted from Oracle Database and then spooled
        into two
        files for each list, one file is for list members and the other
        is for the
        configuration of list.  We call config_list.py to inject these
        two files
        into Mailman database, Due to the performance of config_list.py,
        each inject
        takes up to 5~10 seconds to complete  a  average list while
        longer for large
        list. Apparently the bottleneck resides in the process when
        config_list
        update the database in Mailman.
        
         
        
         Can someone in this list please advise is there different ways
        to
        speed/tune up the update process?  
        
        Regards
        
         
        
         
        
        James Chen  
        
        
        Information and Technology Division 
        The Queensland University of Technology      Brisbane, Australia
        A.
-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 18 16:35:12 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:35:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411172126210.21518@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <PC172220041118073512075032afc9fa@msapiro>

Matthew Saltzman wrote:

>I am trying to move lists between servers and upgrade from 2.0.x to 2.1.5,
>and it's not working.
>
>I was able to recreate the archives with cleanarch and arch.  Then I move
>the lists/mylist directory to the new server and run withlist -l -r
>fix_url mylist.  Then I see the following problems:
>
>(1) The list does not appear on either the listinfo or admin pages.
>
>(2) I can go to the admin page directly at
>my.site.com/mailman/admin/mylist, but if I submit any config changes or go
>to any of the other admin pages, Mailman crashes with a "Premature end of
>scripts" message.
>
>Did I miss a step someplace?  Anyone else seen this problem when
>upgrading?

If you create a new list, is everything OK with it?

Are DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST set appropriately in
mm_cfg.py?

Did you run bin/update after moving the list directory?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 18 16:44:08 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 07:44:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why i got more than 20 copies...
In-Reply-To: <419C18C3.000060.23458@m218.163.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041118074408006232afc746@msapiro>

<spread3test at 163.com> wrote:
>
>   Hello.      i just installed mailman-2.1.5,it works,But I do receive 24 copies of all moderation messages. In short it seems anything sent by the software to me as list moderator comes in 24 copies or not at all.      what's wrong with it and how could i solve this problem,thanks.

It seems you have an addressing loop of some kind involving the
"listname-owner" address. What happens if you mail "listname-owner"
directly?

Check the MTA alias for the -owner address and check the entries for
owner and moderator in the list configuration.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Thu Nov 18 18:07:10 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 09:07:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] why i got more than 20 copies...
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041118074408006232afc746@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDC216BE.1868C%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/18/2004 7:44, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> <spread3test at 163.com> wrote:
>> 
>>   Hello.      i just installed mailman-2.1.5,it works,But I do receive 24
>> copies of all moderation messages. In short it seems anything sent by the
>> software to me as list moderator comes in 24 copies or not at all.
>> what's wrong with it and how could i solve this problem,thanks.
> 
> It seems you have an addressing loop of some kind involving the
> "listname-owner" address. What happens if you mail "listname-owner"
> directly?
> 
> Check the MTA alias for the -owner address and check the entries for
> owner and moderator in the list configuration.
> 

In addition, check the Message-Id: headers (if present) in the messages and
check the Received: headers to see where the messages are going.

This problem likely isn't in the FAQs...I haven't seen it reported in the
several years I've been on this list (back to about the Mailman 2.0.4
timeframe).  It would seem you have done something new, which is refreshing!

  --John


From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Thu Nov 18 20:39:19 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:39:19 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041118073512075032afc9fa@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041118073512075032afc9fa@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411181435270.22865@orchard-hays.ces.clemson.edu>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> >I am trying to move lists between servers and upgrade from 2.0.x to 2.1.5,
> >and it's not working.
> >
> >I was able to recreate the archives with cleanarch and arch.  Then I move
> >the lists/mylist directory to the new server and run withlist -l -r
> >fix_url mylist.  Then I see the following problems:
> >
> >(1) The list does not appear on either the listinfo or admin pages.
> >
> >(2) I can go to the admin page directly at
> >my.site.com/mailman/admin/mylist, but if I submit any config changes or go
> >to any of the other admin pages, Mailman crashes with a "Premature end of
> >scripts" message.
> >
> >Did I miss a step someplace?  Anyone else seen this problem when
> >upgrading?
>
> If you create a new list, is everything OK with it?

Yes.

>
> Are DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST set appropriately in
> mm_cfg.py?

Actually, I figured out the problem, which was that I was using the mail
URL for the list in fix_url rather than Mailman's Web host URL.  I reran
fix_url and reset the mail host in the interface and all seems well.

>
> Did you run bin/update after moving the list directory?

It wasn't clear from the UPGRADING readme that that step was necessary.
bin/update seems like it will update Mailman itself (which may not be
desirable).  Is it necessary for moving mailing lists?  What does it do
for 2.0-2.1 upgrades?

Thanks.

>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Thu Nov 18 19:55:22 2004
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 13:55:22 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_and_cmd_autoresponses
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411181353180.22263@seyyav.pair.com>

Hi,

Does anyone know what this option does: hold_and_cmd_autoresponses

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 upgraded from 2.0.6.  I can't find that option
anywhere in the web interface.

Thanks,
Sean


From frankt at pdx.edu  Thu Nov 18 23:41:08 2004
From: frankt at pdx.edu (Frank Torres)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 14:41:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive pipermail question
Message-ID: <1100817668.20734.51.camel@madeye>

  Ok, lets say you have an list that was public and with in the archive
folks have sent various attachments. Now Looking at the archive at the
end there is an hotlink with the attachment in the archive. Next you
click on it brings up whether to save it open under another program etc.
Now lets say you actually did not want the archive to be public you now
go to the administration interface and set it private. All good now you
have use your e-mail address and password to get to the archive great.
Now your in the archive you click on an attachment and guess what error
no attachment can be found ugh?
  My question is simple is there an easy way around this problem or
should I find fifth of vodka and call it day. Basically the dilemma is I
am converting old majordomo lists that have attachments but some of the
mailman archives need to be set private. Any ideas are welcome thanks

PS:
  I am using the mailman/bin/arch program to bring the archives over
from majordomo.

-- 
Best Regards,
Frank Torres <frankt at pdx.edu>
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From msb at ichp.ufl.edu  Thu Nov 18 23:59:25 2004
From: msb at ichp.ufl.edu (Matthew S. Barnes)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 17:59:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with Mailman Web Admin Interface
Message-ID: <7E5F73CC2981F2449B7AE2F03C2C0C6996D2@exchange2.ichp.edu>

Hi All 
I am having trouble with the admin web interface on a new install of
Mailman version 2.1.5 (mandrake 10.1 )
The problem is that whenever I save anything using the list admin
webpage the server returns an internal error
originally I thought it was due to changing hostnames for the box (after
installing mailman) and after reading these posts and following the
directions here:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>
&file=faq04.045.htp
 I am still getting the errors. 
 
Other than not being able to add email addresses or otherwise use the
admin web interface , IE changing list settings, everything else seems
to be working fine. I was hoping to get a few hints on what I might have
misconfigured or maybe where to look? 
I have been thru mm_cfg.py and all looks good
 
 
#  site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'lists.ichp.ufl.edu'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.ichp.ufl.edu'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
MTA = 'Postfix'

I deleted and recreated the lists just to be sure and still same problem
stopped restarted mailman and postfix and apache after tweaking the
config
I tried to run 
#./withlist -l -r fix_url.py -a 
but doesn't seem to help (maybe im not running it right?
this is why I just blew away the list and started over but the admin
interface still throws an Internal Server 500 error when I create new
lists and go in and try to change things..
 
any help is greatly appreciated
 
VR/msb
 
Matthew S Barnes (FTC/SS/DV) 
Network Administrator 
Institute for Child Health Policy 
Epidemiology and Health Policy Research
5700 S.W. 34th Street Suite 139 
Gainesville FL 32608 
Phone: (352)392-7745 
Cell:     (352)226-0955 
Fax :    (352) 265-7221 
Email: msb at ichp.ufl.edu
Help:   helpdesk at ichp.ufl.edu
Web:   http://help.ichp.ufl.edu <http://help.ichp.ufl.edu/> 
 


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 19 05:52:48 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:52:48 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <BBE547A4-38A9-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <8EF71ED5-3737-11D9-8176-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
	<20041116014315.GC13806@server.onjapan.net>
	<080D9088-3806-11D9-995D-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
	<20041117135904.GA30093@server.onjapan.net>
	<6D820A28-38A6-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
	<BBE547A4-38A9-11D9-B36F-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <20041119045248.GA29234@server.onjapan.net>

On Wed, Nov 17, 2004 at 03:02:43PM +0000, PeteBell wrote:
> If I could find a way that a member could log in, thereby downloading 
> the session-long cookie, but NOT being taken to either of the above 
> mailman-generated pages, I still wouldn't need to get involved with 
> having my own mailman installation.

The session cookies issued by Mailman apply to the path
/mailman (or the first part of the web URL if you've changed
the DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN), so I don't think this will help you
achieve your stated goal (without changing Mailman).


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 19 06:14:58 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:14:58 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] hold_and_cmd_autoresponses
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411181353180.22263@seyyav.pair.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411181353180.22263@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <20041119051458.GB29234@server.onjapan.net>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 01:55:22PM -0500, Sean wrote:
> Does anyone know what this option does: hold_and_cmd_autoresponses
> [...] I can't find that option anywhere in the web interface.

Mailman uses the hold_and_cmd_autoresponses dictionary to limit
the number of autoresponses sent to an email address in a given
day.  It is not intended to be manipulated by the administrator
or user, but is just a sanity check to prevent mail loops.

The "knob" that the system administrator adjusts is
MAX_AUTORESPONSES_PER_DAY which can be set in your mm_cfg.py.
This setting applies across the Mailman instance.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 19 07:04:36 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:04:36 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Changing bounce_score_threshold punts subscribers?
In-Reply-To: <35de0c3004111611097315a8f7@mail.gmail.com>
References: <35de0c3004111611097315a8f7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <20041119060436.GB29570@server.onjapan.net>

On Tue, Nov 16, 2004 at 02:09:24PM -0500, Bryan Fullerton wrote:
> Why wasn't their bounce score determined to be stale and discarded?
> bounce_info_stale_after is set to 3 (was set to 7 until last night).

The cron/disabled task doesn't consider the "staleness" of the
bounces.  (The comments say it is intentionally done to catch the
case where the bounce threshold was reduced after someone has
started bouncing.  I suspect this is a bug, since the bouncer
only seems to purge "stale" info when a new bounce is
registered.)

> Why was it logged that they were disabled due to a probe bounce when
> that wasn't the case? My mail server is pretty quick, but I can't see

The same log message is used in the normal course of events
when someone is disabled by the probe bounces.  The special
case of the threshold being reduced after someone has started
bouncing reuses that code (and flags the reason for disabling
the subscriber with the same code, BYBOUNCE).


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 19 07:05:40 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:05:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411181435270.22865@orchard-hays.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411182205400125f5756985@msapiro>

Matthew Saltzman wrote:

>On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Did you run bin/update after moving the list directory?
>
>It wasn't clear from the UPGRADING readme that that step was necessary.
>bin/update seems like it will update Mailman itself (which may not be
>desirable).  Is it necessary for moving mailing lists?  What does it do
>for 2.0-2.1 upgrades?

bin/update converts data files, qfiles, list data, etc. as necessary to
bring them from an older format to that of the current Mailman. If you
have an installation and you upgrade the Mailman software, the update
is run automatically as part of the upgrade. However, if you move an
existing list that is in an old format to an already installed newer
Mailman version (which is what I thought you did, but maybe not), I
think you need to run bin/update to update the list files.

If you moved to the new server and then upgraded to 2.1.5, then you
don't need to run bin/update separately. If you installed 2.1.5 on the
new server and then moved your lists from the old server, I think you
do need to run bin/update.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at BlastZone.com  Fri Nov 19 07:40:53 2004
From: greg at BlastZone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2004 22:40:53 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora
	Core 2?
Message-ID: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>

Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2?  I've been trying on and off for the last few weeks, without success.  Looking through the mailling list archives I've seen several threads on problems getting Mailman to compile on Fedora core 2, which is exactly what i'm having trouble with.  

The box I'm trying to get mailman installed on has python version 2.3.3.

Any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.  Here's a sample output of when i try to run Make Install:

[root at mx mailman-2.1.5]# make install
Creating architecture independent directories...
chmod o-r /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
Creating architecture dependent directories...
make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/mailman-2.1.5/bin'
for f in mmsitepass newlist rmlist add_members list_members remove_members clone_member update arch sync_members check_db withlist check_perms find_member version config_list list_lists dumpdb cleanarch list_admins genaliases change_pw mailmanctl qrunner inject unshunt fix_url.py convert.py transcheck b4b5-archfix list_owners msgfmt.py show_qfiles discard rb-archfix; \
do \
    /usr/bin/install -c -m 755 ../build/bin/$f /usr/local/mailman/bin; \
done
make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mailman-2.1.5/bin'
make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/mailman-2.1.5/cron'
for f in crontab.in; \
do \
    /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 $f /usr/local/mailman/cron; \
done
for f in checkdbs mailpasswds senddigests gate_news nightly_gzip bumpdigests disabled; \
do \
    /usr/bin/install -c -m 755 ../build/cron/$f /usr/local/mailman/cron; \
done
make[1]: Leaving directory `/tmp/mailman-2.1.5/cron'
make[1]: Entering directory `/tmp/mailman-2.1.5/misc'
/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 ./*.jpg ./*.png /usr/local/mailman/icons
for d in bin cron scripts tests; \
do \
    dir=/usr/local/mailman/$d; \
    /usr/bin/install -c -m 644 paths.py $dir; \
done
/usr/bin/install -c -m 755 mailman /usr/local/mailman/scripts
/usr/bin/install -c -m 644 sitelist.cfg /usr/local/mailman/data
for p in email-2.5.5 JapaneseCodecs-1.4.10 KoreanCodecs-2.0.5; \
do \
    gunzip -c ./$p.tar.gz | (cd . ; tar xf -); \
    (cd ./$p ; umask 02 ; PYTHONPATH=/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib /usr/bin/python setup.py --quiet install --install-lib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib --install-purelib /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib --install-data /usr/local/mailman/pythonlib); \
done
/usr/lib/python2.3/distutils/dist.py:213: UserWarning: 'licence' distribution option is deprecated; use 'license'
  warnings.warn(msg)
src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:20: Python.h: No such file or directory
src/_japanese_codecs.c:16: error: syntax error before '*' token
src/_japanese_codecs.c:16: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
src/_japanese_codecs.c:21: error: syntax error before '*' token
src/_japanese_codecs.c:21: error: syntax error before '*' token
src/_japanese_codecs.c: In function `codec_tuple':
src/_japanese_codecs.c:23: error: `PyObject' undeclared (first use in this function)
src/_japanese_codecs.c:23: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
src/_japanese_codecs.c:23: error: for each function it appears in.)

And then it just goes on and on with more and more errors.


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 19 09:52:22 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:52:22 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on
	Fedora Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
References: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <20041119085222.GA30906@server.onjapan.net>

On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:40:53PM -0800, Greg Deputy wrote:
> Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2?

Sure.  That has been my primary platform.  I've not had any
trouble building the distribution archive.

> src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:20: Python.h: No such file or directory

It looks like you are missing part of the Python installation.
Did you forget to install the python-devel package?  (It includes
Python.h among other things.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Fri Nov 19 12:56:24 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 06:56:24 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411182205400125f5756985@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411182205400125f5756985@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411190644560.27024@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> >On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >> Did you run bin/update after moving the list directory?
> >
> >It wasn't clear from the UPGRADING readme that that step was necessary.
> >bin/update seems like it will update Mailman itself (which may not be
> >desirable).  Is it necessary for moving mailing lists?  What does it do
> >for 2.0-2.1 upgrades?
>
> bin/update converts data files, qfiles, list data, etc. as necessary to
> bring them from an older format to that of the current Mailman. If you
> have an installation and you upgrade the Mailman software, the update
> is run automatically as part of the upgrade. However, if you move an
> existing list that is in an old format to an already installed newer
> Mailman version (which is what I thought you did, but maybe not), I
> think you need to run bin/update to update the list files.
>
> If you moved to the new server and then upgraded to 2.1.5, then you
> don't need to run bin/update separately. If you installed 2.1.5 on the
> new server and then moved your lists from the old server, I think you
> do need to run bin/update.

Can bin/update be run to fix up the list files without risking updating
the software itself?

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From damir.miklavcic at lpp.si  Fri Nov 19 13:07:03 2004
From: damir.miklavcic at lpp.si (syse)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:07:03 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] genaliases
Message-ID: <419DE1E7.9080705@lpp.si>

Helo !
I have a problem with genaliases script!
When I did run it noting was created no aliases no aliases.db files! I 
have previously created lists for mailman!
Well here is the output of genalias command which should normaly create  
alias  files in maiman/data directory!
Has anybody run on such problem?
Regards, Damir

/var/mailman/bin/genaliases
To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
`newaliases' program:

## lpp_obvestila mailing list
lpp_obvestila:              "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-owner:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe 
lpp_obvestila"
lpp_obvestila-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
lpp_obvestil a"

## mailman mailing list
mailman:              "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
mailman-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
mailman-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
mailman-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
mailman-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
mailman-owner:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
mailman-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Nov 19 14:07:31 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:07:31 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <1100817668.20734.51.camel@madeye>
References: <1100817668.20734.51.camel@madeye>
Message-ID: <419DF013.3000801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

>   My question is simple is there an easy way around this problem or
> should I find fifth of vodka and call it day. Basically the dilemma is I
> am converting old majordomo lists that have attachments but some of the
> mailman archives need to be set private. Any ideas are welcome thanks

You should first set archives private then generate pipermail archive by
bin/arch --wipe <listname>.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Nov 19 14:23:13 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:23:13 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with Mailman Web Admin Interface
In-Reply-To: <7E5F73CC2981F2449B7AE2F03C2C0C6996D2@exchange2.ichp.edu>
References: <7E5F73CC2981F2449B7AE2F03C2C0C6996D2@exchange2.ichp.edu>
Message-ID: <419DF3C1.6080203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi,

Matthew S. Barnes wrote:

> The problem is that whenever I save anything using the list admin
> webpage the server returns an internal error

May be it's cookie error. Clear the browser's cookies before accessing 
the admin page.

> this is why I just blew away the list and started over but the admin
> interface still throws an Internal Server 500 error when I create new
> lists and go in and try to change things..
>  
Have you checked your web server error log for the reason of 500 error?
Also, you check the mailman logs/error log.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From sythos at sythos.net  Fri Nov 19 14:25:25 2004
From: sythos at sythos.net (Sythos)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:25:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] pipermail archive over XXX time
Message-ID: <20041119132525.GA20568@sythos.net>

There is a way to say pipermail to delete archive older than XXX time?
(day, month or years)?


-- 

Sythos - http://www.sythos.net

  ()  ASCII Ribbon Campaign - against html/rtf/vCard in mail
  /\                        - against M$ attachments
    


From damir.miklavcic at lpp.si  Fri Nov 19 14:58:20 2004
From: damir.miklavcic at lpp.si (damir miklavcic)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:58:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with generating aliases
Message-ID: <419DFBFC.70706@lpp.si>

Hi,
I have problems with genaliases script!
Whenever I run /bin/genaliases I don't get anything in /mailman/data 
directory! There should be 2 files genereted by that script (aliases & 
aliases.db)!
Have anybody had this problem
Regards Damir


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Fri Nov 19 15:02:03 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:02:03 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
Message-ID: <96F42C1A-3A33-11D9-A05D-000393863774@ntlworld.com>

It seems the answer I keep being given whenever I ask questions on here 
about logging-in, having a sync'd database of my members and their 
passwords, and creating a 'front-end' web interface for my list, is 
that I would be best advised to have my own mailman installation rather 
than use the one which is shared by all the clients on my host's 
servers.

So I asked him how practical that was and this is what he said...

> I'm not actually convinced of how well it would work - because mailman 
> is an
> integral part of they system it physically watches the inbound mail 
> queues
> for messages bound for you.. The question you need to ask them really 
> is -
> has this ever been done under cPanel, where a system wide installation
> already exists?
>
> In this scenario you'd be a prime candidate for a Virtual Dedicated 
> Server
> http://www.betterwebspace.com/Newsletters/20040923.php so that you had
> complete control, or even your own server - both of which I must find 
> time
> to decide if I'm going to launch!


So. Now it's back to you guys:  Has anyone actually done this when 
there is already a shared installation under cPanel, and if so, can you 
give me a hand-holding guide to how it's done for a novice?

Cheers
Pete Bell, UK



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Fri Nov 19 15:16:09 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 23:16:09 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Trouble with generating aliases
In-Reply-To: <419DFBFC.70706@lpp.si>
References: <419DFBFC.70706@lpp.si>
Message-ID: <20041119141609.GC685@server.onjapan.net>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 02:58:20PM +0100, damir miklavcic wrote:
> I have problems with genaliases script!
> Whenever I run /bin/genaliases I don't get anything in /mailman/data 
> directory! There should be 2 files genereted by that script (aliases & 
> aliases.db)!

I believe that is Postfix-specific behavior.  Did you set:
  MTA = 'Postfix'
in your mm_cfg.py?


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From robin at bullseye.tv  Fri Nov 19 15:30:38 2004
From: robin at bullseye.tv (Robin Mordasiewicz)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:30:38 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on
	Fedora	Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
References: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.60.0411190930230.9104@mail.bullseye.tv>

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004, Greg Deputy wrote:
> Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2?  I've been trying on and off for the last few weeks, without success.  Looking through the mailling list archives I've seen several threads on problems getting Mailman to compile on Fedora core 2, which is exactly what i'm having trouble with.
>
works fine for me.


From amahoro at adinet.com.uy  Fri Nov 19 17:52:36 2004
From: amahoro at adinet.com.uy (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Arlequ=EDn?=)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:52:36 -0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting subscribers list
Message-ID: <419E24D4.7080901@adinet.com.uy>

Hello, there!

I am using MailMain trough its web-based interface. I don't have access
to the server where its runs, because it's a third-party hosting company
which provides me the MailMan service.

I want to export the subscribers list in a format like this:

subscriber1 at mydomain.com
subscriber2 at mydomain.com
. . . . . . .
subscriber9 at mydomain.com

I wasn't able to find the way to perform this operation, searching
deeply into the options tree.

Is it possible to obtain this kind of list?

T.I.A.

-- 
Arlequ?n                             _o)
amahoro_AT_adinet_DOT_com_DOT_uy     / \\
http://counter.li.org/             _(___V
Linux Registered User              #207262



From greg at blastzone.com  Fri Nov 19 18:45:39 2004
From: greg at blastzone.com (Greg Deputy)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 09:45:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
	onFedora Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <20041119085222.GA30906@server.onjapan.net>
Message-ID: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>

> 
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2004 at 10:40:53PM -0800, Greg Deputy wrote:
> > Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2?
> 
> Sure.  That has been my primary platform.  I've not had any 
> trouble building the distribution archive.
> 
> > src/_japanese_codecs.c:12:20: Python.h: No such file or directory
> 
> It looks like you are missing part of the Python 
> installation. Did you forget to install the python-devel 
> package?  (It includes Python.h among other things.)
> 

That was the problem.  I installed the python-devel package and now its
good to go.  Thanks!

I didn't see anything in the INSTALL file about that besides having
python installed, and being a linux newbie I didn't realize I needed
that in addition to the standard python installation.  Seems like
something the configure script would check for, no?

Thanks for the help.



From gjjones1 at usi.edu  Fri Nov 19 19:44:08 2004
From: gjjones1 at usi.edu (G James Jones)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:44:08 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] genaliases
In-Reply-To: <20041119174441.624661E400F@bag.python.org>
References: <20041119174441.624661E400F@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <1100889847.1925.11.camel@chameleon.usi.edu>

> 
> ______________________________________________________________________
> From: syse <damir.miklavcic at lpp.si>
> To: mailman-users <mailman-users at python.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] genaliases
> Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:07:03 +0100
> 
> Helo !
> I have a problem with genaliases script!
> When I did run it noting was created no aliases no aliases.db files! I 
> have previously created lists for mailman!
> Well here is the output of genalias command which should normaly create  
> alias  files in maiman/data directory!
> Has anybody run on such problem?
> Regards, Damir
> 
> /var/mailman/bin/genaliases
> To finish creating your mailing list, you must edit your /etc/aliases (or
> equivalent) file by adding the following lines, and possibly running the
> `newaliases' program:
>

I don't think it creates those files anymore.  The section above tells
you exactly what to do.  You need to edit the postfix aliases file.  It
is sometimes under /etc/aliases and other times it is under
/etc/postfix/aliases.  Copy the output of the script (below) to that
file and then run the newaliases program to update the aliases DB.

It works for me at least.

> 
> ## lpp_obvestila mailing list
> lpp_obvestila:              "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-owner:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe 
> lpp_obvestila"
> lpp_obvestila-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe 
> lpp_obvestil a"
> 
> ## mailman mailing list
> mailman:              "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
> mailman-admin:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
> mailman-bounces:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
> mailman-confirm:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
> mailman-join:         "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
> mailman-leave:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
> mailman-owner:        "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
> mailman-request:      "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
> mailman-subscribe:    "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
> mailman-unsubscribe:  "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
> 
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________

-- 
Jim Jones
Systems Analyst
Computer Center
University of Southern Indiana
Phone: (812) 461-5402



From aaron.bennett at olin.edu  Fri Nov 19 20:02:07 2004
From: aaron.bennett at olin.edu (Aaron Bennett)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:02:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing MTA from sendmail -> procmail
Message-ID: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>

Hi,

I've got an established mailman installation on RHEL 3 and I'm planning 
to change that system's MTA from sendmail to procmail.  Does anyone know 
of any gotchas or other things I need to look out for?  I'm assuming 
that in a non-virtual-domain setup like this it should be fairly simple: 
make sure I've got backups of /etc/aliases and then uses Redhat's nifty 
little redhat-switch-mail program to change to postfix....

Anyone have scars from a similiar assumption?

:-)


-- 
Aaron Bennett
UNIX Administrator
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering




From danm at prime.gushi.org  Fri Nov 19 20:10:12 2004
From: danm at prime.gushi.org (Dan Mahoney, System Admin)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:10:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing MTA from sendmail -> procmail
In-Reply-To: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
References: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
Message-ID: <20041119140820.A95677@prime.gushi.org>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Aaron Bennett wrote:

Procmail is not an MTA.  It does not speak SMTP inbound or outbound.  It 
is merely a "delivery agent", which takes the mail once sendmail (or 
another MTA) gets it in from the grid and handles stuffing it in a box.

I'm quite familiar with the setup you're going to -- essentially you use 
procmail to replace sendmail's mail.local.

Postfix, is a different animal.


> Hi,
>
> I've got an established mailman installation on RHEL 3 and I'm planning to 
> change that system's MTA from sendmail to procmail.  Does anyone know of any 
> gotchas or other things I need to look out for?  I'm assuming that in a 
> non-virtual-domain setup like this it should be fairly simple: make sure I've 
> got backups of /etc/aliases and then uses Redhat's nifty little 
> redhat-switch-mail program to change to postfix....
>
> Anyone have scars from a similiar assumption?
>
> :-)
>
>
>

--

"We are basically...'Bandwidth Pimps'...Hrmmm...But that's cool man!  You see these gold chains?  It's all good!"

-Ali Dhoon
03/03/2003, 7PM

--------Dan Mahoney--------
Techie,  Sysadmin,  WebGeek
Gushi on efnet/undernet IRC
ICQ: 13735144   AIM: LarpGM
Site:  http://www.gushi.org
---------------------------



From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Nov 19 20:09:21 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:09:21 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing MTA from sendmail -> procmail
In-Reply-To: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
References: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
Message-ID: <1100891361.14363.32.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 14:02, Aaron Bennett wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've got an established mailman installation on RHEL 3 and I'm planning 
> to change that system's MTA from sendmail to procmail.  Does anyone know 
> of any gotchas or other things I need to look out for?  I'm assuming 
> that in a non-virtual-domain setup like this it should be fairly simple: 
> make sure I've got backups of /etc/aliases and then uses Redhat's nifty 
> little redhat-switch-mail program to change to postfix....
> 
> Anyone have scars from a similiar assumption?

Ah, I'm assuming your got your names mixed up and you meant postfix not
procmail.

And yes, postfix works quite well with mailman.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From aaron.bennett at olin.edu  Fri Nov 19 20:13:07 2004
From: aaron.bennett at olin.edu (Aaron Bennett)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:13:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing MTA from sendmail -> *postfix*
In-Reply-To: <1100891361.14363.32.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
References: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
	<1100891361.14363.32.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>
Message-ID: <419E45C3.2040103@olin.edu>

John Dennis wrote:

>procmail.
>
>And yes, postfix works quite well with mailman.
>  
>
> Ah, I'm assuming your got your names mixed up and you meant postfix not

egads.

Brain freeze.  I mean postfix.  I was thinking of postfix all along and 
I probably even though postfix while I was typing and somehow my fingers 
hit the keys for to spell 'procmail' instead. 

Egads again.

So, now that I've made an ass of myself in front of millions of 
people... :-)

allow me to restate.  I'm going to migrate from sendmail -> postfix; are 
there any gotchas I need to be aware of in that migration from a mailman 
perspective?

sheepishly,

Aaron

-- 
Aaron Bennett
UNIX Administrator
Franklin W. Olin College of Engineering




From jdennis at redhat.com  Fri Nov 19 20:14:34 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:14:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] changing MTA from sendmail -> procmail
In-Reply-To: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
References: <419E432F.9080808@olin.edu>
Message-ID: <1100891673.14363.39.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 14:02, Aaron Bennett wrote:
> make sure I've got backups of /etc/aliases

P.S. you may want to define your MTA in mm_cfg.py to postfix. This will
cause mailman to automatically add the aliases to your list of aliases.
This is a separate alias file unique to mailman. You'll have to add this
alias file to postfix's alias_maps parameter in /etc/postfix/main.cf.
Full instructions are in the /usr/share/doc/mailman-*/READEME.POSTFIX
file.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Fri Nov 19 21:50:29 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 12:50:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on
	Fedora	Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
References: <200411182240.AA777912446@Blastzone.com>
Message-ID: <736933FC4C95839D58D08635@[10.169.6.246]>

--On Thursday, November 18, 2004 10:40 PM -0800 Greg Deputy 
<greg at BlastZone.com> wrote:

> Has anyone successfully installed Mailman on Fedora Core 2?  I've been
> trying on and off for the last few weeks, without success.  Looking
> through the mailling list archives I've seen several threads on problems
> getting Mailman to compile on Fedora core 2, which is exactly what i'm
> having trouble with.

FC2 comes with mailman-2.1.4-4.i386.rpm and the update repository has 
2.1.5-7. Install with yum:

    yum install mailman

Or you could download the source RPM, rebuild it, and then install the 
resulting binary RPM:

    rpmbuild --rebuild mailman*.src.rpm
    rpm -Uvh mailman*.i386.rpm



From frankt at pdx.edu  Fri Nov 19 22:32:40 2004
From: frankt at pdx.edu (Frank Torres)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 13:32:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <419DF013.3000801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
References: <1100817668.20734.51.camel@madeye>
	<419DF013.3000801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <1100899960.20734.66.camel@madeye>

Ok, yea but is there a way to automate changing the list archive
(pipermail) to automatically change the attachments in archive over to
either public/private when the customer wants to change the archive
attribute?

On Fri, 2004-11-19 at 22:07 +0900, Tokio Kikuchi wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> >   My question is simple is there an easy way around this problem or
> > should I find fifth of vodka and call it day. Basically the dilemma is I
> > am converting old majordomo lists that have attachments but some of the
> > mailman archives need to be set private. Any ideas are welcome thanks
> 
> You should first set archives private then generate pipermail archive by
> bin/arch --wipe <listname>.
> 
-- 
Frank Torres <frankt at pdx.edu>
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From sean at sweetbourbon.com  Fri Nov 19 20:18:33 2004
From: sean at sweetbourbon.com (Sean)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 14:18:33 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5 [SOLVED]
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411191410350.32398@seyyav.pair.com>


Mark Sapiro wrote:

> bin/update converts data files, qfiles, list data, etc. as necessary to
> bring them from an older format to that of the current Mailman. If you
> have an installation and you upgrade the Mailman software, the update
> is run automatically as part of the upgrade. However, if you move an
> existing list that is in an old format to an already installed newer
> Mailman version (which is what I thought you did, but maybe not), I
> think you need to run bin/update to update the list files.
>
> If you moved to the new server and then upgraded to 2.1.5, then you
> don't need to run bin/update separately. If you installed 2.1.5 on the
> new server and then moved your lists from the old server, I think you
> do need to run bin/update.

Running bin/update is not necessary if you only use the config.db file to
move the list from Mailman 2.0.  I've moved lots of lists over from
Mailman 2.0 to Mailman 2.1 and never ran update.

After creating the list on the 2.1 server I put the old config.db file in
the list directory, rename the config.pck to config.pck.bak, and then
access the list via the web interface.  Mailman converts the config.db
file to a config.pck file.  Of course the web_page_url needs updated to
the new server.

I've never encountered any problems moving this in this manner.

Sean


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 20 00:02:23 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:02:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Member and password database
In-Reply-To: <96F42C1A-3A33-11D9-A05D-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
References: <96F42C1A-3A33-11D9-A05D-000393863774@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06002026bdc42b1b43a0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:02 PM +0000 2004-11-19, PeteBell wrote:

>>  I'm not actually convinced of how well it would work - because mailman is an
>>  integral part of they system it physically watches the inbound mail queues
>>  for messages bound for you.. The question you need to ask them really is -
>>  has this ever been done under cPanel, where a system wide installation
>>  already exists?

	I can't speak for the way that cPanel has modified Mailman, but I 
can assure you that the standard version is not integrated at all 
into the OS and it does not watch the inbound mail queues.  It can 
run on a wide variety of OSes, and so long as certain minimum 
requirements are met, it doesn't care whether you run it on X or Y. 
As for the inbound mail queues, those are all handled by the MTA, 
which is responsible for handing off messages to Mailman.

	To be honest, this sounds like a complete load of bollocks, from 
someone who doesn't understand Thing One about how Mailman actually 
works.  Of course, I could be wrong, but if that is true then I'm 
surprised that the cPanel folks would still call the result 
"Mailman", because they would have modified the code so much as to be 
virtually unrecognizable.

>  So. Now it's back to you guys:  Has anyone actually done this when there
>  is already a shared installation under cPanel, and if so, can you give me
>  a hand-holding guide to how it's done for a novice?

	If it's cPanel, there's not much we can do for you.  You're more 
likely to be able to get help from other cPanel users than anyone 
else.

	See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp> 
for more information.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From dougs at dawnsign.com  Sat Nov 20 00:39:48 2004
From: dougs at dawnsign.com (Doug Sampson)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:39:48 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %(confirmurl)s variable in verify.txt
Message-ID: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F4@mercury.dawnsign.com>

Hi all,

I am new to the Mailman. I've recently configured a new Debian server using
Mailman (ver 2.0.11) and I have just one problem that I cannot resolve. It
is the %(confirmurl)s variable found in the verify.txt file. When an email
is sent out to verify subscription to a list, the email looks like this:

#######################


Mailing list subscription confirmation notice for mailing list Testone

We have received a request from 192.168.2.254 for subscription of your
email address, "dsampson01 at nospam.cox.net", to the
testone at nospam.lists.dawnsign.com
mailing list. To confirm that you want to be added to this mailing
list, simply reply to this message, keeping the Subject: header
intact. Or visit this web page:

%(confirmurl)s
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Or include the following line -- and only the following line -- in a
message to testone-request at nospam.lists.dawnsign.com:

confirm 800039

Note that simply sending a `reply' to this message should work from
most mail readers, since that usually leaves the Subject: line in the
right form (additional "Re:" text in the Subject: is okay).

If you do not wish to be subscribed to this list, please simply
disregard this message. If you think you are being maliciously
subscribed to the list, or have any other questions, send them to
testone-admin at nospam.lists.dawnsign.com.


#######################

How do I fix so an actual URL appears instead of the %(confirmurl)s variable
name?

In addition, how do I replace the actual IP address of 192.168.2.254 (which
is the IP address of the internal firewall NIC) with the correct external IP
address on our firewall?

~Doug


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sat Nov 20 01:35:11 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:35:11 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exporting subscribers list
In-Reply-To: <419E24D4.7080901@adinet.com.uy>
References: <419E24D4.7080901@adinet.com.uy>
Message-ID: <20041120003511.GJ6278@server.onjapan.net>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 01:52:36PM -0300, Arlequ?n wrote:
> I am using MailMain trough its web-based interface. I don't have access
> to the server where its runs, because it's a third-party hosting company
> which provides me the MailMan service.
> 
> I want to export the subscribers list in a format like this:
> 
> subscriber1 at mydomain.com
> subscriber2 at mydomain.com

mailman-subscribers.py is example program showing how you can
get that sort of list through the web interface.  It is available
from;
  <http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#throughtheweb>

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sat Nov 20 01:51:34 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:51:34 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %(confirmurl)s variable in verify.txt
In-Reply-To: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F4@mercury.dawnsign.com>
References: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F4@mercury.dawnsign.com>
Message-ID: <20041120005134.GK6278@server.onjapan.net>

On Fri, Nov 19, 2004 at 03:39:48PM -0800, Doug Sampson wrote:
> I am new to the Mailman. I've recently configured a new Debian server using
> Mailman (ver 2.0.11) and I have just one problem that I cannot resolve. It
> is the %(confirmurl)s variable found in the verify.txt file. When an email
> is sent out to verify subscription to a list, the email looks like this:

Did Debian backport the %(confirmurl)s substitution to the 2.0.x
version of Mailman?  I thought that didn't appear until the 2.1.x
series.

(IMHO 2.1 has a number of filtering and bounce processing
features that are much smarter than 2.0, and 2.1 is
multi-lingual.  If you are just starting out with Mailman,
2.1.5 is a much better place to start.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From egd at us.ibm.com  Sat Nov 20 01:05:23 2004
From: egd at us.ibm.com (Elizabeth Dunnagan)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:05:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Elizabeth Dunnagan/Raleigh/IBM cannot get to her
	mail.
Message-ID: <OF778ADBEA.05CED8C2-ON87256F52.00007E43-87256F52.00007E44@us.ibm.com>






I will be out of the office starting  11/19/2004 and will not return until
11/29/2004.

I'll get back with you when I return. If you have an emergency and need to
talk to someone before I return, please contact one of the following
people:  Peter Yim (919-543-4797) for push, Kimberly Brantley
(919-486-t507) for  all other search matters and IA,  and Jack Pizzolato
(919-254-7116) for design.  I'll respond to your note as soon as I return.
Thanks.

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 20 01:46:06 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:46:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed
	Mailman 	onFedora Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
Message-ID: <p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:45 AM -0800 2004-11-19, Greg Deputy wrote:

>  I didn't see anything in the INSTALL file about that besides having
>  python installed, and being a linux newbie I didn't realize I needed
>  that in addition to the standard python installation.  Seems like
>  something the configure script would check for, no?

	Maybe for the RedHat RPM version, that is something they should 
do.  For the version we provide, we assume that you have a complete 
installation of a recent version of Python.  If you don't have that, 
you're likely to have problems.

	If you can show us a cross-platform way to check for all the 
appropriate and necessary Python headers that would be required by 
Mailman, and would work regardless of where Python was installed, 
where Mailman was installed, etc..., I'm sure we'd love to see your 
patch.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Nov 20 02:47:21 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:47:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive pipermail question
In-Reply-To: <1100899960.20734.66.camel@madeye>
References: <1100817668.20734.51.camel@madeye>	
	<419DF013.3000801@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>
	<1100899960.20734.66.camel@madeye>
Message-ID: <419EA229.4030203@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Frank Torres wrote:

> Ok, yea but is there a way to automate changing the list archive
> (pipermail) to automatically change the attachments in archive over to
> either public/private when the customer wants to change the archive
> attribute?
> 
Sorry, not now. The archives are generated statically. May be in the day
of version 3 when archive should be generated dynamically from DB.

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Nov 20 03:06:20 2004
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:06:20 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman gets stuck, stops sending messages
In-Reply-To: <20041118074358.21e04cfd@osage.osagesoftware.com>
References: <20041118110049.D8C501E401D@bag.python.org>	<Pine.BSF.4.58.0411180719520.22263@seyyav.pair.com>
	<20041118074358.21e04cfd@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <419EA69C.6090909@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi, sorry for my late response

David Relson wrote:

> I run several low traffic lists (rarely more than 10 messages per day
> and fewer than 250 users per list).  I'd worry about a restart while
> mailman is in operation.  Not knowing the code, there _could_ be
> problems in nuking it unexpectedly.  With my low volume, "unexpected"
> isn't likely to cause damage, but I'd be careful.

Are you also running debian patched mailman? I found a funny code in the 
debian mailman patch 
(http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/m/mailman/mailman_2.1.5-3.diff.gz)

+--- mailman-2.1.4.orig/bin/mailmanctl
++++ mailman-2.1.4/bin/mailmanctl
+@@ -415,6 +414,13 @@
+         # won't be opening any terminal devices, don't do the 
ultra-paranoid
+         # suggestion of doing a second fork after the setsid() call.
+         os.setsid()
++
++        # Be sure to close any open std{in,out,err}
++        devnull = os.open('/dev/null', 0)
++        os.dup2(devnull, 0)
++        os.dup2(devnull, 1)
++        os.dup2(devnull, 2)
++
+         # Instead of cd'ing to root, cd to the Mailman installation home
+         os.chdir(mm_cfg.PREFIX)
+         # Clear our file mode creation umask

I wonder if this is needed at all and it may cause trouble because 
stdout and stderr (1, 2) are set O_RDONLY.

Mailmanctl is a watchdog for qrunners and it is funny if mailmanctl is 
also needed a watchdog. In other installations such as Solaris and 
FreeBSD I admin, such a patch is not needed. Try edit these lines and 
start mailmanctl again and feedback the packagers with devian if it 
works. (or, write this list again if it doesn't work. ;-)

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sat Nov 20 03:45:58 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:45:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem moving 2.0 list to 2.1.5 [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411191410350.32398@seyyav.pair.com>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.58.0411191410350.32398@seyyav.pair.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411192144180.1141@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004, Sean wrote:

>
> Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
> > bin/update converts data files, qfiles, list data, etc. as necessary to
> > bring them from an older format to that of the current Mailman. If you
> > have an installation and you upgrade the Mailman software, the update
> > is run automatically as part of the upgrade. However, if you move an
> > existing list that is in an old format to an already installed newer
> > Mailman version (which is what I thought you did, but maybe not), I
> > think you need to run bin/update to update the list files.
> >
> > If you moved to the new server and then upgraded to 2.1.5, then you
> > don't need to run bin/update separately. If you installed 2.1.5 on the
> > new server and then moved your lists from the old server, I think you
> > do need to run bin/update.
>
> Running bin/update is not necessary if you only use the config.db file to
> move the list from Mailman 2.0.  I've moved lots of lists over from
> Mailman 2.0 to Mailman 2.1 and never ran update.
>
> After creating the list on the 2.1 server I put the old config.db file in
> the list directory, rename the config.pck to config.pck.bak, and then
> access the list via the web interface.  Mailman converts the config.db
> file to a config.pck file.  Of course the web_page_url needs updated to
> the new server.
>
> I've never encountered any problems moving this in this manner.
>
> Sean

Thanks for verifying what I had thought I was observing.  I am now pretty
confident that I can move and upgrade all my lists.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From rodd at ahrenstorff.us  Sat Nov 20 05:31:36 2004
From: rodd at ahrenstorff.us (Rodd Ahrenstorff)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:31:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: PTR record and ISP blocking... 
Message-ID: <20041120043135.B11622082AD@bitsy.ahrenstorff.us>

I've recently had a local ISP block incoming email from our mailing list
server.  I'm trying to figure out why this occurred.it is not the result of
virus or spam activity.  One thing I noticed:  our PTR record is listed as
mail.domain.org, but it doesn't match the actual host name of the server (as
would be identified in the mail header).  I've now checked the PTR records
for several domains controlled by the ISP in question, and found they don't
include a host name in the PTR record at all.  

 

Otherwise, Mailman has been working perfectly for all other recipients.

 

Questions:

Should I have my ISP drop the host name portion in my PTR?

Could the other ISP be attempting to verify my actual server host name
against the existing PTR record before accepting email?

Any other suggestions to keep the ISP's on my good side? (.beyond the
obvious)

 

TIA,

 

Rodd Ahrenstorff

IT Systems Coordinator

Medical Associates of the Black Hills

rodd at mabhllc.org

Office: 605-718-3150

Cell: 605-209-8912 

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 20 06:41:25 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 2004 21:41:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %(confirmurl)s variable in verify.txt
In-Reply-To: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F4@mercury.dawnsign.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041119214125075062071c47@msapiro>

Doug Sampson wrote:

>In addition, how do I replace the actual IP address of 192.168.2.254 (which
>is the IP address of the internal firewall NIC) with the correct external IP
>address on our firewall?

See the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 4.29.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From acc at anthonychavez.org  Sat Nov 20 08:36:53 2004
From: acc at anthonychavez.org (Anthony Chavez)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 00:36:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Apache: allow which dirs?
References: <41509f12.1e2.a3c.939@cnc.bc.ca>
	<m2wtymeumu.fsf@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
	<m2hdpqchjg.fsf_-_@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
Message-ID: <m2brdtkm3u.fsf@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:58:11 -0600 Anthony Chavez <acc at anthonychavez.org> wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:32:25 -0600 Anthony Chavez <acc at anthonychavez.org> wrote:
>
>> However, Apache 2 still 403s when attempting to access
>> /pipermail/listname/, using either hostname....
>
> My question at this point is this: what Mailman directories should
> Apache allow access to?  Section 4 of the INSTALL document says to allow
> access from all for /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin, but in order to access
> my public archives I also must enable it for
> /usr/local/mailman/archives/public.

Never did get a response to this.  Can anyone point me in the right
direction?

Naturally, I'd like to only allow access to those parts of Mailman that
are *absolutely* necessary to be accessed by subscribers.  I'm
interested to know if anyone has already distilled these paths before I
start experimenting.

Thanks!

- -- 
Anthony Chavez                                 http://anthonychavez.org/
mailto:acc at anthonychavez.org         jabber:acc at jabber.anthonychavez.org
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From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sat Nov 20 10:07:52 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:07:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Apache: allow which dirs?
In-Reply-To: <m2brdtkm3u.fsf@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
References: <41509f12.1e2.a3c.939@cnc.bc.ca>
	<m2wtymeumu.fsf@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
	<m2hdpqchjg.fsf_-_@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
	<m2brdtkm3u.fsf@pegasos.anthonychavez.org>
Message-ID: <20041120090752.GB11151@server.onjapan.net>

On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 12:36:53AM -0700, Anthony Chavez wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:58:11 -0600 Anthony Chavez <acc at anthonychavez.org> wrote:
> > My question at this point is this: what Mailman directories should
> > Apache allow access to?  Section 4 of the INSTALL document says to allow
> > access from all for /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin, but in order to access
> > my public archives I also must enable it for
> > /usr/local/mailman/archives/public.

You will need to allow access to the scripts in
/usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin, and the files in the
/usr/local/mailman/archives directory tree.  (You
will also want to allow Apache to follow symbolic
links from /usr/local/mailman/archives/public into
the private directory.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 20 10:44:20 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:44:20 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: PTR record and ISP blocking...
In-Reply-To: <20041120043135.B11622082AD@bitsy.ahrenstorff.us>
References: <20041120043135.B11622082AD@bitsy.ahrenstorff.us>
Message-ID: <p0600202ebdc4c211a560@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:31 PM -0700 2004-11-19, Rodd Ahrenstorff wrote:

>  Should I have my ISP drop the host name portion in my PTR?
>
>  Could the other ISP be attempting to verify my actual server host name
>  against the existing PTR record before accepting email?
>
>  Any other suggestions to keep the ISP's on my good side? (.beyond the
>  obvious)

	Before I can provide any advice, I would need to have more 
details about precisely what it is that your ISP is complaining 
about.  It may be that they're talking a complete load of bollocks, 
and that you should simply go get another ISP.  Or, they may have 
legitimate issues which you need to be concerned about.

	Once we see that, I imagine we might also be able to come up with 
some additional advice.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sat Nov 20 13:11:34 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 07:11:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 9:45 AM -0800 2004-11-19, Greg Deputy wrote:
>
> >  I didn't see anything in the INSTALL file about that besides having
> >  python installed, and being a linux newbie I didn't realize I needed
> >  that in addition to the standard python installation.  Seems like
> >  something the configure script would check for, no?
>
> 	Maybe for the RedHat RPM version, that is something they should
> do.  For the version we provide, we assume that you have a complete
> installation of a recent version of Python.  If you don't have that,
> you're likely to have problems.
>
> 	If you can show us a cross-platform way to check for all the
> appropriate and necessary Python headers that would be required by
> Mailman, and would work regardless of where Python was installed,
> where Mailman was installed, etc..., I'm sure we'd love to see your
> patch.

The Red Hat RPM versions have the dependencies built into the package.
That's what RPM is for.

$ rpm -qp --requires mailman-2.1.5-26.src.rpm
rpmlib(VersionedDependencies) <= 3.0.3-1
python-devel >= 2.2
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1

$ rpm -qp --requires mailman-2.1.5-26.i386.rpm
/bin/sh
/bin/sh
/bin/sh
/bin/sh
/bin/sh
/sbin/chkconfig
/sbin/service
/usr/bin/env
/usr/bin/python
config(mailman) = 3:2.1.5-26
libc.so.6
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.0)
libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.1.3)
mktemp
python >= 2.2
rpmlib(CompressedFileNames) <= 3.0.4-1
rpmlib(PayloadFilesHavePrefix) <= 4.0-1
shadow-utils
vixie-cron >= 4.1-9
webserver

So you can't install the precompiled RPM without Python 2.2 runtime
support and you can't install the source RPM for rebuilding without the
python-devel 2.2 package.  If you have enough Python support to build the
RPM, you should have enough to build Mailman from scratch.

Note that in Red Hat distros, many development tools are split into
<pkgname> for runtime support and <pkgname>-devel for developers.  Greg
Deputy probably doesn't have the python-devel RPM, which he needs to build
Mailman, although he has the python RPM, which is enough to run Mailman.

But I'm not quite clear on why one would want to build Mailman from
scratch, when there are perfectly good Mailman RPMs already available for
Fedora Core.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From robin at reportlab.com  Sat Nov 20 15:03:13 2004
From: robin at reportlab.com (Robin Becker)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 14:03:13 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic non-members rejection notice
Message-ID: <419F4EA1.7090803@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>

I see this question asked, but haven't seen a reply. Is there any way to 
  change the response message that non-members receive when rejection is 
the chosen action?

I managed to modify my admin gui to allow adding an attribute 
nonmember_rejection_notice (had to fake a getattr out as well), but I 
can't seem to make this message appear in rejections. In fact the code 
in Moderate.py doesn't seem to get used during rejections. I cchecked 
and it seems as though the .pck does contain the new attribute.

What am I missing/doing wrong?
-- 
Robin Becker


From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 20 17:16:27 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:16:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
	qmail/vpopmail
Message-ID: <004201c4cf1c$49e14330$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

Hi there,

I've been trying now for almost 3 days and I am about to give up :-(

I tried to install using those tutorials

http://nav.bandersnatch.org/clues/qmail-vpopmail-mailman.html and
http://www.nerdworks.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=12

The second link doesn't seem to work today, so I will paste the tutorial at
the end of this mail as I kept a local copy.

Everything seems to run fine.  I am able to create lists, I can sign lists,
etc.

What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is any mail
to mailman.  Let's say I have a list mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an
email to this address as a list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail
queue.

So I am not even sure if those mails ever reach mailman in order to process
the mails?

Any help is highly appreciated.

Best regards,

Alex


PS:  Below you'll find the tutorial mentioned above.. Whatsoever I used
mailman-2-1.5 not 2.1.3!

How to set up the Mailman mailing list manager to work with the Qmail MTA

http://www.nerdworks.org/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=12

How to set up the Mailman (http://mailman.sourceforge.net/) mailing list
manager (MLM) to work with the Qmail (http://cr.yp.to/) MTA using
vpopmail to handle virtual users,
and Apache with dynamically configured mass virtual hosting.

The default install-prefix for Mailman is /usr/local.
Personally I really don't like to put things that grows in to /usr.
You can of course split the installation by using ./configure options.
In this HOWTO I change the install-prefix to /var.

This document assumes you have already set up a
DNS "A" record for lists.your.domain.
It also assumes a fairly good knowledge about using the shell.


1.

Mailman requires the mailman user, the mailman group and
the mailman install-directory to be present.
The following commands will accomplish this.

groupadd mailman
useradd -d /var/mailman -g mailman mailman

cd /var
mkdir mailman
chown mailman:mailman mailman
chmod a+rx mailman
chmod g+ws mailman


2.

With the user, group and directory in place,
we can start working with the sourcecode for Mailman.

Download the source from http://mailman.sourceforge.net/
I downloaded it to /usr/src.
Untar and enter the Mailman source directory.


cd /usr/src
tar zxvpf mailman-2.1.3.tgz
cd mailman-2.1.3

Read the documentation, but do not take the Qmail part of it
too seriously, some of it is dated, and it is a true mess
of solutions for different environments.

The mailman user is not a virtual user, so mail to Mailman
should be delivered as mailman.
The cgi-gid is the user that Apache run as.
Check in your httpd.conf for the right user. 

./configure --prefix=/var/mailman 
--with-mail-gid=mailman 
--with-cgi-gid=nobody 
--with-cgi-ext=.cgi

make install
cd /var/mailman
./bin/check_perms
./bin/check_perms -f
./bin/check_perms

After running check_perms with the -f switch,
it should return no problems.

Edit /var/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py
At he top of the file set:

MailmanHome = "/var/mailman";
MailmanVar = "/var/mailman";
MailmanOwner = "postmaster";

in the Qrunner defaults section

DEFAULT_EMAiL_HOST = 'lists.your.domain'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'lists.your.domain'


3.

This howto assumes you are running Apache with
dynamically configured mass virtual hosting.
If you are not using dynamically configured mass virtual hosting,
just skip this section.
Read more about dynamically configured mass virtual hosting at:
http://httpd.apache.org/docs/vhosts/mass.html
It is areally nice feature.

mkdir -p /path/to/domain/lists/htdocs


4.

Configuring Apache for Mailman.

cp /var/mailman/icons/* /var/www/icons

edit /etc/apache/httpd.conf
Add the following inside the <IfModule mod_alias.c> section:

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /var/mailman/cgi-bin

<Directory "/var/mailman/cgi-bin/">
Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
AllowOverride None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ /var/mailman/archives/public

<Directory "/var/mailman/archives/public/">
Options Indexes FollowSymLinks MultiViews
AllowOverride None
Order allow,deny
Allow from all
</Directory>


5.

Set up the cronjobs neccesary for Mailman.
The needed cronjobs are located in /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in
Set them up as the user mailman with this command.

crontab /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in -u mailman


6.

Configuring qmail to handle mail for lists.your.domain

Make mailman handle all mail to lists.your.domain by inserting
the following line to /var/qmail/control/virtualdomains.

lists.your.domain:mailman

Put the following line in /var/qmail/control/rcpthosts.

lists.your.domain

Copy /usr/src/mailman-2.1.3/contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py to 
/var/mailman/

Edit /var/mailman/.qmail-default and add the following line.

|/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py


7.

Now we can create the Mailman site-wide list.
This is the list that password reminders and so on appears to
come from. 

cd /var/mailman
./bin/newlist mailman
passwd

A fairly good default configuration for the site-wide list
is found in /var/mailman/data/sitelist.cfg.
Configure it to your taste.

vi data/sitelist.cfg
Make your changes.

Run the following command to set the defaults.

./bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman

Use a webbrowser and go to
http://your server/mailman/admin.cgi/admin
configure to taste, but don't make this list public.
subscribe youself to the list.

More information for list owners at:
http://www.imsa.edu/~ckolar/mailman/


8.

making it all run.
start the Mailman grunner daemon with this command.

/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

Make sure maimanctl starts at every bootup.
In Slackware, add the above command to /etc/rc.d/rc.local

restart qmail


9.

For dynamically configured mass virtual hosting,
in /path/to/domain/lists/htdocs, make an index.html document
redirecting to http://lists.your.domain/mailman/listinfo.cgi

10.

Set up a testlist, configure it, and subscribe to it
from more than one account and test it.
Remove the testlist when you are satisfied.


11.

Comments and suggestions are very welcome


From mailman at primatesynthesis.com  Sat Nov 20 17:58:23 2004
From: mailman at primatesynthesis.com (Mark)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 11:58:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting a list for no daily reminders?
Message-ID: <p06002000bdc521c36234@[192.168.123.146]>


I am running a list set to immediately send administrative requests
(admin_immed_notify  set to yes), but I am getting daily notices as
well.  I don't want to receive daily notices.  The immediate notices
are sufficient.  Nor do I see the logic in filling my inbox with
daily notices when I'm not around or haven't had a chance to process 
the immediate notices that are already sitting there.

Is there any way to change this??

THANX!!



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 20 18:02:13 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:02:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <004201c4cf1c$49e14330$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <PC172220041120090213079632211749@msapiro>

Alexander Schwethelm wrote:
>
>What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is any mail
>to mailman.  Let's say I have a list mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an
>email to this address as a list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail
>queue.
>
>So I am not even sure if those mails ever reach mailman in order to process
>the mails?

Have you read the README.QMAIL file that comes with the Mailman source
distribution?

Also see
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.14.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Sat Nov 20 18:23:29 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:23:29 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?
Message-ID: <E4F4767D-3B18-11D9-A8A0-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>

Is there ANYWHERE a novice can get hand-holding step-by-step tutorials 
on all this stuff?

Python, scripts, configs, mailman, MTAs, what the hell does it all mean?

Is there ANYWHERE this is in plain English - where it isn't written as 
if to be read by people with years of programming experience.  I need: 
"you do this... and then you do that... and this is what should 
happen..." etc!

Sorry.

PeteBell. UK



From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 20 18:23:34 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 18:23:34 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041120090213079632211749@msapiro>
Message-ID: <004801c4cf25$aa3bc580$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

Hi Mark, hi List,

Yes I've read both sources.  What I am wondering about is the issue that
mails stay in the qmailqueue.  I really believe that until now MailMan
didn't have the chance to do anything wrong.

I am using the qmail-to-mailman.py file provided by MailMan.  Reading e.g.
Article 3.14 from the FAQ talks about /etc/aliases, but I don't use this
file at all.  It seems to me that all the documentation regarding qmail AND
vpopmail is totally mixed up, with different solutions for different
environments.

Does any of this help, to direct me somewhere?

Thanks and best regards,

Alex



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Gesendet: Samstag, 20. November 2004 18:02
An: DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm; mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
withqmail/vpopmail


Alexander Schwethelm wrote:
>
>What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is any 
>mail to mailman.  Let's say I have a list mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and 
>I send an email to this address as a list user, the mail gets stuck in 
>the qmail queue.
>
>So I am not even sure if those mails ever reach mailman in order to 
>process the mails?

Have you read the README.QMAIL file that comes with the Mailman source
distribution?

Also see
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Article 3.14.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan






From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 20 18:30:52 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:30:52 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting a list for no daily reminders?
In-Reply-To: <p06002000bdc521c36234@[192.168.123.146]>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>

Mark wrote:
>
>I am running a list set to immediately send administrative requests
>(admin_immed_notify  set to yes), but I am getting daily notices as
>well.  I don't want to receive daily notices.  The immediate notices
>are sufficient.  Nor do I see the logic in filling my inbox with
>daily notices when I'm not around or haven't had a chance to process 
>the immediate notices that are already sitting there.
>
>Is there any way to change this??

You could delete the checkdbs entry from crontab, but this would affect
all lists and also would have the side effect of never clearing stale
entries from hold_and_cmd_autoresponses[] (I don't think this is
serious because I don't think there is ever more than one entry per
user - stale entries get "reused").

The only other way and the only way to do it per list is to change the
code in checkdbs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From greg at blastzone.com  Sat Nov 20 19:08:10 2004
From: greg at blastzone.com (greg deputy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:08:10 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <029e01c4cf2b$e5c91340$14140a0a@greg>


> 
> So you can't install the precompiled RPM without Python 2.2 
> runtime support and you can't install the source RPM for 
> rebuilding without the python-devel 2.2 package.  If you have 
> enough Python support to build the RPM, you should have 
> enough to build Mailman from scratch.
> 
> Note that in Red Hat distros, many development tools are 
> split into <pkgname> for runtime support and <pkgname>-devel 
> for developers.  Greg Deputy probably doesn't have the 
> python-devel RPM, which he needs to build Mailman, although 
> he has the python RPM, which is enough to run Mailman.
> 
> But I'm not quite clear on why one would want to build 
> Mailman from scratch, when there are perfectly good Mailman 
> RPMs already available for Fedora Core.

Yup, I was missing the python-devel package.  Dropped that in and
mailman is now built and happy.

I'm relatively new to linux, and I've found some things are easier
installed as a package and others from source.  This is just my personal
perception, of course.  I generally try to install from source first, I
feel like I get more control over how it ends up working that way.  

Thanks for the help.



From data2 at cablespeed.com  Sat Nov 20 19:10:58 2004
From: data2 at cablespeed.com (Jon Krause)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:10:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?
References: <E4F4767D-3B18-11D9-A8A0-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <015a01c4cf2c$4949a3d0$05dc3818@mdm2205>

Pete,
   There may be a web-based tutoral out there, but I found the README and
INSTALL text files from the installation the best instruction set available.
Some software has very tech oriented instructions, assuming you are an
expirienced user, Mailman's instructions are some of the best I have used in
open source.

    If you are fairly comfortable in command line, and can get Mailman
downloaded and untarred, you will find the install very straight-forward.

Some tips:
Take your time.
Have both the README and INSTALL files printed or available for reference.
Have a browser open to Google for answers for things you may not understand.
Use this list when stumped.

Best of luck,
Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PeteBell" <macbantam at ntlworld.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?


: Is there ANYWHERE a novice can get hand-holding step-by-step tutorials
: on all this stuff?
:
: Python, scripts, configs, mailman, MTAs, what the hell does it all mean?
:
: Is there ANYWHERE this is in plain English - where it isn't written as
: if to be read by people with years of programming experience.  I need:
: "you do this... and then you do that... and this is what should
: happen..." etc!
:
: Sorry.
:
: PeteBell. UK
:
: ------------------------------------------------------
: Mailman-Users mailing list
: Mailman-Users at python.org
: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
: Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
: Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sat Nov 20 19:35:07 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:35:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <D07E635F8F59390AE76886A7@[10.0.0.4]>

--On Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:11 AM -0500 Matthew Saltzman 
<mjs at ces.clemson.edu> wrote:

> you can't install the source RPM for rebuilding without the
> python-devel 2.2 package.

Quibble: You can't *build* the source RPM without the devel package. You 
can install it, which basically amounts to unpacking it into spec file, 
tarball, and patches.




From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sat Nov 20 19:42:13 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 10:42:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <029e01c4cf2b$e5c91340$14140a0a@greg>
References: <029e01c4cf2b$e5c91340$14140a0a@greg>
Message-ID: <192DFFF83D82C777079C8A3C@[10.0.0.4]>

--On Saturday, November 20, 2004 10:08 AM -0800 greg deputy 
<greg at blastzone.com> wrote:

> I'm relatively new to linux, and I've found some things are easier
> installed as a package and others from source.  This is just my personal
> perception, of course.  I generally try to install from source first, I
> feel like I get more control over how it ends up working that way.

Building from source and installing from RPM are not mutually exclusive. If 
you want to maintain the integrity of your packaging database, you should 
endeavor to locate RPM's, either binary from the distro vendor or source 
from a third party.

You get just as much "control" installing from a source RPM as you would 
from a source tarball. Usually that means changing the configure options, 
and you can easily do that by unpacking the source RPM and editing the 
configure command in the spec file before rebuilding it.

If you use any kind of automatic update system (like yum or up2date) to 
keep your system secure, manual installation of packages will interfere 
with that and will likely eventually cause things to break because the 
packaging system isn't aware of all the packages on the system.

Note that this applies not just to RPM but to any package database system. 
It's there to help you, but you have to keep it informed about what you've 
installed if it's to make correct decisions.


From rfk at istop.com  Sat Nov 20 21:17:37 2004
From: rfk at istop.com (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:17:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?
In-Reply-To: <015a01c4cf2c$4949a3d0$05dc3818@mdm2205>
Message-ID: <000001c4cf3d$fa6e16d0$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>

Just to add to Jon's comments. I used two sets of Mailman install
manuals. Combined, the instructions were clearer. Another tip is to get
the prerequisites going before installing Mailman. Get your mail system
working and make sure Python and the C compiler are installed. Pay
attention to the ./configure section, this is important to get right.
Finally, it is not as hard as it looks :).

Best,
Robert
Toronto

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces at python.org] On Behalf Of Jon Krause
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 1:11 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org; PeteBell
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?


Pete,
   There may be a web-based tutoral out there, but I found the README
and INSTALL text files from the installation the best instruction set
available. Some software has very tech oriented instructions, assuming
you are an expirienced user, Mailman's instructions are some of the best
I have used in open source.

    If you are fairly comfortable in command line, and can get Mailman
downloaded and untarred, you will find the install very
straight-forward.

Some tips:
Take your time.
Have both the README and INSTALL files printed or available for
reference. Have a browser open to Google for answers for things you may
not understand. Use this list when stumped.

Best of luck,
Jon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "PeteBell" <macbantam at ntlworld.com>
To: <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 12:23 PM
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?


: Is there ANYWHERE a novice can get hand-holding step-by-step tutorials
: on all this stuff?
:
: Python, scripts, configs, mailman, MTAs, what the hell does it all
mean?
:
: Is there ANYWHERE this is in plain English - where it isn't written as
: if to be read by people with years of programming experience.  I need:
: "you do this... and then you do that... and this is what should
: happen..." etc!
:
: Sorry.
:
: PeteBell. UK
:
: ------------------------------------------------------
: Mailman-Users mailing list
: Mailman-Users at python.org
: http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
: Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
: Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sat Nov 20 21:57:10 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 15:57:10 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <029e01c4cf2b$e5c91340$14140a0a@greg>
References: <029e01c4cf2b$e5c91340$14140a0a@greg>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411201547470.3272@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, greg deputy wrote:

>
> >
> > So you can't install the precompiled RPM without Python 2.2
> > runtime support and you can't install the source RPM for
> > rebuilding without the python-devel 2.2 package.  If you have
> > enough Python support to build the RPM, you should have
> > enough to build Mailman from scratch.
> >
> > Note that in Red Hat distros, many development tools are
> > split into <pkgname> for runtime support and <pkgname>-devel
> > for developers.  Greg Deputy probably doesn't have the
> > python-devel RPM, which he needs to build Mailman, although
> > he has the python RPM, which is enough to run Mailman.
> >
> > But I'm not quite clear on why one would want to build
> > Mailman from scratch, when there are perfectly good Mailman
> > RPMs already available for Fedora Core.
>
> Yup, I was missing the python-devel package.  Dropped that in and
> mailman is now built and happy.
>
> I'm relatively new to linux, and I've found some things are easier
> installed as a package and others from source.  This is just my personal
> perception, of course.  I generally try to install from source first, I
> feel like I get more control over how it ends up working that way.

Some people with many years of experience maintain that attitude too, and
it's OK.  But I've come to believe that for most things, RPMs (or working
with whatever packaging system the distro uses--.debs for Debian, etc) are
the way to go.  For one thing, all the Red Hat/Fedora automated update
services rely on it.  It records where files are installed so they can be
located and/or removed when necessary, and it manages dependency issues
such as the one you just ran into.  Up2date, Yum, and Synaptic package
amnagers even find and install missing dependencies automatically.

You can always customize stuff post-install if it's not a feature that
needs to be compiled in, and you can always grab the SRPM and rebuild if
necessary while reaping all the other benefits.

>
> Thanks for the help.

You're welcome.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Nov 20 22:42:15 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:42:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help: PTR record and ISP blocking... 
In-Reply-To: <20041120043135.B11622082AD@bitsy.ahrenstorff.us>
Message-ID: <BDC4FA37.187A1%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/19/2004 20:31, "Rodd Ahrenstorff" <rodd at ahrenstorff.us> wrote:

> Could the other ISP be attempting to verify my actual server host name
> against the existing PTR record before accepting email?

Yes, they could be.

Forward and reverse lookups really should match.  (Whether to reject based
on a non-match is a policy issue over which there are endless arguments
which don't matter to you...what matters is the end result...a block.)

The MTA we use here doesn't log the sending host's name unless, among all
the names it gets back from a reverse lookup there is at least one name
which contains among its list of IP addresses a match to the actual IP
address used.  (That's the logging...accept or reject is a matter of policy
which is easily configured in that MTA thanks to a variable it makes
available.  We accept, but allow individual users to block mail from servers
with no reverse name at all.)

  --John


From jwblist at olympus.net  Sat Nov 20 22:47:51 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 13:47:51 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting a list for no daily reminders?
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDC4FB87.187AA%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/20/2004 9:30, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Mark wrote:
>> 
>> I am running a list set to immediately send administrative requests
>> (admin_immed_notify  set to yes), but I am getting daily notices as
>> well.  I don't want to receive daily notices.  The immediate notices
>> are sufficient.  Nor do I see the logic in filling my inbox with
>> daily notices when I'm not around or haven't had a chance to process
>> the immediate notices that are already sitting there.
>> 
>> Is there any way to change this??
> 
> You could delete the checkdbs entry from crontab, but this would affect
> all lists and also would have the side effect of never clearing stale
> entries from hold_and_cmd_autoresponses[] (I don't think this is
> serious because I don't think there is ever more than one entry per
> user - stale entries get "reused").
> 
> The only other way and the only way to do it per list is to change the
> code in checkdbs.

The easy thing to do would be to use your mail program's filters to get rid
of the daily notices for you.  You appear to be using Eudora 6, so the
filters are quite capable of doing that.

  --John


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sat Nov 20 11:29:42 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:29:42 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second attempt at posting
Message-ID: <p06002002bdc4cc6180cc@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi there,
	I tried earlier to post to this list but was bounced for some 
unknown reason.
	In installing on Mac OSX 10.3.6, I have encountered the 
following errors:

[server:~mailman/bin] root# ./check_perms -f
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./check_perms", line 46, in ?
     from Mailman import mm_cfg
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in ?
     add_virtualhost (heard.com.au, heard.com.au)
NameError: name 'heard' is not defined

	The line which begins add_virtualhost is exactly as it 
appears in mm_cfg.py
	Could anyone point me in the right direction to try to get 
this installation up & running please.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sat Nov 20 22:35:32 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:35:32 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation problems
Message-ID: <p06002003bdc56876f783@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi all,
	I have been trying to get Mailman installed & have been 
attempting to post to the users list without success.
	I have an error installing Mailman after running check_perms 
-f which is as follows:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./check_perms", line 46, in ?
     from Mailman import mm_cfg
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in ?
     add_virtualhost (heard.com.au, heard.com.au)
NameError: name 'heard' is not defined

	I have looked in the FAQ, but nothing relates specifically to 
that error - I see entries relating to globalname, but not what I 
have listed.
	My system details are as follows:

Mac OSX 10.3.6 (client version)
Python 2.3
Mailman 2.1.5
Postfix 2.1.5
Apache 2.0.50

	Can anyone point me in the right directiopn please.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Nov 21 01:58:34 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:58:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting a list for no daily reminders?
In-Reply-To: <p06002000bdc521c36234@[192.168.123.146]>
References: <p06002000bdc521c36234@[192.168.123.146]>
Message-ID: <p06002035bdc59884e8c0@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:58 AM -0500 2004-11-20, Mark wrote:

>  I am running a list set to immediately send administrative requests
>  (admin_immed_notify  set to yes), but I am getting daily notices as
>  well.  I don't want to receive daily notices.  The immediate notices
>  are sufficient.

	Hmm.  Good question.  I know you can turn off the immediate 
notices and arrange to have only the daily ones, but I don't know if 
you can go the other way around.

	Please let me know what you find out.  Thanks!

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Nov 21 01:57:16 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 01:57:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	with 	qmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <004201c4cf1c$49e14330$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
References: <004201c4cf1c$49e14330$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <p06002034bdc59823d204@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:16 PM +0100 2004-11-20, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>  What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is any mail
>  to mailman.  Let's say I have a list mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an
>  email to this address as a list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail
>  queue.

	This sounds like a problem with the aliases definitions on the MTA.

	Personally, I had never heard of either of the URLs you 
mentioned.  With regards to getting Mailman to work with qmail, the 
best reference I know of is found within the Mailman tarball, in the 
README.QMAIL file.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 21 02:45:36 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:45:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second attempt at posting
In-Reply-To: <p06002002bdc4cc6180cc@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC172220041120174536045332211609@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote:

>	I tried earlier to post to this list but was bounced for some 
>unknown reason.

This post and a subsequent one were just approved by the moderator and
delivered to the list. So far there's no sign of the earlier one.
These later two may have been held because you are not a list member
if that is in fact the case.

>	In installing on Mac OSX 10.3.6, I have encountered the 
>following errors:
>
>[server:~mailman/bin] root# ./check_perms -f
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./check_perms", line 46, in ?
>     from Mailman import mm_cfg
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in ?
>     add_virtualhost (heard.com.au, heard.com.au)
>NameError: name 'heard' is not defined
>
>	The line which begins add_virtualhost is exactly as it 
>appears in mm_cfg.py
>	Could anyone point me in the right direction to try to get 
>this installation up & running please.

It should be

     add_virtualhost ('heard.com.au', 'heard.com.au')

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sun Nov 21 03:45:50 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 21:45:50 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <D07E635F8F59390AE76886A7@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
	<D07E635F8F59390AE76886A7@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411202144230.4319@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Kenneth Porter wrote:

> --On Saturday, November 20, 2004 7:11 AM -0500 Matthew Saltzman
> <mjs at ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
>
> > you can't install the source RPM for rebuilding without the
> > python-devel 2.2 package.
>
> Quibble: You can't *build* the source RPM without the devel package. You
> can install it, which basically amounts to unpacking it into spec file,
> tarball, and patches.

Haven't actually tried it, but won't rpm complain about the missing
python-devel package when you attempt to install the SRPM?  Seems like
that would be what dependencies in SRPMs are for.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sun Nov 21 04:01:21 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 19:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411202144230.4319@access.ces.clemson.edu>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
	<D07E635F8F59390AE76886A7@[10.0.0.4]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411202144230.4319@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <A322E9CC78D7175420A4E1E2@[10.0.0.4]>

--On Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:45 PM -0500 Matthew Saltzman 
<mjs at ces.clemson.edu> wrote:

> Haven't actually tried it, but won't rpm complain about the missing
> python-devel package when you attempt to install the SRPM?  Seems like
> that would be what dependencies in SRPMs are for.

No, build prerequisites are checked at build time, not unpacking time. Note 
that you can do both with one command, "rpmbuild --rebuild xxx.src.rpm". 
But if you just want to unpack it, use "rpm -i xxx.src.rpm" and it won't 
check the build prereqs. You can then unpack the tarball or inspect the 
spec file and patches and other support files included in the SRPM.




From trb at sgi.com  Sun Nov 21 05:12:28 2004
From: trb at sgi.com (Tom Barton)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:12:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email to list rejected
Message-ID: <CD900AB4AF16D61180230004ACE85490050E7D38@mtv-atc-606e--n.corp.sgi.com>

For some reason email to my list is being rejected.  I've set up a list with
my email address as the only member.  When I send email to the list I get:

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
<msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>
    (reason: 550 <msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>: Recipient address rejected: User
unknown in local recipient table)


I'm using:

foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep mailman
mailman-2.1.4-83.4
foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep postfix
postfix-2.1.1-1.4
foo:trb $ uname -a
Linux foo 2.6.5-7.104-default #1 Wed Jul 28 16:42:13 UTC 2004 i686 i686 i386
GNU/Linux

Mailman and postfix were installed via rpm.

There are no entries in /etc/postfix/access.  Should there be?  

Where/how is access to sending email to a list managed?  How particular is
it in regard to address matching?  In other words, does every part of an
address have to match the address in the list, or does it just look at the
user id?

The machine is accepting email from the same address when it is sent to a
user on the machine, but it is rejected when sent to a Mailman list.

I thought this would be in the FAQ, but I can't find it.  If you can help me
figure this out, I'll add it.

--
Tom Barton               email: trb at sgi.com      _
SGI Systems Engineer                           _| ~~.
MCSE, RHCE               phone: 972-380-1590   \,  _}
Dallas                   fax: 972-692-5194       \(



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 21 05:59:41 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 2004 20:59:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email to list rejected
In-Reply-To: <CD900AB4AF16D61180230004ACE85490050E7D38@mtv-atc-606e--n.corp.sgi.com>
Message-ID: <PC172220041120205941098432211821@msapiro>

Tom Barton wrote:

>For some reason email to my list is being rejected.  I've set up a list with
>my email address as the only member.  When I send email to the list I get:
>
>   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
><msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>
>    (reason: 550 <msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>: Recipient address rejected: User
>unknown in local recipient table)


This looks like an alias problem.


>I'm using:
>
>foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep mailman
>mailman-2.1.4-83.4
>foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep postfix
>postfix-2.1.1-1.4
>foo:trb $ uname -a
>Linux foo 2.6.5-7.104-default #1 Wed Jul 28 16:42:13 UTC 2004 i686 i686 i386
>GNU/Linux
>
>Mailman and postfix were installed via rpm.
>
>There are no entries in /etc/postfix/access.  Should there be?  
>
>Where/how is access to sending email to a list managed?  How particular is
>it in regard to address matching?  In other words, does every part of an
>address have to match the address in the list, or does it just look at the
>user id?


It is done through aliases that match the "user id" and pipe the
message to mailman.


>The machine is accepting email from the same address when it is sent to a
>user on the machine, but it is rejected when sent to a Mailman list.
>
>I thought this would be in the FAQ, but I can't find it.  If you can help me
>figure this out, I'll add it.


>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Did you look at FAQ articles 1.7 and 3.14? They both mention aliases.

Have you read the INSTALL and README.POSTFIX documents that are in the
standard Mailman distribution? Are these or equivalents in your
mailman rpm? If you don't have them, you can find them at
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nfiedler at bluemarsh.com  Sun Nov 21 09:11:54 2004
From: nfiedler at bluemarsh.com (Nathan Fiedler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 00:11:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
Message-ID: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>

Let me start with a big "Thank You" to the Mailman authors for their
great work on this fine list management software. I have been using
Mailman for over four years and have had very few problems.

Recently I installed Fedora Core 3 and I am in the process of setting up
the system to once again host several Mailman lists. However, I have run
into a problem that I am unable to solve. It is the typical "403
Forbidden" problem often seen by newbies when attempting to view the
archives of a list.

I have searched the mailman-users archives. I have searched Google
Groups. I have read the INSTALL.REDHAT and UPGRADING files included in
the mailman rpm, as well as several other pertinent files. I have found
nothing that can explain why I continue to see the 403 Forbidden error.

First off, the lists have been imported from backup, so there is the
possibility something went wrong in that. However, check_perms reports
no problems. And "check_db -a" also reports nothing. I also ran the
'update' command successfully. Sending mail to the lists appears to be
working, as does the administrative interface. The only problem really
is accessing the archives.

Now before you tell me that I need to set up the Apache configuration,
let me say that the mailman rpm in FC3 includes a .conf file already. I
have pasted it in below for your reference. And I suppose you will ask
"What about the permissions on the files/directories?" Ah, I'm one step
ahead of you there. See the detailed output below the .conf file.

So the question becomes, what is preventing the browser from accessing
the archives?

nathan

P.S. You can see the problem for yourself at
http://www.bluemarsh.com/mailman/listinfo

------------------------------------------------------------
#
#  httpd configuration settings for use with mailman.
#

ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/
<Directory /usr/lib/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    AllowOverride None
    Options ExecCGI
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/
<Directory /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/>
    Options Indexes MultiViews FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

# Uncomment the following line, replacing www.example.com with your
server's
# name, to redirect queries to /mailman to the listinfo page
(recommended).

RedirectMatch ^/mailman[/]*$ http://www.bluemarsh.com/mailman/listinfo
------------------------------------------------------------

Apache user can read the files:
------------------------------------------------------------
# echo "head /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/jswat-
announce/index.html" | su -fm apache
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
  <HEAD>
     <title>The jswat-announce Archives</title>
     <META NAME="robots" CONTENT="noindex,follow">
     <META http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=us-
ascii">
  </HEAD>
  <BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff">
     <h1>The jswat-announce Archives </h1>
     <p>

[To double-check, apache cannot read root's files.]
# echo "head /root/.bashrc" | su -fm apache
head: cannot open `/root/.bashrc' for reading: Permission denied
------------------------------------------------------------

Directory permissions in detail:
------------------------------------------------------------
# ls -l /
drwxr-xr-x   22 root root  4096 Nov 16 00:05 var

# ls -l /var
drwxr-xr-x  23 root    root     4096 Nov 19 16:09 lib

# ls -l /var/lib
drwxrwsr-x   6 root   mailman 4096 Nov 20 23:00 mailman

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman
drwxrwsr-x  4 mailman mailman 4096 Jun 16  2003 archives

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives
drwxrws--x  13 mailman mailman 4096 Nov 20 22:33 private
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman 4096 Nov 20 22:33 public

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives/private
drwxrwsr-x   9 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 17 03:27 jswat-announce
drwxrwsr-x   2 mailman mailman 4096 Feb 24  2004 jswat-announce.mbox

# ls -l /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/jswat-announce
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Apr 29  2004 2004-April
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  805 Apr 29  2004 2004-April.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  544 Apr 30  2004 2004-April.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Aug 17 00:05 2004-August
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  699 Aug 17 00:05 2004-August.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  512 Aug 17 03:27 2004-August.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Feb 27  2004 2004-February
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 1674 Feb 27  2004 2004-February.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  935 Feb 28  2004 2004-February.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 May  9  2004 2004-May
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  435 May  9  2004 2004-May.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  361 May 10  2004 2004-May.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 16 17:28 2004-October
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  810 Oct 16 17:28 2004-October.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  549 Oct 17 03:27 2004-October.txt.gz
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman mailman 4096 Sep 22 00:17 2004-September
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 1455 Sep 22 00:17 2004-September.txt
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman  827 Sep 22 03:27 2004-September.txt.gz
drwxrws---  2 mailman mailman 4096 Oct 16 17:28 database
-rw-rw-r--  1 mailman mailman 3229 Oct 16 17:28 index.html
-rw-rw----  1 mailman mailman  915 Oct 16 17:28 pipermail.pck
------------------------------------------------------------




From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sun Nov 21 09:33:21 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:21 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic non-members rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <419F4EA1.7090803@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
References: <419F4EA1.7090803@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <20041121083321.GD31351@server.onjapan.net>

On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 02:03:13PM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
> I see this question asked, but haven't seen a reply. Is there any way to 
>  change the response message that non-members receive when rejection is 
> the chosen action?

They receive the message in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py's
do_reject() (or the translation of that message from the
correct language catalog).

> I managed to modify my admin gui to allow adding an attribute 
> nonmember_rejection_notice (had to fake a getattr out as well), but I 
> can't seem to make this message appear in rejections. In fact the code 
> in Moderate.py doesn't seem to get used during rejections. I cchecked 
> and it seems as though the .pck does contain the new attribute.

You should add (or replace) the code in do_reject().  (If
changing that text string, remember to restart Mailman after
editing.)


-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From ml at ancalagon.inka.de  Sun Nov 21 10:06:47 2004
From: ml at ancalagon.inka.de (Thomas Hochstein)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:06:47 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
Message-ID: <alm.20041121100647.24176@gwaihir.akallabeth.de>

Nathan Fiedler wrote:

> Now before you tell me that I need to set up the Apache configuration,
> let me say that the mailman rpm in FC3 includes a .conf file already. I
> have pasted it in below for your reference. 

You did reload/restart Apache, of course?

-thh



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sun Nov 21 03:35:00 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:35:00 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Second attempt at posting
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041120174536045332211609@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041120174536045332211609@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002000bdc5af208ed1@[203.53.37.182]>

>Terry Allen wrote:
>
>>	I tried earlier to post to this list but was bounced for some
>>unknown reason.
>
>This post and a subsequent one were just approved by the moderator and
>delivered to the list. So far there's no sign of the earlier one.
>These later two may have been held because you are not a list member
>if that is in fact the case.
>
>>	In installing on Mac OSX 10.3.6, I have encountered the
>>following errors:
>>
>>[server:~mailman/bin] root# ./check_perms -f
>>Traceback (most recent call last):
>>    File "./check_perms", line 46, in ?
>>      from Mailman import mm_cfg
>>    File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py", line 45, in ?
>>      add_virtualhost (heard.com.au, heard.com.au)
>>NameError: name 'heard' is not defined
>>
>>	The line which begins add_virtualhost is exactly as it
>>appears in mm_cfg.py
>>	Could anyone point me in the right direction to try to get
>>this installation up & running please.
>
>It should be
>
>      add_virtualhost ('heard.com.au', 'heard.com.au')
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hi again,
	Many thanks for that - after editing that, then running 
check_perms -f, it came up with no errors, so I'll be heading to see 
what happens next.

-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From gaf at blu.org  Sun Nov 21 15:34:54 2004
From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:34:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notifications.
Message-ID: <20041121093454.319a067e@gaf.blu.org>

We run about 30 different listservs on the BLU server using Mailman
2.1.4. We recently upgraded from an ancient release of mailman. Some of
our listserv admins are complaining about "Uncaught bounce notification"
messages. It appears that most of these result from delayed email
notification to hotmail or msn subscribers. Personally, I just ignore
them. While I have not tried this, if we disable "Should Mailman send
you, the list owner, any bounce messages that failed to be detected by
the bounce processor?", would that eliminate those messages. But, by
disabling this, would the list owners lose some other important
notification.

-- 
Jerry Feldman <gaf at blu.org>
Boston Linux and Unix user group
http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9
PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9


From info at digital4u.de  Sun Nov 21 15:43:29 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:43:29 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
	qmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <p06002034bdc59823d204@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <001801c4cfd8$775744b0$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

I really tried a lot until now and I have read README.QMAIL numerous times.
I agree that everything looks like an alias problem, but if I want to solve
this ever, I have to start investigating.

I ran the script mentioned in the README.QMAIL file.  To clarify where
should those aliases be created?  In "/path/to/mailman" or in
"/path/to/vpopmail/domains" ;-)

Also isn't there a way to handle all this without aliases.  The tutorials I
read didn't work with aliases, but added "|/usr/bin/python
/var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py" to .qmail-default.  This .qmail-default is
supposed to reside in the mailman folder, but I also tried to put this in
the apropriate vpopmail folder.  I've added the lists.domain.tld, using
vqadmin.

My problem might be that I don't know for sure how all this works
internally.  That's what I believe and please correct me as this might lead
me the right direction...

1. I am sending a mail to "example at lists.domain.tld"
2. Qmail/vpopmail know the domain "lists.domain.tld" and take care of it
3. The user "example" is not known at "lists.domain.tld" so see what's in
.qmail-default
4. From there the file qmail-to-mailman.py is called using python
5. Mailman should handle everything from there

...but, that's not how it works.  

Could this also be a rights problem?  In one tutorial I read to compile
mailman with "--with-mail-gid=mailman", in the oter I read to compile it
with "--with-mail-gid=vchkpw" (the group used by qmail/vpopmail). What is
the correct way and how does this influence the process.

Sorry, I know a lot of questions and I would like to say thank you in
advance for any support given :-)

Best regards,

Alex



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. November 2004 01:57
An: DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
qmail/vpopmail


At 5:16 PM +0100 2004-11-20, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>  What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is 
> any mail  to mailman.  Let's say I have a list 
> mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an  email to this address as a 
> list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail  queue.

	This sounds like a problem with the aliases definitions on the MTA.

	Personally, I had never heard of either of the URLs you 
mentioned.  With regards to getting Mailman to work with qmail, the 
best reference I know of is found within the Mailman tarball, in the 
README.QMAIL file.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sun Nov 21 16:06:34 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:06:34 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman
In-Reply-To: <A322E9CC78D7175420A4E1E2@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411200655290.1887@access.ces.clemson.edu>
	<D07E635F8F59390AE76886A7@[10.0.0.4]>
	<Pine.GSO.4.58.0411202144230.4319@access.ces.clemson.edu>
	<A322E9CC78D7175420A4E1E2@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411211006210.5437@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004, Kenneth Porter wrote:

> --On Saturday, November 20, 2004 9:45 PM -0500 Matthew Saltzman
> <mjs at ces.clemson.edu> wrote:
>
> > Haven't actually tried it, but won't rpm complain about the missing
> > python-devel package when you attempt to install the SRPM?  Seems like
> > that would be what dependencies in SRPMs are for.
>
> No, build prerequisites are checked at build time, not unpacking time. Note
> that you can do both with one command, "rpmbuild --rebuild xxx.src.rpm".
> But if you just want to unpack it, use "rpm -i xxx.src.rpm" and it won't
> check the build prereqs. You can then unpack the tarball or inspect the
> spec file and patches and other support files included in the SRPM.

Ah, makes sense.  Thanks for the correction.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net  Sun Nov 21 16:18:54 2004
From: SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net (Speedy Gonzalis)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:18:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic non-members rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <20041121083321.GD31351@server.onjapan.net>
References: <419F4EA1.7090803@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
	<419F4EA1.7090803@jessikat.fsnet.co.uk>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121101336.038c2f90@pop.SoftHome.net>

At 03:33 AM 11/21/2004, Jim Tittsler wrote:
>On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 02:03:13PM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
>> I see this question asked, but haven't seen a reply. Is there any way to 
>>  change the response message that non-members receive when rejection is 
>> the chosen action?
>
>They receive the message in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py's
>do_reject() (or the translation of that message from the
>correct language catalog).

It looks to me that this is the automatic rejection of non member posts.  

Where is the default message located that is sent when someone selects "reject" from the held messages screen.  By default it sends a message that says "No reason given".

Tim



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sun Nov 21 17:07:37 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:07:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
Message-ID: <231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]>

--On Sunday, November 21, 2004 12:11 AM -0800 Nathan Fiedler 
<nfiedler at bluemarsh.com> wrote:

> I have found
> nothing that can explain why I continue to see the 403 Forbidden error.

Anything interesting in /var/log/httpd or /var/log/messages?

> Alias /pipermail/ /var/lib/mailman/archives/public/

Are there symlinks here to the directories in private? Here's what I see in 
my installation on FC2 (where the system is installed to /var/mailman):

$ ls -al /var/mailman/archives/public/
total 8
drwxrwsr-x  2 root   mailman 4096 Oct 13 08:10 .
drwxrwsr-x  4 root   mailman 4096 Jun  9 15:02 ..
lrwxrwxrwx  1 apache mailman   37 Oct 12 12:52 mailman -> 
/var/mailman/archives/private/mailman
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root   mailman   39 Oct 13 08:10 t2servers -> 
/var/mailman/archives/private/t2servers
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root   mailman   44 Oct 13 08:10 t2servers.mbox -> 
/var/mailman/archives/private/t2servers.mbox
lrwxrwxrwx  1 apache mailman   39 Oct 13 07:08 tvservers -> 
/var/mailman/archives/private/tvservers



From nfiedler at bluemarsh.com  Sun Nov 21 17:16:37 2004
From: nfiedler at bluemarsh.com (Nathan Fiedler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:16:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <alm.20041121100647.24176@gwaihir.akallabeth.de>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<alm.20041121100647.24176@gwaihir.akallabeth.de>
Message-ID: <1101053797.2373.2.camel@chip>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 10:06 +0100, Thomas Hochstein wrote:
> Nathan Fiedler wrote:
> > Now before you tell me that I need to set up the Apache configuration,
> > let me say that the mailman rpm in FC3 includes a .conf file already. I
> > have pasted it in below for your reference. 
> 
> You did reload/restart Apache, of course?

Yep. I restarted the Mailman service a few times, too.

I forgot to mention that I also ran withlist fix_url on all of the lists
to recreate the symbolic links from the public to private archives. Here
is an example:

lrwxrwxrwx  1 root mailman 48 Nov 20 15:44 jswat-announce -
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/jswat-announce

n




From nfiedler at bluemarsh.com  Sun Nov 21 17:25:39 2004
From: nfiedler at bluemarsh.com (Nathan Fiedler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:25:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 08:07 -0800, Kenneth Porter wrote:
> Anything interesting in /var/log/httpd or /var/log/messages?

The Apache error_log just has the usual "permission denied" message.
Now /var/log/messages is a different story, and I never thought to look
at that one:

Nov 21 08:18:12 chip kernel: audit(1101053892.157:0): avc:  denied
{ read } for  pid=25155 exe=/usr/sbin/httpd name=jswat-announce dev=hda6
ino=75928 scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t
tcontext=root:object_r:mailman_data_t tclass=lnk_file

Nov 21 08:18:12 chip kernel: audit(1101053892.157:0): avc:  denied
{ getattr } for  pid=25155 exe=/usr/sbin/httpd
path=/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/jswat-announce dev=hda6 ino=75928
scontext=root:system_r:httpd_t tcontext=root:object_r:mailman_data_t
tclass=lnk_file

> Are there symlinks here to the directories in private? Here's what I see in 
> my installation on FC2 (where the system is installed to /var/mailman):

Yep, I forgot to mention that I ran withlist fix_url at one point:

lrwxrwxrwx  1 root mailman 48 Nov 20 15:44 jswat-announce -
> /var/lib/mailman/archives/private/jswat-announce

So does anyone understand the audit error messages? I suppose that has
something to do with SELinux being enabled on this system, but I know
next to nothing about it.

Thanks

n




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 21 17:26:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 08:26:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bounce notifications.
In-Reply-To: <20041121093454.319a067e@gaf.blu.org>
Message-ID: <PC172220041121082614057872e58610@msapiro>

Jerry Feldman wrote:

>We run about 30 different listservs on the BLU server using Mailman
>2.1.4. We recently upgraded from an ancient release of mailman. Some of
>our listserv admins are complaining about "Uncaught bounce notification"
>messages. It appears that most of these result from delayed email
>notification to hotmail or msn subscribers.

There is a recent thread on this beginning at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/040837.html

>Personally, I just ignore
>them. While I have not tried this, if we disable "Should Mailman send
>you, the list owner, any bounce messages that failed to be detected by
>the bounce processor?", would that eliminate those messages. But, by
>disabling this, would the list owners lose some other important
>notification.

Yes, it would eliminate delivering those "unrecognized" delayed
notifications to the list owner, but it would also eliminate
delivering all other unrecognized bounces, some of which may be SPAM
or even desired messages sent to the list-bounces address and some of
which may be real bounces in a non-standard format which should be
seen. If this is a concern, you can set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL to some
non-zero value in mm_cfg.py so every nth post is VERP'd and "real"
bounces will eventually be detected.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From shiva at sewingwitch.com  Sun Nov 21 18:29:30 2004
From: shiva at sewingwitch.com (Kenneth Porter)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 09:29:30 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>	
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]> <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
Message-ID: <EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>

--On Sunday, November 21, 2004 8:25 AM -0800 Nathan Fiedler 
<nfiedler at bluemarsh.com> wrote:

> So does anyone understand the audit error messages? I suppose that has
> something to do with SELinux being enabled on this system, but I know
> next to nothing about it.

That'd be my guess. You could try asking on the Fedora-Users list, or 
perhaps the selinux list. I know this issue came up involving copying and 
moving files between the web directories and web space in a user's home 
directory (eg. ~/public_html), and that there's some kind of "context" 
attribute that needs to be assigned to the directories and files. But I 
don't recall the details. This is probably like learning how to use chmod 
and chown for Windows users.




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 21 19:54:19 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 10:54:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic non-members rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041121101336.038c2f90@pop.SoftHome.net>
Message-ID: <PC172220041121105419079616165faf@msapiro>

Speedy Gonzalis wrote:
>At 03:33 AM 11/21/2004, Jim Tittsler wrote:
>>On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 02:03:13PM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
>>> I see this question asked, but haven't seen a reply. Is there any way to 
>>>  change the response message that non-members receive when rejection is 
>>> the chosen action?
>>
>>They receive the message in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py's
>>do_reject() (or the translation of that message from the
>>correct language catalog).
>
>It looks to me that this is the automatic rejection of non member posts.  
>
>Where is the default message located that is sent when someone selects "reject" from the held messages screen.  By default it sends a message that says "No reason given".

It's in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py (or the appropriate language
translation).

In this case, you're expected to provide the message if you want one.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From nfiedler at bluemarsh.com  Sun Nov 21 21:07:04 2004
From: nfiedler at bluemarsh.com (Nathan Fiedler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:07:04 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]> <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
	<EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <1101067624.3274.1.camel@chip>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 09:29 -0800, Kenneth Porter wrote:
> That'd be my guess. You could try asking on the Fedora-Users list, or 
> perhaps the selinux list. I know this issue came up involving copying and 
> moving files between the web directories and web space in a user's home 
> directory (eg. ~/public_html), and that there's some kind of "context" 
> attribute that needs to be assigned to the directories and files. But I 
> don't recall the details. This is probably like learning how to use chmod 
> and chown for Windows users.

Good to know, thanks for the info. I'll read about SELinux and try
asking the fedora list since someone there ought to know about this.

Thanks

n




From nfiedler at bluemarsh.com  Sun Nov 21 21:43:15 2004
From: nfiedler at bluemarsh.com (Nathan Fiedler)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 12:43:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]> <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
	<EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>
Message-ID: <1101069795.3274.11.camel@chip>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 09:29 -0800, Kenneth Porter wrote:
> That'd be my guess. You could try asking on the Fedora-Users list, or 
> perhaps the selinux list. I know this issue came up involving copying and 
> moving files between the web directories and web space in a user's home 
> directory (eg. ~/public_html), and that there's some kind of "context" 
> attribute that needs to be assigned to the directories and files. But I 
> don't recall the details. This is probably like learning how to use chmod 
> and chown for Windows users.

It turns out the problem was simple and so was the solution. When
importing my existing list data and archives from another machine, I did
not know to update the selinux context labels appropriately. Thus, the
kernel was unable to determine if the apache user was allowed to access
the files. Normally it should be, but without the labels it wouldn't
succeed.

To correct the labels, I ran both of these commands as root:

# fixfiles relabel
# restorecon -Rv /var/lib/mailman

Their descriptions sound very similiar so I probably only needed one of
them.

Thanks again

nathan




From trb at sgi.com  Sun Nov 21 22:54:11 2004
From: trb at sgi.com (Tom Barton)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:54:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email to list rejected
Message-ID: <CD900AB4AF16D61180230004ACE85490050E7D3E@mtv-atc-606e--n.corp.sgi.com>

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
> Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2004 11:00 PM
> To: Tom Barton; 'mailman-users at python.org'
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Email to list rejected
> 
> Tom Barton wrote:
> 
> >For some reason email to my list is being rejected.  I've 
> set up a list with
> >my email address as the only member.  When I send email to 
> the list I get:
> >
> >   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> ><msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>
> >    (reason: 550 <msd_60 at foo.sgi.com>: Recipient address 
> rejected: User
> >unknown in local recipient table)
> 
> 
> This looks like an alias problem.

That was it.  There were two places in /etc/postfix/main.cf where alias_maps
was set.  The final one did not include the mailman aliases file.  I checked
that darned alias_maps variable 50 times, but didn't check to see if it was
set elsewhere in the file.  Sigh.  

Thanks, Mark!

Should I add this to the FAQ?

> >I'm using:
> >
> >foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep mailman
> >mailman-2.1.4-83.4
> >foo:trb $ rpm -aq|grep postfix
> >postfix-2.1.1-1.4
> >foo:trb $ uname -a
> >Linux foo 2.6.5-7.104-default #1 Wed Jul 28 16:42:13 UTC 
> 2004 i686 i686 i386
> >GNU/Linux
> >
> >Mailman and postfix were installed via rpm.
> >
> >There are no entries in /etc/postfix/access.  Should there be?  
> >
> >Where/how is access to sending email to a list managed?  How 
> particular is
> >it in regard to address matching?  In other words, does 
> every part of an
> >address have to match the address in the list, or does it 
> just look at the
> >user id?
> 
> 
> It is done through aliases that match the "user id" and pipe the
> message to mailman.
> 
> 
> >The machine is accepting email from the same address when it 
> is sent to a
> >user on the machine, but it is rejected when sent to a Mailman list.
> >
> >I thought this would be in the FAQ, but I can't find it.  If 
> you can help me
> >figure this out, I'll add it.
> 
> 
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> 
> Did you look at FAQ articles 1.7 and 3.14? They both mention aliases.
> 
> Have you read the INSTALL and README.POSTFIX documents that are in the
> standard Mailman distribution? Are these or equivalents in your
> mailman rpm? If you don't have them, you can find them at
> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/
> 
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 


From etierra at gmail.com  Mon Nov 22 07:08:14 2004
From: etierra at gmail.com (Tierra)
Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:08:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041120090213079632211749@msapiro>
References: <004201c4cf1c$49e14330$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
	<PC172220041120090213079632211749@msapiro>
Message-ID: <c7ef32a70411212208799469fd@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:02:13 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Alexander Schwethelm wrote:
> >
> >What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is any mail
> >to mailman.  Let's say I have a list mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an
> >email to this address as a list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail
> >queue.
> >
> >So I am not even sure if those mails ever reach mailman in order to process
> >the mails?
> 
> Have you read the README.QMAIL file that comes with the Mailman source
> distribution?

I just want to re-emphasize the importance of the README.QMAIL file,
it's only user notes, but those are important notes you need to
understand to get mailman working.

I'm running the same config (qmail/vpopmail) using lists.mydomain.tld.
Some quick tips from me aside from the user notes in the above
mentioned readme:

Let me jump on the first thing that comes to mind with your described
problem. Make sure you have the mailman user's maildir setup (and make
sure it's in the mailman user's home directory, which may be setup
elsewhere from /home/mailman, like /usr/local/mailman). I'm not
actually sure if you need the maildir setup, but it's just good
practice. Then if your going the same (easier) route I did setting up
mailing lists, make sure you have your .qmail-default file in the
mailman home directory with "|/usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py" (or where ever you
installed mailman).

That's all assuming your not doing mailing list aliases manually per
list. I highly suggest you take advantage of the qmail-to-mailman.py
script. Continuing on, make sure qmail knows where to send emails
going to lists.yourdomain.tld by adding "lists.yourdomain.tld:mailman"
in the qmail virtualdomains file (if this isn't setup right, and
rcpthosts is, that could be the cause of keeping an email in the queue
since it doesn't know where to put it).

Make sure you have lists.yourdomain.tld in the rcpthosts file for
qmail. From your description, it sounds like this is already done.

Last, but not least, if your still having problems, take a look at
your qmail logs for any description of what problems may be in the
way.

Bryan Petty


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 22 10:21:10 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:21:10 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Email to list rejected
In-Reply-To: <CD900AB4AF16D61180230004ACE85490050E7D3E@mtv-atc-606e--n.corp.sgi
	.com>
References: <CD900AB4AF16D61180230004ACE85490050E7D3E@mtv-atc-606e--n.corp.sgi
	.com>
Message-ID: <p0600203fbdc75fce9e8d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:54 PM -0800 2004-11-21, Tom Barton wrote:

>>  This looks like an alias problem.
>
>  That was it.  There were two places in /etc/postfix/main.cf where alias_maps
>  was set.  The final one did not include the mailman aliases file.  I checked
>  that darned alias_maps variable 50 times, but didn't check to see if it was
>  set elsewhere in the file.  Sigh.
>
>  Thanks, Mark!
>
>  Should I add this to the FAQ?

	This is covered in the README.POSTFIX file.  Personally, I don't 
think we need to put this in the FAQ as well.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Nov 22 16:35:09 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:35:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <1101067624.3274.1.camel@chip>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]> <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
	<EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]>  <1101067624.3274.1.camel@chip>
Message-ID: <1101137709.3846.22.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 15:07, Nathan Fiedler wrote:

[ SELinux permission problem snipped for brevity ]

FC3 installs with the SELinux "targeted" policy enabled by default. The
targeted policy is a restricted security policy that "targets" only the
most vulnerable system services rather than the entire system. Anytime
you see messages in your system log (/var/log/messages) with "'avc:
denied" it means the security policy has prohibited access and has
logged a warning. SELinux has much to offer in terms of enhanced
security in the day and age of rampant attacks by malicious intruders
however one of the downsides of SELinux is authoring a security policy
that both prevents invalid access but does not interfer with valid
operation of the system is challenging. This is one reason the current
security policy is "targeted", it applies only to system services that
make active use of network connections. Mailman was added to the list of
of system services under the protection of the SELinux targeted policy
in FC3. 

Just prior to the freeze on FC3 we discovered a bug in the security
policy during our testing that prohibited access to archives, if my
memory serves me correctly it affected only private archives, this would
appear to be what you hit. The security policy was fixed. However you
may not have the latest security policy. I suggest you bring your system
up to date with RPM packages, in particular you will want to be sure
you're running the latest selinix-policy-targeted rpm. You also have the
option to disable SELinux using the system-config-security-level applet.

It is my belief that the GOLD master release of FC3 had the version of
the selinux targeted policy which fixed the access to private archives,
so it might be that you installed prior to the GOLD release, but I will
verify this so no else gets tripped up by this.
-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From htian at ias.edu  Mon Nov 22 16:55:48 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 10:55:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C1@PICO>

Hi,

We use Mailman version 2.1.5. We have some mailing lists needed to strip all
attachments. Since Mailman 2.1.5 has MIME support, could we just use
"Content filtering" to do it? Does anyone know how to set up "Content
filtering" to remove all attachments (including plain text attachments) from
messages? 

Thanks for your help!
Hong



From tehlers at freenet.de  Mon Nov 22 17:19:55 2004
From: tehlers at freenet.de (Torsten Ehlers)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:19:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Apache won't show Mailman pages after reboot
Message-ID: <41A211AB.2060604@freenet.de>

Hi,

I'm running Mailman 2.1 on a Debian Woody system. It worked fine, but 
today I rebooted the server (after > 200 days) and now the web server 
(Apache) does not display mailman's web interfaces (e.g. 
mysite.com/mailman/listinfo as well as the other mailman pages). It shows:
"Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo on this server.

Apache/1.3.29 Server"
instead.
I did not change any configuration (neither Mailman nor Apache). Does 
anyone know what I can do about it?

Thanks a lot!

Torsten




From dave at umiacs.umd.edu  Mon Nov 22 17:30:06 2004
From: dave at umiacs.umd.edu (Dave Stern - Former Rocket Scientist)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:30:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wrapper busted
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.61.0411221104360.9766@reticle.umiacs.umd.edu>

I've got an old install (2.10.12) where, while mail to the lists goes
thru, the daily reminders do not ie the cron

    /usr/local/bin/python -S /fs/mailman/cron/checkdbs

produces

...to="|/fs/mailman/mail/wrapper mailowner mylist", ctladdr=<mylist-admin at myhost> (1/0), delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=prog, pri=139995, dsn=5.3.0, stat=unknown mailer error 2

>From searching the archive, I believe this is often caused by bad gid but 
the logfiles aren't indicating this.  More importantly, this install has 
been up and working correctly for a while but I believe an operator whacked 
a few files (including wrapper) an restored it from the install. Perms and 
ownership on the file look ok (2755, root:mailman) . I may be screwed,
I may need to try to reinstall the build or find an older backup. Anyone have
any ideas on further diagnosing this.

This'll probably just force the users to finally go to the newer (2.1.5) 
install

TIA

  =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-  generated by /dev/dave -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
  David Stern                                    University of Maryland
            Institute for Advanced Computer Studies


From jdennis at redhat.com  Mon Nov 22 17:44:03 2004
From: jdennis at redhat.com (John Dennis)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 11:44:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archives, the "Forbidden Zone"
In-Reply-To: <1101069795.3274.11.camel@chip>
References: <1101024714.22070.28.camel@chip>
	<231460961F9D5BC6A97FC84F@[10.0.0.4]> <1101054339.2373.9.camel@chip>
	<EA0B4FA318A632125711C9FB@[10.0.0.4]> <1101069795.3274.11.camel@chip>
Message-ID: <1101141843.3846.65.camel@finch.boston.redhat.com>

On Sun, 2004-11-21 at 15:43, Nathan Fiedler wrote:
> It turns out the problem was simple and so was the solution. When
> importing my existing list data and archives from another machine, I did
> not know to update the selinux context labels appropriately. Thus, the
> kernel was unable to determine if the apache user was allowed to access
> the files. Normally it should be, but without the labels it wouldn't
> succeed.
> 
> To correct the labels, I ran both of these commands as root:
> 
> # fixfiles relabel
> # restorecon -Rv /var/lib/mailman

I'm glad you got this problem fixed. I'm also relieved it was not a bug
in the security policy after all, we did try pretty hard to make sure
the policy shipped without problems but our testing centered around new
installations and didn't take into account copying in foreign files.
This sounds like something that needs documentation.

restorecon is the right tool to relabel files to their defaults in
specific directories. fixfiles would have relabeled the entire system
and is not generally recommended.

It may have helped if you had been the user mailman when you copied the
files as opposed to root, but there are many issues that impinge. Was
the operation a move or a copy? Did destination file previously exist?
Would you have had permission as mailman to read the files? etc. Rather
than enumeration all the possible considerations when dealing with files
and directories under the protection of SELinux the most expedient path
is to copy the files and relabel the files using restorecon, just as you
did.

-- 
John Dennis <jdennis at redhat.com>



From mailman at primatesynthesis.com  Mon Nov 22 19:30:24 2004
From: mailman at primatesynthesis.com (Mark)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:30:24 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new feature request (was: Re: setting a list for no
	daily reminders?)
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002000bdc7bea5fcbe@[192.168.123.146]>


Thanks to everyone who responded.  Please forgive this crosspost to
the developers group.  Seeing that there is no way to do this without
changing the code, and that many Mailman users are not Python
programmers or do not have the permission to make such changes on the
server they are using, I think it would be best if this was made an
option that could be set through the web interface for each list.
That way administrators could choose immediate notifications, daily
summaries, or both.

THANX!! :)


On 11/20/04, Mark Sapiro put forth:
>Mark wrote:
>  >
>  >I am running a list set to immediately send administrative requests
>  >(admin_immed_notify  set to yes), but I am getting daily notices as
>  >well.  I don't want to receive daily notices.  The immediate notices
>  >are sufficient.  Nor do I see the logic in filling my inbox with
>  >daily notices when I'm not around or haven't had a chance to process
>  >the immediate notices that are already sitting there.
>  >
>  >Is there any way to change this??
>
>You could delete the checkdbs entry from crontab, but this would affect
>all lists and also would have the side effect of never clearing stale
>entries from hold_and_cmd_autoresponses[] (I don't think this is
>serious because I don't think there is ever more than one entry per
>user - stale entries get "reused").
>
>The only other way and the only way to do it per list is to change the
>code in checkdbs.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 22 20:16:52 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:16:52 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new feature request (was: Re: setting
	a list for no 	daily reminders?)
In-Reply-To: <p06002000bdc7bea5fcbe@[192.168.123.146]>
References: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>
	<p06002000bdc7bea5fcbe@[192.168.123.146]>
Message-ID: <p06002046bdc7eb6c57f7@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:30 PM -0500 2004-11-22, Mark wrote:

>                         Seeing that there is no way to do this without
>  changing the code, and that many Mailman users are not Python
>  programmers or do not have the permission to make such changes on the
>  server they are using, I think it would be best if this was made an
>  option that could be set through the web interface for each list.

	If you want this to actually get on the list of requested feature 
enhancements, you should use the Mailman RFE page at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103> to submit 
your request.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 22 20:14:32 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:14:32 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C1@PICO>
References: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C1@PICO>
Message-ID: <p06002045bdc7eab12c22@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:55 AM -0500 2004-11-22, Hong Jiang Tian wrote:

>  We use Mailman version 2.1.5. We have some mailing lists needed to strip all
>  attachments. Since Mailman 2.1.5 has MIME support, could we just use
>  "Content filtering" to do it? Does anyone know how to set up "Content
>  filtering" to remove all attachments (including plain text attachments) from
>  messages?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.  Look at FAQ 1.8 and 
4.13, but you should also search for "attachment".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From htian at ias.edu  Mon Nov 22 21:25:05 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:25:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C5@PICO>

Brad,

We have some mailing lists that need to remove all types of attachments
(whatever plain text or non-plain text) from the messages. We don't allow
users to post the emails with attachments on these mailing lists.

I have looked at FAQ 1.8 and 4.13. I also searched the archive of the
Mailman user mailing list. I found that I could remove the MIME with HTML,
Word or some other content types. But I didn't find the answer to remove
attachments of the plain text file. Do you or other people know how to
resolve it?
 
Thanks for your help!
Hong



-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org]
Sent: Mon, November 22, 2004 2:15 PM
To: Hong Jiang Tian
Cc: 'mailman-users at python.org'
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering


At 10:55 AM -0500 2004-11-22, Hong Jiang Tian wrote:

>  We use Mailman version 2.1.5. We have some mailing lists needed to strip
all
>  attachments. Since Mailman 2.1.5 has MIME support, could we just use
>  "Content filtering" to do it? Does anyone know how to set up "Content
>  filtering" to remove all attachments (including plain text attachments)
from
>  messages?

	Go to the Mailman FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>.  Look at FAQ 1.8 and 
4.13, but you should also search for "attachment".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From davidr at drbott.com  Mon Nov 22 22:00:50 2004
From: davidr at drbott.com (David Reynolds)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:00:50 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Generic non-members rejection notice
In-Reply-To: <PC172220041121105419079616165faf@msapiro>
References: <PC172220041121105419079616165faf@msapiro>
Message-ID: <974B782A-3CC9-11D9-9AB9-000A95766D28@drbott.com>

On Nov 21, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Speedy Gonzalis wrote:
>> At 03:33 AM 11/21/2004, Jim Tittsler wrote:
>>> On Sat, Nov 20, 2004 at 02:03:13PM +0000, Robin Becker wrote:
>>>> I see this question asked, but haven't seen a reply. Is there any 
>>>> way to
>>>>  change the response message that non-members receive when 
>>>> rejection is
>>>> the chosen action?
>>>
>>> They receive the message in Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py's
>>> do_reject() (or the translation of that message from the
>>> correct language catalog).
>>
>> It looks to me that this is the automatic rejection of non member 
>> posts.
>>
>> Where is the default message located that is sent when someone 
>> selects "reject" from the held messages screen.  By default it sends 
>> a message that says "No reason given".
>
> It's in Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py (or the appropriate language
> translation).
>
> In this case, you're expected to provide the message if you want one.

This strikes me as more than a little odd, since the admin page 
provides a reason why a message was flagged for moderation...

> Click on the message number to view the individual message, or you can 
> view all messages from webmaster at drbott.com
>   	
> [1] 	Subject: 	blah
>   	Size: 	1251 bytes
>   	Reason: 	Post by non-member to a members-only list
>   	Received: 	Mon Nov 22 12:55:10 2004

When flagged with the 'reject' radio button, shouldn't the listed 
reason be passed on to the original poster?

Or is the reason just a guideline for the moderator, and must be 
manually specified for every message no matter which action (accept, 
defer, reject, discard) is chosen?

David Reynolds
Dr. Bott LLC
<http://www.drbott.com>



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Nov 22 22:28:17 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 22:28:17 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C5@PICO>
References: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C5@PICO>
Message-ID: <p06002049bdc80a08846f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:25 PM -0500 2004-11-22, Hong Jiang Tian wrote:

>  I have looked at FAQ 1.8 and 4.13. I also searched the archive of the
>  Mailman user mailing list. I found that I could remove the MIME with HTML,
>  Word or some other content types. But I didn't find the answer to remove
>  attachments of the plain text file. Do you or other people know how to
>  resolve it?

	So far as I know, the capabilities mentioned in 1.8 and 4.13 are 
your only options unless you want to add your own code to the 
software to achieve your goals.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mailman at primatesynthesis.com  Mon Nov 22 22:55:43 2004
From: mailman at primatesynthesis.com (Mark)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:55:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] new feature request (was: Re: setting a list for
	no daily reminders?)
In-Reply-To: <p06002046bdc7eb6c57f7@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <PC1722200411200930520359cbe20c7b@msapiro>
	<p06002000bdc7bea5fcbe@[192.168.123.146]>
	<p06002046bdc7eb6c57f7@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06002004bdc80fbcfe66@[192.168.123.146]>

On 11/22/04, Brad Knowles put forth:
>At 1:30 PM -0500 2004-11-22, Mark wrote:
>
>>                         Seeing that there is no way to do this without
>>  changing the code, and that many Mailman users are not Python
>>  programmers or do not have the permission to make such changes on the
>>  server they are using, I think it would be best if this was made an
>>  option that could be set through the web interface for each list.
>
>	If you want this to actually get on the list of requested 
>feature enhancements, you should use the Mailman RFE page at 
><http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103> to submit 
>your request.

Thanks.  Done.



From dougs at dawnsign.com  Tue Nov 23 00:40:37 2004
From: dougs at dawnsign.com (Doug Sampson)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:40:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %(confirmurl)s variable in verify.txt
Message-ID: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F8@mercury.dawnsign.com>

> 
> See the FAQ
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> 
> Article 4.29.
> 

Below is the data in my mm_cfg.py file. It already has a DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
AND A DEFAULT_URL. It would stand to assume that the subscription
confirmation would have established 'http://lists.dawnsign.com/mailman' as
the value for the %(confirmurl)s variable.


##############################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific configuration below, in mm_cfg.py . #
# See Defaults.py for explanations of the values.	     #

DEFAULT_HOST_NAME = 'lists.dawnsign.com'
#DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://lists.dawnsign.com/cgi-bin/mailman/'
DEFAULT_URL       = 'http://lists.dawnsign.com/mailman/'
IMAGE_LOGOS       = '/images/'
#IMAGE_LOGOS       = '/doc/'
USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = 0
DEFAULT_SEND_REMINDERS = 0

MAILMAN_OWNER     = 'mailman-owner@%s' % DEFAULT_HOST_NAME

PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL = '/pipermail'
PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_URL = '/cgi-bin/mailman/private'

ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER = 3

# Note - if you're looking for something that is imported from mm_cfg, but
you
# didn't find it above, it's probably in Defaults.py.


~Doug



From office at jlc.org.au  Tue Nov 23 05:11:00 2004
From: office at jlc.org.au (Jewish Learning Centre)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:11:00 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscribing to more then one list at a time
Message-ID: <20041123041110.496F91E4003@bag.python.org>

HI,
 
I've set up several new list on my web server and I want users to have the
option as to how many and which lists they subscribe to, like using a
checkbox system of subscribing to say list 1 and 2 but not 3. With filling
in the information once.
 
I had a look in the faq and couldn't see anything to do this. Does anyone
know a way to do this?
 
Thanks 
 
Michael
 
The Jewish Learning Centre
P.O. Box 1543
Double Bay
1360
Tel (02) 9365 5667
Fax (02) 9365 3578 
ACN :   075 310 575
ABN : 58 075 310 575
 


From jim at bikeguy.myip.org  Tue Nov 23 05:12:38 2004
From: jim at bikeguy.myip.org (Jim Danvers)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 23:12:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman user - Contribs.Org (SME/E-Smith) addon
	- 2.1.3 Bug?
Message-ID: <41A2B8B6.208@bikeguy.myip.org>

  Hey all...

Long story short.  Friend of mine has been dealing with cancer for the 
past 5 years (two distinct types / diagnosis)  He has been chronicling 
his story to fellow cyclists and friends via self built distribution 
lists using the built in mail client that comes with his windows 
machine.  Needless to say, he has spent quite a bit of time in and out 
of hospitals for various surgeries, treatments, etc...  mail is 
something that he has come to value.  Cutting to the chase - I built him 
a server (contribs.org - formerly known as mitel / e-smith) that is imap 
capable.  Centralized mail down - with a web interface.  He can get to 
his mail when he doesn't have access to his laptop and his isp 
connection at home.  Now...  I mention to him that I ~believe~ that I 
can turn this same machine into a private list server as the folks that 
maintain the server (contribs.org) also maintain a fine collection of 
user contributed (hence the name) of rpm's for use as add-on packages.  
It is quite nice.

Fast forwarding...  Indeed I do find a contrib - mailman - cool!  I get 
it setup and installed per some documentaton that I found, get a list 
all configured and ready to roll.  I e-mail Dave (my friend) to let him 
know that I feel that we are 'ready' to go live with this thing after 
having been testing / playing with it for a week or so to ensure that it 
is behaving the way that we want it to.  It's private, reply to address 
has been altered to someone else other than the list, no-one can post to 
the list except the list owner and delegated moderators, list is kept 
private - only list owner can view subscribers, etc...  it appears to be 
working perfectly.  ;)

Then I find out that there was, at some point in the past, some bug that 
was discovered that would allow for e-mail addresses to be viewed / 
obtained in some fashion.  Something about v2.1.3?  Anyway...  I start 
googling (quite a bit)...  I do see information (although not much) 
about the purported issue and how it was patched with some back level 
patches or something to that effect.  I discovered this list via 
aformention googling, and sure enough, I even came across another sme 
user who posted with a question back on the 4th of this month (Nov. '04 
-- link here:  
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/040616.html)  
Kind of panicky, and by no means any kind of *nix "guru" I ssh into the 
box running the list and 'locate' the mailman binaries (I had no idea 
where it installed itself to).  Turns out to be /opt/mailman/bin - don't 
know if this is typical or not.  I find a "version" fle in there, that 
judging by its "green" color is executable.  I run it and it tells me 
that the version that I have is this:

[root at gateway bin]# ./version
Using Mailman version: 2.1.3

2.1.3 - ;(  Do I have an issue?

Privacy on this list is something that Dave holds very dear due to the 
personal nature of the illness that I suspect many of his recipients are 
also dealing with.  (he currently uses "bcc" for the bulk of the people 
that he posts to)  Is there a means of testing this box to see if the 
existing list of addresses can be "harvested"  There are only three 
addresses in it @present - mine as builder, Dave's as site owner and my 
wife ( we needed a guinea pig tester to ensure that she could not post 
back to the list, reveal e-mail address, etc...  lol )  I don't care if 
those addresses get "harvested" as they are well known anyway.

Ok - so this wasn't so short.  Sorry.  Again - I'm no *nix guy.  I'm 
just a guy who rides and races a bike (as in pedal variety)  and happens 
to know a ~little~ bit about computers.  I offered to help out a good 
friend of mine, and the local cycling club in general, and I would just 
like to make sure that this thing will be "ok" (ie; secure).  (( 
realizing that secure and a forward facing gizmo on the public internet 
is kind of an oxymoron - but ya gotta at least do the best ya can, 'eh? ))

Thanks all.

-=- jd -=-

ps - Dave's site that another cyclist from the Syracuse, NY area put up 
for him is here (if anyone curious):
http://www.veloweb.org/davepanella



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 05:49:19 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 20:49:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C5@PICO>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411222049190265263603bc@msapiro>

Hong Jiang Tian wrote:
>
>We have some mailing lists that need to remove all types of attachments
>(whatever plain text or non-plain text) from the messages. We don't allow
>users to post the emails with attachments on these mailing lists.
>
>I have looked at FAQ 1.8 and 4.13. I also searched the archive of the
>Mailman user mailing list. I found that I could remove the MIME with HTML,
>Word or some other content types. But I didn't find the answer to remove
>attachments of the plain text file. Do you or other people know how to
>resolve it?

It depends on how you want to resolve it.

If you want to strip all attachments including content-type text/plain
attachments while allowing the primary text/plain part to go to the
list, then the answer is no - you can't do that with content filtering
as it exists.

If you are willing to allow all text/plain parts, whether the primary
part or an attachment, you can do that and strip everything else.

If you are willing to reject any post that contains any kind of
attachment and accept only single part text/plain or only single part
text/plain and text/plain parts from multipart/alternative, you can do
that too.

Examples:

To reject everything except single part text/plain set
filter_content   Yes
pass_mime_types  text/plain
filter_action    Reject

To also accept plain text parts from multipart/alternative, add
multipart/alternative to pass_mime_types above. I.e pass_mime_types
becomes
  text/plain
  multipart/alternative

To accept most text/plain parts including attachments and text/plain
parts from forwarded messages, pass_mime_types becomes
  multipart/mixed
  multipart/alternative
  message/rfc822
  text/plain

There is no way to accept only the first text/plain part from a
multipart/mixed part that contains more than one text/plain part.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 06:40:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 21:40:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] %(confirmurl)s variable in verify.txt
In-Reply-To: <EFADFCBA81EEBC4FA93D573B32AFFE270D32F8@mercury.dawnsign.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411222140030296d6c664cb@msapiro>

Doug Sampson quoted me and wrote:

>> 
>> See the FAQ
>> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> 
>> Article 4.29.
>> 
>
>Below is the data in my mm_cfg.py file. It already has a DEFAULT_HOST_NAME
>AND A DEFAULT_URL. It would stand to assume that the subscription
>confirmation would have established 'http://lists.dawnsign.com/mailman' as
>the value for the %(confirmurl)s variable.

As Jim Tittsler pointed out to me off list, the above FAQ is not
relevant to your issue. I was responding to the your question about
getting the IP address of your NAT device instead of the actual IP
address, but I totally lost sight of the context and thought it was a
different issue.

As for not getting the proper %(confirmurl)s replacement, Jim alluded
to a possible reason in his list post. He said

  Did Debian backport the %(confirmurl)s substitution to the 2.0.x
  version of Mailman?  I thought that didn't appear until the 2.1.x
  series.

The actual %(confirmurl)s string in 2.1.x contains a token which is
specific to the particular subscription request so that merely
visiting the link confirms the subscription. As far as I know, that's
the only way to confirm a subscription via the web. A generic link
without the token wouldn't do it. Is it possible that somehow your
verify.txt template is from a newer version than the underlying
software?

As far as the IP address is concerned, this is reported by the web
server, so if it can be resolved at all, I think it would have to be
between the web server and the NAT device rather than in Mailman.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 23 09:51:35 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 09:51:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman user - Contribs.Org
	(SME/E-Smith) addon 	- 2.1.3 Bug?
In-Reply-To: <41A2B8B6.208@bikeguy.myip.org>
References: <41A2B8B6.208@bikeguy.myip.org>
Message-ID: <p0600204dbdc8a888aa7d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 11:12 PM -0500 2004-11-22, Jim Danvers wrote:

>  I discovered this list via aformention googling, and sure enough, I even
>  came across another sme user who posted with a question back on the 4th
>  of this month (Nov. '04 -- link here:
>  http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/040616.html)

	So far as I can tell, this thread is about a problem with 
Defaults.py and the "DEFAULT_URL=" setting, and has nothing to do 
with the hiding of e-mail addresses.  I think maybe you cut-n-pasted 
the wrong URL, or something.

	If you're concerned about privacy issues, I'd encourage you to 
upgrade to version 2.1.5 and perhaps turn off the archive function, 
or at least make sure that people can't download the non anti-spammed 
version of the archives (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.034.htp>).


	Looking at the list of patches for Mailman at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103> and the 
list of known bugs at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=100103>, I'm not 
seeing any obvious hits for "privacy", "hide" or anything relevant 
that comes up when you search for "spam".  But maybe you should take 
a look around and see if you find anything that looks interesting to 
you.

	I'd also encourage you to look through the FAQ at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and see if there are any 
other entries which are related to exposing e-mail addresses or 
privacy, and you can search the archives of the mailman-users list 
according to the instructions at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.018.htp>.


	If you can find anything that appears to be more specific to your 
problem, we might be able to provide better advice.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 23 10:13:31 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:13:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman user - Contribs.Org 
	(SME/E-Smith) addon 	- 2.1.3 Bug?
In-Reply-To: <p0600204dbdc8a888aa7d@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <41A2B8B6.208@bikeguy.myip.org> <p0600204dbdc8a888aa7d@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p0600204ebdc8ae2cfd0d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:51 AM +0100 2004-11-23, Brad Knowles wrote:

>  	If you're concerned about privacy issues, I'd encourage you to upgrade
>  to version 2.1.5 and perhaps turn off the archive function, or at least
>  make sure that people can't download the non anti-spammed version of
>  the archives (see
>  <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.034.htp>).

	Of course, you should also investigate the various "privacy" 
settings available from the "Privacy options..." page from the web 
administration interface for your list.  For example, at the bottom 
of this page is an option with the description "Who can view 
subscription list? (Details for private_roster)", with a setting that 
probably defaults to "List members".  You might want to change this 
to be "List admin only".

	If you don't anyone to see the list being advertised when they 
visit your listinfo page, you'll want to change that option at the 
top of the page.

	I'd encourage you to explore all the various options for the 
mailing list settings, to see what impact they might have on privacy, 
etc....  Once you better understand what you can do with Mailman and 
how it works, you'll have a better idea of what potential privacy 
issues there may still be that should be addressed.


	Before upgrading to version 2.1.5, you should also take a look at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.008.htp> 
and 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq05.012.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Tue Nov 23 14:17:53 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:17:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying lists on different vhosts?
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411230811150.14869@access.ces.clemson.edu>

I have a Web server that serves a couple of different sites, aaa.com and
bbb.com (say).  It also is my Mailman host for both domains.

What I'd like is for list.aaa.com/mailman to show the lists for aaa.com
and list.bbb.com/mailman to show the lists for bbb.com.  I don't need to
worry about list namespace clashes--I have control of both servers, so I
can name the lists aaa-xxx-list and bbb-yyy-list to avoid conflicts.

At the moment, all lists show up on list.aaa.com/mailman.

Is this just a matter of having both Apache vhosts set up, then running
fix_url on the bbb.com lists, and then removing the redirect from
bbb.com/mailman to list.aaa.com/mailman?  Or is it more complicated than
that?

TIA.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From mylist at chrishome.com  Tue Nov 23 16:29:00 2004
From: mylist at chrishome.com (Christopher Cheng)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:29:00 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing Mailman database file with Java
Message-ID: <20041123152738.9DBDF1E4002@bag.python.org>

Is there a patch/plugin to make mailman uses mysql/mssql as backend?

 

Reading the code of MailList.py, it seems that it is using cPickle to save
the mail list

 

fp = open(fname_tmp, 'w')

# Use a binary format... it's more efficient.

cPickle.dump(dict, fp, 1)

fp.flush()

if mm_cfg.SYNC_AFTER_WRITE:

os.fsync(fp.fileno())

fp.close()

 

If I want to read the file using my Java program, either I have to the file
serialized by cPickle or modify the python code to write it to RDBMS. 

 

Anybody has an idea?

 

 



From htian at ias.edu  Tue Nov 23 16:38:34 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:38:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Content filtering
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664C7@PICO>

Mark,

>If you are willing to allow all text/plain parts, whether the primary
>part or an attachment, you can do that and strip everything else.
I tested it as follows:
pass_mime_types:
  multipart/mixed
  multipart/alternative
  text/plain

It works well to strip all attachments except the text/plain attachments.
But I still has a question. Is it possible to flatten the text/plain
attachments by "content filtering", so the text/plain attachments will
append to the primary part. I found that DEMIME flatten the attachments.

>If you want to strip all attachments including content-type text/plain
>attachments while allowing the primary text/plain part to go to the
>list, then the answer is no - you can't do that with content filtering
>as it exists.
If I couldn't use "content filtering" to strip text/plain attachments, did
you know which tools can do it? 

Thanks very much for your help!
Hong


From rrichman at shirotora.us  Tue Nov 23 16:50:59 2004
From: rrichman at shirotora.us (ShiroTora Administrative Account)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:50:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] vhosts & list are created but I still get 404 not
 found error on admin pages
Message-ID: <41A35C63.7010904@shirotora.us>

I am trying to add new lists to my Mailman config.  1 list was setup by 
my admin and I have followed the instruction I was given to setup new 
lists.  However I can't seem to get any of the admin pages (aside from 
the 1st list installed by my admin) to show up. 

I carefully edited the mm_cfg.py file under
/local/mailman/Mailman and added 1 add_virtualhost line for each of the 
needed domains

add_virtualhost('www.example.us', 'example.us')
SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 6

I notice that seems to have updated mm_cfg.pys file automatically.  
However I still can't get my admin page(s) that were emailed to me by 
mailman to work/show up.  I still get a 404 not found error...

It's not the aliases (not even getting to that point yet) but I did copy 
the alias table to the etc/mail/aliases file and ran newaliases for the 
1st list I was trying to setup. 

Any/all help on this is much appreciated as I really need to get a few 
lists up and running asap or a client. 

Thanks!

-- 
shirotora.net Hosting powered by ShiroTora Interservices
-|- In Memory of Renee Wolk Richman 6 NOV 1938 - 23 NOV 1994 -|-
 -|- http://www.theroadkill.us/dedication.html -|-
- Web hosting on a solid, industrial-class UNIX server
- Consulting Hardware/Software/Domain Registration & more





From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 17:39:32 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 08:39:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] vhosts & list are created but I still get 404
	notfound error on admin pages
In-Reply-To: <41A35C63.7010904@shirotora.us>
Message-ID: <PC17222004112308393206879133800f@msapiro>

ShiroTora Administrative Account wrote:

>I am trying to add new lists to my Mailman config.  1 list was setup by 
>my admin and I have followed the instruction I was given to setup new 
>lists.  However I can't seem to get any of the admin pages (aside from 
>the 1st list installed by my admin) to show up. 
>
>I carefully edited the mm_cfg.py file under
>/local/mailman/Mailman and added 1 add_virtualhost line for each of the 
>needed domains
>
>add_virtualhost('www.example.us', 'example.us')
>SMTP_MAX_RCPTS = 6
>
>I notice that seems to have updated mm_cfg.pys file automatically.  
>However I still can't get my admin page(s) that were emailed to me by 
>mailman to work/show up.  I still get a 404 not found error...

The list domains are probably OK as evidenced by the admin URL in the
e-mail being correct.

It seems like you don't have the appropriate ScriptAlias or whatever
directive for the virtual domains in your web server configuration.
>From the INSTALL document:

    - Configure your web server to give $prefix/cgi-bin permission to
      run CGI scripts.  You probably need to be root to do this.

      The line you should add might look something like the following
      (with the real absolute directory substituted for $prefix, of
      course):

          Exec          /mailman/*      $prefix/cgi-bin/*
      or:
          ScriptAlias   /mailman/       $prefix/cgi-bin/

      Consult your web server's documentation for details.

I don't know much about configuring Apache and I know nothing about
other web servers, but in Apache at least, if the original ScriptAlias
directive is inside a <VirtualHost> ... </VirtualHost> section it will
only apply to that virtual host.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jeff.blasius at yale.edu  Tue Nov 23 18:06:00 2004
From: jeff.blasius at yale.edu (Jeff Blasius)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:06:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE ignored
Message-ID: <41A36DF8.1020306@yale.edu>

Hello Everyone,
I am managing a mailinglist with about 150 members and the administrator 
would like to view all of the members on one page. That is, not have 
them broken up by first letter on the membership list. I'm pretty sure 
the solution is to change the DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE to 
something large, but it seems to be ignored. Any ideas?

This is a fresh install of 2.1.5 with the config and members added from 
a text dump. The config file (the output of config_list) does not have 
this variable set.

This is in mm_cfg.py:
##################################################
# Put YOUR site-specific settings below this line.
DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE = 500

Thanks,
               jeff



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 19:16:49 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 10:16:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE ignored
In-Reply-To: <41A36DF8.1020306@yale.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411231016490171e83e16dc@msapiro>

Jeff Blasius wrote:
>
>I am managing a mailinglist with about 150 members and the administrator 
>would like to view all of the members on one page. That is, not have 
>them broken up by first letter on the membership list. I'm pretty sure 
>the solution is to change the DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE to 
>something large, but it seems to be ignored. Any ideas?

The list attribute that controls this is admin_member_chunksize which
is set from DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE when the list is created.

>This is a fresh install of 2.1.5 with the config and members added from 
>a text dump. The config file (the output of config_list) does not have 
>this variable set.

It appears that bin/config_list is unaware of this attribute and there
is also no way to set it through the list admin gui. I.e. the list's
value for this attribute is whatever DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE
was when the list was created. After that, it seems you need to use
bin/withlist to change it.

[gpc_mailman at clint mailman]$ bin/withlist -l test_2
Loading list test_2 (locked)
The variable `m' is the test_2 MailList instance
>>> m.admin_member_chunksize
30
>>> m.admin_member_chunksize = 500
>>> m.Save()
>>>                           <- control-D
Unlocking (but not saving) list: test_2
Finalizing
[gpc_mailman at clint mailman]$

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jp at saucer.midcoast.com  Tue Nov 23 20:16:31 2004
From: jp at saucer.midcoast.com (Jason Philbrook)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:16:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] reverse sorting mailman's pipermail "sort by date"
	page
Message-ID: <20041123191631.GA12347@saucer.midcoast.com>

I noticed this feature was an item on the http://www.list.org/todo.html
page.

I ALMOST have this working as an extra script except, except
for the way the HTML code is formatted by the builtin pipermail messes 
up my script. 

Where can I change how the code is generated? I basically wish for the
code that creates thread.html to produce the closing </A> on the same
line as the opening <A. (It does the same unnecessary line braking with 
italics too, but stripping those out does no harm)

Currently it puts it on a different line and makes it difficult to
reorder the contents of the file.

Here is my Nasty Bash script. It creates a revthread.html from each
thread.html. 

#!/bin/bash
BD=/var/lib/mailman/archives/public/inhouse
cd $BD

for FILE in `cat index.html |grep thread.html |cut -d\" -f2` ; do
 FILELEN=` cat $BD/$FILE |wc -l`
 MONTH=`echo $FILE |cut -d/ -f1`
 echo $FILE
 echo $MONTH
 echo $FILELEN
 tail -n 22 $BD/$FILE > $BD/$MONTH/tail.html
 head -n 25 $BD/$FILE > $BD/$MONTH/head.html
 cat $BD/$FILE | head -n ` echo $(($FILELEN - 22))` | tail -n ` echo $(($FILELEN - 47))` > $BD/$MONTH/middl$
 cat $BD/$MONTH/head.html       > $BD/$MONTH/revthread.html
 tac $BD/$MONTH/middle.html      >>$BD/$MONTH/revthread.html
 cat $BD/$MONTH/tail.html       >>$BD/$MONTH/revthread.html
done

The only other howto for this task is at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg00629.html


-- 
/*
Jason Philbrook   |   Midcoast Internet Solutions - Internet Access,
    KB1IOJ        |  Hosting, and TCP-IP Networks for Midcoast Maine
 http://f64.nu/   |             http://www.midcoast.com/
*/


From cam at catchdesign.co.nz  Tue Nov 23 20:31:46 2004
From: cam at catchdesign.co.nz (Cam/Catch Design Collective)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:31:46 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing information from the default welcome email
Message-ID: <504C2072-3D86-11D9-ACDC-000D93C2D50A@catchdesign.co.nz>

Hi there,

I found an answer to this in the FAQs, but it is far too technical for 
me, so....

Is there any way to remove *ALL* the information from the "Welcome to 
the blah at blah.com mailing list" email that gets sent out? Could someone 
please explain this to me in a non-technical way?  Is there an option 
that I can turn on to make this list a read-only list?

I wan to create a custom default email without all the info about how 
to post to the list etc etc....

Thank you in advance,

Cam

cam at catchdesign.co.nz

Catch Design
Offices & Courier: 39 The Terrace, Level 2, Greenock House
Post: 57 sutherland road, melrose, wellington
W: +64 4 499 9605
M: +64 21 605 445

A Member of Catch Design Collective
http://www.catchdesign.co.nz



From jeff.blasius at yale.edu  Tue Nov 23 20:57:13 2004
From: jeff.blasius at yale.edu (Jeff Blasius)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 14:57:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE ignored
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411231016490171e83e16dc@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411231016490171e83e16dc@msapiro>
Message-ID: <41A39619.5020004@yale.edu>

Great Thanks!
        -jeff


Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Jeff Blasius wrote:
>  
>
>>I am managing a mailinglist with about 150 members and the administrator 
>>would like to view all of the members on one page. That is, not have 
>>them broken up by first letter on the membership list. I'm pretty sure 
>>the solution is to change the DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE to 
>>something large, but it seems to be ignored. Any ideas?
>>    
>>
>
>The list attribute that controls this is admin_member_chunksize which
>is set from DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE when the list is created.
>
>  
>
>>This is a fresh install of 2.1.5 with the config and members added from 
>>a text dump. The config file (the output of config_list) does not have 
>>this variable set.
>>    
>>
>
>It appears that bin/config_list is unaware of this attribute and there
>is also no way to set it through the list admin gui. I.e. the list's
>value for this attribute is whatever DEFAULT_ADMIN_MEMBER_CHUNKSIZE
>was when the list was created. After that, it seems you need to use
>bin/withlist to change it.
>
>[gpc_mailman at clint mailman]$ bin/withlist -l test_2
>Loading list test_2 (locked)
>The variable `m' is the test_2 MailList instance
>  
>
>>>>m.admin_member_chunksize
>>>>        
>>>>
>30
>  
>
>>>>m.admin_member_chunksize = 500
>>>>m.Save()
>>>>                          <- control-D
>>>>        
>>>>
>Unlocking (but not saving) list: test_2
>Finalizing
>[gpc_mailman at clint mailman]$
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>  
>



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 21:49:09 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 12:49:09 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Removing information from the default welcome
	email
In-Reply-To: <504C2072-3D86-11D9-ACDC-000D93C2D50A@catchdesign.co.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17222004112312490900000919b029@msapiro>

Cam/Catch Design Collective wrote:
>
>I found an answer to this in the FAQs, but it is far too technical for 
>me, so....
>
>Is there any way to remove *ALL* the information from the "Welcome to 
>the blah at blah.com mailing list" email that gets sent out? Could someone 
>please explain this to me in a non-technical way?

You need to make your own version of the subscribeack.txt template and
install it as a list specific, domain specific or sitewide template
(probably list specific in this case). For example, if your list's
name is mylist and the only language you're concerned with is English,
your template would go in lists/mylist/en/subscribeack.txt where
lists/mylist is the existing directory for your list in the mailman
installation.

FAQ article 4.48 explains this process.

>Is there an option 
>that I can turn on to make this list a read-only list?

There is no single option to set to make a read-only list. FAQ article
3.11 explains the various steps required.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

It seems to me that the above to FAQ articles already present the
required information in as "non-technical" a way as is possible.
Perhaps if you could point to specific things in the FAQ which are
unclear to you and ask specific questions about them, we might be able
to help you further.

Note that some of this requires shell (command line) access to your
Mailman installation. If you don't have this, you are going to need
the assistance of someone who administers your mailman installation at
that level.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rdewald at rdewald.us  Tue Nov 23 22:31:45 2004
From: rdewald at rdewald.us (R DeWald)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 16:31:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4+Debian - Moderation action inaction
Message-ID: <20041123213145.GA3619@rdewald.us>

I am new to the list.  I have searched the archives and I can't find a
message concerning the problem I am having.

My MTA is exim4 and I use apache.  It is a debian testing server and I
installed mailman via apt-get.  I have reviewed and followed the
relevant README's.  I have a feeling something really dumb is going on.

I set up a list and sent one test message.  It is being held for
moderation and as the list owner I get an email every morning telling me
as much.  I load a browser, use the script to get to the pending
moderations page, I click the accept radio button and submit the form.

The page reloads as is.  The message is still there, as if I had taken
no action.

Nothing in error logs, the SMTP log just reflects the owner notification
being delivered, nothing else.  All the other logs look fine, as if the
list is getting no traffic except for the daily notification of the test
message being held for moderation (non-member posting to a members only
list).

Any ideas?


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 22:32:41 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:32:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying lists on different vhosts?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411230811150.14869@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17222004112313324100151c856e58@msapiro>

Matthew Saltzman wrote:

>I have a Web server that serves a couple of different sites, aaa.com and
>bbb.com (say).  It also is my Mailman host for both domains.
>
>What I'd like is for list.aaa.com/mailman to show the lists for aaa.com
>and list.bbb.com/mailman to show the lists for bbb.com.  I don't need to
>worry about list namespace clashes--I have control of both servers, so I
>can name the lists aaa-xxx-list and bbb-yyy-list to avoid conflicts.
>
>At the moment, all lists show up on list.aaa.com/mailman.
>
>Is this just a matter of having both Apache vhosts set up, then running
>fix_url on the bbb.com lists, and then removing the redirect from
>bbb.com/mailman to list.aaa.com/mailman?  Or is it more complicated than
>that?

You don't specifically mention it, but before you run fix_url you need
to have a bbb.com entry in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You do this
with add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py - FAQ article 4.29 gives a bit
more detail.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 23 22:48:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 13:48:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Exim4+Debian - Moderation action inaction
In-Reply-To: <20041123213145.GA3619@rdewald.us>
Message-ID: <PC17222004112313480300785dba07d1@msapiro>

R DeWald wrote:
>
>My MTA is exim4 and I use apache.  It is a debian testing server and I
>installed mailman via apt-get.  I have reviewed and followed the
>relevant README's.  I have a feeling something really dumb is going on.
>
>I set up a list and sent one test message.  It is being held for
>moderation and as the list owner I get an email every morning telling me
>as much.  I load a browser, use the script to get to the pending
>moderations page, I click the accept radio button and submit the form.
>
>The page reloads as is.  The message is still there, as if I had taken
>no action.

Have you seen
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stevew at tunedinweb.com  Tue Nov 23 23:05:57 2004
From: stevew at tunedinweb.com (Steve Wehr)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:05:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get status of the progress of sending to a
	large list
Message-ID: <000101c4d1a8$9c6126a0$6501a8c0@6w5gu>

Hi,

I'm converting my Lyris mailing lists to Mailman and so far so good. One
feature that Lyris has is the ability to send a progress report to the
person who posts an email to the list. This progress report shows how many
list members have received the email so far and how many times Lyris has
tried to send the mailing. Lyris keeps sending this report to the poster
until all users on the list have received the mailing or it gives up on
those who keep bouncing. This can take several days.

I'm using Mailman to create mailing lists for some unsophisticated clients,
and this feature was very reassuring to them that their email really got to
all the list members.

Is there anything like this I can setup with Mailman??

Thanks.

Steve Wehr
Tunedin Web Design - TunedinWeb.com




From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Tue Nov 23 22:16:05 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:16:05 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
Message-ID: <p06002009bdc9578300b0@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi again,
	I have a quick question that doesn't seem to be answered in 
any of the documentation I have found or the FAQs I have read.
	Is it possible to delete a list using the HTML pages in 
Mailman? If not, am I correct in that deleting a list requires 
running the rmlist command from the command line like this:

rmlist listname

	Finally, many thanks to those who assisted me in getting 
Mailman up & running.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 23 23:49:33 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 23:49:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to get status of the progress of
	sending to a 	large list
In-Reply-To: <000101c4d1a8$9c6126a0$6501a8c0@6w5gu>
References: <000101c4d1a8$9c6126a0$6501a8c0@6w5gu>
Message-ID: <p06002051bdc96e43029d@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:05 PM -0500 2004-11-23, Steve Wehr wrote:

>  I'm using Mailman to create mailing lists for some unsophisticated clients,
>  and this feature was very reassuring to them that their email really got to
>  all the list members.
>
>  Is there anything like this I can setup with Mailman??

	You can run external log processing scripts that will take the 
syslog data generated by your MTA and turn that into a report which 
they might potentially be able to make some sense of.  However, this 
is not integrated into Mailman.

	If you want to see what's possible here, your options will vary 
depending on your MTA.  If you're using postfix, take a look at 
"pflogsumm" (see <http://jimsun.linxnet.com/postfix_contrib.html>). 
One MTA-independant method is to use "lire" from logreport.org.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From fehwalker at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 00:02:32 2004
From: fehwalker at gmail.com (Bryan Fullerton)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:02:32 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <p06002009bdc9578300b0@203.53.37.182>
References: <p06002009bdc9578300b0@203.53.37.182>
Message-ID: <35de0c3004112315027c15a405@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:16:05 +1100, Terry Allen <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>         Is it possible to delete a list using the HTML pages in
> Mailman? If not, am I correct in that deleting a list requires
> running the rmlist command from the command line like this:

Good question. I see there's a rmlist wrapper in the cgi-bin
directory, so theoretically you should be able to use the URL
/mailman/rmlist/listname, but when I tried with one of my lists I get
simply this back:

You're being a sneaky list owner!

So either there are more arguments needed, or perhaps someone was just
having a private laugh when that command was added to the web
interface...

Bryan


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 24 00:06:13 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:06:13 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <p06002009bdc9578300b0@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC172220041123150613068731eaf95c@msapiro>

Terry Allen wrote:

>	I have a quick question that doesn't seem to be answered in 
>any of the documentation I have found or the FAQs I have read.
>	Is it possible to delete a list using the HTML pages in 
>Mailman? If not, am I correct in that deleting a list requires 
>running the rmlist command from the command line like this:
>
>rmlist listname

>From Defaults.py -

# Set this variable to Yes to allow list owners to delete their own mailing
# lists.  You may not want to give them this power, in which case, setting
# this variable to No instead requires list removal to be done by the site
# administrator, via the command line script bin/rmlist.
OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = No

So if you set

OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes

(in mm_cfg.py of course), there will be a 'Delete this mailing list' link on
the admin pages.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 24 00:14:23 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 15:14:23 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <35de0c3004112315027c15a405@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1722200411231514230546c58a42b9@msapiro>

Bryan Fullerton wrote:
>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:16:05 +1100, Terry Allen <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>         Is it possible to delete a list using the HTML pages in
>> Mailman? If not, am I correct in that deleting a list requires
>> running the rmlist command from the command line like this:
>
>Good question. I see there's a rmlist wrapper in the cgi-bin
>directory, so theoretically you should be able to use the URL
>/mailman/rmlist/listname, but when I tried with one of my lists I get
>simply this back:
>
>You're being a sneaky list owner!
>
>So either there are more arguments needed, or perhaps someone was just
>having a private laugh when that command was added to the web
>interface...

Actually, neither (unless you want to consider a mm_cfg parameter an
argument). If OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes as I indicated
in my previous post, what you tried will work.
 
--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Wed Nov 24 00:43:06 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:43:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying lists on different vhosts?
In-Reply-To: <PC17222004112313324100151c856e58@msapiro>
References: <PC17222004112313324100151c856e58@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411231842260.24105@orchard-hays.ces.clemson.edu>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> >I have a Web server that serves a couple of different sites, aaa.com and
> >bbb.com (say).  It also is my Mailman host for both domains.
> >
> >What I'd like is for list.aaa.com/mailman to show the lists for aaa.com
> >and list.bbb.com/mailman to show the lists for bbb.com.  I don't need to
> >worry about list namespace clashes--I have control of both servers, so I
> >can name the lists aaa-xxx-list and bbb-yyy-list to avoid conflicts.
> >
> >At the moment, all lists show up on list.aaa.com/mailman.
> >
> >Is this just a matter of having both Apache vhosts set up, then running
> >fix_url on the bbb.com lists, and then removing the redirect from
> >bbb.com/mailman to list.aaa.com/mailman?  Or is it more complicated than
> >that?
>
> You don't specifically mention it, but before you run fix_url you need
> to have a bbb.com entry in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You do this
> with add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py - FAQ article 4.29 gives a bit
> more detail.
>
> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Got that part.  Thanks.

Is the rest of it pretty much correct?

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From lists at serpe.org  Wed Nov 24 00:47:15 2004
From: lists at serpe.org (Nicolas)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 00:47:15 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] deploying on a large scale basis
Message-ID: <41A3CC03.5000604@serpe.org>

Hi,

I'm a user of fre


From info at digital4u.de  Wed Nov 24 01:38:07 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:38:07 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <c7ef32a70411212208799469fd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <009201c4d1bd$e1489130$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

Hi there,

Sorry, it took me while to reply to your detailed and nice email, but I
needed to do some more investiagtion.

First of all I was partly able to send mail to a list on my machine, I'll
shortly explain, because it still is not configured correctly.  It would be
great I somebody could even answer some of my questions as this would
already make the picture clearer for me.

1. I re-configured mailman with "--with-mail-gid=vchkpw".  Here I am not
sure what would be correct and how this influences the installation/system.
So what should I use there mailman or vchkpw???

2. I know created a "/home/vpopmail/domains/mailman" for my .qmail files.
Before I either created /home/vpopmail/domains/mylist.domain.tld or droped a
.qmail file directly into /var/mailman.  What is correct here?

3. Putting "|/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py" in either
".qmail-default" or ".qmail-mylist" doesn't work.  What works is putting
"|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist" into .qmail-mylist, but it would be
impossible to add for each list all those aliases.  What am I doing wrong?
Is there maybe something wrong with my "qmail-to-mailman.py"-file?

4. Also, but not as important, I am already wondering why there is always a
text file attached to each message  (something like ATT00111.txt). This file
contains the listname, lists email address and the web link.  Why is that?

Thanks again and in advance for any support!!

Alex



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Tierra [mailto:etierra at gmail.com] 
Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2004 07:08
An: Mark Sapiro
Cc: DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm; mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
withqmail/vpopmail


On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 09:02:13 -0800, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Alexander Schwethelm wrote:
> >
> >What doesn't work and this is of course the most important part, is 
> >any mail to mailman.  Let's say I have a list 
> >mylist at lists.mydomain.tld and I send an email to this address as a 
> >list user, the mail gets stuck in the qmail queue.
> >
> >So I am not even sure if those mails ever reach mailman in order to 
> >process the mails?
> 
> Have you read the README.QMAIL file that comes with the Mailman source 
> distribution?

I just want to re-emphasize the importance of the README.QMAIL file, it's
only user notes, but those are important notes you need to understand to get
mailman working.

I'm running the same config (qmail/vpopmail) using lists.mydomain.tld. Some
quick tips from me aside from the user notes in the above mentioned readme:

Let me jump on the first thing that comes to mind with your described
problem. Make sure you have the mailman user's maildir setup (and make sure
it's in the mailman user's home directory, which may be setup elsewhere from
/home/mailman, like /usr/local/mailman). I'm not actually sure if you need
the maildir setup, but it's just good practice. Then if your going the same
(easier) route I did setting up mailing lists, make sure you have your
.qmail-default file in the mailman home directory with "|/usr/bin/python
/usr/local/mailman/bin/qmail-to-mailman.py" (or where ever you installed
mailman).

That's all assuming your not doing mailing list aliases manually per list. I
highly suggest you take advantage of the qmail-to-mailman.py script.
Continuing on, make sure qmail knows where to send emails going to
lists.yourdomain.tld by adding "lists.yourdomain.tld:mailman" in the qmail
virtualdomains file (if this isn't setup right, and rcpthosts is, that could
be the cause of keeping an email in the queue since it doesn't know where to
put it).

Make sure you have lists.yourdomain.tld in the rcpthosts file for qmail.
>From your description, it sounds like this is already done.

Last, but not least, if your still having problems, take a look at your
qmail logs for any description of what problems may be in the way.

Bryan Petty





From etierra at gmail.com  Wed Nov 24 02:02:33 2004
From: etierra at gmail.com (Tierra)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 18:02:33 -0700
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <009201c4d1bd$e1489130$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
References: <c7ef32a70411212208799469fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<009201c4d1bd$e1489130$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <c7ef32a70411231702490e892f@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:38:07 +0100, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander
Schwethelm <info at digital4u.de> wrote:
> 1. I re-configured mailman with "--with-mail-gid=vchkpw".  Here I am not
> sure what would be correct and how this influences the installation/system.
> So what should I use there mailman or vchkpw???

Your actually going to want "--with-mail-gid=mailman" with your setup.
None of the mailman stuff goes through vpopmail. You don't even need
to setup a domain with vadddomain, so you'll probably want to
vdeldomain. When you put "list.mydomain.tld:mailman" in virtualdomains
file in qmail, your telling qmail to send all mail that goes to that
domain to the local user "mailman", unlike your other vpopmail domains
which should look like "virtual.com:virtual.com" - meaning send to
vpopmail to handle. So vpopmail has nothing to do with mailman/qmail.
So the reason your going to want to configure with the mailman gid is
so mailman has access to the mail being delivered to the mailman user
instead of if you were handling lists on virtual domains setup in
vpopmail (which is a pain with qmail), where you would need to
configure with vpopmail actually, not vchkpwd (I think anyway). This
is the reason setting up with lists.mydomain.tld instead of just
mydomain.tld is so much easier.

> 2. I know created a "/home/vpopmail/domains/mailman" for my .qmail files.
> Before I either created /home/vpopmail/domains/mylist.domain.tld or droped a
> .qmail file directly into /var/mailman.  What is correct here?

Again, get rid of all entries of lists.mydomain.tld in vpopmail, you
won't need them. You will need the .qmail-default file in the mailman
user's home directory (which like I mentioned before might be
elsewhere from /home/mailman).

> 3. Putting "|/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py" in either
> ".qmail-default" or ".qmail-mylist" doesn't work.  What works is putting
> "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist" into .qmail-mylist, but it would be
> impossible to add for each list all those aliases.  What am I doing wrong?
> Is there maybe something wrong with my "qmail-to-mailman.py"-file?

There's two ways to doing this. The first is using the script provided
inline with the README.QMAIL file to generate those .qmail-mylist-*
files, and doing that for EVERY list. The second, is creating a
.qmail-default file that has runs the qmail-to-mailman.py script which
parses everything and sends it where it needs to go. It also handles
any new lists you create as well. That's the reason it's the highly
suggested route.

It sounds like you either have the wrong path to the qmail-to-mailman
script, or the permissions are messed up (check my first note).
Another thing you need to check is "su mailman" and run
bin/check_perms script to make sure mailman has all the access it
needs.

> 4. Also, but not as important, I am already wondering why there is always a
> text file attached to each message  (something like ATT00111.txt). This file
> contains the listname, lists email address and the web link.  Why is that?

Umm, other people know more about that than I do on the list, I'll let
someone else answer that.

Bryan Petty

P.S. Can you use the "Reply-To-All" feature of your mail client so
everything stays in the same thread?


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 24 02:15:52 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 02:15:52 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and
	running 	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <c7ef32a70411231702490e892f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c7ef32a70411212208799469fd@mail.gmail.com>
	<009201c4d1bd$e1489130$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
	<c7ef32a70411231702490e892f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p06002052bdc991303248@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:02 PM -0700 2004-11-23, Tierra wrote:

>>  4. Also, but not as important, I am already wondering why there is always a
>>  text file attached to each message  (something like ATT00111.txt). This file
>>  contains the listname, lists email address and the web link.  Why is that?
>
>  Umm, other people know more about that than I do on the list, I'll let
>  someone else answer that.

	This is most likely the issue addressed in 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 24 02:23:08 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 17:23:08 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying lists on different vhosts?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411231842260.24105@orchard-hays.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17222004112317230800465b43ae56@msapiro>

Matthew Saltzman <wrote:

>On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>>
>> >I have a Web server that serves a couple of different sites, aaa.com and
>> >bbb.com (say).  It also is my Mailman host for both domains.
>> >
>> >What I'd like is for list.aaa.com/mailman to show the lists for aaa.com
>> >and list.bbb.com/mailman to show the lists for bbb.com.  I don't need to
>> >worry about list namespace clashes--I have control of both servers, so I
>> >can name the lists aaa-xxx-list and bbb-yyy-list to avoid conflicts.
>> >
>> >At the moment, all lists show up on list.aaa.com/mailman.
>> >
>> >Is this just a matter of having both Apache vhosts set up, then running
>> >fix_url on the bbb.com lists, and then removing the redirect from
>> >bbb.com/mailman to list.aaa.com/mailman?  Or is it more complicated than
>> >that?
>>
>> You don't specifically mention it, but before you run fix_url you need
>> to have a bbb.com entry in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You do this
>> with add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py - FAQ article 4.29 gives a bit
>> more detail.
>>
>> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>
>Got that part.  Thanks.
>
>Is the rest of it pretty much correct?

I think so.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From shubhamsaxena1 at yahoo.co.in  Wed Nov 24 05:23:08 2004
From: shubhamsaxena1 at yahoo.co.in (Shubham Saxena)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 04:23:08 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to set archives link.
Message-ID: <20041124042308.62973.qmail@web8506.mail.in.yahoo.com>

I have done all the things but the archives page cannot be setup. Can u please tell me how to set link for archives. i am using mailman 2.1 on linux red hat 9.

Yahoo! India Matrimony: Find your life partneronline.

From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Wed Nov 24 09:13:51 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:13:51 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <PC1722200411231514230546c58a42b9@msapiro>
References: <PC1722200411231514230546c58a42b9@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002003bdc9f2894d7d@[203.53.37.182]>

>Bryan Fullerton wrote:
>>On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:16:05 +1100, Terry Allen <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>>          Is it possible to delete a list using the HTML pages in
>>>  Mailman? If not, am I correct in that deleting a list requires
>>>  running the rmlist command from the command line like this:
>>
>>Good question. I see there's a rmlist wrapper in the cgi-bin
>>directory, so theoretically you should be able to use the URL
>>/mailman/rmlist/listname, but when I tried with one of my lists I get
>>simply this back:
>>
>>You're being a sneaky list owner!
>>
>>So either there are more arguments needed, or perhaps someone was just
>>having a private laugh when that command was added to the web
>>interface...
>
>Actually, neither (unless you want to consider a mm_cfg parameter an
>argument). If OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes as I indicated
>in my previous post, what you tried will work.
>
>--
>Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
>San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
Hi again,
	Many thanks for the above & your last reply. I'm still unsure 
as to why my posts are being held prior to being sent - they are 
getting through, but something about a 'suspcicous header'. Possibly 
because my address is actually sent from our own network, not via my 
original ISP server.
	From what I can gather, I can add your above suggestion to 
mm_cfg.py & rerun the config? Thnks again for your replies.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 24 11:16:04 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 11:16:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Deleting a list
In-Reply-To: <p06002003bdc9f2894d7d@[203.53.37.182]>
References: <PC1722200411231514230546c58a42b9@msapiro>
	<p06002003bdc9f2894d7d@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <p06002058bdca0fa1d4f1@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:13 PM +1100 2004-11-24, Terry Allen wrote:

>  	Many thanks for the above & your last reply. I'm still unsure as to why
>  my posts are being held prior to being sent - they are getting through,
>  but something about a 'suspcicous header'. Possibly because my address
>  is actually sent from our own network, not via my original ISP server.

	Yes, there is some sort of header that Mailman is finding to be 
suspicious, but I have not yet figured out what the problem is. 
Until then, the messages have to be manually approved.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Wed Nov 24 14:16:58 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:16:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Displaying lists on different vhosts? [SOLVED]
In-Reply-To: <PC17222004112317230800465b43ae56@msapiro>
References: <PC17222004112317230800465b43ae56@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411240815540.19601@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Matthew Saltzman <wrote:
>
> >On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> >
> >> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> >>
> >> >I have a Web server that serves a couple of different sites, aaa.com and
> >> >bbb.com (say).  It also is my Mailman host for both domains.
> >> >
> >> >What I'd like is for list.aaa.com/mailman to show the lists for aaa.com
> >> >and list.bbb.com/mailman to show the lists for bbb.com.  I don't need to
> >> >worry about list namespace clashes--I have control of both servers, so I
> >> >can name the lists aaa-xxx-list and bbb-yyy-list to avoid conflicts.
> >> >
> >> >At the moment, all lists show up on list.aaa.com/mailman.
> >> >
> >> >Is this just a matter of having both Apache vhosts set up, then running
> >> >fix_url on the bbb.com lists, and then removing the redirect from
> >> >bbb.com/mailman to list.aaa.com/mailman?  Or is it more complicated than
> >> >that?
> >>
> >> You don't specifically mention it, but before you run fix_url you need
> >> to have a bbb.com entry in the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. You do this
> >> with add_virtualhost() in mm_cfg.py - FAQ article 4.29 gives a bit
> >> more detail.
> >>
> >> >Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> >
> >Got that part.  Thanks.
> >
> >Is the rest of it pretty much correct?
>
> I think so.

I think I got it (with some help setting up Apache redirects).  Thanks!

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 24 16:21:25 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 07:21:25 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting a list)
In-Reply-To: <p06002058bdca0fa1d4f1@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1723200411240721250437703ecd8e@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 7:13 PM +1100 2004-11-24, Terry Allen wrote:
>
>>  	Many thanks for the above & your last reply. I'm still unsure as to why
>>  my posts are being held prior to being sent - they are getting through,
>>  but something about a 'suspcicous header'. Possibly because my address
>>  is actually sent from our own network, not via my original ISP server.
>
>	Yes, there is some sort of header that Mailman is finding to be 
>suspicious, but I have not yet figured out what the problem is. 
>Until then, the messages have to be manually approved.

Hold for "suspicious header" occurs because a header matched one of the
regexps in bounce_matching_headers - see "legacy spam filters" in
Privacy options...->Spam filters.

The following comment in Hold.py explains why the actual header is not
reported.

            # TBD: Darn - can't include the matching line for the admin
            # message because the info would also go to the sender

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 24 16:49:35 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 16:49:35 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting a
 list)
In-Reply-To: <PC1723200411240721250437703ecd8e@msapiro>
References: <PC1723200411240721250437703ecd8e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0600205ebdca5d8716f1@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:21 AM -0800 2004-11-24, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Hold for "suspicious header" occurs because a header matched one of the
>  regexps in bounce_matching_headers - see "legacy spam filters" in
>  Privacy options...->Spam filters.

	Ahh.  Found it.  Apparently, there have been major spam problems 
in the past with ozemail.com.au -- bad enough that they got added to 
the "legacy spam filters" definition.  Since I didn't add this, I'm 
rather loathe to remove it without approval from Barry.


	Barry?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Nov 24 17:04:59 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:04:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting alist)
In-Reply-To: <p0600205ebdca5d8716f1@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <PC1723200411240804590281435ace34@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 7:21 AM -0800 2004-11-24, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  Hold for "suspicious header" occurs because a header matched one of the
>>  regexps in bounce_matching_headers - see "legacy spam filters" in
>>  Privacy options...->Spam filters.
>
>	Ahh.  Found it.  Apparently, there have been major spam problems 
>in the past with ozemail.com.au -- bad enough that they got added to 
>the "legacy spam filters" definition.  Since I didn't add this, I'm 
>rather loathe to remove it without approval from Barry.

Remove it from what? The 2.1.5 default list is as follows (from
Defaults.py)

# {header-name: regexp} spam filtering - we include some for example
sake.
DEFAULT_BOUNCE_MATCHING_HEADERS = """
# Lines that *start* with a '#' are comments.
to: friend at public.com
message-id: relay.comanche.denmark.eu
from: list at listme.com
from: .*@uplinkpro.com
"""

It was the same in 2.1.4.

Or are you saying it is in the list for the mailman-users at python.org
list?

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 24 18:15:06 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:15:06 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting
 alist)
In-Reply-To: <PC1723200411240804590281435ace34@msapiro>
References: <PC1723200411240804590281435ace34@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002060bdca71ecdea2@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:04 AM -0800 2004-11-24, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  Or are you saying it is in the list for the mailman-users at python.org
>  list?

	That's what I meant by "Apparently, there have been major spam 
problems in the past with ozemail.com.au".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Nov 24 18:32:25 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 18:32:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting 
 alist)
In-Reply-To: <p06002060bdca71ecdea2@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <PC1723200411240804590281435ace34@msapiro>
	<p06002060bdca71ecdea2@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06002065bdca760bd5db@[10.0.1.3]>

At 6:15 PM +0100 2004-11-24, Brad Knowles wrote:

>>   Or are you saying it is in the list for the mailman-users at python.org
>>   list?
>
>  	That's what I meant by "Apparently, there have been major spam problems
>  in the past with ozemail.com.au".

	Anyway, this issue has been resolved.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From renae at rlindsay.net  Wed Nov 24 19:07:11 2004
From: renae at rlindsay.net (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Ren=E1e_Lindsay?=)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 10:07:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Need help with upgrading.
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1101319123.5303.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <200411241728.iAOHS8Z26557@www.rlindsay.net>

I had Mailman installed on my server by someone else (I know nothing about
using Unix Servers) but since then I've lost track of the person who did it
for me.  I need to have the software upgraded on my server and wonder if
anyone on the list is knowledgeable enough to undertake that task for me.

Needless to say, I run a very small business so the price needs to be
reasonable.  Thanks.

Renae



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Wed Nov 24 21:23:36 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 07:23:36 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Suspicious headers (was Deleting a  list)
In-Reply-To: <p0600205ebdca5d8716f1@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <PC1723200411240721250437703ecd8e@msapiro>
	<p0600205ebdca5d8716f1@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <p06002001bdca9e00e4f1@[203.53.37.182]>

>At 7:21 AM -0800 2004-11-24, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>>  Hold for "suspicious header" occurs because a header matched one of the
>>  regexps in bounce_matching_headers - see "legacy spam filters" in
>>  Privacy options...->Spam filters.
>
>	Ahh.  Found it.  Apparently, there have been major spam 
>problems in the past with ozemail.com.au -- bad enough that they got 
>added to the "legacy spam filters" definition.  Since I didn't add 
>this, I'm rather loathe to remove it without approval from Barry.
>
>	Barry?
>
Hi again,
	Yes, I have also complained to OzEmail about their spam 
problem. However, my mail actually comes from our own network 
(heard.com.au), which includes spam & virus filtering, so he only 
ozemail.com.au part of the headers is the actual email address.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From info at digital4u.de  Thu Nov 25 02:32:41 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:32:41 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <c7ef32a70411231702490e892f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000001c4d28e$a7a42d00$a701a8c0@alexmobil>

Thanks for your very detailed mail.  It made everything very clear.  Mailman
is still not running, but I have some more details:

I did a "su mailman" and ran check_perms and indeed I do get an error
message.  I ran check_perms -f before as root, reporting "no problems".

	kundenserver:/var/mailman # ./bin/check_perms
	No problems found
	kundenserver:/var/mailman # su mailman
	mailman at kundenserver:~> ./bin/check_perms
	Traceback (most recent call last):
	  File "./bin/check_perms", line 364, in ?
	    checkarchivedbs()
	  File "./bin/check_perms", line 226, in checkarchivedbs
	    for dir in os.listdir(mm_cfg.PRIVATE_ARCHIVE_FILE_DIR):
	OSError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/mailman/archives/private'
	mailman at kundenserver:~>

I created a -qmail-default in /var/mailman with the following content
"|/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/bin/python /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py".
Mails sent to the list stay in the qmail queue forever, so this doesn't work
for some reason.  In the "qmail-to-mailman.py" I added at the top of the
file the two configuration variables:

	MailmanHome = "/var/mailman"; 
	MailmanOwner = "postmaster at hockey.wthc.net";

I also did the following:

	Next, look for the line that looks like local =
re.sub("^mailman-","",local). Change it to read: "local =
re.sub("^hockey.wthc.net-","",local)"

While playing around I added -qmail-herren ("herren" is the name of my list)
with the following content: ""|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post herren", but
no success either.  I'll provide you with the exact procedure I followed in
order to install mailman now.  The only difference is that I did a "chown -R
mailman ." in "/var/mailman" while playing around, besides that this is 1:1
what I have.

Best regards, Alex

PS:  Below you'll see my installation process.  My domain is called
hockey.wthc.net, the list I am plaing around with "herren".  The mails
staying in the queue have "mailman-herren at hockey.wthc.net" as the recipient
when sending mails to "herren at hockey.wthc.net".

	useradd -d /var/mailman mailman
	groupadd mailman
	mkdir /var/mailman
	chgrp mailman /var/mailman
	chmod a+rx,g+ws /var/mailman

	cd /usr/local/src/mailman
	tar zxvpf mailman-2.1.5.tgz
	cd mailman-2.1.5

	./configure --prefix=/var/mailman \
	            --with-mail-gid=mailman \
	            --with-cgi-gid=nobody \
	            --with-cgi-ext=.cgi \
	            --with-python=/usr/bin/python

	make install
	cd /var/mailman 
	./bin/check_perms
	./bin/check_perms -f
	./bin/check_perms

	Edit /var/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py. Add the following lines to the
end of the file:
	DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'hockey.wthc.net'
	DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'hockey.wthc.net'
	add_virtualhost('hockey.wthc.net', 'hockey.wthc.net')
	ALLOW_SITE_ADMIN_COOKIES = 1

	Set a password for list creation:
	cd /var/mailman
	./bin/mmsitepass

	From the Mailman source directory, copy the qmail-to-mailman.py
script into the mailman directory:
	cp /usr/local/src/mailman/mailman-2.1.5/contrib/qmail-to-mailman.py
/var/mailman
	chown mailman.mailman /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py
	chmod a+rx /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py

	Edit qmail-to-mailman.py. At the top of the file, edit the two
configuration variables:
	MailmanHome = "/var/mailman"; 
	MailmanOwner = "postmaster at hockey.wthc.net";

	Next, look for the line that looks like local =
re.sub("^mailman-","",local). Change it to read: 
	local = re.sub("^hockey.wthc.net-","",local)

	cd /var/mailman
	./bin/newlist mailman
	./bin/config_list -i data/sitelist.cfg mailman
	/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

	Put in links so that the daemons will be started when the system is
booted up:
	cp /var/mailman/scripts/mailman /etc/init.d/mailman
	ln -sf /etc/init.d/mailman /etc/init.d/rc3.d/S97mailman
	ln -sf /etc/init.d/mailman /etc/init.d/rc2.d/K97mailman

	And lastly, set up cron jobs for Mailman maintenance: 
	crontab /var/mailman/cron/crontab.in -u mailman

	Qmail Configuration
	cd /var/mailman
	touch .qmail-default

	Add to .qmail-default:
	|/var/qmail/bin/preline /usr/bin/python
/var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py


	I've added hockey.wthc.net:mailman to
/var/qmail/control/virtualdomains

	After all this I restarted qmail and qrunner...



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Tierra [mailto:etierra at gmail.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. November 2004 02:03
An: DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm
Cc: Mark Sapiro; mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
withqmail/vpopmail


On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 01:38:07 +0100, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm
<info at digital4u.de> wrote:
> 1. I re-configured mailman with "--with-mail-gid=vchkpw".  Here I am
> not sure what would be correct and how this influences the
> installation/system. So what should I use there mailman or vchkpw???

Your actually going to want "--with-mail-gid=mailman" with your setup. None
of the mailman stuff goes through vpopmail. You don't even need to setup a
domain with vadddomain, so you'll probably want to vdeldomain. When you put
"list.mydomain.tld:mailman" in virtualdomains file in qmail, your telling
qmail to send all mail that goes to that domain to the local user "mailman",
unlike your other vpopmail domains which should look like
"virtual.com:virtual.com" - meaning send to vpopmail to handle. So vpopmail
has nothing to do with mailman/qmail. So the reason your going to want to
configure with the mailman gid is so mailman has access to the mail being
delivered to the mailman user instead of if you were handling lists on
virtual domains setup in vpopmail (which is a pain with qmail), where you
would need to configure with vpopmail actually, not vchkpwd (I think
anyway). This is the reason setting up with lists.mydomain.tld instead of
just mydomain.tld is so much easier.

> 2. I know created a "/home/vpopmail/domains/mailman" for my .qmail
> files. Before I either created
> /home/vpopmail/domains/mylist.domain.tld or droped a .qmail file
> directly into /var/mailman.  What is correct here?

Again, get rid of all entries of lists.mydomain.tld in vpopmail, you won't
need them. You will need the .qmail-default file in the mailman user's home
directory (which like I mentioned before might be elsewhere from
/home/mailman).

> 3. Putting "|/usr/bin/python /var/mailman/qmail-to-mailman.py" in
> either ".qmail-default" or ".qmail-mylist" doesn't work.  What works
> is putting "|/var/mailman/mail/mailman post mylist" into
> .qmail-mylist, but it would be impossible to add for each list all
> those aliases.  What am I doing wrong? Is there maybe something wrong
> with my "qmail-to-mailman.py"-file?

There's two ways to doing this. The first is using the script provided
inline with the README.QMAIL file to generate those .qmail-mylist-* files,
and doing that for EVERY list. The second, is creating a .qmail-default file
that has runs the qmail-to-mailman.py script which parses everything and
sends it where it needs to go. It also handles any new lists you create as
well. That's the reason it's the highly suggested route.

It sounds like you either have the wrong path to the qmail-to-mailman
script, or the permissions are messed up (check my first note). Another
thing you need to check is "su mailman" and run bin/check_perms script to
make sure mailman has all the access it needs.

> 4. Also, but not as important, I am already wondering why there is
> always a text file attached to each message  (something like
> ATT00111.txt). This file contains the listname, lists email address
> and the web link.  Why is that?

Umm, other people know more about that than I do on the list, I'll let
someone else answer that.

Bryan Petty

P.S. Can you use the "Reply-To-All" feature of your mail client so
everything stays in the same thread?


From macangels at spamcop.net  Thu Nov 25 03:26:46 2004
From: macangels at spamcop.net (demo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:26:46 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <20041124110046.0474E1E404E@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <BDCAF366.431E%macangels@spamcop.net>

Just to say that this actually does not work for Apple's OS X Server version
2.1.2 of Mailman ... Good heavens!

It does somethings but I am not sure if it is my shortcomings or the
proprietary version's.


Adding; OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes to

/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py

Adds a new link to the General Options admin page that links to a new page;

http://yourdomain.com/mailman/rmlist/mailing

That offers you to delete the list and archive. [ n.b deleting a list in the
Apple GUI does *not* delete the archive ].

However, doing so brings up a bug report as below and deleting it via the
button does *not* delete the list;

In fact, I think the inclusion of that line screws up the install a bit,
although I am not asking for help here - only feeding back.

Doing so, I just tried this on a totally virgin OS X Server install, also
adds a new line that says, " If you have the proper authority,  you can also
create a new mailing list. " on the general list Admin page [
http://yourdomain.com/mailman/admin ].

Again, this looks like it might work but throws up a similar bug report.

*However*, 

it *does* create a List in the GUI *and* web interface. Is there another
line I ought to have written out to make this work? [ will check the FAQs
later but it is 2 am here and I have to time out ...

If anyone is interested in the second bug report I could post it ... I guess
it might be hackable.

The archives [ /var/mailman/archives/public  ] are created but not deleted
either way. 

This seems to be a bit of Apple weirdness for some reason. You seem to have
to go in there are manually exorcise them.


MA



<quote>


We're sorry, we hit a bug!

If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
happened. Thanks!

 Traceback:


Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
    main()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py", line 91, in main
    process_request(doc, cgidata, mlist)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py", line 126, in
process_request
    sys.modules[modname].remove(mlist, cgi=1)
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 296, in remove
    _update_maps()
  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
/private/var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)




Python information:

Variable
Value

sys.version
 2.3 (#1, Sep 13 2003, 00:49:11) [GCC 3.3 20030304 (Apple Computer, Inc.
build 1495)]

 sys.executable
 /usr/bin/python

 sys.prefix
 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3

 sys.exec_prefix
 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3

 sys.path
 /System/Library/Frameworks/Python.framework/Versions/2.3

 sys.platform
 darwin

 Environment variables:

Variable
Value

 HTTP_REFERER
 http://yourdomain.com/mailman/rmlist/mailing

 SERVER_SOFTWARE
 Apache/1.3.29 (Darwin) PHP/4.3.2

 SCRIPT_NAME
 /mailman/rmlist

 SERVER_SIGNATURE
 Apache/1.3.29 Server at yourdomain.com Port 16080

 REQUEST_METHOD
 POST

 PATH_INFO
 /mailing

 SERVER_PROTOCOL
 HTTP/1.1

 QUERY_STRING

 CONTENT_LENGTH
 53

 HTTP_USER_AGENT
 Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/125.5.5 (KHTML,
like Gecko) Safari/125.11

 HTTP_CONNECTION
 close

 HTTP_COOKIE
 mailing+admin=280200000069ea3ba54173280000006665306131373262626235356539633
4373031663964303933643234356532653636376530356230

 SERVER_NAME
 yourdomain.com

 REMOTE_ADDR
 192.168.1.2

 HTTP_PC_REMOTE_ADDR
 212.18.232.35

 PATH_TRANSLATED
 /Library/WebServer/Documents/mailing

 SERVER_PORT
 16080

 SERVER_ADDR
 192.168.1.2

 DOCUMENT_ROOT
 /Library/WebServer/Documents

 PYTHONPATH
 /usr/share/mailman

 SCRIPT_FILENAME
 /usr/share/mailman/cgi-bin/rmlist

 SERVER_ADMIN
 admin at example.com

 SCRIPT_URI
 http://yourdomain.com:16080/mailman/rmlist/mailing

 HTTP_HOST
 yourdomain.com

 SCRIPT_URL
 /mailman/rmlist/mailing

 REQUEST_URI
 /mailman/rmlist/mailing

 HTTP_ACCEPT
 */*

 GATEWAY_INTERFACE
 CGI/1.1

 REMOTE_PORT
 54413

 HTTP_ACCEPT_LANGUAGE
 en-us, ja;q=0.57, ja-jp;q=0.71, en;q=0.86, fr;q=0.43, de-de;q=0.29,
de;q=0.14

 __CF_USER_TEXT_ENCODING
 0x46:0:0

 CONTENT_TYPE
 application/x-www-form-urlencoded

 HTTP_ACCEPT_ENCODING
 gzip, deflate;q=1.0, identity;q=0.5, *;q=0


</quote>





From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 25 04:43:00 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 19:43:00 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <BDCAF366.431E%macangels@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <PC172320041124194300037551f55cb7@msapiro>

demo wrote:

>Just to say that this actually does not work for Apple's OS X Server version
>2.1.2 of Mailman ... Good heavens!
>
>It does somethings but I am not sure if it is my shortcomings or the
>proprietary version's.
>
>
>Adding; OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes to
>
>/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>
>Adds a new link to the General Options admin page that links to a new page;
>
>http://yourdomain.com/mailman/rmlist/mailing
>
>That offers you to delete the list and archive. [ n.b deleting a list in the
>Apple GUI does *not* delete the archive ].


That's exactly what it should do.


>However, doing so brings up a bug report as below and deleting it via the
>button does *not* delete the list;


See remarks below.


>In fact, I think the inclusion of that line screws up the install a bit,
>although I am not asking for help here - only feeding back.
>
>Doing so, I just tried this on a totally virgin OS X Server install, also
>adds a new line that says, " If you have the proper authority,  you can also
>create a new mailing list. " on the general list Admin page [
>http://yourdomain.com/mailman/admin ].


In a standard Mailman, this line is always on that page. It is not
dependant on OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS. Only the web delete
list function depends on this option in a standard Mailman.


>Again, this looks like it might work but throws up a similar bug report.
>
>*However*, 
>
>it *does* create a List in the GUI *and* web interface. Is there another
>line I ought to have written out to make this work? [ will check the FAQs
>later but it is 2 am here and I have to time out ...
>
>If anyone is interested in the second bug report I could post it ... I guess
>it might be hackable.
>
>The archives [ /var/mailman/archives/public  ] are created but not deleted
>either way. 
>
>This seems to be a bit of Apple weirdness for some reason. You seem to have
>to go in there are manually exorcise them.
>
>
>MA
>
>
>
><quote>
>
>
>We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>
>If you would like to help us identify the problem, please email a copy of
>this page to the webmaster for this site with a description of what
>happened. Thanks!
>
> Traceback:
>
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/scripts/driver", line 87, in run_main
>    main()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py", line 91, in main
>    process_request(doc, cgidata, mlist)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/rmlist.py", line 126, in
>process_request
>    sys.modules[modname].remove(mlist, cgi=1)
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 296, in remove
>    _update_maps()
>  File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/MTA/Postfix.py", line 53, in _update_maps
>    raise RuntimeError, msg % (acmd, status, errstr)
>RuntimeError: command failed: /usr/sbin/postalias
>/private/var/mailman/data/aliases (status: 1, Operation not permitted)
>

Mailman is trying to remove the aliases for the deleted list. It has
removed the aliases from the text file
/private/var/mailman/data/aliases and is then trying to invoke the
command

/usr/sbin/postalias /private/var/mailman/data/aliases

to update the actual alias database. For some reason, the OS is not
allowing this (status: 1, Operation not permitted).

It encounters this error before actually deleting the list and it's
archives, so none of this happens (but it has deleted the aliases from
the text file).

Is /usr/sbin/postalias the correct command? If not, it is set as

  POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'

in Defaults.py and can be changed in mm_cfg.py. If it is the correct
command, then maybe it's a permissions issue.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net  Thu Nov 25 06:11:05 2004
From: SpeedyGonzalis at softhome.net (Speedy Gonzalis)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 00:11:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Prevent Web Subscription Confirmation?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20041125000430.0ac9bc08@pop3.direcway.com>

In ver 2.1.4 I want to prevent subscription confirmation via the web.  Subscribing via the web is fine, but not confirmation.  Allowing this lets people/IPs black listed at server level in postfix to go around my spam /security system.  

Any help appreciated.

Tim



From macangels at spamcop.net  Thu Nov 25 11:34:07 2004
From: macangels at spamcop.net (demo)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:34:07 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <PC172320041124194300037551f55cb7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <BDCB659F.4344%macangels@spamcop.net>

Hi

re;

> OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
 
> It encounters this error before actually deleting the list and it's
> archives, so none of this happens (but it has deleted the aliases from
> the text file).
> 
> Is /usr/sbin/postalias the correct command? If not, it is set as
> 
>   POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'

It seems that there is a '/usr/sbin/postalias'.


OK, so the GUI uses over-riding permissions, perhaps system over mailman, do
you think it is worth stripping the Mac OS X Mailman to bits and checking it
file for file permissions so see what is going on in there ?

It will take me some time to put together a non-Mac OS version to compare -
unless someone has one online.

Thanks,

MA




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 25 11:54:45 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:54:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <BDCB659F.4344%macangels@spamcop.net>
References: <BDCB659F.4344%macangels@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <p06002005bdcb6a1ef1f3@[10.0.1.3]>

At 10:34 AM +0000 2004-11-25, demo wrote:

>  OK, so the GUI uses over-riding permissions, perhaps system over mailman, do
>  you think it is worth stripping the Mac OS X Mailman to bits and checking it
>  file for file permissions so see what is going on in there ?

	You could try running "Disk Utility" and having it do a "Repair 
Permissions" on the MacOS X Server system disk.

	Otherwise, I fear that your only course of action is to figure 
out how to fix the problem yourself, or to rely on support from Apple.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From htian at ias.edu  Thu Nov 25 16:10:04 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:10:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664D9@PICO>

Hi,

There were two mailing lists of lista and listb on the Mailman server. I
created a new mailing list named listc by subscribing lista and listb as the
only two members of listc. When I posted to listc by a member of lista, the
mail was being held until the list moderator can reviewed it for approval.
The reason it was being held: Post by non-member to a members-only list. 

My question: 
Is it possible to subscribe another list as a member of the current list
with Mailman?

Thanks for your help!
Hong



From relson at osagesoftware.com  Thu Nov 25 16:34:17 2004
From: relson at osagesoftware.com (David Relson)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:34:17 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664D9@PICO>
References: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664D9@PICO>
Message-ID: <20041125103417.3fdf0cd4@osage.osagesoftware.com>

On Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:10:04 -0500
Hong Jiang Tian wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> There were two mailing lists of lista and listb on the Mailman server.
> I created a new mailing list named listc by subscribing lista and
> listb as the only two members of listc. When I posted to listc by a
> member of lista, the mail was being held until the list moderator can
> reviewed it for approval. The reason it was being held: Post by
> non-member to a members-only list. 
> 
> My question: 
> Is it possible to subscribe another list as a member of the current
> list with Mailman?
> 
> Thanks for your help!
> Hong

To add to this, I have 3 lists (announce, users, and developers). 
Announce is a moderated list and the other two are subscribers
only and unmoderated.  The announce list is only used for new releases
and those notices should go to everyone, i.e. all the lists.

What I'd been doing is sending announcements to all 3 lists, but thought
it would be much more elegant to do as Hong wants, so messages to
announce are automatically forwarded to users and developers.  I, too,
ran into the "Post by non-member ..." problem.  When I "accepted" the
messages they went out, which is how I found out about "gotcha" number
2.  Replies went to the announce list (rather than the user or developer
lists), hence needed moderation.  At the moment it looks like a nasty
tangle.

As Hong says, it'd be useful to have a forwarding mechanism which
doesn't generate moderator requests and that has replies going to the
final list.

In the meantime, I'm finding mailman a great tool and using my
workaround, i.e. "CC: users; developers".

Keep up the good work!

David


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 25 17:12:36 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:12:36 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664D9@PICO>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112508123602341a91638e@msapiro>

Hong Jiang Tian wrote:
>
>There were two mailing lists of lista and listb on the Mailman server. I
>created a new mailing list named listc by subscribing lista and listb as the
>only two members of listc. When I posted to listc by a member of lista, the
>mail was being held until the list moderator can reviewed it for approval.
>The reason it was being held: Post by non-member to a members-only list. 
>
>My question: 
>Is it possible to subscribe another list as a member of the current list
>with Mailman?

Not so that members of the sub-list can post to the "umbrella" list.
but see

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

article 3.5 for one possible work around.

Also, Jim Tittsler developed a patch which allows a list name to be
added to the list of non-members allowed to post, which can be used to
allow members of a sub-list to post to the "umbrella" list. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From htian at ias.edu  Thu Nov 25 17:21:47 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:21:47 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664E5@PICO>

Thanks very much for your help!

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Thu, November 25, 2004 11:13 AM
To: Hong Jiang Tian; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member


Hong Jiang Tian wrote:
>
>There were two mailing lists of lista and listb on the Mailman server. I
>created a new mailing list named listc by subscribing lista and listb as
the
>only two members of listc. When I posted to listc by a member of lista, the
>mail was being held until the list moderator can reviewed it for approval.
>The reason it was being held: Post by non-member to a members-only list. 
>
>My question: 
>Is it possible to subscribe another list as a member of the current list
>with Mailman?

Not so that members of the sub-list can post to the "umbrella" list.
but see

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

article 3.5 for one possible work around.

Also, Jim Tittsler developed a patch which allows a list name to be
added to the list of non-members allowed to post, which can be used to
allow members of a sub-list to post to the "umbrella" list. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 25 17:29:41 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 08:29:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
In-Reply-To: <20041125103417.3fdf0cd4@osage.osagesoftware.com>
Message-ID: <PC1723200411250829410625380b231a@msapiro>

David Relson wrote:
>
>To add to this, I have 3 lists (announce, users, and developers). 
>Announce is a moderated list and the other two are subscribers
>only and unmoderated.  The announce list is only used for new releases
>and those notices should go to everyone, i.e. all the lists.
>
>What I'd been doing is sending announcements to all 3 lists, but thought
>it would be much more elegant to do as Hong wants, so messages to
>announce are automatically forwarded to users and developers.  I, too,
>ran into the "Post by non-member ..." problem.  When I "accepted" the
>messages they went out, which is how I found out about "gotcha" number
>2.  Replies went to the announce list (rather than the user or developer
>lists), hence needed moderation.  At the moment it looks like a nasty
>tangle.
>
>As Hong says, it'd be useful to have a forwarding mechanism which
>doesn't generate moderator requests and that has replies going to the
>final list.

If you use Jim Tittsler's patch
(http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion) that I
mentioned in my reply to Hong, that solves gotcha #1, although it's
not clear to me why you want this since the announce list is moderated
anyway.

Then you could enable full personalization on the announce list only.
Since it's low volume, the performance hit shouldn't have much impact.
Then posts to the announce list that wind up on the users or
developers lists will be addressed to those respective lists so a
"reply all" by a "user" would go to the users list and similarly for
developers.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 25 18:26:57 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 09:26:57 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Prevent Web Subscription Confirmation?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20041125000430.0ac9bc08@pop3.direcway.com>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112509265700000cb10fb9@msapiro>

Speedy Gonzalis wrote:

>In ver 2.1.4 I want to prevent subscription confirmation via the web.  Subscribing via the web is fine, but not confirmation.  Allowing this lets people/IPs black listed at server level in postfix to go around my spam /security system.  

You could always modify the verify.txt template to remove the link and
the reference to it.

>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

See FAQ article 4.48 for information on changing templates on a per
list, per domain or site wide basis.

Note that this solution is not really secure as a knowledgable user
could construct the proper URI from the confirm command that is
included in the message. You could securely eliminate all web
confirmations for subscribe, unsubscribe and address change site wide
by just deleting the cgi-bin/confirm wrapper or changing its
permissions so it couldn't be run. If this is too big a hammer, you'd
need to hack the code in Mailman/Cgi/confirm.py for a finer solution.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Nov 25 19:27:34 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 19:27:34 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] subscribe another list as a member
In-Reply-To: <PC1723200411250829410625380b231a@msapiro>
References: <PC1723200411250829410625380b231a@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p0600200dbdcbd43ad074@[10.0.1.3]>

At 8:29 AM -0800 2004-11-25, Mark Sapiro wrote:

>  If you use Jim Tittsler's patch
>  (http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion) that I
>  mentioned in my reply to Hong, that solves gotcha #1, although it's
>  not clear to me why you want this since the announce list is moderated
>  anyway.

	Hmm.  We need to get Jim to submit this patch via the Mailman 
SourceForge Patch tracker at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=300103>, so that 
this can get considered for inclusion in upcoming versions.  Then we 
can also link this to existing RFEs that would be resolved by this 
patch.


	Jim?

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Nov 25 20:22:43 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 11:22:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Re: Deleting a list - Mac OS X
In-Reply-To: <BDCB659F.4344%macangels@spamcop.net>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112511224303902c296fd1@msapiro>

demo wrote:
>
>re;
>
>> OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
> 
>> It encounters this error before actually deleting the list and it's
>> archives, so none of this happens (but it has deleted the aliases from
>> the text file).
>> 
>> Is /usr/sbin/postalias the correct command? If not, it is set as
>> 
>>   POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
>
>It seems that there is a '/usr/sbin/postalias'.
>
>
>OK, so the GUI uses over-riding permissions, perhaps system over mailman, do
>you think it is worth stripping the Mac OS X Mailman to bits and checking it
>file for file permissions so see what is going on in there ?

Do you have the command line tools in Mailman's bin directory. If so,
bin/check_perms is the tool for checking permissions.

However, the issue here is not really Mailman per se. It is in that
grey area between Mailman and Postfix and only involves the
data/aliases and data/aliases.db files. From the README.POSTFIX in
standard Mailman:

      Make sure that the owner of the data/aliases and data/aliases.db
      file is `mailman' and that the group owner for those files is
      `mailman'.  E.g.:

      % su
      % chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Thu Nov 25 22:54:09 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:54:09 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors in Mailman
Message-ID: <p06002001bdcc01c640dc@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi again,
	I have Mailman best part running, but there are a few odd 
errors & I have a few short questions relating to those if someone 
wouldn't mind replying to them.

1 - If I make a change to mm_cfg.py, to refresh the config, is it 
sufficient to from the command line simply run bin/mailmanctl reload

2 - In my Postfix logs, this appeared - fatal: open 
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied - could someone 
let me know what permissions should be applied to this.

3 - If I create a list from the command line, I am successful in 
creating the list - however, if I try to create a list from the web 
interface, I get this error: Error: Unknown virtual host: 
heard.com.au - now, in mm_cfg.py, I have the following lines:
DEFAULT_URL = 'http://heard.com.au/mailman/'
OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
add_virtualhost = ( 'heard.com.au' , 'heard.com.au' )
Could anyone suggest where I have gone wrong please - my web 
interface was working at first, but obviously something I have 
changed has stuffed up.

	Many thanks.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 26 00:03:40 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 15:03:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <p06002001bdcc01c640dc@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112515034001095a87a335@msapiro>

Terry Allen <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>1 - If I make a change to mm_cfg.py, to refresh the config, is it 
>sufficient to from the command line simply run bin/mailmanctl reload

  bin/mailmanctl restart

(not reload)

>2 - In my Postfix logs, this appeared - fatal: open 
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied - could someone 
>let me know what permissions should be applied to this.

I don't know for sure. README.POSTFIX says owner and group should be
the mailman user and group, but doesn't mention permissions. It
appears that bin/genaliases creates these files with permissions
rw-rw-r--.

>3 - If I create a list from the command line, I am successful in 
>creating the list - however, if I try to create a list from the web 
>interface, I get this error: Error: Unknown virtual host: 
>heard.com.au - now, in mm_cfg.py, I have the following lines:
>DEFAULT_URL = 'http://heard.com.au/mailman/'
>OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
>add_virtualhost = ( 'heard.com.au' , 'heard.com.au' )
>Could anyone suggest where I have gone wrong please - my web 
>interface was working at first, but obviously something I have 
>changed has stuffed up.

This is telling you that 'heard.com.au' is not a key in the
VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. Your add_virtualhost line is wrong. It
should be

add_virtualhost('heard.com.au', 'heard.com.au')

No "=".

Also, DEFAULT_URL is obsolete. You should be using DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.
This should be OK from Defaults.py -

  DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'

Also, use DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. If these are correct
in Defaults.py, i.e. both = 'heard.com.au', then the only thing of the
above you need in mm_cfg.py is

  OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes

If these are not correct in Defaults.py, then, in addition, you need in
mm_cfg.py

  DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'heard.com.au'
  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'heard.com.au'
  VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rodd at ahrenstorff.us  Fri Nov 26 04:40:47 2004
From: rodd at ahrenstorff.us (Rodd Ahrenstorff)
Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 20:40:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Here is a how-to for Mailman and ClarkConnect
Message-ID: <20041126034048.689712082AD@bitsy.ahrenstorff.us>

I've put together a step-by-step installation of Mailman 2.1.5 on
ClarkConnect 2.2 server from source.  ClarkConnect works great for small
server needs and provides initial security for newbies. 

 

Link here: http://www.bhlug.org/links.html.  Also, follow the SSL
certificate how-to on the same page.

 

Hope it's useful.

 

Rodd Ahrenstorff



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Fri Nov 26 05:03:24 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:03:24 +1100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Errors in Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC17232004112515034001095a87a335@msapiro>
References: <PC17232004112515034001095a87a335@msapiro>
Message-ID: <p06002002bdcc2ebbe577@[203.53.37.182]>

>Terry Allen <hmag at ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>>
>>1 - If I make a change to mm_cfg.py, to refresh the config, is it
>>sufficient to from the command line simply run bin/mailmanctl reload
>
>   bin/mailmanctl restart
>
>(not reload)
>
>>2 - In my Postfix logs, this appeared - fatal: open
>>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db: Permission denied - could someone
>>let me know what permissions should be applied to this.
>
>I don't know for sure. README.POSTFIX says owner and group should be
>the mailman user and group, but doesn't mention permissions. It
>appears that bin/genaliases creates these files with permissions
>rw-rw-r--.
>
>>3 - If I create a list from the command line, I am successful in
>>creating the list - however, if I try to create a list from the web
>>interface, I get this error: Error: Unknown virtual host:
>>heard.com.au - now, in mm_cfg.py, I have the following lines:
>>DEFAULT_URL = 'http://heard.com.au/mailman/'
>>OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
>>add_virtualhost = ( 'heard.com.au' , 'heard.com.au' )
>>Could anyone suggest where I have gone wrong please - my web
>>interface was working at first, but obviously something I have
>>changed has stuffed up.
>
>This is telling you that 'heard.com.au' is not a key in the
>VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary. Your add_virtualhost line is wrong. It
>should be
>
>add_virtualhost('heard.com.au', 'heard.com.au')
>
>No "=".
>
>Also, DEFAULT_URL is obsolete. You should be using DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.
>This should be OK from Defaults.py -
>
>   DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'http://%s/mailman/'
>
>Also, use DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST. If these are correct
>in Defaults.py, i.e. both = 'heard.com.au', then the only thing of the
>above you need in mm_cfg.py is
>
>   OWNERS_CAN_DELETE_THEIR_OWN_LISTS = Yes
>
>If these are not correct in Defaults.py, then, in addition, you need in
>mm_cfg.py
>
>   DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'heard.com.au'
>   DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'heard.com.au'
>   VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
>   add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>
Hi again,
	Many thanks for the reply there. The settings in my 
Defaults.py had picked up the hostname, so I set it to the correct 
name & everything's working now, including delete.
	Regarding the permissions for aliases.db, chmod 664 has done 
the trick. I think the issue that as posted a day or so ago regarding 
being unable to delete a list using the web interface on OSX Server 
is the incorrect permissions for that file as I had the same error 
until I had changed the permissions for that file.
	Thanks again for the reply.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From info at digital4u.de  Fri Nov 26 13:43:40 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:43:40 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
	qmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <41A719A2.3020103@mail.jordi.com>
Message-ID: <005a01c4d3b5$917baf80$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

Hi Jordi, hi List,

Thanks for your input and I am really happy about every input, but this also
shows, why so mayn people have problems with mailman and struggling to get
it up and running.

If you have followed the answers Bryan Petty (Tierra) has given, he told me
to use-mail-gid= mailman and NOT vchkpw also I should not create a virtual
domain, now you tell me I should.

What should I believe now being a novice???   I'll sure give you way a try,
even so I don't like the idea of having to run a script each time I add a
list.  This means an admin has to be involved each time a list is created.
It's also another potential place for errors.

Bryan, what do you say about this?  I believe qmail/vpopmail is a pretty
wide spreaded configuration by now and I don't understand why the creators
of mailman can't just say, that's the way to go, fullstop!

Best regards,

Alex



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Jordi Local [mailto:jgil at mail.jordi.com] 
Gesendet: Freitag, 26. November 2004 12:55
An: info at digital4u.de
Betreff: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
qmail/vpopmail


you should create your alias at the directory 
/home/vpopmail/domains/your.domain.com/
executing the script #./create_alias "list_name"
the content of the create_alias script is:

#!/bin/sh
if [ $# = 1 ]; then
i=$1
echo Making links to $i...
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post $i" > .qmail-$i echo
"|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman admin $i" > .qmail-$i-admin echo
"|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" > 
.qmail-$i-bounces
#VERP format
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman bounces $i" > 
.qmail-$i-bounces-default
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman confirm $i" > 
.qmail-$i-confirm
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman join $i" > .qmail-$i-join
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman leave $i" > .qmail-$i-leave
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman owner $i" > .qmail-$i-owner
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman request $i" > 
.qmail-$i-request
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe $i" > 
.qmail-$i-subscribe
echo "|preline /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman unsubsrcibe $i" > 
.qmail-$i-unsubscribe
fi

and you also should configure the mailman setup with this options: 
*./configure --prefix=/usr/local/mailman --with-mail-gid=vchkpw 
?with-cgi-gid=apache ?with-python=/usr/bin/python
*I think that with this it would be enough, and hope this would be enough.
One question I have a problem with the 2.1.5 version because it doesn't 
advise the list owner of bounces and e-mail adreses mailman deletes 
automatically, If you get any solution I would be very pleased if you 
send it to me.





From gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk  Fri Nov 26 16:19:12 2004
From: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Smith)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:19:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman's Mailbox
Message-ID: <20041126151912.33592.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi.
 
I don't know much about the techinical stuff behind mailman (I dont have console access, only through the Cpanel software) and I was wondering, how does Mailman know that it has an email, i.e. when someone tries to post to the list. 
 
By that I mean I know I have an email because I download my inbox on to my computer, but does Mailman constantly do this, if it does would'nt it cause a strain on the server? 
 
Hope my question makes sense, thanks in advance for answering.
 
Gary Smith



Gary Smith 

E-mail: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk 

Website: www.greatcrap.com

		
---------------------------------
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Nov 26 17:29:45 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:29:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman's Mailbox
In-Reply-To: <20041126151912.33592.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20041126151912.33592.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06002012bdcd09c95e73@[10.0.1.3]>

At 3:19 PM +0000 2004-11-26, Gary Smith wrote:

>  By that I mean I know I have an email because I download my inbox on to
>  my computer, but does Mailman constantly do this, if it does would'nt it
>  cause a strain on the server?

	Mailman doesn't have a "mailbox", per se.  When the MTA (e.g., 
sendmail, postfix, exim, etc...) receives a message for a 
mailman-hosted mailing list or other mailman-related address, the MTA 
hands that message off to the Mailman code, and does so immediately. 
These messages never get stored in a mailbox for Mailman to 
periodically check.

	It might actually help improve scalability if Mailman did 
periodically check a mailbox (e.g., using POP3 or whatever), but that 
would cause significant additional code to be added to the system, 
and it's not clear exactly how that would be implemented.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 26 18:16:20 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:16:20 -0800
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <005a01c4d3b5$917baf80$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112609162006876d73ce83@msapiro>

DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:
>
>Bryan, what do you say about this?  I believe qmail/vpopmail is a pretty
>wide spreaded configuration by now and I don't understand why the creators
>of mailman can't just say, that's the way to go, fullstop!

Mailman would not be what it is today nor would it have nearly the user
base to provide help, fixes and development if it were restricted to
working with a single MTA (or a single web server or a single OS
environment or a single anything else you can think of).

Granted, flexibility always comes with a price, but the inverse of that
is Micro$oft's philosophy of "you don't have to think or know anything
- trust us and we'll make everything work for you - just buy all our
products".

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 26 18:23:41 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 09:23:41 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] 2.1.5 bounce notifications (was Unable to get Mailman
	up and running withqmail/vpopmail)
In-Reply-To: <005a01c4d3b5$917baf80$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112609234105786d73ce2b@msapiro>

Jordi Local wrote off list:

>One question I have a problem with the 2.1.5 version because it doesn't 
>advise the list owner of bounces and e-mail adreses mailman deletes 
>automatically, If you get any solution I would be very pleased if you 
>send it to me.

Sure it does. Check your list settings in the Notifications section of
the admin Bounce processing page.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Fri Nov 26 22:02:08 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:02:08 +1100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running with
	qmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <005a01c4d3b5$917baf80$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
References: <005a01c4d3b5$917baf80$0b01a8c0@alexhome>
Message-ID: <p06002000bdcd46d2d76d@[203.53.37.182]>

>
>Bryan, what do you say about this?  I believe qmail/vpopmail is a pretty
>wide spreaded configuration by now and I don't understand why the creators
>of mailman can't just say, that's the way to go, fullstop!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Alex
Hi again,
	While it would be excellent to have everyone using the same, 
it's just never going to happen. Yes, qmail/vpopmail is relatively 
popular, but not even close to the extent of sendmail usage & also 
not close to Postfix either. Exim is also a popular choice, as are 
Courier-MTA & Communigate Pro along with qmail & a pile of others, so 
it's best to allow Mailman the extent of running with any mail server 
you care to run, depending on your configuration.
	The other problem developers also face is that people running 
a particular OS & MTA, such as your choice of qmail is that there are 
a myriad of configuration options for that, using different paths for 
directories & so on, such as the option of running Mailman in any 
directory so chosen, so I believe Mailman developers have don the 
best they can with what they have to work with.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From nospam at rtcw.com.fr  Fri Nov 26 22:38:33 2004
From: nospam at rtcw.com.fr (Sylvain)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 22:38:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
Message-ID: <20041126213833.GE1634@tosh>

Hi!

I'm new on this list, and sorry if my english sound funny but I'm french
and my english is far to be perfect ;)

I plan to use Mailman to set up a Newsletter system. I'll have to define
2 or 3 differents Newsletters. I'm able to use Mailman as his first
function, a powerfull mailing list system :)

I've check the FAQ
(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.11)
but I have some questions.

I'm running Mailman version 2.1.4 (taken from backports.org) on a Debian
Woody.

1/ I've created a list with the command "newlist mynewsletter"
2/ I've copy and paste the aliases block in my /etc/aliases and ran
   newaliases
3/ Once my list is created, what email address will I have to use to
   register on the Newsletter ? With what subject ? When I'll got it
   running, I'll create a form on my website to subscribe/unsubscribe on
   the newsletter.

Actually, when I send an email on mynewsletter at list.mydomain.com with
the
subject "subscribe", I see the mail arriving on my server through
Postfix logs but I don't receive any confirmation mail back and no new
entry in the Membership List.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Sylvain

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Nov 26 22:56:02 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 13:56:02 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <20041126213833.GE1634@tosh>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112613560200629ebedcc0@msapiro>

Sylvain wrote:
>
>I plan to use Mailman to set up a Newsletter system. I'll have to define
>2 or 3 differents Newsletters. I'm able to use Mailman as his first
>function, a powerfull mailing list system :)
>
>I've check the FAQ
>(http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=all#3.11)
>but I have some questions.

Thanks for checking the FAQ first.

>I'm running Mailman version 2.1.4 (taken from backports.org) on a Debian
>Woody.
>
>1/ I've created a list with the command "newlist mynewsletter"
>2/ I've copy and paste the aliases block in my /etc/aliases and ran
>   newaliases
>3/ Once my list is created, what email address will I have to use to
>   register on the Newsletter ? With what subject ? When I'll got it
>   running, I'll create a form on my website to subscribe/unsubscribe on
>   the newsletter.
>
>Actually, when I send an email on mynewsletter at list.mydomain.com with
>the
>subject "subscribe", I see the mail arriving on my server through
>Postfix logs but I don't receive any confirmation mail back and no new
>entry in the Membership List.

To subscribe via e-mail send "blank" e-mail to
mynewsletter-join at list.mydomain.com or to
mynewsletter-subscribe at list.mydomain.com or send e-mail eith subject
"subscribe" to mynewsletter-request at list.mydomain.com.

mynewsletter at list.mydomain.com is the posting address of the list, i.e.
the address to which you send to have the mail resent to all the list
members. Since your list has no members yet, this mail is essentially
ignored.

If you have set up your web server properly, you should also be able to
subscribe by going to something like
http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mynewsletter and you should be
able to adjust the various list settings at
http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mynewsletter

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From seather at scygro.za.net  Fri Nov 26 23:12:39 2004
From: seather at scygro.za.net (Seather)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:12:39 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom subscribe,
	unsubscribe and confirm pages per list
Message-ID: <41A7AA57.4000300@scygro.za.net>

Hi there,

I run several different domains' mailing lists on one mailing list 
setup, most of it being basic newsletters with no user-input, they just 
receive emails.

Now I need custom subscribe, unsubscribe and confirm pages which should 
be shown inside the website's pages using php.

I am unsure as to where and how exactly to customize all of this 
differently for each single site?

All that I need is a subscribe with a username and password, and an 
unsubscribe form with a username entry, and then the confirm pages for 
both of them. Passwords and options and such is completely unnescesarry 
as this is a newsletter only "mailing list".

I have tried using the /usr/local/mailman/bin/ tools such as add_members 
and remove_members, but unfortunately these don't offer the confirmation 
part which can lead to a catastrophe. There is of course the chance of 
me writing that bit myself in php, and then writing a c-wrapper so that 
apache/php can execute those commands, but there simply must be an 
easier way?

Many Thanks


From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 27 00:26:01 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:26:01 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <p06002000bdcd46d2d76d@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <000001c4d40f$4b985950$a701a8c0@alexmobil>

Terry, Mark and of course everybody else on the list,

I didn't want to sound rude or being not thankful about what the mailman
developers or ist community have done.  I really like mailman.  I am trying
to get mailman up and running for the past two weeks and I am doing this in
my sparetime for a hockey club for free.

All I meantis that it is very difficult to know what to do when everybody
and every tutorial is offering a different solution.  I understand that it
is possible to install mailman in any choosen location, but some basics
should be the same, at least when we all talk about the same mail client.
So when running mailman together with qmail/vpopmail the way is either to
use is -with-cgi-gid=mailman or -with-cgi-gid=VCHKPW.  Do you knwo what I am
trying to say?

When Jordi offered me his help and I really appreciate any help!!!  He/she
wrote -with-cgi-gid=apache.  In this case it is absolutely no problem to
understand that my Apache user/group is "nobody" so I would have to change
it to -with-cgi-gid=nobody.  So there I see differences on every system, but
I am missing a main road to success.  Why is that not possible?

So I hope everybody got my point now.  Thank you very much to all of you
offering support for free!!!

Alex

>
>Bryan, what do you say about this?  I believe qmail/vpopmail is a 
>pretty wide spreaded configuration by now and I don't understand why 
>the creators of mailman can't just say, that's the way to go, fullstop!
>
>Best regards,
>
>Alex
Hi again,
	While it would be excellent to have everyone using the same, 
it's just never going to happen. Yes, qmail/vpopmail is relatively 
popular, but not even close to the extent of sendmail usage & also 
not close to Postfix either. Exim is also a popular choice, as are 
Courier-MTA & Communigate Pro along with qmail & a pile of others, so 
it's best to allow Mailman the extent of running with any mail server 
you care to run, depending on your configuration.
	The other problem developers also face is that people running 
a particular OS & MTA, such as your choice of qmail is that there are 
a myriad of configuration options for that, using different paths for 
directories & so on, such as the option of running Mailman in any 
directory so chosen, so I believe Mailman developers have don the 
best they can with what they have to work with.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From nospam at rtcw.com.fr  Sat Nov 27 00:34:27 2004
From: nospam at rtcw.com.fr (Sylvain)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 00:34:27 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using Mailman for Newsletters
In-Reply-To: <PC17232004112613560200629ebedcc0@msapiro>
References: <20041126213833.GE1634@tosh>
	<PC17232004112613560200629ebedcc0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20041126233427.GT1634@tosh>

Le Fri, Nov 26, 2004 at 01:56:02PM -0800, Mark Sapiro ecrivait : 
> Thanks for checking the FAQ first.

No problem ! I usualy prefere to find the solution by myself :)

> To subscribe via e-mail send "blank" e-mail to
> mynewsletter-join at list.mydomain.com or to
> mynewsletter-subscribe at list.mydomain.com or send e-mail eith subject
> "subscribe" to mynewsletter-request at list.mydomain.com.

Ok, it works when I send an email at
mynewsletter-join at list.mydomain.com ! I can see the mail passing in my
Postfix logs and the bounce from Mailman arrives, and I appear in the
Members List. So everything works fine. 

My problem was a permission problem :/ I've just tail -f the error log
file of Mailman and I got this :

IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied:
'/var/lib/mailman/lists/rtcw-tux/config.pck'

Well, I think my installation of Postfix is not very clean. It has been
installed from the sources and I had a lot of problems to make Mailman
working fine with acting as a Mailing-List manager.

Anyway, this is a 'test' server. I'll try to set this system on a clean
installation :)

> mynewsletter at list.mydomain.com is the posting address of the list, i.e.
> the address to which you send to have the mail resent to all the list
> members. Since your list has no members yet, this mail is essentially
> ignored.

Ok, this step is working to. If, as a simple member of the list, I send
an email on mynewsletter at list.mydomain.com, it's rejected with the error
message I've defined, so that's ok!

> If you have set up your web server properly, you should also be able to
> subscribe by going to something like
> http://www.example.com/mailman/listinfo/mynewsletter and you should be
> able to adjust the various list settings at
> http://www.example.com/mailman/admin/mynewsletter

Yep, this step is working just fine too.

Thanks for your help!

cheers,
Sylvain

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From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sat Nov 27 00:34:54 2004
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:34:54 +1100
Subject: AW: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and running
	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <000001c4d40f$4b985950$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
References: <000001c4d40f$4b985950$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
Message-ID: <p06002002bdcd6cb92a44@[203.53.37.182]>

>Terry, Mark and of course everybody else on the list,
>
>I didn't want to sound rude or being not thankful about what the mailman
>developers or ist community have done.  I really like mailman.  I am trying
>to get mailman up and running for the past two weeks and I am doing this in
>my sparetime for a hockey club for free.
>
>All I meantis that it is very difficult to know what to do when everybody
>and every tutorial is offering a different solution.  I understand that it
>is possible to install mailman in any choosen location, but some basics
>should be the same, at least when we all talk about the same mail client.
>So when running mailman together with qmail/vpopmail the way is either to
>use is -with-cgi-gid=mailman or -with-cgi-gid=VCHKPW.  Do you knwo what I am
>trying to say?
>
>When Jordi offered me his help and I really appreciate any help!!!  He/she
>wrote -with-cgi-gid=apache.  In this case it is absolutely no problem to
>understand that my Apache user/group is "nobody" so I would have to change
>it to -with-cgi-gid=nobody.  So there I see differences on every system, but
>I am missing a main road to success.  Why is that not possible?
>
>So I hope everybody got my point now.  Thank you very much to all of you
>offering support for free!!!
>
>Alex
>
Hi again,
	Indeed, I knew what you were saying, but the variants of so 
many operating systems makes it nigh on impossible to have things so 
easy.
	Like you, I have been struggling with Mailman & trust me, 
once you nail it, you will wonder exactly where you went wrong & why 
when it was so obvious.
	I found the combination of these 3 tutorials the best for my 
system (Mac OSX w/POostfix), but you'll need to substitute your 
system's paths in many places:

http://www.afp548.com/articles/Jaguar/mailman21-new.html
http://www.hesketh.com/publications/mailman_made_easy.html
http://www.afp548.com/Articles/mail/python-mailman.html

	My suggestion is to get the command line way of creating 
lists working firstly, then look at fixing up the web interface - if 
I can help you out, I will try.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 27 00:44:27 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 15:44:27 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom subscribe,
	unsubscribe and confirm pages per list
In-Reply-To: <41A7AA57.4000300@scygro.za.net>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112615442705000a563b4f@msapiro>

Seather wrote:
>
>I run several different domains' mailing lists on one mailing list 
>setup, most of it being basic newsletters with no user-input, they just 
>receive emails.
>
>Now I need custom subscribe, unsubscribe and confirm pages which should 
>be shown inside the website's pages using php.
>
>I am unsure as to where and how exactly to customize all of this 
>differently for each single site?


The templates in templates/<language>/* can be customized on a
per-list, per-domain or sitewide basis. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp


>All that I need is a subscribe with a username and password, and an 
>unsubscribe form with a username entry, and then the confirm pages for 
>both of them. Passwords and options and such is completely unnescesarry 
>as this is a newsletter only "mailing list".
>
>I have tried using the /usr/local/mailman/bin/ tools such as add_members 
>and remove_members, but unfortunately these don't offer the confirmation 
>part which can lead to a catastrophe. There is of course the chance of 
>me writing that bit myself in php, and then writing a c-wrapper so that 
>apache/php can execute those commands, but there simply must be an 
>easier way?


Beyond customizing the existing templates, there may not be an easier
way.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 27 01:22:42 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:22:42 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and
	runningwithqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <p06002002bdcd6cb92a44@[203.53.37.182]>
Message-ID: <002101c4d417$361b4670$a701a8c0@alexmobil>

Hi Terry,

thanks for your offer to help.  I used the way Tierra described, now
creating aliases for each list using a script.  This seems to work, even so
I liked the idea to have a solution where I don't have to run a script for
each list created. On the other hand I put so much time into this by now and
I am not planning to create lists every day ;-)

As others seem to have this solved without the aliases but using the
.qmail-default file, I might do some more testing on my dev machine.  I
start to understand how all this works, at least regarding qmail/vpopmail
and if I solve the other solution as well some day, I am thinking of writing
a tutorial about both solutions.

Thanks for now and best regards,

Alex




Hi again,
	Indeed, I knew what you were saying, but the variants of so 
many operating systems makes it nigh on impossible to have things so 
easy.
	Like you, I have been struggling with Mailman & trust me, 
once you nail it, you will wonder exactly where you went wrong & why 
when it was so obvious.
	I found the combination of these 3 tutorials the best for my 
system (Mac OSX w/POostfix), but you'll need to substitute your 
system's paths in many places:

http://www.afp548.com/articles/Jaguar/mailman21-new.html
http://www.hesketh.com/publications/mailman_made_easy.html
http://www.afp548.com/Articles/mail/python-mailman.html

	My suggestion is to get the command line way of creating 
lists working firstly, then look at fixing up the web interface - if 
I can help you out, I will try.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd





From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 27 01:24:58 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:24:58 +0100
Subject: AW: AW: [Mailman-Users] Unable to get Mailman up and
	running 	withqmail/vpopmail
In-Reply-To: <000001c4d40f$4b985950$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
References: <000001c4d40f$4b985950$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
Message-ID: <p06002016bdcd7913742b@[10.0.1.3]>

At 12:26 AM +0100 2004-11-27, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>  All I meantis that it is very difficult to know what to do when everybody
>  and every tutorial is offering a different solution.  I understand that it
>  is possible to install mailman in any choosen location, but some basics
>  should be the same, at least when we all talk about the same mail client.

	We can't control what other documentation that people create.  We 
can have some control over our own documentation.  There is one 
README.QMAIL file that you should have gotten as part of the Mailman 
source code.  If the instructions there are not adequate, then we 
would appreciate feedback on what is needed to bring them up to par.

	Alternatively, if there is one good canonical source of 
information for using Mailman with qmail that has already been 
produced by someone else, then that should be linked from the FAQ. 
We do this same sort of thing for people using Mailman with Exim, and 
I see no reason why we can't do this for Mailman and qmail as well.


	Ultimately, it all comes down to unofficial documentation sources 
versus the official and semi-official ones.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 27 02:17:01 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:17:01 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list
Message-ID: <001201c4d41e$ce702560$a701a8c0@alexmobil>

Hi there,

I know I just bothered the list with my installation problems, but I hope
you all allow me another questions. :-)

I am in the process to get my lists up and running and I do have a little
problem.  Is ther a way to either allow a complete list to send messages to
another list they are no subscribed to or open this list to allow anybody no
matter if subscribed or not to send messages to a list?

As said before I am installing mailman for a hockey club and team members
should be able to send messages to each other.  So e.g. all men should
subsrcibe to the list "hockeymen" and all women to "hockeywomen".  I they
want to send a mail to both men and women I would like them to simply send
the mail to both lists, but they are only subscribed to one of the lists.
Of course I could create a third list "hockeyboth" but this would not be
very userfriendly.

In the adminpanel I have the field "accept_these_nonmembers".  Could I set
some kind of wildcard there?  What would I have to write?  Something like
^*?

Thanks for any help and best regards,

Alex





From info at digital4u.de  Sat Nov 27 02:30:46 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 02:30:46 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list
In-Reply-To: <001201c4d41e$ce702560$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
Message-ID: <002801c4d420$bb54b7f0$a701a8c0@alexmobil>

Sorry, saw the option generic_nonmember_action too late, anyway if there is
a way to allow access only to antother list but to the whole world, this
would be the preferred way.  If not generic_nonmember_action will do it...
In details e.g. allow every member from list1 send mails to both list1 and
list2.

Alex


-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: mailman-users-bounces at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces at python.org] Im Auftrag von DIGITAL FOR YOU -
Alexander Schwethelm
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. November 2004 02:17
An: mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list


Hi there,

I know I just bothered the list with my installation problems, but I hope
you all allow me another questions. :-)

I am in the process to get my lists up and running and I do have a little
problem.  Is ther a way to either allow a complete list to send messages to
another list they are no subscribed to or open this list to allow anybody no
matter if subscribed or not to send messages to a list?

As said before I am installing mailman for a hockey club and team members
should be able to send messages to each other.  So e.g. all men should
subsrcibe to the list "hockeymen" and all women to "hockeywomen".  I they
want to send a mail to both men and women I would like them to simply send
the mail to both lists, but they are only subscribed to one of the lists. Of
course I could create a third list "hockeyboth" but this would not be very
userfriendly.

In the adminpanel I have the field "accept_these_nonmembers".  Could I set
some kind of wildcard there?  What would I have to write?  Something like
^*?

Thanks for any help and best regards,

Alex



------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/





From gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk  Sat Nov 27 02:50:34 2004
From: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Smith)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 01:50:34 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list 
Message-ID: <20041127015034.48917.qmail@web25001.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi.
 
Would it be possible to set up an email forwarder,?
 
For example," forwardmen at domain.com " is a member of hockey men and any emails that are sent to it are forwarded to hockeywoman.
 
Hope this makes sense, might take some logistical thinking to make work.
 
Gary Smith



Gary Smith 

E-mail: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk 

Website: www.greatcrap.com

		
---------------------------------
Moving house? Beach bar in Thailand? New Wardrobe? Win ?10k with Yahoo! Mail to make your dream a reality.

From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 27 02:56:17 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 17:56:17 -0800
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another
	list
In-Reply-To: <002801c4d420$bb54b7f0$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112617561707180ea34ddf@msapiro>

DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>Sorry, saw the option generic_nonmember_action too late, anyway if there is
>a way to allow access only to antother list but to the whole world, this
>would be the preferred way.  If not generic_nonmember_action will do it...
>In details e.g. allow every member from list1 send mails to both list1 and
>list2.

Yes, generic_nonmember_action = Accept will accept posts from everyone
not matching one of the four *_these_nonmembers filters.

And yes, the filters allow regular expressions, even
^.*$

And there is a patch available from Jim Tittsler to allow you to put
the name of another list in accept_these_nonmembers. See
http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sat Nov 27 03:49:26 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 21:49:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFE: Web interface to sync_members
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411262136360.28897@access.ces.clemson.edu>

It would be useful to extend the Membership Management page to support
sync_members.

We use mailman to run a number of members-only lists for a professional
society.  The membership database is kept on a separate system, and lists
of current members are produced for the various lists at regular
intervals.  It would be easier for our non-technical office staff to keep
the mailing list memberships in sync with the main database if they could
upload the member list through the Web rather than having to upload the
file with FTP and use sudo and shell commands to do the synching.

We could mass-delete and mass-subscribe, but it would be more convenient
to do it in one step.  Also, for some of the lists, new members should
receive notification that they have been subscribed, but carry-over
members should not get such notification.  The only way to do that with
add_members is to add in two steps or to make two files with members to be
deleted and members to be added, leaving the carry-over members
subscribed.

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 27 10:05:33 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:05:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFE: Web interface to sync_members
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411262136360.28897@access.ces.clemson.edu>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411262136360.28897@access.ces.clemson.edu>
Message-ID: <p06002017bdcdf3b331ae@[10.0.1.3]>

At 9:49 PM -0500 2004-11-26, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

>  It would be useful to extend the Membership Management page to support
>  sync_members.

	Please use the Mailman RFE page at 
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.  This 
will give us a better chance of being able to give the request proper 
consideration, development of a patch, etc....

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Nov 27 10:08:59 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:08:59 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list
In-Reply-To: <001201c4d41e$ce702560$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
References: <001201c4d41e$ce702560$a701a8c0@alexmobil>
Message-ID: <p06002018bdcdf3ff4374@[10.0.1.3]>

At 2:17 AM +0100 2004-11-27, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>  Of course I could create a third list "hockeyboth" but this would not be
>  very userfriendly.

	You could create an umbrella list, and/or use the patch by Jim 
Tittsler that has recently been mentioned.

>  In the adminpanel I have the field "accept_these_nonmembers".  Could I set
>  some kind of wildcard there?  What would I have to write?  Something like
>  ^*?

	This sort of thing is also an option, and I think Mark has 
explained the syntax.


	However, I'm curious as to whether or not you've considered 
making the lists open to posts from non-members?  That would allow 
what you want without requiring any patches or regular expressions. 
Of course, it would increase the amount of spam that might get 
through to the list, but then intelligent spammers could always 
monitor the output from the list and then spoof one of the subscribed 
addresses.

	Just a thought.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From jwt at OnJapan.net  Sat Nov 27 11:54:33 2004
From: jwt at OnJapan.net (Jim Tittsler)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:54:33 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] custom subscribe,
	unsubscribe and confirm pages per list
In-Reply-To: <41A7AA57.4000300@scygro.za.net>
References: <41A7AA57.4000300@scygro.za.net>
Message-ID: <20041127105433.GC12950@server.onjapan.net>

On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 12:12:39AM +0200, Seather wrote:
> All that I need is a subscribe with a username and password, and an 
> unsubscribe form with a username entry, and then the confirm pages for 
> both of them. Passwords and options and such is completely unnescesarry 
> as this is a newsletter only "mailing list".

If you are willing for the subscriber to do the "confirm" part
by mail, you can have your PHP page send mail to the list's
-request address on behalf of the user.

You could also use PHP's curl library to "submit" the
subscription form, "scrape" the result page the PHP gets
back, and show your own result page.

-- 
Jim Tittsler             http://www.OnJapan.net/      GPG: 0x01159DB6
Python Starship          http://Starship.Python.net/
Ringo MUG Tokyo          http://www.ringo.net/rss.html



From mjs at ces.clemson.edu  Sat Nov 27 14:40:35 2004
From: mjs at ces.clemson.edu (Matthew Saltzman)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 08:40:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RFE: Web interface to sync_members
In-Reply-To: <p06002017bdcdf3b331ae@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411262136360.28897@access.ces.clemson.edu>
	<p06002017bdcdf3b331ae@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0411270840230.29782@access.ces.clemson.edu>

On Sat, 27 Nov 2004, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 9:49 PM -0500 2004-11-26, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> >  It would be useful to extend the Membership Management page to support
> >  sync_members.
>
> 	Please use the Mailman RFE page at
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=103&atid=350103>.  This
> will give us a better chance of being able to give the request proper
> consideration, development of a patch, etc....

Will do, thanks!

-- 
		Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs


From jacsib at lutecium.org  Sat Nov 27 16:02:17 2004
From: jacsib at lutecium.org (Jacques B. Siboni)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:02:17 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mhonarc vs. Pipermail
Message-ID: <41A896F9.682D1AE4@lutecium.org>

Dear All

I have seen mails about this topic but I can't decide so far

I used Mhonarc with majordomo and now I run mailman with pipermail

-- should I use pipermail or mhonarc?

-- if it appears pipermail is better is there a piece of software to convert
ancient archives to pipermail or do i have to make it myself?

-- if it appears mhonarc is better how do i insert mhonarc as archive manager
inside mailman?

Thanks in advance for your help

Jacques


-- 
Dr. Jacques B. Siboni mailto:jacsib at Lutecium.org
8 pass. Charles Albert, F75018 Paris, France
Tel. & Fax: 33 (0) 1 42 28 76 78
Home Page: http://www.lutecium.org/jacsib/


From theall at tifaware.com  Sat Nov 27 17:13:39 2004
From: theall at tifaware.com (George Theall)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:13:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mhonarc vs. Pipermail
In-Reply-To: <41A896F9.682D1AE4@lutecium.org>
References: <41A896F9.682D1AE4@lutecium.org>
Message-ID: <20041127161339.GA8365@tifaware.com>

On Sat, Nov 27, 2004 at 03:02:17PM +0000, Jacques B. Siboni wrote:

> I used Mhonarc with majordomo and now I run mailman with pipermail
> 
> -- should I use pipermail or mhonarc?

When I migrated from majordomo to Mailman, I choose to stay with MHonArc,
primarily because it was something I was familiar with. I think the only
drawback to doing this is that Mailman supports pipermail directly.

That said, Richard Barrett of OpenInfo has written some patches that
integrate MHonArc (and htdig, for searching) seemlessly with Mailman;
you can find them at <http://www.openinfo.co.uk/mailman/>.  [By the way,
don't be confused by the labelling on the initial page -- patches are
available for 2.1.5.] They've been working well for me for about a year
on several low-volume lists that I run. 


George
-- 
theall at tifaware.com
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From david at midrange.com  Sat Nov 27 19:16:25 2004
From: david at midrange.com (David Gibbs)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 12:16:25 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Remove original message from -request mail response?
Message-ID: <coagah$995$1@sea.gmane.org>

Does anyone know if there is a way to NOT include the original email 
when commands sent to the -request address responds?

I've noticed a number of spammers are sending mail to my lists -request 
addresses ("The results of your email commands"), and the original spam 
is attached to the response.

Thanks!

david



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Nov 27 19:39:49 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:39:49 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mhonarc vs. Pipermail
In-Reply-To: <41A896F9.682D1AE4@lutecium.org>
Message-ID: <PC172320041127103949084388694bbc@msapiro>

Jacques B. Siboni wrote:
>
>-- if it appears pipermail is better is there a piece of software to convert
>ancient archives to pipermail or do i have to make it myself?

If you have a Unix like mbox file with your archived messages, you can
use bin/arch to build a pipermail archive from it. See
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.003.htp
for additional information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jan.eri at disnorge.no  Sat Nov 27 23:16:45 2004
From: jan.eri at disnorge.no (Jan Eri)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 23:16:45 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_member and passwords
Message-ID: <41A8FCCD.7000602@disnorge.no>

Is there a way to control which password a user get when adding users to 
a list with add_member?
We would like to give them the same password they use to access other 
parts of our system.

regards,
Jan

-- 
DIS-Norge
http://www.disnorge.no/



From stevew at tunedinweb.com  Sat Nov 27 23:20:43 2004
From: stevew at tunedinweb.com (Steve Wehr)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 17:20:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to include the email address of the recipient
	in the mailing
Message-ID: <000f01c4d4cf$58d10a70$6501a8c0@6w5gu>

One problem we always have with mailing lists is that people forget which
email address they used to subscribe. Often our subscribers have email
aliases that they use. For example: a user subscribes to our mailing list as
info at their_domain.com. This address is setup to forward mail to their "real"
email address: user at aol.com. 
 
So now they get a mailing from Mailman at user at aol.com. They reply that they
want to unsubscribe, and cannot, since user at aol.com is not a member of the
list. 
 
To help combat this I would like to add their %(email)s variable to the
msg_footer. I'd like to say something like: "You are subscribed to this list
as %(email)s". But that variable is not allowed there.
 
Can you suggest another solution??
 
Thanks!
 
Steve Wehr
Tunedin Web Design - TunedinWeb.com <http://www.hvpages.com/> 
 <mailto:stevew at tunedinweb.com> stevew at tunedinweb.com


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 28 00:26:37 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:26:37 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to include the email address of the
	recipientin the mailing
In-Reply-To: <000f01c4d4cf$58d10a70$6501a8c0@6w5gu>
Message-ID: <PC172320041127152637082882959f21@msapiro>

Steve Wehr wrote:
> 
>To help combat this I would like to add their %(email)s variable to the
>msg_footer. I'd like to say something like: "You are subscribed to this list
>as %(email)s". But that variable is not allowed there.
> 
>Can you suggest another solution??

See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp

This only works for non-digest subscribers. Digests cannot be
personalized. Also, there is a possibly quite large performance hit
since each message must be delivered to the MTA in a seperate
transaction since the text of each message is now different.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Nov 28 00:44:33 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:44:33 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] add_member and passwords
In-Reply-To: <41A8FCCD.7000602@disnorge.no>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112715443305460e6117c3@msapiro>

Jan Eri wrote:

>Is there a way to control which password a user get when adding users to 
>a list with add_member?

No. Attempts to include a password will either be ignored or will wind
up as the "real name" instead.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hermidio at facimed.scu.sld.cu  Sun Nov 28 15:16:30 2004
From: hermidio at facimed.scu.sld.cu (Hermidio A. Rodriguez Chavez)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:16:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail server
Message-ID: <000001c4d55d$c0f9d5d0$7ef4fea9@webmast>

hellow friends, ia need to migrate a windows mail server(MDAemon) to linux operating system, but i want to know what's the program that i need to use in linux or configure.

From gaf at blu.org  Sun Nov 28 16:41:41 2004
From: gaf at blu.org (Jerry Feldman)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:41:41 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail server
In-Reply-To: <000001c4d55d$c0f9d5d0$7ef4fea9@webmast>
References: <000001c4d55d$c0f9d5d0$7ef4fea9@webmast>
Message-ID: <20041128104141.41a754fe@gaf.gaf.net>

On Sun, 28 Nov 2004 09:16:30 -0500
"Hermidio A. Rodriguez Chavez" <hermidio at facimed.scu.sld.cu> wrote:

> hellow friends, ia need to migrate a windows mail server(MDAemon) to
> linux operating system, but i want to know what's the program that i
> need to use in linux or configure.
Linux has several. Today, most distributions use Postfix
(http://www.postfix.org/) as the default, but they also include the
venerable sendmail (http://www.sendmail.org/) as an option. Qmail
(http://www.qmail.org/) is another very popular MTA. You also probably
want to chose a Linux distro. Fedora Core 3,  SuSE 9.2 Professional,
Debian, or GenToo can be used as servers, and there are several
enterprise class distros, Red Hat AS 3.0, and SuSE Lenix Enterprise
Server 9.0. Mailman also serves very nicely as a list manager on any
Linux distro. 
I think I have answered your question. 

-- 
Jerry Feldman <gaf at blu.org>
Boston Linux and Unix user group
http://www.blu.org PGP key id:C5061EA9
PGP Key fingerprint:053C 73EC 3AC1 5C44 3E14 9245 FB00 3ED5 C506 1EA9


From Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz  Sun Nov 28 23:30:06 2004
From: Steven.Jones at vuw.ac.nz (Steven Jones)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:30:06 +1300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wee problem with web site showing "wrong" email
	address for the owner.
Message-ID: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01280747@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>

Hi All,

I have an issue with mailman's web interface when I go to mail a list owner, it shows "ssk at vuw.ac.xxxx" as the owner contact (which is correct, except for the @) but when you click URL on this to send an email it appears as ssk-owner at vuw.ac.xxxx in the email client applications.

This will not work as xxx-owner at vuw does not exist in the vuw.ac.xxxx domain. What I need the output to be is either ssk-owner at mailman.vuw.ac.xxxx which is the lists server or ssk at vuw.ac.xxxx which would go directly

How can I set this please?

regards

Steven


From douglas at brightworks.com  Mon Nov 29 00:26:04 2004
From: douglas at brightworks.com (Douglas McCarroll)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 18:26:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a "moderated list"
Message-ID: <41AA5E8C.6030204@brightworks.com>

Hi All,

How should I configure my Mailman list so that it's a moderated list?

I don't see a setting for this. I see two ways to approximate it but both have 
problems.

1. I can set every user to moderated. The problem with this is that every time 
someone new subscribes I have to set them as moderated. I'm looking for a global 
setting.

2. I can turn on emergency moderation. The problem with this is that when a 
member who isn't set to moderated posts a message I don't get an email informing 
me of the fact. It just sits there on the server until I check for posts.

Is there some way that I can specify that all messages should be moderated, and 
get a notification email every time any member posts? Without having to 
individually set each new subscriber to moderated?

Thanks,

Douglas



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 00:52:34 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 15:52:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] wee problem with web site showing "wrong"
	emailaddress for the owner.
In-Reply-To: <06E2E60FB9C6EF409EFE472A8F4A82EB01280747@coso.staff.vuw.ac.nz>
Message-ID: <PC172320041128155234079641e21d7e@msapiro>

Steven Jones wrote:
>
>I have an issue with mailman's web interface when I go to mail a list owner, it shows "ssk at vuw.ac.xxxx" as the owner contact (which is correct, except for the @) but when you click URL on this to send an email it appears as ssk-owner at vuw.ac.xxxx in the email client applications.
>
>This will not work as xxx-owner at vuw does not exist in the vuw.ac.xxxx domain. What I need the output to be is either ssk-owner at mailman.vuw.ac.xxxx which is the lists server or ssk at vuw.ac.xxxx which would go directly
>

It appears that the underlying problem is an incorrect value for
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST either in Defaults.py or in the override in
mm.cfg.py. From your explaination, it seems that it is vuw.ac.xxxx and
should be mailman.vuw.ac.xxxx

You can fix it for the ssk list by going to the lists General Options
page and setting "Host name this list prefers for email." to
mailman.vuw.ac.xxxx, but you should fix DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST in
mm_cfg.py so this doesn't happen with every new list.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 01:00:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2004 16:00:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to configure a "moderated list"
In-Reply-To: <41AA5E8C.6030204@brightworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC172320041128160003048441e21c27@msapiro>

Douglas McCarroll wrote:
>
>How should I configure my Mailman list so that it's a moderated list?
>
>I don't see a setting for this. I see two ways to approximate it but both have 
>problems.
>
>1. I can set every user to moderated. The problem with this is that every time 
>someone new subscribes I have to set them as moderated. I'm looking for a global 
>setting.


Set everyone moderated on Membership Management...->Membership List
under Additional Member Tasks. Then on Privacy options...->Sender
filters set default_member_moderation to Yes

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From info at digital4u.de  Mon Nov 29 12:28:43 2004
From: info at digital4u.de (DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:28:43 +0100
Subject: AW: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another list
In-Reply-To: <p06002018bdcdf3ff4374@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <002001c4d606$958dc2e0$0b01a8c0@alexhome>

Thanks again for all your answers.  I was not in the office over the
week-end, which is why I didn't respond earlier...

I will go for Jim Tittsler's patch and besdes that allowing everybody to
send mails to the list already works.   

Thanks and best regards,

Alex



-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Brad Knowles [mailto:brad at stop.mail-abuse.org] 
Gesendet: Samstag, 27. November 2004 10:09
An: DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm
Cc: mailman-users at python.org
Betreff: Re: [Mailman-Users] Allow list members to send mails to another
list


At 2:17 AM +0100 2004-11-27, DIGITAL FOR YOU - Alexander Schwethelm wrote:

>  Of course I could create a third list "hockeyboth" but this would not 
> be  very userfriendly.

	You could create an umbrella list, and/or use the patch by Jim 
Tittsler that has recently been mentioned.

>  In the adminpanel I have the field "accept_these_nonmembers".  Could 
> I set  some kind of wildcard there?  What would I have to write?  
> Something like  ^*?

	This sort of thing is also an option, and I think Mark has 
explained the syntax.


	However, I'm curious as to whether or not you've considered 
making the lists open to posts from non-members?  That would allow 
what you want without requiring any patches or regular expressions. 
Of course, it would increase the amount of spam that might get 
through to the list, but then intelligent spammers could always 
monitor the output from the list and then spoof one of the subscribed 
addresses.

	Just a thought.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.





From Luis.Talora at iesa.com.br  Mon Nov 29 13:57:26 2004
From: Luis.Talora at iesa.com.br (Luis Fernando C. Talora)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:57:26 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtain list members via e-mail
Message-ID: <5D201EB6E3041946BC4F8F6A14296132607EBA@svnt4-5.inepar.com.br>

Fellows,
 
Is there anyway to send a mail to the list server with some comands and the
server send a reply containing all list members?
 
Thank you all!
 
Regards,
 
_____________________
Lu?s Fernando C. Talora
Support Analyst
IT - IESA
 
 
===================================================================
Esta mensagem pode conter informa??o confidencial e/ou privilegiada.
Se voc? n?o for o destinat?rio ou a pessoa autorizada a receber esta 
mensagem, n?o dever? utilizar, copiar, alterar, divulgar a informa??o 
nela contida ou tomar qualquer a??o baseada nessas informa??es. Se 
voc? recebeu esta mensagem por engano, por favor avise imediatamente 
o remetente, respondendo o e-mail e em seguida apague-o.Agradecemos 
sua coopera??o. 

This message may contain confidential and/or privileged information. 
If you are not the addressee or authorized to receive this for the 
addressee, you must not use, copy, disclose, change, take any action 
based on this message or any information herein. If you have received
this message in error, please advise the sender immediately by reply 
e-mail and delete this message. Thank you for your cooperation.
===================================================================

From info at e-pyme.com  Mon Nov 29 16:09:04 2004
From: info at e-pyme.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Desarrollos_Tecnol=F3gicos_e-pyme?=)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:09:04 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change the from
Message-ID: <41AB3B90.6060304@e-pyme.com>

Hi!
I want to change the "from" header of my mailman list. I want that 
appears "Short Description <mylist at mydomain.com>", but I don't know how 
to do it.
Thanks.

-- 
info at e-pyme.com
http://www.e-pyme.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Desarrollos Tecnol?gicos e-pyme S.L.L.
Edificio Central del Parque Cient?fico y Tecnol?gico
Campus Universitario de Tafira S/N
35017 Las Palmas de Gran Canaria
Islas Canarias
Espa??a
Tlf: (+34) 928 980 815 
Fax: (+34) 928 980 740 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sistema de trabajo colaborativo IDESKTOP. http://www.idesktop.net



From rdewald at rdewald.us  Mon Nov 29 16:46:13 2004
From: rdewald at rdewald.us (R DeWald)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:46:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive link returns a 404
Message-ID: <20041129154613.GB10269@rdewald.us>

When I click the archive link from my admin or general information pages 
it returns a 404:

"The requested URL /pipermail/eat/ was not found on this server."

The list name in this example is "eat," by the way.  I have a feeling
this is an apache redirect issue, a mm_config mistake or something
similarly brain-dead, I am getting the same result for all lists on this
server.  I have tried the faq wizard, but apparently I am equally
incompetent there.

Any hints would be appreciated.


From anner at blast.com  Mon Nov 29 17:31:25 2004
From: anner at blast.com (Anne Ramey)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:31:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] one users mails being caught as bounces
Message-ID: <41AB4EDD.50302@blast.com>

All other users of this list can reply to messages normally, but I have 
one user that every time he replies, the list admin gets a message like:

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-bounces at ncees.org [mailto:mailman-bounces at ncees.org]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:12 AM
To: list-owner at ncees.org
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format
was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it.  This
mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to
the list administrator(s).

His user looks like it is set up exactly like all the others.  Any ideas 
why this might be happening?

-- 
Anne Ramey



From anner at blast.com  Mon Nov 29 17:35:07 2004
From: anner at blast.com (Anne Ramey)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 11:35:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user's replies are detected as bounces
Message-ID: <41AB4FBB.704@blast.com>

All other users of this list can reply to messages normally, but I have 
one user that every time he replies, the list admin gets a message like:

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-bounces at ncees.org [mailto:mailman-bounces at ncees.org]
Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:12 AM
To: list-owner at ncees.org
Subject: Uncaught bounce notification

The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format
was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it.  This
mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to
the list administrator(s).

His user looks like it is set up exactly like all the others.  Any ideas 
why this might be happening?

-- 
Anne Ramey


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 17:36:06 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:36:06 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Obtain list members via e-mail
In-Reply-To: <5D201EB6E3041946BC4F8F6A14296132607EBA@svnt4-5.inepar.com.br>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112908360602506c7aaf00@msapiro>

Luis Fernando C. Talora wrote:
> 
>Is there anyway to send a mail to the list server with some comands and the
>server send a reply containing all list members?

Send e-mail with the word "help" (no quotes) as the subject or body to
the listname-request at example.com address (your own listname and
domain). You will receive a response listing details of all the e-mail
commands including "who" which is what you want. The specific details
of the who command depend on the setting of private_roster (Who can
view subscription list?).

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 17:56:03 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 08:56:03 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archive link returns a 404
In-Reply-To: <20041129154613.GB10269@rdewald.us>
Message-ID: <PC1723200411290856030718ad845bf1@msapiro>

R DeWald wrote:

>When I click the archive link from my admin or general information pages 
>it returns a 404:
>
>"The requested URL /pipermail/eat/ was not found on this server."
>
>The list name in this example is "eat," by the way.  I have a feeling
>this is an apache redirect issue, a mm_config mistake or something
>similarly brain-dead, I am getting the same result for all lists on this
>server.  I have tried the faq wizard, but apparently I am equally
>incompetent there.

>From the INSTALL document:

    - Configure your web server to point to the Pipermail public
      mailing list archives:

      For example, in Apache:

         Alias /pipermail/ $varprefix/archives/public/

      where $varprefix is usually $prefix unless you've used the
      --with-var-prefix option to configure.

      Consult your web server's documentation for details.  Also be
      sure to configure your web server to follow symbolic links in
      this directory, otherwise public Pipermail archives won't be
      accessible.  For Apache users, consult the FollowSymLinks
      option.

The next few paragraphs of the document will be of interest if you're
going to be supporting internationalized public archives.

Note that $varprefix|$prefix needs to be replaced with the actual path.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 18:04:47 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:04:47 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] user's replies are detected as bounces
In-Reply-To: <41AB4FBB.704@blast.com>
Message-ID: <PC1723200411290904470812d4aa25fb@msapiro>

Anne Ramey wrote:

>All other users of this list can reply to messages normally, but I have 
>one user that every time he replies, the list admin gets a message like:
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mailman-bounces at ncees.org [mailto:mailman-bounces at ncees.org]
>Sent: Monday, November 29, 2004 10:12 AM
>To: list-owner at ncees.org
>Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
>
>The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format
>was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it.  This
>mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to
>the list administrator(s).
>
>His user looks like it is set up exactly like all the others.  Any ideas 
>why this might be happening?

His MUA replies to the envelope sender, Sender: or Errors-To: address
(most likely envelope sender) instead of the Reply-To: or From:
address.

This is a problem with his MUA (e-mail client), not with the list or
his list settings.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 18:33:29 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 09:33:29 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Change the from
In-Reply-To: <41AB3B90.6060304@e-pyme.com>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112909332907506c7ab10b@msapiro>

Desarrollos Tecnol?gicos e-pyme wrote:
>
>I want to change the "from" header of my mailman list. I want that 
>appears "Short Description <mylist at mydomain.com>", but I don't know how 
>to do it.

Set anonymous_list to Yes on the list's General Options page. This will
put the list address in the From: header. It will just be

  From: mylist at mydomain.com

I don't know a way to make it

  From: Short Description <mylist at mydomain.com>

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Nov 29 18:47:56 2004
From: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk (Gary Smith)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:47:56 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
Message-ID: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>

Hi.
 
In one of the previous posts (Allow members to send e-mail to another list) it was mentioned that intelligent spammers could monitor the output of a list and then spoof one of the subscribed addresses. 
 
I dont know much about emails, but how is this possible that they can monitor the output? It is possible to stop it easily?
 
Thanks,
 
Gary Smith



Gary Smith 

E-mail: gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk 

Website: www.greatcrap.com

		
---------------------------------
 ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!  

From asilcott at nksd.wednet.edu  Mon Nov 29 19:04:31 2004
From: asilcott at nksd.wednet.edu (Alan Silcott)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:04:31 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to disable "the results of your email commands"
	notifications???
Message-ID: <000501c4d63d$e2fc9650$0fba9d98@root.nksd.wednet.edu>

I am trying to setup a list where you can email a subscribe request and not
receive any confirmations at all.  I am not sure if I am missing a setting,
but I can't figure out how to disable the "the results of your email
commands" notification.  I did do some searching before hand and found this
post: 

 

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-January/033757.html

 

But I would like to see if there is a easy way to do this before I start
commenting code.

 

Thanks!!!!

Alan

 

 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 19:59:28 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:59:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to disable "the results of your email
	commands"notifications???
In-Reply-To: <000501c4d63d$e2fc9650$0fba9d98@root.nksd.wednet.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112910592806406b6309bc@msapiro>

Alan Silcott wrote:

>I am trying to setup a list where you can email a subscribe request and not
>receive any confirmations at all.  I am not sure if I am missing a setting,
>but I can't figure out how to disable the "the results of your email
>commands" notification.  I did do some searching before hand and found this
>post: 
>
> 
>
>http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-January/033757.html
>
> 
>
>But I would like to see if there is a easy way to do this before I start
>commenting code.

Do not do what this post suggests. It will stop sending all responses
to all e-mail commands for every list. Unless you want to disable all
responses to commands such as help, info, lists, set and who for every
list, you don't want to do this.

I don't know of an "easy" way to do what you want. If you're going to
hack the code, you probably don't want to do it as bluntly as the
referenced post suggests.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rbranch1 at rochester.rr.com  Mon Nov 29 20:22:13 2004
From: rbranch1 at rochester.rr.com (Bob Branch)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 14:22:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Receiving Dupes
Message-ID: <LEEDLMPNPEDLPKLKDIGAKEBFFEAA.rbranch1@rochester.rr.com>

Any Idea why I am receiving 2 copies of each message?  I have made sure I am not
signed in under 2 different addresses, I have signed out and made sure I don't
get any more messages.  But when I sign back on (just once) I get the dupes
again.

Bob

---------------------
E-Mail: mailto:bob at w2ras.com
Website:  www.rebhosting.com



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Nov 29 21:10:19 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 12:10:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Receiving Dupes
In-Reply-To: <LEEDLMPNPEDLPKLKDIGAKEBFFEAA.rbranch1@rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <PC17232004112912101906406b6309b3@msapiro>

Bob Branch wrote:

>Any Idea why I am receiving 2 copies of each message?  I have made sure I am not
>signed in under 2 different addresses, I have signed out and made sure I don't
>get any more messages.  But when I sign back on (just once) I get the dupes
>again.

The first step is to examine the chain of Received: headers in both
messages. This should give clues as to where the duplication occurs.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From dstewart at atl.lmco.com  Tue Nov 30 02:58:53 2004
From: dstewart at atl.lmco.com (Doug Stewart)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:58:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dual architecture setup?
Message-ID: <41ABD3DD.5090000@atl.lmco.com>

Howdy:
This might be a bit of an odd question (and one whose answer that I 
haven't been able to come across in the archives) but I need to support 
two CPU architectures with Mailman, with the bin scripts compiled on a 
Sparc and the CGI stuff compiled for x86.

The webserver runs Linux and the mail server runs Solaris.

Any ideas?  Your help would be greatly appreciated.

-- 
------------
Doug Stewart
Systems Administrator/Web Applications Developer
Lockheed Martin Advanced Technology Labs 
dstewart at atl.lmco.com



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 30 04:34:35 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:34:35 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Dual architecture setup?
In-Reply-To: <41ABD3DD.5090000@atl.lmco.com>
Message-ID: <PC172320041129193435018761ba4f9e@msapiro>

Doug Stewart wrote:
>
>This might be a bit of an odd question (and one whose answer that I 
>haven't been able to come across in the archives) but I need to support 
>two CPU architectures with Mailman, with the bin scripts compiled on a 
>Sparc and the CGI stuff compiled for x86.
>
>The webserver runs Linux and the mail server runs Solaris.

The scripts aren't an issue because they're compiled by Python on the
fly. It's the wrappers that would be the issue - cgi-wrapper.c and
mail-wrapper.c.

By far the easiest way to address this is to just set up a web server
for Mailman only on the Sparc (or set up an MTA for Mailman only on
the x86) and run everything there. This avoids all the NFS
complications and allows having Python on only the one machine if
that's a concern.

For some other ideas, see the thread "mailman on 2 servers" beginning
at
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2004-November/040571.html

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Nov 30 05:03:55 2004
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:03:55 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed Mailman 
	onFedora Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]> (Brad Knowles's message of
	"Sat, 20 Nov 2004 01:46:06 +0100")
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <873bysq8yc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

    Brad> 	If you can show us a cross-platform way to check for
    Brad> all the appropriate and necessary Python headers that would
    Brad> be required by Mailman, and would work regardless of where
    Brad> Python was installed, where Mailman was installed, etc...,
    Brad> I'm sure we'd love to see your patch.

You don't need to do all that.  All you need to do is trap the absence
of such a basic file anywhere that Mailman would look for it.  If
$os = linux, and Python.h is missing, you can bet that "missing -devel
rpm" is the issue.  So, if Mailman comes with an autoconf script, you
just do

  AC_CHECK_HEADER(Python.h, , got_python_h=yes)])
  if test $got_python_h != yes -a $os = linux; then
    echo 'If you're on Linux, you have the "binary distro no -devel rpm" bug!'
    echo 'Switch to an Industrial-Strength OS such as NetBSD immediately!'
    echo 'Gentoo Linux will do, too.'
    dnl Last I checked, this wasn't a real AC macro, but we use a homebrew
    dnl thingie and I forget how to do this "right"
    AC_DIE_HORRIBLY_WITH_SOUND_EFFECTS()
  fi

in configure.ac.  The hard part is coming up with an informative
failure message that doesn't show how disgusted you are.<0.5 wink>

This won't work for Windows (except for people using the various GNU
toolchains), but that's probably not that big a deal.  Windows people
either don't know what a compiler is, or they have the full schlepp.
It's only Linux that surprises experienced hands by failing to
distribute header files.  I've been bitten by this myself twice in the
last month (of course, I just do "apt-get install thingie-dev", so
it's not a big deal---it's the principle of the thing).

-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Nov 30 05:56:45 2004
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:56:45 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Anywhere for novices?
In-Reply-To: <E4F4767D-3B18-11D9-A8A0-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com> (PeteBell's
	message of "Sat, 20 Nov 2004 17:23:29 +0000")
References: <E4F4767D-3B18-11D9-A8A0-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <87y8gkorxu.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "PeteBell" == PeteBell  <macbantam at ntlworld.com> writes:

    PeteBell> Is there ANYWHERE a novice can get hand-holding
    PeteBell> step-by-step tutorials on all this stuff?

Yes ...

    PeteBell> Python, scripts, configs, mailman, MTAs, what the hell
    PeteBell> does it all mean?

... but they are not indexed under those names, and probably not for
your platform.

What you are looking for is books or tutorials with names like "Unix
for Mac OS X Users" and "Linux Administration for Dummies".  "Yes,
Virginia, Mac OS X is different from Linux."  But at the level you're
interested in the difference is a minor annoyance compared to all the
new stuff you need to know, and there's a lot more Linux stuff for
Unix neophytes than there is Mac OS X stuff with the same target
audience.

Any Linux distro has a pile of documents called HOWTOs.  These are
available online somewhere, Google sez www.tldp.org.  There's probably
a Mailman-HOWTO, a Sendmail-HOWTO, a Postfix-HOWTO, a Python-HOWTO,
etc.  You probably won't find anywhere near as much for your platform;
Mac users generally would rather spend money than thought on their
computers.  (An honorable choice, but not one that leads to production
of HOWTOs for other people to follow.)

    PeteBell> Is there ANYWHERE this is in plain English

Well, all the names above are translations from the Japanese titles my
bookstore offers.<wink>  I did try to be idiomatic; there _may_ be
English books by those names!

    PeteBell> - where it isn't written as if to be read by people with
    PeteBell> years of programming experience.  I need: "you do
    PeteBell> this... and then you do that... and this is what should
    PeteBell> happen..." etc!

_That_ probably doesn't exist, period.  This is approximately on the
order of complexity of learning to walk on your hands by moving
exactly one muscle at a time.  Yes, such scripts do exist, and they do
often work ---but when they do, they get packaged and sold as
"solutions" by vendors like Apple, or even bundled with Mailman (ie,
setup.py).  IIRC you've already tried Apple's Mailman, and it didn't
work for you.

Really, go read the Linux docs.  The fact that they're for Linux will
help you remember that you're trying to learn enough "general
background" to troubleshoot your own problems.  If that sounds
unattractive, maybe you should hire somebody else to do it for you.
Alternatively, maybe there's another packaged MLM that's not as good a
fit for your needs as Mailman, but would work out of the box in your
environment.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From stephen at xemacs.org  Tue Nov 30 06:37:47 2004
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 14:37:47 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
In-Reply-To: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> (Gary
	Smith's message of "Mon, 29 Nov 2004 17:47:56 +0000 (GMT)")
References: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <87r7mbq4lw.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Gary" == Gary Smith <gary8smith at yahoo.co.uk> writes:

    Gary> In one of the previous posts (Allow members to send e-mail
    Gary> to another list) it was mentioned that intelligent spammers
    Gary> could monitor the output of a list and then spoof one of the
    Gary> subscribed addresses.

    Gary> I dont know much about emails, but how is this possible that
    Gary> they can monitor the output?

1.  They could get the mail from the archives.
2.  They could be subscribed to the list.
3.  They could buy access to list traffic from a list member.
4.  They could steal access to a list member's files using a virus.
5.  They could get access to the mail in transit (either by suborning
    an ISP, or by cracking it).

There are probably other ways that someone with worse experience or a
more devious mind than mine could come up with.
 
    Gary> It is possible to stop it easily?

No.  Unless you encrypt it, email is like a postcard.  Your wife can
read it over your shoulder, your daughter can read it sitting on the
kitchen table where you left it, the mailman can read it, any of the
postal employees can read it, etc.  Sure, you can close of some of
these routes easily, but you have to close them _all_ to be safe.
That's not easy.

Of course it's unlikely that any spammer would target _your_ list
specifically.  But _all_ mailing lists are a bonanza for spammers, so
if one notices that you have a mailing list going, they will try to
crack it.


-- 
Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences     http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From macbantam at ntlworld.com  Tue Nov 30 08:23:07 2004
From: macbantam at ntlworld.com (PeteBell)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 07:23:07 +0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ Wizard
Message-ID: <AE515D1A-42A0-11D9-B3BE-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>

This is probably a bit more of an unusual query from usual, but my 
question is this:

How is the "FAQ Wizard" feature on your website driven?

I want to feature something exactly like this on my website.

Thanks in advance
Pete Bell, UK



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 30 10:44:23 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:44:23 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
In-Reply-To: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
References: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06002033bdd1f1077da4@[10.0.1.3]>

At 5:47 PM +0000 2004-11-29, Gary Smith wrote:

>  In one of the previous posts (Allow members to send e-mail to another list)
>  it was mentioned that intelligent spammers could monitor the output of a
>  list and then spoof one of the subscribed addresses.

	Indeed, this is a risk.

>  I dont know much about emails, but how is this possible that they can
>  monitor the output?

	They subscribe to the list.  They see all the addresses come 
across that a regular user would see, then pick one that they want to 
spoof.

>                       It is possible to stop it easily?

	Nope.  If all posters were required to use PGP-signed messages, 
and you had PGP integrated into Mailman so as to reject all messages 
which were not correctly PGP-signed, that might work.  Of course, 
anyone who wanted to join the list and post would need to upload 
their key to the PGP keyring on the mailing list server.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From douglas at brightworks.com  Tue Nov 30 11:26:26 2004
From: douglas at brightworks.com (Douglas McCarroll)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 05:26:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
In-Reply-To: <p06002033bdd1f1077da4@[10.0.1.3]>
References: <20041129174756.34626.qmail@web25009.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
	<p06002033bdd1f1077da4@[10.0.1.3]>
Message-ID: <41AC4AD2.1010305@brightworks.com>

I'm a relative Mailman newby, but this is a big interest of mine. I've just set 
up a couple of lists, and here's what I've done to prevent the harvesting of 
list-user email addresses by spammers. Some may be excessive - I don't fully 
understand all the options - but when in doubt I take the cautious option.

1. Set anonymous_list to Yes.

2. Set first_strip_reply_to to Yes.

3. In new_member_options I've selected Conceal The Member's Address.

4. For private_roster I've selected List Admin Only.

5. Set obscure_addresses to Yes.

What have I missed?

It really surprises me that the vast majority of lists (including this one!) 
blithely send out posters' email addresses to all subscribers. Of course, having 
an anonymous list means that posters have to sign their emails, or no one knows 
who sent them.  :)

Douglas



Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 5:47 PM +0000 2004-11-29, Gary Smith wrote:
> 
>>  In one of the previous posts (Allow members to send e-mail to another 
>> list)
>>  it was mentioned that intelligent spammers could monitor the output of a
>>  list and then spoof one of the subscribed addresses.
> 
> 
>     Indeed, this is a risk.
> 
>>  I dont know much about emails, but how is this possible that they can
>>  monitor the output?
> 
> 
>     They subscribe to the list.  They see all the addresses come across 
> that a regular user would see, then pick one that they want to spoof.
> 
>>                       It is possible to stop it easily?
> 
> 
>     Nope.  If all posters were required to use PGP-signed messages, and 
> you had PGP integrated into Mailman so as to reject all messages which 
> were not correctly PGP-signed, that might work.  Of course, anyone who 
> wanted to join the list and post would need to upload their key to the 
> PGP keyring on the mailing list server.
> 



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 30 11:41:04 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:41:04 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Has anyone successfully installed
	Mailman  	onFedora Core 2?
In-Reply-To: <873bysq8yc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <007d01c4ce5f$95410da0$14140a0a@greg>
	<p0600202abdc443d10e3e@[10.0.1.3]>
	<873bysq8yc.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06002037bdd1fdab741c@[10.0.1.3]>

At 1:03 PM +0900 2004-11-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>    AC_CHECK_HEADER(Python.h, , got_python_h=yes)])
>    if test $got_python_h != yes -a $os = linux; then
>      echo 'If you're on Linux, you have the "binary distro no -devel 
>rpm" bug!'
>      echo 'Switch to an Industrial-Strength OS such as NetBSD immediately!'
>      echo 'Gentoo Linux will do, too.'

	But then you have to do this for every OS in existence.  You'd 
have to wrap a conditional of this sort around every single file that 
building Mailman might require, but which is not included as part of 
Mailman itself.

	I'm sorry, but this is a totally non-scalable suggestion.  If all 
we had to do was to support a single OS, that would be fine.  But we 
can't do everyone's job for them, and if the RPM builders want to 
have multiple different versions of Python (or whatever else Mailman 
might depend on), then they need to take the responsibility of 
dealing with the resulting issues.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Nov 30 11:44:57 2004
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:44:57 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] FAQ Wizard
In-Reply-To: <AE515D1A-42A0-11D9-B3BE-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>
References: <AE515D1A-42A0-11D9-B3BE-0003933EA39A@ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <p06002038bdd1ff16c94f@[10.0.1.3]>

At 7:23 AM +0000 2004-11-30, PeteBell wrote:

>  How is the "FAQ Wizard" feature on your website driven?

	It's a tool written in Python.  Actually, I think it is a 
particular instance of a tool that was written to support the whole 
of python.org and not just Mailman.  Therefore, you'd need to talk to 
the Python developers.

	According to the bottom of that page, you should be able to send 
feedback to "mailman-cabal at python.org".  They should at least be able 
to tell you where you can get more information on this tool.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

   SAGE member since 1995.  See <http://www.sage.org/> for more info.


From anne at isoc.org  Tue Nov 30 16:02:25 2004
From: anne at isoc.org (Anne Shroeder)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:02:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not being delivered and consultants wanted?
In-Reply-To: <20041128104141.41a754fe@gaf.gaf.net>
Message-ID: <0I7Z00511Z41MV@a34-mta01.direcway.com>

We've recently had multiple problems with our mailman installation
(currently hosted externally but hopefully soon to be moved in house) and
the most recent one is that mail is simply not delivered - most of the time.
Some messages seem to get through, but most do not.  Because I don't have
access to the server, I have to rely on the consultant who runs it to track
things down and he is not available 24/7 and when I'm getting yelled at by
my boss. 

My questions:  
(1) Is there a common cause for mail to disappear into the ether
(2) Are there companies or teams of consultants who do provide 24/7 support
for mailman installations?  

Anne




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 30 18:00:14 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:00:14 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
In-Reply-To: <41AC4AD2.1010305@brightworks.com>
Message-ID: <PC17232004113009001401879a0fd709@msapiro>

Douglas McCarroll wrote:

>I'm a relative Mailman newby, but this is a big interest of mine. I've just set 
>up a couple of lists, and here's what I've done to prevent the harvesting of 
>list-user email addresses by spammers. Some may be excessive - I don't fully 
>understand all the options - but when in doubt I take the cautious option.
>
>1. Set anonymous_list to Yes.
>
>2. Set first_strip_reply_to to Yes.
>
>3. In new_member_options I've selected Conceal The Member's Address.
>
>4. For private_roster I've selected List Admin Only.
>
>5. Set obscure_addresses to Yes.

Given 4, 3 may be overkill. "Three" means the response to an e-mail
"who" command or a roster viewed on the web will contain only those
people who've bothered to change their setting which will be very few.
Since "four" means that only someone with the list admin or list
moderator password can retrieve the roster, you may be unnecessarily
inconveniencing yourself to have both.

You don't say if your list has archives, but addresses in archives
aren't very secure even when obscured and addresses in signatures
aren't obscured in the "downloadable version". If you have archives
you may want to consider making them private and not overriding the
following Defaults.py settings:

  ARCHIVER_OBSCURES_EMAILADDRS = Yes
  PUBLIC_MBOX = No

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From htian at ias.edu  Tue Nov 30 18:29:53 2004
From: htian at ias.edu (Hong Jiang Tian)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 12:29:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo.py
Message-ID: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664FE@PICO>

Hi,
When accessing the listinfo web page, it mentioned that "If you are having
trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at mailman_hostname". 
I needed to change the above email address from mailman at mailman_hostname to
another email address such as admin_person at our_domain_name. I tried to
modify /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py, but I didn't know how use
Link function.
Link('mailto:' + siteowner, siteowner)

Does anyone knows how to modify Link function to another email address?

Thanks for your help!
Hong



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 30 18:57:39 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 09:57:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mail not being delivered and consultants wanted?
In-Reply-To: <0I7Z00511Z41MV@a34-mta01.direcway.com>
Message-ID: <PC172320041130095739031217986f9f@msapiro>

Anne Shroeder wrote:

>We've recently had multiple problems with our mailman installation
>(currently hosted externally but hopefully soon to be moved in house) and
>the most recent one is that mail is simply not delivered - most of the time.
>Some messages seem to get through, but most do not.  Because I don't have
>access to the server, I have to rely on the consultant who runs it to track
>things down and he is not available 24/7 and when I'm getting yelled at by
>my boss. 
>
>My questions:  
>(1) Is there a common cause for mail to disappear into the ether

The FAQ articles on this are aimed at making lists work initially so
wouldn't be much help in this case. For mail to suddenly stop on a
working installation (assuming recent 2.1.x), I think one or more
qrunners would have to stop and not be restarted by the master, or
there would be some problem with the MTA or the network. As to what
the underlying cause might be, I think this would require looking at
logs, etc and some detective work.

Most of the above would not cause "mail to disappear into the ether".
It would usually be queued somewhere and eventually be delivered when
the problem is fixed.

>(2) Are there companies or teams of consultants who do provide 24/7 support
>for mailman installations?  

If you're looking for someone to host and support your lists, you could
google "mailman hosting". Also see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/moinmoin/PythonHosting

If you're looking for someone to contract to support your own Mailman
installation on a 24/7 basis, I have no idea. Perhaps others on this
list have information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Nov 30 19:23:40 2004
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 10:23:40 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] listinfo.py
In-Reply-To: <9B3CEA6AE680D41190DB00508B0EA5DC058664FE@PICO>
Message-ID: <PC172320041130102340018719ba6f03@msapiro>

Hong Jiang Tian wrote:
>
>When accessing the listinfo web page, it mentioned that "If you are having
>trouble using the lists, please contact mailman at mailman_hostname". 
>I needed to change the above email address from mailman at mailman_hostname to
>another email address such as admin_person at our_domain_name. I tried to
>modify /usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Cgi/listinfo.py, but I didn't know how use
>Link function.
>Link('mailto:' + siteowner, siteowner)
>
>Does anyone knows how to modify Link function to another email address?

  Link(arg1, arg2)

creats an anchor tag of the form

 <a href="arg1">arg2</a>

+ is a string concatenation so in the above, 'mailto:' + siteowner is
just the concatenation of the literal string mailto: with the string
which is the value of siteowner.

Thus, in the above you could replace the siteowner occurrences with the
literal string 'admin_person at our_domain_name' or you could replace

 siteowner = Utils.get_site_email()

a few lines above with

 siteowner = 'admin_person at our_domain_name'

BUT.....

Changing this code is not a good way to do this. The siteowner address
is the address of the site list - mailman at mailman_hostname in your
case. The way to accomplish what you want is just to subscribe the
address admin_person at our_domain_name to the mailman at mailman_hostname
list.

By doing it in this latter way as intended, you can change the
recipient(s) just by changing the membership of the site list. If you
change the code, you have to keep changing it, and you have to
remember to change it again anytime you install a Mailman upgrade.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at olympus.net  Tue Nov 30 20:32:18 2004
From: jwblist at olympus.net (John W. Baxter)
Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2004 11:32:18 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Stopping Spam
In-Reply-To: <41AC4AD2.1010305@brightworks.com>
Message-ID: <BDD20AC2.18B80%jwblist@olympus.net>

On 11/30/2004 2:26, "Douglas McCarroll" <douglas at brightworks.com> wrote:

> It really surprises me that the vast majority of lists (including this one!)
> blithely send out posters' email addresses to all subscribers. Of course,
> having 
> an anonymous list means that posters have to sign their emails, or no one
> knows 
> who sent them.  :)

Mailing lists are intended (most of them) to facilitate communication.
Hiding addresses doesn't help do that.

Wise mailing list subscribers either use old (pre-spam) addresses which have
long since been ruined anyhow (such as the one I'm using in this list) or
throw-away addresses from one of the free webmail providers for subscribing
to lists.

One approach is to encourage your list subscribers to do the same.

Despite the fact that jwblist at olympus.net is widely available (1510 hits in
Google just now), there are only 15 messages sitting in my Spam folder
(purged after 7 days) at the moment.  And a trickle into the In box, some
legit and some spam my ISP missed (at this instant, there's a weekly mailing
list and a fraudulant lottery winner message [which came through tiscali.fr]
in the In box).

  --John