[Mailman-Users] Fwd: Bounce action notification

Mark Sapiro msapiro at value.net
Fri Nov 4 07:41:15 CET 2005

Jared Rimer wrote:
>         I don't understand this bounce message.  Which one of these 
>addresses are bouncing?  It disabled the owner again as you'll 
>see.  I'll be looking for responses.  Thanks.

I'm snipping a lot of stuff out, but Here's what is happening (I
think). A list post is sent to <joannasimon at sbcglobal.net> and it
bounces because <joannasimon at sbcglobal.net> does not accept mail from
addresses not in her address book. In order for the post to be
accepted, some address, maybe <woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com> (the
From:) or maybe <woodlake_el_school-bounces at wbby.us> (the envelope
sender) has to be in her address book. Maybe only a specific one will
work or maybe either one would work. In any case, that's beside the
point here.

The bounce is returned to <woodlake_el_school-bounces at wbby.us> as it
should be, but the bounce processor doesn't recognize the format so it
tries to forward the unrecognized bounce to the list owner
<Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us> and from <mailman-bounces at wbby.us>.
Now at this point I'm unsure, but it looks like Mailman's SMTP
delivery queued the message directly as a bounce as it will if it gets
a failure directly from the outgoing MTA.

The outgoing message then gets queued as a bounce for
<Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us>. BounceRunner claims to recognize
this case, but I'm not clear on exactly how it scores this for
<woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com>, but it appears that it does. This
happens enough times to disable the member and the disable gets sent
from <mailman at wbby.us> and envelope sender
<mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com> to
<Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us> and it ultimately is delivered to
<jrimer at tagline.cc> who is apparently an owner.

Here's the final bounce action notification saying
<woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com> has been disabled.

>>X-Persona: <tagline account>
>>Received: (qmail 10256 invoked by uid 89); 4 Nov 2005 03:22:39 -0000
>>Received: from idea5.anoeticconcepts.com (
>>   by 0 with SMTP; 4 Nov 2005 03:22:39 -0000
>>Received: from localhost ([] helo=idea5.anoeticconcepts.com)
>>         by idea5.anoeticconcepts.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52)
>>         id 1EXs9x-00020H-CN
>>         for jrimer at tagline.cc; Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:22:33 -0600
>>Received: from localhost ([] helo=idea5.anoeticconcepts.com)
>>         by idea5.anoeticconcepts.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52)
>>         id 1EXs9w-000208-4M
>>         for Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us; Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:22:32 -0600
>>Subject: Bounce action notification
>>From: mailman at wbby.us
>>To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0904254664=="
>>Message-ID: <mailman.1.1131074551.10650.woodlake_el_school_wbby.us at wbby.us>
>>Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:22:31 -0600
>>Precedence: bulk
>>X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
>>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
>>List-Id: <woodlake_el_school_wbby.us.wbby.us>
>>X-List-Administrivia: yes
>>Sender: mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>>Errors-To: mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>>X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it 
>>with any abuse report
>>X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>>X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - tagline.cc
>>X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
>>X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - idea5.anoeticconcepts.com
>>X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on wmailapp7-l3.webley
>>X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=7.0 tests=BAYES_00,NO_REAL_NAME
>>         autolearn=no version=3.0.3
>>This is a Mailman mailing list bounce action notice:
>>     List:       Woodlake_el_school
>>     Member:     woodlake_el_school at yahoo.com
>>     Action:     Subscription disabled.
>>     Reason:     Excessive or fatal bounces.
>>The triggering bounce notice is attached below.
>>Questions? Contact the Mailman site administrator at mailman at wbby.us.

This is the attached, triggering bounce, which was apparently queued
directly as a bounce during attempted delivery because there are no
received headers. It is a typical Uncaught bounce notification that
for some reason was itself undeliverable at the Mailman to Exim stage.
To see why, you need to look at Exim logs or Mailman's smtp-failure
log for entries around Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:08:53 -0600.

>>Subject: Uncaught bounce notification
>>From: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>>To: Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us
>>MIME-Version: 1.0
>>Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0800201456=="
>>Message-ID: <mailman.0.1131073733.10646.woodlake_el_school_wbby.us at wbby.us>
>>Date: Thu, 03 Nov 2005 21:08:53 -0600
>>Precedence: bulk
>>X-BeenThere: Woodlake_el_school at wbby.us
>>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.6
>>List-Id: <woodlake_el_school_wbby.us.wbby.us>
>>X-List-Administrivia: yes
>>Sender: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>>Errors-To: mailman-bounces at wbby.us
>>The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce
>>format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted
>>from it.  This mailing list has been configured to send all
>>unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s).

The rest of this message including attached bounce is snipped.

Why is this message undeliverable to <Woodlake_el_school-owner at wbby.us>
when the disable notice is delivered successfully to the same address?
The logs will say for sure, but what I see is the envelope sender is
different. Here it is <mailman-bounces at wbby.us> (a virtual domain) and
in the disable notice it is
<mailman-bounces at idea5.anoeticconcepts.com> (the main host domain?).
Perhaps Exim is configured in such a way that it doesn't accept mail
from <mailman-bounces at wbby.us>, although it does accept mail from
<Woodlake_el_school-bounces at wbby.us> as evidenced by the original post.

You need to see the log entries to know for sure what the problem is.

Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

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