From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Sat Apr  1 04:55:20 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:25:20 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Eudora email box into archives
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0603311855i69af7b2dhed8a9aa08cdb6849@mail.gmail.com>

hi

I have the archives of a mailing list in my Eudora mailbox [with
attachments]. Is there anyway I could import it into Mailman archives?

--
--
B.G. Mahesh


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  1 06:01:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 20:01:21 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Eudora email box into archives
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0603311855i69af7b2dhed8a9aa08cdb6849@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006033120012102817ac34e6e@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:
>
>I have the archives of a mailing list in my Eudora mailbox [with
>attachments]. Is there anyway I could import it into Mailman archives?

bin/arch will probably do it.

I would do the following steps. First

bin/cleanarch < eudora.mbx > temp.mbox

Then it depends on whether or not there are existing Mailman archives
for the list, and if so, whether it is important to preserve the
existing message numbers in this archive. Basically, you want to
concatenate the existing archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox
file if any and the temp.mbox created above.

If preserving message numbers is not a priority, it is best to do

cat temp.mbox archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox > temp2.mbox
cp temp2.mbox archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox

which will leave archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox in
cronological sequence, but if you want to preserve message numbers,
you need to add temp.mbox to the end.

In either case, you then do

bin/arch --wipe listname

to totally rebuild the Pipermail archive from the default
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox.

You could just do the first step above and then do

bin/arch listname temp.mbox

To add the messages in temp.mbox to the existing listname Pipermail
archive, but then you have the archive split between two mbox files
which makes searching and subsequent rebuilding awkward.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  1 07:30:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:30:34 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Eudora email box into archives
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0603312038y3deacc0fxb5dc4eaba51c96fa@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200603312130340500a8abef36@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:
>
>Cool, I will try it out. How to preserve the attachments?

This is a problem.

I looked more closely at a Eudora .mbx file and I see that the MIME
structure of the messages is not preserved. The messages are
'flattened' - the outer Content-Type: header is preserved, but all
boundaries and part headers are removed and non-text attachments are
stored aside with a pointer left in the message.

Thus, the messages in the Eudora .mbx file are vaguely similar to
messages that have been scrubbed by Mailman's Scrubber.py module,
except the Content-Type: of the Eudora message is no longer correct
which will probably confuse the Mailman bin/arch process.

Thus, converting the Eudora .mbx will probably require a fairly
involved script. I'm not aware of an existing one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rebalesjr at charter.net  Sat Apr  1 20:51:33 2006
From: rebalesjr at charter.net (Bob Bales)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:51:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Eudora email box into archives
References: <PC1740200603312130340500a8abef36@msapiro>
Message-ID: <009601c655bd$72e94d30$6401a8c0@main>

What does it mean when a message is kocked back due to:

>Cause: Message has implicit destination

Thanks,
Bob


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Sat Apr  1 21:33:55 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2006 11:33:55 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Importing Eudora email box into archives
In-Reply-To: <009601c655bd$72e94d30$6401a8c0@main>
References: <PC1740200603312130340500a8abef36@msapiro>
	<009601c655bd$72e94d30$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060401113149.08fd1190@crimson-dragon.com>

Bob Bales did speak thusly:
>What does it mean when a message is kocked back due to:
>
> >Cause: Message has implicit destination
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

This means that the list address was not explicitly on the To: line 
of the e-mail header and was probably included as a Bcc:



Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr  1 21:41:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:41:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <009601c655bd$72e94d30$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604011141150109b58f2e9c@msapiro>

Bob Bales wrote:

>What does it mean when a message is kocked back due to:
>
>>Cause: Message has implicit destination


It means that Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination is Yes and neither the list
posting address nor any acceptable_aliases were found in the To: or
Cc: headers of the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From papadop at peak.org  Sat Apr  1 21:50:02 2006
From: papadop at peak.org (MichaelP)
Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 11:50:02 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Implicit destination
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604011141150109b58f2e9c@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604011141150109b58f2e9c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0604011145080.9915@shell.peak.org>

It also that some listserves won't respond when their address is listed 
bcc: . It's a total pain that a sender who prefers addressing to lists of 
bcc: addresses has to persuade the owner of some mailman lists to 
reconfigure so as to accept posting to their list under bcc;  the 
alternative is to post separately to such lists  -- which means 
identiofying which owners don't care about other posters privacy wishes.

Michael 

=================

Bob Bales wrote:

>What does it mean when a message is kocked back due to:
>
>>Cause: Message has implicit destination


It means that Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination is Yes and neither the list
posting address nor any acceptable_aliases were found in the To: or
Cc: headers of the post.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/papadop%40peak.org

Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From kaja at daimi.au.dk  Sun Apr  2 18:15:42 2006
From: kaja at daimi.au.dk (Kaja P. Christiansen)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:15:42 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Solved] Importing Archives Not Working
Message-ID: <1143994542.442ff8ae7c7d5@webmail.daimi.au.dk>


Karl Zander wrote:

> The python code from Mark below worked nicley to convert
> the date formats.  My imported archives are visiable in
> Mailman.

I've followed this thread, as Mailman site administrator at two different
sites (and continents :) and will try to see whether it may help me to
integrate Mailman and HtDig for the last two releases of Mailman (that is,
2.1.7 & 2.1.81b).

This said, I'd like to express many thanks and much appreciation to
Richard Barret in UK for providing the Mailman/HtDig integration patches
up to and including Mailman v. 2.1.6. The patches worked 'out of the box'
and the quality of the searchable archives they produced was superior to
what we see on this list (imho).

Does anyone on this list has a working email address for Richard Barrett?

Regards
Kaja




From dikim at osl.iu.edu  Mon Apr  3 00:03:50 2006
From: dikim at osl.iu.edu (DongInn Kim)
Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2006 18:03:50 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn off wraping a line
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200603311128420343996c4801@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200603311128420343996c4801@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44304A46.5060206@osl.iu.edu>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your answer.
Yes, I don't care about 'header folding' but 'body folding'.
My issue occurred because we believe that MUA and MTA have setup not to
wrap any long lines but mailman somehow wraps them up.
So, I am looking for any thing to turn off this feature on mailman.
Can this be done on mm_cfg.py or do I have to tweak some codes
(especially Mailman/Utils.py)?

Regards,

-- DongInn
Mark Sapiro wrote:

>DongInn Kim wrote:
>  
>
>>Is there a simple configuration to turn off the functionality of
>>wrapping a line in a mail?
>>    
>>
>
>
>If you're talking about 'header folding', then no, there is no option
>to stop Mailman from doing this.
>
>If you're talking about folding lines in the body of the message, I
>don't know anywhere in Mailman where folding would be done except
>maybe in content filtering html to plain text conversion. Folding is
>more likely being done by the poster's MUA, the recipients MUA or if
>the lines are really long by some MTA in the path to and from Mailman.
>It's possible (I haven't looked into it) that Mailman folds really
>long lines too. Note that by 'really long' I mean longer than the RFC
>2821/2822 limit of 998 characters plus <CR LF>.
>
>  
>


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 02:14:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 17:14:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turn off wraping a line
In-Reply-To: <44304A46.5060206@osl.iu.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040217144105620f839f7b@msapiro>

DongInn Kim wrote:
>
>Thanks for your answer.
>Yes, I don't care about 'header folding' but 'body folding'.
>My issue occurred because we believe that MUA and MTA have setup not to
>wrap any long lines but mailman somehow wraps them up.


How long are these lines before and after wrapping?

If you look for example at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-March/050215.html>
you will see a post with a 740 character line that isn't wrapped.


>So, I am looking for any thing to turn off this feature on mailman.
>Can this be done on mm_cfg.py or do I have to tweak some codes
>(especially Mailman/Utils.py)?


There is no mm_cfg.py setting for this. In fact, I don't think there is
anything in the mailman code at all that does this intentionally, so I
can't tell you where to look.

If the lists Non-digest options->scrub-nondigest is set to Yes, you
might try setting it to No to see if that makes a difference (if so,
you would then look at Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tarney at dodo.com.au  Mon Apr  3 05:46:38 2006
From: tarney at dodo.com.au (Tim Arney)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:46:38 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Receiving Bounces
Message-ID: <06b301c656d1$36e74e80$d800a8c0@Newton>

Hi,

I use Mailman 2.1.6 to manage the mailing list on my domain, which is configured using cPanel.  It seems a lot of members aren't receiving my posts, and according to my server support team bounces are being received, but from what I can see MM can't be configured to forward all bounces to the list administrator.  Is there a way around this?

Any help would be appreciated,
Tim

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 06:49:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 21:49:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Receiving Bounces
In-Reply-To: <06b301c656d1$36e74e80$d800a8c0@Newton>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040221495403950f839ee1@msapiro>

Tim Arney wrote:
>
>I use Mailman 2.1.6 to manage the mailing list on my domain, which is configured using cPanel.  It seems a lot of members aren't receiving my posts, and according to my server support team bounces are being received, but from what I can see MM can't be configured to forward all bounces to the list administrator.  Is there a way around this?


Mailman can be configured to forward all unrecognized bounces to the
list admin (bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner Yes).

Assuming bounce processing is turned on for the list, bounces which are
recognized just increment the bounce score for the bouncing user. When
the user's score reaches the threshold one of two things happens
depending on the setting of VERP_PROBES. If VERP_PROBES has its
Defaults.py value of No, delivery is disabled for the user and if
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, a copy of the disabling bounce
is sent to the list admin, or if VERP_PROBES = Yes in mm_cfg.py, the
users bounce score is reset and a VERPed probe is sent to the user,
and if that bounces, delivery is disabled for the user and if
bounce_notify_owner_on_disable is Yes, a copy of the disabling bounce
is sent to the list admin.

So no. In general you don't see all bounces, but if you want to see
them, be sure all the bounce notifications are on and set
bounce_score_threshold to 0.5. Then the first bounce for a user will
result in a disable and the bounce will be forwarded to the admin and
you can see why it bounced.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tsnorthj at yahoo.com  Mon Apr  3 15:43:41 2006
From: tsnorthj at yahoo.com (ts North)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 06:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] UnicodeError in admindb interface
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006033110515000153386ba41@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060403134341.18101.qmail@web53415.mail.yahoo.com>



Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
 
 
     >> I run several mailing lists under Mailman 2.1.6.  Recently one
     >> of my mailing lists received 2 spam messages, I was able to
     >> delete one of them using the moderator admindb interface, but
     >> when I tried to delete the second message, I got the "hit a
     >> bug" page (traceback is listed below).
     >>
     >> At that point I: ran check_db and check_perms, restarted the
     >> daemon, cleared out the locks.  No luck.
 
 
     MS> Restarting mailman shouldn't have been required. If you
     MS> 'cleared locks' you may now have multiple instances of the
     MS> same qrunners running. This needs to be addressed - see
     MS> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.
 
 
     >> I found the heldmsg in data/ and deleted the message manually,
     >> which seems to have made matters worse.  Now when I access the
     >> admindb web page for the mailing list, it throws the error
     >> right away
     >> before displaying the admindb page (same traceback as before).
     >>  I suspect I may have not deleted everything I need to delete.
 
 
     MS> That's right. You also need to delete the
     MS> lists/listname/request.pck that contains the request and
     MS> points to the now non-existent heldmsg file.
 
 Mark,
 
 This did the trick.  Thanks!
 
 
 
     >> I have considered upgrading to 2.1.7, but thought I should
     >> resolve this issue first.
 
 
     MS> I'm not sure if the underlying issue is fixed in 2.1.7 or
     MS> not. At this point, I would advise going to 2.1.8 (rc1 should
     MS> be released this weekend).
 
 
 
 Will monitor if any additional spam cause the unicode error
 again and, if so,  will test under 2.1.8rc1.
 
 Thanks,
 
 -Tom
 
 

		
---------------------------------
Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great rates starting at 1&cent;/min.

From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 17:49:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:49:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Bouncing a user repeatedly.
In-Reply-To: <1144101267.2318.4.camel@julius>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604030849540453a3494e3b@msapiro>

P.I.Julius wrote:

>On Thu, 2006-03-30 at 08:28 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>> 
>> This may say that Mailman is actually trying to send just to
>> cva34.internetdsl.tpnet.pl or p43n152.172.63.ruraltel.net. This may be
>> some loop involved in rejecting messages or some kind of 'denial of
>> service' attack on your server. You never mentioned messages incomming
>> to Mailman. Are there any?
>
>Yes they are, more than a lot.
>
>> 
>> If you look at the list's Privacy options generic_nonmember_action and
>> header_filter_rules actions if any, are these set to Reject? If so,
>> try changing them to Hold or Discard and see what happens (Hold will
>> give more information if this is the problem).
>> 
>
>generic_nonmember_action is set to Discard, but I cant find any
>header_filter_rules. 


If you mean you can't find where header_filter_rules is, it's under
Privacy options->Spam filters. If you mean there aren't any rules
specified, then that's not part of the problem.


>Anyway: i just got an email from one of my friend and he said the only
>way to stop this is to stop mailman and after that delete the specified
>messages from the qfiles directory. Could this be a bug?

Maybe. I can't say what the problem is without knowing more about the
incoming messages.

I suggest 'bin/mailmanctl stop', then 'ls -lR qfiles/' to see what is
in what queues. Normally, I would suggest bin/show_qfiles to look at
the individual files, but pre-2.1.8a1 show_qfiles has a bug. There is
a patch at
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1444447&group_id=103&atid=100103>,
or you can use bin/dumpdb.

If you find unwanted messages in qfiles/in, qfiles/out, qfiles/command
and/or qfiles/virgin (I think those are the only places they would
be), move the .pck files out of those directories, but save them for
analysis. We would want to see what the various messages look like.

Then do 'bin/mailmanctl start' to start Mailman. Note that even when
Mailman is stopped, new posts and requests will be added to the in/
and command/ queues as messages arrive, so you can't just blindly
empty the queues as some of the entries will be wanted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From KTaylor at federalworking.com  Mon Apr  3 17:59:58 2006
From: KTaylor at federalworking.com (Kent Taylor)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:59:58 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
References: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D996@X.fwg.local>
Message-ID: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D997@X.fwg.local>

I'm attempting to install Mailman 2.1.8b1 on Solaris 10 - "configure" works - "make" works - "make install" does not. I checked the lists and found that I'm not the only person to have this problem - Unfortunately, the other person's solution was to revert to Solaris 8 - I really don't want to do that. The "make install" error is "command '/sgnome/tools/x86-solaris/forte/SOS8/SUNWspro/bin/cc' failed with exit status 2" trying to compile "src/hangul.c" - Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.
/kpt
 


From KTaylor at federalworking.com  Mon Apr  3 17:55:49 2006
From: KTaylor at federalworking.com (Kent Taylor)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:55:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Installation on Solaris 10
Message-ID: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D996@X.fwg.local>

I'm attempting to install Mailman 2.1.8b1 on Solaris 10 - "configure" works - "make" works - "make install" does not. The problem seems to a Python issue - I checked the Python lists and found that I'm not the only person to have this problem - Unfortunately, the other person's solution was to revert to Solaris 8 - I really don't want to do that. The "make install" error is "command '/sgnome/tools/x86-solaris/forte/SOS8/SUNWspro/bin/cc' failed with exit status 2" trying to compile "src/hangul.c" - Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.
/kpt
 


From scott at fyrenice.com  Mon Apr  3 18:12:36 2006
From: scott at fyrenice.com (Dr. Scott S. Jones)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:12:36 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing unwanted guests, et al
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604030849540453a3494e3b@msapiro>
References: <1144101267.2318.4.camel@julius>
	<PC1740200604030849540453a3494e3b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060403161236.GA12332@xmission.com>

Here's my dilemma. I get tons of SPAM/PHISHING attacks at my email inbox. I
am tired of deleting so much crap every day.

I have SA and clamav installed, but perhaps I don't have them configured.
Would anyone here be willing to share their mix of tools and how they
implement them to fight this. 

On a more Mailman-specific note, I have a list, 2ls at mydomain.com set up for
my wife's business, and I constantly get bounce notices, from all sorts of
strange people trying to post to her list. I likely receive 20 to 40 per
day, just to her list. How do I deflect those, or is just the fact that
Mailman is bouncing them and not letting through, evidence enough that it's
working? 

Doc




From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 18:33:11 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 22:03:11 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0604030933w1d7bf652j98f9f91d16520198@mail.gmail.com>

hi

How do check how many [and who] members are in HELD state? It would be nice
to see something like

Normal: xx
Held: yy
Unsubscribed: zz
Waiting for confirmation: aa


--
--
B.G. Mahesh


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 18:38:11 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:38:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing unwanted guests, et al
In-Reply-To: <20060403161236.GA12332@xmission.com>
References: <1144101267.2318.4.camel@julius>
	<PC1740200604030849540453a3494e3b@msapiro>
	<20060403161236.GA12332@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604030938q46a78373vf63ac8ca1ebdcde@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Dr. Scott S. Jones <scott at fyrenice.com> wrote:
> Here's my dilemma. I get tons of SPAM/PHISHING attacks at my email inbox. I
> am tired of deleting so much crap every day.
>
> I have SA and clamav installed, but perhaps I don't have them configured.
> Would anyone here be willing to share their mix of tools and how they
> implement them to fight this.
>
This isn't really a place to ask this... but you already seem to know
that. Thus:
How you integrate SA and clamav into your system depends on what mail
server you're running. The easiest way (I think) is to do this through
Procmail (which still requires some mail server support). Procmail
lets you define rules for handling messages. E.g., you can have a rule
for all messages that scans them with clamav and spamassassin, and
then a rule for messages that SA marks as spam (i.e., adds a header
like X-Spam: Yes or somesuch) to be discarded.

> On a more Mailman-specific note, I have a list, 2ls at mydomain.com set up for
> my wife's business, and I constantly get bounce notices, from all sorts of
> strange people trying to post to her list. I likely receive 20 to 40 per
> day, just to her list. How do I deflect those, or is just the fact that
> Mailman is bouncing them and not letting through, evidence enough that it's
> working?
My suggestion above works for this as well. You can use procmail rules
along with spamassassin to pre-filter posts to your list and discard
any that are blatantly spam. That said, the fact that you're getting
the notifications, rather than getting spammy posts to the list, means
that mailman is doing its job in this regard. Any improvements you
make will just result in less spam for you.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From tarney at dodo.com.au  Mon Apr  3 18:46:06 2006
From: tarney at dodo.com.au (Tim Arney)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 02:46:06 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-disabling all members
References: <PC17402006040221495403950f839ee1@msapiro>
Message-ID: <006301c6573e$1a72fc50$d800a8c0@Newton>

Hi,

I was having problems where not all members were receiving posts, so I set 
my bounce_score_threshold to 0.5 so that I would receive all the bounces by 
disabling members on the first bounce.  It then turned out that all members 
that were on a domain different to mine were bouncing because of a 
configuration error on Exim.  That's been resolved now, but all of my 
members have been disabled.  I was wondering if there's a way to 
automatically un-disable all the members, ideally through the web interface 
or through some email command?  If that's not possible, is there some sort 
of shell command that I can ask my domain host to execute?

Regards,
Tim 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 18:56:05 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:56:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-disabling all members
In-Reply-To: <006301c6573e$1a72fc50$d800a8c0@Newton>
References: <PC17402006040221495403950f839ee1@msapiro>
	<006301c6573e$1a72fc50$d800a8c0@Newton>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604030956w7c7056a0ke1155dac788d1a3b@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Tim Arney <tarney at dodo.com.au> wrote:
> members have been disabled.  I was wondering if there's a way to
> automatically un-disable all the members, ideally through the web interface
> or through some email command?  If that's not possible, is there some sort
> of shell command that I can ask my domain host to execute?
It might not be effective if you have a large list, but you can do
this through the Admin interface, through Membership Management >
Membership List.

There is probably some with_list magic or somesuch that can be used,
as well, but I'll let someone more capable suggest something here.

Also, if you aren't worried about individualized settings (e.g.,
digest), it shouldn't be very difficult to extract a list of addresses
from the Membership List page, which you can then pass to Mass Removal
and Mass Subscribe, in turn. I'd hold off on this, though, until
you've considered other options.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Mon Apr  3 18:36:26 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 11:36:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
Message-ID: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>

I am not able to figure out why my script is not running which I have 
setup with cron.  I created a script, which I made executable and placed 
in the /etc/cron.daily directory.  Cron is running but my script never 
executes.  Can someone help me figure out why?

-- 
Jewel





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 19:11:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:11:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D997@X.fwg.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040310114809215f8b9f09@msapiro>

Kent Taylor wrote:

>I'm attempting to install Mailman 2.1.8b1 on Solaris 10 - "configure" works - "make" works - "make install" does not. I checked the lists and found that I'm not the only person to have this problem - Unfortunately, the other person's solution was to revert to Solaris 8 - I really don't want to do that. The "make install" error is "command '/sgnome/tools/x86-solaris/forte/SOS8/SUNWspro/bin/cc' failed with exit status 2" trying to compile "src/hangul.c" - Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

I'm only guessing as a workaround that might not work or might cause
other problems, but if you look at misc/Makefile in the unpack
directory, you'll see

SHELL=		/bin/sh
PYTHONLIBDIR=	$(prefix)/pythonlib
SETUPINSTOPTS=	--install-lib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
		--install-purelib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
		--install-data $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR)
SETUPCMD=	setup.py --quiet install $(SETUPINSTOPTS)
PKGDIR= 	$(srcdir)

Try adding a line to SETUPINSTOPTS so it becomes

SETUPINSTOPTS=	--install-lib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
		--install-purelib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
		--without-extension \
		--install-data $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 19:13:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:13:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
In-Reply-To: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>
References: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604031013x4e27f543pab4a7b3b2de43af7@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Jewel <jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu> wrote:
> in the /etc/cron.daily directory.  Cron is running but my script never
> executes.  Can someone help me figure out why?

Check your /var/log/syslog for messages from cron indicating why it
may not have run your script. Also, check your /etc/crontab to be
certain that the appropriate entries exist to run the scripts in
cron.daily.

That said, this message doesn't really apply to Mailman (even if this
is some mailman script you're working on, it's still a CRON issue.)
You ought to find out who wrote your version of cron and contact them,
or try a general help list.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 19:13:49 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 12:13:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
In-Reply-To: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>
References: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604031013x4e27f543pab4a7b3b2de43af7@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Jewel <jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu> wrote:
> in the /etc/cron.daily directory.  Cron is running but my script never
> executes.  Can someone help me figure out why?

Check your /var/log/syslog for messages from cron indicating why it
may not have run your script. Also, check your /etc/crontab to be
certain that the appropriate entries exist to run the scripts in
cron.daily.

That said, this message doesn't really apply to Mailman (even if this
is some mailman script you're working on, it's still a CRON issue.)
You ought to find out who wrote your version of cron and contact them,
or try a general help list.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From KTaylor at federalworking.com  Mon Apr  3 19:22:37 2006
From: KTaylor at federalworking.com (Kent Taylor)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:22:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
References: <PC17402006040310114809215f8b9f09@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D99E@X.fwg.local>

Thank you Mark. I get an "option --without-extension not recognized" error.
/kpt
 

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 1:11 PM
To: Kent Taylor; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10



Kent Taylor wrote:

>I'm attempting to install Mailman 2.1.8b1 on Solaris 10 - "configure" works - "make" works - "make install" does not. I checked the lists and found that I'm not the only person to have this problem - Unfortunately, the other person's solution was to revert to Solaris 8 - I really don't want to do that. The "make install" error is "command '/sgnome/tools/x86-solaris/forte/SOS8/SUNWspro/bin/cc' failed with exit status 2" trying to compile "src/hangul.c" - Any assistance would be appreciated. Thank you.

I'm only guessing as a workaround that might not work or might cause
other problems, but if you look at misc/Makefile in the unpack
directory, you'll see

SHELL=          /bin/sh
PYTHONLIBDIR=   $(prefix)/pythonlib
SETUPINSTOPTS=  --install-lib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
                --install-purelib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
                --install-data $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR)
SETUPCMD=       setup.py --quiet install $(SETUPINSTOPTS)
PKGDIR=         $(srcdir)

Try adding a line to SETUPINSTOPTS so it becomes

SETUPINSTOPTS=  --install-lib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
                --install-purelib $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR) \
                --without-extension \
                --install-data $(DESTDIR)$(PYTHONLIBDIR)

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 19:28:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:28:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
In-Reply-To: <44314F0A.3000502@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040310283908438ed202d2@msapiro>

Jewel wrote:

>I am not able to figure out why my script is not running which I have 
>setup with cron.  I created a script, which I made executable and placed 
>in the /etc/cron.daily directory.  Cron is running but my script never 
>executes.  Can someone help me figure out why?


Do the other scripts in /etc/cron.daily run?

This is not the normal way to run a script with cron. The normal way is
to put an entry in the crontab of the user that specifies what to run
and when. See 'man crontab' and 'man 5 crontab'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 19:40:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:40:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D99E@X.fwg.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040310402708908ed202f5@msapiro>

Kent Taylor wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark. I get an "option --without-extension not recognized" error.

I think that comes from the Japanese codecs setup which is run with the
same command and doesn't like the option, so instead try editing
misc/KoreanCodecs-2.0.5/setup.py and replacing

       ext_modules = flavors['extension'] and [
           Extension("korean.c._koco", ["src/_koco.c"]),
           Extension("korean.c.hangul", ["src/hangul.c"]),
       ] or [])

at the end of the module with

       ext_modules = [])

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From KTaylor at federalworking.com  Mon Apr  3 19:47:33 2006
From: KTaylor at federalworking.com (Kent Taylor)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:47:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
References: <PC17402006040310402708908ed202f5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D9A1@X.fwg.local>

Thank you again. Same "option --without-extension not recognized" error.
/kpt
 

 
________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 1:40 PM
To: Kent Taylor; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10



Kent Taylor wrote:
>
>Thank you Mark. I get an "option --without-extension not recognized" error.

I think that comes from the Japanese codecs setup which is run with the
same command and doesn't like the option, so instead try editing
misc/KoreanCodecs-2.0.5/setup.py and replacing

       ext_modules = flavors['extension'] and [
           Extension("korean.c._koco", ["src/_koco.c"]),
           Extension("korean.c.hangul", ["src/hangul.c"]),
       ] or [])

at the end of the module with

       ext_modules = [])

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 19:50:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 10:50:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] bouncing unwanted guests, et al
In-Reply-To: <20060403161236.GA12332@xmission.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604031050320968de5a6c88@msapiro>

Dr. Scott S. Jones wrote:
>
>On a more Mailman-specific note, I have a list, 2ls at mydomain.com set up for
>my wife's business, and I constantly get bounce notices, from all sorts of
>strange people trying to post to her list. I likely receive 20 to 40 per
>day, just to her list. How do I deflect those, or is just the fact that
>Mailman is bouncing them and not letting through, evidence enough that it's
>working? 


What are these notices? If they are "unrecognized bounces", they may
result from spam to the list-bounces address. If so, filtering before
they reach Mailman will help. You can also just turn off
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner for the list. They can also be
unrecognized real bounces resulting from rejects or holds of posts by
non-members. Pre-filtering will help here too as will discarding
rather than holding or rejecting non-member posts if you want to go
that route.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 20:00:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:00:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Un-disabling all members
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604030956w7c7056a0ke1155dac788d1a3b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060403110043064049f1c80b@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 4/3/06, Tim Arney <tarney at dodo.com.au> wrote:
>> members have been disabled.  I was wondering if there's a way to
>> automatically un-disable all the members, ideally through the web interface
>> or through some email command?


There's no email or web way to to this automatically.


>>If that's not possible, is there some sort
>> of shell command that I can ask my domain host to execute?
<snip>
>
>There is probably some with_list magic or somesuch that can be used,
>as well

Yes, there is withlist magic. See the post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-February/049447.html>
for the withlist script, complete with instructions. This will have to
be run as a command on the Mailman host box by either the mailman user
or root.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 20:03:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:03:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
In-Reply-To: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D9A1@X.fwg.local>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040311035901095f8b9be8@msapiro>

Kent Taylor wrote:
>
>Thank you again. Same "option --without-extension not recognized" error.

in response to "... so instead try editing ..."


By which I meant put the Makefile back the way it originally was and
then edit the Korean setup.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 20:17:46 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:17:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0604030933w1d7bf652j98f9f91d16520198@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040311174603433040afa5@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:
>
>How do check how many [and who] members are in HELD state?


If HELD means 'nomail' or 'delivery disabled',

bin/list_members --nomail

or

bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce

or see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>


>It would be nice
>to see something like
>
>Normal: xx
>Held: yy

Does this mean delivery disabled?


>Unsubscribed: zz

How do I identify an unsubscribed member? Isn't that an oxymoron?


>Waiting for confirmation: aa

What is this? A pending subscription?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From KTaylor at federalworking.com  Mon Apr  3 20:21:07 2006
From: KTaylor at federalworking.com (Kent Taylor)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:21:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10
References: <PC17402006040311035901095f8b9be8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4019801A047A7647BBE1783F5132415719D9A3@X.fwg.local>

Oh, sorry. Done. Back to the original error now. Thank you once again.
/kpt
 

________________________________

From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net]
Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 2:03 PM
To: Kent Taylor; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: RE: [Mailman-Users] Problem Installing on Solaris 10



Kent Taylor wrote:
>
>Thank you again. Same "option --without-extension not recognized" error.

in response to "... so instead try editing ..."


By which I meant put the Makefile back the way it originally was and
then edit the Korean setup.py.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan





From cpz at tuunq.com  Mon Apr  3 20:25:21 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 11:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006040310283908438ed202d2@msapiro> from Mark Sapiro at
	"Apr 3, 2006 10:28:39 am"
Message-ID: <20060403182522.4424F7AF@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Do the other scripts in /etc/cron.daily run?
> 
> This is not the normal way to run a script with cron. The normal way is
> to put an entry in the crontab of the user that specifies what to run
> and when. See 'man crontab' and 'man 5 crontab'.

In some versions of linux, it is used to run things hourly/daily/
weekly/monthly.  I see it in both suse and redhat with things like
logrotate, tripwire, and makewhatis. OTOH, none of my bsd systems are set 
up this way.

Either way, it's not really a mailman question.

z!


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr  3 21:55:14 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:55:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cron setup
In-Reply-To: <20060403182522.4424F7AF@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <PC17402006040310283908438ed202d2@msapiro>
	<20060403182522.4424F7AF@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604031255v2694e187k9f379991ad4c35a@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:
> In some versions of linux, it is used to run things hourly/daily/
> weekly/monthly.  I see it in both suse and redhat with things like
> logrotate, tripwire, and makewhatis. OTOH, none of my bsd systems are set
> up this way.
For the sake of posterity, Debian also includes these directories, and
the "run-parts" commands in /etc/crontab to make the magic happen.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From paitkenhead at draper.com  Mon Apr  3 19:39:41 2006
From: paitkenhead at draper.com (Paul Aitkenhead)
Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2006 13:39:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert customized Reply-To in welcome letter?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060403132152.035aa5b0@imap.draper.com>

My list serves a membership whose cross-section
could be described as "casual" residential computer
users that won't pay close attention to written instructions
and have little patience when learning
technology that is new to them.

Very frequently, they'll receive their new member
acknowledgement letter and they'll attempt to
do their first post by simply replying to it... which
sends something to mylist-request at mydomain.com.
Then they take offense over the resulting confusion and
they won't use it again.

I am aware that it is possible to send a customizable
autoresponder for mail received on the -request queue.
The trouble with that is that I, as administrator,  won't learn
about the incident so I don't have opportunity to do
some damage control and take the edge off of
any offense the new user may take, and explain more
to the new user on a personal basis.

So... my thought is to put a Reply-To header in the
welcome letter that simply refers to my own email. That
way, if they make the mistake of replying to the welcome
letter I can catch it and handle as I see fit.

Can you tell me where to look in the code to make this
change, that is, put a Reply-To header in the welcome
letter.



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr  3 23:42:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 14:42:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Insert customized Reply-To in welcome letter?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060403132152.035aa5b0@imap.draper.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604031442400640be44d768@msapiro>

Paul Aitkenhead wrote:
>
>So... my thought is to put a Reply-To header in the
>welcome letter that simply refers to my own email. That
>way, if they make the mistake of replying to the welcome
>letter I can catch it and handle as I see fit.
>
>Can you tell me where to look in the code to make this
>change, that is, put a Reply-To header in the welcome
>letter.


There are a couple of ways to do this. You could look at the
UserNotification class in Mailman/Message.py and in it's __init__()
method, add another argument, say replyto=None, to the end of the
argument list and then add

        if replyto:
            self['Reply-To'] = replyto

to the body of the definition.

Then in Mailman/Deliverer.py in the definition of SendSubscribeAck(),
you could change

        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

to

        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetRequestEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser, self.GetOwnerEmail())

to add Reply-To: list-owner at ... to the message.

Or, you could not change UserNotification at all and just change the
call in SendSubscribeAck to

        msg = Message.UserNotification(
            self.GetMemberAdminEmail(name), self.GetOwnerEmail(),
            _('Welcome to the "%(realname)s" mailing list%(digmode)s'),
            text, pluser)

to make the message be From: list-owner at ...

Of course, either of these will affect all lists in this installation.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mschlaudraff at gopnetworks.com  Mon Apr  3 19:00:54 2006
From: mschlaudraff at gopnetworks.com (Mark Schlaudraff)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 13:00:54 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Please Advise...
Message-ID: <008801c65740$2d0036b0$8452fb0a@FLHouse.int>

Hello,

First MailMan is a great system and I have just now after a very long time using the system ran until an issue.

Setup a new list and when we sent out a message on it, it was repeated to the members upwards of 15 times.

Please advise what you think could have made this happen as for I have never had this happen before.

Mark Schlaudraff

From Edith at buyabutterfly.com  Sun Apr  2 13:18:53 2006
From: Edith at buyabutterfly.com (Edith)
Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 07:18:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
Message-ID: <20060404010220.488771E4005@bag.python.org>

Thanks so much for the free mailing lists!  We thoroughly enjoy your
generosity.

 

I have a subscriber who has not been receiving his digest for several weeks.
He said he has checked and it is not blocked from his end.  I unsubscribed
him and resubscribed him but he still isn't receiving digests.

 

Is there a helps page we can visit to see what the problem may be?

 

Thank you, Edith Smith

 

 

 

ButterflyMarket mailing list . ButterflyFarming    asc at tznet.com
<http://butterflymarket.com/mailman/options/butterflyfarming_butterflymarket
.com/asc--at--tznet.com>  Richard Breen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't forget to order your free butterfly eggs and free butterfly plant
seeds!

 

Edith Smith

Shady Oak Butterfly Farm

Butterflies for Every Occasion!

Celebratory Releases ~ Easter Releases ~ Memorial Releases

Graduation Releases ~ Baby and Bridal Shower Releases ~ Anniversary Releases

Teacher and Student Projects ~ 4-H and Science Fair Projects ~ Home School
Projects

 

352-485-2459              12876 SW CR 231, Brooker, FL  32622

 

 <http://www.buyabutterfly.com/> www.buyabutterfly.com
<http://www.butterflybride.com/> www.butterflybride.com
<http://www.freebutterflyeggs.com/> www.freebutterflyeggs.com
<http://www.teachingwithmonarchs.com/> www.teachingwithmonarchs.com
<http://www.memorialbutterflies.com/> www.memorialbutterflies.com
<http://www.butterfliesandprayers.com/> www.butterfliesandprayers.com

 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  4 03:18:23 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 18:18:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question
In-Reply-To: <20060404010220.488771E4005@bag.python.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060403181823064030d5bcb7@msapiro>

Edith wrote:
>
>I have a subscriber who has not been receiving his digest for several weeks.
>He said he has checked and it is not blocked from his end.  I unsubscribed
>him and resubscribed him but he still isn't receiving digests.

If this is only one subscriber and the list is working normally for
others including other digest subscribers, then it is almost certainly
a mail delivery problem outside of Mailman.

To diagnose the problem, you need to look at things like Mailman's
'bounce' and 'smtp-failure' logs and the logs of the outgoing MTA. If
your Mailman is hosted somewhere, this is something the hosting
provider would have to do.

Even the above logs may not reveal any problem as the mail may be
blocked or discarded, regardless of what his ISP told him, without
notice back to the sender.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Tue Apr  4 04:12:08 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:42:08 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006040311174603433040afa5@msapiro>
References: <5227ac5c0604030933w1d7bf652j98f9f91d16520198@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006040311174603433040afa5@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0604031912r75c67828ka73992d266dad69a@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> BG Mahesh wrote:
> >
> >How do check how many [and who] members are in HELD state?
>
>
> If HELD means 'nomail' or 'delivery disabled',


Yes, problem is that I am using Lyris lingo. Had been using it for 7 years
before switching over to  Mailman

bin/list_members --nomail
>
> or
>
> bin/list_members --nomail=bybounce
>
> or see
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>
>
>
> >It would be nice
> >to see something like
> >
> >Normal: xx
> >Held: yy
>
> Does this mean delivery disabled?


Yes

>Unsubscribed: zz
>
> How do I identify an unsubscribed member? Isn't that an oxymoron?


In Lyris unless you delete the member  the unsusbscribed info also is in
the  database.

>Waiting for confirmation: aa
>
> What is this? A pending subscription?


Yes, pending subscription.

Can the list owner get a weekly report by email of the activity [how many
signed  on/off etc]?


--
--
B.G. Mahesh


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr  4 05:30:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:30:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0604031912r75c67828ka73992d266dad69a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040320301404068cab7824@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:

>On 4/3/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> BG Mahesh wrote:
>>
>> >It would be nice
>> >to see something like
>> >
>> >Normal: xx
>> >Held: yy
>>
>> Does this mean delivery disabled?
>
>
>Yes
>
>>Unsubscribed: zz
>>
>> How do I identify an unsubscribed member? Isn't that an oxymoron?
>
>
>In Lyris unless you delete the member  the unsusbscribed info also is in
>the  database.
>
>>Waiting for confirmation: aa
>>
>> What is this? A pending subscription?
>
>
>Yes, pending subscription.
>
>Can the list owner get a weekly report by email of the activity [how many
>signed  on/off etc]?


It would be possible to modify the bin/list_members script to produce a
report similar to the above showing the numbers of list members in
different categories and the number of pending subscriptions although
this last information would be obtained differently from the
membership categories. The modified script could email results to the
list-owner address for example and could be run periodically via cron.
I'm not aware of any existing script for this.

List activity of various types would have to be gleaned from Mailman's
log files. Brad Knowles has developed a Mailman Daily Status Report
script, the latest version of which is in Mailman 2.1.8b1 in the
contrib directory along with a readme or in CVS at
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/contrib/>. This
is a Bourne shell script that could serve as an exampl of other kinds
of log analysis that can be done.
 
-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Tue Apr  4 12:27:55 2006
From: stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Stefan Friedel)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:27:55 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] sorry - please ignore my last email
Message-ID: <20060404102755.GD2097@woyzeck>

...for whatever reason I didn't receive the answer from 20th March - just found
it in the archive now (after posting the same question again:-/)

Thanks for the answer to Mark Shapiro + Best Regards, Stefan Friedel
-- 
Zentrale Dienste - Interdisziplin?res Zentrum f?r Wissenschaftliches
Rechnen der Universit?t Heidelberg - IWR - INF 368, 69120 Heidelberg
stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Tel +49 6221 54-8240 Fax -5224
IWR: www.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de          HELICS: www.helics.uni-hd.de
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From stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Tue Apr  4 11:30:02 2006
From: stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de (Stefan Friedel)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:30:02 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] format error in qrunner
Message-ID: <20060404093001.GC2097@woyzeck>

Good Morning,
every now and then we observe that qrunner is dying w/ something like

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 270, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner", line 230, in main
    qrunner.run()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 87, in run
    self._cleanup()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 220, in _cleanup
    BounceMixin._cleanup(self)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 132, in _cleanup
    self._register_bounces()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/BounceRunner.py", line 120, in _register_bounces
    mlist.registerBounce(addr, msg, day=day)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Bouncer.py", line 131, in registerBounce
    time.strftime('%d-%b-%Y', day + (0,)*6))
ValueError: day of year out of range

Obviously a not-so-well-(known/formatted) date specifier is disturbing the
qrunner - any hint?

Best Regards, Stefan Friedel
-- 
Zentrale Dienste - Interdisziplin?res Zentrum f?r Wissenschaftliches
Rechnen der Universit?t Heidelberg - IWR - INF 368, 69120 Heidelberg
stefan.friedel at iwr.uni-heidelberg.de  Tel +49 6221 54-8240 Fax -5224
IWR: www.iwr.uni-heidelberg.de          HELICS: www.helics.uni-hd.de
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From scarroy at sandia.gov  Tue Apr  4 20:52:38 2006
From: scarroy at sandia.gov (Arroyo, Steven C)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:52:38 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list configuration problems..
Message-ID: <59886BD9013A7D46B98882911FE91B350197803E@ES21SNLNT.srn.sandia.gov>

Hopefully this will be easy. I wasn't able to find any help in the list
archives. 
Basics: Solaris 2.8;  mailman 2.1.7;  python 2.4.2; apache 1.3.28 in ssl
mode, httpd.conf > "Group commerce";
 
Problem: Changes to lists are not working. Example, changing Privacy
Option > Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action > to "Hold" from
"Accept". Then select "Submit Your Changes" on the admin web page, and
the change doesn't take on the admin page or the pck file. However the
config.pck files appear to have been updated: (current date 4/4 12:40pm)
 
-rw-rw----   1 commerce nofiles     3652 Apr  4 12:40 config.pck
-rw-rw----   1 commerce nofiles     3652 Apr  4 12:35 config.pck.last
-rwxrwxrwx   1 mailman  nofiles       24 Mar 30 14:19 request.pck
 
Then check with dumpdb:  dumpdb config.pck|grep generic
'generic_nonmember_action': 0,  (and in this example I wanted it to be
1)
 
No error logged in ../mailman/logs or apache/logs;  Check_perms comes up
clean. I can modify list attributes with config_list.
 
Any help is appreciated.
 
 

 
 


From kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se  Tue Apr  4 22:29:52 2006
From: kim.leandersson at chs.chalmers.se (Kim Leandersson)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:29:52 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] send lots of mail to one server?
Message-ID: <78C3380FC84D724287837FD9A8EFC02F014148BC@vera.chs.chalmers.se>

Hello,

I will soon send an anounce to around 8500 people and my first thougt
was to put all those in a mailman list, mail this list and then mailman
will divide this into nice little chunks so that the mail is being sent
to a reasonable amount of people at the same time. How well will this
work if 99% of the people are located at the same server? How big chunks
and how fast will mailman deliver to my MTA (postfix)? Are there any
good options to tune to get the mail to be sent out slow so that the
receiving mail server don't treat me as a spammer (which I'm not :)

//kim


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  5 00:00:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:00:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman list configuration problems..
In-Reply-To: <59886BD9013A7D46B98882911FE91B350197803E@ES21SNLNT.srn.sandia.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604041500270484a0a93c7f@msapiro>

Arroyo, Steven C wrote:
> 
>Problem: Changes to lists are not working. Example, changing Privacy
>Option > Sender Filters > generic_nonmember_action > to "Hold" from
>"Accept". Then select "Submit Your Changes" on the admin web page, and
>the change doesn't take on the admin page or the pck file. However the
>config.pck files appear to have been updated: (current date 4/4 12:40pm)

Have you looked at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  5 00:17:09 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 15:17:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] send lots of mail to one server?
In-Reply-To: <78C3380FC84D724287837FD9A8EFC02F014148BC@vera.chs.chalmers.se>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604041517090171a0a93b34@msapiro>

Kim Leandersson wrote:
>
>I will soon send an anounce to around 8500 people and my first thougt
>was to put all those in a mailman list, mail this list and then mailman
>will divide this into nice little chunks so that the mail is being sent
>to a reasonable amount of people at the same time. How well will this
>work if 99% of the people are located at the same server? How big chunks
>and how fast will mailman deliver to my MTA (postfix)?


With totally default settings, Mailman will send 1 message with 500
recipients and repeat this aproximately 17 times until all recipients
have been sent. It will send to Postfix as fast as Postfix accepts the
data and responds. There are no throttling controls in Mailman.

If you set VERP_DELIVERY_INTERVAL = 1 in mm_cfg.py or set the list's
personalize attribute on (requires OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION =
Yes in mm_cfg.py), Mailman will send a separate message to each
recipient. You can also set SMTP_MAX_RCPTS to a number other than 500
in mm_cfg.py.


>Are there any
>good options to tune to get the mail to be sent out slow so that the
>receiving mail server don't treat me as a spammer (which I'm not :)


This should be addressed in your MTA if possible. Other than the above,
there are no real controls in Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chadj at ljnetconsultants.com  Wed Apr  5 02:25:07 2006
From: chadj at ljnetconsultants.com (Chad Jackson)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 02:25:07 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple virtual domains on apache each with a
	mailing list.
Message-ID: <1144196707.6040.18.camel@chadj>

I have a need to setup more than one of my virtual hosting customers
with a maillist. I have searched through the FAQ but am unable to find
anything regarding this issue. If I have missed it I would like to be
pointed in the right direction and If not here is my problem.

I have a web server with multiple domains each for a different customer.
At this stage I have one customer with a mailing list, although I have
not started subscribing members until I have this issue resolved. I now
have an additional two sites that wish to have a mailing list service.

The problem is I have configured general at abc.com and would now like to
create general at def.com and general at xyz.com. If I use the url from
abc.com www.abc.com/mailman/listinfo/general and substitute the abc with
def, I still get the abc info for general. I do expect this to happen as
the config files are configured for abc. 

The question is how do I seperate out the lists and domains so that each
customer gets their own list information. Is this possible, and is so is
there a config page where I can egt more info. I am using apache and
postfix for my webserver and mail server. 

any help would be apreciated


From bgmahesh at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 04:42:43 2006
From: bgmahesh at gmail.com (BG Mahesh)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 08:12:43 +0530
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006040320301404068cab7824@msapiro>
References: <5227ac5c0604031912r75c67828ka73992d266dad69a@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006040320301404068cab7824@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5227ac5c0604041942s5017eb97xa73325cae623b701@mail.gmail.com>

Would it be advisable to upgrade now itself or wait for the stable version?
But is there a WEB interface for viewing all these member reports [by date,
name, status]?

List activity of various types would have to be gleaned from Mailman's
> log files. Brad Knowles has developed a Mailman Daily Status Report
> script, the latest version of which is in Mailman 2.1.8b1 in the
> contrib directory along with a readme or in CVS at
> <http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/contrib/>. This
> is a Bourne shell script that could serve as an exampl of other kinds
> of log analysis that can be done.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
--
B.G. Mahesh


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  5 05:36:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 20:36:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Detailed reports of members
In-Reply-To: <5227ac5c0604041942s5017eb97xa73325cae623b701@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060404203607056278e20219@msapiro>

BG Mahesh wrote:

>Would it be advisable to upgrade now itself or wait for the stable version?

I would wait for 2.1.8rc1 which would have been out by now except for a
problem with the sourceforge developer CVS server. It should be out by
this weekend. But, If all you want is the mmdsr script, you can get
the latest one right now from
<http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/mailman/mailman/contrib/>.


>But is there a WEB interface for viewing all these member reports [by date,
>name, status]?


No, there is only the web Membership Management page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr  5 06:07:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 21:07:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple virtual domains on apache each with
	amailing list.
In-Reply-To: <1144196707.6040.18.camel@chadj>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604042107260250c7aba5d4@msapiro>

Chad Jackson wrote:

>I have a need to setup more than one of my virtual hosting customers
>with a maillist. I have searched through the FAQ but am unable to find
>anything regarding this issue. If I have missed it I would like to be
>pointed in the right direction and If not here is my problem.


<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>


>I have a web server with multiple domains each for a different customer.
>At this stage I have one customer with a mailing list, although I have
>not started subscribing members until I have this issue resolved. I now
>have an additional two sites that wish to have a mailing list service.
>
>The problem is I have configured general at abc.com and would now like to
>create general at def.com and general at xyz.com.


This is a problem. Standard Mailman supports multiple, separate
domains, but with the restriction that list names must be globally
unique. If you want to support lists in different domains with the
same list names, you either have to patch Mailman or run multiple
instances of Mailman, one per domain. The above FAQ article points at
some of the patches that have been developed for this. Also see the
post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-developers/2006-March/018629.html>
(I just tried to add a pointer to this to the FAQ, but there has been
an on and off permissions issue with FAQ updates lately which seems to
be on again).


>If I use the url from
>abc.com www.abc.com/mailman/listinfo/general and substitute the abc with
>def, I still get the abc info for general. I do expect this to happen as
>the config files are configured for abc. 
>
>The question is how do I seperate out the lists and domains so that each
>customer gets their own list information. Is this possible, and is so is
>there a config page where I can egt more info. I am using apache and
>postfix for my webserver and mail server. 


Again, if both the abc and def lists are to be named 'general', you
either need to install a separate mailman instance in each domain or
do some patching.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From webmaster at gypsydev.us  Wed Apr  5 17:27:28 2006
From: webmaster at gypsydev.us (Webmaster)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 11:27:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
Message-ID: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>

Hello,

I'm running a VPS which uses CentOS, Cpanel and WHM.

The first problem I encountered with Mailman, I wasn't able to create a 
mail list for a client using cpanel.  I had to go into the Default.py 
file and add my hostname instead of "localhost".  That allowed me to 
create a mail list.

Now I can't send or receive from the list.  I can't even subscribe 
people.  It acts like it is working, but none of my messages get sent, 
none of the people I manually add in the interface appear on the list, I 
never receive any error messages via email or the interface that states 
something is wrong.  I went through and made sure cron and python were 
available/running.  What I found was that mailmanctl and/or qrunner 
wasn't running.  From what I can tell, when I looked in the mailman 
cron, there wasn't anything scheduled other then the monthly reminder 
stuff.
At the advice of the company that I pay for this VPS, I restarted the 
cpanel services.  Here's the results:

Stopping cPanel services:                                  [  OK  ]
Stopping pop3 services:                                    [  OK  ]
Stopping cPanel log services:                              [  OK  ]
Stopping cPanel Chat services:                             [  OK  ]
Stopping Melange Chat services:                            [  OK  ]
Stopping InterChange services:                             [FAILED]
Stopping cPanel ssl services:                              [  OK  ]

Stopping mailman services: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
PID unreadable in: 
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
[Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
Is qrunner even running?

Starting eximstats:                                        [  OK  ]
Starting cPanel services:                                  [  OK  ]
Starting cPanel Log services:                              [  OK  ]
Starting pop3 services:                                    [  OK  ]
Starting cPanel Chat services:                             [  OK  ]
Starting Melange Chat services:                            [  OK  ]
Starting cPanel ssl services:                              [  OK  ]
Starting mailman services: Site list is missing: mailman

Can anyone decipher all of that and maybe make a suggestion on what I 
need to do next to get my mail lists working properly?  It seems there 
is an issue with the qrunner.pid

Thanks,
R


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 18:15:44 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:15:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/06, Webmaster <webmaster at gypsydev.us> wrote:
> Stopping mailman services: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
> PID unreadable in:
> /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
> [Errno 2] No such file or directory:
> '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
> Is qrunner even running?

Either qrunner isn't running (and, thus, doesn't need to be stopped),
OR the .pid file got lost, and you'll need to kill it manually
somehow.

> Starting mailman services: Site list is missing: mailman
Is this the list you're trying to create the first list you've created
on the site?
If so, you're probably going to need to create 'mailman' first. I
actually haven't set up a mailman installation from scratch yet, so I
might be wrong on this.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From webmaster at gypsydev.us  Wed Apr  5 18:34:20 2006
From: webmaster at gypsydev.us (Webmaster)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 12:34:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
	<6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4433F18C.40101@gypsydev.us>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 4/5/06, Webmaster <webmaster at gypsydev.us> wrote:
>  
>
>>Stopping mailman services: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
>>PID unreadable in:
>>/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
>>[Errno 2] No such file or directory:
>>'/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
>>Is qrunner even running?
>>    
>>
>
>Either qrunner isn't running (and, thus, doesn't need to be stopped),
>OR the .pid file got lost, and you'll need to kill it manually
>somehow.
>
>  
>
>>Starting mailman services: Site list is missing: mailman
>>    
>>
>Is this the list you're trying to create the first list you've created
>on the site?
>If so, you're probably going to need to create 'mailman' first. I
>actually haven't set up a mailman installation from scratch yet, so I
>might be wrong on this.
>  
>
Thank you for the reply.  There are only 4 domains on this VPS and yes, 
this is the only list (so far).

As far as above, I think there is no qrunner.pid and that is confusing 
the shutdown process.  I went through and grep'd for qrunner and 
couldn't find it anywhere.

I'll have to research to see if I need to create a master mailman list 
or what exactly that means.

Thanks,
Roger


From tmz at pobox.com  Wed Apr  5 18:48:41 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 12:48:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
Message-ID: <20060405164841.GH31376@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Webmaster wrote:
> I'm running a VPS which uses CentOS, Cpanel and WHM.

See FAQ 6.11 for info on cPanel.

    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp

> The first problem I encountered with Mailman, I wasn't able to create a 
> mail list for a client using cpanel.  I had to go into the Default.py 
> file and add my hostname instead of "localhost".  That allowed me to 
> create a mail list.

You don't want to edit Defaults.py.  Your changes should go into
mm_cfg.py, as stated emphatically at the top of Defaults.py:

    # NEVER make site configuration changes to this file.  ALWAYS make
    # them in mm_cfg.py instead, in the designated area.  See the
    # comments in that file for details.
    
If you don't follow this, your changes will very likely get
overwritten during an update and your setup might stop working
mysteriously.

> At the advice of the company that I pay for this VPS, I restarted the 
> cpanel services.  Here's the results:

Sort of the equivalent of a reboot for windows.  To me that's a sign
that the support folks are punting and hoping a restart will magically
fix a problem they do not understand.  I've had the displeasure of
dealing with more than a few hosting services that run cPanel and have
no clue how to do basic sysadmin on the boxes they have.

> Stopping mailman services: Shutting down Mailman's master qrunner
> PID unreadable in: 
> /usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid
> [Errno 2] No such file or directory: 
> '/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/data/master-qrunner.pid'
> Is qrunner even running?
> 
[...]
> Starting mailman services: Site list is missing: mailman
> 
> Can anyone decipher all of that and maybe make a suggestion on what I 
> need to do next to get my mail lists working properly?  It seems there 
> is an issue with the qrunner.pid

Mailman isn't running, so a restart which calls stop and then start
will fail the stop.  That's the qrunner error you see first.  The
second error you get when mailman tries to start is trying to tell you
that the master site list needs to be created.  If it is not created
as part of the cPanel installation and setup, then you need to create
it.  See the FAQ and docs that come with mailman for details.  It's
covered in good detail there, but the paths will be different for you
on cPanel.  There may well be other issues you run into that are
caused by the way cPanel tries to mask all of the sysadmin tasks for
you.  The support options available to cPanel users (some of which are
listed in the mailman FAQ) might be better places to get specific
guidance on getting mailman running on cPanel.

On a typical mailman installation, you'd simply run

    bin/newlist mailman

as the mailman user to create the site list.

Good luck,

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
There are two kinds of pedestrians -- the quick and the dead.

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Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

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=9I66
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From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 18:56:16 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 11:56:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <4433F18C.40101@gypsydev.us>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
	<6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4433F18C.40101@gypsydev.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604050956p5ce005ddtce65f02ac11b27e@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/06, Webmaster <webmaster at gypsydev.us> wrote:
> I'll have to research to see if I need to create a master mailman list
> or what exactly that means.
>
The process of creating the site list is (briefly) described here:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html

--
- Patrick Bogen


From webmaster at gypsydev.us  Wed Apr  5 20:10:37 2006
From: webmaster at gypsydev.us (Webmaster)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:10:37 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <20060405164841.GH31376@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
	<20060405164841.GH31376@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <4434081D.7090204@gypsydev.us>

Todd Zullinger wrote:

>See FAQ 6.11 for info on cPanel.
>
>    http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.011.htp
>
>You don't want to edit Defaults.py.  Your changes should go into
>mm_cfg.py, as stated emphatically at the top of Defaults.py:
>
>    # NEVER make site configuration changes to this file.  ALWAYS make
>    # them in mm_cfg.py instead, in the designated area.  See the
>    # comments in that file for details.
>    
>If you don't follow this, your changes will very likely get
>overwritten during an update and your setup might stop working
>mysteriously.
>
>  
>
I did see that in the comments of the Defaults.py file.  I was looking 
at that file while talking with the support people.  When I brought that 
to their attention, their statement was "You can't break it anymore then 
it already is".  Now I understand why I should place that in mm_cfg.py.  
I will get that done pronto.

>Sort of the equivalent of a reboot for windows.  To me that's a sign
>that the support folks are punting and hoping a restart will magically
>fix a problem they do not understand.  I've had the displeasure of
>dealing with more than a few hosting services that run cPanel and have
>no clue how to do basic sysadmin on the boxes they have.
>  
>
I'm starting to relate to that, see the tech support comment above  :-)

>
>Mailman isn't running, so a restart which calls stop and then start
>will fail the stop.  That's the qrunner error you see first.  The
>second error you get when mailman tries to start is trying to tell you
>that the master site list needs to be created.  If it is not created
>as part of the cPanel installation and setup, then you need to create
>it.  See the FAQ and docs that come with mailman for details.  It's
>covered in good detail there, but the paths will be different for you
>on cPanel.  There may well be other issues you run into that are
>caused by the way cPanel tries to mask all of the sysadmin tasks for
>you.  The support options available to cPanel users (some of which are
>listed in the mailman FAQ) might be better places to get specific
>guidance on getting mailman running on cPanel.
>
>On a typical mailman installation, you'd simply run
>
>    bin/newlist mailman
>
>as the mailman user to create the site list.
>
>Good luck
>  
>

Thank you, I will give that a try.

I will also look at the cpanel forums.

Thanks,
R




From webmaster at gypsydev.us  Wed Apr  5 20:44:10 2006
From: webmaster at gypsydev.us (Webmaster)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:44:10 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604050956p5ce005ddtce65f02ac11b27e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>	
	<6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>	
	<4433F18C.40101@gypsydev.us>
	<6fbe3da00604050956p5ce005ddtce65f02ac11b27e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44340FFA.9090606@gypsydev.us>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 4/5/06, Webmaster <webmaster at gypsydev.us> wrote:
>  
>
>>I'll have to research to see if I need to create a master mailman list
>>or what exactly that means.
>>
>>    
>>
>The process of creating the site list is (briefly) described here:
>
>http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node40.html
>
>--
>- Patrick Bogen
>
>  
>
Hello,

I've checked out that link.  Seems simple enough.

But it also brought me back to the original document I was using:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp

Notice in step #2 about Aliases.  Here's what I get when I grep mailman 
/etc/aliases  :

mailman-admin: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
mailman"
mailman-bounces: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman 
bounces mailman"
mailman-confirm: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman 
confirm mailman"
mailman-join: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman join 
mailman"
mailman-leave: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
mailman"
mailman-owner: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
mailman"
mailman-request: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman 
request mailman"
mailman-subscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman 
subscribe mailman"
mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman 
unsubscribe mailman"
mailman: /dev/null
mailman-loopback: /dev/null
owner-mailman: mailman-admin

If these are already set, do I still need to create a new site wide mail 
list?  Perhaps these are pointing to a site list that just doesn't 
exist?  Or, do these have nothing to do with each other?

Thanks,
R


From danielbk at ornl.gov  Wed Apr  5 20:52:29 2006
From: danielbk at ornl.gov (Daniel, Barry K.)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 14:52:29 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman integrated with SUN JES Messenger 6.2
Message-ID: <890ECEBADF00794ABC9C94752F4C0CEB01675B28@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Does anyone have experience integrating Mailman with Sun JES Messenger
6.2?  



From schampeo at hesketh.com  Wed Apr  5 20:45:28 2006
From: schampeo at hesketh.com (Steven Champeon)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:45:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Multiple virtual domains on apache each with
	amailing list.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604042107260250c7aba5d4@msapiro>
References: <1144196707.6040.18.camel@chadj>
	<PC1740200604042107260250c7aba5d4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060405184528.GC23230@hesketh.com>

on Tue, Apr 04, 2006 at 09:07:26PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Chad Jackson wrote:
> >The problem is I have configured general at abc.com and would now like to
> >create general at def.com and general at xyz.com.
> 
> This is a problem. Standard Mailman supports multiple, separate
> domains, but with the restriction that list names must be globally
> unique. If you want to support lists in different domains with the
> same list names, you either have to patch Mailman or run multiple
> instances of Mailman, one per domain.

Yeah, but list names and email addresses aren't the same thing; you can
have 'general1' and 'general2' set up such that one of them is addressable
via 'general at example.com' and the other via 'general at example.net'; it's
not a Mailman issue, it's an MTA configuration issue. When I was doing
virtual hosting we did this all the time. In fact, there's an article I
wrote that details how to do it with sendmail:

 http://www.hesketh.com/publications/mailman_made_easy.html

It was originally written for Web Techniques several years ago, so it
is probably out of date, but the virtual hosting/sendmail stuff is all
reasonably current. Dunno how you'd do it if you are using one of them
fancy new Web control panels, tho.

HTH,
Steve

-- 
hesketh.com/inc. v: +1(919)834-2552 f: +1(919)834-2554 w: http://hesketh.com/
antispam news, solutions for sendmail, exim, postfix: http://enemieslist.com/


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr  5 22:57:35 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:57:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <44340FFA.9090606@gypsydev.us>
References: <4433E1E0.8030508@gypsydev.us>
	<6fbe3da00604050915o1bfc58a3l530da212ce9323d0@mail.gmail.com>
	<4433F18C.40101@gypsydev.us>
	<6fbe3da00604050956p5ce005ddtce65f02ac11b27e@mail.gmail.com>
	<44340FFA.9090606@gypsydev.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604051357o56a00786gfb50344c52d65664@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/5/06, Webmaster <webmaster at gypsydev.us> wrote:
> If these are already set, do I still need to create a new site wide mail
> list?  Perhaps these are pointing to a site list that just doesn't
> exist?  Or, do these have nothing to do with each other?

These are, indeed, interrelated. If you *do* have a site list, then,
according to those aliases, it ought to be under something like:
/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/lists/mailman
If this doesn't exist, it's safe to remove those aliases.

Please note that, as a rule, problems with mailman installations under
cpanel should actually be directed to the cpanel folks; as I
understand, they don't do a very good job of installing/configuring
mailman, and configuration problems basically amount to issues with
cpanel, rather than mailman, and so fall outside the expertise of
those of us on mailman-users.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  6 00:09:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:09:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Editing html
In-Reply-To: <44343C3D.7020305@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040515091003433eaa76e1@Notebook>

Jewel wrote:

>I wa able to edit my listinfo.html page, but now I want to edit the
>default page. The page you see when you go to:
>http://lists.washlaw.edu/mailman/listnfo/">
>Is this possible? I simply want to change the color of the banner,
>which I successfully did when you actually click on any list.


I replied to this last week. See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-March/050211.html>.

There is some mm_cfg.py control over colors.

See the "# Web UI defaults" section of Defaults.py for information.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From cwieland at uci.edu  Thu Apr  6 00:23:09 2006
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:23:09 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't remove members
Message-ID: <C07484CF-F738-469F-99D2-4890D05A6D57@uci.edu>

Hello,

Running Mailman version 2.1.4 I am trying to unsubscribe all members  
from a list using:

./remove_members --all cie-info

remove_members -anN cie-info

I get the following error from either.

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
     main()
   File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
     admin_notif, userack)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 954, in  
ApprovedDeleteMember
     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
220, in removeMember
     self.__assertIsMember(member)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
113, in __assertIsMember
     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: ahref=


I have checked the database using

./check_db -v /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info
List: /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info
    /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info/config.pck: okay
    /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info/config.pck.last: okay
    /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info/config.db: okay
    /usr/local/mailman/lists/cie-info/config.db.last: okay


and everything seems fine

I can remove individuals from the web interface or using ./ 
remove_members but not en mass

I also tried:

./remove_members -f cie-info -nN cie-info
No such member: a18devil at hotmail.com
No such member: aabajian at uci.edu
Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
     main()
   File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
     admin_notif, userack)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 954, in  
ApprovedDeleteMember
     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
220, in removeMember
     self.__assertIsMember(member)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
113, in __assertIsMember
     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: ahref=


with the same results.


Any ideas?

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services
University of California at Irvine

From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  6 01:33:52 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:33:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't send or receive via mail lists
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604051357o56a00786gfb50344c52d65664@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604051633520687cc4bb023@Notebook>

Webmaster wrote:

<big snip>
>mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/local/cpanel/3rdparty/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
>mailman: /dev/null

This presumes you don't ever want to post to the site list, which may
or may not be true.

>mailman-loopback: /dev/null
>owner-mailman: mailman-admin

This is wrong. If you have it at all, it should be

owner-mailman: mailman-owner

Since automated bounce processing was added at the beginning of Mailman
2.1, mailman-admin has been deprecated and functions as an alias of
mailman-bounces, not mailman-owner.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  6 02:02:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:02:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] can't remove members
In-Reply-To: <C07484CF-F738-469F-99D2-4890D05A6D57@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006040517020404534a2990a9@Notebook>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>Running Mailman version 2.1.4 I am trying to unsubscribe all members  
>from a list using:
>
>./remove_members --all cie-info
>
>remove_members -anN cie-info

<snip>

>I also tried:
>
>./remove_members -f cie-info -nN cie-info
>No such member: a18devil at hotmail.com
>No such member: aabajian at uci.edu
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "./remove_members", line 186, in ?
>     main()
>   File "./remove_members", line 176, in main
>     admin_notif, userack)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/MailList.py", line 954, in  
>ApprovedDeleteMember
>     self.removeMember(emailaddr)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
>220, in removeMember
>     self.__assertIsMember(member)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/OldStyleMemberships.py", line  
>113, in __assertIsMember
>     raise Errors.NotAMemberError, member
>Mailman.Errors.NotAMemberError: ahref=
>
>
>with the same results.

Presumably, cie-info in '-f cie-info' is the output from
bin/list_members or something similar.

It looks like you have a member with a totally bogus address that maybe
got added by someone pasting some HTML into the list for a mass
subscribe (2.1.4 and prior weren't too good at keeping stuff like this
out).

What do you see if you

grep href= cie-info

You need to make a new members file with list_members and remove any
such bogus entries. Then you can use that as input to remove_members,
and finally see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>
for suggestions on how to remove the bad ones.

Or, since you are deleting everyone, you can just dump the config with
bin/config_list, remove the list (but not the archives) with
bin/rmlist, create a new list with the same name, and configure it
with bin/config_list using the old config as input.

--
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From demonveen at gmail.com  Thu Apr  6 02:47:48 2006
From: demonveen at gmail.com (daniel trejo)
Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:47:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] special characters on mail mass subscription
Message-ID: <997503340604051747r3d504e7bl1ab8a83ce89620e4@mail.gmail.com>

Hello, I live in a spanish-spoken country so some people put either a ? or ?
in their mail addesses, how do I add their addresse via mass subscription
without being rejected?


thanks


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr  6 05:02:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2006 20:02:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] special characters on mail mass subscription
In-Reply-To: <997503340604051747r3d504e7bl1ab8a83ce89620e4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <997503340604051747r3d504e7bl1ab8a83ce89620e4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <443484AB.5000906@value.net>

daniel trejo wrote:
> Hello, I live in a spanish-spoken country so some people put either a ? or ?
> in their mail addesses, how do I add their addresse via mass subscription
> without being rejected?

Assuming you mean these characters are in the 'real name' and not in the
address, the form

"Real ? Name" <address>

should work (i.e. with quotes around the real name).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From friedman at math.ohio-state.edu  Thu Apr  6 08:50:01 2006
From: friedman at math.ohio-state.edu (Harvey Friedman)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 02:50:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] searching Mailman archives
Message-ID: <C05A3259.11F90%friedman@math.ohio-state.edu>

I am on the Editorial Board of an automated email list called FOM. Homepage:
http://www.cs.nyu.edu/mailman/listinfo/fom

Its archives are also freely available on the web:

http://www.cs.nyu.edu/pipermail/fom/

It uses Mailman 2.1.6.

We are totally unsatisfied with using Google site search to search the
Archives.

The following features would be a HUGE improvement over what we have:

1. Type in a name of an author, and it searches first to find the closest
match to the correct full name of an author. Then it lists operational links
to all of these, together with the dates of these postings.

2. Type in a "subject string". It searches to find all postings whose
subject line contains that string. Then it lists operational links to all of
these postings, together with the dates of these postings.

3. Type in a "content string". It searches to find all postings whose
content contains that string. Then it lists operational links to all of
these postings, together with the dates of these postings.

Additional features would be valuable, but not necessary.

Is there such software off the shelf? If not, how many man years would you
estimate would be involved in getting this written and implemented?

Harvey Friedman
University Professor
Ohio State University



From bmw120i at hotmail.com  Thu Apr  6 12:31:58 2006
From: bmw120i at hotmail.com (Paul Bruce)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 20:31:58 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to
Message-ID: <BAY105-F102255E380C7CB6E40C7B7EDC80@phx.gbl>

I just wanted to know if it is possible to set up mailman so that it the To 
Headers actually contain the email address of the recipient instead of the 
alias / email address / bounce address etc... of the list itself.
For instance if I have a list
mylist at mydomain.com

and members of the list are
abc at zyx.com  and
blah at somewhere.com

The list recipients would see the to fields (both to and receipt to) as 
their individual addresses ( either abc at zyx.com   or blah at somewhere.com ) 
and not mylist at mydomain.com

Of course, I only want one address to be in the to (otherwise - why have a 
list)

I ask this because some of my list recipients have strange mail software - I 
think it is called Mdaemon, that seems to parse the headers and decide where 
it is going to send the email.  If an appropriate email address does not 
exist then the Mdaemon does strange things

Thanks in advance

Paul

_________________________________________________________________
Win 1000s of music downloads and Party MeeGos instantly. Play now! 
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From atann at gmx.net  Thu Apr  6 13:43:47 2006
From: atann at gmx.net (Andre Tann)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 13:43:47 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mail to
In-Reply-To: <BAY105-F102255E380C7CB6E40C7B7EDC80@phx.gbl>
References: <BAY105-F102255E380C7CB6E40C7B7EDC80@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <200604061343.47580@inter.netz>

Paul Bruce, Donnerstag, 6. April 2006 12:31: 
> I just wanted to know if it is possible to set up mailman so that
> it the To Headers actually contain the email address of the
> recipient instead of the alias / email address / bounce address
> etc... of the list itself.

Yes. in your mm_cfg.py:

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

Then you can turn on personalization via the web interface. But this 
might increase the load of your mail system significantly, as then 
each mail has to be delivered seperately.

-- 
Andre Tann



From jonas at lintoo.dk  Thu Apr  6 13:54:14 2006
From: jonas at lintoo.dk (Jonas Jacobsen)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 13:54:14 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me; What serve my needs???
Message-ID: <44350166.5050808@lintoo.dk>

Hi Mailman list

I work for af company who recently has started sending out weekly 
newsletters for other companys.

Somtimes over 100000 mail. It is only needed to send the mail out. And 
the most important is the speed.

Is there another listsoftware there is better for "oneway maling" ???

and how many mails, do you think can be sent per hour, with the ringt 
configuration???

-- 
Med venlig hilsen
Jonas Jacobsen

Lintoo I/S
Buchwaldsgade 50
5000 Odense C

kontor: 46935556
mobil: 61656618



From atann at gmx.net  Thu Apr  6 14:31:03 2006
From: atann at gmx.net (Andre Tann)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 14:31:03 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me; What serve my needs???
In-Reply-To: <44350166.5050808@lintoo.dk>
References: <44350166.5050808@lintoo.dk>
Message-ID: <200604061431.03456@inter.netz>

Jonas Jacobsen, Donnerstag, 6. April 2006 13:54: 

> Somtimes over 100000 mail. It is only needed to send the mail
> out. And the most important is the speed.

I don't think that mailman is the bottle neck. It's more the MTA 
with all it's DNS lookups and other time consuming things.


> and how many mails, do you think can be sent per hour, with the
> ringt configuration???

How fast is your internet link? If it's a modem link, it will take a 
while to send out these 100k mail.

-- 
Andre Tann



From paitkenhead at draper.com  Thu Apr  6 15:24:34 2006
From: paitkenhead at draper.com (Paul Aitkenhead)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 09:24:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I change web_page_url config item?
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20060406091743.030f65a0@imap.draper.com>

My server has more than one hostname. My email
headers, and message footers, are not coming up with
the one I want. It traces back to web_page_url in
Mailman/Defaults.py.

I do not see anyplace on the web
admin to alter this.

Is this something I am supposed to
control through mm_cfg.py?
  



From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Apr  6 18:22:53 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:22:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help me; What serve my needs???
In-Reply-To: <44350166.5050808@lintoo.dk> from Jonas Jacobsen at "Apr 6, 2006
	01:54:14 pm"
Message-ID: <20060406162254.41B827AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jonas Jacobsen wrote:

> Somtimes over 100000 mail. It is only needed to send the mail out. And 
> the most important is the speed.

> Is there another listsoftware there is better for "oneway maling" ???

Maybe, but mailman does it quite well.

> and how many mails, do you think can be sent per hour, with the ringt 
> configuration???

Largely depends on the MTA and net connection.

> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/

Check the FAQ for "performance", "large lists", and other similar words.

z!


From cwieland at uci.edu  Thu Apr  6 20:50:44 2006
From: cwieland at uci.edu (Con Wieland)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 11:50:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
Message-ID: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>

Hello,

I'm having trouble with one of my archives. This archive is about 5  
years old and is fairly large. The problem is I recently had to  
remove a message and reindex. When I checked the archives for the  
current month a number of partial messages showed up with no from  
line and no date. These actually turned out to be chunks from some  
very old messages. I am confused though because the original message  
shows up fine and the current month's archive shows an incomplete  
portion of the old message. I'm assuming it's a corrupt message but I  
don't understand why it's showing up in both places. I have a couple  
dozen of these. I don't know if this existed before my last arch  
rebuild.  I have gone through several of these and am not able to see  
anything unusual. I have also checked the messages preceding and  
after the messages in question to no avail.

Any idea's on what to look for would be appreciated.

Con Wieland
Network and Academic Computing Services



From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Thu Apr  6 21:49:27 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2006 12:49:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
In-Reply-To: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>
References: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060406124200.05efae78@crimson-dragon.com>

Con Wieland sent the message below at 11:50 4/6/2006:
>Hello,
>
>I'm having trouble with one of my archives. This archive is about 5
>years old and is fairly large. The problem is I recently had to
>remove a message and reindex. When I checked the archives for the
>current month a number of partial messages showed up with no from
>line and no date. These actually turned out to be chunks from some
>very old messages. I am confused though because the original message
>shows up fine and the current month's archive shows an incomplete
>portion of the old message. I'm assuming it's a corrupt message but I
>don't understand why it's showing up in both places. I have a couple
>dozen of these. I don't know if this existed before my last arch
>rebuild.  I have gone through several of these and am not able to see
>anything unusual. I have also checked the messages preceding and
>after the messages in question to no avail.
>
>Any idea's on what to look for would be appreciated.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

I am just kinda guessing here but there is a caveat somewhere in the 
documentation about pipermail or the arch script that it has trouble 
digesting large MBOX files at a single gulp. It may be that this is 
the cause of the problem, it may not.

It is also stated somewhere in the documentation for either pipermail 
or the arch script that you can specify a start and end index for a 
chunk of messages in the MBOX file. What you could then do is rebuild 
the archive in chunks, say 500 posts at a time to see what happens.

So if you decided 500 was a good number to index, for the first chunk 
you would do:

         bin/arch --wipe --start=1 --end=500 listname

For subsequent chunks you would do (adjusting the start and end 
indexes of course...):

         bin/arch --start=501 --end=1000 listname

Hope that helps.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Fri Apr  7 02:16:52 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 09:16:52 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Released: Mailman 2.1.8 release candidate
Message-ID: <4435AF74.1050607@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

Hi all,

Mailman 2.1.8rc1 was released for the final test of 2.1.8.

Important: This is not only a release candidate but also include a fix 
for a cross-site scripting bug found in 2.1.7.  All sites running 
previous versions are adviced to upgrade to 2.1.8(rc1).  I am going to 
release the final by the next weekend if nothing serious happens.

Please download it from Sourceforge file area:
   http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

Cheers,

Tokio
---------------------------------------------------
Here is a history of user visible changes to Mailman.

2.1.8rc1 (07-Apr-2006)

   Security

     - A cross-site scripting hole in the private archive script of 2.1.7
       has been closed.  Thanks to Moritz Naumann for its discovery.

   Bug fixes and other patches

     - Bouncers support added: 'unknown user', Microsoft SMTPSVC, 
Prodigy.net
       and several others.

     - Updated email library to 2.5.7 which will encode payload into 
qp/base64
       upon setting.  This enabled backing out the scrubber related patches
       including 'X-Mailman-Scrubbed' header in 2.1.7.

     - Fix SpamDetect.py potential hold/reject loop problem.

     - A warning message from email package to the stderr can cause error
       in Logging because stderr may be detached from the process during
       the qrunner run.  We chose not to output errors to stderr but to
       the logs/error if the process is running under mailmanctl subprocess.

     - DKIM header cleansing was separated from Cleanse.py and added to
       -owner messages too.

     - Fixes: Lose Topics when go directly to topics URL (1194419).
       UnicodeError running bin/arch (1395683).  edithtml.py missing import
       (1400128).  Bad escape in cleanarch.  Wrong timezone in list archive
       index pages (1433673).  bin/arch fails with TypeError (1430236).
       Subscription fails with some Language combinations (1435722).
       Postfix delayed notification not recognized (863989).  2.1.7 (VERP)
       mistakes delay notice for bounce (1421285).  show_qfiles: 'str'
       object has no attribute 'as_string' (1444447).  Utils.get_domain()
       wrong if VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW off (1275856).

   Miscellaneous

     - Brad Knowles' mailman daily status report script updated to 0.0.16.


-- 
Tokio Kikuchi, tkikuchi@ is.kochi-u.ac.jp
http://weather.is.kochi-u.ac.jp/





From lists at localguru.de  Fri Apr  7 03:35:53 2006
From: lists at localguru.de (Marcus Sobchak)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 03:35:53 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] encoding problem Umlauts - windows-1258
In-Reply-To: <1143660608.8552.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
References: <1143660608.8552.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1144373753.2067.283.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Am Mittwoch, den 29.03.2006, 21:30 +0200 schrieb Marcus Sobchak:
> I got the following error if some people using MS Outlook send mails
> with german umlauts in the subject. Those mails don't go through! I'm
> using Mailman 2.1.5 on debian woody. Is this a mailman or user side
> problem?

this seems to work fine for me:

 http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=315665

Thanks for helping ;)
Marcus



From milamj at wfu.edu  Fri Apr  7 05:13:42 2006
From: milamj at wfu.edu (Jonathan Milam)
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 23:13:42 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing listserv members via the web
Message-ID: <002301c659f1$47a9ab50$6eb41198@milamj>

Hello!

I wanted to know if it is possible to synchronize listserv members via the
web, instead of using the list_members process?  If so, is there a FAQ that
outlines this process?

Thanks,

Jonathan Milam
Computer Consultant
Wake Forest University




From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr  7 17:00:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:00:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How do I change web_page_url config item?
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20060406091743.030f65a0@imap.draper.com>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20060406091743.030f65a0@imap.draper.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604070800s16215baeia2c77ebb94121067@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/06, Paul Aitkenhead <paitkenhead at draper.com> wrote:
> Is this something I am supposed to
> control through mm_cfg.py?
Yes. See here:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp

Especially, the "Existing versus new lists," section second from the bottom.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From tech at candledark.net  Fri Apr  7 16:47:00 2006
From: tech at candledark.net (Thomas)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:47:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + ensim
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1144412729.31945.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <20060407144513.C9A404FC28@buc3.barbourville.com>

I've looked everywhere and talked to numerous people who either refer me
elsewhere, or back to someone who referred them, and I'm going nuts. The
only documentation I've found on it is obsolete. So, I figure I'd go to the
source, which must be the right choice since no one has yet suggested it.

I've got mailman "running" on a server doing virtual/name based domains
using Ensim Pro. The problem I have is the web interface does not work, but
everything else does. When I go to domain.com/mailman/admin/listhere or any
other page I get the standard 500 error. I don't need mailman integrated
into the control panel, but I do need the web interface working.

Anyone know how to get both programs to play nice?

Thomas



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr  7 17:18:43 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:18:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.2.20060406124200.05efae78@crimson-dragon.com>
References: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060406124200.05efae78@crimson-dragon.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604070818s1c92e26aua21ca0a1d28ebd2d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/6/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> So if you decided 500 was a good number to index, for the first chunk
> you would do:
>
>          bin/arch --wipe --start=1 --end=500 listname
>
> For subsequent chunks you would do (adjusting the start and end
> indexes of course...):
>
>          bin/arch --start=501 --end=1000 listname
>

Bash can do this for you:

#!/bin/bash
bin/arch --wipe
for i in `seq 0 10`
do
    bin/arch --start=$(( 1+$i*500 )) --end=$(( 500+$i*500 )) listname
done

...Assuming that bin/arch --wipe alone does what I think it does.
Also, if you have more than 5500 messages in the mbox file, you'll
need to adjust the second argument in the 'seq' upwards. And, of
course, replace 'listname' with the list name.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From dragon at crimson-dragon.com  Fri Apr  7 17:41:26 2006
From: dragon at crimson-dragon.com (Dragon)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 08:41:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604070818s1c92e26aua21ca0a1d28ebd2d@mail.gmail.co
 m>
References: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>
	<7.0.1.0.2.20060406124200.05efae78@crimson-dragon.com>
	<6fbe3da00604070818s1c92e26aua21ca0a1d28ebd2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7.0.1.0.2.20060407083523.05f7de60@crimson-dragon.com>

Patrick Bogen sent the message below at 08:18 4/7/2006:
>On 4/6/06, Dragon <dragon at crimson-dragon.com> wrote:
> > So if you decided 500 was a good number to index, for the first chunk
> > you would do:
> >
> >          bin/arch --wipe --start=1 --end=500 listname
> >
> > For subsequent chunks you would do (adjusting the start and end
> > indexes of course...):
> >
> >          bin/arch --start=501 --end=1000 listname
> >
>
>Bash can do this for you:
>
>#!/bin/bash
>bin/arch --wipe
>for i in `seq 0 10`
>do
>     bin/arch --start=$(( 1+$i*500 )) --end=$(( 500+$i*500 )) listname
>done
>
>...Assuming that bin/arch --wipe alone does what I think it does.
>Also, if you have more than 5500 messages in the mbox file, you'll
>need to adjust the second argument in the 'seq' upwards. And, of
>course, replace 'listname' with the list name.
---------------- End original message. ---------------------

Or Perl or Python or whatever your favorite scripting language might be...

But that's just icing on the cake and not really a necessity.

The --wipe argument deletes all the old files and builds new ones. 
Which is great but ii did have one unfortunate consequence for me. I 
am using htdig to allow search of my archives and when I rebuilt the 
archives after editing the templates and installing htdig, all of the 
file dates on the messages were set to the date I rebuilt the 
archive. This destroyed the date context for the archive and the file 
dates displayed by the htdig search were not reflecting when the 
message was originally posted.

So, I wrote a small Perl script to "fix" the file dates to match the 
message date in each of the message files. If anyone is interested in 
that script, I would be happy to share it with you. Just e-mail me 
directly and I will send it to you.

Dragon

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  Venimus, Saltavimus, Bibimus (et naribus canium capti sumus)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Fri Apr  7 17:30:25 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 16:30:25 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Description text not appearing in "To:" header?
Message-ID: <B291E14FEBDED4FEC5E987C5@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

I'm working on setting up Mailman at our site to replace an ageing system 
based around another package.  There's lots of 'firsts' involved: Mailman 
and Exim (to date we've been a Sendmail-using site).

Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages 
I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:

  To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk

However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test list" I 
was instead expecting it to be:

    To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>

I've checked that the description setting, which I made through the web 
interface, has 'taken' by displaying the list's configuration using

    bin/config-list -o - testlist

I've also restarted Mailman itself in case that was needed.  (It didn't 
help.)

I don't *think* I've done anything in Exim's setup that would strip the 
real name part from the "To:" header -- I'm using a pretty standared 
exim.conf plus the router and transport changes detailed in the Mailman 
installation guide to direct incoming messages for the lists into Mailman's 
scripts.

My test messages are being delivered out to the list OK ... it's just that 
the "Yo:" header is missing the terse 'description' text.

Can anyone give me any clues/suggestions to try, please?

Cheers,
Mike Brudenell

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From atann at gmx.net  Fri Apr  7 18:19:43 2006
From: atann at gmx.net (Andre Tann)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:19:43 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cc to the list?
Message-ID: <200604071819.43252@inter.netz>

Hello.

I'm running Mailman with the option VERP personalisation turned on. 
This results in mails being generated look like this:

To: atann at gmx.net
Cc: listname at mydom.ain

How can I get rid of the Cc-line? The problem about this is that 
mail clients like kmail reply to the list instead of the author 
mentioned in the From-line, even though I have set 
reply_goes_to_list to "sender".


-- 
Andre Tann



From jonas at lintoo.dk  Fri Apr  7 21:52:56 2006
From: jonas at lintoo.dk (Jonas Jacobsen)
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 21:52:56 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is your injection speed???
Message-ID: <4436C318.2000103@lintoo.dk>

Hi list

I would like to know how fast mailman can inject mails to the postfix 
mail spool??

What is your experiences ??
i would like to hear some numbers. :)

-- 
Med venlig hilsen
Jonas Jacobsen

Lintoo I/S
Buchwaldsgade 50
5000 Odense C

kontor: 46935556
mobil: 61656618



From cpz at tuunq.com  Fri Apr  7 22:26:13 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 13:26:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] What is your injection speed???
In-Reply-To: <4436C318.2000103@lintoo.dk> from Jonas Jacobsen at "Apr 7, 2006
	09:52:56 pm"
Message-ID: <20060407202613.B1DA07AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Jonas Jacobsen wrote:
> I would like to know how fast mailman can inject mails to the postfix 
> mail spool??

I think the bigger question is usually how fast can postfix deliver 
the messages. Mailman will batch the addresses it sends to the MTA, I think
that 500 is the default size batch, and send them as fast as the MTA can
accept them

You may want to read all of section 6 of the FAQ.

z!



From brian at krusic.com  Sat Apr  8 00:35:42 2006
From: brian at krusic.com (Brian Krusic)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 15:35:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non approval lists
Message-ID: <05de01c65a93$9b4b8d30$c800a8c0@kci>

Hi,

When creating a new list, is there a way to allow posting w/o membership or moderator approval?

An example would be a list named jobs where 1 time emails are gotten from who ever and don't need to be approved for posting.

Thanks in advance.



From john.meier at gmail.com  Sat Apr  8 04:56:07 2006
From: john.meier at gmail.com (John Meier)
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 21:56:07 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] large list = very slow network
Message-ID: <65293fcc0604071956y70cb0ad5ybd61e1344ebcfc4f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all-

Pretty new to mailman, and have an "announcement only"  list set up for a
client.  It's been working great for months - they send to 300 - 400 members
a day.  A couple of days ago, they uploaded 50,000 email addresses and sent
out a post.  It brought our T1 to a crawl.  I'd like to avoid this in the
future.  Here's the specs:

mailman + postfix on a compaq dl380 with 2 800 Mhz P3 and 1.5 gig RAM Redhat
4 ES (or AS - can't remember at this point).  resolv.conf points to the
provider's DNS.
We're on a T1 that is shared between two networks - our production and our
office network (192.168.170.  vs. 192.168.160.)  This machine is in our
office network and a couple of folks was pissed when the 50K mailing went
out ;)

The list server and postfix are pretty much out of the box - following the
Mailman setup for postfix.  The postfix MTA also does mail for a different
client (domain), but I'm not doing Mailman/postfix/virtual domains.  The
other client just has 5 local mailboxes - not much volume at all.

I've been reading up on performance tweaking in the mailman FAQ and was
wondering where I should concentrate my efforts to avoid the listserver
saturating my line.  I'm thinking a local dns cache on the box would be
good, but have seen anything that directly addresses how to "slow" the
system down
 to avoid cramming the network.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Apr  8 10:03:12 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 03:03:12 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] large list = very slow network
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0604071956y70cb0ad5ybd61e1344ebcfc4f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <65293fcc0604071956y70cb0ad5ybd61e1344ebcfc4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604080103n2f01da12g30d476554e140c3c@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/7/06, John Meier <john.meier at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've been reading up on performance tweaking in the mailman FAQ and was
> wondering where I should concentrate my efforts to avoid the listserver
> saturating my line.  I'm thinking a local dns cache on the box would be
> good, but have seen anything that directly addresses how to "slow" the
> system down
>  to avoid cramming the network.
This would probably be a good place to start. As I understand, DNS
lookups are one of the more expensive aspects of an MTA's operation.

You should also review your VERP settings; if you look around, I
believe you can find a pretty good analysis of what different values
get you. I'm a bit tired right now, or else I'd make an effort at
pretending like I remember this stuff. ;)

That said, you may want to ask around postfix places and see if you
can get any help from that direction. Mailman doesn't have much
network impact, and you can't really tweak it beyond adjusting VERP.

Make sure that personalization is turned off...

--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Sat Apr  8 10:03:56 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 03:03:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non approval lists
In-Reply-To: <05de01c65a93$9b4b8d30$c800a8c0@kci>
References: <05de01c65a93$9b4b8d30$c800a8c0@kci>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604080103r3390637cy5daaa22916ee6576@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/7/06, Brian Krusic <brian at krusic.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When creating a new list, is there a way to allow posting w/o membership or moderator approval?
You should be able to change the default_nonmember_action, or
somesuch, to 'accept'.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From wash at wananchi.com  Sat Apr  8 10:23:06 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:23:06 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] non approval lists
In-Reply-To: <05de01c65a93$9b4b8d30$c800a8c0@kci>
References: <05de01c65a93$9b4b8d30$c800a8c0@kci>
Message-ID: <20060408082306.GB787@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 07/04/06 15:35 -0700, Brian Krusic wrote:
| Hi,
| 
| When creating a new list, is there a way to allow posting w/o
| membership or moderator approval?
| 
| An example would be a list named jobs where 1 time emails are
| gotten from who ever and don't need to be approved for posting.

You mean even when spammers figure out the name of the list, you
still want to allow them to just post? ;)

Well, just look at the web interface for the list once more. The
option is there!


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From jesse at seedboxconnect.com  Sat Apr  8 22:19:42 2006
From: jesse at seedboxconnect.com (Jesse Sanford)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:19:42 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all posted messages discarded by incomingrunner
Message-ID: <E60DA825-E186-4906-9F91-FC91ED1CCADB@seedboxconnect.com>

Hi,

This is kind of a followup to the Feb. 2006 thread about messages  
being discarded (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006- 
February/049327.html).

Where do I check ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER as per the previous post?  Is  
that a runtime environment variable?

I am using mailman2.1.7, although I have a qmail+vpopmail setup so  
there are actually multiple installs of mailman running on my system  
for various domains.

 From 2.1.5--2.1.7, I've had problems with lists that would appear to  
work and then suddenly start discarding messages.  From the process  
number in logs/vette and the mod dates in the qfiles/ dir I know they  
are being discarded by the IncomingRunner.  But, no log is made  
except for:

Apr 08 12:47:56 2006 (25550) Message discarded, msgid: <FD599F62- 
B408-4A5C-BD2E-AF48E2876BA6 at seedboxconnect.com>

Qmail reports the delivery as successful, cron jobs are running, and  
list config is set to hold postings from nonmembers, so this must be  
an error in parsing.  However, it is intermittent and the list(s)  
will sometimes start working again.  I have checked the cron jobs,  
python and mailmanctl process status, etc.  Other lists are not  
necessarily affected at the same times, but most of my lists are  
sometimes affected.  bin/check_db listname does not find any errors.

Thanks for any help.





--
Jesse Sanford <jesse at seedboxconnect.com>




From dcarvalho at xsmail.com  Sun Apr  9 00:34:08 2006
From: dcarvalho at xsmail.com (Daniel Carvalho)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 23:34:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
Message-ID: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>

hi,

When using the Mailman web-based administration, in the "Membership
list",the result is divided in several pages. There is one page for each
letter, and if the list is too long, it is divided in ranges.

The urls are like this:
/mailman/admin/lista-info_campoaberto.pt/members?letter=g&chunk=2

Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
page? Sometimes this is more convenient.


I would like to know that because i need to write a program to retrieve
the members list, and i think the best way is to acess the site with
http and parse the result. It would be far more simple if it were
everything in a single page... By the way, is there a program available,
that does what i need?

thanks,
daniel



From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Apr  9 01:05:33 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 19:05:33 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>
References: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <20060408230533.GA13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Daniel Carvalho wrote:
> Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
> page? Sometimes this is more convenient.

FAQ 3.62: How do I extract a list of my list's members (subscribers)?

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?query=membership+list&querytype=simple&casefold=yes&req=search

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Learn from the mistakes of others--you can never live long enough to
make them all yourself.
    -- John Luther

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From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Apr  9 01:57:40 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 18:57:40 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
References: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>
	<20060408230533.GA13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <013101c65b68$38a06540$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Todd:

<<Daniel Carvalho wrote:
> Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
> page? Sometimes this is more convenient.

FAQ 3.62: How do I extract a list of my list's members (subscribers)?>>

Although that reply answers ONE of Daniel's question (which you do not
cite), it does not answer the question above.

Reason I KNOW is that I have asked exactly them same question to which Mark
S. hinted would be in 2.1.8..

I also have only Interface Access  and have some List with over a couple
dozen which changes "display" to alphabetic Display ONLY and it IS a
PITA -;) !

Ed



From reinhold at kainhofer.com  Sun Apr  9 02:15:29 2006
From: reinhold at kainhofer.com (Reinhold Kainhofer)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 02:15:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Other subscriptions" page is not showing
	subscriptions for one particular list
Message-ID: <200604090215.32830.reinhold@kainhofer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi all,
I have several mailing lists on a virtual host proscientia.tuwien.ac.at (the 
server also hosts (www.)fam.tuwien.ac.at). 
All users are in two mailinglists, one (proscientia) for all persons, and 
another one (proscientia-<LOCATION>) depending on their city. 

Now my problem is that if a user chooses "List my other subscriptions" in one 
of the proscientia-<LOCATION> lists, then his subscription to proscientia is 
not shown there, only all his subscriptions to proscientia-....
Similarly, if the chooses "List my other subscriptions" in the proscientia 
list, only proscientia is shown, but no proscientia-<LOCATION> subscriptions.

All the lists have exactly the same configuration in the web frontend (apart 
from the name, description and the subscribed members), they use the same 
hostname, etc.

Any ideas what might be the problem?
Are there any "hidden" settings (not available in the web UI), which causes 
the lists to appear disconnected (although the name and email are identical)?

Cheers,
Reinhold

PS: I had similar problems with some kde.org subscriptions a while ago, but 
that seems to work now.
- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna, Austria
email: reinhold at kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at
 * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org/, KOrganizer maintainer
 * Chorvereinigung "Jung-Wien", http://www.jung-wien.at/
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From tmz at pobox.com  Sun Apr  9 02:52:40 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:52:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <013101c65b68$38a06540$6701a8c0@actualshop>
References: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>
	<20060408230533.GA13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
	<013101c65b68$38a06540$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <20060409005240.GB13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ed wrote:
> Todd:
> 
> <<Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>> Is there a way to get all the members of a mailing list in a single
>> page? Sometimes this is more convenient.
> 
> FAQ 3.62: How do I extract a list of my list's members
> (subscribers)?>>
> 
> Although that reply answers ONE of Daniel's question (which you do
> not cite), it does not answer the question above.

Are you discounting the roster option in the FAQ?  Or does the
limitation in that page of not showing hidden members make it useless
for you?

> I also have only Interface Access  and have some List with over a
> couple dozen which changes "display" to alphabetic Display ONLY and
> it IS a PITA -;) !

I don't disagree there.  But I don't use mailman on systems where I
don't have shell access very often, so it doesn't tend to get a chance
to annoy me more than occasionally. :)

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Most of one's life is one prolonged effort to prevent oneself
thinking.
    -- Aldous Huxley

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From justbrits at comcast.net  Sun Apr  9 04:35:13 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 21:35:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
References: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com><20060408230533.GA13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org><013101c65b68$38a06540$6701a8c0@actualshop>
	<20060409005240.GB13059@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <009301c65b7e$3f4cea10$6701a8c0@actualshop>

<<so it doesn't tend to get a chance to annoy me more than occasionally.
:)>>

YOU are lucky -:) !!

Ed



From jesse at seedboxconnect.com  Sun Apr  9 05:19:35 2006
From: jesse at seedboxconnect.com (Jesse Sanford)
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 20:19:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all posted messages discarded by incomingrunner
In-Reply-To: <E60DA825-E186-4906-9F91-FC91ED1CCADB@seedboxconnect.com>
References: <E60DA825-E186-4906-9F91-FC91ED1CCADB@seedboxconnect.com>
Message-ID: <8DDD755A-EADC-4B66-8653-807613A81E66@seedboxconnect.com>


Okay, I figured it out myself.

Just in case anyone else ever runs into this problem:
On my system, spamassassin processes messages
before they hit Mailman and marks them [SPAM] in
the subject line.  Some enterprising but novice users
of mine had figured that if they entered [SPAM] into
header_filter_rules, they could block those messages
automatically. Obviously this did not have the intended
effect. =)

Since I can't teach everyone regular expressions,
I figure I'll set header_filter_rules=\[SPAM\]
myself and then block the display of that whole
configuration option.  I know I've seen the instructions
for that around here somewhere .....



jesse

On Apr 8, 2006, at 13:19, Jesse Sanford wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is kind of a followup to the Feb. 2006 thread about messages
> being discarded (http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-
> February/049327.html).
>
> Where do I check ARCHIVE_HTML_SANITIZER as per the previous post?  Is
> that a runtime environment variable?
>
> I am using mailman2.1.7, although I have a qmail+vpopmail setup so
> there are actually multiple installs of mailman running on my system
> for various domains.
>
>  From 2.1.5--2.1.7, I've had problems with lists that would appear to
> work and then suddenly start discarding messages.  From the process
> number in logs/vette and the mod dates in the qfiles/ dir I know they
> are being discarded by the IncomingRunner.  But, no log is made
> except for:
>
> Apr 08 12:47:56 2006 (25550) Message discarded, msgid: <FD599F62-
> B408-4A5C-BD2E-AF48E2876BA6 at seedboxconnect.com>
>
> Qmail reports the delivery as successful, cron jobs are running, and
> list config is set to hold postings from nonmembers, so this must be
> an error in parsing.  However, it is intermittent and the list(s)
> will sometimes start working again.  I have checked the cron jobs,
> python and mailmanctl process status, etc.  Other lists are not
> necessarily affected at the same times, but most of my lists are
> sometimes affected.  bin/check_db listname does not find any errors.
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jesse Sanford <jesse at seedboxconnect.com>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users% 
> 40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/ 
> jesse%40seedboxconnect.com
>
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Sun Apr  9 05:53:30 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 20:53:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <009301c65b7e$3f4cea10$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <C05DD34A.BCE3%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/8/06 7:35 PM, "Ed" <justbrits at comcast.net> wrote:

> <<so it doesn't tend to get a chance to annoy me more than occasionally.
> :)>>
> 
> YOU are lucky -:) !!
> 

The continuing outcry against the old way was the reason the alphabetic way
was tried.

The old way produced pages of 30--I think--addresses (count was modifiable),
with an index of available address ranges presented on each such page.

For small lists, the two ways are equivalent (except for the odd-looking
one-entry index if the old way showed that--I forget).  For huge lists, the
larger alphabetic pages get broken into parts anyhow, but at least there are
fewer parts to consider.

For in-between sizes, the amount of complaining seems to vary with the
connection speed of the person(s) using the member list.

Various ways to improve matters have been discussed.  I tend to favor
gathering initial characters (not always letters) together to make up one
(configurable-max size) page.  Even fairly large lists might have just one
page devoted to addresses starting with digits, that way.

The modern way would probably be to publish a web service which sends out
the list in XML, and a couple of working sample programs which display
according to different tastes, with the XML described clearly enough that
more display programs would be written (and contributed, one hopes).

  --John




From dcarvalho at xsmail.com  Sun Apr  9 17:55:55 2006
From: dcarvalho at xsmail.com (Daniel Carvalho)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 16:55:55 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <9622C4C7-3D2C-4C50-B3F8-131F84591EA7@music.memphis.edu>
References: <44383A60.7050106@xsmail.com>
	<9622C4C7-3D2C-4C50-B3F8-131F84591EA7@music.memphis.edu>
Message-ID: <44392E8B.5010305@xsmail.com>

Dan Phillips wrote:

> On Apr 8, 2006, at 5:34 PM, Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>
>> I would like to know that because i need to write a program to  retrieve
>> the members list, and i think the best way is to access the site with
>> http and parse the result. It would be far more simple if it were
>> everything in a single page... By the way, is there a program 
>> available,
>> that does what i need?
>
>
> See http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp
>
> A search through the FAQ and this list's archives will also turn up 
> in instrucitons on increasing the size of the chunks in the web 
> interface.
>
> Dan
>

(I hadn't saw that faq! Only a small faq, which is also mentioned in the
Mailman website.)

the scripts didn't work - they always return empty lists... Maybe it's a
problem with the python instalation iin my computer.

I will find the way to increase the chunks and do the parsing myself.

It would be wonderful if there were a webservice interface, as John
suggested. It would be easy to integrate mailman with other applications.

thanks

daniel




From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Apr  9 17:56:07 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 07:56:07 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/mailman/listinfo/ on this server
Message-ID: <20060409155607.M6807@enabled.com>



Hi folks,

Okay I just upgraded to the latest apache 2.2.0 and using the same
configuration files as I had for apache1.3 but I am finding there are
permission errors when going to my mailman listinfo directories.

any clues what I need to check here?

---- actual error message ----

Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /mailman/listinfo/ on this server.
Apache/2.2.0 (FreeBSD) mod_ssl/2.2.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8a DAV/2 PHP/4.4.2 Server at
checkit.domain.com Port 80

---- snip ---

Mailman tells me the permissions are fine.

---- snip ---

hostname# pwd
/usr/local/mailman/bin
hostname# ./check_perms 
No problems found

---- snip ----


ExecCGI is in the permissions for the mailman /cgi-bin

--- snip ---

<Directory /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/>
    Options FollowSymLinks ExecCGI
</Directory>

--- snip --- 


what else could be wrong here?

cheer,s

Noah



From g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw  Sun Apr  9 17:55:10 2006
From: g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw (Fatcat)
Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 23:55:10 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
Message-ID: <44392E5E.3010305@comm.ccu.edu.tw>

Dear all

I get the mail forward by mailman
the mail body as follow

test mail list
_______________________________________________Test mailing
listTest at invo.idv.twhttp
<mailto:listTest at invo.idv.twhttp>://invo.idv.tw/mailman/listinfo/test



the maillist address and the url of mail list are together

May I change the mail format ???



From ler at lerctr.org  Sun Apr  9 18:26:23 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:26:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/mailman/listinfo/ on this server
In-Reply-To: <20060409155607.M6807@enabled.com>
References: <20060409155607.M6807@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <232D6E19-CB08-414D-AB6D-EF76FE6CC427@lerctr.org>


On Apr 9, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Noah wrote:

>
>
> Hi folks,
>
> Okay I just upgraded to the latest apache 2.2.0 and using the same
> configuration files as I had for apache1.3 but I am finding there are
> permission errors when going to my mailman listinfo directories.
>
> any clues what I need to check here?
>
>
>
> what else could be wrong here?

There is a deny from all very high up in the configuration.

You might need to add a allow statement in the <directory> block.



-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893





From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Apr  9 19:01:32 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 09:01:32 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/mailman/listinfo/ on this server
In-Reply-To: <232D6E19-CB08-414D-AB6D-EF76FE6CC427@lerctr.org>
References: <20060409155607.M6807@enabled.com>
	<232D6E19-CB08-414D-AB6D-EF76FE6CC427@lerctr.org>
Message-ID: <20060409170055.M82283@enabled.com>

On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:26:23 -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote
> On Apr 9, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Noah wrote:
> 
> >
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Okay I just upgraded to the latest apache 2.2.0 and using the same
> > configuration files as I had for apache1.3 but I am finding there are
> > permission errors when going to my mailman listinfo directories.
> >
> > any clues what I need to check here?
> >
> >
> >
> > what else could be wrong here?
> 
> There is a deny from all very high up in the configuration.
> 
> You might need to add a allow statement in the <directory> block.



is there a good apache tutorial that explains how the <directory> blocks
should be structured?

cheers,

Noah


> 
> -- 
> Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
> Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
> US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893



From ler at lerctr.org  Sun Apr  9 19:08:09 2006
From: ler at lerctr.org (Larry Rosenman)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:08:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/mailman/listinfo/ on this server
In-Reply-To: <20060409170055.M82283@enabled.com>
References: <20060409155607.M6807@enabled.com>
	<232D6E19-CB08-414D-AB6D-EF76FE6CC427@lerctr.org>
	<20060409170055.M82283@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <0A2E0460-6277-4624-97F0-413F53FDBBC1@lerctr.org>


On Apr 9, 2006, at 12:01 PM, Noah wrote:

> On Sun, 9 Apr 2006 11:26:23 -0500, Larry Rosenman wrote
>> On Apr 9, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Noah wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi folks,
>>>
>>> Okay I just upgraded to the latest apache 2.2.0 and using the same
>>> configuration files as I had for apache1.3 but I am finding there  
>>> are
>>> permission errors when going to my mailman listinfo directories.
>>>
>>> any clues what I need to check here?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> what else could be wrong here?
>>
>> There is a deny from all very high up in the configuration.
>>
>> You might need to add a allow statement in the <directory> block.
>
>
>
> is there a good apache tutorial that explains how the <directory>  
> blocks
> should be structured?

I'd look at the existing configuration.

I'd add a
     order allow,deny
     allow from all

in the mailman/cgi-bin <directory> block.



-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler at lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 01:22:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:22:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
In-Reply-To: <E531BD92-37F3-4CA8-9325-03084BB34E39@uci.edu>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409162234076567bbf13f@msapiro>

Con Wieland wrote:
>
>When I checked the archives for the  
>current month a number of partial messages showed up with no from  
>line and no date.
<snip>>
>Any idea's on what to look for would be appreciated.


Look for messages containing unescaped "From " lines in the body.

The bin/cleanarch script can help with fixing a .mbox file that
contains these.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 01:29:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:29:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] archiving partial duplicates
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604070818s1c92e26aua21ca0a1d28ebd2d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409162921026567bbef3e@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:
>
>Bash can do this for you:
>
>#!/bin/bash
>bin/arch --wipe
<snip>
>
>...Assuming that bin/arch --wipe alone does what I think it does.

It needs to be

bin/arch --wipe listname /dev/null

listname is always required. The next argument is the .mbox file which
defaults to the archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file if
ommitted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 01:43:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 16:43:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] special characters on mail mass subscription
In-Reply-To: <997503340604061429i4d1863cci5944ed924506fd6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409164337042167bbefea@msapiro>

daniel trejowrote:
>
>sorry, I mean the character is in the address, for example:
>api?eyro at mail.com
>mass subscription sends me a hostile character error

That's right. Mailman does not accept any e-mail address containing
spaces or any of the characters

][()<>|;^,\000-\037\177-\377

(older Mailman versions were a little looser about this). Note that
while some of those characters are allowable in local parts, they have
to be properly quoted to be standards compliant, e.g.,
api\?eyro at mail.com or "api?eyro"@mail.com, but Mailman won't accept
them anyway.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 02:05:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:05:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman + ensim
In-Reply-To: <20060407144513.C9A404FC28@buc3.barbourville.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409170539087567bbf1b2@msapiro>

Thomas wrote:

>When I go to domain.com/mailman/admin/listhere or any
>other page I get the standard 500 error.

What standard 500 error? What does the web server log say about this
error. Is the web server properly configured to execute the cgi-bin/
wrappers for domain.com/mailman/* URLs? Is there a group mismatch
error?

See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html> and
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.016.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 02:17:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:17:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Description text not appearing in "To:" header?
In-Reply-To: <B291E14FEBDED4FEC5E987C5@pippin.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409171737093767bbf1ee@msapiro>

Mike Brudenell wrote:
>
>Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages 
>I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:
>
>  To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk


Because that's how you addressed the message you sent.



>However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test list" I 
>was instead expecting it to be:
>
>    To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>


If the list is anonymous, that's what the From: header will look like,
but Mailman doesn't change the To: header unless the list is fully
personalized in which case, the To: becomes the message recipient, not
the list.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 02:34:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:34:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cc to the list?
In-Reply-To: <200604071819.43252@inter.netz>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409173439037567bbefbe@msapiro>

Andre Tann wrote:
>
>I'm running Mailman with the option VERP personalisation turned on. 


I think you mean "full personalization" which is actually independent
of VERP.

 
>This results in mails being generated look like this:
>
>To: atann at gmx.net
>Cc: listname at mydom.ain


By design. Full personalization puts the recipient in the To: header
and the list in Cc: to facilitate replying to the list (with
reply-all).


>How can I get rid of the Cc-line? The problem about this is that 
>mail clients like kmail reply to the list instead of the author 
>mentioned in the From-line, even though I have set 
>reply_goes_to_list to "sender".


If you want to hack Mailman to accommodate this apparently broken MUA,
look at the code in Mailman/Handlers/Cookheaders.py introduced by the
following comments.

  # The To field normally contains the list posting address.  However
  # when messages are fully personalized, that header will get
  # overwritten with the address of the recipient.  We need to get the
  # posting address in one of the recipient headers or they won't be
  # able to reply back to the list.  It's possible the posting address
  # was munged into the Reply-To header, but if not, we'll add it to a
  # Cc header.  BAW: should we force it into a Reply-To header in the
  # above code?
  # Also skip Cc if this is an anonymous list as list posting address
  # is already in From and Reply-To in this case.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 02:48:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:48:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] large list = very slow network
In-Reply-To: <65293fcc0604071956y70cb0ad5ybd61e1344ebcfc4f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409174840029867bbef72@msapiro>

John Meier wrote:
>
>I've been reading up on performance tweaking in the mailman FAQ and was
>wondering where I should concentrate my efforts to avoid the listserver
>saturating my line.  I'm thinking a local dns cache on the box would be
>good, but have seen anything that directly addresses how to "slow" the
>system down
> to avoid cramming the network.


See
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050321.html>
for a little info. There's essentially nothing you can do in Mailman
without hacking the code.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 03:00:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:00:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] all posted messages discarded by incomingrunner
In-Reply-To: <8DDD755A-EADC-4B66-8653-807613A81E66@seedboxconnect.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409180028022067bbef18@msapiro>

Jesse Sanford wrote:
>
>Since I can't teach everyone regular expressions,
>I figure I'll set header_filter_rules=\[SPAM\]
>myself and then block the display of that whole
>configuration option.  I know I've seen the instructions
>for that around here somewhere .....

You can easily block display of the whole Privacy options... section
from the admin interface, but that's probably not what you want.

In case I'm wrong, you can do that by finding the ADMIN_CATEGORIES
definition in Defaults.py and copying to mm_cfg.py and then deleting
"'privacy', " from the mm_cfg.py copy.

To just block the Spam filters subsection or header_filter_rules from
appearing, you have to modify the code in Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 03:05:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:05:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <013101c65b68$38a06540$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409180506068967bbf0d7@msapiro>

Ed wrote:
>
>Reason I KNOW is that I have asked exactly them same question to which Mark
>S. hinted would be in 2.1.8..


Did I? I hope not, because it won't be. Possibly 2.2, but no promises.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 03:40:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:40:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <44392E5E.3010305@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409184000075267bbf110@msapiro>

Fatcat wrote:
>
>I get the mail forward by mailman
>the mail body as follow
>
>test mail list
>_______________________________________________Test mailing
>listTest at invo.idv.twhttp
><mailto:listTest at invo.idv.twhttp>://invo.idv.tw/mailman/listinfo/test
>
>
>
>the maillist address and the url of mail list are together
>
>May I change the mail format ???

The template for the above footer is on the list admin Non-digest
options page and is called msg_footer. The default footer is four
lines as follows:

_______________________________________________
%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s


It looks like you are getting this information, but possibly your MUA
is running everything together and changing the list posting address
to a mailto: link.

What does the footer look like in messages you receive from this
(mailman-users) list? (It's not the default footer, but the first 4
lines are similar.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 03:53:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 18:53:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <44392E8B.5010305@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409185348075267bbf140@msapiro>

Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>
>the scripts didn't work - they always return empty lists... Maybe it's a
>problem with the python instalation iin my computer.


What version of Python do you have? Do the scripts issue any error?
Note that if you mistype either the list name or the list password,
you will get no output and no error message.

If your Python version is pre 2.4, you need to install ClientCookie as
mentioned in the 'help'.


>I will find the way to increase the chunks and do the parsing myself.


To increase the chunksize, you need to change the list's
admin_member_chunksize attribute, but since this isn't a web interface
setting, if you could do it (with withlist or config_list), you could
also run bin/list_members and you wouldn't have the need.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 04:21:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:21:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Other subscriptions" page is not
	showingsubscriptions for one particular list
In-Reply-To: <200604090215.32830.reinhold@kainhofer.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409192150084567bbf19f@msapiro>

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
>
>Any ideas what might be the problem?
>Are there any "hidden" settings (not available in the web UI), which causes 
>the lists to appear disconnected (although the name and email are identical)?

The 'hidden' setting is the list's web_page_url attribute. This is set
at list creation time by interpolating the create web domain into
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.

BUT, this setting is not what determines whether or not a list appears
in the user's "list my subscriptions" list. It is the list's visible
host_name attribute that determines this.

You say all the lists use exactly the same hostname. Do you mean the
host_name attribute on the General Options page? Your symptom would be
explained if the proscientia-<LOCATION> lists all have one host_name
and the proscientia list has another (perhaps differing only in case)
host_name.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Apr 10 04:26:54 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:26:54 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
References: <PC174020060409185348075267bbf140@msapiro>
Message-ID: <005d01c65c46$3c0ed930$6701a8c0@actualshop>

<<Did I? >>

Yep.  And actually said something like s/b easy.

<<I hope not, because it won't be. Possibly 2.2, but no promises.>>

Rats!!

Now I currently have seven Lists goings and it IS a REAL PITA to have to sift thru A the B then C then D, the.....etc.!!

I really can't understand why it would be so difficult to "offer" the "option" for Administrator "options" within the Web Interface.  'Course that would also be the reason I can't offer something -;) !!

And as of ONE minute ago I can actually offer a reason why a "scroll" page would be WAY handy for a Non-Shell "administrator" like me. 

A nitwit (aren't they all<G>) List member writes me direct and says "Please un-subscribe me......"!

In this gents case I KNOW of SIX, repeat SIX e-mails accounts he uses.  Do I know the very FIRST letter of the account he uses for his subscription??  No.  So I have to go thru entire ALPHABET  [page per letter at a time] to find it instead of just being able to scroll down a 60 member page.
 
Which would you rather do???

Don't bother to answer because of your WONDERFUL replies to this List, mine is NOT worthy!!!  Actually, serious, Mark.

Thanks for ALL your wonderful and difficult work!!!

Ed

From g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw  Mon Apr 10 04:54:40 2006
From: g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw (Fatcat)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:54:40 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060409184000075267bbf110@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060409184000075267bbf110@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4439C8F0.9040807@comm.ccu.edu.tw>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

> > Fatcat wrote:
> >   
> >
> > The template for the above footer is on the list admin Non-digest
> > options page and is called msg_footer. The default footer is four
> > lines as follows:
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > %(real_name)s mailing list
> > %(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
> > %(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
> >
> >
> > It looks like you are getting this information, but possibly your MUA
> > is running everything together and changing the list posting address
> > to a mailto: link.
> >
> > What does the footer look like in messages you receive from this
> > (mailman-users) list? (It's not the default footer, but the first 4
> > lines are similar.)
> >
> >   
>   
In the Non-digest options, the msg_footer

%(real_name)s mailing list
%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s

The output in the mail
It cannot change line by hit 'return'.
If I use return to separate the lines, the out still in one line

any command to do this ?

thanks






From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 04:58:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 19:58:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <005d01c65c46$3c0ed930$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604091958540283f32f6f71@msapiro>

Ed wrote:

><<Did I? >>
>
>Yep.  And actually said something like s/b easy.

Well, it is easy in principle, at least once it's decided what it
should look like, but i18n considerations make any new option more
difficult (for the translators). Anyway, it's not all that bleak
because 2.1.8rc1 is available now and the final is imminent, and after
that, we'll be concentrating on features for 2.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 05:08:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:08:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <4439C8F0.9040807@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604092008550377c3f523b0@msapiro>

Fatcat wrote:
>>   
>In the Non-digest options, the msg_footer
>
>%(real_name)s mailing list
>%(real_name)s@%(host_name)s
>%(web_page_url)slistinfo%(cgiext)s/%(_internal_name)s
>
>The output in the mail
>It cannot change line by hit 'return'.
>If I use return to separate the lines, the out still in one line
>
>any command to do this ?


I do not think Mailman is doing this (running the lines together). When
you receive a post from the mailman-users list, are the footer lines

>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

etc. run together when you view them? If so, it is your MUA (email
client) that is doing this. If not can you copy the raw message with
all headers from a test post to your list and post that to
mailman-users so we can see what it looks like?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw  Mon Apr 10 05:21:31 2006
From: g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw (Fatcat)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:21:31 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604092008550377c3f523b0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604092008550377c3f523b0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4439CF3B.7080507@comm.ccu.edu.tw>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> I do not think Mailman is doing this (running the lines together). When
> you receive a post from the mailman-users list, are the footer lines
>   
> etc. run together when you view them? If so, it is your MUA (email
> client) that is doing this. If not can you copy the raw message with
> all headers from a test post to your list and post that to
> mailman-users so we can see what it looks like?
My MUA is Thunderbird.
View the message body methid is original HTML

As the follows is copy from message source

In the last line mail address and url are all together

>From - Mon Apr 10 11:16:00 2006
X-Account-Key: account3
X-UIDL: U<h"!MKa"!+hQ!!a)8!!
X-Mozilla-Status: 0001
X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Return-Path: <test-bounces at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Received: from ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw (ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw [140.123.113.57])
	by comm.ccu.edu.tw (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3A3Fudu012108
	for <g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:15:56 +0800
Received: from ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw (localhost [127.0.0.1])
	by ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B94453D9A
	for <g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:16:10 +0800 (CST)
X-Original-To: test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
Delivered-To: test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
Received: from comm.ccu.edu.tw (comm.ccu.edu.tw [140.123.113.1])
	by ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9840853D9A
	for <test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:16:08 +0800 (CST)
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (INSA-67.comm.ccu.edu.tw [140.123.113.67])
	(authenticated bits=0)
	by comm.ccu.edu.tw (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k3A3Frdw012105
	for <test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw>; Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:15:54 +0800
Message-ID: <4439CDE9.8090607 at comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:15:53 +0800
From: Fatcat <g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw>
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5 (Windows/20051201)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
Subject: [Test] 324325423
X-BeenThere: test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.7
Precedence: list
Reply-To: test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
List-Id: <test.ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/listinfo/test>,
	<mailto:test-request at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/pipermail/test>
List-Post: <mailto:test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw>
List-Help: <mailto:test-request at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/listinfo/test>,
	<mailto:test-request at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Sender: test-bounces at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
Errors-To: test-bounces at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from base64 to 8bit by comm.ccu.edu.tw id k3A3Fudu012108
X-UIDL: U<h"!MKa"!+hQ!!a)8!!

5235235235
-----------------------------------------------------------------------Test mailing listTest at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.twhttp://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/listinfo/test








From g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw  Mon Apr 10 05:36:14 2006
From: g93430016 at comm.ccu.edu.tw (Fatcat)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:36:14 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <4439CF3B.7080507@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
References: <PC1740200604092008550377c3f523b0@msapiro>
	<4439CF3B.7080507@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <4439D2AE.6010102@comm.ccu.edu.tw>

Dear all

I think I get the solution.
I shout hit return 2 times.

The output in the mail will be what I want :-)

But there is a question, The bottom of the mailman-user mail list
There is auto embedded use's mail in the Unsubscribe
What is the variable in the [Non-digest options] ??

thanks

------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/xxx%40xxxxx.com




From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Apr 10 05:42:26 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:42:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
References: <PC1740200604092008550377c3f523b0@msapiro>
	<4439CF3B.7080507@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <00dd01c65c50$c90adff0$6701a8c0@actualshop>

I know this might be a reach Fatcat & Mark, but could the .......tw address have something to do with it???

Both of Fatcat's note today have asked me to accept an install of Chinese Traditional!!  Which is what makes me ask?!?!?

Ed

From justbrits at comcast.net  Mon Apr 10 05:49:26 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 22:49:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
References: <PC1740200604091958540283f32f6f71@msapiro>
Message-ID: <00f701c65c51$c3b08630$6701a8c0@actualshop>

Mark, being a FIRM beleiver in K.I.S.S.,

<<Well, it is easy in principle, at least once it's decided what it
should look like,>>

what would be wrong with just the same layouts and:

Option #1 = Continous List  (I think that it goes by alphabet???) = ONE page
Option #2 = Alphabitized List = how ever many "lettered" folk are members (A, D, M, W, Z = 5?)

??

I ADMIT not to knowing!!!  -:)

Ed


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 05:54:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:54:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] edit the mail body
In-Reply-To: <4439D2AE.6010102@comm.ccu.edu.tw>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604092054270423a1291e42@msapiro>

Fatcat wrote:
>
>I think I get the solution.
>I shout hit return 2 times.
>
>The output in the mail will be what I want :-)


This is a work around, but it shouldn't be necessary. I just subscribed
to your test list and I have received your last two test posts from
the list. I set my preferred language to english, and my footers are
not run together on one line, but they have some Taiwan characters

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Test mailing list
> Test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw
> ??http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/listinfo/test
> ??http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/options/Test

Above is single spaced from quote. below is double spaced

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Test mailing list

Test at ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw

??http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/listinfo/test

??http://ixp.comm.ccu.edu.tw/mailman/options/Test

Both of the above are from one test post. So is your subscriber
preferred language englist or taiwan? This may be part of the problem.


>But there is a question, The bottom of the mailman-user mail list
>There is auto embedded use's mail in the Unsubscribe
>What is the variable in the [Non-digest options] ??


You have to set

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then you will see the personalize option under Non-digest
options, and the 'details for personalize' link will explain the
additional 'personalized' substitutions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 06:16:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:16:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <00f701c65c51$c3b08630$6701a8c0@actualshop>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409211608078367bbf137@msapiro>

Ed wrote:
>
>what would be wrong with just the same layouts and:
>
>Option #1 = Continous List  (I think that it goes by alphabet???) = ONE page
>Option #2 = Alphabitized List = how ever many "lettered" folk are members (A, D, M, W, Z = 5?)

Nothing. That's one idea and a perfectly valid one, but also see for
example
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=782436&group_id=103&atid=350103>,
and
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1201160&group_id=103&atid=350103>
for other ideas.

Yet another possibility is to just allow setting admin_member_chunksize
via the web interface, maybe with a setting of '0' meaning all members
on one page.

See John's post in this thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050375.html>
for at some other ideas and some history.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 06:30:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 21:30:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing listserv members via the web
In-Reply-To: <002301c659f1$47a9ab50$6eb41198@milamj>
Message-ID: <PC174020060409213007081467bbf155@msapiro>

Jonathan Milam wrote:
>
>I wanted to know if it is possible to synchronize listserv members via the
>web, instead of using the list_members process?  If so, is there a FAQ that
>outlines this process?


I don't think there's documentation covering this per se. You would
have to do something like this.

To synchronize list-b with list-a - i.e., make the membership of list-b
equal to that of list-a, first obtain both membership lists via one of
the methods in FAQ 3.62
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>.
Then use diff or a similar tool to get lists of the adds and deletes
required and process those through list-b's mass subscription and mass
removal pages.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From termina at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 09:19:52 2006
From: termina at gmail.com (Will Twomey)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:19:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman isn't working: see /var/log/mailman/post
Message-ID: <9a6de10604100019o67d311c5k77ffd0654e5d5064@mail.gmail.com>

I don't see anything wrong coming up in /var/log/mail.log,
/var/log/mail.err nor /var/log/mailman/error

/var/log/mailman/post shows this, however.  Any ideas?

I'm using Debian stable, everything was working (havn't touched it).

Apr 10 02:15:23 2006 (21439) post to test from termina at gmail.com,
size=2093, message-id=<9a6de10604100000o7fbda77bvfca37c0eab5968b4 at mail.gmail.com>,
2 failures
Apr 10 02:15:23 2006 (21439) post to test from
test-bounces at uwptechforce.com, size=1010,
message-id=<mailman.0.1144652859.20243.test at uwptechforce.com>, 1
failures
Apr 10 02:15:23 2006 (21439) post to test from
test-owner at uwptechforce.com, size=2339,
message-id=<mailman.1.1144652859.20243.test at uwptechforce.com>, 1
failures
Apr 10 02:18:36 2006 (23519) post to test from
test-bounces at uwptechforce.com, size=1010,
message-id=<mailman.0.1144653515.23517.test at uwptechforce.com>, 1
failures
Apr 10 02:18:36 2006 (23519) post to test from
test-owner at uwptechforce.com, size=2339,
message-id=<mailman.1.1144653515.23517.test at uwptechforce.com>, 1
failures
Apr 10 02:19:55 2006 (23519) post to test from hobogod at gmail.com,
size=2164, message-id=<17b550590604100016v575976d3k8ff282f39a8ce736 at mail.gmail.com>,
2 failures


--
Will Twomey
http://UnhandledExceptions.com


From reinhold at kainhofer.com  Mon Apr 10 11:05:58 2006
From: reinhold at kainhofer.com (Reinhold Kainhofer)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:05:58 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Other subscriptions" page is not
	showingsubscriptions for one particular list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060409192150084567bbf19f@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060409192150084567bbf19f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200604101106.05478.reinhold@kainhofer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Am Montag, 10. April 2006 04:21 schrieben Sie:
> Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
> >Any ideas what might be the problem?
> >Are there any "hidden" settings (not available in the web UI), which
> > causes the lists to appear disconnected (although the name and email are
> > identical)?
>
> The 'hidden' setting is the list's web_page_url attribute. This is set
> at list creation time by interpolating the create web domain into
> DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN.

They were correctly set on the command line.

> BUT, this setting is not what determines whether or not a list appears
> in the user's "list my subscriptions" list. It is the list's visible
> host_name attribute that determines this.
>
> You say all the lists use exactly the same hostname. Do you mean the
> host_name attribute on the General Options page? Your symptom would be
> explained if the proscientia-<LOCATION> lists all have one host_name
> and the proscientia list has another (perhaps differing only in case)
> host_name.

Ah, thanks a lot. Indeed, this one list had a trailing space in the host_name 
setting. Removing it fixed the problem.

However, can't mailman remove spaces (which are not allowed in hostnames 
anyway according to the RFC) itself? Or simply ignore them when comparing 
host names. Similarly, case shouldn't matter in hostnames, 
as "proscientia.tuwien.ac.at" and "ProScientia.TUWien.Ac.At" are the same by 
definition. So all hostname checks should be made case-insensitive.
Or would this be too hard to be implemented in mailman?

Cheers,
Reinhold

- -- 
- ------------------------------------------------------------------
Reinhold Kainhofer, Vienna University of Technology, Austria
email: reinhold at kainhofer.com, http://reinhold.kainhofer.com/
 * Financial and Actuarial Mathematics, TU Wien, http://www.fam.tuwien.ac.at/
 * K Desktop Environment, http://www.kde.org, KOrganizer maintainer
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From pmb1 at york.ac.uk  Mon Apr 10 12:40:02 2006
From: pmb1 at york.ac.uk (Mike Brudenell)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:40:02 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Description text not appearing in "To:" header?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060409171737093767bbf1ee@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060409171737093767bbf1ee@msapiro>
Message-ID: <5DBABB7989894009FA3C610C@pippin.york.ac.uk>

Greetings -

--On 9 April 2006 17:17:37 -0700 Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Mike Brudenell wrote:
>>
>> Things have been going very well, except I've just noticed that messages
>> I'm sending out to my test list are coming through with the header:
>>
>>  To: testlist at lists.york.ac.uk
>
> Because that's how you addressed the message you sent.

Hmmm, I think my mental model of Mailman's operation needs tweaking 
slightly...


>> However given I had set the list's 'Description' setting to "A test
>> list" I  was instead expecting it to be:
>>
>>    To: A test list <testlist at lists.york.ac.uk>
>
> If the list is anonymous, that's what the From: header will look like,
> but Mailman doesn't change the To: header unless the list is fully
> personalized in which case, the To: becomes the message recipient, not
> the list.

We're currently using (a rather old version of) Lyris ListManager at 
present.  As standard this deliberately rewrites the "To:" header of 
messages it distributes out to members of lists so that:

    a)  Whatever was in the "To:" header is removed, then
    b)  It is replaced with the list's short description followed by
        the list's address

To be honest this is one of the things I hate about Lyris ListManager, as 
it makes it difficult when someone cross-posts their message to a number of 
lists: as standard a recipient only sees their copy as going "To:" the only 
list they're on, so any reply they make goes only to that one list, rather 
than all the lists the original was posted to.

(Yes, it is possible to alter this, but the standard is this action.)

I had, incorrectly by the sound of it, assumed Mailman worked the same way 
because:

    1)  Mailman's built-in help text for the 'description' setting says:

            description (general): A terse phrase identifying this list.
            This description is used when the mailing list is listed with
            other mailing lists, or in headers, and so forth. It should be
                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            as succinct as you can get it, while still identifying what the
            list is.

OK, so the above might refer to the 'header' you can get Mailman to include 
within the message body up at the top, or it could mean the true headers of 
messages (ie, the To:/From:/Subject:/Received:/etc header lines).

By itself it's a bit ambiguous, but then we also have:

    2)  Section 2.1.1 of the Mailman Admin help pages at GNU's site
        <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node10.html>
        says this:

            description
            In the general list overview page, which shows you every
            available mailing list, each list is displayed with a short
            description. The contents of this variable is that description.
            Note that in emails from the mailing list, this description is
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            also used in the comment section of the To: address. This text
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
            should be relatively short and no longer than one line.

This seems pretty clear, and I also found the same information on other 
sites' help pages using Google (sadly I didn't note down the URLs for any 
of these).

If Mailman doesn't rewrite the "To:" header as standard perhaps the 
information in (2) above relates to an earlier version?  I did manage to 
find a thread suggesting a change in this area had been experimented with 
but then backed out, albeit back in 2002:

    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2002-August/021701.html>

I'll just assume that Mailman (now) doesn't/shouldn't rewrite the "To:" 
header as standard and the Mailman Administration help page is out of date.

Thanks for the help,
Mike B-)

-- 
The Computing Service, University of York, Heslington, York Yo10 5DD, UK
Tel:+44-1904-433811  FAX:+44-1904-433740

* Unsolicited commercial e-mail is NOT welcome at this e-mail address. *


From spamuser2 at chemtool.com  Mon Apr 10 14:51:27 2006
From: spamuser2 at chemtool.com (spamuser2 at chemtool.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:51:27 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <56175.209.172.184.218.1144673487.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>

Hi all,

  I'm running postfix with virtual host and mysql.
I mainly followed the following guide:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/virt-mail-howto.xml


I was wondering if there was any mailman documentation that is more
detailed.  I ran through the setup instructions and as far as I can tell.
it's just not doing anything... added the aliases etc.  The owner is not
getting notified.. nor can I send/receive emails sent to that account.

Any ideas suggestion would be appreciated.

Joe



From jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu  Mon Apr 10 16:30:34 2006
From: jewel.brueggeman-makda at washburn.edu (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:30:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a jump to various topics - possible?
Message-ID: <443A6C0A.6050203@washburn.edu>

A subscriber emailed me asking if the information in a listserv can be 
organized to be able to jump to the various topics so one doesn't have 
to scroll down.    I personally can't think of how this could be done 
but wanted to run it by the experts.  Also, is there a setting in 
Mailman which will eliminate the redundant messages each time someone 
responds?

Thanks,

-- 
Jewel 



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 17:07:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:07:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman isn't working: see /var/log/mailman/post
In-Reply-To: <9a6de10604100019o67d311c5k77ffd0654e5d5064@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604100807440859dfa7e367@msapiro>

Will Twomey wrote:

>I don't see anything wrong coming up in /var/log/mail.log,
>/var/log/mail.err nor /var/log/mailman/error
>
>/var/log/mailman/post shows this, however.  Any ideas?
>
>I'm using Debian stable, everything was working (havn't touched it).
>
>Apr 10 02:15:23 2006 (21439) post to test from termina at gmail.com,
>size=2093, message-id=<9a6de10604100000o7fbda77bvfca37c0eab5968b4 at mail.gmail.com>,
>2 failures
>Apr 10 02:15:23 2006 (21439) post to test from
>test-bounces at uwptechforce.com, size=1010,
>message-id=<mailman.0.1144652859.20243.test at uwptechforce.com>, 1
>failures
<snip>

Both the /var/log/mailman/smtp and /var/log/mailman/smtp-failure logs
will have info about these. These are just bounces occurring at the
SMTP level between Mailman and the outgoing MTA.
/var/log/mailman/smtp-failure has the detailed error info.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 17:23:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:23:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "Other subscriptions" page is not
	showingsubscriptions for one particular list
In-Reply-To: <200604101106.05478.reinhold@kainhofer.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604100823160140dfa7e07c@msapiro>

Reinhold Kainhofer wrote:
>
>However, can't mailman remove spaces (which are not allowed in hostnames 
>anyway according to the RFC) itself? Or simply ignore them when comparing 
>host names.


Yes. Apparently, up to now, no one thought of this problem. I think at
least leading and trailing spaces should be removed. Actually, I think
only a trailing space would be a problem. A leading or imbedded space
would result in invalid email addresses and would probably not go
unnoticed.


>Similarly, case shouldn't matter in hostnames, 
>as "proscientia.tuwien.ac.at" and "ProScientia.TUWien.Ac.At" are the same by 
>definition. So all hostname checks should be made case-insensitive.
>Or would this be too hard to be implemented in mailman?


No. It's not too hard :-) Since people often prefer one spelling over
the other, I would not want to convert saved host domain names to
lower case, but we could certainly do a case insensitive compare.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 17:47:00 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:47:00 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Description text not appearing in "To:" header?
In-Reply-To: <5DBABB7989894009FA3C610C@pippin.york.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604100847000359ed2169a7@msapiro>

Mike Brudenell wrote:
>
>I had, incorrectly by the sound of it, assumed Mailman worked the same way 
>because:
>
>    1)  Mailman's built-in help text for the 'description' setting says:
>
>            description (general): A terse phrase identifying this list.
>            This description is used when the mailing list is listed with
>            other mailing lists, or in headers, and so forth. It should be
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>            as succinct as you can get it, while still identifying what the
>            list is.
>
>OK, so the above might refer to the 'header' you can get Mailman to include 
>within the message body up at the top, or it could mean the true headers of 
>messages (ie, the To:/From:/Subject:/Received:/etc header lines).


As I said in my original reply, when the list is anonymous, the
'description' is included in the From: header, so the above, while
misleading in your case, is correct in that the description is used in
some cases in an actual message header.


>By itself it's a bit ambiguous, but then we also have:
>
>    2)  Section 2.1.1 of the Mailman Admin help pages at GNU's site
>        <http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-admin/node10.html>
>        says this:
>
>            description
>            In the general list overview page, which shows you every
>            available mailing list, each list is displayed with a short
>            description. The contents of this variable is that description.
>            Note that in emails from the mailing list, this description is
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>            also used in the comment section of the To: address. This text
>            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>            should be relatively short and no longer than one line.
>
>This seems pretty clear, and I also found the same information on other 
>sites' help pages using Google (sadly I didn't note down the URLs for any 
>of these).


Yes, it is clear, but unfortunately, it's wrong.


>I'll just assume that Mailman (now) doesn't/shouldn't rewrite the "To:" 
>header as standard and the Mailman Administration help page is out of date.


And we'll get the manual corrected.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Mon Apr 10 17:57:18 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:57:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
Message-ID: <p06230908c06030c216bb@[10.0.1.4]>

>In this gents case I KNOW of SIX, repeat SIX e-mails accounts he uses.  Do I know the very FIRST letter of the account he uses for his subscription??  No.  So I have to go thru entire ALPHABET  [page per letter at a time] to find it instead of just being able to scroll down a 60 member page.


Instead of looking up subscribers by address, use their names. And instead of using
the Mailman interface, use your mail client (I use Eudora, which has a VERY fast and
flexible search engine):

All subscriptions to my lists (40 of them) go through a very simple web interface
that requires a name and an address. (My moderators have access to this page, so that
they can moderate and subscribe/unsubscribe without being admins - I hesitate giving
anyone admin access, but they do need the subscribe/unsubscribe/list_members 
functionality).

Mailman then sends emails to me with the subscription list, name and address.
Eudora (my mail client) filters those into a separate folder. I can now search for
a person's name in the Eudora mail box and see all his/her subscriptions over time.

Mailman also sends unsubscriptions to me, filtered into a separate mailbox. These
messages have only the subscriber address, which is fine by me.

Finally, every month, a cron job sends the contents of all the lists to me. These
contain the person's name and address both and get filtered by Eudora into yet another
mailbox (containing 'current' subscriptions) (Whenever I get a batch of these, I purge
last month's batch). 

This setup lets me quickly see what current subscriptions anyone has
without going anywhere near the server's web interface and without knowing the
person's multiple addresses. I just search for the name. 

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Apr 10 18:08:30 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:08:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <p06230908c06030c216bb@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <p06230908c06030c216bb@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p0620072bc06032fedf30@[192.168.1.65]>

At 8:57 AM -0700 2006-04-10, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  Instead of looking up subscribers by address, use their names.

	You can also use the Mailman search function, which will work 
with partial names and e-mail addresses, either by user part or 
domain part.  If the comment field in their subscription is filled 
in, that should be searchable too.

	If I were subscribed to your lists, you could search for me by my 
first name (or part thereof), my last name (or part thereof), or any 
part of the domain name of the dozen or more different domains that I 
might use in subscribing to your lists.


	In other words, all the necessary features are already there in 
the search box.  You just have to use them.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 18:25:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:25:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] creating a jump to various topics - possible?
In-Reply-To: <443A6C0A.6050203@washburn.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041009253609373ec3f90d@msapiro>

Jewel wrote:

>A subscriber emailed me asking if the information in a listserv can be 
>organized to be able to jump to the various topics so one doesn't have 
>to scroll down.


I assume you are talking about reading a digest. Depending on your
user's MUA, the user may be able to get close to the desired result by
setting her/his "Get MIME or Plain Text Digests?" option to MIME.


>Also, is there a setting in 
>Mailman which will eliminate the redundant messages each time someone 
>responds?


It's called 'moderation' :-)

No. there's no automated way to strip unnecessary quoting from list
posts. You have to train your users.

You can post pleas to the list and publicly chastize people who don't
comply until they get the point (or go away), or you can moderate
offenders and send their posts back to them for editing until they get
it right (or go away), or you can moderate the offenders and fix their
posts for them (way too much work), or you can just post an occasional
reminder (which does little good) and ignore the problem.

One thing I've thought of but never tried is to make the list 'digest
only' for a period of time. This would probably be a disaster however.
You'd just get a digest full of posts with subject "Re: xxx digest,
Vol nn, Issue, nn", most of which quoted the entire digest to which
they were replying.

Anybody out there have another suggestion?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 10 18:30:53 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:30:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <56175.209.172.184.218.1144673487.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>
References: <56175.209.172.184.218.1144673487.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604100930s3d9494e6sce3ff8aa3f0d4b6f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/10/06, spamuser2 at chemtool.com <spamuser2 at chemtool.com> wrote:
> I was wondering if there was any mailman documentation that is more
> detailed.  I ran through the setup instructions and as far as I can tell.
> it's just not doing anything... added the aliases etc.  The owner is not
> getting notified.. nor can I send/receive emails sent to that account.
Is your aliases file getting properly used by Postfix? (I don't know
how to do or check this, since I don't use postfix.)

Are your qrunners running? (ps uax | grep qrunner) If not, :
$bin/mailmanctl start

If your qrunners are running, and you're sure your aliases are getting
used properly, check the mailman logs; *some* sort of events should be
generated when you attempt to post.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 19:04:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:04:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman isn't working: see /var/log/mailman/post
In-Reply-To: <9a6de10604100955p33a83c27md758249eb592b1ad@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604101004400609514a8c29@msapiro>

Will Twomey wrote:

>This is what I see in smtp-failure
>
>Apr 10 02:41:41 2006 (23791) delivery to JRR006 at gmail.com failed with
>code -1: (-2, 'Name or service not known')
<snip>

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Mon Apr 10 20:44:10 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:44:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
Message-ID: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>

At 11:08 -0500 4/10/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
>At 8:57 AM -0700 2006-04-10, Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>>  Instead of looking up subscribers by address, use their names.
>
>	You can also use the Mailman search function, which will work 
>with partial names and e-mail addresses, either by user part or 
>domain part.  If the comment field in their subscription is filled 
>in, that should be searchable too.
>
>	If I were subscribed to your lists, you could search for me by my 
>first name (or part thereof), my last name (or part thereof), or any 
>part of the domain name of the dozen or more different domains that I 
>might use in subscribing to your lists.
>
>
>	In other words, all the necessary features are already there in 
>the search box.  You just have to use them.

Yes, of course, as I am interacting with Mailman after all, but
my setup has one BIG advantage: speed. Using my setup I can search
through all the lists in 1 second (the same subscriber may be on multiple
lists and want to get off them all). Using the Mailman pages I first
have to wait, then enter the list name, then wait, then enter my
password, then wait, then enter the search, then wait, etc. Just to
look at 1 of my 40+ lists. Then repeat all that 40 times...

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Apr 10 21:40:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:40:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
In-Reply-To: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>

At 11:44 AM -0700 2006-04-10, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  Yes, of course, as I am interacting with Mailman after all, but
>  my setup has one BIG advantage: speed. Using my setup I can search
>  through all the lists in 1 second (the same subscriber may be on multiple
>  lists and want to get off them all).

	There's plenty of speed in the Mailmain command-line tools, too.

>                                        Using the Mailman pages I first
>  have to wait, then enter the list name, then wait, then enter my
>  password, then wait, then enter the search, then wait, etc. Just to
>  look at 1 of my 40+ lists. Then repeat all that 40 times...

	How big are your lists?  How big is your archive?  I have over 
ten gigabytes of e-mail archives that go back many years, and it 
takes Eudora quite some time to search through all of them.  Even if 
I limit myself to just the Mailman-related lists for which I've only 
been a subscriber for a couple of years, it takes a while.  On the 
other hand, bin/find_member can search through all the lists hosted 
on python.org pretty quickly.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Apr 10 21:53:35 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:53:35 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
In-Reply-To: <p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <p0620072fc06067c13cf0@[192.168.1.65]>

At 2:40 PM -0500 2006-04-10, Brad Knowles wrote:

>                                                              On the
>  other hand, bin/find_member can search through all the lists hosted
>  on python.org pretty quickly.

	There's another factor here -- we have plenty of subscribers who 
never have never posted to the list, and therefore would never show 
up in my Eudora archive, even if I had a complete list of every 
message ever sent to the lists.  In that case, using the server-based 
tools are the only viable option.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 23:20:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:20:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060409185348075267bbf140@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041014201202968698e8d4@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>>
>>the scripts didn't work - they always return empty lists... Maybe it's a
>>problem with the python instalation iin my computer.
>
>
>What version of Python do you have? Do the scripts issue any error?
>Note that if you mistype either the list name or the list password,
>you will get no output and no error message.


I have updated the scripts at
<http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py> and
<http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py>. They now issue
meaningful errors for invalid hostname, listname or password (in most
cases - during testing, I intentionally garbled a domain name and got
the "non-existent list" message instead of the "error accessing URL"
message. Turns out that the garbled domain was a valid domain that has
a Mailman installation.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Mon Apr 10 23:20:57 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:20:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
In-Reply-To: <p06230918c060789aa65c@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p0620072fc06067c13cf0@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230918c060789aa65c@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06200731c0607abdb022@[192.168.1.65]>

At 2:04 PM -0700 2006-04-10, Allan Hansen wrote:
>>>                                                               On the
>>>   other hand, bin/find_member can search through all the lists hosted
>>>   on python.org pretty quickly.
>>
>>	There's another factor here -- we have plenty of subscribers who
>>  never have never posted to the list, and therefore would never show
>>  up in my Eudora archive, even if I had a complete list of every
>>  message ever sent to the lists.  In that case, using the server-based
>>  tools are the only viable option.
>
>  Please read my message again, Brad. I'm not looking at posts, but
>  subscribe and unsubscribe messages.

	I know exactly what you're looking at, and that only works for 
people who have to approve every subscription or who get a notice of 
every unsubscription.  That also assumes that you haven't lost any 
mail along the way, etc....

	Not all lists are run this way, in fact I would submit that most 
lists probably are not run this way.  And regardless of how large or 
small your e-mail archive is, I doubt that most people have a 100% 
perfect archive of every message that they've ever received over a 
reasonable given period of time.


	Speaking only for myself, I know that none of the Mailman-related 
mailing lists hosted on python.org are run this way, and I also know 
that I don't have a perfect e-mail archive.

	I've recently moved from Belgium back to the US, and during the 
transition I know that at least a few messages were lost.  I also 
know that e-mail systems are not perfect, and there have probably 
been a few other messages that have been lost along the way that I am 
not aware of.


	Even for people who do have a reasonably good e-mail archive, and 
who have their lists configured to send them subscription and 
unsubscription notices, I would challenge you to see how fast Eudora 
(or any other MUA) can search your archives of those messages across 
all your lists, to pull up a given recipient and then compare that to 
the command-line tools such as bin/find_member.


	The web interface may not be the greatest and fastest thing 
around, but that's because not everyone has the same moderator (or 
set of moderators) for all their lists, so each moderator is only 
going to be able to see (and search) the list of subscribers for the 
one list they are currently looking at.

	But the command-line interface (for the site admin) is something 
altogether different.  As you run larger and larger lists, you become 
more and more dependant on the command-line tools, because they scale 
better than the web tools.  We're working on beefing up the web tools 
to try to address some of these issues, but in the meanwhile there 
are at least some other options that can be used.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From matt at mail.netera.ca  Sat Apr 15 23:34:10 2006
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 15:34:10 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] capitals in list address'
Message-ID: <444166D2.40703@mail.netera.ca>

I know that having capitals in a email address is not standard, and it 
seems as though mailman will not allow it; Although, what I need is a 
set of lists with the roman numerals 2 (II) in them, without the address 
showing up with ii's.  Is there any way to do this?

Thanks in advance.

--
Matthew Clarkson


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 10 23:57:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:57:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] capitals in list address'
In-Reply-To: <444166D2.40703@mail.netera.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604101457060890c23a8a80@msapiro>

Matthew Clarkson wrote:

>I know that having capitals in a email address is not standard, and it 
>seems as though mailman will not allow it; Although, what I need is a 
>set of lists with the roman numerals 2 (II) in them, without the address 
>showing up with ii's.  Is there any way to do this?

You can capitalize whatever you like in real_name (The public name of
this list) on the General Options page, and the list will appear that
way on the admin and listinfo overviews and in text on other web
pages, but the list name in URLs and email addresses will still be all
lower case. I think that's the best you can do without significant
code changes.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Mon Apr 10 23:58:17 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:58:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
Message-ID: <p06230919c060855da430@[10.0.1.4]>

At 14:53 -0500 4/10/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
>At 2:40 PM -0500 2006-04-10, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
>>                                                              On the
>>  other hand, bin/find_member can search through all the lists hosted
>>  on python.org pretty quickly.
>
>	There's another factor here -- we have plenty of subscribers who 
>never have never posted to the list, and therefore would never show 
>up in my Eudora archive, even if I had a complete list of every 
>message ever sent to the lists.  In that case, using the server-based 
>tools are the only viable option.

Please read my message again, Brad. I'm not looking at posts, but
subscribe and unsubscribe messages.

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From hansen at rc.org  Tue Apr 11 00:06:06 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:06:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
In-Reply-To: <p06200731c0607abdb022@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p0620072fc06067c13cf0@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230918c060789aa65c@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200731c0607abdb022@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <p0623091dc06086acf2cc@[10.0.1.4]>

Well, I was just trying to help the poor soul who was struggling with the 
web interface, assuming that he could not get to the command-line tools.

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From spamuser2 at chemtool.com  Tue Apr 11 01:23:20 2006
From: spamuser2 at chemtool.com (spamuser2 at chemtool.com)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:23:20 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] followup
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604100930s3d9494e6sce3ff8aa3f0d4b6f@mail.gmail.com>
References: <56175.209.172.184.218.1144673487.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>
	<6fbe3da00604100930s3d9494e6sce3ff8aa3f0d4b6f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1131.69.214.214.123.1144711400.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>

Thanks, I got it working.  I just had to create the file manually and
change the permissions but it seems to be running, I have few lists up and
running, archived etc.

One more question:

    Does anyone know how I can setup permission as far as who can post? 
ie. I don't want anyone who isn't subscribed to be able to post to the
list, or is that just a default setting?



> On 4/10/06, spamuser2 at chemtool.com <spamuser2 at chemtool.com> wrote:
>> I was wondering if there was any mailman documentation that is more
>> detailed.  I ran through the setup instructions and as far as I can
>> tell.
>> it's just not doing anything... added the aliases etc.  The owner is not
>> getting notified.. nor can I send/receive emails sent to that account.
> Is your aliases file getting properly used by Postfix? (I don't know
> how to do or check this, since I don't use postfix.)
>
> Are your qrunners running? (ps uax | grep qrunner) If not, :
> $bin/mailmanctl start
>
> If your qrunners are running, and you're sure your aliases are getting
> used properly, check the mailman logs; *some* sort of events should be
> generated when you attempt to post.
>
> --
> - Patrick Bogen
>
>




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 02:06:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:06:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] followup
In-Reply-To: <1131.69.214.214.123.1144711400.squirrel@sales.chemtool.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041017061500931b018b4c@msapiro>

spamuser2 at chemtool.com wrote:
>
>    Does anyone know how I can setup permission as far as who can post? 
>ie. I don't want anyone who isn't subscribed to be able to post to the
>list, or is that just a default setting?


Look at Privacy options...->Sender filters

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From justbrits at comcast.net  Tue Apr 11 02:13:19 2006
From: justbrits at comcast.net (Ed)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:13:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]><p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]><p0620072fc06067c13cf0@[192.168.1.65]><p06230918c060789aa65c@[10.0.1.4]><p06200731c0607abdb022@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p0623091dc06086acf2cc@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <024301c65cfc$c16a4900$6701a8c0@actualshop>

THANK you, Allen!!

<<Well, I was just trying to help the poor soul who was struggling with the 
web interface, assuming that he could not get to the command-line tools.>>

Which IS what I said!!!

My ONLY "mailman access" is the web interface, which IMVHO is "lacking" BUT I am biased<G><G>!!

Ed

From milamj at wfu.edu  Tue Apr 11 02:15:46 2006
From: milamj at wfu.edu (Jonathan Milam)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:15:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing listserv members via the web
Message-ID: <000b01c65cfd$15a27f10$9fb41198@milamj>

Hello!

I wanted to know if it is possible to synchronize listserv members via the
web, instead of using the list_members process?  If so, is there a FAQ that
outlines this process?

Thanks,

Jonathan Milam
Computer Consultant
Wake Forest University




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 02:24:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:24:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Synchronizing listserv members via the web
In-Reply-To: <000b01c65cfd$15a27f10$9fb41198@milamj>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041017241004214b84c6ef@msapiro>

Jonathan Milam wrote:
>
>I wanted to know if it is possible to synchronize listserv members via the
>web, instead of using the list_members process?  If so, is there a FAQ that
>outlines this process?


And did you see the reply at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050404.html>.
If so, specifically what do you want to know that isn't covered in
that reply.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hal at sofdev.sri.com  Tue Apr 11 03:07:03 2006
From: hal at sofdev.sri.com (Hal Huntley)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:07:03 PDT
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery problems and digests?
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.1144717623.hal@sofdev>

One mailman instance that I work with is running 2.1.2 on a linux
2.4.20-20.9 kernel.

Mail to a specific list is not getting delivered, but other lists on the
same instance are being delivered fine.  The error message one person got
back when they tried to send a message to the list was:

==== start error message ===
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 94, in ?
    main()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/cron/senddigests", line 86, in main
    mlist.send_digest_now()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Digester.py", line 60, in send_digest_now
    ToDigest.send_digests(self, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 130, in send_digests
    send_i18n_digests(mlist, mboxfp)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 303, in send_i18n_digests
    msg = scrubber(mlist, msg)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 232, in process
    url = save_attachment(mlist, part, dir)
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/Scrubber.py", line 348, in save_attachment
    fnext = os.path.splitext(msg.get_filename(''))[1]
  File "/usr/local/mailman/pythonlib/email/Message.py", line 707, in get_filename
    return unicode(newvalue[2], newvalue[0])
TypeError: unicode() argument 2 must be string, not None
==== end error message ===


I read this message to the list that is dated January 2006:
==
Mailman sends messages in both regular and digest delivery.  The digest
processing is inserted in the middle of regular delivery if the messages
accumulated to a preset amount.  If there is a serious error in the
digest processing, the regular delivery fails.  Since the messages are
accumulated already, arrival of following message triggers the digest
processing again and also fail in the subsequent regular delivery.
==

It went on to say:
==
Therefore, the site administrator should check the qfiles/shunt
directory and the logs/error file periodically.
==

The recommendation was to go to 2.1.7 of mailman.  Well, I'd rather not do
that with all the lists going right now.  I'll need to do that later.

I guess something bombed with the digestifying.  We don't digest the
 specific list, so I tried turning that off on the list, but that didn't
 help any.  I saw in the FAQ to try "unshunt", but that doesn't seemed to
 have unstick the log jam.  There are quite a few files in the qfiles/shunt
 directory.

Is there a command or a set of procedures that I can run to make the list
start delivering mail again normally?

Hal Huntley
SRI International






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 03:45:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery problems and digests?
In-Reply-To: <CMM.0.90.4.1144717623.hal@sofdev>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041018454504063ec3f703@msapiro>

Hal Huntley wrote:

>One mailman instance that I work with is running 2.1.2 on a linux
>2.4.20-20.9 kernel.
>
>Mail to a specific list is not getting delivered, but other lists on the
>same instance are being delivered fine.


<snip>
>
>Is there a command or a set of procedures that I can run to make the list
>start delivering mail again normally?

It definitely appears to be a digesting issue.

Rename or move aside the file lists/<listname>/digest.mbox. That should
get the list going again.

It looks like there may be a message there with an attachment with a
null filename.

I think all the known problems of this type with scrubber are fixed in
2.1.8.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Tue Apr 11 03:59:14 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 20:59:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Accessing lists
In-Reply-To: <p0623091dc06086acf2cc@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <p06230911c06057cbf5df@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p0620072dc06064ae849e@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p0620072fc06067c13cf0@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230918c060789aa65c@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200731c0607abdb022@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p0623091dc06086acf2cc@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06200733c060bdc2656c@[192.168.1.65]>

At 3:06 PM -0700 2006-04-10, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  Well, I was just trying to help the poor soul who was struggling with the
>  web interface, assuming that he could not get to the command-line tools.

	As I said, for some people what you've suggested is a perfectly 
valid option.  If that works for the OP, that's great.  If not, then 
he might need to try the command-line tools.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From louis at artjamming.com  Tue Apr 11 05:04:21 2006
From: louis at artjamming.com (Louis Headley)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:04:21 +0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
Message-ID: <004e01c65d14$a1caf640$3601a8c0@Louis>

I have started to receive spam to my list. While my members are not recieving them (all posts must be approved), is there a way to discard all requests at once? At the moment, I must go thru the list one by one. THere as many as 40 per week. How can i stop people from spam my list?
Help?


From edwardam at interlix.com  Tue Apr 11 05:47:18 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:47:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a no-password no-corfirmation unsubscribe
	option anywhere?
Message-ID: <200604102247.18771.edwardam@interlix.com>

Is there a no-password, no confirmation unsubscribe option anywhere in 
Mailman? I have a client that wants this despite my protests. Apparently 
since we put Mailman in place he is getting a lot of complaints (and rude 
comments) about their unsubscription process.

-- 
Edward Muller - Interlix
edwardam at interlix.com
417-862-0573
PGP Key: http://interlix.com/Members/edwardam/pgpkeys


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 07:27:07 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:27:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spamming of my list
In-Reply-To: <004e01c65d14$a1caf640$3601a8c0@Louis>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604102227070265fc182d50@msapiro>

Louis Headley wrote:

>I have started to receive spam to my list. While my members are not recieving them (all posts must be approved), is there a way to discard all requests at once?


Mailman 2.1.5 and up have a "Discard all messages marked defer"
checkbox on the admindb page.

There is a bin/discard command line script that allows something like

bin/discard data/heldmsg-list-*


>At the moment, I must go thru the list one by one. THere as many as 40 per week. How can i stop people from spam my list?

When you figure that out, you can sell it and make a fortune :-)

What you can do is integrate spam filtering in your incoming mail
process and filter it out before it gets to Mailman.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 07:48:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:48:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Is there a no-password no-corfirmation
	unsubscribeoption anywhere?
In-Reply-To: <200604102247.18771.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604102248470921b20a43a8@msapiro>

Edward Muller wrote:

>Is there a no-password, no confirmation unsubscribe option anywhere in 
>Mailman? I have a client that wants this despite my protests. Apparently 
>since we put Mailman in place he is getting a lot of complaints (and rude 
>comments) about their unsubscription process.


He can always set Privacy options...->Subscription
rules->unsubscribe_policy to Yes. Then he'll have to do the
confirmation instead of the user.

Otherwise, you either have to hack the Mailman code or build a separate
web or email unsubscribe that gets Mailman to do the unsubscribe
without confirmations in the same way that admin Mass removal or
bin/remove_members does.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From linux at physics.sun.ac.za  Tue Apr 11 09:37:36 2006
From: linux at physics.sun.ac.za (Nolan Rumble)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:37:36 +0200 (SAST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding members to multiple lists
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0604110920400.28563@mail.ph.sun.ac.za>

Hi,

We use mailman for departmental use when sending emails to various groups 
around the department.  One thing which I've noticed is that some email 
addresses are members of more than one list.

Is it possible to have a "global list" of emails whereby you select which 
email address you want to attach to a list and when you delete an email 
address (because the student leaves the department) it deletes it out of all the 
lists where he/she is associated?

Thanks
Nolan


From bermudez at mbari.org  Tue Apr 11 17:44:21 2006
From: bermudez at mbari.org (Luis Bermudez)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 08:44:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
Message-ID: <D495D681-BFF5-49A3-93F7-6870CA58024D@mbari.org>

Dear all,

I have mailman 2.1.4 installed in a MAC OS X server 10.3.9.

I have about 10 lists and were working fine, but couple months ago  
mailman just stopped sending emails. It holded all the messages in  
the queue. So I had to start the qrunner manually or stop and start  
the mail service with the Server Admin program and it did the trick.  
Few days ago, even doing the previous actions is not helping me.

- the server is sending emails that are not mailman related port 25  
is working fine
- I see that qrunner is running: (ps -aux | grep .*qrunner.*)

mailman  12288   0.0  0.4    31416   4388  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:01.92 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunn
mailman  12289   0.0  0.4    31416   4396  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:02.71 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRu
mailman  12290   0.0  0.4    31416   4384  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:01.78 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandR
mailman  12292   0.0  0.4    31416   4432  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:01.95 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunn
mailman  12293   0.0  0.4    31416   4444  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:02.73 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=Outgoing
mailman  12294   0.0  0.4    31416   4392  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:01.82 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRu
mailman  12295   0.0  0.4    31416   4392  ??  S     6:35AM    
0:00.32 /usr/bin/python /usr/share/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRun


I am enclosing the qrunner log, the error log.


qrunner.log

Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5260) ArchRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5261) BounceRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5265) OutgoingRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5266) VirginRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5262) CommandRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5264) NewsRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5267) RetryRunner qrunner caught SIGTERM.   
Stopping.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5267) RetryRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5261) BounceRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5260) ArchRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5266) VirginRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5265) OutgoingRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5262) CommandRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5264) NewsRunner qrunner exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master watcher caught SIGTERM.  Exiting.
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5266, sig: None, sts: 15, class: VirginRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5265, sig: None, sts: 15, class: OutgoingRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5262, sig: None, sts: 15, class: CommandRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5261, sig: None, sts: 15, class: BounceRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5260, sig: None, sts: 15, class: ArchRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5267, sig: None, sts: 15, class: RetryRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:33:46 2006 (5259) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 5264, sig: None, sts: 15, class: NewsRunner, slice: 1/1)
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12288) ArchRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12291) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12293) OutgoingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12292) NewsRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12291, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12295) RetryRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12294) VirginRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12289) BounceRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:36 2006 (12290) CommandRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12296) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12296, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12297) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12297, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12298) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12298, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12299) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:37 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12299, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12300) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12300, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12301) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12301, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12302) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12302, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 (12303) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12303, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12304) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12304, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12305) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
(pid: 12305, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
[restarting]
Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum  
restart limit of 10, not restarting.



error.log

Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300):      if dict.get('version', 0)  
== 2:
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300): AttributeError :  'complex'  
object has no attribute 'get'
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301): Traceback (most recent call last):
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
qrunner", line 270, in ?
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      main()
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
qrunner", line 230, in main
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      qrunner.run()
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      msg, msgdata =  
self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in dequeue
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264, in _ext_read


Any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks,

Luis Bermudez




From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 18:35:44 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:35:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Adding members to multiple lists
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0604110920400.28563@mail.ph.sun.ac.za>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604110935440171ebec6ef7@msapiro>

Nolan Rumble wrote:
>
>Is it possible to have a "global list" of emails whereby you select which 
>email address you want to attach to a list and when you delete an email 
>address (because the student leaves the department) it deletes it out of all the 
>lists where he/she is associated?


The command line tool remove_members will do this as in

bin/remove_members --fromall student at example.com

see

bin/remove_members --help

for more info.

The problem with the above is that if the same Mailman installation is
used for lists in multiple departments, the above will remove
student at example.com from all lists in all departments. I don't know
any other way to do this within Mailman.

You could create some process to use bin/list_members to create list by
list membership lists and manipulate that to create your global list.
Then you could just maintain your global list and perhaps reverse the
process to create new membership lists for the mailing lists and run
bin/sync_members to update the mailing list membership from these
lists.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 18:58:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:58:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
In-Reply-To: <D495D681-BFF5-49A3-93F7-6870CA58024D@mbari.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060411095839023474108431@msapiro>

Luis Bermudez wrote:

>- I see that qrunner is running: (ps -aux | grep .*qrunner.*)
>


IncomingRunner is not running.


>
>I am enclosing the qrunner log, the error log.
>
>
>qrunner.log
>
<snip>
>Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 12304, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
>[restarting]
>Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12305) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>(pid: 12305, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)  
>[restarting]
>Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum  
>restart limit of 10, not restarting.


It is dying and restarting until the limit is reached


>error.log
>
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300):      if dict.get('version', 0)  
>== 2:
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300): AttributeError :  'complex'  
>object has no attribute 'get'
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301): Traceback (most recent call last):
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
>qrunner", line 270, in ?
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      main()
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/ 
>qrunner", line 230, in main
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      qrunner.run()
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
>Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
>Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      msg, msgdata =  
>self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
>Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in dequeue
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      data = self._ext_read(dbfile)
>Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/ 
>Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264, in _ext_read
>
>
>Any help is very much appreciated.


A complete traceback would be better rather than the end of one and the
beginning of another, however, it appears that qfiles/in/ contains a
corrupt *.db file. The corrupt one is probably the oldest one.

You could try bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles on these files to try to
confirm that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bermudez at mbari.org  Tue Apr 11 20:56:11 2006
From: bermudez at mbari.org (Luis Bermudez)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 11:56:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060411095839023474108431@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060411095839023474108431@msapiro>
Message-ID: <832DF401-DB1D-40F4-924A-5D8106A8D840@mbari.org>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your fast response.

On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Luis Bermudez wrote:
>
>> - I see that qrunner is running: (ps -aux | grep .*qrunner.*)
>>
>
>
> IncomingRunner is not running.
>
>
>>
>> I am enclosing the qrunner log, the error log.
>>
>>
>> qrunner.log
>>
> <snip>
>> Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>> (pid: 12304, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>> [restarting]
>> Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12305) IncomingRunner qrunner started.
>> Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Master qrunner detected subprocess exit
>> (pid: 12305, sig: None, sts: 1, class: IncomingRunner, slice: 1/1)
>> [restarting]
>> Apr 11 06:35:39 2006 (12287) Qrunner IncomingRunner reached maximum
>> restart limit of 10, not restarting.
>
>
> It is dying and restarting until the limit is reached


Should I increase the limit, or 1O is ok ?

>
>
>> error.log
>>
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300):      if dict.get('version', 0)
>> == 2:
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12300): AttributeError :  'complex'
>> object has no attribute 'get'
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301): Traceback (most recent call  
>> last):
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/
>> qrunner", line 270, in ?
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      main()
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/
>> qrunner", line 230, in main
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      qrunner.run()
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/
>> Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 65, in run
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      filecnt = self._oneloop()
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/
>> Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 93, in _oneloop
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      msg, msgdata =
>> self._switchboard.dequeue(filebase)
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/
>> Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 156, in dequeue
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):      data = self._ext_read 
>> (dbfile)
>> Apr 11 06:35:38 2006 qrunner(12301):   File "/usr/share/mailman/
>> Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264, in _ext_read
>>
>>
>> Any help is very much appreciated.
>
>
> A complete traceback would be better rather than the end of one and  
> the
> beginning of another, however, it appears that qfiles/in/ contains a
> corrupt *.db file. The corrupt one is probably the oldest one.
>
> You could try bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles on these files to try to
> confirm that.

I have a lot of file under qfiles/in .db and .msg from April 8 to  
April 10. If you mean the oldest one leaving under that folder, you  
were right. Was one file from April 8th. I did under qfiles/in  /usr/ 
share/mailman/bin/dumpdb 1144517700.391892 
+9d0539757315ed1143fe2ffa0cb6d234d0093fde.db

I got this:

Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 134, in ?
     msg = main()
   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 121, in main
     d = DumperSwitchboard().read(filename)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 361,  
in read
     return self._ext_read(filename)
   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264,  
in _ext_read
     if dict.get('version', 0) == 2:
AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'get'

How should I fix it or do I have to delete it ?

Thanks very much again,

Luis


>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>






From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 11 21:27:59 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:27:59 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
In-Reply-To: <832DF401-DB1D-40F4-924A-5D8106A8D840@mbari.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041112275902658163a784@msapiro>

Luis Bermudez wrote:
>
>On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>> It is dying and restarting until the limit is reached
>
>
>Should I increase the limit, or 1O is ok ?


Don't change the limit. 10 is more than enough under normal
circumstances, and raising it won't help in this case because you have
a "hard" failure.


>I have a lot of file under qfiles/in .db and .msg from April 8 to  
>April 10. If you mean the oldest one leaving under that folder, you  
>were right. Was one file from April 8th. I did under qfiles/in  /usr/ 
>share/mailman/bin/dumpdb 1144517700.391892 
>+9d0539757315ed1143fe2ffa0cb6d234d0093fde.db
>
>I got this:
>
>Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 134, in ?
>     msg = main()
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 121, in main
>     d = DumperSwitchboard().read(filename)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 361,  
>in read
>     return self._ext_read(filename)
>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264,  
>in _ext_read
>     if dict.get('version', 0) == 2:
>AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'get'
>
>How should I fix it or do I have to delete it ?


I don't think you can fix it. You have to delete it or move it aside,
and likewise the
1144517700.391892+9d0539757315ed1143fe2ffa0cb6d234d0093fde.msg file if
any. The .msg file is an ordinary text file containing the message. If
you look at the file after moving it aside and decide the message
should be posted to the list, you can use bin/inject to requeue it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bermudez at mbari.org  Tue Apr 11 23:05:41 2006
From: bermudez at mbari.org (Luis Bermudez)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:05:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006041112275902658163a784@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006041112275902658163a784@msapiro>
Message-ID: <B26B38D4-124A-47F1-A894-FB26DCA00E8A@mbari.org>

Mark,

I deleted the file with the problem and the message.

Then I stopped and started mailman using  mailmanctl. Stop and  
restart the service from server admin (to be sure )  and now the  
lists are working  fine.

Some questions:

  - How does the file got corrupt it - Is there something else I have  
to check (upgrade etc..)  for this not to happen again ?
  - If mailman stops sending emails but restarting the service solves  
the problem what is it happening - what should I check the next time  
this happens.

Thank you very much.

Luis

On Apr 11, 2006, at 12:27 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Luis Bermudez wrote:
>>
>> On Apr 11, 2006, at 9:58 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>>
>>> It is dying and restarting until the limit is reached
>>
>>
>> Should I increase the limit, or 1O is ok ?
>
>
> Don't change the limit. 10 is more than enough under normal
> circumstances, and raising it won't help in this case because you have
> a "hard" failure.
>
>
>> I have a lot of file under qfiles/in .db and .msg from April 8 to
>> April 10. If you mean the oldest one leaving under that folder, you
>> were right. Was one file from April 8th. I did under qfiles/in  /usr/
>> share/mailman/bin/dumpdb 1144517700.391892
>> +9d0539757315ed1143fe2ffa0cb6d234d0093fde.db
>>
>> I got this:
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 134, in ?
>>     msg = main()
>>   File "/usr/share/mailman/bin/dumpdb", line 121, in main
>>     d = DumperSwitchboard().read(filename)
>>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 361,
>> in read
>>     return self._ext_read(filename)
>>   File "/usr/share/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Switchboard.py", line 264,
>> in _ext_read
>>     if dict.get('version', 0) == 2:
>> AttributeError: 'complex' object has no attribute 'get'
>>
>> How should I fix it or do I have to delete it ?
>
>
> I don't think you can fix it. You have to delete it or move it aside,
> and likewise the
> 1144517700.391892+9d0539757315ed1143fe2ffa0cb6d234d0093fde.msg file if
> any. The .msg file is an ordinary text file containing the message. If
> you look at the file after moving it aside and decide the message
> should be posted to the list, you can use bin/inject to requeue it.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>



From robertj at linux4free.com  Tue Apr 11 23:17:02 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:17:02 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
Message-ID: <200604112116.k3BLGteT022683@resources.rootsweb.com>

I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  Messages will
be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global accept for any
list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting also
needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.
 
Thanks
-Rob


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 00:05:08 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:05:08 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailman stop sending mails to the list
In-Reply-To: <B26B38D4-124A-47F1-A894-FB26DCA00E8A@mbari.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604111505080078aa34ed16@msapiro>

Luis Bermudez wrote:
>
>I deleted the file with the problem and the message.
>
>Then I stopped and started mailman using  mailmanctl. Stop and  
>restart the service from server admin (to be sure )  and now the  
>lists are working  fine.


Good.


>Some questions:
>
>  - How does the file got corrupt it - Is there something else I have  
>to check (upgrade etc..)  for this not to happen again ?


I don't know how it happened. Maybe a transient hardware error. You
could check Mailman's error log for the first error at the start of
the problem, but I doubt that it will relate to the cause. If there
was an exception in writing the original queue files, it might have
been passed back to the MTA via the mail/mailman wrapper, and there
might be something in the MTA log, but I doubt that too since the
xxx.db file is actually written as xxx.tmp and renamed to xxx.db as
the final step.


>  - If mailman stops sending emails but restarting the service solves  
>the problem what is it happening - what should I check the next time  
>this happens.


Probably one or more qrunners has stopped. See which qrunners are
running and which aren't. There are a total of 8 qrunners plus
mailmanctl that should be running always.

Check Mailman's qrunner and error logs. If these don't tell you why the
missing qrunner(s) stopped, check OS logs for further clues.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 00:32:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 15:32:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <200604112116.k3BLGteT022683@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604111532100875aa34f035@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  Messages will
>be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global accept for any
>list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting also
>needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.


You may be able to build what you want using Mailman's cron/gate_news
as a starting point.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From l.newland at comcast.net  Wed Apr 12 03:18:16 2006
From: l.newland at comcast.net (Lance Newland)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:18:16 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing
Message-ID: <000001c65dce$fdc1cae0$680fa8c0@Home>

Hello,

 

I have been having troubles with installing Mailman. I ran across your post
"Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing". I was hoping that you
did find a solution for this problem for I am having the same problem. I
have not been able to find solutions on the net and am probably approaching
the idea of finding a different solution. If you could give me any idea of
how to correct this I would greatly appreciate it.



From jeff.donsbach at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 03:28:15 2006
From: jeff.donsbach at gmail.com (Jeff Donsbach)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:28:15 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <200604112116.k3BLGteT022683@resources.rootsweb.com>
References: <200604112116.k3BLGteT022683@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <22976ef80604111828p1e3fc59ag8acb9b3f46e48655@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/11/06, Rob Jackson <robertj at linux4free.com> wrote:
> I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  Messages will
> be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global accept for any
> list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting also
> needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.
>

This might get you started:
http://www.mail2forum.com/wiki/Main_Page


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 03:52:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 18:52:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error: You are not authorized to create new
	mailing
In-Reply-To: <000001c65dce$fdc1cae0$680fa8c0@Home>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604111852400500da26233c@msapiro>

Lance Newland wrote:
>
>"Error: You are not authorized to create new mailing". I was hoping that you
>did find a solution for this problem for I am having the same problem.

The last item on the list create form is "List creator's
(authentication) password:". This password must be provided and it
must be either the site password or the special list creator password,
both set by bin/mmsitepass. See

bin/mmsitepass --help

for more information.

The only time the 'You are not authorized to create new mailing lists'
error is issued is when the passwords don't match. Either you haven't
set the password, or you aren't providing the correct password, or the
password is not being correctly passed by your web server in the post
data from the form to Mailman. For help on the last issue, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.045.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jeffret at bigfoot.com  Wed Apr 12 04:44:55 2006
From: jeffret at bigfoot.com (Jeff Thompson)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:44:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <22976ef80604111828p1e3fc59ag8acb9b3f46e48655@mail.gmail.com>
References: <200604112116.k3BLGteT022683@resources.rootsweb.com>
	<22976ef80604111828p1e3fc59ag8acb9b3f46e48655@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <443C69A7.6090302@bigfoot.com>

Jeff Donsbach wrote:
> On 4/11/06, Rob Jackson <robertj at linux4free.com> wrote:
>> I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  Messages will
>> be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global accept for any
>> list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting also
>> needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.
>>
> 
> This might get you started:
> http://www.mail2forum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Does anyone have any experience using Mail2Forum? Or even any good
information on its current status?

I've reviewed the referenced pages on their wiki but there wasn't much
there. I couldn't get a good feel from the wiki.

Jeff



From jason at womma.org  Wed Apr 12 05:28:14 2006
From: jason at womma.org (Jason Tugman)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:28:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer being attached
Message-ID: <64F9B87B6B770947A9F8391472E03216057EAF6B@ehost011-8.exch011.intermedia.net>

I've read as much on this as I can and I still have not found a solution. 
Problem:
We have a footer message set in our non-digest with legal text and disclaimers. When someone sends a message that containes HTML (which we have set to strip) or an attachment the footer is then not shown but rather is added as a .txt attachment. 

This is sloppy and annoying to our members and we legally need the footer to be there. Is there a solution?


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Apr 12 06:02:56 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 23:02:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Footer being attached
In-Reply-To: <64F9B87B6B770947A9F8391472E03216057EAF6B@ehost011-8.exch011.inter
	media.net>
References: <64F9B87B6B770947A9F8391472E03216057EAF6B@ehost011-8.exch011.inter
	media.net>
Message-ID: <p0620070cc0622c513e07@[192.168.1.65]>

At 8:28 PM -0700 2006-04-11, Jason Tugman wrote:

>  Problem:
>  We have a footer message set in our non-digest with legal text
>  and disclaimers. When someone sends a message that containes HTML (which
>  we have set to strip) or an attachment the footer is then not shown but
>  rather is added as a .txt attachment.

	Go to the FAQ Wizard at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> and search for "footer".

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jason at womma.org  Wed Apr 12 06:26:52 2006
From: jason at womma.org (Jason Tugman)
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:26:52 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] freelancer needed
Message-ID: <64F9B87B6B770947A9F8391472E03216057EAF6E@ehost011-8.exch011.intermedia.net>

I am looking for a skilled Mailman freelancer to help me configure an install of Mailman. If you have extensive working skills in Mailman and Linux command line please email me directly to discuss our needs. 

Thanks,
jason [at] womma [dot] org




From vicki at stanfield.net  Wed Apr 12 09:25:04 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 02:25:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412072504.2C3861099AE@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>

I had mailman-2.1.5 working fine on my Slackware 10.2 box for a while. Now all of a sudden it doesn't send or archive messages. I know that my ISP (using DSL) made some changes that originally had my system down. Now I am able to send and receive mail with postfix but no messages are being sent to the archives for my list or out to my users. There are qrunners running:

mailman    748  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    Apr11   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3127  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3128  0.0  0.6   9128  5804 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3129  0.0  0.6   9092  5788 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3130  0.0  0.6   9092  5784 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3131  0.0  0.6   9104  5812 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3132  0.0  0.6   9144  5856 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3133  0.0  0.6   9116  5784 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
mailman   3134  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
root      3275  0.0  0.0   1760   600 pts/4    R+   03:20   0:00 grep qrunner

Nothing is getting logged to my logs except the initial startup stuff. I can go to my admin pages for the list just fine, but since I reinstalled, I get only a message that there no messages have been sent to the list. I have restarted mailmanctl to no avail. I run check_perms and it gets no errors, but I am wondering if the files are correctly owned. Would incorrect ownership of files log to the error log?

Vic 


From vonbueren at id.unibe.ch  Wed Apr 12 11:56:01 2006
From: vonbueren at id.unibe.ch (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Peter_M_Von_B=FCren?=)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:56:01 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <20060412072504.2C3861099AE@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20060412072504.2C3861099AE@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <443CCEB1.8020301@id.unibe.ch>

Vicki Stanfield wrote:

>I had mailman-2.1.5 working fine on my Slackware 10.2 box for a while. Now all of a sudden it doesn't send or archive messages. I know that my ISP (using DSL) made some changes that originally had my system down. Now I am able to send and receive mail with postfix but no messages are being sent to the archives for my list or out to my users. There are qrunners running:
>
>mailman    748  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    Apr11   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3127  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=ArchRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3128  0.0  0.6   9128  5804 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=BounceRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3129  0.0  0.6   9092  5788 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=CommandRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3130  0.0  0.6   9092  5784 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=IncomingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3131  0.0  0.6   9104  5812 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=NewsRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3132  0.0  0.6   9144  5856 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=OutgoingRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3133  0.0  0.6   9116  5784 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=VirginRunner:0:1 -s
>mailman   3134  0.0  0.6   9120  5780 ?        S    02:48   0:00 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/mailman/bin/qrunner --runner=RetryRunner:0:1 -s
>root      3275  0.0  0.0   1760   600 pts/4    R+   03:20   0:00 grep qrunner
>
>Nothing is getting logged to my logs except the initial startup stuff. I can go to my admin pages for the list just fine, but since I reinstalled, I get only a message that there no messages have been sent to the list. I have restarted mailmanctl to no avail. I run check_perms and it gets no errors, but I am wondering if the files are correctly owned. Would incorrect ownership of files log to the error log?
>  
>
It would put a "Permission denied" Message in the error log, if there 
are no write permissions in the private archive directory for mailman.

>Vic 
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/vonbueren%40id.unibe.ch
>
>Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
>  
>


Peter



From michael at acrobat-technology.com  Wed Apr 12 12:55:22 2006
From: michael at acrobat-technology.com (michael at acrobat-technology.com)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:55:22 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator login
Message-ID: <443CEAAA.31933.9DBEFE@michael.acrobat-technology.com>

Hi

I am not sure wether I should post this here or not but here goes.

We recently setup Mailman 2.1.5 on our RAQ550 (redhat 2.4.19) with multiple hosts which 
was tricky.

Every thing seemed ok but we could not log onto the moderator section
the answer was quit simple there is a link in the footer for administrative, list overview etc but 
not for the moderator it would be nice to see a moderator link in future versions.

There is no obvious reference in the manual to the admindb link

I have added a link to the source code and is working on all our lists ok.

A search on google revealed other people with the same problem it could be they are not 
visiting the right link admin rather than admindb.


Michael Barnard
Acrobat Technology






From vicki at stanfield.net  Wed Apr 12 15:55:03 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:55:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412135503.565A510997A@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>

  It would put a "Permission denied" Message in the error log, if
  there are no write permissions in the private archive directory for
  mailman.

  Peter


  So I have no idea how to troubleshoot when it simply doesn't work and
  there are no errors being logged.

  Any ideas?

  Vic


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 16:27:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:27:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <20060412135503.565A510997A@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041207272807182cf79f2a@msapiro>

Vicki Stanfield wrote:
>
>  So I have no idea how to troubleshoot when it simply doesn't work and
>  there are no errors being logged.


Your previous post showed two copies of RetryRunner. This is probably
not the cause of your problem, but it should be cleaned up. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.068.htp>.

Have you checked all the things in
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>?

Are messages being queued anywhere? Check all the subdirectories of
qfiles/

Are messages even getting to Mailman? Check MTA logs.

Can Mailman send at all? Try sending yourself a password reminder.

I suggest at a minimimum you stop Mailman (mailmanctl stop), and make
sure everything is stopped as in FAQ 4.68. Then remove any files from
the locks/ directory and start Mailman. This may help if there were
spurious locks, but at a minimum it will give you a clean start.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 16:32:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 07:32:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Moderator login
In-Reply-To: <443CEAAA.31933.9DBEFE@michael.acrobat-technology.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604120732400500173bec3c@msapiro>

michael at acrobat-technology.com wrote:
>
>Every thing seemed ok but we could not log onto the moderator section
>the answer was quit simple there is a link in the footer for administrative, list overview etc but 
>not for the moderator it would be nice to see a moderator link in future versions.

It hasn't been felt to be necessary since every message sent to a
moderator regarding a required action contains the link.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From thomaswaters at mac.com  Wed Apr 12 16:28:55 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:28:55 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
Message-ID: <2432F107-D120-4A62-8C20-A85F35F41963@mac.com>

I'm having two problems concerning list archives.

Server: Apple XServe, OS X Server 10.4.5, Mailman 2.1.5

1) In the web interface for Admin, link to list archives does not  
have correct path.

I ran bin/fix_url, but that didn't fix the problem
the mm_cfg.py file lists correct default mail host and default url host

2) If I manually fix the URL for archives, I get a list of archives,  
but does not include all archives- none of the current months.  I do  
not know if 1) it isn't archiving or 2) there is a different issue here.

I think it may not be archiving because in the OS X Server Admin  
pane, looking at /var/mailman/logs/error, there are entries like:

Apr 12 10:18:02 2006 (475) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13]  
Permission denied: '/private/var/mailman/archives/private/rx2006/ 
database/2006-April-date.lock.rxweb.pharmacy.pitt.edu.475.2'

Permissions for /mailman/archives/  is   Owner: system RW, Group:  
mailman RW, Others: R

Thx,


--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 17:36:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:36:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <2432F107-D120-4A62-8C20-A85F35F41963@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>

Thomas Waters <thomaswaters at mac.com>
   Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:28:55 -0400
     To: mailman-users at python.org

>I'm having two problems concerning list archives.
>
>Server: Apple XServe, OS X Server 10.4.5, Mailman 2.1.5
>
>1) In the web interface for Admin, link to list archives does not  
>have correct path.
>
>I ran bin/fix_url, but that didn't fix the problem
>the mm_cfg.py file lists correct default mail host and default url host


Are these public or private archives. If public, in 2.1.5 two things
are involved:

  The Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py template PUBLIC_ARCHIVE_URL

  A look up of the list's host_name attribute in an inverted
  VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary.

This latter means that if you have an incorrect value for
DEFAULT_URL_HOST in Defaults.py, and you don't clear it in mm_cfg.py,
you can get the incorrect host. What you want in mm_cfg.py is:

DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = ...
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = ...
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)


>2) If I manually fix the URL for archives, I get a list of archives,  
>but does not include all archives- none of the current months.  I do  
>not know if 1) it isn't archiving or 2) there is a different issue here.
>
>I think it may not be archiving because in the OS X Server Admin  
>pane, looking at /var/mailman/logs/error, there are entries like:
>
>Apr 12 10:18:02 2006 (475) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13]  
>Permission denied: '/private/var/mailman/archives/private/rx2006/ 
>database/2006-April-date.lock.rxweb.pharmacy.pitt.edu.475.2'
>
>Permissions for /mailman/archives/  is   Owner: system RW, Group:  
>mailman RW, Others: R

That's OK, but you also need to check permissions on the higher
directories. There are several threads in the archives of this list
about permissions on Mac OS X. See for example
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users+%22permission+denied%22+mac+os>.

Also see the material linked at the end of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From vicki at stanfield.net  Wed Apr 12 19:00:04 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:00:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412170004.4AB4A4F5F0@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com>

  Sorry for top-posting, but the mail client I am using is obtuse.

  I was able to clean up the additional RetryRunner, but as you
  guessed, it didn't solve the problem.

  I ran through all the steps in the referenced URL, but it didn't fix
  it either. The messages don't appear to be being queued anywhere! I
  see the following in the /var/log/maillog of the mailman box when I
  try to post from my other email address (not on this box):

  Apr 12 12:53:54 thepenguin imapd[6760]: imap service init from
  127.0.0.1
  Apr 12 12:53:54 thepenguin imapd[6760]: Login user=vicki
  host=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
  Apr 12 12:53:56 thepenguin imapd[6760]: Logout user=vicki
  host=localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]
  Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6794]: k3CGt2Ru006794: from=<vicki at stanfield.net>,
  size=1064, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<20060412165510.C2EE14F58A at ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com>,
  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com
  [205.158.62.152]
  Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6798]: k3CGt2Ru006794: to=<homegroup at thepenguin.org>,
  delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=31277, dsn=2.0.0,
  stat=Sent

  I did receive the password reminder that I sent myself.

  I appreciate the help. Now what?

  Vicki


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 19:24:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:24:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <20060412170004.4AB4A4F5F0@ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121024250593ea3f708a@msapiro>

Vicki Stanfield wrote:

>  Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6794]: k3CGt2Ru006794: from=<vicki at stanfield.net>,
>  size=1064, class=0, nrcpts=1, msgid=<20060412165510.C2EE14F58A at ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com>,
>  proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com
>  [205.158.62.152]
>  Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6798]: k3CGt2Ru006794: to=<homegroup at thepenguin.org>,
>  delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=31277, dsn=2.0.0,
>  stat=Sent


Did this message wind up in a local mailbox 'homegroup' instead of
being piped to Mailman?


>  I did receive the password reminder that I sent myself.

Good.

Try creating a file containing a raw test message to the list with
headers. Then run

bin/inject -l listname filename

where listname is the name of the list (homegroup?) and filename is the
pathname of the file containing the test message. If this works, the
MTA is not successfully delivering the mail to Mailman.

You say you've gone through the steps in the FAQ. That includes
checking aliases so I assume they are OK, but has postalias been run
(you mentioned postfix in your original mail) to update the aliases.db
file and is the mailman aliases file referenced in alias_maps in
Postfix's main.cf?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From vicki at stanfield.net  Wed Apr 12 19:59:28 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:59:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412175928.BDEB5109956@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>

When I use inject, the message posts. What does that mean is wrong? 

  ----- Original Message -----
  From: "Mark Sapiro"
  To: "Vicki Stanfield" , vonbueren at id.unibe.ch,
  mailman-users at python.org
  Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
  Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:24:25 -0700


  Vicki Stanfield wrote:

  > Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6794]: k3CGt2Ru006794:
  > from=,
  > size=1064, class=0, nrcpts=1,
  > msgid=<20060412165510.C2EE14F58A at ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com>,
  > proto=ESMTP, daemon=MTA, relay=ws6-5.us4.outblaze.com
  > [205.158.62.152]
  > Apr 12 12:55:03 thepenguin sm-mta[6798]: k3CGt2Ru006794:
  > to=,
  > delay=00:00:01, xdelay=00:00:00, mailer=local, pri=31277,
  dsn=2.0.0,
  > stat=Sent


  Did this message wind up in a local mailbox 'homegroup' instead of
  being piped to Mailman?


  > I did receive the password reminder that I sent myself.

  Good.

  Try creating a file containing a raw test message to the list with
  headers. Then run

  bin/inject -l listname filename

  where listname is the name of the list (homegroup?) and filename is
  the
  pathname of the file containing the test message. If this works, the
  MTA is not successfully delivering the mail to Mailman.

  You say you've gone through the steps in the FAQ. That includes
  checking aliases so I assume they are OK, but has postalias been run
  (you mentioned postfix in your original mail) to update the
  aliases.db
  file and is the mailman aliases file referenced in alias_maps in
  Postfix's main.cf?

  --
  Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
  San Francisco Bay Area, California better use your sense - B. Dylan


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 12 20:04:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:04:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <20060412175928.BDEB5109956@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>
References: <20060412175928.BDEB5109956@ws6-4.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604121104x11f74fa0j4e1078e1b462c9c2@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/12/06, Vicki Stanfield <vicki at stanfield.net> wrote:
> When I use inject, the message posts. What does that mean is wrong?

This means that the message is not getting from Postfix to Mailman.
As Mark said, you should double-check that your aliases are set
properly, and that postfix is configured to make use of the aliases.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 20:19:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:19:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604121104x11f74fa0j4e1078e1b462c9c2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121119160515ea3f7033@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 4/12/06, Vicki Stanfield <vicki at stanfield.net> wrote:
>> When I use inject, the message posts. What does that mean is wrong?
>
>This means that the message is not getting from Postfix to Mailman.
>As Mark said, you should double-check that your aliases are set
>properly, and that postfix is configured to make use of the aliases.


Exactly. And, as I hinted previously, if you look in /var/mail/ or
wherever your incoming mailboxes are, I suspect you'll find a
'homegroup' mailbox that contains all your "posts".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From channan99 at yahoo.com  Wed Apr 12 21:39:28 2006
From: channan99 at yahoo.com (Chan Nan)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:39:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why mailman still sending email to an in-active
	mailing list?
Message-ID: <20060412193928.40077.qmail@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hello,

I had a pretty strange case regarding an old,
terminated mailing list yet still sending out emails
to members.  I searched and googled everywhere but
still don't know how to fix it.

Case info: I had a domain with a mailing list (using
mailman) a few years ago.  However, I dropped my
domain (but didn't do anytning with mailman) later on.
 I assumed the mailing list will be terminated itself.
 Later on, someone else got the domain and hosted with
an ISP outthere, nothing to do with me.  I recently
found out that my members still geting the email from
the mailing list to them.  Here's some info from my
member's mail:

From: Mailman-bounces at uranium.nocdirect.com
> [mailto:Mailman-bounces at uranium.nocdirect.com] On
Behalf Of > mailman-owner at xyz.com
(where xyz.com) is my old domain

My question is "What does it have to do with
nocdirect.com?".  There's not much info about
nocdirect.com that I can find on the web.  I sent the
info to xyz.com and ask them to look into it for the
time being.  Shouldn't mailman automatically
terminated if the server has been changed ownership
(and physical box)?

Thanks in advanced for any pointer you may have...




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From robertj at linux4free.com  Wed Apr 12 22:31:01 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:31:01 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604111532100875aa34f035@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200604122030.k3CKUueT000569@resources.rootsweb.com>

Messages are sent from the message board real time.  The news gateway is
either set up a a cron to contact the news server to get new messages.

So unless there is something I am missing, I am not sure this will work for
what I need.

-Rob
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Mark Sapiro [mailto:msapiro at value.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 4:32 PM
To: Rob Jackson; mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  Messages 
>will be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global accept
for any
>list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting also
>needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.


You may be able to build what you want using Mailman's cron/gate_news as a
starting point.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From robertj at linux4free.com  Wed Apr 12 22:33:55 2006
From: robertj at linux4free.com (Rob Jackson)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:33:55 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <22976ef80604111828p1e3fc59ag8acb9b3f46e48655@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <200604122033.k3CKXoeT001275@resources.rootsweb.com>

I already have a Message Board set up with a dummy user account, which is
actually the mailing list address.  This user is set to receive ever post to
the message board in e-mail format.  I know I can just add the from: email
address to the list of subscribers, but with many lists, and new lists being
created, I really want it to be a global accept.  I also don't want the list
admins to be able to remove this account from the subcribers.

-Rob
 

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+robertj=linux4free.com at python.org] On Behalf
Of Jeff Donsbach
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 7:28 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway

On 4/11/06, Rob Jackson <robertj at linux4free.com> wrote:
> I have a message board that I want to integrate with mailman.  
> Messages will be sent from the message board to the list.  I need a global
accept for any
> list to accept messages coming from the message boards.   This setting
also
> needs to be either invisible or not removable from any list.
>

This might get you started:
http://www.mail2forum.com/wiki/Main_Page
------------------------------------------------------
Mailman-Users mailing list
Mailman-Users at python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/robertj%40linux4free.co
m

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 22:35:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:35:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why mailman still sending email to an
	in-activemailing list?
In-Reply-To: <20060412193928.40077.qmail@web32201.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121335160250ea3f6f2a@msapiro>

Chan Nan wrote:
>
>Case info: I had a domain with a mailing list (using
>mailman) a few years ago.  However, I dropped my
>domain (but didn't do anytning with mailman) later on.
> I assumed the mailing list will be terminated itself.


Was this a hosted domain and Mailman? If so, the hosting provider
should have removed your Mailman list when you quit paying your bill.


> Later on, someone else got the domain and hosted with
>an ISP outthere, nothing to do with me.  I recently
>found out that my members still geting the email from
>the mailing list to them.  Here's some info from my
>member's mail:
>
>From: Mailman-bounces at uranium.nocdirect.com
>> [mailto:Mailman-bounces at uranium.nocdirect.com] On
>Behalf Of > mailman-owner at xyz.com
>(where xyz.com) is my old domain
>
>My question is "What does it have to do with
>nocdirect.com?".


This looks like a password reminder email. uranium.nocdirect.com is the
current host_name attribute of the mailman (site) list that sent the
mail, xyz.com is the host_name of the list(s) for which the password
reminders are being sent.


>There's not much info about
>nocdirect.com that I can find on the web.  I sent the
>info to xyz.com and ask them to look into it for the
>time being.


whois nocdirect.com

shows

   Jaguar Technologies LLC
   client_of jaguar (sales at jaguarpc.com)
   +1.7139601502
   Fax: +1.7139601581
   4201 SW Freeway
   Houston, TX 77027
   US

as the contact info for all 3 (administrative, technical and
registrant) contacts.


>Shouldn't mailman automatically
>terminated if the server has been changed ownership
>(and physical box)?


Mailman itself is not aware of any of this. It would be up to the
hosting provider to delete old lists in a domain or server before
turning it over to a new customer.

Note that the current xyz.com domain may have nothing to do with this.
The list still exists on some box somewhere and still has a host_name
attribute of xyz.com, but this doesn't mean that that box has an
address in the xyz.com domain.

<http://uranium.nocdirect.com/mailman/listinfo> is a valid URL for a
Mailman installation. It is this installation, wherever it is, that
still has your list on it. It is unlikely that you could access it
either by web or email at the xyz.com domain, since that address is
presumably now hosted elsewhere, but if you append your list name to
the above URL or to the <http://uranium.nocdirect.com/mailman/admin>
URL, you might be able to access your old list and delete all the
members or possibly even delete the list if the site allows it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From vicki at stanfield.net  Wed Apr 12 22:52:09 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:52:09 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412205209.73A66DA534@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com>

I can't seem to get the alias stuff set up right. Here is what I have
done:


cd /usr/local/mailman
ran bin/genaliases
chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
chmod g+w data/aliases*

changed the alias_maps definition in main.cf to:

alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

verified that there were actually /etc/postfix/aliases and
/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases files.

restarted postfix and mailman

Tried to send a test mail using mutt, but system just hangs.

Oh, and I ran newaliases again just for the fun of it.

Can you see what I am missing here?

Vic


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 22:56:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:56:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Global incoming gateway
In-Reply-To: <200604122033.k3CKXoeT001275@resources.rootsweb.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121356410359ea3f6fb0@msapiro>

Rob Jackson wrote:

>I already have a Message Board set up with a dummy user account, which is
>actually the mailing list address.  This user is set to receive ever post to
>the message board in e-mail format.  I know I can just add the from: email
>address to the list of subscribers, but with many lists, and new lists being
>created, I really want it to be a global accept.  I also don't want the list
>admins to be able to remove this account from the subcribers.


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.067.htp>
on implementing a custom handler in Mailman. What you want is a
handler early in the pipeline, probably just before or after the
existing 'Approve' handler and before 'Moderate' in any case, that
will recognize based on some set of message attributes (header values,
etc.) a message from the Message Board and set 'approved':1 in the
message metadata. It should also check x-beenthere: headers for loops,
and maybe set 'adminapproved':1 as well if you want such messages to
bypass emergency moderation.

Look at the Mailman/Handlers/Approve.py for a more detailed idea of
what is required.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 23:08:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:08:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
In-Reply-To: <20060412205209.73A66DA534@ws6-6.us4.outblaze.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121408310625ea3f70b0@msapiro>

Vicki Stanfield wrote:
>
>I can't seem to get the alias stuff set up right. Here is what I have
>done:
>
>
>cd /usr/local/mailman
>ran bin/genaliases
>chown mailman:mailman data/aliases*
>chmod g+w data/aliases*
>
>changed the alias_maps definition in main.cf to:
>
>alias_maps = hash:/etc/postfix/aliases,
>hash:/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases

Do you have

MTA = 'Postfix'

in mm_cfg.py? Is the value of POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD in Defaults.py
('/usr/sbin/postalias') correct for your 'postalias' command, and if
not have you provided the correct path in mm_cfg.py?


>verified that there were actually /etc/postfix/aliases and
>/usr/local/mailman/data/aliases files.


How about /usr/local/mailman/data/aliases.db? As new or newer than
'aliases'?


>restarted postfix and mailman
>
>Tried to send a test mail using mutt, but system just hangs.


What does "just hangs" mean? What did Postfix do with the mail?


>Oh, and I ran newaliases again just for the fun of it.
>
>Can you see what I am missing here?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From thomaswaters at mac.com  Wed Apr 12 23:09:24 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:09:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
Message-ID: <AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>


On Apr 12, 2006, at 11:36 AM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> This latter means that if you have an incorrect value for
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST in Defaults.py, and you don't clear it in mm_cfg.py,
> you can get the incorrect host. What you want in mm_cfg.py is:
>
> DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = ...
> DEFAULT_URL_HOST = ...
> VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
> add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>

Default.py had different values than mm_cfg.py for default url host.   
I correcterd it, and the link from the web admin is now correct and  
functioning.  Thx.


> That's OK, but you also need to check permissions on the higher
> directories. There are several threads in the archives of this list
> about permissions on Mac OS X. See for example
> <http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl% 
> 3Amailman-users+%22permission+denied%22+mac+os>.
>
> Also see the material linked at the end of
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py? 
> req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.


I will go over all of this more thoroughly, however, I ran check  
perms and it fixed much.  I also ran bin/arch and it appeared to do a  
lot.  However, when I hit the archives the shown list is just the  
same as it was before running these two things.


--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu




From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 12 23:18:49 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:18:49 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121418490968ea3f7219@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:
>
>I will go over all of this more thoroughly, however, I ran check  
>perms and it fixed much.  I also ran bin/arch and it appeared to do a  
>lot.  However, when I hit the archives the shown list is just the  
>same as it was before running these two things.

It is likely, that the messages with the problems didn't get in the
archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file in the first place,
so they weren't there for bin/arch. They are however (or were at one
time) in the shunt queue, so running bin/unshunt now that the
permissions are fixed should get them archived.

Be careful however. before running bin/unshunt, look at qfiles/shunt/
and maybe dump some of the entries with bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb
to make soure that there aren't other entries there that you may not
want unshunted.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From vicki at stanfield.net  Thu Apr 13 00:44:04 2006
From: vicki at stanfield.net (Vicki Stanfield)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:44:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
Message-ID: <20060412224404.1C8A72F8D2@ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com>

I got it working. I thought that there was an /etc/postfix/aliases.db, but that must have been the last time I rebuilt it.
I ran postalias on /etc/postfix/aliases and it is working again. I appreciate your patience.

Vic


From batsonjay at sipforum.org  Thu Apr 13 00:16:00 2006
From: batsonjay at sipforum.org (Jay Batson)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:16:00 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off Auto-discard notifications
Message-ID: <AD7D4E63-F214-43F5-AC35-5520BD8F86DA@sipforum.org>

As a list admin, I've set some names to be auto-discarded (done as I  
process administrative requests.)

Now, I'm getting Auto-discard notifications for these messages.  I'd  
like to turn off the Auto-discard notification.

I don't seem to see a config option for doing so in the web-based  
admin interface.  Also, I can't seem to see a page where I can go  
edit the list of addresses that are in the auto-discard list.

What am I missing?  Where do I do this?

I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on RedHat.

RSVP
thanks
-jb

----------
Jay Batson
Acting Managing Director, Chairman
batsonjay at sipforum.org
+1-978-824-0111



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 13 01:31:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:31:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off Auto-discard notifications
In-Reply-To: <AD7D4E63-F214-43F5-AC35-5520BD8F86DA@sipforum.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604121631540046ea3f6e84@msapiro>

Jay Batson wrote:
>
>Now, I'm getting Auto-discard notifications for these messages.  I'd  
>like to turn off the Auto-discard notification.
>
>I don't seem to see a config option for doing so in the web-based  
>admin interface.  Also, I can't seem to see a page where I can go  
>edit the list of addresses that are in the auto-discard list.


Privacy options...->Sender filters

  discard_these_nonmembers
  generic_nonmember_action
  forward_auto_discards

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Apr 13 02:15:28 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:15:28 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
References: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
	<AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>

At 5:09 PM -0400 2006-04-12, Thomas Waters wrote:

>  Default.py had different values than mm_cfg.py for default url host.
>  I correcterd it, and the link from the web admin is now correct and
>  functioning.  Thx.

	You should leave Defaults.py alone, and make all your 
corrections/changes in mm_cfg.py.  Defaults.py will get replaced when 
you upgrade your Mailman installation, but mm_cfg.py won't.  If 
you've made all your changes to Defaults.py and not mm_cfg.py, then 
when you upgrade all your changes will be gone and all your lists 
will disappear.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From channan99 at yahoo.com  Thu Apr 13 13:32:30 2006
From: channan99 at yahoo.com (Chan Nan)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 04:32:30 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Why mailman still sending email to an in-active
	mailing list?
Message-ID: <20060413113230.64310.qmail@web32205.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Thanks a lot for your quick response.  It makes sense
now.  I probably hosted my domain with an ISP (now
became jaguarpc) in the past.  Somehow I thought I
hosted at a friend's server (no longer exists) from
home :)


Chan Nan wrote:
>
>Case info: I had a domain with a mailing list (using
>mailman) a few years ago.  However, I dropped my
>domain (but didn't do anytning with mailman) later
on.
> I assumed the mailing list will be terminated
itself.


Was this a hosted domain and Mailman? If so, the
hosting provider
should have removed your Mailman list when you quit
paying your bill.


> Later on, someone else got the domain and hosted
with
>an ISP outthere, nothing to do with me.  I recently
>found out that my members still geting the email from
>the mailing list to them.  Here's some info from my
>member's mail:
>
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(where xyz.com) is my old domain
>
>My question is "What does it have to do with
>nocdirect.com?".


This looks like a password reminder email.
uranium.nocdirect.com is the
current host_name attribute of the mailman (site) list
that sent the
mail, xyz.com is the host_name of the list(s) for
which the password
reminders are being sent.


>There's not much info about
>nocdirect.com that I can find on the web.  I sent the
>info to xyz.com and ask them to look into it for the
>time being.


whois nocdirect.com

shows

   Jaguar Technologies LLC
   client_of jaguar ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   +1.7139601502
   Fax: +1.7139601581
   4201 SW Freeway
   Houston, TX 77027
   US

as the contact info for all 3 (administrative,
technical and
registrant) contacts.


>Shouldn't mailman automatically
>terminated if the server has been changed ownership
>(and physical box)?


Mailman itself is not aware of any of this. It would
be up to the
hosting provider to delete old lists in a domain or
server before
turning it over to a new customer.

Note that the current xyz.com domain may have nothing
to do with this.
The list still exists on some box somewhere and still
has a host_name
attribute of xyz.com, but this doesn't mean that that
box has an
address in the xyz.com domain.

<http://uranium.nocdirect.com/mailman/listinfo> is a
valid URL for a
Mailman installation. It is this installation,
wherever it is, that
still has your list on it. It is unlikely that you
could access it
either by web or email at the xyz.com domain, since
that address is
presumably now hosted elsewhere, but if you append
your list name to
the above URL or to the
<http://uranium.nocdirect.com/mailman/admin>
URL, you might be able to access your old list and
delete all the
members or possibly even delete the list if the site
allows it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>       The highway is
for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your
sense - B. Dylan

------------------------------------------------------



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From thomaswaters at mac.com  Thu Apr 13 15:41:41 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:41:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
	<AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
	<p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <69480ADA-3378-4D06-8103-9FF4176DE5C0@mac.com>

rad,
I understand the "why" of this, but don't understand the problem or  
fix to the problem.

Our mm_cfg.py file listed the correct values for Default URL and  
Default host, so I don't understand how/why the default.py file was  
1) wrong, and 2) over-riding the mm_cfg.py file.  I guess I don't  
understand how these two files relate to each other.


On Apr 12, 2006, at 8:15 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:

> At 5:09 PM -0400 2006-04-12, Thomas Waters wrote:
>
>>  Default.py had different values than mm_cfg.py for default url host.
>>  I correcterd it, and the link from the web admin is now correct and
>>  functioning.  Thx.
>
> 	You should leave Defaults.py alone, and make all your corrections/ 
> changes in mm_cfg.py.  Defaults.py will get replaced when you  
> upgrade your Mailman installation, but mm_cfg.py won't.  If you've  
> made all your changes to Defaults.py and not mm_cfg.py, then when  
> you upgrade all your changes will be gone and all your lists will  
> disappear.
>
> -- 
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.



From luisayalacm at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 15:50:55 2006
From: luisayalacm at gmail.com (Luis Alberto Ayala Calderon)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:50:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 26, Issue 26
In-Reply-To: <mailman.27.1144922408.11233.mailman-users@python.org>
References: <mailman.27.1144922408.11233.mailman-users@python.org>
Message-ID: <d1dbbb260604130650x31ed8d90y176ea0b72f9e37d3@mail.gmail.com>

Hola a todos como estan, quisiera saber a que lista estamos necesito saber
para la exposici?n de mi tesis, esto a mas tardar para el d?a de ma?ana

Nota. My exposition will monday 17 April 2006, Thank?s to all, my friend's
......
:)

2006/4/13, mailman-users-request at python.org <
mailman-users-request at python.org>:
>
> Send Mailman-Users mailing list submissions to
>         mailman-users at python.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         mailman-users-request at python.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         mailman-users-owner at python.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Mailman-Users digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Archive problems (Mark Sapiro)
>    2. Re: Can't get list to post messages (Vicki Stanfield)
>    3. Turning off Auto-discard notifications (Jay Batson)
>    4. Re: Turning off Auto-discard notifications (Mark Sapiro)
>    5. Re: Archive problems (Brad Knowles)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:18:49 -0700
> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
> To: Thomas Waters <thomaswaters at mac.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <PC1740200604121418490968ea3f7219 at msapiro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Thomas Waters wrote:
> >
> >I will go over all of this more thoroughly, however, I ran check
> >perms and it fixed much.  I also ran bin/arch and it appeared to do a
> >lot.  However, when I hit the archives the shown list is just the
> >same as it was before running these two things.
>
> It is likely, that the messages with the problems didn't get in the
> archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox file in the first place,
> so they weren't there for bin/arch. They are however (or were at one
> time) in the shunt queue, so running bin/unshunt now that the
> permissions are fixed should get them archived.
>
> Be careful however. before running bin/unshunt, look at qfiles/shunt/
> and maybe dump some of the entries with bin/show_qfiles or bin/dumpdb
> to make soure that there aren't other entries there that you may not
> want unshunted.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:44:04 -0500
> From: "Vicki Stanfield" <vicki at stanfield.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can't get list to post messages
> To: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>,  "Patrick Bogen"
>         <pdbogen at gmail.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <20060412224404.1C8A72F8D2 at ws6-3.us4.outblaze.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I got it working. I thought that there was an /etc/postfix/aliases.db, but
> that must have been the last time I rebuilt it.
> I ran postalias on /etc/postfix/aliases and it is working again. I
> appreciate your patience.
>
> Vic
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 18:16:00 -0400
> From: Jay Batson <batsonjay at sipforum.org>
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] Turning off Auto-discard notifications
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <AD7D4E63-F214-43F5-AC35-5520BD8F86DA at sipforum.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> As a list admin, I've set some names to be auto-discarded (done as I
> process administrative requests.)
>
> Now, I'm getting Auto-discard notifications for these messages.  I'd
> like to turn off the Auto-discard notification.
>
> I don't seem to see a config option for doing so in the web-based
> admin interface.  Also, I can't seem to see a page where I can go
> edit the list of addresses that are in the auto-discard list.
>
> What am I missing?  Where do I do this?
>
> I'm running Mailman 2.1.5 on RedHat.
>
> RSVP
> thanks
> -jb
>
> ----------
> Jay Batson
> Acting Managing Director, Chairman
> batsonjay at sipforum.org
> +1-978-824-0111
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:31:54 -0700
> From: Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Turning off Auto-discard notifications
> To: Jay Batson <batsonjay at sipforum.org>, mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <PC1740200604121631540046ea3f6e84 at msapiro>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> Jay Batson wrote:
> >
> >Now, I'm getting Auto-discard notifications for these messages.  I'd
> >like to turn off the Auto-discard notification.
> >
> >I don't seem to see a config option for doing so in the web-based
> >admin interface.  Also, I can't seem to see a page where I can go
> >edit the list of addresses that are in the auto-discard list.
>
>
> Privacy options...->Sender filters
>
>   discard_these_nonmembers
>   generic_nonmember_action
>   forward_auto_discards
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 19:15:28 -0500
> From: Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
> To: Thomas Waters <thomaswaters at mac.com>
> Cc: mailman-users at python.org
> Message-ID: <p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
>
> At 5:09 PM -0400 2006-04-12, Thomas Waters wrote:
>
> >  Default.py had different values than mm_cfg.py for default url host.
> >  I correcterd it, and the link from the web admin is now correct and
> >  functioning.  Thx.
>
>         You should leave Defaults.py alone, and make all your
> corrections/changes in mm_cfg.py.  Defaults.py will get replaced when
> you upgrade your Mailman installation, but mm_cfg.py won't.  If
> you've made all your changes to Defaults.py and not mm_cfg.py, then
> when you upgrade all your changes will be gone and all your lists
> will disappear.
>
> --
> Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>
>
> "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
> temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
>
>      -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
>      Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755
>
>   LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>
> End of Mailman-Users Digest, Vol 26, Issue 26
> *********************************************
>



--
Saludos......
Att. Ing. Luis Ayala


From meta.mihelcic at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 19:02:23 2006
From: meta.mihelcic at gmail.com (Meta)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:02:23 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SANE
Message-ID: <443E841F.4040805@gmail.com>

Hi!
I would be really happy if you can help me. I'm trying to find 'a way 
out', but it doesn't seem I came far.... I'm not Linux expert, so I 
don't understand all this stuff ;(

I need to install Sane to use scanner. I use Linux 10.0. I saved the 
above mention file to my computer, but then I don't know how to proceed 
further. I tried different ways, but nothing helps. I tried to use your 
system to ask, but I can't find the way through it... Terrible am I...

If you can help me and at least refer me to some easy information, I'd 
be very grateful.

Best regards,
Meta


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Apr 13 19:25:48 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:25:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <69480ADA-3378-4D06-8103-9FF4176DE5C0@mac.com>
References: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
	<AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
	<p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>
	<69480ADA-3378-4D06-8103-9FF4176DE5C0@mac.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071ac064385910d9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 9:41 AM -0400 2006-04-13, Thomas Waters wrote:

>  Our mm_cfg.py file listed the correct values for Default URL and
>  Default host, so I don't understand how/why the default.py file was
>  1) wrong,

	It wasn't wrong.  Or, at least it shouldn't have been "wrong", 
since that file is only supposed to supply the default values as 
provided with the Mailman code.

>            and 2) over-riding the mm_cfg.py file.  I guess I don't
>  understand how these two files relate to each other.

	The mm_cfg.py file should over-ride any conflicting values that 
are found in Defaults.py.  That's the whole purpose of this file -- 
we provide a set of defaults for you in Defaults.py, and then if you 
want anything different you put those things in mm_cfg.py.


	Now, what may be tripping you up is some of the values specified 
in the configuration files are additive -- it's not either/or, but 
both.  So, if Defaults.py specifies things one way and mm_cfg.py 
specifies something else, it's not that the values in Defaults.py get 
over-ridden, but instead the values specified in the mm_cfg.py file 
get added to whatever is defined in Defaults.py.

	However, these things are only additive in the areas where it 
makes sense for that to happen, so you should go back to the 
installation instructions and make sure that you understand which 
configuration options are used for what, and precisely what is used 
where and in what format.


	In particular, quoting is very important.  If you get the quoting 
wrong (using the wrong type of quote characters or in the wrong 
place), then you definitely will not get what you expected.

	In addition, white space is important -- Python uses white space 
indentation as block formatting.  So:

		This

	Is not the same as:

			This

	Why?  Because the leading white space is different.


	IIRC, there shouldn't be any leading white space anywhere in 
either of these configuration files, and all of our documentation 
showing the various configuration options should be free of any 
leading white space.

	If you've got any leading white space, you should check to make 
sure that it is appropriate for that particular configuration option 
in that particular place.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Thu Apr 13 19:31:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:31:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SANE
In-Reply-To: <443E841F.4040805@gmail.com>
References: <443E841F.4040805@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071bc0643aa69b09@[192.168.1.65]>

At 7:02 PM +0200 2006-04-13, Meta wrote:

>  I need to install Sane to use scanner. I use Linux 10.0. I saved the
>  above mention file to my computer, but then I don't know how to proceed
>  further. I tried different ways, but nothing helps. I tried to use your
>  system to ask, but I can't find the way through it... Terrible am I...

	Sorry, what is SANE?  To me, that's the Systems And Network 
Engineering conference co-sponsored by USENIX and the Dutch Unix 
Users Group (NLUUG) that is being held this year in Delft, in the 
Netherlands -- that's a small country over in Europe, north of 
Belgium and west of Germany.

	And what distribution are you using?  Linux by itself is just the 
kernel (core OS), and there are over a hundred well known 
distributions on top of this kernel.  There is SuSE, Slackware, 
Debian (with many variations of Debian), RedHat, and many, many 
others.

>  If you can help me and at least refer me to some easy information, I'd
>  be very grateful.

	If you can provide us more information about the systems you're 
using and the questions you're asking, we'll be more likely to either 
be able to help or at least point you at a place where you're more 
likely to get help.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From thomaswaters at mac.com  Thu Apr 13 20:55:53 2006
From: thomaswaters at mac.com (Thomas Waters)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:55:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <p0620071ac064385910d9@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <PC17402006041208363800785812cb54@msapiro>
	<AFED6E48-23DD-44EC-9F22-9B4F51BFD2C4@mac.com>
	<p0620070ec063484accfa@[192.168.1.65]>
	<69480ADA-3378-4D06-8103-9FF4176DE5C0@mac.com>
	<p0620071ac064385910d9@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <1FC8706F-D390-4B75-84D2-B44DD3A5425D@mac.com>


On Apr 13, 2006, at 1:25 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
>
> 	The mm_cfg.py file should over-ride any conflicting values that  
> are found in Defaults.py.  That's the whole purpose of this file --  
> we provide a set of defaults for you in Defaults.py, and then if  
> you want anything different you put those things in mm_cfg.py.
>
>
> 	Now, what may be tripping you up is some of the values specified  
> in the configuration files are additive -- it's not either/or, but  
> both.  So, if Defaults.py specifies things one way and mm_cfg.py  
> specifies something else, it's not that the values in Defaults.py  
> get over-ridden, but instead the values specified in the mm_cfg.py  
> file get added to whatever is defined in Defaults.py.
>
> 	However, these things are only additive in the areas where it  
> makes sense for that to happen, so you should go back to the  
> installation instructions and make sure that you understand which  
> configuration options are used for what, and precisely what is used  
> where and in what format.

Maybe the mm_cfg.py file is not being used- or there is something  
wrong with it, so Mailman is using the default.py file.

The largest piece of this problem unresolved is the list of archives  
is not complete.  The list includes only a few months at the end of  
2005.  I do not seem to be able to get this list to show all archives.



--
Thomas Waters
Director of Information and Communication Services
University of Pittsburgh School of Pharmacy
412-383-7471
waterstc at pitt.edu
http://www.pharmacy.pitt.edu




From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Thu Apr 13 21:47:07 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:47:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006021220031807665e48bc10@msapiro>
References: <98a90c220602121900p7d701c73qe2f7ed8019af288e@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006021220031807665e48bc10@msapiro>
Message-ID: <98a90c220604131247mc176055m46f0d78e7f9caaab@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I recently migrated mailman to a RH Linux server (previously it was a SPARC
Solaris box).
For re-directing having all bounces from any list be to the 'mailman' list
posting address, I updated the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as below. I
beleive that this was what I did on the Solaris box earlier. But, now on the
RH Linux box, the -bounce emails are not getting redirected to the mailman
list.

Is something changed for RH Linux?
Or, am I missing somethign else?

Any help is appreaciated.

# Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
    #envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
    #if envsender is None:
    #    if mlist:
    #        envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
    #    else:
    #        envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
    ## Envelope sender (bounces) is always the site list.
    envsender = 'mailman at name.com'
    # Time to split up the recipient list.  If we're personalizing or
VERPing
    # then each chunk will have exactly one recipient.  We'll then hand
craft

Thanks
Tom

On 2/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>
> Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
> >
> >>If you're thinking that you can get around the issue by having all
> bounces
> >from any list be
> >>returned to the 'mailman' list posting address, you could do this in the
> >source code, but >not by using aliases on mine.name.com.
> >
> >Yes, this is precisely what I want to accomplish. Could you point me to
> some
> >place, or the portion of the code that needs to be tinkered with. I am
> not a
> >perl/python person, so this is going to be a huge learning curve for me.
>
>
> There are two obvious ways that jump to mind.
>
> The first, which will address the bounce issue for all mail, is the
> following code at the beginning of the process() function in
> Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
>
>     # Calculate the non-VERP envelope sender.
>     envsender = msgdata.get('envsender')
>     if envsender is None:
>         if mlist:
>             envsender = mlist.GetBouncesEmail()
>         else:
>             envsender = Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces')
>
> which could simply be replaced by something like
>
>     # Envelope sender (bounces) is always the site list.
>     envsender = 'mailman at name.com'
>
> Don't worry about VERP because it is calculated from envsender.
>
> Another way to do it would be to modify the getListAddress() method
> definition in Mailman/MailList.py to just return 'mailman at name.com'
> when extra is not None and similarly modify get_site_email() in
> Mailman/Utils.py to ignore the extra argument.
>
> Then it might be possible to do it in your outgoing MTA, not with
> aliases, but with some kind of rewrite of the envelope sender on
> outgoing mail if your MTA supports such a thing.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


From rjulien at cox.net  Thu Apr 13 22:39:01 2006
From: rjulien at cox.net (rjulien at cox.net)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:39:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A little help please
Message-ID: <20060413203901.HSWA29406.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.52.8]>

Well, I have managed to bollox up my perfectly functioning mailman install, at the request of my Sr Manager.

Said Sr Manager decided that they did not like the name we had chosen for our domain, so they asked us to change it.  When we changed it, the mail does not work.  Sigh.

I can launch the web pages, add subtract, modify and view the list info.  It just does not communicate.  Clearly I am just missing somewhere in the systems where I need to change the domain name.

I probably am overthinking this one, and the answer is right in front of me - but I am fried and not thinking well.

Can somebody point ou my brain dead oversight?

Much obliged to any who can.

Rich

Clarification- 

Running 2.1.7
Apache
Solaris 10

Rich Julien
Vice President and CTO
IntelDynamics LLC
Alexandria VA
W: (703) 721-9587
C: (571) 238-4944



From cpz at tuunq.com  Thu Apr 13 23:17:53 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:17:53 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A little help please
In-Reply-To: <20060413203901.HSWA29406.eastrmmtao05.cox.net@[172.18.52.8]> from
	"rjulien@cox.net" at "Apr 13, 2006 04:39:01 pm"
Message-ID: <20060413211753.D3DEB7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, rjulien at cox.net wrote:
> Said Sr Manager decided that they did not like the name we had chosen for our domain, so they asked us to change it.  When we changed it, the mail does not work.  Sigh.

> I can launch the web pages, add subtract, modify and view the list info.  It just does not communicate.  Clearly I am just missing somewhere in the systems where I need to change the domain name.

> I probably am overthinking this one, and the answer is right in front of me - but I am fried and not thinking well.


Are incoming messages delivered by the MTA to Mailman?
Do you see Mainman handing message back to the MTA?
Anything interesting in the log files, for both Mailman and the MTA?

z!


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 03:16:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:16:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive problems
In-Reply-To: <1FC8706F-D390-4B75-84D2-B44DD3A5425D@mac.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041318161307815f343eda@msapiro>

Thomas Waters wrote:
>
>Maybe the mm_cfg.py file is not being used- or there is something  
>wrong with it, so Mailman is using the default.py file.


I told you the correct way to fix this in mm_cfg.py in my first reply
to your original post. You even quoted it back in your response.

Here's the issue:

Defaults.py contains

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'uhost1.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ehost.example.com'
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

This creates a VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary with one key as follows:

{'uhost1.example.com': 'ehost.example.com'}

Now you put the following in mm_cfg.py

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'uhost2.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ehost.example.com'

and presumably

add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Now the VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary contains:

{'uhost1.example.com': 'ehost.example.com',
{'uhost2.example.com': 'ehost.example.com'}

Now in 2.1.5, Archiver.py inverts this dictionary, but since both email
host entries are the same, the inverted dictionary has only the one
key 'ehost.example.com' and the corresponding value is either
'uhost1.example.com' or 'uhost2.example.com' and because dictionaries
are stored in hashed order, it is indeterminate which, but in your
case, the value is 'uhost1.example.com' rather than the desired
'uhost2.example.com'.

The way to address this in mm_cfg.py is as I said in my first reply.
Clear out the Defaults.py VIRTUAL_HOSTS dictionary in mm_cfg.py as in

DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'uhost2.example.com'
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'ehost.example.com'
VIRTUAL_HOSTS.clear()
add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)

Of course, the other way to address this, at least if you are
installing from source, is to supply the correct --with-mailhost= and
--with-urlhost= options to configure in the first place.


>The largest piece of this problem unresolved is the list of archives  
>is not complete.  The list includes only a few months at the end of  
>2005.  I do not seem to be able to get this list to show all archives.


Did you see my second reply in this thread at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050477.html>?

If not, please do. If so, please address that reply, specifically, are
the missing messages in archives/private/listname.mbox/listname.mbox?
(I suspect not or bin/arch would have put them in the archive.) Are
the missing messages queued in qfiles/shunt/? Have you run bin/unshunt?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 03:26:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:26:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] SANE
In-Reply-To: <p0620071bc0643aa69b09@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604131826410625ba0730ba@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 7:02 PM +0200 2006-04-13, Meta wrote:
>
>>  I need to install Sane to use scanner.
>
>	Sorry, what is SANE?

I am guessing that SANE is "Scanner Access Now Easy"
<http://www.sane-project.org/>, but this has nothing to do with
Mailman or the mailman-users at python.org list. Look at the above site
for links to their support resources.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 04:38:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:38:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Redirect all -bounce emails
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220604131247mc176055m46f0d78e7f9caaab@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604131938340203e8926f0d@msapiro>

Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
>
>I recently migrated mailman to a RH Linux server (previously it was a SPARC
>Solaris box).
>For re-directing having all bounces from any list be to the 'mailman' list
>posting address, I updated the Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py as below. I
>beleive that this was what I did on the Solaris box earlier. But, now on the
>RH Linux box, the -bounce emails are not getting redirected to the mailman
>list.
>
>Is something changed for RH Linux?

The patch seems good.

Can you post to the mailman list at all? Check your aliases to see how
mail to mailman at name.com is being handled. Do you have aliases for the
mailman list at all? Is mail to mailman at name.com being delivered to a
local mailbox?

I recent post to this list
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050332.html>
showed aliases from a cpanel installation where mail to mailman was
sent to /dev/null. I have no reason to think RedHat would do this, but
you never know.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 04:42:22 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 19:42:22 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A little help please
In-Reply-To: <20060413211753.D3DEB7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604131942220218e8926f10@msapiro>

Carl Zwanzig wrote:

>In a flurry of recycled electrons, rjulien at cox.net wrote:
>> Said Sr Manager decided that they did not like the name we had chosen for our domain, so they asked us to change it.  When we changed it, the mail does not work.  Sigh.
>
>> I can launch the web pages, add subtract, modify and view the list info.  It just does not communicate.  Clearly I am just missing somewhere in the systems where I need to change the domain name.
>
>> I probably am overthinking this one, and the answer is right in front of me - but I am fried and not thinking well.
>
>
>Are incoming messages delivered by the MTA to Mailman?
>Do you see Mainman handing message back to the MTA?
>Anything interesting in the log files, for both Mailman and the MTA?


Also, have you seen and followed
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.029.htp>?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From morc at onionleaf.com  Fri Apr 14 13:21:45 2006
From: morc at onionleaf.com (morc at onionleaf.com)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:21:45 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using HTTPS
Message-ID: <20060414132145.4xcgtqzw1pkossww@onionleaf.com>

  Hi Guys,

  I must be really lame not getting it to work, but I can't. What I want to do
is make all URLs https for added security. I modified the default URL pattern
to https://%s/... in both mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py, recompiled the Python
files, but it still gives me all URLs with http. Where do I have to change the
code or which parameter to make it https? I'm using Debian 3.1 if that matetrs
and the MailMan version is 2.1.5-8sarge2.

  Thanks in advance,

  Gabor 'Morc' Kormos.


From pilsl at goldfisch.at  Fri Apr 14 15:09:37 2006
From: pilsl at goldfisch.at (peter pilsl)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:09:37 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange attachment-behaviour when using headers
Message-ID: <443F9F11.9030407@goldfisch.at>


I've a list that adds headers to all mails.

Now several user using Outlook and Bat report strange behavior with 
mails with attachments: The received mail then only contains the header 
and the original mailbody is only accessible as text-attachment.

example:
user sends a mail to the list containing a message-body and a 
pdf-attachment.
Users with Outlook and Bat  then gets the mail and only the list-added 
header in the mail. To read the original mail they need to click on the 
attached text-file.

When I look at the mail I see that all parts of the mail are 
mime-encoded and it seems that my thunderbird is smart enough to put 
them together while other mailers are not.

Is there any solution/explanation for this?

I found that while the mailman-header is 7bit-encoded, the original 
mailbody is 8bit encoded and different charsets are used. Can this be a 
problem of different charsets that cannot be handled by great Outlook 
and cool Bat ?


example (first is the header, second the original mail)

----------------

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C65FC6.F3E285B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


erweiterte Liste
=======================



------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C65FC6.F3E285B0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hallo noch mal!

Los gehts :-)
Anbei schick ich euch ein Dokument, wo ich einige ?berlegungen zum Thema PR
zusammengeschrieben habe, u.a. die Definition der Zielgruppen aus meiner
Sicht mit den Erg?nzungen von Stefan und Max und die n?chsten Schritte.

------------------------


thnx
peter


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 16:16:48 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:16:48 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange attachment-behaviour when using headers
In-Reply-To: <443F9F11.9030407@goldfisch.at>
References: <443F9F11.9030407@goldfisch.at>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604140716k1e3ba1ffp5a93ba57f829bc63@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/06, peter pilsl <pilsl at goldfisch.at> wrote:
> When I look at the mail I see that all parts of the mail are
> mime-encoded and it seems that my thunderbird is smart enough to put
> them together while other mailers are not.
>
> Is there any solution/explanation for this?

The explanation is: all parts of the mail are mime-encoded, and it
seems that thunderbird is smart enough to put them together while
other mailers are not. See FAQ 4.39 (talks about footers, but applies
to headers as well.)


--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 16:18:52 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:18:52 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using HTTPS
In-Reply-To: <20060414132145.4xcgtqzw1pkossww@onionleaf.com>
References: <20060414132145.4xcgtqzw1pkossww@onionleaf.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604140718g6df2f8d0yde3d6a9da210dc7c@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/06, morc at onionleaf.com <morc at onionleaf.com> wrote:
>   Hi Guys,
>
>   I must be really lame not getting it to work, but I can't. What I want to do
> is make all URLs https for added security. I modified the default URL pattern
> to https://%s/... in both mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py, recompiled the Python
As a rule, you shouldn't be changing Defaults.py; mm_cfg.py is enough.
This isn't your problem, though.

> files, but it still gives me all URLs with http. Where do I have to change the
> code or which parameter to make it https? I'm using Debian 3.1 if that matetrs
> and the MailMan version is 2.1.5-8sarge2.
If I recall correctly, DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN is one of those values that
is just a default- I.e., it's 'copied' for a list when the list is
created, so changing the config value only changes it for *new* lists.
See FAQ 4.27.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 16:26:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 07:26:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problem using HTTPS
In-Reply-To: <20060414132145.4xcgtqzw1pkossww@onionleaf.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041407261400624ae04e6c@msapiro>

morc at onionleaf.com wrote:
>
>  I must be really lame not getting it to work, but I can't. What I want to do
>is make all URLs https for added security. I modified the default URL pattern
>to https://%s/... in both mm_cfg.py and Defaults.py, recompiled the Python
>files, but it still gives me all URLs with http. Where do I have to change the
>code or which parameter to make it https? I'm using Debian 3.1 if that matetrs
>and the MailMan version is 2.1.5-8sarge2.

The thing that actually needs to be changed is the web_page_url
attribute of the lists.

You need to change DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN in mm_cfg.py only. I assume the
other stuff you say you did is because this didn't appear to work, but
it wasn't decessary because it does work. The problem is, that only
affects new lists, not existing ones. You didn't do step 3 of
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.027.htp>
for existing lists.

Note that in addition to the

 $prefix/bin/withlist -l -r fix_url listname

command shown in the FAQ, you can also do

 $prefix/bin/withlist -l -a -r fix_url

to change all lists at once. I just tried to add this to the FAQ, but
there is an ongoing intermittent permissions problem that's preventing
me from doing this at the moment.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 17:26:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 08:26:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] strange attachment-behaviour when using headers
In-Reply-To: <443F9F11.9030407@goldfisch.at>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041408264502967a2aef75@msapiro>

peter pilsl wrote:
>
>When I look at the mail I see that all parts of the mail are
>mime-encoded and it seems that my thunderbird is smart enough to put
>them together while other mailers are not.
>
>Is there any solution/explanation for this?


As Patrick points out in another reply, this is covered in FAQ 4.39.


>I found that while the mailman-header is 7bit-encoded, the original
>mailbody is 8bit encoded and different charsets are used. Can this be a 
>problem of different charsets that cannot be handled by great Outlook and cool Bat ?


The different encodings and character sets are not responsible for the
differing behavior of the different MUAs, but they are the reason why
Mailman put the header in a separate MIME part in the first place.
What version of Mailman is this? The patch described at
<https://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=872068&group_id=103&atid=300103>
was implemented in 2.1.6 and it should help avoid this problem.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From rjm at uchicago.edu  Fri Apr 14 19:47:06 2006
From: rjm at uchicago.edu (Redmond Militante)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:47:06 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing subscriber email address
Message-ID: <20060414174706.GA22371@tangerine.uchicago.edu>


Is there a way to edit a malformed subscriber email address?  The admin for one of our lists added members through the web interface using a cut and paste method.  As a result, a couple of addresses are malformed, in that there are extraneous characters.  Is there a way to edit the email addresses without having to delete the member and have them rejoin the mailing list?

Thanks,
Redmond

-- 
Redmond Militante / NSIT / The University of Chicago
PGP Public Key: <http://home.uchicago.edu/~rjm/pubkey.asc>


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 20:19:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 11:19:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] editing subscriber email address
In-Reply-To: <20060414174706.GA22371@tangerine.uchicago.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041411193401877a2aeefd@msapiro>

Redmond Militante wrote:
>
>Is there a way to edit a malformed subscriber email address?  The admin for one of our lists added members through the web interface using a cut and paste method.  As a result, a couple of addresses are malformed, in that there are extraneous characters.  Is there a way to edit the email addresses without having to delete the member and have them rejoin the mailing list?

The list admin can delete the member and then resubscribe the member
from the admin mass subscribe interface, or the list admin can go to
the existing user's options page by clicking the email address in the
admin membership list and change the address via the options page, but
this requires the user to respond to a confirmation sent to the new
address.

If you wan't to actually change the address and not do the delete and
mass subscribe as above, and you want to avoid the user confirmation,
you would need to call the ApprovedChangeMemberAddress() method
directly using bin/withlist. E.g.,

bin/withlist -l listname
(response)
>>> m.ApprovedChangeMemberAddress('bad_address', 'good_address')
>>> m.Save()
>>>

('>>> ' is the Python prompt. The last prompt is answered with
control-D.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From day7pettersens at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 21:19:27 2006
From: day7pettersens at gmail.com (Craig Pettersen)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:19:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains and processes
Message-ID: <6e6f44850604141219i2406bb88gf722411c4f5f4be2@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,
I really like mailman's features but I have a couple questions about virtual
domains and mailman.  I read that to have unique list names accross domains
it's necessary to have separate installations for each domain.  We run email
for around 600 domains.  Not all have lists but even if we had only 100 we
would have 800 qrunner processes running.   What kind of resources will all
those processes use?  Is there any way around this problem?  Is there anyone
out there with experience with virtual domains that could point me in the
right direction?

Thanks!


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 14 21:25:03 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:25:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains and processes
In-Reply-To: <6e6f44850604141219i2406bb88gf722411c4f5f4be2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6e6f44850604141219i2406bb88gf722411c4f5f4be2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604141225u452284b5r8b38d6538d4b172c@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/14/06, Craig Pettersen <day7pettersens at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,
> I really like mailman's features but I have a couple questions about virtual
> domains and mailman.  I read that to have unique list names accross domains
> it's necessary to have separate installations for each domain.  We run email
I'm not sure if this was just a mistype, or a misunderstanding.
You can run all virtual domains off one mailman installation as long
as the <listname> portion of <listname>@<domain> is unique across all
lists. E.g., you couldn't have admin at foo.com and admin at bar.com under
the same installation.

If administratively feasible, a good way to accomplish this would be
to assign all of your domains some unique tag, so that their lists are
FOO-admin at foo.com, etc.

That said, you should be able to alias admin at foo.com to FOO-admin and
admin at bar.com to BAR-admin, but you'd have to take special care not to
confuse the users. This was discussed earlier, I believe, but I don't
recall the final conclusion.

I'm afraid I can't answer your actual question, but perhaps this will
obviate the need for it to be answered?

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 14 21:53:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 12:53:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] virtual domains and processes
In-Reply-To: <6e6f44850604141219i2406bb88gf722411c4f5f4be2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604141253280593d7cb4d4d@msapiro>

Craig Pettersen wrote:

>I really like mailman's features but I have a couple questions about virtual
>domains and mailman.  I read that to have unique list names accross domains
>it's necessary to have separate installations for each domain.


Actually, non-unique list names. Patrick's reply addresses this quite
well.

There are work-arounds including running multiple Mailman instances,
and patching Mailman. The FAQ at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.047.htp>
summarizes most of what we know about this.


>We run email
>for around 600 domains.  Not all have lists but even if we had only 100 we
>would have 800 qrunner processes running.   What kind of resources will all
>those processes use?


I expect that most of them will be doing nothing most of the time, but
they do wake up at intervals of QRUNNER_SLEEP_TIME (default = 1
second) to check their queues. You can set this in mm_cfg.py to any
value you want. 1 minute might be more appropriate if you have 800
runners. When they are asleep, they use backing storage to hold their
memory image, and presumably there won't be enough real memory for
them all to be resident at once so there will be disk i/o when a
runner wakes up, pieces get read into RAM, and then modified pieces
get written out again to make room for others.

I don't have a good feel for what kind of system resources are required
to make this all work well. Perhaps others do.


>Is there any way around this problem?


See the FAQ

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mmminne2 at yahoo.com  Fri Apr 14 23:01:18 2006
From: mmminne2 at yahoo.com (Pork Chop Tze)
Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:01:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] test
Message-ID: <20060414210118.6810.qmail@web31102.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

test

"Everything can be taken from a man but ...the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way."--Frankl

"Men are disturbed not by things, but by the view which they take of them."--Epictetus

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp  Sat Apr 15 07:41:07 2006
From: tkikuchi at is.kochi-u.ac.jp (Tokio Kikuchi)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:41:07 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] RELEASED: Mailman 2.1.8
Message-ID: <44408773.6010206@is.kochi-u.ac.jp>

On behalf of the development team, I'm pleased to announce the release
of GNU Mailman 2.1.8.  In this release, we have fixed a cross-site
scripting security bug in the previous release (CVE-2006-1712),
integrated a new version of email library (email-2.5.7), and added
bounce processing supports for number of sites and MUAs.  It is highly
recommended that all sites using 2.1.7 and before should update to this
release.

Mailman is free software for managing email mailing lists and e-newsletters.

For more information, see:

     http://mailman.sourceforge.net/

For links to download the Mailman 2.1.8 source tarball, see:

     http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=103

(Note that uploading to the mirror sites may be delayed.)

-- 
Tokio Kikuchi



From johannes.kepler at sapo.pt  Sat Apr 15 10:26:09 2006
From: johannes.kepler at sapo.pt (johannes.kepler at sapo.pt)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 09:26:09 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Little doubt
Message-ID: <1145089569.uflkhghb7z4@w7.mail.sapo.pt>

> Hi,
>
> I'm currently using Mailman to make several mailing lists - it's a very
> good program, my congratulations. I only have two problems:
>
> 1) I want that all the bounce mail, the one who needs approval, etc. be
> automatically discarded and deleted; I've already tryed in the bounce
> admin. options choose the "don't be notified", put the days, equal to
> zero, etc., but I still receive mail to be authorized. How can I stop
> receiving this?
>
> 2) When I edit the files to be showed to the user, the text one appears
> with funny characters when I use letters like ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, etc - they
> are used in portuguese. How can I prevent this of happening?
>
> Please answer as soon as possible.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Rui Miguel Fernandes
> Porto - Portugal

___________________________________________________________________

O SAPO j? est? livre de v?rus com a Panda Software, fique voc? tamb?m!
Clique em: http://antivirus.sapo.pt



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 15 17:20:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 08:20:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Little doubt
In-Reply-To: <1145089569.uflkhghb7z4@w7.mail.sapo.pt>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041508201208591310b807@msapiro>

johannes.kepler at sapo.pt wrote:
>>
>> 1) I want that all the bounce mail, the one who needs approval, etc. be
>> automatically discarded and deleted; I've already tryed in the bounce
>> admin. options choose the "don't be notified", put the days, equal to
>> zero, etc., but I still receive mail to be authorized. How can I stop
>> receiving this?


Are you confusing automated bounce processing and held messages? I'm
not sure what you want to do with bounce processing, but you can turn
off the admin notices and/or turn off bounce processing completely,
but this only affects bounces returned to (or spam sent to) the
listname-bounces address.

You cannot automatically discard all otherwise held messages.

You can set Privacy options...->Sender
filters->generic_nonmember_action to discard to automatically discard
posts from non-members, and if you have     Privacy options...->Spam
filters->header_filter_rules, you can set their action to discard. You
can set Privacy options...->Sender filters->member_moderation_action
to discard to automatically discard posts from moderated members.

However, there are other holds such as those based on max_message_size,
Privacy options...->Recipient filters, etc. for which you can't
specify a Discard action.

What you can do in Mailman 2.1.6 and later is set General
Options->max_days_to_hold to 1 which will automatically discard held
messages after one day. If this is the setting you refer to when you
say "put the days, equal to zero", zero means don't automatically
discard. If you want auto discard, you have to set max_days_to_hold to
one or greater.


>> 2) When I edit the files to be showed to the user, the text one appears
>> with funny characters when I use letters like ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, etc - they
>> are used in portuguese. How can I prevent this of happening?


Which files are you editing? How are you editing them? Where are you
placing edited versions? Are you perhaps creating edited templates
with, e.g., utf-8 encoding (pt templates need to be iso-8859-1
encoded)?

Have you seen
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Sat Apr 15 20:34:07 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 14:34:07 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] New Mailman wiki, Subversion (and other stuff)
Message-ID: <1145126047.3167.13.camel@resist.wooz.org>

For a while now, I've been trying to implement several project
management improvements for Mailman, so that future development can be
opened up to more people.  As Tokio's and Mark's work has shown, there
are very talented programmers out there that can contribute great stuff
to Mailman if given a chance.  Folks like Brad, JC, and Terri have also
contributed greatly in ways other than with code, and I'd like to make
it easier for others like them to help out.

With 2.1 in maintenance mode, planning for 2.2 gearing up, and my desire
to once again jump start 3.0 work, we need all the help we can get.

While I'm still working on some things, there have been some good
developments that I wanted to let you know about.  First, Atlassian has
offered free licenses and hosting for their excellent products Jira
(issue tracker) and Confluence (wiki).  I've used both for several years
now and I think they are top-notch applications; Jira is definitely one
of the best issue trackers I've used.

The wiki is now live, although not a lot of content has been moved
there.  Please see <http://wiki.list.org>.  You can browse the wiki
anonymously, but you must sign up to make any additions or changes.  I
would eventually like to move things like the Mailman FAQ, list of
Mailman users, online documentation (where it doesn't overlap with the
latex docs), and all community contributed content from the main web
site to the wiki.  If you've been looking for a way to contribute to
Mailman that doesn't involve coding, here's your chance!

While Jira is live, there's nothing yet there.  I've done only the
minimal configuration for the issue tracker, but have not yet even set
up any projects.  Still, you can go to <http://bugs.list.org> to sign up
or get a feel for the basics.  Right now, I'm working on a conversion
script that will take the SourceForge tracker data and massage it into a
form that Jira can import.  My plan is to move all issue tracking to
Jira from SF's trackers.

One option to getting there faster is to just start Jira from scratch --
i.e. not import the SF issues.  We could say that all 2.2 and 3.0 bugs
and patches must go to Jira, but that 2.1 bugs would stay on SF.  Then,
when 2.1 is retired, we'd retire the SF tracker (that may not be for a
long time though, given how pervasive 2.1 is).  I'm interested in
getting opinions about whether we should migrate all issues to Jira now,
split the issues as described above, or take some other approach.

Now that Mailman 2.1.8 is out, I've gone ahead and converted the SF CVS
repository to Subversion.  You can checkout the entire tree via
<https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mailman> but understand that that
will checkout /everything/ (trunk, tags, branches, etc).  If you just
want Mailman 2.1, you can check out
<https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint>, or if you just want the trunk (2.2) you can check out <https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/mailman/trunk>.  You should no longer be able to check anything into the CVS repository.  Not everyone who had write permission to CVS has been given Subversion write access.  If you still need write access to Subversion and don't have it, please let me know.

Now that the conversion is complete, I plan on doing some repo house
cleaning, such as moving the website stuff out of the main directory.
After that, we can decide to leave the Subversion repository on
SourceForge, or move it to Atlassian's hosting.  The latter gives us the
ability to control write permissions per directory and a hook to Fisheye
for repo browsing through the web.  Even if we want to move, we don't
need to do that right away, as an svn dump/restore should do the trick.

Now that these changes have been made, I think it's time to start
planning for Mailman 2.2.  To that end, I would like most development
artifacts to be recorded in the wiki, although discussion should still
happen on mailman-developers (there's a 'Development' space and a link
for 2.2 under that).  I also plan on getting our data imported into
Rosetta so we can coordinate i18n there; it's mostly my fault I've
dropped the ball on this one.

Longer term, as we begin to restart Mailman 3 development, all those
decisions will go in the wiki too.  I have some other thoughts about
Mailman 3 that I'd like to get feedback on, but as this message is
getting fairly long anyway, I'll defer that for the time being.

So in summary, please check out the wiki.  Let me know what you think
about importing the SF issues into Jira.  And check out the Subversion
repository.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sun Apr 16 04:38:38 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:38:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-i18n] New Mailman wiki,
	Subversion (and other stuff)
In-Reply-To: <0FFCABBF-3E7F-47E5-9D26-E38ED92C4B69@riverland.net.au>
References: <1145126047.3167.13.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<0FFCABBF-3E7F-47E5-9D26-E38ED92C4B69@riverland.net.au>
Message-ID: <1145155118.21740.22.camel@geddy.wooz.org>

On Sun, 2006-04-16 at 11:17 +0930, Clytie Siddall wrote:
> Barry, thanks for such an encouraging look into the near future. :)

I'm trying to get re-energized! :)

> OK, I've already submitted an i18n howto to the SF tracker, which I  
> don't think Tokoi has had time to implement. I would be happy to do a  
> full Mailman i18n howto in the wiki. I think we need an  
> "Internationalization" space: can I create that, or does an admin  
> have to do that? (We should use the full word because we are likely  
> to attract first-time translators who don't know the jargon yet: we  
> have done so recently.)

Only wiki admins can create spaces.  I thought about creating an
Internationalization space but because spaces are fairly distinct, I
opted instead to create a subpage under the Development space.  Let's
see if that works before adding another space.  (And BTW, although I
haven't read your HOWTO, I think that's /exactly/ the kind of thing I'd
like to see in the wiki!  So go for it. :)

> I'm really pleased that we have a central information space like  
> this, which is relatively easily-accessed. It should make updating  
> and contribution in general, much easier.

Exactly!

> I think you'd end up spending a lot of time bridging between  
> trackers, trying to keep track of items that affect more than one  
> version. I'd recommend getting the lot across, if possible.

Yep.

> >
> > Now that Mailman 2.1.8 is out, I've gone ahead and converted the SF  
> > CVS
> > repository to Subversion.
> 
> Yay! :)

Indeed!  Subversion is /so/ much better than CVS. :)
> 
> I might even get my translation (completed some time ago)  
> implemented. ;)

Yes, let's try to make that happen now.
-Barry

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From dcarvalho at xsmail.com  Sun Apr 16 19:54:48 2006
From: dcarvalho at xsmail.com (Daniel Carvalho)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:54:48 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006041014201202968698e8d4@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006041014201202968698e8d4@msapiro>
Message-ID: <444284E8.5020402@xsmail.com>

Mark Sapiro wrote:


>>Mark Sapiro wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>  
>
>>>>Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>>>>    
>>>>
>>    
>>
>>>>>>the scripts didn't work - they always return empty lists... Maybe it's a
>>>>>>problem with the python instalation iin my computer.
>>>>>>      
>>>>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I have updated the scripts at
>><http://veenet.value.net/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py> and
>><http://fog.ccsf.edu/~msapiro/mailman-subscribers.py>. They now issue
>>meaningful errors for invalid hostname, listname or password (in most
>>cases - during testing, I intentionally garbled a domain name and got
>>the "non-existent list" message instead of the "error accessing URL"
>>message. Turns out that the garbled domain was a valid domain that has
>>a Mailman installation.
>>
>  
>

i was not given the list name in the correct format ( with "_" and the
domain). Now it is working!

thanks

daniel

P.S: do you have more scrips??  :) 





From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 17 01:08:13 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:08:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] get members list
In-Reply-To: <444284E8.5020402@xsmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604161608130781286eb13a@msapiro>

Daniel Carvalho wrote:
>
>P.S: do you have more scrips??  :) 


Jim Tittsler has a couple at
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/>. Did you have something
specific in mind?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From n24005 at yahoo.com  Mon Apr 17 13:14:32 2006
From: n24005 at yahoo.com (Jeff Friedrichs)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 04:14:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear - v2.1.6
Message-ID: <20060417111432.4931.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi,

My ISP has 2.1.6 installed (not sure when that version
was installed).   I have about 6 lists hosted on 2
different domains with this ISP.   About 10 days ago
the messages simply stopped being processed.   They do
not get bounced (ie no notification to me as the
moderator), they do not get returned, they do not get
archived, and they do not get forwarded to the
recipients.

One user did get the attached reply at about the time
that the server stopped working.

The ISP has stated:

	"I have restarted exim and pop service on server and
all the services is working fine on server. Please
check the same and let us know if you have any
problem." 

But it is still not working.  I have even created new
lists on my 2 domains and used both a "work" email
account and a Yahoo account, but still nothing gets
through.   If I email to a bogus address at my domain,
it is bounced, so the domain knows about the list
address, but then is not processing the messages..

Any ideas I can pass along to the ISP?

Thanks!
Jeff


(I have edited the email addresses...)

------ Forwarded Message
From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:46 -0400 (EDT)
To: <user at yy.net>
Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details

The original message was received at Sat, 8 Apr 2006
11:55:40 -0400 (EDT) from v20-5-p19.yy.net
[208.199.x.y]

   ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal
errors ----- <list-name at my-domain.org>
    (reason: 550-Callback setup failed while verifying
<user at yy.net>)

   ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while
talking to my-domain.org.:
>>> DATA
<<< 550-Callback setup failed while verifying
<xxx at yy.net>
<<< 550-Called:   204.255.x.y
<<< 550-Sent:     MAIL FROM:<>
<<< 550-Response: 553 5.3.0 REJECT # IP 67.19.206.84
rejected by BRS 
<<< 550-The initial connection, or a HELO or MAIL
FROM:<> command was 
<<< 550-rejected. Refusing MAIL FROM:<> does not help
fight spam, disregards 
<<< 550-RFC requirements, and stops you from receiving
standard bounce 
<<< 550-messages. This host does not accept mail from
domains whose servers 
<<< 550-refuse bounces.
<<< 550 Sender verify failed
<<< 550 5.1.1 <list-name at my-domain.org>... User
unknown 
<<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
Reporting-MTA: dns; host.yy.net
Received-From-MTA: DNS; v20-5-p19.yy.net
Arrival-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:40 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: RFC822; list-name at my-domain.org
Action: failed
Status: 5.1.1
Remote-MTA: DNS; my-domain.org
Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550-Callback setup failed while
verifying <user at yy.net>
Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:46 -0400
(EDT)

------ End of Forwarded Message


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 17:51:57 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 10:51:57 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear - v2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <20060417111432.4931.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com>
References: <20060417111432.4931.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604170851s2241648dq199f8a4786f42178@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/06, Jeff Friedrichs <n24005 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> ------ Forwarded Message
> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON>
> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:46 -0400 (EDT)
> To: <user at yy.net>
> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
>
> The original message was received at Sat, 8 Apr 2006
> 11:55:40 -0400 (EDT) from v20-5-p19.yy.net
> [208.199.x.y]
>
>    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal
> errors ----- <list-name at my-domain.org>
>     (reason: 550-Callback setup failed while verifying
> <user at yy.net>)
>
>    ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while
> talking to my-domain.org.:
> >>> DATA
> <<< 550-Callback setup failed while verifying
> <xxx at yy.net>
> <<< 550-Called:   204.255.x.y
> <<< 550-Sent:     MAIL FROM:<>
> <<< 550-Response: 553 5.3.0 REJECT # IP 67.19.206.84
> rejected by BRS
> <<< 550-The initial connection, or a HELO or MAIL
> FROM:<> command was
> <<< 550-rejected. Refusing MAIL FROM:<> does not help
> fight spam, disregards
> <<< 550-RFC requirements, and stops you from receiving
> standard bounce
> <<< 550-messages. This host does not accept mail from
> domains whose servers
> <<< 550-refuse bounces.
> <<< 550 Sender verify failed
> <<< 550 5.1.1 <list-name at my-domain.org>... User
> unknown
> <<< 503 valid RCPT command must precede DATA
> Reporting-MTA: dns; host.yy.net
> Received-From-MTA: DNS; v20-5-p19.yy.net
> Arrival-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:40 -0400 (EDT)
>
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; list-name at my-domain.org
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.1.1
> Remote-MTA: DNS; my-domain.org
> Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550-Callback setup failed while
> verifying <user at yy.net>
> Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 11:55:46 -0400
> (EDT)
>
> ------ End of Forwarded Message

This is the result of your attempt to send a message to the list, I guess?
It looks like your hosting company's mail server is rejecting messages
whose SMTP servers don't accept mail. Which is to say, yy.net won't
accept mail from my-domain.org, so my-domain.org refuses to accept
mail from yy.net.

This doesn't seem to be a mailman issue, but, rather, a MTA configuration issue.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 17 17:29:28 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:29:28 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages disappear - v2.1.6
In-Reply-To: <20060417111432.4931.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060417082928004650781e8a@msapiro>

Jeff Friedrichs wrote:
>
>The ISP has stated:
>
>	"I have restarted exim and pop service on server and
>all the services is working fine on server. Please
>check the same and let us know if you have any
>problem." 

It looks like the ISP had a problem and hasn't restarted mailman.

This could be

path/to/mailman/bin/mailmanctl start

or starting some service depending on the setup there.

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>
for more ideas. (The above is Item 1 in that FAQ.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From tony at tonybibbs.com  Mon Apr 17 18:27:18 2006
From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:27:18 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of the
	emails
Message-ID: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>

I've just rebuilt a server with mailman 2.1.8.  I've got all my old 
lists copied over an everything is mostly working except that mailman 
isn't sending some of the messages.

Specifically, it IS sending messages regarding posts that need admin 
moderation.  It isn't sending messages sent to the lists.  Here is what 
I get in my maillog.  Any ideas on how to troubleshoot this further?

--Tony

Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: ctable_locate: leave 
existing entry key geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: maps_find: 
recipient_canonical_maps: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net: not found
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: mail_addr_find: 
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net -> (not found)
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: maps_find: 
canonical_maps: geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net: not found
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: mail_addr_find: 
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net -> (not found)
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: maps_find: 
virtual_alias_maps: hash:/var/mailman/data/virtual-mailman(0,100): 
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net = geeklog-devel
Apr 17 11:26:16 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtpd[1876]: mail_addr_find: 
geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net -> geeklog-devel
Apr 17 11:26:19 iowaoutdoors amavis[1581]: (01581-02) Passed CLEAN, 
LOCAL [127.0.0.1] [127.0.0.1] <tony at tonybibbs.com> -> 
<geeklog-devel at iowaoutdoors.org>, Message-ID: 
<4443C188.3060600 at tonybibbs.com>, mail_id: 03Nq8hVPFrK3, Hits: -1.387, 
3456 ms
Apr 17 11:26:19 iowaoutdoors postfix/smtp[1909]: 2737E5F71: 
to=<geeklog-devel at iowaoutdoors.org>, 
orig_to=<geeklog-devel at lists.geeklog.net>, relay=127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1], 
delay=3, status=sent (250 2.6.0 Ok, id=01581-02, from 
MTA([127.0.0.1]:10025): 250 Ok: queued as 7C8002357B)
Apr 17 11:26:20 iowaoutdoors postfix/local[1914]: 7C8002357B: 
to=<geeklog-devel at iowaoutdoors.org>, relay=local, delay=1, status=sent 
(delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post geeklog-devel)


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 19:00:02 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:00:02 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunted Messages: Uncaught runner exception: 'str'
	object has no attribute 'get_sender'
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604171000p4c85adf3k78c667e02957335d@mail.gmail.com>

Traceback is as follows:

Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) SHUNTING:
1143744566.924134+af04699cdb8ee11fa521f987815fb056a487203c
Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object
has no attribute 'get_sender'
Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 159, in _onefile
    sender = msg.get_sender()
AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'

Using Mailman 2.1.7-1 from Debian Testing. I can't upgrade to the
2.1.7-2 from Testing until I get these unshunted.

If I move them aside, and upgrade, and then attempt to unshunt, will
it cause problems?

Is there any way I can turn the shunted message into something that
can be passed to bin/inject?

There have been a couple posts of this same error, but I haven't seen
any resolution (or, in fact, reply..)

--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 19:04:13 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:04:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of
	the emails
In-Reply-To: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>
References: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/06, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:

> snip
> (delivered to command: /usr/local/mailman/mail/mailman post geeklog-devel)

This looks okay. Is that command path correct? Your MTA is properly
dispatching the message, it seems.

Can you check the mailman logs to see if anything is amiss?
The questions to answer are:

Is delivery being attempted?
If so, is delivery failing during the SMTP phase, or somewhere inside the MTA?
If not, why not?

--
- Patrick Bogen


From tony at tonybibbs.com  Mon Apr 17 19:15:30 2006
From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:15:30 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of
 the emails
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>
	<6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4443CD32.1010805@tonybibbs.com>



Patrick Bogen wrote:
> This looks okay. Is that command path correct? 
Yes, that path is fine

> Can you check the mailman logs to see if anything is amiss?
Okay, newbie question, but I don't see an individual mailman log file. 
Where does mailman log by default?  Apparently it isn't maillog nor 
messages AFAICT.

--Tony


From tony at tonybibbs.com  Mon Apr 17 19:19:58 2006
From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:19:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of
 the emails
In-Reply-To: <4443CD32.1010805@tonybibbs.com>
References: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>	<6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4443CD32.1010805@tonybibbs.com>
Message-ID: <4443CE3E.2060507@tonybibbs.com>

Never mind, figured out the log question.  So this is the error I'm getting:

Apr 17 12:15:03 2006 (1502) SHUNTING: 
1145294101.5488031+e9c18ef880510ac8186a9ea4e5f5dff47cb0a8ba
Apr 17 12:18:27 2006 (1502) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/geeklog-devel/digest.mbox'
Apr 17 12:18:27 2006 (1502) Traceback (most recent call last):
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, 
in _dispose
     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, 
in _dopipeline
     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 77, in 
process
     mboxfp = open(mboxfile, 'a+')
IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
'/usr/local/mailman/lists/geeklog-devel/digest.mbox'

Apr 17 12:18:28 2006 (1502) SHUNTING: 
1145294306.9355559+1b7de0b89ad3559af8913ac854c7c5440c8e8339

Related to that, here is the permissions on digest.mbox:

-rw-r-----  1 root    mailman 20561 Apr 14 13:43 digest.mbox

What should it be?  mailman:mailman?  Shouldn't check_perms find this?

--Tony

Tony Bibbs wrote:
> 
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>> This looks okay. Is that command path correct? 
> Yes, that path is fine
> 
>> Can you check the mailman logs to see if anything is amiss?
> Okay, newbie question, but I don't see an individual mailman log file. 
> Where does mailman log by default?  Apparently it isn't maillog nor 
> messages AFAICT.
> 
> --Tony
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tony%40tonybibbs.com
> 
> Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From tony at tonybibbs.com  Mon Apr 17 19:32:23 2006
From: tony at tonybibbs.com (Tony Bibbs)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:32:23 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of
 the emails
In-Reply-To: <4443CE3E.2060507@tonybibbs.com>
References: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>	<6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4443CD32.1010805@tonybibbs.com> <4443CE3E.2060507@tonybibbs.com>
Message-ID: <4443D127.7070505@tonybibbs.com>

Ok, after changing permissions it all seems to be working.  Thanks for 
letting me think out loud (and sorry to those who are undoubtedly 
annoyed by it).

--Tony

Tony Bibbs wrote:
> Never mind, figured out the log question.  So this is the error I'm 
> getting:
> 
> Apr 17 12:15:03 2006 (1502) SHUNTING: 
> 1145294101.5488031+e9c18ef880510ac8186a9ea4e5f5dff47cb0a8ba
> Apr 17 12:18:27 2006 (1502) Uncaught runner exception: [Errno 13] 
> Permission denied: '/usr/local/mailman/lists/geeklog-devel/digest.mbox'
> Apr 17 12:18:27 2006 (1502) Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>     self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
>     keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 130, 
> in _dispose
>     more = self._dopipeline(mlist, msg, msgdata, pipeline)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Queue/IncomingRunner.py", line 153, 
> in _dopipeline
>     sys.modules[modname].process(mlist, msg, msgdata)
>   File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/Handlers/ToDigest.py", line 77, in 
> process
>     mboxfp = open(mboxfile, 'a+')
> IOError: [Errno 13] Permission denied: 
> '/usr/local/mailman/lists/geeklog-devel/digest.mbox'
> 
> Apr 17 12:18:28 2006 (1502) SHUNTING: 
> 1145294306.9355559+1b7de0b89ad3559af8913ac854c7c5440c8e8339
> 
> Related to that, here is the permissions on digest.mbox:
> 
> -rw-r-----  1 root    mailman 20561 Apr 14 13:43 digest.mbox
> 
> What should it be?  mailman:mailman?  Shouldn't check_perms find this?
> 
> --Tony
> 
> Tony Bibbs wrote:
>>
>> Patrick Bogen wrote:
>>> This looks okay. Is that command path correct? 
>> Yes, that path is fine
>>
>>> Can you check the mailman logs to see if anything is amiss?
>> Okay, newbie question, but I don't see an individual mailman log file. 
>> Where does mailman log by default?  Apparently it isn't maillog nor 
>> messages AFAICT.
>>
>> --Tony
>> ------------------------------------------------------
>> Mailman-Users mailing list
>> Mailman-Users at python.org
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>> Searchable Archives: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>> Unsubscribe: 
>> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tony%40tonybibbs.com
>>
>> Security Policy: 
>> http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 17 19:58:31 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:58:31 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailman configured and only sending out some of
	the emails
In-Reply-To: <4443D127.7070505@tonybibbs.com>
References: <4443C1E6.6060307@tonybibbs.com>
	<6fbe3da00604171004y75338277m713ecf8fd338e794@mail.gmail.com>
	<4443CD32.1010805@tonybibbs.com> <4443CE3E.2060507@tonybibbs.com>
	<4443D127.7070505@tonybibbs.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604171058k7a32213cm29c308ebf04cc398@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/06, Tony Bibbs <tony at tonybibbs.com> wrote:
> Ok, after changing permissions it all seems to be working.  Thanks for
> letting me think out loud (and sorry to those who are undoubtedly
> annoyed by it).
>
FYI, there should be a bin/check_perms script that should check/fix
these issues.
Also, if you run bin/unshunt, it will re-try all of the emails that
were "lost." You might want to check them (the .pck files are
'binary,' but the mail is basically plaintext inside it, so using less
on them should be alright) and see if there are any you can just
remove (i.e., your test messages.)

--
- Patrick Bogen


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 17 20:36:39 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:36:39 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunted Messages: Uncaught runner exception:
	'str'object has no attribute 'get_sender'
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604171000p4c85adf3k78c667e02957335d@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041711363908436e654c12@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>Traceback is as follows:
>
>Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) SHUNTING:
>1143744566.924134+af04699cdb8ee11fa521f987815fb056a487203c
>Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) Uncaught runner exception: 'str' object
>has no attribute 'get_sender'
>Apr 17 11:37:11 2006 (11200) Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
>    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
>  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 159, in _onefile
>    sender = msg.get_sender()
>AttributeError: 'str' object has no attribute 'get_sender'


The real question here is why is switchboard returning an unparsed
message instead of a message object.


>Using Mailman 2.1.7-1 from Debian Testing. I can't upgrade to the
>2.1.7-2 from Testing until I get these unshunted.
>
>If I move them aside, and upgrade, and then attempt to unshunt, will
>it cause problems?


Probably, because the queue entries may be defective. I.e. it appears
that the message object in the .pck file is an unparsed string but
'_parsemsg' is False in the message metadata.


>Is there any way I can turn the shunted message into something that
>can be passed to bin/inject?


bin/show_qfiles should be the way, but it was broken until 2.1.8 and
may not work anyway because of the apparent problem.

bin/dumpdb should both produce a text message and show the metadata so
you can see if my theory is correct.


>There have been a couple posts of this same error, but I haven't seen
>any resolution (or, in fact, reply..)


Maybe you can gather enough information to find the cause.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Apr 17 20:20:46 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:20:46 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove all members from specific domain
Message-ID: <B08DD095-878E-4EF7-BF05-7665E619FCD9@state.or.us>

I am wondering if there is something built in to Mailman that would allow me to remove all members from the Mailman site that are from a specific domain? Using rmlist allows me to remove specific addresses, but I have about 50 addresses across many lists. Does rmlist allow wild cards?



Christopher Adams





From chris.a.adams at state.or.us  Mon Apr 17 21:06:26 2006
From: chris.a.adams at state.or.us (Christopher Adams)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:06:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove all members from specific domain
Message-ID: <F2879518-8A4B-411E-BF11-9AF4E074123E@state.or.us>

I meant to say:

Does remove_members allow wild cards?

I am thinking now that I probably need to script this. 



> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+chris.a.adams=state.or.us at python.org
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+chris.a.adams=state.or.us at python.org] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Adams
> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2006 11:21 AM
> To: mailman-users at python.org
> Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove all members from specific domain
> 
> I am wondering if there is something built in to Mailman that would allow
> me to remove all members from the Mailman site that are from a specific
> domain? Using rmlist allows me to remove specific addresses, but I have
> about 50 addresses across many lists. Does rmlist allow wild cards?
> 
> 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 18 01:30:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 16:30:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] remove all members from specific domain
In-Reply-To: <F2879518-8A4B-411E-BF11-9AF4E074123E@state.or.us>
Message-ID: <PC174020060417163048000033dd2070@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:

>Does remove_members allow wild cards?


No


>I am thinking now that I probably need to script this. 

#! bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do bin/list_members $list | grep @example\.com$ |\
 bin/remove_members --fromall --file=-
done

where example.com is the member domain to remove. The --fromall isn't
required and doesn't change the final result, but it shortens the
later lists from list_members.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 18 04:11:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:11:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Little doubt
In-Reply-To: <1145280908.8g3gq9cmcng@w5.mail.sapo.pt>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604171911320062a0a4ee7e@msapiro>

johannes.kepler at sapo.pt wrote:
>
>The page I edit and gives problems is the "Welcome email text file " - a text
>file. As far as the html files, there's no problem.
>
>Citando Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
>
>> johannes.kepler at sapo.pt wrote:
>>
>> >> 2) When I edit the files to be showed to the user, the text one appears
>> >> with funny characters when I use letters like ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, etc -
>> they
>> >> are used in portuguese. How can I prevent this of happening?
>>
>>
>> Which files are you editing? How are you editing them? Where are you
>> placing edited versions? Are you perhaps creating edited templates
>> with, e.g., utf-8 encoding (pt templates need to be iso-8859-1
>> encoded)?


Did this problem occur before you edited the Welcome message?

I am only guessing here, but I think perhaps the web server is
overriding the character set of the web pages as specified by Mailman,
so that when you edit the Welcome message via the web, the high order
characters get encoded in some character set other than iso-8859-1
(maybe utf-8). Then when the template is used in an email sent with
character set iso-8859-1 (Mailman's character set for Portugese),
those characters are garbled.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Tue Apr 18 15:25:38 2006
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:25:38 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Little doubt
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604171911320062a0a4ee7e@msapiro>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAAPjTr/Z+YXRAhTKtPvxizFIBAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Please help I am sending emails to my mail list, the list is not receiving
the email. I have queried with the Web Hosting Company, they advised me that
they have reset the server; if this does not work then I should consider
using another mailing list. Please can someone help? I have tried a test
email, by sending it to the list and cc my own email address; it is reaching
my private email address, but not the list. I am checking by logging and see
if the archive list has changed at all. 

Please help.

Kind Regards
 

Mark



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Apr 18 17:38:01 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:38:01 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Shunted Messages: Uncaught runner exception:
	'str'object has no attribute 'get_sender'
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006041711363908436e654c12@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00604171000p4c85adf3k78c667e02957335d@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006041711363908436e654c12@msapiro>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604180838m4e063713jb6b9cfc73cde0a8f@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/17/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Probably, because the queue entries may be defective. I.e. it appears
> that the message object in the .pck file is an unparsed string but
> '_parsemsg' is False in the message metadata.

Indeed, your supposition seems to be correct:

<----- start object 2 ----->
{   '_parsemsg': False,
    'received_time': 1143744566.9515591,
    'version': 3,
    'whichq': '/var/lib/mailman/qfiles/in'}
[----- end pickle file -----]

And the data in object 1 is the plain text of the message.

Pulling the message out and passing it to inject seems to have
resulted in a successful post. I did go ahead and upgrade to 2.1.7-2,
so either whatever caused the problem before was fixed, or it's some
sort of transient error that I'm not going to be able to reproduce.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From gary.chris at comcast.net  Tue Apr 18 18:33:24 2006
From: gary.chris at comcast.net (Gary Hall)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:33:24 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber metrics question
Message-ID: <444514D4.7060103@comcast.net>

Hi gang,

My question is how to "view" how many subscribers we have?

I looked at:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.006.htp

in the FAQ section but I am not sure that is what I want.

Any suggestions?

Thanks.

Warm regards,

Gary


From mailman at theabysss.com  Tue Apr 18 19:11:58 2006
From: mailman at theabysss.com (Stephen)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:11:58 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect
Message-ID: <002401c6630b$389644c0$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>

We are currently having issues, with we suspect SMTPdirect, which is currently set to "localhost". The following are some error messages we recieve;

Apr 18 09:00:04 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused')
delivery to hiddenaddress at somedomain failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')


We are seeing hours to multiple days in delay of sending, what appears to be happening is it tries to send to smtpdirect for a period of time then finally gives up and uses /usr/lib/sendmail, now we think we tracked it down. But we would like to be able to have more verbose logging, to see what smtpdirect is trying to connect too. Is this possible, minding that we have perl programmers and what not but no one that is a python wizard.

-s


From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Tue Apr 18 19:37:37 2006
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:37:37 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect
In-Reply-To: <002401c6630b$389644c0$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAAJ/g2p5Fzf1Ip7wgAKDse4UBAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Hi,

Please excuse me, but can you put that into English, for us no techies.

Mark


Mark A. Lombardo
Email mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk
www.olney-scout-group.org.uk


-----Original Message-----
From:
mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+mark.a.lombardo=olney-scout-group.org.uk at pytho
n.org] On Behalf Of Stephen
Sent: 18 April 2006 18:12
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect

We are currently having issues, with we suspect SMTPdirect, which is
currently set to "localhost". The following are some error messages we
recieve;

Apr 18 09:00:04 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection
refused')
delivery to hiddenaddress at somedomain failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection
refused')


We are seeing hours to multiple days in delay of sending, what appears to be
happening is it tries to send to smtpdirect for a period of time then
finally gives up and uses /usr/lib/sendmail, now we think we tracked it
down. But we would like to be able to have more verbose logging, to see what
smtpdirect is trying to connect too. Is this possible, minding that we have
perl programmers and what not but no one that is a python wizard.

-s
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From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Tue Apr 18 14:44:28 2006
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:44:28 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAAIHcvFeBJy5BuIBgVlMq+m0BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Please help I am sending emails to my mail list, the list is not receiving
the email. I have queried with the Web Hosting Company, they advised me that
they have reset the server; if this does not work then I should consider
using another mailing list. Please can someone help? I have tried a test
email, by sending it to the list and cc my own email address; it is reaching
my private email address, but not the list. I am checking by logging and see
if the archive list has changed at all. 

 

Please help.

 

Kind Regards

 

Mark

 

 

Mark A. Lombardo

Email mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk

www.olney-scout-group.org.uk

******************************************************************

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solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must not
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Olney Scout Group accepts no responsibility for information, errors or
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******************************************************************

 



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 18 21:51:10 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:51:10 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect
In-Reply-To: <002401c6630b$389644c0$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604181251100546419720ac@msapiro>

Stephen wrote:

>We are currently having issues, with we suspect SMTPdirect, which is currently set to "localhost". The following are some error messages we recieve;
>
>Apr 18 09:00:04 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection refused')
>delivery to hiddenaddress at somedomain failed with code -1: (111, 'Connection refused')
>
>
>We are seeing hours to multiple days in delay of sending, what appears to be happening is it tries to send to smtpdirect for a period of time then finally gives up and uses /usr/lib/sendmail, now we think we tracked it down.


Mailman doesn't do this. If SMTPDirect thinks the error is retryable,
it will queue the message for retry in the retry queue and it will be
retried later, but by SMTPDirect, not by any other method.


>But we would like to be able to have more verbose logging, to see what smtpdirect is trying to connect too. Is this possible, minding that we have perl programmers and what not but no one that is a python wizard.


SMTPDirect by default is trying to connect to port 25 on 'localhost'.
You can change either or both of these by assigning SMTPHOST and/or
SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. (Note that SMTPPORT = 0 says use the smtplib
default port which is port 25.)


See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.
It is about a different problem, so the solutions probably aren't
directly relevant, but there are small Python snippets and pointers to
others in the archives that may help you with diagnosis.

The logging in SMTPDirect is pretty verbose already. Between the
'post', 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs, you get quite a bit. You can
change the SMTP_LOG_* settings in mm_cfg.py (see the descriptions in
Defaults.py) to get more things reported by the various log
statements, but you can't add additional log statements this way. For
that you actually have to modify SMTPDirect.py.

But, the debug suggestions in the FAQ article should help you find more
information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 18 22:00:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:00:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAAIHcvFeBJy5BuIBgVlMq+m0BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC174020060418130018017162b4eedd@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:

>Please help I am sending emails to my mail list, the list is not receiving
>the email. I have queried with the Web Hosting Company, they advised me that
>they have reset the server; if this does not work then I should consider
>using another mailing list. Please can someone help? I have tried a test
>email, by sending it to the list and cc my own email address; it is reaching
>my private email address, but not the list. I am checking by logging and see
>if the archive list has changed at all. 


Did your list ever work? Can you get mail such as password reminders or
subscription confirmations from the list? Have you checked the admindb
web interface for held messages?

If this is a new list and never worked, there might be something in the
configuration such as members moderated by default and
member_moderation_action set to discard that would cause this, but
most likely this is something that the host would have to resolve and
they seem unwilling to help you.

The standard troubleshooting FAQ is
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 18 22:04:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:04:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Subscriber metrics question
In-Reply-To: <444514D4.7060103@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604181304200781b2bff561@msapiro>

Gary Hall wrote:
>
>My question is how to "view" how many subscribers we have?


Go to the admin Membership Management...->Membership List pages. At the
top of the table of members is "nnn members total, nn shown".

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From walt at udel.edu  Tue Apr 18 22:50:09 2006
From: walt at udel.edu (Walt Dabell)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:50:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rules disappear
Message-ID: <1145393409.3545.18.camel@nomad2>

Greetings from a new subscriber!

I spent some time searching the archives with no results.

I have been running mailman lists for several years and
for the first time I am having a problem. Any rules that
get entered into the "Privacy Options"/"Spam Rules"
(header_filter_rules) disappear all on their own. I 
thought at first it was one of the other admin's
doing something, or an unrefreshed browser that was
wiping them out, but I have restricted access to only me 
and only one machine. Yesterday I put in rules, today
they are gone.

Particulars:
Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon Update 4)
mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.4

Any ideas? Or is this a bug?

Thanks in advance for any help!
-- 
        Walt Dabell - walt at udel.edu
Physics and Astronomy - University of Delaware



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 19 00:04:24 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:04:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rules disappear
In-Reply-To: <1145393409.3545.18.camel@nomad2>
Message-ID: <PC17402006041815042406402367b0b8@msapiro>

Walt Dabell wrote:
>
>Any rules that
>get entered into the "Privacy Options"/"Spam Rules"
>(header_filter_rules) disappear all on their own.
>
>Particulars:
>Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon Update 4)
>mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.4

This is bug
<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1230865&group_id=103&atid=100103>.
It is fixed in 2.1.7, and there is a patch attached to the above
tracker item, but it is less than optimal.

See
<http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py?r1=7462&r2=7565>
for the 2.1.7 fix.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mailman at theabysss.com  Wed Apr 19 14:56:57 2006
From: mailman at theabysss.com (Stephen)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 06:56:57 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect
References: <PC1740200604181251100546419720ac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <000501c663b0$c151df40$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>

Mark;

Thanks ever so much you pointed me to a way to debug, unfortunately we 
rolled out the fix yesterday and I was unable to replicate the issue. It did 
however appear that the user mailman lacked access to the /etc/hosts file. 
There is a side question one of the System Administrators was curious as to 
why when exim would be restarted it force mailman to function.......albeit 
very slowly... is it caching or something alike?

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net>
To: "Stephen" <mailman at theabysss.com>; <mailman-users at python.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Issues with SMTPdirect


> Stephen wrote:
>
>>We are currently having issues, with we suspect SMTPdirect, which is 
>>currently set to "localhost". The following are some error messages we 
>>recieve;
>>
>>Apr 18 09:00:04 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (111, 'Connection 
>>refused')
>>delivery to hiddenaddress at somedomain failed with code -1: (111, 
>>'Connection refused')
>>
>>
>>We are seeing hours to multiple days in delay of sending, what appears to 
>>be happening is it tries to send to smtpdirect for a period of time then 
>>finally gives up and uses /usr/lib/sendmail, now we think we tracked it 
>>down.
>
>
> Mailman doesn't do this. If SMTPDirect thinks the error is retryable,
> it will queue the message for retry in the retry queue and it will be
> retried later, but by SMTPDirect, not by any other method.
>
>
>>But we would like to be able to have more verbose logging, to see what 
>>smtpdirect is trying to connect too. Is this possible, minding that we 
>>have perl programmers and what not but no one that is a python wizard.
>
>
> SMTPDirect by default is trying to connect to port 25 on 'localhost'.
> You can change either or both of these by assigning SMTPHOST and/or
> SMTPPORT in mm_cfg.py. (Note that SMTPPORT = 0 says use the smtplib
> default port which is port 25.)
>
>
> See
> <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq06.014.htp>.
> It is about a different problem, so the solutions probably aren't
> directly relevant, but there are small Python snippets and pointers to
> others in the archives that may help you with diagnosis.
>
> The logging in SMTPDirect is pretty verbose already. Between the
> 'post', 'smtp' and 'smtp-failure' logs, you get quite a bit. You can
> change the SMTP_LOG_* settings in mm_cfg.py (see the descriptions in
> Defaults.py) to get more things reported by the various log
> statements, but you can't add additional log statements this way. For
> that you actually have to modify SMTPDirect.py.
>
> But, the debug suggestions in the FAQ article should help you find more
> information.
>
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
> 



From walt at udel.edu  Wed Apr 19 15:25:09 2006
From: walt at udel.edu (Walt Dabell)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:25:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] spam rules disappear
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006041815042406402367b0b8@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006041815042406402367b0b8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1145453109.24549.15.camel@nomad.bartol.udel.edu>

On Tue, 2006-04-18 at 15:04 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Walt Dabell wrote:
> >
> >Any rules that
> >get entered into the "Privacy Options"/"Spam Rules"
> >(header_filter_rules) disappear all on their own.
> >
> >Particulars:
> >Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon Update 4)
> >mailman-2.1.5.1-25.rhel3.4
> 
> This is bug
> <http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1230865&group_id=103&atid=100103>.
> It is fixed in 2.1.7, and there is a patch attached to the above
> tracker item, but it is less than optimal.
> 
> See
> <http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.cgi/mailman/branches/Release_2_1-maint/mailman/Mailman/Gui/Privacy.py?r1=7462&r2=7565>
> for the 2.1.7 fix.

I had upgraded from the original using up2date. I guess I need 
to download the source and build.

Thanks!!
-- 
      Walt Dabell  -  302-831-1499  -  walt at udel.edu
       Physics & Astronomy - University of Delaware



From mailman at theabysss.com  Wed Apr 19 15:35:37 2006
From: mailman at theabysss.com (Stephen)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:35:37 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Reset by...
Message-ID: <003001c663b6$28091780$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>

Ok got the one thing under control....... now in the error logs we see this every once in awhile;

Apr 18 12:33:13 2006 (7284) delivery to someemail at domain failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
Apr 18 12:33:44 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer'), msgid: mailman-listidentifyer at domain.com


What we are curious to what is the connection reset by peer, technically these are supposed to be sent to our mailproxy then sent out to the respective emails.

-s



From mailman at theabysss.com  Wed Apr 19 15:26:11 2006
From: mailman at theabysss.com (Stephen)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:26:11 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Reset by ...
Message-ID: <001301c663b4$d67a4c00$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>

Ok got the one thing under control....... now in the error logs we see this every once in awhile;

Apr 18 12:33:13 2006 (7284) delivery to someemail at domain failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
Apr 18 12:33:44 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer'), msgid: mailman-listidentifyer at domain.com


What we are curious to what is the connection reset by peer, technically these are supposed to be sent to our mailproxy then sent out to the respective emails.




-s

----

Stephen Trelz
Level III Support
support at bluehost.com
888-401-host
Most solutions can be found at our Knowledgebase.
http://helpdesk.bluehost.com/kb

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 19 16:59:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 07:59:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Connection Reset by...
In-Reply-To: <003001c663b6$28091780$b80a0a0a@agent30027521f>
Message-ID: <PC174020060419075932020308d16e2b@msapiro>

Stephen wrote:

>Ok got the one thing under control....... now in the error logs we see this every once in awhile;
>
>Apr 18 12:33:13 2006 (7284) delivery to someemail at domain failed with code -1: (104, 'Connection reset by peer')
>Apr 18 12:33:44 2006 (7284) Low level smtp error: (104, 'Connection reset by peer'), msgid: mailman-listidentifyer at domain.com
>
>
>What we are curious to what is the connection reset by peer, technically these are supposed to be sent to our mailproxy then sent out to the respective emails.


This is an error that occurs during SMTP delivery from Mailman to the
outgoing MTA. Apparently the MTA dropped the connection.

Both this and the "slowness" you reported earlier can be caused by
doing too much checking in the MTA during the incoming SMTP session.

Visit the FAQ wizard at http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py and
search for performance. Look particularly at 4.11 and for exim at 6.2.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Wed Apr 19 17:26:39 2006
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:26:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A few question on htdig integration
Message-ID: <web-2786689@commpartners.com>

  
I have the htdig patches applied and the search works for 
the most part.  There are two (hopefully) small problems 
that I haven't been able to track down.

Using Mailman 2.1.7

1.  I only seem able to display 100 search results.  If a 
search finds 1022 results, only 100 can actually be looked 
at.   The icons for the next group of 10 pages allow me to 
select 1-10, 11-20, 21-30...91-100.  But can't get past 
100.  Is there a setting somewhere that controls that?

2.  Those Pages icons at the bottom of the search results 
to display the next group of 10 are broken.  Clicking on 
them will advance, but the icon does not display.  The 
html source seems to reference

  <img src="/htdig//button1.gif

My document root is /data/mailman, but I don't have a 
/data/mailman/htdig directory.  I am not sure where those 
image icons should be.

--Karl


From bjenner at corelogik.com  Wed Apr 19 18:46:23 2006
From: bjenner at corelogik.com (Bruce Jenner)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:46:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Size
Message-ID: <C06BB76F.3B1%bjenner@corelogik.com>

My host has mailman installed (2.1.6). I set up a list and mass subscribed
50 users, and everything was working fine.

When the subscriber list reached about 100, mail began to not be sent. Even
the bounce and admin messages weren't coming through even though I was
subscribed.

I have minimal access to the mailing list. Just what I can access through
the admin interface. I do not have access to the logs or running processes.
Basically I do not have shell access to the server.

Is there anything I can do get it to work with a large user list? We now
have 200 members and growing and we need a list of some sort just to keep up
with what's going on.


--
Bruce
www.corelogik.com
-






From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Wed Apr 19 19:13:39 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:13:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing List Size
In-Reply-To: <C06BB76F.3B1%bjenner@corelogik.com>
References: <C06BB76F.3B1%bjenner@corelogik.com>
Message-ID: <p06200701c06c1f66f19a@[192.168.1.100]>

At 9:46 AM -0700 2006-04-19, Bruce Jenner wrote:

>  Is there anything I can do get it to work with a large user list? We now
>  have 200 members and growing and we need a list of some sort just to keep up
>  with what's going on.

	Size is not your problem, at least not so far as the base Mailman 
code is concerned.  See FAQ 1.15 at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.015.htp> 
for more details on that.

	Now, your hosting provider may have made some changes to the code 
that they're running, or they may be running a version of Mailman 
from someone else (e.g., cPanel) which may have been modified, and 
those modifications may prevent you from running a larger list.

	In that case, you need to talk to your hosting provider, or see 
about getting a new hosting provider.


	When troubleshooting Mailman problems, it's a good idea to start 
with the stuff at FAQ 3.14 (see 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.014.htp>) 
and eliminate all those issues before proceeding to anything else.

	I would also encourage you to use the search function for the FAQ 
Wizard via <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py>, and to at 
least take a look at the full index of all FAQ entries at 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=index>.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From robotech.master at gmail.com  Wed Apr 19 21:30:59 2006
From: robotech.master at gmail.com (Robotech_Master)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:30:59 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to edit confirmation message?
Message-ID: <8961f9210604191230o6d5a4411w19b10aef0678d379@mail.gmail.com>

The hosting company for which I work uses Mailman on one of its
servers, and one of our clients wants to know how to edit the
confirmation message that is sent out to subscribers. I notice this is
apparently possible since the confirmation I got for signing up to
this mailing list had a different subject line than the default, but
the option did not appear to be available from the list manager
interface. Is it a matter of hand-editing some text file?

He would also like to know how to change the *subject line* of the
"welcome to this mailing list" post, the *body* of which can be edited
from the list manager menu but apparently not the subject line.

I searched what documentation on Mailman that I could find, but could
not find the answer. Any advice would be appreciated.

--
Chris Meadows aka         | Homepage: http://www.terrania.us
Robotech_Master           |
robotech.master at gmail.com | Earn a free iPod and a free monitor or TV set!
robotech at eyrie.org        |   http://www.terrania.us/conga.html


From carconni at earthlink.net  Wed Apr 19 21:53:47 2006
From: carconni at earthlink.net (Carconni)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:53:47 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list
Message-ID: <30065205.1145476427933.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hi,


Were migrating from dmail to mailman. 

I have a couple of quick questions - if I copy my /private/var/mailman directory to another location will I be able to use it to restore my listserv with it if something goes wrong with it?

I have over 300 lists and I need to modify 'generic_nonmember_action': 1, to 'generic_nonmember_action': 0,.  I understand that config_list should be able to do that.  Will it change all the lists automatically?  What if I wanted to change only a group of lists?  Can I put 'generic_nonmember_action': 0, in a file and lets call that file (fix4), do I run ./config_list -i fix4?  What is the exact syntax. I've looked at mailman commands and I've also run ./config_list -h and there just isn't enough information there.

Does config_list act on the *.pck files in /private/var/mailman/lists/listname directory?

Also can I set "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. " under Privacy to *.emailaddress.com to accept all address from one client?


Thanks for any help you can provide with this.




From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Wed Apr 19 12:08:16 2006
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:08:16 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAABSXhjhQS+pLv7VydboU/b4BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>

Please I am at my wits end here. My hosting company are being very
unsupportive. I have a domain olney-scout-group.org.uk, which is running the
Mailman software. 

 

The situation is as follows, if I post from my domain name  email accounts,
it never appears, but if I post from personal account (not related) to the
site, then it come through fine.

 

Please I need to resolve this issue, as quickly as possible.

 

Mark

 

 

Mark A. Lombardo

Tel & Fax 01908 614407

Mobile 07957 568696

Email mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk

www.olney-scout-group.org.uk

******************************************************************

This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
If you are not the intended recipient you are not authorised to and must not
disclose, copy, distribute, or retain this message or any part of it. 

Olney Scout Group accepts no responsibility for information, errors or
omissions in this email.

******************************************************************

 



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 20 02:59:39 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:59:39 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAABSXhjhQS+pLv7VydboU/b4BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
References: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAABSXhjhQS+pLv7VydboU/b4BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604191759o493acf7bnada6d16de677ac90@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/19/06, Mark.A.Lombardo <mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk> wrote:
> The situation is as follows, if I post from my domain name  email accounts,
> it never appears, but if I post from personal account (not related) to the
> site, then it come through fine.
My guess would be that your hosting company is somehow improperly
routing internal mail. This is almost certainly not a Mailman issue
and, furthermore, almost certainly not something you can fix.

You might want to double-check the configuration that you're using to
send email (make sure you have the proper SMTP server, etc.) Can your
domain name email accounts send mail to your personal account
correctly?

- Patrick Bogen


From mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk  Thu Apr 20 07:07:31 2006
From: mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk (Mark.A.Lombardo)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:07:31 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
Message-ID: <20060420050735.A26211E4004@bag.python.org>

Hi Patrick

No problems sending emails, from domain to personal or vice versa.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
    From: "Patrick Bogen"<pdbogen at gmail.com>
    Sent: 20/04/06 01:59:39
    To: "Mark.A.Lombardo"<mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk>
    Cc: "mailman-users at python.org"<mailman-users at python.org>
    Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Help
    
    On 4/19/06, Mark.A.Lombardo <mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk> wrote:
    > The situation is as follows, if I post from my domain name  email accounts,
    > it never appears, but if I post from personal account (not related) to the
    > site, then it come through fine.
    My guess would be that your hosting company is somehow improperly
    routing internal mail. This is almost certainly not a Mailman issue
    and, furthermore, almost certainly not something you can fix.
    
    You might want to double-check the configuration that you're using to
    send email (make sure you have the proper SMTP server, etc.) Can your
    domain name email accounts send mail to your personal account
    correctly?
    
    - Patrick Bogen
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Mailman-Users mailing list
    Mailman-Users at python.org
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
    Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
    Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
    Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mark.a.lombardo%40olney-scout-group.org.uk
    
    Security Policy: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp
    
    
    

[Message truncated. Tap Edit->Mark for Download to get remaining portion.]



From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu Apr 20 17:25:39 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 07:25:39 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/ on
	this server.
Message-ID: <20060420152539.M17551@enabled.com>


mailman-2.1.7
apache 2.2.0

Okay I just upgrade from apache 1.3.x to apache 2.2.0 and arriving at a
permissions problem when viewing pipermail mailman directories:


---s nip ---

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/garbled-name/ on this server.

--- snip ---


Here is what I've done so far:

---- apache httpd.conf file ----

int he virtual host stanza

        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/home/mailman/cgi-bin/
        Alias /pipermail/ /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/
        Alias /icons/ /usr/home/mailman/icons/
        <Directory /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/>
                  Options +FollowSymlinks
        </Directory>

---s nip ---

restarted apache.

and I ran bin/check_perms

--- snip----

# /usr/home/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
No problems found

=---- snip ----


what else could be the problem here?

cheers,

Noah



From brian at krusic.com  Thu Apr 20 22:22:55 2006
From: brian at krusic.com (Brian Krusic)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:22:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain acceptance posting
Message-ID: <020401c664b8$357f40d0$cc00a8c0@kci>

Hi,

Is there a way to allow any one from a particular domain to post to a list regardless of whether they are members or not?

Does the non member filter accept wildcards and if so, in what format?  I've tried a few to no avail.

Bri-

From wash at wananchi.com  Thu Apr 20 22:59:04 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:59:04 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/
	on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060420152539.M17551@enabled.com>
References: <20060420152539.M17551@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <20060420205904.GA99220@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 20/04/06 07:25 -0800, Noah wrote:
| 
| mailman-2.1.7
| apache 2.2.0
| 
| Okay I just upgrade from apache 1.3.x to apache 2.2.0 and arriving at a
| permissions problem when viewing pipermail mailman directories:
| 
| 
| ---s nip ---
| 
| You don't have permission to access /pipermail/garbled-name/ on this server.
| 
| --- snip ---
| 
| 
| Here is what I've done so far:
| 
| ---- apache httpd.conf file ----
| 
| int he virtual host stanza
| 
|         ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/home/mailman/cgi-bin/
|         Alias /pipermail/ /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/
|         Alias /icons/ /usr/home/mailman/icons/
|         <Directory /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/>
|                   Options +FollowSymlinks
    ==============>  Allow from all

|         </Directory>

Add that, restart Apache and cross your fingers.....


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From admin2 at enabled.com  Thu Apr 20 23:26:54 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 13:26:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/
	on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060420205904.GA99220@ns2.wananchi.com>
References: <20060420152539.M17551@enabled.com>
	<20060420205904.GA99220@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <20060420212600.M70468@enabled.com>

On Thu, 20 Apr 2006 23:59:04 +0300, Odhiambo Washington wrote
> * On 20/04/06 07:25 -0800, Noah wrote:
> | 
> | mailman-2.1.7
> | apache 2.2.0
> | 
> | Okay I just upgrade from apache 1.3.x to apache 2.2.0 and arriving 
> at a | permissions problem when viewing pipermail mailman 
> directories: | | | ---s nip --- | | You don't have permission to 
> access /pipermail/garbled-name/ on this server. | | --- snip --- | | 
> | Here is what I've done so far: | | ---- apache httpd.conf file ----
>  | | int he virtual host stanza | |         ScriptAlias /mailman/ 
> /usr/home/mailman/cgi-bin/ |         Alias /pipermail/
/usr/home/mailman/archives/public/
> |         Alias /icons/ /usr/home/mailman/icons/
> |         <Directory /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/>
> |                   Options +FollowSymlinks
>     ==============>  Allow from all
> 
> |         </Directory>
> 
> Add that, restart Apache and cross your fingers.....
> 



still an apache error:

--- snip ----


Forbidden

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/dir_garbled/ on this server.

Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.2.0 mod_ssl/2.2.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8a DAV/2 PHP/4.4.2 Server at
garbled.domain.com Port 80


---- snip ----


cheers,

Noah



>         cheers
>        - wash 
> +----------------------------------+---------------------------------
> --------+ Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD 
> (Nairobi, KE)  | wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, 
> Loita St.,  | GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI     
>         | GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9         
>     | +---------------------------------+----------------------------
> --------------+ "Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  						 
> --from a /. post



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Fri Apr 21 01:55:23 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:55:23 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Majordomo to Mailman migration - how to convert
	majordomo's "restric_post" policy?
Message-ID: <d73884007fc8c17cd5f9acb3158f4f03@stanford.edu>


We have 25000 majordomo mailing lists and we started migrating these to 
mailman. We have a convert script that
convert a majordomo list to mailman - for most part, it works well. 
However I  cannot find a way  to carry "restric_post" policy over to 
mailman, that is, if a list allows members from another list to post,  
can mailman be configured to allow that? In privacy/sender 
configuration, I don't seem to find a way to do it.

One way of doing this is to populate  members from another list to the 
converted list's sender filter as accepted non-member posting 
addresses.
It will get the initial migration working somewhat transparent, but it 
is harder for list administrators to maintain it.

Any better ideas?

Thanks,

Susan
--




From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 05:53:14 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 20:53:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Majordomo to Mailman migration - how to
	convertmajordomo's "restric_post" policy?
In-Reply-To: <d73884007fc8c17cd5f9acb3158f4f03@stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604202053140312d8604e86@msapiro>

Xueshan Feng wrote:

>However I  cannot find a way  to carry "restric_post" policy over to 
>mailman, that is, if a list allows members from another list to post,  
>can mailman be configured to allow that?

There is a patch available from
<http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion> that will
allow exactly that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lists at suares.an  Fri Apr 21 08:51:11 2006
From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 02:51:11 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can 'mailman@domain' be changed ?
Message-ID: <200604210251.11759.lists@suares.an>


Hi all,
On version 2.1.5, on the listinfo page, an email adres  'mailman at domain' 
is mentioned. We have a situation where our clients work with 
mailinglists on 'lists.domain' but receive their mail at 'domain'.

So, instead of having the listinfo page list 'mailman at list.domain.com' we 
would like it to display 'mailman at domain.com' but we can not find a way 
how to do that. Can you help !?

_Ace

-- 
The manipulation of objects is much easier than
objecting to manipulation
        - unknown

Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions
mail: Sans Souci #11, Willemstad, Curacao (NA)
phone: +599 786 23 73
fax: +31 848 707 705
web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:37:13 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:37:13 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain acceptance posting
In-Reply-To: <020401c664b8$357f40d0$cc00a8c0@kci>
References: <020401c664b8$357f40d0$cc00a8c0@kci>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604210737t720f198h1f5e611dfbbcba37@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/06, Brian Krusic <brian at krusic.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Is there a way to allow any one from a particular domain to post to a list regardless of
> whether they are members or not?
>
> Does the non member filter accept wildcards and if so, in what format?  I've tried a few to
> no avail.

The description of accept_these_nonmembers states:

'...start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular expression match.'

So, something like ^[^@]*@domain.com
should do what you want.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:38:53 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:38:53 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/
	on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060420212600.M70468@enabled.com>
References: <20060420152539.M17551@enabled.com>
	<20060420205904.GA99220@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<20060420212600.M70468@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604210738k33081a11gb5ca20ac27fc28f2@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/06, Noah <admin2 at enabled.com> wrote:
> Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
> ErrorDocument to handle the request.

It sounds like you have more problems with your Apache install thank
you think. Is it running under the same user/group as before?
Did you install from a distribution package, or build from source?
What do the permissions look like on the pipermail directory in question?

--
- Patrick Bogen


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 21 16:41:19 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:41:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <44471714.49cedb2a.3d39.05dfSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com>
References: <44471714.49cedb2a.3d39.05dfSMTPIN_ADDED@mx.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604210741o3fdc9152j9438e364844b789d@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/20/06, Mark.A.Lombardo <mark.a.lombardo at olney-scout-group.org.uk> wrote:
> No problems sending emails, from domain to personal or vice versa.

Is your domain email on the list in question? If you send email to
your list from your personal email, does it go to the domain email AND
the personal email, or just to the personal email?

I'm not sure if there are any mailman settings that would produce the
behaviour you describe, so it sounds to me like an issue at the ISP
level. I may well be wrong, though.


--
- Patrick Bogen


From gary.chris at comcast.net  Fri Apr 21 18:03:49 2006
From: gary.chris at comcast.net (Gary Hall)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:03:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I download my subscriber list
Message-ID: <44490265.8000808@comcast.net>

Hi Mark,

I looked at the FAQ's and I am not sure I know how to work with one at:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg34310.html

My question is how can I download my subscriber list to, say, a text 
file. Is there any way to DL to a dot cvs file / Excel or anything at all?

Is there anything easy, something I overlooked? (like my last question 
to you)

Thanks.

Warm regards,

Gary


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 18:15:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 09:15:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I download my subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <44490265.8000808@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060421091540003153335f67@msapiro>

Gary Hall wrote:
>
>I looked at the FAQ's


Did you see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>?

>
>My question is how can I download my subscriber list to, say, a text 
>file. Is there any way to DL to a dot cvs file / Excel or anything at all?

The answer should be in the above FAQ.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 19:55:54 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 10:55:54 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] config_list
In-Reply-To: <30065205.1145476427933.JavaMail.root@elwamui-rubis.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604211055540234c8566f40@msapiro>

Carconni wrote:
>
>I have a couple of quick questions - if I copy my /private/var/mailman directory to another location will I be able to use it to restore my listserv with it if something goes wrong with it?


Probably. There are potential issues if things are being changed while
the copy is running, but assuming that the settings for PREFIX,
EXEC_PREFIX and VAR_PREFIX in your installation all point to that
directory, it will have everything.


>I have over 300 lists and I need to modify 'generic_nonmember_action': 1, to 'generic_nonmember_action': 0,.  I understand that config_list should be able to do that.


Yes, and so can withlist.


>Will it change all the lists automatically?


config_list won't. You have to wrap it in a shell command that does it
for all lists.


>What if I wanted to change only a group of lists?  Can I put 'generic_nonmember_action': 0, in a file and lets call that file (fix4), do I run ./config_list -i fix4?  What is the exact syntax.


./config_list -i fix4 listname


or maybe something like

#! bin/sh
for list in `bin/list_lists --bare`
do bin/config_list -i fix4 $list
done

or

#! bin/sh
for list in `cat file/containing/listnames/todo`
do bin/config_list -i fix4 $list
done


>I've looked at mailman commands and I've also run ./config_list -h and there just isn't enough information there.


How can we improve 'config_list -h' to be more helpful?


>Does config_list act on the *.pck files in /private/var/mailman/lists/listname directory?


The list configuration, membership, member options, etc are all in the
config.pck file with one generation of backup in config.pck.last.

request.pck contains the outstanding administrative requests such as
held post request that appear on the admindb page. pending.pck
contains requests waiting confirmation from the submitter, e.g. a
subscription or address change request. Neither of these is affected
by config_list which only changes some of the things in config.pck.


>Also can I set "List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. " under Privacy to *.emailaddress.com to accept all address from one client?


You can put a regular expression in that list, but it has to begin with
'^' so you could put something like

^.*\.emailaddress\.com$ to accept anything that ends with literally
'.emailaddress.com'. See <http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>
for the syntax of Python regular expressions.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 20:22:15 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:22:15 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Help
In-Reply-To: <!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAAG2MqA5GLIdBqWVuDEnGemPCgAAAEAAAABSXhjhQS+pLv7VydboU/b4BAAAAAA==@olney-scout-group.org.uk>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042111221500150950ae3e@msapiro>

Mark.A.Lombardo wrote:
>
>The situation is as follows, if I post from my domain name  email accounts,
>it never appears, but if I post from personal account (not related) to the
>site, then it come through fine.


The incoming MTA (exim?) at the host is routing mail differently
depending on whether it originates from your local domain or
externally. In the latter case, mail to a list is properly routed to
Mailman. In the former case it is not. Possibly it is being delivered
to a local mailbox with the name of the list instead.

Check for the presence of a local mailbox in your domain containing the
missing list posts. If there is such, perhaps you can use that as
information in your discussions with the host.

I am assuming you don't have any direct control over mail routing. If
you do, perhaps you made some change that is causing this.

In any case, if the hosting company continues to be unsupportive, it
may be time to consider a new host.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 20:47:53 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:47:53 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] domain acceptance posting
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604210737t720f198h1f5e611dfbbcba37@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042111475302180950af2f@msapiro>

Patrick Bogen wrote:

>On 4/20/06, Brian Krusic <brian at krusic.com> wrote:
>>
>> Does the non member filter accept wildcards and if so, in what format?  I've tried a few to
>> no avail.
>
>The description of accept_these_nonmembers states:
>
>'...start the line with a ^ character to designate a regular expression match.'
>
>So, something like ^[^@]*@domain.com
>should do what you want.


And if you need further help on syntax, see
<http://docs.python.org/lib/re-syntax.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 20:51:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:51:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060420212600.M70468@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042111511705150950b034@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>Forbidden
>
>You don't have permission to access /pipermail/dir_garbled/ on this server.
>
>Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
>ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>Apache/2.2.0 mod_ssl/2.2.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8a DAV/2 PHP/4.4.2 Server at
>garbled.domain.com Port 80


Is there anything more specific in Apache's error_log?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kwz-mm at commpartners.com  Fri Apr 21 21:04:34 2006
From: kwz-mm at commpartners.com (Karl Zander)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 15:04:34 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A few question on htdig integration [solved]
In-Reply-To: <web-2786689@commpartners.com>
References: <web-2786689@commpartners.com>
Message-ID: <web-2791402@commpartners.com>

In hopes this helps someone else, here is what I figured 
out.

But defualt ht://dig will display only 100 results, 10 
pages of 10 items.  But this can be configured to your 
needs on a per list basis.

The configuation file is located in
/mailman/archives/private/listname/htdig/listname.conf

Edit the file to add the directive

maximum_pages: n   where n is the number of pages you want

with maximum_pages: 100 you would be able to display 1000 
results.

I actually turned off the page icons by commenting out
page_number_text:
prev_page_text:
next_page_text:

--Karl



On Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:26:39 -0400
  "Karl Zander" <kwz-mm at commpartners.com> wrote:
>  
> I have the htdig patches applied and the search works 
>for 
> the most part.  There are two (hopefully) small problems 
> that I haven't been able to track down.
> 
> Using Mailman 2.1.7
> 
> 1.  I only seem able to display 100 search results.  If 
>a 
> search finds 1022 results, only 100 can actually be 
>looked 
> at.   The icons for the next group of 10 pages allow me 
>to 
> select 1-10, 11-20, 21-30...91-100.  But can't get past 
> 100.  Is there a setting somewhere that controls that?
> 
> 2.  Those Pages icons at the bottom of the search 
>results 
> to display the next group of 10 are broken.  Clicking on 
> them will advance, but the icon does not display.  The 
> html source seems to reference
> 
>  <img src="/htdig//button1.gif
> 
> My document root is /data/mailman, but I don't have a 
> /data/mailman/htdig directory.  I am not sure where 
>those 
> image icons should be.
> 
> --Karl
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
>http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/kwz-mm%40commpartners.com
> 
> Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp

  


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 21:33:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 12:33:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can 'mailman@domain' be changed ?
In-Reply-To: <200604210251.11759.lists@suares.an>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042112334808280950b18c@msapiro>

Ace Suares wrote:

>On version 2.1.5, on the listinfo page, an email adres  'mailman at domain' 
>is mentioned. We have a situation where our clients work with 
>mailinglists on 'lists.domain' but receive their mail at 'domain'.
>
>So, instead of having the listinfo page list 'mailman at list.domain.com' we 
>would like it to display 'mailman at domain.com' but we can not find a way 
>how to do that. Can you help !?


The domain portion of this address depends in various ways on what's in
mm_cfg.py and perhaps Defaults.py and possibly on what version of
Mailman you are running (there was an error in this area not corrected
until 2.1.8).

It is complicated to explain all the possibilities, so see the
definitions of get_domain() and get_site_email() in Mailman/Utils.py

Basically, if you have VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On (the default) and you
access the listinfo page at http://list.domain.com/mailman.listinfo
and you have add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'domain.com') in
mm_cfg.py (or if these are the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
values), you should see what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Fri Apr 21 22:04:41 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:04:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Little doubt
Message-ID: <p06230978c06eeb4cebc3@[10.0.1.4]>

johannes.kepler at sapo.pt wrote:
>
>The page I edit and gives problems is the "Welcome email text file " - a text
>file. As far as the html files, there's no problem.
>
>Citando Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>:
>
>> johannes.kepler at sapo.pt wrote:
>>
>> >> 2) When I edit the files to be showed to the user, the text one appears
>> >> with funny characters when I use letters like ?, ?, ?, ?, ?, etc -
>> they
>> >> are used in portuguese. How can I prevent this of happening?
>>
>>
>> Which files are you editing? How are you editing them? Where are you
>> placing edited versions? Are you perhaps creating edited templates
>> with, e.g., utf-8 encoding (pt templates need to be iso-8859-1
>> encoded)?

Jonannes,

Would it help to encode these special characters in the HTML text as follows:

&atilde;
&ocirc;
&agrave;
&aacute;
&ccedil;

etc.?

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        allan at hansen-family.us       |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.hansen-family.us/ |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 21 22:42:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 13:42:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] How to edit confirmation message?
In-Reply-To: <8961f9210604191230o6d5a4411w19b10aef0678d379@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042113425504840950b03b@msapiro>

Robotech_Master wrote:

>The hosting company for which I work uses Mailman on one of its
>servers, and one of our clients wants to know how to edit the
>confirmation message that is sent out to subscribers. I notice this is
>apparently possible since the confirmation I got for signing up to
>this mailing list had a different subject line than the default, but
>the option did not appear to be available from the list manager
>interface. Is it a matter of hand-editing some text file?


The subject of the confirmation message is either the fixed text "Your
confirmation is required to join the %(listname)s mailing list" (hard
coded in the GetConfirmJoinSubject() method Mailman/MailList.py) or
the confirm command depending on the setting of VERP_CONFIRMATIONS in
Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py.

The contents of the confirmation is built from the verify.txt template.
This is not one of the templates that can be edited through the admin
web interface. See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp>
for editing information.


>He would also like to know how to change the *subject line* of the
>"welcome to this mailing list" post, the *body* of which can be edited
>from the list manager menu but apparently not the subject line.


The welcome message subject is hard coded in the SendSubscribeAck()
method in Mailman/Deliverer.py.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Apr 22 02:38:15 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 16:38:15 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042111511705150950b034@msapiro>
References: <20060420212600.M70468@enabled.com>
	<PC17402006042111511705150950b034@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060422003717.M62758@enabled.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 11:51:17 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >Forbidden
> >
> >You don't have permission to access /pipermail/dir_garbled/ on this server.
> >
> >Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
> >ErrorDocument to handle the request.
> >Apache/2.2.0 mod_ssl/2.2.0 OpenSSL/0.9.8a DAV/2 PHP/4.4.2 Server at
> >garbled.domain.com Port 80
> 
> Is there anything more specific in Apache's error_log?


Yeah Mark,

--- snip ----

Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
/usr/home/mailman/archives/public/news, referer:
http://domain.garbled.com/mailman/listinfo/news

--- snip ---

cllues please?






> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 22 03:00:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:00:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060422003717.M62758@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042118004105007a2af03d@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
>/usr/home/mailman/archives/public/news, referer:
>http://domain.garbled.com/mailman/listinfo/news
>


In the OP you said you had for the appropriate virtual host

        <Directory /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/>
                  Options +FollowSymlinks
        </Directory>

So symlinks should be allowed. That leaves existence and permissions:

Is /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/news a symlink to
/usr/home/mailman/archives/private/news?

Is /usr/home/mailman/archives/private/news and its subordinates world
readable and in the case of directories searchable, i.e. do directory
permissions (other than the news/database directory) look like

drwxrwsr-x

and file permissions look like

-rw-rw-r--


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 22 03:48:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060422011651.M7878@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042118483809377a2af1ef@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>lets look at the dirs involved:
>
>drwxrws---  101 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 13 17:49
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private
># ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
>drwxrwsr-x  50 www  www  4096 Apr 17 21:40
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list

This should be owned by mailman:mailman or you won't be able to access
it through the private wrapper. Not a problem as long as the archive
is public, and not the cause of your current problem, but it would be
good to fix it.



>drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 13 17:49
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public
>lrwxrwxrwx  1 root  mailman  49 Jan 11  2003
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list -> /home/mailman/archives/private/list

So it looks like the symlink points to the wrong directory. S/b either
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list or following the symlink
below, /usr/home/mailman/archives/private/list, but what's
/home/mailman/archives/private/list?


>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  18 Apr  4  2004 /usr/home/mailman -> /usr/local/mailman

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Apr 22 04:02:59 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:02:59 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042118483809377a2af1ef@msapiro>
References: <20060422011651.M7878@enabled.com>
	<PC17402006042118483809377a2af1ef@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060422015824.M26472@enabled.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 18:48:38 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >lets look at the dirs involved:
> >
> >drwxrws---  101 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 13 17:49
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private
> ># ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
> >drwxrwsr-x  50 www  www  4096 Apr 17 21:40
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
> 
> This should be owned by mailman:mailman or you won't be able to 
> access it through the private wrapper. Not a problem as long as the archive
> is public, and not the cause of your current problem, but it would be
> good to fix it.

okay Mark:

check_perms fixed now it does not report any errors:


---=- snip ----
# /usr/local/mailman/bin/check_perms -f
No problems found
--- snip ---

> 
> >drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 13 17:49
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/public
> >lrwxrwxrwx  1 root  mailman  49 Jan 11  2003
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list -> /home/mailman/archives/private/list
> 
> So it looks like the symlink points to the wrong directory. S/b 
> either /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list or following the symlink
> below, /usr/home/mailman/archives/private/list, but what's
> /home/mailman/archives/private/list?


okay look - /home symlinked to /usr/home
lrwxr-xr-x   1 root  wheel        9 Jan 10  2003 home -> /usr/home

now I changed this:

lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman  54 Apr 21 19:00
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list ->
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list




> 
> >lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  wheel  18 Apr  4  2004 /usr/home/mailman ->
/usr/local/mailman
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 22 04:37:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:37:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <20060422015824.M26472@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042119374301257a2aeec8@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>now I changed this:
>
>lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman  54 Apr 21 19:00
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list ->
>/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list

And do you still have the same error in the apache error_log?

If so, this would seem to be an Apache configuration issue rather than
a Mailman issue. I don't know what the problem might be, but you might
get more help from an Apache support resource.

I note that <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#options>
says

FollowSymLinks
    The server will follow symbolic links in this directory.

    ...

    Note also, that this option gets ignored if set inside a <Location>
section.

Could that be the problem?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sat Apr 22 05:43:28 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:43:28 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/on this server.
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042119374301257a2aeec8@msapiro>
References: <20060422015824.M26472@enabled.com>
	<PC17402006042119374301257a2aeec8@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060422034038.M22829@enabled.com>

On Fri, 21 Apr 2006 19:37:43 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >now I changed this:
> >
> >lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman  54 Apr 21 19:00
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list ->
> >/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
> 
> And do you still have the same error in the apache error_log?


Hey Mark,

yuppers.


> 
> If so, this would seem to be an Apache configuration issue rather 
> than a Mailman issue. I don't know what the problem might be, but 
> you might get more help from an Apache support resource.
> 
> I note that <http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/mod/core.html#options>
> says
> 
> FollowSymLinks
>     The server will follow symbolic links in this directory.
> 
>     ...
> 
>     Note also, that this option gets ignored if set inside a <Location>
> section.
> 
> Could that be the problem?


Yeah I found some <Location> sections in the config file but the
FollowSymLinks option is not present in those sections:

grep Location *
httpd.<garbled>.conf:<Location /fnord/server-status>
httpd.<garbled>.conf:</Location>
httpd.<garbled>.conf:<Location /fnord/server-info>
httpd.<garbled>.conf:</Location>
httpd.<garbled>.conf:<Location /cgi-bin/phf*>
httpd.<garbled>.conf:</Location>


thanks for all your help.  if you have any other ideas please dont hesitate to
send them.

I am going to get on the apache mail list and ask again because the apache
docs are quite thorough but I still cant figure it out after reading them.

cheers,

Noah




> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sfeng at stanford.edu  Sat Apr 22 06:21:36 2006
From: sfeng at stanford.edu (Xueshan Feng)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2006 21:21:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Majordomo to Mailman migration - how to
	convertmajordomo's "restric_post" policy?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604202053140312d8604e86@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604202053140312d8604e86@msapiro>
Message-ID: <a9337e1048881d66817029b8f5850b05@stanford.edu>


On Apr 20, 2006, at 8:53 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

> Xueshan Feng wrote:
>
>> However I  cannot find a way  to carry "restric_post" policy over to
>> mailman, that is, if a list allows members from another list to post,
>> can mailman be configured to allow that?
>
> There is a patch available from
> <http://starship.python.net/crew/jwt/mailman/#listinclusion> that will
> allow exactly that.

Yup this was  exactly what I was looking for. The patch applies to 
mailman-2.1.7.  as well. Haven't tried 2.1.8 yet.

thanks!
Xueshan



From morgan at websquad.com  Sat Apr 22 20:28:17 2006
From: morgan at websquad.com (websquad)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:28:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get WHO to work
Message-ID: <4043670.post@talk.nabble.com>



I'm still confused about the who command ... I set this mailling list as
follows:

ListAdmin only can view address list

I'm listed as one of the ListAdmins

I know the ListAdmin password

I sent request to MailListName-request at domain.org

I specified in the subject who AdminPassword

I got no response.

I then set it so that any list member can view address list

I'm still a member of the list

I changed my password just to be sure

I sent request to MailListName-request at domain.org

I specified in the subject who MyPassword

I got no response.

Finally, I repeated the last test, but without specifying the password.

I got the following response:

The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
original message.

- Results:

Usage:

who password [address=&lt;address&gt;]

 See everyone who is on this mailing list.  The roster is limited to
 list members only, and you must supply your membership password to
 retrieve it.  If you're posting from an address other than your
 membership address, specify your membership address with
 `address=&lt;address&gt;' (no brackets around the email address, and no
 quotes!)

- Done.

So, I went and changed my password (to be sure), and repeated the test:

The subject: who newpassword

I got no response ....

So I set the password to something simple ("x"), had my password Emailed to
me (to check), and tried again:

The subject: who x

I got no response.

HELP !!
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can%27t-get-WHO-to-work-t1492175.html#a4043670
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 22 20:56:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:56:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get WHO to work
In-Reply-To: <4043670.post@talk.nabble.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604221156350562fa727075@msapiro>

websquad wrote:
>
<snip>
>
>I got no response.
>
<snip>
>
>Finally, I repeated the last test, but without specifying the password.
>
>I got the following response:
>
>The results of your email command are provided below. Attached is your
>original message.
>
>- Results:
<snip>
>
>I got no response.


You should always get a response. Either the subscriber list or the
diagnostic message that you did receive. Thus, my best guess is that
those responses that include the list are being eaten or diverted by a
spam filter somewhere on the way to you.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From morgan at websquad.com  Sat Apr 22 22:54:35 2006
From: morgan at websquad.com (websquad)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:54:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can't get WHO to work
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604221156350562fa727075@msapiro>
References: <4043670.post@talk.nabble.com>
	<PC1740200604221156350562fa727075@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4045140.post@talk.nabble.com>



Good catch, Mark.  A little "whitelisting" in the SPAM filter cleared it all
up!

Thanks!!
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can%27t-get-WHO-to-work-t1492175.html#a4045140
Sent from the Mailman - Users forum at Nabble.com.


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sat Apr 22 22:46:20 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:46:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Um? "You are subscribed to a list of mailing lists"?
Message-ID: <444A961C.8020404@wingfoot.org>

Hey all!

I just set up a new mailing list (was a move to a new listname, too many
spammers found the old one).

So I subscribed all the old users.

Now, on their options pages, they all say under the "Your <listname>
Password" section:

"Forgotten Your Password?
Click this button to have your password emailed to your membership address.

(Note - you are subscribing to a list of mailing lists, so the password
notice will be sent to the admin address for your membership, (removed
for privacy)-owner@(removed for privacy).)"

How the heck?!

I'm running Mailman 2.1.7 with the ht://dig, archiving, and indexing
patches, on FreeBSD 4.11, Apache 2.0.55, Postfix 2.2.8, etc.

Thanks in advance!

Best,
--Glenn
-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From ges+lists at wingfoot.org  Sat Apr 22 23:13:52 2006
From: ges+lists at wingfoot.org (Glenn Sieb)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 17:13:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Um? "You are subscribed to a list of mailing
 lists"?
In-Reply-To: <444A961C.8020404@wingfoot.org>
References: <444A961C.8020404@wingfoot.org>
Message-ID: <444A9C90.7070607@wingfoot.org>

Glenn Sieb said the following on 4/22/2006 4:46 PM:
> Hey all!
> 
> I just set up a new mailing list (was a move to a new listname, too many
> spammers found the old one).

Nevermind. Apparently the moderator of the list set "send password
reminders to -owner" (an option I'd never played with before, so it
didn't leap out at me at first).

*sigh* all fixed.

Thank you all anyway. :)

We now return you to your previously scheduled mailing list.

Best,
--Glenn

-- 
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
          ~Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759


From ostonica at shaw.ca  Sat Apr 22 23:31:29 2006
From: ostonica at shaw.ca (Jim Swift)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:31:29 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which lists does a subscriber belong to
Message-ID: <444AA0B1.8010209@shaw.ca>

I look after about 30 lists, which have recently been moved to a Mailman
server. One routine task is to find out which lists a particular email
address is subscribed to.

Much to my surprise and some dismay, there simply does not seem to be a a
way to to this in Mailman. The lists were on a Lyris server until the ISP
hosting the lyris server moved last week, and the only quick fix was a move
to an available Mailman server.

I used to send the command "which email_address" to the lyris manager and
received the list names that the address was subscriber to.

Please could someone let me know how I can get this information from Mailman?

Many thanks

Jim Swift



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 01:13:19 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 16:13:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Which lists does a subscriber belong to
In-Reply-To: <444AA0B1.8010209@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <PC174020060422161319092124e9766c@msapiro>

Jim Swift wrote:
>
>I used to send the command "which email_address" to the lyris manager and
>received the list names that the address was subscriber to.
>
>Please could someone let me know how I can get this information from Mailman?


There is no email way to get this in Mailman.

If you have command line access to the Mailman installation,
bin/find_member will do this. Actually it does more. It finds all
addresses that match a regular expression and then lists the lists
that each address belongs to.

In addition a user can go to her/his options page for any list and
click "List my other subscriptions" to see all lists in the domain to
which she/he is subscribed.

By extension, an admin of any list can go to the membership list pages
and click any members address to get the members options page and then
click the "List my other subscriptions" button to get the names of all
the lists to which the member belongs.

Other than the above, there is no web way to get this information
directly.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Apr 23 01:49:19 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:49:19 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/ on
	this server.
Message-ID: <20060422234919.M23849@enabled.com>


mailman-2.1.7
apache 2.2.0
FreeBSD-4.11

Okay I just upgrade from apache 1.3.x to apache 2.2.0 and arriving at a
permissions problem when viewing pipermail mailman directories.  

I've asked already but Maybe somebody else on the list can help.  I apologize
for the duality but I cant figure it out.


--- Browser error message ---

You don't have permission to access /pipermail/list/ on this server.
Additionally, a 403 Forbidden error was encountered while trying to use an
ErrorDocument to handle the request.

--- snip ---

Here is what apache places in the /usr/local/www/logs/domain.name/error_log

--- snip ---

Symbolic link not allowed or link target not accessible:
/usr/home/mailman/archives/public/list, referer:
http://hostname.garbled.com/mailman/listinfo/list

---- snip ----


Here is what I've done so far:

---- apache httpd.conf file ----

in the virtual host stanza for the particular domain:

        ScriptAlias /mailman/ /usr/local/mailman/cgi-bin/
        Alias /pipermail/ /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
        Alias /icons/ /usr/local/mailman/icons/

        <Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/>
                Options All
                Order allow,deny
                Allow from all
        </Directory>

        <Directory /usr/home/mailman/archives/public/>
                Options All
                Order allow,deny
                Allow from all
        </Directory>

        <Directory /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/>
                Options +FollowSymLinks
                Order allow,deny
                Allow from all
        </Directory>


--- snip ---

then restarted apache.

--- snip ---

looks like the directories have proper permissions:
typhoon# ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
drwxrws---  103 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private
typhoon# ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
drwxrwsr-x  2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 21 21:49
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/
typhoon# ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list
lrwxr-xr-x  1 root  mailman  54 Apr 21 19:00
/usr/local/mailman/archives/public/list ->
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
typhoon# ls -ld /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list
drwxrwsr-x  50 www  mailman  4096 Apr 21 18:34
/usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list

--- snip ---



what else could be the problem here?

cheers,

Noah



From lists at iwbyte.com  Sun Apr 23 08:42:57 2006
From: lists at iwbyte.com (Matt Cohen)
Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 23:42:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sanitizer settings on a per-list basis
Message-ID: <p06230900c070d23ceded@[192.168.1.107]>

I know about setting the Scrubber/santizer settings in mm_cfg.py as 
per this FAQ entry:

http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=edit&file=faq04.037.htp

But is there a way to make it apply on a per-list basis rather than 
server-wide?


From lists at norrbring.se  Sun Apr 23 09:25:10 2006
From: lists at norrbring.se (Anders Norrbring)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:25:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extra info?
Message-ID: <444B2BD6.7080405@norrbring.se>

I have a running mailman 2.1.2 installation where I'm looking to add 
more parameters to the signup.

What I want to do is add one more text input field to the web signup 
form, and to have the content of that field show in both the e-mail sent 
to the admin that notifies that a new user want to sign up, and I want 
it to show in the web page where the admin accepts or denies new signups.

Can someone please point to where I can find info on this?  I'm totally 
new to modifying Python scripts, so reading and guessing in the source 
files isn't really an option...

Anders.


From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Apr 23 17:53:54 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 07:53:54 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/ on
	this server.
Message-ID: <20060423155354.M95168@enabled.com>


mailman-2.1.7
apache 2.2.0
FreeBSD-4.11

Thanks again for all your help.

I never found anything in the intsallation manual as the check_perms message
suggests.

but what I did do was remove all other permissions and put the ownership of
the private directory to www to solve the problem.  check_perms works well now.

# ls -l
total 6
drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 21 21:49 public


Maybe somebody with the mailman documents team could update their documents
and/or make this type of information easier to find.



cheers,

Noah 




From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 18:20:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 09:20:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sanitizer settings on a per-list basis
In-Reply-To: <p06230900c070d23ceded@[192.168.1.107]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604230920550109fc9338c4@msapiro>

Matt Cohen wrote:

>I know about setting the Scrubber/santizer settings in mm_cfg.py as 
>per this FAQ entry:
>
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=edit&file=faq04.037.htp
>
>But is there a way to make it apply on a per-list basis rather than 
>server-wide?


No there isn't. The reason for this is that this allows cross site
scripting (XSS) atacks against the entire server by archiving
potentially malicious HTML. This is a server-wide vulnerability so it
should be up to the server administrators to enable it.

We could treat the option differently, as for example we do with
OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION, but since we highly discourage this
option anyway, no one has made the effort to implement this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 19:17:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:17:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/
	onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <20060423155354.M95168@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231017060453fc9339eb@msapiro>

Noah wrote off list:

>after a 'chmod o+x private/' the public and private mailman archives are visible.
>
>but now when I run the bin/check_perms -f I see the following warning:
>
># ./check_perms -f
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>        This could allow other users on your system to read private archives.
>        If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>        installation manual on how to fix this.

And now writes:

>I never found anything in the intsallation manual as the check_perms message
>suggests.


I agree that this is not addressed well in the manual.


>but what I did do was remove all other permissions and put the ownership of
>the private directory to www to solve the problem.  check_perms works well now.
>
># ls -l
>total 6
>drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
>drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 21 21:49 public


Actually, regardless of check_perms complaints or lack thereof,

drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private

is worse than

drwxrws--x  103 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private

The latter only allows the web browser to search the private directory,
while the former allows it to read it as well.

I'm not 100% certain about this, but I think the o+x on the private
directory /is/ required in at least some OSs for the symlinks from
public/* to private/* to work.

Also, the Makefile that creates archives/private has created it with
o+x for many years.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mengland at mengland.net  Sun Apr 23 19:17:50 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:17:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP-based reg & "one-page" subscription selection?
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060423120557.04e6cea8@127.0.0.1>

The questions:

Do any Mailman-to-LDAP "connectors" exist?

Do any single-view-for-all-subscriptions software packages exist for Mailman?


The background details:

My collaboration site plans to offer several Mailman lists in addition to 
its existing applications (MediaWiki, phpBB, Subversion, and more to 
come).  We use a single/common account-registration capability across all 
these existing apps using an LDAP-based user-accounting mechanism.

We would to bring Mailman into this LDAP-based registration scheme.

Further, we would like to have a "Mailman email-list subscription overview" 
page in which we allow the LDAP-registered-and-signed-on user to be able so 
simply select in one page view--probably with a list of email lists 
presented to them with checkboxes next to each list allowing the user to 
mark a list as "subscribed" or "unsubscribed."

We are looking for software packages that have already solved this 
problem.  Does anyone know of any?

We haven't found any--although our search has not been exhaustive.  Some 
simple googles haven't found anything, nor has 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> produced anything for "ldap" or 
"single subscription" or "subscription page".

We were considering rolling our own stuff, but I thought I'd ask here 
before proceeding.


An aside: we don't have single-sign-on capability on our site yet, but that 
will be coming shortly, too.  Right now the user has to sign on with each app.

Another aside:  We have been working with a similar "internal" 
collaboration site with several functional and popular Mailman lists, but 
this sight had no integrated registration or login--each app, including 
Mailman, had a different account namespace.  We have now fired up a 
"public" collaboration site (our project has open-sourced) to replace a 
part of this internal-site's activity, and we don't want the user 
experience to be as fractured on our public site as our private/internal site.

-Matt



From mengland at mengland.net  Sun Apr 23 19:31:19 2006
From: mengland at mengland.net (Matt England)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:31:19 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP-based reg & "one-page" subscription
 selection?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060423120557.04e6cea8@127.0.0.1>
References: <6.1.2.0.2.20060423120557.04e6cea8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060423122928.05cc7630@127.0.0.1>

I forgot to mention earlier that we are familiar with the following 
single-sign-on solutions:

http://www.ja-sig.org/products/cas/
http://shibboleth.internet2.edu/
http://www.pubcookie.org/

and references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Identity_management_systems

I don't yet know how or if these things can assist with the 
Mailman-specific challenges, but we will probably using one of the 
open-source ones for our single-sign on capability in the future.

-Matt


At 4/23/2006 12:17 PM, Matt England wrote:
>The questions:
>
>Do any Mailman-to-LDAP "connectors" exist?
>
>Do any single-view-for-all-subscriptions software packages exist for Mailman?
>
>
>The background details:
>
>My collaboration site plans to offer several Mailman lists in addition to
>its existing applications (MediaWiki, phpBB, Subversion, and more to
>come).  We use a single/common account-registration capability across all
>these existing apps using an LDAP-based user-accounting mechanism.
>
>We would to bring Mailman into this LDAP-based registration scheme.
>
>Further, we would like to have a "Mailman email-list subscription overview"
>page in which we allow the LDAP-registered-and-signed-on user to be able so
>simply select in one page view--probably with a list of email lists
>presented to them with checkboxes next to each list allowing the user to
>mark a list as "subscribed" or "unsubscribed."
>
>We are looking for software packages that have already solved this
>problem.  Does anyone know of any?
>
>We haven't found any--although our search has not been exhaustive.  Some
>simple googles haven't found anything, nor has
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> produced anything for "ldap" or
>"single subscription" or "subscription page".
>
>We were considering rolling our own stuff, but I thought I'd ask here
>before proceeding.
>
>
>An aside: we don't have single-sign-on capability on our site yet, but that
>will be coming shortly, too.  Right now the user has to sign on with each app.
>
>Another aside:  We have been working with a similar "internal"
>collaboration site with several functional and popular Mailman lists, but
>this sight had no integrated registration or login--each app, including
>Mailman, had a different account namespace.  We have now fired up a
>"public" collaboration site (our project has open-sourced) to replace a
>part of this internal-site's activity, and we don't want the user
>experience to be as fractured on our public site as our private/internal site.
>
>-Matt
>
>------------------------------------------------------
>Mailman-Users mailing list
>Mailman-Users at python.org
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
>Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
>Unsubscribe: 
>http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/mengland%40mengland.net
>
>Security Policy: 
>http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From gary.chris at comcast.net  Sun Apr 23 20:10:47 2006
From: gary.chris at comcast.net (Gary Hall)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:10:47 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I download my subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060421091540003153335f67@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060421091540003153335f67@msapiro>
Message-ID: <444BC327.1060504@comcast.net>

Hi Mark,

Darn. I was hoping there was a utility to "export" the lists. I'll have 
to get our programmer to set up an account for me I guess.

This should be a feature in some upcoming version as it is important to 
be able to back up your lists. I have two lists: One is 600 and the 
other is 5,000.

Do you think this is something I should ask the developers 
<mailman-developers at python.org> to consider?

Thanks.

Warm regards,

Gary

Mark Sapiro wrote:

>Gary Hall wrote:
>  
>
>>I looked at the FAQ's
>>    
>>
>
>
>Did you see
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.062.htp>?
>
>  
>
>>My question is how can I download my subscriber list to, say, a text 
>>file. Is there any way to DL to a dot cvs file / Excel or anything at all?
>>    
>>
>
>The answer should be in the above FAQ.
>
>  
>


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 20:12:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:12:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Extra info?
In-Reply-To: <444B2BD6.7080405@norrbring.se>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231112030812ab81314f@msapiro>

Anders Norrbring wrote:
>
>What I want to do is add one more text input field to the web signup 
>form, and to have the content of that field show in both the e-mail sent 
>to the admin that notifies that a new user want to sign up, and I want 
>it to show in the web page where the admin accepts or denies new signups.
>
>Can someone please point to where I can find info on this?  I'm totally 
>new to modifying Python scripts, so reading and guessing in the source 
>files isn't really an option...

Well then you're probably out of luck, because the source files are the
only place where the information is found.

The basic thing to look at is the definition of the UserDesc class in
Mailman/UserDesc.py. You should add an additional attribute of this
class for your text. You don't really need to do this, but it is
better for several reasons if all UserDesc instances have at least a
default value for this text.

Then you have to modify the subscribe form in the listinfo.html
template (see
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.048.htp)
to add the input field and modify Mailman/Cgi/subscribe.py to accept
the new text and add it to the UserDesc instance it creates.

You have to modify AddMember() in Mailman/MailList.py to get the text
and pass it to HoldSubscription(), and modify HoldSubscription() in
Mailman/ListAdmin.py to accept the text and add it to the data for the
subscription request it puts in the request.pck file.

Finally, you need to modify Mailman/Cgi/admindb.py to retrieve and
display the text for the admin, plus all the other things I've
overlooked such as the admin notification email, ...

What I'm suggesting is that you aren't going to be able to do this
without becoming proficient at reading, understanding and modifying
Python code. This isn't really that difficult if you already
understand programming, and it's a lot easier than it would be for
some other languages, but it takes some effort and some time.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Sun Apr 23 20:28:43 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 10:28:43 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access /pipermail/
	onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604231017060453fc9339eb@msapiro>
References: <20060423155354.M95168@enabled.com>
	<PC1740200604231017060453fc9339eb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060423182843.M17318@enabled.com>


> 
> >but what I did do was remove all other permissions and put the ownership of
> >the private directory to www to solve the problem.  check_perms works well now.
> >
> ># ls -l
> >total 6
> >drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
> >drwxrwsr-x    2 mailman  mailman  1536 Apr 21 21:49 public
> 
> Actually, regardless of check_perms complaints or lack thereof,
> 
> drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
> 
> is worse than
> 
> drwxrws--x  103 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
> 
> The latter only allows the web browser to search the private 
> directory, while the former allows it to read it as well.
> 
> I'm not 100% certain about this, but I think the o+x on the private
> directory /is/ required in at least some OSs for the symlinks from
> public/* to private/* to work.


Well the sym links appear to work fine from an apache/browser perspective.  I
dont think there has been any problems yet. 

archiving appears to be working properly for both public and private archives.

> 
> Also, the Makefile that creates archives/private has created it with
> o+x for many years.


thanks for the information.  appears that there should be some consistency
between the Makefile and the check_perm's warnings though.

cheers,

Noah


> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 20:33:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:33:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] how can I download my subscriber list
In-Reply-To: <444BC327.1060504@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231133260796e0aaad16@msapiro>

Gary Hall wrote:
>
>Darn. I was hoping there was a utility to "export" the lists. I'll have 
>to get our programmer to set up an account for me I guess.


There is a utility to export lhe list. It's the command line tool
bin/list_members mentioned in the first sentence of the FAQ article
3.62.


>This should be a feature in some upcoming version as it is important to 
>be able to back up your lists. I have two lists: One is 600 and the 
>other is 5,000.


The alternatives if you only have web access are also described in the
FAQ. Both Jim's and my scripts work and have been used on lists with
thousands of members. They require you to install Python, and the
ClientCookie package if Python is pre 2.4, on your personal
computer/workstation, but once that is done, they are simple to use.


>Do you think this is something I should ask the developers 
><mailman-developers at python.org> to consider?


There is already an RFE at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1156871&group_id=103&atid=350103.
If that doesn't describe what you want, you can add a comment or a new
RFE.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 20:49:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:49:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/pipermail/onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <20060423182843.M17318@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231149120140986a1758@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>Well the sym links appear to work fine from an apache/browser perspective.  I
>dont think there has been any problems yet. 
>
>archiving appears to be working properly for both public and private archives.


The issue is not whether one or the other will work or not from the
Apache perspective or the archiving perspective. The issue is which
provides more security for private archives to be secure from public
access via the web server.

The point is that making the web server effective uid ('www' in your
case) the owner of the archives/private/ directory, gives the web
server more access than making the directory o+x.

Ideally, the archives/private directory should be o-rx, but this
apparently is not workable, at least in some configurations, so o+x is
the next best thing,


>> Also, the Makefile that creates archives/private has created it with
>> o+x for many years.
>
>
>thanks for the information.  appears that there should be some consistency
>between the Makefile and the check_perm's warnings though.


You're right about that.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 23 21:06:04 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 12:06:04 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] LDAP-based reg & "one-page" subscription
	selection?
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20060423120557.04e6cea8@127.0.0.1>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231206040234ab812f0e@msapiro>

Matt England wrote:
>
>Do any Mailman-to-LDAP "connectors" exist?


<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1471258&group_id=103&atid=300103>

<http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=871062&group_id=103&atid=300103>


The google search
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman+ldap+member+adaptor>
will turn up some discussions.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Apr 24 00:38:11 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:38:11 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to access
	/pipermail/onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604231149120140986a1758@msapiro>
References: <20060423182843.M17318@enabled.com>
	<PC1740200604231149120140986a1758@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060423223448.M21076@enabled.com>

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 11:49:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >Well the sym links appear to work fine from an apache/browser perspective.  I
> >dont think there has been any problems yet. 
> >
> >archiving appears to be working properly for both public and private archives.
> 
> The issue is not whether one or the other will work or not from the
> Apache perspective or the archiving perspective. The issue is which
> provides more security for private archives to be secure from public
> access via the web server.
> 
> The point is that making the web server effective uid ('www' in your
> case) the owner of the archives/private/ directory, gives the web
> server more access than making the directory o+x.


Hey there Mark,

I hear what you are saying but not completely understanding your analysis. 
The point of the permissions and ownership changes is so the web server has
access to the private directory.  And then to o-x the private directory keeps
local users from accessing the private directories directly and reading
private messages.

Sounds like my permissions and ownership is set properly 
drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private


Cheers,

Noah


> 
> Ideally, the archives/private directory should be o-rx, but this
> apparently is not workable, at least in some configurations, so o+x 
> is the next best thing,
> 
> >> Also, the Makefile that creates archives/private has created it with
> >> o+x for many years.
> >
> >
> >thanks for the information.  appears that there should be some consistency
> >between the Makefile and the check_perm's warnings though.
> 
> You're right about that.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 02:04:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <20060423223448.M21076@enabled.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231704270171eace6ee6@msapiro>

Noah wrote:
>
>I hear what you are saying but not completely understanding your analysis. 
>The point of the permissions and ownership changes is so the web server has
>access to the private directory.  And then to o-x the private directory keeps
>local users from accessing the private directories directly and reading
>private messages.
>
>Sounds like my permissions and ownership is set properly 
>drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private


The point is that with some browsers and web servers (probably not with
Apache) if the web server can read and search the private/ directory,
it can serve pages in the private/ directory via a url like
<http://www.example.com/pipermail/../private/list> where list's
archives are private - i.e., they don't have symlinks in the public/
directory. Thus, you do not want to give the web server access to the
private/ directory itself.

In order to keep private archives private, you must require that they
cannot be accessed directly by the web server.

The theory is that the private directory is inaccessable to the web
server, but the sub directories referenced by the public/ directory
symlinks are not. Thus the web server is prevented from direct access
to archives through a path which includes the private/ directory.

The o-rx on the private directory is primarily to keep the web server
out of private archives, not to keep local users out.

Ideally, public access to the archives would work if the permissions
and ownership on the private/ directory were

1)
drwxrws---  103 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private

This doesn't work in your case (probably not in any case), so the next
best thing is

2)
drwxrws--x  103 mailman  mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private

even though check_perms complains. changing ownership and perms to

3)
drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private

is in fact less secure in terms of what check_perms complains about
than is 2), even though check_perms doesn't complain about 3).

Whether or not 3) or even 2) is subject to serving private archive
pages through cleverly crafted URLs depends on the web server, and it
isn't necessarily an issue in every case (and I don't think it is with
recent Apache, but I'd love to hear from someone who knows more about
this). Thus, your installation may be perfectly fine with 3). But, if
the only reason you prefer 3) to 2) is that check_perms doesn't
complain about 3), that is a check_perms issue. 2) is better - only
slightly better, but better.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From richard at nugnug.com  Mon Apr 24 02:05:38 2006
From: richard at nugnug.com (Richard Petty)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 19:05:38 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Does Not Recognize Mailman Accounts
Message-ID: <444C1652.6000506@nugnug.com>

I'm running a multi-domain email server on a CentOS4 system, configured 
using the instructions found here:

  http://wanderingbarque.com/howtos/mailserver/mailserver.html


I've got one real domain and two virtual domains, with LDAP-based user 
accounts, and it has been working very well for over a year. I've been 
VERY happy with this setup:

  realdomain.com
  virtualdomain1.com
  virtualdomain2.com


I decided to support maillist activities on virtualdomain1. I read all 
the user docs and set everything up as closely to the instructions as I 
could. My Mailman web interface seems to work fine.

I wanted each domain to be able host its own Mailman but my research 
indicates that probably won't happen. I can live with that. So, I 
created a maillist using a virtual domain's name for the list name and 
the real domain name for the domain.

The list email address looks like this:  virtualdomain1 at realdomain.com


I had no problems configuring the list using the web interface. I set 
myself up as the list administrator and placed a single email address 
into the user list for the testing phase.

I received the expected admin welcome message from Mailman and the 
expected user welcome message from Mailman, however, when I sent a 
message to the list I get an "unknown account"-type message from Postfix.

Here are the relevant statements from Postfix's main.cf file:

  virtual_alias_maps = ldap:aliases,      hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
  alias_maps         = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases


BTW, those file paths for the Mailman map files are correct. I cat'ed 
them out and the content seems reasonable:


The Mailman "alias" file contains:

  # STANZA START: virtualdomain1
  # CREATED: Sun Apr 23 17:28:47 2006
  virtualdomain1:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe 
virtualdomain1"
  virtualdomain1-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman 
unsubscribe virtualdomain1"
  # STANZA END: virtualdomain1
 
  # STANZA START: mailman
  # CREATED: Sun Apr 23 17:28:48 2006
  mailman:             "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman post mailman"
  mailman-admin:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman admin mailman"
  mailman-bounces:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman bounces mailman"
  mailman-confirm:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman confirm mailman"
  mailman-join:        "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman join mailman"
  mailman-leave:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman leave mailman"
  mailman-owner:       "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman"
  mailman-request:     "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman request mailman"
  mailman-subscribe:   "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman subscribe mailman"
  mailman-unsubscribe: "|/usr/lib/mailman/mail/mailman unsubscribe mailman"
  # STANZA END: mailman


The Mailman "virtual-mailman" contains:

  # STANZA START: virtualdomain1
  # CREATED: Sun Apr 23 17:28:47 2006
  virtualdomain1 at realdomain.com              virtualdomain1
  virtualdomain1-admin at realdomain.com        virtualdomain1-admin
  virtualdomain1-bounces at realdomain.com      virtualdomain1-bounces
  virtualdomain1-confirm at realdomain.com      virtualdomain1-confirm
  virtualdomain1-join at realdomain.com         virtualdomain1-join
  virtualdomain1-leave at realdomain.com        virtualdomain1-leave
  virtualdomain1-owner at realdomain.com        virtualdomain1-owner
  virtualdomain1-request at realdomain.com      virtualdomain1-request
  virtualdomain1-subscribe at realdomain.com    virtualdomain1-subscribe
  virtualdomain1-unsubscribe at realdomain.com  virtualdomain1-unsubscribe
  # STANZA END: virtualdomain1
 
  # STANZA START: mailman
  # CREATED: Sun Apr 23 17:28:48 2006
  mailman at realdomain.com              mailman
  mailman-admin at realdomain.com        mailman-admin
  mailman-bounces at realdomain.com      mailman-bounces
  mailman-confirm at realdomain.com      mailman-confirm
  mailman-join at realdomain.com         mailman-join
  mailman-leave at realdomain.com        mailman-leave
  mailman-owner at realdomain.com        mailman-owner
  mailman-request at realdomain.com      mailman-request
  mailman-subscribe at realdomain.com    mailman-subscribe
  mailman-unsubscribe at realdomain.com  mailman-unsubscribe
  # STANZA END: mailman


Here are the relevant statements from Mailman's mm_cfg.py file:

  MTA = 'Postfix'
  DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'realdomain.com'
  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'realdomain.com'

  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 
['virtualdomain1.com','virtualdomain2.com']


Does anyone detect my setup error? Why does Postfix fail to recognize 
Mailmain's accounts?

(Again, Postfix handles its own virtual mail functions just fine. Also, 
I use "realdomain.com" for both my email host and web host addresses. 
Apache is configured to handle the "www." part.)


--Richard
Austin, Texas


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 02:23:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:23:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Does Not Recognize Mailman Accounts
In-Reply-To: <444C1652.6000506@nugnug.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604231723320546ab813062@msapiro>

Richard Petty wrote:
>
>I received the expected admin welcome message from Mailman and the 
>expected user welcome message from Mailman, however, when I sent a 
>message to the list I get an "unknown account"-type message from Postfix.
>
>Here are the relevant statements from Postfix's main.cf file:
>
>  virtual_alias_maps = ldap:aliases,      hash:/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman
>  alias_maps         = hash:/etc/aliases, hash:/etc/mailman/aliases
>
>
>BTW, those file paths for the Mailman map files are correct. I cat'ed 
>them out and the content seems reasonable:


And are there /etc/mailman/virtual-mailman.db and
/etc/mailman/aliases.db files created by Postfix's postmap and
postalias commands? The defaults for these are

POSTFIX_ALIAS_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postalias'
POSTFIX_MAP_CMD = '/usr/sbin/postmap'

and if those are correct, the list create process should run them
automatically after updating the virtual-mailman and aliases files.


<snip>
>Here are the relevant statements from Mailman's mm_cfg.py file:
>
>  MTA = 'Postfix'
>  DEFAULT_URL_HOST   = 'realdomain.com'
>  DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'realdomain.com'
>
>  add_virtualhost(DEFAULT_URL_HOST, DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST)
>  POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS = 
>['virtualdomain1.com','virtualdomain2.com']


If all your lists are in the realdomain.com domain as are the first
two, you aren't really using Postfix virtual domains for Mailman and I
think you could do without POSTFIX_STYLE_VIRTUAL_DOMAINS and
/etc/mailman/virtual-mailman, but I think it should work as you have
it if the *.db files have been updated.

Caveat - I'm far from a Postfix expert.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From admin2 at enabled.com  Mon Apr 24 03:06:12 2006
From: admin2 at enabled.com (Noah)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:06:12 -0800
Subject: [Mailman-Users] You don't have permission to
	access/pipermail/onthis server.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604231704270171eace6ee6@msapiro>
References: <20060423223448.M21076@enabled.com>
	<PC1740200604231704270171eace6ee6@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060424010539.M64887@enabled.com>

On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 17:04:27 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote
> Noah wrote:
> >
> >I hear what you are saying but not completely understanding your analysis. 
> >The point of the permissions and ownership changes is so the web server has
> >access to the private directory.  And then to o-x the private directory keeps
> >local users from accessing the private directories directly and reading
> >private messages.
> >
> >Sounds like my permissions and ownership is set properly 
> >drwxrws---  103 www      mailman  2560 Apr 21 21:49 private
> 
> The point is that with some browsers and web servers (probably not with
> Apache) if the web server can read and search the private/ directory,
> it can serve pages in the private/ directory via a url like
> <http://www.example.com/pipermail/../private/list> where list's
> archives are private - i.e., they don't have symlinks in the public/
> directory. Thus, you do not want to give the web server access to the
> private/ directory itself.



okay got it - that makes sense.

thanks,

Noah




From mandtprice at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 19:48:34 2006
From: mandtprice at gmail.com (Matthew Price)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:48:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
Message-ID: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>

I am trying to find some free software that will allow me to issue an
email newsletter for year long  road trip that I will be taking.  I
have about 200 people that are interested in receiving periodic
updates by email.  I have a gmail address reserved for this purpose
and would LOVE to use their SMTP service to issue these updates while
on the road with my laptop.

I looked through the docs and list archives by I couldn't find any
answer to a few questions.  Can mailman be configured to connect and
authenticate to a remote, secure SMTP server rather than an unsecured
local one?  This will be a read-only list that I am setting up, so a
list enging could concievable run from my laptop while connected to a
hotspot and the let any replies come back to the gmail address rather
than being collected and redistributed though mailman.

I wrote a perl script years ago to do something similar, but I don't
have the time now to reproduce it.  Is there some other piece of
software I could run instead that would remail a single message to a
list of addresses?  I know that sounds like a spam engine, but the
specific functionality I need is the ability to make a TLS connection
to the gmail smtp server and not fire them off myself without any smtp
server.

Thanks for any help,
Matthew


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 19:55:00 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:55:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
In-Reply-To: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604241055t5fc853b1se9c436ee84f90df9@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/24/06, Matthew Price <mandtprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> list of addresses?  I know that sounds like a spam engine, but the
> specific functionality I need is the ability to make a TLS connection
> to the gmail smtp server and not fire them off myself without any smtp
> server.
Mailman is probably overkill for what you need, since its main purpose
is managing list memberships and (I guess) maintaining archives. But
if the engine is running off your laptop, the latter doesn't do you
any good, and not much good for the former- users won't receive timely
feedback to emailed requests, and the web interface won't be
available.

So, a small script will probably do what you want.
Or, keep the list of addresses in a text file, and paste them into the
'To:' field each time.

That said, gmail itself supports 'groups' (refer to the 'Contacts'
link in the web interface), and any e-mail client worh its salt ought
to have some sort of rudimentary group functionality.

- Patrick Bogen


From ostonica at shaw.ca  Mon Apr 24 20:40:13 2006
From: ostonica at shaw.ca (Jim Swift)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 11:40:13 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation messages
In-Reply-To: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <444D1B8D.90108@shaw.ca>

Whenever, as admin, I change an subscriber's email address, a confirmation 
message is sent to the new email address and the change is not activated 
until the subscriber confirms.

Is there any way to turn off the sending of this confirmation message. Such 
messages are not sent out when I initially entered the email addresses in 
mass subscribe.

Many thanks

Jim Swift


From wash at wananchi.com  Mon Apr 24 21:02:25 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:02:25 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
Message-ID: <20060424190225.GA52449@ns2.wananchi.com>


Hello List-ers,

Today, my boss, in one of his crazy thoughts, asked me if it's possible
(with Mailman or other MLM) to have a mailing list that would have the
following restrictions:

1. The list will be archived
2. The list admin can search all archives
3. A list member is only allowed to search through the archives, but
   can only view what s/he posted, not what other members posted!

Now, if you guys don't have a boss whose imagination is beyond what has
been done already, you need to work for my boss, I swear ;)

I have been thinking about this requirement the whole day. This guy 
happens to me my internal client also.

Does anyone know someone who has thought along these angles and 
implemented the same with Mailman, or other software? I'd be happy to
RTFM if there is one lying somewhere.


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 21:23:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:23:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20060424190225.GA52449@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042412231803596349fb99@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>Today, my boss, in one of his crazy thoughts, asked me if it's possible
>(with Mailman or other MLM) to have a mailing list that would have the
>following restrictions:
>
>1. The list will be archived
>2. The list admin can search all archives
>3. A list member is only allowed to search through the archives, but
>   can only view what s/he posted, not what other members posted!


You definitely can't do this with the existing Mailman pipermail
archives. It probably is possible to modify Mailman/Cgi/private.py to
restrict viewing such that if the user has authorized as a member
rather than as an admin, the user can only retrieve pages for which
she/he is the author. I don't know of any attempts to do this with
pipermail or any external archiver.

You didn't ask for criticism of the idea itself so I won't offer any.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       Any clod can have the facts;
San Francisco Bay Area, California    having opinions is an art. -
                                      C. McCabe, The Fearless Spectator


From wash at wananchi.com  Mon Apr 24 21:28:43 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:28:43 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042412231803596349fb99@msapiro>
References: <20060424190225.GA52449@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<PC17402006042412231803596349fb99@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060424192843.GB52449@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 24/04/06 12:23 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
| Odhiambo Washington wrote:
| >
| >Today, my boss, in one of his crazy thoughts, asked me if it's possible
| >(with Mailman or other MLM) to have a mailing list that would have the
| >following restrictions:
| >
| >1. The list will be archived
| >2. The list admin can search all archives
| >3. A list member is only allowed to search through the archives, but
| >   can only view what s/he posted, not what other members posted!
| 
| 
| You definitely can't do this with the existing Mailman pipermail
| archives. It probably is possible to modify Mailman/Cgi/private.py to
| restrict viewing such that if the user has authorized as a member
| rather than as an admin, the user can only retrieve pages for which
| she/he is the author. I don't know of any attempts to do this with
| pipermail or any external archiver.

Fine, so it's doable, only if he commissions the work and funds it, yes? 
;-)


| You didn't ask for criticism of the idea itself so I won't offer any.

Since I did not even imagine the possibility.

I'd be happy, however, to hear you "critique" the idea. Thanks.


        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From michael at thehensleys.com  Mon Apr 24 22:13:45 2006
From: michael at thehensleys.com (Michael D. Hensley)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:13:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages are addressed to "mylist" rather than to
	"subscriber"
Message-ID: <444CCF09.10069.EA5594@michael.thehensleys.com>

I have just configured mailman on my RedHat Linux AS v4 server. The first 
problem I'd like to address is:

Messages sent to the list arrive at the subscribers mailbox with a "To:" 
field of, for example, mylist at example.com rather than the subscribers email 
address.

I've poked at the configuration with a sharp stick for a while, but I can't 
find anything that seems to control this.

Can anyone offer a hint where I might have screwed it up, and how to fix it?

Thanks!



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 22:44:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:44:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation messages
In-Reply-To: <444D1B8D.90108@shaw.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604241344510296534f84bb@msapiro>

Jim Swift wrote:

>Whenever, as admin, I change an subscriber's email address, a confirmation 
>message is sent to the new email address and the change is not activated 
>until the subscriber confirms.
>
>Is there any way to turn off the sending of this confirmation message. Such 
>messages are not sent out when I initially entered the email addresses in 
>mass subscribe.


There are work arounds, but there's no simple way for an admin to
change a members address without confirmation.

The work arounds are:

If you have command line access to the Mailman installation, you can
use bin/withlist and call the
Mailman.MailList.ApprovedChangeMemberAddress() method directly or
create a withlist script to do it.

As a list admin without command line access, you have to go to the
member's options page and note all the settings, then use mass remove
to remove the old address and mass subscribe to add the new one and
then go to the new options page and restore the old settings.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 22:50:31 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 13:50:31 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages are addressed to "mylist" rather than
	to"subscriber"
In-Reply-To: <444CCF09.10069.EA5594@michael.thehensleys.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604241350310500e14f7033@msapiro>

Michael D. Hensley wrote:
>
>Messages sent to the list arrive at the subscribers mailbox with a "To:" 
>field of, for example, mylist at example.com rather than the subscribers email 
>address.
>
>I've poked at the configuration with a sharp stick for a while, but I can't 
>find anything that seems to control this.


You need to put

OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes

in mm_cfg.py. Then you will see the personalize options on the
Non-digest options page and you can set Full which is what you want.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Mon Apr 24 23:28:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 14:28:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <20060424192843.GB52449@ns2.wananchi.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604241428210468534f8549@msapiro>

Odhiambo Washington wrote:
>
>Fine, so it's doable, only if he commissions the work and funds it, yes? 
>;-)


Right.


>| You didn't ask for criticism of the idea itself so I won't offer any.
>
>Since I did not even imagine the possibility.
>
>I'd be happy, however, to hear you "critique" the idea. Thanks.


My first reaction is "why would you want to do that!". I still can't
figure that out.

Then my questions are "what would the purpose of this archive be?" and
"in what way would members find it useful?"

I suspect one of two things would happen. Either no one is interested
in archives anyway so it wouldn't make any difference, or people do
want archives in which case, people being resourceful, you would
quickly see two things happen.

Every post in a thread will quote the entire thread to that point
because everyone knows that 'context' can't be found in the archives,
and those who are really interested in having access to archives will
reply to every thread with nothing but a quote of the thread so that
they can have access to the thread in the archive.

I would still like to know what 'problem' is being solved by this idea
as I can't think of one.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From d.drury at gmail.com  Mon Apr 24 23:37:39 2006
From: d.drury at gmail.com (Duncan Drury)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 22:37:39 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Virtual Mailbox Domains
Message-ID: <004201c667e7$4fd010e0$0b00a8c0@xpc>

I have postfix set up on FreeBSD with virtual mailbox domains (i.e. mailboxes don't map to freeBSD accounts).  All the documentation I have found about Mailman talks about virtual alias domains.  I haven't been able to find any detailed information on how mailman should be set up in such circumstances despite much googling.

So I am trying to set up virtual alias domains for mailman to handle alongside the existing virtual mailbox domains.  I'm asking on the Postfix mailing list if this is wise (so far not sure if it will work at all!).  I was wondering if anyone here had any experience getting mailman working with virtual mailbox domains and would be able to pass on any wisdom.

Cheers,

Duncan



From b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov  Mon Apr 24 23:27:47 2006
From: b19141 at britaine.ctd.anl.gov (Barry Finkel)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:27:47 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Question about Configure --with-var-prefix=dir
Message-ID: <200604242127.k3OLRluN028152@britaine.ctd.anl.gov>

I am starting testing of mailman to see if it fits our needs and to
see how it compares to other mailing list manangement packages.
I want to configure my test system with the installation on a disk
local to the Solaris 10 system, but I want the mutable data on a
shared file system (in my case AFS).

The installation instructions "2.2 Create the installation directory"
has

    % cd $prefix
    % chgrp mailman .
    % chmod a+rx,g+ws .

and "3.1 Run configure" has

     --with-var-prefix=dir
         Store mutable data under dir instead of under the $prefix or
         $exec_prefix. Examples of such data include the list archives
         and list settings database.

There is nothing in the instructions to do step 2.2 in the "mutable"
directory, but the configure script stops if the directory is not
set up per section 2.2.  

The AFS (Andrew File System) is different than a regular Unix file
system in that it uses ACLs for permission.  Does anyone have
any experience in placing the mutable data in AFS?  Thanks.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry S. Finkel
Computing and Information Systems Division
Argonne National Laboratory          Phone:    +1 (630) 252-7277
9700 South Cass Avenue               Facsimile:+1 (630) 252-4601
Building 222, Room D209              Internet: BSFinkel at anl.gov
Argonne, IL   60439-4828             IBMMAIL:  I1004994



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Tue Apr 25 01:12:35 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:12:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604241428210468534f8549@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C072A973.C1D9%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/24/06 2:28 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> Then my questions are "what would the purpose of this archive be?" and
> "in what way would members find it useful?"

A crutch for users who don't archive their own outgoing mail is the only
thing which comes quickly to mind.

  --John




From mailman at thehensleys.com  Tue Apr 25 01:46:43 2006
From: mailman at thehensleys.com (Michael D. Hensley)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:46:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Messages are addressed to "mylist" rather than
	to"subscriber"
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604241350310500e14f7033@msapiro>
References: <444CCF09.10069.EA5594@michael.thehensleys.com>
Message-ID: <444D00F3.32725.1AD4D45@mailman.thehensleys.com>

I asked:

>Messages sent to the list arrive at the subscribers mailbox with a "To:" 
>field of, for example, mylist at example.com rather than the subscribers email 
>address.

Mark Sapiro responded:
 
> You need to put
> 
> OWNERS_CAN_ENABLE_PERSONALIZATION = Yes
> 
> in mm_cfg.py. Then you will see the personalize options on the
> Non-digest options page and you can set Full which is what you want.

Thanks! That worked perfectly!


From tmz at pobox.com  Tue Apr 25 03:28:05 2006
From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 21:28:05 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation messages
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604241344510296534f84bb@msapiro>
References: <444D1B8D.90108@shaw.ca> <PC1740200604241344510296534f84bb@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060425012805.GA24783@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> There are work arounds, but there's no simple way for an admin to
> change a members address without confirmation.
> 
> The work arounds are:
> 
> If you have command line access to the Mailman installation, you can
> use bin/withlist and call the
> Mailman.MailList.ApprovedChangeMemberAddress() method directly or
> create a withlist script to do it.

Another method for those with command line access is to use
clone_member.  I had to do this recently and it went like this:

    clone_member -r -l listname oldaddress newaddress

The -r option removes the old address after it's been cloned.  Very
handy and quite possibly easier than writing a withlist script, though
not worth as many sysadmin hipness points. :)

- -- 
Todd        OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xD654075A | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
======================================================================
Tact is just a mutual agreement to be full of shit
    -- Spider Robinson

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.3 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: When crypto is outlawed bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.

iG0EARECAC0FAkRNeyUmGGh0dHA6Ly93d3cucG9ib3guY29tL350bXovcGdwL3Rt
ei5hc2MACgkQuv+09NZUB1rhfgCg7xeFp+QabhvyHIoFTBvxP7YiW9AAoNkc8F74
yz719rV9wEwGtb0QK20t
=qqYR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 25 08:15:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 23:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Confirmation messages
In-Reply-To: <20060425012805.GA24783@psilocybe.teonanacatl.org>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042423150609216078f1bf@msapiro>

Todd Zullinger wrote:
>
>Another method for those with command line access is to use
>clone_member.  I had to do this recently and it went like this:
>
>    clone_member -r -l listname oldaddress newaddress
>
>The -r option removes the old address after it's been cloned.  Very
>handy and quite possibly easier than writing a withlist script, though
>not worth as many sysadmin hipness points. :)

Todd is correct. clone_member is exactly the right command line tool
for changing a member's address. Some times we old bit fiddlers are
too quick to reach for the low level and/or arcane tools to the point
of totally overlooking better/more obvious ones.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 16:20:58 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:20:58 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
In-Reply-To: <e63dd3500604241311w97e91b1xd3ac67fd2067b200@mail.gmail.com>
References: <e63dd3500604241048i28eadb9ev4ce5409fd6463b26@mail.gmail.com>
	<6fbe3da00604241055t5fc853b1se9c436ee84f90df9@mail.gmail.com>
	<e63dd3500604241311w97e91b1xd3ac67fd2067b200@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604250720u3eb7437bj8d0fe884c872ee9@mail.gmail.com>

I think you should be able to do something with BCCs, but I'm not
sure. So, forwarded to list...

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Matthew Price <mandtprice at gmail.com>
Date: Apr 24, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
To: Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com>


The one mailing list feature that I absolutely need is the ability to
make each message appear to be individually sent; I don't want every
subscriber to see the addresses of every other subscriber.  I already
checked that functionality in gmail and its group feature just pastes
the associated addresses into the recipients' list.

Matthew

On 4/24/06, Patrick Bogen <pdbogen at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 4/24/06, Matthew Price <mandtprice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > list of addresses?  I know that sounds like a spam engine, but the
> > specific functionality I need is the ability to make a TLS connection
> > to the gmail smtp server and not fire them off myself without any smtp
> > server.
> Mailman is probably overkill for what you need, since its main purpose
> is managing list memberships and (I guess) maintaining archives. But
> if the engine is running off your laptop, the latter doesn't do you
> any good, and not much good for the former- users won't receive timely
> feedback to emailed requests, and the web interface won't be
> available.
>
> So, a small script will probably do what you want.
> Or, keep the list of addresses in a text file, and paste them into the
> 'To:' field each time.
>
> That said, gmail itself supports 'groups' (refer to the 'Contacts'
> link in the web interface), and any e-mail client worh its salt ought
> to have some sort of rudimentary group functionality.
>
> - Patrick Bogen
>


--
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course
others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


--
- Patrick Bogen


From andyk at spunge.org  Tue Apr 25 16:57:15 2006
From: andyk at spunge.org (Andy)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:57:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Mailman web pages appear.
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0604250956530.6361@chi.spunge.org>

> Andy wrote:
> >
> >After installing and running Mailman no Mailman web page is visible (no list
> >has been created yet, though).
> >What can be wrong?
>
> You can't run Mailman without at least the site list (mailman).
> mailmanctl won't start.
>
> However, this is not your problem as the web interface doesn't require
> mailmanctl and the qrunners to be running.
>
> See <http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

Thanks for your reply. The admin tried everything he could and it still does
not work. He has virtual hosts, and he suspects that perhaps Mailman cannot
work with virtual hosts, only with proper WWW servers.
Can you please confirm?

Andy





From cpz at tuunq.com  Tue Apr 25 17:46:58 2006
From: cpz at tuunq.com (Carl Zwanzig)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 08:46:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Mailman web pages appear.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0604250956530.6361@chi.spunge.org> from Andy at
	"Apr 25, 2006 09:57:15 am"
Message-ID: <20060425154658.7A3BA7AE@mail.tuunq.com>

In a flurry of recycled electrons, Andy wrote:

> Thanks for your reply. The admin tried everything he could and it still does
> not work. He has virtual hosts, and he suspects that perhaps Mailman cannot
> work with virtual hosts, only with proper WWW servers.
> Can you please confirm?

What is a "virtual host" v. a "proper WWW server"?  I have mailman and
apache nicely doing lists for a couple of different domains on one apache 
and one mailman instance.   [Sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread.]

I must wonder if this admin isn't to clear on the concepts...

z!


From jamesd at jml.net  Tue Apr 25 18:16:08 2006
From: jamesd at jml.net (James Davis)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:16:08 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems Installing from SVN
Message-ID: <444E4B48.6050500@jml.net>

I'm looking to tweak the source of my mailman installation a little so
decided to install from source onto my Debian system using the
subversion repository. This is the first time I've installed mailman
from source, usually I just rely upon the Debian packages.

Everything installed without a problem, so good so far. But when I go to
view the webpages I get the following error in my browser.

**
Bug in Mailman version 2.2.0a0

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited,
but the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs.
**

If I try and start mailman's qrunner I get the following errors.

**
cressida:/usr/local/mailman# ./scripts/mailman start
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/local/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 126, in ?
    loginit.initialize()
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/loginit.py", line 94, in initialize
    handler = ReopenableFileHandler(os.path.join(mm_cfg.LOG_DIR, logger))
  File "/usr/local/mailman/Mailman/loginit.py", line 43, in __init__
    logging.FileHandler.__init__(self, filename, mode, encoding)
TypeError: __init__() takes at most 3 arguments (4 given)
**

Any ideas? I'm using Python 2.3.5.

Thanks,

James


From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 25 19:04:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:04:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd:  Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
In-Reply-To: <6fbe3da00604250720u3eb7437bj8d0fe884c872ee9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042510042708288d37c0f7@msapiro>

Matthew Price wrote:
>
>The one mailing list feature that I absolutely need is the ability to
>make each message appear to be individually sent; I don't want every
>subscriber to see the addresses of every other subscriber.  I already
>checked that functionality in gmail and its group feature just pastes
>the associated addresses into the recipients' list.


If you are only trying to protect the privacy of the list and not the
fact that there is a list involved, check out
<http://groups.yahoo.com/>, <http://groups.google.com/> or
<http://lists.topica.com/>. For various reasons, I can't really
recommend Topica and I have no list management experience with the
others.

If you are trying to make each recipient's message look like a personal
message addressed to the recipient, then perhaps Mailman on your
laptop could be a solution, but there are potential stumbling blocks.

In your OP, you asked if Mailman can use Gmail's secure SMTP service
for outgoing mail. Mailman itself doesn't support SSL and I don't know
anything about adding this layer between Mailman and the outside.

There is a post at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047082.html>
that gives a patch for adding user/password smtp authentication to
Mailman's outgoing SMTP, but this is not the same thing.

Also, there are issues with using a remote outgoing SMTP server "on the
road". You will undoubtedly encounter in your travels, public access
points that redirect all port 25 (and perhaps secure smtp ports too)
connects to their own SMTP server, thus thwarting your attempts to
reach your preferred server.

Putting your own outgoing SMTP server on your laptop may help, but
there are issues like the above here too, as well as issues with the
recipient's server possibly not liking the way your server identifies
itself or the fact that its claimed identity doesn't match its current
IP.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From mandtprice at gmail.com  Tue Apr 25 19:17:14 2006
From: mandtprice at gmail.com (Matthew Price)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:17:14 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042510042708288d37c0f7@msapiro>
References: <6fbe3da00604250720u3eb7437bj8d0fe884c872ee9@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006042510042708288d37c0f7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <e63dd3500604251017g453d42c9jac2b727d7f6754c7@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks to you and Patrick both for your time on this request.

The need to be able to connect to a remote, tls speaking MTA has been
eliminated by a little program called ssmtp that I found in the debian
repository.  All it does is impersonate the sendmail binary on the
client end while piping the message to 'real' smtp server over tcp/ip.
 It supports tla and authentication so that is a relief.  The only
unknow is speed, since ssmtp doesn't do any spooling it could be quite
a wait if one has to wait for 200 individual SMTP transactions to
process.

I keep poking at mailman since the problem got a whole lot easier
after I found this program.

Thanks again for your time.

On 4/25/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Matthew Price wrote:
> >
> >The one mailing list feature that I absolutely need is the ability to
> >make each message appear to be individually sent; I don't want every
> >subscriber to see the addresses of every other subscriber.  I already
> >checked that functionality in gmail and its group feature just pastes
> >the associated addresses into the recipients' list.
>
>
> If you are only trying to protect the privacy of the list and not the
> fact that there is a list involved, check out
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/>, <http://groups.google.com/> or
> <http://lists.topica.com/>. For various reasons, I can't really
> recommend Topica and I have no list management experience with the
> others.
>
> If you are trying to make each recipient's message look like a personal
> message addressed to the recipient, then perhaps Mailman on your
> laptop could be a solution, but there are potential stumbling blocks.
>
> In your OP, you asked if Mailman can use Gmail's secure SMTP service
> for outgoing mail. Mailman itself doesn't support SSL and I don't know
> anything about adding this layer between Mailman and the outside.
>
> There is a post at
> <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-October/047082.html>
> that gives a patch for adding user/password smtp authentication to
> Mailman's outgoing SMTP, but this is not the same thing.
>
> Also, there are issues with using a remote outgoing SMTP server "on the
> road". You will undoubtedly encounter in your travels, public access
> points that redirect all port 25 (and perhaps secure smtp ports too)
> connects to their own SMTP server, thus thwarting your attempts to
> reach your preferred server.
>
> Putting your own outgoing SMTP server on your laptop may help, but
> there are issues like the above here too, as well as issues with the
> recipient's server possibly not liking the way your server identifies
> itself or the fact that its claimed identity doesn't match its current
> IP.
>
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
>
>


--
Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of
chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course
others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


From amattina at layer8group.com  Tue Apr 25 19:05:52 2006
From: amattina at layer8group.com (Adam Mattina)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:05:52 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Virtual Mailbox Domains
Message-ID: <A495339608834D47B69C1DC6BFD5EB2A12B4CA@one.layer8group.local>

Duncan,
I'm not sure if I understand what the difference is between "virtual
email domains" and "virtual alias domains" but I have setup; and am
running the following:

Linux 2.6/Apache2/Postfix/mySQL/vmailAdmin/mailman using maildrop to
deliver mail.

mySQL handles the domains on the box and individual user account
information.  This is managed by vmailAdmin.

Mailman is setup to run on any of the domains I setup on the box and can
be accessed via: mailman.domain1.com, mailman.domain2.com, etc. 

The biggest PIA was to get the Postfix config file correct.  I had to
tell postfix where everything was and since half of my mail system is in
a DB (individual users and their info) and the other half in mailman's
files(mailing list information)...it was tricky. 

Post your questions to the list and I'll do my best to advise if you
need it.  I'm sure others can help as well and it took me a while to get
working properly.  It's a non-trivial setup and could be a rocky ride if
it's your first time.

-Adam
"You never forget your first time."

-----Original Message-----
From: mailman-users-bounces+amattina=layer8group.com at python.org
[mailto:mailman-users-bounces+amattina=layer8group.com at python.org] On
Behalf Of Duncan Drury
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 5:38 PM
To: mailman-users at python.org
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Postfix Virtual Mailbox Domains

I have postfix set up on FreeBSD with virtual mailbox domains (i.e.
mailboxes don't map to freeBSD accounts).  All the documentation I have
found about Mailman talks about virtual alias domains.  I haven't been
able to find any detailed information on how mailman should be set up in
such circumstances despite much googling.

So I am trying to set up virtual alias domains for mailman to handle
alongside the existing virtual mailbox domains.  I'm asking on the
Postfix mailing list if this is wise (so far not sure if it will work at
all!).  I was wondering if anyone here had any experience getting
mailman working with virtual mailbox domains and would be able to pass
on any wisdom.

Cheers,

Duncan

------------------------------------------------------
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From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 25 19:33:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:33:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems Installing from SVN
In-Reply-To: <444E4B48.6050500@jml.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251033380812e49b8952@msapiro>

James Davis wrote:

>I'm looking to tweak the source of my mailman installation a little so
>decided to install from source onto my Debian system using the
>subversion repository. This is the first time I've installed mailman
>from source, usually I just rely upon the Debian packages.
>
>Everything installed without a problem, so good so far. But when I go to
>view the webpages I get the following error in my browser.

The subversion trunk is not currently usable. It is undergoing a major
change in "logging" which is incomplete, plus other changes. I'm a bit
confused by the errors you report since the web page bug that I'm
aware of was fixed in subversion before the ReopenableFileHandler
class was added to loginit.py. What is in the error log from the web
page bug?

If you want to install from source, the best bet is to get the 2.1.8
tarball. You can also get the subversion Release_2_1-maint branch, but
with the exception of the addition of the Vietnamese translation, this
is the same as 2.1.8.


>Any ideas? I'm using Python 2.3.5.


Python 2.3 will be the minimum for Mailman 2.2, so you should be OK
there.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 25 19:43:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:43:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Fwd: Using gmail SMTP and mailman together
In-Reply-To: <e63dd3500604251017g453d42c9jac2b727d7f6754c7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042510435800465032e328@msapiro>

Matthew Price wrote:
>
>The need to be able to connect to a remote, tls speaking MTA has been
>eliminated by a little program called ssmtp that I found in the debian
>repository.  All it does is impersonate the sendmail binary on the
>client end while piping the message to 'real' smtp server over tcp/ip.
> It supports tla and authentication so that is a relief.  The only
>unknow is speed, since ssmtp doesn't do any spooling it could be quite
>a wait if one has to wait for 200 individual SMTP transactions to
>process.

The number of SMTP transactions to send to 200 members depends on
various Mailman settings. If the list is not personalized or VERPed,
the default is to send one transaction with 200 (up to 500 per
transaction) recipients. With personalization or VERP like delivery,
there will be one transaction per recipient.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Tue Apr 25 21:45:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 12:45:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Problems Installing from SVN
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604251033380812e49b8952@msapiro>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042512455103756636d80a@msapiro>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
>
>I'm a bit
>confused by the errors you report since the web page bug that I'm
>aware of was fixed in subversion before the ReopenableFileHandler
>class was added to loginit.py. What is in the error log from the web
>page bug?


Never mind!

The web page bug is new, and it's the same as the mailmanctl bug.

The issue is that in mailman.loginit.py, the call to
logging.FileHandler.__init__() does not accept the 'encoding'
argument. It needs to be just

        logging.FileHandler.__init__(self, filename, mode)

but if you fix that, you'll just run into other problems later. As I
said in my prior reply, the subversion trunk just isn't useable yet.
Use the Release_2_1-maint branch or the 2.1.8 tarball.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan




From netcfs at shaw.ca  Tue Apr 25 22:10:50 2006
From: netcfs at shaw.ca (Yves Bajard)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 13:10:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious problem
Message-ID: <1145995850.24481.277.camel@localhost>

I hav a serious problem.

For one of the 11 mailing lists I host and manage as list owner, when
clicking on URL of the admin page, I get directly into it without having
to go through the password filter.

I noticed that people who look for that list on Google can also access
directly the admin page of that list without being blocked by the
password filter.

Anybody could tell me how to correct that flaw? I am not the webmaster
of my websites, but have contracted it to a local server in my city.

Thanks in advance

Yves Bajard 



From wash at wananchi.com  Tue Apr 25 19:00:40 2006
From: wash at wananchi.com (Odhiambo Washington)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:00:40 +0300
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can this be done with Mailman?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604241428210468534f8549@msapiro>
References: <20060424192843.GB52449@ns2.wananchi.com>
	<PC1740200604241428210468534f8549@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060425170040.GL6926@ns2.wananchi.com>

* On 24/04/06 14:28 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
| Odhiambo Washington wrote:
| >
| >Fine, so it's doable, only if he commissions the work and funds it, yes? 
| >;-)
| 
| 
| Right.
| 
| 
| >| You didn't ask for criticism of the idea itself so I won't offer any.
| >
| >Since I did not even imagine the possibility.
| >
| >I'd be happy, however, to hear you "critique" the idea. Thanks.
| 
| 
| My first reaction is "why would you want to do that!". I still can't
| figure that out.

As sure as day follows night, I did ask myself first, then my boss the
question! Funnily enough, he had an answer, which he was passionate at
explaining, but which was so hard for me to buy, even at a discounted
rate ;)


| Then my questions are "what would the purpose of this archive be?" and
| "in what way would members find it useful?"

Two questions without answers so far, but I am going to ask him again, 
then revert back to you. Perhaps he has a point.


| I suspect one of two things would happen. Either no one is interested
| in archives anyway so it wouldn't make any difference, or people do
| want archives in which case, people being resourceful, you would
| quickly see two things happen.

I did not hear him say there is need for the archives by anyone else 
except that this was coming in in his imagination.


| Every post in a thread will quote the entire thread to that point
| because everyone knows that 'context' can't be found in the archives,
| and those who are really interested in having access to archives will
| reply to every thread with nothing but a quote of the thread so that
| they can have access to the thread in the archive.

Which beats the limitations he perceived.


| I would still like to know what 'problem' is being solved by this idea
| as I can't think of one.

You will know in a few hours, I hope. Thanks for your time.



        cheers
       - wash 
+----------------------------------+-----------------------------------------+
Odhiambo Washington            		. WANANCHI ONLINE LTD (Nairobi, KE)  |
wash () WANANCHI ! com			. 1ere Etage, Loita Hse, Loita St.,  |
GSM: (+254) 722 743 223			. # 10286, 00100 NAIROBI             |
GSM: (+254) 733 744 121			. (+254) 020 313 985 - 9             |
+---------------------------------+------------------------------------------+
"Oh My God! They killed init! You Bastards!"  
						 --from a /. post


From wtallman at olypen.com  Tue Apr 25 23:44:14 2006
From: wtallman at olypen.com (William D. Tallman)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 14:44:14 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question(s).
Message-ID: <20060425214414.GB6809@olypen.com>

I'm subscribed here to get some answers about email list software in
general, and hopefully some continuing questions about Mailman in
particular.  So I may be gone shortly, depending on what I discover
here.

I am considering setting up an email list server for possibly more than
one local email discussion list.  But I'm not clear on how that can be
done, or whether or not it is indeed possible.  Hence this post.

I'm (yet another) private computer user with a home LAN and an aDSL
gateway to an ISP.  I'm running Fetchmail/Sendmail/Procmail on my own
machine, which primarily means I can use any MUA at whim.  It also means
I've the potential to serve the LAN as well, though presently don't
(wife likes her own setup...)  And it also means I could cobble up a
simple email mirror to do the job, but it would be a limited hack.

What I want to do is run a real list server instead.  Thought of
majordomo but was set straight on the currently much better regarded
Mailman, which is why I'm asking here.  So, the question:

Is it possible to run a server behind a gateway and through an ISP?

Fetchmail can service list mailboxes easily enough, and Sendmail can do
transport duty both ways.  But in order that my machine's hostname is
not carried beyond the gateway, I have to use the Sendmail '-f' switch.
Simple enough.

Don't know whether or not Mailman can be configured to accept messages
from Fetchmail, and/or to pass outgoing to Sendmail, however.

If I set up Mailman on my machine, it will (I presume) regard it's own
address as that of the machine, an address only valid on my LAN.  I
suppose the question is whether or not I can set up reliable address
translation for the outgoing smtp stuff, but I'm a relative newbie at
all this and would sure like to know what is or is not feasible/possible
before I get all bogged down and over my head.

Is this post clear enough for a substantive response, or do I need to
clarify anything?

Thanks for reading,

Bill Tallman



From Brian at fahrlander.net  Tue Apr 25 11:33:43 2006
From: Brian at fahrlander.net (Brian Fahrlander)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 04:33:43 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman lists
Message-ID: <1145957623.5719.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Mailman is a well-made, but odd product for an administrator (not a
programmer): it's slick, simple, reliable, everything you'd want from a
mailing list but one: a clearness of documentation.  I've installed it
at least three times, and I swear I couldn't tell you how to.  Sendmail,
on the other hand, when you've installed it, you *know* how you did it,
ya know?
                
That's what's making things hard for us, here. The OS is Fedora Core 4
(Ubuntu's not quite ready) and we're running the most recent RPM
available, mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4.
                
A server was running this for several years- one of my mentioned
installs. It's now run long enough to start to worry about the
reliability of the drives, and for subsequent admins to make some
mistakes that turned a bit messy.  So a new drive is /dev/hda, and the
old one is /dev/hdc, and mounted read-only, as /archive until we're
completely transitioned.
                
And ya know- I coulda *sworn* the actual list of subscribers
was in a text file in a previous version, but it isn't. 
                
Key questions:

1. What, explicitly, do I copy from the archive to get the lists
back, and what steps do I take to make them work?  Simply
copying the files that seem right, don't work at all. I suspect
the binary to check the configuration will be involved, but the
docs are driving me up a tree.

2. Am I doing this right? Usually when I spend a couple of
days Googling and turn up nothing, it means I'm doing something
wrong...

-- 
Don't be fooled by lovesongs and lonely hearts...you're living in a
Twilight World. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl?nder                 Christian, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                              http://Fahrlander.net/brian
ICQ: 5119262                         AOL/Yahoo/GoogleTalk: WheelDweller
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From Brian at fahrlander.net  Tue Apr 25 00:47:37 2006
From: Brian at fahrlander.net (Brian Fahrlander)
Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 17:47:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman
Message-ID: <1145918857.5719.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>

    Mailman is a well-made product; it's slick, simple, reliable,
        everything you'd want from a mailing list but one: a clearness
        of
        documentation.  I've installed it three times, and I swear I
        don't know how I did it.  Sendmail, on the other hand, when
        you've installed it, you *know* how you did it, ya know?
        
            That's what's making things hard for us, over here. The OS
        is Fedora Core 4 (Ubuntu's RAID-setup isn't easy, yet) and we're
        running the most recent RPM available, mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4.
        
            A server was running this for several years- long enough to
        start to worry about the reliability of the disk drives, and
        long enough for subsequent admins to make some mistakes that
        turned a bit messy.  So we take the old drive, set it for IDE
        secondary-master, put in a new drive, and mounted the old drive,
        Read-only, as /archive until we're completely transitioned.
        
            And ya know- I coulda *sworn* the actual list of subscribers
        was in a text file, but it isn't.
        
            Key questions:
        
            1. What, explicitly, do I copy from the archive to get the
        lists
        back, and what steps do I take to make them work?  Simply
        copying the files that seem right, don't work at all. I suspect
        the binary to check the configuration will be involved, but the
        docs are driving me up a tree.
        
            2. Am I doing this right? Usually when I spend a couple of
        days Googling and turn up nothing, it means I'm doing something
        wrong...
        
-- 
Don't be fooled by lovesongs and lonely hearts...you're living in a
Twilight World. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl?nder                 Christian, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                              http://Fahrlander.net/brian
ICQ: 5119262                         AOL/Yahoo/GoogleTalk: WheelDweller
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From Brian at fahrlander.net  Sun Apr 23 21:25:49 2006
From: Brian at fahrlander.net (Brian Fahrlander)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 14:25:49 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] A little help with Mailman?
Message-ID: <1145820349.6358.33.camel@localhost.localdomain>


    Mailman is a well-made product; it's slick, simple, reliable,
everything you'd want from a mailing list but one: a clearness of
documentation.  I've installed it three times, and I swear I don't know
how I did it.  Sendmail, on the other hand, when you've installed it,
you *know* how you did it, ya know?

    That's what's making things hard for us, over here. The OS is Fedora
Core 4 (Ubuntu's RAID-setup isn't easy, yet) and we're running the most
recent RPM available, mailman-2.1.5-35.fc4.

    A server was running this for several years- long enough to start to
worry about the reliability of the disk drives, and long enough for
subsequent admins to make some mistakes that turned a bit messy.  So we
take the old drive, set it for IDE secondary-master, put in a new drive,
and mounted the old drive, Read-only, as /archive until we're completely
transitioned.

    And ya know- I coulda *sworn* the actual list of subscribers was in
a text file, but it isn't.

    Key questions:

    1. What, explicitly, do I copy from the archive to get the lists
back, and what steps do I take to make them work?  Simply copying the
files that seem right, don't work at all. I suspect the binary to check
the configuration will be involved, but the docs are driving me up a
tree.

    2. Am I doing this right? Usually when you spend a couple of days
Googling for a project and turn up nothing, it means I'm doing something
wrong...

-- 
Don't be fooled by lovesongs and lonely hearts...you're living in a
Twilight World. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl?nder                 Christian, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                              http://Fahrlander.net/brian
ICQ: 5119262                         AOL/Yahoo/GoogleTalk: WheelDweller
------------------------------------------------------------------------



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 01:32:33 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 16:32:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1145918857.5719.16.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251632330406af471db7@msapiro>

Brian Fahrlander wrote:
>        
>            And ya know- I coulda *sworn* the actual list of subscribers
>        was in a text file, but it isn't.


Right. It's in lists/<listname>/config.pck along with the list
configuration.

       
>            Key questions:
>        
>            1. What, explicitly, do I copy from the archive to get the
>        lists
>        back, and what steps do I take to make them work?  Simply
>        copying the files that seem right, don't work at all.


I don't know what seems right to you, but the lists/ and archives/
directories have almost everything. The rest is maybe some held
messages in data/ and queued messages in process in qfiles/.

Simply restoring lists/<listname>/config.pck into a working instalation
should get a functional list except for archives.


-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brian at krusic.com  Wed Apr 26 02:04:58 2006
From: brian at krusic.com (Brian Krusic)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:04:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list admin/moderator as list
Message-ID: <03ab01c668c5$0e80dcd0$cc00a8c0@kci>

Hi,

Is it possible to have the list admin/moderator as a list as well?

I'm used to sendmail aliases but when I assign the list admin and/or moderator as another list I get implicit destination approval requests before the message even gets to the approval phase for itself.

My goal is to have a static list admin/moderator as an alias and the alias members them selves be dynamic.

Thanks in advance,
Bri-

From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 02:05:48 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:05:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question(s).
In-Reply-To: <20060425214414.GB6809@olypen.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251705480578a9b76192@msapiro>

William D. Tallman
>
>Is it possible to run a server behind a gateway and through an ISP?


Yes.


>Fetchmail can service list mailboxes easily enough, and Sendmail can do
>transport duty both ways.  But in order that my machine's hostname is
>not carried beyond the gateway, I have to use the Sendmail '-f' switch.
>Simple enough.


Actually you don't. Mailman talks to sendmail at the SMTP level, not at
the sendmail command level and it specifies it's own domain
(configured in Mailman) in both From: and envelope sender.


>Don't know whether or not Mailman can be configured to accept messages
>from Fetchmail, and/or to pass outgoing to Sendmail, however.


If you run Sendmail on your server so it listens on 'localhost' port
25, Mailman will talk to it 'out of the box'

I'm not fully familiar with Fetchmail's capabilities, but if Fetchmail
can retrieve mail from a remote mailbox and pipe it to a local command
(different depending on which mailbox it came from), this will work.
Also, Procmail can definitely do what's required to get mail to
Mailman.

Also, there is another 'experimental' way to get mail to Mailman where
Fetchmail would deposit the incoming mail in a local directory, and
Mailman's USE_MAILDIR option is set so Mailman basically polls the
local directory for new mail.

>If I set up Mailman on my machine, it will (I presume) regard it's own
>address as that of the machine, an address only valid on my LAN.


You would set up Mailman to know and use the external domain names.
There are some potential complications mostly involving what list
names appear on what web pages, but as long as you are not trying to
support multiple domains with some lists in one and other lists in
another, these are easily handled.

>I
>suppose the question is whether or not I can set up reliable address
>translation for the outgoing smtp stuff, but I'm a relative newbie at
>all this and would sure like to know what is or is not feasible/possible
>before I get all bogged down and over my head.


I'm not sure what you are envisioning here, but I think there is no
problem. I think everything can use 'outside' addresses.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 02:14:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:14:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] list admin/moderator as list
In-Reply-To: <03ab01c668c5$0e80dcd0$cc00a8c0@kci>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251714580796a9b76276@msapiro>

Brian Krusic wrote:
>
>Is it possible to have the list admin/moderator as a list as well?


Sure.


>I'm used to sendmail aliases but when I assign the list admin and/or moderator as another list I get implicit destination approval requests before the message even gets to the approval phase for itself.


The list (lista) that is the admin address for the other list (listb)
can have its Privacy options...->Recipient
filters->require_explicit_destination set to No or it can have
listb-owner at example.com in acceptable_aliases.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From wtallman at olypen.com  Wed Apr 26 02:36:43 2006
From: wtallman at olypen.com (William D. Tallman)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:36:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question(s).
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604251705480578a9b76192@msapiro>
References: <20060425214414.GB6809@olypen.com>
	<PC1740200604251705480578a9b76192@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060426003643.GA11689@olypen.com>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 05:05:48PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
<snip>

Aha!  That's what I was hoping to hear.  Saved your response, and will
send majordomo->/dev/null.  Hello, Mailman!

Setting up a web interface won't be something I'll do, as the ISP has
the page, not me.  No open ports and behind a NATing router/modem :)

Unless I can configure Mailman to automagically ftp the ISP, login, and
upload to preconfigured pages, that is.

In any case, thanks for this prompt response.  Looks like I'm good to
go!

Bill Tallman



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 03:04:35 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:04:35 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question(s).
In-Reply-To: <20060426003643.GA11689@olypen.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251804350828a327c07f@msapiro>

William D. Tallman wrote:
>
>Setting up a web interface won't be something I'll do, as the ISP has
>the page, not me.  No open ports and behind a NATing router/modem :)


For all but very large scale lists, it is much easier to administer the
lists via the web interface. You don't have to open a port. Just run a
web server on your local box and connect to it at 'localhost' or via
it's lan side address from elsewhere in the lan.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From Brian at fahrlander.net  Wed Apr 26 03:11:56 2006
From: Brian at fahrlander.net (Brian Fahrlander)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:11:56 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604251632330406af471db7@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604251632330406af471db7@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1146013917.5719.63.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Tue, 2006-04-25 at 16:32 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Brian Fahrlander wrote:
> >        
> >            And ya know- I coulda *sworn* the actual list of subscribers
> >        was in a text file, but it isn't.
> 
> 
> Right. It's in lists/<listname>/config.pck along with the list
> configuration.
> 
>        
> >            Key questions:
> >        
> >            1. What, explicitly, do I copy from the archive to get the
> >        lists
> >        back, and what steps do I take to make them work?  Simply
> >        copying the files that seem right, don't work at all.
> 
> 
> I don't know what seems right to you, but the lists/ and archives/
> directories have almost everything. The rest is maybe some held
> messages in data/ and queued messages in process in qfiles/.
> 
> Simply restoring lists/<listname>/config.pck into a working instalation
> should get a functional list except for archives.

    Well, it appears to have worked, despite a permission problem
(between the two different installs).  I sense that the archived
messages are a whole, other kettle-of-fish?  :)

    BTW: I only meant to send the one message- the others were held up
due to a reverse-IP problem that appears only now to be fixed.  Thanks
for the help!

-- 
Don't be fooled by lovesongs and lonely hearts...you're living in a
Twilight World. 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Fahrl?nder                 Christian, Conservative, and Technomad
Evansville, IN                              http://Fahrlander.net/brian
ICQ: 5119262                         AOL/Yahoo/GoogleTalk: WheelDweller
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 03:33:34 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 18:33:34 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Serious problem
In-Reply-To: <1145995850.24481.277.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251833340171a327bded@msapiro>

Yves Bajard wrote:
>
>For one of the 11 mailing lists I host and manage as list owner, when
>clicking on URL of the admin page, I get directly into it without having
>to go through the password filter.
>
>I noticed that people who look for that list on Google can also access
>directly the admin page of that list without being blocked by the
>password filter.
>
>Anybody could tell me how to correct that flaw? I am not the webmaster
>of my websites, but have contracted it to a local server in my city.


It is unclear to me what is happening here, but here are some things to
think about.

Do you have a saved login cookie for the list?

Can anyone from any computer get to list admin pages via google, or
just from your computer?

Does the google link have a query part with adminpw=?

Have you tried changing the list password?

What happens if you click the 'logout' link on an admin page?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg  Wed Apr 26 04:42:08 2006
From: celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg (Celes Victoria)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:42:08 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
Message-ID: <20060426024208.43703.qmail@web38003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

helo there... (^_^)

i want to install Mailman on MAC OS x following from
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg33402.html
on step 3 e & f ..i got some errors

micom:/Applications/mailman/mailman-2.1.8 root# sudo
./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
--with-cgi-gid=www --with-mail-gid=mailman
loading cache ./config.cache
checking for --with-python... no
checking for python... /usr/bin/python
checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
checking Python version... 2.3
checking that Python has a working distutils... yes
checking for a BSD compatible install...
/usr/bin/install -c
checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... no
checking for true... /usr/bin/true
checking for --without-gcc... no
checking for gcc... no
checking for cc... no
configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH
bemicom:/Applications/mailman/mailman-2.1.8 root# sudo
make installsudo: make: command not found

should i install the Developer's Tools to fi my
problems?,..cos i read it on
http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg14100.html

is that OK on line
configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH
thank you...


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos.
http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/


From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 04:54:06 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 19:54:06 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Restoring Mailman
In-Reply-To: <1146013917.5719.63.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604251954060062a9b75f64@msapiro>

Brian Fahrlander wrote:
>
>    Well, it appears to have worked, despite a permission problem
>(between the two different installs).  I sense that the archived
>messages are a whole, other kettle-of-fish?  :)


If you have only the old archives, you can restore the
archives/private/<listname> and archives/private/<listname>.mbox
directories and that should do it. If the archives are public, the
symlinks from archives/public/ will be automatically created by
Mailman.

If you have new archives as well as old, the easiest thing is to
concatenate the old and new
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox files leaving the
concatenated result in
archives/private/<listname>.mbox/<listname>.mbox, and then run

bin/arch --wipe <listname>

to build a combined archive.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 05:01:05 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:01:05 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <20060426024208.43703.qmail@web38003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604252001050703a9b761e4@msapiro>

Celes Victoria wrote:

>checking for gcc... no
>checking for cc... no
>configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH

Configure couldn't find a 'cc' (C compiler) command

>bemicom:/Applications/mailman/mailman-2.1.8 root# sudo
>make installsudo: make: command not found


And there appears to be no make command either.


>should i install the Developer's Tools to fi my
>problems?


Yes. You must have the Developer Tools installed to configure and
install Mailman.

That may not fix all your problems, but it will give you a 'cc' and a
'make'.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg  Wed Apr 26 05:24:44 2006
From: celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg (Celes Victoria)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:24:44 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
Message-ID: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

thank u to reply (^_^)...
no, i don't see it,.. are u forgot / misspell of
"afp458.com"  ?
in there i just not find linked to mac...

so the kind should i install from developer tools is
FWIW?
cos i'm newbie for mac os X & i don't wanna get wrong
to install it....
is  apple.com provide the developer tools on it? & can
i download & install it?


thank you..

> Yes, you must install the Developer Tools. FWIW, if
> you've already  
> su'ed to root, there's no need for sudo.
> 
> Have you seen the instructions at afp458.com?
> 
> Dan
> 
> 
> ====================
> Dan Phillips
> Associate Professor
> Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
> University of Memphis
> dan at music.memphis.edu




		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos.
http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/


From wtallman at olypen.com  Wed Apr 26 05:28:57 2006
From: wtallman at olypen.com (William D. Tallman)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:28:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Newbie question(s).
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604251804350828a327c07f@msapiro>
References: <20060426003643.GA11689@olypen.com>
	<PC1740200604251804350828a327c07f@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060426032857.GA13961@olypen.com>

On Tue, Apr 25, 2006 at 06:04:35PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> William D. Tallman wrote:
> >
> >Setting up a web interface won't be something I'll do, as the ISP has
> >the page, not me.  No open ports and behind a NATing router/modem :)
> 
> 
> For all but very large scale lists, it is much easier to administer the
> lists via the web interface. You don't have to open a port. Just run a
> web server on your local box and connect to it at 'localhost' or via
> it's lan side address from elsewhere in the lan.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

Oh, I see.  The site is for the administrator, then.  Something like the
CUPS admin page.  Good enough.  Will be looking at this package this
evening, presumably lots of stuff to read...

Thanks,

Bill Tallman



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 05:43:32 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 20:43:32 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604252043320000dec95ca0@msapiro>

Celes Victoria wrote:

>no, i don't see it,.. are u forgot / misspell of
>"afp458.com"  ?
>in there i just not find linked to mac...


I believe Dan is referring to articles at www.afp548.com as linked from
the Mailman FAQ article 1.21 at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>.

 
>so the kind should i install from developer tools is
>FWIW?
>cos i'm newbie for mac os X & i don't wanna get wrong
>to install it....
>is  apple.com provide the developer tools on it? & can
>i download & install it?


You need to install the Apple Developer Tools package that is on the
Mac OS X CDs/DVDs that came with the computer or contained the OS
upgrade you have installed. If you don't have the CDs/DVDs, you can
download the Developer tools from Apple, but you should have the disks.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From lstone19 at stonejongleux.com  Wed Apr 26 05:28:37 2006
From: lstone19 at stonejongleux.com (Larry Stone)
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 22:28:37 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <20060426024208.43703.qmail@web38003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <C0745315.1A263%lstone19@stonejongleux.com>

On 4/25/06 9:42 PM, Celes Victoria at celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg wrote:

> helo there... (^_^)
> 
> i want to install Mailman on MAC OS x following from
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg33402.html
> on step 3 e & f ..i got some errors
> 
> micom:/Applications/mailman/mailman-2.1.8 root# sudo
> ./configure --prefix=/Applications/mailman
> --with-cgi-gid=www --with-mail-gid=mailman
> loading cache ./config.cache
> checking for --with-python... no
> checking for python... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python interpreter... /usr/bin/python
> checking Python version... 2.3
> checking that Python has a working distutils... yes
> checking for a BSD compatible install...
> /usr/bin/install -c
> checking whether make sets ${MAKE}... no
> checking for true... /usr/bin/true
> checking for --without-gcc... no
> checking for gcc... no
> checking for cc... no
> configure: error: no acceptable cc found in $PATH
> bemicom:/Applications/mailman/mailman-2.1.8 root# sudo
> make installsudo: make: command not found
> 
> should i install the Developer's Tools to fi my
> problems?,..cos i read it on
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg14100.html

As Step 1i of my instructions you referenced above says, "You need to
install the Developer Tools that came with your Panther disks
or several of the steps won't work." so yes, you need to install the
Developer Tools (oops, I should have changed that to say "Tiger" rather than
"Panther" and on Tiger, it's another package on the installation DVD, not a
separate CD). The Developer Tools are found in the Xcode Tools folder on the
Tiger DVD (double-click XcodeTools.mpkg) and on the Xcode Tools CD for
Panther and in the Xcode Tools folder on the Tiger DVD (double-click
Developer.mpkg). Looking at the Tiger install DVD, if you select Customize,
it appears you must install at least Developer Tools Software, gcc 3.3, and
the Mac OS X SDK (under Software Development Kits) - most of the stuff is
small but there's probably no reason to install the Developer Documentation,
Developer Example Software or any of the stuff not selected by default which
will save you over a GB. Also note that if you not install the BSD subsystem
as part of you Mac OS X install, you must do that first (that's part of the
Mac OS X install, not the Xcode/Developer Tools install).

-- 
Larry Stone
lstone19 at stonejongleux.com
http://www.stonejongleux.com/




From rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov  Wed Apr 26 15:22:01 2006
From: rosenbaumlm at ornl.gov (Rosenbaum, Larry M.)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:22:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive search?
Message-ID: <428543BBA8AC7443BA10B0F491C6B0560229F024@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>

Is there a way for users to search the Mailman list archives
(pipermail)?

 

Larry



From msapiro at value.net  Wed Apr 26 17:19:36 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:19:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive search?
In-Reply-To: <428543BBA8AC7443BA10B0F491C6B0560229F024@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604260819360750e4a97132@msapiro>

Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:

>Is there a way for users to search the Mailman list archives
>(pipermail)?

See
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From steve at laniels.org  Wed Apr 26 16:02:39 2006
From: steve at laniels.org (Stephen R Laniel)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:02:39 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Archive search?
In-Reply-To: <428543BBA8AC7443BA10B0F491C6B0560229F024@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
References: <428543BBA8AC7443BA10B0F491C6B0560229F024@ORNLEXCHANGE.ornl.gov>
Message-ID: <20060426140239.GA7604@whitehail.bostoncoop.net>

On Wed, Apr 26, 2006 at 09:22:01AM -0400, Rosenbaum, Larry M. wrote:
> Is there a way for users to search the Mailman list archives
> (pipermail)?

FAQ:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.011.htp

-- 
Stephen R. Laniel
steve at laniels.org
Cell: +(617) 308-5571
http://laniels.org/
PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
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From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Apr 26 18:02:26 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:02:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604252043320000dec95ca0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <C074E7A2.C294%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/25/06 8:43 PM, "Mark Sapiro" <msapiro at value.net> wrote:

> You need to install the Apple Developer Tools package that is on the
> Mac OS X CDs/DVDs that came with the computer or contained the OS
> upgrade you have installed. If you don't have the CDs/DVDs, you can
> download the Developer tools from Apple, but you should have the disks.

The Developer Tools version on the Tiger DVD (the DVDs I have, at any rate)
is not the current version, but that shouldn't matter for compiling Mailman
(a task I've never attempted since I don't want to run Mailman on my Macs).

The upgrade download is smaller than the full download, if I remember
correctly (I usually set the machine to the task of downloading and go
away).

  --John




From matt at mail.netera.ca  Wed Apr 26 18:44:41 2006
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 10:44:41 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit via command line
Message-ID: <444FA379.3070103@mail.netera.ca>

Is there a way to set the moderation bit (on/off) for a user on a 
specific list by the command line?

The closest thing I have found is on
http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-February/042392.html
but I would like to stay away from using a python script like this if 
possible.

--
Matthew Clarkson


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 18:48:26 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:48:26 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] moderation bit via command line
In-Reply-To: <444FA379.3070103@mail.netera.ca>
References: <444FA379.3070103@mail.netera.ca>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604260948p2c66fb30h6daee67c37ded3cf@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/26/06, Matthew Clarkson <matt at mail.netera.ca> wrote:
> The closest thing I have found is on
> http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-February/042392.html
> but I would like to stay away from using a python script like this if
> possible.
If you're using Mailman, I'm afraid you're already using python scripts...


That said, I think bin/withlist is the only way to do this.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From kris at reefnet.ca  Wed Apr 26 17:50:03 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:50:03 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
Message-ID: <444F96AB.6010406@reefnet.ca>

SHORT VERSION...sending to "-owner" gets delivered fine, but sending to 
"-admin" gets vanishes (no bounce) and tallys a bounce count against the 
owner address. What would cause this??

LONG VERSION...

BACKGROUND:

- I have an announcement-style Mailman list (let's call it LIST)
- LIST is hosted on a shared web server running cPanel
- LIST is configured to send the owner subscription notifications

THE PROBLEM:

- A few weeks ago, I stopped getting subscription notifications
- A few days later, I got a message from Mailman saying that my address 
had excessive bounces and was disabled. I had to re-enable MY OWN 
subscription.

This prompted me to test the "LIST-owner" and "LIST-admin" addresses...

- The "-owner" address is delivered to me just fine.
- The "-admin" address never delivers. No bounce msg to sender either.
- EVEN WORSE...each mail sent to "-admin" seems to get treated as a 
BOUNCE event against MY (owner) address!

WHAT I'VE DONE:

- I have checked my /etc/valiases/<domain> file and all the forwarders 
to mailman are exactly as they used to be. All looks perfect.
- I tried creating a brand new list with all default settings...same 
problem.
- I got other people from my web host to try the same on other 
servers...some work fine, and some servers have the same problem as mine.

ANY IDEAS?? I found this thread from 3 years ago which seems to be a 
similar problem, but the thread fizzled without a solution:

   http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2003-May/028650.html

I'm ready to pull my hair out!

Kris Wilk
ReefNet Inc.
www.reefnet.ca


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Wed Apr 26 18:50:36 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:50:36 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] No Mailman web pages appear.
In-Reply-To: <20060425154658.7A3BA7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0604250956530.6361@chi.spunge.org>
	<20060425154658.7A3BA7AE@mail.tuunq.com>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604260950r9a3e87bi7f225d23b7aa2c39@mail.gmail.com>

> In a flurry of recycled electrons, Andy wrote:
> > Thanks for your reply. The admin tried everything he could and it still does
> > not work. He has virtual hosts, and he suspects that perhaps Mailman cannot
> > work with virtual hosts, only with proper WWW servers.
> > Can you please confirm?
There's no reason this should be the case. As long as the virtual
hosts are set up to support CGI, it should work fine.

On 4/25/06, Carl Zwanzig <cpz at tuunq.com> wrote:
> What is a "virtual host" v. a "proper WWW server"?  I have mailman and
> apache nicely doing lists for a couple of different domains on one apache
> and one mailman instance.   [Sorry, I missed the beginning of this thread.]
>
I assume we're talking about Apache virtual hosts, here.

--
- Patrick Bogen


From tom at detroitonline.com  Wed Apr 26 21:30:32 2006
From: tom at detroitonline.com (Tom Ray)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:30:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone refresh my memory?
Message-ID: <00a701c66967$e26a67d0$c802a8c0@echoes>

Our mail server crashed and we didn't have a back up of the Exim
configuration file. We had some mailman lists running and I remember
there was a command I put up at the top on the configuration file but I
can't remember what is was. Can someone refresh my memory? 

I believe it was something along the lines of
MM_LISTS=lists.list1.tld:lists.list2.tld

Am I right? I already have the MAILMAN_HOME and MAILMAN_WRAP already
set.

Thanks!


From matt at mail.netera.ca  Wed Apr 26 22:12:33 2006
From: matt at mail.netera.ca (Matthew Clarkson)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:12:33 -0600
Subject: [Mailman-Users] announce list creation script
Message-ID: <444FD431.5010906@mail.netera.ca>

I have just completed a new announcement list script.

I find that this is more complete and flexible than the current ones 
which I could find on the net.  Also, unlike all the other scripts, this 
doesn't require bash (only sh), so it should be more cross platform, and 
save people from having to install bash on systems which don't have it 
on a default install.

Thanks Patrick for steering me on the right path earlier for setting the 
moderation bit for a user.

Feel free to use it for whatever purpose if you wish to do so, also, you 
can link to it at
http://www.netera.ca/mailinglists/MakeAnnounce.sh
http://www.netera.ca/mailinglists/changemod.py

--
Matthew Clarkson
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From jwblist at loricamail.com  Wed Apr 26 23:23:19 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 14:23:19 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone refresh my memory?
In-Reply-To: <00a701c66967$e26a67d0$c802a8c0@echoes>
Message-ID: <C07532D7.C2B0%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/26/06 12:30 PM, "Tom Ray" <tom at detroitonline.com> wrote:

> Our mail server crashed and we didn't have a back up of the Exim
> configuration file. We had some mailman lists running and I remember
> there was a command I put up at the top on the configuration file but I
> can't remember what is was. Can someone refresh my memory?
> 
> I believe it was something along the lines of
> MM_LISTS=lists.list1.tld:lists.list2.tld
> 
> Am I right? I already have the MAILMAN_HOME and MAILMAN_WRAP already
> set.

We don't have (or need) a list of the lists in the Exim configuration.  Exim
learns that a local part refers to a list by asking the file system (with
the require_files doing the file system query and the two local_part_suffix
things doing the work of turning, say listname-join, into listname for the
lookup):

mailman_router:
  driver = accept
  require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
  local_part_suffix_optional
  local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
                      -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
                      -owner : -request : -admin
  transport = mailman_transport

  --John




From tom at detroitonline.com  Wed Apr 26 23:25:09 2006
From: tom at detroitonline.com (Tom Ray)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:25:09 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can someone refresh my memory?
In-Reply-To: <C07532D7.C2B0%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <00db01c66977$e5879310$c802a8c0@echoes>

Thanks, but I had already got it I was looking for

Domainlist mm_lists=lists.listone.tld

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mailman-users-bounces+tom=detroitonline.com at python.org 
> [mailto:mailman-users-bounces+tom=detroitonline.com at python.org
> ] On Behalf Of John W. Baxter
> Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 5:23 PM
> To: Mailman Users
> Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Can someone refresh my memory?
> 
> 
> On 4/26/06 12:30 PM, "Tom Ray" <tom at detroitonline.com> wrote:
> 
> > Our mail server crashed and we didn't have a back up of the Exim 
> > configuration file. We had some mailman lists running and I 
> remember 
> > there was a command I put up at the top on the 
> configuration file but 
> > I can't remember what is was. Can someone refresh my memory?
> > 
> > I believe it was something along the lines of 
> > MM_LISTS=lists.list1.tld:lists.list2.tld
> > 
> > Am I right? I already have the MAILMAN_HOME and 
> MAILMAN_WRAP already 
> > set.
> 
> We don't have (or need) a list of the lists in the Exim 
> configuration.  Exim learns that a local part refers to a 
> list by asking the file system (with the require_files doing 
> the file system query and the two local_part_suffix things 
> doing the work of turning, say listname-join, into listname for the
> lookup):
> 
> mailman_router:
>   driver = accept
>   require_files = MAILMAN_HOME/lists/$local_part/config.pck
>   local_part_suffix_optional
>   local_part_suffix = -bounces : -bounces+* : \
>                       -confirm+* : -join : -leave : \
>                       -owner : -request : -admin
>   transport = mailman_transport
> 
>   --John
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> Mailman-Users mailing list
> Mailman-Users at python.org 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> Mailman 
> FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py
> Searchable Archives: 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
> 
> Unsubscribe: 
> http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/tom%40det
roitonline.com

Security Policy:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&amp;file=faq01.027.htp



From tomnaugh at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 00:48:48 2006
From: tomnaugh at gmail.com (Tom Kavanaugh)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:48:48 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List config files
Message-ID: <98a90c220604261548u27bf114am15779dd16550f21f@mail.gmail.com>

Hi,

I am setting up a bunch of mail lists on mailman 2.1.7 running on RedHat Ent
Linux ver 3.

For the most part, these lists have the same custom config.
They are all private lists,  non-members  can subscribe to the list, etc.

I would like to know where these individual mail list config files are
stored.
So I can just copy them over for the new lists.

Thanks
Tom


From sam at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Apr 27 01:59:04 2006
From: sam at catalyst.net.nz (Sam Cannell)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:59:04 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any easy way to remove one email address from a
	queued message?
Message-ID: <1146095944.5922.15.camel@pkunk.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

Our mail server is choking on a (syntactically incorrect) recipient
address for a message in Mailman's queue.  The message has been
delivered to some of the recipients, but Mailman keeps retrying this one
address and not continuing with the rest:

2006-04-27 09:10:18 SMTP call from localhost (hostname.removed)
[127.0.0.1] U=list dropped: too many syntax or protocol errors (last
command was "rcpt TO:<'username at domain'>")
2006-04-27 09:25:19 SMTP call from localhost (hostname.removed)
[127.0.0.1] U=list dropped: too many syntax or protocol errors (last
command was "rcpt TO:<'username at domain'>")

I've replaced the email address in those logs, but the invalid part is
the ''s around it.  Is there any way I can remove the invalid address
from the message to allow it to deliver to the rest of the recipients?

Thanks,

Sam
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From mdoughty at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 02:36:11 2006
From: mdoughty at gmail.com (Matt Doughty)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:36:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] question about web archives for a very large number
	of lists.
Message-ID: <6f43a0940604261736r4d18fb09y20ea2cafe033bed@mail.gmail.com>

I am currently maintaining a mailman install that has 5000+ lists, many high
volume. The
archive volume is nearly 80GB in size between the archives and mboxes for
the various
lists. Even after doing acrobatics to only archive the lists that have
changed within the
last 24hours it is extremely time consuming to rebuild the archives from the
cumulative
mbox files.

I am considering rotating the mbox daily, and only processing the the mbox
for that day.
This would mean using the arch without --wipe. My question is, what pitfalls
do I need to
lookout for with this approach?

thanks,
--
--Matt


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 02:47:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:47:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <444F96AB.6010406@reefnet.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604261747500640ae61f512@msapiro>

Kris Wilk wrote:

>SHORT VERSION...sending to "-owner" gets delivered fine, but sending to 
>"-admin" gets vanishes (no bounce) and tallys a bounce count against the 
>owner address. What would cause this??


Short answer... The -admin address is a synonym for the -bounces
address.


>LONG VERSION...
>
>- A few weeks ago, I stopped getting subscription notifications


I don't know what would cause this since Mailman sends these to -owner.
Mailman never sends to -admin. (I have an idea - see below)


>- A few days later, I got a message from Mailman saying that my address 
>had excessive bounces and was disabled. I had to re-enable MY OWN 
>subscription.


I actually think there is or was a problem with delivery to your
address and your address is or was actually bouncing.


>This prompted me to test the "LIST-owner" and "LIST-admin" addresses...
>
>- The "-owner" address is delivered to me just fine.
>- The "-admin" address never delivers. No bounce msg to sender either.
>- EVEN WORSE...each mail sent to "-admin" seems to get treated as a 
>BOUNCE event against MY (owner) address!


This should not be the case. Unless you specifically crafted the
message to look like a DSN or other actual bounce notification, mail
to the -admin address should be treated as an unrecognized bounce and
forwarded to the owner as such.

This leads me to think as above that at least some mail from mailman to
you (like an unrecognized bounce notice or a subscription notice) is
actually bouncing and it is this secondary bounce that is being
registered.


>WHAT I'VE DONE:
<snip>
>ANY IDEAS??


In Mailman 2.0, bounces were sent to the -admin address which was the
owner. There was no automated bounce processing. In Mailman 2.1,
automated bounce processing was introduced with bounces returned to
the -bounces address. The "contact the admin" address was made the
-owner address. The -admin address was deprecated but retained as a
synonym for the -bounces address to handle transition bounces.

Mailman never sends anything to or from the -admin address. Mail
received at the -admin address is not scored as a bounce unless it is
a recognized bounce format. Arbitrary test messages you send to -admin
will be unrecognized bounces and if the option is set, will be
forwarded to the -owner address and then to the actual owner. I think
in your case, it is this unrecognized bounce notification that is in
fact bouncing and scoring a bounce for you.

I do not think your issue has anything to do with the handling of mail
to -admin. I think some mail (notifications) from mailman to you are
actually bouncing and this is what started a few weeks ago.

Did you start or change the way you reject spam? If you have spam
filtering, try white listing the -bounces address so notices from
list-bounces will get through.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 03:15:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:15:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] List config files
In-Reply-To: <98a90c220604261548u27bf114am15779dd16550f21f@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060426181551037522d8afca@msapiro>

Tom Kavanaugh wrote:
>
>I would like to know where these individual mail list config files are
>stored.
>So I can just copy them over for the new lists.


The list configuration, membership, etc. are stored as a Python pickle
in lists/<listname>/config.pck, but that is not what you want.

Use 'bin/config_list -o' to write the configuration of the base list to
a plain text file. Possibly edit this a bit and then use
'bin/config_list -i' to apply it to additional lists. See
'bin/config_list --help' for details.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris at reefnet.ca  Thu Apr 27 03:18:57 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:18:57 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604261747500640ae61f512@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604261747500640ae61f512@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44501C01.6020706@reefnet.ca>

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the detailed info. Much appreciated.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Short answer... The -admin address is a synonym for the -bounces
> address.

I discovered this myself just now as I looked at the contents of the 
"admin" and "bounces" scripts in the scripts directory.

> This leads me to think as above that at least some mail from mailman to
> you (like an unrecognized bounce notice or a subscription notice) is
> actually bouncing and it is this secondary bounce that is being
> registered.

Interesting idea...all I know for sure is that no matter what address I 
use as the owner (I've also tried setting it to an off-site gmail 
account), test mails of any format sent to "-admin" do not get to the owner.

Yet sending directly to "-owner" works just dandy.

What's even more weird is that if subscribe notifications go to 
"-owner", how would they bounce and my test messages to "-owner" not?

> Did you start or change the way you reject spam? If you have spam
> filtering, try white listing the -bounces address so notices from
> list-bounces will get through.

I have been using SpamAssasin since before I started using Mailman. But 
to take it out of the equation I turned off SA completely. 
Unfortunately, that didn't help.

Guess I've got some detective work to do! My web host is also 
investigating the issue, but I'm not holding my breath.

Kris


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 03:36:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 18:36:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any easy way to remove one email address from
	aqueued message?
In-Reply-To: <1146095944.5922.15.camel@pkunk.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604261836110281a2022f44@msapiro>

Sam Cannell wrote:
>
>Our mail server is choking on a (syntactically incorrect) recipient
>address for a message in Mailman's queue.  The message has been
>delivered to some of the recipients, but Mailman keeps retrying this one
>address and not continuing with the rest:


Presumably, you are asking about removing this address from the queued
message and not from the list. If you haven't removed it from the list
and are having difficulty doing so, see
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.013.htp>.

Step one. The message is queued between retries in qfiles/retry. There
is probably only the one entry, but if you need to check for sure, use
bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles to look at entries.

Step two. Move the queue entries with the bad address out of the
qfiles/ heierarchy.

Step three. The hard way. If you are proficient with Python and
Mailman, use bin/withlist to start an interactive session with the
list. Load the message and the metadata from the queue entry .pck
pickle, delete the bad address from the recips list in the metadata
and then either call Mailman.Handlers.SMTPDirect.process(mlist, msg,
msgdata) or repickle the message and metadata in a .pck file and put
it in the out queue or the retry queue.

Step three. The Easy way. Use bin/dumpdb or bin/show_qfiles to extract
the message text from the queue entry or get it from the archive or
the digest or the lists/<listname>/digest.mbox file and repost it to
the list (maybe using bin/inject) with an apology to those who receive
it twice.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 04:01:58 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:01:58 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <44501C01.6020706@reefnet.ca>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604261901580750212bb148@msapiro>

Kris Wilk wrote:
>
>Interesting idea...all I know for sure is that no matter what address I 
>use as the owner (I've also tried setting it to an off-site gmail 
>account), test mails of any format sent to "-admin" do not get to the owner.


Mail sent to -admin doesn't go to the owner directly. It only goes in
an unrecognized bounce notice if
bounce_unrecognized_goes_to_list_owner is yes.

Check Mailman's bounce log (if you can). When you send to -admin there
should be an entry

  bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <message-id>

and a "forwarding unrecognized" entry.

Then if this is followed by a bounce scored for you or a 'already
scored a bounce' for you, this is the owner notification that bounced.
If you then turn off notifying the owner on unrecognized bounces, and
you get the first message in the log, but not the second, you can be
sure it is the owner notice that was bouncing. (You may need to wait
for a "processing n queued bounces") message before seeing the "score"
messages.)

>Yet sending directly to "-owner" works just dandy.
>
>What's even more weird is that if subscribe notifications go to 
>"-owner", how would they bounce and my test messages to "-owner" not?


They have different From: headers and different content. If it's
filtering, maybe the From: in the case of your messages is white
listed and the listname-owner that the notices are From: is not.

But you say, the messages don't get to even an owner with a gmail
address, so any filtering would have to be applied by the Mailman host
at the outgoing SMTP level to be the cause of this issue.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sam at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Apr 27 04:45:36 2006
From: sam at catalyst.net.nz (Sam Cannell)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:45:36 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any easy way to remove one email address
	from	aqueued message?
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604261836110281a2022f44@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604261836110281a2022f44@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1146105936.15147.2.camel@pkunk.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 18:36 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Sam Cannell wrote:
> >
> >Our mail server is choking on a (syntactically incorrect) recipient
> >address for a message in Mailman's queue.  The message has been
>
> Step three. The hard way. If you are proficient with Python and
> Mailman, use bin/withlist to start an interactive session with the
> list. Load the message and the metadata from the queue entry .pck
> pickle, delete the bad address from the recips list in the metadata
> and then either call Mailman.Handlers.SMTPDirect.process(mlist, msg,
> msgdata) or repickle the message and metadata in a .pck file and put
> it in the out queue or the retry queue.

I'd prefer to do it this way, however I haven't really worked much with
that side of mailman.  I've looked around the mailman site for
information about the classes and functions I have access to through
withlist, but haven't had a lot of luck.  Is there any documentation
like this online?

Thanks,

Sam
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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 06:03:21 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 21:03:21 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any easy way to remove one email address
	fromaqueued message?
In-Reply-To: <1146105936.15147.2.camel@pkunk.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042621032103907a78547b@msapiro>

Sam Cannell wrote:
>
>I'd prefer to do it this way, however I haven't really worked much with
>that side of mailman.  I've looked around the mailman site for
>information about the classes and functions I have access to through
>withlist, but haven't had a lot of luck.  Is there any documentation
>like this online?


You want to do this under withlist just to provide the proper
environment for the unpickling. In my previous message I suggested
calling the process() function in SMTPDirect.py as a posibility, but I
think that may not work because SMTPDirect expects to be called from
OutgoingRunner. Anyway, I did a little test as follows:

[msapiro at msapiro ~]$ bin/withlist list1
Loading list list1 (unlocked)
The variable `m' is the list1 MailList instance
>>> import pickle
>>> fp = open('path/to/queue/entry.pck','rb')
>>> msg = pickle.load(fp)
>>> msgdata = pickle.load(fp)
>>> fp.close()
>>> msgdata['recips']
['msapiro at mail.value.net']

You may or may not want to do this as the list may be large

At this point you probably want to do something like

r = msgdata['recips']
del r[r.index("'the at bad.one'")]
msgdata['recips'] = r

Then write it to a new pickle:

>>> fp = open('path/to/new/entry.pck','wb')
>>> pickle.dump(msg, fp)
>>> pickle.dump(msgdata, fp)
>>> fp.close()
>>>                    (control-D here to quit)
Finalizing
[msapiro at msapiro ~]$

At this point, you may want to check with show_qfiles or dumpdb to see
that the new entry looks right. You could diff the outputs of dumpdb
applied to both pickle files to see that only the recips list changed.

Ultimately, you want to give the new file the same name as the old (the
name consists of a time and a hash and should be the right format),
and then move it to the out queue and Mailman will do the rest.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From sam at catalyst.net.nz  Thu Apr 27 06:11:09 2006
From: sam at catalyst.net.nz (Sam Cannell)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:11:09 +1200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Any easy way to remove one email
	address	fromaqueued message?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042621032103907a78547b@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006042621032103907a78547b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <1146111069.15147.8.camel@pkunk.wgtn.cat-it.co.nz>

On Wed, 2006-04-26 at 21:03 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ultimately, you want to give the new file the same name as the old
(the
> name consists of a time and a hash and should be the right format),
> and then move it to the out queue and Mailman will do the rest.

Fantastic .. I'll have a play around with that.  Thanks so much for your
help!

Sam
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From celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg  Thu Apr 27 06:27:52 2006
From: celesvictoria2005 at yahoo.com.sg (Celes Victoria)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:27:52 +0800 (CST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list disappear when press "save"
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042621032103907a78547b@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060427042752.89678.qmail@web38003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

hello there...
i got same problem with
http://lists.apple.com/archives/macos-x-server/2004/Jan/msg01683.html

on my /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'bemicom'
DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'bemicom'

the administrator = bemicom
administrator email = bemicom at localhost.bemicom
user email = squirrel at localhsot.bemicom

when i checked list of "enable mailing lists"..& other
menu shows up ..
i don't understand ..on list password entry...
i've search documents..to solve it but it's not match
to solve
pls tell me how to solve it..& show me the simple way
or giving me a little example ..
thank you..


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos.
http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/


From simba at vmailtest.ao.net  Thu Apr 27 06:15:04 2006
From: simba at vmailtest.ao.net (simba at vmailtest.ao.net)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 00:15:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mm_cfg.py use includes?
Message-ID: <52282.68.204.166.121.1146111304.squirrel@zazu.ao.net>

     Greetings...  I'm installing a new virtual mail server using Debian
Sarge, PostgreSQL, Postfix, Dovecot, Mailman, and PostfixAdmin.  I'm
trying to automate/tie as much of the administrative configuration
into the PostfixAdmin web interface & PostgreSQL database as
possible.  The only thing in the entire setup that doesn't have
direct query access to the SQL database is Mailman.  What I want to
do is create an hourly cron job to run a script which pulls the names
of the virtual domains from the database and creates the necessary
addvirtualhost('lists.%s', 'lists.%s') configuration items in
mm_cfg.py.  If I end up needing to use a new domain for mailing lists
more quickly than an hour, I can just run the script manually.

     I figure that the easiest way to do that would be to have the script
put those configuration items in a separate file and just use
something like Apache's "Include" directive to read it into the
configuration.

     I'm not terribly familiar with Python programming, and the only thing
I can find that's similar to what I want to do is the "import"
command.  It's not working like I'd hoped because when I add a "from
vhosts_cfg import *" to mm_cfg.py, the Mailman web scripts just come
back with "We've found a bug!" errors and nothing shows up in
/var/log/mailman/error.  I did remember to create an
/etc/mailman/vhosts_cfg.py test file with correct addvirtualhost()
usage syntax and made a symlink to it in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman, so
it shouldn't be a matter of a missing file.

     I'm not sure what I'm missing or even if this is the best way to
accomplish the task, and rather than go through the time-consuming
task of learning the semantics of another programming languate, I
figured I'd ask the experts.  :)  If anyone knows of a good way to do
this, I'd greatly appreciate a heads-up.  If this ends up being some
sort of informal feature request to be included in the next latest
and greatest version, that'd be cool too.  Thanks in advance for any
help offered!

--

Scott 'Simba' Garron



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 07:21:18 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 22:21:18 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mm_cfg.py use includes?
In-Reply-To: <52282.68.204.166.121.1146111304.squirrel@zazu.ao.net>
Message-ID: <PC174020060426222118076542ca98af@msapiro>

simba at vmailtest.ao.net wrote:
>
>     I'm not terribly familiar with Python programming, and the only thing
>I can find that's similar to what I want to do is the "import"
>command.  It's not working like I'd hoped because when I add a "from
>vhosts_cfg import *" to mm_cfg.py, the Mailman web scripts just come
>back with "We've found a bug!" errors and nothing shows up in
>/var/log/mailman/error.  I did remember to create an
>/etc/mailman/vhosts_cfg.py test file with correct addvirtualhost()
>usage syntax and made a symlink to it in /var/lib/mailman/Mailman, so
>it shouldn't be a matter of a missing file.


import is not include

You can't just put an add_virtualhost('a','b') line in a file and
import it into mm_cfg.py, because 'add_virtualhost' is undefined in
the file you're importing.

You don't get an error log entry because the traceback logging in
scripts/driver does this

    try:
        from Mailman.mm_cfg import VERSION
    except ImportError:
        VERSION = '&lt;undetermined&gt;'

but when you have syntax or other errors occurring in the import, the
exception thrown is not ImportError and the whole thing dies right
there. You might find the error in the web server's error log.

To actually see what the problem is, do

cd  /var/lib/mailman/Mailman
python

>>> import mm_cfg

And you'll see the errors. This won't necessarily tell you what to do,
but it will tell you what you can't do.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris at reefnet.ca  Thu Apr 27 07:59:44 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 01:59:44 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604261901580750212bb148@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604261901580750212bb148@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44505DD0.1090908@reefnet.ca>

First of all, thanks again for your help. Although my problem isn't 
solved yet, you've given me a much better understanding of how Mailman 
works.

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Check Mailman's bounce log (if you can). When you send to -admin there
> should be an entry
> 
>   bounce message w/no discernable addresses: <message-id>
> 
> and a "forwarding unrecognized" entry.

Yes, I see those entries.

> Then if this is followed by a bounce scored for you or a 'already
> scored a bounce' for you, this is the owner notification that bounced.

I see that too (after an "OutgoingRunner" processing line).

> If you then turn off notifying the owner on unrecognized bounces, and
> you get the first message in the log, but not the second, you can be
> sure it is the owner notice that was bouncing.

With the bounce notification off, I no longer get the "OutgoingRunner" 
line, nor the bounce score / already bounced line. And "forwarding 
unrecognized" becomes "discarding unrecognized".

So it looks like you have really pinpointed where the problem is.

>> What's even more weird is that if subscribe notifications go to 
>> "-owner", how would they bounce and my test messages to "-owner" not?
> 
> They have different From: headers and different content. If it's
> filtering, maybe the From: in the case of your messages is white
> listed and the listname-owner that the notices are From: is not.

All filtering, spam control, etc. that I can disable has been disabled.

Is there any way to see exactly what message(s) Mailman is trying to 
send that are bouncing? Is there a config setting or option that would 
cause all mail to be logged/saved/archived so I could see the structure 
of the mail and perhaps identify why it would bounce?

Alternatively, is there a way to see the bounce that is coming back 
after Mailman sends out the notification email?

Kris


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 08:24:45 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:24:45 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <44505DD0.1090908@reefnet.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042623244504211dbd6eb2@msapiro>

Kris Wilk wrote:
>
>All filtering, spam control, etc. that I can disable has been disabled.


It's not going to be on your side. Whatever it is is at the outgoing
SMTP level on the Mailman server.


>Is there any way to see exactly what message(s) Mailman is trying to 
>send that are bouncing? Is there a config setting or option that would 
>cause all mail to be logged/saved/archived so I could see the structure 
>of the mail and perhaps identify why it would bounce?


Do you control the list aliases? If so, you could change the alias for
list-owner to deliver to a local mailbox instead of piping to Mailman.


>Alternatively, is there a way to see the bounce that is coming back 
>after Mailman sends out the notification email?


It depends. If the bounce is reported directly back to Mailman as a
reject at the SMTP level, there should be something in Mailman's
smtp-failure log. Otherwise, you could change the list-bounces alias
to deliver to you or a local mailbox instead of piping to Mailman.
This again assumes that you have control over this.

In any case, check Mailman's smtp-failure log. The "OutgoingRunner"
entry in the bounce log seems to indicate an error in the SMTP
transaction which should be reported in more detail in smtp-failure.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 08:45:50 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 23:45:50 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] mailing list disappear when press "save"
In-Reply-To: <20060427042752.89678.qmail@web38003.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060426234550059328d5c863@msapiro>

Celes Victoria wrote:

>hello there...
>i got same problem with
>http://lists.apple.com/archives/macos-x-server/2004/Jan/msg01683.html


This apparently has to do with Apple's pre-installed Mailman on OS X
server. The mailman-users list can offer very little help on this. See
our FAQ article at
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp>


>on my /usr/share/mailman/Mailman/mm_cfg.py
>DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST = 'bemicom'
>DEFAULT_URL_HOST = 'bemicom'

These should be fully qualified domain names.



>the administrator = bemicom
>administrator email = bemicom at localhost.bemicom
>user email = squirrel at localhsot.bemicom
>
>when i checked list of "enable mailing lists"..& other
>menu shows up ..
>i don't understand ..on list password entry...
>i've search documents..to solve it but it's not match
>to solve
>pls tell me how to solve it..& show me the simple way
>or giving me a little example ..
>thank you..


As I said, it looks like you are using Apple's GUI. Maybe someone on
this list knows something about it, but it is an Apple product, not
ours.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris at reefnet.ca  Thu Apr 27 08:57:40 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:57:40 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042623244504211dbd6eb2@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006042623244504211dbd6eb2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44506B64.1020104@reefnet.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> If the bounce is reported directly back to Mailman as a
> reject at the SMTP level, there should be something in Mailman's
> smtp-failure log.

B-I-N-G-O (I think)! The smtp-failure log has entries like:

Apr 27 01:20:09 2006 (12765) All recipients refused: {'kris at reefnet.ca': 
(550, 'Verification failed for <mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca>\nNo Such 
User Here\nSender verify failed')}, msgid: 
<mailman.22.1146115208.18401.fubar_reefnet.ca at reefn$
Apr 27 01:20:09 2006 (12765) delivery to kris at reefnet.ca failed with 
code 550: Verification failed for <mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca>
No Such User Here
Sender verify failed

Seems like SMTP is rejecting mail that is supposed to have come from 
"mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca". That address does not - and never did - 
exist as a real account as far as I know. In the past (when all was 
working) the server must have been configured with less stringent sender 
verification, or some exception for "mailman-" addresses.

Sure enough, if I temporarily create an account "mailman-bounces at ...", 
everything starts working as expected. Not sure if that's the "proper" 
solution...I'm guessing I don't really need the account, but rather an 
SMTP rule of some sort to allow the necessary sender addresses.

Now I have the ammunition I need to confront my host again...THANKS!!

Kris


From alvsky at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 11:52:29 2006
From: alvsky at gmail.com (Alan)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:52:29 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list protection
Message-ID: <4450945D.3020801@gmail.com>

Hi,
Is there a way to protect the list in a way that ONLY admin can send 
mails to the list.
Maybe with password in Subject or in some other way.

Regards
Alan


From KUJALA at jylk.jyu.fi  Thu Apr 27 15:56:47 2006
From: KUJALA at jylk.jyu.fi (Osmo Kujala)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:56:47 +0200 (EET)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Charset problem. cmd_confirm assumes ascii code.
Message-ID: <01M1RAWBKNMMECWZZ9@jylk.jyu.fi>



Hello

We have problem with confirm mail when mail body contains
characters out of ascii code (range(128)). Mailman version
is 2.1.5 . I think Mailman could leave the body unread
when Subject contains the confirm code or at least it should
stop to "end" line. If Mailman wants to check through the body
it would be fair not to bug with the non-ascii codes.
People have auto-signatures with different character codes and
they may have automatic copy of the original mail as citation
(quotation). Mailmans request for confirmation contains non-ascii
code if the language code of the list is such.

Excerpt of the error log:

Apr 26 12:53:40 2006 (11216) Uncaught runner exception: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 3: ordinal not in range(128)
Apr 26 12:53:40 2006 (11216) Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 111, in _oneloop
    self._onefile(msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/Runner.py", line 167, in _onefile
    keepqueued = self._dispose(mlist, msg, msgdata)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 237, in _dispose
    res.process()
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 110, in process
    stop = self.do_command(cmd, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 135, in do_command
    return self.do_command(cmd, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Queue/CommandRunner.py", line 137, in do_command
    return handler.process(self, args)
  File "/usr/lib/mailman/Mailman/Commands/cmd_confirm.py", line 86, in process
    if line.lstrip() == match:
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xe4 in position 3: ordinal not in range(128)

Apr 26 12:53:40 2006 (11216) SHUNTING: 1146045219.7761891+6b2f2afceea57f26e6a9302e6a615bbd8266d493


Copy of the shunted file:

/usr/lib~mailman/bin/dumpdb -p /var/spool/mailman/shunt/1146045219.7761891+6b2f2afceea57f26e6a9302e6a615bbd8266d493.pck

[----- start pickle file -----]
<----- start object 1 ----->
>From KUJALA at jylk.jyu.fi Wed Apr 26 12:53:39 2006
Received: from posti1.jyu.fi (posti1.jyu.fi [130.234.4.32])
        by lists.jyu.fi (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id k3Q9rdOt029242
        for <ok-testi-request at lists.jyu.fi>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:53:39 +0300
Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])
        by posti1.jyu.fi (8.13.6/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k3Q9rdAc030411
        for <ok-testi-request at lists.jyu.fi>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:53:39 +0300
Received: from jylk.jyu.fi (jylk.jyu.fi [130.234.4.141])
        by posti1.jyu.fi (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id k3Q9rcUj030404
        for <ok-testi-request at lists.jyu.fi>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:53:38 +0300
Received: from jylk.jyu.fi by jylk.jyu.fi (PMDF V4.3-7 #2482)
        id <01M1PGKIPOB4ECWZZ9 at jylk.jyu.fi>; Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:54:35 EET
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:54:11 +0200 (EET)
From: Osmo Kujala <KUJALA at jylk.jyu.fi>
Subject: Re: confirm 8e7af57ba7a721f68c96b0111f988ad36c8804f7
In-reply-to: Your message dated "Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:52:38 +0300"
        <mailman.0.1146045158.29214.ok-testi at lists.jyu.fi>
To: ok-testi-request at lists.jyu.fi
Message-id: <01M1PQ8OVNMYECWZZ9 at jylk.jyu.fi>
X-Envelope-to: ok-testi-request at lists.jyu.fi
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=ISO-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: 8BIT
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at cc.jyu.fi
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-5.794 required=5 tests=[ALL_TRUSTED=-3.3, AWL=0.105,
        BAYES_00=-2.599]
X-Spam-Level:


end

123?
23456? ??


<----- start object 2 ----->
{   '_parsemsg': False,
    'lang': 'en',
    'listname': 'ok-testi',
    'received_time': 1146045219.7761891,
    'torequest': 1,
    'version': 3,
    'whichq': '/var/spool/mailman/commands'}
[----- end pickle file -----]


What's especially nasty is that the waiting time for confirmation
stops with this error and the entry disappears from the list.
So it's hard to find out what happened.

I tried to find help from mailman-users archives. Found some
identical cases from years 2003 and 2004 by searching keywords
"ascii ordinal confirm" but no solution to the problem.

best regars

Osmo Kujala   (Sorry about the typo's and I hope the scandinavian
               characters won't stop you reading this)


From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 16:35:55 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:35:55 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <44506B64.1020104@reefnet.ca>
Message-ID: <PC174020060427073555014084ff8f63@msapiro>

Kris Wilk wrote:
>
>B-I-N-G-O (I think)! The smtp-failure log has entries like:
>
>Seems like SMTP is rejecting mail that is supposed to have come from 
>"mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca". That address does not - and never did - 
>exist as a real account as far as I know. In the past (when all was 
>working) the server must have been configured with less stringent sender 
>verification, or some exception for "mailman-" addresses.


Yes. Your analysis seems correct. Mailman generated messages are always
sent from <the site list>-bounces at domain.

The only thing that puzzles me is that should also be true for the
relay of the messages you sent to -owner so why did they go through?
If you send a message to -owner, what do you see in the received
message in any Return-Path: or Sender: headers?


>Sure enough, if I temporarily create an account "mailman-bounces at ...", 
>everything starts working as expected. Not sure if that's the "proper" 
>solution...I'm guessing I don't really need the account, but rather an 
>SMTP rule of some sort to allow the necessary sender addresses.


At least you have a workaround for the interim.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 16:45:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 07:45:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Mailing list protection
In-Reply-To: <4450945D.3020801@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC174020060427074541098420b3ac41@msapiro>

Alan wrote:

>Is there a way to protect the list in a way that ONLY admin can send 
>mails to the list.
>Maybe with password in Subject or in some other way.


See the FAQ
>Mailman FAQ: http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py

Articles 3.11 and 3.34

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Thu Apr 27 17:26:16 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:26:16 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 16:04 +0100, Richard Barrett wrote:
> And your point is?
> 
> Of course I be deluded and imagining the error response I got back  
> but then again 17 days is a long time in the life of a file's  
> permissions.

Indeed.  After I sent my response, I noticed that your original message
had been sent a while ago.

> Richard
> 
> btw: I think I have seen comments about the same problem in recent  
> postings to the recent mailman-user archives by other users. Can  
> anyone confirm whether they have seen a similar problem or is it just  
> me being picked on by the FAQ wizard.

The only thing I can recommend is to contact the Python webmasters
(webmaster at python.org) to see if they're aware of any problems.  I'm not
sure if there are logs or anything that they can check.  Maybe it's a
problem with the specific issue (as opposed to a general problem).  What
issue were you trying to edit?

-Barry

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From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 17:39:30 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:39:30 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <PC174020060427083930051523f6b041@msapiro>

Barry Warsaw wrote:
>
>The only thing I can recommend is to contact the Python webmasters
>(webmaster at python.org) to see if they're aware of any problems.  I'm not
>sure if there are logs or anything that they can check.  Maybe it's a
>problem with the specific issue (as opposed to a general problem).  What
>issue were you trying to edit?

It's not the specific entry. In my case (which I'm reposting below for
mailman-users), there were 4 different entries involved, three edits
of existing entries and one new entry (or maybe 2 and 2 - I'm not sure
now).

<quote>
I first encountered this issue a month or so ago. The second time it
happened, I posted a short note to mailman-users. A few days later, it
started working again and I was able to make my two changes. Then a
week or two after that, I got the permission problem again, and a few
days later it went away again. I haven't tried since.
</quote>

I will send a note to webmaster at python.org and see what they say.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 17:50:38 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 08:50:38 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Permission problem updating Mailman FAQ
Message-ID: <PC1740200604270850380546cf33e288@msapiro>

To: webmaster at python.org

During the past month or so, there have been at least two periods of a
few days or more each during which any attempts to commit changes to
the Mailman FAQ <http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py> have
produced errors like the following:

Sorry, an error occurred
Can't write file faq01.011.htp ([Errno 13] Permission denied:  
'faq01.011.htp'). 

During the periods that this has been occurring the same error (except
for file name) occurs on any commit of changes to an existing entry or
addition of a new entry.

It appears to be working OK now, but at least once before, it started
working again and then the problem reappeared for a few days.

Can you shed any light on what was happening?

Can you suggest a procedure to follow if this occurs again.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kclair at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 18:07:33 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (kristina clair)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:07:33 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.8
Message-ID: <dff375270604270907p7b93500clcd9192634ec6e2f3@mail.gmail.com>

Hi - just a quick question:

In the UPGRADING file in the tarball for mailman 2.1.8, there are no
notes for upgrading to 2.1.8.  Is that because there is nothing to
look out for?  I'm upgrading from 2.1.5.

Thanks!
Kristina


From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Thu Apr 27 17:04:33 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:04:33 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>

And your point is?

Of course I be deluded and imagining the error response I got back  
but then again 17 days is a long time in the life of a file's  
permissions.

Richard

btw: I think I have seen comments about the same problem in recent  
postings to the recent mailman-user archives by other users. Can  
anyone confirm whether they have seen a similar problem or is it just  
me being picked on by the FAQ wizard.

On 27 Apr 2006, at 15:32, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> On Mon, 2006-04-10 at 00:53 +0100, Richard Barrett wrote:
>> Sorry, an error occurred
>> Can't write file faq01.011.htp ([Errno 13] Permission denied:
>> 'faq01.011.htp').
>
> I just tried editing item 1.29 and it worked for me.
>
> -Barry
>



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 18:17:01 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 09:17:01 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] upgrading from 2.1.5 -> 2.1.8
In-Reply-To: <dff375270604270907p7b93500clcd9192634ec6e2f3@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604270917010734200db0ff@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:
>
>In the UPGRADING file in the tarball for mailman 2.1.8, there are no
>notes for upgrading to 2.1.8.  Is that because there is nothing to
>look out for?  I'm upgrading from 2.1.5.


There are no specific caveats for upgrading from 2.1.5 to a later
release (through 2.1.8). Basically, the generic "UPGRADING FROM
PREVIOUS VERSIONS" section is all you should need.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk  Thu Apr 27 19:35:29 2006
From: r.barrett at openinfo.co.uk (Richard Barrett)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 18:35:29 +0100
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <0D712A09-3265-4DF9-88FF-2A411DCDAE94@openinfo.co.uk>

On 27 Apr 2006, at 16:26, Barry Warsaw wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 16:04 +0100, Richard Barrett wrote:
>> And your point is?
>>
>> Of course I be deluded and imagining the error response I got back
>> but then again 17 days is a long time in the life of a file's
>> permissions.
>
> Indeed.  After I sent my response, I noticed that your original  
> message
> had been sent a while ago.
>
>> Richard
>>
>> btw: I think I have seen comments about the same problem in recent
>> postings to the recent mailman-user archives by other users. Can
>> anyone confirm whether they have seen a similar problem or is it just
>> me being picked on by the FAQ wizard.
>
> The only thing I can recommend is to contact the Python webmasters
> (webmaster at python.org) to see if they're aware of any problems.   
> I'm not
> sure if there are logs or anything that they can check.  Maybe it's a
> problem with the specific issue (as opposed to a general problem).   
> What
> issue were you trying to edit?
>
> -Barry
>

The reason the mailman-cabal at python.org got emailed about the problem  
was that the footers on the Mailman FAQ says "Feedback to Mailman FAQ  
Owner" and "FAQ Owner" is in an anchor tag with href value  
mailto:mailman-cabal at python.org

Unfortunately I am given to taking things literally and my MUA  
thought it seemed like a good idea at the time.



From ngroot at imsa.edu  Thu Apr 27 17:40:03 2006
From: ngroot at imsa.edu (Neal Groothuis)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:40:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender field
Message-ID: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu>

To reopen an old discussion:

I would like to request that a feature be added in the next version of
Mailman to allow a list administrator to disable rewriting of the
"Sender:" header, or (better) for this behavior to be eliminated from
Mailman altogether.

Rationale:

  - Outlook treats the Sender field as a person sending on behalf of
another.  This seems to me to be a reasonable interpretation of the
Sender field, per RFC 2822 3.6.2.  When a "bounces" address is included
in the sender field, Outlook displays something along the lines of "From
listname-bounces+jim=reader.domain.com at mailman.server.com On behalf of
fred at poster.domain.com".  (See Mailman FAQ entry 2.3).  This is undesirable.

  - Thunderbird also displays the sender field, which presents similar
confusion.

  - Useful information (the original content of the Sender: header) is
lost by doing this.

  - Bounces go to the envelope sender or Return-Path: header, not the
Sender: header, so this is not necessary for proper bounce handling.

  - Again from RFC 2822 3.6.2, the Sender: header should contain the
address of the agent responsible for transmitting the message, meaning
that a person who sends mail to the address in that header should expect
to reach said agent, not suggest to Mailman that a message bounced.

  - Information regarding interacting with the list is provided by the
List-* headers; including it in the Sender: field is unnecessary.


Removing this (IMO) unwanted functionality is trivial:

diff -ru mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py 
mailman-2.1.5/Mailman
/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py
--- mailman-2.1.5.orig/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py   2004-01-22 
17:02:07.0000
00000 -0600
+++ mailman-2.1.5/Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py        2006-04-26 
13:48:45.0000
00000 -0500
@@ -348,9 +348,9 @@
      # the Sender header at all.  Brad Knowles points out that MTAs tend to
      # wipe existing Return-Path headers, and old MTAs may still honor
      # Errors-To while new ones will at worst ignore the header.
-    del msg['sender']
+    # del msg['sender']
      del msg['errors-to']
-    msg['Sender'] = envsender
+    # msg['Sender'] = envsender
      msg['Errors-To'] = envsender
      # Get the plain, flattened text of the message, sans unixfrom
      msgtext = msg.as_string()


From kclair at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 20:09:57 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (kristina clair)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:09:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
Message-ID: <dff375270604271109v4720e3c1t6b04a996f0444ee7@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,

I've noticed that changing the language preference for a list will
change the character set for the list pages, but not for the archives.
 Do I need to modify the archive templates in order to have the
archive pages use the same character set?  Or is there another way?

Thanks,
Kristina


From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Thu Apr 27 20:25:46 2006
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:25:46 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
Message-ID: <44510CAA.2010709@libero.it>

Hi.

As a response to the "set show" command, I obtain:

delivery off (a causa degli errori il Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:21:46 -0000)
             cause of errors on


I've tried to send a "delivery on" command, but this seems not to work.
What's the problem?

Only the administrator can fix this?



Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo


From kris at reefnet.ca  Thu Apr 27 20:28:53 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:28:53 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060427073555014084ff8f63@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060427073555014084ff8f63@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44510D65.8080307@reefnet.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Yes. Your analysis seems correct. Mailman generated messages are always
> sent from <the site list>-bounces at domain.
> 
> The only thing that puzzles me is that should also be true for the
> relay of the messages you sent to -owner so why did they go through?
> If you send a message to -owner, what do you see in the received
> message in any Return-Path: or Sender: headers?

Now we're getting somewhere...

Below is the full content of a message I just sent to 
"fubar-owner at reefnet.ca". See if this logic makes sense:

1) -owner has worked all along. Looking at the message, the Return-Path: 
is "mailman-bounces at cheiron...". cheiron is the name of the shared 
server my site is on. I suspect SMTP is configured to allow 
"mailman-bounces at cheiron..." as a sender.

2) My test yesterday showed that "mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca" (my own 
domain) was being rejected as a sender.

Is it possible that Mailman is using these two different addresses for 
the -owner and -admin situations? Would that explain why one has been 
working and the other not?

Kris

***********

Return-path: <mailman-bounces at cheiron.multisite.site5.com>
Envelope-to: kris at reefnet.ca
Delivery-date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:13:31 -0400
Received: from reefnetc by cheiron.multisite.site5.com with local-bsmtp 
(Exim 4.52)
	id 1FZAzb-0000OP-9e
	for kris at reefnet.ca; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:13:31 -0400
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.1 (2006-03-10) on
	cheiron.multisite.site5.com
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-104.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00,
	USER_IN_WHITELIST autolearn=ham version=3.1.1
Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=cheiron.multisite.site5.com)
	by cheiron.multisite.site5.com with esmtp (Exim 4.52)
	id 1FZAzb-0000OJ-0M
	for kris at reefnet.ca; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:13:31 -0400
Received: from [70.24.174.109] (helo=[192.168.1.99])
	by cheiron.multisite.site5.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256)
	(Exim 4.52) id 1FZAzY-0000Nh-Sr
	for fubar-owner at reefnet.ca; Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:13:29 -0400
Message-ID: <445109D3.3070208 at reefnet.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:13:39 -0400
From: Kris Wilk <kris at reefnet.ca>
Organization: ReefNet Inc.
User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.2 (Windows/20060308)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: fubar-owner at reefnet.ca
Subject: Test message to fubar-owner
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV.
Errors-To: mailman-bounces at cheiron.multisite.site5.com
X-Antivirus-Scanner: This message has been scanned by ClamAV.

This is a test.


From haack at nclack.k12.or.us  Thu Apr 27 20:05:44 2006
From: haack at nclack.k12.or.us (Robert Haack)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 11:05:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Footer
Message-ID: <445107F8.8050705@nclack.k12.or.us>

We've just recently noticed that on messages that come through the 
mailing list that the message footer is appended to the end of the 
message and also as an attachment in the message.  I want the footer to 
appear at the bottom of the message but not as an attachment.  Is there 
anyway to prevent this from happening?

Thanks

-- 
Robert Haack
Programmer Analyst
North Clackamas School District
haack at nclack.k12.or.us
503-353-6100



From msapiro at value.net  Thu Apr 27 21:21:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:21:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
In-Reply-To: <44510CAA.2010709@libero.it>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604271221250171473b0764@msapiro>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
>
>As a response to the "set show" command, I obtain:
>
>delivery off (a causa degli errori il Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:21:46 -0000)
>             cause of errors on
>
>
>I've tried to send a "delivery on" command, but this seems not to work.
>What's the problem?


Did you include a

set authenticate <your member password>

preceding the

set delivery on

command?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From simba at vmailtest.ao.net  Thu Apr 27 22:41:42 2006
From: simba at vmailtest.ao.net (Scott Garron)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:41:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can mm_cfg.py use includes?
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060426222118076542ca98af@msapiro>
References: <52282.68.204.166.121.1146111304.squirrel@zazu.ao.net>
	<PC174020060426222118076542ca98af@msapiro>
Message-ID: <34402.205.244.242.68.1146170502.squirrel@vmailtest.ao.net>

> You can't just put an add_virtualhost('a','b') line in a file and
> import it into mm_cfg.py, because 'add_virtualhost' is undefined in
> the file you're importing.

     Makes sense.  I was able to get it working by simply adding "from
Defaults import add_virtualhost" to the top of my vmail_cfg.py file. 
Thanks for your input!

--
Scott 'Simba' Garron



From pdbogen at gmail.com  Thu Apr 27 23:22:27 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:22:27 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message Footer
In-Reply-To: <445107F8.8050705@nclack.k12.or.us>
References: <445107F8.8050705@nclack.k12.or.us>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604271422k1d513e71gafa61ce87ad09d09@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/27/06, Robert Haack <haack at nclack.k12.or.us> wrote:
> appear at the bottom of the message but not as an attachment.  Is there
> anyway to prevent this from happening?

I can't be certain, but it may be that it's being sent as part of a
MIME multi-part message, and your mail client happens to render it
both as an attachment, and then again at the bottom of the text.

The "solution" to this is.. to not send multi-part MIME messages,
which can be tricky.

Refer to FAQ 4.39 for a more thorough explanation of these issues:
http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq04.039.htp


--
- Patrick Bogen


From dewey at ku.edu  Thu Apr 27 23:50:42 2006
From: dewey at ku.edu (Dewhirst, Rob)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:50:42 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting options for a list of users?
Message-ID: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72303B248BA@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>

Is there a way I can automate setting nomail and norepro for a bunch of
users at once?  add_members lets me set digest but not the other
options.


From pdbogen at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 00:10:34 2006
From: pdbogen at gmail.com (Patrick Bogen)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:10:34 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] setting options for a list of users?
In-Reply-To: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72303B248BA@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
References: <C9F4FE51E4DB3B4EBCA6B115331EB72303B248BA@MAILBOXTWO.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <6fbe3da00604271510o350171d9g209a6911e9122dfc@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/27/06, Dewhirst, Rob <dewey at ku.edu> wrote:
> Is there a way I can automate setting nomail and norepro for a bunch of
> users at once?  add_members lets me set digest but not the other
> options.

Certainly, bin/withlist can accomplish this. I don't know if there's
an easier way.


--
- Patrick Bogen


From gary.chris at comcast.net  Fri Apr 28 01:52:22 2006
From: gary.chris at comcast.net (Gary Hall)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:52:22 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the to and from addresses are the same
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604261901580750212bb148@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604261901580750212bb148@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44515936.20604@comcast.net>

We are currently using Mailman to just send out notices to our
customers. There is no way they can post at this time and that is fine.

The problem we are experiencing is that the from address is correct BUT
the "To" address is the same as the "From" address.

I would like the "To" address to that of the person receiving the notice.

I bet it is in the FAQ's but I can't find it.

You help would be appreciated.

Warm regards,

Gary



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 02:37:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:37:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <44510D65.8080307@reefnet.ca>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042717372500319f372e58@msapiro>

Kris Wilk wrote:
>
>1) -owner has worked all along. Looking at the message, the Return-Path: 
>is "mailman-bounces at cheiron...". cheiron is the name of the shared 
>server my site is on. I suspect SMTP is configured to allow 
>"mailman-bounces at cheiron..." as a sender.
>
>2) My test yesterday showed that "mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca" (my own 
>domain) was being rejected as a sender.
>
>Is it possible that Mailman is using these two different addresses for 
>the -owner and -admin situations? Would that explain why one has been 
>working and the other not?


No. It has nothing to do with -owner vs. -admin. Mailman never sends to
-admin.

The reason is this.

When an external message is sent to the -owner address, the
scripts/owner script that queues the message to be sent to the owner
specifies the envelope sender by calling
Mailman.Utils.get_site_email(extra='bounces') function which in this
case returns <sitelist>-bounces at DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST which in your case
is mailman-bounces at cheiron...

When a message to the owner is created within Mailman it is created as
an instance of the Mailman.Message.OwnerNotification() class which
specifies the envelope sender by calling
Mailman.Utils.get_site_email(mlist.host_name, 'bounces') which returns
<sitelist>-bounces at mlist.host_name which in your case is
mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca.

Bottom line - external messages to -owner are different from internally
crafted notices to the owner. The former have envelope sender of
<sitelist>-bounces@<the site default email domain> and the latter have
envelope sender of <sitelist>-bounces@<the list's host_name>.

Nothing has changed in the way these messages from Mailman have been
sent. What changed is the host's outgoing SMTP server started
rejecting messages with envelope sender of mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca
while continuing to accept those with envelope sender of
mailman-bounces at cheiron...

This created a symptom which was highly confusing to say the least.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 02:46:03 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:46:03 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] the to and from addresses are the same
In-Reply-To: <44515936.20604@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604271746030453c7bce1c8@msapiro>

Gary Hall wrote:
>
>I would like the "To" address to that of the person receiving the notice.
>
>I bet it is in the FAQ's but I can't find it.


It's
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq03.015.htp>.

What did you look for that didn't find it? (So we can make it more
findable.)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kris at reefnet.ca  Fri Apr 28 04:06:19 2006
From: kris at reefnet.ca (Kris Wilk)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:06:19 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] "-owner" works, "-admin" doesn't...
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042717372500319f372e58@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006042717372500319f372e58@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4451789B.3020202@reefnet.ca>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Bottom line - external messages to -owner are different from internally
> crafted notices to the owner. The former have envelope sender of
> <sitelist>-bounces@<the site default email domain> and the latter have
> envelope sender of <sitelist>-bounces@<the list's host_name>.
> 
> Nothing has changed in the way these messages from Mailman have been
> sent. What changed is the host's outgoing SMTP server started
> rejecting messages with envelope sender of mailman-bounces at reefnet.ca
> while continuing to accept those with envelope sender of
> mailman-bounces at cheiron...
> 
> This created a symptom which was highly confusing to say the least.

If you got confused, then I don't feel bad about being so befuddled. :)

I think the case is finally closed on this. Your very prompt and precise 
help has been invaluable!

Kris


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 04:51:40 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 19:51:40 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <dff375270604271109v4720e3c1t6b04a996f0444ee7@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042719514007659f373145@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:
>
>I've noticed that changing the language preference for a list will
>change the character set for the list pages, but not for the archives.
> Do I need to modify the archive templates in order to have the
>archive pages use the same character set?  Or is there another way?

It depends which archive pages you're talking about. The table of
contents is rebuilt with every message and should be OK. The periodic
(monthly) index pages are only rebuilt when a post is added so old
periods are not usually updated. The html message pages themselves are
never updated.

Thus if you make changes that affect these such as changing the list
language, you have to rebuild the archives to update most of the html
pages. See

bin/arch --help

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 05:31:47 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 20:31:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender field
In-Reply-To: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042720314702039f372f1a@msapiro>

Neal Groothuis wrote:
>
>I would like to request that a feature be added in the next version of
>Mailman to allow a list administrator to disable rewriting of the
>"Sender:" header, or (better) for this behavior to be eliminated from
>Mailman altogether.


The best place to make this kind of request is in FeatureRequests in
the sourceforge.net tracker, and it is already there at
http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1460796&group_id=103&atid=350103.
Please look at that item and add your own comments as you wish.

Note however that there is motivation for keeping the Sender behavior
as is because there are still broken MTAs that will return bounces to
the Sender:, so anything that actually is implemented would likely be
an option with current behavior as the default.

Also, RFC 2822 arguably requires a Sender: header in the case of a list
sending mail on behalf of a poster.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From kclair at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 06:26:36 2006
From: kclair at gmail.com (kristina clair)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 21:26:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042719514007659f373145@msapiro>
References: <dff375270604271109v4720e3c1t6b04a996f0444ee7@mail.gmail.com>
	<PC17402006042719514007659f373145@msapiro>
Message-ID: <dff375270604272126o41e2be7ds863bff571aeab6db@mail.gmail.com>

On 4/27/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> kristina clair wrote:
> >
> >I've noticed that changing the language preference for a list will
> >change the character set for the list pages, but not for the archives.
> > Do I need to modify the archive templates in order to have the
> >archive pages use the same character set?  Or is there another way?
>
> It depends which archive pages you're talking about. The table of
> contents is rebuilt with every message and should be OK. The periodic
> (monthly) index pages are only rebuilt when a post is added so old
> periods are not usually updated. The html message pages themselves are
> never updated.
>
> Thus if you make changes that affect these such as changing the list
> language, you have to rebuild the archives to update most of the html
> pages. See
>
> bin/arch --help

Hmmm, I just regenerated the archives, and the table of contents page
looks the same.  According to the html header, the page is using
charset utf-8, so the text is just a lot of symbols.  The main list
info page has cyrillic characters, but no charset specified in the
html.  I think what this particular list manager wants is for the
archive page to show cyrillic characters - is that possible?

I'm not entirely sure which language he has selected because
everything is in the other language (even the output of
bin/config_list?), but if I'm reading the cyrillic right then it might
be Ukrainian.

Thanks,
Kristina


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Apr 28 05:46:20 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:46:20 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender field
In-Reply-To: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu>
Message-ID: <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>

At 10:40 AM -0500 2006-04-27, Neal Groothuis wrote:

>  I would like to request that a feature be added in the next version of
>  Mailman to allow a list administrator to disable rewriting of the
>  "Sender:" header, or (better) for this behavior to be eliminated from
>  Mailman altogether.

	Have you filed an RFE at the appropriate SourceForge page for Mailman?

>   - Outlook treats the Sender field as a person sending on behalf of
>  another.  This seems to me to be a reasonable interpretation of the
>  Sender field, per RFC 2822 3.6.2.  When a "bounces" address is included
>  in the sender field, Outlook displays something along the lines of "From
>  listname-bounces+jim=reader.domain.com at mailman.server.com On behalf of
>  fred at poster.domain.com".  (See Mailman FAQ entry 2.3).  This is undesirable.

	This is an MUA problem.  See FAQ 2.3.

>   - Useful information (the original content of the Sender: header) is
>  lost by doing this.

	If the previous value of the "Sender:" field is being lost, then 
that should be corrected.  At the very least, the value should be 
saved in an "Old-Sender:" or "Previous-Sender:" or some other 
suitable renamed sender field.

>   - Bounces go to the envelope sender or Return-Path: header, not the
>  Sender: header, so this is not necessary for proper bounce handling.

	Mailman does not modify this header for the purpose of routing 
bounces to the appropriate place.  Mailman modifies this header 
because the original "From:" header is left unchanged and the RFC 
specifies that we should indicate when the message has been forwarded 
or sent by someone/something else on behalf of the entity in the 
"From:" field.

>   - Again from RFC 2822 3.6.2, the Sender: header should contain the
>  address of the agent responsible for transmitting the message, meaning
>  that a person who sends mail to the address in that header should expect
>  to reach said agent, not suggest to Mailman that a message bounced.

	Right.  Mailman is the agent responsible for transmitting the 
message, and this needs to be reflected.  However, we want to make 
sure to capture any potential messages that may be routed to the 
"Sender:" field and have them automatically processed through the 
part of the system that is designed to do that sort of thing.

>   - Information regarding interacting with the list is provided by the
>  List-* headers; including it in the Sender: field is unnecessary.

	No, it is necessary.  It's required by the RFCs.

>  Removing this (IMO) unwanted functionality is trivial:

	The problem is that you said you wanted to implement an option to 
allow people to turn it off, not to rip this feature completely out 
of the system.

	Implementing the option and putting in the necessary UI features 
so that site and list administrators can choose whether or not to 
modify the headers in this way is a considerably more complex task 
than just ripping out a feature you don't like.


	Give us some suitable code to make this feature optional and 
controllable by the site admin (and something that can be delegated 
to the list admin), and you'll have a much better chance of getting 
someone to pay attention to your request.

	Otherwise, keep applying the patch to each new version of Mailman 
as you install it.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 07:11:25 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 22:11:25 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] language encoding for archives
In-Reply-To: <dff375270604272126o41e2be7ds863bff571aeab6db@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604272211250406c7bce1af@msapiro>

kristina clair wrote:

>On 4/27/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
>>
>> It depends which archive pages you're talking about. The table of
>> contents is rebuilt with every message and should be OK. The periodic
>> (monthly) index pages are only rebuilt when a post is added so old
>> periods are not usually updated. The html message pages themselves are
>> never updated.
>>
>> Thus if you make changes that affect these such as changing the list
>> language, you have to rebuild the archives to update most of the html
>> pages. See
>>
>> bin/arch --help
>
>Hmmm, I just regenerated the archives, and the table of contents page
>looks the same.


As I said above, the table of contents is rebuilt with every message,
so rebuilding the archive won't change it unless there were no
messages since the language change.

>According to the html header, the page is using
>charset utf-8, so the text is just a lot of symbols.  The main list
>info page has cyrillic characters, but no charset specified in the
>html.  I think what this particular list manager wants is for the
>archive page to show cyrillic characters - is that possible?
>
>I'm not entirely sure which language he has selected because
>everything is in the other language (even the output of
>bin/config_list?), but if I'm reading the cyrillic right then it might
>be Ukrainian.


If the list language is Ukranian, the character set should be utf-8.
One potential issue is that the web server can be overriding this with
its own Content-Transfer-Encoding: header that specifies something
other than utf-8.

See the material near the bottom of the page at
<http://www.list.org/mailman-install/node10.html>.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Fri Apr 28 10:03:55 2006
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 06:03:55 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604271221250171473b0764@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604271221250171473b0764@msapiro>
Message-ID: <4451CC6B.5020002@libero.it>

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> Manlio Perillo wrote:
>> As a response to the "set show" command, I obtain:
>>
>> delivery off (a causa degli errori il Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:21:46 -0000)
>>             cause of errors on
>>
>>
>> I've tried to send a "delivery on" command, but this seems not to work.
>> What's the problem?
> 
> 
> Did you include a
> 
> set authenticate <your member password>
> 
> preceding the
> 
> set delivery on
> 
> command?
> 

The first time no!
But I do this later, without effects.


Maybe I have to unsubscribe/subscribe?



Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo


From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 28 15:06:41 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:06:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <1146229601.10791.101.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 22:46 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	If the previous value of the "Sender:" field is being lost, then 
> that should be corrected.  At the very least, the value should be 
> saved in an "Old-Sender:" or "Previous-Sender:" or some other 
> suitable renamed sender field.

Probably Original-Sender:

-Barry

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From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 16:51:43 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 07:51:43 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
In-Reply-To: <4451CC6B.5020002@libero.it>
Message-ID: <PC174020060428075143060978e8a8ac@msapiro>

Manlio Perillo wrote:

>But I do this later, without effects.


Do you get any reply at all to your email?


>Maybe I have to unsubscribe/subscribe?


Can you visit your options page on the web and set delivery on there?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From manlio_perillo at libero.it  Fri Apr 28 17:32:08 2006
From: manlio_perillo at libero.it (Manlio Perillo)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:32:08 -0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
In-Reply-To: <PC174020060428075143060978e8a8ac@msapiro>
References: <PC174020060428075143060978e8a8ac@msapiro>
Message-ID: <44523578.2040408@libero.it>

Mark Sapiro ha scritto:
> Manlio Perillo wrote:
> 
>> But I do this later, without effects.
> 
> 
> Do you get any reply at all to your email?
> 

Yes:
- Risultati:
    Impostata opzione delivery

- Finito.

- Results:
    delivery option set

- End.


But a later set show gave always delivery off.

> 
>> Maybe I have to unsubscribe/subscribe?
> 
> 
> Can you visit your options page on the web and set delivery on there?

I've already solved by unsubscribe/subscribe.


I still don't understand the problem.
Mailman tried to send a response to my (ISP) MTA and failed?



Thanks and regards  Manlio Perillo


From louism at career-connect.com  Fri Apr 28 17:32:28 2006
From: louism at career-connect.com (Louis M.)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:32:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Headers
Message-ID: <001201c66ad8$f5a8fa10$0800a8c0@mis>


I apologize if this has been asked before, but I have googled day in and day
out so, if you could point me in the right direction:

All digests include the email information for each email such as:

	Message: 1
	Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:57:37 -0400
	From: Apache <apache at domain.com>
	Subject: Status- Client, Demo
	To: status_change at domain.com
	Message-ID: <200604251357.k3PDvbVl016819 at domain.com>

We are using our lists in an automated method, therefore it will always be
generated from an automated source so this information is irrelevant and
over the course of a digest with 200+ emails it adds up to be alot of
unnecessary overhead.

Where can I go to remove it. Even if it is a global change. I was poking
around in the Handlers Directory, but am not sure if there is a better place
to do this.

Thanks in advance for your expert advice.



Louis Meunier
MIS
Career Connections
169 Central Ave
Albany, NY 12206
p.518.689.2148
f.518.689.2385





From ngroot at imsa.edu  Fri Apr 28 18:02:11 2006
From: ngroot at imsa.edu (Neal Groothuis)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:02:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender field
In-Reply-To: <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>

It does not appear that Mailman modifies the "Sender:" field to comply 
with RFC 2822.  The list-bounces address is not the mailbox of the agent 
responsible for transmitting the message, as required in section 3.6.2. 
  The mailbox of the agent responsible for the transmission of the 
message would be the list-owner address.

Mailman's use the "Sender:" field does not seem to be in line with the 
intent of the RFC, nor with current usage of the field.   The example 
given in the RFC is of a secretary sending an email on behalf of someone 
else.  Outlook obviously interprets it this way.  Some versions of 
Thunderbird display both the Sender: and From: lines to the user, which 
may prove confusing if the Sender: address is not a person or an obvious 
alias for one.  Gmail uses it if you choose a "From" address that is not 
your gmail.com address.

Further, if Mailman is going to change the "Sender:" field, it should 
add Resent-* headers, per section 3.6.6 of RFC 2822; otherwise, the 
original sender information is lost.  The RFC does say that this is to 
be used when "users" reintroduce a message into the system, further 
providing evidence that automated components of the mail routing system 
shouldn't be changing these.  (Note that MTAs don't change the Sender: 
field, despite being, by their nature, agents responsible for 
transmission of messages.)

RFC 2369 provides headers which are to be used by mail list software to 
identify the various ways of interacting with the list, and Mailman 
already adds them.  This makes adding this information to the Sender: 
field redundant.

Based on all of this, Mark's note that there are some MTAs which bounce 
to the Sender: address is the only reason that I've seen why this 
behavior should continue.  Does anyone know what MTAs these are, or if 
they're even still in use?  If these buggy MTAs are common, I would 
suggest that an option be added to the list to enable this behavior, 
marked as an accomodation for buggy MTAs, and defaulting to "off".  I'll 
see if I can scrounge up the time to submit a patch to accomplish this, 
if it'll actually get included in a future release; otherwise I won't 
waste my time.  If these MTAs are not in use, I stand by my original 
recommendation to comment out/remove the two lines responsible for the 
behavior.

At any rate, the "keep patching" suggestion is unhelpful.   This is 
obviously a problem that many people are running into, enough that 
there's a FAQ entry about it.  It should be addressed.

From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 28 18:04:01 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:04:01 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <0D712A09-3265-4DF9-88FF-2A411DCDAE94@openinfo.co.uk>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<0D712A09-3265-4DF9-88FF-2A411DCDAE94@openinfo.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1146240241.10793.112.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 18:35 +0100, Richard Barrett wrote:

> The reason the mailman-cabal at python.org got emailed about the problem  
> was that the footers on the Mailman FAQ says "Feedback to Mailman FAQ  
> Owner" and "FAQ Owner" is in an anchor tag with href value  
> mailto:mailman-cabal at python.org
> 
> Unfortunately I am given to taking things literally and my MUA  
> thought it seemed like a good idea at the time.

That's fine.  I'm not going to worry about changing that, since at some
point the FAQ should be moved to the new Wiki.  (Any volunteers?)

-Barry

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From dan at music.memphis.edu  Fri Apr 28 17:42:04 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:42:04 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Headers
In-Reply-To: <001201c66ad8$f5a8fa10$0800a8c0@mis>
References: <001201c66ad8$f5a8fa10$0800a8c0@mis>
Message-ID: <C5BA34D3-112C-45EF-8FB0-FA4952B28605@music.memphis.edu>

On Apr 28, 2006, at 10:32 AM, Louis M. wrote:
> I apologize if this has been asked before, but I have googled day  
> in and day
> out so, if you could point me in the right direction:
>
> All digests include the email information for each email such as:
>
> 	Message: 1
> 	Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:57:37 -0400
> 	From: Apache <apache at domain.com>
> 	Subject: Status- Client, Demo
> 	To: status_change at domain.com
> 	Message-ID: <200604251357.k3PDvbVl016819 at domain.com>
>
> We are using our lists in an automated method, therefore it will  
> always be
> generated from an automated source so this information is  
> irrelevant and
> over the course of a digest with 200+ emails it adds up to be alot of
> unnecessary overhead.
>
> Where can I go to remove it. Even if it is a global change. I was  
> poking
> around in the Handlers Directory, but am not sure if there is a  
> better place
> to do this.


 From Mailman/Defaults.py:

> # Headers which should be kept in both RFC 1153 (plain) and MIME  
> digests.  RFC
> # 1153 also specifies these headers in this exact order, so order  
> matters.
> MIME_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS = [
>     'Date', 'From', 'To', 'Cc', 'Subject', 'Message-ID', 'Keywords',
>     # I believe we should also keep these headers though.
>     'In-Reply-To', 'References', 'Content-Type', 'MIME-Version',
>     'Content-Transfer-Encoding', 'Precedence', 'Reply-To',
>     # Mailman 2.0 adds these headers
>     'Message',
>     ]
>
> PLAIN_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS = [
>     'Message', 'Date', 'From',
>     'Subject', 'To', 'Cc',
>     'Message-ID', 'Keywords',
>     'Content-Type',
>     ]

Copy this information into mm_cfg.py and make the changes there to  
eliminate unwanted fields.

Dan

====================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
dan at music.memphis.edu





From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 18:15:12 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:15:12 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] delivery off
In-Reply-To: <44523578.2040408@libero.it>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042809151201406107eeb8@msapiro>

Manlio Perillo wrote:
>
>But a later set show gave always delivery off.
>
<snip>
>
>I still don't understand the problem.
>Mailman tried to send a response to my (ISP) MTA and failed?


Maybe these are related. What are the bounce settings for the list?
Does disable occur on the first bounce? Berhaps the MTA is reporting
some status that Mailman thinks is a bounce so your subscription is
enabled and then the reply to your commands "bounces" and you are
disabled again.

Check both Mailman's bounce and smtp-failure logs.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 18:24:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 09:24:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Headers
In-Reply-To: <001201c66ad8$f5a8fa10$0800a8c0@mis>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042809242604066107efd0@msapiro>

Louis M. wrote:
>
>All digests include the email information for each email such as:
>
<snip>
>
>Where can I go to remove it. Even if it is a global change.


see the mm_cfg.py options MIME_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS and
PLAIN_DIGEST_KEEP_HEADERS (described in Defaults.py).

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Fri Apr 28 19:29:24 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 10:29:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <1146229601.10791.101.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/28/06 6:06 AM, "Barry Warsaw" <barry at python.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 22:46 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> 
>> If the previous value of the "Sender:" field is being lost, then
>> that should be corrected.  At the very least, the value should be
>> saved in an "Old-Sender:" or "Previous-Sender:" or some other
>> suitable renamed sender field.
> 
> Probably Original-Sender:

Probably, indeed.  But what happens if that header was already "taken" in
the process that brought the message to mailman for distribution to the
list?

(As usual, I have only questions, not answers.)

  --John




From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Fri Apr 28 19:37:03 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:37:03 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <1146240241.10793.112.camel@resist.wooz.org>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<0D712A09-3265-4DF9-88FF-2A411DCDAE94@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146240241.10793.112.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <p0620070fc07802f8ca85@[192.168.1.65]>

At 12:04 PM -0400 2006-04-28, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  That's fine.  I'm not going to worry about changing that, since at some
>  point the FAQ should be moved to the new Wiki.  (Any volunteers?)

	The current FAQ Wizard has the advantage of simplicity and 
tracking all previous changes (in case things need to be rolled 
back).  Wikis, by their nature, are considerably more complex and at 
least some of them don't track changes.

	I'm not really looking forward to having all the FAQ stuff moved 
over to the wiki.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From ngroot at imsa.edu  Fri Apr 28 20:05:45 2006
From: ngroot at imsa.edu (Neal Groothuis)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:05:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>

John W. Baxter wrote:
> Probably, indeed.  But what happens if that header was already "taken" in
> the process that brought the message to mailman for distribution to the
> list?

As I noted in my previous response, I believe that the correct field (if 
Mailman were to add a "Sender:" header) to add would be "Resent-Sender". 
  Please see RFC 2822, section 3.6.6.  The "Resent-Sender" field may be 
multivalued, so this isn't a problem.  However, Mailman should not be 
modifying the Sender: field at all.

"Original-Sender" is a header used when gatewaying X.400 messages into 
RFC 822 messages for use in JNT mail networks.  It would not be 
appropriate for use here.



From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 28 20:08:28 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:08:28 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <1146247708.10788.122.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 10:29 -0700, John W. Baxter wrote:
> On 4/28/06 6:06 AM, "Barry Warsaw" <barry at python.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 2006-04-27 at 22:46 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:
> > 
> >> If the previous value of the "Sender:" field is being lost, then
> >> that should be corrected.  At the very least, the value should be
> >> saved in an "Old-Sender:" or "Previous-Sender:" or some other
> >> suitable renamed sender field.
> > 
> > Probably Original-Sender:
> 
> Probably, indeed.  But what happens if that header was already "taken" in
> the process that brought the message to mailman for distribution to the
> list?
> 
> (As usual, I have only questions, not answers.)

Original-Original-Sender:

(and so on, and so on... :)
-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Fri Apr 28 20:11:49 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:11:49 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-cabal] Cannot update Mailman FAQ
In-Reply-To: <p0620070fc07802f8ca85@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <2BBC7D67-54BC-4888-B433-DFBC05E944D2@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146148324.11237.111.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<F0AB1458-AD33-4B16-B535-CD4566DADA9F@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146151576.10752.140.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<0D712A09-3265-4DF9-88FF-2A411DCDAE94@openinfo.co.uk>
	<1146240241.10793.112.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<p0620070fc07802f8ca85@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <1146247909.10790.126.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 12:37 -0500, Brad Knowles wrote:

> 	The current FAQ Wizard has the advantage of simplicity and 
> tracking all previous changes (in case things need to be rolled 
> back).  Wikis, by their nature, are considerably more complex and at 
> least some of them don't track changes.
> 
> 	I'm not really looking forward to having all the FAQ stuff moved 
> over to the wiki.

Confluence tracks changes too, just not in RCS!  Yes, the wiki will be a
bit more complex,  but I think by not much and hopefully the benefits
will outweigh the added complexity.

The real advantage is that we'll have one less place where our artifacts
live (and one less system to maintain -- remember during the last Python
system move the FAQ wizard got lost in the shuffle for a while).

I'd like to at least /attempt/ to put a FAQ in the wiki.  If it really
sucks, we'll deal with it then.

-Barry

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From bob at nleaudio.com  Fri Apr 28 20:08:38 2006
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff@NLE)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:08:38 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
	<44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>
Message-ID: <44525A26.6000007@nleaudio.com>

Don't forget to consider things like SPF, which I think uses the sender field.  Whatever is used for 
SPF _must_ be the domain of the mailman box, or you're gonna run into a pack of trouble.

...Trouble similar to a current problem I am having with AOL: they are bouncing all email with the 
FROM: address of a specific AOL user, when mailman delivers the messages to -any- aol or cs.com 
address.  Its a very bad problem, because AOL is saying its a SPF problem, when it clearly isn't (as 
  other aol people can post to the list and receive their posts), and all the aol users are being 
automatically unsubscribed from lists that this guy posts on.  But I digress...

Bob

Neal Groothuis wrote:

 > It does not appear that Mailman modifies the "Sender:" field to comply with RFC 2822.  The 
list-bounces address is not the mailbox of the agent responsible for transmitting the message, as 
required in section 3.6.2.  The mailbox of the agent responsible for the transmission of the message 
would be the list-owner address.
 >
 > Mailman's use the "Sender:" field does not seem to be in line with the intent of the RFC, nor 
with current usage of the field.

<snip>


From adamsca at gmail.com  Fri Apr 28 21:20:02 2006
From: adamsca at gmail.com (Christopher Adams)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:20:02 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions error with 'make install'
Message-ID: <27572d930604281220m312f069fu78d0c03643366cfb@mail.gmail.com>

I am doing a new Mailman installation on Red Hat.

I am doing the install as a member of the Mailman group.

I have made sure that the installation directory can be written to by that
group.

I have run 'configure' and 'make' successfullly.

When I run 'make install', I get the following:

[chris at gatsby mailman-2.1.8]$ make install
Creating architecture independent directories...
chmod o-r /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
chmod: changing permissions of `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private':
Operation not permitted
make: *** [doinstall] Error 1

So, assuming that the problem was changing the permissions for the
archives/private directory, I made the change as root and then went back to
do the 'make install'. I get the same message, even though I manually had
changed the permissions.


If I run check_perms, I get this:

[root at gatsby bin]# ./check_perms
Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
         This could allow other users on your system to read private
archives.
         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
         installation manual on how to fix this.
No problems found


Can someone give me some suggestions?

--
Christopher Adams
adamsca at gmail.com


From qralston+ml.mailman-users at andrew.cmu.edu  Fri Apr 28 20:53:48 2006
From: qralston+ml.mailman-users at andrew.cmu.edu (James Ralston)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:53:48 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Sender field
In-Reply-To: <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <74581CA516FF252A4441207B@pcmy.sei.cmu.edu>

On 2006-04-27 at 22:46-05 Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> wrote:

> At 10:40 AM -0500 2006-04-27, Neal Groothuis wrote:
> 
> > Again from RFC 2822 3.6.2, the Sender: header should contain the
> > address of the agent responsible for transmitting the message,
> > meaning that a person who sends mail to the address in that header
> > should expect to reach said agent, not suggest to Mailman that a
> > message bounced.
> 
> Right.  Mailman is the agent responsible for transmitting the
> message, and this needs to be reflected.

This is not correct.  Quoting RFC2822 section 3.6.2:

    3.6.2. Originator fields

    The originator fields indicate the mailbox(es) of the source of
    the message.  The "From:" field specifies the author(s) of the
    message, that is, the mailbox(es) of the person(s) or system(s)
    responsible for the writing of the message.  The "Sender:" field
    specifies the mailbox of the agent responsible for the actual
    transmission of the message.  For example, if a secretary were to
    send a message for another person, the mailbox of the secretary
    would appear in the "Sender:" field and the mailbox of the actual
    author would appear in the "From:" field.

The Sender header should be employed by the orignator of the message,
and only the originator.  Mailman is not the originator of a message
sent to a list; it is merely a relay agent.

I will grant that the phrasing of the RFC is suboptimal here--it uses
"transmission" when a better word choice would have been "submission".
But the immediately proceeding example (of a secretary sending mail on
behalf of another person) clarifies the intent beyond any claim of
ambiguity.

> [Outlook's behavior] is an MUA problem.  See FAQ 2.3.

No, it's not.  As much as it pains me to say it, Outlook's behavior
matches perfectly the intent of the RFC.  It is Mailman's behavior of
rewriting the Sender header that is the problem.

> However, we want to make sure to capture any potential messages that
> may be routed to the "Sender:" field and have them automatically
> processed through the part of the system that is designed to do that
> sort of thing.

Mailman's "processing" behavior is to treat a reply to the Sender as a
bounce.  This is incorrect behavior, because many mail clients will
include address of the Sender header in a "reply-to-all" function,
causing Mailman to treat the reply as a bounce.

So, in summary, the disadvantages of Mailman's behavior of rewriting
the Sender header is that doing so is not in the intended spirit of
RFC2822, causes subscription grief, and breaks Outlook.  The advantage
is that it helps Mailman detect bounces from a slim minority of
brain-dead MTAs that send bounces to the Sender header.

> The problem is that you said you wanted to implement an option to
> allow people to turn it off, not to rip this feature completely out
> of the system.

I would argue that the best course of action is to excise Sender
header rewriting entirely and provide no option to turn it on.
(Mailman has way too many options already.)

If, however, an option is created to control the behavior, it should
definitely default to OFF (no Sender header rewriting), not on.

-- 
James Ralston, Information Technology
Software Engineering Institute
Carnegie Mellon University, Pittsburgh, PA, USA



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 21:42:20 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:42:20 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <DDE91D61-13E3-4476-9151-77689180834D@dreamhost.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604281242200140d8835660@msapiro>

Dallas Bethune wrote:

>For our uses just  
>changing that list-bounces address to something less ominous looking  
>would help.

It definitely looks to me as if something needs to be done. I think
perhaps offering 3 options either to the list admin on a per-list
basis with a site default or just a site option. I lean towards
per-list although it's more work to add to the GUI.

The options I see are

1) current behavior with perhaps the addition of putting the original
Sender: in another header.

2) like 1) only use list address instead of list-bounces.

3) don't touch Sender: at all.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Fri Apr 28 22:03:51 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:03:51 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] permissions error with 'make install'
In-Reply-To: <27572d930604281220m312f069fu78d0c03643366cfb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604281303510937f316a7bc@msapiro>

Christopher Adams wrote:
>
>I am doing the install as a member of the Mailman group.
>
>I have made sure that the installation directory can be written to by that
>group.
>
>I have run 'configure' and 'make' successfullly.
>
>When I run 'make install', I get the following:
>
>[chris at gatsby mailman-2.1.8]$ make install
>Creating architecture independent directories...
>chmod o-r /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
>chmod: changing permissions of `/usr/local/mailman/archives/private':
>Operation not permitted
>make: *** [doinstall] Error 1
>
>So, assuming that the problem was changing the permissions for the
>archives/private directory, I made the change as root and then went back to
>do the 'make install'. I get the same message, even though I manually had
>changed the permissions.


That chmod is done unconditionally whether or not it is required. For
whatever reason, the user running make install does not have
permission to do the chmod on the /usr/local/mailman/archives/private
directory.

You have a few choices to finish the install:
 - run make install as root or as some user that does have permission
to do the chmod.
 - maybe chown /usr/local/mailman/archives/private to the user who's
running make install or figure out why the installing user doesn't
have permission and correct that.
 - remove the line
	chmod o-r $(DESTDIR)$(var_prefix)/archives/private
from the doinstall section of Makefile in the unpack directory

>
>If I run check_perms, I get this:
>
>[root at gatsby bin]# ./check_perms
>Warning: Private archive directory is other-executable (o+x).
>         This could allow other users on your system to read private
>archives.
>         If you're on a shared multiuser system, you should consult the
>         installation manual on how to fix this.
>No problems found


Don't worry about this one. check_perms probably shouldn't report it.
It's not really possible to have public archives at all within the
present Mailman framework without having the archives/private
directory be searchable by the web browser. See the thread that starts
at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2006-April/050591.html>
for more on this.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From barry at python.org  Sat Apr 29 01:45:46 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:45:46 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
	<44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>
Message-ID: <1146267946.10789.157.camel@resist.wooz.org>

Now that I have a few minutes to breath ;) I'll try to summarize my
thoughts on this, and then perhaps go back later and follow up to
specific points later in the thread.

I'm sympathetic to ripping out the Sender: field munging.  It was always
primarily a workaround for buggy MTAs.  If the majority of MTAs out
there now Do The Right Thing, then of course we want to be RFC
compliant.  Outlook's behavior has always been a wart but so far, the
benefits have outweighed the costs.  If the benefits are minimal now,
then it should go.

The question that must be answered is: if we no longer munge Sender:
header, what are the right headers to set to increase the likelihood
that bounces will go where we want them to?

I don't care about the minority of still-deployed buggy MTAs that may
send bounces to the wrong place as long as we can be reasonably assured
they won't send them to /some/ wrong places.  For example, I think it
would be bad if they started spamming list owners with bounces, very bad
if they spammed the original message authors, and worse if they spammed
the mailing list with bounces.  We have almost none of that now and if
we removed the Sender: header and saw a huge increase in this bad
behavior, then the benefits of munging the header go way up.

Of course, we might not know until we start deploying, which would be
too late.  I encourage those of you who want to get rid of Sender:
munging to modify your Mailman 2.1 code now and see what happens. :)  Of
course, you'll let us know how that goes!  My recommendation would be to
record the results in the wiki.

I agree that the RFCs are a bit murky in this area, but it's relatively
clear that the RFC 2822 'secretary' example illustrates the intent of
Sender:.  Our list owners are not the agents transmitting the messages,
so listname-owner should clearly not go in Sender:.

We really want to increase the chances that Mailman will process all
bounces.  As I mention above, we absolutely can't be a vector for
spamming people with bounces they can't do anything about.  If some
buggy MTAs throw bounces away though, tough luck for their users.  There
should be enough compliant MTAs out there that the added cost of keeping
bogus addresses on a list because we never saw their bounces should be
low.

I don't really like list or site options for this kind of thing.  For
one thing, we already have too many options and adding list options
complicates the U/I and cognitive load for list admins who usually
really don't want to be bothered with this nonsense.  We should be
reducing the options a list admin has to worry about, not increasing
them.

This is not really appropriate for a site admin either because that's
too coarse of a decision.  A Mailman site talks to a huge array of MTAs
and MUAs, so I don't think you could make a good choice.  If anything,
should we determine that Sender: munging has to stay, it should be a
user option because only the user knows whether their MUA will present
them with an ugly message display.  A user could decide to turn off
Sender: munging, but I suspect it's still more than the typical user
will want to deal with.  And of course per-user options get into all the
personalization vs. performance issues.

Is listname-bounces confusing?  Yes, and I wouldn't be opposed to
changing this, although I'm not sure what we'd use.  listname-processor?
Well, let's hope we can just get rid of Sender: munging instead.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sat Apr 29 01:50:20 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:50:20 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]    Sender field
In-Reply-To: <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com> <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>
Message-ID: <1146268220.10790.160.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 13:05 -0500, Neal Groothuis wrote:

> As I noted in my previous response, I believe that the correct field (if 
> Mailman were to add a "Sender:" header) to add would be "Resent-Sender". 
>   Please see RFC 2822, section 3.6.6.

Whatever else we decide, I don't agree, or at least, it won't help us.
$3.6.6 says that Resent-* headers are to be added by a user.  It also
says that these are purely informational headers, so I don't see how
adding them will instruct a receiving MTA usefully.

-Barry

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From barry at python.org  Sat Apr 29 01:51:32 2006
From: barry at python.org (Barry Warsaw)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:51:32 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <44525A26.6000007@nleaudio.com>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
	<44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu>  <44525A26.6000007@nleaudio.com>
Message-ID: <1146268292.10793.162.camel@resist.wooz.org>

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 14:08 -0400, Bob Puff at NLE wrote:

> ...Trouble similar to a current problem I am having with AOL: they are
> bouncing all email with the 
> FROM: address of a specific AOL user, when mailman delivers the
> messages to -any- aol or cs.com 
> address.

Have you tried turning on full personalization so that every recipient
gets their own copy?

-Barry

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From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Apr 29 02:12:11 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:12:11 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]    Sender field
In-Reply-To: <1146268220.10790.160.camel@resist.wooz.org>
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com> <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>
	<1146268220.10790.160.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <p06200712c0785d67fc8b@[192.168.1.65]>

At 7:50 PM -0400 2006-04-28, Barry Warsaw wrote:

>  On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 13:05 -0500, Neal Groothuis wrote:
>
>>  As I noted in my previous response, I believe that the correct field (if
>>  Mailman were to add a "Sender:" header) to add would be "Resent-Sender".
>>    Please see RFC 2822, section 3.6.6.
>
>  Whatever else we decide, I don't agree, or at least, it won't help us.
>  $3.6.6 says that Resent-* headers are to be added by a user.  It also
>  says that these are purely informational headers, so I don't see how
>  adding them will instruct a receiving MTA usefully.

	Siunce the RFC doesn't specifically talk about "relay agents" as 
separate from "users", I think we could argue that Mailman would 
qualify as a "user" in this context.  Therefore, the Resent-* headers 
seem to be most appropriate.

	But you are correct that these are purely informational and will 
be completely ignored by any MTA.  If we need something that will be 
noticed by other MTAs beyond the envelope sender and the 
"Return-Path:" & "Errors-To:" headers, then we're going to have to 
carefully think about this.


	I am still opposed to blindly making this change and letting the 
community find out what happens.

	I think we need to gather a lot more information about the likely 
outcome from this change, and I think the best way to achieve this is 
through giving admins (either site admins or list admins) the ability 
to set an option and choose whether or not they want to see what 
happens.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From edwardam at interlix.com  Sat Apr 29 03:02:46 2006
From: edwardam at interlix.com (Edward Muller)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 20:02:46 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing Unsubscription Requests
Message-ID: <200604282002.46322.edwardam@interlix.com>

I am hosting a list (running on 2.1.7) that is missing unsubscription requests 
on the 'admindb' page.

The list is configured to have moderated unsubscription requests, so people 
don't have to confirm their unsubscriptions, which seems to cause a lot of 
problems.

I know the unsubscription request was made because:
a) they show up in the 'vette' log
b) Some people are sending angry emails to the return address of the list.

But those people are still on the list, the list admin (who I know personally) 
has told me they haven't discarded them, and the unsubscription requests 
don't show up on the 'admindb' page. 

I don't mean that all unsubscription requests don't show up, some do.

I've looked over the error logs, which do have some errors, but nothing 
related to unsubscription requests.

Any help in debugging this?
-- 
Edward Muller
Interlix, LLC


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 29 04:55:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:55:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Missing Unsubscription Requests
In-Reply-To: <200604282002.46322.edwardam@interlix.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006042819554106879b22f598@msapiro>

Edward Muller wrote:
>
>I know the unsubscription request was made because:
>a) they show up in the 'vette' log
>b) Some people are sending angry emails to the return address of the list.


a) is good evidence. As far as b) is concerned, can people who can't
deal with an unsubscribe confirmation be trusted in this ?-)


>But those people are still on the list, the list admin (who I know personally) 
>has told me they haven't discarded them, and the unsubscription requests 
>don't show up on the 'admindb' page. 
>
>I don't mean that all unsubscription requests don't show up, some do.


Is admin_immed_notify on and if so, does the admin get notice of the
missing unsub requests?


>I've looked over the error logs, which do have some errors, but nothing 
>related to unsubscription requests.


Are you absolutely certain the logged errors aren't related? What are
they?

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From bob at nleaudio.com  Sat Apr 29 08:22:30 2006
From: bob at nleaudio.com (Bob Puff)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 02:22:30 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]  Sender field
In-Reply-To: <1146268292.10793.162.camel@resist.wooz.org>
References: <4450E5D3.10304@imsa.edu> <p0620070dc0773e58b486@[192.168.1.65]>
	<44523C83.6080509@imsa.edu> <44525A26.6000007@nleaudio.com>
	<1146268292.10793.162.camel@resist.wooz.org>
Message-ID: <20060429062128.M63022@nleaudio.com>


Yes, and it still happens.  Apparently, AOL has some filter based on a FROM:
address matching a specific list, and bounces it with an SPF error, which it
clearly is not.

Bob

---------- Original Message -----------
From: Barry Warsaw <barry at python.org>

> 
> Have you tried turning on full personalization so that every 
> recipient gets their own copy?
> 
> -Barry
------- End of Original Message -------



From lists at suares.an  Sat Apr 29 13:47:41 2006
From: lists at suares.an (Ace Suares)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:47:41 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can 'mailman@domain' be changed ?
In-Reply-To: <PC17402006042112334808280950b18c@msapiro>
References: <PC17402006042112334808280950b18c@msapiro>
Message-ID: <200604290747.41895.lists@suares.an>

Thx,

But unfortunately we already have 
add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com') in place, since the 
webinterface is at https://list.domain.com and the mail gets handled 
@list.domain.com

But I'll figure this out, we need to move to 2.1.8 anyway, soon.

Thanx,
Ace

On Friday 21 April 2006 15:33, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Ace Suares wrote:
> >On version 2.1.5, on the listinfo page, an email adres 
> > 'mailman at domain' is mentioned. We have a situation where our clients
> > work with mailinglists on 'lists.domain' but receive their mail at
> > 'domain'.
> >
> >So, instead of having the listinfo page list 'mailman at list.domain.com'
> > we would like it to display 'mailman at domain.com' but we can not find
> > a way how to do that. Can you help !?
>
> The domain portion of this address depends in various ways on what's in
> mm_cfg.py and perhaps Defaults.py and possibly on what version of
> Mailman you are running (there was an error in this area not corrected
> until 2.1.8).
>
> It is complicated to explain all the possibilities, so see the
> definitions of get_domain() and get_site_email() in Mailman/Utils.py
>
> Basically, if you have VIRTUAL_HOST_OVERVIEW = On (the default) and you
> access the listinfo page at http://list.domain.com/mailman.listinfo
> and you have add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'domain.com') in
> mm_cfg.py (or if these are the DEFAULT_URL_HOST and DEFAULT_EMAIL_HOST
> values), you should see what you want.




-- 
The manipulation of objects is much easier than
objecting to manipulation
        - unknown

Suares & Co, Open Source Solutions
mail: Gravenstraat #4, Willemstad, Curacao (NA)
phone: +599 786 23 73
fax: +31 848 707 705
web: http://www.suares.an email: ace at suares.an


From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 29 17:00:14 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:00:14 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]      Sender field
In-Reply-To: <p06200712c0785d67fc8b@[192.168.1.65]> (Brad Knowles's message
	of "Fri, 28 Apr 2006 19:12:11 -0500")
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com> <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>
	<1146268220.10790.160.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<p06200712c0785d67fc8b@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <87slnwe8ap.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Brad" == Brad Knowles <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org> writes:

At 7:50 PM -0400 2006-04-28, Barry Warsaw wrote:

    >> Whatever else we decide, I don't agree, or at least, it won't
    >> help us.  $3.6.6 says that Resent-* headers are to be added by
    >> a user.  It also says that these are purely informational
    >> headers, so I don't see how adding them will instruct a
    >> receiving MTA usefully.

Sender doesn't instruct *conformant* MTAs at all, does it?  AFAIK the
only thing that a RFC 2821-conforming MTA looks at is the Return-Path
header, and it's supposed to remove that.

So this is purely a matter of pragmatic self-defense against broken
MTAs that do bounce to Sender.

    Brad> 	Siunce the RFC doesn't specifically talk about "relay
    Brad> agents" as separate from "users", I think we could argue
    Brad> that Mailman would qualify as a "user" in this context.
    Brad> Therefore, the Resent-* headers seem to be most appropriate.

Agreed.  For a number of reasons, I think this information can be
useful.  As I mentioned elsewhere, the Resent-Message-Id field can be
used to supply a UUID that we can trust (eg, for constructing
canonical archive URLs).  Unlike the Received headers, these are
readable by humans who aren't wall-eyed, helpful in tracing delays,
for example.

    Brad> If we need something that will be noticed by other MTAs
    Brad> beyond the envelope sender and the "Return-Path:" &
    Brad> "Errors-To:" headers, then we're going to have to carefully
    Brad> think about this.

What's an Errors-To header?  I can't find it in the usual suspects.

But I don't see any particular need for thought.  Conforming Internet
MTAs don't look at message headers, period.

-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 29 17:15:57 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 08:15:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Can 'mailman@domain' be changed ?
In-Reply-To: <200604290747.41895.lists@suares.an>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604290815570734193481d7@msapiro>

Ace Suares wrote:
>
>But unfortunately we already have 
>add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com') in place, since the 
>webinterface is at https://list.domain.com and the mail gets handled 
>@list.domain.com

Mailman is just doing what seems to me to be the right thing. You have

add_virtualhost('list.domain.com', 'list.domain.com')

because you want list mail sent to the list.domain.com domain. The
'mailman' address is just another list, so it's address is
mailman at list.domain.com.

Granted, if you have multiple domains, this gets tricky. There is only
one 'mailman' list and it is the same list for all domains, yet its
address gets displayed on the listinfo overview with the email domain
corresponding to the current URL domain. The reason for this is that
in a virtual hosting environment, you may not want to expose a
different domain name on the listinfo overview page.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Apr 29 17:09:56 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:09:56 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM
Message-ID: <445381C4.40007@freestandards.org>

What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?

Thanks,

LDB


From thomasc at belgaboard.com  Sat Apr 29 16:50:32 2006
From: thomasc at belgaboard.com (Thomas Carpentier)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:50:32 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display HTML
	when possible
Message-ID: <p06230906c0792a134590@[193.121.73.201]>

Hi,

One of my lists is a newsletter. I use ThundeBird to write my 
messages. Some of my membres can (want) HTML and others not.

Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a 
solution. Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate 
alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No 
idea about others programs.

Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that the message 
is automatically displayed in HTML only (at least at first 
alternative) when the mail program permits it and the options are 
enabled and in Plain Text in the other cases?

Any suggestion will be welcome.


Thomas

P.S version: mailman 2.1.8 running on Mac OS X, Panther 10.3.9


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 29 18:30:37 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 09:30:37 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM
In-Reply-To: <445381C4.40007@freestandards.org>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604290930370203ef8efdb0@msapiro>

Lawrence Bowie wrote:

>What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?

Assuming you mean in Mailman, use the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py,
e.g.

KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]

This is a list of tuples of (header, regexp) where header is the name
of a header and regexp is a pattern to search the contents of the
header. These are case insensitive. Any match will discard the message.

But, why not have whatever process marks the message as spam discard it.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From ldb at freestandards.org  Sat Apr 29 18:53:13 2006
From: ldb at freestandards.org (Lawrence Bowie)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:53:13 -0400
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Filtering Email Marked SPAM
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604290930370203ef8efdb0@msapiro>
References: <PC1740200604290930370203ef8efdb0@msapiro>
Message-ID: <445399F9.9060108@freestandards.org>

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> Lawrence Bowie wrote:
> 
>> What is the easist way to globally filter email marked SPAM?
> 
> Assuming you mean in Mailman, use the KNOWN_SPAMMERS list in mm_cfg.py,
> e.g.
> 
> KNOWN_SPAMMERS = [('subject', '^.*spam'), ('x-spam-flag', 'yes')]
> 
> This is a list of tuples of (header, regexp) where header is the name
> of a header and regexp is a pattern to search the contents of the
> header. These are case insensitive. Any match will discard the message.
> 
> But, why not have whatever process marks the message as spam discard it.
> 

Good quesiton ... I like to see some of the SPAM to understand patterns. :)

Thanks Mark,

LDB


From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 29 19:19:26 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:19:26 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display
	HTMLwhen possible
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c0792a134590@[193.121.73.201]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604291019260109aaaeaea7@msapiro>

Thomas Carpentier wrote:
>
>One of my lists is a newsletter. I use ThundeBird to write my 
>messages. Some of my membres can (want) HTML and others not.
>
>Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a 
>solution.


If you mean Thunderbird's Tools->Options...->Composition->General->Send
Options...->Text Format - Send the message in both plain text and HTML
setting, this sends a message of type multipart/alternative with a
text/plain subpart and a text/html sub-part. This is exactly the right
way to do this.

Assuming your list has content filtering turned off or set to pass all
three of the above types, that multipart/alternative message will be
sent to your list members. What they see is dependant on their own
MUAs and settings thereof.


>Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate 
>alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No 
>idea about others programs.


Some MUAs allow the user to select whether to display the plain text or
the HTML by default. Some MUAs decide for you - usually picking the
last (most complex) alternative they understand. Some MUAs do not
understand MIME at all.


>Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that the message 
>is automatically displayed in HTML only (at least at first 
>alternative) when the mail program permits it and the options are 
>enabled and in Plain Text in the other cases?


No. There is nothing you can do in Mailman to do this because it is an
MUA issue, not a message format issue per se. The same thing should be
happening if you sent the same message directly to the recipient and
not through a list.

This is why many people recommend that list mail be plain text only.
That is a format that all MUAs understand.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From stephen at xemacs.org  Sat Apr 29 19:44:39 2006
From: stephen at xemacs.org (Stephen J. Turnbull)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:44:39 +0900
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display
 HTML when possible
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c0792a134590@[193.121.73.201]> (Thomas Carpentier's
	message of "Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:50:32 +0200")
References: <p06230906c0792a134590@[193.121.73.201]>
Message-ID: <87psj0cm48.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Carpentier <thomasc at belgaboard.com> writes:

    Thomas> Is there something to do, on the mailman side, such that
    Thomas> the message is automatically displayed in HTML only (at
    Thomas> least at first alternative) when the mail program permits
    Thomas> it and the options are enabled and in Plain Text in the
    Thomas> other cases?

No.  This is a client-side problem.

Mailman does not currently support this.  In theory you could have a
per-user option to strip HTML in Mailman, but this seems rather
impractical.  There are too many weird things that can happen in
multipart mails.  Also, some people may wish to choose at the time
they read the mail, rather than in their subscription settings.

The only reliable way to handle this is to send both text and HTML as
a multipart/alternative.  That assumes that your members have mail
programs that handle MIME properly, but most common clients do
nowadays.

    Thomas> Any suggestion will be welcome.

Make sure that Thunderbird follows the recommendation in RFC 2046, i.e.,
the text/plain version followed by the text/html version.  (I believe
it does, but it may be configurable.)

There are FAQs on mail clients that explain how to configure them to
handle MIME correctly; you might want to post URLs to them for your
members.


-- 
School of Systems and Information Engineering http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp
University of Tsukuba                    Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN
               Ask not how you can "do" free software business;
              ask what your business can "do for" free software.


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sat Apr 29 19:43:44 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 12:43:44 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]      Sender field
In-Reply-To: <87slnwe8ap.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
References: <C0779F04.C339%jwblist@loricamail.com> <44525979.6040301@imsa.edu>
	<1146268220.10790.160.camel@resist.wooz.org>
	<p06200712c0785d67fc8b@[192.168.1.65]>
	<87slnwe8ap.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <p06200714c07955f73e94@[192.168.1.65]>

At 12:00 AM +0900 2006-04-30, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:

>      Brad> If we need something that will be noticed by other MTAs
>      Brad> beyond the envelope sender and the "Return-Path:" &
>      Brad> "Errors-To:" headers, then we're going to have to carefully
>      Brad> think about this.
>
>  What's an Errors-To header?  I can't find it in the usual suspects.

	That's the oldest technique for handling bounces.  It has been 
deprecated for a while, but I would be inclined to continue to at 
least provide the appropriate information.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From jesse at seedboxconnect.com  Sat Apr 29 19:42:27 2006
From: jesse at seedboxconnect.com (Jesse Sanford)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:42:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error checking on bulk subscribe files
Message-ID: <DECA8529-CD55-4F4C-9DFA-D1EBECB3AA32@seedboxconnect.com>

Hi folks,

I'm learning a lot about Mailman all of a sudden.

I had a user move a list from another provider onto an install on my  
system yesterday.  Instead of uploading a <CR>-delimited file with  
one email address per line, they uploaded a tab-delimited file with a  
tab between each address.  As an added factor, they mistakenly had  
the interface set to send a welcome message.

Interestingly, the effect of this was that no one got subscribed to  
the list because Mailman read every single address as a null email  
address with the actual email address quoted.  Mailman then happily  
proceeded to pass 8,000+ null-addressed welcome messages to my mail  
server, which decided to ignore the quotes and send all the messages  
out!

Is this a bug or a feature? =)



--
Jesse Sanford <jesse at seedboxconnect.com>
System Designer, Seedbox Connect



From msapiro at value.net  Sat Apr 29 22:28:16 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:28:16 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Error checking on bulk subscribe files
In-Reply-To: <DECA8529-CD55-4F4C-9DFA-D1EBECB3AA32@seedboxconnect.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604291328160703a5eb30ef@msapiro>

Jesse Sanford wrote:
>
>I had a user move a list from another provider onto an install on my  
>system yesterday.  Instead of uploading a <CR>-delimited file with  
>one email address per line, they uploaded a tab-delimited file with a  
>tab between each address.  As an added factor, they mistakenly had  
>the interface set to send a welcome message.


What Mailman version is this?

Mass subscribe takes the input, splits it into lines and pases each
non-empty line to email.Utils.parseaddr() which returns a tuple
consisting of a real name and an email address.

When I feed parseaddr() a string of tab delimited email addresses (I
only tried 3, but I don't think that 8000 would be different), it
returns a tuple with real name = the null string and email address =
the first address in the string. Thus, I would expect this to
subscribe and notify the first address and drop the rest.


>Interestingly, the effect of this was that no one got subscribed to  
>the list because Mailman read every single address as a null email  
>address with the actual email address quoted.  Mailman then happily  
>proceeded to pass 8,000+ null-addressed welcome messages to my mail  
>server, which decided to ignore the quotes and send all the messages  
>out!


In any case, mass subscribe ultimately calls ApprovedAddMember() (one
member at a time) to add the member and send the notice (to the member
and/or admin). ApprovedAddMember validates the address and if it is
not valid or already a member, it doesn't do the add or send the
notice. In any case, it only sends the notice after successfully
adding the address and logging the fact in the subscribe log.


>Is this a bug or a feature? =)


It may be a bug in an older Mailman. It may be a bug in current
mailman, but if so, in order to reproduce it I need more detail about
the actual input.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From jwblist at loricamail.com  Sat Apr 29 22:30:47 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:30:47 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] [Mailman-Developers]      Sender field
In-Reply-To: <87slnwe8ap.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp>
Message-ID: <C0791B07.C398%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/29/06 8:00 AM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" <stephen at xemacs.org> wrote:

> Sender doesn't instruct *conformant* MTAs at all, does it?  AFAIK the
> only thing that a RFC 2821-conforming MTA looks at is the Return-Path
> header, and it's supposed to remove that.

There is no Return-Path: header during transmission of a message. The
Return-Path header is added in the process of delivery.
There is a return path, stated in the MAIL FROM:<example at example.com> SMTP
command.  (That command *can* have more stuff related to authentication.)
The return path is what should be used as the address of a bounce if a mail
system foolishly accepts a message and then creates a bounce.

Notice that if an MTA rejects a message (or one or more of the recipients of
the message), it is not bouncing or creating a bounce.  It is issuing an
error response...the MTA (or MUA in the case of message submission) that was
trying to send creates a bounce message if appropriate (for message
submission, the MUA notifies the user--or pretends to:  Microsoft by default
hides the notification remarkably well).

While multi-line text associated with the rejection code is provided for,
MUAs are very poor about showing it if a submission is rejected--some show
only the first line; some only the last line.  Even some MTAs "improve" the
text of the rejection.

  --John




From jwblist at loricamail.com  Sat Apr 29 22:57:24 2006
From: jwblist at loricamail.com (John W. Baxter)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:57:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display
 HTML when possible
In-Reply-To: <p06230906c0792a134590@[193.121.73.201]>
Message-ID: <C0792144.C3C3%jwblist@loricamail.com>

On 4/29/06 7:50 AM, "Thomas Carpentier" <thomasc at belgaboard.com> wrote:

> Sending a message in both  Plain Text and HTML doesn't seem to be a
> solution. Apple mail displays the Plain Text only (as immediate
> alternative). Eudora displays the two parts, plain text and HTML. No
> idea about others programs.

Apple Mail as shipped "prefers" the HTML part.  Using defaults write blah,
blah in Terminal one can (and I have) set Mail to "prefer" plain text.
Either way, the other form can be displaying using Command-] (short for
View-->Message-->Next Alternative).

However, in this case, you control the sending (you are the one who sends to
the newsletter).  You could split the list into two lists, one preferring
plain text and the other preferring HTML, and then send messages with only
the right form to each list.

The Mac-related TidBITS newsletter works that way (with a third alternative
of HTML with article headlines linked to the stories on the web site).

It appears that, using Thunderbird, you would prepare the HTML version of
the newsletter, and send it to the address of the HTML-preferring list,
whose address would be marked in the Thunderbird address book as preferring
HTML mail. Then you would select the message in the sending account's Sent
folder, and use the Message-->Edit Message as New command.  Change the
address to that of the plain text list.

In Thunderbird's Preferences in the Composition tab, on the "Configure text
format behavior" line, click the Send Options... button.  In the upper box,
set the popup to "Convert the message to plain text".

Suggestion:  if you go this route, tune up your Thunderbird settings by
sending to a couple of addresses which are NOT lists, until you get it
right.  With luck, that will help you avoid annoying the list members with
failed tests.

  --John




From hansen at rc.org  Sun Apr 30 01:24:36 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 16:24:36 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>

Celes,

May I suggest that you get hold of
Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
a great platform for servers.

That all said, you'll likely at some point need to install the
Developer Tools anyway.

Allan

At 11:24 +0800 4/26/06, Celes Victoria wrote:
>thank u to reply (^_^)...
>no, i don't see it,.. are u forgot / misspell of
>"afp458.com"  ?
>in there i just not find linked to mac...
>
>so the kind should i install from developer tools is
>FWIW?
>cos i'm newbie for mac os X & i don't wanna get wrong
>to install it....
>is  apple.com provide the developer tools on it? & can
>i download & install it?
>
>
>thank you..
>
>> Yes, you must install the Developer Tools. FWIW, if
>> you've already  
>> su'ed to root, there's no need for sudo.
>> 
>> Have you seen the instructions at afp458.com?
>> 
>> Dan
>> 
>> 
>> ====================
>> Dan Phillips
>> Associate Professor
>> Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
>> University of Memphis
>> dan at music.memphis.edu
>
>
>
>
>		
>__________________________________ 
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! Movies - Search movie info and celeb profiles and photos.
>http://sg.movies.yahoo.com/

-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sun Apr 30 01:46:18 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 09:46:18 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06230901c079aafb1fda@[203.53.37.182]>

>Celes,
>
>May I suggest that you get hold of
>Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>a great platform for servers.
>
>That all said, you'll likely at some point need to install the
>Developer Tools anyway.
>
>Allan
Hi again,
	Mailman installs & works fine on OSX 'client'. Somewhere 
there is aguide I wrote to install it - just can't rememebr where 
right now - I think it is linked off the Mailman site somewhere. If 
the OP can't find it, I'll try to dig it up.
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From thomasc at belgaboard.com  Sun Apr 30 02:44:10 2006
From: thomasc at belgaboard.com (Thomas Carpentier)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 02:44:10 +0200
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client display
 HTML when possible
In-Reply-To: <C0792144.C3C3%jwblist@loricamail.com>
References: <C0792144.C3C3%jwblist@loricamail.com>
Message-ID: <p0623090bc079b4dbcc99@[193.121.73.201]>

Thanks all for your explanations. I'll probably go for two lists.

Do you know if there's a php script that permits to send commands to mailman ?

My idea is the following: A page web where we can choose HTML or text 
on registration, like 
http://registration.euro.apple.com/applenews/uk/subscribe/ and an 
update page to modify the choice.



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 30 03:27:27 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 18:27:27 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Message HTML/Plain text. Wish client
	displayHTML when possible
In-Reply-To: <p0623090bc079b4dbcc99@[193.121.73.201]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604291827270296535bd523@msapiro>

Thomas Carpentier wrote:
>
>Do you know if there's a php script that permits to send commands to mailman ?


See the thread that starts at
<http://mail.python.org/pipermail/mailman-users/2005-December/048037.html>
for one discussion of invoking the bin/* commands via php.

You can find others with a search like
<http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Amail.python.org++inurl%3Amailman-users++php+commands>

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Apr 30 04:07:00 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 21:07:00 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06200717c079cbc1da10@[192.168.1.65]>

At 4:24 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  May I suggest that you get hold of
>  Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>  with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>  tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>  a great platform for servers.

	Using MacOS X Server is not necessarily the best idea if using 
Mailman is your goal.  See 
<http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> 
for more information, especially the links at the end.

	It appears that most people who want to use Mailman on MacOS X 
Server end up ripping out the Apple-supplied custom version and 
instead installing the standard version from our tarballs.  If you're 
going to go that route, you might as well do that on MacOS X Client 
as opposed to spending lots of extra money for MacOS X Server.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From wtallman at olypen.com  Sun Apr 30 04:39:07 2006
From: wtallman at olypen.com (William D. Tallman)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:39:07 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.
Message-ID: <20060430023907.GA27882@olypen.com>

Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
the entries and data?

Thanks,

Bill Tallman



From hansen at rc.org  Sun Apr 30 04:56:57 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 19:56:57 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
Message-ID: <p0623091ec079d7cd9b5b@[10.0.1.4]>

At 21:07 -0500 4/29/06, Brad Knowles wrote:
>At 4:24 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:
>
>>  May I suggest that you get hold of
>>  Mac OS X Server and install that on you server instead. It comes
>>  with Mailman already installed and ready to go. It has a lot of other
>>  tools pre-installed that will be very useful to you. The Mac is
>>  a great platform for servers.
>
>	Using MacOS X Server is not necessarily the best idea if using 
>Mailman is your goal.  See 
><http://www.python.org/cgi-bin/faqw-mm.py?req=show&file=faq01.021.htp> 
>for more information, especially the links at the end.
>
>	It appears that most people who want to use Mailman on MacOS X 
>Server end up ripping out the Apple-supplied custom version and 
>instead installing the standard version from our tarballs.  If you're 
>going to go that route, you might as well do that on MacOS X Client 
>as opposed to spending lots of extra money for MacOS X Server.

I agree that the Server Admin interface for Mailman is limited and
too buggy to be of serious use. It can, however, allow someone new to the
OS set up Mailman lists with not much ado, which was the situation at
hand, Brad. Installing Mailman and other attendant server tools (in
particular) is not, I believe a newbie's best path. Solutions should 
be tailored to the problems presented.

Once Mailman is up and running, the administrator should, of course switch to
web/command line tools. I have (so far) been successful setting up
a workable system that allows my moderators to subscribe and unsubscribe
and set member options. I run some close to 40 lists - granted not
many but plenty to handle anyway.

The server, lastly, does not cost lots of extra money for what you get.
It's well worth it if you don't plan to be a full-time administrator.

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        allan at hansen-family.us       |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.hansen-family.us/ |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 30 05:54:41 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 20:54:41 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.
In-Reply-To: <20060430023907.GA27882@olypen.com>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604292054410921db132aa2@msapiro>

William D. Tallman wrote:

>Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
>the entries and data?

configure ; make install

See the UPGRADING document at the top level of the distribution for
more information.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Apr 30 05:59:05 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:59:05 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06230919c079d2bd6bc9@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200717c079cbc1da10@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230919c079d2bd6bc9@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>

At 7:48 PM -0700 2006-04-29, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  I agree that the Server Admin interface for Mailman is limited and
>  too buggy to be of serious use. It can, however, allow someone new to the
>  OS set up Mailman lists with not much ado, which was the situation at
>  hand, Brad. Installing Mailman and other attendant server tools (in
>  particular) is not, I believe a newbie's best path. Solutions should
>  be tailored to the problems presented.

	The problem is that there are known security holes and other 
problems with the old version that Apple uses as part of their 
customized package, and you can't install the recent binaries on top 
of the old ones and get the Apple custom management GUI with the 
latest code.

	Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the 
Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code 
(with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard 
Mailman web or CLI management interface.


	So, pick what is important for you -- do you want something 
secure where you can get support from all our resources (including 
this list), or do you want something that is easier to manage, but 
for which your only support options are to pay Apple and wait for 
them to get back to you at some point in the distant future?

	Keep in mind that Apple is well-known for blowing off their 
Server customers.  They even blow off their own internal Apple 
employees who would like to use Server for their applications.


	One of the world's largest Mailman installations runs on MacOS X 
Server machines, but they don't use the Server version of Mailman. 
And they don't depend on getting support from the Server team.  They 
treat it as any other Linux or Unix-like OS that they support 
themselves, where Mailman is installed from our source tarballs.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From dan at music.memphis.edu  Sun Apr 30 06:10:25 2006
From: dan at music.memphis.edu (Dan Phillips)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 23:10:25 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200717c079cbc1da10@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230919c079d2bd6bc9@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <5BFC2563-CA36-4697-9E50-2226B5701DE5@music.memphis.edu>


On Apr 29, 2006, at 10:59 PM, Brad Knowles wrote:
> Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the
> Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code
> (with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard
> Mailman web or CLI management interface.

Just to clarify any possible ambiguity in Brad's post:  Apple's  
version can be managed just fine with the standard Mailman web GUI  
and CLI, both of which are vastly superior to Apple's GUI. All one  
needs to do with Apple's interface is check "enable mailing lists" in  
Server Admin app. Unfortunately, as Brad points out, Apple is still  
on Mailman 2.1.5.

Dan

====================
Dan Phillips
Associate Professor
Rudi E. Scheidt School of Music
University of Memphis
dan at music.memphis.edu





From wtallman at olypen.com  Sun Apr 30 07:36:24 2006
From: wtallman at olypen.com (William D. Tallman)
Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 22:36:24 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.
In-Reply-To: <PC1740200604292054410921db132aa2@msapiro>
References: <20060430023907.GA27882@olypen.com>
	<PC1740200604292054410921db132aa2@msapiro>
Message-ID: <20060430053624.GB28386@olypen.com>

On Sat, Apr 29, 2006 at 08:54:41PM -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> William D. Tallman wrote:
> 
> >Is there a canonical method of recompiling Mailman without losing all
> >the entries and data?
> 
> configure ; make install
> 
> See the UPGRADING document at the top level of the distribution for
> more information.
> 
> -- 
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

What happens if I don't 'install'?  Do the recompiled execuatbles simply
remain in the build directory?  If so, can I then copy them over to
/usr/local/mailman/[bin|contrib|cron]?  Reason I ask is that a simple
recompile wasn't exactly addressed in the UPGRADE text, although I did
get that I should shut things down while redoing the binaries.

Or are there configuration files that will have changed, etc?  All I
seem to need to do is reconfigure with " --with-mail-gid=daemon" in
order to satisfy Sendmail, or so says the complaint in /var/log/maillog
when I started 'mailmanctl'.  There were three messages in
/var/spool/mail/mailman that I'd sent to verify that the incoming mail
got to where it needed to be.  Each one elicited the complaint and they
were not 'bounced'.

In the end, I could simply blow it all away and start over, but that
sounds a bit too much like the necessaries for a popular operating
software suite.

Thanks for responding,

Bill Tallman



From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Apr 30 07:56:55 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 00:56:55 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.
In-Reply-To: <20060430053624.GB28386@olypen.com>
References: <20060430023907.GA27882@olypen.com>
	<PC1740200604292054410921db132aa2@msapiro>
	<20060430053624.GB28386@olypen.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071ac079fff215d9@[192.168.1.65]>

At 10:36 PM -0700 2006-04-29, William D. Tallman wrote:

>  What happens if I don't 'install'?

	Then the existing code doesn't get replaced.

>                                      Do the recompiled execuatbles simply
>  remain in the build directory?

	Yes.

>                                      If so, can I then copy them over to
>  /usr/local/mailman/[bin|contrib|cron]?

	If you want to do a manual installation process -- essentially 
duplicating the effect of doing a "make install" -- you can certainly 
choose to do that.  But you do need to make sure that you do all the 
necessary steps, and don't leave anything out.  This includes doing a 
"chown" and "chgrp" of the necessary files with the appropriate 
ownership and permissions, etc....

	Don't skip any necessary steps, otherwise you're likely to be 
left with a non-functional installation.

>                                          Reason I ask is that a simple
>  recompile wasn't exactly addressed in the UPGRADE text, although I did
>  get that I should shut things down while redoing the binaries.

	The problem is that you're thinking of Python as if it were C. 
It's not.  In Python, we replace the source code files, and let 
Python do a recompile on-the-fly, if such is called for.

	So, there really aren't any "binaries" that you are replacing. 
You're replacing the source code, then it's up to Python to notice 
that the source code has changed and do its own reload/recompile -- a 
step that only occurs when the program(s) is/are loaded, which is why 
you need to stop and restart Mailman after replacing the source code.


	Think of it like Basic.  All you have to worry about is the 
source code, and making sure that the system has properly noticed 
that the source code has changed.

>  Or are there configuration files that will have changed, etc?

	Our installation process does not muck around with the mm_cfg.py 
file.  That's all yours.  Once you modify it to suit for your site, 
we don't touch it again.

	But we will replace just about everything else, if need be.

	This is why we strongly encourage everyone to make all their 
modifications in mm_cfg.py, as opposed to other places -- like 
Defaults.py, which would get replaced in an upgrade.

>                                                                 All I
>  seem to need to do is reconfigure with " --with-mail-gid=daemon" in
>  order to satisfy Sendmail, or so says the complaint in /var/log/maillog
>  when I started 'mailmanctl'.

	That's the first step.  You do need to do the reconfigure. 
Afterwards, you need to re-install with the new source code, based on 
the new configuration.

>  In the end, I could simply blow it all away and start over, but that
>  sounds a bit too much like the necessaries for a popular operating
>  software suite.

	Yeah, I don't think this will be necessary.


	To be honest, I think you're over-analyzing this situation.  With 
Mailman the upgrade process is almost always as simple as 
"./configure; make install", just as Mark said.

	In the cases where the upgrade process is not this simple, people 
like Mark and Tokio work very hard to keep the documentation 
up-to-date with whatever the necessary additional steps are.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From hmag at ozemail.com.au  Sun Apr 30 08:02:46 2006
From: hmag at ozemail.com.au (Terry Allen)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 16:02:46 +1000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p06230902c07a02ee1837@[203.53.37.182]>

Hi again,
	I found time to look for the minimal guide I had done:

http://www.gnu.org/software/mailman/mailman-install/node50.html

	Look down towards the bottom of that page & you should be 
able to see it's steps - the steps should also apply to OSX 10.4.x
-- 

	Bye for now, Terry Allen 
	___________________________________________________________________
hEARd

Postal Address:
	hEARd, 26B Glenning Rd,	Glenning Valley, NSW 2261, Australia
Internet -
	WWW: http://heard.com.au http://itavservices.com
EMAIL: hmag at ozemail.com.au
Phone: Australia - 02 4388 1400 / International - + 61 2 43881400
Mobile: Australia - 04 28881400 / International - 61 4 28881400
-----------------------------------------------
Non profit promotion for new music - since 1994
-----------------------------------------------


From 4ylyh9g02 at sneakemail.com  Sun Apr 30 10:28:47 2006
From: 4ylyh9g02 at sneakemail.com (Tony G)
Date: 30 Apr 2006 08:28:47 -0000
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting duplicates when people CC list
Message-ID: <12287-03062@sneakemail.com>

It seems I am getting duplicate messages from mailman v2.1.5 when senders send both TO and CC to the list. For some reason no one else in the list is acknowledging this issue so I look like an idiot complaining about it, but I'm seeing several instances of it per day.

I do not get dupes of all mails otherwise I'd suspect double subscription. The Avoid Duplicates flag is set. This only happens for mails that have the list in the CC -  I understand the dupe flag is for when people use ReplyAll and the recipient is in both the list of subscribers and the CC for the mail. I believe the code is supposed to filter duplicate Message-IDs to a given recipient no matter how those dupes are generated, but I'm getting them. Any ideas?

Thank you kindly.


From geethupraj at yahoo.co.in  Sun Apr 30 13:09:54 2006
From: geethupraj at yahoo.co.in (geetha raj)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 12:09:54 +0100 (BST)
Subject: [Mailman-Users] heyy yyyyylive card
Message-ID: <20060430110954.8854.qmail@web8415.mail.in.yahoo.com>

  
				
---------------------------------
 Jiyo cricket on Yahoo! India cricket
Yahoo! Messenger Mobile Stay in touch with your buddies all the time.

From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Apr 30 14:45:50 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:45:50 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting duplicates when people CC list
In-Reply-To: <12287-03062@sneakemail.com>
References: <12287-03062@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <p0620071bc07a614ee766@[192.168.1.65]>

At 8:28 AM +0000 2006-04-30, Tony G wrote:

>  I do not get dupes of all mails otherwise I'd suspect double subscription.
>  The Avoid Duplicates flag is set. This only happens for mails that have
>  the list in the CC -  I understand the dupe flag is for when people use
>  ReplyAll and the recipient is in both the list of subscribers and the CC
>  for the mail.

	It's not just the recipient, but the exact same recipient 
address.  So, if you're subscribed to the list with one address, and 
they cc: a different address of yours, then the system has no way to 
tell that these are both the same person.

>                 I believe the code is supposed to filter duplicate
>  Message-IDs to a given recipient no matter how those dupes are generated,
>  but I'm getting them. Any ideas?

	No, the code doesn't work at the Message-ID level.  It works at 
the level of the listed recipients in the To: and CC: headers.

	If you want filtering done at the Message-ID level, then you need 
to apply that on your end -- either use a program like procmail to 
filter all your incoming mail, or set up your MUA to discard 
duplicates, etc....

	There's nothing more that Mailman can do to help you.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.


From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 30 16:13:11 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:13:11 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Getting duplicates when people CC list
In-Reply-To: <12287-03062@sneakemail.com>
Message-ID: <PC17402006043007131101256e60d0a8@msapiro>

Tony G wrote:

>It seems I am getting duplicate messages from mailman v2.1.5 when senders send both TO and CC to the list. For some reason no one else in the list is acknowledging this issue so I look like an idiot complaining about it, but I'm seeing several instances of it per day.

Brad has already provided good information in his reply. I just want to
add that it looks to me like in this case, the sender's MUA is
actually giving the list address twice (once for To: and once for Cc:)
to the MTA, and the MTA is not dropping the duplicate recipient. Thus,
two copies of the post are actually being sent to the list. Do the
duplicates appear twice in archives and/or digests? (I think the
duplicate may be dropped from the archives if the message-id is the
same, but I'm not sure).

Other subscribers may not see this because their incoming MTA/MUA may
drop duplicate message-ids.

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From msapiro at value.net  Sun Apr 30 16:41:17 2006
From: msapiro at value.net (Mark Sapiro)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 07:41:17 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] Recompiling question.
In-Reply-To: <p0620071ac079fff215d9@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <PC1740200604300741170875b4d3733c@msapiro>

Brad Knowles wrote:

>At 10:36 PM -0700 2006-04-29, William D. Tallman wrote:
>
>
>>                                          Reason I ask is that a simple
>>  recompile wasn't exactly addressed in the UPGRADE text, although I did
>>  get that I should shut things down while redoing the binaries.
>
>	The problem is that you're thinking of Python as if it were C. 
>It's not.  In Python, we replace the source code files, and let 
>Python do a recompile on-the-fly, if such is called for.

Actually, in this particular case, it is C. The only thing that needs
changing in the installation is the mail wrapper. The minimal steps to
do this without actually going into the configure and Makefile files
and only doing pieces is

0) cd to the source top level (unpack) directory

1) configure with new --with-mail-gid option

2) cd src/

3) make mailman

4) cp mailman $(exec-prefix)/mail/

Alternatively, you can skip rerunning configure and just

cd to the src/ directory

edit Makefile to put the correct group in the MAIL_GROUP= definition

go to step 3)

-- 
Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan



From hansen at rc.org  Sun Apr 30 17:23:44 2006
From: hansen at rc.org (Allan Hansen)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 08:23:44 -0700
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>	<p06200717c079cbc1da10@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230919c079d2bd6bc9@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>
Message-ID: <p06230921c07a85c8623e@[10.0.1.4]>

Again, I was just trying to help a newbie user. And thank you, Dan, for clarifying
the misinformation about Mailman on OS X Server. I thought that I had made it clear
that the Mailman interfaces work just fine there and that as far as Mailman is 
concerned, there's no need for Apple support.

>	Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the 
>Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code 
>(with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard 
>Mailman web or CLI management interface.

This statement by Brad is simply hogwash.

Allan
-- 
 _________________________________________________________________
| Allan Hansen, Ph.D.                                             |
|    P.O. Box 2423, Cypress, CA 90630, U.S.A.                     |
|                                                                 |
| Work:                              Home:                        |
| Phone: +1-714/952-6015             +1-714/875-8870              |
| Fax:   +1-714/952-6746                                          |
| Email: allan.hansen at ugs.com        hansen at rc.org                |
| WWW:   http://www.ugs.com          http://www.rc.org/           |
|                                                                 |
|_Anything is possible with the right tools and right information_|


From brad at stop.mail-abuse.org  Sun Apr 30 22:33:45 2006
From: brad at stop.mail-abuse.org (Brad Knowles)
Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 15:33:45 -0500
Subject: [Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x
In-Reply-To: <p06230921c07a85c8623e@[10.0.1.4]>
References: <20060426032444.25758.qmail@web38006.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
	<p06230910c079a4688fd0@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200717c079cbc1da10@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230919c079d2bd6bc9@[10.0.1.4]>
	<p06200718c079e3f0851c@[192.168.1.65]>
	<p06230921c07a85c8623e@[10.0.1.4]>
Message-ID: <p0620071cc07acb88cd37@[192.168.1.65]>

At 8:23 AM -0700 2006-04-30, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  Again, I was just trying to help a newbie user. And thank you, Dan, 
>for clarifying
>  the misinformation about Mailman on OS X Server. I thought that I 
>had made it clear
>  that the Mailman interfaces work just fine there and that as far as 
>Mailman is
>  concerned, there's no need for Apple support.
>
>>	Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the
>>  Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code
>>  (with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard
>>  Mailman web or CLI management interface.
>
>  This statement by Brad is simply hogwash.

	I'm not personally acquainted with Mailman on MacOS X Server, so 
I had no information as to whether or not the standard Mailman web & 
CLI admin interfaces would be available.

	However, regardless of whether or not you can use the Mailman 
standard web or CLI admin interfaces, I'm pretty sure that Apple 
doesn't support this method.


	Everything else I have said regarding Mailman on MacOS X Server 
is still applicable, and comes from first-hand accounts by people who 
work at Apple and others who have tried using their customized 
versions of the software.

	You can provide your own alternative experience on this subject, 
but every single other person I have heard from so far have been 
universally negative -- especially including the people at Apple 
themselves, including programmers who are responsible for development 
on other aspects of MacOS X.


	Apple has earned a very bad reputation with regards to MacOS X 
Server, both with this project, and with other projects whose 
software they have misappropriated and tacked on their own custom 
management interface, and then proceeded to provide *zero* support to 
their paying customers -- including extremely large Universities with 
tens of thousands of installed clients and at least hundreds or 
thousands of installed servers.

	The result is that those paying customers come to us for support, 
but we're very limited in what we can do to help, because Apple has 
not shared with us their modifications.

	This is about the worst thing that any OS vendor can do to an 
open source project.  And Apple's done it to us in spades.  Apple's 
not the only offender here -- cPanel is another, while Plesk at least 
sticks fairly closely to the version of the code that we shipped 
years ago and you can drop in a more recent version if you know what 
you're doing.


	This is a really old argument.  You don't want to go down this road.

-- 
Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.