[Mailman-Users] error install MM on MAC OS x

Brad Knowles brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Sun Apr 30 22:33:45 CEST 2006

At 8:23 AM -0700 2006-04-30, Allan Hansen wrote:

>  Again, I was just trying to help a newbie user. And thank you, Dan, 
>for clarifying
>  the misinformation about Mailman on OS X Server. I thought that I 
>had made it clear
>  that the Mailman interfaces work just fine there and that as far as 
>Mailman is
>  concerned, there's no need for Apple support.
>>	Either you use the Apple custom management GUI with the
>>  Apple-modified versions of the old code, or you use the new code
>>  (with the new features and the security fixes) with the standard
>>  Mailman web or CLI management interface.
>  This statement by Brad is simply hogwash.

	I'm not personally acquainted with Mailman on MacOS X Server, so 
I had no information as to whether or not the standard Mailman web & 
CLI admin interfaces would be available.

	However, regardless of whether or not you can use the Mailman 
standard web or CLI admin interfaces, I'm pretty sure that Apple 
doesn't support this method.

	Everything else I have said regarding Mailman on MacOS X Server 
is still applicable, and comes from first-hand accounts by people who 
work at Apple and others who have tried using their customized 
versions of the software.

	You can provide your own alternative experience on this subject, 
but every single other person I have heard from so far have been 
universally negative -- especially including the people at Apple 
themselves, including programmers who are responsible for development 
on other aspects of MacOS X.

	Apple has earned a very bad reputation with regards to MacOS X 
Server, both with this project, and with other projects whose 
software they have misappropriated and tacked on their own custom 
management interface, and then proceeded to provide *zero* support to 
their paying customers -- including extremely large Universities with 
tens of thousands of installed clients and at least hundreds or 
thousands of installed servers.

	The result is that those paying customers come to us for support, 
but we're very limited in what we can do to help, because Apple has 
not shared with us their modifications.

	This is about the worst thing that any OS vendor can do to an 
open source project.  And Apple's done it to us in spades.  Apple's 
not the only offender here -- cPanel is another, while Plesk at least 
sticks fairly closely to the version of the code that we shipped 
years ago and you can drop in a more recent version if you know what 
you're doing.

	This is a really old argument.  You don't want to go down this road.

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.

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