[Mailman-Users] Problems sending to list

Patrick Bogen pdbogen at gmail.com
Mon Feb 13 22:32:07 CET 2006

I don't /think/ it's bounce notices. The sendmail logs don't seem to
reflect that.
Rather, I think this has to do with the fact that when the messages
are sent out, the 'To:' header still contains
announce at physics.tamu.edu even though it reports a different RCPT TO
in smtp?
I've set procmail to carbon copy anything that passes through (mailman
has its own procmail file on my config), and this seems to be what is
So, everything is right in:
(1) I send mail to announce
(2) Message hits sendmail
(3) matches aliases
(4) Goes to procmail
(5) Procmail matches on To: ...
(6) Sends to mailman
(7) Mailman sends to members
(8) Any members that aren't mailman lists are delivered
(9) Mailman lists, however, restart at step (2), but To: still looks
like announce at physics.tamu.edu, so they are discarded at step #7.

The key problem is that procmail can only see the message and its
headers, which don't seem to give an indication at this stage that the
message was sent to anything other than announce.. Sendmail knows,
because it's dispatching them to the proper alias.

There are a couple of possible patches to this (mucking with
environment variables at the same time I send to procmail, using a
seperate procmail config file for each list) but none of these are

Am I seeing the correct behaviour from procmail, that the To: is
maintained as the list address? Is it a privacy issue that the
addresses are kept out of the headers? Is there an easy way to change
this behaviour, or are there concerns with it that I'm not seeing?

I can always have procmail strip out extra headers that I don't want
after the fact.

On 2/12/06, Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net> wrote:
> Patrick Bogen wrote:
> >The various log entries are:
> >Post:
> >Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476) post to announce from
> >root at mail.physics.tamu.edu, size=3D1924,
> >message-id=3D<200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>,
> >success
> <snip>
> Just looking at one ... Successfully posted
> >
> >Corresponding in smtp:
> >Feb 09 11:25:52 2006 (20476)
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu> smtp for 13
> >recips, completed in 0.704 seconds
> Successfully delivered to the MTA with 13 recips.
> >And then a few seconds after each one in vette:
> >Feb 09 11:26:05 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
> >Feb 09 11:26:07 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
> >Feb 09 11:26:09 2006 (20474) Message discarded, msgid:
> ><200602091725.k19HPmje010926 at mail.physics.tamu.edu>
> Then for this message (I'm guessing) three bounces returned by the MTA,
> misdirected to the list and discarded as post from non-member.
> >It'll take me a bit longer to pull the applicable sendmail and
> >procmail logs. Nothing looks amiss in procmail, though; it matches on
> >^TO_announce at physics.tamu.edu and sends it along to the mailman
> >handler as it should.
> >
> >What I'd really like to see is a snapshot of the actual messages that
> >are being send to the smtp server.. I probably know enough python to
> >hack that in myself, though. I'll look at that on Tuesday.
> As a first try, set Privacy options...->Sender
> filters->forward_auto_discards to Yes, but this won't work unless the
> announce-owner address is deliverable, because that's where the
> forward is initially sent. See do_discard() in
> Mailman/Handlers/Moderate.py if you want to hack in a different
> address.
> You could also set generic_nonmember_action to Hold which should make
> the message available in the admindb interface.
> Note the above suggestins assume that the discarded messages are auto
> discards of bounce notices that are treated as non-member posts which
> may not be what's happening.
> You can also hack bulk_deliver() in Mailman/Handlers/SMTPDirect.py to
> log recips and msgtext.
> --
> Mark Sapiro <msapiro at value.net>       The highway is for gamblers,
> San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan

- Patrick Bogen

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