[Mailman-Users] Bounce issues with Yahoo

Brad Knowles brad at stop.mail-abuse.org
Wed Mar 1 23:55:12 CET 2006

At 4:04 PM -0600 2006-03-01, Patrick Bogen wrote:

>  Integrating spam detection into mailman is actually quite easy- once
>  your MTA is configured for it.

	That's one way to do it, yes.  However, the FAQ does detail other 
methods that can also be used, as well as MTA integration.

>                                  That is an MTA issue, not a mailman
>  issue.

	Don't blindly discount alternative methods just because you have 
a personal preference for a particular technique yourself.

	I personally believe that the MTA integration method is superior, 
but I accept that there are plenty of other people out there who 
might feel different -- and that's why the FAQ discusses multiple 

>>  Well, let's just say that I found the list to be pretty lame. You made
>>  the only constructive comment, thanks.

	Greg -- There were some lame comments, yes.  However, please 
don't tar all of us with the brush you've constructed based on the 
feedback of a small number of people who have responded so far.

	OTOH, there is a FAQ Wizard, and there are searchable archives. 
Before posting questions like this to the list, it would help 
everyone if you searched those before posting here.

>  And to be fair, I consider most of the other comments constructive; it
>  is often better/easier to fix a policy problem than to fix the way
>  that mailman works.

	Mailman can be difficult to fix, yes.  And sometimes it doesn't 
necessarily work as well as we would like.  But we go well out of our 
way to try to ensure that each admin can have Mailman work the way 
they want (more or less), even though some admins will choose one way 
and other admins will choose another.

	This is why we have a configuration file.

>                       In all fairness, your comment about your years of
>  experience was the first rude thing.

	Given the circumstances, I didn't see it as being overly rude. 
He was dealing with the rude responses that he was getting, and 
trying to get people to focus on answering the question that was 

	As someone with over twenty years experience with Unix and over 
fifteen years of experience as a professional Unix systems 
administrator, specializing in Internet e-mail (among other things), 
and having been the first Internet Mail Operations person hired by 
AOL and responsible for technical leadership in growing their 
Internet Mail Operations group by over a factor of 1000 in terms of 
hardware and load handled, I can understand that.

>                                        It doesn't really do to ask for
>  help and then beat us over the head with your qualifications because
>  you don't want to hear the particular suggestions.

	True enough, but he's not the only person guilty of doing so.  In 
his defense, he was being attacked, and although he could have chosen 
better ways of handling that, the method he did choose wasn't that 
excessively bad.

>                                                      When you ask for
>  help, you are throwing yourselves on our mercy, as it were- any pride
>  you may have should be long out the window.

	True enough.  We would all be better served by remembering this.

Brad Knowles, <brad at stop.mail-abuse.org>

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little
temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

     -- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
     Assembly to the Governor, November 11, 1755

  LOPSA member since December 2005.  See <http://www.lopsa.org/>.

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