[Mailman-Users] Bounce issues with Yahoo
haroldp at sierraweb.com
Fri Mar 3 20:08:29 CET 2006
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> I've been specializing in Internet e-mail for over a decade, I was
> the comp.mail.sendmail FAQ maintainer for years, I was heavily
> involved in the postfix community from back when it was still being
> called VMailer, and I have yet to run into any MTAs that can do this.
My bad. I failed to check the archives:
...for your resume first, and was suggesting a solution I thought was
both useful, and more...correct. I did meet Eric Allman once. He
> Please provide evidence for your claims.
You will have to forgive me because I have only been on the `net for
a minute or two, and never worked for AOL, but don't you sort of
water this down below and - at the perilous risk of putting words in
your mouth - agree that this is entirely possible, but, maybe a
>>> The policy you are proposing is null and void, because the
>>> in question is not physically capable of acting in the manner
>>> you suggest.
>> You have the sender and the recipient right at the beginning of the
>> SMTP transaction. Check a map to see if it's deliverable. Mailman
>> already maintains such a map. You just need some glue.
> That would be nice, but Mailman does not, in fact, maintain such a
> map. It has a procedure that it goes through to determine if the
> user is a subscriber or should otherwise be moderated or the
> message should be rejected, but there is no easy "map" for this
Ok, maybe it's not an MTA-ready map, but Mailman looks up the sender
in it's subscriber database when it gets a message to a members only
list, right? That code exists? And could be adapted, in a fairly
straight-forward manor to do exactly the same thing a few seconds
earlier, before your message hits disk?
Probably my misunderstanding.
>> Surely other MTAs give admins a way to make decisions during SMTP
>> as well?
> Sure, anyone can write an SMTP or LMTP-like engine that internally
> goes through the processes that the MLM would normally go through,
> and be able to provide that information to the MTA through a proxy
> service, but the MTA would also have to be configured to hold the
> sender open while checking the proxy -- again, most MTAs are not
> configured to do this, and for lots of good reasons the MTA authors
> suggest in the strongest possible terms that you not make the
> mistake of configuring their software in this way.
Seems like you are imagining a lot of unnecessary plumbing.
When you have the sender address during SMTP
If it's going to a known Mailman list address
If the sender address can't be found in the list subscriber db
Say no thanks...(or say please try again later)
Mailman will do all of this a second or two later anyway, right?
>> I think the right solution is to reject junk, instead of accept-
>> I think accept-and-bounce is a blight on the internet, that
>> lowers the
>> quality and reputation of email. I think it is a waste of
> Fine. Then write the Python code to do all the magic work and
> contribute that back to the Mailman community, and get that
> incorporated into an upcoming release.
Well you know of course I was trying to goad you into writing it. I
don't know Python, or have a problem with backscatter. :)
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